From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 08:41:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12823 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:41:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12815 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA17567; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:45:45 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199812061645.LAA17567@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Test request, SMC 1211TX EtherEZ PCI card To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:45:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812060646.WAA02587@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Dec 5, 98 10:46:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Mike Smith had to walk into mine and say: > > Hi guys, got a quick favor to ask. SMC has this (relatively) new > > NIC called the EtherEZ 1211-TX. This is a PCI 10/100 adapter. From > > what I can tell, I think this board uses a RealTek 8139 or compatible > > chipset, which means that in theory it should work with the rl driver. > > Er, aren't all the 'TX' boards based on the SMC9432TX part? > > If so, you want the 'tx' driver. I thought that initially myself, but that appears not to be the case. The EPIC boards are called the EtherPower II series, whereas this new board is called an EtherEZ. It's meant to be a low cost card, and if it does in fact use a RealTek chip, then that's exactly what it is. :) I downloaded the drivers from ftp.smc.com for this card and ran strings -a on a few of them: they explicitly mention the rtl8139, so it looks like it is indeed a RealTek chip. I also looked at the SCO OpenSewer 5 driver kit: it includes an 'r8e.h' header file which contains definitions that match the information I have for the RealTek and mentions the 8129 and 8139. This seems to show pretty conclusively that it is a RealTek chip. However this appears to be SMC's own build of the driver; in many cases I think the distributors just use whatever drivers are provided by RealTek and make up their own diskettes, but SMC seems to have compiled their own driver versions. This being the case, it's possible they may have used their own PCI vendor and device ID in the EEPROM and customized the driver to match, just to it look like their board is different from others and get you to use their particular drivers. So even though it's a RealTek chip, the rl driver still might not detect it as such. Then again I may just be overly paranoid. Either way, I can't really tell without a board, and I don't really want to go to the trouble of getting one when somebody else can just do 5 minutes of testing and tell me what I need to know. -Bill P.S. It's too bad that SMC is using the RealTek chip. There are plenty of other cheap fast ethernet controllers thet could have used that would have provided much better performance. -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 08:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14738 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA14732 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA17608; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:03:42 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199812061703.MAA17608@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Test request, SMC 1211TX EtherEZ PCI card To: andree@bumlan.campus.luth.se (Andree Jacobson) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:03:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andree Jacobson" at Dec 6, 98 05:48:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Andree Jacobson had to walk into mine and say: > I have one of these cards in my NT :( machine. The problem is that I don'= > t > have an extra disk in this machine to se if it would work. From what I > know the 3.0-Release did not find the card automatically, but I'll give i= > t > another shot though. The rl driver wasn't in 3.0-RELEASE, so don't bother. > I'll just download the latest boot floppies and se if it detects it :) Go to current.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD and get the latest 3.0-SNAP boot floppy (from Nov. 23rd, I think). That floppy should have the driver in it. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 09:51:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19281 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arg1.demon.co.uk (arg1.demon.co.uk [194.222.34.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19273 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:51:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Received: from localhost (arg@localhost) by arg1.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA08225; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:50:15 GMT (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:49:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Gordon X-Sender: arg@server.arg.sj.co.uk To: Bill Paul cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Test request, SMC 1211TX EtherEZ PCI card In-Reply-To: <199812061645.LAA17567@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bill Paul wrote: > > I downloaded the drivers from ftp.smc.com for this card and ran > strings -a on a few of them: they explicitly mention the rtl8139, > so it looks like it is indeed a RealTek chip. I also looked at the > SCO OpenSewer 5 driver kit: it includes an 'r8e.h' header file > which contains definitions that match the information I have for > the RealTek and mentions the 8129 and 8139. This seems to show > pretty conclusively that it is a RealTek chip. However this > appears to be SMC's own build of the driver; in many cases I think the > distributors just use whatever drivers are provided by RealTek > and make up their own diskettes, but SMC seems to have compiled > their own driver versions. This being the case, it's possible they > may have used their own PCI vendor and device ID in the EEPROM > and customized the driver to match, just to it look like their > board is different from others and get you to use their particular > drivers. So even though it's a RealTek chip, the rl driver still > might not detect it as such. Can't help you with the 100Mbit versions, but I can tell you that the 10Mbit PCI version of the EtherEZ is indeed using the RealTek 8029, and the PCI vendor ID etc. is still RealTek's. On all the ones I have handled, SMC have gone to the trouble of over-printing the chips with black paint and an SMC logo to obscure the RealTek partnumber, but have then shot themselves in the foot by printing a photo on the outside of the packaging which shows a card with the unobscured RealTek chip clearly visible!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 13:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04370 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:05:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (port95.prairietech.net [208.141.230.95] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04355 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA52527; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:03:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:03:45 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dvd recordable X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13930.61661.285025.251821@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone got a DVD-RAM or other recordable DVD drive working with current? If so, what kind, and in what sense of 'working'? Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 13:21:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05944 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:21:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bumlan.campus.luth.se (bumlan.campus.luth.se [130.240.196.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05938 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andree@bumlan.campus.luth.se) Received: from localhost (laj@localhost) by bumlan.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA19291; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:21:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andree@bumlan.campus.luth.se) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:21:08 +0100 (CET) From: Andree Jacobson X-Sender: laj@bumlan.campus.luth.se To: Bill Paul cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Test request, SMC 1211TX EtherEZ PCI card In-Reply-To: <199812061703.MAA17608@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bill Paul wrote: > Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Andree Jacobson > had to walk into mine and say: > Go to current.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD and get the latest 3.0-SNAP > boot floppy (from Nov. 23rd, I think). That floppy should have the > driver in it. Yep, it worked! dmesg was: rl0: rev 0x10 int a irq 9 on pci0.11.0 rl0: Ethernet address: rl0: unknown device ID: 1211 of course I could not try to configure ftp options but it might work. /Andree -oOOo----------------------------------------------------------------------oOOo- | andree@bumlan.campus.luth.se Kårhusvägen 6:322 Phone :+46-(0)920 - 23 29 49 | | http://bumlan.campus.luth.se S-977 54 Luleå Mobile:+46-(0)705 - 35 91 89 | | SWEDEN ICQ : 219 28 38 | \------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 6 16:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25651 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:41:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA25641 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA18136; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:46:46 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199812070046.TAA18136@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Test request, SMC 1211TX EtherEZ PCI card To: andree@bumlan.campus.luth.se (Andree Jacobson) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:46:45 -0500 (EST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andree Jacobson" at Dec 6, 98 10:21:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Andree Jacobson had to walk into mine and say: > On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bill Paul wrote: > > > Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Andree Jacobso= > n=20 > > had to walk into mine and say: > > > Go to current.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD and get the latest 3.0-SNAP > > boot floppy (from Nov. 23rd, I think). That floppy should have the > > driver in it. > > Yep, it worked! Well, it almost worked. > dmesg was: > > rl0: rev 0x10 int a irq 9 on pci0.11.= > 0 > rl0: Ethernet address: > rl0: unknown device ID: 1211 This means I forgot to do something in rl_attach() to properly handle the alternate vendor/device ID for the Accton MPX chips. I think these are just rebadged 8139s. I just now committed a fix to -current to deal with this. > of course I could not try to configure ftp options but it might work. It won't: the 'unknown device ID' error is a fatal error: the device was not attached. However, next time a -current snapshot comes out, it should work (or you could make a custom kernel). Thanks very much for testing this for me though: it's just the sort of information I was looking for. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 13:28:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18263 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:28:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postoffice.prismnet.com (postoffice.prismnet.com [205.166.246.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18255 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Chris_Ficklin@serengeti.com) Received: from mclaren ([209.198.148.163]) by postoffice.prismnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14219 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:28:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981207152906.009d9a90@prismnet.com> X-Sender: seren@prismnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:29:07 -0600 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: Chris Ficklin Subject: PLX9060 based adapter under 2.2.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm trying to write a driver for a hardware adapter under 2.2.2. When I do the pci_map_mem() for the IO port memory, I get a message something like x000-x07f is incompatible with its bridge's mem range 0x2000000-0xffffffff I've gotten this same adapter to work under NT. The board is using a PLX 9060 based PCI chip. Thanks, Chris Ficklin Serengeti Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 13:56:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21499 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.tesys.com (gw1.tesys.com [207.5.58.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21494 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billy@tesys.com) Received: from bb2.tesys.com ([207.5.58.7]) by gw1.tesys.