From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 1:37:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B83A14C2C for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 01:36:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 15297 invoked by alias); 7 Mar 1999 09:36:31 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 15266 invoked by uid 0); 7 Mar 1999 09:36:30 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 09:36:30 -0000 Message-ID: <36E2489F.D75CC0CA@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 01:36:31 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: lynch@rush.net, paulg@interlog.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what's in a name? References: <199903061735.KAA01139@usr06.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >Peter Philippe and I were talking about having a "MyBSD" thing going, but > > >it was when we were disgruntled about support being dropped when it came > > >to 2.2.8-STABLE stuff. > > > > How about Freenix? Or has that one been taken/suggested already? > > The reason this question keeps raising its ugly head is the negative > marketing value of the "Free" in "FreeBSD". It's probably not go > over well in "Freenix", either. > > I think "Mustard" might be best. I can see it now: > > "Get a clue: run Mustard Kernel in the Library with an IBM PC". No no no, it was the Plum coloured iMac.... I don't like the name because it's realtively long in comparison to Linux. That's my arguement with Freenix, it's a quick-to-say name. But I guess that's just spitting in a bitbucket... I guess if I got really ambitious (or bored) I could roll my own dist CDs and target them to a specific group, say, Windoze refugees. KDE, Mozilla, easier-to-use installer and a small book teaching basic and intermediate skills. The license would permit me to do this, right? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 3:32:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F299214CF4 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:32:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 20989 invoked by alias); 7 Mar 1999 11:32:33 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 20960 invoked by uid 0); 7 Mar 1999 11:32:33 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 11:32:33 -0000 Message-ID: <36E263D2.FD39DD56@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 03:32:34 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Perel Cc: jack , Wes Peters , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and check out my.sig) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel wrote: > On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, jack wrote: > > On Mar 5 Wes Peters wrote: > > > What's the likelihood of keeping a Win95/Win98 machine up for 49.7 > > > days in the first place? > > > > Perhaps it could be done with no programs launched at startup, no > > mouse, no keyboard, no network connection, no serial or parallel > > port connections, no USB connections, no APM, and no screen > > saver? > > Nope - Windows gets all confused if you don't launch a myraid of > useless things on startup. The only way to keep windows from crashing is > encasing the machine in concrete and sending it to the bottom of the ocean. > If it is not running, it's not going to crash, now is it..? The machine used for bookkeeping and taxes has no modem, no sound, no NIC... not even a fancy video card, I built it using quality parts. It runs an updated Windoze Ninety-Hate and is very stable in Windows-relative terms. No software other than Quickbooks, Quattro Pro, and Quicken. The longest it's run without a fault of any kind is one day, but it's stayed running since Feb 12 without needing a reset. Given its nature that's pretty damned impressive. (yeah, I know but hey, know your enemy, right?) O Great Gods of -Hackers, forgive this humble wretch this terrible sin and permit me once more to walk with you amongst the heavens... :-) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 4:18:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1060B14C24 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.165]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4FDE; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:18:07 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26081; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:19:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903061812.LAA03755@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:19:09 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? Cc: eagle@phc.igs.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 06-Mar-99 Terry Lambert wrote: >> > I think that it's about time that a good GUI toolkit for X be >> > developed and released under the two-clause BSD license, both so >> > that developers like myself can release software with a clean >> > conscience, knowing that's *free* and completely unencumbered, not >> > just "Open Source(r)", and to encourage commercial developers to port >> > their software to Unix/X11, as they would not have to purchase a Motif >> > or Qt license, use some LGPLed library, or write their own toolkit from >> > scratch. >> >> Very good points. >> >> > Would anyone here be interested in participating in such a project by >> > leading it, hosting it, writing code for it, helping to design it, or >> > in any other way? >> >> Leading such a project would be better off in hands like someone as >> Terry. > > I already have a Motif clone partially completed. It runs up through > chapter 4 in the Young book, and all O'Reilly examples, but is a hell > of a long way from Mozilla. Motif is not what we are pursuing afaik. Going that alley might be a dead way since most useful software (IMHO) comes from freeware/opensource programmers who persue other toolkits for their programs and given a lenient license such as the BSD license would encourage commercial companies to use it instead of Motif. Conditions towards reaching such a goal would offcourse include writing good documentation, ensure clean and consistent code (hence the BSD camps would be better suited for it IMHO) and make is slick, fast and usable ;) >> I would be happy to donate my already sparse free time on such a project >> wherever possible. > > I was always reluctant to pursue it because the whole "look and feel" > issue for applications. I think that the "look and feel" should be > embedded in the window manager, and that the clients should make > higher level requests, like "create a popup list box" or "Add a > button with the label 'OK'" (this has been my opinion since at least > 1988). > > I actually believe that the future lies with things like "VNC": VNC looks very interesting, but at the moment we were just talking about X UI toolkits a la GDk/GTk+/glib, Qt, XForms, and a bunch of others. That was what Brian was aiming for and for which I was trying to gather ideas and such. What are ye ideas on a `common' X11 GUI toolkit? VNC is something to pursue in the also not too distant future IMHO. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 4:48:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cs1.cityscope.net (cs1.cityscope.net [206.222.183.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 213C414CC4; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from cityscope.net (194.cityscope.net [209.16.49.194]) by cs1.cityscope.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA09732; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 06:47:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36E2757C.22E80E07@cityscope.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 06:47:56 -0600 From: Ingrid Kast Fuller Reply-To: ingrid@cityscope.net Organization: CityScope Net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what's in a name? References: <199903032046.MAA09089@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ....latest literature on FreeBSD.... There's only ONE book in town for FreeBSD....while it is a VERY thorough book and one I resell, it would be nice to see MORE writers writing for FreeBSD! The more books, articles written, user groups, etc... will help us get more exposure. I believe that EACH user group needs to have a Publicity/Advertising chairman and that person is in charge of sending FreeBSD news and press releases to as many media people as possible! Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Perhaps if have a a SWAT press team to attack or educate those lazy > reporters they may think twice about only writing about L****. > > SWAT press team come equip with the latest literature on FreeBSD and > a standard treatise on BSD vs. GPL . > > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- *********************************************************** Ingrid Kast Fuller (ingrid@cityscope.net) CityScope Computer Services Since 1984 CityScope Net (http://www.cityscope.net) 1(713)477-6161 109 West Southmore, Pasadena, TX 77502-1001 *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 5:27:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D096114C2D for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 05:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id OAA18343 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:26:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id DA6ED883B; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:05:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:05:19 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] Message-ID: <19990307130519.C36028@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990306202025.A32343@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 10:51:51PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5120 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Pat Lynch: > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) Well, we trusted Our Exalted Leader at that time :-) [don't hit me Jordan, please] -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 5:28: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9FE14C45 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 05:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id OAA18346 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:27:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 3498D883B; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:51:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:51:26 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what's in a name? Message-ID: <19990307135126.A37351@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199903061735.KAA01139@usr06.primenet.com> <36E2489F.D75CC0CA@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <36E2489F.D75CC0CA@uswest.net>; from Nocturne on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 01:36:31AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5120 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Nocturne: > to Linux. That's my arguement with Freenix, it's a quick-to-say > name. But I guess that's just spitting in a bitbucket... Freenix is already used (and has been for many years) although not as an operating system name. "Freenix", as I coined it back in '93 although it was "rediscovered" recently by USENIX, is a generic name for free UNIX systems. This is the name of an informal french free UNIX users group (look at my sig & address). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 7:25:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0B314CE7 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.165]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAAD1C; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:25:15 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31996; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:26:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903070641.BAA02704@eagle.phc.igs.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:26:17 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: eagle@phc.igs.net Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, tlambert@primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 07-Mar-99 eagle@phc.igs.net wrote: > Terry Lambert was seen writing: > >> I actually believe that the future lies with things like "VNC": >> >> http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ >> >> >> Because VNC can replicate frame buffer contents over a network >> (a simplified description, to be sure), you can get rid of most >> of the overhead of X11 by declaring that your network transport >> is a replication mechanism of some kind. >> > I fail to see how this solves the issue at hand, with x library's as > this kind of implementation would have to replace x, destroying the > compatibility with existing software in the proccess. While vnc's frame > buffer replication ideas are indeed interesting, it goes nowhere to > solving the problem that we do have. > > that is quite simply a stable usefull x toolkit, I do agree that mofif > is dead, and that work on it would be aproaching useless though. Motif is dead, but no viable alternative has come forth with regard to usability, license and documentation. GTk+ attempts to, but fails in the rapid Linux bazaar style chaotic way of coding (if anyone of you followed the mailinglists there as well, ye know what I mean). This is a niche we could fill. > So that leaves us with the prospect of designing and implementing a new > gui toolkit. Which was what Brian and myself were aiming at as far as I understood. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 7:26:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shattered.disturbed.net (shattered.disturbed.net [192.139.81.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A851314BE0 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from veers@disturbed.net) Received: from shattered.disturbed.net ([192.139.81.180]:10507 "EHLO shattered" ident: "IDENT-NONSENSE") by disturbed.net with ESMTP id <61622-273>; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:27:54 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Perel To: Nocturne Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and check out my.sig) In-Reply-To: <36E263D2.FD39DD56@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Nocturne wrote: > > Nope - Windows gets all confused if you don't launch a myraid of > > useless things on startup. The only way to keep windows from crashing is > > encasing the machine in concrete and sending it to the bottom of the ocean. > > If it is not running, it's not going to crash, now is it..? > > The machine used for bookkeeping and taxes has no modem, no sound, > no NIC... not even a fancy video card, I built it using quality > parts. It runs an updated Windoze Ninety-Hate and is very stable > in Windows-relative terms. No software other than Quickbooks, > Quattro Pro, and Quicken. The longest it's run without a fault of > any kind is one day, but it's stayed running since Feb 12 without > needing a reset. Given its nature that's pretty damned impressive. A real hacker would write his own accounting system though, no need for such a cop out - Q* money programs are not to be trusted! Now, mind you, staying up for the better part of a month IS impressive - now you have to be worried about the 49.7 day bug. Just PRAY that the box will not die on you on the .6th hour of hte 47th day... What you may want to do is (carefully) move the computer to the center of the floor. Get a big red crayon, and draw a pentagram around it. Next, candles - red is preferred but not required. Just make sure they are the long lasting kind - it'd be a real shame if the computer outlives the candles. Once you've done all that, walk away and lock the door. Don't come back until the 49.7th day of operation. If all goes well the machine will have transformed into a mutant of Windoze, OS/2 and CP/M. That is the perfect time to launch a preemptive strike and destroy it. Am I getting ahead of myself here? :-) Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081 alexp@iplink.net -=- (work) veers@disturbed.net -=- (play) Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD == The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 10: 7:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A8D14CA3 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:07:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA8857; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:05:29 -0500 Message-ID: <36E2B352.6C03AF1A@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:11:46 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am not sure a BSD license is incompatible with QPL: The restrictions are very unusual, but it says you must redistribute the sources fpr the application (which most BSD licensed software I use do) and to make it possible for everyone to redistribute it (which we do). I assume if you don't want to redistribute the sources, as the BSD license permits, it only means you have to buy a Qt license that lets you do it. I do agree with the idea that we should have a free object oriented GUI. I thought about it some time ago, but there are sufficient (almost-free) GUIs around (Just remembered I have to port UIT one of these days). Besides, I think I'll be using Modula-3 or Python from now on :-) cheers, Pedro. Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > > Well, Troll Tech just unveiled version 1.0 of their QPL (Qt Public > License) for Qt Free Edition, and after a quick read-over, I don't think > it's compatible with BSD-licensed software. Excerpt: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 6. You may develop application programs, reusable components and other > software items that link with the original or modified versions of the > Software. These items, when distributed, are subject to the following > requirements: > > a. You must ensure that all recipients of machine-executable forms of > these items are also able to receive and use the complete > machine-readable source code to the items without any charge beyond the > costs of data transfer. > > b. You must explicitly license all recipients of your items to use and > re-distribute original and modified versions of the items in both > machine-executable and source code forms. The recipients must be able > to do so without any charges whatsoever, and they must be able to > re-distribute to anyone they choose. > > c. If the items are not available to the general public, and the > initial developer of the Software requests a copy of the items, then > you must supply one. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > First and foremost, this is invalid. One cannot assert a copyright on an > API, and therefore they cannot declare that anything that will link with > their library falls under their license. > > The previous clause, however, states ("Software" == Qt): > > 5. You may use the original or modified versions of the Software to > compile, link and run application programs legally developed by you > or by others. > > If one takes the phrase 'legally developed' to mean 'compliant with section > 6', this means that BSD-licensed software cannot be linked with Qt, but > GPLed software can. This, well, sucks. Basically, if one wants to > distribute software linked with Qt, or that the end-user can legally link > with Qt upon compiling, it must be released under a GPL-like license. > > So... > > I think that it's about time that a good GUI toolkit for X be developed > and released under the two-clause BSD license, both so that developers > like myself can release software with a clean conscience, knowing that's > *free* and completely unencumbered, not just "Open Source(r)", and to > encourage commercial developers to port their software to Unix/X11, as > they would not have to purchase a Motif or Qt license, use some LGPLed > library, or write their own toolkit from scratch. > > Would anyone here be interested in participating in such a project by > leading it, hosting it, writing code for it, helping to design it, or in > any other way? > > -- > Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org > > daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS > 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 10:55:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2FA14D32 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA57319; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Ollivier Robert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:05:19 +0100." <19990307130519.C36028@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:54:49 -0800 Message-ID: <57315.920832889@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be wanting to eat a big dinner together at this year's USENIX, and I'm in the fortunate position of being able to "appoint" anybody I like as dinner coordinator simply by telling everyone who asks me about it "oh, don't talk to me, I'm not organizing that - talk to Ollivier and Pat; they're the dinner coordinators this year!" Whether you agree to this in advance or not will be irrelevant if I tell enough people; you'll simply be stuck with the job. So watch it! :-) - Jordan > According to Pat Lynch: > > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) > > Well, we trusted Our Exalted Leader at that time :-) > > [don't hit me Jordan, please] > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.f r > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 11: 1:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440C414C87 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:01:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA26355; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:00:24 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:00:24 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] In-Reply-To: <57315.920832889@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I > wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last > one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be > wanting to eat a big dinner together at this year's USENIX, and I'm in > the fortunate position of being able to "appoint" anybody I like as > dinner coordinator simply by telling everyone who asks me about it > "oh, don't talk to me, I'm not organizing that - talk to Ollivier and > Pat; they're the dinner coordinators this year!" > > Whether you agree to this in advance or not will be irrelevant if I > tell enough people; you'll simply be stuck with the job. So watch it! > :-) > > - Jordan A new form of government - governing by intimation (of telling everybody it is you who is in charge and should be blamed) Cute 8-) Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 12: 2:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24C314BF4; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:02:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29432; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd029359; Sun Mar 7 13:39:10 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23915; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:01:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903072001.NAA23915@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: what's in a name? To: dpilgrim@uswest.net (Nocturne) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:01:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, lynch@rush.net, paulg@interlog.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36E2489F.D75CC0CA@uswest.net> from "Nocturne" at Mar 7, 99 01:36:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I guess if I got really ambitious (or bored) I could roll my own > dist CDs and target them to a specific group, say, Windoze > refugees. KDE, Mozilla, easier-to-use installer and a small book > teaching basic and intermediate skills. The license would permit > me to do this, right? Yes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 13:28: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1029F152ED for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA31362; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:25:29 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:25:29 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: eagle@phc.igs.net Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, asmodai@wxs.nl, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? Message-ID: <19990307232529.B47536@shale.csir.co.za> References: <199903061812.LAA03755@usr06.primenet.com> <199903070641.BAA02704@eagle.phc.igs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199903070641.BAA02704@eagle.phc.igs.net>; from eagle@phc.igs.net on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 01:41:37AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 01:41:37AM -0500, eagle@phc.igs.net wrote: > Terry Lambert was seen writing: > > I actually believe that the future lies with things like "VNC": > > > > http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ > > > > Because VNC can replicate frame buffer contents over a network > > (a simplified description, to be sure), you can get rid of most > > of the overhead of X11 by declaring that your network transport > > is a replication mechanism of some kind. > > > > [snip] > > I fail to see how this solves the issue at hand, with x library's as > this kind of implementation would have to replace x, destroying the > compatibility with existing software in the proccess. While vnc's frame > buffer replication ideas are indeed interesting, it goes nowhere to > solving the problem that we do have. > > that is quite simply a stable usefull x toolkit, I do agree that mofif > is dead, and that work on it would be aproaching useless though. > > So that leaves us with the prospect of designing and implementing a new > gui toolkit. I don't know if anyone has been watching the going on's over at Mozilla.org? I'm very interested in their XPToolkit. It's basically an XML based toolkit which will use their new layout engine to render the entire application. At the moment the Unix version uses GTK+, but with a little work it could use XLib directly. Also, they want to use their own widget's (which they already have/have too implement for HTML forms) in place of platform native widgets if possible. I think the idea of an XML based toolkit, with style sheets, has a lot of merit. I'm not saying that Mozilla.org's (Netscapes) implemtation is right - it's the concept of using an SGML/XML based representation which I like. This makes the toolkit very cross platform, allows for lots of neat tricks in terms language support, disability support and can be made very light weight on handhelds... not to mention the "benefits" of style sheets for themeing the desktop. To stick my neck out into an area where I'm not an expert... My view of the future of GUIs on Unix is that X windows will be split into two parts: a display driver (which provides direct hardware access + OpenGL), and might be a kernel module, and a X server process (with GLX) which uses that display driver. However, other native applications could have direct access to the display driver. These might include an X server aware window manager, 3D accelarated games and an XML/HTML layout engine. If you're going to start coding a toolkit from scratch (with a BSD licence), then writing an XML language and a layout engine (which used X or a direct display driver - and could uses Win32 or Mac...) might be a viable option. There are many examples of layout engines floating around, not the least of which is Mozilla.org's (which is under a half free licence - at least it has no poison pill). This doesn't buy you anything as an X toolkit to replace that used by existing applications... If this is the desired path a free clone of GTK+ would be a good thing. Just my 2c. -Jeremy -- | "I could be anything I wanted to, but one things true --+-- Never gonna be as big as Jesus, never gonna hold the world in my hand | Never gonna be as big as Jesus, never gonna build a promised land | But that's, that's all right, OK with me..." -Audio Adrenaline To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 13:45:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE76914DDC for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@scratch.demon.co.uk) Received: from [212.228.22.156] (helo=franklin.matlink) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10JlLy-0004Xv-0A; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:44:57 +0000 Received: (from tim@localhost) by franklin.matlink (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00531; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:43:00 GMT (envelope-from tim) Message-Id: <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:41:40 +0000 (GMT) From: tim@scratch.demon.co.uk Subject: vinum again To: ludwigp@bigfoot.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Cheers to Ludwig for the help its the newfs bit that was giving me a headache, mounted ok but on reboot put me single user as could not mount vinum drive I had to vinum create configfile and then mount it manually. This could be a problem with the name or location of my config file is there a certain name or place for these ? Another thing the disks were all on the same drive due to my testing vinum with my only free space until I know more about what I am doing then the plan gets grander ! Question: The concat form I thought does not do mirroring as it fills each subdisk in turn - is this correct ? If not then how to get it mirroring would that be by having more than one plex on the volume ? Do you use raid or raid-5, if so does it affect performance much ? What I really want to do sounds simular to your setup usr and var being mirrored and I want to have /home/data in a form whereby as and when it is needed I can add more subdisks or plexes whichever would be appropriate to extend the availiable space, rather than new disk, and copy accross. Thanks again and to all who aid me here. -- Tim. ==== I'd rather boot Bill Gates than Windows any day ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 14:43:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inet.chip-web.com (c1003518-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.82.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A61814D89 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:43:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: (qmail 16709 invoked from network); 7 Mar 1999 22:42:52 -0000 Received: from speedy.chip-web.com (HELO speedy) (172.16.1.1) by inet.chip-web.