From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 4 21: 4: 0 1999
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http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/20399.html
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Jessem.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 5 10:29:40 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:25:16 +0100
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
To: advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: FreeBSD mentioned in new O'Reilly book
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Today I bought a copy of the newly published (May 1999) O'Reilly
book "Programming with Qt" by Matthias Kalle Dalheimer.
In the first chapter he mentions FreeBSD twice, "...popular free
Unix-like operating systems, such as Linux or FreeBSD....". I don't
know if there are further references (give me a chance, it's a
350-page book).
OK, so it's not earth-shattering FreeBSD advocacy but it's good to
see an author not using "Linux" as an umbrella term for free Unix.
Nice one, Matthias.
There is also a short section "Red Hat's position towards Qt" in
which he explains that Red Hat's opinion is that Qt is not free
according to their deinition of free. I don't know whether he
intends it as a criticism of Red Hat but I certainly read it as
such.
--
FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org
My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov
_______________________________________________________________
Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK
CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry
mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 5 12:46:31 1999
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Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:46:30 -0500
From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" <pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co>
Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia
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I nice article, mentioning PicoBSD !
http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9906of2.shtml
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 11: 3: 8 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:58:37 -0400 (EDT)
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I was listening to the SANS web cast for IP Concepts: A SANS
LevelOne Short Course and he ( sorry can't remember his name ) mentioned
FreeBSD's /etc/service list as being very good and one he recommends for
info on service/port data. This is kind of funny given the recent
discussion about what port radius should be listed at :-)
The course was pretty basic, but he covered the basic ip topics
pretty well.
Joseph Scott
joseph@randomnetworks.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 13:11:54 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:09:44 -0500
From: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Cheesy benchmarks
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It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
amazingly -- well -- stupid.
http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
--
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
The whole is the sum of its parts, plus one or more bugs
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 16:57:22 1999
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From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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To: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
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Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> amazingly -- well -- stupid.
>
> http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
(if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 17: 3:59 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:38 -0500
From: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
>
> > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> > amazingly -- well -- stupid.
> >
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
>
> What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are
making both the server and client on the same single machine.
>
> Kris
>
> -----
> "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
> because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
> -- Unknown
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
--
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 17: 7: 6 1999
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From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
> >
> > What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> > (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
>
> The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are
> making both the server and client on the same single machine.
Fair enough, that does seem silly.
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 17:57:26 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@freebsd.org,
advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you
are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same
thing in the other. It's skewed.
Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081
veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com
Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD
== The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 6 18:28:44 1999
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From: Ask Bjoern Hansen <ask@valueclick.com>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@freebsd.org,
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Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> > amazingly -- well -- stupid.
> >
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
>
> What's stupid about them? [...]
That they're distributed out of context.
The context was not OS benchmarking, but comparing different ways of
generating content.
- ask
--
ask bjoern hansen - <http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/>
more than 14M impressions per day, <http://valueclick.com>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 0:58: 8 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:10:34 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>,
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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Alex Perel writes:
>
> The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you
> are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same
> thing in the other. It's skewed.
I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact
that it's not even worth calling it a bench:
- inconsistent setup
- no tuning description
- no optimization description
- no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since
this one will obviously stay in memory)
etc...
It's just not a benchmark.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 1: 3: 1 1999
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Not sure if this got send; Sorry if you
get his twice.
Linux is like a Chinese peasant uprising
http://www.salon.com/tech/log/1999/07/06/linux_china/index.html
Archived usual place.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 1: 3: 3 1999
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Subject: Salon.com:Linux is like a Chinese peasant uprising
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Linux is like a Chinese peasant uprising
http://www.salon.com/tech/log/1999/07/06/linux_china/index.html
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 6:12:42 1999
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From: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>,
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact
> that it's not even worth calling it a bench:
>
> - inconsistent setup
> - no tuning description
> - no optimization description
> - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since
> this one will obviously stay in memory)
>
> etc...
>
> It's just not a benchmark.
It's a wonderful display of incompetence and lack of thought, that's what it
is. Methinks it was done haphazardly, and for what purpose? Anyone even
remotely educated will look at this and laugh. :)
Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081
veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com
Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD
== The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 9:15:37 1999
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From: "Lanny Baron" <lnb@cybertouch.org>
To: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG,
"'Mark L. Holloway'" <mlholloway@yahoo.com>, kahn@deadbbs.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:16:25 -0400
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Subject: RE: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
Reply-To: lnb@cybertouch.org
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Hello all,
After reading the mail below, I must agree with Alfred with respect
to microsofts marketing. Face it, Gates is the marketing man of
the century (for $$). Although I don't really know if FreeBSD per se
has a clause regarding a guarantee or non-gurantee, the NT
system constantly needs to be rebooted when you install most
software. Which, in a corporate environment, could be a real pain.
As for exchange, I know nothing about it. I just use plain 'ol
sendmail but then I only have 3 stations here at home.
In the business world, I am told by a person who sells networking
for company of about 50 employees, they (the big shots) will ask
there buddies "hey what are you using.." "NT" one will reply the
other.. "novell". So it's more like keeping up with the "Jones" as the
big wigs are into business deals and are for the most part, totally
computer illiterate (yes even more than me..as I can hardly believe).
