From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 00:17:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:17:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacman.redwoodsoft.com (redwoodsoft.com [207.181.199.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA28749 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:17:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnelson@pacman.redwoodsoft.com) Received: (qmail 11994 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Jan 1999 08:17:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:17:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dru Nelson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG to throw my 2 cents in... The dependencies problem is a solvable problem... There are two wins. One win is the ability to get people who grew up with linux/solaris to get to work easily. The other win is the simple fact that it is so easy to go: /etc/r.c/init.d/{name your service} start|stop|status|restart All the start and stop scripts for the various services are in one directory. Dru Nelson Redwood City, California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 00:35:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00211 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:35:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00205 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:35:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA19263; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:33:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B407A3.FE86093D@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:34:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: Brandon Gillespie , Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <36B1739E.1A22A983@urc.ac.ru> <199901291406.JAA27108@spooky.rwwa.com> <19990129115122.A25989@cold.org> <36B2CD01.69CFEFA8@newsguy.com> <36B33C2B.CDB07CCB@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > > The problem with dependencies is that you need to build a graph, so > > you know how to shutdown a service, while correctly shuting down > > everything that depended on it (which the service is most likely to > > *not* know -- take, for instance, the networking stack). > > And wouldn't you know it, we already have a tool for managing > dependency graphs. ;^) > > How about a Makefile, with "startup" and "shutdown" targets, and > individual "start" and "stop" targets for each subsystem? The While the Makefile idea is interesting, let me just make clear that the problem lies in the fact that the startup dependency is in the opposite direction of the shutdown dependency. For instance, if resource B depends on A, resource D on B and C, and resource E on B, these are the dependencies: A.startup: A.shutdown: B.startup: A.startup B.shutdown: D.shutdown E.shutdown C.startup: C.shutdown: D.shutdown D.startup: B.startup C.startup D.shutdown: E.startup: B.startup E.shutdown: Now, you show me that being created out of environment variables, given that B does not have the slightest idea of what is depending on it (which may vary, given different levels (or states, which is, imho, the correct way)). > configuration settings would remain in rc.conf and rc.conf.local, > where they belong, and each "subsystem" startup moved to an > individual script. /etc/rc would bring the system up just far > enough for make to function, and then cd /etc; make startup. You > could start a particular subsystem, or shut it down, with i.e. > "make start.nfsserver" or "make stop.nfsserver". > > Good? Bad? Indifferent? Intriguing, to say the least... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 01:28:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03108 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id RAA02696; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:26:42 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199901310926.RAA02696@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters cc: witr@rwwa.com, dcs@newsguy.com, brandon@roguetrader.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:48:05 MST." <000342b3e1d2fb49_mailit@obie.softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:26:42 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Robert Withrow alleged: > > >Regarding using Make for startup: > > > >wes@softweyr.com said: > >:- Good? Bad? Indifferent? > > > >I'd say: more complicated than the job requires. We have a *simpler* > >tool for managing graphs: tsort(1). > > > >If you go back to the process I suggested, you need only tsort the > >dependencies and save it in /var/run. It is then available for use > >to stop selected components. > > OK, I took a few minutes to RTFM. Yes, I can see how tsort could be > brought to bear on this issue. Do you propose to put the dependencies > in the rc scripts, in some grepabble fashion? I suppose if you added > or changed something, you would need to re-run tsort before doing > another start or stop operation, right? > > This seems doable, and an improvement over what we have, and what > SYSV has. The advantage of make is that you could do a 'make -j12 boot' style thing to fire off job initialization in parallel and still maintain dependencies. Of course, this could be argued to be a disasvantage too. :-) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting "No coffee, No workee!" :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 02:32:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07829 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:32:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07824 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:32:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA28776; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:32:15 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B41674.2E66D8EC@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:38:12 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: some weird C References: <199901310747.RAA27181@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- > | > | I was expecting 9, not 10. > | since 4+5=9? > > x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. > > This is correct behaviour. Explain the 8 then... if x++ takes effect *after* +=, it should have been 9, right? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 02:56:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09742 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:56:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09736 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 02:56:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28754; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:35:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199901311035.UAA28754@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: some weird C In-Reply-To: <36B41674.2E66D8EC@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at "Jan 31, 99 05:38:12 pm" To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:35:55 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Daniel C. Sobral ]--------------------------------------------- | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: | > | > +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- | > | | > | I was expecting 9, not 10. | > | since 4+5=9? | > | > x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. | > | > This is correct behaviour. | | Explain the 8 then... if x++ takes effect *after* +=, it should have | been 9, right? No. the time at which a post increment operation takes place is undefined, but, before the next *expression* -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 03:01:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10827 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10822 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.80]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA661D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:01:28 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:10:08 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: ldconfig and libraries Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi people, I just want to verify a few things before I go off ranting about broken stuff in CURRENT. are libraries in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib tied to naming standards? for example, is this an accepted name for ldconfig: libgmodule-1.1.so.12.0 Also, should a library have special permissions? Every library found by ldconfig in the specified paths should be reported back with ldconfig -r, right? What would cause ldconfig to skip libraries? thanks to those who can answer parts or whole of my mail. If relevant configuration parts of this system are needed, feel free to ask... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 06:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04178 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mulligatwani.msrl.com (mulligatwani.msrl.com [206.246.79.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA04168 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shields@msrl.com) Received: (qmail 13134 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Jan 1999 14:17:49 -0000 From: shields@msrl.com (Michael Shields) Organization: Mad Science Research Labs Message-Id: <8790ejy1bi.fsf@mulligatwani.msrl.com> Mail-Copies-To: never To: Drew Baxter Cc: Jason Thorpe , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson), wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <4.1.19990130165432.03d5deb0@genesis.ispace.com> Date: 31 Jan 1999 14:17:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Drew Baxter's message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:58:42 -0500" Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <4.1.19990130165432.03d5deb0@genesis.ispace.com>, Drew Baxter wrote: > What's sick is Microsofts new Speaker system, it supports 'digital audio' > via USB. This is actually a good idea, since it moves the D/A converter outside the noisy PC case. > Thing is, not Win95 Compatible, let alone anything else. > Requires Win98, otherwise it's analog via standard input. Well, that part is not a good idea. -- Shields. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 06:41:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06143 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06138 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id PAA00436 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:41:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01446 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 05:21:10 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990131052109.A1053@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 05:21:09 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ISA limmitation of 16MB for DMA [wschlanger@usa.net: ] Reply-To: wschlanger@usa.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from Willow Schlanger ----- Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:48:57 -0800 From: Willow Schlanger Reply-To: wschlanger@usa.net To: Wolfram Schneider Subject: Re: Q Thanks. Would you happen to know where I can learn how FreeBSD gets around the ISA limmitation of 16MB for DMA? Is there a source file I can see that demonstrates this? Thanks in advance, Willow Schlanger Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > On 1999-01-24 03:49:02 -0800, Willow Schlanger wrote: > > Q: Hi. I'm a programmer and I'm interested in the kernel source code for > > FreeBSD. I can't seem to find it anywhere - I've tried different FTPs > > FreeBSD.org mentions, but I can never figure them out. I use DOS and > > Windows 95/98 -- do I need some special program to get the assembly > > language and C/++ sources? > > [cc: freebsd-questions] > > The FreeBSD kernel sources code is available at > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys > > or > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys > > > > > Can you help me? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Willow Schlanger > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 06:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles216.castles.com [208.214.165.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07346 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06506; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:52:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901311452.GAA06506@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: wschlanger@usa.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISA limmitation of 16MB for DMA [wschlanger@usa.net: ] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 05:21:09 +0100." <19990131052109.A1053@panke.de.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 06:52:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD uses the time-honoured technique of "bounce buffering" - it maintains a pool of buffers in ISA-addressable space, and allocates them as required to back pending ISA busmaster transactions. This is handled transparently by the bus-space DMA code, which adds several levels of indirection to the issue. You may find the older kernels (2.2.x) technique which involved explicit cooperation by the driver easier to understand. > ----- Forwarded message from Willow Schlanger ----- > > Thanks. Would you happen to know where I can learn how FreeBSD gets > around the ISA limmitation of 16MB for DMA? Is there a source file I can > see that demonstrates this? > > Thanks in advance, > Willow Schlanger > > Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > > > On 1999-01-24 03:49:02 -0800, Willow Schlanger wrote: > > > Q: Hi. I'm a programmer and I'm interested in the kernel source code for > > > FreeBSD. I can't seem to find it anywhere - I've tried different FTPs > > > FreeBSD.org mentions, but I can never figure them out. I use DOS and > > > Windows 95/98 -- do I need some special program to get the assembly > > > language and C/++ sources? > > > > [cc: freebsd-questions] > > > > The FreeBSD kernel sources code is available at > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys > > > > or > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys > > > > > > > > Can you help me? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Willow Schlanger > > > > -- > > Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 07:45:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11378 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11373 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06309; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:49:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199901311549.KAA06309@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dru Nelson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:17:31 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:49:45 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dnelson@redwoodsoft.com said: :- /etc/r.c/init.d/{name your service} start|stop|status|restart Which ignores the relationships issue. For example, restarting X may cause Y and Z to croak! What is needed is something like this: /etc/initsys start|stop|status|restart Where the initsys script takes into account the relationships. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 07:53:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12234 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12228 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id KAA82676; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:53:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990131104912.009a4c30@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:52:58 -0500 To: Cory Kempf , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990130165850.03d64530@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:26 AM 1/31/99 , Cory Kempf wrote: >Drew Baxter writes: > >> At 04:28 PM 1/30/99 , Jason Thorpe wrote: >> It's unfortunate FreeBSD does >> not have a PPC port (not even in the works I don't think), because I'd >> imagine it'd perform rather well. > >Not sure I can agree about the performance, however, Apple's MacOS X Server >(that name *REALLY* sucks... I see it and keep thinking of an X server), >their marketting department's new name for Rhapsody, is essentially 4.4 BSD >on top of a Mach microkernel. Well we could take a 'blast from the past' and talk about A/UX :-) >Apple is supposed to be working with the various BSD folk, and swapping some >code back and forth. > >I think they are currently taking orders on their web site. > >Tennon has MachTen, which is also a BSD port to PowerMac. If I remember right, Machten is a combination of Mach and BSD 4.4. I can't really say my experiences with it were too impressive. Considering I couldn't compile a simple copy of IRCII-2.8 without having to go in and hack the hell out of it. It's Tenon Intersystems if I remember right, www.tenon.com. I have not yet checked out PowerMachten, which could theoretically be better. Back in the day I was using Machten 2.3 on a Performa 476 (68LC040 based machine). The integration is there (just like running SoftPC on a Mac, the integration is decent as well there), but it failed to build a lot of stuff that any other BSD-based machine here would. So I moved away from it, in favor of FreeBSD, yet again. :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 08:00:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13070 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:00:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13060 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id KAA82684; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:58:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990131105502.038c3a80@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:58:25 -0500 To: shields@msrl.com (Michael Shields) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: Jason Thorpe , Terry Lambert , dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson), wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au In-Reply-To: <8790ejy1bi.fsf@mulligatwani.msrl.com> References: <4.1.19990130165432.03d5deb0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:17 AM 1/31/99 , Michael Shields wrote: >In article <4.1.19990130165432.03d5deb0@genesis.ispace.com>, >Drew Baxter wrote: >> What's sick is Microsofts new Speaker system, it supports 'digital audio' >> via USB. > >This is actually a good idea, since it moves the D/A converter outside >the noisy PC case. > I don't have any major quibbles with my AWE32 (2mb) sitting inside my computer case. As it goes my Boston Acoustics speakers are a tad overpowering (can shake the floor up above me pretty well :)). But all is fair in music and video games. >> Thing is, not Win95 Compatible, let alone anything else. >> Requires Win98, otherwise it's analog via standard input. > >Well, that part is not a good idea. Well course not :) other problem is I don't see Microsoft willingly giving any parts of the driver source either, so that FreeBSD, etc. can design drivers to support the thing.. Talk about monopoly power though, "Check out our new product that noone else has yet" then "You need Win98 to run it".. Win98 was *EXTREMELY* memory-hole intensive on this thing. 3 or 4 hours down the road and it'd slow down to around 486-66 speed and I'd have to reboot. No thank you. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 08:31:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16264 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id LAA07530 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:31:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990131112841.038350e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:31:25 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Aout-To-Elf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Someone fix the makefile.upgrade? :-) Trying to migrate from aout-to-elf right now I guess. I thought I was running ELF but I've been doing this from 3.0-SNAP, so maybe not. Something (yacc) quibbled at me earlier about not having /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1.. Also make buildworld flips out at yywrap in error_table.c. Anyone else seen this issue? I guess I could define YY_SKIP_YYWRAP to skip it altogether, but I don't think that's how I really want to go about it. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 08:47:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18322 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:47:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server.noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18316 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: by server.noc.demon.net; id QAA01644; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:47:37 GMT Received: from fanf.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.83) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xma001640; Sun, 31 Jan 99 16:47:29 GMT Received: from fanf by fanf.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 1.73 #2) id 10701v-0004uS-00; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:47:27 +0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Tony Finch Subject: Re: USB drivers Newsgroups: chiark.mail.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199901310006.RAA25943@usr04.primenet.com> Organization: Deliberate Obfuscation To Amuse Tony References: Message-Id: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:47:27 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: >> >Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to >> >the world is a USB port? >> >> It'd be rather crippled with only 12Mbit/s of IO. > >Beats ethernet... I doubt I'd want to swap over it, though :-) >> >Anyway, Amancio says he'd prefer FireWire for the monitor (at it's >> >slowest, FW can transfer 68 Mbits/S more a second than PCI!), but >> >of course he's a video geek. 8-). >> >> I think you have your bits and bytes mixed up :-) Firewire starts out >> at 100Mbit/s (or at least it did when I first heard about it in 1994) >> and PCI starts at 132Mbyte/s. IIRC Firewire was designed to be >> extended to 800Mbit/s which doesn't get very near PCI's minimum. > >Feh. You're right. Mea Culpa (and the maximum is 400Mbits/S). On >the plus side, the PCI number you have is a burst rate, and not >sustainable for something like a video frame rate. The same is true for FireWire, of course. If I remember the wire protocol correctly there's an overhead of about 50%. >And I guess the ability to pull an Amiga and use a section of main >memory as video memory, with a memory bus connector, instead of >on-board video hardware. I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. For years now graphics cards have had fairly special memory architectures (VRAM etc.) so that they can stream data from the RAM to the DAC at a couple of hundred megapixels per second without killing the bandwidth available to the controller (let alone the CPU). I was never an Amiga geek but I guess "chip RAM" or whatever it was called was supposed to address this problem. But then: > What you should do instead is send S3/ATI/whatever commands to a chipset > in the monitor case, running the raster out of dual ported RAM based > on what the engine has been told to render. > > This is less useful for, say, throwing BT848 input to a monitor, but > you'd expect that video hardware would use the computer as a peripheral > instead of the other way around (i.e., you're video-in-to-video-out > would ignore the computer, for the most part, if you are trying to move > all of the pixels in sync with an input source, as opposed to generating > the pixels computationally. It would also be cool to be able to plug your disks and your graphics controller into the same bus so that you can tell your rendering engine to load its graphics from over there and then spend some time doing something more useful than shuffling megabytes... Maybe in a year or two :-) Tony. -- f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 08:55:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19161 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:55:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19138 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:55:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05401; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:54:34 GMT Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:54:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Drew Baxter cc: Michael Shields , Jason Thorpe , Terry Lambert , wes@softweyr.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990131105502.038c3a80@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Drew Baxter wrote: > > Well course not :) other problem is I don't see Microsoft willingly giving > any parts of the driver source either, so that FreeBSD, etc. can design > drivers to support the thing.. I think USB speakers have a standard protocol. You can buy them from Phillips as well. Of course M$ might have 'added value' to them. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 09:29:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23683 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23678 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA14605; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:27:54 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B47F2E.702E097@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 01:05:02 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Withrow CC: Dru Nelson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199901311549.KAA06309@spooky.rwwa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Withrow wrote: > > dnelson@redwoodsoft.com said: > :- /etc/r.c/init.d/{name your service} start|stop|status|restart > > Which ignores the relationships issue. For example, restarting X > may cause Y and Z to croak! > > What is needed is something like this: > > /etc/initsys start|stop|status|restart > > Where the initsys script takes into account the relationships. What he said. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 09:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25959 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacman.redwoodsoft.com (redwoodsoft.com [207.181.199.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA25950 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:48:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnelson@pacman.redwoodsoft.com) Received: (qmail 12686 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Jan 1999 17:48:51 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:48:51 -0800 (PST) From: Dru Nelson To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <199901311549.KAA06309@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > dnelson@redwoodsoft.com said: > :- /etc/r.c/init.d/{name your service} start|stop|status|restart > > Which ignores the relationships issue. For example, restarting X > may cause Y and Z to croak! Well, I didn't say ignore the relationships issue, I was making a case for the rc.d scripts system in general. > /etc/initsys start|stop|status|restart > > Where the initsys script takes into account the relationships. Still, services like mail, httpd, dns are fairly independent. They usually don't rely on too much. However, I think this is something to strive for. It would be nice to get the warning: 'can't start httpd -> depends on database which isn't running. Start database? [Y/n]?' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 10:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01767 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01761 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:37:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27319; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07195; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901311837.KAA07195@vashon.polstra.com> To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Subject: Re: Correct way to write a thread-safe library Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Robert Watson wrote: > > So here I am, chugging away at a library I'm writing, and I notice that > the spec requires me to report errors via errno. I immediatly recall a > long discussion of errno changes a long time ago and macro definitions of > it. So my question is this--what is the correct way for me to write a > thread-safe library that can be used by threaded and non-threaded code, > and that also uses errno to report errors? The general idea is that in or you define "errno" as something like this: #define errno (* __error()) and then make "__error()" return a pointer to where the possibly thread-specific value is stored. You can look at our existing libc and libc_r code for an example. The C standard explicitly allows for this by requiring "errno" to be an lvalue but not necessarily a simple variable. It also requires compilation units that reference "errno" to include . John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 10:51:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03740 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27373; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07228; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> To: asmodai@wxs.nl Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > I just want to verify a few things before I go off ranting about broken > stuff in CURRENT. > > are libraries in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib tied to naming standards? To be recognized by ldconfig, an a.out shared library must have a name that ends with ".so." followed by at least two version numbers, like this: libfoo.so.12.0 It accepts names with > 2 version numbers, but anybody who puts such a library into our code base will be sentenced to a long, slow, painful, suffering death. :-) To be recognized by ldconfig, an ELF shared library must have a name that ends with ".so." followed by exactly one version number, like this: libfoo.so.12 > for example, is this an accepted name for ldconfig: > > libgmodule-1.1.so.12.0 For a.out: yes. For ELF: no. > Also, should a library have special permissions? It just has to be readable. > Every library found by ldconfig in the specified paths should be > reported back with ldconfig -r, right? Only the ones with names that fit the rules above. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 10:54:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com [206.27.167.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04139 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from conrads@as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) id MAA02609 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:52:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:52:53 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: conrads@neosoft.com From: Conrad Sabatier To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Help needed with ntalkd mod Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'd like to modify ntalkd to beep three times in rapid succession when an incoming talk request arrives, so I can distinguish it easily from, say, incoming mail. I've looked at the source but can't figure out how to achieve this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Conrad Sabatier "Why isn't there a special name for the tops of your feet?" -- Lily Tomlin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 10:57:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04473 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04464; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02475; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:37:23 GMT (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA92483; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199901311636.QAA92483@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matt Curtin cc: Frank Seltzer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp hangs using PAP In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Jan 1999 14:19:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just added a new section to the FAQ at http://www.FreeBSD.org/FAQ/userppp.html entitled ``My connection hangs after a random amount of time''. It may be worth a visit (it should be available in less than a day). > [moved to questions] > > [Snipped story about PPP staying up for days at a time until a change > at the ISP that uses PAP authentication, after which PPP hangs up > routinely.] > > I have experienced the idential situation here, with an older release > of FreeBSD (2.1.5-R). I (incorrectly?) blamed the situation on my > infinitely competent ISP. > > I'm curious to know what's happening, but don't consider the problem > to be much in the way of a crisis. > > -- > Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 11:02:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05292; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02475; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:37:23 GMT (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA92483; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199901311636.QAA92483@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matt Curtin cc: Frank Seltzer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp hangs using PAP In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Jan 1999 14:19:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just added a new section to the FAQ at http://www.FreeBSD.org/FAQ/userppp.html entitled ``My connection hangs after a random amount of time''. It may be worth a visit (it should be available in less than a day). > [moved to questions] > > [Snipped story about PPP staying up for days at a time until a change > at the ISP that uses PAP authentication, after which PPP hangs up > routinely.] > > I have experienced the idential situation here, with an older release > of FreeBSD (2.1.5-R). I (incorrectly?) blamed the situation on my > infinitely competent ISP. > > I'm curious to know what's happening, but don't consider the problem > to be much in the way of a crisis. > > -- > Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 11:04:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05464; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02475; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:37:23 GMT (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA92483; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199901311636.QAA92483@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matt Curtin cc: Frank Seltzer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp hangs using PAP In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Jan 1999 14:19:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:28 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just added a new section to the FAQ at http://www.FreeBSD.org/FAQ/userppp.html entitled ``My connection hangs after a random amount of time''. It may be worth a visit (it should be available in less than a day). > [moved to questions] > > [Snipped story about PPP staying up for days at a time until a change > at the ISP that uses PAP authentication, after which PPP hangs up > routinely.] > > I have experienced the idential situation here, with an older release > of FreeBSD (2.1.5-R). I (incorrectly?) blamed the situation on my > infinitely competent ISP. > > I'm curious to know what's happening, but don't consider the problem > to be much in the way of a crisis. > > -- > Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 11:14:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07303 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id EAA19304; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:14:23 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B4A6D5.1C73F700@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 03:54:13 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dru Nelson CC: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dru Nelson wrote: > > Still, services like mail, httpd, dns are fairly independent. They > usually don't rely on too much. > > However, I think this is something to strive for. It would be nice to > get the warning: 'can't start httpd -> depends on database which isn't > running. Start database? [Y/n]?' I think it was Terry who came with the following example in one of the previous incarnations of this thread. Services like mail and dns depend on the network. Which network? The ppp dial on demand of your laptop, or the network DHCP when you dock it in your office? Obviously, both are valid. So, when you start dns, it must account for both possibilities. It depends on "at least one of them" being up. You also want to just tell it to start dns, and have all dependencies brought up automatically. You need a "default" network stack. If you stop the ppp, all things that were depending on it must be brought down first, *if* they don't have something else providing the dependency for them (like the network). The usual answer for this scenario is "this is too complicated; let's just do the levels stuff". Which, obviously, is another way of saying "It is too much work to design/implement what you want, so I'll settle for what *I* want, even though *you* are perfectly happy with the way things are right now, and would not have any use for lesser functionality than you described." Thankfully, people saying this have not also produced the code, which is much more likely to get things changed. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 11:44:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11527 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1072nC-0000V2-00; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:44:26 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA90357; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:44:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901311944.MAA90357@harmony.village.org> To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Subject: Re: some weird C Cc: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:47:08 +1000." <199901310747.RAA27181@zeus.theinternet.com.au> References: <199901310747.RAA27181@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:44:56 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199901310747.RAA27181@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Andrew Kenneth Milton writes: : +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- : | : | I was expecting 9, not 10. : | since 4+5=9? : : x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. : : This is correct behaviour. Both behaviors are correct. x += x++; is undefined. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:03:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13357 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13346 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1072og-0000VB-00; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:45:58 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA90385; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:46:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901311946.MAA90385@harmony.village.org> To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Subject: Re: some weird C Cc: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:35:55 +1000." <199901311035.UAA28754@zeus.theinternet.com.au> References: <199901311035.UAA28754@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:46:29 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199901311035.UAA28754@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Andrew Kenneth Milton writes: : +----[ Daniel C. Sobral ]--------------------------------------------- : | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: : | > : | > +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- : | > | : | > | I was expecting 9, not 10. : | > | since 4+5=9? : | > : | > x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. : | > : | > This is correct behaviour. : | : | Explain the 8 then... if x++ takes effect *after* +=, it should have : | been 9, right? : : No. the time at which a post increment operation takes place is : undefined, but, before the next *expression* x += x++; is undefined. That's the explaination. If x is 4 before, then it could be 8, 9, 10 or 1045 after the expression, and they would all be right. Waarner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13355 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1072uN-0000VM-00; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:51:51 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA90424; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:52:22 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901311952.MAA90424@harmony.village.org> To: conrads@neosoft.com Subject: Re: Help needed with ntalkd mod Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:52:53 CST." References: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:52:22 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Conrad Sabatier writes: : Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Look at announce.c near line 127. Add \a\a\a before "Message from... to get this effect. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13418 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13356 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.224]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA972; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:03:44 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:12:28 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: John Polstra Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31-Jan-99 John Polstra wrote: > In article , > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> >> are libraries in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib tied to naming standards? > > To be recognized by ldconfig, an a.out shared library must have a > name that ends with ".so." followed by at least two version numbers, > like this: > > libfoo.so.12.0 > > To be recognized by ldconfig, an ELF shared library must have a name > that ends with ".so." followed by exactly one version number, like > this: > > libfoo.so.12 Why this change in library naming from a.out to elf? >> for example, is this an accepted name for ldconfig: >> >> libgmodule-1.1.so.12.0 > > For a.out: yes. For ELF: no. OK, this just broke a tonload of applications out there for people who like to compile stuff by themselves. E.g. Gtk+, Glib, libPropList. What would a workaround be then? Because an app depends on a certain name of a library or am I mistaken in that belief? >> Every library found by ldconfig in the specified paths should be >> reported back with ldconfig -r, right? > > Only the ones with names that fit the rules above. That explains why my previously list of a.out libs of about 185 is only 95 at the moment. *sigh* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:16:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:16:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14887 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:16:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27807; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA07605; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:16:24 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > Why this change in library naming from a.out to elf? This was discussed *to death* in the -current mailing list at the time the switch to ELF was made. Go look in the archives. I don't have the stomach for going over it yet again. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:27:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:27:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16125 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.224]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA31BF; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:27:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:36:15 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: John Polstra Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31-Jan-99 John Polstra wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> >> Why this change in library naming from a.out to elf? > > This was discussed *to death* in the -current mailing list at the time > the switch to ELF was made. Go look in the archives. I don't have > the stomach for going over it yet again. Hmmm ok, will do... This is the stuff one always finds out when one has more knowledge about what exactly certain things are for... *sigh* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:36:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17480 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA03095; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:36:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199901312036.HAA03095@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Correct way to write a thread-safe library In-Reply-To: <199901311837.KAA07195@vashon.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Jan 31, 1999 10:37:10 am" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:36:14 +1100 (EST) Cc: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > and then make "__error()" return a pointer to where the possibly > thread-specific value is stored. You can look at our existing libc > and libc_r code for an example. > > The C standard explicitly allows for this by requiring "errno" to be > an lvalue but not necessarily a simple variable. It also requires > compilation units that reference "errno" to include . Sorry I missed the original mail. I think the question was about writing a library that _uses_ errno rather than one that implements it. From 3.0-RELEASE on, FreeBSD's errno definition in is thread aware, so there is no need to do anything in third-party libraries other than to code: errno = Esomething; -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:38:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com [206.27.167.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17826 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from conrads@as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) id OAA19404; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:37:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901311952.MAA90424@harmony.village.org> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:37:02 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: conrads@neosoft.com From: Conrad Sabatier To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Help needed with ntalkd mod Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31-Jan-99 Warner Losh wrote: > In message Conrad Sabatier > writes: >: Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > Look at announce.c near line 127. Add \a\a\a before "Message from... > to get this effect. I've tried adding alarms in numerous places, but I still only get a single beep. I really don't understand why. -- Conrad Sabatier It is the business of the future to be dangerous. -- Hawkwind To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:42:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:42:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18495 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.224]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3F23; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:42:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:51:15 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: John Polstra Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31-Jan-99 John Polstra wrote: > This was discussed *to death* in the -current mailing list at the time > the switch to ELF was made. Go look in the archives. I don't have > the stomach for going over it yet again. Just to make sure: around September 1998, the thread ELF ldconfig? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven It's a Dance of Energy, asmodai(at)wxs.nl when the Mind goes Binary... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 12:47:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:47:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19150 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1073lk-0000Xc-00; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:47:00 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA90863; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:47:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901312047.NAA90863@harmony.village.org> To: conrads@neosoft.com Subject: Re: Help needed with ntalkd mod Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:37:02 CST." References: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:47:31 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Conrad Sabatier writes: : I've tried adding alarms in numerous places, but I still only get a single : beep. I really don't understand why. I know that xterm will not ring the bell again if another bell comes in while the bell is ringing. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 18:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:04:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alive.znep.com (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-222.oz.net [216.39.144.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01160 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29122 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Slemko To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "$1$" crypt() algorithm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know if there are any other OS'es that use a "$1$" identifier for crypt()ed passwords but do not use the same md5 algorithm that FreeBSD does? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 18:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rs5s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs5s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03494 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from cantv.net (tc1r9-308.ras.cha.cantv.net [200.44.7.52]) by rs5s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with ESMTP id WAA02058; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:20:27 -0400 (VET) Message-ID: <36B50F0E.9A921B32@cantv.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:18:54 -0400 From: "Luis Muñoz" Reply-To: lem@cantv.net Organization: CANTV Servicios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Slemko CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "$1$" crypt() algorithm References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Slemko wrote: > > Does anyone know if there are any other OS'es that use a "$1$" identifier > for crypt()ed passwords but do not use the same md5 algorithm that FreeBSD > does? I wrote a perl module to handle this kind of encryption model on various machines. I know of people working on linux, alpha, sun and others with it sharing password files from other systems (probably linux and FreeBSD). In all of them it works, which means it is the same algorithm. I'll be very interested to know if you find any positives. Regards, -lem To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 18:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05538 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from epistolic.cynic.net (epistolic.cynic.net [199.175.137.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05531 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@cynic.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by epistolic.cynic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA16102; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:41:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:41:12 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Robert Withrow cc: Dru Nelson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <199901311549.KAA06309@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Robert Withrow wrote: > dnelson@redwoodsoft.com said: > :- /etc/r.c/init.d/{name your service} start|stop|status|restart > > Which ignores the relationships issue. For example, restarting X > may cause Y and Z to croak! > > What is needed is something like this: > > /etc/initsys start|stop|status|restart > > Where the initsys script takes into account the relationships. I proposed a way of doing this for NetBSD recently, though I've not gotten around to implementing anything yet. Basically what you would have would be an rc.d directory with scripts for each application that take the start|stop|status|restart argument above, but they would also accept a couple of arguments that would spit out the services it depends on and the services dependent on it. There'd be a program that would run all of these, figure out a dependency graph, and generate a shell script capable of starting or stopping anything with the dependencies taken into account. (I felt that, in a boot or single-user environment, the shell script would be a lot more reliable, not to mention a lot faster, than something that tried to generate the dependencies dynamically.) One interesting thing you can do with this is dump your own script, `foo', into the directory which says `x, y and z are all dependent on me.' Then you can start or stop foo, and that would take care of starting and stopping x, y and z. This will let you emulate SysV run levels, but also provide a lot more flexability. cjs -- Curt Sampson 604 801 5335 De gustibus, aut bene aut nihil. The most widely ported operating system in the world: http://www.netbsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 19:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09644 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40338>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:15:06 +1100 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:24:48 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: USB drivers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Feb1.141506est.40338@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony Overfield wrote: >http://ruputer.com/english/ That's somewhat easier to read. It says things like `16-bit processor', `128K RAM', `512K or 2M Flash'. This doesn't sound like the ideal environment for FreeBSD. (For that matter, the `data entry' capabilities don't strike me as an ideal way to enhance my coding or documentation productivity). For the money, I'd prefer a PalmPilot (or similar). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 19:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10297 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:31:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4021.ime.net [209.90.195.31]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id WAA59744; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:31:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990131222944.03b2d120@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:31:08 -0500 To: Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <99Feb1.141506est.40338@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:24 PM 1/31/99 , Peter Jeremy wrote: >Tony Overfield wrote: >>http://ruputer.com/english/ > >That's somewhat easier to read. It says things like `16-bit processor', >`128K RAM', `512K or 2M Flash'. This doesn't sound like the ideal >environment for FreeBSD. (For that matter, the `data entry' capabilities >don't strike me as an ideal way to enhance my coding or documentation >productivity). For the money, I'd prefer a PalmPilot (or similar). > >Peter I was talking more for 'novelty' than anything. THAT is what I'd refer to as a 'wearable'. If you can find a palmpilot-compatible item that would fit on my wrist without me looking like an idiot with a Palmpilot strapped to my wrist, I'd be interested to hear it. :) As it goes both the Palmpilot and my VELO 1 are pretty uncomfortable in the pocket. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 19:34:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10825 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10819 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:34:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17842; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:04:22 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990131222944.03b2d120@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:04:22 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Peter Jeremy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 01-Feb-99 Drew Baxter wrote: > As it goes both the Palmpilot and my VELO 1 are pretty uncomfortable in the > pocket. Depends on your pockets :) Mine is fine =) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 19:48:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:48:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12073 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40350>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:38:47 +1100 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:48:26 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Feb1.143847est.40350@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: [make vs tsort] >The advantage of make is that you could do a 'make -j12 boot' style thing There's no reason why you can't automatically build a makefile from a list of dependencies embedded in the scripts. The script to do this would be very similar to the script used to generate the input to tsort. I think the concept of allowing arbitrary `run level' names with arbitrary dependencies is more important than whether it is implemented using tsort(1) or make(1) to resolve the dependencies. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 19:59:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12725 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12720 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:59:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40324>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:49:17 +1100 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:58:56 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: USB drivers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Feb1.144917est.40324@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony Finch wrote: >Terry Lambert wrote: >>And I guess the ability to pull an Amiga and use a section of main >>memory as video memory, with a memory bus connector, instead of >>on-board video hardware. > >I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. It had problems even in the Amiga - the `hi-res' modes [like 640x480x16 colour] used _all_ of the chip RAM bandwidth - the processor only got a look-in during retrace periods (assuming your audio and sprites weren't using all that). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 20:06:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13486 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:06:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4021.ime.net [209.90.195.31]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA59775; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:06:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990131230552.03d15660@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:06:15 -0500 To: "Daniel O'Connor" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990131222944.03b2d120@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:34 PM 1/31/99 , Daniel O'Connor wrote: > >On 01-Feb-99 Drew Baxter wrote: >> As it goes both the Palmpilot and my VELO 1 are pretty uncomfortable in the >> pocket. >Depends on your pockets :) >Mine is fine =) I have a wallet, keys to every machine to open them, a lot of pens.. Really difficult, I have to go 'digging for gold' to find something. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 20:18:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14903 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18405; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:48:22 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <99Feb1.144917est.40324@border.alcanet.com.au> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:48:22 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 01-Feb-99 Peter Jeremy wrote: > >I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. > > It had problems even in the Amiga - the `hi-res' modes [like > 640x480x16 colour] used _all_ of the chip RAM bandwidth - the > processor only got a look-in during retrace periods (assuming > your audio and sprites weren't using all that). Yes, but lets face it the Amiga's bus isn't exactly fast by todays standards :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 21:06:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20149 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:06:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40330>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:56:28 +1100 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:06:09 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: USB drivers To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Feb1.155628est.40330@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel O'Connor" wrote: >On 01-Feb-99 Peter Jeremy wrote: >> >I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. >> >> It had problems even in the Amiga - the `hi-res' modes [like >> 640x480x16 colour] used _all_ of the chip RAM bandwidth >Yes, but lets face it the Amiga's bus isn't exactly fast by todays standards :) OK then, I'll use more current figures: the system I am typing this on runs at somewhat over 5Gbps to the display - or just under 4Gbps if you don't count retrace time. That's about 2 PCI busses just for the display. It's not practical today to build a decent display subsystem using standard DRAM, let alone using the system's main memory, accessed via a standard bus. To try and head back to where this started: Running a display over USB is only practical if the graphics card is in the monitor and the USB is just carrying the display updates. [And when you follow this through logically, you wind up with an X-server in your monitor, so you might as well put the rest of the computer in there as well]. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 21:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:29:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22806 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19119; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:59:01 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <99Feb1.155628est.40330@border.alcanet.com.au> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 15:59:01 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 01-Feb-99 Peter Jeremy wrote: > To try and head back to where this started: Running a display over USB > is only practical if the graphics card is in the monitor and the USB > is just carrying the display updates. [And when you follow this through > logically, you wind up with an X-server in your monitor, so you might > as well put the rest of the computer in there as well]. All true.. We'll just have to wait until we go further around the cycle of incarnation :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 21:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25831 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:52:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.osi.ru (gateway.osi.ru [195.178.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25823 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:52:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@osi.ru) Received: from speecart.osi.ru (speecart.osi.ru [195.178.194.35]) by gateway.osi.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10752; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:54:44 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901302346.QAA24966@usr04.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:59:48 +0300 (MSK) Organization: OSI AF, Moscow office From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: select and threads again Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thank you for detailed information. There was no write selecting at all (I guess), but was exceptional conditions selecting. The socketpair() fails in the same manner. I will try AF_INET socket later, because it is needed to make much more changes in ILU code. Sergey On 30-Jan-99 Terry Lambert wrote: > > The real non-libc_r wrapped select is supposed to be called by the > wrapping select using a zero valued timeval struct (effecting a "poll") > when there are other threads ready to run. > > When all threads are blocked pending I/O on fd's, then a real select is > called on all of the fd's on which I/O is pending with a NULL pointer > instead of a zero valued timeval struct. This makes the select hang > until I/O is available on one or more of the fd's. > > If you are getting a blocking select, then the only possible cause > is that the scheduler believes that there are no other threads in > a read-to-run state, and therefore makes the blocking call instead > of call converting it to a polling call which, if not input is > pending, is followed by a threads context switch. > > > Perhaps you are both read and write selecting the pipe fd, in two > seperate threads? > > In general, write selecting is a bad idea. > > This may be a problem in the pipe code, or in the wrapping function > in libc_r (unlikely). > > You could try using a POSIX domain socket instead of a pipe; it uses > the same underlying code (man socketpair). If this also hangs, try > using a real socket (AF_INET instead of AF_UNIX). > > Also, make sure you are not using fork(), since it interacts badly > with threads. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. --- ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Sergey S. Kosyakov Date: 01-Feb-99 Time: 08:44:42 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 23:19:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05368 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05362 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02501; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:19:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B5556B.1957A699@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:19:07 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Withrow Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <99Feb1.143847est.40350@border.alcanet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > > Peter Wemm wrote: > [make vs tsort] > >The advantage of make is that you could do a 'make -j12 boot' style thing > > There's no reason why you can't automatically build a makefile from > a list of dependencies embedded in the scripts. The script to do this > would be very similar to the script used to generate the input to tsort. > > I think the concept of allowing arbitrary `run level' names with > arbitrary dependencies is more important than whether it is implemented > using tsort(1) or make(1) to resolve the dependencies. Agreed. What external programs are called in the process is immaterial; as usual in the UNIX world we have an embarrassment of riches. ;^) So, let's define some baseline wishes here, then discuss how one might go about implementing them. I'll try to list what I've seen here so far. o The ability to start and stop individual subsystems, and start/stop all dependent subsystems. o The ability to specify some sort of alternate configuration name on system startup, for instance to move between an ethernet and PPP configuration. o The ability to add a package into the system configuration without editing existing scripts; each package configuration file should be standalone and self-contained. Did I hit the high points? I really think this is doable, if we can figure out what it is that we're trying to do. So far, Robert Withrow's proposal with each script providing a standard set of shell functions is looking pretty promising. