From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 01:52:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20793 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bubble.didi.com (sjx-ca126-20.ix.netcom.com [207.92.177.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20787 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by bubble.didi.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) id BAA02416; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:45:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803010945.BAA02416@bubble.didi.com> To: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt CC: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt) Subject: Re: SCSI host adapter... From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Hi. Hi. Please don't post your mail to two lists (and don't send it twice next time :). * Which SCSI host adapter should I buy? I was thinking about * the Adaptec 2940UW but it is soooo expensive here (aprox. * $330) that I thought about the ASUS PCI-SC875 (Symbios * Logic 53C875) which is much cheaper. Which one performs * better? About the same if you have one or two drives. If you have a lot of drives, the 2940UW will probably perform better. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 04:30:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08287 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08280 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id NAA21340 for scsi@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:15:11 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA11033; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:59:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980301125933.11291@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:59:33 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi ! Encountered two problems with -current, which might be in -STABLE as well: a) scsiformat returned an timeout, when I formatted a Seagate Barracuda. I don't know exactly, but it lasts a very long time to preformat this beast. Using scsiformat I wasn't able to preformat it. I had to use Adaptecs scsiformat tool from DOS. b) Tonight the Barracuda got some things to do, a make release ... sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c , retries:4 sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c , retries:3 sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c , retries:2 sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:18,1 sd3: Recovered data with error correction & retries applied field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,4 , retries:1 sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c , FAILURE sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c What's the exact meaning of these messages ? I think the harddisk has discovered a bad sector or such and repaired it ... Or what do you think ? What is asc: 17,2 ??? And here a suggestion from me ... would it be possible, that such SCSI messages get a "date stamp" ?! If there are fixes possible, might they go into -STABLE as well before we release it ? Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 07:54:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27623 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27600 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:54:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA02371; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:54:31 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA07418; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:54:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301095430.47796@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:54:30 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Andreas Klemm Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time References: <19980301125933.11291@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19980301125933.11291@klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 12:59:33PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eeeeeeeeaaaiiii!!!! Go into the Adaptec utilities (from the disk adapter) and run the verify utility. It should reassign (transparently) this, and copy the data at the same time. DO NOT let this go. If you do, that soft (ECC recoverable) error will likely turn into a hard error and you will lose the data. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 12:59:33PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hi ! > > Encountered two problems with -current, which might be in -STABLE > as well: > > a) scsiformat returned an timeout, when I formatted a Seagate > Barracuda. I don't know exactly, but it lasts a very long > time to preformat this beast. > Using scsiformat I wasn't able to preformat it. > I had to use Adaptecs scsiformat tool from DOS. > > b) Tonight the Barracuda got some things to do, a make release ... > > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:4 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:3 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:2 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:18,1 > sd3: Recovered data with error correction & retries applied field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,4 > , retries:1 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , FAILURE > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > > What's the exact meaning of these messages ? I think the harddisk > has discovered a bad sector or such and repaired it ... Or what > do you think ? What is asc: 17,2 ??? > > And here a suggestion from me ... would it be possible, that such > SCSI messages get a "date stamp" ?! > > If there are fixes possible, might they go into -STABLE as well > before we release it ? > > Andreas /// > > -- > Andreas Klemm > powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 07:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28207 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA28182 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:56:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10536 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for scsi@FreeBSD.ORG); Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:56:38 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA04743; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:15:28 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803011315.OAA04743@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-Reply-To: <19980301125933.11291@klemm.gtn.com> from Andreas Klemm at "Mar 1, 98 12:59:33 pm" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:15:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Andreas Klemm wrote... > Hi ! > > Encountered two problems with -current, which might be in -STABLE > as well: > > a) scsiformat returned an timeout, when I formatted a Seagate > Barracuda. I don't know exactly, but it lasts a very long > time to preformat this beast. > Using scsiformat I wasn't able to preformat it. > I had to use Adaptecs scsiformat tool from DOS. It think you need to change: # formatting may take a huge amount of time, set timeout to 2 hours echo "Formatting... this may take a while." scsi -s 7200 -f $RAW -c "4 0 0 0 0 0" in the scsiformat script. 7200 is too low for big disks. > b) Tonight the Barracuda got some things to do, a make release ... > > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:4 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:3 > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > , retries:2 > What's the exact meaning of these messages ? I think the harddisk > has discovered a bad sector or such and repaired it ... Or what > do you think ? What is asc: 17,2 ??? Guessing mode: maybe the drive has trackfollowing errors and is trying to go slightly off-track to get better signals on it's heads. ASC: additional sense code The 17,2 reads in the scsi spec as: Recovered data with positive head offset Great huh? ;-) > And here a suggestion from me ... would it be possible, that such > SCSI messages get a "date stamp" ?! Might be very useful, but not only for SCSI messages I suppose. W/ _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 13:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03563 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03545; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:15:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id WAA22638; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:00:10 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA14561; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980301214334.35736@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:43:34 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Wilko Bulte , Karl Denninger Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time References: <19980301125933.11291@klemm.gtn.com> <199803011315.OAA04743@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803011315.OAA04743@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:15:28PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:15:28PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > It think you need to change: > > # formatting may take a huge amount of time, set timeout to 2 hours > echo "Formatting... this may take a while." > scsi -s 7200 -f $RAW -c "4 0 0 0 0 0" > > in the scsiformat script. 