From owner-freebsd-small Sun Nov 1 12:28:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01192 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01181 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA22564; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:34:14 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:34:14 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Terry Lambert cc: Bryan Mann , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unified Configuration Interface In-Reply-To: <36395AF4.7614@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1620366380-909952454=:3168" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1620366380-909952454=:3168 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi again, This is my today's proposition on the subject.. :-) The copy of this went into CVS repo, and from this point on please refer to this copy. I attach it to this posting. All comments are, as always, welcome. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- --0-1620366380-909952454=:3168 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="UCI.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="UCI.html" PGh0bWw+DQo8ISAkSWQkID4NCjxib2R5Pg0KPGgxPjxjZW50ZXI+CQlVbmlm aWVkIENvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gSW50ZXJmYWNlIFByb2plY3QNCjwvY2VudGVy PjwvaDE+DQoNCjxwPiBIZXJlJ3MgYSBwcmVsaW1pbmFyeSBhdHRlbXB0IHRv IG9yZ2FuaXplIGFsbCAod2VsbCwgbW9zdCkNCmNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gdGFz a3MgYW5kIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgb2YgUGljb0JTRCBzeXN0ZW0gaW4gaGllcmFy Y2h5DQpvZiBjYXRlZ29yaWVzLiA8L3A+DQoNCjxwPiBUaGlzIGZvcm1zIGEg c29ydCBvZiBmcmFtZXdvcmssIGJhc2luZyBvbiB3aGljaCBvbmUgY2FuIGlt cGxlbWVudA0KY29uc2lzdGVudCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGZpbGUocyksIGFu ZCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHV0aWxpdGllcy4gPC9wPg0KDQo8cD4gSG93ZXZl 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1998 13:25:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from diabolique.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.98]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3D9D; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:25:35 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 22:29:28 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Unified Configuration Interface Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG, Bryan Mann , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 01-Nov-98 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Hi again, > > This is my today's proposition on the subject.. :-) Woe to us mere mortals ;) I'll have a read through it and comment on it where deemed necessary. Btw, this is a set-up for general inner workings and command interface structuring right? Any work done on actual technologies we can install using modularity? Any work done at all on creating a set-up for modularity? (Besides that which I wrote in one of my previous long-winded mails ;) regards, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Nov 2 01:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08005 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hsw.generalresources.com ([203.79.17.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07977 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hsw@email.generalresources.com) Received: from hsw.generalresources.com (localhost.generalresources.com [127.0.0.1]) by hsw.generalresources.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05192; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:10:52 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from hsw@hsw.generalresources.com) Message-Id: <199811020910.RAA05192@hsw.generalresources.com> To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG From: Christopher Hall Reply-to: Christopher Hall Subject: Re: Out of inodes for custom build In-reply-to: Message of "Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:29:47 +0100." X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0 X-Mailer: exmh 2.0 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:10:51 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for the info. Maybe I found another bug: There was a symbolic link that should not have been created. It looked to me like ln -sf ${CUST_DIR} custom fails the second time it runs, because it resolves 'custom' link before trying the unlink. As a quick check I tried: [hsw:/tmp]# mkdir test [hsw:/tmp]# ln -sf test ttt [hsw:/tmp]# ln -sf test ttt [hsw:/tmp]# ls -l t* lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 4 Nov 2 15:33 ttt -> test test: total 0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 4 Nov 2 15:33 test -> test [hsw:/tmp]# Not sure if this is the expected from ln. I also modified the build command to keep the contents of the custom symbolic as a default for the custom directory screen and to display this directory in the menu when the type is custom. begin 644 build.diff.gz M'XL("!%J/38``V(N9&EF9@"=5&MOVC`4_3B%7W$:(144$IK0TI:I4Q^C%5); M32O57IK:$$QC86+D.&.LX[_/3H)+Z<:FY8N3^)YSK\^]/J[K8I!1-O0X&UH? MR!`W9(J@A2#H[.UV=MOP#P\/*H[C%&'6%4]PS;\!`?QV9Z?=V=TM0HZ/X>[O M-/P`CE[:.#ZN(&(D%!60*.:PW3<",RA@CSAB?Z<]I*,()D42D';L, M=Q/85G\^)1WHI_K8__2NN[`K#AWA"^R/RQ\X4A]1EDH^L?&UXLB8)!7',ARH M51_/;F_Z=V][[Q=UA1_1"@Q'[[K75QQ;FD3#DALQ/IW./2D(45],U:N6R2@M_M2])R8EG25(.