From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 6:44: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5961014F45; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 06:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk ([192.168.1.2] ident=exim) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 110lGC-000BJ6-00; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 13:20:40 +0100 (envelope-from ben@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk (ident=ben) by rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 110lGC-0006gd-00; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 13:20:40 +0100 (envelope-from ben@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:20:40 +0100 From: Ben Smithurst To: Greg Lehey Cc: Kris Kirby , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Auction(s) Ended - Item Deemed Inappropriate for eBay Listing (fwd) Message-ID: <19990704132040.A25674@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk> References: <000101bec5c8$667ea720$021d85d1@youwant.to> <377EE2ED.B99A0D11@airnet.net> <19990704153557.Y709@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990704153557.Y709@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 3 July 1999 at 23:28:29 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > >> And I never got to see it/him listed. > > Did anybody save the page? I've got a copy in my local web proxy's cache, if anyone else wants a copy and hasn't got one just let me know. -- Ben Smithurst | PGP: 0x99392F7D ben@scientia.demon.co.uk | key available from keyservers and | ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 8:43:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7036914C59 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r25.bfm.org [208.18.213.121]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id LAA04080 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:43:39 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: An interesting signature Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just discovered this signature in a different list: >The nice thing about Windows is: >It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. > Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 9:54: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (rh3.bfm.org [208.18.213.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1466814C3F for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:53:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA00242; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:52:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:52:15 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Wes Peters Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Janie Dykes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> References: <377EA69C.6729DB43@softweyr.com> <19990704012556.A220@whizkidtech.net> <377F0969.B4BF6496@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <377F0969.B4BF6496@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 01:12:41AM -0600 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Moved to chat from hackers] On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 01:12:41AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > "G. Adam Stanislav" wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 06:11:08PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Trust me, greenie, those of us who a FAR from 16 wish we weren't. ;^) > > > > What, and miss the sixties??? Get back to your handbasket! :-) > > Our experiences of the sixties were probably different. No doubt about that. I spent mine in Czechoslovakia, a country that was trying to replace Stalinism with democracy, just to be crushed by the August 21, 1968, invasion and the subsequent restoration of hardcore Communism. When I say I would not want to miss the sixties, I am not talking wearing flowers, using LSD, or going to Woodstock. I did none of that (for that matter, I did not hear about Woodstock until the eighties). The reasons I am glad I experienced the sixties are not because of what happened or did not happen to me personally. No, what I like about it is that I personally lived through a period when for the first time in recorded history mankind as a whole realized that things can be different. That we do not have to do everything exactly the same way our parents did, and their parents did, and so on for millenia. There of course always were changes from generation to generation. But they were small. And they were not global. In the sixties changes were radical, and they sweapt the whole planet. Not all of the changes were necessarily for the better (as both your and my personal experience show). The point I am trying to make is that more changes happened, and on a larger scale, within that one decade than ever before in human history, or ever since (by now, anyway). And that is why I would not trade the experience of having lived through that decade for youth or for anything else. Adam > I spent mine as a > dirt-poor "GI brat", the son of an American military man, watching my father > fly to far away lands to get maimed. He was wounded in Tripoli when Qaddafi > took Libya from King Idris, and later in Thailand during the Khmer Rouge > reign of terror, sending young pilots to die at Thud Ridge. We just wanted > him home safe. > > We spent 1970 at Fort Benning, Ga. We went to the commissary every Thursday, > and watched the fleet of chaplains cars coming and going, doing next of kin > notification. That (and the space program) are what the sixties mean to me. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10: 1:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F2514C34; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA046032488; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:48:08 -0400 Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Kris Kirby Cc: David Schwartz , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Auction(s) Ended - Item Deemed Inappropriate for eBay Listing (fwd) In-Reply-To: <377EE2ED.B99A0D11@airnet.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 3 Jul 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > And I never got to see it/him listed. http://www.FreeBSD.org/~billf/pictures/jkh.jpg was the funny picture in the item listing. There was some comment made in there that went something like: "Over exposure to this core member may result in colon cancer." Those were the funny points. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10:16:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A834514C9D for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:16:31 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , Subject: RE: An interesting signature Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bec640$f59f58a0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Irix does this too. It also makes a really neat 'crash' sound. DS > Just discovered this signature in a different list: > > >The nice thing about Windows is: > >It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' > first. > > > > Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 10:25:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mu.egroups.com (mu.egroups.com [207.138.41.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 622B114BEF for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sams@virtualtek.com) Received: from [10.1.2.15] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 1999 18:25:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:25:25 -0700 From: sams@virtualtek.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: web based groupware Message-ID: <7lo5e5$m7r1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.73 Content-Length: 352 X-Mailer: www.eGroups.com Message Poster Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and play with the features. Let me know what you think. Cheers, Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 13:34: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7BFC14CAE for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:34:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from p49s01a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.209.74] helo=marder-1.) by sand.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 110sxb-0000D8-00; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:33:59 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id VAA00855; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:30:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:30:05 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990704213005.A439@marder-1> References: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:43:39AM -0500 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:43:39AM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > Just discovered this signature in a different list: > > >The nice thing about Windows is: > >It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets > >you press 'OK' first. > > > :-) I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest? It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL. In a surprise announcement today, Microsoft President Steve Ballmer revealed that the Redmond-based company will allow computer resellers and end-users to customize the appearance of the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD), the screen that displays when the Windows operating system crashes. The move comes as the result of numerous focus groups and customer surveys done by Microsoft. Thousands of Microsoft customers were asked, "What do you spend the most time doing on your computer?" A surprising number of respondents said, "Staring at a Blue Screen of Death." At 54 percent, it was the top answer, beating the second place answer "Downloading XXXScans" by an easy 12 points. "We immediately recognized this as a great opportunity for ourselves, our channel partners, and especially our customers," explained the excited Ballmer to a room full of reporters. Immense video displays were used to show images of the new customizable BSOD screen side-by-side with the older static version. Users can select from a collection of "BSOD Themes," allowing them to instead have a Mauve Screen of Death or even a Paisley Screen of Death. Graphics and multimedia content can now be incorporated into the screen, making the BSOD the perfect conduit for delivering product information and entertainment to Windows users. The BSOD is by far the most recognized feature of the Windows operating system, and as a result, Microsoft has historically insisted on total control over its look and feel. This recent departure from that policy reflects Microsoft's recognition of the Windows desktop itself as the "ultimate information portal." By default, the new BSOD will be configured to show a random selection of Microsoft product information whenever the system crashes. Microsoft channel partners can negotiate with Microsoft for the right to customize the BSOD on systems they ship. Major computer resellers such as Compaq, Gateway, and Dell are already lining up for premier placement on the new and improved BSOD. Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable one." > Adam > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 14:39: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA27614BFF for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.47]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker> for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:42:22 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:38:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: INTERNIC are slow. very slow Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I submitted two requests to internic back in December. They've just implemented them. Now I have to submit another change to back out these changes. Bah. Here's the header from one: From: Host Registration Account Subject: Re: [NIC-990622.f3c8] NS.FREEBSDDIARY.CX Date sent: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:51:20 -0400 (EDT) To: dan.langille@dvl-software.com Modifications for the host record shown below have been completed. If you need to make additional changes to this host record, complete and submit a Host Form modification. When you submit the Host Form modification to hostmaster@internic.net, be sure to indicate MODIFY HOST as the subject of your message. The zone files, which make the Internet work, are updated daily, 7 days a week. Requests received and completed by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time are included in that days' zone file update, and should be visible on the Internet the following morning. However, your modified record may not be visible in Network Solutions' WHOIS database for 24-48 hours from the time of the zone file update. Network Solutions Registration Services email hostmaster@internic.net========================================================= ================ (NZ6-HST) Hostname: NS.FREEBSDDIARY.CX Address: 210.55.152.41 Contact: Langille, Dan (DL4720) dan.langille@DVL-SOFTWARE.COM [No phone] Record last updated on 04-Jul-99. Record created on 15-Apr-99. ========================================================================= >From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 >Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net [192.168.120.14]) > by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20099 > for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43 -0400 (EDT) -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 15: 4:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D98F15166 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA22975 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:03:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 8A31B885F; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:50:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:50:38 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow Message-ID: <19990704235038.A68636@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:38:59AM +1200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5443 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dan Langille: > I submitted two requests to internic back in December. They've just > implemented them. Now I have to submit another change to back out these > changes. Bah. I have several changes pending too. Why do they insist to register hosts before having them as primary/secondaries ? What a waste of time ! -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 16:59:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E522414C59 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:59:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA27399; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:29:17 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA08983; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:29:17 +0930 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:29:16 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Dan Langille Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow In-Reply-To: <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > >From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 > >Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net [192.168.120.14]) > > by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20099 > > for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Wow, your mail took 30 years and 7 months to be delivered?! Doesn't that violate an RFC somewhere? :-) Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 17:38: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B648F15187 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:37:55 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Ollivier Robert" , Subject: RE: INTERNIC are slow. very slow Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:37:55 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bec67e$9f86e7b0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <19990704235038.A68636@keltia.freenix.fr> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have several changes pending too. Why do they insist to register hosts > before having them as primary/secondaries ? What a waste of time ! They insist on registering hosts before having them as primary/secondaries so that they know the contacts for a name server. This also associates an object with that name server so that they can establish who has the right to add domains to that name server. Before they did this, some of our customers would submit domain applications listing our shell machines as name servers. God only knows why. Internic would create records for these name servers automatically with our customers as contacts, and we had to manually delete them. It was a _major_ pain. How many name servers do you have that registering them separately is a problem? DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 17:39:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834BA1523A for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:38:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.47]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990705004131.IEJM112692.mta2-rme@wocker>; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:41:31 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Kris Kennaway Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:38:45 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: INTERNIC are slow. very slow Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: chat@freebsd.org References: <19990704214222.RRQF282564.mta1-rme@wocker> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990705004131.IEJM112692.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jul 99, at 9:29, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > > > >From dan.langille@dvl-software.com Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 > > >Received: from rs.internic.net (bipmx1.lb.internic.net > > >[192.168.120.14]) by opsmail.internic.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id > > >RAA20099 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:24:43 > > >-0400 (EDT) > > Wow, your mail took 30 years and 7 months to be delivered?! Doesn't that > violate an RFC somewhere? :-) Reckon they got the post office beat? -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 20: 0:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B66914E09 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-70-224.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.70.224]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04449; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA00502; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:04:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jul 1999 11:52:15 CDT." <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:04:01 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: [snips] > We spent 1970 at Fort Benning, Ga. We went to the commissary every Thursday, > and watched the fleet of chaplains cars coming and going, doing next of kin > notification. That (and the space program) are what the sixties mean to me. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with the heroes we had pitching for science. Growing up in Mississippi during the sixties meant a few other things to me too. Although the repression we experienced under the racist state government certainly does not compare to that in Czechoslavakia of 1968, it did further motivate me to pursue science and technology if just to escape the ignorance that prevailed there. I wouldn't trade my experiences of that period, but I certainly would not want to turn the clock back either. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 21:27:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0CB15207 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-45.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.45] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA15138 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:27:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37803423.29D6DC58@airnet.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:27:15 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Unusually small cache... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org last pid: 3216; load averages: 0.25, 0.14, 0.17 up 0+07:40:44 23:25:25 79 processes: 6 running, 70 sleeping, 3 zombie CPU states: 5.0% user, 0.0% nice, 5.0% system, 5.4% interrupt, 84.7% idle Mem: 41M Active, 179M Inact, 18M Wired, 11M Cache, 8345K Buf, 1064K Free Swap: 300M Total, 1K Used, 300M Free Shouldn't the cache be much larger for a machine that's been playing MP3's all day long? -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 4 23:56:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (rh0.bfm.org [208.18.213.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656F1152A3 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id BAA00258; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:56:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net>; from W Gerald Hicks on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 11:04:01PM -0400 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 11:04:01PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's > a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with > the heroes we had pitching for science. Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: Gagarin was the first man in space.] > Growing up in Mississippi during the sixties meant a few other things > to me too. Although the repression we experienced under the racist state > government certainly does not compare to that in Czechoslavakia of 1968, > it did further motivate me to pursue science and technology if just to > escape the ignorance that prevailed there. Repression is repression. And ignorance is ignorance. Your experience is just as real as mine. With all the repression we experienced under Communism, they at least did encourage the study of science. The lack of that is one thing I will never understand about the US. It seems that people like Jerry Falwell are more respected than NASA. So are psychics and astrologers. Back home it was the exact opposite. For example, the two most popular teen magazines were dedicated entirely to science and technology. In high school, we had at least two periods of math every single day (although that was not the case with every HS, we were specialized in computer programming, it even says so on my HS diploma). By the way, July 4 is the day that always reminds me of August 21, 1968. For some inexplicable reason the sound of fireworks always makes me shiver. Sometimes it is so bad, I have to lie down in bed and cover my ears with pillows. It is only the sound. If I am actually *watching* the fireworks, I enjoy the spectacle. But if I am home and only hear the sound, it horrifies me. > I wouldn't trade my experiences of that period, but I certainly would not > want to turn the clock back either. Yes, same here. Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:14:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE321529E for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 02:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA11879; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:14:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 Jul 1999 11:14:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > Gagarin was the first man in space.] Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:15:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B22152B9 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 02:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA11947; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:15:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kris Kirby Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unusually small cache... References: <37803423.29D6DC58@airnet.