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 22:42:52 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail-r X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 14:42:50 -0800 To: tim@scratch.demon.co.uk From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: vinum again Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:41 PM 3/7/99 , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk wrote: >its the newfs bit that was giving me a headache, mounted ok but on >reboot put me single user as could not mount vinum drive It should have mounted your vinum volume automatically if you put your vinum drive/slice in your rc.conf. Does your rc.conf have a vinum_drives option somewhere? What was the error message? >I had to vinum create configfile and then mount it manually. What do you mean, exactly? Could you give details of your configfile? What did you do to mount it? >This could be a problem with the name or location of my config file is >there a certain name or place for these ? I'm not sure what you're referring to. The vinum config file is only needed once, when you do the 'create' command. After that, you just do 'vinum /dev/somedrive' where somedrive is a drive on which you have vinum (like /dev/wd1 or /dev/wd0s1h). >Question: > >The concat form I thought does not do mirroring as it fills each >subdisk in turn - is this correct ? Right. Concat combines multiple vinum subdisks into one big volume. >If not then how to get it mirroring would that be by having more than >one plex on the volume ? Exactly. I have volume usr, plex usr.p0 and usr.p1, subdisks usr.p0.s0 and usr.p1.s0. Ditto for volume var. >Do you use raid or raid-5, if so does it affect performance much ? I don't know which RAID I'm using. Drive mirroring is either 1 or 0. I don't have hard performance numbers. If you understand how the different RAID configuration works, you can kind of reason which will be a better performer and which will be more resilient to drives dying. >What I really want to do sounds simular to your setup usr and var being >mirrored and I want to have /home/data in a form whereby as and when it >is needed I can add more subdisks or plexes whichever would be >appropriate to extend the availiable space, rather than new disk, and >copy accross. So you'd have usr and var volumes (or maybe all under usr. if you don't have a compelling reason for a separate var, you probably shouldn't have one) with 2 plexes, and /home/data in one plex with multiple subdisks. --Ludwig Pummer ( ludwigp@bigfoot.com ) ICQ UIN: 692441 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 15:25:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D1E14C0E for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13290; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd013271; Sun Mar 7 16:25:34 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23208; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:25:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903072325.QAA23208@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? To: reg@shale.csir.co.za (Jeremy Lea) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:25:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eagle@phc.igs.net, tlambert@primenet.com, asmodai@wxs.nl, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990307232529.B47536@shale.csir.co.za> from "Jeremy Lea" at Mar 7, 99 11:25:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I want to respond more in depth to this thread, so I've held back; but I need to ask a clarifying question, and then make a comment on track with my previously stated general thesis: > I think the idea of an XML based toolkit, with style sheets, has a lot > of merit. How does this interact with the recent patent issued to Microsoft regarding style sheets? Specifically, have you obtained a license to use that patent yet? If not, then anything involving style sheets is pretty much a wasted effort, at this point. > To stick my neck out into an area where I'm not an expert... My view of > the future of GUIs on Unix is that X windows will be split into two > parts: a display driver (which provides direct hardware access + > OpenGL), and might be a kernel module, and a X server process (with GLX) > which uses that display driver. However, other native applications > could have direct access to the display driver. These might include an > X server aware window manager, 3D accelarated games and an XML/HTML > layout engine. This is almost right. However, I think the future doesn't have X in it at all. X is a huge behemoth. It is too large. an X server has to have too much in the way of resources for it to be useful. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 17: 9:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B1814BFC for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@bamboo.verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) id SAA14975; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:09:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:09:29 -0700 From: Allen Campbell Message-Id: <199903080109.SAA14975@bamboo.verinet.com> To: tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I want to respond more in depth to this thread, so I've held back; > but I need to ask a clarifying question, and then make a comment > on track with my previously stated general thesis: > > > > I think the idea of an XML based toolkit, with style sheets, has a lot > > of merit. > > How does this interact with the recent patent issued to Microsoft > regarding style sheets? > > Specifically, have you obtained a license to use that patent yet? > If not, then anything involving style sheets is pretty much a > wasted effort, at this point. As you know, they have made no attempt to enforce this patent, and if they did, Prior Art would expose this for the absurdity that it is, which is why they won't. This is born out by the fact that Microsoft has already publicly stated that a blanket license exists without explicit permission for anyone using style sheets. Attempting to reverse this at some point in the future would fail. Personally, I wish they would try to enforce it. The Justice Department would have a field day with it, and in the end this little matter would be cleared up. -- Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 17:29:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90F014C3F for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:29:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04935; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903080129.RAA04935@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Allen Campbell Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Mar 1999 18:09:29 MST." <199903080109.SAA14975@bamboo.verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:29:14 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can you give us a reference for which Microsoft has given permission to use style-sheets? Tnks, Amancio > > As you know, they have made no attempt to enforce this patent, and > if they did, Prior Art would expose this for the absurdity that it is, > which is why they won't. This is born out by the fact that Microsoft has > already publicly stated that a blanket license exists without explicit > permission for anyone using style sheets. Attempting to reverse this > at some point in the future would fail. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 18: 9:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11CD14E54 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:09:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09152; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] In-Reply-To: <57315.920832889@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, seems like I do it for FUNY anyway (but I have the fortunate experience gaining 100 pounds in the past two years due to Lorraine and I taste-testing some of New York's finest restaurants), but I'm sure we could do some research before going out if you would like us to.... I have no problem organizing dinner, even ahead of time (most desireably ahead of time). -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I > wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last > one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be > wanting to eat a big dinner together at this year's USENIX, and I'm in > the fortunate position of being able to "appoint" anybody I like as > dinner coordinator simply by telling everyone who asks me about it > "oh, don't talk to me, I'm not organizing that - talk to Ollivier and > Pat; they're the dinner coordinators this year!" > > Whether you agree to this in advance or not will be irrelevant if I > tell enough people; you'll simply be stuck with the job. So watch it! > :-) > > - Jordan > > > According to Pat Lynch: > > > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) > > > > Well, we trusted Our Exalted Leader at that time :-) > > > > [don't hit me Jordan, please] > > -- > > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.f > r > > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 18:25: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B619E14D2D for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:24:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09239; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:24:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:24:04 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org believe it or not I already have my first suggestion : (although I don;t know if theres any vegetarian dishes on this menu, since CLint Eastwood owns the place I suspect its one of those Republican type esptablishments, but the Monterey Area dining guide says its a must, and its 15-20 dollars per person. its the Mission Ranch, and info can be found at http://www.digitallantern.com/monterey/r/5/rm549.html -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Pat Lynch wrote: > Hey, seems like I do it for FUNY anyway (but I have the fortunate > experience gaining 100 pounds in the past two years due to Lorraine and I > taste-testing some of New York's finest restaurants), but I'm sure we > could do some research before going out if you would like us to.... > > I have no problem organizing dinner, even ahead of time (most desireably > ahead of time). -Pat > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- > Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I > > wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last > > one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be > > wanting to eat a big dinner together at this year's USENIX, and I'm in > > the fortunate position of being able to "appoint" anybody I like as > > dinner coordinator simply by telling everyone who asks me about it > > "oh, don't talk to me, I'm not organizing that - talk to Ollivier and > > Pat; they're the dinner coordinators this year!" > > > > Whether you agree to this in advance or not will be irrelevant if I > > tell enough people; you'll simply be stuck with the job. So watch it! > > :-) > > > > - Jordan > > > > > According to Pat Lynch: > > > > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) > > > > > > Well, we trusted Our Exalted Leader at that time :-) > > > > > > [don't hit me Jordan, please] > > > -- > > > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.f > > r > > > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 20:27:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inet.chip-web.com (c1003518-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.82.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF08914DF9 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:26:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: (qmail 17679 invoked from network); 8 Mar 1999 04:26:39 -0000 Received: from speedy.chip-web.com (HELO speedy) (172.16.1.1) by inet.chip-web.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 04:26:39 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail-r X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 20:26:34 -0800 To: Greg Lehey , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: vinum again Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990308143832.N490@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:08 PM 3/7/99 , Greg Lehey wrote: >Specifically, what you *should* do is: > > 1. Close to the beginning of your /etc/rc: > > vinum start 3.1-STABLE's /etc/defaults/rc.conf already has ... ### Miscellaneous administrative options ... vinum_drives="" # put in names of disks containing vinum drives and /etc/rc at line 50: if [ "X$skip_diskconf" != "XYES" -a -n "$vinum_drives" ]; then vinum read $vinum_drives That and correct entries is /etc/fstab makes vinum start up properly. However, at the time vinum is started, / is still read-only, so vinum complains that it can't remake the /dev entries. Despite the complaints, everything starts up and works properly. --Ludwig Pummer ( ludwigp@bigfoot.com ) ICQ UIN: 692441 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 20:31:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E514E37 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:31:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA27184; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:39:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA14598; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:38:32 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990308143832.N490@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:38:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ludwig Pummer , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum again References: <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r>; from Ludwig Pummer on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 02:42:50PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 7 March 1999 at 14:42:50 -0800, Ludwig Pummer wrote: > At 01:41 PM 3/7/99 , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk wrote: >> its the newfs bit that was giving me a headache, mounted ok but on >> reboot put me single user as could not mount vinum drive > > It should have mounted your vinum volume automatically if you put your > vinum drive/slice in your rc.conf. Does your rc.conf have a vinum_drives > option somewhere? > What was the error message? I think it's pretty evident that he hasn't set up the config files. >> I had to vinum create configfile and then mount it manually. > > What do you mean, exactly? Could you give details of your configfile? What > did you do to mount it? Specifically, what you *should* do is: 1. Close to the beginning of your /etc/rc: vinum start Yes, this isn't quite kosher. I need to commit this to the latest versions and -STABLE, but it won't help you if you're running a CD version. This also assumes that you're using a relatively new version of FreeBSD. You should try this out by issuing this command in single-user mode. If it complains about syntax, the version is too old. If it complains about not finding any vinum drives, something else is wrong, and I want to know about it. 2. In your /etc/fstab: /dev/vinum/S /S ufs rw 2 2 (this is an example from my system; your names will differ) > >> This could be a problem with the name or location of my config file is >> there a certain name or place for these ? > > I'm not sure what you're referring to. The vinum config file is only needed > once, when you do the 'create' command. After that, you just do 'vinum > /dev/somedrive' where somedrive is a drive on which you have vinum (like > /dev/wd1 or /dev/wd0s1h). > >> Do you use raid or raid-5, if so does it affect performance much ? The freely available version of Vinum doesn't include RAID-5. RAID-5 performance is similar to striped plexes for reading, and about one-quarter the speed for writing. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 21:22:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906CF14D07 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA27537; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:51:51 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA14722; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:51:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990308155150.S490@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:51:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ludwig Pummer , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum again References: <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <19990308143832.N490@lemis.com> <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r>; from Ludwig Pummer on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 08:26:34PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 7 March 1999 at 20:26:34 -0800, Ludwig Pummer wrote: > At 08:08 PM 3/7/99 , Greg Lehey wrote: >> Specifically, what you *should* do is: >> >> 1. Close to the beginning of your /etc/rc: >> >> vinum start > > 3.1-STABLE's /etc/defaults/rc.conf already has > ... > ### Miscellaneous administrative options > ... > vinum_drives="" # put in names of disks containing vinum drives > > and /etc/rc at line 50: > if [ "X$skip_diskconf" != "XYES" -a -n "$vinum_drives" ]; then > vinum read $vinum_drives Yes, I know, since I put them there. > That and correct entries is /etc/fstab makes vinum start up > properly. Yes, but it's confusing and potentially dangerous. 'vinum start' goes out and finds the vinum drives. > However, at the time vinum is started, / is still read-only, so > vinum complains that it can't remake the /dev entries. That has since been changed, but it's probably the case in -RELEASE. > Despite the complaints, everything starts up and works properly. Correct. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 21:44:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inet.chip-web.com (c1003518-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.82.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E5C614E5B for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: (qmail 17938 invoked from network); 8 Mar 1999 05:44:17 -0000 Received: from speedy.chip-web.com (HELO speedy) (172.16.1.1) by inet.chip-web.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 05:44:17 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990307213954.00a35680@mail-r> X-Sender: ludwigp@mail-r X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:43:39 -0800 To: Greg Lehey , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: vinum again Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990308155150.S490@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <19990308143832.N490@lemis.com> <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:21 PM 3/7/99 , Greg Lehey wrote: >> However, at the time vinum is started, / is still read-only, so >> vinum complains that it can't remake the /dev entries. > >That has since been changed, but it's probably the case in -RELEASE. I'm running 3.1-STABLE from Mar 4. IIRC, I also merged in the new rc and rc.conf files. # $Id: rc,v 1.169.2.5 1999/02/13 05:31:07 jkh Exp $ # $Id: rc.conf,v 1.1 1999/02/09 22:15:18 jkh Exp $ --Ludwig Pummer ( ludwigp@bigfoot.com ) ICQ UIN: 692441 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 21:46:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 82EB214D0D for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 21229 invoked by alias); 8 Mar 1999 05:46:17 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 21186 invoked by uid 0); 8 Mar 1999 05:46:13 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 05:46:13 -0000 Message-ID: <36E36426.86BB5E3D@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:46:14 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Perel Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and check outmy.sig)] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel wrote: > On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Nocturne wrote: > > in Windows-relative terms. No software other than Quickbooks, > > Quattro Pro, and Quicken. The longest it's run without a fault of > > A real hacker would write his own accounting system though, no need > for such a cop out - Q* money programs are not to be trusted! Okay, show me an X accounting program with the features of QuickBooks and I'll switch right now. As soon as I can teach the lusers^Wnon- technical people[1] how to use an entirely new system. Did I mention that it has to be data-compatible with QuickBooks and Quicken so we can still read the files we get from clients? Not as simple as one might think... > What you may want to do is (carefully) move the computer to the > center of the floor. Get a big red crayon, and draw a pentagram around it. > Next, candles - red is preferred but not required. Just make sure they are > the long lasting kind - it'd be a real shame if the computer outlives the > candles. Once you've done all that, walk away and lock the door. Don't come > back until the 49.7th day of operation. If all goes well the machine will > have transformed into a mutant of Windoze, OS/2 and CP/M. That is the > perfect time to launch a preemptive strike and destroy it. Am I getting > ahead of myself here? Yes, you are getting ahead of yourself. You see, I have to wait 27 days and 18 hours between rituals. The forces inhabiting the computer lab demand it. Something to do with dried frogs and naked redheads masturbating on the network hubs. But I'll keep your recommendation in mind. FYI: MCSE (anacronym) Mastery of Computerized Satanic Enchantment, one of several occult arts involving the assimilation of knowledge and reprogramming of human minds into a state of mindless advocacy. See also: toadie (sl.) [1] Loose interpretation. Liken said beings to small furry rodents known for undeterable mass exodus and their title roles in a popular series of DOS-based puzzle-solving computer games by Psygnosis. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 22:29:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A2614C8A; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA27776; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:59:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA15008; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:59:20 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990308165920.V490@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:59:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ludwig Pummer , tim@scratch.demon.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: vinum again References: <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <199903072143.VAA00531@franklin.matlink> <4.1.19990307143449.00a76be0@mail-r> <19990308143832.N490@lemis.com> <4.1.19990307201942.00a3c100@mail-r> <19990308155150.S490@lemis.com> <4.1.19990307213954.00a35680@mail-r> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990307213954.00a35680@mail-r>; from Ludwig Pummer on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 09:43:39PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -questions; this isn't really -chat material] On Sunday, 7 March 1999 at 21:43:39 -0800, Ludwig Pummer wrote: > At 09:21 PM 3/7/99 , Greg Lehey wrote: >>> However, at the time vinum is started, / is still read-only, so >>> vinum complains that it can't remake the /dev entries. >> >> That has since been changed, but it's probably the case in -RELEASE. > > I'm running 3.1-STABLE from Mar 4. IIRC, I also merged in the new rc and > rc.conf files. I need to update -STABLE. Real Soon Now. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 23: 8:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5685614E24 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA58578; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Pat Lynch Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:09:23 EST." Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:08:05 -0800 Message-ID: <58574.920876885@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I won't look a gift horse in the mouth! Sold - one dinner coordinator job to Pat Lynch! :) I'll remember this come June, trust me. :) - Jordan > Hey, seems like I do it for FUNY anyway (but I have the fortunate > experience gaining 100 pounds in the past two years due to Lorraine and I > taste-testing some of New York's finest restaurants), but I'm sure we > could do some research before going out if you would like us to.... > > I have no problem organizing dinner, even ahead of time (most desireably > ahead of time). -Pat > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- > Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I > > wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last > > one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be > > wanting to eat a big dinner together at this year's USENIX, and I'm in > > the fortunate position of being able to "appoint" anybody I like as > > dinner coordinator simply by telling everyone who asks me about it > > "oh, don't talk to me, I'm not organizing that - talk to Ollivier and > > Pat; they're the dinner coordinators this year!" > > > > Whether you agree to this in advance or not will be irrelevant if I > > tell enough people; you'll simply be stuck with the job. So watch it! > > :-) > > > > - Jordan > > > > > According to Pat Lynch: > > > > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) > > > > > > Well, we trusted Our Exalted Leader at that time :-) > > > > > > [don't hit me Jordan, please] > > > -- > > > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freen ix.f > > r > > > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 23:19:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C625B14DF8 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:19:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) Received: from gummibear (we-24-130-60-137.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.137]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07677 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:18:58 -0800 (PST) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990307232209.007a3d90@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:22:09 -0800 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone Read March's MicroTimes Issue? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all, A while back some Linux guy wrote Microtimes with a bunch of "Open Source Software" advocacy and that "Open Source" is great and that Freenix was great. Only one thing bothered me. He pretty much only mentioned Linux. This type of advocacy would lead one to believe that Linux is the only "Open Source" operating system around. Well, I guess I had to do my duty as a pro BSD user and flame him in a nice way. :) Check out my letter. I hope I didn't say anything untrue about BSD history. I lifted most of the information off of other articles and stuff that I found at www.freebsd.org/press.html and other sites. I was surprised to get almost a whole page. This is the first time I've written a Computer Magazine and got something published so I'm sort of excited. *grin* Maybe this could be a start for some more advocacy? :) Catch you all later, Joey Garcia ================================================================ Joey Bear Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net ================================================================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 7 23:23:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFD514E7B for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id RAA30582; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:54:00 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA06233; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:53:01 +0930 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:53:00 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone Read March's MicroTimes Issue? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990307232209.007a3d90@we.mediaone.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 gummibear@we.mediaone.net wrote: > Check out my letter. I hope I didn't say anything untrue about BSD > history. I lifted most of the information off of other articles and stuff > that I found at www.freebsd.org/press.html and other sites. Excellent! Could you reprint the article here so we (I) can read it? I don't read that magazine. Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 4:25:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938DB14DBA for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:25:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id VAA05603; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:25:06 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36E3BC09.84D33D1E@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 21:01:13 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alk@pobox.com Cc: robert@kudra.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: base64 References: <14048.10089.598598.919239@avalon.east> <36E07AEC.101F3467@newsguy.com> <14048.48864.918087.631128@avalon.east> <19990306095927.B53145@kudra.com> <14049.29637.311448.247778@avalon.east> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Kimball wrote: > > The base system has expanded. DHCP is one recent example. > In the modern world, a system without DHCP is much less generally > useful than one with DHCP. MIME should be another functional > adaptation to the modern environment. Uu-coding can go. (Well, > not yet, but before I die.) MIME is built-in on most mail readers. If anything but the basest mail reading capability is desired, install a mail reader. If you need MIME, select one with built-in support. > : Thats why we have the ports tree. If we switched to > : elm for instance, that would be a wasted megabye of disk for me, and > : many other people. Can you say 'Creeping Featureism?' > > Like DHCP. Or C++. Creeping Featurism? I don't think so. > But it would be better to be able to trivially configure a system > without DHCP, or C++, or MIME, I agree. C++ is there because: 1) Part of the base system requires it. 2) The C compiler we use supports it, anyway. DHCP is there because: 1) You cannot even do a network installation on some of the networks requiring DHCP. > Linux qua apple, not orange. You should compare the kernel to Linux, > And the distribution to SUSE/RedHat/Debian/Caldera -- all of which are > much better candidates for a general end-user *or* server OS than is > FreeBSD on the evidence of circulation alone. (FreeBSD will never > be given a fair shot unless its circulation rises sufficiently to be > a known contender.) This argument does not make sense. If these distributions were better than FreeBSD for (whatever use), given that they have more circulation, in first place, nobody would install FreeBSD. Why would anyone do that if a) Linux is popular and b) it's better? That FreeBSD continues to get installed, and it is not uncommon at all the case where a Linux user gets converted to FreeBSD, it stands to evidence that FreeBSD *can* and *is* a better OS for a lot of users. > FreeBSD 2.1.x is perfect for some people. FreeBSD 2.2.x is perfect > for some people. FreeBSD 3.x is perfect for some people. -current is > perfect for some people. That's great, but -current is becoming > something, something new. That new thing will not be an improvement > for those who find 2.2.x to be perfect. I am of the impression that > -current exists for a number of distinct reasons, significant among > them being > > 1) a desire to sell CDs on the part of Walnut Creek > 2) a desire for control/self-actualization/money on the part of core/committers > 3) a desire for a certain product by the end-users > > with the last being as diverse as the user base. While the 4.x user > base will overlap with the 3.x user base, it is (1) hopeful that the > subscription base will increase by virtue of the product being more > competetive in order to provide a hope of a business future, and (2) > hopeful that it will fulfill the needs of its contributors in order to > provide a hope of a technical future. You could not be more off the mark. -Current exists because that's were we make the OS evolve. We want it to evolve because we feel the need to. I might be mistaken, but I doubt there is any single feature in -current that wasn't *needed* by someone, and for this reason was created and added. This has always been the case, and nothing changed. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "FreeBSD is Yoda, Linux is Luke Skywalker." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 4:25:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1B214E56 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:25:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id VAA05622; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:25:14 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36E3BCEC.8E428E7@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 21:05:00 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alk@pobox.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: base64 References: <14048.10089.598598.919239@avalon.east> <36E07AEC.101F3467@newsguy.com> <14048.48864.918087.631128@avalon.east> <19990306095927.B53145@kudra.com> <14049.29637.311448.247778@avalon.east> <199903080209.TAA28284@mt.sri.com> <14051.24548.250885.992678@avalon.east> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Kimball wrote: > > Quoth Nate Williams on Sun, 7 March: > : > : Finally, there is *NO* way to distribute a standard MIME client that > : will not add bloat. > > mpack/munpack. Which would never be used by anyone who actually reads mail (and, thus, has installed a decent mail reader). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "FreeBSD is Yoda, Linux is Luke Skywalker." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 6:55:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from psv.oss.uswest.net (psv.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E904F14E87 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 06:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from greg@psv.oss.uswest.net) Received: (from greg@localhost) by psv.oss.uswest.