From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 8 13:17:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r30.bfm.org [208.18.213.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E1614E98 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA00371; Sat, 8 May 1999 15:17:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 15:17:01 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: dima@tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wc* routines Message-ID: <19990508151701.A359@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990507201101.A216@whizkidtech.net> <199905080401.AAA01012@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905080401.AAA01012@lakes.dignus.com>; from Thomas David Rivers on Sat, May 08, 1999 at 12:01:55AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 08, 1999 at 12:01:55AM -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > As far as "finding the file" - I suggest you look at how the locale > library does this (in fact, I suggest you simply "steal" much of this > from there) - basically, define a location in /usr/include/paths.h. > Look there for the file... if it's not there - well, you didn't > find it. Ah, guess what. I have just reread the specs, and realized that all isw* and tow* routines are supposed to be locale dependent. Arghhhhhh. That does not make much sense to me, but that's the spec. So, all I have to do is things like iswXXXX(c) { return isXXXX(c); } for all of them. This is weird because it simply duplicates existing functions. Of course it makes my current job much simpler... Once I am done with that, I will continue my work on locale indenpendent functions, except, obviously, not as part of the C library. Unless we can convince the Posix people to make those part of the standard too... After all, they will be available under BSD licence for anyone to port anywhere. Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 8 23:55:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from portal.east.saic.com (portal.east.saic.com [198.151.13.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 132C615365 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 23:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from NEAL.L.CARLSON@cpmx.saic.com) Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com by portal.east.saic.com via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 9 May 1999 06:55:31 UT Received: from MCL-ITS-EXIG01.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com with ESMTP; Sun, 9 May 1999 02:55:20 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Sun, 9 May 1999 02:55:33 -0400 Message-Id: From: "Carlson, Neal L." To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 02:50:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 1:25: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FF314DBA for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 01:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA05764; Sun, 9 May 1999 01:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 01:24:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Gary Jennejohn Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advice on terrible hacky PCI driver. In-Reply-To: <199905080930.LAA32929@peedub.muc.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 8 May 1999, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > Julian Elischer writes: > > > > > >I have a driver for a device that exists onthe PCI bus.. > >unfortunatly (don't ask) it has a separate interrupt as well that runs > >directly to int6 of the 8259. (not via the PCI bus and not configured in > >by the bios etc.) > > > >I've tried the following terrible hack in the driver, but it didn't seem > >to work. any thoughts? > > > > > > > >static void > >pwrfailPCIattach( pcici_t config_id, int unit) > >{ > > sc_p scp; > > scp = sca[unit]; > > > > config_id->intline = 6; /* pretend the chip said irq 6 */ > > config_id->intpin = 4; /* pretend it's pin D */ > > /* > > * Allocate our (hardwired) interrupt. > > */ > > if (!pci_map_int(config_id, pwrfailintr, scp, &bio_imask)) { > > printf("pwrfail%d: couldn't map interrupt\n", unit); > > } else { > > printf("pwrfail%d: interrupt %d mapped\n", > > unit, config_id->intline); > > } > >} > > > > > >It get's the success message, but the interrupt is never delivered to the > >routine pwrfailintr(). > > > > it seems like this should work, but the new-bus code is such a maze of > twisty little passages, all alike, that I can't wrap my head around it. This is in 3.1 julian > > --- > Gary Jennejohn > Home - garyj@muc.de > Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 1:30: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE8A15043 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 01:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA05800; Sun, 9 May 1999 01:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 01:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Bob Bishop Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: visiting Palo Alto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you can leave friday, then thursday is the freebsd user's group meeting. julian On Sat, 8 May 1999, Bob Bishop wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to be in Palo Alto from tonight through Thursday. If there's any > opportunities within those space-time coordinates for FreeBSD-related chat > over a beer or similar I wouldn't mind hearing about it. > > > -- > Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 > rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 7:14:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE7F154F0 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 07:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dick@ns.tar.com) Received: (from dick@localhost) by ns.tar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18964; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:14:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dick) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 09:14:15 -0500 From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: kip@lyris.com Cc: hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: problems with recursion in libc_r Message-ID: <19990509091415.E6953@tar.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from kip@lyris.com on Fri, May 07, 1999 at 07:50:33PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 07:50:33PM -0700, kip@lyris.com wrote: > I am running FreeBSD 3.1 STABLE. There appears to be a problem with > wrterror and wrtwarning from malloc/free when using threads because it > calls _thread_fd_lock_ which in turn calls malloc etc. > I have made a stopgap fix to the two functions, by having them return > before calling write. I hope that someone else will have a more > intelligent fix. A bit of hackery that might help would be to call _thread_fd_table_init() for fd's 0 to 2 when libc_r starts up (ie. in _thread_init()) There is also a deeper issue, which is that libc (and libc_r) need multpile versions of some syscalls, such as write(). There needs to be the "pure syscall", which is libc is _write(), and in libc_r is _thread_sys_write(). (Ultimately it would be nice if both libc and libc_r used the same naming convention). Then there needs to be something like _libc_write(), which is the version of write used internally to libc (and libc_r). Then finally there needs to be the version exported to user apps, write(). Maybe there even needs to be more layers. GNU glibc has at least 4 layers, I think. The reason for the multiple layers is that more complex apps, like threads libraries, end up needing to "wrap" the pure syscall to implement things like fd locking (libc_r), or pthread_cancellation points (libc and libc_r). It is not always correct to use the final wrapped versions of the syscalls within libc or within threads libraries themselves. Then, an internal libc function like malloc would call the appropriate version of write() that didn't have the potential to recurse. > > A partial trace follows: > #0 malloc (size=76) at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1066 > #1 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > #2 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > #3 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > #4 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399c81 "recursive call.\n") at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > #5 0x8310050 in malloc (size=76) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1069 > #6 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > #7 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > #8 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > #9 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399b95 "junk pointer, too high to make > sense.\n") at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > #10 0x830ffb9 in ifree (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1043 > #11 0x8310151 in free (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1097 > #12 0x82e2df1 in __builtin_vec_delete (ptr=0x863c0a0) > > > -Kip > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Richard Seaman, Jr. email: dick@tar.com 5182 N. Maple Lane phone: 414-367-5450 Chenequa WI 53058 fax: 414-367-5852 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 8:43:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gccomm.net (unix1.gccomm.net [207.8.140.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696DC154A7 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from admin@gccomm.net) Received: from Rooke (client-151-204-202-227.bellatlantic.net [151.204.202.227]) by gccomm.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA30310 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101be9a32$c0a602a0$220fdfce@Gccomm.Net> From: "Jeff Ehrenkrantz" To: "hackers" Subject: perl-5.00502 is marked as broken: perl is in system. Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:43:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I messed up again ..... so i wanted to rebuild perl5 but "perl-5.00502 is marked as broken: perl is in system." is the response from a make in the perl5 ports dir. can anyone tell be just what this means and how to get around it? thanks ..je To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 11:28:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF4015478 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:28:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id OAA94864 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: modex support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had mentioned earlier this week that I was working on adding support for a few more "tweaked" VGA modes (320x240 was already in there), namely 320x400, 320x480, 360x200, 360x240, 360x400, and 360x480. Well, the good news is that it was *really* easy to simply include the code in vga_isa.c and all was dandy. However, I'de like to see this actually have a chance is h*ll of getting into FreeBSD so I figured that since it is fairly useless to most people (I've got some plans for it) that the best thing to do would be to make a KLD (like vesa.ko). That was coming along alright...that is until I realized that by not including the code in vga_isa.c, I no longer had access to the BIOS mode table (mode_map[] in vga_isa.c). Actually, I'de even be content to get at the get_mode_param() function which is also in vga_isa.c (both of which are currently static by the way). Would anyone have any objections to my extern'ing the get_mode_param() function? And if not, which header file should I put the function declaration in (if any)? Thanks (By the way, I'm having trouble understanding exactly how mmap works with the vga driver, if anyone could help shed some light on it I would greatly appriciate it, Soren? Kazutaka? Thanks!) ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 11:37: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DF514C22 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22196 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 14:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905091836.OAA22196@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SMP Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 14:36:55 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just picked myself up a SMP MB and 2 P-II-400s. I just want to tell you "way to go!". There is one bit of wierdness though. I run setiathome for FreeBSD, and I usually run it with 'setiathome >logfile&', then I tail -f that logfile. For some reason the 'tail -f' is not working; the logfile is getting written to, if I access it in a different terminal (cat, a new tail, whatever) I see the additiional information. Any ideas? I am running with softupdates. I can provide a dmesg and config file if it is usefull, I am also running a debugging kernel with DDB so I can try anything you need :) -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 11:41:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54A114C22 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA62003; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905091841.LAA62003@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP References: <199905091836.OAA22196@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I just picked myself up a SMP MB and 2 P-II-400s. I just want to tell you :"way to go!". : :There is one bit of wierdness though. I run setiathome for FreeBSD, and I :usually run it with 'setiathome >logfile&', then I tail -f that logfile. :For some reason the 'tail -f' is not working; the logfile is getting written :to, if I access it in a different terminal (cat, a new tail, whatever) I see :the additiional information. Any ideas? : :I am running with softupdates. I can provide a dmesg and config file if :it is usefull, I am also running a debugging kernel with DDB so I can :try anything you need :) : :-- :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu :Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Are you sure you aren't restarting setiathome? tail -f tracks the seek position of the file. If you restart setiathome without restarting the tail, the logfile will truncate to seek position 0 but the tail will still be hanging onto whatever seek position it had gotten to before. p.s. I'm running setiathome on both of my SMP boxes too. I think it's a much better use of idle cpu then trying to break encryption keys. I'm not redirecting it to a log file, though. -Matt Matthew Dillon :Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 :Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 :I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 12:14:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCA914FD9 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22454; Sun, 9 May 1999 15:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905091914.PAA22454@cs.rpi.edu> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: SMP In-Reply-To: Message from Matthew Dillon of "Sun, 09 May 1999 11:41:18 PDT." <199905091841.LAA62003@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:14:36 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :I just picked myself up a SMP MB and 2 P-II-400s. I just want to tell you > :"way to go!". > : > :There is one bit of wierdness though. I run setiathome for FreeBSD, and I > :usually run it with 'setiathome >logfile&', then I tail -f that logfile. > :For some reason the 'tail -f' is not working; the logfile is getting written > :to, if I access it in a different terminal (cat, a new tail, whatever) I see > :the additiional information. Any ideas? > : > :I am running with softupdates. I can provide a dmesg and config file if > :it is usefull, I am also running a debugging kernel with DDB so I can > :try anything you need :) > : > :-- > :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > :Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd > Are you sure you aren't restarting setiathome? tail -f tracks the seek > position of the file. If you restart setiathome without restarting the > tail, the logfile will truncate to seek position 0 but the tail will still > be hanging onto whatever seek position it had gotten to before. > > p.s. I'm running setiathome on both of my SMP boxes too. I think it's a > much better use of idle cpu then trying to break encryption keys. I'm > not redirecting it to a log file, though. I spoke too soon. It is working correctly, I think. It is taking *much* longer between updates. It used to display updates once every 'percentage cycle' for setiathome (I would get one update per x.xxxxx% done, and there are typically 9 lines between each run, and eas run inc-ed the % by .1). Now I see one update per full percentage point; the data is obviously being writen to the file more regularly than this, it just isn't seen by tail. I log the output because I run setiathome in the background when the machine comes up, but I want to be able to see its progress. (no, I don't run it as root :) -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 16:23:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luna.lyris.net (unknown [207.90.155.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E363114F76 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 16:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kip@lyris.com) Received: from luna.shelby.com by luna.lyris.net (8.9.1b+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id QAA16739; Sun, 9 May 1999 16:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (luna.shelby.com [207.90.155.6]) by luna.shelby.com with SMTP (MailShield v1.50); Sun, 09 May 1999 16:17:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 16:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: X-Sender: kip@luna To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." Cc: hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: problems with recursion in libc_r In-Reply-To: <19990509091415.E6953@tar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-SMTP-HELO: luna X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kip@lyris.com X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: dick@tar.com,hackers@freeBSD.org X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: luna.shelby.com [207.90.155.6] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Should I actually think about changes to make, or should I simply hold off and let more experienced kernel hackers take care of the fixes? I have previously ported my application, a heavily multithreaded list server, to Linux and am/was totally unimpressed with its performance. The port exists primarily because Linux is such a popular platform. Linux has basically implemented threads as processes with shared memory and used SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 to control communication between them. Needless to say, for any application that uses more than a few threads this is not very fast. When I tried running lyris, the list server, on comparable hardware, on FreeBSD, the throughput was at least 20x that of lyris on Linux. The company I work for would actually like to use FreeBSD for doing list hosting. However, before I start making any modifications to FreeBSD I would like to know that the changes I make will actually be incorporated, so that I will not suffer the same fate as PAO, namely having to reincorporate my changes each new release. -Kip On Sun, 9 May 1999, Richard Seaman, Jr. wrote: > On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 07:50:33PM -0700, kip@lyris.com wrote: > > I am running FreeBSD 3.1 STABLE. There appears to be a problem with > > wrterror and wrtwarning from malloc/free when using threads because it > > calls _thread_fd_lock_ which in turn calls malloc etc. > > I have made a stopgap fix to the two functions, by having them return > > before calling write. I hope that someone else will have a more > > intelligent fix. > > A bit of hackery that might help would be to call _thread_fd_table_init() > for fd's 0 to 2 when libc_r starts up (ie. in _thread_init()) > > There is also a deeper issue, which is that libc (and libc_r) need > multpile versions of some syscalls, such as write(). There needs > to be the "pure syscall", which is libc is _write(), and in libc_r > is _thread_sys_write(). (Ultimately it would be nice if both libc > and libc_r used the same naming convention). Then there needs to > be something like _libc_write(), which is the version of write used > internally to libc (and libc_r). Then finally there needs to be > the version exported to user apps, write(). Maybe there even needs > to be more layers. GNU glibc has at least 4 layers, I think. > > The reason for the multiple layers is that more complex apps, like > threads libraries, end up needing to "wrap" the pure syscall to > implement things like fd locking (libc_r), or pthread_cancellation > points (libc and libc_r). It is not always correct to use the > final wrapped versions of the syscalls within libc or within > threads libraries themselves. > > Then, an internal libc function like malloc would call the appropriate > version of write() that didn't have the potential to recurse. > > > > > A partial trace follows: > > #0 malloc (size=76) at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1066 > > #1 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > > #2 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > > #3 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > > #4 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399c81 "recursive call.\n") at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > > #5 0x8310050 in malloc (size=76) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1069 > > #6 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > > #7 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > > #8 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > > #9 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399b95 "junk pointer, too high to make > > sense.\n") at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > > #10 0x830ffb9 in ifree (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1043 > > #11 0x8310151 in free (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1097 > > #12 0x82e2df1 in __builtin_vec_delete (ptr=0x863c0a0) > > > > > > -Kip > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- > Richard Seaman, Jr. email: dick@tar.com > 5182 N. Maple Lane phone: 414-367-5450 > Chenequa WI 53058 fax: 414-367-5852 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 17:16:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0278F1506F for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA30225; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:46:35 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA21928; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:47:17 +0930 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:47:17 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Jeff Ehrenkrantz Cc: hackers Subject: Re: perl-5.00502 is marked as broken: perl is in system. In-Reply-To: <001101be9a32$c0a602a0$220fdfce@Gccomm.Net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 9 May 1999, Jeff Ehrenkrantz wrote: > I messed up again ..... so i wanted to rebuild perl5 > > but "perl-5.00502 is marked as broken: perl is in system." > is the response from a make in the perl5 ports dir. > > can anyone tell be just what this means and how to get around it? > thanks ..je Perl5 is in the base system in -stable and -current. i.e. it's built from /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl (?). If you're running 2.x, you'll have to take your chances removing the BROKEN line from the port makefile and seeing if it builds (2.x is no longer officially supported by ports). Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 18:32: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luna.lyris.net (unknown [207.90.155.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E659E14D65 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:31:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kip@lyris.com) Received: from luna.shelby.com by luna.lyris.net (8.9.1b+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17150; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (luna.shelby.com [207.90.155.6]) by luna.shelby.com with SMTP (MailShield v1.50); Sun, 09 May 1999 18:26:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 18:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: X-Sender: kip@luna To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." Cc: hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: Sorry and Re: problems with recursion in libc_r In-Reply-To: <19990509091415.E6953@tar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-SMTP-HELO: luna X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: kip@lyris.com X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: dick@tar.com,hackers@freeBSD.org X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: luna.shelby.com [207.90.155.6] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just want to let you know how much I appreciate your getting back to me. I am not sure I conveyed that in my last message. It is not false flattery when I say that I appreciate the quality of FreeBSD. I work with both Linux and FreeBSD everyday, and the difference in the quality of your implementation and theirs is not trivial. Thanks. -Kip On Sun, 9 May 1999, Richard Seaman, Jr. wrote: > On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 07:50:33PM -0700, kip@lyris.com wrote: > > I am running FreeBSD 3.1 STABLE. There appears to be a problem with > > wrterror and wrtwarning from malloc/free when using threads because it > > calls _thread_fd_lock_ which in turn calls malloc etc. > > I have made a stopgap fix to the two functions, by having them return > > before calling write. I hope that someone else will have a more > > intelligent fix. > > A bit of hackery that might help would be to call _thread_fd_table_init() > for fd's 0 to 2 when libc_r starts up (ie. in _thread_init()) > > There is also a deeper issue, which is that libc (and libc_r) need > multpile versions of some syscalls, such as write(). There needs > to be the "pure syscall", which is libc is _write(), and in libc_r > is _thread_sys_write(). (Ultimately it would be nice if both libc > and libc_r used the same naming convention). Then there needs to > be something like _libc_write(), which is the version of write used > internally to libc (and libc_r). Then finally there needs to be > the version exported to user apps, write(). Maybe there even needs > to be more layers. GNU glibc has at least 4 layers, I think. > > The reason for the multiple layers is that more complex apps, like > threads libraries, end up needing to "wrap" the pure syscall to > implement things like fd locking (libc_r), or pthread_cancellation > points (libc and libc_r). It is not always correct to use the > final wrapped versions of the syscalls within libc or within > threads libraries themselves. > > Then, an internal libc function like malloc would call the appropriate > version of write() that didn't have the potential to recurse. > > > > > A partial trace follows: > > #0 malloc (size=76) at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1066 > > #1 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > > #2 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > > #3 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > > #4 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399c81 "recursive call.\n") at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > > #5 0x8310050 in malloc (size=76) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1069 > > #6 0x82ee633 in _thread_fd_table_init (fd=2) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:75 > > #7 0x82eea9b in _thread_fd_lock (fd=2, lock_type=2, timeout=0x0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_fd.c:272 > > #8 0x82e9aa9 in write (fd=2, buf=0xefbfdc27, nbytes=5) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c:58 > > #9 0x830f370 in wrtwarning (p=0x8399b95 "junk pointer, too high to make > > sense.\n") at /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:292 > > #10 0x830ffb9 in ifree (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1043 > > #11 0x8310151 in free (ptr=0x863c0a0) at > > /usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/stdlib/malloc.c:1097 > > #12 0x82e2df1 in __builtin_vec_delete (ptr=0x863c0a0) > > > > > > -Kip > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- > Richard Seaman, Jr. email: dick@tar.com > 5182 N. Maple Lane phone: 414-367-5450 > Chenequa WI 53058 fax: 414-367-5852 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 9 22: 4:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F6A156C3 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA27028 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 01:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905100504.BAA27028@cs.rpi.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SCSI negotiates slow transfers Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 01:04:41 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This has been an ongoing problem, with 2 onboard Adaptec 78xx controllers. The HD in question is a Quantum Atlas III/Ultra2--LVD drive. On bootup the SCSI BIOS seems to detect the drive correctly (listing it as a Ultra2- LVD device); however the FreeBSD kernel reports it as a "Fixed Direct Access SCSI-CCS device". Below are my dmesg and config file ouyputs. dmesg--- Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02fa000. Preloaded splash_image_data "/etc/splash/saturn_1_320.bmp" at 0xc02fa09c. Preloaded elf module "splash_bmp.ko" at 0xc02fa0f8. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x03 on pci0.1.0 chip2: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x01 on pci0.4.1 chip3: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.3 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 16 on pci0.6.0 bogus MP table, 3 IO APIC pins connected to the same PCI device or ISA/EISA interrupt Registered extra interrupt handler for int 18 (in addition to int 16) Registered extra interrupt handler for int 19 (in addition to int 16) ahc0: aic7890/91 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs xl0: <3Com 3c900-TPO Etherlink XL> rev 0x00 int a irq 16 on pci0.10.0 bogus MP table, 3 IO APIC pins connected to the same PCI device or ISA/EISA interrupt Registered extra interrupt handler for int 18 (in addition to int 16) Registered extra interrupt handler for int 19 (in addition to int 16) xl0: Ethernet address: 00:60:08:a9:db:e2 xl0: selecting 10baseT transceiver, half duplex Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: vga0: rev 0x04 int a irq 16 on pci1.0.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <4 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 irq 12 on isa psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 6149MB (12594960 sectors), 13328 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd1: 4924MB (10085040 sectors), 10672 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis acd0: drive speed 689KB/sec, 128KB cache acd0: supported read types: acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked, lock protected wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, dma, iordy acd1: drive speed 1377KB/sec, 256KB cache acd1: supported read types: acd1: Audio: play, 256 volume levels acd1: Mechanism: ejectable tray acd1: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked, lock protected ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/9 bytes threshold ppb0: IEEE1284 device found /NIBBLE Probing for PnP devices on ppbus0: ppbus0: HP ENHANCED PCL5,PJL 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x310 ep0 at 0x310-0x31f irq 11 on isa ep0: utp[*UTP*] address 00:a0:24:12:8d:10 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa APIC_IO: Testing 8254 interrupt delivery APIC_IO: routing 8254 via pin 2 IP packet filtering initialized, divert enabled, rule-based forwarding disabled, unlimited logging Waiting 2 seconds for SCSI devices to settle SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-CCS device da0: 3.300MB/s transfers da0: 8683MB (17783249 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) config---- machine "i386" cpu "I686_CPU" ident PHOENIX_DUAL maxusers 64 options FAILSAFE options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel config kernel root on wd0s2a options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "MD5" options UCONSOLE options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options "NO_F00F_HACK" options SOFTUPDATES options DDB options DDB_UNATTENDED pseudo-device ether #Generic Ethernet pseudo-device loop #Network loopback device pseudo-device bpfilter 8 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device tun 4 options INET #Internet communications protocols # options NETATALK options IPFIREWALL options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options IPDIVERT options FFS #Fast filesystem options FFS_ROOT options NFS #Network File System options MSDOSFS #MS DOS File System options KERNFS #Kernel Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" options "AUTO_EOI_1" options KTRACE options PERFMON options USER_LDT pseudo-device pty 256 #Pseudo ttys - can go as high as 256 pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn 4 #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) controller isa0 device sc0 at isa? tty options MAXCONS=4 # number of virtual consoles controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 options "CMD640" controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM device acd0 device acd1 device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD tty device atkbd0 at isa? tty irq 1 device psm0 at isa? tty irq 12 device vga0 at isa? port ? conflicts pseudo-device splash device ppc0 at isa? port? net irq 7 controller ppbus0 device nlpt0 at ppbus? device ep0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 device xl0 controller pci0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device da0 #SCSI disks device sa0 #SCSI tapes controller smbus0 controller iicbus0 controller iicbb0 device bktr0 at iicbus? device ic0 at iicbus? device iic0 at iicbus? device iicsmb0 at iicbus? device smb0 at smbus? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 0:14: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from idefix.omnix.net (idefix.omnix.net [195.154.168.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026C21554C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:14:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idefix.omnix.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15199 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:14:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:14:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Didier Derny X-Sender: didier@idefix To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: HELP! (increasing kernel memory) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, for the SQL server, I need a large shared memory (SHMMAXPGS=9216) I have maxusers = 512 the memory is actually of 256Mb and will be increased to 1Gb the kernel is still a.out [I have no possibility to stop the machine to upgrade to 3.1-RELEASE or 3.1-STABLE (upgrade planned in july/august)] (I'm running FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE on a dual pentium II machine [ASUS P2B mother board] everything works just fine except that we need to largely increase the shared memories and the semaphores]) is VM_KMEM_SIZE working with FreeBSD-3.0-RELEASE ? what value would you suggest ? thanks for your help ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Didier Derny | FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Site Email: didier@omnix.net | Microsoft Free Computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 0:16:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3C51554C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA01088 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:15:54 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3.2 Freeze date Message-ID: <19990510001554.A1053@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the 3.2 freeze date ? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 2: 5:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7171414CCB for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA51630; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:05:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 00:15:54 PDT." <19990510001554.A1053@ontario.mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:05:43 -0700 Message-ID: <51627.926327143@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What is the 3.2 freeze date ? Tuesday May 11, 0600 GMT. > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 2: 8:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC7714CA9; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id CAA84082; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990510020843.D83714@nuxi.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:08:43 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 11:34:48AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (I lean towards the Mission Ranch in Carmel, but I'm not sure how far > it is from the Conference Center). Far enough that you will have to round up cars. If I remember correctly Carmel would be 20min or so from USENIX central. So this would probably be a bad idea. From the web page I can't get a suffient address to use with http://www.mapquest.com/ to be sure. IMHO, something on Fisherman's Wharf would be nice, since that gives the flavor of Monterey. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 2:21:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE3C14CB4; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA16842; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:51:36 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA54279; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:51:36 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:51:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Message-ID: <19990510185135.J22791@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990510020843.D83714@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990510020843.D83714@nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 02:08:43AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 10 May 1999 at 2:08:43 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: >> (I lean towards the Mission Ranch in Carmel, but I'm not sure how far >> it is from the Conference Center). > > Far enough that you will have to round up cars. If I remember correctly > Carmel would be 20min or so from USENIX central. So this would probably > be a bad idea. > >> From the web page I can't get a suffient address to use with > http://www.mapquest.com/ to be sure. > > IMHO, something on Fisherman's Wharf would be nice, since that gives the > flavor of Monterey. Agreed on both points. How about Domenico's? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 2:23:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4474A151F3 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id CAA84291; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990510022344.F83714@nuxi.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:23:44 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Warner Losh , "M. L. Dodson" Cc: Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD's make easily ported to non-BSD UNICES? Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199905052110.QAA27980@beowulf.utmb.edu> <87btfzutqa.fsf@muon.xs4all.nl> <199905052110.QAA27980@beowulf.utmb.edu> <199905080623.AAA09359@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905080623.AAA09359@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Sat, May 08, 1999 at 12:23:39AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : IRIX Release 6.4 IP30 tryptophan > : /usr/sbin/pmake > > Is that the same as pmake :-). From a quick read of the manpage, I'd say it either is, or a damned near clone -- including .TARGET/.ALLSRC and Mpattern,Npattern,S/search-string/replacement-string/[g] for example. ``strings /usr/sbin/pmake'' doesn't show any useful copyright notice or anything. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 3:40:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haddock.euitt.upm.es (haddock.euitt.upm.es [138.100.52.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50FA1532F for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 03:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pjlobo@euitt.upm.es) Received: from localhost (pjlobo@localhost) by haddock.euitt.upm.es (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15688 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:24:07 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:24:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Pedro J. Lobo" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: What is a "transmit underflow"? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, all. I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The cards have DEC chips (21140A). The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the following messages: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether I have to worry about this or not. TIA, Pedro. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pedro José Lobo Perea Tel: +34 91 336 78 19 Centro de Cálculo Fax: +34 91 331 92 29 E.U.I.T. Telecomunicación e-mail: pjlobo@euitt.upm.es Universidad Politécnica de Madrid Ctra. de Valencia, Km. 7 E-28031 Madrid - España / Spain To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 3:56:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC8914FD0 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 03:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27266; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA19577; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id GAA08880; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:56:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <51627.926327143@zippy.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > What is the 3.2 freeze date ? > > Tuesday May 11, 0600 GMT. > Just out of curiosity - how does one ensure a fix that got sent in will or will not be in 3.2? (I'm mostly interested in `kern/11469' - a fix to the 1542 driver.) - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 4:30:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.sogyo.nl (mail.sogyo.nl [195.86.118.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB691544C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 04:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from remy1@dds.nl) Received: by mail.sogyo.nl from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Mon, 10 May 1999 13:30:18 +0200 Received: from flash [10.5.2.36] by mail.sogyo.nl [195.86.118.6] (SLmail 3.2.3113) with SMTP id DFE37999FDFF11D2A46A006008D52031 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:30:18 0200 Message-ID: <001a01be9ad8$7b5712b0$2402050a@flash> From: "Remy de Ruysscher" To: References: <199905052110.QAA27980@beowulf.utmb.edu> <87btfzutqa.fsf@muon.xs4all.nl> <199905052110.QAA27980@beowulf.utmb.edu> <199905080623.AAA09359@harmony.village.org> <19990510022344.F83714@nuxi.com> Subject: Mylex [Buslogic] Flashpoint Support? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:30:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-SLUIDL: A5DA8728-FE0311D2-A46A0060-08D52031 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm new to FreeBSD, so don't flame me for possible incorrect use of this mailinglist. I was wondering if there is a working kernel/driver for FreeBSD 3.1 with Mylex Flashpoint support (SCSI HA). Thanks! Remy de Ruysscher To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 6:35:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9EEA15130; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA42215; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:35:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199905101335.PAA42215@freebsd.dk> Subject: vgl-990112.tgz anybody got it still ?? To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:35:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I lost that file due to fatfingering a cleanup :) I can see that several people has downloaded it from my ftp-site so does anybody still have it, and could mail/ftp me a copy ?? Thanks -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 8:14:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ftp.dns.ne.jp (ftp.dns.ne.jp [210.155.3.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78271532B; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanimura@sakuramail.com) Received: from silver.carrots (yksk5DS11.kng.mesh.ad.jp [210.147.34.149]) by ftp.dns.ne.jp (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04610; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:04:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by silver.carrots (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA05492; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:04:58 +0900 (JST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Cc: nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de, zinnia@jan.ne.jp Cc: Seigo TANIMURA Subject: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports From: Seigo TANIMURA X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990511000457S.tanimura@sakuramail.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:04:57 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 31 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! After a week of struggle, I am pleased very much to announce that Luigi's sound driver now has a midi interface and a sequencer! Although we have the midi interface driver only for a serial port at this moment, our driver and sequencer play a midi sequence just as they do under VoxWare drivers! For those interested, please have a go to: http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/freebsd-serialmidi/ The midi interface and the sequencer for LGSND are at alpha quality. You can only output midi messages, not input. Some ioctl(2)s are missing. The documentation for our midi driver framework is not ready yet. Sorry for that. Thanks! Seigo TANIMURA |M2, Nakagawa Lab, Dept of Electronics & CS =========================|Faculty of Engineering, Yokohama National Univ Powered by SIEMENS, |http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/ FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT |http://www.sakura.ne.jp/~tcarrot/ (9th May 1999) & muesli. |tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp tcarrot@sakuramail.com VoxWare/LGSND Midi Driver for Serial Ports on FreeBSD: http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/freebsd-serialmidi/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 8:59:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CADB14C04 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id JAA76770; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:59:47 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199905101559.JAA76770@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Mylex [Buslogic] Flashpoint Support? In-Reply-To: <001a01be9ad8$7b5712b0$2402050a@flash> from Remy de Ruysscher at "May 10, 1999 1:30: 6 pm" To: remy1@dds.nl (Remy de Ruysscher) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:59:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Remy de Ruysscher wrote... > Hi, > > I'm new to FreeBSD, so don't flame me for possible incorrect use of this > mailinglist. > I was wondering if there is a working kernel/driver for FreeBSD 3.1 with > Mylex Flashpoint support (SCSI HA). There are no BusLogic Flashpoint drivers for any version of FreeBSD. There probably will be a driver at some point, but it won't be in FreeBSD 3.2. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 10:45:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scallop.baynetworks.com (ns5.baynetworks.com [194.133.90.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3C215915 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@engeast.BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by scallop.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16612 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:43:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09111; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA23885; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:41:58 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07716; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:41:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199905101741.NAA07716@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: AMD: local overrides on NIS maps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:41:54 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I need to be able to locally (or on an OS basis) override mount options in AMD maps, but I've been unsuccessful. Assume I have a amd.conf that reads, in part: [ /foo/home ] map_name = foo_home and a NIS map (foo_home) that contains exactly: bwithrow -type:=nfs;rfs:=/home/bwithrow; rhost:=pizzahut I want to restrict NFS to be version 2 and UDP for certain hosts (say freebsd ones ;-) *without* modifying the map, because that may is centrally maintained and I don't want system/os specific things in it. I might want to modify other things (like rsize and wsize) on a specific machine basis, and that *clearly* shouldn't be in the map. As far as I can tell, nothing I put in amd.conf will affect the mount options in this map. (And before suggesting doing that, please try it out on a system to be sure it works!) Any suggestions on how I can override mount options locally? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 11: 9:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 288D8159F6 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:09:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA29325 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:57:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:57:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My impression is that whenever you create a socket, you bind to some IP address. If you creates two sockets on the same machine, these two sockets will bind to the same IP address (assuming that the machine has only one NIC). When these two sockets communicate with each other, the OS should be smart enough to figure out that they associated with the same IP address and therefore do not actually send packets out to the network. If this is the case, why do we bind a socket to an IP address. I mean, the sockets should be able to be used alone. If they have to be bound to an IP address to be used, why do not we use message queue of SYS V? If so, which mechanism is better - message queue or standalone socket? I hope some guru will enlightment me on this subject. Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 11:28: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC1F14C1E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from localhost (cyouse@localhost) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA70474; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:24:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.cybersites.com: cyouse owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:24:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Youse To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That's why you can create sockets in the UNIX domain (AF_UNIX, later renamed AF_LOCAL). When you bind a UNIX domain socket, it's bound to a name in the filesystem. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > My impression is that whenever you create a socket, you bind to some IP > address. If you creates two sockets on the same machine, these two > sockets will bind to the same IP address (assuming that the machine has > only one NIC). When these two sockets communicate with each other, the OS > should be smart enough to figure out that they associated with the same IP > address and therefore do not actually send packets out to the network. > > If this is the case, why do we bind a socket to an IP address. I mean, > the sockets should be able to be used alone. If they have to be bound to > an IP address to be used, why do not we use message queue of SYS V? If > so, which mechanism is better - message queue or standalone socket? > > I hope some guru will enlightment me on this subject. > > Any help is appreciated. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 11:40:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2989E15199 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA69281; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:37:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905101837.LAA69281@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Pedro J. Lobo" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi, all. : :I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port :ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The :cards have DEC chips (21140A). : :The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the :following messages: : :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) : :What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether :I have to worry about this or not. : :TIA, : : Pedro. : :Pedro José Lobo Perea Tel: +34 91 336 78 19 Don't worry about it, it happens with most tulip-based cards. The cards seem to have a hard time staging DMA but the device driver takes care of it. We have some machines that bump it all the way up to 1024. de0: enabling 100baseTX port de0: enabling Full Duplex 100baseTX port ... de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) ... de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) ... de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 11:55:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8668615C9B for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA59450 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:39:11 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:39:00 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16090; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:38:59 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00711; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905101838.LAA00711@rhapture.apple.com> To: Zhihui Zhang Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:38:50 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Zhihui Zhang > Date: 1999-05-10 11:11:45 -0700 > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > My impression is that whenever you create a socket, you bind to some IP > address. If you creates two sockets on the same machine, these two > sockets will bind to the same IP address (assuming that the machine has > only one NIC). When these two sockets communicate with each other, the OS > should be smart enough to figure out that they associated with the same IP > address and therefore do not actually send packets out to the network. > > If this is the case, why do we bind a socket to an IP address. I mean, > the sockets should be able to be used alone. If they have to be bound to > an IP address to be used, why do not we use message queue of SYS V? If > so, which mechanism is better - message queue or standalone socket? Typically, the "server" (receiver) end of the initiated connection will bind either to INADDR_ANY, with a well-known port. If the server is really concerned with networking details, it might determine the addresses and interfaces on the system, and bind separately to each. The client (initiator) will generally always bind to INADDR_ANY, and let the system choose a port. One reason to use IP is that you may, in the future, want to run the two pieces on different systems. If so, you can do it without code changes. If your app is always going to run on a single system, there are better ways to implement it. Local-domain sockets is one; pipes is another (which may or may not be implemented with local-domain sockets). SysV message queues could be used as well. Don't know enough about their limitations to know whether it's a good choice, though. Also, even tho the binds are done with INADDR_ANY, at the time a connection is made, a real address is assigned. This is how IP works. Why is this a problem? Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12: 3:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A8C9214D9B for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA29673; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:51:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang Reply-To: Zhihui Zhang To: Chuck Youse Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Youse wrote: > > That's why you can create sockets in the UNIX domain (AF_UNIX, later > renamed AF_LOCAL). When you bind a UNIX domain socket, it's bound to a > name in the filesystem. Thanks for the reply. So a socket must be bound to something to be used. You mention a name in the filesystem, does the file exist before binding or not? It seems to be a temporary file. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12:11:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5201E15A73 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29733; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:00:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:00:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: "Justin C. Walker" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: <199905101838.LAA00711@rhapture.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If your app is always going to run on a single system, there are > better ways to implement it. Local-domain sockets is one; pipes is > another (which may or may not be implemented with local-domain > sockets). SysV message queues could be used as well. Don't know > enough about their limitations to know whether it's a good choice, > though. > Thanks for the reply. I read some source code. In it, a server process create a single socket to accept packets from both local client processes and remote clients processes. This should be bad for performance. Am I right? According to your suggestion, it may be better to create one local-domain socket (I will figure how to use it later) for local clients and another socket for the remote clients. Regards, -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12:13:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D0314E37 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from localhost (cyouse@localhost) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA73905; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:10:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.cybersites.com: cyouse owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:10:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Youse To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Binding the socket actually creates the entry in the filesystem, and as stated in the manpage for bind(2), you must unlink it to get rid of it when you're finished. As the other respondent mentioned (my apologies to that other respondent, I've already deleted your reply and hence don't have your name handy), using UNIX domain sockets makes migration to separate machines more difficult. It might be better to bind an AF_INET socket to 127.0.0.1 (to prevent other machines from accessing the service, if that's your concern) .. the loopback interface is pretty quick about turning packets around, so there's little (if any) performance hit. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Youse wrote: > > > > > That's why you can create sockets in the UNIX domain (AF_UNIX, later > > renamed AF_LOCAL). When you bind a UNIX domain socket, it's bound to a > > name in the filesystem. > > Thanks for the reply. So a socket must be bound to something to be used. > You mention a name in the filesystem, does the file exist before binding > or not? It seems to be a temporary file. > > -Zhihui > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12:27:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED19E14FB0 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00025; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:48:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Youse wrote: > > > > > That's why you can create sockets in the UNIX domain (AF_UNIX, later > > renamed AF_LOCAL). When you bind a UNIX domain socket, it's bound to a > > name in the filesystem. > > Thanks for the reply. So a socket must be bound to something to be used. > You mention a name in the filesystem, does the file exist before binding > or not? It seems to be a temporary file. You would benifit greatly by purchaing "Unix Netowrk Programming Vol 1" by Stevens. several things: you can communicate locally via a socket, the kernel detects this and uses the loopback device, i'm quite sure that it will use a fast impelementation of a local pipe you can use named socket, yes they _do_ appear in the filesystem, the entry should look like a directory, except that the 'd' is an 's' the only "problem" with sockets instead of SYSV messages is that there are no "boundries", it's just a stream of binary gloop, SYSV message queues allow you to specify the size of each message sent. Otherwise you have to sort of fake it and agree on a protocol for expressing message size... does this make sense? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12:38:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A77E14E37 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FF61F73; Tue, 11 May 1999 03:38:21 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "Pedro J. Lobo" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 11:37:57 MST." <199905101837.LAA69281@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 03:38:21 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <19990510193823.C9FF61F73@spinner.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > :Hi, all. > : > :I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port > :ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The > :cards have DEC chips (21140A). > : > :The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the > :following messages: > : > :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > : > :What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether > :I have to worry about this or not. > : > :TIA, > : > : Pedro. > : > :Pedro José Lobo Perea Tel: +34 91 336 78 19 > > Don't worry about it, it happens with most tulip-based cards. The cards > seem to have a hard time staging DMA but the device driver takes care > of it. We have some machines that bump it all the way up to 1024. > > de0: enabling 100baseTX port > de0: enabling Full Duplex 100baseTX port > ... > de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > ... > de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) > ... > de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) And the next in the sequence is 'switching to store-and-forward mode'. It's a real puzzle to me why this happens. Take the 1024 example, the busmaster engine fetches 1024 bytes into the 2K fifo before beginning the packet transmission, and yet, with 1024 out of ~1500 bytes prefetched, it still exhausts the fifo.. The transmitter has managed to send 1024 bytes at 100mbit/sec (~10mbyte/sec) faster than the PCI bus could fetch the remaining 512 bytes via bursting at 133mbyte/sec. The refill should be ~13 times faster than the transmit rate and yet it gets an underflow and chops the packet. The only thing I can think of is that the PCI configuration is hosed and the bus-master engine is getting completely starved for a while (latency timers wrong?), or the chipset goes off to lala land and forgets to refill, or something that the driver is doing to the chip is somehow stalling the transmit process. I think Bill Paul has found another chipset (if_mx? macronix?) that has similar behavior. I think I recall Bill telling me the windows dc2x4x driver runs in store-and-forward mode always. As a footnote, one of these cards (SMC9332BDT) is in a VIA MVP3 chipset motherboard, with a Matrox card in a pci slot, the other system that's having these problems is an old P5-90 SMP system and it's sharing it's bus with an EISA bus and an AHA2742T eisa controller. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 12:46:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C0015D30 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14283; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:44:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:44:33 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Peter Wemm Cc: Matthew Dillon , "Pedro J. Lobo" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? In-Reply-To: <19990510193823.C9FF61F73@spinner.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This almost always happens for tulip chips && and alpha platforms and Matt Thomas' de driver. On Tue, 11 May 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :Hi, all. > > : > > :I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port > > :ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The > > :cards have DEC chips (21140A). > > : > > :The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the > > :following messages: > > : > > :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > : > > :What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether > > :I have to worry about this or not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 13: 2:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz (ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.19.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9941152BC for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mkop5230@ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz) Received: from beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz (mkop5230@beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.16.70]) by ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01500; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:02:10 +0200 Received: from localhost (mkop5230@localhost) by beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz (980427.SGI.8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA52692; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:02:10 +0200 (MDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:02:10 +0200 From: Milan Kopacka Reply-To: Milan Kopacka To: Chuck Robey Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux compat question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 6 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Get "file" package from your favorite Linux mirror site. :) > > No, 1) there is no "file" package (at least not in Debian, I checked) > 2) the "fileutils" package, which I did find, didn't have file. The file package contained in RH Linux originates from ftp://ftp.astron.com/pub/file/ I think you can track such information in Debian easily too. > I don't think I need it anymore, but since I got this same advice now > from two places, it seems the old adage holds: the only folks who will > give you directions are those who don't know where it is. Nice. :) Milan Kopacka To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 13:14:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peedub.muc.de (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9AEE1526D for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA74136; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:45:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199905101945.VAA74136@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 15:00:39 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:45:26 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zhihui Zhang writes: > >> >> If your app is always going to run on a single system, there are >> better ways to implement it. Local-domain sockets is one; pipes is >> another (which may or may not be implemented with local-domain >> sockets). SysV message queues could be used as well. Don't know >> enough about their limitations to know whether it's a good choice, >> though. >> > >Thanks for the reply. I read some source code. In it, a server process >create a single socket to accept packets from both local client processes >and remote clients processes. This should be bad for performance. Am I >right? According to your suggestion, it may be better to create one >local-domain socket (I will figure how to use it later) for local clients >and another socket for the remote clients. > This is an accept socket. It's only used to inform the server that a connection request has arrived from a client. When the server does an accept a new socket is created for that connection. I don't want to be unfriendly, but this stuff is all documented in the man pages. Try reading them before using precious bandwidth on the lists. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 14: 4:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F4B14F11 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@MessagingDirect.COM) Received: from MessagingDirect.COM (zappa.esys.ca [198.161.92.28]) by rembrandt.esys.ca (2.1/8.9.1/Execmail 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA13125; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:03:48 -0600 Message-Id: <199905102103.PAA13125@rembrandt.esys.ca> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:03:45 -0600 From: Lyndon.Nerenberg@MessagingDirect.COM Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue To: cyouse@cybersites.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10 May, Chuck Youse wrote: > As the other respondent mentioned (my apologies to that other respondent, > I've already deleted your reply and hence don't have your name handy), > using UNIX domain sockets makes migration to separate machines more > difficult. It might be better to bind an AF_INET socket to 127.0.0.1 (to > prevent other machines from accessing the service, if that's your concern) > .. the loopback interface is pretty quick about turning packets around, > so there's little (if any) performance hit. However an AF_INET loopback connection still means a trip through the IP stack in the kernel, whereas AF_LOCAL basically does simple buffer copies between the processes. Usually you can pick up quite a bit of additional throughput on local connections by using AF_LOCAL. It's worth your while to benchmark the difference between AF_INET/127.0.0.1 and AF_LOCAL *on the OS the application will run on* to see how much of a speed-up AF_LOCAL will give you. (We've seen quite a bit of variance in the amount speed up across different flavours of UNIXen.) --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 14:40: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0046614A2E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id XAA12105; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:21:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01411; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:00:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905102100.XAA01411@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "May 10, 1999 12:44:33 pm" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:00:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: peter@netplex.com.au, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, pjlobo@euitt.upm.es, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > This almost always happens for tulip chips && and alpha platforms and Matt > Thomas' de driver. I have also seen it quite often on i386, it is not limited to alpha > On Tue, 11 May 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > :Hi, all. > > > : > > > :I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port > > > :ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The > > > :cards have DEC chips (21140A). > > > : > > > :The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the > > > :following messages: > > > : > > > :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > > :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > > : > > > :What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether > > > :I have to worry about this or not. Not to worry, it keeps working just fine in my experience. Groeten / Cheers, | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 14:57:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811EB15510 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.pmr.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA11544 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:56:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:56:48 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: hackers list Subject: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990510165648.A11450@luke.pmr.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? Thanks, Bob -- Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:17:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0514D45 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11495; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905102218.SAA11495@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:11:34 -0400 To: Wilko Bulte From: Dennis Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905102100.XAA01411@yedi.iaf.nl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:00 PM 5/10/99 +0200, you wrote: >As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > >> This almost always happens for tulip chips && and alpha platforms and Matt >> Thomas' de driver. > >I have also seen it quite often on i386, it is not limited to alpha > >> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: >> >> > Matthew Dillon wrote: >> > > :Hi, all. >> > > : >> > > :I've got two FreeBSD boxes (3.1-R) working as routers, one with two 4-port >> > > :ZNYX 10/100 ethernet cards and the other with one of those cards. The >> > > :cards have DEC chips (21140A). >> > > : >> > > :The routers are working perfectly, but from time to time I get the >> > > :following messages: >> > > : >> > > :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) >> > > :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) >> > > : >> > > :What do they mean? Everything seems to be OK, but I'd like to know wether >> > > :I have to worry about this or not. > >Not to worry, it keeps working just fine in my experience. > >Groeten / Cheers, In case some of you care, here is what it is. The proper term is "transmitter underrun", but that is not really important. Once a frame has begun transmission (and this goes for HDLC and other continuous packet protocols as well), all of the bytes of the frame/packet must be in contiguous time slots until the complete end of frame has been sent. With a bus master, the board must be able to fetch the data from system memory in time to fill all the slots. If the device cannot get the bus (usually because some other device has it) in time to fill the slot, then the frame must be aborted and an underrun occurs. If you get a lot of these it basically means that you are out of bus bandwidth or that some other device is hogging the bus. This is typically why you will start to lose packets, no matter how fast your CPU is, at some point where contention for the bus is too high. Since most devices give priority to the receiver, problems usually manifest themselves as transmitter underruns first. Dennis Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com ISA and PCI T1/T3/V35/HSSI Cards for FreeBSD and LINUX HSSI/T3 UNIX-based Routers Bandwidth Manager http://www.etinc.com/bwmgr.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:26: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C46914BDA for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA33487; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA05610; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905102225.QAA05610@harmony.village.org> To: Thomas David Rivers Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date Cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 06:56:42 EDT." <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> References: <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:25:02 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: : (I'm mostly interested in `kern/11469' - a fix to the 1542 driver.) I'll make sure that gets in or is rejected explicitly. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:31:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB9A15082 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA49471; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Bob Willcox Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990510165648.A11450@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. Not this year, pal. The lady was clear on that. You could find better places to stick your cash, for the moment. To tell you the truth, I just bought Word Perfect (for Linux) and it's *way* smaller, only about 100 megs installed (including help files), and a good deal. I could wish it was FreeBSD-native, but I haven't been able to tell, yet, any difference. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:36:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC31152A7 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.pmr.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA11929; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:36:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:36:05 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <19990510165648.A11450@luke.pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:28:44PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:28:44PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > > scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > > this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > > When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. Wow! By November of 2000 I may be retired. :-) > > Not this year, pal. The lady was clear on that. You could find better > places to stick your cash, for the moment. To tell you the truth, I > just bought Word Perfect (for Linux) and it's *way* smaller, only about > 100 megs installed (including help files), and a good deal. I could > wish it was FreeBSD-native, but I haven't been able to tell, yet, any > difference. Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? Bob -- Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:39:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DEA1512B for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27549; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:39:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: Chuck Robey Cc: Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is >> scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in >> this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > >When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. This is getting out of hand. It's pretty clear none of us understand what's up behind the scenes on this, because I'd swear the thing could have been written from scratch in less time than this port is going to take. *Grumble* Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:47: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410DE1552F for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01781; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905102243.PAA01781@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brian Handy Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 16:39:20 MDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:43:49 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > >> scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > >> this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > > > >When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. > > This is getting out of hand. It's pretty clear none of us understand > what's up behind the scenes on this, because I'd swear the thing could > have been written from scratch in less time than this port is going to > take. You're correct, you don't. But since the last time I looked there was over a GB of data in the Applixware source tree, no, I doubt very much that it could have been written in that timeframe. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 15:49:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A565515183 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA58966; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:49:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:49:05 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Dennis Cc: Wilko Bulte , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? In-Reply-To: <199905102218.SAA11495@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Dennis wrote: > In case some of you care, here is what it is. The proper term is > "transmitter underrun", but that is not really important. > > Once a frame has begun transmission (and this goes for HDLC and other > continuous packet protocols as well), all of the bytes of the frame/packet > must be in contiguous time slots until the complete end of frame has been > sent. With a bus master, the board must be able to fetch the data from > system memory in time to fill all the slots. If the device cannot get the > bus (usually because some other device has it) in time to fill the slot, > then the frame must be aborted and an underrun occurs. If you get a lot of > these it basically means that you are out of bus bandwidth or that some > other device is hogging the bus. This is typically why you will start to > lose packets, no matter how fast your CPU is, at some point where > contention for the bus is too high. Since most devices give priority to the > receiver, problems usually manifest themselves as transmitter underruns first. I don't think this is the case with the tulip. I have one alpha machine which exhibits the problem and it *always* happens on the first large nfs write the machine makes. Nothing else in the machine is using the bus for anything significant at the time. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 16:21: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C83515298 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27758; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:20:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:20:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: Mike Smith Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <199905102243.PAA01781@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> This is getting out of hand. It's pretty clear none of us understand >> what's up behind the scenes on this, because I'd swear the thing could >> have been written from scratch in less time than this port is going to >> take. > >You're correct, you don't. Fair enough. Can you throw us some kind of a bone as to why the delivery date keeps leaping ahead, a year at a time? When I put my deposit down, it was due in November of 1998. A cursory search through mail shows a explanation from Jordan that there were various logistical problems, those were overcome, Applix is now aware of the demand for this product, blah, blah, blah. The dates keep moving, the explanations remain non-existent. The customers who invested in this worthy cause might merit some small explanation why delivery date has thus far moved ahead two years. Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 16:32:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mom.hooked.net (mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F6E15298 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from fish.hooked.net (garbanzo@fish.hooked.net [206.80.6.48]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14730; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Brian Handy Cc: Mike Smith , Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Brian Handy wrote: > The dates keep moving, the explanations remain non-existent. The > customers who invested in this worthy cause might merit some small > explanation why delivery date has thus far moved ahead two years. Perhaps you should demand your money back? After all, there are open source alternatives that could put your money to good use. - alex You better believe that marijuana can cause castration. Just suppose your girlfriend gets the munchies! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 16:34:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E81815BE7 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27818; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:33:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Mike Smith , Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> The dates keep moving, the explanations remain non-existent. The >> customers who invested in this worthy cause might merit some small >> explanation why delivery date has thus far moved ahead two years. > >Perhaps you should demand your money back? Maybe I should, but I won't. Open source is great, but I also support commercial entities making a buck off me as well, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying it's easier to stay in the game when you have the warm fuzzies that someone's really working on the problem and forward progress is being made. Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:47:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D06515A0C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02226 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:22 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (scv4.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:18 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv4.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA53500; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:37:39 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00634; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905110039.RAA00634@rhapture.apple.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue Cc: Zhihui Zhang , Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:15 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Alfred Perlstein > Date: 1999-05-10 12:27:53 -0700 > To: Zhihui Zhang > Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue > Cc: Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: > > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Youse wrote: > > > > > > > > That's why you can create sockets in the UNIX domain (AF_UNIX, later > > > renamed AF_LOCAL). When you bind a UNIX domain socket, it's bound to a > > > name in the filesystem. > > > > Thanks for the reply. So a socket must be bound to something to be used. > > You mention a name in the filesystem, does the file exist before binding > > or not? It seems to be a temporary file. > > You would benifit greatly by purchaing "Unix Netowrk Programming Vol 1" > by Stevens. Agreed; V. 2 is an excellent "code walkthrough" of the BSD 4.3 implementation. > several things: > > you can communicate locally via a socket, the kernel detects this > and uses the loopback device, i'm quite sure that it will use a > fast impelementation of a local pipe No. The kernel will note that the destination is local, and use the loopback interface, but you will still use the IP and TCP stacks. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:48:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C2715C38 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA36848 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:35:57 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:35:47 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31364 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:35:45 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00629 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905110035.RAA00629@rhapture.apple.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: <199905101838.LAA00711@rhapture.apple.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:35:40 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Zhihui Zhang > Date: 1999-05-10 12:13:30 -0700 > To: "Justin C. Walker" > Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: <199905101838.LAA00711@rhapture.apple.com> > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > > If your app is always going to run on a single system, there are > > better ways to implement it. Local-domain sockets is one; pipes is > > another (which may or may not be implemented with local-domain > > sockets). SysV message queues could be used as well. Don't know > > enough about their limitations to know whether it's a good choice, > > though. > > > > Thanks for the reply. I read some source code. In it, a server process > create a single socket to accept packets from both local client processes > and remote clients processes. This should be bad for performance. Am I > right? According to your suggestion, it may be better to create one > local-domain socket (I will figure how to use it later) for local clients > and another socket for the remote clients. This is a function of performance and the headache of having separate setup for the local and remote cases. It's the developer's call. Once the connection is set up, though, the code that uses the socket shouldn't care (much) about what kind of socket it is. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:56:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C620F158C2 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11754 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:56:11 -0700 Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:56:00 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32604; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:55:58 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00653; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905110055.RAA00653@rhapture.apple.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Zhihui Zhang , Chuck Youse In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:55:57 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: "Justin C. Walker" > > > > You would benifit greatly by purchaing "Unix Netowrk Programming Vol 1" > > by Stevens. > Agreed; V. 2 is an excellent "code walkthrough" of the BSD 4.3 > implementation. Argh! Ignore the typist behind the curtain. He didn't read what he was answering... Sigh... Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:57:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B280151C9 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA23839; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00820; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id UAA19688; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:57:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199905110057.UAA19688@lakes.dignus.com> To: imp@harmony.village.org, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199905102225.QAA05610@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In message <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: > : (I'm mostly interested in `kern/11469' - a fix to the 1542 driver.) > > I'll make sure that gets in or is rejected explicitly. > > Warner > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Thanks... - Dave R. - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:58:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E881E15579 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.pmr.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA12884; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:56:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:56:37 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Chuck Robey Cc: Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990510185637.A12837@luke.pmr.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:50:12PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:50:12PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:28:44PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > > > > scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > > > > this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > > > > > > When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. > > > > Wow! By November of 2000 I may be retired. :-) > > > > > > > > Not this year, pal. The lady was clear on that. You could find better > > > places to stick your cash, for the moment. To tell you the truth, I > > > just bought Word Perfect (for Linux) and it's *way* smaller, only about > > > 100 megs installed (including help files), and a good deal. I could > > > wish it was FreeBSD-native, but I haven't been able to tell, yet, any > > > difference. > > > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? > > Mail me a Word document. I'm not sure, I'll have to try it. I don't do > any Windows here, I haven't any experience with Word (and never really > liked it last time I tried it, years back). Nor I, but unfortunately for some folks it seems to be the only editor they know. :-( I do occasionally get word documents and need a way to view/print them w/o using Windows. -- Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:59:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7125B14ED6 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA76954; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Bob Willcox Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990510185637.A12837@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? > > > > Mail me a Word document. I'm not sure, I'll have to try it. I don't do > > any Windows here, I haven't any experience with Word (and never really > > liked it last time I tried it, years back). > > Nor I, but unfortunately for some folks it seems to be the only editor > they know. :-( > > I do occasionally get word documents and need a way to view/print them > w/o using Windows. OK. *Somebody*, please mail me a Word document, then we'll know. Make it a reasonably complicated one, but not a dictionary, please. If I don't get a reply, then I'll figure there's no interest. I sure don't care. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:59:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA7F151B3 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA63707; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Bob Willcox Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:28:44PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > > > scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > > > this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > > > > When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. > > Wow! By November of 2000 I may be retired. :-) > > > > > Not this year, pal. The lady was clear on that. You could find better > > places to stick your cash, for the moment. To tell you the truth, I > > just bought Word Perfect (for Linux) and it's *way* smaller, only about > > 100 megs installed (including help files), and a good deal. I could > > wish it was FreeBSD-native, but I haven't been able to tell, yet, any > > difference. > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? Mail me a Word document. I'm not sure, I'll have to try it. I don't do any Windows here, I haven't any experience with Word (and never really liked it last time I tried it, years back). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 17:59:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11E415C6B for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA76098; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:59:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Brian Handy Cc: Alex Zepeda , Mike Smith , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Brian Handy wrote: > >> The dates keep moving, the explanations remain non-existent. The > >> customers who invested in this worthy cause might merit some small > >> explanation why delivery date has thus far moved ahead two years. > > > >Perhaps you should demand your money back? > > Maybe I should, but I won't. Open source is great, but I also support > commercial entities making a buck off me as well, there's nothing wrong > with that. I'm just saying it's easier to stay in the game when you have > the warm fuzzies that someone's really working on the problem and forward > progress is being made. That's a good idea. Folks who walk around bad-mouthing anything that is sold for money, well, that's a blind prejudice, and about as accurate as most blind prejudices. FWIW, there is NOT a good WYSIWYG free wp. The only ones out there use TeX as a backdrop, which means they are extremely dependent on initial document style, and awfully hard to modify in midstream. They are good tools, but there is NOT one single free wp in the useability range of applixware or WordPerfect. I wish there was, but wishing won't make it so, and bad mouthing anything commercial won't either. Mike's right about Applixware being huge, that's one strong reason I went with WordPerfect, because applixware (the Linux version) nearly eats up a disk all by itself it's so huge. Regardless, if it's a question of porting only, I don't care if it's a 10 million line job, a year is a long time for porting only, especially to a platform as easy to port to as FreeBSD. Unless the company involved is just not willing to give enough hours a week to it. With FreeBSD's demonstrated utter lack of concern over maintaining a stable API for developers, it's not hard to see why folks wouldn't be anxious to sell to us. > > > > Brian > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18: 2:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mom.hooked.net (mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A7C14BEC for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from fish.hooked.net (garbanzo@fish.hooked.net [206.80.6.48]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08110; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:22:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Chuck Robey Cc: Brian Handy , Mike Smith , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > That's a good idea. Folks who walk around bad-mouthing anything that is > sold for money, well, that's a blind prejudice, and about as accurate as > most blind prejudices. Oh please, I wasn't badmouthing the comercial products by virtue that one has to pay for them. But quite frankly the major comercial offerings suck and/or are available only for LInux. > FWIW, there is NOT a good WYSIWYG free wp. The only ones out there use > TeX as a backdrop, which means they are extremely dependent on initial > document style, and awfully hard to modify in midstream. They are good > tools, but there is NOT one single free wp in the useability range of > applixware or WordPerfect. Yeah, look what the comercial companies have developed. Navigator is the biggest piece of crap on FreeBSD, and StarOffice makes Applix look petite. > I wish there was, but wishing won't make it so, and bad mouthing > anything commercial won't either. Yes, and bending over and saying, oh another year is just fine doesn't do much for you. As for Applix, they've sure reaped a decent amount of money and shoved it god knows where. Or look at Oracle. > Unless the company involved is just not willing to give enough hours a > week to it. With FreeBSD's demonstrated utter lack of concern over > maintaining a stable API for developers, it's not hard to see why folks > wouldn't be anxious to sell to us. What?! Since when? Look at how stable FreeBSD has remained. Occasionally a recompile or somesuch to adjust to different sized structures, as opposed to the rabid source tweaking required regularly by the libc5 to libc6 to libc6.1 changes necesitated by Linux's "progressive attitude". - alex You better believe that marijuana can cause castration. Just suppose your girlfriend gets the munchies! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18: 3:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mom.hooked.net (mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3C115DEE for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from fish.hooked.net (garbanzo@fish.hooked.net [206.80.6.48]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27501; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Brian Handy Cc: Mike Smith , Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Brian Handy wrote: > >> The dates keep moving, the explanations remain non-existent. The > >> customers who invested in this worthy cause might merit some small > >> explanation why delivery date has thus far moved ahead two years. > > > >Perhaps you should demand your money back? > > Maybe I should, but I won't. Open source is great, but I also support > commercial entities making a buck off me as well, there's nothing wrong > with that. I'm just saying it's easier to stay in the game when you have > the warm fuzzies that someone's really working on the problem and forward > progress is being made. Comercial entites are great too. If it weren't for comercial support of FreeBSD, I'm sure that FreeBSD would still be very unknown to most of the Linux community. But look where your donation has gotten you. - alex You better believe that marijuana can cause castration. Just suppose your girlfriend gets the munchies! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18: 3:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jumping-spider.aracnet.com (jumping-spider.aracnet.com [205.159.88.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45AE14C87 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@aracnet.com) Received: from shell2.aracnet.com (IDENT:1728@shell2.aracnet.com [205.159.88.20]) by jumping-spider.aracnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA32667; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:10:19 -0700 Received: from localhost by shell2.aracnet.com (8.8.7) id RAA00378; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:10:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell2.aracnet.com: beattie owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie To: Bob Willcox Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:28:44PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Does anybody know the status of this? www.cdrom.com is saying it is > > > scheduled for mid-November and taking pre-orders. Seems its been in > > > this state for quite awhile. What year are they refering to? > > > > When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. > > Wow! By November of 2000 I may be retired. :-) > > > > > Not this year, pal. The lady was clear on that. You could find better > > places to stick your cash, for the moment. To tell you the truth, I > > just bought Word Perfect (for Linux) and it's *way* smaller, only about > > 100 megs installed (including help files), and a good deal. I could > > wish it was FreeBSD-native, but I haven't been able to tell, yet, any > > difference. > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? > Don't know about Word Perfect but StarOffice does. I had been holding of buying StarOffice waiting to see what Applix did but now I can see no sense in waiting. > Bob > > -- > Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no > bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is > Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever > been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Beattie | The only problem with beattie@aracnet.com | winning the rat race ... www.aracnet.com/~beattie | in the end you're still a rat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:10:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13ACE15029 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA15780 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:50:19 -0500 Message-ID: <00a501be9b41$864263f0$500a0a0a@stan166> From: "Stan Shkolny" To: Subject: Which O/S routines are subject to change? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:02:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, When I'm browsing FreeBSD kernel headers I see a lot of wonderful functions which I would like to use in my device driver. How can I use those functions and be sure that my driver will remain functional in the next O/S versions? Which of them are "public:" and which "private:" ? Thank you, Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:12:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF721552F for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:12:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA35363; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Brian Handy , Mike Smith , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > That's a good idea. Folks who walk around bad-mouthing anything that is > > sold for money, well, that's a blind prejudice, and about as accurate as > > most blind prejudices. > > Oh please, I wasn't badmouthing the comercial products by virtue that one > has to pay for them. But quite frankly the major comercial offerings suck > and/or are available only for LInux. This has gone on long enough, I won't reply. Take that as you wish, this is boring folks. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:13:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FBD1593C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00326; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:43:04 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:43:04 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Bob Willcox Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Cc: hackers list Cc: hackers list , Chuck Robey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-May-99 Bob Willcox wrote: > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? AFAIK it does Word 95 docs 'OK' and doesn't touch Word 97.. SO5 does both very well.. but WP kicks SO's ass for stability :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:19:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mom.hooked.net (mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FC615912 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from fish.hooked.net (garbanzo@fish.hooked.net [206.80.6.48]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00902; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda Reply-To: Alex Zepeda To: Chuck Robey Cc: Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > OK. *Somebody*, please mail me a Word document, then we'll know. Make > it a reasonably complicated one, but not a dictionary, please. If I > don't get a reply, then I'll figure there's no interest. I sure don't > care. Since it's nearly impossible for me to send email directly from here, check this out: http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/~alex/es1371.doc SO5 choked on converting this, copy 'n' pasting the images from Word to PaintShop Pro really killed the quality. If WP can handle it, I'd be impressed. It should be 400k. - alex You better believe that marijuana can cause castration. Just suppose your girlfriend gets the munchies! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:42:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.albury.net.au (marvin.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FEB150A4 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josh2@marvin.albury.net.au) Received: (from josh2@localhost) by marvin.albury.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA02784 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:43:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from josh2) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:43:47 +1000 (EST) From: Josh2 Lists To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. Should this work on 3.1-release (new install)? cc -aout an.c -o an And if so why do I get this when I have installed the 2.2 compat stuff from the distributions on disk 1 via the sysinstall utility? ld: crt0.o: No such file or directory Josh ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Josh2 Lists Date: 11-May-99 Time: 11:41:44 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 18:51:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [207.170.114.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF8A15264 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:51:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.pmr.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA20513; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:51:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:51:09 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990510205109.A20474@luke.pmr.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Zepeda on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:19:21PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I went ahead and installed WordPerfect on my system and tried a couple of Word documents I had laying around (nothing particularly complex) and they did, indeed, seem to work fine. Of course, complex documents may be an altogether different story. Bob On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 06:19:21PM -0700, Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > OK. *Somebody*, please mail me a Word document, then we'll know. Make > > it a reasonably complicated one, but not a dictionary, please. If I > > don't get a reply, then I'll figure there's no interest. I sure don't > > care. > > Since it's nearly impossible for me to send email directly from here, > check this out: > > http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/~alex/es1371.doc > > SO5 choked on converting this, copy 'n' pasting the images from Word to > PaintShop Pro really killed the quality. If WP can handle it, I'd be > impressed. It should be 400k. > > - alex > > You better believe that marijuana can cause castration. Just suppose your > girlfriend gets the munchies! > -- Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19: 0:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BA515D1E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20034; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09245; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990510185637.A12837@luke.pmr.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Bob Willcox Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Cc: hackers list Cc: hackers list , Chuck Robey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-May-99 Bob Willcox wrote: > Nor I, but unfortunately for some folks it seems to be the only editor > they know. :-( > > I do occasionally get word documents and need a way to view/print them > w/o using Windows. Some Word97 files I can read in WordPerfect and some others I can't, but for the ones I can't I just use catdoc from the ports collection (/usr/ports/textproc/catdoc). Granted I'm not viewing stuff with lots of heavy tables and formatting, but WordPerfect and catdoc work for me. > -- > Bob Willcox The man who follows the crowd will usually get no > bob@luke.pmr.com further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is > Austin, TX likely to find himself in places no one has ever > been. -- Alan Ashley-Pitt --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19: 3:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7841555F for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA61804; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Bob Willcox Cc: Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990510205109.A20474@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > I went ahead and installed WordPerfect on my system and tried a couple > of Word documents I had laying around (nothing particularly complex) and > they did, indeed, seem to work fine. Of course, complex documents may > be an altogether different story. Alex sent me a pointer to one, 400K in size, and it caused WP to segfault. Maybe there's some problem with graphics (I think there were some embedded graphics in it). I don't care too much, I used to use WP a lot at a company I used to work for, and I liked it a *great* deal more than I ever liked Word. The interface feels nice enough. I'll use it any time I don't use groff directly. I'm starting to investigate xsl (although I haven't time enough for it yet). It begins to look *extremely* promising. If you know much about formatting languages like troff or TeX, you might want to see xlm, DOM and xsl. Take a look at the IBM web site. Heck, that's a good excuse to go take a look at one of the most dynamic programming web sites out there. Take a look at the IBM web site, most especially if you like java or xml or parsers, or .... IBM is diving into open source, feet first! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19: 6:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DE7158D2 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20816; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26791; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Josh2 Lists Subject: RE: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've seen this same problem. The compat22 distribution only includes aout libs, it doesn't include support for compiling aout applications, you have to make the world or run make in some other directory to generate the aout linking "glue". Might it be possible to include this stuff in compat22 or some other compat patckage? (compataout?) On 11-May-99 Josh2 Lists wrote: > > Hi. > Should this work on 3.1-release (new install)? > cc -aout an.c -o an > > And if so why do I get this when I have installed the > 2.2 compat stuff from the distributions on disk 1 > via the sysinstall utility? > > ld: crt0.o: No such file or directory > > Josh > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Josh2 Lists > Date: 11-May-99 > Time: 11:41:44 > > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:25:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DA114BD5 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:25:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA73559; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:25:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905110225.TAA73559@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Stan Shkolny" Cc: Subject: Re: Which O/S routines are subject to change? References: <00a501be9b41$864263f0$500a0a0a@stan166> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi All, : :When I'm browsing FreeBSD kernel headers I see a lot of wonderful functions :which I would like to use in my device driver. How can I use those functions :and be sure that my driver will remain functional in the next O/S versions? :Which of them are "public:" and which "private:" ? : :Thank you, :Stan Any of them can change, but I excpect it to settle down in a year or two. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:27:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E409414E97 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:27:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15880; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:27:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:27:25 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Stan Shkolny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which O/S routines are subject to change? In-Reply-To: <199905110225.TAA73559@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : > :When I'm browsing FreeBSD kernel headers I see a lot of wonderful functions > :which I would like to use in my device driver. How can I use those functions > :and be sure that my driver will remain functional in the next O/S versions? > :Which of them are "public:" and which "private:" ? > : > :Thank you, > :Stan > > Any of them can change, but I excpect it to settle down in a year or two. > It sounds like we might consider a DDI/DKI set of definitions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:31:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC82514BD5 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA73624; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905110231.TAA73624@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Stan Shkolny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which O/S routines are subject to change? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Any of them can change, but I excpect it to settle down in a year or two. :> : :It sounds like we might consider a DDI/DKI set of definitions. Yes, but not until things settle down in a year or two. Until then, trying to impose a toolkit DDI on the kernel will only make everyone's life harder. The VFS system is almost certainly going to be shredded this year and I'm sure it is going to take a year to cleanup and refine newbus & dma handling. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:31:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E427315575 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA07671; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:53:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:53:21 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Chuck Robey Cc: Bob Willcox , Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > I went ahead and installed WordPerfect on my system and tried a couple > > of Word documents I had laying around (nothing particularly complex) and > > they did, indeed, seem to work fine. Of course, complex documents may > > be an altogether different story. > > Alex sent me a pointer to one, 400K in size, and it caused WP to > segfault. Maybe there's some problem with graphics (I think there were > some embedded graphics in it). > > I don't care too much, I used to use WP a lot at a company I used to > work for, and I liked it a *great* deal more than I ever liked Word. > The interface feels nice enough. I'll use it any time I don't use groff > directly. > > I'm starting to investigate xsl (although I haven't time enough for it > yet). It begins to look *extremely* promising. If you know much about > formatting languages like troff or TeX, you might want to see xlm, DOM > and xsl. Take a look at the IBM web site. > > Heck, that's a good excuse to go take a look at one of the most dynamic > programming web sites out there. Take a look at the IBM web site, most > especially if you like java or xml or parsers, or .... IBM is diving > into open source, feet first! The document convertion stuff probably stinks, but has anyone tried KOffice? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:33:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E9915D6C for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA73664; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:33:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:33:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905110233.TAA73664@apollo.backplane.com> To: Warner Losh , Alan Cox , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Cc: Thomas David Rivers , jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date References: <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> <199905102225.QAA05610@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :In message <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> Thomas David Rivers writes: :: (I'm mostly interested in `kern/11469' - a fix to the 1542 driver.) : :I'll make sure that gets in or is rejected explicitly. : :Warner My main interest are the NFS/TCP fixes, which Alan now has a -stable patch for. But it's already the tenth so if it goes in now the source will then have to be reviewed by more gurus ( post-commit ). -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:38:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F70C1554E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15956; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:38:26 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:38:26 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Stan Shkolny , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which O/S routines are subject to change? In-Reply-To: <199905110231.TAA73624@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> Any of them can change, but I excpect it to settle down in a year or two. > :> > : > :It sounds like we might consider a DDI/DKI set of definitions. > > Yes, but not until things settle down in a year or two. Until > then, trying to impose a toolkit DDI on the kernel will only make > everyone's life harder. The VFS system is almost certainly going to > be shredded this year and I'm sure it is going to take a year to cleanup > and refine newbus & dma handling. > Oh, absolutely, but you can also cut it a couple of different ways. You can define things that really are unlikely to change (like memset or copyin) as being 'STANDARD' interfaces and define interfaces that probably won't change (e.g. a device's open routine) as being 'STABLE' and other mechanisms as different.... A pretty useful classification scheme is in the section 5 'attributes' man page in Solaris, e.g.: Release Level Stability for Incompatible Level Changes Other Comments .... Stable Major (x.0) Incompatibilities are exceptional. Evolving Minor (x.y) Migration advice might accompany an incompa- tibility. .... Stable A Stable interface is a mature interface under Sun's control. Sun will try to avoid non- upwards-compatible changes to these interfaces, especially in minor or micro releases. If support of a Stable interface must be discon- tinued, Sun will attempt to provide notification and the stability level changes to Obsolete. Evolving An Evolving interface may eventually become Standard or Stable but is still in transition. ... It gets even more complex if you actually can dig up Sun's internal classification levels of interfaces (where terms like 'Contract Private' and 'Uncommitted' get bandied about....)... Sorry- this gets offtopic from the original question... It'd be a good thing to have though...... ; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:46:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2B51556B for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from localhost (cyouse@localhost) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01219; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:43:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.cybersites.com: cyouse owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Youse To: "Justin C. Walker" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: <199905110039.RAA00634@rhapture.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You would benifit greatly by purchaing "Unix Netowrk Programming Vol 1" > > by Stevens. > Agreed; V. 2 is an excellent "code walkthrough" of the BSD 4.3 > implementation. Boy do I hate to be picky: V.2 is a walkthrough of 4.4BSD-Lite. I agree though, the book rocks. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 19:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7E615994 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alc@cs.rice.edu) Received: from nonpc.cs.rice.edu (nonpc.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.219]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA03635; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:47:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from alc@localhost) by nonpc.cs.rice.edu (8.9.2/8.7.3) id VAA88361; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:47:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:47:54 -0500 From: Alan Cox To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Warner Losh , Alan Cox , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, Thomas David Rivers , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date Message-ID: <19990510214754.A88343@nonpc.cs.rice.edu> References: <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> <199905102225.QAA05610@harmony.village.org> <199905110233.TAA73664@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905110233.TAA73664@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:33:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:33:28PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > My main interest are the NFS/TCP fixes, which Alan now has a -stable patch > for. But it's already the tenth so if it goes in now the source will > then have to be reviewed by more gurus ( post-commit ). > The NFS/TCP realignment patch was checked into -stable last Sat morning. Is there anything else? Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 20:12:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359011591E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00963; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199905110310.UAA00963@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chuck Robey Cc: Bob Willcox , Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 22:00:48 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:10:32 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, xls and xml are markup languages which means you need an "engine" to render -- they do solve very nicely the document construct , or grammar and syntax. It would be great to have a word processing system based upon XML, XSL and a low level api (DOM) to manipulate documents 8) Cheers > I'm starting to investigate xsl (although I haven't time enough for it > yet). It begins to look *extremely* promising. If you know much about > formatting languages like troff or TeX, you might want to see xlm, DOM > and xsl. Take a look at the IBM web site. > > Heck, that's a good excuse to go take a look at one of the most dynamic > programming web sites out there. Take a look at the IBM web site, most > especially if you like java or xml or parsers, or .... IBM is diving > into open source, feet first! > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Amancio Hasty hasty@star-gate.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 20:18:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-16.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28141591E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01958; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <199905110310.UAA00963@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Hi, > > xls and xml are markup languages which means you need an > "engine" to render -- they do solve very nicely the document > construct , or grammar and syntax. > > It would be great to have a word processing system based upon > XML, XSL and a low level api (DOM) to manipulate documents 8) You've seen KOffice, right? - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 20:24:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128BB1591E for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:24:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01122; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199905110323.UAA01122@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 20:17:25 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:23:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sorry . Isn't that a linux thingy ?? 8) Well, okay since I haven't seen KOffice and from my recollection is a collection of applications. What can you tell us about the underlying properties of koffice documents? Does use a standar markup language like XML and styling markup like XSL , does it use word style document format, etc...?? Tnks > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > xls and xml are markup languages which means you need an > > "engine" to render -- they do solve very nicely the document > > construct , or grammar and syntax. > > > > It would be great to have a word processing system based upon > > XML, XSL and a low level api (DOM) to manipulate documents 8) > > You've seen KOffice, right? > > - alex > -- Amancio Hasty hasty@star-gate.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 20:32:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A1714BF3 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA73934; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:32:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:32:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905110332.UAA73934@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alan Cox Cc: Warner Losh , Alan Cox , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, Thomas David Rivers , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2 Freeze date References: <199905101056.GAA08880@lakes.dignus.com> <199905102225.QAA05610@harmony.village.org> <199905110233.TAA73664@apollo.backplane.com> <19990510214754.A88343@nonpc.cs.rice.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:33:28PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: :> :> My main interest are the NFS/TCP fixes, which Alan now has a -stable patch :> for. But it's already the tenth so if it goes in now the source will :> then have to be reviewed by more gurus ( post-commit ). :> : :The NFS/TCP realignment patch was checked into -stable last Sat :morning. Is there anything else? : :Alan I think that's all the items on my hotlist. Except ( unrelated to Alan ) I still do not like the fact that a 'flags 0x40' must be specified for the ppc to disable the extra probes that cause people's machines to crash. Even though the flag is set in GENERIC, there will be a lot of people upgrading who have their own custom kernels and will almost certainly forget to add the flag. I would much prefer if the *default* were to disable the extra probes and the flag enabled them. I just don't see the point of intentionally destroying backwards compatibility ( especially when it could lockup someone's machine ) when it is so easy to simply reverse the sense of the flag. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 21:23: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-38.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDCD15BDE for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02392; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <199905110323.UAA01122@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > I am sorry . Isn't that a linux thingy ?? 8) Well most of KDE is. But hey, if I come across something that is Linux only, I try and commit a fix (as does the other "resident FreeBSD nut" Hans Petter Bieker). If you've got a post-egcs -CURRENT, KDE && KOffice should at least compile. > Well, okay since I haven't seen KOffice and from > my recollection is a collection of applications. Yes. And you can find more information about it at http://koffice.kde.org > What can you tell us about the underlying properties > of koffice documents? Does use a standar markup > language like XML and styling markup like XSL , > does it use word style document format, etc...?? It uses XML natively, but there are a few filters included. It's very much a work in progress. http://koffice.kde.org/faq/faq-5.html#ss5.3 (File format) http://koffice.kde.org/faq/faq-6.html (KWord in general) The only downside (besides the fact that it's not even in its alpha phase), is that it uses MICO, which means that it will take a few hours at least (on a single PII/450) to compile everything - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 21:52:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B23158CD for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01587; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199905110451.VAA01587@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 21:22:36 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:51:13 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thats fine . I will check back in about 6 months to a year once it passes the alpha stage . I use kde as my desktop and I like I very much -- it has some quirks however I can live with it. -- Amancio Hasty hasty@star-gate.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 23:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0330E158DC; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA16253; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:03:21 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905110403.GAA16253@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports To: tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (Seigo TANIMURA) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 06:03:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de, zinnia@jan.ne.jp, tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <19990511000457S.tanimura@sakuramail.com> from "Seigo TANIMURA" at May 11, 99 00:04:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1129 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi! > > After a week of struggle, I am pleased very much to announce > that Luigi's sound driver now has a midi interface and a sequencer! great! If i understand well, you are supporting the handling of MIDI commands through the sio port only -- so i wonder what are the changes to the audio driver(s) other than intercepting the device i/o calls and pass them to your driver. Second thing: i think (but i may be wrong) in the Voxware driver the name "sequencer" was used to identify the syntesizer (OLP3/4/whatever). What do you mean by "sequencer" instead, and should i perhaps change the name generated by /dev/sndstat to avoid confusion ? cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 23:34:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCAFC15033 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:34:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA45133; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:33:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199905110633.IAA45133@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "May 10, 1999 8: 3:44 pm" To: chuckr@picnic.mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:33:25 +0200 (CEST) Cc: bob@pmr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? > > > > > > Mail me a Word document. I'm not sure, I'll have to try it. I don't do > > > any Windows here, I haven't any experience with Word (and never really > > > liked it last time I tried it, years back). > > > > Nor I, but unfortunately for some folks it seems to be the only editor > > they know. :-( > > > > I do occasionally get word documents and need a way to view/print them > > w/o using Windows. > > OK. *Somebody*, please mail me a Word document, then we'll know. Make > it a reasonably complicated one, but not a dictionary, please. If I > don't get a reply, then I'll figure there's no interest. I sure don't > care. FWIW all the word docs I've thrown at it has worked just dandy, mind that they where pretty simple text only docs though. -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 23:38: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D3D514CAA for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:37:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 27137 invoked by uid 1000); 11 May 1999 06:38:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:38:35 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990511083835.H387@paert.tse-online.de> References: <19990510173605.B11750@luke.pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Beattie on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 05:10:20PM -0700 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 05:10:20PM -0700, Brian Beattie wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > When I asked them about 2 weeks ago, they said mid November. Of 2000. > > Wow! By November of 2000 I may be retired. :-) phhh. ... smells like typical MS behaviour ;) I have to state, that I just don't understand, why the h* the port is that time-consuming. Applixware is a native Unix application and not some kind of hefty win32-api dependend stuff. > > Maybe I'll take a look at Word Perfect. Does it do Word documents? hey, just for the case you guys don't know about it. Applixware 4.1.x and the current 4.4.1 for Linux runs perfectly under FreeBSD 2.2-stable, 3.1-stable and 4.0-current. The Word-Import-Filter in 4.4.1 is _much_ more word-compatible and much more stable than in previous releases. > Don't know about Word Perfect but StarOffice does. I had been holding of > buying StarOffice waiting to see what Applix did but now I can see no > sense in waiting. Hmmm. I relly dislike the StarOffice GUI and never in my life had real contact to WordPerfect. (AppleWorks -> Apple Writer 2e -> MS WORD 4 (crap compared to AW2e) -> MS WinWord 2 -> Tex/LaTex -> MS Office '95 [still using LaTex for complex tasks, of course]) -Andreas -- : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 10 23:51: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89EF8155DD for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 27170 invoked by uid 1000); 11 May 1999 06:51:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:51:45 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: hackers list Cc: Chuck Robey Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990511085145.I387@paert.tse-online.