From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 01:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12664 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12652; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) id KAA01592; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199808160817.KAA01592@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-Reply-To: <199808160609.AAA02488@narnia.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Aug 16, 98 00:09:29 am" To: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:17:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Justin T. Gibbs who wrote: > In article <199808151902.VAA08482@sos.freebsd.dk> you wrote: > > > >> For what it's worth, I don't see much value in treating ATA disks as > >> though they were SCSI disks; the overhead in translation is probably > >> too high. On the other hand, I'm less sure about things that use the > >> ATAPI packet protocol. > > > > The ATA driver with lowlevel ATAPI support _must_ be implemented in > > all cases, the difference is if the ATAPI device are registered under > > CAM (scsi) or if there are nataive ATAPI drivers instead. > > I don't understand why everyone has this misconception. Then you also dont understand what I'm writing :) What I said is that the lowlevel support (ie that code thats speaks directly to the controller/drive) has to be implemented no matter what layer I put on top. Now I allready have a layer that talks ATAPI (ie the old ATAPI system), and I still use that for now in the code put up for testing (and that has NONE of the new LL code in it, its just burner support). If one wants CAM (and maybe we all will when it gets there), its a matter of exchanging the interface to the top layer which is pretty easy when you have all the LL stuff in place. So when do we get CAM, when do we get documentation for it ?? When thats in place I'll look at using it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 11:47:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06114 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.140.2]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA308 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:46:08 +0200 Message-ID: <35D7292D.7FBBA95@pipeline.ch> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:47:09 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sendfile() API? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm currently evaluating the Zeus 3.1 Webserver (it finally available for FreeBSD: www.zeus.co.uk) and in the tuning document they talk about an sendfile() API which is currently only supportet on HP/UX 11.00: http://support.zeus.co.uk/tuning.htm I'm now wondering what exactly that is and if someone has more details or documents on that. They state sendfile() gives excellent Webserver performace, isn't that somthing for FreeBSD? TIA -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 12:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11939 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:37:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11931 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z88aW-0006rL-00; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:35:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <35D7292D.7FBBA95@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Andre Oppermann wrote: > I'm currently evaluating the Zeus 3.1 Webserver (it finally available > for FreeBSD: www.zeus.co.uk) and in the tuning document they talk about > an sendfile() API which is currently only supportet on HP/UX 11.00: > http://support.zeus.co.uk/tuning.htm > > I'm now wondering what exactly that is and if someone has more details > or documents on that. It is a system call that allows you to pass in a file descriptor and a network socket and some other stuff. The kernel can then figure out how it can best shove the file to the network without having to copy into userspace. It still may or may not have to copy in the kernel, depending on implementation. There is a man page for the HPUX sendfile() at: http://docs.hp.com:80/dynaweb/hpux11/hpuxen1a/rvl3en1a/@Generic__BookTextView/59894;td=3 Note that the HPUX implementation does have some problems with the semantics, you really need an async sendfile() to do things right without wasting threads, you really need to be able to pass multiple headers and trailers in to do things right, etc. > > They state sendfile() gives excellent Webserver performace, isn't that > somthing for FreeBSD? sendfile() gives pretty good performance when combined with a file descriptor cache (ie. the web server doesn't do anything silly like cache data, it just keeps a bunch of descriptors open to sendfile() on), but the implementation has to be right and it is really an interm solution. The more general concept is any descriptor to any descriptor, and the future for web server performance could involve a small, in-kernel HTTP engine (eg. IBM's AFPA) backed by a webserver that handles cache population and any request that requires thinking plus if HTTP-NG becomes a reality (which it may well not since the W3C is shoving all sorts of "distributed object" crap into it; MUX may end up being deployed seperately though...), multiplexing multiple transfers over a single socket with MUX will mean that you can't use a sendfile() that usefully anyway. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 13:14:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17765 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12877; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdk12875; Sun Aug 16 20:08:16 1998 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <35D7292D.7FBBA95@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been having a quick discussion with linus re: the sendfile() API that he is puting in linux.. I will be implementing an identical API on freebsd for SAMBA to use. warning: he has decided to not use an API identical to HPUX but it will give similar (expanded) functionality. julian On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Andre Oppermann wrote: > I'm currently evaluating the Zeus 3.1 Webserver (it finally available > for FreeBSD: www.zeus.co.uk) and in the tuning document they talk about > an sendfile() API which is currently only supportet on HP/UX 11.00: > http://support.zeus.co.uk/tuning.htm > > I'm now wondering what exactly that is and if someone has more details > or documents on that. > > They state sendfile() gives excellent Webserver performace, isn't that > somthing for FreeBSD? > > TIA > -- > Andre > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 14:01:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.ray.com (gatekeeper.ray.com [138.125.162.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23418 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com) Received: (mailer@localhost) by gatekeeper.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15890 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:00:45 -0400 Received: from bt340707.res.ray.com/138.125.142.35() by gatekeeper.ray.com id sma.903301196.005008; Sun Aug 16 16:59:56 1998 Received: from bt340707.res.ray.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bt340707.res.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00546 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:52:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com) Message-ID: <35D75484.FC6F41B5@bt340707.res.ray.com> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:52:04 -0500 From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers Subject: 2.2.7R and /sys/i386/include/conf.h References: <35D7292D.7FBBA95@pipeline.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This file is aparently still needed by "config" to build a kernel but is not present in a source tree created by "cvs co -rRELENG_2_2_7_RELEASE src" looking at the version labeling in CVSROOT from one of the 2.2.7 release disks shows that it was not tagged for 2.2.6 either. I wonder how this happened.... -- Greg Moncreaff, Senior Software Engineer, CNS/ATN Raytheon Systems Company, Mailstop 2.2.2507 Raytheon 1001 Boston Post Road East, Marlboro, MA 01752 USA 508.490.2048, 508.490.2086 fax -- Disclaimer: "this is my personal opinion and not that of my employer" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 14:11:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com [199.94.215.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24603 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com) Received: from gatekeeper.ray.com (gatekeeper.ray.com [138.125.162.1]) by cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26561 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (mailer@localhost) by gatekeeper.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16076 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:06:01 -0400 Received: from bt340707.res.ray.com/138.125.142.35() by gatekeeper.ray.com id sma.903301506.005244; Sun Aug 16 17:05:06 1998 Received: from bt340707.res.ray.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bt340707.res.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00554 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:57:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com) Message-ID: <35D755BA.28E3C851@bt340707.res.ray.com> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:57:14 -0500 From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers Subject: 2.2.7R and /sys/kern/kern_opt.c [another missing tag] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This file is looked for when doing a "make depend" to build a kernel but is not presently tagged for 2.2.7R -- Greg Moncreaff, Senior Software Engineer, CNS/ATN Raytheon Systems Company, Mailstop 2.2.2507 Raytheon 1001 Boston Post Road East, Marlboro, MA 01752 USA 508.490.2048, 508.490.2086 fax -- Disclaimer: "this is my personal opinion and not that of my employer" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 14:18:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25603 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26946; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:47:09 +0200." <35D7292D.7FBBA95@pipeline.ch> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:16:24 -0700 Message-ID: <26941.903302184@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > They state sendfile() gives excellent Webserver performace, isn't that > somthing for FreeBSD? Predicated on two things, both of which I raised at the Apache core developers meeting recently: 1. A reasonable (e.g. not HP/UX's) API is established by those who're going to use it so that we know just what precisely it is we're supposed to implement. 2. Some sort of benchmark suite is developed to show when and where this *actually helps* so that we can justify the addition of sendfile() to FreeBSD (or any other OS, for that matter). I'm still waiting for either of those things to happen, and until then it's a reasonable assumption that demand is just not that significant yet. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 15:04:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28559; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20682; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808162203.QAA20682@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:17:44 +0200." <199808160817.KAA01592@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:57:48 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA28560 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >So when do we get CAM, when do we get documentation for it ?? If you want access to the development repository, I can give it to you right now. If you're talking about getting the code into the tree, we're pretty much down to the aha1542, DPT, and worm driver. My guess is another month. For documentation, you can get the general idea for how the framework works by looking at http://www.FreeBSD.org/~gibbs/cam.html. This is the beginnings of an overview paper on FreeBSD-CAM. I don't think the conversion from SGML to HTML came out too nice, but I don't have any time right now to fix that... You can also retrieve the ANSI CAM specs from: ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/x3t10/drafts/cam/ ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/x3t10/drafts/cam3/ "Man-page" type documentation will have to wait a bit longer since my time is already over-committed for getting CAM-SCSI ready for 3.0 and completing aic7xxx target mode support. My goal is to complete the documentation before years end, but as it stands now, there is already more documentation for FreeBSD CAM than either the old SCSI layer or the ATAPI code. 8-) -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 15:09:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29034 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29026 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01886; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" cc: hackers Subject: Re: 2.2.7R and /sys/i386/include/conf.h In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:52:04 CDT." <35D75484.FC6F41B5@bt340707.res.ray.com> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:06:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1882.903305208@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This file is aparently still needed by "config" to build a kernel but is > not > present in a source tree created by "cvs co -rRELENG_2_2_7_RELEASE src" > > looking at the version labeling in CVSROOT from one of the 2.2.7 release > disks shows > that it was not tagged for 2.2.6 either. > > I wonder how this happened.... You must have a bogus local CVS repo, that's all I can think of. The tags in question are all here, and I built the 2.2.7 release itself by checking out a src tree with the RELENG_2_2_7_RELEASE tag - if there had been anything missing or untagged, the release build would have failed utterly at that time. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 15:46:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02236 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:46:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02224 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40345>; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:45:21 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:45:34 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Aug17.084521est.40345@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:52:29 +0200, Andre Oppermann wrote: >TAI64 looks good (quotes from DJB's definition): > > "TAI stands for Temps Atomique International, the current international > real time standard." Switching from UTC to TAI opens up a whole new can of worms. In particular: 1) AFAIK, civil time is derived from UTC. 2) It is not possible to accurately convert a future time between TAI and UTC (because the offset between TAI and UTC depends on the _measured_ decay in the Earth's rotation). That said, when we do move to a 64-bit time_t, TAI64 would be a reasonable choice. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 17:00:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09477 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hobby.digiware.nl (hobby.digiware.nl [194.151.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09472 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjw@hobby.digiware.nl) Received: (from wjw@localhost) by hobby.digiware.nl (8.8.8/8.8.5) id CAA00575 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:03:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Willem Jan Withagen Message-Id: <199808170003.CAA00575@hobby.digiware.nl> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Getting a new syscall to work Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've followed most all of the receipe which was given by Eric A. Davis to add a systemcall. But now I'm all out of idea's: /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "___nsysctl" called from testnsysctl:/usr/lib/libc.so.3.2 at 0x200857d8 (I bumped the minor number.) I've looked in the running kernel with nm: f0124c4c T ___nsysctl f01241a0 F nsysctl.o So as far I know, things should be working. But they don't, so can somebody give me a new pointer --WjW To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 17:23:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12377 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA19406; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:30:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199808170030.KAA19406@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Getting a new syscall to work In-Reply-To: <199808170003.CAA00575@hobby.digiware.nl> from Willem Jan Withagen at "Aug 17, 98 02:03:54 am" To: wjw@hobby.digiware.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:30:48 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Willem Jan Withagen wrote: > I've followed most all of the receipe which was given by Eric A. Davis > to add a systemcall. But now I'm all out of idea's: > > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "___nsysctl" called from testnsysctl:/usr/lib/libc.so.3.2 at 0x200857d8 > (I bumped the minor number.) > > I've looked in the running kernel with nm: > f0124c4c T ___nsysctl > f01241a0 F nsysctl.o > > So as far I know, things should be working. > But they don't, so can somebody give me a new pointer Is this -current or -something else? If it is -current, then something is broken because your new libc should be installed in /usr/lib/aout. If it is not a -current system, you need to add the syscall to src/lib/libc/sys/Makefile.inc, then do a cleandir before rebuilding and installing libc. Ensure that your syscall appears in the installed syscall.h before building libc. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 17:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14094 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14084; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id TAA18153; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:31:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id TAA03807; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:31:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980816193135.14413@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:31:35 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. References: <199808160817.KAA01592@sos.freebsd.dk> <199808162203.QAA20682@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199808162203.QAA20682@pluto.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Sun, Aug 16, 1998 at 03:57:48PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Aug 16, 1998 at 03:57:48PM -0600, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > >So when do we get CAM, when do we get documentation for it ?? > > If you want access to the development repository, I can give it to > you right now. If you're talking about getting the code into the > tree, we're pretty much down to the aha1542, DPT, and worm driver. > My guess is another month. We are talking about REPLACING the old SCSI code with this, right? Not a merge where you can select either with a compile-time option in the kernel? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 18:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20356; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28434; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808170128.TAA28434@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Karl Denninger cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:31:35 CDT." <19980816193135.14413@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:22:52 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >We are talking about REPLACING the old SCSI code with this, right? That has always been the plan. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 19:53:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (nighthawk.iti.gov.sg [192.122.131.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29946 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joerg@krdl.org.sg) Received: (from mailer@localhost) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA27250; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:03:31 +0800 Received: from mailhub.iti.gov.sg(192.122.132.132) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma027246; Mon Aug 17 11:03:03 1998 Received: (from joerg@localhost) by iti.gov.sg (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA12074; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:42:45 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980817104245.20871@krdl.org.sg> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:42:45 +0800 From: Joerg Micheel To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: Greg Lehey , Matthew Hunt , Ivan Brawley , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t References: <199808131721.KAA00864@antipodes.cdrom.com> <199808140040.KAA14156@mad.ct> <19980814000605.A25012@astro.psu.edu> <19980814135919.U1921@freebie.lemis.com> <19980814114525.B4001@zappo> <19980815120445.C21662@lemis.com> <19980815110445.A2355@zappo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980815110445.A2355@zappo>; from Tim Vanderhoek on Sat, Aug 15, 1998 at 11:04:45AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Aug 15, 1998 at 11:04:45AM -0400, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Sat, Aug 15, 1998 at 12:04:45PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > One problem UNIX has is that there is no standardized format for > > representing times. There is no sensible reason to use one format for > > representing system times, one (inconvenient) format for representing > > times more accurately (down to only 1 microsecond, when it could have > > been down to a nanosecond), and one format broken down into > > representations of the individual units of time. None are of any use > > when I want to know "How many seconds has it been since my grandfather > > was born?". time_t *will* answer the question "How many seconds has > > Why the hell would you want to know how many seconds it has been since > your grandfather was born? Your sense of humor is astonishing. I don't think it makes much sense to be able to express several billion years ahead (or back), while something in the order of centuries back might make sense for some applications (like statistics on mankind). What bothers much more is resolution. Many things of interest now happen in fractions of milliseconds. Look at the clock frequency of computers or the clock of networks (SONET, etc). Nanosecond granularity is a must, if you'd like to accurately describe an interval it takes to compute or transmit a certain piece of information. Please note that granularity does not mean accuracy (it has never been). The fact that this is silly to compute how long it has taken since your grandfather has been born doesn't invalidate the statement. Quite the opposite is true. As Greg mentioned, it makes you nervous to have all these different "time" facilities for different "purposes" that do no good for the programmer and users. A single *handle* that works in all cases is cool, because it prevents us from having to rewrite applications after some years, reconvert databases or else (which is very costly, as we know from the Y2K problem). We have addressed this very issue in our network test toolkit. For us, it is important to have a signed 64 bit integer to be able to do simple +/- computations on todays computers in a very efficient way, we use 'long long' in C. We have settled for nanosecond granularity (not necessary accuracy, that depends on the hardware being used). This approach keeps us going for about 31 years, more than required for any long-term measurement. Of course, for UNIX, this period needs to be extended to something reasonable, so granularity will suffer. Still, 10 or 100 ns might be perfect for most applications. Regards, Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: SingAREN Technology Center Phone: +65 7705577 Kent Ridge Digital Labs (pron: curdle) Fax: +65 7795966 11 Science Park Road Pager: +65 96016020 Singapore Science Park II Plan: Troubleshooting ATM 117685 Singapore Networks and Applications To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 20:58:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08091 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA03885; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:56:13 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA16257; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:56:51 +0800 Message-Id: <199808170356.LAA16257@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:08:12 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:56:50 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There was a discussion a while ago about how sendfile (as implemented on NT) was a BadThing(tm). One guy came up with what can only be described as an I/O interpreter, where the kernel provides a facility such that you can load up a description of what you want done with the data. His first name was Chuck, and he came up with quite an interesting thesis, implementing his code under NetBSD. The problem is that sendfile is unsufficiently general, and probably wont cope with things like network type changes, et cetera. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 22:34:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:34:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19727 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA21554; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdb21551; Mon Aug 17 05:26:40 1998 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <199808170356.LAA16257@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG any closerr references on this would be greatly appreciated.. On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > There was a discussion a while ago about how sendfile (as implemented on NT) > was a BadThing(tm). One guy came up with what can only be described as an I/O > interpreter, where the kernel provides a facility such that you can load up a > description of what you want done with the data. His first name was Chuck, and > he came up with quite an interesting thesis, implementing his code under > NetBSD. The problem is that sendfile is unsufficiently general, and probably > wont cope with things like network type changes, et cetera. > > > Stephen > -- > The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. > > "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce > the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know > this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 22:56:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:56:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21890 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28281; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028271; Sun Aug 16 22:55:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20672; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:55:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808170555.WAA20672@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: sendfile() API? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:55:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: oppermann@pipeline.ch, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 16, 98 01:08:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been having a quick discussion with linus re: the sendfile() > API that he is puting in linux.. > I will be implementing an identical API on freebsd for > SAMBA to use. > warning: he has decided to not use an API identical to HPUX > but it will give similar (expanded) functionality. My main problem with sendfile(), as it is generally used, I presume, being ripped directly from the sample POP3 implementation on the NT SDK CDROM, is data interpretation. In order to make sendfile useful, it is necessary to store the file with CRLF line delimiters and the "." character pre-bytestuffed if it occors on a line by itself. Like the one that follows: . The problem here is that no processing of file contents is allowed. This greatly limits the utility of such an interface. The any-fd-to-any-fd suggestion is actually rather bogus; it is only useful on cached data; that is, recieving or sending a file would be useful, but going from one network connection to another would be merely an extra two copies, when a sperate optimization to turn inbound mbuf's into outbound mbuf's would save all but the copies to and from controller memory. Storing files with wire format contents is OK, even for mail files, until you try to use bot a POP3 and an IMAP and a local application client on the mail file. Then it breaks down horrendously. I would also hate to have to edit CRLF into all of my WWW pages, which would be required. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 22:58:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22294 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:58:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22285 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:58:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18770; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:56:50 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA16819; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:57:28 +0800 Message-Id: <199808170557.NAA16819@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:26:36 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:57:28 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > any closerr references on this would be greatly appreciated.. > > His name was Chuck Cranor - can't think of anything else at this point. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 23:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22538 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02064; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:59:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd002054; Sun Aug 16 22:59:34 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20804; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:59:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808170559.WAA20804@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Getting a new syscall to work To: wjw@hobby.digiware.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:59:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808170003.CAA00575@hobby.digiware.nl> from "Willem Jan Withagen" at Aug 17, 98 02:03:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've followed most all of the receipe which was given by Eric A. Davis > to add a systemcall. But now I'm all out of idea's: > > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "___nsysctl" called from testnsysctl:/usr/lib/libc.so.3.2 at 0x200857d8 > (I bumped the minor number.) > > I've looked in the running kernel with nm: > f0124c4c T ___nsysctl > f01241a0 F nsysctl.o > > So as far I know, things should be working. > But they don't, so can somebody give me a new pointer You must put it in the libc as well as in the kernel. If you know the number, a good developement stopgap would be to call syscall(2) with the number as the first argument, the calls first argument as the second argument, etc.. The LKM code intentionally reports the system call number back after the load so that you can put it in a file and read this from a program that needs to call the new system call, but doesn't know where the call lives for sure. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 23:03:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23039 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:03:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00487; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd000465; Sun Aug 16 23:02:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA20899; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:02:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808170602.XAA20899@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t To: joerg@krdl.org.sg (Joerg Micheel) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:02:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, grog@lemis.com, mph@pobox.com, brawley@camtech.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980817104245.20871@krdl.org.sg> from "Joerg Micheel" at Aug 17, 98 10:42:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What bothers much more is resolution. Many things of interest now happen > in fractions of milliseconds. Look at the clock frequency of computers > or the clock of networks (SONET, etc). Nanosecond granularity is a must, > if you'd like to accurately describe an interval it takes to compute or > transmit a certain piece of information. Please note that granularity > does not mean accuracy (it has never been). Right. For example, all resoloution better than a second is arrived at through interpolation, and has been for a long time. SunOS 4 interpolated to a resoloution of 4uS (based on the time it took to make a system call vs. the speed of the hardware at the time). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 23:33:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:33:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA26081 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z8Ipf-0001h2-00; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:31:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <199808170555.WAA20672@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > I would also hate to have to edit CRLF into all of my WWW pages, > which would be required. 8-(. You seem to think that web servers do line ending transformation while they are sending. They (speaking in general for every server I have used) don't. If you have to perform arbitrary data translations, I am doubtful that there is much room for an improved API. However, in a lot of cases you don't. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 16 23:41:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26992; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) id IAA18998; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:39:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199808170639.IAA18998@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-Reply-To: <199808162203.QAA20682@pluto.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Aug 16, 98 03:57:48 pm" To: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:39:41 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Justin T. Gibbs who wrote: > >So when do we get CAM, when do we get documentation for it ?? > > If you want access to the development repository, I can give it to > you right now. If you're talking about getting the code into the > tree, we're pretty much down to the aha1542, DPT, and worm driver. > My guess is another month. Dont waste your time on the worm driver, unless you plan to upgrade it significantly. It does only support a couble of old drives that are not made anymore. The ATAPI burners are easier, they are all (well most) MMC3 compatible, so you can use the same driver for them all. (You could tweak my driver into a SCSI subsystem I guess) And yes you need support for at least the 1542 & clones before we can put CAM into the kernel for good. > For documentation, you can get the general idea for how the framework > works by looking at http://www.FreeBSD.org/~gibbs/cam.html. This is > the beginnings of an overview paper on FreeBSD-CAM. I don't think > the conversion from SGML to HTML came out too nice, but I don't have > any time right now to fix that... OK, my time is limitted too, so I'll concentrate on what I'm currently doing, then when we have CAM established and working, I'll look at it again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 00:48:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03158 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA03148 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z8JzR-00020v-00; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:46:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:46:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <199808170557.NAA16819@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > any closerr references on this would be greatly appreciated.. > > > > > > His name was Chuck Cranor - can't think of anything else at this point. http://www.ccrc.wustl.edu/pub/chuck/ Don't see anything there that really deals with this though. sendfile() certainly isn't a final answer to anything, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful. Larry McVoy's (formerly of SGI) spice stuff (ftp://ftp.bitmover.com/pub/splice.ps.gz) is also interesting. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 00:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03704 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:56:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03692 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27338; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:55:28 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA14842; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:55:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980817095522.53741@follo.net> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:55:22 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Brian Beattie , Simon Shapiro Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Do we have a Y2K problem after all? (was 64-bit time_t) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Beattie on Sat, Aug 15, 1998 at 04:00:00PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Aug 15, 1998 at 04:00:00PM -0700, Brian Beattie wrote: > On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > > On 15-Aug-98 Brian Beattie wrote: > > > On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > > >> Yup, we have... > > >> > > >> Create a file with date of 2017, theen ls -al it. > > ... > > > > Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks ok to me... > > > > Good news! You are right and I am wrong. I have a witness that, on > > current, I was right a week or two ago. > > So what was it you were seeing? Problems in ls -l that seemed to indicate that there was being concat'ed 19 somewhere instead of printing the correct century. However, this was on a single file, and we didn't do any more experimentation at that point. I'm planning to try to reproduce the condition, and see what kind of bug struck there. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 01:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04331 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA17462; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:04:14 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:04:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: support@yard.de Subject: yard/freebsd (network problem) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I still have the yard/freebsd problem every program I written with yard/cli worked fine on linux but failed on FreeBSD On FreeBSD, there is a kind of 1 second delay between the sql statments. the problem is solved but setting net.inet.tcp.ack_delayed=1 Yard is using normal read/write to talk to the server. Is there any flag to set with setsockopt/fcntl... to get a fast delivry of small packets ? we tried TCP_NODELAY last week but without any result. Thanks for your help, -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 01:46:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08123 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:46:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04099; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:44:12 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA17484; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:44:51 +0800 Message-Id: <199808170844.QAA17484@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Marc Slemko cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:46:05 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:44:51 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > > > any closerr references on this would be greatly appreciated.. > > > > > > > > > > His name was Chuck Cranor - can't think of anything else at this point. > > http://www.ccrc.wustl.edu/pub/chuck/ > > Don't see anything there that really deals with this though. > Yup, what triggered that recollection was a discussion that sendfile was too specific, and we needed a far more generalisable interfaces for these sorts of I/O routing requirements. The spectre of multiple warty special-purpose system calls scares me. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 03:32:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 03:32:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18124 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 03:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA16888; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 03:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808171031.DAA16888@implode.root.com> To: Didier Derny cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: yard/freebsd (network problem) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:04:14 +0200." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 03:31:04 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I still have the yard/freebsd problem >every program I written with yard/cli worked >fine on linux but failed on FreeBSD > >On FreeBSD, there is a kind of 1 second delay between >the sql statments. > >the problem is solved but setting net.inet.tcp.ack_delayed=1 You must mean 0, right? ack_delayed=1 is the default. >Yard is using normal read/write to talk to the server. > >Is there any flag to set with setsockopt/fcntl... to >get a fast delivry of small packets ? > >we tried TCP_NODELAY last week but without any result. TCP_NODELAY is the correct sockopt and it does work when done correctly. If it didn't give you the proper behavior, then you may wish to verify that you are doing it on the correct socket and that you are calling setsockopt correctly. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 04:34:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 04:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sequoia.lituus.fr ([193.252.205.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25358 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 04:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@smtp.wanadoo.fr) Received: (from root@localhost) by sequoia.lituus.fr (8.9.1/8.8.8) id NAA00751; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:29:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199808171129.NAA00751@sequoia.lituus.fr> From: Stephane Legrand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Do we have a Y2K problem after all? (was 64-bit time_t) In-Reply-To: <19980817095522.53741@follo.net> References: <19980817095522.53741@follo.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA25359 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund writes: > > Problems in ls -l that seemed to indicate that there was being > concat'ed 19 somewhere instead of printing the correct century. > > However, this was on a single file, and we didn't do any more > experimentation at that point. I'm planning to try to reproduce the > condition, and see what kind of bug struck there. > I can see a similar bug with TkDesk 1.0 (/usr/ports/x11/tkdesk). A "ls -la" shows the good date (2 fév 2017) but TkDesk shows "19117" for the year (the day and the month are correct). Could it be a Tcl 7.6/Tk 4.2 bug ? Stephane Legrand. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 04:57:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA27850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 04:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA27824 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 04:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA11751; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:56:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:56:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t In-Reply-To: <199808141756.LAA24900@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:41 AM 8/14/98 +0000, Mike Smith wrote: > > >C is not "unsafe", it is "not-safe", meaning that you're responsible for > >your own security. In this it is no less "safe" than any other > >language as you are a fool if you take the "safety" of any other > >language on trust. > > Gee, by this reasoning a car without seat belts, a horn, or bumpers is > is really no less "safe" than any other car. After all, you're a fool if > you trust your car to be safe. > > I guess I'll remove that pesky blade guard from my circular saw, too. > After all, doing that doesn't make the saw any less safe. > > NOT. I don't care how many times you make this analogy, it still doesn't work. You're not the consumer, you're the designer/implementer. It's your job to put the seatbelts, bumpers, airbags, etc. in your code. You have the raw materials and the assembly plant. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 05:00:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28415 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28409 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id GAA21209; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808171200.GAA21209@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.44 (Beta) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:59:59 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199808141756.LAA24900@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:56 AM 8/17/98 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: >I don't care how many times you make this analogy, it still doesn't work. >You're not the consumer, you're the designer/implementer. It's your job >to put the seatbelts, bumpers, airbags, etc. in your code. You have the >raw materials and the assembly plant. Nope, we're talking about safety measures in the language and compiler. Of which we are consumers, unless we choose to reinvent both (which generally is not the project at hand). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 05:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:18:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29888 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA26051 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:18:01 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:18:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is the code added by Yard to the client/server to force TCP_NODELAY in the application. Contrarily to my awful hack in the kernel we saw no improvement with this modification. If it is the correct sequence do you have any idea on why it does not seem to be working ? If it is not the right sequence what should I do ? Is setsockop called at the right place ? Is there anything to do before ? Thanks for your help. -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- This is the code sequence of the client: =============================== if (connect(s, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, sizeof(sin)) < 0) return(ECONNECT); if ((sopt = getenv("YARDTCPNODELAY"))) { int flag = 1; setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY,(char*)&flag,sizeof(int)) ; } =============================== and this is the server: =============================== if ((s = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,0)) < 0) { fprintf(stderr,"server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); netlog("server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); exit(1); } if ((sopt = getenv("YARDTCPNODELAY"))) { int flag = 1; printf("Using socket option TCP_NODELAY to %d\n",flag); if (setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY,(char*)&flag,sizeof(i nt)) < 0) { fprintf(stderr,"server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\ n",errno); netlog("server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\n",errno ); } } =============================== Regards Thomas Schonhoven -- ///!! ///!! //!! ////////////!! ///////////!! ///!! ///!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! //////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!////!! ///////////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! //////////!! ///!! ///!! //////!! ///!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! //////////////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! ////!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///////////!! YARD Software GmbH YARD Software Ltd. Wikingerstr. 18 - 20 Wikingerstr. 18 - 20 51107 Koeln 51107 Cologne Tel.: +4922198664-0 FAX.: +4922198664-99 E-Mail: support@yard.de FTP : ftp.yard.de WWW : http://www.yard.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 05:21:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA00371 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 05:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id HLBQEFSJ; Mon, 17 Aug 98 12:21:09 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980817141851.00a51710@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:18:51 +0200 To: Brett Glass From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jamie@itribe.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808171200.GAA21209@lariat.lariat.org> References: <199808141756.LAA24900@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Nope, we're talking about safety measures in the language and compiler. Of >which we are consumers, unless we choose to reinvent both (which generally >is not the project at hand). Regardless of the claimed secureness of a language, the designer/programmer of a product should always take it upon himself to add an extra layer of it by making sure his code doesn't have any potential flaws. I agree with what was said earlier, taking a compiler on trust is a bad move. Of course, you should get a car with an airbag, but that's no excuse to drive too fast. Besides which, the lack of such measures in C / C++ empowers the programmer to a great extent. Heuristics have not yet progressed far enough to second- guess a programmer as well as he himself can; when such is the case, we'll all be outdated. (with the exception of heuristics programmers, of course.) --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 06:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07842 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07837 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA19588; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808171348.GAA19588@implode.root.com> To: Didier Derny cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:18:01 +0200." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:48:03 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >and this is the server: > >=============================== > > if ((s = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,0)) < 0) > { > fprintf(stderr,"server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); > netlog("server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); > exit(1); > } > > if ((sopt = getenv("YARDTCPNODELAY"))) > { > int flag = 1; > > printf("Using socket option TCP_NODELAY to %d\n",flag); > if (setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY,(char*)&flag,sizeof(i >nt)) < 0) > { > fprintf(stderr,"server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\ >n",errno); > netlog("server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\n",errno >); > } > } For the server, "s" above appears to be the unconnected (listen) socket. The TCP_NODELAY option is not propagated across to accept()ed sockets, so you must do the setsockopt on those, not on the listen socket. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 06:52:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:52:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from offline.dct.com (offline.dct.com [204.29.185.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08351 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markm@offline.dct.com) Received: (from markm@localhost) by offline.dct.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16093 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:52:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Message-Id: <199808171352.IAA16093@offline.dct.com> Subject: Re: Do we have a Y2K problem after all? (was 64-bit time_t) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:52:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forwarded message: > > > > Problems in ls -l that seemed to indicate that there was being > > concat'ed 19 somewhere instead of printing the correct century. > > > > However, this was on a single file, and we didn't do any more > > experimentation at that point. I'm planning to try to reproduce the > > condition, and see what kind of bug struck there. > > > > I can see a similar bug with TkDesk 1.0 (/usr/ports/x11/tkdesk). > > A "ls -la" shows the good date (2 fév 2017) but TkDesk shows "19117" > for the year (the day and the month are correct). Could it be a Tcl > 7.6/Tk 4.2 bug ? > > Stephane Legrand. More than likely it is a bug in TkDesk itself. I could be wrong, however... -- Mark Maurer markm@dct.com mwmaurer@mtu.edu Programmer, Digital Magic Interactive http://www.dminteractive.com Senior, Michigan Technological University Houghton, MI -- Views do not represent those of my employer or school To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 08:35:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15621 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (kaleb@teapot.ics.com [140.186.40.160]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA07889 Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35D84D71.BBA2EEDC@ics.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:34:09 +0000 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: can't retract email Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Duh. Should NOT send email before coffee. 1900 is not a leap year, 1904, 1908, 1912, ... 1996 is a leap year, 2000 is a leap year. The day after Feb 28 is Feb 29. Awshit. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 08:36:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15830 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15779 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:35:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (kaleb@teapot.ics.com [140.186.40.160]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA07823 Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35D84C94.635DDD5E@ics.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:30:28 +0000 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WRT y2k compliance, in 2000, the day after Feb 28 is NOT Feb 29. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All this talk about y2k stuff, consider the following: #include #include #include #include int main () { time_t feb28; /* 28 Feb, 2000, 23:59:59 */ time_t mar1; struct tm tm_feb28; /* 28 Feb, 2000, 23:59:59 */ struct tm* tm_mar1; /* 1 Mar, 2000, 00:00:00 */ tm_feb28.tm_sec = tm_feb28.tm_min = 59; tm_feb28.tm_hour = 23; tm_feb28.tm_mday = 28; tm_feb28.tm_mon = 1; tm_feb28.tm_year = 100; tm_feb28.tm_isdst = -1; /* for POSIX mktime to DTRT WRT DST */ feb28 = mktime (&tm_feb28); (void) printf ("%s\n", ctime (&feb28)); mar1 = feb28 + 1; (void) printf ("%s\n", ctime (&mar1)); tm_mar1 = gmtime (&mar1); (void) printf ("month (s/b 2):%d\n", tm_mar1->tm_mon); (void) printf (" day (s/b 1):%d\n", tm_mar1->tm_mday); return 0; } I ran this program on: SunOS 4.1.4, Solaris 2.5.1 Solaris 2.6 HPUX 10.20 IRIX 5.3 IRIX 6.2 Digital Unix 3.2 Redhat Linux 5.0 (libc6/glibc 2.0.7) and they all got it wrong. (It could be that one or more of them are fixed in some patch I don't have installed. ) I didn't try on FreeBSD because that's at home, but I'd be willing to wager serious money that it gets it wrong too. And I didn't check, but if they all think 2000 has a 29 Feb., then I'd wager they think that there's 366 days in the year too, and that all the day-of-the-week are off by a day for every day after Feb 28. /usr/bin/cal is broken too on the two systems I checked. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 08:41:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16888 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16867 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06318; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:07:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:07:04 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Didier Derny cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: yard/freebsd (network problem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i don't have time to check this out myself, but you might have some luck with setsockopt() man setsockopt gives some interesting options: SO_SNDLOWAT set minimum count for output SO_RCVLOWAT set minimum count for input SO_SNDTIMEO set timeout value for output SO_RCVTIMEO set timeout value for input ... SO_SNDLOWAT is an option to set the minimum count for output operations. Most output operations process all of the data supplied by the call, de- livering data to the protocol for transmission and blocking as necessary for flow control. Nonblocking output operations will process as much da- ta as permitted subject to flow control without blocking, but will pro- cess no data if flow control does not allow the smaller of the low water mark value or the entire request to be processed. A select(2) operation testing the ability to write to a socket will return true only if the low water mark amount could be processed. The default value for SO_SNDLOWAT is set to a convenient size for network efficiency, often 1024. maybe you can try this? good luck, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Didier Derny wrote: > Hi, > > I still have the yard/freebsd problem > every program I written with yard/cli worked > fine on linux but failed on FreeBSD > > On FreeBSD, there is a kind of 1 second delay between > the sql statments. > > the problem is solved but setting net.inet.tcp.ack_delayed=1 > > Yard is using normal read/write to talk to the server. > > Is there any flag to set with setsockopt/fcntl... to > get a fast delivry of small packets ? > > we tried TCP_NODELAY last week but without any result. > > Thanks for your help, > > -- > Didier Derny > didier@omnix.net > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20243 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20223 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arnout@tomcat.xs4all.nl) Received: from tomcat.xs4all.nl (tomcat.xs4all.nl [194.109.15.187]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05940 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:15:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from arnout@localhost) by tomcat.xs4all.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01998; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:12:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980817161047.52771@xs4all.nl> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:10:47 +0200 From: Arnout Boer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PPP filterering problems.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! A couple of weeks ago I grabbed the latest ppp source. I installed it and let my FreeBSD server alias for the network in the background.... with some puzzling and reading that was not much of a problem. But the filtering is unclear for me.. With the following filter almost nothing comes in.. I don't have a clue and coulnd't find a extensive filtering explanation so if anybody can help. Great... Here are my filtering rules from ppp.conf (btw... if it's beter to use ipfw as filter in combination with ppp -alias than I will look after that) But since ppp supports it... why not :-) # ppp.conf default: set log local tcp/ip Phase Chat Connect hdlc LCP IPCP CCP tun command set device /dev/cuaa0 set speed 38400 set timeout 0 disable pred1 deny pred1 disable lqr # # If we don't want ICMP and DNS packets to keep the connection alive: # set filter alive 0 deny icmp set filter alive 1 deny udp src eq 53 set filter alive 2 deny udp dst eq 53 set filter alive 3 deny udp src eq 520 set filter alive 4 deny udp dst eq 520 set filter alive 5 deny udp src eq 137 set filter alive 6 deny udp dst eq 137 set filter alive 7 deny udp src eq 138 set filter alive 8 deny udp dst eq 138 set filter alive 9 deny udp src eq 139 set filter alive 10 deny udp dst eq 139 set filter alive 11 permit 0/0 0/0 # # And we don't want ICMPs to cause a dialup: # set filter dial 0 deny icmp set filter dial 1 deny udp src eq 53 set filter dial 2 deny udp dst eq 53 set filter dial 3 deny udp src eq 137 set filter dial 4 deny udp dst eq 137 set filter dial 5 deny udp src eq 138 set filter dial 6 deny udp dst eq 138 set filter dial 7 deny udp src eq 139 set filter dial 8 deny udp dst eq 139 # # or any TCP SYN or RST packets (badly closed TCP channels): # set filter dial 9 deny 0 0 tcp syn finrst # Finally set filter dial 10 permit 0/0 0/0 # Once the line's up, allow connections for ident (113), telnet (23), # ftp (20 & 21), DNS (53), my place of work (192.244.191.0/24), # ICMP (ping) and traceroute (>33433). # # Anything else is blocked by default # # set filter in 0 permit tcp dst eq 113 # set filter out 0 permit tcp src eq 113 set filter in 1 permit tcp src eq 23 estab set filter out 1 permit tcp dst eq 23 set filter in 2 permit tcp src eq 21 estab set filter out 2 permit tcp dst eq 21 set filter in 3 permit tcp src eq 20 dst gt 1023 set filter out 3 permit tcp dst eq 20 set filter in 4 permit udp src eq 53 set filter out 4 permit udp dst eq 53 set filter in 5 permit icmp set filter out 5 permit icmp set filter in 6 permit udp dst gt 33433 set filter out 6 permit udp src gt 33433 set filter out 7 permit tcp dst eq 25 set filter in 7 permit tcp src eq 25 estab set filter in 8 permit 0/0 192.168.0.1/24 set filter out 8 permit 192.168.0.1/24 0/0 set filter in 9 permit udp src eq 22 set filter out 9 permit udp dst eq 22 set filter out 10 permit tcp dst eq 22 set filter in 10 permit tcp src eq 22 set filter in 11 permit udp src eq 119 set filter out 11 permit udp dst eq 119 set filter out 12 permit tcp dst eq 119 set filter in 12 permit tcp src eq 119 set filter in 14 permit udp src eq 110 set filter out 14 permit udp dst eq 110 set filter out 15 permit tcp dst eq 110 set filter in 15 permit tcp src eq 110 set filter in 16 permit udp src eq 194 set filter out 16 permit udp dst eq 194 set filter out 18 permit tcp dst eq 194 set filter in 18 permit tcp src eq 194 set filter out 19 permit tcp src eq 80 set filter in 19 permit tcp dst eq 80 # # If none of above rules matches, then packet is blocked. # on demand --- ppp -auto -alias demand demand: alias enable yes alias log yes alias use_sockets yes alias unregistered_only yes set login "TIMEOUT 5 ogin:-\\r-ogin: blah TIMEOUT 20 word: oeps" set timeout 90 set ifaddr 194.109.15.187 194.109.6.1/0 255.255.0.0 0.0.0.0 add default HISADDR # enable dns set openmode active To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:20:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22425 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09050; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:19:41 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA14141; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:19:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980817171904.A14129@iii.co.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:19:04 +0100 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WRT y2k compliance, in 2000, the day after Feb 28 is NOT Feb 29. References: <35D84C94.635DDD5E@ics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35D84C94.635DDD5E@ics.com>; from Kaleb S. KEITHLEY on Mon, Aug 17, 1998 at 03:30:28PM +0000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Aug 17, 1998 at 03:30:28PM +0000, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > And I didn't check, but if they all think 2000 has a 29 Feb., then I'd > wager they think that there's 366 days in the year too, and that all the > day-of-the-week are off by a day for every day after Feb 28. > /usr/bin/cal is broken too on the two systems I checked. [ Please, this has to be a troll ] The year 2000 *is* a leap year. A year is a leap year if 1. It's evenly divisible by 4, unless it's evenly divisible by 100 or 2. It's evenly divisible by 400. 1900 wasn't a leap year. 2000 will be. Please see (amongst others) section 4 of N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton becomes Just Another Perl Contractor in 26 days. ]==+-- "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "Duh, yeah Brain. But how are we going to get all those computers to crash at the same time?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:23:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22771 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22757 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA08762; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:22:22 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:22:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: David Greenman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199808171348.GAA19588@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, David Greenman wrote: > > For the server, "s" above appears to be the unconnected (listen) socket. > The TCP_NODELAY option is not propagated across to accept()ed sockets, so > you must do the setsockopt on those, not on the listen socket. > > -DG > Yard has just discovered that "dup" was loosing the TCP_NODELAY flag is it the normal behaviour for dup ? -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:27:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23490 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:27:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04944; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:37:19 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:37:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: David Greenman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199808171348.GAA19588@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, David Greenman wrote: > For the server, "s" above appears to be the unconnected (listen) socket. > The TCP_NODELAY option is not propagated across to accept()ed sockets, so > you must do the setsockopt on those, not on the listen socket. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > They have made the modification on their program to do the setsockopt on the connect socket but without any success; Is there any possibily to track this socketoption to understand why it diseappear ? When I force the nodelay in the kernel everything works fine -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:38:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25430; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA03179; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:38:07 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199808171638.KAA03179@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-Reply-To: <199808170639.IAA18998@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Aug 17, 98 08:39:41 am" To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Cc: gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Søren Schmidt wrote... > In reply to Justin T. Gibbs who wrote: > > >So when do we get CAM, when do we get documentation for it ?? > > > > If you want access to the development repository, I can give it to > > you right now. If you're talking about getting the code into the > > tree, we're pretty much down to the aha1542, DPT, and worm driver. > > My guess is another month. > > Dont waste your time on the worm driver, unless you plan to > upgrade it significantly. It does only support a couble of > old drives that are not made anymore. My plan is to port the current WORM driver, and leave it at that. It'll probably get done in the next week or two. I'm not planning on upgrading it any, since the SCSI specs all seem to be pointing towards a single integrated CD driver that handles reading and writing. Besides, all the new CD-R's and CD-RW's probe as CDROM devices. > The ATAPI burners are easier, they are all (well most) MMC3 > compatible, so you can use the same driver for them all. > (You could tweak my driver into a SCSI subsystem I guess) I was thinking about putting write support in the CAM cd driver to support CD-R, CD-RW, and eventually DVD drives. Until I get to it, though, cdrecord supports most everything on the market. Are you handling devices that can write via a separate peripheral driver, or do you have an integrated ATAPI CD/CD-R/CD-RW driver? It may well be possible to share some code for ATAPI and SCSI CD-R/CD-RW drives. > And yes you need support for at least the 1542 & clones before > we can put CAM into the kernel for good. A 1542 driver is in the works. Warner already has some code written. (I think it just probes at this point.) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:43:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26384 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA315; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:41:23 +0200 Message-ID: <35D85D39.8ED6BD8E@pipeline.