From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 29 02:00:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28136 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 02:00:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA28121 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 01:59:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2010213; 29 Mar 98 9:56 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yJ2CU-0000a3-00; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:27:34 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:27:33 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28-Mar-98 Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 10:33:34PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: >> >> On 27-Mar-98 Sue Blake wrote: >> > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote: >> >> On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay >> >> [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hi John, >> >> > >> >> > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years) >> >> > helping out? >> > >> >> Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these >> >> thing >> >> before then speak up! >> > >> > >> > ... but PLEASE always move your conversation to freebsd-questions if the >> > matter is at all suitable for that mailing list. Answers to questions, >> > solutions to problems at any level belong on -questions where others can >> > see >> > them. >> >> I was a bit unsure about answering directly and nearly email you for >> "permission" (guidance really). I guess the best is a direct reply and >> cc: to -questions (which I don't read). > > I'm not sure whether that was supposed to say -questions or -newbies? > It was meant to say -questions! >> > I'm not so much worried about this one specific conversation but if I >> > don't >> > respond loudly to the above comments, others will take it as being open >> > season. >> > >> > Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix >> > the >> > problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can >> > fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more >> > advanced users. >> > >> >> Out of interest, how do you think things are shaking out? > > Well it seems like the other newbies are getting something out of it, but > that's really for them to decide. > >> The list has been up for a few days now and it seems to be attracting the >> target audience. I wonder if it is worth you creating a few standard >> replies to the common problems (to save you typing the same things dozens >> of times!). > > Actually now that you mention it :-) A weekly posting is due to go out > today. > A few people have been suggesting the kind of information they'd like to see > distributed regularly, but since it was in private mail we haven't discussed > it much yet. It's a lot easier to say what you want after there's something > to start from. We'll see what sort of feedback the first one brings. > >> The list below is really what you already manage to handle >> (very patiently too!) >> >> - email formatting, and why it should be so. > > I think Greg Lehey's document has that pretty much covered. We should be > working towards what is expected on the other lists so it makes sense to use > that one. If there's call for a slower more step by step intro we might take > a look at doing that soon. > Maybe a pointer to this would be helpful in the weekly posting. >> - questions vs. learning/hey I did this... > > It could be worth thinking some more about that one too. > The "hey I did this" does seem to be popular, this week at least. > >> - maybe a documentation reminder listing not only the >> manpages, FAQ, handbook and tutorials but other things. > > That's largely covered in the regular posting, and the rest will be on our > resource list which should have some shape to it within a week from now. > >> - a note saying don't be afraid to say to use ee and other >> "simple" tools, that's why they are there. > > Oh really? You mean it is OK to admit to using them? :-) > >> A historic >> note: every now and then a debate on -hackers starts up >> on the benefits of ee and most of -core stick up for it as they >> see it as the best for the job (new users, commands shown on >> screen, >> and small enough to fit into the boot/install floppies). >> >> The third one could be set up as an auto responder to people posting to the >> list for the first time (procmail I guess). > > It would probably be easier done with majordomo in our case, but it's not a > bad idea. If the regular posting and the resource list aren't enough we could > consider falling back on something like that. > > Another thing we need help on is the technique of framing questions well. > The difference between a well worded question and one that's almost > impossible to answer is very obvious to those who do the answering. If it > were so obvious to us we wouldn't be writing bad ones, would we! :-) > That's the sort of thing that can only be learned through studying lots of > examples and doing lots of practice. How we'd do that here or in a document > I'm not real sure yet, but I'm working on it :-) > One thing I've just thought of is how to deal with non-native english speakers. Some of these people post some very convoluted questions which is purely down to poor language skills on both sides. How about asking for volunteers/whatever to be available for translation/replying in a native language? > > Thanks for the suggestions! > --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 29 19:32:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04173 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04052; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:32:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03820; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:33:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980329223358.11226@vmunix.com> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:33:58 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Matthew Fuller , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for review: installation References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew Fuller on Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:13:53PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:13:53PM -0600, Matthew Fuller wrote: > I've redone the installation documentation, from scratch basically. It > consists now of two parts: the installation instructions, which guide you > through the installation from your decision to run FreeBSD, and the > installation checklist, which details the things you need and how to > prepare for the installation. I'd like to get some reviewers on this. > I'll read over your document - BTW, have you checked out the effort Chris Coleman and I started at http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ ? We also wrote an entire section on the installation.. -Mark > I've CC:'d newbies since there's probably a fair number of people there > fresh from the install who could give some unique viewpoints on it. > > The instructions are at: > http://mortis.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/install.html > They're pretty rough at the moment, as I haven't had time to polish them > up with the press of other work. But I think they're pretty thorough. > Let me know what you think! > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | > * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * > | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| > * fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * > | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 29 20:17:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08428 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07854 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA08438; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:20:21 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980329212018.62300@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:20:18 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Duncan Barclay on Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 08:27:33PM -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 08:27:33PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > Another thing we need help on is the technique of framing questions well. > > The difference between a well worded question and one that's almost > > impossible to answer is very obvious to those who do the answering. If it > > were so obvious to us we wouldn't be writing bad ones, would we! :-) > > That's the sort of thing that can only be learned through studying lots of > > examples and doing lots of practice. How we'd do that here or in a document > > I'm not real sure yet, but I'm working on it :-) > > > > One thing I've just thought of is how to deal with non-native english speakers. > Some of these people post some very convoluted questions which is purely > down to poor language skills on both sides. How about asking for > volunteers/whatever to be available for translation/replying in a native > language? That's an interesting idea, though native English speakers don't always express themselves well either :-) I'd like to hear what speakers of other languages think of the idea, and how they would like it to be used. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 29 21:00:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07808 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07788 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05946 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:00:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <351F26F1.26AC85E2@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:00:33 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: *Wave* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Somehow I was magically unsubscribed from this list, apparently right before my post last night. If anyone posted something in response that they'd like me to see (on that or any other topic), please forward me a copy. Thanks, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 29 21:27:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11894 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:27:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11864 for ; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10255; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:26:59 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980330152656.46648@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:26:56 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Studded Cc: Freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: *Wave* References: <351F26F1.26AC85E2@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <351F26F1.26AC85E2@san.rr.com>; from Studded on Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 09:00:33PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 09:00:33PM -0800, Studded wrote: > Somehow I was magically unsubscribed from this list, apparently right > before my post last night. If anyone posted something in response that > they'd like me to see (on that or any other topic), please forward me a > copy. No magic. In fact, I think the magic stopped flowing for all of us for a few hours. All seems OK now though. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 01:48:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04859 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 01:48:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04854 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 01:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA00379; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:02:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:02:41 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199803300902.KAA00379@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Joey Garcia Cc: Capriotti , "John M. Purser" , "FreeBSD Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Re: John's Progress Report - The Saga Continues In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19980328011806.00938950@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Disposition-notification-to: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia writes: > Heheheh, wanna start a religious war? How about Emacs vs Vi. Now that > would be a hella war. :) Although, I'm not an expert at either one of > them, but I like xemacs cause I can point and click. :) > I started using emacs before there was xwindows, so it gave me multiple windows on a dumb terminal screen I still use it (x and non-x versions) for my e-mail reader/composer (user agent) my development environment (integilgent make/correct source and debug) I can point,click,cut and paste my shell (within emacs, and from kshell) my source code editor (it understand C synctax enough to help with missing brackets etc, does indentation etc - and other languages ) I don't read news much, but if I did... it has it's faults, but it has so much going for it nowdays my fingers know the commands without my having to tell them, so I'm not about to change to anything else. I know vi and ed enough to work when I visit other sites, at least they are universally available on all unix systems... I find it's really useful to know ed, for mending very broken systems, for speed and simplicity, across slow network links, at other sites. What does linux have as it's basic editors ? ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 02:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06542 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 02:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06534 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 02:03:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10953; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:03:30 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980330200328.04245@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:03:28 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD-Newbies first aid kit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies first aid kit (29 March 1998) This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, promoting FreeBSD among our friends, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: Mailing lists When you have a problem or want to ask for help, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is currently being put together. It will include books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 09:31:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05588 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05563 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA17810 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017808; Mon Mar 30 09:30:41 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA15302; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199803301730.JAA15302@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rant: What are we? Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Various folks have said lots of things regarding the "character" of FreeBSD-newbies. I would like to emphasize a point that was mentioned earlier: each of us is a "newbie" about something. >From reading messages on this list, I get the impression that most of these message are from folks who are new to UNIX. My background is different: I've been administering UNIX systems since 1986 (and other types of systems since 1969). However, until about a month ago, I had never done anything on a FreeBSD system (though I did do some things with BSD/OS systems about 3 or 4 years ago...). And I will also confess that my major was Information & Computer Science.... (Further, I use FreeBSD only at work. At home, I use SunOS 4.x & Solaris 2.x, with which I'm far more familiar....) However, dealing with FreeBSD as a fairly straightforward BSD UNIX system is not where I find all that much mystery. That role is reserved for the PC hardware... and the BIOS peculiarities... and trying to imagine what someone who has evidently been using this kind of hardware in other (such as M$) environments might be meaning. (I do not, and will not, knowingly use M$ products.) There seems to be a presumption that the person administering the machine will have a knowledge of the hardware implementations that I find astonishing -- and unless I happen to be lucky enough to actually have the documentation that came with a given system, I have no way of knowing what cards are in it, what kind of CPU it has, or much of anything else. (Well, that's not strictly true: I found that by watching the messages at boot-time, the kernel issues messages about what it thinks it found, and the "dmsg" command displays a copy of these, usually.) Also, my interest in FreeBSD is "different" from (some) others, in that my responsibility is maintaining a set of FreeBSD (and a couple of Solaris) boxes for other folks (so they can get their work done). To that end, for example, I'm concerned with such things as ensuring that the server machines run well with minimal disruption (which implies a lot). Back to the topic: folks who are "new" to FreeBSD each have areas of "newbie-ness" & areas of knowledge. All it takes is for a single area (whether it be the software or the hardware) to be unfamiliar for a person to feel like a newbie.... Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 10:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23259 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23218 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:58:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12880; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:06:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980329210625.01795@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:06:25 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: anthony@sohopros.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD sticker? References: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980324215958.00856c30@pop.flash.net>; from anthony@sohopros.com on Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:00:00PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, my name's Nik and I. . . . . . use FreeBSD. I suppose by some people's reckoning I'm a bit of an old hand, since I've been using it since the beginning of 1995. That still makes me pretty new to it when compared with some folk though, and doesn't mean I don't ask the occasional stupid question either . I'm interested in trying to make FreeBSD more accessible to the new user and improving the documentation set, which is the main reason I'm reading this mailing list. I also try and answer questions (where I can) on -questions and -hackers, and I reckon this list will give me a handy insight in what people new to FreeBSD are running in to. With a bit of luck I'll be able to offer some advice (if it's wanted) on the best way to find out answers to questions without needing to resort to the mailing lists, and pick up some advice from everyone else on the list on how to help make the documentation more useful. Anyway, with that out of the way; On Tue, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:00:00PM -0600, anthony@sohopros.com wrote: > Dose anyone know if there is such thing as a FreeBSD > sticker? If so where can I get one? I would like to > have one to stick on my car. I'm not kidding I would > like to have one. This comes up every now and then on the mailing lists, and normally, not a lot gets done about it. A notable exception was (I think) Jo"erg Wunsch, who liased with a factory in Germany to get some soft toys made (I don't know if they're still in production, searching the mailing list archives (on the FreeBSD web site) for the words "daemon" and "plushie" should turn up something). Anyway, if anyone's interested in doing this, here's one way to do it (based on experience with other people doing similar things). - First: be prepared to do this because you want to do it, not because you think you might make a bit of money from it. It's a long, often thankless task, and at the end of it you'll be wishing you never see another sticker (or stamp) in your life. Expect the whole thing (from start to finish) to take maybe three or four months. - Get someone who can do the artwork. Either a volunteer from the mailing list(s) and/or newsgroups, or a friend, or whatever. - Hold an informal discussion about the artwork. Solicit suggestions for what people want on it. - Get the artwork done. If you're really flash you'll get a couple of alternatives done that people can vote for. - Get the artwork to Marshall Kirk McKusick who owns the copyright on the daemon picture. Ask for his approval. It might be worth looking at - Put together an announcement saying "We've got the artwork, we want to know how many people would be interested in this, and how much they want to pay". Mail it to -core and ask someone to send it to the -announce mailing list and newsgroup. At the same time, ask Jordan (jkh@freebsd.org) whether Walnut Creek would be interested in handling the processing of payments for this thing. You do the announcement at this step rather than at the beginning so that people (a) have some artwork to see, so they know what they're getting, (b) also see that some of the work's been done, so this may actually happen, unlike the other attempts. Be prepared to get lots of questions from people about this. Be prepared to put together a small FAQ about the process, and ask that this be included somewhere on the FreeBSD site so you can point people to it. - You've now got an idea of how many people will go for this. You may now decide to not go any further, if the response is too low. Alternatively, there are lots of responses. This is good. - Put together another announcement, saying that due to the overwhelming response, the stickers will be produced. You would appreciate people coming forward if (a) they happen to have contacts for sticker printing businesses in their country, (b) they're willing to handle the remailing for all the people that want stickers in their country (because it's easier to send one parcel containing lots of stickers to remail in one country than it is to send lots of small parcels to the same country. It's cheaper too. - Find one or more sticker printing companies. Get quotes. Find out about deals when ordering in bulk, that sort of thing. Get the lead time from the printing company, so you know how long to warn people to wait for. - Work out how much to sell the stickers for. People tend to get antsy if these things aren't done at cost. I'd suggest the volunteer be prepared to open a separate bank account, and make available some accounts (nothing fancy, but something that shows "I had this much cash sent to me, I spent this much, the balance is 0". Work out how you want people to get the money to you. - Post yet another message, outlining the costs, and ways to pay. Explain that it's not being done for profit. State that any money left over (perhaps the printing company suddenly offers an extra discount or something) will be sent to the FreeBSD project. I suggest that the announcement includes a cut-off date and a minimum order. Explain that the first batch of stickers will not be produced until one week after the cut-off date (to allow time for the money to come in) and that if the total number of stickers ordered is below 'x' then it's uneconomic to do it and people's money will be returned to them. - Wait for the money to roll in. Make damn sure you keep track of everyone's name and address, the amount they paid and so on. - Order the stickers. Keep people informed of how they're doing. Promptly explain any delays that happen in the printing process (or whatever). - Make sure they're mailed out ASAP. - Bask in the adulation you receive when folks get their stickers. That about covers it. Simple huh :-) ? It might be worth doing a web search for "Joel Furr". He used to do this kind of thing four or five years ago with coffee mugs and t-shirts (things like "The Internet is full, go away" slogans and the like). He used to have a web page that outlined his experiences with the whole thing, but I don't know if it's still around. Hope that's useful. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 11:38:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01704 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:38:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mortis.futuresouth.com ([209.45.209.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01608; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:37:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by mortis.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00222; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:38:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:38:49 -0600 (CST) From: Matthew Fuller X-Sender: fullermd@mortis To: Mark Mayo cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for review: installation In-Reply-To: <19980329223358.11226@vmunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Mark Mayo wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:13:53PM -0600, Matthew Fuller wrote: > > I've redone the installation documentation, from scratch basically. It > > consists now of two parts: the installation instructions, which guide you > > through the installation from your decision to run FreeBSD, and the > > installation checklist, which details the things you need and how to > > prepare for the installation. I'd like to get some reviewers on this. > > > > I'll read over your document - BTW, have you checked out > the effort Chris Coleman and I started at > http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ ? > > We also wrote an entire section on the installation.. > > -Mark I did look at that. It IS a wonderful set of information on installation, but, IMNHO (In My Never Humble Opinion ;), far too long. My goal was to produce something short, simple, and reasonably thorough; something that could be read as a distinct piece of documentation in 5 or 10 minutes. The section you have there is very well suited for a section or a chapter of a book, but I'm aiming at a slightly more immediate (and more impatient, probably) need here. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 30 13:59:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01613 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01460; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06723; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:01:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980330170101.11679@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:01:01 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Matthew Fuller Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for review: installation References: <19980329223358.11226@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew Fuller on Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 01:38:49PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 01:38:49PM -0600, Matthew Fuller wrote: > On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Mark Mayo wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 08:13:53PM -0600, Matthew Fuller wrote: > > > I've redone the installation documentation, from scratch basically. It > > > consists now of two parts: the installation instructions, which guide you > > > through the installation from your decision to run FreeBSD, and the > > > installation checklist, which details the things you need and how to > > > prepare for the installation. I'd like to get some reviewers on this. > > > > > > > I'll read over your document - BTW, have you checked out > > the effort Chris Coleman and I started at > > http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ ? > > > > We also wrote an entire section on the installation.. > > > > -Mark > I did look at that. > It IS a wonderful set of information on installation, but, IMNHO (In My > Never Humble Opinion ;), far too long. My goal was to produce something > short, simple, and reasonably thorough; something that could be read as a > distinct piece of documentation in 5 or 10 minutes. The section you have > there is very well suited for a section or a chapter of a book, but I'm > aiming at a slightly more immediate (and more impatient, probably) need > here. Cool. Sounds like a great idea. Good luck! -Mark > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | > * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * > | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| > * fullermd@mortis.futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * > | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 17:26:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10417 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10371 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3i-33.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.178]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA16942 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:23:53 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980331172649.0069c33c@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:26:49 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: Did I get dropped from the list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I haven't receieved any email which I find strange. Did I get dropped? Bear To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 18:49:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22354 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:49:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22343 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17708; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:48:40 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980401124837.34784@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:48:38 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Joey Garcia Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? References: <3.0.1.32.19980331172649.0069c33c@pacificnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980331172649.0069c33c@pacificnet.net>; from Joey Garcia on Tue, Mar 31, 1998 at 05:26:49PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 31, 1998 at 05:26:49PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > > I haven't receieved any email which I find strange. Did I get dropped? No, the whole list stopped for most of the day yesterday (depending on where your time zone is) and since then we've all been busy doing other things, probably reading man pages :-) Do you have as much trouble understanding man pages as I do? They make a bit of sense once the material is familiar, but for learning how to do something new it's pretty hard to work out. You need to be able to take a few concise hints and extrapolate from there to discover how to make use of the info. Is that how it seems to you or not? Have you ever seen anything that helps people understand and use man pages in general? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 19:23:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27501 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27471; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804010323.TAA27471@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980331172649.0069c33c@pacificnet.net> from Joey Garcia at "Mar 31, 98 05:26:49 pm" To: bear@pacificnet.net (Joey Garcia) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:23:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > > > I haven't receieved any email which I find strange. Did I get dropped? > looks like your email connection to the net could use some help....time to switch ISP's ?? freebsd-announce:bear@pacificnet.net freebsd-newbies:bear@pacificnet.net jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve JMB193 http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 19:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28675 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:33:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28647; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17865; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:33:14 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980401133310.62661@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:33:10 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? References: <3.0.1.32.19980331172649.0069c33c@pacificnet.net> <199804010323.TAA27471@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199804010323.TAA27471@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Tue, Mar 31, 1998 at 07:23:35PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 31, 1998 at 07:23:35PM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > > > > I haven't receieved any email which I find strange. Did I get dropped? > > > > looks like your email connection to the net > could use some help....time to switch ISP's ?? > > freebsd-announce:bear@pacificnet.net > freebsd-newbies:bear@pacificnet.net I'm not sure if I understand. Do people get automatically unsubscribed from lists if their mail bounces? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 20:01:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02502 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02491; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804010400.UAA02491@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? In-Reply-To: <19980401133310.62661@welearn.com.au> from Sue Blake at "Apr 1, 98 01:33:10 pm" To: sue@welearn.com.au (Sue Blake) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:00:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, bear@pacificnet.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 1998 at 07:23:35PM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > > > > > > > I haven't receieved any email which I find strange. Did I get dropped? > > > > > > > looks like your email connection to the net > > could use some help....time to switch ISP's ?? > > > > freebsd-announce:bear@pacificnet.net > > freebsd-newbies:bear@pacificnet.net > > > I'm not sure if I understand. > > Do people get automatically unsubscribed from lists if their mail bounces? > absolutely. bounce more than about 30 messages and day expect to be removed. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 21:00:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11959 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11889 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:59:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3h-3.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.100]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03359 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:58:02 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980331210054.006962ec@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:00:54 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: Bouncing Email Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, what do you really mean (or what does it mean) by 'bouncing email'. What goes on? Anyone know? Bear To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 21:05:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12649 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:05:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12640; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804010505.VAA12640@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Bouncing Email In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980331210054.006962ec@pacificnet.net> from Joey Garcia at "Mar 31, 98 09:00:54 pm" To: bear@pacificnet.net (Joey Garcia) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > > Okay, what do you really mean (or what does it mean) by 'bouncing email'. > What goes on? Anyone know? bouncing mail is returning mail to the sender because it is undeliverable. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 21:47:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16219 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:47:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16209 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:47:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15080 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:56:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:49:16 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bouncing Email (fwd) Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Okay, what do you really mean (or what does it mean) by 'bouncing email'. > What goes on? Anyone know? Bouncing E-mail, simplified Process... 1. Sender contacts recpient via normal Internet transfer protocols. 2. Sender sends E-mail. If E-mail address is invalid, (i.e. user name spelled wrong) it 'bounces' back as an invalid address. Where the problem comes in, is that the way E-mail and the Internet is setup, E-mail messages are sent repeatedly any where from 4 hours to 5-6 days. This process itself is very intensive on the mail server. BTW, this is also the problem with replying to Spam messages with the remove line, it bounces back, causing all kinds of havoc, and further slow down at your ISP. :( It's a big weakness in the system, I've worked for an ISP that was attacked maliciosly with repeated ftp and mail requests from AOL, it actually caused our server to become so busy that clients couldn't get anywhere. On the other hand, y'all have to remeber the Internet was conceived originally as a means of communication between government and military computers in case of a Nuclear War, and as such was built from the ground up with redundancy in mind. Rick Hamell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 21:56:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17383 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:56:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from espresso.2xtreme.net (espresso.2xtreme.net [208.147.33.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17378 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:56:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrremedy@2xtreme.net) Received: from dkhill-mobl ([208.147.53.189]) by espresso.2xtreme.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34955U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA246 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:57:15 -0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:53:29 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5CEF.70E5F620.MrRemedy@2xtreme.net> From: David K Hill To: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Can some help me with this error message? arplookup XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX failed: host is not on local network Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:53:28 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org When I run the dmesg command I see an error here. The IP address is a valid IP address, but I do not know why I see this. I have just recently set up our own DNS server. The FreeBSD book did not indicate where I should look this up. The error message: arplookup 209.60.152.2 failed: host is not on local network arplookup 209.60.152.3 failed: host is not on local network Does someone with DNS experience know where I should fix this? Thanks in advance. -David K Hill http://www.ciexchange.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 31 23:36:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04399 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:36:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04369 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:36:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from skygge.myst.no (pc42.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.49]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id JAA00525 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:36:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by skygge.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05445 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:35:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: skygge.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:35:54 +0200 (CEST) From: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" X-Sender: hjv@skygge.myst.no To: FreeBSD Newbies Mailing List Subject: hm. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello... I tried to install the xfree86-contrib port; but I found that there was a lot of files that I didn't have. Lots of libraries, which _make_ told me should be in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config and in /usr/X11R6/include/X11. Also, files from the directories /include/X11/Xaw and /include/X11/Xmu were reported to be missing. So, I guess my question is; what's the problem? Is there a certain package that I need to install, or what? -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 02:00:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27105 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.dod.niss.gov.ua ([194.93.188.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27093 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vova@dod.niss.gov.ua) Received: from visa.dod.niss.gov.ua (visa.dod.niss.gov.ua [194.93.188.194]) by relay.dod.niss.gov.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28343 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:00:29 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from vova@dod.niss.gov.ua) Message-Id: <199804011000.NAA28343@relay.dod.niss.gov.ua> From: "Vladimir V. Tkatchenko" To: Subject: Power Management Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:59:54 +0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, friends! I didn't find anything about Power Management support for PC... I don't understood : can I do this subj for PC with apm or somthing like that. LINT keep silent about it. If I no have laptop I can't use the apm. Please recommend me any soft (may be I need sthomthing from ports collection?) P.S. I have UPS which made by APC Smart-UPS 600. It has an SCO support, but I can run that drivers under FreeBSD... Thank you beforehand... Vladimir V. Tkatchenko I'll be back..... Advanced user...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 02:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28560 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28522; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22243; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:14:04 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA01648; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:13:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980401111348.41681@iii.co.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:13:48 +0100 To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jfieber@FreeBSD.ORG, mbarkah@FreeBSD.ORG, paul@FreeBSD.ORG, dave@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [REVIEW] Changes to the DocProj web pages References: <19980325110053.21549@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19980325110053.21549@iii.co.uk>; from nik@iii.co.uk on Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 11:00:53AM +0000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 11:00:53AM +0000, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > Based on comments made on this list and to me in private over the past > week or so, I've made a stab at rewriting and expanding some of the > information about the project that's available on the web site. Many thanks to everyone who made suggestions and recommendations. I committed the result of all the suggestions last night, and it should soon be visible at N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 02:37:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01026 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:37:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quest.shoal.net.au (quest.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01019 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by quest.shoal.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00974; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:36:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@quest.shoal.net.au) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:36:30 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? In-Reply-To: <19980401124837.34784@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Do you have as much trouble understanding man pages as I do? They make a bit > of sense once the material is familiar, but for learning how to do something > new it's pretty hard to work out. You need to be able to take a few concise > hints and extrapolate from there to discover how to make use of the info. > > Is that how it seems to you or not? Have you ever seen anything that helps > people understand and use man pages in general? Generally, until I became more familiar with FreeBSD and unix in general I struggled a lot with the man pages. The online tutorials are good when you can find them. The FreeBSD handbook I also found good. Once I read a bit and got a bit of an overview of what particular commands did then the man pages fell into place a bit. The man pages are less of a learning tool and more of a reference tool (suitable for one with a working knowledge eg: workshop manual for mechanic). However at some stage you have to sit down in front of them, put your thinking cap on and jump to some conclusions (not always correct ones :-) ) Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 06:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03490 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03461; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804011406.GAA03461@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Bouncing Email (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Rick Hamell at "Mar 31, 98 09:49:16 pm" To: hamellr@qcsn.com (Rick Hamell) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:06:36 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > Okay, what do you really mean (or what does it mean) by 'bouncing email'. > > What goes on? Anyone know? > > Bouncing E-mail, simplified Process... > > > 1. Sender contacts recpient via normal Internet transfer protocols. > 2. Sender sends E-mail. If E-mail address is invalid, (i.e. user name > spelled wrong) it 'bounces' back as an invalid address. > > Where the problem comes in, is that the way E-mail and the Internet is > setup, E-mail messages are sent repeatedly any where from 4 hours to 5-6 > days. This process itself is very intensive on the mail server. BTW, this grr......in sendmail v.8 (what freebsd uses, as well as many if not most of the internet) you can reconfigure it to be more or less resource intensive. please do not blame either sendmail or its behavior for the configuration that you are running. you are free to set the rate at which you will accept mail set the rate at which you will attempt to deliver mail how long you will wait before bouncing mail from whom you will accept mail for whom you will relay mail and many other options please blame AOL for harboring spammers and others jmb > is also the problem with replying to Spam messages with the remove line, > it bounces back, causing all kinds of havoc, and further slow down at your > ISP. :( It's a big weakness in the system, I've worked for an ISP that was > attacked maliciosly with repeated ftp and mail requests from AOL, it > actually caused our server to become so busy that clients couldn't get > anywhere. On the other hand, y'all have to remeber the Internet was > conceived originally as a means of communication between government and > military computers in case of a Nuclear War, and as such was built from > the ground up with redundancy in mind. > > Rick Hamell > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 09:47:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14282 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:47:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14256; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19101; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:57:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:49:34 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bouncing Email (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199804011406.GAA03461@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > grr......in sendmail v.8 (what freebsd uses, as well as many > if not most of the internet) you can reconfigure it to be > more or less resource intensive. > > please do not blame either sendmail or its behavior for the > configuration that you are running. you are free to > set the rate at which you will accept mail > set the rate at which you will attempt to deliver mail > how long you will wait before bouncing mail > from whom you will accept mail > for whom you will relay mail > and many other options Thankyou, I was simply trying to simplify the process for people on this list, as it is Freebsd-NEWBIES, not freebsd-yearsofexperience. Perhaps I should have said, 'sending E-mail tends to be resource intensive' I'm not blaming Sendmail for anything, it's a great piece of software, though I understand even the author of it needs to rely on third party referances as to how it works, because of how complicated the program is. > please blame AOL for harboring spammers and others And, MSN, Hotmail, etc, etc, Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 09:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15663 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15654; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804011756.JAA15654@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Bouncing Email (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Rick Hamell at "Apr 1, 98 09:49:34 am" To: hamellr@qcsn.com (Rick Hamell) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:56:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rick Hamell wrote: > > grr......in sendmail v.8 (what freebsd uses, as well as many > > if not most of the internet) you can reconfigure it to be > > more or less resource intensive. > > > > please do not blame either sendmail or its behavior for the > > configuration that you are running. you are free to > > set the rate at which you will accept mail > > set the rate at which you will attempt to deliver mail > > how long you will wait before bouncing mail > > from whom you will accept mail > > for whom you will relay mail > > and many other options > > Thankyou, I was simply trying to simplify the process for people > on this list, as it is Freebsd-NEWBIES, not freebsd-yearsofexperience. > Perhaps I should have said, 'sending E-mail tends to be resource > intensive' I'm not blaming Sendmail for anything, it's a great piece of > software, though I understand even the author of it needs to rely on third > party referances as to how it works, because of how complicated the > program is. one step in moving from NEWBIES to yearsofexperience (as opposed to continualy repeating first year) is taking responsibility for one's own machine and one's own software configuration.....its a whole new world to those coming from "blue screen of death" and "reboot please". jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 10:04:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17413 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17400; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (ami-chan.circle-path.org [207.149.233.16]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19246; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:14:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:06:48 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bouncing Email (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199804011756.JAA15654@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Thankyou, I was simply trying to simplify the process for people > > on this list, as it is Freebsd-NEWBIES, not freebsd-yearsofexperience. > > Perhaps I should have said, 'sending E-mail tends to be resource > > intensive' I'm not blaming Sendmail for anything, it's a great piece of > > software, though I understand even the author of it needs to rely on third > > party referances as to how it works, because of how complicated the > > program is. > > one step in moving from NEWBIES to yearsofexperience > (as opposed to continualy repeating first year) > is taking responsibility for one's own machine and > one's own software configuration.....its a whole new > world to those coming from "blue screen of death" > and "reboot please". And perhaps another step would be the process of learning how to do all this, or simply learning that it CAN be done. Once that process is complete, or half complete, then you can talk to the system administrator about taking such actions. After all, a user does not usually have access to reconfigure UNIX machines of any flavor, beyond their own login shell. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 11:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02821 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com (ns2.ibo.ch [194.191.169.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02813 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com) From: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com Received: from mailhub by i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA28667; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:40:55 +0200 Received: from pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs (pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs [168.246.161.82]) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01485; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:41:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804011941.VAA01485@mta3.is.chbs> Received: by pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:40:48 +0100 To: sue@welearn.com.au Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Did I get dropped from the list? Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:34:28 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I find that man pages that include examples are the most helpful. They can talk about switches and options till they're blue in the face, but it doesn't click for me till I see a few concrete examples of the command at work. Not all man pages I've seen include examples, although I think some have example headings that are blank (I could be wrong, my memory is not as good as it was). For the most part the man pages are a very handy reference, and taken with other materials (books, FAQs, online docs) they help my learning process as a whole. -- Neal Tillery -- neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com > ---------- > From: Sue Blake[SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 8:48 PM > To: Joey Garcia > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Did I get dropped from the list? > > > Do you have as much trouble understanding man pages as I do? They make > a bit > of sense once the material is familiar, but for learning how to do > something > new it's pretty hard to work out. You need to be able to take a few > concise > hints and extrapolate from there to discover how to make use of the > info. > > Is that how it seems to you or not? Have you ever seen anything that > helps > people understand and use man pages in general? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 18:11:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26049 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25969 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-14.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.63]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08367 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:09:02 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980401181150.00698f34@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 18:11:50 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: Magazine Article (Performance Computing) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all! I aquired a Unix Review Performance Computing magazine and it had a letter from some guy that gave FreeBSD a good mention. It's on page 9 of the April '98 issue. It's nice to see that people in the corporate world using FreeBSD. It just goes to show that FreeBSD rocks!! :) Bear To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 1 23:28:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13589 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx1.polbox.com (mx1.polbox.com [195.116.5.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13544 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbns@polbox.com) Received: from smtp.polbox.com (ppp2-cst189.warszawa.tpnet.pl [195.116.250.189]) by mx1.polbox.com (8.8.8/rev-A0) with SMTP id JAA27344 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:34:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:24:28 +0100 From: "Zdzislaw A. Kaleta" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.00 Build 1327) UNREG Reply-To: "Zdzislaw A. Kaleta" Organization: SBNS Ltd. Message-ID: <16391.980402@polbox.com> To: FreeBSD newbies Subject: faxing on FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Freebsd, How can I arrange the fax server on Free and fax clients on Win95 workstation in local network. Best regards, Zdzislaw mailto:sbns@polbox.com ----- [ REKLAMA / ADVERTISEMENT ] ---------------------------------------- Lubisz film?! Wiec na co czekasz? Przylacz sie do FILMWEBU! Pierwszy Polski Serwis Filmowy w Internecie http://www.filmweb.pl -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 00:16:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21662 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21584 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:15:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA00240; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:41:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:41:02 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804011641.RAA00240@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: David K Hill Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Can some help me with this error message? arplookup XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX failed: host is not on local network In-Reply-To: <01BD5CEF.70E5F620.MrRemedy@2xtreme.net> References: <01BD5CEF.70E5F620.MrRemedy@2xtreme.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David > When I run the dmesg command I see an error here. The IP address is a valid IP address, but I do not know why > I see this. I have just recently set up our own DNS server. The FreeBSD book did not indicate where I should look this up. > > The error message: > > arplookup 209.60.152.2 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 209.60.152.3 failed: host is not on local network > should these be addresses on your local network ? - have you entered them in your DNS data base ? - can say a little more about what you have done etc. - have you used dig &/or nslookup to check your local entries... ruth > Does someone with DNS experience know where I should fix this? > > Thanks in advance. > > -David K Hill > http://www.ciexchange.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 00:54:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01748 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:54:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk ([195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01706; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20541; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:54:08 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA03585; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:53:52 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980402095351.50685@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:53:51 +0100 To: Sue Blake Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class References: <199804020125.TAA08568@darkstar.connect.com> <19980402113719.25471@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19980402113719.25471@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 11:37:19AM +1000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How do, [ cc'd to -questions, because it answers the original posters question (in a roundabout way) and to -newbies because I think this reasonably states *my* approach to answering questions, and I want to know whether people think I'm being too harsh. When replying, please make sure that your reply goes to the correct mailing list. ] On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 11:37:19AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 07:25:46PM -0600, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > You might want to check out the errata for release 2.2.2 > > That won't necessarily help. > > Why doesn't somebody just tell this guy where the file he is missing > can be found, and leave it at that. I think this is part of the "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." philosophy, although (IMHO) Frank could have phrased his answer a little better. I just went to the search engine, and put "Login_getclass" in the mailing list search box. I looked at the results. Since this is an e-mail archive, I know that any replies *should* have "Re: " at the beginning of the subject line. Since I'm looking for answers to questions, I want to ignore anything that doesn't have "Re: " at the start of the subject, since it's probably someone else asking exactly the same question. Result #4 is the first one that looks promising, 4.Tim Moony Re: inetd[xxxx]: login_getclass: unknown class 'root' and following that link does take me to a message that explains the problem. For jollies, I did the same search on the web pages. The *very* first hit was for , and the first entry on that page is o login as root produces "login_getclass: unknown class 'root'" on system console. Fix: If you have the source distribution installed, simply cp /usr/src/etc/login.conf /etc otherwise, get it from the FreeBSD FTP site using this URL: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/etc/login.conf instead. Simply cd to /etc and then run fetch(1)> with the provided URL. As I've said (in e-mail to Sue), it's very easy to think "Ah, I've got a problem, I'll just send off a quick e-mail to the mailing lists, it's so much easier than searching." If everyone does that the lists start to drown in a sea of repeated questions. And after a while the people that do answer the questions (well, me, anyway) get bored of answering the same questions, and start to ignore them. Which benefits no one. [ In case it's not clear: that's my opinion above, and I have no idea if anyone else on -questions holds it. It's certainly not an 'official' opinion of the FreeBSD project. ] N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 04:05:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28463 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:05:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk ([195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28447; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:05:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25615; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:04:49 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA03987; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:04:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980402130431.57750@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:04:32 +0100 To: Capriotti Cc: sue@welearn.com.au, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class References: <3.0.32.19980402203119.00b419f0@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980402203119.00b419f0@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 08:31:42PM -0300 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ cc'd to -questions and -newbies again for more input. Also cc'd to -doc, since this is a documentation issue. Reply-to set to -doc, since that's *probably* the right place for this discussion. ] On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 08:31:42PM -0300, Capriotti wrote: > Also, maybe there could have a "Search" or "answers" button on > www.freebsd.org. That catches the eye and, also IMHO, works better than > "Support". There is. It's obviously not big enough :-) (it's three buttons along from the "Support" button). I've just had a look at the "Support" page. Hmm. IMHO, one of the first things that should say is something like All the FreeBSD mailing list messages and newsgroup postings are archived and can be searched. This should be your first port of call if you have a problem or question, because it is likely that someone else has had the same problem. Please be aware that every member of the mailing lists is a volunteer, and if your question has been asked (and answered) a lot they may be bored of answering it. It's in everyone's best interests if you search before posting. and then a link to the search page. And then the search page should have a "Tips for effective searching" link at the top, probably something like: Finding information in the FreeBSD archives can be a fine art, the mastery of which can make your life much easier. Please see these _tips for effective searching_ for more information. "Tips for effective searching" then looks something like Error messages If you are having a problem that is generating a specific error message, try searching for the error message. Replies Most e-mail and newsgroup replies start with "Re: ". Searching for this will find all the replies and not the original message. Chances are that it is the replies you are looking for. and so on. I'm sure there are more tips (including those in searchhints.html) Anyone else agree? If so, we can probably thrash out the wording a bit more and get something into shape. If some enterprising soul wants to do that then please, go for it. Otherwise I'll put it on my stack. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 04:49:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05309 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:49:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.stv.ee (www.stv.ee [195.50.193.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05302 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dima@stv.ee) Received: from stv.ee (dima2 [192.168.193.38]) by www.stv.ee (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13947; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:50:28 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <35238978.B0E60BBC@stv.ee> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:50:00 +0300 From: Dmitry Baranov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Capriotti CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware References: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00afc1d0@pop.mpc.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hei ! You are reach one ! > Ready for thriller ?? you asked for that, hehehe !! > > 486dx/4 100 MHz. 486 dx 33 > > > Diamond Edge 3d 4MB - no running X Unknown 256K - no Xwindows. > no Monitor > no Keyboard > no mice Manually attached as needed from other PC's. > 32 Mb stardard 72 pin ram 16 M 4X4 70ns non-edo. > 1.2 ide HD - on board ide controller. 540 Caviar > USRobotics 33.6K - voice not being used. 4x USR 33.6 K. > No CD-rom Same. > one PCI ne2000 (realtek) network card 1xNE2000 compatible, 3xAccton 1660, 1x IE > no floppy What for ? > Any donations ??? heheheh In cache, please ! :) RGDS. D. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 05:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10923 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10893 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:47:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from skygge.myst.no (pc52.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.59]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id PAA11735 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:47:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by skygge.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00612 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:02:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: skygge.