From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 00:21:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26656 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silk.net (music.silk.net [206.12.206.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26647 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:21:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjukema@silk.net) Received: from george.my.domain (kel043.silk.net [204.244.76.43]) by silk.net (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA14068; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:20:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980322001904.007a4e90@silk.net> X-Sender: gjukema@silk.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:19:04 -0800 To: Sue Blake From: Geoff Jukema Subject: Re: redundancy Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980322170146.61900@welearn.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Is anyone else interested in helping too? > >I think there's a few people already in the documentation project who are >looking for someone to read their stuff to make sure it makes sense right >now, but they haven't had many volunteers. > >They're starting a big effort to work on the Handbook and FAQ to make them >easier to use, and there's a few other things being written so that newbies >can understand them. One of the guys is organising people to help make sure >the text files on the CD and FTP site (README and so on) are correct and >make sense. There might be a lot of stuff happening we don't know about. Who needs the volunteer for reading the documentation? I'll help wherever i can, i'm always willing to read references and docs. I think making sure text files etc are correct, that is up to everyone. Anytime theres a proplem with text, i guess we should keep a record of it, then compile them in one searchable document, weather it be paper or screen format. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 00:40:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01308 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01268 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (oooooo@dialA2e.aei.ca [206.123.6.66]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22234; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:39:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3514CD68.EDD94F88@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:35:52 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Project for newbies References: <35148CCD.7CB64E84@whoever.com> <19980322172115.20462@welearn.com.au> <3514B3CF.7C886A81@whoever.com> <19980322181431.64480@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So, I have created on undernet the channel #BSD-Help that should be a central place where we can talk in real time in the future... If you are not in accord of the name of the channel or with the server group, say it! I will create a starting HTML page for proposition on "how to" and all that stuff. I will make rulez for who do what. I have a simple question: How many freebsd users in the world??? Does someone register them? So we continue to talk about, say what you have to say! :-) KapuT if you have tips for managing project... Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:46:39AM -0500, KapuT wrote: > > > Its simple, we can write a manual-- who will profit of our experiancies > > and trouble with admin and command. A real newbie's manual, not made > > by advanced user who dont remember how feel a newbie when he see > > Login: > > hehehehe > > > > So, just a project by newbie for newbie. And with that project, we can > > learn a lot. And I insist, for "no background---real newbie---lamer for > > some admin" user :-) and printable > > Great idea. Count me in! Anyone else? > > I might not qualify as the kind of "real newbie" you want for writing, > but I'll support it in any way I can. Just ask whenever you want my help. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 01:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06131 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06125 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:07:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01687; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3514D4D7.BB5BFB1E@dal.net> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:07:35 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoff Jukema CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: redundancy References: <3.0.5.32.19980322001904.007a4e90@silk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Geoff Jukema wrote: > Who needs the volunteer for reading the documentation? I'll help wherever i > can, i'm always willing to read references and docs. > I think making sure text files etc are correct, that is up to everyone. > Anytime theres a proplem with text, i guess we should keep a record of it, > then compile them in one searchable document, weather it be paper or screen > format. Thank you. :) All you need to participate is to start reading the FAQ and Handbook and mail freebsd-doc@freebsd.org when you find something that needs updating. You could also subscribe to that list if you're interested in more of the discussion stuff about the docs. Looking forward to hearing from you, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 03:11:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18856 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18824; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00365; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:10:57 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980322221053.08967@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:10:53 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: redundancy References: <3.0.5.32.19980322001904.007a4e90@silk.net> <3514D4D7.BB5BFB1E@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3514D4D7.BB5BFB1E@dal.net>; from Studded on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:07:35AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:07:35AM -0800, Studded wrote: > Geoff Jukema wrote: > > > Who needs the volunteer for reading the documentation? I'll help wherever i > > can, i'm always willing to read references and docs. > > I think making sure text files etc are correct, that is up to everyone. > > Anytime theres a proplem with text, i guess we should keep a record of it, > > then compile them in one searchable document, weather it be paper or screen > > format. > > Thank you. :) All you need to participate is to start reading the FAQ > and Handbook and mail freebsd-doc@freebsd.org when you find something > that needs updating. You could also subscribe to that list if you're > interested in more of the discussion stuff about the docs. For those who don't know I should explain that Doug is a volunteer who has been giving good easy to understand advice on freebsd-questions for quite some time, and has recently rejoined the freebsd-doc mailing list since taking on the job of coordinating the text files for the next CD. I'm really unsure whether or not newbies would be welcome to descend upon the documentation team in freebsd-doc. I've heard different opinions about whether that would change the way freebsd-doc works and whether or not that would be a good thing. Since a member of that mailing list has invited the newbies to rock on over I'm sending a copy of this email to both lists. An alternative would be to encourage the use of freebsd-newbies by anyone who wants to ask *us* for help for a change. There would be some advantages in that. It is clear that we don't know enough about how anything gets done for FreeBSD, or who does it, let alone how we could join in. Different people have different responsibilities. For example, it's my job to make sure that newbies have their own space to find ways of getting what they need. I know about a lot of what goes on, but it might be much better to hear directly from the people who are responsible for the different projects. That way nobody would ever sound like they're speaking on behalf of anyone else. The only problem I see with this is that some of you said you want to do things your own way. Some of you want to write your own documentation by yourselves, independent of the other the documentation work. You see it as a valuable way to learn and don't want to be told what it should look like for newbies. If I understand correctly, you just want the chance to get on and do it. There might be other newbies wanting to do someting else here without any expert directing them. There is no other place where you can do that. But maybe having our own space is not so important, or maybe the occasional visitor is OK if they don't break anything :-) It's up to the rest of you newbies to come to a single decision, and before you can decide on anything you have to find something that newbies agree on. And before you can do that you'll need time to talk among yourselves without anyone else's opinions. Right now we hardly know each other. I think the people in freebsd-doc will have some decisions to make as a whole group too. Doug, have you got all the people you need for your project or are you looking for newbies to volunteer? There are some other people who were looking for volunteers. It looks like some newbies are keen to help, so speak up. PS This is going to both lists, so be careful when you reply. Delete one address if you don't want it to go to both. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 03:58:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24853 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24845 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf86.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.86]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16258; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:58:21 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:27:39 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Any tips for updating? To: Omar Eljumaily cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803201924.LAA24385@unx1.omnicode.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri 20 Mar, Omar Eljumaily wrote: > Hi, > I'm running version 2.2.2 and am contemplating > updating to the latest release (2.2.5?). Anybody done > that and have any tips? I really don't understand the > CVS repository system. Anybody have any links that explain > how that works (in simple terms)? There is a program on the ftp/www-site : Cvsupit.tgz (or similar). Check the newsflash-section on the web-site and look some months/weeks back. If you have it, do a pkg_add %name_of_the_tgz% and follow the instructions. Note the shell-command it says to use to start it somewhere. It was really, honestly *dead-easy*. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 03:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24915 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24882 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf86.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.86]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16261; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:58:25 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:13:34 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: My QUESTION about ISDN ta's. To: Brandon Lockhart cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri 20 Mar, Brandon Lockhart wrote: > I am looking into a digital line that with compression can receive > 512kbps. It is a dedicated connection so I would need a good terminal > adaptor. I have 2 or 3 questions to ask. > > 1. 128kbps, using both B channels, with 4:1 compression would give > 512kbps. How would I go about actually using both B channels? I was > told that this was a very hard procedure to do, unless you had an ISDN > Router (plus terminal adaptor combined). I'm not an expert, but at that speed, wouldn't it be better to use an ISDN-router that you can plug together with your network-interface ? That way, it would use less CPU-time. If you've got a leased line, the cost of an ISDN-router isn't that much in comparison. > Is this true? If so, how > hard. What do you actually have to do? Do you use a program like > "ppp" to start the actual connection? I think, yes. It has some options for keeping a dedicated line up. Ask your ISP, if in doubt. > What? If you know a good place > I can find ISDN answers for FreeBSD, please point me towards the URL. There is an ISDN-mailing-list :-) > 2. Is anybody currently using an ISDN Terminal Adaptor and would > recommend there adaptor to me? Like I mentioned above, if it is very > hard to use both B channels, does anyone have an ISDN Router (and > terminal adaptor combined) they would recommend for ease, stability, > and speed? Better ask these questions on freebsd-isdn. Again, if you've got a leased line, there's no point (IMHO) in using a TA. It is intended for dial-up only, like a modem. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 03:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24916 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24867 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 03:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf86.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.86]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16255; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:58:19 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:49:21 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Slackware vs FreeBSD, aswell as my opinion on this list. To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980321090711.05316@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri 20 Mar, Sue Blake wrote: > Here's an example. The same day I installed I read up on how to build a new > kernel, using the handbook and FAQ together. I followed the instructions, > and voila! New kernel! No worries! Nervewracking, but it worked well. I waited some weeks.... but it worked first time (OK, some problems with LogiTech-Busmouse and IO-conflict, but it is in the LINT-file and I searched the mailing-lists). I don't think it is _that_ "nervewracking". > Months later I was still trying to figure out how to do simple things > like install ports. Hm. I first thought that the .tar.gz files actually were inside the /ports/whatever directories and forgot to mount the CD. > Does this mean that the kernel rebuilding stuff is very well written for a > newbie? IMHO, yes. At least for me. > I doubt it very much. It was perfectly written for me when I knew > nothing. Has anyone else tried following these instructions? Did it work or > not? It worked, as I said. > Can you follow it all except for one sentence somewhere? I still have problems with ISA-devices (i.e. my SB-card). But that's not important to me, so I can live without it (for now). I hate IRQs, DMA, whatever. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 04:39:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29068 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:39:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29063 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:39:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA00506; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:38:56 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980322233850.08822@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:38:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: root Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There's a tutorial for newbies at http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ which really does start from the login prompt! Pretty soon it gets to the part about adding a user for yourself and not doing everything as root. Now to unix people it makes good sense to restrict yourself as much as possible, but I've always found that a bit hard to get used to. All of the books tell us oooh, watch out, if you're root you might accidentally delete something! Well this is my computer and I've been deleting files on it for years, never asking anyone. How come suddenly I shouldn't trust myself to touch the damn thing after all these years? I should always be allowed to do what I want on my own PC. I killed two other operating systems to install FreeBSD and then someone's saying watch out? It's still my computer after all. So I wasn't convinced but eventually I did it the right way and didn't log in as root unless it was necessary. Now I'm pretty used to the idea and even like it, but I've always wondered, do other people find it so hard to get used to working with that restriction? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 04:48:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29744 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:48:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hil-img-6.compuserve.com (hil-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29739 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 04:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 101355.2112@compuserve.com) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id HAA08877 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:48:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:43:56 -0500 From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: groupes d'utilisateurs To: FreeBSD newbies Message-ID: <199803220747_MC2-3794-1EC7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I write this message in French, because we are french peoples. * * Il existe a Toulouse un club Linux, le CULTe * la majorite de nos membres sont des Linuxiens, * mais nous voulons etendre nos activites a tous * les systemes libre ou "alternatifs". * * En particulier, un expert de FreeBSD serait * le bienvenu parmi nous ! * * pour plus d'information, envoyer un e-mail a * linux-31@sorengo.com * en demandant comment contact avec nous. * Thierry Boudet / happy computer user. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 07:48:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14680 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca (smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca [24.112.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14626 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wwolf@rogers.wave.ca) Received: from mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca ([24.113.32.4]) by smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca with ESMTP id <514238-14748>; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:47:25 -0500 Received: from altair.ns.bc.rogers.wave.ca ([24.113.53.151]) by mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca with SMTP id <336181-4423>; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:47:07 -0500 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:47:45 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Broza X-Sender: wwolf@altair.ns.bc.rogers.wave.ca To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Project for newbies In-Reply-To: <19980322181431.64480@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:46:39AM -0500, KapuT wrote: > > > Its simple, we can write a manual-- who will profit of our experiancies > > and trouble with admin and command. A real newbie's manual, not made > > by advanced user who dont remember how feel a newbie when he see > > Login: > > hehehehe > > > > So, just a project by newbie for newbie. And with that project, we can > > learn a lot. And I insist, for "no background---real newbie---lamer for > > some admin" user :-) and printable > > Great idea. Count me in! Anyone else? > > I might not qualify as the kind of "real newbie" you want for writing, > but I'll support it in any way I can. Just ask whenever you want my help. > Excellant idea, add my name to your list.. -Richard Broza To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 08:33:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18134 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18127 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA00932; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:32:48 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323033244.21481@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:32:44 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: KapuT Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Project for newbies References: <35148CCD.7CB64E84@whoever.com> <19980322172115.20462@welearn.com.au> <3514B3CF.7C886A81@whoever.com> <19980322181431.64480@welearn.com.au> <3514CD68.EDD94F88@whoever.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3514CD68.EDD94F88@whoever.com>; from KapuT on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 03:35:52AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 03:35:52AM -0500, KapuT wrote: > So, I have created on undernet the channel #BSD-Help > that should be a central place where we can talk in real time in the > future... > > If you are not in accord of the name of the channel or with the server group, > say it! I'm not into IRC much, but I'll have a go if you can help me find it. I'm using IrcII. How can I find out what to type after /server to get to the right place? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 08:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18598 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA18592 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lfloyd@sonic.net) Received: (qmail 22191 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1998 16:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (root@208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1998 16:41:56 -0000 Received: from sonic.net (d41.pm.sonic.net [208.201.229.41]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12366 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:39:44 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <35153F41.3F8C5324@sonic.net> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:41:37 -0800 From: "L. Floyd" Reply-To: lfloyd@sonic.net Organization: MonkeyPuzzle Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: groupes d'utilisateurs References: <199803220747_MC2-3794-1EC7@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thierry Boudet wrote: > > I write this message in French, because we are french peoples. > > * > * Il existe a Toulouse un club Linux, le CULTe > * la majorite de nos membres sont des Linuxiens, > * mais nous voulons etendre nos activites a tous > * les systemes libre ou "alternatifs". > * > * En particulier, un expert de FreeBSD serait > * le bienvenu parmi nous ! > * > * pour plus d'information, envoyer un e-mail a > * linux-31@sorengo.com > * en demandant comment contact avec nous. > * > > Thierry Boudet / happy computer user. > Roughly translated: "In Toulouse there is a Linux club, 'le CULTe'. Most of our members are 'Linuxiens', but we would like to extend our activities to all free or alternative operating systems. In particular, a FreeBSD expert would be welcome among us! For more information, email: linux-31@sorengo.com asking how to contact us." - Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 09:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27896 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from riptide.wavetech.net (root@riptide.WaveTech.net [206.146.144.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27891 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:38:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from white@wavetech.net) Received: from cliff (taz@pm3b-169.dynam.WaveTech.net [206.146.145.170]) by riptide.wavetech.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA13387 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:34:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803221734.LAA13387@riptide.wavetech.net> X-Sender: white@mail.wavetech.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:36:59 -0600 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Karen White Subject: Newbie Manual Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you are interested in using someone that is a TRUE newbie as a "gage" on how helpful your new manual will be.. please do not hesitate to use me. I am completely brand new to the Unix world and so far I have only been able to setup the basics on my FreeBSD. It took me 1 week just to get X-Windows to work and another 4 days to figure out how to change the window manager. I am still trying to figure out how to get my PPP to work 100% correctly. Anyways... like I said, if you would like to have someone that you can use to see how helpful the new manual really is to a TRUE Newbie.. please let me know. Besides, I could use all the help I can get :) Thanx,. Karen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:29:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14317 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14283 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node63.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.63]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04477 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:33 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323042732.00ad1900@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:28:21 -0300 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Organizational issue for this list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, ppl: I have a suggestion to our - and possibly all other - list: It's out of our hands, so I belive it needs to be voted, aproved and then submited to the responsible for majordomo. Whe I am writting to a list, and receiving email from a list, all the replies that I write - as far as I concern - should go to the list. It seems to be common sense to me. But things like what happened - I have sent a reply to Sue, instead of to the list - can cause us some wanste of time in the best case. More than that, sometimes, the best answer to a problem is lost because someone forgot to CC the list on that particular reply ! If one is not part of the list and wants to get eply on his/her question, just let us know about this or include him/herself on the cc field of the original email ! It works ! I would like to suggest that the "reply-to" field was changed to contain "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG", instead of keeping the original sender's address. The actual sender could be identified by another field like "X-Author" or something like that. Here in Brazil our list works like that. If you need to reply to someone who does not belong to the list you just include the address on the CC field and you're done. An example: >From: Luiz Rogerio Goncalves de Carvalho >Subject: Re: [freebsd] servidor tcp >To: freebsd@SBQ.Org.BR >Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:35:56 -0300 (EST) >Sender: owner-freebsd@SBQ.Org.BR >Reply-To: freebsd@SBQ.Org.BR > Note that the "[freebsd]" tag added to the subject line makes it easier to filter you tons of email in the end of the semester/year/whatever time period you use to clean up your computer. a good tag for our group could be [FBSD-newbie]. Your opinions ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14372 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14284 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node63.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.63]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04470 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:28 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323033052.009307e0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:28:17 -0300 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FreeBSD-XWindow problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We need some more details about how you setup your X. More specifically, I am not very sure about which X server is supposed to run with the Matrox millenium. Can you confirm that ? If it is actually the SVGA server, you may have a configuration problem that can be solved by reconfiguring it. It would be nice to take a look at the output of startx. could you try startx > out.txt and send us the file, so we can see what's going on ? At 01:35 PM 3/22/98 +0700, you wrote: >>>> Dear, FreeBSD team. I have purchased FreeBSD 2.2.5 from Walnut Creek, I have installed to my computer, (PII/300 64 MB, Matrox Mellenium 2 MB, HD 4.2 GB) and successful. I want to run X Window and I already configure the XFREE, /stand/sysinstall. After that I run startxCannot find server, server available XF86_SVGA, and so on. Can you tell me what should I do about this problem? Thanks a lot. Regards, NurHadi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14388 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14323 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@aeiusrG-41.aei.ca [206.186.205.91]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09686; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:28:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3515657E.74EE37DD@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:24:46 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Project for newbies References: <35148CCD.7CB64E84@whoever.com> <19980322172115.20462@welearn.com.au> <3514B3CF.7C886A81@whoever.com> <19980322181431.64480@welearn.com.au> <3514CD68.EDD94F88@whoever.com> <19980323033244.21481@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------600B842EF38B7486EFF8B5C4" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------600B842EF38B7486EFF8B5C4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, right, I prefer than we "collaborate" (fuck, I forget the english word!) with doc people like Doug. But there is a problem: I find them static. Static because the date on the paper is August 15, 1997. Ark! But I haved an idea with HTML who can do centralisation with participation: I will work on it to day, and you will see the result. I dont know how to explain it, much like a kind of
(formulary in HTML) where you will find all the page and where you will be abble to edit the text and send to me the new text, where you will be abble to create new part and send to me. I will do the starting page at http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html So, all thing will rapidly change, typing error and bad english will be corrected. And new part of the text, or modification eazy. ok? so, all devellopers area will be of number 0.1 or 0.x and after, contents and after we start with 1.0 Login: little ircII tutorial :-) Now, if your under BSD right now, and you want to chat. Go to the port tkirc (you should run Xfree86 for that port!). I dont remember, but it should be /usr/ports/net/tkirc not sure Find it and "make it" like, when your in the directory of the port tkirc, you write make then it will do the download and you must be on the internet! after, when finished make install and finally make clean Ok, right, its not currently the best explantion :-) after all, if it work, you type tkirc in an Xterm (you should have X-window) and after the command /server, you should put the server is name and a port like /server toronto.on.ca.undernet.org 7777 find some server of undernet near you. If you prefer we can do it on dalnet... I dont care cya KapuT please, no one know how many FreeBSD machines are up? :-) Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 03:35:52AM -0500, KapuT wrote: > > So, I have created on undernet the channel #BSD-Help > > that should be a central place where we can talk in real time in the > > future... > > > > If you are not in accord of the name of the channel or with the server group, > > say it! > > I'm not into IRC much, but I'll have a go if you can help me find it. I'm > using IrcII. How can I find out what to type after /server to get to the > right place? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** --------------600B842EF38B7486EFF8B5C4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, right, I prefer than we "collaborate" (fuck, I forget the english word!) with doc people like Doug.
But there is a problem: I find them static.  Static because the date on the paper is
August 15, 1997.
Ark!
But I haved an idea with HTML who can do centralisation with participation:
I will work on it to day, and you will see the result.  I dont know how to explain it, much like a kind of <FORM> (formulary in HTML) where you will find all the page and where you will be abble to edit the text and send to me the new text, where you will be abble to create new part and send to me.  I will do the starting page at
http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html
So, all thing will rapidly change, typing error and bad english will be corrected.  And new part of the text, or modification eazy.
ok?
so, all devellopers area will be of number 0.1 or 0.x
and after, contents and after we start with 1.0 Login:

little ircII tutorial :-)
Now, if your under BSD right now, and you want to chat.  Go to the port tkirc (you should run Xfree86 for that port!).
I dont remember, but it should be /usr/ports/net/tkirc
not sure
Find it and "make it"
like, when your in the directory of the port tkirc, you write
make
then it will do the download and you must be on the internet!
after, when finished
make install
and finally
make clean

Ok, right, its not currently the best explantion :-)
after all, if it work, you type tkirc in an Xterm (you should have X-window)

and after the command /server, you should put the server is name and a port
like
/server toronto.on.ca.undernet.org 7777
find some server of undernet near you.
If you prefer we can do it on dalnet...  I dont care

cya
KapuT

please, no one know how many FreeBSD machines are up? :-)

Sue Blake wrote:

On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 03:35:52AM -0500, KapuT wrote:
> So, I have created on undernet the channel #BSD-Help
> that should be a central place where we can talk in real time in the
> future...
>
> If you are not in accord of the name of the channel or with the server group,
> say it!

I'm not into IRC much, but I'll have a go if you can help me find it. I'm
using IrcII. How can I find out what to type after /server to get to the
right place?

--

Regards,
        -*Sue*-

find / -name "*.conf" |more

 

