From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 6:44: 8 1999
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Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:20:40 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Auction(s) Ended - Item Deemed Inappropriate for eBay Listing (fwd)
Message-ID: <19990704132040.A25674@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <000101bec5c8$667ea720$021d85d1@youwant.to> <377EE2ED.B99A0D11@airnet.net> <19990704153557.Y709@freebie.lemis.com>
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Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Saturday, 3 July 1999 at 23:28:29 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote:
>
>> <Sigh> And I never got to see it/him listed.
>
> Did anybody save the page?
I've got a copy in my local web proxy's cache, if anyone else wants a
copy and hasn't got one just let me know.
--
Ben Smithurst | PGP: 0x99392F7D
ben@scientia.demon.co.uk | key available from keyservers and
| ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 8:43:49 1999
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Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:43:39 -0500
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <zen@buddhist.com>
Subject: An interesting signature
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Just discovered this signature in a different list:
>The nice thing about Windows is:
>It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK'
first.
>
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 9:54: 4 1999
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From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" <green@unixhelp.org>,
Janie Dykes <jkn33@pangeatech.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
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[Moved to chat from hackers]
On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 01:12:41AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote:
> "G. Adam Stanislav" wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 06:11:08PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote:
> > > Trust me, greenie, those of us who a FAR from 16 wish we weren't. ;^)
> >
> > What, and miss the sixties??? Get back to your handbasket! :-)
>
> Our experiences of the sixties were probably different.
No doubt about that. I spent mine in Czechoslovakia, a country that was trying
to replace Stalinism with democracy, just to be crushed by the August 21, 1968,
invasion and the subsequent restoration of hardcore Communism.
When I say I would not want to miss the sixties, I am not talking wearing
flowers, using LSD, or going to Woodstock. I did none of that (for that
matter, I did not hear about Woodstock until the eighties).
The reasons I am glad I experienced the sixties are not because of what
happened or did not happen to me personally. No, what I like about it is
that I personally lived through a period when for the first time in
recorded history mankind as a whole realized that things can be different.
That we do not have to do everything exactly the same way our parents did,
and their parents did, and so on for millenia.
There of course always were changes from generation to generation. But they
were small. And they were not global. In the sixties changes were radical,
and they sweapt the whole planet. Not all of the changes were
necessarily for the better (as both your and my personal experience show).
The point I am trying to make is that more changes happened, and on a larger
scale, within that one decade than ever before in human history, or ever
since (by now, anyway). And that is why I would not trade the experience
of having lived through that decade for youth or for anything else.
Adam
> I spent mine as a
> dirt-poor "GI brat", the son of an American military man, watching my father
> fly to far away lands to get maimed. He was wounded in Tripoli when Qaddafi
> took Libya from King Idris, and later in Thailand during the Khmer Rouge
> reign of terror, sending young pilots to die at Thud Ridge. We just wanted
> him home safe.
>
> We spent 1970 at Fort Benning, Ga. We went to the commissary every Thursday,
> and watched the fleet of chaplains cars coming and going, doing next of kin
> notification. That (and the space program) are what the sixties mean to me.
>
> --
> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
>
> Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
> http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10: 1:28 1999
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From: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>
To: Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net>
Cc: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
jkh@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Auction(s) Ended - Item Deemed Inappropriate for eBay Listing (fwd)
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999, Kris Kirby wrote:
> <Sigh> And I never got to see it/him listed.
http://www.FreeBSD.org/~billf/pictures/jkh.jpg was the funny picture in
the item listing.
There was some comment made in there that went something like:
"Over exposure to this core member may result in colon cancer."
Those were the funny points.
- bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp -
- ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org -
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10:16:37 1999
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From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <zen@buddhist.com>,
<freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: An interesting signature
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:16:31 -0700
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Irix does this too. It also makes a really neat 'crash' sound.
DS
> Just discovered this signature in a different list:
>
> >The nice thing about Windows is:
> >It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK'
> first.
> >
>
> Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10:25:33 1999
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Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:25:25 -0700
From: sams@virtualtek.com
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: web based groupware
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Hi,
We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web
based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto
their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have
an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and
play with the features. Let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Sam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 13:34: 5 1999
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Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:30:05 +0100
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <zen@buddhist.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
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In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:43:39AM -0500
Organization: Total lack of
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On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:43:39AM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote:
> Just discovered this signature in a different list:
>
> >The nice thing about Windows is:
> >It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets
> >you press 'OK' first.
> >
>
:-)
I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest?
It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL.
In a surprise announcement today, Microsoft President Steve Ballmer
revealed that the Redmond-based company will allow computer resellers
and end-users to customize the appearance of the Blue Screen of
Death (BSOD), the screen that displays when the Windows operating
system crashes.
The move comes as the result of numerous focus groups and customer
surveys done by Microsoft. Thousands of Microsoft customers were
asked, "What do you spend the most time doing on your computer?"
A surprising number of respondents said, "Staring at a Blue Screen
of Death." At 54 percent, it was the top answer, beating the second
place answer "Downloading XXXScans" by an easy 12 points.
"We immediately recognized this as a great opportunity for ourselves,
our channel partners, and especially our customers," explained the
excited Ballmer to a room full of reporters. Immense video displays
were used to show images of the new customizable BSOD screen
side-by-side with the older static version.
Users can select from a collection of "BSOD Themes," allowing them
to instead have a Mauve Screen of Death or even a Paisley Screen
of Death. Graphics and multimedia content can now be incorporated
into the screen, making the BSOD the perfect conduit for delivering
product information and entertainment to Windows users.
The BSOD is by far the most recognized feature of the Windows
operating system, and as a result, Microsoft has historically
insisted on total control over its look and feel. This recent
departure from that policy reflects Microsoft's recognition of the
Windows desktop itself as the "ultimate information portal."
By default, the new BSOD will be configured to show a random
selection of Microsoft product information whenever the system
crashes. Microsoft channel partners can negotiate with Microsoft
for the right to customize the BSOD on systems they ship.
Major computer resellers such as Compaq, Gateway, and Dell are
already lining up for premier placement on the new and improved
BSOD.
Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source
community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to
innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see
any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable
one."
> Adam
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
--
FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org
My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov
_______________________________________________________________
Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK
CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry
mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 14:39: 9 1999
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From: "Dan Langille" <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary
To: chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:38:59 +1200
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Subject: INTERNIC are slow. very slow
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I submitted two requests to internic back in December. They've just
implemented them. Now I have to submit another change to back out these
changes. Bah.
Here's the header from one:
From: Host Registration Account <hstreg@internic.net>
Subject: Re: [NIC-990622.f3c8] NS.FREEBSDDIARY.CX
Date sent: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:51:20 -0400 (EDT)
To: dan.langille@dvl-software.com
Modifications for the host record shown below have been completed.
If you need to make additional changes to this host record, complete
and submit a Host Form modification. When you submit the Host Form
modification to hostmaster@internic.net, be sure to indicate MODIFY HOST
as the subject of your message.
The zone files, which make the Internet work, are updated daily, 7 days a
week. Requests received and completed by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time are
included
in that days' zone file update, and should be visible on the Internet the
following morning. However, your modified record may not be visible in
Network Solutions' WHOIS database for 24-48 hours from the time of the
zone
file update.
Network Solutions Registration Services
email
hostmaster@internic.net=========================================================
================
(NZ6-HST)
Hostname: NS.FREEBSDDIARY.CX
Address: 210.55.152.41
Contact:
Langille, Dan (DL4720) dan.langille@DVL-SOFTWARE.COM
[No phone]
Record last updated on 04-Jul-99.
Record created on 15-Apr-99.
=========================================================================
>From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969
>Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net [192.168.120.14])
> by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20099
> for <hostmaster@internic.net>; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43 -0400 (EDT)
--
Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/
NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/
The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 15: 4:43 1999
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From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow
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According to Dan Langille:
> I submitted two requests to internic back in December. They've just
> implemented them. Now I have to submit another change to back out these
> changes. Bah.
I have several changes pending too. Why do they insist to register hosts
before having them as primary/secondaries ? What a waste of time !
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 16:59:25 1999
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Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Dan Langille wrote:
> >From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969
> >Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net [192.168.120.14])
> > by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20099
> > for <hostmaster@internic.net>; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43 -0400 (EDT)
Wow, your mail took 30 years and 7 months to be delivered?! Doesn't that
violate an RFC somewhere? :-)
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 17:38: 6 1999
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From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Ollivier Robert" <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>, <chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: INTERNIC are slow. very slow
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:37:55 -0700
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> I have several changes pending too. Why do they insist to register hosts
> before having them as primary/secondaries ? What a waste of time !
They insist on registering hosts before having them as primary/secondaries
so that they know the contacts for a name server. This also associates an
object with that name server so that they can establish who has the right to
add domains to that name server.
Before they did this, some of our customers would submit domain
applications listing our shell machines as name servers. God only knows why.
Internic would create records for these name servers automatically with our
customers as contacts, and we had to manually delete them. It was a _major_
pain.
How many name servers do you have that registering them separately is a
problem?
DS
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From: "Dan Langille" <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:38:45 +1200
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Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow
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On 5 Jul 99, at 9:29, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Dan Langille wrote:
>
> > >From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969
> > >Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net
> > >[192.168.120.14]) by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id
> > >RAA20099 for <hostmaster@internic.net>; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43
> > >-0400 (EDT)
>
> Wow, your mail took 30 years and 7 months to be delivered?! Doesn't that
> violate an RFC somewhere? :-)
Reckon they got the post office beat?
--
Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/
NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/
The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 20: 0:30 1999
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To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jul 1999 11:52:15 CDT."
<19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:04:01 -0400
From: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>
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Wes Peters wrote:
[snips]
> We spent 1970 at Fort Benning, Ga. We went to the commissary every Thursday,
> and watched the fleet of chaplains cars coming and going, doing next of kin
> notification. That (and the space program) are what the sixties mean to me.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's
a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with
the heroes we had pitching for science.
Growing up in Mississippi during the sixties meant a few other things
to me too. Although the repression we experienced under the racist state
government certainly does not compare to that in Czechoslavakia of 1968,
it did further motivate me to pursue science and technology if just to
escape the ignorance that prevailed there.
I wouldn't trade my experiences of that period, but I certainly would not
want to turn the clock back either.
Cheers,
Jerry Hicks
wghicks@bellsouth.net
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 21:27:46 1999
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Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:27:15 -0500
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last pid: 3216; load averages: 0.25, 0.14, 0.17 up 0+07:40:44
23:25:25
79 processes: 6 running, 70 sleeping, 3 zombie
CPU states: 5.0% user, 0.0% nice, 5.0% system, 5.4% interrupt, 84.7%
idle
Mem: 41M Active, 179M Inact, 18M Wired, 11M Cache, 8345K Buf, 1064K Free
Swap: 300M Total, 1K Used, 300M Free
Shouldn't the cache be much larger for a machine that's been playing
MP3's all day long?
--
Kris Kirby
<kris@airnet.net>
-------------------------------------------
TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 23:56:53 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net>
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On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 11:04:01PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote:
> That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's
> a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with
> the heroes we had pitching for science.
Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> Growing up in Mississippi during the sixties meant a few other things
> to me too. Although the repression we experienced under the racist state
> government certainly does not compare to that in Czechoslavakia of 1968,
> it did further motivate me to pursue science and technology if just to
> escape the ignorance that prevailed there.
Repression is repression. And ignorance is ignorance. Your experience is
just as real as mine.
With all the repression we experienced under Communism, they at least did
encourage the study of science. The lack of that is one thing I will
never understand about the US. It seems that people like Jerry Falwell
are more respected than NASA. So are psychics and astrologers.
Back home it was the exact opposite. For example, the two most popular
teen magazines were dedicated entirely to science and technology. In
high school, we had at least two periods of math every single day
(although that was not the case with every HS, we were specialized in
computer programming, it even says so on my HS diploma).
By the way, July 4 is the day that always reminds me of August 21, 1968.
For some inexplicable reason the sound of fireworks always makes me
shiver. Sometimes it is so bad, I have to lie down in bed and cover
my ears with pillows. It is only the sound. If I am actually *watching*
the fireworks, I enjoy the spectacle. But if I am home and only hear
the sound, it horrifies me.
> I wouldn't trade my experiences of that period, but I certainly would not
> want to turn the clock back either.