7200 is too low for big disks. I think this should be raised to a higher value in -current and -stable. Is it ok, if I double the value in the scsiformat script ? Therefore Cc'd to the committers list, so that it might go into 2.2.6. > > sd3: RECOVERED ERROR info:0x3900a7 asc:17,2 Recovered data with positive head offset field replaceable unit: ea sks:80,c > > , retries:4 > > Guessing mode: maybe the drive has trackfollowing errors and is trying > to go slightly off-track to get better signals on it's heads. Ah ;-) On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 09:54:30AM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > Eeeeeeeeaaaiiii!!!! > > Go into the Adaptec utilities (from the disk adapter) and run the verify > utility. It should reassign (transparently) this, and copy the data at the > same time. > > DO NOT let this go. If you do, that soft (ECC recoverable) error will > likely turn into a hard error and you will lose the data. Ok, thanks ! But what's strange for me is, that I preformatted the disk 12 hours ago ... And then this, hmmm ... -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 13:24:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05144 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05089; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:24:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09745; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:21:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andreas Klemm cc: Wilko Bulte , Karl Denninger , scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:43:34 +0100." <19980301214334.35736@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:21:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > DO NOT let this go. If you do, that soft (ECC recoverable) error will > > likely turn into a hard error and you will lose the data. > > Ok, thanks ! But what's strange for me is, that I preformatted the > disk 12 hours ago ... And then this, hmmm ... Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. rule 2: If you have to perform a format, run the disk (properly cooled and mounted) for at least an hour before starting the format. Failure to do this will almost certainly result in a poor format. Also, your error is not uncommon; if the media has lost some retention it will be OK during the format, but hours later the data will be gone. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 15:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23604 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:32:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23593 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id AAA28060 for freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:29:39 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA03849; 02 Mar 98 00:31:17 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 02 Mar 98 00:05:54 +0100 Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing ti Message-ID: Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01 Mar 98 14:15:28 Wilko Bulte wrote regarding Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing ti WB>> a) scsiformat returned an timeout, when I formatted a Seagate WB>> Barracuda. I don't know exactly, but it lasts a very long WB>> time to preformat this beast. WB>> Using scsiformat I wasn't able to preformat it. WB>> I had to use Adaptecs scsiformat tool from DOS. Which has the advantage of showing a progress-bar. Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 16:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29746 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:04:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29732 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id AAA11586; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:15:11 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA27014; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:06:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980301230652.39518@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:06:52 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Mike Smith Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time References: <19980301214334.35736@klemm.gtn.com> <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:21:48PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:21:48PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > DO NOT let this go. If you do, that soft (ECC recoverable) error will > > > likely turn into a hard error and you will lose the data. > > > > Ok, thanks ! But what's strange for me is, that I preformatted the > > disk 12 hours ago ... And then this, hmmm ... > > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. This rule says a) You don't have optimal conditions like those in the factory b) the factory doesn't have the conditions that you have ... So ... perhaps immediately jump to rule 2 ?! > rule 2: If you have to perform a format, run the disk (properly cooled > and mounted) for at least an hour before starting the format. Failure > to do this will almost certainly result in a poor format. Ok, agreed, thanks for this tip. > Also, your error is not uncommon; if the media has lost some retention > it will be OK during the format, but hours later the data will be gone. Ok, but who has optimal conditions, so I'd vote for doing a preformat locally and because of things like transport and such. Or ? -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 18:26:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19759 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:26:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19752 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:26:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.1]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA20065; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Mike Smith Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:28:39 GMT Message-ID: <34fd0d61.25989081@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id SAA19753 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:21:48 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you >absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal >conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. The last 16 SCSI drives I've bought are all hard sectored. You can't reformat them to a different sector size, even by using the SCSI utility to change the mode page entry for sector size and low-level formatting. It will just ignore your saved value and use the default. And the drive's firmware will *not* let you flag the mode page for soft sectoring. I know, I've tried. I did this with one Micropolis 8.7GB drive, trying to change the sector size to 2048 bytes. After reformatting, FreeBSD reported that it was a 33GB drive! Wow! Too bad the sectors were still really only 512 bytes. :-( I expect most drives sold in the PC marketplace nowadays are probably all hard sectored. The worst you can do by reformatting them is perhaps reallocate some bad sectors and/or tracks, which is a good thing. -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 18:48:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21851 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:48:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21846 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10350; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:59:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andreas Klemm cc: Mike Smith , scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:06:52 +0100." <19980301230652.39518@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:59:14 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:21:48PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > DO NOT let this go. If you do, that soft (ECC recoverable) error will > > > > likely turn into a hard error and you will lose the data. > > > > > > Ok, thanks ! But what's strange for me is, that I preformatted the > > > disk 12 hours ago ... And then this, hmmm ... > > > > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. > > This rule says > a) You don't have optimal conditions like those in the factory > b) the factory doesn't have the conditions that you have ... > > So ... perhaps immediately jump to rule 2 ?! No. Conditions at the factory include an extremely stable physical platform, minimal EMI, clean power, long-term thermal stability. These result in a "quality of format" which cannot be achieved under other conditions. In addition, the format conditions at the factory result in a format which is suited to the widest range of operating conditions. > > Also, your error is not uncommon; if the media has lost some retention > > it will be OK during the format, but hours later the data will be gone. > > Ok, but who has optimal conditions, so I'd vote for doing a > preformat locally and because of things like transport and such. > Or ? No. I'll say it again; unless you *must* reformat, don't. Reformatting will degrade the quality of the entire disk. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 19:05:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23861 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:05:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23855 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:05:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.1]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA23536; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Mike Smith Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI low level format, good or bad Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 03:07:28 GMT Message-ID: <35021f91.30584272@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA23857 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:59:14 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >No. Conditions at the factory include >an extremely stable physical platform, Don't format your drive while jumping up and down on your desk. >minimal EMI, Don't format your drive while climbing a high-voltage wire tower. >clean power Buy a cheap UPS from the local office supply. >long-term thermal stability. Warm up your drive for a while. >No. I'll say it again; unless you *must* reformat, don't. >Reformatting will degrade the quality of the entire disk. I'm not convinced. -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 20:35:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07575 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07570 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id EAA13094; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:35:01 GMT Message-ID: <19980301203501.09596@nuxi.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:01 -0800 From: "David E. O'Brien" To: Mike Smith Cc: Karl Denninger , scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19980301214334.35736@klemm.gtn.com> <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199803012121.NAA09745@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:21:48PM -0800 X-Warning: Mutt Bites! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. What about for ancient (4 years+) you inherit? Is a good idea to low level format them then? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Mar 1 21:17:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10879 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10874 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11201; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:14:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803020514.VAA11201@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: obrien@NUXI.com cc: Mike Smith , Karl Denninger , scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:35:01 PST." <19980301203501.09596@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:14:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. > > What about for ancient (4 years+) you inherit? > Is a good idea to low level format them then? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 02:28:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19017 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:28:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA19012 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id EAA01617; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:27:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id EAA00561; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:27:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980302042753.31713@mcs.net> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:27:53 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: John Kelly Cc: Mike Smith , scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad References: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> <35021f91.30584272@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <35021f91.30584272@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 03:07:28AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 03:07:28AM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:59:14 -0800, Mike Smith > wrote: > > >No. Conditions at the factory include > > >an extremely stable physical platform, > > Don't format your drive while jumping up and down on your desk. > > >minimal EMI, > > Don't format your drive while climbing a high-voltage wire tower. > > >clean power > > Buy a cheap UPS from the local office supply. > > >long-term thermal stability. > > Warm up your drive for a while. > > >No. I'll say it again; unless you *must* reformat, don't. > >Reformatting will degrade the quality of the entire disk. > > I'm not convinced. Neither am I, and I've been at this for more than 10 years now. I get the best results when I: 1) Take all new drives, and warm them to operating temperature in their operating configuration. This is going to NOT be the same as it was at the factory, as the enclosure I'm using is not the same as theirs! This means leaving them powered on for a couple of hours at least. Note that some drives have a problem with certain orientations (pay attention to the user's guides!) Circuit board down is basically always safe, but other than that you do need to look. 2) Low-level format the disk. 3) Run a surface media verify (the Adaptec controllers will automatically spare any recoverable defects that this finds. If you have UNrecoverable defects at this point, the drive should not be placed in service but rather RMAd and replaced). That's it. You'll still get burned by infant mortality once in a while, but other than that, you should get full service life this way. I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with non-optimal formats. I don't know if its a temperature tolerance thing or what, but this has been my experience. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 03:36:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25537 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25531 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:36:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.1]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA20724; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:36:14 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Karl Denninger Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:38:13 GMT Message-ID: <34fa9859.869792@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> <35021f91.30584272@mail.cetlink.net> <19980302042753.31713@mcs.net> In-Reply-To: <19980302042753.31713@mcs.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id DAA25532 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:27:53 -0600, Karl http://reptile.rug.ac.be/~coder/sniffit/sniffit.html wrote: >I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with >non-optimal formats. I've seen non-optimal mode page values. Auto Write Reallocation and Auto Read Reallocation are often disabled, so I use the scsi utility to enable them. And I like to set Read Retry Count and Write Retry Count to lower values, usually 10 and 7. -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 06:45:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22998 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22982 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:45:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id PAA25085; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:15:06 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA11505; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:14:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980302081450.26758@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:14:50 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Mike Smith Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time References: <19980301230652.39518@klemm.gtn.com> <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803012359.PAA10350@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 03:59:14PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 03:59:14PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > No. I'll say it again; unless you *must* reformat, don't. > Reformatting will degrade the quality of the entire disk. So doing a verify is the only recommended action ... Hmm, ok. Thanks for stating this out. 