--
***************************
kaput@whoever.com
www.aei.ca/~malartre/
ICQ #4224434
IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid
Undernet #FreeBSD
Windows95
Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6
***************************
  --------------600B842EF38B7486EFF8B5C4-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:29:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14423 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14312 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node63.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.63]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04486; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:37 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323042507.0094e370@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:28:25 -0300 To: Sue Blake From: Capriotti Subject: Re: redundancy Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I apologize for private-answering this, Sue. It was my mistake. Let's get this back to the list, since it's where it belongs to. At 03:24 AM 3/23/98 +1100, you wrote: >On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:36:10PM -0300, Capriotti wrote: >> > >> >> I'll help out where I can. >> > >> >Is anyone else interested in helping too? >> >> >> Count on me. I've been lookinbg for something like that. I can't code but I >> feel I can help "tranlating" technichese to english we can understamd. > >That's the spirit! :-) >There's a few ways to do it: > >You could write to freebsd-doc@freebsd.org and tell them what you can do and >that you're available. Tell them you're not a member of freebsd-doc and >they'll make sure you get your replies by email. > >You could rely on anyone who visits freebsd-newbies to point you to people >who want help, but that would be slower. I'm not sure whether it'll work out >that way, and I'm hoping that the rest of -newbies will discuss it a bit to >decide if that's a good method. Actually, I'm hoping that everyone will >discuss everything! It's about time newbies started being allowed to make >their own decisions as a group, sharing ideas. Yes I know, everyone's still >a bit shy for a while. > >You could start reading almost any of the stuff listed on >http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html and giving feedback. If you do, it'd be >nice if you could let the other newbies know you're doing it so that they'll >know that the work is being spread around. I feel we all can contribute dong this, but we need to be organized ! We can't just say "I'm doing this !" and that's it. I feel we could first put our goals and ideas toghether, pick up a couple of our volunteers, and then offer our help to freebsd-doc. Working for the FreeBSD is great, but doing things w/o organization my not help at all. Counting with FreeBSD "blessing" in important and may be a lot more productive than trying it by ourselves. In short: put ideas on the "paper" see if those ideas were put on "paper" (man, FAQs, etd) find a couple of budies to be responsible for this job (newbies) talk to the advanced guys ionvolved and discuss ideas with them once ideas are equalized, start reading, writting and publishing > >> I suggest we look for ppl involved with documantatios project and ask/offer >> our efforts. > >Of course you're only suggesting that to me in private mail, so it's >private. If you feel like it, you could say so on freebsd-newbies so that >others can use your idea too. > Well, not in PVT anymore ! > >> (Sometimes I feel that the free's HP shuld include some information like >> "free help wanted: we are looking for ppl who can bla bla bla..." so that >> we could actualy know where we can - or not - be of any use.) > >It's going to take everyone a little time to get used to having newbies >around (even for us!). I think it will be fast. One can't make an operating system - or any other program - and imagine that only experts will like/join it. All in all, nwebies are the real stranght of FreeBSD, because they are the ones who spread the idea. > >When our group is more together it'll be easy to invite someone to come in >and ask us whenever help is needed with something, if that's the way >everyone wants to do it. Meanwhile we can get toghether, show that we may be newbies, but it does not mean we're not intelligent an capable, and kindly do something useful to ourselves and to newcomers ! What a wonderful way to show that something works and is important, huh ? > We can do some things without waiting for that, so >we have to find out what we want to help with and what we want to do by >ourselves. I'm very reluctant to make any decisions for all newbies based on >one person's ideas, especially if they're my ideas, so we all need to chat >about it on the mailing list. > Kay, people. It's time to get organized ! Stop talking about things ( not being redundant) and set up our "Wish list" for a "Welcome newbie" stuff. This is the written side of the story; There is also the FUG side suggested by KapuT, but I'd better stay woth the written side: Ain't got no time to get togheter :( Ideas ? Suggestion ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:30:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15345 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14330 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node63.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.63]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04480; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:35 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323035935.009d3a50@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:28:23 -0300 To: Karen White From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Newbie Manual Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ahmmm... You're not related to doug White, are you ??? heheh just kiding. Karen: You're lucky ! it took you only one week to get X running ? I took something about 1,5 year to put things to work ok with FBSD ! hehehe I mean it. My first free version was 2.0.5, which wouldn't recognize my CD-ROM installed on the 2nd IDE controller and so on... It was hard, but here we are, making history :) Welcome to the group, and talking about newbies, whenever someone say something you just can't get, help us: say something like "Too tech stuff ! I need more reality here, guys/gals !!!" ok ? At 11:36 AM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >If you are interested in using someone that is a TRUE newbie as a "gage" on >how >helpful your new manual will be.. please do not hesitate to use me. > >I am completely brand new to the Unix world and so far I have only been >able to >setup the basics on my FreeBSD. It took me 1 week just to get X-Windows to >work >and another 4 days to figure out how to change the window manager. I am still >trying to figure out how to get my PPP to work 100% correctly. > >Anyways... like I said, if you would like to have someone that you can use >to see >how helpful the new manual really is to a TRUE Newbie.. please let me know. >Besides, >I could use all the help I can get :) > >Thanx,. > Karen > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:44:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18607 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18294 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node63.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.63]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04874 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:44:09 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323044204.00ad1990@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:44:08 -0300 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: We are not listed... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We are not at http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook315.html#663 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:46:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19133 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19014 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@aeiusrG-41.aei.ca [206.186.205.91]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11700; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:44:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3515694A.EFA5DACB@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:40:58 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Capriotti CC: Karen White , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbie Manual References: <3.0.32.19980323035935.009d3a50@pop.mpc.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 2 month for me :-) It can be because I was stupid ;-) and another month to add a window manager so your not alone :-) KapuT Capriotti wrote: > Ahmmm... You're not related to doug White, are you ??? heheh just kiding. > > Karen: You're lucky ! it took you only one week to get X running ? I took > something about 1,5 year to put things to work ok with FBSD ! hehehe > > I mean it. My first free version was 2.0.5, which wouldn't recognize my > CD-ROM installed on the 2nd IDE controller and so on... It was hard, but > here we are, making history :) > > Welcome to the group, and talking about newbies, whenever someone say > something you just can't get, help us: say something like "Too tech stuff ! > I need more reality here, guys/gals !!!" ok ? > > At 11:36 AM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: > >If you are interested in using someone that is a TRUE newbie as a "gage" on > >how > >helpful your new manual will be.. please do not hesitate to use me. > > > >I am completely brand new to the Unix world and so far I have only been > >able to > >setup the basics on my FreeBSD. It took me 1 week just to get X-Windows to > >work > >and another 4 days to figure out how to change the window manager. I am still > >trying to figure out how to get my PPP to work 100% correctly. > > > >Anyways... like I said, if you would like to have someone that you can use > >to see > >how helpful the new manual really is to a TRUE Newbie.. please let me know. > >Besides, > >I could use all the help I can get :) > > > >Thanx,. > > Karen > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 11:52:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20941 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:52:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20914 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@aeiusrG-41.aei.ca [206.186.205.91]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11913; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:46:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351569A7.45FBB8DA@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:42:31 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Capriotti CC: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: redundancy References: <3.0.32.19980323042507.0094e370@pop.mpc.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All than Capriotti write is true... Newbie spread the Idea. I dont understand why you do all thing for advanced user... Who buy the PC right now? New Users Who put windows 95 in the garbage? New users who find after 6 month than Win95 was bullshit Why they put FreeBSD in the garbage? To much hard and undocumented. You can buy 15 Linux guide in some Bookstores... So, FreeBSD core team should review "To who we sell the 4 CD pack?" :-) KapuT Capriotti wrote: > I apologize for private-answering this, Sue. It was my mistake. > > Let's get this back to the list, since it's where it belongs to. > > At 03:24 AM 3/23/98 +1100, you wrote: > >On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:36:10PM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > >> > > >> >> I'll help out where I can. > >> > > >> >Is anyone else interested in helping too? > >> > >> > >> Count on me. I've been lookinbg for something like that. I can't code but I > >> feel I can help "tranlating" technichese to english we can understamd. > > > >That's the spirit! :-) > >There's a few ways to do it: > > > >You could write to freebsd-doc@freebsd.org and tell them what you can do and > >that you're available. Tell them you're not a member of freebsd-doc and > >they'll make sure you get your replies by email. > > > >You could rely on anyone who visits freebsd-newbies to point you to people > >who want help, but that would be slower. I'm not sure whether it'll work out > >that way, and I'm hoping that the rest of -newbies will discuss it a bit to > >decide if that's a good method. Actually, I'm hoping that everyone will > >discuss everything! It's about time newbies started being allowed to make > >their own decisions as a group, sharing ideas. Yes I know, everyone's still > >a bit shy for a while. > > > >You could start reading almost any of the stuff listed on > >http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html and giving feedback. If you do, it'd be > >nice if you could let the other newbies know you're doing it so that they'll > >know that the work is being spread around. > > I feel we all can contribute dong this, but we need to be organized ! We > can't just say "I'm doing this !" and that's it. > > I feel we could first put our goals and ideas toghether, pick up a couple > of our volunteers, and then offer our help to freebsd-doc. Working for the > FreeBSD is great, but doing things w/o organization my not help at all. > > Counting with FreeBSD "blessing" in important and may be a lot more > productive than trying it by ourselves. > > In short: put ideas on the "paper" > see if those ideas were put on "paper" (man, FAQs, etd) > find a couple of budies to be responsible for this job (newbies) > talk to the advanced guys ionvolved and discuss ideas with them > once ideas are equalized, start reading, writting and publishing > > > > >> I suggest we look for ppl involved with documantatios project and ask/offer > >> our efforts. > > > >Of course you're only suggesting that to me in private mail, so it's > >private. If you feel like it, you could say so on freebsd-newbies so that > >others can use your idea too. > > > > Well, not in PVT anymore ! > > > > >> (Sometimes I feel that the free's HP shuld include some information like > >> "free help wanted: we are looking for ppl who can bla bla bla..." so that > >> we could actualy know where we can - or not - be of any use.) > > > >It's going to take everyone a little time to get used to having newbies > >around (even for us!). > > I think it will be fast. One can't make an operating system - or any other > program - and imagine that only experts will like/join it. > > All in all, nwebies are the real stranght of FreeBSD, because they are the > ones who spread the idea. > > > > >When our group is more together it'll be easy to invite someone to come in > >and ask us whenever help is needed with something, if that's the way > >everyone wants to do it. > > Meanwhile we can get toghether, show that we may be newbies, but it does > not mean we're not intelligent an capable, and kindly do something useful > to ourselves and to newcomers ! What a wonderful way to show that something > works and is important, huh ? > > > We can do some things without waiting for that, so > >we have to find out what we want to help with and what we want to do by > >ourselves. I'm very reluctant to make any decisions for all newbies based on > >one person's ideas, especially if they're my ideas, so we all need to chat > >about it on the mailing list. > > > > Kay, people. It's time to get organized ! Stop talking about things ( not > being redundant) and set up our "Wish list" for a "Welcome newbie" stuff. > > This is the written side of the story; There is also the FUG side suggested > by KapuT, but I'd better stay woth the written side: Ain't got no time to > get togheter :( > > Ideas ? Suggestion ? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 12:15:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24815 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:15:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24527 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:14:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09363; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:13:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:13:58 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: root In-Reply-To: <19980322233850.08822@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > Pretty soon it gets to the part about adding a user for yourself and > not doing everything as root. Now to unix people it makes good sense to > restrict yourself as much as possible, but I've always found that a bit hard > to get used to. There are many issues here. Most of it goes back to the way Unix was designed to be used. You (and everyone) is used to doing as they wish on their own computers, but you haven't been running multiuser operating systems. Unix is designed to expect you to be doing things from a user account. Programs expect you to do things from a user account. Much of the robustness and stability of Unix come from the fact that user processes are restricted. You lose a lot of that by running as root all the time. You also have much less safety net running as root than you do running in something like windows. rm really does just remove the file. No intermediate recycle bin there. mkfs? No "are you really sure?!". Ooops! Unix doesn't want or need to baby you. Some of that comes from the expectation that you won't be root until you *need* to be root. It's also a security issue. If you run your own machine in your home, notnetworked, then it really doesn't make too much difference. But once you get in the habit of running as root, you will have a hard time breaking it. When you end up being the admin of some machine at work (likely if it becomes known that you know about Unix), you are really likely to be causing problems by running as root all the time. Problems for yourself and problems for the company. I understand that this may seem difficult to new users, but it has good reasons behind it. Just as with anything else that is new, there are some things that you need to just take from the people who know more without understanding; the understanding will come later as you learn more. I promise you that if you really get to know Unix, you will shudder at the idea of some poor person running as root all the time ;-) Sean -- "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 12:46:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29181 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29176 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:46:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-43.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.140]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20836; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> cc: FreeBSD newbies Subject: Re: groupes d'utilisateurs In-Reply-To: <199803220747_MC2-3794-1EC7@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone translate? bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Thierry Boudet wrote: > I write this message in French, because we are french peoples. > > * > * Il existe a Toulouse un club Linux, le CULTe > * la majorite de nos membres sont des Linuxiens, > * mais nous voulons etendre nos activites a tous > * les systemes libre ou "alternatifs". > * > * En particulier, un expert de FreeBSD serait > * le bienvenu parmi nous ! > * > * pour plus d'information, envoyer un e-mail a > * linux-31@sorengo.com > * en demandant comment contact avec nous. > * > > Thierry Boudet / happy computer user. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 12:57:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01954 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01933 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-43.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.140]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA22351 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:55:15 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbies writing manuals Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, from what I understand is that there are a bunch of newbies wanting to write manuals. Right? I just want to make sure if it's newbies wanting to write manuals, or newbies wanting advanced users to write manuals *for* newbies. Would be ridiculous for a newbie (assuming that the newbie doesn't know anything) to actually sit down and write a manual or something. Anyways, I support a project for writing simple manual pages and docs. Step by Step how-to's are also important. It's not also important for the advanced users to write simple stuff for newbies, but for corporations as well. Let's imagine a world where corporations can adopt freebsd as their intranet server based on the fact that it's easy to use and *free*. A world where people won't choose Windows NT over FreeBSD or Linux, or whatever just because it's a simple point and click thing. Actually, with the right window manager, Linux or FreeBSD can be a point and click OS. KDE is doing a hell of a job at doing that. For your newbies coming from a windows world, once you get X figured out try using KDE. Go to www.kde.org for all the info and stuff. bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 13:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03650 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:03:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03631 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA01535; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:01:56 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323080152.35081@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:01:52 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Capriotti Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Organizational issue for this list References: <3.0.32.19980323042732.00ad1900@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323042732.00ad1900@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 04:28:21AM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org OK, I'm going to argue against you here because there's nobody else around to do it, and because there are a few more things to consider. On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 04:28:21AM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > Ok, ppl: I have a suggestion to our - and possibly all other - list: > > It's out of our hands, so I belive it needs to be voted, aproved and then > submited to the responsible for majordomo. Let's assume for a minute that it would be changed if everyone wanted it. Everyone is a lot of people. The change would have to be wanted by the participants on all of the FreeBSD mailing lists. Here they are: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html Count them! (and add one for newbies, it's coming). Most of them have a lot more users than our list, as you'll realise if you've ever subscribed to freebsd-questions. Eventually we'll stop being newbies and have more to contribute to the other lists. There are a lot of requirements for people who post to the FreeBSD lists and you might as well get used to them here, where I'm not going to jump down anyone's throat while they're learning. See below for examples. > Whe I am writting to a list, and receiving email from a list, all the > replies that I write - as far as I concern - should go to the list. OK, then set your software up so that it does that, or learn how to make it do that (it might be called group-reply, reply-to-all, list-reply). Learn to work with the To: and Cc: headers. You'll have to do that anyway if you want to participate elsewhere. If your software won't let you do these things then it probably does a lot of other things wrong to. Use something better (I like mutt). > It seems to be common sense to me. But things like what happened - I have > sent a reply to Sue, instead of to the list - can cause us some wanste of > time in the best case. Ah, is that what happened :-) I've made mistakes like that too, BIG ones, and not always because I wasn't used to the headers. A few times the headers were to blame though. I was on one of those lists where they do put the list address in the reply-to and didn't realise. I replied to someone on the list saying all sorts of personal things, and hit r for a normal reply to the person sending the email. Wasn't I surprised when I got angry answers from everywhere! > More than that, sometimes, the best answer to a problem is lost because > someone forgot to CC the list on that particular reply ! Judging by the size of my personal mail box, I suspect that does happen a lot with this list :-) But some people have written to me because they are too shy to post to the list. I can't always tell what the reason was, and I don't have the right to repost private mail to the list. Yes it is a shame sometimes. It'll take more than a few days to get used to how it works. Meanwhile, if you accidentally send it privately, send it again straight away, but to the list. > Note that the "[freebsd]" tag added to the subject line makes it easier to > filter you tons of email in the end of the semester/year/whatever time > period you use to clean up your computer. > > a good tag for our group could be [FBSD-newbie]. I run another mailing list where we do that and it works very well. Everyone on that list uses different operating systems and most of them can't find decent mail software written for them, so they need all the help they can get. Under FreeBSD we have lots of software that does the work for us. Also, the majority of people who use FreeBSD have been doing these things for a very long time and they have developed certain habits and expectations. If you don't conform to the common standards and conventions I'm afraid you're not going to be accepted by FreeBSD users on the other lists. They'll find your mail too hard to deal with and ignore it when there's 200 another well written emails to deal with. Some of the things that we do here would make us the laughing stock on any list used by professionals. For example, some people don't reply as if it's an email but treat it like a letter. They type everything they want to say all by itself at the top, and then quote the whole of the original message below. When I read it I have to read it backwards to get any meaning. When I reply, it's a nightmare to make sense of it so usually I don't bother to reply. Another problem is text that doesn't line wrap when it gets to about 70-75 characters long. I end up seeing the first 80 characters of each paragraph! How am I going to reply to that? If I'm really busy and 50 people are demanding my urgent attention, who do you think is going to have to wait? A few times, I can handle it. If it keeps happening it can drive me crazy like a dripping tap. I'm ready for anything here in -newbies, but you won't get away with any of these things elsewhere. So I guess I'm saying think of these as all part of a learning process where there's a lot of new conventions and habits to change, and take advantage of our patient environment to start making those changes now, while you can. http://www.lemis.com/email.html has a lot more information about this. Highly recommended. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 13:23:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05756 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trojan.troyst.edu (trojan.troyst.edu [198.179.130.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05748 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjadcock@trojan.troyst.edu) Received: from [198.179.130.8] by trojan.troyst.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA12026; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:20:49 -0600 Received: by bite-me with Microsoft Mail id <01BD55A6.57ECA2E0@bite-me>; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:22:36 -0600 Message-Id: <01BD55A6.57ECA2E0@bite-me> From: Matthew Adcock To: "'FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Project for newbies Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:22:53 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA05749 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Count me in too. I just started running FreeBSD a few weeks ago and have been sorely disappointed by the amount of documentation. Most of what I've done, I've had to figure out myself or learn from others. I'd love to be involved with a newbie doc project. Matt ---------- From: Sue Blake[SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] Sent: Sunday, March 22, 1998 1:14 AM To: KapuT Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Project for newbies On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:46:39AM -0500, KapuT wrote: > Its simple, we can write a manual-- who will profit of our experiancies > and trouble with admin and command. A real newbie's manual, not made > by advanced user who dont remember how feel a newbie when he see > Login: > hehehehe > > So, just a project by newbie for newbie. And with that project, we can > learn a lot. And I insist, for "no background---real newbie---lamer for > some admin" user :-) and printable Great idea. Count me in! Anyone else? I might not qualify as the kind of "real newbie" you want for writing, but I'll support it in any way I can. Just ask whenever you want my help. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 13:28:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06441 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:28:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06400 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA01582; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:28:02 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323082759.29465@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:27:59 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Joey Garcia Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Joey Garcia on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 12:55:20PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 12:55:20PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Okay, from what I understand is that there are a bunch of newbies wanting > to write manuals. Right? I just want to make sure if it's newbies > wanting to write manuals, or newbies wanting advanced users to write > manuals *for* newbies. Would be ridiculous for a newbie (assuming that > the newbie doesn't know anything) to actually sit down and write a manual > or something. Apparently you're not a newbie. Please don't come into our space and then tell us that what we want to do is ridiculous. Maybe you accidentally chose the wrong word there :-) I know you mean well and the rest of your message is very helpful, but we can't learn unless we are allowed to take some risks and make mistakes. It's good to know what the risks are, sure, but like everyone we value our own ideas. Some of us happen to think that writing our own manuals is a good idea. Later on we can change our mind or we can go ahead and complete it or change it into something else if we feel like it. That's up to us to find out. For the official manuals I agree, a high quality of technical and writing skill is essential. But their purpose is very different! Their purpose is to dish out information; our purpose is to learn by doing. This is the first chance most of us have had to help each other learn without fear of making mistakes or being judged by them. OK, sorry to be heavy but if I don't jump down your throat now others will follow and we'll be spending all our time trying to recover from lack of courage instead of learning :-) > Anyways, I support a project for writing simple manual pages and docs. > Step by Step how-to's are also important. It's not also important for the > advanced users to write simple stuff for newbies, but for corporations as > well. One thing we do need as newbies is manuals that we can rely on as being correct. Even if our systems survive the wrong advice, it's hard to unlearn something and learn it again another way. So I agree, without advanced users writing these things we wouldn't have the guidance we need. Anything that newbies write for newbies will be risky to use unless someone like you volunteers to check it for acuracy *after* it's finished. Then we might have to rewrite the whole thing before it can be used, and get to learn a whole lot more. But maybe we don't care if it's used. Maybe sometimes we do things just for the fun of doing them. And I know you like to have fun as well! :-) If you have any more info I'm sure you have an appreciative audience. Just watch the R word :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 13:44:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08406 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anubis.combox.de (reserve.combox.de [194.162.192.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08395 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:44:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from finger@bln.de) Received: from bln.de (host1.bln.de [194.162.193.241]) by anubis.combox.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16620 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3515856C.B3FE9339@bln.de> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:41:01 +0100 From: Alexander Finger Reply-To: finger@mindless.com Organization: Alexander F!nger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: How to shutdown the laptop... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.5 on my AcerNote 370pcx Laptop, everything works fine.... but I can't "zzz" my laptop... if I try, the machine hangs up completely without any "famous last words...." or something else... It takes no matter if I try it with or without the APM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK workaround. Is there something else I could try? Reading the man-pages and looking around for HOW-TOs etc... wasn't successfull /satisfying till now... I'm not sure if this question is right here (newbie enough or too technical... // something else) so if I'm completely off-topic, please give me a hint where I have to ask... Thanks a lot for your time... ...best regards from Berlin... Alexander To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 13:57:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11236 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:57:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11190 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3g-29.pacificnet.net (pm3g-29.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.78]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01406; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:54:51 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:54:56 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals In-Reply-To: <19980323082759.29465@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, I get your point...but I don't consider that actually jumping down my throat. :) And I still consider myself to be a newbie, I've only been using Unix on a daily basis for about 6 months now and it's not really enough to say that I'm an experienced user. I have lot's to learn. Anyways, the thing is....I don't mind a newbie writing amanual page or how-to so as long as the information is correct. I'll be willing to write as much as I know about different topics. Or maybe give ideas to knew users on where to find applications or help. I do support the project, ya know. Know what I mean? bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 12:55:20PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > Okay, from what I understand is that there are a bunch of newbies wanting > > to write manuals. Right? I just want to make sure if it's newbies > > wanting to write manuals, or newbies wanting advanced users to write > > manuals *for* newbies. Would be ridiculous for a newbie (assuming that > > the newbie doesn't know anything) to actually sit down and write a manual > > or something. > > Apparently you're not a newbie. Please don't come into our space and then > tell us that what we want to do is ridiculous. Maybe you accidentally chose > the wrong word there :-) > > I know you mean well and the rest of your message is very helpful, but we > can't learn unless we are allowed to take some risks and make mistakes. It's > good to know what the risks are, sure, but like everyone we value our own > ideas. Some of us happen to think that writing our own manuals is a good > idea. Later on we can change our mind or we can go ahead and complete it or > change it into something else if we feel like it. That's up to us to find > out. > > For the official manuals I agree, a high quality of technical and writing > skill is essential. But their purpose is very different! > Their purpose is to dish out information; our purpose is to learn by doing. > This is the first chance most of us have had to help each other learn > without fear of making mistakes or being judged by them. > > OK, sorry to be heavy but if I don't jump down your throat now others will > follow and we'll be spending all our time trying to recover from lack of > courage instead of learning :-) > > > > Anyways, I support a project for writing simple manual pages and docs. > > Step by Step how-to's are also important. It's not also important for the > > advanced users to write simple stuff for newbies, but for corporations as > > well. > > One thing we do need as newbies is manuals that we can rely on as being > correct. Even if our systems survive the wrong advice, it's hard to unlearn > something and learn it again another way. So I agree, without advanced users > writing these things we wouldn't have the guidance we need. > > Anything that newbies write for newbies will be risky to use unless someone > like you volunteers to check it for acuracy *after* it's finished. Then we > might have to rewrite the whole thing before it can be used, and get to > learn a whole lot more. But maybe we don't care if it's used. Maybe > sometimes we do things just for the fun of doing them. And I know you like > to have fun as well! :-) > > If you have any more info I'm sure you have an appreciative audience. > Just watch the R word :-) > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:13:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14069 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:13:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13934 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01728; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:11:01 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323091057.18139@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:10:57 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: finger@mindless.com Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: How to shutdown the laptop... References: <3515856C.B3FE9339@bln.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3515856C.B3FE9339@bln.de>; from Alexander Finger on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:41:01PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:41:01PM +0100, Alexander Finger wrote: > Hi, > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.5 on my AcerNote 370pcx Laptop, everything works > fine.... but I can't "zzz" my laptop... if I try, the machine hangs up > completely without any "famous last words...." or something else... Well that certainly sounds like the kind of question we need to help you sort out. I'm not sure which list it should go to, but first, what's "zzz"? What exactly do you do to the machine, and how does it respond then? Can you give us some more details? > It takes no matter if I try it with or without the APM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK > workaround. > > Is there something else I could try? > > Reading the man-pages and looking around for HOW-TOs etc... wasn't > successfull /satisfying till now... > > I'm not sure if this question is right here (newbie enough or too > technical... // something else) so if I'm completely off-topic, please > give me a hint where I have to ask... Even if you're not a "newbie" you might be a newbie to the support mailing lists. In that case, it's definitely our job to give you a hand to get your question into shape. You might get a reply to this from freebsd-questions which is also for newbies. I don't know if they'd understand the question better than I do, but perhaps we can work that out first. > ...best regards from Berlin... Berlin eh? FreeBSD is everywhere! I'm in Australia. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14736 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14727 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01748; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:17:59 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323091756.58833@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:17:56 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Joey Garcia Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals References: <19980323082759.29465@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Joey Garcia on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:54:56PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:54:56PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Okay, I get your point...but I don't consider that actually jumping down > my throat. :) OK, then try my other post about formatting mail :-) > And I still consider myself to be a newbie, I've > only been using Unix on a daily basis for about 6 months now and > it's not really enough to say that I'm an experienced user. You're an experienced newbie then. And a quick learner by the sound of it. Some of us have been struggling newbies for years. > I have lot's to learn. Anyways, the thing is....I don't mind a newbie > writing amanual page or how-to so as long as the information is correct. > I'll be willing to write as much as I know about different topics. Or > maybe give ideas to knew users on where to find applications or help. I > do support the project, ya know. Know what I mean? Yeah, thanks :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:20:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15155 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [193.195.0.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA15069 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:19:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1000433; 22 Mar 98 22:13 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yGo6z-0001wV-00; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:00:41 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:00:39 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Beer drinking newbies around Cambridge U.K,? Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.orrg Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi All If there are any newbies (or older hacks lurking) around Cambridge (U.K.) and fancy a beer (or similar) lubricated chat drop me a line. Please don't reply to the -newbies list; strictly speaking this should go to -chat only. Duncan P.S. I'm not really a newbie, but I like to help! --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16058 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15997 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:25:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: from speedy.plstn1.sfba.home.com ([24.1.82.47]) by ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA23043; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:25:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980322142548.03656b34@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:25:48 -0800 To: Sue Blake , finger@mindless.com From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: How to shutdown the laptop... Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" In-Reply-To: <19980323091057.18139@welearn.com.au> References: <3515856C.B3FE9339@bln.de> <3515856C.B3FE9339@bln.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:10 AM 3/23/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:41:01PM +0100, Alexander Finger wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.5 on my AcerNote 370pcx Laptop, everything works >> fine.... but I can't "zzz" my laptop... if I try, the machine hangs up >> completely without any "famous last words...." or something else... > >Well that certainly sounds like the kind of question we need to help you >sort out. I'm not sure which list it should go to, but first, what's "zzz"? >What exactly do you do to the machine, and how does it respond then? >Can you give us some more details? zzz is the suspend command. Since you have a laptop, you should get PAO at www.jp.freebsd.org/PAO so you get better APM and PCMCIA support. >> I'm not sure if this question is right here (newbie enough or too >> technical... // something else) so if I'm completely off-topic, please >> give me a hint where I have to ask... This would be something for the freebsd-mobile mailing list. --Ludwig Pummer ludwigp@bigfoot.com ICQ UIN: 692441 http://chipweb.home.ml.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18996 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:44:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18984 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node34.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.34]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA09933; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:43:41 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323072038.00a3c5e0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:43:36 -0300 To: Sue Blake , Joey Garcia From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Arrghhhh ! It seems that I'll have to get used to reply to all, though I think that this double-posting (you're gonna receive my emai twice !) in unecessary and could be avoyded by a simple change in the rules of a list which is newborn. (I have to confess that I still use Eudora and Windows, but I have no choice). But this is not the subject. Let's go then. At 08:27 AM 3/23/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 12:55:20PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: >> Okay, from what I understand is that there are a bunch of newbies wanting >> to write manuals. Right? I just want to make sure if it's newbies >> wanting to write manuals, or newbies wanting advanced users to write >> manuals *for* newbies. Would be ridiculous for a newbie (assuming that >> the newbie doesn't know anything) to actually sit down and write a manual >> or something. I guess the point here is newbies writting their experiences and THEN having an advanced user to check it out. w/o that we won't have something of quality. FreeBSD today is quality, and I surely would like to see our work at one of the distribution CDs, or maybe (reminds me of a song: "Dreamer/Nothing but a dreamer...") sort of an on line installation help for non tech ppl, or at least, for non-Unix ppl. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 14:52:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20846 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:52:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20712 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:52:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-3-09.stic.net [207.71.50.101]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA14377 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:53:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:49:23 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "The Project" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, this list seems to be getting LOTS of traffic now. I got back from work today and had 42 messages, most from this list. Anyways, let me continue. I will take the initiative of getting the ball rolling on "The Project." First let me tell you all a little about me, and the ideas I have for this project. I am roughly a 3-4 year unix user. I've run just about every free (and some not free) unix clones out there. Throughout my experience linux has dominated my 486sx/33 :P. Now I have a small lan running both linux and freebsd (and maybe NT soon). I have organized and been editor in chief of a few online publications that never got noticed. I also was the original founder of I/O Magazine (some of you may have heard of it, its hosted by www.antionline.com and got roughly 2000+ readers per issue), until i had some disagreements about the content and and purpose of the publication and quit. I have always liked writing with the goal of educating those who were like me when I first started off. I know C and have done some unix application programming, I know some perl and am learning more, I can do html and cgi, and i have access to a dns server and web/ftp/shell hoster for hosting mailing lists, web pages, and virtually what ever I desire :P. However, I lack funds and help. Now for my ideas (sorry this is so long). Ok my feelings are that the freebsd manual and howto are nice, but not good enough. IMHO the freebsd documentation team should focus less on putting out multiple formats of a couple of documents and worry more about putting out lots of documents (linux does just fine with ascii and html alone) I have read the manual and howto and they are OK, but what I would like to do would widen the whole scope and cover things in more detail. I realize many of you are truely newbies and not really experienced with unix, etc but that is always the type of people I like to recruit because they know how to write for people like themselves. I will be responsible for organizing the effort. I think that we should split the workload into little pieces and cover lots of different topics. People who have certain interests (ie cryptography, coding, hardware, etc) should be responsible for writing howtos and tutorials on issue that stay within that scope. Anyways, these are just some of my ideas, im open to others and ready to get things started when other people are ready to put forth work. Like I have already written, I have web space, I have a dns server that can point domain names, i have the means to setup a list primarily for this project. It all depends on how many interested people I can actually get to work :P. I'll let all this sink in for a week and then start collecting names and organizing ideas, etc. Give me your feedback. Im usually on undernet in #hack, I'll be the handsome dark-eyed stranger wearing the nick 'Artificer'. BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:07:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22724 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22712 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node07.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.7]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA10633; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:06:13 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323080120.00a3a500@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:06:09 -0300 To: Sue Blake From: Capriotti Subject: Re: How to shutdown the laptop... Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, Sue ! He means that he wants to put the FreeBSD - and the HW, of course - in sleep mode. Hey, Alex: Did you enable the APS support on the kernel configuration ? before booting the system, where it says Boot: just type -c and enter. Next it you prompt you something else - sorry, don't remember what - and you will type visual. I suggest you take a look at detailed instructions on how to config. Does anyone have the correct address ? Anyway, a good hint would be Greg's site: http://www.lemis.com/ and, of course, www.freebsd.org find the FAQ section. I hope it helped somehow. At 09:10 AM 3/23/98 +1100, you wrote: >On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 10:41:01PM +0100, Alexander Finger wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.5 on my AcerNote 370pcx Laptop, everything works >> fine.... but I can't "zzz" my laptop... if I try, the machine hangs up >> completely without any "famous last words...." or something else... > >Well that certainly sounds like the kind of question we need to help you >sort out. I'm not sure which list it should go to, but first, what's "zzz"? >What exactly do you do to the machine, and how does it respond then? >Can you give us some more details? > >> It takes no matter if I try it with or without the APM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK >> workaround. >> >> Is there something else I could try? >> >> Reading the man-pages and looking around for HOW-TOs etc... wasn't >> successfull /satisfying till now... >> >> I'm not sure if this question is right here (newbie enough or too >> technical... // something else) so if I'm completely off-topic, please >> give me a hint where I have to ask... > >Even if you're not a "newbie" you might be a newbie to the support mailing >lists. In that case, it's definitely our job to give you a hand to get your >question into shape. > >You might get a reply to this from freebsd-questions which is also for >newbies. I don't know if they'd understand the question better than I do, >but perhaps we can work that out first. > >> ...best regards from Berlin... > >Berlin eh? FreeBSD is everywhere! I'm in Australia. > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:13:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23559 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23441 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: from speedy.plstn1.sfba.home.com ([24.1.82.47]) by ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA15116; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:10:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980322151053.0364f680@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:10:53 -0800 To: Capriotti , Sue Blake From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: How to shutdown the laptop... Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323080120.00a3a500@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:06 AM 3/23/98 -0300, Capriotti wrote: >Hey, Sue ! > > >He means that he wants to put the FreeBSD - and the HW, of course - in >sleep mode. > >Hey, Alex: Did you enable the APS support on the kernel configuration ? > >before booting the system, where it says Boot: > >just type -c > >and enter. > >Next it you prompt you something else - sorry, don't remember what - and >you will type visual. > >I suggest you take a look at detailed instructions on how to config. Does >anyone have the correct address ? Er, i thought it was just enabling the apm device followed by setting the proper line to YES in the rc.conf file. --Ludwig Pummer ludwigp@bigfoot.com ICQ UIN: 692441 http://chipweb.home.ml.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:16:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23854 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:16:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23820 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:15:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01919; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:15:31 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323101528.06846@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:15:28 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Projects, projects, projects! :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Whooee! Let's take stock here. So far we have: - a newbies mailing list - an IRC channel for newbies - a growing list of books and online documents that newbies like - some work in the spread of FreeBSD user groups - people who want to write independent documentation from a raw newbie perspecitve, by themselves, and hope to learn from it - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with the help of less experienced newbies - newbies who want to help work on the existing FreeBSD documentation or who are open to invitation to read through what the experts write Do we have enough enthusiastic volunteers to do all this? Have I left anything out? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:22:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24612 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24606 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:22:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01965; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:52 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323102147.64004@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:47 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Capriotti Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to shutdown the laptop... References: <3.0.32.19980323080120.00a3a500@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323080120.00a3a500@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:06:09AM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:06:09AM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > Hey, Sue ! > > > He means that he wants to put the FreeBSD - and the HW, of course - in > sleep mode. You mean there's really a command called zzz? How could there be! sue@phoenix$ man zzz Formatting page, please wait...Done. Argh... so there is. It wasn't there yesterday, I swear! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:34:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26389 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:34:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26379 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:34:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@dialA1e.aei.ca [206.123.6.50]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11430 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:34:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35159F05.D79CACBE@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:30:13 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Project E-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BJ Bell should be of great use ;-) Ok, I will do a page where people can subscribe to be devellopers of a new newbie kind of manual http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html Because I have seen a lot of people who want to help! So lets start the project for newbies #BSD-Newbies will be the channel on Undernet for us and for real time discution. OK? KapuT -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:34:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26622 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:34:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26616 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:34:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-3-09.stic.net [207.71.50.101]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA14461; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:35:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:31:46 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) In-Reply-To: <19980323101528.06846@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with > the help of less experienced newbies Okay, I'm guessing that is me :P. Lets try to be posative here sue :P your going to scare them away. Anyways, If i've learned anything it's about people -- they say a lot of nice things but most of the time it never gets done. I've gone after endless projects that have never gone through, so unless people are going to be serious about this I'm not going to waste my time. Anyways I dont really consider myself as advanced...I think im forever a newbie..there are always new things in the unix world to play with and I have a bad memory :P. Anyways its my belief that the existing documentation doesnt cut it, it shouldnt be re worked, it shouldnt be rewritten. The freebsd documentation project needs to be taken from a different approach. If I don't get feedback then I'll put the whole idea to bed. BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 15:59:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01933 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01919 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:59:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02045; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:59:22 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323105918.32951@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:59:18 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: BJ Bell Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) References: <19980323101528.06846@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from BJ Bell on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 05:31:46PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 05:31:46PM -0600, BJ Bell wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with > > the help of less experienced newbies > > Okay, I'm guessing that is me :P. Lets try to be posative here sue :P your > going to scare them away. Hey, it wasn't meant to be negative :-) We're overrun with great ideas and somebody's got to keep a list before we forget them. I thought your idea was well placed between two approaches that lean more strongly in different directions. Newbies who have greater technical skill are good to work with and you sound like a good organiser. The really new beginners, and the experts, each have different ways of doing things. Who works with who is up to them. You presented some good reasons for your project and you've obviously given it a lot of thought, so I see no reason why it shouldn't succeed. There's some other good ideas there too. Personally, I think everything on that list has merit and is worthy of supporting. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 16:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03361 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:14:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trojan.troyst.edu (trojan.troyst.edu [198.179.130.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03343 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:14:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjadcock@trojan.troyst.edu) Received: from [198.179.130.6] by trojan.troyst.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13110; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:12:22 -0600 Received: by bite-me with Microsoft Mail id <01BD55BE.50DAB6A0@bite-me>; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:14:12 -0600 Message-Id: <01BD55BE.50DAB6A0@bite-me> From: Matthew Adcock To: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: "The Project" Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:56:54 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA03349 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BJ, I've written newspaper columns (political and computer), videos, news for broadcast and print, and even a few technical manuals. I firmly believe we need to get this project off the ground. I've been using FreeBSD for about a month now and have encountered many problems with little or no documentation to help. What I've learned has been primarily by trial and error (and *many* hours of kernel recompiles). The web offers little help and Lehey's book is extremely incomplete. I think our first goal should be step-by-step instructions on how to do things basic to computer operation. For example: installing packages, setting up devices, and setting up Internet access. Your access to a server will be a great help. I don't think we should even consider hard copy. The only way to stay current is by publishing electronically. Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 16:24:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05383 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:24:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05371 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:24:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02148; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:24:08 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323112405.21190@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:24:05 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Matthew Adcock Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: "The Project" References: <01BD55BE.50DAB6A0@bite-me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD55BE.50DAB6A0@bite-me>; from Matthew Adcock on Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 05:56:54PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry I can't quote your mail, the long lines don't fit in my editor. You mentioned getting no help. Did you ask freebsd-questions for help? If so I'd be interested to know how you think it could be improved. You also said Lehey's book is incomplete. Maybe you're using the first edition? If there's anything missing from the second edition, I've never heard of it and perhaps I should find out. Almost everything I know I learned from there, so I could be in trouble :-) Oh, sorry, it doesn't cover news. Anything else? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 16:34:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07192 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07146; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199803230033.QAA07146@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals In-Reply-To: <19980323082759.29465@welearn.com.au> from Sue Blake at "Mar 23, 98 08:27:59 am" To: sue@welearn.com.au (Sue Blake) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:33:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: bear@pacificnet.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 12:55:20PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > Okay, from what I understand is that there are a bunch of newbies wanting > > to write manuals. Right? I just want to make sure if it's newbies > > wanting to write manuals, or newbies wanting advanced users to write > > manuals *for* newbies. Would be ridiculous for a newbie (assuming that > > the newbie doesn't know anything) to actually sit down and write a manual > > or something. > > Apparently you're not a newbie. Please don't come into our space and then > tell us that what we want to do is ridiculous. Maybe you accidentally chose > the wrong word there :-) i have been using FreeBSD and its predecessor 386/BSD for about eight years now. i could write a manual....i can write one that would help newbies as much as newbies can.....i no longer remember the things that drove me crazy....the things that iddnt make sense at the time. only newbeis can write that information.....an they need to do it right after the learn the answer. while the newness of it and hte suprise opf hte answer is still fresh. ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 16:41:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08686 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08674 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02250; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:40:44 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980323114040.29498@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:40:40 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Blooper of the week Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Forwarded message from Mail Delivery Subsystem ----- For some reason just now my computer suddenly stopped responding to commands. Nothing I tried would work, until I killed my mail app. What a mess! After sticking it all back together I've got four copies of nearly everything, I don't know which emails I've replied to let alone which I had read or deleted. And you know what the problem was? I had the caps lock on and didn't notice. Now if you'll excuse me I'll go crawl under this nice big rock :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more -----End of forwarded message----- PS, I had to resend this because I'd left out "@freebsd.org". Grrr... I hope this level of expertise isn't habit-forming! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 17:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14454 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:19:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14445 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-28.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.125]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02838; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:17:38 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:17:45 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals In-Reply-To: <19980323091756.58833@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 01:54:56PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > You're an experienced newbie then. And a quick learner by the sound of it. > Some of us have been struggling newbies for years. Quick learner? heh, I take that as a complement....sometimes I think I'm an idiot...but then again that's when I compare myself to someone with alot more experience > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > Bear To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 17:34:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15640 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15634 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@dialA1e.aei.ca [206.123.6.50]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27158 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:34:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3515BB1A.F00CDD9A@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:30:02 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have finaly finish what I was explaining to you and that no one understand: my function. ;-)))))))))) http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/develop.html You will see of what I was talking about fast devellopment in community Simply with a browser and Sue was saying to me: "Does it need cookie?" No :-) Cya KapuT -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 17:34:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15754 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:34:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15749 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-28.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.125]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA05289; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:32:58 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:33:05 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) In-Reply-To: <19980323101528.06846@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > Whooee! Let's take stock here. So far we have: > > - a newbies mailing list > - an IRC channel for newbies > - a growing list of books and online documents that newbies like > - some work in the spread of FreeBSD user groups > - people who want to write independent documentation from a raw newbie > perspecitve, by themselves, and hope to learn from it > - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with > the help of less experienced newbies > - newbies who want to help work on the existing FreeBSD documentation > or who are open to invitation to read through what the experts write > > Do we have enough enthusiastic volunteers to do all this? > Have I left anything out? Yeah....you forgot PROMOTING FreeBSD. :) Promotion would be the key issue for letting more people know that FreeBSD exists. For letting Corporations know that FreeBSD exists. etc etc. Bear > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 17:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16316 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16311 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-28.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.125]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA05599; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:35:05 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:35:11 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: BJ Bell cc: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, BJ Bell wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with > > the help of less experienced newbies > > Okay, I'm guessing that is me :P. Lets try to be posative here sue :P your > going to scare them away. Anyways, If i've learned anything it's about > people -- they say a lot of nice things but most of the time it never gets > done. I've gone after endless projects that have never gone through, so > unless people are going to be serious about this I'm not going to waste my > time. Anyways I dont really consider myself as advanced...I think im > forever a newbie..there are always new things in the unix world to play > with and I have a bad memory :P. Anyways its my belief that the existing > documentation doesnt cut it, it shouldnt be re worked, it shouldnt be > rewritten. The freebsd documentation project needs to be taken from a > different approach. If I don't get feedback then I'll put the whole idea > to bed. > > BJ > I support the project. :) bear > ---- > > No Compromise (No Regrets) > > BJ Bell (aka Artificer) > brian@centrisys.com > > ---- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 19:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04645 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:35:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04628 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id NAA22646; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:35:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma022626; Mon, 23 Mar 98 13:35:21 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA26685 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:35:19 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA231484119; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:35:19 +1100 Message-Id: <3515D877.4012955F@scitec.com.au> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:35:19 +1100 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re-installing the boot manager Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I had FreeBSD 2.2.5 installed on a notebook and went and installed Win95 on another partition. However in typical style Win95 wiped the boot menu. Now I know how to get back the standard FreeBSD bootblock using "disklabel -B", but how do I get back the bootmenu that allows me to select which OS to boot with a function key? Thanks. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 19:37:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05452 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:37:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05413 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:37:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (kaput@dialA3f.aei.ca [206.123.6.83]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12894 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3515D809.658E7D65@whoever.com> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:33:30 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: FreeBSD Documentation Project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I suggest to read the page for the FreeBSD Documentation Project, http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html KapuT -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 22 22:14:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03988 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:14:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.x-link.ml.org (ns2.x-link.ml.org [163.195.1.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03977 for ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgreven@erm1.mpu.gov.za) From: sgreven@erm1.mpu.gov.za Received: from mpues.x-link.ml.org (mpues.x-link.ml.org [163.195.44.11]) by ns2.x-link.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10897 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:08:34 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from sgreven@erm1.mpu.gov.za) Received: from thor.mpu.gov.za (thor.mpu.gov.za [172.22.62.91]) by mpues.x-link.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11828 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:12:35 +0200 (SAT) Received: from cyborg.mpu.gov.za (cyber95 [172.22.62.94]) by thor.mpu.gov.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA27308 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:15:44 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199803230615.IAA27308@thor.mpu.gov.za> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:05:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Re-installing the boot manager In-reply-to: <3515D877.4012955F@scitec.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I had FreeBSD 2.2.5 installed on a notebook and went and installed > Win95 on another partition. However in typical style Win95 wiped > the boot menu. Now I know how to get back the standard FreeBSD > bootblock using "disklabel -B", but how do I get back the bootmenu > that allows me to select which OS to boot with a function key? > After doing much the same thing, (and spending weeks trying to fix it ..... and eventually re-installing, :) ... I found that the answer to this question lies in the FAQ on www.freebsd.org . it requires a re-install of the bootmanager only. in the FreeBSD installation tree, you will find a file called /pub/FreeBSD/???-RELEASE/tools/bootinst.exe , just run that on your DOS partition, and get backk your boot manager, ..that is assuming you are using the standard boot manager :) Regards Sean Sean Greven Principle Data Technologist Mpumalanga Provincial Government 082 893 5573 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 03:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23776 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23762 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node14.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.14]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA21525; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:05:42 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323200225.00941650@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:05:07 -0300 To: BJ Bell From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:31 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > >> - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with >> the help of less experienced newbies > >with and I have a bad memory :P. Anyways its my belief that the existing >documentation doesnt cut it, it shouldnt be re worked, it shouldnt be >rewritten. The freebsd documentation project needs to be taken from a >different approach. If I don't get feedback then I'll put the whole idea >to bed. > Count on me, but I insist on having advanced users supervising the project, and also having the project to be considered official by the FreeBSD team. Opinions ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 03:06:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23820 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:06:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23763 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node14.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.14]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA21530; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:05:44 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980323200341.0094be50@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:05:09 -0300 To: KapuT From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Project Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ehhhhhhhhhh... What stops me from deleting all the contents of the page, or changing the contesnts, so that ppl follow croocked instructions ? At 08:30 PM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have finaly finish what I was explaining to you and that no one >understand: my function. ;-)))))))))) > >http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/develop.html > >You will see of what I was talking about fast devellopment in community > >Simply with a browser and Sue was saying to me: "Does it need cookie?" >No :-) > >Cya > >KapuT > >-- >*************************** >kaput@whoever.com >www.aei.ca/~malartre/ >ICQ #4224434 >IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid >Undernet #FreeBSD >Windows95 >Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 >*************************** > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 04:31:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06441 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA06436 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 04:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaput@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (pm01-17.aei.ca [206.123.6.117]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21180; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:31:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35165534.F625554C@whoever.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:27:32 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Capriotti CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Project References: <3.0.32.19980323200341.0094be50@pop.mpc.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Capriotti wrote: > Ehhhhhhhhhh... What stops me from deleting all the contents of the page, or > changing the contesnts, so that ppl follow croocked instructions ? > Mehehehe You send the new data to me. Then I check what you have changed and I put the new data in. And I will construct another for development where you will write what you want to add. When you press Send/Post button, it e-mail me the new data. And read the Instruction, for a more easy (I dont want to search what you have changed) you put the tag "###" in front of the sentence you have changed. Try to correct something, you will see. And like I'va said, I will put another for development, where you will be abble to send me new data. And *sorry*, but yesterday, it was in 1024X768, sorry. Today, I have changed it for 800X600 :-) http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/develop.html or, if I change the architecture http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/errata.html try it, I think its the easiest way to change something fast. > At 08:30 PM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I have finaly finish what I was explaining to you and that no one > >understand: my function. ;-)))))))))) > > > >http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/develop.html > > > >You will see of what I was talking about fast devellopment in community > > > >Simply with a browser and Sue was saying to me: "Does it need cookie?" > >No :-) > > > >Cya > > > >KapuT > > > >-- KapuT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 07:54:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07305 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07282 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:53:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf80.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.80]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06868 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:54:01 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:02:07 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: root To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun 22 Mar, Sean Harding wrote: > On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > [about being root] [about the pros and cons] Under Windows/Netware, you can't just "su" to root. You must shut-down you computer first, that's why at the company I worked, everybody who knew the admin-password logged in as admin. Simple. Excluding me, 'cause I was/am used to be careful with the root-account. But as we were sharing some PCs, the others got annoyed by the fact, that they weren't able to sit at the PC and start 'rconsole' or so, as I always logged out and logged in as myself. Under Unix, you just open another x-term and su to root. After that, you can log-out and everything is fine. But Windows has never been desgined as a multi-user system, so there will always be problems. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 07:54:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07390 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07362 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf80.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.80]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06864; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:53:58 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:12:28 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Organizational issue for this list To: Capriotti cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323042732.00ad1900@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 23 Mar, Capriotti wrote: > Ok, ppl: I have a suggestion to our - and possibly all other - list: > > It's out of our hands, so I belive it needs to be voted, aproved and then > submited to the responsible for majordomo. > > Whe I am writting to a list, and receiving email from a list, all the > replies that I write - as far as I concern - should go to the list. It > seems to be common sense to me. But things like what happened - I have sent > a reply to Sue, instead of to the list - can cause us some wanste of time > in the best case. Sometimes, I think that my answer is so off-topic (or 'unproductive) that I hesitate to CC to the list. > I would like to suggest that the "reply-to" field was changed to contain > "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG", instead of keeping the original sender's > address. The actual sender could be identified by another field like > "X-Author" or something like that. OK. > a good tag for our group could be [FBSD-newbie]. Yes !!!! That's a very good idea, I like it. Where do I vote ? cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 09:44:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25935 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25887 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA04808; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:43:16 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980324044313.48618@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:43:13 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Capriotti Cc: BJ Bell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Projects, projects, projects! :-) References: <3.0.32.19980323200225.00941650@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323200225.00941650@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:05:07PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:05:07PM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > At 05:31 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote: > >On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > >> - more advanced people who want to write independent documentation with > >> the help of less experienced newbies > > > >with and I have a bad memory :P. Anyways its my belief that the existing > >documentation doesnt cut it, it shouldnt be re worked, it shouldnt be > >rewritten. The freebsd documentation project needs to be taken from a > >different approach. If I don't get feedback then I'll put the whole idea > >to bed. > > > Count on me, but I insist on having advanced users supervising the project, Personally, I'd go along with you there for some of our projects but not for others. It depends on the objectives, and we've got quite a range of them. > and also having the project to be considered official by the FreeBSD team. Generally that would be my preference, but I don't expect others to have that as a priority. To gain any team's support you have to work with that team, not against it. That shouldn't preclude separate teams, it just gives a range of options, each with different costs and benefits. > Opinions ? Yes, more please! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 10:08:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29595 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29587 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-7-46.stic.net [207.71.51.92]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA16397 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:09:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:05:02 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: being root Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, here are my thoughts and experiences with loggin in as root: First of all, I never login as root I always su root, in face I dont even allow root logins anywhere, event he console on any of my machines. You just have to remember that root has full access to everything, if you cd to /tmp/junk and rm -rf * thats ok sure, but what if you make a mistake (humans are quite prone to making mistakes) and end up removing a tree you need, etc. Normal tasks should not be done as root, there is no reason for it. People who try to irc as root usually are not allowed on most servers (unet ones, at least it use to be that way) because many ppl have auto dcc accept, /dcc send Artificer /etc/passwd would leave you with regrets. I have screwed up my machine(s) more then once because I was using root when I shouldnt have. A lot of it is common sense, Id like to think that I have some, but I make stupid mistakes all the time. Also I want even talk about sessions being hijacked, permission settings for new created files, and the many, many more things that come from using root when you don't need to. I su as root rarely..just to dialup to the internet, install software, and check logs ocasionally, anything else should be done with normal users IMHO, even just compiling a program that you will later install as root. If your a newbie its good to form good habits and not feel opressed like everyone is trying to prevent you from doing what you want on your own computer :P. You'll realize the writers dont care if you screw something up, they dont have to spend hours fixing it..YOU do. Take their advice. :P BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 10:15:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00841 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00836 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:15:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA11297 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011295; Mon Mar 23 10:07:03 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10840 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:03 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803231807.KAA10840@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: root Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:38:50 +1100 >From: Sue Blake >So I wasn't convinced but eventually I did it the right way and didn't log >in as root unless it was necessary. Now I'm pretty used to the idea and even >like it, but I've always wondered, do other people find it so hard to get >used to working with that restriction? Not me.... (I'm "new" to FreeBSD, but have been using UNIX since '86, and various multi-user systems before that -- was an MVS (IBM mainframe) systems programmer for 12 years. Have been playing with computers since '69.) Indeed; I've told at least one person at a previous place of employment that if any non-technical folks had root access to the UNIX systems, they could find someone else to maintain them, 'cause I wouldn't do it: it's a matter of OS integrity -- if clueless folks go around breaking things, I'm not going to walk around behind them trying to clean up their messes for them. Granted, I'm in a different sort of environment than a "home hacker" -- I am a (professional) systems administrator, working in an environment where certain machines need to be reliably up & running all time (to the extent possible). If someone wants to trash his desktop, that's one thing -- I don't care so much. If that machine is actually being used as a server -- so that someone else's work depends on it -- that's a very different issue, and that "server" part of the workload is an excellent candidate to get migrated to a (more) "protected" machine, probably in a locked server room. BTW: the whole notion that whoever is fondling the keyboard at the moment has absolute control over the machine -- even to the point of not really being able to make a distinction between "user" level vs. "system" level processes -- is one of the reasons I heartily mistrust anything from M$. Techniques for better approaches were very well known when they came out with MS-DOS -- UNIX was, after all, running in the early 70s, and was multi-user from the beginning. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 10:21:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02048 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02040 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA11465 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011463; Mon Mar 23 10:21:11 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10919 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803231821.KAA10919@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: being root Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:05:02 -0600 (CST) >From: BJ Bell > First of all, I never login as root I always su root... Even better: * Don't use "su", use "sudo". (And track what gets done as root and by whom, as well as when.) * When you do change a file that you might care about, use RCS to track the changes. Neat thing here is that even if you use "su" or "sudo", RCS can track by your login ID... and you can use RCS tools to review histories of changes. Examples of files that are good for this -- just about anything in /etc; also a custom kernel config file (in /sys/i386/conf). (My bias as a sysadmin may be showing, here....:-) Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 10:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03940 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03932 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:32:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA04960; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:32:08 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980324053203.12151@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:32:03 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: being root References: <199803231821.KAA10919@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803231821.KAA10919@pau-amma.whistle.com>; from David Wolfskill on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 10:21:11AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 10:21:11AM -0800, David Wolfskill wrote: > * Don't use "su", use "sudo". (And track what gets done as root and by > whom, as well as when.) > > * When you do change a file that you might care about, use RCS to track > the changes. Neat thing here is that even if you use "su" or "sudo", > RCS can track by your login ID... and you can use RCS tools to review > histories of changes. Eh? What's this RCS business? What do you mean "track the changes"? Is there a good way to start learning about it without getting early onset brain-burn? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 10:51:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07773 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:51:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07700 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA11899 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011897; Mon Mar 23 10:50:23 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11227 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803231850.KAA11227@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: being root Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:32:03 +1100 >From: Sue Blake >Eh? What's this RCS business? pau-amma[2]% apropos rcs | grep RCS ci(1) - check in RCS revisions co(1) - check out RCS revisions ident(1) - identify RCS keyword strings in files rcs(1) - change RCS file attributes rcsdiff(1) - compare RCS revisions rcsfile(5) - format of RCS file rcsfreeze(1) - freeze a configuration of sources checked in under RCS rcsintro(1) - introduction to RCS commands rcsmerge(1) - merge RCS revisions rlog(1) - print log messages and other information about RCS files pau-amma[3]% RCS ("Revision Control System", written by Walt Tichy) is a freely-redistributable (and comes as part of FreeBSD) set of programs for keeping track of changes to files. It was intended, as I recall, to be used for tracking changes to sources for programs... but that doesn't mean that it's limited to that! >What do you mean "track the changes"? Well, I mean keeping a log of what changes ocurred, when by whom, and (ideally) for what reason. Here's an example: pau-amma[3]% rlog /etc/rc.conf RCS file: /etc/RCS/rc.conf,v Working file: /etc/rc.conf head: 1.4 branch: locks: strict access list: symbolic names: keyword substitution: kv total revisions: 4; selected revisions: 4 description: Config file, as system was running on 10 March, 1998. ---------------------------- revision 1.4 date: 1998-03-12 10:46:43-08; author: dhw; state: Exp; lines: +2 -2 Enabled lpd. ---------------------------- revision 1.3 date: 1998-03-11 07:11:09-08; author: dhw; state: Exp; lines: +2 -2 Forgot to remove the extraneous "p" in the amd_flags. ---------------------------- revision 1.2 date: 1998-03-10 17:18:20-08; author: dhw; state: Exp; lines: +3 -6 Changes to use NIS amd maps. ---------------------------- revision 1.1 date: 1998-03-10 17:17:58-08; author: dhw; state: Exp; Initial revision ---------------------------- ============================================================================= pau-amma[4]% >Is there a good way to start learning about it without getting early onset >brain-burn? Well... :-) No guarantees re: brain-burn... :-) However, of the man pages referenced above, the critical commands for the vast bulk of RCS use in my experience are ci, co, rlog, rcsdiff, and (to a lesser extent) rcs. The rcsintro man page would undoubtedly be useful. Also: The Jeffreys had an article in SunExpert around July or so of last year about using RCS, and there's an O'Reilly book: Bolinger, Don & Bronson, Tan: _Applying RCS and SCCS_, August, 1995 (ISBN 1-56592-117-8). One of the other nice things that using RCS religiously does is provide a way to cleanly un-do changes that turn out to have been ill-advised. The FreeBSD project uses CVS ("Cocurrent Versioning System", by Brian Berliner) to track the changes made to FreeBSD... and CVS is built on top of RCS. However, for a single installation, I suspect that CVS is a bit of overkill.... Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 11:15:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13280 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:15:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pebbles.cs.nyu.edu (PEBBLES.CS.NYU.EDU [128.122.20.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13100 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from prvcy142@pebbles.cs.nyu.edu) Received: from localhost by pebbles.cs.nyu.edu (SMI-8.6/1.20) id OAA08263; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:12:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:12:04 -0500 (EST) From: Privacy Class Account To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: fortune In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know if there is a central development group for fortune that takes submissions of quotes? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 13:59:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21065 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:59:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spot.zyx.net (root@spot.zyx.net [204.250.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21057 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@zyx.net) Received: from slimy (slimy.dtint.com [198.252.209.106]) by spot.zyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA29082 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:03:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803232203.PAA29082@spot.zyx.net> X-Sender: brian@spot.zyx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:03:41 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brian Shellabarger Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD p.237 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:08 PM 3/20/98 , Richard Broza said: >me found a bug or typo in the book The Complete FreeBSD on p.237 >it states: > > You'll find all the files described in this chapter on the first CD-ROM >( Installation CD-ROM ) in the directory /book.. > >just checked the first CD.. there is NO directory called /book on the >first CD.. I've found *several* such errors in the book -- Fortunately, I've got enough experience with FreeBSD to recognize most of the "dumb" mistakes that are printed, but I feel sorry for a beginner who may try to follow an example right out of the book, only to find that they can't get it to work. I've had to deal with second-guessing a manual before, I can't tell you how many countless hours (and aspirin) were wasted until I finally realized that the book I was trying so hard to learn from had subtle typo's in many of the examples. Anybody know who we can report such mistakes to? (I guess it doesn't do much good at this point since the book is already in print, but I'm assuming there will be other revisions). Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 16:08:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19556 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:08:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19528 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:08:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19865; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:38:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA14771; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:38:02 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980324103802.22923@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:38:02 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brian Shellabarger Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD p.237 References: <199803232203.PAA29082@spot.zyx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803232203.PAA29082@spot.zyx.net>; from Brian Shellabarger on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 03:03:41PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 March 1998 at 15:03:41 -0700, Brian Shellabarger wrote: > At 03:08 PM 3/20/98 , Richard Broza said: >> me found a bug or typo in the book The Complete FreeBSD on p.237 >> it states: >> >> You'll find all the files described in this chapter on the first CD-ROM >> ( Installation CD-ROM ) in the directory /book.. >> >> just checked the first CD.. there is NO directory called /book on the >> first CD.. > > I've found *several* such errors in the book -- Fortunately, I've got > enough experience with FreeBSD to recognize most of the "dumb" mistakes > that are printed, but I feel sorry for a beginner who may try to follow an > example right out of the book, only to find that they can't get it to work. Maybe the beginners would start at the beginning. On page ii, they would then read: Important notice A list of errata and addenda is available for this book on the first CD-ROM in the file /book/errata. The most up-to-date list is on ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/cfbsd/errata-2. Please check these lists before reporting problems. The background to this was that the book was published after the 2.2.5 CD-ROM, and we didn't want to stick to the location that had (accidentally) been chosen on the 2.2.5 CD-ROM because it was inconvenient. I won't repeat the errata and addenda here; there are about 10 pages, and if you have the book, you should download them yourself. > I've had to deal with second-guessing a manual before, I can't tell you how > many countless hours (and aspirin) were wasted until I finally realized > that the book I was trying so hard to learn from had subtle typo's in many > of the examples. > > Anybody know who we can report such mistakes to? (I guess it doesn't do > much good at this point since the book is already in print, but I'm > assuming there will be other revisions). Send them to me. I'll add a note on page ii. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 16:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23118 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23113 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA16086 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016082; Mon Mar 23 16:28:40 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12892 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:28:40 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803240028.QAA12892@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX book recommendations Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I didn't get around to replying earlier -- I plead the press of work. :-} Anyway, I didn't see it mentioned in other responses (though I might have overlooked something).... One of the books I strongly recommend for anyone to get a "feel" for how things are done in UNIX environments is by Brian Kernighan [the guy credited/blamed for the named "UNIX", and the "Kernighan" of "Kernighan and Ritchie"] and Rob Pike [whose contributions to UNIX are perhaps less well known...], was published by Prentice-Hall, and is called _The UNIX Programming Environment_. It, like most of the UNIX-oriented books from the Bell Labs folks is rather concise. However, it starts fairly straightforwardly -- leading the reader in an exercise of sending email to herself -- and going on from there. As may be inferred from the title, the perspective is that of someone who wants to accomplish some sort of programming with a UNIX system... though the term "programming" may be rather loosely defined (as the authors show). I've purchased at least 3 copies so far -- I keep loaning them to folks, and the books don't come back. :-( However, it's definitely a classic, and I heartily recommend it (in spite of an AT&T bias and, by current perspectives, a bit of age: I first read it back in 1985 -- and it's pretty weak in terms of modern networking, which isn't at all a surprise, given when it was written). Another print resource is reprints of some of the Bell System Technical Journals. Not sure where you get those nowadays.... :-( Lastly: Do not be afraid of books geared toward system administrators. If you're running FreeBSD, I strongly suspect that a bit of inclination in that direction will do you good. And on that note, I'll plug USENIX (http://www.usenix.org/), and the System Administrator's Guild (SAGE -- part of USENIX). Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 17:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00577 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rhenium (cerium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00527 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:07:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shesha@btinternet.com) Received: from system965 [195.99.52.30] by rhenium with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yHIBb-0002Uz-00; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <003801bd56c1$6972f3e0$1b2f63c3@system965> Reply-To: "Nawaf Razak" From: "Nawaf Razak" To: Subject: Desktop setup hints Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:07:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BD56C1.41111F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BD56C1.41111F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmm cant say I found much on the setup process for the x desktop. For example lets say I have a background image i like located in the = folder /junk now I want this image to be ehh the background image for my = desktop everytime I run startx.. where do I go one about it ..? the .xinitrc ??? Okay if it then how ? wonder if there are any documents on that topic or = not.. cant say that the book version is very helpful. Thanx for your time. Best Regards shesha "Politicians should be allocated with PIDS kill them when u find no use = to them" ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BD56C1.41111F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hmmm cant say I found much on the = setup process=20 for the x desktop.
 