(0[A=U-5->UZBCR8D@%B207 M\X[2<=DX)>X_($RGN^#"P]E: M&BU?PB4&!$G&V):=H[Y3"5_5N9ZEK.4IDPHI9_2_B'F.65DA9*FT/J% M8#09>S@9<"'5U?0\;U7*G9*SDXS>2>I9,3< MN[-,"*)TS8U\Q7(1"J(MJK#CW(%7;FII0+[W6S-^\KP_1OS%KTW_EI:[9M=6 =;K-F7_]YKM8+"R\8L4185NAM-.1?I=A)*00'``!^ ` end In message , And rzej Bialecki writes: >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Christopher Hall wrote: > >> >> Just tried to build a version of dial without ssh >> and received an out of inodes message. >> >> I did "cp -Rp dial dial2"; edit out ssh stuff and >> > >Hmmm.. This is intentional. Usually, you want it mounted to check what >really failed. When you restart the build process, it's unmounted anyway. > >Andrzej Bialecki > >-------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- > ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: > Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" > Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ >-------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- > --- Christopher Hall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Nov 5 14:58:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14550 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:58:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.nsl.ru (gw1.nsl.ru [195.210.169.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA14539 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:58:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstef@nsl.ru) Received: from nsl.ru (unverified [195.210.171.101]) by goldgate.nsl.ru (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:57:25 +0300 Message-ID: <36422D61.A71C32E6@nsl.ru> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:57:37 +0300 From: Dmitry Stefankov Reply-To: dstef@nsl.ru Organization: NSL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-small To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 04:39:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24645 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24631 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.34]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA568F; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:39:07 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:43:06 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: picoBSD , Andrzej Bialecki Subject: *BSD small effort Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys, just wondering, do OpenBSD and NetBSD also have something akin to the picoBSD effort? Because if they have or haven't it might be interesting to poll for people there who are interested in supporting such a project. I mean, we have Terry who looks at it from the InterJet perspective (combined hw/sw solution), Andrzej for the whole project, some others for the embedded stuff, some others and myself as a low-end router/firewall/dial solution OS. Just a thought... Oh and Andrzej, I am busy on yer UCI.html page with some changes... Hope to get it to ye asap. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 09:09:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27330 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bolero-x.rahul.net (bolero.rahul.net [192.160.13.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27315 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:08:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randyd@rahul.net) Received: from bolero.rahul.net by bolero-x.rahul.net with SMTP id AA13147 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:08:42 -0800 Received: from dyn123.rahul.net [206.61.225.123] by bolero.rahul.net with smtp (Exim 1.71 #13) id 0zbpLp-0003Jt-00; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:07:10 -0800 X-Sender: randyd@bolero.rahul.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:00:58 -0800 To: picoBSD From: Randy Devol Subject: Re: *BSD small effort In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:43 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >Hi guys, > >just wondering, do OpenBSD and NetBSD also have something akin to the picoBSD >effort? Not to my knowledge. I would like to see one in the near future. I may put in some time to port the concepts/scripts/etc. to NetBSD. Then again, I may simply use the existing tools to create a small-ish NetBSD. That may be small enough. -=O=- Randy In "A Scanner Darkly," was Philip K. Dick foreshadowing Web commerce: "Someday, he thought, it'll be mandatory that we all sell the McDonald's hamburger as well as buy it; we'll sell it back and forth to each other forever from our living rooms." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 10:11:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06195 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06185 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-28.aei.ca [206.186.204.178]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23464 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:11:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36433B8E.78D0E8C1@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:10:23 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: School Server & PicoBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm near 16 years old :-) I would like to show at my school how FreeBSD is powerful, but also get some technical skills with servers. If the admin let me play with is stupid machine of course.. We have something