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA40163 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:55:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from greg) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 08:55:10 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: greg@uswest.net Organization: US WEST !NTERACT From: Greg Rowe To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All this time I thought it was Jordan and his "expensive tastes" that picked the restaurant..... Greg On 07-Mar-99 Pat Lynch wrote: > On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Ollivier Robert wrote: > >> >> Great experience that. The feasting is quite nice too :-) >> >> PS: one just have to avoid 50 bucks/meal restaurants (semi-private joke). >> -- > > yah, that kinda sucked, but New Orleans is known for the locals taking > advantage of the tourists. They knew they could with us. *sigh* And it was > so expensive that Lorraine and I just ate one plate btwn the two of us. > > (we were the only people that seemed to ask about prices beforehand) > > -Pat > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- > Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Greg Rowe US WEST - Internet Service Operations "The telephone, for those of you who have forgotten, was a commonly used communications technology in the days before electronic mail. They're still easy to find in most large cities." -- Nathaniel Borenstein To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 7:55:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2880114ED9 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) Received: from gummibear (we-24-130-60-137.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.137]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA10440 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:55:15 -0800 (PST) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990308075824.007ab960@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:58:24 -0800 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Internet World @ LA Convention Center Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was wondering if anyone was going to that Internet World thing at the Convention Center here in L.A. I missed out on it last year and I really don't know what kind of things go on in one of thos Conventions, but it would be interesting to check it out. I figure it might be mostly about E-Commerce and maybe all the new Net toys and software. Would Walnut Creek be there showing off their goods? (Like FreeBSD) Anyways, if anyone wants to go it's like during the 12-16th in April. Joey ================================================================ Joey Bear Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net ================================================================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 8: 1:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shattered.disturbed.net (shattered.disturbed.net [192.139.81.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0123014DD8 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:00:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from veers@disturbed.net) Received: from shattered.disturbed.net ([192.139.81.180]:42252 "EHLO shattered" ident: "IDENT-NONSENSE") by disturbed.net with ESMTP id <61622-266>; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:02:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:02:31 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Perel To: Nocturne Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and check outmy.sig)] In-Reply-To: <36E36426.86BB5E3D@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Nocturne wrote: > > A real hacker would write his own accounting system though, no need > > for such a cop out - Q* money programs are not to be trusted! > > Okay, show me an X accounting program with the features of QuickBooks > and I'll switch right now. As soon as I can teach the lusers^Wnon- > technical people[1] how to use an entirely new system. Did I mention > that it has to be data-compatible with QuickBooks and Quicken so we > can still read the files we get from clients? Not as simple as one > might think... I DID say write your own, didn't I? That will make you look very good in front of the boss - an employee with vision and technical prowess, hacking away at a substitute to something that already works... great sight indeed. > > What you may want to do is (carefully) move the computer to the > > center of the floor. Get a big red crayon, and draw a pentagram around it. > > Next, candles - red is preferred but not required. Just make sure they are > > the long lasting kind - it'd be a real shame if the computer outlives the > > candles. Once you've done all that, walk away and lock the door. Don't come > > back until the 49.7th day of operation. If all goes well the machine will > > have transformed into a mutant of Windoze, OS/2 and CP/M. That is the > > perfect time to launch a preemptive strike and destroy it. Am I getting > > ahead of myself here? > > Yes, you are getting ahead of yourself. You see, I have to wait 27 > days and 18 hours between rituals. The forces inhabiting the computer > lab demand it. Something to do with dried frogs and naked redheads > masturbating on the network hubs. But I'll keep your recommendation > in mind. Is your company hiring? I'd love to see that computer room.... :) Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081 alexp@iplink.net -=- (work) veers@disturbed.net -=- (play) Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD == The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 9:25:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EFAAF14BE1 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:25:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 16415 invoked by alias); 8 Mar 1999 17:25:15 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 16385 invoked by uid 0); 8 Mar 1999 17:25:13 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 17:25:13 -0000 Message-ID: <36E407FA.A36B05C1@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:25:14 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Perel Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Movingon and check outmy.sig)] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel wrote: > I DID say write your own, didn't I? That will make you look very >good in front of the boss - an employee with vision and technical prowess, >hacking away at a substitute to something that already works... great sight >indeed. That would please them to no end. Their highest paid non-executive employee shirking responsiblities to reinvent a wheel.... >> Yes, you are getting ahead of yourself. You see, I have to wait 27 >> days and 18 hours between rituals. The forces inhabiting the computer >> lab demand it. Something to do with dried frogs and naked redheads >> masturbating on the network hubs. But I'll keep your recommendation >> in mind. > >Is your company hiring? I'd love to see that computer room.... :) You're in luck! I^HWe have been short-handed scapegoats^Woperations managers lately... The last one was wheeled out, kept mumbling "No more, no more" in a cracked voice. I'm *sure* it was unrelated. Please be sure to send me your resume, mailing address, SSN, credit card or checking account number, the names and addresses of your last three dates, blood and hair samples, and fill out this short, 600-question psychological profile. Thanks, and I'm^Wthe company is looking forward to tortur^Wworking with you! Our technical employee orientation manuals can be found at http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/ -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 10:15:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959E314EA4 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06642; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:14:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990308131436.A5068@netmonger.net> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:14:36 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: members@funy.org Subject: Re: Internet World @ LA Convention Center References: <3.0.6.32.19990308075824.007ab960@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990308075824.007ab960@we.mediaone.net>; from gummibear@we.mediaone.net on Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 07:58:24AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 07:58:24AM -0800, gummibear@we.mediaone.net wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone was going to that Internet World thing at the > Convention Center here in L.A. I missed out on it last year and I really > don't know what kind of things go on in one of thos Conventions, but it > would be interesting to check it out. Internet World is a trade show, where vendors peddle their wares. I.e. you'll find the likes of Cisco, Lucent, and a thousand little guys who make various bits of hardware and software crap. It has become traditional for companies like Caldera and Red Hat to show up and give away a few thousand CDROMs. I have manned booths in the past where we were handing them out like candy. (I have since changed my opinion of Linux's position in the free software universe, and am no longer inclined to actively promote it in such a fashion.) I think that FreeBSD would benefit from doing something similar. I am in the New York area, and I am willing to spend a day or two evangelizing FreeBSD at a trade show, particularly if I am provided with literature and/or products to give out. PC Expo is coming to town in June, and Internet World in October. The newly-formed FUNY may be able to get a space. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 10:46:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E8514E19 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08469; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:45:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd008423; Mon Mar 8 11:45:52 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25028; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:45:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903081845.LAA25028@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? To: allenc@bamboo.verinet.com (Allen Campbell) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:45:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903080109.SAA14975@bamboo.verinet.com> from "Allen Campbell" at Mar 7, 99 06:09:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > How does this interact with the recent patent issued to Microsoft > > regarding style sheets? > > > > Specifically, have you obtained a license to use that patent yet? > > If not, then anything involving style sheets is pretty much a > > wasted effort, at this point. > > As you know, they have made no attempt to enforce this patent, and > if they did, Prior Art would expose this for the absurdity that it is, > which is why they won't. This is born out by the fact that Microsoft has > already publicly stated that a blanket license exists without explicit > permission for anyone using style sheets. Attempting to reverse this > at some point in the future would fail. I guess that's why the August 1980 Scientific American article on public key cryptography precluded RSA getting a patent on product-of-two-primes trap-door algorithms. Oh. Wait. It didn't. > Personally, I wish they would try to enforce it. The Justice Department > would have a field day with it, and in the end this little matter would > be cleared up. I believe they would be successful. As successful as Unisys's GIF compression algorithm enforcement regarding Terry Welch's addition to the Lempel-Ziv algorithm, or AT&T enforcement of the XOR-a-cursor and BLIT patents (both of which shouldn't have been granted, based on their obviousness). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 11:26:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE9A15327 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:26:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29153; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd029098; Mon Mar 8 13:04:29 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27152; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:25:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903081925.MAA27152@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and To: dpilgrim@uswest.net (Nocturne) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:25:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: veers@disturbed.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36E36426.86BB5E3D@uswest.net> from "Nocturne" at Mar 7, 99 09:46:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > in Windows-relative terms. No software other than Quickbooks, > > > Quattro Pro, and Quicken. The longest it's run without a fault of > > > > A real hacker would write his own accounting system though, no need > > for such a cop out - Q* money programs are not to be trusted! > > Okay, show me an X accounting program with the features of QuickBooks > and I'll switch right now. As soon as I can teach the lusers^Wnon- > technical people[1] how to use an entirely new system. Did I mention > that it has to be data-compatible with QuickBooks and Quicken so we > can still read the files we get from clients? Not as simple as one > might think... Data compatability is trivial. The file formats are documented at: Quicken QIF: http://www.intuit.com/quicken/technical-support/quicken/old-faqs/dosfaqs/60006.html Quattro Pro File Format http://www.corel.com/partners_developers/ds/co32sdk/docs/qp7/qpf1copy.htm Quickbooks IIF: http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/win/1210.html http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/win2/1776.html http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_iifheaders.html http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_iifkeywords.html http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_iiffiles.html Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 13:35:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A69A415853 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:35:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 7292 invoked by alias); 8 Mar 1999 21:35:12 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 7252 invoked by uid 0); 8 Mar 1999 21:35:11 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 21:35:11 -0000 Message-ID: <36E4428F.18D26C1F@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:35:11 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: veers@disturbed.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and References: <199903081925.MAA27152@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > technical people[1] how to use an entirely new system. Did I mention > > that it has to be data-compatible with QuickBooks and Quicken so we > > can still read the files we get from clients? Not as simple as one > > might think... > > Data compatability is trivial. The file formats are documented at: (I hope this isn't getting too far off track even for -chat.) The Intuit links are to the portable transaction files, not the data files. QuickBooks (.QBW) and Quicken (.QDF) data files are binary format and passcode encrypted. With each new version Intuit rearranges the file formats, forcing us to upgrade each year when Intuit comes out with a new version. This is the same forward compatibility issue plaguing MS Office users. And since not all of our clients have lots of money and the "newest is best" mentality, we end up dragging them along with us on the upgrade path, bloating our software budget. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 13:46:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337B6151BA for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24696; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:07:33 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:07:33 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nocturne Cc: Alex Perel , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on and check outmy.sig)] Message-ID: <19990308200733.A22144@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <36E36426.86BB5E3D@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <36E36426.86BB5E3D@uswest.net>; from Nocturne on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 09:46:14PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 09:46:14PM -0800, Nocturne wrote: > FYI: MCSE (anacronym) Mastery of Computerized Satanic Enchantment, No no no. I think you'll find it means "Must Consult Someone Experienced". HTH. N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 15:58:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343A514F80 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:58:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10K9ua-0006AC-0A for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:58:17 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA00304 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:57:48 GMT Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00543 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:55:22 GMT (envelope-from marko) Message-ID: <19990308235522.A507@localhost> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:55:22 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone point me to a good book or (preferably) a URL where I can get info/help about inter-process communications in C in a BSD environment, fork(), pipe(), popen() etc? What I'm trying to do (without success :-( ) is to write a program, "foo", that starts (exec()'s?) another program, "bar" with which it has 2-way communication. For example, bar outputs a prompt "enter a number", foo reads the prompt and sends bar a number, bar outputs a result which foo can read. Anything that gives examples of doing this would be a great help. Thanks. -- Way to go Eddie! Eddie Irvine, Winner, 1999 Australian GP FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 16: 7:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3921D14F57 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:07:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04009; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:06:09 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Pat Lynch Cc: Robert Watson , nick@FERALMONKEY.ORG, "Matthew D. Fuller" , eT , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: what's in a name? Message-ID: <19990308160608.A1249@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 12:32:42AM -0500 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 12:32:42AM -0500, Pat Lynch wrote: > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > > I wonder what web server the Viagra web site uses (I assume there is > one). > > There is one, but it seems to be down (NT?) I thought that would be one problem that the Viagra web server would never have. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 16: 8:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624B714FE8 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07784; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007749; Mon Mar 8 17:08:06 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28180; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:08:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903090008.RAA28180@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Why I suffer [Was: Re: Microsoft dies after 47 days (was: Moving on To: dpilgrim@uswest.net (Nocturne) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:08:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, veers@disturbed.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36E4428F.18D26C1F@uswest.net> from "Nocturne" at Mar 8, 99 01:35:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > (I hope this isn't getting too far off track even for -chat.) > > The Intuit links are to the portable transaction files, not the data > files. QuickBooks (.QBW) and Quicken (.QDF) data files are binary > format and passcode encrypted. With each new version Intuit rearranges > the file formats, forcing us to upgrade each year when Intuit comes > out with a new version. This is the same forward compatibility issue > plaguing MS Office users. And since not all of our clients have lots > of money and the "newest is best" mentality, we end up dragging them > along with us on the upgrade path, bloating our software budget. The second interchange format that I pointed to provides not just transactions, but everything you can have in your data. In general, this is their upgrade mechanism: 1) Export to interchange format from old program 2) Import from interchange format in new program (per the documentation on upgrading on the WWW site). In general, if you have your customers send their data in interchange format theyy will not have to upgrade when you upgrade. Also, any freeware version that can import/export interchange format can import all the data that was exported. See their FAQ, especially the section on exporting data from one business, and importing it at another. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 16:23: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C477414F9E for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:22:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA31924; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:22:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:22:18 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? In-Reply-To: <19990308235522.A507@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment by W. Richard Stevens. ISBN 0-201-56317-7. Unix Network Programming Volume 2: Interprocess Communications by W. Richard Stevens. ISBN 0-130-81081-9. In fact I've found that just about all of Mr. Stevens books are a must have on my shelf. One of his books even features excerpts by one of our very own, Bill Fenner . :) On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: # Can anyone point me to a good book or (preferably) a URL where I # can get info/help about inter-process communications in C in a BSD # environment, fork(), pipe(), popen() etc? # # What I'm trying to do (without success :-( ) is to write a program, # "foo", that starts (exec()'s?) another program, "bar" with which # it has 2-way communication. # # For example, bar outputs a prompt "enter a number", foo reads the # prompt and sends bar a number, bar outputs a result which foo can # read. # # Anything that gives examples of doing this would be a great help. # # Thanks. # # -- # Way to go Eddie! Eddie Irvine, Winner, 1999 Australian GP # FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org # My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov # _______________________________________________________________ # Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK # CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry # mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 16:23:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7870714FF8 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA03914; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:22:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:22:13 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: dcs@newsguy.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: base64 References: <14048.10089.598598.919239@avalon.east> <36E07AEC.101F3467@newsguy.com> <14048.48864.918087.631128@avalon.east> <19990306095927.B53145@kudra.com> <14049.29637.311448.247778@avalon.east> <36E3BC09.84D33D1E@newsguy.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14052.3661.72448.560855@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Daniel C. Sobral on Mon, 8 March: : : 1) You cannot even do a network installation on some of the networks : requiring DHCP. So install dhcp if you want to do a network installation? Mutatis mutandis. : This argument does not make sense. If these distributions were : better than FreeBSD for (whatever use), given that they have more : circulation, in first place, nobody would install FreeBSD. Why would : anyone do that if a) Linux is popular and b) it's better? I'll return my refrain: Different people have different needs -- and different software is better for their different needs. : That FreeBSD continues to get installed, and it is not uncommon at : all the case where a Linux user gets converted to FreeBSD, it stands : to evidence that FreeBSD *can* and *is* a better OS for a lot of : users. Change that to 'lot' to a 'few', and I'd have to agree: It's better for me. I'd like to see it grow and I think it can be better for a lot more people, with some simple packaging changes, hence my suggestions. : -Current exists because that's were we make the OS evolve. We want : it to evolve because we feel the need to. I might be mistaken, but I : doubt there is any single feature in -current that wasn't *needed* : by someone, and for this reason was created and added. Needs have causes. Clearly the needs of a few are of greater significance than the needs of the one or the many. I'd like to see the needs of the many play a larger role in planning the future. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 17:45:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B3614BDD for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28556; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:44:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028533; Mon, 8 Mar 99 19:44:40 -0600 Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA18097; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:44:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990308194446.B18048@winternet.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:44:46 -0600 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? References: <19990308235522.A507@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990308235522.A507@localhost>; from Mark Ovens on Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 11:55:22PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/ Mark Ovens wrote: > Can anyone point me to a good book or (preferably) a URL where I > can get info/help about inter-process communications in C in a BSD > environment, fork(), pipe(), popen() etc? > > What I'm trying to do (without success :-( ) is to write a program, > "foo", that starts (exec()'s?) another program, "bar" with which > it has 2-way communication. > > For example, bar outputs a prompt "enter a number", foo reads the > prompt and sends bar a number, bar outputs a result which foo can > read. > > Anything that gives examples of doing this would be a great help. > > Thanks. > > -- > Way to go Eddie! Eddie Irvine, Winner, 1999 Australian GP > FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org > My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov > _______________________________________________________________ > Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK > CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry > mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Nathan Ahlstrom nrahlstr@winternet.com http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 19:12:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87BD915354 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 15057 invoked by alias); 9 Mar 1999 03:12:25 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 15008 invoked by uid 0); 9 Mar 1999 03:12:24 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 1999 03:12:24 -0000 Message-ID: <36E49198.E44B425F@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:12:24 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Pat Lynch , Robert Watson , nick@FERALMONKEY.ORG, "Matthew D. Fuller" , eT , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: what's in a name? References: <19990308160608.A1249@orcrist.mediacity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 12:32:42AM -0500, Pat Lynch wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > > > I wonder what web server the Viagra web site uses (I assume there is > > one). > > > > There is one, but it seems to be down (NT?) > > I thought that would be one problem that the Viagra web server would > never have. If they do have troubles, I hope their techies are tough enough to handle the work load. 'Cuz I'm sure they detest softies... -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 22:24:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A9E14C5A for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.74]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAACDA; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:24:29 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA46025; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:15:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990308235522.A507@localhost> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:15:24 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: RE: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 08-Mar-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > Can anyone point me to a good book or (preferably) a URL where I > can get info/help about inter-process communications in C in a BSD > environment, fork(), pipe(), popen() etc? Book? R.W.Stevens series has a book, part II of the series, which is about IPC, and is surprisingly called: Unix Networkprogramming: Interprocess Communications. See Addison Wesley. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 8 23:23:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC5814C21 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: (from eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA01316; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 02:19:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from eagle) Message-Id: <199903090719.CAA01316@eagle.phc.igs.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 02:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: eagle@phc.igs.net Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: reg@shale.csir.co.za, asmodai@wxs.nl, brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903072325.QAA23208@usr09.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 7 Mar, Terry Lambert wrote: > This is almost right. > > However, I think the future doesn't have X in it at all. X is a huge > behemoth. It is too large. an X server has to have too much in the > way of resources for it to be useful. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Think about writing a X application that's not text dependant with the style sheet concept, while a set of widgets based upon this idea would possibly be a good idea, it IMHO would need to be included in a more general purpose toolkit. One other thought I had on Terry's idea, actually two but anyway. If we could include a xprotocol/xlib compatibility layer this idea .... one possible method of improving performance over the vnc protocol would to base it upon polygons instead of rectangles, this should reduce the number of raw pixels drawn by quite a few depending on the server side algorithims to implement this capability.. I have a few other ideas' but I'll let them rest until I see what terry has to say rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 0:23:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F888150B4 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (allenc.verinet.com [199.45.180.181]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA32315; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:23:03 -0700 Received: from verinet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by struct. (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA03926; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:22:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Message-ID: <36E4DA55.B7D8204F@verinet.com> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 01:22:45 -0700 From: Allen Campbell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Incessant patent babble (Was: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit?) References: <199903081845.LAA25028@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > How does this interact with the recent patent issued to Microsoft > > > regarding style sheets? > > > > > > Specifically, have you obtained a license to use that patent yet? > > > If not, then anything involving style sheets is pretty much a > > > wasted effort, at this point. > > > > As you know, they have made no attempt to enforce this patent, and > > if they did, Prior Art would expose this for the absurdity that it is, > > which is why they won't. This is born out by the fact that Microsoft has > > already publicly stated that a blanket license exists without explicit > > permission for anyone using style sheets. Attempting to reverse this > > at some point in the future would fail. > > I guess that's why the August 1980 Scientific American article > on public key cryptography precluded RSA getting a patent on > product-of-two-primes trap-door algorithms. > > Oh. Wait. It didn't. Now, unfortunately, it is illegal to send secure messages without a license from RSA. Oh. Wait. It isn't. I'll bet Microsoft's patent would be even easier to render irrelevant. > > Personally, I wish they would try to enforce it. The Justice Department > > would have a field day with it, and in the end this little matter would > > be cleared up. > > I believe they would be successful. As successful as Unisys's GIF > compression algorithm enforcement regarding Terry Welch's addition > to the Lempel-Ziv algorithm, or AT&T enforcement of the XOR-a-cursor > and BLIT patents (both of which shouldn't have been granted, based > on their obviousness). What difference have any of these patents made? How much revenue has Unisys actually realized as a result? How many images have been made inaccessible for the lack of unencumbered GIF's? I believe Compuserve has some claim to GIF's also. Perhaps the fates of these companies (Compuserve particularly) should serve as an omen to Microsoft :) One or two minor tweaks to style sheets and a new buzz word name and _bang_, the same ignorance that led to the patent being awarded in the first place now makes it impossible to collect on. This would be the fate of style sheets should Microsoft attempt to cash in on that ridiculous patent. Go forth; implement style sheets. Give it a better name while you're at it. At least with Boggle there was a credible threat. :) > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 2:17:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E7614FF8 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 02:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA28607; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:16:46 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:16:46 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? In-Reply-To: <19990308235522.A507@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What about /usr/share/doc/psd/ ? Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > Can anyone point me to a good book or (preferably) a URL where I > can get info/help about inter-process communications in C in a BSD > environment, fork(), pipe(), popen() etc? > > What I'm trying to do (without success :-( ) is to write a program, > "foo", that starts (exec()'s?) another program, "bar" with which > it has 2-way communication. > > For example, bar outputs a prompt "enter a number", foo reads the > prompt and sends bar a number, bar outputs a result which foo can > read. > > Anything that gives examples of doing this would be a great help. > > Thanks. > > -- > Way to go Eddie! Eddie Irvine, Winner, 1999 Australian GP > FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org > My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov > _______________________________________________________________ > Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK > CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry > mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 2:38:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494CE1505F; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 02:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@cygnus.rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA29003; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:40:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:40:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Eivind Eklund , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Killed Myself In-Reply-To: <199903090733.CAA32299@y.dyson.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > Back in the late '70's, I started investigating C as a programming language. It > took a week to get a "hello world" to compile and link. I was an island, without any > support from anyone. Such experiences do teach one to be somewhat tolerant. > > My mistake: I came from a DEC programming world, and I wrote the program > like this: > > Main() > { > Printf("Hello world\n"); > } > > My brain wasn't trained to be case sensitive (of course, it is now), but that > was a most irritating experience. I wish I could dig up some of my first pascal/C programs, bad enough to peel the paint behind the person trying to read them. The only two other languages i had played with were GWBASIC and Turbo-assembler without any guidance of course... *cough* goto *cough*.... on second thought, keeping them buried might better serve my interests. :) -Alfred > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 3: 5:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E3C14D7F for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 03:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA77363; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:03:21 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:03:20 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Allen Campbell , tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? Message-ID: <19990309130320.B324@shale.csir.co.za> References: <199903080109.SAA14975@bamboo.verinet.com> <199903080129.RAA04935@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199903080129.RAA04935@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 05:29:14PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 05:29:14PM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Can you give us a reference for which Microsoft has given permission to > use style-sheets? http://www.news.com/News/Items/0,4,32110,00.html I can't find a link to the full letter. Not as rosy as it seems: "... any W3C member will be able to obtain a licence from Mircosoft ...". "... technology we submitted ...". They must be dreaming. As the W3C points out, the origional proposal came from CERN in 1994. (http://www.w3c.org/1999/02/Patent-Statement). The patent application was also from 1995, before W3C was a force to be reconed with, and when Microsoft was just warming up in it's actions to crush Netscape. The patent would, therefore, have been another crushing blow to Navigator. If I recall previous patent threads correctly, then Microsoft was one year's grace before the origional application date before prior art claims would be valid. That would still mean that the early work at CERN would get them. Not to mention DSSSL and other earlier proposals. However, this patent would be of no concern to a GUI toolkit, since it specifically applies to "an electronic publishing system", and "a page". Regards, -Jeremy -- | "Come home my prodigal son, come home and lets be one, --+-- don't want to see you cry, don't make me tell you why, | you've lived in a house with me, my blood has set you free, | in the world you'll surely die, nothing else will satisfy." -MIC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 7:16:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11B714DD1 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27007; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:16:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990309101601.A26766@netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:16:01 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX 99 [was: Guess we've lost the server market too...?] Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990307130519.C36028@keltia.freenix.fr> <57315.920832889@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <57315.920832889@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 10:54:49AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 07, 1999 at 10:54:49AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Oi! You just watch it, you guys, I already told you last year that I > wasn't going to be planning any more dinners because of how the last > one turned out, but you know what? People are STILL going to be Consider yourself lucky. The first time I coordinated a dinner at a convention, not only did people end up paying more than they expected, but they all came down with food poisoning. I will be forever pointed and snickered at amid whisperings of the "lemon chicken incident". -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 8: 8:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CE214F90 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:08:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09718; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:08:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:08:10 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: fad@o-o.org Subject: A new feature for /usr/bin/login (feedback requested) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm finally getting around to coding a feature into /usr/bin/login that I have need for at work and on my home system, and would like feedback from anyone else who might want to use/see a copy of it when I'm done. I'm going to alter login so that any person with a login group of 80 will be automagically chrooted. If there is an entry for them in /etc/chroots they will be chrooted to the specified area (allowing several people to be chrooted to a common sub-area) and if there isn't an entry for them, they will be chrooted to their home directories. The things I specifically would like feedback on are : 1. Should the login group be set to a different gid for some reason? If so, why and what would be a better group? 2. Should I build some sort of prepackaged utility to set up chrooted environments (creating directory hierarchies, copying binaries, libraries, device files, etc) and if so what would the -minimum- set be for basic functionality? 3. The format for /etc/chroots will be username:path-to-root does anyone have a problem with that? :) 4. Anything else anyone wants to comment on regarding this that is useful or at least interesting :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 8:44:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED83E14D7F for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:44:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.sw.wan [192.9.200.19]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21420; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:41:02 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36E54F02.28B84C7E@trltech.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:40:34 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: [F.A.D.]A new feature for /usr/bin/login (feedback requested) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Licia wrote: > > I'm going to alter login so that any person with a login group of 80 will > be automagically chrooted. If there is an entry for them in /etc/chroots > they will be chrooted to the specified area (allowing several people to be > chrooted to a common sub-area) and if there isn't an entry for them, they will > be chrooted to their home directories. Have you considered fitting it into the existing login.conf facility? Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 8:45: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4604314D7F for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54]) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 10KPcn-0007Tx-00; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:44:57 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:44:19 -0600 From: Guy Helmer To: Licia Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new feature for /usr/bin/login (feedback requested) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Licia wrote: > I'm going to alter login so that any person with a login group of 80 will > be automagically chrooted. If there is an entry for them in /etc/chroots > they will be chrooted to the specified area (allowing several people to be > chrooted to a common sub-area) and if there isn't an entry for them, they will > be chrooted to their home directories. I think it would be better to add a new login capability to the login.conf file that specifies a chroot directory for all members of the class. With parameter substitution (e.g. "%u" for the user name, "%g" for the primary group name), this could eliminate the need for the /etc/chroots file you suggest. > 2. Should I build some sort of prepackaged utility to set up chrooted > environments (creating directory hierarchies, copying binaries, libraries, > device files, etc) and if so what would the -minimum- set be for basic > functionality? Sure, that would be useful. You might want to look into portal mounts WRT chroot jails - it would save having to copy binaries, libraries, device files, and configuration files. Guy Guy Helmer, Ph.D. Candidate, Iowa State University Dept. of Computer Science Research Assistant, Ames Laboratory --- ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov Research Assistant, Dept. of Computer Science --- ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 9:30:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3F715016 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:30:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10133; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:30:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:30:17 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Guy Helmer Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new feature for /usr/bin/login (feedback requested) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Guy Helmer wrote: > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Licia wrote: > > > I'm going to alter login so that any person with a login group of 80 will > > be automagically chrooted. If there is an entry for them in /etc/chroots > > they will be chrooted to the specified area (allowing several people to be > > chrooted to a common sub-area) and if there isn't an entry for them, they will > > be chrooted to their home directories. > > I think it would be better to add a new login capability to the login.conf > file that specifies a chroot directory for all members of the class. > With parameter substitution (e.g. "%u" for the user name, "%g" for the > primary group name), this could eliminate the need for the /etc/chroots > file you suggest. hmm sort of a chroot=pathname entry, with different login classes for each group of users, defaulting to home directory if not specified? > > > 2. Should I build some sort of prepackaged utility to set up chrooted > > environments (creating directory hierarchies, copying binaries, libraries, > > device files, etc) and if so what would the -minimum- set be for basic > > functionality? > > Sure, that would be useful. You might want to look into portal mounts WRT > chroot jails - it would save having to copy binaries, libraries, device > files, and configuration files. > Hmm portal mounts would work, but seem a little site-specific to offer generically, wouldn't you think? Actually, now that I think about it more most things that could be pre-done in a script would probably be very site specific... would it be safe to assume the average person using chrooted logins would be advanced enough to set up the environment properly? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 9:33:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EE314BD6 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10149; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:32:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:32:54 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: [F.A.D.]A new feature for /usr/bin/login (feedback requested) In-Reply-To: <36E54F02.28B84C7E@trltech.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Richard Smith wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > I'm going to alter login so that any person with a login group of 80 will > > be automagically chrooted. If there is an entry for them in /etc/chroots > > they will be chrooted to the specified area (allowing several people to be > > chrooted to a common sub-area) and if there isn't an entry for them, they will > > be chrooted to their home directories. > > Have you considered fitting it into the existing login.conf facility? > > Richard. > I admit, I had not :) I don't actually tend to use login.conf much, so it usually doesn't occur to me to do anything with it :) Thanks to you and Guy Helmer for suggesting it, it will -really- reduce the needed time and simplify the code :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 12:15:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D13C1555B; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id VAA50266; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:14:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: dillon@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Mar 1999 21:14:52 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 5 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org OK, OK, I *know* he's not *that* Matt Dillon, but still :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 13: 4: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 7FCD915097; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:03:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: des@flood.ping.uio.no Cc: chat@freebsd.org, dillon@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on 09 Mar 1999 21:14:52 +0100) Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html References: Message-Id: <19990309210353.7FCD915097@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:03:53 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Cc: dillon@freebsd.org > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav > Date: 09 Mar 1999 21:14:52 +0100 > Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Precedence: bulk > > OK, OK, I *know* he's not *that* Matt Dillon, but still :) no, but he is that Peter Zale, graduated the University of Chicago 1980. Lived in Chamberlin Hall in Burton-Judson Dormitory at the intersection of 60th and Ellis on the South Side of Chicago. Gawd.....20th reunion coming up next year. oh boy. ;| jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 14: 3:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6CB14EED for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:03:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15007; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:02:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:02:44 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Brett Glass Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: volunteering (was Re: Ports) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990309142131.00ca2cc0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, (moved from -advocacy to -chat) Brett Glass writes: > It's easy to say "it's not broken" until you attempt to bring in a > port, for a version of the OS that was released very recently, and > find out that it's an old version that has a security hole. And do you not patch security holes in the OS? You have to do that by hand since you apparently only run releases. You are completely inconsistent - you are apparently happy to patch security holes in the OS but not in the ports. If you're not willing to track -STABLE and must do patches by hand then you should be more than willing to not track the ports and patch those by hand. At least be consistent with your ramblings. > Give me a break. The two most recent offers I've made to "give back" > have been rejected. One of these -- an offer to devote a bunch of time > to getting FreeBSD running on IBM Netfinity servers -- was rejected > rather capriciously. Such treatment doesn't exactly make folks feel as > if contributions are welcome. Maybe that's because you insulted Mike Smith when you did it? I don't know how you think you come across to people, but you come off as a know-it-all, not willing to actually contribute whiner who hates the GPL. I've told you two times now there are plenty of ways to contribute by maintaining ports. Hell, you don't even have to become the maintainer. Take a port that doesn't work under 2.2.8 now due to the changeover to ELF. Fix it so it works for 2.2.8 without breaking it for -STABLE. Make a diff, send-pr to ports and get it committed. It's not that hard. You don't have to ask anyone. You don't _need_ permission to go futz w/ the port from the maintainer. You SHOULD submit your diffs to him before doing the send-pr but that's not a big deal. If you want to be really polite you would send an email saying "I'm trying to make this port work for 2.2.8 wo/ breaking the -STABLE build. I'll send you any diffs when I get this done." I seriously doubt that any maintainer would mind. Everyone else who has been on this thread is listed as a developer or contributor in the handbook. You are not. All of us have spent time actually working on making FreeBSD better. Yes, you've written articles. Great. Then you antagonize all of the Linux (and BSD) people about the GPL and take a pool of people who might switch to FreeBSD and push them away. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 15:24:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4493A14DE4 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:24:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA50253; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903092324.PAA50253@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.peterzale.com/377.html References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org : :OK, OK, I *know* he's not *that* Matt Dillon, but still :) : :DES :-- :Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no Well, shoot! My dream girl's a comic strip character! :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 17:28: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76CD151C3 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:28:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05080; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:27:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd005053; Tue Mar 9 18:27:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19325; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:27:42 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903100127.SAA19325@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) To: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:27:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett Taylor" at Mar 9, 99 03:02:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've told you two times now there are plenty of ways to contribute by > maintaining ports. Hell, you don't even have to become the maintainer. > Take a port that doesn't work under 2.2.8 now due to the changeover to > ELF. Fix it so it works for 2.2.8 without breaking it for -STABLE. Make > a diff, send-pr to ports and get it committed. It's not that hard. You > don't have to ask anyone. You don't _need_ permission to go futz w/ the > port from the maintainer. You SHOULD submit your diffs to him before > doing the send-pr but that's not a big deal. If you want to be really > polite you would send an email saying "I'm trying to make this port work > for 2.2.8 wo/ breaking the -STABLE build. I'll send you any diffs when I > get this done." I seriously doubt that any maintainer would mind. Actually, I've often wondered what effort, if any, was given over to pushing FreeBSD patches back from the ports tree to the original maintainers of the code? It would seem to me that that would be a far more effective long term win, since it will mean that: 1) The patches don't get "stale" if they are rolled into the main source tree. 2) You don't have to depend on a port maintainer caring about your application of the port. 3) The code that results should maintain backward compatability across FreeBSD releases by virtue of not having release specific patches in it. 4) It offloads the maintenance onto the original source base, freeing up peoples time to do things like maintaining a backward compatability theme (if they care), doing more ports (if they care), or otherwise allowing them to pursue stuff that's more rewarding than getting yelled at on -chat. One thing that someone could contribute would be to go through the various patches, and roll them back (if they aren't just hacks) to the original maintainers. If someone did this, they'd be able to get the gratitude of both communities, instead of the ignomany of one. Brett? If you are still interested in volunteering on some code project, this would be one for which the powers that be could neither hinder nor veto. An excellent opportunity for a cowboy... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 18:44:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749E71508B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24343; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:43:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:43:55 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Terry Lambert Cc: brett@lariat.org, wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) In-Reply-To: <199903100127.SAA19325@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > Actually, I've often wondered what effort, if any, was given over to > pushing FreeBSD patches back from the ports tree to the original > maintainers of the code? This obviously gets done some. I remember this happening for the pine port and a few others (asapm, xosview, etc). Back when I had time to maintain the AfterStep port I was stuffing back the patches to the development team, which they appreciated. When the first AS-devel port came out I had 5 or 6 patches in there and now there are none (admittedly the distribution has changed as they don't include all of the AS apps anymore but...). It's definitely the way to go. > Brett? If you are still interested in volunteering on some code > project, this would be one for which the powers that be could neither > hinder nor veto. An excellent opportunity for a cowboy... Brett Taylor *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 18:51:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD5715105 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA19174; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:21:49 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA16369; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:20:37 +0930 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:20:36 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Terry Lambert Cc: Brett Taylor , brett@lariat.org, wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) In-Reply-To: <199903100127.SAA19325@usr06.primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > Actually, I've often wondered what effort, if any, was given over > to pushing FreeBSD patches back from the ports tree to the original > maintainers of the code? It's pretty much up to the maintainer, and depends on how amenable the developers are to discussion of changes. If the patches provide a functional change, or fix build incompatabilities, chances are fairly good it will be accepted back into the next version (I've seen lots of these). In my experience most authors of small (e.g. Linux-developed) code projects are only too pleased to accept patches which provide FreeBSD support, so they can get their name in lights on freshmeat with "Now provides XXX compatability" in the release announcement :-) A lot of the patches in the ports tree are just tweaking to massage things into the FreeBSD directory scheme, which aren't so likely to be merged (unless the author was doing something stupid like installing files into a blatantly bad place). There are a lot of patches which provide demonstrable benefit however. > One thing that someone could contribute would be to go through the > various patches, and roll them back (if they aren't just hacks) to There are quite a few hacks which would need to be cleaned up before being merged - i.e. breaking compatability with non-freebsd builds. Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 19: 5:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC3814F93 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA18781; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:04:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990309194523.04046c40@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 20:04:22 -0700 To: Brett Taylor From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990309142131.00ca2cc0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:02 PM 3/9/99 -0700, Brett Taylor wrote: >And do you not patch security holes in the OS? Only when necessary. And there are very few. >You have to do that by >hand since you apparently only run releases. You are completely >inconsistent - you are apparently happy to patch security holes in the OS >but not in the ports. That's not what I said. Again, the biggest problem is the downloading of ports that are old versions with unfixed security problems. One might not know that these need to be patched. >> Give me a break. The two most recent offers I've made to "give back" >> have been rejected. One of these -- an offer to devote a bunch of time >> to getting FreeBSD running on IBM Netfinity servers -- was rejected >> rather capriciously. Such treatment doesn't exactly make folks feel as >> if contributions are welcome. > >Maybe that's because you insulted Mike Smith when you did it? I didn't insult anyone. After Mike's initial response, it became clear that he might have overlooked something, so I tried to explain -- not by insulting him but in clear technical terms -- why it might be useful to try the plan of attack I had in mind. Terry Lambert, who also has experience in this area, concurred. Certainly, there was nothing to lose by allowing me to try, and I would have been willing to try other approaches if that one did not pan out. But instead of giving me the opportunity to do so, Mike simply dismissed my offer and dropped off the thread. >I don't >know how you think you come across to people, but you come off as a >know-it-all, I've never claimed to know it all; however, this is certainly the kind of work with which I have had a lot of experience. >not willing to actually contribute Non sequitur. I was volunteering to contribute a great deal of time and effort, if necessary. >whiner An uncalled-for pejorative. "I'm voicing legitimate concerns. You're a whiner." >who hates the GPL. Again, an uncalled-for pejorative. I have critically examined the GPL and its intended and actual effects, and have found much evidence to support the assertion that it will do a great deal of harm to markets, consumers, and programmers' livelihoods. That's not "hate;" it's careful analysis and foresight. >I've told you two times now there are plenty of ways to contribute by >maintaining ports. Hell, you don't even have to become the maintainer. >Take a port that doesn't work under 2.2.8 now due to the changeover to >ELF. Fix it so it works for 2.2.8 without breaking it for -STABLE. Make >a diff, send-pr to ports and get it committed. It's not that hard. You >don't have to ask anyone. You don't _need_ permission to go futz w/ the >port from the maintainer. You SHOULD submit your diffs to him before >doing the send-pr but that's not a big deal. If you want to be really >polite you would send an email saying "I'm trying to make this port work >for 2.2.8 wo/ breaking the -STABLE build. I'll send you any diffs when I >get this done." I seriously doubt that any maintainer would mind. This would not be an efficient solution, as I would have less knowledge of the port than the maintainer and it would only fix one port. I propose that a mechanism be BUILT INTO the ports system to make it easy to maintain ports for versions of the OS which are up to a year old. >Everyone else who has been on this thread is listed as a developer or >contributor in the handbook. You are not. True. Again, I've been interested in contributing, but my proposals seem to have been rebuffed by the Great Inner Cabal. >All of us have spent time actually working on making FreeBSD better. So have I, but only on the systems that I myself maintain. My attempts to contribute that code back have not been met with a warm reception. I hope you can understand why, after two or three attempts, I've been discouraged. >Yes, you've written articles. Very good ones, I think. >Great. Then you antagonize all of the Linux (and BSD) people about the >GPL My remarks have only been seen as antagonistic by a few zealots. I've received a LOT of private mail of the form, "Thank you for alerting me to this. I don't want to get flamed, so I'm saying so in private." >and take a pool of people who might switch to FreeBSD and push them >away. I have seen no evidence that ANYONE has actually failed to switch to FreeBSD on my account. As far as I know, the one flamer who claimed that has now admitted that he was just flaming. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 19:18: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8CA14C58 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA18940; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:17:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990309200513.0411b840@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 20:05:53 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903100127.SAA19325@usr06.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:27 AM 3/10/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >One thing that someone could contribute would be to go through the >various patches, and roll them back (if they aren't just hacks) to >the original maintainers. If someone did this, they'd be able to >get the gratitude of both communities, instead of the ignomany of >one. > >Brett? If you are still interested in volunteering on some code >project, this would be one for which the powers that be could >neither hinder nor veto. An excellent opportunity for a cowboy... I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind, but I'd be interested in hearing these ideas fleshed out. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 21:18:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54CE14FF4 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (allenc.verinet.com [199.45.180.181]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA08506 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:18:07 -0700 Received: from verinet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by struct. (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA01584 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:17:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Message-ID: <36E6007D.2C9E8BDD@verinet.com> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:17:49 -0700 From: Allen Campbell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: URL and TCPMUX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While discussing port number assignments for a pile of engineering applications, I brought up the subject of RFC1078 TCPMUX while a web developer was present. He had not heard of TCPMUX before, but he immediately saw that it would be a useful way to supplant the port number component of the URL with something a bit more flexible; a service name. This seems to be a reasonable and obvious idea, so I read the relevant parts of the central URL RFCs (1738 and 2396) and searched the rest. AFAICT, this is an original idea among the published RFCs. Comments? -- Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 22:31: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF2814E85 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-73-220.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.73.220]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25181 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA17191 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:21:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199903100621.BAA17191@bellsouth.net> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: sm@rt-seller mention Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:21:04 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Reseller rag mentions FreeBSD in GNOME article: http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/news/0,4538,2220029,00.html Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 22:55:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CE414F52 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id RAA21175; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:25:52 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA29508; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:24:36 +0930 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:24:34 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990309194523.04046c40@localhost> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > This would not be an efficient solution, as I would have less knowledge > of the port than the maintainer and it would only fix one port. I propose > that a mechanism be BUILT INTO the ports system to make it easy to maintain > ports for versions of the OS which are up to a year old. Such as what? Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 9 23:57:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7372514DA8 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.88]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA6BBB; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:57:17 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA49607; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:57:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903100127.SAA19325@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:57:41 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, brett@lariat.org, (Brett Taylor) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 10-Mar-99 Terry Lambert wrote: >> I've told you two times now there are plenty of ways to contribute by >> maintaining ports. Hell, you don't even have to become the maintainer. >> Take a port that doesn't work under 2.2.8 now due to the changeover to >> ELF. Fix it so it works for 2.2.8 without breaking it for -STABLE. >> Make >> a diff, send-pr to ports and get it committed. It's not that hard. You >> don't have to ask anyone. You don't _need_ permission to go futz w/ the >> port from the maintainer. You SHOULD submit your diffs to him before >> doing the send-pr but that's not a big deal. If you want to be really >> polite you would send an email saying "I'm trying to make this port work >> for 2.2.8 wo/ breaking the -STABLE build. I'll send you any diffs when >> I get this done." I seriously doubt that any maintainer would mind. > > Actually, I've often wondered what effort, if any, was given over > to pushing FreeBSD patches back from the ports tree to the original > maintainers of the code? I know I do, Zebra, GTk+/Glib, libtool, automake, autoconf are on my list for which I try to build the lastest releases ASAP and send patches back that will at least allow for flawless (albeit with warnings at times) compilations. If I don't succeed I'll nag whatever lists necessary to come to an answer. > It would seem to me that that would be a far more effective long > term win, since it will mean that: > > 1) The patches don't get "stale" if they are rolled into the > main source tree. Correct, which also means that the number of patches would decrease. > 2) You don't have to depend on a port maintainer caring about > your application of the port. True, in this case one could easily get a package from the net (which is in the ports) and just compile and install it. > 3) The code that results should maintain backward compatability > across FreeBSD releases by virtue of not having release > specific patches in it. *nods* This would be desirable because although I'm a CURRENT follower for reasons, there are tons of stations who still run 2.2.x (some machines at work). > 4) It offloads the maintenance onto the original source base, > freeing up peoples time to do things like maintaining a > backward compatability theme (if they care), doing more > ports (if they care), or otherwise allowing them to pursue > stuff that's more rewarding than getting yelled at on -chat. > > One thing that someone could contribute would be to go through the > various patches, and roll them back (if they aren't just hacks) to > the original maintainers. If someone did this, they'd be able to > get the gratitude of both communities, instead of the ignomany of > one. Either way, hacks remain dirty tricks. Surely maintainers and sourcewriters could come to a solution given some time discussing it. I know I got some dirty tricks out of the total system of GTk+. I think that in the end we'll all benefit from it, the main coders will keep FreeBSD more in mind, the current porters get an easier job, the general *BSD community will be able to compile more from the net. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 1:12:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25FAD14D8E for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:11:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.196]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3CC9; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:20 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA49680; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990309200513.0411b840@localhost> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:44 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, (Brett Taylor) , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 10-Mar-99 Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:27 AM 3/10/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >>One thing that someone could contribute would be to go through the >>various patches, and roll them back (if they aren't just hacks) to >>the original maintainers. If someone did this, they'd be able to >>get the gratitude of both communities, instead of the ignomany of >>one. >> >>Brett? If you are still interested in volunteering on some code >>project, this would be one for which the powers that be could >>neither hinder nor veto. An excellent opportunity for a cowboy... > > I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind, but I'd be interested > in hearing these ideas fleshed out. It's easy, pick a couple of yer favourite ports, look at the patches, see what they try to manipulate in the general application source and then try to get these changes, if ligit, merged into the main development sources. If not ligit, work things out with the writers, etc, etc. C'est ca. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5: 6:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D98C14C92 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16282; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:05:24 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA68829; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:05:18 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:05:17 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Brett Glass Cc: Brett Taylor , wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: volunteering (was Re: Ports) Message-ID: <19990310140517.A68675@bitbox.follo.net> References: <4.1.19990309142131.00ca2cc0@localhost> <4.1.19990309194523.04046c40@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990309194523.04046c40@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Mar 09, 1999 at 08:04:22PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 09, 1999 at 08:04:22PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > >All of us have spent time actually working on making FreeBSD better. > > So have I, but only on the systems that I myself maintain. My attempts > to contribute that code back have not been met with a warm reception. > I hope you can understand why, after two or three attempts, I've been > discouraged. We have a serious problem with this. I'm not sure how to handle it - the answer might be to change to having a hierarchy of PR systems, with the maintainers of the "lower level" ones able to shift PRs to the system "above" them, and some form of policy of "patches go in unless there are specific reasons why they shouldn't go in". It isn't certain that the above would work, either, but it seems pretty clear that the present "problem report" handling discourage a lot of contributors. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:10:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824DC1510F for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA88175; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:09:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Pat Lynch Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, members@funy.org Subject: Re: FUNY Inaugural Meeting References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 10 Mar 1999 14:09:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: Pat Lynch's message of "Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:39:24 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pat Lynch writes: > We kicked off dinner about 8:30 by ordering some kickass Indian food Kickass indeed. That was one helluva dinner :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:11:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AAF714E6A for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16994; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:11:24 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA68877; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:11:19 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:11:19 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Pat Lynch , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, chris@netmonger.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? Message-ID: <19990310141119.B68675@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199903061423.JAA00359@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199903061423.JAA00359@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 09:23:31AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 09:23:31AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Pat Lynch said: > > at this point, I want to step in and mention a phenomenon that seems to be > > happening everywhere. It happened to me, and its happening to alot of > > people I know. > > > > X installs linux, X likes linux, Y says "Try FreeBSD", Y happens to be > > somewhat of a "guru" in FreeBSD, X respects Y, X listens, X tries FreeBSD, > > X *loves* FreeBSD, X starts to get clued and starts spreading the word. > > > > I think its this type of "Grassroots" marketing that works very well for > > us. > > Well, that is encouraging... I wonder if that has enough impact to > effect a critical mass for FreeBSD? I'll just note that at least 1/2 of the people I see that start with FreeBSD has already tried Linux. I'm one of them myself - I started with Linux, and tested FreeBSD due to recommendations from one of my friends (now a coworker). Using FreeBSD felt sort of like "coming home" - the system felt lived in, with most of the sharp edges gone. So I stayed :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:17:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87241150F6 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:17:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA96978; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:17:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Nocturne Cc: John Saunders , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Watson Subject: Re: 3.1 Release splash image References: <19990302042729.21840.qmail@nhj.nlc.net.au> <36DBA62D.C51D28B7@uswest.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 10 Mar 1999 14:17:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nocturne's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 1999 00:49:49 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nocturne writes: > I didn't see it mention which encoding method to use for the bitmap. > Should the bitmaps be run-length or RGB? I think both are supported, as long as they're 256-color. RTFS (or ask Mike Smith) for details. > My $.02: PNG and vector support would be great. PNG support is on the way. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:22:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F95150F6 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA58824; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:19:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:19:47 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Joe Shevland Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Java wrapper/Jikes question In-Reply-To: <000001be6ab5$78369360$6e01a8c0@tasshev.turnaround.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Joe Shevland wrote: > Sounds good, I still haven't experienced any problems (and geez its fast!). > > Just by-the-by, GnuJSP is Gnu's Java Server Pages implementation of the JSP > 0.91 specification. JSP pages work very similar to MS's Active Server Pages > (dynamic page generation based on scripting tags and embedded objects). So > you can embed Java code in HTML for things like db access, session tracking > etc. Just in passing, I think that, this one time, the GNU people are doing something very unethical. I like it when they write software that replaces stuff that isn't openly available, but Sun has been making the entire Java thing as open as anyone could possibly wish for. The fact that they found a way to do this and make money isn't bad, it's a great stroke of good luck, and the free software world (you and I) want to encourage this stuff. The GNU people haven't made this any more open, they've only made it obvious to Sun that their own copyright is nearly worthless, because GNU is going to follow on and turn it into a copyleft. Seeing as what Sun is doing (and IBM too!) is so out of the ordinary, and great for software hackers like us, I just wish those GNU guys would go attack a different target. I want to encourage Sun and IBM, not insult them. Note I moved this to -chat, because it's non-technical. I won't respond to this on the java list, please be kind about that. > > It operates using a single servlet and an Apache action handler for *.jsp > files. Any time after the *.jsp file changes, and then 'hit' by a client, it > is recompiled into a servlet class and loaded into memory. That's one of the > beauties of JSP, the servlets remain in memory so there's no latency for > loading from disk i.e CGI. Is there a http: address for the JSP stuff? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:32:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7BB15115 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:32:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA09464; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:32:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Alex Perel Cc: W Gerald Hicks , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The GPL might kill itself ? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 10 Mar 1999 14:32:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: Alex Perel's message of "Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:15:16 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel writes: > On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > http://www.opentelecom.org/ > Is it me, or does that site look STRANGELY like www.freebsd.org? I > suppose we can take this as collective flattery, but I find it disturbing. Yeah, look at the source. It's a very obvious rip of www.freebsd.org, but it looks like a manual job (not generated from SGML). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:36:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBD6150CB for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA10562; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:34:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The GPL might kill itself ? References: <19990303223610E.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> <19990305100635.N5328@lehman.com> <36E03AD3.F178DABE@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 10 Mar 1999 14:34:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni"'s message of "Fri, 05 Mar 1999 15:13:07 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Pedro F. Giffuni" writes: > Hmm...maybe I should send a message like this to Whistle.com : the last > time I looked, Netcraft reported they were using a M$ machine ! des@bolm ~% telnet www.whistle.com http Trying 207.76.204.21... Connected to www.whistle.com. Escape character is '^]'. HEAD / HTTP/1.0 HTTP/1.0 200 OK Server: Microsoft-IIS/3.0 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:30:59 GMT Content-Type: text/html Accept-Ranges: bytes Last-Modified: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:46:36 GMT Content-Length: 1578 Connection closed by foreign host. I suspect it's so the marketroids can use their beloved FrontPage to update the site. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:37: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [207.23.37.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F715145 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@hades.riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09400 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 (PST) From: To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? In-Reply-To: <19990310141119.B68675@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I guess I'll toss something in here... I was a Linux guy for quite a while, ran a lot of servers with Linux, got pretty familiar with it... and then I tried FreeBSD. And it was really great, as far as initial installation and getting new software to work on it. The kernel configuration is easy to use, and actually pretty cool the way you can have multiple profiles and stuff. The ports collection is probably the single coolest thing I've ever seen in a distribution. No Linux distro has anything that comes close to comparing to that. On the plus side, it appears to be really nice and stable as a web server or mail server, no problems encountered there. Software installs seamlessly on it, whereas on a Linux server half the time I have to go in and tweak some minor environment variable or some such because every distro's a whole new breed. It was a matter of running 'make install' to go from a console only machine to a fully functional X-windows machine with Enlightenment installed. Unfortunately, it's irritatingly arcane in certain areas, and some parts of it are utterly ridiculous (the partitioning system.. who made that up???). If there were more documentation, and a better directory hierarchy it'd be a whole lot better. Also, if the TCP/IP stack was a whole lot better, and a whole lot more useful, that'd be a big plus. Check out the features that Linux 2.2's got going right now. It's also a lot harder to get FreeBSD to interoperate with other OS'. In Linux, if I bring up a standard distro, it's trivial to mount and work with the filesystems of other OS'. FreeBSD gave me grief about the way I'd partitioned my first drive, and totally corrupted my second ext2 drive. It didn't want to touch my second partition on my first drive because of a missing label problem, and the fdisk program was crippled in usability compared to the partitioning programs that even MS-DOS comes with. Browsing through the kernel source, a good deal of that code is just weird and idiosyncratic. Like that whole 'root/swap/whole disk/other stuff' partitioning scheme that you appear to have to use. The process of making a new filesystem newfs program is painful and unnecessarily complex when compared to the mkfs style programs that Linux comes with. NFS didn't work all that great with my Linux or Solaris NFS servers or clients. In fact, it was totally non-functional with files over 200 bytes talking to a Linux NFS server (with both knfsd and nfsd). It worked great when talking to other FreeBSD servers. Anyhow, that's just my experience so far. I'm not going to run FreeBSD as a workstation again. I'm thinking of using it as a server for some essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 09:23:31AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Pat Lynch said: > > > at this point, I want to step in and mention a phenomenon that seems to be > > > happening everywhere. It happened to me, and its happening to alot of > > > people I know. > > > > > > X installs linux, X likes linux, Y says "Try FreeBSD", Y happens to be > > > somewhat of a "guru" in FreeBSD, X respects Y, X listens, X tries FreeBSD, > > > X *loves* FreeBSD, X starts to get clued and starts spreading the word. > > > > > > I think its this type of "Grassroots" marketing that works very well for > > > us. > > > > Well, that is encouraging... I wonder if that has enough impact to > > effect a critical mass for FreeBSD? > > I'll just note that at least 1/2 of the people I see that start with > FreeBSD has already tried Linux. I'm one of them myself - I started > with Linux, and tested FreeBSD due to recommendations from one of my > friends (now a coworker). Using FreeBSD felt sort of like "coming > home" - the system felt lived in, with most of the sharp edges gone. > So I stayed :-) > > Eivind. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 5:43:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (webbsd1.turnaround.com.au [203.39.138.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C40015353 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Received: from TurnAround.com.au (ras3.turnaround.com.au [192.168.1.114]) by WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05131; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:46:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Message-ID: <36E673A0.BFC4C99A@TurnAround.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:29:04 +1100 From: Joe Shevland Organization: Turnaround Solutions Pty. Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Java wrapper/Jikes question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I must say I don't know much about the Gnu licensing and how it affects the free software world (and in this case I haven't read the fine print) though I'm open to information. If its restrictive in any way I'll drop it and move on to one of the other alternatives (luckily there's a few). I've heard grumbles about the Gnu licensing but haven't looked in to the problems with it. The GnuJSP implementation (version 0.9.8) is at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~vincentp/gnujsp/ Sun's reference page (specification version 0.92) is at: http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/ Regards, Joe. Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Joe Shevland wrote: > > > Sounds good, I still haven't experienced any problems (and geez its fast!). > > > > Just by-the-by, GnuJSP is Gnu's Java Server Pages implementation of the JSP > > 0.91 specification. JSP pages work very similar to MS's Active Server Pages > > (dynamic page generation based on scripting tags and embedded objects). So > > you can embed Java code in HTML for things like db access, session tracking > > etc. > > Just in passing, I think that, this one time, the GNU people are doing > something very unethical. I like it when they write software that > replaces stuff that isn't openly available, but Sun has been making the > entire Java thing as open as anyone could possibly wish for. The fact > that they found a way to do this and make money isn't bad, it's a great > stroke of good luck, and the free software world (you and I) want to > encourage this stuff. The GNU people haven't made this any more open, > they've only made it obvious to Sun that their own copyright is nearly > worthless, because GNU is going to follow on and turn it into a > copyleft. > > Seeing as what Sun is doing (and IBM too!) is so out of the ordinary, > and great for software hackers like us, I just wish those GNU guys would > go attack a different target. I want to encourage Sun and IBM, not > insult them. > > Note I moved this to -chat, because it's non-technical. I won't respond > to this on the java list, please be kind about that. > > > > > It operates using a single servlet and an Apache action handler for *.jsp > > files. Any time after the *.jsp file changes, and then 'hit' by a client, it > > is recompiled into a servlet class and loaded into memory. That's one of the > > beauties of JSP, the servlets remain in memory so there's no latency for > > loading from disk i.e CGI. > > Is there a http: address for the JSP stuff? > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- -- Joe Shevland Principal Consultant TurnAround Solutions Pty Ltd http://www.turnaround.com.au/ -- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 6: 9:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD9F14C4A for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA59984; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:07:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:07:44 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Joe Shevland Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Java wrapper/Jikes question In-Reply-To: <36E673A0.BFC4C99A@TurnAround.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Joe Shevland wrote: > Hi, > > I must say I don't know much about the Gnu licensing and how it affects > the free software world (and in this case I haven't read the fine print) > though I'm open to information. If its restrictive in any way I'll drop > it and move on to one of the other alternatives (luckily there's a few). > I've heard grumbles about the Gnu licensing but haven't looked in to the > problems with it. Thanks for the web reference, but you misread me in a minor way. It isn't that the GNU license is more restrictive, it isn't. It's the fact that, for no good reason, they're taking anything that Sun does and rewriting it, and re-releaseing it under the copyleft. This means that anything Sun tries to do with repsect to their own very liberal license won't count. This is good, if the original authors are making their stuff closed, so as to extort funds, but Sun is making their's open, and this reduces the GNU effort, in effect, to an overwriting of the copyright. That's just petty. > > The GnuJSP implementation (version 0.9.8) is at: > http://www.xs4all.nl/~vincentp/gnujsp/ > > Sun's reference page (specification version 0.92) is at: > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/ > > Regards, > Joe. > > Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Joe Shevland wrote: > > > > > Sounds good, I still haven't experienced any problems (and geez its fast!). > > > > > > Just by-the-by, GnuJSP is Gnu's Java Server Pages implementation of the JSP > > > 0.91 specification. JSP pages work very similar to MS's Active Server Pages > > > (dynamic page generation based on scripting tags and embedded objects). So > > > you can embed Java code in HTML for things like db access, session tracking > > > etc. > > > > Just in passing, I think that, this one time, the GNU people are doing > > something very unethical. I like it when they write software that > > replaces stuff that isn't openly available, but Sun has been making the > > entire Java thing as open as anyone could possibly wish for. The fact > > that they found a way to do this and make money isn't bad, it's a great > > stroke of good luck, and the free software world (you and I) want to > > encourage this stuff. The GNU people haven't made this any more open, > > they've only made it obvious to Sun that their own copyright is nearly > > worthless, because GNU is going to follow on and turn it into a > > copyleft. > > > > Seeing as what Sun is doing (and IBM too!) is so out of the ordinary, > > and great for software hackers like us, I just wish those GNU guys would > > go attack a different target. I want to encourage Sun and IBM, not > > insult them. > > > > Note I moved this to -chat, because it's non-technical. I won't respond > > to this on the java list, please be kind about that. > > > > > > > > It operates using a single servlet and an Apache action handler for *.jsp > > > files. Any time after the *.jsp file changes, and then 'hit' by a client, it > > > is recompiled into a servlet class and loaded into memory. That's one of the > > > beauties of JSP, the servlets remain in memory so there's no latency for > > > loading from disk i.e CGI. > > > > Is there a http: address for the JSP stuff? > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) > > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > -- > Joe Shevland > Principal Consultant > TurnAround Solutions Pty Ltd > http://www.turnaround.com.au/ > -- > FreeBSD - The Power to Serve > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 6:25:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FBC1511E for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Kjuj-00061q-0A; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:24:50 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA03142; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:24:14 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06081; Wed, 10 Mar 99 14:24:12 GMT Message-Id: <36E6807B.2BD8FFCF@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:23:55 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Nathan Ahlstrom , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price wrote: > > Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment by W. Richard Stevens. > ISBN 0-201-56317-7. > > Unix Network Programming Volume 2: Interprocess Communications by > W. Richard Stevens. ISBN 0-130-81081-9. > > In fact I've found that just about all of Mr. Stevens books are > a must have on my shelf. One of his books even features excerpts > by one of our very own, Bill Fenner . :) > ..and Nathan Ahlstrom wrote: > http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/ ..and Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > R.W.Stevens series has a book, part II of the series, which is about IPC, > and is surprisingly called: Unix Networkprogramming: Interprocess > Communications. ... and Narvi wrote: > What about /usr/share/doc/psd/ ? Thanks for all these pointers guys. I tried them all, except for buying Richard Stevens' books, although I did d/l the source code for all the examples in the books. I've spent several hours reading through it all. Unfortunately most of the examples show one-way communication between child and parent, which is not what I need (I've got that bit working). I have managed to get what I'm trying to do *nearly* working. and have included the code I've used below. I would appreciate it very much if someone could spare a few minutes to look at it for me and point out what's wrong. I'm certain that what I'm trying to do is simple but there is something about IPC that I haven't quite grasped. As an excercise, applying the KISS principle, I've got a simple prog, d2c, that asks for a circle diameter and returns the circumference. When run from the command line it does this (user enters the "34"): % d2c Diameter: 34 Circumference = 106.814150 % Now I want to start this from another program to read and write to it. popen() seemed the function to use as it returns a FILE* which implies that I can just use f{print,scan}f() to communicate with the popen()'d program so I wrote this program: #include #include void main() { FILE *prog; char input[BUFSIZ], result[BUFSIZ]; int diam = 34; if ((prog = popen("/usr/radan/d2c", "r+")) == NULL) { perror("Failed"); exit(0); } fscanf(prog, "%s", input); if (strstr(input, "Diameter")) { fprintf(prog, "%d\n", diam); fscanf(prog, "%s", result); printf("RESULT! - %s\n", result); } else printf("Didn't work\n"); } The problem is it doesn't work, just hangs :-(. Stepping through it in gdb shows that the first fscanf never returns, it just sits there waiting. I tried using fgets(), fread(), read() instead but still no luck. The only thing I did that made it work (sort of) is by adding fprintf(prog, "34\n")'' before the first fscanf(). I then find that, after fscanf() returns ``input'' contains *both* outputs from ``d2c'', i.e. "Diameter: Circumference = 106.814150" although not the ``34'' sent by the fprintf(). This suggests that I'm nearly right (there is communication established) but not completely. I would be very grateful of any help. Thanks. -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 6:42: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0357E14E8C for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-68-117.