'til now this was unknown to me and I think to many other people as well. Everybody I know tells you, that preformatting a disk is nearly the first action you should do prior installing an OS ... -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 08:58:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08708 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:58:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.communique.no (www.communique.no [193.212.204.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08686 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from are@communique.no) Received: (qmail 3964 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Mar 1998 17:11:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:11:14 +0100 (CET) From: Are Bryne X-Sender: are@rune.communique.no To: FreeBSD SCSI list cc: are.bryne@communique.no Subject: Booting FreeBSD off SCSI w/o SCSI bios Message-ID: Organization: Communique DA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (please keep me cc'd) Hi, I've been trying to make a Compaq LTE Elite 4/50cx boot FreeBSD directly off a scsi disk. It's got an AIC-6360 in the docking station (SmartStation). There's no bios for the chip. The LTE Elite itself has an internal ata disk. It's not really an option to put the root slice on this. I've looked at several bootloaders: BootEasy, BS-OS, and (a little at) GRUB. It seems they all need a SCSI bios to find the scsi disk. The only viable way to boot it seems, is to use dosboot (fbsdboot.exe) with the -D option (telling it to use a kernel on the dos disk). I also tried making it find the kernel on the scsi disk, having loaded the necessary dos aspi drivers, but to no avail (should this be possible?). The SCSI disk first has a 512 MB primary FAT partition, then a 1536 MB FreeBSD partition and at the end, a 1024 MB extended FAT partition. It also has a BootEasy boot image. Would anyone know of a simpler/better method of booting? Thanks in advance. Are Bryne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 09:43:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14195 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:43:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA14189 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24046 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for scsi@FreeBSD.ORG); Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:42:26 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA01417; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:55:07 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803021555.QAA01417@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-Reply-To: <19980301203501.09596@nuxi.com> from "David E. O'Brien" at "Mar 1, 98 08:35:01 pm" To: obrien@NUXI.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:55:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, karl@mcs.net, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As David E. O'Brien wrote... > > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. > > What about for ancient (4 years+) you inherit? > Is a good idea to low level format them then? No. Unless you have problems with them. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 11:32:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27206 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27200 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:32:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13217; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803021928.LAA13217@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Wilko Bulte cc: obrien@NUXI.com, mike@smith.net.au, karl@mcs.net, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout when formatting 9GB Barracuda, scsi errors is missing time In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:55:07 +0100." <199803021555.QAA01417@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:28:23 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As David E. O'Brien wrote... > > > Er, rule 1: Do not perform a SCSI format on a disk unless you > > > absolutely *MUST*. Disks are formatted at the factory under optimal > > > conditions. You can't reproduce those anywhere else. > > > > What about for ancient (4 years+) you inherit? > > Is a good idea to low level format them then? > > No. Unless you have problems with them. > > Wilko > _ ______________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko > |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' > --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- BTW trust this man; he doesn't mention it, but he works for Digital's storage division. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 13:58:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25699 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.arc.nasa.gov (george.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.194.142]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25602 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:58:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov) Received: (from lamaster@localhost) by george.arc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25535; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Hugh LaMaster Message-Id: <199803022153.NAA25535@george.arc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: SCSI host adapter... To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:53:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov In-Reply-To: from "freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt" at Feb 28, 98 09:47:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Soon I'll upgrade my machine's disk sub-system from IDE to SCSI > but I have some doubts. Vanquish your doubts. You will be happy with SCSI. > Which SCSI host adapter should I buy? I was thinking about > the Adaptec 2940UW but it is soooo expensive here (aprox. > $330) that I thought about the ASUS PCI-SC875 (Symbios > Logic 53C875) which is much cheaper. Which one performs > better? I have not used the ASUS PCI-SC875. But, I have been perfectly happy with my PCI-SC200 fast SCSI II, used with a Quantum fast-narrow SCSI II disk and a Seagate QIC SCSI tape drive. (Yes, "dump" works fine.) Used it under FreeBSD 2.1.?, 2.2.5, and 3.0-current, as well as, ahem, Windows 95. There have been no problems with this controller whatsoever. Performance has been excellent as well. I think I paid $79 U.S. for the SC200, vastly less than the brand-name PCI SCSI controllers were going for at the time. (~Two years ago now.) Diamond also makes two Symbios-based controllers, a single and a dual-bus, based on the Symbios chipsets. > I also know that the ASUS adapter only supports SCSI-2 > so I won't be able to plug a Quantum Atlas II (UW, SCSI-3) > that I am planning to buy. Am I right? The ASUS PCI-SC875 is advertised to be UW. Some companies refer to "Ultra-SCSI" as "SCSI-3", which is misleading, so that is the confusion. > I've heard that from time to time some problems appear > on the Adaptec driver and I've never heard anything similar > about the cards with Symbios chips. But as I know that > wcarchive.cdrom.com is running with 2 Adaptecs 3940 it > shouldn't be a problem, right? Certainly, the code will be exercised thoroughly and the motivation will be there to fix any problems. Perhaps someone should donate some Symbios-based controllers to FreeBSD.org. > I've also heard about the DPT host adapters, which are > very fast trusting the company that produces these cards. > Anyone with experiences on those? I might go with the > inexpensive ASUS card now and buy a DPT latter instead > of the Adaptec... (FYI this is for my home machine and > I can't spend to much money on it) > > Thanks in advance I can't guarantee that it will work, but, from past experience, the ASUS card is a good bet anyway. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 15:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11461 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11445 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-45.