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:41:29 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? References: <199808170356.LAA16257@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > There was a discussion a while ago about how sendfile (as implemented on NT) > was a BadThing(tm). One guy came up with what can only be described as an I/O Yea, I can remember somthing on c.u.b.f.m about that. But it was more about webserver performance in general. > interpreter, where the kernel provides a facility such that you can load up a > description of what you want done with the data. His first name was Chuck, and > he came up with quite an interesting thesis, implementing his code under > NetBSD. The problem is that sendfile is unsufficiently general, and probably > wont cope with things like network type changes, et cetera. The benefit of something like sendfile() is (according to Marc and my understanding) to save the time something needs to get read from an FS and write to the network (very common in webserver and fileserver applications) via userland (actually the process that does the handling of the serving). IMO the best thing would be some sort of an LKM that does this, maybe with different API's. I don't know if it is possible for an LKM to offer such an API to userland processes. Someone knows? -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26543 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA26310; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06909; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:43:45 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:43:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199808171643.KAA06909@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Didier Derny Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If it is the correct sequence do you have any idea on why it > does not seem to be working ? ... > and this is the server: > > =============================== > > if ((s = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,0)) < 0) > { > fprintf(stderr,"server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); > netlog("server: socket() failed. errno = %d\n",errno); > exit(1); > } > > if ((sopt = getenv("YARDTCPNODELAY"))) > { > int flag = 1; > > printf("Using socket option TCP_NODELAY to %d\n",flag); > if (setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY,(char*)&flag,sizeof(i > nt)) < 0) > { > fprintf(stderr,"server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\ > n",errno); > netlog("server: setsockopt() failed. errno = %d\n",errno > ); > } > } The server-socket from the client should be gotten via an 'accept' call, not from a raw socket call. The server code above is wrong, as the setsockopt should be called on the socket you get from accept(). Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:47:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27439 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27430 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA26333; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06919; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:47:08 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:47:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199808171647.KAA06919@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Didier Derny Cc: David Greenman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <199808171348.GAA19588@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > For the server, "s" above appears to be the unconnected (listen) socket. > > The TCP_NODELAY option is not propagated across to accept()ed sockets, so > > you must do the setsockopt on those, not on the listen socket. > > > > They have made the modification on their program to do the setsockopt > on the connect socket but without any success; The 'connect()' socket is only on the client. You must set it on the 'accept()' half (server) as well. > Is there any possibily to track this socketoption to understand > why it diseappear ? getsockopt() will tell you if it's still set. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 09:53:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29034 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28972 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA326; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:51:32 +0200 Message-ID: <35D85F99.5304B24D@pipeline.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:51:37 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > any closerr references on this would be greatly appreciated.. I don't know if you mean exactly this, but it's an start: http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?search=thread&recnum=%3c6pqg14$emi$1 @scanner.worldgate.com%3e%231/1&svcclass=dnserver (on one line) Thread in c.u.b.f.m called "PRO-Microsoft sentiment?" started on 1998/07/20 by our best friend Fewtch... Matt, Marc and Terry are discussing the implentation of webservers. -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 10:01:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00895 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA324; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:59:46 +0200 Message-ID: <35D86188.7D5E2E17@pipeline.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:59:52 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WRT y2k compliance, in 2000, the day after Feb 28 is NOT Feb 29. References: <35D84C94.635DDD5E@ics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > All this talk about y2k stuff, consider the following: -snip- > and they all got it wrong. (It could be that one or more of them are > fixed in some patch I don't have installed. ) I didn't try on > FreeBSD because that's at home, but I'd be willing to wager serious > money that it gets it wrong too. OK, I bet against. How much? > And I didn't check, but if they all think 2000 has a 29 Feb., then I'd > wager they think that there's 366 days in the year too, and that all the > day-of-the-week are off by a day for every day after Feb 28. > /usr/bin/cal is broken too on the two systems I checked. First give me the money, then I tell you why ;-) -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 10:19:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03780 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from caig2.att.att.com by cagw2.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Aug 17 13:14 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA04442 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:17:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: WRT y2k compliance, in 2000, the day after Feb 28 is NOT Feb 29. Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:17:32 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Kaleb S. KEITHLEY [SMTP:kaleb@ics.com] > > All this talk about y2k stuff, consider the following: > [program skipped] > And I didn't check, but if they all think 2000 has a 29 Feb., then I'd > wager they think that there's 366 days in the year too, and that all > the > day-of-the-week are off by a day for every day after Feb 28. > /usr/bin/cal is broken too on the two systems I checked. > Year 2000 really has the day of February 29th. And it's an important date in Y2K testing :-) The rule behind it is: leap= ( (year%4==0) && ( !(year%100==0) || (year%400==0) ) ) -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 10:22:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04503 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA17302; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:21:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:21:28 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Cc: hackers Subject: Re: 2.2.7R and /sys/kern/kern_opt.c [another missing tag] References: <35D755BA.28E3C851@bt340707.res.ray.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 17 Aug 1998 19:21:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Gregory D. Moncreaff"'s message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:57:14 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA04513 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Gregory D. Moncreaff" writes: > This file is looked for when doing a "make depend" to build a kernel > but is not presently tagged for 2.2.7R This file (which used to contain a list of deprecated options) does not exist any more. Always reconfig your kernel after a cvsup, and if changes have been made to config (read tour cvsup logs!), rebuild config before reconfiging your kernel. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 10:22:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04733 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:22:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04716 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10229; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:21:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Andre Oppermann , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <26941.903302184@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apache 1.3 uses MMAP to send static content. I assume this is what sendfile() would do. The fact that Apache already has this feature, without the abstracting API would indicate that such a thing would be worth it no? On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > They state sendfile() gives excellent Webserver performace, isn't that > > somthing for FreeBSD? > > Predicated on two things, both of which I raised at the Apache core > developers meeting recently: > > 1. A reasonable (e.g. not HP/UX's) API is established by those who're > going to use it so that we know just what precisely it is we're supposed > to implement. > > 2. Some sort of benchmark suite is developed to show when and where > this *actually helps* so that we can justify the addition of > sendfile() to FreeBSD (or any other OS, for that matter). > > I'm still waiting for either of those things to happen, and until then > it's a reasonable assumption that demand is just not that significant > yet. > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- | Matthew N. Dodd |This space | '78 Datsun 280Z | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net |is for rent| '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 11:04:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:04:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12451 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@synx.com) Received: from synx.com (rn [192.1.1.241]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA24662; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:03:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199808171803.TAA24662@bsd.synx.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:03:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Remy NONNENMACHER Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) To: didier@omnix.net cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17 Aug, Didier Derny wrote: > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, David Greenman wrote: > >> For the server, "s" above appears to be the unconnected (listen) socket. >> The TCP_NODELAY option is not propagated across to accept()ed sockets, so >> you must do the setsockopt on those, not on the listen socket. >> >> -DG >> >> David Greenman >> Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >> > > They have made the modification on their program to do the setsockopt > on the connect socket but without any success; > > Is there any possibily to track this socketoption to understand > why it diseappear ? > > When I force the nodelay in the kernel everything works fine > I think i got the point. Didier sent me a tcpdump trace of the exchange beetwen the client and the server. The protocol uses a lot of small packets flowing back and forth, so ack_delayed=1 would be a good thing. Unfortunetly, sometime (ie, 3 time in the trace), the protocol encountered the 100 bytes syndrome. Precisely, the application wrote 163 bytes, the data base replied by 119 bytes and the application wrote 105 bytes. Here are fragments : 13:16:24.147494 1035 > yardsql: P 401:501(100) ack 70 win 17280 13:16:24.232584 yardsql > 1035: . ack 501 win 17280 13:16:24.232629 1035 > yardsql: P 501:564(63) ack 70 win 17280 13:16:24.234125 yardsql > 1035: P 70:170(100) ack 564 win 17280 13:16:24.432584 1035 > yardsql: . ack 170 win 17280 13:16:24.432624 yardsql > 1035: P 170:193(23) ack 564 win 17280 13:16:24.432767 1035 > yardsql: P 564:639(75) ack 193 win 17280 13:16:24.433231 yardsql > 1035: P 193:293(100) ack 639 win 17280 13:16:24.632595 1035 > yardsql: . ack 293 win 17280 13:16:24.632639 yardsql > 1035: P 293:312(19) ack 639 win 17280 The 100 byte syndrome caused a bad fragmentation and delayed the whole transaction by half a second (mean response time for other exchanges are about 1 milli-second). The solution here seems to force the TCP_NODELAY and ack_delayed=1. In january, during the 100 byte thread, Luigi Rizzo said: "FreeBSD isn't alone in this by any means and you don't run into it that often, but when you do it is a real pain." He was right ;). RN. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 11:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15907 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22654; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022620; Mon Aug 17 11:17:41 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06770; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:17:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808171817.LAA06770@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: sendfile() API? To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:17:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc Slemko" at Aug 16, 98 11:31:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I would also hate to have to edit CRLF into all of my WWW pages, > > which would be required. 8-(. > > You seem to think that web servers do line ending transformation while > they are sending. They (speaking in general for every server I have used) > don't. > > If you have to perform arbitrary data translations, I am doubtful that > there is much room for an improved API. However, in a lot of cases you > don't. I have no doubt that it would be useful for static pages; I am just not convinced that pushing the data over a call boundary is the real overhead here. For an mmap'ed file, the only overhead is the copy from the VM buffer to the mbuf. The only way such a call could eliminated this overhead is by passing the VM buffers down as mbuf contents. This can be done (I did the code for it on the VMS NetWare server), but it's a lot of work. I have found that running a cgi that invokes "team" or "ddd" to overlap I/O does a much better job of pushing content, especially images, fast. The bottleneck is the network I/O capacity, not the read-from-disk capacity. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 11:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20069 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20061; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) id UAA20397; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:33:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199808171833.UAA20397@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-Reply-To: <199808171638.KAA03179@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "Aug 17, 98 10:38:06 am" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:33:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Kenneth D. Merry who wrote: > > > > Dont waste your time on the worm driver, unless you plan to > > upgrade it significantly. It does only support a couble of > > old drives that are not made anymore. > > My plan is to port the current WORM driver, and leave it at that. It'll > probably get done in the next week or two. I'm not planning on upgrading > it any, since the SCSI specs all seem to be pointing towards a single > integrated CD driver that handles reading and writing. Besides, all the > new CD-R's and CD-RW's probe as CDROM devices. Again its mostly a waste of time, use cdrecord on a generic SCSI device (there is a patch for this floating around). > > The ATAPI burners are easier, they are all (well most) MMC3 > > compatible, so you can use the same driver for them all. > > (You could tweak my driver into a SCSI subsystem I guess) > > I was thinking about putting write support in the CAM cd driver to > support CD-R, CD-RW, and eventually DVD drives. Until I get to it, though, > cdrecord supports most everything on the market. > > Are you handling devices that can write via a separate peripheral driver, > or do you have an integrated ATAPI CD/CD-R/CD-RW driver? It may well be > possible to share some code for ATAPI and SCSI CD-R/CD-RW drives. The new atapi-cd driver I've been working on supports the works CD/CDR/CDRW they are all supported by one and the same driver. You can steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow the workings from there, but its not completely finished yet. I still need a few minor details and then of cause to teach the rest of the system to use != 512 byte blocks. I have changes physio a bit, so I can actually get the 2352byte blocks I want, and seems to work just fine. That should also eleminate the need to have a special ioctl to rip audio directly off the disc... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 13:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15452 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15426 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA19990 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:37 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Virtual Memory for buffer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The virtual memory of buffer is allocated from buffer_map in getnewbuf() by calling vm_map_findspace() and vm_map_insert(). Its address is saved in b_kvasize and (sometimes) b_data. These are fine. However, when allocbuf() extend VMIO buffer size, it *truncates* b_data to a page boundary before entering buffer pages into KVA. I wonder if virtual address space is not always allocated on page boundary, then it is possible that after the PTE has changed to point to our buffer page, those virtual addresses that does not belong to us and yet in the same virtual page could lose their mappings because we truncate the b_data. I hope someone can clarify this for me. Thanks a lot. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 13:48:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16107 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13037; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012948; Mon Aug 17 13:47:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06478; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:47:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808172047.NAA06478@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: sendfile() API? To: oppermann@pipeline.ch (Andre Oppermann) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:47:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shocking@prth.pgs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35D85D39.8ED6BD8E@pipeline.ch> from "Andre Oppermann" at Aug 17, 98 06:41:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The benefit of something like sendfile() is (according to Marc and my > understanding) to save the time something needs to get read from an > FS and write to the network (very common in webserver and fileserver > applications) via userland (actually the process that does the handling > of the serving). OK, here we go again... On a non-unified VM and buffer cache OS, a write requires a bmap operation to map the user's buffer into the kernel virtual address sapce. On a Unified VM and buffer cache, this is not necessary. To establish an mmap mapping of a file into a process address space on a non-unified VM and buffer cache machine, seperate VM pages are needed, and these shadow buffer cache contents, requiring a copy of the buffer cache contents into VM to instantiate the mapping and make it visible to the process. On a unified VM and buffer cache system, a buffer is a VM mapping, and no copy is necessary. So if you mmap the file on FreeBSD, and then write a memory range in the file to a socket, then the only triggered copy is from a kernel space VM buffer to a kernel space anonymous VM mapping (an mbuf). There are two unavoidable copies here: (1), the copy from the disk controller to the VM buffer for the page demand, and (2) the copy from the mbuf to the ethernet controller. Technically, you could argue that you should be able to give a VM object to the networking stack, and save the triggered copy. The problem with this is the page size on the system. True, you could do the first page of a file this way, by putting the TCP header at the end of an anonymous page, and then butting it up against the start of the data; but unless your MTU is 4k, you will *have* to fragment pages. This requires a complicated automaton to get right, and while this is worthwhile on a CPU-poor machine, like a VAX, it's less of an issue for FreeBSD. FreeBSD, by it's architecture, already saves 2 of the 5 copies needed on most other systems, and the adulteration of the network architecture to save the 3rd is probably not worth it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 15:28:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07815 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from insanus.matematik.su.se (insanus.matematik.su.se [130.237.198.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07799 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tege@matematik.su.se) Received: from sophie.matematik.su.se (root@sophie.matematik.su.se [130.237.198.29]) by insanus.matematik.su.se (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16181 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:27:49 +0200 (MET DST) X-Address: Department of Mathematics, Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm SWEDEN X-Phone: int+46 8 162000 X-Fax: int+46 8 6126717 X-Url: http://www.matematik.su.se Received: from sophie.matematik.su.se (tege@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sophie.matematik.su.se (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA22127 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:28:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199808172228.AAA22127@sophie.matematik.su.se> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netboot Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:28:52 +0200 From: Torbjorn Granlund Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anybody out there that has made netboot work with fxp or de 100baseTX cards? Torbjorn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 15:51:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:51:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sequoia.lituus.fr (dij2-81.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.150.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11217 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@smtp.wanadoo.fr) Received: (from root@localhost) by sequoia.lituus.fr (8.9.1/8.8.8) id AAA07212; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:48:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:48:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199808172248.AAA07212@sequoia.lituus.fr> From: Stephane Legrand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: Mark Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Do we have a Y2K problem after all? (was 64-bit time_t) In-Reply-To: <199808171352.IAA16093@offline.dct.com> References: <199808171352.IAA16093@offline.dct.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA11231 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark writes: > Forwarded message: > > > > > > Problems in ls -l that seemed to indicate that there was being > > > concat'ed 19 somewhere instead of printing the correct century. > > > > > > However, this was on a single file, and we didn't do any more > > > experimentation at that point. I'm planning to try to reproduce the > > > condition, and see what kind of bug struck there. > > > > > > > I can see a similar bug with TkDesk 1.0 (/usr/ports/x11/tkdesk). > > > > A "ls -la" shows the good date (2 fév 2017) but TkDesk shows "19117" > > for the year (the day and the month are correct). Could it be a Tcl > > 7.6/Tk 4.2 bug ? > > > > Stephane Legrand. > > More than likely it is a bug in TkDesk itself. I could be wrong, however... > You are right. I also sent the bug report to the TkDesk mailing-list and the author himself agree and made a patch which correct the problem. Sorry. Stephane Legrand. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 16:19:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16639 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18758; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:18:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:18:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199808172318.TAA18758@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: bf20761@binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virtual Memory for buffer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The virtual memory of buffer is allocated from buffer_map in getnewbuf() > by calling vm_map_findspace() and vm_map_insert(). Its address is saved in > b_kvasize and (sometimes) b_data. These are fine. However, when > allocbuf() extend VMIO buffer size, it *truncates* b_data to a page > boundary before entering buffer pages into KVA. > > I wonder if virtual address space is not always allocated on page > boundary, then it is possible that after the PTE has changed to point to > our buffer page, those virtual addresses that does not belong to us and > yet in the same virtual page could lose their mappings because we truncate > the b_data. > > I hope someone can clarify this for me. Thanks a lot. > > -------------------------------------------------- > | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | > | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | > -------------------------------------------------- > A buffer's kva space is always allocated on a page boundary. Most of the time b_data and b_kvabase are the same, only for buffers that are not page aligned (e.g. buffers belong to VMIO enabled block device or directory vnode), b_data and b_kvabase are different, trunc_page(b_data) should always be b_kvabase though. The buffer still owns the virtual space between b_kvabase and b_data, so nothing would lose its mapping. -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 16:44:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20350 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26017; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808172342.QAA26017@implode.root.com> To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Virtual Memory for buffer In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:37 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:53 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >The virtual memory of buffer is allocated from buffer_map in getnewbuf() >by calling vm_map_findspace() and vm_map_insert(). Its address is saved in >b_kvasize and (sometimes) b_data. These are fine. However, when >allocbuf() extend VMIO buffer size, it *truncates* b_data to a page >boundary before entering buffer pages into KVA. > >I wonder if virtual address space is not always allocated on page >boundary, then it is possible that after the PTE has changed to point to Space is always allocated on a page boundry. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 18:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:35:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lexicon.ins.com (lexicon.ins.com [199.0.193.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08845 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vax@linkdead.paranoia.com) Received: from svlcawss.ins.com (svlcawss.ins.com [199.0.193.236]) by lexicon.ins.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA27473; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 205.180.83.70 by svlcawss.ins.com with SMTP (WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.0.1); Sat, 15 Aug 98 02:31:32 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: aadd1a76-264d-11d1-91c7-080009d97107 Received: (qmail 19457 invoked by uid 605); 15 Aug 1998 09:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 19451 invoked from network); 15 Aug 1998 09:30:26 -0000 Received: from linkdead.paranoia.com (204.145.225.245) by homeworld.cygnus.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 1998 09:30:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by linkdead.paranoia.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA00661; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:26:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808150926.EAA00661@linkdead.paranoia.com> X-Authentication-Warning: linkdead.paranoia.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech@openbsd.org, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: ups/power management techniques X-URI: http://www.paranoia.com/~vax Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 04:26:36 -0500 From: VaX#n8 Delivered-To: netbsd-users@netbsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apologies for sending to such a broad audience. I have been working quite hard on a cable, adapting electronics, and UPS monitoring software for NetBSD. I sent an email to the vendor about building a cable, and was told it wasn't possible. Naturally, I could not resist this challenge. I examined the Linux UPS HOWTO, various web pages, and built my own (learning quite a bit about RS-232 in the process). I was a little surprised to find that most of the serial communication information on the Internet began and ended with pin assignments. I couldn't even find a suitable newsgroup to ask questions in. After investigating several of the Linux packages, I decided it would still be worthwhile (instructive) to write my own. I've done so. However, my UPS only supports immediate shutdown (by raising a serial line for 50 milliseconds). This led to some rather interesting race conditions when trying to implement it in a stand-alone daemon. So, I figured I'd query the collective open-source knowledge base. Searching various mailing list archives has tended to generate more heat than light - there's a number of terms and synonyms people could use in describing the issue, and there are far more people asking where to find a particular software package than in discussing the real issues. So the questions I want to ask are: 1) What kind of kernel support would handle this in the cleanest way? 2) Where should the shutdown signal be asserted; in the userland monitoring program, the reboot command, the kernel reboot(2), or the instruction before HALT? ;) 3) Should there be any special handling after a powerfail shutdown? Specifically, should the OS idle in single-user mode until some condition is met, to avoid yo-yo-ing? 4) Anything else? I will summarize in a web page, so you need only email me and check my home page later (see the mail headers). Cc any mailing list at your own peril. While I wouldn't mind a cross-list technical discussion about the various approaches, they haven't worked in the past. Apologies for my semi-literacy; it has been a long night. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 19:28:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14233 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:28:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14213 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00292; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:25:02 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808171825.SAA00292@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg@krdl.org.sg (Joerg Micheel), ac199@hwcn.org, grog@lemis.com, mph@pobox.com, brawley@camtech.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64-bit time_t In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:02:42 GMT." <199808170602.XAA20899@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:25:02 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What bothers much more is resolution. Many things of interest now happen > > in fractions of milliseconds. Look at the clock frequency of computers > > or the clock of networks (SONET, etc). Nanosecond granularity is a must, > > if you'd like to accurately describe an interval it takes to compute or > > transmit a certain piece of information. Please note that granularity > > does not mean accuracy (it has never been). > > Right. For example, all resoloution better than a second is arrived > at through interpolation, and has been for a long time. SunOS 4 > interpolated to a resoloution of 4uS (based on the time it took to > make a system call vs. the speed of the hardware at the time). Not correct on systems Pentium and above, where the cycle counter is used. It's been a while since I looked at the code, but basically the cycle count is stored each tick and the number of cycles per tick is known, so a rapid calculation can be performed to obtain the offset from the last tick (whose time is known) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 19:28:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14337 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00964; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:27:03 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808162027.UAA00964@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: Andre Oppermann , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:08:12 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:25:07 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've been having a quick discussion with linus re: the sendfile() > API that he is puting in linux.. > I will be implementing an identical API on freebsd for > SAMBA to use. > warning: he has decided to not use an API identical to HPUX > but it will give similar (expanded) functionality. Is this the API that the apache folks discussed, ie. pre-send iovec, fd, post-send iovec, etc.? I understand we were waiting for them to quantify their "it would be faster" claims. There's a lot of hype about how sendfile() would be "so cool", but no actual proof that it would improve anything. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 19:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14505 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14499 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01756; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:28:22 GMT (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Message-Id: <199808151328.NAA01756@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:23:15 GMT." <199808152023.NAA20511@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:28:21 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'd be curious to know if anyone's measured the cost of the SCSI<->ATA > > translation for ATA disks, since that's where performance is really an > > issue. Nobody cares how efficient access to a Zip disk is, but an > > extra 10% overhead on ATA disk transactions would really hurt. > > > > Command passthrough doesn't (can't) work directly, as many fields are > > different sizes. I think what you mean is that there's no need for any > > intelligence in the translation, which is fair enough. > > A question I have is this: > > If I'm passing SCSI commands down, is it possible to actually support > multiple outstanding tagged commands? At the level you're passing commands down, you don't care (or know) whether they're going to be tagged and/or executed in parallel. > I know that the EIDE specification allows for this, but I am unaware > of any IDE disk drives that support it. You are confusing ATAPI (where SCSI passthrough is worthwhile) and ATA (where it may not be). EIDE is a non-term. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 20:01:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18399 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24847; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 02:30:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199808180130.CAA24847@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Arnout Boer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP filterering problems.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:10:47 +0200." <19980817161047.52771@xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 02:30:23 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi! > > A couple of weeks ago I grabbed the latest ppp source. > I installed it and let my FreeBSD server alias for > the network in the background.... with some puzzling and > reading that was not much of a problem. > But the filtering is unclear for me.. > > With the following filter almost nothing comes in.. > I don't have a clue and coulnd't find a extensive > filtering explanation so if anybody can help. > Great... [.....] > # set filter in 0 permit tcp dst eq 113 > # set filter out 0 permit tcp src eq 113 > set filter in 1 permit tcp src eq 23 estab > set filter out 1 permit tcp dst eq 23 > set filter in 2 permit tcp src eq 21 estab > set filter out 2 permit tcp dst eq 21 > set filter in 3 permit tcp src eq 20 dst gt 1023 > set filter out 3 permit tcp dst eq 20 > set filter in 4 permit udp src eq 53 > set filter out 4 permit udp dst eq 53 > set filter in 5 permit icmp > set filter out 5 permit icmp > set filter in 6 permit udp dst gt 33433 > set filter out 6 permit udp src gt 33433 > set filter out 7 permit tcp dst eq 25 > set filter in 7 permit tcp src eq 25 estab > set filter in 8 permit 0/0 192.168.0.1/24 > set filter out 8 permit 192.168.0.1/24 0/0 > set filter in 9 permit udp src eq 22 > set filter out 9 permit udp dst eq 22 > set filter out 10 permit tcp dst eq 22 > set filter in 10 permit tcp src eq 22 > set filter in 11 permit udp src eq 119 > set filter out 11 permit udp dst eq 119 > set filter out 12 permit tcp dst eq 119 > set filter in 12 permit tcp src eq 119 > set filter in 14 permit udp src eq 110 > set filter out 14 permit udp dst eq 110 > set filter out 15 permit tcp dst eq 110 > set filter in 15 permit tcp src eq 110 > set filter in 16 permit udp src eq 194 > set filter out 16 permit udp dst eq 194 > set filter out 18 permit tcp dst eq 194 > set filter in 18 permit tcp src eq 194 > set filter out 19 permit tcp src eq 80 > set filter in 19 permit tcp dst eq 80 [.....] >From the man page: 2. Rule-no is a numeric value between `0' and `19' specifying the rule number. Rules are specified in numeric order according to rule-no, but only if rule `0' is defined. [.....] o Each filter can hold up to 20 rules, starting from rule 0. The en- tire rule set is not effective until rule 0 is defined, ie. the de- fault is to allow everything through. So, you should be letting just about everything in & out :-I -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 20:55:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24473; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-121.camalott.com [208.229.74.121]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09652; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:56:15 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04870; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:53:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:53:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808180353.WAA04870@detlev.UUCP> To: ken@plutotech.com CC: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808171638.KAA03179@panzer.plutotech.com> (ken@plutotech.com) Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808171638.KAA03179@panzer.plutotech.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Dont waste your time on the worm driver, unless you plan to >> upgrade it significantly. It does only support a couble of >> old drives that are not made anymore. > My plan is to port the current WORM driver, and leave it at that. It'll > probably get done in the next week or two. I'm not planning on upgrading > it any, since the SCSI specs all seem to be pointing towards a single > integrated CD driver that handles reading and writing. Besides, all the > new CD-R's and CD-RW's probe as CDROM devices. If you need help, let me know. I for one use a CDD-2600, one of said old drives, and find that it doesn't work with cdrecord. (I'd also like to do tests on buffer underruns on cdrecord vs dd if I ever can.) Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 21:00:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25138 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25133 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-121.camalott.com [208.229.74.121]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09947; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:01:31 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04882; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:59:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:59:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808180359.WAA04882@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Using In-Reply-To: in vacation From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having just gotten this message, and having no idea what I sent Jörg, I think I'm going to add an In-Reply-To: header to vacation. Any objections? Happy hacking, joelh ------- Start of forwarded message ------- X-Coding-System: iso-latin-1-unix Mail-from: From joelh Mon Aug 17 22:38:55 1998 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04680 for joelh; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:38:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) X-POP3-Rcpt: joelh@mescaline.gnu.org Received: from mail.gnu.org by detlev.UUCP (fetchmail-4.5.2 POP3) for (single-drop); Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:38:49 CDT Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by mescaline.gnu.org (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id OAA32728 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:40:39 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id UAA07474 for joelh@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:39:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA01849 for joelh@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:30:24 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:30:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199808171830.UAA01849@uriah.heep.sax.de> To: joelh@gnu.org X-Smiley: :-* (has eaten something sour) From: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: I am away from email access Delivered-By-The-Graces-Of: The Vacation program Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey you, who has just been bothered enough to write me some mail, sorry to say, but I'm quite some miles away from home and email access. I plan to be back here sometime around August, 18. Es tut mir schrecklich leid, aber ich bin im Moment ohne Mailzugriff. Ich bin wohl irgendwann um den 18. August herum zurück. Für sämtliche den SaxNet e. V. betreffenden Angelegenheiten, wende Dich bitte an die Liste bugs@sax.de. Any questions regarding FreeBSD should be forwarded to the freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org mailing list (or freebsd-hackers if appropriate). If you're selling or advertising something and sending me unsolicited email about it, then kindly talk to your ISP about removing your account and save myself and many other people the trouble of doing so. Hopefully :), your message has been recorded, and as soon as I've been digging through the umphundred messages of accumulated eMail when coming back, I will get back to you. You are supposed to get this message at most once per week. - -- greetings, Jörg ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 17 23:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:24:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06198; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:24:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) id IAA01548; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:22:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199808180622.IAA01548@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. In-Reply-To: <199808180353.WAA04870@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Aug 17, 98 10:53:59 pm" To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:22:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: ken@plutotech.com, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Joel Ray Holveck who wrote: > > My plan is to port the current WORM driver, and leave it at that. It'll > > probably get done in the next week or two. I'm not planning on upgrading > > it any, since the SCSI specs all seem to be pointing towards a single > > integrated CD driver that handles reading and writing. Besides, all the > > new CD-R's and CD-RW's probe as CDROM devices. > > If you need help, let me know. I for one use a CDD-2600, one of said > old drives, and find that it doesn't work with cdrecord. (I'd also > like to do tests on buffer underruns on cdrecord vs dd if I ever can.) Strange, I have one of those, and some of HP relabeled ones. they work just fine with cdrecord, albiet on a SUN, so your setup might be wrong. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 00:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11281 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21987 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:19:25 +0600 (ESS) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <35D92AFD.E4985460@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:19:25 +0600 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Ural Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: ru,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wget vs. fetch [was: Re: JDK1.1.6-jdk1.1.6.V98-8-14.tar.gz is released] References: <199808171904.DAA26315@public.bta.net.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Robinson wrote: > > >Finally, there is still no ftp access to the JDK (yet). Until someone > >provides me with public ftp access the release will only be available > >via http. > > I have found that the GNU "wget" program is a useful substitute for > ftp/reget when ftp is not available. It can "reget" an incomplete HTTP > download, and has a nice ftp-style download progress display. > I have the following lines in my /etc/make.conf: FETCH_CMD= /usr/local/bin/wget FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS= -nd -t 0 IMO, wget is more handy for downloads. I'm setting the infinite number of retries because of my bad network link. The only drawback is, when one of MASTER_SITE_OVERRIDE's is down. Wget is trying to connect endlessly. -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 04:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07941 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muffin.arcadia.spb.ru (arcadia-gw.infopro.spb.su [195.201.255.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07915 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fetch@muffin.arcadia.spb.ru) Received: (from root@localhost) by muffin.arcadia.spb.ru (8.9.1/8.8.6) id PAA06709 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org.smtp; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:46:08 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from fetch@localhost) by muffin.arcadia.spb.ru (8.9.1/8.8.6) id PAA06670 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:46:06 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <199808181146.PAA06670@muffin.arcadia.spb.ru> Subject: problem with ll cloned routes To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:46:06 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Please be patient to the things that I'm going to describe below, I may be wrong (in fact I guess I'm wrong with the fix) I've recently found an annoying feature of internal routing table managing in FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE (posted two lame problem reports on this yet - #7578, wish someone will remove it from there). First the problem itself: when interface is deleted (or alias on an interface is deleted) a corresponding route to network that was added for this interface is deleted also (it's quite reasonable and what everyone expects when deleting an interface). Well, but link layer cloned routes associated with this interface are not deleted. They remain intact and what is worst apparently contain pointer to the previous struct ifaddr, that itself contains old interface information. So, when you delete an alias on interface and for example set another (neighboring) ip address on it and there is a route to some host cloned from the old alias, packets to that host will go out with the old alias ip address of used interface. Because when doing rt_alloc for ip_output, it will find the old route matching and ip_output will happily retrieve an old (non-existing so far) interface address from the pointer in this rtentry and send packets with the old (non-existing) ip address. Well, now the technical details I've found. Please, if I'm wrong could someone please explain me where I mistake. Creating a route: 1. interface is being configured. On some step of this configuration route to corresponding network is added (I'm now talking about ether interface) 2. some packet is ready to be out on this interface. In ip_output rtalloc_ign(ro, RTF_PRCLONING) is called to find route to the destination 3. rtalloc_ign calls rtalloc1 that finds route to network created when corresponding interface was created and then tries to allocate route to destination 4. it calls rtrequest 5. rtrequest allocates a new rtentry and on some internal step will call ifa->ifa_rtrequest for used interface (arp_rtrequest) 6. finally route is ready and has the flag RTF_WASCLONED (route to network from which it was cloned has the flag RTF_CLONING on it) 7. packet is out Now deleting an alias or interface configuraion at all: 1. interface losts its address. On some step in_ifscrub is called that will try to remove any route to the interface address that is being deleted 2. in_ifscrub calls rtinit with RTM_DELETE parameter 3. rtinit on some step call rtrequest with cmd = RTM_DELETE 4. what happens in rtrequest_delete is a little bit strange - it doesn't do anything that will delete routes cloned from this route being deleted (not protocol-cloned). I.e. it apparently doesn't even try to locate routing entries cloned from this route. Am I wrong and simply didn't notice such code? If so, I'd appreciate it very much if you point me where is the code that will try to remove cloned routing entries, I'm very curious about it. Well, in fact I'm pretty sure that such code must exist there but I didn't find it and so didn't find why it doesn't work. So the only thing that came to mind is the following: in rtrequest_makeroute when checking if the route is protocol-cloned check also if it's ll cloned and create a link to parent route in this case also, then in rtrequest_delete when checking for cloned routes look also for any ll cloned routes if there is RTF_CLONING flag on the route we are deleting. This is the only trick I developed against that problem and apparently it seems functional, also there comes another problem that confuses me: netstat doesn't show ll cloned entries with this fix and that's because it assumes that having non-zero rt_parent pointer means the route is _protocol_cloned_. Well, I'm a little bit messed with that code and the only thing I definitely want to know is - where is in fact the right code that will clear ll cloned route entries and what is then the right mechanism for keeping, creating and cleaning such routes. I'll appreciate any comments on the above posting because I got very curious about all this routing implementation when started to look at the code. Well, why do I think I'm wrong with the patch. Because it makes ll cloned routes and protocol cloned routes look similar (don't think netstat is wrong not showing me routes with parent by default). Also, route.c was not changed since 2.2.2-RELEASE and it seems to me there was no such problem in 2.2.2, unfortunately can't verify it right now. Now the patched route.c --- route.c Tue Aug 18 13:32:27 1998 +++ route.c.orig Tue Aug 18 13:30:29 1998 @@ -450,7 +450,7 @@ * Now search what's left of the subtree for any cloned * routes which might have been formed from this node. */ - if ((rt->rt_flags & (RTF_CLONING | RTF_PRCLONING)) && netmask) { + if ((rt->rt_flags & RTF_PRCLONING) && netmask) { rnh->rnh_walktree_from(rnh, dst, netmask, rt_fixdelete, rt); } @@ -575,8 +575,7 @@ if (req == RTM_RESOLVE) { rt->rt_rmx = (*ret_nrt)->rt_rmx; /* copy metrics */ - if ((*ret_nrt)->rt_flags & - (RTF_CLONING | RTF_PRCLONING)) { + if ((*ret_nrt)->rt_flags & RTF_PRCLONING) { rt->rt_parent = (*ret_nrt); (*ret_nrt)->rt_refcnt++; } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 04:56:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09784 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17132 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:55:47 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:55:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Perl leaking ?? 3.0-980524-SNAP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I've had serveral problem with perl 5. after having installed perl5 from the pachages (cdrom 3.0-980524-SNAP) it refused to work complaining that libnet.so.0.92 was missing. I rebuild it from the ports but know It's eating all my memory Is it a know bug ? Is there any patch available Any suggestion ? Thanks for your help. -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 07:08:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23203 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from waru.life.nthu.edu.tw (waru.life.nthu.edu.tw [140.114.98.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA23187 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankch@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw) Received: (from frankch@localhost) by waru.life.nthu.edu.tw (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14403; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:11:29 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from frankch) Message-ID: <19980818221129.30050@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:11:29 +0800 From: Chen Hsiung Chan To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dual Celerons - anyone tried this? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Someone on the net have managed to hack the Intel Celeron CPU to make it running dual. The URL is http://www.cpu-central.com/dualceleron/ In the report they mentioned that one can overclock celeron to 448MHz, combined with the dual capability, the machine is certainly screaming. I might try these procedures in the next couble days. Has anyone tried this out yet? -- Chen-Hsiung Chan [žâÂíºµ](BIG5) Department of Life Science http://waru.life.nthu.edu.tw/~frankch/ National Tsing Hua University email: frankch@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw Taiwan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 08:42:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06844 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id RAA11782; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:41:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:41:28 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Chen Hsiung Chan Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dual Celerons - anyone tried this? References: <19980818221129.30050@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 18 Aug 1998 15:41:25 +0000 In-Reply-To: Chen Hsiung Chan's message of "Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:11:29 +0800" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA06847 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chen Hsiung Chan writes: > In the report they mentioned that one can overclock celeron > to 448MHz, combined with the dual capability, the machine is > certainly screaming. No matter how you shake it, a cache-less CPU does not scream except from anguish. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 09:16:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10953 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id SAA09543 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:15:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:15:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: kern/2858: FreeBSD NFS client can't mount filesystem from dual-homed machine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Problem -> solution -> question] The problem in short is described as follows. Host A is dual homed and is connected to network X and Y. Host B, a client of NFS server A, is connected to network X but NOT to Y. Let's say we do the following X=10.1.1 Y=10.2.1 AX=$X.124 AY=$Y.124 BX=$X.129 If you now have a line similar to $AY:/usr/src /usr/src nfs rw 0 0 in the $BX:/etc/fstab file, than the computer will hang as soon as it tries to mount /usr/src. Mounting $AX:/usr/src /usr/src nfs rw 0 0 will cause no grief. The problem is that the client sends a request to the 'far' address but gets an answer from the 'nearby' address and waits indefinitely for an answer. If you look with tcpdump on the wire you see however that an ICMP message is sent out to notify the server of the fact that something is wrong. Solution: Only mount from nearby addresses. This a stupid bug as it takes ages to figure. Second, it is a problem when you have a server that acts as an NFS server and router at the same time (like we have in a setup of 12 servers). One thing I would like to know whether there is a simple solution to this, like accepting answers from ANY of the IP addresses of the NFS server, or checking the returned IP address for its matching with the NFS server that we were trying to connect to? There is a bugfix suggested in the discussion of kern/2858, dated March 12th 1998, but has obviously not made it into 2.2.6. (not looked at 2.2.7). Regards, Nick -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 10:49:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com (gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA26386 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com; id MAA10331; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:46:11 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com(stlabcexg006 151.145.101.161) by gatewaya via smap (V2.1) id xma010301; Tue, 18 Aug 98 12:46:08 -0500 Received: by stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:48:20 -0500 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177663A@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: DIY Supercomputers Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:48:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anybody taken a look at the possibility of porting Beowulf http://www.beowulf.org to FreeBSD? Or are we clustering like the very wind our own selves someplace? Matthew Alton Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration (314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com alton@plantnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 10:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:59:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28512; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-32.camalott.com [208.229.74.32]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09225; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:00:18 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06426; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808181757.MAA06426@detlev.UUCP> To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG CC: ken@plutotech.com, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, gibbs@pluto.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808180622.IAA01548@sos.freebsd.dk> (message from Søren Schmidt on Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:22:36 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: TESTERS WANTED for new ATAPI CD/CDR/CDRW driver. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808180622.IAA01548@sos.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> My plan is to port the current WORM driver, and leave it at that. >>> It'll probably get done in the next week or two. I'm not planning >>> on upgrading it any, since the SCSI specs all seem to be pointing >>> towards a single integrated CD driver that handles reading and >>> writing. Besides, all the new CD-R's and CD-RW's probe as CDROM >>> devices. >> If you need help, let me know. I for one use a CDD-2600, one of >> said old drives, and find that it doesn't work with cdrecord. (I'd >> also like to do tests on buffer underruns on cdrecord vs dd if I >> ever can.) > Strange, I have one of those, and some of HP relabeled ones. they > work just fine with cdrecord, albiet on a SUN, so your setup might > be wrong. I never did a huge amount of testing (which is why I never submitted a pr), so it may be. I don't see any likely candidates, though, since the differences in setup between wormcontrol and cdrecord are slim. Even so, since the failure locks up my SCSI bus, and wormcontrol works fine, I saw no real need to spend the time and effort to troubleshoot the problem. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 11:54:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06672 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06659 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21569; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:54:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199808181854.OAA21569@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nick Hibma cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: kern/2858: FreeBSD NFS client can't mount filesystem from dual-homed machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:15:43 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:54:34 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nick.hibma@jrc.it said: :- The problem is that the client sends a request to the 'far' address :- but gets an answer from the 'nearby' address and waits indefinitely :- for an answer. I think this is a bug, but not with FreeBSD. I'm guessing that host A is a Sun system, or something like it, right? It is a *security* problem to accept the response from a different IP address than the one you sent it to, otherwise someone could sniff and masquerade as the NFS server. I think it a *bug* for the server to respond with the "near" address, and I think it would be a *bug* to accept this bogus address by default. Anyway, I overcame this problem (using automount) by specifying the "noconn" mount flag, as in: /defaults opts:=nosuid,grpid,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,noconn,rw,hard,intr; Try that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 12:09:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:09:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08709 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from localhost (kpielorz@localhost) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA06289 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:08:36 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:08:36 +0100 (BST) From: Karl Pielorz To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: High? Latency device-driver with no IRQ's? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, The device driver I've been designing / writing for FreeBSD is starting to shape nicely, except I've hit a problem... The driver needs a 10us delay for the card to carry out some operations, rising to up to 30us delay for others... What's the best way of getting this delay? - I can get the card to generate interrupts or I can wait 10us (for the 30us delay I just have to wait, i.e. there is no irq at the end of the operation). The interrupt fires after every word has been transfered (it uses a 16 bit i/o port)... I'd gather this isn't to hot a thing to do? (causing excessive irq's) - am I better off waiting around in the kernel rather than issuing a sleep() only to be woken up 10us later? If I am better waiting is there a better way to wait? (I can poll the card until it's ready, but it seems a little draconian) - I gather sleep(lbolt) / delay are all tied to the 100hz 'tick'? Thanks in advance for any advice (apart from: Dump the card ;-) Regards, Karl Pielorz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 12:52:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p3.tfs.net [139.146.210.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16342 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:52:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA11770 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:52:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808181952.OAA11770@unix.tfs.net> Subject: proposal to not change time_t To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:52:17 -0500 (CDT) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i am making a proposal here to not change time_t. what i would like to propose here is to create alternate, look-alike functions. for example [names subject to discussion, but keep them close]: typedef long long int64; typedef int64 q_time_t; q_time_t q_time(q_time_t); etc... this could be a way of providing 64-bit time functionality that could be later #define'd to be time_t and time(), etc, at the inevitable point at which the move is made by the rest of the industry. an appropriate counter and ioctl could be added to the kern without too much of a hassle, i would imagine. adding the functionality like this will not impact existing apps, as a seperate interface would be in use. it would be nice to be the first major unix to actually claim immunity to the 2039 flaw. bsd has a illustrious history of setting the standard. let's do it again. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 13:06:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18186 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com (gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18181 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:06:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com; id PAA25484; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:03:13 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com( 151.145.101.160) by gatewayb via smap (V2.1) id xma025454; Tue, 18 Aug 98 15:03:12 -0500 Received: by stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:04:54 +0100 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177663C@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: VFS interface Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:05:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anyone tell me where _DETAILED_ information on the BSD VFS interface can be had? I have all the standard texts but they're very vague and general. I need to know specifically how to register a filesystem at mount time and how to complete VOP_ calls. The man pages on this are quite incomplete. I'd love to fix them :-) Matthew Alton Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration (314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com alton@plantnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 13:09:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18633 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA23426; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdW23416; Tue Aug 18 19:57:20 1998 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Karl Pielorz cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High? Latency device-driver with no IRQ's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Karl Pielorz wrote: > > Hi All, > > The device driver I've been designing / writing for FreeBSD is starting to > shape nicely, except I've hit a problem... > > The driver needs a 10us delay for the card to carry out some operations, > rising to up to 30us delay for others... use DELAY(30); > > What's the best way of getting this delay? - I can get the card to > generate interrupts or I can wait 10us (for the 30us delay I just have to > wait, i.e. there is no irq at the end of the operation). don't use interrupts for this.. I presume that the this is not a permanent series of 30uSec delays, but once per transaction, and that after the transaction, you can return to the user.. > > The interrupt fires after every word has been transfered (it uses a 16 > bit i/o port)... I'd gather this isn't to hot a thing to do? (causing > excessive irq's) - you are corrct, but we need more info. like: how often is there data to be read, how much is available at a time? does it come in bursts? how much buffering is there on the card? how long does it take to service the card if it has full buffers? etc. etc. > am I better off waiting around in the kernel rather > than issuing a sleep() only to be woken up 10us later? Sleep will probably not have the granularity you want (sleep is in 10mSec units) (usually) > > If I am better waiting is there a better way to wait? (I can poll the card > until it's ready, but it seems a little draconian) - I gather sleep(lbolt) > / delay are all tied to the 100hz 'tick'? tell us more.. you may be able to use "aquire_timer0()" to give yourself a 20KHz polling clock.. > > Thanks in advance for any advice (apart from: Dump the card ;-) > > Regards, > > Karl Pielorz > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 13:37:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21990 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:37:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54] helo=demios.scl.ameslab.gov) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0z8sQs-0006lF-00; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:32:42 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:36:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Guy Helmer To: "Alton, Matthew" cc: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177663A@STLABCEXG011> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote: > Has anybody taken a look at the possibility of porting Beowulf > http://www.beowulf.org > to FreeBSD? Or are we clustering like the very wind our own selves someplace? The basic message-passing software on which parallel processing applications are typically built, MPI (e.g. MPICH or LAM implementations) or PVM, ought to work on FreeBSD (I've personally used MPICH on FreeBSD). I haven't personally needed for some of the Beowulf enhancements (Ethernet "channel bonding", vm pre-pager), although the unified PID space would be useful, and FreeBSD has kernel support for reading the Pentium performance counters. The biggest objection I've heard to using FreeBSD for parallel processing clusters was the lack of a FreeBSD version of a certain commercial Fortran compiler. FreeBSD (with net.inet.tcp.delack_enabled=0 in 3.0-current) ought to have better network performance over the entire spectrum of message sizes than Linux 2.0.x, so I want to see whether this has an observable effect on parallel apps. Guy Helmer, Graduate Student, Iowa State University Dept. of Computer Science Research Assistant, Ames Laboratory --- ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 13:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22601 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07741; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd007703; Tue Aug 18 13:40:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28432; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:40:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808182040.NAA28432@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:40:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808181952.OAA11770@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 18, 98 02:52:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i am making a proposal here to not change time_t. > > what i would like to propose here is to create alternate, look-alike > functions. [ ... ] > it would be nice to be the first major unix to actually claim immunity > to the 2039 flaw. bsd has a illustrious history of setting the > standard. let's do it again. How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store nanoseconds? Ie: how do you plan to deal with disk files created after 2039? How do you plan to deal with Linux EXT2FS and other FS's that failed to consider the issue in their design in the first place? You can't claim compliance fo something you don't control; you have to simply note it as an exception. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 14:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27124 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from digi.digiware.nl (gtw.digiware.nl [194.151.72.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27114 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjw@digi.digiware.nl) Received: by digi.digiware.nl (8.8.7/1.63) id VAA17496; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:13:31 GMT From: wjw@digi.digiware.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) Message-Id: <199808182113.VAA17496@digi.digiware.nl> Subject: Re: Getting a new syscall to work In-Reply-To: <199808170559.WAA20804@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 17, 98 05:59:32 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: wjw@digiware.nl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG => > I've followed most all of the receipe which was given by Eric A. Davis => > to add a systemcall. But now I'm all out of idea's: => > => > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "___nsysctl" called from testnsysctl:/usr/lib/libc.so.3.2 at 0x200857d8 => > (I bumped the minor number.) => > => > I've looked in the running kernel with nm: => > f0124c4c T ___nsysctl => > f01241a0 F nsysctl.o => > => > So as far I know, things should be working. => > But they don't, so can somebody give me a new pointer => => You must put it in the libc as well as in the kernel. => => If you know the number, a good developement stopgap would be to call => syscall(2) with the number as the first argument, the calls first => argument as the second argument, etc.. Very good suggestion. I should have thought of it myself. Proves that I have the call in the kernel, and that the pilot-error is libc. thanx, --WjW To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 14:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29112 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29103 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA17884; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:28:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:28:10 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Terry Lambert cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808182040.NAA28432@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG don't we all have to bite the bullet and newfs every so often? ;) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ > How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp > for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended > to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store > nanoseconds? > > Ie: how do you plan to deal with disk files created after 2039? > > > How do you plan to deal with Linux EXT2FS and other FS's that > failed to consider the issue in their design in the first place? > You can't claim compliance fo something you don't control; you > have to simply note it as an exception. > > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 15:22:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vip.consys.com (Comobabi.ConSys.COM [209.141.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12787 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcarter@pinyon.org) Received: (from pinyon@localhost) by vip.consys.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14610; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:21:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:21:50 -0700 (MST) From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199808182221.PAA14610@vip.consys.com> To: ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG |The biggest objection I've heard to using FreeBSD for parallel processing |clusters was the lack of a FreeBSD version of a certain commercial Fortran |compiler. FreeBSD (with net.inet.tcp.delack_enabled=0 in 3.0-current) |ought to have better network performance over the entire spectrum of |message sizes than Linux 2.0.x, so I want to see whether this has an |observable effect on parallel apps. The NAS Parallel Benchmarks are quite network intensive, there may be numbers for "Beowulf" clusters by now. There weren't when I was running on the DAISy cluster at Sandia (which ran FreeBSD at the time, '94-95). The DAISy numbers I measured for these were the best price/performance of *any* system at the time. Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 15:39:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17690 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22826; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022702; Tue Aug 18 15:38:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06746; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:38:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808182238.PAA06746@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: bright@www.hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:38:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at Aug 18, 98 05:28:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > don't we all have to bite the bullet and newfs every so often? ;) No. Never. The Implementors knew what the hell they were doing; it is "our" idiocy that has fouled up the spare fields. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 16:31:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27640 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27570; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199808182330.QAA27570@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers In-Reply-To: from Guy Helmer at "Aug 18, 98 03:36:57 pm" To: ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov (Guy Helmer) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Guy Helmer wrote: > On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote: > > > Has anybody taken a look at the possibility of porting Beowulf > > http://www.beowulf.org > > to FreeBSD? Or are we clustering like the very wind our own selves someplace? > > The basic message-passing software on which parallel processing > applications are typically built, MPI (e.g. MPICH or LAM implementations) > or PVM, ought to work on FreeBSD (I've personally used MPICH on FreeBSD). > I haven't personally needed for some of the Beowulf enhancements (Ethernet > "channel bonding", vm pre-pager), although the unified PID space would be > useful, and FreeBSD has kernel support for reading the Pentium performance > counters. > > The biggest objection I've heard to using FreeBSD for parallel processing > clusters was the lack of a FreeBSD version of a certain commercial Fortran > compiler. FreeBSD (with net.inet.tcp.delack_enabled=0 in 3.0-current) > ought to have better network performance over the entire spectrum of > message sizes than Linux 2.0.x, so I want to see whether this has an > observable effect on parallel apps. please look at Ron Minnich's webpages at www.sarnoff.com:8000/docs/metacomputing.html and his paper during the FreeNIX track at this summers USENIX. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:13:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:13:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05725; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04218; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:12:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199808190012.RAA04218@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov (Guy Helmer), Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:30:46 PDT." <199808182330.QAA27570@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:12:45 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG And if you look carefully at the web page Ron Minnich appears to float right next to his 64 FreeBSD processors 8) I am curious as to why Ron is using linux :( Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:15:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06264; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199808190015.RAA06264@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: lists dead? In-Reply-To: <199808150222.VAA03399@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Aug 14, 98 09:22:03 pm" To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rotel@indigo.ie, tlambert@primenet.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >>> i you need to test the lists subscribe and send mail to > >>> test@freebsd.org. not the regular lists. this message > >>> now appears in the archives ;( > >> Unfortunately, there's no way to bail out of a "DATA" command. > > ^]q? > > Add X-Loop: to the headers? very good idea! X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG is the string jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:37:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10775 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from couatl.uchicago.edu (couatl.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10760 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@couatl.uchicago.edu) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by couatl.uchicago.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA00687; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:36:36 -0500 (CDT) To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? References: From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 18 Aug 1998 19:36:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Matthew N. Dodd"'s message of "Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:21:46 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: <877m05byej.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: > Apache 1.3 uses MMAP to send static content. > > I assume this is what sendfile() would do. > > The fact that Apache already has this feature, without the > abstracting API would indicate that such a thing would be worth it > no? The argument (in linux kernel) was something like that mmap has a lot of overhead, and that a specific sendfile could be better optimized... http://linux.ucs.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9806.3/0171.html worth looking at: http://linux.ucs.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9806.3/0305.html The discussion is roughly hereish -- need to search around for thread implementations and sendfile: http://linux.ucs.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9806.3/index.html (not that i've been reading linux-kernel or anything ;-) -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11188 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11122; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199808190038.RAA11122@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers In-Reply-To: <199808190012.RAA04218@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Aug 18, 98 05:12:45 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > And if you look carefully at the web page Ron Minnich appears to float right > next to his 64 FreeBSD processors 8) > > I am curious as to why Ron is using linux :( > > Cheers, > Amancio > its okay. he's using both. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11113; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19596; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808190020.RAA19596@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov (Guy Helmer), Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:20:12 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:12:45 -0700 Amancio Hasty wrote: > And if you look carefully at the web page Ron Minnich appears to float right > next to his 64 FreeBSD processors 8) > > I am curious as to why Ron is using linux :( I believe he recently installed NetBSD on some of his Alphas :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:40:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11991 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:40:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11968 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02321; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:39:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35DA1EDB.5D0E324F@tdx.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:39:55 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High? Latency device-driver with no IRQ's? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > re: 30us delay... > > I presume that the this is not a permanent series of 30uSec delays, but > once per transaction, and that after the transaction, you can return to > the user.. The 30usec delays only happen when you change the card's configuration from one mode to another, this is pretty rare... > > > > The interrupt fires after every word has been transfered (it uses a 16 > > bit i/o port)... I'd gather this isn't to hot a thing to do? (causing > > excessive irq's) - > you are corrct, but we need more info. > like: > > how often is there data to be read, Flat out the card can aquire 2 bytes every 10us... I don't intend to use this 'simple' mode to read it at that rate though :-) > how much is available at a time? 2 bytes... :-( > does it come in bursts? Nope... > how much buffering is there on the card? None... (apart from a simple 2 byte latch) > how long does it take to service the card if it has full buffers? No buffers :-( > > am I better off waiting around in the kernel rather > > than issuing a sleep() only to be woken up 10us later? > > Sleep will probably not have the granularity you want > (sleep is in 10mSec units) (usually) I didn't think it would have... > tell us more.. > you may be able to use "aquire_timer0()" > to give yourself a 20KHz polling clock.. The stuff I'm working on at the moment pulls unbuffered samples off the card. The sequence goes: User process calls read() Write to the 'start' register... (10us delay) Data is ready and DATA_VALID (another register) get's set. Read 2 bytes from the card. Back to userland... -or- you can have: User process calls read() Write to the 'start' register... (10us delay) IRQ Generated & DATA_VALID get's set. Read 2 bytes from the card. Back to userland... This is the simplest mode the driver will run in. The card does support DMA - but I'm only just starting out writing drivers etc. at the moment, so I'd planned to 'keep it simple' for the first version - Hence I'm looking for the best way to handle the above... Someone here has suggest I move all the hanging around to userland, and either get the user process to wait 10us between reads, or provide some sort of ioctl interface for polling whether the next sample is ready... At the end of the day I would like to keep it the way it is at the moment as you can then do: cat /dev/daqb0 And just read the samples as they come in... Thanks for your help, Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 17:55:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14618 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40322>; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:54:12 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:54:27 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Aug19.105412est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:52:17 -0500 (CDT), Jim Bryant wrote: >what i would like to propose here is to create alternate, look-alike >functions. Note that time() is not a system call, it's a library function calling gettimeofday(2). And struct timeval (which gettimeofday() uses) uses longs rather than time_t. (I don't have a -current handy, so I'm not quite sure how the transition from struct timeval to struct timespec is handled). Overall, I don't believe that creating a new interface using a new q_time_t is warranted. BSD managed to change off_t from 32-bits to 64-bits without breaking everything. It should be possible to similarly change time_t. On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:40:15 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert wrote: >How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp >for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended >to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store >nanoseconds? One solution would be to add a creation time to the superblock (I think struct fs has still got free space) and then just store offsets from that creation time in the disk inodes (which are the critical structure, size-wise). The times in struct stat would be the sum of the fs_creat time and the relevant times in the disk inode. Whether struct inode contains a 32-bit or 64-bit seconds counter would depend on the relative efficiency/convenience of inode <-> dinode mapping vs inode time updating (and stat()ing). If the unused parts of the superblock are zero-filled, existing filesystems won't need updating immediately to be compatible with the changed definition. Storing the creation time as seconds only would mean that you don't need to add/subtract the tv_nsec fields (which is particularly messy because it wraps at an inconvenient 0x3b9aca00). This approach does mean that a filesystem won't last more than 69 years, but that seems adequate. A timestamp update tool would be trivial to write, but will need exclusive access to a partition for the time to read/write all the inodes (about the same as an fsck takes now). For a somewhat higher cost (and with kernel assistance), it should be possible to build a tool that can update the `fs_creat' and all associated inode timestamps for an active filesystem. Alternatively, do we really need nsec timestamps in inodes? We could store a 64-bit seconds timestamp in the inode and have SYS_stat() map it to a struct timespec with a zero tv_nsec. (Less convenient options which address the make's difficulties in chronologically ordering rapidly created files would be to use a 64-bit fixed-point number with 8, 16 or even 24 fractional bits). Peter == Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 18:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d4.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16284; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:04:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01340; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:58 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808181801.SAA01340@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jason Thorpe cc: Amancio Hasty , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov (Guy Helmer), Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DIY Supercomputers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:20:12 MST." <199808190020.RAA19596@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:57 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > And if you look carefully at the web page Ron Minnich appears to float right > > next to his 64 FreeBSD processors 8) > > > > I am curious as to why Ron is using linux :( > > I believe he recently installed NetBSD on some of his Alphas :-) He'll be able to junk it soon. We run on Alpha too. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 18:25:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:25:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from umgah.obscurity.net (umgah.obscurity.net [198.88.183.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18461 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lb@umgah.obscurity.net) Received: (from lb@localhost) by umgah.obscurity.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00414; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:24:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from lb) Message-ID: <19980818202442.13894@obscurity.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:24:42 -0500 From: lb To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: An odd crash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Organization: Molebat Heavy Industries Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there. I've run FreeBSD a few years now, and it's been wonderfully stable (save when I was attacked a few times -- oh well :) ... But today it seemed to die "on its own" -- while I was using tin, doing *nothing* to provoke it as best I could tell... this is all I saw in my logs, before the box died: Aug 18 10:08:02 umgah /kernel: FIOASYNC Aug 18 10:11:18 umgah /kernel: FIOASYNC Aug 18 10:11:19 umgah /kernel: timeout flushing dbuf_out, chan 1 cnt 0xa44 4 flags 0x00000041 ... it locked up, but did not reboot... video froze, keyboard froze (I could not hit numlock to toggle my lights, etc) ... no network interactions did anything -- couldn't ping it. Someone suggested I mail this here, and that perhaps someone could explain to me what this means/what might cause it. Incidental information: this is a 2.2.6-RELEASE box with luigi's pnp mods. (Soon to be upgraded, don't smack me :) lb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 19:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as2-p88.tfs.net [139.146.205.88] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26409 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA12243; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:09:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808190209.VAA12243@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808182040.NAA28432@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 18, 98 08:40:15 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:09:59 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > > i am making a proposal here to not change time_t. > > > > what i would like to propose here is to create alternate, look-alike > > functions. > > [ ... ] > > > it would be nice to be the first major unix to actually claim immunity > > to the 2039 flaw. bsd has a illustrious history of setting the > > standard. let's do it again. > > How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp > for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended > to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store > nanoseconds? > > Ie: how do you plan to deal with disk files created after 2039? terry: simple. as i have been told in the past, i must remind you. if you can't handle change, then don't run -current. doing alternate similar time structures and having identical functions with different names and arg sizeof is only a first, but necessary step on the path to doing this. there are a lot of things tied to a int32 time_t, so the preliminary work must be done, so as not to create a bigger kludge than it should take. this is a intermediate step so that filesystems can be developed, so that standard utilities and programs can be migrated with as little pain as possible. and so that developers and end-users can start having time-issue-free user data immediately. when a decision is made for real migration, #define's can be used as an interim kludge to port EXISTING time_t code without code changes. conversion utilities would be simple. time_t cannot, as some i have seen suggesting, be changed ad-hoc. with your experience, i would think you would recognize this in my posting. the freebsd user base may not be that big compared to others, but it is still a user base. if we don't set the standard now, linux will, or maybe netbsd... the point is to set the standard by which all others are measured. it's important to solve the problem now, while so much attention is being focused on the y2k thing, rather than merely waiting until 2037 or 2038 to do anything about it. face it terry, not many of us will still be around to cash in on that like the old-timers are on the y2k issue that they caused. honestly, i know you are proactive in some of your ideas, so let's focus on what must be done to solve the problem before the rest of the unix industry even thinks about it. face it, we do not have the installed base of say linux, and i'll lay odds that if we move now, we can beat them to the punch for that very reason. the commercial interests are already planning for a big waste of money again when the time_t deadline gets close. it would be poetic to create the standard nearly fourty years before they are planning to do anything about it. think of all the productivity that would not be lost, and all of the money not being wasted on something that has the momentum to be fixed right now. now back on the original subject. now that i have thought about it, the "q_" would be a pain in the ass to type making it unpopular with most developers. a better way would be like: typedef long long int64; typedef int64 time64_t; time39_t time64(time64_t t); etc... jordan: what do you say? it's only a matter of time before ansi reconvenes a committee for c. we are actually coming up on the average time before major revisions of language standards are usually talked about anyhow. wouldn't it be neat to set the "current practice"? history shows us that ansi language committees generally follow ten to fifteen year cycles. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 19:36:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as2-p88.tfs.net [139.146.205.88] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29631 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA12287; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:35:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <98Aug19.105412est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> from Peter Jeremy at "Aug 19, 98 10:54:27 am" To: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:35:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > Overall, I don't believe that creating a new interface using a new > q_time_t is warranted. BSD managed to change off_t from 32-bits to > 64-bits without breaking everything. It should be possible to > similarly change time_t. actually it isn't that it would be hard to do in one fell swoop, it's that hundreds of thousands of user apps would also break from this kind of fundamental change. if you work at alcatel, you no doubt understand how much of a pain a fell-swoop approach to time related problems really is dealing with y2k issues. with slices, a simple change was made. with threading, a minor, but irritating change was made. with time_t, people would jump out of windows if the change was really sudden. off_t was a breeze compared to all that is involved with changing time_t. ask your neighbor about y2k, watch how paranoid he gets. the general public is getting quietly paranoid about the y2k problem. we have 40 years to solve the time_t problem, let's do it now, but we don't have to do it in one fell swoop. fundamental change will always be met with opposition. conversion would be best done in steps. if we do it now, it is likely that our method could be adopted by the large commercial unix companies out there, say five or ten years from now, sooner if they want to stay ahead of Mickey$oft. i'm just surprised the csrg didn't do this. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 20:21:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06838 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:21:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06830 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:21:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03250; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:19:17 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808182019.UAA03250@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Karl Pielorz cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High? Latency device-driver with no IRQ's? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:08:36 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:19:16 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The device driver I've been designing / writing for FreeBSD is starting to > shape nicely, except I've hit a problem... > > The driver needs a 10us delay for the card to carry out some operations, > rising to up to 30us delay for others... > > What's the best way of getting this delay? - I can get the card to > generate interrupts or I can wait 10us (for the 30us delay I just have to > wait, i.e. there is no irq at the end of the operation). Use DELAY() if you can't guarantee an interrupt. > The interrupt fires after every word has been transfered (it uses a 16 > bit i/o port)... I'd gather this isn't to hot a thing to do? (causing > excessive irq's) - am I better off waiting around in the kernel rather > than issuing a sleep() only to be woken up 10us later? It depends on how much data you're moving. If you're moving more than a few of these words, then a fast interrupt handler is probably the way to go. In the ISA context, you can use a 'fast' fast interrupt handler. However, 10us is awfully fast; you will have to tune things pretty tightly to get 100kinterrupts/sec. > If I am better waiting is there a better way to wait? (I can poll the card > until it's ready, but it seems a little draconian) - I gather sleep(lbolt) > / delay are all tied to the 100hz 'tick'? Yes. > Thanks in advance for any advice (apart from: Dump the card ;-) It's snot, that's for sure. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 20:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10121 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-107.camalott.com [208.229.74.107]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18952; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:42:20 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12395; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:40:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:40:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808190340.WAA12395@detlev.UUCP> To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net CC: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> (message from Jim Bryant on Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:35:36 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > actually it isn't that it would be hard to do in one fell swoop, it's > that hundreds of thousands of user apps would also break from this > kind of fundamental change. if you work at alcatel, you no doubt > understand how much of a pain a fell-swoop approach to time related > problems really is dealing with y2k issues. Then there is the idea that I think most Unixers have had. Are there any standards which define time_t as a 32-bit value? If so, then changing it would be a mistake anyway. If not, then consider the following more natural transition: I suspect in the next 40 years, most of us are likely to move to a 64-bit machine. At that time, we will have to recompile everything anyway, and it will be a good time to go to 64-bit time_t's. I expect that it would be a very natural transition, and won't break machines which dump time_t's into int's (lots of them, I expect), etc, etc. My biggest concerns are the filesystem, and network protocols which define a 32-bit time value. What was the idea with using the reserved bits for ns precision anyway? Can we dike it back out? > ask your neighbor about y2k, watch how paranoid he gets. the general > public is getting quietly paranoid about the y2k problem. Quietly? I hear about it constantly. I presently make the joke with users about their mousepads not being y2k compliant. I think most of them realize it's a joke... > we have 40 years to solve the time_t problem, let's do it now, but we > don't have to do it in one fell swoop. fundamental change will always > be met with opposition. Since there is going to be one fell swoop fairly soon here, I'm not that concerned about it. > i'm just surprised the csrg didn't do this. I would assume that they had the same general feeling as I did. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 20:45:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10889 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id DAA25286; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:59:09 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808190159.DAA25286@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: An odd crash To: lb@enteract.com (lb) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:59:09 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980818202442.13894@obscurity.net> from "lb" at Aug 18, 98 08:24:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi there. I've run FreeBSD a few years now, and it's been wonderfully > stable (save when I was attacked a few times -- oh well :) ... But > today it seemed to die "on its own" -- while I was using tin, doing > *nothing* to provoke it as best I could tell... this is all I saw in > my logs, before the box died: > Aug 18 10:08:02 umgah /kernel: FIOASYNC > Aug 18 10:11:18 umgah /kernel: FIOASYNC > Aug 18 10:11:19 umgah /kernel: timeout flushing dbuf_out, chan 1 cnt 0xa44 > 4 flags 0x00000041 these are audio-related messages, but they should really do no harm (what application were you using ?) and besides they are 3 minutes apart so i doubt they are the reason of the crash. i think you should try to re[produce the problem to undestand what happened... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 21:26:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16232 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16227 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15254; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015234; Tue Aug 18 21:25:30 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA29417; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:25:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808190425.VAA29417@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:25:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <98Aug19.105412est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> from "Peter Jeremy" at Aug 19, 98 10:54:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp > >for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended > >to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store > >nanoseconds? > > One solution would be to add a creation time to the superblock (I > think struct fs has still got free space) and then just store offsets > from that creation time in the disk inodes (which are the critical > structure, size-wise). The times in struct stat would be the sum of > the fs_creat time and the relevant times in the disk inode. Har. And then I use backup/restore, and everything goes to hell. There is no choice but to put things back the way they were intended, IMO. Anything short of that (or a newfs, if that's refused) is really just taking another problem in lieu of the existing one. A sliding window, in other words, is not an option. > Whether > struct inode contains a 32-bit or 64-bit seconds counter would depend > on the relative efficiency/convenience of inode <-> dinode mapping > vs inode time updating (and stat()ing). If the unused parts of the > superblock are zero-filled, existing filesystems won't need updating > immediately to be compatible with the changed definition. Efficiency is not an issue, as of 2038, so long as there are tar files sufficient far in the past existant. > Storing the creation time as seconds only would mean that you don't need > to add/subtract the tv_nsec fields (which is particularly messy because > it wraps at an inconvenient 0x3b9aca00). The amount of relative time_t math based on the superblock values more than makes up for the storage requirements. Consider a full system restore onto a newly created FS. Existing archive formats don't have this relative offset stored. > This approach does mean that a filesystem won't last more than 69 > years, but that seems adequate. So did a two character date field, and a 2038 limit, when the issues were first originated. 8-). > A timestamp update tool would be > trivial to write, but will need exclusive access to a partition for > the time to read/write all the inodes (about the same as an fsck takes > now). For a somewhat higher cost (and with kernel assistance), it > should be possible to build a tool that can update the `fs_creat' and > all associated inode timestamps for an active filesystem. How can you tell the difference between an updated and a non-updated value if you carsh during update? Format conversion tools are always problematic, in that they need to synchronously log their progress. 8-(. > Alternatively, do we really need nsec timestamps in inodes? No, we don't. This was my point: this is a pure FreeBSD'ism, and has nothing to do with POSIX requirements (the fields are spare fields according to the POSIX spec, and reseerved for the upper 32 bits of a second counter in 2038, according the the design documents. Someone wanted nanosecond timing, and stole them from us... 8-(. > store a 64-bit seconds timestamp in the inode and have SYS_stat() map > it to a struct timespec with a zero tv_nsec. (Less convenient options > which address the make's difficulties in chronologically ordering > rapidly created files would be to use a 64-bit fixed-point number with > 8, 16 or even 24 fractional bits). This was my opinion on subsecond resoloution: thre are 8 bytes free to be used for that, if someone can show some utility. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 22:03:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19715 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04046; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:02:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004027; Tue Aug 18 22:02:25 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA01835; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:02:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808190502.WAA01835@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:02:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199808190209.VAA12243@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 18, 98 09:09:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > How do you propose to deal with the fact that the file timestamp > > for FFS is a 32 bit value, and the spare fields that were intended > > to be used to resolve the 2039 bug have been stolen to store > > nanoseconds? > > > > Ie: how do you plan to deal with disk files created after 2039? > > terry: simple. > > as i have been told in the past, i must remind you. if you can't > handle change, then don't run -current. This is really unacceptable. We have "nanosecond" resolution on timestamps (read the code to understand the quotes) for no good reason, and now we must modify inodes to go from 128 to 256 bytes for the bad reason of maintaining the nanosecond hack. > doing alternate similar time structures and having identical functions > with different names and arg sizeof is only a first, but necessary > step on the path to doing this. there are a lot of things tied to a > int32 time_t, so the preliminary work must be done, so as not to create > a bigger kludge than it should take. The FS is the big limiter. It was designed with this in mind (the spare fields are in the right byte order, and are zero'ed, prior to the nanosecond hack). You could argue that there are a lot of things tied to a lot of things, but this is no argument for stasis, nor is it an argument for unnecessary change above and beyond the necessary minimum. > this is a intermediate step so that filesystems can be developed, so > that standard utilities and programs can be migrated with as little > pain as possible. and so that developers and end-users can start > having time-issue-free user data immediately. This is a bad answer: "we're vulnerable, but we're working on it". >From what I can tell, very little new FS work (that has been committed to a BSD tree) has occurred since the initial integration of the Heidemann code was hurridly accomplished to beat a consent degree deadline. This is work on new FS's, though one has to admit that the infrastructure has suffered. Even old FS's, such as NULLFS, do not work. Some FS's are so obvious in their non-functionality that they are in fact diked out -- like LFS. So pardon me if I greet your optimism about an FS saviour just on the horizon with luke warm enthusiasm. > when a decision is made for real migration, #define's can be used as > an interim kludge to port EXISTING time_t code without code changes. The existing time_t is not a problem. The existing time_t is 32 bits. A 64 bit time_t is only a problem because the fields reserved for a 64 bit time_t were stolen. Recover them! They are stolen propery! They *belong* to time_t! > conversion utilities would be simple. The only person I have seen consistently pull monkeys from his butt lately is Loqui Chen. His contributions have been incisive, brilliant, and to the point, even if he occasionally makes mistakes (the one I saw was a mistake of omission that took Kirk McKusick to catch). My point in this observation is to answer "conversion utilities would be simple" with "yeah, and monkeys will fly out my butt". I have worked on in-place conversion tools, and I have been associated with projects that actually implemented them, and projects which contemplated implementing them. They are a royal bitch to get right. You not only have all of the normal state to deal with, but you have the conversion state to deal with as well; and unlike normal state, no one reserved space anywhere for the storage of conversion state. No thank you! > time_t cannot, as some i have seen suggesting, be changed ad-hoc. > with your experience, i would think you would recognize this in my > posting. Certainly *not* ad-hoc. But transparently to the extent that existing applications will continue to function, and the system and the associated utilities, and any new applications will not suffer the 2039 bug which existing applications will have to deal with until they are recompiled. > the freebsd user base may not be that big compared to others, but it > is still a user base. Which lived through omount, ostat, issetgid, unmapping page zero, the directory entry flags field split, a conversion to shared libraries, a conversion from native to BIOS-based boot blocks, and, perhaps most relevent to this discussion, a conversion from 32 bit to 64 bit off_t. Not to mention a VM system rewrite and the upcoming conversion to ELF... > if we don't set the standard now, linux will, or maybe netbsd... the > point is to set the standard by which all others are measured. NetBSD, not having screwed the pooch on a nanosecond hack, will merely eat the overhead of the 64 bit time_t in the inode, redo the quota structure, and convert the cylinder group and FS "last written" timestamp to monotimes. It will also eat a byte order overhead on architectures with a different byte order, where it screwed up and didn't reorder the spare and time_t fields in the inode to be 64 bit byte-order correct, with low 32 bits for the current time_t in the right place. Big deal. > it's important to solve the problem now, while so much attention is > being focused on the y2k thing, rather than merely waiting until 2037 > or 2038 to do anything about it. face it terry, not many of us will > still be around to cash in on that like the old-timers are on the y2k > issue that they caused. Speak for yourself. Many of the people I know fully expect to live a very, very, very long time, and thus live with the consequences of near-sighted decisions. On a strict linear projection (invalid, because the curve is historically exponential), human life expectancy will be going up one year per year in 2029. > honestly, i know you are proactive in some of your ideas, so let's > focus on what must be done to solve the problem before the rest of the > unix industry even thinks about it. face it, we do not have the > installed base of say linux, and i'll lay odds that if we move now, we > can beat them to the punch for that very reason. 1) Unbugger the nanosecond hack. 2) Redo (or temporarily disable) the quota code. 3) Change the cg and supperblock timestamps from time_t to monotime32_t. 4) Macro wrap all time_t accesses, taking into account byte order and existing sparing issues. 5) Define a manifest constant, because the CPP is too stupid to handle "#ifdef (sizeof(x) == 32)" because the preprocessor doesn't do what it's documentation says, and some lame-o put the sizeof() preprocessor directive into the compiler. 6) Rename time_t to xtime_t temporarily and compile the world with all warnings on. Everywhere it complains about time_t, put the reference macro. 7) Rename xtime_t to time_t. Repeat the process. 8) All time_t dependent system calls must change. Oh wait, that's just stat(2) and fstat(2), and they already have overlay space reserved for use by the declaration macros, once you do #1... 9) Fix third party futilities, as necessary. 10) Rejoice an be happy. > typedef long long int64; > typedef int64 time64_t; > time39_t time64(time64_t t); This is evil. Why not 64 bit everywhere? The only thing I can think of is to preserve a hack with ill-thought-out consequences. 8-(. > it's only a matter of time before ansi reconvenes a committee for c. Surprise. It's under review now. PS: so long as a 64 bit type is atomic, it meets ANSI's requirements. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 22:04:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20083 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:04:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20076 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:04:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04603; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004518; Tue Aug 18 22:03:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA01910; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:03:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:03:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 18, 98 09:35:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > conversion would be best done in steps. if we do it now, it is likely > that our method could be adopted by the large commercial unix > companies out there, say five or ten years from now, sooner if they > want to stay ahead of Mickey$oft. > > i'm just surprised the csrg didn't do this. Like, what, reserving 32 bits adjacent, in the right byte order, in the struct dinode? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 22:13:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:13:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.15.68.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21795 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reilly@zeta.org.au) Received: from zeta.org.au (d66.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.66]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04225 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:10:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 4015 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Aug 1998 02:37:36 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Message-ID: <19980819123736.A3980@reilly.home> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:37:36 +1000 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Chen Hsiung Chan Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dual Celerons - anyone tried this? References: <19980818221129.30050@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpu33a5mca=2Efsf=40skejdbrimir=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_from_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Tue=2C_Aug_18=2C_1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?998_at_03:41:25PM_+0000?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Aug 18, 1998 at 03:41:25PM +0000, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Chen Hsiung Chan writes: > > In the report they mentioned that one can overclock celeron > > to 448MHz, combined with the dual capability, the machine is > > certainly screaming. > > No matter how you shake it, a cache-less CPU does not scream except > from anguish. It does depend a lot on what you're doing. You are probably right if your workload is "make buildworld", but for most multi-media applications L2-cache is not interestingly different from raw DRAM, (because of the data volumes), and the only useful caching performed is that done in function kernels, by the L1-cache. I believe that the Celeron has as much L1-cache as any other processor out there at the moment (more or less). -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 18 23:15:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from barter.dewline.com ([209.208.153.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27902 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mackler@barter.dewline.com) Received: (from mackler@localhost) by barter.dewline.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26143; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:14:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mackler) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808190614.CAA26143@barter.dewline.com> From: Adam Mackler To: Floody , proftpd-l@evcom.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, btman@ugcs.caltech.edu Cc: mackler@barter.dewline.com Subject: Re: [proftpd-l] New ProFTPd user - Security, Incoming and pwd.db? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:50:08 -0400 > From: Floody > Reply-To: proftpd-l@evcom.net > To: Karl Pielorz > Cc: proftpd-l@evcom.net > Subject: Re: [proftpd-l] New ProFTPd user - Security, Incoming and pwd.db? > > Ok. I put up a test FreeBSD 2.2.7 system. There appears to be a libc > problem with the setpassent() function, which doesn't work on FreeBSD as > documented in the man pages (or on any other BSD). This is the heart of > the problem. There is no workaround until libc is fixed. Hi: I think the following patch may fix the problem, but I'm afraid I don't know how to rebuild my c library. If you find out if this works can you let me know? Thanks. *** getpwent.c Wed Aug 19 02:00:13 1998 --- getpwent.c.dist Wed Aug 19 01:58:33 1998 *************** *** 194,201 **** if (rval && (_pw_passwd.pw_name[0] == '+'|| _pw_passwd.pw_name[0] == '-')) rval = 0; ! if (!_pw_stayopen) ! endpwent(); return(rval ? &_pw_passwd : (struct passwd *)NULL); } --- 194,200 ---- if (rval && (_pw_passwd.pw_name[0] == '+'|| _pw_passwd.pw_name[0] == '-')) rval = 0; ! endpwent(); return(rval ? &_pw_passwd : (struct passwd *)NULL); } -- Adam Mackler Dewline Communications, LLC 212-505-9149 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 00:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03488 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03483 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA25420; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:18:53 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:18:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: Remy NONNENMACHER cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199808171803.TAA24662@bsd.synx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Remy NONNENMACHER wrote: > > I think i got the point. Didier sent me a tcpdump trace of the exchange > beetwen the client and the server. The protocol uses a lot of small > packets flowing back and forth, so ack_delayed=1 would be a good thing. > Unfortunetly, sometime (ie, 3 time in the trace), the protocol > encountered the 100 bytes syndrome. Precisely, the application wrote > 163 bytes, the data base replied by 119 bytes and the application wrote > 105 bytes. Here are fragments : > > 13:16:24.147494 1035 > yardsql: P 401:501(100) ack 70 win 17280 > 13:16:24.232584 yardsql > 1035: . ack 501 win 17280 > 13:16:24.232629 1035 > yardsql: P 501:564(63) ack 70 win 17280 > 13:16:24.234125 yardsql > 1035: P 70:170(100) ack 564 win 17280 > 13:16:24.432584 1035 > yardsql: . ack 170 win 17280 > 13:16:24.432624 yardsql > 1035: P 170:193(23) ack 564 win 17280 > 13:16:24.432767 1035 > yardsql: P 564:639(75) ack 193 win 17280 > 13:16:24.433231 yardsql > 1035: P 193:293(100) ack 639 win 17280 > 13:16:24.632595 1035 > yardsql: . ack 293 win 17280 > 13:16:24.632639 yardsql > 1035: P 293:312(19) ack 639 win 17280 > > The 100 byte syndrome caused a bad fragmentation and delayed the whole > transaction by half a second (mean response time for other exchanges > are about 1 milli-second). > > The solution here seems to force the TCP_NODELAY and ack_delayed=1. > Hi, In short, is it a general problem with the tcpip stack on all platforms ? a specific problem to bsd and bsd like tcpip stack ? Is it a bug ? Why is it working with linux ? Yard modified their application to include a TCP_NODELAY. But they have discovered that after a "dup" the TCP_NODELAY flag was lost. Is it the normal behavior for "dup" ? After the modification by Yard of their source code. It's partly working sometimes the system is very fast (like with delayed_ack=0) and sometimes it becomes extremely slow (like with delay_ack=1). I've been able to reproduce the same phemenon by manually toggling delay_ack why the application was running. Do you have any suggestion ? Thanks for your help -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 00:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05181 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p14.tfs.net [139.146.210.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05154 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id CAA19503; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:37:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808190737.CAA19503@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808190502.WAA01835@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 19, 98 05:02:21 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:37:14 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > 1) Unbugger the nanosecond hack. > 2) Redo (or temporarily disable) the quota code. > 3) Change the cg and supperblock timestamps from time_t to > monotime32_t. > 4) Macro wrap all time_t accesses, taking into account byte order > and existing sparing issues. > 5) Define a manifest constant, because the CPP is too stupid to > handle "#ifdef (sizeof(x) == 32)" because the preprocessor > doesn't do what it's documentation says, and some lame-o > put the sizeof() preprocessor directive into the compiler. > 6) Rename time_t to xtime_t temporarily and compile the world > with all warnings on. Everywhere it complains about time_t, > put the reference macro. > 7) Rename xtime_t to time_t. Repeat the process. > 8) All time_t dependent system calls must change. Oh wait, that's > just stat(2) and fstat(2), and they already have overlay space > reserved for use by the declaration macros, once you do #1... > 9) Fix third party futilities, as necessary. > 10) Rejoice an be happy. > > > typedef long long int64; > > typedef int64 time64_t; > > time39_t time64(time64_t t); > > This is evil. Why not 64 bit everywhere? The only thing I can think > of is to preserve a hack with ill-thought-out consequences. 8-(. it may be a kludge, and i have said as much, with the assumption that the inode could indeed be modified further to make a new space for the nano-hack, and retain the upper 32 in the inodes for what it was intended for. the fell-swoop approach is not unprecedented under freebsd. all i am thinking of here is the userland code and DATA out there that will need a more gradual migration. another approach could indeed be the HP route to 64 bits. hp/ux 11.x is in two flavors, 32 and 64 bits. this could be nasty to maintain though, but given new guidelines for new code, it could be done, although kludgy. i have not disputed the fact that the filesystem would have to find a new solution for a finer granularity in order to do the least kludgy transition, and also to be compliant. i would not be against a fell-swoop approach iif existing user data had some way to migrate in advance. maybe have one minor release with the conversion means, and the next 64 bit. this has nothing to do with the filesystem, it would be for the contents of the files in the filesystem. > > it's only a matter of time before ansi reconvenes a committee for c. > > Surprise. It's under review now. > > PS: so long as a 64 bit type is atomic, it meets ANSI's requirements. good guess. this could actually force the issue. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 02:21:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15075 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:21:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15063 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:21:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26652; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:18:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA24197; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:18:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980819111809.A22887@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:18:09 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Terry Lambert , Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? References: <199808171817.LAA06770@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <199808171817.LAA06770@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Aug 17, 1998 at 06:17:34PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-08-17 18:17:34 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > I have no doubt that it would be useful for static pages; I am just not > convinced that pushing the data over a call boundary is the real overhead > here. For an mmap'ed file, the only overhead is the copy from the VM > buffer to the mbuf. The only way such a call could eliminated this > overhead is by passing the VM buffers down as mbuf contents. This can > be done (I did the code for it on the VMS NetWare server), but it's > a lot of work. Who cares about data copy overhead? If the kernel spend 5% of the CPU time in copying, there are still 95% free CPU cycles. Freefall.freebsd.org transfers 20KB/s with a CPU load less than 0.01. http://www.freebsd.org/server-status Server uptime: 5 days 20 hours 26 minutes 44 seconds Total accesses: 1096361 - Total Traffic: 9.9 GB CPU Usage: u.859375 s.828125 cu1.96094 cs.304688 - .000782% CPU load 2.17 requests/sec - 20.6 kB/second - 9.5 kB/request -- Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 02:44:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17406 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08692; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:39:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199808190939.FAA08692@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: High? Latency device-driver with no IRQ's? In-Reply-To: <35DA1EDB.5D0E324F@tdx.co.uk> from Karl Pielorz at "Aug 19, 98 01:39:55 am" To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is the simplest mode the driver will run in. The card does support DMA - > but I'm only just starting out writing drivers etc. at the moment, so I'd > planned to 'keep it simple' for the first version - Hence I'm looking for the > best way to handle the above... > > Someone here has suggest I move all the hanging around to userland, and either > get the user process to wait 10us between reads, or provide some sort of ioctl > interface for polling whether the next sample is ready... The user process can't wait 10us so that won't get you anywhere. Since DELAY will keep the processor busy anyway you may as well poll that ready bit instead of "DELAY(10); poll_ready();". At 10 KHz you could get by with a fast interrupt scheme similar to what I think we have in SIO. Essentially you implement a FIFO in software with a low overhead interrupt stuffing in the FIFO and waking up the kernel part of your blocked user process when you've filled a buffer. Since I assume the data will come in continuously, you have to be prepared to put the data someplace when there is no user process reading. Then if you "dd if=/dev/daqb0 bs=100" you'll only get the heavy duty kernel work done every 50 transactions. This is all for informational purposes, since at the 100 KHz you're talking about you are going to have to make the DMA work because you just aren't going to be able to service that board every 10 us - some other driver is going to be doing your DELAY(30) configuration change and locking you out, etc. Note that you still have to concern yourself with where to put the incoming data when no read is in progress. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 03:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20740 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03274; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:23:45 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:23:44 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "Alton, Matthew" cc: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: VFS interface In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177663C@STLABCEXG011> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote: > Can anyone tell me where _DETAILED_ information on the BSD > VFS interface can be had? I have all the standard texts but > they're very vague and general. I need to know specifically how > to register a filesystem at mount time and how to complete VOP_ > calls. The man pages on this are quite incomplete. I'd love to fix > them :-) The only information that I know of is in the source code. That is what I used to write the man pages in the first place. You would be welcome to continue where I left off with the documentation... -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 03:55:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA22690 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 03:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 24720 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Aug 1998 10:54:48 +0000 (GMT) To: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:18:09 +0200" References: <19980819111809.A22887@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:54:47 +0200 Message-ID: <24718.903524087@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Who cares about data copy overhead? If the kernel spend 5% of the CPU > time in copying, there are still 95% free CPU cycles. Quite a few people care about copy overhead, actually. Read Larry McVoy's splice paper to see why: http://www.bitmover.com/lm/papers/splice.ps.gz Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 05:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:20:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA01676 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA15171; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Jim Bryant cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808190737.CAA19503@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Jim Bryant wrote: > another approach could indeed be the HP route to 64 bits. hp/ux 11.x > is in two flavors, 32 and 64 bits. this could be nasty to maintain > though, but given new guidelines for new code, it could be done, > although kludgy. Don't do this. SGI did this. It's a huge pain in the ass. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 06:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 06:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyber2 (cyber2.servtech.com [199.1.22.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06693 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 06:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Received: from pr-comm.com (prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber2 (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09496 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:07:58 GMT Received: from pr-comm.com (housley@hatchling.int.pr-comm.com [192.168.70.48]) by pr-comm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10232 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:07:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Message-ID: <35DACE2C.BCDA7893@pr-comm.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:07:56 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" Organization: PR Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI Controller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have an ISA/VLB machine I need to put a SCSI controller for a HP DAT drive. I have seen messages about problems with some Adaptec card drivers. My choices are, I believe: Buslogic 445S/445c VLB Adaptec 1542 ISA Adaptec 274x/284x/2940/2940U/3940 VLB Are any of these more stable than others in 2.2.7-STABLE line of code. Thanks Jim -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D PR Communications, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:11:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA16906 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA11533; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:10:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Julian Elischer cc: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG chuck cranor, see the netbsd vm subsystem, since chuck wrote it. sendfile() is a cover for bad vm/os design. I hope to see someone outrun sendfile with a netbsd running chuck's vm and generic system calls. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:12:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17021 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA16994 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA11539; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:10:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:10:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Marc Slemko cc: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG read between thelines on chuck's thesis and you'll see why it deals with the sendfile() question. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:20:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from backup.zippynet.iol.net.au (af.speednet.com.au [202.135.206.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18386 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from speednet.com.au (zippy.zippynet.iol.net.au [172.22.2.8]) by backup.zippynet.iol.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08927 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:19:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Message-ID: <35DADEE4.8A5CA646@speednet.com.au> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:19:16 +1000 From: Andy Farkas Organization: Speed Internet Sevices X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TMC-950 scsi card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card (labeled 'MSC-08') that I would like to use to drive an old Archive 2525S tape backup unit. Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? -- :{ andyf@speednet.com.au Andy Farkas System Administrator Speed Internet Services http://www.speednet.com.au/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18610 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24795 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21799 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:20:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.cybercom.net: ksmm owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:20:16 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive X-Sender: ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808182238.PAA06746@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: : > don't we all have to bite the bullet and newfs every so often? ;) : : No. Never. The Implementors knew what the hell they were doing; : it is "our" idiocy that has fouled up the spare fields. Sounds like all the more reason to bite the bullet to me. :-) "The Implementors knew what they were doing"...sounds like a line from a classic Star Trek episode. :-) K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18999 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA18986 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@synx.com) Received: from synx.com (rn [192.1.1.241]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28280; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:22:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199808191422.PAA28280@bsd.synx.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:22:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Remy NONNENMACHER Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD Problem (fwd) To: didier@omnix.net cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19 Aug, Didier Derny wrote: > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Remy NONNENMACHER wrote: >> >> I think i got the point. Didier sent me a tcpdump trace of the exchange >> beetwen the client and the server. The protocol uses a lot of small >> packets flowing back and forth, so ack_delayed=1 would be a good thing. >> Unfortunetly, sometime (ie, 3 time in the trace), the protocol >> encountered the 100 bytes syndrome. Precisely, the application wrote >> 163 bytes, the data base replied by 119 bytes and the application wrote >> 105 bytes. Here are fragments : >> >> 13:16:24.147494 1035 > yardsql: P 401:501(100) ack 70 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.232584 yardsql > 1035: . ack 501 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.232629 1035 > yardsql: P 501:564(63) ack 70 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.234125 yardsql > 1035: P 70:170(100) ack 564 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.432584 1035 > yardsql: . ack 170 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.432624 yardsql > 1035: P 170:193(23) ack 564 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.432767 1035 > yardsql: P 564:639(75) ack 193 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.433231 yardsql > 1035: P 193:293(100) ack 639 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.632595 1035 > yardsql: . ack 293 win 17280 >> 13:16:24.632639 yardsql > 1035: P 293:312(19) ack 639 win 17280 >> >> The 100 byte syndrome caused a bad fragmentation and delayed the whole >> transaction by half a second (mean response time for other exchanges >> are about 1 milli-second). >> >> The solution here seems to force the TCP_NODELAY and ack_delayed=1. >> > > Hi, > > In short, is it a general problem with the tcpip stack on all platforms ? > a specific problem to bsd and bsd like tcpip stack ? > Is it a bug ? It's a feature ;). see http://www.kohala.com/~rstevens/vanj.88jul20.txt for a detailed explaination of the origin of this. It affects NetBSD stack also. The idea, behind the stuff, is to reduce data moving inside the kernel, between sosend and tcp_output. Someting like : kern/uipc_socket.c : sosend() . . if (size to send >= MINCLSIZE) { allocate a cluster copy user data in the cluster (MINCLSZE=208 bytes) /* more work must be done by tcp_ouput() */ } else { /* Less work to be done by tcp_output() */ allocate a mbuf with header copy 100 first bytes (128-20-8) allocate a mbuf without header copy up to 108 bytes (128-20) } tcp_output() Well, by now, with all the power we have, and considering the delaying introduced by delayed sending (Nagle) facing a delayed ack, we can seriously consider phasing out this optimization (or, at least, make it sysctl'isable). Bill Fenner (in -net) proposed a fix. Another simple way may be to locate the line if (resid >= MINCLSIZE) in kern/uipc_socket.c, (sosend()), and to change it to : if (resid >= MHLEN) (warning: not tested) All this need a complete review from one of the TCP great ancient god.... > Why is it working with linux ? > I haven't a Linux kernel to check if they uses the same 'optimization' so I can't tell. > Yard modified their application to include a TCP_NODELAY. But > they have discovered that after a "dup" the TCP_NODELAY flag was lost. > Is it the normal behavior for "dup" ? > seems to be a known point. > After the modification by Yard of their source code. It's partly working > sometimes the system is very fast (like with delayed_ack=0) and sometimes > it becomes extremely slow (like with delay_ack=1). > Probably TCP_NODELAY=0 and a 101 to 207 bytes packet. Outside of these limits, the ping/pong exchange will work very well. > I've been able to reproduce the same phemenon by manually toggling > delay_ack why the application was running. > > Do you have any suggestion ? > Fix this by forcing TCP_NODELAY inside the kernel till a review of the sosend 100-208 byte syndrome. Can be done by : (in netinet/tcp_output.c, tcp_output()) change : . if ((idle || tp->t_flags & TF_NODELAY) && . by . if ((idle || 1 || tp->t_flags & TF_NODELAY) && . (horrible no ?) RN. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:42:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21513 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19373 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:43:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:43:09 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sfork()? In-Reply-To: <199808191303.PAA10187@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG can someone explain why this doesn't work? (the child process just segfaults, even without the printfs) ----- CUT #include #include volatile int t=0; int main(void){ pid_t pid; if(pid = rfork(RFPROC | RFMEM)){ printf("(parent)pid = %d\n",pid); while(1){ printf("%d\n",t); sleep(1); } } else { printf("doesn't die here..."); t = 1; printf("changed t... "); sleep(10000); } printf("pid = %d about to exit\n",pid); return(0); } ----- END Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 07:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21588 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cinnamon.michvhf.com (cinnamon.michvhf.com [209.57.60.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21568 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 23209 invoked from network); 19 Aug 1998 14:42:16 -0000 Received: from cinnamon.michvhf.com (209.57.60.10) by cinnamon.michvhf.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 1998 14:42:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:42:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Vince Vielhaber To: Andy Farkas cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-Reply-To: <35DADEE4.8A5CA646@speednet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Andy Farkas wrote: > I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card > (labeled 'MSC-08') that I would like to use to drive an old Archive > 2525S tape backup unit. > > Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? It should already be there unless you removed it. It's the seagate driver sea0. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Searchable Campground Listings http://www.camping-usa.com "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat than the federal government" -- Tony Snow ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 08:16:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27871 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11155; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:15:39 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:15:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: support@yard.de Subject: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm working with Yard (SQL engine) With a Pentium 200MMX I get the same performances with FreeBSD/Yard than with a Pentium II 333 running Linux suse 5.2 exactly the same application. -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 08:18:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28466 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28451 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00649; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:18:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id KAA18099; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:17:35 -0500 Message-ID: <19980819101735.48927@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:17:35 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? References: <199808191303.PAA10187@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Aug 08, 1998 at 10:43:09AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Aug 08, 1998 at 10:43:09AM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > can someone explain why this doesn't work? Look at the -hacker archives, for a message from John Dyson titled "malloc() problems in children after using rfork()", circa Nov 1997. It includes an assembly wrapper around rfork() that is needed to make it work in userland. You apparently also need some assembly code to handle management of the stack; from my understanding, both processes will share the same stack on return from rfork(), and stomp on each other. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 08:19:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28593 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15155; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA20039; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:18:55 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:18:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199808191518.JAA20039@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808190502.WAA01835@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199808190209.VAA12243@unix.tfs.net> <199808190502.WAA01835@usr06.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > for the bad reason of maintaining the nanosecond hack. .... > > when a decision is made for real migration, #define's can be used as > > an interim kludge to port EXISTING time_t code without code changes. > > The existing time_t is not a problem. The existing time_t is 32 bits. > A 64 bit time_t is only a problem because the fields reserved for a > 64 bit time_t were stolen. Recover them! They are stolen propery! > They *belong* to time_t! For what it's worth, the nsec fields in the FS were *stolen* by the very folk that brought us UFS. They are part of Lite2. (I just checked). So, you're whining to the wrong crowd. Go yell at Kirk for awhile, and see what his response is. :) :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 08:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28856 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA23782 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199808191519.IAA23782@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808190737.CAA19503@unix.tfs.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Jim Bryant >Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 02:37:14 -0500 (CDT) >the fell-swoop approach is not unprecedented under freebsd. all i am >thinking of here is the userland code and DATA out there that will >need a more gradual migration. As y'all are considering these things, please do not overlook the issue of archived data (some of which may be in more filesystem-specific formats than others). It *may* be useful for restore (for example) to be able to use rather different notions of the structure of an inode depending on certain criteria (such as a date or a flag, for example). I think expecting folks to restore & re-archive data would be impractical, to put it about as nicely as I can think of. It may well be that by means of such an approach, the effects of the change (with respect to archived data) could be mitigated to "bearable." david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 08:24:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00363 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15209; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA20095; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:23:26 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:23:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > conversion would be best done in steps. if we do it now, it is likely > > that our method could be adopted by the large commercial unix > > companies out there, say five or ten years from now, sooner if they > > want to stay ahead of Mickey$oft. > > > > i'm just surprised the csrg didn't do this. > > Like, what, reserving 32 bits adjacent, in the right byte order, in > the struct dinode? 8-) 8-). See previous reply. You give them too much credit, since they are the same folk who removed the bits with the nanosec additions. Nate ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some of the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 09:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06026 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06021 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA12432; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:00:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:00:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Jonathan Lemon cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? In-Reply-To: <19980819101735.48927@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > You apparently also need some assembly code to handle management > of the stack; from my understanding, both processes will share > the same stack on return from rfork(), and stomp on each other. from the man page: RFMEM ... The stack segment is always split. May be set only with RFPROC. so the stack is not shared from my reading. My rfork() for 2.0.x split the stack to. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 09:17:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07932 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07925 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06764; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:16:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199808191616.MAA06764@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: bright@www.hotjobs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You need to set up separate stack for the child, this cannot be done without any assembly. We need a wrapper function for rfork() in libc. Below is a small test program I wrote a while ago, you may adapt it to your needs if you want. -lq #include #include #include void callfunc(int (*func)(void *), void *arg) { _exit((*func)(arg)); } int rforkcall(void *stack, void *func, void *arg) { register int *sp = (int *)stack; *--sp = (int)arg; *--sp = (int)func; *--sp = 0; *--sp = (int)callfunc; __asm__( "pushl %2;\n\t" "pushl $0;\n\t" "movl %1,%%eax;\n\t" ".byte 0x9a; .long 0; .word 7;\n\t" "cmpl $0, %%edx; je 1f;\n\t" "movl %0,%%esp; ret;\n1:\n\t" "addl $8,%%esp" : : "r" (sp), "g" (SYS_rfork), "g" (RFPROC|RFMEM) : "eax", "edx"); } int n = 0; int a(char *s) { fprintf(stderr, "%s %d\n", s, n++); return 0; } char stack1[4096]; char stack2[4096]; main() { rforkcall(stack1+4096, (void *)a, "thread"); rforkcall(stack2+4096, (void *)a, "thread"); a("main"); } > can someone explain why this doesn't work? > > (the child process just segfaults, even without the printfs) > > ----- CUT > > #include > #include > > volatile int t=0; > > int main(void){ > > pid_t pid; > > if(pid = rfork(RFPROC | RFMEM)){ > printf("(parent)pid = %d\n",pid); > while(1){ > printf("%d\n",t); > sleep(1); > } > } else { > printf("doesn't die here..."); > t = 1; > printf("changed t... "); > sleep(10000); > } > > printf("pid = %d about to exit\n",pid); > return(0); > } > > ----- END > > > Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com > -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. > -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 09:25:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09029 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19769; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:25:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yes, evil evil evil man pages. :) and, actually John Dyson told me about rfork, i thought it was "fixed" though. the argument that rfork shouldn't copy the stack is bogus, as fork does it, and copying the stack in userland sounds silly. (wrapping a call to rfork) what are the implications of doing certain things after the cludged split? what i mean will exit() and other stuff be munged? the wrapper John gave me is interesting (still trying to get it to work, as i'm confused about the arguments) but i _think_ you can't return from your "thread" because the stack just isn't there. are people still working on kernel threads instead of userland threads? Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > You apparently also need some assembly code to handle management > > of the stack; from my understanding, both processes will share > > the same stack on return from rfork(), and stomp on each other. > > from the man page: > > RFMEM ... The stack segment is always split. May be set only with > RFPROC. > > so the stack is not shared from my reading. My rfork() for 2.0.x split > the stack to. > > ron > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 09:51:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA13513 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z9BQd-0003sa-00; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:49:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Wolfram Schneider cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendfile() API? In-Reply-To: <19980819111809.A22887@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > On 1998-08-17 18:17:34 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I have no doubt that it would be useful for static pages; I am just not > > convinced that pushing the data over a call boundary is the real overhead > > here. For an mmap'ed file, the only overhead is the copy from the VM > > buffer to the mbuf. The only way such a call could eliminated this > > overhead is by passing the VM buffers down as mbuf contents. This can > > be done (I did the code for it on the VMS NetWare server), but it's > > a lot of work. > > Who cares about data copy overhead? If the kernel spend 5% of the CPU > time in copying, there are still 95% free CPU cycles. > > Freefall.freebsd.org transfers 20KB/s with a CPU load less > than 0.01. Lots of people do and should care about it. freefall has such a tiny amount of web traffic that you could add an extra dozen copies to the path without it mattering. However, as you scale upwards by a few orders of magnitude, a bottleneck clearly appears on most current systems where you have excessive copying. Not all of this can be reflected in the CPU use of the process. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 09:58:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14649 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA14613 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA12839; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:57:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > yes, evil evil evil man pages. :) > and, actually John Dyson told me about rfork, i thought it was "fixed" > though. OK, now I am lost. I just looked at -current kernel source and see that freebsd rfork does not split the stack. What's funny is my old ca. 1994 rfork for freebsd does split the stack. In fact I now wonder if my design was not somewhat nicer, since it does split the stack and requires no user-land assembly code. I'm still running 16 nodes with that old OS and old rfork and I'm going to not have fun upgrading them with -current rfork ... now what? ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 10:00:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15323 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA260 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:57:54 +0200 Message-ID: <35DB0422.B6447353@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:58:10 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: combined accept&read Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was chatting a little bit with the Zeus developers to ask them how to make FreeBSD the best/fastest platform for them. "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call should be beneifital." They also wish to have a few thousand open fd's without slowing down stuff like get_first_free_fd(). Something like this would also help our Apache friends (and maybe DG-FTP on ftp.cdrom.com) I think ;-). Opinions? -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 10:34:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA22272 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:34:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z9C5o-0004Qa-00; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:32:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: combined accept&read In-Reply-To: <35DB0422.B6447353@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Andre Oppermann wrote: > I was chatting a little bit with the Zeus developers to ask them how > to make FreeBSD the best/fastest platform for them. > > "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very > often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a > socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket > buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call > should be beneifital." Note that this is similar to NT's AcceptEx() call. I'm not fully convinced of how significant the impact of this is on a good architecture. > > They also wish to have a few thousand open fd's without slowing > down stuff like get_first_free_fd(). Yes, whatever you do you need efficient handling of a few thousand fds just for clients. If you can efficiently handle a few thousand more, you can then afford to use a descriptor cache, which looks to be the nicest way to implement a cache if the path from file descriptor to network is short enough. If it isn't, then actually keeping a copy of the data in your userland memory can be an annoying win. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 11:31:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:31:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29909 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:31:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20227; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:32:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:32:09 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net Reply-To: Alfred Perlstein To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG urm, how about a new syscal perhaps? takes an (void *) if null it means copy my stack otherwise it's a pointer to the stack you want the child process to have. this would be a good way to have userland threads pre-emptive instead of co-operative, no? although you won't have global signal handlers... but we could keep a global file descriptor table.. any other problems? big thank you to Luoqi Chen for the help. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > yes, evil evil evil man pages. :) > > and, actually John Dyson told me about rfork, i thought it was "fixed" > > though. > > OK, now I am lost. I just looked at -current kernel source and see that > freebsd rfork does not split the stack. What's funny is my old ca. 1994 > rfork for freebsd does split the stack. In fact I now wonder if my design > was not somewhat nicer, since it does split the stack and requires no > user-land assembly code. I'm still running 16 nodes with that old OS and > old rfork and I'm going to not have fun upgrading them with -current > rfork ... > > now what? > > ron > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 11:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04825 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04814 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.147] (lucky.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.24.147]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA25512; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:53:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <98Aug19.105412est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:57:20 -0400 To: Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:54 AM +1000 8/19/98, Peter Jeremy wrote: > Alternatively, do we really need nsec timestamps in inodes? We could > store a 64-bit seconds timestamp in the inode and have SYS_stat() map > it to a struct timespec with a zero tv_nsec. (Less convenient options > which address the make's difficulties in chronologically ordering > rapidly created files would be to use a 64-bit fixed-point number > with 8, 16 or even 24 fractional bits). I do think it's useful to have time resolution be better than 1 second. At the same time, I would like to put off newfs'ing systems for a new format as long as possible, while still solving the 2039 issue. We currently have the 32-bit time_t, and the 32 bits stolen to give us nanosecond timestamps. Just how weird would it be to make it a 64-bit time field which was 1024'ths of a second? To get a valid time_t (in seconds) you'd have to shift the value a few bits, and you could provide that value in a 64-bit number if you want. It just seems weird to say we need all 64 bits for time_t. Changing time_t to be 48 or 56 bits would put off any problems for a pretty significant number of years, and yet provide us with better time resolution without the spectre of newfs-ing disks. (I just picked 1024'ths of a second because I have a vague recollection of IBM using that for it's STCK (store clock) instruction, but my memory might be playing tricks on me there...) --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 12:08:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09053 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08993 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03657 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:13:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:13:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.4 is out! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am pleased to announce that new release of one-floppy FreeBSD (a.k.a PicoBSD) is now available for download. See http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ for general idea what's this all about, and http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd/ for download. You can find detailed instructions and description in http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd/doc/intro.html What's new in this release? --------------------------- * All PicoBSD floppies now use DEVFS/SLICE code, which eliminates the need to manually create missing device nodes. * Each type of floppy contains the basic set of net utilities such as: ifconfig, route, netstat, ping, traceroute * There is new type of floppy (router) which is able to provide routing services with packet filtering on a 386SX equipped with only 4MB (!) of RAM * Included in PicoBSD Development Kit is a collection of small system utilities (TinyWare), which replace their full-blown counterparts giving you their basic functionality. This includes: netstat, ps, vmstat, sh, dset... * The TinyWare collection includes custom init(8) which allows for running truly minimal system, capable of single & multi-user operation. * The TinyWare collection includes also a console graphics viewer suitable for displaying graphical presentations (ideal for a demo-floppy). * Many, many, many things were updated (such as SSH and SNMPd) and/or fixed, thanks to the comments of FreeBSD community. Thank you - without your help this project would be much less mature... * The whole project now is under CVS, you can also get a copy of CVS repository. In short, I hope that you will enjoy this release of PicoBSD. Have fun! Andrzej Bialecki PS. PicoBSD is fully under BSD license which permits use in non-commercial as well as commercial applications. +---------------------+------------------------+--------------------------+ | | When in problem or in | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { | | Research & Academic | doubt, run in circles, | fetch("FreeBSD"); | | Network in Poland | scream and shout. | } | + --------------------+------------------------+--------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 12:31:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14396 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lohi.clinet.fi (lohi.clinet.fi [194.100.0.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14380 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:30:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hsu@mail.clinet.fi) Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by lohi.clinet.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA16546; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:31:15 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA28807; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:30:13 +0300 (EEST) To: Peter Jeremy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t References: <98Aug19.105412est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au.newsgate.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu Date: 19 Aug 1998 22:30:13 +0300 In-Reply-To: Peter Jeremy's message of 19 Aug 1998 04:57:57 +0300 Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy writes: > One solution would be to add a creation time to the superblock (I > think struct fs has still got free space) and then just store offsets > from that creation time in the disk inodes (which are the critical > structure, size-wise). The times in struct stat would be the sum of > the fs_creat time and the relevant times in the disk inode. Whether > struct inode contains a 32-bit or 64-bit seconds counter would depend > on the relative efficiency/convenience of inode <-> dinode mapping > vs inode time updating (and stat()ing). If the unused parts of the > superblock are zero-filled, existing filesystems won't need updating > immediately to be compatible with the changed definition. There are 1000000000 nanoseconds in a second. Thus the nanosecond value has two high bits which are currently always zero, and could be used to flag various things, like "this is a 62bit second value instead of 32bit second+30bit nanosecond value." -- Heikki Suonsivu / Clinet Oy / Tekniikantie 12 / FI-02150 Espoo / FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 13:15:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:15:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cbgw1.lucent.com (cbgw1.lucent.com [207.24.196.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA21253 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from subhash@csf22.cb.lucent.com) From: subhash@csf22.cb.lucent.com Received: from emsr1.emsr.lucent.com by cbig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id QAA22995; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:12:22 -0400 Received: by emsr1.emsr.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 Solaris/emsr) id QAA20169 for hackers@freebsd.org.smtp; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:14:12 -0400 Received: from csf22.cb.lucent.com by emsr1.emsr.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 Solaris/emsr) id QAA20133 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:14:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 15995 invoked by uid 250); 19 Aug 1998 20:14:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19980819201412.15993.qmail@csf22.cb.lucent.com> Subject: Support for ttsession in FreeBsd To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:14:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I want to find out if there is support for running ToolTalk Applications on a FreeBSD box. I am running current and am trying to run a Solaris Application from a Solaris Server on a FreeBSD Workstation. Thanks, Subhash. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 13:51:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:51:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29248 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05159; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:50:59 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA29042; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:50:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980819225056.17635@follo.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:50:56 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t References: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 09:23:26AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 09:23:26AM -0600, Nate Williams wrote: > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some of > the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) They have most of the userland Lite/2 code, at least. I've not looked at their kernel. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 13:56:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00437 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00389 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA17755; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA22367; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:55:32 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:55:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199808192055.OAA22367@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <19980819225056.17635@follo.net> References: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com> <19980819225056.17635@follo.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some of > > the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) > > They have most of the userland Lite/2 code, at least. I've not looked > at their kernel. The kernel code is what the lawsuit was all about...... Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 15:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12599 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from digi.digiware.nl (gtw.digiware.nl [194.151.72.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12582 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjw@digi.digiware.nl) Received: by digi.digiware.nl (8.8.7/1.63) id WAA24573; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:04:27 GMT From: wjw@digi.digiware.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) Message-Id: <199808192204.WAA24573@digi.digiware.nl> Subject: Re: Getting a new syscall to work In-Reply-To: <199808170559.WAA20804@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 17, 98 05:59:32 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:04:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: wjw@digiware.nl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG => > I've followed most all of the receipe which was given by Eric A. Davis => > to add a systemcall. But now I'm all out of idea's: => > => > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "___nsysctl" called from testnsysctl:/usr/lib/libc.so.3.2 at 0x200857d8 => > (I bumped the minor number.) => > => > I've looked in the running kernel with nm: => > f0124c4c T ___nsysctl => > f01241a0 F nsysctl.o => > => > So as far I know, things should be working. => > But they don't, so can somebody give me a new pointer => => You must put it in the libc as well as in the kernel. (This is on -stable) I've fixed the second problem (libc) as well. Turned out that when you make a new libc, by doing make in /usr/src/lib/libc you not only get the *.o's in the libc dir. But it also uses /usr/include/sys/syscall.h as include directory/file, where I expected it to use /usr/src/sys/sys/syscall.h So now it is on with the sysctl's --WjW To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 15:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20314 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-120.camalott.com [208.229.74.120]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08038; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:47:03 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14775; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:45:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808192245.RAA14775@detlev.UUCP> To: nate@mt.sri.com CC: tlambert@primenet.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com> (message from Nate Williams on Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:23:26 -0600) Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808190235.VAA12287@unix.tfs.net> <199808190503.WAA01910@usr06.primenet.com> <199808191523.JAA20095@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some > of the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) Which reminds me... What OS's out there *are* Lite2-based? Just us and BSD/I? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 15:51:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21357 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:50:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-120.camalott.com [208.229.74.120]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08269; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:51:21 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14808; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:49:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:49:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808192249.RAA14808@detlev.UUCP> To: drosih@rpi.edu CC: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Garance A Drosihn on Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:57:20 -0400) Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Alternatively, do we really need nsec timestamps in inodes? We could >> store a 64-bit seconds timestamp in the inode and have SYS_stat() map >> it to a struct timespec with a zero tv_nsec. (Less convenient options >> which address the make's difficulties in chronologically ordering >> rapidly created files would be to use a 64-bit fixed-point number >> with 8, 16 or even 24 fractional bits). > I do think it's useful to have time resolution be better than 1 > second. I still haven't heard why this is a useful filesystem addition. (Please no flame wars!) > At the same time, I would like to put off newfs'ing systems for a new > format as long as possible, while still solving the 2039 issue. And while we're at it, I'd like a pony. > We currently have the 32-bit time_t, and the 32 bits stolen to give > us nanosecond timestamps. Just how weird would it be to make it a > 64-bit time field which was 1024'ths of a second? To get a valid > time_t (in seconds) you'd have to shift the value a few bits, and > you could provide that value in a 64-bit number if you want. Ugh. At least make it a multiple of 8 bits, ie 255ths of a second. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24432 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02587; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808192245.PAA02587@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joelh@gnu.org Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:45:09 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > Which reminds me... What OS's out there *are* Lite2-based? Just us and > BSD/I? NetBSD is Lite2-based. The Lite2 merge was completed in March 1998. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:05:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24790 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:05:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24772 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02604; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808192246.PAA02604@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joelh@gnu.org Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:46:43 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some > > of the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) ...and let me correct this statement. NetBSD 1.0 shipped with NO pre-Lite "encumbered" bits. We do have pre-Lite history preserved in our CVS, however. Saying that NetBSD is not Lite-based is simply a false statement. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:24:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27043 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27029 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29212; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:24:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:24:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Nate Williams cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808192055.OAA22367@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > > > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > > > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some of > > > the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) > > > > They have most of the userland Lite/2 code, at least. I've not looked > > at their kernel. > > The kernel code is what the lawsuit was all about...... just for my interest, do you have a URL to info about this? thank you, Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:31:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28108 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40368>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:30:08 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:30:21 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Aug20.093008est.40368@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:40:32 +1000, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > Are there >any standards which define time_t as a 32-bit value? According to my references, ISO 9899:1990 (which is the same as ANSI C) section 7.12.1 states "... clock_t and time_t which are arithmetic types capable of representing times". There's no reference to the size or epoch of time_t. Section 7.12.2.4 (the time function) states "the time function returns the implementation's best approximation to the current calendar time" and "the encoding of the value is unspecified". I don't know if this is changed in C9X, or is POSIX is more specific (I suspect it might be). [64-bit machine implies 64-bit time_t and requires re-compile] > I expect >that it would be a very natural transition, and won't break machines >which dump time_t's into int's (lots of them, I expect), etc, etc. I hope no-one uses int to store times. The return value from time() was a long before time_t was added. Anyone who uses int deserves to have a VAX 11/750 (or 11/780) dropped on them from a great height. >My biggest concerns are the filesystem, and network protocols which >define a 32-bit time value. One of the issues will be to locate and root out all these places. It will be a particularly messy task :-(. > What was the idea with using the reserved >bits for ns precision anyway? Can we dike it back out? I can see the need for mode On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:25:27 +1000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> One solution would be to add a creation time to the superblock (I >> think struct fs has still got free space) and then just store offsets >> from that creation time in the disk inodes > >Har. And then I use backup/restore, and everything goes to hell. dump/restore obviously need to be updated for any change in the FS code. This should be fairly trivial - copying the disk structure (a FS epoch in the header, with relative times in the `inodes') would be the easiest to make backward compatible and the most efficient to dump (which is more time critical than restore in general). I agree that there would be a problem restoring the timestamps on files that are more than 68 years older than the filesystem - how real this problem would be, I don't know. What is the oldest file or backup that you curently have? What is the oldest backup that you can still read? >Efficiency is not an issue, as of 2038, so long as there are tar files >sufficient far in the past existant. And functioning hardware that can read them. When's the last time you saw a 7-track tape drive, an 8"-floppy or a punched-card reader? Do you believe you'll be able to read today's Exabyte (or whatever) tape in another 30 years? >The amount of relative time_t math based on the superblock values more >than makes up for the storage requirements. I don't know about this. How frequently are inode timestamps updated? An upper limit is the rate at which the updated inodes can be written (although soft updates increase this because you don't have to physically write the inode every time you change it). > Consider a full system >restore onto a newly created FS. If this is the normal case for you, Terry, you need to invest in some more reliable hardware :-). In general, full FS restores should be rare. In any case, for any realistically configured system, the CPU should be spending most of its time waiting for reads or writes to complete. > Existing archive formats don't >have this relative offset stored. You can treat them as having a relative offset from a FS creation time of 1970/1/1. >> This approach does mean that a filesystem won't last more than 69 >> years, but that seems adequate. > >So did a two character date field, and a 2038 limit, when the issues >were first originated. 8-). Agreed, but IMHO: 1) Filesystems (in general) don't last longer than the hardware that they are written on. (Although RAID can change this). I am not aware of any hardware that is likely to allow you to maintain a filesystem for >68 years. 2) The current FS size limits (512GB - 1TB were calculated recently) are likely to become a serious issue, requiring re-thinking of the FS layout, before the date does. 3) The current FS cannot be grown without a newfs. What are the chances of a FS lasting more >68 years without running out of space? >> .. For a somewhat higher cost (and with kernel assistance), it >> should be possible to build a tool that can update the `fs_creat' and >> all associated inode timestamps for an active filesystem. > >How can you tell the difference between an updated and a non-updated >value if you carsh during update? My idea was that the epoch conversion would occur sequentially by inode number. The superblock would contain both the old epoch, the new epoch and the inode number where the transition occurs. If the epoch is always updated by a fixed amount, you could avoid storing both epochs. If a crash occurs then inodes around the transition maker may be inaccurate. The number of potentially inaccurate inodes can be controlled by adjusting the rate at which the updated superblock is re-written. If the difference is sufficiently large, it should be possible for the operator to work out which epoch is appropriate during the fsck. On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:57:20 +1000, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Just how weird would it be to make it a >64-bit time field which was 1024'ths of a second? To get a valid >time_t (in seconds) you'd have to shift the value a few bits, and >you could provide that value in a 64-bit number if you want. Apart from the number of fractional bits, that's basically what I was suggesting. Note that converting between a struct timespec and fractional bits would require multiplication and division. If we're not too fussed about the accuracy of the disk timestamp, we could just store the bottom 50 bits of tv_sec and the top 14 active bits of tv_nsec (the top 2 bits of tv_nsec aren't used). This means the conversion between struct timespec and inode time is just shift and mask). >It just seems weird to say we need all 64 bits for time_t. Changing >time_t to be 48 or 56 bits This would cause the greatest amount of pain (unless you have a 48 or 56 bit int): time_t needs to be defined as an integral type. The disk inode times don't need to be stored as time_t (or struct timespec). There just needs to be a reasonably efficient way of converting between a struct timespec and disk time without losing a significant amount of time information. >(I just picked 1024'ths of a second because I have a vague recollection >of IBM using that for it's STCK (store clock) instruction, but my memory >might be playing tricks on me there...) If you're talking about the 360/370 architecture, the clock is stored as 64-bits, incremented at an effective rate of 4096MHz - ie the top word represents units of 2^20 usec, which isn't quite seconds. The counter wraps around in ~140 years, and originally used an epoch of 1900/1/1 (although I believe it might have changed). I don't believe this is a particularly helpful format :-). On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:30:13 +1000, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: >There are 1000000000 nanoseconds in a second. Thus the nanosecond value >has two high bits which are currently always zero, and could be used to >flag various things, like "this is a 62bit second value instead of 32bit >second+30bit nanosecond value." This strikes me as the worst of all possible worlds :-). We lose the sub-second precision in the future, when computers are becoming so fast that knowing the fractional part of the second is important (especially to make). You need both sets of code, and need conditional tests (which are slow and will get more expensive as computers get faster). In general, there are a number of possible solutions to the 2038 problem, all of which have different problems: 1) Redefine time_t as a 64-bit signed value. This will require special handling in the UFS disk inode. It will also break a substantial amount of old code which explicitly uses long as well as format strings that print/scan times. The painful day when it all needs to be done again is postponed until sometime after the expected death of the Universe. 2) Redefine time_t as a 32-bit unsigned value. This postpones the wrap- around to sometime in 2006. Since time_t doesn't change in size, much less code will break - the breakage will be limited to code that tries to represent times prior to 1970/1/1 (such code already has the problem that 1969/12/31 23:59:59 UTC is not representable according to the C standard). (There may also be problems for code that calculates differences between times, on machines that don't ignore integer overflow, or don't use 2's complement arithmetic). 3) Redefine the epoch. The current time_t allows the representation of dates in the range (epoch +/- 68 years), with the exception of (epoch - 1 second). The problem with (epoch - 1 second) makes it difficult to pick an epoch in the future (unfortunately). This will break any code that `knows' the epoch (and may contravene POSIX). Given the requirement that the selected epoch be in the past, the epoch will probably need to be redefined every 50 years or so, with much pain each time. cpio/tar/restore etc will probably need some way for the operator to tell them what epoch the archive was made in. Peter == Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:33:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28554 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d7.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28534 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:33:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03334; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:31:39 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808191631.QAA03334@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andy Farkas cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:19:16 +1000." <35DADEE4.8A5CA646@speednet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:31:37 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card > (labeled 'MSC-08') that I would like to use to drive an old Archive > 2525S tape backup unit. > > Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? A driver for a better SCSI card. The TMC950 is not worth your time worrying about. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 16:40:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d7.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00216 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:40:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03513; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:37:58 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808191637.QAA03513@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:57:22 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:37:57 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > yes, evil evil evil man pages. :) > > and, actually John Dyson told me about rfork, i thought it was "fixed" > > though. > > OK, now I am lost. I just looked at -current kernel source and see that > freebsd rfork does not split the stack. What's funny is my old ca. 1994 > rfork for freebsd does split the stack. In fact I now wonder if my design > was not somewhat nicer, since it does split the stack and requires no > user-land assembly code. I'm still running 16 nodes with that old OS and > old rfork and I'm going to not have fun upgrading them with -current > rfork ... > > now what? Talk to John Dyson and perhaps check the archives to see why our rfork() behaves like this. If it turns out that our rfork() is wrong, or bad, or nonstandard, then please submit some diffs to fix it. Unless there are compelling (eg. thread-related) reasons, I don't see why we shouldn't try to make it useful to its ultimate consumers. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04269 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:04:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02742; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808192345.QAA02742@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mike Smith Cc: "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:45:59 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:37:57 +0000 Mike Smith wrote: > Talk to John Dyson and perhaps check the archives to see why our > rfork() behaves like this. If it turns out that our rfork() is wrong, > or bad, or nonstandard, then please submit some diffs to fix it. Basically, the FreeBSD rfork() doens't implement the Plan 9 semantics for RFMEM. The FreeBSD version does full sharing of address space, a'la 3BSD vfork(). In NetBSD, we decided not to adopt rfork() (for now, anyhow) because the Plan 9 API didn't provide the semantics we wanted, and we didn't want to call it rfork() if it wasn't. Ron's rfork() used sharing maps, IIRC, which, while they cause objects to be shared, didn't do what we (NetBSD) wanted for address space sharing. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06765 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06741 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA03965; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:27:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199808200027.KAA03965@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: sfork()? In-Reply-To: <199808191637.QAA03513@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Aug 19, 98 04:37:57 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:27:47 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Talk to John Dyson and perhaps check the archives to see why our > rfork() behaves like this. If it turns out that our rfork() is wrong, > or bad, or nonstandard, then please submit some diffs to fix it. > > Unless there are compelling (eg. thread-related) reasons, I don't see > why we shouldn't try to make it useful to its ultimate consumers. Remember that a thread implementation has to be able to allocate a user-specified amount of stack and that this is specified in the thread attributes. The rfork() call doesn't provide enough information for the kernel to create a thread with these attributes. This indicates that a separate syscall is required. Well, there is one already there, but that doesn't have the required semantics and isn't built into libc anyway. It should be cleaned up before 3.0 is shipped, IMHO. The handling of kernel threads in the pid model of the kernel needs work. Try getting one thread to exit, leaving the other threads running and you'll understand what I mean. I have all the code to handle this - I just put it aside while there were VM instabilities that had an impact on the validity of the ldt that was set to keep the pointer to the running thread. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:20:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06989 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29157; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd029125; Wed Aug 19 17:19:20 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29165; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:19:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808200019.RAA29165@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: sfork()? To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:19:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Aug 19, 98 12:57:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > yes, evil evil evil man pages. :) > > and, actually John Dyson told me about rfork, i thought it was "fixed" > > though. > > OK, now I am lost. I just looked at -current kernel source and see that > freebsd rfork does not split the stack. What's funny is my old ca. 1994 > rfork for freebsd does split the stack. In fact I now wonder if my design > was not somewhat nicer, since it does split the stack and requires no > user-land assembly code. I'm still running 16 nodes with that old OS and > old rfork and I'm going to not have fun upgrading them with -current > rfork ... > > now what? How did you split the stack? Did you put it in thread local storage? Did you limit the size it could grow to? Either would be bad... The code Loqui posted has a problem: there are no guard pages on the stack. The correct approach is probably to mmap() anonymous pages from /dev/zero instead to ensure that there are guard pages, and to install a SIGSEGV handler and leave a large enough gap that you can auto-grow the stack in the trap handler using a "pager" thread (or doing it in the handler, which I dislike). The problem with a split stack that is not based on heap memory allocation and/or non-anonymous mappings and/or a copied rather than shared page table is kernel threads. When I instance objects which I want to hand over to another thread, I should not have to copy the object between threads. The need to copy the object (via CreateFreeThreadedMarshaller(WIN32)) between threads in NT and Windows 95 was one of the biggest design blunders in Microsoft history, IMO. John's design avoids this, but has the unfortunate problem that the stack management is left up to user space. If I understand the shared page map correctly, mapping pages into one thread should map them into all threads; this should be sufficient for sbrk() and growable stacks (instead of the default 8k stacks pthreads tries to stick you with). The key here is what happens in an rfork() child when memory is mapped into the parent address space; if it does not immediately become available in the child address space, then you have repeated Microsoft's blunder. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:34:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09395 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04588; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004558; Wed Aug 19 17:34:14 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29701; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:34:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808200034.RAA29701@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: combined accept&read To: oppermann@pipeline.ch (Andre Oppermann) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:34:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35DB0422.B6447353@pipeline.ch> from "Andre Oppermann" at Aug 19, 98 06:58:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was chatting a little bit with the Zeus developers to ask them how > to make FreeBSD the best/fastest platform for them. > > "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very > often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a > socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket > buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call > should be beneifital." > > They also wish to have a few thousand open fd's without slowing > down stuff like get_first_free_fd(). > > Something like this would also help our Apache friends (and maybe > DG-FTP on ftp.cdrom.com) I think ;-). > > Opinions? The combination of open+stat, getdents+stat, and others, are all in the same category: system calls implemented as appologists for existing usage models. Because the FAT/VFAT/VFAT32 inode *is* the directory entry, it is very inexpensive to do both simultaneously (doing one, by definition, results in the other). Because of this, SMB has developed a need to do this. When someone does an SMB "open" call, you *must* stat the file to return the open information returned by that call to make the SMB client happy by giving it the information returned by the WIN32 call, which may or may not be used. You can make similar arguments for globbing in the kernel (to avoid pushing useless data across the user/kernel boundary at 2uS a pop), and for directory vs. file data returned, and for prefaulting all inodes as their numbers are seen in a directory traversal, etc.. There are a lot of optimizations that fall into this category. Now what happens when you've done this? People will rely on them. Then after people rely on them, the UNIX applciations get just as bulky as the NT applications; want a file open? Better allocate a stat buffer, before you call open... etc.. The mmap option saves all but one avoidable copy; that's two more copies than Linux saves, and one less than Linux, if Linux does it right. You could save even more copies if you stored data in minimal MTU sized chunks with TCP headers attached so that you read one MTU of data, and write one MTU of data. This would let you DMA from the disk controller into ethernet card memory, and then fixup the header contents that vary (like target machine). Be sure to use hardware that does the checksumming for you... Better to do optimizations, like exporting a "system ID" and allowing proxy locking in the kernel and exposing the NFS LEASE mechanism for use by SAMBA (NFS LEASEs are "Opportunity Locks" -- BSD beats Microsoft to yet another technology, but MS renames it and grabs the headlines). Things like fd caching after close in the SMB server, for example, are worth a 15% performance inprovement in .BAT and .INI processing to a DOS/Windows client. There are a lot of wins out there, and it's silly to concentrate on the ones which, architecturally, are not very big wins for FreeBSD, even if they may be big wins for OS's with a different architecture (like Linux). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:50:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11639 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24256; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024221; Wed Aug 19 17:49:11 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00422; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:49:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808200049.RAA00422@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:49:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: drosih@rpi.edu, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808192249.RAA14808@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Aug 19, 98 05:49:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I do think it's useful to have time resolution be better than 1 > > second. > > I still haven't heard why this is a useful filesystem addition. > (Please no flame wars!) If your system is fast enough to compile a source file and then replace that file with a derived source file in under a second, then you could have a stale object file. Another scenario is when you create a file and someone changes the contents on you in under a second, then you believe the timestamp (this scenario ignores the fact that you don't get "stat+close" behaviour from close, and therefore can't know that the timestamp is different anyway). This basically gets into the rationale of file timestamps with regard to "SHALL be updated" vs. "SHALL be marked for update", which is basically in the standard for the VMS record based FS "this is the way it currently works" lawyers. To understand this argument vis-a-vis computers fast enough to complete operations protected by rationale requires that you read the standard in great gory detail. After that's done, note that a directory is not required to be implemented as a file, and that there is nothing prohibiting obtaining directory information via ioctl or fcntl instead of getdents, and that the timestamps on directories can pretty much be ignored at the implementors discretion. 8-). For a real gas, note that MS DOS FS's don't have seperate file and metadata modification times (only a create time) and thus a FAT/VFAT/VFAT32 FS is only POSIX compliant if it is mounted read-only. 8-). In any case, the fear was (apparently) that machines were getting so fast that a single second resoloution was insufficient to make POSIX guarantees, not that BSD is POSIX compliant... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12347 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22076; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd022019; Wed Aug 19 17:51:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00591; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:51:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808200051.RAA00591@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:51:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199808191518.JAA20039@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Aug 19, 98 09:18:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > when a decision is made for real migration, #define's can be used as > > > an interim kludge to port EXISTING time_t code without code changes. > > > > The existing time_t is not a problem. The existing time_t is 32 bits. > > A 64 bit time_t is only a problem because the fields reserved for a > > 64 bit time_t were stolen. Recover them! They are stolen propery! > > They *belong* to time_t! > > For what it's worth, the nsec fields in the FS were *stolen* by the very > folk that brought us UFS. They are part of Lite2. (I just checked). Doesn't make it less of a hack. Maybe it was BSDI dropping a logic bomb on us... ;-). > So, you're whining to the wrong crowd. Go yell at Kirk for awhile, and > see what his response is. :) :) I'll ask him. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 17:53:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12691 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12628 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-120.camalott.com [208.229.74.120]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17481; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:54:18 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA15305; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:52:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:52:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808200052.TAA15305@detlev.UUCP> To: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <98Aug20.093008est.40368@border.alcanet.com.au> (message from Peter Jeremy on Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:30:21 +1000) Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <98Aug20.093008est.40368@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I expect that it would be a very natural transition, and won't >> break machines which dump time_t's into int's (lots of them, I >> expect), etc, etc. > I hope no-one uses int to store times. The return value from time() > was a long before time_t was added. Anyone who uses int deserves > to have a VAX 11/750 (or 11/780) dropped on them from a great height. :-) >> My biggest concerns are the filesystem, and network protocols which >> define a 32-bit time value. > One of the issues will be to locate and root out all these places. > It will be a particularly messy task :-(. Yes, this is true. >> What was the idea with using the reserved >> bits for ns precision anyway? Can we dike it back out? > I can see the need for mode Mode, perhaps. But I'm talking about the timestamp. >> Efficiency is not an issue, as of 2038, so long as there are tar files >> sufficient far in the past existant. > And functioning hardware that can read them. When's the last time you > saw a 7-track tape drive, an 8"-floppy or a punched-card reader? Do > you believe you'll be able to read today's Exabyte (or whatever) tape > in another 30 years? No, but I'll still probably be getting a digging in old mailing list archives and finding uuencoded tar's. (And in answer to your questions: I last used such a tape drive in '94 for real work, believe it or not. Didn't use a card reader that year, but did use a card punch (as a prank on a prof), as well as a paper tape punch and reader on an old military TTY I was converting for modern ham radio usage. 