Yes, same here.
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:14:43 1999
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To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: 05 Jul 1999 11:14:16 +0200
In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500"
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"G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> Gagarin was the first man in space.]
Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:15:56 1999
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To: Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Unusually small cache...
References: <37803423.29D6DC58@airnet.net>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: 05 Jul 1999 11:15:41 +0200
In-Reply-To: Kris Kirby's message of "Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:27:15 -0500"
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Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net> writes:
> last pid: 3216; load averages: 0.25, 0.14, 0.17 up 0+07:40:44
> 23:25:25
> 79 processes: 6 running, 70 sleeping, 3 zombie
> CPU states: 5.0% user, 0.0% nice, 5.0% system, 5.4% interrupt, 84.7%
> idle
> Mem: 41M Active, 179M Inact, 18M Wired, 11M Cache, 8345K Buf, 1064K Free
> Swap: 300M Total, 1K Used, 300M Free
>
> Shouldn't the cache be much larger for a machine that's been playing
> MP3's all day long?
des@des ~% top -b 3
last pid: 23857; load averages: 0.64, 0.40, 0.29 up 10+22:16:56 11:14:58
89 processes: 2 running, 87 sleeping
Mem: 77M Active, 11M Inact, 26M Wired, 4236K Cache, 8024K Buf, 4752K Free
Swap: 512M Total, 48M Used, 463M Free, 9% Inuse
PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND
784 des 35 0 4768K 2152K RUN 206:30 11.28% 11.28% xamp
394 root 2 0 26612K 21552K select 523:24 2.88% 2.88% XF86_SVGA
20030 des 2 0 6488K 4488K select 11:51 0.00% 0.00% emacs
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:22:53 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:33:09 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>
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Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
>
> Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
France (where I'm from) on the globe.
A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
and refrigerators "over there".
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:27: 7 1999
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From: "Dan Langille" <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:27:01 +1200
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
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On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> >
> > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
>
> I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> France (where I'm from) on the globe.
>
> A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
>
> That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
> and refrigerators "over there".
I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it
doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New
Zealand. They wonder the same thing.
Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
--
Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/
NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/
The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:31:43 1999
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To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>
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Dan Langille writes:
> >
> > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
> > and refrigerators "over there".
>
> I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it
> doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New
> Zealand. They wonder the same thing.
Tell 'em you got beavers running on treadmills. Or sheep, for that
matter.
> Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
> electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
Just heard of them compooters, mind ya. Looks purty.
--
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 3:59:19 1999
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To: Josef Karthauser <joe@pavilion.net>
Cc: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: your mail
References: <NDBBKGIEOJDOPHINDIKGOEHKCAAA.bill@billfink.com> <Pine.BSF.3.96.990701180015.95386A-100000@narcissus.net> <19990702095858.V69050@pavilion.net> <xzpiu83xv4b.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990702104239.X69050@pavilion.net> <19990702195432.A45632@keltia.freenix.fr> <19990705112143.E82833@pavilion.net>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: 05 Jul 1999 12:58:44 +0200
In-Reply-To: Josef Karthauser's message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:21:43 +0100"
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Josef Karthauser <joe@pavilion.net> writes:
> On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 07:54:32PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote:
> > This is not a technical problem. This is a human problem. Don't try to apply
> > technical solutions to human problems. He's bad, spank him. You don't have
> > time to waste with such users, just remove them.
> Of course it is - but not as much fun. It's much more fun confusing him ;)
> [how smart does he think he is exactly?]
Personally, I find it much more gratifying to just walk in, confiscate
the Ethernet cable, and walk right out again. Of course, that's just
for effect (and personal gratification); you can't watch his face
while you pull the cable from the patch panel or disable the port he's
hooked up to on backbone switch, since you don't let him into the NOC.
(Yes, I used to read bofh.* and the Scary Devil Monastery on a regular
basis. I don't have time for that any more, unfortunately.)
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 4:11: 0 1999
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To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Cc: Josef Karthauser <joe@pavilion.net>,
Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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> Personally, I find it much more gratifying to just walk in, confiscate
> the Ethernet cable, and walk right out again. Of course, that's just
> for effect (and personal gratification); you can't watch his face
> while you pull the cable from the patch panel or disable the port he's
> hooked up to on backbone switch, since you don't let him into the NOC.
>
> (Yes, I used to read bofh.* and the Scary Devil Monastery on a regular
> basis. I don't have time for that any more, unfortunately.)
We had a couple of misbehaving NT/Windows machines, having a submask of
255.255.0.0, all trying to find their domain controller at the same
time, creating huge piles of fragments and broadcasts on the sitewide
net (yep, flat B IP-space, all bridged with cheap bridges :-( The whole
site of 2000 people was unreachable. The system administrator of that
building claimed it was not his fault until someone walked in and tore
out the fibre, damaging the ethernet controller of the bridhe and the
cable in the process, on purpose.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6: 9:32 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:39:20 +0930 (CST)
From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: FreeBSD locations (was: Pictures from USENIX)
In-Reply-To: <19990705160732.N451@freebie.lemis.com>
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > -34.53 138.35 "newton, kris, grog" # Adelaide, SA Australia
>
> I'm not in Adelaide, remember? Here are my coordinates:
>
> -35.14 138.77 grog
[...]
> > BDE is the easternmost and Jordan the westernmost. The largest
> > concentration so far is Boulder Colorado with 4, followed by the
> > Adelaide gang with 3.
>
> Hmm. Doesn't Daniel O'Connor have commit privileges? And it's time
> for Mike Smith to come home, then we'd have 5 :-)
Alas, I'm shortly going to be taking the score back down to 2: in exactly a
month I'm going to be heading off to LA to start a PhD at USC (Mathematical
Physics, if anyone's interested)
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6:42: 3 1999
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From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:41:22 -0500
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com
References: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500"
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On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
>
> Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't
necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born
after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history.
And for many of the more ethnocentric Americans, nothing done by
some "damn rooshin" matters anyway... "after all, they claim to have
invented everything from fire to atomic power!"
In most forums, Adam's qualifications would have been appropriate,
if not necessarily believed.
Mike
======================================================================
Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
(409)-842-2942 (work)
ICQ: 16241692
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6:44: 0 1999
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From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:43:34 -0500
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com
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On 5 Jul 99, at 21:27, Dan Langille wrote:
> On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> > > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying
> > > > Gagarin's youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger
> > > > generation here: Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
> >
> > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> > France (where I'm from) on the globe.
> > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
> > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
> > and refrigerators "over there".
> I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it
> doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New
> Zealand. They wonder the same thing.
> Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
> electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
Of course, I still wonder how you can read the monitors, and how
appliances work, when they are upside down!
Mike
P.S. - It was just a joke... PLEASE don't explain it to me (unless your
explanation is amusing...) Mike
======================================================================
Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
(409)-842-2942 (work)
ICQ: 16241692
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
CPU: (n.) acronym for Central Purging Unit.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:13:25 1999
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From: Rhiannon <rage@cyberwitch.org>
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To: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
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Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad
:P
lor
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
how do you know she's a witch ?
* * *
rage@cyberwitch.org rage@rush.net rage@free.bsdunix.net
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Mike Avery wrote:
> On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
>
> > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> >
> > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
>
> This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't
> necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born
> after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history.
>
> And for many of the more ethnocentric Americans, nothing done by
> some "damn rooshin" matters anyway... "after all, they claim to have
> invented everything from fire to atomic power!"
>
> In most forums, Adam's qualifications would have been appropriate,
> if not necessarily believed.
>
> Mike
>
> ======================================================================
> Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
> (409)-842-2942 (work)
> ICQ: 16241692
>
> * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
>
> A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
> I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem.
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:35:13 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:34:51 -0700
From: Matthew Hunt <mph@astro.caltech.edu>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD locations (was: Pictures from USENIX)
Message-ID: <19990705083451.A41493@wopr.caltech.edu>
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 10:39:20PM +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> Alas, I'm shortly going to be taking the score back down to 2: in exactly a
> month I'm going to be heading off to LA to start a PhD at USC (Mathematical
> Physics, if anyone's interested)
Well it's about time. I was (I think) the only SoCal person on that
list. Is this critical mass for a (strangely physics-oriented) LAFUG?
Matt
--
Matthew Hunt <mph@astro.caltech.edu> * UNIX is a lever for the
http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * intellect. -J.R. Mashey
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:38:38 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:36:08 +0200
From: Anton Berezin <tobez@plab.ku.dk>
To: Rhiannon <rage@cyberwitch.org>
Cc: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
Message-ID: <19990705173608.F5735@lion.plab.ku.dk>
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400, Rhiannon wrote:
> Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in
> Hollywad :P
For more on this topic, see
Omon Ra by Viktor Pelevin
ISBN: 0811213641
The basic idea is the same, only this time about the Russian Space
Program. Great fun to read. Don't know about this translation, though.
--
Anton Berezin <tobez@plab.ku.dk>
The Protein Laboratory, University of Copenhagen
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:27:24 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:24:04 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net>
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net>
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Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:09AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> France (where I'm from) on the globe.
>
> A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
Five years ago I moved to Rhinelander, a small town in Northern Wisconsin.
Several months later, as I walked into the local bookstore, I was immmediately
approached by the people who worked there.
They told me to expect a phone call from a local high school teacher. She
was about to take a trip to Siberia. The bookstore people told her I was
from Slovakia, so I should know all about Siberian customs, as Slovakia is
very close to Siberia.
One of the things the particular bookstore sells in abundance is the globe.
I took one of the globes and placed it on the counter. I asked them to find
Rhinelander on it, which they did even though its name was not printed on
the globe.
I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So,
I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since
Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't
*you* tell her all about Siberian customs."
They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-)
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:29:12 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:28:24 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: Rhiannon <rage@cyberwitch.org>
Cc: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
Message-ID: <19990705132824.B220@whizkidtech.net>
References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <Pine.BSF.4.05.9907051111430.19632-100000@bytor.rush.net>
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Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400, Rhiannon wrote:
> Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad
> :P
Interesting. Just two or three weeks ago my Zen teacher talked about this in
his class. He pointed out the ultimate argument against that idea: If it were
done by Holywood, the pictures would have been much clearer.
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:30:56 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:08:31 +0100
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
To: Dan Langille <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>
Cc: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990705190831.E256@marder-1>
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>
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In-Reply-To: <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:27:01PM +1200
Organization: Total lack of
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:27:01PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote:
> On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote:
>
> > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes:
> > > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> > >
> > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
> >
> > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> > France (where I'm from) on the globe.
> >
> > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
> >
> > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
> > and refrigerators "over there".
>
> I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it
> doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New
> Zealand. They wonder the same thing.
>
> Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
> electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
It's when you get inside toilets and running hot water that your
quality of life really improves :-).
> --
> Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
> The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/
> NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/
> The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
--
FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org
My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov
_______________________________________________________________
Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK
CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry
mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 12: 0:22 1999
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Message-ID: <3780E06D.F4CD1A9D@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co>
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 11:42:21 -0500
From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" <pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co>
Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia
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To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net>
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Phil Regnauld wrote:
>
...
> I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> France (where I'm from) on the globe.
>
> A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
>
> That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity
> and refrigerators "over there".
>
This somehow makes me feel better ;-); I was asked exactly the same
thing about South America when I first visited the US. Some woman even
said she had visited Colombia "over there in South Africa".
On the topic of repression, my University is known for having started
all the local "revolutionary movements". It was the only free-thought
University, it had almost no cost and the police still can't go inside
without a special (presidential) permit. We had some brilliant-crazy
people, one of them, with an incredible memory, decided to number all
the students in the University and called everyone by his number, there
was also a guy that square roots and logarithms faster than any computer
(this was certified). I didn't live those days in all their fervor, I
was born in 1968, but my brother and all my teachers did. My brother
even spent one night in jail for no good reason.
Many people simply disappeared, some became part of the communist
guerrilla and some became members of the government; it was indeed a
very difficult time in all the world, nevertheless most people liked it.
Some people are surprised that I never used a slideruler, and I never
programmed with cards; nowadays I can't conceive that youngsters have
never seen a metalic lunchbox or that they didn't learn to do many math
operations with pencil and paper (I am actually happy that they never
heard the Bee Gees, Roberta Flack, and Menudo :-).