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.45]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA29554 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:16:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA26129 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:06:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803021206.GAA26129@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad In-reply-to: Message from Karl Denninger of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:27:53 CST." <19980302042753.31713@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 06:06:27 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Karl Denninger writes: > > I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with > non-optimal formats. I don't know if its a temperature tolerance thing or > what, but this has been my experience. What do you consider a non-optimal format? Does Adaptec's low level format mess with the SCSI mode pages? If so, reformatting might "optimize" the disk. I've observed the default for WCE and other options varies according to where the disk came from, not by manufacturer. I stick by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" reasoning. There is no telling exactly how they format the drive at the factory. No telling what additional hardware monitors are attached to the drive. You'll notice most all drives have additional connectors and test points for *something*. In fact there is no telling exactly what happens when you "low level" format the drive yourself. With any luck it will take the factory defect list (not block list, but lowest level bit error position from index, remember MFM and RLL disks?) as gospel and try to arrange blocks around that. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Mar 2 15:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13734 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13678 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:23:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA12463; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:23:50 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id RAA20620; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:23:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980302172350.11640@mcs.net> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:23:50 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: David Kelly Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad References: <199803021206.GAA26129@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803021206.GAA26129@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 06:06:27AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 06:06:27AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Karl Denninger writes: > > > > I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with > > non-optimal formats. I don't know if its a temperature tolerance thing or > > what, but this has been my experience. > > What do you consider a non-optimal format? One which generates errors after short periods of being online (small numbers of unrecoverable block errors), among other things. Then there is the entire mode page issue. > Does Adaptec's low level format mess with the SCSI mode pages? If so, > reformatting might "optimize" the disk. I've observed the default for > WCE and other options varies according to where the disk came from, not > by manufacturer. Yes. I have a rather old utility which works with Adaptec SCSI host adapters which can change most of the mode pages that are "interesting". Its not perfect, but it works for a lot of stuff that otherwise is "immutable" without a lot of screwing around. > I stick by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" reasoning. There is no > telling exactly how they format the drive at the factory. No telling > what additional hardware monitors are attached to the drive. You'll > notice most all drives have additional connectors and test points for > *something*. > > In fact there is no telling exactly what happens when you "low level" > format the drive yourself. With any luck it will take the factory defect > list (not block list, but lowest level bit error position from index, > remember MFM and RLL disks?) as gospel and try to arrange blocks around > that. The problem appears, in many cases, to be temperature tolerance. This is why its very, very important to run a drive in the final enclosure with all covers, etc in place for a couple of hours before you try to low-level format it. I know that with today's positioners and such this is never supposed to be necessary. Tell that to the disks that I've had to format, but once doing so have run for *years* without a single block error. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Tue Mar 3 02:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20951 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 02:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slug.EUnet.pt (sj2-p2.telepac.pt [194.65.177.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20944 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 02:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) Received: from localhost (jmg@localhost) by slug.EUnet.pt (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA12923 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:50:52 GMT (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) X-Authentication-Warning: slug.EUnet.pt: jmg owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:50:52 +0000 (WET) From: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt X-Sender: jmg@slug.EUnet.pt To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI host adapter (last thoughts) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! After thinking a lot I decided to buy a SYMBIOS 53C875 based board instead of the Adaptec. Before buying it (I am thinking about the ASUS PCI-SC875) I'd like to hear opinions (good and bad) from people that use this card. I am doing this to know what kind of problems do exist before I spend the money. Thanks, Jorge PS: Does the ASUS card come with cables and in a box or it is like an OEM product, i.e., only a card without anything else? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Mar 4 21:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02117 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rome.ntr.net (ha1.ntr.net [206.112.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02083 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:18:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doublem@ntr.net) Received: from mickey (1Cust2.tnt3.huntington-beach.ca.da.uu.net [153.37.172.2]) by rome.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id AAA22844 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:18:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803050518.AAA22844@rome.ntr.net> X-Sender: doublem@ntr.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 21:24:36 -0800 To: freebsd-SCSI@FreeBSD.ORG From: Norman Subject: Installation of FreeBSD on Compaq ProSignia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org List Members: Compaq ProSignia 486 DX/2 66 manufactured in April/1993 with an onboard ncr53c710 SCSI controller card for hard drives only. Populated with a Seagate Barracuda (Narrow) and an HP drive (Barracuda partitioned with DOS (FAT) and majority Windows NT Workstation (NTFS)). An Adaptec AHA-1740 populated with a WangDAT Model 3100 tape drive and a Panasonic (MATSHITA) CD-ROM (CR-508). Has anyone successful installed FreeBSD with this configuration (minus the population specific, but with the two SCSI controller specifics)? Any assistance would be appreciated. I would like to devote drive1 (HP drive) to FreeBSD and still be able to multi-boot to Windows NT, DOS, and FreeBSD. Norman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 5 14:51:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02685 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02670 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:51:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA06932 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for scsi@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:51:12 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA02731; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:38:37 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803051938.UAA02731@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Duncan Barclay at "Mar 5, 98 08:06:50 am" To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk (Duncan Barclay) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:38:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, julian@whistle.com, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Duncan Barclay wrote... > > On 04-Mar-98 Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > On 04-Mar-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > ... > > > >> An extra power supply is money well spent. We ship all our standalone > >> arrays at least with N+1, optional 2N power. 