For example lets say I have a = background image i=20 like located in the folder /junk now I want this image to be ehh the = background=20 image for my desktop everytime I run startx.. where do I go one about it = ..?
 
the .xinitrc ???
 
Okay if it then how ? wonder if = there are any=20 documents on that topic or not.. cant say that the book version is very=20 helpful.
 
Thanx for your time.
 
Best Regards
 
shesha
 
"Politicians should be allocated with PIDS kill = them when=20 u find no use to them"
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BD56C1.41111F80-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 17:12:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01510 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:12:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from miro.bestweb.net (miro.bestweb.net [209.94.100.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01417 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from prw@bestweb.net) Received: from turner.bestweb.net (turner.bestweb.net [209.94.100.33]) by miro.bestweb.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11478 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:05:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <039001bd56c1$77184cc0$21645ed1@turner.bestweb.net> From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: Desktop setup hints Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:09:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It all depends on what you use for your Window Manager. If you're using something like fvwm, you really should take a look at http://www.kde.org, it's the best window manager I've found and you can switch backgrounds easily. Paul. -----Original Message----- From: Nawaf Razak To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 8:03 PM Subject: Desktop setup hints Hmmm cant say I found much on the setup process for the x desktop. For example lets say I have a background image i like located in the folder /junk now I want this image to be ehh the background image for my desktop everytime I run startx.. where do I go one about it ..? the .xinitrc ??? Okay if it then how ? wonder if there are any documents on that topic or not.. cant say that the book version is very helpful. Thanx for your time. Best Regards shesha "Politicians should be allocated with PIDS kill them when u find no use to them" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 18:07:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10389 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10369 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:07:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA00607; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:06:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:06:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Capriotti cc: Sue Blake , Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies writing manuals In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980323072038.00a3c5e0@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Arrghhhh ! It seems that I'll have to get used to reply to all, though I > think that this double-posting (you're gonna receive my emai twice !) in > unecessary and could be avoyded by a simple change in the rules of a list > which is newborn. (I have to confess that I still use Eudora and Windows, > but I have no choice). A lot of us filter mail using procmail. The mail on -newbies goes into one folder for me, and -questions goes into another, -hackers in yet another, and so on for all the lists I'm on. The way I do this, is that one of the headers in the mail lists the actual sender of this message. All the messages which are on the list are actually sent to me by owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org. So, anything from owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org goes into my f-newbies folder. But, if I'm in the To: or CC: lines, than it comes as being from you, not owner-blah. So it goes into my inbox. The upshot of all this is, if it's to or carbon'ed to me as well as being on the list, I DO get it twice, but once is buried in my list mailbox, while once is in my inbox, so it gets noticed quicker, and it's easier to notice that it's to me. This becomes a REAL issue with over a thousand messages a day, from many many sources; I don't have near enough time to actually READ everything, just the ones with subjects that seem relevant. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 18:10:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11136 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:10:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mortis.futuresouth.com ([209.45.209.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11055; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by mortis.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10179; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:13:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:13:53 -0600 (CST) From: Matthew Fuller X-Sender: fullermd@mortis To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Call for review: installation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've redone the installation documentation, from scratch basically. It consists now of two parts: the installation instructions, which guide you through the installation from your decision to run FreeBSD, and the installation checklist, which details the things you need and how to prepare for the installation. I'd like to get some reviewers on this. I've CC:'d newbies since there's probably a fair number of people there fresh from the install who could give some unique viewpoints on it. The instructions are at: http://mortis.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/install.html They're pretty rough at the moment, as I haven't had time to polish them up with the press of other work. But I think they're pretty thorough. Let me know what you think! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 19:24:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22599 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.globecomm.net (ren.globecomm.net [207.51.48.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22590 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:24:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from etanisla@whoever.com) Received: from whoever.com (206-18-113-140.la.inreach.net [206.18.113.140]) by ren.globecomm.net (8.8.8/8.8.0) with ESMTP id WAA18011 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:24:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35172672.8241FDE9@whoever.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:20:18 -0800 From: Etanisla Lopez-Ortiz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Q's about mouse configuration... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have just a few enigmas... I have a (microsoft-type 2-button) mouse on sio0...moused claims the device is not configured...and XF86Setup doesn't see it either. When I installed 2.2.5-RELEASE (thanks Walnut Creek!) I followed all prompts as suggested by the book (The Complete FreeBSD). Any suggestions? Thanks, Etanisla I. Lopez-Ortiz Etanisla@whoever.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 19:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28462 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kevin.isadora.org (25.209.17.178.arpa.broadband.net [209.17.178.25] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28062 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:52:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.isadora.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA00638; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:49:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cagey@kevin.isadora.org) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:48:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin G. Eliuk" Reply-To: "Kevin G. Eliuk" To: Nawaf Razak cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Desktop setup hints In-Reply-To: <003801bd56c1$6972f3e0$1b2f63c3@system965> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Nawaf Razak wrote: Oh my what long lines you have. => Hmmm cant say I found much on the setup process for the x desktop. => => For example lets say I have a background image i like located in => the folder /junk now I want this image to be ehh the background => image for my desktop everytime I run startx.. where do I go one => about it ..? => => the .xinitrc ??? I fumbled with this for quite some time until fvwm95, which came with a really complete sample rc file. And as for wallpaper, compile and install from ports /usr/ports/x11/xview. # xloadimage -help => "Politicians should be allocated with PIDS kill them when u find => no use to them" Kill -URG Bill :) -- Regards and Best Wishes, | Way too many Bill-Boards on Kevin G. Eliuk | the information highway. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 19:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00163 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29798 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:58:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id NAA04242; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:58:30 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma004229; Tue, 24 Mar 98 13:58:11 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA07215; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:58:02 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA133191881; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:58:01 +1100 Message-Id: <35172F4A.D2F54177@scitec.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:58:02 +1100 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Etanisla Lopez-Ortiz , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Q's about mouse configuration... References: <35172672.8241FDE9@whoever.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Etanisla Lopez-Ortiz wrote: > I have a (microsoft-type 2-button) mouse on sio0...moused claims the > device is not configured...and XF86Setup doesn't see it either. When I > installed 2.2.5-RELEASE (thanks Walnut Creek!) I followed all prompts as > suggested by the book (The Complete FreeBSD). OK, try the following... In /dev make a link called mouse to the correct serial device. The sio0 device uses the /dev/cuaa0 file name. # ln -f -s cuaa0 /dev/mouse Edit /etc/rc.conf and search for the moused lines. Set the type to Microsoft and set the device to /dev/mouse. You don't need to add any special options so leave that entry blank. Some 3 button mouses need either the -D or -R option to operate in 3 button mode. Edit /etc/XF86Config and search for the mouse section. Set the mouse device to be /dev/sysmouse and set the type to be MouseSystems. When you run moused the mouse cannot be shared with X. So moused simulates a mousesystems mouse running /dev/sysmouse for X to use. Cheers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 20:21:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05682 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:21:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from neodymium (neodymium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA05518 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shesha@btinternet.com) Received: from system965 [195.99.53.159] by neodymium with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yHLCL-0006RD-00; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:20:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000901bd56dc$59b01df0$9f3563c3@system965> Reply-To: "Nawaf Razak" From: "Nawaf Razak" To: Subject: Squid will that be fried ? Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:21:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD56DC.58A76080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD56DC.58A76080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmm now for some reason am getting an error or message coming as Squid. = Only happens every few minutes sometimes stops and picksup then = sometimes does not showup. Squid do not run Squid under root! reset the Cache_effective_user ehh few minutes ago this was not there now it appears. Thought it could = be some program running checked the PID not there any ideas whats it = related to.? cheers=20 shesha Data just been recently upgraded to Win95 Captain Picard "Data repot damage status now!" Data "But sir am out of memory resource" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD56DC.58A76080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmm now for some reason am getting = an error or=20 message coming as Squid. Only happens every few minutes sometimes stops = and=20 picksup then sometimes does not showup.
 
Squid do not run Squid under = root!
reset the = Cache_effective_user
 
ehh few minutes ago this was not = there now it=20 appears. Thought it could be some program running checked the PID not = there any=20 ideas whats it related to.?
 