The world is moving faster and faster each day, I guess this is not good
or bad, it's simply different, but I do miss those days when jobs and,
in general, all forms of relationship were stable.
cheers,
Pedro.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 12:59:26 1999
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Message-ID: <37810E97.90AE60E9@airnet.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:59:19 -0500
From: Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net>
Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum.
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To: Nick Hibma <nick.hibma@jrc.it>
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Nick Hibma wrote:
> We had a couple of misbehaving NT/Windows machines, having a submask of
> 255.255.0.0, all trying to find their domain controller at the same
> time, creating huge piles of fragments and broadcasts on the sitewide
> net (yep, flat B IP-space, all bridged with cheap bridges :-( The whole
> site of 2000 people was unreachable. The system administrator of that
> building claimed it was not his fault until someone walked in and tore
> out the fibre, damaging the ethernet controller of the bridhe and the
> cable in the process, on purpose.
Can amyone explain to me the rational of setting the subnet mask only to
have Windows pick the normal "default" for the number. (IE: 10.x.x.x
domain, 255.0.0.0, I subnet it for 255.255.255.0. Both appear in the
routing table.)
<sigh> Sometimes it's good when the operating system doesn't think for
you.
--
Kris Kirby
<kris@airnet.net>
-------------------------------------------
TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 14:59:54 1999
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From: "Crist J. Clark" <cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>
Message-Id: <199907052201.SAA12573@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9907051111430.19632-100000@bytor.rush.net> from Rhiannon at "Jul 5, 99 11:13:17 am"
To: rage@cyberwitch.org (Rhiannon)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:01:09 -0400 (EDT)
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Rhiannon wrote,
> Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad
> :P
Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either.
--
Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 15:14:30 1999
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-Reply-To: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> from "G. Adam Stanislav" at "Jul 5, 99 01:24:04 pm"
To: adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: regnauld@ftf.net, des@flood.ping.uio.no, wghicks@bellsouth.net,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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G. Adam Stanislav wrote,
> On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:09AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved
> > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced
> > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out
> > France (where I'm from) on the globe.
> >
> > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia.
>
> Five years ago I moved to Rhinelander, a small town in Northern Wisconsin.
> Several months later, as I walked into the local bookstore, I was immmediately
> approached by the people who worked there.
Rhinelander? My grandpa used to drink that 'Rhinelander' brand beer
they made/make up there. Gross stuff.
Anyway, 'Mericans' perception of the reaches of civilization are not
merely limited to you dang fur'iners. Back in the early 60's my mom
used to waitress in a resort hotel in eastern Wisconsin. Mind you,
now-a-days this area could probably be described as suburban
Milwaukee, so even then it was close to the city. A large chunk of the
vacationers are people coming up from Chicago. My mom used to love
disappoint them when they asked smirking, and wide-eyed, "Do you have
TV up here?" And she responded cooly, "Just NBC, CBS, and ABC."
Mind you, this continues today. I went to school at Johns Hopkins in
Baltimore, MD and my sister went to Georgetown in, well, in Georgetown,
DC. I grew up in suburban Milwaukee, and kids honestly asked if we had
cows in the backyard. Now living in NJ, I can say there are still
_lots_ of people who don't realize that there inhabited regions of the
continent besides the East and West Coasts. I mean, didn't they watch
"Happy Days?[0]"
> They told me to expect a phone call from a local high school teacher. She
> was about to take a trip to Siberia. The bookstore people told her I was
> from Slovakia, so I should know all about Siberian customs, as Slovakia is
> very close to Siberia.
>
> One of the things the particular bookstore sells in abundance is the globe.
> I took one of the globes and placed it on the counter. I asked them to find
> Rhinelander on it, which they did even though its name was not printed on
> the globe.
>
> I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So,
> I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since
> Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't
> *you* tell her all about Siberian customs."
>
> They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-)
>
> Adam
[0] The suburban existence depicted in that show is said to be based
on the suburb where I grew up. Of course, all the suburbs on
Milwaukee's North Shore say that. But Whitefish Bay or Shorewood
have the best claims.
--
Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 15:35:34 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:55:54 +0200
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: Pictures from USENIX
Message-ID: <19990705235553.A75969@keltia.freenix.fr>
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References: <Pine.HPP.3.96.990704104158.4432C-100000@hp9000.chc-chimes.com> <50572.931115702@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990704185436.B53737@mad> <37804CE7.D821B50F@softweyr.com>
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In-Reply-To: <37804CE7.D821B50F@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 12:12:55AM -0600
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According to Wes Peters:
> 48.8 2.28 "ollivier" # Les Ulis, France
48.7 2.17 "roberto" # Les Ulis, France
We are 5 frenchies, four of them are near Paris so you can put "pb" (Pierre
Beyssac), "charnier" (Philippe Charnier), "nsouch" (Nicolas Souchu) more or
less near me. Both "pb" and "charnier" are actually in Paris.
48.85 2.83 "pb,charnier" # Paris, France
~48.7 ~2 "nsouch" # Somewhere inside "Yvelines", France
Jean-Marc is more in the South East (Besançon).
47.24 6.05 "jmz" # Besançon, France
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16: 5: 8 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:30:24 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: web based groupware
Message-ID: <19990705233023.A79849@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
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On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:25:25AM -0700, sams@virtualtek.com wrote:
> We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web
> based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto
> their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have
> an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and
> play with the features. Let me know what you think.
This is actually something I've been pondering on and off. Would a web
based calendar be of any use to the FreeBSD community?
Not a "everyone gets an account and can add items" groupware calendar,
as VirtualTek are writing, but just a list of "Upcoming events of
importance" organised by date, with links to more information as necessary,
probably maintained by hand.
Useful?
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16: 9:14 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:33:39 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" <zen@buddhist.com>, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
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On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 09:30:05PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote:
> I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest?
> It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL.
[snip]
> Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source
> community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to
> innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see
> any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable
> one."
XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1)
NAME
bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
SYNOPSIS
bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
[-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
[-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
DESCRIPTION
The bsod program is the finest in personal computer emula-
tion.
bsod steps through a set of screens, each one a recreation
of a different failure mode of an operating system. Sys-
tems depicted include Microsoft's Windows 95 and Windows
NT, Commodore-Amiga's AmigaDOS 1.3, SPARC Linux, SCO UNIX,
the Apple Macintosh (both the MacsBug debugger and the
rarer "Sad Mac"), and the Atari ST.
...
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16:58: 3 1999
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From: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
To: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: web based groupware
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Well, I don't know what we would put on it :) There aren't many exactly
scheduled events (software releases are hit and miss), exluding FreeBSDCon
and USENIX, but beyond that...
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Nik Clayton wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:25:25AM -0700, sams@virtualtek.com wrote:
> > We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web
> > based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto
> > their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have
> > an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and
> > play with the features. Let me know what you think.
>
> This is actually something I've been pondering on and off. Would a web
> based calendar be of any use to the FreeBSD community?
>
> Not a "everyone gets an account and can add items" groupware calendar,
> as VirtualTek are writing, but just a list of "Upcoming events of
> importance" organised by date, with links to more information as necessary,
> probably maintained by hand.
>
> Useful?
>
> N
> --
> [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
> non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
> the links.
> -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:18:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Lemon <jlemon@americantv.com>
Message-Id: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>
To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
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In article <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> you write:
>XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1)
>
>
>NAME
> bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
>
>SYNOPSIS
> bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
--
Jonathan
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 17:26:39 1999
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To: "Jonathan Lemon" <jlemon@americantv.com>,
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Subject: RE: An interesting signature
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:26:32 -0700
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> >NAME
> > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
> >
> >SYNOPSIS
> > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
>
>
> I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
> the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
> --
> Jonathan
char *j=0;
*j=*j+1;
DS
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 17:29: 2 1999
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From: jack <jack@germanium.xtalwind.net>
To: cjclark@home.com
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
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Today Crist J. Clark wrote:
> Rhiannon wrote,
> > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad
> > :P
>
> Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either.
The Flat Earth Society, which claims that the moon landings were
done in Hollywood, claimed that Simpson's envolement in that
movie was the reason for his "legal problems". He was supposed
to have learned during the filming that the moon landings were
faked.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst
jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc.
Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key.
PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD
enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:14:45 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:12:57 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Cc: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:14:16AM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
>
> Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
It was by no means meant to imply the younger generation does not deserve
creadit.
If memory serves me right, Gagarin's historic flight took places 38 years ago.
That means there are adults among us whose parents weren't born yet.
Gagarin's flight was also a source of major embarassment to the US government
of the time.
I have been in the US for about 16 years now, and I do not recall people
mentioning Gagarin's name. So it seems reasonable that at least some members
of the younger generation would not know who Gagarin was, and certainly *not*
because of their own fault.
If this offended you, I apologize, and I assure you that was not my intention.
For what it's worth, I do not judge people based on their age. Every age has
its advantages and disadvantages, and I have enjoyed myself in every age I
lived so far (49 years, for the record). I also treat people of any age as my
equal, both on the net and in the physical world, because we indeed are all
equal.
Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his
flight? :-)
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:16:45 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:15:59 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: cjclark@home.com
Cc: Rhiannon <rage@cyberwitch.org>, mavery@mail.otherwhen.com,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker
Message-ID: <19990705201559.B221@whizkidtech.net>
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 06:01:09PM -0400, Crist J. Clark wrote:
> Rhiannon wrote,
> > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad
> > :P
>
> Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either.
I thought that was Homer Simpson. :-)
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:31:34 1999
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To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>
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G. Adam Stanislav wrote:
> Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his
> flight? :-)
Captain. No... wait. Lt.?
--
Kris Kirby
<kris@airnet.net>
-------------------------------------------
TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:46:43 1999
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From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
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On 5 Jul 99, at 20:30, Kris Kirby wrote:
> G. Adam Stanislav wrote:
> > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of
> > his flight? :-)
> Captain. No... wait. Lt.?
I would have guessed Colonel, or Lt. Colonel. However, the
encyclopedia says Major.
Mike
======================================================================
Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
(409)-842-2942 (work)
ICQ: 16241692
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
If I knew what I was talking about--would I be here???
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 19: 1:57 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:31:47 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
Cc: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>,
"G. Adam Stanislav" <zen@buddhist.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
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On Monday, 5 July 1999 at 23:33:39 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 09:30:05PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote:
>> I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest?
>> It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL.
>
> [snip]
>
>> Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source
>> community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to
>> innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see
>> any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable
>> one."
>
> XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1)
>
>
> NAME
> bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
>
> SYNOPSIS
> bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
>
> DESCRIPTION
> The bsod program is the finest in personal computer emula-
> tion.
>
> bsod steps through a set of screens, each one a recreation
> of a different failure mode of an operating system. Sys-
> tems depicted include Microsoft's Windows 95 and Windows
> NT, Commodore-Amiga's AmigaDOS 1.3, SPARC Linux, SCO UNIX,
> the Apple Macintosh (both the MacsBug debugger and the
> rarer "Sad Mac"), and the Atari ST.
Nice one. If somebody sends me the text from a BSOD, I'll implement
it.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 19:33:34 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: rick hamell <hamellr@dsinw.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-Reply-To: <199907052215.SAA12609@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>
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> Mind you, this continues today. I went to school at Johns Hopkins in
> Baltimore, MD and my sister went to Georgetown in, well, in Georgetown,
> DC. I grew up in suburban Milwaukee, and kids honestly asked if we had
> cows in the backyard. Now living in NJ, I can say there are still
> _lots_ of people who don't realize that there inhabited regions of the
> continent besides the East and West Coasts. I mean, didn't they watch
> "Happy Days?[0]"
Sure is.... I live in Oregon. If I had a dollar for every time
I've been asked if I live in a log cabin, or have a covered wagon. Of
course, I always say 'Shor' do!' You'll have ta' excuse me for a momen'
there seems to be a her' o' elk rootin' around in mah garden! Dangblast
it! I cin't find my scattergun!
Course... now if we could just convice all the Californians
moving up here that this was true..... :) Maybe they'd all stay down
there.... :)
Rick
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:15 1999
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From: Joe Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27010@agora.bafug.org>
Subject: Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
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San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs
BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in
the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or
contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is :
http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html
Employers:
The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have
FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job
please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com.
Employees:
When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job
listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page.
