From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 1:51:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C887D14EA0 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 6462 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 1999 08:51:37 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 6438 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 1999 08:51:36 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 08:51:36 -0000 Message-ID: <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:51:35 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > Summoner wrote: >> >> John Armstrong wrote: >>> Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login >>> shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to >>> sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. >> >> Why would sh be less likely to get screwed up? Because it's hardly >> ever used? > > Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > > Either sh or csh, because these are linked static and available on > /bin, so they can be used in single-user mode. Static linked means that the compiled binary has the neccessary (runtime?) libraries compiled into it, instead of using shared libraries on the system? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 1:57:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA220150FC for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA16567; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:57:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:56:48 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Summoner wrote: > > Static linked means that the compiled binary has the neccessary > (runtime?) libraries compiled into it, instead of using shared > libraries on the system? Correct. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 4:19:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rebel.net.au (rebel.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7110814E90 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkenn@rebel.net.au) Received: from 203.20.69.80 (dialup-10.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.80]) by rebel.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA19520 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:48:27 +0930 Received: (qmail 62307 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 11:07:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (kkenn@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 11:07:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:37:13 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway Reply-To: kkenn@rebel.net.au To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Summoner , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: <80243.932882416@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 24 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > > You know, there should be some kind of fine levied on those > who use more than, say, 7 characters in any acronym. :) The scary thing is I knew what it stands for :-) Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 4:47:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BEA3150AF for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 20585 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 1999 11:47:37 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 20571 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 1999 11:47:36 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 11:47:36 -0000 Message-ID: <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:47:36 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > Summoner wrote: >> >> Static linked means that the compiled binary has the neccessary >> (runtime?) libraries compiled into it, instead of using shared >> libraries on the system? > > Correct. Mama always done told me I was one of the sharper knives in the drawer. :-) If I make a static linked version of bash, would it no longer be a Bad Thing(tm) to use it for root's shell, or should I just learn to use csh like a good little unixhead? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 7:36:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EF414EE7 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA02086; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:34:47 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379B2071.18BEE79E@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:34:25 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Summoner wrote: > > If I make a static linked version of bash, would it no longer be a > Bad Thing(tm) to use it for root's shell, or should I just learn to > use csh like a good little unixhead? Make a static version of bash, stuff it in /bin, and you should be ok. As for csh, forget it. It's an evil shell. There are a lot of good reasons not to use it, and no good reason to use it, no matter what the csh fanatics tell you. They have been brainwashed. Now, good old bourne shell, specially the enhanced version FreeBSD have, that's another matter entirely... :-) Don't fret about shell. If you boot single user, you'll be asked what shell to use, with a default of /bin/sh (see, even the system knows sh is better than csh!). So you can assign your dynamic-linked /usr/local/bin/bash as your default shell and be done with it. You'll always be allowed to go to /bin/sh in case of emergency. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 8:30:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 171BB14CCD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 23444 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 1999 15:30:55 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 23381 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 1999 15:30:53 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 15:30:53 -0000 Message-ID: <379B2DAB.A0A74712@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:30:51 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kkenn@rebel.net.au Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Daniel C. Sobral" , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sat, 24 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! >> >> You know, there should be some kind of fine levied on those >> who use more than, say, 7 characters in any acronym. :) > > The scary thing is I knew what it stands for :-) I got parts of it, I think. Mind enlightening the rest of us (or at least me)? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 8:35:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CCA14CCD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id AAA13344; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:32:57 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379B2E10.62F6A96A@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:32:32 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <379B2DAB.A0A74712@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Summoner wrote: > > >>> Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > > I got parts of it, I think. Mind enlightening the rest of us (or at > least me)? Sigh... 10z3r5! Falling of the chair, rolling on the floor, laughing out loud my ass off. Obviously. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 8:41:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rebel.net.au (rebel.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2960414FA2 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkenn@rebel.net.au) Received: from 203.20.69.73 (dialup-3.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.73]) by rebel.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA22924 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:09:16 +0930 Received: (qmail 91697 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 15:38:48 -0000 Received: from localhost (kkenn@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 15:38:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:08:47 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway Reply-To: kkenn@rebel.net.au To: Summoner Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Daniel C. Sobral" , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: <379B2DAB.A0A74712@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 25 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Sat, 24 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >>> Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > >> > >> You know, there should be some kind of fine levied on those > >> who use more than, say, 7 characters in any acronym. :) > > > > The scary thing is I knew what it stands for :-) > > I got parts of it, I think. Mind enlightening the rest of us (or at > least me)? I make it as: "Falling Off The Chair, Rolling On The Floor, Laughing Out Loud, My Arse Off" (grammatical mistake notwithstanding). Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 10:30:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FADB151FD for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.3]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAAA37; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:29:59 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14994; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:27:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:27:41 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Summoner , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990725192741.B14954@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> <379B2071.18BEE79E@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <379B2071.18BEE79E@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Sun, Jul 25, 1999 at 11:34:25PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Daniel C. Sobral (dcs@newsguy.com) [990725 17:42]: > Summoner wrote: > > > > If I make a static linked version of bash, would it no longer be a > > Bad Thing(tm) to use it for root's shell, or should I just learn to > > use csh like a good little unixhead? > > Make a static version of bash, stuff it in /bin, and you should be > ok. *mutters something about /etc/shells* -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 14: 0:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93D9014D65 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 27577 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 1999 21:00:04 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 27558 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 1999 21:00:04 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 21:00:04 -0000 Message-ID: <379B7AD2.CA01245F@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:00:02 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> <379B2071.18BEE79E@newsguy.com> <19990725192741.B14954@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > * Daniel C. Sobral (dcs@newsguy.com) [990725 17:42]: >> Summoner wrote: >>> >>> If I make a static linked version of bash, would it no longer be a >>> Bad Thing(tm) to use it for root's shell, or should I just learn to >>> use csh like a good little unixhead? >> >> Make a static version of bash, stuff it in /bin, and you should be >> ok. > > *mutters something about /etc/shells* *has /bin/bash and /usr/local/bin/bash in his /etc/shells file* :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 14: 4:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 808E714D65 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 29088 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 1999 21:03:38 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 29074 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 1999 21:03:37 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 21:03:37 -0000 Message-ID: <379B7BA8.9AA831AE@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:03:36 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <379B2DAB.A0A74712@uswest.net> <379B2E10.62F6A96A@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > Summoner wrote: > > > > >>> Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > > > > I got parts of it, I think. Mind enlightening the rest of us (or at > > least me)? > > Sigh... 10z3r5! > > Falling of the chair, rolling on the floor, laughing out loud my ass > off. Obviously. Tsk *rolls eyes and gives you three snaps (in Z formation no less)* Okay, what-eva, mister man. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 16:14:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3E114D12 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:14:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA13555; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:40:19 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA57070; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:40:03 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:40:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Summoner Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Which root shell? (was: What to tell to Linux-centric people?!) Message-ID: <19990726084001.I51019@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Sun, Jul 25, 1999 at 04:47:36AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 25 July 1999 at 4:47:36 -0700, Summoner wrote: > "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: >> Summoner wrote: >>> >>> Static linked means that the compiled binary has the neccessary >>> (runtime?) libraries compiled into it, instead of using shared >>> libraries on the system? >> >> Correct. > > Mama always done told me I was one of the sharper knives in the > drawer. :-) > > If I make a static linked version of bash, would it no longer be a > Bad Thing(tm) to use it for root's shell, With the exception of single user mode, you don't need to do this. You can use sh in single-user mode and bash the rest of the time. A well-kept secret is that /bin/sh has Emacs-style command line editing, but you need to enable it with 'set -o emacs'. It seems to have vi style editing too. > or should I just learn to use csh like a good little unixhead? No. csh has no redeeming virtues. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 17: 8:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from kolster.fi (mailserver.kolster.fi [193.94.92.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6797A14CBA for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pooka@kolster.fi) Received: (from pooka@localhost) by kolster.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07726; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:06:30 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:06:28 +0300 From: Antti Kantee To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726030628.C9256@babylon5.kolster.fi> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeremy Shaffner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 01:12:34PM -0500 X-TJ: OHI ON! Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri Jul 23 1999 at 13:12:34 -0500, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? Dunno, but Linux toiletpaper would sure sound ... hmmh ... appealing. (err, sorry ;) -- "Never underestimate the power of the Lite side of the \Source/" Antti Kantee / NetBSD \ 1973 <- draken \ / o / http://www.netbsd.org \ platters -> 1999 \ / | ______________/ Free Multiplatform UN*X \___________________\/__ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 17:38:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFABA14D3E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40337>; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:19:02 +1000 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:37:43 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: subscribe To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Jul26.101902est.40337@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe advocacy@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 18:25:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191AB14FD8 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA14044; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:53:51 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA57622; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:53:47 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:53:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Antti Kantee Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Designed for Windows 98 (was: What to tell to Linux-centric people?!) Message-ID: <19990726105347.M51019@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990726030628.C9256@babylon5.kolster.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990726030628.C9256@babylon5.kolster.fi>; from Antti Kantee on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 03:06:28AM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 3:06:28 +0300, Antti Kantee wrote: > On Fri Jul 23 1999 at 13:12:34 -0500, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > >> P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? > > Dunno, but Linux toiletpaper would sure sound ... hmmh ... appealing. > (err, sorry ;) This reminds me of a mistake I made a couple of months ago. I got a new laptop with a sticker on it saying "Designed for Windows 98%". I was at USENIX at the time, and without thinking I took it off and stuck it on a nearby waste paper basket. Now I wish that I had kept it: I'd much rather have it on *my* waste paper basket. Does anybody have one left over? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 18:54:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A2614D95 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-156.s29.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.156]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22902; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907260151.VAA22902@smtp2.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990724131017.O84734@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:51:16 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jul-99 Greg Lehey wrote: > That's inadequate for people coming from Linux. We know roughly what > they want; why not take the needles out of the haystack? > > For the rest of you: in my message to Jordan, I specifically mentioned > bash and colorls. What other items might interest a Linuxhead? Right now there's a group on freebsd-doc who are putting together a book/tutorial on coming from Linux to FreeBSD. I think that this stuff should go there and not in /stand/sysinstall. Do you also want to have it install qvwm or KDE if you are coming from '95 or put in aliases for del, dir, and copy if you are coming from DOS? These are the types of customizations that users need to learn how to do. If we hold their hand too much then they won't have to learn how to customize things. I don't think that is the kind of userbase we won't right now. > Greg --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 19:12:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D63214C17 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Received: from crash (eric@[208.13.245.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA20286 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:12:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Message-ID: <02d501bed70c$2f5a2990$c1f50dd0@cfpower.com> Reply-To: "Eric A. Griff" From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Subject: Eww, Linux w/New Amigas. Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:11:33 -0400 Organization: CFPower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yuck, couldn't I just use my old AmigaDOS 1.3 disks? http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,38973,00.html?st.ne.ni.rel Eric A. Griff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 19:44:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6439814C1C for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-156.s29.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.156]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA23584; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907260243.WAA23584@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80139.932880652@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:43:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Summoner , Bill Swingle , "Daniel C. Sobral" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Jul-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Let me state, for the record, that I hate all of you. Why didn't >> anyone told me there would be t-shirts featuring her??? > > Don't sweat it - we're strongly considering bringing her back > for another, generally available, T-shirt. :0 I'll buy it, since I started this whole thread. The sooner the better though. :-) > -Jordan --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 23:26:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0E1152CB for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Received: from crash (eric@[208.13.245.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA20840 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:24:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Message-ID: <000d01bed72f$68923680$c1f50dd0@cfpower.com> Reply-To: "Eric A. Griff" From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Subject: Get exposure in GNU's home area =) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:23:41 -0400 Organization: CFPower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All, Through daily doings I have run into a few people in the "GNU" home area, and have been there a couple of times this year. I also found a good IT search place, for refined searches from Natural Intelligence (http://www.natural.com), at http://www.intelligence.com/ . To my dismay, there were many linux links. And just a Company and Technology link (internal) about FreeBSD. Natural is based out of Cambridge, MA, and is Allied with companies such as Allaire Corporation. This is a site that is maintained by a human (John Dhabolt). It'd be nice to see much more FreeBSD there. I use that site daily, due to it's daily emails that let me keep up on things in about 20 minutes in the morning. (7 brief newsletters with useful links). Incidentally, Natural has been playing with linux Since they are an Allaire Strategic Partner, and thinking the upcoming Linux Version of ColdFusion. I've plugged a bit at allaire re: coldfusion, though one person is far from enough.. With the recent advent of a newbie linux junkie around the office here talking "Maybe you should take a more open look at linux", I have, and RedHat 6.0 scares me.. So, expect more from me here in the future =) Eric A. Griff, setjmp Software Your source for custom Software Solutions. 181 Genesee Street Suite 504 Utica, NY 13501 Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 25 23:56:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB5114F02 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[208.13.245.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA20876; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:54:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <006901bed733$9f9727e0$c1f50dd0@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: "Jeremy Allaire" Subject: What would it take, for another version... Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:53:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeremy, You don't know me, though I'd like to get to know you.. I have been working with Unix since about 1987 (System V). The particular variety I've chose, and after several experimentations with others (such as Linux), have always stuck with FreeBSD (since about 1995). Some of the reasons include Stability, Reliability, and the ability to find things anywhere in the system (at times with no prior knowledge of the particular part of the system at hand, in an emergency situation), and accomplished what I needed in a short time. I have been using it from Version 2.1.5 and still at 3.2-STABLE. When the need to run linux binaries occurs, FreeBSD runs many of them, and from experience a while back, faster. Though that may have changed, since that factor is dependant on optimizations in both the Linux, and FreeBSD camps, and is up to revision at any release point from either =) Other things include fast development with the hierarchy in the FreeBSD system. Most things are very central, and easily found with apropos, and find. Onto the point, I have a question for you. "What would it take to get you interested in considering a ColdFusion Version for FreeBSD?" Key words are "interested" and "considering"... I'm not asking for any commitment, other than if you let me know what, that if it can be provided, you'll give it a look. Thank you very much, Eric A. Griff (EFNET setjmp, ICQ 28146852) setjmp Software Your source for custom Software Solutions. 