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:59:49PM -0400 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 07:59:49PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Brian Handy wrote: > That's a good idea. Folks who walk around bad-mouthing anything that is > sold for money, well, that's a blind prejudice, and about as accurate as > most blind prejudices. I have to second this. > tools, but there is NOT one single free wp in the useability range of > applixware or WordPerfect. I really would like to have something like Applixware native for FreeBSD. For now I would have _easily_ two companies at hand that would switch their desktops to FreeBSD for stability sake. > Mike's right about Applixware being huge, that's one strong reason I > went with WordPerfect, because applixware (the Linux version) nearly > eats up a disk all by itself it's so huge. My (default) Applixware installation eats 268 MBytes (including more than 35 MBytes of cliparts) of diskspace; considering that the IBM 10 GB EIDE-disks are ca. 150 Euro thats the equivalent value of ca. 4 Euro (less than 5 Bucks) of diskspace. Andreas -- : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 0: 7:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6DB155DD; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA73646; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Seigo TANIMURA Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de, zinnia@jan.ne.jp Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 00:04:57 +0900." <19990511000457S.tanimura@sakuramail.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700 Message-ID: <73643.926406478@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After a week of struggle, I am pleased very much to announce > that Luigi's sound driver now has a midi interface and a sequencer! Excellent! I'm very happy to hear this. Any idea when you guys will be able to support the on-board MIDI interfaces featured on many sound cards? Once that day comes, I'd say this code should go straight into -current! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 0:11:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0521158AA for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id JAA25539; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08543; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:11:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:11:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Lyndon.Nerenberg@MessagingDirect.COM Cc: cyouse@cybersites.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: <199905102103.PAA13125@rembrandt.esys.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm not sure what kind of improvement you would get by using AF_LOCAL, but I've seen well in excess of 40 mbyte/sec throughput on a 66Mhz 486dx2, using the loopback interface. I believe you would need RAID to actually feed sensible data into the interface at this speed (assuming the disk is the source of this data). - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 0:17:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-36.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BF6158AA for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03729; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Andreas Braukmann Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990511083835.H387@paert.tse-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > Hmmm. I relly dislike the StarOffice GUI and never in my life > had real contact to WordPerfect. (AppleWorks -> Apple Writer 2e > -> MS WORD 4 (crap compared to AW2e) -> MS WinWord 2 -> Tex/LaTex > -> MS Office '95 [still using LaTex for complex tasks, of course]) Bah, you missed out on the best word processor of all time WordPerfect 5.1 (Well, if you count something without an operating system, the IBM Selectric II...) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 0:32: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C2B159AA for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 00:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id JAA01448; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:31:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08616; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:31:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:31:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Brian Beattie Cc: Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Don't know about Word Perfect but StarOffice does. I had been holding of > buying StarOffice waiting to see what Applix did but now I can see no > sense in waiting. This is very true. We usually have to work with word, excel, powerpoint, and so on and so forth around here. StarOffice handles these perfectly. I am by no means going to pay for anything two years in advance. - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 1:29:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA18615C3A for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:29:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22730; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brian Handy Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 16:39:20 MDT." Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: <22687.926411377@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is getting out of hand. It's pretty clear none of us understand > what's up behind the scenes on this, because I'd swear the thing could > have been written from scratch in less time than this port is going to > take. I can't really give you specifics, but let's just say that we're currently in the middle of trying to give the responsibility for porting this thing back to the folks who should have had it to begin with. :-) We do not and never did have the time to do this port ourselves and I'm kind of sad that the product went up on the web pages before anyone had the chance to prove that fact empirically. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 1:31:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3891C15940 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27829; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brian Handy Cc: Mike Smith , Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 May 1999 17:20:12 MDT." Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:31:12 -0700 Message-ID: <27826.926411472@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Fair enough. Can you throw us some kind of a bone as to why the delivery > date keeps leaping ahead, a year at a time? When I put my deposit down, > it was due in November of 1998. A cursory search through mail shows a Deposit? Didn't you simply register your card with us for billing when it actually ships? If you've actually been *charged* somehow then you're due a refund, I believe. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 1:42: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4611315940; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:41:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id LAA21131; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:41:10 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:41:10 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: David Greenman , Bruce Evans Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: CY_PCI_FASTINTR (Was: Re: Cyclom-Y driver for FreeBSD - help!!!) Message-ID: <19990511114110.A13954@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: David Greenman , Bruce Evans , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19980623163735.A3881@ucb.crimea.ua> <199806232329.QAA22367@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199806232329.QAA22367@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 04:29:46PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 04:29:46PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > A couple of things: First, I'm not the person maintaining the driver in > FreeBSD. All that I did was write the PCI front end to an existing driver. > Bruce Evans is the maintainer of the Cyclades-Y driver, so > please talk to him about problems with it. Second, the issue with the lossage > with the PCI card is due to interrupt latency in the FreeBSD kernel and I > don't think this is something that will be easily fixed. The problem is > avoided with ISA due to Bruce's "fast" interrupt hacks, but unfortunately > this doesn't work with shared interrupts. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project I saw the Bruce's commit (cy_pci.c,v 1.10 1999/01/15 10:00:12 bde). Am I understand this right: if I configure my PCI card to an exclusive interrupt, and then turn on CY_PCI_FASTINTR, I'll get rid of ``silo overflows'' on it. Just out of curiosity. What is the ``interrupt latency in the FreeBSD kernel'' problem and what are the ``Bruce's "fast" interrupt hacks''? TIA, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 1:51:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2790C14D29 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 01:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 26200 invoked by uid 1001); 11 May 1999 08:51:42 +0000 (GMT) To: ru@ucb.crimea.ua Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CY_PCI_FASTINTR (Was: Re: Cyclom-Y driver for FreeBSD - help!!!) From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 11:41:10 +0300" References: <19990511114110.A13954@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:51:42 +0200 Message-ID: <26198.926412702@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just out of curiosity. > What is the ``interrupt latency in the FreeBSD kernel'' problem > and what are the ``Bruce's "fast" interrupt hacks''? Poul-Henning Kamp made some interesting interrupt latency measurements for the FreeBSD kernel. See http://www.freebsd.org/~phk/interruptlatency.ps.gz Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 2:11:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6466C14F9E for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 02:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05912 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:10:52 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16066 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:11:29 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA19862; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:11:29 +0800 Message-Id: <199905110911.RAA19862@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:11:28 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG With the release of q3test for windows and the latest Linux release, it does seem to be getting hammered. It hit the 5000 user limit when I looked at it. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 2:21: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCE814F77; Tue, 11 May 1999 02:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02979; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:20:17 +1000 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:20:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199905110920.TAA02979@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@freebsd.org, dg@freebsd.org, ru@ucb.crimea.ua Subject: Re: CY_PCI_FASTINTR (Was: Re: Cyclom-Y driver for FreeBSD - help!!!) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Am I understand this right: if I configure my PCI card to an >exclusive interrupt, and then turn on CY_PCI_FASTINTR, I'll get >rid of ``silo overflows'' on it. Except in -current, where CY_PCI_FASTINTR is broken (it has no effect). >Just out of curiosity. >What is the ``interrupt latency in the FreeBSD kernel'' problem >and what are the ``Bruce's "fast" interrupt hacks''? The problem is that some mouldy old drivers and subsystems disable interrupts for too long (e.g. 2-5msec for programming keyboard LEDs; this breaks unbuffered serial input at speeds larger than 200-500 bps, and it breaks the Cyclades' 12-character fifos at speeds larger than 600-2400 bps). The "fast" interrupt hacks consist of ignoring the normal interrupt masking system so that drivers using "fast" interrupts are not affected by the problem unless there are enough of them (or enough activity on them) to create their own latency problems. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 2:33:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56B714DE5 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 02:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01965; Tue, 11 May 1999 02:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905110929.CAA01965@implode.root.com> To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 17:11:28 +0800." <199905110911.RAA19862@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 02:29:05 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >With the release of q3test for windows and the latest Linux release, it does >seem to be getting hammered. It hit the 5000 user limit when I looked at it. This: http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdromusers.html ...and the related link: http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html ...pretty much tell the story. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 4: 5:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B4414CAA; Tue, 11 May 1999 04:04:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: by gvr.gvr.org (Postfix, from userid 657) id 068625AF0; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19990510193939.A18900@gvr.org> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:39:39 +0200 From: Guido van Rooij To: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 11:34:48AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I dont realy care ;-) -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 5:26:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6D91590E for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 05:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA76335 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 05:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Any FreeBSD hackers want to staff the USENIX terminal room? Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 05:26:45 -0700 Message-ID: <76331.926425605@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As most of you attending USENIX (http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix99) this year in Monterey, CA already know, the "terminal room", a cluster of 40 networked PCs for public use, will be running FreeBSD this year. A total of 12 volunteers is needed to staff this terminal room and I think about 7 of those positions are already filled, so we need just a few more people to sort of be around the terminal room during certain fixed hours and help people in the event of trouble or questions. You also meet some the strangest people in the USENIX terminal room, so it's never really boring. :) The terminal room will open Monday morning and the hours are 7am - 2am except during reception time and Friday, on which day the terminal room closes at 2pm. Volunteers do a 10 hours of terminal duty (not at one time) in exchange for free registration for the tech sessions. To sign up for 10 hours of FreeBSD slavery in exchange for a free conference registration, please see: http://www.usenix.org/termroom/signup Thanks! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 8: 5:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6BE15A04 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA24490 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:54:06 -0500 Message-ID: <00e001be9bbf$c8961390$500a0a0a@stan166> From: "Stan Shkolny" To: Subject: vmapbuf (was:Which O/S routines are subject to change?) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:06:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I see that I need to ask a more precise question. My character device driver receives a pointer to a user data buffer in the user's address space. I need to DMA those data. For this, I need to bring the pages into memory and lock them before initiating the DMA. My book tells about physio(). However, I found it unconvenient for me. One reason is that its functionality doesn't fit well into my driver's architecture. Another reason is that it calls the vmapbuf() to bring the data buffer into memory. vmapbuf(), in turn, maps the buffer into the kernel address space. I don't want to do this, since I have no need for the data buffer in the kernel space since the only thing that touches it is the DMA engine. In other words, I want to write my own routine. In general, physio() looks like this: if useracc() vmapbuf() *strategy() vunmapbuf() endif And vmapbuf() like this: vm_fault_quick() vm_page_hold() pmap_kenter() // maps the memory into the kernel space And I want to write something like this in my driver: if useracc() vm_fault_quick() vm_page_hold() endif So, is this likely for the above 3 functions to change or disappear in the next versions? Can they be considered "stable"? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 8:34:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from search.sparks.net (search.sparks.net [208.5.188.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D43415C91 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:34:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmiller@search.sparks.net) Received: by search.sparks.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 606EE230; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by search.sparks.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F012218; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: David Miller Reply-To: David Miller To: Dom Mitchell Cc: Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , justin@apple.com, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Esry Don-FDE005 , Ollivier Robert , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Volume managers (was: Separate boot partition?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Dom Mitchell wrote: > On 8 April 1999, Greg Lehey proclaimed: > > I can't see why not, since it's possible now. What we still need to > > do is find a way to extend a file system, but that's a ufs issue > > (which has a solution), not a volume manager issue. > > What about shrinking an fs? Is that feasible? Possible? Well, you can see how backlogged I am from dredging a month old thread up, but.... Is there currently a mechanism for increasing the size of an ffs filesytem? Specific application: I'm writing a video playback system. Storing lots of big mpeg2 files on a RAID system which will let me add a disk and add it to the array. Now I want to grow the fs so I don't end up with N little file systems instead of one big one. Thanks:) --- David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 9:51: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCDE15A58 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id JAA20152; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199905111643.JAA20152@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: bwithrow@nortelnetworks.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD: local overrides on NIS maps? Cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM In-Reply-To: <199905101741.NAA07716@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:41:54 -0400 >From: Robert Withrow >I need to be able to locally (or on an OS basis) override mount options >in AMD maps, but I've been unsuccessful. >Assume I have a amd.conf that reads, in part: > [ /foo/home ] > map_name = foo_home >and a NIS map (foo_home) that contains exactly: > bwithrow -type:=nfs;rfs:=/home/bwithrow; rhost:=pizzahut >I want to restrict NFS to be version 2 and UDP for certain hosts >(say freebsd ones ;-) *without* modifying the map, because that >may is centrally maintained and I don't want system/os specific >things in it. I might want to modify other things (like rsize >and wsize) on a specific machine basis, and that *clearly* shouldn't >be in the map. >As far as I can tell, nothing I put in amd.conf will affect the mount >options in this map. (And before suggesting doing that, please try >it out on a system to be sure it works!) >Any suggestions on how I can override mount options locally? Well, here's what I've been doing to deal with a similar problem. First, I inherited a fair amount of NFS & amd stuff when I got here. Part of that was the use of per-host files for the amd maps. Since my background is more Sun-oriented, it didn't take too long for my frustration with the inability of most of the boxes on the net to know of my home directory's existence to overcome my laziness. So I implemented a set of NIS maps, along with an "amd.master" map. (That's why 3.x has the stuff about amd_map_program in the rc.conf* files.) And when we started putting 3.x machines on the Net, things were getting unpleasant. One of the maps I use is called (for lack of a better name) "amd.n", and looks like: # # net.map: # /defaults rhost:=${key} * host!=${key};os==freebsd3;type:=host;fs:=${autodir}/${rhost}/root;opts:=vers=2,proto=udp,nosuid,grpid,soft,intr \ host!=${key};os!=freebsd3;type:=host;fs:=${autodir}/${rhost}/root;opts:=nfsv2,noconn,nosuid,grpid,soft,intr \ host==${key};type:=link;fs:=/ (The main NFS server on our net is (still) running 2.2.6-R, at this point. I'll need to twek the amd maps somewhat when it comes time to upgrade the OS on that machine.) Also, I recall poking around (back when I was working on the construction of that thing) trying to figure out a way to cause the system to tell me what the mount options for a given mount really were. Unfortunately, I was unable to find a place where that information was stashed -- certainly from user-land. :-( But it *would* be of use to be able to run a goofy little program that would provide a definitive answer to the question "What mount options really *are* in use for such-and-such a mount?" If I could find where the information is, I'd even be willing to cobble such a beastie up (& contribute it, if anyone would have it). One of the other things I inherited was the use of /usr/local as an NFS-mounted network-wide FS. However, some folks wanted their own /usr/local; an example of coping with that is: cvs[1]% grep amd /etc/rc.conf.local amd_enable="YES" amd_flags="-nr -k i396 -l syslog -x all" amd_map_program="ypcat -k amd.master | sed -e 's#/usr/local#/usr/local.shrimp#'" (The amd.master map has an entry "/usr/local amd.usr-local" in it.) One of the things that's on my plate is to have a net-visible place for things that resemble /usr/local things (and that really should be kept in one place), while having /usr/local reside on each local machine (so that folks installing ports don't stomp all over each other). And I'd like to integrate the SPARC/Solaris boxen a bit more into the local net, so I'll want to tweak the maps (such as the amd.n map, above) so that I can share as much stuff as possible (such as the "sudoers" list), while keeping executables and endian-specific data to OS and/or architecture-specific filesystems (and servers). But that's secondary to ensuring that my colleagues (some of whom are certainly better known in the FreeBSD community) don't need to spend their time doing sysadmin stuff; that's why I'm here. :-) Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 10: 5:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shrimp.baynetworks.com (ns4.BayNetworks.COM [192.32.253.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772F81590E for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@engeast.BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by shrimp.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09770; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27114; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA12068; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:05:00 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11440; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:04:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199905111704.NAA11440@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Wolfskill Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: Re: AMD: local overrides on NIS maps? In-Reply-To: Message from David Wolfskill of "Tue, 11 May 1999 09:43:54 PDT." <199905111643.JAA20152@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:04:48 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for the reply. dhw@whistle.com said: :- So I implemented a set of NIS maps, along with an "amd.master" map. Yes, I do that. This is a big sun site, so I have a perl script that takes the existing NIS automounter maps and converts them to AMD maps which also get stuck into NIS. To give you and idea: bash-2.01$ ypcat amd.master | wc 175 322 4627 bash-2.01$ ypcat amd_bne_home | wc 1350 2868 67877 And that is just the beginning. Because of this I can't use things like your amd.n because I would have to have these selectors on each mountpoint, of which there are thousands. I could, I suppose, have the /defaults have the selectors and enable the appropriate switch in AMD, but that doesn't feel right. It seems like one should be able to override mount options locally... :- One of the things that's on my plate is to have a net-visible place :- for things that resemble /usr/local things (and that really should be :- kept in one place), while having /usr/local reside on each local :- machine (so that folks installing ports don't stomp all over each :- other). We call that /usr/global. -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 978 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 10:11:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spoon.beta.com (mcgovern.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.8.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359AA14D87 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Received: from spoon.beta.com (localhost.beta.com [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA12087 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:11:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Message-Id: <199905111711.NAA12087@spoon.beta.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE:Word procs (Was: Native Applixware for FreeBSD) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:11:44 -0400 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There a couple of good word processors out there. Word Perfect and Star Office 5.0 that the come to mind almost immediately. SO5.0 runs fine w/3.1 Linux emulation, and the license is free if its for "personal use". You just have to register it. And, it does word documents, too. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 10:23:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAAA015088 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07565; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:45:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:45:34 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: Lyndon.Nerenberg@MessagingDirect.COM, cyouse@cybersites.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sockets and SYSTEM V message queue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > > I'm not sure what kind of improvement you would get by using AF_LOCAL, > but I've seen well in excess of 40 mbyte/sec throughput on a 66Mhz 486dx2, > using the loopback interface. I believe you would need RAID to actually > feed sensible data into the interface at this speed (assuming the disk is > the source of this data). It's not :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 11:27:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA03C15003 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA79215; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905111827.LAA79215@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Greenman Cc: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? References: <199905110929.CAA01965@implode.root.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>With the release of q3test for windows and the latest Linux release, it does :>seem to be getting hammered. It hit the 5000 user limit when I looked at it. : : This: : :http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdromusers.html : : ...and the related link: : :http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html : : ...pretty much tell the story. : :-DG : :David Greenman :Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org :Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com Impressive. You know, if ftp.cdrom.com shifted over to using more HTTP you could sell add space and recoup some or all of the bandwidth costs. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 11:30:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB8915160 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA008351985; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:13:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Alex Zepeda Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 May 1999, Alex Zepeda wrote: > What?! Since when? Look at how stable FreeBSD has remained. > Occasionally a recompile or somesuch to adjust to different sized > structures, as opposed to the rabid source tweaking required regularly by > the libc5 to libc6 to libc6.1 changes necesitated by Linux's "progressive > attitude". How often do I see a author make a program and release _one_ FreeBSD binary and about 5 different binaries depending on what linux libc format you have. We're considerably more stable then that other OS. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 11:32: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBB415A81 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:32:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id OAA45094 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:44:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sigaction man page discrepencies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I noticed that in the sigaction man page it refers to the SA_RESTART flag for sa_flags in the text, but does not list that as a possible sa_flags value in the table right above it. Also, in the list of system calls which can be interrupted by a signal (and hence return EINTR), select() is not listed even though man select clearly lists EINTR as a possible return value for when "A signal was delivered before the time limit expired and before any of the selected events occurred" This is sigaction.2,v 1.19 1998/09/09 20:44:51 brian Exp If I'm not mistaken about this, I would be glad to submit the necessary patches. Thanks, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 11:50:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5111715159 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-e.isi.edu [128.9.160.240]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA24153 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905111850.LAA24153@boreas.isi.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers list Subject: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:50:04 -0700 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Bill Fumerola wrote: >How often do I see a author make a program and release _one_ FreeBSD >binary and about 5 different binaries depending on what linux libc format >you have. On a related note, I don't know if people use xanim, a movie viewer in the ports collection, but it's recently been upgraded to support dynamically loadable codecs. The problem is that none of the codecs are compiled for FreeBSD, although there are three Linux versions :-). To use them (really to use the program at all) you have to compile a Linux version of xanim and run under emulation (which works really well, thanks emulation guys!). Yes, I've tried using the Linux codecs on the FreeBSD binary. No dice. The author is perfectly willing to compile these codecs for FreeBSD, but because he's under NDA for the codecs he can only release compiled versions. He's only willing to compile versions for other OSes under Linux (i.e. compile the codecs for FreeBSD on his Linux machine) or on a donated machine. (His reasoning for this, which IMHO is rational, is on http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html ) Given that he's running Linux, is a "cross-compiling environment" any more complex than having him link against our libc? If not can someone give me an idea what he does need. I'm delighted to act as a contact point and a tester for the xanim author, but I just don't know enough about our link environment. Anyone want to enlighten me? (I tried this on multimedia, and got no response). - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNzh724b4eisfQ5rpAQGgSgP+NohAmLnZxdWK9D9lYGyjLoQ0vhUtMb1u LsgVyZ2YSgH0p2sqaNN5ZWIHY8+GeuSPh9Xedl7/PI+2YdPABAyWXOOl2kklinE+ fl3eRIyN2D36eyjlhjcATASTCMmpGYeGAZ81dijn8MJuA31rOjW5Ev5LJfwfp6cJ DE5oRjP2KNY= =Vl1i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 12:35: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331A114BEE for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02818; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:30:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199905111930.PAA02818@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: faber@ISI.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On a related note, I don't know if people use xanim, a movie viewer in > the ports collection, but it's recently been upgraded to support > dynamically loadable codecs. The problem is that none of the codecs > are compiled for FreeBSD, although there are three Linux versions :-). > To use them (really to use the program at all) you have to compile a > Linux version of xanim and run under emulation (which works really well, thanks > emulation guys!). > > Yes, I've tried using the Linux codecs on the FreeBSD binary. No dice. > > The author is perfectly willing to compile these codecs for FreeBSD, > but because he's under NDA for the codecs he can only release compiled > versions. He's only willing to compile versions for other OSes under > Linux (i.e. compile the codecs for FreeBSD on his Linux machine) or on > a donated machine. (His reasoning for this, which IMHO is rational, > is on http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html ) > > Given that he's running Linux, is a "cross-compiling environment" any > more complex than having him link against our libc? If not can > someone give me an idea what he does need. > > I'm delighted to act as a contact point and a tester for the xanim > author, but I just don't know enough about our link environment. > > Anyone want to enlighten me? (I tried this on multimedia, and got no > response). > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ted Faber faber@isi.edu > USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber > (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc > The only reason some of the linux codecs are not useable on FreeBSD is the reference of symbol __IO_stderr, it should be quite easy to convert them to references to &__sF[2]. -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 13: 5:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from auemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (auemail1.lucent.com [192.11.223.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485CE14BF6; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@babel.ho.lucent.com) Received: from babel.ho.lucent.com (h135-17-29-36.lucent.com [135.17.29.36]) by auemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23158; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:05:04 -0400 (EDT) From: pechter@lucent.com Received: by babel.ho.lucent.com (8.8.6/EMS-1.4 sun4) id QAA15116; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905112005.QAA15116@babel.ho.lucent.com> Subject: Efficient ENI-155P ATM on Alpha question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, Is there any support available for the ENI-155p-MF-S Efficient ATM card on Alpha processors? I've had no luck with the Linux driver on Alpha, although it seems ok on Intel. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill Pechter | Lucent Technologies | Voice 732-946-1106 | Fax 732-946-9146| | 943 Holmdel Road, Holmdel, NJ 07733-2103 | pechter@lucent.com | | This message brought to you by the letters PDP and the numbers 11 and 45 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 13:17: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r42.bfm.org [208.18.213.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFA314BFD for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA00296 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:16:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:16:12 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 10646 Message-ID: <19990511151612.B271@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, all, Just to keep you posted on the progress of the wctype routines: I put a program called 10646 on the web page. It will read the Unicode data file and produce a file which then can be fed to mklocale(1) to produce a Unicode locale. If renamed (or linked as) ees, it will produce a much smaller file, containing only the Extended European Subset of Unicode/ISO 10646. Because the ISO 10646 explicitly permits the use of subsets of the standard, the output of the 10646/ees utility contains comments at the beginning and the end of each block of characters. The comment is always either /* BeginBlockName */ or /* EndBlockName */, where "BlockName" is whatever Unicode calls that block (but with blanks cut out). The idea is to make it possible to run the file through sed and delete any unwanted blocks before inputting it to mklocale. I would appreciate comments and suggestions. The file is 10646.tar.gz, downloadable (or fetchable) from http://www.whizkidtech.net/i18n/wc/. You will also need the current version of the Unicode database, which is at ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData-Latest.txt - be warned, it is a fairly big file. If you want, you can do it all in one step: 10646 < UnicodeData-Latest.txt | mklocale > LC_CTYPE By the way (as I mention on the page), our utf2 program is misnamed. There is no such thing as UTF-2. There is UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16 - the number meaning the number of BITS in its encoding. There also is UCS-2 and UCS-4 - the number meaning the number of BYTES (or "octets"). We should really rename utf2 to utf8, because that's what it is. UTF-2 implies 2-bit encoding... Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 13:20:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458F815B0E; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24035; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:20:36 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA17848; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:20:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990511152025.C17399@winternet.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:20:25 -0500 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: Pat Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 11:34:48AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any plan for which evening of the conference this big dinner will happen? or will we all just be out each night getting crazy? ;-) Pat Lynch wrote: > > Well all, a few months ago, jkh handed the dinner plans off to me > for USENIX, so I've been doing a little research : I want people to look > at these URL's and let me know which of them sound the most interesting (I > lean towards the Mission Ranch in Carmel, but I'm not sure how far it is > from the Conference Center). > > Mission Ranch > http://www.digitallantern.com/monterey/r/5/rm549.html > > Tarpy's Roadhouse (a little expensive) > http://www.digitallantern.com/monterey/r/8/rm859.html > > Domenico's (this sounds very promising, inexpensive) > http://www.digitallantern.com/monterey/r/2/rm229.html > > Jardines De San Juan (possibly too far away, but inexpensive, and listed > as one of the "If you in Monterey only one time" places) > > and last but not least, inexpensive too, > > Rappa's > http://www.digitallantern.com/monterey/r/7/rm700.html > > please let me know what you guys think, I want this to be a good time for > all... > > -Pat > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- > Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY > > "Suicide is painless, switching to NT isn't."- > Unknown > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Nathan Ahlstrom FreeBSD: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ nrahlstr@winternet.com PGP Key ID: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 13:21:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from qmail.infoglobe.com (qmail.infoglobe.com [38.216.162.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C150C14DA9 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:21:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhermes@infoglobe.com) Received: (qmail 6831 invoked from network); 11 May 1999 20:21:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kenny) (38.216.162.189) by qmail.infoglobe.com with SMTP; 11 May 1999 20:21:18 -0000 Message-ID: <001801be9beb$9e66ce30$bda2d826@kenny.infoglobe.com> From: "John Hermes" To: Subject: Any need for dedicated PCI lnc driver? Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:19:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Well, as most of you no doubt know, the lnc ethernet driver is broken for PCNet/PCI chips again (it gives up when its memory is allocated above 16Mb, due to ISA limits in the driver). Would it be a good idea to strip a PCI-only lnc driver out of the ISA source, so that the ISA limits don't apply? I know this chip is not the best, but I inherited several Dual Pentium 100 workstations with integrated motherboard devices, and I need to keep them going since they are very stable and reliable SMP machines (Intergraph TD-30s). If no one wants to fix the ISA/PCI version, I would like to help extract a PCI-only version. Looking for opinions... John Hermes jhermes@infoglobe.com Infoglobe, Inc. (937) 225-9999 x317 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14: 0:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gal.netlab.sk (gal.netlab.sk [195.168.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A2C159FC; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:00:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tps@arc.netlab.sk) Received: from tps (nobody@qwyx.netlab.sk [195.168.0.2]) by gal.netlab.sk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA10193; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:00:12 +0200 (CEST) From: "Tomas TPS Ulej" To: , Subject: Redirection service Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:00:11 +0200 Message-ID: <003101be9bf1$42821ec0$6301a8c0@tps.tps.sk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I saw bounce package and also linux redir. More information about trasparent proxy I found at http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/IPfwd/ is there solution for FreeBSD? I need this: BOX A (195.168.11.1) -> REDIR (195.168.11.5) -> DEST 1 (195.168.12.1) -> DEST 2 (195.168.12.2) How can I set box 195.168.11.5 if I want got connection from BOX A to DEST 1 (masquaraded). Anyway, maybe is confused now :) BOX A -> REDIR -> DEST1 (a) (b) (c) on (b) is source IP (a), dest (b) I want rewrite packet to source (a), dest (c). If I try use bounce source will change to (b), dest to (c). I nedd source (a), dest (c) Any ideas? related webpage sources... ? Thanx in advice -- Tomas TPS Ulej System Administrator tps@internet.sk, tu36-ripe TELENOR Internet, NETLAB Network, Slovakia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14: 2:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 4049D15060; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: nrahlstr@winternet.com Cc: lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990511152025.C17399@winternet.com> (message from Nathan Ahlstrom on Tue, 11 May 1999 15:20:25 -0500) Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Message-Id: <19990511210215.4049D15060@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is there any plan for which evening of the conference this big dinner will > happen? or will we all just be out each night getting crazy? ;-) getting crazy every night works for me. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14: 4:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F62F15CC4 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id JAA22864; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:04:20 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA22314; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:04:01 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:04:01 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Ted Faber Cc: hackers list , jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Message-ID: <19990512090401.A22083@clear.co.nz> References: <199905111850.LAA24153@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905111850.LAA24153@boreas.isi.edu>; from Ted Faber on Tue, May 11, 1999 at 11:50:04AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 11, 1999 at 11:50:04AM -0700, Ted Faber wrote: > > [xanim modules for Linux only, author lacks a build env] > There are a couple of people with shell accounts on my machines, who use them to compile FreeBSD versions of things. I'm more than happy to provide more (although some of the machines are laboriously slow). They're all in New Zealand, which isn't as far from the west coast USA in network terms as you might think. It just occurs to me that a list of people prepared to offer compilation environments to people who insist in distributing binaries might be helpful. Here's a start, anyway: Joe Abley , 4.0-CURRENT, 2.2.8, 3.1 Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14:12:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46B215206 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-e.isi.edu [128.9.160.240]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA02652; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905112112.OAA02652@boreas.isi.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Joe Abley Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 09:04:01 +1200." <19990512090401.A22083@clear.co.nz> X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:12:39 -0700 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Joe Abley wrote: >On Tue, May 11, 1999 at 11:50:04AM -0700, Ted Faber wrote: >> >> [xanim modules for Linux only, author lacks a build env] >> > >There are a couple of people with shell accounts on my machines, who use >them to compile FreeBSD versions of things. I'm more than happy to provide >more (although some of the machines are laboriously slow). They're all >in New Zealand, which isn't as far from the west coast USA in network >terms as you might think. Thanks for the offer, Joe, and I think it's generally a good thing, but the xanim author won't go that route. See http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html . The short form is that the NDA he's under (or at least his interpretation thereof) won't let him upload to an account and compile there. > >It just occurs to me that a list of people prepared to offer compilation >environments to people who insist in distributing binaries might be helpful. I think that's a good idea. Is there some human at FreeBSD who would be willing to keep track of such a list and put it on a web page? Or is there too little cost/benefit? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNzidRob4eisfQ5rpAQH75wQAjTduOGo0ut1DBKoi08NKVRDtKMeoOG7l RTIuM63bSJdpGKqp9JZYoRDITdcEQuvACgPkar4HbgD9TNAtal8HU3JEZPFQS3rx 4sDVIa7/9EDJD9xVI4oGDq1LIm6VYi6weisxX/hiXKJTYnH9fkoyRfUN4QwC4c/p 9YAO1sjm21s= =BC0Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14:19:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1314D15A6C for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA067652285; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:04:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Ted Faber Cc: Joe Abley , hackers list Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) In-Reply-To: <199905112112.OAA02652@boreas.isi.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999, Ted Faber wrote: > >It just occurs to me that a list of people prepared to offer compilation > >environments to people who insist in distributing binaries might be helpful. > > I think that's a good idea. Is there some human at FreeBSD who would > be willing to keep track of such a list and put it on a web page? Or > is there too little cost/benefit? If there is enough people, I'll make a FAQ entry. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14:25:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF3E152AC; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA85435; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: nrahlstr@winternet.com, lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner In-Reply-To: <19990511210215.4049D15060@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As long as you don't insist on trying your ?Irish? (Not) accent out like last time... On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > Is there any plan for which evening of the conference this big dinner will > > happen? or will we all just be out each night getting crazy? ;-) > > > getting crazy every night works for me. > > jmb > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14:38: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E342F14C91 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id RAA48979 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:50:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: modex support (again) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm. I sent this message a few days ago and it has been silently ignored. Should I consider that an OK to extern the get_mode_param function in vga_isa.c? Or should I take that as a mass "go ahead, we're not going to commit the code anyway?" :( Thanks, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: modex support I had mentioned earlier this week that I was working on adding support for a few more "tweaked" VGA modes (320x240 was already in there), namely 320x400, 320x480, 360x200, 360x240, 360x400, and 360x480. Well, the good news is that it was *really* easy to simply include the code in vga_isa.c and all was dandy. However, I'de like to see this actually have a chance is h*ll of getting into FreeBSD so I figured that since it is fairly useless to most people (I've got some plans for it) that the best thing to do would be to make a KLD (like vesa.ko). That was coming along alright...that is until I realized that by not including the code in vga_isa.c, I no longer had access to the BIOS mode table (mode_map[] in vga_isa.c). Actually, I'de even be content to get at the get_mode_param() function which is also in vga_isa.c (both of which are currently static by the way). Would anyone have any objections to my extern'ing the get_mode_param() function? And if not, which header file should I put the function declaration in (if any)? Thanks (By the way, I'm having trouble understanding exactly how mmap works with the vga driver, if anyone could help shed some light on it I would greatly appriciate it, Soren? Kazutaka? Thanks!) ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 14:57:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 0617415C39; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: julian@whistle.com Cc: nrahlstr@winternet.com, lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Julian Elischer on Tue, 11 May 1999 14:22:33 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Message-Id: <19990511215657.0617415C39@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > As long as you don't insist on trying your ?Irish? (Not) accent out > like last time... no problem, mate, got a new one fer you this year. ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 15:18: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E7C15A2A for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id SAA29674; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:17:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199905112217.SAA29674@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: faber@ISI.EDU, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Thanks for the offer, Joe, and I think it's generally a good thing, > but the xanim author won't go that route. See > http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html . The short form is that the > NDA he's under (or at least his interpretation thereof) won't let him > upload to an account and compile there. Why not have someone with a Linux box build a Linux->FreeBSD cross compiler for the xanim author. I did this a couple of years ago for a Solaris->FreeBSD (elf) cross compiler without too much of a problem. Since we're now officially at ELF and using the GNU toolchain, it shouldn't be too difficult to do. And no, I'm not volunteering - my plate is full (and I don't have a Linux box any longer :-)). Hmm, if this were done, perhaps we could make it available for other Linux vendors to use in building native FreeBSD apps... Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 15:24:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFBF15903 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00477; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:17:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rjs) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:17:02 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199905112217.XAA00477@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: jhermes@infoglobe.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <001801be9beb$9e66ce30$bda2d826@kenny.infoglobe.com> (jhermes@infoglobe.com) Subject: Re: Any need for dedicated PCI lnc driver? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Well, as most of you no doubt know, the lnc ethernet driver is broken >for PCNet/PCI chips again (it gives up when its memory is allocated >above 16Mb, due to ISA limits in the driver). Yes. It still works fine in 2.2.8 though :-) >Would it be a good idea to strip a PCI-only lnc driver out of >the ISA source, so that the ISA limits don't apply? Could be. Another reason for doing this would be to add in if_media support at the same time, the ISA parts don't need this since they won't do 100Mb or full duplex. Creating a PCI specific version would remove the need for lots of conditional code. The if_media issue is important since the chips don't auto negotiate properly. >I know this chip is not the best, but I inherited several Dual Pentium >100 workstations with integrated motherboard devices, and I need to >keep them going since they are very stable and reliable SMP machines >(Intergraph TD-30s). It isn't bad, much better than NE2000 type cards. The size and cost of the chip compared to the Intel ones makes it a good choice for integrating into a motherboard so it isn't going to disappear. >If no one wants to fix the ISA/PCI version, I would like to help >extract a PCI-only version. I'll work on either. I work for a company that makes a system with an integrated Am79C971. One of the arguments that I use for why we should use FreeBSD on this system instead of Windows98 is "if a device driver doesn't work we can fix it", I guess I ought to make good on this claim. I was waiting to get the 3.1 CDs to take a look at this anyway but they have arrived now. Robert Swindells ------------------------------------- Robert Swindells - GenRad Ltd rjs@genrad.co.uk - Work rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk - Home To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 15:44:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF2D114DFE; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA18507; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:36:36 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905112036.WAA18507@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) To: eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen), jkh@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:36:36 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: faber@ISI.EDU, jabley@clear.co.nz, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905112217.SAA29674@pcnet1.pcnet.com> from "Daniel Eischen" at May 11, 99 06:16:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1333 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I am Bcc-ing Mark Podlipec since he might give us some input -- Mark, we were discussing about FreeBSD versions of the DLL's] > > but the xanim author won't go that route. See > > http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html . The short form is that the > > NDA he's under (or at least his interpretation thereof) won't let him > > upload to an account and compile there. > > Why not have someone with a Linux box build a Linux->FreeBSD cross > compiler for the xanim author. I did this a couple of years ago i think the necessary hardware would cost $1000 or less, and FreeBSD,Inc has some funds for this thipe of things i suppose. It is just a matter of deciding whether this is something worthwhile doing, and seeing if mark podlipec (Xanim's author) can handle cash or he needs a preinstalled machine shipped to him. Jordan, what do you think ? cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 15:49:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0F3150C2 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA14331; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA21006; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:47:24 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn4.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19444; Tue, 11 May 99 15:47:19 PDT Message-Id: <3738B375.22D5031F@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:47:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: David Greenman , Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? References: <199905110929.CAA01965@implode.root.com> <199905111827.LAA79215@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > You know, if ftp.cdrom.com shifted over to using more HTTP you could sell > add space and recoup some or all of the bandwidth costs. Matt: What an evil suggestion. Somehow, somewhere, we will get you for this. Hackers: I vote we sentence him to working on VM code and fixing NFS bugs -- for free! That'll teach him to spout off. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 16: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from argus.tfs.net (node12.unassigned245.tfs.net [139.146.245.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8E51514F for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) id SAA30538; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:01:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199905112301.SAA30538@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? In-Reply-To: <3738B375.22D5031F@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "May 11, 99 04:47:17 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:01:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #31: Thu Apr 8 10:40:17 CDT 1999 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > > You know, if ftp.cdrom.com shifted over to using more HTTP you could sell > > add space and recoup some or all of the bandwidth costs. > > Matt: What an evil suggestion. Somehow, somewhere, we will get you > for this. > > Hackers: I vote we sentence him to working on VM code and fixing NFS > bugs -- for free! That'll teach him to spout off. nah, david just loves vm too much, we couldn't let someone else take david's fun away from him :^) jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 16:16:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA07615234; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA59969; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen), jkh@freebsd.org, faber@ISI.EDU, jabley@clear.co.nz, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 22:36:36 +0200." <199905112036.WAA18507@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:16:09 -0700 Message-ID: <59966.926464569@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Jordan, what do you think ? I don't think it's worth it for just xanim. Give me more incentive than this. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 16:45: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2879714DFE for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA80697; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905112343.QAA80697@apollo.backplane.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: David Greenman , Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wonder what ftp.cdrom.com's utilisation's like now? References: <199905110929.CAA01965@implode.root.com> <199905111827.LAA79215@apollo.backplane.com> <3738B375.22D5031F@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Matthew Dillon wrote: :> :> You know, if ftp.cdrom.com shifted over to using more HTTP you could sell :> add space and recoup some or all of the bandwidth costs. : :Matt: What an evil suggestion. Somehow, somewhere, we will get you :for this. : :Hackers: I vote we sentence him to working on VM code and fixing NFS :bugs -- for free! That'll teach him to spout off. We could advertise FreeBaSeD Paraphernalia! And stuffed daemons, of course. -Matt Matthew Dillon :-- : "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" : :Wes Peters Softweyr LLC :http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 17:41: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D1D14E04 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40323>; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:25:53 +1000 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:40:33 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: What is a "transmit underflow"? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99May12.102553est.40323@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: >This almost always happens for tulip chips && and alpha platforms and Matt >Thomas' de driver. ... >> > :de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) >> > :de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) It also occurs under Digital UNIX: vmunix: tu0: transmit FIFO underflow: threshold raised to: 512 bytes vmunix: tu1: transmit FIFO underflow: threshold raised to: 512 bytes I suspect it's poor design of either the cards or bus. (I've previously queried DEC on why some SCSI cards were placed in particular locations, and received the following answer: "We place the SCSI cards as tested. We know that some cards don't work as well in all slots so we supply the tested version.") Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 18:41:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376CC150E7 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05242; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:42:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:42:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199905120042.UAA05242@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: faber@ISI.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luoqi@watermarkgroup.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On a related note, I don't know if people use xanim, a movie viewer in > > the ports collection, but it's recently been upgraded to support > > dynamically loadable codecs. The problem is that none of the codecs > > are compiled for FreeBSD, although there are three Linux versions :-). > > To use them (really to use the program at all) you have to compile a > > Linux version of xanim and run under emulation (which works really well, thanks > > emulation guys!). > > > > Yes, I've tried using the Linux codecs on the FreeBSD binary. No dice. > > > > The author is perfectly willing to compile these codecs for FreeBSD, > > but because he's under NDA for the codecs he can only release compiled > > versions. He's only willing to compile versions for other OSes under > > Linux (i.e. compile the codecs for FreeBSD on his Linux machine) or on > > a donated machine. (His reasoning for this, which IMHO is rational, > > is on http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html ) > > > > Given that he's running Linux, is a "cross-compiling environment" any > > more complex than having him link against our libc? If not can > > someone give me an idea what he does need. > > > > I'm delighted to act as a contact point and a tester for the xanim > > author, but I just don't know enough about our link environment. > > > > Anyone want to enlighten me? (I tried this on multimedia, and got no > > response). > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ted Faber faber@isi.edu > > USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber > > (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc > > > The only reason some of the linux codecs are not useable on FreeBSD is > the reference of symbol __IO_stderr, it should be quite easy to convert > them to references to &__sF[2]. > > -lq > Compile this little program, use it to process the linux .xa files, and they should be useable on FreeBSD. -lq #include #include #include #include #include #include main(int argc, char **argv) { int fd, i; void *addr; Elf_Ehdr *eh; Elf_Phdr *ph; Elf_Dyn *ed; Elf_Rel *reltab, *er; Elf_Sym *symtab; char *strtab, *name; int relsz, relent; struct stat stb; if (argc < 2) exit(1); fd = open(argv[1], O_RDWR); if (fd < 0) err(1, "%s", argv[1]); if (fstat(fd, &stb) < 0) { close(fd); err(-1, "fstat: %s", argv[1]); } addr = mmap(0, stb.st_size, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, fd, 0); close(fd); if ((int)addr == -1) err(-1, "mmap"); eh = (Elf_Ehdr *)addr; if (!IS_ELF(*eh)) err(1, "%s: not an ELF file", argv[1]); ph = (Elf_Phdr *)((unsigned)addr + eh->e_phoff); for (i = 0; i < eh->e_phnum; i++, ph++) { if (ph->p_type == PT_DYNAMIC) break; } if (i >= eh->e_phnum) err(-1, "no dynamic section"); ed = (Elf_Dyn *)((unsigned)addr + ph->p_offset); for (; ed->d_tag != DT_NULL; ed++) { if (ed->d_tag == DT_STRTAB) strtab = (char *)((unsigned)addr + ed->d_un.d_val); if (ed->d_tag == DT_SYMTAB) symtab = (Elf_Sym *)((unsigned)addr + ed->d_un.d_val); if (ed->d_tag == DT_REL) reltab = (Elf_Rel *)((unsigned)addr + ed->d_un.d_val); if (ed->d_tag == DT_RELSZ) relsz = ed->d_un.d_val; if (ed->d_tag == DT_RELENT) relent = ed->d_un.d_val; } for (i = 0, er = reltab; i < relsz / relent; i++, er++) { name = &strtab[symtab[ELF_R_SYM(er->r_info)].st_name]; if (strcmp("_IO_stderr_", name)) continue; strcpy(name, "__sF"); *(unsigned long *)((unsigned)addr + er->r_offset) += (unsigned)stderr - (unsigned)stdin; } munmap(addr, stb.st_size); } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 19:44:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5AB414EB7 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.cc) Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EBC1F11; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:44:03 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199905112036.WAA18507@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199905112036.WAA18507@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: <19990512024451.47EBC1F11@spawn.nectar.cc> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 11 May 1999 at 22:36, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > i think the necessary hardware would cost $1000 or less, and FreeBSD,Inc > has some funds for this thipe of things i suppose. It is just a > matter of deciding whether this is something worthwhile doing, and > seeing if mark podlipec (Xanim's author) can handle cash or he > needs a preinstalled machine shipped to him. vmware to the rescue? + a couple of hundred megs of disk space Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 19:48:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp [133.34.17.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C718A14E80; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp) Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W-Naklab-2.1-19981120) with ESMTP id LAA60000; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:47:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905120247.LAA60000@rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de, zinnia@jan.ne.jp Cc: Seigo TANIMURA Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports From: Seigo TANIMURA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 06:03:20 +0200 (MET DST)" References: <199905110403.GAA16253@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 / Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:47:54 +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999 06:03:20 +0200 (MET DST), Luigi Rizzo said: luigi> If i understand well, you are supporting the handling of MIDI commands luigi> through the sio port only -- so i wonder what are the changes to the luigi> audio driver(s) other than intercepting the device i/o calls and pass luigi> them to your driver. The following figure is the framework for the midi drivers and the sequencer I have at this moment: /dev/seqnencer | | <-- (Abstruct sequencer events and delays) v Sequencer driver (sys/i386/isa/snd/sequencer.c) | | <-- (Abstruct synthesizer events) +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | v v Midi synthesizer interface (struct synthdev_info, sys/i386/snd/midisynth.c) OPL synthesizer interface | | | <-- (Midi events) --> | v v Midi driver (sys/i386/isa/snd/uartsio.c) <-- /dev/midi --> OPL driver | | | <-- (Device-specific operations) --> | v v Midi interface OPL chip Abstruct sequencer events are SEQ_* events. Abstruct synthesizer events are the entries in struct synthdev_info. Device-specific operations are the lowest-level functions to transmit midi messages or operate the OPL. The midi buffer manager(in sys/i386/isa/snd/midibuf.c) is now only a library, and will not handle I/O calls directly. The interrupts by a midi interface or an OPL chip go up to the sequencer driver in the inverse direction of the arrows in the figure. Writing a new midi/OPL driver involves two sorts of codes to implement: the lowest-level driver(like uartsio.c) and the synthesizer interface(the most functions in midisynth.c can be re-used). luigi> Second thing: i think (but i may be wrong) in the Voxware driver luigi> the name "sequencer" was used to identify the syntesizer luigi> (OLP3/4/whatever). What do you mean by "sequencer" instead, and should luigi> i perhaps change the name generated by /dev/sndstat to avoid confusion ? I understand that a sequencer interprets only time-related events (delays, syncs, etc), and it is completely device-independent. Seigo TANIMURA |M2, Nakagawa Lab, Dept of Electronics & CS =========================|Faculty of Engineering, Yokohama National Univ Powered by SIEMENS, |http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/ FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT |http://www.sakura.ne.jp/~tcarrot/ (9th May 1999) & muesli. |tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp tcarrot@sakuramail.com VoxWare/LGSND Midi Driver for Serial Ports on FreeBSD: http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/freebsd-serialmidi/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 20: 2: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp [133.34.17.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C87314E80; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:02:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp) Received: from rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp (8.9.1a/3.7W-Naklab-2.1-19981120) with ESMTP id MAA60097; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:02:00 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905120302.MAA60097@rina.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp> To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de, zinnia@jan.ne.jp Cc: Seigo TANIMURA (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQytCPEA1OWQbKEI=?=) Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports From: Seigo TANIMURA (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQytCPEA1OWQbKEI=?=) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700" References: <73643.926406478@zippy.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 / Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:02:00 +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700, "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: >> After a week of struggle, I am pleased very much to announce >> that Luigi's sound driver now has a midi interface and a sequencer! jkh> Excellent! I'm very happy to hear this. Any idea when you guys will jkh> be able to support the on-board MIDI interfaces featured on many sound jkh> cards? Once that day comes, I'd say this code should go straight into jkh> -current! We have to discuss of the midi driver framework first, so that we have no misunderstandings. Then we can write the drivers for the other devices. OPL3 will be the first one, as a lot of people should have one. Some members of the Unix-DTM club in Japan are willing to write the drivers, so I would like to make the tasks defined clearly. A week of discussion would be enough, I hope :-) $BC+B<(B $B@59d(B(Seigo TANIMURA)|$B2#IM9qN)Bg3XBg3X1!(B $B9)3X8&5f2J(B =========================|$BEE;R>pJs9)3X@l96(B $BCf@n8&5f<<(B M2 Powered by SIEMENS, |http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/ FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT |http://www.sakura.ne.jp/~tcarrot/ (9th May 1999) & muesli. |tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp tcarrot@sakuramail.com VoxWare/LGSND Midi Driver for Serial Ports on FreeBSD: http://www.naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp/~tanimura/freebsd-serialmidi/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 21:36:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.albury.net.au (marvin.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D6914DDB for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josh2@marvin.albury.net.au) Received: (from josh2@localhost) by marvin.albury.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA00338; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from josh2) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:26 +1000 (EST) From: Josh2 Lists To: John Baldwin Subject: RE: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG HI Hmmmm. I did a "make world" from /usr/src and tried again. No luck, I got the same error. I would really like to know if someone else has actually got this to work. I need to get it going but I will go (back) to 2.2.8 if it cant work as I need a.out for the machine the code needs to run on. Josh On 11-May-99 John Baldwin wrote: > I've seen this same problem. The compat22 distribution only includes aout > libs, it doesn't include support for compiling aout applications, you have to > make the world or run make in some other directory to generate the aout > linking > "glue". Might it be possible to include this stuff in compat22 or some > other > compat patckage? (compataout?) > > On 11-May-99 Josh2 Lists wrote: >> >> Hi. >> Should this work on 3.1-release (new install)? >> cc -aout an.c -o an >> >> And if so why do I get this when I have installed the >> 2.2 compat stuff from the distributions on disk 1 >> via the sysinstall utility? >> >> ld: crt0.o: No such file or directory >> >> Josh >> >> ---------------------------------- >> E-Mail: Josh2 Lists >> Date: 11-May-99 >> Time: 11:41:44 >> >> This message was sent by XFMail >> ---------------------------------- >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > --- > > John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ > PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Josh2 Lists Date: 12-May-99 Time: 14:33:04 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 21:46:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6F815254 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22350; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15537; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Josh2 Lists Subject: RE: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 12-May-99 Josh2 Lists wrote: > HI > > Hmmmm. I did a "make world" from /usr/src and tried again. > No luck, I got the same error. > > I would really like to know if someone else has actually got this > to work. I need to get it going but I will go (back) to 2.2.8 > if it cant work as I need a.out for the machine the code needs to > run on. > > Josh If you are doing it with current -stable sources, you need to define WANT_AOUT (sp?) to true in /etc/make.conf and make world again. That oughta get you the aout bits you need in /usr/lib/aout. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 23:29:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7141014E39 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA19239; Wed, 12 May 1999 06:21:53 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905120421.GAA19239@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) To: n@nectar.cc (Jacques Vidrine) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 06:21:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990512024451.47EBC1F11@spawn.nectar.cc> from "Jacques Vidrine" at May 11, 99 09:43:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 283 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > matter of deciding whether this is something worthwhile doing, and > > seeing if mark podlipec (Xanim's author) can handle cash or he > > needs a preinstalled machine shipped to him. > > vmware to the rescue? + a couple of hundred megs of disk space possibly, yes... luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 23:32:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.albury.net.au (marvin.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431A614E39 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josh2@marvin.albury.net.au) Received: (from josh2@localhost) by marvin.albury.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA00765; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:34:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from josh2) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:34:12 +1000 (EST) From: Josh2 Lists To: John Baldwin Subject: RE: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it the same for 3.1-Release? That is what I am running. I hope so! Josh On 12-May-99 John Baldwin wrote: > > If you are doing it with current -stable sources, you need to define > WANT_AOUT > (sp?) to true in /etc/make.conf and make world again. That oughta get you > the > aout bits you need in /usr/lib/aout. > > --- > > John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ > PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Josh2 Lists Date: 12-May-99 Time: 15:50:03 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 11 23:44:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web115.yahoomail.com (web115.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7568A14DD7 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990512064556.3876.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by web115.yahoomail.com; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:45:56 PDT Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Re: modex support (again) To: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I don't know about the others, but I look forward to the functionality you may add. Regards, Tommy --- Kelly Yancey wrote: > > Hmm. I sent this message a few days ago and it has been silently ignored. > Should I consider that an OK to extern the get_mode_param function in > vga_isa.c? Or should I take that as a mass "go ahead, we're not going to > commit the code anyway?" :( > > Thanks, > > Kelly > ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ > FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kelly Yancey > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: modex support > > > I had mentioned earlier this week that I was working on adding support > for a few more "tweaked" VGA modes (320x240 was already in there), namely > 320x400, 320x480, 360x200, 360x240, 360x400, and 360x480. Well, the good > news is that it was *really* easy to simply include the code in vga_isa.c > and all was dandy. However, I'de like to see this actually have a chance > is h*ll of getting into FreeBSD so I figured that since it is fairly > useless to most people (I've got some plans for it) that the best thing to > do would be to make a KLD (like vesa.ko). > That was coming along alright...that is until I realized that by not > including the code in vga_isa.c, I no longer had access to the BIOS mode > table (mode_map[] in vga_isa.c). Actually, I'de even be content to get at > the get_mode_param() function which is also in vga_isa.c (both of which > are currently static by the way). Would anyone have any objections to my > extern'ing the get_mode_param() function? And if not, which header file > should I put the function declaration in (if any)? > > Thanks > > (By the way, I'm having trouble understanding exactly how mmap works > with the vga driver, if anyone could help shed some light on it I would > greatly appriciate it, Soren? Kazutaka? Thanks!) > > ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ > FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > === Regards, Tommy Hallgren Briljantg. 31, SE-421 49, Göteborg Tel.: 031 - 770 5232 (Work: Telia Prosoft) Tel.: 0709 - 312 404 (GSM) Tel.: 031 - 47 65 28 (Home) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 2:42:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F30214BD3 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 02:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hVUY-0000gv-00; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:39:54 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: Josh2 Lists , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400." Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:39:54 +0200 Message-ID: <2660.926501994@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > If you are doing it with current -stable sources, you need to define WANT_AOUT > (sp?) to true in /etc/make.conf and make world again. That oughta get you the > aout bits you need in /usr/lib/aout. I take it the aout bits installed will be from the compat22's uuencoded libraries, not compiled on the build machine, yes? Ciaol, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 2:47:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.ideal.net.au (magnesium.ideal.net.au [203.20.241.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56CD214BD3 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 02:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by magnesium.ideal.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA02583; Wed, 12 May 1999 19:46:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from andrew@ugh.net.au) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:46:18 +1000 (EST) From: andrew@ugh.net.au X-Sender: andrew@magnesium.ideal.net.au To: Hellmuth Michaelis Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, snadge@gemcorp.com.au Subject: Re: Termcap and cursor keys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 7 May 1999, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > The cursor keys generate 2 different sequences depending on wether they > are in "normal" mode or "application mode": normal sends "CSI A" (where > CSI is 0x9b in 8-bit mode or "ESC [" in 7-bit mode) and application sends > "SS3 A" (where SS3 is 0x8f in 8-bit mode or "ESC O" in 7-bit mode). > > Mode switching is done by the sequence "CSI ? 1 h" (application) and > "CSI ? 1 l" (normal). > > Now what a given terminal sends depend on what it was switched to (or not) > in the init string(s) (look at "is=xxxx" in the termcap db entry). Well thanks for all your help. I have also found out that if the terminal in question needs to have its keypad switched to application mode the ks termcap capability is defined so: (void)tputs(ks, 1, putchar); will switch it on (assuming ks has already been filled out with tcgetstr). You can use: (void)tputs(ke, 1, putchar); to turn it off again before your program exits. Once the keypad is turned on the strings for the cursor keys given in the termcap database seem to work on all platforms (well the ones I've tried). I do notice there is no vi capability listed for cons25 though... Thanks again, Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 4:24:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82FF14F79 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 04:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06911; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28786; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Josh2 Lists Subject: RE: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG With 3.1-R the default is to build and aout and elf world. Make sure you don't have NO_AOUT uncommented in your /etc/make.conf as that turns aout off. On 12-May-99 Josh2 Lists wrote: > > Is it the same for 3.1-Release? That is what I am running. > I hope so! > > Josh > > On 12-May-99 John Baldwin wrote: >> >> If you are doing it with current -stable sources, you need to define >> WANT_AOUT >> (sp?) to true in /etc/make.conf and make world again. That oughta get you >> the >> aout bits you need in /usr/lib/aout. >> >> --- >> >> John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ >> PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc >> "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Josh2 Lists > Date: 12-May-99 > Time: 15:50:03 > > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 4:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F0614F79 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 04:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06907; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20424; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2660.926501994@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Josh2 Lists , John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 12-May-99 Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Wed, 12 May 1999 00:46:25 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >> If you are doing it with current -stable sources, you need to define >> WANT_AOUT >> (sp?) to true in /etc/make.conf and make world again. That oughta get you >> the >> aout bits you need in /usr/lib/aout. > > I take it the aout bits installed will be from the compat22's uuencoded > libraries, not compiled on the build machine, yes? Nope, the WANT_AOUT forces them to be compiled as part of the world build. That is they only way I know of thus far to build crt0.o and friends which are needed for linking aout executables. > Ciaol, > Sheldon. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 5: 8:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD2F15CC7 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 05:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hXnK-000F1i-00; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:07:26 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Josh2 Lists Subject: Re: 3.1 cc -aout - No go? AGAIN after make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:55 -0400." Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:07:26 +0200 Message-ID: <57765.926510846@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 12 May 1999 07:24:55 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > Nope, the WANT_AOUT forces them to be compiled as part of the world > build. That is they only way I know of thus far to build crt0.o and > friends which are needed for linking aout executables. Ah, gotcha. Seems like crt0.o and its buddies would find a good home in the compat22 directory as well, then. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 7:11:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8499E15C80; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:11:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id KAA64847; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: sos@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: <199905120006.JAA05856@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 12 May 1999, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > Hi, > > >Hmm. I sent this message a few days ago and it has been silently ignored. > >Should I consider that an OK to extern the get_mode_param function in > >vga_isa.c? Or should I take that as a mass "go ahead, we're not going to > >commit the code anyway?" :( > > Sorry, I missed your original message ;-< > > I will contact you later today on this issue. > > Kazu > Thanks a lot. Sorry to sound so glum...I just wouldn't want to be wasting time on an, albeit minor, project which was going nowhere. I really appreciate the feedback and I've received e-mail from a few list members interested in seeing this happen. So I'm excited :) I think that if I can figure out a way to make this into a KLD that there really couldn't be any objections. :) I've got it working right now by including the modes in vga_isa.c, but I don't like the idea of adding kernel kludge seeing as most people probably don't need/want it. Thanks again, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 7:52:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scallop.baynetworks.com (ns5.baynetworks.com [194.133.90.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAAA15D4E; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:52:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from podlipec@engeast.BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by scallop.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01657; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:48:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07959; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nantucket.engeast (nantucket [192.32.90.27]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id KAA20102; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:47:10 -0400 for From: podlipec@baynetworks.com (Mark Podlipec) Message-Id: <199905121447.KAA20102@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM> Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen), jkh@freebsd.org, faber@isi.edu, jabley@clear.co.nz, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905112036.WAA18507@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at May 11, 1999 10:36:36 PM Organization: Nortel Networks. Billerica MA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > [I am Bcc-ing Mark Podlipec since he might give us some input -- Mark, > we were discussing about FreeBSD versions of the DLL's] > > > > but the xanim author won't go that route. See > > > http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xa_dlls.html . The short form is that the > > > NDA he's under (or at least his interpretation thereof) won't let him > > > upload to an account and compile there. > > > > Why not have someone with a Linux box build a Linux->FreeBSD cross > > compiler for the xanim author. I did this a couple of years ago > > i think the necessary hardware would cost $1000 or less, and FreeBSD,Inc > has some funds for this thipe of things i suppose. It is just a > matter of deciding whether this is something worthwhile doing, and > seeing if mark podlipec (Xanim's author) can handle cash or he > needs a preinstalled machine shipped to him. I'd really rather have the cross-compilers. One for ELF and one for the older freebsd object file format(A.OUT?). That way every time I make a change I can just type "make freebsdELF" and "make freebsd" right afterwards. The problem with a separate machine(or OS partition) is the time it takes to setup and maintain and more importantly having to transfer the correct sources across to it and then transfer the compiled module back from it every time something changes. It doesn't sound like much but it really eats up the time. Especially given the number of different systems I'll have to support. Someone has attempted to send me a FreeBSD ELF cross-compiler but it was missing a section due to tar archiving a link and not the directory the link pointed to. They will be sending me the missing part soon, hopefully. I did have a freebsd cross-compiler for a sunos 4.x system but it didn't have enough to do the DLLs and beside my sunos 4.x system is going away in a week or so. The cross-compiler should be for a linux x86 glib 2.x system(since I don't have easy access to a libc 5.0 system). Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 8: 6:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F1B0D14D92; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA20389; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:56:44 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905121256.OAA20389@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) To: podlipec@baynetworks.com (Mark Podlipec) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:56:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, faber@isi.edu, jabley@clear.co.nz, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905121447.KAA20102@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM> from "Mark Podlipec" at May 12, 99 10:46:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 897 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd really rather have the cross-compilers. One for ELF and one for > the older freebsd object file format(A.OUT?). That way every time > I make a change I can just type "make freebsdELF" and "make freebsd" > right afterwards. ... > The problem with a separate machine(or OS partition) is the time it > takes to setup and maintain and more importantly having to transfer > the correct sources across to it and then transfer the compiled module i can understand the problems with a separate OS partition, which would force you to reboot, but with a separate machine the only trouble i can see is having one more box around -- NFS and diskless really help a lot for everything else. The system (if you use a 3.1S/3.2 should be relatively stable so you should not need to upgrade for a reasonably long time. Someone suggested vmware and run a FreeBSD system under Linux on it ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 8: 8:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4EA714D1A for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08150 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:57:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:57:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Metablock caching & negative block # Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems to me that metablocks such as filesystem superblock and cylinder group control blocks are associated with the device vnode. The indirect blocks are associated with the file using them to find data blocks. These indirect blocks are identified by negative block numbers. This makes the max file size limited by 2^31 * 2^9, because we need one bit in the block number to cope with negative block numbers. The first time I understand this I think it is cool because it allows buffering both kinds of data in the same way and we can differentiate them at the same time. Now my question is why we must associated these (double, triple) indirect blocks with the file using them? If these indirect blocks can be handled like other metablocks (superblocks, cylinder group control blocks), we can save one bit and make the max file size to be 2^32*2^9. By the way, all other metablocks seem to be delay-written. In other words, they are not written synchronously. What happens if the system crashes before their updates go to disk. I read in the mailinglist that FreeBSD metadata I/O are conservative. Can anyone describe this a little bit for me. Any help is appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 8:48:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.promo.de (mail.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF63E15179 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from d225.promo.de (d225.Promo.DE [194.45.188.225]) by mail.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06857; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:48:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:47:43 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Metablock caching & negative block # Message-ID: <819360.3135520063@d225.promo.de> In-Reply-To: Originator-Info: login-id=stefan; server=mail X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.2, s/n U-301178] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zhihui Zhang wrote: > By the way, all other metablocks seem to be delay-written. In other = words, > they are not written synchronously. What happens if the system crashes > before their updates go to disk. I read in the mailinglist that FreeBSD > metadata I/O are conservative. Can anyone describe this a little bit = for > me. AFAIK, the non-static information in the superblock and others can easily be reconstructed by fsck (the information is gathered anyway). Stefan -- M=FChlendamm 12 | Voice +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22089 Hamburg | e-mail: stefan.bethke@hanse.de Germany | stb@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 9:10:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from onion.ish.org (onion.ish.org [210.145.219.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFB015360 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ishizuka@ish.org) Received: from localhost (ishizuka@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by onion.ish.org (8.9.3/3.7Wpl1-08/27/98) with ESMTP id BAA05308; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:09:52 +0900 (JST) To: luoqi@watermarkgroup.com Cc: faber@ISI.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) In-Reply-To: <199905120042.UAA05242@lor.watermarkgroup.com> References: <199905120042.UAA05242@lor.watermarkgroup.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94b25 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) X-PGP-Fingerprint20: 276D 697A C2CB 1580 C683 8F18 DA98 1A4A 50D2 C4CB X-PGP-Fingerprint16: C6 DE 46 24 D7 9F 22 EB 79 E2 90 AB 1B 9A 35 2E X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.ish.org/pgp-public-key.txt X-URL: http://www.ish.org/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990513010952X.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:09:52 +0900 From: Masachika ISHIZUKA X-Dispatcher: imput version 990425(IM115) Lines: 11 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> The only reason some of the linux codecs are not useable on FreeBSD is >> the reference of symbol __IO_stderr, it should be quite easy to convert >> them to references to &__sF[2]. > > Compile this little program, use it to process the linux .xa files, and they > should be useable on FreeBSD. Hi. This is ishizuka. It's great!!! Thank you very much. -- ishizuka@ish.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 9:13:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE89115360 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09508; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:13:35 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: Masachika ISHIZUKA Cc: luoqi@watermarkgroup.com, faber@ISI.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) In-Reply-To: <19990513010952X.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 May 1999, Masachika ISHIZUKA wrote: >>> The only reason some of the linux codecs are not useable on FreeBSD is >>> the reference of symbol __IO_stderr, it should be quite easy to convert >>> them to references to &__sF[2]. >> >> Compile this little program, use it to process the linux .xa files, and they >> should be useable on FreeBSD. > > Hi. This is ishizuka. > It's great!!! Thank you very much. Hmmm, maybe someone should just fire these .xa files back to Mr. Xanim for the FreeBSD port? OR, add this little program to the freebsd port to convert the files? Maybe that would be better yet. Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 10: 2:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DD714CA3 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-69-111.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.69.111]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28948; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA09957; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199905121703.NAA09957@bellsouth.net> To: podlipec@baynetworks.com (Mark Podlipec) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 10:47:10 EDT." <199905121447.KAA20102@pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:03:29 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd really rather have the cross-compilers. Me too, but for other reasons. If you are using CVS then the problems you mention of working between systems will be greatly minimized. Besides, we'd really like to see you try FreeBSD :-) My major problem with the approach you are considering really relates to quality control issues. Have you earnestly tried to reason for release from NDA? Sometimes it really works. :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 10:38:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zeus.carroll.com (zeus.carroll.com [199.224.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E99314C90 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@carroll.com) Received: from apollo.carroll.com [199.224.10.3] by zeus.carroll.com with ESMTP (8.8.5/0) id NAA15559; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:38:14 -0400 Received: by apollo.carroll.com (8.8.5) is NAA03628; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:38:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:38:00 -0400 From: Jim Carroll To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fsck and large file system Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. Note: I know we could just partition the array to two smaller systems (which is what we are planning to do if we can't get past this), but I thought I'd take a shot and see if anyone else had a work around. --- Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. 201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider www.carroll.com | | Want to grow your business and at the same | time, decrease costs? Ask about the www.message-server.com | Carroll-Net Message Server. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 11:11:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0931214FFC for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id UAA20608; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:11:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22422; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:11:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:11:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Jim Carroll Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) Might not the use of LFS improve this, or have I completely misunderstood the purpose of LFS? > We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering > if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. Sorry. - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 11:15:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC11815A65 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23752; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:15:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:15:14 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jim Carroll Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) Huh- I remember fixing this for NetBSD. You have to do a setrlimit within fsck so it can malloc enough space and have enough swap to back that. We were fsck'ing 600GB+ filesystems. > > > We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering > > if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. > I've been doing 120GB+ filesystems for FreeBSD for quite some time. The real fun will be the 1TB filesystems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 12:17:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FFC14BE1 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23534; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:17:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems From: "Mark J. Taylor" To: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: fsck and large file system Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jim Carroll Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The problem that we ran into in a system with several 130 MB RAID5 arrays is that the fsck was running out of RAM+swap. We had to add a vnode to swap to before the fsck would complete (basically added more swap space). We had to have over 100 MB swap space to fsck the 130 MB volume, and the system has 64 MB RAM. This was is 2.2.8 (haven't upgraded it yet). BTW: this system is getting VERY poor I/O performance, using the DPT SCSI RAID controller and three arrays of four 49 GB Seagate drives. "iozone" reports 340,000 bytes/sec write and 9,800,000 bytes/sec read. This horrendous write rate makes the system virtually unusable. Anyone have any ideas on improving the performance? Would an upgrade from its 2.2.8 to 3.{1,2} help? It is a Pentium 166. During the "iozone" test, there seems to be only a few (less than 10) interrupts from the DPT card per second ("systat -vm 1"). Am I losing interrupts (it would seem so)... ? -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer mtaylor@cybernet.com On 12-May-99 Matthew Jacob wrote: > > >> > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file >> > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, >> > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data >> > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) > > Huh- I remember fixing this for NetBSD. You have to do a setrlimit within > fsck so it can malloc enough space and have enough swap to back that. We > were fsck'ing 600GB+ filesystems. > >> >> > We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering >> > if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. >> > > I've been doing 120GB+ filesystems for FreeBSD for quite some time. The > real fun will be the 1TB filesystems. > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- Mark J. Taylor Networking Research Cybernet Systems mtaylor@cybernet.com 727 Airport Blvd. PHONE (734) 668-2567 Ann Arbor, MI 48108 FAX (734) 668-8780 http://www.cybernet.com/ http://www.netmax.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 12:36:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FBE15AF2 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA87808; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905121936.MAA87808@apollo.backplane.com> To: Jim Carroll Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : : : I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file : systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, : fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data : structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) : : We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering : if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. : : Note: I know we could just partition the array to two smaller systems : (which is what we are planning to do if we can't get past this), but I : thought I'd take a shot and see if anyone else had a work around. : :--- :Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. :201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider :www.carroll.com | : | Want to grow your business and at the same : | time, decrease costs? Ask about the :www.message-server.com | Carroll-Net Message Server. The traditional rule of thumb for swap is to have 2x the swap as you have main memory. But in your case, considering the size of the filesystems you have to deal with, I recommend reserving at least 1GB of swap for the system. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 13:25:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zeus.carroll.com (zeus.carroll.com [199.224.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948621507F for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@carroll.com) Received: from apollo.carroll.com [199.224.10.3] by zeus.carroll.com with ESMTP (8.8.5/0) id QAA32457; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:25:32 -0400 Received: by apollo.carroll.com (8.8.5) is QAA01244; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:25:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:25:29 -0400 From: Jim Carroll To: Matthew Jacob Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > > > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > > > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > > > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) > > > > I've been doing 120GB+ filesystems for FreeBSD for quite some time. The > real fun will be the 1TB filesystems. How much Swap disk space have you allocated on machines that you fsck'ed that were this large ? Thanks --- Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. 201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider www.carroll.com | | Want to grow your business and at the same | time, decrease costs? Ask about the www.message-server.com | Carroll-Net Message Server. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 13:54: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79DB153FF; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11908; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Tomas TPS Ulej Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redirection service In-Reply-To: <003101be9bf1$42821ec0$6301a8c0@tps.tps.sk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 May 1999, Tomas TPS Ulej wrote: > I saw bounce package and also linux redir. More information about trasparent > proxy I found at http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/IPfwd/ is > there solution for FreeBSD? I need this: > > BOX A (195.168.11.1) -> REDIR (195.168.11.5) -> DEST 1 (195.168.12.1) > -> DEST 2 (195.168.12.2) > > How can I set box 195.168.11.5 if I want got connection from BOX A to DEST 1 > (masquaraded). > Anyway, maybe is confused now :) > > BOX A -> REDIR -> DEST1 > (a) (b) (c) > > on (b) is source IP (a), dest (b) I want rewrite packet to source (a), dest > (c). If I try use bounce source will change to (b), dest to (c). I nedd > source (a), dest (c) > > Any ideas? related webpage sources... ? transproxy? Are you trying to redirect a specific service, or all requests for a particular IP address? Doug White Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 14:25:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F50715651; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01260; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905122124.OAA01260@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: julian@whistle.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 14:56:57 PDT." <19990511215657.0617415C39@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:24:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > As long as you don't insist on trying your ?Irish? (Not) accent out > > like last time... > > no problem, mate, got a new one fer you this year. I'd avoid that one, since there will be plenty of the authentic article around to show up your shabby impersonation. Pick something more original. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 14:38:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8782614DD4 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24521; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:19 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jim Carroll Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I've been doing 120GB+ filesystems for FreeBSD for quite some time. The > > real fun will be the 1TB filesystems. > > How much Swap disk space have you allocated on machines that you fsck'ed > that were this large ? Well, here's a current FreeBSD machine that has a couple 60GB raid boxes ccd'd together: Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ccd0c 122255964 4 112475484 0% /mnt ds3.nas.nasa.gov > lmdd of=file bs=32k ^C600.25 MB in 27.46 seconds (21.8584 MB/sec) ds3.nas.nasa.gov > swapinfo Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 1023872 0 1023872 0% Interleaved Here's a NetBSD machine with a 155GB array: brunner > df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd7a 158057244 4 150154376 0% /mnt brunner > swapctl -l Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Priority /dev/sd0b 1099340 8 1099332 0% 0 brunner > lmdd of=file bs=32k ^C623.22 MB in 24.52 seconds (25.4209 MB/sec) Yes, substantial swap. I've probably fsck'd with smaller swap. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 15: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BFA1516D; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:01:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA27059; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:01:14 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Mike Smith Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , julian@whistle.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Message-ID: <19990512150114.A27034@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <19990511215657.0617415C39@hub.freebsd.org> <199905122124.OAA01260@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905122124.OAA01260@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, May 12, 1999 at 02:24:10PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 02:24:10PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > As long as you don't insist on trying your ?Irish? (Not) accent out > > > like last time... > > > > no problem, mate, got a new one fer you this year. > > I'd avoid that one, since there will be plenty of the authentic article > around to show up your shabby impersonation. > > Pick something more original. 8) How about Klingon? I doubt anyone would question how authentic your accent is ;-) Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 15:19:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3A215549 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01586; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905122217.PAA01586@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kelly Yancey Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 May 1999 14:41:20 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:17:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > and all was dandy. However, I'de like to see this actually have a chance > is h*ll of getting into FreeBSD so I figured that since it is fairly > useless to most people (I've got some plans for it) that the best thing to > do would be to make a KLD (like vesa.ko). I don't think so. Your code is not dependant on any of the things that the VESA code is; if you can't use the same mechanisms the VESA code can to become a KLD, I'd suggest you should just bolt into the standard syscons code. Kazu's the boss here though; see what he has to say. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 16:14:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A3415675 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09579; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:14:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:14:37 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Jim Carroll Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system Message-ID: <19990512181437.C21989@futuresouth.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Carroll on Wed, May 12, 1999 at 01:38:00PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 01:38:00PM -0400, a little birdie told me that Jim Carroll remarked > > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) Egads. You really want more swap than that, just on GP. My new workstation (just set the little bugger up today) has 256 megs of RAM. [18:13:49] mortis:~ (ttyp1):{1}% pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/da0s1b 655232 0 655232 0% Interleaved /dev/da1s1b 524160 0 524160 0% Interleaved /dev/da2s1b 130944 0 130944 0% Interleaved /dev/da3s1b 262016 0 262016 0% Interleaved /dev/da4s1b 524160 0 524160 0% Interleaved Total 2096512 0 2096512 0% Now, I'm a bit crazy, so I tend to go overboard. But you'd proabably want at least 512 megs on a system like that. Hell, you have 126 gig lying around, you can afford a little more swap ;) -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller MF4839 http://www.over-yonder.net/ | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 16:59:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581EA15DD0 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA03347; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:28:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA15297; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:28:08 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:28:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Mark J. Taylor" Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jim Carroll Subject: Re: fsck and large file system Message-ID: <19990513092808.X89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Mark J. Taylor on Wed, May 12, 1999 at 03:18:22PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 12 May 1999 at 15:18:22 -0400, Mark J. Taylor wrote: > On 12-May-99 Matthew Jacob wrote: >> >> >>>> I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file >>>> systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, >>>> fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data >>>> structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) >> >> Huh- I remember fixing this for NetBSD. You have to do a setrlimit within >> fsck so it can malloc enough space and have enough swap to back that. We >> were fsck'ing 600GB+ filesystems. >> >>> >>>> We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering >>>> if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. >>> >> >> I've been doing 120GB+ filesystems for FreeBSD for quite some time. The >> real fun will be the 1TB filesystems. > > The problem that we ran into in a system with several 130 MB RAID5 arrays > is that the fsck was running out of RAM+swap. We had to add a vnode to swap > to before the fsck would complete (basically added more swap space). > We had to have over 100 MB swap space to fsck the 130 MB volume, and the > system has 64 MB RAM. This was is 2.2.8 (haven't upgraded it yet). Why can't you just use more swap rather than resort to vnodes? > BTW: this system is getting VERY poor I/O performance, using the DPT SCSI RAID > controller and three arrays of four 49 GB Seagate drives. "iozone" reports > 340,000 bytes/sec write and 9,800,000 bytes/sec read. That's particularly bad. Which model was it? I've done some comparisons with Vinum and found that the write performance of Vinum (RAID-5) was round 25% of read performance, while it was below 10% on the SmartRAID IV. You should also try rawio (ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/rawio.tar.gz). iozone and bonnie use block devices, and they measure the total system, not just the storage device. > This horrendous write rate makes the system virtually unusable. > Anyone have any ideas on improving the performance? Use Vinum :-) > Would an upgrade from its 2.2.8 to 3.{1,2} help? It doesn't seem to be a FreeBSD issue. > It is a Pentium 166. During the "iozone" test, there seems to be > only a few (less than 10) interrupts from the DPT card per second > ("systat -vm 1"). Am I losing interrupts (it would seem so)... ? I think you'd get a message if you lost interrupts. It would be interesting to correlate the interrupt load with the test you're doing. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 17:35: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id CDA701501E; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: mike@smith.net.au, julian@whistle.com, nrahlstr@winternet.com, lynch@rush.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990512150114.A27034@ontario.mooseriver.com> (message from Josef Grosch on Wed, 12 May 1999 15:01:14 -0700) Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Message-Id: <19990513003507.CDA701501E@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > How about Klingon? I doubt anyone would question how authentic your accent > is ;-) how about gelf....i'll bring a handkerchief so that everyone stays dry. ;P jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 17:36:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571F914C9B; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:36:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29314; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:48:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905130048.KAA29314@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner In-Reply-To: <19990513003507.CDA701501E@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "May 12, 1999 5:35: 7 pm" To: jmb@hub.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:48:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > How about Klingon? I doubt anyone would question how authentic your accent > > is ;-) > > how about gelf....i'll bring a handkerchief so that everyone > stays dry. ;P Will people please stop posting this stuff to -hackers. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 18: 4:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA3514C11 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from localhost (cyouse@localhost) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08202; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.cybersites.com: cyouse owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Youse To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" , Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jim Carroll Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: <19990513092808.X89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whoa ... can anyone substantiate that this poor performance is typical or atypical of DPT SCSI RAID controllers? I was just about to drop $6000 on a DPT SmartRAID IV 64MB. . . Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com On Thu, 13 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 12 May 1999 at 15:18:22 -0400, Mark J. Taylor wrote: > > BTW: this system is getting VERY poor I/O performance, using the DPT SCSI RAID > > controller and three arrays of four 49 GB Seagate drives. "iozone" reports > > 340,000 bytes/sec write and 9,800,000 bytes/sec read. > > That's particularly bad. Which model was it? I've done some > comparisons with Vinum and found that the write performance of Vinum > (RAID-5) was round 25% of read performance, while it was below 10% on > the SmartRAID IV. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 21: 7:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA0314D91; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA42109; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:06:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA26084; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905130407.WAA26084@harmony.village.org> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: USENIX FreeBSD Dinner Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 17:35:07 PDT." <19990513003507.CDA701501E@hub.freebsd.org> References: <19990513003507.CDA701501E@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:07:07 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990513003507.CDA701501E@hub.freebsd.org> "Jonathan M. Bresler" writes: : how about gelf....i'll bring a handkerchief so that everyone : stays dry. ;P What? No spoo? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 12 21:41:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.talcom.net (unknown [209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81CC114FB8 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leo@homer.talcom.net) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.talcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA25528 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:43:56 -0400 From: Leo Papandreou To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fsck and large file system Message-ID: <19990513004356.A23725@homer.talcom.net> References: <199905121936.MAA87808@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905121936.MAA87808@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Wed, May 12, 1999 at 12:36:24PM -0700 X-No-Archive: Yes X-Organization: Not very, no. X-Wife: Forgotten but not gone. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 12:36:24PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > : > : > : I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > : systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > : fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > : structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) > : > : We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering > : if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. > : > : Note: I know we could just partition the array to two smaller systems > : (which is what we are planning to do if we can't get past this), but I > : thought I'd take a shot and see if anyone else had a work around. > : > :--- > :Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. > :201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider > :www.carroll.com | > : | Want to grow your business and at the same > : | time, decrease costs? Ask about the > :www.message-server.com | Carroll-Net Message Server. > > The traditional rule of thumb for swap is to have 2x the swap as you > have main memory. But in your case, considering the size of the > filesystems you have to deal with, I recommend reserving at least 1GB > of swap for the system. Maybe, but for fsck purposes 2x worked for us. 128M ram, 144G array. Not a problem. Takes a long time of course - real long if you have to fsck a degraded array that's screeching at the top of it's lungs. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 2: 3:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fionn.sports.gov.uk (dns0.sports.gov.uk [195.89.151.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A87714C57 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ad@fionn.sports.gov.uk) Received: from niamh.sports.gov.uk ([195.89.151.149] helo=fionn.sports.gov.uk) by fionn.sports.gov.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10hsJT-0004Br-00; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:01:59 +0000 Message-ID: <373A952C.4AFAA37C@fionn.sports.gov.uk> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:02:36 +0100 From: Andrew Doran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Youse Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Youse wrote: > Whoa ... can anyone substantiate that this poor performance is typical > or atypical of DPT SCSI RAID controllers? This is atypical, however DPT HBAs are *very* touchy about termination and cabling. For instance, with two identical (old) Seagate Hawks on a SmartCache III, I get 2MB/s reads from one and 500kB/s from the other. At a minimum each drive's write cache should be disabled with dptmgr, since it causes problems with DPT HBAs. Andy. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 2:37:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ikar.elect.ru (unknown [195.161.50.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893FE1545E; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pavel@ikar.elect.ru) Received: from localhost (pavel@localhost) by ikar.elect.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02800; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:32:53 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from pavel@ikar.elect.ru) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:32:42 +0400 (MSD) From: "Pavel V. Antipov" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-devel@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with Ethernet programming Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I encapsulated my data packet into the Ethernet packet, set the source and destination Ethernet addresses, specified the frame type (my own). Now I want to send this packet into the Ethernet network and recieve it of destination computer. Please, tell me how can i write/read the Ethernet packet. Thank you Your's sincerly Pavel E-mail:pavel@ikar.elect.ru P.S. for hackers and devel : Sorry please for my message. I posted it into the question mailing list but haven't got any help. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 5: 2:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from grisu.bik-gmbh.de (grisu.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F84C14DDB; Thu, 13 May 1999 05:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@counter.bik-gmbh.de) Received: from counter.bik-gmbh.de (counter.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.131]) by grisu.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA02988; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:02:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by counter.bik-gmbh.de (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA43679; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:58:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from cracauer) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:58:20 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Doug Rabson Cc: Brian Feldman , eagle , John-Mark Gurney , Lee Cremeans , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: G200 GLX and SIGFPU Message-ID: <19990513135820.A43622@cons.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Sat, May 08, 1999 at 10:21:34PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In , Doug Rabson wrote: >It looks like __BETTER_BDE_NPXCW__ would mask OVF, DIV0 and INV which I >think is a better default. Is there some reason other than inertia for not >changing to __BETTER_BDE_NPXCW__? The "official" reason that FreeBSD still defaults to unmasked FPEs is that the Intel architekture doesn't allow you to handle "normal" computation errors (over/undeflow, div by zero etc.) differently from "real errors" in the FPU, like a FPU stack over/underflow and completely invalid operations. If you use __BETTER_BDE_NPXCW__, you will get rid of the FPEs in bad computations and at the same time disable the ability to catch "serious" FPU errors, which may be caused by bad compilers or inline assembly (not that uncommon in scientify floating point code or X servers). In a word, if you are on Intel processor's, it's always better to make your computations in a way that you test for exceptional values that would cause FPEs prior to the computation and leave FPEs enabled. The alternative is to install a handler for SIGFPE and let that one decide whether the exception was harmless or not. This is possible using the FPE trapcode patch I sent to -current a while ago. A version for last weeks 4.0-current is available by mail. Should run on 3.x as well. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.bik-gmbh.de/~cracauer/ "Where do you want to do today?" Hard to tell running your calendar program on a junk operating system, eh? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 7:43:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F2614C57 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 07:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 806884034; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 772EC9A19 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: BSD, GPL, the world today. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been doing a little thinking on the whole Proprietary vs. GPL vs. BSD licensing issue. Stallman's wrong, Brett's wrong, Gates iswrong, hell everyobody's wrong. Now that I have your attention, let me continue. The biggest problem I see with software today, as an admin (read, bridge between users and vendors), is the refusal of vedors to take responsibilty for their products. Microsoft seems to be the biggest practitioner of this, but they didn't start it. For a free product to offer no warrnaty of suitability it perfectly understandable. For commercial software, it should be totally unacceptable. Unfortunately, it's the norm. Everyday, vendors release software that's broken in some way or other. Fine, I know there is no such thing as bug free software. The vendor's refusal to fix their product without 'buying' the upgrade is unacceptable. Again, Microsoft seems to be the biggest practitioner of this, and as the largest OS vendor on the planet, fosters it in others. How can Caldera, or Ipswitch, or Oracle guarantee their products whey then run on top of faulty software? They can't. Someone with lots of free time and money needs to go after Gates and company for failure to deliver. I don't care what the EULA reads, I don't seriously believe they can knowingly sell and refuse to fix a faulty product and get away with it anymore than GM can. Just because it doesn't result in fiery crashes doesn't make it any better (although, with MS going after the embedded systems market, even this may not be true much longer). You lost a relative due to faulty parts, I lost millions due to faulty software. Everyone lost. Everyone is losing. FreeBSD, the other BSD's, and Linux all have someone's reputation riding on them, which seems to be a deciding factor in bugs getting hammered into the ground as they get found. Commercial software offers no such public billboard as to who wrote that horrible bit of code. It's a shame really. Microsoft Tech. Support tells you to upgrade, it'll be fixed, while their fearless leader is simultaneously saying upgrades are for features, not bug fixes, and that no one would upgrade just to fix bugs. I think perhaps he is so lost to the needs of his customers and reality in general that he can no longer speak for them. Money will do that. Oh well, I suppose I'm done ranting for now. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 8: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C40F14DD0 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04116; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03550; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id LAA42450; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:00:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199905131500.LAA42450@lakes.dignus.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ragnar@sysabend.org Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually - this comes down to the argument of what the market will bear, contract law, and the legal ramifications of bugs/problems. You "bought" the software, and agreed to the license terms when you opened the box, didn't you - Caveat Emptor. As long as you keep buying it, people/companies will keep making it. And, being a software manafacturer myself (see http://www.dignus.com) - the thought of having legal responsibility for a potential problem in my software (which you've mentioned, despite anyone's best efforts, will have bugs) is very scary. I would want to pass that responsibility to the developers who wrote it, just as a bridge engineer is responsible for the bridge he designs. Then, the developers would, presumably, have to become licensed and have professional development/malpractice insurance... which ultimately drives up the price of the software. So, as everyone else, we disclaim everything up-front in our license agreement and sell our software at reasonable prices. But -hackers isn't likely the place for this... - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 8: 5:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC419151C4 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 349D94035; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 291899A1B; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:05:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: <199905131503.LAA26111@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 May 1999, Thomas David Rivers wrote: :But -hackers isn't likely the place for this... I sent a followup stating I sent it to hackers accidentally, was supposed to go to chat... Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 8:31: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030ED14F15 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04222; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400 To: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:43 AM 5/13/99 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > >I've been doing a little thinking on the whole Proprietary vs. GPL vs. BSD >licensing issue. Stallman's wrong, Brett's wrong, Gates iswrong, hell >everyobody's wrong. > >Now that I have your attention, let me continue. The biggest problem I >see with software today, as an admin (read, bridge between users and >vendors), is the refusal of vedors to take responsibilty for their >products. Microsoft seems to be the biggest practitioner of this, but >they didn't start it. Actually, you are wrong. All software has bugs, therefore it is unreasonable for consumers to assume that software that they buy has no bugs. Bugs are part of the deal. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 8:55:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322B9152C4 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id CC2174037; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8E1F9A1B; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:55:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sorry In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990513105101.0099ba00@mail.bfm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 May 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: :At 10:44 13-05-1999 -0400, you wrote: :> :>Damnit, I sent that last rant to the wrong list, it was supposed to go to :>chat. Please direct all followups to chat. :> :>Jamie Bowden : :Yeah, but you slipped your finger on this one. You Cc'd it to hakcers (k :before c), so hackers will never see it, :-) Procmail is a great thing, usually. I'll assume that I got a mailer-daemon response letting me know I typo'd, that went to /dev/null. Can those on hackers please respond to -chat? Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 9:14:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from reliam.teaser.fr (reliam.teaser.fr [194.51.80.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68E814D25 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsouch@teaser.fr) Received: from teaser.fr (ppp1087-ft.teaser.fr [194.206.156.40]) by reliam.teaser.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA05782; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:14:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from nsouch@localhost) by teaser.fr (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA00786; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:50:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nsouch) Message-ID: <19990513155056.01605@breizh.teaser.fr> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:50:56 +0200 From: Nicolas Souchu To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Randall Hopper , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bktr (brooktree device) References: <19990503220721.A7476@ipass.net> <199905040218.TAA08391@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199905040218.TAA08391@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Mon, May 03, 1999 at 07:18:07PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD breizh 4.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 03, 1999 at 07:18:07PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >HI Randall, > >Can you ask Roger to "ifdef" out the icbus stuff in the bt848 driver if an >icbus >application really needs the device then they can compile in the icbus code >in the bt848 driver for 99.999 percent of the bt848 users don't use the icbus >driver. At a later date if a process is implemented to resolv inter driver >dependencies >for static drivers such as the bt848 then we can revert back to the icbus >default >in the bt848 driver. > Since iic/smbus stuff is mostly used by bt848, ifdefing it would make it obsolete rapidly. Nicolas -- nsouch@teaser.fr / nsouch@freebsd.org FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 12:36:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.airnet.net (unknown [216.180.30.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF91314D5E for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (216.180.35.62) by alpha.airnet.net (Worldmail 1.3.167) for hackers@freebsd.org; 13 May 1999 14:36:13 -0500 Message-ID: <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:35:22 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: MB86950 Support in the works? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was wondering if any adventurous individual has looked into writing a driver for the MB86950 ethernet controller. I have quite a few cards that use this chip and would be more than willing to acid-test the driver. (Ever got 1MB/s over coax? :-)) -- Kris Kirby Home UAH CS WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. /not on the list :-/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 13:38:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BA114D68 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26893 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:35:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (curry.mchp.siemens.de [139.25.42.7]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02672 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:35:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05241 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:35:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:35:07 +0200 From: Andre Albsmeier To: Ted Faber Cc: hackers list Subject: Re: FreeBSD native xanim (was Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? ) Message-ID: <19990513223507.A86122@internal> References: <199905111850.LAA24153@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905111850.LAA24153@boreas.isi.edu>; from Ted Faber on Tue, May 11, 1999 at 11:50:04AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11-May-1999 at 11:50:04 -0700, Ted Faber wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Bill Fumerola wrote: > >How often do I see a author make a program and release _one_ FreeBSD > >binary and about 5 different binaries depending on what linux libc format > >you have. > > On a related note, I don't know if people use xanim, a movie viewer in > the ports collection, but it's recently been upgraded to support > dynamically loadable codecs. The problem is that none of the codecs > are compiled for FreeBSD, although there are three Linux versions :-). > To use them (really to use the program at all) you have to compile a > Linux version of xanim and run under emulation (which works really well, thanks > emulation guys!). > > Yes, I've tried using the Linux codecs on the FreeBSD binary. No dice. It works here with the FreeBSD binary. There are two things I have done: 1. copy the DLL's in the following order to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xanim vid_iv32_2.1_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_iv41_1.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_iv50_1.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_cvid_2.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_cyuv_1.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_h261_1.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa vid_h263_1.0_linuxELFx86c5.xa 2. run xanim through the following script (of course, you need the linuxemu). #!/bin/sh export XANIM_MOD_DIR=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xanim export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/compat/linux/lib exec xanim.bin +Aev90 +Sr +Wp +Zper +v "$@" BTW, there is a bug in the ports Makefile: --- Makefile.ORI Mon Apr 12 10:57:50 1999 +++ Makefile Mon Apr 12 10:53:29 1999 @@ -18,8 +18,8 @@ EXTRACT_ONLY= ${DISTNAME}.tar.gz USE_IMAKE= yes MAN1= xanim.1 -MAKE_ENV= XA_IV32_DEF=-DXA_INDEO \ - XA_CVID_DEF=-DXA_CINEPAK \ +MAKE_ENV= XA_IV32_DEF=-DXA_IV32 \ + XA_CVID_DEF=-DXA_CVID \ XA_CYUV_DEF=-DXA_CYUV .include -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 14:16:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1683114FFE for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA44324; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:14:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199905132114.OAA44324@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nicolas Souchu Cc: Randall Hopper , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bktr (brooktree device) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 15:50:56 +0200." <19990513155056.01605@breizh.teaser.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:14:19 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The issue is that iic/smbus stuff makes unwarrently complex to configure the bt848 driver . -- Amancio Hasty hasty@star-gate.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 14:51: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B44151C9 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id VAA77676; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:59:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:59:23 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Chuck Robey , Bob Willcox , Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990513215923.A76360@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199905110310.UAA00963@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905110310.UAA00963@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Mon, May 10, 1999 at 08:10:32PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 10, 1999 at 08:10:32PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > xls and xml are markup languages which means you need an > "engine" to render -- they do solve very nicely the document > construct , or grammar and syntax. Not strictly true. Although given the all the misinformed press hype about XML at the moment, I'm not surprised people are getting it wrong. XML is not a markup language. It's a language for describing markup languages that you want to create. Suppose you want to create "Amancio's TV Listings Language", so that fxtv (or something) can read files formatted as ATLL and let you choose what you want to watch. You would write the definition for ATLL in XML. Assuming that fxtv then had an XML parser embedded in it, fxtv could read in files formatted in ATLL (in the same way that a web browser can read in files formatted in HTML) and then do something useful with them. Your XML aware web browser could then also read in these ATLL files and do something useful with them too, *without you needing to convert them to HTML first*. This is where the XML Style Language (XSL) comes in. XML is really SGML-lite. Most of chapter 3 of http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/ is accurate for XML as well. N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 16:18:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E3C6214EF3 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 5494 invoked from network); 13 May 1999 23:18:38 -0000 Received: from nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.67) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 13 May 1999 23:18:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 6627 invoked by uid 60001); 13 May 1999 23:18:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990513231838.6626.qmail@nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.67 by nwcst067 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Thu May 13 23:18:37 GMT 1999 Date: 13 May 99 16:18:37 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: advocacy@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BUDS Coming to you soon. X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The anti-spamer is a PITA. One more time. BTW, I'll be at BAFUG tonight. Jessem. ----------------------------------------------- BUDS Coming to you soon. BUDS (BSD Unix Distributed Simple-ly) 1999-05-13 The Digital Marshalls[4] are proud to annouce the the coming of a new shared resoure for the FreeBSD development community. = BUDS, BSD Unix Distributed Simple-ly, is "general purpose" cluster system= for FreeBSD. The system uses a PC/workstation design for parallelized tas= king and distributed computing experiments. Details for BUDS are at: http://www.mozie.com/projects/buds/index.html As more information becomes available it will be announced. = In the mean time we hope that the development community will = consider the following topics for this system. o........ Deep Recursion Testing[1] o........ Permuntation Compilation of the GENERIC Kernel[2] o........ Custom Packaging of FreeBSD[3] o........ Individual Experimenting[4] Donations for this project were provided by the Digital Marshalls, DVBS (www.videotechnology.com) and Tom Sailers of Editor of = The Cheap Sheet (http://www.thesoftroute.com/humor.htm). --- [1] Deep Recursion Testing Recursive testing of known bugs and pasts bugs to test for their possible reintroduction in to the kernel tree. [2] Permuntation Compilation of the GENERIC Kernel Currently, the make for the kernel has bugs which do not allow certain parts of it to be compiled cleans. For instance, commenting out the controller 'pci0' and trying to build the kernel will provide many errors. The idea would be to compile all permutations of the GENERIC kernel so that these bugs/errors would be elminated. [3] Custom Packaging of FreeBSD The thought is to be able to provide users with custom kernel with the exact needs according to their hardware and software specifications. This could possibly be part of a commerial = project that would charge end-users a minial fee, of which a percentage would go to the FreeBSD Project. = [4] Individual Experimenting This means that any individual part of the FreeBSD community could use this project for whatever they wanted. [5] The Digital Marshalls are: Terje Oseberg, programmer extraordinare from SRI Jonathan Walters, gopher and head pipe cleaner Jesus Monroy, hack and annoying FreeBSD advocate --- IN that context, it is the BSD that should be considered, not the prefix. http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/cgi-bin/newsread?34858 ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 16:32:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBC914EA2 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA08488; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:02:03 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA66550; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:02:00 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:02:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrew Doran Cc: Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DPT performance (was: fsck and large file system) Message-ID: <19990514090159.A89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <373A952C.4AFAA37C@fionn.sports.gov.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <373A952C.4AFAA37C@fionn.sports.gov.uk>; from Andrew Doran on Thu, May 13, 1999 at 10:02:36AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 13 May 1999 at 10:02:36 +0100, Andrew Doran wrote: > Chuck Youse wrote: > >> Whoa ... can anyone substantiate that this poor performance is typical >> or atypical of DPT SCSI RAID controllers? > > This is atypical, What's typical? Have you (or anybody else) done any measurements? I'd be very interested to see other results. > however DPT HBAs are *very* touchy about termination and > cabling. For instance, with two identical (old) Seagate Hawks on a > SmartCache III, I get 2MB/s reads from one and 500kB/s from the > other. Have you analysed the reasons for this discrepancy? If you can't get rid of the problem, it's not exactly an advertisement for DPT. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 16:48:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E0514EF3 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA08544; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:27 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA66733; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Pavel V. Antipov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with Ethernet programming Message-ID: <19990514091824.C89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Pavel V. Antipov on Thu, May 13, 1999 at 01:32:42PM +0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [trimming other mailing lists] On Thursday, 13 May 1999 at 13:32:42 +0400, Pavel V. Antipov wrote: > Hi, > > I encapsulated my data packet into the Ethernet packet, > set the source and destination Ethernet addresses, specified the frame > type (my own). > Now I want to send this packet into the Ethernet network and > recieve it of destination computer. > Please, tell me how can i write/read the Ethernet packet. It's not a "do this" sort of answer. I'd recommend getting a book on network programming; Richard Stevens is particularly good. > for hackers and devel : > Sorry please for my message. I posted it into the question mailing list > but haven't got any help. -hackers is the correct list for this sort of question. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 17:11: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1179814E38 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:10:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02587; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:07:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Nik Clayton Cc: Amancio Hasty , Bob Willcox , Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? In-Reply-To: <19990513215923.A76360@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 May 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > Your XML aware web browser could then also read in these ATLL files and > do something useful with them too, *without you needing to convert them > to HTML first*. This is where the XML Style Language (XSL) comes in. > > XML is really SGML-lite. Most of chapter 3 of > > http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/ > > is accurate for XML as well. Except that XSL is not the XML Style Language. It's a somewhat open argument as to whether it's the Extensible Style language, or Extensible Stylesheet Language or Extensible Style Sheet Language, but that's as far as it's been stretched (so far). Take a look at the first paragraph at: http://www.oasis-open.org/cover/xsl.html As you can see from that, a couple of specifications have been released using the name Extensible Stylesheet Language, maybe that one will stick. There are a lot of free tools using xml and xsl out there. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 17:22:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB48914FFB for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA23554 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: <003a01be9da0$061091f0$500a0a0a@stan166> From: "Stan Shkolny" To: Subject: Q: Ensure proper struct packing Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:23:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, What is the best way to ensure that compilation of an IOCTL packet structure in both a driver and an application will generate the same offsets to structure members. Thanks, Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 17:27: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from valis.worldgate.com (valis.worldgate.com [198.161.84.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E65614FFB for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by valis.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA27781 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA25006 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:26:59 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: real time stuff Message-ID: <19990513182658.D22035@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Even though its for linux, and linux is really a different animal, has anyone who is interested in realtime stuff looked at http://www.rtlinux.org they have a whack of patches against 2.0.36 and 2.2.1. -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 17:31:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFA515331; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA91042; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Pavel V. Antipov" Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-devel@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with Ethernet programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you need to look at the bpf interface (man bpf) julian On Thu, 13 May 1999, Pavel V. Antipov wrote: > Hi, > > I encapsulated my data packet into the Ethernet packet, > set the source and destination Ethernet addresses, specified the frame > type (my own). > Now I want to send this packet into the Ethernet network and > recieve it of destination computer. > Please, tell me how can i write/read the Ethernet packet. > > Thank you > Your's sincerly > Pavel > E-mail:pavel@ikar.elect.ru > P.S. > for hackers and devel : > Sorry please for my message. I posted it into the question mailing list > but haven't got any help. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 18: 0:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B4D14FD5 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00779; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:29:13 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:29:13 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "Pavel V. Antipov" Subject: RE: Problems with Ethernet programming Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 13-May-99 Pavel V. Antipov wrote: > I encapsulated my data packet into the Ethernet packet, > set the source and destination Ethernet addresses, specified the frame > type (my own). > Now I want to send this packet into the Ethernet network and > recieve it of destination computer. > Please, tell me how can i write/read the Ethernet packet. You could try going to http://www.packetfactory.net/ which has a library called libnet which is a cross-platform way of constructing packets. I haven't actually used it, except to compile a Windows exploit (ack no, I'm a script kiddie now ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 18:52:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay05.netaddress.usa.net (relay05.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D8D915535 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 11628 invoked from network); 14 May 1999 01:52:25 -0000 Received: from nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.67) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 14 May 1999 01:52:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 20126 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 1999 01:52:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990514015225.20125.qmail@nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.67 by nwcst067 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 14 01:52:24 GMT 1999 Date: 13 May 99 18:52:24 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BUDS Coming to you soon. X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last try. If you get this three times in the hackers list please trim. Thanks Jessem. ----------------------------------------------------------------- BUDS Coming to you soon. BUDS (BSD Unix Distributed Simple-ly) 1999-05-13 The Digital Marshalls[4] are proud to annouce the the coming of a new shared resoure for the FreeBSD development community. = BUDS, BSD Unix Distributed Simple-ly, is "general purpose" cluster system= for FreeBSD. The system uses a PC/workstation design for parallelized tas= king = and distributed computing experiments. Details for BUDS are at: http://www.mozie.com/projects/buds/index.html As more information becomes available it will be announced. = In the mean time we hope that the development community will = consider the following topics for this system. o........ Deep Recursion Testing[1] o........ Permuntation Compilation of the GENERIC Kernel[2] o........ Custom Packaging of FreeBSD[3] o........ Individual Experimenting[4] Donations for this project were provided by the Digital Marshalls, DVBS (www.videotechnology.com) and Tom Sailers of Editor of = The Cheap Sheet (http://www.thesoftroute.com/humor.htm). --- [1] Deep Recursion Testing Recursive testing of known bugs and pasts bugs to test for their possible reintroduction in to the kernel tree. [2] Permuntation Compilation of the GENERIC Kernel Currently, the make for the kernel has bugs which do not allow certain parts of it to be compiled cleans. For instance, commenting out the controller 'pci0' and trying to build the kernel will provide many errors. The idea would be to compile all permutations of the GENERIC kernel so that these bugs/errors would be elminated. [3] Custom Packaging of FreeBSD The thought is to be able to provide users with custom kernel with the exact needs according to their hardware and software specifications. This could possibly be part of a commerial = project that would charge end-users a minial fee, of which a percentage would go to the FreeBSD Project. = [4] Individual Experimenting This means that any individual part of the FreeBSD community could use this project for whatever they wanted. [5] The Digital Marshalls are: Terje Oseberg, programmer extraordinare from SRI Jonathan Walters, gopher and head pipe cleaner Jesus Monroy, hack and annoying FreeBSD advocate --- IN that context, it is the BSD that should be considered, not the prefix. http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/cgi-bin/newsread?34858 ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 19: 6:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582B414BE7 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id TAA01497 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:06:19 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:06:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Lxrun In-Reply-To: <199905140106.VAA45328@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't subscribe.. so if you guys are already talking about this.. then disregard the message. Sun claims to now be able to run unmodified linux binaries using an Open Source program. I know freebsd's is supposed to be the greatest at this, but some of you may want to just review the Sun code. http://www.sun.com/linux/lxrun/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 19:24:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca (smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca [24.112.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D7014BE7 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:24:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gbuchana@home.com) Received: from cr1004936-b.slnt1.on.wave.home.com ([24.112.85.94]:1047 "EHLO localhost.on.rogers.wave.ca" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by smtp.on.rogers.wave.ca with ESMTP id <522199-18779>; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:20:45 -0400 Content-Length: 2782 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: gbuchana@home.com From: Gardner Buchanan To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 3.1R broadcast ICMP bug? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been having some problems with my Cable Internet provider and in the course of diagnosing them I've noticed what I think is a bug in 3.1R. As usual, some moron was flooding the local subnet with broadcast pings. To my horror though, I could see that my 3.1R kernel was actually answering them, despite the fact that it is set not to: # sysctl net.inet.icmp.bmcastecho net.inet.icmp.bmcastecho: 0 Here's a tcpdump: # tcpdump -nep -s 2048 icmp 21:48:24.845521 0:0:e8:76:19:98 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 0800 106: 90.0.0.1 > 255.255.255.255: icmp: echo request 21:48:24.846326 8:0:2b:94:a2:4e 0:60:5c:7d:eb:a0 0800 106: 24.112.xx.xx > 90.0.0 .1: icmp: echo reply 21:48:43.378044 0:0:e8:76:19:98 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 0800 106: 90.0.0.1 > 255.255.255.255: icmp: echo request 21:48:43.378824 8:0:2b:94:a2:4e 0:60:5c:7d:eb:a0 0800 106: 24.112.xx.xx > 90.0.0.1: icmp: echo reply 21:48:56.012685 0:e0:29:f:2b:98 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 0800 106: 24.112.130.161 > 255.255.255.255: icmp: echo request 21:48:56.013525 8:0:2b:94:a2:4e 0:60:5c:7d:eb:a0 0800 106: 24.112.xx.xx > 24.112.130.161: icmp: echo reply Netstat thinks that none of these were broadcasts: # netstat -p icmp icmp: 73 calls to icmp_error 0 errors not generated 'cuz old message was icmp Output histogram: echo reply: 6697 destination unreachable: 13 time exceeded: 60 0 messages with bad code fields 0 messages < minimum length 0 bad checksums 0 messages with bad length 0 multicast echo requests ignored 0 multicast timestamp requests ignored Input histogram: echo reply: 4 destination unreachable: 14 echo: 6697 6697 message responses generated ICMP address mask responses are disabled My Ethernet NICs are DEC DE204's using 'le': le0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 24.112.xx.xx netmask 0xfffffc00 broadcast 24.112.87.255 ether 08:00:2b:94:a2:4e le1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 192.168.0.10 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255 ether 08:00:2b:94:9e:2d le0 is the interface that's involved here. Notice the netmask. Could that have something to do with it? If I purposely do a broadcast ping on my inside network, that interface does correctly ignore the ICMP echo request and it is accounted for correctly in netstat -p icmp. I wouldn't want to alert CERT over this or anything, but I'd sure like to know how to fix it. Any ideas? ============================================================ Gardner Buchanan Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 19:31: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 83A92152C1 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15751 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:18:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:18:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: VOP_LEASE(...) or (void)VOP_LEASE(...)? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG VOP_LEASE(...) always returns 0 so there is no actual need to check its return value. But still it has a return value. So should we use (void)VOP_LEASE(...) instead of just VOP_LEASE(...)? BTW, I guess that the practice of modifying default_vnodeop_p[VOFFSET(vop_lease)] in nfs_init() is a hack. Why do not we use { &vop_lease_desc, (vop_t *) nqnfs_vop_lease_check }, instead of { &vop_lease_desc, (vop_t *) vop_null }, in nfsv2_vnodeop_entries[] in file nfs_vnops.c? Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 13 21:34:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079DE15435 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA97588; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:34:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:34:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905140434.VAA97588@apollo.backplane.com> To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VOP_LEASE(...) or (void)VOP_LEASE(...)? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :VOP_LEASE(...) always returns 0 so there is no actual need to check its :return value. But still it has a return value. So should we use :(void)VOP_LEASE(...) instead of just VOP_LEASE(...)? I think we should leave it an int. It may not always return 0 in the future. :BTW, I guess that the practice of modifying :default_vnodeop_p[VOFFSET(vop_lease)] in nfs_init() is a hack. Why do not :we use : : { &vop_lease_desc, (vop_t *) nqnfs_vop_lease_check }, : :instead of : : { &vop_lease_desc, (vop_t *) vop_null }, : :in nfsv2_vnodeop_entries[] in file nfs_vnops.c? : :Thanks for any help. I think the hack is in there in order to optimize code exclusion when NFS_NOSERVER is set. This is one of those "if it aint broke, don't fix it" situations. I know it's ugly, but the only things we should be patching into the NFS code right now are bug fixes. -Matt Matthew Dillon :-------------------------------------------------- :Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org :-------------------------------------------------- : : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 1:51:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6A514EA4 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 01:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10351; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:49:02 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 10340; Fri May 14 10:48:30 1999 Message-ID: <373BE3F7.194DEB3A@cdsec.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:51:03 +0200 From: Graham Wheeler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pavel V. Antipov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with Ethernet programming References: <19990514091824.C89091@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thursday, 13 May 1999 at 13:32:42 +0400, Pavel V. Antipov wrote: > > Now I want to send this packet into the Ethernet network and > > recieve it of destination computer. > > Please, tell me how can i write/read the Ethernet packet. Use the bpf device. You may have to recompile the kernels to support this. If you want to look at source code, try nmap (I think it uses a modified libpcap on top of BPF, but it will still show you how to do this kind of stuff). -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)423-6065/6/7 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 2:12:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF4315431 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 02:12:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Received: from phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no ([IPv6:::ffff:129.241.210.108]:60573 "EHLO phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no" ident: "roart") by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49258-3942>; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:12:22 +0200 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:12:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: large master.passwd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. The pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. I suspect it has something to do with the machines being reset etc before the sync is finished. (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of users around.) I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. So how usable is this patch? Worth intregrating? Regards, Roar Thronæs --- ../../3.1-RELEASE/src/usr.sbin/pwd_mkdb/pwd_mkdb.c Tue Apr 20 09:52:58 1999 +++ pwd_mkdb.c Tue Apr 20 11:07:53 1999 @@ -71,7 +71,7 @@ 4096, /* bsize */ 32, /* ffactor */ 256, /* nelem */ - 2048 * 1024, /* cachesize */ + 8192 * 1024, /* cachesize */ NULL, /* hash() */ 0 /* lorder */ }; @@ -457,6 +457,10 @@ /* Set master.passwd permissions, in case caller forgot. */ (void)fchmod(fileno(fp), S_IRUSR|S_IWUSR); + /* sync may be wise + -roart */ + sync(); + /* Install as the real password files. */ (void)snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%s/%s.tmp", prefix, _MP_DB); (void)snprintf(buf2, sizeof(buf2), "%s/%s", prefix, _MP_DB); @@ -477,6 +481,10 @@ */ (void)snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%s/%s", prefix, _MASTERPASSWD); mv(pname, buf); + + /* sync may be wise + -roart */ + sync(); /* * Close locked password file after rename() To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 5:17:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8836615372 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 05:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@acl.lanl.gov) Received: from localhost (rminnich@localhost) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA691829 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:17:11 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: superblock corruption Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG apropos the recent discussion on superblocks and whether they ever get corrupted, I just got a call from a friend. One of his cluster nodes had power-failed at a bad time, and fsck was indicating a superblock corruption problem. I told him about -b 32, which he had never had to use in four years of running a large cluster. This problem was so new to him that he in fact had never heard of the -b switch or the backup superblocks. He couldn't affort to lose what he had on this node, as he was in the middle of changing something and had not had a chance to back it up to a server. Backup superblocks are still a good idea, even when you only need them every few years. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 5:40:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB15F15583 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 05:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA42759; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:40:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kelly Yancey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 14:40:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kelly Yancey's message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 17:50:44 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kelly Yancey writes: > Hmm. I sent this message a few days ago and it has been silently ignored. > Should I consider that an OK to extern the get_mode_param function in > vga_isa.c? Or should I take that as a mass "go ahead, we're not going to > commit the code anyway?" :( Hmm, well, I don't like to say "go ahead, we're not going to commit the code anyway", but I can't see the use of adding Mode X support - I feel that the gain in functionality is too small to justify the added complexity. You'll need to add bits to the video_info structure to describe the encoding. AFAIK, the current model can only describe linear and plane-per-channel encodings accurately, whereas Mode X uses a weird interlaced encoding. The designers of the VGA chipset ought to be taken out and shot. You'll need to hack everything that hooks into syscons but doesn't explicitly set the video mode to check for Mode X so they won't shoot themselves in the foot trying to address it as a linear mode. To summarize, it seems like a lot of trouble just to get 40 additional scanlines and square pixels on obsolete hardware - anything that doesn't support 'options VESA' was already obsolete five years ago. It's not going to make FreeBSD a better desktop OS (desktop users use X, not syscons) and its' not going to make FreeBSD a better server OS (no, a prettier splash screen does not make your server faster). OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind adding support for Mode Q :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 5:44:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE6614E77 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 05:44:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA42788; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:44:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jim Carroll Subject: Re: fsck and large file system References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 14:44:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Mark J. Taylor"'s message of "Wed, 12 May 1999 15:18:22 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Mark J. Taylor" writes: > The problem that we ran into in a system with several 130 MB RAID5 arrays > is that the fsck was running out of RAM+swap. We had to add a vnode to swap > to before the fsck would complete (basically added more swap space). > We had to have over 100 MB swap space to fsck the 130 MB volume, and the > system has 64 MB RAM. This was is 2.2.8 (haven't upgraded it yet). I *really* hope you meant 130 GB and not 130 MB :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 6:30:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C2414D84 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ugen@xonix.com) Received: from umka.undp.org (umka.undp.org [192.124.42.40]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.3) with ESMTP id JAA26449 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org ([192.168.69.4]) by umka.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6855 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:30:16 -0400 Received: from xonix.com ([207.252.136.30]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA35D1 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:27:43 -0400 Message-ID: <373BED99.DA4FF4C1@xonix.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:32:10 +0000 From: Ugen Antsilevitch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-19990407-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: SYN floods against FreeBSD] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C9093E3CB3F7EABCE07FECA1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C9093E3CB3F7EABCE07FECA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well..this is just something i picked off BugTraq..worths looking into? If it's old news - pardon me... --Ugen --------------C9093E3CB3F7EABCE07FECA1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from umka.undp.org ([192.168.69.1]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAZ5B3B; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:15:24 -0400 Received: from nygate.undp.org ([192.124.42.3]) by umka.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4C8F; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:15:21 -0400 Received: from brimstone.netspace.org (brimstone.netspace.org [128.148.157.143]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.3) with ESMTP id SAA20304; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netspace.org ([128.148.157.6]:3424 "EHLO netspace.org" ident: "TIMEDOUT2") by brimstone.netspace.org with ESMTP id <47249-24199>; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:36:39 -0400 Received: from NETSPACE.ORG by NETSPACE.ORG (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 865650 for BUGTRAQ@NETSPACE.ORG; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:34:58 +0000 Approved-By: aleph1@UNDERGROUND.ORG Received: from puffer.quadrunner.com (humble@puffer.quadrunner.com [205.166.195.4]) by netspace.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19748 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:33:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (humble@localhost) by puffer.quadrunner.com (8.9.2/QUAD-2.1) with ESMTP id LAA25414 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:35:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: puffer.quadrunner.com: humble owned process doing -bs X-Sender: humble@puffer.quadrunner.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1496513341-362697548-926620543=:25123" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: Richard Steenbergen Sender: Bugtraq List From: Richard Steenbergen Subject: SYN floods against FreeBSD To: BUGTRAQ@netspace.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1496513341-362697548-926620543=:25123 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's a quickie for the people who have been plagued with high bandwidth syn flood attacks, a kernel patch for FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE which rate limits SYN processing. Its messy but functional and I don't have time to make it better (thats the fbsd developers job, not mine :P), cd /usr/src/sys, patch < synlim, add "options SYN_RATELIM" (I highly recommend ICMP_BANDLIM as well) to your kernel, recompile, and sysctl net.inet.tcp.synlim will be available (default to 100). This is the maximium number of SYNs per second that will be processed, the rest will be silently discarded. On my test system (P2 450 running 3.1-stable being hit w/15,000 packets per sec), this has successfully brought CPU usage from 100% to ~20% (against an open port which is replying with unacknowledged ACKs). Which brings us to the more sticky topic of kernel panics when under SYN flood (which I believe to be the cause of some earlier posts from certain people at Exodus Communications *cough*). Lord knows I found enough of them when doing this testing, but the one that seems to be the biggie for crashing when under syn flood is as follows (heh just turned off the synlim and panic'd within 8 seconds while writing this): panic: free: multiple frees (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xc0138c09 in panic (fmt=0xc02192b7 "free: multiple frees") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xc0135aaf in free (addr=0xc0cdd600, type=0xc0239330) at ../../kern/kern_malloc.c:333 #3 0xc01768f4 in ifafree (ifa=0xc0cdd600) at ../../net/route.c:262 #4 0xc0176876 in rtfree (rt=0xc34ce700) at ../../net/route.c:236 #5 0xc0176c84 in rtrequest (req=2, dst=0xc34cbac0, gateway=0xc34cbad0, netmask=0x0, flags=393223, ret_nrt=0x0) at ../../net/route.c:536 #6 0xc017b34d in in_rtqkill (rn=0xc34ce700, rock=0xc0231610) at ../../netinet/in_rmx.c:242 #7 0xc0176064 in rn_walktree (h=0xc0cd9e00, f=0xc017b2fc , w=0xc0231610) at ../../net/radix.c:956 #8 0xc017b3ec in in_rtqtimo (rock=0xc0cd9e00) at ../../netinet/in_rmx.c:283 #9 0xc013d19b in softclock () at ../../kern/kern_timeout.c:124 Which after a quick examination seems to be a perioditic routing table cleanup. It seems that in_rtqtimo is scheduled to run every net.inet.ip.rtexpire seconds (which is dynamicly adjusted and can never go lower then net.inet.ip.rtminexpire). When the system is under heavy load from processing lots of small packets (they don't even have to be SYNs, anything which can get routed will do the trick, though the packet kiddies would get very little gain from just sending an ip header since its going to be padded to 64 bytes for the eth frame anyhow), this route cleanup code will go wacking at routes it shouldn't and free some memory twice. In the course of testing I've gotten my rtq_reallyold to -3 and seen lots of "tvotohz: negative time difference -2 sec 0 usec". Perhaps someone with free time or more specific knowledge of this area would like to FIX IT? =) Perhaps when I get more free time I'll test some other *nix's. I would really recommend putting all this rate limiting code at an ipfw level. If you would like to contact me regarding this please use humble@quadrunner.com (at least if you want a quick reply), thanks. -- Richard Steenbergen humble@EFNet PGP ID: 0x741D0374 PGP Key Fingerprint: C6EF EFA0 83B2 071F 1AB6 B879 1F70 4303 741D 0374 http://users.quadrunner.com/humble ---1496513341-362697548-926620543=:25123 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=synlim Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: SYN rate limit patch for fbsd 3.1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=synlim KioqIGNvbmYvb3B0aW9ucy5vbGQJU2F0IE1heSAxNSAyMzowODowMyAxOTk5 DQotLS0gY29uZi9vcHRpb25zCVNhdCBNYXkgMTUgMjM6NDA6MjEgMTk5OQ0K KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqDQoqKiogNjgsNzMgKioqKg0KLS0tIDY4LDc0IC0t LS0NCiAgU1lTVlNITQkJb3B0X3N5c3ZpcGMuaA0KICBVQ09OU09MRQ0KICBJ Q01QX0JBTkRMSU0NCisgU1lOX1JBVEVMSU0NCiAgDQogICMgUE9TSVgga2Vy bmVsIG9wdGlvbnMNCiAgUDEwMDNfMUIJb3B0X3Bvc2l4LmgNCioqKiBuZXRp bmV0L3RjcF92YXIuaC5vbGQJU2F0IE1heSAxNSAyMzoyNTozOSAxOTk5DQot 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the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 6:32:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED2A1502F for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id JAA53000; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:45:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Kelly Yancey writes: > > Hmm. I sent this message a few days ago and it has been silently ignored. > > Should I consider that an OK to extern the get_mode_param function in > > vga_isa.c? Or should I take that as a mass "go ahead, we're not going to > > commit the code anyway?" :( > > Hmm, well, I don't like to say "go ahead, we're not going to commit > the code anyway", but I can't see the use of adding Mode X support - I > feel that the gain in functionality is too small to justify the added > complexity. You'll need to add bits to the video_info structure to > describe the encoding. AFAIK, the current model can only describe > linear and plane-per-channel encodings accurately, whereas Mode X uses > a weird interlaced encoding. The designers of the VGA chipset ought to > be taken out and shot. You'll need to hack everything that hooks into > syscons but doesn't explicitly set the video mode to check for Mode X > so they won't shoot themselves in the foot trying to address it as a > linear mode. > > To summarize, it seems like a lot of trouble just to get 40 additional > scanlines and square pixels on obsolete hardware - anything that > doesn't support 'options VESA' was already obsolete five years ago. > It's not going to make FreeBSD a better desktop OS (desktop users use > X, not syscons) and its' not going to make FreeBSD a better server OS > (no, a prettier splash screen does not make your server faster). Shot definately :) You have a lot of good points. What really confuses me, I guess, is that support for 320x240 modex is already in there. I've poked around with it a bit when adding the other modes and noticed that it doesn't do anything but set the mode. I guess we are already in the boat of having a problem with people being able to shoot themselves in the foot :( My guess as to the logic is that if you set the mode to 320x240, you better expect to the interlacing. What I don't get is how the memory is presented to apps using the driver. The best I could think of would be to present it a 256k linear frame buffer with the pixels in order (ie writes to consecutive pixels would result in the driver switching planes), and while that would present a consistent interface, it would be *really* slow (if it is even possible). The next best thing would be to present it a 256k linear frame buffer but with each plane 64k after the previous. Applications would have to be aware of the layout (ie. know that modex modes aren't linear) because writes to consecutive memory addresses would result in changing every 4th pixel. This is the method I would assume must already be in place for the existing 320x240 mode, but I can't find it. Which means that at the moment 320x240 is useless? Really, I was thinking that this would be a "neat" thing to add. I could have some higher resolution video modes without needing VESA (and VM86). But you make a good point in that anyone who wants graphics uses X. I guess I was thinking that maybe the additional modes would be of use should FreeBSD ever really get an equivalent to libsvga. Anyway, as you point out, then the modes are really only of use to splash screens (which is a minor feature in and of itself). So the question becomes, is there any interest in adding 6 mode "tweaked" modes (in addition to the existing 320x240) or should we reduce complexity and remove the 320x240 mode because surely nothing can be using it (you can only write to every 4th pixel right now). > > OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind > adding support for Mode Q :) Mode Q? I'm not familiar with that one. Presumably a less-than-320x200 resolution? Kelly Yancey ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7: 5: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CF461509E for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA42984; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:05:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kelly Yancey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 16:05:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kelly Yancey's message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 09:45:23 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 70 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kelly Yancey writes: > What I don't get is how the memory is presented to apps using the > driver. The best I could think of would be to present it a 256k linear > frame buffer with the pixels in order (ie writes to consecutive pixels > would result in the driver switching planes), and while that would present > a consistent interface, it would be *really* slow (if it is even > possible). Yes, it's possible, but it requires a page fault on *every* write to video memory. YA case of 'possible, but not practical'. (this technique has been used to simulate a linear frame buffer when using paged modes, but I haven't yet succeeded in convincing Kazu to implement it in the VESA driver and I don't have the time or know-how to do it myself) > The next best thing would be to present it a 256k linear frame > buffer but with each plane 64k after the previous. Applications would > have to be aware of the layout (ie. know that modex modes aren't linear) > because writes to consecutive memory addresses would result in changing > every 4th pixel. This is the method I would assume must already be in > place for the existing 320x240 mode, but I can't find it. Which means that > at the moment 320x240 is useless? Yes, if it's there at all you have to switch banks "manually". > Really, I was thinking that this would be a "neat" thing to add. I could > have some higher resolution video modes without needing VESA (and VM86). The VESA code is very small, and you want VM86 anyway (amongst other things, for reliable memory detection) > But you make a good point in that anyone who wants graphics uses X. I > guess I was thinking that maybe the additional modes would be of use > should FreeBSD ever really get an equivalent to libsvga. We already have that (libvgl), though it's in deperate need of maintenance. > Anyway, as you point out, then the modes are really only of use to > splash screens (which is a minor feature in and of itself). So the > question becomes, is there any interest in adding 6 mode "tweaked" modes > (in addition to the existing 320x240) or should we reduce complexity and > remove the 320x240 mode because surely nothing can be using it (you can > only write to every 4th pixel right now). I vote for the latter. > > OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind > > adding support for Mode Q :) > Mode Q? I'm not familiar with that one. Presumably a less-than-320x200 > resolution? No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) If you have time and talent to spare and want to work on the console code, I have two suggestions for useful additions: - modify syscons so userland software can mmap the frame buffer, and whatever other modifications are necessary to make it possible for userland software to use graphics without needing write access to /dev/kmem (currently, the only way to mmap the frame buffer is to map in the correct address range from /dev/kmem) - port GGI to FreeBSD. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:18:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FDB714C2D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18747; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:41 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Roar Thron?s Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: large master.passwd Message-ID: <19990514091840.A18547@dan.emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from "Roar Thron?s" on Fri May 14 11:12:18 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 14), Roar Thron?s said: > On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not > trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. The > pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. > > Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. I suspect it has something to > do with the machines being reset etc before the sync is finished. > (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of users around.) > > I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. > > So how usable is this patch? > Worth intregrating? > - 2048 * 1024, /* cachesize */ > + 8192 * 1024, /* cachesize */ Cachsize is already adjustable via the -s commandline switch. > + /* sync may be wise > + -roart */ > + sync(); How about an fsync() of only that file? (I don't remember whether fsync flushes metadata though) -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:34:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E931500B for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from localhost (cyouse@localhost) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03309 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:32:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.cybersites.com: cyouse owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Youse To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 1GB, kvm issues. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's been noted on several occasions that with large (> 256MB) of RAM, one has to be "careful" with the configuration (NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS) to prevent the box from falling over every few days due to kvm problems. Can somebody be more specific? I'm just about to order a really, really expensive machine and I want to be sure I can get it to work .. :) Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:39:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0206114E66 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id KAA64730; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > We already have that (libvgl), though it's in deperate need of > maintenance. That what I meant by "equivalent" ;) > > > Anyway, as you point out, then the modes are really only of use to > > splash screens (which is a minor feature in and of itself). So the > > question becomes, is there any interest in adding 6 mode "tweaked" modes > > (in addition to the existing 320x240) or should we reduce complexity and > > remove the 320x240 mode because surely nothing can be using it (you can > > only write to every 4th pixel right now). > > I vote for the latter. I'm starting to think that this is the Right Thing also. But then again, where is the line? I think removing the interlaced mode x modes might make sense...but why have any video modes outside of X? Just because we can? Does anything use libvgl? > > > > OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind > > > adding support for Mode Q :) > > Mode Q? I'm not familiar with that one. Presumably a less-than-320x200 > > resolution? > > No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the > frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) > Yeah, I've seen the DOS port of snes9x use that. I don't think it has truely square pixels though since the screen has a 4:3 aspect ratio and the resolution is 1:1...the pixels should look slightly wider than they are tall. But it is linear :) The question is...is it worth including? I just did a quick search on the net and found the register programming information for this one (256x256x256) and another interesting linear mode (296x220x256) which has almost square pixels and a slightly higher resolution. Finally, would there be any interest in 720x480x16 color VGA mode. I have some old code which does this fine and have seen several other references to it in my search for mode Q. This goes along with the question of where the line is before a video mode becomes useless. And if the verdict is that the extra video modes (so long as they are planar) are useful, then how about some tweaked text modes? We have support for a number of different rows, but I have some old patches (which need updating) for extending the number of text mode columns from 80 to 90. BTW, the extra advantage of 90 column text modes is that syscons mouse pointer doesn't suffer from the weird character cell wrapping which causes the mouse pointer to stretch by 1 pixel when it cross character cell boundaries (since each character cell in 90 column mode is 8 pixels wide not 9). > If you have time and talent to spare and want to work on the console > code, I have two suggestions for useful additions: > > - modify syscons so userland software can mmap the frame buffer, and > whatever other modifications are necessary to make it possible for > userland software to use graphics without needing write access to > /dev/kmem (currently, the only way to mmap the frame buffer is to > map in the correct address range from /dev/kmem) > I would like to do this. But unfortunately, I am currently mostly lacking the talent :) However, I just received The Design and Implementation of 4.4 BSD so as soon as I feel I really understand how mmap'ing is implemented, I might take a whack at it. > - port GGI to FreeBSD. I thought this had been discussed and shot down? Kelly Yancey ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:54:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC5A14F43 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA50715; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Kelly Yancey writes: > > What I don't get is how the memory is presented to apps using the > > driver. The best I could think of would be to present it a 256k linear > > frame buffer with the pixels in order (ie writes to consecutive pixels > > would result in the driver switching planes), and while that would present > > a consistent interface, it would be *really* slow (if it is even > > possible). > > Yes, it's possible, but it requires a page fault on *every* write to > video memory. YA case of 'possible, but not practical'. > > (this technique has been used to simulate a linear frame buffer when > using paged modes, but I haven't yet succeeded in convincing Kazu to > implement it in the VESA driver and I don't have the time or know-how > to do it myself) > > > The next best thing would be to present it a 256k linear frame > > buffer but with each plane 64k after the previous. Applications would > > have to be aware of the layout (ie. know that modex modes aren't linear) > > because writes to consecutive memory addresses would result in changing > > every 4th pixel. This is the method I would assume must already be in > > place for the existing 320x240 mode, but I can't find it. Which means that > > at the moment 320x240 is useless? > > Yes, if it's there at all you have to switch banks "manually". > > > Really, I was thinking that this would be a "neat" thing to add. I could > > have some higher resolution video modes without needing VESA (and VM86). > > The VESA code is very small, and you want VM86 anyway (amongst other > things, for reliable memory detection) > > > But you make a good point in that anyone who wants graphics uses X. I > > guess I was thinking that maybe the additional modes would be of use > > should FreeBSD ever really get an equivalent to libsvga. > > We already have that (libvgl), though it's in deperate need of > maintenance. > > > Anyway, as you point out, then the modes are really only of use to > > splash screens (which is a minor feature in and of itself). So the > > question becomes, is there any interest in adding 6 mode "tweaked" modes > > (in addition to the existing 320x240) or should we reduce complexity and > > remove the 320x240 mode because surely nothing can be using it (you can > > only write to every 4th pixel right now). > > I vote for the latter. > > > > OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind > > > adding support for Mode Q :) > > Mode Q? I'm not familiar with that one. Presumably a less-than-320x200 > > resolution? > > No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the > frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) > > If you have time and talent to spare and want to work on the console > code, I have two suggestions for useful additions: > > - modify syscons so userland software can mmap the frame buffer, and > whatever other modifications are necessary to make it possible for > userland software to use graphics without needing write access to > /dev/kmem (currently, the only way to mmap the frame buffer is to > map in the correct address range from /dev/kmem) > Kazu finishing his fb(4) would be quite nice, if he has the time. > - port GGI to FreeBSD. Huh? It works for me... GGI is just the API/wrapper, and it allows output to (most useful now) X and XF86DGA (many, many more of course,, and a FreeBSD fb(4) would be cool.). > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:57:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C35F150E5 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23614; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905141456.KAA23614@cs.rpi.edu> To: Chuck Youse Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 1GB, kvm issues. In-Reply-To: Message from Chuck Youse of "Fri, 14 May 1999 09:32:41 EDT." Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:56:59 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It's been noted on several occasions that with large (> 256MB) of RAM, one > has to be "careful" with the configuration (NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS) to > prevent the box from falling over every few days due to kvm problems. > > Can somebody be more specific? I'm just about to order a really, really > expensive machine and I want to be sure I can get it to work .. :) > > Chuck Youse This was fixed somewhere in the 3.1-STABLE branch, you will not need to worry about this at all with 3.2-BETA/3.2-RELEASE. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 7:58: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A129150E5 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA43189; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:57:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kelly Yancey Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 16:57:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kelly Yancey's message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 35 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kelly Yancey writes: > On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the > > frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) > Yeah, I've seen the DOS port of snes9x use that. I don't think it has > truely square pixels though since the screen has a 4:3 aspect ratio and > the resolution is 1:1...the pixels should look slightly wider than they > are tall. Most monitors display Mode Q with wide black margins. > But it is linear :) The question is...is it worth including? I just did > a quick search on the net and found the register programming information > for this one (256x256x256) and another interesting linear mode > (296x220x256) which has almost square pixels and a slightly higher > resolution. Umm, no, 296x220 is smaller than 256x256. > And if the verdict is that the extra video modes (so long as they are > planar) are useful, then how about some tweaked text modes? We have > support for a number of different rows, but I have some old patches (which > need updating) for extending the number of text mode columns from 80 to > 90. Yah. If you can make it work, I'm all for it. > > - port GGI to FreeBSD. > I thought this had been discussed and shot down? If it has, I didn't see it :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 8:13:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7625615427 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:13:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA43267; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:13:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Chuck Youse Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1GB, kvm issues. References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 17:13:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: Chuck Youse's message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 09:32:41 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Youse writes: > It's been noted on several occasions that with large (> 256MB) of RAM, one > has to be "careful" with the configuration (NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS) to > prevent the box from falling over every few days due to kvm problems. It's not a problem as long as your kernel address space is large enough. The default in -CURRENT and recent versions -STABLE is 1 GB, which should be enough for most (if not all) uses. The default for 3.1-RELEASE and -STABLE up to mid-April is 256 MB. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 8:16:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [207.244.223.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE101511B for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:16:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id LAA65651; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Kelly Yancey writes: > > On 14 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the > > > frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) > > Yeah, I've seen the DOS port of snes9x use that. I don't think it has > > truely square pixels though since the screen has a 4:3 aspect ratio and > > the resolution is 1:1...the pixels should look slightly wider than they > > are tall. > > Most monitors display Mode Q with wide black margins. > > > But it is linear :) The question is...is it worth including? I just did > > a quick search on the net and found the register programming information > > for this one (256x256x256) and another interesting linear mode > > (296x220x256) which has almost square pixels and a slightly higher > > resolution. > > Umm, no, 296x220 is smaller than 256x256. My bad...416 pixels smaller > > > And if the verdict is that the extra video modes (so long as they are > > planar) are useful, then how about some tweaked text modes? We have > > support for a number of different rows, but I have some old patches (which > > need updating) for extending the number of text mode columns from 80 to > > 90. > > Yah. If you can make it work, I'm all for it. I used to use it myself on 2.2.7 and 2.2.8. I actually had submitted a PR way back when with the patches (PR/7510). They definately work...unfortunatly syscons has changed a bit since then so I'll have to whip up a new set of patches. BTW, the URL listed in that PR no longer has the old patches, someone can just close it (it's way out of date now anyway). Kelly Yancey ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 8:25:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [195.248.96.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7357A1511B for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from damian@cablenet.net) Received: from cablenet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with ESMTP id QAA12771 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:20:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:20:32 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dlopen failure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a program that is dumping core. ----------------------------------------------- Here's the gdb output; Program terminated with signal 6, Abort trap. #0 0x800b728 in _kill () (gdb) bt #0 0x800b728 in _kill () #1 0x800b34c in abort () #2 0x8004aa2 in __assert () #3 0x8003b4b in map_object () #4 0x8002e9e in find_symdef () #5 0x800334d in dlopen () #6 0x8049a68 in Get_SQL_Driver (name=0x804c7e4 "mysql") at Vdb.c:150 #7 0x8049ff9 in GetDefaultDriver () at Vdb.c:254 #8 0x804a141 in VdbInit (user=0x804bfb1 "nobody", passwd=0x0) at Vdb.c:329 #9 0x8049316 in main () #10 0x8048be5 in _start () ----------------------------------------------------- here's the output in the logfile identifying the assert failure; May 14 16:11:26 venus qmail: 926694686.764722 delivery 21: deferral: assertion_"u.hdr.e_phentsize_==_sizeof(Elf_Phdr)"_failed:_file_"/usr/src/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c",_line_118/Abort_trap_-_core_dumped/ May 14 16:11:26 venus qmail: 926694686.764952 status: local 4/10 remote 0/20 --------------------------------------------------------- here's my system; FreeBSD venus.cablenet.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #1: Tue Apr 27 11:44:21 BST 1999 root@server.cablenet.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/SERVER i386 and # cat /etc/objformat OBJFORMAT=elf --------------------------------------------------------- and here's the ld line for the shared object I am loading; ld -Bshareable -o $@ $< -u _floor ../../lib/libV.a /usr/local/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a /usr/lib/libm.a --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know why I am getting this error ? MTIA regards damian * Damian Hamill M.D. damian@cablenet.net * CableNet & The Landscape Channel * http://www.cablenet.net/ http://www.landscapetv.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 8:34:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3713B14D10 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:34:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@phc.igs.net) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31582; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:32:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eagle@phc.igs.net) X-Authentication-Warning: eagle.phc.igs.net: eagle owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:32:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Garrett To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Chuck Youse , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1GB, kvm issues. In-Reply-To: <199905141456.KAA23614@cs.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 May 1999, David E. Cross wrote: > > It's been noted on several occasions that with large (> 256MB) of RAM, one > > has to be "careful" with the configuration (NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS) to > > prevent the box from falling over every few days due to kvm problems. > > > > Can somebody be more specific? I'm just about to order a really, really > > expensive machine and I want to be sure I can get it to work .. :) > > > > Chuck Youse > > This was fixed somewhere in the 3.1-STABLE branch, you will not need to worry > about this at all with 3.2-BETA/3.2-RELEASE. > I thought so as well, however I added a 64 meg dimm and ran into the same problems he is describing. After I remembered the problem. I lowered the value of maxusers and everything is back to normal. This is on 4.0 - Current. btw.. 1 - 128 meg dimm 1 - 64 meg dimm and for the record 750 meg of swap space rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 8:56:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1AF814C3D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:56:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24677; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905141555.LAA24677@cs.rpi.edu> To: Rob Garrett Cc: "David E. Cross" , Chuck Youse , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 1GB, kvm issues. In-Reply-To: Message from Rob Garrett of "Fri, 14 May 1999 10:32:23 EDT." Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:55:49 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > has to be "careful" with the configuration (NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS) to > > > prevent the box from falling over every few days due to kvm problems. > > > > > > Can somebody be more specific? I'm just about to order a really, really > > > expensive machine and I want to be sure I can get it to work .. :) > > > > > > Chuck Youse > > > > This was fixed somewhere in the 3.1-STABLE branch, you will not need to worry > > about this at all with 3.2-BETA/3.2-RELEASE. > > > I thought so as well, however I added a 64 meg dimm and ran into the same > problems he is describing. After I remembered the problem. I lowered the > value of maxusers and everything is back to normal. This is on 4.0 - >> Current. btw.. >> > 1 - 128 meg dimm > 1 - 64 meg dimm > > and for the record > > 750 meg of swap space Well, this is my current config: Dual P2-400, 256M RAM, 256M SWAP, 3.2-BETA, maxusers 256. I have yet to have any wierdness. Note we also run servers based off of the late 3.1-STABLE branch and we *used* to see KVA problems all of the time. For awhile we rolled in the KVA patches by hand, but since the change was MFCed we have not done that and have made 0 patches and everything continues to work great. I am 99.99999999% positive that the changes were made to -current (I know I saw the CVS logs go through on our mirror) I am also 99.99% sur -STABLE is patched too... If not we should really take care of that now. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 9:12:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0946714CEF for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id TAA56204; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:06:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:06:32 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Rob Garrett , Chuck Youse , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1GB, kvm issues. Message-ID: <19990514190632.A54846@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: "David E. Cross" , Rob Garrett , Chuck Youse , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199905141555.LAA24677@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905141555.LAA24677@cs.rpi.edu>; from David E. Cross on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 11:55:49AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 11:55:49AM -0400, David E. Cross wrote: > > Well, this is my current config: Dual P2-400, 256M RAM, 256M SWAP, 3.2-BETA, > maxusers 256. I have yet to have any wierdness. Note we also run servers > based off of the late 3.1-STABLE branch and we *used* to see KVA problems > all of the time. For awhile we rolled in the KVA patches by hand, but since > the change was MFCed we have not done that and have made 0 patches and > everything continues to work great. > > I am 99.99999999% positive that the changes were made to -current > (I know I saw the CVS logs go through on our mirror) I am also 99.99% sur > -STABLE is patched too... If not we should really take care of that now. > Then add my 0.00000001% ;-) dg 1999/03/11 10:28:47 PST Modified files: sys/i386/conf Makefile.i386 kernel.script sys/i386/include pmap.h Log: Increased kernel virtual address space to 1GB. NOTE: You MUST have fixed bootblocks in order to boot the kernel after this! Also note that this change breaks BSDI BSD/OS compatibility. Also increased default NKPT to 17 so that FreeBSD can boot on machines with >=2GB of RAM. Booting on machines with exactly 4GB requires other patches, not included. Revision Changes Path 1.141 +2 -2 src/sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 1.2 +1 -1 src/sys/i386/conf/kernel.script 1.59 +4 -4 src/sys/i386/include/pmap.h des 1999/04/25 05:44:06 PDT Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_3) sys/i386/conf Makefile.i386 kernel.script sys/i386/include pmap.h Log: MFC: increase kvm size to 1 GB. Revision Changes Path 1.136.2.5 +2 -2 src/sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 1.1.2.1 +1 -1 src/sys/i386/conf/kernel.script 1.57.2.1 +3 -3 src/sys/i386/include/pmap.h Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 9:18:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com (imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com [194.196.205.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCED15117 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Steve.Gailey@db.com) Received: from bmr2-e1.srv.uk.deuba.com by imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com id RAA25955; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:18:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from pow.srv.uk.deuba.com by bmr2-e1.srv.uk.deuba.com id RAA12005; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:18:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from dmglon010020773 by pow.srv.uk.deuba.com id RAA03237; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:18:13 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199905141618.RAA03237@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> From: "Steve Gailey" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:15:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ifconfig: changing mac address Reply-To: Steve.Gailey@db.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys, Does anyone know... Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using ifconfig? Does this depend upon the ioctls supported by the specific driver? Thanks. Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10: 6: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A51C14D7D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA43586; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:05:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kris Kirby Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MB86950 Support in the works? References: <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 1999 19:05:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kris Kirby's message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 14:35:22 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kirby writes: > I was wondering if any adventurous individual has looked into writing a > driver for the MB86950 ethernet controller. I have quite a few cards > that use this chip and would be more than willing to acid-test the > driver. (Ever got 1MB/s over coax? :-)) Yes, I've experienced sustained transfer rates in excess of 1 MBps on a 10Base2 network, with FreeBSD 3.1 using an SMC based Kingston EtherX (ISA PnP NE2000 clone thingamabob) in one end and a nondescript Linux box in the other end. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10: 9:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B2D14D34 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19138; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA11624; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:09:17 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:09:17 -0600 Message-Id: <199905141709.LAA11624@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damian Hamill Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dlopen failure In-Reply-To: <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net> References: <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > --------------------------------------------------------- > and here's the ld line for the shared object I am loading; > > ld -Bshareable -o $@ $< -u _floor ../../lib/libV.a > /usr/local/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a /usr/lib/libm.a This is probably unrelated to the bug (but it might be related). Are the object files libV.a and libmsqlclient.a compiled -fPIC? I know libm.a isn't, so the library work as a shared library. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10:11:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6B014D34 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19157; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA11648; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:57 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199905141710.LAA11648@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve.Gailey@db.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <199905141618.RAA03237@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> References: <199905141618.RAA03237@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > ifconfig? Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but normally it's not settable. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10:31:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3A014C3C for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00868; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905141728.KAA00868@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "14 May 1999 14:40:36 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:28:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > To summarize, it seems like a lot of trouble just to get 40 additional > scanlines and square pixels on obsolete hardware - anything that > doesn't support 'options VESA' was already obsolete five years ago. Unfortunately, it's the trend these days to _not_ support anything at all interesting in your VESA extensions. See eg. the nVidia Riva TNT firmware. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10:32:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 252D614E0C for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:32:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA24858; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:25:11 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905141525.RAA24858@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:25:10 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: Steve.Gailey@db.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905141710.LAA11648@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at May 14, 99 11:10:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1310 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > > ifconfig? > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > normally it's not settable. while ifconfig might miss this functionality, i believe your answer is incorrect. Several FreeBSD drivers read the MAC address from the rom/eeprom, copy it to sc->arpcom.ac_enaddr, and write it back to the card's address filter in the init phase. I suppose on other systems the same thing happens. It's a software thing, not a hardware one. A quick check shows the following drivers do that: sys/i386/isa/if_ed.c sys/pci/if_fxp.c sys/pci/if_de.c (probably) just to name the most common ones. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10:36:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6091E14C3C for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02782; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905141736.KAA02782@apollo.backplane.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: large master.passwd References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi : :On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not :trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. :The pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. : :Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. :I suspect it has something to do with the machines being reset etc before :the sync is finished. (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of :users around.) : :I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. : :So how usable is this patch? :Worth intregrating? What version of FreeBSD are you running? mmap is used heavily with the password DBM's and at least one mmap bug known to cause corruption in those files was fixed a month or two ago. I do not remember whether it was backported to 2.2.x, though. -Matt :Regards, :Roar Thronæs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 10:47:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from heathers.stdio.com (heathers.stdio.com [199.89.192.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD421512D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lile@stdio.com) Received: from heathers.stdio.com (lile@heathers.stdio.com [199.89.192.5]) by heathers.stdio.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17918; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:46:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lile@stdio.com) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Lile To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Nate Williams , Steve.Gailey@db.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <199905141525.RAA24858@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some day I will most likely need to deal with this for the Token-ring drivers. In token-ring having a UAA and LAA (Universally/Locally Administered Address) is very common especially in high-availibility situations. Larry Lile lile@stdio.com On Fri, 14 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > > > ifconfig? > > > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > > normally it's not settable. > > while ifconfig might miss this functionality, i believe your answer > is incorrect. Several FreeBSD drivers read the MAC address from > the rom/eeprom, copy it to sc->arpcom.ac_enaddr, and write it back > to the card's address filter in the init phase. I suppose on other > systems the same thing happens. It's a software thing, not a hardware > one. > > A quick check shows the following drivers do that: > > sys/i386/isa/if_ed.c > sys/pci/if_fxp.c > sys/pci/if_de.c (probably) > > just to name the most common ones. > > cheers > luigi > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 11: 9:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 624B61512D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 70465 invoked by uid 1001); 14 May 1999 18:09:22 +0000 (GMT) To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, Steve.Gailey@db.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 17:25:10 +0200 (MET DST)" References: <199905141525.RAA24858@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:09:22 +0200 Message-ID: <70463.926705362@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > > normally it's not settable. > > while ifconfig might miss this functionality, i believe your answer > is incorrect. Yep. It's the other way around - any card will allow you to do this, AFAIK. Otherwise they couldn't be made to work with DECnet, for instance. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 12:19: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA8614E18 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id PAA01313; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:18:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199905141918.PAA01313@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: Steve.Gailey@db.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > > ifconfig? > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > normally it's not settable. Yeah, we've got some Dy-4 m68k-based single board computers that allow the lower 3 bytes of the MAC address to be programmed. It's kind of annoying though, because the lower 3 bytes are always set to 0 and we have to uniquely set them for each board that we deliver to our customer. The MAC addresses were meant to be unique; why do you want the ability to change them? So you can make M$ viruses without anyone figuring it out who made them ;-)? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 12:21:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057D515276 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA04978 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:45:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:45:24 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: what happened to that m68k port? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just out of curiousity, what ever happened with the port that was brought up on -questions? Was it a joke? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 12:30: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD991512D for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA16964; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:29:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199905141929.VAA16964@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: <199905141728.KAA00868@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "May 14, 1999 10:28:27 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:29:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, kbyanc@alcnet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Mike Smith wrote: > > To summarize, it seems like a lot of trouble just to get 40 additional > > scanlines and square pixels on obsolete hardware - anything that > > doesn't support 'options VESA' was already obsolete five years ago. > > Unfortunately, it's the trend these days to _not_ support anything at > all interesting in your VESA extensions. See eg. the nVidia Riva TNT > firmware. Endeed, they are going new ways allready, VESA support is an endangered animal half dead allready. We have to face it, the only way to use modern video HW is to have a driver that understands it. That is the exact problem, and why I'm very happy for the work the Xfree86 guys are doing. You can do mode-crap-of-the-day on some oldish and som newish HW, but whats the point ?? If you need a wierd resolution for a game or such, have the game set up the VGA regs, and be with it. Using graphics for much else is just retro-computing coming true :) (said the man that did our current video driver, and lots of graphics utils for it, including the minmalistic libvgl, and loved it). -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 12:42:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4641543B for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14570; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:42:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905141918.PAA01313@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems From: "Mark J. Taylor" To: Daniel Eischen Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One of the purposes of changing the MAC address is for server redundancy. Suppose that one of your "important" servers went down. Wouldn't it be nice for the alternative server (a mirror) to get the "important" server's MAC address (and IP address(es), and AppleTalk address, etc.), so the client's ARP caches don't have to timeout before they can access the "important" server again (aka the mirror)? -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer mtaylor@cybernet.com On 14-May-99 Daniel Eischen wrote: >> > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using >> > ifconfig? >> >> Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow >> you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere >> someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but >> normally it's not settable. > > Yeah, we've got some Dy-4 m68k-based single board computers that > allow the lower 3 bytes of the MAC address to be programmed. It's > kind of annoying though, because the lower 3 bytes are always > set to 0 and we have to uniquely set them for each board that > we deliver to our customer. > > The MAC addresses were meant to be unique; why do you want the > ability to change them? So you can make M$ viruses without > anyone figuring it out who made them ;-)? > > Dan Eischen > eischen@vigrid.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 13:10: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF4214E99 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id QAA07993; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:09:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199905142009.QAA07993@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > One of the purposes of changing the MAC address is for server > redundancy. > > Suppose that one of your "important" servers went down. Wouldn't it > be nice for the alternative server (a mirror) to get the "important" > server's MAC address (and IP address(es), and AppleTalk address, etc.), > so the client's ARP caches don't have to timeout before they can > access the "important" server again (aka the mirror)? Ahhh... Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 13:17:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E2414D34 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA03939; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905142017.NAA03939@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! The project has been running a beta test for a while, but as of May 13th 1999 they reset the stats and introduced new clients for Unix, Windows, and the Mac. I recommend that FreeBSDrs download the FreeBSD3.1 client, even if you are running 4.x, so our stats do not split up. If you are already running the seti client, you need to download a new rev! -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 13:23:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928DB14D34 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20894; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12779; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:23:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:23:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199905142023.OAA12779@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <199905142017.NAA03939@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199905142017.NAA03939@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start > putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! Where would would find informatio on said project? Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 13:24:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3D914E2E for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA04032; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:24:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905142024.NAA04032@apollo.backplane.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905142017.NAA03939@apollo.backplane.com> <199905142023.OAA12779@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :> For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start :> putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! : :Where would would find informatio on said project? : : :Nate Oops! I'm sorry! http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 13:37:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F161F14DA8 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:37:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01838; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905142035.NAA01838@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 13:24:14 PDT." <199905142024.NAA04032@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:35:03 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start > :> putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! > : > :Where would would find informatio on said project? > : > : > :Nate > > Oops! I'm sorry! > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ They're not responding at the moment (page OK, application server down) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 14:11:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5626914D31 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (cmcurtin@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27468; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12301; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:11:25 -0400 (EDT) To: Dennis Cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> X-Face: L"IcL.b%SDN]0Kql2b`e.}+i05V9fi\yX#H1+Xl)3!+n/3?5`%-SA-HDgPk9uTk<3dv^J5DCgal)-E{`zN#*o6F|y>r)\< Date: 14 May 1999 17:11:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: Dennis's message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: Dennis> All software has bugs TeX has no bugs. But it's the exception, not the rule. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 16:32:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031A414FFF for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:32:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA20420; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA00178; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:30:59 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA00986; Fri, 14 May 99 16:30:50 PDT Message-Id: <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:30:51 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Curtin Cc: Dennis , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Curtin wrote: > > >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: > > Dennis> All software has bugs > > TeX has no bugs. TeX has no *known* bugs. To the best of my knowlege, even Dr. Knuth has not yet been able to *prove* it is correct. > But it's the exception, not the rule. It certainly is, but perhaps it shouldn't be. I've worked on a few carefully verified systems, and they are quite expensived to create. They're the kind of systems that you hope would be carefully checked, though, since they involve flinging nuclear bombs at people. Anyone want to pony up a few dozen million dollars to do an NSCCA on FreeBSD? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 16:42:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786BB14CB1 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) id JAA95262; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:43:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199905142343.JAA95262@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: from Matt Curtin at "May 14, 1999 5:11:25 pm" To: cmcurtin@interhack.net (Matt Curtin) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:43:16 +1000 (EST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, ragnar@sysabend.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Matt Curtin ]--------------------------------------------- | >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: | | Dennis> All software has bugs | | TeX has no bugs. | | But it's the exception, not the rule. You cannot test for the abscence of bugs. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 16:45: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A342414BE5 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:45:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11646; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 13:24:14 PDT." <199905142024.NAA04032@apollo.backplane.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:43:30 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >: >:> For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start >:> putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! >: >:Where would would find informatio on said project? >: >: >:Nate > > Oops! I'm sorry! > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Now available at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/ -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 16:56: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125B014FA0 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:56:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA04881; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:56:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:56:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Greenman Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ : : Now available at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/ : :-DG : :David Greenman :Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org :Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com Yah, but I spoke too soon.. their 1.1 client is coughing chunks. It's seriously broken. Growl. How annoying, I hope they fix it ASAP! -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 16:57:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C4F14F76 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00076; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:57:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:57:30 -0700 (PWT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: David Greenman , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So do I. I would like them to make the source available. I have *lots* of machines available that are sitting doing nothing. But they don't run FreeBSD (yet). I have at least 3 alpha 8200s and 4 Alpha 4100s that are running NetBSD now and mostly quiescent. On Fri, 14 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ > : > : Now available at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/ > : > :-DG > : > :David Greenman > :Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > :Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com > > Yah, but I spoke too soon.. their 1.1 client is coughing chunks. It's > seriously broken. Growl. How annoying, I hope they fix it ASAP! > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 17:42:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9223815025 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA45940; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:46:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:46:51 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Chuck Robey Cc: Nik Clayton , Amancio Hasty , Bob Willcox , Alex Zepeda , hackers list Subject: Re: Native Applixware for FreeBSD -- When? Message-ID: <19990514204651.A45455@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990513215923.A76360@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, May 13, 1999 at 08:07:41PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 13, 1999 at 08:07:41PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > > Your XML aware web browser could then also read in these ATLL files and > > do something useful with them too, *without you needing to convert them > > to HTML first*. This is where the XML Style Language (XSL) comes in. > > > > XML is really SGML-lite. Most of chapter 3 of > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/ > > > > is accurate for XML as well. > > Except that XSL is not the XML Style Language. Argh. That's what I get for trying to be quick :-) Look at the FDP Primer, that was only meant to be ~ 5 pages when I started writing the damn thing. > There are a lot of free tools using xml and xsl out there. Indeed. Anyone interested in persuing this is recommended to head on over to -doc, and/or take a look at http://www.oasis-open.org/cover/ N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 18:40:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B583154AC for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@walker3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27546 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:40:54 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (scv4.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:40:53 -0700 Received: from walker3.apple.com (walker3.apple.com [17.219.24.201]) by scv4.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA51906; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:39:12 -0700 Received: by walker3.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA00629; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905150140.SAA00629@walker3.apple.com> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: Steve.Gailey@db.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905141618.RAA03237@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:40:49 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Apologies if this is duplicated, sort of; I inadvertently lost power as I was sending a reply to this, and I don't have a record that it was sent]. > From: Nate Williams > Date: 1999-05-14 10:11:52 -0700 > To: Steve.Gailey@db.com > Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: <199905141618.RAA03237@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > > ifconfig? > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > normally it's not settable. I don't believe this is correct. The cards I'm familiar with only accept unicast packets when programmed with a specific MAC address. This is normally the one that's in a ROM associated with the device somehow, but there's no reason it can't be changed. DECNet, for example, assumes for some protocols at least, that the MAC address is one from the block of addresses owned by DEC. CompaqNet? Sheesh. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | When crypto is outlawed, Apple Computer, Inc. | Only outlaws will have crypto. 2 Infinite Loop | Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 18:43:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF8314EE3 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA15909; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA43652; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:49 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:49 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Mark J. Taylor" Cc: Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199905141918.PAA01313@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Mark J. Taylor on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 03:43:15PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 15:43:15 -0400, Mark J. Taylor wrote: > On 14-May-99 Daniel Eischen wrote: >>>> Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using >>>> ifconfig? >>> >>> Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow >>> you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere >>> someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but >>> normally it's not settable. >> >> Yeah, we've got some Dy-4 m68k-based single board computers that >> allow the lower 3 bytes of the MAC address to be programmed. It's >> kind of annoying though, because the lower 3 bytes are always >> set to 0 and we have to uniquely set them for each board that >> we deliver to our customer. >> >> The MAC addresses were meant to be unique; why do you want the >> ability to change them? So you can make M$ viruses without >> anyone figuring it out who made them ;-)? > > One of the purposes of changing the MAC address is for server > redundancy. Yes, and in fact Tandem^H^H^H^H^H^HCompaq use this for their NonStop Ethernet. The machine has two ethernet boards. If one goes down, the other assumes its identity. It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to suggest a syntax? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 18:57:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A1C115469 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 14449 invoked from network); 15 May 1999 01:57:20 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 May 1999 01:57:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA75086; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:57:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:57:19 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Reply-To: David Scheidt To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: : :It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to :suggest a syntax? : ifconfig interface ether ab:cd:ef:fe:dc:ab [options] makes sense to me. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:15:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF1715469 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27953; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:15:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:15:33 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: David Scheidt Cc: Greg Lehey , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com> References: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from "David Scheidt" on Fri May 14 20:57:19 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 14), David Scheidt said: > On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > :It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like > :to suggest a syntax? > > ifconfig interface ether ab:cd:ef:fe:dc:ab [options] > > makes sense to me. And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:21: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 105821512F for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA16003; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:50:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA48651; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:50:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:50:50 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dan Nelson Cc: David Scheidt , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com>; from Dan Nelson on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 09:15:33PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:15:33 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (May 14), David Scheidt said: >> On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: >> :It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like >> :to suggest a syntax? >> >> ifconfig interface ether ab:cd:ef:fe:dc:ab [options] >> >> makes sense to me. > > And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as > one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that > I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double the bandwidth of the wire? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:41:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E535F14E1B for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 24152 invoked from network); 15 May 1999 02:41:24 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 May 1999 02:41:24 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA75258; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:41:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:41:23 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: :On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:15:33 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: :> :> And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards :> ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as :> one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that :> I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. : :I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double :the bandwidth of the wire? : I think he means having two interfaces in each box, with the same MAC. So he has two wires, each with 10Mbs. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:44:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E0614DCE for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28302; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:44:27 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:44:27 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Greg Lehey Cc: David Scheidt , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990514214427.A28206@dan.emsphone.com> References: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com> <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com>; from "Greg Lehey" on Sat May 15 11:50:50 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 15), Greg Lehey said: > > And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > > ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as > > one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that > > I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. > > I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double > the bandwidth of the wire? Two wires :) Drop two Intel EtherExpress 10/100 NICs into a Netware box, load the Intel failover/bonding .NLM, plug the NICs into adjacent ports on a compatible switch (we use BayStacks), configure the switch to bond those two ports together, and you instantly double your bandwidth. If a card fails, all traffic simply routes to the other card. I've only been able to max out both cards once (according to my mrtg graph), but it does work. It shouldn't be strictly limited to EtherExpress cards though. The general idea should work no matter what cards you have. -Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:48:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B8514DCE for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA16123; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:17:47 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA48776; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:17:47 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:17:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Scheidt Cc: Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515121747.N89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 09:41:23PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:41:23 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > :On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:15:33 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > :> > :> And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > :> ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as > :> one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that > :> I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. > : > :I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double > :the bandwidth of the wire? > : > > I think he means having two interfaces in each box, with the same MAC. So he > has two wires, each with 10Mbs. If you have two different nets, why do you need the same Ethernet address? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:54: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 83E2214C29 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 24986 invoked from network); 15 May 1999 02:54:02 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 May 1999 02:54:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA75361; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:54:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:54:02 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515121747.N89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: : :If you have two different nets, why do you need the same Ethernet :address? : Transparent redundancy. With them both up on the same MAC address, if one fails, you have no loss of connection, though you may drop some packets, of course. Most of the time you get twice the bandwidth. David, who doesn't want to think about writing a driver for this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 19:58:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C01D14C29 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA16158; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:28:28 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA48832; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:28:26 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:28:26 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Scheidt Cc: Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990515121747.N89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 09:54:02PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:54:02 -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > : > :If you have two different nets, why do you need the same Ethernet > :address? > : > > Transparent redundancy. With them both up on the same MAC address, if one > fails, you have no loss of connection, though you may drop some packets, of > course. Most of the time you get twice the bandwidth. > > David, who doesn't want to think about writing a driver for this. OK, now maybe I'm missing something here. But an Ethernet address is used to identify a board. Arp binds it to an IP address. An IP address is bound to a network. So if you're on a different network, you get a different IP address. Why do you need the same Ethernet address? This is very different from having two boards on the same network, both with the same Ethernet address. As I observed earlier, that does make sense, but it's a hot standby situation. I can't see any point in arranging for both of them to accept or send data. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 20: 6: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9B0514C29 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 25973 invoked from network); 15 May 1999 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 May 1999 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA75480; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:06:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:05:59 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: :OK, now maybe I'm missing something here. But an Ethernet address is :used to identify a board. Arp binds it to an IP address. An IP :address is bound to a network. So if you're on a different network, :you get a different IP address. Why do you need the same Ethernet :address? You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only get the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybody but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do some Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 20:24:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tch.org (tacostand.tch.org [199.74.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049DE14D69 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser@tch.org) Received: (from ser@localhost) by tch.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA09406; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:24:49 -0700 From: Steve Rubin To: David Scheidt Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990514202448.A9401@tch.org> References: <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 10:05:59PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as > your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only get > the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports > together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybody > but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do some > Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. > Having 2 ethernet cards with the same mac address on two different ports of all the cisco switches I have used (1100-6500) will confuse the hell out of them :). I've seen it happen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 20:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397FD14FB9 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28917; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:26:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:26:19 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Greg Lehey Cc: David Scheidt , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990514222619.A28754@dan.emsphone.com> References: <19990515121747.N89091@freebie.lemis.com> <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com>; from "Greg Lehey" on Sat May 15 12:28:26 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 15), Greg Lehey said: > OK, now maybe I'm missing something here. But an Ethernet address is > used to identify a board. Arp binds it to an IP address. An IP > address is bound to a network. So if you're on a different network, > you get a different IP address. Why do you need the same Ethernet > address? I don't think anyone mentioned anything about having the cards on two networks. In that case, you're right, having two cards with the same MAC address doesn't help one bit. > This is very different from having two boards on the same network, > both with the same Ethernet address. As I observed earlier, that does > make sense, but it's a hot standby situation. I can't see any point > in arranging for both of them to accept or send data. Doubles the bandwidth. Especially if you are talking to multiple machines (i.e. talk to two regular boxes at 100mbit/sec each), or have another box hooked up the same way (200mbit/sec to it). Since both cards in the server have the same MAC address, the client boxes don't know anything's unusual. -Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 20:29: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EED14D69 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/) via ESMTP id UAA27064; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:28:55 -0700 (PDT) env-from (jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Message-Id: <199905150328.UAA27064@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: Steve Rubin Cc: David Scheidt , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-reply-to: Message from Steve Rubin of "Fri, 14 May 1999 20:24:49 PDT." <19990514202448.A9401@tch.org> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:28:55 -0700 From: John Milford Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You have to have the capibility on the switch, and enable it first. It is called EtherChannel by Cisco, and it is 2 or 4 ports that all have the same MAC addr plugged into the switch, and the switch treats them as one interface. --John Steve Rubin wrote: > > > > You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as > > your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only ge t > > the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports > > together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybo dy > > but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do so me > > Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. > > > > Having 2 ethernet cards with the same mac address on two different ports > of all the cisco switches I have used (1100-6500) will confuse the hell > out of them :). I've seen it happen. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 21:42:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02A0F14E6F for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03725; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <373CFB23.FD374A45@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:42:11 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address References: <199905141918.PAA01313@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 15:43:15 -0400, Mark J. Taylor wrote: > > > > One of the purposes of changing the MAC address is for server > > redundancy. > > Yes, and in fact Tandem^H^H^H^H^H^HCompaq use this for their NonStop > Ethernet. The machine has two ethernet boards. If one goes down, the > other assumes its identity. > > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > suggest a syntax? Be sure to account for canonical vs. non-canonical representations for Token Ring while you're at it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 21:45:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DDC14E6F for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03737; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <373CFBD3.6A3E954C@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:45:07 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: David Scheidt , Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address References: <19990515121747.N89091@freebie.lemis.com> <19990515122826.O89091@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > OK, now maybe I'm missing something here. But an Ethernet address is > used to identify a board. Arp binds it to an IP address. An IP > address is bound to a network. So if you're on a different network, > you get a different IP address. Why do you need the same Ethernet > address? > > This is very different from having two boards on the same network, > both with the same Ethernet address. As I observed earlier, that does > make sense, but it's a hot standby situation. I can't see any point > in arranging for both of them to accept or send data. Redundancy and throughput both. Most switches can do this; using two physical ports as one logical link. Think of it as network link striping. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 14 21:47:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E3215491 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03746; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <373CFC34.D745325B@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:46:44 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: Greg Lehey , Dan Nelson , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > > On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > :OK, now maybe I'm missing something here. But an Ethernet address is > :used to identify a board. Arp binds it to an IP address. An IP > :address is bound to a network. So if you're on a different network, > :you get a different IP address. Why do you need the same Ethernet > :address? > > You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as > your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only get > the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports > together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybody > but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do some > Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. And all Xylan switches (soon, if not now.) ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 0:26:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tch.org (tacostand.tch.org [199.74.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F4A14D23 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:26:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser@tch.org) Received: (from ser@localhost) by tch.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA29257; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 00:26:37 -0700 From: Steve Rubin To: John Milford Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515002636.A28747@tch.org> References: <199905150328.UAA27064@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905150328.UAA27064@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>; from John Milford on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 08:28:55PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is not how Etherchannel works. Anyone from cisco here care to explain better than I possibly could? On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 08:28:55PM -0700, John Milford wrote: > > You have to have the capibility on the switch, and enable it > first. It is called EtherChannel by Cisco, and it is 2 or 4 ports > that all have the same MAC addr plugged into the switch, and the > switch treats them as one interface. > > > --John > > > Steve Rubin wrote: > > > > > > > You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as > > > your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only ge > t > > > the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports > > > together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybo > dy > > > but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do so > me > > > Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. > > > > > > > Having 2 ethernet cards with the same mac address on two different ports > > of all the cisco switches I have used (1100-6500) will confuse the hell > > out of them :). I've seen it happen. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Steve Rubin - ser@tch.org - http://www.tch.org/~ser/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 0:38:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C6714BE6 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA19883; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 03:38:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > suggest a syntax? Keep in mind that a number of cards support multiple MAC addresses. Simply using GET/SET limits the potential uses. In general all cards will have a primary MAC address. Some cards will have a number of additional 'perfect match' entries (which must be shared with multicast group addresses etc.) GET/SET are fine for operations against the primary MAC address. LIST/ADD/DELETE may be useful for the additional addresses. All devices can 'mimic' this behavior by running in promiscuous mode and doing address matching in software. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 0:42:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F2414BE6 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA19932; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 03:42:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Dan Nelson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 May 1999, Dan Nelson wrote: > And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together > as one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines > that I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between > transparently. Bill and I discussed this briefly. You want a sort of 'virtual' interface that allows the attachment of other real (or maybe other 'virtual' interfaces) beneath it. This interface implements a number of policies regarding how it routes packets addressed to it. The two distinct policies I can think of at this time are: - channel bonding/trunking - redundant link -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 1: 8: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC1014C09 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 01:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11948; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:07:54 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:07:54 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <19990515115050.L89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:15:33 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (May 14), David Scheidt said: > >> On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> :It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like > >> :to suggest a syntax? > >> > >> ifconfig interface ether ab:cd:ef:fe:dc:ab [options] > >> > >> makes sense to me. > > > > And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > > ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as > > one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that > > I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. > > I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double > the bandwidth of the wire? > The cards don't have to be on the same wire, they just need to connect to the same switch. Indeed, I don't think two cards can be on the same wire with 10/100BaseT/TX. > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 1:47:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A666C15121 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 01:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id JAA17499; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:57:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05979; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:08:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905141808.UAA05979@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <199905141918.PAA01313@pcnet1.pcnet.com> from Daniel Eischen at "May 14, 1999 3:18:21 pm" To: eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:08:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Steve.Gailey@db.