Also in the real business world, where I can think of a true
example. Someone very close to me works for a major Canadian
financial institution. In a large capacity. They use windows9.x for
managers workstations, Novell for groupwise and maybe some
other applications like shares. But the backbone of the whole place
is AIX on AS400's. So once again, it's a flavor of Unix that is the
Supreme OS.
I certainly agree and understand with companies using ms
products for workstations. If I owned or managed a company that
needed employees to use programs like Office, I would think it is a
lot more common. To train employee's to use FreeBSD
workstations could be very expensive and I would imagine a lot of
people quitting over it. They don't want to learn (the employees ..)
new (ok not so new but new to them) OS's and how to run Xemacs.
Not only that, most companies I have sent resumes to, expect it in
ms .doc format. Why? So they know you at least can use ms word.
But all that led me to start to learn Samba. Samba with FreeBSD
and you pro's know can out preform NT. It's a matter of marketing
on a personal level to get it going.
I wonder if any of you have done it. If so, can you tell me your
success story?
Regards,
Lanny
> On Wed, 26 May 1999, kahn wrote:
>
> >
> >> I'm not trying to start a flame war..I am just curious. If NT is as
> >> horrible of an OS as everyone claims then why do web sites like
> >> Barnes and Noble, Ebay, CDW, and BuyComp (among others) use it?
> >>
> >> I'm not trying to praise NT - just wanting some information
> >> explaining why people should choose one OS over another.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Mark
> >>
> > I would have to say NT is not as bad as I would like it to be. Granted I
> > have to restart it more then any of my UNIX machines, It is still not that
> > bad. I use NT to host my web-based email, beacuse I use exchange as the
> > server. I use FreeBSD as the host for my main pages.
> >
> > Most companys use NT simple because it is expected of them, or just simpler
> > to setup. Even better for the big companies, It seems better to go with a
> > product that has a responsible company behind it. This is not to say that
> > Micro$oft is a responsible company, just responsible for their product. For
> > the systems I have setup here and there, I use what ever the customer wants.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
>
> It doesn't help, and you are perpetuating a total lie, ever notice the
> the "License Agreement" the you always click "yes" to whenever you install
> ANY aplication or are bound to by simply open the shrinkwrap.
>
> it goes somewhat along the lines of:
>
> ---
>
> "We ain't responsible if this stuff falls over and makes you go broke
> cause you loose all your customers, or if the machine catches fire, etc,
> etc, etc..."
>
> Do you agree to this absurdity? (YES) (no)
>
> ---
>
> Microsoft may support you if you pay them _enough_, but purchasing
> MS software in no way insures you against a blue screen of death.
>
> They are not "responsible for their product", they make sure you sign
> off to that whenever you install or open one of their products.
>
> NT is just used because of marketting, NT is used because because
> the lowest commmon demoninator in computing is sliding away from
> us. NT is used because people are just damn lazy and would rather
> be stuck in GUI hell than have the flexibility offered by unix.
>
> rant rant etc..
>
> sorry, I just hate the "well it's a commercial app, the company will
> stand behind it" speel, it just doesn't happen except in IT people's
> fantasies.
>
> How is MS ever going to recoup you for downtime in the real world?
>
> -Alfred
>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 9:28:35 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:28:16 +0100
To: Lanny Baron <lnb@cybertouch.org>
Cc: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG,
"'Mark L. Holloway'" <mlholloway@yahoo.com>, kahn@deadbbs.com
Subject: Re: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
Message-Id: <19990707172816.A630@palmerharvey.co.uk>
References: <000501bea7d6$552cec80$a4f40518@cx273271-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com> <Pine.BSF.3.96.990526224414.9491q-100000@cygnus.rush.net> <199907071615.MAA14859@freedom.cybertouch.org>
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On Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 12:16:25PM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote:
> But the backbone of the whole place
> is AIX on AS400's.
That'll be OS/400, not AIX. It's a whole different (and *very*
proprietary) beast.
--
Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator
In Mountain View did Larry Wall
Sedately launch a quiet plea:
That DOS, the ancient system, shall
On boxes pleasureless to all
Run Perl though lack they C.
--
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 11:34:33 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:40:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>
To: Lanny Baron <lnb@cybertouch.org>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG,
"'Mark L. Holloway'" <mlholloway@yahoo.com>, kahn@deadbbs.com
Subject: RE: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Lanny Baron wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> After reading the mail below, I must agree with Alfred with respect
> to microsofts marketing. Face it, Gates is the marketing man of
> the century (for $$). Although I don't really know if FreeBSD per se
> has a clause regarding a guarantee or non-gurantee, the NT
> system constantly needs to be rebooted when you install most
> software. Which, in a corporate environment, could be a real pain.
It is a realy pain, the amount of downtime forced onto a company
because of NT quickly adds up to thousands and even thousands of
thousands of dollars.
> I certainly agree and understand with companies using ms
> products for workstations. If I owned or managed a company that
> needed employees to use programs like Office, I would think it is a
> lot more common. To train employee's to use FreeBSD
> workstations could be very expensive and I would imagine a lot of
> people quitting over it. They don't want to learn (the employees ..)
> new (ok not so new but new to them) OS's and how to run Xemacs.
> Not only that, most companies I have sent resumes to, expect it in
> ms .doc format. Why? So they know you at least can use ms word.