8" floppy earlier this year, while working on an old Tandy Xenix box at my old high school that is still in service.) >> The amount of relative time_t math based on the superblock values more >> than makes up for the storage requirements. > I don't know about this. How frequently are inode timestamps > updated? Every file access, unless you're using noatime. (Don't start throwing async stats at me, I don't feel like doing the math.) >> Consider a full system restore onto a newly created FS. > If this is the normal case for you, Terry, you need to invest in some > more reliable hardware :-). Or quit doing filesystem hacking, or running -current, or... > In general, full FS restores should be rare. In any case, for any > realistically configured system, the CPU should be spending most of > its time waiting for reads or writes to complete. On a realistically configured system, the users are generally waitingp for more disk space to become availible. :-) >>> should be possible to build a tool that can update the `fs_creat' and >>> all associated inode timestamps for an active filesystem. >> How can you tell the difference between an updated and a non-updated >> value if you carsh during update? > My idea was that the epoch conversion would occur sequentially by inode > number. The superblock would contain both the old epoch, the new epoch > and the inode number where the transition occurs. If the epoch is > always updated by a fixed amount, you could avoid storing both epochs. > If a crash occurs then inodes around the transition maker may be > inaccurate. The number of potentially inaccurate inodes can be > controlled by adjusting the rate at which the updated superblock is > re-written. If the difference is sufficiently large, it should be > possible for the operator to work out which epoch is appropriate > during the fsck. It would be also possible to generate the new data in a separate location, write a flag saying it's valid, ya da ya da ya da... > In general, there are a number of possible solutions to the 2038 problem, > all of which have different problems: > 1) Redefine time_t as a 64-bit signed value. This will require > special handling in the UFS disk inode. It will also break a > substantial amount of old code which explicitly uses long as well as > format strings that print/scan times. The painful day when it all > needs to be done again is postponed until sometime after the > expected death of the Universe. I still maintain that parts of the headache can be kept at a minimum by waiting until longs become 64-bit by the natural progression of hardware. > 2) Redefine time_t as a 32-bit unsigned value. This postpones the > wrap- around to sometime in 2006. Since time_t doesn't change in > size, much less code will break - the breakage will be limited to > code that tries to represent times prior to 1970/1/1 (such code > already has the problem that 1969/12/31 23:59:59 UTC is not > representable according to the C standard). (There may also be > problems for code that calculates differences between times, on > machines that don't ignore integer overflow, or don't use 2's > complement arithmetic). This also means violating the C standard anyway, no? > 3) Redefine the epoch. I'm not even going to waste my time with that one. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 18:31:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p79.tfs.net [139.146.210.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19127 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA29610; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:30:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808200130.UAA29610@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808192249.RAA14808@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Aug 19, 98 05:49:42 pm" To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:30:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > > I do think it's useful to have time resolution be better than 1 > > second. > > I still haven't heard why this is a useful filesystem addition. > (Please no flame wars!) without a generational filesystem, it does seem pretty useless. it might be a good idea on VMS tho. one could argue that for legal reasons it could be useful, but with touch, and without a standard unchangable timebase that is common among ALL computers, that argument is unsound. i also pose the question. why have a nanosecond count in the inode? the only apps i can think of would be a temp development hack to journal filesystem optimization changes, or military systems. any military system requiring such resolution would probably be for weapons or battlefield use, and thus bsd would not be considered for a waiver from the AJPO, as all such apps, even with the easing of the ADA restriction, still require an ADA program running under an OS written in ADA. i personally think that this is a lazy approach to the time-tested technique of using sequence numbers in a filename for files created at the same time_t. /* tried and true since before time began. * if you use a UTC date, then you are also ISO compliant. * this would also fall into a natural sort order. */ if (thisrec.date = lastrec.date) { thisrec.sequence = ++sequence; } else sequence = thisrec.sequence = 0; strftime(filename[strlen(filename)], FILENAME_MAX, ".%Y%m%d%H%M%S", ...); sprintf(filename[strlen(filename)], ".%d", thisrec.sequence); /* is this so hard? */ jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 18:39:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19941 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:39:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrE-45.aei.ca [206.186.204.245]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26547; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35DB7E04.BBFB44A@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:38:12 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrzej Bialecki CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.4 is out! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > * There is new type of floppy (router) which is able to provide routing > services with packet filtering on a 386SX equipped with only 4MB (!) of > RAM I would just like to know how efficient such system is and if a 386 would do a good job has a router(and a firewall if I understand). I think to buy some ethernet card for my 386 and my P200 and to protect the p200 with my 386. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 18:40:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p79.tfs.net [139.146.210.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20229 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA29636; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:39:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808200139.UAA29636@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808200051.RAA00591@usr05.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 20, 98 00:51:35 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:39:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > > So, you're whining to the wrong crowd. Go yell at Kirk for awhile, and > > see what his response is. :) :) > > I'll ask him. sounds good to me. maybe he can explain the rationale behind the nanosecond hack. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 20:15:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA00742 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id DAA26414; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:28:40 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808200128.DAA26414@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:28:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: andyf@speednet.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808191631.QAA03334@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Aug 19, 98 04:31:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card ... > > Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? > > A driver for a better SCSI card. The TMC950 is not worth your time > worrying about. on the other hand, better support for cheap SCSI adapter would not be a bad thing. At leas here you either get the $40 scsi cards (e.g. i have one Advansys and one 53Csomething, unfortunately not a supported model) which usually come with scanners or CD writers, or the various adaptecs which cost from $150 upwards. for driving a low throughput device e.g. a scanner i'd rather not have to use a 2940 as i am doing now... cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 20:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:34:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03569 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.147] (lucky.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.24.147]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA09870; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:34:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808192249.RAA14808@detlev.UUCP> References: (message from Garance A Drosihn on Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:57:20 -0400) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:38:22 -0400 To: joelh@gnu.org From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 5:49 PM -0500 8/19/98, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > Garance wrote: >> I do think it's useful to have time resolution be better than >> 1 second. > > I still haven't heard why this is a useful filesystem addition. > (Please no flame wars!) Back in the 80's, I worked on a mainframe OS which also stored lastdatachangetime in seconds. It also had make. It also ran on multiprocessors, which can make things just a little more interesting. Occasionally we would see situations where a make would not "work as desired", because two files would have the same timestamp to within a second. FileA was really older than FileB, and FileB needed to be remade when FileA changed, but it wouldn't be remade because they both seemed to have the same timestamp. It didn't happen all that often, but when it did it would be really irritating to figure out why things weren't working. We updated that operating system to keep filechange timestamps to greater than a second resolution. My guess is that as personal computers get faster and faster, the same sort of thing can and will happen. Just think, before we see the year 2039, we'll be seeing multi-processor Mckinley-class machines selling for $800 from insight... :-) (reference to some dual-processor PPro machines I just bought...) Of course, there is one very significant difference with most personal computers. There is usually only one person making system-level changes on a given machine at a time. If I remember the problem on the mainframe correctly, it tended to come up because one systems-programmer person was installing changes to some system-include library at the same time another systems-programmer was recompiling pieces of the system... >> We currently have the 32-bit time_t, and the 32 bits stolen to give >> us nanosecond timestamps. Just how weird would it be to make it a >> 64-bit time field which was 1024'ths of a second? To get a valid >> time_t (in seconds) you'd have to shift the value a few bits, and >> you could provide that value in a 64-bit number if you want. > > Ugh. At least make it a multiple of 8 bits, ie 255ths of a second. Well, that would be nicer. I think IBM used 1024's of a second, and (whatever they did use) I always thought it was an odd choice... I should see if I can dig up an old 370/XA-architecture manual and get the right details. Actually, I think it'd be fine to split the extra 32 bits in half. Use 16 bits to extend the range of time_t, and sixteen bits to increase the resolution of timestamps in the filesystem. If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 20:42:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04728 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04723 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00329 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:42:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:42:38 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: fix for boot and possible problem with DEVFS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ok, here's the problem with booting off a second BSD partition: the bootstrap has no notion of "where it was loaded from" it just blindly picks the first BSD partition it finds to load the boot2 program or root directory info. a simple kludge would be to "brand" an area of this binary before it is installed, or perhaps have the boot loader find out? i'm unsure how to do this right now. (PC intern is under a lotta stuff at home) from file: /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/ "start.S" line 159 of 458 /* find the first 386BSD partition */ data32 mov $PARTSTART, %ebx data32 mov $NUMPART, %ecx again: addr32 movb %es:4(%ebx), %al cmpb $BSDPART, %al data32 je found data32 add $PARTSZ, %ebx data32 loop again data32 mov $enoboot, %esi data32 jmp err_stop now here's where devfs comes in: devfs probes the floppie to see if it is bootable, this isn't that great and should have some flag to disable that as it sorta makes the machine vulnerable to someone sticking a hacked PICObsd disk in (perhaps in a public lab) also, devfs checks each partition in order, this is urm, basically an inconvient way to find a root partition, again, can't something be passed though the boot -> kernel -> devfs to tell it where it's actually booting from? right now an icky thing i think i'm going to try is to do this: partition table: partition 1 (win95) HEY! it's boss says i need to keep it :P partition 3 (freebsd) partition 2 (freebsd) i'm going to fake the ordering by messing with start/stop addresses one of the incentives to fix this problem (besideds the fact that it irritates me a bit) is that someone my wish to have -current and -stable on one box for development purposes. my "fix" leaves me unable to boot from the true middle partition. really really really pushing it today, sorry peoples. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 21:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08925 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08900 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40347>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:08:02 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:08:15 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Installing onto IBM ThinkPad 750 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Aug20.140802est.40347@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to install 2.2.6-RELEASE onto a ThinkPad 750. Although the kernel config editor works correctly, sysinstall doesn't. I presume the problem is related to the ThinkPad keyboard handling. Does anyone have a 2.2.6 (or similar) boot floppy that's compatible with the 750? Alternatively, how can I build a boot floppy without going through the entire `build a release' process? Looking thru the archives, I found something from HOSOKAWA Tatsumi in 1995, but things have obviously changed since then, because it doesn't work. Peter == Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 21:34:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1635.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12996 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA00436; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:33:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:33:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Garance A Drosihn cc: joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Actually, I think it'd be fine to split the extra 32 bits in half. > Use 16 bits to extend the range of time_t, and sixteen bits to > increase the resolution of timestamps in the filesystem. Hmm... Is there any way the filesystem could force times to be separated by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? This would, I'm sure, be rather difficult to write actual code for (and fs coders just abound), but... -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 21:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16127 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00392; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:51:47 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192151.VAA00392@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:28:40 +0200." <199808200128.DAA26414@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:51:46 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card > ... > > > Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? > > > > A driver for a better SCSI card. The TMC950 is not worth your time > > worrying about. > > on the other hand, better support for cheap SCSI adapter would not > be a bad thing. At leas here you either get the $40 scsi cards (e.g. i > have one Advansys and one 53Csomething, unfortunately not a supported > model) which usually come with scanners or CD writers, or the > various adaptecs which cost from $150 upwards. The Advansys cards are supported under CAM. There will eventually be CAM support for the Adaptec aic 6x60 chips as well it seems. However the grief level involved in writing support for these underpowered devices is so high, and the return on investment so low, that they truly are a false economy. > for driving a low throughput device e.g. a scanner i'd rather not have > to use a 2940 as i am doing now... Why? Plenty of leftover bandwidth for other devices. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:10:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18223 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00530; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:08:13 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192208.WAA00530@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing onto IBM ThinkPad 750 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:08:15 +1000." <98Aug20.140802est.40347@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:08:12 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm trying to install 2.2.6-RELEASE onto a ThinkPad 750. Although the > kernel config editor works correctly, sysinstall doesn't. I presume the > problem is related to the ThinkPad keyboard handling. > > Does anyone have a 2.2.6 (or similar) boot floppy that's compatible > with the 750? Alternatively, how can I build a boot floppy without > going through the entire `build a release' process? Looking thru > the archives, I found something from HOSOKAWA Tatsumi in 1995, but > things have obviously changed since then, because it doesn't work. >From the "trouble" help text: Q: I booted the install floppy on my IBM ThinkPad (tm) laptop, and the keyboard is all messed up. A: Older IBM laptops use a non-standard keyboard controller, so you must tell the console driver (sc0) to go into a special mode which works on the ThinkPads. Change the sc0 'Flags' to 0x10 in UserConfig and it should work fine. (Look in the Input Menu for 'Syscons Console Driver'.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:15:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19132 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19116 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00562; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:13:06 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192213.WAA00562@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fix for boot and possible problem with DEVFS In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:42:38 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:13:05 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ok, here's the problem with booting off a second BSD partition: > > the bootstrap has no notion of "where it was loaded from" it just blindly > picks the first BSD partition it finds to load the boot2 program or root > directory info. That's correct. The first BSD partition should have a valid bootstrap. > a simple kludge would be to "brand" an area of this binary before it is > installed, or perhaps have the boot loader find out? i'm unsure how to do > this right now. (PC intern is under a lotta stuff at home) You could improve the bootloader to prefer an 'active' BSD partition, and fallback to the first if one was not found. I'll take this up with Robert Nordier who has some improvements to boot1 (boot beyond 1024 cylinders, etc.) which we hope to incorporate before 3.0. > devfs probes the floppie to see if it is bootable, this isn't that great > and should have some flag to disable that as it sorta makes the machine > vulnerable to someone sticking a hacked PICObsd disk in (perhaps in a > public lab) devfs won't (shouldn't) mount root off the floppy if the kernel was loaded off a harddisk. > also, devfs checks each partition in order, this is urm, basically > an inconvient way to find a root partition, again, can't something be > passed though the boot -> kernel -> devfs to tell it where it's actually > booting from? The booted slice number is already passed through. I believe it's correctly used. If this isn't the case, a fix is trivial. See the improved non-DEVFS root location and mounting code. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19380 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00579; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:13:56 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192213.WAA00579@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: ac199@hwcn.org cc: Garance A Drosihn , joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:33:39 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:13:56 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > Actually, I think it'd be fine to split the extra 32 bits in half. > > Use 16 bits to extend the range of time_t, and sixteen bits to > > increase the resolution of timestamps in the filesystem. > > Hmm... > > Is there any way the filesystem could force times to be separated > by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only > resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark > programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? > > This would, I'm sure, be rather difficult to write actual code > for (and fs coders just abound), but... It could simply be defeated by finding another pathalogical example. Higher time resolution is the only way to fix it correctly. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19710 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00599; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:15:58 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192215.WAA00599@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Malartre cc: Andrzej Bialecki , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.4 is out! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:38:12 -0400." <35DB7E04.BBFB44A@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:15:58 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > > * There is new type of floppy (router) which is able to provide routing > > services with packet filtering on a 386SX equipped with only 4MB (!) of > > RAM > > I would just like to know how efficient such system is and if a 386 > would do a good job has a router(and a firewall if I understand). > I think to buy some ethernet card for my 386 and my P200 and to protect > the p200 with my 386. If you only have one machine, efficiency is hardly an issue. PicoBSD is certainly more than capable of handling such a scenario. Throughput limitations depend on the level of complexity in your firewall configuration. A small 386 will handle your 'average' firewall config and probably several hundred k/sec of traffic, as a rough guesstimate. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:22:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20558 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:22:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20553 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23261; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd023245; Wed Aug 19 22:21:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA14742; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:21:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808200521.WAA14742@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: ac199@hwcn.org Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:21:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: drosih@rpi.edu, joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Aug 20, 98 00:33:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any way the filesystem could force times to be separated > by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only > resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark > programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? > > This would, I'm sure, be rather difficult to write actual code > for (and fs coders just abound), but... Trivial, actually... if( oldsecond == current second) { savesecond = currentsecond saveunique = ++unique; } else { savesecond = currentsecond saveunique = unique = 0; } A 16 bit value for saveunique for content modification time should suffice, but there is sufficient spare for all thre timestamps (64 bit, 1 second resolution) should that be deemed necessary. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22098 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22092 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40373>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:35:14 +1000 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:35:26 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Installing onto IBM ThinkPad 750 To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Aug20.153514est.40373@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:08:12 +1000, Mike Smith wrote: >>From the "trouble" help text: > >Q: I booted the install floppy on my IBM ThinkPad (tm) laptop, and the > keyboard is all messed up. Nothing like making a fool of myself in a technical mailing list :-(. I didn't think of looking there (In my defense, neither did the search facility on the FreeBSD WEB site). Peter == Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 22:48:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1635.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23504 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:48:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA00543; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:47:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:47:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Mike Smith cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Garance A Drosihn , joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808192213.WAA00579@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only > > resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark > > programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? > > It could simply be defeated by finding another pathalogical example. > Higher time resolution is the only way to fix it correctly. Sufficiently pathalogical examples defeat static resolutions (ie. any resolution that doesn't become finer as necessary). -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 23:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29641 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picasso.wcape.school.za (picasso.wcape.school.za [196.21.102.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29635 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za) Received: from uucp by picasso.wcape.school.za with local-rmail (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0z9O58-0006JB-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:20:22 +0200 Received: from localhost (pvh@localhost) by leftside.wcape.school.za (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA12845 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:45:45 +0200 (SAT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:45:44 +0200 (SAT) From: Peter van Heusden To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Documentation on pthreads? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there documentation available online somewhere on pthreads? I looked at 'man pthread', and whilst it is a starting point, is is fairly sparse. I was wondering if there was more complete documentation available somewhere (e.g. in the form of a 'Tutorial' or 'Programming Manual'). Thanks, Peter -- Peter van Heusden | Its the 90's, and collective action is STILL cool! pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za | Get active in your union today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 23:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29732 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:21:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29706 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01112; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:19:11 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808192319.XAA01112@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: combined accept&read In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:58:10 +0200." <35DB0422.B6447353@pipeline.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:19:10 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was chatting a little bit with the Zeus developers to ask them how > to make FreeBSD the best/fastest platform for them. > > "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very > often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a > socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket > buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call > should be beneifital." Some benchmarks demonstrating that this overhead actually costs them, and how it might be improved, would really support their arguments. Like the sendfile() case, all these "wouldn't it be nice if" suggestions don't actually mean much unless the benefits can be quantified. > They also wish to have a few thousand open fd's without slowing > down stuff like get_first_free_fd(). I don't know what "get_first_free_fd()" you might be referring to. kern_descrip.c:fdalloc() is already optimised to supply an fd rapidly even in the case where there are many fd's open. Having "a few thousand" fd's open in a single process shouldn't hurt it noticeably. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 23:46:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from people.human.com (people.human.com [165.227.247.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03191 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@human.com) Received: from icrunch.human.com (icrunch.human.com [205.179.92.69]) by people.human.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA07556 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980819232038.00926b60@earth.human.com> X-Sender: scott@earth.human.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:20:38 -0700 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Scott Deardorff Subject: Don't need boot.flp w/ xl driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I borrowed an old SMC 8416T or SMC EtherEZ from another machine, and even though it is not listed as supported, a quick search through the archive finds that the existing SMC/80xx driver works just fine. Just disable plug and play. The mail list archive is most useful I send warm thanks to those who put together and maintain it. I will install the xl driver available at http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/3Com/2.2/ and test. Is this list the appropriate place for posting of bug reports for this driver?? Regards, Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Deardorff Voice: (408) 336-1234 The Human Factor ICQ : 4665706 903 Pacific Ave Suite 203C E-mail : scott@human.com Santa Cruz, Ca. 95061 http://www.human.com "The World Wide Web... The waters of life, which is information, are pouring down into a thristy humanity" - Risa D'Angeles '97 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 19 23:59:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04617 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:59:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12569 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:58:57 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:58:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: perl leaking ? 3.0-980524-SNAP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've had many problems with perl recently (the perl package required an unfound library libnet.so.0.92) I installed it from the ports. but apparently it his "eating" memory at high speed Is it a know problem ? -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 00:31:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09345 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09340 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:31:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04507; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:00:20 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199808200730.RAA04507@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Peter van Heusden cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation on pthreads? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Aug 1998 07:45:44 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:00:20 +0930 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there documentation available online somewhere on pthreads? I looked at > 'man pthread', and whilst it is a starting point, is is fairly sparse. I > was wondering if there was more complete documentation available somewhere > (e.g. in the form of a 'Tutorial' or 'Programming Manual'). Have a look at http://centaurus.cs.umass.edu/~wagner/threads_html/tutorial.html and http://www.humanfactor.com/pthreads/ They have some info about it.. Try web searches on pthreads :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 00:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com ([203.8.14.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10154 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.hilink.com.au [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02837; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:38:28 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808200038.AAA02837@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Scott Deardorff cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Don't need boot.flp w/ xl driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:20:38 MST." <3.0.5.32.19980819232038.00926b60@earth.human.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:38:27 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I will install the xl driver available at > > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/3Com/2.2/ > > and test. Is this list the appropriate place for posting of bug reports > for this driver?? Now that the driver has been committed, it's worth submitting PR's for it. You should make sure that you summarise your PR's to this list as well as letting the author know. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 01:32:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:32:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thrush.omix.com (thrush.omix.com [206.40.77.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16607 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@thrush.omix.com) Received: (from lists@localhost) by thrush.omix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07319; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists) Message-Id: <199808200841.BAA07319@thrush.omix.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: from Didier Derny at "Aug 19, 98 05:15:38 pm" To: didier@omnix.net (Didier Derny) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de From: zenin@archive.rhps.org (Zenin) Organization: Bawdy Caste -- Rocky Horror, South San Francisco Bay X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm working with Yard (SQL engine) > > With a Pentium 200MMX I get the same performances with FreeBSD/Yard > than with a Pentium II 333 running Linux suse 5.2 > > exactly the same application. And when you switch the machines, what happends? If it's still the same, I'd say you're I/O bound, probably at the disks. But of course, you give us so little information on what exactly you're doing and how you're doing it that it's all just a guess. -- -Zenin (zenin@archive.rhps.org) From The Blue Camel we learn: BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least, more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 01:35:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17104 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17091 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA16043; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:34:54 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:34:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: Zenin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: <199808200841.BAA07319@thrush.omix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Zenin wrote: > > > I'm working with Yard (SQL engine) > > > > With a Pentium 200MMX I get the same performances with FreeBSD/Yard > > than with a Pentium II 333 running Linux suse 5.2 > > > > exactly the same application. > > And when you switch the machines, what happends? > > If it's still the same, I'd say you're I/O bound, probably > at the disks. But of course, you give us so little information > on what exactly you're doing and how you're doing it that > it's all just a guess. > -- > -Zenin (zenin@archive.rhps.org) From The Blue Camel we learn: > BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC > Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only > medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least, > more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution". > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 01:46:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18223 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thrush.omix.com (thrush.omix.com [206.40.77.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18218 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from byron@thrush.omix.com) Received: (from byron@localhost) by thrush.omix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07487; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from byron) Message-Id: <199808200856.BAA07487@thrush.omix.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: from Didier Derny at "Aug 20, 98 10:34:54 am" To: didier@omnix.net (Didier Derny) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: zenin@archive.rhps.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de From: byron@omix.com (Byron Brummer) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) > on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux Could be any number of things. The VM comes to mind quickly, as the FreeBSD VM is quite a bit more advanced then the Linux VM, even if it is swap hungry (trade off for performance). Or, it could just be that someone has had more time to tune the BSD port then the Linux port. -- -Zenin (zenin@archive.rhps.org) From The Blue Camel we learn: BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least, more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 03:24:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28969 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.uni-kl.de (news.uni-kl.de [131.246.137.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA28960 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mheller@acm.org) Received: from alma.student.uni-kl.de ( alma.student.uni-kl.de [131.246.90.25] ) by news.uni-kl.de id aa13738 ; 20 Aug 98 12:24 MESZ Received: from mater.student.uni-kl.de(really [131.246.90.23]) by alma.student.uni-kl.de via smtpd with smtp id for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:23:19 +0200 (CETDST) (Smail-3.2.0.95 1997-May-7 #5 built 1997-May-16) Received: from localhost by mater.student.uni-kl.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0z9RsG-0001czC; Thu, 20 Aug 98 12:23 CETDST Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:23:19 +0200 (CETDST) From: Martin Heller X-Sender: mheller@mater.student.uni-kl.de To: Peter van Heusden cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation on pthreads? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Peter van Heusden wrote: > Is there documentation available online somewhere on pthreads? I looked at > 'man pthread', and whilst it is a starting point, is is fairly sparse. I > was wondering if there was more complete documentation available somewhere > (e.g. in the form of a 'Tutorial' or 'Programming Manual'). > > Thanks, > Peter Take a look at: http://www.unix.digital.com/faqs/publications/pub_page/V40D_DOCS.HTM and look for the title 'Guide to DECthreads' - despite the name, pthreads are the main part of the book (The PDF-file printed gives you a real nice book) MARTIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 04:08:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02871 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02866 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:08:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA03015 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:07:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:07:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Login w/ NFS-imported Home Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On one of my FreeBSD boxes (2.2.6-R) all user home directories are NFS-imported without root access (root mapped to nobody). Login fails (`no home directory') if the user doesn't give at least mode 755 to his/her home. I modified login.c to overcome this. I don't know whether my modification is really bug-free, and I don't know whether this problem has already been fixed in 2.2-stable or 3.0-current. In any case it would be nice to find the problem fixed in the future ... Here's the diff listing concerning my modification of login.c: *** /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c.org Wed Feb 18 13:07:42 1998 --- /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c Thu Aug 20 12:50:08 1998 *************** *** 51,56 **** --- 51,57 ---- * login -f name (for pre-authenticated login: datakit, xterm, etc.) */ + #include #include #include #include *************** *** 156,161 **** --- 157,163 ---- int ask, ch, cnt, fflag, hflag, pflag, quietlog, rootlogin, rval; int changepass; time_t warntime; + uid_t euid; uid_t uid; char *domain, *p, *ep, *salt, *ttyn; char tbuf[MAXPATHLEN + 2], tname[sizeof(_PATH_TTY) + 10]; *************** *** 538,543 **** --- 540,547 ---- #else quietlog = 0; #endif + euid = geteuid(); + seteuid(pwd->pw_uid); if (!*pwd->pw_dir || chdir(pwd->pw_dir) < 0) { #ifdef LOGIN_CAP if (login_getcapbool(lc, "requirehome", 0)) *************** *** 551,556 **** --- 555,562 ---- } if (!quietlog) quietlog = access(_PATH_HUSHLOGIN, F_OK) == 0; + + seteuid(euid); if (pwd->pw_change || pwd->pw_expire) (void)gettimeofday(&tp, (struct timezone *)NULL); Regards Konrad Heuer // Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH // Goettingen (GWDG), Am Fassberg, D-37077 Goettingen, Germany // // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 04:48:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA05533 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA26820; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:02:24 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808201002.MAA26820@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: combined accept&read To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:02:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: oppermann@pipeline.ch, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808192319.XAA01112@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Aug 19, 98 11:18:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very > > often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a > > socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket > > buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call > > should be beneifital." it is not very clear to me what the above means -- perhaps that in the sequence select() accept() select() read() the second select could be saved ? In that case, one could always write select() accept() if (fionread()) read() at the little price of one simple syscall, and not a full select with its overhead for scanning all descriptors. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 04:53:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA05898 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 04:53:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA26846; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:07:21 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808201007.MAA26846@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:07:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808192151.VAA00392@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Aug 19, 98 09:51:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The Advansys cards are supported under CAM. There will eventually be > CAM support for the Adaptec aic 6x60 chips as well it seems. > > However the grief level involved in writing support for these > underpowered devices is so high, and the return on investment so low, > that they truly are a false economy. The only thing i can agree upon is that it would not make much sense to *pay* someone to develop a driver for such low end hardware. But other than that: * as a user, having a wider choice is always a good thing not to mention that many times such cheap cards are available more or less for free. * from the FreeBSD point of view, having more cards supported means more "satisfied users" and thus it is better for the project. and finally, as a developer (as opposed as a simple user) i am a bit uncomfortable in talking about economical issues... just consider the time and money i (as many many others) have invested in the project both for developing stuff and supporting it... > > for driving a low throughput device e.g. a scanner i'd rather not have > > to use a 2940 as i am doing now... > > Why? Plenty of leftover bandwidth for other devices. scanners tend not to release the bus between request and response, so you will not be safe in putting other peripherals (e.g. disks, CD writers, etc) on the same bus unless you can tolerate other I/O to get stuck while the scan proceeds. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 05:23:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08458 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:23:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (IDENT:XAjNWzeCqV9L4AuEvhsR3KLpcBeqfPSC@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03016; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:22:17 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199808201222.OAA03016@gratis.grondar.za> To: Didier Derny cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: perl leaking ? 3.0-980524-SNAP Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:22:16 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Didier Derny wrote: > I've had many problems with perl recently (the perl package > required an unfound library libnet.so.0.92) > > I installed it from the ports. but apparently it his "eating" > memory at high speed > > Is it a know problem ? No. More details please? M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 05:26:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09125 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA28375; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:28:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980820142840.A28158@cons.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:28:40 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Jonathan Lemon , Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sfork()? References: <199808191303.PAA10187@sos.freebsd.dk> <19980819101735.48927@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19980819101735.48927@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 10:17:35AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In <19980819101735.48927@right.PCS>, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Aug 08, 1998 at 10:43:09AM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > can someone explain why this doesn't work? > > Look at the -hacker archives, for a message from John Dyson > titled "malloc() problems in children after using rfork()", > circa Nov 1997. It includes an assembly wrapper around rfork() > that is needed to make it work in userland. I once changed that source bit to make it easier to use and wrote an example use program. I attached the code, maybe it's useful for you. If you change or expand it, please notify me. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dyson-rf.h" int thrfork(int flags, void *stack, void *startrtn, void *startarg, void *userrtn, void *arg); --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dyson-rf.S" .file "dyson-rf.S" #include #include "DEFS.h" #include "SYS.h" #define KERNEL #include #undef KERNEL #undef DEBUG /* * 8 12 16 20 24 28 * _rfork(flags, stack, startrtn, startarg, userrtn, arg); * * flags: RF* flags for rfork in unistd.h. * subr: subroutine to run as a thread. * stack: top of stack for thread. * arg: argument to thread. */ .stabs "dyson-rf.S",100,0,0,Ltext0 .text Ltext0: .type _thrfork,@function .stabd 68,0,1 ENTRY(thrfork) pushl %ebp movl %esp, %ebp pushl %esi /* * Push thread info onto the new thread's stack */ movl 12(%ebp), %esi / get stack addr subl $4, %esi movl 28(%ebp), %eax / get user argument movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 24(%ebp), %eax / get user thread address movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 20(%ebp), %eax / get internal argument movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 16(%ebp), %eax / get internal subroutine movl %eax, (%esi) .stabd 68,0,2 /* * Prepare and execute rfork */ pushl 8(%ebp) pushl %esi leal SYS_rfork, %eax KERNCALL jb 2f .stabd 68,0,3 /* * Check to see if we are in the parent or child */ cmpl $0, %edx jnz 1f addl $8, %esp popl %esi movl %ebp, %esp popl %ebp ret .p2align 2 /* * If we are in the child (new thread), then * set-up the call to the internal subroutine. If it * returns, then call __exit. */ .stabd 68,0,4 1: movl %esi,%esp #ifdef DEBUG movl %esp, _stackaddr movl (%esp), %eax movl %eax, _stack movl 4(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+4 movl 8(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+8 movl 12(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+12 #endif popl %eax #ifdef DEBUG movl %eax,_fcn #endif call %eax addl $12, %esp /* * Exit system call */ pushl %eax pushl $SYS_exit call _syscall .stabd 68,0,5 2: movl $EAGAIN, _errno movl $-1, %eax leave ret .stabs "thrfork:f67",36,0,6,_thrfork Lfe1: .size _thrfork,Lfe1-_thrfork #ifdef DEBUG .data .globl _stack _stack: .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .globl _stackaddr _stackaddr: .long 0 .globl _fcn _fcn: .long 0 #endif --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dyson-test.c" #define SIZE 8192*2 #include #include #include #include #include #include "dyson-rf.h" static void testroutine(void *arg) { int i; fprintf(stderr,"In test pid %d, stack is %p, val is %d\n" , getpid(), &i, *(int*)arg); } int main(void) { char *areas[5]; int i; int childpid; int val_for_child = 42; int val_for_child2 = 43; for (i = 0; i<5 ; i++) { if ( (areas[i] = malloc(SIZE)) == NULL) { perror("malloc"); exit(2); } } childpid = thrfork(RFPROC|RFMEM , areas[0] , testroutine , &val_for_child , areas[3] , areas[4] ); if (childpid < 0) { perror("thrfork"); exit(1); } testroutine(&val_for_child2); fprintf(stderr,"Obviously survived, cpid = %d (mypid = %d)\n" , childpid , getpid()); wait((int *)NULL); exit(0); } --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 07:05:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firebat.wolfepub.com (firebat.wolfepub.com [206.250.193.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18888 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from ricecake.fastnet0.net (grxa8-ppp1.triton.net [209.172.4.1]) by firebat.wolfepub.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA26557 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980820101150.006c0da8@wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:11:50 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Trapping memory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Is there some way to trap or detect when some other program is trying to read memory used by another program? For example, I have an encryption/decryption daemon that holds its key in memory. I have been told that there is really no way to protect the memory used by the daemon in the case of a root compromise. However, if I could somehow detect another program trying to access my daemon's memory space, then I could have the daemon dump the key and shutdown. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 08:12:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25060 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:12:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snitterly.nanoteq.co.za (snitterly.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.90.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24989 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from edebruin@iname.com) Received: from iname.com (mossie.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.6]) by snitterly.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA14653 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:15:58 GMT Message-ID: <35DC5860.1B07E107@iname.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:09:52 +0000 From: eT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: attaching devices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greets, I have a few questions regarding writing a PCI device driver with I/O address access to the PCI chip as opposed to memory mapped access: 1. what does the kernel do/want when it attaches the driver? 2. which pci_* functions are relevant for I/O access to PCI chip? 3. what does pci_attach() do? 4. many of the examples in /usr/src/sys/pci have the xx_softc structure. is this thee structure for accessing and controlling the PCI chip and whatever other chips are on the device? Regards eT -- Etienne de Bruin E-mail: edebruin@iname.com OR edebruin@netscape.net WWW: http://listen.to/eT Forcefully advancing the Kingdom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 08:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25184 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06092; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA03329; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:12:06 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:12:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199808201512.JAA03329@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Peter Jeremy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing onto IBM ThinkPad 750 In-Reply-To: <98Aug20.140802est.40347@border.alcanet.com.au> References: <98Aug20.140802est.40347@border.alcanet.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm trying to install 2.2.6-RELEASE onto a ThinkPad 750. Although the > kernel config editor works correctly, sysinstall doesn't. I presume the > problem is related to the ThinkPad keyboard handling. Add flags 0x10 to syscons in the UserConfig menu, and the keyboard should work fine. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 08:28:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:28:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com (gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA27547 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com; id KAA07095; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:25:58 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com( 151.145.101.160) by gatewayb via smap (V2.1) id xma006761; Thu, 20 Aug 98 10:25:49 -0500 Received: by stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:27:31 +0100 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177663D@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Doug Rabson'" Cc: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: VFS interface Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:28:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm just being butt-lazy and trying to weasel out of studying the Source. OK I give. I'll study the source :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Rabson [SMTP:dfr@nlsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 5:24 AM > To: Alton, Matthew > Cc: 'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG' > Subject: Re: VFS interface > > On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me where _DETAILED_ information on the BSD > > VFS interface can be had? I have all the standard texts but > > they're very vague and general. I need to know specifically how > > to register a filesystem at mount time and how to complete VOP_ > > calls. The man pages on this are quite incomplete. I'd love to fix > > them :-) > > The only information that I know of is in the source code. That is what I > used to write the man pages in the first place. You would be welcome to > continue where I left off with the documentation... > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 > Fax: +44 181 381 1039 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 08:56:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00800 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail4.aracnet.com (mail4.aracnet.com [205.159.88.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00787 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@aracnet.com) Received: from shell2.aracnet.com (IDENT:beattie@shell2.aracnet.com [205.159.88.20]) by mail4.aracnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA01009; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:54:54 -0700 Received: from localhost by shell2.aracnet.com (8.8.7) id IAA19735; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:56:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:56:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie To: Garance A Drosihn cc: joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > 2^48/(365.25*24*60*60)+1970 = 8921373 Sometime around 8,921,373 CE Brian Beattie | If my corporate life has taught me anything, beattie@aracnet.com | it was that running multi-million dollar www.aracnet.com/~beattie | projects in no way implied managerial competence. | Tony Porczyk ( in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:15:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04034 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA17363; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:14:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:14:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "James E. Housley" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller References: <35DACE2C.BCDA7893@pr-comm.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:14:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: "James E. Housley"'s message of "Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:07:56 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA04038 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "James E. Housley" writes: > Buslogic 445S/445c VLB > Adaptec 1542 ISA > Adaptec 274x/284x/2940/2940U/3940 VLB 2940 ought to work like a charm. 1542 is a piece of junk compared to modern technology (but should work). 3940 will definitely not work on a non-CAM system. I have no experience with BusLogic. If you're going for low-budget, I'd suggest looking around for NCR (SymBios) based controllers. They're cheap and are rumored to work very well with FreeBSD. Dunno if there are VLB versions out though. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:19:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04859 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA17713; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:18:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:18:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Didier Derny Cc: Zenin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:18:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: Didier Derny's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:34:54 +0200 (CEST)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA04866 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Didier Derny writes: > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) > on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux This sounds a little extreme. Of course, we like to believe that FreeBSD is faster than Linux, but a threefold increase in performance is too good to be true. Blame it on differences in configuration. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:19:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:19:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA04947 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:19:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9XQa-0002hU-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:19:08 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA20970 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Realloc fix for review Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:19:42 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all instances of a = realloc(a, size); with na = realloc(a, size); if (!na) free(a); a = na; So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. I did a full make world, and this seems to work. One gotcha that I had was that I could not place frealloc into the "logical" place of malloc.c due to the "emacs malloc" problem that was worked around in ld.so. It was far easier to place it in its own file than to generate a working patch for ld.so. It also seems cleaner this way as well since the code will work with any implementation of malloc/free/realloc. Comments? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05584 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA17932; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:20:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:20:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Peter van Heusden Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation on pthreads? References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:20:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: Peter van Heusden's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:45:44 +0200 (SAT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA05606 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter van Heusden writes: > Is there documentation available online somewhere on pthreads? I looked at > 'man pthread', and whilst it is a starting point, is is fairly sparse. I > was wondering if there was more complete documentation available somewhere > (e.g. in the form of a 'Tutorial' or 'Programming Manual'). 'man -k pthread' :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:22:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06176 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA18027; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:21:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:21:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Scott Deardorff , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Don't need boot.flp w/ xl driver References: <199808200038.AAA02837@dingo.cdrom.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:21:18 +0000 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:38:27 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA06183 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > I will install the xl driver available at > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/3Com/2.2/ > > > > and test. Is this list the appropriate place for posting of bug reports > > for this driver?? > Now that the driver has been committed, it's worth submitting PR's for > it. You should make sure that you summarise your PR's to this list as > well as letting the author know. It's not in -stable yet AFAIK. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:23:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06349 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA18061; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:22:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:22:15 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Login w/ NFS-imported Home References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:22:09 +0000 In-Reply-To: Konrad Heuer's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:07:34 +0200 (CEST)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA06370 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konrad Heuer writes: > On one of my FreeBSD boxes (2.2.6-R) all user home directories are > NFS-imported without root access (root mapped to nobody). Login fails (`no > home directory') if the user doesn't give at least mode 755 to his/her > home. I modified login.c to overcome this. Please submit a PR with this patch. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:47:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mysa.qualcomm.com (mysa.qualcomm.com [129.46.52.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10102 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mmitchel@qualcomm.com) Received: from mmitchel-nt (NOBODY@mmitchel-nt.qualcomm.com [129.46.171.128]) by mysa.qualcomm.com (8.8.5/1.4/8.7.2/1.14) with SMTP id JAA16129 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mike Mitchell" To: Subject: Query: Boot.flp for Compaq Deskpro's NIC Available Somewhere Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:46:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bdcc5a$2470d820$80ab2e81@mmitchel-nt.qualcomm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I see that the Compaq Deskpro's NIC has made it to the supported hardware list, but the GENERIC boot.flp available in 2.2.7-RELEASE does not have the code compiled in. Does someone have a boot.flp image available which has this driver complied in and that can be used to bootstrap and install FreeBSD on a Compaq Deskpro? Thank you for your time and effort. Mike Mitchell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10456 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:49:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10450 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id SAA21112; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:48:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:48:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 16:48:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:19:42 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA10451 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh writes: > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > instances of > a = realloc(a, size); > with > na = realloc(a, size); > if (!na) > free(a); > a = na; Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover gracefully). Such a change should be done on a per-case basis, rather than blindly applied to every snippet that calls realloc(). DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 09:54:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11037 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11031 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01529; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:54:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:54:18 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA11033 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG give credit where credit is due. recent NFS benchmarks are almost laughable. time dd if=www2_otherlocal.tar.gz of=/dev/null bs=128k 219+1 records in 219+1 records out 28760021 bytes transferred in 3.411756 secs (8429683 bytes/sec) 0.000u 0.443s 0:03.42 12.8% 91+667k 0+17io 0pf+0w 3.4 seconds (that's freebsd 3.0-current options: nfsv3,intr,tcp,rw,bg) time dd if=www2_otherlocal.tar.gz of=/dev/null bs=128k 219+1 records in 219+1 records out 0.010u 1.550s 0:16.00 9.7% 0+0k 0+0io 84pf+0w an even 16 seconds (linux) [Redhat 5.1] (dunno the opts) this is on the same 100mbit segment. i'm using NFS over TCP and linux is using UDP (i think) both to the same Solaris 5.6 box. the FreeBSD box is my tuning (just the mount opts listed above), the redhat box has also been tuned by a linux user. i heard that linux now has kernel NFS but i doubt the stability and performance since it's so new. (still smirking) and they wonder why i run freebsd on my workstation... *sigh* if someone has a mount option for the linux box they'd like to share _please_ respond privately, i'd appreciate it as well as those on the list. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On 20 Aug 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > Didier Derny writes: > > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) > > on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux > > This sounds a little extreme. Of course, we like to believe that > FreeBSD is faster than Linux, but a threefold increase in performance > is too good to be true. Blame it on differences in configuration. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 10:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15471 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15462 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from caig1.fw.att.com by cagw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Thu Aug 20 12:39 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA13076 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, housley@pr-comm.