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 Jul 1999 11:15:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kris Kirby's message of "Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:27:15 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kirby writes: > last pid: 3216; load averages: 0.25, 0.14, 0.17 up 0+07:40:44 > 23:25:25 > 79 processes: 6 running, 70 sleeping, 3 zombie > CPU states: 5.0% user, 0.0% nice, 5.0% system, 5.4% interrupt, 84.7% > idle > Mem: 41M Active, 179M Inact, 18M Wired, 11M Cache, 8345K Buf, 1064K Free > Swap: 300M Total, 1K Used, 300M Free > > Shouldn't the cache be much larger for a machine that's been playing > MP3's all day long? des@des ~% top -b 3 last pid: 23857; load averages: 0.64, 0.40, 0.29 up 10+22:16:56 11:14:58 89 processes: 2 running, 87 sleeping Mem: 77M Active, 11M Inact, 26M Wired, 4236K Cache, 8024K Buf, 4752K Free Swap: 512M Total, 48M Used, 463M Free, 9% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 784 des 35 0 4768K 2152K RUN 206:30 11.28% 11.28% xamp 394 root 2 0 26612K 21552K select 523:24 2.88% 2.88% XF86_SVGA 20030 des 2 0 6488K 4488K select 11:51 0.00% 0.00% emacs DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:22:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B8214EFB for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 02:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id LAA19007; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:21:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id LAA97579; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:33:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:33:09 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:14:16AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out France (where I'm from) on the globe. A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity and refrigerators "over there". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:27: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C0014C3D for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 02:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.59]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:30:23 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Phil Regnauld Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:27:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> References: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:14:16AM +0200 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. > > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity > and refrigerators "over there". I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New Zealand. They wonder the same thing. Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 2:31:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5A1151E2 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 02:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id LAA19864; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:32:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id LAA97628; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:44:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990705114418.17394@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:44:18 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: ; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:27:01PM +1200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dan Langille writes: > > > > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity > > and refrigerators "over there". > > I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it > doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New > Zealand. They wonder the same thing. Tell 'em you got beavers running on treadmills. Or sheep, for that matter. > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. Just heard of them compooters, mind ya. Looks purty. -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 3:59:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 894151535E; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 03:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA14227; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:58:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail References: <19990702095858.V69050@pavilion.net> <19990702104239.X69050@pavilion.net> <19990702195432.A45632@keltia.freenix.fr> <19990705112143.E82833@pavilion.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 Jul 1999 12:58:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: Josef Karthauser's message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:21:43 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Karthauser writes: > On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 07:54:32PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > This is not a technical problem. This is a human problem. Don't try to apply > > technical solutions to human problems. He's bad, spank him. You don't have > > time to waste with such users, just remove them. > Of course it is - but not as much fun. It's much more fun confusing him ;) > [how smart does he think he is exactly?] Personally, I find it much more gratifying to just walk in, confiscate the Ethernet cable, and walk right out again. Of course, that's just for effect (and personal gratification); you can't watch his face while you pull the cable from the patch panel or disable the port he's hooked up to on backbone switch, since you don't let him into the NOC. (Yes, I used to read bofh.* and the Scary Devil Monastery on a regular basis. I don't have time for that any more, unfortunately.) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 4:11: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B36E14DB9 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 04:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id NAA06391; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:10:22 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:10:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Josef Karthauser , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Personally, I find it much more gratifying to just walk in, confiscate > the Ethernet cable, and walk right out again. Of course, that's just > for effect (and personal gratification); you can't watch his face > while you pull the cable from the patch panel or disable the port he's > hooked up to on backbone switch, since you don't let him into the NOC. > > (Yes, I used to read bofh.* and the Scary Devil Monastery on a regular > basis. I don't have time for that any more, unfortunately.) We had a couple of misbehaving NT/Windows machines, having a submask of 255.255.0.0, all trying to find their domain controller at the same time, creating huge piles of fragments and broadcasts on the sitewide net (yep, flat B IP-space, all bridged with cheap bridges :-( The whole site of 2000 people was unreachable. The system administrator of that building claimed it was not his fault until someone walked in and tore out the fibre, damaging the ethernet controller of the bridhe and the cable in the process, on purpose. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6: 9:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE67E14FBE for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 06:09:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id WAA29650; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:39:23 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA16573; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:39:23 +0930 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:39:20 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Greg Lehey Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD locations (was: Pictures from USENIX) In-Reply-To: <19990705160732.N451@freebie.lemis.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > -34.53 138.35 "newton, kris, grog" # Adelaide, SA Australia > > I'm not in Adelaide, remember? Here are my coordinates: > > -35.14 138.77 grog [...] > > BDE is the easternmost and Jordan the westernmost. The largest > > concentration so far is Boulder Colorado with 4, followed by the > > Adelaide gang with 3. > > Hmm. Doesn't Daniel O'Connor have commit privileges? And it's time > for Mike Smith to come home, then we'd have 5 :-) Alas, I'm shortly going to be taking the score back down to 2: in exactly a month I'm going to be heading off to LA to start a PhD at USC (Mathematical Physics, if anyone's interested) Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6:42: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651D014DA7 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 06:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09939 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:43:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 08:41:44 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 08:41:23 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:41:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com References: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:55:48 -0500" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history. And for many of the more ethnocentric Americans, nothing done by some "damn rooshin" matters anyway... "after all, they claim to have invented everything from fire to atomic power!" In most forums, Adam's qualifications would have been appropriate, if not necessarily believed. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 6:44: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E207114DA7 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 06:43:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09946 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:45:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907051345.IAA09946@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 08:43:43 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 08:43:42 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:43:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com References: <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> In-reply-to: <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jul 99, at 21:27, Dan Langille wrote: > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying > > > > Gagarin's youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger > > > > generation here: Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > > > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. > > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity > > and refrigerators "over there". > I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it > doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New > Zealand. They wonder the same thing. > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. Of course, I still wonder how you can read the monitors, and how appliances work, when they are upside down! Mike P.S. - It was just a joke... PLEASE don't explain it to me (unless your explanation is amusing...) Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: CPU: (n.) acronym for Central Purging Unit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:13:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F5514DB9 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rage@cyberwitch.org) Received: from localhost (rage@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22956; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Rhiannon X-Sender: rage@bytor.rush.net To: Mike Avery Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker In-Reply-To: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad :P lor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ how do you know she's a witch ? * * * rage@cyberwitch.org rage@rush.net rage@free.bsdunix.net On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Mike Avery wrote: > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't > necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born > after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history. > > And for many of the more ethnocentric Americans, nothing done by > some "damn rooshin" matters anyway... "after all, they claim to have > invented everything from fire to atomic power!" > > In most forums, Adam's qualifications would have been appropriate, > if not necessarily believed. > > Mike > > ====================================================================== > Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com > (409)-842-2942 (work) > ICQ: 16241692 > > * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * > > A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: > I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:35:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A15714C05 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA41571; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:34:51 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD locations (was: Pictures from USENIX) Message-ID: <19990705083451.A41493@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990705160732.N451@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 10:39:20PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 10:39:20PM +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Alas, I'm shortly going to be taking the score back down to 2: in exactly a > month I'm going to be heading off to LA to start a PhD at USC (Mathematical > Physics, if anyone's interested) Well it's about time. I was (I think) the only SoCal person on that list. Is this critical mass for a (strangely physics-oriented) LAFUG? Matt -- Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * intellect. -J.R. Mashey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 8:38:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from plab.ku.dk (plab.ku.dk [130.225.105.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E70B14C05 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tobez@plab.ku.dk) Received: from lion.plab.ku.dk (lion.plab.ku.dk [130.225.105.49]) by plab.ku.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18775; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:38:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tobez@localhost) by lion.plab.ku.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08117; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:36:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tobez) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:36:08 +0200 From: Anton Berezin To: Rhiannon Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker Message-ID: <19990705173608.F5735@lion.plab.ku.dk> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Rhiannon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400, Rhiannon wrote: > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in > Hollywad :P For more on this topic, see Omon Ra by Viktor Pelevin ISBN: 0811213641 The basic idea is the same, only this time about the Russian Space Program. Great fun to read. Don't know about this translation, though. -- Anton Berezin The Protein Laboratory, University of Copenhagen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:27:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r18.bfm.org [208.18.213.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F4415093 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:27:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA00234; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:24:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:24:04 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net>; from Phil Regnauld on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:09AM +0200 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:09AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. Five years ago I moved to Rhinelander, a small town in Northern Wisconsin. Several months later, as I walked into the local bookstore, I was immmediately approached by the people who worked there. They told me to expect a phone call from a local high school teacher. She was about to take a trip to Siberia. The bookstore people told her I was from Slovakia, so I should know all about Siberian customs, as Slovakia is very close to Siberia. One of the things the particular bookstore sells in abundance is the globe. I took one of the globes and placed it on the counter. I asked them to find Rhinelander on it, which they did even though its name was not printed on the globe. I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So, I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't *you* tell her all about Siberian customs." They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-) Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:29:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r18.bfm.org [208.18.213.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FD215093 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:29:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA00240; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:28:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:28:24 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Rhiannon Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker Message-ID: <19990705132824.B220@whizkidtech.net> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Rhiannon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:13:17AM -0400, Rhiannon wrote: > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad > :P Interesting. Just two or three weeks ago my Zen teacher talked about this in his class. He pointed out the ultimate argument against that idea: If it were done by Holywood, the pictures would have been much clearer. Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 11:30:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB34D15093 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:30:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from pb0s02a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.226.177] helo=marder-1.) by sand.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 111DVj-0006Ua-00; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:30:36 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id TAA00499; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:08:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:08:31 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Dan Langille Cc: Phil Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990705190831.E256@marder-1> References: ; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:27:01PM +1200 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 09:27:01PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:33, Phil Regnauld wrote: > > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > > > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. > > > > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity > > and refrigerators "over there". > > I get that question often when travelling. And strangely enough, it > doesn't matter if they first learn I'm Canadian first or I live in New > Zealand. They wonder the same thing. > > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. It's when you get inside toilets and running hot water that your quality of life really improves :-). > -- > Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited > The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ > NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ > The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 12: 0:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A3A1537D for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.40]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAC74 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:57:58 -0400 Message-ID: <3780E06D.F4CD1A9D@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 11:42:21 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld wrote: > ... > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. > > That _was_ before they asked me if we had electricity > and refrigerators "over there". > This somehow makes me feel better ;-); I was asked exactly the same thing about South America when I first visited the US. Some woman even said she had visited Colombia "over there in South Africa". On the topic of repression, my University is known for having started all the local "revolutionary movements". It was the only free-thought University, it had almost no cost and the police still can't go inside without a special (presidential) permit. We had some brilliant-crazy people, one of them, with an incredible memory, decided to number all the students in the University and called everyone by his number, there was also a guy that square roots and logarithms faster than any computer (this was certified). I didn't live those days in all their fervor, I was born in 1968, but my brother and all my teachers did. My brother even spent one night in jail for no good reason. Many people simply disappeared, some became part of the communist guerrilla and some became members of the government; it was indeed a very difficult time in all the world, nevertheless most people liked it. Some people are surprised that I never used a slideruler, and I never programmed with cards; nowadays I can't conceive that youngsters have never seen a metalic lunchbox or that they didn't learn to do many math operations with pencil and paper (I am actually happy that they never heard the Bee Gees, Roberta Flack, and Menudo :-). The world is moving faster and faster each day, I guess this is not good or bad, it's simply different, but I do miss those days when jobs and, in general, all forms of relationship were stable. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 12:59:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE0614F61 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-45.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.45] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA18989; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:59:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37810E97.90AE60E9@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:59:19 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Hibma Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nick Hibma wrote: > We had a couple of misbehaving NT/Windows machines, having a submask of > 255.255.0.0, all trying to find their domain controller at the same > time, creating huge piles of fragments and broadcasts on the sitewide > net (yep, flat B IP-space, all bridged with cheap bridges :-( The whole > site of 2000 people was unreachable. The system administrator of that > building claimed it was not his fault until someone walked in and tore > out the fibre, damaging the ethernet controller of the bridhe and the > cable in the process, on purpose. Can amyone explain to me the rational of setting the subnet mask only to have Windows pick the normal "default" for the number. (IE: 10.x.x.x domain, 255.0.0.0, I subnet it for 255.255.255.0. Both appear in the routing table.) Sometimes it's good when the operating system doesn't think for you. -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 14:59:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8403914D68 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:59:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA12573; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:01:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199907052201.SAA12573@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker In-Reply-To: from Rhiannon at "Jul 5, 99 11:13:17 am" To: rage@cyberwitch.org (Rhiannon) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rhiannon wrote, > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad > :P Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 15:14:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A27E15159 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:14:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id SAA12609; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:15:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199907052215.SAA12609@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> from "G. Adam Stanislav" at "Jul 5, 99 01:24:04 pm" To: adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: regnauld@ftf.net, des@flood.ping.uio.no, wghicks@bellsouth.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G. Adam Stanislav wrote, > On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:09AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > > I agree with G. Adam's cautiousness -- when I first moved > > to the US in 1983, the teacher (this was 4th grade :-) introduced > > me to the class, and asked if anybody wanted to point out > > France (where I'm from) on the globe. > > > > A kid volunteered, and put his finger on Russia. > > Five years ago I moved to Rhinelander, a small town in Northern Wisconsin. > Several months later, as I walked into the local bookstore, I was immmediately > approached by the people who worked there. Rhinelander? My grandpa used to drink that 'Rhinelander' brand beer they made/make up there. Gross stuff. Anyway, 'Mericans' perception of the reaches of civilization are not merely limited to you dang fur'iners. Back in the early 60's my mom used to waitress in a resort hotel in eastern Wisconsin. Mind you, now-a-days this area could probably be described as suburban Milwaukee, so even then it was close to the city. A large chunk of the vacationers are people coming up from Chicago. My mom used to love disappoint them when they asked smirking, and wide-eyed, "Do you have TV up here?" And she responded cooly, "Just NBC, CBS, and ABC." Mind you, this continues today. I went to school at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, MD and my sister went to Georgetown in, well, in Georgetown, DC. I grew up in suburban Milwaukee, and kids honestly asked if we had cows in the backyard. Now living in NJ, I can say there are still _lots_ of people who don't realize that there inhabited regions of the continent besides the East and West Coasts. I mean, didn't they watch "Happy Days?