This argument against unix has always been total bull sh*t,
give someone in marketting a computer with no OS installed
and you're being a fool. Two week later they still won't
have anything installed. When windows is used not only are the
machine pre-configured but then they are crippled severly
so someone "doesn't drag the internet into the recycling bin"
FreeBSD can also be installed, non-crippled ahead of time
for these people, there is no OS to learn, how many people
in accounting really know how to change thier IP address in
95? in NT? in FreeBSD? When does this actually matter?
I admit the unix desktop need a lot more work put into it in terms
of desktop publishing needs before it can offer the richness
available in the MS world. Once some real interapplication
communication framework is done (gnome and kde are already doing
this) you can expect to see some great stuff coming up.
> But all that led me to start to learn Samba. Samba with FreeBSD
> and you pro's know can out preform NT. It's a matter of marketing
> on a personal level to get it going.
>
> I wonder if any of you have done it. If so, can you tell me your
> success story?
>
> Regards,
>
> Lanny
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 7 14:58:39 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James A. Mutter" <jmutter@netwalk.com>
Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com
To: Dominic Mitchell <Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk>
Cc: Lanny Baron <lnb@cybertouch.org>,
Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG,
"'Mark L. Holloway'" <mlholloway@yahoo.com>, kahn@deadbbs.com
Subject: Re: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
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:On Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 12:16:25PM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote:
:> But the backbone of the whole place
:> is AIX on AS400's.
:
:That'll be OS/400, not AIX. It's a whole different (and *very*
:proprietary) beast.
:--
It's really too bad that AIX won't run on an AS/400. I might have
some use them then. :)
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 0:30:30 1999
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From: Ladavac Marino <mladavac@metropolitan.at>
To: "'jmutter@netwalk.com'" <jmutter@netwalk.com>,
Dominic Mitchell <Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk>
Cc: Lanny Baron <lnb@cybertouch.org>,
Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG,
"'Mark L. Holloway'" <mlholloway@yahoo.com>, kahn@deadbbs.com
Subject: RE: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:26:58 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: James A. Mutter [SMTP:jmutter@netwalk.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 12:02 AM
> To: Dominic Mitchell
> Cc: Lanny Baron; Alfred Perlstein; freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG;
> 'Mark L. Holloway'; kahn@deadbbs.com
> Subject: Re: Windows NT and it's use in the business world
>
> :On Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 12:16:25PM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote:
> :> But the backbone of the whole place
> :> is AIX on AS400's.
> :
> :That'll be OS/400, not AIX. It's a whole different (and *very*
> :proprietary) beast.
> :--
>
> It's really too bad that AIX won't run on an AS/400. I might have
> some use them then. :)
[ML] Sure it does. It is even mandatory (AFAIK) as the IP
stack runs under AIX. The same applies to the new releases of OS/390.
In any case, the AS400 web server runs in the AIX subsystem (the AIX
filesystems appear as big datasets in the OS/400 filesystem, and AIX
also has a view of other OS/400 datasets).
/Marino
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 8: 3:21 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:01:37 +0000
Subject: FreeBSD as Webserver (long)
From: "Miguel Gilly" <mgilly@bonsai-studio.com>
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Bonsai Studio: Web Design and More
http://www.bonsai-studio.com
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Hi,
This is a _long_ message about FreeBSD as Webserver, Hardware-Monitoring
support and a Web based configuration of FreeBSD.
first I'd like to tell a little about me:
I'm currently involved in the web design business, and what brought me to
FreeBSD, was the need for a Webserver. First, I considered a solution on
Macintosh with Webten (=Apache), an OS I worked with over the last years.
After playing around with Webten for a while, the whole system crashed. So I
started to look at Linux which is supposed to be stable. I digged at Linux
sites for a few weeks, and installed Suse 6.1 on my PC. I wasn't very
excited, though I know MS-DOS and Windows 386, 3.0, 3.1 etc. and was used to
tweak config files. However, two weeks ago I discovered the FreeBSD site. It
was much more what I was looking for: Serious, professional attitude and a
conservative approach. Built to last and survive in production enviroments.
That's exactly what I was looking for. But after some time, I realized, that
there are some significant things missing in FreeBSD (as well as Linux
btw.): An intelligent clustering software for webservers and support for
Server Hardware Extensions (read: hardware-monitoring, logging and alerting
on Intel Server Boards or IBM Netfinity series for example).
This leads to this mail offering some suggestions. Probably they where
posted before, as the need is obvious, so forgive me if I recite old
requests for the n'th time.
1. Redundant, scaleable remote webserver clustering
The idea behind this is simple. Take two cheap Boxes, colocate them at
different ISP's, and if one server fails (one ISP goes offline, a harddisk
or NIC fails or whatever else happens) the other one takes over. Add more
servers as needed either at the same ISP or over more remote sites to grow
with your needs. Mirroring the content is not such a problem, but load
balancing and health monitoring requires an intelligent software (let's call
it router), that
1. Works on the same machine as the webserver or on a dedicated machine
2. Traces the client to determine it's location and direct him to its
topologically closest available router
3. Keeps the client on the same webserver during the whole session, to allow
e.commerce and SSL connections
4. Keeps a record of load, health and cache-content of all servers within
the cluster as well as the load and health of all other routers (one router
only manages it's own servers, and communicates with all other routers that
manage their own servers. Routers report overall load of the cluster).