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SCSI Controller Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no [SMTP:dag-erli@ifi.uio.no] > > "James E. Housley" writes: > > Buslogic 445S/445c VLB > > Adaptec 1542 ISA > > Adaptec 274x/284x/2940/2940U/3940 VLB > > 2940 ought to work like a charm. 1542 is a piece of junk compared to > modern technology (but should work). 3940 will definitely not work on > a non-CAM system. I have no experience with BusLogic. > What's the difference between 3940 and 2940 ? The only thing I know is that 3940 has two channels, and it worked for me fine with SCO Unix and Linux with the same driver as for 2940. > If you're going for low-budget, I'd suggest looking around for NCR > (SymBios) based controllers. They're cheap and are rumored to work > very well with FreeBSD. Dunno if there are VLB versions out though. > Symbios is really great and cheap thing. But they are PCI. -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 10:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18714 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18620 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA25190; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:35:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:35:55 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Babkin, Serge" Cc: "'dag-erli@ifi.uio.no'" , "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Aug 1998 19:35:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Babkin, Serge"'s message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:16 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA18627 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Babkin, Serge" writes: > What's the difference between 3940 and 2940 ? The only thing I know > is that 3940 has two channels, and it worked for me fine with > SCO Unix and Linux with the same driver as for 2940. IIRC, it's a different chip (789x AFAIR, as opposed to 7870 for the 2940 and 7880 for the 2940UW). I don't know what the difference between the chips is though. You might want to ask our CAM gurus, or look it up on Adaptec's web site. > Symbios is really great and cheap thing. But they are PCI. OK. If you can lay your hands on an Adaptec 1542, it should work fine. It's the only ISA/VLB SCSI controller I have any experience with (which doesn't mean it's the only good one). ISTR there are a few bugs in our 1542 support, but I haven't paid any attention to it for some time so I may be wrong. I've run -stable successfully on a few boxen equipped with 1542s, but not recently. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 10:52:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21776 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21763 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dyson@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16649 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:51:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dyson) Message-Id: <199808201751.MAA16649@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: rfork stuff To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:51:26 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM903635486-16644-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM903635486-16644-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is some code that worked the last time that I used it. It isn't the whole package, but just the LL stuff. As a package, the code worked well, and was used in a product successfully. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. --ELM903635486-16644-0_ Content-Type: application/x-gzip Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=kthread.cpio.gz Content-Description: kthread.cpio.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIAFNh3DUCA+w8a3fbNrL5Sv0K1G0TypFlPRzHseOcKjad8FaWvKKcNLc3R0tRkMSEIrkkFdvb Zn/7nRkAfEnyI92e/bDNbiMSGAwGM4N5AMM0njeeN1qNRqM5ndoT+G3sNTn9rvnTbj+bOPvNNl/f 3dw07kA9fE7mEbcnjx49auTn5XfM22q3uc1bL/YfOO+kNO+u2z7YL809JQKb9t4GHM12+0VjOoER BNie3m/uJuJv7e/tF+bejaZ165FWn7oe17bwZavyves73nLC2cv4Jt6F/xzb8+rzV1nH1qlxZtXn OdAt64NomPCp63P2szHoGd0SKh5FfkCIlj7AKSD1emq8vnxTqexuV9g2k38OxE+zJX72VXurkT7t qYcDHDeKpkH0WZ969iyusTixnc/0EyVR4ssnO5rV2DIGcrAJ3qpHMBRH07BDNjiTjwyQMcLIXJ8t fTdOJvV5HUHj5Tg6ZPQTLBNccxKwaOkzO2Y2EywWgEjDIfSGLJiKN0KbAwESABX+LBfcTxBT1rtb 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cueoncluxcFbmU+9dr+PuScVlI3dvdbHp0+fPnn8PMjnvy3iIPcAigAA --ELM903635486-16644-0_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 10:57:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:57:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22838 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:57:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: from natasya.kublai.com (natasya.kublai.com [207.172.25.236]) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07701; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:56:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00642; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980820135620.35404@kublai.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:56:20 -0400 From: Brian Cully To: Garance A Drosihn , joelh@gnu.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com References: <199808192249.RAA14808@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Garance A Drosihn on Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 11:38:22PM -0400 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 11:38:22PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to newfs our drives by then. :-) -- Brian Cully ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:09:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24746 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24737 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA14321; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808201749.KAA14321@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Cc: "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:49:21 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 Aug 1998 16:14:14 +0000 dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) wrote: > 2940 ought to work like a charm. 1542 is a piece of junk compared to > modern technology (but should work). 3940 will definitely not work on > a non-CAM system. I have no experience with BusLogic. Uh, IIRC, the 3940 is a card with: a PCI-PCI bridge 2 2940s Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:12:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25278 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25271 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:12:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25296; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:07:20 +0200." <199808201007.MAA26846@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:11:44 -0700 Message-ID: <25293.903636704@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > * as a user, having a wider choice is always a good thing not to > mention that many times such cheap cards are available more or > less for free. > * from the FreeBSD point of view, having more cards supported means > more "satisfied users" and thus it is better for the project. This is all somewhat moot. Do you see someone out there who wants to develop a driver for the TMS-950 card? I sure don't, nor have I over the 2+ years I've seen people asking for such support. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26120 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:23:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA27429; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:37:35 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808201637.SAA27429@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:37:34 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <25293.903636704@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 20, 98 11:11:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > * as a user, having a wider choice is always a good thing not to > > mention that many times such cheap cards are available more or > > less for free. > > * from the FreeBSD point of view, having more cards supported means > > more "satisfied users" and thus it is better for the project. > > This is all somewhat moot. Do you see someone out there who wants to > develop a driver for the TMS-950 card? I sure don't, nor have I over > the 2+ years I've seen people asking for such support. :) well my comment was more general on supporting cheap hardware; i was not referring specifically to the TMC950. At least let's not try to discourage people from having a look at the linux sources and try to port their drivers... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:23:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26122 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11846; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:22:34 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA02576; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:22:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980820202234.27107@follo.net> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:22:34 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 10:19:42AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 10:19:42AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > instances of > a = realloc(a, size); > with > na = realloc(a, size); > if (!na) > free(a); > a = na; This change seems pointless. If the programmer is that thoughtless, I'd believe he assume a to be valid later, too, and thus will core-dump pretty soon. If other changes are done in the vicinity, fine, but replacing the bogus code with a more well-thought-out function means that we loose the indicator that the area is bogus. IMO, bad to do without also loosing the bogosity. Apart from that, your solution was a nice solution to what I believe to be the wrong problem :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:40:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28424 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:39:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25405; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:19:42 MDT." <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:39:17 -0700 Message-ID: <25401.903638357@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new > function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use > this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added > it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in > POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy > right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. Looks to me like the best choice in a sea of even worse choices. ;) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:42:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28991 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25426; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-reply-to: Your message of "20 Aug 1998 16:48:46 -0000." Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:02 -0700 Message-ID: <25422.903638522@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() > fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially > lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover > gracefully). Such a change should be done on a per-case basis, rather > than blindly applied to every snippet that calls realloc(). Hmmm. In my previous message, I'd also assumed that Warner was only talking about changing instances of realloc() where the application very definitely wanted the free-on-failure behavior. Replacing every instance of realloc() with the new call would, indeed, be evil incarnate given realloc()'s well-documented "I don't fondle the previous value on failure" behavior. Heck, I thought that was the entire reason for a new call in the first place. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 11:57:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00900 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25464; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:56:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:37:34 +0200." <199808201637.SAA27429@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:56:57 -0700 Message-ID: <25459.903639417@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At least let's not try to discourage people from having a look at the > linux sources and try to port their drivers... I've certainly never discouraged that, nor the porting of drivers in general. New drivers, assuming that they work, are always good! :) I think perhaps what Mike was really trying to say (if I may be so bold) is that what makes a driver truly successful is not just whether it's developed, but WHEN it's developed. Part of what makes Linux such a juggernaut is the *timeliness* of their support and not just the fact that they support so much stuff. I don't have to tell any of you that the PC market is changing at a painfully rapid pace, and offering support for some device that was popular 3 years ago is sort of at the wrong end of the diminshing returns scale. What would have brought you (the OS provider) far more kudos would be having the driver 3 years ago, when the device was new and popular, even if you had to release it a little green. That's the challenge we have to face first and foremost today if we don't want the cycle to repeat itself and, happily, we do seem to be getting better at making things happen more quickly (go Bill go! :). Of course, I can also see the value of being able to run on all that obsolete hardware lying around (since it's the easiest to bust loose when you're looking for a PC for that "midnight mail router" project) and I certainly wouldn't *discourage* such efforts to go back and implement drivers for the missed-market-window hardware. I just wouldn't put it first on my list of things to do. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:14:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03707 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03700 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.147] (lucky.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.24.147]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA57412; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:36:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199808192213.WAA00579@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:40:37 -0400 To: ac199@hwcn.org, Mike Smith From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:47 AM -0400 8/20/98, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: >On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > >> > by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only >> > resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark >> > programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? >> >> It could simply be defeated by finding another pathalogical example. >> Higher time resolution is the only way to fix it correctly. > > Sufficiently pathalogical examples defeat static resolutions (ie. > any resolution that doesn't become finer as necessary). First, let me reiterate that I do believe it would be good to have resolution better than 1 second... Having said that though, pathological situations make this pretty much impossible to resolve, even if you have infinite precision of when every file was last changed. Consider: cc is compiling something.c, and reads in important.h while cc is still compiling, some other process (maybe running on a second CPU) modifies important.h cc finishes, and writes out something.o result: That something.o was *effectively* compiled with the old important.h, even though the timestamps of the two files would imply that something.o is more recent than the new version of important.h So, even infinite resolution won't really solve all the pathological cases. Completely solving them would get rather tricky, and probably involves changes to the 'make' command. Still, I do think I'd like to see something more than per-second resolution for lastdatachange times on files... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:21:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05011 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05002 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA15757; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:18:46 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199808201918.NAA15757@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Controller In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Aug 20, 98 04:14:14 pm" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Cc: housley@pr-comm.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote... > "James E. Housley" writes: > > Buslogic 445S/445c VLB > > Adaptec 1542 ISA > > Adaptec 274x/284x/2940/2940U/3940 VLB > > 2940 ought to work like a charm. 1542 is a piece of junk compared to > modern technology (but should work). 3940 will definitely not work on > a non-CAM system. I have no experience with BusLogic. That is not quite correct. It depends on what kind of 3940 you have. There is a new board, the 3940AUW, with a 7895 on board. That will only work with CAM. The regular 3940UW has two 7880s behind a DEC bridge chip. It will work with the old SCSI code as well as with CAM. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:35:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07488 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:35:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9a86-0002mx-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:12:14 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA21912; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:12:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808201912.NAA21912@harmony.village.org> To: Brian Beattie Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:56:01 PDT." References: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:12:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Personally, I'd like to see a 64-bit time_t that is the number of 100nS units since 1600, like another well known OS uses. Too bad time_t is documented to be seconds... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:36:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07542 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9a2U-0002mq-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:06:26 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA21873; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:07:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808201907.NAA21873@harmony.village.org> To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:22:34 +0200." <19980820202234.27107@follo.net> References: <19980820202234.27107@follo.net> <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:07:01 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19980820202234.27107@follo.net> Eivind Eklund writes: : On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 10:19:42AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: : > : > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all : > instances of : > a = realloc(a, size); : > with : > na = realloc(a, size); : > if (!na) : > free(a); : > a = na; : : This change seems pointless. If the programmer is that thoughtless, : I'd believe he assume a to be valid later, too, and thus will : core-dump pretty soon. If other changes are done in the vicinity, : fine, but replacing the bogus code with a more well-thought-out : function means that we loose the indicator that the area is bogus. : IMO, bad to do without also loosing the bogosity. : : Apart from that, your solution was a nice solution to what I believe : to be the wrong problem :-) No. If you actually go look at most of the code, they aren't so thoughtless as to think that a is valid later. They just destroy the pointer and leak the memory. At least in for the instances in libc that I've fixed. It is surprising how consistant people can be about calling realloc and checking the return vlaue without a thought for leaking memory when they can't realloc for some reason. There are also places where na = realloc(a, newsize); that I left alone. They seemed to already deal with na == NULL and doing the right thing with a. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:36:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07829 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9a51-0002ms-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:09:03 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA21884; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808201909.NAA21884@harmony.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:02 PDT." <25422.903638522@time.cdrom.com> References: <25422.903638522@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:09:38 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <25422.903638522@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: : > Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() : > fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially : > lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover : > gracefully). Such a change should be done on a per-case basis, rather : > than blindly applied to every snippet that calls realloc(). : : Hmmm. In my previous message, I'd also assumed that Warner was only : talking about changing instances of realloc() where the application : very definitely wanted the free-on-failure behavior. Replacing every : instance of realloc() with the new call would, indeed, be evil : incarnate given realloc()'s well-documented "I don't fondle the : previous value on failure" behavior. Heck, I thought that was the : entire reason for a new call in the first place. :-) No, this only replaces those places where the old pointer was destroyed rather than a s/realloc/frealloc/g. I was careful to only change those places where I knew that matched the pattern a = realloc(a,size); and didn't change those where they had: b = realloc(a,size); Since in the former case you've lost any reference to the old memory, the right thing to do is to free it up. Since I couldn't change realloc to have those semantics, I created frealloc which is easier to use than realloc() in the cases where you want the old memory freed when it can't allocate new memory. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:44:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09455 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA08031; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07889; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:43:13 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:43:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199808201943.NAA07889@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > > instances of > > a = realloc(a, size); > > with > > na = realloc(a, size); > > if (!na) > > free(a); > > a = na; > > Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() > fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially > lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover > gracefully). Umm, reread the code again. His realloc frees the old block when realloc *succeeds*, not fails. However, is there any case when you want to copy the data from the old pointer into the new pointer, which would also be a lose with the suggested change. (I don't know if this is legal or not...) Naet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 12:50:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10888 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA08125; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA08010; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:49:38 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:49:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > instances of > a = realloc(a, size); > with > na = realloc(a, size); > if (!na) > free(a); > a = na; I just went through the manpage, and it appears that this code is in fact in-correct. The realloc() function changes the size of the previously allocated memo- ry referenced by ptr to size bytes. The contents of the memory are un- changed up to the lesser of the new and old sizes. If the new size is larger, the value of the newly allocated portion of the memory is unde- fined. If the requested memory cannot be allocated, NULL is returned and the memory referenced by ptr is valid and unchanged. If ptr is NULL, the realloc() function behaves identically to malloc() for the specified size. So, assuming we want a smaller chunk, then we can potentally end up with the old chunk back. The return is successful, and we end up freeing it. :( It is also possible to return the same pointer back to us, (we just extended the bucket), and we end up freeing the valid pointer. Finally, if NULL is returned, then it's up to the coder to 'Do The Right Thing', and we've violated POLA. In short, I think it's the *wrong* thing to do, and has too many worse side-effects than the original code. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:03:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13606 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:03:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13584 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9aum-0002x6-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:02:32 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA23791; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:03:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808202003.OAA23791@harmony.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:49:38 MDT." <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> References: <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:03:08 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : In short, I think it's the *wrong* thing to do, and has too many worse : side-effects than the original code. No nate. You've read my patch wrong. If the realloc fails, it reutnrs NULL. When it returns NULL, the right thing to do is to free the old pointer. However, only in cases where the old code was a = realloc(a, src) but not when the old code was b = realloc(a,src) since the first destroys A in the failure case. At that point, the memory is leaked. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14135 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:05:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00449 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA02483 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:04:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.cybercom.net: ksmm owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive X-Sender: ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <19980820135620.35404@kublai.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Brian Cully wrote: : On Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 11:38:22PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: : > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? : : In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to : newfs our drives by then. :-) Anybody wanna wager how much of our existing system software will still be in use come then? K.S. FreeBSD: Timeless. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:06:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14472 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08235; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA08104; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:05:59 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:05:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199808202005.OAA08104@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808202003.OAA23791@harmony.village.org> References: <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> <199808202003.OAA23791@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : In short, I think it's the *wrong* thing to do, and has too many worse > : side-effects than the original code. > > No nate. You've read my patch wrong. You're correct in that I got it backwards. My apologies. We know return to the regular 'time_t should be a billion bits' discussion. *Sulks off into corner....* Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:10:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15148 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z9b0h-00020r-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:08:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: combined accept&read In-Reply-To: <199808201002.MAA26820@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > "accept&read combined call is something else we're toying with. Very > > > often we get a poll/select broken because there's data coming in on a > > > socket, and most of the time there's already data in the socket > > > buffers. Being able to do the accept() and read() in a single call > > > should be beneifital." > > it is not very clear to me what the above means -- perhaps that in the > sequence > > select() > accept() > select() > read() > > the second select could be saved ? In that case, one could always write Yes. > > select() > accept() > if (fionread()) > read() I'm guessing that just doing the read() could well be cheaper, especially since Zeus will have the descriptor in non-blocking mode anyway. It may still be just as or more expensive than doing a poll() on many systems though, if you don't have data available at that point most of the time. I'm wondering if you may just miss the data for read often though, and end up going back to your select() only to break out of it in a very short time. The overhead from an extra syscall _can_ be very significant on some OSes and hardware. Oh, the other thing that will give a win with Zeus is using poll(), but that is already in -current. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:11:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15490 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (libya-202.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15483 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA00842; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:11:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: [...] > an even 16 seconds (linux) [Redhat 5.1] (dunno the opts) > > this is on the same 100mbit segment. > i'm using NFS over TCP and linux is using UDP (i think) > both to the same Solaris 5.6 box. > > the FreeBSD box is my tuning (just the mount opts listed above), the > redhat box has also been tuned by a linux user. This is a poor comparison, and won't get you very far IMO. If you want to compare Linux to FreeBSD, compare them on equal ground (i.e.: 2.0.xx to -STABLE, and 2.[1,2].xx to -CURRENT). - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:16:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16131 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16126 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01555; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:16:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: Jason Thorpe cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller In-Reply-To: <199808201749.KAA14321@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > Uh, IIRC, the 3940 is a card with: > > a PCI-PCI bridge > 2 2940s Just FYI, an on-board 3940 would not function properly with a 3/28, non-CAM snap. I had 2940's laying around at the time, so just shoved one of those in rather than pulling a more recent snap with CAM down and giving it a try. FreeBSD knew it was an Adaptec controller of some sort... but it would not identify it exactly so it was not useable. Then again, I'm sure this is like most other 'problems' I've found with FreeBSD... a problem with my logic, not FreeBSD itself. :) -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6521.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16347 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA01367; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:14:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:14:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Garance A Drosihn cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Mike Smith , joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > So, even infinite resolution won't really solve all the > pathological cases. Completely solving them would get > rather tricky, and probably involves changes to the 'make' > command. Like locking sources? -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:17:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16417 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:17:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01757; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:17:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , housley@pr-comm.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller In-Reply-To: <199808201918.NAA15757@panzer.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > That is not quite correct. It depends on what kind of 3940 you > have. There is a new board, the 3940AUW, with a 7895 on board. That will Aha... that's the one I had. That explains it... *bonk* -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:26:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17575 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17570 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02142; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:26:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:26:55 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Alex cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG urm FreeBSD bright.x 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #7: Sun Aug 16 22:05:13 EST 1998 bright@bright.x:/usr/src/sys/compile/bright i386 Linux poopie 2.1.76 #8 Sun Jan 18 03:42:15 EST 1998 i686 unknown that's the kernels, btw, about your previous post, every linux user i've talked to says the NFS is userland. you are sure about it being in kernel? Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alex wrote: > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > [...] > > an even 16 seconds (linux) [Redhat 5.1] (dunno the opts) > > > > this is on the same 100mbit segment. > > i'm using NFS over TCP and linux is using UDP (i think) > > both to the same Solaris 5.6 box. > > > > the FreeBSD box is my tuning (just the mount opts listed above), the > > redhat box has also been tuned by a linux user. > > This is a poor comparison, and won't get you very far IMO. If you want to > compare Linux to FreeBSD, compare them on equal ground (i.e.: 2.0.xx to > -STABLE, and 2.[1,2].xx to -CURRENT). > > - alex > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:31:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18234 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16896 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:36:06 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA18131; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:49:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199808201849.UAA18131@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-Reply-To: <199808200128.DAA26414@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Aug 20, 98 03:28:40 am" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:49:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, andyf@speednet.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Luigi Rizzo wrote... > > > I have a small, 8-bit Future Domain TMC-950 scsi controller card > ... > > > Which driver should I configure into the kernel?? > > > > A driver for a better SCSI card. The TMC950 is not worth your time > > worrying about. > > on the other hand, better support for cheap SCSI adapter would not > be a bad thing. At leas here you either get the $40 scsi cards (e.g. i > have one Advansys and one 53Csomething, unfortunately not a supported > model) which usually come with scanners or CD writers, or the > various adaptecs which cost from $150 upwards. > > for driving a low throughput device e.g. a scanner i'd rather not have > to use a 2940 as i am doing now... Get an NCR810 based card. Cheap and work like a charm. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 13:55:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22040 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:55:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22030 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA27709; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:09:27 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808201909.VAA27709@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: combined accept&read To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:09:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc Slemko" at Aug 20, 98 01:08:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > select() > > accept() > > if (fionread()) > > read() > > I'm guessing that just doing the read() could well be cheaper, especially > since Zeus will have the descriptor in non-blocking mode anyway. It may sure -- i did not know that. > still be just as or more expensive than doing a poll() on many systems ... and i have no idea if poll() requires to scan all the fd's before completing, or it can stop at the first hit -- in any case it seems to me that going straight to the right fd should be faster in all cases. > I'm wondering if you may just miss the data for read often though, and end > up going back to your select() only to break out of it in a very short > time. such races are unavoidable :) cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 14:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25022 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25010 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24384; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:15:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024347; Thu Aug 20 14:15:45 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA25534; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:15:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808202115.OAA25534@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: ac199@hwcn.org Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:15:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, drosih@rpi.edu, joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Aug 20, 98 01:47:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It could simply be defeated by finding another pathalogical example. > > Higher time resolution is the only way to fix it correctly. > > Sufficiently pathalogical examples defeat static resolutions (ie. > any resolution that doesn't become finer as necessary). I imagine a scene at Fry's, several years from now, when somone is buying an 18G SCSI drive. The clerk rings it up with the little handheld laser scanner, and conversationally says "Going to create another 10k file, are ya?"... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 14:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25299 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:18:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.147] (lucky.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.24.147]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA51300; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:17:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:21:45 -0400 To: ac199@hwcn.org From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 4:14 PM -0400 8/20/98, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: >On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >> So, even infinite resolution won't really solve all the >> pathological cases. Completely solving them would get >> rather tricky, and probably involves changes to the 'make' >> command. > > Like locking sources? Assuming you can reliably read-lock sources that you do not have write access to, that could work, and seems like an interesting idea. Not sure how much that would be complicated by things like NFS-mounted drives, but it seems like a pretty reasonable thing for 'make' to do. In fact, when making any target, it could write-lock all targets and read-lock all sources before executing any of the commands to make that target, and then unlock them all when it's done. Actually I was thinking of something more cumbersome, like having 'make' note the lastdatachg time of all sources before making a target, and then doing some sort of check after the target is made to see if the sources had changed. If the sources had not changed, then it ('make') would make sure the lastdatachg time of the target is later than that of all the sources. If some source had changed while the target was being made, well, I guess it should remake it (although I get uneasy about things which automatically decide to "redo" themselves). Basically, I was just waving my hands vaguely in the air, saying that we'd have to do "something" more than have better time resolution, without being really sure what that "something" should be... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 14:41:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lime.sci.csupomona.edu (lime.sci.csupomona.edu [134.71.25.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29624 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jehamby@intranet.csupomona.edu) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by lime.sci.csupomona.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA04040; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:40:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: lime.sci.csupomona.edu: jehamby owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jake E. Hamby" X-Sender: jehamby@lime.sci.csupomona.edu To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > the FreeBSD box is my tuning (just the mount opts listed above), the > redhat box has also been tuned by a linux user. > > i heard that linux now has kernel NFS but i doubt the stability and > performance since it's so new. > > (still smirking) > > and they wonder why i run freebsd on my workstation... *sigh* > > if someone has a mount option for the linux box they'd like to share > _please_ respond privately, i'd appreciate it as well as those on the > list. AFAIK, Linux has always had NFS in the kernel. However, as of 2.0.x, it's *really* slow (from my own experience using a RedHat 5.1 client connecting to a FreeBSD 3.0-current server over 100BaseT). The only real improvement I've found is to upgrade to the 2.1.x development kernels. They have *much* better NFS performance, especially for writes. I'm sorry I don't have exact numbers, but I was seeing differences of up to 100x when writing 10MB files over 100BaseT from Linux to FreeBSD! Since you're using RedHat 5.1, you should already have recent enough versions of the system utilities to make a jump to the 2.1 kernel fairly straightforward, but read the directions at http://www.linuxhq.com/ for more information before you start. With LILO, it's pretty easy to keep your old 2.0.34 kernel around in case something goes wrong with the new kernel. Also, it's a good idea to make an emergency boot disk with mkbootdisk before you upgrade in case LILO gets hosed. Good luck! Cheers, Jake To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 14:56:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03522 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA00262; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000258; Thu Aug 20 14:55:39 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA09132; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:55:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199808202155.OAA09132@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <19980820202234.27107@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Aug 20, 98 08:22:34 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund writes: > > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > > instances of > > a = realloc(a, size); > > with > > na = realloc(a, size); > > if (!na) > > free(a); > > a = na; > > This change seems pointless. If the programmer is that thoughtless, > I'd believe he assume a to be valid later, too, and thus will > core-dump pretty soon. If other changes are done in the vicinity, > fine, but replacing the bogus code with a more well-thought-out > function means that we loose the indicator that the area is bogus. > IMO, bad to do without also loosing the bogosity. > > Apart from that, your solution was a nice solution to what I believe > to be the wrong problem :-) I think Warner's idea makes perfect sense.. if the semantics of "a" in the program are "pointer to valid data, or null if there was no memory for it". If the program already has bugs, then that's a separate issue. In other words, Warner's idea makes the total number of bugs not increase :-) I would bet that the majority of times when you see this: a = realloc(a, size); it's actually a bug in the program -- ie, assuming realloc() isn't going to return null. A better thing would be to replace all instances of "a = realloc(a, size)" with , depending on what the program is trying to do in that particular instance. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 14:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03981 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11232; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011194; Thu Aug 20 14:57:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA27564; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:57:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808202157.OAA27564@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:57:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Aug 20, 98 10:19:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new > function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use > this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added > it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in > POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy > right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. > > I did a full make world, and this seems to work. One gotcha that I > had was that I could not place frealloc into the "logical" place of > malloc.c due to the "emacs malloc" problem that was worked around in > ld.so. It was far easier to place it in its own file than to generate > a working patch for ld.so. It also seems cleaner this way as well > since the code will work with any implementation of > malloc/free/realloc. > > Comments? 1) It should be an inline function in stdlib.h, I think... 2) I suppose you did this so we can easily do a: find /usr/src -name \*.c -print | xargs grep frealloc to find all the code written by people bad at pointer math and thus in need of a pointer code review? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:10:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06667 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:10:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23817; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023797; Thu Aug 20 15:10:03 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA28020; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:10:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808202210.PAA28020@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Trapping memory To: matthew@wolfepub.com (Matthew Hagerty) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:10:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980820101150.006c0da8@wolfepub.com> from "Matthew Hagerty" at Aug 20, 98 10:11:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there some way to trap or detect when some other program is trying to > read memory used by another program? Yes, the program attempting to do the read segfaults. It seems your question would be better formulated as "is there any way to ask the kernel to tell me that someone is reading my pages out of /dev/mem"? The answer is "no"; pages do not have credentials, only page maps, and then only because of their association with a process. For higher "secure levels", access to /dev/mem is denied, as is access to /dev/kmem and the loading of kernel modules. > For example, I have an encryption/decryption daemon that holds its key in > memory. I have been told that there is really no way to protect the memory > used by the daemon in the case of a root compromise. However, if I could > somehow detect another program trying to access my daemon's memory space, > then I could have the daemon dump the key and shutdown. If root is compromised, they can relax the secure level on the next boot. They can also load kernel modules to disable any monitoring they want, before they raise the secure level and give you a false sense of security. > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Do an Altavista search on "Capabilities". Really, there is no way to make it so that your privacy isn't at the mercy of whoever controls your hardware. The worst case, they can install dual ported RAM or a RAM emulator, and merely read the data out without impacting the OS's knowledge of whether or not this has happened. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:14:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07670 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07640 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@mail.HiWAAY.net) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA30392; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:13:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:13:56 -0500 (CDT) From: David Kelly Message-Id: <199808202213.RAA30392@mail.HiWAAY.net> To: bright@www.hotjobs.com, dag-erli@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > recent NFS benchmarks are almost laughable. > > time dd if=www2_otherlocal.tar.gz of=/dev/null bs=128k > 219+1 records in > 219+1 records out > 28760021 bytes transferred in 3.411756 secs (8429683 bytes/sec) > 0.000u 0.443s 0:03.42 12.8% 91+667k 0+17io 0pf+0w > > 3.4 seconds (that's freebsd 3.0-current options: nfsv3,intr,tcp,rw,bg) PeeCee: {1016} time dd if=testfile of=/dev/null bs=128k 219+1 records in 219+1 records out 28760021 bytes transferred in 30.726641 secs (935996 bytes/sec) 0.0u 1.0s 0:30.79 3.2% 71+501k 3+0io 5pf+0w PeeCee: {1017} uname -a FreeBSD PeeCee.tbe.com 2.2.6-STABLE FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE #0: Mon Jun 1 10:58:09 CDT 1998 root@PeeCee.tbe.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/PEECEE i386 PeeCee: {1018} df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on mddc:/usr1 8884684 4787936 4096748 54% /net/mddc/usr1 PeeCee: {1019} rsh mddc uname -a IRIX mddc 6.3 12161207 IP32 PeeCee: {1020} Not comparing apples to apples as this is only a 10baseT network. But I was pleased to see 935996 bytes/sec. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net (hm) ====================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:14:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07674 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17198; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd017077; Thu Aug 20 15:13:54 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA28422; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:13:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808202213.PAA28422@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: shmit@kublai.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:13:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: drosih@rpi.edu, joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980820135620.35404@kublai.com> from "Brian Cully" at Aug 20, 98 01:56:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > > In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to > newfs our drives by then. :-) In 40 years, none of the COBOL programs we write will still be running... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:21:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09355 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA22232; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:55:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:55:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > i heard that linux now has kernel NFS but i doubt the stability and > performance since it's so new. 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. 2. FreeBSD NFSv3 is broken as server, however I don't know if there are any problems with its client. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:22:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09476 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:22:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9d50-000322-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:21:14 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA25040; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808202221.QAA25040@harmony.village.org> To: Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:55:39 PDT." <199808202155.OAA09132@bubba.whistle.com> References: <199808202155.OAA09132@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:21:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808202155.OAA09132@bubba.whistle.com> Archie Cobbs writes: : A better thing would be to replace all instances of "a = realloc(a, size)" : with , depending on what the program is trying : to do in that particular instance. If you actually look at the code, you'll find that most of the code that does this realloc, does check to see if a is NULL. The only bug in most of the code that I've seen is that it doesn't free a in the failure case. That's why I invented frealloc. That is, the code generally deals with failre nearly correctly. for example, in getcap we have: record = realloc(record, newsize); if (record == NULL) { errno = ENOMEM; if (myfd) (void)close(fd); return (-2); } which clearly does the right thing, except for freeing the old record.... There are other cases where this is the case. I've not looked at the non-lib parts of the tree. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:35:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10957 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10937 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA21341; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10864; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id SAA00904; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:38:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199808202238.SAA00904@lakes.dignus.com> To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org In-Reply-To: <199808201943.NAA07889@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > > > instances of > > > a = realloc(a, size); > > > with > > > na = realloc(a, size); > > > if (!na) > > > free(a); > > > a = na; > > > > Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() > > fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially > > lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover > > gracefully). > > Umm, reread the code again. His realloc frees the old block when > realloc *succeeds*, not fails. Is that valid - for example, realloc is free to return the same pointer if all it needs to do is 'extend' the memory descriptor in some way... I know of realloc() implementations that do that. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:43:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:43:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12030 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25666; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025604; Thu Aug 20 14:42:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26941; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:42:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808202142.OAA26941@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:42:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: didier@omnix.net, zenin@archive.rhps.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" at Aug 20, 98 04:18:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) > > on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux > > This sounds a little extreme. Of course, we like to believe that > FreeBSD is faster than Linux, but a threefold increase in performance > is too good to be true. Blame it on differences in configuration. This is the "Yard" thing, where 100 byte packets fly in FreeBSD when TCP_NODELAY is set on the server. The thing that is killing Linux is their delayed ack implementation. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 15:54:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13378 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA00892; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000890; Thu Aug 20 15:53:39 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA10143; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199808202253.PAA10143@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808202221.QAA25040@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Aug 20, 98 04:21:51 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh writes: > In message <199808202155.OAA09132@bubba.whistle.com> Archie Cobbs writes: > : A better thing would be to replace all instances of "a = realloc(a, size)" > : with , depending on what the program is trying > : to do in that particular instance. > > If you actually look at the code, you'll find that most of the code > that does this realloc, does check to see if a is NULL. The only bug > in most of the code that I've seen is that it doesn't free a in the > failure case. That's why I invented frealloc. > > That is, the code generally deals with failre nearly correctly. for > example, in getcap we have: > record = realloc(record, newsize); > if (record == NULL) { > errno = ENOMEM; > if (myfd) > (void)close(fd); > return (-2); > } > > which clearly does the right thing, except for freeing the old > record.... There are other cases where this is the case. Well, the proof is in the pudding, er source code. In any case, a system-wide scan of this sort of bug would be a good thing IMHO. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 16:00:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-c0f.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14594 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00613; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:58:28 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808201558.PAA00613@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Hagerty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trapping memory In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:11:50 -0400." <3.0.3.32.19980820101150.006c0da8@wolfepub.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:58:26 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there some way to trap or detect when some other program is trying to > read memory used by another program? You could implement a kernel extension to provide this support. > For example, I have an encryption/decryption daemon that holds its key in > memory. I have been told that there is really no way to protect the memory > used by the daemon in the case of a root compromise. However, if I could > somehow detect another program trying to access my daemon's memory space, > then I could have the daemon dump the key and shutdown. > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. A root compromise would be able to defeat the detection mechanism. You could increase the difficulty of recovering the key slightly by obfuscating its storage, but protecting it completely would require kernel modifications which could be reversed/removed/faked around by a sufficiently persistent attacker. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 16:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18139 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18129 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-121.camalott.com [208.229.74.121]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17669; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:27:43 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA07936; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:26:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:26:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no CC: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all >> instances of >> a = realloc(a, size); >> with >> na = realloc(a, size); >> if (!na) >> free(a); >> a = na; > Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() > fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially > lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover > gracefully). Such a change should be done on a per-case basis, rather > than blindly applied to every snippet that calls realloc(). Not to mention that on a large number of programs, memory shortage is fatal so the block will be free'd soon anyway. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 16:41:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20022 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:41:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA28755; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:40:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:40:39 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trapping memory In-Reply-To: <199808201558.PAA00613@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG baring physical access to the machine couldn't you compile in the secureflags option? then make sure to chflags the kernel, and startup scripts properly. btw, perhaps a sysctl that could be set but not cleared in securemode to suppress lkm loading. properly chflag'd startup scripts could load lkms, then set the flag to prevent a kernel trojan/virus lkm from being loaded. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's BSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Is there some way to trap or detect when some other program is trying to > > read memory used by another program? > > You could implement a kernel extension to provide this support. > > > For example, I have an encryption/decryption daemon that holds its key in > > memory. I have been told that there is really no way to protect the memory > > used by the daemon in the case of a root compromise. However, if I could > > somehow detect another program trying to access my daemon's memory space, > > then I could have the daemon dump the key and shutdown. > > > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > > A root compromise would be able to defeat the detection mechanism. > > You could increase the difficulty of recovering the key slightly by > obfuscating its storage, but protecting it completely would require > kernel modifications which could be reversed/removed/faked around by a > sufficiently persistent attacker. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 16:58:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23033 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA23832; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:58:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:58:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Terry Lambert cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , didier@omnix.net, zenin@archive.rhps.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: <199808202142.OAA26941@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > when I'm running FreeBSD and Linux on the same machine (Pentium II) > > > on this application, FreeBSD is 3.5 times faster than Linux > > > > This sounds a little extreme. Of course, we like to believe that > > FreeBSD is faster than Linux, but a threefold increase in performance > > is too good to be true. Blame it on differences in configuration. > > This is the "Yard" thing, where 100 byte packets fly in FreeBSD > when TCP_NODELAY is set on the server. > > The thing that is killing Linux is their delayed ack implementation. On UDP-only Linux NFS implementation? -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 17:25:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-c0f.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26526 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01288; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:21:14 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808201721.RAA01288@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: eT cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: attaching devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:09:52 GMT." <35DC5860.1B07E107@iname.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:21:13 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Greets, > > I have a few questions regarding writing a PCI device driver with I/O > address access to the PCI chip as opposed to memory mapped access: > > 1. what does the kernel do/want when it attaches the driver? This depends on the device in question. See sys/pci/* for examples for varoious different devices. > 2. which pci_* functions are relevant for I/O access to PCI chip? Once the device is mapped, none. The device is normally mapped by the BIOS at system startup, so there's no need to do that either in most cases. > 3. what does pci_attach() do? There is no such function, as far as I am able to determine. > 4. many of the examples in /usr/src/sys/pci have the xx_softc > structure. is this thee structure for accessing and controlling the PCI > chip and whatever other chips are on the device? No. "softc" or "soft configuration" is the traditional name for the per-device structure maintained by the device driver. The contents of this structure are driver-specific, although there are some fields which are fairly common (eg. DEVFS token, etc.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 17:26:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hoth.ffwd.bc.ca ([209.153.243.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26729 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skye@ffwd.bc.ca) Received: from skye by hoth.ffwd.bc.ca with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0z9f0X-00005G-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <19980820172445.54455@ffwd.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:24:45 -0700 From: Skye Poier To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: VM crash? questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 X-URL: http://www.ffwd.bc.ca/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am running 2.2.6-RELEASE on a 486 with 16mb of memory and a 65mb swap partition. Recently I've been working with some rather large files and the machine has had a tendancy to lock up solid. No error on the console, in dmesg, nothing. It seems to happen when VM (via swapinfo) reaches 30% usage or about 19MB of the 65MB avaiable.... other than this the server has been totally bulletproof. Any clues? I'm getting more memory soon but it probably still won't be enough, I want to use all my swap space! Thanks, Skye To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 17:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p98.tfs.net [139.146.210.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27865 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA17016; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:35:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199808210035.TAA17016@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808202213.PAA28422@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Aug 20, 98 10:13:48 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:35:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > > > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > > > > In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to > > newfs our drives by then. :-) > > In 40 years, none of the COBOL programs we write will still be running... that's what they said 40 years ago... some pointy-haired boss somewhere will survive for the sole purpose of proving you wrong... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 17:37:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28112 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:37:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA02240; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002234; Thu Aug 20 17:36:28 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA11189; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199808210036.RAA11189@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808201949.NAA08010@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Aug 20, 98 01:49:38 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams writes: > > Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all > > instances of > > a = realloc(a, size); > > with > > na = realloc(a, size); > > if (!na) > > free(a); > > a = na; > > I just went through the manpage, and it appears that this code is in > fact in-correct. Are you hallucinating, or am I? :-) If realloc() returns a valid pointer, Warner's code does NOT free it. Note "if (!na) free(a)" so realloc() must return NULL for any free'ing to be taking place. This code is correct. Even if any combination of { a, na } are NULL, the code is still valid. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 17:46:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29428 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:46:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29372 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19146; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019097; Thu Aug 20 17:45:12 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA07257; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:45:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808210045.RAA07257@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:45:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808210035.TAA17016@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 20, 98 07:35:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > > > > > > In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to > > > newfs our drives by then. :-) > > > > In 40 years, none of the COBOL programs we write will still be running... > > that's what they said 40 years ago... > > some pointy-haired boss somewhere will survive for the sole purpose of > proving you wrong... Guide: "We have spent 40,000,000 Zorkmids recreating a 20th Century computer here at the Flood Control Dam #2 Imperial Computer Museum; unfortunately some idiot set the clock to the correct time and it destroyed itself. Now moving past the smoking crater, on your right, you will see some fossilized magnetic media; magnetic media was used to store data before the invention of paper..." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:01:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02155 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16363; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:00:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980820200052.32489@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:00:52 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t References: <19980820135620.35404@kublai.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from The Classiest Man Alive on Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 04:04:47PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 04:04:47PM -0400, The Classiest Man Alive woke me up to tell me: > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Brian Cully wrote: > > : On Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 11:38:22PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > : > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > : > : In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to > : newfs our drives by then. :-) > > Anybody wanna wager how much of our existing system software will still be > in use come then? Fortune!! If fortune breaks, I will cry ;) > K.S. > > FreeBSD: Timeless. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02299 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:02:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13468; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:59:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199808210059.BAA13468@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Warner Losh cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:09:38 MDT." <199808201909.NAA21884@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:59:23 +0100 From: Brian Somers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id SAA02304 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > No, this only replaces those places where the old pointer was > destroyed rather than a s/realloc/frealloc/g. I was careful to only > change those places where I knew that matched the pattern > a = realloc(a,size); > and didn't change those where they had: > b = realloc(a,size); > Since in the former case you've lost any reference to the old memory, > the right thing to do is to free it up. Since I couldn't change > realloc to have those semantics, I created frealloc which is easier to > use than realloc() in the cases where you want the old memory freed > when it can't allocate new memory. It's still wrong: char *a, *b, *c; ..... a = b; b = realloc(b, 10); if (b == NULL) b = a; ..... or b = NULL; ..... b = realloc(b, 10); etc. Blind replacements are a bad idea. > Warner -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03439 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03384 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28034; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:09:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:26:55 CDT." Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:09:21 -0700 Message-ID: <28031.903661761@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > that's the kernels, btw, about your previous post, every linux user i've > talked to says the NFS is userland. you are sure about it being in > kernel? It can be configured either way. Go poking around in the Redhat 5.1 sources and pay particular attention to the kernel configuration stuff. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:11:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03675 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28047; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Alex Belits cc: Alfred Perlstein , Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:55:35 PDT." Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <28043.903661799@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. Sorry Alex, but you're simply wrong there. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:12:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04033 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07314; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:11:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd007233; Thu Aug 20 17:11:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05259; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:10:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808210010.RAA05259@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:10:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, didier@omnix.net, zenin@archive.rhps.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Aug 20, 98 04:58:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This is the "Yard" thing, where 100 byte packets fly in FreeBSD > > when TCP_NODELAY is set on the server. > > > > The thing that is killing Linux is their delayed ack implementation. > > On UDP-only Linux NFS implementation? I thought that this was the Yard discussion. If this is the NFS discussion, then it's the NFS implementation. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:27:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05847 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:27:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [209.118.174.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05841 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:27:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA14261; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:24:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Jim Bryant cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808210035.TAA17016@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > > > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? > > > > > > In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to > > > newfs our drives by then. :-) > > > > In 40 years, none of the COBOL programs we write will still be running... > > that's what they said 40 years ago... > > some pointy-haired boss somewhere will survive for the sole purpose of > proving you wrong... Some banks. They don't understand that computer that's in the basement, but it worked in grand-dad's time, and it's still cranking! They won't even dare look at it until it breaks. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 18:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10473 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (libya-230.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10456 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00412; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:57:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: [...] > urm > > FreeBSD bright.x 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #7: Sun Aug 16 > 22:05:13 EST 1998 > bright@bright.x:/usr/src/sys/compile/bright i386 > > Linux poopie 2.1.76 #8 Sun Jan 18 03:42:15 EST 1998 i686 unknown > > that's the kernels, btw, about your previous post, every linux user i've > talked to says the NFS is userland. you are sure about it being in > kernel? Well, I'z just saying, be sure to compare 2.1.xx to -current, as RH 5.1, despite it's obvious lack of stable code, still ships with a 2.x.x kernel for the x86 platform anyways. My previous post? This is my second post in this thread. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:08:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from backup.zippynet.iol.net.au (af.speednet.com.au [202.135.206.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12640 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Received: from speednet.com.au (zippy.zippynet.iol.net.au [172.22.2.8]) by backup.zippynet.iol.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13695 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:07:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andyf@speednet.com.au) Message-ID: <35DCD654.4B865F4C@speednet.com.au> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:07:16 +1000 From: Andy Farkas Organization: Speed Internet Sevices X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card References: <25293.903636704@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This is all somewhat moot. Do you see someone out there who wants to > develop a driver for the TMS-950 card? I sure don't, nor have I over > the 2+ years I've seen people asking for such support. :) The reason I asked which driver went with the card in the first place was because it is listed as a supported adapter in section 2.1.1 of the Handbook. -- :{ andyf@speednet.com.au Andy Farkas System Administrator Speed Internet Services http://www.speednet.com.au/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13520 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11553 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdv11541; Fri Aug 21 02:08:31 1998 Message-ID: <35DCD69A.63DECDAD@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:26 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------500F9F3013728473695678E2" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't even know what these are.... anyone care to help me out? julian --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA10531 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.whistle.com(207.76.205.131), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdl10523; Fri Aug 21 01:35:00 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA02865 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.whistle.com(207.76.204.2) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002863; Thu Aug 20 18:34:31 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by gatekeeper.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA28011 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanMateo01.POP.InterNex.Net( 205.158.3.34) by gatekeeper via smap (V2.0) id xma028008; Thu, 20 Aug 98 18:34:19 -0700 Received: from melora ([207.88.241.54]) by SanMateo01.POP.InterNex.Net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA16591 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:34:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980820183055.00b614b0@mail.facetime.net> X-Sender: msvoboda@mail.facetime.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:30:55 -0800 To: julian@whistle.com From: Melora Svoboda Subject: FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" and... 3. Is there ODBC/JDBC driver (bridge) support for FreeBSD? Any pointers to who might provide it if it exists? Thanks, M ------------- Julian, 1. Are you aware whether there a JIT for the FreeBSD Java JDK port? 2. Have you seen any reasonable (objective) performance comparisons of FreeBSD verses Linux, etc.? Inquiring minds want to know... Cheers, Melora --------------500F9F3013728473695678E2-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:17:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14525 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA24540; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:17:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:17:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Alfred Perlstein , Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: <28043.903661799@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. > > Sorry Alex, but you're simply wrong there. While I definitely know that Linux NFS client is in kernel, it will be very interesting to hear, how NFS can be implemented completely outside of kernel. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:25:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15394 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-73.camalott.com [208.229.74.73]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29110; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:25:38 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA10208; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:23:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:23:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808210223.VAA10208@detlev.UUCP> To: nate@mt.sri.com CC: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808201943.NAA07889@mt.sri.com> (message from Nate Williams on Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:43:13 -0600) Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> <199808201943.NAA07889@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all >>> instances of >>> a = realloc(a, size); >>> with >>> na = realloc(a, size); >>> if (!na) >>> free(a); >>> a = na; >> Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() >> fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially >> lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover >> gracefully). > Umm, reread the code again. His realloc frees the old block when > realloc *succeeds*, not fails. Okay, I must be very confused. First off, I thought that realloc already did free the old block. Second, wouldn't this mean that the block gets freed if SIZE is less that a's old size? > However, is there any case when you want to copy the data from the old > pointer into the new pointer, which would also be a lose with the > suggested change. (I don't know if this is legal or not...) I must be *really* *really* confused. Doesn't realloc copy the data? Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:41:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16640 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:41:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conjuror@wave.home.com) Received: from cr144230-a.rchrd1.on.wave.home.com ([24.112.92.19]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA51FC; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:41:10 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <35DCD69A.63DECDAD@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: conjuror@home.com Organization: Disorganization From: Master of Magic To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ODBC is a database connectivity standard developed by microsoft & it has become more or less standard. JDBC is similar standard using java. There are 3 types of JDBC drivers currently. pure JDBC drivers ( rare ), some other type ( my memory is like a sieve ) & third type is what your party was enquiring about...a driver that acts as a bridge between JDBC & ODBC. all major databases have ODBC connectivity, so once you have a JDBC to ODBC bridge ready, you are more or less up & running. Regards Conjuror On 21-Aug-98 Julian Elischer wrote: > I don't even know what these are.... > > anyone care to help me out? > > > julian ---------------------------------- Proud member of EHAP http://www.ehap.org/ ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 19:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ascetic.portal.ca (ascetic.portal.ca [206.87.139.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18264 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by ascetic.portal.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11595; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:53:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ascetic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Sampson To: Chuck Robey cc: Jim Bryant , Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > Some banks. They don't understand that computer that's in the basement, > but it worked in grand-dad's time, and it's still cranking! They won't > even dare look at it until it breaks. And they're probably quite right, too. In my experience, the quickest way to make a working program fail is to let some programmers at it. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 20:01:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19300 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19293 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13727; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:07:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Archie Cobbs cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:36:27 PDT." <199808210036.RAA11189@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:07:35 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This code is correct. Even if any combination of { a, na } are NULL, > the code is still valid. AFAIK not all free() implementations ignore a NULL pointer (although FreeBSD's does). But then, not all realloc() implementations allow a NULL either (FreeBSD's does) :-/ > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 20:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA20743 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:09:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9hYq-0003Bd-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:08:20 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA26640; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808210309.VAA26640@harmony.village.org> To: Brian Somers Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: Archie Cobbs , nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:07:35 BST." <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> References: <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:08:59 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> Brian Somers writes: : AFAIK not all free() implementations ignore a NULL pointer (although : FreeBSD's does). But then, not all realloc() implementations allow a : NULL either (FreeBSD's does) :-/ free(NULL); is required to be valid by tha ANSI standard. I don't know about the realloc(NULL, s); case, however. But, the frealloc, as I implemented it (rather than how I posted it) looks exactly like: #include void * frealloc(void *ptr, size_t size) { void *nptr; nptr = realloc(ptr, size); if (!nptr && ptr) free(ptr); return (nptr); } which does try to avoid calling free(NULL). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 20:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21181 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA21175 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9haY-0003Bo-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:10:06 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA26683; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:10:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808210310.VAA26683@harmony.village.org> To: joelh@gnu.org Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:26:03 CDT." <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> References: <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:10:46 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> Joel Ray Holveck writes: : Not to mention that on a large number of programs, memory shortage is : fatal so the block will be free'd soon anyway. Our libc should not force this memory shortage policy on all programs, even if most of them will exit soon in the short on memory case. While many are sloppy about this, there are many that do deal gracefully with an out of memory condition by, for example, flushing caches or by "garbage collecting" objects that they would otherwise continue to use. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 20:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22570 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:17:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22557 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:17:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14948; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199808210317.UAA14948@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:08:26 PDT." <35DCD69A.63DECDAD@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:17:04 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just forward the person to the freebsd-java@freebsd.org 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 20:29:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23941 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA23928 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9hsC-0003Ce-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:28:20 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA26817 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808210329.VAA26817@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Please review the actual diffs for realloc Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:29:00 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've uploaded the diffs to ftp://ftp.village.org/pub/villagers/imp/P.frealloc.gz . As far as I can tell, they are good instances to fix. Please take a look and let me know what you think. In the case of changes you think may be bad, try to be as specific as possible about why a change you are commenting on is bad. Thank you for the comments and suggestions to date. They have been useful in shaping the patches. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 21:48:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03373 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA19161; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:17:39 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199808210447.OAA19161@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: conjuror@home.com cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:33:39 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:17:39 +0930 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > of JDBC drivers currently. pure JDBC drivers ( rare ), some other type ( my > memory is like a sieve ) & third type is what your party was enquiring > about...a driver that acts as a bridge between JDBC & ODBC. all major databas The second type is where the driver is a native method which talks directly to your database. They are less rare than pure drivers, as quite a few DB vendors write them. (ie they're in C/C++) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 22:24:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07784 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07779 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25174 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13115 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA08503 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199808210523.WAA08503@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:23:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Aug 20, 10:19am, Warner Losh wrote: } Subject: Realloc fix for review } } Recently, OpenBSD went through their source tree and fixed all } instances of } a = realloc(a, size); } with } na = realloc(a, size); } if (!na) } free(a); } a = na; } } So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new } function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use } this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added } it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in } POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy } right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. I'd worry about causing name space pollution. You might break someone else's code who has their own function called frealloc ... On Aug 20, 4:48pm, Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= wrote: } Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review } Is that really a good idea? If you free the old block when realloc() } fails, you lose whatever data was in it (and therefore potentially } lose the ability to generate a sensible error message or recover } gracefully). Such a change should be done on a per-case basis, rather } than blindly applied to every snippet that calls realloc(). The original code also loses access to the data and leaks core because it overwrites a even if realloc() failed. That is, unless you kept another copy of the pointer somewhere, but that would be bad because that pointer might be pointing to some bogus location in the heap if realloc succeeded. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 22:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11199 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11191 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA13482; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:46:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808210309.VAA26640@harmony.village.org> References: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:07:35 BST." <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:49:58 -0400 To: Warner Losh From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:08 PM -0600 8/20/98, Warner Losh wrote: > But, the frealloc, as I implemented it (rather than how I posted it) > looks exactly like: If you're prepared for a particularly dumb request, how about calling it reallocf or reallocnf ("and free") instead of frealloc? I keep thinking "free alloc" instead of "f-realloc" when I read it. Besides, it'd be nice if realloc and this new routine were alphabetically close together... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 22:49:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA11530 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0z9k3R-0003HZ-00; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:48:05 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA27519; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:48:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808210548.XAA27519@harmony.village.org> To: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:49:58 EDT." References: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:07:35 BST." <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:48:46 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Garance A Drosihn writes: : If you're prepared for a particularly dumb request, how about calling : it reallocf or reallocnf ("and free") instead of frealloc? I keep : thinking "free alloc" instead of "f-realloc" when I read it. Besides, : it'd be nice if realloc and this new routine were alphabetically close : together... Hmmm. You may have a point there. Maybe reallocf to connote the order in which things may happen. I'll have to think about this... Since there is no code checked into the tree yet, it is a fairly easy change to make. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 20 23:00:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13230 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12070; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA10439; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:00:05 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:00:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199808210600.AAA10439@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Melora Svoboda Subject: Re: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] In-Reply-To: <35DCD69A.63DECDAD@whistle.com> References: <35DCD69A.63DECDAD@whistle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't even know what these are.... Java stuff. The poster should be pointed to java@FreeBSD.org, in any case... > 3. Is there ODBC/JDBC driver (bridge) support for FreeBSD? Any pointers > to who might provide it if it exists? None that I'm aware of, although I understand mySQL or miniSQL has a JDBC driver that might work. > 1. Are you aware whether there a JIT for the FreeBSD Java JDK port? No, the SUN sources do not include a JIT. However, kaffe (in ports) is a JIT/VM implementation, so you might check it out. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 00:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21449 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21441 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01565; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:12:17 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:12:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: Terry Lambert cc: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , zenin@archive.rhps.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: <199808202142.OAA26941@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > is too good to be true. Blame it on differences in configuration. > > This is the "Yard" thing, where 100 byte packets fly in FreeBSD > when TCP_NODELAY is set on the server. > > The thing that is killing Linux is their delayed ack implementation. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org By the way, do you know how the delayed ack is implemented in Linux ? do yo think that there is the same problem with linux but handled differently ? -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 00:15:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21796 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA23606 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Not to mention that on a large number of programs, memory shortage is > fatal so the block will be free'd soon anyway. Like a web server deciding to return a 'short on resources' error? Kernel that is supposed to run for years? Vi trying to extend this one megabyte line for yet another character and failing and saying 'BEEP: cannot load file? I don't think so. Nick -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 00:24:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23705 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id JAA03050; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:23:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from w@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01247; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:59:09 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from w) Message-ID: <19980820125908.A1183@panke.de> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:59:08 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t References: <199808192055.OAA22367@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 07:24:27PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-08-19 19:24:27 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > ps. The reason NetBSD doesn't have this is the same reason their CVS > > > > tree is not public. The code in their CVS tree is *still* pre-Lite > > > > bits, let alone Lite/Lite2. (Though I suspect they've imported some of > > > > the bits from both, though obviously not all of them.....) > > > > > > They have most of the userland Lite/2 code, at least. I've not looked > > > at their kernel. > > > > The kernel code is what the lawsuit was all about...... > > just for my interest, do you have a URL to info about this? There are press releases from UCB and BSDI. See http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/ftp/releases/UCB_USL_lawsuit_settled and http://www.de.freebsd.org/de/ftp/releases/USL_BSDI_Lawsuit_Resolved Wolfram To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 00:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24096 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA23845; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:26:16 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:26:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Warner Losh cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808210309.VAA26640@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > #include > > void * > frealloc(void *ptr, size_t size) > { > void *nptr; > > nptr = realloc(ptr, size); > if (!nptr && ptr) > free(ptr); > return (nptr); > } > > which does try to avoid calling free(NULL). > > Warner What about using a define in stdlib.h: #define reallocf(ptr, size) \ { \ void *nptr; \ nptr = realloc(ptr,size); \ if ( !nptr && ptr ) \ free(ptr) \ nptr \ } Or at least, something along those lines. Nick P.S.: About name space pollution: What about calling it reallocAndFreeAfterwardsIfReallocFails You won't need a man page... -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 01:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:06:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00967 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA05150; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:06:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:06:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Login w/ NFS-imported Home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA00968 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 Aug 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > Konrad Heuer writes: > > On one of my FreeBSD boxes (2.2.6-R) all user home directories are > > NFS-imported without root access (root mapped to nobody). Login fails (`no > > home directory') if the user doesn't give at least mode 755 to his/her > > home. I modified login.c to overcome this. > > Please submit a PR with this patch. Sorry. I didn't remember send-pr. Next time I will. In the meantime, I fetched the corresponding sources in 2.2-stable from an ftp site and found the problem fixed there. Please forget about my first mail. Konrad Heuer // Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH // Goettingen (GWDG), Am Fassberg, D-37077 Goettingen, Germany // // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 02:19:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:19:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.online.samara.ru (SamaraOnline.customers.samara.net [195.128.128.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06968 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from igor@ns.online.samara.ru) Received: (from igor@localhost) by ns.online.samara.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA26841 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:17:46 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. From: "System Administrator" Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 14:17:46 +0000 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Subject: read timeout Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i read from tty: fd = open(/dev/cuaa0, O_RDWR) n = read(fd, &c, 1) may I set timeout in which read wait data ? if no data read must return 0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 02:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07207 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.online.samara.ru (SamaraOnline.customers.samara.net [195.128.128.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07152 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from igor@ns.online.samara.ru) Received: (from igor@localhost) by ns.online.samara.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA26844 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:18:31 GMT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. From: "System Administrator" Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 14:18:31 +0000 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Subject: sound card programming Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I need play file on the sound card and record to file from sound card. Where I can find examples of source code for this ? I have fbsd 2.2.6 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 02:27:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07936 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07930 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id LAA14172; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:23:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:23:47 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Thorpe Cc: "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller References: <199808201749.KAA14321@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 21 Aug 1998 11:23:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jason Thorpe's message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:49:21 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA07931 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Thorpe writes: > Uh, IIRC, the 3940 is a card with: > > a PCI-PCI bridge > 2 2940s Wrong. The AHA3940's controller chip is an AIC7895, whereas the AHA2940 uses the AIC7870 (and the AHA2940UW uses the AIC7880). FWIW, here's what Adaptec calls these chips: AIC7860/7870: (couldn't find the glossies) AIC7880: PCI local bus-to-UltraSCSI single-chip bus master host adapter (pin compatible with the 7870) AIC7890/7891: Single-chip PCI-to-Ultra2 SCSI Host Adapters AIC7895: MultiChannel[tm] Single-Chip Ultra SCSI for High-Performance Server I/O DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 02:31:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08348 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id LAA14611; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:27:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:27:07 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: housley@pr-comm.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Controller References: <199808201918.NAA15757@panzer.plutotech.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 21 Aug 1998 11:27:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Kenneth D. Merry"'s message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:18:46 -0600 (MDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA08355 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Kenneth D. Merry" writes: > That is not quite correct. It depends on what kind of 3940 you > have. There is a new board, the 3940AUW, with a 7895 on board. That will > only work with CAM. The regular 3940UW has two 7880s behind a DEC bridge > chip. It will work with the old SCSI code as well as with CAM. I stand corrected. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 02:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10200 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10193 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06539; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:50:21 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:50:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: support@yard.de Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD problem (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I still have many problems with Yard/FreeBSD. I sent my programs / database to Yard last wednesday. they did some testing on their version (FreeBSD 2.1.6) It worked really fine except for a few slow down. (for him 350 seconds on a pentium 133) For me on 3.0-980594-SNAP and FreeBSD-2.2.5-STABLE it's still unusable (I stopped the program after 25 minutes on a Pentium II 333). We are writing some application that we are planning to bundle with the Yard SQL engine. I can't imagine that I would have to tell my clients that to run our applications they have to install the FreeBSD source code and modify the kernel and rebuild it. do you have any idea on how we could definitively solve this problem for 2.2.X and 3.X versions of FreeBSD ? -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I ran your program on our system and it shows a similar behaviour as you describe. Below is the vmstat output, which indicates the hanging moments with an idle time of > 50%. But these moments don't seem to be that awful. In total your program took 350 seconds on a 133 MHz Pentium. If the reason for this behaviour is in fact the 100 byte problem mentioned by one the FreeBSD guys, the only possible way to solve it would be to set ack_delayed=1 (in the kernel?). Anything we at YARD can do? Regards Thomas Schonhoven PS.: I'll be back in office on Friday. $ vmstat 2 200 procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr s0 s1 c0 f0 in sy cs us sy id 3 0 0 79484 34224 9 1 0 0 6 0 2 0 0 0 233 54 13 1 0 98 2 0 0 83792 34088 19 9 0 0 0 0 21 0 0 0 350 4815 1618 66 29 5 1 0 0 83956 33924 21 4 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 341 5120 1736 67 31 1 2 0 0 84096 33772 22 18 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 333 4983 1686 72 26 2 1 0 0 80028 33620 21 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 343 5048 1714 67 32 2 2 0 0 80176 33472 23 10 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 332 4954 1667 72 26 2 1 0 0 71404 33324 19 3 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 336 5048 1714 63 34 2 1 0 0 71552 33176 20 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5032 1717 66 32 2 1 0 0 71692 33036 19 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 334 5015 1677 66 33 1 1 0 0 71844 32884 20 1 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 340 4991 1693 66 32 2 1 0 0 63400 32736 20 6 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 335 5042 1684 71 28 0 2 0 0 59372 32584 20 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 336 4998 1700 66 32 2 2 0 0 59520 32436 19 8 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 335 4992 1677 66 33 2 2 0 0 59664 32292 19 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 338 5019 1722 68 30 2 2 0 0 59812 32144 19 6 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 337 4974 1660 69 29 2 1 0 0 64140 32000 19 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 340 5102 1745 66 33 1 2 0 0 72720 31848 149 9 0 0 110 0 10 0 0 0 338 4937 1637 68 30 2 2 0 0 72868 31700 19 2 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 339 4962 1683 66 31 3 1 0 0 73012 31556 19 3 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 344 5021 1721 62 37 1 1 0 0 73084 31484 13 8 0 0 0 0 38 0 0 0 316 2615 840 32 18 50 2 0 0 73164 31400 15 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 283 2546 874 37 13 50 1 0 0 73308 31256 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5040 1718 64 35 1 2 0 0 73456 31108 19 6 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 336 4908 1647 66 33 1 1 0 0 73604 30960 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 339 5021 1705 72 27 0 2 0 0 73748 30816 19 5 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 333 4968 1674 70 30 1 2 0 0 69716 30664 20 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5045 1719 67 32 1 1 0 0 61428 30520 19 3 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 333 4982 1673 72 27 1 1 0 0 61580 30368 20 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 336 5081 1739 67 31 1 3 0 0 61728 30220 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 336 4990 1681 67 32 2 1 0 0 61876 30072 19 4 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 334 5000 1658 71 28 1 0 0 0 66124 30004 10 0 0 0 0 0 31 0 0 0 310 2339 751 29 14 57 0 0 0 70376 29928 10 0 0 0 0 0 21 0 0 0 304 2542 868 34 16 50 2 0 0 70464 29840 12 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 290 2858 952 42 16 43 2 0 0 70608 29696 19 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 341 5064 1718 68 31 1 2 0 0 70760 29544 20 3 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 334 4973 1654 69 30 1 2 0 0 70908 29396 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5005 1697 69 30 1 2 0 0 71056 29248 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 336 4996 1701 72 27 1 2 0 0 71200 29104 19 3 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 333 4980 1668 70 30 1 1 0 0 71348 28956 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5041 1721 66 33 1 2 0 0 71500 28804 20 5 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 334 4979 1678 69 30 1 1 0 0 67456 28664 18 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 333 5044 1715 66 33 0 2 0 0 63436 28504 21 1 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 338 4949 1650 67 31 2 2 0 0 63580 28360 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 336 5033 1708 66 33 1 2 0 0 63724 28216 19 4 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 337 4964 1659 69 29 1 2 0 0 63880 28060 20 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 334 5016 1700 63 35 2 2 0 0 68204 27920 18 1 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 335 4988 1671 72 27 1 1 0 0 76784 27772 21 0 0 0 1 0 12 0 0 0 344 5016 1695 70 30 1 1 0 0 76932 27624 19 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 343 4980 1683 65 33 2 1 0 0 77072 27484 18 3 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 340 4868 1626 64 33 4 1 0 0 77224 27332 20 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 340 5035 1697 67 32 1 2 1 0 77368 27188 19 5 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 336 4907 1654 72 27 2 0 0 0 77372 27184 1 0 0 0 0 0 39 0 0 0 275 397 81 3 2 95 1 0 0 77516 27040 19 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 332 4789 1605 66 29 5 1 0 0 77664 26892 19 2 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 339 4928 1648 68 31 1 2 0 0 77808 26748 19 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 337 5024 1709 63 36 1 1 0 0 73772 26600 19 5 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 334 4977 1666 68 30 2 2 0 0 65492 26448 20 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 337 5028 1703 63 36 1 -- ///!! ///!! //!! ////////////!! ///////////!! ///!! ///!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! //////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!////!! ///////////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! //////////!! ///!! ///!! //////!! ///!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! //////////////!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ///!! ////!! ////!! ////!! ///!! ///!! ///////////!! YARD Software GmbH YARD Software Ltd. Wikingerstr. 18 - 20 Wikingerstr. 18 - 20 51107 Koeln 51107 Cologne Tel.: +4922198664-0 FAX.: +4922198664-99 E-Mail: support@yard.de FTP : ftp.yard.de WWW : http://www.yard.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 03:07:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11866 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d5.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11853 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06039; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:02:33 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808210302.DAA06039@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "System Administrator" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: read timeout In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:17:46 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:02:15 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i read from tty: > fd = open(/dev/cuaa0, O_RDWR) > n = read(fd, &c, 1) > may I set timeout in which read wait data ? > if no data read must return 0 Go to www.amazon.com, or some other suitable bookstore, and purchase a copy of "Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment" by W. Richard Stevens. It will answer not only the above question, but many others that you will have. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 03:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14169 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA15118; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:19:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199808211019.GAA15118@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review In-Reply-To: <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Aug 20, 98 10:19:42 am" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new > function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use > this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added > it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in > POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy > right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. As long as you are changing the code, how about adding a non-posix header so that there is a well defined place to hang the implementation on another system? In my opinion, believing that a non-standard interface is needed should dictate a non-standard header. It adds an amount of damping in adding non-posix things. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 03:34:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14947 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:34:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA15161; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199808211029.GAA15161@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Trapping memory In-Reply-To: <199808201558.PAA00613@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Aug 20, 98 03:58:26 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Cc: matthew@wolfepub.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A root compromise would be able to defeat the detection mechanism. > > You could increase the difficulty of recovering the key slightly by > obfuscating its storage, but protecting it completely would require > kernel modifications which could be reversed/removed/faked around by a > sufficiently persistent attacker. There are other advantages to having a clean interface for unmapping kernel data structures such as activating access to a subsystem data structure only when you know the subsystem is active. For all I know we have such an interface already. However, the easier it is to use the easier the defeat will be, and there is always physical memory access anyway. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 03:39:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15457 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:39:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA15452 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27435 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:21:14 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id MAA26189; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:23:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199808211023.MAA26189@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: TMC-950 scsi card In-Reply-To: <35DCD654.4B865F4C@speednet.com.au> from Andy Farkas at "Aug 21, 98 12:07:16 pm" To: andyf@speednet.com.au (Andy Farkas) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Andy Farkas wrote... > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > This is all somewhat moot. Do you see someone out there who wants to > > develop a driver for the TMS-950 card? I sure don't, nor have I over > > the 2+ years I've seen people asking for such support. :) > > The reason I asked which driver went with the card in the first place > was because it is listed as a supported adapter in section 2.1.1 of the > Handbook. Which in my view tells us to clean up the list of supported hardware. As soon as CAM gets into the mainstream code base it would be a good idea to check this. And before someone yells at me: I can probably do some work there, but currently I don't have the cycles available. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 04:50:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 04:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA21934 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@synx.com) Received: from synx.com (rn [192.1.1.241]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA18508; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:48:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199808211148.MAA18508@bsd.synx.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:48:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Remy NONNENMACHER Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD problem (fwd) To: didier@omnix.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21 Aug, Didier Derny wrote: Didier, In an unmodified kernel (prior to sysctlized delayed_ack), the delayed ack is always turned ON and the 101-207 bytes problem exists. TCP_NODELAY option helps the following way : case TCP_NODELAY OFF : T Application TCP-client TCP-server DBMS 0 write(...., 150) ---> packet(100) ---> packet(100) --> read()=100 | (delay 200ms) | ack <--- ack | packet(50) ---> packet(50) --> read()=50 | X read()= <---- packet(n) <--- packet(n)+ack <-- DB-reply(n) in the case, X= 200ms + epsilon (epsilon = neglected net+DBMS+internal processing time). case TCP_NODELAY ON : T Application TCP-client TCP-server DBMS 0 write(...., 150) ---> packet(100) ---> packet(100) --> read()=100 packet(50) ---> packet(50) --> read()=50 | X read()= <---- packet(n) <--- packet(n)+ack <-- DB-reply(n) Now, X=0 + epsilon = epsilon. If you still have the problem, we can be almost sure that TCP_NODELAY *is* OFF on one or either side. (I don't remember having been said that it must be ON on *either* side, BTW). Having the 101-207 bytes problem resolved needs a kernel modification and a great ancient aprobatur. If nobody takes on it, i offer to (as i run on it very often and it tires me). Anyway, this doesn't match your requirement of running with an old kernel version. Yard told you that they checked this TCP_NODELAY option against inheritence reseting. If a last chance Yard's code review doesn't reveal a problem (accepte()d, fork()ed, etc....), I offer to analyse two tcpdump trace of the same session: one from you and one took on the machine at Yard, then review kernel codes of the two FreeBSD versions you (and yard) use. (Note to Yard: thanks for supporting FreeBSD). RN. > Hi, > > I still have many problems with Yard/FreeBSD. > > I sent my programs / database to Yard last wednesday. > they did some testing on their version (FreeBSD 2.1.6) > It worked really fine except for a few slow down. > > (for him 350 seconds on a pentium 133) > > For me on 3.0-980594-SNAP and FreeBSD-2.2.5-STABLE > it's still unusable (I stopped the program after > 25 minutes on a Pentium II 333). > > We are writing some application that we are planning to > bundle with the Yard SQL engine. > > I can't imagine that I would have to tell my clients that > to run our applications they have to install the FreeBSD > source code and modify the kernel and rebuild it. > > do you have any idea on how we could definitively solve this > problem for 2.2.X and 3.X versions of FreeBSD ? > > -- > Didier Derny > didier@omnix.net > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > I ran your program on our system and it shows a similar behaviour as you > describe. Below is the vmstat output, which indicates the hanging moments with > an idle time of > 50%. But these moments don't seem to be that awful. > In total your program took 350 seconds on a 133 MHz Pentium. > > If the reason for this behaviour is in fact the 100 byte problem mentioned by > one the FreeBSD guys, the only possible way to solve it would be to > set ack_delayed=1 (in the kernel?). Anything we at YARD can do? > > Regards > > Thomas Schonhoven > > PS.: I'll be back in office on Friday. > > > $ vmstat 2 200 > procs memory page disks faults cpu > r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr s0 s1 c0 f0 in sy cs us sy id > 3 0 0 79484 34224 9 1 0 0 6 0 2 0 0 0 233 54 13 1 0 98 > 2 0 0 83792 34088 19 9 0 0 0 0 21 0 0 0 350 4815 1618 66 29 5 > 1 0 0 83956 33924 21 4 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 341 5120 1736 67 31 1 > 2 0 0 84096 33772 22 18 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 333 4983 1686 72 26 2 > ...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 05:41:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27851 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27846 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12228; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:40:52 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:40:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny To: Remy NONNENMACHER cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@yard.de Subject: Re: Yard/FreeBSD problem (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199808211148.MAA18508@bsd.synx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Remy NONNENMACHER wrote: > > Yard told you that they checked this TCP_NODELAY option against > inheritence reseting. If a last chance Yard's code review doesn't > reveal a problem (accepte()d, fork()ed, etc....), I offer to analyse > two tcpdump trace of the same session: one from you and one took on the > machine at Yard, then review kernel codes of the two FreeBSD versions > you (and yard) use. > > (Note to Yard: thanks for supporting FreeBSD). > Thanks for your help, Yard is preparing for me a special version of FreeBSD with a hook too be able to set the socket options. According to their tests their last modifications (TCP_NODELAY) works fine on FreeBSD 2.1.6. but not with FreeBSD 3.0. As they are building everything on a FreeBSD 2.1.6 machine the idea is that an incompatibility between the librairies could be at the origin this problem. Another solution would probably be to build Yard on FreeBSD 3.0 machine. I can create a telnet account on my system but I dont think that they would accept this solution. (they probably fear to see theirs source code stolen while they are working). -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (tick.ssec.wisc.edu [144.92.108.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09594 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dglo@tick.ssec.wisc.edu) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tick.ssec.wisc.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17690; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:10:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Glowacki Message-Id: <199808211410.JAA17690@tick.ssec.wisc.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Melora Svoboda Subject: Re: [Fwd: ODBC/JDBC and FreeBSD] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:00:05 MDT." <199808210600.AAA10439@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:10:53 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > 3. Is there ODBC/JDBC driver (bridge) support for FreeBSD? Any pointers > > to who might provide it if it exists? > > None that I'm aware of, although I understand mySQL or miniSQL has a > JDBC driver that might work. I wrote a Java program over a year ago that's been stuffing several MB of data per day into a miniSQL DB using mSQL-JDBC. You can get it from http://www.imaginary.com/Java/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:27:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11530 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11523 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11308; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:26:55 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA11625; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:26:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980821162647.47092@follo.net> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:26:47 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Warner Losh , Brian Somers Cc: Archie Cobbs , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review References: <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> <199808210309.VAA26640@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199808210309.VAA26640@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 09:08:59PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 09:08:59PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199808210107.CAA13727@awfulhak.org> Brian Somers writes: > : AFAIK not all free() implementations ignore a NULL pointer (although > : FreeBSD's does). But then, not all realloc() implementations allow a > : NULL either (FreeBSD's does) :-/ > > free(NULL); is required to be valid by tha ANSI standard. I don't > know about the realloc(NULL, s); case, however. Required. The same goes for realloc(pointer, 0) being the same as free(). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:40:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13181 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA04215 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:39:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199808211439.HAA04215@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: <199808202213.PAA28422@usr04.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Terry Lambert >Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:13:48 +0000 (GMT) >> > If time_t were 48 bits, when would we be running into *that* limit? >> In about four million years. I think all of us will probably have to >> newfs our drives by then. :-) >In 40 years, none of the COBOL programs we write will still be running... Terry, Terry.... In Jean Sammet's paper from the first "History of Programming Languages" conference, entitled "The Early History of COBOL" (incorporated on pp. 199-243 of _History of Programming Languages_, which I keep at my desk), it is clear that the COBOL language was a result of the "Short-Range Committee" [from pp. 201 - 203]: ...Note that the mission of the Short-Range Committee (see Fig. 2) was to *explore* and "to recommend a short-range composite approach (good for at least the next year or two)." That paper is copyright 1981 (Association for Computing Machinery), and the excerpt quoted refers to activities occurring 28-29 May, 1959. That said, there are only a couple of programs I've designed that I subsequently implemented in COBOL (though assembly for the IBM s/3[679]0 comes uncomfortably close, sometimes :-}), and I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to repeat that experience. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:45:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13921 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13916 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@Dataplex.NET) Received: from [208.2.87.13] (gw000-128.dataplex.net [208.2.87.13]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04582; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:44:31 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199808192213.WAA00579@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:35:51 -0500 To: Garance A Drosihn From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Mike Smith , joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:40 PM -0500 8/20/98, Garance A Drosihn wrote: >At 1:47 AM -0400 8/20/98, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: >>On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: >> >>> > by at least one unit (255ths, 1024ths, whatever), and then only >>> > resort to using duplicate times when it is forced to by benchmark >>> > programs that touch 1024 files per second just for kicks? >>> >>> It could simply be defeated by finding another pathalogical example. >>> Higher time resolution is the only way to fix it correctly. >> >> Sufficiently pathalogical examples defeat static resolutions (ie. >> any resolution that doesn't become finer as necessary). > >First, let me reiterate that I do believe it would be good to >have resolution better than 1 second... > >Having said that though, pathological situations make this pretty >much impossible to resolve, even if you have infinite precision >of when every file was last changed. Consider: > cc is compiling something.c, and reads in important.h > while cc is still compiling, some other process (maybe > running on a second CPU) modifies important.h > cc finishes, and writes out something.o > result: That something.o was *effectively* compiled with > the old important.h, even though the timestamps > of the two files would imply that something.o is > more recent than the new version of important.h > >So, even infinite resolution won't really solve all the >pathological cases. Completely solving them would get >rather tricky, and probably involves changes to the 'make' >command. You are correct that time precision, by itself, will never solve the multi-processor race condition that you describe. Rather than use the completion time of the operation, we should be using the starting time. This, coupled with the requirement, in "make" that the result always be "newer", by at least one tick, than each of its inputs will cause the results to be correct. Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:48:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14539 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14512 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00749; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:48:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: System Administrator cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: read timeout In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG man select man poll yes it's quite possible ;) Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, System Administrator wrote: > i read from tty: > fd = open(/dev/cuaa0, O_RDWR) > n = read(fd, &c, 1) > may I set timeout in which read wait data ? > if no data read must return 0 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 07:50:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14965 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00763; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:50:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:50:54 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: System Administrator cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sound card programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i'm pretty sure you can do both via reading/writing from /dev/dsp* if you need to do something, i suggest you grab an audio utility from the ports collection and look at its source code. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, System Administrator wrote: > I need play file on the sound card and record to file > from sound card. Where I can find examples of source code for this ? > I have fbsd 2.2.6 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 08:25:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (ts02-088.dublin.indigo.ie [194.125.134.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20858 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:25:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA01819 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:19:01 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) From: Niall Smart Message-Id: <199808211519.QAA01819@indigo.ie> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:18:58 +0000 Reply-To: rotel@indigo.ie X-Files: The truth is out there X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Generating backtrace from kernel panic Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A 2.2.7-RELEASE machine recently paniced on me, I had dumpon/savecore enabled but hadn't built the kernel with debugging symbols, so I rm'd *.o in compile, added -g to COPTFLAGS and remade the kernel, but I still can't get a backtrace: (kgdb) symbol-file /usr/src/stable/src/sys/compile/GINSENG/kernel Reading symbols from /usr/src/stable/src/sys/compile/GINSENG/kernel...done. (kgdb) exec-file kernel.1 (kgdb) core-file vmcore.1 IdlePTD 1e5000 current pcb at 1c6d98 panic: page fault #0 boot (howto=Cannot access memory at address 0xefbffcb4. ) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:268 268 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=Cannot access memory at address 0xefbffcb4. ) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:268 Cannot access memory at address 0xefbffcb0. (kgdb) x/a $ebp + 4 0xefbffcb0: Cannot access memory at address 0xefbffcb0. (kgdb) x/4i boot 0xf0119750 : pushl %ebp 0xf0119751 : movl %esp,%ebp 0xf0119753 : pushl %edi 0xf0119754 : pushl %esi As you can see it was not compiled with -fomit-frame-pointer. Is there anything else I can try? Niall -- Niall Smart, rotel@indigo.ie. Amaze your friends and annoy your enemies: echo '#define if(x) if (!