cheers
 
shesha
 
Data just been recently upgraded to=20 Win95
Captain Picard "Data repot damage status=20 now!"
Data "But sir am out of memory=20 resource"
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD56DC.58A76080-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 23 21:00:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12123 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:00:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11941 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:00:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA06961; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:00:05 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980324160001.21911@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:00:02 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Nawaf Razak Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Squid will that be fried ? References: <000901bd56dc$59b01df0$9f3563c3@system965> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <000901bd56dc$59b01df0$9f3563c3@system965>; from Nawaf Razak on Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 04:21:41AM -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was going to write you a little note explaining that questions like this need to be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org because the newbies list is only for discussion about being learners. But I had a problem. I couldn't quote your text because the lines don't wrap. Can you organise your software so that it limits each line to about 70 to 75 characters long? That'll make it a lot easier for others to help you. Feel free to come back and ask here if you need help with your email. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 02:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02945 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:05:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02921 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA01199; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:34:03 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:34:03 GMT Message-Id: <199803240934.JAA01199@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Nawaf Razak" Cc: Subject: Desktop setup hints In-Reply-To: <003801bd56c1$6972f3e0$1b2f63c3@system965> References: <003801bd56c1$6972f3e0$1b2f63c3@system965> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Disposition-notification-to: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nawaf > Hmmm cant say I found much on the setup process for the x desktop. > > For example lets say I have a background image i like located in the folder /junk now I want this image to be ehh the background image for my desktop everytime I run startx.. where do I go one about it ..? > > the .xinitrc ??? > > Okay if it then how ? wonder if there are any documents on that topic or not.. cant say that the book version is very helpful. > I use xv from my .xinitrc file: xv -root -max -rmode 5 -quit ~ruth/pics/zen.gif & (this is a scanned photo of my cat - her name is zen! - I know that's corny, but of all the cats I've known she deserves the name) I use the twm window manager. also see xsetroot(1) how did I find out how to do this ? - actually my son told me! - he had just started at university doing computing and spent some time setting up his environment.... how did he find out ? - I don't know! I think one problem with finding out how to do things is hitting on the right keyword when looking in indexes, doing searches etc. In this case it's 'root', e.g. run apropos(1) with 'root' as the parameter and it comes up with xsetroot, which tells you what you want to know. ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 04:38:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21332 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21319 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 101355.2112@compuserve.com) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id HAA14102 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:37:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:33:05 -0500 From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Desktop setup hints To: FreeBSD newbies Message-ID: <199803240737_MC2-37C9-D212@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > xv -root -max -rmode 5 -quit ~ruth/pics/zen.gif & > I use the twm window manager. > also see xsetroot(1) > You can also make a menu for twm with things like that: menu "background" { "black" !"xsetroot -solid black" "grid" !"xsetroot -mod 5 7 -bg red -fg blue" "my cat" !"xv -root -max -rmode 5 -quit ~ruth/pics/zen.gif &" } see in the file $HOME/.twmrc for more explanations about integrating this menu in twm. Best regards. Thierry. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 09:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29651 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:52:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29627 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3g-36.pacificnet.net (pm3g-36.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.85]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25016; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:47:30 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:47:24 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> cc: FreeBSD newbies Subject: Re: Desktop setup hints In-Reply-To: <199803240737_MC2-37C9-D212@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ewwww....twm. Try WindowMaker, or AfterStep, or better yet KDE (the best window manager of all time). Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Thierry Boudet wrote: > > > > xv -root -max -rmode 5 -quit ~ruth/pics/zen.gif & > > I use the twm window manager. > > also see xsetroot(1) > > > > You can also make a menu for twm with things like that: > > > menu "background" > { > "black" !"xsetroot -solid black" > "grid" !"xsetroot -mod 5 7 -bg red -fg blue" > "my cat" !"xv -root -max -rmode 5 -quit ~ruth/pics/zen.gif &" > } > > > see in the file $HOME/.twmrc for more explanations about > integrating this menu in twm. > > Best regards. Thierry. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 10:12:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03583 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:12:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03484 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf80.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.80]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29448; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:11:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:29:59 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Squid will that be fried ? To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980324160001.21911@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue 24 Mar, Sue Blake wrote: > > I was going to write you a little note explaining that questions like this > need to be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org because the newbies list is > only for discussion about being learners. But I had a problem. What ? You don't use M$-Outlook Express, then ? > I couldn't quote your text because the lines don't wrap. > Can you organise your software so that it limits each line to about 70 to 75 > characters long? That'll make it a lot easier for others to help you. I think you _can_ configure Outlook to produce sensible mails, with sensible quoting and no winmail.dat attached. It's just that it may take some time and effort. > Feel free to come back and ask here if you need help with your email. MCSE anybody ? :-) Seriously, I think that most users would be fully satisfied with the functionality of elm and pine on their first steps into e-mail and news. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 10:24:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06390 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:24:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06354 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13358 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:33:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:26:22 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Squid will that be fried ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Seriously, I think that most users would be fully satisfied with the > functionality of elm and pine on their first steps into e-mail and news. Even if you have to primarily still use a Windows or Win95 box, the University of Washington has been kind enough to produce a version of Pine that works great under both OSs. Plus it's got mouse functionality so you can cut and paste those web addresses easier...:) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 14:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09558 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (hamellr@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09551 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@polymorph.qcsn.com) Received: from localhost (hamellr@localhost) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15004 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:05 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Squid will that be fried ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Even if you have to primarily still use a Windows or Win95 box, > the University of Washington has been kind enough to produce a version of > Pine that works great under both OSs. Plus it's got mouse functionality so > you can cut and paste those web addresses easier...:) For those of you who are intersted in it, I found the URL to PC-Pine by the University of Washington, down below. Rick http://www.washington.edu/pine/pc-pine/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 19:59:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27066 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27016 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) From: anthony@sohopros.com Received: from anthony.flashnet (fwasc39-195.flash.net [209.30.59.195]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12960 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:59:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: anthony@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:00:00 -0600 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD sticker? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dose anyone know if there is such thing as a FreeBSD sticker? If so where can I get one? I would like to have one to stick on my car. I'm not kidding I would like to have one. Thanks, Anthony .... -- Anthony E. Coley Consultant, SohoPros anthony@sohopros.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 20:28:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01889 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01879 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10421; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:28:15 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980325152809.02511@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:28:10 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: anthony@sohopros.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sticker? References: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net>; from anthony@sohopros.com on Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:00:00PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:00:00PM -0600, anthony@sohopros.com wrote: > Dose anyone know if there is such thing as a FreeBSD > sticker? If so where can I get one? I would like to > have one to stick on my car. I'm not kidding I would > like to have one. Me too! In fact, I'd even settle for the car :-) I noticed on www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm there was a link to T-Shirts. Is that any use to you? Yeah, I know, they need washing more often :-( I think these things come and go. Ages ago they were talking about this kind of silliness on freebsd-chat, so you could try asking there. Let us know if you discover anything! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 21:12:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07599 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:12:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07559 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10560; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:12:00 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:11:55 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Let's compare notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) did you use? How did you find the resources? Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 21:22:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09031 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:22:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09019 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18176; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:30:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:23:57 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes In-Reply-To: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) Went into the games directory and looked for Hack and Rouge. :) > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? How to run makefile so I could play the games. :) > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? I called my roomate who is somewhat of a Linux guru. After playing with it for about three hours... :) > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? It was... faily enjoyable.. I like to try stuff like that... even if it takes me a while, I have a great sense of accomplishment when I can figure out how to do something.... Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 21:25:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09557 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:25:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from miro.bestweb.net (miro.bestweb.net [209.94.100.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09551 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:25:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from prw@bestweb.net) Received: from bofh (fwibbly@bofh.ircadmin.org [209.94.111.12]) by miro.bestweb.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA01911 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:25:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980325002508.008c5250@pop.bestweb.net> X-Sender: prw@pop.bestweb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:25:08 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Paul Wilson Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:11 PM 3/25/98 +1100, you wrote: > >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) I typed "man pppd" and tried to figure out how to connect to my ISP. > >Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? Everything. Why I had to compile the kernel to see my modem, why my hard drive light wanted to stay on constantly.... why ls -1 / | xargs rm -rf as root was a bad thing. I'd just started working as support for my ISP when I first installed FreeBSD, so I knew a few of the basics. > >How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) >did you use? How did you find the resources? My senior sysadmin was great, apart from he's a little bit of a BOFH. www.freebsd.org was good, the man pages were good, the docs that came with the programs I downloaded were good. > >Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? > It was great. I love a challenge. After about a year of FreeBSD, I'm confident with just about anything, with the help of man pages, even if some of them are cryptic. I'd do anything to get away from a Microslop product (I'd install FreeBSD right now if it would support my Plug and Pray BitSURFR Pro ISA modem) Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 21:38:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10869 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10863 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-10-13.stic.net [207.71.51.197]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA21514 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:40:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:34:44 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: my first time *sniff* Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue, I remember it like it was yesterday... I had read all of the manual and howto already and did a kernel compilation for my system. Then I disabled those annoying console messages and added some more virtual consoles. It was all a fairly frustrating processes because I just figured it out on my own with the little bit of documentation and man pages. I like the kernel configuration for fbsd much better then linux :P. Anyways, that was my first time...*sniff* :P remanicently (got ispell?), BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 22:15:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14458 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay03.indigo.ie (relay03.indigo.ie [194.125.133.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA14449 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emmetor@indigo.ie) Received: (qmail 29440 messnum 46098 invoked from network[194.125.146.199/ts02-08.cork.indigo.ie]); 25 Mar 1998 06:15:05 -0000 Received: from ts02-08.cork.indigo.ie (HELO indigo.ie) (194.125.146.199) by relay03.indigo.ie (qp 29440) with SMTP; 25 Mar 1998 06:15:05 -0000 Message-ID: <3518A1B7.BF44BDEE@indigo.ie> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:18:31 +0000 From: dayak Reply-To: emmetor@indigo.ie Organization: sfdgsdf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sticker? References: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net> <19980325152809.02511@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Um... I don't know who owns the logo, but if you had permission, you could just ask anyone who has an everyday Epson Stylus Color, to print out a transfer for ya. Then, erm.. ya could cut out around the shape and iron it onto to the sticky side of something sticky. And hey presto, ya got a car sticker. Hmm...it's at times like these, when us lurkers feel we have something to contribute. :-) Cheers, dayak P.S. Ask an adult or VMS user to supervise this.:) Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:00:00PM -0600, anthony@sohopros.com wrote: > > Dose anyone know if there is such thing as a FreeBSD > > sticker? If so where can I get one? I would like to > > have one to stick on my car. I'm not kidding I would > > like to have one. > > Me too! In fact, I'd even settle for the car :-) > > I noticed on www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm there was a link to > T-Shirts. Is that any use to you? Yeah, I know, they need washing more > often :-( > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 24 22:19:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15381 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15375 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18537; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:27:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:20:56 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: dayak cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sticker? In-Reply-To: <3518A1B7.BF44BDEE@indigo.ie> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Um... I don't know who owns the logo, but if you had permission, you could just > ask anyone > who has an everyday Epson Stylus Color, to print out a transfer for ya. > Then, erm.. ya could cut out around the shape and iron it onto to the sticky > side of something sticky. > And hey presto, ya got a car sticker. > Hmm...it's at times like these, when us lurkers feel we have something to > contribute. :-) A few years ago I had done a web serach for bumper stickers manufacturing machines, as I was going to start a side buisness selling my own. All I found was a $90 computer program that allowed you to do so. On the plus side, for $90 you got enough paper for Inkjets and sealant to make 500 stickers. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 00:08:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28440 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28435 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pirat@center.oaep.go.th) Received: from center.oaep.go.th (slip202-135-22-96.sy.au.ibm.net [202.135.22.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA150948; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:07:26 GMT Message-ID: <3518BB22.8D22ED20@center.oaep.go.th> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:06:59 +0700 From: pirat X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Phanuamorn Jamcharudsri (A40019)" Subject: Re: Let's compare notes References: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > startx and make connection to my isp. > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? > nfs that've never success. any body please help me. > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) man page and the complete bsd handbook second edition and also those two books that freebsd recommend. sorry i forgot their names. regards, pirat sriyotha To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 00:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02439 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02431 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 101355.2112@compuserve.com) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id DAA23948 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:40:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:37:48 -0500 From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Let's compare notes To: FreeBSD newbies Message-ID: <199803250340_MC2-37E1-9CD4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > download, compile and run POVRAY, then just after going to the computer store and buy a DX cpu :-) after, download and compile C-Kermit... Thierry. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 01:08:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04479 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:08:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04474 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:08:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA01513; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:58:47 GMT Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:58:47 GMT Message-Id: <199803250858.IAA01513@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Squid will that be fried ? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rick sorry, I missed the start of this thread - so don't know if the following is out of turn but Netscape - now free and runs on most os - has pretty good e-mail facilities, personally I use emacs (for just about everything!) but including e-mail. It's pretty good but not the best, but I'm pretty e-mail literate (I implement the stuff) so put up with its short comings for the sake of (a) having the same editor for all my work (b) it's excellent edditng functions! ruth > > > Seriously, I think that most users would be fully satisfied with the > > functionality of elm and pine on their first steps into e-mail and news. > > Even if you have to primarily still use a Windows or Win95 box, > the University of Washington has been kind enough to produce a version of > Pine that works great under both OSs. Plus it's got mouse functionality so > you can cut and paste those web addresses easier...:) > > > > Rick > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 01:28:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07101 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anubis.combox.de (reserve.combox.de [194.162.192.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07092 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from finger@bln.de) Received: from bln.de ([195.63.50.28]) by anubis.combox.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09237; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:26:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3518CDD3.A7904344@bln.de> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:26:44 +0100 From: Alexander Finger Reply-To: finger@mindless.com Organization: Alexander F!nger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG CC: Sue Blake Subject: Re: Let's compare notes References: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! Sue Blake wrote: > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) My girlfriend said she found me next morning in front of my computer sleeping with this "unforgetable" smile from one ear to the other in my face... :-) > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? Installing and configuring ijppp for my local network... > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? manpages... www.freebsd.org... some readmes and the diffs between examples in freebsd 2.2.2 and 2.2.5... :-) it was tricky but now we have acces to my ISP from three different computers! :-) > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? It wasn't funny and it took abuot eight hours... Best regards from Berlin... Alexander To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 01:48:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09605 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09598 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:48:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pirat@center.oaep.go.th) Received: from center.oaep.go.th (slip202-135-22-103.sy.au.ibm.net [202.135.22.103]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA315870; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:48:37 GMT Message-ID: <3518D2E2.F7DC67D4@center.oaep.go.th> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:48:19 +0700 From: pirat X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Harding , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Let's compare notes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sean Harding wrote: > On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, pirat wrote: > > > nfs that've never success. any body please help me. > > What are you trying to do and what is the problem you are having? NFS > should be relatively straightforward... > > sean > > -- > "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." > --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" > Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ i want to mount /usr/ports/distfiles from sukato.mydomain to yama.mydomain. but that's never gone. i read man page for /etc/exports file. but i still can not mount. regards, pirat sriyotha To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 05:01:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01439 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 05:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.hol.fr (root@mail3.hol.fr [194.149.160.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01430 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 05:00:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cbusquet@pop.hol.fr) Received: from penelope (marseille3-23.hol.fr [195.154.48.87]) by mail3.hol.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA28122 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:00:54 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199803251300.OAA28122@mail3.hol.fr> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Christian Busquet" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:03:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Reply-to: cbusquet@hol.fr X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54FR) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Did you mean this to go to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org ? >If so you might want to resend it. I'm sure the others would enjoy >it too. Well it seems that i've not looked at my To: fields :( so, i repost it On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 10:51:11AM +0100, Christian Busquet wrote: > >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > > ping belzebuth (It's my linux Box ;-) > (The name of my FreeBsd Box is Lucifer and i have a Minix 286 who's > call Belphegor ;-)) > > > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? > > doing Network. > > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, > > whatever) did you use? How did you find the resources? > > I use FreeBsd Hanbook, Faq and my experience with Linux and Howto. > (and i Watch the Blinking Led on My NE2000 cards) > > > Did you enjoy it ? How long did it take to learn? > > Yes Very Much, but i don't know how many times > (pure FreeBsd 10 min., but what for the previous experience ?) > > > After That I configure Sendmail, and mail go between the two Machine > Really, Really Fun !!! Thanks Sue. -- cbusquet@hol.fr cbus@belzebuth.gyptis.frmug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 05:50:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10377 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 05:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10371 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 05:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-11-12.stic.net [207.71.50.242]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA22474 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:52:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:48:19 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: upgrading blues Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org *sigh* I've known about the 2.2.6 release for a while now. Unfortunatly it came out like a day after I finished tweaking my fbsd box to how I like it. *sigh* I do not want to do that again! Whats the easiest way to upgrade my machine? What are the actual differences between the distributions? BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 06:18:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14741 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14706 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from jpurser.pdx.oneworld.com (mta171.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.171]) by mail1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11565 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:15:57 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD57B5.7938BAE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: FW: upgrading blues Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:15:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I hear you BJ! This last Sunday I walked into the local Borders Bookstore (Salem, Oregon) and was stunned to see the "Latest" (2.2.5) FreeBSD. I had given up on 2.2.2 because I just didn't know enough about Unix to get it going and the Documentation simply didn't cover what I needed. I decided to put it on hold until I got a second computer so I could dedicate one to FreeBSD. When I leafed through the new manual I couldn't believe how much better the documentation was!!! I got it installed and am studying the Networking/Internet chapters. I WILL get in on the internet with FreeBSD or die trying. One pleasant surprise is that it turns out that my current ISP (Oneworld.com, Portland, Oregon; Phone number on request) uses FreeBSD on some of their servers. Now three days later there's another Latest and Greatest. I think I'll stick to 2.2.5 until maybe 3.0.0 comes out. It is great to know that FreeBSD is alive and growing though! John Purser -----Original Message----- From: BJ Bell [SMTP:brian@centrisys.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 05:48 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: upgrading blues *sigh* I've known about the 2.2.6 release for a while now. Unfortunatly it came out like a day after I finished tweaking my fbsd box to how I like it. *sigh* I do not want to do that again! Whats the easiest way to upgrade my machine? What are the actual differences between the distributions? BJ ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 07:22:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22953 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:22:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freenet5.afn.org (freenet5.afn.org [128.227.163.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22902 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sylvar@afn.org) Received: from freenet2.afn.org (sylvar@freenet2.afn.org [128.227.163.4]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.1S) with ESMTP id KAA16581 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (sylvar@localhost) by freenet2.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.0C) with SMTP id KAA174788 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:22:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: freenet2.afn.org: sylvar owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:22:22 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Ostrowsky To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sticker? In-Reply-To: <3518A1B7.BF44BDEE@indigo.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Then, erm.. ya could cut out around the shape and iron it onto to the sticky > side of something sticky. > P.S. Ask an adult or VMS user to supervise this.:) Oh great. The iron breaks down and I have to call field circus. No thanks... ;) Ben To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 07:58:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28468 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28461 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:58:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA02270 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002268; Wed Mar 25 07:57:21 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03011 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:57:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:57:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803251557.HAA03011@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:11:55 +1100 >From: Sue Blake >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) Well.... I logged in as root (to see if anything worked). Getting there was challenging: PC hardware is so *strange* -- I never did get X running on that system. (Moot point now; I hear that the person who acquired it lobotomized it so it would run some M$ stuff.) Fortunately, my boss had set up the machine I'm using now, so it's running OK... though I find that screen resolution is noticably lower than I'm used to. (Even my old Sun 3/60 at home uses 1152x900; the screen here is 1024x768, and the difference is enough that the vertical dimension of the window for xfig doesn't fit on the screen... which is really annoying, since there are useful controls along both the top & bottom edges of the window.... I'm hoping to get a framebuffer for the SS5 (at home) that will support 1280x1024, preferably with 24-bit color.) >Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? The way FreeBSD handles system initialization (/etc/rc*). Seems that everyone has A Better Way To Do Things.... :-( Then I found that the timing of the "sourcing" of /etc/rc.conf is such that the present structure doesn't quite do what I need it to, so I ended up needing to add a few lines to /etc/rc.network. (Yes, I used RCS to track these.... :-) >How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) >did you use? How did you find the resources? Fortunately, we have some of the folks involved with FreeBSD here on staff (and whom I'm supposed to be supporting). Still, the reason I'm here is so they can spend more time on product-related things. And I find that my expectation that things will work as documented seems to end up with machines hanging or crashing.... I finally think(!) I have a nasty problem with NFS & amd circumvented: seems that NFS defaults to V3 if it can (which is as expected), but "loop-back" mounts (where a machine uses itself as an NFS server) can cause hangs if NFS V3 is being used, and it took a couple of weeks (during which I got the kernel upgraded from running 2.2.5-RELEASE to 2.2.6-BETA) before I found that there really was a way to tell amd to use V2... and it didn't seem to be documented anywhere I could find, until someone suggested I search the archives at www.freebsd.org. And there I found that specifying the "nfsv2" option to amd is what I needed to do. Since then, I was able to actually complete a "make" for BIND-8.1.1 (which had been repeatedly hanging the machine), so I *think* it might be OK now.... Meanwhile, I'm trying to learn what flavor of FreeBSD would be best to run for some mission-critical servers... and the above experience didn't do wonders for my confidence level. >Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? It's an on-going process.... :-} Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 09:54:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24319 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:54:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24247; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA12365; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:53:40 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326045337.59707@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:53:37 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [REVIEW] Changes to the DocProj web pages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Everyone interested in documentation should take a close look here! This announcement was posted to freebsd-doc and is a good example of how completed work is checked. Read on to find out about the whole process. Note that all review comments and discussions are held in public on the one relevant mailing list (in this case, freebsd-doc for documentation). Nik isn't subscribed to -newbies yet. To make sure that he (and everyone on freebsd-doc) sees your comments, please cc: them to freebsd-doc@freebsd.org. If you want to watch the documentation process as it happens, and certainly if are writing or reviewing documentation yourself, you should subscribe to -doc. Note that it is a fairly low volume high quality mailing list so don't take any of my bad habits with you :-) -----Forwarded message from nik@iii.co.uk----- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:00:53 +0000 To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jfieber@FreeBSD.ORG, mbarkah@FreeBSD.ORG, paul@FreeBSD.ORG, dave@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [REVIEW] Changes to the DocProj web pages Hi folks, [ sent to -doc, and a few individuals who should definitely see this before it's committed ] Based on comments made on this list and to me in private over the past week or so, I've made a stab at rewriting and expanding some of the information about the project that's available on the web site. The aim is to make the public face for the DocProj appear more open and approachable. If you go to you'll see my proposed replacement for I put this together in about an hour and a half last night, so I've undoubtedly missed stuff, or phrased things confusingly. I know that I've repeated some of the information that's available in other places, particularly the Handbook. However, many of the comments I've read have been about how the necessary information isn't all in one place. I know the proper solution is to get all this stuff into the Handbook, but I don't see a long queue of volunteers submitting diffs, so this is, at least, a start. I'd appreciate folks taking a look at this, letting me know what they think. If the overall reaction is positive I'll commit it next week (which should give enough time for any discussion it generates). Feel free to repost this to other lists, if you think it's appropriate. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message -----End of forwarded message----- -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 11:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12874 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12867 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:20:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12616; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:19:52 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326061948.63584@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:19:48 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: ruth moulton Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803250858.IAA01513@muswell.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803250858.IAA01513@muswell.demon.co.uk>; from ruth moulton on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 08:58:47AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 08:58:47AM +0000, ruth moulton wrote: > Rick > > sorry, I missed the start of this thread - so don't know if the > following is out of turn but No, we do need to cover the use of email some more. Newbies cannot survive on the other lists unless they get this right. > Netscape - now free and runs on most os - has pretty good e-mail > facilities, I haven't used Netscape for email but I've been the victim of its users many times :-( Please, if you must use Netscape or any microsoft or other nonstandard email application, first ensure that: 1. You have thoroughly studied http://www.lemis.com/email.html 2. You understand what it says 3. Your email app (or whatever) is set up to comply, and 4. You know how to use it to ensure it complies Beware: These days a lot of software has default settings that are wrong, to make it work well with that company's software and hideously with every other company's software. (They tell me it's "marketing" but I have more colourful words for these practices!) Also make sure that it doesn't send out HTML or any other attachments, whether it tells you it's sending them or not. Of course you've all read http://www.lemis.com/email.html already because it covers more than just the use of software, so this is a reminder :-) In case you haven't read it yet, here's the URL: http://www.lemis.com/email.html If you forget where it is, ask for yet another subtle hint :-) I'm going to start pestering everyone here until they get it right. That's better than being criticised elsewhere, don't you think? Discuss here if you have any questions about email. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 11:53:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18635 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18602 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:52:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21722; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:52:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: pirat cc: Sean Harding , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Let's compare notes In-Reply-To: <3518D2E2.F7DC67D4@center.oaep.go.th> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, pirat wrote: > i want to mount /usr/ports/distfiles from sukato.mydomain to yama.mydomain. > but that's never gone. This kind of question should go to freebsd-questions, not freebsd-newbies; that's why I took newbies out when I replied to you. I'll answer in private e-mail. If you have further questions you want to pose to a list, please send it to questions. Thanks. Sean -- "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 12:27:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26355 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:27:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from HME1.smtp.sprint.ca (HME1.smtp.sprint.ca [207.107.250.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26347 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tjprimeau@sprint.ca) Received: from prime (spc-isp-ham-uas-01-12.sprint.ca [209.103.21.13]) by HME1.smtp.sprint.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA25796 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:27:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <020701bd582c$8f2df140$0100a8c0@prime.EVIL> From: "T.J." To: "FreeBsd-Newbie" Subject: UserConfig Question. Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:28:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In the Complete FreeBsd second edition, page 85 say's for Matsushita/Panasonic CD-ROM when they are not found to set the matcd to -1. How do I set this -1? it does not except -1 or ffffffff. This is a Panasonic CR-562 but it is running off the Sony interface on a zoltrix 3200ap sound card ( uses port 340 under dos, tried 350 like suggested) could this be a problem? If so, is there a work around ? Thanks for any help in advance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 12:41:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29193 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:41:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29123 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00515; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:41:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35196BE1.3A5110DD@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:41:05 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BJ Bell CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: upgrading blues References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BJ Bell wrote: > > *sigh* I've known about the 2.2.6 release for a while now. Unfortunatly it > came out like a day after I finished tweaking my fbsd box to how I like > it. *sigh* I do not want to do that again! Whats the easiest way to > upgrade my machine? Using the make world method will update the system binaries without touching your configuration stuff. It will be up to you to merge those files by hand. > What are the actual differences between the distributions? Check out ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.2.6-RELEASE/RELNOTES.TXT. There are also numerous fixes, improvements to PPP, etc. At the same time, 2.2.5 was a pretty good release so you might just want to stick with that. :) The thing about FreeBSD is that it's a moving target. There is always something happening, improvements being made, etc. That doesn't mean you have to keep up with it, especially if you are the only one using your system. Check out http://home.san.rr.com/freebsd/upgrade.html. It is a version of the "Upgrade from source" tutorial that is directed more towards the new user. If you have any specific questions about the process of upgrading they are probably better served by being asked on freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 12:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29963 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29950 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA12849; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:45:04 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326074500.38744@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:45:01 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FW: upgrading blues References: <01BD57B5.7938BAE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD57B5.7938BAE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 06:15:51AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BJ Bell and John M. Purser both reported their dismay at seeing a new release of FreaBSD appear shortly after installing 2.2.5, and wonder about upgrading. If it's any consolation, I'm still running 2.2.2 and have no plans to upgrade. It was good when I installed it and I haven't broken anything yet. If it does what you want, use it! I only upgrade when I can't avoid it any longer. Of course there may be good reasons for upgrading to 2.2.6 that I'm not aware of (I haven't taken much interest to tell the truth). Be aware that upgrading FreeBSD is not at all like upgrading windoze. First you really do have to read all of the info available and know what you're doing, and it's more of a manual process. The system assumes you'll know to make all the necessary decisions and trusts that you'll do so correctly. If I was going to upgrade, I'd subscribe to freebsd-questions after the release and watch it like a hawk for a couple of weeks first. PS What do you all think of the new nastygram below my sig? Does it sound too rude? -- Regards, -*Sue*- # Note: Some of the context of this thread may have been lost. # The formatting of the message didn't allow a normal quoted reply. # For more details see http://www.lemis.com/email.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 12:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01571 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voicenet.com (mail11.voicenet.com [207.103.0.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01553 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwenk@voicenet.com) Received: (qmail 23820 invoked from network); 25 Mar 1998 20:57:22 -0000 Received: from omni1.voicenet.com (207.103.0.31) by mail11.voicenet.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 1998 20:57:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 28833 invoked by uid 14559); 25 Mar 1998 20:57:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:57:20 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Schwenk X-Sender: schwenk@omni1 To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes In-Reply-To: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here's my submission: On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) Login > > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? User-mode PPP > > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? Pedantic PPP Primer on the FreeBSD Web Site > > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? Yes. A couple days. > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more - Peter Schwenk - schwenk@voicenet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 13:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04606 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04590 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta171.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.171]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12020 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:11:15 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD57EF.7DF5C160.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Let's Try that Again! :-) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:11:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To the Community: Okay Sue, I've gone to http://www.lemis.com/email.htmlread and RTFM. I THINK I've reconfigured MSOutlook to behave. Care to grade me? To all others, I "Knew" I had no special flags thrown in the Mail setup of MSOutlook so I didn't even check after seeing Sue's first warnings. Sorry if I offended. It was just ignorance, the boy just aint got no couth yet! John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 13:20:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05770 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:20:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05683 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:19:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) From: anthony@sohopros.com Received: from anthony.flashnet (fwasc11-28.flash.net [209.30.26.28]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18383 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:19:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980325152009.00857980@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: anthony@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:20:11 -0600 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) I did an dir to see what was there and can you believe that darn box gave me a message saying dir: command not found. :-) > >Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? After my 10th or 11th install trying to get things just like I wanted them (because I didn't know how to recompile the kernel yet) was learning how to configure my ppp.conf, so I could dial-up the Internet because I needed help from FreeBSD-questions. > >How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) >did you use? How did you find the resources? I purchased The Complete FreeBSD book, which is better known to me as the FreeBSD Bible. Of course I can't forget to give credit where credit is due "FreeBSD-questions" has helped me greatly. > >Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? Yes I very much enjoyed the learning experience. I'm still learning. > > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- Anthony E. Coley Consultant, SohoPros anthony@sohopros.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 13:27:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06833 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:27:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06822 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA12974; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:26:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326082628.37419@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:26:29 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) References: <01BD57EF.7DF5C160.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD57EF.7DF5C160.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > To the Community: > > Okay Sue, I've gone to http://www.lemis.com/email.htmlread and RTFM. > I THINK I've reconfigured MSOutlook to behave. Care to grade me? Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before I can find something decent to pick on. > To all others, I "Knew" I had no special flags thrown in the Mail > setup of MSOutlook so I didn't even check after seeing Sue's first > warnings. Sorry if I offended. You won't offend anyone here, but others will do their utmost to offend you if you try those mickeysoft tricks in another mailing list. Besides, if other newbies start copying I'll soon be outnumbered, and next thing everyone will be typing secrets to the right of the 80 character limit of my text screen. > It was just ignorance, the boy just aint got no couth yet! Roll up! Roll up! Get your couth here! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 13:33:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08299 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:33:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08187 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp78.keyworld.net [194.21.164.141]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA01084 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:29:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199803252129.WAA01084@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: Subject: Asking Questions Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:32:54 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hallo, Suppose, I need to ask a specific question, do I need to subscribe to freebsd-questions first? Chris Martin KeyWORLD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 14:16:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18443 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18403 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:15:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta170.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.170]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13938; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:15:32 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "'Sue Blake'" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Let's Try that Again! :-) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:15:24 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:26 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > To the Community: > > > > Okay Sue, I've gone to http://www.lemis.com/email.htmlread and RTFM. > > I THINK I've reconfigured MSOutlook to behave. Care to grade me? > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > I > can find something decent to pick on. Not much I can do about long and short lines. It's a formatting function from when I sent the first one. As the first letter was formatted to X spaces when I forward the forward I got from you the inserted "> " extend the line length. Instead of removing the hard returns at the end of the line new ones are added at X spaces or thereabouts. I don't see a way out, any solutions out there? > > You won't offend anyone here, but others will do their utmost to offend > you Trust me, sooner or later I offend someone everywhere! ;-) Has anyone else noticed that the world has been in a bad mood for the last 20 years or so? > if you try those mickeysoft tricks in another mailing list. Besides, if > other newbies start copying I'll soon be outnumbered, and next thing > everyone will be typing secrets to the right of the 80 character limit of > my > text screen. If we had any secrets we wouldn't be Newbies! > John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 14:20:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19957 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19893 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ABAMFICI@aol.com) Received: from ABAMFICI@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id HZJCa05227 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: ABAMF ICI Message-ID: <9b0eaa75.351982fa@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:19:36 EST To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In a message dated 98-03-25 04:29:18 EST, you write: >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >he prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) dir > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? how ls works better... > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? yahoo.com search for FreeBSD > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? yeah it was kinda fun......took less then 5 mins... as for the rest of it freebsd.........douh! ~Kevin :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 15:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01486 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01448 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:40:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13390; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:39:37 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326103933.03367@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:39:33 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) References: <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:26 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > > To the Community: > > > > > > Okay Sue, I've gone to http://www.lemis.com/email.htmlread and RTFM. > > > I THINK I've reconfigured MSOutlook to behave. Care to grade me? > > > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > > I > > can find something decent to pick on. > > Not much I can do about long and short lines. It's a formatting function > from when I sent the first one. As the first letter was formatted to X > spaces when I forward the forward I got from you the inserted "> " extend > the line length. Instead of removing the hard returns at the end of the > line new ones are added at X spaces or thereabouts. I don't see a way > out, any solutions out there? Your email software (or its editor) is supposed to recognise what is a quoted paragraph and reformat it accordingly when the line length gets too long. Watch what mine does: > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > > I > > can find something decent to pick on. > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > > I can find something decent to pick on. It's not directly your fault. The software seems to be letting you down. The result is the same: you look like you can't do it, and it gets progressively harder to read as it's requoted. > > You won't offend anyone here, but others will do their utmost to offend > > you > Trust me, sooner or later I offend someone everywhere! ;-) Has anyone > else noticed that the world has been in a bad mood for the last 20 years > or so? It has indeed. Everything's getting busier and tolerance is a luxury. Do you see this mess before it goes out? Can you fix it then? Normally I'd reformat before replying if it's not too messed up to be fixed, but we're experimenting here. I hope you don't mind. > > if you try those mickeysoft tricks in another mailing list. Besides, if > > other newbies start copying I'll soon be outnumbered, and next thing > > everyone will be typing secrets to the right of the 80 character limit > of > > my > > text screen. > If we had any secrets we wouldn't be Newbies! > > > John Purser OK, the problem's pretty clear in that last section. Some of my words immediately followed by your response without a break, then your signature. The only cues we have are the number of quote marks and the shape of the text on the screen. In this case, both are wrong and misleading. Just for fun, quote this back and we'll see if it gets worse. Meanwhile we have to come up with a solution. Is the software really so braindead that it cannot be beaten into submission? Is anyone else out there using the same software? Help! If you're stuck in windoze for some reason I recommend Pegasus Mail as one which can reliably produce email that makes you look good (but it's also powerful enough to be misused). The best solution of course is to use a wonderful operating system called FreeBSD which has plenty of good well behaved software :-) Oh, and your grade so far? Ten out of ten for attending to the problem. Just remind me not to let you choose my software :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 15:54:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03736 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:54:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03612 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta163.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.163]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA16434; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:53:47 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5806.323ABC00.