5. Scaleable from a simple 2 servery configuration to a worldwide clustered
cluster of hundreds of servers.
Hardware price/performance considerations:
One Enterprise Level Quad Xeon with 2MB caches and RAID costs around 50-70K,
depending on what you buy. 12 P2/450 Boxes with 256 MB RAM each cost around
15K, and offer more CPU performance, which is relevant for dynamic content
and SSL encryption. Add a redundant Fileserver with RAID and ATM (OC-3)
networking for another 15K. What do you get for half the price of an
Enterprise Server? More redundancy and more CPU power. Tradeoff? Heat, power
consumption, required space. If that's not a problem, it's your solution.
That is, if you have the right software. You can buy boxes w/o redundant
power supplies, redundant NIC's and without any disks (LAN boot) or use
small IDE-Flash disks to boot. If one box fails, take it out, fix it, and
put it back in. The point is, you can start with two boxes and scale pretty
well until a certain level (where you will compete with the largest sites of
the world or even beyond), by adding a central fileserver, switch-ports,
network bandwith (OC-12) and more remote sites. All your investements are
protected, from the very beginning with your first server pair.
Or a more simple example: Take two simple AMD K6-3 boxes with SCSI drive and
compare the price to a redundant server with the same performance. You pay
less for the two boxes and have more redundancy. For example, though it
rarely fails, the mainboard isn't redundant on a conventional server, no
matter what price range. Also the software isn't (a software hang cuts the
whole service off). You can twist and turn it as long as you want, two
non-redundant small boxes offer more redundancy than a single redundant
server, probably for less money.
The cluster-software is the core of all. Keeping users on the same machine
during a session and maintaining a cache record and load status of each
machine within a cluster allows an efficient use of the caches, preventing a
popular site to fill all node-caches with its content as it happens with
simple load balancing.
2. Hardware-Monitoring:
Intel Server Boards and servers from IBM, HP, Compaq etc. offer all enhanced
hardware monitoring capabilities. Unfortunately, only few commercial
operating systems are supported. For a server that is in a mission critical
enviroment, hardware monitoring is imperative. FreeBSD would strenghten it's
position as reliable, bulletproof Server OS by supporting those features. It
would also convince more decision makers to switch to FreeBSD, because from
a marketing point of view, it has a lot of weight. Think about spending a
lot of money for a IBM Netfinity server, put FreeBSD on it and you can't use
all those nice things that distinguish it from a simple PC... The same goes
for Intel Server Boards, that notify the administrator when a CPU fan fails
or even when an entire CPU goes down (in SMP systems). But again, no support
in FreeBSD.
It would be enough to focus on one OEM supplier (Intel) and one System
supplier (IBM), instead of supporting all kinds of extensions. Both brands
mentioned above are known to be conservative and offer reliable products for
x86-world standards.
3. Web based configuration for FreeBSD
To attract more non Unix folks (I had to push myself quite a bit to accept
the challenge of Unix, but I finally saw no alternative to a Unix-based
webserver), a GUI based configuration would be a great thing. This is also
a part where I would be willing and able to contribute.
Back to the web business: Today, more complex sites become standard: Dynamic
content, scripting extensions, databases, SSL certificates and custom
logging to name the most common. The typical Virtual Server offering of an
ISP can't fullfill the demands of a professional website. A webdesigner is
very soon at a point where he considers to buy his own webserver to have
full control over his projects and colocates it at an ISP. Now, especially
smaller companies don't have always a Unix savvy team member, so they are
tempted to go with one of those popular gadget operating systems, as they
fear the complexity of Unix and expect high support costs. To make Unix (in
this case FreeBSD) more attractive and also productive to them, a GUI based
administration is the key. I'm thinking about a browser (HTML) based GUI,
that starts shell scripts on the host. It can be easily used over the web to
administrate a server. It would allow Mac users (most webdesigner are) to
stay in their enviroment (Mac Browser) when they access the Unix server,
which gives them a familiar feel and builds up trust to the new system. This
convinces more than any feature list, I guess.
Summary:
What's basically needed for a great webserver package is the webcluster
software, hardware-monitoring support and a web based GUI for FreeBSD.
All this would make a great turnkey solution based on FreeBSD, which could
be offered additionally to the standard distribution.
As webservers there could be a choice of Apache and Roxen (and others). You
put in Floppy and CD, it asks you few things on startup (i.e. which
webserver to install), and there you have a preconfigured, ready to use
webserver with web based administration. You could even put it on a headless
machine, eliminating the need for a keyboard or graphic adapter.
It would attract all kinds of web design companies, ISP's, organizations and
corporations or whoever else is in need of a reliable, redundant, scaleable
and easy to maintain webserver (who's not?).
Similar commercial products are available, but either are they not
scaleable, don't allow SSL/ecommerce and dynamic content or they are in the
highest price ranges (again not scaleable to small configurations).
Offering this above mentioned functionality in a free OS would make it a
real no brainer which system to choose, and in a lively and fast growing
market like the Internet, it would help FreeBSD to gain widespread
popularity in the webserver space, which can be considered as prestigious.