2N gives you 2 seperate > >> power entry points to the power grid. Now we only need to educate people > >> to use two different power branches (phases? what's the right English > >> term?) > > > > The old DPT 9W tower (made by DEC) had an interesting feature, where the > > power INPUT was switchable too. If the AC to one supply went dowm it will > > draw AC from the other. > > > > Yes, 2N P/S is trivial to do (2 diods/circuit if I remember right) and > > cheap. Technically, you want each supply fed from a different phase. In > > the US they are referredto as ``independant circuits''. I have seen people > > paying lots of money to get that, where they have 220V right in the same > > room (220BAC in the US is 2-phases, 180 degrees apart, unlike the European > > 3 phasees 120 degrees apart. Yest, you can get 3phase circuits in the US > > too). The hot wire in a 220VAC, in the us is 117VAC to ground, 220VAC > > hot-hot. > > > > Are you sure you guys want to use different phases of a the same feed? Remember > all two or three phases come into the building from the same sub-station down > the same pice of cable. Most comman fault is a digger cutting this > cable taking out all three phases or temp. shorts in the Yep, we had an example of that at work ;-) > overheads to the sub-station (auto reset ater a couple of minutes; usually > from wind blowing the cables together). We are lucky: our low voltage net (anything <220kV I think) is almost all underground lines. At least no arcing lines. More digger risk of course ;-) > > You need feeds from seperate sub-stations. You are of course right. But in my personal experience asking for what you propose really drives customers up the wall. In most cases people don't even know how their power grid is put together. Having things like this changed proves to be horrendously expensive. But again: if they really care they should shell out the Dfl ($). But in general I think the Dutch power grid is not really comparable to the US: for the best part underground, much shorter distances etc. Interesting side step: the same thing applies to long distance fibres for remote disaster tolerant sites. PTT tends to route these things very nicely through the same trench (but you can at least *see* them do that most of the time, and hopefully correct 'm...) but also thru the same phone/network switch(es). Cute.. Wilko [ moved to -scsi ] _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 5 20:55:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25834 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:55:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luthien.watson.org (LUTHIEN.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25829 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:55:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shafeeq@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from localhost (shafeeq@localhost) by luthien.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA06502 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:55:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from shafeeq@cyrus.watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: luthien.watson.org: shafeeq owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: Shafeeq Sinnamohideen X-Sender: shafeeq@luthien.watson.org To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CAM support for Buslogic ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Are there plans to have a CAM driver for the Buslogic 44x/54x/74x/9xx series of cards anytime soon ? Also, with my 948, the regular bt driver reports that the adapter and all drives are operating in "async only" when they are actually operating in sync or higher. A quick look at the driver suggests that the 948 might use a different encoding for its device info than earlier cards. The linux driver works fine, so would there be any copyright issues with looking at it to determine what the correct format is ? Or does anyone else know more about this ? Thanks, Shafeeq S. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Where are we going ? | Visit the domain of the Electric Monk at : | | Planet 10 ! | | How are we getting there ? | | | Real Fast ! | What happens to falling radioactive cats with | | When are we going ? | buttered toast tied to their backs ? | | Real Soon ! | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 5 21:16:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27592 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27583 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-218.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.218]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA28170; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:16:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA11083; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:27:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803060027.SAA11083@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Karl Denninger cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad In-reply-to: Message from Karl Denninger of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 17:23:50 CST." <19980302172350.11640@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 18:27:00 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Karl Denninger writes: > On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 06:06:27AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > Karl Denninger writes: > > > > > > I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with > > > non-optimal formats. I don't know if its a temperature tolerance thing o > r > > > what, but this has been my experience. > > > > What do you consider a non-optimal format? > > One which generates errors after short periods of being online (small numbers > of unrecoverable block errors), among other things. Then there is the > entire mode page issue. Come to think of it, problems like this could be due to a noisy or poor power supply. Often they get noisier (electrically) when they get hot. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Mar 5 21:17:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27665 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27658 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA12851; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:17:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id XAA04607; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:17:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980305231754.48585@mcs.net> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:17:54 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: David Kelly Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI low level format, good or bad References: <199803060027.SAA11083@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803060027.SAA11083@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Thu, Mar 05, 1998 at 06:27:00PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 05, 1998 at 06:27:00PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Karl Denninger writes: > > On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 06:06:27AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > > Karl Denninger writes: > > > > > > > > I've seen a non-trivial number of disks come off the factory line with > > > > non-optimal formats. I don't know if its a temperature tolerance thing o > > r > > > > what, but this has been my experience. > > > > > > What do you consider a non-optimal format? > > > > One which generates errors after short periods of being online (small numbers > > of unrecoverable block errors), among other things. Then there is the > > entire mode page issue. > > Come to think of it, problems like this could be due to a noisy or poor > power supply. Often they get noisier (electrically) when they get hot. On one disk out of a half-dozen on the same power supply? :-) (PS: Yes, I've checked that, and no, its not the problem) :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Fri Mar 6 13:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26975 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA26969 