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Daniel Eischen wrote ... > > > Is it possible to change the mac address of an ethernet card using > > > ifconfig? > > > > Not in any 'standard' card, no. Some cards (in SUN workstations) allow > > you to swap the EEPROM with the mac address, and I'll bet somewhere > > someone has designed a card with a programmable mac address, but > > normally it's not settable. > > Yeah, we've got some Dy-4 m68k-based single board computers that > allow the lower 3 bytes of the MAC address to be programmed. It's > kind of annoying though, because the lower 3 bytes are always > set to 0 and we have to uniquely set them for each board that > we deliver to our customer. > > The MAC addresses were meant to be unique; why do you want the > ability to change them? So you can make M$ viruses without > anyone figuring it out who made them ;-)? Things like DECnet set the MAC address. Don't ask me why though. | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 2:21:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD05214E79; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id BAA82830; Sat, 15 May 1999 01:48:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:48:23 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. Message-ID: <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 05:30:51PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Redirected to -chat ] On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 05:30:51PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Matt Curtin wrote: > > > > >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: > > > > Dennis> All software has bugs > > > > TeX has no bugs. > > TeX has no *known* bugs. To the best of my knowlege, even Dr. Knuth > has not yet been able to *prove* it is correct. Didn't Knuth say "I've only proven TeX to be correct, I haven't tested it" or some such? I could well be mis-remembering a quote about some other app. N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 2:21:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAA41505F for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:21:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id VAA09285; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:21:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA10630; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:21:24 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:21:24 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: Dan Nelson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990515212124.A10435@clear.co.nz> References: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew N. Dodd on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 03:42:35AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 03:42:35AM -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > You want a sort of 'virtual' interface that allows the attachment of other > real (or maybe other 'virtual' interfaces) beneath it. This interface > implements a number of policies regarding how it routes packets addressed > to it. > > The two distinct policies I can think of at this time are: > > - channel bonding/trunking > - redundant link VRRP support would be nice (a la RFC2338 -- it's an openly-specified version of cisco's HSRP). I keep meaning to delve into the specifics of this, but if it's like HSRP it supports two address alias strategies -- one moves the "virtual router" IP address between two real routers' MAC addresses (by re-ARPing) and the other shifts the virtual router MAC address between the real routers. Moving the MAC address generally works better on ciscos, and is the default behaviour if the routers involved have firmware that supports soft ethernet addresses. But that's quite possibly due to the rather broken cisco ARP implementation (at least in interop with suns). This is perhaps another application for (a) soft MAC addressing on cards that support it, and (b) the idea of a "virtual"-type interface, perhaps tied to a specific driver. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 2:24:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787D015752 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id VAA09861; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:24:19 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA10650; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:24:19 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:24:19 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Matthew Dillon Cc: David Greenman , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <19990515212419.B10435@clear.co.nz> References: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 04:56:05PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 04:56:05PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ > : > : Now available at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/setiathome/ > : > :-DG > : > :David Greenman > :Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > :Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com > > Yah, but I spoke too soon.. their 1.1 client is coughing chunks. It's > seriously broken. Growl. How annoying, I hope they fix it ASAP! I compiled the 1.1 client for FreeBSD3.1 -- what seems to be the problem with it? [It seemed to work ok for me, but I admit I didn't test it very exhaustively]. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 2:27: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5F2151A8 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA12350; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:26:38 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:26:38 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Wes Peters Cc: Matt Curtin , Dennis , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 May 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Matt Curtin wrote: > > > > >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: > > > > Dennis> All software has bugs > > > > TeX has no bugs. > > TeX has no *known* bugs. To the best of my knowlege, even Dr. Knuth > has not yet been able to *prove* it is correct. > > > But it's the exception, not the rule. > > It certainly is, but perhaps it shouldn't be. > > I've worked on a few carefully verified systems, and they are quite > expensived to create. They're the kind of systems that you hope > would be carefully checked, though, since they involve flinging > nuclear bombs at people. > > Anyone want to pony up a few dozen million dollars to do an NSCCA > on FreeBSD? > Would somebody use such a version even if somebody did come up with the money? After all the months spent at verifing the correctness of FreeBSD, they would wake up in the world where FreeBSD has meanwhile moved on by some version numbers and has tons of new features everybody wants. IMHO we have some years till we have enough stability that such a thing would be even a sensible thing to do (as in - there are enough people who will want to run it and parts can be merged back). > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 3: 9:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA3C14C35 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:09:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id WAA17927; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:09:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA11552; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:09:34 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:09:34 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Matthew Dillon , David Greenman , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <19990515220934.B11392@clear.co.nz> References: <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew Jacob on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 04:57:30PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 04:57:30PM -0700, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > So do I. I would like them to make the source available. I have *lots* of > machines available that are sitting doing nothing. But they don't run > FreeBSD (yet). I have at least 3 alpha 8200s and 4 Alpha 4100s that are > running NetBSD now and mostly quiescent. If people have been having problems with proxy support in the 1.1 client on FreeBSD, let me know and I'll mail you a new binary to test. If you have other platforms you'd like to compile for, contact David Anderson and he'll more than likely thank you and point you towards the source. As I understand it, the reasons for not publishing the source include: + the analysis repository might get polluted with inacurrate results from un-tested clients + distributing binaries for platforms where source dists are not the norm (e.g. Mac, Windows) might encourage people to stuff them full of trojans. Anyway, I have nothing to do with SETI so I'll shut up now :) Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 3:25:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8062314CD3 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id WAA20670; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:25:26 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA12630; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:25:25 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:25:25 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: David Greenman Cc: Matthew Dillon , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: 3.1 binaries, 3.2 binaries...? Message-ID: <19990515222525.A11491@clear.co.nz> References: <199905142024.NAA04032@apollo.backplane.com> <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, May 14, 1999 at 04:43:30PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My stable machine now calls itself: FreeBSD buddha.clear.net.nz 3.2-BETA FreeBSD 3.2-BETA #11: Fri May 14 19:24:02 NZST 1999 jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz:/usr/src/sys/compile/TIMELORD i386 In other words, the release version number has wrapped to 3.2 from 3.1 following a sup and build the other day. I have been building the setiathome clients for 3.1 and 4.0 -- the 3.1 binary was previously built on this machine. Presumably there have been _some_ changes between 3.1-RELEASE and 3.2-BETA that would cause binaries compiled on 3.2 to have problems on 3.1. Does anybody fancy (a) testing a 3.2-compiled setiathome binary I just rolled, on a 3.1-RELEASE machine? (b) taking over builds for FreeBSD 3.1 binaries, if it transpires there is an incompatability? (I don't have a 3.1 machine any more) Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 3:34:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8325614D58; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA48634; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:34:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 May 1999 12:34:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: Nik Clayton's message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 01:48:23 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton writes: > Didn't Knuth say "I've only proven TeX to be correct, I haven't tested > it" or some such? TeX is far too large to undergo even a partial correctness proof, much less a total correctness proof (I'm not even sure total correctness can be proven; cf. the halting problem). I seriously doubt Knuth ever considered undertaking such a task. It's quite possible, though, that he's proven partial or total correctness of some portions of it (such as frequently-used low-level routines). Correctness proofs are very time-consuming, because they can't be automated. There are experimental tools which can assist with part of the work (e.g. the partially-completed Abel project at the University of Oslo: ) but the hardest part of the job - finding loop and type invariants and post- and pre-conditions which the prover can use as starting points - must still be done manually. The day when a computer can prove partial correctness of a program on its own is the day when computers gain the ability to program and debug themselves - and we'll all be out of a job and out of a hobby. > I could well be mis-remembering a quote about some other app. As I remember it, the quote referred to a noddy program used as an example in a paper or lecture. Knuth had proven the program to be correct, but had never actually compiled it. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 4:24:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35CD614DEC for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 04:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 82721 invoked by uid 1001); 15 May 1999 11:24:23 +0000 (GMT) To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, Steve.Gailey@db.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 20:08:21 +0200 (CEST)" References: <199905141808.UAA05979@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:24:23 +0200 Message-ID: <82719.926767463@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Things like DECnet set the MAC address. Don't ask me why though. Because there is a one to one correspondence between the DECnet (Phase IV) address and the MAC address. Ie. if you specify the DECnet address, you have also implicitly specified the MAC address. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 4:42:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074B514E8D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 04:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA13924; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:41:41 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <373D598F.865446C8@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:25:03 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: Matt Curtin , dennis@etinc.com, ragnar@sysabend.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905142343.JAA95262@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > +----[ Matt Curtin ]--------------------------------------------- > | >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: > | > | Dennis> All software has bugs > | > | TeX has no bugs. > | > | But it's the exception, not the rule. > > You cannot test for the abscence of bugs. You can prove it, though. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 4:52:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A905E14D03; Sat, 15 May 1999 04:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA15061; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:52:15 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <373D5F5C.4D19831F@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:49:48 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Correctness proofs are very time-consuming, because they can't be > automated. There are experimental tools which can assist with part of > the work (e.g. the partially-completed Abel project at the University > of Oslo: ) but the hardest > part of the job - finding loop and type invariants and post- and > pre-conditions which the prover can use as starting points - must > still be done manually. Things like SPIN goes a long, long way to make such proofs more viable. Take, for instance, correctness proofs of Fluke IPC subsystem. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 4:56:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A7214D03 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 04:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) id VAA05957; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:56:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199905151156.VAA05957@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. In-Reply-To: <373D598F.865446C8@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at "May 15, 1999 8:25: 3 pm" To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:56:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: cmcurtin@interhack.net, dennis@etinc.com, ragnar@sysabend.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Daniel C. Sobral ]--------------------------------------------- | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: | > | > +----[ Matt Curtin ]--------------------------------------------- | > | >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: | > | | > | Dennis> All software has bugs | > | | > | TeX has no bugs. | > | | > | But it's the exception, not the rule. | > | > You cannot test for the abscence of bugs. | | You can prove it, though. Only if you first prove the operating system and the compiler :-) -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 5:21: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA29914FA7; Sat, 15 May 1999 05:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA48888; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:20:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <373D5F5C.4D19831F@newsguy.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 May 1999 14:20:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Daniel C. Sobral"'s message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 20:49:48 +0900" Message-ID: Lines: 38 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > [...] but the hardest > > part of the job - finding loop and type invariants and post- and > > pre-conditions which the prover can use as starting points - must > > still be done manually. > Things like SPIN goes a long, long way to make such proofs more > viable. Take, for instance, correctness proofs of Fluke IPC > subsystem. Invariants and pre- and post-conditions (aka internal documentation) must still be written by humans. The computer can prove that a subroutine fulfills its purpose, but it can't guess at that purpose. The best it can do is start with type invariants ("this function receives one integer parameter, and integers range from -2^31 to 2^31-1"), and use forward construction to generate a post-invariant for the function, but such machine-generated post-invariants are mostly useless. Inference rules which rely on right consequence and right-constructive axiom schemas tend to produce complicated expressions riddled with icky quantifiers (in other words, garbage - provably correct garbage, but garbage nonetheless). For a useful proof, you need either a very restrictive precondition, or a postcondition which accurately describes the intended result. The latter is preferred, since left construction is much easier to handle than right construction. As long as programs are written by humans, making human assumptions, humans will be required to document their assumptions. One other problem is proof of termination. A computerized proof system may be able to prove termination of simple loops and some cases of recursion, but anything more than that gets dangerously close to the halting problem, which is unsolvable by a deterministic computer. Ghod knows termination is hard enough to prove for humans... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 5:37:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B873414D03 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 05:37:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id WAA13558 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:07:43 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA24935; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:08:30 +0930 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:08:27 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Patch for make -j exploit Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1802820351-926771603=:5879" Content-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1802820351-926771603=:5879 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: make -j creates temporary files for the purpose of storing shell commands - unfortunately, it just names them /tmp/makeXXXXX where XXXXX is the PID of the parent process. This leads to a potential DoS exploit wherein a user can guess the PID of the make process and create symlinks to, say /etc/passwd, which will be followed when root runs make -j, and overwritten (in practise it's necessary to 'mine' /tmp with a thousand or so consecutive symlinks to increase the chances of the PID landing in the range). This is of course only possible if root runs a parallel make on a system with a malicious user, but I still consider it a possibility. The attached patches seem to rectify this problem - can someone please review them? Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ --0-1802820351-926771603=:5879 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME="make.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME="make.patch" SW5kZXg6IGpvYi5jDQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpSQ1MgZmls ZTogL2hvbWUvbmN2cy9zcmMvdXNyLmJpbi9tYWtlL2pvYi5jLHYNCnJldHJp ZXZpbmcgcmV2aXNpb24gMS4xMg0KZGlmZiAtdSAtcjEuMTIgam9iLmMNCi0t LSBqb2IuYwkxOTk5LzAyLzE0IDIyOjIyOjQyCTEuMTINCisrKyBqb2IuYwkx OTk5LzA1LzE1IDEyOjI0OjE5DQpAQCAtMTYxLDEzICsxNjEsMTAgQEANCiAN CiAvKg0KICAqIHRmaWxlIGlzIHRoZSBuYW1lIG9mIGEgZmlsZSBpbnRvIHdo aWNoIGFsbCBzaGVsbCBjb21tYW5kcyBhcmUgcHV0LiBJdCBpcw0KLSAqIHVz ZWQgb3ZlciBieSByZW1vdmluZyBpdCBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIGNoaWxkIHNoZWxs 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(ppp-1-169.dialup.rdu.ipass.net [209.170.132.169]) by pluto.ipass.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16395 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rhh@localhost) by stealth.ipass.net. (8.9.1/8.8.8) id JAA17185 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:14:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rhh) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:14:22 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD/USENIX Ocean Cruise Message-ID: <19990515091422.A17112@ipass.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.geekcruises.com/ What a cool idea. Maybe we'll see a FreeBSD/USENIX conference on-deck someday. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 6:14:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1575B14E9D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 06:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Received: from phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no ([IPv6:::ffff:129.241.210.108]:51876 "EHLO phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no" ident: "roart") by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49974-3942>; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:11:24 +0200 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 15:11:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: large master.passwd In-Reply-To: <199905141736.KAA02782@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :Hi > : > :On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not > :trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. > :The pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. > : > :Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. > :I suspect it has something to do with the machines being reset etc before > :the sync is finished. (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of > :users around.) > : > :I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. > : > :So how usable is this patch? > :Worth intregrating? > > What version of FreeBSD are you running? mmap is used heavily with the > password DBM's and at least one mmap bug known to cause corruption in > those files was fixed a month or two ago. I do not remember whether it > was backported to 2.2.x, though. 2.2.8R. But planning to upgrade the workstations to 3.1R/3.2R soon. -Roar Thronæs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 7:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D42015035 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA09266; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905151425.HAA09266@apollo.backplane.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= Cc: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: large master.passwd References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> : :> :On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not :> :trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. :> :The pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. :> : :> :Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. :> :I suspect it has something to do with the machines being reset etc before :> :the sync is finished. (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of :> :users around.) :> : :> :I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. :> : :> :So how usable is this patch? :> :Worth intregrating? :> :> What version of FreeBSD are you running? mmap is used heavily with the :> password DBM's and at least one mmap bug known to cause corruption in :> those files was fixed a month or two ago. I do not remember whether it :> was backported to 2.2.x, though. : :2.2.8R. :But planning to upgrade the workstations to 3.1R/3.2R soon. : :-Roar Thronæs Ok. I'm pretty sure the bug related to the database corruption has been fixed. It may even be fixed in the 2.2.x branch ( post 2.2.8 ), but I'm not sure there. If this is the bug I think it is, it is fixed in 3.x and 4.x. Your hack should fix the problem temporarily. One of the mmap() bugs was related to page unaligned operations. By changing the cache size from 2K to 8K you probably worked around the bug sufficiently for your purposes. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 7:33:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5616914FF1 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA09356; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905151433.HAA09356@apollo.backplane.com> To: Joe Abley Cc: Matthew Jacob , David Greenman , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905142356.QAA04881@apollo.backplane.com> <19990515220934.B11392@clear.co.nz> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :If people have been having problems with proxy support in the 1.1 client :on FreeBSD, let me know and I'll mail you a new binary to test. It seems to be working now. Maybe it was just some bad work units. Very Odd. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 7:54:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5597514FE3 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12949 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905151454.HAA12949@implode.root.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 21:24:19 +1200." <19990515212419.B10435@clear.co.nz> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:54:00 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BTW, this story might be of interest: http://www.msnbc.com/news/255770.asp -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 8: 9:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E92314F87 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Received: from phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no ([IPv6:::ffff:129.241.210.108]:421 "EHLO phoenix.nvg.ntnu.no" ident: "roart") by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <50122-3942>; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:09:20 +0200 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:09:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: large master.passwd In-Reply-To: <199905151425.HAA09266@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 15 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> : > :> :On a site with 20k users in the master.passwd, and where NIS is not > :> :trusted, the master.passwd is distributed to each workstation. > :> :The pwd.db and spwd.db are sized around 10Mb. > :> : > :> :Sometimes, those .db files get corrupt. > :> :I suspect it has something to do with the machines being reset etc before > :> :the sync is finished. (The machines are dual-boot, and there are a lot of > :> :users around.) > :> : > :> :I did some patching, and have not seen corrupted .db-files since. > :> : > :> :So how usable is this patch? > :> :Worth intregrating? > :> > :> What version of FreeBSD are you running? mmap is used heavily with the > :> password DBM's and at least one mmap bug known to cause corruption in > :> those files was fixed a month or two ago. I do not remember whether it > :> was backported to 2.2.x, though. > : > :2.2.8R. > :But planning to upgrade the workstations to 3.1R/3.2R soon. > : > :-Roar Thronæs > > Ok. I'm pretty sure the bug related to the database corruption has > been fixed. It may even be fixed in the 2.2.x branch ( post 2.2.8 ), > but I'm not sure there. If this is the bug I think it is, it is fixed > in 3.x and 4.x. > > Your hack should fix the problem temporarily. One of the mmap() bugs > was related to page unaligned operations. By changing the > cache size from 2K to 8K you probably worked around the bug sufficiently > for your purposes. Sorry. The cache size patch was present when there were corrupt .dbs. -Roar Thronæs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 9:21:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92CC14EC4 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA26827; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:19:54 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <373D9E16.E0122270@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:17:26 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: cmcurtin@interhack.net, dennis@etinc.com, ragnar@sysabend.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Formal methods References: <199905151156.VAA05957@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > | > You cannot test for the abscence of bugs. > | > | You can prove it, though. > > Only if you first prove the operating system and the compiler :-) Nah. These you axiom away. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 9:28:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725AB14EC4 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06250; Sat, 15 May 1999 10:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <373DA0B9.307A1662@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:28:41 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Hopper Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/USENIX Ocean Cruise References: <19990515091422.A17112@ipass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Randall Hopper wrote: > > http://www.geekcruises.com/ > > What a cool idea. > > Maybe we'll see a FreeBSD/USENIX conference on-deck someday. A FreeBSD "Gulls of a Feather?" ;^) They didn't mention if the cabins have 100BaseTX or not. I can offer FreeBSD cruises of the Great Salt Lake, with accomodations for 4, at any time. There are a total of two tiny, cramped cabins, but we do have 8 100BaseTX ports for laptops. Well, 7, one is used by the boat's navigation computer, which looks suspiciously like MY laptop. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 9:33:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C4A15027; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA28238; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:33:47 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <373DA158.62F01B6B@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:31:20 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Formal methods References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <373D5F5C.4D19831F@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > [invariants, pre-conditions, post-conditions] > > As long as programs are written by humans, making human assumptions, > humans will be required to document their assumptions. Such as in modern structured languages. :-) (No, Perl and Python do not qualify! :) Anyway, SPIN does not avoid this, just make it more practical. > One other problem is proof of termination. A computerized proof system > may be able to prove termination of simple loops and some cases of > recursion, but anything more than that gets dangerously close to the > halting problem, which is unsolvable by a deterministic computer. Ghod > knows termination is hard enough to prove for humans... But one can use progress states to determine liveness properties, instead of proving termination. This is a much easier proof, and all that is really needed in most cases. That does not cover all cases, to be sure, and still requires you to know what you are doing, but does not make it unpractical. Finally, there are the partial exaustive searches. A partial exaustive search can cover much more states than a full exaustive search, as it can be restricted to as little as one or two bits of storage for each state. While they do not result in proofs, they do, in practice, find out the bugs. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 9:40:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles550.castles.com [208.214.165.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D0215027 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00584; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905151638.JAA00584@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:49 +0930." <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:38:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > suggest a syntax? The precedent would be the socket ioctls SIOCGIFHWADDR and SIOCSIFHWADDR. The Linux emulator suppors the get-only version already. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 11:57:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD9614C9E for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@walker3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26400 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:22 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:15 -0700 Received: from walker3.apple.com (walker3.apple.com [17.219.24.201]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA33122; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:13 -0700 Received: by walker3.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00620; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905151857.LAA00620@walker3.apple.com> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: Dan Nelson , David Scheidt , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com>; from Dan Nelson on Fri,May 14, 1999 at 09:15:33PM -0500 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:57:11 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Greg Lehey > Date: 1999-05-14 19:21:11 -0700 > To: Dan Nelson > Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address > Cc: David Scheidt ,"Mark J. Taylor" > , Daniel Eischen > ,freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: <19990514211533.A27872@dan.emsphone.com>; from Dan Nelson on > Fri,May 14, 1999 at 09:15:33PM -0500 > Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 > Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 > X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF > Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia > WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog > Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > > On Friday, 14 May 1999 at 21:15:33 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (May 14), David Scheidt said: > >> On Sat, 15 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> :It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like > >> :to suggest a syntax? > >> > >> ifconfig interface ether ab:cd:ef:fe:dc:ab [options] > >> > >> makes sense to me. > > > > And the next step would be to make the kernel realize that two cards > > ifconfig'd with the same MAC address are meant to be bonded together as > > one route (lots of switches support this). I have some machines that > > I'd love to be able to get 20MB/sec bandwidth between transparently. > > I think you need to reconsider that idea. How are you going to double > the bandwidth of the wire? I think Dan's thinking of switched ethernet, with a high-speed switch that can handle the bandwidth. Clearly won't work on thinnet, but with 10BaseT, you (can) have a switch providing increased bandwidth. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 12:12:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9270214C9E for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@walker3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA35286 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:44 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:33 -0700 Received: from walker3.apple.com (walker3.apple.com [17.219.24.201]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA35182; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:31 -0700 Received: by walker3.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00629; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905151912.MAA00629@walker3.apple.com> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: Greg Lehey , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: "Your message of Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:49 +0930."<19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:12:29 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Mike Smith > Date: 1999-05-15 09:40:39 -0700 > To: Greg Lehey > Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address > Cc: "Mark J. Taylor" ,Daniel Eischen > , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: "Your message of Sat, 15 May 1999 11:13:49 > +0930."<19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > > suggest a syntax? > > The precedent would be the socket ioctls SIOCGIFHWADDR and > SIOCSIFHWADDR. The Linux emulator suppors the get-only version > already. It's already been mentioned that some adapters support multiple unicast media addresses (the DEC parts; the on-board enets for (most) PowerPC Macs; ...). It would be good to support aliases for media addresses as well. The 'alias' keyword for ifconfig could be overloaded for this, no? The driver could fail the request if it didn't support it; or if it has run out of slots for aliases. There should also be (I think) a way to tell the driver to go to promiscuous mode to emulate this (an "I really want this" request?), but I'm not sure it should be the default response to the "set hardware address" request. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 13:52:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arg1.demon.co.uk (arg1.demon.co.uk [194.222.34.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF8814BD7 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Received: from localhost (arg@localhost) by arg1.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA27335; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:53:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:53:18 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Gordon X-Sender: arg@server.arg.sj.co.uk To: Jon Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: StarOffice command line args Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-84950218-926801598=:27200" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-84950218-926801598=:27200 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some while ago, Jon Smith wrote: > > Has anyone successfully gotten Star Office 5.0 to run multi-user? > I have just solved this. The problem is that StarOffice accesses the command line arguments (and hence the "/net" flag needed to install multi-user) using the vile /proc/xxx/cmdline mechanism. The FreeBSD implementation of this is a hack that only returns argv[0] and therefore discards any command line arguments. The attached patch is still a hack, but is one step closer to the right answer: it now returns the right answer if the current process reads its own /proc/xxx/cmdline, but still returns only argv[0] if a process attempts to read another process' cmdline. This is enough to solve the StarOffice problem. The reason I haven't done the job properly is that I don't know how to read an address in user-space for a process other than curproc. From the implementation of /proc/xxx/mem, this seems difficult to do. --0-84950218-926801598=:27200 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=procfs-patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: SW5kZXg6IHByb2Nmc19zdGF0dXMuYw0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQ0KUkNTIGZpbGU6IC9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L3NyYy9zeXMvbWlzY2ZzL3Byb2Nm cy9wcm9jZnNfc3RhdHVzLmMsdg0KcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjEy DQpkaWZmIC1jIC1yMS4xMiBwcm9jZnNfc3RhdHVzLmMNCioqKiBwcm9jZnNf c3RhdHVzLmMJMTk5OS8wMS8wNSAwMzo1MzowNgkxLjEyDQotLS0gcHJvY2Zz X3N0YXR1cy5jCTE5OTkvMDUvMTUgMjA6MzY6MTYNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioq Kg0KKioqIDQ3LDUyICoqKioNCi0tLSA0Nyw1NiAtLS0tDQogICNpbmNsdWRl IDxzeXMvdHR5Lmg+DQogICNpbmNsdWRlIDxzeXMvcmVzb3VyY2V2YXIuaD4N CiAgI2luY2x1ZGUgPG1pc2Nmcy9wcm9jZnMvcHJvY2ZzLmg+DQorICNpbmNs dWRlIDx2bS92bS5oPg0KKyAjaW5jbHVkZSA8dm0vcG1hcC5oPg0KKyAjaW5j bHVkZSA8dm0vdm1fcGFyYW0uaD4NCisgI2luY2x1ZGUgPHN5cy9leGVjLmg+ DQogIA0KICBpbnQNCiAgcHJvY2ZzX2Rvc3RhdHVzKGN1cnAsIHAsIHBmcywg dWlvKQ0KKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqDQoqKiogMTY0LDE3OCAqKioqDQogIAkJ cmV0dXJuIChFT1BOT1RTVVBQKTsNCiAgDQogIAkvKg0KISAJICogRm9yIG5v dywgdGhpcyBpcyBhIGhhY2suICBUbyBpbXBsZW1lbnQgdGhpcyBmdWxseSB3 b3VsZCByZXF1aXJlDQohIAkgKiBncm9waW5nIGFyb3VuZCBpbiB0aGUgcHJv Y2VzcyBhZGRyZXNzIHNwYWNlIHRvIGZvbGxvdyBhcmd2IGV0Yy4NCiAgCSAq Lw0KISAJcHMgPSBwc2J1ZjsNCiEgCWJjb3B5KHAtPnBfY29tbSwgcHMsIE1B WENPTUxFTik7DQohIAlwc1tNQVhDT01MRU5dID0gJ1wwJzsNCiEgCXBzICs9 IHN0cmxlbihwcyk7DQohIA0KISAJcHMgKz0gc3ByaW50ZihwcywgIlxuIik7 DQogIA0KICAJeGxlbiA9IHBzIC0gcHNidWY7DQogIAl4bGVuIC09IHVpby0+ dWlvX29mZnNldDsNCi0tLSAxNjgsMjA3IC0tLS0NCiAgCQlyZXR1cm4gKEVP UE5PVFNVUFApOw0KICANCiAgCS8qDQohIAkgKiBUaGlzIGlzIGEgaGFjazog dGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgYmVoYXZpb3VyIGlzIG9ubHkgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQgZm9y DQohIAkgKiB0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBwcm9jZXNzIGVucXVp cmluZyBhYm91dCBpdHMgb3duIGFyZ3YNCiEgCSAqIChkdWUgdG8gdGhlIGRp ZmZpY3VsdHkgb2YgYWNjZXNzaW5nIG90aGVyIHByb2Nlc3NlcycgYWRkcmVz cyBzcGFjZSkuDQohIAkgKiBGb3Igb3RoZXIgY2FzZXMsIHdlIGNvcCBvdXQg YW5kIGp1c3QgcmV0dXJuIGFyZ3ZbMF0gZnJvbSBwLT5wX2NvbW0uDQohIAkg KiBOb3RlIHRoYXQgaWYgdGhlIGFyZ3YgaXMgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSwgd2UgZGVsaWJlcmF0ZWx5DQohIAkgKiBkb24ndCBmYWxsIGJhY2sgb24g cC0+cF9jb21tIG9yIHJldHVybiBhbiBlcnJvcjogdGhlIGF1dGhlbnRpYw0K ISAJICogTGludXggYmVoYXZpb3VyIGlzIHRvIHJldHVybiB6ZXJvLWxlbmd0 aCBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2UuDQogIAkgKi8NCiEgCWlmIChjdXJwcm9jID09IHAp IHsNCiEgCQlzdHJ1Y3QgcHNfc3RyaW5ncyBwc3RyOw0KISAJCWludCBpOw0K ISAJCXNpemVfdCBieXRlc19sZWZ0LCBkb25lOw0KISANCiEgCQllcnJvciA9 IGNvcHlpbigodm9pZCopUFNfU1RSSU5HUywgJnBzdHIsIHNpemVvZihwc3Ry KSk7DQohIAkJaWYgKGVycm9yKSByZXR1cm4gKGVycm9yKTsNCiEgCQlieXRl c19sZWZ0ID0gc2l6ZW9mKHBzYnVmKTsNCiEgCQlwcyA9IHBzYnVmOw0KISAJ CWZvciAoaSA9IDA7IGJ5dGVzX2xlZnQgJiYgKGkgPCBwc3RyLnBzX25hcmd2 c3RyKTsgaSsrKSB7DQohIAkJCWVycm9yID0gY29weWluc3RyKHBzdHIucHNf YXJndnN0cltpXSwgcHMsDQohIAkJCQkgYnl0ZXNfbGVmdCwgJmRvbmUpOw0K ISAJCQkvKiBJZiB0b28gbG9uZyBvciBtYWxmb3JtZWQsIGp1c3QgdHJ1bmNh dGUJKi8NCiEgCQkJaWYgKGVycm9yKSB7DQohIAkJCQllcnJvciA9IDA7DQoh IAkJCQlicmVhazsNCiEgCQkJfQ0KISAJCQlwcyArPSBkb25lOw0KISAJCQli eXRlc19sZWZ0IC09IGRvbmU7DQohIAkJfQ0KISAJfSBlbHNlIHsNCiEgCQlw cyA9IHBzYnVmOw0KISAJCWJjb3B5KHAtPnBfY29tbSwgcHMsIE1BWENPTUxF Tik7DQohIAkJcHNbTUFYQ09NTEVOXSA9ICdcMCc7DQohIAkJcHMgKz0gc3Ry bGVuKHBzKTsNCiEgCX0NCiAgDQogIAl4bGVuID0gcHMgLSBwc2J1ZjsNCiAg CXhsZW4gLT0gdWlvLT51aW9fb2Zmc2V0Ow0K --0-84950218-926801598=:27200-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 14:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA8714F4C for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA10657; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905152117.OAA10657@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Greenman Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905151454.HAA12949@implode.root.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The seti stuff appears to be working again. I think they just had some bad data batches. I'm running it on 6 cpus at idprio. Hmm.. seems to effect responsiveness some, sounds like something in the scheduler that we should be able to fix :-) -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 14:26: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E7114F4C for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA10724; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905152126.OAA10724@apollo.backplane.com> To: David Greenman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905151454.HAA12949@implode.root.com> <199905152117.OAA10657@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This reduces the effect an idprio seti background task has on the rest of the system. sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000 The default is 100,000 ( 100ms ) which, for a modern cpu, is much more chunky then it needs to be. Reducing it to 20ms makes a big difference. At 100000 I can feel the slow response with seti running in the background. At 20000 it is much less pronounced. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 14:51:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65AB14C8F for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id WAA42774; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:51:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:40:44 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:40:42 +0000 To: Matt Curtin From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. Cc: Dennis , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Matt Curtin wrote: > > >>>>> On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:21 -0400, Dennis said: > > Dennis> All software has bugs > > TeX has no bugs. Oh yes it has. [And if Don is reading this list, I think he'd agree my assertion is more credible than yours :-) ] -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 14:55: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C16114DFD for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA44967; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Dillon Cc: David Greenman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <199905152126.OAA10724@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG beware, I think this sysctl does something different on 3.x as I think there was a code freeze on 3.x when we fixed it.. On Sat, 15 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > This reduces the effect an idprio seti background task has on the rest of > the system. > > sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000 > > The default is 100,000 ( 100ms ) which, for a modern cpu, is much more > chunky then it needs to be. Reducing it to 20ms makes a big difference. > At 100000 I can feel the slow response with seti running in the background. > At 20000 it is much less pronounced. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 15: 5:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D32D14C3D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id XAA42887; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:05:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:01:29 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990515091422.A17112@ipass.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:01:26 +0000 To: Randall Hopper From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: FreeBSD/USENIX Ocean Cruise Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:14 am -0400 15/5/99, Randall Hopper wrote: >http://www.geekcruises.com/ > >What a cool idea. > >Maybe we'll see a FreeBSD/USENIX conference on-deck someday. There was a very successful EUUG conference held on the Stockholm - Helsinki Ferry some years ago... -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 16:25:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from galileo.physics.purdue.edu (galileo.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.67.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BA914D3D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonsmith@physics.purdue.edu) Received: from localhost (jonsmith@localhost) by galileo.physics.purdue.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA35910; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:25:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jonsmith@galileo.physics.purdue.edu) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:25:51 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Smith To: Andrew Gordon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StarOffice command line args In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A million and one thanks + tax. Jon Smith On Sat, 15 May 1999, Andrew Gordon wrote: > Some while ago, Jon Smith wrote: > > > > Has anyone successfully gotten Star Office 5.0 to run multi-user? > > > > I have just solved this. The problem is that StarOffice accesses the > command line arguments (and hence the "/net" flag needed to install > multi-user) using the vile /proc/xxx/cmdline mechanism. The FreeBSD > implementation of this is a hack that only returns argv[0] and therefore > discards any command line arguments. > > The attached patch is still a hack, but is one step closer to the right > answer: it now returns the right answer if the current process reads its > own /proc/xxx/cmdline, but still returns only argv[0] if a process > attempts to read another process' cmdline. This is enough to solve the > StarOffice problem. > > The reason I haven't done the job properly is that I don't know how to > read an address in user-space for a process other than curproc. From the > implementation of /proc/xxx/mem, this seems difficult to do. > > > -- "Everywhere I go, there's Jon Smith!" -- Leah Dunlevy "Cars don't kill people.... People kill people." Jonathan Smith To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 16:54:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB5B14E84 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:54:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA51662; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA62251; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905152354.RAA62251@harmony.village.org> To: Kris Kirby Subject: Re: MB86950 Support in the works? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 14:35:22 CDT." <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> References: <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:54:25 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nIn message <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> Kris Kirby writes: : I was wondering if any adventurous individual has looked into writing a : driver for the MB86950 ethernet controller. I have quite a few cards : that use this chip and would be more than willing to acid-test the : driver. (Ever got 1MB/s over coax? :-)) I have a driver that I started for the MB86950[AB] based ethernet cards that I have laying around. However, I got side tracked on higher priority things and haven't gotten back to this yet. I don't have any docs, nor can anybody I know find the docs to this chip. There is some code that could be written from an old packet driver (which is basically what I had done), but that is less than satisfying. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 17: 0: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255B814E84; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06967; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:00:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <373E0A7F.3FCAD1BA@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:59:59 -0600 From: Wes Peters Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd: SourceXChange - get paid for open source Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just received this on the BeDevTalk mailing list, and thought FreeBSD people may be interested in this too. I have directed followups to the -chat list. > HP and O'Reilly have started a web site that allows developers and clients to > find each other for the purpose of writing paid open source code. > > The site is up, but not operating yet. You can sign up for an announcement > mailing list that will let you know when to register. > > http://www.sourcexchange.com -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 20: 8:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CD91503D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jreynold@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16543 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-20-214.phx.primenet.com(206.165.20.214), claiming to be "primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016537; Sat May 15 20:07:17 1999 Message-ID: <373E36C7.6FB9AC22@primenet.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:08:55 -0700 From: John & Jennifer Reynolds X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: VMware--anyone playing with it? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.vmware.com Is anyone playing with that VMware stuff? They say they have tested FreeBSD 2.2.8, 3.0, and 3.1 as "guest OS's" when using the linux software (whatever that means :) ... just wondering if anybody has messed with this. Sure would be nice to have it run under FreeBSD so I could use those occasionally-needed Windud apps that I keep my Win98 partition around for ... -Jr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 21:28:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0000714DD3 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00510 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 00:26:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DK440LX config file Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm moving my main platform from a Tyan Titan 2 to an Intel DK440LX. The Intel DK440LX motherboard has 2 PII 333MHz processors paying rent, but it's got a couple of onboard peripherals that make me want to go prospecting here to see if anyone else, who runs the DK440LX, could ship me their config file (the whole thing) so I can mine out the parts dealing with the disk controller, the sound, and the network interface. This has been a real easy move so far, 'cause I was able to trash the other machine's disks (Solaris, I don't need you anymore!), but it means I have to physically swap disks to get the new kernel moved, so I'm kind of hung up, I sure don't want to have to swap back and forth for testing purposes. Otherwise, I would just use a generic kernel, and test my heart out. Finally junking the NCR875 controller. That's maybe a little harsh (it's been a steady performer) but the new one, with dual independent scsi buses (not electrically linked, really independent) makes be into somewhat of a snob, huh? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7(RIP) --> ???). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 15 22:10:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ewok.creative.net.au (ewok.creative.net.au [203.30.44.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7623414C58 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 6206 invoked by uid 1008); 16 May 1999 05:10:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990516051021.6204.qmail@ewok.creative.net.au> From: adrian@freebsd.org To: Andrew Gordon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StarOffice command line args In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 21:53:18 +0100." Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:10:20 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Some while ago, Jon Smith wrote: >> >> Has anyone successfully gotten Star Office 5.0 to run multi-user? >> > >I have just solved this. The problem is that StarOffice accesses the >command line arguments (and hence the "/net" flag needed to install >multi-user) using the vile /proc/xxx/cmdline mechanism. The FreeBSD >implementation of this is a hack that only returns argv[0] and therefore >discards any command line arguments. > >The attached patch is still a hack, but is one step closer to the right >answer: it now returns the right answer if the current process reads its >own /proc/xxx/cmdline, but still returns only argv[0] if a process >attempts to read another process' cmdline. This is enough to solve the >StarOffice problem. > >The reason I haven't done the job properly is that I don't know how to >read an address in user-space for a process other than curproc. From the >implementation of /proc/xxx/mem, this seems difficult to do. Cool! I'll mess with this and get it going in other processes, and submit the patch to this (I'm assuming here someone will commit it soonish..) Adrian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 0:14:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-b.bcc.ac.uk (mail-b.bcc.ac.uk [144.82.100.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5AD14C0C for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Received: from medphys.ucl.ac.uk (actually host bach.medphys.ucl.ac.uk) by mail-b.bcc.ac.uk with SMTP (XT-PP) with ESMTP; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:14:14 +0100 Received: from marley.medphys (marley [128.40.233.29]) by medphys.ucl.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25735 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:14:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from excite.com by marley.medphys (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA13396; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:14:18 +0100 Message-ID: <373E705D.E8026F48@excite.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:14:37 +0100 From: Dean Lombardo Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: threads and Xlibs? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why does X have multi-thread support disabled by default? Quite a few programs (e.g. freeamp) give nasty "Xlib: unexpected async reply" errors due to making X calls from more than one thread. Now that threads and libc_r are part of the system (and have been for a while), perhaps Xlibs should be built thread-safe? Has anyone trying compiling XFree86 with multi-thread support enabled? Dean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 0:31:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-2.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE0F15199 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id AAA03451; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990516003125.15800@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:25 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Dean Lombardo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads and Xlibs? References: <373E705D.E8026F48@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <373E705D.E8026F48@excite.com>; from Dean Lombardo on Sun, May 16, 1999 at 08:14:37AM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dean Lombardo scribbled this message on May 16: > Why does X have multi-thread support disabled by default? > > Quite a few programs (e.g. freeamp) give nasty "Xlib: unexpected async > reply" errors due to making X calls from more than one thread. > > Now that threads and libc_r are part of the system (and have been for a > while), perhaps Xlibs should be built thread-safe? > > Has anyone trying compiling XFree86 with multi-thread support enabled? yeh, I did that a few months ago using the Xlib direct from the X Consortium, and it's a PITA... I can try updating the port, but there are SOO many hacks to the build environment, that it would probably be better for someone who actually knows the Xlib build environment to go over my patches... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 0:46:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B15F115199 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA27260; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:39:09 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905160539.HAA27260@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD/USENIX Ocean Cruise To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:39:09 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: aa8vb@ipass.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at May 15, 99 11:01:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 777 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >What a cool idea. > > > >Maybe we'll see a FreeBSD/USENIX conference on-deck someday. > > There was a very successful EUUG conference held on the Stockholm - > Helsinki Ferry some years ago... but those things have to do with alchool restrictions/high tax in some nordic country, isn't it ? cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 0:46:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CC5152C0 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12380; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:58:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905160758.RAA12380@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: threads and Xlibs? In-Reply-To: <19990516003125.15800@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "May 16, 1999 0:31:25 am" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:58:51 +1000 (EST) Cc: dlombardo@excite.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Dean Lombardo scribbled this message on May 16: > > Why does X have multi-thread support disabled by default? > > > > Quite a few programs (e.g. freeamp) give nasty "Xlib: unexpected async > > reply" errors due to making X calls from more than one thread. > > > > Now that threads and libc_r are part of the system (and have been for a > > while), perhaps Xlibs should be built thread-safe? > > > > Has anyone trying compiling XFree86 with multi-thread support enabled? > > yeh, I did that a few months ago using the Xlib direct from the > X Consortium, and it's a PITA... I can try updating the port, but there > are SOO many hacks to the build environment, that it would probably be > better for someone who actually knows the Xlib build environment to go > over my patches... There is not much point. You only have one connection to the X server per application context. Using more than one thread per fd leads to confusion as to which thread is supposed to deal with incoming X events and likely creates problems with thread safety in other areas of your application. If you use more than one application context, you get poor behaviour from menu widgets IMHO. It makes more sense to do (as I do) and do all Xlib calls in the initial thread, with child threads to do anything else that can block. In general, having more than one thread per thing that can block is a bad idea. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 1:37: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2C015152 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA19362 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:36:58 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990516183658.I9622@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:36:58 +1000 From: David Dawes To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads and Xlibs? References: <373E705D.E8026F48@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <373E705D.E8026F48@excite.com>; from Dean Lombardo on Sun, May 16, 1999 at 08:14:37AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 16, 1999 at 08:14:37AM +0100, Dean Lombardo wrote: >Why does X have multi-thread support disabled by default? > >Quite a few programs (e.g. freeamp) give nasty "Xlib: unexpected async >reply" errors due to making X calls from more than one thread. > >Now that threads and libc_r are part of the system (and have been for a >while), perhaps Xlibs should be built thread-safe? > >Has anyone trying compiling XFree86 with multi-thread support enabled? If someone who knows enough about the issues would like to sort this out, then we at XFree86 will make the necessary changes. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 1:42:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-2.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099A51521A for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id BAA04113; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990516014219.56752@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:42:19 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Birrell Cc: dlombardo@excite.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads and Xlibs? References: <19990516003125.15800@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199905160758.RAA12380@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199905160758.RAA12380@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sun, May 16, 1999 at 05:58:51PM +1000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell scribbled this message on May 16: > John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Dean Lombardo scribbled this message on May 16: > > > Why does X have multi-thread support disabled by default? > > > > > > Quite a few programs (e.g. freeamp) give nasty "Xlib: unexpected async > > > reply" errors due to making X calls from more than one thread. > > > > > > Now that threads and libc_r are part of the system (and have been for a > > > while), perhaps Xlibs should be built thread-safe? > > > > > > Has anyone trying compiling XFree86 with multi-thread support enabled? > > > > yeh, I did that a few months ago using the Xlib direct from the > > X Consortium, and it's a PITA... I can try updating the port, but there > > are SOO many hacks to the build environment, that it would probably be > > better for someone who actually knows the Xlib build environment to go > > over my patches... > > There is not much point. You only have one connection to the X server > per application context. Using more than one thread per fd leads to > confusion as to which thread is supposed to deal with incoming X events > and likely creates problems with thread safety in other areas of your > application. If you use more than one application context, you get > poor behaviour from menu widgets IMHO. > > It makes more sense to do (as I do) and do all Xlib calls in the initial > thread, with child threads to do anything else that can block. In general, > having more than one thread per thing that can block is a bad idea. yes, but this is what compiling Xlib with threading support is suppose to fix this so that you don't have problems... I haven't exactly looked at what the threading support DOES for Xlib though, but I did manage to make it so that XInitThreads() would return true, but I never did get around to making more exhaustive tests... hmmm... wonder why I don't have libX11.a and friends compiled, I know that I had it when I saved the work off... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 2:24: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0727D1501B for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 02:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA12519; Sun, 16 May 1999 19:36:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905160936.TAA12519@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: threads and Xlibs? In-Reply-To: <19990516014219.56752@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "May 16, 1999 1:42:19 am" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:36:35 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, dlombardo@excite.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney wrote: > yes, but this is what compiling Xlib with threading support is suppose > to fix this so that you don't have problems... I haven't exactly looked > at what the threading support DOES for Xlib though, but I did manage > to make it so that XInitThreads() would return true, but I never did > get around to making more exhaustive tests... But it doesn't solve anything! I'm sorry, but this just sounds naiive to me. You need to understand how a threaded program intacts with an X server. I have built the X libraries with thread support and all I see is locking around accesses to the X server socket. You have no way to synchronise updates to widgets in your application from multiple threads. Unless you often Xflush the X connection and Xsync it, you end up with incomplete refreshes and events at odds with widget private states. If you don't believe me, try writing a threaded graphic animation program for factory process visualisation where refreshes must be exact. If you have more than one thread consuming X events, you will age quickly. If you have more than one thread updating widget states (remember that there is no thread model for widgets), you will happily die young. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 2:48:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.du.gtn.com (mail.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A07614D39 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 02:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by mail.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA22969; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:46:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.2.10]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA04286; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:46:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA48917; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:42 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: "Justin C. Walker" Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990516114842.A48820@cicely8.cicely.de> References: <19990515111348.K89091@freebie.lemis.com> <199905151912.MAA00629@walker3.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905151912.MAA00629@walker3.apple.com>; from Justin C. Walker on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 12:12:29PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 12:12:29PM -0700, Justin C. Walker wrote: > > > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > > > suggest a syntax? > > > > The precedent would be the socket ioctls SIOCGIFHWADDR and > > SIOCSIFHWADDR. The Linux emulator suppors the get-only version > > already. > It's already been mentioned that some adapters support multiple > unicast media addresses (the DEC parts; the on-board enets for (most) > PowerPC Macs; ...). It would be good to support aliases for media > addresses as well. The 'alias' keyword for ifconfig could be > overloaded for this, no? The driver could fail the request if it > didn't support it; or if it has run out of slots for aliases. There > should also be (I think) a way to tell the driver to go to > promiscuous mode to emulate this (an "I really want this" request?), > but I'm not sure it should be the default response to the "set > hardware address" request. An alias would be nice. A standby system must be reachable before it will be active and will need another MAC to be. But I don't see any sence in having more than one MAC on one IP-Address. So talking on IP it should be an optional argument to the ip-alias. -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 2:57:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ewok.creative.net.au (ewok.creative.net.au [203.30.44.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B4E014D6C for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 02:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 7006 invoked by uid 1008); 16 May 1999 09:57:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990516095739.7004.qmail@ewok.creative.net.au> From: adrian@freebsd.org To: Bernd Walter Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:42 +0200." <19990516114842.A48820@cicely8.cicely.de> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:57:38 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> overloaded for this, no? The driver could fail the request if it >> didn't support it; or if it has run out of slots for aliases. There >> should also be (I think) a way to tell the driver to go to >> promiscuous mode to emulate this (an "I really want this" request?), >> but I'm not sure it should be the default response to the "set >> hardware address" request. >An alias would be nice. A standby system must be reachable before it >will be active and will need another MAC to be. >But I don't see any sence in having more than one MAC on one IP-Address. >So talking on IP it should be an optional argument to the ip-alias. Remembering that if you add multiple hw addresses to a single card, you then have to lock down IP addresses to hw addresses or things become very very very confused. Can someone with a little more experience in the IP/arp code explain this one a bit better? Adrian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 3: 0:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.du.gtn.com (mail.du.gtn.com [194.77.9.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432F514D6C for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 03:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely.de [194.231.9.142]) by mail.du.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA23338; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:59:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.2.10]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA04298; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:59:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA48954; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:49 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Steve Rubin Cc: John Milford , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990516120149.B48820@cicely8.cicely.de> References: <199905150328.UAA27064@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> <19990515002636.A28747@tch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990515002636.A28747@tch.org>; from Steve Rubin on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 12:26:37AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 12:26:37AM -0700, Steve Rubin wrote: > This is not how Etherchannel works. Anyone from cisco here care to explain > better than I possibly could? > > On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 08:28:55PM -0700, John Milford wrote: > > > > You have to have the capibility on the switch, and enable it > > first. It is called EtherChannel by Cisco, and it is 2 or 4 ports > > that all have the same MAC addr plugged into the switch, and the > > switch treats them as one interface. > > Yes Etherchannel uses some other mechanism to balance the load. There's another protocol available (from HP I think) which is able to increase the bandwidth with MAC-Addresses. All interfaces send their data with the same sender-MAC and only one interface is used to receive data. There is only an increase on sending data which is good for fileservers. On the receiving side the other interfaces are only used for standby reasons. > > > > Steve Rubin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You need a switch to do this. If your clients are on the same ethernet as > > > > your server, they can only talk to one MAC address. That means you only ge > > t > > > > the bandwidth of one interface. If you have a switch that can bond ports > > > > together, you can use both cards at the same time, transparently to everybo > > dy > > > > but the driver and the switch. I know that NetWare supports this, as do so > > me > > > > Bay switch, and surely some Cisco stuff. > > > > > > > > > > Having 2 ethernet cards with the same mac address on two different ports > > > of all the cisco switches I have used (1100-6500) will confuse the hell > > > out of them :). I've seen it happen. > > > I asume they will disable all "redundance" ports as long as the first one with the MAC-Address in question is active with that MAC. -- B.Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 4: 1:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (unknown [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DAE15299 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 04:01:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id OAA23534 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: bmake and gmake Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fun. Fun. Fun. I am trying to port some software to a system with only gmake and the makefile uses bmake-style conditionals. Is there a good way to convert the conditionals? Here is the offender: .ifmake fastcgi DEFINES += -DFASTCGI CFLAGS+=-I$(FCGIINCLUDEDIR) .endif I really appreciate the help! Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ "Silly penguin, Linux is for kids" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 4:49:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FFF15389 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 04:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexlh@funk.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02360; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:49:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Alex Le Heux To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Via: imploder /usr/local/lib/mail/news2mail/news2mail at smtp2.xs4all.nl Subject: Re: fsck and large file system Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:48:41 +0000 Organization: XS4ALL Internet BV Message-ID: <373ECCB9.34648FFA@funk.org> In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Carroll wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone has done any work on fsck and very large file > systems. We have a system that has 126 GB RAID Array. As you can imagine, > fsck chokes trying to alloc enough blocks to store it's internal data > structures (128 MB RAM, 128 MB Swap) > > We would like to treat this array as a single large disk, and was wondering > if anyone else had run into this situation, and had a work around. > > Note: I know we could just partition the array to two smaller systems > (which is what we are planning to do if we can't get past this), but I > thought I'd take a shot and see if anyone else had a work around. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but didn't I read somewhere that with softupdates it would theoretically be possible to boot the system before the fsck and fsck while it's running? Can anyone comment on this? Alex -- +--------------------------------+-------------------+ | SMTP: | E-Gold: 101979 | | ICBM: N52 22.647' E4 51.555' | PGP: 0x1d512a3f | +--------------------------------+-------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 5:15:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD87015407 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 05:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@speedy.ludd.luth.se) Received: from speedy.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@speedy.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.164]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18356; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:15:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199905161215.OAA18356@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Bernd Walter Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pantzer@zed.ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: Message from Bernd Walter of "Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:49 +0200." <19990516120149.B48820@cicely8.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:15:35 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 12:26:37AM -0700, Steve Rubin wrote: > > This is not how Etherchannel works. Anyone from cisco here care to explain > > better than I possibly could? > > > > On Fri, May 14, 1999 at 08:28:55PM -0700, John Milford wrote: > > > > > > You have to have the capibility on the switch, and enable it > > > first. It is called EtherChannel by Cisco, and it is 2 or 4 ports > > > that all have the same MAC addr plugged into the switch, and the > > > switch treats them as one interface. > > > > Yes Etherchannel uses some other mechanism to balance the load. > There's another protocol available (from HP I think) which is able to increase > the bandwidth with MAC-Addresses. > All interfaces send their data with the same sender-MAC and only one interface > is used to receive data. > There is only an increase on sending data which is good for fileservers. > On the receiving side the other interfaces are only used for standby reasons. That to needs support in the switch, or it will go nuts. This is from the manual for a HP 4000M switch: Trunk Operation Using the Trunk (Source Address/Destination Address, or SA/DA) Option This method provides the best means for evenly distributing traffic over trunked links to devices. Configuring the Trunk (SA/DA) option for a port trunk causes the switch to distribute traffic in a sequential manner to the links within the trunk on the basis of source/destination pairs. That is, traffic from the same source address to the same destination addresses will travel over the same trunked link. Traffic from the same source address but meant for different destination addresses will be distributed across different links. Likewise, traffic for the same destination address but from different source addresses will be distrib-uted across different links. Because of this feature, broadcasts, multicasts, and floods from different source addresses are distributed evenly across the links. As links are added or deleted, traffic will be redistributed across the trunk. For example, in the three-port trunk shown below, traffic could be assigned as shown in the table below. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 6: 0:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tch.org (tacostand.tch.org [199.74.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB456152F3 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 06:00:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser@tch.org) Received: (from ser@localhost) by tch.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA51577; Sun, 16 May 1999 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 06:00:26 -0700 From: Steve Rubin To: Bernd Walter Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Message-ID: <19990516060025.A51560@tch.org> References: <199905150328.UAA27064@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> <19990515002636.A28747@tch.org> <19990516120149.B48820@cicely8.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990516120149.B48820@cicely8.cicely.de>; from Bernd Walter on Sun, May 16, 1999 at 12:01:49PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes Etherchannel uses some other mechanism to balance the load. Its acually worse :) Cisco Etherchannel requires the device attached to speak a special protocol to keep things working. You can not just take any system, put 2 NIC's in it plug it into a cisco switch, and expect it to work. It wont (well, atleast it wont have the desired result). If you turn on fast etherchannel on the port, the switch will expect to be able to talk to the device with the "etherchannel" protocol. If it cant, it will not activate the ports. But I do beleive it is worthwhile for us to support this, I beleive the spec is open? I will check with cisco. -- Steve Rubin - ser@tch.org - http://www.tch.org/~ser/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 6: 4:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90624154F9 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 06:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA76357; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:46:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:46:27 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Kelly Yancey Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bmake and gmake Message-ID: <19990516134627.A76043@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Kelly Yancey on Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 02:53:00PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 08, 1999 at 02:53:00PM -0400, Kelly Yancey wrote: > Fun. Fun. Fun. I am trying to port some software to a system with > only gmake and the makefile uses bmake-style conditionals. Is there a good > way to convert the conditionals? Here is the offender: Not sure. It might be simpler to port bmake, try N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 10:51:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fasterix.frmug.org (d181.paris-84.cybercable.fr [212.198.84.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B9914E40; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from pb@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/pb-19990315) id TAA22072; Sun, 16 May 1999 19:51:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19990516195110.A22057@fasterix.frmug.fr.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:51:10 +0200 From: Pierre Beyssac To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD, GPL, the world today. References: <199905131530.LAA04222@etinc.com> <373CB22B.4843BD45@softweyr.com> <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.8i In-Reply-To: <19990515014823.A82329@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 01:48:23AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 01:48:23AM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > Didn't Knuth say "I've only proven TeX to be correct, I haven't tested > it" or some such? That's a quote in /usr/src/games/fortune/datfiles/fortunes: "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth -- Pierre Beyssac pb@fasterix.frmug.org pb@fasterix.freenix.org {Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 12:57:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8AD1512C; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from updates-request@wotsit.org) Received: from smtp.yourwebhost.com (smtp.yourwebhost.com [209.239.47.254]) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28612 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:24:03 -0400 Received: from anna.yourwebhost.com (diningasia.com [209.239.47.175]) by smtp.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA08838; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:54:41 -0400 Received: (from wotsit@localhost) by anna.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA27029; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:56:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: anna.yourwebhost.com: wotsit set sender to updates-request@wotsit.org using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990516204002.0096f470@pop3.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: wotsit@pop3.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:40:02 +0100 To: updates@wotsit.org From: Paul Oliver Subject: Wotsit's Format Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1 X-Loop: updates@wotsit.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The programmer's resource at http://www.wotsit.org has been updated again. I apologise for the lack of update E-mails recently, I have now implemented the update list in a different way which should make the process work better. 18 files have been added or modified in the last 7 days, use the "Wot's New" search facility on the site to view the list. If you have any useful programming information to share, or can suggest improvements to the site, or suggest different categories for files... please get in touch. /-----------------------------------------------------------------\ |The Programmers File Formats Collection| Wotsit's Format | | http://www.wotsit.org |Mail:webmaster@wotsit.org| \-----------------------------------------------------------------/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 13:15:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8781525D for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Kp) with ESMTP id VAA95380 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:15:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <373F2708.17F69208@tdx.co.uk> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:14:00 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Changing face of ISA/Device Drivers - Perfect model? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I've had an ISA character device driver which I wrote ages ago, under 2.2.5, it made it through 2.2.x into 3.0 (just about), but it's blatently not going to make it through the recent transitions into 4.0 [I've not had enough time to keep it up to date etc.] I've looked through the 4.X drivers, but they all seem to do things slightly differently... My question is, which is 'best' as a reference driver? - Are /usr/share/example/drivers/* up to date enough to use as a 'good example', or can anyone afford me any time to help me through getting the thing running again? The driver is a simple ISA/Character driver - at it's heart it just reads/writes bytes to a few I/O ports, and controls a couple of timer chips... Thanks, Karl Pielorz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 13:19:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles551.castles.com [208.214.165.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D6514D73 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07860; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905162005.NAA07860@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Stan Shkolny" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmapbuf (was:Which O/S routines are subject to change?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 10:06:00 CDT." <00e001be9bbf$c8961390$500a0a0a@stan166> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:05:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My character device driver receives a pointer to a user data buffer in the > user's address space. I need to DMA those data. For this, I need to bring > the pages into memory and lock them before initiating the DMA. > > My book tells about physio(). However, I found it unconvenient for me. > One reason is that its functionality doesn't fit well into my driver's > architecture. You should architect your driver to suit the way the kernel wants to do things; that's generally the role of a driver, to shim between the kernel and the hardware. If you find your driver architecture isn't fitting the kernel well, you need to fix your driver. > In other words, I want to write my own routine. > > In general, physio() looks like this: > > if useracc() > vmapbuf() > *strategy() > vunmapbuf() > endif > > And vmapbuf() like this: > > vm_fault_quick() > vm_page_hold() > pmap_kenter() // maps the memory into the kernel space > > And I want to write something like this in my driver: > if useracc() > vm_fault_quick() > vm_page_hold() > > endif > > So, is this likely for the above 3 functions to change or disappear in the > next versions? Can they be considered "stable"? No, I don't think so. physio() is the "exported" interface for this sort of thing. If there are performance defects with using physio they should be fixed there. All your custom interface wins you is not mapping the buffer into the kernel space, but this will actually hurt you down the track when you try to do the DMA, as it's much harder to traslate the user virtual address into a physical address when you do the DMA setup. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 13:22:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B968114D73; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:22:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@walker3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA33354; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:22:13 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (scv4.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:22:05 -0700 Received: from walker3.apple.com (walker3.apple.com [17.219.24.201]) by scv4.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29088; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:20:22 -0700 Received: by walker3.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA00766; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905162022.NAA00766@walker3.apple.com> To: adrian@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Cc: Bernd Walter , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: "Your message of Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:42 +0200."<19990516114842.A48820@cicely8.cicely.de> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:22:05 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: adrian@FreeBSD.ORG > Date: 1999-05-16 04:59:51 -0700 > To: Bernd Walter > Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > In-reply-to: "Your message of Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:42 > +0200."<19990516114842.A48820@cicely8.cicely.de> > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >> overloaded for this, no? The driver could fail the request if it > >> didn't support it; or if it has run out of slots for aliases. There > >> should also be (I think) a way to tell the driver to go to > >> promiscuous mode to emulate this (an "I really want this" request?), > >> but I'm not sure it should be the default response to the "set > >> hardware address" request. > > >An alias would be nice. A standby system must be reachable before it > >will be active and will need another MAC to be. > >But I don't see any sence in having more than one MAC on one IP-Address. > >So talking on IP it should be an optional argument to the ip-alias. > > Remembering that if you add multiple hw addresses to a single card, you then > have to lock down IP addresses to hw addresses or things become very > very very confused. > > Can someone with a little more experience in the IP/arp code explain this > one a bit better? I'm just waving my hands here, but first, I think drivers should be able to provide this "service" without getting too hung up in the implications (i.e., they just pass incoming data up the line and let another piece of the system deal with it; and for output, they take fully-formed packets and get the bits on the wire [I did say I was hand-waving]). I think the upper layers might be able to keep this stuff straight, e.g., by providing virtual interfaces above the physical, to discriminate on physical addresses. Also, this isn't IP-specific, since the Mac makes use of this capability for support of "other OSs and their [unprintable] stacks" (this in response to the concern that about more than one MAC address per IP address). Being able to use this functionality may take a bit more engineering, but it seems that there is good reason to consider it as part of the "driver interface". Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 14:58:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles551.castles.com [208.214.165.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE97014C91 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08351; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:43:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905162143.OAA08351@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: kip@lyris.com Cc: hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: problems with recursion in libc_r In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 May 1999 16:17:30 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:43:42 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Should I actually think about changes to make, or should I simply hold off > and let more experienced kernel hackers take care of the fixes? If you have the time and motivation to produce changes, please do indeed do so. You'll achieve best results by establishing a relationship with one or more committers, so that you have a direct vector for having your changes tested and committed. > However, before I start making any modifications to FreeBSD I would like > to know that the changes I make will actually be incorporated, so that I > will not suffer the same fate as PAO, namely having to reincorporate my > changes each new release. If you work with us, rather than developing in isolation, there is little danger of this. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 15: 1:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8812F14C91 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA29509; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: <006501be9fe7$b3217a50$500a0a0a@stan166> From: "Stan Shkolny" To: "Mike Smith" Cc: Subject: Re: vmapbuf (was:Which O/S routines are subject to change?) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:01:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Mike Smith Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 3:08 PM >> My character device driver receives a pointer to a user data buffer in the >> user's address space. I need to DMA those data. For this, I need to bring >> the pages into memory and lock them before initiating the DMA. >> >> My book tells about physio(). However, I found it unconvenient for me. >> One reason is that its functionality doesn't fit well into my driver's >> architecture. > >You should architect your driver to suit the way the kernel wants to do >things; that's generally the role of a driver, to shim between the >kernel and the hardware. If you find your driver architecture isn't >fitting the kernel well, you need to fix your driver. This is generally true, particularly if you develop the driver targeted to a single operating system. In my case, the task was to design it in such a way that it would work with minimal customizations in NT and FreeBSD. And the function that "pages-in and locks the memory" was left to be written differently for each O/S. The reason for such approach was that the device itself is not alike any of "conventional" I/O devices, for which O/S has pre-defined and suitable framework. Hence, the "framework" needed to be written from scratch, and that made it possible to think about porting it to different systems. And indeed, when I made it work under NT and then ported to FreeBSD, I found that O/S-independent code comprised 75%. (BTW, I found it very-very-VERY helpful that I did it first under NT, since NT has kernel-mode debugger :-). The device is a compression processor. It's basic operation involves _2_ data buffers, source and destination, and some control information. So, each its operation is "input" and "output" at the same time. I found neither NT nor FreeBSD having explicit support for such a beast. > >> In other words, I want to write my own routine. >> >> In general, physio() looks like this: >> >> if useracc() >> vmapbuf() >> *strategy() >> vunmapbuf() >> endif >> >> And vmapbuf() like this: >> >> vm_fault_quick() >> vm_page_hold() >> pmap_kenter() // maps the memory into the kernel space >> >> And I want to write something like this in my driver: >> if useracc() >> vm_fault_quick() >> vm_page_hold() >> >> endif >> >> So, is this likely for the above 3 functions to change or disappear in the >> next versions? Can they be considered "stable"? > >No, I don't think so. physio() is the "exported" interface for this >sort of thing. If there are performance defects with using physio they >should be fixed there. All your custom interface wins you is not >mapping the buffer into the kernel space, but this will actually hurt >you down the track when you try to do the DMA, as it's much harder to >traslate the user virtual address into a physical address when you do >the DMA setup. Honestly, Mike, I'd really like to go physio() way, but I feel it would be much easier to re-write my "paging-in" function for a new version of FreeBSD than to try to fit the driver into physio() scheme. The function is not very big and seemed to work on my first recent testing of the driver, though. If you would like to take a look, I can send it, but it generally follows the scheme I described. It would be nice to have such a functionality "legally" exported by the O/S, like physio(). I'm sure many would appreciate it. Do you think this is a wrong idea? It already has mlock(), but drivers too need such a thing. And I have one more question, of strategical kind. I heard about Alpha port of FreeBSD. As far as I know, on Alphas, not only processor accesses the RAM through virtual address translation process, but master DMA devices too. What effect will it have on FreeBSD? On Alpha, vtophys() would certainly not be sufficient. NT already has suitable DMA architecture for this. What about FreeBSD? Regards, Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 15: 3: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BD914C91 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:02:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA52023; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905162201.SAA52023@cs.rpi.edu> To: Bernd Walter Cc: "Justin C. Walker" , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , "Mark J. Taylor" , Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: Message from Bernd Walter of "Sun, 16 May 1999 11:48:42 +0200." <19990516114842.A48820@cicely8.cicely.de> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:01:39 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > It seems there's a need, and the possibility. Would somebody like to > > > > suggest a syntax? > > > > > > The precedent would be the socket ioctls SIOCGIFHWADDR and > > > SIOCSIFHWADDR. The Linux emulator suppors the get-only version > > > already. > > It's already been mentioned that some adapters support multiple > > unicast media addresses (the DEC parts; the on-board enets for (most) > > PowerPC Macs; ...). It would be good to support aliases for media > > addresses as well. The 'alias' keyword for ifconfig could be > > overloaded for this, no? The driver could fail the request if it > > didn't support it; or if it has run out of slots for aliases. There > > should also be (I think) a way to tell the driver to go to > > promiscuous mode to emulate this (an "I really want this" request?), > > but I'm not sure it should be the default response to the "set > > hardware address" request. > An alias would be nice. A standby system must be reachable before it > will be active and will need another MAC to be. > But I don't see any sence in having more than one MAC on one IP-Address. > So talking on IP it should be an optional argument to the ip-alias. The linux method reeks of layer violation. I would suggest implimenting AF_LINK and using the already supported SIOC*ADDR routines on the AF_LINK socket. With that those IOCTLs there is already support for getting, setting and adding aliases. We do obviously need to support the other in linux-compat mode. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 16: 0:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F72614C96 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 1506 invoked from network); 16 May 1999 23:00:32 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.outpost.co.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by queasy.outpost.co.nz.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 16 May 1999 23:00:32 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:00:14 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: jabley@clear.co.nz In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-Id: <19990516230039.6F72614C96@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe Abley wrote: > I compiled the 1.1 client for FreeBSD3.1 -- what seems to be the > problem with it? [It seemed to work ok for me, but I admit I didn't > test it very exhaustively]. I'm running it on a P166 box running 3.1, and it's running quite happily. As an aside: I noticed on the seti@home page, in the top user and machine states, there are machines supposedly running i386 architectures, under Windows NT, getting 9minutes of CPU time per work unit. As I understand it, the seti@home clients report the CPU time per running process and the recorded stats average across the multiple processes, so N multiple machines under a single email address will not simply result in an apparent CPU time per work unit of actual_time_per_work_unit/N. With that in mind, what the hell are these i386 based machines that achieve a CPU speed two orders of magnitude greater than my P166? (and my Win96 Celeron 416MHz for that matter). Followups set to freebsd-chat. -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 16:18:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A3515030 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA75741; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:17:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199905162317.QAA75741@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: <373ECCB9.34648FFA@funk.org> from Alex Le Heux at "May 16, 99 01:48:41 pm" To: alexlh@funk.org (Alex Le Heux) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Le Heux writes: > Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but didn't I read somewhere that with > softupdates it would theoretically be possible to boot the system before > the fsck and fsck while it's running? Yes.. if you make the assumptions that: 1. There are no bugs in the soft updates code 2. Your disk always writes its blocks atomically Then it follows that the only disk inconsistencies that are possible during any boot-up are minor ones (eg, bitmap entry showing an allocated block that's not pointed to by anything) that can be fixed by a background daemon running at its leisure. As a consequence of doing this, your may have free, but temporarily unavailable, disk blocks for a while until the daemon finishes. Julian et.al. can correct me if I've left something out.. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 17:17:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jane.lfn.org (brinternational.com [209.16.92.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E75E014C25 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 2622 invoked by uid 100); 17 May 1999 00:17:17 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:17:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Johnston To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fsck and large file systems In-Reply-To: <199905162317.QAA75741@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 16 May 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Alex Le Heux writes: > > Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but didn't I read somewhere that with > > softupdates it would theoretically be possible to boot the system before > > the fsck and fsck while it's running? > > Yes.. if you make the assumptions that: > > 1. There are no bugs in the soft updates code > 2. Your disk always writes its blocks atomically > > Then it follows that the only disk inconsistencies that are possible > during any boot-up are minor ones (eg, bitmap entry showing an allocated > block that's not pointed to by anything) that can be fixed by a background > daemon running at its leisure. As a consequence of doing this, your may > have free, but temporarily unavailable, disk blocks for a while until > the daemon finishes. Can we assume that the above is a goal we're aiming for at some point in the foreseeable future? That'd be real sweet. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 20:12:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BE31523C for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA54231 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905170312.XAA54231@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ASUS P2B-DS and SMP Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:12:44 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I dug through the archives and found peopel with similiar problems to what I am experiencing, but I didn't find any answers that have worked for me. Here are the problem I am having: 1: The built-in SCSI ROM is v2.01, there was mention of BIOS 1008 including 2.11. I applied the 1008 flash and I am still v2.01 (I don't know if this matters at all) 2: Top doesn't work. I see all of my processes gaining CPU time, but none show any percentage of CPU in top. When I *first* boot my system I see percentages for a short time, then they degrade to 0.00%. I also see 0.00% of my CPU is in use (the very head of the top screen) 0.00% idle, 0.00% system, 0.00% nice, 0.00% user. Again, this works briefly after a reboot. The suggestion I found was that this was fixed some time after 3.1-STABLE. I am running 3.2-BETA from earlier today. 3: Performance. It seems after awhile my second CPU stops responding. I run setiathome v1.1 and check the output of each, they start out in sync, but eventually one of them stops doing work; yet it still accumulates CPU time?!? 4: Responsiveness. It sucks. I am convinced this has to do with the earlier problems... my processes get sent to the stuck CPU for awhile. It also seems that the secondary CPU is running much cooler to the touch than the first, this would seem to support the theory it is diong less work, although it does have *slightly* better circulation. Of course as I say this I cannot proove that one of the CPUs is stuck (both my SETIs are in sync and staying that way). The system still feels very much slower than it should, with long pauses often. Below are my dmesg and config. --DMESG-- Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Wed May 17 06:26:30 EDT 2000 root@phoenix.home:/usr/src/sys/compile/PHOENIX_DUAL Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium II/Xeon/Celeron (686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x652 Stepping=2 Features=0x183fbff> real memory = 268435456 (262144K bytes) avail memory = 257888256 (251844K bytes) Programming 24 pins in IOAPIC #0 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard cpu0 (BSP): apic id: 1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 cpu1 (AP): apic id: 0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 io0 (APIC): apic id: 2, version: 0x00170011, at 0xfec00000 Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02e8000. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x03 on pci0.1.0 chip2: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x01 on pci0.4.1 chip3: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.3 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 19 on pci0.6.0 ahc0: aic7890/91 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs xl0: <3Com 3c900-TPO Etherlink XL> rev 0x00 int a irq 18 on pci0.10.0 xl0: Ethernet address: 00:60:08:a9:db:e2 xl0: selecting 10baseT transceiver, half duplex Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: vga0: rev 0x04 int a irq 16 on pci1.0.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <12 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 irq 12 on isa psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 6149MB (12594960 sectors), 13328 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd1: 4924MB (10085040 sectors), 10672 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis acd0: drive speed 689KB/sec, 128KB cache acd0: supported read types: acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, dma, iordy acd1: drive speed 0KB/secacd1: supported read types: acd1: Mechanism: caddy acd1: Medium: CD-ROM unknown medium ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/9 bytes threshold ppb0: IEEE1284 device found /NIBBLE Probing for PnP devices on ppbus0: ppbus0: HP ENHANCED PCL5,PJL 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x310 ep0 at 0x310-0x31f irq 11 on isa ep0: utp[*UTP*] address 00:a0:24:12:8d:10 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa APIC_IO: Testing 8254 interrupt delivery APIC_IO: routing 8254 via pin 2 IP packet filtering initialized, divert enabled, rule-based forwarding disabled, unlimited logging Waiting 2 seconds for SCSI devices to settle SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 80.000MB/s transfers (40.000MHz, offset 31, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 8683MB (17783250 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates --config-- machine "i386" cpu "I686_CPU" ident PHOENIX_DUAL maxusers 256 options FAILSAFE options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel config kernel root on wd0s2a options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "MD5" options UCONSOLE options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options "NO_F00F_HACK" options SOFTUPDATES options DDB options DDB_UNATTENDED pseudo-device ether #Generic Ethernet pseudo-device loop #Network loopback device pseudo-device bpfilter 8 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device tun 4 options INET #Internet communications protocols # options NETATALK options IPFIREWALL options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options IPDIVERT options FFS #Fast filesystem options FFS_ROOT options NFS #Network File System options MSDOSFS #MS DOS File System options KERNFS #Kernel Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" options KTRACE options PERFMON options USER_LDT pseudo-device pty 256 #Pseudo ttys - can go as high as 256 pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn 4 #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) controller isa0 device sc0 at isa? tty options MAXCONS=12 # number of virtual consoles controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 options "CMD640" #options "AUTO_EOI_1" #options "AUTO_EOI_2" controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM device acd0 device acd1 device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD tty device atkbd0 at isa? tty irq 1 device psm0 at isa? tty irq 12 device vga0 at isa? port ? conflicts device ppc0 at isa? port? net irq 7 controller ppbus0 device nlpt0 at ppbus? device ep0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 device xl0 controller pci0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device da0 #SCSI disks device sa0 #SCSI tapes controller smbus0 controller iicbus0 controller iicbb0 device bktr0 at iicbus? device ic0 at iicbus? device iic0 at iicbus? device iicsmb0 at iicbus? device smb0 at smbus? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 21:34:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA24150DE; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA24095; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:04:25 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA97739; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:04:23 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:04:23 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Heffner Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging Message-ID: <19990517140423.Y89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Heffner on Sun, May 16, 1999 at 11:03:11PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [moved to -hackers] On Sunday, 16 May 1999 at 23:03:11 -0500, Mike Heffner wrote: > > I would like to trace the source of a panic during boot time. How do I compile > the boot loader code in DEBUG mode? I tried defining DEBUG with make, but it > didn't work. What's the _right_ way to compile specific code with debug mode > set. If there's a url for this, please let me know. This is probably a better candidate for -hackers, so I've moved it there. You have a basic problem that you can't take a dump until you have a dump device. If you panic before that, you're limited to ddb or serial gdb. There's some stuff in the online handbook about how to set up serial gdb, and in LINT about how to set up ddb. Note that the flags for the serial device have changed in *some* versions of FreeBSD, so check your LINT file for the correct flags. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 23:12:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6C41545B for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.cc) Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889E01F33; Mon, 17 May 1999 01:11:40 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine To: John & Jennifer Reynolds Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <373E36C7.6FB9AC22@primenet.com> References: <373E36C7.6FB9AC22@primenet.com> Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:11:40 -0500 Message-Id: <19990517061140.889E01F33@spawn.nectar.cc> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15 May 1999 at 20:08, John & Jennifer Reynolds wrote: [snip] > Is anyone playing with that VMware stuff? [snip] It doesn't run on FreeBSD, only on Linux and Windows NT. Pity, because it is very neat. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 16 23:42:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 685141506A for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:42:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 4406 invoked by uid 1001); 17 May 1999 06:42:23 +0000 (GMT) To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS P2B-DS and SMP From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 May 1999 23:12:44 -0400" References: <199905170312.XAA54231@cs.rpi.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:42:23 +0200 Message-ID: <4404.926923343@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1: The built-in SCSI ROM is v2.01, there was mention of BIOS 1008 including > 2.11. I applied the 1008 flash and I am still v2.01 (I don't know if > this matters at all) At least for the P2B-S, you need 1008B, not 1008. The file I got from ftp.asus.com is: rw-r--r-- 1 sthaug 1001 181106 Apr 16 17:41 bx2s108b.zip and this got me the v2.11 Adaptec BIOS. I don't know if it's the same for P2B-DS. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 1:57:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35EB1551E for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 01:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA51808; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:58:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:58:10 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <19990517140423.Y89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > [moved to -hackers] > > On Sunday, 16 May 1999 at 23:03:11 -0500, Mike Heffner wrote: > > > > I would like to trace the source of a panic during boot time. How do I compile > > the boot loader code in DEBUG mode? I tried defining DEBUG with make, but it > > didn't work. What's the _right_ way to compile specific code with debug mode > > set. If there's a url for this, please let me know. > > This is probably a better candidate for -hackers, so I've moved it there. > > You have a basic problem that you can't take a dump until you have a > dump device. If you panic before that, you're limited to ddb or > serial gdb. There's some stuff in the online handbook about how to > set up serial gdb, and in LINT about how to set up ddb. Note that the > flags for the serial device have changed in *some* versions of > FreeBSD, so check your LINT file for the correct flags. I don't think LINT in current mentions the new debug flag. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 1:59:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449381551E for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 01:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA56066; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:58:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "Stan Shkolny" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: vmapbuf (was:Which O/S routines are subject to change?) References: <006501be9fe7$b3217a50$500a0a0a@stan166> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 May 1999 10:58:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Stan Shkolny"'s message of "Sun, 16 May 1999 17:01:50 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Stan Shkolny" writes: > [...] (BTW, I found it very-very-VERY helpful > that I did it first under NT, since NT has kernel-mode debugger :-). Oh, and FreeBSD doesn't? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 2:25:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01D014BF4 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19686; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:25:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 19683; Mon May 17 11:24:42 1999 Message-ID: <373FE077.70243CE1@cdsec.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:25:11 +0200 From: Graham Wheeler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John & Jennifer Reynolds Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? References: <373E36C7.6FB9AC22@primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John & Jennifer Reynolds wrote: > > http://www.vmware.com > > Is anyone playing with that VMware stuff? They say they have tested > FreeBSD 2.2.8, 3.0, and 3.1 as "guest OS's" when using the linux > software (whatever that means :) ... just wondering if anybody has > messed with this. Sure would be nice to have it run under FreeBSD so > I could use those occasionally-needed Windud apps that I keep my Win98 > partition around for ... When the beta was first announced, there was a small but concerted effort amongst readers of this list to send mail to VMWare requesting that they consider supporting FreeBSD as a host O/S, not just a guest O/S. So, add your voice and send them some mail... -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)423-6065/6/7 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 2:57:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.promo.de (mail.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC1514DE7 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from d225.promo.de (d225.Promo.DE [194.45.188.225]) by mail.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02391; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:56:34 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: Matthew Dillon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <376063.3135930994@d225.promo.de> In-Reply-To: <199905142017.NAA03939@apollo.backplane.com> Originator-Info: login-id=stefan; server=mail X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.3, s/n U-301177] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > For people who have idle cpu to spare, this is a good time to start > putting those cycles to good use with the Seti project! The project > has been running a beta test for a while, but as of May 13th 1999 = they > reset the stats and introduced new clients for Unix, Windows, and = the > Mac. > > I recommend that FreeBSDrs download the FreeBSD3.1 client, even if > you are running 4.x, so our stats do not split up. If you are > already running the seti client, you need to download a new rev! I've just updated the port to v1.1. Beware, however: all versions for FreeBSD try to invoke /usr/lib/sendmail to send mail, instead of /usr/sbin/sendmail. A fix is in the works, or so I am told by the relevant SETI@home people. Stefan -- M=FChlendamm 12 | Voice +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22089 Hamburg | e-mail: stefan.bethke@hanse.de Germany | stb@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 6: 1:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F4314D4A for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port14.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.14]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11626 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905171301.JAA11626@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:04:09 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: assembly listing from crash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is required to get an assembly listing of the crashpoint when analyzing a crash dump? thanks, Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 6:42:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.airnet.net (unknown [216.180.30.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 515BA1500F for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (216.180.35.38) by alpha.airnet.net (Worldmail 1.3.167); 17 May 1999 08:42:11 -0500 Message-ID: <37401CDA.3F86A145@airnet.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:42:50 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MB86950 Support in the works? References: <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Yes, I've experienced sustained transfer rates in excess of 1 MBps on > a 10Base2 network, with FreeBSD 3.1 using an SMC based Kingston EtherX > (ISA PnP NE2000 clone thingamabob) in one end and a nondescript Linux > box in the other end. Two FreeBSD boxes (3.0-R and 2.2.8) with PCI NE2000's. -- Kris Kirby Home UAH CS WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 6:54: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2891504E for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10018; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:53:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37401F68.6EF1E361@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:53:44 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh Cc: Kris Kirby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MB86950 Support in the works? References: <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> <199905152354.RAA62251@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > > nIn message <373B297A.97302414@airnet.net> Kris Kirby writes: > : I was wondering if any adventurous individual has looked into writing a > : driver for the MB86950 ethernet controller. I have quite a few cards > : that use this chip and would be more than willing to acid-test the > : driver. (Ever got 1MB/s over coax? :-)) > > I have a driver that I started for the MB86950[AB] based ethernet > cards that I have laying around. However, I got side tracked on > higher priority things and haven't gotten back to this yet. I don't > have any docs, nor can anybody I know find the docs to this chip. They have apparently taken the 86950 docs off the Fujitsu Micro web site, I find only the 86960 and above. Contact your local Fujitsu distributor, I'm sure they will be happy to provide you with hardcopy or PDF documentation of the 86950 part. You can find your local representative or distributor on their web page by clicking on the "how to buy" link. http://www.fujitsumicro.com/ > There is some code that could be written from an old packet driver > (which is basically what I had done), but that is less than > satisfying. "Tastes terrible! Less filling!" ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 7:16:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay4.mail.uk.psi.net (relay4.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.111.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B461559D for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk) Received: from mail.plasmon.co.uk ([193.115.5.217]) by relay4.mail.uk.psi.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10jOBG-0004wl-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:15:47 +0100 Received: by mail.plasmon.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 80256774.004E1F2B ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:13:17 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: PLASNOTES From: amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <80256774.004E1E08.00@mail.plasmon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:13:14 +0100 Subject: Wired memory "leaking" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've got a problem that my KLD is "leaking" wired memory. It's not actually growing in size, vmstat -m shows a fairly constant allocation, and certainly "high" isn't increasing. It's just that as I use it more, and more memory gets wired down, and the system becomes unusable. I've tried both using my own MALLOC_DEFINE memory type and a system type (M_TEMP) with no difference. All I'm doing is straight-forward malloc/free, surely I don't have to call vm_page_unwire myself? Would it be a problem if memory malloced by one KLD was being freed in another? I'm (still) using 3.0-RELEASE. Thanks in advance for any help. Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 8:20:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF3D156F8 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA08691; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905171519.IAA08691@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: John & Jennifer Reynolds , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:19:25 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999 01:11:40 -0500 Jacques Vidrine wrote: > It doesn't run on FreeBSD, only on Linux and Windows NT. Pity, because > it is very neat. I think the Connectix Virtual PC is cooler; VMware only runs on Linux and NT because it requires gross hacks to redirect e.g. I/O space access. Really, a full emulator is more interesting than a virtual machine. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 9: 7:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ftp.dns.ne.jp (ftp.dns.ne.jp [210.155.3.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7881A14BEE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanimura@sakuramail.com) Received: from silver.carrots (yksk0103.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [210.131.91.67]) by ftp.dns.ne.jp (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22906; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:07:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by silver.carrots (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id BAA12119; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:07:06 +0900 (JST) To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Cc: tanimura@naklab.dnj.ynu.ac.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports From: Seigo TANIMURA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700" <73643.926406478@zippy.cdrom.com> References: <73643.926406478@zippy.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990518010706Y.tanimura@sakuramail.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:07:06 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:58 -0700 Message-ID: <73643.926406478@zippy.cdrom.com> jkh> > After a week of struggle, I am pleased very much to announce jkh> > that Luigi's sound driver now has a midi interface and a sequencer! jkh> jkh> Excellent! I'm very happy to hear this. Any idea when you guys will jkh> be able to support the on-board MIDI interfaces featured on many sound jkh> cards? Once that day comes, I'd say this code should go straight into jkh> -current! I now have the driver for OPL3 ready to go! Seigo TANIMURA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 9:34:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52F114FAC for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:5SY2iMp/a2MbZjpbAdLQIusFzG7D8cSm@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id BAA15688; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:34:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id BAA01434; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:37:53 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905171637.BAA01434@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "14 May 1999 16:05:02 +0200." References: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:37:53 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry for not participating in your earlier discussion, I have been kept busy by my work ;-< The current VGA driver code won't do much in the graphics mode. It simply switches to a graphics mode when requested, but it has no code to actually write anything to the video buffer in the graphics mode. (Well, there is a exception, really. Syscons can use the VESA 800x600 mode as the raster text mode... But, the video driver is still drawing nothing in this case as well; it is syscons which knows this mode and is writing.) In that sense, the support for 320x240 mode-X is minimal too. The driver can set up this mode, but has no knowledge or code to write to it. It is entirely up to the userland program to update the video buffer. (And it is true that there is very little use to this mode at the moment as we haven't seen anybody using it...) I think the basic video driver should just provide the interface to change the video mode and the access to the video buffer; it shouldn't have feature-rich, do-everything API to draw fancy graphics (it may provide such simple functions as "clear screen", though). Such useful but complicated drawing functions should be left to GGI, libvgl or similar libraries. As for frame buffer access, I am currently working on video driver and syscons udpate and try to provide the linear frame buffer access mode. The current snapshot just uses the VESA 2.0 function to set up the linear frame buffer. If the video card supports VESA 1.2 or earlier or doesn't support VESA at all, the linear frame buffer won't be available. The current implementation doesn't simulate the linear frame buffer for these cards; your program needs to "switch" banks to access the entire range of the frame buffer. The frame buffer, linear or windowed, can be `mmap()'ed by the user program so long as it has sufficient privilege to access a vty. Please have a look at http://www.freebsd.org/~yokota/syscons-update.17May.tar.gz It's not finished yet, but may give you some ideas. Kazu >Kelly Yancey writes: >> What I don't get is how the memory is presented to apps using the >> driver. The best I could think of would be to present it a 256k linear >> frame buffer with the pixels in order (ie writes to consecutive pixels >> would result in the driver switching planes), and while that would present >> a consistent interface, it would be *really* slow (if it is even >> possible). > >Yes, it's possible, but it requires a page fault on *every* write to >video memory. YA case of 'possible, but not practical'. > >(this technique has been used to simulate a linear frame buffer when >using paged modes, but I haven't yet succeeded in convincing Kazu to >implement it in the VESA driver and I don't have the time or know-how >to do it myself) > >> The next best thing would be to present it a 256k linear frame >> buffer but with each plane 64k after the previous. Applications would >> have to be aware of the layout (ie. know that modex modes aren't linear) >> because writes to consecutive memory addresses would result in changing >> every 4th pixel. This is the method I would assume must already be in >> place for the existing 320x240 mode, but I can't find it. Which means that >> at the moment 320x240 is useless? > >Yes, if it's there at all you have to switch banks "manually". > >> Really, I was thinking that this would be a "neat" thing to add. I could >> have some higher resolution video modes without needing VESA (and VM86). > >The VESA code is very small, and you want VM86 anyway (amongst other >things, for reliable memory detection) > >> But you make a good point in that anyone who wants graphics uses X. I >> guess I was thinking that maybe the additional modes would be of use >> should FreeBSD ever really get an equivalent to libsvga. > >We already have that (libvgl), though it's in deperate need of >maintenance. > >> Anyway, as you point out, then the modes are really only of use to >> splash screens (which is a minor feature in and of itself). So the >> question becomes, is there any interest in adding 6 mode "tweaked" modes >> (in addition to the existing 320x240) or should we reduce complexity and >> remove the 320x240 mode because surely nothing can be using it (you can >> only write to every 4th pixel right now). > >I vote for the latter. > >> > OBTW, Mode Q has square pixels and linear addressing. I won't mind >> > adding support for Mode Q :) >> Mode Q? I'm not familiar with that one. Presumably a less-than-320x200 >> resolution? > >No, actually it has 1536 more pixels :) Mode Q is so named because the >frame buffer is a cube of sorts (i.e. 256x256 pixels in 256 colors) > >If you have time and talent to spare and want to work on the console >code, I have two suggestions for useful additions: > > - modify syscons so userland software can mmap the frame buffer, and > whatever other modifications are necessary to make it possible for > userland software to use graphics without needing write access to > /dev/kmem (currently, the only way to mmap the frame buffer is to > map in the correct address range from /dev/kmem) > > - port GGI to FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 9:50:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52A614E96 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA84255; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs Cc: Alex Le Heux , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fsck and large file system In-Reply-To: <199905162317.QAA75741@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 16 May 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Alex Le Heux writes: > > Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but didn't I read somewhere that with > > softupdates it would theoretically be possible to boot the system before > > the fsck and fsck while it's running? > > Yes.. if you make the assumptions that: > > 1. There are no bugs in the soft updates code > 2. Your disk always writes its blocks atomically > > Then it follows that the only disk inconsistencies that are possible > during any boot-up are minor ones (eg, bitmap entry showing an allocated > block that's not pointed to by anything) that can be fixed by a background > daemon running at its leisure. As a consequence of doing this, your may > have free, but temporarily unavailable, disk blocks for a while until > the daemon finishes. > > Julian et.al. can correct me if I've left something out.. that's the theory... It's possibel to reboot, not fsck and just live with the 'unfree' resources till you have time to reboot and do an fdsck at a later time.. (the run-time fsck is extermely tricky as evidenced by the fact that Kirk has not yet been able to quite work out how to do it). > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 10:59:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B57D414F84 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA26533 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:48:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:48:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cylinder group and special device Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anyone answer the following two questions for me: (1) Does a cylinder group in FFS have to begin at a cylinder boundary? (2) If we read a block via a special device name (/dev/xxx), will the block be buffered as normal file data and used when we need the block again? Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 11:25:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2B015109 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06580; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Seigo TANIMURA Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updated: Call for Review: VoxWare/LGSND(Yes!) midi driver for serial ports In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 01:07:06 +0900." <19990518010706Y.tanimura@sakuramail.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: <6577.926965568@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I now have the driver for OPL3 ready to go! Great news! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 11:36:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F419F151BF for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA27148; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905171836.LAA27148@apollo.backplane.com> To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cylinder group and special device References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Can anyone answer the following two questions for me: : :(1) Does a cylinder group in FFS have to begin at a cylinder boundary? No. The only thing that happens if it isn't is that the '# (Cyl. .... )' comment in the disklabel has asterixes in it. Modern hard drives use variable length tracks so most people do not bother trying to align the placement of filesystemes on the disk. The filesystem doesn't care, you shouldn't care, so don't worry about it. :(2) If we read a block via a special device name (/dev/xxx), will the :block be buffered as normal file data and used when we need the block :again? If you use, for example, /dev/da0a, it will be buffered. If you use /dev/rda0a, it will not be buffered. 'r' means raw-unbuffered. Accessing block devices directly is somewhat dangerous. The system will not allow you to open the buffered device if a mounted filesystem is using the partition, but it will allow you to open the raw device even if a filesystem is using the partition. This can be extremely dangerous so care must be taken when accessing block devices. -Matt Matthew Dillon :Thanks for any help. : :-------------------------------------------------- :Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org :-------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 11:57: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8B6150BB for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA58801; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:55:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) References: <199905171637.BAA01434@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 May 1999 20:55:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kazutaka YOKOTA's message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 01:37:53 +0900" Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > In that sense, the support for 320x240 mode-X is minimal too. The > driver can set up this mode, but has no knowledge or code to write to > it. It is entirely up to the userland program to update the video > buffer. (And it is true that there is very little use to this mode at > the moment as we haven't seen anybody using it...) I believe the video_info_t etc. structures aren't able to accurately describe how to address mode X. The graphics code in the graphical screen savers and the splash screen decoders is written in such a way that it does not care if the current mode is linear or windowed (a linear frame buffer is a windowed frame buffer with a window size large enough to hold the entire screen). Extending this code to work with mode X is not trivial; you either have to write a separate drawing function for mode X, or put so much magic in your drawing function that it will bog down to something like 3 fps. And you can't just look at your video_info_t and see that mode X is interlaced; you have to *know* that you're running in mode X and that mode X is interlaced. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 12:51:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4841521C for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:4TsaIQb3K8QSTjeP/0+8pjcfT4ex44yP@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id EAA15748; Tue, 18 May 1999 04:13:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id EAA04418; Tue, 18 May 1999 04:17:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905171917.EAA04418@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kelly Yancey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1999 20:55:40 +0200." References: <199905171637.BAA01434@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 04:17:47 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> In that sense, the support for 320x240 mode-X is minimal too. The >> driver can set up this mode, but has no knowledge or code to write to >> it. It is entirely up to the userland program to update the video >> buffer. (And it is true that there is very little use to this mode at >> the moment as we haven't seen anybody using it...) > >I believe the video_info_t etc. structures aren't able to accurately >describe how to address mode X. That's correct for the current code. But, we can always extend it if at all necessary. >The graphics code in the graphical >screen savers and the splash screen decoders is written in such a way >that it does not care if the current mode is linear or windowed (a >linear frame buffer is a windowed frame buffer with a window size >large enough to hold the entire screen). Extending this code to work >with mode X is not trivial; you either have to write a separate >drawing function for mode X, or put so much magic in your drawing >function that it will bog down to something like 3 fps. And I am not asking you to do so :-) Splash screen decoders, screen savers, or any other graphics programs may choose whichever video mode they like to support. If they don't want the complexity of the mode X, they don't need to support it. >And you can't >just look at your video_info_t and see that mode X is interlaced; you >have to *know* that you're running in mode X and that mode X is >interlaced. Well, how about this. If we are to add a way to describe the frame buffer organization, then graphics programs can identify interlaced video mode X among available video modes. As it is the program which will request the video mode change, the programs that don't like interlaced modes can decide to ignore those modes and use other, simpler video modes. Noboby is forcing you to use the interlaced modes... Anyway, I am not adovocating all those wacky mode X. I am perfectly happy if everybody can agree in dropping these modes. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 12:52: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CC11521C for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id PAA25297; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:58:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > > In that sense, the support for 320x240 mode-X is minimal too. The > > driver can set up this mode, but has no knowledge or code to write to > > it. It is entirely up to the userland program to update the video > > buffer. (And it is true that there is very little use to this mode at > > the moment as we haven't seen anybody using it...) > > I believe the video_info_t etc. structures aren't able to accurately > describe how to address mode X. The graphics code in the graphical > screen savers and the splash screen decoders is written in such a way > that it does not care if the current mode is linear or windowed (a > linear frame buffer is a windowed frame buffer with a window size > large enough to hold the entire screen). Extending this code to work > with mode X is not trivial; you either have to write a separate > drawing function for mode X, or put so much magic in your drawing > function that it will bog down to something like 3 fps. And you can't > just look at your video_info_t and see that mode X is interlaced; you > have to *know* that you're running in mode X and that mode X is > interlaced. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > I think you just nailed the problem here. It requires a prohibitive amount of effort to support modex video modes given the return. What I am thinking about is removing the 320x240 mode (since it is impossibly difficult to deal with)...no one is using it now so no one would be affected. I would also like to add a comment into one of the source files indicating why we have chosen not to support unchained VGA modes (ie. "modex" modes) so that we can prevent this question from arising again in the future. On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the modes. I listed the character cell sizes I picked for the graphics modes...which brings me to an interesting question: how come we pick a single character cell size for video modes? For video modes 640x480 or more it would be nice to select what size the character cells are (for example, selecting an 8x8 cell size rather than 8x16 to double the number of characters which could be written). I'm not really sure what practical use there is for using graphics modes to render text (and hence why character cell sizes for graphics modes would even be used). But currently syscons can do it from VESA 800x600 (syscons renders the text). Presumably, though, if it is useful, there isn't anything preventing the implementation from being extended to all graphics modes (except for modex that is...but I'm now of the impression that should be axed). Finally, with syscons having the ability to render text fonts in graphics modes, shouldn't we be able to redefine the notion of character cell size for graphics modes to be the default character cell size and allow any available text font be used to render text in graphics modes? Just a thought, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13: 3:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A4714BCC for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA25955; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:03:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199905172003.WAA25955@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: from Kelly Yancey at "May 17, 1999 3:58:38 pm" To: kbyanc@alcnet.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:03:07 +0200 (CEST) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Kelly Yancey wrote: > I think you just nailed the problem here. It requires a prohibitive > amount of effort to support modex video modes given the return. What I am > thinking about is removing the 320x240 mode (since it is impossibly > difficult to deal with)...no one is using it now so no one would be > affected. I would also like to add a comment into one of the source files > indicating why we have chosen not to support unchained VGA modes (ie. > "modex" modes) so that we can prevent this question from arising again in > the future. > On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing > patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: > graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) > graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) > graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) > text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 > > The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the > modes. Excuse me, but those modes are even more wierd than modex, either we stick to the std modes, or we'll bloat the driver beyond repair, what I'm stricktly against. All those wacky modes should be set from a module or some such, they have NOTHING to do in the kernel pr default. This isn't Linux guys... (sorry couldn't help that one)... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:20:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B45FF14BCC for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id QAA25842; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:29:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Soren Schmidt Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: <199905172003.WAA25955@freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Soren Schmidt wrote: > It seems Kelly Yancey wrote: > > I think you just nailed the problem here. It requires a prohibitive > > amount of effort to support modex video modes given the return. What I am > > thinking about is removing the 320x240 mode (since it is impossibly > > difficult to deal with)...no one is using it now so no one would be > > affected. I would also like to add a comment into one of the source files > > indicating why we have chosen not to support unchained VGA modes (ie. > > "modex" modes) so that we can prevent this question from arising again in > > the future. > > On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing > > patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: > > graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) > > graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) > > graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) > > text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 > > > > The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the > > modes. > > Excuse me, but those modes are even more wierd than modex, either we stick > to the std modes, or we'll bloat the driver beyond repair, what I'm > stricktly against. All those wacky modes should be set from a module > or some such, they have NOTHING to do in the kernel pr default. > > This isn't Linux guys... (sorry couldn't help that one)... I admit that they are less common than say 320x240 mode x...but they are linear and don't require any hacking to support from applications which would use graphics modes (unlike the unchained "modex" modes). I absolutely agree that we should keep the kernel as lean as possible. And I would *love* to put the modes into a module (that was my original plan)...but to do that, I need get_mode_param to be extern'ed from vga_isa.c so that the module can access the BIOS mode table (or else re-implement the code in vga_isa.c to access the mode table). All I am looking for is the OK to make that routine extern in my patches and I'll make a module. My biggest concern is that get_mode_param is obviously considered an internal API and thus subject to change...change which would then break my KLD. :( With a module, I would suggest moving the implemention of the 320x240 modex mode there also (or else remove it altogether...but with a module, removing it would be unnessicary). And with a module, there would be no harm in implementing the other 6 modex modes (320x400, 320x480, 360x200, 360x240, 360x400, 360x480). If I can get past the get_mode_param hangup, then there would be no reason no to implement 2 KLD's: one for the tweaked video modes and one for the 90-column text modes. Thanks! Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:36:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF4615202 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from muir-10 (roger@muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.148.10]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01638 Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:43 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <37407DDA.1CFB@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:42 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: University of Strathclyde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a fresh installation of FreeBSD 3.2 on my laptop. I tried to install netscape 4.08 from both ports and then as a package. Both times, I get the following error Couldn't load /usr/libexec/ld.so. It has been suggested I need to compile XFree86 locally. My poor laptop will take ages to do this. Not sure I have enough space either. Bye Roger -- Roger Hardiman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:44:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA2F15337 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01001; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905172042.NAA01001@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Roger Hardiman Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:42 BST." <37407DDA.1CFB@cs.strath.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:42:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a fresh installation of FreeBSD 3.2 on my > laptop. > > I tried to install netscape 4.08 from both > ports and then as a package. > > Both times, I get the following error > > Couldn't load /usr/libexec/ld.so. > > > It has been suggested I need to compile XFree86 locally. > My poor laptop will take ages to do this. > Not sure I have enough space either. You will probably need the compat22 distribution for Netscape to work correctly. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:48:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982B1153CE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from muir-10 (roger@muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.148.10]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01761 Mon, 17 May 1999 21:48:01 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <37408080.3F54@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:48:00 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: University of Strathclyde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. References: <199905172042.NAA01001@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike > > You will probably need the compat22 distribution for Netscape to work > correctly. I installed it both during installation and then again via /stand/sysinstall just to make sure. Still no luck. Bye Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:53: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EDF1569C for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07469; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Roger Hardiman Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:42 BST." <37407DDA.1CFB@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:53:40 -0700 Message-ID: <7465.926974420@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a fresh installation of FreeBSD 3.2 on my > laptop. What happens if you select the 2.2 compat dist during installation? - Jordan > > I tried to install netscape 4.08 from both > ports and then as a package. > > Both times, I get the following error > > Couldn't load /usr/libexec/ld.so. > > > It has been suggested I need to compile XFree86 locally. > My poor laptop will take ages to do this. > Not sure I have enough space either. > > Bye > Roger > -- > Roger Hardiman > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:54:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABB0153CE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07493; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Roger Hardiman Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 21:48:00 BST." <37408080.3F54@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: <7490.926974493@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I installed it both during installation and then > again via /stand/sysinstall just to make sure. > > Still no luck. Hmmm. So much for that idea. :) Oddness.. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 13:56:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0566A15355 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from muir-10 (roger@muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.148.10]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01839 Mon, 17 May 1999 21:56:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <37408273.ABD@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:56:19 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: University of Strathclyde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. References: <7490.926974493@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I installed it both during installation and then > > again via /stand/sysinstall just to make sure. > > > > Still no luck. > > Hmmm. So much for that idea. :) Oddness.. I copyied /usr/libexec/ld.so from my 2.2.7 machine to my 3.2 machine and it all worked. bye roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14: 7:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B09315500 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01148; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Roger Hardiman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 13:53:40 PDT." <7465.926974420@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:05:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have a fresh installation of FreeBSD 3.2 on my > > laptop. > > What happens if you select the 2.2 compat dist during installation? It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is hosed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B65156B0 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.cc) Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FD81F6D; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:11:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: mlist/freebsd/hackers X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine To: Jason Thorpe Cc: John & Jennifer Reynolds , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199905171519.IAA08691@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> References: <199905171519.IAA08691@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:11:38 -0500 Message-Id: <19990517211139.51FD81F6D@spawn.nectar.cc> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17 May 1999 at 8:19, Jason Thorpe wrote: > I think the Connectix Virtual PC is cooler; VMware only runs on Linux > and NT because it requires gross hacks to redirect e.g. I/O space access. I haven't seen it... do you have a reference? Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:19:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0161566F for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14200; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:19:02 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199905172119.SAA14200@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <199905152126.OAA10724@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "May 15, 1999 2:26: 1 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:19:02 -0300 (EST) Cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Matthew Dillon) // This reduces the effect an idprio seti background task has on the rest of // the system. Yeah... I was going to ask just this. My users complained about server response after starting setiathome. // sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000 Humm, my systems are configured with a value with 10: krakatoa::root [650] sysctl kern | grep quantum kern.quantum: 10 This both in 3.1-stable (Early May) and 2.2.8-stable (latest). Are you talking about a 4.0-current setup ? // The default is 100,000 ( 100ms ) which, for a modern cpu, is // much more chunky then it needs to be. Reducing it to 20ms // makes a big difference. At 100000 I can feel the slow response // with seti running in the background. At 20000 it is much less // pronounced. What are the drawbacks of this ? More CPU time spent in context switches ? Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Enginner jcml@ieee.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:22:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from houston.matchlogic.com (houston.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F8114C27 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crandall@matchlogic.com) Received: by HOUSTON with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:22:35 -0600 Message-ID: <64003B21ECCAD11185C500805F31EC0302875956@HOUSTON> From: Charles Randall To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: VMware--anyone playing with it? Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:22:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.connectix.com/html/connectix_virtualpc.html -----Original Message----- From: Jacques Vidrine [mailto:n@nectar.cc] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 3:12 PM To: Jason Thorpe Cc: John & Jennifer Reynolds; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? On 17 May 1999 at 8:19, Jason Thorpe wrote: > I think the Connectix Virtual PC is cooler; VMware only runs on Linux > and NT because it requires gross hacks to redirect e.g. I/O space access. I haven't seen it... do you have a reference? Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:32:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D758153AE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:32:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id JAA20757; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:32:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA66795; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:31:59 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:31:59 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Charles Randall Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Message-ID: <19990518093159.A66720@clear.co.nz> References: <64003B21ECCAD11185C500805F31EC0302875956@HOUSTON> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <64003B21ECCAD11185C500805F31EC0302875956@HOUSTON>; from Charles Randall on Mon, May 17, 1999 at 03:22:31PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 17, 1999 at 03:22:31PM -0600, Charles Randall wrote: > http://www.connectix.com/html/connectix_virtualpc.html But this only runs on the Mac, right? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacques Vidrine [mailto:n@nectar.cc] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 3:12 PM > To: Jason Thorpe > Cc: John & Jennifer Reynolds; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? > > > On 17 May 1999 at 8:19, Jason Thorpe wrote: > > I think the Connectix Virtual PC is cooler; VMware only runs on Linux > > and NT because it requires gross hacks to redirect e.g. I/O space access. > > I haven't seen it... do you have a reference? > > Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:35:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 28DB4157A6 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:34:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 78318 invoked by uid 1000); 17 May 1999 21:40:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:40:03 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jason Thorpe Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Message-ID: <19990517234002.B64900@paert.tse-online.de> References: <199905171519.IAA08691@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905171519.IAA08691@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>; from Jason Thorpe on Mon, May 17, 1999 at 08:19:25AM -0700 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Jason, On Mon, May 17, 1999 at 08:19:25AM -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 1999 01:11:40 -0500 > > It doesn't run on FreeBSD, only on Linux and Windows NT. Pity, because > > it is very neat. > I think the Connectix Virtual PC is cooler; VMware only runs on Linux > and NT because it requires gross hacks to redirect e.g. I/O space access. ... and the Connectix Virtual PC is available for FreeBSD? > Really, a full emulator is more interesting than a virtual machine. that's for sure, ... from a theoretically point of view at least. But I suppose, that the virtual machine approach would lead to more performant designs? -Andreas -- : TSE TeleService GmbH : Gsf: Arne Reuter : : : Hovestrasse 14 : Andreas Braukmann : We do it with : : D-48351 Everswinkel : HRB: 1430, AG WAF : FreeBSD/SMP : :--------------------------------------------------------------------: : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 14:37:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from houston.matchlogic.com (houston.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5741556D for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crandall@matchlogic.com) Received: by HOUSTON with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:37:27 -0600 Message-ID: <64003B21ECCAD11185C500805F31EC0302875959@HOUSTON> From: Charles Randall To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: VMware--anyone playing with it? Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:37:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley@clear.co.nz] >> http://www.connectix.com/html/connectix_virtualpc.html > > But this only runs on the Mac, right? Seems like it. I think that Jason was only commenting on the "coolness" factor when compared to VMWare. Although I haven't tried it, VMWare seems damn cool while still maintaining somewhat reasonable performance because it ISN'T an emulator. -Charles - Thinking of installing Linux just to try the VMWare beta. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 15:51:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A509B14BE0 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07898; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Mike Smith Cc: Roger Hardiman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 14:05:28 PDT." <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: <7894.926981406@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in > /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is > hosed. Hmmm. Good thing I took that out of the default list of installation targets then. :) I tend to think that the compat22 distro simply aged and died but nobody noticed until now. :( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 16:20:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BADE151CE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA99656; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3740A3F1.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:19:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Cc: Matthew Dillon , dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <199905172119.SAA14200@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > > #define quoting(Matthew Dillon) > // This reduces the effect an idprio seti background task has on the rest of > // the system. > > Yeah... I was going to ask just this. My users complained about > server response after starting setiathome. > > // sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000 > > Humm, my systems are configured with a value with 10: WARNING: on 3.1 or 2.2.8 it has the inverse action to that required.. (braino on my part) so I think it needs to be set to the inverse of20mSec which is 50Hz (i.e. set it to 50 to achieve the same result.. this is confusing but ....) julian > > krakatoa::root [650] sysctl kern | grep quantum > kern.quantum: 10 > > This both in 3.1-stable (Early May) and 2.2.8-stable (latest). > > Are you talking about a 4.0-current setup ? > > // The default is 100,000 ( 100ms ) which, for a modern cpu, is > // much more chunky then it needs to be. Reducing it to 20ms > // makes a big difference. At 100000 I can feel the slow response > // with seti running in the background. At 20000 it is much less > // pronounced. > > What are the drawbacks of this ? More CPU time spent in context > switches ? yeah a TINY amount more. > > Jonny > > -- > João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br > Networking Enginner jcml@ieee.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 16:49:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2317A156DB for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:orGbXig5eqKVqOXlxsOhqYliNsydLvDb@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id IAA16212; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:49:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id IAA08926; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:53:11 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905172353.IAA08926@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Kelly Yancey Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 15:58:38 -0400." References: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:53:10 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think you just nailed the problem here. It requires a prohibitive >amount of effort to support modex video modes given the return. What I am >thinking about is removing the 320x240 mode (since it is impossibly >difficult to deal with)...no one is using it now so no one would be >affected. I would also like to add a comment into one of the source files >indicating why we have chosen not to support unchained VGA modes (ie. >"modex" modes) so that we can prevent this question from arising again in >the future. > On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing >patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: > graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) > graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) > graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) > text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 > > The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the >modes. Please have a look at my latest syscons update patch: http://www.freebsd.org/~yokota/syscons-update.17May.tar.gz It includes 90-column text mode patch you previously submitted (PR: i386/7510)! > I listed the character cell sizes I picked for the graphics >modes...which brings me to an interesting question: how come we pick a >single character cell size for video modes? For video modes 640x480 or >more it would be nice to select what size the character cells are (for >example, selecting an 8x8 cell size rather than 8x16 to double the number >of characters which could be written). Um, I have not advertised this before, but... Syscons in 3.X and 4.0-CURRENT already can do this not only for the VESA 800x600 mode but also for certain other video modes. > I'm not really sure what practical use there is for using graphics modes >to render text (and hence why character cell sizes for graphics modes >would even be used). But currently syscons can do it from VESA 800x600 >(syscons renders the text). Presumably, though, if it is useful, there >isn't anything preventing the implementation from being extended to all >graphics modes (except for modex that is...but I'm now of the impression >that should be axed). Finally, with syscons having the ability to render >text fonts in graphics modes, shouldn't we be able to redefine the notion >of character cell size for graphics modes to be the default character cell >size and allow any available text font be used to render text in graphics >modes? Yes, it can be extended to support all graphics modes (except mode X :-). But, how useful will it be? The VESA 800x600 raster text mode was a kludge for some laptop systems, so it was justifiable. But, how about others? 1024x768 mode can contain only 128 columns if we are to use 8-dot wide font. This is not as good as 132 column text modes provided by VESA. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 16:55:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FC51540E for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01972; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905172352.QAA01972@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: Kelly Yancey , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 08:53:10 +0900." <199905172353.IAA08926@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:52:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, it can be extended to support all graphics modes (except mode X > :-). But, how useful will it be? The VESA 800x600 raster text mode > was a kludge for some laptop systems, so it was justifiable. But, how > about others? 1024x768 mode can contain only 128 columns if we are to > use 8-dot wide font. This is not as good as 132 column text modes > provided by VESA. It's better than the 80 column text mode that is the best supported by many new VESA biossen. It'd also be good for the TGA console. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 17: 5:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF07C14FC3 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:yBWxXnU5xcTlBi17EkWuCtKzo7igQxhr@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id JAA16161; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:03:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id JAA09244; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:07:04 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905180007.JAA09244@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Soren Schmidt Cc: kbyanc@alcnet.com (Kelly Yancey), des@flood.ping.uio.no, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 22:03:07 +0200." <199905172003.WAA25955@freebsd.dk> References: <199905172003.WAA25955@freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:07:03 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing >> patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: >> graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) >> graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) >> graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) >> text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 >> >> The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the >> modes. > >Excuse me, but those modes are even more wierd than modex, either we stick >to the std modes, or we'll bloat the driver beyond repair, what I'm >stricktly against. All those wacky modes should be set from a module >or some such, they have NOTHING to do in the kernel pr default. I found 90-column text modes are generally OK, when I looked at his submitted patch. It adds just few lines to the video driver. It is too small to make a KLD, so I included it to my recent patch as a kernel compile time option. I haven't seen the patch for "tweaked" graphics modes above. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 17:24:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450FC14BFF for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA30292; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:54:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA27966; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:55:13 +0930 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:55:12 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Graham Wheeler Cc: John & Jennifer Reynolds , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? In-Reply-To: <373FE077.70243CE1@cdsec.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Graham Wheeler wrote: > When the beta was first announced, there was a small but concerted > effort amongst readers of this list to send mail to VMWare requesting > that they consider supporting FreeBSD as a host O/S, not just a > guest O/S. So, add your voice and send them some mail... The latest update which has arrived in my inbox states the following in the changelog: o Support for FreeBSD 3.0 and 3.1 guest operating systems o Support for OpenBSD and BSD/OS 4.0 guest operating systems (experimental) Which is still not as good as host support, but it indicates they at least are willing to support us. Perhaps down the track we'll see FreeBSD host support. Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 19:14:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCFE15395 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20664 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:13:27 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18130 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:14:12 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA18351; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:14:12 +0800 Message-Id: <199905180214.KAA18351@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mosix now available under GPL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:14:12 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.mosix.cs.huji.ac.il/txt_distribution.html Now, who's going to port it to FreeBSD? STephen PS - my Seismic software code would love this.... -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 22:21:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles530.castles.com [208.214.165.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42FD114CE0 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00781; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905180520.WAA00781@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mosix now available under GPL In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 10:14:12 +0800." <199905180214.KAA18351@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:20:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > http://www.mosix.cs.huji.ac.il/txt_distribution.html > > Now, who's going to port it to FreeBSD? It would help a lot if they released the original BSDI-based code as well. The porting process would be pretty heavy given the code they provide (replacements for all touched files, not even diffs. Ugh). -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 22:32:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2403914E46 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:32:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA72781; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905180532.BAA72781@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:32:31 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First, I would like to take this opportunity the thank Matt Dillon for his excellent work with NFS/TCP. Wow, way to go :) Now on to the real problem :) One of our users way able to reliably crash an NFS server 3 times today. I have since copied his program and have reliably crashed a seperate and unloaded machine with the exact same panic, "lockmgr: locking against myself". I check the recent DG patches that went in after -RELEASE and they do not appear to affect this part of the code. I have a full debugging kernel compiled, yet when I issue a 'gdb -k kernel.0 vmcore.0' (where kernel.0 is either the debugging or strip-debug kernel), I receive an unresolved symbol error for "gd_curpcb", so I cannot provide additional information at this time. In the morning I will try to distill the code down to a more potent test-case. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 22:33: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alive.znep.com (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-222.oz.net [216.39.144.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BD214E46 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA21979 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:37:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:37:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: libkvm sucks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The premise: libkvm is fatally flawed by design, and fixing it is not an easy proposition. The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has obvious race conditions. This is why any identd that uses libkvm sucks and gets into loops all the time, etc. This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down by doing hostname lookups. In fact, on BSDI systems I have even seen identd hang the entire machine hard by reading from the wrong address that the IO APIC is mapped at (BSDI maps it starting at 0xffff0000, which much worse than a random address for accidental reads). In general, I'm no fan of the Linux style proc (by "Linux style" I mean going crazy with the types of info there and the huge amount of formatting done in the kernel), but in this case it can work a whole lot better, even if it is somewhat less efficient. I'm sure this isn't a new problem, but I don't recall hearing of any suggested solutions and I'm not aware of any alternative interface to get the same info on FreeBSD. Anyone? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 22:34:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26B714F5B for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:34:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07538 Tue, 18 May 1999 06:34:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3740FBF0.226D3550@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:34:40 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. References: <7894.926981406@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in > > /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is > > hosed. > Hmmm. Good thing I took that out of the default list of installation targets then. :) > I tend to think that the compat22 distro simply aged and died but nobody noticed > until now. :( Can we put anything on the 2 boot floppies. How about putting ld.so on one of the floopy disks and hacking the install program to always copy the ld.so file from floppy to /usr/libexec Then everyone gets a working system. However, installing the linux netscape 4.08 is a workaround I suppose the problems will be in Netscape and my XiGs Accel X 4.1. Anything other native FreeBSD aout binaries? Bye Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 22:34:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809F514E59; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07558 Tue, 18 May 1999 06:34:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3740FBFE.B949C208@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:34:54 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: do you have any bt848 hacks (eg channel sets) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Do you have any bt848 driver hacks to the brooktree848.c source code you need to get the card working for you. eg audio mux changes Tuner frequency channel sets This DOES NOT include any kernel config options or any 'sysctl' options I'm looking for actual source code changes. I'm trying to make sure the bt848 driver is up to date. I've just spent time helping someone work out the Australian channel sets for the driver, only to be emailed by someone else who already worked them out. I'm trying to avoid this repetition. send emails to me at roger@cs.strath.ac.uk Bye Roger -- Roger Hardiman Strathclyde Uni Telepresence Research Group, Glasgow, Scotland. http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk 0141 548 2897 roger@cs.strath.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 23: 8:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D87D151CE for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA18297; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:33:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:33:01 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: so use sysctl (was: Re: libkvm sucks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Marc Slemko wrote: > The premise: libkvm is fatally flawed by design, and fixing it is not an > easy proposition. > > The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has > obvious race conditions. > > This is why any identd that uses libkvm sucks and gets into loops all the > time, etc. > > This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a > busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down > by doing hostname lookups. > > In fact, on BSDI systems I have even seen identd hang the entire machine > hard by reading from the wrong address that the IO APIC is mapped at (BSDI > maps it starting at 0xffff0000, which much worse than a random address > for accidental reads). > > In general, I'm no fan of the Linux style proc (by "Linux style" I mean > going crazy with the types of info there and the huge amount of formatting > done in the kernel), but in this case it can work a whole lot better, even > if it is somewhat less efficient. > > I'm sure this isn't a new problem, but I don't recall hearing of any > suggested solutions and I'm not aware of any alternative interface to get > the same info on FreeBSD. Anyone? unf! part of a multithreaded ident server that i got bored with... i'm not entirely sure it still works: uid_t get_sok_uid(u_short lport, u_short fport, int *err){ /* mostly stolen from netstat */ char *mibvar = "net.inet.tcp.pcblist"; char *buf; int proto = IPPROTO_TCP; uid_t retval = 0; struct tcpcb *tp; struct inpcb *inp; struct xinpgen *xig, *oxig; struct xsocket *so; size_t len = 0; *err = NO_ERR; if (sysctlbyname(mibvar, 0, &len, 0, 0) < 0) { *err = ERR_SYSCTL; return(0); } if ((buf = (char *) malloc(len)) == 0) { *err = ERR_MALLOC; return(0); } if (sysctlbyname(mibvar, buf, &len, 0, 0) < 0) { *err = ERR_SYSCTL; free(buf); return(0); } oxig = xig = (struct xinpgen *)buf; for (xig = (struct xinpgen *)((char *)xig + xig->xig_len); xig->xig_len > sizeof(struct xinpgen); xig = (struct xinpgen *)((char *)xig + xig->xig_len)) { tp = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_tp; inp = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_inp; so = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_socket; /* Ignore sockets for protocols other than the desired one. */ if (so->xso_protocol != proto) continue; /* Ignore PCBs which were freed during copyout. */ if (inp->inp_gencnt > oxig->xig_gen) continue; /* check port */ if ( htons(inp->inp_fport) == fport && htons(inp->inp_lport) == lport){ printf("pgid = %d\n", so->so_pgid); retval = so->so_uid; free(buf); return( retval ); } } *err = ERR_NOUSER; free(buf); } enjoy, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 23:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9482114E0D for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA17404; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:36:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:36:11 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: forgot some stuff about sysctl: Re: libkvm sucks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Marc Slemko wrote: > The premise: libkvm is fatally flawed by design, and fixing it is not an > easy proposition. > > The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has > obvious race conditions. > > This is why any identd that uses libkvm sucks and gets into loops all the > time, etc. > > This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a > busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down > by doing hostname lookups. > > In fact, on BSDI systems I have even seen identd hang the entire machine > hard by reading from the wrong address that the IO APIC is mapped at (BSDI > maps it starting at 0xffff0000, which much worse than a random address > for accidental reads). > > In general, I'm no fan of the Linux style proc (by "Linux style" I mean > going crazy with the types of info there and the huge amount of formatting > done in the kernel), but in this case it can work a whole lot better, even > if it is somewhat less efficient. > > I'm sure this isn't a new problem, but I don't recall hearing of any > suggested solutions and I'm not aware of any alternative interface to get > the same info on FreeBSD. Anyone? doh: you also need a buncha headers: #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #define TCPSTATES #include #include #include #include #define NO_ERR 0 #define ERR_SYSCTL 1 #define ERR_MALLOC 2 #define ERR_NOUSER 3 #define ERR_READ 4 #define ERR_TIMEOUT_READ 5 #define ERR_WRITE 6 #define ERR_TIMEOUT_WRITE 7 you may be able to trim this list, and here's that function again: uid_t get_sok_uid(u_short lport, u_short fport, int *err){ /* mostly stolen from netstat */ char *mibvar = "net.inet.tcp.pcblist"; char *buf; int proto = IPPROTO_TCP; uid_t retval = 0; struct tcpcb *tp; struct inpcb *inp; struct xinpgen *xig, *oxig; struct xsocket *so; size_t len = 0; *err = NO_ERR; if (sysctlbyname(mibvar, 0, &len, 0, 0) < 0) { *err = ERR_SYSCTL; return(0); } if ((buf = (char *) malloc(len)) == 0) { *err = ERR_MALLOC; return(0); } if (sysctlbyname(mibvar, buf, &len, 0, 0) < 0) { *err = ERR_SYSCTL; free(buf); return(0); } oxig = xig = (struct xinpgen *)buf; for (xig = (struct xinpgen *)((char *)xig + xig->xig_len); xig->xig_len > sizeof(struct xinpgen); xig = (struct xinpgen *)((char *)xig + xig->xig_len)) { tp = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_tp; inp = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_inp; so = &((struct xtcpcb *)xig)->xt_socket; /* Ignore sockets for protocols other than the desired one. */ if (so->xso_protocol != proto) continue; /* Ignore PCBs which were freed during copyout. */ if (inp->inp_gencnt > oxig->xig_gen) continue; /* check port */ if ( htons(inp->inp_fport) == fport && htons(inp->inp_lport) == lport){ printf("pgid = %d\n", so->so_pgid); retval = so->so_uid; free(buf); return( retval ); } } *err = ERR_NOUSER; free(buf); } -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 23:34:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alive.znep.com (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-222.oz.net [216.39.144.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D23914DE9 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22282; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so use sysctl (was: Re: libkvm sucks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: [...] > unf! > > part of a multithreaded ident server that i got bored with... > i'm not entirely sure it still works: Yea, that idea works, thanks. I didn't notice that the way this is done was changed in 3.x to add the sysctl option. I do wonder about the quantity of raw information it exposes to anyone without it being filtered through some "trusted" code that hides any private information, especially if any such info is added at a later time to existing structures. In any case, it makes sense, and is a reasonable alternative. Unfortunately it isn't portable, but that's life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 17 23:51:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6091315150 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA27285; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:51:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199905180651.IAA27285@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: from Kelly Yancey at "May 17, 1999 4:29:40 pm" To: kbyanc@alcnet.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:51:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Kelly Yancey wrote: > > I admit that they are less common than say 320x240 mode x...but they are > linear and don't require any hacking to support from applications which > would use graphics modes (unlike the unchained "modex" modes). > I absolutely agree that we should keep the kernel as lean as > possible. And I would *love* to put the modes into a module (that was my > original plan)...but to do that, I need get_mode_param to be extern'ed > from vga_isa.c so that the module can access the BIOS mode table (or else > re-implement the code in vga_isa.c to access the mode table). All I am > looking for is the OK to make that routine extern in my patches and I'll > make a module. My biggest concern is that get_mode_param is obviously > considered an internal API and thus subject to change...change which would > then break my KLD. :( > With a module, I would suggest moving the implemention of the 320x240 > modex mode there also (or else remove it altogether...but with a module, > removing it would be unnessicary). And with a module, there would be no > harm in implementing the other 6 modex modes (320x400, 320x480, 360x200, > 360x240, 360x400, 360x480). > If I can get past the get_mode_param hangup, then there would be no > reason no to implement 2 KLD's: one for the tweaked video modes and one > for the 90-column text modes. Hmm, I see no problem in publicising get_mode_param, the only thing is that it might change over time, but thats another matter... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0: 1:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AA814F5B for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10jdrt-0001AC-00; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:00:49 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Doug Rabson Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 09:58:10 +0100." Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:00:49 +0200 Message-ID: <4475.927010849@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999 09:58:10 +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > I don't think LINT in current mentions the new debug flag. Are you talking about this: # The `makeoptions' parameter allows variables to be passed to the # generated Makefile in the build area. DEBUG happens to be magic. [...] #makeoptions DEBUG=-g #Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols ? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0: 5:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E60314F5B for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA00260; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:35:01 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA02200; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:56 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:55 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Doug Rabson , Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging Message-ID: <19990518163455.U89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4475.927010849@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4475.927010849@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 09:00:49AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 18 May 1999 at 9:00:49 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 May 1999 09:58:10 +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > >> I don't think LINT in current mentions the new debug flag. > > Are you talking about this: > > # The `makeoptions' parameter allows variables to be passed to the > # generated Makefile in the build area. DEBUG happens to be magic. > [...] > #makeoptions DEBUG=-g #Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols No. Doug's right, it appears. The flags are for the serial ports (sio0, etc). LINT says: # `flags' for serial drivers that support consoles (only for sio now): # 0x10 enable console support for this unit. The other console flags # are ignored unless this is set. Enabling console support does # not make the unit the preferred console - boot with -h or set # the 0x20 flag for that. Currently, at most one unit can have # console support; the first one (in config file order) with # this flag set is preferred. Setting this flag for sio0 gives # the old behaviour. # 0x20 force this unit to be the console (unless there is another # higher priority console). This replaces the COMCONSOLE option. # 0x40 reserve this unit for low level console operations. Do not # access the device in any normal way. In fact, there's also a 0x80, which you need to set (along with 0x10, it appears) to run remote debugging. I'm guessing a bit at this, since I haven't had time to look at the code, but 0x90 works for me. Doug? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0:17:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9024914FC2 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10je7b-0001FP-00; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:17:03 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Greg Lehey Cc: Doug Rabson , Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:55 +0930." <19990518163455.U89091@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:17:03 +0200 Message-ID: <4798.927011823@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:55 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > In fact, there's also a 0x80, which you need to set (along with 0x10, > it appears) to run remote debugging. I'm guessing a bit at this, > since I haven't had time to look at the code, but 0x90 works for me. This is something new since about 4 months ago, then? I used 0x10 on a 4.0-CURRENT machine a while back and managed to do remote debugging successfully (after a little help from you, in fact). :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0:48:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.qse.tohoku.ac.jp (saturn.qse.tohoku.ac.jp [130.34.70.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C4214D9C for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by saturn.qse.tohoku.ac.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11115; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:48:23 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available From: "Ueda, Kazukiyo" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 16:43:30 -0700" <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> References: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990518164823A.kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:48:23 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi hackers, I'm pleased to participate in such cool project. Is anybody kind enough to tell me how to run this program while the FreeBSD box is idle? Thanks in advance, -- Kazukiyo Ueda To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0:51:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65679153ED for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreasd@ifi.uio.no) Received: from dromi.ifi.uio.no (3034@dromi.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.44]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id JAA18736 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:51:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreasd@localhost) by dromi.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:51:23 +0200 (MET DST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS P2B-DS and SMP References: From: Andreas Dobloug Date: 18 May 1999 09:51:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * David E. Cross | I dug through the archives and found peopel with similiar problems to | what I am experiencing, but I didn't find any answers that have worked | for me. Here are the problem I am having: | [..] I've experienced this problem too, and have found a solution: (Should have posted it ages ago). Try flashing your BIOS to v1.006 (or older). Yes, it works! I've tested it on two motherboards, and both work with BIOS versions prior to v1.007. -- Andreas Dobloug : email: andreasd@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 0:54:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C34A14D9C for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreasd@ifi.uio.no) Received: from dromi.ifi.uio.no (3034@dromi.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.44]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id JAA19110 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:54:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreasd@localhost) by dromi.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:54:22 +0200 (MET DST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS P2B-DS and SMP References: From: Andreas Dobloug Date: 18 May 1999 09:54:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * sthaug@nethelp.no | > 1: The built-in SCSI ROM is v2.01, there was mention of BIOS 1008 including | > 2.11. I applied the 1008 flash and I am still v2.01 (I don't know if | > this matters at all) | At least for the P2B-S, you need 1008B, not 1008. The file I got from I haven't tested 1.008(b), but I did test 1.009 two days ago. It still didn't work properly. -- Andreas Dobloug : email: andreasd@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1: 9:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2503E150BD for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA31459; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:09:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:09:34 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Greg Lehey Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <19990518163455.U89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > In fact, there's also a 0x80, which you need to set (along with 0x10, > it appears) to run remote debugging. I'm guessing a bit at this, > since I haven't had time to look at the code, but 0x90 works for me. > Doug? I used to use 0x50 but now 0x80 works fine. I'm not sure why the debug flag changed from 0x40 to 0x80 but the new systems seems to allow both serial console and serial debugging at the same time so I'm not complaining. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1:13: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com (imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com [194.196.205.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD3814E59 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Steve.Gailey@db.com) Received: from bmr2-e1.srv.uk.deuba.com by imr1.srv.uk.deuba.com id JAA04328; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:12:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from pow.srv.uk.deuba.com by bmr2-e1.srv.uk.deuba.com id JAA18810; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:12:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from dmglon010020773 by pow.srv.uk.deuba.com id JAA08915; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:12:57 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199905180812.JAA08915@pow.srv.uk.deuba.com> From: "Steve Gailey" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:09:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address Reply-To: Steve.Gailey@db.com References: <199905141729.LAA11747@mt.sri.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My experience is that most modern (and many older) PC NIC's are able to change their MAC address. The question really is, how should I do this from within FreeBSD. Is there a standard entry into the drivers to do this? If you are wondering why I want to do this, I am looking at hot standby and redundant takeover stuff for high availability systems. Steve > On Fri, 14 May 1999, Nate Williams wrote: > > > I know it's possible to bridge ethernet segments under linux, and the > > > only way that bridging can be implemented is if the MAC address be > > > changed in software on a per-packet basis. > > > > What do you mean 'bridge ethernet segments'? > > A bridge will listen on two specific ethernet ports and decide which MAC > addresses are on which side of the bridge and only forward those packets > which need to cross the bridge. > > In addition, bridges use the IEEE spanning protocol to get rid of possible > loops when there are multiple bridges and switches connected together. An > ethernet switch is in essence a bridge with alot of ports. > > > > > > Very likely there are not kernel facilities to do this, but the > > > existence of bridging code convinces me that it must be possible to > > > alter mac address. > > > > Not that I'm aware of. Too many licensing schemes rely on mac addresses > > to provide the unique 'fingerprint' to have this be something that is > > easily doable. > > > > You're too stubborn here. If a linux box can bridge, then it logically > must be able to change MAC address on a per-packet basis. > > Also when a PC runs a DECNET client, it must also be able to change > ehternet addresses from the base value in the card. > > -- C. Mott > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1:28:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C67814FDD for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:28:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA00493; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:58:03 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA02385; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:58:03 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:58:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sheldon Hearn , Doug Rabson Cc: Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging Message-ID: <19990518175802.V89091@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990518163455.U89091@freebie.lemis.com> <19990518163455.U89091@freebie.lemis.com> <4798.927011823@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4798.927011823@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 09:17:03AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 18 May 1999 at 9:17:03 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:55 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> In fact, there's also a 0x80, which you need to set (along with 0x10, >> it appears) to run remote debugging. I'm guessing a bit at this, >> since I haven't had time to look at the code, but 0x90 works for me. > > This is something new since about 4 months ago, then? I used 0x10 on a > 4.0-CURRENT machine a while back and managed to do remote debugging > successfully (after a little help from you, in fact). :-) On Tuesday, 18 May 1999 at 9:09:34 +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> In fact, there's also a 0x80, which you need to set (along with 0x10, >> it appears) to run remote debugging. I'm guessing a bit at this, >> since I haven't had time to look at the code, but 0x90 works for me. >> Doug? > > I used to use 0x50 but now 0x80 works fine. I'm not sure why the debug > flag changed from 0x40 to 0x80 but the new systems seems to allow both > serial console and serial debugging at the same time so I'm not > complaining. Kirk committed some stuff a week or two ago. And yes, IIRC it was to allow the same serial port to be used for both purposes. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1:39: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51C5414FDD for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:38:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 23096 invoked by uid 1001); 18 May 1999 08:38:54 -0000 To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server References: <199905180532.BAA72781@cs.rpi.edu> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 18 May 1999 11:37:03 +0300 In-Reply-To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu's message of "18 May 1999 08:32:51 +0300" Message-ID: <86g14u6afk.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) writes: > One of our users way able to reliably crash an NFS server 3 times today. > I have since copied his program and have reliably crashed a seperate and > unloaded machine with the exact same panic, "lockmgr: locking against > myself". I check the recent DG patches that went in after -RELEASE and they Are you sure this is NFS related? I can certainly reliably reproduce that and other panics (reported in kern/11629, includes a fix). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1:54:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4FC0155A3 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id SAA01900; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:24:44 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA01303; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:25:30 +0930 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:25:30 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Ueda, Kazukiyo" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <19990518164823A.kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Ueda, Kazukiyo wrote: > I'm pleased to participate in such cool project. Is anybody kind > enough to tell me how to run this program while the FreeBSD box is > idle? Install the astro/setiathome port. One thing I've been meaning to look at though is that it seems to run it at niceness 1, which isn't exactly friendly to the other consumers of CPU. You should be able to tweak it easily, though. Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 1:54:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gidgate.gid.co.uk [193.123.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA64155A4 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA10816; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:53:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990518095341.007accc0@192.168.255.1> X-Sender: rbmail@192.168.255.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:53:41 +0100 To: "Ueda, Kazukiyo" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990518164823A.kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp> References: <199905142343.QAA11646@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 16:48 18/05/99 +0900, Ueda, Kazukiyo wrote: >I'm pleased to participate in such cool project. Is anybody kind >enough to tell me how to run this program while the FreeBSD box is >idle? man nice -- Bob Bishop +44 118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 118 989 4254 (0800-1800 UK) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 2:36: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tch.org (tacostand.tch.org [199.74.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F16114BD2 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:36:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser@tch.org) Received: (from ser@localhost) by tch.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA67633 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ser) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 02:36:05 -0700 From: Steve Rubin To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Message-ID: <19990518023605.A67626@tch.org> References: <199905151958.VAA14199@oranje.my.domain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905151958.VAA14199@oranje.my.domain>; from Marc van Woerkom on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 09:58:47PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG speaking of Ensoniq... Is anyone working on ES1371 drivers? -- Steve Rubin - ser@tch.org - http://www.tch.org/~ser/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 2:55:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.kek.jp (mail.kek.jp [130.87.32.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8AF14CFF for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:55:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yosimoto@mail.kek.jp) Received: from [130.87.82.104] (syg3.kek.jp [130.87.82.104]) by mail.kek.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/KEKconfig97122516) with ESMTP id SAA17715 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:49:25 +0900 (JST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1Jr1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990518023605.A67626@tch.org> References: <199905151958.VAA14199@oranje.my.domain>; from Marc van Woerkom on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 09:58:47PM +0200 <199905151958.VAA14199@oranje.my.domain> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:55:15 +0900 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:36 -0700 05/18/99, Steve Rubin wrote: > Is anyone working on ES1371 drivers? Yes. I'm working on ES1371 drivers with SB PCI128. ---------------------------------------------------------- KEK, High Energy Accelerator Research Organization Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 2:58:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A54DE153E9 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id SAA28982; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:58:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37413591.A88872AD@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:40:33 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Slemko Cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so use sysctl (was: Re: libkvm sucks) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Slemko wrote: > > In any case, it makes sense, and is a reasonable alternative. > Unfortunately it isn't portable, but that's life. And linux /proc is portable? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 3: 1:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC7614CFF for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 03:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05640; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:31:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:31:10 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-May-99 Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO wrote: > > Is anyone working on ES1371 drivers? > Yes. I'm working on ES1371 drivers with SB PCI128. Hmm.. I have access to an SB Ensoniq Audio PCI which has the ES1371 on it. I can test patches etc. The machine is running 3.2-BETA. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 3:14:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [216.140.184.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1791514CFF for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 03:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06416; Tue, 18 May 1999 05:14:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Authentication-Warning: nomad.dataplex.net: rkw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 05:14:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Wackerbarth Reply-To: rkw@dataplex.net To: Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999, Marc Slemko wrote: > The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has > obvious race conditions. [...] > This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a > busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down > by doing hostname lookups. I agree that locking, in one form or another, is required to traverse dynamic chains. However, this applies to the functionality wherever it is implemented. Moving the formatting to the kernel does not change anything. If you are concerned about the time that it takes to do hostname lookups, that time is not any shorter in the kernel. There are two fundamental approaches that work. 1) Lock the structure Make a snapshot copy Unlock the structure Generate the report from the copy Destroy the copy This technique can be used in either userland or kernel implementation. Even without the structure locks, the failure window is considerably smaller for those operations that require a long time to format the report. 2) Use list traversal protocols that prevent the actual deletes from occurring while there is another list reader in that portion of the list. Again, the only requirement in the kernel is the ability set and clear the lock. The remainder of the formatting can occur outside the kernel because the structures being viewed and not destroyed during the traversal. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 4: 6:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.kek.jp (mail.kek.jp [130.87.32.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9531546F for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 04:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yosimoto@mail.kek.jp) Received: from [130.87.82.104] (syg3.kek.jp [130.87.82.104]) by mail.kek.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/KEKconfig97122516) with ESMTP id UAA19527 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:00:59 +0900 (JST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1Jr1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:06:51 +0900 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 19:31 +0930 05/18/99, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Hmm.. I have access to an SB Ensoniq Audio PCI which has the ES1371 on it. I also tried an Ensoniq Audio PCI with the ES1371 at first. But this card did not work. Then I tried a CREATIVE SB PCI128 which has the CREATIVE 5507 on it. It was working fine on ES1370 drivers. My machine is running 3.2-stable and I only add the following line to my kernel configuration file: device pcm0 at isa ? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- KEK, High Energy Accelerator Research Organization Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 5:29:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4FE14DB2 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 05:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20767; Tue, 18 May 1999 05:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905181227.FAA20767@implode.root.com> To: Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 May 1999 22:37:23 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 05:27:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >The premise: libkvm is fatally flawed by design, and fixing it is not an >easy proposition. > >The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has >obvious race conditions. > >This is why any identd that uses libkvm sucks and gets into loops all the >time, etc. > >This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a >busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down >by doing hostname lookups. > >In fact, on BSDI systems I have even seen identd hang the entire machine >hard by reading from the wrong address that the IO APIC is mapped at (BSDI >maps it starting at 0xffff0000, which much worse than a random address >for accidental reads). > >In general, I'm no fan of the Linux style proc (by "Linux style" I mean >going crazy with the types of info there and the huge amount of formatting >done in the kernel), but in this case it can work a whole lot better, even >if it is somewhat less efficient. > >I'm sure this isn't a new problem, but I don't recall hearing of any >suggested solutions and I'm not aware of any alternative interface to get >the same info on FreeBSD. Anyone? Generally we've been moving towards using sysctl for reading kernel data. procfs/kernfs is usually the wrong tool for the job in most cases (my subjective opinion of course). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 6:22:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3577614E39 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:22:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00367 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:22:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:22:52 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905181322.IAA00367@virtual-voodoo.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ed driver probe changes? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last night I switched from 3.1-STABLE to 4.0-CURRENT. Everything went great except for one spot. I have two ethernet cards in this machine. Both use the 'ed' driver. One is PCI the other is ISA. In the 3.1 machine I had a line in the config that said: device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 So the 'isa' card would come up. The PCI card was always detected first and given ed1 (since ed0 was bound to ISA). Under the 4.0 kernel the PCI card is given ed0 and a message is displayed saying ed0 already in use giving next number. The isa card is _NEVER_ probed. I don't even get a message saying it was probed and not found. Is there any probe debugging I can turn on to get more verbose output? Does anyone have a solution for the above? I've tried disabling the pnp controller in the kernel and it has zero effect on anything. The same thing occurs (ie the PCI card gets assigned ed0 and the ISA card is never found). -Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 6:52:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAF314A2D for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id KAA37665; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:01:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: <199905172353.IAA08926@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > I think you just nailed the problem here. It requires a prohibitive > >amount of effort to support modex video modes given the return. What I am > >thinking about is removing the 320x240 mode (since it is impossibly > >difficult to deal with)...no one is using it now so no one would be > >affected. I would also like to add a comment into one of the source files > >indicating why we have chosen not to support unchained VGA modes (ie. > >"modex" modes) so that we can prevent this question from arising again in > >the future. > > On a slightly related note, I am currently in the process of developing > >patches to add more useful "tweaked" modes to the video driver: > > graphics 720x480, 16 colors (90x30 8x16 character cells) > > graphics 256x256, 256 colors (32x32 8x8 character cells) > > graphics 296x220, 256 colors (37x27 8x8 character cells) > > text 90x25, 90x30, 90x43, 90x50, 90x60 > > > > The patches will also update vidcontrol to allow selecting any of the > >modes. > > Please have a look at my latest syscons update patch: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~yokota/syscons-update.17May.tar.gz > > It includes 90-column text mode patch you previously submitted (PR: > i386/7510)! Very cool. Thanks! > > > I listed the character cell sizes I picked for the graphics > >modes...which brings me to an interesting question: how come we pick a > >single character cell size for video modes? For video modes 640x480 or > >more it would be nice to select what size the character cells are (for > >example, selecting an 8x8 cell size rather than 8x16 to double the number > >of characters which could be written). > > Um, I have not advertised this before, but... Syscons in 3.X and > 4.0-CURRENT already can do this not only for the VESA 800x600 mode but > also for certain other video modes. > Holding out on us, huh? :) > > I'm not really sure what practical use there is for using graphics modes > >to render text (and hence why character cell sizes for graphics modes > >would even be used). But currently syscons can do it from VESA 800x600 > >(syscons renders the text). Presumably, though, if it is useful, there > >isn't anything preventing the implementation from being extended to all > >graphics modes (except for modex that is...but I'm now of the impression > >that should be axed). Finally, with syscons having the ability to render > >text fonts in graphics modes, shouldn't we be able to redefine the notion > >of character cell size for graphics modes to be the default character cell > >size and allow any available text font be used to render text in graphics > >modes? > > Yes, it can be extended to support all graphics modes (except mode X > :-). But, how useful will it be? The VESA 800x600 raster text mode > was a kludge for some laptop systems, so it was justifiable. But, how > about others? 1024x768 mode can contain only 128 columns if we are to > use 8-dot wide font. This is not as good as 132 column text modes > provided by VESA. > Yeah, I can see that. I was basically just curious if the plan was originally to support this sort of thing since real character cell size values were included for each graphics mode too...which might imply that there was some intention to implement text rendering in all text modes at some point. On the other hand, maybe it was just for the sake of completeness :)...that's really what I was trying to find out. Now I know it is the latter. Thanks for the great feedback, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 7: 2: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk (puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 337D814EF6 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:00:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Received: from seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:58:48 +0100 Received: from localhost (smaraux@localhost) by seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA13892 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:00:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:00:23 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastien Maraux To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: netbooting a freebsd kernel with 3c905B (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Already posted to freebsd-net) I'm currently doing a FreeBSD installation from network, a bit like jumpstart. So,I need to find a freeware to netboot a freebsd kernel with 3c905B Ken Yap from the etherboot site, told me about a special etherboot that freebsd people had done to make etherboot boot freebsd kernel. A complete RFC 1048 support would be great, because it could allow me to secure the installation by mfs mounting the R/W partitions and NFS export the Read only ones. Every piece of information interest me can someone help me?? Thanks a lot Bye To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 7:12:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.mail.uk.psi.net (relay1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3772414D19 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk) Received: from mail.plasmon.co.uk ([193.115.5.217]) by relay1.mail.uk.psi.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #3) id 10jkWw-0001Ce-00; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:07:38 +0100 Received: by mail.plasmon.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 80256775.004D53E6 ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:04:37 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: PLASNOTES From: amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk To: Sebastien Maraux Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <80256775.004D5380.00@mail.plasmon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:04:35 +0100 Subject: Re: netbooting a freebsd kernel with 3c905B (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I'm currently doing a FreeBSD installation from network, a bit like >jumpstart. >So,I need to find a freeware to netboot a freebsd kernel with 3c905B >Ken Yap from the etherboot site, told me about a special etherboot that >freebsd people had done to make etherboot boot freebsd kernel. >A complete RFC 1048 support would be great, because it could allow me to >secure the installation by mfs mounting the R/W partitions and NFS export >the Read only ones. >Every piece of information interest me >can someone help me?? Doug Ambrisko came up with some patches, you can find an early version attached to PR 9480, there may be more recent versions around now. I've got it working with an MFS kernel, if you need other help feel free to mail me. Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 7:21:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB77214DDB for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with ESMTP id KAA38364; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Soren Schmidt Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modex support (again) In-Reply-To: <199905180651.IAA27285@freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Soren Schmidt wrote: > It seems Kelly Yancey wrote: > >=20 > > I admit that they are less common than say 320x240 mode x...but they = are > > linear and don't require any hacking to support from applications which > > would use graphics modes (unlike the unchained "modex" modes).=20 > > I absolutely agree that we should keep the kernel as lean as > > possible. And I would *love* to put the modes into a module (that was m= y > > original plan)...but to do that, I need get_mode_param to be extern'ed > > from vga_isa.c so that the module can access the BIOS mode table (or el= se > > re-implement the code in vga_isa.c to access the mode table). All I am > > looking for is the OK to make that routine extern in my patches and I'l= l > > make a module. My biggest concern is that get_mode_param is obviously > > considered an internal API and thus subject to change...change which wo= uld > > then break my KLD. :( > > With a module, I would suggest moving the implemention of the 320x240 > > modex mode there also (or else remove it altogether...but with a module= , > > removing it would be unnessicary). And with a module, there would be no > > harm in implementing the other 6 modex modes (320x400, 320x480, 360x200= , > > 360x240, 360x400, 360x480). > > If I can get past the get_mode_param hangup, then there would be no > > reason no to implement 2 KLD's: one for the tweaked video modes and one > > for the 90-column text modes. >=20 > Hmm, I see no problem in publicising get_mode_param, the only thing > is that it might change over time, but thats another matter... >=20 > -S=F8ren >=20 Well, Kazutaka apparently is already putting the text modes in syscons (it is really just a few extra lines of code to support). But I'll get together a patch set which externs get_mode_param and includes a new module for the 6 modex modes and the other 3 linear modes we've been bouncing around. I'm not going to attempt it at first, but perhaps we could move the existing 320x240 modex mode into the KLD down the road too. I'll post those patches as soon as I'm done with them. Thanks everyone for all the input, Kelly ~kbyanc@alcnet.com~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 7:22:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fionn.sports.gov.uk (dns0.sports.gov.uk [195.89.151.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C93621518A for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ad@fionn.sports.gov.uk) Received: from niamh.sports.gov.uk ([195.89.151.149] helo=fionn.sports.gov.uk) by fionn.sports.gov.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10jleO-0006l8-00; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:19:24 +0000 Message-ID: <37417711.A6F1673F@fionn.sports.gov.uk> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:20:01 +0100 From: Andrew Doran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kelly Yancey Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modex support (again) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> > > I'm not really sure what practical use there is for using graphics modes > > >to render text (and hence why character cell sizes for graphics modes What if FreeBSD ends up supporting mips or sparc? These machines don't have anything like VGA text modes, and PROM consoles suck. > > >that should be axed). Finally, with syscons having the ability to render > > >text fonts in graphics modes, shouldn't we be able to redefine the notion > > >of character cell size for graphics modes to be the default character cell > > >size and allow any available text font be used to render text in graphics > > >modes? NetBSD-current already does this particularly well, in all the common colordepths (but not Mode-X ;): sys/dev/wsfont (in-kernel font table) sys/dev/rasops (raster console "operation sets") sys/dev/wscons (the MI console) Andy. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 7:25:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.promo.de (mail.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B7A1518A for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from d225.promo.de (d225.Promo.DE [194.45.188.225]) by mail.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13125; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:23:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:22:49 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: Kris Kennaway , "Ueda, Kazukiyo" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> In-Reply-To: Originator-Info: login-id=stefan; server=mail X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.3, s/n U-301177] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1999, Ueda, Kazukiyo wrote: > >> I'm pleased to participate in such cool project. Is anybody kind >> enough to tell me how to run this program while the FreeBSD box is >> idle? > > Install the astro/setiathome port. Make sure you have the newest version of the port (for setiathome-1.1). Pre-1.1 version don't work anymore. Unfortunatly, the release of 1.1 came too late for the 3.2 CDs. Even more unfortunate is the fact that all versions (including 1.1) try to send mail by invoking /usr/lib/sendmail... I guess I'll be changing the port quite rapidly for the next few days as next version comes out, which is supposed to fix the sendmail as well as the proxy problem. > One thing I've been meaning to look at though is that it seems to run it > at niceness 1, which isn't exactly friendly to the other consumers of > CPU. You should be able to tweak it easily, though. Would you suggest a different default nice level, then, and what should it be? One can easily modifiy ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d/setiathome.sh to run it with -nice 100, and I'm open to making a level other that 1 the default. Stefan -- M=FChlendamm 12 | Voice +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22089 Hamburg | e-mail: stefan.bethke@hanse.de Germany | stb@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 8: 8:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCBF14FD2 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00457 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:07:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:07:46 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905181507.KAA00457@virtual-voodoo.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last night switched from 3.1 to 4.0. Smooth transition. The only error I've seen is one of my ethernet cards is no longer detected. In the previous kernel (3.1-STABLE) I had the following config line: device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 When the system booted it would detect 'ed1' on the PCI bus and 'ed0' on the isa bus. All was good. Under 4.0 things changed. Now when the system boots the PCI card is assigned to 'ed0' and then a message is printed saying 'ed0' is already used, using next number. But my ISA card isn't probed. I switched the ISA card to 'ed1'. The 'already used' message stopped but my ISA card is still not detected. The PCI card is: ed0: irq 11 at device 15.0 on pci0 ed0: address 52:54:00:dc:08:ca, type NE2000 (16 bit) the ISA card is MIA. I don't even get a 'ed1 not found at' message. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Or tell me how to make the device probing more verbose? -Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:16: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles506.castles.com [208.214.165.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9A915421 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03949; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905181613.JAA03949@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: rkw@dataplex.net Cc: Marc Slemko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 05:14:23 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:13:53 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > However, this applies to the functionality wherever it is implemented. > Moving the formatting to the kernel does not change anything. It "changes" thinks in that it unnecessarily bloats the kernel. > If you are concerned about the time that it takes to do hostname lookups, > that time is not any shorter in the kernel. You can't perform hostname lookups in the kernel. > There are two fundamental approaches that work. > > 1) Lock the structure > Make a snapshot copy > Unlock the structure > Generate the report from the copy > Destroy the copy > > This technique can be used in either userland or kernel implementation. You can't lock kernel datastructures from userland (except for certain very specific cases where the lock is a side-effect of another operation). > 2) Use list traversal protocols that prevent the actual deletes from > occurring while there is another list reader in that portion of the list. > > Again, the only requirement in the kernel is the ability set and clear the > lock. The remainder of the formatting can occur outside the kernel > because the structures being viewed and not destroyed during the > traversal. This is where sysctl is preferable; the system call allows the kernel to perform whatever locking protocol is required to complete the call in a timely and efficient fashion, and all formatting can be performed in userland while the kernel holds no locks. Consider the similarities to NFS directory traversals, and the cookie approach used in NFSv3 to deal with server-side state changes during traversal by the client. You're arguing about a problem that already has several tried and tested solutions. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:35:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3049B1501D for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:35:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id JAA13077; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id JAA01986; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:34:58 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA04416; Tue, 18 May 99 09:34:56 PDT Message-Id: <374196B0.6E599DD7@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:34:56 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Ames Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed driver probe changes? References: <199905181322.IAA00367@virtual-voodoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Ames wrote: > > Under the 4.0 kernel the PCI card is given ed0 and a message > is displayed saying ed0 already in use giving next number. > The isa card is _NEVER_ probed. I don't even get a message > saying it was probed and not found. > > I've tried disabling the pnp controller in the kernel and it > has zero effect on anything. The same thing occurs (ie the PCI > card gets assigned ed0 and the ISA card is never found). Try changing the ISA card to ed1 in the config? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:42:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5D51571C for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16885; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:36:08 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199905181636.NAA16885@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available In-Reply-To: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> from Stefan Bethke at "May 18, 1999 04:22:49 pm" To: stefan.bethke@hanse.de (Stefan Bethke) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:36:08 -0300 (EST) Cc: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Kris Kennaway), kueda@jupiter.qse.tohoku.ac.jp (Ueda Kazukiyo), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Stefan Bethke) // Kris Kennaway wrote: // > On Tue, 18 May 1999, Ueda, Kazukiyo wrote: // > One thing I've been meaning to look at though is that it seems to run it // > at niceness 1, which isn't exactly friendly to the other consumers of // > CPU. You should be able to tweak it easily, though. // // Would you suggest a different default nice level, then, and what should it // be? // // One can easily modifiy ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d/setiathome.sh to run it with // -nice 100, and I'm open to making a level other that 1 the default. What about idprio ? And the installer or manual could also suggest the sysctl tweaks to avoid lazy CPU response. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Enginner jcml@ieee.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:46: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557BA14E3F for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id JAA13489; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id JAA02586; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:44:54 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA04977; Tue, 18 May 99 09:44:52 PDT Message-Id: <37419904.840E1CF1@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:44:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: Marc Slemko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks References: <199905181227.FAA20767@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > > Generally we've been moving towards using sysctl for reading kernel data. > procfs/kernfs is usually the wrong tool for the job in most cases (my > subjective opinion of course). And afterwards, if someone really wants it, you could reimplement procfs using sysctl, taking advantage of the fine-grained access that has already been implemented. Not that procfs gains you anything over sysctl, except some sort of compability with Linux. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:54:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D884C14E3F for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id JAA13625; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id JAA03005; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:53:08 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA05390; Tue, 18 May 99 09:53:05 PDT Message-Id: <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:53:04 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Bethke Cc: Kris Kennaway , "Ueda, Kazukiyo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stefan Bethke wrote: > > Make sure you have the newest version of the port (for setiathome-1.1). > Pre-1.1 version don't work anymore. Unfortunatly, the release of 1.1 came > too late for the 3.2 CDs. Even more unfortunate is the fact that all > versions (including 1.1) try to send mail by invoking /usr/lib/sendmail... > > I guess I'll be changing the port quite rapidly for the next few days as > next version comes out, which is supposed to fix the sendmail as well as > the proxy problem. Thank you. > > One thing I've been meaning to look at though is that it seems to run it > > at niceness 1, which isn't exactly friendly to the other consumers of > > CPU. You should be able to tweak it easily, though. > > Would you suggest a different default nice level, then, and what should it > be? RTP_PRIO_IDLE of course. See rtprio(2). > One can easily modifiy ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d/setiathome.sh to run it with > -nice 100, and I'm open to making a level other that 1 the default. In that case, make the start script run it at idprio: idprio setiathome Phew! That was tough, huh? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 9:59:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.nobell.com [216.140.184.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC40414F60 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:59:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02045; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:59:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Authentication-Warning: nomad.dataplex.net: rkw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:59:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Wackerbarth Reply-To: rkw@dataplex.net To: Mike Smith Cc: Marc Slemko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks In-Reply-To: <199905181613.JAA03949@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > However, this applies to the functionality wherever it is implemented. > > Moving the formatting to the kernel does not change anything. > > It "changes" things in that it unnecessarily bloats the kernel. I agree. My reference was in relation to the the need for locks. Whether you are in the kernel or in userland, you need locks to get around race conditions. > > If you are concerned about the time that it takes to do hostname lookups, > > that time is not any shorter in the kernel. > > You can't perform hostname lookups in the kernel. Today... (And I see no reason to add that functionality there) > > There are two fundamental approaches that work. > > > > 1) Lock the structure > > Make a snapshot copy > > Unlock the structure > > Generate the report from the copy > > Destroy the copy > > > > This technique can be used in either userland or kernel implementation. > > You can't lock kernel datastructures from userland (except for certain > very specific cases where the lock is a side-effect of another > operation). I again agree. The "lock, copy, unlock" sequence would probably be a single operation that userland requests the kernel to perform. > > 2) Use list traversal protocols that prevent the actual deletes from > > occurring while there is another list reader in that portion of the list. > > > > Again, the only requirement in the kernel is the ability set and clear the > > lock. The remainder of the formatting can occur outside the kernel > > because the structures being viewed and not destroyed during the > > traversal. > > This is where sysctl is preferable; the system call allows the kernel > to perform whatever locking protocol is required to complete the call > in a timely and efficient fashion, and all formatting can be performed > in userland while the kernel holds no locks. > > Consider the similarities to NFS directory traversals, and the cookie > approach used in NFSv3 to deal with server-side state changes during > traversal by the client. You're arguing about a problem that already > has several tried and tested solutions. I'm not arguing about anything. I'm stating that the technique is one possible solution to the "race" problem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 10:16:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1243015211 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00748; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:16:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:16:54 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905181716.MAA00748@virtual-voodoo.com> To: steve@virtual-voodoo.com, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: ed driver probe changes? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374196B0.6E599DD7@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wes Peters wrote: > > Steven Ames wrote: > > > > Under the 4.0 kernel the PCI card is given ed0 and a message > > is displayed saying ed0 already in use giving next number. > > The isa card is _NEVER_ probed. I don't even get a message > > saying it was probed and not found. > > > > I've tried disabling the pnp controller in the kernel and it > > has zero effect on anything. The same thing occurs (ie the PCI > > card gets assigned ed0 and the ISA card is never found). > > Try changing the ISA card to ed1 in the config? > Been there. No luck. And still no probe messages. -Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 10:18:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E65214EDB for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA61509; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:17:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:17:48 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Wes Peters Cc: Stefan Bethke , Kris Kennaway , "Ueda, Kazukiyo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <19990518121747.A61302@dan.emsphone.com> References: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com>; from "Wes Peters" on Tue May 18 10:53:04 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 18), Wes Peters said: > Stefan Bethke wrote: > > Would you suggest a different default nice level, then, and what > > should it be? > > RTP_PRIO_IDLE of course. See rtprio(2). > > > One can easily modifiy ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d/setiathome.sh to run it > > -with nice 100, and I'm open to making a level other that 1 the > > -default. > > In that case, make the start script run it at idprio: > > idprio setiathome > > Phew! That was tough, huh? ;^) Problem is that idprio isn't safe. I used to idprio the rc5client, but within a day or do the machine would lock up. Rc5client would get a lock on the root of the filesystem at idprio, and if there was another process running at 100% CPU, rc5client would never get a chance to unlock, causing all the other processes on the system to hang. See PR kern/5641. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 10:46: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alive.znep.com (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-222.oz.net [216.39.144.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A4715474 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24830; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko To: Richard Wackerbarth , "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libkvm sucks In-Reply-To: <37413591.A88872AD@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 1999, Marc Slemko wrote: > > > The reasoning: reading from kernel data structures without any locking has > > obvious race conditions. > [...] > > > This is why netstat will often bail out in the middle with kvm errors on a > > busy machine with lots of TCP connections, especially if you slow it down > > by doing hostname lookups. > > I agree that locking, in one form or another, is required to traverse > dynamic chains. > > However, this applies to the functionality wherever it is implemented. > Moving the formatting to the kernel does not change anything. > > If you are concerned about the time that it takes to do hostname lookups, > that time is not any shorter in the kernel. I never suggested it was. The only thing I was saying is that doing the locking from libkvm ranges between difficult and impossible due to the API, and even if the libkvm API was different you still can't have (or want, IMHO) userland arbitrarily locking kernel data structures without doing evil things. However you do it, the only sane way is to move more functionality to the kernel as compared to the libkvm way. That doesn't have to be the formatting code, and probably shouldn't be. On Tue, 18 May 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Marc Slemko wrote: > > > > In any case, it makes sense, and is a reasonable alternative. > > Unfortunately it isn't portable, but that's life. > > And linux /proc is portable? I wasn't thinking about that, but obviously no; Linux /proc isn't portable. A lot of the time it isn't even portable across different Linux kernel versions. However, libkvm accesses are actually somewhat portable to a certain extent. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 11:45:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E2015352 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA26443; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Greg Lehey Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Doug Rabson , Mike Heffner , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <19990518175802.V89091@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 18 May 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Kirk committed some stuff a week or two ago. And yes, IIRC it was to > allow the same serial port to be used for both purposes. Actually it's to allow DIFFERENT serial ports to be used.. > > Greg > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 11:48:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8349315641 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA54004; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990518114756.A53888@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:47:56 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Mike Smith , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <7465.926974420@zippy.cdrom.com> <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, May 17, 1999 at 02:05:28PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in > /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is > hosed. Will fix this. I followed the lead of the "unoffical" compat22 which was built from libs on Hub. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 11:58:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661B614E7C for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA54046; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:58:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990518115818.B53888@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:58:18 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Mike Smith , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: a.out lib placment (was: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem.) Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <7465.926974420@zippy.cdrom.com> <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905172105.OAA01148@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, May 17, 1999 at 02:05:28PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in > /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is > hosed. I *knew* this was going to bite us in the ass. I brought it up at E-day time... and was ignored. Some body please decide where bits should live. *IF* you upgrade from 2.2.x to 3.x, your /usr/lib a.out libs are moved to /usr/lib/aout, *AND* your /usr/lib/compat a.out libs are moved to /usr/lib/compat/aout. Fine. NOW if you look at the compat2{0,1} bits we shipped with 3.2, they install into /usr/lib/compat/. Thus we have no consistancy. So compat22 is no more broken than ``make aout-to-elf''. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 12: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990BC14F54 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA28399; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905181901.MAA28399@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Andreas Braukmann Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware--anyone playing with it? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:01:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 17 May 1999 23:40:03 +0200 Andreas Braukmann wrote: > ... and the Connectix Virtual PC is available for FreeBSD? No, it's a MacOS program. > that's for sure, ... from a theoretically point of view at least. > But I suppose, that the virtual machine approach would lead to more > performant designs? dunno... the VirtualPC certainly didn't seem to have any performance shortcomings. And, on a 350MHz PowerPC G3, "who cares if it's emulated at the instruction level?" -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 12: 6: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E8B14F88 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.56]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA27A for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:05:53 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00489 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:06:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:06:19 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: FW: Question on rename() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could you guys please give yer own opinions on that? I will compile some of the better arguments and resend them to the Posix revision list... -----FW: <990518120639.ZM1866@tamarix.rdg.opengroup.org>----- Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:06:40 +0100 From: Andrew Josey To: austin-group@opengroup.org Subject: Question on rename() All, The following question was raised to my attention. I'd appreciate thoughts on this and recommendations on the next step best regards Andrew --- Forwarded mail In POSIX 1003.1 1996 in 5.5.3.2 there is the rather unfortunate part "If the old argument and the new argument both refer to links to the same existing file, the rename() function shall return successfully and perform no other action.". In SUSV2 it is stated that "If the old argument and the new argument both refer to, and both link to the same existing file, rename() returns successfully and performs no other action." People are quite bothered by the fact that the Linux kernel follows this, possibly too literally. One consequence is that after a successful rename("aa", "bb"); it is possible that aa still exists, i.e., that stat("aa", &buf); still succeeds. Another is that on a filesystem where filenames are case-sensitive upon readdir() and creat() but case-insensitive for open(), it may be impossible to do rename("austin","Austin"); and rename("austin","aux"); rename("aux","Austin"); would be required. The rationale does not mention such strange cases and just says that the sentence is meant to ensure that rename("x", "x"); does not remove the file x. ------------------------------------------------------ ---End of forwarded mail ----- Andrew Josey The Open Group Austin Group Chair Apex Plaza,Forbury Road, Email: a.josey@opengroup.org Reading,Berks.RG1 1AX,England Tel: +44 118 9508311 ext 2250 Fax: +44 118 9500110 --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 12:16:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E693114D8D for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA16580; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA09732; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:14:56 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA12707; Tue, 18 May 99 12:14:52 PDT Message-Id: <3741BC2C.BA0C1871@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:14:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Nelson Cc: Stefan Bethke , Kris Kennaway , "Ueda, Kazukiyo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com> <19990518121747.A61302@dan.emsphone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Nelson wrote: > > Problem is that idprio isn't safe. I used to idprio the rc5client, but > within a day or do the machine would lock up. Rc5client would get a > lock on the root of the filesystem at idprio, and if there was another > process running at 100% CPU, rc5client would never get a chance to > unlock, causing all the other processes on the system to hang. > > See PR kern/5641. Hmmm. Can you say "inversion proof semaphore?" Bad news, huh? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 12:45:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4640F152B9 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA35770; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905181945.MAA35770@apollo.backplane.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: Dan Nelson , Stefan Bethke , Kris Kennaway , "Ueda, Kazukiyo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available References: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com> <19990518121747.A61302@dan.emsphone.com> <3741BC2C.BA0C1871@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Dan Nelson wrote: :> :> Problem is that idprio isn't safe. I used to idprio the rc5client, but :> within a day or do the machine would lock up. Rc5client would get a :> lock on the root of the filesystem at idprio, and if there was another :> process running at 100% CPU, rc5client would never get a chance to :> unlock, causing all the other processes on the system to hang. :> :> See PR kern/5641. : :Hmmm. Can you say "inversion proof semaphore?" Bad news, huh? : :-- : "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" : :Wes Peters Softweyr LLC :http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com Yes, this is a very real problem. I forgot to mention it. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 13:18:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20B615460 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00361; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:17:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:17:42 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905182017.PAA00361@virtual-voodoo.com> To: bhicks@gatekeep.net Subject: Re: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <003001bea152$6815c540$69c9a1d0@mail.gatekeep.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wow. I don't think that should ever happen but at this point I'll try a lot of things :) Tried it. didn't work. really, isn't there a way to enable more verbose probing so that it says 'ed0 not found at 0x280' or some such? > When I upgraded, my ed0 became ep0.... you might want to try that..... > > > Brandon Hicks - Gate Keeper Technologies > "Trixster" > bhicks@gatekeep.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Ames > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 10:10 AM > Subject: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT > > > > > >Last night switched from 3.1 to 4.0. Smooth transition. The only > >error I've seen is one of my ethernet cards is no longer detected. > > > >In the previous kernel (3.1-STABLE) I had the following config > >line: > > > >device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > > > >When the system booted it would detect 'ed1' on the PCI bus > >and 'ed0' on the isa bus. All was good. Under 4.0 things > >changed. > > > >Now when the system boots the PCI card is assigned to 'ed0' > >and then a message is printed saying 'ed0' is already used, > >using next number. But my ISA card isn't probed. I switched > >the ISA card to 'ed1'. The 'already used' message stopped > >but my ISA card is still not detected. > > > >The PCI card is: > > > >ed0: irq 11 at device 15.0 on pci0 > >ed0: address 52:54:00:dc:08:ca, type NE2000 (16 bit) > > > >the ISA card is MIA. I don't even get a 'ed1 not found at' message. > >Can anyone point me in the right direction? Or tell me how to > >make the device probing more verbose? > > > > -Steve > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 14:22: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1491576A for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA28910; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:34:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905182134.HAA28910@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: a.out lib placment (was: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem.) In-Reply-To: <19990518115818.B53888@nuxi.com> from "David O'Brien" at "May 18, 1999 11:58:18 am" To: obrien@NUXI.com Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:34:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > > It breaks because compat22 is installing _everything_ in > > /usr/lib/compat/aout. We've reproduced this locally - compat22 is > > hosed. > > I *knew* this was going to bite us in the ass. I brought it up at E-day > time... and was ignored. "I hear what you say - I just don't agree" > Some body please decide where bits should live. *IF* you upgrade from > 2.2.x to 3.x, your /usr/lib a.out libs are moved to /usr/lib/aout, *AND* > your /usr/lib/compat a.out libs are moved to /usr/lib/compat/aout. Fine. > > NOW if you look at the compat2{0,1} bits we shipped with 3.2, they > install into /usr/lib/compat/. Thus we have no consistancy. So compat22 > is no more broken than ``make aout-to-elf''. In an elf world, /usr/lib and /usr/lib/compat are for things in elf format. /usr/lib/aout and /usr/lib/compat/aout are legacy directories for things in aout format. I think you are abusing compat22 by adding the aout (legacy) stuff. Why not just build a legacy library bundle and install it where it belongs. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 14:49:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6681550E for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA54664; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990518144934.A54657@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:49:34 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Birrell Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a.out lib placment (was: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem.) Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990518115818.B53888@nuxi.com> <199905182134.HAA28910@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905182134.HAA28910@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Wed, May 19, 1999 at 07:34:38AM +1000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > NOW if you look at the compat2{0,1} bits we shipped with 3.2, they > > install into /usr/lib/compat/. Thus we have no consistancy. So compat22 > > is no more broken than ``make aout-to-elf''. > > I think you are abusing compat22 by adding the aout (legacy) stuff. > Why not just build a legacy library bundle and install it where it > belongs. Huh? I don't follow you here. What non-a.out stuff should be in compat22? The everything in the compat22 I made is a.out. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 14:52:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAFC14D5A for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA28986; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:06:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905182206.IAA28986@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: a.out lib placment (was: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem.) In-Reply-To: <19990518144934.A54657@nuxi.com> from "David O'Brien" at "May 18, 1999 2:49:34 pm" To: obrien@NUXI.com Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:06:05 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, mike@smith.net.au, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > > > NOW if you look at the compat2{0,1} bits we shipped with 3.2, they > > > install into /usr/lib/compat/. Thus we have no consistancy. So compat22 > > > is no more broken than ``make aout-to-elf''. > > > > I think you are abusing compat22 by adding the aout (legacy) stuff. > > Why not just build a legacy library bundle and install it where it > > belongs. > > Huh? I don't follow you here. > What non-a.out stuff should be in compat22? The everything in the > compat22 I made is a.out. So you are just installing it in the wrong place then. [ I haven't installed 3.2, so I haven't seen the problem. I'm responding to things people have _said_. ] -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 15:20:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6311014D72 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 87059 invoked by uid 1000); 18 May 1999 22:26:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:26:26 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seti project / stats reset, new version available Message-ID: <19990519002626.D83255@paert.tse-online.de> References: <224739.3136033369@d225.promo.de> <37419AF0.93569574@softweyr.com> <19990518121747.A61302@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990518121747.A61302@dan.emsphone.com>; from Dan Nelson on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 12:17:48PM -0500 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 12:17:48PM -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > Problem is that idprio isn't safe. I used to idprio the rc5client, but > within a day or do the machine would lock up. oops. That's new for me. I'm running the 'rc5client' on various machines (2.2.6-stable, 2.2.8-stable, 3.1-stable, 3.2-stable, 4.0-current) at the lowest idle priority. I had definately no problems so far. > Rc5client would get a > lock on the root of the filesystem at idprio, and if there was another > process running at 100% CPU, rc5client would never get a chance to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ at least 3 of the machines are on 'heavy cpu-duty' and are very used to run 100% cpu processes. (e.g. batch graphic filtering, 3D-rendering, etc.) > See PR kern/5641. I'll have a look ... -Andreas -- : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 17:30:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kogge.Hanse.DE (kogge.hanse.de [192.76.134.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D198515184; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit-a.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by kogge.Hanse.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA53913; Wed, 19 May 1999 02:29:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from monster.transit-a.hanse.de (monster [193.174.9.163]) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16531; Wed, 19 May 1999 02:29:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 02:30:37 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/astro/setiathome Makefile ports/astro/setiathome/files setiathome.sh setiathome.1 ports/astro/setiathome/pkg INSTALL Message-ID: <17658036.3136069837@monster.transit-a.hanse.de> In-Reply-To: <199905182240.PAA63973@freefall.freebsd.org> Originator-Info: login-id=stb; server=transit.transit-a.hanse.de X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.0, s/n U-301178] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ crossposted to -ports, please follow up to -hackers ] stb@FreeBSD.org wrote: > - Added support for SMP systems to etc/rc.d/setiathome.sh > - Added etc/setiathome.conf with options to set the nice level, the max. > number of processes to run, the working directory, and the the user id > to run as. > - setiathome.1 was missing from Makefile (and +CONTENTS subsequently) > - Updated the man page to reflect the changes. I've left out idprio(8) for now. If someone could point me to a man page explaining the use of kern.quantum, and when it might be useful to fiddle with that knob, I'll happily add that reference to the setiathome man page. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22087 Hamburg Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 18: 5: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BA214E09 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11802; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:32:08 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:32:08 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-May-99 Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO wrote: > > Hmm.. I have access to an SB Ensoniq Audio PCI which has the ES1371 on it. > I also tried an Ensoniq Audio PCI with the ES1371 at first. But this card > did not work. Then I tried a CREATIVE SB PCI128 which has the CREATIVE 5507 > on it. It was working fine on ES1370 drivers. My machine is running > 3.2-stable and I only add the following line to my kernel configuration > file: > > device pcm0 at isa ? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 Shouldn't it just be 'device pcm0'? --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 18:44:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5B614E38; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00340; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:44:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:44:29 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905190144.UAA00340@virtual-voodoo.com> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: ed0/probe solved (Was: re: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG *sigh* No suprise here. As 90% of these things are this was yet another Dumb User Error. I had a base address conflict that kept the card from being probed. Thanks for everyone's help. As always FreeBSD is working just great! -Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 18:55:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E3614CE0 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA40421; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Stefan Bethke Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/astro/setiathome Makefile ports/astro/setiathome/files setiathome.sh setiathome.1 ports/astro/setiathome/pkg INSTALL In-Reply-To: <17658036.3136069837@monster.transit-a.hanse.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Stefan Bethke wrote: > > I've left out idprio(8) for now. > > If someone could point me to a man page explaining the use of kern.quantum, > and when it might be useful to fiddle with that knob, I'll happily add that > reference to the setiathome man page. In 3.2 kern.quantum is set to be teh frequency of how often the kernel re-evaluates the scheduling. Defualt is 10 (10 times per second). changing it to 50 (sysctl -w kern.quantum=50) would make it re-evaluate this more often. in -current and post 3.2 (as of a few minutes ago) it is measured as uSeconds thus the default is 100000 and the equivalent new value would be 20000. (sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000) There were various reasons for the change and hopefully few people had used the (new) kern.quantum feature so the changeover will hopefully impact few people. julian > > > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Bethke > Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 > D-22087 Hamburg > Hamburg, Germany > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 20:18:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68CB15262 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@monk.via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06602 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe) From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199905190318.UAA06602@monk.via.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:18:08 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.1-970608-bsdi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Trimble is selling a gps kit that can be used to create a Stratum 1 GPS referenced NTP server. Qty 1 cost is $995 Qty 10 cost is $525 Are there 9 other people interested out there ? I'd like to try & put together a group purchase. Joe Joe McGuckin ViaNet Communications 994 San Antonio Road Palo Alto, CA 94303 Phone: 650-969-2203 Cell: 650-207-0372 Fax: 650-969-2124 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 23: 2:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A7F15356 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA38227; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> To: Joe McGuckin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? References: <199905190318.UAA06602@monk.via.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Trimble is selling a gps kit that can be used to create a Stratum 1 :GPS referenced NTP server. : :Qty 1 cost is $995 :Qty 10 cost is $525 : :Are there 9 other people interested out there ? I'd like to try & put :together a group purchase. : :Joe : :Joe McGuckin I am not particularly impressed with Trimble equipment. I think you can probably find something better if you are really interested in it. Also, A Qty 1 cost of $1K is pretty high for a GPS these days. -Matt Matthew Dillon :ViaNet Communications :994 San Antonio Road :Palo Alto, CA 94303 : :Phone: 650-969-2203 :Cell: 650-207-0372 :Fax: 650-969-2124 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 23:12: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D0814E55 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA57491; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199905190611.XAA57491@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: assembly listing from crash In-Reply-To: <199905171301.JAA11626@etinc.com> from Dennis at "May 17, 99 09:04:09 pm" To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis writes: > What is required to get an assembly listing of the crashpoint when > analyzing a crash dump? Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x80483c4 in main () at xx.c:8 (gdb) x/10i main 0x80483b4