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 31 23:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07105 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24712; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpds24709; Mon Feb 1 07:37:12 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Wes Peters cc: Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Withrow Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B5556B.1957A699@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sounds like you arwe describing the process that we use to control the interjet. all system activities are assigned dependencies, including such things as "hostname was changed" and similar events. If you indicate such an event the dependency graph is traversed and all services that have such a dependency are notified or restarted. Of course it's very interjet specific. so of course it IS doable.. but it requires a lot ofinfrastructure, and of course we are running a very predictable environment where we know all activities being run under freeBSD onth e Interjet, as well as the hardware configuration. So our dependencies can be hardcoded.. julian On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > > Peter Wemm wrote: > > [make vs tsort] > > >The advantage of make is that you could do a 'make -j12 boot' style thing > > > > There's no reason why you can't automatically build a makefile from > > a list of dependencies embedded in the scripts. The script to do this > > would be very similar to the script used to generate the input to tsort. > > > > I think the concept of allowing arbitrary `run level' names with > > arbitrary dependencies is more important than whether it is implemented > > using tsort(1) or make(1) to resolve the dependencies. > > Agreed. What external programs are called in the process is immaterial; > as usual in the UNIX world we have an embarrassment of riches. ;^) > > So, let's define some baseline wishes here, then discuss how one might > go about implementing them. I'll try to list what I've seen here so > far. > > o The ability to start and stop individual subsystems, and start/stop > all dependent subsystems. > > o The ability to specify some sort of alternate configuration name on > system startup, for instance to move between an ethernet and PPP > configuration. > > o The ability to add a package into the system configuration without > editing existing scripts; each package configuration file should be > standalone and self-contained. > > Did I hit the high points? > > I really think this is doable, if we can figure out what it is that > we're trying to do. So far, Robert Withrow's proposal with each > script providing a standard set of shell functions is looking pretty > promising. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 00:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coiib.es ([195.76.52.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11322; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from janet9981@yahoo.com) From: janet9981@yahoo.com Received: from mirentxu.coiib.es by coiib.es (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA03948; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:14:59 -0100 Message-Id: <199902011114.KAA03948@coiib.es> To: adsrtc@mtyisrot.com Date: Sun, 31 Jan 99 23:41:37 EST Subject: Maximize your website's traffic! 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What we *will* do is simply present very relevant keywords for your site to the search engines in the way that they "like" to see it. ------------- "It's simple: If they can't find you on the search engines, they can't buy from you." -- J. LeRoss, Internet Sales Consultant ------------ HOW WELL DOES THE SERVICE WORK? We'll send you a detailed report of your current search engine ranking on "The Big Six" engines before we begin. Then, once your new entry pages have been indexed, we'll send you a second report showing how they've ranked. Here's a sampling of some results we've acheived for previous clients. (These examples are for competitive keywords--not just obscure words on which no one is conducting searches.) <> 6 top-10 rankings on Infoseek for different relevant keywords <> 18 top-10 rankings across the major search engines <> 3 top-10 rankings on Alta Vista for one keyword <> 16 total *number one* rankings <> 40 top-30 rankings, spread across the different engines. <> 1 to 2 hits per week increased to 500 per day <> 45,000 hits per month grew to 108,000. ------------ HOW MUCH DOES YOUR SERVICE COST? Our basic services start at only $385. The basic package includes: <> Construction of optimized entry pages for up to 20 keywords -- This gives you good "coverage" in your industry <> Submission of the keyword-dense entry pages to the "Big Six" search engines When you contact us, ask about other services we provide that may be able to help your Internet initiatives succeed. We have special services that can be tailored for your specific Internet marketing needs. ------------ HOW DO I GET STARTED? <> Call us--we'll answer any questions you may have and provide a no-cost initial consultation. (310) 859-4659 <> Submit your keywords and/or keyword phrases (up to 20) to us ------------ COMMENTS FROM CLIENTS "Frankly, I'm impressed with the foregoing. So many solicitations from email sources turn out to be a phone line that hooks up to a voice mail system that is designed to give the impression of size, and people who never return phone calls/messages. . . So its a pleasant surprise to find that someone at the other end is really operating as a business!!!" --Alan B. "Incredible! Our site is now receiving more hits in a day than we used to get in an entire month. [My boss] is still eating his words." -- Bob W. "I knew the search engines were a fantastic marketing tool, but my company simply didn't have the time to devote to search engine placement. It has proven to be the best money we've ever spent on marketing." -- Shelley H. "I worked for weeks to get good search engine placement, but I could never crack the top 80 . . . my site was deserted. Within a month [after using your service], I'd had more hits than I'd had in the last year. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me." -- Chris L. ------------ OUR JOB: INCREASE YOUR WEB SITE'S RANKING. We can't guarantee that better ranking will increase the number of visitors that "surf" to your Web site. Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic--much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords. However, high rankings, in most cases, do mean increased Web site traffic. And, we have never failed to increase a client's ranking. Ever. ------------ CONTACT A REPRESENTATIVE: Search Engine Success Group - Call us at: (310) 859-4659 ----------------------- If you've received this message in error--and are not interested in our services--please click reply or call, (888)-248-2236, and we'll remove you from our list. Maximize your website's traffic. INCREASE YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK! If your Web site isn't getting the traffic it should, it's likely that it's not ranked well on the major Internet search engines. According to recent Internet E-commerce studies, over 90% of consumers find the Web sites they visit by using eight major search engines, which are Yahoo!, Excite, AltaVista, Infoseek, Lycos, Web Crawler, HotBot, and Northern Light. If your website isn't located in the top-30 listings of these engines, chances are your site will never be seen. The single most important thing you can do to increase your Web site's traffic is to increase your search engine ranking. ------------- "PUT YOUR NAME IN LIGHTS -- List your business with search engines to make sure potential customers can find it." -- BIZ Excite, PC Computing magazine, November 1998 ------------- THE BASICS: HOW SEARCH ENGINES RANK YOUR SITE When you submit your website to a search engine to be indexed in its database, it sends a "robot" to scan your page. Using complex algorithms to rank your page for keyword relevance, the "robot" determines whether you'll be ranked number 1 or 1,000,000 when potential visitors conduct a search looking for sites like yours. Because the search engines are constantly changing their algorithms to provide users with the best possible search results, there's only one true solution to high search engine placement--us. In short, submission alone isn't enough. *Good search engine ranking* is critical to your site's success. ------------- HERE'S WHAT WE DO -- A UNIQUE, SUCCESSFUL APPROACH In order to counter the ever-changing search engine algorithms, we create an entire series of "entry pages" that are optimized for the search engines--one for every keyword (or keyword phrase) that you provide. Each entry page is optimized for a different set of algorithm variables. In other words, instead of having only *one* page struggling to rank well on all engines, we create separate, search engine-specific entry pages for each keyword. As a result, your pages rank well because they contain information relevant to search queries that are related to your industry. ------------- HOW ENTRY PAGES AFFECT YOUR WEB SITE'S CURRENT STRUCTURE Put simply, they don't. When creating entry pages we *do not* make any changes to the existing structure, content, or functionality of your current site. The entry pages act as a welcome screen for your Web site when people enter from your highly ranked link on the search engine. The pages will say a few introductory words about your site, which are keyword and/or keyword phrase rich, and then provide a link that asks the visitor to "Click Here To Enter," which moves them directly to your current homepage. ------------ HERE'S WHAT WE DON'T *EVER* DO TO HELP YOUR SEARCH ENGINE RANK We *will not* build pages for irrelevant--yet "popular"--keywords. Also, we will *never* "spamdex" pages. "Spamdexing" is "stuffing" a Web page full of words for the search engine's robots. You may have seen spamdexing, which is placing many words in the same text color as a background onto a Web page. Spamdexing will actually get your pages "kicked" from search engine indexes. What we *will* do is simply present very relevant keywords for your site to the search engines in the way that they "like" to see it. ------------- "It's simple: If they can't find you on the search engines, they can't buy from you." -- J. LeRoss, Internet Sales Consultant ------------ HOW WELL DOES THE SERVICE WORK? We'll send you a detailed report of your current search engine ranking on "The Big Six" engines before we begin. Then, once your new entry pages have been indexed, we'll send you a second report showing how they've ranked. Here's a sampling of some results we've acheived for previous clients. (These examples are for competitive keywords--not just obscure words on which no one is conducting searches.) <> 6 top-10 rankings on Infoseek for different relevant keywords <> 18 top-10 rankings across the major search engines <> 3 top-10 rankings on Alta Vista for one keyword <> 16 total *number one* rankings <> 40 top-30 rankings, spread across the different engines. <> 1 to 2 hits per week increased to 500 per day <> 45,000 hits per month grew to 108,000. ------------ HOW MUCH DOES YOUR SERVICE COST? Our basic services start at only $385. The basic package includes: <> Construction of optimized entry pages for up to 20 keywords -- This gives you good "coverage" in your industry <> Submission of the keyword-dense entry pages to the "Big Six" search engines When you contact us, ask about other services we provide that may be able to help your Internet initiatives succeed. We have special services that can be tailored for your specific Internet marketing needs. ------------ HOW DO I GET STARTED? <> Call us--we'll answer any questions you may have and provide a no-cost initial consultation. (888) 283-2050 <> Submit your keywords and/or keyword phrases (up to 20) to us ------------ COMMENTS FROM CLIENTS "Frankly, I'm impressed with the foregoing. So many solicitations from email sources turn out to be a phone line that hooks up to a voice mail system that is designed to give the impression of size, and people who never return phone calls/messages. . . So its a pleasant surprise to find that someone at the other end is really operating as a business!!!" --Alan B. "Incredible! Our site is now receiving more hits in a day than we used to get in an entire month. [My boss] is still eating his words." -- Bob W. "I knew the search engines were a fantastic marketing tool, but my company simply didn't have the time to devote to search engine placement. It has proven to be the best money we've ever spent on marketing." -- Shelley H. "I worked for weeks to get good search engine placement, but I could never crack the top 80 . . . my site was deserted. Within a month [after using your service], I'd had more hits than I'd had in the last year. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me." -- Chris L. ------------ OUR JOB: INCREASE YOUR WEB SITE'S RANKING. We can't guarantee that better ranking will increase the number of visitors that "surf" to your Web site. Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic--much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords. However, high rankings, in most cases, do mean increased Web site traffic. And, we have never failed to increase a client's ranking. Ever. ------------ CONTACT A REPRESENTATIVE: Search Engine Success Group - Call us at: (888) 283-2050 ----------------------- If you've received this message in error--and are not interested in our services--please click reply or call, (888)-248-2236, and we'll remove you from our list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 02:34:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:34:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wind.freenet.am ([194.151.101.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28058; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from casper@acc.am) Received: from lemming.acc.am (acc.freenet.am [194.151.101.251]) by wind.freenet.am (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA04173; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:29:56 +0400 (GMT) Received: from acc.am (nightmar.acc.am [192.168.100.108]) by lemming.acc.am (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22492; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:53:20 +0400 (AMT) Message-ID: <36B581DE.EFCF61EE@acc.am> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:28:46 +0400 From: Casper Organization: Armenian Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: ru,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-quetions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Patching Mail Server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all! Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? Thanx in advance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 02:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28706 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.nacamar.de (mail.nacamar.de [194.162.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28696 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:39:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rohrbach@mail.nacamar.de) Received: (from rohrbach@localhost) by mail.nacamar.de (8.8.7/8.8.8MB-19980212) id LAA17558; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:38:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19990201113853.D13327@nacamar.net> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:38:53 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Matthew Dillon , "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question Reply-To: rohrbach@nacamar.net References: <20657.917338610@zippy.cdrom.com> <199901260830.AAA14635@apollo.backplane.com> <36ADAA43.4B383143@newsguy.com> <199901261723.JAA19851@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199901261723.JAA19851@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 09:23:41AM -0800 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: rohrbach@nacamar.net X-Organisation: Nacamar Data Communications GmbH X-Address: Robert-Bosch-Str. 32, 63303 Dreieich, Germany X-Phone: vox: +49 6103 993 870 fax: +49 6103 993 199 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon (dillon@apollo.backplane.com) @ Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 09:23:41AM -0800: > > : > :Does it support command-line passed "ignore" files, instead of > :.cpignore? (I prefer to have all these things in one place...) > > If you mean can you have a single ignore file containing the relative > or full paths of the files/directories to ignore, the answer is not > at the moment. I see the utility, but it would also be extremely > dangerous. You can change the cpignore filename that cpdup looks for > in each directory, though. > > Having .cpignore files in the source directories directly is a safety > mechanism. At BEST we even 'chflags schg .cpignore' the most critical > files. > > It may not be necessary for me to be that paranoid now that deletions > are confirmed by default ( they aren't in the version BEST was using ). > > :Does it support patterns in .cpignore? > > Simple */? patterns. *NOT* regex. > how about supporting "standard" semfiles ala .notar, perhaps configurable filenames. something like "IgnoreFiles .notar .nocp .nolife .nothing" and dirs with their subtrees will be ignored in copying (might come in handy with replicating server prototype filesystems). /k -- "Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile." -- Karl Lehenbauer http://www.nacamar.de - http://www.nacamar.net - http://www.webmonster.de http://www.apache.de - http://www.quakeforum.de - finger rohrbach@nacamar.net PGP Key fingerprint = F9 A0 DF 91 74 07 6A 1C 5F 0B E0 6B 4D CD 8C 44 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 03:46:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05535 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:46:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05527 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA02862; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:46:17 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B52323.FE27286D@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:44:35 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Curt Sampson CC: Robert Withrow , Dru Nelson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Curt Sampson wrote: > > One interesting thing you can do with this is dump your own script, > `foo', into the directory which says `x, y and z are all dependent > on me.' Then you can start or stop foo, and that would take care > of starting and stopping x, y and z. This will let you emulate SysV > run levels, but also provide a lot more flexability. Yeah, and having to change my ppp dial on demand script everytime I add something that depends on it. Scripts shouldn't have to be changed. That's the main benefit of FreeBSD's rc.conf. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 03:47:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05706 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:46:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA02876; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:46:26 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B58981.3F044A1F@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 20:01:21 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Withrow Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <99Feb1.143847est.40350@border.alcanet.com.au> <36B5556B.1957A699@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > o The ability to specify some sort of alternate configuration name on > system startup, for instance to move between an ethernet and PPP > configuration. Not system startup. Notebooks don't reboot, they hibernate. :-) It is just a matter of creating dependencies using both && and || logic, possibly with a "preference" assignment in the case of ||, or "ask the user", or "warn and stop". I could code it in five minutes given a Prolog compiler. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 03:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06829 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA53221; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:59:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:59:35 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: Wes Peters cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B5556B.1957A699@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > So, let's define some baseline wishes here, then discuss how one might > go about implementing them. I'll try to list what I've seen here so > far. > > o The ability to start and stop individual subsystems, and start/stop > all dependent subsystems. We need to distinguish between "up if possible" and "up if needed". The generic logic starts getting more complicated. ;-( > o The ability to specify some sort of alternate configuration name on > system startup, for instance to move between an ethernet and PPP > configuration. Actually, more than "on startup". You should be able to move from one environment to another at any time by changing the target. (eg run level) > o The ability to add a package into the system configuration without > editing existing scripts; each package configuration file should be > standalone and self-contained. I don't think that this is the requirement. What I see is the requirement to add the package without changing the meta-scripts. The scheme could (and, IMHO, in some cases, should) rewrite /etc/rc (or equivalent) when a package is added. IOW, the script(s) actually executed might be the output of a configuration generator tool. The inputs to this tool would be tied to the individual packages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 04:03:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:03:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titan.metropolitan.at ([195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07973 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1CLHRBVW>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:04:19 +0100 Message-ID: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D09752B@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: "'Warner Losh'" , Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: some weird C Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:00:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- > -----Original Message----- > From: Warner Losh [SMTP:imp@village.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 8:46 PM > To: Andrew Kenneth Milton > Cc: dcs@newsguy.com; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: some weird C > > In message <199901311035.UAA28754@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Andrew > Kenneth Milton writes: > : +----[ Daniel C. Sobral > ]--------------------------------------------- > : | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > : | > > : | > +----[ Malartre ]--------------------------------------------- > : | > | > : | > | I was expecting 9, not 10. > : | > | since 4+5=9? > : | > > : | > x is pre-incremented, making it 5 *before* the += takes effect. > : | > > : | > This is correct behaviour. > : | > : | Explain the 8 then... if x++ takes effect *after* +=, it should > have > : | been 9, right? > : > : No. the time at which a post increment operation takes place is > : undefined, but, before the next *expression* > > x += x++; is undefined. That's the explaination. > > If x is 4 before, then it could be 8, 9, 10 or 1045 after the > expression, and they would all be right. [ML] That is, if there is any *after*. Completely and utterly destroying the machine, or better, electrocuting the programmer would have been just as correct actions of the compiler. At least, one would get what one deserves for invoking undefined behavior :) /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 04:11:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titan.metropolitan.at ([195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10568 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1CLHRBW1>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:13:38 +0100 Message-ID: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D09752C@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: "'Sergey S. Kosyakov'" , Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: select and threads again Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:09:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Sergey S. Kosyakov [SMTP:ks@osi.ru] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:00 AM > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: select and threads again > > > Thank you for detailed information. > > There was no write selecting at all (I guess), but was exceptional > conditions > selecting. The socketpair() fails in the same manner. I will try > AF_INET socket > later, because it is needed to make much more changes in ILU code. > [ML] Isn't an exception only generated for Out-Of-Band data? Can you have these messages in a pipe at all? (sorry, no manpages nor sources here-- a lamentable NT box: lack of Token Ring support in FreeBSD, and I am not allowed to use the corporate network for driver development :( /marino > Sergey > > On 30-Jan-99 Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > The real non-libc_r wrapped select is supposed to be called by the > > wrapping select using a zero valued timeval struct (effecting a > "poll") > > when there are other threads ready to run. > > > > When all threads are blocked pending I/O on fd's, then a real select > is > > called on all of the fd's on which I/O is pending with a NULL > pointer > > instead of a zero valued timeval struct. This makes the select hang > > until I/O is available on one or more of the fd's. > > > > If you are getting a blocking select, then the only possible cause > > is that the scheduler believes that there are no other threads in > > a read-to-run state, and therefore makes the blocking call instead > > of call converting it to a polling call which, if not input is > > pending, is followed by a threads context switch. > > > > > > Perhaps you are both read and write selecting the pipe fd, in two > > seperate threads? > > > > In general, write selecting is a bad idea. > > > > This may be a problem in the pipe code, or in the wrapping function > > in libc_r (unlikely). > > > > You could try using a POSIX domain socket instead of a pipe; it uses > > the same underlying code (man socketpair). If this also hangs, try > > using a real socket (AF_INET instead of AF_UNIX). > > > > Also, make sure you are not using fork(), since it interacts badly > > with threads. > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > --- > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Sergey S. Kosyakov > Date: 01-Feb-99 > Time: 08:44:42 > ---------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 05:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opi.flirtbox.ch ([62.48.0.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA17809 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:07:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oppermann@pipeline.ch) Received: (qmail 13909 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 13:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) (195.134.128.41) by opi.flirtbox.ch with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 13:07:22 -0000 Message-ID: <36B5A6EC.CD11C28D@pipeline.ch> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:06:52 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Casper CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-quetions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Patching Mail Server References: <36B581DE.EFCF61EE@acc.am> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Casper wrote: > > Hello all! > > Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? > What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? Qmail. I know, we did an LDAP integration into qmail: http://www.nrg4u.com > Thanx in advance. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 05:48:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22397 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22373 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id WAA25005; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:47:57 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B5B071.FF9467CA@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:47:29 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladavac Marino CC: "'Warner Losh'" , Andrew Kenneth Milton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: some weird C References: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D09752B@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ladavac Marino wrote: > > [ML] That is, if there is any *after*. Completely and utterly > destroying the machine, or better, electrocuting the programmer > would have been just as correct actions of the compiler. If it were running some sort of Windows, I wouldn't be the least surprised by this behavior, but I do truly expect FreeBSD to prevent a program from destroying the computer, not to mention electrocuting the user. Unless, of course, he is running as root, in which case he might as well deserve to be electrocuted after all... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 06:15:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24649 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:15:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24630; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:15:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA64082; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:15:04 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:15:04 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: The Hermit Hacker , Terry Lambert Subject: XMenu - adding ports to the desktop [was: From Slashdot...] Message-ID: <19990201161504.E3184@shale.csir.co.za> References: <80831.917849002@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <80831.917849002@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 10:03:22PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, [redirected to -hackers, bcc'd to -chat] On Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 10:03:22PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > It's really pretty simple - get a package included in packages/All (by > making it a port) which does nothing more than install some prototype > dotfiles for root, some collection of WMs and applications (all of > which can be done by @pkgdep'ing an existing package rather than > including the whole thing). Then it appears automatically in the > index, perhaps in a category of "canned package sets" or something, > and the user can add it just like any other package. man pkg_create > or RTFM bsd.port.mk's package rule for more info. :) I started work on designing an extension to the Ports collection, which would allow packages to add items to the desktop for various window managers. Below is my design document, but I've not started coding. In particular I'm a C++ hacker (and not much of one) and I think this might be a Perl job... Are there any people interested in helping code the XMenu system described below? Especially any Perl hackers? Any comments would also be welcome. The syntax for the configuration files is very much a first draft, and any comments and ideas would be appreciated. I'm not a trained syntax writer... Regards, -Jeremy XMenu ~~~~~ An X11 window manager configuration tool Jeremy Lea, 1999 Purpose ~~~~~~~ The purpose of XMenu will be to provide an active link between the FreeBSD ports collection and various X11 window managers. When ports are installed or un-installed (or their packages), it will try to update the menu's presented to all of the users, in whatever window manager is being used, to reflect the changes in the system. XMenu will have configuration files which will allow the user to control which applications are installed/de-installed, where they are added to the menus and which icons should be used. These will be configurable for all WM's or for each one individually. XMenu will not aim to be a complete solution to automatic X11 desktops for FreeBSD, but will be aimed at the non-hacker who is not into manual maintenance. The configuration files should, however, be flexible enough to cater for a large percentage of the users. Architecture ~~~~~~~~~~~~ XMenu is broken into three parts. The first will be XMENU files in the ports /pkg directory, along with associated additions to bsd.port.mk and pkg_* to notify XMenu to update it's configuration. The second is a core module (XMenu) which will be responsible for managing the various ports registered, system and user configuration files and passing directives to WM specific backends. The WM specific backends will be responsible for parsing the records they are sent and either adding or removing them from the user's window maker configuration files. They are also responsible for passing the current configuration back to XMenu. XMENU files ~~~~~~~~~~~ The structure of the XMENU files will resemble this example (for the netscape port): WindowManager "wmaker" { Desktop "WWW" { Toolbar "WWW" { Item "Netscape" { Program "/usr/local/bin/netscape" Icon "." override Options minimise, autostart } } } } WindowManager "*" { Desktop "*" { Menu "." Category "Applications"."WWW" Group "Netscape" { MenuItem "Communicator 4.08" { Program "/usr/local/bin/netscape" Icon "." override } } } } This might imply the XMenu should attempt to install netscape under Applications->WWW->Netscape on the default menu (implied by a "."), for all installed window managers and for all desktops. The icon used should be the default for netscape for that WM, and should always be used in place of the application supplied icon. For Window Maker it should additionally install netscape docked to the clip on the desktop WWW (if this exists) and auto-launch it minimised on startup. XMENU files would need to be added to each port which has programs which would normally be run under X. However, ports without such files would still function normally. The setup of these files would be the responsibility of the port maintainer, although some general guidelines as to defaults should be given. XMenu ~~~~~ This is the core program, which performs most of the logic involved with managing the addition and removal of items. It is a command line driven application, with the following options: -add : Causes XMenu to read and process the file /var/db/pkg//+XMENU. This would add this package to the default configuration. -remove : Causes XMenu to remove the package from the default configuration. -install : Allow XMenu to manage configuration for . This would involve the installation of default config files in /usr/X11R6/skel (which would be maintained as the default config) if called as root. If called as a user, install the files for to ${HOME}. This could be called as a final stage from all ports in x11-wm. -deinstall : Undo the work of install. -update: If called as root, resync the config files with /var/db/pkg/*. Maintenance option in case things get out of sync. If called as a user, update all of their config files. XMenu stores the following files: /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/windowmanagers List of installed windowmanagers. /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/packages List of installed packages. /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/config Configuration file. ~/.XMenu/... Same as above, user specific. The format of the configuration file will follow this example: WindowManager "wmaker" { Desktop "*" { Toolbar "WWW" { Item "*" { Ignore } } } Desktop "WWW" { Menu "*" { Group "Netscape" { Override Category "WWW" } } } } Package "xemacs*" { WindowManager "*" { Item "*" { Override Icon "~/pixmaps/elephant.xpm" } } } The configuration files must be able to perform ignore, override and add commands based on a three way filter: package, windowmanager and configuration item, with sub-filters for desktop, menu and toolbar. The task of XMenu is to merge the XMENU file passed by the package installation with these configuration options to generate a final configuration. Window Manager backends ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ These programs (named XMenu_) are responsible for the merging of XMenu information with the installed configuration files for the specific window manager. They will take the following arguments: -add : Causes XMenu_wm to read the XMENU file for from stdin, and make the changes to the config files -remove : Causes XMenu_wm to remove the package from the config files. -list: This would cause XMenu_wm to list the installed packages, as determined from the config files, to stdout. This option would be used for the purpose of syncing the configuration. XMenu_wm should leave some kind of comment in the configuration files for the windowmanager to indicate that the lines were added automatically and should include a magic string which includes the package name which generated the text which follows the comment. This will be a problem for window managers whose configuration files cannot contain comments. XMenu_wm should only attempt to edit records which it generated. Operation ~~~~~~~~~ The operation of XMenu for packages would be as follows: 1. On package install (pkg_add or make install), XMenu should be called, if installed and there is an XMENU file, with the -add option. 2. XMenu should then load the XMENU file, and the global and user configuration files. The rules listed should be applied to generate a final XMENU file which would then be passed via a pipe to the XMenu_wm programs for each installed window manager. 3. The XMenu_wm programs should update the window manager configuration files in /usr/X11R6/skel. Users should call 'XMenu -update' as part of their .xinitrc or .xsession file. Other modes of operation are fairly obvious. -- | "In this world of temptation, I will stand for what is right. --+-- With a heart of salvation, I will hold up the light. | If I live or if I die, if I laugh or if I cry, | in this world of temptation, I will stand." -Pam Thum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 06:29:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat0513.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.190.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26043 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05757; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:28:06 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:28:06 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Jeremy Lea cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: XMenu - adding ports to the desktop [was: From Slashdot...] In-Reply-To: <19990201161504.E3184@shale.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just read through this, and don't *quite* agree with how you have it spec'd out, or, at least, unless I'm misunderstanding it... The main problem I have is that, if I'm reading it right, every package ever installed on a system will auto-magically get added to my personal configuration? I like the XMenu concept, no problems there...I like the fact that any new package added to the system gets 'registered' to a central configuration file (don't we already do this?)...but I'd rather XMenu -update, from a users perspective, pop up with a GUI interface that allows the user to pick and choose what gets added to their personal configuration. Something that lists all packages, whether they are "installed" into their configuration or not, and let's them change that state... On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Jeremy Lea wrote: > Hi, > > [redirected to -hackers, bcc'd to -chat] > > On Sun, Jan 31, 1999 at 10:03:22PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > It's really pretty simple - get a package included in packages/All (by > > making it a port) which does nothing more than install some prototype > > dotfiles for root, some collection of WMs and applications (all of > > which can be done by @pkgdep'ing an existing package rather than > > including the whole thing). Then it appears automatically in the > > index, perhaps in a category of "canned package sets" or something, > > and the user can add it just like any other package. man pkg_create > > or RTFM bsd.port.mk's package rule for more info. :) > > I started work on designing an extension to the Ports collection, which > would allow packages to add items to the desktop for various window > managers. Below is my design document, but I've not started coding. In > particular I'm a C++ hacker (and not much of one) and I think this might be > a Perl job... > > Are there any people interested in helping code the XMenu system described > below? Especially any Perl hackers? Any comments would also be welcome. > The syntax for the configuration files is very much a first draft, and any > comments and ideas would be appreciated. I'm not a trained syntax writer... > > Regards, > -Jeremy > > XMenu > ~~~~~ > An X11 window manager configuration tool > Jeremy Lea, 1999 > > > Purpose > ~~~~~~~ > The purpose of XMenu will be to provide an active link between the > FreeBSD ports collection and various X11 window managers. When ports > are installed or un-installed (or their packages), it will try to update > the menu's presented to all of the users, in whatever window manager is > being used, to reflect the changes in the system. > > XMenu will have configuration files which will allow the user to control > which applications are installed/de-installed, where they are added to > the menus and which icons should be used. These will be configurable > for all WM's or for each one individually. > > XMenu will not aim to be a complete solution to automatic X11 desktops > for FreeBSD, but will be aimed at the non-hacker who is not into manual > maintenance. The configuration files should, however, be flexible > enough to cater for a large percentage of the users. > > > Architecture > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > XMenu is broken into three parts. The first will be XMENU files in the > ports /pkg directory, along with associated additions to bsd.port.mk and > pkg_* to notify XMenu to update it's configuration. The second is a > core module (XMenu) which will be responsible for managing the various > ports registered, system and user configuration files and passing > directives to WM specific backends. The WM specific backends will be > responsible for parsing the records they are sent and either adding or > removing them from the user's window maker configuration files. They > are also responsible for passing the current configuration back to > XMenu. > > > XMENU files > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > The structure of the XMENU files will resemble this example (for the > netscape port): > > WindowManager "wmaker" > { Desktop "WWW" > { Toolbar "WWW" > { Item "Netscape" > { Program "/usr/local/bin/netscape" > Icon "." override > Options minimise, autostart > } > } > } > } > WindowManager "*" > { Desktop "*" > { Menu "." > Category "Applications"."WWW" > Group "Netscape" > { MenuItem "Communicator 4.08" > { Program "/usr/local/bin/netscape" > Icon "." override > } > } > } > } > > This might imply the XMenu should attempt to install netscape under > Applications->WWW->Netscape on the default menu (implied by a "."), for > all installed window managers and for all desktops. The icon used > should be the default for netscape for that WM, and should always be > used in place of the application supplied icon. > > For Window Maker it should additionally install netscape docked to the > clip on the desktop WWW (if this exists) and auto-launch it minimised on > startup. > > XMENU files would need to be added to each port which has programs which > would normally be run under X. However, ports without such files would > still function normally. The setup of these files would be the > responsibility of the port maintainer, although some general guidelines > as to defaults should be given. > > > XMenu > ~~~~~ > This is the core program, which performs most of the logic involved with > managing the addition and removal of items. It is a command line driven > application, with the following options: > > -add : > Causes XMenu to read and process the file > /var/db/pkg//+XMENU. This would add this package to the > default configuration. > > -remove : > Causes XMenu to remove the package from the default configuration. > > -install : > Allow XMenu to manage configuration for . This would > involve the installation of default config files in /usr/X11R6/skel > (which would be maintained as the default config) if called as root. > If called as a user, install the files for to > ${HOME}. > > This could be called as a final stage from all ports in x11-wm. > > -deinstall : > Undo the work of install. > > -update: > If called as root, resync the config files with /var/db/pkg/*. > Maintenance option in case things get out of sync. > > If called as a user, update all of their config files. > > XMenu stores the following files: > /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/windowmanagers > List of installed windowmanagers. > /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/packages > List of installed packages. > /usr/X11R6/skel/.XMenu/config > Configuration file. > ~/.XMenu/... > Same as above, user specific. > > The format of the configuration file will follow this example: > > WindowManager "wmaker" > { Desktop "*" > { Toolbar "WWW" > { Item "*" > { Ignore > } > } > } > Desktop "WWW" > { Menu "*" > { Group "Netscape" > { Override Category "WWW" > } > } > } > } > Package "xemacs*" > { WindowManager "*" > { Item "*" > { Override Icon "~/pixmaps/elephant.xpm" > } > } > } > > The configuration files must be able to perform ignore, override and add > commands based on a three way filter: package, windowmanager and > configuration item, with sub-filters for desktop, menu and toolbar. The > task of XMenu is to merge the XMENU file passed by the package > installation with these configuration options to generate a final > configuration. > > > Window Manager backends > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > These programs (named XMenu_) are responsible for the > merging of XMenu information with the installed configuration files for > the specific window manager. They will take the following arguments: > > -add : > Causes XMenu_wm to read the XMENU file for from stdin, and > make the changes to the config files > > -remove : > Causes XMenu_wm to remove the package from the config files. > > -list: > This would cause XMenu_wm to list the installed packages, as > determined from the config files, to stdout. This option would be > used for the purpose of syncing the configuration. > > XMenu_wm should leave some kind of comment in the configuration files > for the windowmanager to indicate that the lines were added > automatically and should include a magic string which includes the > package name which generated the text which follows the comment. This > will be a problem for window managers whose configuration files cannot > contain comments. XMenu_wm should only attempt to edit records which it > generated. > > > Operation > ~~~~~~~~~ > The operation of XMenu for packages would be as follows: > > 1. On package install (pkg_add or make install), XMenu should be > called, if installed and there is an XMENU file, with the -add > option. > > 2. XMenu should then load the XMENU file, and the global and user > configuration files. The rules listed should be applied to generate > a final XMENU file which would then be passed via a pipe to the > XMenu_wm programs for each installed window manager. > > 3. The XMenu_wm programs should update the window manager configuration > files in /usr/X11R6/skel. > > Users should call 'XMenu -update' as part of their .xinitrc or .xsession > file. Other modes of operation are fairly obvious. > > -- > | "In this world of temptation, I will stand for what is right. > --+-- With a heart of salvation, I will hold up the light. > | If I live or if I die, if I laugh or if I cry, > | in this world of temptation, I will stand." -Pam Thum > Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 06:56:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:56:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01342 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:56:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id PAA07030 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:56:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id F29501575; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:51:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:51:43 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Patching Mail Server Message-ID: <19990201155143.A7554@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <36B581DE.EFCF61EE@acc.am> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <36B581DE.EFCF61EE@acc.am>; from Casper on Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 02:28:46PM +0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5026 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Casper: > Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? > What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? Postfix. The source is well written and commented. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #69: Mon Jan 18 02:02:12 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 08:25:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:25:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA10621 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA15103; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:14:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:14:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Philips Coney board: anyone doing this? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Philips has a reference DTV board using among other things the SAA7146A. Anyone looking at this? It's kind of an interesting card. Thanks ron Ron Minnich |"There is no neat distinction between operating system rminnich@sarnoff.com | software and the software that runs on top of it" (609)-734-3120 | Jim Allchin, Microsoft. [[[ No Comment ... ]]] ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 10:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:33:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25540 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) From: jin@george.lbl.gov Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.9.2/8.9.2) id KAA19753 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:33:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:33:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902011833.KAA19753@george.lbl.gov> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Alpha-2100 server support Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic on installation: FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? Thanks, -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 12:23:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10741 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:23:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10736 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA11816; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902012021.MAA11816@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Drew Baxter Cc: Terry Lambert , patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:21:58 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:59:55 -0500 Drew Baxter wrote: > >You could always run NetBSD on your iMac :-) > > Don't have an iMac :) I wouldn't but an iMac to run UNIX either, I'd just > get a PowerMac G3 (PowerPC 750-based) job. It's unfortunate FreeBSD does > not have a PPC port (not even in the works I don't think), because I'd > imagine it'd perform rather well. Oh... okay... run it on your G3 then :-) -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18061 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18050 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA87455; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:23:16 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:23:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: jin@george.lbl.gov cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: <199902011833.KAA19753@george.lbl.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 jin@george.lbl.gov wrote: > Hi, > > I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic > on installation: > > FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) > > I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? > Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? Adding support for a platform really needs one of the kernel developers to have access to the machine to develop (or port) and test the low-level drivers for that machine. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18596 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:29:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18588 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:28:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA31565 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:07:52 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA01212; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:09:12 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902011909.UAA01212@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: <199902011833.KAA19753@george.lbl.gov> from "jin@george.lbl.gov" at "Feb 1, 99 10:33:24 am" To: jin@george.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:09:12 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As jin@george.lbl.gov wrote... > I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic > on installation: > > FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) > > I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? If someone writes the machine specific bits to it (or ports them from netbsd/axp if they already support the 2100) > Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? Take a look at NetBSD and find out if there is already support for the 2100. If there is, take a close look and start porting ;-) You will need a machine that is already supported by FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff for you. I went through this exercise a couple of months ago with my Aspen Alpine/EB64+ and it was not extremely difficult (NetBSD/axp was a great help, as where a couple of people on the freebsd-alpha mailing list. Hi Doug, Hi Drew ;-)) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19917 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) From: jin@george.lbl.gov Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA23357; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902012139.NAA23357@george.lbl.gov> To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As wilko@yedi.iaf.nl wrote... > > I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic > > on installation: > > > > FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) > > > > I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? > > If someone writes the machine specific bits to it (or ports them from > netbsd/axp if they already support the 2100) > > > Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? > > Take a look at NetBSD and find out if there is already support for the > 2100. If there is, take a close look and start porting ;-) You will > need a machine that is already supported by FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff > for you. We have four Alpha-2100 servers, but no other FreeBSD supported DEC/axp. I have no problem for writing assembly code or doing kernel development, but it sounds like I need a running FreeBSD/axp at least. I guess there must be a way to compile the code under DEC/Alpha system to development it. Otherwise, how is the first FreeBSD/axp coming up? Is possible to use a DEC/Alpha instead of a FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff for FreeBSD? -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20533 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20526 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA29221; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:42:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma029217; Mon, 1 Feb 99 13:42:06 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA02960; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:42:06 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199902012142.NAA02960@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: select and threads again In-Reply-To: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D09752C@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> from Ladavac Marino at "Feb 1, 99 01:09:51 pm" To: mladavac@metropolitan.at (Ladavac Marino) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: ks@osi.ru, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ladavac Marino writes: > > There was no write selecting at all (I guess), but was exceptional > > conditions > > selecting. The socketpair() fails in the same manner. I will try > > AF_INET socket > > later, because it is needed to make much more changes in ILU code. > > > [ML] Isn't an exception only generated for Out-Of-Band data? > Can you have > these messages in a pipe at all? (sorry, no manpages nor > sources here-- Exceptions on sockets only happen as a result of TCP OOB data, yes. No other reason. I was surprised when I learned this, but it's true :-) -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:44:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20703 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:44:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA60892; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:43:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990201164304.03d26f10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:43:52 -0500 To: Jason Thorpe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: Terry Lambert , patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902012021.MAA11816@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:21 PM 2/1/99 , Jason Thorpe wrote: >On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:59:55 -0500 > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > >You could always run NetBSD on your iMac :-) > > > > Don't have an iMac :) I wouldn't but an iMac to run UNIX either, I'd just > > get a PowerMac G3 (PowerPC 750-based) job. It's unfortunate FreeBSD does > > not have a PPC port (not even in the works I don't think), because I'd > > imagine it'd perform rather well. > >Oh... okay... run it on your G3 then :-) Don't have a G3 either. We're all Pentium-class equipment here. :) I have a PowerPC 603E at work (Performa 6200), but it's in a class. at the time I almost ran MKLinux on it, BUT since it lacks 'open firmware' it won't work. I was playing the 'wouldn't it be nice...' card more than anything.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:47:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:47:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.toti.est.is (toti.est.is [194.144.208.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21085 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from asus (asus.toti.est.is [192.168.255.2]) by gateway.toti.est.is (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA94902 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:46:07 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <36B68CC6.A86B215E@est.is> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:27:34 -0800 From: Thordur Ivarsson Reply-To: thivars@est.is X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: What is wrong in building kernel X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to build new kernel and this is what I get loading kernel syscons.o: In function `scvidprobe': syscons.o(.text+0x231): undefined reference to `vid_configure' syscons.o(.text+0x24e): undefined reference to `vid_allocate' syscons.o(.text+0x26b): undefined reference to `vid_get_adapter' syscons.o: In function `sckbdprobe': syscons.o(.text+0x29a): undefined reference to `kbd_configure' syscons.o(.text+0x2be): undefined reference to `kbd_allocate' syscons.o(.text+0x2db): undefined reference to `kbd_get_keyboard' . . lot of deleted lines . . syscons.o(.text+0x5aa8): more undefined references to `vidsw' follow *** Error code 1 Stop. This happens with sources cvsup-ed today but also previously To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 13:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22164 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA240904935; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:02:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:02:15 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: thivars@est.is Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: What is wrong in building kernel In-Reply-To: <36B68CC6.A86B215E@est.is> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Thordur Ivarsson wrote: > I am trying to build new kernel and this is what I get > > loading kernel > syscons.o: In function `scvidprobe': > syscons.o(.text+0x231): undefined reference to `vid_configure' > syscons.o(.text+0x24e): undefined reference to `vid_allocate' > syscons.o(.text+0x26b): undefined reference to `vid_get_adapter' [[SNIP]] http://www.FreeBSD.org/~yokoya/sc_update.txt would help you, at least that's what I heard from /usr/src/UPDATING - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 14:29:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:29:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26886 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12331 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199902012228.OAA12331@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B52323.FE27286D@newsguy.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:44:35 +0900 >From: "Daniel C. Sobral" >Curt Sampson wrote: >> One interesting thing you can do with this is dump your own script, >> `foo', into the directory which says `x, y and z are all dependent >> on me.' Then you can start or stop foo, and that would take care >> of starting and stopping x, y and z. This will let you emulate SysV >> run levels, but also provide a lot more flexability. >Yeah, and having to change my ppp dial on demand script everytime I >add something that depends on it. Scripts shouldn't have to be >changed. That's the main benefit of FreeBSD's rc.conf. So switch the logic: the "foo" script should be able to tell a sufficiently interested inquirer what services it depends on. If some of those have additional dependencies... well, I think we know how to do transitive closure on such dependency graphs. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 15:24:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04279 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04273 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 107Si3-0001M1-00; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:24:51 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA60809 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:25:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902012325.QAA60809@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Comments on the following patch Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:25:35 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The following patch makes it possible to override MACHINE_ARCH in the same way that we override MACHINE. This is needed for some cross building environments. I have lifted this from OpenBSD's make, but I didn't investigate its origin further. This should have no impact on most people as MACHINE_ARCH will be undefined, or defined to the current machine arcitecture. This allows me to do a make cross-tools TARGET=arc for the OpenBSD tree of today. Well I needed to make a minor hack to the OpenBSD tree, which isn't relevant here... Comments? Warner Index: main.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/imp/FreeBSD/CVS/src/usr.bin/make/main.c,v retrieving revision 1.29 diff -u -r1.29 main.c --- main.c 1998/11/15 05:55:58 1.29 +++ main.c 1999/02/01 23:11:14 @@ -449,6 +449,7 @@ char obpath[MAXPATHLEN + 1]; char cdpath[MAXPATHLEN + 1]; char *machine = getenv("MACHINE"); + char *machine_arch = getenv("MACHINE_ARCH"); Lst sysMkPath; /* Path of sys.mk */ char *cp = NULL, *start; /* avoid faults on read-only strings */ @@ -528,6 +529,14 @@ #endif } + if (!machine_arch) { +#ifndef MACHINE_ARCH + machine_arch = "unknown"; +#else + machine_arch = MACHINE_ARCH; +#endif + } + /* * The object directory location is determined using the * following order of preference: @@ -626,9 +635,7 @@ Var_Set(MAKEFLAGS, "", VAR_GLOBAL); Var_Set("MFLAGS", "", VAR_GLOBAL); Var_Set("MACHINE", machine, VAR_GLOBAL); -#ifdef MACHINE_ARCH - Var_Set("MACHINE_ARCH", MACHINE_ARCH, VAR_GLOBAL); -#endif + Var_Set("MACHINE_ARCH", machine_arch, VAR_GLOBAL); /* * First snag any flags out of the MAKE environment variable. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 17:25:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18246 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18241 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA17828; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:25:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA12695; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:25:00 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id SAA21471; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:24:59 -0700 Message-ID: <36B653EB.AEEA99AA@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:24:59 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902012228.OAA12331@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Wolfskill wrote: > > Daniel C. Sobral muttered: > > >Yeah, and having to change my ppp dial on demand script everytime I > >add something that depends on it. Scripts shouldn't have to be > >changed. That's the main benefit of FreeBSD's rc.conf. If you're using user-mode PPP, you certainly wouldn't have to change the script, just which target you call in the PPP configuration. > So switch the logic: the "foo" script should be able to tell a > sufficiently interested inquirer what services it depends on. I thought this was obvious, thus the long discussion about tools to manage dependency graphs. > If some of those have additional dependencies... well, I think we know > how to do transitive closure on such dependency graphs. Even if "we" don't, tsort does. Ain't UNIX wunnerful? -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 18:02:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21348 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21339 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00789; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:31:55 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902012228.OAA12331@pau-amma.whistle.