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16025 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for scsi@freebsd.org); Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:21:58 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA14847; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:44:34 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803062044.VAA14847@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Mar 6, 98 10:02:52 am" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:44:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, dmlb@raet.demon.co.uk X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org !!!! Moved to -scsi !!!! As Simon Shapiro wrote... > > On 06-Mar-98 marino.ladavac@siemens.at wrote: > > ... > > > Honestly, don't you think you're overdoing it a bit here. I mean, we're > > still talking ISP, right? If the power goes, your modems are dead as > > well. > > Nope. There are ISPs and there are ISPs. All the larger ones I visit are > taking their availability very seriously. Many are already on 48VDC. Many > co-locate equipment in NAPs and switching centers, which comply with Telco > standards. > > Consifer a small ISP with, say 5,000 accounts which loses power during ruch > hour. Can you count the number of support calls? You can limit the support calls by running your PABX from the same power grid as your servers ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 7 05:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08965 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 05:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08959 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 05:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id OAA10604; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:50:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA08141; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:25:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980307142504.56324@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:25:04 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: FreeBSD SCSI list Cc: Are Bryne Subject: Re: Booting FreeBSD off SCSI w/o SCSI bios Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Are Bryne on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 06:11:14PM +0100 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Are Bryne wrote: > I've looked at several bootloaders: BootEasy, BS-OS, and (a little at) > GRUB. It seems they all need a SCSI bios to find the scsi disk. Sure, and btw., it's not only the boot selector. The FreeBSD bootblocks itself also rely on the BIOS accessibility of the disk. So there's really no chance to load a kernel off a SCSI disk where the host adaptor has no BIOS. Your only chance is booting off a floppy. Configure your kernel so it has the root f/s on sd0, and boot it with the `-r' option from the floppy (so it doesn't adjust the root filesystem to fd0). Remember, you can put this -r into /boot.config on the floppy. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 7 06:03:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09568 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 06:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA09562 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 06:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 8457 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 1998 14:03:19 +0000 (GMT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, are.bryne@communique.no Subject: Re: Booting FreeBSD off SCSI w/o SCSI bios In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:25:04 +0100" References: <19980307142504.56324@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 15:03:19 +0100 Message-ID: <8455.889279399@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I've looked at several bootloaders: BootEasy, BS-OS, and (a little at) > > GRUB. It seems they all need a SCSI bios to find the scsi disk. > > Sure, and btw., it's not only the boot selector. The FreeBSD bootblocks > itself also rely on the BIOS accessibility of the disk. So there's > really no chance to load a kernel off a SCSI disk where the host > adaptor has no BIOS. Um, the SCSI host adapter BIOS *or* the BIOS on the motherboard needs to know about SCSI disks. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to boot from NCR 810 based host adapters (the 810 has no BIOS itself). Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 7 09:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27290 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:31:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27263; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:31:09 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Stacey Message-Id: <199803071731.JAA27263@hub.freebsd.org> To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG cc: me@FreeBSD.ORG, gj@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: jhs@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi SCSI people, Is it necessary to format a 4.3G SCSI disc on the same system + controller ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:10 that the disc will later run FreeBSD on ? I believe it doesnt' matter which SCSI controller you use to format ? (so long as it issues a sensible sequence of format commands, & does actually format, I think the last of the `format with the controller you will run with' dependencies was back with the ST506 ? I'd agree to `It'd do no harm, why not if you can', but - My box with the NCR SCSI controller has no DOS partition, - The ASUS SCSI controller floppies are for a dos base (& multiple flops, so squeezing down to 1 DOS boot flop would be difficult). - An adjacent system with Adaptec 1542c formats conveniently from bios Ctl. A So I just used the target PC's power, & cross hitched a scsi ribbon to format. It worked fine twice before, only got some bad sectors months later. I bought my first "IBM DCAS-34330 S61A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 1997.08.26, it developed bad sectors 1997.10.09, when I bought another "IBM DCAS-34330 S65A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 to rescue the data to, when I reformatted both discs using the 1542C (I think). The old S61A is now in a 3rd system (1542B), running fine, neither are warm, both have power supplies with good DVM volt readings (but I haven't oscilloscoped the power rail for noise , but yes connectors are tight).. As this was the 2nd set of bad sectors with the S65A, I took it back to the dealer (wasted time, Koenig in Munich Not reccomended !), I'd now like to research deeper, & list both tables of bad sectors & see how full they are, how many tracks dedicated to free sectors etc, & monitor the count regularly, on both discs, & if there's a systematic failure mode on both discs, to ignore the hostile Wintel oriented dealer, & report failure direct to someone at www.storage.ibm.com, if these discs are exhibing some batch oriented bad sector growth symptoms. I read man [0-9] scsi /usr/share/misc/scsi_modes /usr/include/scsi.h & happen to have a Seagate SCSI booklet, but it's heavy going, & a few more example commands would help both `man scsi` & me. BTW on my 2.2.5 system with the NCR controller, (with root on wd0) I did: scsi -f /dev/rsd0c -m 1 -e -P 3 AWRE (Auto Write Reallocation Enbld): 1 ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation Enbld): 1 [ so the disc _should_ be self correcting, but obviously isn't, is running out of sectors ] TB (Transfer Block): 0 RC (Read Continuous): 0 PER (Post Error): 0 DTE (Disable Transfer on Error): 0 DCR (Disable Correction): 0 Read Retry Count: 1 Correction Span: 0 Write Retry Count: 1 scsi -f /dev/rsd0c -c "4 0 0 0 0 0" SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl: Command accepted. return status 1 (Command Timeout) after 2000 msCommand out (6 of 6): 04 00 00 00 00 00 No sense sent. [ Don't know what's wrong Then I gave up & formatted with 1542C (with no problem). So I'll now rebuild with this drive, & in another few months I expect it will develop bad sectors again ..... Any suggestions, sample scsi systax ? PS I'm fresh subscribed to scsi@, but no traffic yet, so a cc: jhs@freebsd.org would make sure I see your reply ... Thanks ! Julian Julian H. Stacey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 7 14:20:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21326 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:20:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21236; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09981; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:19:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id