Though the desktop/workstation segment is also interesting, I think this
could be addressed with another specialized package of FreeBSD. Again, a web
based GUI administration as found in certain webservers would help a lot to
break the ice between mainstream users and Unix. HTML is quickly edited and
makes it a really flexible and future proof choice for configurating FreeBSD
(also remotely over any SSL capable browser).
Best wishes
Miguel Gilly
PS: A less controversial and more business friendly mascot wouldn't hurt to
promote FreeBSD (go ahead, hit me ;-) )
--
Bonsai Studio
Web Design & E-Commerce
http://www.bonsai-studio.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 9:54:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 02:54:17 +1000
From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au>
To: Miguel Gilly <mgilly@bonsai-studio.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Webserver (long)
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Miguel, thanks for so much well considered input and suggestions.
Before everyone leaps up shouting "NO!" I'd like to challenge you to
rethink part of it, because with a little shift in orientation it might
be taken more seriously. See what you think.
On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 05:01:37PM +0000, Miguel Gilly wrote:
> 3. Web based configuration for FreeBSD
>
> To attract more non Unix folks (I had to push myself quite a bit to accept
> the challenge of Unix, but I finally saw no alternative to a Unix-based
> webserver), a GUI based configuration would be a great thing. This is also
> a part where I would be willing and able to contribute.
I'm sure such tools would be welcomed, should someone make them
available. But you will find considerable resistance to providing
a soft GUI option if the _reason_ for it is to attract people without
unix skills and/or to let them take on admin responsibilities with
too few skills.
I have been dabbling with Mac OS X Server, and watched the Rhapsody
discussions among Mac people about GUI versus CLI with interest. You
would have seen it all too, I'm sure. There was a strong push for
disabling the CLI by those who claimed everything could be done with a
mouse and that that method would allow someone with little or no
networking knowledge to take full responsibility for a server. I've
heard of intelligent mice but this goes a little too far IMO :-)
Even the Macintosh people were divided, and many of them frustrated the
others by being incapable of imagining that a GUI couldn't do
everything for them. Some of them cannot conceive of the volume and
complexity of knowledge required to run a server properly when they
have all of the options that a Unix platform makes available to mere
humans. Both sides of that debate were extreme, nobody really listened
or offered any slack to the other side, and it got nowhere. Now we have
Mac OS X Server, which is basically a BSD UNIX, and all these poor
bastards clicking frantically on dialog boxes hunting for missing
options that would be just a few keystrokes away if they knew how.
Then look at FreeBSD. We're at the opposite end of the spectrum. From
its roots FreeBSD has always been a high performance system for high
performance geeks by high performance geeks, and it just so happens to
do other jobs (like web hosting) well at the same time. Now some people
are starting to use FreeBSD as their first Unix, but honestly, we don't
have the resources to support them as well as the others do. It is not
the nature of FreeBSD that we actively attract those who need very
basic hand-holding, though they are quite welcome if they turn up of
their own volition knowing what they're in for. For a perspective on
the current starting point requirements (my view), see
http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/slow/ready.html
Some people have suggested that those who are going to be busy learning
how to use the basic tools and so on should play with Linux for a while
first, where they can find a lot of other beginners to learn and
experiment with and people with free time to handhold them. When they
are ready for prime time, they can switch over to FreeBSD. That view
seems rather extreme but it has been well argued. The few (human,
voluntary) resources we have are concentrated in areas like
development, the most essential documentation, and FreeBSD-specific
support.
We have more volunteers hoping to make their mark on improvements to
FreeBSD in a business context than we have volunteers wanting to teach
the fundamental generic skills that most have acquired elsewhere a long
time ago. This contrasts sharply with Linux, for example. Is that a bad
thing? Yes or no, it has made FreeBSD the system it is today.
As someone who came to FreeBSD with few skills and had trouble finding
out what to learn and how, I have sympathy with what you are saying. As
someone who spends far too much time with Macintosh "technical" people
and web designers, what you are saying makes me a little nervous. I
hope you can use my comments to help tailor your arguments to be well
received, because what you're talking about is a large cultural shift.
> A webdesigner is very soon at a point where he considers to buy his
> own webserver to have full control over his projects and colocates it
> at an ISP.
The cost of taking control is having the prerequisite skills.
> Now, especially smaller companies don't have always a Unix savvy team
> member, so they are tempted to go with one of those popular gadget
> operating systems,
And justifiably so. You can do a lot with a MacOS web server, and what
it _allows_ you to do is only a tiny part of what you can do with
something like FreeBSD. In order for busy mouse pushers to achieve what
they do with Macintoshes without shooting themselves in the foot,
choices are restricted. The philosophy encourages anyone to have a go.
A huge amount of development resources go into achieving that aim.
FreeBSD is the opposite. It lays on the ammunition and even provides
maps with irridescent slippery arrows pointing to the magnetised foot
as target. People who have the depth of knowledge and experience to
take full control and responsibility can do so without interference
from little infantilising pictures demanding that a certain step be
taken next.
> as they fear the complexity of Unix and expect
> high support costs.