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:31:55 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: David Wolfskill Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 01-Feb-99 David Wolfskill wrote: > So switch the logic: the "foo" script should be able to tell a > sufficiently interested inquirer what services it depends on. > > If some of those have additional dependencies... well, I think we know > how to do transitive closure on such dependency graphs. Hmmm.. how about getting the actual knobs committed and worry about the dependancy stuff later? :) The problem with this stuff seems to be that everyone gets stuck on the 'ooh, the dependancy stuff will suck' while not realising that 80% of the time it won't be needed.. Perhaps we could also start making the files written into $PREFIX/etc/rc.d follow this standard as a start, and then do the /etc/rc* stuff. Just my $0.02 of course. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 21:03:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09860 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09853 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA08098; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA13788; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:03:30 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: spork Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG spork wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, John Polstra wrote: > >> At least one commercial company employs CVSup to do field upgrades >> of their FreeBSD-based product. In that application, CVSup upgrades >> the entire root and /usr filesystems. > > Have you seen any example-laden FAQs on something like this? You've > piqued my curiousity... I don't know the full details of how they've done it. But my understanding is that they've simply made one or two big collections representing the filesystems. CVSup takes great pains to update all files atomically, so it normally wouldn't cause problems to upgrade a running system. Obviously you have to carefully think through all the "what ifs", and be prepared to recover from them. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 21:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10890 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10883 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:11:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA29187; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:11:40 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199902020511.XAA29187@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 'cpdup' program, and question In-Reply-To: from John Polstra at "Feb 1, 1999 9: 3:30 pm" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:11:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: spork@super-g.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > spork wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, John Polstra wrote: > > > >> At least one commercial company employs CVSup to do field upgrades > >> of their FreeBSD-based product. In that application, CVSup upgrades > >> the entire root and /usr filesystems. > > > > Have you seen any example-laden FAQs on something like this? You've > > piqued my curiousity... > > I don't know the full details of how they've done it. But my > understanding is that they've simply made one or two big collections > representing the filesystems. CVSup takes great pains to update all > files atomically, so it normally wouldn't cause problems to upgrade a > running system. Obviously you have to carefully think through all the > "what ifs", and be prepared to recover from them. > > John I'm also thinking about using cvsup for field updates in an embedded product. (either by modem, or by cd)... If anyone has anything to share, i'd love to hear too. :) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 21:33:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13303 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13283 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04429; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:32:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B68DFA.C14D590E@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:32:42 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel O'Connor" CC: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 01-Feb-99 David Wolfskill wrote: > > So switch the logic: the "foo" script should be able to tell a > > sufficiently interested inquirer what services it depends on. > > > > If some of those have additional dependencies... well, I think we know > > how to do transitive closure on such dependency graphs. > > Hmmm.. how about getting the actual knobs committed and worry about the dependancy stuff > later? :) > > The problem with this stuff seems to be that everyone gets stuck on the 'ooh, the > dependancy stuff will suck' while not realising that 80% of the time it won't be needed.. The dependency stuff is the only reason for doing this; it's the shaft the knobs attach to. It's been pointed out many times before that doing it without the "dependency stuff" is of little value. > Perhaps we could also start making the files written into $PREFIX/etc/rc.d follow this > standard as a start, and then do the /etc/rc* stuff. Now that's a sparkling idea. I'm not sure we'll need the $PREFIX/etc/rc.d directories anymore, though, they were mostly a hack caused by our severe lack of an /etc/rc.d directory. I guess it won't add much to the complexity to retain them, but it won't really work to do it partially. I could, for instance, write a script for my Perforce server in a couple of minutes, but since it depends on "network", it's just not really going to work without the system stuff, too. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 21:51:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15156 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:51:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09730; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:45 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36B68DFA.C14D590E@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:20:45 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Wolfskill Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-Feb-99 Wes Peters wrote: > The dependency stuff is the only reason for doing this; it's the shaft > the knobs attach to. It's been pointed out many times before that doing > it without the "dependency stuff" is of little value. Oh, well that comes as a suprise to me :) I really like the idea of having scripts to call to handle start/stop/reconf/status of servers. The dependancy stuff is nice but its going to take some thinking about, whereas the scripts are a nice (useful IMHO :) place to start. > Now that's a sparkling idea. I'm not sure we'll need the $PREFIX/etc/rc.d > directories anymore, though, they were mostly a hack caused by our severe > lack of an /etc/rc.d directory. I guess it won't add much to the complexity Yes, perhaps. The idea of having the user installed stuff all in /usr/local is appealing though. > to retain them, but it won't really work to do it partially. I could, for > instance, write a script for my Perforce server in a couple of minutes, but > since it depends on "network", it's just not really going to work without > the system stuff, too. Yes, but say you tweak a config file, you just run the script to reconf since you know the network is up. This would still be nice for newbies even without the dependancy stuff. (The idea being that the dependancy code just calls the scripts which are already in place) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 22:11:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17421 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04505; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B695B3.E00558DC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:05:39 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel O'Connor" CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 02-Feb-99 Wes Peters wrote: > > The dependency stuff is the only reason for doing this; it's the shaft > > the knobs attach to. It's been pointed out many times before that doing > > it without the "dependency stuff" is of little value. > > Oh, well that comes as a suprise to me :) > I really like the idea of having scripts to call to handle start/stop/reconf/status of > servers. The dependancy stuff is nice but its going to take some thinking about, whereas > the scripts are a nice (useful IMHO :) place to start. Well, then get started. Hacking up rc.* into rc.inet, rc.nfs, etc. should be pretty straightforward work. It's just not all that hard. ;^) > > Now that's a sparkling idea. I'm not sure we'll need the $PREFIX/etc/rc.d > > directories anymore, though, they were mostly a hack caused by our severe > > lack of an /etc/rc.d directory. I guess it won't add much to the complexity > Yes, perhaps. The idea of having the user installed stuff all in /usr/local is appealing > though. And any X-related stuff in /usr/XFree86/etc. As I said, it really wouldn't add much to the complexity either. > > to retain them, but it won't really work to do it partially. I could, for > > instance, write a script for my Perforce server in a couple of minutes, but > > since it depends on "network", it's just not really going to work without > > the system stuff, too. > Yes, but say you tweak a config file, you just run the script to reconf since you know > the network is up. This would still be nice for newbies even without the dependancy stuff. > (The idea being that the dependancy code just calls the scripts which are already in > place) That was what drove my idea to use a makefile; you could write the start/stop scripts and express the dependencies in the makefile; the start/stop scripts would be useful on their own. The disadvantage is that you now have to edit the Makefile to add or remove something; which we were trying to avoid. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 22:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20799 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:44:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00681; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:13:40 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36B695B3.E00558DC@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:13:42 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-Feb-99 Wes Peters wrote: > > the scripts are a nice (useful IMHO :) place to start. > Well, then get started. Hacking up rc.* into rc.inet, rc.nfs, > etc. should be pretty straightforward work. It's just not all > that hard. ;^) Bah, I new someone would say that :) I just though that since someone seemed to be interested in doing it, then why don't they start with this, and then do the dependancy stuff later.. That way I get the benefits NOW =) > > (The idea being that the dependancy code just calls the scripts which are already in > > place) > That was what drove my idea to use a makefile; you could write the > start/stop scripts and express the dependencies in the makefile; the > start/stop scripts would be useful on their own. The disadvantage is > that you now have to edit the Makefile to add or remove something; > which we were trying to avoid. Yes, which could be problematic to do automatically :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 23:29:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28171 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27763 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:27:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (root@shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04966 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:27:14 +0300 (MSK) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by shuttle.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06671 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:28:14 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@shuttle.svib.ru) Message-Id: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru Subject: YP-like mySQL thing X-URL: http://freebsd.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:28:13 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? Alex. -- Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 23:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA28241 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA03670 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:05:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id XAA02931; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:01:57 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: <199902012139.NAA23357@george.lbl.gov> from "jin@george.lbl.gov" at "Feb 1, 99 01:39:21 pm" To: jin@george.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:01:57 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As jin@george.lbl.gov wrote... > As wilko@yedi.iaf.nl wrote... > > > > I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic > > > on installation: > > > > > > FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) > > > > > > I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? > > > > If someone writes the machine specific bits to it (or ports them from > > netbsd/axp if they already support the 2100) > > > > > Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? > > > > Take a look at NetBSD and find out if there is already support for the > > 2100. If there is, take a close look and start porting ;-) You will > > need a machine that is already supported by FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff > > for you. > > We have four Alpha-2100 servers, but no other FreeBSD supported DEC/axp. Hmm, that is a bit of a problem. > I have no problem for writing assembly code or doing kernel development, You should not need assembly unless you are really unlucky. > but it sounds like I need a running FreeBSD/axp at least. I guess there > must be a way to compile the code under DEC/Alpha system to development > it. Otherwise, how is the first FreeBSD/axp coming up? > > Is possible to use a DEC/Alpha instead of a FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff > for FreeBSD? I'm guessing, but I think Freebsd/axp started off by building things under NetBSD/axp and not using OSF-1 ehh, D-Unix, eeh True64 Unix (or whatever it is called these days). Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 1 23:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01444 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01431 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02665; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:48:28 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B6ADCA.6464C810@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:48:27 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Povolotsky wrote: > Hello! > > I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. > > I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > I am very interesting in it. Actually, I need getpwent and getgrent to look at PostgreSQL database. But it is very similar to mySQL in the way of function calls. And it is much easier to change your code slightly than the original libc code. About dynamic loading lib*.so from libc.so - I have the same question. It would be nice if FreeBSD has an abstract layer for getpwent/getgrent, similar to PAM in the concept (you can name it "Pluggable Authorization Modules" :-) Are there any plans of implementing this in 4.0? -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04595 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04581 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA20994; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:12:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B62F2F.99B407F0@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:48:15 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902012228.OAA12331@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On a more humorous note... David Wolfskill wrote: > > So switch the logic: the "foo" script should be able to tell a > sufficiently interested inquirer what services it depends on. Yeah, but how would you qualify "sufficiently"? For instance, would it be enough to ask "please", or would the interested party have to beg on their knees? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05352 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:19:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05343 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:19:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03095; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:10:50 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B6B309.DCD9E2F0@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:10:49 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anton Krasovsky CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020803.KAA09220@pekod.trans-m-radio.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anton Krasovsky wrote: > It will be realy nice to see. Also please explain me: does FreeBSD > support PAM? I don't have anything like this (3.0-RELEASE) but I saw > some letters in maillist mentioned PAM like alreay implemented feature. > PAM works for me just fine in login and xdm (passwd authentication) in RELENG_3. Although I never tried another schemes, I think they should work. -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:29:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:29:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06973 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA01767; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:33:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:33:22 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Konstantin Chuguev cc: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-Reply-To: <36B6ADCA.6464C810@urc.ac.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Konstantin Chuguev wrote: > > Hello! > > > > I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. > > > > I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > > rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > > libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > > > I am very interesting in it. Actually, I need getpwent and getgrent to look at > PostgreSQL database. > But it is very similar to mySQL in the way of function calls. And it is much easier > to change your code slightly than the original libc code. > > About dynamic loading lib*.so from libc.so - I have the same question. > > It would be nice if FreeBSD has an abstract layer for getpwent/getgrent, similar to > PAM in the concept (you can name it "Pluggable Authorization Modules" :-) Are > there any plans of implementing this in 4.0? i think 3.0-release and later has pam. man pam -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07777 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (root@shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29893; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:34:30 +0300 (MSK) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by shuttle.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08939; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:30 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@shuttle.svib.ru) Message-Id: <199902020835.LAA08939@shuttle.svib.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 03:33:22 EST." Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru X-URL: http://freebsd.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:35:28 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wr ites: >i think 3.0-release and later has pam. [11:34] shuttle:/usr/ports > uname -a FreeBSD shuttle.svib.ru 3.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE #2: Fri Jan 22 15:32:01 MSK 1999 root@shuttle.svib.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/MTKERNEL i386 [11:34] shuttle:/usr/ports > man pam No manual entry for pam Alex. -- Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:43:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08988 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08978 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA01796; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:47:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:47:28 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Alex Povolotsky cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-Reply-To: <199902020835.LAA08939@shuttle.svib.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Alex Povolotsky wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wr > ites: > > >i think 3.0-release and later has pam. > > [11:34] shuttle:/usr/ports > uname -a > FreeBSD shuttle.svib.ru 3.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE #2: Fri Jan 22 15:32:01 MSK 1999 root@shuttle.svib.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/MTKERNEL i386 > [11:34] shuttle:/usr/ports > man pam > No manual entry for pam oops, then I guess a later version :) CVS log for src/etc/pam.conf 1.1 Fri Nov 20 23:20:01 1998 UTC by jdp CVS Tags: RELENG_3_BP, HEAD, RELENG_3 -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:44:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09143 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:44:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03928; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:43:44 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B6BABF.EA062592@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:43:43 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Konstantin Chuguev wrote: > > > > Hello! > > > > > > I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. > > > > > > I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > > > rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > > > libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > > > > > > I am very interesting in it. Actually, I need getpwent and getgrent to look at > > PostgreSQL database. > > But it is very similar to mySQL in the way of function calls. And it is much easier > > to change your code slightly than the original libc code. > > > > About dynamic loading lib*.so from libc.so - I have the same question. > > > > It would be nice if FreeBSD has an abstract layer for getpwent/getgrent, similar to > > PAM in the concept (you can name it "Pluggable Authorization Modules" :-) Are > > there any plans of implementing this in 4.0? > > i think 3.0-release and later has pam. > > man pam > No. That's another thing. Using PAM, I can authenticate a user, i.e. allow or disallow him to enter the system, and I have to use PAM API explicitly. login, su, xdm do this way. What is proposed, is to extend the existing mechanism of storing UNIX user information (all /etc/master.passwd stuff like uid, gid, home_dir etc.). Now you can use only /etc/[master.]passwd and YP (NIS). Someone would like to use a DBMS like mySQL or PostgreSQL for that purposes as well. Technically, it could be done by inserting an abstract layer in few files of libc, namely getpwent.c and getgrent.c, instead of hardcoding YP requests to a YP-server. The one problem is that DBMS API requires using libraries which are not in the FreeBSD distribution, only in ports. And one needs to avoid linking such libraries explicitly for every object file using getpwent etc. -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 00:57:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11060 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA10867; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:57:56 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:57:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: jin@george.lbl.gov cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: <199902012139.NAA23357@george.lbl.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 jin@george.lbl.gov wrote: > As wilko@yedi.iaf.nl wrote... > > > > I tried to install FreeBSD SNAP on our Alpha-2100 server, but got panic > > > on installation: > > > > > > FreeBSD does not yet support system type 9 (ST_DEC_2100_A500) > > > > > > I'd like to know if this type machine will be supported in the future? > > > > If someone writes the machine specific bits to it (or ports them from > > netbsd/axp if they already support the 2100) > > > > > Is there anything we can do to help supporting this type machines? > > > > Take a look at NetBSD and find out if there is already support for the > > 2100. If there is, take a close look and start porting ;-) You will > > need a machine that is already supported by FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff > > for you. > > We have four Alpha-2100 servers, but no other FreeBSD supported DEC/axp. > I have no problem for writing assembly code or doing kernel development, > but it sounds like I need a running FreeBSD/axp at least. I guess there > must be a way to compile the code under DEC/Alpha system to development > it. Otherwise, how is the first FreeBSD/axp coming up? > > Is possible to use a DEC/Alpha instead of a FreeBSD/axp to compile stuff > for FreeBSD? It might be easier to install NetBSD on one of the servers and use that to build FreeBSD kernels. This works fairly well as long as you use FreeBSD's make and edit the Makefile to include '-U__NetBSD__ -D__FreeBSD__=3' in the CFLAGS. If you can get one of the other servers to netboot from the NetBSD box, this would make an ideal development setup. I guess OSF1 could be used similarly but you would need to install gcc on it first. I really doubt that a non-gnu compiler could compile our kernel without some work. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 01:06:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12689 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA21006; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:12:31 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B6ADB3.6D6F5247@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:48:03 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902012228.OAA12331@pau-amma.whistle.com> <36B653EB.AEEA99AA@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > > Daniel C. Sobral muttered: > > > > >Yeah, and having to change my ppp dial on demand script everytime I > > >add something that depends on it. Scripts shouldn't have to be > > >changed. That's the main benefit of FreeBSD's rc.conf. > > If you're using user-mode PPP, you certainly wouldn't have to change > the script, just which target you call in the PPP configuration. The suggestion was to have each service's script know what depends on it. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 01:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA17512 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:53:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 107cDb-0001iT-00; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:34:03 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA79458; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:34:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902020934.CAA79458@harmony.village.org> To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support Cc: jin@george.lbl.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:01:57 +0100." <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 02:34:51 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes: : I'm guessing, but I think Freebsd/axp started off by building things : under NetBSD/axp and not using OSF-1 ehh, D-Unix, eeh True64 Unix (or : whatever it is called these days). Kinda. I did try to make FreeBSD/alpha build under OSF-1, but there were many problems. It could be done, but needed many compatibility routines to make it even a remote possibility. I punted. This was before John Birrell's heroic efforts, however. One could likely get FreeBSD/alpha building on osf-1 (assuming hand built build tools) if the cross building support for FreeBSD was a little better. It isn't an out of the box thing, as far as I know. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 02:21:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20761 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20756 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by nlsystems.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA12492; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:21:43 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:21:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Warner Losh cc: Wilko Bulte , jin@george.lbl.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: <199902020934.CAA79458@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes: > : I'm guessing, but I think Freebsd/axp started off by building things > : under NetBSD/axp and not using OSF-1 ehh, D-Unix, eeh True64 Unix (or > : whatever it is called these days). > > Kinda. I did try to make FreeBSD/alpha build under OSF-1, but there > were many problems. It could be done, but needed many compatibility > routines to make it even a remote possibility. I punted. This was > before John Birrell's heroic efforts, however. > > One could likely get FreeBSD/alpha building on osf-1 (assuming hand > built build tools) if the cross building support for FreeBSD was a > little better. It isn't an out of the box thing, as far as I know. If all you are building is a kernel, life is a *lot* easier. Building a userland is hard though; I'm eternally grateful for John's NetBSD cross-build solution it made my life so much easier when I was first bootstrapping a native FreeBSD/alpha system. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 04:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:15:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04159 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:15:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (pmdialin4.ics.com [140.186.40.178]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id HAA03671 Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:15:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B700D2.41C67EA6@ics.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:42:42 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > > To be recognized by ldconfig, ldconfig for ELF should just go away. > an ELF shared library must have a name > that ends with ".so." followed by exactly one version number, like > this: > > libfoo.so.12 > On other ELF systems (since I haven't looked that closely at FreeBSD's ELF implementation) the version is a string. The string may have any value, e.g. "foo", "a-really-long-and-silly-string" or "3". The linker doesn't care, it merely records the fully qualified name of the library, including the version string, in the program's NEEDED. The run-time loader doesn't care, it loads the exact library by name, as recorded in the program's NEEDED. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 06:09:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17171 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04868; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:21 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: Wes Peters cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B695B3.E00558DC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > That was what drove my idea to use a makefile; you could write the > start/stop scripts and express the dependencies in the makefile; the > start/stop scripts would be useful on their own. The disadvantage is > that you now have to edit the Makefile to add or remove something; > which we were trying to avoid. Let me suggest that we "indirect" the script files one level (ala autoconfig). For each package, we create .rc which has the guts of the scripts and the dependancies. When we add, delete, or change a package, we rerun the startup configurer which rewrites the actual scripts as needed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 06:29:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20138 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id OAA04701; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:29:22 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:29:22 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Alex Povolotsky Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing Message-ID: <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net> References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru>; from Alex Povolotsky on Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:28:13AM +0300 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-1273-607072 Fax: +44-1273-607073 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:28:13AM +0300, Alex Povolotsky wrote: > Hello! > > I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. > > I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? How do you get around the insecurity of mysql? i.e. any user on the system can pretend to be user root using the -u option to mysql. Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 06:36:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.linkdesign.com (relay.linkdesign.com [194.42.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21194 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:35:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com) From: Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com Received: from p2.office.linkdesign.com (office-access.linkdesign.com [194.42.131.135]) by relay.linkdesign.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA11277; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:33:17 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:36:47 +0200 (EET) Reply-To: Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com Organization: Buisnetco Telecommunications Ltd. To: Josef Karthauser Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why don't you use a password for root ??? On 02-Feb-99 Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 10:28:13AM +0300, Alex Povolotsky wrote: >> Hello! >> >> I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using >> mySQL. >> >> I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I >> rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick >> libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > How do you get around the insecurity of mysql? i.e. any user on the system > can pretend to be user root using the -u option to mysql. > > Joe > -- > Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? > Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) > Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, > joe@tao.org.uk] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com Date: 02-Feb-99 Time: 16:36:33 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 06:41:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21668 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:41:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13206; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:45:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199902021445.JAA13206@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:59:35 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:45:41 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG rkw@dataplex.net said: :- Actually, more than "on startup". You should be able to move from one :- environment to another at any time by changing the target. (eg run :- level) I think it is important to avoid conflating "configuration management" with "startup/shutdown" management. The SYSV run-levels do that and I think that is a great flaw. I'd like to separate these two things. So, for example, deciding whether to start PPP over your ISP or Ethernet over your office LAN would be a "configuration management" issue. Actually starting the system, given a particular configuration, would be a "startup/shutdown management" issue. That is not to say that the one wouldn't draw on the features of the other. For example, should you decide to switch from one configuration to another without restarting the system (by sleeping your laptop at the office and waking it up at home) you would presumably use the "startup/shutdown management" features to stop/start/restart the appropriate services to effect the switch to the new configuration. Keeping a strict demarcation between these two entities will result in a much simpler and thus understandable/maintainable implementation than a mongo-ronco-Makefile-prolog-rule-based-config-rewriting does-everyting tool. IMO. My proposal carefully addressed only the startup/shutdown management issues, leaving the configuration management issues to some other to-be-designed-in-the-future tool. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 07:02:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23240 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:02:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA23228 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.054 #1) id 107hJo-0003X8-00; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:00:48 +0600 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:00:47 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netware client 1.2beta1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > Woo, works fairly well for me. Was a bit slow with all the debuging > enabled. > > I'm seeing problems with the '.' directory disappearing. Oops, it just was well hiding :). And it seems to be fixed. Now I put that on ftp://ftp.butya.kz/pub/nwlib/ncplib.tar.gz. ncplib.tar.gz is a symlink to the latest version. -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 07:16:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24586 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id PAA14906; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:15:58 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:15:58 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Alex Povolotsky Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing Message-ID: <19990202151558.F84751@florence.pavilion.net> References: <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com on Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 04:36:47PM +0200 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-1273-607072 Fax: +44-1273-607073 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 04:36:47PM +0200, Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com wrote: > Why don't you use a password for root ??? Too much like lateral thinking ;) [doh!] Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 07:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26270 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15309; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:25:57 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B71904.461CE8DB@urc.ac.ru> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:25:57 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser CC: Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Alex Povolotsky Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net> <19990202151558.F84751@florence.pavilion.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 04:36:47PM +0200, Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com wrote: > > Why don't you use a password for root ??? > > Too much like lateral thinking ;) [doh!] > Not exactly :-) Of course, root should have its password in /etc/master.passwd. Other users shouldn't necessarily. For example, I need to maintain a database of users on an ISP site. I have to manage with lots of config files of various Internet services (POP/IMAP account, WWW account, dial-up, UUCP, UNIX shell, user's domain in DNS, ). With a single database, it is easy to reflect automatically information from the database tables to UNIX config files. Very easy user addition/deletion/change etc. -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 09:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11289 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:47:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16874 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:45:51 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199902021745.JAA16874@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B6ADB3.6D6F5247@newsguy.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:48:03 +0900 >From: "Daniel C. Sobral" >The suggestion was to have each service's script know what depends >on it. And it seems to me that this is backwards (because it becomes a maintenance issue). Consider Makefile dependencies: we list, for a given target, what that target depends on. Similarly, the given script should be able to say (if invoked with, for example, a "-dependencies" argument) what services it needs to be up in order to run. (A list echoed to standard output would seem ideal.) Thus, given a list of services to be brought up, it would be possible to ask each one what its list of dependencies is, and perform transitive closure on the list. It may be useful to cache the information in a file; in the usual case, I would expect it to be rare for a services dependencies to change unless one of the scripts in the (transitive closure of the) set of scripts needed to start it up has changed. (In the rare case where that is not the case, merely invalidate the cache. If the cache is implemented as a normal file, unlinking it should do the job rather effectively.) david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 09:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12267 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16952 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:52:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:52:55 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199902021752.JAA16952@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:13:42 +1030 (CST) >From: "Daniel O'Connor" >> That was what drove my idea to use a makefile; you could write the >> start/stop scripts and express the dependencies in the makefile; the >> start/stop scripts would be useful on their own. The disadvantage is >> that you now have to edit the Makefile to add or remove something; >> which we were trying to avoid. >Yes, which could be problematic to do automatically :) That is one respect in which the SysV approach is relatively easy: by blacing a (link to the) script in an appropriate directory with an appropriate name, it gets started/stopped at a (relatively) well-defined point in the run-level change. So to avoid tinkering with the insides of a Makefile, have whatever implementation is used read information about what services are wanted from a file or a directory. (The directory is relatively appealing, in that with a suitable implementation, it could be adequate to merely "touch" a file with a name of an appropriate pattern, and thus minimize the probability of clobbering another service. On the other hand, if it were a file, I'd always use RCS whenever I made a change anyway, just as I do with everything else. And the file could have some explicit ordering specifications... without regard to naming conventions.) david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chouette.inria.fr (chouette.inria.fr [138.96.24.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19972 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA01227; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902021917.UAA01227@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am writing a driver for a network card and I have a pb with interrupt levels. Basically, when I read data from the card it works fine as long as I do not intensively read from/write to the hard drive. This card works as follows: It has a fifo which gets filled with incoming traffic (IP datagrams) and generates an interrupt when the fifo goes from the an empty to a non-empty state. When the interrup occures, I read the data from the fifo with the following code: void dvintr(int unit){ ... while (fifo_not_empty){ data = inw( addr_read ); /* No DMA transfer !!! -> quite slow */ fill_buffer( buf, data); ... } dvread( buf ); /* when we get a complete MAC packet */ ... } The card does not provide DMA functionalities, I have to read word-long data from the ISA bus with the inw() function. :-( This code works fine when there is no read/write on my IDE hard drive. When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) I do not understand this because in the kernel config file, the card has the correct priority level which is higher than disk I/O: device dv0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 vector dvintr I also tried to surround the code in dvintr() with: s = splimp(); --loop-- splx(s) but it is unsuccessful. Anyway I am already at splimp level when I enter the dvintr() function (see kernel config file), am I right ? Could someone give me some help on this ? BTW, what is the exact meaning of the disable_intr() and enable_intr() functions ? Thanks a lot in advance Emmanuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:32:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21478 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:32:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21473 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:32:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA26228; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:32:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902021932.LAA26228@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Emmanuel Duros Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:32:24 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) Emmanuel Duros wrote: > When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely > filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as > it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE > drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card > has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) In NetBSD, we fixed this by enforcing an "spl heirarchy". Note, in my example, I say splnet, because in NetBSD network soft interrupts are "splsoftnet". splbio <= splnet <= spltty <= splimp This allows you to block other interrupts from things which are less likely to lose data if their interrupt is not serviced quickly. So, in your device interrupt handler (which is implicitly run at splnet), bio interrupts are also implicitly blocked so that your driver can work unhindered (but serial interrrupts, which are less freqent and more prone to data loss, can still come through). -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:35:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21827 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02498; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:39:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:39:21 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Emmanuel Duros cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels In-Reply-To: <199902021917.UAA01227@chouette.inria.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Emmanuel Duros wrote: > > Hi, > > I am writing a driver for a network card and I have a pb with interrupt > levels. > > Basically, when I read data from the card it works fine as long as I do > not intensively read from/write to the hard drive. > > This code works fine when there is no read/write on my IDE hard drive. what are your IDE flags? try this: controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 flags 0xe0ffe0ff vector controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 flags 0xe0ffe0ff vector -------------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^ it may fix your starvation issue. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 4.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:36:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21952 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13130; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:38:04 GMT Message-Id: <199902021438.OAA13130@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:43:34 -0500 To: Emmanuel Duros , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels In-Reply-To: <199902021917.UAA01227@chouette.inria.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Your "card" is too slow...if the fifo is not big enough to handle maximum off load times...there is little you can do to make it work generically. you "can" try to make the interrupt of the "card" a higher priority than the IDE driver (and other devices in your box as well)... although if its an 8-bit card you are out of luck because the high ints (10-15) have higher priority than 8-bit ints (except maybe 2/9) Im not sure if FreeBSD uses the standard priorities, if they dont then all of the above is wrong :-) Dennis At 08:17 PM 2/2/99 +0100, Emmanuel Duros wrote: > >Hi, > >I am writing a driver for a network card and I have a pb with interrupt >levels. > >Basically, when I read data from the card it works fine as long as I do >not intensively read from/write to the hard drive. > >This card works as follows: > >It has a fifo which gets filled with incoming traffic (IP datagrams) and >generates an interrupt when the fifo goes from the an empty to a >non-empty state. > >When the interrup occures, I read the data from the fifo with the >following code: > >void dvintr(int unit){ > ... > while (fifo_not_empty){ > > data = inw( addr_read ); /* No DMA transfer !!! -> quite slow */ > fill_buffer( buf, data); > ... > } > > dvread( buf ); /* when we get a complete MAC packet */ >... >} > >The card does not provide DMA functionalities, I have to read word-long >data from the ISA bus with the inw() function. :-( > >This code works fine when there is no read/write on my IDE hard drive. > >When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely >filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as >it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE >drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card >has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) > >I do not understand this because in the kernel config file, the card has >the correct priority level which is higher than disk I/O: > >device dv0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 vector dvintr > >I also tried to surround the code in dvintr() with: > >s = splimp(); > --loop-- >splx(s) > >but it is unsuccessful. Anyway I am already at splimp level when I enter >the dvintr() function (see kernel config file), am I right ? > >Could someone give me some help on this ? > >BTW, what is the exact meaning of the disable_intr() and enable_intr() >functions ? > >Thanks a lot in advance > >Emmanuel > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22743 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA22736 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:43:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19794 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:22:18 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA00791; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:49:51 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902021849.TAA00791@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Alpha-2100 server support In-Reply-To: from Doug Rabson at "Feb 2, 99 10:21:43 am" To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:49:51 +0100 (CET) Cc: imp@village.org, jin@george.lbl.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Doug Rabson wrote... > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > > > In message <199902012201.XAA02931@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes: > > : I'm guessing, but I think Freebsd/axp started off by building things > > : under NetBSD/axp and not using OSF-1 ehh, D-Unix, eeh True64 Unix (or > > : whatever it is called these days). > > > > Kinda. I did try to make FreeBSD/alpha build under OSF-1, but there > > were many problems. It could be done, but needed many compatibility > > routines to make it even a remote possibility. I punted. This was > > before John Birrell's heroic efforts, however. I tried building Netbsd/axp once under D-Unix 3.something. I quickly let go of that idea back then. > > One could likely get FreeBSD/alpha building on osf-1 (assuming hand > > built build tools) if the cross building support for FreeBSD was a > > little better. It isn't an out of the box thing, as far as I know. > > If all you are building is a kernel, life is a *lot* easier. Building a > userland is hard though; I'm eternally grateful for John's NetBSD Hear hear! > cross-build solution it made my life so much easier when I was first > bootstrapping a native FreeBSD/alpha system. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 11:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22847 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22840 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:44:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02511; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:47:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:47:58 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Jason Thorpe cc: Emmanuel Duros , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels In-Reply-To: <199902021932.LAA26228@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) > Emmanuel Duros wrote: > > > When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely > > filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as > > it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE > > drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card > > has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) > > In NetBSD, we fixed this by enforcing an "spl heirarchy". > > Note, in my example, I say splnet, because in NetBSD network soft interrupts > are "splsoftnet". > > splbio <= splnet <= spltty <= splimp > > This allows you to block other interrupts from things which are less likely > to lose data if their interrupt is not serviced quickly. > > So, in your device interrupt handler (which is implicitly run at splnet), > bio interrupts are also implicitly blocked so that your driver can work > unhindered (but serial interrrupts, which are less freqent and more prone > to data loss, can still come through). He may just be using the worst method of IDE access, last i checked freebsd doesn't automatically turn on DMA and multiblock options like NetBSD does. I think if he adjusts his IDE flags it will fix things. flags 0xe0ffe0ff That is very interesting how you have recreated interupt levels. I love my netbsd box. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 13:23:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06313 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (root@shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA06659; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:22:54 +0300 (MSK) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by shuttle.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00794; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:23:32 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@shuttle.svib.ru) Message-Id: <199902022123.AAA00794@shuttle.svib.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Josef Karthauser cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:29:22 GMT." <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net> Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru X-URL: http://freebsd.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 00:23:31 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net>Josef Karthauser writes: >> I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I >> rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick >> libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > >How do you get around the insecurity of mysql? i.e. any user on the system >can pretend to be user root using the -u option to mysql. Well, only trusted users will be allowed to log in, and only locally logged users will be able to read the database. Anyway, HOW DO I RELINK LIBC? Or no one in this list know? Alex. -- Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 13:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:31:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07154 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07508; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:33:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Alex Povolotsky cc: Josef Karthauser , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-Reply-To: <199902022123.AAA00794@shuttle.svib.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Alex Povolotsky wrote: > <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net>Josef Karthauser writes: > >> I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > >> rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > >> libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > > >How do you get around the insecurity of mysql? i.e. any user on the system > >can pretend to be user root using the -u option to mysql. > Well, only trusted users will be allowed to log in, and only locally logged > users will be able to read the database. > > Anyway, HOW DO I RELINK LIBC? Or no one in this list know? cd /usr/src/lib/libc ; ; make clean ; make all ; make install make sure you do it right, having a broken libc is not a good thing. i suggest you backup your libc. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 13:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08787 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15835 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:45:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:45:07 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Weird message trying to install FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got four brand new FreeBSD 2.2.8 CDs from Walnut Creek and started to install FreeBSD on an assembled PC. I inserted the Installation Boot CD (1) into the IDE CD-ROM and booted from it. Then in the kernel configuration menu, I choose "Start kernel configuration in Visual Mode" as instructed (this is the first time I try to install FreeBSD). After this, I select the following devices: Storage: Floppy disk controller Matsushita/Panasonic/Creative CD-ROM (I do not know what CD-ROM the machine which was assembled in parts has. It is said to be an IDE CD-ROM. Maybe I should choose Mitsumi CD-ROM or sony CD-ROM) IDE/ESDI/MFM/disk controller IDE/ESDI/MFM/disk controller (I do not know why there are two duplicate entries. I guess it is harmless to have more than one drivers for the same device) Network: DEC Etherworks 2 and 3 Ethernet adapters (The machine has a DEC tulip TCP/IP card) Communications: 8250/16450/16550 serial port 8250/16450/16550 serial port (I guess they are needed for keyboard and mouse) Input: PS/2 Mouse CONF Syscnos console driver CONF (The installation tutorial says these two conflicts are normal) Now the top of the configuration screen shows only two conflicts that are said to be normal. So I press a key to save and exit. Now I get: Fatal trap 12 - page fault while in kernel mode. ..... ..... Reboot in 15 seconds I tried the process again. The only difference I made is to input -C at the option: prompt to indicate CD-ROM. But I got the same result. I believe the installation should be hassle free. Please point out the errors I have made. Thanks a lot. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 13:58:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:58:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10722 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01166; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902022153.NAA01166@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jason Thorpe cc: Emmanuel Duros , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:32:24 PST." <199902021932.LAA26228@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:53:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) > Emmanuel Duros wrote: > > > When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely > > filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as > > it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE > > drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card > > has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) > > In NetBSD, we fixed this by enforcing an "spl heirarchy". > > Note, in my example, I say splnet, because in NetBSD network soft interrupts > are "splsoftnet". > > splbio <= splnet <= spltty <= splimp > > This allows you to block other interrupts from things which are less likely > to lose data if their interrupt is not serviced quickly. > > So, in your device interrupt handler (which is implicitly run at splnet), > bio interrupts are also implicitly blocked so that your driver can work > unhindered (but serial interrrupts, which are less freqent and more prone > to data loss, can still come through). If it is actually interrupt-related, it's fairly manifest that this isn't actually the problem, as otherwise the splimp() around the handler loop would have drastically reduced the incidence of overflows. (ie. artificially implementing priority of 'dv' over 'wd' interrupts). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 15:43:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28145 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:43:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28207; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:43:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028154; Tue Feb 2 16:43:00 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07937; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:42:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902022342.QAA07937@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: ckempf@enigami.com (Cory Kempf) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:42:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Cory Kempf" at Jan 31, 99 00:26:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Tennon has MachTen, which is also a BSD port to PowerMac. It is my understanding that Tenon does not directly access the hardware, but instead makes ROM calls to implement their drivers. It should be noted that the Mac ROMs are neither well known for their reentrancy nor their tolerance of OS's that don't fake up "thePort". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 15:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28294 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02676; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:44:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd002481; Tue Feb 2 16:44:20 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07992; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:44:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902022344.QAA07992@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: pwd.db corruption To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:44:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, rch@iserve.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901310515.VAA94603@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Jan 30, 99 09:15:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmm. If you recall the general area of the bug fix related to > this problem I can research it. *All* VM bugs fixed in 4.x > should have already been backported to 3.x, but a few sometimes > get missed ( e.g. like that NFS corruption bug fix ). I think this was one of David's fixes, actually. If it's ported to -STABLE now, then never mind. I know that -RELEASE has the bug. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 15:46:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28520 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28514 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA41085; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199902022346.PAA41085@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: rch@iserve.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pwd.db corruption References: <199902022344.QAA07992@usr09.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Hmm. If you recall the general area of the bug fix related to :> this problem I can research it. *All* VM bugs fixed in 4.x :> should have already been backported to 3.x, but a few sometimes :> get missed ( e.g. like that NFS corruption bug fix ). : :I think this was one of David's fixes, actually. If it's ported :to -STABLE now, then never mind. I know that -RELEASE has the :bug. : : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org :--- Does anyone recall, ballpark, which source module was effected? -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:27:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07020 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA27329; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:27:38 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B79131.30C270A@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:58:41 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902021745.JAA16874@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Wolfskill wrote: > > >The suggestion was to have each service's script know what depends > >on it. > > And it seems to me that this is backwards (because it becomes a > maintenance issue). That's why I complained. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07087 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA27338; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:27:40 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B79273.C201B5AD@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:04:03 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902021752.JAA16952@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Wolfskill wrote: > > >Yes, which could be problematic to do automatically :) > > That is one respect in which the SysV approach is relatively easy: by > blacing a (link to the) script in an appropriate directory with an > appropriate name, it gets started/stopped at a (relatively) well-defined > point in the run-level change. 1) Links? That's awful. Configuration information should be put in a FILE. 2) Run levels are flawed. They are "one-dimensional", and the problem they have to solve is not. (Refer to PPP vs Network problem). 3) It makes something simple (specifying a dependency) difficult, by having the manager figure out the dependency graph and needlessly introduce opportunity for inconsistency (like startup/shutdown scripts not matched). This is precisely what should NOT be implemented, imho. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07340 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07283 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22351; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022251; Tue Feb 2 17:27:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA09724; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:27:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902030027.RAA09724@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:27:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, witr@rwwa.com In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 31, 99 11:37:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > sounds like you arwe describing the process > that we use to control the interjet. > > all system activities are assigned dependencies, including such things as > "hostname was changed" and similar events. > If you indicate such an event the dependency graph is traversed and all > services that have such a dependency are notified or restarted. > > Of course it's very interjet specific. > > so of course it IS doable.. > but it requires a lot ofinfrastructure, and of course we are running a > very predictable environment > where we know all activities being run under freeBSD onth e Interjet, as > well as the hardware configuration. So our dependencies can be > hardcoded.. Not to let any cats out of any bags, but... This is *not* the process used to start the IJ. The IJ process is *much* more rigidly deterministic than you'd actually like in a non-simplified case. Someone has already mentioned my service dependency point in another posting in this thread. But their description is not complete. What we have are groups of of indivisible programs (programs which must run at teh same time). These indivisible programs export a "service cluster". Each "service cluster" contains one or more "services". A "service cluster" may also be made up of divisible programs. A "service" is well known, and constitutes a rendesvous point. For example, the indivisible program "sendmail" exports the service cluster "mail services" which contains the service "SMTP" and the service "LMTP". Other programs use4 these services to rendesvous with sendmail and exchange information. So far, we are on the same page that has already been covered; now lets make things complicated. I have the service "DNS" exported by the program "bind". The program "bind" may make calls to syslog(3). The syslog(3) interface depnds on the service "syslog". The service "syslog" is exported by the program "syslogd". The program "syslogd" may be configured to send information to a central management server via a dependency on the service cluster "network". The service cluster "network" is a virtual service, which means that it's an alias for a service cluster that must look like a single service. Among other services in the cluster "network" is the service "DNS". So, using the Makefile analogy: DNS: start_bind echo "DNS started" start_bind: interface_config interface_up syslog echo "BIND started" syslog: network echo "syslog started" network: interface_config interface_up DNS YP echo "network started" ...A circular dependency. So, how to convert a cyclic dependency graph into an acyclic dependency graph so that you can actually start things? You need the ability to not only specify *hard* dependencies, like bind on syslog, but also *weak* dependencies, like syslog on bind. Basically, this boils down to "NEED" vs. "WANT". The program(s) can "EXPORT" services once they have the services they "NEED", and thus satisfy dependencies. The state management software on the IJ doesn't do this. The part that gets tricky is the part about what to do when the configuration changes. You need to know if the configuration data change for a service you IMPORT (NEED/WANT) impacts the service you EXPORT. Using the DNS/syslog example, the service that the syslogd EXPORTS is a listen on port 514 and a (possible) forwarding of messages to other hosts, by name, from the /etx/syslog.conf. If the DNS changes, then, the syslogd may need to reconfigure itself. But if the syslogd reconfigures itself -- either because of a DNS change, or because the /etc/syslog.conf contents have changed -- the DNS does *not* need to reconfigure itself. That's because the service the syslogd exports is a listen on port 514, and that *didn't* change. If the data change didn't result in a different host than the one that syslogd "cached" (by virtue of connecting a UDP datagram port), then there's no need for a reconfiguration. There are also border conditions to contend with... like the /etc/hosts file, and/or modification of the "syslog" service record in /etc/services. Changes to either of these might need to signal a reconfiguration. Another editorial topic: What really happens here is that the real problem that we are dealing with is *not* reconfiguration, but the fact that there is the concept at all of cached data. Consider a host name change. If no program caches a copy of the host name, and each time the name is referenced, it is obtained from the system configuration data, why then there is no need to reconfigure programs that need to know the host name. What it boils down to is that there is no universally accessible global configuration space, and that programs cache data that they shouldn't. Basically, that's a legacy from when it was much more expensive to access the data, so it was worth taking the explicit reconfiguration hit (go offline) to get the new data instead of accessing it each time (take longer per transaction). Ah well, until everyone supports tupple spaces, ala "Linda" or "TSpaces" (download from http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/TSpaces/ to play with), that's the world we live in... PS: JINI is a subset of TSpaces... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08539 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08532 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14862; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:38:21 GMT Message-Id: <199902021938.TAA14862@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:43:49 -0500 To: Mike Smith , Jason Thorpe From: Dennis Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels Cc: Emmanuel Duros , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902022153.NAA01166@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:53 PM 2/2/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) >> Emmanuel Duros wrote: >> >> > When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely >> > filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as >> > it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE >> > drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card >> > has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) >> >> In NetBSD, we fixed this by enforcing an "spl heirarchy". >> >> Note, in my example, I say splnet, because in NetBSD network soft interrupts >> are "splsoftnet". >> >> splbio <= splnet <= spltty <= splimp >> >> This allows you to block other interrupts from things which are less likely >> to lose data if their interrupt is not serviced quickly. >> >> So, in your device interrupt handler (which is implicitly run at splnet), >> bio interrupts are also implicitly blocked so that your driver can work >> unhindered (but serial interrrupts, which are less freqent and more prone >> to data loss, can still come through). > >If it is actually interrupt-related, it's fairly manifest that this >isn't actually the problem, as otherwise the splimp() around the handler >loop would have drastically reduced the incidence of overflows. (ie. >artificially implementing priority of 'dv' over 'wd' interrupts). Note, as I said before, it is VERY possible that the fifo simply isnt large enough... before jumping into analysis, the simple question of whether it is feasible to do needs to be answered. not everything can be done....... What is the transmission rate, and what is the size of the fifo? db To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:41:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09055 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28336; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:41:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028303; Tue Feb 2 17:41:14 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10247; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:41:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902030041.RAA10247@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: dot@dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:41:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tony Finch" at Jan 31, 99 04:47:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >And I guess the ability to pull an Amiga and use a section of main > >memory as video memory, with a memory bus connector, instead of > >on-board video hardware. > > I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. For years now > graphics cards have had fairly special memory architectures (VRAM > etc.) so that they can stream data from the RAM to the DAC at a couple > of hundred megapixels per second without killing the bandwidth > available to the controller (let alone the CPU). I was never an Amiga > geek but I guess "chip RAM" or whatever it was called was supposed to > address this problem. "Chip RAM" is functionally equivalent to the area in which a bounce buffer can reside on an ISA machine. It's the area of memory that is addressable from the I/O bus. Actually, search Altavista for "ROCKY-518HV"; it's a single board computer (US$175 FOB Taiwan) that uses up to 4M of main memory for it's VGA display. > It would also be cool to be able to plug your disks and your graphics > controller into the same bus so that you can tell your rendering > engine to load its graphics from over there and then spend some time > doing something more useful than shuffling megabytes... > > Maybe in a year or two :-) http://www.salutation.org SLP and LDAP, anyone? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:46:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:46:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09790 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00443; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd000421; Tue Feb 2 17:46:04 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10389; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:46:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902030046.RAA10389@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: "$1$" crypt() algorithm To: lem@cantv.net Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:45:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B50F0E.9A921B32@cantv.net> from "Luis Mu?oz" at Jan 31, 99 10:18:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone know if there are any other OS'es that use a "$1$" identifier > > for crypt()ed passwords but do not use the same md5 algorithm that FreeBSD > > does? > > I wrote a perl module to handle this kind of encryption model > on various machines. I know of people working on linux, alpha, > sun and others with it sharing password files from other systems > (probably linux and FreeBSD). In all of them it works, which means > it is the same algorithm. > > I'll be very interested to know if you find any positives. FWIW, LDAPv3 and related protocols and/or code expecting to obtain authentication data from an LDAP database uses: {crypt}SDFGgskh351!@ {md5}XXXXXXYYYYYZZZZ (The passwords here are sames that aren't correct). The point is that the algorithm is identified by a leading encoding tag using the SASL ID for the thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:47:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:47:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10103 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01229; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001095; Tue Feb 2 17:47:42 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10397; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902030047.RAA10397@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:47:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <99Feb1.141506est.40338@border.alcanet.com.au> from "Peter Jeremy" at Feb 1, 99 02:24:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Tony Overfield wrote: > >http://ruputer.com/english/ > > That's somewhat easier to read. It says things like `16-bit processor', > `128K RAM', `512K or 2M Flash'. This doesn't sound like the ideal > environment for FreeBSD. (For that matter, the `data entry' capabilities > don't strike me as an ideal way to enhance my coding or documentation > productivity). For the money, I'd prefer a PalmPilot (or similar). The Japanese one shows as 4M. Maybe the English page is out of date. It's also a PC architecture, which would bea easier to run on than, say, a Hobbit chip. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:48:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10264 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:48:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10258 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA29180; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA10909; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:47:30 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA01773; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:30 -0700 Message-ID: <36B79CA1.1B6E37F9@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:47:29 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: zhihuizhang CC: hackers Subject: Re: Weird message trying to install FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zhihuizhang wrote: > > I just got four brand new FreeBSD 2.2.8 CDs from Walnut Creek and started > to install FreeBSD on an assembled PC. I inserted the Installation Boot > CD (1) into the IDE CD-ROM and booted from it. Then in the kernel > configuration menu, I choose "Start kernel configuration in Visual Mode" > as instructed (this is the first time I try to install FreeBSD). After > this, I select the following devices: > > Storage: > > Floppy disk controller > Matsushita/Panasonic/Creative CD-ROM If you booted from it, it is most certainly NOT one of these. > (I do not know what CD-ROM the machine which was assembled in > parts has. It is said to be an IDE CD-ROM. Maybe I should If you can boot from it, it's either IDE or SCSI. Most likely IDE. > choose Mitsumi CD-ROM or sony CD-ROM) It's not either of these. > IDE/ESDI/MFM/disk controller > IDE/ESDI/MFM/disk controller > (I do not know why there are two duplicate entries. I guess it > is harmless to have more than one drivers for the same device) There aren't two duplicate entries, there are entries for two controllers. If you don't have two controllers, all you're costing yourself is a little bit of RAM. > > Network: > > DEC Etherworks 2 and 3 Ethernet adapters > (The machine has a DEC tulip TCP/IP card) > > Communications: > > 8250/16450/16550 serial port > 8250/16450/16550 serial port > > (I guess they are needed for keyboard and mouse) No, they're needed for serial ports. > > Input: > PS/2 Mouse CONF > Syscnos console driver CONF > (The installation tutorial says these two conflicts are normal) > > Now the top of the configuration screen shows only two conflicts that are > said to be normal. So I press a key to save and exit. Now I get: > > Fatal trap 12 - page fault while in kernel mode. This seems highly unliked to be related to any of the choices made above. > ..... > ..... > Reboot in 15 seconds > > I tried the process again. The only difference I made is to input -C at > the option: prompt to indicate CD-ROM. But I got the same result. > > I believe the installation should be hassle free. Please point out the > errors I have made. Thanks a lot. I believe your hardware should be hassle free. Why don't you figure out what you've actually got in the machine and run an install based on that knowlege before jumping to conclusions? -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 16:53:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:53:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10905; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:53:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29041; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028960; Tue Feb 2 17:53:15 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10659; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:52:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902030052.RAA10659@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Patching Mail Server To: casper@acc.am (Casper) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:52:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-quetions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B581DE.EFCF61EE@acc.am> from "Casper" at Feb 1, 99 02:28:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? > What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? Just so you get all of the mail servers... sendmail The sendmail guys were very helpful in tems of me wanting to do strange an terrible things to the mail server. They also cheerfully accepted any patches I sent them, which is really important if you want to offload ongoing maintenance. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 17:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14017 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14007 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA80084; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990202201553.03c2ca30@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:16:40 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , ckempf@enigami.com (Cory Kempf) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902022342.QAA07937@usr09.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:42 PM 2/2/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: >> Tennon has MachTen, which is also a BSD port to PowerMac. > >It is my understanding that Tenon does not directly access the >hardware, but instead makes ROM calls to implement their drivers. > >It should be noted that the Mac ROMs are neither well known for >their reentrancy nor their tolerance of OS's that don't fake up >"thePort". Tenon does, it works on anything pretty much. MKLinux, and anything these that requires Open Firmware, makes direct calls to the devices individually if I recall. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 17:43:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:43:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www0l.netaddress.usa.net (www0l.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA17680 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lamester@netscape.net) Received: (qmail 17378 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 1999 01:40:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990203014045.17377.qmail@www0l.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.41 by www0l via web-mailer(R2.6) on Wed Feb 3 01:40:45 GMT 1999 Date: 2 Feb 99 17:40:45 PST From: David Ferry To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sparc64 freebsd port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA17681 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. I've looked at the early stuff for sparc 64 & freebsd. Is this still ongoing? That may sound like a stupid question (may?) but I've mailed the maintainer over a week ago now and have had no reply. Does anyone know if its being actively worked on, (I'm in the process of getting an UltraSparc myself....) -DaveF ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 17:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18425 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18419 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA26586; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:46 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.2/8.9.0) id MAA55132; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:41 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: David Ferry Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sparc64 freebsd port Message-ID: <19990203121841.R1179@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990203014045.17377.qmail@www0l.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990203014045.17377.qmail@www0l.netaddress.usa.net>; from David Ferry on Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 05:40:45PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 2 February 1999 at 17:40:45 -0800, David Ferry wrote: > Hi. > I've looked at the early stuff for sparc 64 & freebsd. > > Is this still ongoing? That may sound like a stupid question (may?) but I've > mailed the maintainer over a week ago now and have had no reply. Does anyone > know if its being actively worked on, (I'm in the process of getting an > UltraSparc myself....) People are doing a lot of talking about it on the FreeBSD-sparc mailing list. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 18:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22771 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id SAA29911; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA22576; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:16:22 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id SAA02008; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:17:52 -0700 Message-ID: <36B7A3C0.AC423DEC@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:17:52 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: Alex Povolotsky , Josef Karthauser , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Alex Povolotsky wrote: > > > <19990202142921.E84751@florence.pavilion.net>Josef Karthauser writes: > > >> I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > > >> rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > > >> libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > > > > >How do you get around the insecurity of mysql? i.e. any user on the system > > >can pretend to be user root using the -u option to mysql. > > Well, only trusted users will be allowed to log in, and only locally logged > > users will be able to read the database. > > > > Anyway, HOW DO I RELINK LIBC? Or no one in this list know? The members of this list, by definition, know everything there is to know about FreeBSD, since they're the people who built it. > cd /usr/src/lib/libc ; ; make clean ; make all ; make install > > make sure you do it right, having a broken libc is not a good thing. > > i suggest you backup your libc. Oh yeah, that'd be important. Alex, I suggest that if you think you need to modify libc to do this, you probably have not thought about it enough. I've been watching this thread for several days now, and wondering why it isn't sinking in that a PAM module to access the MySQL database would do what you are asking for without modifying libc. That's why PAM was added. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 19:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00250 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:17:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA09637; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Reply-to: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird message trying to install FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:45:07 EST." Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:18:25 -0800 Message-ID: <9633.918011905@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just got four brand new FreeBSD 2.2.8 CDs from Walnut Creek and started > to install FreeBSD on an assembled PC. I inserted the Installation Boot > CD (1) into the IDE CD-ROM and booted from it. Then in the kernel 1. Please send things like this to -questions in the future. The -hackers mailing list is NOT for discussing installation problems, it is for discussing technical issues relating to development. I have redirected followups accordingly. 2. Try not configuring your hardware at all in the visual mode editor. Without looking over your shoulder it's difficult to say, but it sounds like you may be removing or modifying something you should not. If it still happens with no changes, it's possible that your hardware is ill since I generally only see that trap with systems that have bad memory or cache. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 22:52:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:52:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keep.scn.ru (keep.scnet.ru [195.239.174.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08343 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from smith@scn.ru) Received: from scn.ru (quick.scnet.ru [195.239.174.3]) by keep.scn.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA26270 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:51:44 +0700 (KRS) Message-ID: <36B7F0E6.A913BCBA@scn.ru> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:47:03 +0700 From: "Vladimir N. Kovalev" Reply-To: smith@scn.ru Organization: Sibchallenge Telecom Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dummynet kernel messages Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello ! I have a lot of such messages in my /var/log/messages: Feb 2 16:18:57 ns /kernel: -- dummynet: drop from pipe 3, have 100 pks, 77532 bytes Anybody knows what does this message mean ? Is this a report about lost a packets ? How I can prevent it ? Thanks in advance. Best regards Vladimir Kovalev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 22:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08743 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asteroid.svib.ru (asteroid.svib.ru [195.151.166.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08735 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (root@shuttle.svib.ru [195.151.166.144]) by asteroid.svib.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09128; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:54:35 +0300 (MSK) Received: from shuttle.svib.ru (tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by shuttle.svib.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19694; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:55:35 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@shuttle.svib.ru) Message-Id: <199902030655.JAA19694@shuttle.svib.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:17:52 MST." <36B7A3C0.AC423DEC@softweyr.com> Reply-To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru X-URL: http://freebsd.svib.ru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:55:35 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG <36B7A3C0.AC423DEC@softweyr.com>Wes Peters writes: >Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> cd /usr/src/lib/libc ; ; make clean ; make all ; make install Wow... And it _will_ pick libmysqlclient.so when needed? I _do_ know how to run make, but the resulting libc.so fails to pick libmysqlclient.so. >Alex, I suggest that if you think you need to modify libc to do this, you >probably have not thought about it enough. I've been watching this thread >for several days now, and wondering why it isn't sinking in that a PAM >module to access the MySQL database would do what you are asking for >without modifying libc. That's why PAM was added. They are in -STABLE, which is (AFAIK) not really stable now. BTW, will PAM allow me to _extend_ my password file? There is no manuals for pam in -stable CVS. BTW, how stable -STABLE is right now? Alex. -- Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 22:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08607 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:54:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (rnocserv.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08095 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (y.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.37]) by rnocserv.urc.ac.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12888; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:46:27 +0500 (ES) (envelope-from joy@urc.ac.ru) Message-ID: <36B7F0C2.4FE4FAB5@urc.ac.ru> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:46:27 +0500 From: Konstantin Chuguev Organization: Southern Regional Center of FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <36B7A3C0.AC423DEC@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Alex, I suggest that if you think you need to modify libc to do this, you > probably have not thought about it enough. I've been watching this thread > for several days now, and wondering why it isn't sinking in that a PAM > module to access the MySQL database would do what you are asking for > without modifying libc. That's why PAM was added. > I seem to miss something completely. Until this time I was sure PAM is for absolutely other purpose. I can log in/authenticate with S/Key, cleartext password, UNIX (/etc/master.passwd) password, Kerberos or something I wrote myself through any utility which uses PAM explicitly, such as login, su or xdm. I myself can write such a utility as well. After the successful login, a service works with a user in a standard way, allowing or disallowing the user to make some things regarding the service's configuration. POP/IMAP services usually have very simple configuration, so do UUCP. FTP or WWW can have much more complicate configuration, and they are often use /etc/[master.]passwd looking for the user's home directory. UNIX shell accounts are based on /etc/master.passwd completely, they learn from this file about the user's id, its group id, class, home dir and the shell implementation itself. Disc quotas mechanism is based on UIDs and GIDs, file access permissions and every executable depend on UID, GID. Many things depend on the user's class. All the utilities call getpwent and/or getgrent for this purposes, PAM knows nothing about it. At least, I found nothing related to it in PAM documentation. What I cannot do with PAM is to bind the user with this information. I don't want to use /etc/passwd for my customers because I have many servers with different services including UNIX accounts. In other words, if FreeBSD supported NIS+, I'd use it probably. But I prefer to use a database's table for it, because the same database would have other tables with information about the same user's dial-up permissions, statistics, IP access-lists, contracts, payments etc. And, of course, all those tables are the one single relation. ISP staff members can have different access rights to this database. Someone can add/delete/modify the contract information, some more technical person can change access lists or passwords, someone can fetch the statistics. All with the database integrity guaranteed. Am I wrong and PAM has callbacks reporting about UNIX user's capabilities which are usually in /etc/passwd? -- Konstantin V. Chuguev. System administrator of Southern http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/ Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru Chelyabinsk, Russia. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 23:08:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:08:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailbox1.ucsd.edu (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11092 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:07:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjdawes@physics.ucsd.edu) Received: from physics.ucsd.edu (leucadia.ucsd.edu [132.239.69.130]) by mailbox1.ucsd.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA09270; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by physics.ucsd.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA21216; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:06:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Richard J. Dawes" X-Sender: rjdawes@leucadia Reply-To: Richard Dawes To: David Ferry cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sparc64 freebsd port In-Reply-To: <19990203014045.17377.qmail@www0l.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Dave. Go to http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/mail and read as far back as you like. >From what I gather, the project is still rather embryonic, but I'm not really at all involved. Cheers! --Rich On 2 Feb 1999, David Ferry wrote: > Hi. > I've looked at the early stuff for sparc 64 & freebsd. > > Is this still ongoing? That may sound like a stupid question (may?) but I've > mailed the maintainer over a week ago now and have had no reply. Does anyone > know if its being actively worked on, (I'm in the process of getting an > UltraSparc myself....) > > -DaveF > > ____________________________________________________________________ > More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ======================================== Richard J. Dawes rdawes@ucsd.edu ======================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 2 23:27:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:27:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA15098 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA25577; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:17:40 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199902030517.GAA25577@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Dummynet kernel messages To: smith@scn.ru Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:17:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B7F0E6.A913BCBA@scn.ru> from "Vladimir N. Kovalev" at Feb 3, 99 01:46:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello ! > I have a lot of such messages in my /var/log/messages: > Feb 2 16:18:57 ns /kernel: -- dummynet: drop from pipe 3, have 100 pks, 77532 bytes > > Anybody knows what does this message mean ? > Is this a report about lost a packets ? > How I can prevent it ? it is just a report about a queue becoming full -- a normal event. This should be only generated (unless i am mistaken) when the sysctl variable net.inet.ip.dummynet.debug is set to a non-zero value, by default it should be zero. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 00:48:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24906 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24890; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:47:16 +0000 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id DYWT1NZD; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:43:03 -0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=palmerharvey.co.uk) by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 107y0I-0006gO-00; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:49:46 +0000 To: Terry Lambert Cc: casper@acc.am (Casper), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-quetions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Patching Mail Server X-Mailer: nmh v0.26 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 00:52:31 GMT" <199902030052.RAA10659@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:49:46 +0000 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 3 February 1999, Terry Lambert proclaimed: > > Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? > > What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? > > Just so you get all of the mail servers... > > sendmail And don't forget exim... > The sendmail guys were very helpful in tems of me wanting to do > strange an terrible things to the mail server. As is Phil Hazel, correspondingly. In fatc, I'd go so far as to say he's one of the most helpful software authors I've come across. He also writes stunning documentation. > They also cheerfully accepted any patches I sent them, which is > really important if you want to offload ongoing maintenance. Likewise with exim. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator ``Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.'' -- Henry Spencer -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 00:51:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:51:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from suburbia.net (gw.iq.org [203.4.184.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA25457 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:50:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from proff@suburbia.net) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: (qmail 1689 invoked by uid 110); 3 Feb 1999 08:50:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19990203085051.1688.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: tcpdump In-Reply-To: <99Feb3.152750est.40350@border.alcanet.com.au> from Peter Jeremy at "Feb 3, 99 03:37:34 pm" To: peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:50:51 +1100 (EST) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, security@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > AFAIK, bpfilter is needed for: > a) network debugging (eg using tcpdump) > b) network monitoring (eg using ethereal) > c) DHCP client d) rarpd e) ntop f) trafshow g) nmap h) no doubt others Frankly I'm sick of seeing anal security idiots undermining useful functionality. I don't see why we should let this useless, winging segment of the network community, which spends all its time working out new ways to prevent people doing anything, shove their uncreative bankrupt, and wholly paranoid philosophy down everyone else's throats. Julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 01:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titan.metropolitan.at ([195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01121 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1CLHR1AF>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D097530@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: "'tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru'" , Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: YP-like mySQL thing Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:22:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA01122 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Povolotsky [SMTP:tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:56 AM > To: Wes Peters > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing > > <36B7A3C0.AC423DEC@softweyr.com>Wes Peters writes: > >Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > >> cd /usr/src/lib/libc ; ; make clean ; make all ; make > install > > Wow... And it _will_ pick libmysqlclient.so when needed? > > I _do_ know how to run make, but the resulting libc.so fails to pick > libmysqlclient.so. > [ML] I am not acquainted with the ELF loader, but I think that the loader (ld.so) does not honor NEEDED segments in a shared library--it only honors NEEDED segments in the program; and the programs know nothing of your libmysqlclient.so :( What you could do is use dlopen() and dlsym() out of your getpw*() stubs in your version of libc.so. That should work. /Marino > >Alex, I suggest that if you think you need to modify libc to do this, > you > >probably have not thought about it enough. I've been watching this > thread > >for several days now, and wondering why it isn't sinking in that a > PAM > >module to access the MySQL database would do what you are asking for > >without modifying libc. That's why PAM was added. > They are in -STABLE, which is (AFAIK) not really stable now. BTW, will > PAM > allow me to _extend_ my password file? > > There is no manuals for pam in -stable CVS. BTW, how stable -STABLE is > right > now? > > Alex. > > -- > Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] > [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] > [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 01:43:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03425 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03419 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05683; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:12:49 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:10:53 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-Feb-99 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > Let me suggest that we "indirect" the script files one level (ala > autoconfig). > For each package, we create .rc which has the guts of the scripts > and the dependancies. When we add, delete, or change a package, we rerun > the startup configurer which rewrites the actual scripts as needed. Hmm.. I don't really see what it gains you. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 01:52:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04713 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04696 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:52:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA22879 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:53:03 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199902030953.LAA22879@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: LD_LIBRARY_PATH problems To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:53:03 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ... I'm running a 3.0-STABLE version of FreeBSD and is using tcsh. I'm setting the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable to include two paths e.g. /home/a and /usr/b both of which contains shared libraries. When I use setenv LD_LIBRARY_PATH /home/a:/usr/b The program finds the shared library in a but not the one in b. If I swap the paths around ... setenv LD_LIBRARY_PATH /usr/b:/home/a It find the one in b, but not the one in a ???? I've tried the same with export in sh ... same effect ... Any ideas Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 02:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08991 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08971 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id XAA27019; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:37:52 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA41120; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:37:50 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:37:50 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: "Daniel J. O'Connor" Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , David Wolfskill , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Message-ID: <19990203233750.C41056@clear.co.nz> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel J. O'Connor on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 08:10:53PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 08:10:53PM +1030, Daniel J. O'Connor wrote: > > [a bunch of stuff about modernising/changing/whatever /etc/rc*] > I don't want to pour cold water on what are undoubtedly interesting and informed views on the matter, but it seems to me that this whole issue is discussed to death every few months or so. For those who want to make this the last time (ha!) it might be an idea to trawl the archives for the last four or five discussions on the subject to avoid unnecessarily covering the same ground. Just thought I'd mention it :) Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 02:46:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:46:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10433 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05759; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:15:55 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990203233750.C41056@clear.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:13:59 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Wolfskill , Richard Wackerbarth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Feb-99 Joe Abley wrote: > > [a bunch of stuff about modernising/changing/whatever /etc/rc*] > I don't want to pour cold water on what are undoubtedly interesting and > informed views on the matter, but it seems to me that this whole issue > is discussed to death every few months or so. > Just thought I'd mention it :) Yes, but DAMNIT I want this :) Of course I'm too lazy to get off my butt to do it myself.. Hmm.. sound familiar? ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 03:42:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16270 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA03957; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:41:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:41:58 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: "Daniel J. O'Connor" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Daniel J. O'Connor wrote: > On 02-Feb-99 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > Let me suggest that we "indirect" the script files one level (ala > > autoconfig). > > For each package, we create .rc which has the guts of the scripts > > and the dependancies. When we add, delete, or change a package, we rerun > > the startup configurer which rewrites the actual scripts as needed. > Hmm.. I don't really see what it gains you. It allows us: A package definition file that doesn't change when another package is added. To generate a script which does not require "make"-like complexity at startup run time. To use a "language" that is friendlier than that of "sh" ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 05:51:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:51:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sparks.net (gw.sparks.net [209.222.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA07308; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 1082bl-0006aQ-00; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:44:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: To: Dom Mitchell cc: Terry Lambert , Casper , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-quetions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Patching Mail Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Dom Mitchell wrote: > On 3 February 1999, Terry Lambert proclaimed: > > > Anyone have expirience with changing mail server source ? > > > What mail server in easier to change (sendmail, qmail ) ? > > > > Just so you get all of the mail servers... > > > > sendmail > > And don't forget exim... Exim is nice but getting a little feature bloated. It also *potentially* has some of the security design problems as sendmail. > > The sendmail guys were very helpful in tems of me wanting to do > > strange an terrible things to the mail server. > > As is Phil Hazel, correspondingly. In fatc, I'd go so far as to say > he's one of the most helpful software authors I've come across. He also > writes stunning documentation. I think qmail and postfix will blow the doors off sendmail or exim in terms of speed. Postfix is easily the fastest MTA I've worked with. As for support and development you've got Wietse and DJB to choose from. Wietse has been wonderful to work with; I've been with postfix since the early alpha days when it was vmailer:) --- David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 06:25:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA13643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA13636 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA21006; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:25:05 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199902031425.IAA21006@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: from Tony Finch at "Jan 31, 1999 4:47:27 pm" To: dot@dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:25:04 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >And I guess the ability to pull an Amiga and use a section of main > >memory as video memory, with a memory bus connector, instead of > >on-board video hardware. > > I'm not convinced that this is feasible nowadays. For years now > graphics cards have had fairly special memory architectures (VRAM > etc.) so that they can stream data from the RAM to the DAC at a couple > of hundred megapixels per second without killing the bandwidth > available to the controller (let alone the CPU). I was never an Amiga > geek but I guess "chip RAM" or whatever it was called was supposed to > address this problem. > This is done now. The Cyrix MediaGX series, as well as a few other cpu'ss use a unified memory system, where video ram is pulled from system ram. Having your bzero() speed vary depending on what video mode you're in takes a while to get used to. :) > But then: > > > What you should do instead is send S3/ATI/whatever commands to a chipset > > in the monitor case, running the raster out of dual ported RAM based > > on what the engine has been told to render. > > > > This is less useful for, say, throwing BT848 input to a monitor, but > > you'd expect that video hardware would use the computer as a peripheral > > instead of the other way around (i.e., you're video-in-to-video-out > > would ignore the computer, for the most part, if you are trying to move > > all of the pixels in sync with an input source, as opposed to generating > > the pixels computationally. > > It would also be cool to be able to plug your disks and your graphics > controller into the same bus so that you can tell your rendering > engine to load its graphics from over there and then spend some time > doing something more useful than shuffling megabytes... > > Maybe in a year or two :-) > > Tony. While I can't name names, (NDA's), several 2d/3d chips out there now allow you to at least busmaster data from ram into the chip, without the CPU's involvement. You can also setup a circular buffer of commands for the draw unit to do in memory, and give the chip an address, and tell it to 'go', and just keep filling the buffer and bringing stuff off of disk as needed. As to having the video system talk directly to the disk.... Now that would be an interesting system. Kevin Day To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 07:13:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from excalibur.oceanis.net (ns.dotcom.fr [194.133.21.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21301 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pixel@excalibur.oceanis.net) Received: (from pixel@localhost) by excalibur.oceanis.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA28883 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:13:04 GMT From: Emmanuel DELOGET Message-Id: <199902031513.PAA28883@excalibur.oceanis.net> Subject: sysctl_debug_dump To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers Mail List) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:13:04 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Sorry to disturb you] I'm currently working on sysctls, and I wanna know if you (as you are the Well Known FreeBSD Hackers Of The Universe :)) know how to get the sysctl_sysctl_debug_dump_node() function output, since it seems to provide interesting informations about defined sysctl objects. Moreover, I wonder wether the sysctl tree correspond to a 'standard' or something like that. If not, it may be a good idea to make it MIB-II compliant (since sysctl operations are a subset of SNMP set of operations, and since they are used in the same goal (management and/or statistics)). As I allready said it, I'm currently working on such a tree. It may provide interresting functionnalities, and may help in creating SNMP agents. yours, -- ____________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel DELOGET [pixel] pixel@{dotcom.fr,epita.fr} ---- DotCom SA Windows 2000 is a trademark of... Bob Kerstein [www.windows2000.com] -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 09:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12619 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06168 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from crab.whistle.com(207.76.205.112), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdmW6150; Wed Feb 3 17:06:46 1999 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA92555 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199902031705.JAA92555@whistle.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199902031425.IAA21006@home.dragondata.com> from Kevin Day at "Feb 3, 99 08:25:04 am" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:05:54 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day writes: | This is done now. The Cyrix MediaGX series, as well as a few other cpu'ss | use a unified memory system, where video ram is pulled from system ram. I found it interesting that the Compaq laptop that used the MediaGX used a different chipset for video. I think they used a NeoMagic. I wonder why they did that since you would think it would be extra cost since the MediaGX can drive an LCD. Caveat, atleast this was true for the laptop I looked at. This stuff seems to change every month. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 09:22:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:22:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chouette.inria.fr (chouette.inria.fr [138.96.24.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14259 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:22:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA11377; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:22:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:22:07 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902031722.SAA11377@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: dennis@etinc.com CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199902021938.TAA14862@etinc.com> (message from Dennis on Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:43:49 -0500) Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What is the transmission rate, and what is the size of the fifo? The transmission rate is constant at 2Mbps and the fifo is 4 Kb. I did add the flag 0xe0ffe0ff to the IDE controller but I still get losses. However, results are better with this configuration. After some investigation, I notice that when I get losses (= fifo gets completly filled with incoming traffic), two consecutive interrupts generated by the card are processed with an interval of 200 to 700 millisecondes -> meanwhile the fifo runs quickly out of space. This only happens during I/O accesses on the IDE drive. The wd driver seems to block the card interrupt for a long while reading/wrinting large files on the disk (?). I wonder why this happens because the card interrupt level (net device) is higher than the IDE disk controller (bio) ! Emmanuel > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:43:49 -0500 > From: Dennis > Cc: Emmanuel Duros , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > At 01:53 PM 2/2/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:34 +0100 (MET) > >> Emmanuel Duros wrote: > >> > >> > When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely > >> > filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as > >> > it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE > >> > drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card > >> > has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) > >> > >> In NetBSD, we fixed this by enforcing an "spl heirarchy". > >> > >> Note, in my example, I say splnet, because in NetBSD network soft > interrupts > >> are "splsoftnet". > >> > >> splbio <= splnet <= spltty <= splimp > >> > >> This allows you to block other interrupts from things which are less likely > >> to lose data if their interrupt is not serviced quickly. > >> > >> So, in your device interrupt handler (which is implicitly run at splnet), > >> bio interrupts are also implicitly blocked so that your driver can work > >> unhindered (but serial interrrupts, which are less freqent and more prone > >> to data loss, can still come through). > > > >If it is actually interrupt-related, it's fairly manifest that this > >isn't actually the problem, as otherwise the splimp() around the handler > >loop would have drastically reduced the incidence of overflows. (ie. > >artificially implementing priority of 'dv' over 'wd' interrupts). > > Note, as I said before, it is VERY possible that the fifo simply isnt large > enough... > before jumping into analysis, the simple question of whether it is feasible > to > do needs to be answered. not everything can be done....... > > What is the transmission rate, and what is the size of the fifo? > > db > ---- Original msg >From eduros Tue Feb 2 20:17:33 1999 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 20:17:33 MET From: Emmanuel Duros To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Hi, I am writing a driver for a network card and I have a pb with interrupt levels. Basically, when I read data from the card it works fine as long as I do not intensively read from/write to the hard drive. This card works as follows: It has a fifo which gets filled with incoming traffic (IP datagrams) and generates an interrupt when the fifo goes from the an empty to a non-empty state. When the interrup occures, I read the data from the fifo with the following code: void dvintr(int unit){ ... while (fifo_not_empty){ data = inw( addr_read ); /* No DMA transfer !!! -> quite slow */ fill_buffer( buf, data); ... } dvread( buf ); /* when we get a complete MAC packet */ ... } The card does not provide DMA functionalities, I have to read word-long data from the ISA bus with the inw() function. :-( This code works fine when there is no read/write on my IDE hard drive. When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) I do not understand this because in the kernel config file, the card has the correct priority level which is higher than disk I/O: device dv0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 vector dvintr I also tried to surround the code in dvintr() with: s = splimp(); --loop-- splx(s) but it is unsuccessful. Anyway I am already at splimp level when I enter the dvintr() function (see kernel config file), am I right ? Could someone give me some help on this ? BTW, what is the exact meaning of the disable_intr() and enable_intr() functions ? Thanks a lot in advance Emmanuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 09:38:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16804 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id RAA53962; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:38:33 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:38:33 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Terry Lambert Cc: Tony Overfield , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers Message-ID: <19990203173833.A6350@florence.pavilion.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990129020703.007cdec0@bugs.us.dell.com> <199901302337.QAA24443@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901302337.QAA24443@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 11:37:01PM +0000 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-1273-607072 Fax: +44-1273-607073 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 11:37:01PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > So, got any engineering prototypes you want to unload for cheap? I'm > in the market for a FreeBSD box to beat the Linux small web server > record. Maybe a web server on a tie-tack... 8^). > Cobalt look like they'll do a deal for their single U rack mount boxes, and their Qube's. They are currently running Linux as shipped, unfortunately it's not on an i386. Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 09:52:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19071 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:52:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wind.freenet.am ([194.151.101.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19049 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from casper@acc.am) Received: from lemming.acc.am (acc.freenet.am [194.151.101.251]) by wind.freenet.am (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22831; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:51:15 +0400 (GMT) Received: from acc.am (nightmar.acc.am [192.168.100.108]) by lemming.acc.am (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA18901; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:15:58 +0400 (AMT) Message-ID: <36B88066.349DA9B3@acc.am> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:59:18 +0400 From: Casper Organization: Armenian Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: ru,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What about having separate dynamic loadable modules with standard API for doing authorization/access control , simulate getpw*() functions & etc .... Modules list to read into may be hard-coded into libc or it may be read during system boot .... IMHO, in this case you need to have separate functions that using only master.passwd to read configuration. About setting up quotas : We need to change all file/directories access functions to make quotas work ... another way is to create separate file system that will use database (SQL server & etc.) instead quota.user ... In both cases we getting high SQL load (also high network load if SQL server not placed on local machine), because each file I/O operation will cause SQL request. Alex Povolotsky wrote: > > Hello! > > I've made a patch to libc to allow YP-like extension of passwd file using mySQL. > > I can share it if anyone is interested, and I need an advise: how should I > rebuild libc.so (or what else?) so that shared executables would pick > libmysqlclient.so without rebuilding? > > Alex. > -- > Alexander B. Povolotsky [ICQ 18277558] > [2:5020/145] [http://freebsd.svib.ru] [tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru] > [Urgent messages: 234-9696 ÁÂ.#35442 or tarkhil@pager.express.ru] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 09:59:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20247 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA20240 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:59:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA00893; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:43:12 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199902031543.QAA00893@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels To: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr (Emmanuel Duros) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:43:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902031722.SAA11377@chouette.inria.fr> from "Emmanuel Duros" at Feb 3, 99 06:21:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The transmission rate is constant at 2Mbps and the fifo is 4 Kb. I did > add the flag 0xe0ffe0ff to the IDE controller but I still get > losses. However, results are better with this configuration. > > After some investigation, I notice that when I get losses (= fifo gets > completly filled with incoming traffic), two consecutive interrupts > generated by the card are processed with an interval of 200 to 700 > millisecondes -> meanwhile the fifo runs quickly out of space. 200 to 700ms for an IDE transfer are a very long time. Does this happen on reading or writing to the disk ? It could be a symptom of the IDE driver doing something wrong e.g. not lowering the interrupt level between consecutive transfers. Also i am bit confused on this but i think there are two phases on processing interrupts -- the first one is when the hw interrupt is generated, it calls a small stub routine which runs above any soft interrupt level and posts posts an 'interrupt pending' signal. Then the latter is processed according to the soft interrupt levels. Perhaps you can instrument the stub which handles the hardware interrupt so that it timestamps it and fetches the interrupt mask at the time it runs. luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 10:21:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchange-server.modacad.com (mail.modacad.com [206.253.27.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24540 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:21:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MattL@ModaCAD.com) Received: by EXCHANGE_SERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <11YA6333>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:20:09 -0800 Message-ID: From: Matt Liu To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:20:08 -0800 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I bought a fujisu 10G ATA HD. fdisked and then cannot newfs it. Some can be newfsed, some cannot and give me a input/output error. It seems that it will newfs if I partitioned it into several small slice. Look like you cannot create a single 10 G fs on the drive. can FreeBSD able to support to create a fs larger or equal 10G? I tried change geometry setting in the sysinstall fdisk screen. it does not help. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:03:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02093 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:03:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02079 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rene@canyon.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.15.212] (helo=canyon.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1087Zq-0001wb-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:03:06 +0000 Received: (from rene@localhost) by canyon.demon.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA00372 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:01:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from rene) From: Rene de Vries Message-Id: <199902031901.UAA00372@canyon.demon.nl> Subject: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:01:52 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, The DE500 driver seems to have problems switching from 10baseT/UTP to 100baseTX. During boot the card (somehow) switches to 10baseT/UTP (shown on console as "de0: enabling 10baseT port" and verified by watching the HUP (switching one of its LEDs off)). When ifconfig 192.168.x.x media 100baseTX is run the console log shows "de0: enabling 100baseTX port", but the HUP does not seem to switch back to 100MBits. The same hardware and Win95 seem to work though. When I disconnect/reconnect the machine and the HUP it works neatly on 100Mbit. (The hup is a cheap Lanpro 10/100, the cabling is Cat5.) My question is what am I doing wrong, or how can I prevent the 'de' driver to switch to 10baseT in the first place? Rene -- Rene de Vries http://www.tcja.nl/~rene; mailto:rene@tcja.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from geek.grf.ov.com (geek.grf.ov.com [192.251.86.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02291 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:04:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from pebbles (pebbles.cam.veritas.com [166.98.49.16]) by geek.grf.ov.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA20775; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:17:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902031917.OAA20775@geek.grf.ov.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:02:46 -0500 To: Matt Liu From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As far as I know, there are some limitations with the physical location of the slice that holds the root directory (i.e., the "/" directory). Unfortunately I'm not exactly sure what those limitations are. If anyone can clarify, I'd be interested in knowing this as well. --K.S. At 01:20 PM 2/3/99 , Matt Liu wrote: >I bought a fujisu 10G ATA HD. fdisked and then cannot newfs it. Some can be >newfsed, some cannot and give me a input/output error. > >It seems that it will newfs if I partitioned it into several small slice. >Look like you cannot create a single 10 G fs on the drive. > >can FreeBSD able to support to create a fs larger or equal 10G? > >I tried change geometry setting in the sysinstall fdisk screen. it does not >help. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:19:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from triton.press.southern.edu (Triton.press.southern.edu [209.142.169.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05469 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:19:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@triton.press.southern.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by triton.press.southern.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA01233 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:29:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root@triton.press.southern.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:29:40 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie ROOT To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the trash. Thank you... Brett Miller To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from circe.bonn-online.com (circe.bonn-online.com [195.52.214.