181 Genesee Street Suite 504 Utica, NY 13501 Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 0:42:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832EF14EB0 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:42:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:40:45 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: 'John Armstrong' Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:40:44 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I agree. color ls is totally lame and I think you can get it running > on freebsd but..why? I guess I must be the old one, not the OS... To > each their own, but in my opinion a new install should never default > to 'bells and whistles' mode as it assumes to much on the part of the > end user hardware configs. It in _NOT_ a "too much assumption on end user hardware configs" to assume it has a color-able terminal, in order to see "ls-color" running! And... it's too bad FreeBSD community is _that_ conservative and doesn't make a 5-minute change in installation's _DEFAULTS_ that could attract 50% of Linux community to FreeBSD! I saw that stupid "ls-NONcolour" default on RedHat3.0.3 [I was coming from Slackware 3.0 at the time] and I fixed it in 3 minutes, but I'm still wondering: why should 90% of users being _forced_ to do this? Or... are you assuming that a Hercules card is the most usual today? Or an antique VT unable to display colour? I am too a little "old" in thoughts, so I NEVER USE MIDNIGHT COMMANDER! Should we also suppose that the fact the user MAY want to install X is a "too much assumption"? So, whay don't we take out this from the installation procedure, and force the user to search for himself/herself for that? Regards, Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 0:53:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5827D14C4B for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:50:25 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: 'Seth' Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:50:24 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Because the application list is already on any modern FreeBSD system if > you've installed the ports collection. Ports is one of the FreeBSD's Yeah, but this is NOT what I meant! Imagine that thousands of people are making, for their own use or not, thousands of free [well, GPLed] Linux apps. Why should I use Yahoo! to find that it *might* be on that world some app which could help me? Instead... I can go to linuxapps.com, take the source from there, and compile it either for Linux, either for FreeBSD! However... :-( > > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... > > > > Have you checked http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ammunition/images.html? Yes, but things could me MUCH better! I just want the _regular_ daemon, at a greater size! Not the "new" daemons! The daemon from cdrom's cover, that is. And I saw in an article, the same BSD daemon showing a "Will work for free" sticker, but it was ways too small! Regards, Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 0:55:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013F114C07 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:55:42 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:55:41 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The average Linux user is as un/misinformed about Unix as the average > Windows user is about DOS. They think XFree86 is a Linux > program. They > think GNOME is a Linux program. They think SAMBA is a Linux program. > They think xmms (formerlly x11amp) is a Linux program. Etc... That IS a good answer! Thx! > Sure..someone could start http://www.freebsdapps.com, but > what would that > accomplish? You'd have the same software, and you would only be > furthering the myth that "Linux software" is only for Linux, > and "FreeBSD > software" is only for FreeBSD. Well, but this way, people will *still* believe of those apps that they're Linux-only! :-( > You're right, I'll switch my servers over to > Linux right away. > > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? Now, THAT is malicious!! The Linux penguin is all over, in all sizes, and the *BSD community isn't able to spread their own daemon! This IS a shame! Cheers, Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 1:24: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (pppc1-22.eisa.net.au [203.166.251.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1B715159 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:23:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08112; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:22:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:22:30 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726182230.B7990@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 at 10:55:41 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > The average Linux user is as un/misinformed about Unix as the > > average Windows user is about DOS. They think XFree86 is a Linux > > program. They think GNOME is a Linux program. They think SAMBA > > is a Linux program. They think xmms (formerlly x11amp) is a Linux > > program. Etc... > > That IS a good answer! Thx! > > > Sure..someone could start http://www.freebsdapps.com, but what > > would that accomplish? You'd have the same software, and you > > would only be furthering the myth that "Linux software" is only > > for Linux, and "FreeBSD software" is only for FreeBSD. > > Well, but this way, people will *still* believe of those apps that > they're Linux-only! :-( As you were told before, they only need to look at http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ . Honestly, how hard is that? Besides, if they're not smart enough to figure out the stuff isn't Linux only, maybe those users should be sticking with Linux? > > You're right, I'll switch my servers over to Linux right away. > > > > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? > > Now, THAT is malicious!! The Linux penguin is all over, in all > sizes, and the *BSD community isn't able to spread their own daemon! > This IS a shame! Look, if you're not happy with what's available, make some yourself instead of bitching and expecting other people to do it. You were shown where to find images, but they're still not good enough.. bitching and moaning about it isn't solving anything or making other images that don't exist magically appear. It's only going to end up getting on everyone's nerves (especially people who *do* contribute), and get you a bunch hostile responses. -- - Jim Mock - jim@blues.ghis.net - systems administrator - ghis.NET - - work: http://www.ghis.net/ - personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ - - FreeBSD 'zine: http://www.freebsdzine.org/ - jim@freebsdzine.org - - FreeBSD: http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ - jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 1:30:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from waveconcepts.com (waveconcepts.com [207.126.116.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71314152C4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from siberian@siberian.org) Received: from [216.112.76.84] (gamera.siberian.org [216.112.76.84] (may be forged)) by waveconcepts.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA06744 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: siberian@207.126.116.40 (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:31:54 -0700 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: John Armstrong Subject: Search engine on website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Am I the only one who is pretty annoyed at the online search engine at www.freebsd.org? It works great but it returns URL's rather then the document titles that it is searching. This makes it especially hard for newbies to find the data they are looking for as they have to page through tons of results to syphon out the data they want. Granted, I have learned a lot from such filtering sessions but still... ;) So the question is : 1) Is there a reason it is like this? 2) If the reason is 'no one has gotten around to it' how can I help? I am not sure what engine is being used but swish works wonders, is free and does an admirable job. Just some thoughts. John- ------------------------------------------------------------------ The first electric toothbrush was developed and tested on dogs. There reportedly enjoyed it. -Uncle John's Fourth Bathroom Reader To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 1:40: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE48152D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:39:23 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'jim@blues.ghis.net'" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:39:21 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > You're right, I'll switch my servers over to Linux right away. > > > > > > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? > > > > Now, THAT is malicious!! The Linux penguin is all over, in all > > sizes, and the *BSD community isn't able to spread their own daemon! > > This IS a shame! > > Look, if you're not happy with what's available, make some yourself > instead of bitching and expecting other people to do it. You were > shown where to find images, but they're still not good enough.. > bitching and moaning about it isn't solving anything or making other > images that don't exist magically appear. It's only going to end up > getting on everyone's nerves (especially people who *do* contribute), > and get you a bunch hostile responses. With *that* kind of approaching people and issues, you should NOT be surprised by the fact that FreeBSD has an unappropriatedly low audience, despite its better stability and performance, compared with Linux! OK, Linux is used also by ... unconscious people, just because they can hack in it and play Doom [I never played Doom!]. Some are also attracted by the hype [that's why I feel RedHat is beginning to look like Micro$oft]. Good things are for people able to recognbize and appreciate this, so it isn't a minus the fact that FreeBSD is a kinda "private old English club :-)", not that open to all unnecessary changes and not wanting to satisfy all tastes. That's why I tend to recommend FreeBSD as THE "rock solid" OS to any person, despite the fact that I have a much greater knowledge of Linux [that stands for myself :-(]. Now, when I see that FreeBSD community is made by such _proud_ people as you are [and remember: I was trying to became a FreeBSD advocate, even if I'm coming from Linux! so we weren't in any "religious" war!], I may change my mind. Maybe FreeBSD is not the best choice. Maybe other Unix-like Oses [primarily, Linux, I don't know which distribution, but let's say Linux for now] should take from FreeBSD all the good stuff andf that's all! I hate GPL, but due to the fact that it also exist a LGPL for the libraries, writing code from scratch and *dynamically* linking them with gnu libs make easy to keep private your sources, hence developping commercial apps for Linux. Why losing so much time for persuading people to switch to FreeBSD if the FreeBSD community doesn't want this? Let them enjoy this marvelous OS just for themelves, in the club... Regards, Radu-Cristian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 1:48: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (pppc1-22.eisa.net.au [203.166.251.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC831528E for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08794; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:47:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:47:27 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726184727.A8664@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 at 10:40:44 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > I agree. color ls is totally lame and I think you can get it > > running on freebsd but..why? I guess I must be the old one, not > > the OS... To each their own, but in my opinion a new install > > should never default to 'bells and whistles' mode as it assumes to > > much on the part of the end user hardware configs. > > It is _NOT_ a "too much assumption on end user hardware configs" to > assume it has a color-able terminal, in order to see "ls-color" > running! > > And... it's too bad FreeBSD community is _that_ conservative and > doesn't make a 5-minute change in installation's _DEFAULTS_ that > could attract 50% of Linux community to FreeBSD! Ok, this is just total crap. First of all, doing it your way forces *everyone* to use it. Right now, nothing is stopping users from installing it if they want it.. it doesn't take a whole hell of alot of effort to install a port. As for the second part, if people are gonna switch from Linux for the sake of color ls, then they've got problems, not to mention if that's the only reason why they'd switch, Linux can have 'em.. we don't want 'em. Making such a statement does nothing but make you look like an ass. > I saw that stupid "ls-NONcolour" default on RedHat3.0.3 [I was > coming from Slackware 3.0 at the time] and I fixed it in 3 minutes, > but I'm still wondering: why should 90% of users being _forced_ to > do this? How are they being forced? No one is *making* them use color ls. Is it our fault they like it? Oh, wait, I think I remember seeing a picture of jkh at a 'Geeks with Guns' meeting holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to use a non-color ls. Shock horror. You're right, we should do everything the Linux way, we'd be much better off. > Or... are you assuming that a Hercules card is the most usual today? > Or an antique VT unable to display colour? No, we're assuming people are smart enough to figure out permissions by looking at them instead of needing to see them in a different color. > I am too a little "old" in thoughts, so I NEVER USE MIDNIGHT > COMMANDER! > > Should we also suppose that the fact the user MAY want to install X > is a "too much assumption"? So, whay don't we take out this from the > installation procedure, and force the user to search for > himself/herself for that? Give it up, you're just digging your hole deeper. At least use a comparison that's even a *little reasonable. -- - Jim Mock - jim@blues.ghis.net - systems administrator - ghis.NET - - work: http://www.ghis.net/ - personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ - - FreeBSD 'zine: http://www.freebsdzine.org/ - jim@freebsdzine.org - - FreeBSD: http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ - jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2: 5:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF56D152DF for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:04:50 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDVLN; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:04:50 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 118ggc-000FN3-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:04:42 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:04:42 +0100 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Summoner , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which root shell? (was: What to tell to Linux-centric people?!) Message-Id: <19990726100442.A54684@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> <379AD017.F651CC0E@uswest.net> <379AD150.E2110AEA@newsguy.com> <379AF958.41E15B97@uswest.net> <19990726084001.I51019@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <19990726084001.I51019@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 08:40:02AM +0930 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 08:40:02AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > With the exception of single user mode, you don't need to do this. > You can use sh in single-user mode and bash the rest of the time. A > well-kept secret is that /bin/sh has Emacs-style command line editing, > but you need to enable it with 'set -o emacs'. It seems to have vi > style editing too. # set -E For the truly lazy... -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:11:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (pppc1-22.eisa.net.au [203.166.251.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B7C152DF for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:11:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08895; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:10:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:10:51 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726191051.B8664@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 at 11:39:21 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > > > You're right, I'll switch my servers over to Linux right > > > > away. > > > > > > > > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? > > > > > > Now, THAT is malicious!! The Linux penguin is all over, in all > > > sizes, and the *BSD community isn't able to spread their own > > > daemon! This IS a shame! > > > > Look, if you're not happy with what's available, make some > > yourself instead of bitching and expecting other people to do it. > > You were shown where to find images, but they're still not good > > enough.. bitching and moaning about it isn't solving anything or > > making other images that don't exist magically appear. It's only > > going to end up getting on everyone's nerves (especially people > > who *do* contribute), and get you a bunch hostile responses. > > With *that* kind of approaching people and issues, you should NOT > be surprised by the fact that FreeBSD has an unappropriatedly low > audience, despite its better stability and performance, compared > with Linux! *Sigh* No, that's the kind of response people who contribute nothing but complaining should expect. If you're not happy with something, *do* something about it instead of complaining about it. > Now, when I see that FreeBSD community is made by such _proud_ > people as you are [and remember: I was trying to became a FreeBSD > advocate, even if I'm coming from Linux! so we weren't in any > "religious" war!], I remember :-) > I may change my mind. Maybe FreeBSD is not the best choice. Maybe > other Unix-like Oses [primarily, Linux, I don't know which > distribution, but let's say Linux for now] should take from FreeBSD > all the good stuff andf that's all! I hate GPL, but due to the fact > that it also exist a LGPL for the libraries, writing code from > scratch and *dynamically* linking them with gnu libs make easy to > keep private your sources, hence developping commercial apps for > Linux. Why losing so much time for persuading people to switch to > FreeBSD if the FreeBSD community doesn't want this? Let them enjoy > this marvelous OS just for themelves, in the club... I've got no problem at all with people switching to, or wanting to advocate FreeBSD, but do it for the right reasons.. *NOT* because it has fancy wallpaper available or color ls. All I'm saying, is instead of complaining about the 'lack' of something like images, do something about it. Why do you think I started The FreeBSD 'zine? I didn't do it for lack of something better to do.. I did it because of lack of documentation.. now we get about 60,000 visits a month on average, which is a hell of alot more than I ever expected. It doesn't take much to contribute, and you'll make alot more friends that way than you will complaining about what's missing ;-) -- - Jim Mock - jim@blues.ghis.net - systems administrator - ghis.NET - - work: http://www.ghis.net/ - personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ - - FreeBSD 'zine: http://www.freebsdzine.org/ - jim@freebsdzine.org - - FreeBSD: http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ - jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:15:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F578152F9 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA15110; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:01 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA59617; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:00 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 10:40:44AM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 10:40:44 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: >> I agree. color ls is totally lame and I think you can get it running >> on freebsd but..why? I guess I must be the old one, not the OS... To >> each their own, but in my opinion a new install should never default >> to 'bells and whistles' mode as it assumes to much on the part of the >> end user hardware configs. > > It in _NOT_ a "too much assumption on end user hardware configs" to assume > it has a color-able terminal, in order to see "ls-color" running! > > And... it's too bad FreeBSD community is _that_ conservative and doesn't > make a 5-minute change in installation's _DEFAULTS_ that could attract 50% > of Linux community to FreeBSD! If that were the only effect, we'd do it. But the truth is that we would piss off most of the FreeBSD community. Understand: there are many people, myself included, who don't like colour ls. Don't get me wrong, I think we should do more to make it easy for Linux people to migrate to FreeBSD. But that's a sideline; somebody commented that we don't want to turn FreeBSD into Linux. On the other hand, the shell issue is an example of where we go over the top: I looked on freefall yesterday, and only one person uses csh. Nobody uses sh. I'd guess a large minority use tcsh, a couple use zsh, and the largest single group (60%?) use bash. So why don't we do it? I think it's just a matter of time before we do. > I saw that stupid "ls-NONcolour" default This sounds like a value judgement. > Should we also suppose that the fact the user MAY want to install X > is a "too much assumption"? No. > So, whay don't we take out this from the installation procedure, and > force the user to search for himself/herself for that? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You have the option of installing X or not doing so. What's your point? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:21:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8471535E for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA15139; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:48:29 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA59665; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:48:29 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:48:29 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: Seth , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726184829.X51019@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 10:50:24AM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 10:50:24 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: >> Because the application list is already on any modern FreeBSD system if >> you've installed the ports collection. Ports is one of the FreeBSD's > > Yeah, but this is NOT what I meant! Imagine that thousands of people are > making, for their own use or not, thousands of free [well, GPLed] Linux > apps. Why should I use Yahoo! to find that it *might* be on that world some > app which could help me? Instead... I can go to linuxapps.com, take the > source from there, and compile it either for Linux, either for FreeBSD! > However... :-( Yes, you're definitely confused. What does Yahoo! have to do with the issue? The Ports Collection is part of FreeBSD. >> Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and >> formats that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something >> like that... >> >>> Have you checked http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ammunition/images.html? > > Yes, but things could me MUCH better! I just want the _regular_ daemon, at a > greater size! Not the "new" daemons! The daemon from cdrom's cover, that is. > And I saw in an article, the same BSD daemon showing a "Will work for free" > sticker, but it was ways too small! I suspect you haven't seen all the images. If you have, you might like to clarify what you find irregular about them, and what kind of regularity you would like to have. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:30: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86EF314BE0 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:29:32 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:29:31 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, you're definitely confused. What does Yahoo! have to do with the > issue? The Ports Collection is part of FreeBSD. No, you're confused, because you haven't read _carefully_ the whole! It was about those Linux apps that can be compiled also under FreeBSD [so, 99% of them], those apps whose authors does NOT e-mail you at FreeBSD to tell you about their existance! For instance, win32 apps [freeware/shareware] can easily be found at sites like shareware.com, freewaresite.com, etc. etc. Linux apps cam be found also at linuxapps.com and, of course, serching with any search engine [y compris Yahoo] and finding, in various pages, that someone did something "for Linux". Now, for Linux there is at least one page [that is linuxapps.com] which is trying to list Linux apps w. sources, apps that are NOT included in any Linux distribution!!! So, not into FreeBSD/ports neither, presumedly! Capito? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:32:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6074C14BD8 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:32:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA03119; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:31:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "Eric A. Griff" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... References: <006901bed733$9f9727e0$c1f50dd0@cfpower.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Jul 1999 11:31:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Eric A. Griff"'s message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:53:52 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Eric A. Griff" writes: > Jeremy, > [...] Eric, when you do stuff like that, don't Bcc: it to advocacy. If people follow up to your post and forget to remove the Jeremy from the Cc: list,it may make you seem insincere... Instead, forward a copy of your mail to the list. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:41:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B52C14BD8 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:41:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 55117 invoked by uid 1003); 26 Jul 1999 09:41:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:41:37 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: Re: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726114137.A51637@rucus.ru.ac.za> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 12:29:31PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon 1999-07-26 (12:29), Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > Now, for Linux there is at least one page [that is linuxapps.com] which is > trying to list Linux apps w. sources, apps that are NOT included in any > Linux distribution!!! So, not into FreeBSD/ports neither, presumedly! > Capito? Understood. However, the point of the ports collection is to collect correct installation procedures for all existant programs that can work on FreeBSD. As such, should any application work on FreeBSD, there should be a port. Obviously, this is not so, but this is due to perceived complexity in the creation of a port. Should you find an application that works on FreeBSD, and for which a port doesn't exist, it's your aim to submit a PR and get it into the ports collection. Think of the ports collection as the equivalent of linuxapps.com - it's purpose is to list all apps that can run on FreeBSD. Linuxapps.com isn't exactly sentient, and thus needs people to submit applications to it. The same applies to the ports collection. There exist people who run through freshmeat.net and try to submit ports to the FreeBSD ports collection. As far as I have seen, any port of any redeeming quality, in the least, that is properly submitted, gets committed. There is a incorrect perception that the ports and package system is substandard, probably based on the lack of quality GUI package management systems. This is probably the cause of the "but, the thing doesn't even come with bash!!!!!!!" (color-ls, &c.) argument. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:44:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BD4814BD8 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:44:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:43:55 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: 'Neil Blakey-Milner' , Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: RE: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:43:54 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There is a incorrect perception that the ports and package system > is substandard, probably based on the lack of quality GUI package > management systems. This is probably the cause of the "but, the thing > doesn't even come with bash!!!!!!!" (color-ls, &c.) argument. Not "substandard", but not up-to-date! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:44:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E52014FB6 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:44:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA15401; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:14:33 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id TAA59873; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:14:31 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:14:31 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726191430.B51019@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 12:27:39PM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 12:27:39 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: >> Yes, you're definitely confused. What does Yahoo! have to do with the >> issue? The Ports Collection is part of FreeBSD. > > No, you're confused, because you haven't read _carefully_ the whole! I read the whole, carefully. > It was about those Linux apps that can be compiled also under > FreeBSD [so, 99% of them], those apps whose authors does NOT e-mail > you at FreeBSD to tell you about their existance! Ah. Then you should have said so. If you don't say what you mean, you make people think you're confused. > For instance, win32 apps [freeware/shareware] can easily be found at > sites like shareware.com, freewaresite.com, etc. etc. Linux apps > cam be found also at linuxapps.com and, of course, serching with any > search engine [y compris Yahoo] and finding, in various pages, that > someone did something "for Linux". Fine. > Now, for Linux there is at least one page [that is linuxapps.com] > which is trying to list Linux apps w. sources, apps that are NOT > included in any Linux distribution!!! So, not into FreeBSD/ports > neither, presumedly! Why do you presume that? > Capito? Not really. I think you're a little confused. Just because a program (even a Linux program) isn't included in any Linux distribution doesn't mean that it isn't in the Ports Collection. You appear to be new on the FreeBSD scene. I suspect you still haven't understood some of the cultural differences. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:55: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (pppc1-22.eisa.net.au [203.166.251.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2F614BD8 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15940; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:52:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:52:44 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726195243.A15891@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 at 12:29:31 +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Yes, you're definitely confused. What does Yahoo! have to do > > with the issue? The Ports Collection is part of FreeBSD. > > No, you're confused, because you haven't read _carefully_ the whole! > It was about those Linux apps that can be compiled also under > FreeBSD [so, 99% of them], those apps whose authors does NOT e-mail > you at FreeBSD to tell you about their existance! > > For instance, win32 apps [freeware/shareware] can easily be found at > sites like shareware.com, freewaresite.com, etc. etc. Linux apps > cam be found also at linuxapps.com and, of course, serching with any > search engine [y compris Yahoo] and finding, in various pages, that > someone did something "for Linux". > > Now, for Linux there is at least one page [that is linuxapps.com] > which is trying to list Linux apps w. sources, apps that are NOT > included in any Linux distribution!!! So, not into FreeBSD/ports > neither, presumedly! There's also Freshmeat (http://www.freshmeat.net), and it's *alot* bigger and more popular than linuxapps.com. Pick something from linuxapps.com. There are 2,502 different apps in the ports collection. Chances are what you're looking for is there (if it can be made to compile on FreeBSD). If it's not there, and you'd like to see it ported, either read the section of the handbook on porting and take a stab at it yourself, or email the ports mailing list and ask if someone would port it, or even email me, and I'll see if I can do it. Making a port isn't extremely difficult (I maintain about 20 or so.. and I'm always looking for more ;-)) as long as you read the handbook section on it. -- - Jim Mock - jim@blues.ghis.net - systems administrator - ghis.NET - - work: http://www.ghis.net/ - personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ - - FreeBSD 'zine: http://www.freebsdzine.org/ - jim@freebsdzine.org - - FreeBSD: http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ - jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 2:58:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7968814FB6 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 90496 invoked by uid 1003); 26 Jul 1999 09:58:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:58:59 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: Re: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726115859.A67323@rucus.ru.ac.za> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 12:43:54PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon 1999-07-26 (12:43), Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > There is a incorrect perception that the ports and package system > > is substandard, probably based on the lack of quality GUI package > > management systems. This is probably the cause of the "but, the thing > > doesn't even come with bash!!!!!!!" (color-ls, &c.) argument. > > Not "substandard", but not up-to-date! I assume you're referring to the actual versions of the software in the ports collection. This is a very DIY project. If you notice a problem, and noone else is doing it, if you have time and you know how to fix it, you fix it. If you don't know how to fix it, and you have time, you learn how to fix it. If you don't have time, you should probably mail (in this example) ports@freebsd.org and declare you don't have time, and you've noticed that version 2.x.y is out, and we only have 2.x.y-1, and then try motivate why it is in our interest to get 2.x.y. If it's more of a bug than a version difference, fix it or submit a PR describing the problem in full. If your "up-to-date" has to do with the inclusion of sh and csh, and exclusion of bash, tcsh, zsh, ksh, &c. in the base system, you haven't quite got to grips as to the concepts of "world". bash is not an integral part of the system, and the system can survive without it. sh is an integral part of the system, and the system could not survive without it. gcc is not necessarily an integral part of the system, but the system could not recreate itself without it. vacation (or any of the games except fortune) is not necessarily an integral part of the system, and the system could survive and recreate itself without it, but they've been distributed with it before, and it'd be hard to remove them without problems. I think the last example should start a few sparks as to why it's hard to put something into the base system that strictly isn't required. It should be obvious the tree would become more and more bloated with minimal increase in functionality. Bit rot tends to set in really easily in such a situation. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 3: 0: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4317514FB6 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:59:27 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'jim@blues.ghis.net'" , Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FW: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:59:26 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There's also Freshmeat (http://www.freshmeat.net), and it's *alot* > bigger and more popular than linuxapps.com. Pick something from > linuxapps.com. There are 2,502 different apps in the ports collection. Oh, FreshMeat is badly organized to my taste :-( FreeBSD ports collection is pretty large, so it wasn't about not liking it... it was a matter of principles :-) SlashDot is hard to read too, but this is about other things, though... However, about SlashDot, Linus himself told that he *never* accessed it! Maybe you'll tell me that a *serious* *BSD user never installed Linux ;-)) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 4:10:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mgw01.wxs.nl (mgw01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C955414E35 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skywise@wxs.nl) Received: from po03.wxs.nl (po03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.43]) by mgw01.wxs.nl (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA14512 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:10:19 +0200 Received: from webmail ([195.121.6.34]) by po03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA9A for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Selfstyled arrogance? X-Posting-Host: 195.108.245.85 [195.108.245.85] X-Posting-UID: skywise X-Mailer: Netscape Messenger Express 3.5 [Mozilla/4.04 [en]C-UUNETBCBV3 (Win95; I)] Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +0200 Message-ID: <77276D633FA.AAA9A@po03.wxs.nl> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys/gals, read this form of selfstyled arrogance: http://www.telly.org/86open/ The common binary is Linux ELF *bwerk* Wonder who ever gave that idea body..? regards, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 5:42:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8FC15331 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:42:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id IAA11984; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma011916; Mon, 26 Jul 99 08:41:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:41:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> To: Summoner Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don't know whether this has been addressed yet, but it seems to have bitten a LOT of people. Changing root's default shell is not a very good idea unless you're aware of the ramifications. Let's assume you DO have a need to change it (to bash, or zsh, or whatever). Here are things you absolutely must make sure of: 1) That the shell is listed in /etc/shells. Failure to do this will prevent that shell from being executed on login. 2) That the shell is statically linked! This is a MUST. In the event that you find your shared libraries hosed, you will not be able to execute any program that requires the use of those (damaged) shared libs. A statically linked shell will not have dependencies on any shared libs. 3) Also, be aware of the 'toor' account and make sure you have a valid, known password for it. Don't change toor's shell, and use it as a backup in case you have problems w/ root. Hope this helps. I've seen at least 3 people in the last couple weeks have problems because they failed to take into account one or more of these issues. SB On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Summoner wrote: > John Armstrong wrote: > > Just make sure > > root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. > > Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So that if > when screw over my installation again I still have a shell for single > user mode and (hopefully) fix things? Or does base shell mean > something else? > > My US$.019: I grew up on Bourne-style shells, I'm used to interactive > command-line editting. So it was key for my learning FreeBSD to use > bash. I don't need colour, never did. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 5:55:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.141.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE9415076 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15503; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:05:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: dragon.ham.muohio.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:05:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Howard X-Sender: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'John Armstrong'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > It in _NOT_ a "too much assumption on end user hardware configs" to assume > it has a color-able terminal, in order to see "ls-color" running! Yes it is, next week I am installing FreeBSD on a 486/33 with 8M of RAM and a 12in black and white monitor (Herc). I choose FreeBSD because I knew I would not have to put up with a lot of flashy eye-candy that is otherwise useless. :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 6:15: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DA414FFF for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id JAA08252; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma007580; Mon, 26 Jul 99 09:13:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Because the application list is already on any modern FreeBSD system if > > you've installed the ports collection. Ports is one of the FreeBSD's > > Yeah, but this is NOT what I meant! Imagine that thousands of people are > making, for their own use or not, thousands of free [well, GPLed] Linux > apps. Why should I use Yahoo! to find that it *might* be on that world some > app which could help me? Instead... I can go to linuxapps.com, take the > source from there, and compile it either for Linux, either for FreeBSD! > However... :-( I'm a bit confused then. You're saying that "the ports collection isn't comprehensive enough, and when I need an application that isn't included, I have to search for it"? That doesn't seem to be too onerous a task... there are plenty of search engines out there (web, IRC, gopher, whatever) that will point you in the right direction. Personally, if there's an app that I need that's not in the ports, I don't want to get it from anywhere but the "official" distribution site if that's possible. This reduces that chance of my picking up some modified code. As a last resort, I might try freshmeat or linuxapps. Most of the apps I've needed have built just fine (the exception being the ones using non-portable Linux networking code w/ no -DBSD). If you're not willing to do a bit of legwork on the rare occasion you need to install an app for which there is no port, I'm not sure FreeBSD is for you (as someone else pointed out). I don't like saying that, since it smacks of "my[our] way or the highway", but the Project has other, more pressing concerns than these issues which can be resolved with minimal effort in the ports collection or via a search engine. > > Yes, but things could me MUCH better! I just want the _regular_ daemon, at a > greater size! Not the "new" daemons! The daemon from cdrom's cover, that is. > And I saw in an article, the same BSD daemon showing a "Will work for free" > sticker, but it was ways too small! Why not make one and submit it then, if the dozens of existing images don't meet your needs? You might need to get McKusick's permission to redistribute it... Things could always be "much better". FreeBSD has done a great job in creating a system that meets the base needs of a majority of its users, while being customizable enough to meet most (if not all) of the needs of those users who want things done a little differently. In some cases, this requires a little bit of work. If your biggest gripe about the OS is that it doesn't install color-ls and daemon wallpaper for X by default, I think we're on the right track. SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 6:37:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD1E14F95 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:37:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:34:20 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: 'Seth' Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:34:19 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you're not willing to do a bit of legwork on the rare > occasion you need > to install an app for which there is no port, I'm not sure > FreeBSD is for > you (as someone else pointed out). I don't like saying that, since it > smacks of "my[our] way or the highway", but the Project has > other, more > pressing concerns than these issues which can be resolved with minimal > effort in the ports collection or via a search engine. This is quite a marketing issue, but you don't seem to see the point. This is one of the things [among many other reasons] that made Linux what it is today [I mean, "popular", and I won't say anything on other issues]. FreeBSD's way of making things "centralised" is principially good -- as FreeBSD will _hopefully_ always have only *one* official distribution] but in the meantime it's lack of supporting "openness" in orther way than by a centralised point, isn't good, IMHO. It's not always the better who win -- see bill gates for that. And many, many great ideas, including some operating systems [but not only that, just imagine what Amiga could do], dissapeared due to a wrong marketing policy! People who love FreeBSD will always love it. Independent consultants aware of both Linux and FreeBSD will probably recommend FreeBSD to more or less that 50% of people wanting free unices, depending of what their customers want to do. But just quality by itself just does not sell any more there days. I'm trying to adapt to FreeBSD addicts philosophy 'cause I'm not satisfied with the way Linux evolves. But I'm coming from Linux, and I develop for Win32 [hey! I have to live, ok?], so it _might_ be that I see things somewhat differently. Maybe you should _try_ to see things from an "outsider" point of view and see which are the weak points of FreeBSD propaganda. Good luck! Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 7:14: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC212152EC for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:13:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id KAA29592; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xmaa28789; Mon, 26 Jul 99 10:10:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > This is quite a marketing issue, but you don't seem to see the point. > This is one of the things [among many other reasons] that made Linux what it > is today [I mean, "popular", and I won't say anything on other issues]. I don't want to get into a debate regarding the benefits of Linux's "popularity". This subject has been discussed ad nauseum on this list, and it seems to be initiated from those users who have just come from a Linux background and haven't taken the time to adjust to the FreeBSD mentality (for lack of a better word). > > FreeBSD's way of making things "centralised" is principially good -- as > FreeBSD will _hopefully_ always have only *one* official distribution] but > in the meantime it's lack of supporting "openness" in orther way than by a > centralised point, isn't good, IMHO. Again, matter of opinion. I *like* the fact that there's a unified distribution, and if I want to upgrade my kernel, I don't have to worry about any installed software going south. If you like the "openness" of Linux, along with all the associated headaches keeping your applications and source tree in sync with whatever distribution you run, great. Just realize that there is more than one way of doing things, and pick the best for you. It may not be FreeBSD. > People who love FreeBSD will always love it. Independent consultants aware > of both Linux and FreeBSD will probably recommend FreeBSD to more or less > that 50% of people wanting free unices, depending of what their customers > want to do. But just quality by itself just does not sell any more there > days. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nor am I sure your statistics are valid. I'll just ignore this and move on. > > I'm trying to adapt to FreeBSD addicts philosophy 'cause I'm not satisfied > with the way Linux evolves. But I'm coming from Linux, and I develop for > Win32 [hey! I have to live, ok?], so it _might_ be that I see things > somewhat differently. It's evident that you *do* see things somewhat differently. It's not bad. What's frustrating to a lot of people in this group is that you've apparently just jumped in to using a recent version of FreeBSD, haven't taken the time to familiarize yourself with the benefits of its various features (ports, synchronization, etc.), and are more intent on comparing FreeBSD (and a non-recent version at that) to Linux, an OS with which you're more familiar, in a forum that's seen this behavior countless times with no appreciable derived benefit. In short: the best way to effect change in this community is to do it yourself and submit your work. Opinions & commentary without the requisite effort don't mean much and open you up to tirades such as those you've seen. > > Maybe you should _try_ to see things from an "outsider" point of view and > see which are the weak points of FreeBSD propaganda. I've come from the outside. In fact, I'd wager that a good portion of FreeBSD's userbase has migrated from other various flavors of *nix. Admittedly, there are some weak points (as there are in any OS). Having a user who is not familiar with the features of a modern FreeBSD release jump into this forum complaining about the lack of things like a colorized ls and a nice X background draws the ire of many people who are dedicated to enhancing more critical aspects of the OS. If the lack of a decent wallpaper upsets you greatly enough to mention it as a reason that Linux is better, I again urge you to create one yourself and submit it. At this point, I'm inclined to take further discussion off-line. Thanks. SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 7:42:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CBA1536F for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:41:08 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: no more quarrels ;-) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:41:08 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Despite of some disputes I managed to start here lately, I will nevertheless recommend FreeBSD to any people for which it may be suitable, and I will sustain this OS not only against M$ LoseNT4, but against Linux as well. I may tend to be unable to get along very well with some people [matter of opinions], but I'm still able to recognize a really good OS :-) In fact, I'd be glad if I'll be a FreeBSD administrator sometime, and if I'll manage to get into Unix development [not Windoze, like I'm doing now], be sure I'll always stress the FreeBSD part [you'll not see from my part "here's the Linux version", w/o having stated primarily "here's the link to the FreeBSD port, or download binary{+/-sources, it depends on the license} from here]. Good luck! Radu-Cristian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 8:10:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECBA14D87 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:10:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04687; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. Confused the hell outa me! -=========================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet, Regional Internet Services System Administrator 7 Area Codes in Chicagoland and NW Indiana jer@jorsm.com 100Mbps+ Connectivity, 56K-DS3, V.90, ISDN support@jorsm.com Quality Service, Affordable Prices http://www.jorsm.com Serving Gov, Biz, Indivds Since 1995 -=========================================================================- On 26 Jul 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "Eric A. Griff" writes: > > Jeremy, > > [...] > > Eric, when you do stuff like that, don't Bcc: it to advocacy. If > people follow up to your post and forget to remove the Jeremy from the > Cc: list,it may make you seem insincere... Instead, forward a copy of > your mail to the list. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 8:37: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173E314DBD for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA11324; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:36:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Jul 1999 17:36:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jeremy Shaffner's message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:06 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeremy Shaffner writes: > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > Confused the hell outa me! That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9: 1:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C98B153FB for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[208.13.245.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25111 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:00:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <003301bed77f$ef430d80$c1f50dd0@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:00:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hehe, From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav ; Eric A. Griff ; Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 11:36 AM Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... > Jeremy Shaffner writes: > > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > > Confused the hell outa me! > > That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: > header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. I thought about that, though wasn't going to drive on it. =) > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:18:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D5014E1C for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA04534; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:16:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379C89D0.E4529206@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:16:16 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'John Armstrong'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: [rants about lscolor] I noticed that *two* people claimed to use lscolor, me being one of them, and a *lot* others said they never touched it. Doesn't that give a clue to you? That, perhaps, lscolor is not a widely desired feature in your community? Certainly not widely enough to warrant bloating the system with something anyone can easily install optionally? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:23:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0308114D56 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA05342; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:21:37 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379C8AF7.D5AEEBFC@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:21:11 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Well, but this way, people will *still* believe of those apps that they're > Linux-only! :-( Point to them that X Free uses a BSD-style license. (not BSDL, but similar) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:41: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5F114E34 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA07545; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:37:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379C8EC5.76C7638D@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:37:25 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Now, when I see that FreeBSD community is made by such _proud_ people as you > are [and remember: I was trying to became a FreeBSD advocate, even if I'm > coming from Linux! so we weren't in any "religious" war!], I may change my > mind. Maybe FreeBSD is not the best choice. Maybe other Unix-like Oses > [primarily, Linux, I don't know which distribution, but let's say Linux for > now] should take from FreeBSD all the good stuff andf that's all! I hate > GPL, but due to the fact that it also exist a LGPL for the libraries, > writing code from scratch and *dynamically* linking them with gnu libs make > easy to keep private your sources, hence developping commercial apps for > Linux. Why losing so much time for persuading people to switch to FreeBSD if > the FreeBSD community doesn't want this? Let them enjoy this marvelous OS > just for themelves, in the club... Hey, this is NOT Linux. Linux is a kernel, FreeBSD is an operating system. You *CAN'T* throw everything in. First, because much of this "everything" is *others* people software. We *do* throw in some things from other projects, such as the compiler, the dns server, the mailer. But we also *take care* of it. We have it in our cvs source tree, we make revisions to it, we take problem reports (and often ask the originator to forward to the apropriate party, true enough), we patch it, and add things to it sometimes. But we *cannot* do that to every piece of software in the planet. It's impossible, and it's not productive. So, please, if you think there is a great program out there, FIRST OF ALL, remember it's *OUT THERE*. The *best* way to deal with it is make a PORT out of it. And here are the reasons: * Ports take much, much less space, and so we can pack much, much more ports. * Ports are optionally installed, so people who don't care about it[1] don't need to install it. * Ports are much more up to date than it would be possible if it was in the OS[2]. [1] Such as the great number of users who install FreeBSD in a monitor-less, mouse-less computer going into a rack, only to be accessed by telnet (ssh, etc) or serial console. [2] It's easier to update a port than import the source into the CVS tree, and we don't need to deal with the hassle of bugs coming in newer versions. Also, ports MAINTAINERS are much more numerous than committers, and we couldn't have it any other way[3] and keep the quality. [3] Don't give me that crap about we being more closed. We are talking about *everything*. Whatever you think of Linux openness, that is not the true of all software coming in a Linux distro, which is what colorls is all about. As a matter of fact, some of it is *closed source*. The reason people are getting mad at you is that you have been told from the beginning that what linuxapps or whatever does is the equivalent they *at last* implemented of our Ports, and still inferior to boot, but you just DON'T F*CKING LISTEN. Next time a friend of yours say "FreeBSD doesn't come with colorls/bash", answer that if they can't select what software they want installed at installation time, or if they can't change the shell they want to use, or create an alias for the ls command, they have no business using Unix in first place. Not even Linux. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:47:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D8914CAC for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.155]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5EF0; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:19 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01434; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:22:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:22:01 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: Re: no more quarrels ;-) Message-ID: <19990726182201.D1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:41:08PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Radu-Cristian FOTESCU (rfotescu@idsrom.com) [990726 17:15]: > I may tend to be unable to get along very well with some people [matter of > opinions], but I'm still able to recognize a really good OS :-) At least you are honest enough to give appropriate credit according to your visions. That's good. Everyone has different standards and mine happen to be BSDL & BSD Code instead of GNU and GPL. Surely other prefer the BSD TCP/IP stack or whatnot. And your vision sees something other than that to recognise FreeBSD as good. Welcome to the club I think I should say ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:47:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9745114D56 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.155]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB5EF0; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:20 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01456; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:34:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:34:35 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726183435.H1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 10:55:41AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Radu-Cristian FOTESCU (rfotescu@idsrom.com) [990726 13:15]: > > P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? > > Now, THAT is malicious!! The Linux penguin is all over, in all sizes, and > the *BSD community isn't able to spread their own daemon! This IS a shame! And again the answer is simple... As the MSNBC article pointed out, paraphrasing Matthew D. Fuller IIRC, the BSD userbase tends to act more mature in a lot of ways. One of those ways is the not needed stance of "my OS is the best, you fsckers should all use it!". We, I did at least, accepted the fact that my dad, and countless other clueless users, are better off with something like Windows 95 instead of Unix and the added complexity of file rights, ownership, etc... We also know that BSD _is_ good for a lot of stuff, we just not shout it out in everyone's ear. [to some people's dismay although] -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:47:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D5914E60 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.155]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAC5EF0; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:20 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01452; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:30:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:30:45 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'Seth'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726183045.G1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 10:50:24AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Radu-Cristian FOTESCU (rfotescu@idsrom.com) [990726 13:15]: > > Because the application list is already on any modern FreeBSD system if > > you've installed the ports collection. Ports is one of the FreeBSD's > > Yeah, but this is NOT what I meant! Imagine that thousands of people are > making, for their own use or not, thousands of free [well, GPLed] Linux > apps. Why should I use Yahoo! to find that it *might* be on that world some > app which could help me? Instead... I can go to linuxapps.com, take the > source from there, and compile it either for Linux, either for FreeBSD! > However... :-( Simple btw ;) You don't like the fact that freebsdapps.com/org/net doesn't exist? Register it and have fun! Nobody's forcing you to not do it, nobody's forcing you to do it. Your choice. That's the BSD way... That's how freebsddiary.com and freebsdzine.org came into being in the first place IIRC. [right Jim? right Dan?] -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:47:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8815914F3F for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.155]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAD5EF0; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:21 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01441; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:25:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:25:44 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'John Armstrong'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726182544.E1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 10:40:44AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Radu-Cristian FOTESCU (rfotescu@idsrom.com) [990726 13:15]: > It in _NOT_ a "too much assumption on end user hardware configs" to assume > it has a color-able terminal, in order to see "ls-color" running! > > And... it's too bad FreeBSD community is _that_ conservative and doesn't > make a 5-minute change in installation's _DEFAULTS_ that could attract 50% > of Linux community to FreeBSD! > > I saw that stupid "ls-NONcolour" default on RedHat3.0.3 [I was coming from > Slackware 3.0 at the time] and I fixed it in 3 minutes, but I'm still > wondering: why should 90% of users being _forced_ to do this? Or... are you > assuming that a Hercules card is the most usual today? Or an antique VT > unable to display colour? The keywords here are: basic functionality - FreeBSD works great as is without enforcing custom stuff down someone's throat customisability(sp?) - /usr/ports and the packages will allow the users whom do wish to use colorls or bash or ... That's BSD for you, it gives you basic functionality at sublimal levels with the ability to customise as if it's a Linux distribution [don't shoot me for that comparison guys ;)] Matter of philosophy I guess... -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:47:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06EFE15046 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.155]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAE5EF0; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:45:22 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01445; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:28:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:28:40 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Greg Lehey Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990726182840.F1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 06:45:00PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) [990726 13:15]: > Don't get me wrong, I think we should do more to make it easy for > Linux people to migrate to FreeBSD. But that's a sideline; somebody > commented that we don't want to turn FreeBSD into Linux. On the other > hand, the shell issue is an example of where we go over the top: I > looked on freefall yesterday, and only one person uses csh. Nobody > uses sh. I'd guess a large minority use tcsh, a couple use zsh, and > the largest single group (60%?) use bash. Guess I am the only fart to use ksh? I recognise DES and EE as the zsh freaks though *G* But then again Greg, judging on freefall doesn't account for csh's popularity in other environments where the default still would be csh and used. All a matter of taste... We could however kick csh out, make it a port, if it's not there already, and just have /bin/sh ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:55:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C4F14BD4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:55:23 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: no more quarrels ;-) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:55:22 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Everyone has different standards and mine happen to be BSDL & BSD Code > instead of GNU and GPL. Surely other prefer the BSD TCP/IP > stack or whatnot. I don't think many people *really* like GPL [except for rms]. However, you _do_ compile with gcc, don't you? ;-) > Welcome to the club I think I should say ;) Thx, though I'm not sure I'll not dd >/dev/null myself! Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 9:56: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B17A14CB6 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:56:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:55:52 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:55:51 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The reason people are getting mad at you is that you have been told > from the beginning that what linuxapps or whatever does is the > equivalent they *at last* implemented of our Ports, and still > inferior to boot, but you just DON'T F*CKING LISTEN. >=20 This isn't really something which would matter, anyway [ls-color, that = is]. Which means is the mentality [I'd say, stubbornnes] of *YOUR COMMUNITY* = [as to quote you; please read "FreeBSD community"].=20 If FreeBSD is something free, not commercial, nobody with a common = sense will not claim technical support or anything else [though he might get = some very useful support from the community]. However... this doesn't mean = that the FreeBSD community [not to mention the freebsd-advocacy list!] = should have such an egocentric attitude! And... an anti-marketing one, I'd = say! If you wanna chase users away from *BSD, please go on... OK, it's free, so = you don't do it for money. But [even if you're hating GPL, like I do] do = you want to make it just for yourself, or for serving...hmmm... the = humanity? It's understandable that you, people which contributed in essential = ways to FreeBSD development, are proud of that. However, you haven't made that system only for you!Being better than Linux in many ways doesn't mean = that users SHOULD LIKE what you like, and never have another opinion, = because you don't want to hear it. Microsoft partially does this way. Linux, = doesn't, as far as I can see. I'm afraid Unix gurus don't have much sense of marketing [neither do I, = but this has nothing to do with the topic]. But you must agree you should = have _some_ marketing open-mindness! When you're writing your Resum=E9, = you're not telling how good you are, you're telling to put it in a way easily understandable by those stupid recruiters ;-) right? Think about it. Again: I hate these "religious" wars! But... I'm not sure that = Linux-people started this. I think FreeBSD community has too much... how do you say = for the French "orgueil"? Radu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 10: 5:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8852414BD4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:05:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA10990; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:02:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379C94A2.4395DE36@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:02:26 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: no more quarrels ;-) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > > Everyone has different standards and mine happen to be BSDL & BSD Code > > instead of GNU and GPL. Surely other prefer the BSD TCP/IP > > stack or whatnot. > > I don't think many people *really* like GPL [except for rms]. However, you > _do_ compile with gcc, don't you? ;-) And you _do_ use X Free, don't you? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 10: 6:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0551524C for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA11359; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:05:08 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379C952A.AF97F9D6@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:04:42 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > > The reason people are getting mad at you is that you have been told > > from the beginning that what linuxapps or whatever does is the > > equivalent they *at last* implemented of our Ports, and still > > inferior to boot, but you just DON'T F*CKING LISTEN. > > > > This isn't really something which would matter, anyway [ls-color, that is]. > Which means is the mentality [I'd say, stubbornnes] of *YOUR COMMUNITY* [as > to quote you; please read "FreeBSD community"]. [etc] Now get back to my message and read the rest of it. I answered every single point you have made so far. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 10: 8: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from waveconcepts.com (waveconcepts.com [207.126.116.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AE914F3F for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from siberian@siberian.org) Received: from [216.112.76.84] (gamera.siberian.org [216.112.76.84] (may be forged)) by waveconcepts.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA09823 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: siberian@207.126.116.40 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:14 -0700 To: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" From: John Armstrong Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I personally use freebsd BECAUSE it doesn't have all the lame bells=20 and whistles. Everyone I know uses freebsd for this reason. Even my=20 desktop freebsd box is a bit sparse. For the most part, I think this=20 is the general freebsd culture. Linux culture mostly consists of=20 ex-Windows users who like the color and the flash and the sound and=20 the general garishness of the Windows operating system but in a KrAd=20 UNIX environment. NOTE : That was an 'Extreme Generalization', I=20 understand this. =46reeBSD is an awesomely stable and tough OS. I do not want to play=20 CIV:CTP on my FreeBSD machine, nor do I need colors to make me=20 understand permissions and I really do not need little noises going=20 off when I occasionally do use X-Windows. What my company needs is=20 solid performance with a known development path and unified support=20 structure. This is a cultural issue, not an ego issue. I am all for putting an=20 option in the install process to make things more comfortable for=20 linux users but defaulting to bells and whistles will chase away the=20 users that use freebsd to do workhorse tasks. Just as when you=20 install FreeBSD it says 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS=20 server?' 