Josef
--
$Id: BayAreaFreeBSDJobs.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:15 1999
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From: Joe Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27028@agora.bafug.org>
Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
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FreeBSD Counter Project
The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have
put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is
an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a
very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used
and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to
ISVs and hardware and software vendors.
You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can
be found at :
http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html
Couple of caveats:
* Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the
project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see
this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct
marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos.
* Suggestions and comments are welcome!
* The database behind this page was built from the email registrations
sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install
chances are you are in this database.
This is posted every 1st and 15th of the month.
Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com)
--
$Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:17 1999
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From: Joe Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27045@agora.bafug.org>
Subject: Bay Area Install-A-Thon
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:53 -0700 (PDT)
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FreeBSD Install-A-Thon
BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) will hold it's monthly Install-A-Thon
in conjunction with the Robert Austin computer show on July 24th at the
Oakland Convention Center. The purpose of these Install-A-Thons is for new
and experienced user to meet and solve problem they are having with
FreeBSD. It is also a time to promote FreeBSD to potential users.
The Oakland Convention Center is in downtown Oakland on the corner of 10th
street and Clay Street. There is some on street parking but your best bet
is lot parking.
Admission to the show is $5.00 unless you have a VIP pass. VIP passes can
be gotten at Robert Austin's web page (http://www.robertaustin.com). The
show hours are 10:00am to 4:00pm.
We will be meeting at the Oakland convention center at 9:00am to setup and
will be there till 4 when the show closes. Tear down usually takes about 30
minutes.
If you are interested in helping please contact
Josef Grosch - jgrosch@MooseRiver.com
Nicole Harrington - nicole@mediacity.com
More information about the show can be found at
http://www.bafug.org/Install.html
This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th of the month.
--
$Id: InstallAnnounce.txt,v 1.5 1999/07/06 04:02:24 jgrosch Exp $
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:18 1999
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From: Joe Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27062@agora.bafug.org>
Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com
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Retail outlets for FreeBSD
A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of
FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a
number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at
http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html
Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email,
and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you
friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD.
This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th.
--
$Id: RetailAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:28: 2 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:27:54 -0500
From: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com>
To: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
Message-ID: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com>; from Mike Avery on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me
that Mike Avery remarked
> On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
>
> > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> >
> > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
>
> This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't
> necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born
> after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history.
C'mon, I was born almost a decade after the moon landing! :P
I never considered any of this [various early space programs] to be
'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of
historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'?
the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name
the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR...
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
| Matthew Fuller MF4839 http://www.over-yonder.net/ |
* fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net *
| UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD |
* FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting *
| "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, |
* is because I haven't figured out how to light the *
| middle yet" |
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:48:29 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:47:57 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990706004757.A220@whizkidtech.net>
References: <37815C30.91004E51@airnet.net> <199907060148.UAA10554@hostigos.otherwhen.com>
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:46:05PM -0500, Mike Avery wrote:
> > > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of
> > > his flight? :-)
>
> > Captain. No... wait. Lt.?
>
> I would have guessed Colonel, or Lt. Colonel. However, the
> encyclopedia says Major.
The encyclopedia is right. He was a Major.
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:51:34 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:50:58 -0500
From: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
To: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com>
Cc: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Dogs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
Message-ID: <19990706005058.B220@whizkidtech.net>
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote:
> If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name
> the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR...
Ends with 'aika' (or 'ajka' depending on how you translitterate).
Adam
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 23: 1:16 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:01:10 -0700
From: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>
To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded?
Message-ID: <19990705230109.A1039@dragon.nuxi.com>
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Did anybody video or audio tape record Kirk McKusicks's "BSD at Berkeley"
USENIX BoF talk?
--
-- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
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From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 23:46:40 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:49:16 +0200
From: Andreas Braukmann <braukmann@tse-online.de>
To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de>
References: <local.mail.freebsd-chat/3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990704213005.A439@marder-1> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>
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In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>; from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500
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Hi,
On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote:
> >NAME
> > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
> >
> >SYNOPSIS
> > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
> I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
> the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
... it's just one of the kde's screensaver modules (or just modes).
Sorry for not having more precise information, ... but I just
'pkg_deleted' the whole kde crap and switched back to my former
afterstep 1.0 setup ...
-andreas
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 0:55:44 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
Cc: Dan Langille <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990705190831.E256@marder-1>
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Mark Ovens writes:
> >
> > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
> > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
>
> It's when you get inside toilets
Funny, I'd feel much more comfortable _outside_ them :-)
Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many
know the concept :-) is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention --
*choke*
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 0:58: 0 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:10:43 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net>
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G. Adam Stanislav writes:
>
> I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So,
> I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since
> Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't
> *you* tell her all about Siberian customs."
>
> They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-)
Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll
casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down
to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well,
there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel
when driving 65 MPH).
--
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 1: 9:54 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:22:36 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com>
Cc: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>
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Matthew D. Fuller writes:
>
> 'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of
> historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'?
How many people think cubism is modern art ? Contemporary art ?
Who knows the difference ? Most think "classical" painting stopped somewhere
in the 19th century :-)
> the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name
> the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR...
Laika ? You should see the great "My Life as a dog" from Lasse Hallstrøm
(the ø is wrong, but I can't get the umlaut on the o).
--
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:33:36 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:30:21 -0700
From: Doug Beaver <dougb@scalar.org>
To: Andreas Braukmann <braukmann@tse-online.de>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990706023021.A110@scalar.org>
References: <local.mail.freebsd-chat/3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990704213005.A439@marder-1> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de>
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In-Reply-To: <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de>; from Andreas Braukmann on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 09:49:16AM +0200
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 09:49:16AM +0200, Andreas Braukmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote:
> > >NAME
> > > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
> > >
> > >SYNOPSIS
> > > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> > > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> > > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
> > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
> > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
> ... it's just one of the kde's screensaver modules (or just modes).
> Sorry for not having more precise information, ... but I just
> 'pkg_deleted' the whole kde crap and switched back to my former
> afterstep 1.0 setup ...
Just in case people are trying to find this program, it does exist and
is part of the XScreenSaver screensaver distribution which was created
by Jamie Zawinski. It's url is http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/ .
The source to all the demos comes with xscreensaver, so if you wanted
bsod to just display the Windows BSOD (and not the other ones), then it
would probably be a simple patch to the source.
BTW, xscreensaver is implemented in a way that allows any program which
draws on the root window and understands virtual root windows to be ran
when the screensaver activates, so it's easy to implement your own
'screensaver modules'.
For example, xv(1) can draw on the root window, so it's possible to
create slide shows that are activated when the screensaver turns on,
which is what I did on my system.
Doug
--
"Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun." -- Mr. Burns
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:53:32 1999
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From: Ladavac Marino <mladavac@metropolitan.at>
To: 'Phil Regnauld' <regnauld@ftf.net>,
"G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: how to start to be a hacker?
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:50:09 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Regnauld [SMTP:regnauld@ftf.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 10:11 AM
> To: G. Adam Stanislav
> Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav; W Gerald Hicks; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
>
> G. Adam Stanislav writes:
> >
> > I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with
> Slovakia. So,
> > I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is
> Rhinelander. Since
> > Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be,
> why don't
> > *you* tell her all about Siberian customs."
> >
> > They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-)
>
> Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US --
> they'll
> casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down
> to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well,
> there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the
> wheel
> when driving 65 MPH).
[ML] That's how much, about 1500 miles, slightly over 2000
kilometers, all interstate. I've covered greater distances in a day,
but that's been driving at 100 to 130 mph. Of course, these velocities
are legal around here, especially Germany. It is the 65 mph speed
limit, and not the distance, that is deadly in the States :)
/Marino
> --
>
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:56:58 1999
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To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: 06 Jul 1999 11:56:45 +0200
In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:12:57 -0500"
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"G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his
> flight? :-)
You got me there :)
BTW, did you ever read Stanislaw Lem as a kid? Pirx the Pilot was one
of my teenage years' heroes :)
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 3:50:37 1999
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To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>,
Dan Langille <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990705190831.E256@marder-1> <19990706100826.22855@ns.int.ftf.net>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: 06 Jul 1999 12:50:23 +0200
In-Reply-To: Phil Regnauld's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200"
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Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net> writes:
> Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many
> know the concept :-)
Bing!
> is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention --
> *choke*
I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash
basin and not a weird toilet.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 4: 7:31 1999
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From: Ladavac Marino <mladavac@metropolitan.at>
To: 'Dag-Erling Smorgrav' <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>,
Dan Langille <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: how to start to be a hacker?
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:03:35 +0200
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav [SMTP:des@flood.ping.uio.no]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 12:50 PM
> To: Phil Regnauld
> Cc: Mark Ovens; Dan Langille; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
>
> Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net> writes:
> > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many
> > know the concept :-)
> > is the most "comfortable, hygienic"
> invention --
> > *choke*
>
> I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash
> basin and not a weird toilet.
[ML] Well, it definitely beats the toilet paper if you have
haemmorhoids(sp?) And you are supposed to wash the hands afterwards
anyway :)
/Marino
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 4: 8:42 1999
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From: "Dan Langille" <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary
To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:08:19 +1200
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
References: Phil Regnauld's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200"
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On 6 Jul 99, at 12:50, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net> writes:
> > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many
> > know the concept :-)
>
> Bing!
>
> > is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention --
> > *choke*
>
> I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash
> basin and not a weird toilet.
Suffice it to say it's a way to quickly freshen up after a nooner. Or
similar.
--
Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/
NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/
The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 5: 0:14 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:05:15 +1000 (EST)
From: atrn@zeta.org.au
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <19990706113146.G451@freebie.lemis.com>
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Before people get carried away...bsod is real. It comes with xscreensaver.
:; which bsod
/usr/X11R6/bin/bsod
:; grep bsod /var/db/pkg/xscreensaver*/+CONTENTS
man/man1/bsod.1.gz
bin/bsod
:;
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 6:25:52 1999
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From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:25:29 -0500
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Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com
In-reply-to: <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net>
References: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 01:24:04PM -0500
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On 6 Jul 99, at 10:10, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> G. Adam Stanislav writes:
> Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll
> casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down
> to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well,
> there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel
> when driving 65 MPH).
It seems to be a problem with understanding the scale of things.
Yes, it's a single country. But it spans the continent.
An exchange student was working for my wife in a library on the
east coast, and said she was going to visit her friends in Washington
over a 3-day weekend. She was going to take the train. My wife
was familiar with Washington DC, so she suggested a few resturants,
and was told, "No, not Washington DC, my friends are in Washington
state!"
If there was an excellent train service, she'd have had just enough
time to make it to Washington state, get a cup of coffee, get back
on the train, and drink the coffee on the way back. But train service
gets worse and worse the farther you get from the east coast.
Sadly, the student couldn't afford a plane ticket, so the visit with
friends was considerably delayed.
Mike
======================================================================
Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
(409)-842-2942 (work)
ICQ: 16241692
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
If guys were suppose to hang clothes up, door knobs would be bigger.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:15: 7 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:21:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Earn Cash
In-Reply-To: <77938.931236851@zippy.cdrom.com>
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> Luckycasino.com now blocked by spam filters. Sorry, as always, for
> the interruption.
dammit Jordan, when I opt in, I want my spam.
*cough*
A Hymn To Spam
"What is this stuff
That doth jiggle in the breeze
And smells like that which
I avoid when I walk in the stables?"
--Hysterics of Estrus
O meaty mass of fleshy flesh
Who with the dark and wild
And wanton world doth mesh
In sizzling ecstasy, tasty and mild!
From the Ellay to the halls of Prism,
To the salty fields of Elysium,
Come to me glorious SPAM,
Thou cooked, boiled, and pressed ham!
IO SPAM! IO SPAM!
Come with eggs and toast,
With bacon and duckling roast,
Come wild! Come sliced!
Come mashed! Come diced!
IO SPAM! SPAM! IO! IO!
With this key thy veil I rend!
Thy starry blue tin I twist and bend!
That the thee in thee might
Become the me in me tonight!
And the thee in me I feel
As the me in thee I peel;
With glee and abandon I stab
My trident into thy quivering flab!
IO SPAM! SPAM IO! IO! IO!
With fervor and awe you relent
Before my furious murderous intent;
I whip I mash I slash I cream
Thy body to consumate this dream.
IO SPAM! IO SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! IO! IO!