like 70-90 computers, (30 Macs, 30 WinNT and 30 Win95. I don't know why they buyed so much systems: it simply don't work properly. When we are a class of people on the net at the same time, it can take up to 10 minute to load a page. The server is ... a WinNT+a hub solution. Has I never worked with WinNT and with Ethernet system, I would like to know: -Is it a problem with Ethernet (I think they use 10baseT), WinNT or both? -Would PicoBSD change that? (talking about speed) Because I would like to bring PicoBSD, simply enter it and reboot. The only job I want him to do is to act has a server(gateway?) to access internet. The main problem are: -I don't currently know the hardware of the server. But it's not bullshit I think. Certainly a P200 and + -I never worked with Ethernet, I don't know the architecture of the school system. -PicoBSD would not have a swap partition (which could bring some problem, neh?) Now, could it be possible to: Simply reboot with PicoBSD, configure the kernel (I know how to do that), configure the Ethernet(that's the real new part), reboot, working. It would be a demonstration. Would it be simple? Should I use the router version? What are the file to edit in /etc? Can I recompile a kernel under PicoBSD? What are the kernel tweaking for such a server? Tank you -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 12:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27198 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:29:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27182 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.164]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4FF7; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:29:34 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36433B8E.78D0E8C1@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:33:37 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Malartre Subject: RE: School Server & PicoBSD Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Nov-98 Malartre wrote: > Hi, I'm near 16 years old :-) Hi mate, 20 here =) > I would like to show at my school how FreeBSD is powerful, but also get > some technical skills with servers. If the admin let me play with is > stupid machine of course.. That's always the issue... Be careful, if ye get caught while not having the authorisation ye might be in for some surprises =\ > We have something like 70-90 computers, (30 Macs, 30 WinNT and 30 Win95. > I don't know why they buyed so much systems: it simply don't work > properly. What they using as default protocol? TCP/IP? > When we are a class of people on the net at the same time, it can take > up to 10 minute to load a page. The server is ... a WinNT+a hub > solution. So that means a 10 or 100 MBit shared uplink to the workstations. Class being 20 people? > Has I never worked with WinNT and with Ethernet system, I would like to > know: > > -Is it a problem with Ethernet (I think they use 10baseT), WinNT or > both? Nah, Ethernet without SAP/RIP broadcast crap is very adequate and fast... > -Would PicoBSD change that? (talking about speed) Don't really think so... The hub is a problem IMHO... At my job we have a dedicated Shiva router for the uplink to UUNet and packetswitch it to the backbone... > Because I would like to bring PicoBSD, simply enter it and reboot. That might work. The booting that is... > The only job I want him to do is to act has a server(gateway?) to access > internet. > The main problem are: > -I don't currently know the hardware of the server. But it's not > bullshit I think. Certainly a P200 and + Hardware might be a problem... > -I never worked with Ethernet, I don't know the architecture of the > school system. Why should Ethernet stop ye? it's simply the cabling and lowerlevel encapsulation of data... > -PicoBSD would not have a swap partition (which could bring some > problem, neh?) Especially for WWW-proxies... > Now, could it be possible to: > Simply reboot with PicoBSD, configure the kernel (I know how to do > that), configure the Ethernet(that's the real new part), reboot, > working. Configure the Ethernet? Not needed... Nope... Most likely, since it is one server doing the Internet load it will need a www-proxy like Squid or the likes... > It would be a demonstration. > > Would it be simple? Depends on which aspect ye referring too. Booting? Aye. Overal picture? Nay. > Should I use the router version? Depends on what the Internet uplink is. HTH some, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 13:12:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03197 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03102 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02310; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:14:36 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:14:36 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Randy Devol cc: picoBSD Subject: Re: *BSD small effort In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Randy Devol wrote: > At 01:43 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >Hi guys, > > > >just wondering, do OpenBSD and NetBSD also have something akin to the picoBSD > >effort? > > Not to my knowledge. I would like to see one in the near future. I may > put in some time to port the concepts/scripts/etc. to NetBSD. Then again, > I may simply use the existing tools to create a small-ish NetBSD. That may > be small enough. Better yet, don't port it but devise some other way to build the image so that its components are easily changeable... This is IMO the biggest disdavantage of picobsd for now. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 14:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12131 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12123 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:23:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.164]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4372; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:23:00 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:27:03 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: *BSD small effort Cc: picoBSD , Randy Devol Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Nov-98 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Randy Devol wrote: > >> At 01:43 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> >just wondering, do OpenBSD and NetBSD also have something akin to the >> >picoBSD >> >effort? >> >> Not to my knowledge. I would like to see one in the near future. I may >> put in some time to port the concepts/scripts/etc. to NetBSD. Then again, >> I may simply use the existing tools to create a small-ish NetBSD. That may >> be small enough. > > Better yet, don't port it but devise some other way to build the image so > that its components are easily changeable... This is IMO the biggest > disdavantage of picobsd for now. What can we do to make it modular? We need to devise an install thing that will allow for a choice of components and build a customised picoBSD. Also if we could define settings to which it has to fullfill that would be a major plus... Like: Memory footprint allowed: 4< MB 4 MB 5 MB etc... Allow me to poll NetBSD and OpenBSD on small set-ups --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 15:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17027 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:01:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17014 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.164]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA67E1; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:00:45 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:04:49 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: tech-misc@netbsd, picoBSD , tech@openbsd.org Subject: Small/embedded set-ups Cc: Andrzej Bialecki Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiya fellow *BSD'ers just a question, us at FreeBSD are working on a project that focusses on small set-ups such as low memory machines and embedded systems. At the moment we have some great ideas, but like to know how other BSD groups regard this whole issue and even help on it with ideas or code. http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd The project maintainer is Andrzej Bialecki which I cc:-ed. Hope to hear from ye guys... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist *BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 16:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00566 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tasha.STARDreams.org (maccess-01-030.magna.com.au [203.111.85.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00527 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:35:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hwg@stardreams.dyn.ml.org) Received: from EventHorizon (EventHorizon.STARDreams.org [10.144.144.1]) by Tasha.STARDreams.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA03311; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:35:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hwg@stardreams.dyn.ml.org) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981107113531.037fe7d0@Tasha.STARDreams.org> X-Sender: hwg@Tasha.STARDreams.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:35:31 +1100 To: Malartre , small@FreeBSD.ORG From: K Subject: Re: School Server & PicoBSD In-Reply-To: <36433B8E.78D0E8C1@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 13:10 11/6/98 -0500, Malartre wrote: >-Is it a problem with Ethernet (I think they use 10baseT), WinNT or >both? Not so much a problem with Ethernet, operating at 10Mbps, more of a problem with the uplink, as in the school's link to their ISP. Ethernet's pretty darn fast, even at 10, capable of pushing around 1.2MBytes/sec. Sounds like your school hasn't spent enough money on their uplink :) (My guess is that it could be ISDN, either single (64K) or dual (128B) channel.. or *gasp* god forbid, MODEM!) >-Would PicoBSD change that? (talking about speed) Not really. The congestion problem would still remain. While I'm not really all that hot for NT as a network OS ("NT Server" is an oxymoron, or a joke in bad taste), don't be so quick to blame it :P >Because I would like to bring PicoBSD, simply enter it and reboot. >The only job I want him to do is to act has a server(gateway?) to access >internet. >The main problem are: >-I don't currently know the hardware of the server. But it's not >bullshit I think. Certainly a P200 and + >-I never worked with Ethernet, I don't know the architecture of the >school system. My recommendation is that you study their network in greater detail, it's interesting, there's a lot to know about it, and it's fun too (that's what got me started). Knowing how all elements of the network behave is the first step to pinpointing and resolving the problem. To implement a solution like this properly, first find out what is their uplink, how it communicates with the server (serial? Ethernet port? Multihomed system? etc). There are a couple of ways to increase speed without upgrading the uplink, but this would actually require a full-blown FreeBSD system. I use a FreeBSD box as a comms server for the rest of my boxes at home (NT on most), and I find that on a modem, a caching DNS nameserver and the squid HTTP cache greatly accelerate the speed of my web browsing - especially useful in your case if the students hit the same site repeatedly, in my experience with fellow college students, hotmail seems to be a prime candidate for caching :) Squid stores copies of frequently used pages and especially images (which are the biggest eaters of bandwidth, I'm not so worried about text data) locally, and thus are accessible at full 10Mbps speed (or 100 in my case :) without any traffic being sent across the slow uplink. Maybe you could try pulling this trick with a Zip disk as a friend suggested. Make a PicoBSD boot disk, keep it aside, then make a regular FreeBSD installation disk. Boot the installation disk, with the Zip mounted as fixed media, newfs the thing into one big 100MB partition, prep it for boot, but don't install any of the regular FreeBSD distributions, leave it empty. Then boot the PicoBSD floppy and copy everything in / to the Zip disk. Have the squid package and pkg_add handy somewhere, so you can throw them on the Zip disk too and install squid from a package (I'm not un-tarring the ports collection to a Zip, no way! ;) Then boot the Zip disk, you've got PicoBSD on a boot disk AND squid (wanna try packing bind8 too, for the caching DNS? ;) Any comments on the feasibility of this idea are welcome. I don't have a Zip drive at the moment or bootable SCSI card to try it out, so if anybody succeeds in this endeavor, let me know :) -- K "Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 20:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24165 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:50:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24133 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:49:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-41.aei.ca [206.186.204.191]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18941; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:49:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3643D103.30CCF34B@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:48:03 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: K CC: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: School Server & PicoBSD References: <3.0.3.32.19981107113531.037fe7d0@Tasha.STARDreams.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG K wrote: > > At 13:10 11/6/98 -0500, Malartre wrote: > >-Is it a problem with Ethernet (I think they use 10baseT), WinNT or > >both? > > Not so much a problem with Ethernet, operating at 10Mbps, more of a problem > with the uplink, as in the school's link to their ISP. Ethernet's pretty > darn fast, even at 10, capable of pushing around 1.2MBytes/sec. Sounds like > your school hasn't spent enough money on their uplink :) (My guess is that > it could be ISDN, either single (64K) or dual (128B) channel.. or *gasp* > god forbid, MODEM!) > > >-Would PicoBSD change that? (talking about speed) > > Not really. The congestion problem would still remain. While I'm not really > all that hot for NT as a network OS ("NT Server" is an oxymoron, or a joke > in bad taste), don't be so quick to blame it :P > > >Because I would like to bring PicoBSD, simply enter it and reboot. > >The only job I want him to do is to act has a server(gateway?) to access > >internet. > >The main problem are: > >-I don't currently know the hardware of the server. But it's not > >bullshit I think. Certainly a P200 and + > > >-I never worked with Ethernet, I don't know the architecture of the > >school system. > > My recommendation is that you study their network in greater detail, it's > interesting, there's a lot to know about it, and it's fun too (that's what > got me started). Knowing how all elements of the network behave is the > first step to pinpointing and resolving the problem. To implement a > solution like this properly, first find out what is their uplink, how it > communicates with the server (serial? Ethernet port? Multihomed system? etc). > > There are a couple of ways to increase speed without upgrading the uplink, > but this would actually require a full-blown FreeBSD system. I use a > FreeBSD box as a comms server for the rest of my boxes at home (NT on > most), and I find that on a modem, a caching DNS nameserver and the squid > HTTP cache greatly accelerate the speed of my web browsing - especially > useful in your case if the students hit the same site repeatedly, in my > experience with fellow college students, hotmail seems to be a prime > candidate for caching :) > > Squid stores copies of frequently used pages and especially images (which > are the biggest eaters of bandwidth, I'm not so worried about text data) > locally, and thus are accessible at full 10Mbps speed (or 100 in my case :) > without any traffic being sent