The complexity and the costs you speak of are real. Some things don't
cost money, but their costs are just as great. FreeBSD allows much
freedom and doesn't cost money, but it's far from free. From a
Macintosh user's perspective, you have to either be prepared to take on
what could seem an enormous learning burden, or employ someone to do
much of the work for you, and often both. The amount of learning
required to set up and run a powerful system like FreeBSD and use all
that it has to offer, would exceed the amount of learning they have
invested in their primary activity. That's why Macintoshes are so
popular, and so different.
When you say things like
> It would allow Mac users (most webdesigner are) to stay in their
> enviroment (Mac Browser) when they access the Unix server, which
> gives them a familiar feel and builds up trust to the new system.
> This convinces more than any feature list, I guess.
you're likely to get a few people nervous... maybe unnecessarily.
Would that trust be false trust? It depends on the person and the
context. If you're talking about "most web designers" they are less
than enfatuated with the technical side, and without a change of
aspirations I can't see them coping with a FreeBSD box alone, whatever
GUI interfaces were provided. Try reading through something like 'man
find' and imagining how you'd put all of that into a dialog box that
anyone could use. Sometimes feeling nervous is a good thing, protecting
us from dangers that are real or causing us to pull up and take
necessary precautions. If we weren't instinctively afraid of snakes,
heights, etc there'd be a lot less of us. Oh, maybe that'd be a good
thing too :-)
You can't make it simple without drastically reducing functionality, or
safe without making it as limited as any beginner's Macintosh
application. For what you're thinking of that might be OK, especially
if there was a commandline person hanging around to do the hard stuff.
But where you're going to have trouble is in convincing your typical
FreeBSD developer type to spend volunteer hours producing something
which has the effect of making FreeBSD do LESS, not more. That's a
really hard one to sell around here.
> Offering this above mentioned functionality in a free OS would make it a
> real no brainer which system to choose, and in a lively and fast growing
> market like the Internet, it would help FreeBSD to gain widespread
> popularity in the webserver space, which can be considered as prestigious.
>
> Though the desktop/workstation segment is also interesting, I think this
> could be addressed with another specialized package of FreeBSD. Again, a web
> based GUI administration as found in certain webservers would help a lot to
> break the ice between mainstream users and Unix. HTML is quickly edited and
> makes it a really flexible and future proof choice for configurating FreeBSD
> (also remotely over any SSL capable browser).
I agree with you to a large extent, but you have to be very careful how
you propose these things if you want people whose orientation is 180
degrees to your own to really understand what you're saying and run
with it. You have to understand their needs and concerns before they
will hear yours clearly.
> PS: A less controversial and more business friendly mascot wouldn't hurt to
> promote FreeBSD (go ahead, hit me ;-) )
[raises barbed tail] Thwack! :-)
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 11:32:53 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:31:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu>
To: Miguel Gilly <mgilly@bonsai-studio.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Webserver (long)
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Hi,
> This is a _long_ message about FreeBSD as Webserver, Hardware-Monitoring
> support and a Web based configuration of FreeBSD.
and this reply will have much snipping :-)
> 1. Redundant, scaleable remote webserver clustering
FreeBSD can certainly do this - finding the info on how-to will be hard
however, especially for someone who only wants to "design" webpages. See
Yahoo.
> [big snip - I have nothing to offer here on point 2]
> 3. Web based configuration for FreeBSD
>
> To attract more non Unix folks (I had to push myself quite a bit to
> accept the challenge of Unix, but I finally saw no alternative to a
> Unix-based webserver), a GUI based configuration would be a great
> thing. This is also a part where I would be willing and able to
> contribute.
What part of FreeBSD do you want GUI-configurable? There are a number of
system administration tools to help configure FreeBSD:
SAM (http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~jardim/Index.html)
freebsd-admin (http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~brian/freebsd-admin/)
webmin
The first 2 are in development (SAM apparently only works on 3.*-RELEASE
or 4.*-RELEASE for some reason - ie, it doesn't work on 3.*-STABLE).
freebsd-admin is being retooled at present and only an older version is
available.
Webmin is an admin program which helps configure a box through the web
server running on that machine - it can also use SSL to keep things
secure. It's in the ports (/usr/ports/sysutils/webmin) and I'm planning
on writing an article on webmin (and the others) for DaemonNews (and it
should be out in the August issue).
If you want a configuration tool for Apache, there is a Tk-based tool, but
it doesn't appear to be in the ports (this would be trivial - it just
needs a patch to point to wish correctly as I recall) - it can be found
at:
http://eunuchs.org/linux/TkApache/
It almost certainly can't be used to twiddle all the best knobs however.
I've only ever played around w/ it a little bit however.
> I'm thinking about a browser (HTML) based GUI, that starts shell
> scripts on the host. It can be easily used over the web to
> administrate a server. It would allow Mac users (most webdesigner are)
> to stay in their enviroment (Mac Browser) when they access the Unix
> server, which gives them a familiar feel and builds up trust to the
> new system. This convinces more than any feature list, I guess.
See webmin above.
Note as Sue said in her reply that the command line offers much greater
flexibility than any "simple" gui ever will.
Brett
***********************************************************
Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu *
brett@daemonnews.org *
*
http://www.daemonnews.org/ *
***********************************************************
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 11:32:56 1999
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 13: 1:44 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:58:00 -0600
From: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>
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Subject: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
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Chip Turner has done some basic groundwork on benching mod_perl vs.
other methodologies. He claims that FBSD is 10% faster than That Other
Unix-Like OS, even as he admits that his company specializes in That
Other One...
http://perl.pattern.net/bench
--
Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!"