: pushl %ebp 0x80483b5 : movl %esp,%ebp 0x80483b7 : subl $0x4,%esp 0x80483ba : movl $0x0,0xfffffffc(%ebp) 0x80483c1 : movl 0xfffffffc(%ebp),%edx 0x80483c4 : movl (%edx),%eax 0x80483c6 : jmp 0x80483c8 0x80483c8 : leave 0x80483c9 : ret 0x80483ca : nop ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 18 23:17:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9454814D49 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02920; Wed, 19 May 1999 01:17:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 01:17:23 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? Message-ID: <19990519011723.A2543@futuresouth.com> References: <199905190318.UAA06602@monk.via.net> <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > I am not particularly impressed with Trimble equipment. I > think you can probably find something better if you are > really interested in it. Also, A Qty 1 cost of $1K is > pretty high for a GPS these days. It's certainly overkilled as a timing reference. Look at Garmin (who makes a $99 OEM receiver although I do not know if it's got a 1 PPS output), Canadian Marconi, Motorola, Ashtech, etc. which all make lower cost GPS boards. Look at http://www.navtechgps.com (note that they generally have high prices) for some ideas. Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 0:22:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles504.castles.com [208.214.165.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00DF1543F for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 00:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00480; Wed, 19 May 1999 00:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905190720.AAA00480@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 23:02:38 PDT." <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:20:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :Trimble is selling a gps kit that can be used to create a Stratum 1 > :GPS referenced NTP server. > : > :Qty 1 cost is $995 > :Qty 10 cost is $525 > : > :Are there 9 other people interested out there ? I'd like to try & put > :together a group purchase. > > I am not particularly impressed with Trimble equipment. I > think you can probably find something better if you are > really interested in it. Also, A Qty 1 cost of $1K is > pretty high for a GPS these days. I guess it depends on the level of integration. The Coetanian unit is about $2k, which includes the ethernet interface and all the bits. I have to say I like it though. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 1: 2:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kogge.Hanse.DE (kogge.hanse.de [192.76.134.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1007114C88 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 01:02:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit-a.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by kogge.Hanse.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63884; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:01:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Received: from monster.transit-a.hanse.de (monster [193.174.9.163]) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17540; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:01:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stefan.bethke@hanse.de) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:02:29 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: Julian Elischer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/astro/setiathome Makefile ports/astro/setiathome/files setiathome.sh setiathome.1 ports/astro/setiathome/pkg INSTALL Message-ID: <19288670.3136096949@monster.transit-a.hanse.de> In-Reply-To: Originator-Info: login-id=stb; server=transit.transit-a.hanse.de X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.0, s/n U-301178] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Wed, 19 May 1999, Stefan Bethke wrote: >> >> I've left out idprio(8) for now. >> >> If someone could point me to a man page explaining the use of >> kern.quantum, and when it might be useful to fiddle with that knob, I'll >> happily add that reference to the setiathome man page. > > In 3.2 kern.quantum is set to be teh frequency of how often the kernel > re-evaluates the scheduling. Defualt is 10 (10 times per second). > changing it to 50 > (sysctl -w kern.quantum=50) would make it re-evaluate this more often. > in -current and post 3.2 (as of a few minutes ago) it is > measured as uSeconds thus the default is 100000 and the equivalent > new value would be 20000. (sysctl -w kern.quantum=20000) > > There were various reasons for the change and hopefully few people had > used the (new) kern.quantum feature so the changeover will hopefully > impact few people. Thanks, Julian, but I think _I_ know how it works. Please point me to the relevant man page in 2.2, 3.x and -current, so I can include that reference in setiathome's man mage. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22087 Hamburg Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 1: 6:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F338E14D91 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 01:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id KAA26969; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:05:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:05:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? In-Reply-To: <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have you asked them about a USB version of it? If they will have a USB version in the near future, let me know. I am more than willing to write the driver for it, if a sample device including specs passes through me. When finished I would send the device on to you. It seems that they have been thinking about it, maybe they by now have it. Nick > :Trimble is selling a gps kit that can be used to create a Stratum 1 > :GPS referenced NTP server. > : > :Qty 1 cost is $995 > :Qty 10 cost is $525 > : > :Are there 9 other people interested out there ? I'd like to try & put > :together a group purchase. > : > :Joe > : > :Joe McGuckin > > I am not particularly impressed with Trimble equipment. I > think you can probably find something better if you are > really interested in it. Also, A Qty 1 cost of $1K is > pretty high for a GPS these days. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > :ViaNet Communications > :994 San Antonio Road > :Palo Alto, CA 94303 > : > :Phone: 650-969-2203 > :Cell: 650-207-0372 > :Fax: 650-969-2124 > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 1:57:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3339157E7 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 01:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from kim.ispra.webweaving.org (va-166.skylink.it [194.185.55.166]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13310; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:58:44 +0200 Received: from kim.ispra.webweaving.org (kim.ispra.webweaving.org [10.0.0.2]) by kim.ispra.webweaving.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02694; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:42:52 GMT X-Passed: MX on Ispra.WebWeaving.org Wed, 19 May 1999 08:42:52 GMT and masked X-No-Spam: Neither the receipients nor the senders email address(s) are to be used for Unsolicited (Commercial) Email without the explicit written consent of either party; as a per-message fee is incurred for inbound and outbound traffic to the originator. Posted-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:42:52 GMT Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:42:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@kim.ispra.webweaving.org To: Nick Hibma Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > :Trimble is selling a gps kit that can be used to create a Stratum 1 > > :GPS referenced NTP server. > > : > > :Qty 1 cost is $995 > > :Qty 10 cost is $525 Actually their developer's kit is significantly cheaper; and you can use the CM boards quite easily with xntpd after you have programmed them to output the right NMEA strings using the supplied DOS taps config application. If you need more details; let me know. We can program them here. It might be an idea to just program a batch :-) > > :Are there 9 other people interested out there ? I'd like to try & put > > :together a group purchase. > > > > I am not particularly impressed with Trimble equipment. I > > think you can probably find something better if you are > > really interested in it. Also, A Qty 1 cost of $1K is > > pretty high for a GPS these days. At home I quite happyly use a cheap DeLorme GPS connected to xntpd and it just works and works and works :-) I did modify the serial output port though; to get a 5v signal on the RI; which the DeLorme unit can use instead of its batteries. But then again; these things both output serial NMEA, no proper ethernet; and no easy to use PPS signal unless you solder something. Dw. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 2: 8:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailserver.display-umea.se (mailserver.display-umea.se [194.165.230.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE6915340 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 02:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cain@display-umea.se) Received: from localhost (cain@localhost) by mailserver.display-umea.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22370 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from cain@display-umea.se) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Emil Thelin To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /dev/dsp Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, Is there a way of resetting /dev/dsp? //Emil .. Emil Thelin emil-t@display-umea.se work(090177950) http://emil.leker.med.nalle.puh.org mobile(0706813428) "Another megabytes the dust." .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 3: 8:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EFC152A5 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 03:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.13) with ESMTP id WAA14163; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:08:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA99772; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:08:33 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:08:33 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) Message-ID: <19990519220833.A99692@clear.co.nz> References: <199905190318.UAA06602@monk.via.net> <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > [various GPS chat] I have been meaning to do some research on this kind of stuff for a while. We have GPS receivers in the machine room that supply clock for some of the transmission network, but when I ask the telco guys about the output of these receivers they just frown confusedly and say "it's a 2 meg clock". I haven't mentioned NTP, because I can't be bothered to spell it for them :) So, we have an RF GPS source in the next rack which we can split and run into our racks on coax. What kind of receiver do we need to provide a synch source for xntpd to chime off? We have Ultra 2s and x86/FreeBSD boxes available which are running xntpd, but which are currently chiming of stratum-2 sources on the other side of the planet, which just seems sub-optimal :) Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 3:32:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00AAD1515D for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 03:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:35:28 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Joe Abley' , Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:30:38 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley@clear.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 12:09 PM > To: Matthew Dillon > Cc: Joe McGuckin; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; jabley@clear.co.nz > Subject: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) > > On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > [various GPS chat] > > I have been meaning to do some research on this kind of stuff for a > while. > We have GPS receivers in the machine room that supply clock for some > of > the transmission network, but when I ask the telco guys about the > output > of these receivers they just frown confusedly and say "it's a 2 meg > clock". > I haven't mentioned NTP, because I can't be bothered to spell it for > them :) > [ML] Back to my olden telco days some 10+ years ago when SDH was on paper only and ATM was on benches, this sounds like 2MHz H1* clock synchronized to GPS. Since transmission does not need the time of day info (at least it did not need it last time I had any contact with it, ages ago), I don't think there is any time of day info in that clock output which would make this particular GPS receiver useless for NTP purposes. Unless, of course, there is another output on the receiver which provides the time of day info as well. [ML] * I think it's H1 I'm talking about: 30+2 channels of 64kbps. European equivalent of T1. Approx. 2MHz. [ML] /Marino > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 4: 2:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573E115453 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 04:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.13) with ESMTP id XAA29849; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:02:48 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA00581; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:02:44 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:02:44 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Ladavac Marino Cc: Matthew Dillon , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) Message-ID: <19990519230244.B133@clear.co.nz> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at>; from Ladavac Marino on Wed, May 19, 1999 at 12:30:38PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 12:30:38PM +0200, Ladavac Marino wrote: > [ML] Back to my olden telco days some 10+ years ago when SDH > was on paper only and ATM was on benches, this sounds like 2MHz H1* > clock synchronized to GPS. Since transmission does not need the time of > day info (at least it did not need it last time I had any contact with > it, ages ago), I don't think there is any time of day info in that clock > output which would make this particular GPS receiver useless for NTP > purposes. Unless, of course, there is another output on the receiver > which provides the time of day info as well. I had kind of assumed the same thing; however, I was hoping I could T off a feed from the GPS antenna to a new receiver with different outputs, which we would purchase to provide time-of-day synchronisation rather than 1/2000 second synchronisation. It seems that there are a number of receivers that will do the job, but people are mentioning async interfaces and ethernet interfaces, and I am confused :) More random off-topic questions: a GPS synchronised clock is stratum-2, right? The caesium clock which provides synchronisation to the GPS is stratum-1? Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Feel free to divert me privately to a FAQ on this, rather than cluttering up -hackers (I looked but couldn't find one). > [ML] * I think it's H1 I'm talking about: 30+2 channels of > 64kbps. European equivalent of T1. Approx. 2MHz. E1. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 4:54:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gidgate.gid.co.uk [193.123.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F33F14C2B for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 04:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA13267; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:54:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990519125413.007b2420@192.168.255.1> X-Sender: rbmail@192.168.255.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:54:13 +0100 To: Joe Abley From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990519230244.B133@clear.co.nz> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 23:02 19/05/99 +1200, you wrote: [...] >Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Feel free to divert me privately to >a FAQ on this, rather than cluttering up -hackers (I looked but couldn't >find one). The fount of all knowledge appears to be http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp -- Bob Bishop +44 118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 118 989 4254 (0800-1800 UK) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 6:38: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D72F154D9 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14562; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3742BEA6.E01BFF40@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:37:42 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dirk-Willem van Gulik Cc: Nick Hibma , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > At home I quite happyly use a cheap DeLorme GPS connected to xntpd > and it just works and works and works :-) I did modify the serial > output port though; to get a 5v signal on the RI; which the DeLorme > unit can use instead of its batteries. > > But then again; these things both output serial NMEA, no proper > ethernet; and no easy to use PPS signal unless you solder something. But NTP does have support for the $GPRMC sentence, right? I've been using my Garmin GPS-II off and on since I bought it; it was sort of purchased to play with NTP, then used on my sailboat. Yah, right. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 6:51: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A11F15604 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14597; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3742C17B.9FC4FB96@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:49:47 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley Cc: Matthew Dillon , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) References: <199905190318.UAA06602@monk.via.net> <199905190602.XAA38227@apollo.backplane.com> <19990519220833.A99692@clear.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe Abley wrote: > > On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:02:38PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > [various GPS chat] > > I have been meaning to do some research on this kind of stuff for a while. > We have GPS receivers in the machine room that supply clock for some of > the transmission network, but when I ask the telco guys about the output > of these receivers they just frown confusedly and say "it's a 2 meg clock". > I haven't mentioned NTP, because I can't be bothered to spell it for them :) > > So, we have an RF GPS source in the next rack which we can split and run > into our racks on coax. What kind of receiver do we need to provide a > synch source for xntpd to chime off? Just about any GPS receiver with serial output will do, depending on your absolute accuracy requirements. IIRC, with serial NMEA 0138 outputs, ntp sees an overall accuracy of +/- 120 usec. Most people can live with that. ;^) West Marine has a nice little Garmin handheld unit on sale for like $99 right now. If it has an external antenna jack, it would work as well as anything. You'll need to get +12v DC to it, as well as a serial line to your ntp server. As for mounting, I'd just wire- tie it to the rack. High-tech stuff, you know. http://www.garmin.com/ http://www.westmarine.com/ http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp Happy surfing! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 7:46:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD4D155D8 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:46:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA08516; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:46:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3742CE27.97569B4D@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:43:51 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Ames Cc: bhicks@gatekeep.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT References: <199905182017.PAA00361@virtual-voodoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Ames wrote: > > Wow. I don't think that should ever happen but at this point I'll > try a lot of things :) > > Tried it. didn't work. > > really, isn't there a way to enable more verbose probing so that > it says 'ed0 not found at 0x280' or some such? I was waiting someone ELSE answer this, but... Read /usr/src/UPDATING. And, more to the point, junk your kernel configuration file, and build a new one using GENERIC/LINT as reference. Things changed a lot between 3.x and 4.x in this particular respect. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 9: 2: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from surf.iae.nl (surf.IAE.nl [194.151.66.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4510014C28; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:01:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arikkert@surf.IAE.nl) Received: by surf.iae.nl (Postfix, from userid 12701) id 79DD69757; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:01:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by surf.iae.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 216009BC; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:01:58 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:01:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andre Rikkert de Koe To: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sent this question to newsgroup comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc but I found the two answers I got not sufficient. The answers were like "it's inherent to Unix" and "Just kill those processes". So now I'm trying the mailing list. ------------ Hello FreeBSD users, We are an ISP and we recently installed FreeBSD 3.1 on our main logonserver. Since than almost every day we find timeconsuming processes running while the user isn't even logged in (anymore). These programs are mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. We are sure that they were started to run in foreground. However in the top-example "brouwert" was not logged in at that moment. Only thing we can do is to kill the proces. Does anyone has a clue what's the cause of this ? last pid: 67601; load averages: 1.37, 1.44, 1.38 up 8+05:09:52 14:31:33 261 processes: 5 running, 254 sleeping, 1 stopped, 1 zombie Mem: 160M Active, 36M Inact, 35M Wired, 12M Cache, 8344K Buf, 5572K Free Swap: 570M Total, 55M Used, 516M Free, 10% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 39448 brouwert 84 0 2240K 1668K RUN 74:51 79.59% 79.59% lynx 67582 arikkert 47 0 2004K 1052K RUN 0:01 37.00% 1.81% top 60019 root 2 0 10520K 10224K RUN 0:32 0.98% 0.98% named {rest of top-output is cut} Andre Rikkert de Koe Internet Access Eindhoven email : arikkert@iae.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 9:22:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BEE14DA5; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA60181; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:22:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:22:02 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Andre Rikkert de Koe Cc: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 Message-ID: <19990519112202.A59883@dan.emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from "Andre Rikkert de Koe" on Wed May 19 18:01:57 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 19), Andre Rikkert de Koe said: > We are an ISP and we recently installed FreeBSD 3.1 on our main > logonserver. Since than almost every day we find timeconsuming > processes running while the user isn't even logged in (anymore). > These programs are mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. > We are sure that they were started to run in foreground. However in > the top-example "brouwert" was not logged in at that moment. Only > thing we can do is to kill the proces. > > Does anyone has a clue what's the cause of this ? It's usually due to a bug in the application. When a user exits, the stdin/stdout filedescriptors on any backgrounded processes go away. That makes any read() calls return with an error. If the application doesn't check the return value of its read(), it can go into a tight loop it'll never exit. You can check to see if this is the problem by running truss -p 39448 . Check to see if it's doing the same read() or write() over and over. Tin used to have this bug, but I thought it was fixed long ago. Lynx shoudln't have any problems either. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 9:28:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EFE14DA5; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:28:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13768; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:28:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:28:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199905191628.MAA13768@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Andre Rikkert de Koe Cc: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG < said: > logonserver. Since than almost every day we find timeconsuming processes > running while the user isn't even logged in (anymore). These programs are > mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. We are sure that they Some broken interactive programs don't bother to check whether the terminal I/O they do succeeds or not, and will happily sit there spinning at a revoked tty forever. It is possible for these programs to persist after logout if they either (1) ignore SIGHUP or (2) were started in such a way as to block the propagation of SIGHUP to them (some shells can do this). -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 9:50:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1928015156; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA04469; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:44:39 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905191444.QAA04469@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 To: dnelson@emsphone.com (Dan Nelson) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:44:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: arikkert@surf.IAE.nl, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990519112202.A59883@dan.emsphone.com> from "Dan Nelson" at May 19, 99 11:21:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 192 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > These programs are mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. ... "ee" and "pico" are two more. ee is particularly annoying since it is one of the "supported" editors... luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 10: 2: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (steve.cioe.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C881514D for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:01:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA59024; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:01:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:01:15 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199905191701.MAA59024@virtual-voodoo.com> To: dcs@newsguy.com, steve@virtual-voodoo.com Subject: Re: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT Cc: bhicks@gatekeep.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3742CE27.97569B4D@newsguy.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Read /usr/src/UPDATING. And, more to the point, junk your kernel > configuration file, and build a new one using GENERIC/LINT as > reference. Things changed a lot between 3.x and 4.x in this > particular respect. > Always good advice. And always advice that I use. This wasn't the issue. I track things pretty closely which is why I was suprised. As I said in another message it turned out to be a stupid error on my part. But, again, thank you for the timeless advice. -Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 10: 6:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C1F154DC; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA02484; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:05:58 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3742DF58.583E9C29@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:57:12 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Ames Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed0/probe solved (Was: re: ed0/probe problem in 4.0-CURRENT) References: <199905190144.UAA00340@virtual-voodoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Ames wrote: > > *sigh* No suprise here. As 90% of these things are this was yet > another Dumb User Error. I had a base address conflict that kept > the card from being probed. So, can we say it was due? ;-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 11:12:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6BE14F27 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from kim.ispra.webweaving.org (va-184.skylink.it [194.185.55.184]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04095; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:12:51 +0200 Received: from brunte.ispra.webweaving.org (brunte.ispra.webweaving.org [10.0.0.12]) by kim.ispra.webweaving.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03277; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:53:42 GMT X-Passed: MX on Ispra.WebWeaving.org Wed, 19 May 1999 14:53:42 GMT and masked X-No-Spam: Neither the receipients nor the senders email address(s) are to be used for Unsolicited (Commercial) Email without the explicit written consent of either party; as a per-message fee is incurred for inbound and outbound traffic to the originator. Posted-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:53:42 GMT Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:58:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@brunte.ispra.webweaving.org To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any interest in GPS NTP servers ? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3742BEA6.E01BFF40@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > But then again; these things both output serial NMEA, no proper > > ethernet; and no easy to use PPS signal unless you solder something. > > But NTP does have support for the $GPRMC sentence, right? I've been > using my Garmin GPS-II off and on since I bought it; it was sort of > purchased to play with NTP, then used on my sailboat. Yah, right. ;^) Yes; and just GPRMC. Unfortunately units such as the DeLorme require a special startup string to start; and more specialist units, such as those sold by Trimble have special modes where they concentrate just on the time. But nothing you cannot fix in a three line patch to xntpd. Dw. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 11:20:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86BBA15164 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:20:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17939; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:45:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:45:37 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Andre Rikkert de Koe Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Andre Rikkert de Koe wrote: > > I sent this question to newsgroup comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc but I found > the two answers I got not sufficient. The answers were like "it's inherent > to Unix" and "Just kill those processes". > So now I'm trying the mailing list. Sir, you may want to look at "idled" it's in the port collection: /usr/ports/sysutils/idled > > ------------ > > Hello FreeBSD users, > > We are an ISP and we recently installed FreeBSD 3.1 on our main > logonserver. Since than almost every day we find timeconsuming processes > running while the user isn't even logged in (anymore). These programs are > mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. We are sure that they > were started to run in foreground. However in the top-example "brouwert" > was not logged in at that moment. Only thing we can do is to kill the > proces. > > Does anyone has a clue what's the cause of this ? > > > last pid: 67601; load averages: 1.37, 1.44, 1.38 up > 8+05:09:52 14:31:33 > 261 processes: 5 running, 254 sleeping, 1 stopped, 1 zombie > > Mem: 160M Active, 36M Inact, 35M Wired, 12M Cache, 8344K Buf, 5572K Free > Swap: 570M Total, 55M Used, 516M Free, 10% Inuse > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND > 39448 brouwert 84 0 2240K 1668K RUN 74:51 79.59% 79.59% lynx > 67582 arikkert 47 0 2004K 1052K RUN 0:01 37.00% 1.81% top > 60019 root 2 0 10520K 10224K RUN 0:32 0.98% 0.98% named why are you running named on a shell box? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 14:24: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.kek.jp (mail.kek.jp [130.87.32.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54AF14EC1 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yosimoto@mail.kek.jp) Received: from [130.87.82.104] (syg3.kek.jp [130.87.82.104]) by mail.kek.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/KEKconfig97122516) with ESMTP id GAA05929 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:18:06 +0900 (JST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1Jr1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:24:00 +0900 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO Subject: Re: No sound (Ensoniq Audio PCI 1370) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:32 +0930 05/19/99, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > device pcm0 at isa ? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 > > Shouldn't it just be 'device pcm0'? Yes. I only add 'device pcm0' to my kernel configuration file. % dmesg (snap) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x03 on pci0.1.0 chip2: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.0 chip3: rev 0x02 on pci0.4.3 es1: rev 0x01 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 pcm1: using I/O space register mapping at 0xd000 (snap) ---------------------------------------------------------- KEK, High Energy Accelerator Research Organization Shin-ichi YOSHIMOTO To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 15: 8:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r25.bfm.org [208.18.213.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBA814CA7 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA00268 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:08:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:08:23 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: c9x (new ANSI C) Message-ID: <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello All, I have recently exchanged some email with a person involved in the upcoming c9x - new version of ANSI C, which is, among other things, supposed to bring some changes in localization functions. Since I am working on the wctype.h functions, I asked him where I could learn more about the new standard. He told me to download it from www.c9x.org, but to do it quickly because as soon as it becomes the official ISO standard he will have to remove it from the web (he did not say why, but we all know how much ISO charges for its standards). I just downloaded it, and thought I'd share the fact with you - anyone interested in the upcoming changes to ISO C may want to download it now as well. Get the text version as the pdf version appears corrupt. Here's the URL again, all by itself: http://www.c9x.org/ Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 15:17:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F164155C8 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 15:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA72492; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:16:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) In-Reply-To: <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > Hello All, > > I have recently exchanged some email with a person involved in the upcoming > c9x - new version of ANSI C, which is, among other things, supposed to bring > some changes in localization functions. > > Since I am working on the wctype.h functions, I asked him where I could learn > more about the new standard. He told me to download it from www.c9x.org, but > to do it quickly because as soon as it becomes the official ISO standard he > will have to remove it from the web (he did not say why, but we all know how > much ISO charges for its standards). > > I just downloaded it, and thought I'd share the fact with you - anyone > interested in the upcoming changes to ISO C may want to download it now as well. > Get the text version as the pdf version appears corrupt. > > Here's the URL again, all by itself: > > http://www.c9x.org/ I tell you, I must say that the new spec, from what I've heard (and some limited reading of magazine articles), brings in a lot of C++ to C, and really is a gift to compiler vendors. No changes *I'd* want. Of course, the only OO language I care for is Java, being that it's far simpler than C++. Becoming well versed in C++ has meant that I can now bore you endlessly with well expressed reasons why I dislike C++. Now you have all the language propeller-heads wanting to change C into a C++ lookalike. If they succeed in doing it to Java, I may have to drop Java. I hope we aren't all forced to adopt the new changes. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 15:22:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vmunix.psn.ie (bh-cw34-206.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.61.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D26614C0B for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 15:22:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ad@fionn.sports.gov.uk) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by vmunix.psn.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10kDs1-0000Cv-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:27:22 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:27:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Doran X-Sender: ad@vmunix.psn.ie To: Chuck Robey Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > Becoming well versed in C++ has meant that I can now bore you endlessly > with well expressed reasons why I dislike C++. Now you have all the > language propeller-heads wanting to change C into a C++ lookalike. I've always preferred Objective-C, simply because it's unintrusive (not that I speak it that well :). - ad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 16: 2:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r28.bfm.org [208.18.213.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E06E014DBE for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id SAA00240; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:02:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:01:51 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) Message-ID: <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Wed, May 19, 1999 at 06:16:04PM -0400 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 06:16:04PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > I tell you, I must say that the new spec, from what I've heard (and some > limited reading of magazine articles), brings in a lot of C++ to C, and > really is a gift to compiler vendors. No changes *I'd* want. Ye, gods! You're scaring me. I tried C++ several years ago, studying it from the MS Visual C++ tutorial. What I read impressed me very much until I actually tried it. Ever since: C++? No thank you! I wrote a video special effects library in it. After I compiled it to assembly language, I was horified. All constructors doing nothing but calling other constructors doing nothing but calling other cons.... Same with destructors. And the MS book was outright lying (gee, surprise): It claimed that one of the biggest advantages of C++ over C is that if you change the C++ class, you need not recompile the code using it. What a piece of bunk. In C++ the caller allocates the memory called by the class. If you make the class bigger, recompile the class library but not the calling code, you may expect serious trouble! It should be the constructor that allocates the memory; the destructor that frees it. That way you could rely on having exactly the amount of memory needed for each class no matter what version of the class library you use. > Of course, the only OO language I care for is Java, being that it's far > simpler than C++. The only OO language I care for is assembly language. :-) It's amazing how OO you can get when you call all the shots. :-) For example, I always pass the "this" pointer in ECX. Then I start every function with a jecxz so I cannot inadvertantly use a null pointer. > Becoming well versed in C++ has meant that I can now bore you endlessly > with well expressed reasons why I dislike C++. Now you have all the > language propeller-heads wanting to change C into a C++ lookalike. Ouch. Please noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 16:42:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10AF414E2E for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA44260; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905192342.QAA44260@apollo.backplane.com> To: Ladavac Marino Cc: "'Joe Abley'" , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : [ gps talk ] :... I've been very impressed with the newer ( last 5 months ) Garmin handhelds. The older ones only had 8 channel receivers. The newer ones have 12 channel receivers sensitive enough that the units often work indoors. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 16:54:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051E614EFC for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17959; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:54:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199905192354.TAA17959@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andy Doran Cc: Chuck Robey , "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 21:27:21 -0000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:54:01 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 19 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Becoming well versed in C++ has meant that I can now bore you endlessly > > with well expressed reasons why I dislike C++. Now you have all the > > language propeller-heads wanting to change C into a C++ lookalike. > > > I've always preferred Objective-C, simply because it's unintrusive (not > that I speak it that well :). Truly and example of the "less is more" concept in action. I've done some non-trivial development in Objective-C, and I can assure you that I haven't missed C++'s operator overloading. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 16:54:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E939815670; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA16992; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:24:28 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA00052; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:25:19 +0930 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:25:19 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Andre Rikkert de Koe Cc: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Andre Rikkert de Koe wrote: > I sent this question to newsgroup comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc but I found > the two answers I got not sufficient. The answers were like "it's inherent > to Unix" and "Just kill those processes". > So now I'm trying the mailing list. As pointed out by other posters, this is the symptom of buggy software which doesn't properly check for errors on reads or writes. Make sure you're running the most recent versions of these programs - I would have expected these problems would have been (mostly) fixed by now. If your users don't need to run long-term CPU-intensive jobs, you can place them in a login class with a CPU time limit in /etc/login.conf - this will kill their processes once they consume more CPU time than this. Alternatively, you could write a little shell script which periodically checks for 'rogue' processes: say any program on a known 'bad list' which is using up significant amounts of CPU. You could also terminate processes which are owned by a user who isn't logged in, which may be suitable for your needs. I've seen this done but I can't remember whether it was a capability provided by the base system or an external script. Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 17:44:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.bby.com.au (ns.bby.com.au [192.83.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C3315816; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by fw.bby.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) id KAA13993; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:44:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au(192.168.71.20) via SMTP by fw.bby.com.au, id smtpd013990; Thu May 20 00:44:04 1999 Received: from lightning (lightning [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14033; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:44:04 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199905200044.KAA14033@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 From: Gregory Bond To: Dan Nelson Cc: Andre Rikkert de Koe , freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 19 May 1999 11:22:02 -0500. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:44:03 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It's usually due to a bug in the application. When a user exits, the > stdin/stdout filedescriptors on any backgrounded processes go away. > That makes any read() calls return with an error. If the application > doesn't check the return value of its read(), it can go into a tight > loop it'll never exit. There's another failure mode that has the same results. When a user logs out, the process is supposed to receive a SIGHUP (the HUP is from "HangUP" as in modems!). Applications are supposed to exit gracefully on receipt of SIGHUP, and if the application does nothing in the code it does work. Some applications try and be clever: they catch SIGHUP and attempt to write to stout/sterr when they get a signal. This write will fail, and stupic applications catch this error and then attempt to write a diagnostic, which fails, so they catch this error and attempt to write a diagnostic, which fails, ...... Of course, none of _my_ programs have ever made that mistake..... Not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 17:44:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net [209.3.218.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6C315876 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-117-159.bellatlantic.net [151.198.117.159]) by smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29901 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37435B3F.F7033E46@bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:45:51 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-980222-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: boot troubles in 3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I have tried to install 3.1 on two machines but on both of them I was not able to boot it after installation. The 3.0-snapshot from May-98 worked fine on both of them. But 3.1 did not boot. First, the MBR boot manager was not able to boot any partition, nor FreeBSD nor UnixWare. After I replaced it with boot manager from 3.0 it worked but then some later stage of the boot was not able to find the kernel. Both machines have Phoenix BIOS (one is Intel, another Unisys). One has IDE disk, another has SCSI. I'm about to look at the problem but want to make sure first that it's not a known bug that was fixed long ago (sorry, I have not tracked -hackers for about half a year). Any information will be appreciated. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 20:42:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565D114D84; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26517; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:41:29 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15383; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:42:13 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA25592; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:42:13 +0800 Message-Id: <199905200342.LAA25592@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SGI to release XFS under Open Source license Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:42:13 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some of you may already know this - I'm wondering about the pain involved in fitting it to our architecture. Journaling. Hmmm. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,36807,00.html?owv -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 21:12:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B196714D69 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id VAA04624; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id VAA06659; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:09:59 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19118; Wed, 19 May 99 21:09:49 PDT Message-Id: <37438B0C.C97BE4CE@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:09:49 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: Andy Doran , Chuck Robey , "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) References: <199905192354.TAA17959@whizzo.transsys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Louis A. Mamakos" wrote: > > > On Wed, 19 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > Becoming well versed in C++ has meant that I can now bore you endlessly > > > with well expressed reasons why I dislike C++. Now you have all the > > > language propeller-heads wanting to change C into a C++ lookalike. > > > > I've always preferred Objective-C, simply because it's unintrusive (not > > that I speak it that well :). > > Truly and example of the "less is more" concept in action. I've done > some non-trivial development in Objective-C, and I can assure you that > I haven't missed C++'s operator overloading. I on the other hand have written working embedded systems in C++ and find it well suited for ANY programming purpose, as long as you under- stand what is really happening inside the language and use the features that are appropriate for your application. Programmers who like language X because they don't have to know what's going on under the hood worry me, because that means they're trusting the operation of their software to programmers they literally know nothing about -- the compiler writers. And I've been at this FAR too long to implicitly trust the compiler writers, no matter HOW good they are. Poor craftsmen blame their tools, skilled craftsmen make the tools at hand produce works of art. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 21:15: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C753414D1A for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:15:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id VAA04628; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id VAA06690; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:13:31 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19263; Wed, 19 May 99 21:13:26 PDT Message-Id: <37438BE5.71C7B560@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:13:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Ladavac Marino , "'Joe Abley'" , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <199905192342.QAA44260@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > : [ gps talk ] > :... > > I've been very impressed with the newer ( last 5 months ) Garmin > handhelds. The older ones only had 8 channel receivers. The newer > ones have 12 channel receivers sensitive enough that the units often > work indoors. My GPS-II was one of the first 12-channel receivers, and works just fine inside my house (lumber, brick, stucco) and my boat (fiberglass, metal mast and rigging), but not inside work (steel-frame 7 story monster) or my truck, unless I slide it up on the dash so it's not under the roof. I haven't tried duct-taping it in the sun roof on the Land Cruiser yet, but might do so this weekend. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 21:22:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from void.bloodletting.com (void.bloodletting.com [209.31.32.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E174E14D1A for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mouse@bloodletting.com) Received: (qmail 15254 invoked from network); 20 May 1999 04:31:36 -0000 Received: from rust.bloodletting.com (HELO rust) (10.6.66.13) by void.bloodletting.com with SMTP; 20 May 1999 04:31:36 -0000 From: "Nick Popoff" To: Subject: SMP Question Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bea278$cf79e500$0d42060a@rust.bloodletting.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm exploring hardware setups for FreeBSD and I'm curious how SMP is coming. What is the consensus on its stability at this point, and how far is it from loosing its 'beta' classification? Also, anyone running FreeBSD on a Xeon processor? I'm trying to figure out the best way to max FreeBSD's performance, and what gives a good return for the money. Any advice appreciated! =20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 21:55:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from abby.skypoint.net (abby.skypoint.net [199.86.32.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D9214F04 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bruce@zuhause.mn.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by abby.skypoint.net (8.8.7/jl 1.3) with UUCP id XAA29450 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:55:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by zuhause.mn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27152; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:53:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bruce) From: Bruce Albrecht MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14147.38233.283312.468092@zuhause.mn.org> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:53:45 -0500 (CDT) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decent network cards for 100Mbit? In-Reply-To: <372DC456.D1653941@softweyr.com> References: <199905030841.QAA25568@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> <372DC456.D1653941@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters writes: > The LinkSys cards use the LiteOn PNIC chip, which is a "follow-on" to > the DEC Tulip. There is a driver for it in 3.x (device pn), you'd have > to back-port it to 2.2.x if you want to use it there. I've only had > them for a few days but so far everything has come up roses. They're > selling at warehouse.com for $29.99 with a $10 rebate, making them > about the cost of an expensive lunch. ;^) I just picked up the LinkSys card today at Office Depot. It's on sale for $29.99 this week, and even though they were advertising a $10 rebate, the mail-in rebate they gave me was for $20, making it a ~$10 ethernet card. Alas, it's only one per person/household/address. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 22:16: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E45F14CEC for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA73420; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:14:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Wes Peters Cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , Andy Doran , "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) In-Reply-To: <37438B0C.C97BE4CE@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > Truly and example of the "less is more" concept in action. I've done > > some non-trivial development in Objective-C, and I can assure you that > > I haven't missed C++'s operator overloading. > > I on the other hand have written working embedded systems in C++ and > find it well suited for ANY programming purpose, as long as you under- > stand what is really happening inside the language and use the features > that are appropriate for your application. > > Programmers who like language X because they don't have to know what's > going on under the hood worry me, because that means they're trusting > the operation of their software to programmers they literally know > nothing about -- the compiler writers. And I've been at this FAR too > long to implicitly trust the compiler writers, no matter HOW good they > are. > > Poor craftsmen blame their tools, skilled craftsmen make the tools at > hand produce works of art. It's a *little* different, Wes. Let me put this proposition: not all tools are good for all folks. My comments about C++ applied strictly to me ... I said *I* didn't like it, and that I'd gone to the trouble of learning it so that I could feel honest about saying my opinion. That's not to say it's a "bad" tool; it's bad for me, and even for me, I can find one application where even I have to admit it works (graphics, GUI programming). For the rest, I was holding forth my opinions, and I hope I didn't voice absolutes. I think it's an extremely overcomplicated disaster for me, but it may be just the ticket for some folks, most especially those with great self restraint, those who restrict themselves to a limited subset of the language. Unlike most who don't like C++, I wouldn't take OO out of it, but I would ax templates and operator overloading. I'd add the inheritance ideas from Java, but remove multiple inheritance. I think the comment "less is more" is right on target; increasing complexity for the sake of complexity, which is what most C++ programs do, repels me. Folks use inheritance 'cause it's neat. They go looking for all the strangest implementation methods merely to use the features. Bleah. I keep hearing the comment that OO lets you visualize programming more "naturally". Please find me a single 4 year old that forms ideas on how to get things done (like dress himself) using an object oriented approach. OO is learned, it's NOT "natural". I like it if it's under heavy restraints, only. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 22:31: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78D214C83 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA05530; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:55:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:55:55 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nick Popoff Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP Question In-Reply-To: <000701bea278$cf79e500$0d42060a@rust.bloodletting.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Nick Popoff wrote: this should really be on smp@freebsd.org? > I'm exploring hardware setups for FreeBSD and I'm curious how SMP is > coming. What is the consensus on its stability at this point, and how > far is it from loosing its 'beta' classification? Also, anyone running > FreeBSD on a Xeon processor? I'm trying to figure out the best way to > max FreeBSD's performance, and what gives a good return for the money. > Any advice appreciated! My company deals almost entirely with dual PII freebsd servers, ram configurations vary from 256-1024 megabytes of ram. In the last month we haven't had any failures except for hardware/power issues. The machines perform admirably. My home box a dual 400 with 256 ram gets pummelled constantly with large software builds and remains stable as a rock. Just remember, ram is important, don't get a dual box with 128 ram or we'll laugh at you, go for a more heavyweight 512, or even 256 if it stresses your budget (ram is getting so damn cheap anyhow) good luck, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 19 22:32:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nightfly.apk.net (nightfly.apk.net [207.54.149.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9186415266 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rme@nightfly.apk.net) Received: (qmail 277 invoked by uid 1000); 20 May 1999 05:34:25 -0000 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: trivial patch for boot.c X-Attribution: rme From: rme@nightfly.apk.net (R. Matthew Emerson) Date: 20 May 1999 01:34:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87pv3wxq1q.fsf@nightfly.apk.net> Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had to reboot a few times today, and got bugged by the boot countdown timer telling me it was going to boot in 1 seconds. The change to src/sys/boot/common/boot.c is trivial, but I'm always impressed when a program gets these details right. -matt *** boot.c.orig Thu May 20 01:11:00 1999 --- boot.c Thu May 20 01:12:16 1999 *************** *** 203,209 **** break; } if (ntime != otime) { ! printf("\rBooting [%s] in %d seconds... ", getbootfile(0), (int)(when - ntime)); otime = ntime; cr = 1; } --- 203,209 ---- break; } if (ntime != otime) { ! printf("\rBooting [%s] in %d second%s... ", getbootfile(0), (int)(when - ntime), (when-ntime)==1?"":"s"); otime = ntime; cr = 1; } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 0:22:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web124.yahoomail.com (web124.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D03914FFF for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990520072334.17741.rocketmail@web124.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.217] by web124.yahoomail.com; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:23:34 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:23:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Lazy SPLs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm reading http://www.BSDI.COM/products/internet/40-qna.mhtml#Q5 and found the following peice of text: "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a hardware event actually occurs, avoiding many expensive operations." Does anyone know what this is? Also, maybe a related question, when turning on/off interrupts using the ICU, is it still necessary to flush the "out stream" by doing an out to a unused port? === Regards, Tommy Hallgren Briljantg. 31, SE-421 49, Göteborg Tel.: 031 - 770 5232 (Work: Telia Prosoft) Tel.: 0709 - 312 404 (GSM) Tel.: 031 - 47 65 28 (Home) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 1: 6:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E3C14EBD for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id JAA15407; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:05:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:02:33 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:02:31 +0000 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 5:08 pm -0500 19/5/99, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >[...] >I just downloaded it, and thought I'd share the fact with you - anyone >interested in the upcoming changes to ISO C may want to download it now as >well. >Get the text version as the pdf version appears corrupt. Text, PostScript and PDF are available at: http://anubis.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/docs/n869/ -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 4:41:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D48314CD3 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 04:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF951F5A; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:41:46 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Tommy Hallgren Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 00:23:34 MST." <19990520072334.17741.rocketmail@web124.yahoomail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:41:46 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <19990520114148.9EF951F5A@spinner.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tommy Hallgren wrote: > Hi! > > I'm reading http://www.BSDI.COM/products/internet/40-qna.mhtml#Q5 and found t he > following peice of text: > > "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a hardware eve nt > actually occurs, avoiding many expensive operations." > > Does anyone know what this is? Exactly what it says.. We've been doing it for as long as I can remember, at least as far back as 2.0.5, probably as far back as 1.x. What it means is that in a section of code like this: s = splbio(); foo(); splx(s); .. the hardware interrupt masks in the icu's are not changed unless an interrupt happens that should have been masked. The handler checks the mask and finds that it isn't allowed. The hardware is then masked for real and the interrupt handler returns without going further. When a lowering of the priority causes a previously deferred interrupt to become unmasked then it's handler will be executed. revision 1.7 date: 1994/04/02 07:00:50; author: davidg; state: Exp; lines: +94 -102 ^^^^^^^^^^ New interrupt code from Bruce Evans. [..] /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/icu.s: o Software interrupts (SWIs) and delayed hardware interrupts (HWIs) are now handled uniformally, and dispatching them from splx() is more like dispatching them from _doreti. The dispatcher is essentially *(handler[ffs(ipending & ~cpl)](). In fact, it even looks like rev 1.1 of these files had lazy spls: revision 1.1.1.1 date: 1993/06/12 14:58:01; author: rgrimes; state: Exp; lines: +0 -0 Initial import, 0.1 + pk 0.2.4-B1 .. that's even before FreeBSD 1.0. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 7:30:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.unacom.com (phoenix.unacom.com [206.113.48.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 59D5E14C06 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geniusj@phoenix.unacom.com) Received: (qmail 7430 invoked by uid 1000); 20 May 1999 04:39:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 May 1999 04:39:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:39:11 -0400 (EDT) From: The Tech-Admin Dude To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Dan Nelson , arikkert@surf.IAE.nl, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-Reply-To: <199905191444.QAA04469@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I could add another one, top(1) frequently does that on this machine.. so whatever answers you get, be sure to forward them to me :). On Wed, 19 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > These programs are mostly tin and lynx and such interactive programs. > ... > > "ee" and "pico" are two more. ee is particularly annoying since it > is one of the "supported" editors... > > luigi > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBN0OR8tGMB8VPlu8bEQL+BQCff4avQlzKP31XOIdO2tZ7zqz1840AoODY C8dkgIiGnfIBg+Nc/QHq+k1U =6Rxx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 8:25:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED65615068 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id AAA22074; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:24:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <374420A9.AE737D0E@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:48:09 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Babkin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Nordier Subject: Re: boot troubles in 3.1 References: <37435B3F.F7033E46@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey Babkin wrote: > > Hi! > > I have tried to install 3.1 on two machines but on both of > them I was not able to boot it after installation. The > 3.0-snapshot from May-98 worked fine on both of them. > But 3.1 did not boot. First, the MBR boot manager was not able to > boot any partition, nor FreeBSD nor UnixWare. After I replaced > it with boot manager from 3.0 it worked but then some later > stage of the boot was not able to find the kernel. Both > machines have Phoenix BIOS (one is Intel, another Unisys). > One has IDE disk, another has SCSI. I'm about to look at > the problem but want to make sure first that it's not a known > bug that was fixed long ago (sorry, I have not tracked > -hackers for about half a year). Any information will be > appreciated. 3.0 boot blocks won't boot 3.1 kernel, and since you didn't provide any information about the problem you had with 3.1 boot blocks, we can't help you at this point. I'm cc'ing Nordier, since the boot manager is his. Keep him cc'ed (or reply directly to him, I suppose) when you provide further details. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 9: 6:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nero.cybersites.com (nero.cybersites.com [207.92.123.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693ED15034 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from f8m7n1 (dhcp77.cybersites.com [207.92.123.77]) by nero.cybersites.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27925 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:12:27 -0400 Message-ID: <004401bea2da$7685c100$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> From: "Chuck Youse" To: Subject: Dumb IP alias confusion. Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:04:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't notice this until recently, but on our production web servers I use IP aliasing to host multiple sites on one box. Pretty normal stuff. Here's an ifconfig on one of these boxes: xl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 208.156.59.51 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 208.156.59.255 inet 208.156.59.10 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 208.156.59.255 ether 00:10:5a:e4:87:22 media: 100baseTX supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP xl1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 10.0.0.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255 ether 00:10:5a:e4:87:0d media: 100baseTX supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 Looks pretty good. The only problem is that connections from the local machine will only connect to the _first_ (or "real") IP address for an interface. A connection, for example, from this machine to 208.156.59.10 just hangs ... I'm assuming that I've simply forgotten some configuration step. This box is running 3.1-STABLE/May-9. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 9:13:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from horse.supranet.net (horse.supranet.net [205.164.160.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D55A15011 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gavinb@supranet.net) Received: from rat (rat.supranet.net [205.164.160.15]) by horse.supranet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21026; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:12:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990520110819.00d2a7a0@mail.supranet.net> X-Sender: gavinb@mail.supranet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:11:14 -0500 To: "Chuck Youse" From: Benjamin Gavin Subject: Re: Dumb IP alias confusion. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <004401bea2da$7685c100$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, You need to either set the netmask of the alias address to 255.255.255.255, or add a manual route statement: route add 127.1 That will do it. Then you will be able to get to the alias address from the aliased machine. On a side note: 1. Does anyone know how to get this same thing to work with natd?? i.e. is there a way for the natd box to see ports that it is redirecting as they would be seen from the outside world?? I am pretty sure that the Cisco PIX firewalls will do this, but I was wondering if it was possible with FreeBSD. Thanks, Ben Gavin At 12:04 PM 5/20/99 -0400, you wrote: >I didn't notice this until recently, but on our production web servers I use >IP aliasing to host multiple sites on one box. Pretty normal stuff. Here's >an ifconfig on one of these boxes: > >xl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > inet 208.156.59.51 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 208.156.59.255 > inet 208.156.59.10 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 208.156.59.255 > ether 00:10:5a:e4:87:22 > media: 100baseTX > supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX >ex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP >10baseT/UTP >xl1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > inet 10.0.0.3 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255 > ether 00:10:5a:e4:87:0d > media: 100baseTX > supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX >ex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP >10baseT/UTP >lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 > inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > >Looks pretty good. The only problem is that connections from the local >machine will only connect to the _first_ (or "real") IP address for an >interface. A connection, for example, from this machine to 208.156.59.10 >just hangs ... > >I'm assuming that I've simply forgotten some configuration step. This box >is running 3.1-STABLE/May-9. > >Chuck Youse >Director of Systems >cyouse@cybersites.com > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message /--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Benjamin Gavin - Senior Consultant *********** NO SPAM!! ************ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 9:47:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from november.jaded.net (november.jaded.net [209.90.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04E914D27 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@november.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by november.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3+trinsec_nospam) id MAA94401 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:54:21 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Database holywars? Message-ID: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I've taken up a project that will rely very heavily on remote database access. Naturally, the choice as to which database engine to use is a crucial one. I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. Suggestions and comments? Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 9:51:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E414F14D27 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA75010; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > > Greetings, > > I've taken up a project that will rely very heavily on remote database > access. Naturally, the choice as to which database engine to use is a > crucial one. > > I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for > the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows > to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between > MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. > > Suggestions and comments? What's more important, flexibility to make changes, or speed? Anything that implements sql has to be far slower, but if you make many changes, you're going to heavily regret choosing a set of C language functions as the base of your DB. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10: 0:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ninsei.com (24.64.11.127.ab.wave.home.com [24.64.11.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A3B7314D27 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dreamer@freelow.ninsei.com) Received: (qmail 19140 invoked by uid 1001); 20 May 1999 17:00:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 May 1999 17:00:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:00:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Steven Young To: Andre Rikkert de Koe Cc: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: timeconsuming processes on FreeBSD 3.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, Andre Rikkert de Koe wrote: > We are an ISP and we recently installed FreeBSD 3.1 on our main > logonserver. Since than almost every day we find timeconsuming processes > running while the user isn't even logged in (anymore). These programs are I believe the easiest solution to this problem is to install idled - it will (I gather) kill off processes owned by users no longer logged in, etc. Also a good way to prevent them running those infernal bots that are the bane of system administrators everywhere. Steve. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10: 2:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from november.jaded.net (november.jaded.net [209.90.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E5D14D27 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@november.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by november.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3+trinsec_nospam) id NAA94548; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:08:58 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? Message-ID: <19990520130858.A94463@trinsec.com> References: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, May 20, 1999 at 12:51:26PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | > I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for | > the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows | > to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between | > MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. | > | > Suggestions and comments? | | What's more important, flexibility to make changes, or speed? Anything | that implements sql has to be far slower, but if you make many changes, | you're going to heavily regret choosing a set of C language functions | as the base of your DB. I think a proper equilibrium between the two would be most desirable, but, if I had to choose one over the other it would definately be speed. The actual structure of the database isn't going to change much, if at all, I would imagine. Assuming it changes once a year, writing a conversion program to read in the old structure and write out the new one doesn't seem quite so horrendous. On the other hand, its a lot more annoying than a simple ALTER .. ADD statement. :-) Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10: 5:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8497515924 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: from whistle.com (crab.whistle.com [207.76.205.112]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA89578; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14517; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199905201701.KAA14517@whistle.com> Subject: Re: netbooting a freebsd kernel with 3c905B (fwd) In-Reply-To: <80256775.004D5380.00@mail.plasmon.co.uk> from "amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk" at "May 18, 99 03:04:35 pm" To: amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: smaraux@cpc.westminster.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk writes: | Doug Ambrisko came up with some patches, you can find an early version | attached to PR 9480, there may be more recent versions around now. I need to update it to the latest version. Another one just came out and I see some more 905b bugs fixes are in. However, I won't be able to get to it until mid next week if things go well. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10: 8:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD70D14C23 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10kWIY-000973-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:07:58 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: REQ: Review inetd internal wrapping fix Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:07:58 +0200 Message-ID: <35032.927220078@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I'm looking for feedback on the fix that is attached to PR 11651, which I believe fixes wrapping for inetd's internal services. I found the code quite intense, so I'm not entirely convinced that my approach is sound. Thanks, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10:31:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E7DEB14D96 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09049 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:19:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:19:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anyone tell me what does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? I can not find it in the hypertext manual pages. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10:46: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E714214C15 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA75166; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520130858.A94463@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > > | > I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for > | > the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows > | > to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between > | > MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. > | > > | > Suggestions and comments? > | > | What's more important, flexibility to make changes, or speed? Anything > | that implements sql has to be far slower, but if you make many changes, > | you're going to heavily regret choosing a set of C language functions > | as the base of your DB. > > I think a proper equilibrium between the two would be most desirable, but, if > I had to choose one over the other it would definately be speed. The actual > structure of the database isn't going to change much, if at all, I would > imagine. Assuming it changes once a year, writing a conversion program > to read in the old structure and write out the new one doesn't seem quite so > horrendous. On the other hand, its a lot more annoying than a simple > ALTER .. ADD statement. :-) It's one step more complicated than that. Moving an sql database from a free implementation to a commercial implementation, while not perfect, isn't all that terrible a thing to do. Moving it from a C language implementation to sql is going to be harsh, because it's a working database, so you can't afford any bugs. The DB implementation is going to be at least an order of magnitude faster (depending on the sql database, maybe 2 orders), but if it's a money oriented thing, do it via sql, not C. If it's machine control thing, often C is better. I have a personal prejudice I'm trying hard to mask, in favor of C language implementations, you should know that while you read this. Notice your client is going to matter vary much here. As an example, if you tell a stockbroker that you've saved him a huge amount of money at an added .0000001% risk, that stockbroker will fire you, because they don't care about money, they want to have it work, and they don't want to hear about details. Save him *time*, however, and you can count on a huge bonus! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 10:48:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haddock.euitt.upm.es (haddock.euitt.upm.es [138.100.52.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F8114C15 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pjlobo@euitt.upm.es) Received: from localhost (pjlobo@localhost) by haddock.euitt.upm.es (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04828; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:39:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:39:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Pedro J. Lobo" To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > >Greetings, > >I've taken up a project that will rely very heavily on remote database >access. Naturally, the choice as to which database engine to use is a >crucial one. > >I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for >the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows >to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between >MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. > >Suggestions and comments? ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pedro José Lobo Perea Tel: +34 91 336 78 19 Centro de Cálculo Fax: +34 91 331 92 29 E.U.I.T. Telecomunicación e-mail: pjlobo@euitt.upm.es Universidad Politécnica de Madrid Ctra. de Valencia, Km. 7 E-28031 Madrid - España / Spain To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 11: 8:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139BD15238 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA75217; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:04:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Pedro J. Lobo" Cc: Dan Moschuk , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Pedro J. Lobo wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > > > > >Greetings, > > > >I've taken up a project that will rely very heavily on remote database > >access. Naturally, the choice as to which database engine to use is a > >crucial one. > > > >I'd like to stay away from the commercial database suites (i.e. Oracle) for > >the time being, however I will eventually move to it once the database grows > >to over 100M records. In the meantime however, I'm debating heavily between > >MySQL and Berkeley DB with a multi-threaded socket frontend. > > > >Suggestions and comments? > > ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a > heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial > support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it > adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot > its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using > it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database > for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with > it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. And it has Java bindings (JDBC). I found Java makes *great* front ends. Postgresql + Java are a fine mixture. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 11:39:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from november.jaded.net (november.jaded.net [209.90.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD2B14CC0 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@november.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by november.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3+trinsec_nospam) id OAA95426; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:42:15 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: "Pedro J. Lobo" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? Message-ID: <19990520144215.E94835@trinsec.com> References: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Pedro J. Lobo on Thu, May 20, 1999 at 07:39:02PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a | heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial | support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it | adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot | its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using | it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database | for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with | it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. If I recall correctly, isn't postgresql *based* off of the Berkeley DB engine? -Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 11:42:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291D614CC0; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from muir-10 (roger@muir-10.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.148.10]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06980 Thu, 20 May 1999 19:42:04 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3744577E.167E@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:42:06 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: University of Strathclyde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: error 6: panic : cannot mount root(2) with PicoBSD current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Help I'm trying to get the PicoBSD code on -current compiling again as it has got a bit stale. But I get a kernel Panic. I brought the kernel config files up to date. Booting with the 'dial' disk (build without ssh) panics with error 6: panic: cannot mount root (2) This comes just ater the sio and ie0 probes. I wonder if it has anything to do with the old entry config kernel root on wd0 which the new config program ignores. Any suggestions? Bye Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 11:48:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A0814CC0 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA75315; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Dan Moschuk Cc: "Pedro J. Lobo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520144215.E94835@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > > | ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a > | heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial > | support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it > | adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot > | its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using > | it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database > | for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with > | it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. > > If I recall correctly, isn't postgresql *based* off of the Berkeley DB > engine? I don't know, but it's irrelevant. The point is, do you use an intervening compatibility layer (sql) for your database, or not. There has to be a low level layer, but if postgresql uses any particular one isn't of any importance here, you understand? It's just figuring the costs, on the one hand, what you gain in speed, on the other hand, what you give up in reconfigurability and portability. You won't find the commercial db having a Berkeley DB interface. If you want that final move to be as painless and bug free as you can make it (if that's of real importance, and you just can't keep the db in C and move it as C code) then you're going to want sql. There isn't any one right answer here. Note your requirements, and see which method meets your goals closest. If you want to argue this further, we should take it offline, it's ceased to be interesting to the list at large. > > -Dan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 11:50: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4119150CB for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA50664; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905201849.LAA50664@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dan Moschuk Cc: "Pedro J. Lobo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? References: <19990520125421.A94348@trinsec.com> <19990520144215.E94835@trinsec.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :| ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a :| heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial :| support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it :| adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot :| its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using :| it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database :| for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with :| it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. : :If I recall correctly, isn't postgresql *based* off of the Berkeley DB :engine? : :-Dan No, Berkeley DB doesn't have much to do with anything. Postgres or MySql are both good choices. Postgres has many more features but is also much bulkier. MySql is slim and fast, but not feature-rich enough to handle realtime operations on complex or large datasets. If the original poster intends to ultimately upgrade to a commercial database, I would probably use Postgres rather then MySql. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:21:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from valis.worldgate.com (valis.worldgate.com [198.161.84.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2891544E for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by valis.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22892 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA14248 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:21:10 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PNP Soundcards w/ diskless booting. Message-ID: <19990520132110.G5554@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm using /usr/ports/net/etherboot, to boot diskless workstations. Everything is working quite well. Now some of the stations need sound, and there are an abundancy of pnp soundcards that workfine, but with the network boot I'm immediately in the kernel, no cli to config the PNP. Now if I include the INTRO_USERCONFIG, of course I get the cli but because /boot doesn't exist I can't save the info, and adds un-neccesary complication to machines that doen't need it. Any thoughts....... -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:24:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C5A15476 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24600; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:25:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:25:45 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Peter Wemm Cc: Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs In-Reply-To: <19990520114148.9EF951F5A@spinner.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > Tommy Hallgren wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I'm reading http://www.BSDI.COM/products/internet/40-qna.mhtml#Q5 and found t > he > > following peice of text: > > > > "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a hardware eve > nt > > actually occurs, avoiding many expensive operations." > > > > Does anyone know what this is? > > Exactly what it says.. We've been doing it for as long as I can remember, > at least as far back as 2.0.5, probably as far back as 1.x. My earliest memory of it was as "Bruce's new interrupt code" for 386bsd. It was part of the 386bsd patchkit I think. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:28:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9803915439 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00490; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905201925.MAA00490@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Skafte Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PNP Soundcards w/ diskless booting. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 13:21:10 MDT." <19990520132110.G5554@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:25:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm using /usr/ports/net/etherboot, to boot diskless workstations. > Everything is working quite well. > > Now some of the stations need sound, and there are an abundancy of pnp > soundcards that workfine, but with the network boot I'm immediately in the > kernel, no cli to config the PNP. > > Now if I include the INTRO_USERCONFIG, of course I get the cli but because > /boot doesn't exist I can't save the info, and adds un-neccesary complication > to machines that doen't need it. > > > Any thoughts....... Help us write network drivers for the loader. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:38:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from datacompusa.com (tnt2-27-76.iserv.net [204.157.27.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1208315439; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (msb.datacompusa.com [192.168.1.100]) by datacompusa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29445; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:37:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Message-Id: <199905201937.PAA29445@datacompusa.com> Subject: Cyclom Ye panics 3.1's SMP kernel Date: Thu, 20 May 99 15:38:45 -0400 x-sender: msb@datacompusa.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: msb To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cyclades Cyclom-Ye panics with 3.1's SMP Sent: 5/20/99 3:33 PM To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.com freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com SUMMARY: My cyclades cyclom-Ye panics the kernel when I am running with release-3.1's smp options. Turning off SMP allows the card to work fine. Unplugging the SM-II pod also allows normal operation of the machine in SMP mode (of course then there are no serial ports to access). If anyone has suggestions, advice, or sympathy to offer it will be welcomed. DETAILS: occurs when a serial port on the cyclom board first accessed panic message = Panic: rslock: cpu 0: addr: 0xf026a3ec, lock 0x00000001 mp_lock = 00000001: cpuid = 0: lapic.id = 00000000 stack trace = #10 bsl1 () #11 cyopen (dev=12416, flag=5, mode=8192, p=0xf8ceae60) at ../../i386/isa/cy.c:755 further tracing has revealed that the panic actually occures in the commctl function in cy.c likely when a call is made to disable_intr() at line #2453. hardware = Tyan S1832DL Tiger 100 with dual Pentium II 350's 256 MB RAM, 18 GB IDE drive other: happens with both the isa and pci version of the card. -- Michael Scott Boers Datacomp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:42:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8CA1567A for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA66435; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA07094; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905201941.NAA07094@harmony.village.org> To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) Cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 18:01:51 CDT." <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:41:37 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: : And the MS book was outright lying (gee, surprise): It claimed that : one of the biggest advantages of C++ over C is that if you change : the C++ class, you need not recompile the code using it. What a : piece of bunk. In C++ the caller allocates the memory called by the : class. Some SGI compilers get around this somehow. They are really much nicer to work with than the cfront based compilers and their descendants. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 12:44: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7529A156D2 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA66446; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:42:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA07126; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905201942.NAA07126@harmony.village.org> To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) Cc: Andy Doran , Chuck Robey , "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 19:54:01 EDT." <199905192354.TAA17959@whizzo.transsys.com> References: <199905192354.TAA17959@whizzo.transsys.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:42:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199905192354.TAA17959@whizzo.transsys.com> "Louis A. Mamakos" writes: : Truly and example of the "less is more" concept in action. I've done : some non-trivial development in Objective-C, and I can assure you that : I haven't missed C++'s operator overloading. That's one failing of C++. It is hard to know which of the many tools in your toolbox are right to use. Inexperienced C++ coders and designers tend to use them all, because they can. Not because they are needed. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 14:18:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7FF1587B; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA05350; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:33:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905202133.HAA05350@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: error 6: panic : cannot mount root(2) with PicoBSD current In-Reply-To: <3744577E.167E@cs.strath.ac.uk> from Roger Hardiman at "May 20, 1999 7:42: 6 pm" To: roger@cs.strath.ac.uk (Roger Hardiman) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:33:02 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Roger Hardiman wrote: > Help > > I'm trying to get the PicoBSD code on -current compiling again > as it has got a bit stale. But I get a kernel Panic. > > > I brought the kernel config files up to date. Booting > with the 'dial' disk (build without ssh) panics with > > error 6: panic: cannot mount root (2) > > This comes just ater the sio and ie0 probes. > > I wonder if it has anything to do with the old entry > config kernel root on wd0 > > which the new config program ignores. In a kernel with only mfs, MFS_ROOT means _no_ rootdev. This breakage was caused by phk when he changed src/sys/kern/vfs_conf.c for his "jail" implementation. The problem is that with MFS_ROOT, the cpu_rootconf() function in src/i386/i386/autoconf.c correctly chooses mfs, but doesn't set the global rootdev variable that phk's code requires. I've reported this problem to current (got no response) and to phk (with a patch which he responded to with "what am I missing?"). Here is the patch I sent (cut'n'pasted from my copy of the email. so tabs are smashed). NB: I have an axe too. Mine is an Oz version though, so if I turn it over, it works like a hammer. I'll use it on Sunday (23rd) and commit this patch if nobody fixes the MFS_ROOT problem before then. Index: vfs_conf.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_conf.c,v retrieving revision 1.26 diff -c -r1.26 vfs_conf.c *** vfs_conf.c 1998/09/14 19:56:40 1.26 --- vfs_conf.c 1999/05/11 09:53:33 *************** *** 52,57 **** --- 52,58 ---- * on SMP reentrancy */ #include "opt_bootp.h" + #include "opt_mfs.h" #include /* dev_t (types.h)*/ #include *************** *** 136,141 **** --- 137,145 ---- /* * Attempt the mount */ + #ifdef MFS_ROOT + err = VFS_MOUNT(mp, NULL, NULL, NULL, p); + #else err = ENXIO; orootdev = rootdev; if (rootdevs[0] == NODEV) *************** *** 154,159 **** --- 158,164 ---- if (err != ENXIO) break; } + #endif if (err) { /* * XXX should ask the user for the name in some cases. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 15:26:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC5F153AB for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:26:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA26277 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:26:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id E37EE87AE; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:45:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:45:22 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? Message-ID: <19990520234522.A17041@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Zhihui Zhang on Thu, May 20, 1999 at 01:19:58PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5322 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Zhihui Zhang: > Can anyone tell me what does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? I can not find it in the > hypertext manual pages. You can find a small documentation in the 4.4BSD daemon book. It is used when stacking filesystems (especially unionfs). Imagine you have 2 FS mounted on above the other with unionfs. This gives you FS1. Note that when stacking FS, the underlying ones are R/O (FS2 in this case). FS "file A" it appears here. 1 --------------------- FS ---> file A the real file 2 File A is seen as part of the whole unified FS1. Now, imagine you "rm" file A from FS1. The file won't be actually removed from FS2 but a "whiteout" entry will appear inside FS1 to "mask" the file from it. More (and better) explanations on page 236 of the new daemon book. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 15:45:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nero.cybersites.com (nero.cybersites.com [207.92.123.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E0B154AA for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from f8m7n1 (dhcp77.cybersites.com [207.92.123.77]) by nero.cybersites.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA06950; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:51:18 -0400 Message-ID: <002601bea312$29fae580$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> From: "Chuck Youse" To: "Ollivier Robert" , Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:43:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG New daemon book? I must have missed that. Do you have the full title? Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 5:32 PM Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? >According to Zhihui Zhang: >> Can anyone tell me what does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? I can not find it in the >> hypertext manual pages. > >You can find a small documentation in the 4.4BSD daemon book. It is used when >stacking filesystems (especially unionfs). > >Imagine you have 2 FS mounted on above the other with unionfs. This gives you >FS1. Note that when stacking FS, the underlying ones are R/O (FS2 in this >case). > >FS "file A" it appears here. > 1 >--------------------- >FS ---> file A the real file > 2 > >File A is seen as part of the whole unified FS1. Now, imagine you "rm" file A >from FS1. The file won't be actually removed from FS2 but a "whiteout" entry >will appear inside FS1 to "mask" the file from it. > >More (and better) explanations on page 236 of the new daemon book. >-- >Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr >FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 16: 5: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nightfly.apk.net (nightfly.apk.net [207.54.149.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4772614C86 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rme@nightfly.apk.net) Received: (qmail 1766 invoked by uid 1000); 20 May 1999 23:07:07 -0000 To: "Chuck Youse" Cc: Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? References: <002601bea312$29fae580$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> X-Attribution: rme From: rme@nightfly.apk.net (R. Matthew Emerson) Date: 20 May 1999 19:07:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: "Chuck Youse"'s message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 18:43:21 -0400" Message-ID: <87so8rbasl.fsf@nightfly.apk.net> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Chuck Youse" writes: > New daemon book? > I must have missed that. Do you have the full title? McKusick, Bostic, Karels, and Quarterman, The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System, Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1996. ISBN 0-201-54979-4 -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 16: 9:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nero.cybersites.com (nero.cybersites.com [207.92.123.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE61C15483 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:09:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from f8m7n1 (dhcp77.cybersites.com [207.92.123.77]) by nero.cybersites.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07640; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:14:35 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01bea315$6a820860$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> From: "Chuck Youse" To: "R. Matthew Emerson" Cc: Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:06:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh, nevermind. I must have misinterpreted the previous post. I thought that a _newer_ book had arrived. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: R. Matthew Emerson To: Chuck Youse Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 6:11 PM Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do? >"Chuck Youse" writes: > >> New daemon book? >> I must have missed that. Do you have the full title? > >McKusick, Bostic, Karels, and Quarterman, The Design and Implementation >of the 4.4BSD Operating System, Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1996. > >ISBN 0-201-54979-4 > >-matt > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 16:39:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5D8C14E6C for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 29244 invoked from network); 20 May 1999 23:11:03 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 20 May 1999 23:11:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-3.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA36123; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:11:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-3.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:11:01 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Reply-To: David Scheidt To: "R. Matthew Emerson" Cc: Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do?: In-Reply-To: <87so8rbasl.fsf@nightfly.apk.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 May 1999, R. Matthew Emerson wrote: :"Chuck Youse" writes: :> New daemon book? :> I must have missed that. Do you have the full title? :McKusick, Bostic, Karels, and Quarterman, The Design and Implementation :of the 4.4BSD Operating System, Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1996. :ISBN 0-201-54979-4 Not exactly "new". David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 17:17: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from valis.worldgate.com (valis.worldgate.com [198.161.84.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D37814FBB for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by valis.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA12824 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA16102 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:17:01 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PNP Soundcards w/ diskless booting. Message-ID: <19990520181700.J5554@gras-varg.worldgate.com> References: <19990520132110.G5554@gras-varg.worldgate.com> <19990521013508.Q76043@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990521013508.Q76043@bitbox.follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:35:08AM +0200 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG this has got it .... THANKS .... Quoting Eivind Eklund (eivind@FreeBSD.org) On Subject: Re: PNP Soundcards w/ diskless booting. Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:35:08AM +0200 > On Thu, May 20, 1999 at 01:21:10PM -0600, Greg Skafte wrote: > > I'm using /usr/ports/net/etherboot, to boot diskless workstations. > > Everything is working quite well. > > > > Now some of the stations need sound, and there are an abundancy of pnp > > soundcards that workfine, but with the network boot I'm immediately in the > > kernel, no cli to config the PNP. > > > > Now if I include the INTRO_USERCONFIG, of course I get the cli but because > > /boot doesn't exist I can't save the info, and adds un-neccesary complication > > to machines that doen't need it. > > > > > > Any thoughts....... > > If the BIOS supports PnP: Put the PCs in question in working mode. > The switch for non-working mode is usually labelled 'PnP OS', and > setting it to 'YES' will make the BIOS not work, while setting it to > 'NO' will make the BIOS work correctly (and your sound card work > without any mess). > > Don't ask me why they include a crappy labelled do-not-work button - > it is probably a result of lacking clue, as so much else in this > world. > > Eivind. -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 17:18:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-96.camalott.com [208.229.74.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D1015335 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA76924; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:17:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) To: Doug Rabson Cc: Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 20 May 1999 19:17:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: Doug Rabson's message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 20:25:45 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: <86wvy3wa1l.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a >>> hardware event actually occurs, avoiding many expensive >>> operations." >> We've been doing it for as long as I can remember, at least as far >> back as 2.0.5, probably as far back as 1.x. > My earliest memory of it was as "Bruce's new interrupt code" for 386bsd. > It was part of the 386bsd patchkit I think. Why mask out the interrupts at all, instead of queuing them in handler level? joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 17:26:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB7214E6C for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01979; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905210015.RAA01979@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs In-reply-to: Your message of "20 May 1999 19:17:42 CDT." <86wvy3wa1l.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:15:51 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>> "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a > >>> hardware event actually occurs, avoiding many expensive > >>> operations." > >> We've been doing it for as long as I can remember, at least as far > >> back as 2.0.5, probably as far back as 1.x. > > My earliest memory of it was as "Bruce's new interrupt code" for 386bsd. > > It was part of the 386bsd patchkit I think. > > Why mask out the interrupts at all, instead of queuing them in handler > level? Level-triggered interrupts are persistent conditions, not queueable events. They typically require device-driver level intervention to be cleared. This is a major error in the PCI design (no surprises there). -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 17:29:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D5C14BB8 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00349 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:17:30 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:30:14 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA2F7.2F422B40.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolnyy Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Lazy SPLs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:30:13 -0500 Organization: Ashley Laurent, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, May 20, 1999 7:18 PM, Joel Ray Holveck [SMTP:joelh@gnu.org] wrote: > >>> "Lazy SPLs - The kernel no longer masks hardware events unless a > >>> hardware event actually occurs, avoiding many expensive > >>> operations." > >> We've been doing it for as long as I can remember, at least as far > >> back as 2.0.5, probably as far back as 1.x. > > My earliest memory of it was as "Bruce's new interrupt code" for 386bsd. > > > > It was part of the 386bsd patchkit I think. > > Why mask out the interrupts at all, instead of queuing them in handler > level? Because only the device's driver knows how to stop the device from interrupting again and again, but calling its handler is prohibited. Lazy SPLs is an optimization. Drivers play with SPLs very often, so it would be unefficient to program the interrupt controller each time when somebody wants to increment a counter. However, if the device has indeed interrupted, there is no choice left except disabling it in the interrupt controller. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 17:30: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC5814BB8 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA03932 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Humour: Microsoft Announces Improved "Blue Screen of Death" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Newswire 5/12/99 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Announces Improved BSOD In a surprise announcement today, Microsoft President Steve Ballmer revealed that the Redmond based company will allow computer resellers and end-users to customize the appearance of the Blue Screen of Death (abbreviated BSOD), the screen that displays when the Windows operating system crashes. The move comes as the result of numerous focus groups and customer surveys done by Microsoft. Thousands of Microsoft customers were asked, "What do you spend the most time doing on your computer?" A surprising number of respondents said, "Staring at a Blue Screen of Death". At 54 percent, it was the top answer, beating the second place answer "Downloading Pornography" by an easy 12 points. "We immediately recognized this as a great opportunity for ourselves, our channel partners, and especially our customers." explained the excited Ballmer to a room full of reporters. Immense video displays were used to show images of the new customizable BSOD screen side-by-side with the older static version. Users can select from a collection of "BSOD Themes", allowing them to instead have a Mauve Screen of Death or even a Paisley Screen of Death. Graphics and multimedia content can now be incorporated into the screen, making the BSOD the perfect conduit for delivering product information and entertainment to Windows users. The Blue Screen of Death is by far the most recognized feature of the Windows (tm) operating system, and as a result, Microsoft has historically insisted on total control over its look-and-feel. This recent departure from that policy reflects Microsoft's recognition of the Windows desktop itself as the "ultimate information portal." By default, the new BSOD will be configured to show a random selection of Microsoft product information whenever the system crashes. Microsoft channel partners can negotiate with Microsoft for the right to customize the BSOD on systems they ship. Major computer resellers such as Compaq, Gateway, and Dell are already lining up for premier placement on the new and improved BSOD. Balmer concluded by getting a dig in against the Open Source community. "This just goes to show that Microsoft continues to innovate at a much faster pace than open source. I have yet to see any evidence that Linux or OpenBSD even have a BSOD, let alone a customizable one." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 21:36:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r29.bfm.org [208.18.213.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1F414C09 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA00311; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:36:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:36:02 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) Message-ID: <19990520233602.G255@whizkidtech.net> References: <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> <19990519170823.A240@whizkidtech.net> <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> <199905201941.NAA07094@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199905201941.NAA07094@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Thu, May 20, 1999 at 01:41:37PM -0600 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 20, 1999 at 01:41:37PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > : And the MS book was outright lying (gee, surprise): It claimed that > : one of the biggest advantages of C++ over C is that if you change > : the C++ class, you need not recompile the code using it. What a > : piece of bunk. In C++ the caller allocates the memory called by the > : class. > > Some SGI compilers get around this somehow. They are really much > nicer to work with than the cfront based compilers and their > descendants. I'm glad to hear that. That would make the code much more robust. I was only exposed to MS VC++, and I am very glad I always examine the assembly language output of anything I write in a high-level language! It was a mess. Of course, everything from MS is.... Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 22:10:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5645814C9B for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA21725; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA42968; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905210510.WAA42968@vashon.polstra.com> To: damian@cablenet.net Subject: Re: dlopen failure In-Reply-To: <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net>, Damian Hamill wrote: > I have a program that is dumping core. > > ----------------------------------------------- > Here's the gdb output; > > Program terminated with signal 6, Abort trap. > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > (gdb) bt > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > #1 0x800b34c in abort () > #2 0x8004aa2 in __assert () > #3 0x8003b4b in map_object () > #4 0x8002e9e in find_symdef () > #5 0x800334d in dlopen () > #6 0x8049a68 in Get_SQL_Driver (name=0x804c7e4 "mysql") at Vdb.c:150 > #7 0x8049ff9 in GetDefaultDriver () at Vdb.c:254 > #8 0x804a141 in VdbInit (user=0x804bfb1 "nobody", passwd=0x0) at > Vdb.c:329 > #9 0x8049316 in main () > #10 0x8048be5 in _start () I don't know what's going on here, but this stack trace can't be right. dlopen doesn't call find_symdef, and find_symdef doesn't call map_object. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 20 23:52: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Wit401305.student.utwente.nl (wit401305.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808CF14DFD for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl) Received: from localhost (daeron@localhost) by Wit401305.student.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA19304 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:51:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:51:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Pascal Hofstee To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pthread_cancel ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am currently having the author of the SDL-library on my box trying to cook up a port of the SDL-library for FreeBSD. SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer) is the library used by Loki Software to build CIV:CTP As I have seen now the entire library works perfectly ;-) except for one thing .... FreeBSD's pthread-implementation (libc_r) doesn't seem to have the pthread_cancel method(s) implemented .. which make the threaded part of the library mallfunction ... My question is if there is any likely support considdered on adding those additional function calls to FreeBSD's PTHREAD implementation ? -------------------- Pascal Hofstee - daeron@shadowmere.student.utwente.nl -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s+: a-- C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W- N+ o? K- w--- O? M V? PS+ PE Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X-- R tv+ b+ DI D- G e* h+ r- y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 0:13:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6568E1586F for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:13:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip90.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.90]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC8E3707E; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08750; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:13:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:13:39 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Roger Hardiman Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-RELEASE and netscape problem. Message-ID: <19990521021339.I2129@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <7894.926981406@zippy.cdrom.com> <3740FBF0.226D3550@cs.strath.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: <3740FBF0.226D3550@cs.strath.ac.uk>; from Roger Hardiman on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 06:34:40AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 18, 1999, Roger Hardiman wrote: > I suppose the problems will be in Netscape and my XiGs Accel X 4.1. Running a 4.0-CURRENT system always updated via CVSup (never used snapshots), I can testify that the best way of keeping aout compatibility is really just compiling world with -DWANT_AOUT. I haven't done that in ages, but my system currently works fine with both AX4 for FreeBSD (aout binary) and Netscape 4.6 for Linux. -- Chris Costello Remember the good old days, when CPU was singular? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 1: 9:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BFC14D61 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:09:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:12:18 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179612@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Mike Smith' , Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Lazy SPLs Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:07:24 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 2:16 AM > To: Joel Ray Holveck > Cc: Doug Rabson; Peter Wemm; Tommy Hallgren; > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs > > > > > Why mask out the interrupts at all, instead of queuing them in > handler > > level? > > Level-triggered interrupts are persistent conditions, not queueable > events. They typically require device-driver level intervention to be > > cleared. This is a major error in the PCI design (no surprises > there). > [ML] Whoa there! That's the MAJOR advantage of PCI design. Open collector, active low, level triggered interrupts are the only possibility for interupt line sharing without programmatically accessible registers on card which say "yes, I am still interrupting". Active high, edge triggered interrupts are an abomination (there is no way to reliably share the interrupt line and you cannot even wire or it). They are the reason why one never has enough interrupt lines on ISA. > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 1:24:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE96E14D61 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA68882; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:24:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:24:32 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Ladavac Marino Cc: "'Mike Smith'" , Joel Ray Holveck , Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Lazy SPLs In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179612@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Ladavac Marino wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 2:16 AM > > To: Joel Ray Holveck > > Cc: Doug Rabson; Peter Wemm; Tommy Hallgren; > > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs > > > > > > > > Why mask out the interrupts at all, instead of queuing them in > > handler > > > level? > > > > Level-triggered interrupts are persistent conditions, not queueable > > events. They typically require device-driver level intervention to be > > > > cleared. This is a major error in the PCI design (no surprises > > there). > > > [ML] Whoa there! That's the MAJOR advantage of PCI design. > Open collector, active low, level triggered interrupts are the only > possibility for interupt line sharing without programmatically > accessible registers on card which say "yes, I am still interrupting". > > Active high, edge triggered interrupts are an abomination (there > is no way to reliably share the interrupt line and you cannot even wire > or it). They are the reason why one never has enough interrupt lines on > ISA. Interrupt sharing sucks. The processor should have more interrupt inputs. Modern alpha systems typically have as many interrupt inputs as there are pci slots * interrupt pins. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 1:28:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C7514D61 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA70028; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:30:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:30:00 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: John Polstra Cc: damian@cablenet.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dlopen failure In-Reply-To: <199905210510.WAA42968@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, John Polstra wrote: > In article <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net>, > Damian Hamill wrote: > > I have a program that is dumping core. > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Here's the gdb output; > > > > Program terminated with signal 6, Abort trap. > > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > > (gdb) bt > > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > > #1 0x800b34c in abort () > > #2 0x8004aa2 in __assert () > > #3 0x8003b4b in map_object () > > #4 0x8002e9e in find_symdef () > > #5 0x800334d in dlopen () > > #6 0x8049a68 in Get_SQL_Driver (name=0x804c7e4 "mysql") at Vdb.c:150 > > #7 0x8049ff9 in GetDefaultDriver () at Vdb.c:254 > > #8 0x804a141 in VdbInit (user=0x804bfb1 "nobody", passwd=0x0) at > > Vdb.c:329 > > #9 0x8049316 in main () > > #10 0x8048be5 in _start () > > I don't know what's going on here, but this stack trace can't be > right. dlopen doesn't call find_symdef, and find_symdef doesn't > call map_object. Isn't map_object() part of the a.out rtld? -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 1:50:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D96014D61 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:50:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA78789; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:50:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SA_{SPACE,REWIND,ERASE}_TIMEOUT From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 May 1999 10:50:39 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I want to convert these kernel options to sysctl variables. Where should they be inserted into the tree? I was thinking of creating a new 'cam' top-level category and put them there: cam.sa.space_timeout cam.sa.rewind_timeout cam.sa.erase_timeout DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 1:55:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haddock.euitt.upm.es (haddock.euitt.upm.es [138.100.52.