I dice I beat I flake I shake
I cover thee with Shake and Bake;
SPAM! O sweet sweet SPAM!
Never again will I slam my ham!
IO SPAM! IO SPAM! IO!
O yeah, SPAM my baby...
Come to papa, SPAM.
Oooooh...SPAM...I never dreamed...
IIOOOO!! SPAAAAAM!!*
*(The secret sense of these words is to be sought in the numeration thereof.)
(Anonymous)
-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net]
systems administrator and programmer
Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:43:30 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:33:19 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Jonathan Lemon <jlemon@americantv.com>
Cc: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990706163319.A35220@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <local.mail.freebsd-chat/3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990704213005.A439@marder-1> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>
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Jonathan Lemon wrote:
> I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
> the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
I think Nik got it from /usr/ports/x11/xscreensaver, from what I can
see. (bin/bsod exists in that port's PLIST.)
--
Ben Smithurst | PGP: 0x99392F7D
ben@scientia.demon.co.uk | key available from keyservers and
| ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:54:23 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:54:02 -0700
From: Matthew Hunt <mph@astro.caltech.edu>
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>,
Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990706085402.C85561@wopr.caltech.edu>
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net>
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 10:10:43AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll
> casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down
> to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well,
> there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel
> when driving 65 MPH).
Fortunately, the prevailing speed on Interstate 5 (at least between
SF and LA) seems to be more like 90 MPH.
Matt, who's gone local in LA and will be a menace on the Pennsylvania
roadways next week.
--
Matthew Hunt <mph@astro.caltech.edu> * Inertia is a property
http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 9:48:52 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
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To: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-Reply-To: <199907061327.IAA11296@hostigos.otherwhen.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mike Avery wrote:
> If there was an excellent train service, she'd have had just enough
> time to make it to Washington state, get a cup of coffee, get back
> on the train, and drink the coffee on the way back.
This problem is not limited to f'er'ners. My family is from the
east coast, but we've lived in San Diego essentially all of my life. When
relatives come to visit for the first time they are constantly amazed that
we can drive around for hours and still be in the same state! Of course,
you can take Connecticut, Massachusets and Rhode Island, put them all in
San Diego County and rattle them around.
They are further flabbergasted to learn that although you can
drive for hours and stay in California, in 17 minutes you can be in a
totally different country.
On a totally mercenary note, I've always been interested in things
like history and geography, and way back when I was in college our school
used to host a lot of foreign students for various study programs. I got a
lot of dates with cute "foreign girls" based purely on the fact that I was
one of the few american guys that could carry on an intelligent
conversation with them about their home. Of course, I only used my powers
for good...
*chuckle*
Doug
--
On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only
nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter
what it does.
-- Will Rogers
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 10: 1:44 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:06 +0100
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
Message-ID: <19990706175705.A256@marder-1>
References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>
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In-Reply-To: <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:12:57PM -0500
Organization: Total lack of
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:12:57PM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote:
>
> Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his
> flight? :-)
>
Major
> Adam
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
--
FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org
My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov
_______________________________________________________________
Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK
CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry
mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 10: 9:14 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:04:43 +0100
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
To: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com>
Cc: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
Message-ID: <19990706180442.B256@marder-1>
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>
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In-Reply-To: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500
Organization: Total lack of
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me
> that Mike Avery remarked
> > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> >
> > > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
> > >
> > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
> >
> > This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't
> > necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born
> > after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history.
>
> C'mon, I was born almost a decade after the moon landing! :P
> I never considered any of this [various early space programs] to be
> 'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of
> historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'?
> the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name
> the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR...
>
Liaka (sp?)
>
>
> --
>
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> | Matthew Fuller MF4839 http://www.over-yonder.net/ |
> * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net *
> | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD |
> * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting *
> | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, |
> * is because I haven't figured out how to light the *
> | middle yet" |
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
--
FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org
My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov
_______________________________________________________________
Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK
CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry
mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 11:34: 5 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:18:16 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
Cc: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>,
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: web based groupware
Message-ID: <19990706081815.A45068@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
References: <19990705233023.A79849@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907051756470.7568-100000@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907051756470.7568-100000@matadore.montereyhigh.com>; from Yann Ramin on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:58:55PM +0000
Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:58:55PM +0000, Yann Ramin wrote:
> Well, I don't know what we would put on it :) There aren't many exactly
> scheduled events (software releases are hit and miss), exluding FreeBSDCon
> and USENIX, but beyond that...
Other regular events? User group meetings, issues of DaemonNews and
FreeBSDZine coming out, Jordan's junkets^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heducational visits
to the Far East, that sort of thing.
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 11:34:40 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:20:41 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Jonathan Lemon <jlemon@americantv.com>
Cc: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990706082041.B45068@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
References: <local.mail.freebsd-chat/3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990704213005.A439@marder-1> <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>
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In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>; from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500
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On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote:
> In article <local.mail.freebsd-chat/19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> you write:
> >XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1)
> >
> >
> >NAME
> > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator
> >
> >SYNOPSIS
> > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color]
> > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install]
> > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds]
>
> I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see
> the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-)
ports/x11/xscreensaver/
I'm serious, it really does exist. Install the port, and then either run
"bsod" by hand, and click in the window to cycle through the samples, or
let it run as a regular screensaver.
Seriously confused one of my work colleagues when an Amiga Guru Meditation
error appeared on my display.
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" <mishania@demos.net>
To: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
Cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com>,
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Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
Message-ID: <19990706231456.A13550@demos.su>
References: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> <19990706180442.B256@marder-1>
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 06:04:43PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote:
# On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote:
# > On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me
# > that Mike Avery remarked
# > > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
# > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
# > > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
#
# > the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name
# > the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR...
# Liaka (sp?)
Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;)
--
-mishania
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 12:24:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>
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To: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>
Cc: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-Reply-To: <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net>
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 11:04:01PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote:
> > That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's
> > a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with
> > the heroes we had pitching for science.
>
> Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> Gagarin was the first man in space.]
>
I first read this as "Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about
being Gagarin's youngest daughter. :-)" ROTFL!
-Pat
___________________________________________________________________________
Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net
lynch@bsdunix.net
Systems Administrator Rush Networking
___________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 12:25:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>
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To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>
Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>,
W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
In-Reply-To: <xzpr9mnv4pj.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no>
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exactly, we study history...and to some of us, that type of history was
worth more than who the pres. of the US was at that time.
___________________________________________________________________________
Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net
lynch@bsdunix.net
Systems Administrator Rush Networking
___________________________________________________________________________
On 5 Jul 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net> writes:
> > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's
> > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here:
> > Gagarin was the first man in space.]
>
> Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit.
>
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no
>
>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:11:54 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:09:44 -0500
From: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Cheesy benchmarks
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It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
amazingly -- well -- stupid.
http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
--
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
The whole is the sum of its parts, plus one or more bugs
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:41:13 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>
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To: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded?
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Wouldn;t that be nice =)
That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to.
___________________________________________________________________________
Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net
lynch@bsdunix.net
Systems Administrator Rush Networking
___________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, David O'Brien wrote:
> Did anybody video or audio tape record Kirk McKusicks's "BSD at Berkeley"
> USENIX BoF talk?
>
> --
> -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
>
>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:42:23 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>
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To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>,
Dan Langille <junkmale@xtra.co.nz>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker?
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I'm sure its great for women...
___________________________________________________________________________
Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net
lynch@bsdunix.net
Systems Administrator Rush Networking
___________________________________________________________________________
On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> Mark Ovens writes:
> > >
> > > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed
> > > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones.
> >
> > It's when you get inside toilets
>
> Funny, I'd feel much more comfortable _outside_ them :-)
>
> Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many
> know the concept :-) is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention --
> *choke*
>
>
>
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>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 14:35:49 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" <green@FreeBSD.ORG>,
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, Doug <Doug@gorean.org>,
Alex Zepeda <garbanzo@hooked.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 'rtfm' script
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> I think that whomever actually writes it will get to name it whatever
> the hell they way, that's what I think. :)
"chuck" ala MS's 'bob'
*runs and hides*
-Alfred
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 16:57:22 1999
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From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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To: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> amazingly -- well -- stupid.
>
> http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
(if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 16:59:18 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:50:20 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: atrn@zeta.org.au
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An interesting signature
Message-ID: <19990707005019.A66720@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
References: <19990706113146.G451@freebie.lemis.com> <199907060405.OAA03073@ska.bsn>
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Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:05:15PM +1000, atrn@zeta.org.au wrote:
> Before people get carried away...bsod is real. It comes with xscreensaver.
>
> :; which bsod
> /usr/X11R6/bin/bsod
> :; grep bsod /var/db/pkg/xscreensaver*/+CONTENTS
> man/man1/bsod.1.gz
> bin/bsod
There's also more BSOD stuff at
<URL:http://www.tbtf.com/archive/current-issue.html#s07>
for the true masochist.
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17: 3:59 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:38 -0500
From: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
>
> > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> > amazingly -- well -- stupid.
> >
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
>
> What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are
making both the server and client on the same single machine.
>
> Kris
>
> -----
> "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
> because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
> -- Unknown
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
--
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17: 7: 6 1999
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From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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To: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
> >
> > What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> > (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
>
> The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are
> making both the server and client on the same single machine.
Fair enough, that does seem silly.
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:47:57 1999
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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
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Subject: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ...
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Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing
a cgi then Linux?
http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:50:50 1999
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To: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" <mishania@demos.net>
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Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote:
> Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;)
Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English?
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:57:26 1999
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From: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@freebsd.org,
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Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning
> (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess.
The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you
are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same
thing in the other. It's skewed.
Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081
veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com
Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD
== The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:57:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:27:16 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ...
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On Tuesday, 6 July 1999 at 21:48:03 -0300, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing
> a cgi then Linux?
>
> http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
To quote:
> The script was run three times and the results from the third run is
> what appears below.
To be cynical: we kept running the tests until they looked better for
Linux.
Seriously, it doesn't look as if the test was very well done, nor very
representative. The scripts both produced "Hello, world\n". Possibly
the overhead of starting new processes has something to do with it,
since FreeBSD was significantly faster for the straight HTML tests.
Greg
--
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:28:44 1999
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From: Ask Bjoern Hansen <ask@valueclick.com>
To: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Cc: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@freebsd.org,
advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done
> > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so
> > amazingly -- well -- stupid.
> >
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
>
> What's stupid about them? [...]
That they're distributed out of context.
The context was not OS benchmarking, but comparing different ways of
generating content.
- ask
--
ask bjoern hansen - <http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/>
more than 14M impressions per day, <http://valueclick.com>
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:32: 7 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:48:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: An Interesting Signature
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An equiv. of BSOD (badly named Black Screen of Death) also comes standard
with KDE. It just seems to be a port of the XScreenSaver version
(KDEised, of course).
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From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:45:36 1999
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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ...
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Tuesday, 6 July 1999 at 21:48:03 -0300, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing
> > a cgi then Linux?
> >
> > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/
>
> To quote:
>
> > The script was run three times and the results from the third run is
> > what appears below.
>
> To be cynical: we kept running the tests until they looked better for
> Linux.
>
> Seriously, it doesn't look as if the test was very well done, nor very
> representative. The scripts both produced "Hello, world\n". Possibly
> the overhead of starting new processes has something to do with it,
> since FreeBSD was significantly faster for the straight HTML tests.
The fact that the numbers were close *and* weren't heavily skewed towards
Linux except on the cgi's is why I didn't immediate just shoot it
down...the numbers weren't so far out as to give the *feel* of being
slanted...
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 0:58: 8 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:10:34 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>,
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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Alex Perel writes:
>
> The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you
> are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same
> thing in the other. It's skewed.
I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact
that it's not even worth calling it a bench:
- inconsistent setup
- no tuning description
- no optimization description
- no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since
this one will obviously stay in memory)
etc...
It's just not a benchmark.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1: 5:20 1999
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From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Phil Regnauld" <regnauld@ftf.net>,
"Alex Perel" <veers@disturbed.net>
Cc: <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Cheesy benchmarks
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:05:08 -0700
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> I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact
> that it's not even worth calling it a bench:
>
> - inconsistent setup
> - no tuning description
> - no optimization description
> - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since
> this one will obviously stay in memory)
>
> etc...
>
> It's just not a benchmark.