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS client' etc we may=20 want to have it say 'Would you like me to install Tools familiar to=20 Linux users?' But please, no defaults. John- At 7:55 PM +0300 7/26/99, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > The reason people are getting mad at you is that you have been told > > from the beginning that what linuxapps or whatever does is the > > equivalent they *at last* implemented of our Ports, and still > > inferior to boot, but you just DON'T F*CKING LISTEN. > > > >This isn't really something which would matter, anyway [ls-color, that is]. >Which means is the mentality [I'd say, stubbornnes] of *YOUR COMMUNITY* [as >to quote you; please read "FreeBSD community"]. > >If FreeBSD is something free, not commercial, nobody with a common sense >will not claim technical support or anything else [though he might get some >very useful support from the community]. However... this doesn't mean that >the FreeBSD community [not to mention the freebsd-advocacy list!] should >have such an egocentric attitude! And... an anti-marketing one, I'd say! If >you wanna chase users away from *BSD, please go on... OK, it's free, so you >don't do it for money. But [even if you're hating GPL, like I do] do you >want to make it just for yourself, or for serving...hmmm... the humanity? > >It's understandable that you, people which contributed in essential ways to >FreeBSD development, are proud of that. However, you haven't made that >system only for you!Being better than Linux in many ways doesn't mean that >users SHOULD LIKE what you like, and never have another opinion, because yo= u >don't want to hear it. Microsoft partially does this way. Linux, doesn't, a= s >far as I can see. > >I'm afraid Unix gurus don't have much sense of marketing [neither do I, but >this has nothing to do with the topic]. But you must agree you should have >_some_ marketing open-mindness! When you're writing your Resum=E9, you're n= ot >telling how good you are, you're telling to put it in a way easily >understandable by those stupid recruiters ;-) right? > >Think about it. > >Again: I hate these "religious" wars! But... I'm not sure that Linux-people >started this. I think FreeBSD community has too much... how do you say for >the French "orgueil"? > >Radu > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message ----------------------------------------------- 355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 10:53:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237E914D96 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25317; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:50:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:50:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: John Armstrong Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, John Armstrong wrote: > install FreeBSD it says 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS > server?' 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS client' etc we may > want to have it say 'Would you like me to install Tools familiar to > Linux users?' Isn't that what "Would you like to install additional software packages now?" is for? -Jeremy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 11:18:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from waveconcepts.com (waveconcepts.com [207.126.116.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AC415136 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from siberian@siberian.org) Received: from [216.112.76.84] (gamera.siberian.org [216.112.76.84] (may be forged)) by waveconcepts.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10481; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: siberian@207.126.116.40 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:17:40 -0700 To: Jeremy Shaffner From: John Armstrong Subject: RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yup, but its doesnt say : 'Hello Mr. Linux user, would you like me to make you feel at home'. Its a compromise between excessive customization without user notification and the current situation ( which I personally like ) of installing and assuming nothing extraneous. I was just trying to put out an intermediate ground between Radu's extremism and the FreeBSD culture. John- At 12:50 PM -0500 7/26/99, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: >On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, John Armstrong wrote: > > > install FreeBSD it says 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS > > server?' 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS client' etc we may > > want to have it say 'Would you like me to install Tools familiar to > > Linux users?' > >Isn't that what "Would you like to install additional software packages >now?" is for? > >-Jeremy > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------- People will remember you better if you always wear the same outfit. - Talking Heads To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 11:18:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50BE14F12 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13703; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Jim Mock Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: <19990726191051.B8664@blues.ghis.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > All I'm saying, is instead of complaining about the 'lack' of > something like images, do something about it. Why do you think I > started The FreeBSD 'zine? I didn't do it for lack of something > better to do.. I did it because of lack of documentation.. now we get > about 60,000 visits a month on average, which is a hell of alot more > than I ever expected. It doesn't take much to contribute, and you'll > make alot more friends that way than you will complaining about what's > missing ;-) This is exactly the same reason I started the Daemon News. With Wes's article this month, I think we might get 300,000 hits. My wife draws "The Advuentures of Darby", and I am going to collect most of her stuff and put it up on a web page on ezine.daemonnews.org. If I can figure out how, I want to make a "Darcy" theme for Enlightenment. If anyone wants to help out... -Chris > > -- > - Jim Mock - jim@blues.ghis.net - systems administrator - ghis.NET - > - work: http://www.ghis.net/ - personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ - > - FreeBSD 'zine: http://www.freebsdzine.org/ - jim@freebsdzine.org - > - FreeBSD: http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ - jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org - > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 11:31:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932EC14E55 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:31:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id DAA18889; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:29:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379CA904.C094B180@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:29:25 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Armstrong Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Armstrong wrote: > > Yup, but its doesnt say : > > 'Hello Mr. Linux user, would you like me to make you feel at home'. > > Its a compromise between excessive customization without user > notification and the current situation ( which I personally like ) of > installing and assuming nothing extraneous. I was just trying to put > out an intermediate ground between Radu's extremism and the FreeBSD > culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah... Ok... But what Linux distribution? Mmmm... I have an idea... if I recall correctly, wasn't it Jesus Monroy who answered "yes" when someone asked if FreeBSD is a kind of Linux? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 13:45: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622BC14FDD for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:44:32 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDV9T; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:44:32 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 118rbl-0004QM-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:44:25 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:44:25 +0100 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... Message-Id: <19990726214424.A16979@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Jeremy Shaffner writes: > > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > > Confused the hell outa me! > > That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: > header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. Surely Return-Path: is the sensible choice? It works with all mailing lists, regardless of where they come from? -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 14:26:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B9F14C1F for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:26:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.238]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB5A1F; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:24:42 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05083; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:23:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:23:47 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... Message-ID: <19990726232347.B4938@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dag-Erling Smorgrav (des@flood.ping.uio.no) [990726 21:15]: > Jeremy Shaffner writes: > > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > > Confused the hell outa me! > > That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: > header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. What's wrong with Sender: or X-Loop: ? ;) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 15:23:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF3014A09 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.224] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118t6R-0004ZZ-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:20:21 -0600 Subject: Hello? Message-Id: From: wes@softweyr.com Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:20:21 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just wondering if the FreeBSD mailer will accept mail THIS way. Sorry to wake you. -- Wes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 16:21:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from foobar.franken.de (foobar.franken.de [194.94.249.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF1B14E2F for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from logix@foobar.franken.de) Received: (from logix@localhost) by foobar.franken.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA15297; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990727012029.B14540@foobar.franken.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:20:29 +0200 From: Harold Gutch To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeremy Shaffner Cc: "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Jeremy Shaffner writes: > > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > > Confused the hell outa me! > > That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: > header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. > Anything wrong with "Sender:" ? The following filters all FreeBSD-lists, I don't even have to add new ones after subscribing :): # FreeBSD-lists :0: * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG { LISTNAME=${MATCH} :0 * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ FreeBSD-lists/${MATCH} } and with a `echo $HOME/Mail/FreeBSD-lists/*` in my ~/.muttrc, I don't even have to tell mutt to recognize it as a new list anymore either. bye, Harold -- Sleep is an abstinence syndrome wich occurs due to lack of caffein. Wed Mar 4 04:53:33 CET 1998 #unix, ircnet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 16:36:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5411114E97 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id TAA04686; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma004606; Mon, 26 Jul 99 19:35:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:35:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... In-reply-to: <19990726214424.A16979@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> To: Dominic Mitchell Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeremy Shaffner , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not to beat a dead (dying) horse, but what's wrong w/ * ^FROM.*freebsd.org ? SB On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 05:36:54PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Jeremy Shaffner writes: > > > Not to mention that procmail didn't catch it and it wound up in my INBOX. > > > Confused the hell outa me! > > > > That's because your procmail filter is broken :) use the Delivered-To: > > header to filter FreeBSD mailing lists, not the To: or Cc: headers. > > Surely Return-Path: is the sensible choice? It works with all mailing > lists, regardless of where they come from? > -- > Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator > > In Mountain View did Larry Wall > Sedately launch a quiet plea: > That DOS, the ancient system, shall > On boxes pleasureless to all > Run Perl though lack they C. > -- > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > ********************************************************************** > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 17:11:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wenet.net (pm3-44.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC1C14DA3 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by wenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA02118 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:10:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD? In Japan? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm. According to the latest spewage from slashdot, "TurboLinux" is the #1 OS in Japan.. wading through the posts, it's noted that they are counting only retail sales. Yet, I've managed to unearth a lovely post: Re:Don't forget FREEBSD by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, @07:20PM EDT (#69) No. FreeBSD is invisible in Japan. I've lived here for 18 months and the Linux momentum is awesome. I've seen Linux on sale at newstands and drug stores. Never seen any BSD on sale anywhere. Sorry. /me wonders what the real truth is.. - alex You wear guilt, like shackles on your feet, Like a halo in reverse - Depeche Mode To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 17:20: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF5E14EC5 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11091; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011069; Mon Jul 26 17:16:51 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA23570; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:16:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907270016.RAA23570@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD? In Japan? To: garbanzo@hooked.net (Alex Zepeda) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:16:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Zepeda" at Jul 26, 99 05:10:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmm. According to the latest spewage from slashdot, "TurboLinux" is the > #1 OS in Japan.. wading through the posts, it's noted that they are > counting only retail sales. Yet, I've managed to unearth a lovely post: > > Re:Don't forget FREEBSD > by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, @07:20PM EDT (#69) > No. FreeBSD is invisible in Japan. I've lived here for 18 months and > the Linux momentum is awesome. I've seen Linux on sale at newstands > and drug stores. Never seen any BSD on sale anywhere. Sorry. > > /me wonders what the real truth is.. KAME and WIDE and the University of Tokyo all use FreeBSD for their Mobile IP projects. Also, it is rumored that there will soon be a "Jordan Hubbard" garage kit released, for all of you FreeBSD Otaku... it's rumored, though, that it's really just a "Riding Bean" kit with a replacement head, but initial reactions have been Subarashi! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 17:58: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from neptune.psn.net (neptune.psn.net [207.211.58.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E708D1503E for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@shadow.blackdawn.com) Received: from 5042-243.008.popsite.net ([209.224.140.243] helo=shadow.blackdawn.com) by neptune.psn.net with esmtp (PSN Internet Service 2.12 #3) for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG id 117tju-0005sO-00; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:48:51 -0700 Received: (from will@localhost) by shadow.blackdawn.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA32035 for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:48:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from will) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990724105637.K84734@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Will Andrews From: Will Andrews To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jul-99 Greg Lehey wrote: > It looks as if you didn't set your ldconfig paths for a.out. It's > easy to miss. Logic would also point out that since some programs (most notably Netscape) have not yet converted to a.out, there should be a way for a.out programs to work under an ELF kernel. Thus, it goes without saying that keeping your mind open and considering other possibilities will lead to a conclusion that perhaps there is something misconfigured on your system. :-) In fact, it's an Unofficial Law (Moore should have thought of this): Misconfigurations are 95% of problems with systems. Anyway, enough rambling from me. (this is offtopic enough anyhow) -- Will Andrews System Administrator, Gatekeeper Technologies http://www.gatekeep.net/ - Powered by FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 18:22:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F9915128 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00849; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'Seth'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:50:24 +0300." Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:21:19 -0700 Message-ID: <845.933038479@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yeah, but this is NOT what I meant! Imagine that thousands of people are > making, for their own use or not, thousands of free [well, GPLed] Linux > apps. Why should I use Yahoo! to find that it *might* be on that world some > app which could help me? Instead... I can go to linuxapps.com, take the So create a freebsdapps.com which performs the same purpose and Be Happy. These sorts of mechanisms don't just appear magically all by themselves and yelling at others to create them for you is not going to work either. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself, as the old saying goes, so go for it. > Yes, but things could me MUCH better! I just want the _regular_ daemon, at a > greater size! Not the "new" daemons! The daemon from cdrom's cover, that is. I'm not sure who, if anyone, has that image available but if it's found I'm sure it will find its way to the advocacy web site. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 18:24: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00761507E for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00875; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'jim@blues.ghis.net'" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:39:21 +0300." Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <871.933038685@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think you should stop raving on this mailing list is what you should stop doing. Perhaps your communications are not meant to be seen as "raving" but that's exactly how you're coming across and that's hardly our fault, FreeBSD's fault or a "pride" issue. I'm just calling it as I see it, and what I see is somebody who clearly feels that bitching and moaning is somehow constructive behavior instead of, well, just bitching and moaning. It does no good whatsoever to act like this and if you somehow feel that Linux is a more fertile ground for infantile behavior or something, feel free to go back! We don't need or want that kind of dysfunctionality here. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 18:42:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E46714DB4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19418; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:10:53 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA62554; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:10:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:10:51 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990727111051.F62218@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com> <19990726182840.F1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990726182840.F1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org>; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 06:28:40PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 18:28:40 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > * Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) [990726 13:15]: >> Don't get me wrong, I think we should do more to make it easy for >> Linux people to migrate to FreeBSD. But that's a sideline; somebody >> commented that we don't want to turn FreeBSD into Linux. On the other >> hand, the shell issue is an example of where we go over the top: I >> looked on freefall yesterday, and only one person uses csh. Nobody >> uses sh. I'd guess a large minority use tcsh, a couple use zsh, and >> the largest single group (60%?) use bash. > > Guess I am the only fart to use ksh? Dunno. It's a pity we don't have a real /etc/passwds any more. That was an interesting source of statistics. > I recognise DES and EE as the zsh freaks though *G* > > But then again Greg, judging on freefall doesn't account for csh's > popularity in other environments where the default still would be > csh and used. Sure. They're probably the commercial environments where tcsh hasn't been ported, and where people are too lazy to move to one of the Bourne descendants. > All a matter of taste... We could however kick csh out, make it a > port, if it's not there already, and just have /bin/sh ;) No, I think that would start another religious war. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 18:44:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD7E14BE3 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19444; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:13:25 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA62578; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:13:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:13:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Armstrong Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990727111325.G62218@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from John Armstrong on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 11:17:40AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 July 1999 at 11:17:40 -0700, John Armstrong wrote: > At 12:50 PM -0500 7/26/99, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, John Armstrong wrote: >> >>> install FreeBSD it says 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS >>> server?' 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS client' etc we may >>> want to have it say 'Would you like me to install Tools familiar to >>> Linux users?' >> >> Isn't that what "Would you like to install additional software packages >> now?" is for? > > Yup, but its doesnt say : > > 'Hello Mr. Linux user, would you like me to make you feel at home'. Right, and this is exactly what I'm trying to change. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 26 18:44:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bh.mbn.or.jp (bh.mbn.or.jp [202.217.0.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014CB14DB4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mimiandi@bh.mbn.or.jp) Received: from bh.mbn.or.jp (cse8-46.machida.mbn.or.jp [210.144.132.70]) by bh.mbn.or.jp (8.9.1a/bh.mbn.or.jp-2.0) with ESMTP id KAA13684 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:43:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379DF0FB.68F713AF@bh.mbn.or.jp> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:48:43 -0700 From: mimiandi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re:FreeBSD? In Japan? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Zepeda wrote: > > Hmm. According to the latest spewage from slashdot, "TurboLinux" is the > #1 OS in Japan.. wading through the posts, it's noted that they are > counting only retail sales. Yet, I've managed to unearth a lovely post: Yes, TurboLinux is popular in Japan but I am not sure if it is #1. Because turbolinux has highest retail sales, it does not mean that they are all being installed and used. I have some linux cds that are being used quite nicely on my tea table :) > Re:Don't forget FREEBSD > by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, @07:20PM EDT (#69) > No. FreeBSD is invisible in Japan. I've lived here for 18 months and > the Linux momentum is awesome. I've seen Linux on sale at newstands > and drug stores. Never seen any BSD on sale anywhere. Sorry. What A BULL**** .... I have been here for less than 3 months and I have seen plenty stuff about FreeBSD from books to Cds. However, I did notice that there are more stuff Linux than FreeBSD. Even on hardwares, it mentions "TurboLinux ready" but not "FreeBSD ready". > /me wonders what the real truth is.. That's the real truth :) Daniel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 0:47:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D8E1535A for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:45:53 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDW1A; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:45:52 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 1191vl-000GyO-00; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:45:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:45:45 +0100 To: Seth Cc: Dominic Mitchell , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeremy Shaffner , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... Message-Id: <19990727084545.A65205@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <19990726214424.A16979@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Seth on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 07:35:45PM -0400 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 07:35:45PM -0400, Seth wrote: > Not to beat a dead (dying) horse, but what's wrong w/ > * ^FROM.*freebsd.org > ? 1) People might subscribe to more than one mailing list. 2) Think what happens to BCC's. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 1:48:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A1B152BD for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA34834; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:46:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeremy Shaffner , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... References: <19990726232347.B4938@daemon.ninth-circle.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Jul 1999 10:46:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai's message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:23:47 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > What's wrong with Sender: or X-Loop: ? ;) Yep, Sender: is correct, not Delivered-To: as I wrote earlier (I use Sendmail, which doesn't touch Delivered-To:, but people who use Postfix or QMail won't have a usable Delivered-To: since their MTA will change it to their address instead of the list's) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 2:30: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD3015052 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA35762; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:27:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Jul 1999 11:27:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU's message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:55:51 +0300" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU writes: > Again: I hate these "religious" wars! But... I'm not sure that Linux-people > started this. I think FreeBSD community has too much... how do you say for > the French "orgueil"? Pride. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 2:39: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEDD14D77 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA36012; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:38:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com> <19990726182840.F1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990727111051.F62218@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Jul 1999 11:38:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:10:51 +0930" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > Dunno. It's a pity we don't have a real /etc/passwds any more. That > was an interesting source of statistics. We have NIS. des@freefall ~% ypcat passwd | perl -ne '{ split(/:/); $shells{@_[6]}++; } END { while (($shell, $count) = each(%shells)) { next unless $shell =~ m/sh/; printf("%3d %s", $count, $shell); } }' 84 /usr/local/bin/bash 105 /usr/local/bin/tcsh 9 /usr/local/bin/zsh 6 /usr/local/bin/ksh 12 /bin/sh 44 /bin/csh DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 4:51:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [207.211.168.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C8E153B8 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcsobral@newsguy.com) Received: (from dcsobral@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id EAA89129; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907271151.EAA89129@newsguy.com> X-Mailer: Direct Read Email by Newsguy News Service To: garbanzo@hooked.net From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: FreeBSD? In Japan? Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:10:09 -0700 (PDT), you wrote > > Re:Don't forget FREEBSD > by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, @07:20PM EDT (#69) > No. FreeBSD is invisible in Japan. I've lived here for 18 months and > the Linux momentum is awesome. I've seen Linux on sale at newstands > and drug stores. Never seen any BSD on sale anywhere. Sorry. > >/me wonders what the real truth is.. The truth is that there are dozens of FreeBSD books available, I never saw Linux on sale on a place did not have FreeBSD too, no number of Unix Magazine without at least a couple of articles on FreeBSD, and, frankly, I have seen more FreeBSD articles and cds around the computer sciences laboratories where I study than Linux. Actually, I don't recall seeing Linux at all, but that's probably a fluke... :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 6:13: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47AAB14D72 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 06:13:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20281; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:12:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: garbanzo@hooked.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD? In Japan? In-Reply-To: <199907271151.EAA89129@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have had two different companies contact me wanting to publish a BSD magazine in Japan and use Daemon News content to do it. -Chris On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > At Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:10:09 -0700 (PDT), you wrote > > > > Re:Don't forget FREEBSD > > by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 26, @07:20PM EDT (#69) > > No. FreeBSD is invisible in Japan. I've lived here for 18 months and > > the Linux momentum is awesome. I've seen Linux on sale at newstands > > and drug stores. Never seen any BSD on sale anywhere. Sorry. > > > >/me wonders what the real truth is.. > > The truth is that there are dozens of FreeBSD books available, I never saw > Linux on sale on a place did not have FreeBSD too, no number of Unix Magazine > without at least a couple of articles on FreeBSD, and, frankly, I have seen > more FreeBSD articles and cds around the computer sciences laboratories where > I study than Linux. Actually, I don't recall seeing Linux at all, but that's > probably a fluke... :-) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 7:17:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189FC14DFA for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA27312; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:16:59 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379DB859.E3CEE1EF@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:47:05 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <19990726184500.W51019@freebie.lemis.com> <19990726182840.F1384@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990727111051.F62218@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > des@freefall ~% ypcat passwd | perl -ne '{ split(/:/); $shells{@_[6]}++; } END { while (($shell, $count) = each(%shells)) { next unless $shell =~ m/sh/; printf("%3d %s", $count, $shell); } }' > 84 /usr/local/bin/bash Windows 98 > 105 /usr/local/bin/tcsh Windows NT > 9 /usr/local/bin/zsh Linux > 6 /usr/local/bin/ksh FreeBSD > 12 /bin/sh I don't know > 44 /bin/csh no reply ;-> -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 27 16:18:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C435B14D88 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29385; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd029354; Tue Jul 27 16:17:57 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01135; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:17:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199907272317.QAA01135@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: What would it take, for another version... To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:17:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, des@flood.ping.uio.no, jer@jorsm.com, eric@setjmp.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Jul 27, 99 10:46:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yep, Sender: is correct, not Delivered-To: as I wrote earlier (I use > Sendmail, which doesn't touch Delivered-To:, but people who use > Postfix or QMail won't have a usable Delivered-To: since their MTA > will change it to their address instead of the list's) Not to mention that it is non-standard, and qmail likes to add useless cruft to the front of each address... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 9:53:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFE214F8D; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:53:12 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDXR3; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:53:10 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 119Wx1-0004vJ-00; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:53:07 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:53:07 +0100 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: www@freebsd.org Subject: Network Week article on FreeBSD (compared to Solaris & SCO) Message-Id: <19990728175306.A18921@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's an article in Network Week you may like to have a look at and point at other people. It's comparing FreeBSD to Solaris and SCO (with a few unfavourable Linux comments). Let the author know you appreciate his work! http://www.techwebuk.com/story/TUK19990726S0029 [ I've cc'd www@freebsd.org, so it can go in /news/press.html section of the site. ] -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 12:52:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AA415033 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10732 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:49:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:49:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: reviews 'r' us Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I saw this at Freshmeat - we should make sure FreeBSD is included (note there's no info on their web page yet). I'm going to offer to help, but I will be out of contact (due to moving) for a couple weeks. Besides, the more people the better! :-) Brett ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alternative OS supertest at Reviews 'r' Us Sandy - July 28th 1999, 05:35 EST Reviews 'r' Us are starting a huge Alternative OS supertest and feature and Linux looks set to be the star of the show. In order to complete this massive feature, the organizers need your contributions, help with writing articles, reviews, making graphics and web-pages. They also need to interview all types of Linux user (business, home, artist, beginner, intermediate, expert etc etc). This looks to be one of the biggest slices of Linux life to go on public view, and should lead to a massive ammout of increased interest in Linux. If you feel you can be of any use with this project, you should get in touch with Sandy Smith (sandy@reviews-r-us.com) and he can tell you what you could do to help out. -------------------------------------------------------------------- *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 13: 6: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C0F153FA for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: from kilt.nothing-going-on.org (kilt.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.18]) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA66647; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:56:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by kilt.nothing-going-on.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA53730; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:40:44 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:40:44 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Armstrong Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Search engine on website Message-ID: <19990728174044.B52655@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from John Armstrong on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 01:31:54AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 01:31:54AM -0700, John Armstrong wrote: > Am I the only one who is pretty annoyed at the online search engine > at www.freebsd.org? It works great but it returns URL's rather then > the document titles that it is searching. This makes it especially > hard for newbies to find the data they are looking for as they have > to page through tons of results to syphon out the data they want. You're not the only one, there's a PR been mentioned about this as well. > 1) Is there a reason it is like this? That's how the software does it. No one's gotten around to fixing it. > 2) If the reason is 'no one has gotten around to it' how can I help? 1. Download the website CVS source repository, using CVSup or CTM. 2. Get comfortable building a local copy of the FreeBSD website on your machine using this source code. 3. Pick up swish (I've used it before myself, it's a good choice), and come up with a configuration file that can be used to index the FreeBSD site -- swish is in the ports tree, so this should work well. 4. Get it working. 5. Submit diffs using send-pr(1). Bug me until I (or Wolfram) install it and get it working. I've been a little hazy on some of the details up there, but that's because I don't want to write a(nother) 300 line e-mail. If you need more specific information though, let me now. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 13:56:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07F3154D8 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02888 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:55:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <005501bed93b$6271de00$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" Subject: Fw: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:54:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric A. Griff To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 4:53 PM Subject: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. > Hi Sandy, > > My name is Eric Griff. I caught wind that you may be having a > "Alternative OS SuperTest, and Feature", and that you may be looking for > contributions, interviews, etc. > > Would this Supertest include FreeBSD? I have been using FreeBSD since > 1995, and have found it to be the most reliable and stable, for what I use > it for. (email, web, dns, snmp, routing, firewalling, etc). It's also layed > out in a way that makes it easy for me to develop new ideas on it (things > are easily located at every level of the system). > > 2.1.5 to the present 3.2-Stable, I've run, and never had the house burn > down. > > If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know. > > Thank you for your minute, =) > > Eric A. Griff, > setjmp Software > Your source for custom Software Solutions. > 181 Genesee Street > Suite 504 > Utica, NY 13501 > Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com > Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 14:52:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E631915526 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:51:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02991 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:48:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Message-ID: <006f01bed942$cd4cbd60$c100000a@cfpower.com> Reply-To: "Eric A. Griff" From: "Eric A. Griff" To: References: <19990728174044.B52655@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> Subject: Re: Search engine on website Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:47:32 -0400 Organization: CFPower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 01:31:54AM -0700, John Armstrong wrote: > > Am I the only one who is pretty annoyed at the online search engine > > at www.freebsd.org? It works great but it returns URL's rather then > > the document titles that it is searching. This makes it especially > > hard for newbies to find the data they are looking for as they have > > to page through tons of results to syphon out the data they want. > This is a particular area, that having ColdFusion Application Server for FreeBSD would be real useful. It includes technology from Verity (Verity Collections), that makes content indexing a charm, and makes a tag based environment that makes working with it a snap. It can search Pages, Databases, and numerous other formats (some Win32 specific, like M$ office documents (may not be so portable since I believe it uses the ActiveX controls)). For those that aren't familiar with it, ColdFusion is a Web Application Middleware from Allaire Corporation in Cambridge MA (http://www.allaire.com), that is becoming competition to Microsoft. While the current primary opporating Environment is Microsoft Windows, there is also a Solaris Version out there. There is also a HPUX beta, and a few linux components there now (a full blown linux version is in the works). I ran into ColdFusion, when System Admin for NETDesign Inc. (http://www.netdesign1.com), and for many things found it to be very useful. While it isn't the cheapest solution out there, it does lend itself to very fast web application development. While there, I (part of a team of 4) developed a complete Real Estate Multiple Listing Service(TM) Members System that's expected to eliminate about 250,000 sheets of paper a year, and took the agent away from his desk (in meanial tasks) into the field with a laptop, where there living is really made. We accomplished this from start to completion (debugged) in about 3 months. It is currently servicing 2 MLS(TM) s (about 250 agents), and several 1000 member services are ready to go on board. Dynamic Web Applications (with fast training, and development), is truly the future. This is where much of the industry is going. As a consultant, I am getting more work than I can handle in this area, and without giving references, hehe, scary eh? The more the OS has available for that webbrowser on the client end, the more valuable it will be in the IT managers eyes. At the same time, from experience, as long as developers can access the data they are working on, they will be happy =) Whenever I made a FreeBSD Solution at ND, They were more than pleased with it's working. NT on the other hand, requires way too much time to maintain. You need to stay on top of it daily, or risk Having to reinstall and repair/restore some very obscure pieces of system data =( Thank you for your minute, Eric A. Griff, setjmp Software Your source for. 181 Genesee Street custom Software Solutions! Suite 504 Utica, NY 13501 Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 15:59:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2573415556 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:58:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03153 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:58:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <009401bed94c$99d704e0$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Subject: Fw: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:57:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandy Smith To: Eric A. Griff Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 7:07 PM Subject: Re: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. > "Eric A. Griff" wrote: > > > Hi Sandy, > > > > My name is Eric Griff. I caught wind that you may be having a > > "Alternative OS SuperTest, and Feature", and that you may be looking for > > contributions, interviews, etc. > > > > Would this Supertest include FreeBSD? I have been using FreeBSD since > > 1995, and have found it to be the most reliable and stable, for what I use > > it for. (email, web, dns, snmp, routing, firewalling, etc). It's also layed > > out in a way that makes it easy for me to develop new ideas on it (things > > are easily located at every level of the system). > > > > 2.1.5 to the present 3.2-Stable, I've run, and never had the house burn > > down. > > > > If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know. > > > > Thank you for your minute, =) > > > > Eric A. Griff, > > setjmp Software > > Your source for custom Software Solutions. > > 181 Genesee Street > > Suite 504 > > Utica, NY 13501 > > Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com > > Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) > > Great - I have had over 40 linux replies and counting, yet you are only the > 3rd FreeBSD user. Basically, if you could write a couple of articles > explaining what it is, how to get it, its history, and a review of it, that > would be brilliant - I know this is a lot to ask, but as I say, we haven't had > that many FreeBSD offers > Thanks a lot > Sandy > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 15:59:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BAC15558 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA03157 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:59:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <009c01bed94c$a0c3a1f0$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Subject: Fw: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:57:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric A. Griff To: Sandy Smith Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 6:57 PM Subject: Re: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest and feature. > Sandy, > > Sure. Over the next few days, I'll write some for you. Been busy, though > in that timeframe I am sure I can fit it in. > > Actually, it's not a lot to ask, and I appreciate the request =) I'll > pass the message onto a few others too that may be willing to write as well > =) > > Thank you very much for this opportunity, > > Eric A. Griff, > setjmp Software > Your source for custom Software Solutions. > 181 Genesee Street > Suite 504 > Utica, NY 13501 > Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com > Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sandy Smith > To: Eric A. Griff > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: I would like to know more about your Alternative OS supertest > and feature. > > > > "Eric A. Griff" wrote: > > > > > Hi Sandy, > > > > > > My name is Eric Griff. I caught wind that you may be having a > > > "Alternative OS SuperTest, and Feature", and that you may be looking for > > > contributions, interviews, etc. > > > > > > Would this Supertest include FreeBSD? I have been using FreeBSD > since > > > 1995, and have found it to be the most reliable and stable, for what I > use > > > it for. (email, web, dns, snmp, routing, firewalling, etc). It's also > layed > > > out in a way that makes it easy for me to develop new ideas on it > (things > > > are easily located at every level of the system). > > > > > > 2.1.5 to the present 3.2-Stable, I've run, and never had the house > burn > > > down. > > > > > > If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know. > > > > > > Thank you for your minute, =) > > > > > > Eric A. Griff, > > > setjmp Software > > > Your source for custom Software Solutions. > > > 181 Genesee Street > > > Suite 504 > > > Utica, NY 13501 > > > Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 > eric@setjmp.com > > > Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) > > > > Great - I have had over 40 linux replies and counting, yet you are only > the > > 3rd FreeBSD user. Basically, if you could write a couple of articles > > explaining what it is, how to get it, its history, and a review of it, > that > > would be brilliant - I know this is a lot to ask, but as I say, we haven't > had > > that many FreeBSD offers > > Thanks a lot > > Sandy > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 20:46:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A90154F0 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA03649 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:46:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <035a01bed974$ceb450f0$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: References: <19990722102041.A15560@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Subject: Re: Slashdot poll Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:45:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still only 4% =( http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=ostime Eric A. Griff, setjmp Software Your source for custom Software Solutions. 