(x))' >> /usr/include/stdio.h To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 10:52:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08235 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08230 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA10961; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:51:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199808211751.TAA10961@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Belits cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:17:49 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:51:10 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. > > > > Sorry Alex, but you're simply wrong there. > > While I definitely know that Linux NFS client is in kernel, it will be > very interesting to hear, how NFS can be implemented completely outside of > kernel. That is easy. Search the net for nfsd-server-2.1 for a example. From the readme: This package implements a simple user level NFS server based on the sunrpc3.9 package that was posted to the net a few months ago. The current version only provides read access from the clients. It has been tested between a VAX11/780 running 4.3BSD (the server) and several diskful SUN3/60 running SunOS 3.4 (the clients) and on a diskless SUN3/50 running SunOS 3.2 remounting its own root at a lower level of its file hierarchy. The server is implemented by two programs unfsd and unfsmntd. Unfsmntd handles the mount protocol, and unfsd handles all sub- sequent operations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 11:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10490 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10452 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA05293; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199808211810.LAA05293@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rkw@Dataplex.NET Subject: Re: proposal to not change time_t In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:35:51 -0500 >From: Richard Wackerbarth >You are correct that time precision, by itself, will never solve the >multi-processor race condition that you describe. >Rather than use the completion time of the operation, we should be using >the starting time. This, coupled with the requirement, in "make" that >the result always be "newer", by at least one tick, than each of its >inputs will cause the results to be correct. I would expect that if you're concerned with timestamps generated by multi-processing systems, that it might be worth considering using a CPU number as the last few bits of the timestamp -- beyond the accuracy of anything "real" -- as a tie-breaker. As I recall, this is the technique IBM used on the s/3x0 "store clock" instruction.... david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 11:46:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15027 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:46:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15019 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:46:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA30223; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:47:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:47:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Mattias Pantzare cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-Reply-To: <199808211751.TAA10961@zed.ludd.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Mattias Pantzare wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. > > > > > > Sorry Alex, but you're simply wrong there. > > > > While I definitely know that Linux NFS client is in kernel, it will be > > very interesting to hear, how NFS can be implemented completely outside of > > kernel. > > That is easy. Search the net for nfsd-server-2.1 for a example. From > the readme: > > This package implements a simple user level NFS server based on the > sunrpc3.9 package that was posted to the net a few months ago. The But where is userspace client that works as a filesystem? -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 12:36:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20464 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@obie.ludd.luth.se) Received: from obie.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@obie.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.24]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA14219; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:35:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199808211935.VAA14219@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Belits cc: Mattias Pantzare , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pantzer@obie.ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD (performances) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:47:07 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:35:33 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Mattias Pantzare wrote: > > > > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > > > 1. Linux NFS client is, and always was, in kernel. > > > > > > > > Sorry Alex, but you're simply wrong there. > > > > > > While I definitely know that Linux NFS client is in kernel, it will be > > > very interesting to hear, how NFS can be implemented completely outside of > > > kernel. > > > > That is easy. Search the net for nfsd-server-2.1 for a example. From > > the readme: > > > > This package implements a simple user level NFS server based on the > > sunrpc3.9 package that was posted to the net a few months ago. The > > But where is userspace client that works as a filesystem? Bah! Don't write client when I read server! :-) You are right. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 12:45:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spawn.nectar.com (spawn.nectar.com [204.27.67.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21381 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Received: from localhost.nectar.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=spawn.nectar.com) by spawn.nectar.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for hackers@freebsd.org id 0z9x73-0000BV-00; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:44:41 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine Subject: current.freebsd.org unreachable for me To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:44:41 -0500 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi, Is anyone else having trouble getting to current.freebsd.org? I usually get there via CRL, but today I see my traffic is going through Alternet and then ``accglobal.net,'' then black- holing. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNd3OKTeRhT8JRySpAQFmGQQAnByjsqw6zMEZ2zKIEjDJe73dYTFIVpH9 7A0GlL/55SNrVTSMfV0QioO4ugJuJ5OJqPJUOm7NyMa5GTaxHdvcYL+0LgPS1ZST E42nKjlhFm++rOn7djb43Lx5JtYMOQgskYCmToVfbwgIEfVHnOJm5nk6UGWlBmP7 Y1AuZ7dqUo8= =7MDX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 13:03:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23599 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23590 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA12614 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Questions about FFS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am reading page 278-279 of the 4.4 BSD book on block and fragment management in FFS and I am quite confused with it: (1) (page 278) If file contains no fragmented blocks (and the final block in the file contains insufficient space to hold the new data). If space exists in *a block* already allocated, ... Does this mean that the file does not share any blocks with other files? How do you know which part of a block belong to which file if more than one small file do share a block (any pointers)? Also, I think the "a block" should be the final block. (2) (page 278) The file contains one or more fragments (and the fragments contain insufficient space to hold the new data)... I guess that these fragments must be contiguous and appear only at the end of any file with fragments. Am I right? (3) (page 278) to avoid excessive copying for slowly growing files, the file system allows only direct blocks of files to refer to fragments. I am totaly confused with this statement. (4) (page 279) if enough of the rest of the current block is free, the filesystem can avoid a copy by using that block. The contents of the existing fragments, appended with the new data, are written into the allocated space. If the block refers to the block where the existing fragments exist, then why write the existing fragments again? Only the new data needs to be written after the existing data. Therefore, there seems to be a contradictary in the above paragraph. It says "avoid a copy". Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 13:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27304 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:43:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22898; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808212041.NAA22898@implode.root.com> To: Jacques Vidrine cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: current.freebsd.org unreachable for me In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:44:41 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:41:28 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Is anyone else having trouble getting to current.freebsd.org? >I usually get there via CRL, but today I see my traffic is >going through Alternet and then ``accglobal.net,'' then black- >holing. current.freebsd.org points to make.ican.net, which is reached via Alternet. There seems to be a tremendous amount of congestion at the US-CA boarder and the machine appears to be down as well. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 13:50:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28428 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28381 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:50:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05080; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35DDDD3C.D50819C7@dal.net> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:49:00 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: rotel@indigo.ie, mike@smith.net.au, Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C and static initialization with unions References: <199808081410.HAA13932@usr02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > The problem here is that "largely" is just as uncompilable as "not at > > > all". > > > > Is it? How many developers care that isn't possible? > > Only the ones actually doing work with modern developement tools. I could (were I not bound by NDA, etc.) name 3 projects off the top of my head that are loathe to extend their development to FreeBSD because of the difficulty in using modern development tools (like egcs, and a couple others) and lack of thread support. When one of them is asked why they aren't planning a FreeBSD implementation their standard answer is, "It is too difficult to produce a binary that performs even to our minimum standards, and therefore it isn't cost effective for us." Whether this is important to you or not is entirely dependent on what you want FreeBSD to be in the next five years. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there. - Yiddish Proverb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 16:12:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orion.aye.net (orion.aye.net [206.185.8.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12626 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rabtter@orion.aye.net) Received: (qmail 6325 invoked by uid 3759); 21 Aug 1998 23:12:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "B. Richardson" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: I want to break binary compatibility. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all services except http. The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? - Barrett Richardson rabtter@orion.aye.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 16:47:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15261; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199808212347.QAA15261@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-Reply-To: from "B. Richardson" at "Aug 21, 98 07:12:40 pm" To: rabtter@aye.net (B. Richardson) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG one fast way to do this it to scamble the syscall table and recompile everything. you will not be able to run any of the new binaries till you build a new kernel to match. heard this idea from mary murray. any mistakes or umisunderstandings are mine. jmb B. Richardson wrote: > > > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. > > The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at > any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and > was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). > > The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to > bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are > going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? > > > - > > Barrett Richardson rabtter@orion.aye.net > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 16:54:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16155 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA16116; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:03:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199808220003.KAA16116@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-Reply-To: from "B. Richardson" at "Aug 21, 98 07:12:40 pm" To: rabtter@aye.net (B. Richardson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:03:55 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG B. Richardson wrote: > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? Since you have all the sources to the kernel, you have control over what executable formats the kernel will recognize. Why not try your own binary format that differs in a way known only by you? You could create a tool that converts an aout or elf executable into your proprietary format. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 17:12:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:12:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19426 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05667; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:09:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199808220009.CAA05667@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-Reply-To: from "B. Richardson" at "Aug 21, 98 07:12:40 pm" To: rabtter@aye.net (B. Richardson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:09:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to B. Richardson: > > > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. > > The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at > any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and > was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). > > The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to > bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are > going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? One simple way could be to just change the "magic number" on the binaries, maybe, and disable all linux compat, etc? /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 17:30:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d3.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22432 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11031; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:27:17 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808211727.RAA11031@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Studded cc: Terry Lambert , rotel@indigo.ie, mike@smith.net.au, Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C and static initialization with unions In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:49:00 MST." <35DDDD3C.D50819C7@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:27:16 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I could (were I not bound by NDA, etc.) name 3 projects off the top of > my head that are loathe to extend their development to FreeBSD because > of the difficulty in using modern development tools (like egcs, and a > couple others) and lack of thread support. When one of them is asked why > they aren't planning a FreeBSD implementation their standard answer is, > "It is too difficult to produce a binary that performs even to our > minimum standards, and therefore it isn't cost effective for us." As a compiler, egcs is no better than our thread support. Attacking Terry over this, when his employer is one of the major sponsors of thread-related development on FreeBSD, seems a little misdirected. > Whether this is important to you or not is entirely dependent on what > you want FreeBSD to be in the next five years. Is it important to *you*? Do you feel like contributing? (Rhetorical question only.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 17:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23481 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@www.hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA03042; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:37:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:37:09 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Mikael Karpberg cc: "B. Richardson" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-Reply-To: <199808220009.CAA05667@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hrm, how's about doing that, but instead of giving an error, you shutdown the system and flush all logs. sounds bad, but might help you catch them in the act. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to B. Richardson: > > > > > > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > > services except http. > > > > The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at > > any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and > > was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). > > > > The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to > > bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are > > going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. > > > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? > > One simple way could be to just change the "magic number" on the binaries, > maybe, and disable all linux compat, etc? > > /Mikael > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 18:03:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27457 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d3.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27451 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11270; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:00:46 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808211800.SAA11270@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "B. Richardson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:12:40 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:00:45 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. > > The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at > any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and > was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). > > The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to > bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are > going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? Sure. You can change any number of reasonably subtle things (eg. syscall numbers) to achieve this. However, if they are able to steal a binary from your box and possess any real talent (as opposed to being a malevolent bunch of script kiddies) they will be able to reverse-engineer most of these changes fairly quickly. The first thing you should be trying to establish is how they might be getting *in*. If all you have active is http, you should be analysing any CGIs that you have very closely, as well as making sure that your server is up to date. You might also want to install a firewall if you haven't already. See eg. www.gnatbox.com for a solid and straightforward solution (also based on FreeBSD, just coincidentally). You should also be spending some effort on actually determining who the perpetrators *are*, as their activities are extremely illegal, and you may be able to obtain legal satisfaction if you can identify them. Good luck! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 18:48:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:48:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gimli.cs.uct.ac.za (gimli.cs.uct.ac.za [137.158.128.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03725 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwest@gimli.cs.uct.ac.za) Received: from mwest (helo=localhost) by gimli.cs.uct.ac.za with local-smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zA2md-0004b5-00; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:47:59 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:47:58 +0200 (SAST) From: Matthew West To: "B. Richardson" cc: Cc: ; Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG B. Richardson wrote: > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. [snip] > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? You can achieve pretty much the same effect by mounting /home and /tmp noexec. Additionally, do a search for suid files and remove any that are not necessary: # find / -perm \( -perm -u+s -or -perm -g+s \) -print (or take the section from /etc/security). --mwest@cs.uct.ac.za http://www.cs.uct.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 18:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from metronet.com (fohnix.metronet.com [192.245.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA03911 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:50:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pgilley@metronet.com) Received: from localhost by metronet.com with SMTP id AA19108 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for ); Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:50:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:50:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Phil Gilley To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Stupidity or compiler bug? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Am I doing something really stupid here or is this a compiler bug? The output of this program under 2.2.7-RELEASE is "1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4" which isn't what I was expecting. "1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8" is what I was hoping for. #include #include #include #include #include void main() { struct ip iph; iph.ip_src.s_addr = ntohl(0x01020304); iph.ip_dst.s_addr = ntohl(0x05060708); printf("%s %s\n", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_src), inet_ntoa(iph.ip_dst)); } Phil Gilley pgilley@metronet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 19:07:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06781 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d3.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06767 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11658; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:05:18 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808211905.TAA11658@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Phil Gilley cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stupidity or compiler bug? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:50:37 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:05:17 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Am I doing something really stupid here or is this a compiler bug? > The output of this program under 2.2.7-RELEASE is "1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4" > which isn't what I was expecting. "1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8" is what I was > hoping for. > > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > > void main() { > struct ip iph; > > iph.ip_src.s_addr = ntohl(0x01020304); > iph.ip_dst.s_addr = ntohl(0x05060708); > > printf("%s %s\n", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_src), inet_ntoa(iph.ip_dst)); > } inet_ntoa returns a pointer to a static buffer. gcc is evaluating arguments right to left (ie. in stacking order), so the ip_src call is made last, but the pointer is the same in both cases. Try: printf("%s ", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_src)); printf("%s\n", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_dst)); or use strdup() if your real intent is to pass the strings around. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 19:24:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from metronet.com (fohnix.metronet.com [192.245.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09028 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pgilley@metronet.com) Received: from localhost by metronet.com with SMTP id AA27181 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for ); Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:24:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:24:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Phil Gilley To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stupidity or compiler bug? In-Reply-To: <199808211905.TAA11658@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > inet_ntoa returns a pointer to a static buffer. Yes, I was being stupid. Thanks, Phil Gilley pgilley@metronet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 19:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09893 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA08316; Fri, 21 Aug 98 22:30:43 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id WAA13436; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:30:37 -0400 Message-Id: <19980821223036.A13406@astro.psu.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:30:36 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Phil Gilley , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stupidity or compiler bug? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Phil Gilley on Fri, Aug 21, 1998 at 08:50:37PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Aug 21, 1998 at 08:50:37PM -0500, Phil Gilley wrote: > printf("%s %s\n", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_src), inet_ntoa(iph.ip_dst)); I haven't looked at the source, but this is an educated guess: You cannot do that. inet_ntoa(3) presumably uses the same buffer to store each result; if you want to keep multiple results, you need to copy at least one into your own buffer. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property of matter. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 19:42:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d3.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12688 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11954; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:39:54 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808211939.TAA11954@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: rotel@indigo.ie cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Generating backtrace from kernel panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:18:58 GMT." <199808211519.QAA01819@indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:39:53 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A 2.2.7-RELEASE machine recently paniced on me, I had dumpon/savecore > enabled but hadn't built the kernel with debugging symbols, so I rm'd > *.o in compile, added -g to COPTFLAGS and remade the kernel, but I > still can't get a backtrace: If you still have the old kernel, it would be more useful just to use that and work out in which function it actually was when it died. It looks like your regenerated kernel might be a little off. (It could also be that the stack is toasted, in which case all bets are off.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 19:59:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:59:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from redfish.go2net.com (redfish.go2net.com [207.178.55.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14518 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@go2net.com) Received: from marcs by redfish.go2net.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0zA3s2-0000Ja-00; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:57:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:57:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@redfish To: Phil Gilley cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stupidity or compiler bug? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Phil Gilley wrote: > Am I doing something really stupid here or is this a compiler bug? > The output of this program under 2.2.7-RELEASE is "1.2.3.4 1.2.3.4" > which isn't what I was expecting. "1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8" is what I was > hoping for. [...] > > iph.ip_src.s_addr = ntohl(0x01020304); > iph.ip_dst.s_addr = ntohl(0x05060708); > > printf("%s %s\n", inet_ntoa(iph.ip_src), inet_ntoa(iph.ip_dst)); inet_ntoa uses static memory, so you can't call it multiple times without doing something with the result in between calls. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Aug 21 21:32:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23299 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02292; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35DE49B8.80DB8979@dal.net> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:31:52 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Terry Lambert , rotel@indigo.ie, Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C and static initialization with unions References: <199808211727.RAA11031@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Attacking Terry over this . . . Au contraire, I was (and have in the past) supporting his point. My apologies for any confusion. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there. - Yiddish Proverb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 02:14:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13288 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.shellnet.co.uk (mailhost.shellnet.co.uk [194.129.209.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13283 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steven@shellnet.co.uk) Received: by mailhost.shellnet.co.uk with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3-Server (v2.10) for at Sat, 22 Aug 98 10:14:07 +0100 From: steven@shellnet.co.uk (Steven Fletcher) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: long username limitations Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:14:25 GMT Organization: Shellnet Message-ID: <35e18a09.46313605@mailhost.shellnet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA13284 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings to all.... Some time ago I posted a question to this list about changing the maximum length of a login name under FreeBSD 2.2.5. I was advised to edit /usr/include/utmp.h and look for UT_NAMESIZE... which I changed to 30, and I also changed MAXLOGNAME in /usr/include/sys/params.h to be 35. The problem is, that the first make world I tried this on didn't work. On the second try, I changed something else, *blush*, but I can't remember what I changed as it was quite some time ago. Now I'm faced with accomplishing the same thing with another machine.... I've tried to reconstruct my events but have had no luck. I've run make world, recompiled the kernel and rebooted many times... to be faced with the same problem each time. Could anyone out there point me in the right direction, or perhaps suggest what I've left out/doing wrong? Thanks -Steven Fletcher (steven@shellnet.co.uk) Shellnet - http://www.shellnet.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 03:10:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from IAEhv.nl (iaehv.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14920 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:10:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjw@surf.IAE.nl) Received: from surf.IAE.nl (root@surf.IAEhv.nl [194.151.66.2]) by IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13798 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:09:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from wjw@localhost) by surf.IAE.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13812; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:09:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:09:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: Willem Jan Withagen Message-Id: <199808221009.MAA13812@surf.IAE.nl> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Generating unique timestamps (Was: Re: proposal to not change time_t) X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199808211810.LAA05293@pau-amma.whistle.com> References: Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven, the Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199808211810.LAA05293@pau-amma.whistle.com> you write: >>Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:35:51 -0500 >>From: Richard Wackerbarth > >>You are correct that time precision, by itself, will never solve the >>multi-processor race condition that you describe. > >>Rather than use the completion time of the operation, we should be using >>the starting time. This, coupled with the requirement, in "make" that >>the result always be "newer", by at least one tick, than each of its >>inputs will cause the results to be correct. > >I would expect that if you're concerned with timestamps generated by >multi-processing systems, that it might be worth considering using a CPU >number as the last few bits of the timestamp -- beyond the accuracy of >anything "real" -- as a tie-breaker. > >As I recall, this is the technique IBM used on the s/3x0 "store clock" >instruction.... Sorry go on Apollo's again, but.... Every object under Domain-OS had a ID which was based on: Node-id.timestamp The node-id was the ID burned into a prom on the motherboard. the timestamp was derived from a RTC with 4us resolution, and was guaranteed to be uniq. You could (almost) do the same using the MAC addresses from an ethernet card, tossing the first two bytes. Most likely you don't any collisions from that omission in you local network. --WjW -- Internet Access Eindhoven BV., voice: +31-40-2 393 393, data: +31-40-2 606 606 P.O. 928, 5600 AX Eindhoven, The Netherlands Full Internet connectivity for only fl 12.95 a month. Call now, and login as 'new'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 05:29:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25291 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 05:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25286 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 05:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA29536; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:44:48 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808221044.MAA29536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now that kernel support for BW quickcam has gone, what should i use to read from b&w qcam (or use it in vic) under 2.2.6 and above ? I looked on the web at the various qcam sites and while there is a lot of linux code around, the only working thing i could find for freebsd is something called qcread . The qcam package (0.9beta6) does not seem to work on my machine, and the cqcam code in the ports is only for color qcam. Do you have any pointers to _working FreeBSD code_ for the B/W qcam ? thanks luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 05:49:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 05:49:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.RatsNest.VaBeach.VA.US ([207.244.238.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26598 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 05:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from SimsS@IBM.Net) Received: from Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us (dhcp231.Ratsnest.VaBeach.VA.US [199.249.172.231]) by gw.RatsNest.VaBeach.VA.US (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06767 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:48:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from SimsS@IBM.Net) Reply-To: From: "Steve Sims" To: Subject: TeraTerm Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:48:27 -0400 Message-ID: <001e01bdcdcb$29bdc640$e7acf9c7@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK - 4 days on -questions with no response; time to kick this over to the big dogs on -hackers: -----Original Message----- Two questions: I'm running TeraTerm Pro with both the SSH and SSL extensions. Real nice pieces of work, but I've tripped on a couple of annoyances. Annoyance the First: If I've got a telnet session running and I hit ^C, the terminal window locks up. Tight. PS indicates that the shell is hunky-dory, but nothin's happening on the telnet window. Any ideas? Annoyance the Second: Still haven't been able to get an ssh window running. Not on any of the FreeBSD boxen I have access to. Using Van Dyke's SecureTerm I can get and ssh session no problem-o. I haven't dug in too far on this - but a first-look at the debug looks something like this: \\ Start sshd in debug mode: gw/root:~# sshd -d debug: sshd version 1.2.26 [i386-unknown-freebsd2.2.7] debug: Initializing random number generator; seed file /usr/local/etc/ssh_random _seed log: Server listening on port 22. log: Generating 768 bit RSA key. Generating p: ....++ (distance 34) Generating q: .........................++ (distance 500) Computing the keys... Key generation complete. log: RSA key generation complete. \\ Now start a ssh connection: debug: Server will not fork when running in debugging mode. log: Connection from x.y.z.231 port 663 debug: Client protocol version 1.5; client software version TTSSH-1.2 debug: Sent 768 bit public key and 1024 bit host key. debug: Encryption type: idea debug: Received session key; encryption turned on. debug: Installing crc compensation attack detector. debug: Attempting authentication for simss. log: Password authentication for simss accepted. debug: Allocating pty. debug: Forking shell. debug: Entering interactive session. debug: Setting controlling tty using TIOCSCTTY. and that's all she wrote. The TeraTerm window is blank, and nothing is going on!?! Anyone seen either of these? HELP? TIA! ...sjs... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 06:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01284 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-dc.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01278 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17531; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:30:12 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808220630.GAA17531@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:44:47 +0200." <199808221044.MAA29536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:30:10 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now that kernel support for BW quickcam has gone, what should i use to > read from b&w qcam (or use it in vic) under 2.2.6 and above ? You're invited to port any of the existing code fragments to ppbus, or encourage any of the several individuals that have promised working code. Taking an existing application and modifying it to use ppi(4) would be trivial. The fact that nobody has done this would seem to indicate that the level of interest is remarkably low. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 06:44:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02486 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA02481 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA29591; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:59:02 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199808221159.NAA29591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:59:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808220630.GAA17531@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Aug 22, 98 06:29:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Taking an existing application and modifying it to use ppi(4) would be > trivial. The fact that nobody has done this would seem to indicate > that the level of interest is remarkably low. No surprise -- there is no 2.2.x port of the ppbus stuff (although it seems a trivial thing... it seems to compile fine here although i have no hardware to test it), not to mention any white paper or sample application -- at least i am not aware of any. Do you have pointers ? (and speaking of interest -- for the quickcam probably it is not worth the effort, but for scanners etc it would be a very nice thing to do given that a lot of scanners on the market now seem to use the parallel port). luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 06:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-dc.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03589 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17645; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:50:09 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199808220650.GAA17645@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:59:02 +0200." <199808221159.NAA29591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:50:08 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Taking an existing application and modifying it to use ppi(4) would be > > trivial. The fact that nobody has done this would seem to indicate > > that the level of interest is remarkably low. > > No surprise -- there is no 2.2.x port of the ppbus stuff (although > it seems a trivial thing... it seems to compile fine here although > i have no hardware to test it), not to mention any white paper or > sample application -- at least i am not aware of any. For 2.2, use /dev/io and raw port operations. Ppbus can be trivially backported to 2.2.x, but won't be committed (too radical a change). > (and speaking of interest -- for the quickcam probably it is not worth > the effort, but for scanners etc it would be a very nice thing to do > given that a lot of scanners on the market now seem to use the parallel > port). Yes, and this is what ppi lives for. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 07:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07987 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19739; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:49:07 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00620; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:04:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:04:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808212304.SAA00620@detlev.UUCP> To: igor@ns.online.samara.ru CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (igor@ns.online.samara.ru) Subject: Re: read timeout From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i read from tty: > fd = open(/dev/cuaa0, O_RDWR) > n = read(fd, &c, 1) > may I set timeout in which read wait data ? > if no data read must return 0 RTFM: select(2) Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 07:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08017 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19758; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:49:14 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00602; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:58:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:58:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808212258.RAA00602@detlev.UUCP> To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808210523.WAA08503@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> (message from Don Lewis on Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:23:43 -0700) Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808210523.WAA08503@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > } So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new > } function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use > } this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added > } it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in > } POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy > } right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. > I'd worry about causing name space pollution. You might break someone > else's code who has their own function called frealloc ... Isn't that what weak symbols in libc are for? Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 07:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08040 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08033 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19749; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:49:11 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00600; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:56:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:56:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808212256.RAA00600@detlev.UUCP> To: imp@village.org CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808210310.VAA26683@harmony.village.org> (message from Warner Losh on Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:10:46 -0600) Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808202326.SAA07936@detlev.UUCP> <199808201619.KAA20970@harmony.village.org> <199808210310.VAA26683@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Not to mention that on a large number of programs, memory shortage is >> fatal so the block will be free'd soon anyway. > Our libc should not force this memory shortage policy on all programs, > even if most of them will exit soon in the short on memory case. The message was that OpenBSD went through their entire source tree. libc is small compared to the number of executables that use realloc. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 07:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08010 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07993 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19743; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:49:09 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00616; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:01:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:01:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808212301.SAA00616@detlev.UUCP> To: nick.hibma@jrc.it CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Nick Hibma on Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:14:35 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Not to mention that on a large number of programs, memory shortage is >> fatal so the block will be free'd soon anyway. > Like a web server deciding to return a 'short on resources' error? > Kernel that is supposed to run for years? Vi trying to extend this one > megabyte line for yet another character and failing and saying 'BEEP: > cannot load file? > I don't think so. > Nick Woah, woah, I said on a large number of programs! I realize your point, just reread the discussion. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 08:10:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10178 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10173 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:10:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20493; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:11:34 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04791; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:09:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:09:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808221509.KAA04791@detlev.UUCP> To: jb@cimlogic.com.au CC: rabtter@aye.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199808220003.KAA16116@cimlogic.com.au> (message from John Birrell on Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:03:55 +1000 (EST)) Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199808220003.KAA16116@cimlogic.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that >> binaries from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is >> this possible? > Since you have all the sources to the kernel, you have control over > what executable formats the kernel will recognize. Why not try your > own binary format that differs in a way known only by you? You could > create a tool that converts an aout or elf executable into your > proprietary format. Note that if the crackers get wise to this, then they could analyze the new format. Same goes for jmb's idea of scrambling syscalls, although since rtld is failing rather than exec, it's likely to be harder to discover the problem (since exec will, unless modified, report a useful error message; rtld won't since it can't access write()). It may also be useful to, for each filesystem FOO, mount FOO either read-only or noexec. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 08:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10369 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10351 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20558; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:12:51 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04797; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:11:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808221511.KAA04797@detlev.UUCP> To: bright@www.hotjobs.com CC: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, rabtter@aye.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Alfred Perlstein on Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:37:09 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 08:22:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com ([208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11801 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:22:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-114.camalott.com [208.229.74.114]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20863; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:22:49 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04879; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:21:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:21:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808221521.KAA04879@detlev.UUCP> To: bright@www.hotjobs.com CC: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, rabtter@aye.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Alfred Perlstein on Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:37:09 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry about the null msg; slip of the fingers. >> One simple way could be to just change the "magic number" on the binaries, >> maybe, and disable all linux compat, etc? > hrm, how's about doing that, but instead of giving an error, you shutdown > the system and flush all logs. sounds bad, but might help you catch them > in the act. Hmm... I would tend to prefer something more along the lines of something like: sendpage -l 0 -p rabtter Attempt to use bad magic on `hostname -s` while [ ! -e /etc/shutup ] ; do cp alarm.au /dev/audio ; done rm /etc/shutup That way, you don't get an LOS, you can do any analysis you need to while the perpetrators are still on-line, you (hopefully) have them logged in for longer (while they try to figure out the problem), etc, etc. With a fair bit of work, that can also be implemented in the kernel (although I'd use a kernel variable that could be set from ddb instead of -e /etc/shutup). However, having the kernel launch such a process from some random file and make it look like a sendmail sending mail or something may be easier, particularly since you're in a bit of a rush. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 11:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23865 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 28603 invoked by uid 1032); 22 Aug 1998 18:00:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19980822130004.B27652@enteract.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:00:04 -0500 From: dannyman To: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? Mail-Followup-To: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199808221044.MAA29536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199808221044.MAA29536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 12:44:47PM +0200 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 12:44:47PM +0200, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Do you have any pointers to _working FreeBSD code_ for the B/W qcam ? qcread works for my b&w QuickCam. :) The code works, the compile is a bit tricky, because it compiles some gnu getopt libraries and then can't find them, but moving those is easy enough. -dannyman -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 11:03:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24155 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA20151; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020149; Sat Aug 22 11:02:27 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA18964; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:02:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199808221802.LAA18964@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-Reply-To: <199808220009.CAA05667@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Aug 22, 98 02:09:03 am" To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rabtter@aye.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mikael Karpberg writes: > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? > > One simple way could be to just change the "magic number" on the binaries, > maybe, and disable all linux compat, etc? And if you do this, set all executables to have mode --x--x--x so they can't determine what the new magic number is. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 13:44:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04954 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04000; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:45:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:45:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What options for BW quickcam on 2.2.7 ? In-Reply-To: <199808221044.MAA29536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Now that kernel support for BW quickcam has gone, what should i use to > read from b&w qcam (or use it in vic) under 2.2.6 and above ? > > I looked on the web at the various qcam sites and while there is a lot > of linux code around, the only working thing i could find for freebsd > is something called qcread . > > The qcam package (0.9beta6) does not seem to work on my machine, > and the cqcam code in the ports is only for color qcam. > > Do you have any pointers to _working FreeBSD code_ for the B/W qcam ? > I wrote qcread, and it works with both color and b&w quickcams on freebsd. The latest version is 0.3, and it's at http://www.illtel.com/pub/qcread/README.html . If there is any problem with it, please contact me. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 15:16:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11660 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-26.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.26]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA18799; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:15:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16809; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:40:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808220240.VAA16809@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "B. Richardson" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. In-reply-to: Message from "B. Richardson" of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:12:40 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:40:30 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "B. Richardson" writes: > > > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. While you are at it and breaking binary compatibility for security reasons, make sure you remove stuff a webserver doesn't need such as /usr/include, compilers, manpages, etc. Maybe PicoBSD would be the place to start? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 19:12:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04245 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04230 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09702; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:11:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd009664; Sat Aug 22 19:11:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA18917; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:11:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808230211.TAA18917@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C and static initialization with unions To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:11:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Studded@dal.net, tlambert@primenet.com, rotel@indigo.ie, mike@smith.net.au, Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808211727.RAA11031@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Aug 21, 98 05:27:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I could (were I not bound by NDA, etc.) name 3 projects off the top of > > my head that are loathe to extend their development to FreeBSD because > > of the difficulty in using modern development tools (like egcs, and a > > couple others) and lack of thread support. When one of them is asked why > > they aren't planning a FreeBSD implementation their standard answer is, > > "It is too difficult to produce a binary that performs even to our > > minimum standards, and therefore it isn't cost effective for us." > > As a compiler, egcs is no better than our thread support. > > Attacking Terry over this, when his employer is one of the major > sponsors of thread-related development on FreeBSD, seems a little > misdirected. I think his statement supports my thesis, that modern tools are not a luxury which FreeBSD can choose to support at some date in the future, but a necessity. So I don't feel attacked. 8-). But even if I was attacked, I wouldn't feel attacked, since I don't personalize these things (ie: I refuse to "own" someone else's problem); it's actually marvelously liberating to be able to participate in an uncontrolled forum without having to worry about someone else being able to give you an ulcer... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 19:14:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04388 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04383 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19235; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019219; Sat Aug 22 19:13:22 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA18985; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:13:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808230213.TAA18985@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:13:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808212258.RAA00602@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Aug 21, 98 05:58:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'd worry about causing name space pollution. You might break someone > > else's code who has their own function called frealloc ... > > Isn't that what weak symbols in libc are for? They don't work as expected; there are bugs, both in the standard ld, and in ld.so, that prevent weak symbols from working as expected; this is the reason that the __error stuff happened at all... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 19:18:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04908 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:18:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04903 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12575; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:17:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21859; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11783; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:17:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199808230217.TAA11783@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:17:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: Joel Ray Holveck "Re: Realloc fix for review" (Aug 21, 5:58pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: joelh@gnu.org, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Aug 21, 5:58pm, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: } Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review } > } So rather than hack some really complicated a and na's, I write a new } > } function, added it to libc and then modified all of src/lib to use } > } this new function. I called it frealloc (freeing realloc). I added } > } it to the man page, etc. I know that this isn't in ANSI C nor in } > } POSIX, but after seeing how hard it was to get people to use strncpy } > } right, I thought it would be good to add this to libc. } > I'd worry about causing name space pollution. You might break someone } > else's code who has their own function called frealloc ... } } Isn't that what weak symbols in libc are for? There's also the question of where you put the function prototype. If you put it in a standard header file, you'll break any third party code that redefines this function. Putting it in a non-standard header file is ok, but you'll have to include this header in any code that uses this function. You could also put the prototype in a standard header file if you use the proper #ifdef trickery to protect it from been seen by code that doesn't want to see any non-ANSI/non-POSIX symbols. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 19:26:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05771 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05738 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hohmuth@olymp.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id EAA00820; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:25:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hohmuth@olymp.sax.de) Received: (from hohmuth@localhost) by olymp.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA03872; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:10:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hohmuth) From: Michael Hohmuth To: Torbjorn Granlund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netboot References: <199808172228.AAA22127@sophie.matematik.su.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.105) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 23 Aug 1998 04:10:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: Torbjorn Granlund's message of Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:28:52 +0200 Message-ID: <877m00cusb.fsf@olymp.sax.de> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Torbjorn Granlund writes: > Anybody out there that has made netboot work with fxp or de 100baseTX cards? There's a package called Etherboot ("archie etherboot") which is based on Netboot and which contains a GPL'd Etherexpress 100 driver. However, I think this driver can only be built under Linux; it would require some hacking to make it compilable natively under FreeBSD. On a related note, my group (at TU Dresden) also maintains a version of the GRUB bootloader (see ) into which we have integrated (or rather, hacked) the Etherboot drivers. Again, the networking support currently can only be built under Linux. Michael -- hohmuth@innocent.com, hohmuth@inf.tu-dresden.de http://home.pages.de/~hohmuth/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 19:38:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07252 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02474; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd002460; Sat Aug 22 19:37:58 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA20049; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:37:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199808230237.TAA20049@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Coping with a system breach... To: rabtter@aye.net (B. Richardson) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:37:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "B. Richardson" at Aug 21, 98 07:12:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all > services except http. > > The hackers have expressed intent to break into our machines at > any opportunity (they seem to be infuriated that we intervened and > was able to keep a couple of services up on our SGI). > > The hackers relentlessly attacked our machine every time we tried to > bring our SGI online for a 48 hour stretch, and I believe that are > going to try to break into our new machines with the same fervor. > > What I want to do, if possible is build a uniq system such that binaries > from other systems will not run on it and vice versa. Is this possible? I am uncertain whether or not you are the ISP; you said "making my ISP's life miserable", and then you said "they've already hacked our SGI". The first thing to do is to log, to a different machine, all TCP and UDP packet source addresses for all inbound traffic. The other machine should have exactly one network port open: the one that you write the logs to. Alternately, use a serial console and a teletype (or serial printer wired in parallel with a dumb terminal). In any case, log the accesses by the hackers, and add their addresses to your firewall list. They can't be on every machine on the net. Then use the IP addresses to reverse lookup who owns the netblock they are coming from, and report them. This will have better teeth if you are willing to earnestly pursue wire fraud and criminal trespass charges against the perpetrators. If the crackers (a "hacker" is a programmer name for a programmer and/or someone who makes furniture with an axe) persist in the face of monitoring, then shut down everything you can. The easiest way to do this for TCP is to dump inbound packets for things the ISP lets customers do, but for which there are no servers inside the secure zone if those same services are exported to the net at large. For example, allow outbound IRC from your customers, but do not allow inbound packets to the IRC port that do not have the response bit set. You may want to consider not allowing inbound FTP connections; that is, your customers will have to use "ftp -p" to engage "passive mode", where the FTP connection is always initiated by the client, rather than the client telling the server via the control channel, and the server connecting back. Make sure you have disabled source routing, to mitigate the possibility of IP spoofing. In general, restrict inbound traffic to specific choke-points. If the crackers are your customers, when you catch them, then sue them for breach of contract (assuming you have an acceptable use policy in place; if not, the best you can do is civil charges and throw them off). Basically, you will need to be very careful. It would be helpful to have a full equipment list, and the reasons given for targetting the particular ISP in the first place (persistent SPAM relay, known easy target, whatever), but you would have a hard time justifying posting this to a public forum while you are under attack, and a hard time getting a useful response on all of the equipment from a single individual. If these guys got root, expect to have to reinstall the machine while it is off the network to remove any modified versions of "login" or anything else on the system. Otherwise, expect your system to cooperate in letting them back in. Expect that they have compromised other machines. If you have any NT or Windows 95/98 machines, look for "Back Orifice" (search for "windll.dll" on all drives to identify compromised machinees), etc.. Contact CERT and utilizing their site and other resources to protect you machines. Contact the FBI and Secret Service if the attack is from another state and/or country. In the worst case, expect to have to hire a security consultant for a pretty penny. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 22:09:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29294 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:09:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA29289 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:09:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zASOo-00056p-00; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:09:06 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA18455; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808230510.XAA18455@harmony.village.org> To: Peter Dufault Subject: Re: Realloc fix for review Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:19:56 EDT." <199808211019.GAA15118@hda.hda.com> References: <199808211019.GAA15118@hda.hda.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:10:10 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808211019.GAA15118@hda.hda.com> Peter Dufault writes: : As long as you are changing the code, how about adding a non-posix : header so that there is a well defined place to hang the implementation : on another system? : : In my opinion, believing that a non-standard interface is needed : should dictate a non-standard header. It adds an amount of damping : in adding non-posix things. Hmmmm. Any ideas what to call it? It just seems to be long well in stdlib.h, with the appropriate ifdefs... I do see your point. After all, we have err.h rather than glomming all that good into stdio.h. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Aug 22 22:15:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29883 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA29872 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zASUN-000572-00; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:14:51 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA18500; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:15:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808230515.XAA18500@harmony.village.org> To: David Kelly Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility. Cc: "B. Richardson" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:40:30 CDT." <199808220240.VAA16809@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <199808220240.VAA16809@nospam.hiwaay.net> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:15:56 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199808220240.VAA16809@nospam.hiwaay.net> David Kelly writes: : > I have a problem with some hackers that are obsessed with making my : > ISP's life miserable (they've already hacked our SGI). I've slapped : > together a FreeBSD box to throw their webpages on it, turned off all : > services except http. : : While you are at it and breaking binary compatibility for security : reasons, make sure you remove stuff a webserver doesn't need such as : /usr/include, compilers, manpages, etc. Maybe PicoBSD would be the : place to start? You are better off NOT breaking binary compatibility to get what you want. You would be better served by porting StackGuard to FreeBSD, which would give you excellent protection against most stack overflows. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message