Wilde Media
PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356
Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Wilde-Media.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 13: 9:27 1999
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From: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>
To: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Donald Wilde wrote:
> http://perl.pattern.net/bench
Respectfully, this is full of shit.
There was a discussion on #FreeBSD I believe about this, and the major
problems were:
(1) Client and server being run on the same machine
(2) Testing through the loopback device
(3) Apples and oranges.
where one code used three functions to print three lines
in other code it was done with ("foo\nbar\nbaz\n") and
one function, IIRC.
Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>, I believe had more on this.
- bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp -
- ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org -
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 13:19:17 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:15:03 -0600
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Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
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Bill Fumerola wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Donald Wilde wrote:
>
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench
>
[opinion of smell omitted] :-)
> (1) Client and server being run on the same machine
> (2) Testing through the loopback device
> (3) Apples and oranges.
>
I wasn't concerned with his methodology, Bill, although I noticed the
three points you make in a cursory glance. I would suspect it's #1
that's the reason FBSD works better. My only reason for the cross-post
is that FreeBSD came out better. If we recall the vanished gartner group
report, they came out with a more than 15% improvement for FreeBSD.
--
Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!"
Wilde Media
PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356
Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Wilde-Media.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 13:32:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:31:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
In-reply-to: <378506C7.BB772E44@thuntek.net>
To: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>
Cc: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>,
freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hold up a sec. FreeBSD did NOT perform as well. Check the stats again.
The only things FreeBSD beat the other OS in was serving STATIC pages (and
mod_perl handler stuff). The "crucial" tests (dynamic content via cgi's)
showed the other OS to edge out our beloved FreeBSD.
SB
On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Donald Wilde wrote:
> I wasn't concerned with his methodology, Bill, although I noticed the
> three points you make in a cursory glance. I would suspect it's #1
> that's the reason FBSD works better. My only reason for the cross-post
> is that FreeBSD came out better. If we recall the vanished gartner group
> report, they came out with a more than 15% improvement for FreeBSD.
>
> --
> Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!"
> Wilde Media
> PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356
> Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Wilde-Media.com
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 13:37:35 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:24:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907081629200.98016-100000@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Seth wrote:
> Hold up a sec. FreeBSD did NOT perform as well. Check the stats again.
> The only things FreeBSD beat the other OS in was serving STATIC pages (and
> mod_perl handler stuff). The "crucial" tests (dynamic content via cgi's)
> showed the other OS to edge out our beloved FreeBSD.
>
> On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Donald Wilde wrote:
>
> > I wasn't concerned with his methodology, Bill, although I noticed the
> > three points you make in a cursory glance. I would suspect it's #1
> > that's the reason FBSD works better. My only reason for the cross-post
> > is that FreeBSD came out better. If we recall the vanished gartner group
> > report, they came out with a more than 15% improvement for FreeBSD.
I'd also like to add that we'd cry foul as loud as anyone if these
"benchmarks" showed any other OS beating us. (I am, I guess)
Let's not be hypocritical and shout from the tops of rooftops any
benchmark that makes us look better unless we're really sure the benchmark
is legit.
- bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp -
- ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org -
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 14:59:46 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:56:00 -0600
From: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>
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To: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>
Cc: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
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Bill Fumerola wrote:
> Let's not be hypocritical and shout from the tops of rooftops any
> benchmark that makes us look better unless we're really sure the benchmark
> is legit.
>
Very good point, Bill. U 2, Seth. I asked Chip to do it again with
cleaner code and two systems, we'll see if he does.
--
Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!"
Wilde Media
PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356
Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Wilde-Media.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 16:33:12 1999
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From: Ask Bjoern Hansen <ask@valueclick.com>
To: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Cc: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>,
Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907081629200.98016-100000@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
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tOn Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Seth wrote:
...
> mod_perl handler stuff). The "crucial" tests (dynamic content via cgi's)
> showed the other OS to edge out our beloved FreeBSD.
Nah, get real. If you're concerned about performance, cgi will be your
last option.
:-)
- ask (doing almost all of his hits with apache/mod_perl on FreeBSD)
--
ask bjoern hansen - <http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/>
more than 14M impressions per day, <http://valueclick.com>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 18: 7:25 1999
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:25:04 +0900
From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
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To: Miguel Gilly <mgilly@bonsai-studio.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Webserver (long)
References: <199907081506.PAA09942@luna.pingnet.ch>
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Miguel Gilly wrote:
>
> PS: A less controversial and more business friendly mascot wouldn't hurt to
> promote FreeBSD (go ahead, hit me ;-) )
<hit>
--
Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org
Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works
of Shakespeare.
Win 98 source code? Eight monkeys, five minutes.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 8 22:41: 1 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 23:40:43 -0600
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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To: Miguel Gilly <mgilly@bonsai-studio.com>
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Webserver (long)
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Miguel Gilly wrote:
>
> This is a _long_ message about FreeBSD as Webserver, Hardware-Monitoring
> support and a Web based configuration of FreeBSD.