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07718 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:57:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981207135639.0083e9b0@gw1.tesys.com> X-Sender: billy@gw1.tesys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:56:39 -0800 To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: Billy Bath x102 Subject: Re: Quad CPU's under FreeBSD 3.0. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Support Could you please tell me, which MB's are supported. I need to build a system who could use Quad CPU's.. The word is out there,that it runs fine. I want a pointer to select right hardware.. thanks.. cheers,,bb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 16:29:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08464 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:29:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08454 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01221; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812080027.QAA01221@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Billy Bath x102 cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quad CPU's under FreeBSD 3.0. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:56:39 PST." <3.0.5.32.19981207135639.0083e9b0@gw1.tesys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:27:51 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hello, Support > Could you please tell me, which MB's are supported. I need to build a > system who could use Quad CPU's.. > The word is out there,that it runs fine. I want a pointer to select right > hardware.. Most of them will work just fine, although you may need to be fairly up-to-date with -current. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 16:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08952 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.tesys.com (gw1.tesys.com [207.5.58.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08941 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billy@tesys.com) Received: from bb2.tesys.com ([207.5.58.7]) by gw1.tesys.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08604; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:33:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981207163244.00840100@gw1.tesys.com> X-Sender: billy@gw1.tesys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:32:44 -0800 To: Mike Smith From: Billy Bath x102 Subject: Re: Quad CPU's under FreeBSD 3.0. Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812080027.QAA01221@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Mike Goodmorning.. I realised it's morning in Australia, infact I have a brother who goes to school, at Brisbane. Is there something where I can find a list of the once which are registered to work, so I buy the same. I guess, the only once I can buy now are Xeon's, right ? thanks. cheers,,bb At 04:27 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Hello, Support >> Could you please tell me, which MB's are supported. I need to build a >> system who could use Quad CPU's.. >> The word is out there,that it runs fine. I want a pointer to select right >> hardware.. > >Most of them will work just fine, although you may need to be fairly >up-to-date with -current. > >-- >\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith >\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au >\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 16:41:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09981 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09972 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:41:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01334; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812080039.QAA01334@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Billy Bath x102 cc: Mike Smith , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quad CPU's under FreeBSD 3.0. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:32:44 PST." <3.0.5.32.19981207163244.00840100@gw1.tesys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:39:02 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is there something where I can find a list of the once which are registered > to work, so I buy the same. I guess, the only once I can buy now are > Xeon's, right ? No, we don't have a list of qualified boards at this point in time. We're known to be running on the Intel B0 Bear and the IBM Netfinity 7000; most other i450NX-based boards should be fine. You will need some patches that haven't (yet) been committed; they should be in -current in a few days for full support for more than the first PCI bus. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 17:26:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16261 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:26:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp6.portal.net.au [202.12.71.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16244 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:26:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00880; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:38:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812070038.QAA00880@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: alk@pobox.com cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dvd recordable In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Dec 1998 15:03:45 CST." <13930.61661.285025.251821@avalon.east> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:38:18 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Has anyone got a DVD-RAM or other recordable DVD drive working with > current? If so, what kind, and in what sense of 'working'? Thanks! We were approached by a DVD-RAM vendor at Comdex who wasn't able to tell us very much conclusively, but they were keen to get sample units into the hands of our developers, so I'll be pursuing this when I get back. At the moment, I don't expect that any of the units on the market will work as-is, but YMMV. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 7 23:09:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21164 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21152 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:09:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00772; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812080707.XAA00772@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chris Ficklin cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PLX9060 based adapter under 2.2.2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:29:07 CST." <3.0.32.19981207152906.009d9a90@prismnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 23:07:04 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm trying to write a driver for a hardware adapter under 2.2.2. When I do > the pci_map_mem() for the IO port memory, I get a message something like > x000-x07f is incompatible with its bridge's mem range 0x2000000-0xffffffff > I've gotten this same adapter to work under NT. The board is using a PLX > 9060 based PCI chip. pci_map_mem maps a memory range. You probably want pci_map_port. b -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 8 05:37:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25532 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:37:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (polaris.we.lc.ehu.es [158.227.6.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25527 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jose@we.lc.ehu.es) Received: from we.lc.ehu.es by polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01564; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:37:26 +0100 Message-ID: <366D2B96.8EA96877@we.lc.ehu.es> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 14:37:26 +0100 From: "José Mª Alcaide" Organization: Universidad del País Vasco - Dept. Electricidad y Electrónica X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I cannot "dd" to 640MB MO disk References: <36694A28.4395A75E@we.lc.ehu.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm sending this message as a future reference for other people who might have the same problem. Despite what the od(4) man page says, working with 2048-byte sector MO cartridges is not possible under FreeBSD 2.2.x. I have just switched to FreeBSD 3.0, and now I can use these cartridges without any problem, thanks to the CAM drivers. -- JMA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- José Mª Alcaide | mailto:jose@we.lc.ehu.es Universidad del País Vasco | http://www.we.lc.ehu.es/~jose Dpto. de Electricidad y Electrónica | Facultad de Ciencias - Campus de Lejona | Tel.: +34-946012479 48940 Lejona (Vizcaya) - SPAIN | Fax: +34-944858139 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Go ahead... make my day." - H. Callahan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 05:28:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15114 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15105 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24691 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:26:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:26:02 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mousen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've always disliked real mice, because the paper/notes/flotsam that encroaches on my pc doesn't want to give up the real estate. Because of that, I went to trackballs, but it's always annoyted me that trackballs seem to pick up dust bits, and then work with a very rough feel to them, unreliably jamming. Because of this, when I saw the little square plastic, I think they're called touchpads, on some Mac portables, I thought they were great. No moving parts to get gummed up! Only problem is, I don't do portables, I go for towers. Does anyone know of a touchpad mouse that's sold as an add-on (prefereably a serial interface) that I can buy, that will let me smash that darn balky trackball against the wall? If I have the name for the kind of mouse I'm referring to wrong, I'd appreciate being corrected, too. Thanks. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 07:31:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25137 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from med.osd.mil (dsserver.med.osd.mil [161.14.8.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25103 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:31:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rpotts@med.osd.mil) Received: from ae1970.med.osd.mil by med.osd.mil with SMTP (5.65/25-eef) id AA03973; Wed, 9 Dec 98 10:29:39 -0500 From: "Ross Potts, CON, EDS/D-SIDDOMS" Message-Id: <9812091029.ZM-153137@161.14.216.105> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:29:36 -0800 In-Reply-To: Chuck Robey "mousen" (Dec 9, 8:26am) References: X-Mailer: ZM-Win (3.2.1 11Sep94) To: Chuck Robey , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Logitech(I believe) used to sell one that clipped onto your keyboard. I've seen others as late as last spring, so you can probably still find them. Look in any major Electronics store. -- Potts, Ross A. Internet : Ross.Potts@med.osd.mil EDS-D/SIDDOMS Phone : (703) 824-7601 Skyline Two, Suite 1200 Beeper : (888) 687-2709 5113 Leesburg Pike, FAX : (703) 824-4155 Falls Church, VA 22041 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 10:23:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10560 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:23:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10555 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:23:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07682; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981209102328.D6523@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:23:28 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Chuck Robey , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:26:02AM -0500 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:26:02AM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > go for towers. Does anyone know of a touchpad mouse that's sold as an > add-on (prefereably a serial interface) that I can buy, that will let me > smash that darn balky trackball against the wall? I have two suggestions for you. 1. Forget the damn touchpads and get a Logitech TrackMan Marble FX. This is a finger-actuated optical 3+1 button trackball with a cool ergo shape for your right hand. Logitech has pictures of them on their web site. I can't recommend this mouse enough. It rox0rs. 2. Go find an Alps Glidepoint touchpad. A friend had one; they're cool. I've never owned one so I can't tell you what they're really like to use. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Computing is a terminal addiction. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 11:33:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17968 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadow.spel.com (elevator.cablenet-va.com [208.206.84.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17922 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mturpin@shadow.spel.com) Received: from localhost (mturpin@localhost) by shadow.spel.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00230; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:36:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:36:55 -0500 (EST) From: Mark turpin Reply-To: Mark turpin To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Because of this, when I saw the little square plastic, I think they're > called touchpads, on some Mac portables, I thought they were great. No > moving parts to get gummed up! Only problem is, I don't do portables, I > go for towers. Does anyone know of a touchpad mouse that's sold as an > add-on (prefereably a serial interface) that I can buy, that will let me > smash that darn balky trackball against the wall? > > If I have the name for the kind of mouse I'm referring to wrong, I'd > appreciate being corrected, too. > > > > I've got an Alps GlidePoint. I can't stand it. I'm a mouse person(I've also got a 13 foot long desk). I suggest going to a store where you can play with one in a notebook before you buy it. I just plugged it in my FreeBSD box and it was detected (as a Generic PS/2 mouse). Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turpin | Consulting - Training - Network Installation Systems Engineer | Main Street Technology Centre | http://www.MainStreetTech.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 12:31:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23703 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23695 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26458; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:30:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:30:13 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever seen one under $100? As for the glidepoints, I haven't used one. Cirque makes some neat ones, but the best features are lost when you go away from windows. It lets you make a strip on the right side act as a scrollbar control for the active window. I found all kinds of stuff at cdw and insight by searching under "input devices" and then narrowing it down to weed out keyboards and joysticks... Good luck, Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- "...there's no idea that's so good you can't ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > I've always disliked real mice, because the paper/notes/flotsam that > encroaches on my pc doesn't want to give up the real estate. Because of > that, I went to trackballs, but it's always annoyted me that trackballs > seem to pick up dust bits, and then work with a very rough feel to them, > unreliably jamming. > > Because of this, when I saw the little square plastic, I think they're > called touchpads, on some Mac portables, I thought they were great. No > moving parts to get gummed up! Only problem is, I don't do portables, I > go for towers. Does anyone know of a touchpad mouse that's sold as an > add-on (prefereably a serial interface) that I can buy, that will let me > smash that darn balky trackball against the wall? > > If I have the name for the kind of mouse I'm referring to wrong, I'd > appreciate being corrected, too. > > Thanks. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 12:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26310 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26303 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00545; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:55:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:55:56 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: spork cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, spork wrote: > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > seen one under $100? I know more now. Logitech makes one, found it in a catalog, unbelieveably cheap ($49) but it's got a Windows label. I *hate* buying things with that label, because I suspect it means Microsoft has found a way to make it work *only* with windows. > > As for the glidepoints, I haven't used one. Cirque makes some neat ones, > but the best features are lost when you go away from windows. It lets you > make a strip on the right side act as a scrollbar control for the active > window. > > I found all kinds of stuff at cdw and insight by searching under "input > devices" and then narrowing it down to weed out keyboards and joysticks... The Logitech I meantioned is in their latest printed catalog. > > Good luck, > > Charles > > --- > Charles Sprickman > spork@super-g.com > --- > "...there's no idea that's so good you can't > ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." > > On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > I've always disliked real mice, because the paper/notes/flotsam that > > encroaches on my pc doesn't want to give up the real estate. Because of > > that, I went to trackballs, but it's always annoyted me that trackballs > > seem to pick up dust bits, and then work with a very rough feel to them, > > unreliably jamming. > > > > Because of this, when I saw the little square plastic, I think they're > > called touchpads, on some Mac portables, I thought they were great. No > > moving parts to get gummed up! Only problem is, I don't do portables, I > > go for towers. Does anyone know of a touchpad mouse that's sold as an > > add-on (prefereably a serial interface) that I can buy, that will let me > > smash that darn balky trackball against the wall? > > > > If I have the name for the kind of mouse I'm referring to wrong, I'd > > appreciate being corrected, too. > > > > Thanks. > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) > > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 14:07:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04163 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:07:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04157 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00627; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199812092205.RAA00627@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: from spork at "Dec 9, 98 03:30:13 pm" To: spork@super-g.com (spork) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:05:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: chuckr@mat.net, FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > seen one under $100? I know IBM makes them (in black of course). I don't know the cost though. I'm going to get one - I'm a big fan of the IBM widget, and if you've used the one on Toshibas don't dismiss IBM's - the IBM one is incomparably better. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 14:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05227 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynix.ecn.purdue.edu (cynix.ecn.purdue.edu [128.46.108.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05220 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from splite@purdue.edu) Received: (from splite@localhost) by cynix.ecn.purdue.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02549; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:17:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981209171751.A1972@cynix.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:17:51 -0500 From: splite To: Peter Dufault Cc: chuckr@mat.net, FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen References: <199812092205.RAA00627@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <199812092205.RAA00627@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 05:05:12PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 05:05:12PM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > > seen one under $100? > > I know IBM makes them (in black of course). I don't know the cost > though. I'm going to get one - I'm a big fan of the IBM widget, > and if you've used the one on Toshibas don't dismiss IBM's - the > IBM one is incomparably better. How many mouse buttons does it have? I can't image trying to push two buttons with one thumb to simulate a middle-click. I suppose one could use both thumbs... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 14:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06643 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06621 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:33:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00911; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:32:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:32:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: splite cc: Peter Dufault , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <19981209171751.A1972@cynix.ecn.purdue.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, splite wrote: > On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 05:05:12PM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > > > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > > > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > > > seen one under $100? > > > > I know IBM makes them (in black of course). I don't know the cost > > though. I'm going to get one - I'm a big fan of the IBM widget, > > and if you've used the one on Toshibas don't dismiss IBM's - the > > IBM one is incomparably better. > > How many mouse buttons does it have? I can't image trying to push two > buttons with one thumb to simulate a middle-click. I suppose one could > use both thumbs... According to the web page, it's really expensive, comes in black or white, but only has 2 mouse buttons. I do too much cut'n'paste to be really happy about that. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 14:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07742 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postoffice.prismnet.com (postoffice.prismnet.com [205.166.246.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07733 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Chris_Ficklin@serengeti.com) Received: from mclaren ([209.198.148.163]) by postoffice.prismnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03285 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:48:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981209164910.00a3c9e0@prismnet.com> X-Sender: seren@prismnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:49:11 -0600 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: Chris Ficklin Subject: accessing PCI memory under 2.2.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm having difficulty accessing the memory on a PCI adapter I'm writing a driver for. I map the memory with pci_map_mem and am using the pointer returned to me in the va parameter. When I try to to write the memory, what I read back is not the same. I'm using copyin/copyout to write/read the memory from buffers passed from user space. Also, if I try to access the memory on the board directly (ie with a printf) the machine locks up. Does anyone have any ideas what may be wrong. Thanks, Chris Ficklin Serengeti Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 14:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07876 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07861 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00750; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:48:01 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199812092248.RAA00750@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <19981209171751.A1972@cynix.ecn.purdue.edu> from splite at "Dec 9, 98 05:17:51 pm" To: splite@purdue.edu (splite) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:48:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 05:05:12PM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > > > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > > > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > > > seen one under $100? > > > > I know IBM makes them (in black of course). I don't know the cost > > though. I'm going to get one - I'm a big fan of the IBM widget, > > and if you've used the one on Toshibas don't dismiss IBM's - the > > IBM one is incomparably better. > > How many mouse buttons does it have? I can't image trying to push two > buttons with one thumb to simulate a middle-click. I suppose one could > use both thumbs... I use both thumbs. I'm used to the Thinkpad. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 16:39:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22286 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (ppp-sfx201--094.sirius.net [205.134.235.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22270 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (localhost.parag.codegen.com [127.0.0.1]) by pinhead.parag.codegen.