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.68.117]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16296; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:41:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA42219; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:32:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: des@flood.ping.uio.no Cc: veers@disturbed.net, wghicks@bellsouth.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The GPL might kill itself ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "10 Mar 1999 14:32:17 +0100" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990310093217E.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:32:17 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 40 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav > > Alex Perel writes: > > On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > > http://www.opentelecom.org/ > > Is it me, or does that site look STRANGELY like www.freebsd.org? I > > suppose we can take this as collective flattery, but I find it disturbing. > > Yeah, look at the source. It's a very obvious rip of www.freebsd.org, > but it looks like a manual job (not generated from SGML). > Uh, oh... This may have something to do with the FreeBSD CDs I've been lobbing at Natural Microsystems over the past three years. Guess it had the desired effect. ;-) Did you cover the content of the site? We do switch code here and were pretty excited about the release of driver software for Lucent T8100 switch chips. (Even if it *is* Microsquish Win32 code) The call control API and CompactPCI hot-swap code appear interestesting to me as well. IMHO, it's high time the computer-telephony server market met FreeBSD. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 6:59:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F155D15064 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25521; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:58:45 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36E688D9.C2386C02@trltech.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:59:37 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? References: <36E6807B.2BD8FFCF@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark, I would guess that the problem is buffered output. In _both_ programs you need a fflush() after each fprintf(). Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 9:35:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0138F14CA5 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:35:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03225; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:35:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990310123528.A27136@netmonger.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:35:28 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Book/URL on C programming (inter-process comms)? References: <36E6807B.2BD8FFCF@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36E6807B.2BD8FFCF@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 02:23:55PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 02:23:55PM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > I've spent several hours reading through it all. Unfortunately most of > the examples show one-way communication between child and parent, > which is not what I need (I've got that bit working). > > I have managed to get what I'm trying to do *nearly* working. and have > included the code I've used below. I would appreciate it very much if > someone could spare a few minutes to look at it for me and point out > what's wrong. I'm certain that what I'm trying to do is simple but > there is something about IPC that I haven't quite grasped. Well, first of all, there are some major problems with trying to do that. You can very easily get into a deadlock if you write something and block, or if you try to read something and it's not there. To do it safely, you'll need non-blocking I/O or alarms, which takes things out of the realm of a simple example. Secondly, you're using the wrong language. scanf is not going to cooperate with unexpected input, and you'll probably be throwing stdio away anyway due to reason 1. You can find a couple of examples of bidirectional communication in the perlipc man page, along with some stern warnings. Also read perlfaq8's answer to the question, "How can I open a pipe both to and from a command?". -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 10:10: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A9F1514C for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:09:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14751 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:09:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:09:35 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: new feature for login : simple chrooting, ready to test Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I got the chroot option added to login, and it seems to work perfectly for me here and at home. I don't want to post it on my home site until it's been tested a bit more though, so if anyone wants to help with this let me know and I will email you a copy of the patch. The patch is about 1.1k and only adds about 250 bytes to the login.c code. It converts group 80 to specify a user to be chrooted, and will use a capability in their login class called chroot if it's specified, and their home directory if it isn't. :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 10:27:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE2D15190 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eT@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08286 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:26:57 +0100 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1beta6) id kwa08283; Wed Mar 10 19:26:44 1999 Received: from borg.kryptokom.de (borg.Kryptokom.DE [192.168.6.132]) by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13803 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:29:47 +0100 Received: from kryptokom.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00285 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:33:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eT@kryptokom.de) Message-ID: <36E6BAFF.AAC67E68@kryptokom.de> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:33:36 +0100 From: eT Organization: KryptoKom GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-19980804-SNAP i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: click here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hey guys.. please click the following link and tell me if you think i'm crazy? http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/2647/freebsd.html i'm trying to start up a project for writing a document describing how to write a device driver for FreeBSD. i know that some documents exist, but that they seem to be way outdated and not maintained. i would appreciate your comments. eT "we've only just begun..." -- Etienne de Bruin; edebruin@iname.com visit eT on the web: http://listen.to/eT (last update: 20 Feb 1999) "i wish i was the ground, for 50 million hands upraised and open towards the sky" - pearl jam, wish list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 12:57:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AC4153C4 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59525 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:56:28 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:56:28 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Another article for the archives... Message-ID: <19990310225627.C4787@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, http://opensource.oreilly.com/news/scoville_0399.html Mentions BSD as playing an important role in free software, but completely misses the fact that there are more licences than the GPL, and more at stake than the whole RMS vs ESR debate... Unfortunately doesn't have an email address for the author. Regards, -Jeremy -- | What will people think when they hear that I'm a Jesus freak? --+-- What will people do when they find that it's true? | I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak, | There ain't no disguising the truth. - d c Talk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 10 15:27: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hecke.math.rochester.edu (hecke.math.rochester.edu [128.151.122.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA5514C3B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hfir@math.rochester.edu) Received: from poincare.math.rochester.edu (poincare.math.rochester.edu [128.151.122.14]) by hecke.math.rochester.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA32392; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:21:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hfir@math.rochester.edu) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:21:34 -0500 From: Hoss Firooznia To: Jeremy Lea Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another article for the archives... In-Reply-To: <19990310225627.C4787@shale.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jeremy Lea wrote: > http://opensource.oreilly.com/news/scoville_0399.html > > Mentions BSD as playing an important role in free software, but > completely misses the fact that there are more licences than the GPL, > and more at stake than the whole RMS vs ESR debate... Unfortunately > doesn't have an email address for the author. See . - Hoss To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 11:54: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (unknown [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C36915271 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:54:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21593 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:53:44 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021589; Thu, 11 Mar 99 14:52:46 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00554 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:52:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA20949; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:52:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:52:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903111952.OAA20949@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Starwars trailer? X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone been able to view the new SW trailer on a FreeBSD box? The quicktime version uses codecs unsupported by xanim, and the mpg version that I found won't play sound when played thru mpeg_play. Viren -- Viren R. Shah, {viren @ rstcorp . com} "Hi, I'm a hero, but I can't tell you why. It's classified." -- Miles muses on one of the disadvantages of a double life (Lois McMaster Bujold, Cetaganda) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 16:11:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id AE10B14BD2; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:11:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: unknown@hades.riverstyx.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (unknown@hades.riverstyx.net) Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? References: Message-Id: <19990312001134.AE10B14BD2@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:11:34 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 (PST) > From: [snip] > essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's > really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable > in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again > that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get > information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... [snip] well, Yahoo!, hotmail and Walnu > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 09:23:31AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > Pat Lynch said: > > > > at this point, I want to step in and mention a phenomenon that seems to be > > > > happening everywhere. It happened to me, and its happening to alot of > > > > people I know. > > > > > > > > X installs linux, X likes linux, Y says "Try FreeBSD", Y happens to be > > > > somewhat of a "guru" in FreeBSD, X respects Y, X listens, X tries FreeBSD, > > > > X *loves* FreeBSD, X starts to get clued and starts spreading the word. > > > > > > > > I think its this type of "Grassroots" marketing that works very well for > > > > us. > > > > > > Well, that is encouraging... I wonder if that has enough impact to > > > effect a critical mass for FreeBSD? > > > > I'll just note that at least 1/2 of the people I see that start with > > FreeBSD has already tried Linux. I'm one of them myself - I started > > with Linux, and tested FreeBSD due to recommendations from one of my > > friends (now a coworker). Using FreeBSD felt sort of like "coming > > home" - the system felt lived in, with most of the sharp edges gone. > > So I stayed :-) > > > > Eivind. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 16:14:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCA0152EA; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:14:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17246; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:15:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:15:42 -0800 (PST) From: To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? In-Reply-To: <19990312001134.AE10B14BD2@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 (PST) > > From: > [snip] > > essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's > > really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable > > in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again > > that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get > > information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... > [snip] > > well, Yahoo!, hotmail and Walnu And how does that help me? They're not going to sit down with my servers and make 'em work. There's no documentation for high performance BSD boxen out there. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 16:24:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F22152EA; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id QAA16139; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:23:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990311162314.A15432@best.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:23:15 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , unknown@hades.riverstyx.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? Mail-Followup-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , unknown@hades.riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990312001134.AE10B14BD2@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990312001134.AE10B14BD2@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:11:34PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:11:34PM -0800, "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 (PST) > > From: > [snip] > > essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's > > really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable > > in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again > > that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get > > information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... > [snip] > > well, Yahoo!, hotmail and Walnu I started a list of large/famous companies which use freebsd: http://www.best.com/~jkb/freebsd.html -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 16:44:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72CA9152F1 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:44:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA10379; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:44:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990311164421.11058@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:44:21 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there any general location for splash_screen images? I have one with a bit of CG from the upcoming film The Matrix.. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 18:31: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD57A14E07 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:30:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id DAA03356 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 03:30:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10LFj4-000WygC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:22:54 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Any BSD representation at CeBIT? Date: 12 Mar 1999 01:22:51 +0100 Message-ID: <7c9mor$o65$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The subject line says it all. CeBIT opens next week. Any BSD presence there? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de See another pointless homepage at . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 20:22:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shibumi.feralmonkey.org (shibumi.feralmonkey.org [203.41.114.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CC015138 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:22:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick@FERALMONKEY.ORG) Received: from shibumi (shibumi [203.41.114.182]) by shibumi.feralmonkey.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E278E7A3C; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:23:54 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:23:54 +1100 (EST) From: To: unknown@hades.riverstyx.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 unknown@hades.riverstyx.net wrote: > I guess I'll toss something in here... I was a Linux guy for quite a > while, ran a lot of servers with Linux, got pretty familiar with it... and > then I tried FreeBSD. And it was really great, as far as initial > installation and getting new software to work on it. > > The kernel configuration is easy to use, and actually pretty cool the way > you can have multiple profiles and stuff. The ports collection is > probably the single coolest thing I've ever seen in a distribution. No > Linux distro has anything that comes close to comparing to that. On the > plus side, it appears to be really nice and stable as a web server or mail > server, no problems encountered there. Software installs seamlessly on > it, whereas on a Linux server half the time I have to go in and tweak some > minor environment variable or some such because every distro's a whole new > breed. It was a matter of running 'make install' to go from a console > only machine to a fully functional X-windows machine with Enlightenment > installed. > > Unfortunately, it's irritatingly arcane in certain areas, and some parts > of it are utterly ridiculous (the partitioning system.. who made that > up???). If there were more documentation, and a better directory > hierarchy it'd be a whole lot better. Also, if the TCP/IP stack was a > whole lot better, and a whole lot more useful, that'd be a big plus. "whole lot better"? Offer constructive suggestions. And how exactly might it be made "a whole lot more useful"? > Check out the features that Linux 2.2's got going right now. It's also a > lot harder to get FreeBSD to interoperate with other OS'. In Linux, if I Define interoperate. > bring up a standard distro, it's trivial to mount and work with the > filesystems of other OS'. FreeBSD gave me grief about the way I'd > partitioned my first drive, and totally corrupted my second ext2 drive. It > didn't want to touch my second partition on my first drive because of a > missing label problem, and the fdisk program was crippled in usability > compared to the partitioning programs that even MS-DOS comes with. > Browsing through the kernel source, a good deal of that code is just weird ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > and idiosyncratic. Like that whole 'root/swap/whole disk/other stuff' ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This depends entirely on the perspective of the person viewing it. > partitioning scheme that you appear to have to use. The process of making > a new filesystem newfs program is painful and unnecessarily complex when > compared to the mkfs style programs that Linux comes with. NFS didn't > work all that great with my Linux or Solaris NFS servers or clients. In > fact, it was totally non-functional with files over 200 bytes talking to a > Linux NFS server (with both knfsd and nfsd). It worked great when talking > to other FreeBSD servers. > > Anyhow, that's just my experience so far. I'm not going to run FreeBSD as > a workstation again. I'm thinking of using it as a server for some > essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's > really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable > in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again > that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get I'm sure it is useable for those who take the time to learn it. Why do you think Yahoo! uses FreeBSD on their webfarm? > information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 06, 1999 at 09:23:31AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > Pat Lynch said: > > > > at this point, I want to step in and mention a phenomenon that seems to be > > > > happening everywhere. It happened to me, and its happening to alot of > > > > people I know. > > > > > > > > X installs linux, X likes linux, Y says "Try FreeBSD", Y happens to be > > > > somewhat of a "guru" in FreeBSD, X respects Y, X listens, X tries FreeBSD, > > > > X *loves* FreeBSD, X starts to get clued and starts spreading the word. > > > > > > > > I think its this type of "Grassroots" marketing that works very well for > > > > us. > > > > > > Well, that is encouraging... I wonder if that has enough impact to > > > effect a critical mass for FreeBSD? > > > > I'll just note that at least 1/2 of the people I see that start with > > FreeBSD has already tried Linux. I'm one of them myself - I started > > with Linux, and tested FreeBSD due to recommendations from one of my > > friends (now a coworker). Using FreeBSD felt sort of like "coming > > home" - the system felt lived in, with most of the sharp edges gone. > > So I stayed :-) > > > > Eivind. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- "We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough?" - Niels Bohr (1885 - 1962) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 11 20:26:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B8F0C15138 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 85532 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Mar 1999 04:25:18 -0000 Date: 11 Mar 1999 20:25:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:25:18 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: roomies Message-ID: <19990311202518.A85509@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So I actaully gathered the funds to make it to USENIX this year and was wondering if anyone else that is planning on attending is interested in spliting the cost of a hotel room. I saw that there was a similar forum for this on usenix.org but would rather associate myself with a fellow FreeBSDer that risk the possiblity of getting paired with some SysV guy (yuck) :) Email me if you are interested. -Bill -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me - so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. --Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 2:16:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422E514CB9 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:16:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id KAA10952; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:15:50 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id KAA24410; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:12:24 GMT Message-ID: <19990312101224.W23921@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:12:24 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? References: <19990312001134.AE10B14BD2@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from unknown@riverstyx.net on Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:15:42PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:15:42PM -0800, unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:37:07 -0800 (PST) > > > From: > > [snip] > > > essential services, like DNS and mail, 'coz from what I've heard, it's > > > really quite stable, but that's about it. It doesn't appear to be usable > > > in a really high performance environment for say, web hosting, but again > > > that's a matter of poor documentation and information. Where can I get > > > information like this? It's pretty sparse out there... > > [snip] > > > > well, Yahoo!, hotmail and Walnu > > And how does that help me? They're not going to sit down with my servers > and make 'em work. There's no documentation for high performance BSD > boxen out there. Have you looked? I admit, there's not a wall o' FreeBSD books down at your local bookstore, but don't forget that BSD *is* UNIX, so anything on 'doing with Unix' is probably applicable. Not that most of that stuff is worth the trees that died to produce it, but never mind. None of the software you'd use for web hosting is part of the OS anyway -- if you want to know how to drive Apache, go read a book on Apache. You want FreeBSD specific stuff? There's X-thousand users/developers on these mailing lists who are usually happy to help out anyone whose questions aren't preceded by 'your OS is shit, but help me out for free anyway'. If you search the mailing list archives you'll find plenty on how to build high-performance BSD boxen (eg, www.cdrom.com, probably the busiest FTP server on the planet). If you're prepared to put your money where your mouth is, there's probably someone in your area who'll "sit down with your servers and make 'em work", for a price. HTH. HAND, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 4:52:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat196.27.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.196.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C696714BE5 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 04:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA46416 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:52:04 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:52:04 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm just curious about something, that may (or may not) be logically explained... MP3 encoding. I downloaded a piece of software for my WinNT machine last night to do Ripping and Encoding, since I had a co-worker at work bragging about how fast he could rip/encode a CD. FreeBSD is on a PII-266, using a couple of different encoders (most recent: bladeenc), its takes ~20min per track, not including RIP time. WinNT 4.0 Workstation, on a Pentium 166...it takes ~5 minutes to RIP *and* encode that same track, including what the software calls "normalizing". Both are idle machines whil ethis is happening... Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 4:57:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D9214F59 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 04:57:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08276; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:26:38 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:26:37 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: The Hermit Hacker Subject: RE: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > FreeBSD is on a PII-266, using a couple of different encoders (most > recent: bladeenc), its takes ~20min per track, not including RIP time. > > WinNT 4.0 Workstation, on a Pentium 166...it takes ~5 minutes to RIP *and* > encode that same track, including what the software calls "normalizing". > > Both are idle machines whil ethis is happening... > > Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? Hmm.. well depends on the software.. Xing's older mp3 compressor used to filter out anything above 16khz :) Perhaps a listen test is in order. Also, which encoder under FreeBSD? I use bladenc, and on a PII-350 I get about 1:3.1 time (ie 1 min of real audio takes 3.1 minutes to compress) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 5:33:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat196.27.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.196.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B08E15169 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA46688; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:32:20 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:32:20 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 12-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > FreeBSD is on a PII-266, using a couple of different encoders (most > > recent: bladeenc), its takes ~20min per track, not including RIP time. > > > > WinNT 4.0 Workstation, on a Pentium 166...it takes ~5 minutes to RIP *and* > > encode that same track, including what the software calls "normalizing". > > > > Both are idle machines whil ethis is happening... > > > > Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? > Hmm.. well depends on the software.. Xing's older mp3 compressor used > to filter out anything above 16khz :) I'm using this one, and it reports that it goes up to 20khz ... sound quality appears fine... > Perhaps a listen test is in order. > > Also, which encoder under FreeBSD? As mentiond above...bladeenc :) > I use bladenc, and on a PII-350 I get about 1:3.1 time (ie 1 min of real audio takes 3.1 > minutes to compress) Am using a Pentium 166, tohoguh, for the WinNT machine, so would expect to get substantially worst timings then my PII-266 FreeBSD box...no? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 5:44:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A7B15326 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24670; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:13:40 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:13:39 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: The Hermit Hacker Subject: RE: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hmm.. well depends on the software.. Xing's older mp3 compressor used > > to filter out anything above 16khz :) > I'm using this one, and it reports that it goes up to 20khz ... sound > quality appears fine... OK then. > > Also, which encoder under FreeBSD? > As mentiond above...bladeenc :) heh.. > Am using a Pentium 166, tohoguh, for the WinNT machine, so would expect to > get substantially worst timings then my PII-266 FreeBSD box...no? Indeed.. These results are very strange.. Maybe you could try bladeenc on both.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 7:30:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (unknown [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3AE1537F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:30:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28991; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:30:25 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028983; Fri, 12 Mar 99 10:29:27 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03300; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:29:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA03498; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:29:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:29:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903121529.KAA03498@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: kelly@pluto.plutotech.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <199903112118.OAA20480@panzer.plutotech.com> References: <36E82F14.245EED42@plutotech.com> <199903112118.OAA20480@panzer.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>>>> "Ken" == Kenneth D Merry writes: Ken> Sean Kelly wrote... Ken> Yeah, works okay for me: Ken> {roadwarrior:/a/ken/dl:36:0} ls -la trailer320.mov Ken> -rw------- 1 ken staff 25275508 Nov 18 10:44 trailer320.mov That looks like it is the first SW trailer, not the new one which just came out yesterday: [vshah@jabberwock] ~/starwars> ls -la menace.mov -rw-r--r-- 1 vshah staff 26031487 Mar 12 10:25 menace.mov 863 [10:25am] [vshah@jabberwock] ~/starwars> xanim menace.mov XAnim Rev 2.70.7.0 by Mark Podlipec (c) 1991-1998 Video Codec: Sorenson Video not yet supported.(E18) QT: Sections of this movie use an unsupported Video Codec and are therefore NOT viewable. The new one has the Sorenson codec, which my version of xanim does not support. There's also an mpeg version out, but the only app that I know that can play that is mpeg_play which does video only (no audio). Thanks Viren -- Viren R. Shah | viren@rstcorp.com Research Associate | viren@viren.org Reliable Software Technologies | http://www.rstcorp.com/~vshah To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 8: 6:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF4C1554F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA26854 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:05:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:05:53 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Linux port of Microsoft Office? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don't know what to think of this one. http://www.msnbc.com/news/249152.asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 9: 4:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C1315391 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id KAA32481; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199903121704.KAA32481@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <199903121529.KAA03498@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> from "Viren R. Shah" at "Mar 12, 1999 10:29:25 am" To: viren@rstcorp.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: kelly@pluto.plutotech.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Viren R. Shah wrote... > >>>>> "Ken" == Kenneth D Merry writes: > > Ken> Sean Kelly wrote... > > Ken> Yeah, works okay for me: > > > Ken> {roadwarrior:/a/ken/dl:36:0} ls -la trailer320.mov > Ken> -rw------- 1 ken staff 25275508 Nov 18 10:44 trailer320.mov > > That looks like it is the first SW trailer, not the new one which just > came out yesterday: Oh, I didn't even know there was a new trailer. > [vshah@jabberwock] ~/starwars> ls -la menace.mov > -rw-r--r-- 1 vshah staff 26031487 Mar 12 10:25 menace.mov > 863 [10:25am] [vshah@jabberwock] ~/starwars> xanim menace.mov > XAnim Rev 2.70.7.0 by Mark Podlipec (c) 1991-1998 > Video Codec: Sorenson Video not yet supported.(E18) > QT: Sections of this movie use an unsupported Video Codec > and are therefore NOT viewable. > > > The new one has the Sorenson codec, which my version of xanim does not > support. There's also an mpeg version out, but the only app that I > know that can play that is mpeg_play which does video only (no > audio). Bummer. Well, I don't know any magic tricks to get it to work. I suppose someone would either have to get an MPEG player that does audio too, or someone will have to add support for the "Sorenson" codec to xanim. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 9:35: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7109A15465 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id SAA08121 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:34:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id C16C58842; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:17:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:17:18 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... Message-ID: <19990312181718.A15048@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 08:52:04AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5130 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to The Hermit Hacker: > Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? Because the various free encoders don't use the same algorithms as the proprietary ones. I've tried Xing codec software which is almost 1:1 but all the others are at least 1:3... The fastest "free" one seems to be BladeEnc. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 10:25:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF9F14D99 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14709; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:23:51 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Scott Mitchell Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guess we've lost the server market too...? In-Reply-To: <19990312101224.W23921@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Scott Mitchell wrote: > On Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:15:42PM -0800, unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > > And how does that help me? They're not going to sit down with my > > servers and make 'em work. There's no documentation for high > > performance BSD boxen out there. Well, there's a whole list of things to do in the Apache docs (that get installed w/ the port) for performance tuning on *BSD. I'm sure you can also find this on the Apache web page, but I haven't looked there. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 10:44:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E5D15403 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.115]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA7322 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:44:33 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23241 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:44:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:44:58 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: FW: ANNOUNCE: A VNC viewer for GNOME Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look Terry! =) -----FW: ----- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:08:56 +0800 (WST) From: James Henstridge To: gnome-announce-list@gnome.org, Gnome List Subject: ANNOUNCE: A VNC viewer for GNOME I have got a mostly working VNC (virtual network computing) viewer for GNOME. It currently supports enough of the VNC protocol to be useful (all pixel encodings except hextile). The authentication code in the package is a modified version of the DES code in samba (ie. it is not a full implementation, and is only useful for hashing passwords for authentication), so make up your own mind about whether it is legal in your country. It currently doesn't support clipboard transfers and hextile encoding, but does allow you to set the display to a bit depth not matching your visual and make it display correctly (eg displaying 16bit from a 16bit connection to a 24bit visual), so you can reduce the bandwidth usage of the viewer without going all the way down to 8bit. You can get gnome-vnc-viewer from ftp://ftp.daa.com.au/pub/james/gnome/gnome-vnc-0.1.tar.gz James Henstridge. -- Email: james@daa.com.au WWW: http://www.daa.com.au/~james/ -- FAQ: Frequently-Asked Questions at http://www.gnome.org/gnomefaq To unsubscribe: mail gnome-list-request@gnome.org with "unsubscribe" as the Subject. --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 11: 0:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA65F153ED for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29968; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:59:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:59:27 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: viren@rstcorp.com, kelly@pluto.plutotech.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? Message-ID: <19990312105927.B29252@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <199903121529.KAA03498@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> <199903121704.KAA32481@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903121704.KAA32481@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:04:06AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:04:06AM -0700, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Viren R. Shah wrote... > > > > That looks like it is the first SW trailer, not the new one which just > > came out yesterday: [snip] > > The new one has the Sorenson codec, which my version of xanim does not > > support. There's also an mpeg version out, but the only app that I > > know that can play that is mpeg_play which does video only (no > > audio). > > Bummer. Well, I don't know any magic tricks to get it to work. I suppose > someone would either have to get an MPEG player that does audio too, or > someone will have to add support for the "Sorenson" codec to xanim. Sorenson compression seems to be really cool. About eight months ago I was working for a guy who was embedding small videos on his web site; he had been searching around for good encoding methods and found Sorenson encoding, which has a high compression rate with minimal data loss. The resulting video streams well and was the best thing he found for his application. I was there as he was doing a side-by-side comparison with other algorithms, and saw that Sorenson generated a good-looking video that was much better quality than a similar-sized one using several other encoding mechanisms (not sure of the exact ones). Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Madness takes its toll. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Please have exact change. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 11:28: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2599815382 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.115]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1EAF; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:27:40 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23305; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:28:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:28:03 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Steve Price Subject: RE: Linux port of Microsoft Office? Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12-Mar-99 Steve Price wrote: > Don't know what to think of this one. > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/249152.asp zdnet.com also had such an article... If they put in the same features as in the normal Word, then definately I ain't gonna use. Hate word, hate it, hate it (ask me about tabs, formatting, etc). It's the EMacs of Windows IMHO and I prefer vi(m) =P --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 11:31: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3679414E6F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:29:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.115]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA7290; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:29:28 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23311; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:29:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990311164421.11058@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:29:53 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Charles Henrich Subject: RE: The Matrix splash screen Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12-Mar-99 Charles Henrich wrote: > Is there any general location for splash_screen images? I have one with > a bit > of CG from the upcoming film The Matrix.. www.baldwin.com/splash if memory serves right. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 14:52: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7169A153F8 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA20199; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:22:44 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA04716; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:21:21 +0930 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:21:21 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Viren R. Shah" Cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , kelly@pluto.plutotech.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <199903121529.KAA03498@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Viren R. Shah wrote: > The new one has the Sorenson codec, which my version of xanim does not > support. There's also an mpeg version out, but the only app that I > know that can play that is mpeg_play which does video only (no > audio). Check out ports/9998, which is the MTV mpeg player. Does video + audio streams and seems to be faster than the alternatives I've tried. I need to commit this port :) Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 15:31:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B02814D28 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: (from eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04748; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:27:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from eagle) Message-Id: <199903122327.SAA04748@eagle.phc.igs.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: eagle@phc.igs.net Subject: Re: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990312181718.A15048@keltia.freenix.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Mar, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to The Hermit Hacker: >> Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? > > Because the various free encoders don't use the same algorithms as the > proprietary ones. I've tried Xing codec software which is almost 1:1 but > all the others are at least 1:3... The fastest "free" one seems to be > BladeEnc. > wild guess, but its quite possible the windows system is using some of the newer instructions in the proccessor that allow mass moving and changing of data formats rather quickly that, that gcc doesn't understand at all.. rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 16: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10C814D23 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24356; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:01:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:01:22 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: fad@o-o.org Subject: added chroot to /usr/bin/login Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably work :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 16:39:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6029C1548F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (ident=ben) by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10LZp1-000FZF-00; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:50:23 +0000 (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:50:23 +0000 From: Ben Smithurst To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Message-ID: <19990312215023.A59820@scientia.demon.co.uk> References: <19990311164421.11058@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 12-Mar-99 Charles Henrich wrote: >> Is there any general location for splash_screen images? I have one with >> a bit >> of CG from the upcoming film The Matrix.. > > www.baldwin.com/splash if memory serves right. .cx, not .com -- Ben Smithurst ben@scientia.demon.co.uk send a blank message to ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk for PGP key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 16:40:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA9A14C82 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.39]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA8071 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:38:47 -0500 Message-ID: <36E9B3E5.244ADDEE@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:40:05 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A BSD-licensed GUI toolkit? References: <199903072325.QAA23208@usr09.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW, There seems to be a good number of free toolkits referenced here: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 16:51: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2698414D23 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA20045; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:50:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990312174003.03fc2490@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:50:42 -0700 To: Licia , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login Cc: fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I like it! However, I guess my concern would be that assigning a fixed number (in this case, 80) to the group that gets chrooted might not be the best way to go. Groups in FreeBSD can contain only a limited number of users, so this places a limit on the usefulness of the feature. And if group 80 is already in use, it could require major modifications to the file system to avoid problems. How about something like the /etc/ftpchroot file, where one can list both users and groups that are chrooted? Or the /etc/skey.access file, which lets you use the tty, IP address, group membership, and/or the individual user ID as criteria? (The latter may be overkill for this situation.) You could probably snag the code right out of ftpd to implement an etc/loginchroot file. Or it could be made into a library which ftpd, login, and other programs could share. --Brett At 06:01 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > >I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site >at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly >clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the >FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably >work :) > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] > [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] > [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] > > main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:26: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19621152FD for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24893; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:25:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:25:17 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990312174003.03fc2490@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > I like it! However, I guess my concern would be that assigning a fixed > number (in this case, 80) to the group that gets chrooted might not > be the best way to go. Groups in FreeBSD can contain only a limited > number of users, so this places a limit on the usefulness of the > feature. And if group 80 is already in use, it could require major > modifications to the file system to avoid problems. > I'm glad someone likes it :) This is why it is specifically -login group- 80. This doesn't require any additions to /etc/group to add the user. Simply chpass the user, and change their gid to 80. This will allow an effectively unlimited number of users to be chrooted with no problem. I asked about how to find a good 'reserved group' and got no responses, so I made one up. 80 sounded nice to me :) If it's in use, it's a completely trivial alteration to the patches to change to whatever gid is desired. Just go in and change the 80 to the new gid. > How about something like the /etc/ftpchroot file, where one can list > both users and groups that are chrooted? Or the /etc/skey.access > file, which lets you use the tty, IP address, group membership, > and/or the individual user ID as criteria? (The latter may be overkill > for this situation.) You could probably snag the code right out of > ftpd to implement an etc/loginchroot file. Or it could be made into > a library which ftpd, login, and other programs could share. > > --Brett > For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) > At 06:01 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > >I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site > >at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly > >clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the > >FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably > >work :) > > > > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] > > [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] > > [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] > > > > main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:31:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2286F152FC for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25106; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:32:13 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:32:13 -0800 (PST) From: To: Licia Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just thought I'd mention that 80 is a really common group on a lot of web servers for the http group (and the login group of the http user). On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Licia wrote: > On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > I like it! However, I guess my concern would be that assigning a fixed > > number (in this case, 80) to the group that gets chrooted might not > > be the best way to go. Groups in FreeBSD can contain only a limited > > number of users, so this places a limit on the usefulness of the > > feature. And if group 80 is already in use, it could require major > > modifications to the file system to avoid problems. > > > > I'm glad someone likes it :) > > This is why it is specifically -login group- 80. This doesn't require any > additions to /etc/group to add the user. Simply chpass the user, and change > their gid to 80. This will allow an effectively unlimited number of users to > be chrooted with no problem. > > I asked about how to find a good 'reserved group' and got no responses, so I > made one up. 80 sounded nice to me :) If it's in use, it's a completely > trivial alteration to the patches to change to whatever gid is desired. Just > go in and change the 80 to the new gid. > > > How about something like the /etc/ftpchroot file, where one can list > > both users and groups that are chrooted? Or the /etc/skey.access > > file, which lets you use the tty, IP address, group membership, > > and/or the individual user ID as criteria? (The latter may be overkill > > for this situation.) You could probably snag the code right out of > > ftpd to implement an etc/loginchroot file. Or it could be made into > > a library which ftpd, login, and other programs could share. > > > > --Brett > > > > For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm > actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally > based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) > > > > At 06:01 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > > > > >I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site > > >at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly > > >clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the > > >FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably > > >work :) > > > > > > > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] > > > [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] > > > [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] > > > > > > main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} > > > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] > [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] > [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] > > main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:33:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDDD1537F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA20405; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:32:49 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990312182830.03ff2240@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:32:40 -0700 To: Licia From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990312174003.03fc2490@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:25 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: >For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm >actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally >based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) It might be. The only reason I like the idea of having an /etc/loginchroot file is as follows. I currently administer a system that has LOTS of users whose access to things must be limited. We started by putting them all in one group and using that one GID as a criterion. But the group got past 200 users and this started messing up. Also, there's the problem that a user can only be in some small number (16, I think) of groups. Several users are at their limit on that system. To add them to a "chroot group" would break things! I think that S/Key's scheme would be overkill, but that the one used by ftpd for the same purpose is about right. It also has the advantage of establishing a consistent convention. Would you be willing to let me work on this with you? I'd be glad to submit code to test. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:40:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81691514B for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25113; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:39:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:39:06 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990312182830.03ff2240@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sure, knock yourself out :) The patches are BSL :) I'm not familiar with s/key though, so I will have to take your word on it's functionality :) hmmm if I remove the chroot-group part, this whole problem would go away for you too... wonder if it would help anyone else :) anyway, have fun :) On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:25 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > > >For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm > >actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally > >based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) > > It might be. The only reason I like the idea of having an /etc/loginchroot > file is as follows. I currently administer a system that has LOTS of users > whose access to things must be limited. We started by putting them all > in one group and using that one GID as a criterion. But the group got > past 200 users and this started messing up. > > Also, there's the problem that a user can only be in some small number > (16, I think) of groups. Several users are at their limit on that system. > To add them to a "chroot group" would break things! > > I think that S/Key's scheme would be overkill, but that the one used by > ftpd for the same purpose is about right. It also has the advantage of > establishing a consistent convention. Would you be willing to let me > work on this with you? I'd be glad to submit code to test. > > --Brett Glass > > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:43:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382CD14E92 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA24769 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:42:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:42:38 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD user group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Spurred on by the recent success of the newly formed Phoenix, AZ FreeBSD user group, I've been thinking about trying to find a Linux User's group here in North Alabama (Huntsville) that I could sit in on and drop a few hints about FreeBSD and maybe even form a group of our own. If there are any FreeBSD users in this area that know of such a group and would want to attend one with me, just drop me a line and we'll work up a plan. -steve PS: You can all stop laughing now. There really are people smart enough in Alabama to know what a computer is and have the sense to run FreeBSD on it. :-) :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:54:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0F9152E3 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt4-208-166-127-101.dialup.HiWAAY.net [208.166.127.101]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA00719; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:53:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA25791; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:53:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903130153.TAA25791@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD user group In-reply-to: Message from Steve Price of "Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:42:38 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:53:36 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price writes: > Spurred on by the recent success of the newly formed Phoenix, > AZ FreeBSD user group, I've been thinking about trying to find > a Linux User's group here in North Alabama (Huntsville) that > I could sit in on and drop a few hints about FreeBSD and maybe > even form a group of our own. If there are any FreeBSD users > in this area that know of such a group and would want to attend > one with me, just drop me a line and we'll work up a plan. > > -steve > > PS: You can all stop laughing now. There really are people smart > enough in Alabama to know what a computer is and have the sense > to run FreeBSD on it. :-) :-) Actually there was a recent Linux-install-fest held at Intergraph recently. A friend wrangled an invite to bring FreeBSD too. I intended to help but it turned out there were some things I *had* to do that morning. Have been meaning to see if the Huntsville Public Library has FreeBSD in their software section. If not, or if its always checked out, think my 3.1 subscription disks may be donated. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 17:58:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702C8152FD for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA20569; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:57:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990312184119.03fc6be0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:54:23 -0700 To: Licia From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990312182830.03ff2240@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org S/Key is, I believe, part of the default distribution. So, if you type man skey.access it will explain how /etc/skey.access works. The FTP chroot mechanism is described at man ftpd There seems to be a real convergence here, as ftpd and login already allow S/Key passwords. If they also used the same chroot mechanism, everything would be nicely consistent. You've done the most important thing by identifying the need and figuring out where the patch should go. If you'd like, I can come up with an extension to your patch over the weekend. --Brett At 07:39 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > >Sure, knock yourself out :) The patches are BSL :) > >I'm not familiar with s/key though, so I will have to take your word on it's >functionality :) > >hmmm if I remove the chroot-group part, this whole problem would go away for >you too... wonder if it would help anyone else :) > >anyway, have fun :) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:23: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D95714C35 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:22:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [209.154.113.32] (chi-qbu-nvo-vty32.as.wcom.net [209.154.113.32]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA26008 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:22:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903130222.VAA26008@trickster.