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "'Sue Blake'" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Let's Try that Again! :-) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:53:28 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 3:40 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:26 PM, Sue Blake > > [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > > wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > > > To the Community: > > > > > > > > Okay Sue, I've gone to http://www.lemis.com/email.htmlread and > > > > RTFM. > > > > I THINK I've reconfigured MSOutlook to behave. Care to grade me? > > > > > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this > > > before > > > I > > > can find something decent to pick on. > > > > Not much I can do about long and short lines. It's a formatting > > function > > from when I sent the first one. As the first letter was formatted to X > > > > spaces when I forward the forward I got from you the inserted "> " > > extend > > the line length. Instead of removing the hard returns at the end of > > the > > line new ones are added at X spaces or thereabouts. I don't see a way > > > > out, any solutions out there? > > Your email software (or its editor) is supposed to recognise what is a > quoted paragraph and reformat it accordingly when the line length gets > too > long. Watch what mine does: > > > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this > > > before > > > I > > > can find something decent to pick on. > > > > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this > > > before > > > I can find something decent to pick on. > > It's not directly your fault. The software seems to be letting you down. > The result is the same: you look like you can't do it, and it gets > progressively harder to read as it's requoted. > > > > > You won't offend anyone here, but others will do their utmost to > > > offend > > > you > > Trust me, sooner or later I offend someone everywhere! ;-) Has anyone > > > > else noticed that the world has been in a bad mood for the last 20 > > years > > or so? > > It has indeed. Everything's getting busier and tolerance is a luxury. > > Do you see this mess before it goes out? Can you fix it then? > Normally I'd reformat before replying if it's not too messed up to be > fixed, > but we're experimenting here. I hope you don't mind. > > > > if you try those mickeysoft tricks in another mailing list. Besides, > > > if > > > other newbies start copying I'll soon be outnumbered, and next thing > > > everyone will be typing secrets to the right of the 80 character > > > limit > > of > > > my > > > text screen. > > If we had any secrets we wouldn't be Newbies! > > > > > John Purser > > OK, the problem's pretty clear in that last section. Some of my words > immediately followed by your response without a break, then your > signature. > The only cues we have are the number of quote marks and the shape of the > text on the screen. In this case, both are wrong and misleading. Just > for > fun, quote this back and we'll see if it gets worse. > > Meanwhile we have to come up with a solution. > Is the software really so braindead that it cannot be beaten into > submission? Is anyone else out there using the same software? Help! > > If you're stuck in windoze for some reason I recommend Pegasus Mail as > one > which can reliably produce email that makes you look good (but it's also > powerful enough to be misused). The best solution of course is to use a > wonderful operating system called FreeBSD which has plenty of good well > behaved software :-) > > Oh, and your grade so far? Ten out of ten for attending to the problem. > Just remind me not to let you choose my software :-) > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more Okay folks, this will get messy! I hear that the Univ. of Washington has ported Pine to Dos. I might get a copy but I'd really rather wait until I get FreeBSD to the point I can do something useful. Right now I can't connect to the Internet (still reading) or even mount my CDROM (device not configured - You loaded from it, how the hell can it not be configured!!!!) Are you telling me that when you reply to a letter you editor removes the ">" and reformats each line? That would be very nice indeed. John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 16:27:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08276 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08217 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13512; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:26:01 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326112556.21828@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:25:56 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) References: <01BD5806.323ABC00.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD5806.323ABC00.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 03:53:28PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 03:53:28PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 3:40 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > wrote: Urk... I guess we've both been forced to give up on quoting the old text. > Okay folks, this will get messy! > > I hear that the Univ. of Washington has ported Pine to Dos. I might get a > copy but I'd really rather wait until I get FreeBSD to the point I can do > something useful. Well, can you correct this strange formatting before you whack the Send button or not? (That question must have gotten lost in the previous jumble) > Right now I can't connect to the Internet (still > reading) or even mount my CDROM (device not configured - You loaded from > it, how the hell can it not be configured!!!!) Hehe, I'm sure it sees some logic in there that mortals don't. And it rings a bell. Assuming you've been through the Handbook and FAQ, have you tried searching the -questions archives for similar problems? I find error messages are good value; they give something to search for when nothing else makes sense. > Are you telling me that when you reply to a letter you editor removes the > ">" and reformats each line? That would be very nice indeed. It adds "> " to the beginning of each line. Then it can either leave it as is, or reformat it to shorter lines. It has the ability to remember how many quote marks to put back at the beginning of each line after reformatting, and adds the same number to any extra lines of text that are produced. It is nice, yes. For now you might need to do that part manually. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 17:05:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15031 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:05:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.inw.net (ns.inw.net [206.28.240.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15001 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:05:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from denny@kewanee.net) Received: from loki (keppp13.inw.net [207.2.103.82]) by ns.inw.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA24683 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:04:33 -0600 (CST) Received: by loki (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:04:19 -0600 Message-ID: <00bd01bd5853$1ae3d2b0$0200a8c0@loki.inw.net> Reply-To: "Denny Reiter" From: "Denny Reiter" To: Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:04:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.4 Evaluation Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The first thing I typed was 'dir'! Then I scrounged up an old Slackware book my brother had left lying around and just started trying various things. I've advanced a bit in the last month. I did my first 'make world' last Thursday. Last night, after 127 hours, it locked up and I had to reboot. I guess that will teach me to try to do anything on a 386SX-25 w/ 6meg of memory ;-) But it makes a great learning experience. Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 11:15 PM Subject: Let's compare notes > >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > >Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? > >How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) >did you use? How did you find the resources? > >Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? > > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 17:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15312 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15167 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:05:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13626; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:05:39 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326120535.04587@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:05:35 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Interesting site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apparently there's a place called "People Helping One Another Know Stuff" http://www.phoaks.com which might be a good source for other info, like basic unix and so on. I'm not real sure how it works. Is there anyone with more free time than me who'd like to check out whether it's any good for real newbies to use, and then give us their impressions? The more of a newbie you are the better for this task. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 17:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20460 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20425 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id LAA11510; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:36:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma011494; Thu, 26 Mar 98 11:36:34 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02901; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:36:22 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA273386181; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:36:21 +1100 Message-Id: <3519B115.23C0D12A@scitec.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:36:21 +1100 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: pirat Cc: Sean Harding , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Let's compare notes References: <3518D2E2.F7DC67D4@center.oaep.go.th> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org pirat wrote: > i want to mount /usr/ports/distfiles from sukato.mydomain to yama.mydomain. > but that's never gone. Make sure you have nfs_server (or nfs_client depending on the machine) enabled in /etc/rc.conf, I've only ever used nfs_server so I can't say anything about the client only NFS working. > i read man page for /etc/exports file. but i still can not mount. This is my /etc/exports file. / -maproot=root:wheel pacer amiga toshiba /var -maproot=root:wheel pacer amiga toshiba /usr -maproot=root:wheel pacer amiga toshiba However if you want to mount /usr/ports/distfiles directly, either add an entry for it to /etc/exports, or use the -alldirs option for /usr. i.e. Something like... /usr -alldirs,-maproot=root:wheel pacer amiga toshiba P.S. Pacer is my main machine running FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA, amiga is my Amiga 3000 running NetBSD/68k 1.2.1. Toshiba is my notebook running FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE. I have an ethernet network at home, but the toshiba uses the parallel port IP interface until I get a PCMCIA ethernet card. I find the parallel port IP interface causes the toshiba to sporadically reboot a lot so I haven't been able to upgrade it to 2.2.6 yet. Cheers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 18:13:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25689 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:13:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25682 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca ([206.186.205.70]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12842 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:52:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3519B3CC.FA9B4593@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:47:56 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Fuck, My e-mail was not working right. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry, if someone have try my page www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html or trying to register Dont know why, but the Altavista service @whoever.com his a lot of time DOWN so now, it malartre@aei.ca Retry to register to http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/registration.html it should now work Real big tanks to Sue KapuT is KAPUT! argh, altatavista sucks -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 18:14:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26101 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:14:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26082 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca ([206.186.205.70]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11435; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:43:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3519B1CD.2C2053A7@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:39:25 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes References: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > Cryinghehehe No, has a Micro$oft user, I was lost. A login??? That sucks hehehe So finaly, I have enter the dark world of Unix. > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? > cd cd .. ls and all that stuff I have never setted up PPP I am always using ppp term atz atd1234567 (the phone number of my ISP...) a lot of thing and finaly a friend, the only who was under freebsd said than I have to do the command add 0 0 HISADDR I dont know why, but it work hehehe I will search... Then ircII after, I have setted up Xwindows and after after, I discovered fvwm and Netscape. Not Slowsaic hehehehe and after after after, its now :-) So I know a lot of thing for one month user hehe (and I do a revenge on Linux user who do war on IRC with NewTear :-)))))))) People who nuke sucks... > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? > A friend, The Complete FreeBSD 1 edition (800 pages) and sometime, when I understand, freebsd.org's handbook > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? > a lot of reading. But now, I dont think like before :-) > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message KapuT -- *************************** kaput@whoever.com www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix-Version FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 18:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28501 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28488 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:32:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-20.aei.ca [206.186.205.70]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21167 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:32:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3519BD4F.73601D8B@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:28:31 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Sorry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry, I was not allowed to say "fuck" but I was terribly frustrated hehehe so, sorry... and altavista s*** KapuT his KAPUT -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 19:00:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01116 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01093 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-46.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.143]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA05188; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:58:02 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:57:46 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes In-Reply-To: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > Well, considering that FreeBSD 2.2.2 didn't like my Hitachi 4X cdrom, I had to install it by a dos partition (which really isn't cool). So the first thing I did was find out why my cdrom wasn't supported/detected. Then when I finally gave up I tried getting PPP up and running using the user ppp thing, but I failed at that too. So basically, I just played around with the system to see where things are and stuff like that. Then I got X Windows running. I love X Windows. I feel that a computer just isn't any fun without GUI. > Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? > > How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) > did you use? How did you find the resources? > The one place that I turned to was the mailing lists (freebsd-questions) and the FreeBSD Hanbook. I wish I had ordered the book from Walnut Creek, but I didn't. It probably would have helped me alot in configuring ppp and maybe in compiling a new kernel. Although, that's hard to say because it seems that the only way to "test drive" the book is by actually ordering it. I haven't found a book store that has a copy of that book. > Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? > > > -- > > I love playing with new computer toys. I like challenges. I can easily sit down for hours and try to figure something out, but I get frustrated quickly. :( Anyways, It does take along while to learn the Unix system (probably even a lifetime as I've seen quoted in some books). There is alot to learn. I wish I had learned about Unix (and computers) years ago, when I was in High School. At almost 23 I feel kinda old. Considering that there are hackers that are 15 years old cracking the Pentagon. *I have lot's to learn* > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 19:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01254 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01191 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-46.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.143]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA05519; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:59:42 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:59:27 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: BJ Bell cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my first time *sniff* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Which console messages? I always hated the stupid message that would occur everytime I logged in as root on another virtual terminal. Is this the message(s) that you are referring to? If so, how did you disable them? Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, BJ Bell wrote: > Sue, > > I remember it like it was yesterday... > > I had read all of the manual and howto already and did a kernel > compilation for my system. Then I disabled those annoying console messages > and added some more virtual consoles. It was all a fairly frustrating > processes because I just figured it out on my own with the little bit of > documentation and man pages. I like the kernel configuration for fbsd much > better then linux :P. Anyways, that was my first time...*sniff* :P > > remanicently (got ispell?), > BJ > > ---- > > No Compromise (No Regrets) > > BJ Bell (aka Artificer) > brian@centrisys.com > > ---- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 19:12:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02351 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:12:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02178 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:11:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-46.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.143]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07847; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:09:15 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:09:00 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: "John M. Purser" cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FW: upgrading blues In-Reply-To: <01BD57B5.7938BAE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, John M. Purser wrote: > Now three days later there's another Latest and Greatest. I think I'll > stick to 2.2.5 until maybe 3.0.0 comes out. It is great to know that > FreeBSD is alive and growing though! > > John Purser > I'm pretty much waiting until 3.0 comes out as well. My current machine runs Linux and Win95 and I just don't have enough room for FreeBSD, so I plan to get a dual CPU machine to run FreeBSD and WinNT. My plans are too learn how to network the two machines together. Anyways, anyone know how the development for 3.0 is going? Bear > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 19:14:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02789 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:14:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02678 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:13:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14004; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:13:42 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980326141338.54386@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:13:38 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Joey Garcia Cc: BJ Bell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my first time *sniff* References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Joey Garcia on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 06:59:27PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 06:59:27PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Which console messages? I always hated the stupid message that would > occur everytime I logged in as root on another virtual terminal. Is this > the message(s) that you are referring to? If so, how did you disable > them? Hehe, now you guys have got me confused too! Which console messages? What do they say? Stop teasing and give us all the gorey details :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 19:39:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05948 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05933 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA23152; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:39:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:39:31 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: Joey Garcia cc: BJ Bell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my first time *sniff* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Joey Garcia wrote: > Which console messages? I always hated the stupid message that would > occur everytime I logged in as root on another virtual terminal. Is this > the message(s) that you are referring to? If so, how did you disable > them? That's cause by syslog; you probably have a line in /etc/syslog.conf including something like "auth.notice /dev/console". So, you cold comment out this line, but it probably has stuff besides auth going to the console that you odn't want to lose. So, you could remove auth.notice, or you could add auth.none to the end. If it helps anyone, here is my syslog.conf (notice that it *does* have auth logging to the console): # Log very important stuff to the console *.err;kern.debug;auth.notice;mail.crit /dev/console # A basic summary goes to messages *.notice;kern.debug;lpr.info;mail.crit;auth.none /var/log/messages # If user netlog (a pseudo-login with a disabled shell for log monitoring) # is logged in, they get everything but mail stuff. *.*;mail.none netlog # Log all mail stuff except for debugging info to maillog mail.info /var/log/maillog # Printing errors lpr.info /var/log/lpd-errs # Root, if logged in, hears about important things *.err root *.notice root *.alert root # Send emergency info to everyone logged in. User processes are not # allowed to do this *.emerg;user.none * # Log auth info to auth and to a remote secure log host auth.* /var/log/auth #auth.* @loghost # Log local stuff to the correct file local3.* /var/log/fingerlog local2.info /var/log/sudolog local4.* /var/log/sshdlog # Put *everything* into debug; this log is rotated often and is # useful when something weird is going on *.debug /var/log/debug # The timecheck can be useful for figuring out when a machine crashed/ # went down, etc. mark.debug /var/log/timecheck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 20:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08780 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08760 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-10.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.59]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21587; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:16:23 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:16:06 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Peter Schwenk cc: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's compare notes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Peter Schwenk wrote: > > Here's my submission: > > On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > > > Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at > > the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) > > Login > I think she covered that part already. =P She meant after logging in. >=| > > > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > -*Sue*- > > > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > > - Peter Schwenk - schwenk@voicenet.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 22:56:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25118 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25111 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newshirt@best.com) Received: from newshirt.vip.best.com (newshirt.vip.best.com [206.86.1.143]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id WAA21591 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:54:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803260654.WAA21591@proxy4.ba.best.com> X-Sender: newshirt@shell7.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:54:14 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: tony cappellini Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 25 23:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27317 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27311 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newshirt@best.com) Received: from newshirt.vip.best.com (newshirt.vip.best.com [206.86.1.143]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id XAA07694 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:17:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803260717.XAA07694@proxy4.ba.best.com> X-Sender: newshirt@shell7.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:17:52 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: tony cappellini Subject: BSD 2.25 install problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I'm using a Adaptec 2940UW, and 2 Seagate 2.1GB SCSI drives, Pentium 100, 64MB ram. (booting from the Cdrom is enabled in the 2940 bios) When I try booting 2.25 from my SCSI CDRom iI get the following messages "A bootable CDrom is detected in your CDrom drive" "The boot sections on your bootable CDrom are :0. Default Entry" "Your cdrom drive is inserted as Drive A: (0h). The original drive A" has become drive b:" Then the system sits there indefinitely. So I tried booting to dos, then running install forn the Cdrom. This works well, until I get tot the "Select Distribution Medium" section of Lehey's book "The Complete Free BSD" (2nd edition), then when I select CDRom, it tells me no Cdroms were found. Then I tried copying the CDrom to a dos partition, using the setup.exe program (which was described in the sysinstall documentation), and after a few seconds of CDrom and HD activity, an error message is displayed "x32bin.tgz" is missing, and the copying aborts. How could they have left a file off of the install cdrom ??? Not to mention that the Walnut Creek tech support line has been busy all day. I'm guessing I'm not the only one calling in with install problems :) BTW, The CDRom works fine under W95, so I know the host adapter/ cdrom combo is working. Any suggestions ? thanks Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 02:39:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16035 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 02:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quest.shoal.net.au (quest.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16029 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 02:39:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by quest.shoal.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA23895; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:41:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:41:01 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew To: Christopher Martin at Home cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Asking Questions In-Reply-To: <199803252129.WAA01084@mail.keyworld.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think so. I think this list is supposed to be more of a newbies getting to learn about mailing lists without offending anyone. Make sure you've had a look through the FAQ at http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html and tried searching the archives at http://www.freebsd.org/support.html There's nothing worse (ok there probably is but you get the point) than seeing heaps of traffic resolving a particular problem and then someone who has only just subscribed to questions jumps on and asks the same question again. Also be aware that the FAQ and search may not provide you with an answer even though it was discussed on the list. Cover yourself by saying that you read the FAQ and searched the archives but still couldn't find the answer. Makes it look like your trying and wins points with guru question answerers. (Is that a word?) Amdrew Perry On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > Hallo, > > Suppose, I need to ask a specific question, do I need to subscribe to > freebsd-questions first? > > Chris Martin > KeyWORLD > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 04:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29879 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eiche.pk.she.de (eiche.pk.she.de [193.98.90.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29871 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:45:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from christoph.sold@pk.she.de) Received: from [194.45.219.71] (ph071.pk.she.de [194.45.219.71]) by eiche.pk.she.de (8.8.8/8.7.6) with ESMTP id NAA19982; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:44:42 +0100 X-Sender: pu071@eiche.pk.she.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980325161155.32896@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:18:05 +0100 To: Sue Blake From: Christoph Sold Subject: Re: Let's compare notes Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 6:11 Uhr +0100 25.03.1998, Sue Blake wrote: >Right after you installed FreeBSD, logged in and sat there at >the prompt, what's the first thing you ever did? :-) installed XFree86. >Then what was the first thing you had to sit down and learn about? regular expressions. it was a bitch to do, being used to the more fancy regexp language fo Apples MPW I was used to before. >How did you you learn it? What resources (documents, friends, whatever) >did you use? How did you find the resources? "Learning by trying" -- I already knew the concepts, so I tried, being unable to finde any written hints. I used a directory full of null-length files with different names to try the regexp's out -- boy, how unhappy I was later on when I learned tcsh doesn't neccessarily agree with find in terms of regexp syntax. >Did you enjoy it? How long did it take to learn? Well, I guess learning just a news syntax is always boring. I'm still learning -- after using regexps for about two years on various 'nixes. -Christoph Sold -------------------------- Christoph "Cheasy" Sold, Am Bahnweiher 13 D-67105 Schifferstadt, Germany <*> <*> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 04:45:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA00104 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:45:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eiche.pk.she.de (eiche.pk.she.de [193.98.90.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29994 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from christoph.sold@pk.she.de) Received: from [194.45.219.71] (ph071.pk.she.de [194.45.219.71]) by eiche.pk.she.de (8.8.8/8.7.6) with ESMTP id NAA19988; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:44:56 +0100 X-Sender: pu071@eiche.pk.she.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980326103933.03367@welearn.com.au> References: <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800 <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:39:07 +0100 To: Sue Blake From: Christoph Sold Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) Cc: "John M. Purser" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 0:39 Uhr +0100 26.03.1998, Sue Blake wrote: >On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: >> On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:26 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] >> wrote: >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: [...snip...] >> > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before >> > I >> > can find something decent to pick on. > >> > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before >> > I can find something decent to pick on. > >It's not directly your fault. The software seems to be letting you down. >The result is the same: you look like you can't do it, and it gets >progressively harder to read as it's requoted. Now which software do you use? No offense intended, I'm just curious, as I'm moving my internet activities from my Mac to my FBSD box. -Christoph Sold ...using Eudora, which does some things right on the Mac. -------------------------- Christoph "Cheasy" Sold, Am Bahnweiher 13 D-67105 Schifferstadt, Germany <*> <*> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 04:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA00893 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA00885 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA02467; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:48:57 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:48:57 GMT Message-Id: <199803261248.MAA02467@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sue Blake Cc: ruth moulton , Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] In-Reply-To: <19980326061948.63584@welearn.com.au> References: <199803250858.IAA01513@muswell.demon.co.uk> <19980326061948.63584@welearn.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Disposition-notification-to: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue , > Please, if you must use Netscape or any microsoft or other nonstandard email > application, first ensure that: > 1. You have thoroughly studied http://www.lemis.com/email.html > 2. You understand what it says > 3. Your email app (or whatever) is set up to comply, and > 4. You know how to use it to ensure it complies > Sue - what do you mean by a 'non standard' email application ? - I read the document you suggested. It mentions there are RFCs which are the standards for Internet e-mail, but not which ones. People might be interested to know there are three basic standards SMTP - RFC821 - this is the mail transport protocol - it specifies how to send mail round the network - for most people it's not very interesting - but this is where the basic line length limit comes from RFC822 - this is the basic format of a mail message - it defines the headers (TO:, CC: etc) and a simple body made up of us-ascii text (i.e. the message itself). This was fine for when it was written, but nowdays we expect to be able to ship more complex messages, for example a scanned image, a word file, forward another message, a notification that a message could or couldn;t be sent, and also use other character sets than good ol' us-ascii - our friends from russia, scandinvia, spain, france, israil, japan... will tell you why! > Also make sure that it doesn't send > out HTML or any other attachments, whether it tells you it's sending them or > not. and finally we have MIME - RFC2045-2049. This defines how to encode non us-ascii text and attachments so that they can be represented in ascii and hence sent by rfc822, and also how to devide the single 822 body into multiple parts using ascii separators. (There are a few more that give further refinements to MIME). These documents are available by anonymous ftp from ds.internic.net or http://www.internic.net/ds/ RFC stands for 'request for comment', they're the documents in which the internet standards are defined. So, the point of all this verbage is that is perfectly OK to send attachments (What email.html says is don't send them unnecessarily), as long as they conform to the MIME standards. To send and receive them your email user interfaces (user agents in e-mail jargon) must be MIME enabled. I'd rather encourage the use of MIME, ultimatly it enables a much more intelligent e-mail service, not discourage it, but it does need to be adhered to properly (unlike some of the stuff I've seen from MS). I suppose the real problem is that MIME and RFC822 are both extensible and what MS do nowdays is define thier own proprietry extenstions that are legal by MIME standards, but unusable to non MS software - I'll join you in trying to ban this stuff!! ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 06:40:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16520 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.chbs.ciba.com (ns.ibo.ch [194.191.169.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA16494 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:40:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com) Received: from mailhub by gatekeeper.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA00542; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:38:05 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18008 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:37:40 +0100 (MET) X400-Received: by mta chnov-mta1 in /PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/; converted ((1) (0) (10021) (7) (1) (0) (1), (1) (0) (10021) (7) (1) (0) (6), (2) (6) (3) (4) (11)); Relayed ; 26 Mar 1998 14:36:31 +0000 X400-Received: by mta PP-BANZAI-CHBS in /PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/; Relayed ; 26 Mar 1998 15:20:46 +0100 X400-Received: by mta PPUSGR-EXSVR4 in /PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/; Relayed ; 26 Mar 1998 09:20:43 -0500 X400-Received: by mta PPUSSG-EXBH1 in /PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/; Relayed ; 26 Mar 1998 08:20:41 -0600 X400-Received: by mta PPUSSG-EXSVR1 in /PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/; Relayed ; 26 Mar 1998 08:20:41 -0600 Date: 26 Mar 1998 08:20:41 -0600 X400-Originator: neal.tillery@cp.exc.novartis.com X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=novartis/ADMD=400net/C=CH/;PPUSSG-EXSVR1-980326142041Z-2234] From: "Tillery Neal CP USSG EXC" To: "'FreeBSD Newbies'" Subject: Exchange Email Problems. Importance: normal Autoforwarded: FALSE Message-Id: <"/GUID:0724B96F06C0D111A1050000F86B13AF*"@MHS> Original-Encoded-Information-Types: (2) (6) (3) (4) (11) X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm in a bind when in comes to email. I subscribed to the list using my work email address. Unfortunately we use Exchange here. The way we receive and send mail to the Internet is using a X.400 to SMTP gateway so I can't use a standard UNIX email program. I looked repeatedly for the option to set the column length, but have had no success. I know it still truncates my messages because I've checked them with my school email account. Does anyone know where I can change this and other settings to make my messages more Internet friendly? I would like to contribute to this (and other) FreeBSD lists, but I'd like to get my email configured first. -- Neal Tillery -- neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:09:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21230 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21213 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:09:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA15392; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:08:51 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327020848.59408@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:08:48 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Tillery Neal CP USSG EXC Cc: "'FreeBSD Newbies'" Subject: Re: Exchange Email Problems. References: <"/GUID:0724B96F06C0D111A1050000F86B13AF*"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <"/GUID:0724B96F06C0D111A1050000F86B13AF*"@MHS>; from Tillery Neal CP USSG EXC on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:20:41AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:20:41AM -0600, Tillery Neal CP USSG EXC wrote: > I'm in a bind when in comes to email. I subscribed to the list using my > work email address. Unfortunately we use Exchange here. The way we > receive and send mail to the Internet is using a X.400 to SMTP gateway so > I can't use a standard UNIX email program. I looked repeatedly for the > option to set the column length, but have had no success. I know it still > truncates my messages because I've checked them with my school email > account. OK, have we got any closet Exchange users there who can lend a hand? Can you explain how it truncates messages? > Does anyone know where I can change this and other settings to make my messages > more Internet friendly? I would like to contribute to this (and other) > FreeBSD lists, but I'd like to get my email configured first. No need to wait, you'll be fine here. Our purpose for discussing these email problems is simply to identify the problems and find solutions while we're able to be relaxed about helping each other. But if you know you have problems and we can't help you, then carry on regardless. It's much more important to hear what you have to say! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:23:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24453 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:23:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amethyst.xch.net ([194.6.200.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA24426 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@xch.net) Received: from msx.xch.net by amethyst.xch.net with ESMTP id PAA02116; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:42 GMT Received: by msx.xch.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:47 -0000 Message-ID: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DDB@msx.xch.net> From: james huckle To: "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these products at the expense of resilience. I work for an X400 service providor and have to use products from ALL the major vendors, both client and server. Without doubt, MS product is both the easiest to install and the most difficult to configure/administer and remove. I don't think that it's a preqrequisite of using non-MS products to slag MS stuff. Some MS stuff is OK (suprisingly) in the workgroup/office enviroment and there is more choice of apps on MS OS. When the email/internet/networking hype/explosion dies down a little, I'm sure that the extended protocols of some vendors will win other others (see DRDOS/DOS, windows/OS2). Lets make the world a little more feature rich :) James > ---------- > From: ruth moulton[SMTP:ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 26 March 1998 12:58 > To: Sue Blake > Cc: ruth moulton; Rick Hamell; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; > ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk > Subject: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > > Sue , > > > Please, if you must use Netscape or any microsoft or other > nonstandard email > > application, first ensure that: > > 1. You have thoroughly studied http://www.lemis.com/email.html > > 2. You understand what it says > > 3. Your email app (or whatever) is set up to comply, and > > 4. You know how to use it to ensure it complies > > > > Sue - what do you mean by a 'non standard' email application ? - > > I read the document you suggested. It mentions there are RFCs which > are the standards for Internet e-mail, but not which ones. > > People might be interested to know there are three basic standards > > SMTP - RFC821 - this is the mail transport protocol - it specifies > how to send mail round the network - for most people it's not > very interesting - but this is where the basic line length limit > comes from > > RFC822 - this is the basic format of a mail message - it defines > the headers (TO:, CC: etc) and a simple body made up of us-ascii > text (i.e. the message itself). This was fine for when it was > written, but nowdays we expect to be able to ship more complex > messages, for example a scanned image, a word file, forward another > message, a notification that a message could or couldn;t be sent, > and also use other character sets than good ol' us-ascii - our > friends from russia, scandinvia, spain, france, israil, japan... > will tell you why! > > > Also make sure that it doesn't send > > out HTML or any other attachments, whether it tells you it's > sending them or > > not. > > and finally we have > > MIME - RFC2045-2049. This defines how to encode non us-ascii text and > attachments so that they can be represented in ascii and hence > sent by rfc822, and also how to devide the single 822 body into > multiple parts using ascii separators. > > (There are a few more that give further refinements to MIME). > > These documents are available by anonymous ftp from ds.internic.net > or http://www.internic.net/ds/ > > RFC stands for 'request for comment', they're the documents in which > the internet standards are defined. > > So, the point of all this verbage is that is perfectly OK to > send attachments (What email.html says is don't send them > unnecessarily), as long as they conform to the MIME standards. > > To send and receive them your email user interfaces (user agents in > e-mail jargon) must be MIME enabled. > > I'd rather encourage the use of MIME, ultimatly it enables a > much more intelligent e-mail service, not discourage it, but it > does need to be adhered to properly (unlike some of the stuff > I've seen from MS). I suppose the real problem is that MIME and > RFC822 are both extensible and what MS do nowdays is define thier > own proprietry extenstions that are legal by MIME standards, but > unusable to non MS software - I'll join you in trying to ban > this stuff!! > > ruth > > -- > ================================================ > Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk > Consultant > > 65 Tetherdown, > London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 > > -- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:26:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25309 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25261 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:26:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA13105; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013101; Thu Mar 26 07:24:06 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06831; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:24:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803261524.HAA06831@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk, sue@welearn.com.au Subject: Re: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:48:57 GMT >From: ruth moulton >People might be interested to know there are three basic standards >...[much good information elided -- dhw] >>Also make sure that it doesn't send >>out HTML or any other attachments, whether it tells you it's sending them or >>not. >MIME - RFC2045-2049. This defines how to encode non us-ascii text and >attachments so that they can be represented in ascii and hence >sent by rfc822, and also how to devide the single 822 body into >multiple parts using ascii separators. >So, the point of all this verbage is that is perfectly OK to >send attachments (What email.html says is don't send them >unnecessarily), as long as they conform to the MIME standards. I will take this opportunity to emphasize a point Ms Moulton made below: sending MIME ("attachments") is, in general, only appropriate & acceptable if the intended recipient(s) have the means for dealing with the format(s) used... >I'd rather encourage the use of MIME, ultimatly it enables a >much more intelligent e-mail service, not discourage it, but it >does need to be adhered to properly (unlike some of the stuff >I've seen from MS). I suppose the real problem is that MIME and >RFC822 are both extensible and what MS do nowdays is define thier >own proprietry extenstions that are legal by MIME standards, but >unusable to non MS software - I'll join you in trying to ban >this stuff!! ...as a case in point. I subscribe to some mailing lists (and I'm not referring to this one!) where MIME is not welcome -- period. Its use after a warning is enough to get one summarily unsubscribed (and the lists in question tend to be "closed" -- the only folks who can send contributions to the list are subscribers). And I freely confess that the MUA (Mail User Agent -- vs. MTA) I use is not MIME-aware. At this point in my life, I've only been using email seriously since 1986, and I don't get so much MIME mail that it's worth the hassle for me. The occasional piece I get, I either try to figure out, respond with a request to the sender to use plain text, or delete unread, depending on circumstances. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:43:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28394 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:43:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28292 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:43:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA15500; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:43:29 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327024325.13610@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:43:25 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: ruth moulton Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803250858.IAA01513@muswell.demon.co.uk> <19980326061948.63584@welearn.com.au> <199803261248.MAA02467@muswell.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803261248.MAA02467@muswell.demon.co.uk>; from ruth moulton on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 12:48:57PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 12:48:57PM +0000, ruth moulton wrote: > Sue , > > > Please, if you must use Netscape or any microsoft or other nonstandard email > > application, first ensure that: > > 1. You have thoroughly studied http://www.lemis.com/email.html > > 2. You understand what it says > > 3. Your email app (or whatever) is set up to comply, and > > 4. You know how to use it to ensure it complies > > > > Sue - what do you mean by a 'non standard' email application ? - An application which may do Internet email, but is largely concerned with other tasks, such as using proprietary methods to communicate preferentially with others of its kind, or has another form of communication as its primary purpose, eg web browsing or news reading. Thanks for the notes on the RFCs and their location. It's good to have this info handy. > So, the point of all this verbage is that is perfectly OK to > send attachments (What email.html says is don't send them > unnecessarily), as long as they conform to the MIME standards. Quite so. To send and receive email, one should, as an absolute minimum, conform to the standards. Much modern software doesn't do a very good job of that, or needs significant user intervention in order to make it do so. I'm pretty sure that the ability to receive MIME is optional. But that's not the only consideration. If our purpose is to communicate then let's do whatever will enhance that communication without stepping outside of the parameters set by the protocol, the established culture of the audience, the resources available and the purpose of the communication. Adhering to standards is only the minimum acceptable behaviour. I don't know to what extent email attachments are technically right or wrong, and whilever we welcome the diversity that makes up the Internet I don't care much. Consideration for others leads me to avoid them except between consenting adults in private. Now before some of you go running off feeling "spoken to", let me clear something up. I'm no better or worse than any of you, and nor are my opinions. The only difference between you lot and me is that I organised this mailing list and my penance is some unpaid work each day to keep it doing what you say you want it to do. I guess that makes me more stupid than anyone else here :-) So please, don't take what this outspoken newbie says as being the One Truth. While people can make sensible decisions for themselves nobody should have to tell them what to do. Suggestions more sensible than mine are always very welcome, even if it takes a little while to teach me that they're right. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:57:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02028 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01960 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA15547; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:56:15 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327025609.38906@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:56:10 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: james huckle Cc: "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DDB@msx.xch.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DDB@msx.xch.net>; from james huckle on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 03:23:45PM -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 03:23:45PM -0000, james huckle wrote: > Hi, > > I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO > usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to > support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these > products at the expense of resilience. I don't think the thrust of these software complaints is necessarily anti-microsoft only. Our issue is the particular software and what it does. Claris, for example, produces software which blatently disregards standards and encourages their customers to believe they're doing the right thing. I find this approach reprehensible, no matter which company does it. I don't like paying any software company to make me look a fool. Many different companies have tried. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 07:57:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02085 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02035 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:57:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA13356 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013354; Thu Mar 26 07:56:32 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06936 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803261556.HAA06936@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From: james huckle >Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:45 -0000 >I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO >usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to >support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these >products at the expense of resilience. >... Granted, I've only been subscribed to this list for about a week, but I don't recall seeing anything that I would consider "MS bashing" in it, let alone in this thread. If you want to see MS bashing, take a look at some of the "advocacy" newsgroups in USENET. As for using MS products... well, folks make choices. My choice is "no MS" -- a significant reason I left a previous employer (now defunct) is that they decided to try to port their product to an MS environment, and I decline to support such things. [Please note that I am writing as an individual, who in no way represents that his perspectives have any given correlation with any other entity.] >Lets make the world a little more feature rich :) I'd rather have things work first, and add (appropriate) features carefully... so things continue to work. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 08:40:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11549 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11527 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:40:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA15700; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:39:58 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327033955.45853@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:39:55 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Christoph Sold Cc: "John M. Purser" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) References: <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; <01BD57F8.78EF5A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> <19980326103933.03367@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Christoph Sold on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 12:39:07PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 12:39:07PM +0100, Christoph Sold wrote: > At 0:39 Uhr +0100 26.03.1998, Sue Blake wrote: > >On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 02:15:24PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > >> On Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:26 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > >> wrote: > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 01:11:14PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > [...snip...] > >> > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > >> > I > >> > can find something decent to pick on. > > > >> > Hey, that's no fair test! You'll have to quote and reply to this before > >> > I can find something decent to pick on. > > > >It's not directly your fault. The software seems to be letting you down. > >The result is the same: you look like you can't do it, and it gets > >progressively harder to read as it's requoted. > > Now which software do you use? No offense intended, I'm just curious, as > I'm moving my internet activities from my Mac to my FBSD box. > > -Christoph Sold > ...using Eudora, which does some things right on the Mac. Me? I use mutt. It seems to be popular these days. You can usually tell what software people use by looking at the message headers, the extra ones that are usually kept hidden for convenience during normal reading. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 08:43:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12286 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:43:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12279 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:43:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta168.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.168]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02396 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:43:31 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5893.418C6A40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: One step forward.... Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:43:29 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, Just a progress report. I installed FreeBSD Saturday (2.2.2). I had a spare disk (EIDE 814 megs) and the Walnut creek CD set. I had installed this about 6 months ago but gave up as I just couldn't seem to DO anything with this mysterious system. Well I've been reading a lot since then so Saturday I decided to give it another whirl. The install went smoothly (they always do!) and again I was left with a couple of account names, a command prompt and no idea about what to do next. I played around with ls and the man pages and cal. Fun stuff but it gets old fast! I switched back to Win95, logged into the FreeBSD website and printed out the entire FreeBSD handbook on an Okidata 391. This takes a while and was still printing when I went to bed that night. The next morning I ran down to a local bookstore (Borders in Salem Oregon) and was stunned to find The Walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD 2.2.5 with new manual and 4 CDs. I bought it ASAP, hauled it home and installed it. Once again, no problems. I started looking through the new manual and was amazed to find actual directions for how to do things like set up a desktop and connect to the Internet. If you haven't seen the latest manual then I think you're really missing something, especially for a newbie! I figured that the easiest thing I could possibly do is load and run a game. Couldn't be that big a deal right? I decided on Doom because unlike 99.9% of the rest of the ports collection I had at least heard of it before. Turns out you need Lynux emulation to run Doom. No problem, there's a chapter on that in the manual. Followed the directions and that's when I found out that my CD was a "Device Not Configured". Well that's real helpful. I spent three full days trying different things, whining to the newsgroup ...FreeBSD.Misc, and combing the archives before I ran across a line that said the /CD-ROM was a separate file system and had to be mounted. I mounted it and boom I could read my CD. That happened this morning. I used add_pkg to add the lynux libraries then tried the next step in the emulation directions and found that the directory I was trying to cd to didn't exist. I did eventually find a similar directory but the make there can't find lynux_lib.tar.gz (I think) and it really really wants it. It even tries to got the FreeBSD ftp site but since I was trying to set up the game to get enough confidence to set up the internet portion it can't dial out. I've tried 5 or 6 other things (cussing, screaming, spitting, begging, tantrums, and threats) before economic necessity drove me to work where I promptly sat down and killed time writing this letter. As Dilbert said "What did people do to look busy before computers?" Well that's my response to Sue's "First time..." letter. I guess until I actually accomplish what I set out to do on some level it will still be my first time. On the brighter side the pine e-mail program came right up and if I ever get to the point where I can connect to my ISP I should have no trouble responding to this group in proper fashion. John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 08:59:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14361 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14323 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA14010 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014008; Thu Mar 26 08:58:31 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07126 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:58:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:58:25 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803261658.IAA07126@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let's Try that Again! :-) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:39:55 +1100 >From: Sue Blake >You can usually tell what software people use by looking at the message >headers, the extra ones that are usually kept hidden for convenience during >normal reading. Well... some mailers (MUAs) create headers (such as the "X-Mailer: mutt") in their messages. Others (such as /usr/bin/mail, which I use) don't. Then again, trusting any such headers to match anyone's perception of reality can be an interesting exercise.... (The Solaris 2 version of /usr/bin/Mail allows one to edit the headers; results of such an exercise are left to readers' imaginations.) And, of course, it's possible to feed (fairly arbitrary) text to sendmail for delivery; for an example, take a look at Larry Wall's "Rnmail" script.... (part of the "trn" package) :-) david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 10:17:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28997 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28963 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA00424; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:36:24 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:36:24 GMT Message-Id: <199803261736.RAA00424@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sue Blake Cc: james huckle , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] In-Reply-To: <19980327025609.38906@welearn.com.au> References: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DDB@msx.xch.net> <19980327025609.38906@welearn.