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05673 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:19:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lederer@bonn-online.com) Received: from bonn-online.com (ppp136.dialin.bonn-online.com [194.162.223.136]) by circe.bonn-online.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17866 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:19:29 +0100 Message-ID: <36B8A152.C10E3B71@bonn-online.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:19:46 +0100 From: Sebastian Lederer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> <36B88066.349DA9B3@acc.am> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Casper wrote: > > What about having separate dynamic loadable modules with standard API for doing > authorization/access control , simulate getpw*() functions & etc .... Modules > list to read into may be hard-coded into libc or it may be read during system Maybe it's time for FreeBSD to include nsswitch or irs. BTW, NetBSD has recently grown some nsswitch code, although it can't dynamically load nsswitch modules (yet). And please don't say "send me the diffs", because this is rather a "political" issue, not a technical one. Regards, Sebastian Lederer -- Sebastian Lederer lederer@bonn-online.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07770 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles240.castles.com [208.214.165.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07757 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08411; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902031928.LAA08411@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Doug Ambrisko cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:05:54 PST." <199902031705.JAA92555@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:28:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Kevin Day writes: > | This is done now. The Cyrix MediaGX series, as well as a few other cpu'ss > | use a unified memory system, where video ram is pulled from system ram. > > I found it interesting that the Compaq laptop that used the MediaGX used > a different chipset for video. I think they used a NeoMagic. I wonder > why they did that since you would think it would be extra cost since the > MediaGX can drive an LCD. Caveat, atleast this was true for the laptop > I looked at. This stuff seems to change every month. Because the video in the MediaGX, to put it politely, _sucks_. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:37:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08729 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles240.castles.com [208.214.165.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08717 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08441; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:30:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902031930.LAA08441@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Casper cc: tarkhil@asteroid.svib.ru, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:59:18 +0400." <36B88066.349DA9B3@acc.am> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:30:22 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA08723 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What about having separate dynamic loadable modules with standard API for doing > authorization/access control , simulate getpw*() functions & etc .... Modules > list to read into may be hard-coded into libc or it may be read during system > boot .... IMHO, in this case you need to have separate functions that using only > master.passwd to read configuration. What, you mean like PAM? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08768 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08746 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA12250; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdw12238; Wed Feb 3 19:32:45 1999 Message-ID: <36B8A459.6201DD56@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:41 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charlie ROOT CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Charlie ROOT wrote: > > I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately > like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I > could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www > sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the > trash. > > Thank you... > Brett Miller > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I 'd go for 1.1.5 if you can find someone with a copy.. there are still a few floating around.. it was SOLID! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 11:43:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09611 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09590 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4015.ime.net [209.90.195.25]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id OAA81307; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:43:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990203144119.03d84890@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:41:38 -0500 To: Julian Elischer , Charlie ROOT From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B8A459.6201DD56@whistle.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:32 PM 2/3/99 , Julian Elischer wrote: >Charlie ROOT wrote: >> >> I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately >> like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I >> could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www >> sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the >> trash. >> >> Thank you... >> Brett Miller >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > >I 'd go for 1.1.5 if you can find someone with a copy.. >there are still a few floating around.. >it was SOLID! What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 12:02:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:02:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13030 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:02:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA08196; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA03341; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:01:39 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id NAA09934; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: <36B8AB22.B4DF8878@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:01:38 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charlie ROOT CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Charlie ROOT wrote: > > I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately > like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I > could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www > sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the > trash. Wouldn't you rather just build a much smaller kernel and make your own boot floppy that will boot 3.0 or 3.1 on 4 megs? I haven't done this, but I understand it can be done from a src tree, if you make the shrunken head, er, kernel first. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 12:07:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rossel.saarnet.de (rossel.saarnet.de [145.253.240.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13855 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doehrm@aubi.de) Received: from igate.aubi.de (root@igate.aubi.de [145.253.242.249]) by rossel.saarnet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27979; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:09:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from soraya.aubi.de (cisco.aubi.de [170.56.121.252]) by igate.aubi.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22025; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:03:09 +0100 Received: from exchange.aubi.de (EXCHANGE.aubi.de [170.56.121.91]) by soraya.aubi.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02833; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:14:56 +0100 (CET) Received: by EXCHANGE.aubi.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1HL8JL1V>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:58:31 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Markus_D=F6hr?= To: "'Charlie ROOT'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:57:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA13861 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would > desperately > like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would > be fine, and I > could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on > your ftp/www try a search at http://ftpsearch.lycos.com I'm sure you find what you want :-) hope this helps -- Markus Doehr IT Admin AUBI Baubeschläge GmbH Tel.: +49 6503 917 152 Fax : +49 6503 917 190 e-Mail: doehrm@aubi.de MD1139-RIPE ************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 12:39:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18692 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18681 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:39:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 9067 invoked by uid 1003); 3 Feb 1999 20:39:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19990203223951.A6276@rucus.ru.ac.za> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:39:51 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , Charlie ROOT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD References: <36B8A459.6201DD56@whistle.com> <4.1.19990203144119.03d84890@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203144119.03d84890@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 02:41:38PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed 1999-02-03 (14:41), Drew Baxter wrote: > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. We have a 1.0 CD, which is rumoured to have been mastered on a previous incarnation of the machine I'm on. Have looked around on the filesystem, but haven't quite got up the courage to try install it. (Besides, I'm not sure the hardware I have around would be supported.) Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 12:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21249 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:57:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) id NAA39883; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:57:27 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199902032057.NAA39883@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Charlie ROOT at "Feb 3, 1999 2:29:40 pm" To: root@triton.press.southern.edu (Charlie ROOT) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:57:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Charlie ROOT wrote... > I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately > like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I > could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www > sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the > trash. As it turns out, I still have a 2.1.7.1 release sitting around. I dunno whether it'll work in 4MB, but it would certainly be worth downloading the boot floppy to find out. It is here: ftp://ftp.kdm.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.7.1-RELEASE/ Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 13:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25837 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01167; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:57:50 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 07:56:03 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Feb-99 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > A package definition file that doesn't change when another package is > added. > To generate a script which does not require "make"-like complexity at > startup run time. > To use a "language" that is friendlier than that of "sh" Hmm.. any ideas for format? A shell script which does the starting/stopping/etc could also return the dependencies (ie samba.sh dependencies) of the package. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 13:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA26334 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00221 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:26:35 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id VAA02247; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:30:43 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902032030.VAA02247@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet card In-Reply-To: <199902031901.UAA00372@canyon.demon.nl> from Rene de Vries at "Feb 3, 99 08:01:52 pm" To: rene@canyon.demon.nl (Rene de Vries) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:30:43 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Rene de Vries wrote... > The DE500 driver seems to have problems switching from 10baseT/UTP to > 100baseTX. During boot the card (somehow) switches to 10baseT/UTP (shown on > console as "de0: enabling 10baseT port" and verified by watching the HUP If it makes you any happier: same thing here on one of my Alpha machines. My K6/266 seems to connect at 100Mbit all the time. My other Alpha (the axppci33) has a SRM console that recognises the DE500 and FreeBSD goes 100mbit without troubles on that one. > (switching one of its LEDs off)). When ifconfig 192.168.x.x media 100baseTX is > run the console log shows "de0: enabling 100baseTX port", but the HUP does not > seem to switch back to 100MBits. The same hardware and Win95 seem to work > though. When I disconnect/reconnect the machine and the HUP it works neatly on > 100Mbit. (The hup is a cheap Lanpro 10/100, the cabling is Cat5.) Hub not hup. Instead of disconnect/reconnect of the cable for me the following works in /etc/rc.local on the obnoxious Axp: # this is horrible echo "you don't wanna know: enabling 100baseT" ifconfig de0 down sleep 1 ifconfig de0 media 100baseTX sleep 1 ifconfig de0 up It is gross... Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 13:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA26359 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00227 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:26:35 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id VAA02258; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:33:52 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902032033.VAA02258@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203144119.03d84890@genesis.ispace.com> from Drew Baxter at "Feb 3, 99 02:41:38 pm" To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com (Drew Baxter) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:33:52 +0100 (CET) Cc: julian@whistle.com, root@triton.press.southern.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Drew Baxter wrote... > At 02:32 PM 2/3/99 , Julian Elischer wrote: > >Charlie ROOT wrote: > >> > >> I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately > >> like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I > >> could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www > >> sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the > >> trash. > >> > >> Thank you... > >> Brett Miller > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > >I 'd go for 1.1.5 if you can find someone with a copy.. > >there are still a few floating around.. > >it was SOLID! > > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. Newbie! FreeBSD 1.0 (dec 1993) here. I lost my 386bsd 0.1 + patchkit tape though ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 13:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.nobell.com [208.24.204.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29501 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01882; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:50:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:50:56 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: "Daniel J. O'Connor" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Daniel J. O'Connor wrote: > > On 03-Feb-99 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > A package definition file that doesn't change when another package is > > added. > > To generate a script which does not require "make"-like complexity at > > startup run time. > > To use a "language" that is friendlier than that of "sh" > > A shell script which does the starting/stopping/etc could also return the > dependencies (ie samba.sh dependencies) of the package. But it could not embody the execution of them without either altering the file, generating another file (my suggestion), or having "make"-like complexity. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 14:04:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from triton.press.southern.edu (Triton.press.southern.edu [209.142.169.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01422 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:04:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@triton.press.southern.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by triton.press.southern.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12301 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:14:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root@triton.press.southern.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:14:46 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie ROOT To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /dev/bpf0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was wondering if anyone had ever successfully implemented the Berkeley Packet filter as a loadable kernel module. If so I'd love to get ahold of some source. -Brett Miller To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 14:19:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (b133.mat.net [206.246.122.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04349 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA70903; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:17:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:17:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Neil Blakey-Milner cc: Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , Charlie ROOT , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990203223951.A6276@rucus.ru.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > On Wed 1999-02-03 (14:41), Drew Baxter wrote: > > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. > > We have a 1.0 CD, which is rumoured to have been mastered on a previous > incarnation of the machine I'm on. Have looked around on the filesystem, > but haven't quite got up the courage to try install it. (Besides, I'm not > sure the hardware I have around would be supported.) You want to be a little careful here. Some folks who were around then may recall that 1.1 (as it was labelled) had to be released twice, because the first issue had a screwup, and although all the files showed up, the data on the disk for about half of them was garbage. Both cdroms (the good one and the bad one) came in identical cases, and were silkscreened the same, but one was labbelled "1.1", the other "6/94 Beta" in the nearly invisible labelling near the center ring. There was some problem of the size of the cdrom being incorrectly specified in the transfer process (I know, I was one of those that reported it). I just tried to figure out which was good, but couldn't. Guess it might take another install to hunt that down (and I'm not going to do that). The symptom was that the filesize reports good, but the file turns out to be full of junk. I have both old 1.1's. I wouldn't lend them out (I don't believe it would ever come back) but if Jordan said it was OK as far as WC and copyright goes, I could make a CD copy here. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 14:58:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10499 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:58:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10492 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00400; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:05:36 GMT (envelope-from rjs) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:05:36 GMT Message-Id: <199902032205.WAA00400@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199902032033.VAA02258@yedi.iaf.nl> (message from Wilko Bulte on Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:33:52 +0100 (CET)) Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Newbie! FreeBSD 1.0 (dec 1993) here. I lost my 386bsd 0.1 + patchkit tape >though Can you read QIC-150 tapes ? :-) I also have 386bsd 0.1 unpatched on floppies. Robert ------------------------------------- Robert Swindells - GenRad Ltd rjs@genrad.co.uk - Work rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk - Home To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 15:10:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from storage.delta.odessa.ua (dialup04.oce.odessa.ua [195.138.69.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12221 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vns@delta.odessa.ua) Received: (from vns@localhost) by storage.delta.odessa.ua (8.9.2/8.8.8) id BAA01247; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:07:56 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from vns) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:07:56 +0200 (EET) From: "Vladimir N.Silyaev" Message-Id: <199902032307.BAA01247@storage.delta.odessa.ua> To: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr Subject: writing network device driver - pb with interrupt levels Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, >I am writing a driver for a network card and I have a pb with interrupt >levels. >Basically, when I read data from the card it works fine as long as I do >not intensively read from/write to the hard drive. >This card works as follows: >It has a fifo which gets filled with incoming traffic (IP datagrams) and >generates an interrupt when the fifo goes from the an empty to a >non-empty state. [skipped] >This code works fine when there is no read/write on my IDE hard drive. >When writing on the IDE drive, the fifo of the card gets completely >filled and therefore loses bytes. In fact I cannot read data as fast as >it arrives because the CPU is busy with I/O accesses on the IDE >drive. It seems the drive I/O have higher interrupt level than the card >has. (BTW, the code works fine with an SCSI drive instead !?!??!) You can try to use the fast interrupt handlers. This hanlers are working in any splXXX level and of course our handler will be interrupt data transfer cycle with the IDE drive. At this time in the official FreeBSD kernel fast interrupts are used only in the sio and derived from it code. The disadvantage of fast interrupt is a nightmare in syncronization: only via processor level clear/enable interrupt must be used. With best regards, V.Silyaev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 15:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13132 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wind.freenet.am ([194.151.101.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12989 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:13:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from casper@acc.am) Received: from lemming.acc.am (acc.freenet.am [194.151.101.251]) by wind.freenet.am (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA28836; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:11:56 +0400 (GMT) Received: from acc.am (nightmar.acc.am [192.168.100.108]) by lemming.acc.am (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA22359; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:36:46 +0400 (AMT) Message-ID: <36B8D790.34200DB9@acc.am> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:11:12 +0400 From: Casper Organization: Armenian Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: ru,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Lederer CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> <36B88066.349DA9B3@acc.am> <36B8A152.C10E3B71@bonn-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Maybe it's time for FreeBSD to include nsswitch or irs. Sorry for stupid question , but what is the "nsswitch" and "irs". URLs are welcome ... > > BTW, NetBSD has recently grown some nsswitch code, although it can't > dynamically load nsswitch modules (yet). > > And please don't say "send me the diffs", because this is rather a > "political" issue, not a technical one. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 17:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03051 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA12067; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA13299; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:03:01 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id SAA16098; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:02:59 -0700 Message-ID: <36B8F1C3.A1C4F2F7@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:02:59 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte CC: Rene de Vries , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet card References: <199902032030.VAA02247@yedi.iaf.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte wrote: > > As Rene de Vries wrote... > > > The DE500 driver seems to have problems switching from 10baseT/UTP to > > 100baseTX. During boot the card (somehow) switches to 10baseT/UTP (shown on > > console as "de0: enabling 10baseT port" and verified by watching the HUP > > If it makes you any happier: same thing here on one of my Alpha machines. > My K6/266 seems to connect at 100Mbit all the time. My other Alpha > (the axppci33) has a SRM console that recognises the DE500 and FreeBSD > goes 100mbit without troubles on that one. > > > (switching one of its LEDs off)). When ifconfig 192.168.x.x media 100baseTX is > > run the console log shows "de0: enabling 100baseTX port", but the HUP does not > > seem to switch back to 100MBits. The same hardware and Win95 seem to work > > though. When I disconnect/reconnect the machine and the HUP it works neatly on > > 100Mbit. (The hup is a cheap Lanpro 10/100, the cabling is Cat5.) > > Hub not hup. > > Instead of disconnect/reconnect of the cable for me the following works > in /etc/rc.local on the obnoxious Axp: It sounds like Rene's hub won't switch once it's set the port type. Adding "media 100BaseTX" to the original ifconfig parameters may (or may not) take care of this problem. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 18:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18002 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vespucci.advicom.net (vespucci.advicom.net [199.170.120.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17975 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@vespucci.advicom.net) Received: from localhost (avalon@localhost) by vespucci.advicom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06789; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:35:24 -0600 (CST) X-Envelope-Recipient: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:35:23 -0600 (CST) From: Avalon Books To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: Matt Liu , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 In-Reply-To: <199902031917.OAA20775@geek.grf.ov.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > As far as I know, there are some limitations with the physical location of > the slice that holds the root directory (i.e., the "/" directory). > Unfortunately I'm not exactly sure what those limitations are. If anyone > can clarify, I'd be interested in knowing this as well. If memory serves, the root partition is limited to the first 1024 cylinders of a drive (what size this ends up being will depend on the drive's head and sector geometry). I haven't actually seen anything specifically detailing the size limits on type c, e and/or f partitions for FreeBSD's ffs. However. EIDE itself is another matter. Based on drive geometry and sector addressing limitation, the official EIDE spec ends around 8.4 Gbytes--anything bigger than that is a non-standard implementation. Note that most of the newer PC's don't seem to have much problem with this at the hardware level, and most of these non-standard drive appear to work as advertised. Operating systems don't think that some of these non-standard implementations are very funny, as turning a hard drive into a large number of blocks into a logical volume is not as easy as it sounds, and this can be made much more difficult when manufacturers start cutting corners on drive firmware... I have experienced this situation of an "unformattable" drive on several platforms, including Linux, FreeBSD and various win32's. Which makes and models seem to vary over time, though Fujitsu's and Quantum's seem to be particularly prone. --R. Pelletier Sys Admin, House Galigante We are a Micro$oft-free site To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 19:22:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26862 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:22:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26857 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA21442; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18413; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:22:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:22:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> To: kaleb@ics.com Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <36B700D2.41C67EA6@ics.com> References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <36B700D2.41C67EA6@ics.com>, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > ldconfig for ELF should just go away. Feel free to remove it from your system. It's not going to go away in FreeBSD any time soon. You witnessed the outcry when I tried to argue against it months ago. There's no point in your bringing it up over and over again. It's here to stay. Just get over it. I did. :-) > > an ELF shared library must have a name > > that ends with ".so." followed by exactly one version number, like > > this: > > > > libfoo.so.12 > > > > On other ELF systems (since I haven't looked that closely at FreeBSD's > ELF implementation) the version is a string. The string may have any > value, e.g. "foo", "a-really-long-and-silly-string" or "3". > > The linker doesn't care, it merely records the fully qualified name of > the library, including the version string, in the program's NEEDED. The > run-time loader doesn't care, it loads the exact library by name, as > recorded in the program's NEEDED. That is the case for FreeBSD too. The question was about ldconfig, not about the dynamic linker. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 21:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18667 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26214; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:10:16 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902031917.OAA20775@geek.grf.ov.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:10:00 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Matt Liu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Feb-99 The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > As far as I know, there are some limitations with the physical location of > the slice that holds the root directory (i.e., the "/" directory). > Unfortunately I'm not exactly sure what those limitations are. If anyone > can clarify, I'd be interested in knowing this as well. Hmm.. Well, I've put a single partition and slice on a 13Gb drive with no problems (post 2.2.8 anyway) The machine had a new motherboard tho (ie ATX PII) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 22:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21468 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA21459 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from geoff@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 15865 invoked by uid 268); 4 Feb 1999 06:08:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204060809.15864.qmail@rucus.ru.ac.za> Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <36B8A459.6201DD56@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Feb 3, 99 11:32:41 am" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:08:09 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: geoffr@is.co.za From: geoffr@is.co.za X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes : > Charlie ROOT wrote: > > > > I have a 486 Toshiba T1910 laptop with 4 megs of ram I would desperately > > like to outfit with an old version of FreeBSD. 2.0.5 would be fine, and I > > could always upgrade, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on your ftp/www > > sites. Please help me out so I don't end up throwing that Toshiba in the > > trash. > > I 'd go for 1.1.5 if you can find someone with a copy.. > there are still a few floating around.. > it was SOLID! I still have 1.1.5.1 available at home, and would be happy to organise to get a copy out :-) You should find that early versions of 2.x do OK on a 4M machine - I still have a 386, albeit with 8M, running an early 2.something current system. (How's that for an antique system!) Geoff. -- Geoff Rehmet, The Internet Solution geoffr@is.co.za; geoff@rucus.ru.ac.za; csgr@freebsd.org tel: +27-83-292-5800 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 22:23:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:23:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sydney.alpha.net.au (sydney.alpha.net.au [203.31.171.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22783 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:23:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@alpha.net.au) Received: from alfred ([203.41.44.5]) by sydney.alpha.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17097 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:25:13 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902040625.RAA17097@sydney.alpha.net.au> Reply-To: From: "danny" To: Subject: IIS 4 Sucks -- is got some known BUG HELP Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:40:17 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I was wondering if any of u people are aware of the bug in IIS 4 with renameing files in FTP or deleting files in ftp. If anyone knows about it or have a solution to the problem it will be great. Not that I pefer IIS but the clients request it so I have no choice :( ~~~~Alpha Dot Net Australia~~~~ Don't let ur business drown in the BIG POND. Join Alpha Dot Net Australia call:- 9211 7782 email:- enquries@alpha.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 22:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:39:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24410 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id AAA17477; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:39:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990204003938.W16540@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:39:38 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: geoffr@is.co.za, Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD References: <36B8A459.6201DD56@whistle.com> <19990204060809.15864.qmail@rucus.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990204060809.15864.qmail@rucus.ru.ac.za>; from geoffr@is.co.za on Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 08:08:09AM +0200 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 08:08:09AM +0200, a little birdie told me that geoffr@is.co.za remarked > > I still have 1.1.5.1 available at home, and would be happy to organise > to get a copy out :-) > You should find that early versions of 2.x do OK on a 4M machine - > I still have a 386, albeit with 8M, running an early 2.something current > system. (How's that for an antique system!) If memory serves, 2.1.5 was the last boot.flp that would boot unaltered on a 4 meg machine. I have a 386 SX/20 with 4 megs of RAM (appropriately named 'musca') running 2.1.5; as soon as I get a few things organized (including a NFS partition to build on), I'll upgrade it to the latest 2.1-STABLE, and there it shall stay until the poor thing is laid to rest sometime in the (hopefully far) future; it's a good printserver. --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 23:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hunter.Sisis.de (hunter.Sisis.de [193.31.11.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA28177 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@Sisis.de) Received: (from mail@localhost) by hunter.Sisis.de (8.6.9/8.6.12) id IAA04467 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:18:59 +0100 Received: from hermes.sisis.de(193.31.10.38) by hunter.Sisis.de via smap (V1.3) id sma004459.2; Thu Feb 4 08:18:51 1999 Received: from almare.sisis.de (torwart.Sisis.de [193.31.10.94]) by hermes.sisis.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19428; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:15:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from guru@almare.sisis.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by mail.sisis.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01305; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:12:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from guru) Message-ID: <19990204081224.33952@sisis.de> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:12:24 +0100 From: Matthias Apitz To: Robert Swindells Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD References: <199902032033.VAA02258@yedi.iaf.nl> <199902032205.WAA00400@fdy2.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199902032205.WAA00400@fdy2.demon.co.uk>; from Robert Swindells on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 10:05:36PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 10:05:36PM +0000, Robert Swindells wrote: > > >Newbie! FreeBSD 1.0 (dec 1993) here. I lost my 386bsd 0.1 + patchkit tape > >though > > Can you read QIC-150 tapes ? :-) > > I also have 386bsd 0.1 unpatched on floppies. I have an old UNIX Version 7 tape sitting on my table and another real big one for IBM /370 VM/SP containing also a UNIX for this steam engine. matthias -- firm: matthias.apitz@sisis.de [voc:+49 89 61308 351, fax: +49 89 61308 188] priv: guru@thias.muc.de WWW: http://www.sisis.de/~guru/ Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 3 23:21:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29043 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:21:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29037 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA06212 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdSs6210; Thu Feb 4 07:17:54 1999 Message-ID: <36B949A1.DD8D1375@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:17:53 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Reply-To: julian@whistle.com Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Microsoft Editorial Cartoons by All the Top Cartoonists! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know it's not topical.. but you gotta look at these (sugeest you do it whereve you have best bandwidth :-) julian http://www.cagle.com/microsoft/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 00:02:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04302 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:02:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04294 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:02:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA14376; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:04:07 +0200 (IST) Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06378; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:03:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:03:56 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Mike Smith cc: Doug Ambrisko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: <199902031928.LAA08411@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > Kevin Day writes: > > | This is done now. The Cyrix MediaGX series, as well as a few other cpu'ss > > | use a unified memory system, where video ram is pulled from system ram. > > > > I found it interesting that the Compaq laptop that used the MediaGX used > > a different chipset for video. I think they used a NeoMagic. I wonder > > why they did that since you would think it would be extra cost since the > > MediaGX can drive an LCD. Caveat, atleast this was true for the laptop > > I looked at. This stuffseems to change every month. > > Because the video in the MediaGX, to put it politely, _sucks_. DEC, RIP, used to have a desktop PC (called the 3010, IIRC) with a SiS chipset that uses a unified memory architecture. It was their first sub $1000 machine, and they probably did it to save costs. I never used one of these though. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 01:16:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13416 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19979; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019962; Thu Feb 4 02:15:40 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA09079; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:15:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com (Drew Baxter) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:15:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990202201553.03c2ca30@genesis.ispace.com> from "Drew Baxter" at Feb 2, 99 08:16:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > MKLinux, and anything these that requires Open Firmware, makes direct calls > to the devices individually if I recall. It was also my understanding from looking around that the Linux portion of MKLinux had full source code, but that portions of the MK portion of MKLinux was available as binaries, only. Basically, I think there is some hardware left to puzzle out that you could not expect to get help from Apple when doing the puzzling. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy an iMac for a porting project, so let me know... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 01:30:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:30:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15676 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21939; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:30:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021919; Thu Feb 4 02:30:38 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA09801; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:30:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902040930.CAA09801@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing To: lederer@bonn-online.com (Sebastian Lederer) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B8A152.C10E3B71@bonn-online.com> from "Sebastian Lederer" at Feb 3, 99 08:19:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And please don't say "send me the diffs", because this is rather a > "political" issue, not a technical one. Specifically, it pretty much needs to break the libresolv code out of libc, once and for all, so that we can take advantage of the advances in the past 6 years of bind developement. Also, note that the nsswitch/irs stuff doesn't know about dynamic linker technology. We would pretty much need a static libdlopen that could do dynamic module loading from static programs. That means an _init section for the thing to wedge it into the startup code to mmap the ld.so, if present, to switch between the /etc/passwd and other methods. PAM actually needs the same thing, if you expect to be able to require the root password for single user mode. The politics come both from the dlopen "belling of the cat" and the mother of all arguments, which is adding libresolv to all network aware programs that used to link against libc. I think the IPv6/IPSEC stuff will force this change on FreeBSD. A real PITA is going to be the libresolv_r stuff... basically, if -pthread is used, it will have to look twoce for all libraries; once for x_r, then again, if it doesn't find it, for x. That's quite a cat to bell, too... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 01:35:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:35:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15991 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26799; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:34:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026780; Thu Feb 4 02:34:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA09965; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:34:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902040934.CAA09965@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: pwd.db corruption To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:34:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, rch@iserve.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902022346.PAA41085@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Feb 2, 99 03:46:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :I think this was one of David's fixes, actually. If it's ported > :to -STABLE now, then never mind. I know that -RELEASE has the > :bug. > > Does anyone recall, ballpark, which source module was effected? pmap and the vnode pager. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 01:38:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16493 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27233; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd027227; Thu Feb 4 02:38:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA10082; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:38:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902040938.CAA10082@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:38:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B79273.C201B5AD@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at Feb 3, 99 09:04:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) Links? That's awful. Configuration information should be put in a > FILE. Uh, we await your diffs to phkmalloc. Be sure to run them by Poul so he can reject them. 8-). > 2) Run levels are flawed. They are "one-dimensional", and the > problem they have to solve is not. (Refer to PPP vs Network > problem). Run states resolve this. > 3) It makes something simple (specifying a dependency) difficult, by > having the manager figure out the dependency graph and needlessly > introduce opportunity for inconsistency (like startup/shutdown > scripts not matched). > > This is precisely what should NOT be implemented, imho. It's actually two dimensional, since it includes directory order vs. level (state) specific director{y|ies}. But it doesn't solve all the problems, no. Just all the ones BSD has that SysV doesn't. 8-p. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 02:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20343 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:16:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20335 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10086; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B97373.4A00FD3C@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:16:19 -0700 From: Wes =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peters=D5?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=40d=EB?= Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > MKLinux, and anything these that requires Open Firmware, makes direct calls > > to the devices individually if I recall. > > It was also my understanding from looking around that the Linux portion > of MKLinux had full source code, but that portions of the MK portion of > MKLinux was available as binaries, only. > > Basically, I think there is some hardware left to puzzle out that > you could not expect to get help from Apple when doing the puzzling. > > If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy an iMac for a porting project, so > let me know... Apparently NetBSD has a port that will netboot in the iMac. Perhaps some of the missing (notso) open firmware is why they can only netboot the stupid thing? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 02:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:30:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21520 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:30:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.2/8.7) id UAA73633; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:58:56 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:58:56 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199902041028.UAA73633@atdot.dotat.org> To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Drew Baxter wrote: > Julian Escher wrote: > > >I 'd go for 1.1.5 if you can find someone with a copy.. > >there are still a few floating around.. > >it was SOLID! > > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. Ha! I still have my 386BSD-0.1 installation floppies. [ should I import the sources from them at the tail of the CVS tree? :-) ] - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 02:41:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22536 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:41:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22522; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA25702; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:40:59 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B965AA.16F15961@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:17:30 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Reply-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Liu CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Liu wrote: > > I bought a fujisu 10G ATA HD. fdisked and then cannot newfs it. Some can be > newfsed, some cannot and give me a input/output error. > > It seems that it will newfs if I partitioned it into several small slice. > Look like you cannot create a single 10 G fs on the drive. > > can FreeBSD able to support to create a fs larger or equal 10G? > > I tried change geometry setting in the sysinstall fdisk screen. it does not > help. You failed to mention what version of FreeBSD you are using. There are many around, y'know... :-) I'm even amazed at how many bugs are reported for 2.2.7 and earlier... A "bug" is a "bug" if it exists in the most up to date -stable version of FreeBSD. Well, right now there are 3.0-STABLE and 2.2.8-STABLE, so things are a little bit more muddier. Generally speaking, I'd say the more up to date 2.2.8-STABLE, unless you are already on the 3.0 branch. Back to the question, I seem to recall a patch for >8Gb being applied to 2.2.8-STABLE. That's *not* the 2.2.8-RELEASE, the one that came on the CD-ROM. That's *after* the -release, which you can get on the Internet, by using cvsup, for instance. Check the handbook if you have any questions about this. So, if you are already running the latest 2.2.8-stable, and still have the problem, could you provide us with the other thing you forgot, namely the error messages? Last, but not least, this question is really more appropriate for -questions than -hackers. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 02:58:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24341 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:58:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vaio.ispra.webweaving.org ([157.150.122.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24313 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from webweaving.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vaio.ispra.webweaving.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00660 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:49:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) X-MX-Masquarade: Passed MX vaio.ispra.webweaving.org at Vaio / WebWeaving X-No-Spam: Neither the originator(s) address(es) nor the Receipient(s) addresses are to be used for unsolicited commercial email (spam) as a per message fee is incurred for both inbound and outbound traffic Message-ID: <36B97B38.74FF0B68@webweaving.org> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:49:28 +0100 From: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" Organization: Web Weaving Consultancy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: zh, nl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Irratic Curve Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whilst playing with a small, but fast, berkely DB based transaction server; which sits on a tcp/ip socket connection I ran into sometimes unpredictable reply times. One of the major problem was solved by increasing the MSIZE to 256 (the 103 bytes+ delayed ack problem). Now recently I came across: http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/performance/prelim.html Now could any one explain to me WHY freebsd appears so unpredicatable ? i.e. not a nice S-curve ? Is that the way of measuring ? Some other artifact, or real ? I think it is real, as I get the same sort of holes in my graphs for the transaction server. Any chances on an expose.... Dw To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 03:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27949 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA03183; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:31:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36B98457.28E0CB39@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:28:23 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902040938.CAA10082@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > 1) Links? That's awful. Configuration information should be put in a > > FILE. > > Uh, we await your diffs to phkmalloc. Be sure to run them by Poul > so he can reject them. 8-). I claim that's different, though not so confidently. The problem with the "links" above is that the configuration information is the *directory*, not the link by itself (as I have the vague impression is the case you mention). > > 2) Run levels are flawed. They are "one-dimensional", and the > > problem they have to solve is not. (Refer to PPP vs Network > > problem). > > Run states resolve this. Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. If people want to change things, I'd rather have it done right. right <> SysV. :-) > It's actually two dimensional, since it includes directory order > vs. level (state) specific director{y|ies}. > > But it doesn't solve all the problems, no. Just all the ones > BSD has that SysV doesn't. 8-p. BSD doesn't have any problems. It just does not implement these features. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com She just looked at him over the rotating pencil like, how slow can a mammal be and still have respiratory functions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 03:58:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01555 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01550 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:58:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id GAA27816 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:58:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:25:40 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > > In article <36B700D2.41C67EA6@ics.com>, > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > > ldconfig for ELF should just go away. > > Feel free to remove it from your system. Wrong solution to the problem. > It's not going to go away in > FreeBSD any time soon. You witnessed the outcry when I tried to argue > against it months ago. Non sequitur. ldconfig is redundant at best, presents a minor security risk, and the last time I tried it allowed for demonstrably incorrect or unexpected behavior. System admins who think they know better be damned -- they're not supporting the products they're breaking. If someone calls up and tells me they installed my product somewhere other than where the install was supposed to put it, tried to kludge it with ldconfig, and now the product doesn't work correctly, the first thing I'm going to tell them is to reinstall it in the correct, supported, location and let the program's RPATH and ld.so do what they're supposed to do. > There's no point in your bringing it up over > and over again. It's here to stay. Just get over it. I did. :-) You seem to be under the delusion that you're signing my paycheck or something. I'll lobby for its removal as long as it stays in the release. You may not see the point, and I don't care if you do or don't see the point. Put me in your killfile if you don't want to see me lobby for fixing a serious bug. And you give up too easily too. > > > an ELF shared library must have a name > > > that ends with ".so." followed by exactly one version number, like > > > this: > > > > > > libfoo.so.12 > > > > > > > On other ELF systems (since I haven't looked that closely at FreeBSD's > > ELF implementation) the version is a string. The string may have any > > value, e.g. "foo", "a-really-long-and-silly-string" or "3". > > > > The linker doesn't care, it merely records the fully qualified name of > > the library, including the version string, in the program's NEEDED. The > > run-time loader doesn't care, it loads the exact library by name, as > > recorded in the program's NEEDED. > > That is the case for FreeBSD too. The question was about ldconfig, > not about the dynamic linker. I think you miss the point. In ELF the "version" is a string with no semantics. You said it had to be a single number. That's wrong. And it's wrong whether we're talking about ldconfig, ld, or ld.so. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 04:17:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05910 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id XAA12719 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:17:38 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990204231738.T28430@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:17:38 +1100 From: David Dawes To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com>; from Kaleb S. KEITHLEY on Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 08:25:40AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 08:25:40AM -0500, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: >John Polstra wrote: >> >> In article <36B700D2.41C67EA6@ics.com>, >> Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: >> > >> > ldconfig for ELF should just go away. >> >> Feel free to remove it from your system. > >Wrong solution to the problem. > >> It's not going to go away in >> FreeBSD any time soon. You witnessed the outcry when I tried to argue >> against it months ago. > >Non sequitur. ldconfig is redundant at best, presents a minor security >risk, and the last time I tried it allowed for demonstrably incorrect or >unexpected behavior. > >System admins who think they know better be damned -- they're not >supporting the products they're breaking. If someone calls up and tells >me they installed my product somewhere other than where the install was >supposed to put it, tried to kludge it with ldconfig, and now the >product doesn't work correctly, the first thing I'm going to tell them >is to reinstall it in the correct, supported, location and let the >program's RPATH and ld.so do what they're supposed to do. Having experienced both sides of this, what I think would be good would be to be able to edit the RPATH in executables. That would allow the sysadmin to override it selectively. I don't know if that is feasible or not. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 04:19:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06097 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:19:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA06088 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from muir-10 (roger@muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.148.10]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA03011 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:19:20 GMT Message-ID: <36B99047.59E2@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:19:20 +0000 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: University of Strathclyde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: contiguous memory allocation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, With the recent VM code changes, is there a way to get a contiguous block of memory allocated after boot time? The bt848 driver is simplified if the frame buffer images are grabbed into is a contiguous block of memory. This is why the memory (768x576*3 bytes or 1.2 MegaBytes) is allocated at boot time. Porting of the bt848 driver to an LKM was abandoned, because there was no contiguous memory alloction once user programs were running and memory was fragmented. (Randall worked on this) Has this changed recently, or are we still in the same position? Thanks Roger p.s., I know the bt848 can write pixels to arbritary pages, but contiguous allocation is much simpler than having the driver know the details of many scattered memory pages. -- Roger Hardiman | Telepresence Research Group roger@cs.strath.ac.uk | DMEM, University of Strathclyde tel: 0141 548 2897 | Glasgow, Scotland, G1 1XJ, UK fax: 0141 552 0557 | http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 04:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06733 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from saturn.aladdin.de (saturn.aladdin.de [194.123.19.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA06699 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:26:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cpg@aladdin.de) Received: by saturn.aladdin.de(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 4125670E.0045207A ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:35:02 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AKS From: "Christian Groessler" To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <4125670E.0045200C.00@saturn.aladdin.de> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:27:11 +0100 Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2/4/99 2:25:40 PM Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > >is to reinstall it in the correct, supported, location and let the Sorry, who tries to tell me what the correct location is on my system? I admin that system, not anyone else.... regards, chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 04:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:42:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08795 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:42:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id OAA07541 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:42:17 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 7534; Thu Feb 4 14:42:00 1999 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199902041251.OAA27910@cdsec.com> Subject: TCP keepinit time and connection timeouts To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:51:10 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks We have noticed that the connect() timeout when the target host does not respond is much shorter than the value specified by the TCP keepinit time. With TCP keepinit set to 25, connect() timesout after about 10 seconds, while with TCP keepinit set to 75, connect() times out after about 37 seconds. So it appears the keepinit time is being divided by some value in the range 2.0 - 2.5 to obtain the actual timeout. We were wondering whether (i) the divisor is constant, and the variation we are seeing is as a result of additional processing and (ii) why the divisor is not 1 (my guess is that the keepinit time is for the entire connection attempt, and a TCP SYN, being a `half-open', is being subjected to approximately half the timeout, but that is pure speculation on my part). Can anyone shed any light on this? TIA Graham -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)423-6065/6/7 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 06:11:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20230 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:10:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA10604 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:10:49 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:10:49 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199902041410.PAA10604@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd having a spec? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was asked today whether FreeBSD has something like a 'specification'. Seems to be the hobby of buying departments in larger institutions to ask for that. SCO I was told has one. I pointed them to www.freebsd.org, at least what the Y2K statement is concerned, but specs wouldn't be bad, also, I think. -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 06:50:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24587 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04820; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:50:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA26314; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:50:19 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:50:18 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Christoph Kukulies Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd having a spec? Message-ID: <19990204155018.A8749@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199902041410.PAA10604@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902041410.PAA10604@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE>; from Christoph Kukulies on Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 03:10:49PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 03:10:49PM +0100, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > I was asked today whether FreeBSD has something like a > 'specification'. Seems to be the hobby of buying departments in > larger institutions to ask for that. SCO I was told has one. > > I pointed them to www.freebsd.org, at least what the Y2K > statement is concerned, but specs wouldn't be bad, also, I think. Get hold of the SCO 'spec' and write something similar for FreeBSD - if it is good, I'm pretty sure we'll endorse it as 'official' :-) Eivind, who would really like to get a kernel API spec... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 06:51:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:51:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24693 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54]) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 108Q7e-0002D3-00; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:51:14 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:50:42 -0600 From: Guy Helmer To: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Irratic Curve In-Reply-To: <36B97B38.74FF0B68@webweaving.