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD user group Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:38:21 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, with the recent news I've been reading of FreeBSD user groups I find myself wondering if there are any other hoosiers (especially in Southern Indiana) out there using FreeBSD. Regards, Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E66214E57 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54]) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 10Le8Y-0007Lm-00; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:26:50 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:26:12 -0600 From: Guy Helmer To: Licia Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Licia wrote: > For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm > actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally > based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) Assuming you mean that there would be a new flag in login.conf (e.g. "chroot" and "chroot-dir" to indicate the directory to chroot to), that would be great (and eliminate the dependency on an arbitrary group). Good work, Guy Guy Helmer, Ph.D. Candidate, Iowa State University Dept. of Computer Science Research Assistant, Ames Laboratory --- ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov Research Assistant, Dept. of Computer Science --- ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:28:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2C914BE6 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25452; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:28:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:28:34 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Guy Helmer Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Guy Helmer wrote: > On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Licia wrote: > > > For this situation I think really that anything else would be overkill. I'm > > actually thinking of removing the chroot-group idea, and having it totally > > based on /etc/login.conf, but for now I think it's ok as it is :) > > Assuming you mean that there would be a new flag in login.conf (e.g. > "chroot" and "chroot-dir" to indicate the directory to chroot to), that > would be great (and eliminate the dependency on an arbitrary group). > > Good work, > Guy > (nod) that's what I'm thinking...have the chroot be a boolean and the chroot-dir be a string... or maybe even just use the existence of the string as the boolean, and be lazy ;) I could do -that- by just carefully removing some of the existing code :) Thanks :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:30:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DAD14DDE for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05965; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:29:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd005890; Fri Mar 12 19:29:04 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15918; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:29:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903130229.TAA15918@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login To: licia@o-o.org (Licia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 02:29:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: from "Licia" at Mar 12, 99 06:01:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site > at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly > clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the > FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably > work :) I think the correct way to pursue this would be to put the user's in a "chroot" login class. You would put the word "chroot" between the colons in the passwd file entry via "vipw", e.g.: test::999:999:chroot:0:0:test user:/A/testuser:/bin/csh And then within this class, add the resource limit "rootdir" in addition to the default, e.g.: chroot:\ :rootdir=~:\ :tc=default: Note: ~ expands to the home directory, $ expands to the username; you could also do: chroot:\ :rootdir=/jail/$:\ :tc=default: And then use: login_getcapstr(3) Within login itself to get the string; if present, you chroot to the target. You could also do: sharedjail:\ :rootdir=/usr06/jail/:\ :tc=default: And put users in a shared, but chrooted environment, like so: sally::2018:2018:sharedjail:0:0:sally:/users/s/sally:/bin/csh bob::2019:2019:sharedjail:0:0:bob:/users/b/bob:/bin/csh They could interact (and share shared libraries, for example), but not affect the rest of the system. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:44:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C4614C3F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:44:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07140; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:44:28 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Travis Ruthenburg Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD user group Message-ID: <19990312184428.I29252@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <199903130222.VAA26008@trickster.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903130222.VAA26008@trickster.net>; from Travis Ruthenburg on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 08:38:21PM -0500 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 08:38:21PM -0500, Travis Ruthenburg wrote: > Yes, with the recent news I've been reading of FreeBSD user groups I find > myself wondering if there are any other hoosiers (especially in Southern > Indiana) out there using FreeBSD. You can find a list of FreeBSD user groups at http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Operating_Systems/Unix/FreeBSD/User_Groups/ Feel free to inform the editors about new user groups by using the Add URL button at the top of the page. You can also find FreeBSD resources at dmoz.org: http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Operating_Systems/Unix/FreeBSD/ Regards, Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Information wants to be free. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 18:54:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68B814C3F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:54:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25753; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:54:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:54:17 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <199903130229.TAA15918@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks to welcome feedback, I've modified the patches :) no more login group. It's all completely based on /etc/login.conf classes now. If there is a capability called chroot, the value for it is used as the path to chroot to, if there isn't, no chrooting... if there's interest I can add the ~ type expansions to allow a single class to be used for multiple users to be chrooted to their homedirs (trivial hack :) ) and this will easily allow shared chroot environments, although the previous version did too :) Thanks for the feedback, it's very welcome :) On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I've placed a small patch to /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c on my home site > > at http://www.o-o.org/~licia/projects/login/ that adds a simple and fairly > > clean way to chroot users at login time. The 2.2.8R patch is tested, the > > FreeBSD-current patch is anyone's guess, although I think it should probably > > work :) > > I think the correct way to pursue this would be to put the user's in > a "chroot" login class. You would put the word "chroot" between > the colons in the passwd file entry via "vipw", e.g.: > > test::999:999:chroot:0:0:test user:/A/testuser:/bin/csh > > And then within this class, add the resource limit "rootdir" in addition > to the default, e.g.: > > chroot:\ > :rootdir=~:\ > :tc=default: > > Note: ~ expands to the home directory, $ expands to the username; you > could also do: > > chroot:\ > :rootdir=/jail/$:\ > :tc=default: > > And then use: > > login_getcapstr(3) > > Within login itself to get the string; if present, you chroot to the > target. > > You could also do: > > sharedjail:\ > :rootdir=/usr06/jail/:\ > :tc=default: > > And put users in a shared, but chrooted environment, like so: > > sally::2018:2018:sharedjail:0:0:sally:/users/s/sally:/bin/csh > bob::2019:2019:sharedjail:0:0:bob:/users/b/bob:/bin/csh > > They could interact (and share shared libraries, for example), but > not affect the rest of the system. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 19: 0:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DA214F63 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25846; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:00:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:00:03 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990312184119.03fc6be0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > There seems to be a real convergence here, as ftpd and login already > allow S/Key passwords. If they also used the same chroot mechanism, > everything would be nicely consistent. You've done the most important > thing by identifying the need and figuring out where the patch should > go. If you'd like, I can come up with an extension to your patch over > the weekend. > > --Brett > Have fun :) I've already put modified versions up, with the gid part removed, and may if there's interest, put up another version with expansion of ~ in the chroot capability string :) Feel free to modify any and all versions of those, or any other source I post on my home site :) > At 07:39 PM 3/12/99 -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > >Sure, knock yourself out :) The patches are BSL :) > > > >I'm not familiar with s/key though, so I will have to take your word on it's > >functionality :) > > > >hmmm if I remove the chroot-group part, this whole problem would go away for > >you too... wonder if it would help anyone else :) > > > >anyway, have fun :) > > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 12 21:46:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA24014E28 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:46:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (ppp-111-89.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.89]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23741 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:46:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36E9FB60.CC4236D6@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:45:04 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: fr, en, zh MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Doc Daemon! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html http://www.freebsd.org/news.html Who did the daemon? Just to know, it's nice :-) -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][French piss me off! - Cartman, South Park] [The FreeBSD User Guide][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/freebsd/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 0:53:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6B914DDD for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.15]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA6901; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:52:51 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27564; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:53:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990312215023.A59820@scientia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:53:17 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Ben Smithurst Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Charles Henrich Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12-Mar-99 Ben Smithurst wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >> On 12-Mar-99 Charles Henrich wrote: >>> Is there any general location for splash_screen images? I have one >>> with >>> a bit >>> of CG from the upcoming film The Matrix.. >> >> www.baldwin.com/splash if memory serves right. > > .cx, not .com Yer completely right www.baldwin.cx/splash Thanks for thwapping my head Ben ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 4:50:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E38014DB5 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:50:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id NAA26955 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:50:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id CC86B8848; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:23:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:23:39 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... Message-ID: <19990313122339.A26855@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990312181718.A15048@keltia.freenix.fr> <199903122327.SAA04748@eagle.phc.igs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199903122327.SAA04748@eagle.phc.igs.net>; from eagle@phc.igs.net on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:27:57PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5130 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to eagle@phc.igs.net: > wild guess, but its quite possible the windows system is using some of > the newer instructions in the proccessor that allow mass moving and > changing of data formats rather quickly that, that gcc doesn't > understand at all.. Unless you're speaking of the MMX instructions (which compete with the FPU because the registers are shared between the two for most processors), I don't think so. My K6 has no special instructions and is still 3 times faster under W95 for MP3 encoding. Even the MMX instructions can't explain a 3x difference IMHO. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 13: 4: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64B914E76 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22878; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022861; Sat Mar 13 14:03:27 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA19502; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:03:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903132103.OAA19502@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login To: licia@o-o.org (Licia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:03:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: from "Licia" at Mar 12, 99 08:54:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Thanks to welcome feedback, I've modified the patches :) no more login group. > It's all completely based on /etc/login.conf classes now. If there is a > capability called chroot, the value for it is used as the path to chroot to, > if there isn't, no chrooting... if there's interest I can add the ~ type > expansions to allow a single class to be used for multiple users to be > chrooted to their homedirs (trivial hack :) ) and this will easily allow > shared chroot environments, although the previous version did too :) If it's a path type object, the ~ and $ stuff are already in there, so if you want to use literal values, you have to escape them (\~), per the login.conf man page. Anyway, I think that this probably represents the first useful thing that login.conf has ever done for anyone (besides killing their process, running them out of file descriptors, and, in general, not supporting the SEcureCard stuff. 8-)). Good job! I think this stuff should be committed, post-haste! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 14: 1:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDFC14DF2 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA13938; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:01:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:01:02 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Ben Smithurst Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Ben Smithurst , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <19990312215023.A59820@scientia.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 09:53:17AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai stated: > On 12-Mar-99 Ben Smithurst wrote: > > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > > >> On 12-Mar-99 Charles Henrich wrote: > >>> Is there any general location for splash_screen images? I have one with > >>> a bit of CG from the upcoming film The Matrix.. > >> > >> www.baldwin.com/splash if memory serves right. > > > > .cx, not .com > > Yer completely right > > www.baldwin.cx/splash > > Thanks for thwapping my head Ben ;) Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of CG from the upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of dual proc freebsd systems to render a goodly portion of the effects in this film, this frame is from the major CG shot of the film, but isnt final, its as of about a month ago. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 14:42:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E6D714D60 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA09286; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:41:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from w@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id XAA72655; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:18:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from w) Message-ID: <19990313231812.29016@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:18:12 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Nate Williams , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Donating Copyrights? References: <199902262155.OAA23690@mt.sri.com> <10349.920071223@zippy.cdrom.com> <199902262335.QAA24415@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199902262335.QAA24415@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Fri, Feb 26, 1999 at 04:35:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1999-02-26 16:35:28 -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > > There are no files in the entire FreeBSD kernel distribution that are > > > assigned to FreeBSD Inc. (which is the company you and David started if > > > I understand things correctly). > > > > Correct. > > > > > Why is this copyright there? 'wosch' added it, but I have no idea since > > > he had no right to assign the kernel or any files to this. > > > > I have no idea either, perhaps because John Fieber had originally > > copyrighted the handbook this way (not at my urging) Wolfram saw this > > as a statement of general intent or something. > > Ahh, that makes sense. > > > AFAIK, the handbook > > and web pages have been changed to "(C) The FreeBSD Project" which > > doesn't actually mean anything per-se and is probably why FreeBSD, > > Inc. was chosen before - it seemed just a little more tangible. > > > > But it's no skin off my nose either way, that's for sure. > > So, should the copyright be updated to the project? Yes, I will do it. -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 14:43:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from chopin.seattleu.edu (chopin.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E634614EA4 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu ([172.17.41.90]) by chopin.seattleu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17234; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:42:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EAEA06.7A079CFC@seattleu.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:43:18 -0800 From: Eric Hodel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen References: <19990312215023.A59820@scientia.demon.co.uk> <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of CG from the > upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of dual proc freebsd > systems to render a goodly portion of the effects in this film, this frame is > from the major CG shot of the film, but isnt final, its as of about a month > ago. So are we going to see the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo in the credits? -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu Where do you want to go today? http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 17: 4: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from aauu.aaweber.com (cs9340-48.austin.rr.com [24.93.40.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0053514F54; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aaweber@austin.rr.com) Received: (from aaweber@localhost) by aauu.aaweber.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA01636; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:03:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:03:05 -0600 From: Alan Weber To: Freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disapointing security architecture Message-ID: <19990313190305.A1423@austin.rr.com> References: <199903130358.TAA82290@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:34:46PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:34:46PM -0600, David Scheidt wrote: --> On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: --> : You know, it wouldn't cost too much to implement ACLs with an extra --> : inode if we implemented an ACL cache, allowing multiple references to --> : the same ACL inode. When someone changes the ACL associated with a file, --> : it would hop to a different ACL inode. There'd have to be a mechanism --> : to prevent excessive fragmentation but I think it would work in general --> : terms and not even eat that many inodes. --> Something like this certainly makes sense. You need to keep track of how --> many files are using that ACL inode, but that is much the same problem as --> hard links. What I wonder about is what the hit rate is going to be? I am --> fairly sure that most of my ACLs will be identical, so I suppose the odds of --> having one in core is pretty high. You would also win on what ever the ACL --> equivelant of chmod * is. I would suggest that each directory have an ACL inode and that by default each file will use the inode of the directory ACL inode. This will cause ACLs to propagate down a directory tree when subdirectories are created. I generally administer access rights on a directory basis. I am very used to the NetWare trustee scheme and find if very convenient to manage user file permissions on a directory basis. Would it be possible to increase the granularity of the permissions with the ACL scheme (delete, create, rename, write, append, read, grant, etc.)? I would be willing to help on implementing ACLs. -- When I was a kid I had to rub sticks together to multiply and divide numbers. A calculator was a job description. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 18:39:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from aauu.aaweber.com (cs9340-48.austin.rr.com [24.93.40.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE96D14DAB; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aaweber@austin.rr.com) Received: (from aaweber@localhost) by aauu.aaweber.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01893; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:39:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:39:02 -0600 From: Alan Weber To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACLs was disapointing security architecture Message-ID: <19990313203902.B1850@austin.rr.com> References: <19990313190305.A1423@austin.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Robert Watson on Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 08:20:03PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --> > --> : You know, it wouldn't cost too much to implement ACLs with an extra --> > --> : inode if we implemented an ACL cache, allowing multiple references to --> > --> : the same ACL inode. When someone changes the ACL associated with a file, --> > --> : it would hop to a different ACL inode. There'd have to be a mechanism --> > --> : to prevent excessive fragmentation but I think it would work in general --> > --> : terms and not even eat that many inodes. --> > --> Something like this certainly makes sense. You need to keep track of how --> > --> many files are using that ACL inode, but that is much the same problem as --> > --> hard links. What I wonder about is what the hit rate is going to be? I am --> > --> fairly sure that most of my ACLs will be identical, so I suppose the odds of --> > --> having one in core is pretty high. You would also win on what ever the ACL --> > --> equivelant of chmod * is. --> > I would suggest that each directory have an ACL inode and that by default each --> > file will use the inode of the directory ACL inode. This will cause ACLs to --> > propagate down a directory tree when subdirectories are created. I generally --> > administer access rights on a directory basis. I am very used to the NetWare --> > trustee scheme and find if very convenient to manage user file permissions --> > on a directory basis. Would it be possible to increase the granularity of --> > the permissions with the ACL scheme (delete, create, rename, write, append, --> > read, grant, etc.)? I would be willing to help on implementing ACLs. --> While I recognize the simplicity and usefulness of per-directory ACLs (a --> la AFS and Coda), I suspect that ACLs in the style of POSIX.1e will --> probably achieve greater portability (Solaris, Linux, etc). Since --> permissions are currently on the granularity of files, the POSIX.1e --> mechanism is probably also more consistent with the current permission --> model. I am not suggesting directory-only ACLs but want the file ACL to point to the directory ACL unless explicitly changed on a per file basis. I like the above scheme to reuse ACLs as one change can be efficiently propagated to a huge number of files versus having to fetch/update every file ACL in a directory hierarchy. -- When I was a kid I had to rub sticks together to multiply and divide numbers. A calculator was a job description. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 20:26:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D902A14FB1 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA28019; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:56:48 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA20715; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:55:28 +0930 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:55:28 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen In-Reply-To: <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Charles Henrich wrote: > Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of CG from the > upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of dual proc freebsd > systems to render a goodly portion of the effects in this film, this frame is > from the major CG shot of the film, but isnt final, its as of about a month > ago. Awesome - are you able to explain a bit more about the setup you used to do this - what software did you use, etc? Have you thought about preparing a press-release for when the movie comes out to do a bit of advocacy? Lots of people seemed to be impressed by the fact that that Penguin OS was used for the iceberg film - I think this could be a good "jewel" in the FreeBSD crown as an example of a real-world success story. Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 23: 6:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA3014F33 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:05:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id CAA25412; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:04:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990313230448.41158@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:04:48 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Eric Hodel Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990312215023.A59820@scientia.demon.co.uk> <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> <36EAEA06.7A079CFC@seattleu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <36EAEA06.7A079CFC@seattleu.edu>; from Eric Hodel on Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:43:18PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Eric Hodel stated: > > Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of CG from > > the upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of dual proc > > freebsd systems to render a goodly portion of the effects in this film, > > this frame is from the major CG shot of the film, but isnt final, its as > > of about a month ago. > > So are we going to see the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo in the credits? > > No, I dont have that much pull :) -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 23:10:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDBE114FA0 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id CAA25540; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:10:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990313231007.12138@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:10:07 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Kris Kennaway Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: Kris Kennaway , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:55:28PM +0930 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Kris Kennaway stated: > Awesome - are you able to explain a bit more about the setup you used to do > this - what software did you use, etc? Basically we used a collection of 32 Dual Proc P-II/450 systems w/ 1GB of memory and 9GB Ultra2/LVD drives (Dell Precision 410's), as well as 40 MIPS R10k processors (the P-II's in general outperformed the fastest R10k). We used Pixar's Renderman under Linux emulation (yeech, maybe next time I can get them to give me a native FreeBSD port) on the FreeBSD systems. With the exception of some wackyness caused when our renders started to exceed 1GB of memory (FreeBSD got real grumpy then) things were pretty darn smooth. Easily as good as the IRIX machines, and infinatly more simple to maintain IMHO. > Have you thought about preparing a press-release for when the movie comes > out to do a bit of advocacy? Lots of people seemed to be impressed by the > fact that that Penguin OS was used for the iceberg film - I think this could > be a good "jewel" in the FreeBSD crown as an example of a real-world success > story. I'd be willing to work with someone (Jordan?) on doing something like this, sure.. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 13 23:18:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECD614C33 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:18:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA83216; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:16:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903140716.XAA83216@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Charles Henrich Cc: Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:04:48 PST." <19990313230448.41158@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:16:59 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Say,is there going to be an mpeg trailer 8) Tnks! Amancio > On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Eric Hodel stated: > > > > Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of CG from > > > the upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of dual proc > > > freebsd systems to render a goodly portion of the effects in this film, > > > this frame is from the major CG shot of the film, but isnt final, its as > > > of about a month ago. > > > > So are we going to see the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo in the credits? > > > > > > No, I dont have that much pull :) > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com > > http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message