XAA00401; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:14:14 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:14:13 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: jhs@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: me@FreeBSD.ORG, gj@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser Subject: Re: your mail References: <199803071731.JAA27263@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803071731.JAA27263@hub.freebsd.org>; from Julian Stacey on Sat, Mar 07, 1998 at 09:31:09AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1998-03-07 09:31 -0800, Julian Stacey wrote: > Hi SCSI people, Hi Julian! > Is it necessary to format a 4.3G SCSI disc on the same system + controller > ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:10 > that the disc will later run FreeBSD on ? > I believe it doesnt' matter which SCSI controller you use to format ? > (so long as it issues a sensible sequence of format commands, > & does actually format, The low level format is initiated by sending a standard SCSI command to the drive. But you normally should not do this, as has just been discussed in another mail list (-hackers ?). The MBR contains assumed geometry information, and if you don't use "dangerously dedicated" mode, then you have to make sure the information matches what the SCSI card's BIOS assumes. The NCR SDMS code is very flexible, it has a default geometry, but reads in the MDR and accepts a geometry that has been used by some other SCSI BIOS before (e.g. if an AH2940 was used in the installation process and the drive is moved to a 53c8xx later). > I think the last of the `format with the controller you will run with' > dependencies was back with the ST506 ? I never used one. The first small system with hard-disk that I used for some time had a 3.5" Rodime 5MB SCSI drive (connected to a Z80 single board card with the SCSI host adapter implemented by means of a modified parallel port). > I'd agree to `It'd do no harm, why not if you can', but > - My box with the NCR SCSI controller has no DOS partition, The ASUS SCSI controller floppies are for a dos base (& multiple flops, > so squeezing down to 1 DOS boot flop would be difficult). > - An adjacent system with Adaptec 1542c formats conveniently from bios Ctl. A > So I just used the target PC's power, & cross hitched a scsi ribbon to format. > It worked fine twice before, only got some bad sectors months later. Hmmm ... > I bought my first > "IBM DCAS-34330 S61A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > 1997.08.26, it developed bad sectors 1997.10.09, when I bought another > "IBM DCAS-34330 S65A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > to rescue the data to, when I reformatted both discs using the 1542C (I think). > The old S61A is now in a 3rd system (1542B), running fine, > neither are warm, both have power supplies with good DVM volt readings > (but I haven't oscilloscoped the power rail for noise , > but yes connectors are tight).. > > As this was the 2nd set of bad sectors with the S65A, I took it back to the > dealer (wasted time, Koenig in Munich Not reccomended !), I'd now like > to research deeper, & list both tables of bad sectors & see how full they are, > how many tracks dedicated to free sectors etc, & monitor the count regularly, > on both discs, & if there's a systematic failure mode on both discs, > to ignore the hostile Wintel oriented dealer, & report failure direct to > someone at www.storage.ibm.com, if these discs are exhibing some batch > oriented bad sector growth symptoms. Do you know about the S.M.A.R.T features of the DCAS drives ? There should be some information available from the IBM storage devices Web server. I haven't looked into this in detail, but it should provide you with information on the health of the drive and with early warnings in case of soft errors or marginal behaviour. > I read > man [0-9] scsi > /usr/share/misc/scsi_modes > /usr/include/scsi.h > & happen to have a Seagate SCSI booklet, but it's heavy going, > & a few more example commands would help both `man scsi` & me. > > BTW on my 2.2.5 system with the NCR controller, (with root on wd0) I did: > scsi -f /dev/rsd0c -m 1 -e -P 3 > AWRE (Auto Write Reallocation Enbld): 1 > ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation Enbld): 1 > [ so the disc _should_ be self correcting, > but obviously isn't, is running out of sectors ] This will only help, if errors develop slowly after setting the flags. The drive will take a (recovered) severe soft read failure as a signal to reallocate the block. But in case of a hard error, there is no way to rescue the old contents of the sectors, and the drive will flag the reallocated block as invalid, until new data is written to it for the first time. > TB (Transfer Block): 0 > RC (Read Continuous): 0 > PER (Post Error): 0 > DTE (Disable Transfer on Error): 0 > DCR (Disable Correction): 0 > Read Retry Count: 1 > Correction Span: 0 > Write Retry Count: 1 Hmmm, I've got 8 for both retry count values ... > scsi -f /dev/rsd0c -c "4 0 0 0 0 0" > SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl: Command accepted. > return status 1 (Command Timeout) after 2000 msCommand out (6 of 6): > 04 00 00 00 00 00 > No sense sent. > [ Don't know what's wrong The script /sbin/scsiformat adds a "-s 7200" timeout parameter. You may need to increase that number, depending on the capacity of your drive and the time per cylinder of the drive's implementation if format in the firmware. > Then I gave up & formatted with 1542C (with no problem). > So I'll now rebuild with this drive, & in another few months I expect it will > develop bad sectors again ..... Any suggestions, sample scsi systax ? Have a look at /sbin/scsiformat. I never tried it (don't want to format any of my drives, currently :) but others reported success ... > PS I'm fresh subscribed to scsi@, but no traffic yet, > so a cc: jhs@freebsd.org would make sure I see your reply ... Thanks ! Traffic on -scsi varies depending on the respective activity of the developers. Guess that the import of Justin Gibbs new generic SCSI layer will make this list much more interesting over the next few weeks :) Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-scsi Sat Mar 7 18:22:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13728 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:22:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (0@pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13709; Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no) Received: from idi.ntnu.no (tegge@presis.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.111.173]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA21829; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 03:21:53 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199803080221.DAA21829@pat.idi.ntnu.no> To: jhs@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, me@FreeBSD.ORG, gj@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: scsi defects monitoring In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:31:09 -0800 (PST)" References: <199803071731.JAA27263@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 03:21:52 +0100 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As this was the 2nd set of bad sectors with the S65A, I took it back to the > dealer (wasted time, Koenig in Munich Not reccomended !), I'd now like > to research deeper, & list both tables of bad sectors & see how full they are, > how many tracks dedicated to free sectors etc, & monitor the count regularly, > on both discs, & if there's a systematic failure mode on both discs, > to ignore the hostile Wintel oriented dealer, & report failure direct to > someone at www.storage.ibm.com, if these discs are exhibing some batch > oriented bad sector growth symptoms. > > I read > man [0-9] scsi > /usr/share/misc/scsi_modes > /usr/include/scsi.h > & happen to have a Seagate SCSI booklet, but it's heavy going, > & a few more example commands would help both `man scsi` & me. Take a look at scsi-defects.pl. It can extract both the primary and grown defect list from the disk. You find it in the /usr/src/tools/tools/scsi-defects directory. You should be aware of the bug discussed in PR#5846 if you are running 3.0-CURRENT and attempts to use this program. Last week, after having been forced to low level format the system disk on the machine which acts as cvsup.no.freebsd.org, I've started using that program from cron to monitor the growth of the grown defect lists on the attached disks. - Tor Egge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message