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00745; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Message-Id: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: spork cc: Chuck Robey , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: Message from spork of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 15:30:13 EST." X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm X-URL: http://www.codegen.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:38:12 -0800 From: Parag Patel Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today I just purchase a brand new Logitech Marble Mouse for $40. They make three series of Marble-based trackballs, and despite the name, this is the cheapest. Plugged it in to the PS/2 port, and it works beautifully. The Marble design is neat in that it tracks the motion of the ball entirely optically. There are no bearings to gum up. The ball itself is red with a special dot-pattern to allow the sensor to see the ball's motion. The Marble+ design positions the marble to be used by the thumb, which I don't care for. The Marble FX design positions the ball to be used between the thumb and finger, and has 4 buttons on it. The one I got is the cheapest, has 2 buttons, and a mid-sized marble right in the center for use primarily by fingers. It's closest to the Stingray and Kensington translucent-blue designs and the only one that lefties can use. All are PS/2 mice and come with clever little PS/2<->RS-232 dongles. Nice. I've tried trackpads but prefer the kinetic feedback from a physically moving device. Your mileage may vary. -- Parag To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 17:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25528 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25521 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:06:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01165; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:04:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:04:56 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Parag Patel cc: spork , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Parag Patel wrote: > > Today I just purchase a brand new Logitech Marble Mouse for $40. They > make three series of Marble-based trackballs, and despite the name, > this is the cheapest. Plugged it in to the PS/2 port, and it works > beautifully. > > The Marble design is neat in that it tracks the motion of the ball > entirely optically. There are no bearings to gum up. The ball itself > is red with a special dot-pattern to allow the sensor to see the ball's > motion. > > The Marble+ design positions the marble to be used by the thumb, which > I don't care for. The Marble FX design positions the ball to be used > between the thumb and finger, and has 4 buttons on it. The one I got > is the cheapest, has 2 buttons, and a mid-sized marble right in the > center for use primarily by fingers. It's closest to the Stingray and > Kensington translucent-blue designs and the only one that lefties can > use. > > All are PS/2 mice and come with clever little PS/2<->RS-232 dongles. > Nice. Thanks for all the replies, guys, I've learned a lot. I think I'll risk one of those integrated keyboard/touchpad things, like maybe the Logitech ones. I don't like anything that wants to move on my desk, it threatens too much instability to the mountains of paper I've carefully trashed myself with. I could end up buried! I've never used a PS/2 mouse port ... always did it serially. Is that a problem of any kind for me? I don't know anything about the PS/2 mouse port, does it get a dedicated uart? What's the irq/port? Rate? Or should I invest in the PS/2<->RS-232 converter you mentioned above? > I've tried trackpads but prefer the kinetic feedback from a physically > moving device. Your mileage may vary. Everyone's got their favorite; I won't insist you use mine if you don't make me use yours, ok? Religious topic --> avoidance mode on! Just give me that facts. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 17:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26509 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from geo.geocast.net (geo.geocast.net [128.177.240.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26502 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from castor@geocast.net) Received: from localhost (castor@localhost) by geo.geocast.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10794; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:10:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:10:38 -0800 (PST) From: Castor Fu To: Peter Dufault cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812092248.RAA00750@hda.hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 05:05:12PM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > What would really be nice is if someone made a keyboard with the built in > > > > "stick" that comes with the Thinkpads. It's really nice to not have to > > > > move your hands off the keyboard to position the mouse... Anyone ever > > > > seen one under $100? > > > > > > I know IBM makes them (in black of course). I don't know the cost > > > though. I'm going to get one - I'm a big fan of the IBM widget, > > > and if you've used the one on Toshibas don't dismiss IBM's - the > > > IBM one is incomparably better. Hmm, IBM's web site says "Average Reseller Price" of $129 for their space saver keyboard , and Pricewatch lists two of the five resellers with an average price of $211. I guess that means the other 3 have an average selling price of $74 which sounds pretty good ;-) http://www6.pc.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/public_US/dealers.d2w/report?cntry=USA&base=84G2524&baseqty=1 Given the name "Space saver" it probably gets rid of all those extra semi-useless keypads. -castor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 17:11:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26525 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:11:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (ppp-sfx201--094.sirius.net [205.134.235.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26519 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:10:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (localhost.parag.codegen.com [127.0.0.1]) by pinhead.parag.codegen.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00820; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Message-Id: <199812100045.QAA00820@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chuck Robey cc: spork , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: Message from Chuck Robey of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 15:55:56 EST." X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm X-URL: http://www.codegen.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:45:11 -0800 From: Parag Patel Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Also, I've seen a Keytronic cordless keyboard with a built-in trackpad. It should be readily available. Central Computer carries it in Santa Clara. I've been toying with getting one but I really do prefer trackballs. -- Parag To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 17:40:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01247 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-db.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01237 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:40:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01687; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:19:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812100119.RAA01687@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chris Ficklin cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: accessing PCI memory under 2.2.2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:49:11 CST." <3.0.32.19981209164910.00a3c9e0@prismnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:19:29 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm having difficulty accessing the memory on a PCI adapter I'm writing a > driver for. I map the memory with pci_map_mem and am using the pointer > returned to me in the va parameter. When I try to to write the memory, > what I read back is not the same. Compare your usage with that in other drivers that do memory-mapped I/O. It sounds like you're not necessarily getting it quite right. > I'm using copyin/copyout to write/read > the memory from buffers passed from user space. That's bad; you should use uiomove so that you can be called from kernel space as well. > Also, if I try to access > the memory on the board directly (ie with a printf) the machine locks up. > Does anyone have any ideas what may be wrong. With no actual numbers, hardware documentation, probe output, etc., no, but it's something that you're going to have a better chance of resolving if you look at other code that does the same stuff and compare it with yours. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 17:57:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03784 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03779 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26726; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:57:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:57:06 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Parag Patel cc: spork , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Parag Patel wrote: > > Today I just purchase a brand new Logitech Marble Mouse for $40. They > make three series of Marble-based trackballs, and despite the name, > this is the cheapest. Plugged it in to the PS/2 port, and it works > beautifully. Yup. I have a Marble FX. The box for this thing had "Windows" all over it and I was afraid it wouldn't work with FreeBSD, having 4 buttons and all. Turns out it was detected AND XFree86 sees all the buttons. :-) psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: model MouseMan+, device ID 0 > The Marble design is neat in that it tracks the motion of the ball > entirely optically. There are no bearings to gum up. The ball itself > is red with a special dot-pattern to allow the sensor to see the ball's > motion. Well, there ARE little ball bearings to gum up (the ball can't float in mid-air.. maybe someday), but they don't affect tracking so even when they're dirty all you get is a ball that doesn't move as easily. The tracking stays smooth. > The Marble+ design positions the marble to be used by the thumb, which > I don't care for. The Marble FX design positions the ball to be used > between the thumb and finger, and has 4 buttons on it. The one I got > is the cheapest, has 2 buttons, and a mid-sized marble right in the > center for use primarily by fingers. It's closest to the Stingray and > Kensington translucent-blue designs and the only one that lefties can > use. The Trackman Marble FX is the best trackball I have ever laid my eyes/hands on. Only works well for righties though. Logitech might make a lefty version, but I haven't seen it in stores. > All are PS/2 mice and come with clever little PS/2<->RS-232 dongles. > Nice. > > I've tried trackpads but prefer the kinetic feedback from a physically > moving device. Your mileage may vary. > > > -- Parag -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) ( http://www.freebsd.org ) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 9 23:01:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11206 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:01:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11201 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13129; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981209230101.H12269@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:01:01 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Chris Dillon Cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen References: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Dillon on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 07:57:06PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 07:57:06PM -0600, Chris Dillon wrote: > Yup. I have a Marble FX. The box for this thing had "Windows" all over > it and I was afraid it wouldn't work with FreeBSD, having 4 buttons and > all. Turns out it was detected AND XFree86 sees all the buttons. :-) Does your fourth button do anything funky, or just double-left-click like mine? > The Trackman Marble FX is the best trackball I have ever laid my > eyes/hands on. Only works well for righties though. Logitech might > make a lefty version, but I haven't seen it in stores. It is also the best trackball I have ever seen or used. I also use a Kensington Turbo Mouse every day, and the Logitech beats that one hands down. It's cheaper, too, at about $75. These mice rule. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter The best way to accelerate Windows mailto:gsutter@pobox.com is at 9.8 m/s^2. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 00:32:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21605 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA21582 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:32:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 66727 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Dec 1998 08:31:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19981210093148.C64429@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:31:48 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Dillon on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 07:57:06PM -0600 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 07:57:06PM -0600, Chris Dillon wrote: > On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Parag Patel wrote: > > Today I just purchase a brand new Logitech Marble Mouse for $40. They > > make three series of Marble-based trackballs, and despite the name, > > this is the cheapest. Plugged it in to the PS/2 port, and it works > > beautifully. Several years ago I purchased one of the first imported (I'm located in Germany) 'mousetrak' trackballs (http://www.mousetrak.com ). After some real stressfull weeks doing chip design (point and click, point and click, point and type, point and click, ...) on Sun workstations, my arm ached from wrist to elbow at every move. Since then I've never touched a mouse again. The itac products are more than rock solid. My first 'mousetrak professional' is still in action and shows its age in no way. It was and is expensive, though. (I purchased the first for somewhat like $240, ugghh.) Currently I own the historic 'mousetrak professional' (originally a PC-serial version; now patched to hang off my Sparcstation LX), one 'personal mousetrak' for my win-machine and one 'evolution mousetrak' on my main development -current machine. The 'personal mousetrak' seems more or less identical to the 'professional' from functional point of view; the bearings, the ball, and the microswitches are equivalent. The case is definitely less solid, but its defnitely cheaper, too. :) (around $90, retail prices should be lower, ...) > Yup. I have a Marble FX. The box for this thing had "Windows" all over > it and I was afraid it wouldn't work with FreeBSD, having 4 buttons and > all. Turns out it was detected AND XFree86 sees all the buttons. :-) seems, that I should have a 'look and feel' on it sometime. > psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard > psm0: model MouseMan+, device ID 0 the 'evolution': psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 The 'evolution' has six programmable keys; three left and three right from the ball. The cases' design is symmetric; for lefties it is sufficient to re-program the keys. 'key'-programming is done by directly using the keys ... no driver or other software involved. I use a key-setup (if I'm remembering right, it's the default setup) with - key-2: 'left-click' by thumb - key-3: 'double-left-click' by thumb - key-6: 'right-click' by the little finger - key-5: 'middle-click' by ring finger - key-4: 'click-and-drag' by middle finger - key-1: by thumb, switches between linear and ballistic accelerated tracking > > The Marble+ design positions the marble to be used by the thumb, which using the thumb for marble-moving is ergonomically wrong. > > I don't care for. The Marble FX design positions the ball to be used > > between the thumb and finger, and has 4 buttons on it. The one I got ^^^^^^^^^ slightly better > > is the cheapest, has 2 buttons, and a mid-sized marble right in the > > center for use primarily by fingers. It's closest to the Stingray and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 'the right way' > > I've tried trackpads but prefer the kinetic feedback from a physically .... I really hate trackpads; no feedback, much to small, etc. etc. -Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 09:18:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16939 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16918 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16151; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981210091748.B15933@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:17:48 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Andreas Braukmann Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen References: <199812100038.QAA00745@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> <19981210093148.C64429@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981210093148.C64429@paert.tse-online.de>; from Andreas Braukmann on Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 09:31:48AM +0100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 09:31:48AM +0100, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > > The itac products are more than rock solid. My first 'mousetrak professional' > is still in action and shows its age in no way. > > > > I don't care for. The Marble FX design positions the ball to be used > > > between the thumb and finger, and has 4 buttons on it. The one I got > ^^^^^^^^^ slightly better Actually, the primary means of pointing is with the fingers. I feel comfortable with either the first two or the first three fingers of my hand on the ball. However, when really precise motion is needed, you can move your thumb slightly and have the ability to grip the trackball between thumb and fingers. It's really easy to move the cursor a single pixel this way. http://www.logitech.com/Mice+Trackballs/TrackManMarbleFX.html Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Madness takes its toll. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Please have exact change. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 13:19:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18568 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:19:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18554 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:19:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA45936; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:18:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Parag Patel cc: spork , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812100045.QAA00820@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Parag Patel wrote: > > Also, I've seen a Keytronic cordless keyboard with a built-in trackpad. > It should be readily available. Central Computer carries it > in Santa Clara. I've been toying with > getting one but I really do prefer trackballs. Just thought I'd summarize, for the benefit of all. Seems like all the touchpad input devices are 2 button, and since I like using 3 button, I guess that's out for me. I checked the IBM button, and it's 2 button also (too bad, I liked it even better than touchpad). Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball is your ONLY bet. > > > -- Parag > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 16:00:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10871 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slarti.muc.de (slarti.muc.de [193.174.4.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA10821 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@jhs.muc.de) Received: (qmail 12365 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1998 23:57:38 -0000 Received: from jhs.muc.de (193.174.4.84) by slarti.muc.de with SMTP; 10 Dec 1998 23:57:38 -0000 Received: from wall.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhs.muc.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14801; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:24:53 GMT (envelope-from jhs@wall.jhs.no_domain) Message-Id: <199812092324.XAA14801@jhs.muc.de> To: Mike Smith cc: alk@pobox.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@jhs.muc.de, gj@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DVD Country Locking in drive hardware ? From: "Julian Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian Stacey" X-Net: jhs@muc.de jhs@freebsd.org www.jhs.muc.de www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:38:18 PST." <199812070038.QAA00880@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:24:52 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Mike Smith replied to someone else's: > > > > Has anyone got a DVD-RAM or other recordable DVD drive working with > > current? If so, what kind, and in what sense of 'working'? Thanks! A friend ordered a DVD drive to avoid the Jan 1st changeover to DVDs that are deliberately crippled in the DVD drive to enable "Country Locking" (apparently some scheme by Hollywood to force for instance Germans to wait (& pay for) for the German dubbed version of programmes, rather than watch the original American version. I believe this is currently done in the MPEG card, but friend speculates if you have a fast enough CPU to use instead, can avoid the lock ... ? ) I reckon there's lot's of us who'd want to access films & data in the original, regardless where we bought the media, so if this rumour is really true, maybe we (in Europe ?) should be rushing out to buy DVD drives now ? (The friend says some DVD suppliers are already holding back sales to match new stock presumably pre-crippled with the national locks. Comments ? I'd love to be told this is not true :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 16:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18590 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pegasus.com ([209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA18580 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:51:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id OAA06401; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:51:06 -1000 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:51:06 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199812110051.OAA06401@pegasus.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sane sound cards? Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Aloha, I've recently become interested in the mp3 audio stuff and the capability of playing CD quality music with my system. My question is; Are there any sound cards available and supported by BSD that support this function well? All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be sufficient. I've recently been using a SoundBlaster AWE 64 Gold, with a 200Mhz MMX Pentium running 3.0-RELEASE. It works fine while lightly loaded. But will start dropping audio data as the load climbs a bit. A second or two of on-board buffering should fix the problem completely, and make it possible to play mp3s on slower systems. (Dedicating a whole machine to this function for want of a few K-bytes of buffer seems pretty silly.) Does anyone make a sound card with a decent size buffer on it for it's audio input? Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 17:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24617 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:56:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24612 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:56:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA26827; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:56:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199812110156.UAA26827@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chuck Robey cc: Parag Patel , spork , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: mousen References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:18:04 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:56:24 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Just thought I'd summarize, for the benefit of all. Seems like all the > touchpad input devices are 2 button, and since I like using 3 button, I > guess that's out for me. I checked the IBM button, and it's 2 button > also (too bad, I liked it even better than touchpad). > > Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball > is your ONLY bet. Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still available any longer, though. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 18:31:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28630 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28624 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA61079; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:29:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: Parag Patel , spork , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812110156.UAA26827@whizzo.transsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > Just thought I'd summarize, for the benefit of all. Seems like all the > > touchpad input devices are 2 button, and since I like using 3 button, I > > guess that's out for me. I checked the IBM button, and it's 2 button > > also (too bad, I liked it even better than touchpad). > > > > Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball > > is your ONLY bet. > > Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 > button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the > "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still > available any longer, though. Wonderful, I'd given up! I found a webpage, I'll see if the really sell it (or the web page is just stale) tomorrow. > > louie > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 18:52:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00275 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:52:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pegasus.com ([209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00270 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id QAA06686; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:52:05 -1000 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:52:05 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199812110252.QAA06686@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: "Louis A. Mamakos" "Re: mousen" (Dec 10, 8:56pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org } > Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball } > is your ONLY bet. } } Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 } button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the } "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still } available any longer, though. Isn't the `tap gesture' a Windows driver thing? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 19:07:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02388 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02379 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:07:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27300; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:06:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199812110306.WAA27300@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: mousen References: <199812110252.QAA06686@pegasus.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:52:05 -1000." <199812110252.QAA06686@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:06:56 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > } > Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball > } > is your ONLY bet. > } > } Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 > } button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the > } "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still > } available any longer, though. > > Isn't the `tap gesture' a Windows driver thing? Nope, the FreeBSD moused supports it. Typically, it gets mapped to button 1, the left mouse button, but you can do something different with it if you want. Some of the trackpads will internally map it to the left button, rather than passing it back as a unique event in the mouse message. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 19:12:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03027 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03021 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA61150; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:11:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:11:03 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: Richard Foulk , FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812110306.WAA27300@whizzo.transsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > } > Looks like, if you want 3 button and don't like a mouse, the trackball > > } > is your ONLY bet. > > } > > } Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 > > } button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the > > } "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still > > } available any longer, though. > > > > Isn't the `tap gesture' a Windows driver thing? > > Nope, the FreeBSD moused supports it. Typically, it gets mapped to > button 1, the left mouse button, but you can do something different with > it if you want. Some of the trackpads will internally map it to the > left button, rather than passing it back as a unique event in the > mouse message. Yeah, and XFree86 explicitly supports the double-click too. > > louie > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 10 20:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08422 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08411 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04077; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:01:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:01:31 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Gregory Sutter cc: FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <19981209230101.H12269@orcrist.mediacity.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 07:57:06PM -0600, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > Yup. I have a Marble FX. The box for this thing had "Windows" all over > > it and I was afraid it wouldn't work with FreeBSD, having 4 buttons and > > all. Turns out it was detected AND XFree86 sees all the buttons. :-) > > Does your fourth button do anything funky, or just double-left-click > like mine? Not much at all, actually. I imagine this has everything to do with the window manager you're using. xev reports the fourth button press/release event just like any of the other buttons. > > The Trackman Marble FX is the best trackball I have ever laid my > > eyes/hands on. Only works well for righties though. Logitech might > > make a lefty version, but I haven't seen it in stores. > > It is also the best trackball I have ever seen or used. I also use > a Kensington Turbo Mouse every day, and the Logitech beats that one > hands down. It's cheaper, too, at about $75. I paid $100 for mine a few months ago. I guess the price has come down somewhat. It made me cringe when I saw the pricetag, but I couldn't pass it up. :-) > These mice rule. > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter The best way to accelerate Windows > mailto:gsutter@pobox.com is at 9.8 m/s^2. > http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ > PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) ( http://www.freebsd.org ) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 01:46:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11961 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:46:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11949 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06012; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199812110944.EAA06012@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Dec 10, 98 09:29:38 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:44:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 > > button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the > > "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still > > available any longer, though. > > Wonderful, I'd given up! I found a webpage, I'll see if the really sell > it (or the web page is just stale) tomorrow. You haven't covered 3D force feedback devices yet. The force feedback of the IBM widget is what makes it work so well (push hard - moves fast, push light - crawls). I'm not sure what you'll do with the Z axis. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 02:58:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18433 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:58:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18428 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02411 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:58:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:58:15 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199812111058.LAA02411@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hardware Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Foulk wrote in list.freebsd-hardware: you wrote (11 Dec 1998 01:52:16 +0100): > I've recently become interested in the mp3 audio stuff and the capability > of playing CD quality music with my system. > [...] > I've recently been using a SoundBlaster AWE 64 Gold, with a 200Mhz > MMX Pentium running 3.0-RELEASE. It works fine while lightly loaded. > But will start dropping audio data as the load climbs a bit. A second > or two of on-board buffering should fix the problem completely, and make > it possible to play mp3s on slower systems. I'm using a Pentium-75 with an AWE64-Value for playing MPEG audio files, it works great. You should use an mp3 player which supports buffering of decoded audio data. For example, mpg123 (http://mpg.123.org/) has an option to specify the buffer size. I usually use 2 Mb (that's about 6 seconds of CD quality audio). As far as I know, there are no soundcards with large audio buffers (the on-board RAM of soundcards is usually used for sample banks and similar things). It wouldn't make much sense anyway, because the soundcard reads its data via DMA from main memory, so the computer's main memory can be used as buffer in a much more flexible way by the audio driver and application software (like mpg123). Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 04:51:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02622 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:51:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02617 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:51:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA64627; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:49:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:49:50 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Peter Dufault cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mousen In-Reply-To: <199812110944.EAA06012@hda.hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > Not quite; I've got a couple of Alps Glidepoint keyboards which have 3 > > > button trackpad pointing devices. Plus, these things also support the > > > "tap" gesture as a 4th virtual button. I don't know if they're still > > > available any longer, though. > > > > Wonderful, I'd given up! I found a webpage, I'll see if the really sell > > it (or the web page is just stale) tomorrow. > > You haven't covered 3D force feedback devices yet. The force feedback > of the IBM widget is what makes it work so well (push hard - moves fast, > push light - crawls). I'm not sure what you'll do with the Z axis. I couldn't find a vendor, except for IBM. I wasn't discouraged by their price, but I *require* at least 3 buttons, and none of theirs have that. Outside of that, I liked the times I've tried it ... but am a little wary of wear and tear, seeing as they sell those button replacements, there's got to be a reason why. Still, if I saw a 3 button version, at any price, it'd have to be a real string consideration. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 05:23:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05174 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:23:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wave.campus.luth.se (wave.campus.luth.se [130.240.193.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05165 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:23:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@wave.campus.luth.se) Received: (from pb@localhost) by wave.campus.luth.se (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA28325; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:23:57 GMT From: PB Message-Id: <199812111423.OAA28325@wave.