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue > I find this approach reprehensible, no matter which company does it. > I don't like paying any software company to make me look a fool. > Many different companies have tried. another point of using standards is so that we can all communicate, no matter whose software we're using. It's fine for Claris or MS to do their own thing, and maybe they do it better, but it doesn't help the rest of us using other o/s or software if they do it * in a proprietry way, * do not openly publish what it is they're doing * re-do functionallity rather than participate in the global standards process to get the open standards right etc etc. e.g. I seem to get application/ms-tnef body parts from MS Outlook which I believe may be receipt notifications, why doesn't it use Message Dispostion Notifications which are defined openly in a draft RFC - (which also contain human readable and machine readable parts) and so on Ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 10:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01642 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01628 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta170.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.170]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05599 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:34:56 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD58A2.D1AF1320.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:34:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I just visited an interesting site I found in the newsgroup comp.unix.freebsd.misc. The site is http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ and has a "Find your OS" quiz. Don't put too much stock in it, it picked FreeBSD for me and my trials and troubles are public knowledge in this group! Interesting view of alternative operating systems though. John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 10:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04880 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04872 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-5.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.54]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA19486; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:57:58 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:57:39 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: james huckle cc: "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] In-Reply-To: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DDB@msx.xch.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, james huckle wrote: > Hi, > > I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO > usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to > support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these > products at the expense of resilience. > I have done some MS bashing in the past, pretty much just because I don't like monopolies. Don't think they're fair. But, (I maybe ignorant on the subject) I have not seen any drivers or support on FreeBSD for all the cool things that Windows 95/NT can support. Microsoft has support for USB, alot of video cards, TV cards, soundcards, etc. And it's easy as hell to install. I often think to myself, "Considering that most free unices doesn't support all the cool new things, how can I explain to a Windows user that Unix is better?" I came across this when trying to explain to a computer vendor that I didn't want or need the USB and the ATI All-In-Wonder-Pro because the OS that I run doesn't support it. He asked what I ran, and I said Linux. But then again, maybe there is support for all the kewl new harware and I just don't know it. *shrug* That's where I feel that I lie Ignorant...aww hell I'm ignorant on alot of things, every one usually is. I feel that ignorance is just an excuse, or reason, to learn what you don't know about. :) Peace, Bear > I work for an X400 service providor and have to use products from ALL > the major vendors, both client and server. Without doubt, MS product is > both the easiest to install and the most difficult to > configure/administer and remove. > > I don't think that it's a preqrequisite of using non-MS products to slag > MS stuff. Some MS stuff is OK (suprisingly) in the workgroup/office > enviroment and there is more choice of apps on MS OS. > > When the email/internet/networking hype/explosion dies down a little, > I'm sure that the extended protocols of some vendors will win other > others (see DRDOS/DOS, windows/OS2). > > Lets make the world a little more feature rich :) > > James =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 13:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25351 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25337 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:15:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA16414; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:14:48 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327081443.17249@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:14:43 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: One step forward.... References: <01BD5893.418C6A40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD5893.418C6A40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:43:29AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:43:29AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > I figured that the easiest thing I could possibly do is load and run a game. > Couldn't be that big a deal right? Famous last words :-) > I spent three full days trying different things, whining to the newsgroup > ...FreeBSD.Misc, and combing the archives before I ran across a line that said > the /CD-ROM was a separate file system and had to be mounted. I mounted it and > boom I could read my CD. Ooohh, isn't it awful when that happens, slog, slog, lots of helpful advice, and it turns out to be something so "simple and obvious"... to everyone else! > That happened this morning. I used add_pkg to add the lynux libraries > then tried the next step in the emulation directions and found that the > directory I was trying to cd to didn't exist. I did eventually find a > similar directory but the make there can't find lynux_lib.tar.gz (I think) > and it really really wants it. Does that involve /cdrom and mounting your CD there, perchance? :-) (BTW, unmounting is discussed in the errata, and details of its location are hidden right at the beginning of the book, where none of us thought to look) > It even tries to got the FreeBSD ftp site but since I was trying to set up > the game to get enough confidence to set up the internet portion it can't > dial out. Setting up PPP should be fairly straightforward, and there's a lot of extra documentation around. Why don't you work through the PPP section in the book first and see how you go? Setting up Doom could be a lot trickier. > On the brighter side the pine e-mail program came right up and if I ever get to > the point where I can connect to my ISP I should have no trouble responding to > this group in proper fashion. As we saw in your demos (thanks for that!), the problems occur mainly when deep into a conversation with multiple quotes. You should be able to edit yourself out of any mess, now that we know what tricks it plays. Did any other microsoft users here have any ideas for you? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 15:52:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14572 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:52:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14552 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id JAA15461; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:52:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma015454; Fri, 27 Mar 98 09:51:57 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11979 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:51:53 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA125456309; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:51:49 +1100 Message-Id: <351AEA16.AF290422@scitec.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:51:50 +1100 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One step forward.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > I spent three full days trying different things, whining to the newsgroup > > ...FreeBSD.Misc, and combing the archives before I ran across a line that said > > the /CD-ROM was a separate file system and had to be mounted. I mounted it and > > boom I could read my CD. > > Ooohh, isn't it awful when that happens, slog, slog, lots of helpful advice, > and it turns out to be something so "simple and obvious"... to everyone else! I run the KDE desktop on which I have setup a CD icon on the desktop. So now I simply click on the icon and it auto-mounts the CD for me, then gives me a file browser pointing to the CD. To unmount I have to right click the icon and select unmount though. KDE is in the ports collection and is well worth the time to set up. I also seem to recall a while ago that it's possible to configure the NFS automounter "amd" to work with a CDROM. So basically you would cd into /cdrom and "amd" would notice this and automatically mount the CD for you. Once you stop using the CD for some timeout period it would unmount the CD again. But I believe that getting it going is big magic given the lack of amd information. The true power of Unix is that all these things are possible. The "problem" with unix is that they are not enabled by default (to retain traditional operation). Hopefully something like KDE will come along and make a difference. Cheers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 16:18:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19745 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19734 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16960; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:18:10 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327111804.21299@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:18:05 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Andrew Cc: Christopher Martin at Home , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Asking Questions References: <199803252129.WAA01084@mail.keyworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 09:41:01PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 09:41:01PM +1100, Andrew wrote: > There's nothing worse (ok there probably is but you get the point) than > seeing heaps of traffic resolving a particular problem and then someone > who has only just subscribed to questions jumps on and asks the same > question again. Also be aware that the FAQ and search may not provide you > with an answer even though it was discussed on the list. Cover yourself by > saying that you read the FAQ and searched the archives but still couldn't > find the answer. Makes it look like your trying and wins points with guru > question answerers. (Is that a word?) You can post to freebsd-questions without subscribing first but you'll have a much better idea of what/how/whether to ask if you have already been subscribed to freebsd-questions for a while. Of course you have to use the handbook, FAQ, and archive search either way, but that doesn't always catch all of the recent questions you'd see if you were subscribed. Everyone here should be interested enough to subscribe to freebsd-questions unless that's difficult (and I know it is for some). There is a lot of mail but that means there's a lot to learn from. You'll pick up info from the easier questions, and the difficult or irrelevant questions are good for getting ideas about how to ask for help. You'll also get an idea of the volume and quality of the mail that confronts the highly skilled volunteers who help out there when and if they enjoy doing it. Tip: It's surprising how many times someone else asks about a problem just as you were wondering how to fix it yourself. I've managed to hide a lot of my goofs by waiting a few hours for someone else to confess the same thing :-) A lot of us, me included, find it hard to know what makes a question good or bad. Maybe if we pool our thoughts and experiences we can sort some of this out together? Feel free to let the others know (gently) if you agree or disagree with what they suggest, and why. Some ideas to start us off: If you were advising another newbie about how to ask a question, what would you suggest to help them write a good question that'll get a good answer? What would you warn them against doing? When someone asks a question really badly, what do you think is their reason? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 16:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20267 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20261 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16979; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:21:27 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327112124.48288@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:21:25 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Find the OS to suit your personality References: <01BD58A2.D1AF1320.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD58A2.D1AF1320.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 10:34:51AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 10:34:51AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > Hello, > > I just visited an interesting site I found in the newsgroup > comp.unix.freebsd.misc. The site is > http://www.cnet.com/Content/Reviews/Compare/AltOS/ and has a "Find your OS" > quiz. Don't put too much stock in it, it picked FreeBSD for me and my trials > and troubles are public knowledge in this group! > Interesting view of alternative operating systems though. I couldn't make the form submit with lynx, but it was fun anyway. Maybe we should use that as an entrance exam :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 16:32:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21345 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:32:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21310 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:31:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA18788 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018786; Thu Mar 26 16:31:09 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01631 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:31:09 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803270031.QAA01631@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Asking Questions Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:18:05 +1100 >From: Sue Blake >Everyone here should be interested enough to subscribe to freebsd-questions >unless that's difficult (and I know it is for some).... An intermediate approach is to subscribe to freebsd-questions-digest. Each digest is fairly big, but there are fewer interruptions.... :-} david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 16:43:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24045 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from discover.wright.edu (discover.wright.edu [130.108.128.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24035 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:43:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from serega@bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dup152092.wright.edu [130.108.152.92]) by discover.wright.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24090; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:43:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351AF63F.7E1F407@bigfoot.com> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:43:44 -0500 From: Sergei Shayevich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Saunders CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One step forward.... References: <351AEA16.AF290422@scitec.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I run the KDE desktop on which I have setup a CD icon on the desktop. > So now I simply click on the icon and it auto-mounts the CD for me, > then gives me a file browser pointing to the CD. To unmount I have to > right click the icon and select unmount though. KDE is in the ports > collection and is well worth the time to set up. I've been wanting to setup KDE desktop for a couple of months now. I've seen it in action and it seems like a really neat thing. I browsed the ports collection for the past hour or so, but haven't been able to find it. Could you point me in its direction? Thanks, Sergei To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 26 16:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25117 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:50:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25103 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:50:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id KAA19080; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:50:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma019060; Fri, 27 Mar 98 10:50:02 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12691; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:50:01 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA142819800; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:50:00 +1100 Message-Id: <351AF7B9.8294C7AA@scitec.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:50:01 +1100 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sergei Shayevich Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One step forward.... References: <351AEA16.AF290422@scitec.com.au> <351AF63F.7E1F407@bigfoot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sergei Shayevich wrote: > > > I run the KDE desktop on which I have setup a CD icon on the desktop. > > So now I simply click on the icon and it auto-mounts the CD for me, > > then gives me a file browser pointing to the CD. To unmount I have to > > right click the icon and select unmount though. KDE is in the ports > > collection and is well worth the time to set up. > > I've been wanting to setup KDE desktop for a couple of months now. I've seen it in > action and it seems like a really neat thing. I browsed the ports collection for the > past hour or so, but haven't been able to find it. Could you point me in its > direction? The trick with the ports collection is the search facility. cd /usr/ports make search key=kde You will notice that several kde packages get listed. You have to build them in a certain order. I think the first is kdesupport, then kdelibs, then kdebase. Other kde packages are optional (but I recommend them) such as kdegames etc. Get yourself connected to the 'net, cd into the directory and type make install. Cheers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:05:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07851 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07845 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp80.keyworld.net [194.21.164.143]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA02044 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:01:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199803271101.MAA02044@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: Subject: Re: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:00:47 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, I am also aware of ICL's Teamware which seems to do the same... Strips attachments from emails prior to distributing them internally in the Teamware workgroup. Has anyone had any similar experiences? Btw, I'm using MS Internet Mail. Can anyone give mee feedback re. whether the text is also mirrored in a duplicate attachment? How can I get people to stop appending this junk? I humbly ask without wishing to digress further... Chris ---------- > I subscribe to some mailing lists (and I'm not referring to this one!) > where MIME is not welcome -- period. Its use after a warning is enough > to get one summarily unsubscribed (and the lists in question tend to be > "closed" -- the only folks who can send contributions to the list are > subscribers). > > And I freely confess that the MUA (Mail User Agent -- vs. MTA) I use is > not MIME-aware. At this point in my life, I've only been using email > seriously since 1986, and I don't get so much MIME mail that it's worth > the hassle for me. The occasional piece I get, I either try to figure > out, respond with a request to the sender to use plain text, or delete > unread, depending on circumstances. > > Cheers, > david > -- > David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:06:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08133 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08094 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:06:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp80.keyworld.net [194.21.164.143]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA02047; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:01:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199803271101.MAA02047@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: "Sue Blake" , "james huckle" Cc: "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:05:29 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there a lobby group of users out there to ensure certain basic standards are adhered to? I think this is a quality issue. ISO defines quality as suitability for the job. You dinna buy a Rolls Royce for delivering furniture. Same with software. Unfortunately, I thnk software quality has been degrading through poor programming discipline and sheer uunscrupulous marketing and business practices resulting in closed system engineering. I am all in favour of a good idea, but I find extra mouse clicks a real pain... Shall we form a lobby group? Chris ---------- > From: Sue Blake > To: james huckle > Cc: 'FreeBSD Newbie Submission' > Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 4:56 PM > > On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 03:23:45PM -0000, james huckle wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO > > usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to > > support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these > > products at the expense of resilience. > > I don't think the thrust of these software complaints is necessarily > anti-microsoft only. Our issue is the particular software and what it does. > > Claris, for example, produces software which blatently disregards standards > and encourages their customers to believe they're doing the right thing. > I find this approach reprehensible, no matter which company does it. > I don't like paying any software company to make me look a fool. > Many different companies have tried. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09236 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08991 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp80.keyworld.net [194.21.164.143]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA02860; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:14:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199803271114.MAA02860@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: "David Wolfskill" , Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:07:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Spot on... Use the KISS principal. Unfortunately the big-boyz are making it extremely difficult for the professionals in the field to convince ignorant customers that that is the way the system works. After all computer systems are not washing machines! :-) Chris ---------- > From: David Wolfskill > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 4:56 PM > > >From: james huckle > >Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:45 -0000 > > >I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO > >usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to > >support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these > >products at the expense of resilience. > > >... > > Granted, I've only been subscribed to this list for about a week, but I > don't recall seeing anything that I would consider "MS bashing" in it, > let alone in this thread. If you want to see MS bashing, take a look at > some of the "advocacy" newsgroups in USENET. > > As for using MS products... well, folks make choices. My choice is "no > MS" -- a significant reason I left a previous employer (now defunct) is > that they decided to try to port their product to an MS environment, and > I decline to support such things. > > [Please note that I am writing as an individual, who in no way > represents that his perspectives have any given correlation with any > other entity.] > > >Lets make the world a little more feature rich :) > > I'd rather have things work first, and add (appropriate) features > carefully... so things continue to work. > > david > -- > David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:36:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10853 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10810 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:36:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA18772; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:35:30 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980327223526.14431@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:35:26 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Christopher Martin at Home Cc: james huckle , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803271101.MAA02047@mail.keyworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803271101.MAA02047@mail.keyworld.net>; from Christopher Martin at Home on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 12:05:29PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 12:05:29PM +0100, Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > Is there a lobby group of users out there to ensure certain basic standards > are adhered to? Actually it was a very effective lobby group who forced the companies to produce bad software. Who made up that lobby group? Everyone who ever spent money on the software and didn't demand a refund. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:37:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11150 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.defraz.org (root@defraz.org [208.136.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11106 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@centrisys.com) Received: from erebus.artificers.net (SA5399-1-43.stic.net [207.71.50.43]) by dns.defraz.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA05000; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:39:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:34:35 -0600 (CST) From: BJ Bell X-Sender: brian@erebus.artificers.net To: Joey Garcia cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my first time *sniff* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Joey Garcia wrote: > Which console messages? I always hated the stupid message that would The very first line in /etc/syslog.conf is the line that sends stuff to the console, I just delete it. Don't mess too much with that file other then the first line though unless you really know what your doing. - BJ > occur everytime I logged in as root on another virtual terminal. Is this > the message(s) that you are referring to? If so, how did you disable > them? > > Bear > > > > > =================================================== > Joseph Garcia > Downey, CA > bear@pacificnet.net > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > =================================================== > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, BJ Bell wrote: > > > Sue, > > > > I remember it like it was yesterday... > > > > I had read all of the manual and howto already and did a kernel > > compilation for my system. Then I disabled those annoying console messages > > and added some more virtual consoles. It was all a fairly frustrating > > processes because I just figured it out on my own with the little bit of > > documentation and man pages. I like the kernel configuration for fbsd much > > better then linux :P. Anyways, that was my first time...*sniff* :P > > > > remanicently (got ispell?), > > BJ > > > > ---- > > > > No Compromise (No Regrets) > > > > BJ Bell (aka Artificer) > > brian@centrisys.com > > > > ---- > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > ---- No Compromise (No Regrets) BJ Bell (aka Artificer) brian@centrisys.com ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 03:53:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13537 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:53:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13531 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:53:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp75.keyworld.net [194.21.164.138]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA04453; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:49:12 +0100 Message-Id: <199803271149.MAA04453@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: "james huckle" , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:51:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Actually it was a very effective lobby group who forced the companies to > produce bad software. Who made up that lobby group? Everyone who ever spent > money on the software and didn't demand a refund. So who were they? I wasn't around when it happened. Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 04:48:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19584 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amethyst.xch.net ([194.6.200.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA19567 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:48:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@xch.net) Received: from msx.xch.net by amethyst.xch.net with ESMTP id MAA14653; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:48:27 GMT Received: by msx.xch.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:48:26 -0000 Message-ID: <4B5AD1A1DC97D1118E720060976D80F40DE0@msx.xch.net> From: james huckle To: "'Christopher Martin at Home'" , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: RE: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:48:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris, I couldn't agree more with your comments about an apparent lack of software design discipline. With the exponential growth in the power of even a home system, programmers can become lazy thinking and slack in code optimisation (I know I do at times). 6-7 years ago you could have run an office on a couple of 286's with 10M drives and 256K (woo!) of memory. Todays 'modern' apps seem to just about the same (accounts, spreadsheet, fax etc) with a machine that makes the Apollo missions look a bit hobbyist ;) When it really matters, do you need 'real time' spell checking? Sure I use these products (sending this using Outlook and Exchange Server), but I use vi AND Pagemill to write webpages, Outlook/Eudora/etc AND command line 'mail'. Perhaps we should start adding "Get Vi/Emacs/Joe now' on our webpages? :) As for standards - MS are the standard ;) James > ---------- > From: Christopher Martin at Home[SMTP:psycho@keyworld.net] > Sent: 27 March 1998 11:11 > To: Sue Blake; james huckle > Cc: 'FreeBSD Newbie Submission' > Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > > Is there a lobby group of users out there to ensure certain basic > standards > are adhered to? > > I think this is a quality issue. > > ISO defines quality as suitability for the job. > > You dinna buy a Rolls Royce for delivering furniture. > > Same with software. > > Unfortunately, I thnk software quality has been degrading through poor > programming discipline > and sheer uunscrupulous marketing and business practices resulting in > closed system engineering. > > I am all in favour of a good idea, but I find extra mouse clicks a > real > pain... > > Shall we form a lobby group? > > Chris > > ---------- > > From: Sue Blake > > To: james huckle > > Cc: 'FreeBSD Newbie Submission' > > Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > > Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 4:56 PM > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 03:23:45PM -0000, james huckle wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product > IMHO > > > usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have > to > > > support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use > these > > > products at the expense of resilience. > > > > I don't think the thrust of these software complaints is necessarily > > anti-microsoft only. Our issue is the particular software and what > it > does. > > > > Claris, for example, produces software which blatently disregards > standards > > and encourages their customers to believe they're doing the right > thing. > > I find this approach reprehensible, no matter which company does it. > > I don't like paying any software company to make me look a fool. > > Many different companies have tried. > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > -*Sue*- > > > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 05:31:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26228 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:31:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA26222 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:31:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from radan.demon.co.uk ([158.152.75.22]) by post.mail.demon.net id ab2022211; 27 Mar 98 12:54 GMT Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA04390; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:50:39 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12509; Fri, 27 Mar 98 12:50:37 GMT Message-Id: <351BA08B.EA5FF6C2@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:50:19 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Christopher Martin at Home" Cc: Sue Blake , james huckle , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803271101.MAA02047@mail.keyworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > > Is there a lobby group of users out there to ensure certain basic standards > are adhered to? > If there isn't, then there should be, if only to try and stem the creeping malaise that is Microsoft from imposing it's "standards" on us all. One of the problems though is the definition of "basic standards", indeed standards in general. > I think this is a quality issue. > > ISO defines quality as suitability for the job. > > You dinna buy a Rolls Royce for delivering furniture. > > Same with software. > > Unfortunately, I thnk software quality has been degrading through poor > programming discipline > and sheer uunscrupulous marketing and business practices resulting in > closed system engineering. > The phrase that springs to mind here is - "Well-marketed mediocrity will triumph over technical excellence every time", as Windows proves! > I am all in favour of a good idea, but I find extra mouse clicks a real > pain... > > Shall we form a lobby group? > > Chris > -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 06:32:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05973 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05926 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp67.keyworld.net [194.21.164.130]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA12763; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:27:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199803271427.PAA12763@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: "Mark Ovens" Cc: "Sue Blake" , "james huckle" , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:31:38 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > If there isn't, then there should be, if only to try and stem the > creeping malaise that is Microsoft from imposing it's "standards" on us > all. One of the problems though is the definition of "basic standards", > indeed standards in general. > > > I think this is a quality issue. > > By standards, I mean modularity but job-determined functionality, design etc. that result in a tool doing what it is meant to do for the volume it is meant to handle and as economically as possible with minimal user confusion and training require. I.e. Defininitely nothing less, but nothing more for Pete's sake. I can assure you from my experience with Win 95 app first time users is that the "easy to use" gui win 95 presents now has such a number of options and menu commands that it takes even myself (who I consider to be an experienced intuitive user) ages to find the right option. Then you find that it is just there for mkt purposes but it is limited anyway e.g. inbox filtering of MS Internet Mail. Another problem is the gui is losing the reason behhind its inception: user psychology studies for best intuitive interpretation of menubars are being defeated because people get used to a particular tool location in a menu in v.3.0 only to find it is somewhere else in v.4.0. When will they learn? So why not create modular apps with a master config file which only need new add-ons when really requested: a Unix system basically ;-) I think the only problem with Unix is the admin side. The canned disks seem to simplify things. Only problem with installation is usually hardware. Also the conf editing can be assisted with some kind of control panel (simple though) and some better documentation! Like UNIX for donkeys. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 07:25:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13482 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:25:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [193.195.0.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13473 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:25:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from radan.demon.co.uk ([158.152.75.22]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1025773; 27 Mar 98 15:22 GMT Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA04896; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:22:06 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17200; Fri, 27 Mar 98 15:22:05 GMT Message-Id: <351BC40B.6C272B56@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:21:48 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Christopher Martin at Home" Cc: Sue Blake , james huckle , "'FreeBSD Newbie Submission'" Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803271427.PAA12763@mail.keyworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > > > > > If there isn't, then there should be, if only to try and stem the > > creeping malaise that is Microsoft from imposing it's "standards" on us > > all. One of the problems though is the definition of "basic standards", > > indeed standards in general. > > > > > I think this is a quality issue. > > > > > By standards, I mean modularity but job-determined functionality, design > etc. that result in a tool doing what it is meant to do for the volume it > is meant to handle and as economically as possible with minimal user > confusion and training require. I.e. Defininitely nothing less, but nothing > more for Pete's sake. > > I can assure you from my experience with Win 95 app first time users is > that the "easy to use" gui win 95 presents now has such a number of options > and menu commands that it takes even myself (who I consider to be an > experienced intuitive user) ages to find the right option. Then you find > that it is just there for mkt purposes but it is limited anyway e.g. inbox > filtering of MS Internet Mail. Another problem is the gui is losing the > reason behhind its inception: user psychology studies for best intuitive > interpretation of menubars are being defeated because people get used to a > particular tool location in a menu in v.3.0 only to find it is somewhere > else in v.4.0. > > When will they learn? > Absolutely correct. The original idea of the GUI was to provide an intuitive interface that removed the need for users to learn large numbers of (often complex) keyboard commands (remember WordStar?). However software, particularly PC s/w, has got so complex that it needs several tool bars (look at Word 97) full of buttons which, in Windows, are 16x16 pixels. So, how do you create meaningful, intuitive 'pictures' to go on these buttons for all the functions they represent in just 16x16 pixels? Answer, you can't, so MS invents 'tool tips' which mean that now when the cursor moves over a button a little box pops up with *words* in it which, to my mind at least, defeats the object of a GRAPHICAL interface. Sun's Open Look interface, which I sit in front of all day, has words on the buttons instead of 'pictures', OK so that means it's not strictly graphical, but learning things is a hell of a lot easier. When I first started using e-mail I used mailtool and never had any trouble achieving what I wanted to, but if the buttons were Windows style how could you create pictures that could intuitively represent the subtle differences between "Reply to sender", "Reply to sender, quoted", "Reply to all", "Reply to all, quoted" in 16x16 pixels? > I think the only problem with Unix is the admin side. I guess that depends on the environment you're in. In a work environment not having GUI functions for all the admin tasks (e.g. Control Panel) is a pretty good way of preventing 'ordinary' users messing about with things. Most Unixes (commercial ones at least) do have GUI tools for admin though - admintool, sam, smit etc. so they are there if you want them but they don't appear on the desktop by default, unlike Windows. -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 07:51:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17036 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17019 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta167.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.167]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA29769 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:51:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:51:57 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5955.3775C840.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: FW: One step forward.... Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:51:54 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [John M. Purser] On Thursday, March 26, 1998 1:15 PM, Sue Blake [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] wrote: > On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:43:29AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > Famous last words :-) Oh they won't be my last ones by an means! I will whip this big ugly hairy bastard if it's the last thing I do! At least with the new manual and this mailing list I should be able to. > > Ooohh, isn't it awful when that happens, slog, slog, lots of helpful advice, > and it turns out to be something so "simple and obvious"... to everyone else! > I think there will be lots of those. I just don't know enough to guess right yet. > > Does that involve /cdrom and mounting your CD there, perchance? :-) > (BTW, unmounting is discussed in the errata, and details of its location are > hidden right at the beginning of the book, where none of us thought to look) > No the directory specified in the manual is /usr/src/ports/emulators/linux_lib and the one I found was /usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib. I would very much like to know if any other 2.2.5 users have the one mentioned in the manual. When I switched to /usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib I ran the make command as the book specified "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes make all install" but received the error message "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER: command not found" or words to that effect. Sorry I'm at work and this all happened on my home machine. If anyone has run into (and hopefully over) this before I would appreciate hearing how they fixed it! When I ran the make command without FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes it started ranting about needing linux_lib-2.4.tgz. > Setting up PPP should be fairly straightforward, and there's a lot of > extra documentation around. Why don't you work through the PPP section in > the book first and see how you go? Setting up Doom could be a lot trickier. I might give that a shot tonight, pray for me and the internet! > > As we saw in your demos (thanks for that!), the problems occur mainly when > deep into a conversation with multiple quotes. You should be able to edit > yourself out of any mess, now that we know what tricks it plays. > Did any other microsoft users here have any ideas for you? > Is this better? I'm just removing the original portions and leaving your comments. Not exactly according to Hoyle but it is better than those forests of >>>>>>. > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- Thanks for getting back to me. Stay tuned for the continuing saga! John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 08:03:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18617 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:03:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18609 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:03:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta167.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.167]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA00188 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:03:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:04:08 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5956.EB889BE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:04:06 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello All, At Sue's suggestion and with the help of the Pedantic PPP Primer (site http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html ) I've almost finished setting up my PPP configuration. While I have no idea if it will actually work a few progress checks (like # hostname) indicate that I'm on the right track. The only snags I've found so far were the reference to /etc/sysconfig which has been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to learn vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! All the news that is the news! John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 08:18:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20914 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nms100.rz.uni-kiel.de (nms100.rz.uni-kiel.de [134.245.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA20777 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:18:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhartma@anat.uni-kiel.de) Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms100.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP) id <21975-0@nms100.rz.uni-kiel.de>; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:22:47 +0100 Received: from anat.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA10309; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:15:39 +0100 Message-ID: <351BD156.19707CA5@anat.uni-kiel.de> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:18:31 +0100 From: "Dr. Dieter Hartmann" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tony cappellini CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD 2.25 install problems References: <199803260717.XAA07694@proxy4.ba.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I have experienced the same problems concerning the missing x32bin.tgz during a dos installation from a walnut creek cdrom (2.2.5). Are there any ideas as yet (broken links or whatsoever) ? Regards Dieter tony cappellini wrote: > Hi > > I'm using a Adaptec 2940UW, and 2 Seagate 2.1GB SCSI drives, Pentium 100, > 64MB ram. > > (booting from the Cdrom is enabled in the 2940 bios) > > When I try booting 2.25 from my SCSI CDRom iI get the following messages > > "A bootable CDrom is detected in your CDrom drive" > > "The boot sections on your bootable CDrom are :0. Default Entry" > > "Your cdrom drive is inserted as Drive A: (0h). The original drive A" has > become drive b:" > > Then the system sits there indefinitely. > > So I tried booting to dos, then running install forn the Cdrom. This works > well, until I get tot the "Select Distribution Medium" section of Lehey's > book "The Complete Free BSD" (2nd edition), then when I select CDRom, it > tells me no Cdroms were found. > > Then I tried copying the CDrom to a dos partition, using the setup.exe > program (which was described in the sysinstall documentation), and after a > few seconds of CDrom and HD activity, an error message is displayed > "x32bin.tgz" is missing, and the copying aborts. > > How could they have left a file off of the install cdrom ??? > > Not to mention that the Walnut Creek tech support line has been busy all day. > I'm guessing I'm not the only one calling in with install problems :) > > BTW, The CDRom works fine under W95, so I know the host adapter/ cdrom > combo is working. > > Any suggestions ? > > thanks > > Tony > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 08:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21708 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21626 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node48.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.48]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA02234; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:19:44 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980328011806.00938950@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:18:18 -0300 To: "John M. Purser" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" From: Capriotti Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, please, John ! Don't mention this ee vs vi issue, please ! This will cause - hopefuly not - another religious war here ! FYI, some ppl love vi the way it is, and it's the best text editor ever, ok ? Just say yes ! :) At 08:04 AM 3/27/98 -0800, John M. Purser wrote: >Hello All, > >At Sue's suggestion and with the help of the Pedantic PPP Primer (site >http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html ) I've almost finished setting up >my PPP configuration. While I have no idea if it will actually work a few >progress checks (like # hostname) indicate that I'm on the right track. > >The only snags I've found so far were the reference to /etc/sysconfig which has >been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to learn >vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! > >All the news that is the news! > >John > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 08:26:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22521 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from symbionics.co.uk (symsun3.symbionics.co.uk [194.32.100.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22494 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from sympc287.symbionics.co.uk by symbionics.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26188; Fri, 27 Mar 98 16:25:34 GMT Message-Id: <9803271625.AA26188@symbionics.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: "John M. Purser" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:21:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Reply-To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <01BD5955.3775C840.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi John, Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) helping out? > [John M. Purser] On Thursday, March 26, 1998 1:15 PM, Sue Blake > [SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 26, 1998 at 08:43:29AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > > > > Famous last words :-) > > Oh they won't be my last ones by an means! I will whip this big ugly hairy > bastard if it's the last thing I do! At least with the new manual and this > mailing list I should be able to. > > > > > Ooohh, isn't it awful when that happens, slog, slog, lots of helpful advice, > > and it turns out to be something so "simple and obvious"... to everyone else! > > > > I think there will be lots of those. I just don't know enough to guess right > yet. > I still slap my forhead which those "Oh, that's easy" about once a day! > > > > Does that involve /cdrom and mounting your CD there, perchance? :-) > > (BTW, unmounting is discussed in the errata, and details of its location are > > hidden right at the beginning of the book, where none of us thought to look) > > > > No the directory specified in the manual is /usr/src/ports/emulators/linux_lib > and the one I found was /usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib. I would very much like > to know if any other 2.2.5 users have the one mentioned in the manual. I think that the /usr/src/ports/... is a typo. Usually /usr/src is where the source code to FreeBSD lives, and /usr/ports is where the ports collection lives. I certainly don't have /usr/src/ports on my machine. Advanced stuff: All of the code for any part of FreeBSD, be it software, documentation or the ports is kept in a source code control system called CVS (try man cvs or info cvs). There are three main collections: the FreeBSD source under /usr/src which is FreeBSD; the ports under /usr/ports; and the documentation under /usr/doc. What you see in a release is a version of the code taken from the CVS "reposistory". Sometimes people get confused about where the source appears to live in a release tree (I do, I'm not sure if the documentation source appears under /usr/doc!), because CVS allows you to keep the copy you are working on anywhere you like. > > When I switched to /usr/ports/emulators/linux_lib I ran the make command as the > book specified "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes make all install" but received the error > message "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER: command not found" or words to that effect. Sorry > I'm at work and this all happened on my home machine. If anyone has run into > (and hopefully over) this before I would appreciate hearing how they fixed it! This is a probably a shell/command line problem. You are not using the "Bourne" shell (man sh) but using the "C" Shell, the syntax is different. I would guess that the book talks about these somewhere? > > When I ran the make command without FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes it started ranting > about needing linux_lib-2.4.tgz. > The ports collection is a means to get software not specifically written for FreeBSD to run under FreeBSD. In order for the process to start it needs some source code or orignal distribution material. In this case the port goes looking for /usr/ports/distfiles/linux_lib-2.4.tgz then /cdrom/ports/distfiles/linux_lib-2.4.tgz then tries to ftp it from the original site and then falls back to ftp.freebsd.org. If you didn't have the ports CDROM mounted on /cdrom or a network connection things will fail. > > > Setting up PPP should be fairly straightforward, and there's a lot of > > extra documentation around. Why don't you work through the PPP section in > > the book first and see how you go? Setting up Doom could be a lot trickier. > > I might give that a shot tonight, pray for me and the internet! Check out the PPP tutorial on www.freebsd.org, it is very good. > > > > > As we saw in your demos (thanks for that!), the problems occur mainly when > > deep into a conversation with multiple quotes. You should be able to edit > > yourself out of any mess, now that we know what tricks it plays. > > Did any other microsoft users here have any ideas for you? > > > > Is this better? I'm just removing the original portions and leaving your > comments. Not exactly according to Hoyle but it is better than those forests > of >>>>>>. > > > -- > > > > Thanks for getting back to me. Stay tuned for the continuing saga! > > John Purser > Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 08:30:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23265 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:30:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23236 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:30:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta167.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.167]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01059; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:30:32 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD595A.9B1C6520.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "'Capriotti'" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: RE: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:30:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please note that I stated my preference was based solely on my ignorance of vi. I've used vi and read chunks of the man pages. It is an impressive program and I'm sure if I used it daily I'd come to appreciate it's brutally curt command structure. But to get work done now/today/real-time this newbie needs an editor that I can use without having another virtual terminal tuned into the man page! And there's no point in starting holy/flame wars in this mailing list. We're newbies and won't understand what you're babbling about anyway! :-) John Purser On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:18 PM, Capriotti [SMTP:capriotti@geocities.com] wrote: > Oh, please, John ! > > Don't mention this ee vs vi issue, please ! > > This will cause - hopefuly not - another religious war here ! > > FYI, some ppl love vi the way it is, and it's the best text editor ever, ok ? > > Just say yes ! > > :) > > > > >been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to learn > >vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 09:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00350 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00341 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta167.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.167]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01853; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:56:02 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD595E.2B8E8400.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "'dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk'" , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: FW: One step forward.... Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:56:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote: > > Hi John, > > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) > helping out? > > > I still slap my forhead which those "Oh, that's easy" about once a > day! > > > I think that the /usr/src/ports/... is a typo. Usually /usr/src is > where the source code to FreeBSD lives, and /usr/ports is where the > ports collection lives. I certainly don't have /usr/src/ports on my > machine. > > Advanced stuff: > All of the code for any part of FreeBSD, be it software, > documentation or the ports is kept in a source code control system > called CVS (try man cvs or info cvs). There are three main > collections: the FreeBSD source under /usr/src which is FreeBSD; > the ports under /usr/ports; and the documentation under /usr/doc. > What you see in a release is a version of the code taken from the > CVS "reposistory". Sometimes people get confused about where > the source appears to live in a release tree (I do, I'm not sure > if the documentation source appears under /usr/doc!), because > CVS allows you to keep the copy you are working on anywhere > you like. > > > This is a probably a shell/command line problem. You are not using > the "Bourne" shell (man sh) but using the "C" Shell, the syntax is > different. I would guess that the book talks about these somewhere? > > > > > The ports collection is a means to get software not specifically > written for FreeBSD to run under FreeBSD. In order for the process to > start it needs some source code or orignal distribution material. In > this case the port goes looking for > /usr/ports/distfiles/linux_lib-2.4.tgz > then > /cdrom/ports/distfiles/linux_lib-2.4.tgz > then tries to ftp it from the original site and then > falls back to ftp.freebsd.org. > > If you didn't have the ports CDROM mounted on /cdrom or a network > connection things will fail. > > > Check out the PPP tutorial on www.freebsd.org, it is very good. > > > > Duncan Duncan, Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these thing before then speak up! I plan to get a lot out of this mail list by admitting when I'm having problems and posting the answers/solutions/resources I come up with. I hope to speed other newbies through there learning curve and I'm depending on them to do the same for me! Thanks for the tips about the ports. I've got 4 CDs at home and I've only used one so far. Maybe if I played around with them some? Hopefully by Saturday afternoon I'll be able to connect to the FreeBSD sites via Internet through my FreeBSD machine. I thought I was using a variant of the Borne shell. It's the default one from FreeBSD. I can't recall what my env printout looks like but I'll check when I get home. I printed out the Pedantic PPP tutorial and it's the only reason I've gotten as far as I have. I really like it as wish there were more subjects covered in the straight forward style used there. I want to know all the nitty gritty details (reading the networking section of the manual for the second time) but since I've never seen this stuff in action before taking the theory and creating the reality is a bit of a challenge right now! Once again, good to hear from you and thanks for the advice. John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:30:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22221 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:30:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22211 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-20.pacificnet.net (pm3h-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.117]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28685; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:28:50 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: "John M. Purser" cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues In-Reply-To: <01BD5956.EB889BE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, John M. Purser wrote: > Hello All, > > At Sue's suggestion and with the help of the Pedantic PPP Primer (site > http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html ) I've almost finished setting up > my PPP configuration. While I have no idea if it will actually work a few > progress checks (like # hostname) indicate that I'm on the right track. > > The only snags I've found so far were the reference to /etc/sysconfig which has > been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to learn > vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! > Funny you mention the ee editor. I was hangin' out one day on #freebsd on the efnet. I was just lurkin, trying to soak up all the unix guru-ness from the elite. Well low and behold, a spat broke out. Insults were shared and one of which was, "Your mom uses ee.", which kinda made me afraid to admit that I use ee. Hell, I agree with you ee is easy, and vi is a bitch to learn. But, just to hel ya out...#freebsd guys can be unforgiving it seems to us newbies. :) Take care and good luck. If ya have X running, try playing with xemacs. It's cool because you can just point and click. And it has the control key combinations stated so that you can learn them as you go, then you won't really need to point and click. Now, go forth and prosper young Unix hacker, and may the force be with you. :) > All the news that is the news! > > John > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:32:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23088 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23043 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:32:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-20.pacificnet.net (pm3h-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.117]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29228; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:30:56 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:30:31 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: Capriotti cc: "John M. Purser" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980328011806.00938950@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heheheh, wanna start a religious war? How about Emacs vs Vi. Now that would be a hella war. :) Although, I'm not an expert at either one of them, but I like xemacs cause I can point and click. :) Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Oh, please, John ! > > Don't mention this ee vs vi issue, please ! > > This will cause - hopefuly not - another religious war here ! > > FYI, some ppl love vi the way it is, and it's the best text editor ever, ok ? > > Just say yes ! > > :) > > > At 08:04 AM 3/27/98 -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > >Hello All, > > > >At Sue's suggestion and with the help of the Pedantic PPP Primer (site > >http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html ) I've almost finished > setting up > >my PPP configuration. While I have no idea if it will actually work a few > >progress checks (like # hostname) indicate that I'm on the right track. > > > >The only snags I've found so far were the reference to /etc/sysconfig > which has > >been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to > learn > >vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! > > > >All the news that is the news! > > > >John > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:36:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24016 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freenet5.afn.org (freenet5.afn.org [128.227.163.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23877 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sylvar@afn.org) Received: from freenet2.afn.org (sylvar@freenet2.afn.org [128.227.163.4]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.1S) with ESMTP id OAA19399 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (sylvar@localhost) by freenet2.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.0C) with SMTP id OAA250638 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:36:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: freenet2.afn.org: sylvar owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:36:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Ostrowsky To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Heheheh, wanna start a religious war? How about Emacs vs Vi. Let's not... as they say in another newsgroup, "ALL software sucks. Your suction may vary." Ben To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:39:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24706 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24623 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:38:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-20.pacificnet.net (pm3h-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.117]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA00558; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:36:02 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: "John M. Purser" cc: "'Capriotti'" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: RE: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues In-Reply-To: <01BD595A.9B1C6520.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, come to think of it.... pico is a great alternative to ee, although most advanced users would say that it's just as lame, but who cares. pico is easy to use and *very* straightforward. :) pico works great for what I need it to do (just like ee), and that's all that matters I guess. Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, John M. Purser wrote: > Please note that I stated my preference was based solely on my ignorance of vi. > I've used vi and read chunks of the man pages. It is an impressive program > and I'm sure if I used it daily I'd come to appreciate it's brutally curt > command structure. But to get work done now/today/real-time this newbie needs > an editor that I can use without having another virtual terminal tuned into the > man page! > > And there's no point in starting holy/flame wars in this mailing list. We're > newbies and won't understand what you're babbling about anyway! > > :-) > > John Purser > > On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:18 PM, Capriotti [SMTP:capriotti@geocities.com] > wrote: > > Oh, please, John ! > > > > Don't mention this ee vs vi issue, please ! > > > > This will cause - hopefuly not - another religious war here ! > > > > FYI, some ppl love vi the way it is, and it's the best text editor ever, ok ? > > > > Just say yes ! > > > > :) > > > > > > > > >been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. I really like the ee editor. If I had to > learn > > >vi before I started changing my config files this would take a lot longer! > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:49:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26437 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:49:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26390 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-20.pacificnet.net (pm3h-20.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.117]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03191 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:47:06 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD and Hardware Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for your FreeBSD machine. Right now I have a Pentium 133 (430fx chipset), 1.6 gig hardrive, 64 megs of EDO ram, 1 floppy drive, a 4X IDE cdrom drive, Diamond Stealth 3D 3000 video card, Mouse Systems 2 button mouse, a standard US 101 key keyboard, and a 15 inch monitor. I'd like to upgrade my machine one day to a dual Pentium Pro or Pentium II, but I'm pretty much broke at the moment so I'll have to wait. Like I said before, I was wondering what you guys/gals were running. I was wondering this because of all the new hardware that is coming out recently - Ultra DMA, USB ports, etc. I was wondering if FreeBSD was compatible with the Ultra DMA, and if FreeBSD had any drivers for USB peripherals such as QuickCams or whatever. I'm greatly interested in the dual Pentium II machines. I'm pretty much waiting for FreeBSD 3.0 (or whatever version that might be out that supports SMP) to be released so that I can run a dually and FreeBSD in harmony. :) Hell, actually I don't even understand how Unix drivers work, or how they are even installed. That's one thing I'm gonna have to figure out. Can anyone give me some help on the subject? Anyways, I was just curious. Bear =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 11:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29018 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28999 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node39.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.39]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA10191; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:57:13 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00afc1d0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 04:55:37 -0300 To: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:46 AM 3/27/98 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: >I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for >your FreeBSD machine. > Ready for thriller ?? you asked for that, hehehe !! 486dx/4 100 MHz. Diamond Edge 3d 4MB - no running X no Monitor no Keyboard no mice 32 Mb stardard 72 pin ram 1.2 ide HD - on board ide controller. USRobotics 33.6K - voice not being used. No CD-rom one PCI ne2000 (realtek) network card no floppy Any donations ??? heheheh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 12:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06370 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06201 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:41:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA03477; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:41:43 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328074141.56389@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:41:41 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "'dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk'" , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... References: <01BD595E.2B8E8400.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD595E.2B8E8400.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay > [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) > > helping out? > Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these thing > before then speak up! ... but PLEASE always move your conversation to freebsd-questions if the matter is at all suitable for that mailing list. Answers to questions, solutions to problems at any level belong on -questions where others can see them. I'm not so much worried about this one specific conversation but if I don't respond loudly to the above comments, others will take it as being open season. Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more advanced users. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 12:49:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07873 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:49:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07863 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:49:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node05.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.5]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA12393 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:49:15 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231210000.009b6550@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:47:39 -0300 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the >problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can >fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more >advanced users. > On the other hand, an experienced user is VERY welcome here, to detect our dificulties and then kindly require us to move the discussion over to -questions. [guees what... I've sent it to Sue only again ! - Here it is, public again 1] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 12:50:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08255 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08240 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:50:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA03526; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:50:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328075009.00901@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:50:09 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Dr. Dieter Hartmann" Cc: tony cappellini , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD 2.25 install problems References: <199803260717.XAA07694@proxy4.ba.best.com> <351BD156.19707CA5@anat.uni-kiel.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <351BD156.19707CA5@anat.uni-kiel.de>; from Dr. Dieter Hartmann on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 05:18:31PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Reminder: We don't answer questions like this here. (Yes I know it's confusing.) Please send all mail of this kind to to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 05:18:31PM +0100, Dr. Dieter Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > I have experienced the same problems concerning the missing x32bin.tgz during a > dos installation from a > walnut creek cdrom (2.2.5). Are there any ideas as yet (broken links or > whatsoever) ? > > Regards > Dieter > > tony cappellini wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I'm using a Adaptec 2940UW, and 2 Seagate 2.1GB SCSI drives, Pentium 100, > > 64MB ram. > > > > (booting from the Cdrom is enabled in the 2940 bios) > > > > When I try booting 2.25 from my SCSI CDRom iI get the following messages > > > > "A bootable CDrom is detected in your CDrom drive" > > > > "The boot sections on your bootable CDrom are :0. Default Entry" > > > > "Your cdrom drive is inserted as Drive A: (0h). The original drive A" has > > become drive b:" > > > > Then the system sits there indefinitely. > > > > So I tried booting to dos, then running install forn the Cdrom. This works > > well, until I get tot the "Select Distribution Medium" section of Lehey's > > book "The Complete Free BSD" (2nd edition), then when I select CDRom, it > > tells me no Cdroms were found. > > > > Then I tried copying the CDrom to a dos partition, using the setup.exe > > program (which was described in the sysinstall documentation), and after a > > few seconds of CDrom and HD activity, an error message is displayed > > "x32bin.tgz" is missing, and the copying aborts. > > > > How could they have left a file off of the install cdrom ??? > > > > Not to mention that the Walnut Creek tech support line has been busy all day. > > I'm guessing I'm not the only one calling in with install problems :) > > > > BTW, The CDRom works fine under W95, so I know the host adapter/ cdrom > > combo is working. > > > > Any suggestions ? > > > > thanks > > > > Tony > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:04:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11830 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11746 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA03577; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:03:47 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328080342.29792@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:03:42 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues References: <01BD5956.EB889BE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD5956.EB889BE0.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:04:06AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:04:06AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > Hello All, > > At Sue's suggestion and with the help of the Pedantic PPP Primer (site > http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html ) I've almost finished setting up > my PPP configuration. While I have no idea if it will actually work a few > progress checks (like # hostname) indicate that I'm on the right track. > > The only snags I've found so far were the reference to /etc/sysconfig which has > been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. John, did you remember to "do the right thing" and gently point this out (the good stuff and the boo-boo) to the person who maintains the tutorial? Generally people who write these tutorials scream for helpful feedback and get far too little, especially from appreciative newbies. > I really like the ee editor. You'll grow tired of its habits when you're ready. > If I had to learn vi before I started changing my config files this would > take a lot longer! Absolutely! Non-newbies don't seem to understand that while you're doing battle to understand one Big Thing there's no brain space to learn half a dozen complex tools at the same time. Maybe it would have been better to learn the tools separately first but we don't choose the timing of our problems and hey, ee works right away! There are many powerful alternatives to vi, such as joe in the ports collection which has an identical DOS version too. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:14:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13713 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:14:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13685 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:14:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA03607; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:13:49 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328081345.01510@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:13:45 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Capriotti Cc: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware References: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00afc1d0@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00afc1d0@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 04:55:37AM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 04:55:37AM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > At 11:46 AM 3/27/98 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > >I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for > >your FreeBSD machine. > > > > > Ready for thriller ?? you asked for that, hehehe !! Ha! You'll have to do much better than that. > 486dx/4 100 MHz. 386, not even a coprocessor (emulated in kernel) > Diamond Edge 3d 4MB - no running X Unmentionable contraption with 1 meg? maybe less. > no Monitor > no Keyboard That's cheating! You must be using these from elsewhere :-) > no mice no mice > 32 Mb stardard 72 pin ram A full quota of 8 megs of whatever goes in a 386 > 1.2 ide HD - on board ide controller. 300Mb SCSI the size (and speed) of a house brick > USRobotics 33.6K - voice not being used. 28.8 microcom > No CD-rom what are they? > one PCI ne2000 (realtek) network card one ISA ne2000 clone > no floppy no floppy > Any donations ??? heheheh Sure, wanna swap? :-) This 386 running FreeBSD can leave a pentium running NT for dead. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:24:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15378 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15277 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:24:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA03638; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:23:45 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328082342.59557@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:23:42 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Capriotti Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... References: <3.0.32.19691231210000.009b6550@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231210000.009b6550@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 05:47:39AM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 05:47:39AM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > > > >Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the > >problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can > >fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more > >advanced users. > > > > > On the other hand, an experienced user is VERY welcome here, to detect our > dificulties and then kindly require us to move the discussion over to > -questions. They are most welcome to subscribe and watch, just as we can subscribe and watch any list on which our comments would be inappropriate (such as the highly technical ones for developers). But when they subscribe to this mailing list they do so as guests and should not pop up and offer to solve our problems for us in this forum. We need newbies-friendly helpers much more desperately in -questions. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:26:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16028 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:26:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15931 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node05.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.5]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA13943; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:25:42 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980328062219.00a3c290@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:24:07 -0300 To: Sue Blake From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:13 AM 3/28/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 04:55:37AM -0300, Capriotti wrote: >> At 11:46 AM 3/27/98 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: >> >I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for >> >your FreeBSD machine. >> > >> >> >> Ready for thriller ?? you asked for that, hehehe !! > >Ha! You'll have to do much better than that. > >> 486dx/4 100 MHz. > >386, not even a coprocessor (emulated in kernel) And she WON !!!! >> no Monitor >> no Keyboard > >That's cheating! You must be using these from elsewhere :-) Course... From an NT box, heheh. Aren't you taking pity of me ??? hehehehe > >> No CD-rom > >what are they? Something ppl put round flat things inside... cokies ? > >> Any donations ??? heheheh > > >Sure, wanna swap? :-) If I could I would send you an xtra HD and a 462dx/2 I have here ! But it would cost an arm and a leg to fedx it to you :( >This 386 running FreeBSD can leave a pentium running NT for dead. I "ZACTLY" know what you're talking about ! :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:28:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16682 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16662 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from johnp (mta170.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.170]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA09602 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:28:23 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5984.37595B40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Thanks Sue Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:25:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue, I just sent a note off to Steve Sims thanking him for the tutorial, telling him what a difference it has made in my FreeBSD experience, and pointing out the changed name for the configuration file. Am I ungrounded now mom? John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:32:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17371 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:32:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17231 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node05.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.5]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA14190; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:31:18 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980328062831.009b6bc0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:29:44 -0300 To: Sue Blake From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:23 AM 3/28/98 +1100, you wrote: >They are most welcome to subscribe and watch, just as we can subscribe and >watch any list on which our comments would be inappropriate (such as the >highly technical ones for developers). Easy, Sue... We've got it. :) > >But when they subscribe to this mailing list they do so as guests and should >not pop up and offer to solve our problems for us in this forum. We need >newbies-friendly helpers much more desperately in -questions. No need to stress it so much. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 13:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17994 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:34:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17637 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialA39.aei.ca [206.123.6.77]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23995 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:33:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351C1A44.DFC0137D@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:29:40 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Simply Change the name of FreeBSD-Newbies Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CF7783E85414E15B19CFE6CE" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------CF7783E85414E15B19CFE6CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was from Sue >Reminder: >We don't answer questions like this here. (Yes I know it's confusing.) >Please send all mail of this kind to to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Simply change the name of FreeBSD-newbies for Newbies-Chat or something like that Why do battle to question just because the name is confusing??? KapuT -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** --------------CF7783E85414E15B19CFE6CE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was from Sue
>Reminder:
>We don't answer questions like this here. (Yes I know it's confusing.)
>Please send all mail of this kind to to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Simply change the name of FreeBSD-newbies for Newbies-Chat
or something like that
Why do battle to question just because the name is confusing???
KapuT
--
***************************
malartre@aei.ca
www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html
ICQ #4224434
IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid
Undernet #FreeBSD
Windows95
Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6
***************************
  --------------CF7783E85414E15B19CFE6CE-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 14:03:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22622 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:03:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from filesafe.net (root@taxsys.com [206.224.95.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22606 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sales@taxsys.com) From: sales@taxsys.com Received: from taxsys.com (209-113-28-133.insync.net [209.113.28.133]) by filesafe.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23823 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:04:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <351C2258.D24836B4@taxsys.com> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:04:09 -0600 Organization: Tax Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for > your FreeBSD machine. > Well, lurking time is over, time to opt in... Running 233MHZ K6 with Ultra DMA 3 or 4 gig, I forget, and 384 meg ram. We chose FreeBSD on a friends recommendation for our Web server and have been really happy with the stability. Since coming from the windows/dos world, you will know how starved for that we are. I wondered about the Ultra DMA and in talking to some hardware types found a wealth of opinion that said IDE was IDE. We have been running since October 97 with no problems. The K6 was a question too, but aside from some installation hiccups, (I think we had to use a floppy from an earlier version, we are running 2.2.2) the K6 has been great. It's in the same class as the Pentium II and is a heck of a lot cheaper. Current versions probably cleared up the install problems. We've had to learn a lot in a hurry, but we'll be newbies for while yet... I hope this email (Netscape) is formatting OK? Will willock@taxsys.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 14:50:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06332 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06277 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03931; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:49:57 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328094953.10038@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:49:53 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Thanks Sue References: <01BD5984.37595B40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD5984.37595B40.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:25:00PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:25:00PM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > Sue, > > I just sent a note off to Steve Sims thanking him for the tutorial, telling him > what a difference it has made in my FreeBSD experience, and pointing out the > changed name for the configuration file. :-) > Am I ungrounded now mom? Arrrgghhh! Don't call me that or you won't get any more jelly beans! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 16:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25191 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25170 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02621; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougGuy@dal.net) Message-ID: <351C451A.F7897291@dal.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:32:26 -0800 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Capriotti CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... References: <3.0.32.19980328062831.009b6bc0@pop.mpc.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Capriotti wrote: > > At 08:23 AM 3/28/98 +1100, you wrote: > >They are most welcome to subscribe and watch, just as we can subscribe and > >watch any list on which our comments would be inappropriate (such as the > >highly technical ones for developers). > > Easy, Sue... We've got it. :) This is one area that sue and I disagree on. New users are welcome to subscribe to any open freebsd list. If you asked a question like, "What does UFS mean?" on -hackers you'd probably just be ignored. In general the only people who get flamed are people who insist on continuing to use the wrong forum for long pointless nonsense. Subscribe to -current if you'd like to see the occasional example. :) > >But when they subscribe to this mailing list they do so as guests and should > >not pop up and offer to solve our problems for us in this forum. We need > >newbies-friendly helpers much more desperately in -questions. > > No need to stress it so much. Indeed. I've had people mail me saying that they appreciated my help but they are unsubscribing from -newbies because they don't want to be held hostage to one person's view of what the list should be. As I've said, I support the idea of this list defining its own purpose as it grows. I have and will continue to keep my posts to this lists few and far between. However freebsd is a family, and one group of freebsd users telling another group that they are "guests" and should be seen and not heard doesn't promote unity. It supports a class division that only exists in certain people's imagination. Doug PS, UFS = Unix File System, also known as FFS or Fast File System. :) -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 16:58:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29132 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.inw.net (ns.inw.net [206.28.240.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29108 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from denny@kewanee.net) Received: from loki (keppp30.inw.net [207.2.103.99]) by ns.inw.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA24370 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:58:19 -0600 (CST) Received: by loki (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:56:48 -0600 Message-ID: <001a01bd59e4$62ffaaa0$0200a8c0@loki.inw.net> Reply-To: "Denny Reiter" From: "Denny Reiter" To: Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:56:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.4 Evaluation Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, to learn on and until I can afford a second machine: Packard Bell (ARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! ;-) 486SX-25 6 meg of RAM 500 Meg HD No CD-ROM No Mouse or Keyboard Old VGA Monitor NE2000 clone card I kludged it together from parts I had taken as trade-ins on systems I had built and wanted to try out FREEBSD. Once I get another machine (looking at a Compaq P166 w/16Meg & 1.2Gig HD) I'll transfer it over to "my" machine: Cyrix 6x86 200MHz 64meg of RAM (32meg EDO SIMM, 32meg EDO DIMM) 4.3 Gig IDE HD 24X IDE CD-ROM NE2000 clone network card 4 meg ATI Video Card But I think the kids would revolt if I did it now :) Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ICQ # 823496 -----Original Message----- From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 1:49 PM Subject: FreeBSD and Hardware >I was curious to the types of hardware that you guys/gals are using for >your FreeBSD machine. > >Right now I have a Pentium 133 (430fx chipset), 1.6 gig hardrive, >64 megs of EDO ram, 1 floppy drive, a 4X IDE cdrom drive, Diamond Stealth >3D 3000 video card, Mouse Systems 2 button mouse, a standard US 101 >key keyboard, and a 15 inch monitor. > >I'd like to upgrade my machine one day to a dual Pentium Pro or Pentium >II, but I'm pretty much broke at the moment so I'll have to wait. Like I >said before, I was wondering what you guys/gals were running. > >I was wondering this because of all the new hardware that is coming out >recently - Ultra DMA, USB ports, etc. I was wondering if FreeBSD was >compatible with the Ultra DMA, and if FreeBSD had any drivers for USB >peripherals such as QuickCams or whatever. I'm greatly interested in the >dual Pentium II machines. I'm pretty much waiting for FreeBSD 3.0 (or >whatever version that might be out that supports SMP) to be released so >that I can run a dually and FreeBSD in harmony. :) > >Hell, actually I don't even understand how Unix drivers work, or how they >are even installed. That's one thing I'm gonna have to figure out. Can >anyone give me some help on the subject? > >Anyways, I was just curious. > >Bear > >=================================================== >Joseph Garcia >Downey, CA >bear@pacificnet.net >"Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." >=================================================== > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 17:29:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03527 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03520 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA01586; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:29:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:29:35 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: KapuT cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Simply Change the name of FreeBSD-Newbies In-Reply-To: <351C1A44.DFC0137D@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, KapuT wrote: > Simply change the name of FreeBSD-newbies for Newbies-Chat > or something like that > Why do battle to question just because the name is confusing??? I can see why it would be confusing. However, the fact of the matter is...Each and every one of us got an e-mail explaining exactly what the list is for when we signed up. If people didn't read that message, they aren't likely to read the welcome message for any other list, and things would not be better. As it is now, the names of all the groups are freebsd-*. I like it that way because it makes for easy filtering without having to filter anything that has @freebsd.org in it. Obviously, it would be easy to fix, but some things are best left unchanged ;-) Sean -- "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 17:51:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07506 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07499 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialA30.aei.ca [206.123.6.68]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25429; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:51:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351C56B8.6C618439@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:47:36 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Harding CC: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Simply Change the name of FreeBSD-Newbies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sean Harding wrote: > On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, KapuT wrote: > > > Simply change the name of FreeBSD-newbies for Newbies-Chat > > or something like that > > Why do battle to question just because the name is confusing??? > > I can see why it would be confusing. However, the fact of the matter > is...Each and every one of us got an e-mail explaining exactly what the > list is for when we signed up. If people didn't read that message, they > aren't likely to read the welcome message for any other list, and things > would not be better. > > As it is now, the names of all the groups are freebsd-*. I like it that > way because it makes for easy filtering without having to filter anything > that has @freebsd.org in it. Obviously, it would be easy to fix, but some > things are best left unchanged ;-) > Wow, you want it to be more beautiful than usefull :-)hihi Cya KapuT > Sean > > -- > "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." > --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" > Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu > http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/ ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 19:09:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19475 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:09:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ophelia.uoregon.edu (sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu [128.223.194.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19427 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by ophelia.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01981; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:08:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:08:03 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: KapuT cc: Sean Harding , FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Simply Change the name of FreeBSD-Newbies In-Reply-To: <351C56B8.6C618439@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, KapuT wrote: > Wow, you want it to be more beautiful than usefull :-)hihi Nahh...I'm just saying that changing it won't help anything, and it *will* hurt something (however minor). So, I vote for leaving it alone ;-) Sean -- "Believe me, the truth is we're not honest. Not the people that we dream." --10,000 Maniacs, "Eden" Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 19:22:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20570 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:22:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20537 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:21:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04608; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:21:38 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:21:34 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Rant: What are we? References: <3.0.32.19980328062831.009b6bc0@pop.mpc.com.br> <351C451A.F7897291@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <351C451A.F7897291@dal.net>; from Doug on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 04:32:26PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 04:32:26PM -0800, Doug wrote: > Indeed. I've had people mail me saying that they appreciated my help > but they are unsubscribing from -newbies because they don't want to be > held hostage to one person's view of what the list should be. People on every mailing list make comments like that. If we are at all "held hostage" if you must use an extreme term, it is to the overall community's wellbeing and our own will to make our own decisions, and the need for compatibility between those two. The decision to disallow support questions was not initially mine, but until now I have been prepared to take any flack for it rather than let the blame fall on anyone else. As it turns out, that decision has been good for everyone. Most newbies are missing the context of history here. I didn't simply set this list up and go for it. I insisted that we discuss the possible issues for the rest of the FreeBSD Project. Since I was the only person interested enough to initiate and follow through something for newbies I took my responsibilities seriously and set it up so that at least: 1. No-one else's work would be slighted or usurped by the list's existence and 2. The newbies joining would have enough options, be sufficiently free of outside pressures to make most of their own decisions about what they wanted to do with the list, within the constraints of (1) Some of the most serious concerns were that newbies might give each other incorrect technical advice, that a few medium-level users could easily take over such a little pond by charitable appearances as experts, and that the support for newbies in -questions would diminish if they came here for it instead, causing those who wish to volunteer support to subscribe to yet another list if they like newbies. Further, there would be endless confusion over which questions are newbie enough to be on this list and which are not, and debates, and... division. We don't need that! These concerns sounded real and addressable, and the present freebsd-newbies is the result of that community process. Had we not taken those concerns into account we would not have had a mailing list for newbies at all. Some people, including some newbies, will always see newbies as people asking for help. Even now, some appear to want to push that passive definition upon us. The only way to give it a chance to work was to encourage the list's use by newbies only. I knew some more advanced people would try to get their bib in, tell us what to do, and turn it into a second freebsd-questions if given half the chance. So I asked the more advanced users to avoid coming in and imposing their magic until we had the chance to find out what we can do for ourselves. We're always being told to do more for ourselves, and guess what, some of us want to! For the third time, Doug, I'm asking you to show your respect for newbies, for what we are trying to achieve together through this list, and for the FreeBSD Project as a whole, by letting us get on with it. If anyone had a better idea for how to make this work and sincerely wished to do something constructive in the long term, they should have spoken up and volunteered their own efforts last month, last year, and the year before, when newbies asked for their own space and everyone was too busy hacking to lift a damn finger. We've got our code, and we've got our newbies list. We're doing it FOR OURSELVES and it's OK, we're getting by fine without being a burden on anyone else. It's not meant to be everyone's cup of tea but some of us are actually enjoying it. Nor is it meant to offend those we've been totally dependent on in the past. We do still need their help very much, but we know where to go for that. > As I've said, I support the idea of this list defining its own purpose as > it grows. Then you do agree with something :-) > I have and will continue to keep my posts to this lists few and > far between. And as moderator I ask you to keep them on topic, please. Most things that newbies like to talk about are on topic. Support, however, is not. And that is not negotiable, for the reasons outlined above. The activity which defines this list is that of being a newbie, doing what newbies do when they are not seeking and giving technical support. Now if you or anyone else cares to dispute the validity of those concerns or the wisdom of this decision, debate it by all means, but not here. The issue should be returned to freebsd-chat where it started, and where there's several people who have an interest in the original discussion. > However freebsd is a family, and one group of freebsd users > telling another group that they are "guests" and should be seen and not > heard doesn't promote unity. It supports a class division that only > exists in certain people's imagination. You're right there Doug. I'm not used to people having to be told how to treat each other's endeavours with respect. The division between mailing lists is not based on class but on activities. The activity of asking and answering questions belongs in -questions. Multimedia activities have freebsd-multimedia, and there's -hackers for people who are hacking (ahem.. writing code, not cracking). I don't think that's too hard to understand, even for a newbie. The *activities* of newbies which cannot be discussed on other mailing lists belong here. Because I insisted throughout that we use only -questions for support, we are now as much a part of that mailing list as anyone. Had I *once* buckled under pressure to have support here, there would have been class division and fragmentation of efforts. Being the moderator this makes me extremely unpopular, creates hours of work each day, and means I have to stick my neck out to defend principles with little regard for my own personal position, but that's the job and I normally do it without complaint or comment. Other newbies will soon share these responsibilities. I make a lot of mistakes, but this is not one of them. It is bloody hard work which I happen to consider worth every hurdle. If this list cannot be permitted to give newbies the free space to work out what they want to do for the community without interference, where we can make our own unhurried decisions, make a few mistakes along the way, and learn, then I wonder what the hell can. And after only a week, over 250 other newbies seem to agree. Something's gotta be working here :-) I think it's us. Weak Disclaimer: For those who are new, Doug and I are like the dog and cat of the community at the moment :-) I stand by everything here, but please filter it through the knowledge that I may be biased without good reason or awareness. Doug has done a lot for FreeBSD, and for newbies in -questions, and is deserving of your respect regardless of any disagreement I may express on the topic of -newbies. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 21:03:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29693 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freenet5.afn.org (freenet5.afn.org [128.227.163.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29680 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sylvar@afn.org) Received: from freenet2.afn.org (sylvar@freenet2.afn.org [128.227.163.4]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.1S) with ESMTP id AAA08368 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (sylvar@localhost) by freenet2.afn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/AFN-2.0C) with SMTP id AAA197025 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:04:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: freenet2.afn.org: sylvar owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:04:05 -0500 (EST) From: Ben Ostrowsky To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? In-Reply-To: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As it turns out, that decision has been good for everyone. Please speak for yourself, Sue. I'm one of a dozen people who have expressed their interest in newbie questions, and there are probably several dozen subscribers who have not yet told you of their interest. This decision has been bad for me. I enjoy the chatter, but I would prefer that the list welcome ANY SUBJECT OF INTEREST TO NEWBIES. > division. We don't need that! It comes with the territory, unless you're planning on making the list strictly moderated by approval, or even announce-only. > If this list cannot be permitted to give newbies the free space to work out > what they want to do for the community without interference, where we can > make our own unhurried decisions, make a few mistakes along the way, and > learn, then I wonder what the hell can. Bravo, and well said. You've just explained why we newbies should be doing what they want to do without interference, which includes asking and answering newbie-type questions, and chatting about list policy. Ben To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 21:04:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29996 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:04:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quest.shoal.net.au (quest.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29871 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:04:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by quest.shoal.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03164 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:04:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:04:58 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware In-Reply-To: <001a01bd59e4$62ffaaa0$0200a8c0@loki.inw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 486 dx4-100 64MB ram adaptec 1542 scsi card single or double speed scsi cd-rom (its slow) dlt tape drive (its fast!) 1.2GB ide hard drive Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 21:13:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00971 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00960 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrF-31.aei.ca [206.186.205.31]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17672; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:12:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <351C85EC.E2B74CB3@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:09:00 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Ostrowsky CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben Ostrowsky wrote: > > As it turns out, that decision has been good for everyone. > > Please speak for yourself, Sue. I'm one of a dozen people who have > expressed their interest in newbie questions, and there are probably > several dozen subscribers who have not yet told you of their interest. > Hum, you dont understand: FreeBSD-Question is for question. Any. > This decision has been bad for me. I enjoy the chatter, but I would > prefer that the list welcome ANY SUBJECT OF INTEREST TO NEWBIES. > > > division. We don't need that! > > It comes with the territory, unless you're planning on making the list > strictly moderated by approval, or even announce-only. > If we start to ask newbie-like question here, we will have newbie answers...not so good :-) > > If this list cannot be permitted to give newbies the free space to work out > > what they want to do for the community without interference, where we can > > make our own unhurried decisions, make a few mistakes along the way, and > > learn, then I wonder what the hell can. > > Bravo, and well said. You've just explained why we newbies should be > doing what they want to do without interference, which includes asking > and answering newbie-type questions, and chatting about list policy. > > Ben > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Cya KapuT Its dark! -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca FreeBSD 4 Newbies project www.aei.ca/~malartre/newbies.html ICQ #4224434 IRCNet #quebec #wage #mid Undernet #FreeBSD Windows95 Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 21:41:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04645 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04639 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04969; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:40:42 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328164039.09786@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:40:39 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Ben Ostrowsky Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Ostrowsky on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 12:04:05AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 12:04:05AM -0500, Ben Ostrowsky wrote: > Bravo, and well said. You've just explained why we newbies should be > doing what they want to do without interference, which includes asking > and answering newbie-type questions, and chatting about list policy. I think you overlooked that the definition is based on activities, not social division, and that no two lists are to duplicate an activity as far as possible. I have never refused to discuss list policy with newbies, but I've always resisted the influences of non-newbies and will continue to do so. Please be clear that you're tying two things together here: newbies questions, and the purpose of this list. They are not necessarily related. Your concern seems more centred around getting technical support, am I right? You seem to be saying you would like to see a place where technical questions could be asked and answered, but only ever the questions of newbies? Is that your way of saying you have some problem with posting to freebsd-questions? Because if it is, we should address that here as a problem faced by a newbie. Please tell us about it. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 21:59:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06629 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (xdn@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06592 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from xdn@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (xdn@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22431; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:58:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:58:55 -0500 (EST) From: Amanda To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? In-Reply-To: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well Sue.. I agree with you and will back you up 100% on the newbie list. Alot of people (newbies) feel overwhelmed by emailing a question mailing list. They sometimes feel dumb because of all the knowledge that floats around them. I know I sure did. I like this list because I can learn from other people. When a newbie makes a mistake etc. I also understand why freebsd-newbies cannot be a question/answer place because hence *NEW*bie which means alot of the people are at the same knowledge level with the operating system (not to discriminate anyone). But I do know alot of newbies will think this is a question and answer type place, I did at first. But no one wants to get their questions answered by someone not sure. It is okay if you know for sure.. but sometimes you think you know the answer when you don't. Maybe we should make the chat a learn from our mistake type place where people share their mistakes so others can learn from that? Don't know, just a suggestion. :) But I am 100% in agreement with you Sue. I hope this mailing list goes well for you and everyone subscribing to it. On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 04:32:26PM -0800, Doug wrote: > > > Indeed. I've had people mail me saying that they appreciated my help > > but they are unsubscribing from -newbies because they don't want to be > > held hostage to one person's view of what the list should be. > > People on every mailing list make comments like that. If we are at all "held > hostage" if you must use an extreme term, it is to the overall community's > wellbeing and our own will to make our own decisions, and the need for > compatibility between those two. > > The decision to disallow support questions was not initially mine, but until > now I have been prepared to take any flack for it rather than let the blame > fall on anyone else. As it turns out, that decision has been good for everyone. > > > Most newbies are missing the context of history here. > > I didn't simply set this list up and go for it. I insisted that we discuss > the possible issues for the rest of the FreeBSD Project. Since I was the > only person interested enough to initiate and follow through something for > newbies I took my responsibilities seriously and set it up so that at least: > > 1. No-one else's work would be slighted or usurped by the list's existence > > and > > 2. The newbies joining would have enough options, be sufficiently free of > outside pressures to make most of their own decisions about what they > wanted to do with the list, within the constraints of (1) > > Some of the most serious concerns were that newbies might give each other > incorrect technical advice, that a few medium-level users could easily take > over such a little pond by charitable appearances as experts, and that the > support for newbies in -questions would diminish if they came here for it > instead, causing those who wish to volunteer support to subscribe to yet > another list if they like newbies. Further, there would be endless confusion > over which questions are newbie enough to be on this list and which are not, > and debates, and... division. We don't need that! These concerns sounded > real and addressable, and the present freebsd-newbies is the result of that > community process. > > Had we not taken those concerns into account we would not have had a mailing > list for newbies at all. Some people, including some newbies, will always > see newbies as people asking for help. Even now, some appear to want to push > that passive definition upon us. The only way to give it a chance to work > was to encourage the list's use by newbies only. I knew some more advanced > people would try to get their bib in, tell us what to do, and turn it into a > second freebsd-questions if given half the chance. So I asked the more > advanced users to avoid coming in and imposing their magic until we had the > chance to find out what we can do for ourselves. We're always being told to > do more for ourselves, and guess what, some of us want to! For the third > time, Doug, I'm asking you to show your respect for newbies, for what we are > trying to achieve together through this list, and for the FreeBSD Project as > a whole, by letting us get on with it. > > If anyone had a better idea for how to make this work and sincerely wished > to do something constructive in the long term, they should have spoken up > and volunteered their own efforts last month, last year, and the year > before, when newbies asked for their own space and everyone was too busy > hacking to lift a damn finger. > > We've got our code, and we've got our newbies list. We're doing it FOR > OURSELVES and it's OK, we're getting by fine without being a burden on > anyone else. It's not meant to be everyone's cup of tea but some of us are > actually enjoying it. Nor is it meant to offend those we've been totally > dependent on in the past. We do still need their help very much, but we know > where to go for that. > > > > As I've said, I support the idea of this list defining its own purpose as > > it grows. > > Then you do agree with something :-) > > > I have and will continue to keep my posts to this lists few and > > far between. > > And as moderator I ask you to keep them on topic, please. Most things that > newbies like to talk about are on topic. Support, however, is not. And that > is not negotiable, for the reasons outlined above. The activity which > defines this list is that of being a newbie, doing what newbies do when they > are not seeking and giving technical support. > > Now if you or anyone else cares to dispute the validity of those concerns or > the wisdom of this decision, debate it by all means, but not here. The issue > should be returned to freebsd-chat where it started, and where there's > several people who have an interest in the original discussion. > > > However freebsd is a family, and one group of freebsd users > > telling another group that they are "guests" and should be seen and not > > heard doesn't promote unity. It supports a class division that only > > exists in certain people's imagination. > > You're right there Doug. I'm not used to people having to be told how to > treat each other's endeavours with respect. The division between mailing > lists is not based on class but on activities. The activity of asking and > answering questions belongs in -questions. Multimedia activities have > freebsd-multimedia, and there's -hackers for people who are hacking (ahem.. > writing code, not cracking). I don't think that's too hard to understand, > even for a newbie. The *activities* of newbies which cannot be discussed on > other mailing lists belong here. > > Because I insisted throughout that we use only -questions for support, we > are now as much a part of that mailing list as anyone. Had I *once* buckled > under pressure to have support here, there would have been class division > and fragmentation of efforts. > > Being the moderator this makes me extremely unpopular, creates hours of work > each day, and means I have to stick my neck out to defend principles with > little regard for my own personal position, but that's the job and I > normally do it without complaint or comment. Other newbies will soon share > these responsibilities. I make a lot of mistakes, but this is not one of > them. It is bloody hard work which I happen to consider worth every hurdle. > If this list cannot be permitted to give newbies the free space to work out > what they want to do for the community without interference, where we can > make our own unhurried decisions, make a few mistakes along the way, and > learn, then I wonder what the hell can. > > And after only a week, over 250 other newbies seem to agree. > Something's gotta be working here :-) I think it's us. > > > > > Weak Disclaimer: For those who are new, Doug and I are like the dog and cat > of the community at the moment :-) I stand by everything here, but please > filter it through the knowledge that I may be biased without good reason or > awareness. Doug has done a lot for FreeBSD, and for newbies in -questions, > and is deserving of your respect regardless of any disagreement I may > express on the topic of -newbies. > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 22:31:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09087 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:31:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09077 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05091; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:30:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328173050.17158@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:30:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Amanda Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Amanda on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 12:58:55AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 12:58:55AM -0500, Amanda wrote: > Well Sue.. > I agree with you and will back you up 100% on the newbie list. > Alot of people (newbies) feel overwhelmed by emailing a question mailing > list. They sometimes feel dumb because of all the knowledge that floats > around them. I know I sure did. I like this list because I can learn from > other people. When a newbie makes a mistake etc. I also understand why > freebsd-newbies cannot be a question/answer place because hence *NEW*bie > which means alot of the people are at the same knowledge level with the > operating system (not to discriminate anyone). But I do know alot of > newbies will think this is a question and answer type place, I did at > first. I know this is tricky. It's so easy to assume that newbies means problems. What we've seen, though, is a lot of people who are interested in what they are doing and doing well most of the time. The list's purpose was described simply in two lines. It could have been longer. Once it was a whole screenful. The two-liner has the advantage of leaving it fairly free for the participants to make of it what they want within reason. There wasn't room to say "but sound issues to -multimedia, java to -java, questions to -questions, security to -security, ..." and it didn't seem necessary to spell it all out when there's a perfectly good list of them at http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html Well I was wrong. Here is the long version which I think reflects the assorted interests of the newbies who have participated so far. I wonder, however, if the people who are confused by two lines of text are going to be any less confused by ten. What do you think? FREEBSD-NEWBIES FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, promoting FreeBSD among our friends, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. > But no one wants to get their questions answered by someone not > sure. It is okay if you know for sure.. but sometimes you think you know > the answer when you don't. Maybe we should make the chat a learn from our > mistake type place where people share their mistakes so others can learn > from that? Don't know, just a suggestion. :) But I am 100% in agreement > with you Sue. I hope this mailing list goes well for you and everyone > subscribing to it. Thanks Amanda :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 23:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12283 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:13:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12274 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA05202; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:12:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328181250.09035@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:12:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Christopher Martin at Home Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] References: <199803271114.MAA02860@mail.keyworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803271114.MAA02860@mail.keyworld.net>; from Christopher Martin at Home on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 12:07:58PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 12:07:58PM +0100, Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > Spot on... > > Use the KISS principal. Unfortunately the big-boyz are making it extremely > difficult for the professionals in the field to convince ignorant customers > that that is the way the system works. > > After all computer systems are not washing machines! > > :-) > Chris > > ---------- > > From: David Wolfskill > > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: FW: Email [was: Squid will that be fried ?] > > Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 4:56 PM > > > > >From: james huckle > > >Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:23:45 -0000 > > > > >I'm get a little sick of all this MS bashing. Sure, the product IMHO > > >usually sucks and is bug ridden but people buy it and people have to > > >support it. People like pretty windows to type into and will use these > > >products at the expense of resilience. > > > > >... > > > > Granted, I've only been subscribed to this list for about a week, but I > > don't recall seeing anything that I would consider "MS bashing" in it, > > let alone in this thread. If you want to see MS bashing, take a look at > > some of the "advocacy" newsgroups in USENET. > > > > As for using MS products... well, folks make choices. My choice is "no > > MS" -- a significant reason I left a previous employer (now defunct) is > > that they decided to try to port their product to an MS environment, and > > I decline to support such things. > > > > [Please note that I am writing as an individual, who in no way > > represents that his perspectives have any given correlation with any > > other entity.] > > > > >Lets make the world a little more feature rich :) > > > > I'd rather have things work first, and add (appropriate) features > > carefully... so things continue to work. > > > > david > > -- > > David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message No, and it's just as well they're not. Computers can get many things wrong, but they don't make your sheets the same colour as your jeans :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 27 23:30:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14981 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14970 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: from speedy.plstn1.sfba.home.com ([24.1.82.47]) by ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA13911 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:30:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980327233011.006fbd5c@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:30:11 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <001a01bd59e4$62ffaaa0$0200a8c0@loki.inw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For my internet gateway: Intel Pentium 100 Intel Endeavor MB (FX chipset, onboard SB16 not in use) 24MB non-EDO 72-pin ram 2.1GB WD IDE, 212MB CONNER IDE (salvaged from someplace) Cirrus Logic CL-GD5422 ISA w/512k (not running X) LanPro NE2000 compatible ISA ethernet 3com 3c900 PCI ethernet (supplied by cable modem folks) 3.5" floppy (only used for installation) no cdrom, no keyboard (use telnet or a switchbox), no monitor (ditto) My laptop: Chembook OHP model Intel Pentium 133 24MB RAM 1.3GB TOSHIBA IDE (700MB FreeBSD partition) Chips & Tech 65548 w/1MB (running X decently) NE2000 PCMCIA ethernet 33.6k PCMCIA modem (not yet working in FreeBSD) 3.5" Floppy, 6X IDE CDROM, keyboard (no choice about it), 10.4" LCD ESS-688 soundcard (haven't yet installed the PnP soundcard stuff) For the web server/DHCP server at work: AMD 486 40 20MB RAM 170MB ??? IDE, 130MB ??? IDE (both salvaged. on one, i resoldered the power connector) Trident 8900 ISA 512k or 1MB (not running X) LanPro NE2000 compatible ISA ethernet 3.5" floppy (for installation only) no cdrom, no monitor (ever), no keyboard (ever) i also set up a FreeBSD system for a friend. it was a DELL 486. 'nuff said. --Ludwig Pummer ludwigp@bigfoot.com ICQ UIN: 692441 http://chipweb.home.ml.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 00:07:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19858 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19847 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:07:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27354; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:37:01 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA19719; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:37:00 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980328183655.26375@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:36:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ben Ostrowsky , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Ostrowsky on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 12:04:05AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 March 1998 at 0:04:05 -0500, Ben Ostrowsky wrote: >> As it turns out, that decision has been good for everyone. > > Please speak for yourself, Sue. I'm one of a dozen people who have > expressed their interest in newbie questions, and there are probably > several dozen subscribers who have not yet told you of their interest. OK, maybe it's time for me to say a word. Sue has told you some of the history that went into setting up this mailing list. Here's a little more, coloured by my personal viewpoint. For a long time, we have had three "general" FreeBSD lists: 1. -hackers, for heavy technical discussion. 2. -questions, for questions on how to use FreeBSD. 3. -chat, for general discussion. Even with these three, we have had difficulties deciding which list to use. -hackers and -questions are the largest lists (each a little under 1000 people), and the subject matter overlaps. Where do you send a detailed technical question, for example? What we've tried to do is to draw the line between -questions and -hackers roughly along the distinction between system administration and programming. But not everybody agrees with that distinction, not everybody sticks to it. What can we do? I send out reminders every time I answer that kind of message, I send out a "How to get best results" once a week. Still people get confused, or they can't be bothered, and some even think it's worth flaming me for. One of the reasons they get confused is that many of them are newbies. Does that mean they should be relegated to a different mailing list? I don't personally think so. I don't think that newbies should use hackers to ask "I have a PPP connection now, but why doesn't Netscrape work?", but even though this sort of thing happens twice a week on -questions, I can't see much advantage in having it happen twice a week on two different mailing lists: many more people benefit from the answers on -questions than just the person who asked the question. So why do we need a fourth list? Sue thinks that many *real* newbies are a little intimidated by the activity on -questions, and that they would benefit from a different kind of discussion. Some of the answers that have gone by since the mailing list started are indicative of this. On the other hand, it would be nice to think that these real newcomers will quickly become more adept. This would make -newbies more like a reception area than a mailing list. Then there's the concept of "Auntie Sue's tea room". Maybe a bit of the flavour of IRC (I'm guessing; I've never used IRC). That's more like -chat, and maybe there's something going for it. The -chat newsgroup is frequented by the same people as on -hackers, people who have known each other for years and have a long-standing relationship with UNIX. While there's no eligibility criterion for -chat, most newbies would find it uninteresting. I'm not convinced by any of these arguments, but I thought that the idea was worthwhile enough that we should give it a try. Sue may have got the feeling that this meant "stay in your place or we'll close the list again", but that's not the way the FreeBSD project does things. It would be nice, though, for people to have a good idea of what list to use when, and having -newbies complicates that issue. If people start asking questions on -newbies, for example, there's a good chance that those who no longer think of themselves as newbies will ask *their* questions on -hackers, and -questions would die out. That in itself isn't such a bad idea. What we would then have would be a new -questions called -newbies. The name would make a better distinction from -hackers. On the other hand, the hackers are already complaining about too much volume, so the next step might be a dilution of -hackers. As you can see, it's not an easy distinction. Sue had hoped that the heavies would keep off -newbies, or at least not post any messages, but that hasn't quite happened. From what I've seen, there are a number of people active on the list who are quite experienced. This may not be a bad idea: I was the person who was concerned that questions on -newbies would give rise to a lot of misleading or just downright wrong answers. But whichever way we look at it, there's a differentiation problem. Any comments? I personally think we need to let the group develop a bit, and then we'll be able to decide. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 01:47:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27242 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-30.mail.demon.net [194.159.80.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27236 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:47:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from (ragnet.demon.co.uk) [158.152.46.40] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yIsCl-0001K7-00; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:47:12 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yIhgt-0000CO-00; Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:33:35 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980328074141.56389@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:33:34 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "John M. Purser" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Mar-98 Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: >> On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay >> [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote: >> > >> > Hi John, >> > >> > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) >> > helping out? > >> Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these >> thing >> before then speak up! > > > ... but PLEASE always move your conversation to freebsd-questions if the > matter is at all suitable for that mailing list. Answers to questions, > solutions to problems at any level belong on -questions where others can see > them. I was a bit unsure about answering directly and nearly email you for "permission" (guidance really). I guess the best is a direct reply and cc: to -questions (which I don't read). > I'm not so much worried about this one specific conversation but if I don't > respond loudly to the above comments, others will take it as being open > season. > > Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the > problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can > fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more > advanced users. > Out of interest, how do you think things are shaking out? The list has been up for a few days now and it seems to be attracting the target audience. I wonder if it is worth you creating a few standard replies to the common problems (to save you typing the same things dozens of times!). The list below is really what you already manage to handle (very patiently too!) - email formatting, and why it should be so. - questions vs. learning/hey I did this... - maybe a documentation reminder listing not only the manpages, FAQ, handbook and tutorials but other things. - a note saying don't be afraid to say to use ee and other "simple" tools, that's why they are there. A historic note: every now and then a debate on -hackers starts up on the benefits of ee and most of -core stick up for it as they see it as the best for the job (new users, commands shown on screen, and small enough to fit into the boot/install floppies). The third one could be set up as an auto responder to people posting to the list for the first time (procmail I guess). Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 02:08:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28933 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:08:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [194.119.130.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA28925 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@mildewh.u-net.com) Received: from foghorn.garner.org [194.119.189.62] by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yIscg-0003Iu-00; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:13:58 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:56:34 -0000 (GMT) Organization: Mildew Hall Online Services From: Peter T Garner To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: File transfer problems with zmodem during dial-in Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Help! I have a problem when trying to UPload files to ny FreeBSD 2.2.5 box using zmodem (lrz). One of the main reasons I run a 'BSD box is that I can dial in from work and upload program files. I can dial in OK, log in and use the vt220 terminal emulation to do practically anything. I usually connect at 28800 every time. No problem. If I then try to send files up the 'BSD box, I get lots of Zmodem errors, and the file transfer fails. If I send a file FROM the 'BSD box to my local machine, there is no problem. Now the odd thing is that I can download huge files off the Internet without trouble (admittedly not using Zmodem), and I can even boot the PC into DOS and use a comms program to download huge files. I can even get very high CPS if I use Minicom to receive files. Now now I'm starting to suspect my diallin setup. What do I need to set up in the way of parameters, and in particular, where do I put the modem init string? FWIW I'm using the standard getty.. I'd be very grateful for any info on this! TIA .. Peter ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Peter T Garner Date: 28-Mar-98 Time: 09:56:34 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 02:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01881 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:50:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01876 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09772; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:50:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <351CD60B.ABEF86E7@dal.net> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:50:51 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter T Garner CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: File transfer problems with zmodem during dial-in References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter T Garner wrote: > > Help! > > I have a problem when trying to UPload files to ny FreeBSD 2.2.5 box > using zmodem (lrz). This is very much the kind of question that should go to freebsd-questions. :) I will answer briefly to the effect that I've heard kermit works better than zmodem for what you're doing. I personally have no experience with it. If an archive search (http://www.freebsd.org/search.html) on zmodem and/or kermit; and trying kermit don't work for you, I'd follow up to -questions. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 03:50:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07055 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 03:50:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06984 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 03:49:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA05675; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:49:42 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980328224937.36797@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:49:38 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Duncan Barclay Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... References: <19980328074141.56389@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Duncan Barclay on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 10:33:34PM -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 10:33:34PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > On 27-Mar-98 Sue Blake wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > >> On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay > >> [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi John, > >> > > >> > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) > >> > helping out? > > > >> Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these > >> thing > >> before then speak up! > > > > > > ... but PLEASE always move your conversation to freebsd-questions if the > > matter is at all suitable for that mailing list. Answers to questions, > > solutions to problems at any level belong on -questions where others can see > > them. > > I was a bit unsure about answering directly and nearly email you for > "permission" (guidance really). I guess the best is a direct reply and > cc: to -questions (which I don't read). I'm not sure whether that was supposed to say -questions or -newbies? > > I'm not so much worried about this one specific conversation but if I don't > > respond loudly to the above comments, others will take it as being open > > season. > > > > Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the > > problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can > > fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more > > advanced users. > > > > Out of interest, how do you think things are shaking out? Well it seems like the other newbies are getting something out of it, but that's really for them to decide. > The list has been up for a few days now and it seems to be attracting the > target audience. I wonder if it is worth you creating a few standard > replies to the common problems (to save you typing the same things dozens > of times!). Actually now that you mention it :-) A weekly posting is due to go out today. A few people have been suggesting the kind of information they'd like to see distributed regularly, but since it was in private mail we haven't discussed it much yet. It's a lot easier to say what you want after there's something to start from. We'll see what sort of feedback the first one brings. > The list below is really what you already manage to handle > (very patiently too!) > > - email formatting, and why it should be so. I think Greg Lehey's document has that pretty much covered. We should be working towards what is expected on the other lists so it makes sense to use that one. If there's call for a slower more step by step intro we might take a look at doing that soon. > - questions vs. learning/hey I did this... It could be worth thinking some more about that one too. The "hey I did this" does seem to be popular, this week at least. > - maybe a documentation reminder listing not only the > manpages, FAQ, handbook and tutorials but other things. That's largely covered in the regular posting, and the rest will be on our resource list which should have some shape to it within a week from now. > - a note saying don't be afraid to say to use ee and other > "simple" tools, that's why they are there. Oh really? You mean it is OK to admit to using them? :-) > A historic > note: every now and then a debate on -hackers starts up > on the benefits of ee and most of -core stick up for it as they > see it as the best for the job (new users, commands shown on screen, > and small enough to fit into the boot/install floppies). > > The third one could be set up as an auto responder to people posting to the > list for the first time (procmail I guess). It would probably be easier done with majordomo in our case, but it's not a bad idea. If the regular posting and the resource list aren't enough we could consider falling back on something like that. Another thing we need help on is the technique of framing questions well. The difference between a well worded question and one that's almost impossible to answer is very obvious to those who do the answering. If it were so obvious to us we wouldn't be writing bad ones, would we! :-) That's the sort of thing that can only be learned through studying lots of examples and doing lots of practice. How we'd do that here or in a document I'm not real sure yet, but I'm working on it :-) Thanks for the suggestions! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 06:32:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21693 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com [204.87.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21688 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:32:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpurser@wilcofarmers.com) Received: from jpurser.pdx.oneworld.com (mta167.pdx.oneworld.com [143.227.39.167]) by iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA24836 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:29:28 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> From: "John M. Purser" To: "Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Confusion and Progress Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:29:25 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay folks, Apparently there's something else that doesn't work the way I expect about FreeBSD. I'm not particularly complaining, just trying to feel my way around here. So "Newbies" is not where newbies are supposed to go in order to learn enough to not be newbies any more. Okay. We're supposed to chat about our experiences. Okay. Does anyone know how I'm supposed to get experiences to chat about if I don't know enough to get any use out of my FreeBSD system? I have managed to make a PPP connection to my ISP. I can't do anything with it but I connected. John Purser To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 07:53:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02256 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.keyworld.net (root@mail.keyworld.net [194.21.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02251 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from psycho@keyworld.net) Received: from chrism (ppp78.keyworld.net [194.21.164.141]) by mail.keyworld.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA09711; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:48:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199803281548.QAA09711@mail.keyworld.net> From: "Christopher Martin at Home" To: "Greg Lehey" , "Ben Ostrowsky" , Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:49:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As you can see, it's not an easy distinction. Sue had hoped that the > heavies would keep off -newbies, or at least not post any messages, > but that hasn't quite happened. From what I've seen, there are a > number of people active on the list who are quite experienced. This > may not be a bad idea: I was the person who was concerned that > questions on -newbies would give rise to a lot of misleading or just > downright wrong answers. But whichever way we look at it, there's a > differentiation problem. > > Any comments? I personally think we need to let the group develop a > bit, and then we'll be able to decide. > > Greg Hi Greg and Folks, I think it may be a better idea to rethink the whole question. I for instance use the lists to keep a tab on developments and progress of enhancements. When I do find something interesting I relay it to my colleagues at werk. I am more involved in the business decision side of things and as such lack the necessary hands-on practick to really get into detail even though I have conceptual understanding of the way Unix works. However, from what I gather in newbies, many come from non-Unix environments and as such many of the questions would be related to their lack of awareness of basic Unix precepts. FreeBSD is very often their first Unix experience. Thus it is so much harder forthem to get to grips with, jargon, references and sometimes I think even a basic idea of what is found where unless they get hold of the FreeBSD book. It happened to me with Novell Netware as well. Coming back to my suggestion, I think newbies who have had Unix experience in system administration can go directly to questions because they are not going to be asking many of the questions newbies ask. If on the other hand, newbie questions relate to applications for FreeBSD, that is because they may not be aware of the compatibility issues. I think, what should be done is that newbies should monitor questions or at least digests. And that experienced people should monitor newbies to give that occasional helping hand. It may be a good idea though to publish diagrammatic representations of the Unix directory tree for people who are totally new to Unix and a synopsis of what files are found where and a basic explanation of their functions: e.g. os kernels, ports, drivers, user related stuff etc. It may also be a good idea to give a rough explanation on similarities and differences between the bootstrap process in Unix and DOS/Windows devices (i.e. where the conf files come in etc.) This could be published on the web-site and used as a basic reference for all the newbies prior to going ahead. Do not get the false idea that I know what I am speaking about. I stand to be corrected or directed to a site which may already have this up for reading. What do you think? Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 08:29:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06337 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from filesafe.net (root@taxsys.com [206.224.95.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06323 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:29:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sales@taxsys.com) Received: from taxsys.com (209-113-28-56.insync.net [209.113.28.56]) by filesafe.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03091; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:30:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <351D2585.DA0AF9DC@taxsys.com> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:29:58 -0600 From: Will Lockler Organization: Tax Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Martin at Home CC: Greg Lehey , Ben Ostrowsky , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <199803281548.QAA09711@mail.keyworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > > As you can see, it's not an easy distinction. Sue had hoped that the > > heavies would keep off -newbies, or at least not post any messages, > > but that hasn't quite happened. From what I've seen, there are a > > number of people active on the list who are quite experienced. This > > may not be a bad idea: I was the person who was concerned that > > questions on -newbies would give rise to a lot of misleading or just > > downright wrong answers. But whichever way we look at it, there's a > > differentiation problem. > > > > Any comments? I personally think we need to let the group develop a > > bit, and then we'll be able to decide. > > > > Greg > > Hi Greg and Folks, > > I think it may be a better idea to rethink the whole question. > > I for instance use the lists to keep a tab on developments and progress of > enhancements. When I do find something interesting I relay it to my > colleagues at werk. I am more involved in the business decision side of > things and as such lack the necessary hands-on practick to really get into > detail even though I have conceptual understanding of the way Unix works. > > However, from what I gather in newbies, many come from non-Unix > environments and as such many of the questions would be related to their > lack of awareness of basic Unix precepts. FreeBSD is very often their first > Unix experience. Thus it is so much harder forthem to get to grips with, > jargon, references and sometimes I think even a basic idea of what is found > where unless they get hold of the FreeBSD book. > > It happened to me with Novell Netware as well. > > Coming back to my suggestion, I think newbies who have had Unix experience > in system administration can go directly to questions because they are not > going to be asking many of the questions newbies ask. > > If on the other hand, newbie questions relate to applications for FreeBSD, > that is because they may not be aware of the compatibility issues. > > I think, what should be done is that newbies should monitor questions or at > least digests. > > And that experienced people should monitor newbies to give that occasional > helping hand. > > It may be a good idea though to publish diagrammatic representations of the > Unix directory tree for people who are totally new to Unix and a synopsis > of what files are found where and a basic explanation of their functions: > e.g. os kernels, ports, drivers, user related stuff etc. It may also be a > good idea to give a rough explanation on similarities and differences > between the bootstrap process in Unix and DOS/Windows devices (i.e. where > the conf files come in etc.) > > This could be published on the web-site and used as a basic reference for > all the newbies prior to going ahead. > > Do not get the false idea that I know what I am speaking about. I stand to > be corrected or directed to a site which may already have this up for > reading. > > What do you think? > > Chris > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Chris is dead on about those of us coming from other environments needing some kind of framework upon which to hang all the new data. Will To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 09:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09870 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09824 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf91.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.91]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA17885; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:17:26 +0100 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:36:29 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Confusion and Progress To: "John M. Purser" cc: "Newbies (E-mail)" In-Reply-To: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat 28 Mar, John M. Purser wrote: > Okay folks, > > Apparently there's something else that doesn't work the way I expect about > FreeBSD. I'm not particularly complaining, just trying to feel my way around > here. Hands up all who read the charter before signing ? ;-) > I have managed to make a PPP connection to my ISP. I can't do anything with > it but I connected. What ? If your PPP connection works, you can do everything (ftp/www/mail/news). Can you ping (eg) the www-server of your ISP ? ping name.of.the.www-server.of.your.isp.com.or.whatever Ctrl C to stop cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 10:44:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19514 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:44:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postoffice.onu.edu (postoffice.onu.edu [140.228.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19502 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from n-ludban@onu.edu) Received: from austin.onu.edu (austin.onu.edu [140.228.10.1]) by postoffice.onu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00996; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:44:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:44:33 -0500 (EST) From: Neil Ludban To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? In-Reply-To: <19980328183655.26375@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > OK, maybe it's time for me to say a word. Sue has told you some of > the history that went into setting up this mailing list. Here's a > little more, coloured by my personal viewpoint. > > For a long time, we have had three "general" FreeBSD lists: > > 1. -hackers, for heavy technical discussion. > 2. -questions, for questions on how to use FreeBSD. > 3. -chat, for general discussion. Based on these definitions, the signal to noise ratio for the first two is horrible (sadly, -questions usually being the better, IMO). I haven't been following -chat as long, but it seems unlikely anyone would post anything that didn't belong. > Even with these three, we have had difficulties deciding which list to > use. -hackers and -questions are the largest lists (each a little > under 1000 people), and the subject matter overlaps. Where do you > send a detailed technical question, for example? > > What we've tried to do is to draw the line between -questions and > -hackers roughly along the distinction between system administration > and programming. But not everybody agrees with that distinction, not > everybody sticks to it. What can we do? I send out reminders every > time I answer that kind of message, I send out a "How to get best > results" once a week. Still people get confused, or they can't be > bothered, and some even think it's worth flaming me for. Anyone trying to install FreeBSD is a sysadmin. But there's a huge difference between the user at home trying to set up PPP or play Doom, a first-time ISP admin, or someone supporting 1000's of computers or 100k's of users; in background knowledge, previous experience, PC technical ability, for fun or as a job, etc... Same thing goes for programming. Just beginning C, writing something useful to run under Unix, porting or developing an application, device drivers, kernel extensions, emulating other systems, hacking internals, writing assembly for a specific architecture... > One of the reasons they get confused is that many of them are newbies. > Does that mean they should be relegated to a different mailing list? > I don't personally think so. This is your brain on Windoze 95 :-) > I don't think that newbies should use hackers to ask "I have a PPP > connection now, but why doesn't Netscrape work?", but even though this > sort of thing happens twice a week on -questions, I can't see much > advantage in having it happen twice a week on two different mailing > lists: many more people benefit from the answers on -questions than > just the person who asked the question. Perhaps the definition of technical varies too much by experience. > So why do we need a fourth list? Sue thinks that many *real* newbies > are a little intimidated by the activity on -questions, and that they > would benefit from a different kind of discussion. Some of the > answers that have gone by since the mailing list started are > indicative of this. On the other hand, it would be nice to think that > these real newcomers will quickly become more adept. This would make > -newbies more like a reception area than a mailing list. -questions has way too much traffic. Significant problems from people who have done their homework are getting the same quick "read the handbook" responses as persons who have obviously not bothered to do so. Four lists isn't nearly enough. Fewer lists means they get dominated by long time users. More lists to cover narrower topics may bother people who have to sign up to read each one, but I think it would be an improvement over not signing up because of the noise. The first new list should be -1st-install. Then split the existing technical lists into -devel and -user, and encourage the use of the -user lists for questions and general newbie chat. Developers should be the lurkers, getting feedback, answering very technical questions or making clarifications about new features. > Then there's the concept of "Auntie Sue's tea room". Maybe a bit of > the flavour of IRC (I'm guessing; I've never used IRC). That's more > like -chat, and maybe there's something going for it. The -chat > newsgroup is frequented by the same people as on -hackers, people who > have known each other for years and have a long-standing relationship > with UNIX. While there's no eligibility criterion for -chat, most > newbies would find it uninteresting. And that's one less list for newbies. We seem to be stuck in -questions. > I'm not convinced by any of these arguments, but I thought that the > idea was worthwhile enough that we should give it a try. Sue may have > got the feeling that this meant "stay in your place or we'll close the > list again", but that's not the way the FreeBSD project does things. > It would be nice, though, for people to have a good idea of what list > to use when, and having -newbies complicates that issue. If people > start asking questions on -newbies, for example, there's a good chance > that those who no longer think of themselves as newbies will ask > *their* questions on -hackers, and -questions would die out. -newbies as a name seems to have been a poor choice, but the idea is working. There needs to be a place for people who are still learning to get together and talk about their experiences, and to be able to criticize FreeBSD without someone stomping out a possible discussion with "that's the way it's always been, we have better things to do." Newbies are seeing FreeBSD for the first time, and have the enthusiasm to help make the first experience for the next new user even better. Talking with other people who would be interested in such projects helps get them going. > That in itself isn't such a bad idea. What we would then have would > be a new -questions called -newbies. The name would make a better > distinction from -hackers. On the other hand, the hackers are already > complaining about too much volume, so the next step might be a > dilution of -hackers. > > As you can see, it's not an easy distinction. Sue had hoped that the > heavies would keep off -newbies, or at least not post any messages, > but that hasn't quite happened. From what I've seen, there are a > number of people active on the list who are quite experienced. This > may not be a bad idea: I was the person who was concerned that > questions on -newbies would give rise to a lot of misleading or just > downright wrong answers. But whichever way we look at it, there's a > differentiation problem. > > Any comments? I personally think we need to let the group develop a > bit, and then we'll be able to decide. > > Greg > IMHO, questions are for -questions, newbie experiences for -newbies. Everyone was a newbie at one time, or still is in some areas. I would certainly enjoy hearing what it was like "in the old days." ;-) And someone who has written the best FreeBSD book for newbies should certainly be allowed to inititiate discussions. My own newbie status is subject to debate. I tried running FreeBSD two years ago, but got discouraged during the summer. Next fall I got it going again, but also ran DOS and NT on a daily basis. Went through several complete reinstalls (never completely intentionally) last school year, gradually giving more time and disk space to FreeBSD. Now FreeBSD runs for weeks at a time, being shut down only for quarter break or power outages. I'm an undergraduate computer science major. Sounds like an advantage, but this is a very M$-centric environment. Trying to learn Unix in isolation on archaic hardware was a real challenge. I have lots of questions that are too technical for -questions and too general for -hackers. Eventually, after a lot of reading and trial and error, I get most of it figured out. Now to find a newbie-programmers list... --Neil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 13:17:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08034 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08007 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:17:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA06783; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:17:07 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980329071703.21174@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:17:03 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Christopher Martin at Home Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <199803281548.QAA09711@mail.keyworld.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199803281548.QAA09711@mail.keyworld.net>; from Christopher Martin at Home on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 04:49:44PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 04:49:44PM +0100, Christopher Martin at Home wrote: > It may be a good idea though to publish diagrammatic representations of the > Unix directory tree for people who are totally new to Unix and a synopsis > of what files are found where and a basic explanation of their functions: > e.g. os kernels, ports, drivers, user related stuff etc. It may also be a > good idea to give a rough explanation on similarities and differences > between the bootstrap process in Unix and DOS/Windows devices (i.e. where > the conf files come in etc.) > > This could be published on the web-site and used as a basic reference for > all the newbies prior to going ahead. That's a great idea! It's an idea about documentation, and, to be fair, it belongs on the freebsd-doc mailing list. If you'd be willing to put that kind of information together then go for it! Let the -doc people know first, in case one of them has already spent the last six months slogging away at the same thing :-) (If you can't do it yourself then you may find someone who is motivated to do what you suggest) Then when it's finished, announce to freebsd-doc that it's ready for review. That's the condensed version. The full details of what to do are in a document that we were asked to review (-newbies people as well as -doc). While it's being reviewed it's at http://www.freebsd.org/~nik/dp/docproj.html Tomorrow the final version will be found at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html where it will replace a different, less informative document which is there now. Feedback was supposed to be sent to freebsd-doc (whether subscribed or not) and I haven't seen much from newbies. That might just mean that newbies are interested enough to look at documentation that is written for them, but still a little nervous about speaking up, even to say "yes I like it". I hope that's all it is, because I know several newbies would very interested in the contents of that document. > Do not get the false idea that I know what I am speaking about. I stand to > be corrected or directed to a site which may already have this up for > reading. I don't know of anything that covers all that you have mentioned, but you can get some interesting info by typing 'man hier'. That man page clears up a lot of the mysteries about which directories are where and why. Some introductory unix material might cover what you want too. This week I'm putting together a list of resources that newbies have found worth looking at. More suggestions for what could be on that list are welcome. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 13:59:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14287 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:59:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14282 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA06889; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:58:59 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980329075851.37521@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:58:52 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "John M. Purser" Cc: "Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Confusion and Progress References: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 06:29:25AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 06:29:25AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > Okay folks, > > Apparently there's something else that doesn't work the way I expect about > FreeBSD. I'm not particularly complaining, just trying to feel my way around > here. > > So "Newbies" is not where newbies are supposed to go in order to learn enough > to not be newbies any more. Not quite. Learning, and learning to learn, are part of -newbies. Being instructed is not. To escape newbiehood you'll need both, but unless you spend a lot more time learning than being instructed you'll be a newbie forever. That's why some of us spend more time here than on -questions. > Okay. > > We're supposed to chat about our experiences. > > Okay. > > Does anyone know how I'm supposed to get experiences to chat about if I don't > know enough to get any use out of my FreeBSD system? Sure! You ask the question you just asked, here :-) One thing that drives me craaaaaaazy is not knowing what to do first, and what to do next. Every week someone points out yet another thing that I "should have learned first" when it's too late. Nobody ever offers a sequential list, so how am I supposed to know? How am I supposed to do it right? Every piece of documentation makes assumptions about prior knowledge though the prerequisites are rarely stated. I'd like to see a step by step list of documents to be read, concepts to become familiar with, etc, so that if I did do all of those things in sequence nobody could ever blame me for being slack. Unfortunately nothing like that seems to have ever existed, and nobody has been willing to put one together. If I knew more, apparently, I'd be able to see why it'd be impossible to put together such a list. So we make do with our own guesses. At least now there's other newbies going through the same frustration who we can whinge to :-) > I have managed to make a PPP connection to my ISP. I can't do anything with it > but I connected. It's a bit hard to know where you're up to from what you've said. If the PPP is working you should be able to switch over to another virtual console or xterm and fire up a web browser or whatever else you want to do. Have you tried that? What happened? Some people get this far and find their Internet apps don't work, and they're told to type something after connecting. I vaguely remember what it is but look at the mailing list archives and you'll find the acurate version. You might have a good question for freebsd-questions in there somewhere, but it looks like we'll have to extract it from you first :-) Now if you're really looking for experiences you could try installing the Midnight Commander package (mc) and see if that makes it easier to find your way around all those files. I love the way it displays logs and man pages too. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 17:37:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11984 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11977 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20008 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <351DA5D2.D45746EC@dal.net> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:37:22 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <3.0.32.19980328062831.009b6bc0@pop.mpc.com.br> <351C451A.F7897291@dal.net> <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I put off responding to this thread so that others would have a chance to voice their opinions. I am pleased to see that they have. :) Sue Blake wrote: [history ellided] > If anyone had a better idea for how to make this work and sincerely wished > to do something constructive in the long term, they should have spoken up > and volunteered their own efforts last month, last year, and the year > before, when newbies asked for their own space and everyone was too busy > hacking to lift a damn finger. Actually I did speak up. Your response was that you wanted a mailing list for newbies and that was your only interest, whether it was a good idea or not. [snip] > > I have and will continue to keep my posts to this lists few and > > far between. > > And as moderator In what sense of the word? I can't imagine that this list is actually set up moderated (as in majordomo-wise) so your use of the word "moderator" in this context translates into "a person who wants to impose my will on the list" which I don't think is healthy or productive for anyone. If this list is in fact moderated, please let us all know. I personally will unsubscribe, and I imagine that quite a few others would as well. [snip] > Now if you or anyone else cares to dispute the validity of those concerns or > the wisdom of this decision, debate it by all means, but not here. The issue > should be returned to freebsd-chat where it started, and where there's > several people who have an interest in the original discussion. I disagree. If the people using the list can't discuss how the list is run on the list, something is wrong. > Being the moderator this makes me extremely unpopular, Once again, I'd like a clear definition of what you mean here. [snip] > Weak Disclaimer: For those who are new, Doug and I are like the dog and cat > of the community at the moment :-) I don't appreciate your attempt to characterize me as opposing you on a personal level. As I've stated elsewhere I have a great deal of experience in customer service and technical support and I have different ideas about the best way to help new users learn FreeBSD and relate to the rest of the user community. This is not personal now, wasn't personal when the conversation began and won't ever become personal from where I sit. In fact it seems to me that you have far more personally invested in this than most anyone else, not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Are there other new users who'd like to speak out on this topic? What do YOU see as the value of a new users list? What kind of things would you like to see discussed? I personally am very intersted in *specifically* why people feel uncomfortable posting to or reading -questions. All of us had a very first day using a freebsd system, even the most seasoned veteran. Don't let the fact that some people know more about something than you do intimidate you, that will always be true in all areas of life. :) Eager to hear from you, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 17:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13486 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pagesz.net (root@nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13474 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jferg@2boot.com) Received: from .pagesz.net (isabella-62.pagesz.net [208.194.157.62]) by pagesz.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA29467; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:37:50 -0500 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 98 21:29:33 PST From: joe ferguson Subject: RE: Confusion and Progress To: "John M. Purser" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.6.3, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John: A frequent source of problems at the stage you reached (eg, ppp connection but nothing beyoud) is that the DNS is not set up correctly. Since you didn't describe any symptoms, it's just a guess, but I've seen it before. ------------------------------------- Name: joe ferguson E-mail: jferg@2boot.com VOICE 919-468-8150 FAX: 919-468-5288 http://www.2boot.com Date: 3/28/98 Time: 9:29:33 PM . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 21:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29885 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29874 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:04:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07812; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 15:04:42 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980329150439.24888@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 15:04:39 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? References: <3.0.32.19980328062831.009b6bc0@pop.mpc.com.br> <351C451A.F7897291@dal.net> <19980328142134.33048@welearn.com.au> <351DA5D2.D45746EC@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <351DA5D2.D45746EC@dal.net>; from Studded on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 05:37:22PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 05:37:22PM -0800, Studded wrote: > > If anyone had a better idea for how to make this work and sincerely wished > > to do something constructive in the long term, they should have spoken up > > and volunteered their own efforts last month, last year, and the year > > before, when newbies asked for their own space and everyone was too busy > > hacking to lift a damn finger. > > Actually I did speak up. Your response was that you wanted a mailing > list for newbies and that was your only interest, whether it was a good > idea or not. Half right. My argument was that Doug didn't understand the list's purpose because he came in at the tail end and misinterpreted the objectives as well as the process we had gone through. The others had basically agreed to trial a list that did not offer support; Doug wanted large scale reform to the whole FreeBSD support process and saw this list only in terms of the result of that process, somewhere down the line. True, I didn't give two hoots whether Doug thought it was a good idea or not. I was only interested in what the other newbies could do if given the opportunity to try, and said so. I have written to Doug privately, explaining that I used the term "moderator" in the sense of keeping things on track. I disagree with most of what Doug said, but to argue against it here would be a burden to this list, and I would rather you think badly of me than disrupt the list's progress. It is, after all, my job to keep things on track. I have asked Doug to explain to us why he didn't want this list to start, and why he is still battling against it. If I have misunderstood he deserves this opportunity to explain. I have also suggested that if he thinks that a support list for newbies is a good idea which will not result in social division, then he should go right ahead and start one, and take on all the responsibilities that would go along with another support list. And I asked him to explain why he believes our list could not coexist with either a support list for newbies or whatever else it is he'd like to see happen one day. It is no secret that I wish Doug were not here in determined opposition to the objectives of this list, just as he made no secret of this intention. However, if he chooses to reply to these questions I'm sure we'd all like to know what he has in mind and how he plans to execute it. I'm getting tired of seeing so many people's work criticised without alternatives being offered. It's about time we saw more appreciation and some positive action. If Doug takes a reasonable approach and I get no complaints from the newbies who this list is for, I will try to keep out of it while he explains. Please hear him out. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 28 23:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13516 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:03:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13360 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28561; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:33:18 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA22881; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:33:17 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980329163317.21928@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:33:17 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "John M. Purser" , "Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Confusion and Progress References: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <01BD5A12.DC3C6A60.jpurser@wilcofarmers.com>; from John M. Purser on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 06:29:25AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 28 March 1998 at 6:29:25 -0800, John M. Purser wrote: > Okay folks, > > Apparently there's something else that doesn't work the way I expect about > FreeBSD. I'm not particularly complaining, just trying to feel my way around > here. > > So "Newbies" is not where newbies are supposed to go in order to learn enough > to not be newbies any more. > > Okay. > > We're supposed to chat about our experiences. > > Okay. > > Does anyone know how I'm supposed to get experiences to chat about if I don't > know enough to get any use out of my FreeBSD system? > > I have managed to make a PPP connection to my ISP. I can't do anything with it > but I connected. Thanks. You make my point exactly. This is exactly the question that I mentioned in my (far too long) message yesterday about why you should send this message to -questions. It's a FAQ, it gets answered twice a week on -questions--in fact, I just answered one of them there about 10 minutes ago. Why should we repeat the questions on -newbies? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message