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:02:59 +0200 (CEST) From: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" X-Sender: hjv@skygge.myst.no To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X-Server Access Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello. Is there anything I can do to prevent other users logged onto my system from running X programs on my x display? Mind you, I'm talking about *local* users; not users on other networks (xhost takes care of them, I assume). -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 07:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27039 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:26:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br ([200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26940; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:26:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node48.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.48]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA09792; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:23:59 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980403001847.00aaf100@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:20:37 -0300 To: nik@iii.co.uk From: Capriotti Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class Cc: sue@welearn.com.au, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:04 PM 4/2/98 +0100, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > >On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 08:31:42PM -0300, Capriotti wrote: >> Also, maybe there could have a "Search" or "answers" button on >> www.freebsd.org. That catches the eye and, also IMHO, works better than >> "Support". > >There is. It's obviously not big enough :-) (it's three buttons along >from the "Support" button). > [blush] Shame on me :O To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 08:35:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09897 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09875 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:34:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23387; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:34:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980403023433.63772@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:34:33 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: nik@iii.co.uk Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class References: <199804020125.TAA08568@darkstar.connect.com> <19980402113719.25471@welearn.com.au> <19980402095351.50685@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980402095351.50685@iii.co.uk>; from nik@iii.co.uk on Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 09:53:51AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 09:53:51AM +0100, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > How do, > > [ cc'd to -questions, because it answers the original posters question > (in a roundabout way) and to -newbies because I think this reasonably > states *my* approach to answering questions, and I want to know whether > people think I'm being too harsh. When replying, please make sure that > your reply goes to the correct mailing list. ] > > On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 11:37:19AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 07:25:46PM -0600, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > You might want to check out the errata for release 2.2.2 > > > > That won't necessarily help. > > > > Why doesn't somebody just tell this guy where the file he is missing > > can be found, and leave it at that. > > I think this is part of the "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. > Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." philosophy, although > (IMHO) Frank could have phrased his answer a little better. I wholeheartedly support that philosophy, but when properly applied it is easily distinguishable from the punitive teasing responses we sometimes see. If the helpful person has clearly not bothered to do the act that they are demanding of the other, they do not earn my respect. And if that omission leads to incorrect advice being given and/or gross and unproductive inconvenience to the person who is already having a hard time, then I start to lose my cool. Most of the people on -questions are great with newbies, and the quality of responses to newbies questions has improved a lot in recent months. The rare sarcastic or patronising responses are, unfortunately, the ones we tend to remember best and the ones that shape our future actions and reactions. > I just went to the search engine, and put "Login_getclass" in the mailing > list search box. OK, so you know what to do and how to squeeeeeeeeeze the best out of the search. And you've been considerate enough to show us how you'd go about it, thanks. It's a lot more than most bother to offer. I think we need to work through a lot of examples to become good at searching. When an urgent problem arises, unfortunately it's a little late to commence studying a whole range of new information gathering techniques. I've sent two people to search for the same thing recently and their searches have failed. When I've searched for it myself I've pulled out scores of arrogant inacurate and misleading responses, but who knows, the next newbie to come along might already have these skills in their genes. Now I know, if someone wants my advice on "hey, I did everything right but it's giving this error, how do I fix it" I am to give them no hints but just a huuuuge list of little tasks that will do them ever so much good, and teach them some useful skills in the process, like reading the handbook, faq, searching the mail archives _and_ the web pages, reading all of the .TXT files on the FTP site, looking for man pages and other documents, tutorials, books,... Sure, it's a lot of work but by doing it they will learn what they should have known to stop them making the same mistake again, right? Wrong. In this case it was nobody's mistake and nobody should have had to be punished or, ahem, retrained. The old 2.2.2 CD installed with this file missing, causing the problem. Nothing in the installation-related reading material, that I can recall, urges people to read the errata. Anyone who was nosey enough to read the errata would have been misled because the errata on the CD was in error. Anyone (except the lucky first few) who asked on -questions was blasted for not reading the errata on the CD, which wouldn't have done much good anyway. That was a fair while ago now, and this has gone down as a good party piece on the repetitive stupidity of newbies, when it should have been remembered as a rare example of how carelessly unthinking some of our most clever people can be, following each other like silly little soldiers. This doesn't happen often at all, and the circumstances (a huge multiple bungle) here are quite unusual. It does not serve well as an example of how questions should be asked or answered. I was there, I lived through it on this side, desperate enough to do anything to fix the problem and unable to break through. (And everyone knows how bloody-minded I can be when I want something!) Eventually I arranged for a login.conf to be delivered to my home on a floppy disk after a very long wait. The incident back then was an exceptional one, not a good example of handling questions, and not something that any of us can be proud of. This fact is sometimes overlooked for the sake of a good story at our expense. Often all newbies and all newbies problems are treated exactly the same out of sluggishness of habit. This particular problem is one which cannot be dealt with as if it were yet another premature question. The circumstances are unusual in this case, and to my eyes the reaction has been way over the top. On the other hand, some newbies are the most lazy inconsiderate greedy twits that you could possibly imagine, and they feel quite happy about asking numerous simple questions each day to save them the trouble of looking things up or attempting think for themselves. And some are quite blatant about it. When these people are pandered to, as I've watched happening in at least one case recently, I get just as annoyed. Some newbies give all of us a bad name. With a few of those people being seen a lot while we hide politely in our study rooms, and then a lack of finely tuned searching skills among newbies in general, no wonder we're all assumed to be the same. > I looked at the results. Since this is an e-mail archive, > I know that any replies *should* have "Re: " at the beginning of the > subject line. Since I'm looking for answers to questions, I want to > ignore anything that doesn't have "Re: " at the start of the subject, > since it's probably someone else asking exactly the same question. > > Result #4 is the first one that looks promising, > > 4.Tim Moony Re: inetd[xxxx]: login_getclass: unknown class 'root' > > and following that link does take me to a message that explains the > problem. > > For jollies, I did the same search on the web pages. You did a search on the web pages?? Whatever would possess you to search web pages for a thing like this? > The *very* first hit was for > , and the first > entry on that page is > > o login as root produces "login_getclass: unknown class 'root'" on system > console. > > Fix: If you have the source distribution installed, simply > cp /usr/src/etc/login.conf /etc > otherwise, get it from the FreeBSD FTP site using this URL: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/etc/login.conf > instead. Simply cd to /etc and then run fetch(1)> with the provided > URL. OK, that helps a lot! How would you have tackled searching for an answer to the problem of cron saying "Cannot fork"? I found nothing but my searching skills are clearly not up to the task yet. (Note: I found the answer by accident but still wonder how I should have found it) > As I've said (in e-mail to Sue), it's very easy to think "Ah, I've got a As I've said (in e-mail?), it's very easy to think "Ah, I've seen an > problem, I'll just send off a quick e-mail to the mailing lists, it's so answer, I'll just send off a quick e-mail to the mailing lists, it's so > much easier than searching." If everyone does that the lists start to much easier than checking." If everyone does that the lists start to > drown in a sea of repeated questions. And after a while the people that drown in a sea of repeated platitudes. And after a while the people that > do answer the questions (well, me, anyway) get bored of answering the same do try to ask good questions (well, me, anyway) get bored of the same > questions, and start to ignore them. misleading advice, and start to ignore it. > Which benefits no one. Exactly. > [ In case it's not clear: that's my opinion above, and I have no idea if > anyone else on -questions holds it. It's certainly not an 'official' > opinion of the FreeBSD project. ] Yeah, well that's just my opinion of the moment after a disk crash, an inadequate backup, and a long frustrating day. Try me again tomorrow :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 09:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22229 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:37:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22213 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Sierchio@Sun.COM) Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail3 [129.144.170.5]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id JAA07250; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:36:17 -0800 Received: from basilisk.Eng.Sun.COM (basilisk.Eng.Sun.COM [129.144.49.2]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id JAA20410; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:36:15 -0800 Received: from Sun.COM by basilisk.Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16375; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:36:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3523CC8E.F0C4D1E9@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:36:14 -0800 From: Michael Sierchio Organization: SunSoft Internet Commerce and Security X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-Server Access References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haavard J. Vaagstoel wrote: > > Hello. > > Is there anything I can do to prevent other users logged onto my system > from running X programs on my x display? Mind you, I'm talking about > *local* users; not users on other networks (xhost takes care of them, I > assume). since your display is owned by you, you'll still need to grant access by xhost localhost xhost -- Michael Sierchio Michael.Sierchio@Sun.Com SunSoft/NSG/ICS x61184/+1 650 336 1184 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 13:14:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05728 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:14:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05702 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:14:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from skygge.myst.no (pc43.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.50]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id XAA28078; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:14:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by skygge.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA01413; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:15:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: skygge.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:15:02 +0200 (CEST) From: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" X-Sender: hjv@skygge.myst.no To: Michael Sierchio cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-Server Access In-Reply-To: <3523CC8E.F0C4D1E9@Sun.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Michael Sierchio wrote: >> Is there anything I can do to prevent other users logged onto my system >> from running X programs on my x display? Mind you, I'm talking about >> *local* users; not users on other networks (xhost takes care of them, I >> assume). > >since your display is owned by you, you'll still need to grant access >by > > xhost localhost > xhost Yes, xhost would prevent users from other hosts, but I'm looking for something that can restrict access for other users on *this* host. My apologies if I was a little unclear in my last message. Oh, well. Perhaps xauth can be a solution. -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 15:40:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01649 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01253 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09994 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <352421B5.A6A76318@san.rr.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:39:33 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class References: <199804020125.TAA08568@darkstar.connect.com> <19980402113719.25471@welearn.com.au> <19980402095351.50685@iii.co.uk> <19980403023433.63772@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: Nik said: > > I think this is part of the "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. > > Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." philosophy, although > > (IMHO) Frank could have phrased his answer a little better. > > I wholeheartedly support that philosophy, but when properly applied it is > easily distinguishable from the punitive teasing responses we sometimes see. I am disturbed by this response. The fact that you think of a terse answer as "punitive and teasing" indicates to me that you're applying very negative motives to people who are just trying to help. The fact that they might not be helping in the best possible way doesn't mean they are bad people or trying to do harm. In the particular case under review, the problem with the login.conf file is well known, but not as an example of new user incompetence. It was not their fault that the file wasn't there, it was a simple error when the CD was put together. The location of the answer to that problem has been well known for months, and I myself didn't know that 2.2.2-RELEASE wasn't on the ftp site anymore until someone mentioned it. As it turns out http://www.freebsd.org/releases/ is now the place to get that information, and there is nothing wrong with pointing users to it. As long as the location of the information is correct and the information itself is accurate and reasonably complete, teaching users how to help themselves is a good thing. This is not to say that some people who answer questions in -questions couldn't use some help with their technique, but you should never attribute to malice what can more easily be attributed to lack of ability or time to be more thorough. Finally, I didn't respond to sue's post in response to my last for the simple reason that no one else indicated any interest in the topic. I don't want this to be "the doug vs. sue show," so I will simply say that sue did not accurately represent my thoughts about this list. If anyone actually is interested, mail me privately. Studded To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 22:53:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02036 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:53:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02026 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3h-26.