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: sane sound cards? To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:23:57 +0000 () Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812110051.OAA06401@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Dec 10, 98 02:51:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Foulk wrote: > >Aloha, > >I've recently become interested in the mp3 audio stuff and the capability >of playing CD quality music with my system. > >My question is; Are there any sound cards available and supported by >BSD that support this function well? > Look out for cards that claim they are "Soundblaster Compitable" many are, but NOT at 44.1 kHz, 16 bit, Stereo.. "Soundblaster Compitable" Marketdroid invented term ? :-) >All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data >buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. >My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be >sufficient. Buffering is done with primary memory. Card only needs about 4K buffer. >I've recently been using a SoundBlaster AWE 64 Gold, with a 200Mhz >MMX Pentium running 3.0-RELEASE. It works fine while lightly loaded. >But will start dropping audio data as the load climbs a bit. A second >or two of on-board buffering should fix the problem completely, and make >it possible to play mp3s on slower systems. (Dedicating a whole machine >to this function for want of a few K-bytes of buffer seems pretty silly.) > I think your problem is IDE, I have seen this problem several times. As soon an IDE unit is used in the system. mp3 playing becomes a lot easier disturbed task. Advise .. use SCSI ONLY. Ofcourse it's a question of money too.. ;) If you really must use IDE, throw them to another computer which runs as a NFS server. /Peter >Does anyone make a sound card with a decent size buffer on it for it's >audio input? > > >Richard > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 09:56:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04869 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pegasus.com ([209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA04858 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id HAA09539; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:55:26 -1000 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:55:26 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199812111755.HAA09539@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: PB "Re: sane sound cards?" (Dec 11, 2:23pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: PB Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org } >All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data } >buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. } >My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be } >sufficient. } } Buffering is done with primary memory. Card only needs about 4K buffer. } What do you mean by primary memory? If it ain't on the card it's not what I want. If it's not on the sound card a slow device elsewhere on the system will be able to starve the sound card. } >I've recently been using a SoundBlaster AWE 64 Gold, with a 200Mhz } >MMX Pentium running 3.0-RELEASE. It works fine while lightly loaded. } >But will start dropping audio data as the load climbs a bit. A second } >or two of on-board buffering should fix the problem completely, and make } >it possible to play mp3s on slower systems. (Dedicating a whole machine } >to this function for want of a few K-bytes of buffer seems pretty silly.) } > } } I think your problem is IDE, I have seen this problem several times. As soon } an IDE unit is used in the system. mp3 playing becomes a lot easier } disturbed task. } } Advise .. use SCSI ONLY. Ofcourse it's a question of money too.. ;) } } If you really must use IDE, throw them to another computer which runs as a } NFS server. Who said anything about IDE? Yikes! I don't have any of that junk on any of my systems. My problem is insufficient buffering on the sound card. Poor card design. I'm almost certain that this is a problem endemic to most all current systems. Given a bit of load just about any configuration will fail to deliver uninterrupted audio. (At least for 200Mhz CPUs and below.) A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. So are there any good sound cards out there? Thanks Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 10:29:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08287 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08282 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:29:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA05766; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:29:12 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812111829.MAA05766@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: sane sound cards? In-Reply-To: <199812111755.HAA09539@pegasus.com> from Richard Foulk at "Dec 11, 1998 7:55:26 am" To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:29:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: pb@wave.campus.luth.se, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > } >All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data > } >buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. > } >My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be > } >sufficient. > } > } Buffering is done with primary memory. Card only needs about 4K buffer. > } > > What do you mean by primary memory? If it ain't on the card it's not > what I want. If it's not on the sound card a slow device elsewhere on > the system will be able to starve the sound card. Most, if not all sound cards use DMA to pull sound out of the system ram and stream it in. You control the size of the buffer in software that you want to keep loaded off of the disk, and in an interrupt handler (that can't really get too lagged) you give it the next dma command and start loading the next block. If you're getting skipping/missing, it's because your system can't keep up or there are driver problems. I have an original Soundblaster 1.0 (giant ISA card) that has a 64 byte buffer, but can DMA. I'm able to play mp3's on it with ease. Look for IRQ conflicts, or try a different audio driver if possible. > A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. Not really. You're DMA'ing data from the system to the card, so that will never get interrupted with load. I don't know of any sound systems that have a bigger buffer, but I'm sure someone will correct me. :) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 17:45:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27639 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pegasus.com ([209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27632 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id PAA10540; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:45:20 -1000 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:45:20 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199812120145.PAA10540@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Kevin Day "Re: sane sound cards?" (Dec 11, 12:29pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org } > } >All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data } > } >buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. } > } >My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be } > } >sufficient. } > } } > } Buffering is done with primary memory. Card only needs about 4K buffer. } > } } > } > What do you mean by primary memory? If it ain't on the card it's not } > what I want. If it's not on the sound card a slow device elsewhere on } > the system will be able to starve the sound card. } } Most, if not all sound cards use DMA to pull sound out of the system ram and } stream it in. You control the size of the buffer in software that you want } to keep loaded off of the disk, and in an interrupt handler (that can't } really get too lagged) you give it the next dma command and start loading } the next block. DMA helps make transfers faster and more efficient. But the time between DMA transfers is completely indeterminate under most Unixes, (Windows too.) Sound production is a realtime process. External (to the OS) buffering is the best way to try to connect a realtime I/O process to non-realtime operating systems. } If you're getting skipping/missing, it's because your system can't keep up } or there are driver problems. } } I have an original Soundblaster 1.0 (giant ISA card) that has a 64 byte } buffer, but can DMA. I'm able to play mp3's on it with ease. } } Look for IRQ conflicts, or try a different audio driver if possible. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My system can play them just fine too. But not if I do a fair amount of other work at the same time. I'm convinced that a lack of sufficient buffering on the sound card is the only thing standing in my way. (I may end up building a system to dedicate to playing mp3s. But that really shouldn't be necessary.) } > A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. } } Not really. You're DMA'ing data from the system to the card, so that will } never get interrupted with load. I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data at a time. You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have any place to put it. So a five minute song is going to take roughly 100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 18:21:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01501 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:21:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-10.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01480 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA99134 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:21:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812120221.UAA99134@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: sane sound cards? In-reply-to: Message from richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) of "Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:45:20 -1000." <199812120145.PAA10540@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:21:22 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Foulk writes: > DMA helps make transfers faster and more efficient. But the time > between DMA transfers is completely indeterminate under most Unixes, > (Windows too.) Its a PC hardware problem. I doubt software has anything to do with it. > Sound production is a realtime process. External (to the OS) buffering > is the best way to try to connect a realtime I/O process to non-realtime > operating systems. [...] > I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is > limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data > at a time. One of us doesn't understand. I haven't participated so far. > You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have > any place to put it. I wouldn't want to. If the card had someplace to put it I would rather the CPU copy that much using an interuptable instruction sequence. > So a five minute song is going to take roughly > 100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another > process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out > of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. A busy CPU has little to do with DMA. The CPU sees wait states during DMA. The only time the CPU comes into play is on IRQ when the DMA controller indicates a DMA buffer is exhausted. *Then* one has an opportunity to drop bits going to the sound card. A solution (that might already be in use, assuming this situation is a real problem) would be for a driver to allocate two physical DMA buffer regions and ping-pong between. Fill one, start the sound running from it, while filling the second. When the first empties move the DMA pointers to the 2nd. Then refill the first. Etc. With only one DMA buffer when it empties one might have to fill it from HD. But here we're over my head. Isn't there a half-full flag or some such on the DMA? Something else to consider: DMA cycles on the ISA bus force your system to slow to 8MHz. Maybe the CPU can run at full speed thru an external DMA cycle if the CPU is running from its cache. I've been using Luigi's sound code to put myself to sleep at night. Its pretty well written so its not that good as a sleep inducer. Haven't studied the DMA section as I've been concentrating on the Crystal Semiconductor probe and initialization. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 18:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01895 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01890 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA13709; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:24:55 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812120224.UAA13709@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: sane sound cards? In-Reply-To: <199812120145.PAA10540@pegasus.com> from Richard Foulk at "Dec 11, 1998 3:45:20 pm" To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:24:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > } If you're getting skipping/missing, it's because your system can't keep up > } or there are driver problems. > } > } I have an original Soundblaster 1.0 (giant ISA card) that has a 64 byte > } buffer, but can DMA. I'm able to play mp3's on it with ease. > } > } Look for IRQ conflicts, or try a different audio driver if possible. > > Perhaps I wasn't clear. My system can play them just fine too. But > not if I do a fair amount of other work at the same time. I'm convinced > that a lack of sufficient buffering on the sound card is the only thing > standing in my way. Maybe I wasn't either. :) I can play mp3's on my old soundblaster during a make world -j4, with no skipping... P/200 with 128MB of ram. > } > A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. > } > } Not really. You're DMA'ing data from the system to the card, so that will > } never get interrupted with load. > > I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is > limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data > at a time. > > You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have > any place to put it. So a five minute song is going to take roughly > 100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another > process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out > of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. At least in my design, you trigger an interrupt/timer/something to go off just before the dma finishes, and in that handler you start up another transfer. I do arcade game programming. In past projects, i've done similar things on funky processors as slow as 33Mhz, with no problem keeping things fed. I'd usually set a timer to expire just before my dma was finished, that triggered an interrupt, and my interrupt handler started the next dma. No matter what was happening, i never missed a dma. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 20:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12081 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pegasus.com ([209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA12076 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id SAA10884; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:20:21 -1000 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:20:21 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199812120420.SAA10884@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Kevin Day "Re: sane sound cards?" (Dec 11, 8:24pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org } > You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have } > any place to put it. So a five minute song is going to take roughly } > 100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another } > process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out } > of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. } } At least in my design, you trigger an interrupt/timer/something to go off } just before the dma finishes, and in that handler you start up another } transfer. Buffering algorithms are everywhere. Choose one, I'm not picky. } I do arcade game programming. In past projects, i've done similar things on } funky processors as slow as 33Mhz, with no problem keeping things fed. I'd } usually set a timer to expire just before my dma was finished, that } triggered an interrupt, and my interrupt handler started the next dma. No } matter what was happening, i never missed a dma. Arcade games are real-time systems. Apples and oranges. I"ve built I/O cards and written drivers and this is a classic case where a little more buffer will make things work more reliably. Sort of like the older serial ports that had only one or two characters of buffer. At higher speeds under Unix they would occasionally lose characters. So the chip makers eventually added more buffer. What's taking the sound card guys so long? Is it because most of them are used for much less than 44.1KHz stereo? Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 11 22:11:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19943 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:11:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19932 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:11:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05746; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:17:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199812120617.BAA05746@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:08:38 -0500 To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812120145.PAA10540@pegasus.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:45 PM 12/11/98 -1000, Richard Foulk wrote: >} > } >All of the cards I've checked into appear to fail because there is no data >} > } >buffer on the card. At least not large enough to handle 44.1kHz stereo. >} > } >My guess is that somewhere between 16K and 64K bytes of buffer should be >} > } >sufficient. >} > } >} > } Buffering is done with primary memory. Card only needs about 4K buffer. >} > } >} > >} > What do you mean by primary memory? If it ain't on the card it's not >} > what I want. If it's not on the sound card a slow device elsewhere on >} > the system will be able to starve the sound card. >} >} Most, if not all sound cards use DMA to pull sound out of the system ram and >} stream it in. You control the size of the buffer in software that you want >} to keep loaded off of the disk, and in an interrupt handler (that can't >} really get too lagged) you give it the next dma command and start loading >} the next block. > >DMA helps make transfers faster and more efficient. But the time >between DMA transfers is completely indeterminate under most Unixes, >(Windows too.) > >Sound production is a realtime process. External (to the OS) buffering >is the best way to try to connect a realtime I/O process to non-realtime >operating systems. > >} If you're getting skipping/missing, it's because your system can't keep up >} or there are driver problems. >} >} I have an original Soundblaster 1.0 (giant ISA card) that has a 64 byte >} buffer, but can DMA. I'm able to play mp3's on it with ease. >} >} Look for IRQ conflicts, or try a different audio driver if possible. > >Perhaps I wasn't clear. My system can play them just fine too. But >not if I do a fair amount of other work at the same time. I'm convinced >that a lack of sufficient buffering on the sound card is the only thing >standing in my way. > >(I may end up building a system to dedicate to playing mp3s. But that >really shouldn't be necessary.) > >} > A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. >} >} Not really. You're DMA'ing data from the system to the card, so that will >} never get interrupted with load. > >I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is >limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data >at a time. > >You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have >any place to put it. So a five minute song is going to take roughly >100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another >process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out >of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. DMA systems like this often have a low-water mark. When the buffer drains to the low water mark, an interrupt is sent to the processor telling it that it is time to set up another DMA transfer so the buffer doesn't drain completely. So it seems that you are saying that the buffer runs out before the CPU has a chance to set up another DMA operation. This either happens because interrupt activity is high, and when the sound interrupt comes in their is already an interrupt being handled, or you are doing a lot of syscalls that lock out the sound driver code with an SPL level that prevents the sound interrupt from being serviced quickly enough. If you could increase the buffer length on the sound card you would be able to handle these problems better. But you probably can't. Instead why don't you see if you can do one of 2 things to the code. 1) see if the interrupt low-water mark can be increased. This will increase the number of sound interrupts, but give you more time to respond before the buffer runs dry. 2) see if the priority of the sound interrupt can be raised. This may slow down the other tasks in the system but hopefully the sound driver will be able to respond quicker since it may preempt other interrupts or won't be locked out by lower level SPL changes. -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Dec 12 03:10:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11395 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:10:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11386 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:10:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10686 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:10:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:10:06 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199812121110.MAA10686@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sane sound cards? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hardware Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Foulk wrote in list.freebsd-hardware: > DMA helps make transfers faster and more efficient. But the time > between DMA transfers is completely indeterminate under most Unixes, > (Windows too.) The sound card driver uses two DMA buffers (each of them is 64 Kb, I think). When the soundcard has finished playing one of them, it begins playing the other one and notifies the driver (with an IRQ) that the first buffer has been played and now is available to be filled with new data. At CD quality (16 bit, 44.1 kHz, stereo), 64 Kb are roughly 0.4 seconds of audio playback. If your driver does not handle the IRQ and set up a new DMA transfer within 0.4 seconds, you have either a _serious_ hardware problem (IRQ conflict, broken DMA controller or something like that), or you software cannot keep up with delivering new audio data to the driver fast enough. In the first case (hardware problem), fix it. In the second case (software can't keep up), there are several possibilities. Assuming that you're decoding MPEG audio files ("mp3" or others), this takes a fair amount of CPU share. If your computer has to do other tasks that require significant amount of CPU power, the MPEG decoder might not get enough CPU time to deliver audio data to the soundcard driver in realtime. If those other tasks appear in peaks (e.g. starting large applications), a buffer within the MPEG decoder will help. For example, mpg123 has an option for this (-b) which causes it to fork a child process which handles the buffering (the child process will virtually always get enough CPU time from FreeBSD's scheduler because it doesn't need much CPU time for itself). If those other tasks are running for a long time (e.g. make world, raytracer etc.), you should renice those tasks or put them into an idle scheduling class (see "man idprio"). Or, alternatively, give the MPEG decoder a negative nice value or put it into a realtime scheduling class ("man rtprio"), although FreeBSD's scheduler is clever enough so that this should not be necessary. Bottom line: A buffer memory on the soundcard does NOT provide any significant advantage. Period. > Perhaps I wasn't clear. My system can play them just fine too. But > not if I do a fair amount of other work at the same time. I'm convinced > that a lack of sufficient buffering on the sound card is the only thing > standing in my way. ... or sufficient buffering in software. Try it. > I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is > limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data > at a time. That's incorrect. The DMA transfer can run in 64 Kb chunks, even if the soundcard does not use that much on-board memory for buffering. The DMA is used to feed the data directly from main memory into the soundcard's DAC. (Well, almost directly, there's usually a small FIFO in between, because the DAC clock and the DMA clock run asynchronously.) Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Dec 12 15:57:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12546 for freebsd-hardware-outgoing; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp-d9.dialup.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12541 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00626; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812122354.PAA00626@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sane sound cards? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:45:20 -1000." <199812120145.PAA10540@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:54:12 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > } > A larger on-card buffer would make the problem go away. > } > } Not really. You're DMA'ing data from the system to the card, so that will > } never get interrupted with load. > > I don't think you understand how DMA works. Since the transfer is > limited to the buffer on the card it can only transfer tiny bits of data > at a time. > > You can't DMA a megabyte buffer full of data to a card that doesn't have > any place to put it. You certainly don't have any idea how DMA works either it seems. 8) There's nothing fundamentally impossible with using DMA in that fashion; you put a FIFO on the card as the DMA destination, and pace the DMA operation to keep the FIFO full. The actual size of the DMA transfer is completely irrelevant. In practice, there are lots of restrictions imposed by the toylike DMA hardware in the PC that interfere. > So a five minute song is going to take roughly > 100,000 separate DMA transfers. That's 100,000 chances for another > process to keep the CPU busy long enough for the sound card to run out > of data. 64 bytes is only a few milliseconds of play time. Unacceptable. 64K of audio data is 16Ksamples (16bit stereo), or 372msec, about a third of a second. If the application has provided more data to the driver (a wise idea, when possible), there is no way that "another process" can "keep the CPU busy" (the driver will be invoked via interrupt from the soundcard, preempting any other process) and prevent handling of the DMA termination. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message