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio) wrote: > Whilst playing with a small, but fast, berkely DB based transaction > server; which sits on a tcp/ip socket connection I ran into sometimes > unpredictable reply times. One of the major problem was solved by > increasing the MSIZE to 256 (the 103 bytes+ delayed ack problem). A performance fix for message sizes around 100 bytes was committed and will appear in the 3.1 release. > Now recently I came across: > > http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/performance/prelim.html > > Now could any one explain to me WHY freebsd appears so unpredicatable ? > i.e. not a nice S-curve ? Is that the way of measuring ? Some other > artifact, or real ? I think it is real, as I get the same sort of > holes in my graphs for the transaction server. Well, if you look at figure 3 on that page, it shows how changing the TCP stack to not use delayed acknowledgements eliminates the dropouts (I noticed that the change to the TCP stack is not explained on the page you reference, but it is briefly mentioned at http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Publications/Gigabit/tr5126.html). You can take advantage of a similar change to the FreeBSD TCP stack in versions 3.0 and later by doing "sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0" to turn off delayed acknowledgements. I believe this results in non-RFC-compliant behavior (I'm sure someone more familiar with the standard RFCs will correct me if I'm wrong), but it does improve performance dramatically in some circumstances. Guy Guy Helmer, Ph.D. Candidate, Iowa State University Dept. of Computer Science Research Assistant, Ames Laboratory --- ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov Research Assistant, Dept. of Computer Science --- ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 08:24:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09704 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:24:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09250 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id SAA58684; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:21:41 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:21:41 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems with fstat/netstat in 3.0-STABLE Message-ID: <19990204182141.B46126@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! On 2.2.X I was able to do the following: # fstat -p 13612 USER CMD PID FD MOUNT INUM MODE SZ|DV R/W root telnetd 13612 wd / 2 drwxr-xr-x 512 r root telnetd 13612 text /usr 61498 -r-xr-xr-x 49152 r root telnetd 13612 0* internet stream tcp f0b79e00 root telnetd 13612 1* internet stream tcp f0b79e00 root telnetd 13612 2* internet stream tcp f0b79e00 root telnetd 13612 3 / 524 crw-rw-rw- ptyp1 rw # netstat -Aan | grep f0b79e00 f0b79e00 tcp 0 0 212.110.138.4.23 192.168.1.250.1030 ESTABLISHED On 3.0-STABLE it doesn't work for TCP sockets (for udp it works). Anyone's comments? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 08:56:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15109 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15015 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10659; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:00:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:00:25 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Irratic Curve In-Reply-To: <36B97B38.74FF0B68@webweaving.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio) wrote: > Whilst playing with a small, but fast, berkely DB based transaction > server; which sits on a tcp/ip socket connection I ran into sometimes > unpredictable reply times. One of the major problem was solved by > increasing the MSIZE to 256 (the 103 bytes+ delayed ack problem). > > Now recently I came across: > > http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/performance/prelim.html > > Now could any one explain to me WHY freebsd appears so unpredicatable ? > i.e. not a nice S-curve ? Is that the way of measuring ? Some other > artifact, or real ? I think it is real, as I get the same sort of > holes in my graphs for the transaction server. > > Any chances on an expose.... Hmmm, i looked at the charts. The only thing i can say is that the initial drop off at the packet size of just above 100 is because mbufs are allocated on 108 byte boundries, suddenly FreeBSD has to switch to "high throughput mode" when you are hardly exceeding the boundry. It levels off because after a bit, the extra time taken for larger data clusters pays off at what seems to be 200 bytes. It is scary how odd it acts when the packet size is extremely large. Perhaps the driver isn't coded properly? You should also consider that they are using freebsd as of 2 years ago, there are probably major effeciency issues that have been worked on since then. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 09:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (70-sweet.camalott.com [208.239.153.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17787 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:09:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA22755; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:08:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Graham Wheeler Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP keepinit time and connection timeouts References: <199902041251.OAA27910@cdsec.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 04 Feb 1999 11:08:40 -0600 In-Reply-To: Graham Wheeler's message of "Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:51:10 +0200 (SAT)" Message-ID: <86aeyuqep3.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We have noticed that the connect() timeout when the target host does not > respond is much shorter than the value specified by the TCP keepinit time. > With TCP keepinit set to 25, connect() timesout after about 10 seconds, > while with TCP keepinit set to 75, connect() times out after about 37 seconds. > So it appears the keepinit time is being divided by some value in the range > 2.0 - 2.5 to obtain the actual timeout. All the TCP timers are in terms of PR_SLOWHZ, a kernel-wide constant which is generally 2. (This is noted near the top of /sys/netinet/tcp_timer.h.) That is because all TCP timeouts (except delayed acks) are handled by tcp_timer.c:tcp_slowtimo(), which is called PR_SLOWHZ times per second. Cheers, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 09:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19369 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:19:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (70-sweet.camalott.com [208.239.153.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19351; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:19:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA22816; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:19:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Christoph Kukulies , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd having a spec? References: <199902041410.PAA10604@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <19990204155018.A8749@bitbox.follo.net> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 04 Feb 1999 11:19:05 -0600 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:50:18 +0100" Message-ID: <8690eeqe7q.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I was asked today whether FreeBSD has something like a >> 'specification'. Seems to be the hobby of buying departments in >> larger institutions to ask for that. SCO I was told has one. >> I pointed them to www.freebsd.org, at least what the Y2K >> statement is concerned, but specs wouldn't be bad, also, I think. > Get hold of the SCO 'spec' and write something similar for FreeBSD - > if it is good, I'm pretty sure we'll endorse it as 'official' :-) > Eivind, who would really like to get a kernel API spec... Don't you run -current, Eivind? Specification of kernel for FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT: Kernel behavior is undefined under all circumstances. :-) Cheers, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 09:24:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20000 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:24:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19940 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16941 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:23:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:23:52 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 Reply-To: zhihuizhang To: hackers Subject: how process 0 becomes the swapper Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am wondering how the swapper code (I think it should be in swap_pager.c and vm_swap.c) is associated with the proc0. Proc0 is created by hand in init_main.c and machdep.c. Everything is setup there, including VM, signal, stack used for stack switch, etc. But the TSS is not fully setup. I mean the registers like %eip to indicate the code for process 0. I maybe dumb to ask this. But a little hint may help me out. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 10:44:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00634 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:44:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00626 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:44:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA82757; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:43:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990204133817.03dba040@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:41:23 -0500 To: Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990202201553.03c2ca30@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:15 AM 2/4/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: >> MKLinux, and anything these that requires Open Firmware, makes direct calls >> to the devices individually if I recall. > >It was also my understanding from looking around that the Linux portion >of MKLinux had full source code, but that portions of the MK portion of >MKLinux was available as binaries, only. I'm really not sure.. I thought MKLinux was full source, but I haven't really looked into it.. >Basically, I think there is some hardware left to puzzle out that >you could not expect to get help from Apple when doing the puzzling. Well the thing is, most of "Apple's" Hardware isn't made by Apple. They integrate the machines and make the ROM, but their Video is ATI, their Ethernet (in some cases anyway) is Dayna.. Sure they have some designs they've done (I.e. Geoport modem).. But I think you'll find that you wouldn't need to look to far except for the chipset to find out what drivers you need. >If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy an iMac for a porting project, so >let me know... I'd be interested in seeing it port in SOME form, even if just to get a 'base' going to proceed further. I'm not sure how many people are interested in screwing with an idea like this though. PowerPC Chips run RS/6000's for AIX. Although I doubt AIX would run on a Mac unless it was the X86 version in a Softwindows window. :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 10:45:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00751 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00746 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA82761; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:44:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990204134147.03b2f3d0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:42:33 -0500 To: Wes =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Peters=D5=08=40d=EB=08=22?= , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36B97373.4A00FD3C@softweyr.com> References: <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA00747 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 05:16 AM 2/4/99 , Wes "PetersÕ@dë" wrote: >Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> > MKLinux, and anything these that requires Open Firmware, makes direct calls >> > to the devices individually if I recall. >> >> It was also my understanding from looking around that the Linux portion >> of MKLinux had full source code, but that portions of the MK portion of >> MKLinux was available as binaries, only. >> >> Basically, I think there is some hardware left to puzzle out that >> you could not expect to get help from Apple when doing the puzzling. >> >> If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy an iMac for a porting project, so >> let me know... > >Apparently NetBSD has a port that will netboot in the iMac. Perhaps >some of the missing (notso) open firmware is why they can only netboot >the stupid thing? Very possible. Although any PowerPC604+ machines are supposed to have open firmware. The IMAC falls into this category. As do most of the machines in the last few years from Apple. Excluding the 20th anniversary (603E) and a few other machines. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:13:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:13:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04946 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from ant (ant.us.dell.com [143.166.12.34]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06088; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:13:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204131321.00793ec0@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:13:21 -0600 To: Avalon Books From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers In-Reply-To: References: <199902031917.OAA20775@geek.grf.ov.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:35 PM 2/3/99 -0600, Avalon Books wrote: > However. EIDE itself is another matter. Based on drive geometry and >sector addressing limitation, the official EIDE spec ends around 8.4 >Gbytes This is true. >--anything bigger than that is a non-standard implementation. This is false. All newer PC's implement the same INT 13 BIOS extensions to get around the original INT 13 BIOS's 8.4 GB limitation. >Note >that most of the newer PC's don't seem to have much problem with this at >the hardware level, and most of these non-standard drive appear to work >as advertised. The newer PC's work fine because they all implement the same spec to solve the problem. There isn't a problem at the hardware level either because nothing has changed at the hardware level to support more than 8.4 GB. > Operating systems don't think that some of these non-standard >implementations are very funny, as turning a hard drive into a large >number of blocks into a logical volume is not as easy as it sounds, and >this can be made much more difficult when manufacturers start cutting >corners on drive firmware... This makes no sense. Most older operating systems do not support the BIOS extensions, but that's simply because they need to be updated, not because anything funny is going on. Once the OS is booted, it's up to the OS to support the drive's capacity, and nothing funny needs to happen there either, until we get past 137 GB, which should happen within a few years. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:20:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05801 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26003; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:20:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19846; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:20:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902041920.LAA19846@vashon.polstra.com> To: kaleb@ics.com Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-Reply-To: <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com> References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com>, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > John Polstra wrote: > > > There's no point in your bringing it up over > > and over again. It's here to stay. Just get over it. I did. :-) > > You seem to be under the delusion that you're signing my paycheck or > something. Not at all. On the contrary, you're the fellow demanding that "ldconfig must die" and then looking to the FreeBSD development team to make the change (against the loudly expressed wishes of the vast majority of our users) and take the heat for it. > I'll lobby for its removal as long as it stays in the release. You > may not see the point, and I don't care if you do or don't see the > point. OK, I'm not your Dr. Laura. If you want to keep fighting a battle that's already been fought and lost ... have fun! > And you give up too easily too. That's refreshing to hear. It helps to balance out the complaints we get from others, who say we aren't responsive enough to the desires of the user community. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06795 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26031 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19876; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:27:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:27:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902041927.LAA19876@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-Reply-To: <19990204231738.T28430@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19990204231738.T28430@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>, David Dawes wrote: > > Having experienced both sides of this, what I think would be good would > be to be able to edit the RPATH in executables. That would allow the > sysadmin to override it selectively. I don't know if that is feasible > or not. That would be useful, but I'm afraid it may not be feasible for executables. The RPATH string is in the .dynstr section, which precedes text, data, and bss in the address space. If you made the string longer, it would change the load addresses of text, data, and bss. But executables don't contain the relocation information needed for making the necessary adjustments in that case. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:32:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07934 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07914 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14471 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:18:34 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA02483; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:08:47 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902041908.UAA02483@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet cardn In-Reply-To: <36B8F1C3.A1C4F2F7@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Feb 3, 99 06:02:59 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:08:47 +0100 (CET) Cc: rene@canyon.demon.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Wes Peters wrote... > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > As Rene de Vries wrote... > > > > > The DE500 driver seems to have problems switching from 10baseT/UTP to > > > 100baseTX. During boot the card (somehow) switches to 10baseT/UTP (shown on > > > console as "de0: enabling 10baseT port" and verified by watching the HUP > > > > If it makes you any happier: same thing here on one of my Alpha machines. > > My K6/266 seems to connect at 100Mbit all the time. My other Alpha > > (the axppci33) has a SRM console that recognises the DE500 and FreeBSD > > goes 100mbit without troubles on that one. > > > > > (switching one of its LEDs off)). When ifconfig 192.168.x.x media 100baseTX is > > > run the console log shows "de0: enabling 100baseTX port", but the HUP does not > > > seem to switch back to 100MBits. The same hardware and Win95 seem to work > > > though. When I disconnect/reconnect the machine and the HUP it works neatly on > > > 100Mbit. (The hup is a cheap Lanpro 10/100, the cabling is Cat5.) > > > > Hub not hup. > > > > Instead of disconnect/reconnect of the cable for me the following works > > in /etc/rc.local on the obnoxious Axp: > > It sounds like Rene's hub won't switch once it's set the port type. > Adding "media 100BaseTX" to the original ifconfig parameters may (or > may not) take care of this problem. Hmm. My impression is that the media 10/100 detection is broken in some respect. I *guess* one of my Alpha's SRM console sets the card up correctly. The other one is of pre-DE500 times and does not even show it in SHOW CONF. It might also be related to the Tulip chip revision, I don't know. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:33:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08109 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14464 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:18:32 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA02466; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:06:29 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902041906.UAA02466@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Feb 3, 99 05:17:30 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:06:29 +0100 (CET) Cc: nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, julian@whistle.com, root@triton.press.southern.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Chuck Robey wrote... > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > > > On Wed 1999-02-03 (14:41), Drew Baxter wrote: > > > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. > > > > We have a 1.0 CD, which is rumoured to have been mastered on a previous > > incarnation of the machine I'm on. Have looked around on the filesystem, > > but haven't quite got up the courage to try install it. (Besides, I'm not > > sure the hardware I have around would be supported.) > > You want to be a little careful here. Some folks who were around then > may recall that 1.1 (as it was labelled) had to be released twice, > because the first issue had a screwup, and although all the files showed > up, the data on the disk for about half of them was garbage. Labeled 1.1? Mine definitely says 1.0 on the paper and on the CD itself. And december 1993. > Both cdroms (the good one and the bad one) came in identical cases, and > were silkscreened the same, but one was labbelled "1.1", the other "6/94 > Beta" in the nearly invisible labelling near the center ring. There was Mine says "Mastered by Nimbus" and "FreeBSD CDROM" in the center. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 11:42:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:42:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pobox.com (lakertya-2-30.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.118.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09421 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamilton@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for id EA84545859; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:42:07 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /var/db/pkg problem after aout->elf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:42:07 -0600 From: Jon Hamilton Message-Id: <19990204194208.EA84545859@pobox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having converted from aout -> elf a few weeks ago now, I am now hunting down a.out binaries and rebuilding them [yes, I realize this isn't necessary; call me anal]. Many (most) of these are covered by the ports, and this allows me to update to the latest ported versions "for free" anyway - with one minor hassle: anything with a.out libraries can't be removed with pkg_delete, because the packing list still thinks the libraries live in e.g. /usr/local/lib rather than /usr/local/lib/aout. Of course, I can use pkg_delete -v, find the complaints, and remove the offending libs by hand, but it occurs to me that it might be nice to update the packing lists during ``make aout-to-elf''. Of course, this isn't as simple as a simple search and replace, and would probably require walking through all the "lib" containing entries and using file(1) or something similar (or maybe just going by naming convention would suffice?) Does anyone care about this? I could put some time into it if it's viewed as a problem in need of a solution. -- Jon Hamilton hamilton@pobox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 12:45:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:45:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-16-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18782 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:45:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA27917; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:44:34 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199902042044.WAA27917@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990204131321.00793ec0@bugs.us.dell.com> from Tony Overfield at "Feb 4, 99 01:13:21 pm" To: tony@dell.com (Tony Overfield) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:44:31 +0200 (SAT) Cc: avalon@advicom.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony Overfield wrote: > The newer PC's work fine because they all implement the same spec to solve > the problem. There isn't a problem at the hardware level either because > nothing has changed at the hardware level to support more than 8.4 GB. > > > Operating systems don't think that some of these non-standard > >implementations are very funny, as turning a hard drive into a large > >number of blocks into a logical volume is not as easy as it sounds, and > >this can be made much more difficult when manufacturers start cutting > >corners on drive firmware... > > This makes no sense. Most older operating systems do not support the > BIOS extensions, but that's simply because they need to be updated, > not because anything funny is going on. This is not the case. At present, the result of an int 0x13/0x41 (Check Extensions Present) simply cannot be accepted at face value. Microsoft goes to the considerable trouble of running tests in their Windows fdisk utility, on a drive-by-drive basis, before enabling support for int 0x13 extensions. (They don't rely on int 0x13/0x41.) Portions of the FreeBSD boot code were initially written (late last year) to rely on int 0x13/0x41 to indicate presence of disk address packet support: choosing either a conventional (0x13/0x2) or extended read (0x13/0x42), having tested the interface support bitmap. This approach failed miserably. Versions of Linux I've looked at don't appear to regard the int 0x13 extensions as (yet) being a viable standard. Several DOS/Windows programmers of disk diagnostic/repair software, in an informal survey late last year, indicated that they weren't supporting the extensions, as they couldn't be relied on to "just work" on any given machine which claimed support. At least two specific problems I'm personally aware of are: o Certain (probably older) BIOSes claim support, but the CHS-LBA translation is not in accordance with the Phoenix EDD 1.1 specification. (IIRC, some Award BIOSes have this problem.) o In certain BIOS setup configurations, the machine claims to support the int 0x13 extensions, but in fact doesn't make even a vague attempt to do so successfully. (A case in point is a -- yes, it's a Dell -- OptiPlex Gxa here, despite a late 1998 flash BIOS upgrade.) This certainly is *not* an issue of "Oh, we just haven't gotten around to updating the code yet." -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 12:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19122 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:47:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id PAA28246 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:47:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BA0774.13496EC3@ics.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:47:48 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries References: <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> <199902041920.LAA19846@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > you're the fellow demanding that > "ldconfig must die" and then looking to the FreeBSD development team > to make the change (against the loudly expressed wishes of the vast > majority of our users) and take the heat for it. ROTFLMAO. You (collectively) don't have any trouble taking the heat for, e.g. the lack of SVR4-style rc/init, event though some number of people want it. You're telling me you listen to your users, but when a user (me) tells you something, you respond with "shut up, we don't want to hear what our users are telling us." Which is it, are you listening or not? Where do you (collectively) make a stand, put your foot down, and say, it's a bad idea, or redundant, or whatever the case may be and refuse to do something? For the five-plus years I've subscribed to this list I've seen plenty of evidence that "heat from the vast majority of your users" is rarely a factor in making a technical decision. > OK, I'm not your Dr. Laura. Oh, that's really clever. I suppose I should be happy you're not telling me I don't know how to read a spec or something similar. So, since you listen to your users, we'll be seeing SVR4-style rc/init in 3.1, right? -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 12:51:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19806 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14489 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:18:36 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA00955; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:38:22 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902041838.TAA00955@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990204081224.33952@sisis.de> from Matthias Apitz at "Feb 4, 99 08:12:24 am" To: guru@sisis.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:38:22 +0100 (CET) Cc: rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthias Apitz wrote... > On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 10:05:36PM +0000, Robert Swindells wrote: > > > > >Newbie! FreeBSD 1.0 (dec 1993) here. I lost my 386bsd 0.1 + patchkit tape > > >though > > > > Can you read QIC-150 tapes ? :-) Yes.. ;-) > > I also have 386bsd 0.1 unpatched on floppies. > > I have an old UNIX Version 7 tape sitting on my table and another Talk to Warren Toomey for the PUPS archive. > real big one for IBM /370 VM/SP containing also a UNIX for this steam > engine. > > matthias Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 13:04:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fs.IConNet.NET (fs.IConNet.NET [199.173.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21306 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuck@fs.IConNet.NET) Received: from ncc-ws03. (ncc-ws03.IConNet.NET [199.173.160.198]) by fs.IConNet.NET (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id QAA22743; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:04:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncc-ws03. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA07236; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:07 -0500 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Solaris X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36BA0774.13496EC3@ics.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:05:06 -0500 (EST) Organization: Icon CMT Corporation From: Chuck Youse To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh, just boot this asshole. On 04-Feb-99 Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > John Polstra wrote: > >> you're the fellow demanding that >> "ldconfig must die" and then looking to the FreeBSD development team >> to make the change (against the loudly expressed wishes of the vast >> majority of our users) and take the heat for it. > > ROTFLMAO. You (collectively) don't have any trouble taking the heat for, > e.g. the lack of SVR4-style rc/init, event though some number of people > want it. > > You're telling me you listen to your users, but when a user (me) tells > you something, you respond with "shut up, we don't want to hear what our > users are telling us." Which is it, are you listening or not? > > Where do you (collectively) make a stand, put your foot down, and say, > it's a bad idea, or redundant, or whatever the case may be and refuse to > do something? > > For the five-plus years I've subscribed to this list I've seen plenty of > evidence that "heat from the vast majority of your users" is rarely a > factor in making a technical decision. > >> OK, I'm not your Dr. Laura. > > Oh, that's really clever. I suppose I should be happy you're not telling > me I don't know how to read a spec or something similar. > > So, since you listen to your users, we'll be seeing SVR4-style rc/init > in 3.1, right? > > -- > > Kaleb > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Chuck Youse, chuck@iconnet.net Icon CMT Network Operations Center, 1st Shift Supervisor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 13:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23582 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16641; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902042120.NAA16641@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:47:48 EST." <36BA0774.13496EC3@ics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:20:43 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So, since you listen to your users, we'll be seeing SVR4-style rc/init > in 3.1, right? Uh, Kaleb, just have some tea and relax a second here. If you were "listening to the users", you'd have heard that the bulk of them don't want an SVR4-style rc/init. Just like the bulk of them screamed at ldconfig going away. Sure, we listen to your opinion. We also listen to everyone else's opinion. If you don't like the fact that there are more people that don't share your opinion than do, please don't take it out on us. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 13:36:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24400 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24394 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 108WRm-000GiD-00; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:36:26 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:20:43 PST." <199902042120.NAA16641@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:36:26 +0200 Message-ID: <64244.918164186@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:20:43 PST, Mike Smith wrote: > Sure, we listen to your opinion. We also listen to everyone else's > opinion. If you don't like the fact that there are more people that > don't share your opinion than do, please don't take it out on us. Hi Mike, The paragraph above worries me. I've always had a sense that the people determining directions for FreeBSD are people who are "abiding by a code", in a sense -- that they know The Right Thing and try to keep things as pure as possible. Is this a misperception? If the vast majority of users wanted something that was an incredibly bad idea, would it be adopted within FreeBSD or turfed out? (The above has no bearing on the current topic, nor anything discussed recently.) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 13:46:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25761 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:46:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25694 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16767; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:41:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902042141.NAA16767@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Sheldon Hearn cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Consensus and direction (was Re: ldconfig and libraries) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:36:26 +0200." <64244.918164186@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:41:44 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Sure, we listen to your opinion. We also listen to everyone else's > > opinion. If you don't like the fact that there are more people that > > don't share your opinion than do, please don't take it out on us. > > Hi Mike, > > The paragraph above worries me. I've always had a sense that the people > determining directions for FreeBSD are people who are "abiding by a > code", in a sense -- that they know The Right Thing and try to keep > things as pure as possible. > > Is this a misperception? If the vast majority of users wanted something > that was an incredibly bad idea, would it be adopted within FreeBSD or > turfed out? If the vast majority of users wanted something, by definition it wouldn't be an incredibly bad idea. Perhaps more to the point is that the FreeBSD user community shares the same basic principles as the Project itself, so it's not likely to demand something incredibly bad in the first place. Were such a situation to arise, I suspect that the people that thought the idea was incredibly bad would campaign to educate those that thought otherwise. I think we've seen this happen many times already without noticing it, actually. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 13:56:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from circe.bonn-online.com (circe.bonn-online.com [195.52.214.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27861 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lederer@bonn-online.com) Received: from bonn-online.com (ppp171.dialin.bonn-online.com [194.162.223.171]) by circe.bonn-online.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09570; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:52:53 +0100 Message-ID: <36BA16C7.E62BA0E2@bonn-online.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 22:53:11 +0100 From: Sebastian Lederer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Casper CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YP-like mySQL thing References: <199902020728.KAA06671@shuttle.svib.ru> <36B88066.349DA9B3@acc.am> <36B8A152.C10E3B71@bonn-online.com> <36B8D790.34200DB9@acc.am> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Casper wrote: > > > Maybe it's time for FreeBSD to include nsswitch or irs. > Sorry for stupid question , but what is the "nsswitch" and "irs". > URLs are welcome ... nsswitch is the name service switch, to be found, for example, in Solaris: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=nsswitch.conf&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=SunOS+5.5.1&format=html irs is a similar thing ("Information Retrieval Service") and is included in the bind distribution. See /usr/src/contrib/bind/lib/irs . Regards, Sebastian Lederer -- Sebastian Lederer lederer@bonn-online.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 14:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02557 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:30:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost by echonyc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA24268; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:30:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:30:13 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Sheldon Hearn cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-Reply-To: <64244.918164186@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > If the vast majority of users wanted something that was an > incredibly bad idea, would it be adopted within FreeBSD or turfed > out? I think we all know the answer to this ... Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07890 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07873 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25625 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:56:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id WAA04177; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:14:50 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902042114.WAA04177@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet cardn In-Reply-To: <199902041908.UAA02483@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Feb 4, 99 08:08:47 pm" To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:14:50 +0100 (CET) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, rene@canyon.demon.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Wilko Bulte wrote... > As Wes Peters wrote... > > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > > As Rene de Vries wrote... > > > > > > > The DE500 driver seems to have problems switching from 10baseT/UTP to > > > > 100baseTX. During boot the card (somehow) switches to 10baseT/UTP (shown on > > > > console as "de0: enabling 10baseT port" and verified by watching the HUP > > > > > > If it makes you any happier: same thing here on one of my Alpha machines. > > > My K6/266 seems to connect at 100Mbit all the time. My other Alpha > > > (the axppci33) has a SRM console that recognises the DE500 and FreeBSD > > > goes 100mbit without troubles on that one. > > > > > > > (switching one of its LEDs off)). When ifconfig 192.168.x.x media 100baseTX is > > > > run the console log shows "de0: enabling 100baseTX port", but the HUP does not > > > > seem to switch back to 100MBits. The same hardware and Win95 seem to work > > > > though. When I disconnect/reconnect the machine and the HUP it works neatly on > > > > 100Mbit. (The hup is a cheap Lanpro 10/100, the cabling is Cat5.) > > > > > > Hub not hup. > > > > > > Instead of disconnect/reconnect of the cable for me the following works > > > in /etc/rc.local on the obnoxious Axp: > > > > It sounds like Rene's hub won't switch once it's set the port type. > > Adding "media 100BaseTX" to the original ifconfig parameters may (or > > may not) take care of this problem. > > Hmm. My impression is that the media 10/100 detection is broken in some > respect. I *guess* one of my Alpha's SRM console sets the card up correctly. > The other one is of pre-DE500 times and does not even show it in SHOW CONF. On that one D-Unix says: tu0: DECchip 21143: Revision: 3.0 tu0: auto negotiation capable device tu0 at pci0 slot 6 tu0: DEC TULIP (10/100) Ethernet Interface, hardware address: 00-00-F8-06-AB-1F tu0: no console mode: defaulting to 10BaseT (UTP) port: half duplex So, for the Alpha boxes the console comes into play. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08729 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (b133.mat.net [206.246.122.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08710 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:11:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03322; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:08:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:08:46 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Wilko Bulte cc: nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, julian@whistle.com, root@triton.press.southern.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199902041906.UAA02466@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Chuck Robey wrote... > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > > > > > On Wed 1999-02-03 (14:41), Drew Baxter wrote: > > > > What's really sad is I still have a January 1994 2.0 CD around here.. > > > > > > We have a 1.0 CD, which is rumoured to have been mastered on a previous > > > incarnation of the machine I'm on. Have looked around on the filesystem, > > > but haven't quite got up the courage to try install it. (Besides, I'm not > > > sure the hardware I have around would be supported.) > > > > You want to be a little careful here. Some folks who were around then > > may recall that 1.1 (as it was labelled) had to be released twice, > > because the first issue had a screwup, and although all the files showed > > up, the data on the disk for about half of them was garbage. > > Labeled 1.1? Mine definitely says 1.0 I have the 1.0, but I was referring to the 1.1. He was talking about 1.1.5.1, and I think the 1.1 cdrom is the closest cdrom release to that. There wasn't any fubar done on the 1.0 cdrom, just the 1.1. on the paper and on the CD itself. > And december 1993. > > > Both cdroms (the good one and the bad one) came in identical cases, and > > were silkscreened the same, but one was labbelled "1.1", the other "6/94 > > Beta" in the nearly invisible labelling near the center ring. There was > > Mine says "Mastered by Nimbus" and "FreeBSD CDROM" in the center. > > Wilko > _ ______________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl > |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl > ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:24:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:24:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10272 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:24:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA21147; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:47:48 EST." <36BA0774.13496EC3@ics.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:24:33 -0800 Message-ID: <21143.918170673@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ROTFLMAO. You (collectively) don't have any trouble taking the heat for, > e.g. the lack of SVR4-style rc/init, event though some number of people > want it. I think you're going after John rather unfairly over this considering that it was he who had his mind rudely changed by a veritable tide of complaints when he himself suggested (and very much wanted) that ldconfig be terminated with extreme prejudice. I also don't see bringing up the SVR4 rc/init as anything more than a complete non-sequitur invoked, for some bizarre reason, in defense of your cause. John's willingness or unwillingness has nothing to do with it here and he made that quite plain in his original reply. He's already taken the heat over this issue once and he doesn't want to take heat over it it again, period. Since you're not paying him anything, you have no leverage to get him to willingly suffer pain for little perceived gain and screaming about it in the mailing lists will merely get you procmailed by he and anyone else who's tired of listening to screams. Not that being procmailed would be much of a new experience for you, Kaleb, so that's probably not much of a threat. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:27:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:27:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10753 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA21197; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Sheldon Hearn cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:36:26 +0200." <64244.918164186@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:27:11 -0800 Message-ID: <21193.918170831@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The paragraph above worries me. I've always had a sense that the people > determining directions for FreeBSD are people who are "abiding by a > code", in a sense -- that they know The Right Thing and try to keep > things as pure as possible. Your sense is correct. That's pretty much how we try to do things, even when we're compromising on something since it effects the degree and the nature of such compromises. > Is this a misperception? If the vast majority of users wanted something > that was an incredibly bad idea, would it be adopted within FreeBSD or > turfed out? Not an incredibly bad idea, no. An idea which had some bad aspects to it but was overall something which was really really needed, that might be a compromise candidate, however. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:46:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13496 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:46:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.2/8.7) id KAA03818 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:40 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:40 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199902042345.KAA03818@atdot.dotat.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Writable string sysctl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it possible to have a writable string sysctl? I want to create an "elf.default_brand" sysctl which contains the "elf brand of last resort" that we'll use if an unbranded executable is started. - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:54:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:54:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14443 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-78-182.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.78.182]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05770; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA27000; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:11:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: newton@atdot.dotat.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Writable string sysctl In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:40 +1030 (CST)" <199902042345.KAA03818@atdot.dotat.org> References: <199902042345.KAA03818@atdot.dotat.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990204191124V.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:11:24 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Mark Newton Subject: Writable string sysctl Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:40 +1030 (CST) > > Is it possible to have a writable string sysctl? > > I want to create an "elf.default_brand" sysctl which contains the > "elf brand of last resort" that we'll use if an unbranded executable > is started. Please don't make it the default if this happens. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net > - mark > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org > but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton > ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 15:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:56:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14870 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:56:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.2/8.7) id KAA03905 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:25:07 +1030 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199902042355.KAA03905@atdot.dotat.org> Subject: Re: Writable string sysctl To: wghicks@bellsouth.net (W Gerald Hicks) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:24:46 +1030 (CST) In-Reply-To: <19990204191124V.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> from "W Gerald Hicks" at Feb 4, 99 07:11:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > I want to create an "elf.default_brand" sysctl which contains the > > "elf brand of last resort" that we'll use if an unbranded executable > > is started. > > Please don't make it the default if this happens. Of course not. If the sysctl contains the empty string the old behaviour will be preserved. Curious: What problems would you envisage it causing anyway? - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 16:05:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18074 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id QAA91618; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199902050005.QAA91618@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Irratic Curve References: <36B97B38.74FF0B68@webweaving.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :... :http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/performance/prelim.html : :Now could any one explain to me WHY freebsd appears so unpredicatable ? :i.e. not a nice S-curve ? Is that the way of measuring ? Some other :artifact, or real ? I think it is real, as I get the same sort of :holes in my graphs for the transaction server. : :Any chances on an expose.... : :Dw If you want a transactional connection over TCP to go fast, you generally have to turn off nagle. { int one = 1; setsockopt(fd, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY, &one, sizeof(one)); } If the connection is pipelined, it can be a different story. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 17:16:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26361 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26356 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:16:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13590 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdL13587; Fri Feb 5 01:14:47 1999 Message-ID: <36BA4603.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:14:43 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone seen bugs in fxp driver or mbuf related code recently? Here is a crash dump from a system about 10 days old (3.x series) We are willing to believe that we've done this (we do enough networking stuff but I'm just looking to see if there is anyone else that has seen this. julian (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xf0110508 in at_shutdown (function=0xf019544f , arg=0xf318cfa0, queue=-266129176) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xf0196155 in trap_fatal (frame=0xf3249d8c, eva=4031301104) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:942 #3 0xf0195beb in trap_pfault (frame=0xf3249d8c, usermode=0, eva=4031301104) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:835 #4 0xf0195862 in trap (frame={tf_es = -216203248, tf_ds = 187039760, tf_edi = -264698464, tf_esi = -1073342976, tf_ebp = -215704104, tf_isp = -215704140, tf_ebx = -264698496, tf_edx = 1441264, tf_ecx = -264654846, tf_eax = -265107456, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = -215744512, tf_eip = -266996960, tf_cs = -267059192, tf_eflags = 66054, tf_esp = -264698880, tf_ss = -262550016}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:437 #5 0xf015f320 in fxp_add_rfabuf (sc=0xf059ce00, oldm=0xf0390400) at ../../pci/if_fxp.c:1535 #6 0xf015e7cc in fxp_intr (arg=0xf059ce00) at ../../pci/if_fxp.c:1000 #7 0xf0103342 in intr_mux (arg=0xf0599f20) at ../../kern/kern_intr.c:99 #8 0xf0181034 in vm_map_lookup (var_map=0xf3249f0c, vaddr=135299072, fault_typea=3 '\003', out_entry=0xf3249f10, object=0xf3249f04, pindex=0xf3249f08, out_prot=0xf3249ef3 "", wired=0xf3249eec) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:2538 #9 0xf017c7ef in vm_fault (map=0xf3279700, vaddr=135299072, fault_type=3 '\003', fault_flags=8) at ../../vm/vm_fault.c:198 #10 0xf0195b7e in trap_pfault (frame=0xf3249fbc, usermode=1, eva=135299072) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:816 #11 0xf01956fe in trap (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 135299072, tf_esi = 2, tf_ebp = -272640432, tf_isp = -215703580, tf_ebx = 8192, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 2048, tf_eax = -791621424, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 6, tf_eip = 672599431, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 66054, tf_esp = -272640484, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:358 #12 0x28170d87 in ?? () #13 0x281701ee in ?? () #14 0x281708fe in ?? () #15 0x804a27f in ?? () #16 0x804aa70 in ?? () #17 0x804bc30 in ?? () --------------------------------------------- fxp_add_rfabuf(sc, oldm) struct fxp_softc *sc; struct mbuf *oldm; { u_int32_t v; struct mbuf *m; struct fxp_rfa *rfa, *p_rfa; MGETHDR(m, M_DONTWAIT, MT_DATA); if (m != NULL) { MCLGET(m, M_DONTWAIT); <-------- error here. if ((m->m_flags & M_EXT) == 0) { m_freem(m); if (oldm == NULL) return 1; m = oldm; m->m_data = m->m_ext.ext_buf; } } else { (kgdb) p mclfree $3 = (union mcluster *) 0xa0225000 *cough* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 17:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (parker-T1-2-gw.sf3d.best.net [209.157.165.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27888 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA24775; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:34:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:34:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199902050234.SAA24775@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? In-Reply-To: <36BA4603.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's *really* easy to get exactly this kind of crash if you free a free mbuf, or scribble past the end of one, etc. Jim Shankland NLynx Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 17:47:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (smtp2.teleport.com [192.108.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00476 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:47:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) From: mrl@teleport.com Received: (qmail 12299 invoked from network); 5 Feb 1999 01:47:00 -0000 Received: from user2.teleport.com (mrl@192.108.254.12) by smtp2.teleport.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 01:47:00 -0000 Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA06936; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902050147.RAA06936@user2.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36BA4603.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 04, 1999 05:14:43 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Anyone seen bugs in fxp driver or mbuf related code recently? > > Here is a crash dump from a system about 10 days old (3.x series) Maybe a related fxp incident? Not a crash but a time-out on a system (3.X) of 2 days ago! After the time-out it would not respond 'till a reboot. Mostyn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 18:44:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09276 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:44:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from w2xo.pgh.pa.us (w2xo.pgh.pa.us [206.210.70.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09262 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us) Received: from w2xo.pgh.pa.us (durham@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by w2xo.pgh.pa.us (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13722 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:45:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us) Message-ID: <36BA5B37.ABC66FA7@w2xo.pgh.pa.us> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:45:11 -0500 From: Jim Durham Organization: dis- X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Upgrading 3.0 SNAP problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have two 3.0-RELEASE systems here. One (w2xo) is an upgrade from 3.0-SNAP-971225 and the other (shazam) is a clean installation from scratch. shazam works just fine. w2xo, however, kept complaining about missing libraries, noteably libc.so.2.2. I dumped the hints from ldconfig -r for a.out and the libraries in question were there. Upon searching the lists, etc for some hint about this problem,I noticed that there was, or could be, a file in /etc call objformat that defined the default object format. I tried making this file and setting the default to a.out. Voila! No more problems. However, I was lead to believe that this only defined the object format output from the compiler. I'd really like to have the compiler make elf binaries, so this is a bad fix. The other problem I have encountered on w2xo, not shazam, is that binaries installed from packages fail on a kerberos error. Ports compiled on w2xo run fine. Thanks, -- Jim Durham To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 19:00:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:00:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vespucci.advicom.net (vespucci.advicom.net [199.170.120.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11976 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@vespucci.advicom.net) Received: from localhost (avalon@localhost) by vespucci.advicom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29248; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:00:35 -0600 (CST) X-Envelope-Recipient: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:00:35 -0600 (CST) From: Avalon Books To: Tony Overfield cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990204131321.00793ec0@bugs.us.dell.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Perhaps some clarifications are in order... On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Overfield wrote: > At 08:35 PM 2/3/99 -0600, Avalon Books wrote: > > However. EIDE itself is another matter. Based on drive geometry and > >sector addressing limitation, the official EIDE spec ends around 8.4 > >Gbytes > > This is true. > > >--anything bigger than that is a non-standard implementation. > > This is false. All newer PC's implement the same INT 13 BIOS extensions > to get around the original INT 13 BIOS's 8.4 GB limitation. I beg to differ. PC hardware is what I do for a living, and this 8.4 Gbyte *standard* is a big deal to my state, federal and institutional contracts. For these non-standard implementations to be accepted, we have to jump though extra hoops (i.e. testing). Its rarely a problem to get them accepted as only a few BIOS's/drive firmware's are behind the curve so far as to fail our testing. > >Note > >that most of the newer PC's don't seem to have much problem with this at > >the hardware level, and most of these non-standard drive appear to work > >as advertised. > > The newer PC's work fine because they all implement the same spec to solve > the problem. There isn't a problem at the hardware level either because > nothing has changed at the hardware level to support more than 8.4 GB. > Essentially correct. To the BIOS, its just another big block device. But getting that block device to translate into a useable form has had its problems. Ask Fujitsu and Samsung about the firmware nightmare they went through last year... > > Operating systems don't think that some of these non-standard > >implementations are very funny, as turning a hard drive into a large > >number of blocks into a logical volume is not as easy as it sounds, and > >this can be made much more difficult when manufacturers start cutting > >corners on drive firmware... > > This makes no sense. Most older operating systems do not support the > BIOS extensions, but that's simply because they need to be updated, > not because anything funny is going on. Once the OS is booted, it's > up to the OS to support the drive's capacity, and nothing funny needs > to happen there either, until we get past 137 GB, which should happen > within a few years. This makes perfect sense. We have a great deal more trouble from idiosyncratic drive firmware than motherboard BIOS's. Sometimes things just don't translate like they should, and the O/S's have no choice but to "give up" on a drive with broken firmware. Its not the O/S's fault, of course, but all you can do is swap the drive for one that works properly. --R. Pelletier Sys Admin, House Galiagante We are a Micro$oft-free site To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 19:09:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:09:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13129 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA31969; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:08:31 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199902050308.TAA31969@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <36B98457.28E0CB39@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at "Feb 4, 99 08:28:23 pm" To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:08:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel C. Sobral writes: > > > 1) Links? That's awful. Configuration information should be put in a > > > FILE. > > > > Uh, we await your diffs to phkmalloc. Be sure to run them by Poul > > so he can reject them. 8-). > > I claim that's different, though not so confidently. The problem > with the "links" above is that the configuration information is the > *directory*, not the link by itself (as I have the vague impression > is the case you mention). The main reason a symlink is used is for speed, since almost every substantial program calls malloc(). Symlinks are much faster to read than opening a file and reading its contents. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 19:50:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18889 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from moth (moth.us.dell.com [143.166.169.152]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA06949; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:49:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204214937.00879b20@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:49:37 -0600 To: Avalon Books From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990204131321.00793ec0@bugs.us.dell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:00 PM 2/4/99 -0600, Avalon Books wrote: > Perhaps some clarifications are in order... > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Overfield wrote: >> This is false. All newer PC's implement the same INT 13 BIOS extensions >> to get around the original INT 13 BIOS's 8.4 GB limitation. > > I beg to differ. Well, have you seen a "newer PC" that doesn't implement INT 13 extensions, or are you confusing what I said with some other problem that you've seen? >PC hardware is what I do for a living, and this 8.4 >Gbyte *standard* is a big deal to my state, federal and >institutional contracts. Heh, same here, among other things. >For these non-standard implementations to be >accepted, we have to jump though extra hoops (i.e. testing). Its rarely a >problem to get them accepted as only a few BIOS's/drive firmware's are >behind the curve so far as to fail our testing. I was assuming the devices are not known to be defective. All bets are off for any *standardized* behavior of broken devices. > Essentially correct. To the BIOS, its just another big block device. >But getting that block device to translate into a useable form has had its >problems. Ask Fujitsu and Samsung about the firmware nightmare they went >through last year... Then they must have really bunged it up. I've not seen such a problem with any of the drive suppliers we use. >> > Operating systems don't think that some of these non-standard >> >implementations are very funny, as turning a hard drive into a large >> >number of blocks into a logical volume is not as easy as it sounds, and >> >this can be made much more difficult when manufacturers start cutting >> >corners on drive firmware... > > This makes perfect sense. We have a great deal more trouble from >idiosyncratic drive firmware than motherboard BIOS's. Sometimes things >just don't translate like they should, and the O/S's have no choice but to >"give up" on a drive with broken firmware. Its not the O/S's fault, of >course, but all you can do is swap the drive for one that works properly. There's no excuse for busted drive firmware, but you can't blame the "8.4 GB solution" which, as I said, works correctly if implemented properly. You implied that there are a bunch of nonstandard solutions to this problem, but that isn't true. I don't consider a bug in a particular drive's firmware to constitute a "nonstandard implementation." In my mind, and probably yours too, it is simply broken and needs to be replaced. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 20:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24054 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA10060; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:48:21 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199902050448.XAA10060@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:48:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36BA4603.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 4, 99 05:14:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Julian Elischer had to walk into mine and say: > Anyone seen bugs in fxp driver or mbuf related code recently? > > Here is a crash dump from a system about 10 days old (3.x series) > > We are willing to believe that we've done this (we do enough > networking stuff but I'm just looking to see if there > is anyone else that has seen this. > > julian > > #5 0xf015f320 in fxp_add_rfabuf (sc=0xf059ce00, oldm=0xf0390400) > at ../../pci/if_fxp.c:1535 [...] > MCLGET(m, M_DONTWAIT); <-------- error here. [...] > (kgdb) p mclfree > $3 = (union mcluster *) 0xa0225000 > > *cough* This means that either some code in the kernel has s stale pointer to an mbuf cluster and has modified it after it was released, or the Intel chip itself has been given the address of this cluster buffer and it DMA'ed data into it after it had been released. Unfortunately, the trashed buffer has already been reallocated by a call to MCLGET() immediately prior to this one; when you pull a cluster buffer off the free list, its first 4 bytes contains the address of the next buffer in the free list. (Well... I suppose it's 8 bytes on the alpha.) This address gets saved in mclfree and then the buffer gets handed out. If a buffer is trashed while it's sitting on the free list and then it gets reallocated, mclfree will be loaded with garbage, and the next time you call MCLGET(), hijinx will ensue. If you can reproduce the crash reliably, you might be able to catch mclfree getting clobbered by modifying the MCLGET() macro to test for 'reasonably sane' values when updating mclfree and then panic()ing if it spots an insane one. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 22:01:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00831 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id XAA04920; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:00:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990204230058.A4902@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:00:58 -0700 From: & Peters To: Drew Baxter , Terry Lambert Cc: ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <4.1.19990202201553.03c2ca30@genesis.ispace.com> <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> <4.1.19990204133817.03dba040@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990204133817.03dba040@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 01:41:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 01:41:23PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 04:15 AM 2/4/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >It was also my understanding from looking around that the Linux portion > >of MKLinux had full source code, but that portions of the MK portion of > >MKLinux was available as binaries, only. > > I'm really not sure.. I thought MKLinux was full source, but I haven't > really looked into it.. > > >Basically, I think there is some hardware left to puzzle out that > >you could not expect to get help from Apple when doing the puzzling. > > Well the thing is, most of "Apple's" Hardware isn't made by Apple. They > integrate the machines and make the ROM, but their Video is ATI, their > Ethernet (in some cases anyway) is Dayna.. Certainly not the latter anymore. Lamentably, Dayna is now a (very small) part of Intel; that's why I no longer work there. Gag! > Sure they have some designs they've done (I.e. Geoport modem).. But I think > you'll find that you wouldn't need to look to far except for the chipset to > find out what drivers you need. > > >If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy an iMac for a porting project, so > >let me know... > > I'd be interested in seeing it port in SOME form, even if just to get a > 'base' going to proceed further. I'm not sure how many people are > interested in screwing with an idea like this though. As I pointed out, NetBSD 1.3.3 will reportedly netboot on the iMac, but they can't seem to get enough information about OpenBoot to boot it from the disk. > PowerPC Chips run RS/6000's for AIX. Although I doubt AIX would run on a > Mac unless it was the X86 version in a Softwindows window. :) Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this kind of support. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 22:47:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:47:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04458 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:47:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA17011; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:47:15 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199902050647.IAA17011@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? In-Reply-To: <36BA4603.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Feb 4, 99 05:14:43 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:47:15 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone seen bugs in fxp driver or mbuf related code recently? > > Here is a crash dump from a system about 10 days old (3.x series) > > We are willing to believe that we've done this (we do enough > networking stuff but I'm just looking to see if there > is anyone else that has seen this. > I have seen something like this here while we were developing a piece of network code of our own. It was because there was a mbuf alloc that wasn't protected with at least splimp(). Remember that all the network driver interrupt routines will allocate mbufs and they run at splimp(), so all other places have to run at splimp() also. Anyway just a guess, it might not be your problem, but it was definitely ours. :-) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 23:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09661 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:35:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vaio.ispra.webweaving.org ([157.150.122.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09620 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:35:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from webweaving.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vaio.ispra.webweaving.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02216; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:11:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) X-MX-Masquarade: Passed MX vaio.ispra.webweaving.org at Vaio / WebWeaving X-No-Spam: Neither the originator(s) address(es) nor the Receipient(s) addresses are to be used for unsolicited commercial email (spam) as a per message fee is incurred for both inbound and outbound traffic Message-ID: <36BA99B9.851BB61D@webweaving.org> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:11:53 +0100 From: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" Organization: Web Weaving Consultancy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: zh, nl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Irratic Curve References: <36B97B38.74FF0B68@webweaving.org> <199902050005.QAA91618@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :... > :http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/performance/prelim.html > : > :Now could any one explain to me WHY freebsd appears so unpredicatable ? > :i.e. not a nice S-curve ? Is that the way of measuring ? Some other > :artifact, or real ? I think it is real, as I get the same sort of > :holes in my graphs for the transaction server. > : > :Any chances on an expose.... > : > :Dw > > If you want a transactional connection over TCP to go fast, you generally > have to turn off nagle. > > { > int one = 1; > setsockopt(fd, IPPROTO_TCP, TCP_NODELAY, &one, sizeof(one)); > } > Actually, I am doing that, as well as various other kernel and buffer mods. But the issue I wanted to bring up was that on Linux and Solarus, you get nice n.log(n) and S shaped curves for rtt/size or speed/size etc. For freebsd that does not seem the case. Now this does not meen that FreeBSD is 'worse'. But I am curious to the background/engineering of this. Why is it not a clear S shaped curve, perhaps with one or two jumps when you cross something like an MTU or ethernet-frame size. Dw To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 4 23:47:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:47:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from colin.muc.de (colin.muc.de [193.174.4.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10998 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lutz@muc.de) Received: from tavari.muc.de ([193.174.4.22]) by colin.muc.de with SMTP id <140565-3>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:47:30 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tavari.muc.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA25328; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:35:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from abraxas(192.168.42.5) by morranon via smap (V2.1) id xma025325; Fri, 5 Feb 99 08:35:35 +0100 Message-ID: <36BA9CA4.265C6E6C@muc.de> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:24:20 +0100 From: Lutz Albers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jon Hamilton CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /var/db/pkg problem after aout->elf References: <19990204194208.EA84545859@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jon Hamilton wrote: > > allows me to update to the latest ported versions "for free" anyway - with > one minor hassle: anything with a.out libraries can't be removed with > pkg_delete, because the packing list still thinks the libraries live > in e.g. /usr/local/lib rather than /usr/local/lib/aout. Of course, > I can use pkg_delete -v, find the complaints, and remove the offending > libs by hand, but it occurs to me that it might be nice to update the > packing lists during ``make aout-to-elf''. I did that updating (updating from 2.2.* to 3.0) myself a few weeks ago. I just did a pgk_delete -f to force the removing of the package, leaving the old a.out libs in their compat directories. I wouldn't dare to remove them, as I have quite a lot of self-compiled software that might use them. ciao lutz -- Lutz Albers, lutz@muc.de, pgp key available from Do not take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 02:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28585 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA11083; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:46:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36BAAAC3.469DAA06@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:24:35 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn CC: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Incredibly bad ideas References: <64244.918164186@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > Is this a misperception? If the vast majority of users wanted something > that was an incredibly bad idea, would it be adopted within FreeBSD or > turfed out? It just so happens that when a vast majority of users want something, quite a few of them happen to be committers too, and thus make the notion of what is an "incredibly bad idea" a little confusing. Case in point, sendfile(). Without laying down any judgment, I have heard plenty convincing opinions that this is an "incredibly bad idea". I, myself, can't shake a feeling that this a hack. But there were plenty people clamoring for it, and I guess there were committers/core members that did not think it as an "incredibly bad idea". So, while the theoretical question is interesting, I guess it will never happen in reality. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 05:03:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13303 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [208.221.12.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13298 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA25497; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:01:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902051301.FAA25497@implode.root.com> To: John Hay cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seen fxp or mbuf problems? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 05 Feb 1999 08:47:15 +0200." <199902050647.IAA17011@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 05:01:01 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Anyone seen bugs in fxp driver or mbuf related code recently? >> >> Here is a crash dump from a system about 10 days old (3.x series) >> >> We are willing to believe that we've done this (we do enough >> networking stuff but I'm just looking to see if there >> is anyone else that has seen this. >> > >I have seen something like this here while we were developing a piece >of network code of our own. It was because there was a mbuf alloc >that wasn't protected with at least splimp(). Remember that all the >network driver interrupt routines will allocate mbufs and they run >at splimp(), so all other places have to run at splimp() also. > >Anyway just a guess, it might not be your problem, but it was definitely >ours. :-) All mbuf allocations done through the MGET macros have inherent splimp protection. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 05:23:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15741 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15735 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:23:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4006.ime.net [209.90.195.16]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id IAA45730; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:22:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990205081221.03c2ef10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:22:48 -0500 To: & Peters , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990204230058.A4902@softweyr.com> References: <4.1.19990204133817.03dba040@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990202201553.03c2ca30@genesis.ispace.com> <199902040915.CAA09079@usr04.primenet.com> <4.1.19990204133817.03dba040@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:00 AM 2/5/99 , & Peters wrote: > >Certainly not the latter anymore. Lamentably, Dayna is now a (very small) >part of Intel; that's why I no longer work there. Gag! Never really used Dayna products.. Most of the stuff here is Addtron or 3com. The Mac stuff is Apple Ether or Asante.. I don't really like machines that come with integrated Ethernet, you never know what you're gonna get. >As I pointed out, NetBSD 1.3.3 will reportedly netboot on the iMac, >but they can't seem to get enough information about OpenBoot to >boot it from the disk. I wonder if it has to do with that ghastly move away from SCSI to favor IDE.. That caused some problems with MKLinux back initially.. I think they've fixed it as of now. >Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They >have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server >PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this >kind of support. Starmax's are nice machines, I did one up pretty well. Apple stretched licensing costs on them and they left the scene, really sucks, as it goes the board was made by Apple anyway. Does IBM sell a hacked up copy of AIX to run on them? Or is it just part of the install for the RS/6000 release? Linux has a lot of support unfortunately. Almost has become a name like Mickey Mouse, especially lately. Personally I think the Daemon is cooler than the Penguin (who looks stoned off his..) But that's just me. One way to get around it would be to have a linuxcc or something so you could on-the-fly build native Linux apps. I installed the Linux libs and the Linux devel, but it still didn't work out for most of the stuff I was trying to build. If you can't beat it, emulate it :) But all in all I'd say the support for FreeBSD has risen some, and I don't feel bad about conning all of those people into running it yet :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 05:27:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16346 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16338 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23625; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:31:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199902051331.IAA23625@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:28:23 +0900." <36B98457.28E0CB39@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:31:42 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dcs@newsguy.com said: :- Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. I'm against both! See my earlier remarks about configuration mamagement. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 06:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19919 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:01:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19905 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id NAA92540; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:59:21 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:59:20 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Chuck Robey Cc: Wilko Bulte , nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, julian@whistle.com, root@triton.press.southern.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990205135920.E50696@florence.pavilion.net> References: <199902041906.UAA02466@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 06:08:46PM -0500 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-1273-607072 Fax: +44-1273-607073 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 06:08:46PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Labeled 1.1? Mine definitely says 1.0 > > I have the 1.0, but I was referring to the 1.1. He was talking about > 1.1.5.1, and I think the 1.1 cdrom is the closest cdrom release to that. > There wasn't any fubar done on the 1.0 cdrom, just the 1.1. > Can't you just check the version you want out of the CVS and build a new CD build yourself? Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 06:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23202 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23196 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10887 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:26:11 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:21:57 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Memory leak in pthread? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just simple program: #define MAX_THREADS 500 while(1) { for(i=0;i Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay03.indigo.ie (relay03.indigo.ie [194.125.133.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29787 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsmart@kira.team400.ie) Received: (qmail 1719 messnum 46286 invoked from network[194.125.214.13/pc214-13.indigo.ie]); 5 Feb 1999 15:15:00 -0000 Received: from pc214-13.indigo.ie (HELO kira.team400.ie) (194.125.214.13) by relay03.indigo.ie (qp 1719) with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 15:15:00 -0000 Message-ID: <36BB0B01.3F7DDD96@kira.team400.ie> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 15:15:13 +0000 From: Niall Smart Organization: Trinity Commerce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: O.S. Resource Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is slightly off-topic, but the following URL will probably interest most readers: "The Operating System Resource Center" http://www.skylab.org/~sabre/os/index.html Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 08:23:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07596 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07591 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ik26+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu (PO9.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA05795 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ik26+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id LAA26222 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs6.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:22:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs6.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:22:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.PC.3.2.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs6.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.pcs6.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:22:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:22:47 -0500 (EST) From: Ilhwan Kwon To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: [help] creating system calls Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. I am trying to write my own system call functions for BSD. I am trying to calculate the maximum amount of memory a PC needs when it is used as a router. First, I declare "u_long max_memused" in /usr/src/sys/sys/mbuf.h. Second, I add following code in m_devget function in /usr/src/sys/kern/uipc_mbuf.c. u_long mem_used = size of memory currently used by mbufs and clusters. if(mem_used > max_memused) max_memused = mem_used; Third, I make prototype for my system calls in mbuf.h like following. long get_mem_stat __P((void)); void clear_mem_stat __P((void)); Fourth, I declare above system calls in uipc_mbuf.c like following. long get_mem_stat(){ return (long) max_memused; } void clear_mem_stat(){ max_memused = 0; } Fifth, I put entries in init_sysent.c like following. struct sysent sysent[] = { /*......*/ {0, (*sy_call)get_mem_stat}, /*241 = get_mem_stat */ {0, (*sy_call)clear_mem_stat}, /*242 = clear_mem_stat */ /* ..... */ }; the 241th and 242th wer originally looked like {0, (*sy_call)no_sys}, finally, I put entries in syscalls.c "get_mem_stat" /*241 = get_mem_stat*/ "clear_mem_stat" /*242 = clear_mem_stat*/ they were originally "no_sys". Now, I recompile the kernel and reboot. but kernel library is not updated. I copy /usr/src/sys/sys/mbuf.h to /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. I write a small program which includes and calls get_mem_stat and clear_mem_stat system calls. Whe I compile, I get "get_mem_stat" : undefined reference from the text segent" "clear_mem_stat" : undefined reference from the text segent" What did I do wrong? Any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks -James Kwon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 08:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08235 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08229 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@cadaverene.neptho.net) Received: from cadaverene.neptho.net (IDENT:bright@neptho.net [207.88.23.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA06192 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@cadaverene.neptho.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cadaverene.neptho.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17390; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:11 -0800 (PST) From: notso To: Ilhwan Kwon cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [help] creating system calls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Ilhwan Kwon wrote: > Hi. > > I am trying to write my own system call functions for BSD. > I am trying to calculate the maximum amount of memory a PC needs > when it is used as a router. > First, I declare "u_long max_memused" in /usr/src/sys/sys/mbuf.h. > void clear_mem_stat __P((void)); ... > I write a small program which includes and calls get_mem_stat > and clear_mem_stat system calls. > > Whe I compile, I get > "get_mem_stat" : undefined reference from the text segent" > "clear_mem_stat" : undefined reference from the text segent" You must add the functions to libc. look at: /usr/src/lib/libc/sys/* you can use your functions without modifing libc if you use the SYSCALL macro stuff to do it in your .c file -Alfred > > What did I do wrong? > Any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > -James Kwon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 09:40:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17873 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17868 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:40:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-72-140.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.72.140]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07810; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:40:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from wghicks (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA33170; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:57:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199902051757.MAA33170@bellsouth.net> To: Wilko Bulte Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet cardn In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 22:14:50 +0100." <199902042114.WAA04177@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:57:09 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Wilko, I suppose you're aware that the 21143 is not strictly compatible with the 21140? VxWorks, Linux, and quite a few other OS's are playing catch-up with this SNAFU too... ISTR that Mike Smith had worked on something related to 21143 compatibility. Don't know if it is finished. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 09:49:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18755 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:49:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18746 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id BAA31100; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:48:46 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199902051748.BAA31100@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: W Gerald Hicks cc: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 100baseTX problems with the DE500 ethernet cardn In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:57:09 EST." <199902051757.MAA33170@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:48:46 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG W Gerald Hicks wrote: > Hi Wilko, > > I suppose you're aware that the 21143 is not strictly compatible with > the 21140? VxWorks, Linux, and quite a few other OS's are playing > catch-up with this SNAFU too... > > ISTR that Mike Smith had worked on something related to 21143 > compatibility. Don't know if it is finished. The funny thing is that I suggested to somebody to get a stack of 2114x cards before they disappeared. They got a handful of netgear FA310TX cards with 21143's on them. They worked first go, but that was with replicated systems that had 3.0-current's if_de driver on a very hacked 2.2.8. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 12:28:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:28:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24909 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA22959; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:04:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199902052004.HAA22959@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Memory leak in pthread? In-Reply-To: from "Sergey S. Kosyakov" at "Feb 5, 1999 5:21:57 pm" To: ks@itp.ac.ru (Sergey S. Kosyakov) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:04:18 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > This programm very quickly eats all the virtual memory. In "freebsd-hackers > archive" I found some words about thread management by hand. More complicated > program, where stacks are allocated/deallocated by malloc()/free() for each > thread, eats memory not so quickly, but still eats, e.g. resident size (for each You need to detach the threads. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 12:37:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26647 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:37:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from epistolic.cynic.net (epistolic.cynic.net [199.175.137.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26638 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@cynic.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by epistolic.cynic.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA03462; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:20:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:20:44 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Niall Smart cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: O.S. Resource Center In-Reply-To: <36BB0B01.3F7DDD96@kira.team400.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Niall Smart wrote: > This is slightly off-topic, but the following URL will probably > interest most readers: > > "The Operating System Resource Center" > http://www.skylab.org/~sabre/os/index.html That should be renamed the `OSes that Use i386 Hardware Resource Centre.' There's nothing on OpenProm, for example, despite the fact that it's used on many machines with many operating systems. And let's not get into the lack of information on memory management for any CPU but the i386 series.... cjs -- Curt Sampson 604 801 5335 De gustibus, aut bene aut nihil. The most widely ported operating system in the world: http://www.netbsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 12:42:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27650 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:42:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m108pnX-000I1pC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:16:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) Subject: 3.0-stable query To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:16:11 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I notice that config does not recognize the 'pseudo-device bpfilter 4' specification, and apparently bpfiltering is included automatically. Will this be corrected before 3.1? Regards, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 13:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:50:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com (gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07960 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com; id MAA19913; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:38:02 -0600 Received: from stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com(stlabcexg004 151.145.101.160) by gatewaya via smap (V2.1) id xma019895; Fri, 5 Feb 99 12:37:45 -0600 Received: by stlabcexg004.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1KANNZXX>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:40:00 -0000 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: C headers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:39:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why does printf() non need #include like the man page says? -------------------------------------- foo.c int mean(int a, int b) { return (a + b) / 2; } int main() { int i = 0, j = 0, answer = 0; i = 7; j = 9; answer = mean(i, j); printf("The mean of %d and %d is %d\n", i, j, answer); return 0; } ---------------------------------------------- builds without a #include . A student asked me why and I can't explain this inconsistency. Matthew Alton Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration (314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com alton@plantnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 13:53:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08363 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from henny.plazza.it (va-187.skylink.it [194.177.113.187]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA32473; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:51:06 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.jrc.it (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA01024; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:16:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:16:00 +0100 (CET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@henny.jrc.it Reply-To: hibma@skylink.it To: Doug Rabson cc: Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > the world is a USB port? > > SGI just started selling them. What's wrong with iMac's? Nick FreeBSD USB Driver Development -- e-mail: n_hibma@freebsd.org home page: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl mailing list: usb-bsd@egroups.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 13:55:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08659 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03029; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:56:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00881; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:38:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id QAA01582; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:57:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:57:25 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199902052157.QAA01582@lakes.dignus.com> To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: C headers In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why does printf() non need #include like the man page says? It works because - without a declaration, printf() is assumed to be a function that can accept any number of arguments (promoted via the K&R promotion rules), that returns an int. So - in this case, the compiler simply emits code to call the printf() function. And, since you didn't use the (compiler assumed) return value - didn't bother to look at it. Using the Systems/C compiler (a C compiler for 370 mainframes) you would get a nice warning message that printf() isn't declared. (try it your code on http://www.dignus.com) - Dave Rivers - > > -------------------------------------- foo.c > int > mean(int a, int b) > { > return (a + b) / 2; > } > > int > main() > { > int i = 0, j = 0, answer = 0; > > i = 7; > j = 9; > > answer = mean(i, j); > printf("The mean of %d and %d is %d\n", i, j, answer); > > return 0; > } > ---------------------------------------------- > > builds without a #include . A student asked me why and I can't explain > this inconsistency. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 13:58:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:54:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08527 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA99560; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:54:03 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199902052154.NAA99560@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Alton, Matthew" Cc: "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: C headers References: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Try compiling with -Wall to turn on warnings and see what happens. cc -Wall x.c -o x -Matt Matthew Dillon :Why does printf() non need #include like the man page says? : :-------------------------------------- foo.c :int :mean(int a, int b) :{ : return (a + b) / 2; :} : :int :main() :{ : int i = 0, j = 0, answer = 0; : : i = 7; : j = 9; : : answer = mean(i, j); : printf("The mean of %d and %d is %d\n", i, j, answer); : : return 0; :} :---------------------------------------------- : :builds without a #include . A student asked me why and I can't explain :this inconsistency. : : :Matthew Alton :Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration :(314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com : alton@plantnet.com : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 14:02:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09376 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09308 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:02:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA00956 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdCaQ949; Fri Feb 5 21:59:55 1999 Message-ID: <36BB69D6.62319AC4@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:59:50 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Many packages unable to load. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I tried installing some packages recently from a 3.x SNAP but was unable to proceed easily due to a single problem. The reason is that many packages seem to have a prerequisite of me first loading the "XFree86.3.3.2" package.. firstly: there is no such package on the places where I was getting the packages. secondly: I just loaded the X distribution when I loaded the machine so why didn't it register that 'package file' into /var/db/pkg. The version of X loaded was actually down rev by 0.0.1, but that shouldn't matter, so the packages should be looking for a slightly less specific version. I don't want to reload a new X system every time I install a new package that uses X. I ended up being able to load by copying the var/db/pkg/gmake??? to /var/db/pkg/XFree86.3.3.2 and zeroing out anythign to do with gmake.. so it LOOKED as if I'd loaded XFree86.3.3.2 Is anyone lookign at these issues? what SHOULD I have done? julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 14:53:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (b133.mat.net [206.246.122.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15618 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:53:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA34913; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:50:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Josef Karthauser cc: Wilko Bulte , nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, julian@whistle.com, root@triton.press.southern.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting older versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990205135920.E50696@florence.pavilion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Thu, Feb 04, 1999 at 06:08:46PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Labeled 1.1? Mine definitely says 1.0 > > > > I have the 1.0, but I was referring to the 1.1. He was talking about > > 1.1.5.1, and I think the 1.1 cdrom is the closest cdrom release to that. > > There wasn't any fubar done on the 1.0 cdrom, just the 1.1. > > > > Can't you just check the version you want out of the CVS and build a new > CD build yourself? I didn't understand cvs back then, but that's not your point, I think. When FreeBSD had all the legal problems, when we had to go to the new BSD 4.4 codebase ('helped' along legally by AT&T) the old code base had to go into the dumper. I don't think anything older than FreeBSD version 2.0 is in the cvs archive anymore. If you want old stuff, you have to rely on friends. The demand isn't overwhelming; while most everyone from that era remembers the reliability of 1.1.5.1, our newest code base is *so* improved, I wouldn't swap. Like I said before, I have those old cdroms (so do many of us). If you get Jordan's ok, I'd be happy to copy them for media costs and mail costs. I don't *think* WC can sell those anymore, else I wouldn't offer this at all. > > Joe > -- > Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? > Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) > Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 15:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17021 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17010 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m108uBl-000I1mC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:57:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: USB minor glitch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:57:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A minor USB glitch. 3.0-stable as of this afternoon. I have a ASUS Tx97 with on-board uhci0 controller. If I compile a kernel without also specifying 'controller ohci0' when I boot the system, all seems normal, but when it gets to the login prompt, all kinds of garbage starts being written dynamically to the screen. Either removing the USB stuff or adding the missing controller entry gets rid of the problem. Regards, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 15:08:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA17013 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.102.232]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <60885(2)>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:06 PST Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com (localhost.parc.xerox.com [127.0.0.1]) by mango.parc.xerox.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15039; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:07:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@mango.parc.xerox.com) Message-Id: <199902052307.PAA15039@mango.parc.xerox.com> To: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-stable query In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:16:11 PST." Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:07:59 PST From: Bill Fenner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message you write: >I notice that config does not recognize the >'pseudo-device bpfilter 4' specification, What do you mean by "does not recognize"? >and apparently bpfiltering is included automatically. Nope. % sed -e '/bpfilter/s/^/#/' < FENESTRO > FENESTRO2 % config FENESTRO Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' Kernel build directory is ../../compile/FENESTRO % config FENESTRO2 Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' Kernel build directory is ../../compile/FENESTRO2 % cd ../../compile/FENESTRO % grep -i bpf * Makefile: bpf.o bpf_filter.o if.o if_ethersubr.o if_loop.o if_media.o \ Makefile: $S/net/bpf.c $S/net/bpf_filter.c $S/net/if.c \ Makefile:bpf.o: $S/net/bpf.c Makefile:bpf_filter.o: $S/net/bpf_filter.c bpfilter.h:#define NBPFILTER 16 config.c:___# The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be\n\ config.c:___# simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable.\n\ config.c:___pseudo-device bpfilter 16 #Berkeley packet filter\n\ % cd ../../compile/FENESTRO2 % grep -i bpf * bpfilter.h:#define NBPFILTER 0 config.c:___## The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be\n\ config.c:___# simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable.\n\ config.c:___#pseudo-device bpfilter 16 #Berkeley packet filter\n\ This is a 3.0 sup'd around noon PST on February 5, 1998. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 15:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21937 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:51:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drew@pluto.plutotech.com) Received: (from drew@localhost) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA17773; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drew) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:51:19 -0700 (MST) From: Drew Eckhardt Message-Id: <199902052351.QAA17773@pluto.plutotech.com> To: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C headers In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> you write: >Why does printf() non need #include like the man page says? Because K&R doesn't require function prototypes and you don't use any types or pre-processor macros defined in the header. Things would be different if you used fprintf(3). In any case, including is a good idea because it allows prototypes which take advantage of gcc's printf-format string prototype extension (why doesn't do this?) to verify that the arguments match what's been passed in. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 16:03:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA24752 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <61289(1)>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:03:15 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177534>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:03:06 -0800 To: "Dirk-Willem van Gulik (vaio)" cc: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Irratic Curve In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 99 23:11:53 PST." <36BA99B9.851BB61D@webweaving.org> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:02:54 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <99Feb5.160306pst.177534@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Using the "database of results" from http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/ shows that after they turned off delayed ACKs, the curves were much smoother. This indicates that the problem is probably the interaction of Nagle, mbuf sizes, and delayed ACK's, which is fixed in -current and 3.1 . Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 16:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:44:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00676 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25640; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd025557; Fri Feb 5 17:44:46 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20812; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:44:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060044.RAA20812@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:44:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902041927.LAA19876@vashon.polstra.com> from "John Polstra" at Feb 4, 99 11:27:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Having experienced both sides of this, what I think would be good would > > be to be able to edit the RPATH in executables. That would allow the > > sysadmin to override it selectively. I don't know if that is feasible > > or not. > > That would be useful, but I'm afraid it may not be feasible for > executables. The RPATH string is in the .dynstr section, which > precedes text, data, and bss in the address space. If you made the > string longer, it would change the load addresses of text, data, and > bss. But executables don't contain the relocation information needed > for making the necessary adjustments in that case. Sounds like it's in the wrong order in the file... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 16:50:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01564 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01552 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25331; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025280; Fri Feb 5 17:50:37 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21166; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:50:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060050.RAA21166@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:50:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902041920.LAA19846@vashon.polstra.com> from "John Polstra" at Feb 4, 99 11:20:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Not at all. On the contrary, you're the fellow demanding that > "ldconfig must die" and then looking to the FreeBSD development team > to make the change (against the loudly expressed wishes of the vast > majority of our users) and take the heat for it. As an interesting side not to this, I was shot in the head by the a.out ld.so just recently. What happenend was several machines were upgraded from a.out to a stabilized version of 3.0, and some a.out programs ran, while others did not. The failure, in all cases, was an FP exception on the a.out executable being run. Attempting to ldd the binary in question also resulted in an FP exception, while on the binaries that ran, ldd ran fine. Installing the missing a.out shared libraries fixed both the ldd problem and the execution problem. Looks like a nasty bug in the a.out compatability ld.so. The problem was a bit more insidious, as well. The ldconfig that was run at the start didn't find the missing libraries (for the obvious reasons). So even when the libraries were really there, that ld.so didn't fall back to paths when it failed to find hashed data required that ldconfig be rerun. Just an interesting data point that might explain some FP exception complaints... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:05:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03713 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:05:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03704 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02072; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001955; Fri Feb 5 18:04:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21930; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:04:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060104.SAA21930@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries To: cyouse@icon.com (Chuck Youse) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:04:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Youse" at Feb 4, 99 04:05:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Oh, just boot this asshole. Uh, have you read /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/doc/README? You may also want to look at the XConsortium version control tags on basically all of the files. You've got to take Kaleb's perspective into account: he's one of the few people dealing with FreeBSD from an application programmer perspective, where he needs certain capabilities from the system, and certain aspects of the system are rather obtrusive. You'll find that David Dawes, who is in the same position as Kaleb, tends to voice some of the same concerns. You'll also find that I, and others, who care about FreeBSD's ability to succeed in the mainstream instead of as a lab curiousity tend to bring up similar issues (not that you should respect me in particular; I'm just giving examples). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03900 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03164; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:06:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA31729; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:06:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902060044.RAA20812@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:06:46 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: >> > Having experienced both sides of this, what I think would be good would >> > be to be able to edit the RPATH in executables. That would allow the >> > sysadmin to override it selectively. I don't know if that is feasible >> > or not. >> >> That would be useful, but I'm afraid it may not be feasible for >> executables. The RPATH string is in the .dynstr section, which >> precedes text, data, and bss in the address space. If you made the >> string longer, it would change the load addresses of text, data, and >> bss. But executables don't contain the relocation information needed >> for making the necessary adjustments in that case. > > Sounds like it's in the wrong order in the file... No it's not. It's a read-only section (section, not segment), so at load time it needs to end up in a read-only segment (segment, not section). On most OSs the only read-only segment is the text segment. So it has to be in the same segment as text. Given that, it doesn't matter whether it comes before or after the actual program code, because in either case it will precede the data segment. Therefore, changing its size will move the data segment. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:09:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04111 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:09:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03184; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA31734; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902060050.RAA21166@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:07:27 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > As an interesting side not to this, I was shot in the head by > the a.out ld.so just recently. > > What happenend was several machines were upgraded from a.out to > a stabilized version of 3.0, and some a.out programs ran, while > others did not. > > The failure, in all cases, was an FP exception on the a.out > executable being run. > > Attempting to ldd the binary in question also resulted in an > FP exception, while on the binaries that ran, ldd ran fine. > > Installing the missing a.out shared libraries fixed both the ldd > problem and the execution problem. > > Looks like a nasty bug in the a.out compatability ld.so. Test case, please. --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:16:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04936 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07042; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd007004; Fri Feb 5 18:16:22 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22700; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:16:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060116.SAA22700@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:16:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dhw@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902050308.TAA31969@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Feb 4, 99 07:08:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > 1) Links? That's awful. Configuration information should be put in a > > > > FILE. > > > > > > Uh, we await your diffs to phkmalloc. Be sure to run them by Poul > > > so he can reject them. 8-). > > > > I claim that's different, though not so confidently. The problem > > with the "links" above is that the configuration information is the > > *directory*, not the link by itself (as I have the vague impression > > is the case you mention). > > The main reason a symlink is used is for speed, since almost > every substantial program calls malloc(). > > Symlinks are much faster to read than opening a file and reading > its contents. Note that I was referring explicitly to his blanket statement. The use of links in the rc.d case is to multiply services into different run levels (should be states). The use of the symlink in the phkmalloc case is an abuse of links to implement what are, effectively, "immediate files". Note that I condone this abuse, since something that lets you do bad things also lets you do clever things (like this). In the rc.d case, the complaint is general raised to fend off an increase in complexity. The people who want to increase the complexity want to do so so they can do clever things. The people who want to keep the status quo are the people who don't want to do those things, and so the change looks like change for change's sake. That's their perspective, and you have to respect that until you can wear them down. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05838 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05704 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:22:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07382; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd007252; Fri Feb 5 18:21:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22918; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:21:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: wes@softweyr.com (& Peters) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:21:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, tlambert@primenet.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990204230058.A4902@softweyr.com> from "& Peters" at Feb 4, 99 11:00:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They > have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server > PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this > kind of support. Maybe if FreeBSD had something Linux didn't that Motorola really, really wanted. Like maybe hard RT with first-deadline-first scheduling. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 17:27:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:27:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06212 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12694; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:27:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012637; Fri Feb 5 18:27:18 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23350; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:27:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:27:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902051331.IAA23625@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Feb 5, 99 08:31:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > dcs@newsguy.com said: > :- Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. > > I'm against both! See my earlier remarks about configuration mamagement. How do you propose to solve the Solaris binary compatability problem for commercial Solaris applications that install components into the rc.d directories in order to get them run at the correct time and in the correct order for dependent services requirements? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10048 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10043 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:01:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02250 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdbx2245; Sat Feb 6 01:59:42 1999 Message-ID: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:59:27 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BSD trivia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just in case you get offered an iMAC somewhere.. NetBSD boots nicely on it. In fact the imacs have a Net-boot built into the eeprom so if you hit 'N' when you hear the gong (and hold it) it'll send out dhcp/bootp requests and if you supply it with the current NetBSD distribution kernel, it'll boot nicely running an NFS root. That little {strawberry, lime, bannana, blueberry, ???} machine looks so cool with those Xterm windows :-) Doug Ambrisko here has been setting it up and 'tis cool! Good job by the NetBSD folk!! (The ISC dhcp daemon apparently need a patch to DTRT) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:03:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10279 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:03:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10274 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23898; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023852; Fri Feb 5 19:03:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA26063; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:03:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060203.TAA26063@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: O.S. Resource Center To: cjs@cynic.net (Curt Sampson) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:03:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nsmart@kira.team400.ie, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Curt Sampson" at Feb 5, 99 12:20:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This is slightly off-topic, but the following URL will probably > > interest most readers: > > > > "The Operating System Resource Center" > > http://www.skylab.org/~sabre/os/index.html > > That should be renamed the `OSes that Use i386 Hardware Resource > Centre.' There's nothing on OpenProm, for example, despite the fact > that it's used on many machines with many operating systems. And > let's not get into the lack of information on memory management > for any CPU but the i386 series.... Or "The Linux Resource Center", since there's nothing on non-Linux FS's in the FS section. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:05:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10396 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:05:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10391 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20578; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd020472; Fri Feb 5 19:02:19 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25935; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:01:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060201.TAA25935@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: C headers To: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com (Alton, Matthew) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:01:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF90177670F@STLABCEXG011> from "Alton, Matthew" at Feb 5, 99 06:39:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why does printf() non need #include like the man page says? > A student asked me why and I can't explain this inconsistency. If you can explain symbol decoration in C++ objects, you can explain why ANSI C requires prototypes in scope, not necessarily for compilation and linking to succeed, but for proper function. Header files are only needed if you require a prototype in scope to deal with type promotion issues. In general, the only C code that needs prototypes in scope is code where the type promotion is not to type "int". For most general purpose computer architectures (e.g., ones which implement function arguments with promotion to int and passing on the stack), this is not a problem. For functions that accept/return types larger than "int" (i.e., where "int" would represent a demotion in size), you will run into problems. Such functions include any of the functions or system calls that take an off_t argument (for example: lseek). You will also run into problems with functions that take structure pointers or return them (example: stat), since the structure will not be defined without the header files. You can see similar promotion related problems that ANSI failed to address in the printf(3) function call. Specifically, examine the output of: #include main() { long long q_num = -3; long l_num = -3; int i_num = -3; short s_num = -3; char c_num = -3; printf( "a signed quad -3 is: %qx\n", q_num); printf( "a signed long -3 is: %lx\n", l_num); printf( "a signed int -3 is: %x\n", i_num); printf( "a signed short -3 is: %hx\n", s_num); printf( "a signed char -3 is: %x\n", c_num); } The type promotion results in a sign extension error. Probably the proper connection would be to provide a "b" (for "byte") modifier to the "x" and "X" types, e.g.: printf( "a signed char -3 is: %bx\n", num); But using prototypes is actually a kludge around the fact that the declaration and usage information is not stored in the symbol definition for the function in the object file format, since if it were, failure to abide by calling conventions could be caught at link time, and would not have required complicating the language (there are arguments that "C++ will replace C, so making the code compilable with C++, which *demands* prototypes, is good"; people who don't buy into C++ replacing C don't buy this argument). Like "decorated" symbols in C++ works around the lack of class attribution and overloading information in the object format, so prototypes in scope in C files are meant to work around the lack of argument and return type information for C functions. So the fact that you will potentially get undetectable errors if you compile without a prototype in scope can really be blamed on lazy compiler writers who didn't want to update their linker technology at the same time that they were adding assumptions to their compiler. Anyway, use the header files, and use the warning flags (they should probably default "on", but I'll bet the compiler won't compile if you do that 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11200 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAB28675; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:17:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028639; Fri Feb 5 19:17:44 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA26924; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:17:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060217.TAA26924@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:17:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "John Polstra" at Feb 5, 99 05:06:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> That would be useful, but I'm afraid it may not be feasible for > >> executables. The RPATH string is in the .dynstr section, which > >> precedes text, data, and bss in the address space. If you made the > >> string longer, it would change the load addresses of text, data, and > >> bss. But executables don't contain the relocation information needed > >> for making the necessary adjustments in that case. > > > > Sounds like it's in the wrong order in the file... > > No it's not. It's a read-only section (section, not segment), so at > load time it needs to end up in a read-only segment (segment, not > section). On most OSs the only read-only segment is the text segment. > So it has to be in the same segment as text. Given that, it doesn't > matter whether it comes before or after the actual program code, > because in either case it will precede the data segment. Therefore, > changing its size will move the data segment. I think we are talking at cross purposes here. You are saying that the section is read-only to the program. I am saying that it shouldn't be read-only to a tool to manipulate the section contents. In that regard, the location of the section should be after the executable code. In reality, the problem is that the executable portion of the code needs to map in at a relative page address. In theory, you should be able to locate the executable code anywhere in the file, as long as you didn't change its relative page alignment, since the virtual and real offsets only need to match up on page boundaries. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:27:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11985 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:27:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11252; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011220; Fri Feb 5 19:27:44 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27571; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:27:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060227.TAA27571@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:27:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "John Polstra" at Feb 5, 99 05:07:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Attempting to ldd the binary in question also resulted in an > > FP exception, while on the binaries that ran, ldd ran fine. > > > > Installing the missing a.out shared libraries fixed both the ldd > > problem and the execution problem. > > > > Looks like a nasty bug in the a.out compatability ld.so. > > Test case, please. 1) Install an a.out FreeBSD. 2) Install an a.out X Windows. 3) Install fvwm95 in /usr/local/bin, and all it's dependencies into /usr/X11R6. 4) Verify fvwm95 runs. 5) Move the old /usr/X11R6 to /usr/X11R6-aout. 6) Upgrade FreeBSD to ELF using sysinstall so that you don't accidently rebuild fvwm95. 7) Install the ELF X11R6. 8) Reboot some time After step 5, if you haven't already, in order to flush out the ldconfig. 9) Attempt to start X. 10) Watch fvwm95 get "signal 8". 11) Attempt to "ldd" fvwm95. 12) Watch ldd get "signal 8". 13) link the missing a.out shared libraries into /usr/X11R6's lib/aout directory from /usr/X11R6-aout's lib directory. 14) Run ldconfig (or reboot). 15) Attempt to start X. 16) See X work. I have made some simplifications here; fvwm95 was actually installed on an NFS server, but running against local shared libraries, so the /usr/local/bin hack was to simulate an a.out programinstalled without its dependent libraries. If you have an a.out FreeBSD box with some a.out packages installed, trying to run them via an NFS mount of that box from an ELF FreeBSD box should give the same results, since it did on about 10 machines here. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12349 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12344 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03571; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:30:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd003357; Fri Feb 5 19:30:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27666; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:29:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060229.TAA27666@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: USB drivers To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:29:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, tlambert@primenet.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 99 01:21:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since this is the thread: Apparently the NetBSD code can find the IDE drive, as shown by Doug Ambrisko netbooting an iMac with NetBSD, and the dmesg showing both IDE controllers and the disk and CDROM attached to each, respectively. Time to start a freebsd-imac list... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:31:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12425 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:31:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12484; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012414; Fri Feb 5 19:31:22 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27824; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:31:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060231.TAA27824@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD trivia To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:31:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 5, 99 05:59:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just in case you get offered an iMAC somewhere.. [ ... ] > That little {strawberry, lime, bannana, blueberry, ???} machine > looks so cool with those Xterm windows :-) I'm looking forward to installing fvwm95 so that people will think it's running Windows. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:37:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12840 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12833 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4036.ime.net [209.90.195.46]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA46582; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:37:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990205213624.03997da0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:36:49 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902060229.TAA27666@usr02.primenet.com> References: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:29 PM 2/5/99 , Terry Lambert wrote: >Since this is the thread: > >Apparently the NetBSD code can find the IDE drive, as shown by >Doug Ambrisko netbooting an iMac with NetBSD, and the dmesg >showing both IDE controllers and the disk and CDROM attached >to each, respectively. > >Time to start a freebsd-imac list... Well Let me know when this happens, and I'll add myself :) Because well, I don't get enough mail. :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 18:51:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14042 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14037 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08958; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:51:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd008891; Fri Feb 5 19:51:39 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28845; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:51:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902060251.TAA28845@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: how process 0 becomes the swapper To: bf20761@binghamton.edu Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:51:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "zhihuizhang" at Feb 4, 99 12:23:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am wondering how the swapper code (I think it should be in swap_pager.c > and vm_swap.c) is associated with the proc0. Proc0 is created by hand in > init_main.c and machdep.c. Everything is setup there, including VM, > signal, stack used for stack switch, etc. But the TSS is not fully setup. > I mean the registers like %eip to indicate the code for process 0. > > I maybe dumb to ask this. But a little hint may help me out. Thanks. In effect, a "kernel process" is like an NFS nfsiod. It's the equivalent of a system call that never returns, instead looping in code in the kernel and only going away when it has to go to sleep for some reason. Because this is the case, it runs on the kernel stack and instruction pointer, and therefore never needs to run on a user stack and instruction pointer. In practice, you should be able to call the exec code (not the system call implementation, since a failure would attempt to return to a non-existant user space) and create a user space process out of nothing. This is basically how the /sbin/init gets started from the kernel. Kernel processes are used for doing things in the kernel that require a process context, such as calling tsleep() in order to wait until a page has been read off of disk. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19949 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vespucci.advicom.net (vespucci.advicom.net [199.170.120.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19940 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@vespucci.advicom.net) Received: from localhost (avalon@localhost) by vespucci.advicom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26877; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:06:27 -0600 (CST) X-Envelope-Recipient: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:06:26 -0600 (CST) From: Avalon Books To: Tony Overfield cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Unable to newfs HD >10G with 3.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990204214937.00879b20@bugs.us.dell.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Overfield wrote: > Well, have you seen a "newer PC" that doesn't implement INT 13 > extensions, or are you confusing what I said with some other problem > that you've seen? I am well aware that the INT 13 spec has been essentially obsolete for a long time. And it appears that we are in agreement regarding its use (or rather, its lack of use considering the newer drive interfacing). > I was assuming the devices are not known to be defective. All bets are > off for any *standardized* behavior of broken devices. Also correct. Rest assued, we give our supplied eight kinds of hell when what they send us isn't up to spec. > Then they must have really bunged it up. I've not seen such a problem > with any of the drive suppliers we use. We stopped seeing most of the screwy drive firmware about six months ago, though we do still see such things very occasionally. > There's no excuse for busted drive firmware, but you can't blame the > "8.4 GB solution" which, as I said, works correctly if implemented > properly. Again, you and I are in agreement. > You implied that there are a bunch of nonstandard solutions to this > problem, but that isn't true. I don't consider a bug in a particular > drive's firmware to constitute a "nonstandard implementation." In my > mind, and probably yours too, it is simply broken and needs to be > replaced. Well, this is best clarified by saying that "non-standard" isn't really a dirty word anymore, espcially when manufactures and programmers are willing to hammer out the details to make it work. But in the beginning, it was a real chore to find combinations of drives and BIOS's that worked properly. Luckily, these problems continue to diminish in magnitude--and this is a good thing (for us hardware types, in particular). --R. Pelletier Sys Admin, House Galiagante We are a Micro$oft-free site To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21446 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21417 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id VAA06075; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:24:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205212427.B6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:24:27 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Terry Lambert , Chuck Youse Cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries References: <199902060104.SAA21930@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902060104.SAA21930@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:04:34AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:04:34AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Oh, just boot this asshole. > > Uh, have you read /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/doc/README? No, does it explain how to boot an asshole? My system will only boot from floppy, SCSI devices, IDE disks, and ATAPI CDROMs. I guess the latter comes close to qualifying as an asshole. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21693 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA24368; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:32:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199902060432.PAA24368@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries In-Reply-To: <19990205212427.B6050@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Feb 5, 1999 9:24:27 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:32:10 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:04:34AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Oh, just boot this asshole. > > > > Uh, have you read /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/doc/README? > > No, does it explain how to boot an asshole? Chuckle. Better be careful doing that in case your foot gets stuck. [ Sorry, just couldn't resist! ] -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:31:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:31:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21977 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id VAA06087; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:29:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205212913.C6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:29:13 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Terry Lambert , Robert Withrow Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... References: <199902051331.IAA23625@spooky.rwwa.com> <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:27:16AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:27:16AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > dcs@newsguy.com said: > > :- Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. > > > > I'm against both! See my earlier remarks about configuration mamagement. > > How do you propose to solve the Solaris binary compatability > problem for commercial Solaris applications that install > components into the rc.d directories in order to get them run > at the correct time and in the correct order for dependent > services requirements? By writing a port that will install the startup script in the right place and modify it as necessary. We really don't have to implement the entire brain-dead mess of the SysV init system just to start a simple (or even not so simple) application. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:33:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:33:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22153 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:33:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id VAA06101; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205213254.D6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:32:54 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Terry Lambert Cc: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <19990204230058.A4902@softweyr.com> <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:21:33AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:21:33AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They > > have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server > > PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this > > kind of support. > > Maybe if FreeBSD had something Linux didn't that Motorola really, > really wanted. > > Like maybe hard RT with first-deadline-first scheduling. Motorola didn't want Linux, Northern Telecom did. The reason it's getting full-time attention is because NT was pretty vocal, and because they had one brilliant engineer who had already done half the work on his own time because that's what he wanted to do. If we'd managed to convince him to port FreeBSD to the PowerPC, NT would have probably ended up with that instead. This case is so close to what happened with Sun last year it almost sickens me. Three guesses who that engineer is. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22377 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA46690; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:37:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990205233625.03d60b40@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 23:36:58 -0500 To: Wes Peters , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: USB drivers Cc: ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990205213254.D6050@softweyr.com> References: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> <19990204230058.A4902@softweyr.com> <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:32 PM 2/5/99 , Wes Peters wrote: >On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 01:21:33AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They >> > have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server >> > PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this >> > kind of support. >> >> Maybe if FreeBSD had something Linux didn't that Motorola really, >> really wanted. >> >> Like maybe hard RT with first-deadline-first scheduling. > >Motorola didn't want Linux, Northern Telecom did. The reason it's >getting full-time attention is because NT was pretty vocal, and >because they had one brilliant engineer who had already done half >the work on his own time because that's what he wanted to do. If >we'd managed to convince him to port FreeBSD to the PowerPC, NT >would have probably ended up with that instead. This case is so >close to what happened with Sun last year it almost sickens me. > >Three guesses who that engineer is. ;^) I'm not going to guess who the engineer is. BUt I'd be interested to know what happened with Sun last year. Maybe I know and I just think I'm living in a hole. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23249 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:51:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23241 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id VAA06144; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205215057.G6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:50:57 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia References: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 05:59:27PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 05:59:27PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Just in case you get offered an iMAC somewhere.. > > NetBSD boots nicely on it. > In fact the imacs have a Net-boot built into the eeprom > so if you hit 'N' when you hear the gong (and hold it) > it'll send out dhcp/bootp requests > and if you supply it with the current NetBSD distribution kernel, > it'll boot nicely running an NFS root. Any progress on booting from the hard drive yet? I might want to carry mine into work every once in a while, or out to the boat. ;^) > That little {strawberry, lime, bannana, blueberry, ???} machine > looks so cool with those Xterm windows :-) >From the web page: The world's best-selling personal computer now comes in blueberry, strawberry, tangerine, grape and lime-and at an even more affordable price. I looked at them at CompUSA the other day; the blueberry is kinda ugly. I think I'll get a grape. > Doug Ambrisko here has been setting it up and 'tis cool! > > Good job by the NetBSD folk!! As usual. Let's hear it for iBSD! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 20:52:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:52:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23309 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id VAA06150; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:52:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205215210.H6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:52:10 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Terry Lambert , Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia References: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <199902060231.TAA27824@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902060231.TAA27824@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 02:31:10AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 02:31:10AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Just in case you get offered an iMAC somewhere.. > > [ ... ] > > > That little {strawberry, lime, bannana, blueberry, ???} machine > > looks so cool with those Xterm windows :-) > > I'm looking forward to installing fvwm95 so that people will > think it's running Windows. 8-) 8-). Ewww -- sick! I think you'd get them to goggle even more if you install Enlightenment and the Star Trek desktop theme. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 21:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:17:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25059 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id AAA46730; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:17:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990206001508.03d49760@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:16:43 -0500 To: Wes Peters , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: <19990205215057.G6050@softweyr.com> References: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:50 PM 2/5/99 , Wes Peters wrote: > >Any progress on booting from the hard drive yet? I might want to >carry mine into work every once in a while, or out to the boat. ;^) > Do we have a URL somewhere on how to do remote boots? This was something I never looked into in my Novell days.. Didn't know *BSD can throw out boot images. >I looked at them at CompUSA the other day; the blueberry is kinda >ugly. I think I'll get a grape. Just don't try to lick it. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 21:24:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:24:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25522 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:24:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA06588 for Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199902060523.VAA06588@pau-amma.whistle.com> Subject: Re: C headers Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902060201.TAA25935@usr02.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Terry Lambert >Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:01:55 +0000 (GMT) >So the fact that you will potentially get undetectable errors if >you compile without a prototype in scope can really be blamed on >lazy compiler writers who didn't want to update their linker >technology at the same time that they were adding assumptions to >their compiler. The presumption (in the above) that the compiler writers were necessarily in a position to exert a useful form of influence over those who implemented linker technology is not always warranted for the universe of systems that was the domain of the ANSI C committee. Indeed: sometimes, they were competitors. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 21:59:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27284 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27278 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:59:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@zaphod.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by zaphod.softweyr.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id WAA06306; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes) Message-ID: <19990205225904.L6050@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:59:04 -0700 From: Wes Peters To: Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia References: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <19990205215057.G6050@softweyr.com> <4.1.19990206001508.03d49760@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990206001508.03d49760@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 12:16:43AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 12:16:43AM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 11:50 PM 2/5/99 , Wes Peters wrote: > > > >Any progress on booting from the hard drive yet? I might want to > >carry mine into work every once in a while, or out to the boat. ;^) > > > > Do we have a URL somewhere on how to do remote boots? This was something I > never looked into in my Novell days.. Didn't know *BSD can throw out boot > images. bootpd, or dhcpd. Along with tftpd (typically) to transfer the images. > >I looked at them at CompUSA the other day; the blueberry is kinda > >ugly. I think I'll get a grape. > > Just don't try to lick it. Do they taste bad? All the hoopla over what an earth-shattering design the iMac is really ticks me off. Apparently these boneheads have never seen a SPARCstation SLC or ELC. Or this the wonder solely reserved for the color? Maybe Sun ougtta revive the ELC, stick a shrunken Ultra-5 mother board in it, and call it the iSPARC. I'd buy one of those for a dollar. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 22:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28468 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28462 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id BAA46796; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:16:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990206011226.03d1a110@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:16:38 -0500 To: Wes Peters , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: <19990205225904.L6050@softweyr.com> References: <4.1.19990206001508.03d49760@genesis.ispace.com> <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <19990205215057.G6050@softweyr.com> <4.1.19990206001508.03d49760@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:59 AM 2/6/99 , Wes Peters wrote: > >bootpd, or dhcpd. Along with tftpd (typically) to transfer the images. > Hm.. I guess I'll do some reading. RPL does it in Novell. Although I never did figure out how to build an image in the first place. 250 user Intranetware license, paid 1000 bucks (normally 13K) from Novell for it, and it sits on a shelf.. > >Do they taste bad? > I'd imagine that plastic tastes very.. hm.. well.. not grape, that's for sure. >All the hoopla over what an earth-shattering design the iMac is >really ticks me off. Apparently these boneheads have never seen >a SPARCstation SLC or ELC. Or this the wonder solely reserved for >the color? Probably the color. "Oh boy, look, it's not gray, beige, or black!". >Maybe Sun ougtta revive the ELC, stick a shrunken Ultra-5 mother >board in it, and call it the iSPARC. I'd buy one of those for a >dollar. ;^) Ahaha.. I'd like to have a sparc period. I have a Solaris 2.6 media box here with nowhere to install. But while Minicomputer Exchange's prices look nice, they're not nice enough. Because about all I can afford is something close to 'free'.. :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 22:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:20:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA28870 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199902060623.BAA27659@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id BAA21751; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:20:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:20:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Wes Peters cc: Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: <19990205225904.L6050@softweyr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > All the hoopla over what an earth-shattering design the iMac is > really ticks me off. Apparently these boneheads have never seen > a SPARCstation SLC or ELC. Or this the wonder solely reserved for > the color? I do. Boy did they suck. At least ELC's had an external SCSI connector, SLC's were strictly diskless. I think the iMac would suffer the same fate if the masses weren't so stupid. Why would you buy a machine that you -cannot- add drivespace to? > > Maybe Sun ougtta revive the ELC, stick a shrunken Ultra-5 mother > board in it, and call it the iSPARC. I'd buy one of those for a > dollar. ;^) I'd give 'em 5 for it. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 23:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03342 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:04:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA03052; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:03:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Jamie Bowden cc: Wes Peters , Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: <199902060623.BAA27659@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > I do. Boy did they suck. At least ELC's had an external SCSI > connector, SLC's were strictly diskless. I think the iMac would > suffer the same fate if the masses weren't so stupid. Why would you > buy a machine that you -cannot- add drivespace to? I'd lug my SLC upstairs and flat-bed scan it for you but that would require effort. Nonetheless, the SLC does have a SCSI port. And, no, in their time, they were quite nice. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 5 23:12:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03945 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:12:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA03939 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 1091uk-0004rs-00; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:12:26 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA88283; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:12:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902060712.AAA88283@harmony.village.org> To: John Polstra Subject: Re: ldconfig and libraries Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:27:57 PST." <199902041927.LAA19876@vashon.polstra.com> References: <199902041927.LAA19876@vashon.polstra.com> <199901311851.KAA07228@vashon.polstra.com> <199902040322.TAA18413@vashon.polstra.com> <36B99FD3.41C67EA6@ics.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:12:54 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199902041927.LAA19876@vashon.polstra.com> John Polstra writes: : executables. The RPATH string is in the .dynstr section, which : precedes text, data, and bss in the address space. If you made the Is it required to come before text, data and bss? Or is that just convention that needn't be true. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 00:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:29:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10335 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m10937C-000HytC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:29:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) Subject: Re: 3.0-stable query In-Reply-To: <199902052307.PAA15039@mango.parc.xerox.com> from Bill Fenner at "Feb 5, 1999 3: 7:59 pm" To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:29:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: root@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message you write: > >I notice that config does not recognize the > >'pseudo-device bpfilter 4' specification, > > What do you mean by "does not recognize"? Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' Warning: pseudo-device "bpfilter" is unknown Kernel build directory is ../../compile/DARKSTAR ( RELENG_3 cvsup'd around 1300 hours EST Friday Feb 5) > >and apparently bpfiltering is included automatically. > > Nope. You are correct - I tried a tcpdump. However the following appear in dmesg output that used to be specific to bpfilter definition. bpf: lp0 attached bpf: ep0 attached bpf: tun0 attached bpf: tun1 attached bpf: sl0 attached bpf: ppp0 attached bpf: lo0 attached > % sed -e '/bpfilter/s/^/#/' < FENESTRO > FENESTRO2 > % config FENESTRO > Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' > Kernel build directory is ../../compile/FENESTRO > % config FENESTRO2 > Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' > Kernel build directory is ../../compile/FENESTRO2 > % cd ../../compile/FENESTRO > % grep -i bpf * > Makefile: bpf.o bpf_filter.o if.o if_ethersubr.o if_loop.o if_media.o \ > Makefile: $S/net/bpf.c $S/net/bpf_filter.c $S/net/if.c \ > Makefile:bpf.o: $S/net/bpf.c > Makefile:bpf_filter.o: $S/net/bpf_filter.c > bpfilter.h:#define NBPFILTER 16 > config.c:___# The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be\n\ > config.c:___# simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable.\n\ > config.c:___pseudo-device bpfilter 16 #Berkeley packet filter\n\ > % cd ../../compile/FENESTRO2 > % grep -i bpf * > bpfilter.h:#define NBPFILTER 0 > config.c:___## The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be\n\ > config.c:___# simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable.\n\ > config.c:___#pseudo-device bpfilter 16 #Berkeley packet filter\n\ > > This is a 3.0 sup'd around noon PST on February 5, 1998. > > Bill > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 01:12:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13935 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat0716.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.190.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13927 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04521; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:11:26 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:11:26 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: Jamie Bowden , Wes Peters , Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > I do. Boy did they suck. At least ELC's had an external SCSI > > connector, SLC's were strictly diskless. I think the iMac would > > suffer the same fate if the masses weren't so stupid. Why would you > > buy a machine that you -cannot- add drivespace to? > > I'd lug my SLC upstairs and flat-bed scan it for you but that would > require effort. > > Nonetheless, the SLC does have a SCSI port. > > And, no, in their time, they were quite nice. Actually, until recently (ie. last 6 months or so), we were still using it as a mini-networking monitoring station...hell, I knew someone in Toronto that the last time I visited, he was using a 286 and KA9Q as a network router and was quite happy with it... Just cause it isn't a PII, doesn't meant its useless... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 01:24:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14895 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:23:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15064; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:27:26 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902052004.HAA22959@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:23:05 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Memory leak in pthread? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Feb-99 John Birrell wrote: > Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: >> This programm very quickly eats all the virtual memory. In "freebsd-hackers >> archive" I found some words about thread management by hand. More >> complicated >> program, where stacks are allocated/deallocated by malloc()/free() for each >> thread, eats memory not so quickly, but still eats, e.g. resident size (for >> each > > You need to detach the threads. > I add pthread_detach() after pthread_join(). Nothing was happened. Process size grows constantly. May be I should use completely detached threads, I mean I should never use pthread_join()? Sergey. --- ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 01:27:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15326 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15316 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:27:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ks@itp.ac.ru) Received: from speecart.chg.ru (speecart.chg.ru [193.233.46.2]) by itp.ac.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15077 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:31:54 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:27:32 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics From: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pthreads and select again Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems that multiple select()-s and sleep() or pthread_cond_timedwait() hang when are used in the same time (of cause, in different threads). Sergey. --- ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 01:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17937 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id SAA11213; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:54:59 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36BC0F70.788A4029@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:46:24 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Curt Sampson CC: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: O.S. Resource Center References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Curt Sampson wrote: > > > "The Operating System Resource Center" > > http://www.skylab.org/~sabre/os/index.html > > That should be renamed the `OSes that Use i386 Hardware Resource > Centre.' There's nothing on OpenProm, for example, despite the fact > that it's used on many machines with many operating systems. And > let's not get into the lack of information on memory management > for any CPU but the i386 series.... It also lacks any information on... UFS/FFS! Nothing on stackable filesystems, I didn't see anything on efforts like flux & microkernels (though I may not have looked in the right places for this)... But I suppose they are just starting, and this is due to ignorance, not prejudice. They do ask for useful links. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 02:20:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20266 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id TAA13303; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:19:48 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36BC15FA.CE8B64C1@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 19:14:18 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hibma@skylink.it CC: Doug Rabson , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > What's wrong with iMac's? No FreeBSD? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 02:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21095 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21088 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18306; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902061032.CAA18306@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" cc: hibma@skylink.it, Doug Rabson , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Feb 1999 19:14:18 +0900." <36BC15FA.CE8B64C1@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 02:32:44 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > > > What's wrong with iMac's? > > No FreeBSD? Oops, I just saw an IMac running NetBSD... Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 03:30:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26436 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26424 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA19931; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:29:56 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36BC2754.B6BFDF4B@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 20:28:20 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: hibma@skylink.it, Doug Rabson , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <199902061032.CAA18306@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > > > > > What's wrong with iMac's? > > > > No FreeBSD? > > Oops, I just saw an IMac running NetBSD... NetBSD ain't no FreeBSD. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 03:37:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26756 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:37:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26749 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:37:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18565; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 03:34:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902061134.DAA18565@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" cc: hibma@skylink.it, Doug Rabson , Terry Lambert , Wes Peters , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: USB drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Feb 1999 20:28:20 +0900." <36BC2754.B6BFDF4B@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 03:34:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was just happy to see a BSD system running on an IMac. Cheers, Amancio > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > > Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone considered building a PC whose only means of talking to > > > > > > the world is a USB port? > > > > > > > > > > SGI just started selling them. > > > > > > > > What's wrong with iMac's? > > > > > > No FreeBSD? > > > > Oops, I just saw an IMac running NetBSD... > > NetBSD ain't no FreeBSD. :-) > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > dcs@freebsd.org > > Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 05:33:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10382 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:33:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA58078; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:33:56 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Many packages unable to load. Message-ID: <19990206053356.A58041@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <36BB69D6.62319AC4@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <36BB69D6.62319AC4@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 01:59:50PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is anyone lookign at these issues? > what SHOULD I have done? cd /var/db/pkg ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.3 ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.2 -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 05:38:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10910 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:38:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA06839; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: obrien@NUXI.com cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Many packages unable to load. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Feb 1999 05:33:56 PST." <19990206053356.A58041@relay.nuxi.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 05:38:07 -0800 Message-ID: <6836.918308287@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've also updated the XFree86 3.3.3.1 distribution that the release/snapshots on ftp.freebsd.org use to contain an updated pkgreg.tar.gz file. Sysinstall, as usual, will unpack it correctly if you install X with the system. - Jordan > > Is anyone lookign at these issues? > > what SHOULD I have done? > > cd /var/db/pkg > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.3 > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.2 > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 07:06:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17415 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:06:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17409 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29774; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:09:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199902061509.KAA29774@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow), dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:27:16 GMT." <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:09:20 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG tlambert@primenet.com said: :- How do you propose to solve the Solaris binary compatability problem :- for commercial Solaris applications that install components into the :- rc.d directories The same way all of these kinds of problems are solved. By having a port for the app that fixes the install.. :- in order to get them run at the correct time and in :- the correct order for dependent services requirements? Well, that's the problem, isn't it? How can they ever be sure that they are running things in the "correct order" unless they have global knowlege of every possible application that requires startup services, which they can never have. This is the fundamentally broken part of the SYSV startup services design. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 07:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21888 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21883 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:59:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id KAA70264 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:59:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990206105723.03915e00@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:58:56 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Make world woes.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looks like a fluky situation. Done cvsup like 4 or 5 times across the week, new updates and all. But I'm starting to think I'm lacking some ELF-items, so I did a make aout-to-elf-build, to later install. However if I make, make buildworld, make aout-to-elf-build, I get to the same place in the SVR4 stuff.. If I cut and paste those compiler lines, it builds fine. Anyone have any idea bout this? --- cc -c -x assembler-with-cpp -DLOCORE -DKERNEL -nostdinc -O -pipe -DKERNEL -DCOMPAT_SVR4 -DKERNEL -Wall -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wcast-qual -fformat-extensions -ansi -DKLD_MODULE -nostdinc -I- -I/usr/obj/aout/usr/src/sys/modules/svr4 -I/usr/obj/aout/usr/src/sys/modules/svr4/@ -I/usr/obj/aout/usr/src/tmp/usr/include /usr/src/sys/modules/svr4/../../i386/svr4/svr4_locore.s -o svr4_locore.o /usr/src/sys/modules/svr4/../../i386/svr4/svr4_locore.s: Assembler messages: /usr/src/sys/modules/svr4/../../i386/svr4/svr4_locore.s:46: Error: Can't emit reloc {- unknown-seg symbol "svr4_sigcode"} @ file address 48. /usr/src/sys/modules/svr4/../../i386/svr4/svr4_locore.s:46: Fatal error:1 error, 0 warnings, no object file generated. *** Error code 1 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 2 errors *** Error code 2 1 error --- Thanks, --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 08:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26004 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25999 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.102.232]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <52055(5)>; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:36:47 PST Received: from mango.parc.xerox.com (localhost.parc.xerox.com [127.0.0.1]) by mango.parc.xerox.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06012; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:36:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@mango.parc.xerox.com) Message-Id: <199902061636.IAA06012@mango.parc.xerox.com> To: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-stable query In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:29:22 PST." Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:36:40 PST From: Bill Fenner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message you write: >Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' >Warning: pseudo-device "bpfilter" is unknown >Kernel build directory is ../../compile/DARKSTAR > >( RELENG_3 cvsup'd around 1300 hours EST Friday Feb 5) Odd. Have you got "bpfilter" in your config file twice? config should probably give a better error for this case. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 09:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29969 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:21:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29964 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m109BPz-000HytC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:21:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) Subject: Re: 3.0-stable query In-Reply-To: <199902061636.IAA06012@mango.parc.xerox.com> from Bill Fenner at "Feb 6, 1999 8:36:40 am" To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:21:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: root@tomqnx.com, fenner@parc.xerox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message you write: > >Don't forget to do a ``make depend'' > >Warning: pseudo-device "bpfilter" is unknown > >Kernel build directory is ../../compile/DARKSTAR > > > >( RELENG_3 cvsup'd around 1300 hours EST Friday Feb 5) > > Odd. Have you got "bpfilter" in your config file twice? > config should probably give a better error for this case. > BLUSH!! Yes I do. I apologise for the false alarm. You are right - the error could be improved. tcpdump works like a charm... Regards, Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 09:34:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01445 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21334; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:32:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA16690; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:32:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:32:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199902061732.KAA16690@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow), dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... In-Reply-To: <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com> References: <199902051331.IAA23625@spooky.rwwa.com> <199902060127.SAA23350@usr02.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > :- Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. > > > > I'm against both! See my earlier remarks about configuration mamagement. > > How do you propose to solve the Solaris binary compatability > problem for commercial Solaris applications that install > components into the rc.d directories in order to get them run > at the correct time and in the correct order for dependent > services requirements? You know, I hear this alot. But as a Solaris administrator, I've yet to hear or install *ANY* 3rd party software that installs files in /etc/init.d that doesn't require hand-tweaking. And, if they require hand-tweaking, with a bit of work, it can be converted to FreeBSD's rc.d stuff (assuming the rc.shutdown stuff actually works now.) Very few if *any* Solaris binaries actually rely on run-levels. At least that's been my experience. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 10:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:33:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08089 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27723; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:33:28 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia Message-ID: <19990206103327.B27505@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <36BBA1FF.284797A9@whistle.com> <199902060231.TAA27824@usr02.primenet.com> <19990205215210.H6050@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990205215210.H6050@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 09:52:10PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 09:52:10PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > On Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 02:31:10AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > That little {strawberry, lime, bannana, blueberry, ???} machine > > > looks so cool with those Xterm windows :-) > > > > I'm looking forward to installing fvwm95 so that people will > > think it's running Windows. 8-) 8-). > > Ewww -- sick! > > I think you'd get them to goggle even more if you install > Enlightenment and the Star Trek desktop theme. ;^) And they'd goggle even _more_ if E could then actually _do_ something. :) Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Very funny, Scotty. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Now beam down my clothes." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 11:05:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11931 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11926 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21982 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:45:50 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id RAA01186; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:47:23 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199902061647.RAA01186@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at "Feb 6, 99 02:03:07 am" To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:47:23 +0100 (CET) Cc: jamie@itribe.net, wes@softweyr.com, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew N. Dodd wrote... > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > I do. Boy did they suck. At least ELC's had an external SCSI > > connector, SLC's were strictly diskless. I think the iMac would > > suffer the same fate if the masses weren't so stupid. Why would you > > buy a machine that you -cannot- add drivespace to? > > I'd lug my SLC upstairs and flat-bed scan it for you but that would > require effort. > > Nonetheless, the SLC does have a SCSI port. Check www.sunhelp.com they probably have a description of the SLC in the Sun Hardware FAQ. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 11:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:41:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14742 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17683; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdh17681; Sat Feb 6 19:31:23 1999 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: "David O'Brien" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Many packages unable to load. In-Reply-To: <19990206053356.A58041@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yeah but loading X11 from the distribution doesn't MAKE /var/db/pkg/XFree86-3.3.3.1 (or whatever) On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > Is anyone lookign at these issues? > > what SHOULD I have done? > > cd /var/db/pkg > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.3 > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.2 > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 11:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:41:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14851 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17692; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdP17688; Sat Feb 6 19:32:36 1999 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: obrien@NUXI.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Many packages unable to load. In-Reply-To: <6836.918308287@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok great.. I guess the fact that it wasn't there before is the problem I was having.. thanks. On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I've also updated the XFree86 3.3.3.1 distribution that the > release/snapshots on ftp.freebsd.org use to contain an updated > pkgreg.tar.gz file. Sysinstall, as usual, will unpack it correctly if > you install X with the system. > > - Jordan > > > > > Is anyone lookign at these issues? > > > what SHOULD I have done? > > > > cd /var/db/pkg > > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.3 > > ln -s XFree86-3.3.3.1 XFree86-3.3.2 > > > > -- > > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 12:27:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19666 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay02.indigo.ie (relay02.indigo.ie [194.125.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19657 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from niall@pobox.com) Message-Id: <199902062027.MAA19657@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 2575 messnum 46180 invoked from network[194.125.205.230/ts08-100.dublin.indigo.ie]); 6 Feb 1999 20:27:24 -0000 Received: from ts08-100.dublin.indigo.ie (HELO default) (194.125.205.230) by relay02.indigo.ie (qp 2575) with SMTP; 6 Feb 1999 20:27:24 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Niall Smart" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Curt Sampson" Cc: , Subject: Re: O.S. Resource Center Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:29:21 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > "The Operating System Resource Center" > > > http://www.skylab.org/~sabre/os/index.html > > > > That should be renamed the `OSes that Use i386 Hardware Resource > > Centre.' There's nothing on OpenProm, for example, despite the fact > > that it's used on many machines with many operating systems. And > > let's not get into the lack of information on memory management > > for any CPU but the i386 series.... > > Or "The Linux Resource Center", since there's nothing on non-Linux > FS's in the FS section. ;-). Whiners, submit some URLs to him then. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 13:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26990 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:53:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24915; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:53:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd024901; Sat Feb 6 14:53:48 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20073; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:53:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902062153.OAA20073@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:53:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, witr@rwwa.com, dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902061509.KAA29774@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Feb 6, 99 10:09:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :- in order to get them run at the correct time and in > :- the correct order for dependent services requirements? > > Well, that's the problem, isn't it? How can they ever be sure > that they are running things in the "correct order" unless they > have global knowlege of every possible application that requires > startup services, which they can never have. This is the fundamentally > broken part of the SYSV startup services design. No. The SysV design is equivalent using sync writes to keep your FFS integrity intact. The issue is order of operation. The SysV design is one, not very elegant, soloution to ordering, just as FFS sync writes are one, not very elegant soloution. Yeah, soft updates are very nice in FFS. And someone should solve the ordering problem for rc files graphically, as well, so that there's a nice elegant soloution to the problem. But in the absence of an elegant soloution, anything that works is, by definition, better than anything that doesn't. Right now we have this monolithic rc file that has to be sed'ed during installs, resulting in potentially conflicting or out of order and therefore unstable startup scripts. Basically, BSD has it's rc files mounted async. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 14:29:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:29:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00534 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:29:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29938; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:29:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd029902; Sat Feb 6 15:29:06 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21963; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:29:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902062229.PAA21963@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more modular rc/init/uninit system... To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:29:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, witr@rwwa.com, dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990205212913.C6050@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Feb 5, 99 09:29:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > :- Yep. I'm not against run states, just against run levels. > > > > > > I'm against both! See my earlier remarks about configuration mamagement. > > > > How do you propose to solve the Solaris binary compatability > > problem for commercial Solaris applications that install > > components into the rc.d directories in order to get them run > > at the correct time and in the correct order for dependent > > services requirements? > > By writing a port that will install the startup script in the > right place and modify it as necessary. We really don't have > to implement the entire brain-dead mess of the SysV init system > just to start a simple (or even not so simple) application. You're in Utah. I bet Bob would let you borrow his IBCS2 Sybase for the AT&T StartServer so you could install it on FreeBSD and make a "port". Of course, when I did it, it was absolute hell to get this working on that FreeBSD box for Dawn for the copy of the Hunam Genome database, but maybe youwill have better luck. While you are at it, you might consider the IBCS2 copies of Lotus 1-2-3 that I got working, with SEF's help on the math coprocessor probe using the sysi86()(sp?) call to call the "BIOS". The problem is that having an execution class (ABI type) loader is ony a tiny part of the battle in actually emulating foriegn environments for binaries. For the two examples above, you would effectively need to implement the entirety of IBCS2, including the packaging system (well, except SCO is now giving that away). The Lotus 1-2-3 especially will be a pain, in that it uses the uname return as part of the copy protection, after assembling a pare of simple cyphered halves of a binary file around its idea of the uname return during the install to make the install specific to the machine. For Solaris, the number of issues are doubled or tripled. This is not to discourage ABI compatability with Solaris; I think that, going forward, it's not optional. But at the same time, you can't solve a vast problem in a half-vast way. You either do it right, or you don't bother doing it at all. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 14:57:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:57:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02910 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07742; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd007716; Sat Feb 6 15:56:52 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23260; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:56:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902062256.PAA23260@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD trivia To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:56:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990205215210.H6050@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Feb 5, 99 09:52:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm looking forward to installing fvwm95 so that people will > > think it's running Windows. 8-) 8-). > > Ewww -- sick! > > I think you'd get them to goggle even more if you install > Enlightenment and the Star Trek desktop theme. ;^) I can hear it now... "How the hell am I supposed to support someone over the phone when they have all of this non-standard glitzy crap installed?". I think it's probably bad enough when someone calls up their Windows 95 support weenie, and the weenie needs them to delete something. Why Desktop Themes Are A Bad Idea, by Terry Lambert ... luser: Ok, I found the file. weenie: Ok, drag it to the trashcan. luser: I don't have a trashcan. weenie: Then drag it to the black hole. luser: I don't have a black hole. weenie: Do you have a recycling icon? luser: No... weenie: A beaker of acid? luser: No... weenie: Beavis, do you have a picture of Beavis? luser: No... weenie: Uh, crap... luser: ... weenie: Uh... luser: ... weenie: Uh... luser: Are you immitating Beavis? weenie: No, just thinking. luser: Because you sounded like Beavis. weenie: Well, I wasn't imitating Beavis. luser: ... weenie: Uh... luser: Are you done thinking yet, "Beavis"? weenie: Cut the crap or I'll send you back to the support queue, where your call is very important to us, and you can explain the problem to someone else. luser: Sorry; it's just that I'm paying $4.95 a minute. That's like $2.50 an "Uh". weenie: Then the quicker you quit chatting, the quicker I solve the problem, capish? luser: Sorry. weenie: Uh... luser: ... weenie: Ok, got it. Can you get a DOS prompt? luser: Yeah. weenie: Ok, get a DOS prompt... luser: I've already double-clicked on Sebastion the Crab; it's on it's way up. I can tell, because of the bubbles rising from the end of the seashell I clicket it with. weenie: Whatever; just get a DOS prompt. luser: Ok, it's up. weenie: Ok; now type "CD \WINDOWS\SYSTEM"... ... The "Desktop Theme" has got to be the stupidest idea since sending French bicycle assembly instructions to Korea to be translated into English by immigrants from China because they're willing to charge less to do the work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 16:04:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09538; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA20444; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:34:26 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.2/8.9.0) id KAA83078; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:34:24 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:34:23 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Raymond Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: process state Message-ID: <19990207103423.P79703@freebie.lemis.com> References: <36BC71EF.78EEE8D2@interchange.ubc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36BC71EF.78EEE8D2@interchange.ubc.ca>; from Raymond on Sat, Feb 06, 1999 at 08:46:40AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [moved from -questions to -hackers] On Saturday, 6 February 1999 at 8:46:40 -0800, Raymond wrote: > > I am just wondering if there is info about the process state. I am > doing a school project which my focus is on how FreeBSD is dealing with > the process scheduling and context switching as well as the priority > schema. I was trying to use the search engine on the net in the > official site, but I could only find very limited information. Could you > direct me how I could obtain relavant information? This is probably more relevant to -hackers (in-depth technical discussion). I don't think we have anything specific for FreeBSD, apart from the code. You're probably best off looking at ``The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System''. I don't think scheduling has changed much since 4.4BSD; it's a pretty stable part of the kernel. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 16:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09804 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sturm.canonware.com (canonware.com [204.107.140.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09753 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by sturm.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12213; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:55:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans To: "Sergey S. Kosyakov" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthreads and select again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Sergey S. Kosyakov wrote: > It seems that multiple select()-s and sleep() or > pthread_cond_timedwait() hang when are used in the same time (of > cause, in different threads). See: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=8872 There is a bug in the pthread kernel's handling of pthread_cond_timedwait() that can cause bad things to happen. The PR includes a patch that I have been using for way too long now. This may not be what is causing your problem, but it's a good thing to check out. Jason Jason Evans http://www.canonware.com/~jasone Home phone: (650) 856-8204 Work phone: (415) 808-8742 "I once knew a happy medium. Her name was Zohar." - James Foster To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 16:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-29.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10543 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA10078; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:52 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Terry Lambert cc: Wes Peters , julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia In-Reply-To: <199902062256.PAA23260@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > Why Desktop Themes Are A Bad Idea, by Terry Lambert [..] > The "Desktop Theme" has got to be the stupidest idea since sending > French bicycle assembly instructions to Korea to be translated into > English by immigrants from China because they're willing to charge > less to do the work. Well unless they rename it, the Recycle Bin will always be called the Recycle Bin.. so have the luser look for _that_ not some icon. Or tell them to uninstall the theme for the time being. Neither of which are all _that_ hard. Besides, if the user is too stupid to know which icon is the recycle bin, I'm sure that the "guru" should tell them not to touch the themes control panel (or just remove it which isn't too hard). - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 22:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11613 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:14:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17893; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:14:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36BD2F46.FBA49C6D@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 23:14:30 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" CC: Jamie Bowden , Drew Baxter , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD trivia References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > I do. Boy did they suck. At least ELC's had an external SCSI > > connector, SLC's were strictly diskless. I think the iMac would > > suffer the same fate if the masses weren't so stupid. Why would you > > buy a machine that you -cannot- add drivespace to? > > I'd lug my SLC upstairs and flat-bed scan it for you but that would > require effort. > > Nonetheless, the SLC does have a SCSI port. > > And, no, in their time, they were quite nice. Dayna Communications used one, connected to a 730 MB SCSI drive and a QIC-150 tape drive in an external shoebox, for their FTP server for years, until they were assimilated into Intel in early 1998. That was a great little machine. It was given to one of the test engineers; he has it at home running NetBSD now. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 6 23:20:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:20:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16895 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:20:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18006; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36BD3E9D.B4E805EB@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 00:19:57 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, ckempf@enigami.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB drivers References: <199902060121.SAA22918@usr02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Wanna bet? Motorola had/has it running on their StarMax series. They > > have a full-time engineer support Linux on their embedded and server > > PowerPC CPU boards now, too. Too bad we don't engender this > > kind of support. > > Maybe if FreeBSD had something Linux didn't that Motorola really, > really wanted. > > Like maybe hard RT with first-deadline-first scheduling. Rate Monotonic Scheduling, with guaranteed timeslices and predictable interrupt responses? Actually, RTMX offers these IIRC. http://www.rtmx.com/ -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message