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.123]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA15106 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:51:20 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:54:00 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: BSD Utopia? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all! Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just think it's better than the others? I was just curious. Anyways, I was wondering why there is such a choice in *BSD's. I was wondering what would happen of all the BSD project would unify in order to create one Free/Open BSD. I know it would be a utipian idea, but I guess that I just have alot of time on my hands to think about these things. (Most of the time I think of these things while I'm at my work...my job isn't very mentally challengint enough for me to actually concentrate on what I'm doing *grin* - I work for a Bank by the way) Anyways, whatever happened to the BSD project at Berkley? Did it just die with BSD 4.4 Lite and was later picked up by BSDi and all the "free" *BSD's? If so, why doesn't Berkley support the idea of free software and just give out the source code, or licence it under the GPL? I was considering what would happen if FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD would conjoin to one BSD project. One thing I thought about was that there would be conflict between whose code would be the main choice, and probably other things of that sort. Although, going by the old cliche "two heads are better than one", won't a larger team mean faster development? I wonder. Another plus I was considering, was that whatever BSD that would be produced it would be most likely ported to other architectures which seems like a great idea. I'm sure there are other pros and cons, but it's just an idea. My thoughts are just mere opinions and stuff. Hell, my ideas might even be stupid. I don't know. But, then again lot's of stupid ideas became great ideas. I'm sure Charles Babbage was critized for his calculating machine, and look what we have now - pc's that kick ass. I'd l ike to hear what you guys think. Any opinions, thoughts, or ideas? Cheers, Bear To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 22:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02488 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02457 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:57:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA25640 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:57:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA23547 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:30:55 +1000 (EST) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06171 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:30:50 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA04542; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:30:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980402183032.37825@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:30:32 +0100 To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: login_getclass unknown class References: <199804020125.TAA08568@darkstar.connect.com> <19980402113719.25471@welearn.com.au> <19980402095351.50685@iii.co.uk> <19980403023433.63772@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19980403023433.63772@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 02:34:33AM +1000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 02:34:33AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 11:37:19AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 07:25:46PM -0600, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > You might want to check out the errata for release 2.2.2 > > > > > > That won't necessarily help. > > > > > > Why doesn't somebody just tell this guy where the file he is missing > > > can be found, and leave it at that. > > > > I think this is part of the "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. > > Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." philosophy, although > > (IMHO) Frank could have phrased his answer a little better. > > I wholeheartedly support that philosophy, but when properly applied it is > easily distinguishable from the punitive teasing responses we sometimes see. I'm not sure that Frank's response comes under that heading. He could probably have been a little more lucid, but that's certainly enough for the enterprising reader to go the search engine on the site and type in "errata 2.2.2" and see what comes back. That said, it would help if there was a direct link to the release information on the first page of the site. As I've said in other e-mail, I think the site (certainly the first page) is not aimed sufficiently well at people who want to find information. Of course, I haven't had the time to do anything else about it :-( > If the helpful person has clearly not bothered to do the act that they are > demanding of the other, they do not earn my respect. And if that omission > leads to incorrect advice being given and/or gross and unproductive > inconvenience to the person who is already having a hard time, then I start > to lose my cool. Uh, now I'm confused. As far as I can tell, Frank did check out the errata to see if it solved the problem. His 'mistake' was that he checked the errata file on the web site, which doesn't indicate that which changes have been added since the release went live. I've just had a look at the others on the web site, and they don't either. This probably needs mentioning to Doug, so he can include it for the next release. > > I just went to the search engine, and put "Login_getclass" in the mailing > > list search box. > > OK, so you know what to do and how to squeeeeeeeeeze the best out of the > search. :-) We have different ideas about what constitutes a difficult search, but that's OK. > And you've been considerate enough to show us how you'd go about it, > thanks. It's a lot more than most bother to offer. I think we need to work > through a lot of examples to become good at searching. That's cool. And would probably be (another) good thing for the folks in -newbies to think about. The more examples the better, and someone to take the time to write them up. All it takes is volunteers. > Now I know, if someone wants my advice on "hey, I did everything right but > it's giving this error, how do I fix it" I am to give them no hints but just > a huuuuge list of little tasks that will do them ever so much good, and > teach them some useful skills in the process, like reading the handbook, > faq, searching the mail archives _and_ the web pages, reading all of the > .TXT files on the FTP site, looking for man pages and other documents, > tutorials, books,... Sure, it's a lot of work but by doing it they will > learn what they should have known to stop them making the same mistake > again, right? Wrong. In this case it was nobody's mistake and nobody should > have had to be punished or, ahem, retrained. By that argument there's no point in maintaining the handbook, FAQ or mailing list archives, since no one's going to use them. This is not rocket science, but it's not "Press a, then b, then c" either. > On the other hand, some newbies are the most lazy inconsiderate greedy twits > that you could possibly imagine, and they feel quite happy about asking > numerous simple questions each day to save them the trouble of looking > things up or attempting think for themselves. And some are quite blatant > about it. When these people are pandered to, as I've watched happening in at > least one case recently, I get just as annoyed. I think you might just have hit the nail on the head. As I think I mentioned earlier, if someone's gone to the trouble of looking things up, and either can't find what they're looking for, or don't understand what they've found, and I can help, then I'll try and put together a longish answer. There was one of those recently about permissions for a web server. The chap knew where to look (chmod, chown and so on) and understood how they worked, but didn't have the experience to put it all together. If, on the other hand, he'd just posted "How do I set up my webserver properly?" I'd probably have ignored it. I'll just quote the original message that sparked all this off: > What and why am I getting > Login_getclass unknown class "root" > > I have cvsup-ed the latest stable and have done make world. > I though 2.2.5 would correct this problem. I have been running > 2.2.2 . I havn't rebuilt my kernel yet. Straight off, this tells me that this person hasn't properly remade the world or read the documentation on how to do it in the Handbook. Because if they had, they would have merged in the changes to /etc (including login.conf) as a part of the process, and they wouldn't be seeing this problem anyway. > > For jollies, I did the same search on the web pages. > > You did a search on the web pages?? Whatever would possess you to search web > pages for a thing like this? Just on the off chance. It takes about 30 seconds, and it's the least I can do before bothering the 1,000 or so people on -questions. I could've skipped this step. But I'd feel pretty stupid if I've bothered lots of people with a question that I could have solved if I'd taken just 30 more seconds of my time. > How would you have tackled searching for an answer to the problem of cron > saying "Cannot fork"? I found nothing but my searching skills are clearly > not up to the task yet. (Note: I found the answer by accident but still > wonder how I should have found it) Good question. I saw your original question, and didn't reply to it because I couldn't answer it in anything more than general terms. My train of thought goes thus: 'Cannot fork:'. Ok. fork() is a system call (this is something that _I just know_, but I could have typed 'man -k fork'). A system call is failing for some reason. That's probably bad. Why can this system call fail? 'man fork'. Ah, the errors section: Fork() will fail and no child process will be created if: [EAGAIN] The system-imposed limit on the total number of processes under execution would be exceeded. The limit is given by the sysctl(3) MIB variable KERN_MAXPROC. (The limit is actually one less than this except for the super user). [EAGAIN] The user is not the super user, and the system-imposed limit on the total number of processes under execution by a single user would be exceeded. The limit is given by the sysctl(3) MIB variable KERN_MAXPROCPERUID. [EAGAIN] The user is not the super user, and the soft resource limit corresponding to the resource parameter RLIMIT_NPROC would be exceeded (see getrlimit(2)). [ENOMEM] There is insufficient swap space for the new process. OK. That tells me why it might fail, but it doesn't tell me the specific reason for failure. Do any of those look like they apply to me? How many processes have I got running at the time? Does my machine have enough memory? Am I running out of swap space? Can I try tuning one of the sysctl(3) ('man 3 sysctl', then 'man 8 sysctl') parameters and see if the problem goes away. Hmm, try searching the web site for "cannot fork". . . no, that turns up nothing. What about the mailing list? Nope, not a thing. OK, a post to -questions is probably in order. Include the name of the program that's failing, what time it's failing ("Ah ha, there's a thought, am I running anything else that's load intensive at that time, maybe out of the /etc/daily, weekly or monthly?"), how much memory of got (since that seems to be a factor), the swap space and the version of FreeBSD I'm running. Also include the user that's running the program ('root' I think in this case) and the resource limits for that user (the output of the 'limit' command). That just about covers it, in a stream-of-conscious kind of way. > Yeah, well that's just my opinion of the moment after a disk crash, an > inadequate backup, and a long frustrating day. Try me again tomorrow :-) Ah, one of those. May I recommend an alcoholic drink? I'm quite partial to a Long Island Iced Tea myself, 3 or 4 of those and I stop caring. Right, I'm off to tackle some more of the handbook conversion project. Have a good one. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 23:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04375 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04360 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:09:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (pdx58-i48-21.teleport.com [204.202.167.163]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00865; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:19:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:11:25 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Joey Garcia cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But > anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other > *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just > think it's better than the others? I was just curious. > produced it would be most likely ported to other architectures which seems > like a great idea. I'm sure there are other pros and cons, but it's just > an idea. > > My thoughts are just mere opinions and stuff. Hell, my ideas might even be > stupid. I don't know. But, then again lot's of stupid ideas became great > ideas. I'm sure Charles Babbage was critized for his calculating machine, > and look what we have now - pc's that kick ass. > > I'd l ike to hear what you guys think. Any opinions, thoughts, or ideas? > > Cheers, > > Bear > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 23:11:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04833 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:11:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04818 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (pdx58-i48-21.teleport.com [204.202.167.163]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00880; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:20:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:13:06 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Joey Garcia cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But > anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other > *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just > think it's better than the others? I was just curious. Simple... I work for the guy who is the reason FreeBSD even exists. So... *grin* Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 23:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12368 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12337 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3h-26.