181 Genesee Street Suite 504 Utica, NY 13501 Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 eric@setjmp.com Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 4:20 AM Subject: Slashdot poll > Come on people! > > Go over to http://slashdot.org and vote for BSD on the poll... > > The Mac users are even outnumbering us =\ > > GO! =) > > -- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl > The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project > Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best > Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 21: 4: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F31114F2B for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (freyes.static.inch.com [207.240.212.43]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA26642; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907290403.AAA26642@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:04:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Slashdot poll Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:45:30 -0400, Eric A. Griff wrote: >This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still >only 4% =( > >http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=ostime I just looked at that poll... BSD is NOT above macs. Macs have 7% while BSD only has 4% I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some serious advocacy. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 21:27:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6150B1546E for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA03735 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:27:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@cfpower.com) Message-ID: <002901bed97a$900b4dd0$c100000a@cfpower.com> Reply-To: "Eric A. Griff" From: "Eric A. Griff" To: References: <199907290403.AAA26642@arutam.inch.com> Subject: Re: Slashdot poll Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:26:43 -0400 Organization: CFPower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Francisco Reyes To: ; Eric A. Griff Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Slashdot poll > On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:45:30 -0400, Eric A. Griff wrote: > > >This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still > >only 4% =( > > > >http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=ostime > > > I just looked at that poll... BSD is NOT above macs. Macs have 7% while > BSD only has 4% > > I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some > serious advocacy. :-) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 28 23:14:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5AE14E52 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:14:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01290; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Selfstyled arrogance? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +0200." <77276D633FA.AAA9A@po03.wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:14:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1286.933228878@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > read this form of selfstyled arrogance: It's not arrogance. As far as they're concerned (and remember that this is SCO talking), the Linux ABI is "good enough" as a standard ABI for the x86 and they're probably right. If you were so motivated to have a different common format, why didn't you join the x86open consortium and contribute something to the effort? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 0:40:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E2E1558B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01911 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Tim G: Press Release [Attention: Business/Technology Editors] Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:41:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1907.933234065@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is interesting. Other ISPs who use FreeBSD, please take heed of this fine example of how to craft a mutually beneficial plug.. :-) - Jordan ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:27:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim G To: jkh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Press Release [Attention: Business/Technology Editors] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, My name is Tim Gaichas and I work for pair Networks in Pittsburgh. We recently sent the press release below to all of the Pittsburgh Media. It might be worth pointing out on your web site or in future press releases that the largest independent Web host in the World is 100% FreeBSD from Web servers to employee work stations. If you have any interest in working together on any PR in the future please let me know. Thanks, Tim G :-> - ------ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Tim Gaichas pair Networks (412) 681-6940 (private number -- DO NOT PUBLISH) fax (412) 681-6945 timg@pair.com http://www.pair.com PGH'S LARGEST IPP HITS NEW MILESTONE pair Networks Now Hosts Over 60,000 Web Sites from 145 Countries Pittsburgh, Penn. -- July, 27, 1999 -- pair Networks, Inc., the World's largest independently owned and operated paid hosting service, today announced it has surpassed the 60,000 Web site milestone. Tens of thousands of businesses in 145 countries utilize pair Networks' hosting services for e-commerce, marketing of products and services, online databases, and the global exchange of information. President and CEO Kevin Martin's business philosophy is to be honest with his customers and provide the absolute most scalable and reliable Web hosting services available anywhere for a fair price. His philosophy has paid off. pair Networks has tripled its customer base every year since 1996 and has become the World's largest independent IPP (Internet Presence Provider) with significant online advertising and positive word of mouth. "We're very pleased with our continued growth," states Martin. "Since our founding in 1995, customer demand has been strong and steady." While most IPP's try to offer every possible service associated with the Internet, Martin decided to focus on high quality, wholesale web hosting from the very beginning. "We wanted to do one thing and do it very well; it has really paid off." Most large scale web hosting companies cater to small and medium size business so that they can provide services to as many customers as possible without having to worry about the integrity of their networks or service upgrades. pair Networks has adopted a more long term view of Web hosting and provides a complete upgrade path for any size business. pair's web servers and network have been engineered to serve a full range of customer's Web sites and are capable of supporting up to tens of millions of hits per day. (hit = 1 web browser request for a Web page, image, or other document transferred over the Internet) "Our network is one of our strongest points," said Martin. "Taking advantage of diverse paths and the private peering of our backbone providers, we're able to consistently provide faster paths to most destinations on the Internet than a typical singly-connected provider." Four full DS-3 circuits provide external connectivity to pair's network, via three different backbone providers (a fourth will be added in October). The local network benefits from fully switched Fast Ethernet and Gigabit Ethernet, and is driven entirely by products from Extreme Networks and Cisco, industry leaders in routing and switching. In addition to a world class network, pair operates only the fastest Pentium II and Pentium III Web servers, which run the stable and powerful FreeBSD operating system in order to ensure maximum uptime and reliability. About pair's Products, Services, and Pricing pair Networks offers true virtual hosting (www.example.com) for as little as $5.95 per month. Complete e-commerce solutions start as low as $20.95 per month. Additionally, pair offers high-end business solutions such as QuickServe, a dedicated hosting program and PairList, a scalable e-mailing list service scheduled to debut by the end of the year. More information about products, services, and pricing can be found on pair Networks' Web site -- http://www.pair.com/ About pair Networks pair Networks, Inc., the World's largest independently owned and operated Web site hosting service, currently hosts over 60,000 unique Web sites and provides service to customers from more than 140 countries. The Web servers in their state of the art data center house more than 2 Terabytes of storage, delivering up to 100 million hits per day to site visitors. pair Networks has positioned itself as the global price / performance leader in Web site hosting, with a special emphasis on absolute reliability and scalability. Thousands of businesses rely on pair Networks for electronic commerce, online databases, and the global exchange of information. Based in Pittsburgh since its founding in 1995, pair Networks currently has 25 employees in Western Pennsylvania and is available on the Internet at http://www.pair.com. pair Networks also hosts many well known web sites such as http://www.tomshardware.com, http://www.simtel.net, http://www.98degrees.com, and http://www.bluesnews.com. # # # For more information please contact: http://www.pair.com/pair/press/ press@pair.com fax +1 412 681-6945 Editor's notes: Please note that "pair" is always spelled with a lowercase "p." Interviews are available for feature stories. pair, QuickServe, and PairList are registered trademarks of pair Networks, Inc. Other company names, brand names and product names may be trademarks of others companies. ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 0:49:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BB615598 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA04213 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:48:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <005c01bed996$a4b32c00$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: References: <199907290403.AAA26642@arutam.inch.com> Subject: Re: Slashdot poll Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:47:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, Your right, and I've had too much caffiene.. =( Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: Francisco Reyes To: ; Eric A. Griff Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Slashdot poll > On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:45:30 -0400, Eric A. Griff wrote: > > >This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still > >only 4% =( > > > >http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=ostime > > > I just looked at that poll... BSD is NOT above macs. Macs have 7% while > BSD only has 4% > > I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some > serious advocacy. :-) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 2:42:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dyson.iquest.net. (iq-ind-dns003-90.iquest.net [198.70.149.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A9615085 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 02:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA57255; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:40:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199907290940.EAA57255@dyson.iquest.net.> Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at "Jul 26, 1999 04:34:19 pm" To: rfotescu@idsrom.com (Radu-Cristian FOTESCU) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:40:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org ('Seth'), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG ('freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG') Reply-To: dyson@dyson.iquest.net From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU said: > > I'm trying to adapt to FreeBSD addicts philosophy 'cause I'm not satisfied > with the way Linux evolves. But I'm coming from Linux, and I develop for > Win32 [hey! I have to live, ok?], so it _might_ be that I see things > somewhat differently. > > Maybe you should _try_ to see things from an "outsider" point of view and > see which are the weak points of FreeBSD propaganda. > Opinion: When leaving the FreeBSD project, and looking from the outside inward, I became aware of some serious problems with the project that I had never previously been aware of. In some cases, problems perceived as 'minor' when I was in core became major in reality, and some 'serious' problems became non-issues for the general user. At this point, I have virtually no time to work on FreeBSD (regrettably), but each of us has to spend time in ways to be advantageous for the contributor or developer. Also, I have full freedom as to which OS to run, and am NOT known to lock myself in to a single solution being the answer to every problem. As it is today, there is little rational reason (except in exceptional cases) to migrate from FreeBSD to Linux, yet relatively more often, moving existing work from Linux to FreeBSD could be advantageous. The *only* strategic advantage for Linux that seems to be hard for FreeBSD to overcome is the destructively strong herding (bandwagon) instinct. FreeBSD still doesn't seem to have the 'magic' that triggers that instinct, and for that reason, it is wonderful that FreeBSD has done so well, given the lack of the frothing-at-the-mouth or pseudo-relgious advocates. Given the criteria of minimal maintenence requirements, easier porting, lots of software already ported, and very good stability, I have found that of the two fairly popular free U**X clones, and the non-free, but source available U**X clone, that FreeBSD still wins in the unix utility and server box type application. The biggest argument against FreeBSD is that it has less effective SMP than the source-available, but NON-free U**X clone (the other predominant FREE U**X clone doesn't effectively have SMP at all yet -- so for that, it is a non-issue.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 5:26:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jdyson.com (iq-ind-dns003-90.iquest.net [198.70.149.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C851547B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 05:26:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@jdyson.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by jdyson.com (8.9.1/8.9.3) id HAA08586; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:25:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199907291225.HAA08586@jdyson.com> Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: from Radu-Cristian FOTESCU at "Jul 29, 99 01:00:28 pm" To: rfotescu@idsrom.com (Radu-Cristian FOTESCU) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:25:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Reply-To: dyson@jdyson.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > the other predominant FREE U**X clone doesn't effectively > > have SMP at all yet -- so for that, it is a non-issue. > > No! Linux DOES HAVE SMP! And in kernel 2.2 they say it's better than in 2.0. > I can't prove it, I don't have multi-processor machines here... > But, Linux isn't free, but is under GPL. Note that I distinguish between code that is licensed with significant strings attached vs. code that is free in a non-discriminatory way for almost all legal purposes. IMO, there are two reasons why GPLed code is often called free: 1) because source availability with usage restrictions or control is sometimes confused with the code being 'free.' 2) Those who advocate GPL licensing often feel justified in taking advantage of a limited definition of the word 'free' in order to forward their cause. As a case in point, I used to normally get the source for the RSX-11M (and RSX-11M+) kernel so that I could fully resysgen the system, and have all info required to produce a driver, ACP or somesuch. Just because I had access to that source, didn't mean that I have the freedom to redistribute built RSX-11M systems without paying money or other item in trade. In the case of DEC, I could sell my binaries that was based upon RSX-11M code, if I sold an RSX11M license to my customer (in essense, I had to make a trade for the right to redistribute binaries of my own work.) In the case of GPL, I can give binaries of my work that is effectively a result of merging (linking) my work into a GPLed work, only if the source code for the entire work is redistributed. In both cases, my freedom to make profit from my value added is constrained by 1) rightfully giving DEC money or 2) rightfully following the GPL and bona-fide offering to redistribute my hard won source code. So, the cost of dealing with DEC is to pay license fees, but I get to keep my source code, optionally giving it to my customer for some money over and above the DEC licensing fees (i.e. my source code is still an object for negotiation.) In the case of GPLed works, the significant redistribution cost is to provide a bona-fide offer to give the source code of my work away, and create another potential competitor who can easily use my work to compete against me. It doesn't make any sense to call either the DEC or GPLed codebase(s) 'free.' In the case of a BSD licensed work, I don't have to agree to anything, other than preserve copyrights and credits (which are indeed common sense minimal etiquette or legal issues) in order to have the right to redistribute works that are a result of the two works (my work, and the 'other' codebase). In essense, it is free for me to redistribute those merged works, and my own additions to the work aren't encumbered. With the BSD license, I still have the freedom to negotiate a price for source code that I invented. Two predominant free OSes would include FreeBSD and NetBSD. The predominant source-available OS, but has "strings attached" is Linux. > > But, stated that this way, Linux weakens Bill Gate's imperium, I don't think > that these "religious wars" between FreeBSD and Linux advocacies should > continue. > It is difficult to deal with 'religious wars', however there are issues of being deceptive (where all camps have their own problems.) IMO, the issue with Microsoft isn't that they have aggressive business practices, but it is that they are willing to inform their userbases (and the mgmt of the userbase and support teams) with very biased and often deceptive information (IMO.) Such deceptiveness has even extended to some interestingly worded (in clinton-esque terms) testimony and bogus demos. Likewise, it is often (but not always) deceptive to call software under GPL restrictions "free." (Almost any usage of the word 'free' when used in association with GPL, requires singnificant amount of qualification to be accurate.) It is quite clear that most usage of the term "free" when describing GPL by those who *understand* the GPL license is for the easy but errant assocation of GPL with 'free', and the marketing advantage associated with the term 'free.' (It is wrong to claim that everyone who uses the term 'free' without qualification when describing the GPL is being dishonest, because mistakes are easy to make and the spin associated with certain historically incorrect association between the terms 'GPL' and 'free' are hard to correct.) In the case of software licenses, the restrictions to freedom are often dependent on how the limitations affect the user and developer bases. By far, the largest numbers of users and developers who use/utilize the GPLed compiler suites are not negatively affected by licensing restrictions associated with simple use of the GPLed compiler. In the case of OS code, which is often used and incorporated into a product, the longer term consequences of basing one's work on GPLed code needs to be seriously considered. In the case of a simple end user, the nature of the GPL seldom has significant negative consequences. However, it is very likely that most of the people who are reading the FreeBSD mailing lists (for example) are NOT simple end users. One major beauty of source available OSes is that there is alot of freedom to adapt or modify and include the OS kernel (or other) code into a product. In the case of an OS kernel, there is alot of opportunity for such modifications (given different hardware environments, different performance tradeoffs, etc.) The GPL causes more than necessary encumberance of new, potentially novel and potentially expensively innovative code added to previously GPL licensed works. It is a fallacy to make the general claim that work added to a preexisting piece of code is necessarily inferior or less important to a project. For example, given a GPLed compiler, those compiler writers who consider adding an innovative algorithm (or subsystem) need to weigh the cost of having to choose to give their work away to potential competitors, EVEN BEFORE THE WORK IS DONE and EVALUATED. There are analoguous situations for microprocessor or embedded developers using kernel code. IMO, calling BSD licensed software "free" is also probably untrue in an absolute sense, but in the scheme of things is licensed under very, very free terms. So, given the various predominant OSes, where source is normally available, the BSDL terms provide the most freedom for those who add significant value to the works themselves. Until a predominant OS becomes freer than those OSes that are distributed under the BSD licensing terms, it is probably okay to call the *BSD OSes 'free.' John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 6: 2: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C7414FD5 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 06:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18388; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:02:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-Reply-To: <199907290403.AAA26642@arutam.inch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some > serious advocacy. :-) I think we shouldn't care about non-scientific polls run by linux-biased sites. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 7:23:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F0F14E4E for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA23686; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:22:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Francisco Reyes , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Jul 1999 16:22:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Fumerola's message of "Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:02:15 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola writes: > On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some > > serious advocacy. :-) > I think we shouldn't care about non-scientific polls run by linux-biased > sites. Don't be so quick to condemn linux-biased sites, especially when they're not linux-biased at all and even run FreeBSD on one of their servers - and especially when they have as much mindshare as Slashdot does. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 7:42: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF2814D3B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA18747; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:40:37 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37A067C8.A053587A@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:40:08 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Francisco Reyes , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > I think we need to put on our advocacy caps and start doing some > > serious advocacy. :-) > > I think we shouldn't care about non-scientific polls run by linux-biased > sites. Whatever. It still shows us below *Mac* users. Any reason why a Mac user would be any more likely to read slashdot than a *BSD user? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 8:14:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3B014C8F for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18646; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:14:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Francisco Reyes , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29 Jul 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Don't be so quick to condemn linux-biased sites, especially when > they're not linux-biased at all and even run FreeBSD on one of their > servers - and especially when they have as much mindshare as Slashdot > does. I just remember on numerous occasions where /. has rejected articles of FreeBSD importance, while posting any page that has a picture of a penguin and the word "kewl" in it. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 8:16:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B6C14D3B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18663; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:17:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Francisco Reyes , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-Reply-To: <37A067C8.A053587A@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > I think we shouldn't care about non-scientific polls run by linux-biased > > sites. > > Whatever. It still shows us below *Mac* users. Any reason why a Mac > user would be any more likely to read slashdot than a *BSD user? Because Mac users live in the same dream world that Linux users do? /me hides. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 8:23:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FA214C8F for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA25113; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:23:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Francisco Reyes , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Eric A. Griff" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Jul 1999 17:23:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Fumerola's message of "Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:14:42 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola writes: > I just remember on numerous occasions where /. has rejected articles of > FreeBSD importance, while posting any page that has a picture of a penguin > and the word "kewl" in it. I just remember on numerous occasions where /. have expressed a wish for more BSD content, They can't post BSD content if we don't provide any. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 9: 4:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BC914E7C for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA06373; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:02:52 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37A07B0E.F3AD5358@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:02:22 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Slashdot poll References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > > Whatever. It still shows us below *Mac* users. Any reason why a Mac > > user would be any more likely to read slashdot than a *BSD user? > > Because Mac users live in the same dream world that Linux users do? I'm afraid both Mac and Linux users would happily agree with you... -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Is it true that you're a millionaire's son who never worked a day in your life?" "Yeah, I guess so." "Lemme tell you, son, you ain't missed a thing." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 9:49: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABCE155D3 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.182]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAC2576; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:48:46 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA78303; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:34:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:34:22 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Selfstyled arrogance? Message-ID: <19990729183422.A78296@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <77276D633FA.AAA9A@po03.wxs.nl> <1286.933228878@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <1286.933228878@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Jul 28, 1999 at 11:14:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) [990729 10:20]: > > read this form of selfstyled arrogance: > > It's not arrogance. As far as they're concerned (and remember that > this is SCO talking), the Linux ABI is "good enough" as a standard ABI > for the x86 and they're probably right. If you were so motivated to > have a different common format, why didn't you join the x86open > consortium and contribute something to the effort? :) Because I didn't know about it at that time So I am instead focusing my time now on other projects =) But the page displays all those participants (including Net and Free) and then happily declares that they _all_ chose the Linux ELF format. [note: that's how I read it] I for one, cannot remember seeing a post on any FreeBSD list about this. Then again, I am only in this ballgame for about a year now, so what do I know? [Note: that's the Unix ballgame, and in particular FreeBSD] -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 12: 6: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D5714D37 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17135; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:04:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:04:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "Eric A. Griff" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-Reply-To: <035a01bed974$ceb450f0$c100000a@cfpower.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, Eric A. Griff wrote: > This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still > only 4% =( I'm willing to bet that you'd get 4% for linux if the poll was on daemonnews, freebsdrocks, freebsdzine, etc. This is simply and example of why self-selection should never be allowed for poll participation if you want any accuracry at all. It means less than nothing. It's misleading. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 12:13: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5054155DD for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id PAA21287; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma021040; Thu, 29 Jul 99 15:12:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:11:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-reply-to: To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If someone wants to write a perl script that will stuff the ballot box, I'd be happy to run it :) SB On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, Eric A. Griff wrote: > > > This is a more specific link, and *BSD has moved up above macs, but still > > only 4% =( > > I'm willing to bet that you'd get 4% for linux if the poll was on > daemonnews, freebsdrocks, freebsdzine, etc. > > This is simply and example of why self-selection should never be > allowed for poll participation if you want any accuracry at all. It means > less than nothing. It's misleading. > > Adrian > -- > [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 12:47:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.141.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05952150E6 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05235; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:51:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: dragon.ham.muohio.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Howard X-Sender: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu To: Seth Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , "Eric A. Griff" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Seth wrote: > If someone wants to write a perl script that will stuff the ballot box, > I'd be happy to run it :) I tried that by hand. It keeps track of who you are and your IP. I know it is still possible, you'll just have to try harder. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 16:58:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from farkas.caam.rice.edu (farkas.caam.rice.edu [128.42.17.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE881565B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougm@farkas.caam.rice.edu) Received: (from dougm@localhost) by farkas.caam.rice.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10677; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:58:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:58:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907292358.SAA10677@farkas.caam.rice.edu> From: Doug Moore To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Linux gets credit for Yahoo's Apache Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, a column on the thestreet.com on July 27 by Jim Seymour, titled "Opportunity Ahead: Donning the Red Hat, Part 2" contains the following misinformation: "Consider, for example, that Yahoo! (YHOO:Nasdaq), probably the highest-traffic Web site in the world, runs on Apache server-software running atop Linux." Seymour has tried to have this misinformation corrected. He writes today: "Hmmm. Just checked, and you're right. Odd, because I gave 'em the correction yesterday afternoon, almost immediately after the col appeared...and these usually go up right away." "Thanks for staying on top of this. I'll ping 'em again...." So far, though, the misinformation is still out there. I figured you FreeBSD advocates would like to know about Linux getting the credit that FreeBSD deserves. The article is at http://www.thestreet.com/comment/techsavvy/766561.html a subscription is required. Doug Moore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 29 20:17:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from genesis.setjmp.net (mail.discountcruise.com [208.13.245.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995DE1500B for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:17:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Received: from crash (eric@[10.0.0.193]) by genesis.setjmp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA08121 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:17:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eric@setjmp.com) Message-ID: <012001beda39$fb84fba0$c100000a@cfpower.com> From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Subject: Fw: Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:16:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric A. Griff To: ; Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:14 PM > Hi folks, just thought I'd submit this little correction to > http://www.thestreet.com/comment/techsavvy/766561.html > > > But Linux, as a Unix derivative, has native scalability of a very high > order. (Consider, for example, that Yahoo! (YHOO:Nasdaq), probably the > highest-traffic Web site in the world, runs on Apache server-software > running atop Linux.) Red Hat's Linux is highly scalable. > > > Is incurrect. Linux is a "Unix Like", and was a complete floor up design, > even though it is modeled after Unix. Unix derivatives are FreeBSD, NetBSD, > OpenBSD, SCO Unix, Solaris, AT&T Unix System V, among others. These are > originated from source code that have maybe billions of hours of uptime over > the past 30 years. Linux has about 7. > > Also, Yahoo is running Apache atop FreeBSD. > > Links: > http://www.freebsdmall.com/newsletter1/yahoo_and_freebsd.phtml > > Thank you for your minute, > > Eric A. Griff , > setjmp Software Your source for custom > 181 Genesee Street Software Solutions. > Suite 504 http://www.setjmp.com/ > Utica, NY 13501 > Office: (315) 734-1668 Extension 205 > Home: (315) 495-2385 (seldom) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 0:35:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2A5156DC for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:35:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA47236; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:33:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Selfstyled arrogance? References: <77276D633FA.AAA9A@po03.wxs.nl> <1286.933228878@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990729183422.A78296@daemon.ninth-circle.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 30 Jul 1999 09:33:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai's message of "Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:34:22 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > But the page displays all those participants (including Net and Free) and > then happily declares that they _all_ chose the Linux ELF format. [note: > that's how I read it] Note that they don't say *who* participated, only that they had "someone from the FreeBSD community" or some such wording. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 9:48: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E69151C3 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CB5472EE1A; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1280 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Displaying it proudly! - keeping the credit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would like to announce another well visited site that has converted to FreeBSD and displaying it proudly. GirlFriends and On Our Backs Magazine http://www.gfriends.com/ =20 It has become standard fare for me to ask (repeetedly if needed) that anyo= ne I setup with FreeBSD display the FreeBSD logo on their homepage or credits pa= ge. I ask everyone reading this to make an effort or perhaps another try and gett= ing people whom you know use FreeBSD to display some simble of it on their page= s to make sure it is put infront of those visiting to make the name more well kn= own and to keep others from taking the credit away so easily! Nicole =20 |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.nmhtech.com/ nicole@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org/ --------------------(((---(((----------------------- - Powered by FreeBSD - - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - -- Systems Networking, Administration, Consulting -- nicole@nmhtech.com - www.nmhtech.com * Custom Solutions for an non-standard world * ------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 19:13:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcon.com.au (firewall.bbcon.com.au [203.28.19.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AD014E21 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsutton@bbcon.com.au) Received: from office.bbcon.com.au (stargate [10.0.0.1]) by bbcon.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA03159; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:15:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jsutton@bbcon.com.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by office.bbcon.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA27530; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:14:52 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: stargate.home: jsutton owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:14:51 +1000 (EST) From: Joel Sutton X-Sender: jsutton@stargate.home To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: Victorias FreeBSD User Group Subject: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've been working on a presentation based on the main web pages and I'd really like to get some feedback from the "masters" of advocacy (;->). You can download it from: http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd.ppt It's around 230k in size. If there is sufficient demand I can put up the power point viewer as well but that's bumps it up to around 2 meg. Enjoy. Cheers, Joel... --- Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting Phone: (0409) 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia Email: jsutton@bbcon.com.au | http://www.bbcon.com.au/ VicFUG Webmaster/Acting President | http://www.vicfug.au.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 19:28:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from info.isinet.com (mail2.isinet.com [199.4.155.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6092E14D95 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam.turoff@isinet.com) Received: (qmail 4397 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 02:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO isinet.com) (aturoff@10.10.10.221) by info.isinet.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 02:21:13 -0000 Message-ID: <37A25F7A.766C6200@isinet.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:29:14 -0400 From: Adam Turoff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joel Sutton Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joel Sutton wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've been working on a presentation based on the main web pages and I'd > really like to get some feedback from the "masters" of advocacy (;->). You > can download it from: > > http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd.ppt > > It's around 230k in size. If there is sufficient demand I can put up the > power point viewer as well but that's bumps it up to around 2 meg. Er, can you convert it into a format that's more FreeBSD friendly? Like HTML? -- Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 19:47:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD0714FD8 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brooks@one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from localhost (brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16944; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: brooks@one-eyed-alien.net X-Authentication-Warning: orion.ac.hmc.edu: brdavis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu To: Joel Sutton Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Victorias FreeBSD User Group Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > I've been working on a presentation based on the main web pages and I'd > really like to get some feedback from the "masters" of advocacy (;->). You > can download it from: > > http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd.ppt It looks good on my FreeBSD laptop running Star Office 5.1 (If you can manage to present it that way, it would be a good selling point). The only Star Office related problems I see are that the text boxes at the top with the subtest (i.e. "- Cutting Edge Features...") should be lengthened to they don't get wrapped incorrectly in Star Office (it uses slightly larger fonts then windows seems to) and something about the "'" character you are using is causing it to not show up. I that that's the same problem that causes them to appear as "?"s in netscape. Content wise, you might want to remove the "Bounce Buffers" bullet since I've seen some people comment that they aren't much of a feature today. Also, you might want to mention just how much data ftp.cdrom.com servers; though I guess that doesn't have to be on the slide. All in all, a good presentation. You might want to see about distiling it to PDF if you have the capacity localy. -- Brooks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 19:59: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcon.com.au (firewall.bbcon.com.au [203.28.19.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B61414DF6 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsutton@bbcon.com.au) Received: from office.bbcon.com.au (stargate [10.0.0.1]) by bbcon.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA03212; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:59:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jsutton@bbcon.com.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by office.bbcon.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA27788; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:59:04 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: stargate.home: jsutton owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:59:04 +1000 (EST) From: Joel Sutton X-Sender: jsutton@stargate.home Reply-To: Joel Sutton To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: Victorias FreeBSD User Group Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those of you that are "windoze impaired" try: http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd/ Sorry, I should have thought of this before. Of course, you won't see the special effects and some of the graphics colours went a bit funny. However, my intention is that this presentation is targeted towards the Windows OS user who wants to know more about FreeBSD. Can StarOffice, ApplixWare or Wordperfect import a PowerPoint97 presentation? Thanks, Joel... On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working on a presentation based on the main web pages and I'd > really like to get some feedback from the "masters" of advocacy (;->). You > can download it from: > > http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd.ppt > > It's around 230k in size. If there is sufficient demand I can put up the > power point viewer as well but that's bumps it up to around 2 meg. > > Enjoy. > > Cheers, Joel... > > --- > Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting > Phone: (0409) 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia > Email: jsutton@bbcon.com.au | http://www.bbcon.com.au/ > VicFUG Webmaster/Acting President | http://www.vicfug.au.freebsd.org/ > --- Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting Phone: (0409) 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia Email: jsutton@bbcon.com.au | http://www.bbcon.com.au/ VicFUG Webmaster/Acting President | http://www.vicfug.au.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 20: 0: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594C714DF6 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA74742; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:07:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199907310307.NAA74742@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation In-Reply-To: from Joel Sutton at "Jul 31, 1999 12:59:04 pm" To: jsutton@bbcon.com.au (Joel Sutton) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:07:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, general@vicfug.au.freebsd.org (Victorias FreeBSD User Group) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joel Sutton wrote: > For those of you that are "windoze impaired" try: Ahem, don't you mean "windoze immune", so something less degrading? 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 30 21: 2:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wenet.net (pm3-18.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603D814D2A for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by wenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA50449; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Joel Sutton Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Victorias FreeBSD User Group Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 31 Jul 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > Can StarOffice, ApplixWare or Wordperfect import a PowerPoint97 > presentation? Why not use KOffice? It's free, and the PowerPoint like app works pretty well from what I've heard (twas used at a few major KDE/Linux shindigs in Germany from what I've heard). And yes, it works w/ FreeBSD :) - alex You wear guilt, like shackles on your feet, Like a halo in reverse - Depeche Mode To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 31 15:41:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA0714E2B for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (cmcurtin@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11525; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA10182; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:38:39 -0400 (EDT) To: Joel Sutton Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Victorias FreeBSD User Group Subject: Re: FreeBSD Powerpoint Presentation References: X-Face: L"IcL.b%SDN]0Kql2b`e.}+i05V9fi\yX#H1+Xl)3!+n/3?5`%-SA-HDgPk9uTk<3dv^J5DCgal)-E{`zN#*o6F|y>r)\< Date: 31 Jul 1999 18:38:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: Joel Sutton's message of "Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:14:51 +1000 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "20 Minutes to Nikko" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:14:51 +1000 (EST), Joel Sutton said: Joel> http://www.bbcon.com.au/freebsd.ppt *boggle*. (I see that you've got a web version up now. Thanks!) (This is almost as bad as SAMS's "Unix Unleashed, Internet Edition" being written in Word, with Jordan and I being the only non-Word-using holdouts. On the other hand, this is advocacy, and one must speak the native language of the proles if one wishes to address them in a way that makes them feel most comfortable... Compare 1Cor9:22. :-) -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message