[0]" > They told me to expect a phone call from a local high school teacher. She > was about to take a trip to Siberia. The bookstore people told her I was > from Slovakia, so I should know all about Siberian customs, as Slovakia is > very close to Siberia. > > One of the things the particular bookstore sells in abundance is the globe. > I took one of the globes and placed it on the counter. I asked them to find > Rhinelander on it, which they did even though its name was not printed on > the globe. > > I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So, > I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since > Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't > *you* tell her all about Siberian customs." > > They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-) > > Adam [0] The suburban existence depicted in that show is said to be based on the suburb where I grew up. Of course, all the suburbs on Milwaukee's North Shore say that. But Whitefish Bay or Shorewood have the best claims. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 15:35:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0460315206 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA24313 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:35:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 1D072885F; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:55:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:55:54 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: Pictures from USENIX Message-ID: <19990705235553.A75969@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List References: <50572.931115702@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990704185436.B53737@mad> <37804CE7.D821B50F@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <37804CE7.D821B50F@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 12:12:55AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5443 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Wes Peters: > 48.8 2.28 "ollivier" # Les Ulis, France 48.7 2.17 "roberto" # Les Ulis, France We are 5 frenchies, four of them are near Paris so you can put "pb" (Pierre Beyssac), "charnier" (Philippe Charnier), "nsouch" (Nicolas Souchu) more or less near me. Both "pb" and "charnier" are actually in Paris. 48.85 2.83 "pb,charnier" # Paris, France ~48.7 ~2 "nsouch" # Somewhere inside "Yvelines", France Jean-Marc is more in the South East (Besançon). 47.24 6.05 "jmz" # Besançon, France -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16: 5: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F61114D16 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA80177 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:30:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:30:24 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: web based groupware Message-ID: <19990705233023.A79849@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <7lo5e5$m7r1@eGroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <7lo5e5$m7r1@eGroups.com>; from sams@virtualtek.com on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:25:25AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:25:25AM -0700, sams@virtualtek.com wrote: > We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web > based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto > their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have > an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and > play with the features. Let me know what you think. This is actually something I've been pondering on and off. Would a web based calendar be of any use to the FreeBSD community? Not a "everyone gets an account and can add items" groupware calendar, as VirtualTek are writing, but just a list of "Upcoming events of importance" organised by date, with links to more information as necessary, probably maintained by hand. Useful? N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16: 9:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E53153A4 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA80613; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:33:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:33:39 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Mark Ovens Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <19990704213005.A439@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990704213005.A439@marder-1>; from Mark Ovens on Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 09:30:05PM +0100 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 09:30:05PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest? > It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL. [snip] > Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source > community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to > innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see > any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable > one." XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1) NAME bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator SYNOPSIS bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] DESCRIPTION The bsod program is the finest in personal computer emula- tion. bsod steps through a set of screens, each one a recreation of a different failure mode of an operating system. Sys- tems depicted include Microsoft's Windows 95 and Windows NT, Commodore-Amiga's AmigaDOS 1.3, SPARC Linux, SCO UNIX, the Apple Macintosh (both the MacsBug debugger and the rarer "Sad Mac"), and the Atari ST. ... N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 16:58: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from matadore.montereyhigh.com (unknown [205.155.37.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D9C14BCD for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Received: from localhost (atrus@localhost) by matadore.montereyhigh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07570; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:58:56 GMT (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:58:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Yann Ramin To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: web based groupware In-Reply-To: <19990705233023.A79849@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I don't know what we would put on it :) There aren't many exactly scheduled events (software releases are hit and miss), exluding FreeBSDCon and USENIX, but beyond that... On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:25:25AM -0700, sams@virtualtek.com wrote: > > We're looking for sites who may want to integrate customizable web > > based groupware (email, message board, calendar and address book)onto > > their sites. Joydesk 2.1 runs on NT, Linux and FreeBSD. When you have > > an opportunity, please visit http://joydesk.com, open free account and > > play with the features. Let me know what you think. > > This is actually something I've been pondering on and off. Would a web > based calendar be of any use to the FreeBSD community? > > Not a "everyone gets an account and can add items" groupware calendar, > as VirtualTek are writing, but just a list of "Upcoming events of > importance" organised by date, with links to more information as necessary, > probably maintained by hand. > > Useful? > > N > -- > [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, > non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs > the links. > -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 17:18:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [208.139.222.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6BC15001 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03986; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:18:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id TAA04258; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:18:24 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id TAA26467; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:18:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:18:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1) > > >NAME > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > >SYNOPSIS > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 17:26:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A77314CFE for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:26:32 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Jonathan Lemon" , , Subject: RE: An interesting signature Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bec746$328bbf50$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >NAME > > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > > > >SYNOPSIS > > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] > > > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) > -- > Jonathan char *j=0; *j=*j+1; DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 17:29: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BFE14BD3 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA38638; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:28:54 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: cjclark@home.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker In-Reply-To: <199907052201.SAA12573@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today Crist J. Clark wrote: > Rhiannon wrote, > > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad > > :P > > Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either. The Flat Earth Society, which claims that the moon landings were done in Hollywood, claimed that Simpson's envolement in that movie was the reason for his "legal problems". He was supposed to have learned during the filming that the moon landings were faked. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:14:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r43.bfm.org [208.18.213.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FA315373 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA00235; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:13:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:12:57 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:14:16AM +0200 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:14:16AM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. It was by no means meant to imply the younger generation does not deserve creadit. If memory serves me right, Gagarin's historic flight took places 38 years ago. That means there are adults among us whose parents weren't born yet. Gagarin's flight was also a source of major embarassment to the US government of the time. I have been in the US for about 16 years now, and I do not recall people mentioning Gagarin's name. So it seems reasonable that at least some members of the younger generation would not know who Gagarin was, and certainly *not* because of their own fault. If this offended you, I apologize, and I assure you that was not my intention. For what it's worth, I do not judge people based on their age. Every age has its advantages and disadvantages, and I have enjoyed myself in every age I lived so far (49 years, for the record). I also treat people of any age as my equal, both on the net and in the physical world, because we indeed are all equal. Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his flight? :-) Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:16:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r43.bfm.org [208.18.213.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4E21537A for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA00241; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:16:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:15:59 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: cjclark@home.com Cc: Rhiannon , mavery@mail.otherwhen.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker Message-ID: <19990705201559.B221@whizkidtech.net> References: <199907052201.SAA12573@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199907052201.SAA12573@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>; from Crist J. Clark on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 06:01:09PM -0400 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 06:01:09PM -0400, Crist J. Clark wrote: > Rhiannon wrote, > > Apollo never landed on the m00n...it was all done with mirrors in Hollywad > > :P > > Sure. Next you'll tell me O.J. Simpson never landed on Mars either. I thought that was Homer Simpson. :-) Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:31:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FE11538C for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (tc14-216-180-35-15.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.35.15] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA07898; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37815C30.91004E51@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 20:30:24 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his > flight? :-) Captain. No... wait. Lt.? -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 18:46:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (dialin2017.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9706515244 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA10554 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:48:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907060148.UAA10554@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 20:46:32 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 5 Jul 99 20:46:12 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:46:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com In-reply-to: <37815C30.91004E51@airnet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jul 99, at 20:30, Kris Kirby wrote: > G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of > > his flight? :-) > Captain. No... wait. Lt.? I would have guessed Colonel, or Lt. Colonel. However, the encyclopedia says Major. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: If I knew what I was talking about--would I be here??? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 19: 1:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC0A14C94 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29363; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:31:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA77598; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:31:47 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:31:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton Cc: Mark Ovens , "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990706113146.G451@freebie.lemis.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990704104339.009bb4f0@mail.bfm.org> <19990704213005.A439@marder-1> <19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990705233339.A80211@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 11:33:39PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 5 July 1999 at 23:33:39 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 09:30:05PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: >> I recently received the following. Many a true word spoken in jest? >> It is the last paragraph that had me ROFL. > > [snip] > >> Ballmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source >> community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to >> innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see >> any evidence that Linux even has a BSOD, let alone a customizable >> one." > > XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1) > > > NAME > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > > SYNOPSIS > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] > > DESCRIPTION > The bsod program is the finest in personal computer emula- > tion. > > bsod steps through a set of screens, each one a recreation > of a different failure mode of an operating system. Sys- > tems depicted include Microsoft's Windows 95 and Windows > NT, Commodore-Amiga's AmigaDOS 1.3, SPARC Linux, SCO UNIX, > the Apple Macintosh (both the MacsBug debugger and the > rarer "Sad Mac"), and the Atari ST. Nice one. If somebody sends me the text from a BSOD, I'll implement it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 19:33:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EFA14A0B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA15658; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:30:28 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: <199907052215.SAA12609@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Mind you, this continues today. I went to school at Johns Hopkins in > Baltimore, MD and my sister went to Georgetown in, well, in Georgetown, > DC. I grew up in suburban Milwaukee, and kids honestly asked if we had > cows in the backyard. Now living in NJ, I can say there are still > _lots_ of people who don't realize that there inhabited regions of the > continent besides the East and West Coasts. I mean, didn't they watch > "Happy Days?[0]" Sure is.... I live in Oregon. If I had a dollar for every time I've been asked if I live in a log cabin, or have a covered wagon. Of course, I always say 'Shor' do!' You'll have ta' excuse me for a momen' there seems to be a her' o' elk rootin' around in mah garden! Dangblast it! I cin't find my scattergun! Course... now if we could just convice all the Californians moving up here that this was true..... :) Maybe they'd all stay down there.... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3637C15248 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27010 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27010@agora.bafug.org> Subject: Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is : http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html Employers: The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com. Employees: When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page. Josef -- $Id: BayAreaFreeBSDJobs.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AFA1537B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27028 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27028@agora.bafug.org> Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. This is posted every 1st and 15th of the month. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- $Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BCD1539A for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27045 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27045@agora.bafug.org> Subject: Bay Area Install-A-Thon To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Install-A-Thon BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) will hold it's monthly Install-A-Thon in conjunction with the Robert Austin computer show on July 24th at the Oakland Convention Center. The purpose of these Install-A-Thons is for new and experienced user to meet and solve problem they are having with FreeBSD. It is also a time to promote FreeBSD to potential users. The Oakland Convention Center is in downtown Oakland on the corner of 10th street and Clay Street. There is some on street parking but your best bet is lot parking. Admission to the show is $5.00 unless you have a VIP pass. VIP passes can be gotten at Robert Austin's web page (http://www.robertaustin.com). The show hours are 10:00am to 4:00pm. We will be meeting at the Oakland convention center at 9:00am to setup and will be there till 4 when the show closes. Tear down usually takes about 30 minutes. If you are interested in helping please contact Josef Grosch - jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Nicole Harrington - nicole@mediacity.com More information about the show can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Install.html This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th of the month. -- $Id: InstallAnnounce.txt,v 1.5 1999/07/06 04:02:24 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 21: 4:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (agora.bafug.org [206.24.106.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62A3153A4 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27062 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199907060403.VAA27062@agora.bafug.org> Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- $Id: RetailAnnounce.txt,v 1.1 1999/03/19 09:51:06 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:28: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD9414C2A for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA12937; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:27:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:27:54 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Mike Avery Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) Message-ID: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com>; from Mike Avery on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me that Mike Avery remarked > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't > necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born > after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history. C'mon, I was born almost a decade after the moon landing! :P I never considered any of this [various early space programs] to be 'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'? the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR... -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller MF4839 http://www.over-yonder.net/ | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:48:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r15.bfm.org [208.18.213.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC28153C3 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id AAA00234; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:48:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:47:57 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Mike Avery Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990706004757.A220@whizkidtech.net> References: <37815C30.91004E51@airnet.net> <199907060148.UAA10554@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199907060148.UAA10554@hostigos.otherwhen.com>; from Mike Avery on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:46:05PM -0500 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:46:05PM -0500, Mike Avery wrote: > > > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of > > > his flight? :-) > > > Captain. No... wait. Lt.? > > I would have guessed Colonel, or Lt. Colonel. However, the > encyclopedia says Major. The encyclopedia is right. He was a Major. Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 22:51:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r15.bfm.org [208.18.213.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27A114F2B for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:51:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id AAA00240; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:50:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:50:58 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dogs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) Message-ID: <19990706005058.B220@whizkidtech.net> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name > the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR... Ends with 'aika' (or 'ajka' depending on how you translitterate). Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 23: 1:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9057914C0C for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (iras-4-85.ucdavis.edu [169.237.17.213]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA44740 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA01061 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 06:01:10 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:01:10 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded? Message-ID: <19990705230109.A1039@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Did anybody video or audio tape record Kirk McKusicks's "BSD at Berkeley" USENIX BoF talk? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 5 23:46:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51C1114C0C for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 45746 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 1999 07:49:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:49:16 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de> References: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>; from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > >NAME > > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > > > >SYNOPSIS > > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) ... it's just one of the kde's screensaver modules (or just modes). Sorry for not having more precise information, ... but I just 'pkg_deleted' the whole kde crap and switched back to my former afterstep 1.0 setup ... -andreas -- : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 0:55:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A743214E07 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:55:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id JAA28234; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:56:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA00191; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990706100826.22855@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Mark Ovens Cc: Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: ; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990705190831.E256@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990705190831.E256@marder-1>; from Mark Ovens on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:08:31PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > > > > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed > > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. > > It's when you get inside toilets Funny, I'd feel much more comfortable _outside_ them :-) Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many know the concept :-) is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention -- *choke* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 0:58: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A963514C37 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id JAA28276; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:58:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA00207; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:10:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:10:43 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 01:24:04PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G. Adam Stanislav writes: > > I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with Slovakia. So, > I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is Rhinelander. Since > Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, why don't > *you* tell her all about Siberian customs." > > They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-) Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well, there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel when driving 65 MPH). -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 1: 9:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8696E14E78 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 01:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id KAA28928; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:10:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA00286; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:22:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990706102236.40449@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:22:36 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew D. Fuller writes: > > 'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of > historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'? How many people think cubism is modern art ? Contemporary art ? Who knows the difference ? Most think "classical" painting stopped somewhere in the 19th century :-) > the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name > the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR... Laika ? You should see the great "My Life as a dog" from Lasse Hallstrøm (the ø is wrong, but I can't get the umlaut on the o). -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:33:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scalar.org (scalar.org [208.161.124.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68570153B1 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:33:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougb@scalar.org) Received: (from dougb@localhost) by scalar.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA00712; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougb) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:30:21 -0700 From: Doug Beaver To: Andreas Braukmann Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990706023021.A110@scalar.org> References: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990706094916.C454@paert.tse-online.de>; from Andreas Braukmann on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 09:49:16AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 09:49:16AM +0200, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > >NAME > > > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > > > > > >SYNOPSIS > > > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > > > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > > > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] > > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see > > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) > ... it's just one of the kde's screensaver modules (or just modes). > Sorry for not having more precise information, ... but I just > 'pkg_deleted' the whole kde crap and switched back to my former > afterstep 1.0 setup ... Just in case people are trying to find this program, it does exist and is part of the XScreenSaver screensaver distribution which was created by Jamie Zawinski. It's url is http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/ . The source to all the demos comes with xscreensaver, so if you wanted bsod to just display the Windows BSOD (and not the other ones), then it would probably be a simple patch to the source. BTW, xscreensaver is implemented in a way that allows any program which draws on the root window and understands virtual root windows to be ran when the screensaver activates, so it's easy to implement your own 'screensaver modules'. For example, xv(1) can draw on the root window, so it's possible to create slide shows that are activated when the screensaver turns on, which is what I did on my system. Doug -- "Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun." -- Mr. Burns To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:53:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994EB153DC for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:53:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:56:11 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C11002761796D0@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Phil Regnauld' , "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: how to start to be a hacker? Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:50:09 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Regnauld [SMTP:regnauld@ftf.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 10:11 AM > To: G. Adam Stanislav > Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav; W Gerald Hicks; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? > > G. Adam Stanislav writes: > > > > I asked them to find Siberia, which they could not. Same with > Slovakia. So, > > I showed them: "Here is Slovakia, here is Siberia, here is > Rhinelander. Since > > Rhinelander is much closer to Siberia than Slovakia will ever be, > why don't > > *you* tell her all about Siberian customs." > > > > They were rather embarassed, and quite apologetic. :-) > > Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- > they'll > casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down > to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well, > there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the > wheel > when driving 65 MPH). [ML] That's how much, about 1500 miles, slightly over 2000 kilometers, all interstate. I've covered greater distances in a day, but that's been driving at 100 to 130 mph. Of course, these velocities are legal around here, especially Germany. It is the 65 mph speed limit, and not the distance, that is deadly in the States :) /Marino > -- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 2:56:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FA8153DE for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA45546; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:56:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 06 Jul 1999 11:56:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:12:57 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his > flight? :-) You got me there :) BTW, did you ever read Stanislaw Lem as a kid? Pirx the Pilot was one of my teenage years' heroes :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 3:50:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B37241512B for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 03:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA46826; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:50:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Mark Ovens , Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? References: ; <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705093023.YIXL282564.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990705190831.E256@marder-1> <19990706100826.22855@ns.int.ftf.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 06 Jul 1999 12:50:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: Phil Regnauld's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Phil Regnauld writes: > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many > know the concept :-) Bing! > is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention -- > *choke* I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash basin and not a weird toilet. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 4: 7:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23506153DA for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 04:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:10:23 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C11002761796D3@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Dag-Erling Smorgrav' , Phil Regnauld Cc: Mark Ovens , Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: how to start to be a hacker? Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:03:35 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav [SMTP:des@flood.ping.uio.no] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 12:50 PM > To: Phil Regnauld > Cc: Mark Ovens; Dan Langille; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? > > Phil Regnauld writes: > > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many > > know the concept :-) > > is the most "comfortable, hygienic" > invention -- > > *choke* > > I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash > basin and not a weird toilet. [ML] Well, it definitely beats the toilet paper if you have haemmorhoids(sp?) And you are supposed to wash the hands afterwards anyway :) /Marino > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 4: 8:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (unknown [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E5C153D3 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 04:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.24]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990706111109.XWJI112692.mta2-rme@wocker>; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:11:09 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:08:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Phil Regnauld's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:08:26 +0200" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990706111109.XWJI112692.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 6 Jul 99, at 12:50, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Phil Regnauld writes: > > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many > > know the concept :-) > > Bing! > > > is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention -- > > *choke* > > I never really understood the point. But at least I know it's a wash > basin and not a weird toilet. Suffice it to say it's a way to quickly freshen up after a nooner. Or similar. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 5: 0:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ska.bsn (d163.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.9.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073A9153A0 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 04:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrn@zeta.org.au) Received: (from andy@localhost) by ska.bsn (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA03073 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:05:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andy) Message-Id: <199907060405.OAA03073@ska.bsn> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:05:15 +1000 (EST) From: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: An interesting signature To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990706113146.G451@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Before people get carried away...bsod is real. It comes with xscreensaver. :; which bsod /usr/X11R6/bin/bsod :; grep bsod /var/db/pkg/xscreensaver*/+CONTENTS man/man1/bsod.1.gz bin/bsod :; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 6:25:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A5914E07 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 06:25:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11296 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907061327.IAA11296@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 6 Jul 99 08:25:50 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 6 Jul 99 08:25:33 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:25:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com In-reply-to: <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net> References: <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 01:24:04PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 6 Jul 99, at 10:10, Phil Regnauld wrote: > G. Adam Stanislav writes: > Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll > casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down > to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well, > there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel > when driving 65 MPH). It seems to be a problem with understanding the scale of things. Yes, it's a single country. But it spans the continent. An exchange student was working for my wife in a library on the east coast, and said she was going to visit her friends in Washington over a 3-day weekend. She was going to take the train. My wife was familiar with Washington DC, so she suggested a few resturants, and was told, "No, not Washington DC, my friends are in Washington state!" If there was an excellent train service, she'd have had just enough time to make it to Washington state, get a cup of coffee, get back on the train, and drink the coffee on the way back. But train service gets worse and worse the farther you get from the east coast. Sadly, the student couldn't afford a plane ticket, so the visit with friends was considerably delayed. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: If guys were suppose to hang clothes up, door knobs would be bigger. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:15: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81FD14ECC for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09853; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:21:06 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Earn Cash In-Reply-To: <77938.931236851@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Luckycasino.com now blocked by spam filters. Sorry, as always, for > the interruption. dammit Jordan, when I opt in, I want my spam. *cough* A Hymn To Spam "What is this stuff That doth jiggle in the breeze And smells like that which I avoid when I walk in the stables?" --Hysterics of Estrus O meaty mass of fleshy flesh Who with the dark and wild And wanton world doth mesh In sizzling ecstasy, tasty and mild! From the Ellay to the halls of Prism, To the salty fields of Elysium, Come to me glorious SPAM, Thou cooked, boiled, and pressed ham! IO SPAM! IO SPAM! Come with eggs and toast, With bacon and duckling roast, Come wild! Come sliced! Come mashed! Come diced! IO SPAM! SPAM! IO! IO! With this key thy veil I rend! Thy starry blue tin I twist and bend! That the thee in thee might Become the me in me tonight! And the thee in me I feel As the me in thee I peel; With glee and abandon I stab My trident into thy quivering flab! IO SPAM! SPAM IO! IO! IO! With fervor and awe you relent Before my furious murderous intent; I whip I mash I slash I cream Thy body to consumate this dream. IO SPAM! IO SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! IO! IO! I dice I beat I flake I shake I cover thee with Shake and Bake; SPAM! O sweet sweet SPAM! Never again will I slam my ham! IO SPAM! IO SPAM! IO! O yeah, SPAM my baby... Come to papa, SPAM. Oooooh...SPAM...I never dreamed... IIOOOO!! SPAAAAAM!!* *(The secret sense of these words is to be sought in the numeration thereof.) (Anonymous) -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] systems administrator and programmer Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:43:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F089F1542C for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk ([192.168.1.2] ident=exim) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111XDn-000HhK-00; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:33:23 +0100 (envelope-from ben@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk (ident=ben) by rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111XDj-0009Ad-00; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:33:19 +0100 (envelope-from ben@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:33:19 +0100 From: Ben Smithurst To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990706163319.A35220@rainbow5.scientia.demon.co.uk> References: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan Lemon wrote: > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) I think Nik got it from /usr/ports/x11/xscreensaver, from what I can see. (bin/bsod exists in that port's PLIST.) -- Ben Smithurst | PGP: 0x99392F7D ben@scientia.demon.co.uk | key available from keyservers and | ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 8:54:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B857A14D3B for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA85994; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:54:02 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Phil Regnauld Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990706085402.C85561@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705113309.11732@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990705132404.A220@whizkidtech.net> <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990706101043.31810@ns.int.ftf.net>; from Phil Regnauld on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 10:10:43AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 10:10:43AM +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Sometimes, this also applies to europeans visiting the US -- they'll > casually say "Oh, I'll just rent a car in Seattle and drive down > to L.A." -- people are just not aware of the distances (well, > there's also the fact that you have time to dessicate at the wheel > when driving 65 MPH). Fortunately, the prevailing speed on Interstate 5 (at least between SF and LA) seems to be more like 90 MPH. Matt, who's gone local in LA and will be a menace on the Pennsylvania roadways next week. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 9:48:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt054n86.san.rr.com (dt054n86.san.rr.com [24.30.152.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4FD14C4E for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt054n86.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05041; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt054n86.san.rr.com To: Mike Avery Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: <199907061327.IAA11296@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mike Avery wrote: > If there was an excellent train service, she'd have had just enough > time to make it to Washington state, get a cup of coffee, get back > on the train, and drink the coffee on the way back. This problem is not limited to f'er'ners. My family is from the east coast, but we've lived in San Diego essentially all of my life. When relatives come to visit for the first time they are constantly amazed that we can drive around for hours and still be in the same state! Of course, you can take Connecticut, Massachusets and Rhode Island, put them all in San Diego County and rattle them around. They are further flabbergasted to learn that although you can drive for hours and stay in California, in 17 minutes you can be in a totally different country. On a totally mercenary note, I've always been interested in things like history and geography, and way back when I was in college our school used to host a lot of foreign students for various study programs. I got a lot of dates with cute "foreign girls" based purely on the fact that I was one of the few american guys that could carry on an intelligent conversation with them about their home. Of course, I only used my powers for good... *chuckle* Doug -- On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 10: 1:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand5.global.net.uk (sand5.global.net.uk [194.126.80.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2371E14F43 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from p28s03a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.211.41] helo=marder-1.) by sand5.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 111Yav-0001BV-00; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:01:22 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id RAA00286; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:06 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? Message-ID: <19990706175705.A256@marder-1> References: <19990704115215.B220@whizkidtech.net> <199907050304.XAA00502@bellsouth.net> <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990705201257.A221@whizkidtech.net>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:12:57PM -0500 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:12:57PM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > Now for extra credit: What was Gagarin's military rank at the time of his > flight? :-) > Major > Adam > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 10: 9:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548A815128 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from p28s03a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.211.41] helo=marder-1.) by sand2.