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.123]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00112; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:38:06 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980402234048.0069d294@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:40:48 -0800 To: Rick Hamell From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:13 PM 4/2/98 -0800, Rick Hamell wrote: > >> Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But >> anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other >> *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just >> think it's better than the others? I was just curious. > > Simple... I work for the guy who is the reason FreeBSD even >exists. So... *grin* > > > Rick > Heh, sort of like why I have a Bank of America checking account....because I work there. :) Good answer. :o) Bear > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 2 23:56:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14684 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14671 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id RAA07625; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:56:27 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma007619; Fri, 3 Apr 98 17:56:14 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA27799 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:56:13 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA104580172; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:56:12 +1000 Message-Id: <3524961B.736AE04E@scitec.com.au> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:56:11 +1000 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? References: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > > Hey all! > > Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But > anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other > *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just > think it's better than the others? I was just curious. Personally I use it because I find it supports more PC peripherals than the others, and has nifty things like the packages and ports. I used to use NetBSD because I started out with an Amiga. I still have NetBSD 1.2 running on the Amiga and a PC news server. It's a very stable system that uses minimal disk space. It seems to me that FreeBSD is like NetBSD + extra good stuff. For example to get the bash shell going took 30 seconds in FreeBSD, but 15 minutes for NetBSD because I had to configure and compile it manually. I've never played with OpenBSD but I know it started with some NetBSD people not happy with the time taken to fix simple security holes. It's probably grown to be a lot more than NetBSD+fixes by now. > Anyways, I was wondering why there is such a choice in *BSD's. I was > wondering what would happen of all the BSD project would unify in order to > create one Free/Open BSD. I know it would be a utipian idea, but I guess > that I just have alot of time on my hands to think about these things. > (Most of the time I think of these things while I'm at my work...my job > isn't very mentally challengint enough for me to actually concentrate on > what I'm doing *grin* - I work for a Bank by the way) Anyways, whatever > happened to the BSD project at Berkley? Did it just die with BSD 4.4 Lite > and was later picked up by BSDi and all the "free" *BSD's? If so, why > doesn't Berkley support the idea of free software and just give out the > source code, or licence it under the GPL? Berkley released 4.4 Lite which is basically their latest when they stopped working on BSD, less the encumbered code. All the free BSDs took that and added the missing bits to create a workable system. I don't know if they were forced to stop working on it, or if they decided that it was time to pass the baton on and do something else. Anybody can get hold of the 4.4 Lite tapes if they want, it's under the Berkley copyright which is _less_ restrictive than GPL. However by itself it's not a working system due to the stuff that the SysV people made them remove because it was encumbered. > I was considering what would happen if FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD would > conjoin to one BSD project. One thing I thought about was that there would > be conflict between whose code would be the main choice, and probably other > things of that sort. Although, going by the old cliche "two heads are > better than one", won't a larger team mean faster development? I wonder. > Another plus I was considering, was that whatever BSD that would be > produced it would be most likely ported to other architectures which seems > like a great idea. I'm sure there are other pros and cons, but it's just > an idea. Actually having some competing teams isn't as bad as it seems. It creates an environment of friendly rivalry to push people just that little bit extra to be able to say "our feature X is better that yours". And then they all grab the best version and try and make it better. However some features like SMP would benefit from a larger team working on it for some solid time. I've found a lot of stuff gets cross ported between the camps so it's not as if everything is developed many times over from scratch. And lastly there is choice. Why does anyone pick a Ford over General Motors? Personal choice. Cheers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 04:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29208 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 04:59:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.hol.fr (root@mail3.hol.fr [194.149.160.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29190 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 04:59:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cbusquet@pop.hol.fr) Received: from penelope (marseille1-31.hol.fr [195.154.38.159]) by mail3.hol.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12949 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:59:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199804031259.OAA12949@mail3.hol.fr> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Christian Busquet" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:58:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Hardware Reply-to: cbusquet@hol.fr In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19980327233011.006fbd5c@mail.plstn1.sfba.home.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54FR) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Personally i ran 4 machines the biggest one : Belzebuth Linux 486DX33 20 Mo RAM 2X420 Mo HD 1 fd 1,44 1 fd 1M2 (5 1/4) OAK VGA OTI087 2Mo 14'' inches Monitor Running perfectly X Artisoft NE2000 Clone The second one : Lucifer FreeBsd 2.2.5 386SX33 16Mo RAM 200 Mo HD 1 fd 1M44 1 QIC02 TAPE (60Mo)(Run very well with FreeBsd suck with linux) OAK VGA OTI067 1Mo 14''Inches Monitro Running perfectly X (but sucks when going back to Text Mode losing it's synchronization) Don't Know NE2000 Clone and the Third : Belphegor Minix 2.0.0 286 12Mhz 3Mo RAM 100Mo + 80Mo HD 1 fd 1M44 1 fd 1M2 CIRRUs VGA CARD Green Monochrome Monitor Artisoft NE2000 Clone and i have a notebook 386 10Mo RAM 80Mo HD named lilith ! (i network it with PLIP) -- cbusquet@hol.fr cbus@belzebuth.gyptis.frmug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 05:30:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03475 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA03460 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from skygge.myst.no (pc48.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.55]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id PAA14356; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:29:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by skygge.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02140; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:25:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: skygge.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:25:18 +0200 (CEST) From: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" X-Sender: hjv@skygge.myst.no To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-Server Access In-Reply-To: <199804022122.NAA09341@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, David Wolfskill wrote: >>Oh, well. Perhaps xauth can be a solution. > >My recollection is that xauth (and the associated X-Magic-Cookie >authorization) was intended for precisely this situation. So, this would allow me to choose which users on my host that can access the X server? How would I go about doing this (just give me a push in the right direction, please :-))? -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 08:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23291 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:18:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23284 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA02963 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002959; Fri Apr 3 08:17:16 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12115 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:17:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:17:16 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804031617.IAA12115@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please note that altough I'm still a "newbie" to FreeBSD, I've been in the UNIX community for a while.... >Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:54:00 -0800 >From: Joey Garcia >Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But >anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other >*BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just >think it's better than the others? I was just curious. 'cause that's what they run here at work. :-) (At home, I use Suns.) >Anyways, I was wondering why there is such a choice in *BSD's.... Well, a lot of this is historical. From my recollection.... CSRG ("Computer Science Research Group") at Berkeley is the group that coordinated the BSD releases up to 4.4BSD. (How UC Berkeley got involved in the first place is another story, and has to do with Ken Thompson taking a sabbatical year from AT&T Bell Labs & teaching an Operating Systems course at his alma mater -- UC Berkeley....) Reason it stopped at that point is basically lack of funding: by the time 4.4BSD was released, CSRG had dropped down to 5 folks, then (I think) down to 2.5 or so -- Mike Karels joined Rob Kolstad & Co. at BSDI (though I believe this was done in a way that allowed/encouraged his continued contribution to CSRG, as long as it lasted). This was all rather complicated by the AT&T lawsuit filed against UC Berkeley, the UC Regents, & BSDI -- and followed by UC counter-suing, and AT&T selling UNIX to (..Novell? I fail to recall). Adding to all this was Bill & Lynne(sp?) Jolitz' publishing of the bulk of the work necessary to get (most of?) BSD to run on a 386 (I think that was in Dr. Dobbs' Journal -- but I had dropped my subscription by then, since I perceived it as much too PC-oriented, and thus irrelevant to me). There was a great deal more going on, but my memory isn't sufficient to do it justice. I expect there are write-ups from various perspectives on the Web -- and I do recall that there was much passionate disagreement. As for GPL: my perspective is that the Berkeley license is far less restrictive than the the GPL. With the Berkeley license, folks are free to take the code & incorporate it into a commercial product, as long as there's a "boilerplate" copyright notice that gives credit to the UC Regents. With the GPL, the company would also need to make provision for supplying the source. This tends to give the lawyers at companies like IBM indigestion: what happens if someone uses the source to compile a new version of something that the company has supplied, and there's a malfunction of some sort? The legal costs of defending against such a thing could be mind-boggling.... Note that with the Berkeley copyright, it's possible to start with BSD sources, customize them with various proprietary bits & pieces (that you might want to keep as a trade secret, for example, if this is part of a product), and there's no problem at all. This is much more difficult with GPL. >I was considering what would happen if FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD would >conjoin to one BSD project.... Indeed. However, the different projects have different perspectives & different goals. For example, one group is focusing more on portability (so you can have your favorite BSD environment no matter how weird the hardware is); another focuses on IBM-compatible PCs.... And I expect that there's some interplay with different personalities in there.... david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 16:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00546 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:01:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00474 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-06.aei.ca [206.186.204.156]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28136 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:00:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35257736.5EBE7AC0@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:56:38 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: QDOS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, dont know if all people know what I have readed one hour ago, but I will say to you what I have discovered hihihi :-) I have readed at the bookstore in the Complete FreeBSD from Greg Lehey than DOS was derivated from QDOS All that was boring, but after some line, I have readed "Quick and Dirty Operating System" does its true??? So Microsoft DOS really mean Dirty Operating System? or its a joke :-) Someone know? cya KapuT also see my last work on FreeBSD for Newbies www.aei.ca/~malartre/ -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project ICQ #4224434 Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 16:09:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02403 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:09:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spot.zyx.net (brian@spot.zyx.net [204.250.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02345 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@spot.zyx.net) Received: (from brian@localhost) by spot.zyx.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA15526; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:11:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:11:48 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Shellabarger X-Sender: brian@spot.zyx.net To: KapuT cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: QDOS In-Reply-To: <35257736.5EBE7AC0@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, KapuT wrote: > So Microsoft DOS really mean Dirty Operating System? > or its a joke :-) MS-DOS stands for "Microsoft Disk Operating System" Brian -- Brian Shellabarger * brian@zyx.net * ZyXNet SysAdmin * KB7OHI -- http://www.glug.com * PGP Key Available via Finger * -O To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 16:56:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08416 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:56:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08405 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:56:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-35.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.84]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05585; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:53:34 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980403165608.00699928@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:56:08 -0800 To: John Saunders , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? In-Reply-To: <3524961B.736AE04E@scitec.com.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:56 PM 4/3/98 +1000, John Saunders wrote: >Actually having some competing teams isn't as bad as it seems. It >creates an environment of friendly rivalry to push people just >that little bit extra to be able to say "our feature X is better >that yours". And then they all grab the best version and try and >make it better. However some features like SMP would benefit from >a larger team working on it for some solid time. Well, if they want to compete...let them compete against Linux and other free unix's. I agree that with more heads working together..things like SMP would probably be developed quicker. I have a friend that uses NetBSD on Amiga as well. I would assume that a larger team working on one product, such as FreeBSD, ports for other systems would be developed quicker as well. But, all this is just my ideas and stuff. :) > >I've found a lot of stuff gets cross ported between the camps so >it's not as if everything is developed many times over from scratch. That seems pretty cool. I would assume that with people working together and software that is released under GPL...thing would be easier to port to other systems and ideas can be borrowed as well. > >And lastly there is choice. Why does anyone pick a Ford over General >Motors? Personal choice. Well, but that's because Ford rules. :) I'm an owner of two Fords that have never had any problems. Bear > >Cheers. >-- +------------------------------------------------------------+ > . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | > ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | > / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | > \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | > v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | > +------------------------------------------------------------+ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 17:07:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09190 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:07:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09169 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-35.