across the slow uplink. > > Maybe you could try pulling this trick with a Zip disk as a friend > suggested. Make a PicoBSD boot disk, keep it aside, then make a regular > FreeBSD installation disk. Boot the installation disk, with the Zip mounted > as fixed media, newfs the thing into one big 100MB partition, prep it for > boot, but don't install any of the regular FreeBSD distributions, leave it > empty. Then boot the PicoBSD floppy and copy everything in / to the Zip > disk. Have the squid package and pkg_add handy somewhere, so you can throw > them on the Zip disk too and install squid from a package (I'm not > un-tarring the ports collection to a Zip, no way! ;) > > Then boot the Zip disk, you've got PicoBSD on a boot disk AND squid (wanna > try packing bind8 too, for the caching DNS? ;) > > Any comments on the feasibility of this idea are welcome. I don't have a > Zip drive at the moment or bootable SCSI card to try it out, so if anybody > succeeds in this endeavor, let me know :) > > -- > K > > "Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow." They are lame and lazy. :-) Anyway, it's my parent who paid all that stuff with taxes.. And it's really scrap. Computer in school is not a good idea, if you don't have competent teachers and good application (since we use only netscape and MS-Office..) I think I will start by asking one simple machine, maybe we need a mail server, since they only do shitty internet for so-called "research". In fact I play Java-Chess..! Really, I hate what we do with this $$$ equipments. I want to install rc5-craking on all of the machines! (huh, 90 machines always online and idle!) Ok, I resume: the Ethernet is NOT a problem since the hub do the job. The uplink is the "bottleneck". In the Netscape config, they use a proxie address. So the server is acting has a proxie server. I would need squid to speed up things (has a cache server). Tank you Jeroen and K, I think now the main job is convincing the admin to let me take one computer for the fun of doing it! My excuse will be a mail server for the school. And I know they need a server for web page. Hum, learning apache to.. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 21:14:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26229 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tasha.STARDreams.org (maccess-01-030.magna.com.au [203.111.85.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26219 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hwg@stardreams.dyn.ml.org) Received: from EventHorizon (EventHorizon.STARDreams.org [10.144.144.1]) by Tasha.STARDreams.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA05704; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:13:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hwg@stardreams.dyn.ml.org) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981107161408.0092b600@Tasha.STARDreams.org> X-Sender: hwg@Tasha.STARDreams.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:14:08 +1100 To: Malartre From: K Subject: Re: School Server & PicoBSD Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3643D103.30CCF34B@aei.ca> References: <3.0.3.32.19981107113531.037fe7d0@Tasha.STARDreams.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 23:48 11/6/98 -0500, Malartre wrote: >They are lame and lazy. :-) Wasn't much better at my highschool either ;) It's somewhat better at college, but their Exchange server still goes up and down like the tide.. (with the tide? Heh. ;) >Computer in school is not a good idea, if you don't have competent >teachers and good application (since we use only netscape and >MS-Office..) This is true. I don't think being taught how to type in Word (or any other word processor) is funny. >I think I will start by asking one simple machine, maybe we need a mail >server, since they only do shitty internet for so-called "research". In >fact I play Java-Chess..! Really, I hate what we do with this $$$ >equipments. I want to install rc5-craking on all of the machines! (huh, >90 machines always online and idle!) Sneak it in. No, I did not just say that. :) (You can do it, but you're on your own should the admins find out you're hijacking CPU power..) >Ok, I resume: the Ethernet is NOT a problem since the hub do the job. >The uplink is the "bottleneck". >In the Netscape config, they use a proxie address. So the server is >acting has a proxie server. >I would need squid to speed up things (has a cache server). Yup. You'd need squid installed, and Netscape has to be informed to use the squid cache. >Tank you Jeroen and K, I think now the main job is convincing the admin >to let me take one computer for the fun of doing it! >My excuse will be a mail server for the school. >And I know they need a server for web page. Hum, learning apache to.. This is your chance, show them what a full-blown FreeBSD server can do. You don't need much actually, anything upwards of a 486DX2 with 16MB of RAM and around 1-2GB of hard disk space should be comfortable. Of course the more hardware you can lay your hands on, the better. sendmail is installed by default, you can easily pop Squid in there, apache... one thing about apache is that it's been MUCH easier to configure and specify exactly where I want my security to apply, and so much more powerful than other web servers I've used - I find editing .conf files much easier than Netscape FastTrack's (admittedly yes, Win32 :P) web browser configuration interface. It's not difficult. Good luck with your endeavor :) -- K "Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 21:58:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28572 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:58:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bolero-x.rahul.net (bolero.rahul.net [192.160.13.