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 111YiI-0000Vh-00; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:08:58 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id SAA00314; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:04:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:04:43 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) Message-ID: <19990706180442.B256@marder-1> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me > that Mike Avery remarked > > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > > > > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > > > This is a rather enlightened forum, so perhaps his aside wasn't > > necessary here. However, many people in this forum were born > > after Apollo landed on the moon. For them, that is ancient history. > > C'mon, I was born almost a decade after the moon landing! :P > I never considered any of this [various early space programs] to be > 'ancient history'. Of course, perhaps I'm atypical in my sense of > historical scale (how many people consider the 20's 'ancient history'? > the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name > the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR... > Liaka (sp?) > > > -- > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > | Matthew Fuller MF4839 http://www.over-yonder.net/ | > * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * > | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | > * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * > | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | > * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * > | middle yet" | > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 11:34: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B4415004 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA45352; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:18:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:18:16 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Yann Ramin Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: web based groupware Message-ID: <19990706081815.A45068@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990705233023.A79849@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Yann Ramin on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:58:55PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 05:58:55PM +0000, Yann Ramin wrote: > Well, I don't know what we would put on it :) There aren't many exactly > scheduled events (software releases are hit and miss), exluding FreeBSDCon > and USENIX, but beyond that... Other regular events? User group meetings, issues of DaemonNews and FreeBSDZine coming out, Jordan's junkets^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heducational visits to the Far East, that sort of thing. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 11:34:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03C315004 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA45665; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:20:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:20:41 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990706082041.B45068@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907060018.TAA26467@free.pcs>; from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 07:18:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > In article you write: > >XScreenSaver(1) XScreenSaver(1) > > > > > >NAME > > bsod - Blue Screen of Death emulator > > > >SYNOPSIS > > bsod [-display host:display.screen] [-foreground color] > > [-background color] [-window] [-root] [-mono] [-install] > > [-visual visual] [-delay seconds] > > I'm sorry, but your email must have gotten truncated, I didn't see > the attached code that implements this. Can you please resend? :-) ports/x11/xscreensaver/ I'm serious, it really does exist. Install the port, and then either run "bsod" by hand, and click in the window to cycle through the samples, or let it run as a regular screensaver. Seriously confused one of my work colleagues when an Amiga Guru Meditation error appeared on my display. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 12:16:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811F814E20 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sinbin.demos.su!yormungandr.demos.su!mishania@kremvax.demos.su) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 0@sinbin.demos.su [194.87.5.31] with ESMTP id XAA01426; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:16:24 +0400 Received: from yormungandr.demos.su by sinbin.demos.su with ESMTP id XAA65999; (8.6.12/D) Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:15:27 +0400 Received: (from mishania@localhost) by yormungandr.demos.su (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA13671; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:14:56 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from mishania) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:14:56 +0400 From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" , Mike Avery , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) Message-ID: <19990706231456.A13550@demos.su> References: <199907051343.IAA09939@hostigos.otherwhen.com> <19990706002754.A11450@futuresouth.com> <19990706180442.B256@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990706180442.B256@marder-1>; from Mark Ovens on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 06:04:43PM +0100 X-Point-of-View: Gravity is myth, - the earth sucks. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 06:04:43PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: # On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:27:54AM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: # > On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 08:41:22AM -0500, a little birdie told me # > that Mike Avery remarked # > > On 5 Jul 99, at 11:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: # > > > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: # > > > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's # # > the 1700's?). If my mind were in better shape at this moment, I'd name # > the first dog in space, too! Starts with a 'L', ISTR... # Liaka (sp?) Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;) -- -mishania To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 12:24:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D86A14F35 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03011; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: <19990705015548.B238@whizkidtech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > On Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 11:04:01PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > That was the big one for me, specifically the Apollo program. To me it's > > a shame that todays children don't seem to have anything to compare with > > the heroes we had pitching for science. > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > I first read this as "Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about being Gagarin's youngest daughter. :-)" ROTFL! -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 12:25:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A5814F49 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03031; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:24:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org exactly, we study history...and to some of us, that type of history was worth more than who the pres. of the US was at that time. ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On 5 Jul 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > Yes. I remember in my early teens fantasizing about marrying Gagarin's > > youngest daughter. :-) [For the sake of the younger generation here: > > Gagarin was the first man in space.] > > Come on, give the younger generation *some* credit. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:11:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C47914FA0; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CA4370BB; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07723; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:09:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:09:44 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cheesy benchmarks Message-ID: <19990706150944.I4158@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so amazingly -- well -- stupid. http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ -- Chris Costello The whole is the sum of its parts, plus one or more bugs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:41:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F93815441 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03443; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: "David O'Brien" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded? In-Reply-To: <19990705230109.A1039@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wouldn;t that be nice =) That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to. ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > Did anybody video or audio tape record Kirk McKusicks's "BSD at Berkeley" > USENIX BoF talk? > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 13:42:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE41214FEB for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03453; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Mark Ovens , Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to start to be a hacker? In-Reply-To: <19990706100826.22855@ns.int.ftf.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm sure its great for women... ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Mark Ovens writes: > > > > > > Mind you, both countries have come a long way since they installed > > > electricity a few months ago. Next year we should get telephones. > > > > It's when you get inside toilets > > Funny, I'd feel much more comfortable _outside_ them :-) > > Then again, some might say that the "bidet" (let's see how many > know the concept :-) is the most "comfortable, hygienic" invention -- > *choke* > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 14:35:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28DB14CE6; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12387; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Chris Costello , Doug , Alex Zepeda , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'rtfm' script In-Reply-To: <4407.931296460@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think that whomever actually writes it will get to name it whatever > the hell they way, that's what I think. :) "chuck" ala MS's 'bob' *runs and hides* -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 16:57:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E720A14CFF; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA13972; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:27:12 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA25978; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:27:11 +0930 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:27:11 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Chris Costello Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks In-Reply-To: <19990706150944.I4158@holly.dyndns.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so > amazingly -- well -- stupid. > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess. Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 16:59:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB09914CFF for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA66899; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:50:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:50:20 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: atrn@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An interesting signature Message-ID: <19990707005019.A66720@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990706113146.G451@freebie.lemis.com> <199907060405.OAA03073@ska.bsn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199907060405.OAA03073@ska.bsn>; from atrn@zeta.org.au on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:05:15PM +1000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:05:15PM +1000, atrn@zeta.org.au wrote: > Before people get carried away...bsod is real. It comes with xscreensaver. > > :; which bsod > /usr/X11R6/bin/bsod > :; grep bsod /var/db/pkg/xscreensaver*/+CONTENTS > man/man1/bsod.1.gz > bin/bsod There's also more BSOD stuff at for the true masochist. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17: 3:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD5514CFF; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDC037074; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA35312; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:38 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Kris Kennaway Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks Message-ID: <19990706190238.Q4158@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990706150944.I4158@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 09:27:11AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 6, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done > > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so > > amazingly -- well -- stupid. > > > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ > > What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning > (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess. The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are making both the server and client on the same single machine. > > Kris > > ----- > "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, > because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." > -- Unknown > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Chris Costello My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17: 7: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4D514E3F; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA13944; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:36:50 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA18942; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:36:49 +0930 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:36:49 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Chris Costello Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks In-Reply-To: <19990706190238.Q4158@holly.dyndns.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ > > > > What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning > > (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess. > > The fact that they're using the loopback device, and are > making both the server and client on the same single machine. Fair enough, that does seem silly. Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:47:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat197.79.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.197.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4D914DD0 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA81986 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:48:03 -0300 (ADT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:48:03 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing a cgi then Linux? http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:50:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from umd5.umd.edu (umd5.umd.edu [128.8.10.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D186D14FE7 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from marple.umd.edu (marple.umd.edu [128.8.10.50]) by umd5.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19722; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by marple.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15822; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:50:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: marple.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:50:46 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard X-Sender: howardjp@marple.umd.edu To: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) In-Reply-To: <19990706231456.A13550@demos.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote: > Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;) Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:57:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shattered.disturbed.net (shattered.disturbed.net [205.236.147.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C5A114CB4; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from veers@disturbed.net) Received: from shattered.disturbed.net ([205.236.147.18]:28684 "EHLO shattered.disturbed.net") by disturbed.net with ESMTP id ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:56:54 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Perel To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Chris Costello , chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > What's stupid about them? Apart from the fact that details of kernel tuning > (if any) and compiler options weren't specified, I guess. The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same thing in the other. It's skewed. Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081 veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD == The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 17:57:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6C614DE0 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04890; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:27:28 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA05706; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:27:20 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:27:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ... Message-ID: <19990707102715.N35345@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 09:48:03PM -0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 6 July 1999 at 21:48:03 -0300, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing > a cgi then Linux? > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ To quote: > The script was run three times and the results from the third run is > what appears below. To be cynical: we kept running the tests until they looked better for Linux. Seriously, it doesn't look as if the test was very well done, nor very representative. The scripts both produced "Hello, world\n". Possibly the overhead of starting new processes has something to do with it, since FreeBSD was significantly faster for the straight HTML tests. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:28:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.64.159.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F0B64150EB for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 28109 invoked by uid 500); 7 Jul 1999 01:28:38 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Jul 1999 01:28:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Chris Costello , chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > It seems someone who seems to be rather inexperienced has done > > some benchmarks with FreeBSD against Linux. They're so > > amazingly -- well -- stupid. > > > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ > > What's stupid about them? [...] That they're distributed out of context. The context was not OS benchmarking, but comparing different ways of generating content. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - more than 14M impressions per day, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:32: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from matadore.montereyhigh.com (unknown [205.155.37.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB94150EB for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Received: from localhost (atrus@localhost) by matadore.montereyhigh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09129 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:48:29 GMT (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:48:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Yann Ramin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An Interesting Signature Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An equiv. of BSOD (badly named Black Screen of Death) also comes standard with KDE. It just seems to be a port of the XScreenSaver version (KDEised, of course). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 6 18:45:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat197.79.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.197.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A99C150E5 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA82779; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:45:03 -0300 (ADT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:45:03 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot: A Linux vs FreeBSD WWW Server comparison ... In-Reply-To: <19990707102715.N35345@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 6 July 1999 at 21:48:03 -0300, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > > Just curious, anyone have any ideas as to why we'd be slower at executing > > a cgi then Linux? > > > > http://perl.pattern.net/bench/ > > To quote: > > > The script was run three times and the results from the third run is > > what appears below. > > To be cynical: we kept running the tests until they looked better for > Linux. > > Seriously, it doesn't look as if the test was very well done, nor very > representative. The scripts both produced "Hello, world\n". Possibly > the overhead of starting new processes has something to do with it, > since FreeBSD was significantly faster for the straight HTML tests. The fact that the numbers were close *and* weren't heavily skewed towards Linux except on the cgi's is why I didn't immediate just shoot it down...the numbers weren't so far out as to give the *feel* of being slanted... Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 0:58: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17DD14C8B; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id JAA17012; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:57:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA02615; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:10:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990707101034.41857@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:10:34 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Alex Perel Cc: Kris Kennaway , Chris Costello , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Perel on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 08:56:53PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Perel writes: > > The fact that the C and perl code are not equivalent for one thing. If you > are going to print the Content-Type header yourself in one, do the same > thing in the other. It's skewed. I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact that it's not even worth calling it a bench: - inconsistent setup - no tuning description - no optimization description - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since this one will obviously stay in memory) etc... It's just not a benchmark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1: 5:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4C014E66 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:05:08 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Phil Regnauld" , "Alex Perel" Cc: Subject: RE: Cheesy benchmarks Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:05:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bec84f$6db395d0$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <19990707101034.41857@ns.int.ftf.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact > that it's not even worth calling it a bench: > > - inconsistent setup > - no tuning description > - no optimization description > - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since > this one will obviously stay in memory) > > etc... > > It's just not a benchmark. What it shows is that Linux and FreeBSD are roughly comparable in their ability to serve simple web pages and CGIs, at least with loopback networking and in their approximately default configurations. It further shows that some methods of generating web pages seem much faster than others. That's about it. Is anyone making any other claims for it? DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1: 5:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E1E15041 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id KAA17841; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:05:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA02650; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:18:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990707101823.28002@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:18:23 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: James Howard Cc: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) References: <19990706231456.A13550@demos.