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.84]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08334; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:05:29 -0800 (PST) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980403170804.0069b7b0@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:08:04 -0800 To: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? (Cool BSD history lesson in a nutshell) In-Reply-To: <199804031617.IAA12115@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks David....I really didn't know much about the BSD history and I appreciate the bit of history lesson. I didn't know that Berkeley had a less-restrictive licencse. I have come to the conclusion that because of that the BSD projects that we have today...is really a reincarnation of BSD 4.4 Lite. (that's my interpretation of it - these guys took the code, added what was missing in order to run, enhanced it to run on certain architectures, and then arrived at a working stable OS) Am I on the right track? I agree with you on the different view point that the BSD projects have. I had already come to the conclusion that was most of the reasons why they didn't come together and form one project. I can respect that. It does offer choice, but some confusion as well (at least I had to break down all the pros and cons from each to decide which was the one for me). I guess I'd rather choose if I want FreeBSD over Linux rather than FreeBSD, over OpenBSD, over NetBSD, over Linux. Know what I mean. But I respect what all the projects are doing. Cheers, Bear At 08:17 AM 4/3/98 -0800, David Wolfskill wrote: >Please note that altough I'm still a "newbie" to FreeBSD, I've been in >the UNIX community for a while.... > >>Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:54:00 -0800 >>From: Joey Garcia > >>Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But >>anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other >>*BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Is it because of the support? Or do you just >>think it's better than the others? I was just curious. > >'cause that's what they run here at work. :-) (At home, I use Suns.) > >>Anyways, I was wondering why there is such a choice in *BSD's.... > >Well, a lot of this is historical. From my recollection.... CSRG >("Computer Science Research Group") at Berkeley is the group that >coordinated the BSD releases up to 4.4BSD. (How UC Berkeley got >involved in the first place is another story, and has to do with Ken >Thompson taking a sabbatical year from AT&T Bell Labs & teaching an >Operating Systems course at his alma mater -- UC Berkeley....) > >Reason it stopped at that point is basically lack of funding: by the >time 4.4BSD was released, CSRG had dropped down to 5 folks, then (I >think) down to 2.5 or so -- Mike Karels joined Rob Kolstad & Co. at BSDI >(though I believe this was done in a way that allowed/encouraged his >continued contribution to CSRG, as long as it lasted). > >This was all rather complicated by the AT&T lawsuit filed against UC >Berkeley, the UC Regents, & BSDI -- and followed by UC counter-suing, >and AT&T selling UNIX to (..Novell? I fail to recall). > >Adding to all this was Bill & Lynne(sp?) Jolitz' publishing of the bulk >of the work necessary to get (most of?) BSD to run on a 386 (I think >that was in Dr. Dobbs' Journal -- but I had dropped my subscription by >then, since I perceived it as much too PC-oriented, and thus irrelevant >to me). > >There was a great deal more going on, but my memory isn't sufficient to >do it justice. I expect there are write-ups from various perspectives >on the Web -- and I do recall that there was much passionate >disagreement. > >As for GPL: my perspective is that the Berkeley license is far less >restrictive than the the GPL. With the Berkeley license, folks are free >to take the code & incorporate it into a commercial product, as long as >there's a "boilerplate" copyright notice that gives credit to the UC >Regents. > >With the GPL, the company would also need to make provision for >supplying the source. This tends to give the lawyers at companies like >IBM indigestion: what happens if someone uses the source to compile a >new version of something that the company has supplied, and there's a >malfunction of some sort? The legal costs of defending against such a >thing could be mind-boggling.... > >Note that with the Berkeley copyright, it's possible to start with BSD >sources, customize them with various proprietary bits & pieces (that you >might want to keep as a trade secret, for example, if this is part of a >product), and there's no problem at all. This is much more difficult >with GPL. > >>I was considering what would happen if FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD would >>conjoin to one BSD project.... > >Indeed. However, the different projects have different perspectives & >different goals. For example, one group is focusing more on portability >(so you can have your favorite BSD environment no matter how weird the >hardware is); another focuses on IBM-compatible PCs.... And I expect >that there's some interplay with different personalities in there.... > >david >-- >David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 3 18:59:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10060 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:59:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10046 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11340 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:59:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:59:02 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: new motd In-Reply-To: <19980404073107.19308@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello! Please evaluate the following suggestion for a replacement /etc/motd (login message). The current one is completely incorrect and I'd like to save some headaches by directing people to some technical help resources before hitting the lists. Please make sure you cc: me on any replies since I don't have the resources to monitor -newbies in depth. Thanks for any feedback! == /etc/motd begin == FreeBSD 2.2-VERSION (MYKERNEL) .... Welcome to FreeBSD! Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for up-to-the-minute information and important security advisories. If you require technical assistance: 1. See the errata for this release on the Releases page. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html. 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Enter `/stand/sysinstall' to re-enter the installation and configuration utility. Edit /etc/motd to change this login announcement. == /etc/motd end == Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 01:13:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19588 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19583 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03111; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:19:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980404001907.09828@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:19:07 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? References: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980402225400.00698fd4@pacificnet.net>; from Joey Garcia on Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 10:54:00PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 02, 1998 at 10:54:00PM -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Well, I've been thinking....sometimes that can be a bad thing. *grin* But > anyways, I was wondering why you guys have chosen FreeBSD over the other > *BSD's (OpenBSD and NetBSD). Historical reasons (hysterical raisins :-) ) Late 1994, early 1995 I was working on a project at university to broadcast the student radio station around the campus network. Of Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, only FreeBSD supported multicasting in a useful fashion. It also helped that it was pretty close to SunOS 4.1.3. I've used OpenBSD (it runs on one of the Alphas at work, doing nameservice). I chose OpenBSD over NetBSD because (as far as I could tell) the installation process was simpler, and I didn't have the time to get involved in a very complex install. > Anyways, I was wondering why there is such a choice in *BSD's. Look at it as being a little like the Linux distributions. There is one 'Linux', but you have the 'Redhat', 'Debian', 'Slackware', 'Caldera', and other distributions. In the same way, there's one BSD, but it comes in 'FreeBSD', 'NetBSD', 'OpenBSD', and (if you want to pay for it) 'BSDi' distributions. > I was wondering what would happen of all the BSD project would unify > in order to create one Free/Open BSD. Nice idea. The snag is (basically) the personalities involved. Some people don't want to work with other people (and this applies across all three camps). It's (IMHO) a bit of a shame, but it's the way things are. Searching comp.unix.bsd.* at DejaNews will probably turn up a bunch of threads along these lines (along with messages from people who can express the strengths of having three different BSDs better than I can). N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 01:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21577 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21572 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:30:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01448; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:30:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980404192957.22033@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:29:57 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD-Newbies FAK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (4 April 1998) This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, promoting FreeBSD among our friends, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is currently being put together. It will include books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. ___________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. ___________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 01:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24198 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24187 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01484; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:50:48 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980404195045.04695@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:50:45 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Doug White Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new motd References: <19980404073107.19308@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 06:59:02PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 06:59:02PM -0800, Doug White wrote: > Hello! > > Please evaluate the following suggestion for a replacement /etc/motd > (login message). The current one is completely incorrect and I'd like to > save some headaches by directing people to some technical help resources > before hitting the lists. Please make sure you cc: me on any replies > since I don't have the resources to monitor -newbies in depth. > > Thanks for any feedback! OK, here's our chance to have some real input. Do newbies think this will help? I like it enough to want to steal most of it for our weekly posting (http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ if you missed it) but I'm waiting for your feedback (on both documents). Here's Doug White's suggestion again: > == /etc/motd begin == > FreeBSD 2.2-VERSION (MYKERNEL) .... > > Welcome to FreeBSD! > > Please see the Releases page at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for > up-to-the-minute information and important security advisories. > > If you require technical assistance: > 1. See the errata for this release on the Releases page. > 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html. > 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of > `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to > questions@FreeBSD.ORG. > > Enter `/stand/sysinstall' to re-enter the installation and configuration > utility. Edit /etc/motd to change this login announcement. > > == /etc/motd end == -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 05:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13164 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 05:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13156 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 05:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from skygge.myst.no (pc45.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.52]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id PAA10991; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:00:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by skygge.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00372; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:35:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: skygge.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:35:07 +0200 (CEST) From: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" X-Sender: hjv@skygge.myst.no Reply-To: "Haavard J. Vaagstoel" To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-Server Access In-Reply-To: <199804031547.HAA12032@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, David Wolfskill wrote: >I suggest the man pages for xauth & xdm; also, if they are available, >the relevant O'Reilly X Window System books (volumes 3 & 8 -- Users's >Guide & Administrator's Guide, respectively). I'm on my way to getting things to work all right now; xauth is working fine. But starting X with the authority stuff enabled is yet very akward; I can't start it with startx... -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 16:52:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02286 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeep.ti.com (gatekeep.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02239 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vagner@spdc.ti.com) Received: from tilde.csc.ti.com ([157.170.1.149]) by gatekeep.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26504 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from spdc.ti.com (ox.spdc.ti.com [192.226.26.51]) by tilde.csc.ti.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25958 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from epcot.spdc.ti.com (epcot [192.226.26.53]) by spdc.ti.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00555 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from vagnernt (dhcp22-158.spdc.ti.com [192.226.22.158]) by epcot.spdc.ti.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA24211 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199804050051.SAA24211@epcot.spdc.ti.com> X-Sender: vagner@epcot.spdc.ti.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: George Vagner Subject: Dallas Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there anyone on this list that is in the Dallas area that runs Freebsd? I would like to get in touch with you maybe for some idea sharing... Thanks Laszlo Vagner Texas Instruments Email:kf7nn@ti.com FreeBSD The OS of choice. http://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org telnet://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org Pg. 598-5217 Wk. 995-4297 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 17:07:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03435 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03425 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@pm01-06.aei.ca [206.123.6.106]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13393; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:07:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3526D862.CAACA1EF@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:03:30 -0500 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George Vagner CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dallas References: <199804050051.SAA24211@epcot.spdc.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org George Vagner wrote: > Is there anyone on this list that is in the Dallas area that runs > Freebsd? I would like to get in touch with you maybe for some > idea sharing... > Hehehe, FreeBSD.ORG should create FUG (FreeBSD User Group) like I have explained in precedent msg... ;-) > Thanks > Laszlo Vagner > Texas Instruments > Email:kf7nn@ti.com > FreeBSD The OS of choice. > http://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org > telnet://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org > Pg. 598-5217 > Wk. 995-4297 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Cya KapuT -- *************************** malartre@aei.ca www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project ICQ #4224434 Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE *************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 4 20:44:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20219 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:44:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20187 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:44:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) From: anthony@sohopros.com Received: from anthony.flashnet (fwasc15-252.flash.net [209.30.26.252]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17022; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:44:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980404224333.008e9d90@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: anthony@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:43:35 -0600 To: George Vagner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dallas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I live in Fort Worth. Anthony .... At 06:51 PM 4/4/98 -0600, George Vagner wrote: >Is there anyone on this list that is in the Dallas area that runs >Freebsd? I would like to get in touch with you maybe for some >idea sharing... > >Thanks >Laszlo Vagner >Texas Instruments >Email:kf7nn@ti.com >FreeBSD The OS of choice. >http://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org >telnet://mutsgo.dyn.ml.org >Pg. 598-5217 >Wk. 995-4297 > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- Anthony E. Coley Consultant, SohoPros anthony@sohopros.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message