What it shows is that Linux and FreeBSD are roughly comparable in their
ability to serve simple web pages and CGIs, at least with loopback
networking and in their approximately default configurations. It further
shows that some methods of generating web pages seem much faster than
others.
That's about it. Is anyone making any other claims for it?
DS
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1: 5:41 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:18:23 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: James Howard <howardjp@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" <mishania@demos.net>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
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James Howard writes:
> On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote:
>
> > Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;)
>
> Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English?
Butch ?
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1:14:59 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:13:27 -0500
From: Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
To: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>
Cc: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>,
Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, Jul 7, 1999, David Schwartz wrote:
> > It's just not a benchmark.
>
> What it shows is that Linux and FreeBSD are roughly comparable in their
> ability to serve simple web pages and CGIs, at least with loopback
> networking and in their approximately default configurations. It further
> shows that some methods of generating web pages seem much faster than
> others.
But what real good is that other than to get publicity that you did a
benchmark? I'm sure I can get better performance through lo0 than I would
through tun0, but what's the point?
--
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>
I am still waiting for the advent of the computer science groupie.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1:30:13 1999
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Subject: RE: Cheesy benchmarks
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>
> But what real good is that other than to get publicity that you did a
> benchmark? I'm sure I can get better performance through lo0 than I would
> through tun0, but what's the point?
>
Again, it all depends on what claims are being made. If the claim is just
'different things work differently, so you should always check" then hey,
fine. Do a benchmark if you feel like it.
I once had a fun time comparing how fast Linux could pump data through a
loopback TCP connection to how fast our $100,000+ SGI system could. Linux
beat it by a factor of 10. Did it measure anything useful? No. Did it annoy
the SGI people? Yes. :)
DS
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 3:48:58 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:46:42 +0200
From: Anton Berezin <tobez@plab.ku.dk>
To: James Howard <howardjp@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" <mishania@demos.net>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?)
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On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 08:50:46PM -0400, James Howard wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote:
>
> > Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;)
>
> Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English?
Belka means ``a squirrel'', and Strelka means ``an arrow''.
--
Anton Berezin <tobez@plab.ku.dk>
The Protein Laboratory, University of Copenhagen
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 6:12:42 1999
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From: Alex Perel <veers@disturbed.net>
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>,
Chris Costello <chris@calldei.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact
> that it's not even worth calling it a bench:
>
> - inconsistent setup
> - no tuning description
> - no optimization description
> - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since
> this one will obviously stay in memory)
>
> etc...
>
> It's just not a benchmark.
It's a wonderful display of incompetence and lack of thought, that's what it
is. Methinks it was done haphazardly, and for what purpose? Anyone even
remotely educated will look at this and laugh. :)
Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081
veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com
Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD
== The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 7:24:53 1999
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From: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>
To: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded?
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> Wouldn;t that be nice =)
Quite!
> That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to.
I emailed McKusick directly and he said:
I am glad you liked it. It feels like I am dwelling on the good old
days a bit too much when I give that talk, so it is always
encouraging to have folks say they like it. I am not aware of its
being recorded. Most of it does appear in my chapter in the recently
published O'Reilly book `Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source
Revolution' ISBN 1-56592-582-3.
~Kirk
--
-- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 7:42:47 1999
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To: David O'Brien <obrien@NUXI.com>
Cc: Pat Lynch <lynch@bsdunix.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded?
Message-Id: <19990707154234.B75054@palmerharvey.co.uk>
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On Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 07:24:42AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote:
> > Wouldn;t that be nice =)
>
> Quite!
>
> > That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to.
>
> I emailed McKusick directly and he said:
>
> I am glad you liked it. It feels like I am dwelling on the good old
> days a bit too much when I give that talk, so it is always
> encouraging to have folks say they like it. I am not aware of its
> being recorded. Most of it does appear in my chapter in the recently
> published O'Reilly book `Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source
> Revolution' ISBN 1-56592-582-3.
Aha. You mean:
<URL:http://www.ora.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html>
(TOC at <URL:http://www.ora.com/catalog/opensources/book/toc.html>)
--
Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator
In Mountain View did Larry Wall
Sedately launch a quiet plea:
That DOS, the ancient system, shall
On boxes pleasureless to all
Run Perl though lack they C.
--
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 10: 3: 1 1999
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From: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: IA64
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This probaly should go to FreeBSD-questions, but here we go anyway:
Will FreeBSD offer any support for the new upcoming IA-64 architecture
(Merced) from Intel? From what I hear, Linux already is working on their
port. It would be a shame that Linux comes up with a kernel for a
server-class CPU and we are left in the dust with our server-class OS that
runs on cheap processors.
Yann
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 10:19: 4 1999
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From: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>
To: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: IA64
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Yann Ramin wrote:
>
> This probaly should go to FreeBSD-questions, but here we go anyway:
>
> Will FreeBSD offer any support for the new upcoming IA-64 architecture
> (Merced) from Intel? From what I hear, Linux already is working on their
> port. It would be a shame that Linux comes up with a kernel for a
> server-class CPU and we are left in the dust with our server-class OS that
> runs on cheap processors.
The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include
documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since,
it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port.
It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly.
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 19: 4: 7 1999
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:03:51 -0600
To: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote:
>The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include
>documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since,
>it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port.
It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information
from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time
anyone can lay hands on a real processor.
Work SHOULD be in progress NOW. Otherwise, Linux will indeed
be there first.
>It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly.
Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 20: 2:56 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:02:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>
To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IA64
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote:
>
> >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include
> >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since,
> >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port.
>
> It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information
> from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time
> anyone can lay hands on a real processor.
Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course
Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to
the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more.
> Work SHOULD be in progress NOW. Otherwise, Linux will indeed
> be there first.
Linux might get there first anyways. They do have more people doing coding.
Of course, if the compilers aren't there when the silicon ships it won't
matter.
>
> >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly.
>
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
Intel also hasn't released a processor that was as far ahead of the
compiler development. It won't be clear that what Intel can deliver
until they ship something. There are lots of cool stuff in IA64, but
if Intel can't deliver mostly bug-free chips, for less than a couple
times what the equivalent Alpha or PA-RISC costs. This is especially
true if the the compilers aren't very good at introduction.
David
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 20: 5:47 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
s/that flopped//
--
| Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD |
| winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever |
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 22:37:43 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tani Hosokawa <unknown@riverstyx.net>
To: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>
Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote:
> > >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include
> > >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since,
> > >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port.
> >
> > It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information
> > from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time
> > anyone can lay hands on a real processor.
>
> Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course
> Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to
> the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more.
Not to sound rude or anything, but don't you think permanently withholding
development information for their processor would be pretty damn stupid?
---
tani hosokawa
river styx internet
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23: 5:46 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:18:44 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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Brett Glass writes:
>
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years.
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:37:10 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>,
David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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On Thursday, 8 July 1999 at 8:18:44 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote:
> Brett Glass writes:
>>
>> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
>
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years.
Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor?
Greg
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:25:41 +0200
From: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>,
David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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Greg Lehey writes:
> >
> > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years.
>
> Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor?
I knew it! 25 wasn't enough :-)
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23:35:11 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:35:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Lemon <jlemon@americantv.com>
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To: unknown@riverstyx.net, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: IA64
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In article <local.mail.freebsd-chat/Pine.LNX.4.10.9907072234030.14425-100000@avarice.riverstyx.net> you write:
>On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> > >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include
>> > >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since,
>> > >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port.
>> >
>> > It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information
>> > from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time
>> > anyone can lay hands on a real processor.
>>
>> Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course
>> Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to
>> the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more.
>
>Not to sound rude or anything, but don't you think permanently withholding
>development information for their processor would be pretty damn stupid?
``Appendix H''.
--
Jonathan
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From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23:39: 4 1999
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Subject: Re: IA64
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote:
>
> >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly.
>
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great
success).
>
> --Brett
>
>
Nadav
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0: 0: 8 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 00:59:25 -0600
To: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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At 10:02 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote:
>Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course
>Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to
>the general public.
Which they will. That's their deal with Red Hat.
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
>Intel also hasn't released a processor that was as far ahead of the
>compiler development. It won't be clear that what Intel can deliver
>until they ship something. There are lots of cool stuff in IA64, but
>if Intel can't deliver mostly bug-free chips, for less than a couple
>times what the equivalent Alpha or PA-RISC costs. This is especially
>true if the the compilers aren't very good at introduction.
The technology for such compilers is well-known. Cygnus already has a
prototype. (Alas, GCC is foreclosing competition in this market, so it may
be what many of us are stuck with.)
--Brett
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:06:37 -0600
To: Nadav Eiron <nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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At 09:40 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great
>success).
The i860 was the first of a series of embedded (not high-end) processors.
It was quickly superceded by the i960, which was (and still is) successful.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0: 7:29 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:04:35 -0600
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
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At 03:37 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
>Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor?
At the time, it was. It was a darned sight better than the
8008. But that was longer ago. I was talking about the iAPX 432.
The architecture of the iAPX 432 was truly inspired. But the
chips were too expensive to make at the time, no one understood
how good the basic architecture was, and there was no bus fast
enough to allow the chips to shine.
Intel has never had a flop like that since.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0:13:53 1999
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 09:40 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>
> >Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great
> >success).
>
> The i860 was the first of a series of embedded (not high-end) processors.
> It was quickly superceded by the i960, which was(and still is) successful.
The fact the only remaining relative of the i860 is the i960 (and they are
not close relatives, BTW) is exactly why I say it wasn't successful. The
i860 was _not_ an embedded design. It was a general purpose RISC CPU that
Intel never managed to sell in quatities, mainly for lack of software
support, and because they couldn't move fast enough to keep up with
competition (mostly Sparc). We still have around here a parallel machine
based on some 128 or so such processors... Intel was _forced_ to
concentrate on the i960, simply because it couldn't make any money selling
the i860.
>
> --Brett
>
>
Nadav
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:56:44 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>,
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Subject: Intel's flops (was: IA64)
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On Thursday, 8 July 1999 at 1:04:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 03:37 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor?
>
> At the time, it was. It was a darned sight better than the
> 8008. But that was longer ago.
That was 25 years ago. And the 8080 was a pretty weak processor, even
for the day. It was just the one of the high-end microprocessors, not
a high-end processor, which still implied hundreds of chips.
> I was talking about the iAPX 432.
Ah, that was some time later.
> The architecture of the iAPX 432 was truly inspired. But the chips
> were too expensive to make at the time, no one understood how good
> the basic architecture was, and there was no bus fast enough to
> allow the chips to shine.
My recollection was that the 432 was just plain too slow. The
instruction set was not conducive to performance.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 4: 5:59 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:05:48 -0700
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com>
To: announce@bafug.org
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: July BAFUG (San Francisco) meeting
Message-ID: <19990708040548.A38395@ontario.mooseriver.com>
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Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group
-- San Francisco BAFUG --
The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will
be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, July 8th. This months meeting
will be held at Whistle's corp. office in Foster City. The meeting will
start at 7:30 pm.
Agenda:
==> Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming
Install-A-Thon to be held on July 24th at the Robert Austin
Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon
will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and
CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). See
http://www.bafug.org/Install.html
for more details including directions on how to get to the Oakland
Convention Center
==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat passed `round.
==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics
Location:
This months meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office which is
at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City There is plenty parking.
Time:
The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The
meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so
to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm.
Directions:
WWW directions:
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=260+Marsh+Drive&csz=94404&Get+Map=Get+Map
By Muni:
Unknown
By BART:
Unknown
By Car:
From San Jose/SJC
Take Hwy 101 to Hwy 92 East, then exit at Foster City
Blvd. Turn left at light onto Metro Center Blvd. Turn left
(Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five blocks
until the road ends at a T intersection into Third Ave. Turn
left onto Third Ave. Go to firstlight, then turn left onto
Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
From San Francisco/SFO
Take Hwy 101 south to San Mateo, approx. 10 miles south of
SFO. Exit at Third Ave., loop under overpass and around to
travel East on Third Ave. Follow for a couple of miles. Turn
right onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
From Oakland/East Bay
Take Hwy 92, the San Mateo Bridge, Westbound. Take the first
exit, Foster City Blvd. Follow exit around to your right. Turn
left (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five
blocks until the road ends at a T intersection into Third
Ave. Turn left onto Third Ave. Go to first light, then turn
left onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
WWW info:
More info can be found at the following URLs
http://www.whistle.com
http://www.bafug.org
Contact:
Please contact either Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before
July 8th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and
coffee we will need.
Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com
Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com
--
Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 4:23:44 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:23:39 -0700
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com>
To: announce@bafug.org
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: BAFUG.org upgrade
Message-ID: <19990708042339.C38395@ontario.mooseriver.com>
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bafug.org, the machine, will be going down this weekend for an upgrade.
The outage is expected to last 3 to 4 hours.
Josef
--
Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 5:25:11 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: <mestery@visi.com>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org,
Nathan Ahlstrom <nrahlstr@winternet.com>
Subject: FreeBSD users in Minneapolis area
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Nathan Ahlstrom and myself are wondering how many FreeBSD users there
are in the Minneapolis, MN, area. We are thinking of getting together
informally in the coming weeks for dinner, and if there is enough
interest, maybe forming a users group here. Reply to myself and Nathan
(nrahlstr@winternet.com) if you are interested, and we'll post back to
this list when we will be meeting for dinner. Thanks!
--
Kyle Mestery | StorageTek's Storage Networking Group
mestery@visi.com | http://www.freebsd.org/
mestery@netwinder.org | http://www.netwinder.org/
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 6:26: 5 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 07:24:52 -0600
To: Nadav Eiron <nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 10:15 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>The fact the only remaining relative of the i860 is the i960 (and they are
>not close relatives, BTW) is exactly why I say it wasn't successful. The
>i860 was _not_ an embedded design.
Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell
it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on
any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used
one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they
actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would
cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available.
I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released
which emphasized this.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 6:36: 9 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 07:35:16 -0600
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Intel's flops (was: IA64)
Cc: Phil Regnauld <regnauld@ftf.net>,
David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
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At 04:56 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
>My recollection was that the 432 was just plain too slow. The
>instruction set was not conducive to performance.
Actually, the instruction set was quite good. It was a bit stream,
and sub-instructions that did things like add indexing or indirection
could be added by tagging on a few bits. Much more efficient, in terms
of bus bandwidth, than RISC.
Trouble was, the CPU didn't fit on a single chip, and the chips that
comprised it had very large die areas. Limitations in the logic of
the time made the interface between the chips slower than it should
have been, and there was no way to speed things up via pipelining or
FIFOs; RAM was too dear.
Today, that architecture could be built right. Then, it was too far
ahead of its time.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 7:50:51 1999
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From: Nadav Eiron <nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL>
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To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
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Subject: Re: IA64
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
>
> Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell
> it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on
> any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used
> one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they
> actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would
> cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available.
>
> I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released
> which emphasized this.
There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long
ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed
early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from
this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology):
http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm
<quote>The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the
i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first
general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering.
</quote>
i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance:
http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/
The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really
makes little sense).
Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to
massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching
(just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by
Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860
with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts
and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a
sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it
was unsuccessful even in that niche.
Besides, did you ever program for the i860? It's architecture is not that
similar to that of the i960. Actually, it's far from being similar.
Anyway, I can take a look at the Intel i860 Microprocessor Architecture
Reference next week, when I can get to the library. I hope that's
authority enough for us to settle this little dispute, if you are not yet
convinced... :-)
After all, it's kind of sad. The i860 had its merits (though I admit it
was a bit weird to program).
>
> --Brett
>
>
Nadav
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 8:27:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:27:10 -0600
To: Nadav Eiron <nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>,
Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
>
> >
> > Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell
> > it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on
> > any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used
> > one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they
> > actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would
> > cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available.
> >
> > I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released
> > which emphasized this.
>
>There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long
>ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed
>early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from
>this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology):
>
>http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm
>
><quote>The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the
>i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first
>general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering.
></quote>
Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is,
they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT
as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so.
At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used
as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD
NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose.
This is illegal behavior, since it is discriminatory and an attempt to
manipulate markets. But it was done nonetheless.
>i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance:
>http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/
>
>The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really
>makes little sense).
You're forgetting history. At this time, the TMS340 intelligent graphics
controller was threatening to take over this market. (There were many very
good one-card X servers based on that chip.) The i860 was part of Intel's
response.
>Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to
>massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching
>(just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by
>Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860
>with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts
>and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a
>sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it
>was unsuccessful even in that niche.
The i860 was used in a number of demonstration machines that did
floating point multiprocessing, because its floating point capabilities
exceeded what could be done on any x86 processor available at the time.
But this wasn't considered by Intel to be a "general-purpose" market, since
these machines were produced in small volumes and were ludicrously expensive.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 10:11:19 1999
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Subject: Re: IA64
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:02:52 CDT."
<Pine.NEB.3.96.990707213420.27433B-100000@shell-2.enteract.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:14:47 -0400
From: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>
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>
> >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly.
>
> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years.
Yikes! The iAPX432 was seventeen years ago? :-)
It remains to be seen whether the Merced will be accepted in the
marketplace, even if Intel gets it out the door on time.
I'm betting against them this time.
--
Jerry Hicks
wghicks@bellsouth.net
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 10:30:28 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:30:07 -0600
To: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: Yann Ramin <atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com>,
freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net
In-Reply-To: <199907081714.NAA03921@bellsouth.net>
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At 01:14 PM 7/8/99 -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote:
>Yikes! The iAPX432 was seventeen years ago? :-)
Yep. Funny how time flies when you're futzing around with software. ;-)
>It remains to be seen whether the Merced will be accepted in the
>marketplace, even if Intel gets it out the door on time.
>
>I'm betting against them this time.
I'm not. There's too much at stake. AMD is catching up with them, and VIA
is threatening their strategy of closing markets by taking over the x86
motherboard and chipset markets. Intel sees Merced as its only chance to
outrun the competition. The iAPX 432 was done as a blue-sky project at a
time when the company was unexpectedly flush with money. They could afford
to dream and pour money into speculative R&D.
But this situation is different. Never underestimate Intel when they're
truly desperate.
Also, the presence of free UNIX will make a difference this time around.
It once was difficult to find OS support for alternative processors. Now,
with Linux, NetBSD, and OpenBSD, it isn't.
In any event, to get back on topic, we should have folks under NDA who
enjoy the same terms as the Linux vendors -- who are VERY hot for this
processor.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 11:31:42 1999
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From: Joseph Scott <joseph@randomnetworks.com>
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Subject: Jordan and Guns
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I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are
some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year.
http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html
Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that
thing :-)
Joseph Scott
joseph@randomnetworks.com
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 12: 4:18 1999
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To: "The Hermit Hacker" <scrappy@hub.org>,
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Cc: <chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Known MMAP() race conditions ... ?
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:04:07 -0700
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In general, an operating system should be used for what it does best. If
FreeBSD doesn't run INN very well, use Solaris or Linux. And don't upgrade
production servers without making sure the new operating system version can
handle the job well.
At WebMaster, we have NT servers, Linux servers, FreeBSD servers, Sparc
servers, and an Irix server. We use each machine for what it does best.
> ah, okay, so you are saying that FreeBSD shouldn't be demonstrated using
> software that taxes/tweaks bugs in it?
Yes, that's how demonstrations work. You don't demonstrate the things that
don't work.
> Boy, does that sound like a quick
> road to problems... Management: but, when you sold us on this operating
> system, it was perfectly stable. Me: ya, well, I picked and choose the
> software I ran for the demo, sorry...
Just be honest. "FreeBSD does a lot of things very well, let's use it for
the things it does well." Don't be an OS bigot. I'm sorry, no operating
system is best for everything.
> personal, sounds like something Microsoft would do, not something that
> *I'd* want to base a decision on.
Actually, Microsoft would probably tell you NT is best for everything and
there's no reason to ever consider any other operating system.
DS
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 13: 9:12 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:09:00 -0700
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@gdead.adm.ispchannel.net>
To: Joseph Scott <joseph@randomnetworks.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns
Message-ID: <19990708130900.A5743@gdead.adm.ispchannel.net>
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On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400, Joseph Scott wrote:
>
> I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are
> some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year.
>
> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html
>
> Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that
> thing :-)
This picture shows what happens when you suggest to Jordan that he should
rewrite sysinstall ;-)
Josef
--
Josef Grosch | FreeBSD 3.2 | Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group
jgrosch@ispchannel.com | www.freebsd.org | www.bafug.org
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 14:28:34 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:33:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@rush.net>
To: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>
Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>,
Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: Known MMAP() race conditions ... ?
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote:
>
> In general, an operating system should be used for what it does best. If
> FreeBSD doesn't run INN very well, use Solaris or Linux. And don't upgrade
> production servers without making sure the new operating system version can
> handle the job well.
>
> At WebMaster, we have NT servers, Linux servers, FreeBSD servers, Sparc
> servers, and an Irix server. We use each machine for what it does best.
>
> > ah, okay, so you are saying that FreeBSD shouldn't be demonstrated using
> > software that taxes/tweaks bugs in it?
I know running -current is somewhat of a gamble, but since you gus
think the bug is fixed in it, why not try a snapshot and see how it
stands up against the INN code?
-Alfred
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 14:50:24 1999
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From: John Reynolds~ <jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com>
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:50:03 -0700 (MST)
To: scrappy@hub.org
Subject: HCL ...
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[ moved to -chat ]
> One of the guys I work with is asking me about a Hardware
> Compatibility List for FreeBSD, and, sadly, other then the sparse lists in
> the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/hw.html), I know of none.
>
> He pointed me to the following URL of what Linux/RedHat has
> available, and am wondering if we have somethign similar floating around
> out there:
>
> http://www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld.html
>
This is one of the things I've been hoping to find time to start. I'm hoping
that Jordan (or whoever) can host it under the FreeBSD, Inc. web
area. Unfortunately I've not had the time to dedicate to the effort.
I recently put together a PC that would dual-boot win98 (only when "needed")
and FreeBSD. I wanted to have lots of "spiffy" hardware like a CD-RW and
scanner, cool sound card, etc. It took me a LOOOOOOOONG time to do the
research in our mailing lists, etc. to make sure that what I wanted to buy
would be supported under 3.1 and then 3.2. I longed for an HCL ....
My original idea was to send something out to -questions and maybe more
lists that was basically a big questionaire of what people currently run,
what they've tried that didn't run or work, if they had to patch the kernel
to get something work, what did they do, etc. Only your imagination would
limit how you could organize and search the information.
But, I think as more people migrate from Linux to FreeBSD, they're gonna
want to know how to setup XYZ piece of hardware--and equivalently as people
come from other worlds or build up new PCs, or buy "canned" PCs, they're
going to want to know what works and what doesn't work.
I really do hope I'll have time in the future to try and start this
effort!
Any ideas?
-Jr
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| John Reynolds CEG, CCE, Next Generation Flows, HLA |
| Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 868-6512 |
| jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 15:25:20 1999
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:25:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: The Splash Screens are Back!
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I'm happy to report that the splash screen gallery is available again at
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/splash/ I've updated the help at the
beginnign to include setting up of PCX splash screens in 3.2 as well as using
/boot/loader.conf in 3.2 instead of /boor/loader.rc. Feel free to send any
comments, questions, and (especially) new splash screens to me. Enjoy!
---
John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu> -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/
PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 15:49: 6 1999
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From: Rod Taylor <dark@idiotswitch.org>
To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: HCL ...
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:50:34 +0000
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I'd be interested in helping with this. However, I don't know SHTML (yet).
On Thu, 08 Jul 1999, John Reynolds~ wrote:
> [ moved to -chat ]
>
> > One of the guys I work with is asking me about a Hardware
> > Compatibility List for FreeBSD, and, sadly, other then the sparse lists in
> > the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/hw.html), I know of none.
> >
> > He pointed me to the following URL of what Linux/RedHat has
> > available, and am wondering if we have somethign similar floating around
> > out there:
> >
> > http://www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld.html
> >
>
> This is one of the things I've been hoping to find time to start. I'm hoping
> that Jordan (or whoever) can host it under the FreeBSD, Inc. web
> area. Unfortunately I've not had the time to dedicate to the effort.
>
> I recently put together a PC that would dual-boot win98 (only when "needed")
> and FreeBSD. I wanted to have lots of "spiffy" hardware like a CD-RW and
> scanner, cool sound card, etc. It took me a LOOOOOOOONG time to do the
> research in our mailing lists, etc. to make sure that what I wanted to buy
> would be supported under 3.1 and then 3.2. I longed for an HCL ....