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from James Howard on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 08:50:46PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Howard writes: > On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote: > > > Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;) > > Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English? Butch ? -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1:14:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD0715003 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B023706D; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 04:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA37648; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:13:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:13:27 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: David Schwartz Cc: Phil Regnauld , Alex Perel , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks Message-ID: <19990707031327.A37489@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990707101034.41857@ns.int.ftf.net> <000101bec84f$6db395d0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <000101bec84f$6db395d0$021d85d1@youwant.to>; from David Schwartz on Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 01:05:08AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 7, 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > It's just not a benchmark. > > What it shows is that Linux and FreeBSD are roughly comparable in their > ability to serve simple web pages and CGIs, at least with loopback > networking and in their approximately default configurations. It further > shows that some methods of generating web pages seem much faster than > others. But what real good is that other than to get publicity that you did a benchmark? I'm sure I can get better performance through lo0 than I would through tun0, but what's the point? -- Chris Costello I am still waiting for the advent of the computer science groupie. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 1:30:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F522150A4 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:30:10 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: Cc: "Phil Regnauld" , "Alex Perel" , Subject: RE: Cheesy benchmarks Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:30:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bec852$ecd0e860$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <19990707031327.A37489@holly.dyndns.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > But what real good is that other than to get publicity that you did a > benchmark? I'm sure I can get better performance through lo0 than I would > through tun0, but what's the point? > Again, it all depends on what claims are being made. If the claim is just 'different things work differently, so you should always check" then hey, fine. Do a benchmark if you feel like it. I once had a fun time comparing how fast Linux could pump data through a loopback TCP connection to how fast our $100,000+ SGI system could. Linux beat it by a factor of 10. Did it measure anything useful? No. Did it annoy the SGI people? Yes. :) DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 3:48:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from plab.ku.dk (plab.ku.dk [130.225.105.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5564A14F62 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tobez@plab.ku.dk) Received: from lion.plab.ku.dk (lion.plab.ku.dk [130.225.105.49]) by plab.ku.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06590; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:48:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tobez@localhost) by lion.plab.ku.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18159; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:46:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tobez) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:46:42 +0200 From: Anton Berezin To: James Howard Cc: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pigs.... In.... Spaaaaaace.... (was Re: how to start to be a hacker?) Message-ID: <19990707124642.A18112@lion.plab.ku.dk> References: <19990706231456.A13550@demos.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from James Howard on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 08:50:46PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 08:50:46PM -0400, James Howard wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Mikhail A. Sokolov wrote: > > > Belka and Strelka. Laika is the dogs model ;) > > Do any of these translate into anything interesting in English? Belka means ``a squirrel'', and Strelka means ``an arrow''. -- Anton Berezin The Protein Laboratory, University of Copenhagen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 6:12:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shattered.disturbed.net (shattered.disturbed.net [205.236.147.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C981114D79; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from veers@disturbed.net) Received: from shattered.disturbed.net ([205.236.147.18]:27661 "EHLO shattered.disturbed.net") by disturbed.net with ESMTP id ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:12:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:12:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Perel To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Kris Kennaway , Chris Costello , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cheesy benchmarks In-Reply-To: <19990707101034.41857@ns.int.ftf.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Phil Regnauld wrote: > I think it's not so much that the results are skewed than the fact > that it's not even worth calling it a bench: > > - inconsistent setup > - no tuning description > - no optimization description > - no filesystem layout descriptions (it doesn't really matter, since > this one will obviously stay in memory) > > etc... > > It's just not a benchmark. It's a wonderful display of incompetence and lack of thought, that's what it is. Methinks it was done haphazardly, and for what purpose? Anyone even remotely educated will look at this and laugh. :) Alex G. Perel -=- AP5081 veers@disturbed.net -=- veers@samurai.com Disturbed Networks - Powered exclusively by FreeBSD == The Power to Serve -=- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 7:24:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA7114C99 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (iras-1-90.ucdavis.edu [169.237.16.90]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21943; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA33857; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:24:45 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:24:42 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Pat Lynch Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded? Message-ID: <19990707072442.H31288@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990705230109.A1039@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Tue, Jul 06, 1999 at 04:40:25PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Wouldn;t that be nice =) Quite! > That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to. I emailed McKusick directly and he said: I am glad you liked it. It feels like I am dwelling on the good old days a bit too much when I give that talk, so it is always encouraging to have folks say they like it. I am not aware of its being recorded. Most of it does appear in my chapter in the recently published O'Reilly book `Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution' ISBN 1-56592-582-3. ~Kirk -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 7:42:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D65814C99 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:42:21 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id N96YD3C1; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:43:12 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 111suB-000Jez-00; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:42:35 +0100 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:42:35 +0100 To: David O'Brien Cc: Pat Lynch , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: McKusick USENIX BSD BoF talk recorded? Message-Id: <19990707154234.B75054@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <19990705230109.A1039@dragon.nuxi.com> <19990707072442.H31288@dragon.nuxi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <19990707072442.H31288@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 07:24:42AM -0700 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 07:24:42AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > Wouldn;t that be nice =) > > Quite! > > > That was one of the coolest BoF's I've ever been to. > > I emailed McKusick directly and he said: > > I am glad you liked it. It feels like I am dwelling on the good old > days a bit too much when I give that talk, so it is always > encouraging to have folks say they like it. I am not aware of its > being recorded. Most of it does appear in my chapter in the recently > published O'Reilly book `Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source > Revolution' ISBN 1-56592-582-3. Aha. You mean: (TOC at ) -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 10: 3: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from matadore.montereyhigh.com (unknown [205.155.37.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097F314F37 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Received: from localhost (atrus@localhost) by matadore.montereyhigh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20163 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:28:45 GMT (envelope-from atrus@matadore.montereyhigh.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:28:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Yann Ramin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: IA64 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This probaly should go to FreeBSD-questions, but here we go anyway: Will FreeBSD offer any support for the new upcoming IA-64 architecture (Merced) from Intel? From what I hear, Linux already is working on their port. It would be a shame that Linux comes up with a kernel for a server-class CPU and we are left in the dust with our server-class OS that runs on cheap processors. Yann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 10:19: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9CA914CDE for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 39518 invoked from network); 7 Jul 1999 17:18:59 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 1999 17:18:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:18:59 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Yann Ramin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Yann Ramin wrote: > > This probaly should go to FreeBSD-questions, but here we go anyway: > > Will FreeBSD offer any support for the new upcoming IA-64 architecture > (Merced) from Intel? From what I hear, Linux already is working on their > port. It would be a shame that Linux comes up with a kernel for a > server-class CPU and we are left in the dust with our server-class OS that > runs on cheap processors. The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since, it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port. It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 19: 4: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3979214BEE for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07937; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:03:51 -0600 To: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since, >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port. It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time anyone can lay hands on a real processor. Work SHOULD be in progress NOW. Otherwise, Linux will indeed be there first. >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly. Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 20: 2:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EAF014BCD for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 44063 invoked from network); 8 Jul 1999 03:02:52 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 1999 03:02:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:02:52 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Brett Glass Cc: Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > > >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include > >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since, > >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port. > > It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information > from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time > anyone can lay hands on a real processor. Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more. > Work SHOULD be in progress NOW. Otherwise, Linux will indeed > be there first. Linux might get there first anyways. They do have more people doing coding. Of course, if the compilers aren't there when the silicon ships it won't matter. > > >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly. > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. Intel also hasn't released a processor that was as far ahead of the compiler development. It won't be clear that what Intel can deliver until they ship something. There are lots of cool stuff in IA64, but if Intel can't deliver mostly bug-free chips, for less than a couple times what the equivalent Alpha or PA-RISC costs. This is especially true if the the compilers aren't very good at introduction. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 20: 5:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA72151BE for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01553; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:05:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Brett Glass Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. s/that flopped// -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 22:37:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from avarice.riverstyx.net (hq-port-97.harbour-dhcp-pool.infinetgroup.com [207.23.37.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90EF14DFC for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from avarice (unknown@avarice [207.23.37.97]) by avarice.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14436; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:35:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tani Hosokawa To: David Scheidt Cc: Brett Glass , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > > >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include > > >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since, > > >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port. > > > > It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information > > from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time > > anyone can lay hands on a real processor. > > Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course > Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to > the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more. Not to sound rude or anything, but don't you think permanently withholding development information for their processor would be pretty damn stupid? --- tani hosokawa river styx internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23: 5:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A0E14DFC for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id IAA05941; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:05:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA05354; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:18:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:18:44 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Brett Glass Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 References: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 08:03:51PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years. -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581E214DFC for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA12560; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:37:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA06311; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:37:10 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:37:10 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Phil Regnauld Cc: Brett Glass , David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 Message-ID: <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net>; from Phil Regnauld on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 08:18:44AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 8 July 1999 at 8:18:44 +0200, Phil Regnauld wrote: > Brett Glass writes: >> >> Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years. Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23:12:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ftf.dk (mail.ftf.net [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AE615594 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from regnauld@ftf.net) Received: from ns.int.ftf.net (fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged)) by mail.ftf.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/gw-ftf-1.2) with ESMTP id IAA06158; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:12:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ftf.dk: Host fw2.ftf.dk [192.168.1.2] (may be forged) claimed to be ns.int.ftf.net Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by ns.int.ftf.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA05411; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:25:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990708082541.37646@ns.int.ftf.net> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:25:41 +0200 From: Phil Regnauld To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brett Glass , David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IA64 References: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 03:37:10PM +0930 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386 Organization: FTFnet Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > > > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor in 25 years. > > Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor? I knew it! 25 wasn't enough :-) -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23:35:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [208.139.222.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F76B1526F for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA14216; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:35:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id BAA00781; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:35:07 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id BAA29674; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:35:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:35:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199907080635.BAA29674@free.pcs> To: unknown@riverstyx.net, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > >> > >The documentation HP and Intel released last month didn't include >> > >documentation about supervisor mode operation. Unless they have since, >> > >it would be difficult to do any real work at a kernel port. >> > >> > It's relatively easy for serious developers to get the information >> > from Intel -- under NDA at first, and for publication by the time >> > anyone can lay hands on a real processor. >> >> Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course >> Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to >> the general public. I haven't looked into it, so I can't say anything more. > >Not to sound rude or anything, but don't you think permanently withholding >development information for their processor would be pretty damn stupid? ``Appendix H''. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 7 23:39: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5751526F for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA26777; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:40:55 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA17782; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:40:54 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:40:54 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Brett Glass Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:18 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > > >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly. > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great success). > > --Brett > > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0: 0: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D4A154EF for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10051; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990708005732.0414c5b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 00:59:25 -0600 To: David Scheidt From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:02 PM 7/7/99 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: >Signing an NDA to work on source availabe system is silly, unless of course >Intel will let you out of it when the make documentation available to >the general public. Which they will. That's their deal with Red Hat. > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. >Intel also hasn't released a processor that was as far ahead of the >compiler development. It won't be clear that what Intel can deliver >until they ship something. There are lots of cool stuff in IA64, but >if Intel can't deliver mostly bug-free chips, for less than a couple >times what the equivalent Alpha or PA-RISC costs. This is especially >true if the the compilers aren't very good at introduction. The technology for such compilers is well-known. Cygnus already has a prototype. (Alas, GCC is foreclosing competition in this market, so it may be what many of us are stuck with.) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8C215273 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10109; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990708010511.04150de0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:06:37 -0600 To: Nadav Eiron From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990707200123.00b36480@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:40 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: >Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great >success). The i860 was the first of a series of embedded (not high-end) processors. It was quickly superceded by the i960, which was (and still is) successful. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0: 7:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8E915273 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10106; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990708010021.041462e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:04:35 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , Phil Regnauld From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:37 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor? At the time, it was. It was a darned sight better than the 8008. But that was longer ago. I was talking about the iAPX 432. The architecture of the iAPX 432 was truly inspired. But the chips were too expensive to make at the time, no one understood how good the basic architecture was, and there was no bus fast enough to allow the chips to shine. Intel has never had a flop like that since. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0:13:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B1C1516B for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA29720; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:15:46 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA19911; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:15:44 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:15:44 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Brett Glass Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990708010511.04150de0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:40 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > >Ignoring the i860 (not really high-end, but certainly not a great > >success). > > The i860 was the first of a series of embedded (not high-end) processors. > It was quickly superceded by the i960, which was(and still is) successful. The fact the only remaining relative of the i860 is the i960 (and they are not close relatives, BTW) is exactly why I say it wasn't successful. The i860 was _not_ an embedded design. It was a general purpose RISC CPU that Intel never managed to sell in quatities, mainly for lack of software support, and because they couldn't move fast enough to keep up with competition (mostly Sparc). We still have around here a parallel machine based on some 128 or so such processors... Intel was _forced_ to concentrate on the i960, simply because it couldn't make any money selling the i860. > > --Brett > > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 0:26:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685514C01 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA12951; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:56:45 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA06557; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:56:44 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:56:44 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Phil Regnauld , David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Intel's flops (was: IA64) Message-ID: <19990708165644.G6035@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990708010021.041462e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990708010021.041462e0@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 01:04:35AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 8 July 1999 at 1:04:35 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:37 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Are you implying that the 8080 was a high-end processor? > > At the time, it was. It was a darned sight better than the > 8008. But that was longer ago. That was 25 years ago. And the 8080 was a pretty weak processor, even for the day. It was just the one of the high-end microprocessors, not a high-end processor, which still implied hundreds of chips. > I was talking about the iAPX 432. Ah, that was some time later. > The architecture of the iAPX 432 was truly inspired. But the chips > were too expensive to make at the time, no one understood how good > the basic architecture was, and there was no bus fast enough to > allow the chips to shine. My recollection was that the 432 was just plain too slow. The instruction set was not conducive to performance. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 4: 5:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24A414D1C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id EAA38533; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:05:48 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: July BAFUG (San Francisco) meeting Message-ID: <19990708040548.A38395@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- San Francisco BAFUG -- The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, July 8th. This months meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office in Foster City. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on July 24th at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Oakland Convention Center ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office which is at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City There is plenty parking. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: WWW directions: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=260+Marsh+Drive&csz=94404&Get+Map=Get+Map By Muni: Unknown By BART: Unknown By Car: From San Jose/SJC Take Hwy 101 to Hwy 92 East, then exit at Foster City Blvd. Turn left at light onto Metro Center Blvd. Turn left (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five blocks until the road ends at a T intersection into Third Ave. Turn left onto Third Ave. Go to firstlight, then turn left onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. From San Francisco/SFO Take Hwy 101 south to San Mateo, approx. 10 miles south of SFO. Exit at Third Ave., loop under overpass and around to travel East on Third Ave. Follow for a couple of miles. Turn right onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. From Oakland/East Bay Take Hwy 92, the San Mateo Bridge, Westbound. Take the first exit, Foster City Blvd. Follow exit around to your right. Turn left (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five blocks until the road ends at a T intersection into Third Ave. Turn left onto Third Ave. Go to first light, then turn left onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.whistle.com http://www.bafug.org Contact: Please contact either Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before July 8th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 4:23:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF4114E5A for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id EAA38650; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:23:39 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: BAFUG.org upgrade Message-ID: <19990708042339.C38395@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org bafug.org, the machine, will be going down this weekend for an upgrade. The outage is expected to last 3 to 4 hours. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 5:25:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out.visi.com (tele.visi.com [209.98.98.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E5614DCA for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 05:25:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mestery@visi.com) Received: from isis.visi.com (isis.visi.com [209.98.98.8]) by mail-out.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862601F83C; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by isis.visi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28033; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: isis.visi.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0500 (CDT) From: To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Nathan Ahlstrom Subject: FreeBSD users in Minneapolis area Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nathan Ahlstrom and myself are wondering how many FreeBSD users there are in the Minneapolis, MN, area. We are thinking of getting together informally in the coming weeks for dinner, and if there is enough interest, maybe forming a users group here. Reply to myself and Nathan (nrahlstr@winternet.com) if you are interested, and we'll post back to this list when we will be meeting for dinner. Thanks! -- Kyle Mestery | StorageTek's Storage Networking Group mestery@visi.com | http://www.freebsd.org/ mestery@netwinder.org | http://www.netwinder.org/ Protect your right to privacy: www.freecrypto.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 6:26: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE7915247 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 06:26:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01937; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990708071909.03f9cda0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 07:24:52 -0600 To: Nadav Eiron From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990708010511.04150de0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:15 AM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: >The fact the only remaining relative of the i860 is the i960 (and they are >not close relatives, BTW) is exactly why I say it wasn't successful. The >i860 was _not_ an embedded design. Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available. I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released which emphasized this. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 6:36: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA66214BF5 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02020; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990708073150.03f9d7d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 07:35:16 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel's flops (was: IA64) Cc: Phil Regnauld , David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990708165644.G6035@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.2.0.56.19990708010021.041462e0@localhost> <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708081844.17503@ns.int.ftf.net> <19990708153710.B6035@freebie.lemis.com> <4.2.0.56.19990708010021.041462e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:56 PM 7/8/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >My recollection was that the 432 was just plain too slow. The >instruction set was not conducive to performance. Actually, the instruction set was quite good. It was a bit stream, and sub-instructions that did things like add indexing or indirection could be added by tagging on a few bits. Much more efficient, in terms of bus bandwidth, than RISC. Trouble was, the CPU didn't fit on a single chip, and the chips that comprised it had very large die areas. Limitations in the logic of the time made the interface between the chips slower than it should have been, and there was no way to speed things up via pipelining or FIFOs; RAM was too dear. Today, that architecture could be built right. Then, it was too far ahead of its time. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 7:50:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DAD614CED for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA09280; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:52:46 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA23286; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:52:43 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:52:43 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Brett Glass Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990708071909.03f9cda0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell > it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on > any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used > one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they > actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would > cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available. > > I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released > which emphasized this. There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology): http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering. i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance: http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/ The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really makes little sense). Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching (just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860 with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it was unsuccessful even in that niche. Besides, did you ever program for the i860? It's architecture is not that similar to that of the i960. Actually, it's far from being similar. Anyway, I can take a look at the Intel i860 Microprocessor Architecture Reference next week, when I can get to the library. I hope that's authority enough for us to settle this little dispute, if you are not yet convinced... :-) After all, it's kind of sad. The i860 had its merits (though I admit it was a bit weird to program). > > --Brett > > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 8:27:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5CE15493 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03054; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990708092030.0466ca00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:27:10 -0600 To: Nadav Eiron From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: David Scheidt , Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.56.19990708071909.03f9cda0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: >On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > > > > Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell > > it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on > > any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used > > one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they > > actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would > > cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available. > > > > I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released > > which emphasized this. > >There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long >ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed >early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from >this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology): > >http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm > >The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the >i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first >general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering. > Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is, they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so. At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose. This is illegal behavior, since it is discriminatory and an attempt to manipulate markets. But it was done nonetheless. >i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance: >http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/ > >The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really >makes little sense). You're forgetting history. At this time, the TMS340 intelligent graphics controller was threatening to take over this market. (There were many very good one-card X servers based on that chip.) The i860 was part of Intel's response. >Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to >massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching >(just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by >Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860 >with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts >and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a >sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it >was unsuccessful even in that niche. The i860 was used in a number of demonstration machines that did floating point multiprocessing, because its floating point capabilities exceeded what could be done on any x86 processor available at the time. But this wasn't considered by Intel to be a "general-purpose" market, since these machines were produced in small volumes and were ludicrously expensive. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 10:11:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E5214EF6 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-73-7.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.73.7]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18377; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA03921; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:14:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199907081714.NAA03921@bellsouth.net> To: Brett Glass Cc: Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: IA64 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:02:52 CDT." Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:14:47 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >It is also far from obvious that IA64 will fly. > > Intel hasn't had a high-end processor that flopped in 17 years. Yikes! The iAPX432 was seventeen years ago? :-) It remains to be seen whether the Merced will be accepted in the marketplace, even if Intel gets it out the door on time. I'm betting against them this time. -- Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 10:30:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3001D154D4 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04126; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990708112350.0462a810@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:30:07 -0600 To: W Gerald Hicks From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: Yann Ramin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net In-Reply-To: <199907081714.NAA03921@bellsouth.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:14 PM 7/8/99 -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: >Yikes! The iAPX432 was seventeen years ago? :-) Yep. Funny how time flies when you're futzing around with software. ;-) >It remains to be seen whether the Merced will be accepted in the >marketplace, even if Intel gets it out the door on time. > >I'm betting against them this time. I'm not. There's too much at stake. AMD is catching up with them, and VIA is threatening their strategy of closing markets by taking over the x86 motherboard and chipset markets. Intel sees Merced as its only chance to outrun the competition. The iAPX 432 was done as a blue-sky project at a time when the company was unexpectedly flush with money. They could afford to dream and pour money into speculative R&D. But this situation is different. Never underestimate Intel when they're truly desperate. Also, the presence of free UNIX will make a difference this time around. It once was difficult to find OS support for alternative processors. Now, with Linux, NetBSD, and OpenBSD, it isn't. In any event, to get back on topic, we should have folks under NDA who enjoy the same terms as the Linux vendors -- who are VERY hot for this processor. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 11:31:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from unix1.digital-web.net (unix1.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006D0152F9 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by unix1.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA80837 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@unix1.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Jordan and Guns Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year. http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that thing :-) Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 12: 4:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6FC414F67 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:04:07 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "The Hermit Hacker" , "Pierre Beyssac" Cc: Subject: RE: Known MMAP() race conditions ... ? Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:04:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001701bec974$a7711d30$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In general, an operating system should be used for what it does best. If FreeBSD doesn't run INN very well, use Solaris or Linux. And don't upgrade production servers without making sure the new operating system version can handle the job well. At WebMaster, we have NT servers, Linux servers, FreeBSD servers, Sparc servers, and an Irix server. We use each machine for what it does best. > ah, okay, so you are saying that FreeBSD shouldn't be demonstrated using > software that taxes/tweaks bugs in it? Yes, that's how demonstrations work. You don't demonstrate the things that don't work. > Boy, does that sound like a quick > road to problems... Management: but, when you sold us on this operating > system, it was perfectly stable. Me: ya, well, I picked and choose the > software I ran for the demo, sorry... Just be honest. "FreeBSD does a lot of things very well, let's use it for the things it does well." Don't be an OS bigot. I'm sorry, no operating system is best for everything. > personal, sounds like something Microsoft would do, not something that > *I'd* want to base a decision on. Actually, Microsoft would probably tell you NT is best for everything and there's no reason to ever consider any other operating system. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 13: 9:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gdead.adm.ispchannel.net (gdead.adm.ispchannel.net [208.138.36.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91962154E7 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@gdead.adm.ispchannel.net) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by gdead.adm.ispchannel.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA05769; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:09:00 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns Message-ID: <19990708130900.A5743@gdead.adm.ispchannel.net> Reply-To: jgrosch@ispchannel.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Joseph Scott on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400, Joseph Scott wrote: > > I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are > some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year. > > http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html > > Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that > thing :-) This picture shows what happens when you suggest to Jordan that he should rewrite sysinstall ;-) Josef -- Josef Grosch | FreeBSD 3.2 | Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group jgrosch@ispchannel.com | www.freebsd.org | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 14:28:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C02814E4C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13232; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:33:51 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Schwartz Cc: The Hermit Hacker , Pierre Beyssac , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Known MMAP() race conditions ... ? In-Reply-To: <001701bec974$a7711d30$021d85d1@youwant.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > In general, an operating system should be used for what it does best. If > FreeBSD doesn't run INN very well, use Solaris or Linux. And don't upgrade > production servers without making sure the new operating system version can > handle the job well. > > At WebMaster, we have NT servers, Linux servers, FreeBSD servers, Sparc > servers, and an Irix server. We use each machine for what it does best. > > > ah, okay, so you are saying that FreeBSD shouldn't be demonstrated using > > software that taxes/tweaks bugs in it? I know running -current is somewhat of a gamble, but since you gus think the bug is fixed in it, why not try a snapshot and see how it stands up against the INN code? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 14:50:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from melete.ch.intel.com (melete.ch.intel.com [143.182.246.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E361A1511F for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com) Received: from sedona.intel.com (sedona.ch.intel.com [143.182.218.21]) by melete.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.6 1998/11/24 22:10:56 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id OAA06222; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hip186.ch.intel.com (hip186.ch.intel.com [143.182.225.68]) by sedona.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: sendmail.cf,v 1.8 1999/04/16 15:25:49 steved Exp steved $) with ESMTP id OAA03822; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:50:05 -0700 (MST) X-Envelope-From: jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com Received: (from jreynold@localhost) by hip186.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) id RAA04374; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:50:04 -0400 (EDT) From: John Reynolds~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14213.7435.257525.833900@hip186.ch.intel.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:50:03 -0700 (MST) To: scrappy@hub.org Subject: HCL ... X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under Emacs 19.34.1 X-Euphoria: http://www.webnl.com/senff/leppard_start.html Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] > One of the guys I work with is asking me about a Hardware > Compatibility List for FreeBSD, and, sadly, other then the sparse lists in > the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/hw.html), I know of none. > > He pointed me to the following URL of what Linux/RedHat has > available, and am wondering if we have somethign similar floating around > out there: > > http://www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld.html > This is one of the things I've been hoping to find time to start. I'm hoping that Jordan (or whoever) can host it under the FreeBSD, Inc. web area. Unfortunately I've not had the time to dedicate to the effort. I recently put together a PC that would dual-boot win98 (only when "needed") and FreeBSD. I wanted to have lots of "spiffy" hardware like a CD-RW and scanner, cool sound card, etc. It took me a LOOOOOOOONG time to do the research in our mailing lists, etc. to make sure that what I wanted to buy would be supported under 3.1 and then 3.2. I longed for an HCL .... My original idea was to send something out to -questions and maybe more lists that was basically a big questionaire of what people currently run, what they've tried that didn't run or work, if they had to patch the kernel to get something work, what did they do, etc. Only your imagination would limit how you could organize and search the information. But, I think as more people migrate from Linux to FreeBSD, they're gonna want to know how to setup XYZ piece of hardware--and equivalently as people come from other worlds or build up new PCs, or buy "canned" PCs, they're going to want to know what works and what doesn't work. I really do hope I'll have time in the future to try and start this effort! Any ideas? -Jr -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | John Reynolds CEG, CCE, Next Generation Flows, HLA | | Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 868-6512 | | jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 15:25:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AEB14F7E for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-144.s17.