Hi Miguel. I'm going to toss in a few comments here, but before I do,
you should go read my "opening remarks", prepared well in advance of
your message, at:
http://www.daemonnews.org/199907/d-advocate.html
This may enlighten you a bit as to the current state of "gui admin" tools
for FreeBSD. This is not to say that none exist, but may give you some
insight as to why the pickings are somewhat slim.
Let me add that what Sue has written on this topic covered the state of
the art pretty well. Administering a UNIX system is much more complex
than administering a MacOS system because MacOS was designed to drive
a small computer used by "the rest of us" while UNIX was designed by
alpha geeks to serve the needs of alpha geeks. Sticking a GUI on top
of FreeBSD isn't going to make FreeBSD easier to administer, it's just
going to make the 3 or 4 tasks the GUI is actually capable of performing
a little less intimidating to GUI users. The number and variety of tasks
require to keep a UNIX system humming along is pretty much a constant
for any given UNIX system, and GUI-fying *all* of those tasks is a
gargantuan undertaking that even Computer Associates won't completely
bite off.
That said, you should certainly take a look at Cybernet NetMAX, which
may just provide what you're looking for. http://www.netmax.com/
As an aside, why would a fledgling web designer determined to build
his or her own hosting service NOT want to partner with a good geek?
Geeks are people too, whether web designers think so or not, and have
many valuable traits to bring to a partnership, like being willing
to trade long hours of babysitting web servers in return for some
killer bandwidth. ;^)
> 1. Redundant, scaleable remote webserver clustering
Got that one nailed, too. Eddieware provides exactly this service, and
more. Let's take it straight from the horses mouth:
Eddie is a 100% software solution written primarily in the functional
programming language Erlang (www.erlang.org) and is available for
Solaris, Linux and FreeBSD, with Windows NT to come soon.
Eddie provides advanced automatic traffic management and configuration
of geographically distributed server sites, consisting of one or more
Local Area Networks.
See http://wwweddie.serc.rmit.edu.au/what.html for a full discussion of
what Eddieware is, and http://www.eddieware.org/ in general for the full
skinny. Eddieware is distributed under the Erlang Public License, which
allows you royalty-free distribution rights and the ability to combine
Eddieware into larger works.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 9 0:30: 7 1999
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To: Ask Bjoern Hansen <ask@valueclick.com>
Cc: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>,
Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>,
Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
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Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
>
> tOn Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Seth wrote:
>
> ...
> > mod_perl handler stuff). The "crucial" tests (dynamic content via cgi's)
> > showed the other OS to edge out our beloved FreeBSD.
>
> Nah, get real. If you're concerned about performance, cgi will be your
> last option.
Err... Since cgi are widely used, you might want to consider that
many people consider *CGI PERFOMANCE* to be very important. It's not
a question of how to extract most performance out of it, but how
much performance the system will give to what you actually have to
serve.
--
Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org
Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works
of Shakespeare.
Win 98 source code? Eight monkeys, five minutes.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 9 0:30:12 1999
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:02:34 +0900
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To: dwilde1@thuntek.net
Cc: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>,
freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
References: <Pine.HPP.3.96.990708115318.14681B-100000@hp9000.chc-chimes.com> <378506C7.BB772E44@thuntek.net>
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Donald Wilde wrote:
>
> I wasn't concerned with his methodology, Bill, although I noticed the
> three points you make in a cursory glance. I would suspect it's #1
> that's the reason FBSD works better. My only reason for the cross-post
> is that FreeBSD came out better. If we recall the vanished gartner group
> report, they came out with a more than 15% improvement for FreeBSD.
It came better for static pages, lost in dynamic ones. Anyway, that
benchmark ain't worth the bandwidth spent downloading the results.
At the very least, we don't know how Apache was compiled in each
one. It might be just a matter of compiler optimization... We also
don't see how each machine was set up/tuned, so you can just imagine
what difference would a standard FreeBSD vs a standard Linux mount
for the filesystem would do to performance... Really, a friend of
mine, with whom I have friendly flame wars on Linux vs BSD, sent
that to me, and I just had to blast the hell out of him for wasting
my time with it.
--
Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org
Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works
of Shakespeare.
Win 98 source code? Eight monkeys, five minutes.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 9 7:21:46 1999
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:19:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Seth <seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org>
Subject: Re: Benchmarking web apps on Apache
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9907081631540.9761-100000@impatience.valueclick.com>
To: Ask Bjoern Hansen <ask@valueclick.com>
Cc: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>,
Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
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Regardless, the performance data are not in our favor.
SB
On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
> tOn Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Seth wrote:
>
> ...
> > mod_perl handler stuff). The "crucial" tests (dynamic content via cgi's)
> > showed the other OS to edge out our beloved FreeBSD.
>
> Nah, get real. If you're concerned about performance, cgi will be your
> last option.
>
> :-)
>
> - ask (doing almost all of his hits with apache/mod_perl on FreeBSD)
>
> --
> ask bjoern hansen - <http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/>
> more than 14M impressions per day, <http://valueclick.com>
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
>
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Message-Id: <37865D49.1F23D464@softweyr.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:36:25 -0600
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" <pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Embed Together: The Case For BSD In Network Appliances
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"Pedro F. Giffuni" wrote:
>
> I nice article, mentioning PicoBSD !
>
> http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9906of2.shtml
Very nice. All the arguments he makes for e/BSD apply equally well to
picoBSD of course.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com
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