>
> My original idea was to send something out to -questions and maybe more
> lists that was basically a big questionaire of what people currently run,
> what they've tried that didn't run or work, if they had to patch the kernel
> to get something work, what did they do, etc. Only your imagination would
> limit how you could organize and search the information.
>
> But, I think as more people migrate from Linux to FreeBSD, they're gonna
> want to know how to setup XYZ piece of hardware--and equivalently as people
> come from other worlds or build up new PCs, or buy "canned" PCs, they're
> going to want to know what works and what doesn't work.
>
> I really do hope I'll have time in the future to try and start this
> effort!
>
> Any ideas?
>
> -Jr
>
> --
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> | John Reynolds CEG, CCE, Next Generation Flows, HLA |
> | Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 868-6512 |
> | jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ |
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
--
This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it
what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only
seize it with both hands and make the most of it. -Al Capone
--
Rod Taylor
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 16:12:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:45:04 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Joseph Scott <joseph@randomnetworks.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns
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On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400, Joseph Scott wrote:
>
> I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are
> some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year.
>
> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html
Any chance of anything like this happening at the FreeBSD Con?
N
--
[intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu>
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From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns
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At 01:09 PM 7/8/99 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote:
>> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html
> >
> > Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that
> > thing :-)
>
>This picture shows what happens when you suggest to Jordan that he should
>rewrite sysinstall ;-)
You killed Deirdre! You b*****d! ;-)
Actually, I kinda like the last picture. Looks like it was taken just
after Jordan fired and before ESR had a chance to react.
--Brett
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 17:26:23 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:31:33 -0400
From: Randall Hopper <aa8vb@ipass.net>
To: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>,
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: The Splash Screens are Back!
Message-ID: <19990708193133.A6924@ipass.net>
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John Baldwin:
|I'm happy to report that the splash screen gallery is available again at
|http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/splash/ I've updated the help at the
|beginnign to include setting up of PCX splash screens in 3.2 as well as using
|/boot/loader.conf in 3.2 instead of /boor/loader.rc. Feel free to send any
|comments, questions, and (especially) new splash screens to me. Enjoy!
Thanks.
Very nice! I see what you mean DES. Those Saturn pics and Sam's
bsd_daemon are real classy.
Time to reboot and check 'em all out full-screen :-)
Randall
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 19: 0:58 1999
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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:00:43 -0700
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com>
To: chat@bafug.org
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: {BAFUG-C} Re: {BAFUG-A} July BAFUG (San Francisco) meeting
Message-ID: <19990708190043.A43087@ontario.mooseriver.com>
Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com
References: <19990708041335.B38395@ontario.mooseriver.com> <Pine.BSF.3.95.990708170744.25198J-100000@current1.whistle.com>
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On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 05:08:26PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
> Anyone coming?
I know this is last minute but does anyone plan on showing up?
Josef
>
>
>
> On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Josef Grosch wrote:
>
> >
> > Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group
> > -- San Francisco BAFUG --
> >
> >
> > The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will
> > be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, July 8th. This months meeting
> > will be held at Whistle's corp. office in Foster City. The meeting will
> > start at 7:30 pm.
[ DELETED ]
> > Location:
> > This months meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office which is
> > at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City There is plenty parking.
[ DELETED ]
> > By Car:
> > From San Jose/SJC
> > Take Hwy 101 to Hwy 92 East, then exit at Foster City
> > Blvd. Turn left at light onto Metro Center Blvd. Turn left
> > (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five blocks
> > until the road ends at a T intersection into Third Ave. Turn
> > left onto Third Ave. Go to firstlight, then turn left onto
> > Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
> >
> > From San Francisco/SFO
> > Take Hwy 101 south to San Mateo, approx. 10 miles south of
> > SFO. Exit at Third Ave., loop under overpass and around to
> > travel East on Third Ave. Follow for a couple of miles. Turn
> > right onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
> >
> > From Oakland/East Bay
> > Take Hwy 92, the San Mateo Bridge, Westbound. Take the first
> > exit, Foster City Blvd. Follow exit around to your right. Turn
> > left (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five
> > blocks until the road ends at a T intersection into Third
> > Ave. Turn left onto Third Ave. Go to first light, then turn
> > left onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot.
--
Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses
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From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 19:11:26 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:41:14 +0930 (CST)
From: Kris Kennaway <kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
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To: Peter Wemm <peter@netplex.com.au>
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: New kid on the block
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On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Peter Wemm wrote:
> > > You can kinda do this already, or at least you could You could use SIMOS
> > > to emulate Alpha hardware and you could run the FreeBSD/Alpha -current and
> > > get some real benefit from the diversity. :-) SIMOS btw, is an Alpha and
> > > MIPS hardware emulator/simulator. It's largely responsible for the Alpha
> > > port in the first place, hosted on x86. I don't know if SIMOS still runs
> > > FreeBSD/Alpha -current though.
> >
> > Actually, SimOS/alpha can't be hosted on anything except another alpha. I
> > bootstrapped the kernel using Linux/alpha (NetBSD didn't run on my 433au
> > at the time).
>
> Damn, there's that 'Linux hosting FreeBSD' angle again... :-]
Well, as I mentioned recently somewhere I was playing (with reasonable
success) with running the Debian userland under FreeBSD emulation a while ago
- does that count as the reverse? :-)
Kris
-----
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown
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From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 2:46:34 1999
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 05:46:10 -0400
To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
From: "Christopher R. Bowman" <crb@ChrisBowman.com>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 09:27 AM 7/8/99 -0600, Brett Glass wrote:
>At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to
sell
>> > it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on
>> > any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used
>> > one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they
>> > actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would
>> > cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be
available.
>> >
>> > I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released
>> > which emphasized this.
>>
>>There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long
>>ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed
>>early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from
>>this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology):
>>
>>http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm
>>
>><quote>The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the
>>i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first
>>general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering.
>></quote>
>
>Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is,
>they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT
>as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so.
>At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used
>as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD
>NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose.
Um, Brett, I can't debate with you what you may have on handouts or heard at
presentations. However, in an odd coincidence I was just throwing out some old
Intel duplicates and marketing stuff I happen to have here, and what you
present above is diametrically opposed to the impression I get from that
material. The 1992 Intel Product Overview book (section 4) clearly tags that
i960s as targeted for embedded systems, but makes no such mention for the i860s
and in fact instead mentions engineering workstations, scientific computing, 3d
workstations and multi-user systems. Further the Overview of the i860XP
Supercomputing Microprocessor, and the Overview of the i860 64-Bit
Microprocessor, Chapter 1 state: the i860 CPU ... is designed to bring
supercomputing power to the desktop. And later: This high performance can be
applied across a wide variety of compute intensive design implementations, from
supercomputers, through technical workstation, to graphics subsystems and
application accelerators for personal computer. Also: The Intel i860 CPUs are
a family of supercomputing microprocessors designed to provide affordable
supercomputing class power to a range of systems from PC's to workstations to
massively parallel supercomputers.
Further Intel published a document called the i860 Platform Reference Design
Guide which was basically a reference workstation design containing "complete
hardware theory of operation descriptions, schematics, PAL equations, timing
and state diagrams and data sheets for the system's major components.
I get the distinct impression that the i860s were targeted at high end
engineering workstation type environment. It is not clear if this was to
prevent cannibalization of the commodity x86 market or because these machines
would presumably have prices that would have kept them out of the lower end.
Clearly, however, Intel was marketing the i860s at general
computing/workstations and the i960s at embedded design.
>This is illegal behavior, since it is discriminatory and an attempt to
>manipulate markets. But it was done nonetheless.
>
>>i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance:
>>http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/
>>
>>The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really
>>makes little sense).
>
>You're forgetting history. At this time, the TMS340 intelligent graphics
>controller was threatening to take over this market. (There were many very
>good one-card X servers based on that chip.) The i860 was part of Intel's
>response.
Ah the TMS340, I still have their data books here too. As I remember, general
consensus at the time seemed to be that this chip was hot shit, and so I
eagerly ordered my data book. I have to say upon reading it that I was not to
impressed.
>>Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to
>>massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching
>>(just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by
>>Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860
>>with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts
>>and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a
>>sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it
>>was unsuccessful even in that niche.
>
>The i860 was used in a number of demonstration machines that did
>floating point multiprocessing, because its floating point capabilities
>exceeded what could be done on any x86 processor available at the time.
>But this wasn't considered by Intel to be a "general-purpose" market, since
>these machines were produced in small volumes and were ludicrously expensive.
>
>--Brett
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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>
--------
Christopher R. Bowman
crb@ChrisBowman.com
http://www.ChrisBowman.com/
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From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 6:20:50 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:19:41 +0200
From: Michael Elbel <Michael.Elbel@consol.de>
To: brett@lariat.org
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: IA64
Message-ID: <19990709151940.A13563@consol.de>
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In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
>At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote:
>Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is,
>they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT
>as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so.
>At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used
>as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD
>NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose.
Well, all I can say is that in a former life at a former company we were
indeed building workstations with i860 processors and only those. Intel
*themselves* supplied a SYSVR4 port to the i860 that we used as the base of
our own version.
Deficiencies in the processor design aside (context switches e.g. were
horrendously expensive due to the awkward way you had to save the processor
state), they ok for their time, at least on floating point.
Porting a X server to the thing was also not much fun what with the
difficulties we had mapping a frame buffer uncached. I don't know if they
actually produced a somewhat bug free processor stepping before
discontinuing them.
I remember that we were pretty proud of outperforming almost everything
else on mandelbrot calculations back in 1992 or so. This was before the HP
snake and Alpha processors came along, of course.
I believe that Gary Jennejohn still uses one of the beasts as an X
terminal.
So, yes, there may have been a Intel rep who claimed that the things should
not be used as general purpose CPU. Fact is also that Intel indeed was
selling them as such, even doing a UNIX port themselves. The left not
knowing what the right is doing? Ask three people at a large company and
get 5 different answers? Surely doesn't happen only at Intel.
Michael
--
\|/
-O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256
/|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped)
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From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 10:23:55 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:22:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu>
To: "Person, Roderick" <personrp@ccbh.com>
Cc: "'Nate'" <publisher@laptop.ompages.com>, gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu,
chat@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: FreeLinux (Debian/GNU BSD)
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[moved to -chat and out of -questions]
On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Person, Roderick wrote:
> This, IMHO, is a great idea!!! I have been playing with FreeBSD for
> some months now. And the kernel Kicks Ass!!! It just 'feels' better
> too. But the package installation and management is terrible. It took
> me at least 3 weeks to figure it out.
Note I've never used Debian (only ever RH Linux for a bit), but why is
cd /usr/ports/some_port_dir/some_port
make install clean
hard to figure out? Did you read the handbook? Have you tried using pib?
(Ports Index Browser - /usr/ports/sysutils/pib)
That said, there is a new, still in development, package system in the
works.
Brett
***********************************************************
Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu *
brett@daemonnews.org *
*
http://www.daemonnews.org/ *
***********************************************************
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From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 10:29:42 1999
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:29:38 +0200
From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.org>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: pictures of 1999 Usenix Technical conference
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Hi,
At
http://www.iae.nl/users/guido/gif/usenix99/
you'll find some pictures of the Usenix Technical conference in Monterey.
-Guido
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From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 10 21:48:29 1999
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:48:11 -0600
To: "Christopher R. Bowman" <crb@ChrisBowman.com>
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: IA64
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199907090946.EAA07069@quark.ChrisBowman.com>
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At 05:46 AM 7/9/99 -0400, Christopher R. Bowman wrote:
>Um, Brett, I can't debate with you what you may have on handouts or heard at
>presentations. However, in an odd coincidence I was just throwing out some old
>Intel duplicates and marketing stuff I happen to have here, and what you
>present above is diametrically opposed to the impression I get from that
>material. The 1992 Intel Product Overview book (section 4) clearly tags that
>i960s as targeted for embedded systems, but makes no such mention for the i860s
>and in fact instead mentions engineering workstations, scientific computing, 3d
>workstations and multi-user systems.
In which the i860 would work as a COPROCESSOR. They kept on emphasizing that they
wanted it to control, say, the screen or disk I/O.
--Brett
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