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA28566 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randyd@rahul.net) Received: from bolero.rahul.net by bolero-x.rahul.net with SMTP id AA13048 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:58:04 -0800 Received: from dyn126.rahul.net [206.61.225.126] by bolero.rahul.net with smtp (Exim 1.71 #13) id 0zc1MN-0003Jo-00; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:56:32 -0800 X-Sender: randyd@bolero.rahul.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:40:54 -0800 To: Andrzej Bialecki From: Randy Devol Subject: Re: *BSD small effort Cc: picoBSD In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:14 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > >Better yet, don't port it but devise some other way to build the image so >that its components are easily changeable... This is IMO the biggest >disdavantage of picobsd for now. Do you mean configurable kernels without recompiling? How is that different from LKM's? (I know I don't want to invent/reinvent a scheme like LKM's.) -=O=- Randy In "A Scanner Darkly," was Philip K. Dick foreshadowing Web commerce: "Someday, he thought, it'll be mandatory that we all sell the McDonald's hamburger as well as buy it; we'll sell it back and forth to each other forever from our living rooms." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Nov 6 22:06:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29204 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:06:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29199 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-41.aei.ca [206.186.204.191]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25249; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:05:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3643E2EA.7261F918@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:04:26 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: K CC: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: School Server & PicoBSD References: <3.0.3.32.19981107113531.037fe7d0@Tasha.STARDreams.org> <3.0.3.32.19981107161408.0092b600@Tasha.STARDreams.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG K wrote: > This is true. I don't think being taught how to type in Word (or any other > word processor) is funny. Computer definitions for average users: The combination of a luxurious typewriter, a TV and a Nintendo. Sorry, could not resist :-) -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Nov 7 10:54:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27050 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27045 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA20079; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:59:34 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:59:34 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Randy Devol cc: picoBSD Subject: Re: *BSD small effort In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Randy Devol wrote: > At 10:14 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > > >Better yet, don't port it but devise some other way to build the image so > >that its components are easily changeable... This is IMO the biggest > >disdavantage of picobsd for now. > > Do you mean configurable kernels without recompiling? How is that > different from LKM's? (I know I don't want to invent/reinvent a scheme > like LKM's.) Ehm. No, not exactly... though ability to install only minimal kernel, and then load necessary modules is also very important, and with the new KLD is at last possible. But I meant that the set of user-level programs should be easily modified, allowing to build them separately, and for adding on one-by-one basis. Some time ago I tried to make a floppy installation using shared libraries and dynamically linked executables... Well, they just took too much space. It may be different now, with ELF - want to check it? Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Nov 7 10:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27257 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27239 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21735; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:02:16 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:02:16 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: picoBSD , Randy Devol Subject: Re: *BSD small effort In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > What can we do to make it modular? > > We need to devise an install thing that will allow for a choice of components > and build a customised picoBSD. Also if we could define settings to which it Yes, I agree. > has to fullfill that would be a major plus... Like: > > Memory footprint allowed: > > 4< MB > 4 MB > 5 MB > etc... Again, I agree - this would be cool to have... > > Allow me to poll NetBSD and OpenBSD on small set-ups Sure, go ask them. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message