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.144]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06505; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907082225.SAA06505@smtp3.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:25:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: The Splash Screens are Back! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm happy to report that the splash screen gallery is available again at http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/splash/ I've updated the help at the beginnign to include setting up of PCX splash screens in 3.2 as well as using /boot/loader.conf in 3.2 instead of /boor/loader.rc. Feel free to send any comments, questions, and (especially) new splash screens to me. Enjoy! --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 15:49: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cr575310-a.shprd1.on.wave.home.com (cr575310-a.shprd1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.185.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 204C21515C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dark@idiotswitch.org) Received: (qmail 55766 invoked from network); 8 Jul 1999 18:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO a11.idiotswitch.org) (10.0.0.11) by 10.0.0.1 with SMTP; 8 Jul 1999 18:47:51 -0000 From: Rod Taylor To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HCL ... Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:50:34 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <14213.7435.257525.833900@hip186.ch.intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99070818513000.04596@a11.idiotswitch.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd be interested in helping with this. However, I don't know SHTML (yet). On Thu, 08 Jul 1999, John Reynolds~ wrote: > [ moved to -chat ] > > > One of the guys I work with is asking me about a Hardware > > Compatibility List for FreeBSD, and, sadly, other then the sparse lists in > > the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/hw.html), I know of none. > > > > He pointed me to the following URL of what Linux/RedHat has > > available, and am wondering if we have somethign similar floating around > > out there: > > > > http://www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld.html > > > > This is one of the things I've been hoping to find time to start. I'm hoping > that Jordan (or whoever) can host it under the FreeBSD, Inc. web > area. Unfortunately I've not had the time to dedicate to the effort. > > I recently put together a PC that would dual-boot win98 (only when "needed") > and FreeBSD. I wanted to have lots of "spiffy" hardware like a CD-RW and > scanner, cool sound card, etc. It took me a LOOOOOOOONG time to do the > research in our mailing lists, etc. to make sure that what I wanted to buy > would be supported under 3.1 and then 3.2. I longed for an HCL .... > > My original idea was to send something out to -questions and maybe more > lists that was basically a big questionaire of what people currently run, > what they've tried that didn't run or work, if they had to patch the kernel > to get something work, what did they do, etc. Only your imagination would > limit how you could organize and search the information. > > But, I think as more people migrate from Linux to FreeBSD, they're gonna > want to know how to setup XYZ piece of hardware--and equivalently as people > come from other worlds or build up new PCs, or buy "canned" PCs, they're > going to want to know what works and what doesn't work. > > I really do hope I'll have time in the future to try and start this > effort! > > Any ideas? > > -Jr > > -- > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > | John Reynolds CEG, CCE, Next Generation Flows, HLA | > | Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 868-6512 | > | jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ | > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only seize it with both hands and make the most of it. -Al Capone -- Rod Taylor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 16:12:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7127515568 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA05528; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:45:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:45:04 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns Message-ID: <19990708224504.A5355@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Joseph Scott on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 02:27:26PM -0400, Joseph Scott wrote: > > I don't know if anyone had pointed this out before, but there are > some pics from one of the Geeks with Guns back in March this year. > > http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html Any chance of anything like this happening at the FreeBSD Con? N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 16:12:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0EF15553 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07181; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990708170916.045ff770@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:12:25 -0600 To: jgrosch@ispchannel.com, Joseph Scott From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Jordan and Guns Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990708130900.A5743@gdead.adm.ispchannel.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:09 PM 7/8/99 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: >> http://marc.merlins.org/linux/lwce_winter99/Day4/GeeksWithGuns.html > > > > Jordan is in the 5th pic down and looks pretty serious with that > > thing :-) > >This picture shows what happens when you suggest to Jordan that he should >rewrite sysinstall ;-) You killed Deirdre! You b*****d! ;-) Actually, I kinda like the last picture. Looks like it was taken just after Jordan fired and before ESR had a chance to react. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 17:26:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pluto.ipass.net (pluto.ipass.net [198.79.53.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DAF1559C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:26:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ipass.net) Received: from stealth.ipass.net. (ppp-2-162.dialup.rdu.ipass.net [209.170.133.162]) by pluto.ipass.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15476; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rhh@localhost) by stealth.ipass.net. (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA07125; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:31:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rhh) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:31:33 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: John Baldwin Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Splash Screens are Back! Message-ID: <19990708193133.A6924@ipass.net> References: <199907082225.SAA06505@smtp3.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199907082225.SAA06505@smtp3.erols.com>; from John Baldwin on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 06:25:18PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Baldwin: |I'm happy to report that the splash screen gallery is available again at |http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/splash/ I've updated the help at the |beginnign to include setting up of PCX splash screens in 3.2 as well as using |/boot/loader.conf in 3.2 instead of /boor/loader.rc. Feel free to send any |comments, questions, and (especially) new splash screens to me. Enjoy! Thanks. Very nice! I see what you mean DES. Those Saturn pics and Sam's bsd_daemon are real classy. Time to reboot and check 'em all out full-screen :-) Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 19: 0:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73961559D for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA43179; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:00:43 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: chat@bafug.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: {BAFUG-C} Re: {BAFUG-A} July BAFUG (San Francisco) meeting Message-ID: <19990708190043.A43087@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <19990708041335.B38395@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 05:08:26PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 05:08:26PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > Anyone coming? I know this is last minute but does anyone plan on showing up? Josef > > > > On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > > > Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group > > -- San Francisco BAFUG -- > > > > > > The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will > > be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, July 8th. This months meeting > > will be held at Whistle's corp. office in Foster City. The meeting will > > start at 7:30 pm. [ DELETED ] > > Location: > > This months meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office which is > > at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City There is plenty parking. [ DELETED ] > > By Car: > > From San Jose/SJC > > Take Hwy 101 to Hwy 92 East, then exit at Foster City > > Blvd. Turn left at light onto Metro Center Blvd. Turn left > > (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five blocks > > until the road ends at a T intersection into Third Ave. Turn > > left onto Third Ave. Go to firstlight, then turn left onto > > Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. > > > > From San Francisco/SFO > > Take Hwy 101 south to San Mateo, approx. 10 miles south of > > SFO. Exit at Third Ave., loop under overpass and around to > > travel East on Third Ave. Follow for a couple of miles. Turn > > right onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. > > > > From Oakland/East Bay > > Take Hwy 92, the San Mateo Bridge, Westbound. Take the first > > exit, Foster City Blvd. Follow exit around to your right. Turn > > left (Northeast) onto Foster City Blvd. Go approximately five > > blocks until the road ends at a T intersection into Third > > Ave. Turn left onto Third Ave. Go to first light, then turn > > left onto Marsh Dr. Take immediate left into parking lot. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 8 19:11:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAA014E67 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA02755; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:41:21 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA09423; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:41:14 +0930 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:41:14 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Peter Wemm Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New kid on the block In-Reply-To: <19990708225326.22B3078@overcee.netplex.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > You can kinda do this already, or at least you could You could use SIMOS > > > to emulate Alpha hardware and you could run the FreeBSD/Alpha -current and > > > get some real benefit from the diversity. :-) SIMOS btw, is an Alpha and > > > MIPS hardware emulator/simulator. It's largely responsible for the Alpha > > > port in the first place, hosted on x86. I don't know if SIMOS still runs > > > FreeBSD/Alpha -current though. > > > > Actually, SimOS/alpha can't be hosted on anything except another alpha. I > > bootstrapped the kernel using Linux/alpha (NetBSD didn't run on my 433au > > at the time). > > Damn, there's that 'Linux hosting FreeBSD' angle again... :-] Well, as I mentioned recently somewhere I was playing (with reasonable success) with running the Debian userland under FreeBSD emulation a while ago - does that count as the reverse? :-) Kris ----- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 2:46:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E763214E0A for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 02:46:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (crb@fermion.ChrisBowman.com [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA07069; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 04:46:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199907090946.EAA07069@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 05:46:10 -0400 To: Brett Glass From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990708092030.0466ca00@localhost> References: <4.2.0.56.19990708071909.03f9cda0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:27 AM 7/8/99 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > >>On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Brett Glass wrote: >> >> > >> > Not so. Intel sold it as an embedded design, and *actually refused* to sell >> > it to any manufacturer who wished to use it as a general purpose CPU on >> > any significant scale. Intel allowed MicroWay to build boards which used >> > one or more i860s in combination with an x86 in the same machine, but they >> > actively discouraged the development of any i860 products that would >> > cannibalize their precious x86 monopoly. The parts just wouldn't be available. >> > >> > I attended an Intel presentation at the time when the i860 was released >> > which emphasized this. >> >>There's little info on the i860 on the web (it was discontinued too long >>ago), and I don't have its architecture reference around (library closed >>early today for some reason) but, hey, see this quote from >>this URL (remember, it's Intel, from the overview of MMX technology): >> >>http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q31997/articles/art_2b.htm >> >>The definition of MMX technology evolved from earlier work in the >>i860? architecture [3]. The i860 architecture was the industry's first >>general purpose processor to provide support for graphics rendering. >> > >Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is, >they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT >as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so. >At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used >as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD >NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose. Um, Brett, I can't debate with you what you may have on handouts or heard at presentations. However, in an odd coincidence I was just throwing out some old Intel duplicates and marketing stuff I happen to have here, and what you present above is diametrically opposed to the impression I get from that material. The 1992 Intel Product Overview book (section 4) clearly tags that i960s as targeted for embedded systems, but makes no such mention for the i860s and in fact instead mentions engineering workstations, scientific computing, 3d workstations and multi-user systems. Further the Overview of the i860XP Supercomputing Microprocessor, and the Overview of the i860 64-Bit Microprocessor, Chapter 1 state: the i860 CPU ... is designed to bring supercomputing power to the desktop. And later: This high performance can be applied across a wide variety of compute intensive design implementations, from supercomputers, through technical workstation, to graphics subsystems and application accelerators for personal computer. Also: The Intel i860 CPUs are a family of supercomputing microprocessors designed to provide affordable supercomputing class power to a range of systems from PC's to workstations to massively parallel supercomputers. Further Intel published a document called the i860 Platform Reference Design Guide which was basically a reference workstation design containing "complete hardware theory of operation descriptions, schematics, PAL equations, timing and state diagrams and data sheets for the system's major components. I get the distinct impression that the i860s were targeted at high end engineering workstation type environment. It is not clear if this was to prevent cannibalization of the commodity x86 market or because these machines would presumably have prices that would have kept them out of the lower end. Clearly, however, Intel was marketing the i860s at general computing/workstations and the i960s at embedded design. >This is illegal behavior, since it is discriminatory and an attempt to >manipulate markets. But it was done nonetheless. > >>i860 - a general purpose processor. Let us check further, for instance: >>http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/ >> >>The same... (anyway, graphics rendering on an embedded controller really >>makes little sense). > >You're forgetting history. At this time, the TMS340 intelligent graphics >controller was threatening to take over this market. (There were many very >good one-card X servers based on that chip.) The i860 was part of Intel's >response. Ah the TMS340, I still have their data books here too. As I remember, general consensus at the time seemed to be that this chip was hot shit, and so I eagerly ordered my data book. I have to say upon reading it that I was not to impressed. >>Also, a search for i860 on Intel's site reveals some references to >>massively parallel machines based on the i860, used for number crunching >>(just like the one they have here in the department, which was not made by >>Intel, or Microway). The reason most of these machines combine the i860 >>with other CPUs is that the i860 is notoriously bad at handling interrupts >>and I/O, which meant that its main use was for number crunching - like a >>sophisticated DSP perhaps, with something else handling I/O. However, it >>was unsuccessful even in that niche. > >The i860 was used in a number of demonstration machines that did >floating point multiprocessing, because its floating point capabilities >exceeded what could be done on any x86 processor available at the time. >But this wasn't considered by Intel to be a "general-purpose" market, since >these machines were produced in small volumes and were ludicrously expensive. > >--Brett > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 6:20:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gate2.consol.de (gate2.consol.de [194.221.87.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBF514C87 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Michael.Elbel@consol.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: Michael.Elbel@consol.de (at relayer gate2.consol.de) Received: from msgsrv.bb.consol.de (root@msgsrv.bb.consol.de [10.250.0.100]) by gate2.consol.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19097; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:20:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fourier.int.consol.de (fourier.int.consol.de [10.0.1.17]) by msgsrv.bb.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08093; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:19:42 +0200 Received: (from me@localhost) by fourier.int.consol.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id PAA14454; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:19:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from me) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:19:41 +0200 From: Michael Elbel To: brett@lariat.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IA64 Message-ID: <19990709151940.A13563@consol.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In lists.freebsd.chat you write: >At 05:52 PM 7/8/99 +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: >Funny how Intel rewrites history to avoid antitrust problems. ;-) Fact is, >they wanted the i860 to be used on graphics coprocessor boards but NOT >as the system's main CPU. I may still have the handouts which said so. >At the presentation, I asked an Intel rep whether the i860 could be used >as a general purpose CPU for a workstation; he replied that Intel WOULD >NOT SELL the CPU to a company that wanted to use it for that purpose. Well, all I can say is that in a former life at a former company we were indeed building workstations with i860 processors and only those. Intel *themselves* supplied a SYSVR4 port to the i860 that we used as the base of our own version. Deficiencies in the processor design aside (context switches e.g. were horrendously expensive due to the awkward way you had to save the processor state), they ok for their time, at least on floating point. Porting a X server to the thing was also not much fun what with the difficulties we had mapping a frame buffer uncached. I don't know if they actually produced a somewhat bug free processor stepping before discontinuing them. I remember that we were pretty proud of outperforming almost everything else on mandelbrot calculations back in 1992 or so. This was before the HP snake and Alpha processors came along, of course. I believe that Gary Jennejohn still uses one of the beasts as an X terminal. So, yes, there may have been a Intel rep who claimed that the things should not be used as general purpose CPU. Fact is also that Intel indeed was selling them as such, even doing a UNIX port themselves. The left not knowing what the right is doing? Ask three people at a large company and get 5 different answers? Surely doesn't happen only at Intel. Michael -- \|/ -O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256 /|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 10:23:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3A915667 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11448; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:22:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:22:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: "Person, Roderick" Cc: "'Nate'" , gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu, chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeLinux (Debian/GNU BSD) In-Reply-To: <576A688A7DA7D011899B00805FEA1AFF6FDAE9@sych02.isdip.upmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat and out of -questions] On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Person, Roderick wrote: > This, IMHO, is a great idea!!! I have been playing with FreeBSD for > some months now. And the kernel Kicks Ass!!! It just 'feels' better > too. But the package installation and management is terrible. It took > me at least 3 weeks to figure it out. Note I've never used Debian (only ever RH Linux for a bit), but why is cd /usr/ports/some_port_dir/some_port make install clean hard to figure out? Did you read the handbook? Have you tried using pib? (Ports Index Browser - /usr/ports/sysutils/pib) That said, there is a new, still in development, package system in the works. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 9 10:29:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6741A14D0D for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: by gvr.gvr.org (Postfix, from userid 657) id 04B655AC7; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:29:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19990709192938.A1821@gvr.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:29:38 +0200 From: Guido van Rooij To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: pictures of 1999 Usenix Technical conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, At http://www.iae.nl/users/guido/gif/usenix99/ you'll find some pictures of the Usenix Technical conference in Monterey. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 10 21:48:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E319C1506F for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26333; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990710224604.047b5e60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:48:11 -0600 To: "Christopher R. Bowman" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IA64 Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907090946.EAA07069@quark.ChrisBowman.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19990708092030.0466ca00@localhost> <4.2.0.56.19990708071909.03f9cda0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:46 AM 7/9/99 -0400, Christopher R. Bowman wrote: >Um, Brett, I can't debate with you what you may have on handouts or heard at >presentations. However, in an odd coincidence I was just throwing out some old >Intel duplicates and marketing stuff I happen to have here, and what you >present above is diametrically opposed to the impression I get from that >material. The 1992 Intel Product Overview book (section 4) clearly tags that >i960s as targeted for embedded systems, but makes no such mention for the i860s >and in fact instead mentions engineering workstations, scientific computing, 3d >workstations and multi-user systems. In which the i860 would work as a COPROCESSOR. They kept on emphasizing that they wanted it to control, say, the screen or disk I/O. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message