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C753F14D61 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pjlobo@euitt.upm.es) Received: from localhost (pjlobo@localhost) by haddock.euitt.upm.es (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02410; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:54:40 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Pedro J. Lobo" To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520144215.E94835@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: > >| ¿Have you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and is a >| heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial >| support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it >| adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot >| its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are using >| it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database >| for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with >| it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. > >If I recall correctly, isn't postgresql *based* off of the Berkeley DB >engine? No. PostgreSQL is an evolution of Prof. Stonebraker's Postgres project, which was derived from Ingres. I find it truly comparable to Oracle, Sybase, Informix, etc. It may be slower, but offers most of the functionality of the big guys. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pedro José Lobo Perea Tel: +34 91 336 78 19 Centro de Cálculo Fax: +34 91 331 92 29 E.U.I.T. Telecomunicación e-mail: pjlobo@euitt.upm.es Universidad Politécnica de Madrid Ctra. de Valencia, Km. 7 E-28031 Madrid - España / Spain To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 2:43:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A679815237; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:41:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id MAA40361; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:41:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:41:13 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: rnordier@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Why we need two distinct MBRs in the sources? Message-ID: <19990521124113.B10590@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: rnordier@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Apparently, we have two distinct MBRs in the sources. First one is in /usr/src/sbin/i386/fdisk.c, and could be installed onto disk by ``fdisk -b'', for example. The second one is in /usr/src/release/sysinstall/wizard.c, and could be installed onto disk by ``sysinstall''. It is confusing... Could it be possible to unite these ones in /src/sys/boot/i386/mbr/ ? Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 2:50: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3400158F7; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA44124; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: rnordier@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we need two distinct MBRs in the sources? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 12:41:13 +0300." <19990521124113.B10590@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <44120.927280174@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 1> Could it be possible to unite these ones in /src/sys/boot/i386/mbr/ ? It could be possible, yes. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 3: 6:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D42158F7; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id NAA46178; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:04:32 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:04:31 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: rnordier@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why we need two distinct MBRs in the sources? Message-ID: <19990521130431.A44845@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , rnordier@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990521124113.B10590@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <44120.927280174@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <44120.927280174@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:49:34AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:49:34AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > 1> Could it be possible to unite these ones in /src/sys/boot/i386/mbr/ ? > > It could be possible, yes. :) > > - Jordan Well, probably my English is not so good, I'm sorry. What's so funny? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 3: 7:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5443E158F7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10kmDA-000ADF-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:07:28 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Giving credit: my reference or the original? Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:07:28 +0200 Message-ID: <39260.927281248@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, When giving credit where it's due in my code, should I mention the code that I looked at, or the code on which _that_ was based? Put graphically: pkgA written by personA pkgB written by personB bits stolen from pkgA by personA I am writing pkgC written by personC (me) bits stolen from ? Thanks, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 3:14: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8984015196 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA00822; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:44:22 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905210744.JAA00822@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Giving credit: my reference or the original? To: sheldonh@uunet.co.za (Sheldon Hearn) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:44:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <39260.927281248@axl.noc.iafrica.com> from "Sheldon Hearn" at May 21, 99 12:07:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 451 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi folks, > > When giving credit where it's due in my code, should I mention the > code that I looked at, or the code on which _that_ was based? > > Put graphically: > > pkgA written by personA > > pkgB written by personB bits stolen from pkgA by personA a couple of parentheses above ------^ wouldn't harm... > > I am writing > pkgC written by personC (me) bits stolen from ? it all depends where you stole the bits from :) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 3:16:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m1-18-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F32158F7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:16:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA06792; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:09:40 +0200 (SAST) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199905211009.MAA06792@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Why we need two distinct MBRs in the sources? In-Reply-To: <44120.927280174@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 21, 1999 02:49:34 am" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), ru@ucb.crimea.ua (Ruslan Ermilov) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:09:22 +0200 (SAST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1> Could it be possible to unite these ones in /src/sys/boot/i386/mbr/ ? > > It could be possible, yes. :) > > - Jordan Seems a good idea: I'll do that, unless of course Ruslan wants to do it himself. At least one of the present MBRs is a bit too strictly correct, and supports booting only from hard drive 0, which is all IBM/Microsoft officially support. It'd probably make life a bit easier to allow booting from any hard drive. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 3:21:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42E0158F7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id GAA04682; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:21:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199905211021.GAA04682@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread_cancel ? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am currently having the author of the SDL-library on my box trying to > cook up a port of the SDL-library for FreeBSD. > > SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer) is the library used by Loki Software to > build CIV:CTP > > As I have seen now the entire library works perfectly ;-) > > except for one thing .... FreeBSD's pthread-implementation (libc_r) > doesn't seem to have the pthread_cancel method(s) implemented .. which > make the threaded part of the library mallfunction ... > > My question is if there is any likely support considdered on adding those > additional function calls to FreeBSD's PTHREAD implementation ? You should search the mailing list archives (probably -hackers and -current) for previous posts. Some work needs to be done to libc in order to properly support POSIX thread cancellation points. I think Richard Seaman volunteered to do this :-) I've got some stale patches to add pthread_cancel and friends to libc_r, but they will not support the POSIX mandated thread cancellation points without changes to libc. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 6:30:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C5B159EF for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01990; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:28:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:28:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199905211328.IAA01990@plains.NoDak.edu> To: grog@lemis.com, tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu Subject: Re: Number of TUN devices Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (discussion moved from -questions to -hackers; bits included) > On Thursday, 20 May 1999 at 9:13:12 -0500, Mark Tinguely wrote: > > FYI: > > > > I am playing with the idea of a direct-insert PPP for future SONET/ATM/DSL > > PPP connections. here compression/ACCM are not a concern but higher data > > rates make the kernel/user space copying (x2 once on each device inteface) > > and the prcessing copying can be a concern for throughput. I am not bad > > mouthing the tun driver; it is an excellent driver for serial devices that > > needs to PROCESS the packets from/to the PPP link. > > > > In the SONET/ATM/DSL world, the PDUs will already be in mbufs from the > > device driver. The MRU/MTU can be much larger. The data packets do not > > need to compressed/encrypted/ACCM-ed, so the for those opened NCPs, the > > data packets can be placed directly into the appropriate kernel protocol > > stacks. the diagnostic, and control packets can still be processed in > > user space via a protocol socket. > > > > Have you experimented what kind of through-put the NOS-TUN can handle? > > I suspect that this model would be good enough for DSL speeds. > > Why are you thinking of using user PPP for this? As you say, at the > data rates you're thinking of, it's not an optimal solution. no, only the LCP, NCP, authenication, dignostic messages for debugging is done in user space. this is small traffic to setup/maintain/tear down the connections, especially when you consider we are talking "PVC" in most cases. the network traffic will be either directly forwarded to the appropriate network stack, quietly discarded, or sent back to the originator depending on the state of the link/network protocol. again, I am dealing with a situation where the packets do not have to be processed, unlike the serial PPPs. and on the downside, I lose the alias feature found in user PPP (which hopefully natd could fill in). > This is also probably material for -hackers. moved. --mark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 6:33:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C485915B79 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA11892; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:32:51 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:32:51 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Dan Moschuk Cc: "Pedro J. Lobo" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Database holywars? In-Reply-To: <19990520144215.E94835@trinsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dan Moschuk wrote: >=20 > | =BFHave you considered PostgreSQL? It is on the ports collection, and i= s a > | heavy duty database engine, with transactions, subqueries (only partial > | support), etc. Version 6.5 will be released in about two weeks, and it > | adds MVCC (multi-version concurrency control), which will improve a lot > | its multi-user capabilities. And, I know of some projects that are usin= g > | it for multi-GB databases. I've been using it for or student database > | for more than two years (since version 6.0), and am quite happy with > | it. See www.postgresql.org for more information. >=20 > If I recall correctly, isn't postgresql *based* off of the Berkeley DB=20 > engine? >=20 > -Dan >=20 No. At least I really don't think so. the lineage of postgresql is=20 postgres->postgres95->postgresql =09Sander =09There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - =09all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 6:48:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nero.cybersites.com (nero.cybersites.com [207.92.123.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80A014C16 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from f8m7n1 (dhcp77.cybersites.com [207.92.123.77]) by nero.cybersites.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06877 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:50:20 -0400 Message-ID: <002201bea390$5e707900$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> From: "Chuck Youse" To: Subject: Cyclades Ze driver Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:46:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any particular reason why this hasn't been pulled into the main tree? It's been around for a while, and in my experience performs stably. (on 2.2.x anyway). I was shocked when I discovered that I still needed to grab the drivers and install them separately for 3.x. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 6:57:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855CE14BEB; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id QAA06292; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:55:06 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:55:05 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Chuck Youse , bde@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cyclades Ze driver Message-ID: <19990521165505.A4885@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Chuck Youse , bde@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <002201bea390$5e707900$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <002201bea390$5e707900$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1>; from Chuck Youse on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:46:46AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:46:46AM -0400, Chuck Youse wrote: > Is there any particular reason why this hasn't been pulled into the main > tree? It's been around for a while, and in my experience performs stably. > (on 2.2.x anyway). I was shocked when I discovered that I still needed to > grab the drivers and install them separately for 3.x. > > Chuck Youse > Director of Systems > cyouse@cybersites.com I think the reason is that FreeBSD team doesn't have this one to test it. -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 7: 8:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ACC.sim.net.ua (ACC.sim.net.ua [62.244.20.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D068514BEB for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pasha@sim.net.ua) Received: from sim.net.ua (GW.sumy.net [62.244.20.220]) by ACC.sim.net.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27600 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:08:23 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <374568D7.AB8A7957@sim.net.ua> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:08:23 +0300 From: Pavel Narozhniy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Source code of SGI XFS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Does anybody heard about SGI releasing XFS source code? I had read article in Russian ZDnews about this issue. Author wrote about Caldera people porting this journaling, 64-bit filesystem to Linux. [HE-He, time for question ;) ] What about FreeBSD? Any plans? P.S. Sorry for my poor English -- Pavel Narozhniy nic-hdl: PN395-RIPE http://www.sumy.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 7:32:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D0014D21 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA16579; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:32:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03405; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:59:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905211359.OAA03405@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Tinguely Cc: grog@lemis.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Number of TUN devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 08:28:59 CDT." <199905211328.IAA01990@plains.NoDak.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:59:02 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > > Why are you thinking of using user PPP for this? As you say, at the > > data rates you're thinking of, it's not an optimal solution. > > no, only the LCP, NCP, authenication, dignostic messages for debugging > is done in user space. this is small traffic to setup/maintain/tear down > the connections, especially when you consider we are talking "PVC" in most > cases. the network traffic will be either directly forwarded to the > appropriate network stack, quietly discarded, or sent back to the originator > depending on the state of the link/network protocol. > > again, I am dealing with a situation where the packets do not have to > be processed, unlike the serial PPPs. and on the downside, I lose the > alias feature found in user PPP (which hopefully natd could fill in). Ppp now supports a udp transport in synchronous mode. The overheads are less and throughput is increased by a factor of about 3. It's only available in -current (and from my web site). It sounds like you want ppp in sync mode - maybe with additional device support (see tty.c udp.c tcp.c & exec.c in the current ppp sources). > > This is also probably material for -hackers. > > moved. > > --mark. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 7:53:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387AB150B2 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA74303; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:21:54 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199905211451.AAA74303@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: Source code of SGI XFS To: pasha@sim.net.ua (Pavel Narozhniy) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:21:54 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374568D7.AB8A7957@sim.net.ua> from "Pavel Narozhniy" at May 21, 99 05:08:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Pavel Narozhniy wrote: > Does anybody heard about SGI releasing XFS source code? Yup, they're doing it. I would guess that FreeBSD would need a fairly thorough revamp of its handling of kernel memory allocation before XFS would be fully usable, though: XFS buffer management is pretty full-on. The filesystem maintains its own pool of kernel buffers separate from the VM page cache which it uses for aggregating I/O transfers (so that if, say, you make 5 separate out-of-order I/Os which just happen to blanket a contiguous region of a disk object, XFS will collapse them into a single I/O; it'll also take small contiguous regions (extents) and remap them into the next-power-of-two extent size as they grow. I know I could probably see by looking at the source, but does FreeBSD still impose a 64k limit on physical I/O operations? That'll have to go too... - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:12:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 354CF14D4B for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12279 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:01:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:01:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: open a file for read and write Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I want to read and write a file, I can do it in two ways: (1) Open the file as read and write, using one file descriptor. (2) Open the file as read only and open it again as write only, using a total of two file descriptors. Method (2) is more clear in logic and uses a little more resource (file descriptors). Other than these, are there any performance reasons for doing so? Method (2) is used in source code file mkfs.c when we open a special device file to create a file system. Thanks for any help. -Zhihui -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:18:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187AE14D4B for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24090; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA43647; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Doug Rabson Subject: Re: dlopen failure Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, damian@cablenet.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Rabson wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 1999, John Polstra wrote: > >> In article <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net>, >> Damian Hamill wrote: >> > I have a program that is dumping core. >> > >> > ----------------------------------------------- >> > Here's the gdb output; >> > >> > Program terminated with signal 6, Abort trap. >> > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () >> > (gdb) bt >> > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () >> > #1 0x800b34c in abort () >> > #2 0x8004aa2 in __assert () >> > #3 0x8003b4b in map_object () >> > #4 0x8002e9e in find_symdef () >> > #5 0x800334d in dlopen () >> > #6 0x8049a68 in Get_SQL_Driver (name=0x804c7e4 "mysql") at Vdb.c:150 >> > #7 0x8049ff9 in GetDefaultDriver () at Vdb.c:254 >> > #8 0x804a141 in VdbInit (user=0x804bfb1 "nobody", passwd=0x0) at >> > Vdb.c:329 >> > #9 0x8049316 in main () >> > #10 0x8048be5 in _start () >> >> I don't know what's going on here, but this stack trace can't be >> right. dlopen doesn't call find_symdef, and find_symdef doesn't >> call map_object. > > Isn't map_object() part of the a.out rtld? Both rtlds have functions named find_symdef() and map_object(). He indicated that it was an ELF system, so I assumed he was using the ELF rtld. In any case, my statement about the stack trace would be equally true for the a.out dynamic linker. :-) John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:19:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F54C14D4B for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@acl.lanl.gov) Received: from queen.acl.lanl.gov (rminnich@queen.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.181]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA203135 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (rminnich@localhost) by queen.acl.lanl.gov (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15749 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:19:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: queen.acl.lanl.gov: rminnich owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:19:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: open a file for read and write In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > (1) Open the file as read and write, using one file descriptor. > (2) Open the file as read only and open it again as write only, using a > total of two file descriptors. > > Method (2) is more clear in logic and uses a little more resource (file you're using a factor of two more FDs for something that is less clear at least to me. "I don't care about a factor of 2, and neither do my 7 friends" ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:25:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7BB152DF for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA09694; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:24:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:23:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SA_{SPACE,REWIND,ERASE}_TIMEOUT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG These may go away soon as currently constituted because they are properly a per-device type value. On 21 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > I want to convert these kernel options to sysctl variables. Where > should they be inserted into the tree? I was thinking of creating a > new 'cam' top-level category and put them there: > > cam.sa.space_timeout > cam.sa.rewind_timeout > cam.sa.erase_timeout > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:32:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B586615541 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id KAA00357 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:32:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:32:44 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world is on FreeBSD. This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging the keyboard does not help. Here's the boot trace... (with a bit of annotation) Copyright (c) 1992-1999 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #5: Fri May 21 00:39:24 CDT 1999 karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net:/usr/src/sys/compile/KARL Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 199433357 Hz CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x617 Stepping=7 Features=0xfbff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) sio0: system console <<<<< What's this? avail memory = 127262720 (124280K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel.new" at 0xc0335000. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled, default memory type is uncacheable Probing for PnP devices: npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: at device 0.0 on pci0 isab0: at device 7.0 on pci0 chip1: at device 7.1 on pci0 ahc0: irq 9 at device 11.0 on pci0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs ahc1: irq 10 at device 12.0 on pci0 ahc1: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs fxp0: irq 11 at device 13.0 on pci0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:a4:78:c3 vga-pci0: at device 14.0 on pci0 devclass_alloc_unit: npx0 already exists, using next available unit number isa0 on motherboard fdc0: at port 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: <1440-KB 3.5" drive> at fdc0 drive 0 atkbdc0: at port 0x60-0x6f on isa0 vga0: on isa0 sc0: on isa0 sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio0: type 16550A sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 sio1: type 16550A sio2: not probed (disabled) sio3: not probed (disabled) dgb0: PC/Xe 64K dgb0 at port 0x220-0x223 iomem 0xd0000-0xdffff on isa0 dgb0: 8 ports sscape0 at port 0x330 irq 9 on isa0 snd0: snd0: sscape_mss0 at port 0x534 irq 5 drq 1 on isa0 snd0: IP packet filtering initialized, divert enabled, rule-based forwarding enabled, default to accept, logging limited to 100 packets/entry IP Filter: initialized. Default = pass all, Logging = enabled Waiting 5 seconds for SCSI devices to settle sa0 at ahc1 bus 0 target 2 lun 0 sa0: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa0: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 15) sa1 at ahc1 bus 0 target 3 lun 0 sa1: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa1: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 15) sa2 at ahc1 bus 0 target 4 lun 0 sa2: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa2: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 7) sa3 at ahc1 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 sa3: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa3: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 8) da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 8 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da1: 8682MB (17781520 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C) da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 20.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 4094MB (8386000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 522C) changing root device to da0s1a Yes, I updated config before I built, etc etc etc. Any ideas? Its not the hardware - my old kernel runs and the console works with it. Other than the console, the machine seems to be ok. From the stuff in the LINT file it appears that I should not have a problem with the flags on the sio0 definition, but that first line DOES look suspicious. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:38: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BC515541 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13820; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:37:21 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 13817; Fri May 21 17:37:07 1999 Message-ID: <37457DC4.CD84C812@cdsec.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:37:40 +0200 From: Graham Wheeler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > is on FreeBSD. > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > the keyboard does not help. Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)423-6065/6/7 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:40:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4895015986 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id KAA00413; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:40:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:40:23 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Graham Wheeler Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <37457DC4.CD84C812@cdsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <37457DC4.CD84C812@cdsec.com>; from Graham Wheeler on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > the keyboard does not help. > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? You mean this one? device sc0 at isa? Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:43:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1655214D2F for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id RAA20331; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:43:04 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:43:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Karl Denninger Cc: Graham Wheeler , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-Reply-To: <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could you post a diff against a GENERIC? If possible zap the GENERIC file first and recreate it with a 'cvs update' if you have a repository available, or with 'cvsup' if not. Nick On Fri, 21 May 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > > the keyboard does not help. > > > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? > > You mean this one? > > device sc0 at isa? > > Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:46:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DE315990 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10krUp-0008Ly-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:46:04 +0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:46:03 +0700 (ALMST) From: Boris Popov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: execve and VOP_CLOSE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Playing with nwfs I found that kernel execve routine calls VOP_OPEN without following VOP_CLOSE. Instead it just do vrele which causes call to VOP_INACTIVE. For other cases it seems that OPEN/CLOSE are always called in pair. This doesn't looks like a big problem because code in VOP_INACTIVE should check for an unclosed files/directories, but may be the following will be more correct: --- kern_exec.c Sun Apr 25 14:10:54 1999 +++ kern_exec.c.new Fri May 21 22:26:16 1999 @@ -185,6 +185,7 @@ goto exec_fail_dealloc; if (imgp->interpreted) { exec_unmap_first_page(imgp); + vn_close(ndp->ni_vp, FREAD, p->p_ucred, p); /* free old vnode and name buffer */ vrele(ndp->ni_vp); zfree(namei_zone, ndp->ni_cnd.cn_pnbuf); -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:47:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEFA1599E for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14458; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:46:48 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 14388; Fri May 21 17:45:50 1999 Message-ID: <37457FCC.FF4B32CE@cdsec.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:46:20 +0200 From: Graham Wheeler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <37457DC4.CD84C812@cdsec.com> <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > > the keyboard does not help. > > > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? > > You mean this one? > > device sc0 at isa? > > Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). Right - I missed it when I scanned the trace. I suggested that because I once made that mistake and had just the behaviour you described. Presumably you can telnet in? How about trying the vt0 device instead? -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)423-6065/6/7 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:53:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB1C15986 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:53:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id KAA00509; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:53:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:53:06 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Nick Hibma Cc: Graham Wheeler , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:43:01PM +0200 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Diff follows. Note that this same config file (minus the "config" line that is deprecated and used to specify where root, swap, etc was) built the kernel that runs without problems a month or so back. I've looked through the commit logs and can't find anything that would lead me to believe that major changes in the keyboard driver have been made. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. 14c14 < # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.150 1999/02/14 20:28:38 jkh Exp $ --- > # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.170 1999/05/14 03:57:23 obrien Exp $ 16,22c16,24 < machine "i386" < cpu "I386_CPU" < cpu "I486_CPU" < cpu "I586_CPU" < cpu "I686_CPU" < ident KARLNEW < maxusers 64 --- > machine i386 > cpu I386_CPU > cpu I486_CPU > cpu I586_CPU > cpu I686_CPU > ident GENERIC > maxusers 32 > > #makeoptions DEBUG=-g #Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols 33,34c35,36 < options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem < options "CD9660_ROOT" #CD-ROM usable as root. "CD9660" req'ed --- > options CD9660 #ISO 9660 Filesystem > options CD9660_ROOT #CD-ROM usable as root. "CD9660" req'ed 36,37c38,39 < options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] < options SCSI_DELAY=5000 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device --- > options COMPAT_43 #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] > options SCSI_DELAY=15000 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device 42,60d43 < options ICMP_BANDLIM < < options IPFIREWALL #firewall < options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about < # dropped packets < options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD #enable transparent proxy support < options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100 #limit verbosity < options IPFIREWALL_DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT #allow everything by default < options IPDIVERT #divert sockets < options IPFILTER #kernel ipfilter support < options IPFILTER_LOG #ipfilter logging < #options IPFILTER_LKM #kernel support for ip_fil.o LKM < options IPSTEALTH #support for stealth forwarding < #options TCPDEBUG < < options DDB # Kernel debugger < options DDB_UNATTENDED # Don't go to debugger on panic < < #config kernel root on da0 76c59 < controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" irq 6 drq 2 --- > controller fdc0 at isa? port IO_FD1 irq 6 drq 2 80,92c63,74 < #options "CMD640" # work around CMD640 chip deficiency < #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 < #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 < #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 < < #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 < #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 < #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 < < #options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus < #options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM < #device acd0 #IDE CD-ROM < #device wfd0 #IDE Floppy (e.g. LS-120) --- > controller wdc0 at isa? port IO_WD1 irq 14 > disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 > disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 > > controller wdc1 at isa? port IO_WD2 irq 15 > disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 > disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 > > # ATAPI devices on wdc? > device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM > device wfd0 #IDE Floppy (e.g. LS-120) > device wst0 #IDE Tape (e.g. Travan) 96,97c78,79 < #controller ncr0 < #controller ahb0 --- > controller ncr0 > controller ahb0 99c81 < #controller isp0 --- > controller isp0 104c86 < #controller dpt0 --- > controller dpt0 106,110c88,91 < #controller adv0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? < #controller adw0 < #controller bt0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? < #controller aha0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? < #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 --- > controller adv0 at isa? port ? irq ? > controller adw0 > controller bt0 at isa? port ? irq ? > controller aha0 at isa? port ? irq ? 114,115c95 < device da0 < --- > device da0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows 117d96 < 118a98 > device cd0 120,123c100,101 < device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows < < #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 < #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 --- > device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 5 drq 1 > device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 125c103 < #controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio --- > controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 127c105 < #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio --- > device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 129,132c107,110 < # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse < controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD < device atkbd0 at isa? irq 1 < device psm0 at isa? irq 12 --- > # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 140c118,119 < device sc0 at isa? --- > device sc0 at isa? > 142c121 < #device vt0 at isa? --- > #device vt0 at isa? 148c127 < device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 --- > device npx0 at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 153c132 < #device apm0 at isa? disable flags 0x31 # Advanced Power Management --- > device apm0 at nexus? disable flags 0x31 # Advanced Power Management 160,163c139,142 < device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x10 irq 4 < device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" irq 3 < device sio2 at isa? disable port "IO_COM3" irq 5 < device sio3 at isa? disable port "IO_COM4" irq 9 --- > device sio0 at isa? port IO_COM1 flags 0x10 irq 4 > device sio1 at isa? port IO_COM2 irq 3 > device sio2 at isa? disable port IO_COM3 irq 5 > device sio3 at isa? disable port IO_COM4 irq 9 166,167c145 < device ppc0 at isa? port? irq 7 < device ppc1 at isa? port? --- > device ppc0 at isa? port? flags 0x40 irq 7 173a152,167 > # > # The following Ethernet NICs are all PCI devices. > # > device ax0 # ASIX AX88140A > device de0 # DEC/Intel DC21x4x (``Tulip'') > device fxp0 # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558) > device mx0 # Macronix 98713/98715/98725 (``PMAC'') > device pn0 # Lite-On 82c168/82c169 (``PNIC'') > device rl0 # RealTek 8129/8139 > device tl0 # Texas Instruments ThunderLAN > device tx0 # SMC 9432TX (83c170 ``EPIC'') > device vr0 # VIA Rhine, Rhine II > device vx0 # 3Com 3c590, 3c595 (``Vortex'') > device wb0 # Winbond W89C840F > device xl0 # 3Com 3c90x (``Boomerang'', ``Cyclone'') > 178,209c172,182 < device ax0 < device de0 < device fxp0 < device mx0 < device pn0 < device rl0 < device tl0 < device tx0 < device vr0 < device vx0 < device wb0 < device xl0 < < #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 < #device ie0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 < #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 < #device ex0 at isa? port? net irq? < #device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? < #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 < #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 < #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 < #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 < #device cs0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? < < # < # Digiboard and Soundscape Drivers < # < device dgb0 at isa? port 0x220 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz ? < < controller snd0 < device sscape0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 9 drq 0 < device sscape_mss0 at isa? port 0x534 irq 5 drq 1 --- > device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > device ie0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 > device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 > device ex0 at isa? port? irq? > device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 irq ? > device le0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 > device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 10 drq 0 > #device xe0 at isa? port? irq ? > #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > device cs0 at isa? port 0x300 irq ? 216c189 < pseudo-device pty 64 --- > pseudo-device pty 16 228,229c201 < options SYSVSEM < options SOFTUPDATES --- > options SYSVSEM 235,236c207 < pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter < --- > #pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter 239,241c210,212 < #controller uhci0 < #controller ohci0 < #controller usb0 --- > #controller uhci0 > #controller ohci0 > #controller usb0 247,258c218,223 < #device ums0 < #device ukbd0 < #device ulpt0 < #device uhub0 < #device ucom0 < #device umodem0 < #device hid0 < #device ugen0 < < # < #options USB_DEBUG < #options USBVERBOSE --- > #controller umass0 > #device ums0 > #device ukbd0 > #device ulpt0 > #device uhid0 > #device ugen0 On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:43:01PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > Could you post a diff against a GENERIC? If possible zap the GENERIC > file first and recreate it with a 'cvs update' if you have a repository > available, or with 'cvsup' if not. > > Nick > > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > > > the keyboard does not help. > > > > > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? > > > > You mean this one? > > > > device sc0 at isa? > > > > Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). > > > > -- > > -- > > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > -- > ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy > -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 8:55: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250FD15986 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:55:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id KAA00529; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521105448.A525@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:54:48 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Nick Hibma Cc: Graham Wheeler , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net>; from Karl Denninger on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:53:06AM -0500 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh, one more thing. When I say "locked up", I mean "locked". As in the Numlock key doesn't toggle the LED state, neither does CAPS LOCK. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:53:06AM -0500, Karl Denninger wrote: > Diff follows. > > Note that this same config file (minus the "config" line that is deprecated > and used to specify where root, swap, etc was) built the kernel that runs > without problems a month or so back. > > I've looked through the commit logs and can't find anything that would lead > me to believe that major changes in the keyboard driver have been made. > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > 14c14 > < # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.150 1999/02/14 20:28:38 jkh Exp $ > --- > > # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.170 1999/05/14 03:57:23 obrien Exp $ > 16,22c16,24 > < machine "i386" > < cpu "I386_CPU" > < cpu "I486_CPU" > < cpu "I586_CPU" > < cpu "I686_CPU" > < ident KARLNEW > < maxusers 64 > --- > > machine i386 > > cpu I386_CPU > > cpu I486_CPU > > cpu I586_CPU > > cpu I686_CPU > > ident GENERIC > > maxusers 32 > > > > #makeoptions DEBUG=-g #Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols > 33,34c35,36 > < options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem > < options "CD9660_ROOT" #CD-ROM usable as root. "CD9660" req'ed > --- > > options CD9660 #ISO 9660 Filesystem > > options CD9660_ROOT #CD-ROM usable as root. "CD9660" req'ed > 36,37c38,39 > < options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] > < options SCSI_DELAY=5000 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device > --- > > options COMPAT_43 #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] > > options SCSI_DELAY=15000 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device > 42,60d43 > < options ICMP_BANDLIM > < > < options IPFIREWALL #firewall > < options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about > < # dropped packets > < options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD #enable transparent proxy support > < options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100 #limit verbosity > < options IPFIREWALL_DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT #allow everything by default > < options IPDIVERT #divert sockets > < options IPFILTER #kernel ipfilter support > < options IPFILTER_LOG #ipfilter logging > < #options IPFILTER_LKM #kernel support for ip_fil.o LKM > < options IPSTEALTH #support for stealth forwarding > < #options TCPDEBUG > < > < options DDB # Kernel debugger > < options DDB_UNATTENDED # Don't go to debugger on panic > < > < #config kernel root on da0 > 76c59 > < controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" irq 6 drq 2 > --- > > controller fdc0 at isa? port IO_FD1 irq 6 drq 2 > 80,92c63,74 > < #options "CMD640" # work around CMD640 chip deficiency > < #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 > < #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 > < #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 > < > < #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 > < #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 > < #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 > < > < #options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus > < #options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM > < #device acd0 #IDE CD-ROM > < #device wfd0 #IDE Floppy (e.g. LS-120) > --- > > controller wdc0 at isa? port IO_WD1 irq 14 > > disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 > > disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 > > > > controller wdc1 at isa? port IO_WD2 irq 15 > > disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 > > disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 > > > > # ATAPI devices on wdc? > > device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM > > device wfd0 #IDE Floppy (e.g. LS-120) > > device wst0 #IDE Tape (e.g. Travan) > 96,97c78,79 > < #controller ncr0 > < #controller ahb0 > --- > > controller ncr0 > > controller ahb0 > 99c81 > < #controller isp0 > --- > > controller isp0 > 104c86 > < #controller dpt0 > --- > > controller dpt0 > 106,110c88,91 > < #controller adv0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? > < #controller adw0 > < #controller bt0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? > < #controller aha0 at isa? port ? cam irq ? > < #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 > --- > > controller adv0 at isa? port ? irq ? > > controller adw0 > > controller bt0 at isa? port ? irq ? > > controller aha0 at isa? port ? irq ? > 114,115c95 > < device da0 > < > --- > > device da0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows > 117d96 > < > 118a98 > > device cd0 > 120,123c100,101 > < device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows > < > < #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 > < #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 > --- > > device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 5 drq 1 > > device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 > 125c103 > < #controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio > --- > > controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 > 127c105 > < #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio > --- > > device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 > 129,132c107,110 > < # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > < controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > < device atkbd0 at isa? irq 1 > < device psm0 at isa? irq 12 > --- > > # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > > controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 > 140c118,119 > < device sc0 at isa? > --- > > device sc0 at isa? > > > 142c121 > < #device vt0 at isa? > --- > > #device vt0 at isa? > 148c127 > < device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 > --- > > device npx0 at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 > 153c132 > < #device apm0 at isa? disable flags 0x31 # Advanced Power Management > --- > > device apm0 at nexus? disable flags 0x31 # Advanced Power Management > 160,163c139,142 > < device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x10 irq 4 > < device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" irq 3 > < device sio2 at isa? disable port "IO_COM3" irq 5 > < device sio3 at isa? disable port "IO_COM4" irq 9 > --- > > device sio0 at isa? port IO_COM1 flags 0x10 irq 4 > > device sio1 at isa? port IO_COM2 irq 3 > > device sio2 at isa? disable port IO_COM3 irq 5 > > device sio3 at isa? disable port IO_COM4 irq 9 > 166,167c145 > < device ppc0 at isa? port? irq 7 > < device ppc1 at isa? port? > --- > > device ppc0 at isa? port? flags 0x40 irq 7 > 173a152,167 > > # > > # The following Ethernet NICs are all PCI devices. > > # > > device ax0 # ASIX AX88140A > > device de0 # DEC/Intel DC21x4x (``Tulip'') > > device fxp0 # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558) > > device mx0 # Macronix 98713/98715/98725 (``PMAC'') > > device pn0 # Lite-On 82c168/82c169 (``PNIC'') > > device rl0 # RealTek 8129/8139 > > device tl0 # Texas Instruments ThunderLAN > > device tx0 # SMC 9432TX (83c170 ``EPIC'') > > device vr0 # VIA Rhine, Rhine II > > device vx0 # 3Com 3c590, 3c595 (``Vortex'') > > device wb0 # Winbond W89C840F > > device xl0 # 3Com 3c90x (``Boomerang'', ``Cyclone'') > > > 178,209c172,182 > < device ax0 > < device de0 > < device fxp0 > < device mx0 > < device pn0 > < device rl0 > < device tl0 > < device tx0 > < device vr0 > < device vx0 > < device wb0 > < device xl0 > < > < #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > < #device ie0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 > < #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 > < #device ex0 at isa? port? net irq? > < #device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? > < #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 > < #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 > < #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > < #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > < #device cs0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? > < > < # > < # Digiboard and Soundscape Drivers > < # > < device dgb0 at isa? port 0x220 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz ? > < > < controller snd0 > < device sscape0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 9 drq 0 > < device sscape_mss0 at isa? port 0x534 irq 5 drq 1 > --- > > device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > > device ie0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 > > device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 > > device ex0 at isa? port? irq? > > device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 irq ? > > device le0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 > > device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 10 drq 0 > > #device xe0 at isa? port? irq ? > > #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > > #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 > > device cs0 at isa? port 0x300 irq ? > 216c189 > < pseudo-device pty 64 > --- > > pseudo-device pty 16 > 228,229c201 > < options SYSVSEM > < options SOFTUPDATES > --- > > options SYSVSEM > 235,236c207 > < pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter > < > --- > > #pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter > 239,241c210,212 > < #controller uhci0 > < #controller ohci0 > < #controller usb0 > --- > > #controller uhci0 > > #controller ohci0 > > #controller usb0 > 247,258c218,223 > < #device ums0 > < #device ukbd0 > < #device ulpt0 > < #device uhub0 > < #device ucom0 > < #device umodem0 > < #device hid0 > < #device ugen0 > < > < # > < #options USB_DEBUG > < #options USBVERBOSE > --- > > #controller umass0 > > #device ums0 > > #device ukbd0 > > #device ulpt0 > > #device uhid0 > > #device ugen0 > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:43:01PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > Could you post a diff against a GENERIC? If possible zap the GENERIC > > file first and recreate it with a 'cvs update' if you have a repository > > available, or with 'cvsup' if not. > > > > Nick > > > > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > > > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > > > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > > > > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > > > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > > > > the keyboard does not help. > > > > > > > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? > > > > > > You mean this one? > > > > > > device sc0 at isa? > > > > > > Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > > > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > > > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy > > > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9: 2:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BAEE15986 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id SAA20792; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:02:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:02:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Karl Denninger Cc: Graham Wheeler , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-Reply-To: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > < # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > < controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > < device atkbd0 at isa? irq 1 > < device psm0 at isa? irq 12 > --- > > # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > > controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 Looks ok. > < device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 > --- > > device npx0 at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 Mistake (see the dmesg) 140c118,119 < device sc0 at isa? --- > device sc0 at isa? > Why does this one show up? It shouldn't. You might want to retype it to make sure there is no bogus char in there somewhere. > > #controller umass0 > > #device ums0 > > #device ukbd0 > > #device ulpt0 > > #device uhid0 > > #device ugen0 FYI, this GENERIC is not the one from yesterday evening (sorting of the elements above has changed). I can't see anything obviously wrong. Nick > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:43:01PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > Could you post a diff against a GENERIC? If possible zap the GENERIC > > file first and recreate it with a 'cvs update' if you have a repository > > available, or with 'cvsup' if not. > > > > Nick > > > > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:37:40PM +0200, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > > > I built a new kernel last night and started a buildworld before going to > > > > > bed. Just a "tracking" type of thing to see what the state of the world > > > > > is on FreeBSD. > > > > > > > > > > This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > > > > is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > > > > the keyboard does not help. > > > > > > > > Are you sure you haven't omitted the syscons device? > > > > > > You mean this one? > > > > > > device sc0 at isa? > > > > > > Yes, its in there (it shows on the boot trace). > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > > > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > > > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy > > > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9: 9: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles521.castles.com [208.214.165.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB05B15986 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00852; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905211604.JAA00852@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ladavac Marino Cc: "'Mike Smith'" , Joel Ray Holveck , Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 10:07:24 +0200." <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179612@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:04:57 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Level-triggered interrupts are persistent conditions, not queueable > > events. They typically require device-driver level intervention to be > > > > cleared. This is a major error in the PCI design (no surprises > > there). > > > [ML] Whoa there! That's the MAJOR advantage of PCI design. > Open collector, active low, level triggered interrupts are the only > possibility for interupt line sharing without programmatically > accessible registers on card which say "yes, I am still interrupting". For a simplistic bus, perhaps. But an arbitrated token-delivery interrupt buslet with a bus-standardised interrupt state acknowledgement protocol would be much more efficient. PCI makes too many compromises to the PC's architecture; we're just about ready for a new bus again. > Active high, edge triggered interrupts are an abomination (there > is no way to reliably share the interrupt line and you cannot even wire > or it). They are the reason why one never has enough interrupt lines on > ISA. I don't believe I ever suggested that this was the only alternative technique, and I'm certainly on record as not liking it either. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9: 9:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943D6159DF for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:09:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id LAA01071; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:09:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521110916.A1049@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:09:16 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Nick Hibma Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 06:02:17PM +0200 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 06:02:17PM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > < # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > > < controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > < device atkbd0 at isa? irq 1 > > < device psm0 at isa? irq 12 > > --- > > > # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > > > controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 > > Looks ok. > > > < device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 > > --- > > > device npx0 at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 > > Mistake (see the dmesg) Yep - I'll fix that one. > 140c118,119 > < device sc0 at isa? > --- > > device sc0 at isa? > > > > Why does this one show up? It shouldn't. You might want to retype it to > make sure there is no bogus char in there somewhere. There's a space after the "?". I got rid of it, but I can't see how THAT would break anything. > > > #controller umass0 > > > #device ums0 > > > #device ukbd0 > > > #device ulpt0 > > > #device uhid0 > > > #device ugen0 > > FYI, this GENERIC is not the one from yesterday evening (sorting of the > elements above has changed). > > I can't see anything obviously wrong. > > Nick I don't see anything obviously wrong either. It DOES reset the keyboard during the boot (the LEDs flash), so the probe definitely does see the device (not to mention that I can use it in the loader, which is how I found out about this - I booted the new kernel manually in single-user - part of my standard "be careful" stuff - and then found it locked when it asked me for the root shell!) I don't see anything in the commit logs from my early-morning CVSUP that would indicate anything significant happening in the last 24 hours, but I'll give it another build and see what happens. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:13:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles521.castles.com [208.214.165.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795CE159B7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00917; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905211611.JAA00917@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SA_{SPACE,REWIND,ERASE}_TIMEOUT In-reply-to: Your message of "21 May 1999 10:50:39 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:11:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I want to convert these kernel options to sysctl variables. Where > should they be inserted into the tree? I was thinking of creating a > new 'cam' top-level category and put them there: > > cam.sa.space_timeout > cam.sa.rewind_timeout > cam.sa.erase_timeout These should be per-device parameters; you will want to create a virtual namespace for them, or make them settable via ioctl on each sa device. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:15:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C758159BA for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09892; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:15:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mike Smith Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SA_{SPACE,REWIND,ERASE}_TIMEOUT In-Reply-To: <199905211611.JAA00917@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I want to convert these kernel options to sysctl variables. Where > > should they be inserted into the tree? I was thinking of creating a > > new 'cam' top-level category and put them there: > > > > cam.sa.space_timeout > > cam.sa.rewind_timeout > > cam.sa.erase_timeout > > These should be per-device parameters; you will want to create a > virtual namespace for them, or make them settable via ioctl on each sa > device. It should be an argument to the 'mt' command. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:19: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles521.castles.com [208.214.165.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546B31566C for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00959; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905211616.JAA00959@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Newton Cc: pasha@sim.net.ua (Pavel Narozhniy), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source code of SGI XFS In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 May 1999 00:21:54 +0930." <199905211451.AAA74303@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:16:34 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Pavel Narozhniy wrote: > > > Does anybody heard about SGI releasing XFS source code? > > Yup, they're doing it. > > I would guess that FreeBSD would need a fairly thorough revamp of its > handling of kernel memory allocation before XFS would be fully usable, > though: XFS buffer management is pretty full-on. Read "Irix has shitty block I/O support so XFS has to do it all itself". > The filesystem maintains its own pool of kernel buffers separate from > the VM page cache which it uses for aggregating I/O transfers (so that > if, say, you make 5 separate out-of-order I/Os which just happen to > blanket a contiguous region of a disk object, XFS will collapse them > into a single I/O; We do this too; it's called I/O clustering, but it's done below the filesystem so that anyone and everyone can benefit from it. > it'll also take small contiguous regions (extents) > and remap them into the next-power-of-two extent size as they grow. Whatever that means. 8) > I know I could probably see by looking at the source, but does FreeBSD > still impose a 64k limit on physical I/O operations? That'll have > to go too... Nominally. We ought to be able to support fragmentation as required to support the underlying device, but it's not complete yet. The fixes are relatively trivial. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:22:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AA915A0E for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:22:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id SAA21400; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:21:57 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:21:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-Reply-To: <19990521110916.A1049@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > 140c118,119 > > < device sc0 at isa? > > --- > > > device sc0 at isa? > > > > > > > Why does this one show up? It shouldn't. You might want to retype it to > > make sure there is no bogus char in there somewhere. > > There's a space after the "?". I got rid of it, but I can't see how THAT > would break anything. Just being paranoid, that's all. > I don't see anything in the commit logs from my early-morning CVSUP that > would indicate anything significant happening in the last 24 hours, but > I'll give it another build and see what happens. Do a make clean as well in the kernel dir. You might be looking at some problem there. Feierabend. I'm off. Good luck. Nick -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:38:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AF214E48 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:/UhJCBF/jOSXTEr6i6OdMoc5hJXek5o9@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id BAA30128; Sat, 22 May 1999 01:37:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id BAA12142; Sat, 22 May 1999 01:41:46 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 10:32:44 EST." <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 01:41:45 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console >is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging >the keyboard does not help. > >Here's the boot trace... (with a bit of annotation) > >Copyright (c) 1992-1999 The FreeBSD Project. >Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. >FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #5: Fri May 21 00:39:24 CDT 1999 > karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net:/usr/src/sys/compile/KARL [...] >atkbdc0: at port 0x60-0x6f on isa0 >vga0: on isa0 >sc0: on isa0 >sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> The keyboard driver is not configured correctly. Make sure you have the following lines. # keyboard controller device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD # AT keyboard device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 # PS/2 mouse device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 I suspect you config file contains "at isa?" for atkbd0 and psm0, rather than "at atkbdc?". Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:45:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DB815014 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id LAA00280; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:55 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>; from Kazutaka YOKOTA on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 01:41:45AM +0900 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Got it. I figured it out just as you were sending this :-) This is one that should be noted somewhere (either in GENERIC or LINT); it bit me and it will bite others who have custom configuration files that they've been using for a while. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 01:41:45AM +0900, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > >This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > >is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > >the keyboard does not help. > > > >Here's the boot trace... (with a bit of annotation) > > > >Copyright (c) 1992-1999 The FreeBSD Project. > >Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > >FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #5: Fri May 21 00:39:24 CDT 1999 > > karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net:/usr/src/sys/compile/KARL > [...] > >atkbdc0: at port 0x60-0x6f on isa0 > >vga0: on isa0 > >sc0: on isa0 > >sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > The keyboard driver is not configured correctly. Make sure you have > the following lines. > > # keyboard controller > device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > # AT keyboard > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > # PS/2 mouse > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 > > I suspect you config file contains "at isa?" for atkbd0 and psm0, > rather than "at atkbdc?". > > Kazu > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 9:59:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [195.248.96.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A3B14D01 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from damian@cablenet.net) Received: from cablenet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with ESMTP id RAA08920; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:55:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <37458FF0.FC9B24C8@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:55:13 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Polstra Cc: Doug Rabson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dlopen failure References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have found the problem and it is a problem with make. By chance I did an ls -l of the directory and noticed the shared object was only 371 bytes and thought nooooooooo that can't be right. My makefile sez. mysqlacc.so : mysqlacc.o ld -Bshareable -o $@ $< -u _floor ../../lib/libV.a ... {other libs} The '$<' above which should be the implied source i.e. mysqlacc.o wasn't in the ld line where it should have been, hence the error. Replacing '$<' with the implied source name of the object file works fine. Thanks for your help anyway. John Polstra wrote: > > Doug Rabson wrote: > > On Thu, 20 May 1999, John Polstra wrote: > > > >> In article <373C3F3F.A99DBD28@cablenet.net>, > >> Damian Hamill wrote: > >> > I have a program that is dumping core. > >> > > >> > ----------------------------------------------- > >> > Here's the gdb output; > >> > > >> > Program terminated with signal 6, Abort trap. > >> > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > >> > (gdb) bt > >> > #0 0x800b728 in _kill () > >> > #1 0x800b34c in abort () > >> > #2 0x8004aa2 in __assert () > >> > #3 0x8003b4b in map_object () > >> > #4 0x8002e9e in find_symdef () > >> > #5 0x800334d in dlopen () > >> > #6 0x8049a68 in Get_SQL_Driver (name=0x804c7e4 "mysql") at Vdb.c:150 > >> > #7 0x8049ff9 in GetDefaultDriver () at Vdb.c:254 > >> > #8 0x804a141 in VdbInit (user=0x804bfb1 "nobody", passwd=0x0) at > >> > Vdb.c:329 > >> > #9 0x8049316 in main () > >> > #10 0x8048be5 in _start () > >> > >> I don't know what's going on here, but this stack trace can't be > >> right. dlopen doesn't call find_symdef, and find_symdef doesn't > >> call map_object. > > > > Isn't map_object() part of the a.out rtld? > > Both rtlds have functions named find_symdef() and map_object(). He > indicated that it was an ELF system, so I assumed he was using the > ELF rtld. In any case, my statement about the stack trace would be > equally true for the a.out dynamic linker. :-) > > John > --- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- * Damian Hamill M.D. damian@cablenet.net * CableNet & The Landscape Channel * http://www.cablenet.net/ http://www.landscapetv.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 10: 8:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24E6159BA for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA13894; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:07:49 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37459042.3DB12AD6@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 01:56:34 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: "R. Matthew Emerson" , Chuck Youse , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What does VOP_WHITEOUT() do?: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > > On 20 May 1999, R. Matthew Emerson wrote: > :"Chuck Youse" writes: > :> New daemon book? > :> I must have missed that. Do you have the full title? > :McKusick, Bostic, Karels, and Quarterman, The Design and Implementation > :of the 4.4BSD Operating System, Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1996. > :ISBN 0-201-54979-4 > > Not exactly "new". It isn't the 4.3... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 10:34:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3CB14E67 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA16640; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:34:04 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37459762.A7AD0A47@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 02:26:58 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > > Got it. > > I figured it out just as you were sending this :-) > > This is one that should be noted somewhere (either in GENERIC or LINT); > it bit me and it will bite others who have custom configuration files that > they've been using for a while. Like in /usr/src/UPDATING, where such changes are documented? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 11:10:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B90159DB for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29729; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:09:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Mark Newton Cc: Pavel Narozhniy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Source code of SGI XFS In-Reply-To: <199905211451.AAA74303@gizmo.internode.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 22 May 1999, Mark Newton wrote: > Pavel Narozhniy wrote: > > > Does anybody heard about SGI releasing XFS source code? > > Yup, they're doing it. > > I would guess that FreeBSD would need a fairly thorough revamp of its > handling of kernel memory allocation before XFS would be fully usable, > though: XFS buffer management is pretty full-on. > > The filesystem maintains its own pool of kernel buffers separate from > the VM page cache which it uses for aggregating I/O transfers (so that > if, say, you make 5 separate out-of-order I/Os which just happen to > blanket a contiguous region of a disk object, XFS will collapse them > into a single I/O; uh, we already do that don't we? > it'll also take small contiguous regions (extents) > and remap them into the next-power-of-two extent size as they grow. we do this for growing frags too. > > I know I could probably see by looking at the source, but does FreeBSD > still impose a 64k limit on physical I/O operations? That'll have > to go too... > > - mark > > ---- > Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) > Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) > Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 > "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 11:14:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5840514E3B for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29633; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:06:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Mark Tinguely Cc: grog@lemis.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Number of TUN devices In-Reply-To: <199905211328.IAA01990@plains.NoDak.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Mark Tinguely wrote: > (discussion moved from -questions to -hackers; bits included) > > > On Thursday, 20 May 1999 at 9:13:12 -0500, Mark Tinguely wrote: > > > FYI: > > > > > > I am playing with the idea of a direct-insert PPP for future SONET/ATM/DSL > > > PPP connections. here compression/ACCM are not a concern but higher data > > > rates make the kernel/user space copying (x2 once on each device inteface) > > > and the prcessing copying can be a concern for throughput. I am not bad > > > mouthing the tun driver; it is an excellent driver for serial devices that > > > needs to PROCESS the packets from/to the PPP link. > > > > > > In the SONET/ATM/DSL world, the PDUs will already be in mbufs from the > > > device driver. The MRU/MTU can be much larger. The data packets do not > > > need to compressed/encrypted/ACCM-ed, so the for those opened NCPs, the > > > data packets can be placed directly into the appropriate kernel protocol > > > stacks. the diagnostic, and control packets can still be processed in > > > user space via a protocol socket. > > > > > > Have you experimented what kind of through-put the NOS-TUN can handle? > > > I suspect that this model would be good enough for DSL speeds. > > > > Why are you thinking of using user PPP for this? As you say, at the > > data rates you're thinking of, it's not an optimal solution. This is a 'natural' for the netgraph code we use for the Interjet. (available from ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/netgraph/index.html ) we use it together with the our mpd ppp daemon, and kernel based ppp modules for all sorts of networking combinations. > > no, only the LCP, NCP, authenication, dignostic messages for debugging > is done in user space. this is small traffic to setup/maintain/tear down > the connections, especially when you consider we are talking "PVC" in most > cases. the network traffic will be either directly forwarded to the > appropriate network stack, quietly discarded, or sent back to the originator > depending on the state of the link/network protocol. > > again, I am dealing with a situation where the packets do not have to > be processed, unlike the serial PPPs. and on the downside, I lose the > alias feature found in user PPP (which hopefully natd could fill in). > > > This is also probably material for -hackers. > > moved. > > --mark. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 11:26:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9953314E3B for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA12960 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:15:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:15:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mmap of a network buffer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I really do not know how to describe the problem. But a friend here asks me how to mmap a network buffer so that there is no need to copy the data from user space to kernel space. We are not sure whether FreeBSD can create a device file (mknod) for a network card, and if so, we can use the mmap() call to do so because mmap() requires a file descriptor. We assume that the file descriptor can be acquired by opening the network device. If this is infeasible, is there another way to accomplish the same goal? Thanks for any enlightment. -Zhihui -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 11:30:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7094A14CC7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id VAA70032; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:29:10 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:29:10 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [SOS] gdb is broken!!! Message-ID: <19990521212910.A66610@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG # uname -v FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Sun May 16 23:51:55 EEST 1999 root@relay.ucb.crimea.ua:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHYRO How to repeat: Script started on Fri May 21 21:20:49 1999 relay# cat ^\Quit (core dumped) relay# gdb /bin/cat ./cat.core GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... Core was generated by `cat'. Program terminated with signal 3, Quit. Segmentation fault (core dumped) relay# relay# gdb /usr/bin/gdb ./gdb.core GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... Core was generated by `gdb'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. Segmentation fault (core dumped) relay# relay# exit Script done on Fri May 21 21:21:32 1999 -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 11:37:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay2.mail.uk.psi.net (relay2.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F48914CC7 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk) Received: from mail.plasmon.co.uk ([193.115.5.217]) by relay2.mail.uk.psi.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #3) id 10kuAS-0005Il-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:37:12 +0100 Received: by mail.plasmon.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 80256778.006603AC ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:34:16 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: PLASNOTES From: amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <80256778.006601D6.00@mail.plasmon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:34:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Wired memory "leaking" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I've got a problem that my KLD is "leaking" wired memory. > >It's not actually growing in size, vmstat -m shows a fairly constant allocation, >and certainly "high" isn't increasing. It's just that as I use it more, and more >memory gets wired down, and the system becomes unusable. [blah] Just for the archives, it was, predictably, a memory leak after all. My _vnops.c wasn't freeing the cn_pnbuf. Why Oh Why(tm) is everything else freed for you, but the path buffer is left to the poor, confused, FS to free? Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 12:13:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E7814F5F for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA77615; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:14:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:14:13 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Karl Denninger Cc: Nick Hibma , Graham Wheeler , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-Reply-To: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Karl Denninger wrote: > Diff follows. > > Note that this same config file (minus the "config" line that is deprecated > and used to specify where root, swap, etc was) built the kernel that runs > without problems a month or so back. > > I've looked through the commit logs and can't find anything that would lead > me to believe that major changes in the keyboard driver have been made. > 129,132c107,110 > < # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > < controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > < device atkbd0 at isa? irq 1 > < device psm0 at isa? irq 12 > --- > > # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse > > controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 If your config is the first one, then thats your problem. The AT keyboard and PS/2 mouse need to be attached to atkbdc?. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 12:17:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AEB14F5F for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA77627; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:15:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:15:34 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SOS] gdb is broken!!! In-Reply-To: <19990521212910.A66610@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > # uname -v > FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Sun May 16 23:51:55 EEST 1999 root@relay.ucb.crimea.ua:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHYRO > > How to repeat: Can you try this fix: Index: solib.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/gdb/gdb/solib.c,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 solib.c --- solib.c 1999/05/02 11:23:28 1.5 +++ solib.c 1999/05/17 09:26:14 @@ -1151,7 +1151,7 @@ SVR4, it has no name. For others (Solaris 2.3 for example), it does have a name, so we can no longer use a missing name to decide when to ignore it. */ - if (!IGNORE_FIRST_LINK_MAP_ENTRY (new -> lm)) + if (new && !IGNORE_FIRST_LINK_MAP_ENTRY (new -> lm)) { int errcode; char *buffer; -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 12:22:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles521.castles.com [208.214.165.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963FD1502C for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01832; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905211920.MAA01832@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mmap of a network buffer In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 14:15:20 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:20:54 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I really do not know how to describe the problem. But a friend here asks > me how to mmap a network buffer so that there is no need to copy the data > from user space to kernel space. We are not sure whether FreeBSD can > create a device file (mknod) for a network card, and if so, we can use the > mmap() call to do so because mmap() requires a file descriptor. We assume > that the file descriptor can be acquired by opening the network device. > If this is infeasible, is there another way to accomplish the same goal? Use sendfile() for zero-copy file transmission; in all other cases it's necessary to copy data into the kernel. Memory-mapping a network buffer makes no sense if you just think about it for a moment... There's also very little need for this under "real" circumstances; some simple tests have demonstrated we can sustain about 800Mbps throughput (UDP), and the bottleneck here seems to be checksum calculations, not copyin/out. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 12:23:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles521.castles.com [208.214.165.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6988B1502C for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01846; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905211921.MAA01846@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: amobbs@allstor-sw.co.uk Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wired memory "leaking" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 19:34:10 BST." <80256778.006601D6.00@mail.plasmon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:21:51 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >I've got a problem that my KLD is "leaking" wired memory. > > > >It's not actually growing in size, vmstat -m shows a fairly constant > allocation, >and certainly "high" isn't increasing. It's just that as I use it > more, and more >memory gets wired down, and the system becomes unusable. > [blah] > > Just for the archives, it was, predictably, a memory leak after all. My _vnops.c > wasn't freeing the cn_pnbuf. > > Why Oh Why(tm) is everything else freed for you, but the path buffer is left to > the poor, confused, FS to free? Because you may have reallocated it yourself (eg. following a symbolic link type object). At least, that's the only justification I've come up with. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 12:48:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2011D159C8 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id WAA86097; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:46:10 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:46:09 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Doug Rabson Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SOS] gdb is broken!!! Message-ID: <19990521224609.A82720@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Doug Rabson , hackers@freebsd.org References: <19990521212910.A66610@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:15:34PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fixed, thanks! Script started on Fri May 21 22:43:54 1999 relay# pwd /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/binutils/gdb relay# ./gdb /bin/cat ./cat.core GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... Core was generated by `cat'. Program terminated with signal 3, Quit. #0 0x8048b82 in ?? () (gdb) quit relay# exit Script done on Fri May 21 22:44:05 1999 3.2-ERRATA candidate? On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:15:34PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > # uname -v > > FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Sun May 16 23:51:55 EEST 1999 root@relay.ucb.crimea.ua:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHYRO > > > > How to repeat: > > Can you try this fix: > > Index: solib.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/contrib/gdb/gdb/solib.c,v > retrieving revision 1.5 > diff -u -r1.5 solib.c > --- solib.c 1999/05/02 11:23:28 1.5 > +++ solib.c 1999/05/17 09:26:14 > @@ -1151,7 +1151,7 @@ > SVR4, it has no name. For others (Solaris 2.3 for example), it > does have a name, so we can no longer use a missing name to > decide when to ignore it. */ > - if (!IGNORE_FIRST_LINK_MAP_ENTRY (new -> lm)) > + if (new && !IGNORE_FIRST_LINK_MAP_ENTRY (new -> lm)) > { > int errcode; > char *buffer; > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 > > -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 13:46:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.18.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8655A14EF0 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.6FCB0850@mailer.syr.edu>; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:46:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03661; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: Mike Smith Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mmap of a network buffer In-Reply-To: <199905211920.MAA01832@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I really do not know how to describe the problem. But a friend here asks > > me how to mmap a network buffer so that there is no need to copy the data > > from user space to kernel space. We are not sure whether FreeBSD can > > create a device file (mknod) for a network card, and if so, we can use the > > mmap() call to do so because mmap() requires a file descriptor. We assume > > that the file descriptor can be acquired by opening the network device. > > If this is infeasible, is there another way to accomplish the same goal? > > Use sendfile() for zero-copy file transmission; in all other cases it's > necessary to copy data into the kernel. Memory-mapping a network > buffer makes no sense if you just think about it for a moment... > > There's also very little need for this under "real" circumstances; some > simple tests have demonstrated we can sustain about 800Mbps throughput > (UDP), and the bottleneck here seems to be checksum calculations, not > copyin/out. > Oddly enough, I was just getting ready to implement something like this. Not because of copyin performance issues, but because async io for sockets could be done better if I didn't have to do a copyin. copyin has to have curproc==(proc with the buffer from which to copy) which means that I have to do a context switch for every socket buffer sized chunk (best case) or every io op (worst case). In my testing, I've been doing 3000 context switches/second just in verification of a simple configuration--real load will be 20-100x what current load is, and I'm not sure that 60,000-300,000 context switches/sec is desirable. My hope was to map the user's buffer into kernel space so that I could do event driven io on the socket without having to context switch to an aiod for every io operation. Is this really a bad idea? I am a little concerned about running out of kernel address space, but I don't think that's an immediate problem. Such an implementation would lend itself to doing zero-copy writes async writes with some frobbing of the send routines. It would also bypass some of the messing around done to do socket buffers--that is, there would not be a limit per se on socket buffering for writes since they would be mapped user space. One might want to put arbitrary limits in place to ensure that an unreasonable amount of memory isn't locked. Thoughts? -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 13:48:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8055F14EF0 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA70136; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA00742; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905212047.OAA00742@harmony.village.org> To: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! Cc: Nick Hibma , Graham Wheeler , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 10:53:06 CDT." <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> References: <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> <19990521104023.A396@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:47:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990521105306.A503@Denninger.Net> Karl Denninger writes: : Note that this same config file (minus the "config" line that is deprecated : and used to specify where root, swap, etc was) built the kernel that runs : without problems a month or so back. I'm seeing exactly the same thing with my -current of this morning. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 13:53:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A7E14EF0 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA70151; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA00781; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org> To: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:55 CDT." <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> References: <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:52:00 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> Karl Denninger writes: : Got it. I'm still having my problem. I have the same lines in my kernel that yokota-san asked you to check... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 13:54:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9650214EF0 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA70159; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA00807; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905212053.OAA00807@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! Cc: Karl Denninger , Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 14:52:00 MDT." <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org> References: <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org> <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:53:35 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org> Warner Losh writes: : I'm still having my problem. I have the same lines in my kernel that : yokota-san asked you to check... Never mind.... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 13:59:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F24114FE2 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA36783; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905212059.QAA36783@cs.rpi.edu> To: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Cc: crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server In-Reply-To: Message from Ville-Pertti Keinonen of "18 May 1999 11:37:03 +0300." <86g14u6afk.fsf@not.demophon.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:59:16 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > One of our users way able to reliably crash an NFS server 3 times today. > > I have since copied his program and have reliably crashed a seperate and > > unloaded machine with the exact same panic, "lockmgr: locking against > > myself". I check the recent DG patches that went in after -RELEASE and they > > Are you sure this is NFS related? > > I can certainly reliably reproduce that and other panics (reported in > kern/11629, includes a fix). Ok, well, it just happened again. I am certain that NFS is tripping this, as it is the only access to the box in question (yes, the panic may be elsewhere, but it comes through the NFS subsystem). After I received your email I applied the pathc and attempted my situation again. *wham*. It would be really good to get a stack trace from these crashes, but I cannot due to the error mentioned before: gdb -k kernel.1 vmcore.1 GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... IdlePTD 2998272 kernel symbol `gd_curpcb' not found. (kgdb) Any ideas? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 14:10:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC4614DCC for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06434; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:10:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:10:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199905212110.RAA06434@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu, will@iki.fi Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > gdb -k kernel.1 vmcore.1 > GNU gdb 4.18 > Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are > welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. > Type "show copying" to see the conditions. > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. > This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... > (no debugging symbols found)... > IdlePTD 2998272 > > kernel symbol `gd_curpcb' not found. > (kgdb) > > Any ideas? > You need to use gdb comes with 3.2-RELEASE. > -- > David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 > Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 > I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD > -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 14:48:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4A714C18 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA37348; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905212147.RAA37348@cs.rpi.edu> To: Luoqi Chen Cc: crossd@cs.rpi.edu, will@iki.fi, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server In-Reply-To: Message from Luoqi Chen of "Fri, 21 May 1999 17:10:06 EDT." <199905212110.RAA06434@lor.watermarkgroup.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:47:32 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > gdb -k kernel.1 vmcore.1 > > GNU gdb 4.18 > > Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are > > welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. > > Type "show copying" to see the conditions. > > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. > > This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... > > > (no debugging symbols found)... > IdlePTD 2998272 > > > > > kernel symbol `gd_curpcb' not found. > > (kgdb) > > > > Any ideas? > > > You need to use gdb comes with 3.2-RELEASE. I have tried gdb from 3.2-BETA, 3.2-RELEASE, and 3.2-STABLE, as well as the gdb that was built from the exact same CVS checkout as the kernel owas from, they all give the same error. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 15:24:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B4114BB8 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA13171 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:12:44 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:25:32 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA3AE.EE301C80.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolnyy Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: mmap of a network buffer Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:25:31 -0500 Organization: Ashley Laurent, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My hope was to map the user's buffer into kernel space so that I could do > event driven io on the socket without having to context switch to an aiod > for every io operation. Is this really a bad idea? I am a little > concerned about running out of kernel address space, but I don't think > that's an immediate problem. > > Such an implementation would lend itself to doing zero-copy writes async > writes with some frobbing of the send routines. It would also bypass > some > of the messing around done to do socket buffers--that is, there would not > be a limit per se on socket buffering for writes since they would be > mapped user space. One might want to put arbitrary limits in place to > ensure that an unreasonable amount of memory isn't locked. > > Thoughts? In my view, the problem can be described like this. Some applications need to process data from their VA space, on some devices. If the data is going to/from a file, it looks perfectly well to copy it into kernel buffers, since the kernel does caching and improves disk I/O performance. However, there are cases when the kernel can't be concerned with the data. For example, I have an encryption/compression processor on PCI board. For each operation, this processor needs two separated data buffers and performs the busmaster DMA. The user program is supposed to prepare the buffers and communicate their location to the kernel mode driver via IOCTL. What is more efficient - copy the data to/from the locked kernel buffers or lock the user buffers "in place" and do processing? (In my case, I don't even need to _remap_ the buffers, I only need physical addresses). I'd prefer the later, but I don't have sufficient FreeBSD knowledge to insist that I think right. There may be some principles of this O/S that I don't currently see that I violate by doing this. It would be nice if somebody could give an analysis of the problem. Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 16:19:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F9214DF2 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA59516; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:19:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905212319.QAA59516@apollo.backplane.com> To: Constantine Shkolnyy Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: RE: mmap of a network buffer References: <01BEA3AE.EE301C80.stan@osgroup.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :In my view, the problem can be described like this. : :Some applications need to process data from their VA space, on some :devices. If the data is going to/from a file, it looks perfectly :well to copy it into kernel buffers, since the kernel does caching :and improves disk I/O performance. However, there are cases when the :kernel can't be concerned with the data. For example, I have an :encryption/compression processor on PCI board. For each operation, :this processor needs two separated data buffers and performs the :busmaster DMA. The user program is supposed to prepare the buffers :and communicate their location to the kernel mode driver via IOCTL. : :What is more efficient - copy the data to/from the locked kernel :buffers or lock the user buffers "in place" and do processing? :(In my case, I don't even need to _remap_ the buffers, I only need :physical addresses). : :I'd prefer the later, but I don't have sufficient FreeBSD knowledge :to insist that I think right. There may be some principles of this :O/S that I don't currently see that I violate by doing this. : :It would be nice if somebody could give an analysis of the problem. : :Stan Well, all the system buffer paradigm does is wire the pages and associate them with a struct buf. You do not have to map the pages into KVM. It also usually write-protects pages in user space for the duration of the I/O. Even if the pages are mapped into KVM, the overhead is virtually nil if you do not actually touch the associated KVM. I don't think you would notice the difference between using the existing buffer code and rolling something custom. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 16:43:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0061615024 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id SAA16314; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521184316.A16297@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:43:16 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Warner Losh Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! References: <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> <19990521103244.A344@Denninger.Net> <199905211641.BAA12142@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905212052.OAA00781@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:52:00PM -0600 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:52:00PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> Karl Denninger writes: > : Got it. > > I'm still having my problem. I have the same lines in my kernel that > yokota-san asked you to check... > > Warner Well, the change to the atkb device from binding the keyboard to isa fixed it for me. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 19:42: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFF814F44 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id VAA16665 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:42:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521214202.A16648@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:42:02 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I've gotten my Ensoniq card installed and the driver configured, and it works - sorta. mpg123 has been the recommended "playback" mode for MPG files. Well and fine. Except for one small problem: If the system starts taking interrupts, I get "clicks", roughly consonant with the interrupts, in the output. They're solidly correlated with disk activity. Now I could see if the system was busy for a long period of time that it could "get behind" whatever buffering is in the sound board, and you'd be screwed (due to data starvation). But this looks to be something different - it looks like there is NO buffering on the card at all, and that even the interrupt traffic causes stream disruption in the output. This can't be right - or is it? If it is, then any I/O during playing a sound file of some kind is going to lead to unacceptable interruptions and poor sound quality. Mpg123 seems to consume about 12% of the CPU when its running - I have a Pentium Pro 200 in this box. "vmstat" shows a 0.12 system load during a run, so I should be well within the boundaries. "mpg123's" buffering option (-b) doesn't affect the display of this problem in any appreciable way. Is this my hardware? This is a rather old Soundscape board, but I can't imagine they've changed that much. If the answer is to use a different card (one that has some buffering internally!) that's ok with me - what should I install instead? I DID note that the Ensoniq driver seems to want the Soundscape board on IRQ 9. That's a rather problematic interrupt to use in my experience in the past - is this part of the issue (the disks are on Adaptec PCI controllers)? Ideas? As it stands the decoder is useless in any environment where the system might actually have to do something while it's running. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 19:44: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799EC152B4 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id VAA16676 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:43:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990521214359.B16648@Denninger.Net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:43:59 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Suggestion... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One other suggestion, while I'm at it. The "dgb" driver has been marked "alpha quality" for a LONG time. I've had a fax server running on a PC/Xe 8 port card (64k shared RAM) for well over a year on one of these cards - and have NEVER had a single problem with it. That server gets a LOT of extremely heavy use, and if there were driver problems I would have found them by now. I'd suggest that someone drop the "alpha" byline on that one - its definitely stable :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 19:58:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-2.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5707F1529D for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:58:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id TAA05826; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990521195819.13574@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 19:58:19 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion... References: <19990521214359.B16648@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19990521214359.B16648@Denninger.Net>; from Karl Denninger on Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:43:59PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger scribbled this message on May 21: > One other suggestion, while I'm at it. > > The "dgb" driver has been marked "alpha quality" for a LONG time. > > I've had a fax server running on a PC/Xe 8 port card (64k shared RAM) > for well over a year on one of these cards - and have NEVER had a single > problem with it. That server gets a LOT of extremely heavy use, and > if there were driver problems I would have found them by now. > > I'd suggest that someone drop the "alpha" byline on that one - its > definitely stable :-) me too, I've been using it to connect my Ricochet modem to my server.. the 2port board I have doesn't have problems with the Ricochet's over clocking of the serial port by at LEAST 4% (2k+ at 19.2kbps) when I'm running the modem at 115.2kbps (actually ~120kbps+... dgb0: PC/Xe 64/8K (windowed) dgb0 at 0x320-0x323 maddr 0xd0000 msize 8192 on isa dgb0: 2 ports -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 20: 8: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B4814DA6 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA69634; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905220307.UAA69634@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server References: <199905180532.BAA72781@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :First, I would like to take this opportunity the thank Matt Dillon for :his excellent work with NFS/TCP. Wow, way to go :) : :Now on to the real problem :) : :One of our users way able to reliably crash an NFS server 3 times today. :I have since copied his program and have reliably crashed a seperate and :unloaded machine with the exact same panic, "lockmgr: locking against :myself". I check the recent DG patches that went in after -RELEASE and they :do not appear to affect this part of the code. I have a full debugging :kernel compiled, yet when I issue a 'gdb -k kernel.0 vmcore.0' (where :kernel.0 is either the debugging or strip-debug kernel), I receive :an unresolved symbol error for "gd_curpcb", so I cannot provide additional :information at this time. : :In the morning I will try to distill the code down to a more potent :test-case. :-- :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Another possibly re: debugging. If you compile up a kernel with options DDB and options BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER, the kernel will break into DDB when the panic occurs. You can then issue a 'trace' command to get a backtrace. This may be good enough to determine what the problem is because the cause of a 'lockmgr: locking against myself' panic tends to be entirely contained within the current stack trace. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 20:39: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D924A14F44 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA40251; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905220338.XAA40251@cs.rpi.edu> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server In-Reply-To: Message from Matthew Dillon of "Fri, 21 May 1999 20:07:54 PDT." <199905220307.UAA69634@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:38:56 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Another possibly re: debugging. If you compile up a kernel with > options DDB and options BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER, the kernel will break into > DDB when the panic occurs. You can then issue a 'trace' command to get > a backtrace. > > This may be good enough to determine what the problem is because > the cause of a 'lockmgr: locking against myself' panic tends to be > entirely contained within the current stack trace. All my kernels are now DDB kernels :) But since I do almost all of my work remotely they are DDB_UNATTENDED, and the machine I am panic-ing is not on the serial console server (sorry). I do have another question about DDB, I unstalled -STABLE as of today (from releng3.fre...) and I compiled the kernel with DDB, and DDB_UNATTENDED per usual. Now when I C-A-E to get into the debugger and type 'panic' it drops me at another debugging prompt. If I type panic from that I get the real thing, any ideas? My next email will hopefully have the stack trace for this panic. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 21 21:14:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA8514D02 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:14:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA69868; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:14:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905220414.VAA69868@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server References: <199905220338.XAA40251@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> entirely contained within the current stack trace. :All my kernels are now DDB kernels :) But since I do almost all of :my work remotely they are DDB_UNATTENDED, and the machine I am panic-ing :is not on the serial console server (sorry). I do have another question :about DDB, I unstalled -STABLE as of today (from releng3.fre...) and I :compiled the kernel with DDB, and DDB_UNATTENDED per usual. Now when I :C-A-E to get into the debugger and type 'panic' it drops me at another :debugging prompt. If I type panic from that I get the real thing, any ideas? : :My next email will hopefully have the stack trace for this panic. :-- :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Panic has a counter. The first time it is called it tries to drop into the debugger. The second time it is called it reboots the machine for real. When you control-alt-escape, you have not yet called panic for the first time, so when you panic manually from the DDB prompt it drops you into the debugger again. Second time's the charm! Since the debugger repeats the previous command if you just hit return, I've gotten used to simply typing 'panic ...' -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 2:30:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D80A154E3 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA35327; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:32:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:32:17 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server In-Reply-To: <199905220414.VAA69868@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 May 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> entirely contained within the current stack trace. > :All my kernels are now DDB kernels :) But since I do almost all of > :my work remotely they are DDB_UNATTENDED, and the machine I am panic-ing > :is not on the serial console server (sorry). I do have another question > :about DDB, I unstalled -STABLE as of today (from releng3.fre...) and I > :compiled the kernel with DDB, and DDB_UNATTENDED per usual. Now when I > :C-A-E to get into the debugger and type 'panic' it drops me at another > :debugging prompt. If I type panic from that I get the real thing, any ideas? > : > :My next email will hopefully have the stack trace for this panic. > :-- > :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > > Panic has a counter. The first time it is called it tries to drop into the > debugger. The second time it is called it reboots the machine for real. > When you control-alt-escape, you have not yet called panic for the > first time, so when you panic manually from the DDB prompt it drops you > into the debugger again. Second time's the charm! > > Since the debugger repeats the previous command if you just > hit return, I've gotten used to simply typing > 'panic ...' I use that too :-). For the alpha, I put in a 'halt' command (also linked to remote-gdb's kill operation) which drops the machine back to the firmware which is handy if you don't care about buffers not being synced. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 5:57:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB1714C05; Sat, 22 May 1999 05:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id PAA83366; Sat, 22 May 1999 15:57:02 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:57:01 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: release engineer , compat22 author Cc: others Subject: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: release engineer , compat22 author , others Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Environment ----------- - 3.2-STABLE (CD-ROM version or built without -DWANT_AOUT) - 4.0-CURRENT (built without -DWANT_AOUT) Problem ------- Fact: ld.so (rtld-aout) is built as part of ``legacy-build'' and then installed as part of ``legacy-install''. In order to build it, one needs to pass -DWANT_AOUT to the ``make world'' process. This will build a.out libraries and legacy boot as well. Fact: compatXX distributions depend on ld.so. Problem: Releases are built (see src/release/Makefile) by calling the ``make world'' without -DWANT_AOUT, thus making compatXX distributions useless. Possible Solutions ------------------ 1. Add -DWANT_AOUT to src/release/Makefile. But in this case release will also contain (besides ld.so) a lot of unnecessary items: legacy boot files and a.out versions of current libraries. 2. Make -DWANT_AOUT build only the basic a.out support (ld.so) for binary compatibility with earlier releases and pass -DWANT_AOUT in src/release/Makefile when calling ``make world''. The necessary libraries could then be built and installed by passing corresponding -DCOMPATxx options to ``make world'' process, or by selecting desired compatXX distributions, if installing from the release media (FTP, CDROM). 3. Totally remove a.out support and push ld.so into all compatXX distributions. By the way, this is promised in src/Makefile: # If -DWANT_AOUT is specified, a `make world' with OBJFORMAT=elf will # update the legacy support for aout. This includes all libraries, ld.so # and boot objects. This part of build should be regarded as # deprecated and you should _not_ expect to be able to do this past the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ # release of 3.1. You have exactly one major release to move entirely ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ # to elf. References ---------- http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=11828 Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 6:23:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A258A14DD6; Sat, 22 May 1999 06:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id QAA88379; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:23:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:23:42 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: compat22 author Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: compat22 author , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>; from Ruslan Ermilov on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:57:01PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:57:01PM +0300, I wrote: > Environment > ----------- > > - 3.2-STABLE (CD-ROM version or built without -DWANT_AOUT) > - 4.0-CURRENT (built without -DWANT_AOUT) > > [...] > 3. Totally remove a.out support and push ld.so into all compatXX > distributions. By the way, this is promised in src/Makefile: > [...] Just noticed David's commits into HEAD... ;-) David, you have forgotten to put ld.so into compat22!!!! And would it be possible to MFC this stuff and add an 3.2-ERRATA entry... Thanks, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 6:35: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5591A14D3D for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 06:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA23558; Sat, 22 May 1999 14:34:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA70999; Sat, 22 May 1999 14:33:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905221333.OAA70999@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 21:43:59 CDT." <19990521214359.B16648@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:33:51 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > One other suggestion, while I'm at it. > > The "dgb" driver has been marked "alpha quality" for a LONG time. > > I've had a fax server running on a PC/Xe 8 port card (64k shared RAM) > for well over a year on one of these cards - and have NEVER had a single > problem with it. That server gets a LOT of extremely heavy use, and > if there were driver problems I would have found them by now. > > I'd suggest that someone drop the "alpha" byline on that one - its > definitely stable :-) I plan on doing some work on it and the dgm driver. They're almost the same and should be merged. They both violate style(9) in almost every way too :-[ I know of only one person with an Xem card (dgm driver), but he's promised to send me the specs by snail mail. Once I get them, I'll start the work. Let's leave the `alpha' there for a little longer :-) > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 7:24:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD71214BF4 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 07:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10lChA-0006bS-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:24:12 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Logging "promiscuous mode disabled" Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:24:12 +0200 Message-ID: <25385.927383052@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, Are there issues that make the following apparently innocuous change to the handling of turning off promiscuous mode a bad idea? It doesn't seem to me like it'd break anything, and I'd like to know for sure when it's turned off -- it'd mean I don't have to count up the number of "promiscous mode enabled" messages and make sure that that number matches the number of applications I've run and subsequently terminated. Thanks, Sheldon. Index: if.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/net/if.c,v retrieving revision 1.70 diff -u -d -r1.70 if.c --- if.c 1999/04/28 11:37:32 1.70 +++ if.c 1999/05/22 14:18:45 @@ -828,6 +828,8 @@ if (--ifp->if_pcount > 0) return (0); ifp->if_flags &= ~IFF_PROMISC; + log(LOG_INFO, "%s%d: promiscuous mode disabled\n", + ifp->if_name, ifp->if_unit); } ifr.ifr_flags = ifp->if_flags; error = (*ifp->if_ioctl)(ifp, SIOCSIFFLAGS, (caddr_t)&ifr); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 7:44:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5458714BF4 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 07:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id JAA20454; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:42:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990522094253.A20449@Denninger.Net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:42:53 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Brian Somers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion... References: <19990521214359.B16648@Denninger.Net> <199905221333.OAA70999@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905221333.OAA70999@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 02:33:51PM +0100 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 02:33:51PM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > > One other suggestion, while I'm at it. > > > > The "dgb" driver has been marked "alpha quality" for a LONG time. > > > > I've had a fax server running on a PC/Xe 8 port card (64k shared RAM) > > for well over a year on one of these cards - and have NEVER had a single > > problem with it. That server gets a LOT of extremely heavy use, and > > if there were driver problems I would have found them by now. > > > > I'd suggest that someone drop the "alpha" byline on that one - its > > definitely stable :-) > > I plan on doing some work on it and the dgm driver. They're almost > the same and should be merged. They both violate style(9) in almost > every way too :-[ > > I know of only one person with an Xem card (dgm driver), but he's > promised to send me the specs by snail mail. Once I get them, I'll > start the work. > > Let's leave the `alpha' there for a little longer :-) What are you planning on doing with it? Other than DDB support I can't imagine what could be *added* to the driver; it is one of those "just works" things right now. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 7:50:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6647E14E0B for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 07:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 20396 invoked by uid 1001); 22 May 1999 14:50:20 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990522094253.A20449@Denninger.Net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: Suggestion... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-99 Karl Denninger wrote: > On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 02:33:51PM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: >> > One other suggestion, while I'm at it. >> > >> > The "dgb" driver has been marked "alpha quality" for a LONG time. >> > >> > I've had a fax server running on a PC/Xe 8 port card (64k shared RAM) >> > for well over a year on one of these cards - and have NEVER had a single >> > problem with it. That server gets a LOT of extremely heavy use, and >> > if there were driver problems I would have found them by now. >> > >> > I'd suggest that someone drop the "alpha" byline on that one - its >> > definitely stable :-) >> >> I plan on doing some work on it and the dgm driver. They're almost >> the same and should be merged. They both violate style(9) in almost >> every way too :-[ >> >> I know of only one person with an Xem card (dgm driver), but he's >> promised to send me the specs by snail mail. Once I get them, I'll >> start the work. >> >> Let's leave the `alpha' there for a little longer :-) > > What are you planning on doing with it? Other than DDB support I can't > imagine what could be *added* to the driver; it is one of those "just > works" things right now. Why not merge the two into a *new* driver? Once it's running at an acceptable level, drop support for the two old drivers. That way if something breaks, the current users still have the one that works. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 8:24:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098491502E for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 08:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.247]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5657; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:24:21 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00999; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:24:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <25385.927383052@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:24:32 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: RE: Logging "promiscuous mode disabled" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-99 Sheldon Hearn wrote: > It doesn't seem to me like it'd break anything, and I'd like to know > for sure when it's turned off -- it'd mean I don't have to count up the > number of "promiscous mode enabled" messages and make sure that that > number matches the number of applications I've run and subsequently > terminated. Sounds like a good idea to me Sheldon... Would make intrusion detection easier, etc etc =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 9: 9:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B3114CE9 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:09:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (d60-077.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.77]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA83864 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:09:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA60685 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:09:46 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:09:46 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522090946.A60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>; from Ruslan Ermilov on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:23:42PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just noticed David's commits into HEAD... ;-) > David, you have forgotten to put ld.so into compat22!!!! No I didn't (and I wish people would stop accusing me of forgetting stuff!). For some reason, I am now having problems with remove CVS commits. :-( -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 9:18:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD2214C24 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (d60-077.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.77]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA83904 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA60734 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:18:44 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:18:44 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522091844.B60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>; from Ruslan Ermilov on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:57:01PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Problem > ------- > > Fact: ld.so (rtld-aout) is built as part of ``legacy-build'' and then > installed as part of ``legacy-install''. In order to build it, > one needs to pass -DWANT_AOUT to the ``make world'' process. > This will build a.out libraries and legacy boot as well. Ok, I'm going to blow up here... People PLEASE drop this topic. It is being addressed -- maybe not as fast as people like, but it is being addressed. I really, REALLY don't understand why all of a sudden this problem is comming up when the compat22 distribution was made a while ago. Also, I install the compat* distributions and forget about them. I've never had ld.so problems. I really don't understand why so many people want to reinstall the compatXX files with every ``make world''. But I guess we do support such functionality, so someone should use it. So are people deleting ld.so before evey ``make world''. I also never make the a.out libs. Remember any a.out libs made with "WANT_AOUT" will be 3.2 libs with the same functional contents as the ELF ones. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 9:20:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275BF14C24 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (d60-077.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.77]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA83918; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA60762; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:20:26 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:20:26 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: ru@ucb.crimea.ua Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>; from Ruslan Ermilov on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:23:42PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And would it be possible to MFC this stuff After it is tested in -CURRENT first. > and add an 3.2-ERRATA entry... Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 10:42: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 502C114F3B for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:41:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id TAA18395; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:21:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09140; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:12:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905221412.QAA09140@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Source code of SGI XFS In-Reply-To: <199905211616.JAA00959@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "May 21, 1999 9:16:34 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:12:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: newton@internode.com.au, pasha@sim.net.ua, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Mike Smith wrote ... > > Pavel Narozhniy wrote: > > > > > Does anybody heard about SGI releasing XFS source code? > > > > Yup, they're doing it. > > > > I would guess that FreeBSD would need a fairly thorough revamp of its > > handling of kernel memory allocation before XFS would be fully usable, > > though: XFS buffer management is pretty full-on. > > Read "Irix has shitty block I/O support so XFS has to do it all itself". > > > The filesystem maintains its own pool of kernel buffers separate from > > the VM page cache which it uses for aggregating I/O transfers (so that > > if, say, you make 5 separate out-of-order I/Os which just happen to > > blanket a contiguous region of a disk object, XFS will collapse them > > into a single I/O; > > We do this too; it's called I/O clustering, but it's done below the > filesystem so that anyone and everyone can benefit from it. The most interesting thing of XFS is it's GRIO I'd say. | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 10:42:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7429A150E4 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:41:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id TAA18399; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:21:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16172; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:15:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905221715.TAA16172@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: ifconfig: changing mac address In-Reply-To: <82719.926767463@verdi.nethelp.no> from "sthaug@nethelp.no" at "May 15, 1999 1:24:23 pm" To: sthaug@nethelp.no Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:15:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, Steve.Gailey@db.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As sthaug@nethelp.no wrote ... > > Things like DECnet set the MAC address. Don't ask me why though. > > Because there is a one to one correspondence between the DECnet (Phase > IV) address and the MAC address. Ie. if you specify the DECnet address, > you have also implicitly specified the MAC address. Ah, that rings a (faint) bell. I only remember because it bit a colleague of mine once. They had a machine sitting behind a bridge and assumed that would keep their traffic local. Did not work too well because the bridge had been programmed to block the default MAC address, and not the one that DECnet made out of it. | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 10:50: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B58914D93 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA22503; Sat, 22 May 1999 11:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA06777; Sat, 22 May 1999 11:49:41 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:49:41 -0600 Message-Id: <199905221749.LAA06777@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Ladavac Marino , "'Joe Abley'" , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <199905192342.QAA44260@apollo.backplane.com> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <199905192342.QAA44260@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : [ gps talk ] > :... > > I've been very impressed with the newer ( last 5 months ) Garmin > handhelds. The older ones only had 8 channel receivers. The newer > ones have 12 channel receivers sensitive enough that the units often > work indoors. FWIW, the Garmin 12XL is a *very* nice unit. I've used it for almost 2 years now (work related), and have nothing but high-praise to speak about it. The Garmin 12 is also nice, but does not allow for an external antenna. (We use them for clock synchronization at a macro-level of +-1sec, which is adequate for our applications.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 10:58:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0FD14D93 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:58:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id UAA39943; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:58:01 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:58:01 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "David O'Brien" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522205801.A39510@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522090946.A60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522090946.A60647@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 09:09:46AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 09:09:46AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > Just noticed David's commits into HEAD... ;-) > > David, you have forgotten to put ld.so into compat22!!!! > > No I didn't (and I wish people would stop accusing me of forgetting > stuff!). For some reason, I am now having problems with remove CVS > commits. :-( > Sorry, I didn't know that. I just saw the following: obrien 1999/05/21 11:36:00 PDT Modified files: lib/compat/compat22 Makefile Log: Add usr/libexec/ld.so Revision Changes Path 1.2 +4 -2 src/lib/compat/compat22/Makefile -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 11: 2:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666C514D93; Sat, 22 May 1999 11:01:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id VAA41205; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:01:32 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:01:32 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: obrien@freebsd.org Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990522210132.B39510@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: obrien@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers References: <19990522155701.A67458@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522162342.A85793@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 09:20:26AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 09:20:26AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > And would it be possible to MFC this stuff > > After it is tested in -CURRENT first. > > > and add an 3.2-ERRATA entry... > > Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil > the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? > Sorry again. I built the release myself, and in my environment (3.2-STABLE, make release) compat22 distribution doesn't contain ld.so. -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 15: 7:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD25014EE7 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 15:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA00244; Sat, 22 May 1999 15:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA08313; Sat, 22 May 1999 15:05:38 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA17549; Sat, 22 May 99 15:05:27 PDT Message-Id: <37472A22.84F29CFC@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:05:22 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams Cc: Matthew Dillon , Ladavac Marino , "'Joe Abley'" , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS receivers for xntpd (off-topic) References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179609@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <199905192342.QAA44260@apollo.backplane.com> <199905221749.LAA06777@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams wrote: > > > : [ gps talk ] > > :... > > > > I've been very impressed with the newer ( last 5 months ) Garmin > > handhelds. The older ones only had 8 channel receivers. The newer > > ones have 12 channel receivers sensitive enough that the units often > > work indoors. > > FWIW, the Garmin 12XL is a *very* nice unit. I've used it for almost 2 > years now (work related), and have nothing but high-praise to speak > about it. > > The Garmin 12 is also nice, but does not allow for an external antenna. > > (We use them for clock synchronization at a macro-level of +-1sec, which > is adequate for our applications.) My GPS-II is the Garmin 12 in a cooler package, with an external antenna. It's a great little unit, and acquires position quite quickly. The II Plus is still available in the same package for about $250, and is feature idential to the 12XL. Garmin can't be beat in GPS. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 16:39:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from medulla.hippocampus.net (medulla.hippocampus.net [204.138.241.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7076414D43 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 16:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@netstor.com) Received: from localhost (marc@localhost) by medulla.hippocampus.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA13173 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:45:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Nicholas X-Sender: marc@medulla.hippocampus.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ISA LM78 driver help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello there... I have an application where I require access to an LM78 "health monitor" chip on a certain type of industrial PC motherboard we use. Unfortunately, the LM78 is tied to ISA and not I2C/SMBus. Can anyone recommend a good framework to start writing a driver for this beastie? I've never actually written a driver before (*gulp*), so please treat me gently ;-) In essense, the chip sits at 0x290 with an address line at 0x290+5 and a data line at 0x290+6. I'd be happy writing a program that merely peeks and pokes in that address area, rather than a fully-fledged driver... TIA. -marc ---------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas netSTOR Technologies, Inc. http://www.netstor.com 1.877.464.4776 416.979.9000 fax: 416.979.8223 cell: 416.346.9255 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 17: 3:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp [133.30.50.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A985214DBC for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from takawata@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp) Received: from shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09020; Sun, 23 May 1999 08:54:09 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199905222354.IAA09020@shidahara1.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp> To: Marc Nicholas Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISA LM78 driver help Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:54:08 +0900 From: Takanori Watanabe Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Marc Nicholas wrote: >Hello there... > >I have an application where I require access to an LM78 "health monitor" >chip on a certain type of industrial PC motherboard we use. Unfortunately, >the LM78 is tied to ISA and not I2C/SMBus. > >Can anyone recommend a good framework to start writing a driver for this >beastie? I've never actually written a driver before (*gulp*), so please >treat me gently ;-) > >In essense, the chip sits at 0x290 with an address line at 0x290+5 and a >data line at 0x290+6. I'd be happy writing a program that merely peeks and >pokes in that address area, rather than a fully-fledged driver... > >TIA. > I have two imprementation about it. One is userland imprementation based on code by Shimizu-san. It is available at http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/examples/xmbmon104.new.tar.gz And I wrote experimental kernel driver for LM78. http://www.planet.sci.kobe-u.ac.jp/~takawata/smbus/sys/lm-dist.tar.gz Regards, Takanori Watanabe Public Key Key fingerprint = 2C 51 E2 78 2C E1 C5 2D 0F F1 20 A3 11 3A 62 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 17:25:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3473B15031 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01996; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA49453; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230025.RAA49453@vashon.polstra.com> To: damian@cablenet.net Subject: Re: dlopen failure In-Reply-To: <37458FF0.FC9B24C8@cablenet.net> References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <37458FF0.FC9B24C8@cablenet.net>, Damian Hamill wrote: > I have found the problem and it is a problem with make. By chance I did > an ls -l of the directory and noticed the shared object was only 371 > bytes and thought nooooooooo that can't be right. Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad it's solved now. > My makefile sez. > > mysqlacc.so : mysqlacc.o > ld -Bshareable -o $@ $< -u _floor ../../lib/libV.a ... {other libs} By the way, don't use "ld -Bshareable" to build shared libraries. Use "cc -shared". There are some special .o files from /usr/lib that need to be linked in, and "cc -shared" will do that for you automatically. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 20:26:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-26.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F98614F95 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00491 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:26:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: IPv6 and -current? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Out of a perhaps morbid curiosity, I'm somewhat interested in setting up an IPv6 stack on my computer. From what I can tell there are two well supported stacks. Kame and Inria, and both support 2.2.8, Kame also supports 3.x. Has anyone tried to port either to -current? I tried playing around with the Kame release for 3.0, and it generated quite a few rejects... - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 21: 4: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085D614BE4 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA52919; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905230403.AAA52919@cs.rpi.edu> To: Marc Nicholas Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: ISA LM78 driver help In-Reply-To: Message from Marc Nicholas of "Sat, 22 May 1999 19:45:49 EDT." Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:03:45 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have done simple drivers before. I would be interested in working with you on this (it would benefit me as well). If you couild provide a web site with more information that would help too. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 22:45:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu (csgrad.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4121D14C42; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cstruble@vt.edu) Received: from localhost (cstruble@localhost) by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA10800; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csgrad.cs.vt.edu: cstruble owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 01:45:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Craig A. Struble" X-Sender: cstruble@csgrad.cs.vt.edu To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need help recovering from major mistake Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I just made a major mistake with my FreeBSD drive that I hope I can recover from. Not thinking too far ahead, I tried to install OS-BS on a dangerously dedicated FreeBSD drive. This had the unfortunate side effect of wiping out both the boot code and disklabel from the drive. I'd like to restore them, but I don't have a printout of what the disklabel used to be. Therein lies the challenge. Using my FreeBSD CD-ROMs, I've been able to go into fixit mode and mount the root filesystem of the drive, but I'm not sure where to go from there. How can I figure out what my old disklabel was? Is there some way I can search the raw disk for the locations of the file systems? Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me directly with your responses as I'm not subscribed to the FreeBSD mailing lists. See ya later, Craig -- Craig Struble (cstruble@vt.edu) Ph.D. Candidate, Virginia Tech http://www.acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ cstruble@vt.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 22 23:30: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B952E14C32; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA54120; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905230629.CAA54120@cs.rpi.edu> To: "Craig A. Struble" Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Need help recovering from major mistake In-Reply-To: Message from "Craig A. Struble" of "Sun, 23 May 1999 01:45:18 EDT." Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 02:29:46 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Using my FreeBSD CD-ROMs, I've been able to go into fixit mode and mount > the root filesystem of the drive, but I'm not sure where to go from there. > How can I figure out what my old disklabel was? Is there some way I can > search the raw disk for the locations of the file systems? > > Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me directly with your > responses as I'm not subscribed to the FreeBSD mailing lists. I had NT kindly overwrite my disklable once, I got arround the problem by scanning the disk for the magic numbers that signifies the start of a FreeBSD sub-partition. You then have to do some math based on the raw block numbers to figure out the start and lenght. you are lucky in that FreeBSD will tell you if you get the lenght wrong (you need to get the start correct); it tells you the correct length. After you have that information go into 'disklabel -e disk' and re-enter the values. I no longer have the program, but the magic values to look for are easily gotten by examining the the first block or 2 from a subpartition. 'dd bs=512 if=/dev/rdsk count=2 | less' did the trick for me. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 0:48: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030C314C4A for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id KAA79794 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:47:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:47:23 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: [Q] disklabel magic number Message-ID: <19990523104723.A79340@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Hackers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Just out of curiosity, is there any hidden meaning of #define DISKMAGIC ((u_int32_t)0x82564557) /* The disk magic number */ Or is it just a random number? -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 1: 0:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80FD214C81 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA09670 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:00:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA33628 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:45:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:45:55 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have... Message-ID: <19990523094555.A33370@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ! Am currently discussing FreeBSD vs. OpenBSD in private e-mail. What make OpenBSD so "secure" ? Or can this kind of security be reproduced with FreeBSD ports ? I think of tools like: bjorb - secure TCP relay software, http://www.hitachi-ms.co.jp/bjorb/ bro - Bro is a system for detecting Network Intruders in real-time by the guys that brought you tcpdump, libpcap, and flex cfs - This is CFS, Matt Blaze's Cryptographic File System. It provides transparent encryption and decryption of selected directory trees. It is implemented as a user-level NFS server and thus does not require any kernel modifications. Under FreeBSD, the mount command for the CFS tree must include "-o port=3049,nfsv2". fwtk - The TIS Firewall Toolkit is a set of programs and configuration practices designed to facilitate the building of network firewalls. skip - IP-Level Cryptography, Secure every application with one protocol. http://skip.incog.com stunnel - The stunnel program is designed to work as SSL encryption wrapper between remote client and local (inetd-startable) or remote server. stunnel can be used to add SSL functionality to commonly used inetd daemons like POP-2, POP-3 and IMAP servers without any changes in the programs' code. tcp_wrapper - With this package you can monitor and filter incoming requests for the SYSTAT, FINGER, FTP, TELNET, RLOGIN, RSH, EXEC, TFTP, TALK, and other network services. vscan - McAfee's evaluation VirusScan for FreeBSD, provides immediate scanning of MS-DOS files hosted on FreeBSD Unix systems. Could somebody please explain ? -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 1:33: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3C114D43 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.6]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA36AA; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:33:04 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA89231; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:33:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990523094555.A33370@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:33:20 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Andreas Klemm Subject: RE: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Andreas =) On 23-May-99 Andreas Klemm wrote: > Am currently discussing FreeBSD vs. OpenBSD in private e-mail. > > What make OpenBSD so "secure" ? Or can this kind of security be > reproduced with FreeBSD ports ? I think of tools like: Ye missed one of the most important things: auditing of the sourcecode. The OpenBSD team does a lot wrt auditing of the complete sourcetree, but then the question is: is this valid concern or is this pure paranoia. OpenBSD does a lot of valid changes but borders (and sometimes crosses thta border) on paranoia, wrt code. A lot of the security tools can be get from the ports, but the true security of a system lies in the eye of the admin. I have known admins whom I would never trust mission critical security systems to. HTH, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 1:41: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9C314E84 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.6]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA6FC4; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:40:55 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA89722; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:41:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:41:12 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Alex Zepeda Subject: RE: IPv6 and -current? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > Out of a perhaps morbid curiosity, I'm somewhat interested in setting up > an IPv6 stack on my computer. From what I can tell there are two well > supported stacks. Kame and Inria, and both support 2.2.8, Kame also > supports 3.x. Has anyone tried to port either to -current? I tried > playing around with the Kame release for 3.0, and it generated quite a > few rejects... I am currently merging KAME with CURRENT and it's a lovely adventure to embark on... One can best port 3.x to CURRENT since the internal changes from 2.2.x to 3.x are great and would merely duplicate work... If yer interested Alex, we could work together on this and prepare a CURRENT-KAME solution since I believe the time has come to start work in CURRENT on IPv6. I already mailed Itojun-san about the status of the KAME/Inria merger and hope to hear from him soon. HTH, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 1:56:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A647814D74 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 14448 invoked by uid 1001); 23 May 1999 08:56:41 +0000 (GMT) To: asmodai@wxs.nl Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 23 May 1999 10:33:20 +0200 (CEST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:56:40 +0200 Message-ID: <14446.927449800@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The OpenBSD team does a lot wrt auditing of the complete sourcetree, but > then the question is: is this valid concern or is this pure paranoia. > OpenBSD does a lot of valid changes but borders (and sometimes crosses thta > border) on paranoia, wrt code. Given the number of postings to BUGTRAQ about array overflows and stack smashing, I think it's relevant to ask whether it possible to be *too* paranoid here. Personally, I think what the OpenBSD folks are doing is very important. > A lot of the security tools can be get from the ports, but the true > security of a system lies in the eye of the admin. I have known admins whom > I would never trust mission critical security systems to. "The true security of a system" depends on the operating system itself, the applications, *and* the admin. You can be a very good and security conscious admin - but it won't help you much if the operating system is Windows 98. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 2:14:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA0514F5B for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.6]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4C88; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:14:16 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA89783; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:14:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <14446.927449800@verdi.nethelp.no> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:14:34 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: sthaug@nethelp.no Subject: RE: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, andreas@klemm.gtn.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-May-99 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> The OpenBSD team does a lot wrt auditing of the complete sourcetree, but >> then the question is: is this valid concern or is this pure paranoia. >> OpenBSD does a lot of valid changes but borders (and sometimes crosses >> that border) on paranoia, wrt code. > > Given the number of postings to BUGTRAQ about array overflows and stack > smashing, I think it's relevant to ask whether it possible to be *too* > paranoid here. Personally, I think what the OpenBSD folks are doing is > very important. Paranoia/security and freedom of use are opposites on the balance of use. If you make so much security restrictions to a system it's bound to make it less enjoyable where it concerns freedom. >> A lot of the security tools can be get from the ports, but the true >> security of a system lies in the eye of the admin. I have known admins >> whom I would never trust mission critical security systems to. > > "The true security of a system" depends on the operating system itself, > the applications, *and* the admin. You can be a very good and security > conscious admin - but it won't help you much if the operating system is > Windows 98. Correct there Steinaur, I left those other two out. But then the admin most certainly knows that he has to replace that Win98 box with FreeBSD ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 2:25:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from well.apcs.com.au (well.apcs.com.au [203.41.122.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B792314E59 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@well.apcs.com.au) Received: (from keith@localhost) by well.apcs.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA00548; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:19:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990515091422.A17112@ipass.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:19:25 +1000 (EST) From: Keith Anderson To: Randall Hopper Subject: RE: FreeBSD/USENIX Ocean Cruise Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All Has this idea sunk ? Keith On 15-May-99 Randall Hopper wrote: > http://www.geekcruises.com/ > > What a cool idea. > > Maybe we'll see a FreeBSD/USENIX conference on-deck someday. > > Randall > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD." ** The thing I like most about Windows 98 is... ** You can download FreeBSD with it! ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Keith Anderson Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. Date: 23-May-99 Time: 19:18:19 Satelite Service 64K to 2Meg This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- What's the similarity between an air conditioner and a computer? They both stop working when you open windows. ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 3:33:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDC714C11 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA26259; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:11:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01566; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:10:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905231010.LAA01566@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: Karl Denninger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brian Somers Subject: Re: Suggestion... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 May 1999 10:50:20 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:10:35 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I plan on doing some work on it and the dgm driver. They're almost > >> the same and should be merged. They both violate style(9) in almost > >> every way too :-[ > >> > >> I know of only one person with an Xem card (dgm driver), but he's > >> promised to send me the specs by snail mail. Once I get them, I'll > >> start the work. > >> > >> Let's leave the `alpha' there for a little longer :-) > > > > What are you planning on doing with it? Other than DDB support I can't > > imagine what could be *added* to the driver; it is one of those "just > > works" things right now. > > Why not merge the two into a *new* driver? Once it's running at an > acceptable level, drop support for the two old drivers. That way if > something breaks, the current users still have the one that works. Yes, this makes most sense. > Vince. > -- > ========================================================================== > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null > # include TEAM-OS2 > Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com > Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com > ========================================================================== -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 3:45:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F5815270; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:45:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by phk.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25236; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA08295; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:45:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:45:19 +0200 Message-ID: <8293.927456319.1@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: UFS parameter survey: HELP WANTED! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message Subject: UFS parameter survey: HELP WANTED! From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:45:19 +0200 Message-ID: <8293.927456319@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Bcc: Blind Distribution List: ; MIME-Version: 1.0 I recently made a 15GB filesystem and ended up with almost 500 cylinder groups. That is unlikely to be optimal. I talked to Kirk about the right parameters for UFS on modern disks some years back, and he said that no more than maybe a hundred cylinder groups made any sense. I think the fact that disks have gotten 25 times larger since the newfs paramters were last tweaked means that it is time to do so again. Unfortunately determining the parameters are not simple, so I would like to solicit help from as many as possible in determining if we should retune the newfs defaults. What I'm looking for is hard and soft data on the difference it makes for various sets of parameters, for various workloads and programs. So if you have time and facilities, lend me a hand. Basically, we can only sensibly compare data from the same hardware with the same workload, otherwise there are too many things to compare. Not all things can be measured precisely, but try to provide as much data as you can, and as good data as you can, ie: don't change controllers move partitions change BIOS settings without noting that you did so. The newfs parameters I would like to map out are: -a -b -c -e -f -i -m -t -u I'm generally interested in all impacts of this, but in particular if you can measure one or more of these specific parameters: read performance write performance create performance fsck time space wastage "other" I have no particular wishes for what program/application is used to excercise the system, but I would always prefer real-world over synthetic benchmarks. If somebody could measure news-server and web-server performance for instance it would be great. If anybody feels like making a structured benchmark script which just takes a device name as arg and runs some standardized tests that would be great too! Please report all results to using this form. Put the information instead of the "___", but leave the line number intact please. You don't need to return the lines starting with # I will post news and updates about this project on: http://phk.freebsd.dk/ufs If there is sufficient interest we will make a mailing list too. Thank you for your participation! Poul-Henning *BEGIN UFSTUNE FORM* # Your email address. This will be used only to catalogue and # request further details from you. It will not be published # or distributed. # Example: # 1 phk@freebsd.org 1 ___ # Identity of the system you used. This is just to keep all measurements # straight. It is used with your email as a unique index. This # should identify one particular combination of hardware, excluding # the disk you had the filesystems on. If you have the disk on # different controllers in the same system, that will count as two # systems. Use names/numbers/whatever helps you keep track of things. # Please use the same thing for all measurements made on the same # system. # Example: # 2 rover using NCR controller 2 ___ # Identity of the disk/device you had the filesystem on, please # cut&paste the <...> piece from /var/run/dmesg.boot: # Example: # 3 3 ___ # Describe the nature of the test in one-line form. # Example: # 4 Time to fsck filesystem with all four 3.2 CD's loaded 4 ___ # Describe the nature and conditions of the test in # sufficient detail that somebody else can repeat it. # Example: # 5 Filesystem is newfs'ed and mounted. The four CDs from the FreeBSD # 5 3.2 release were copied in using "find . -print | cpio -dump XXX" # 5 where XXX is mountpoint/cd[1234]. Filesystem unmounted and run # 5 /usr/bin/time -l fsck /dev/rsd0c 5 ___ # You must repeat the rest of the form for each experiment. # document the newfs commandline used. Include a -s option here. # Example: # 6 newfs -f 2048 -s 30720000 6 ___ # document any mount options, kernel features or softupdates. # Example: # 7 softupdates 7 ___ # note any other detailes pertaining to this experiment (multiline) # Example: # 8 BIOS set to 5 MHz/narrow 8 ___ # document the result of the experiment, for instance the output from # time(1) or similar (multiline) # Example: # 9 2.91 real 0.03 user 0.05 sys 9 ___ *END UFSTUNE FORM* -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 4:16:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44B715102 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 04:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id UAA11541; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:46:50 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA11149; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:46:48 +0930 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:46:48 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. In-Reply-To: <14446.927449800@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 23 May 1999 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > The OpenBSD team does a lot wrt auditing of the complete sourcetree, but > > then the question is: is this valid concern or is this pure paranoia. > > OpenBSD does a lot of valid changes but borders (and sometimes crosses thta > > border) on paranoia, wrt code. > > Given the number of postings to BUGTRAQ about array overflows and stack > smashing, I think it's relevant to ask whether it possible to be *too* > paranoid here. Personally, I think what the OpenBSD folks are doing is > very important. One of my plans is to merge all of these changes into our tree (along with all the other minor changes/manpage corrections, etc). Longer term, I'd like to work on porting some of their kernel code like randomized sin_port selection and TCP initial sequence numbering, probably hidden behind sysctl knobs (defaulting to off to keep people happy). Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 4:43:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF91152C8 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 04:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id NAA01968 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:43:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA04577; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990523133528.60946@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:28 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [johnathan.f.meehan@bankerstrust.com: FreeBSD Configuration] Reply-To: jmeehan@easynet.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from johnathan.f.meehan@bankerstrust.com ----- From: johnathan.f.meehan@bankerstrust.com To: www@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <8525677A.003D42AC.00@NYSMTP4000.svc.btco.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:08:50 +0100 Subject: FreeBSD Configuration Hi, I currently run FreeBSD 3.1 at home, and recently recommended it to a few friends at work as my preference for a non-commercial flavour of UNIX. This opened up an avenue for development that I would like to volunteer to make happen - configuration tools. Being Windows people, they found FreeBSD intimidating - configuring a sound card, adding a new device, or setting up userPPP were things they were used to having done for them. These people now run Linux, as they fell into the "UNIX is too difficult for me" trap, and liked the comfort of easy configuration. Your documentation is great, but some people need to be started more slowly. Even after following your documentation, a user may not think of creating a symlink /dev/modem to their device node (which is needed, for example, by Minicom). I like the idea of easy configuration as an /option/ to those who would like it - particularly newcomers to UNIX. With this in mind, I searched my install set for such utilities but couldn't find them, nor see them on the wanted projects list. Would you be interested in such tools being developed for FreeBSD, and could I organise such a development team? I don't want to duplicate somebody else's work, so please point me in the right direction if such work has been undertaken. Your comments on this subject wold be appreciated, but please reply to < jmeehan@easynet.co.uk >, as the return address for this mail is my workplace. Regards, Johnathan Meehan jmeehan@easynet.co.uk ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 5:54: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A89B15304 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 05:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10lXlB-0001D8-00; Sun, 23 May 1999 14:53:45 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Logging "promiscuous mode disabled" In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 May 1999 17:24:32 +0200." Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:53:45 +0200 Message-ID: <4657.927464025@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 22 May 1999 17:24:32 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Would make intrusion detection easier, etc etc =) Hi Jeroen, I don't know about that. I'd hate for anyone to think that this "improves security". I see it as a convenience option, and wanted feedback on any negative side-effects that folks more familiar with the code might spot. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 8:59: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from november.jaded.net (november.jaded.net [209.90.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618F914F8F for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 08:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@november.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by november.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3+trinsec_nospam) id MAA46182; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:05:50 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: Kris Kennaway Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, asmodai@wxs.nl, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. Message-ID: <19990523120550.D46026@trinsec.com> References: <14446.927449800@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 08:46:48PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | One of my plans is to merge all of these changes into our tree (along with all | the other minor changes/manpage corrections, etc). | | Longer term, I'd like to work on porting some of their kernel code like | randomized sin_port selection and TCP initial sequence numbering, probably | hidden behind sysctl knobs (defaulting to off to keep people happy). I think that would be a great idea. I'd be willing spare a few hours on a weekend to help out with this. -Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 9:32:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772A15097; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10352; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:31:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:31:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT In-Reply-To: <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 22 May 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > And would it be possible to MFC this stuff > > After it is tested in -CURRENT first. > > > and add an 3.2-ERRATA entry... > > Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil > the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? Just about. Did a make release for local internal use. Is there a slightly newer CVS tag other than RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE that gets us all we need to build completely functional COMPATxx's? I only care becuase of the few binaries I have that are not open source, binary only and not ELF. thanks, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 9:41:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5802915097; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id RAA27717; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:49:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA77747; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:47:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905231547.RAA77747@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: converting Multia riser card into a generic NCR810 To: port-alpha@netbsd.org, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list), freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-alpha mailing list) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:47:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG People interested in converting a riser card of a DEC Multia into a generic NCR810 card please refer to: http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko/ncr_hack.html | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 10:12:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6410E1510E for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA76997; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:11:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA12511; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905231711.LAA12511@harmony.village.org> To: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 May 1999 20:46:48 +0930." References: Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:11:19 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Kris Kennaway writes: : One of my plans is to merge all of these changes into our tree : (along with all the other minor changes/manpage corrections, etc). Which ones are currently missing? Also, beware. Most of the patches will not come into the FreeBSD tree w/o some tweaking to pass the bruce filter. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 11: 0:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27C514F18; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:00:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (d60-077.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.77]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA90766; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:00:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA34823; Sun, 23 May 1999 18:00:20 GMT (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:00:20 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Adrian Filipi-Martin , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Message-ID: <19990523110020.B34759@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Filipi-Martin on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:31:54PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil > > the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? > > Just about. Did a make release for local internal use. Is there a > slightly newer CVS tag other than RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE that gets us all we > need to build completely functional COMPATxx's? I'm not sure if the RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE was slid forward for my fix. Since doing so would allow someone to build what was on the 3.2-RELEASE CDROM, maybe we should ask Jordan if the tag shouldn't be slid forward for src/lib/compat/compat22/Makefile. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 13: 3:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C06C14C22 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05688 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 14:52:03 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 23 May 1999 15:04:49 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA52D.9A61BAC0.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolnyy Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: [Q] LKM linking Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:04:48 -0500 Organization: Ashley Laurent, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, 1. Is this possible to produce an LKM device driver that would export functions to another LKM driver? 2. If the 1. is possible, will it be possible to load the "another LKM driver" without loading the "exporting" driver? Which references would you suggest me to look into? Maybe some known combination of existing drivers? Thank you, Stan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 16: 6:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5026152DD for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from B1oL0g1c@aol.com) Received: from B1oL0g1c@aol.com (323) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id nDIVa15308 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:06:37 -0400 (EDT) From: B1oL0g1c@aol.com Message-ID: <989f4a6d.2479e3fd@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:06:37 EDT Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #466 To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 16:12:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E24F14C19 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA77919 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:11:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA14737 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:11:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905232311.RAA14737@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: getopt.c in gnu/*/* Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:11:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any reason to have getopt.c replicated in so many different programs: cvs, grep, gzip, patch, ptx, sort, tar and maybe a few others that I missed... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 16:44:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFF714DA9 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA16203; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:14:30 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA01395; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:25 +0930 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:25 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. In-Reply-To: <199905231711.LAA12511@harmony.village.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 23 May 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Kris Kennaway writes: > : One of my plans is to merge all of these changes into our tree > : (along with all the other minor changes/manpage corrections, etc). > > Which ones are currently missing? I'm not sure..I've been wandering through the openbsd source tree and merging useful diffs from binaries, but I haven't been too organised about it so far, and haven't encountered much in the way of "important" fixes. I'm sure there are some, though. > Also, beware. Most of the patches will not come into the FreeBSD tree > w/o some tweaking to pass the bruce filter. I'm expecting that, but I'm willing to clean up what I bring across. Kris > > Warner > ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, that's sharp!" - Ace Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 17:18: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-12.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CDC14E44 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13167; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:18:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: IPv6 and -current? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 23 May 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > I already mailed Itojun-san about the status of the KAME/Inria merger and > hope to hear from him soon. Well, I finally got the userland shit working! This would make an awesome port, it compiles out of the box, and works with bpf to do ipv6 in ipv4 tunneling :) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 23 20: 2:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt055nc1.san.rr.com (dt055nc1.san.rr.com [24.30.153.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91FEB151AE for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt055nc1.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09078; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <3748C13F.60A5C5DB@gorean.org> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:02:23 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jmeehan@easynet.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [johnathan.f.meehan@bankerstrust.com: FreeBSD Configuration] References: <19990523133528.60946@panke.de.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wolfram Schneider wrote: > I like the idea of easy configuration as an /option/ to those who would > like it - particularly newcomers to UNIX. With this in mind, I searched my > install set for such utilities but couldn't find them, nor see them on the > wanted projects list. Your best bet would be to take a look at http://www.webmin.com/. What you're talking about would best be included as a module for their framework. For what it's worth, I think it's an excellent idea. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Nominated for quote of the year is the statement made by Representative Dick Armey (Texas), who when asked if he were in the President's place, would he resign, responded: "If I were in the President's place I would not get a chance to resign. I would be lying in a pool of my own blood hearing Mrs. Armey standing over me saying, 'How do I reload this damn thing?'" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 0:38: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7558E14CF0 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03977 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:37:04 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08530 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:37:49 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA05994; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:37:49 +0800 Message-Id: <199905240737.PAA05994@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Munging ELF binaries and libraries. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:37:48 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone written any tools that allow one to a) Change the names of external symbols referenced by a library or exported out of a library. b) Add to the list of shared objects that this library needs in order to run, so that a runtime linker will drag them in as well when a binary linked with this shared library is run. The reason for the above is that I'm planning on tweaking various linux-only ELF libs so that when they're linked into a FreeBSD binary, a shim library will be automagically dragged in as well. This will allow FreeBSD users to happily create binaries that use 3dfx's glide library, for instance. Can you say hardware accelerated OpenGL? Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 0:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176A314CBF for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29358; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 May 1999 09:45:55 +0200." <19990523094555.A33370@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:52:32 -0700 Message-ID: <29354.927532352@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What make OpenBSD so "secure" ? Or can this kind of security be > reproduced with FreeBSD ports ? I think of tools like: It's not the tools but the amount of time supposedly invested in improving security. I say "supposedly" because a lot of the buffer overflow issues they've dealt with haven't been actual, proven security holes per-se but rather just more examples of defensive programming. Sometimes it's actually preventative, other times it's just an exercise in replacing every strcpy() with strncpy() (and so on) because that's an easy thing to do. It's a bit like the approach of putting more locks on your front door. Maybe those extra locks will save your butt, maybe they'll just be expensive extras for a house with nothing worth stealing and maybe the thieves will use the window instead and just bypass the door altogether - it's very hard to say. What is certain is that having ANY faith in ANYONE'S security claims as a substitute for properly diligent system administration is just complete and utter foolishness. Most attacks I've seen, in fact, compromise *BSD (for all values of *BSD) and Linux equally through well-known 3rd party utilities, like popper or sendmail, rather than the "OS" itself. I doubt that any group has enough resources to completely audit even a small fraction of the 3rd party packages which users are likely to run and, even if they did, each revision of a package would necessitate auditing it all over again. Don't trust anyone's security claims, *especially* when they claim to be uncrackable or even "extremely secure." Operating systems are built by engineers, the same sort of engineers who built "unsinkable ships" like the Titanic, and I think that pretty much says it all. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 0:54:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B805B14DA3 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29383; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:55:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: security: what does OpenBSD have, that FreeBSD doesn't have. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:25 +0930." Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:55:19 -0700 Message-ID: <29379.927532519@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not sure..I've been wandering through the openbsd source tree and merging > useful diffs from binaries, but I haven't been too organised about it so far, > and haven't encountered much in the way of "important" fixes. I'm sure there > are some, though. While it can rightfully be said that OpenBSD has done extensive auditing, I think all that's required of us is some auditing of the auditing. :) If you don't take the changes wholesale but merely use them as "very good hints" in doing your own security auditing, I think you'll be off to an excellent start in exactly the right direction. Don't stop there though - there's every possibility that other eyes might catch something *they* missed, and that's something which can only benefit both groups. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 1:46: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0083814FAE; Mon, 24 May 1999 01:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29624; Mon, 24 May 1999 01:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 May 1999 11:00:20 PDT." <19990523110020.B34759@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:46:41 -0700 Message-ID: <29620.927535601@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Since doing so would allow someone to build what was on the 3.2-RELEASE > CDROM, maybe we should ask Jordan if the tag shouldn't be slid forward > for src/lib/compat/compat22/Makefile. Sorry, the release is already out and I don't slide a fixed reference tag after its reference point has indelibly moved on. This policy is important for a lot of reasons. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 3: 6:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.incomtel.ru (ns.incomtel.ru [195.34.46.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CD714CB0 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 03:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chochlov@incor.ru) Received: from hohlov (hohlov.incomtel.ru [195.34.46.143]) by ns.incomtel.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00195 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:06:09 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <000801bea5cd$48d5c340$8f2e22c3@incomtel.ru> From: "Roman V. Chochlov" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:07:47 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEA5EE.CD829840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEA5EE.CD829840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like subscribe to list of routing last changes. Best regards,=20 Chochlov Roman. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEA5EE.CD829840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would like subscribe to list of routing last=20 changes.
Best regards,
Chochlov Roman.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEA5EE.CD829840-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 4:17:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53387152A3 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 04:17:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04499 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:16:31 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA27370 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:17:19 +0800 (WST) Received: by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA06831; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:17:18 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:17:18 +0800 From: shocking@prth.pgs.com (Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth) Message-Id: <199905241117.TAA06831@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Lists of libc APIs for *bsd &linux Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm hunting around for a list of entry points in both Linux & FreeBSD's libc. I want to find out what linux libc entry points are not found within the BSD libc, and what entry points that are common have different arguments be they just different or things of the same name with different definitions. This is so a shim library can be developed allowing the use of Linux libraries liked into FreeBSD binaries. I am anticipating that perhaps the Linux lib may have to be altered in some way (changing the name of an external reference where it clashes with a FreeBSD libc call of the same name with varying arguments, or mapping external variables onto their FreeBSD equivalents). It'll make the use of certain recalcitrant third party libs a bunch easier. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 5: 9: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB9A14E89 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04399 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:08:48 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905241208.WAA04399@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:08:47 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Back when I was running 2.2.8 (and on a different laptop), I used zp0 with the 3c589D although it sucked with people recommending using ed0. Does that recommendation hold true for 3.1 ? FWIW, I've tried to boot a kernel with both ed0 & zp0 edit'd with "boot -c" but neither seem to be able to probe the card at the same `address' that Windows98 sees it at (IO 0x1020, IRQ 11). Any hints/tips on how to make it work ? Darren p.s. whoever broke "boot -c" options saving should be shot! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 7:33:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200951515D for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA90318; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:33:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback References: <19990521214202.A16648@Denninger.Net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 May 1999 16:33:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: Karl Denninger's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 21:42:02 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger writes: > If the system starts taking interrupts, I get "clicks", roughly > consonant with the interrupts, in the output. They're solidly > correlated with disk activity. Do you have IDE disks? Do they run in DMA mode? If not, switch to DMA mode. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 7:35: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824C914CFD for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.74]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5B2F; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:34:56 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29400; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:35:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905241117.TAA06831@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:35:14 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: (Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth) Subject: RE: Lists of libc APIs for *bsd &linux Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-May-99 Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > I'm hunting around for a list of entry points in both Linux & FreeBSD's > libc. I want to find out what linux libc entry points are not found > within the BSD libc, and what entry points that are common have different > arguments be they just different or things of the same name with different > definitions. > > This is so a shim library can be developed allowing the use of Linux > libraries liked into FreeBSD binaries. I am anticipating that perhaps the > Linux lib may have to be altered in some way (changing the name of an > external reference where it clashes with a FreeBSD libc call of the same > name with varying arguments, or mapping external variables onto their > FreeBSD equivalents). It'll make the use of certain recalcitrant third > party libs a bunch easier. Well, there's work underway to document the NetBSD/FreeBSD sources wrt to functions, system calls, etc... See some of that stuff at my homepage (URL in .sig) and look for the PDP link. Should you receive additional information, please keep me informed so I can expand the list. 'gards, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 8:18:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E8014E89 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04690; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:17:12 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA23758; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:17:58 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA06971; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:17:58 +0800 Message-Id: <199905241517.XAA06971@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Joe Orthoefer Cc: shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lists of libc APIs for *bsd &linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 May 1999 10:30:00 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:17:58 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Since this is right now a glide specific project perhaps a piecemeal > approach to implementing this shim is appropriate. The little I've looked > at the glide libs shows; freebsd's nm can show all the important > symbol info (externs) and our ldd can show the share object dependencies. That's exactly what I'm doing. Unfortunately, ldd spits the dummy. I think I'll be using code based on objcopy for modification of symbol names and dependent libraries. > > How goes it with a native /dev/3dfx? > Not as well as I'd like. It follows the structure of Daryll Strauss'es code OK, but when glide is initialising, after getting the number of cards, it tries to pass a structure for some I/O which has some garbage values in it. I don't know if the structure is packed differently or what. Most frustrating. If I can beat this shim into shape, then we can have hardware accelerated OpenGL while I tinker with the device driver. Grrr. Have a Voodoo 1 myself. Am also waiting for someone else to do the mtrr code for AMD K6-2s. Stephen > -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 9:15:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C5D14E41 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id LAA41576; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:15:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990524111544.A41558@Denninger.Net> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:15:44 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback References: <19990521214202.A16648@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Mon, May 24, 1999 at 04:33:08PM +0200 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 04:33:08PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Karl Denninger writes: > > If the system starts taking interrupts, I get "clicks", roughly > > consonant with the interrupts, in the output. They're solidly > > correlated with disk activity. > > Do you have IDE disks? Do they run in DMA mode? If not, switch to DMA > mode. No, all disks in the system are SCSI drives. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 11:32:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from risingNet.net (RisingNet.NET [216.160.91.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1FB115083 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boen@risingnet.net) Received: from master (Boen.KickazZ.org [207.108.221.178]) by risingNet.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA08687 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boen@risingnet.net) Message-ID: <018701bea613$d3442300$b2dd6ccf@master> From: "Anton Bun" To: Subject: Fatal trap 12 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear FreeBSD, I'm using FreeBSD-3.1-RELEASE. My box are running 120 eggdrop bots, 5 BitchX and 12 BNC the box keep getting fatal error 12 every 1 - 2 days go longer than = that.=20 I have 256 MB RAM 450MHZ Pentium II=20 swap file system 512 MB=20 my fatal error 12 messages : panicstr: page fault panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address =3D 0xc47864 fault code =3D supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer =3D 0x8:0xf01a1aff stack pointer =3D 0x10:0xf9135f74 frame pointer =3D 0x10:0xf9135f7c code segment =3D base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b =3D DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags =3D interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =3D 0 current process =3D 44565 (cc1) interrupt mask =3D=20 trap number =3D 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... 95 94 55 31 done dumping to dev 20401, offset 535344 dump 256 255 254 253 252 251 250 249 248 247 246 245 244 243 242 241 240 = 239 238 237 236 235 234 233 232 231 230 229 228 227 226 225 224 223 222 = 221 220 219 218 217 216 215 214 213 212 211 210 209 208 207 206 205 204 = 203 202 201 200 199 198 197 196 195 194 193 192 191 190 189 188 187 186 = 185 184 183 182 181 180 179 178 177 176 175 174 173 172 171 170 169 168 = 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 154 153 152 151 150 = 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 = 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 = 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 = 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 = 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 = 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 = 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1=20 --- #0 0xf0151063 in boot () (kgdb) where #0 0xf0151063 in boot () #1 0xf01512e8 in at_shutdown () #2 0xf02043c1 in trap_fatal () #3 0xf020409f in trap_pfault () #4 0xf0203d42 in trap () #5 0xf01a1aff in tcp_fasttimo () #6 0xf016673b in pffasttimo () #7 0xf0155737 in softclock () #8 0xf01fce53 in doreti_swi () #9 0x81093f9 in ?? () #10 0x810ad99 in ?? () #11 0x810abb2 in ?? () #12 0x8070f90 in ?? () #13 0x8052629 in ?? () #14 0x8048e83 in ?? () #15 0x80700b0 in ?? () #16 0x80725d6 in ?? () #17 0x80480e9 in ?? () (kgdb)=20 Are they any other way to keep my box up and not getting fatal error 12. = I already send email to: Doug White =20 Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org and he said :=20 Hm, I wonder why there are no function names below frame #9. Based on what's crashing, cc1, I'm guessing bad memory or processor cache, in a pretty serious way. Please check your memory type and settings. Please send this information, including your system version, to hackers@freebsd.org. Make sure you've followed the instructions in the kernel debugging section of the Handbook to the best of your ability. =20 =20 Thank You=20 =20 Anton Bun (System Administrator) www.RisingNet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 11:34:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84161511B for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA71660 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905241834.OAA71660@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: still problems with kernel debugging Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:34:19 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have just installed 3.2-19990521-STABLE from releng3.freebsd.org. I compiled a debugging kernel, forced a panic with DDB, and created a crashdump, on bootup it saved it to /var/crash/[kernel|vmcore].0. I then ran a 'gdb -k kernel.0 vmcore.0' and received the happy fun 'gd_curpcb' symbol not found error. What am I doing wrong? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 11:49:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83AD1524F for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18815; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:49:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:49:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199905241849.OAA18815@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, will@iki.fi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have tried gdb from 3.2-BETA, 3.2-RELEASE, and 3.2-STABLE, as well as the > gdb that was built from the exact same CVS checkout as the kernel owas from, > they all give the same error. > > -- > David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 > Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 > I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD > Some of the gdb source files were incorrectly tagged for 3.2 branch, I'll fix it. -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 12: 2:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08B214FAB for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:02:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA72095; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905241902.PAA72095@cs.rpi.edu> To: Luoqi Chen Cc: crossd@cs.rpi.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, will@iki.fi, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server In-Reply-To: Message from Luoqi Chen of "Mon, 24 May 1999 14:49:15 EDT." <199905241849.OAA18815@lor.watermarkgroup.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:02:08 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there anything I can do on my end (we have a complete CVS repository, synced every 4 hours. I would like to use the *exact* same gdb that we compiled the world from if possible, I am affraid of using a more recent gdb will result in not being able to read the core (I am unable to use a 3.1-STABLE gdb to read the core from a 3.2-STABLE system). -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 12:42:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568AE14BE4 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19277; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:41:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:41:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199905241941.PAA19277@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Repeatable kernel panic for 3.2-RELEASE NFS server Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, will@iki.fi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there anything I can do on my end (we have a complete CVS repository, > synced every 4 hours. I would like to use the *exact* same gdb that we > compiled the world from if possible, I am affraid of using a more recent > gdb will result in not being able to read the core (I am unable to use > a 3.1-STABLE gdb to read the core from a 3.2-STABLE system). > > -- > David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 > Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 > I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD > I just backed out changes I made that shouldn't be in the 3.x branch, you may cvsup again. If you can't wait, you may back out the changes yourself, they are -j1.16 -j1.15 /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/binutils/gdb/i386/kvm-fbsd.c, -j1.20 -j1.19 /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/binutils/gdb/i386/freebsd-nat.c (cvs update -j doesn't seem to work, I had to get the diff and patch myself). -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 13: 2:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18A414E98 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA10794; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA04205; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:02:27 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA06948; Mon, 24 May 99 13:02:22 PDT Message-Id: <3749B04E.B1D70CC0@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:02:22 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 References: <199905241208.WAA04399@cheops.anu.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Reed wrote: > > Back when I was running 2.2.8 (and on a different laptop), I used zp0 > with the 3c589D although it sucked with people recommending using ed0. > > Does that recommendation hold true for 3.1 ? FWIW, I've tried to boot > a kernel with both ed0 & zp0 edit'd with "boot -c" but neither seem to > be able to probe the card at the same `address' that Windows98 sees it > at (IO 0x1020, IRQ 11). Any hints/tips on how to make it work ? Have you tried using pccardd? It works just fine for me. I compiled the ISC DHCP client seperately, since the port was marked broken in 3.1, but I see it's been fixed in 3.2. I had to add the following section to /etc/pccard.conf for my PCMCIA ethernet card: # Wes's D-Link card (works with BeOS) card "D-Link" "DE-660" config 0x20 "ed0" 11 insert echo D-Link ethernet card inserted insert /etc/pccard_ether ed0 remove echo D-Link ethernet card removed remove /sbin/ifconfig ed0 delete There is a configuration for the 589D already in /etc/pccard.conf.sample, so you should have an easy time of it. This machine wanders back and forth between home and work every day, and works fine on startup/shutdown. Suspend is a little iffy, but the only time I use suspend is to take it off the network at lunch and put it back on the same network after lunch. Email me if you need any help. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 14: 4:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC50214C05 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3/UCB) id XAA32464; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:59:58 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:59:58 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Anton Bun Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fatal trap 12 Message-ID: <19990524235958.B28473@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Anton Bun , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <018701bea613$d3442300$b2dd6ccf@master> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <018701bea613$d3442300$b2dd6ccf@master>; from Anton Bun on Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:32:46AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:32:46AM -0700, Anton Bun wrote: > Dear FreeBSD, > > I'm using FreeBSD-3.1-RELEASE. > My box are running 120 eggdrop bots, 5 BitchX and 12 BNC > the box keep getting fatal error 12 every 1 - 2 days go longer than that. > I have 256 MB RAM 450MHZ Pentium II > swap file system 512 MB > > > my fatal error 12 messages : > > panicstr: page fault > panic messages: > --- > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0xc47864 > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01a1aff > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf9135f74 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf9135f7c > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > current process = 44565 (cc1) > interrupt mask = > trap number = 12 > panic: page fault > > syncing disks... 95 94 55 31 done > > dumping to dev 20401, offset 535344 > dump 256 255 254 253 252 251 250 249 248 247 246 245 244 243 242 241 240 239 238 237 236 235 234 233 232 231 230 229 228 227 226 225 224 223 222 221 220 219 218 217 216 215 214 213 212 211 210 209 208 207 206 205 204 203 202 201 200 199 198 197 196 195 194 193 192 191 190 189 188 187 186 185 184 183 182 181 180 179 178 177 176 175 174 173 172 171 170 169 168 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 154 153 152 151 150 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 > --- > #0 0xf0151063 in boot () > (kgdb) where > #0 0xf0151063 in boot () > #1 0xf01512e8 in at_shutdown () > #2 0xf02043c1 in trap_fatal () > #3 0xf020409f in trap_pfault () > #4 0xf0203d42 in trap () > #5 0xf01a1aff in tcp_fasttimo () > #6 0xf016673b in pffasttimo () > #7 0xf0155737 in softclock () > #8 0xf01fce53 in doreti_swi () > #9 0x81093f9 in ?? () > #10 0x810ad99 in ?? () > #11 0x810abb2 in ?? () > #12 0x8070f90 in ?? () > #13 0x8052629 in ?? () > #14 0x8048e83 in ?? () > #15 0x80700b0 in ?? () > #16 0x80725d6 in ?? () > #17 0x80480e9 in ?? () > (kgdb) > > > Are they any other way to keep my box up and not getting fatal error 12. > Upgrade to 3.2-STABLE. > Hm, I wonder why there are no function names below frame #9. Based on > what's crashing, cc1, I'm guessing bad memory or processor cache, in a > pretty serious way. Please check your memory type and settings. > config -g Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 14: 6:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC7514D8F for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA74352 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905242106.RAA74352@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: repeatable 3.2 panic, new and improved with backtrace Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:06:35 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here it is: (I am not sure that the source didn't get updated since the kernel was compiled, so the line numbers may be meaningless. The second backtrace is from and earlier kernel and has 0 line number information in it. IdlePTD 2985984 initial pcb at 264eac panicstr: lockmgr: locking against myself panic messages: --- panic: lockmgr: locking against myself syncing disks... 77 65 47 26 7 done dumping to dev 20001, offset 303392 dump 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 285 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xc014b3f4 in at_shutdown ( function=0xc0234aca <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+154>, arg=0x10002, queue=-949495424) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xc01470f8 in lockmgr (lkp=0xc14ab000, flags=16842754, interlkp=0xc767d9f0, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 #4 0xc01e4fad in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #5 0xc0175d97 in vn_lock (vp=0xc767d980, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20) at vnode_if.h:811 #6 0xc016f93f in vget (vp=0xc767d980, flags=2, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 #7 0xc016bac7 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 #8 0xc01e4fad in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #9 0xc016e079 in lookup (ndp=0xc7482d94) at vnode_if.h:31 #10 0xc01b769c in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7482d94, fhp=0xc7482d0c, len=0, slp=0xc0f7e600, nam=0xc1688fc0, mdp=0xc7482c48, dposp=0xc7482c44, retdirp=0xc7482c2c, p=0xc743eb20, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 #11 0xc01a068f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc1542b00, slp=0xc0f7e600, procp=0xc743eb20, mrq=0xc7482e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 #12 0xc01b90f6 in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7482e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743eb20) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 #13 0xc01b8a11 in nfssvc (p=0xc743eb20, uap=0xc7482f94) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 #14 0xc020bd5f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951570460, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #15 0xc0202b8c in Xint0x80_syscall () #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () Here is the dump from a previous build, no line numbers in this one, sorry. panic: lockmgr: locking against myself syncing disks... 64 46 31 13 2 done dumping to dev 20001, offset 303392 dump 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 0xc014ae43 in boot () (kgdb) bt #0 0xc014ae43 in boot () #1 0xc014b0c8 in at_shutdown () #2 0xc0146dbf in lockmgr () #3 0xc016ccec in vop_stdlock () #4 0xc01e4c8d in ufs_vnoperate () #5 0xc0175ac7 in vn_lock () #6 0xc016f66f in vget () #7 0xc016b7f7 in vfs_cache_lookup () #8 0xc01e4c8d in ufs_vnoperate () #9 0xc016dda9 in lookup () #10 0xc01b73cc in nfs_namei () #11 0xc01a03bf in nfsrv_lookup () #12 0xc01b8e26 in nfssvc_nfsd () #13 0xc01b8741 in nfssvc () #14 0xc020ba4f in syscall () #15 0xc020287c in Xint0x80_syscall () #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () (kgdb) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 17:50: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A64D8150B4 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA86607; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: Joe Orthoefer , shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lists of libc APIs for *bsd &linux In-Reply-To: <199905241517.XAA06971@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 May 1999, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > Since this is right now a glide specific project perhaps a piecemeal > > approach to implementing this shim is appropriate. The little I've looked > > at the glide libs shows; freebsd's nm can show all the important > > symbol info (externs) and our ldd can show the share object dependencies. > > That's exactly what I'm doing. Unfortunately, ldd spits the dummy. I think > I'll be using code based on objcopy for modification of symbol names and > dependent libraries. > > > > How goes it with a native /dev/3dfx? > > > Not as well as I'd like. It follows the structure of Daryll Strauss'es code > OK, but when glide is initialising, after getting the number of cards, it > tries to pass a structure for some I/O which has some garbage values in it. I > don't know if the structure is packed differently or what. Most frustrating. > If I can beat this shim into shape, then we can have hardware accelerated > OpenGL while I tinker with the device driver. Grrr. Have a Voodoo 1 myself. Am > also waiting for someone else to do the mtrr code for AMD K6-2s. Why do you REALLY need this so badly? If you make me a good case, I'll stay up REALLY late and do it tonight. Deal? > > > > Stephen > > > > -- > The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. > > "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce > the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know > this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 19:25:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C829B15548 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11819; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:24:51 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905250224.MAA11819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:24:51 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3749B04E.B1D70CC0@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at May 24, 99 02:02:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Wes Peters, sie said: > > Darren Reed wrote: > > > > Back when I was running 2.2.8 (and on a different laptop), I used zp0 > > with the 3c589D although it sucked with people recommending using ed0. > > > > Does that recommendation hold true for 3.1 ? FWIW, I've tried to boot > > a kernel with both ed0 & zp0 edit'd with "boot -c" but neither seem to > > be able to probe the card at the same `address' that Windows98 sees it > > at (IO 0x1020, IRQ 11). Any hints/tips on how to make it work ? > > Have you tried using pccardd? It works just fine for me. I compiled > the ISC DHCP client seperately, since the port was marked broken in > 3.1, but I see it's been fixed in 3.2. > > I had to add the following section to /etc/pccard.conf for my PCMCIA > ethernet card: > > # Wes's D-Link card (works with BeOS) > card "D-Link" "DE-660" > config 0x20 "ed0" 11 > insert echo D-Link ethernet card inserted > insert /etc/pccard_ether ed0 > remove echo D-Link ethernet card removed > remove /sbin/ifconfig ed0 delete > > There is a configuration for the 589D already in /etc/pccard.conf.sample, > so you should have an easy time of it. Heh. See below. [...] > Email me if you need any help. pccardd[198]: fatal error: no PC-CARD slots "sigh" Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 22:11:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819A814BE4 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA81830; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA00416; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905250509.XAA00416@harmony.village.org> To: Darren Reed Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 12:24:51 +1000." <199905250224.MAA11819@cheops.anu.edu.au> References: <199905250224.MAA11819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:09:41 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199905250224.MAA11819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Darren Reed writes: : pccardd[198]: fatal error: no PC-CARD slots What does dmesg say? Is pcic0 detected? If so, how many slots did it say it had? Do you have controller card and device pcic in your config file (see LINT for details)? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 23:29:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B07214E47 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14838; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:29:07 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905250629.QAA14838@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 To: imp@harmony.village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:29:07 +1000 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905250509.XAA00416@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 24, 99 11:09:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Warner Losh, sie said: > > In message <199905250224.MAA11819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Darren Reed writes: > : pccardd[198]: fatal error: no PC-CARD slots > > What does dmesg say? Is pcic0 detected? If so, how many slots did it > say it had? Do you have controller card and device pcic in your > config file (see LINT for details)? So far, I've just used "GENERIC" and I've since installed NetBSD 1.4 over FreeBSD which detected it as: pcic0 at isa0 port 0x3e0-0x3e1 iomem 0xd0000-0xd3fff irq 9 pcico: controller 0 (Cirrus PD672X) has sockets A and B They're attached to a cardbus-pci bridge pair of chips that are defined as vendor=1013, device=1110, rev 0xc1 Does the GENERC (or whatever kernel gets installed for 3.1 by default) have pcic devices in it ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 23:44:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A1614D0D for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA82011; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:42:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA00781; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905250642.AAA00781@harmony.village.org> To: Darren Reed Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 Cc: wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 16:29:07 +1000." <199905250629.QAA14838@cheops.anu.edu.au> References: <199905250629.QAA14838@cheops.anu.edu.au> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 00:42:50 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199905250629.QAA14838@cheops.anu.edu.au> Darren Reed writes: : Does the GENERC (or whatever kernel gets installed for 3.1 by default) : have pcic devices in it ? No. It doesn't. :-( Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 24 23:46:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles502.castles.com [208.214.165.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B4414D0D for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00833; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905250643.XAA00833@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Christopher Sedore Cc: Mike Smith , Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mmap of a network buffer In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 16:46:10 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:43:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I really do not know how to describe the problem. But a friend here asks > > > me how to mmap a network buffer so that there is no need to copy the data > > > from user space to kernel space. We are not sure whether FreeBSD can > > > create a device file (mknod) for a network card, and if so, we can use the > > > mmap() call to do so because mmap() requires a file descriptor. We assume > > > that the file descriptor can be acquired by opening the network device. > > > If this is infeasible, is there another way to accomplish the same goal? > > > > Use sendfile() for zero-copy file transmission; in all other cases it's > > necessary to copy data into the kernel. Memory-mapping a network > > buffer makes no sense if you just think about it for a moment... > > > > There's also very little need for this under "real" circumstances; some > > simple tests have demonstrated we can sustain about 800Mbps throughput > > (UDP), and the bottleneck here seems to be checksum calculations, not > > copyin/out. > > > > Oddly enough, I was just getting ready to implement something like this. > Not because of copyin performance issues, but because async io for sockets > could be done better if I didn't have to do a copyin. copyin has to have > curproc==(proc with the buffer from which to copy) That's basically right. You have three options: - Switch to process context to access process data; this allows you to take page faults in controlled circumstances (eg. copyin). - Wire the process' pages into the kernel so you don't have to fault. - Copy the user data into kernel space in an efficient fashion. > which means that I have > to do a context switch for every socket buffer sized chunk (best case) or > every io op (worst case). It sounds like your buffering is not efficient. > My hope was to map the user's buffer into kernel space so that I could do > event driven io on the socket without having to context switch to an aiod > for every io operation. Is this really a bad idea? I am a little > concerned about running out of kernel address space, but I don't think > that's an immediate problem. If you map into the kernel, you still have to context switch unless you wire the data down. Excessive wiring can be expensive. Have a look at how physio() does it's thing. > Such an implementation would lend itself to doing zero-copy writes async > writes with some frobbing of the send routines. It would also bypass some > of the messing around done to do socket buffers--that is, there would not > be a limit per se on socket buffering for writes since they would be > mapped user space. One might want to put arbitrary limits in place to > ensure that an unreasonable amount of memory isn't locked. > > Thoughts? Sounds a lot like sendfile. See if you can't improve on it to do eg. sendmem(). -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 0:49:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from oblr.sm.energy.gov.ua (energy.net.ua [195.123.30.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDB7153AD for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MIK@sm.energy.gov.ua) Received: from obl01.sm.energy.gov.ua (obl01.sm.energy.gov.ua [10.109.0.2]) by oblr.sm.energy.gov.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/1) with ESMTP id KAA07874 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 10:48:12 +0300 (EEST) Received: from SUMOBL01/MAIL_UNIX by obl01.sm.energy.gov.ua (Mercury 1.20); 25 May 99 10:47:05 UKR-2 Received: from MAIL_UNIX by SUMOBL01 (Mercury 1.20); 25 May 99 10:46:31 UKR-2 From: "Yuri Mikhaylov" Organization: çáüë "óÕÍÙÏÂÌÜÎÅÒÇÏ" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:46:31 UKR-2 Subject: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <8C2F050567@obl01.sm.energy.gov.ua> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG help To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 1:58:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B3D15638 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:58:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:01:32 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179618@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Mike Smith' , Ladavac Marino Cc: Joel Ray Holveck , Doug Rabson , Peter Wemm , Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Lazy SPLs Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:56:31 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 6:05 PM > To: Ladavac Marino > Cc: 'Mike Smith'; Joel Ray Holveck; Doug Rabson; Peter Wemm; Tommy > Hallgren; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Lazy SPLs > > > For a simplistic bus, perhaps. But an arbitrated token-delivery > interrupt buslet with a bus-standardised interrupt state > acknowledgement > protocol would be much more efficient. [ML] It would be nice to have an intelligent bus, yes. I won't hold my breath, though :( > PCI makes too many compromises to the PC's architecture; we're just > about ready for a new bus again. [ML] Pretty much, yes. The bus is becoming to be a bottleneck again. > I don't believe I ever suggested that this was the only alternative > technique, and I'm certainly on record as not liking it either. [ML] No, you certainly did not suggest that, but it is the way ISA behaves, and PCI has an advantage over ISA in this respect. The fact that it was only a half-measure is the flip side of the coin. /Marino > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 3:32:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAEF15771 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:32:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id MAA06854; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:32:21 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Karl Denninger Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -CURRENT problems - keyboard lockup! In-Reply-To: <19990521114455.A270@Denninger.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Run CURRENT, read -current. Nick > I figured it out just as you were sending this :-) > > This is one that should be noted somewhere (either in GENERIC or LINT); > it bit me and it will bite others who have custom configuration files that > they've been using for a while. > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net > I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give > up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. > > > On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 01:41:45AM +0900, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > >This morning I tried to boot that kernel. It comes up, but the console > > >is dead! The DISPLAY is ok, but I have no keyboard control. Replugging > > >the keyboard does not help. > > > > > >Here's the boot trace... (with a bit of annotation) > > > > > >Copyright (c) 1992-1999 The FreeBSD Project. > > >Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > > > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > > >FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #5: Fri May 21 00:39:24 CDT 1999 > > > karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net:/usr/src/sys/compile/KARL > > [...] > > >atkbdc0: at port 0x60-0x6f on isa0 > > >vga0: on isa0 > > >sc0: on isa0 > > >sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > > > The keyboard driver is not configured correctly. Make sure you have > > the following lines. > > > > # keyboard controller > > device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD > > # AT keyboard > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > # PS/2 mouse > > device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 > > > > I suspect you config file contains "at isa?" for atkbd0 and psm0, > > rather than "at atkbdc?". > > > > Kazu > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 4: 4:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0B115639 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24740 Tue, 25 May 1999 12:03:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <374A83BB.90DA6EC@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:04:27 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How to find the PCI chipset type inside a driver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I need the bt848/bt878 driver to find out the motherboard's PCI chipset. IE, Is this Bt878 card sitting on a VIA, SIS, OPTi or INTEL motherboard. Can this be done? The Bt878 can be programmed to run in "Intel (Full PCI2.1 ompatible) Mode" "Intel 440FX mode" "SIS/VIA/OPTi" mode. Each mode drives the PCI bus mastering slightly differently to cater for bugs/features in various PCI chipsets. Setting the Bt878 to SIS/VIA/OPTi mode fixed some strange machine hangs experienced by a UK user yesterday. I'd like the Bt848 driver to inquire about the PCI bus. To get the VENDOR and DEVICE_ID codes. It can then automatically enable the right mode on Bt878 chips. Any ideas? Ideally I need a method for 2.2.x, 3.x and -current. Bye Roger -- Roger Hardiman Strathclyde Uni Telepresence Research Group, Glasgow, Scotland. http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk 0141 548 2897 roger@cs.strath.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 4:20:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A318F14DA1 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA29787; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19221; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id HAA04710; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:20:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199905251120.HAA04710@lakes.dignus.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, roger@cs.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: How to find the PCI chipset type inside a driver In-Reply-To: <374A83BB.90DA6EC@cs.strath.ac.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I need the bt848/bt878 driver to find out the motherboard's PCI chipset. > IE, Is this Bt878 card sitting on a VIA, SIS, OPTi or INTEL motherboard. > > Can this be done? > > The Bt878 can be programmed to run in > "Intel (Full PCI2.1 ompatible) Mode" > "Intel 440FX mode" > "SIS/VIA/OPTi" mode. > Each mode drives the PCI bus mastering slightly differently to cater > for bugs/features in various PCI chipsets. > > Setting the Bt878 to SIS/VIA/OPTi mode fixed some strange > machine hangs experienced by a UK user yesterday. > > > I'd like the Bt848 driver to inquire about the PCI bus. > To get the VENDOR and DEVICE_ID codes. > > It can then automatically enable the right mode on Bt878 > chips. > > Any ideas? > Ideally I need a method for 2.2.x, 3.x and -current. > > Bye > Roger > -- > Roger Hardiman > Strathclyde Uni Telepresence Research Group, Glasgow, Scotland. > http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk 0141 548 2897 > roger@cs.strath.ac.uk Roger - Just a thought - not really an answer to your question... but... I struck me that since bt848 isn't in the default kernel (you have to build your own kernel for it) - couldn't you just make this a flag in the config file? Then, a couple of #ifdef's in the bt848 driver would handle it. Granted - the kernel becomes quite machine specific at that point, so - this is definately not the best answer (automatically determining as you suggest, would be better.) - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 5:12:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell2.la.best.com (shell2.la.best.com [209.24.216.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E201514F3C for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:12:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nugundam@shell2.la.best.com) Received: (from nugundam@localhost) by shell2.la.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id FAA17711; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990525051201.A13689@la.best.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 05:12:01 -0700 From: "Joseph T. Lee" To: Karl Denninger , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback References: <19990521214202.A16648@Denninger.Net> <19990524111544.A41558@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990524111544.A41558@Denninger.Net>; from Karl Denninger on Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:15:44AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:15:44AM -0500, Karl Denninger wrote: > No, all disks in the system are SCSI drives. Move the card to a slot not sharing IRQs with the scsi? I had to do that with my PCI128. -- Joseph nugundam =best=com==/==\=IIGS=/==\=Playstation=/==\=Civic HX CVT=/==\ # Anime Expo 1998 >> www.anime-expo.org/ > # Redline Games >> www.redlinegames.com/ > # FreeBSD >> www.freebsd.org > # EX: The Online World of Anime & Manga >> www.ex.org/ / To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 6:21: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2B2156EC for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id IAA43908; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990525082055.B43883@Denninger.Net> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:20:55 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: "Joseph T. Lee" , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback References: <19990521214202.A16648@Denninger.Net> <19990524111544.A41558@Denninger.Net> <19990525051201.A13689@la.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990525051201.A13689@la.best.com>; from Joseph T. Lee on Tue, May 25, 1999 at 05:12:01AM -0700 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Uh, the Ensoniq board is an ISA card, everything else in the system (except the Digiboard) is a PCI card. As such the interrupts are not shared. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 05:12:01AM -0700, Joseph T. Lee wrote: > On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 11:15:44AM -0500, Karl Denninger wrote: > > No, all disks in the system are SCSI drives. > > Move the card to a slot not sharing IRQs with the scsi? I had to do that > with my PCI128. > > -- > Joseph nugundam =best=com==/==\=IIGS=/==\=Playstation=/==\=Civic HX CVT=/==\ > # Anime Expo 1998 >> www.anime-expo.org/ > > # Redline Games >> www.redlinegames.com/ > > # FreeBSD >> www.freebsd.org > > # EX: The Online World of Anime & Manga >> www.ex.org/ / To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 6:29:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A437B156EA for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27541 Tue, 25 May 1999 14:28:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <374AA5B4.5D8D22B6@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:29:24 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to find the PCI chipset type inside a driver References: <199905251120.HAA04710@lakes.dignus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dave > Just a thought - not really an answer to your question... but... > > I struck me that since bt848 isn't in the default kernel (you have > to build your own kernel for it) - couldn't you just make this > a flag in the config file? > > Then, a couple of #ifdef's in the bt848 driver would handle it. Actually, this is how I have implemented it. I have just commited to -current. Great minds think alike. :-) FYI, the linux bt848/bt878 driver is able to probe around and work out for itself that it is on an old triton 430fx board. Bye Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 6:37:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C968156EC for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:37:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17789; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19439; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id JAA05274; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199905251337.JAA05274@lakes.dignus.com> To: rivers@dignus.com, roger@cs.strath.ac.uk Subject: Re: How to find the PCI chipset type inside a driver Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374AA5B4.5D8D22B6@cs.strath.ac.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Dave > > > Just a thought - not really an answer to your question... but... > > > > I struck me that since bt848 isn't in the default kernel (you have > > to build your own kernel for it) - couldn't you just make this > > a flag in the config file? > > > > Then, a couple of #ifdef's in the bt848 driver would handle it. > > Actually, this is how I have implemented it. I have just commited to > -current. > Great minds think alike. :-) > > FYI, the linux bt848/bt878 driver is able to probe around and work out > for itself that it is on an old triton 430fx board. > > Bye > Roger > Just out of curiosity - every now-and-then, when watching TV with my bt848 - the machine will lock up hard... could this be related? I'm not sure what the motherboard is in this machine (the documentation which should be right here appears to have walked off...) But, what are the problems one might expect from this issue? - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 6:47:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D58414D0D for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:47:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA18320; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:47:17 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905251347.XAA18320@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 To: imp@harmony.village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:47:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905250642.AAA00781@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 25, 99 00:42:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Warner Losh, sie said: > > In message <199905250629.QAA14838@cheops.anu.edu.au> Darren Reed writes: > : Does the GENERC (or whatever kernel gets installed for 3.1 by default) > : have pcic devices in it ? > > No. It doesn't. :-( I tried to build a kernel with it in, although I don't know if I got the config correct, but I got a panic when it booted, toward the end of the configuration process: panic: biodone: zero vnode ref count it did, however, correctly identify the PCMCIA chips and the card. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 7:35: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB60C1574B for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA18663; Wed, 26 May 1999 00:34:37 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905251434.AAA18663@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: the invisible 3c589d & 3.1 To: imp@harmony.village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:34:36 +1000 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905250642.AAA00781@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 25, 99 00:42:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Further to this, I did manage to get a kernel compiled and running (dependency checking when compiling without DIAGNOSTIC defined and using LINT as a starting point is not good - lots 'of "DEBUG" things get left without any warning!). Output: ... pcic0: rev 0xc1 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 pcic0: rev 0xc1 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.1 Probing for PnP devices: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: ... PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 3 Initializing PC-card drivers: ed DEVFS: ready to run Card inserted, slot 0 Card inserted, slot 1 Well, I don't believe that the pcic controller is at irq 3 (or is it ?!). When I start up pccardd, I get these messages: No card in database for "3COM"("3CCM156 B")") No card in database for ""("") The first is, I presume, the modem card (this gets reported as com3 on NetBSD), the second, I guess is my 3c589d! What now ?! Who ever heard of invisible PCMCIA cards ?! Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 8:42:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gta.com (mailgate.gta.com [199.120.225.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924A7150D8 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lab@gta.com) Received: from gta.com (GTA internal mail system) by gta.com id LAA07421; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:47:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Baird Message-Id: <199905251547.LAA07421@gta.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the invisible 3c589d & 3.1 X-Newsgroups: freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199905251434.AAA18663@cheops.anu.edu.au> Organization: Global Technology Associates, Inc. User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.8-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199905251434.AAA18663@cheops.anu.edu.au> you wrote: > Further to this, I did manage to get a kernel compiled and running > (dependency checking when compiling without DIAGNOSTIC defined and > using LINT as a starting point is not good - lots 'of "DEBUG" things > get left without any warning!). Output: > ... > pcic0: rev 0xc1 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 > pcic0: rev 0xc1 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.1 > Probing for PnP devices: > Probing for devices on the ISA bus: > ... > PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 3 > Initializing PC-card drivers: ed > DEVFS: ready to run > Card inserted, slot 0 > Card inserted, slot 1 > Well, I don't believe that the pcic controller is at irq 3 (or is it ?!). It is on mine portable as well. PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 3 Initializing PC-card drivers: ep sio > When I start up pccardd, I get these messages: > No card in database for "3COM"("3CCM156 B")") > No card in database for ""("") > The first is, I presume, the modem card (this gets reported as com3 on > NetBSD), the second, I guess is my 3c589d! > What now ?! Who ever heard of invisible PCMCIA cards ?! I am not sure if it is required or not, but to get my 3c589c to work I did three other things. 1) Hardcoded the port number (0x300) and irq (10) for ep0 to match my card in my kernel config file. 2) Hardcoded the irq in /etc/pccard.conf for the config line matching the 3C589 card. 3) Changed the insert line in /pccard.conf to make sure the card came up UTP. Hope this helps. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- //// \\\\ | This momentary escape from the lab brought to you by: ///(* *)\\\ | Larry Baird | Email: lab@gta.com --oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----| Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL /// \\\ | TEL: 407-380-0220 | FAX: 407-380-6080 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 8:49:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3777150D8 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:49:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00656 Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <374AC69E.8A0EA3B1@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:50 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PCI bus chanages from 2.2.x to 3.x/4.x and data corruption. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please read this. It affects our commercial users. I'm trying to find out if/how we initialise the PCI bus and any memory controllers differently in 3.x compared to 2.2.x Since upgrading from 2.2.x to 3.x or 4.x, many many users have noticed garbage on the video grabbed by the bt848 in their Video Conferencing systems. (based on VIC). This has been noticed by some commercial users of FreeBSD as well as Academic users, and it looks bad on us. Luigi has 1 PC with 2 hard disks, a 2.2.x setup and a 3.x setup. This allowed him to factor out all the variables except the 2.2.x kernel and the 3.x kernel. (He used the same Bt848 driver) On 2.2.x VIC runs great. On 3.x there is corruption to the video. Can people who have worked on the PCI bus, changes to bus mastering, perhaps changes to the IDE code (to enable bus mastering) or anything which may influence this get in tough. I posted this problem months ago and got little responce. This is hurting our customers! Bye Roger -- Roger Hardiman Strathclyde Uni Telepresence Research Group, Glasgow, Scotland. http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk 0141 548 2897 roger@cs.strath.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 8:49:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11830151A8 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:49:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from cs.strath.ac.uk (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00659 Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <374AC6A2.7F33F60E@cs.strath.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:54 +0100 From: Roger Hardiman Organization: Strathclyde University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to find the PCI chipset type inside a driver References: <199905251337.JAA05274@lakes.dignus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David, > Just out of curiosity - every now-and-then, when watching TV with my > bt848 - the machine will lock up hard.. Lockups are a possibility with older motherboards where the PCI bus gets overloaded, or on some older SIS, VIA and OPTi motherboards where they did not implement the PCI spec properly when it comes to bus mastering. (the broken SiS/VIA chipsets toggle the PCI control lines incorrectly) Obviously Brooktree decided that SIS and VIA chipsets were sufficiently broken to add extra compatibility hardware into the Bt878 and Bt879. The Bt848 has the MYSTERY_BIT (see the source), which is not defined in the datasheets, but Brooktree told us to set it! It enables the Bt848's 430FX compatibilty mode and a small performance hit. So, your lockups could be due to either a PCI bus saturation or due to an old chipset. To avoid saturation, grab smaller image sizes. That worked for me on my very old VIA chipset embedded systems. Max grab size of 320x256 is stable. You may get better results from changing your BIOS PCI settings. Try turning OFF some of the PCI speedups, like combined writes. This seemed to help one person's stability. Ayway, I still want the driver to determine the motherboard PCI bus chipset for itself. Bye Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 9:19: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles535.castles.com [208.214.165.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E32115300 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03587; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905251616.JAA03587@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Darren Reed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Darren Reed memorial ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 23:47:17 +1000." <199905251347.XAA18320@cheops.anu.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:16:37 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I tried to build a kernel with it in, although I don't know if I got > the config correct, but I got a panic when it booted, toward the end > of the configuration process: > > panic: biodone: zero vnode ref count Darren, I don't know what you've done to your machine, but you get the weirdest and most unhappy-sounding problems I've ever seen. I think we need a "Darren Reed memorial " to commemorate this, as well as your perseverence for not simply giving up and going home. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 9:44:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C408214FD0 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA26365 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:33:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:33:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A bug in namei cache? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Suppose you want to mv a directory file (with subdirectories) to another name (it is like grafting a subtree to another point), the namecache associated with the source directory file will be purged by calling cache_purge() (done in ufs_rename()?). However, the routine cache_purge() does not purge cache entries recursively down the subtree. Will this result in a lot of stale entries in the namecache? FreeBSD 3.1 no longer allows stale entries in the namei cache (FreeBSD 2.2.8 does). Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 10:13:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B651580B for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 10:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA19888; Wed, 26 May 1999 03:13:29 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905251713.DAA19888@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Darren Reed memorial ? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 03:13:28 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905251616.JAA03587@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at May 25, 99 09:16:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Mike Smith, sie said: > > > I tried to build a kernel with it in, although I don't know if I got > > the config correct, but I got a panic when it booted, toward the end > > of the configuration process: > > > > panic: biodone: zero vnode ref count > > Darren, I don't know what you've done to your machine, but you get the > weirdest and most unhappy-sounding problems I've ever seen. I think we > need a "Darren Reed memorial " to commemorate this, as well > as your perseverence for not simply giving up and going home. Put this one down to changing a config file and "make depend" not being as complete as "rm -rf". Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 10:32:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk (puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EBF7915805 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 10:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Received: from seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:29:52 +0100 Received: from localhost (smaraux@localhost) by seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00922; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:31:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:31:47 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastien Maraux To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How to compile a 3.1 kernel with a.out lib In-Reply-To: <199905251616.JAA03587@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How can I do to compile a 3.1 kernel only based on a.out libraries? (I need it to be bootable with netboot.) Thanks. Bye To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 13: 6:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E564D15A28 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA01834 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05744 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:06:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:06:03 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: lpd woes ... missing feature that different printer share same spool Message-ID: <19990525220603.A5481@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ! lpd refuses to startup, if you have multiple entries in /etc/printcap that use the same spooldir. My new apsfilter 5.1.1 has the new feature, that you can print in high, medium and low density by simply typing: lpr -P{low,med,high} For that purpose I need three more entries in printcap, that differ in the name of the input filter, since apsfilter features like print density are invoked by calling apsfilter (the input filter) by different names, but share the same spooldir. But this happens when starting up lpd: root{154} /usr/src lpd chkprintcap: lp8 and lp7 share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color chkprintcap: lp7 and lp6 share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color chkprintcap: lp6 and lp share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color lpd: 3 errors in printcap file, exiting Would it be safe, to modify lpd to tolerate this and only printing out a warning ... ?! Andreas /// printcap entry for reference, see "^^^^^^^^^" # LABEL apsfilter # apsfilter setup Sun May 23 17:27:14 CEST 1999 # # APS_BASEDIR:/usr/local/apsfilter # # ascii|lp1|stcolor-a4-ascii-mono|stcolor ascii mono:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-ascii-mono:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp2|stcolor-a4-auto-mono|stcolor auto mono:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-mono:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp3|stcolor-a4-ascii-color|stcolor ascii color:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-ascii-color:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp|lp4|stcolor-a4-auto-color|stcolor auto color:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: # raw|lp5|stcolor-a4-raw|stcolor auto raw:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-raw:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp6|low|stcolor 180dpi low resolution:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-180x180:\ ^^^^^^^^ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp7|med|stcolor 360dpi medium resolution:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-360x360:\ ^^^^^^^^ :mx#0:\ :sh: # lp8|high|stcolor 720dpi high resolution:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-720x720:\ ^^^^^^^^ :mx#0:\ :sh: -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 13:13:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0A614BE7 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00856 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:11:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905252011.NAA00856@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need a Mylex DAC-960SX in the Bay Area tomorrow... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:11:48 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I realise that this is rather short notice, but we're being asked to participate in a set of benchmarks this week and next, and we'd like to be able to use a SCSI:SCSI RAID controller to level the field a little Evidence suggests that the Mylex units are the way to go here, so I'm fishing to see if we can find a loaner for a week or so rather than rushing out to buy one. Any help would be greatly appreciated... -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 16:45:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D4E15027; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from semen@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (semen@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA08815; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:45:01 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (semen@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07714; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:45:00 +0700 (NSS) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:45:00 +0700 (NSS) From: Ustimenko Semen To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: HPFS driver for FreeBSD needs testers. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! There is a driver to read from HPFS partition at: http://iclub.nsu.ru/~semen/hpfs/hpfs-0.2b.tgz Testers are welcome. Bye. P.S. We can put it in current, and i'll support it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 16:54:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw1.tesys.com (gw1.tesys.com [207.5.58.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B45515342 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billy@tesys.com) Received: from bb2 ([207.5.58.7]) by gw1.tesys.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18966; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990525165400.0096c390@gw1.tesys.com> X-Sender: billy@gw1.tesys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:54:00 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Billy Bath x102 Subject: Re: Need a Mylex DAC-960SX in the Bay Area tomorrow... (fwd) Cc: aj@tesys.com, dale@tesys.com, raj@tesys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Mike We would be happy to provide you any kind of loaner. Please let us know what we can do. thanks.. cheers,,bb At 04:37 PM 5/25/99 -0700, Cliff Skolnick wrote: > >I'm not sure who this is for - it was sent to a freebsd developers list. >Might get a good plug for telenet, of course it may be too much of a pin >also. > >-- >Cliff Skolnick | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain >Steam Tunnel Operations | a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty >cliff@steam.com | nor safety." >http://www.steam.com/ | -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:11:48 -0700 >From: Mike Smith >To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Need a Mylex DAC-960SX in the Bay Area tomorrow... > > >I realise that this is rather short notice, but we're being asked to >participate in a set of benchmarks this week and next, and we'd like to >be able to use a SCSI:SCSI RAID controller to level the field a little > >Evidence suggests that the Mylex units are the way to go here, so I'm >fishing to see if we can find a loaner for a week or so rather than >rushing out to buy one. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated... > >-- >\\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith >\\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 18: 1: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E848914D8B for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from tsdev (tsdev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.119]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA03606 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by tsdev (SMI-8.6/) id SAA22582 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:01:05 -0700 Message-ID: <19990525180105.A17170@tsdev.inktomi.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:01:05 -0700 From: John Plevyak To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mbuf leak Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In 3.2-STABLE as of a few days ago, there is the potential for an mbuf leak in tcp_usr_send if sotoinpcb(so) == NULL. The COMMON_START code does not take into account the semantics of tcp_usr_send which requires 'm' to be free'd if it is not NULL. john -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 310, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(650)653-2830 F:(650)653-2889 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 18: 9: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69A914D8B for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA93769 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905260109.VAA93769@cs.rpi.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kernel debugging assistance Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:09:02 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to trace down the cause of the recursive lock and I stumbled upon this: (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xc014b3f4 in at_shutdown ( function=0xc0234aca <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+154>, arg=0x10002, queue=-951064448) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xc01470f8 in lockmgr (lkp=0xc10d8f00, flags=16842754, interlkp=0xc74fe8f0, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 #4 0xc01e4fad in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #5 0xc0175d97 in vn_lock (vp=0xc74fe880, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20) at vnode_if.h:811 #6 0xc016f93f in vget (vp=0xc74fe880, flags=2, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 #7 0xc016bac7 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 #8 0xc01e4fad in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #9 0xc016e079 in lookup (ndp=0xc7482d94) at vnode_if.h:31 #10 0xc01b769c in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7482d94, fhp=0xc7482d0c, len=3, slp=0xc0f7e600, nam=0xc0f54200, mdp=0xc7482c48, dposp=0xc7482c44, retdirp=0xc7482c2c, p=0xc743eb20, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 #11 0xc01a068f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc1185700, slp=0xc0f7e600, procp=0xc743eb20, mrq=0xc7482e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 #12 0xc01b90f6 in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7482e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743eb20) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 #13 0xc01b8a11 in nfssvc (p=0xc743eb20, uap=0xc7482f94) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 #14 0xc020bd5f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951570460, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #15 0xc0202b8c in Xint0x80_syscall () #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () (kgdb) up 3 #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 209 return (lockmgr(l, ap->a_flags, &ap->a_vp->v_interlock, ap->a_p)); (kgdb) print ap $1 = (struct vop_lock_args *) 0x0 (kgdb) That doesn't seem to be possible, especially since ap->FOO is used in the same line.. wouldn't that cause a fault at this point? (it isn't the panic occurs later as you can see.) -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 19:41:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.18.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F114E01 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.C662FD40@mailer.syr.edu>; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26232; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: Mike Smith Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mmap of a network buffer In-Reply-To: <199905250643.XAA00833@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > There's also very little need for this under "real" circumstances; some > > > simple tests have demonstrated we can sustain about 800Mbps throughput > > > (UDP), and the bottleneck here seems to be checksum calculations, not > > > copyin/out. > > > > > > > Oddly enough, I was just getting ready to implement something like this. > > Not because of copyin performance issues, but because async io for sockets > > could be done better if I didn't have to do a copyin. copyin has to have > > curproc==(proc with the buffer from which to copy) > > That's basically right. You have three options: > > - Switch to process context to access process data; this allows you to > take page faults in controlled circumstances (eg. copyin). > - Wire the process' pages into the kernel so you don't have to fault. > - Copy the user data into kernel space in an efficient fashion. Glad to know that my understanding wasn't too far off-base. > > which means that I have > > to do a context switch for every socket buffer sized chunk (best case) or > > every io op (worst case). > > It sounds like your buffering is not efficient. Well, I'd be happy if I could be convinced that were the problem, but protocols like HTTP and NNTP which have short, rapid-fire (sometimes lock-step) command sequences don't help the buffering any. This means that reading commands of an incoming connection causes many, many context switches between an aiod and the main process doing async io. On the outgoing side, in the optimal case of sending large blocks of data, I don't have control over the buffering--the aiod essentially impersonates my process, going to sleep in the socket write routines, context switching to it when a copyin is necessary. I could exert more control by metering my writes so that they fit into socket buffers and avoid the switches, but that increases the number of system calls, so I'm not sure how much of a win it ends up. Plus, I hope that I will get some added advantage out of constructing a zero-copy write (not that I've had any throughput troubles). > > My hope was to map the user's buffer into kernel space so that I could do > > event driven io on the socket without having to context switch to an aiod > > for every io operation. Is this really a bad idea? I am a little > > concerned about running out of kernel address space, but I don't think > > that's an immediate problem. > > If you map into the kernel, you still have to context switch unless you > wire the data down. Excessive wiring can be expensive. Have a look at > how physio() does it's thing. Will do. There's some of that code in the async io routines now, for dealing with raw io operations--I hoped to borrow from that to implement my stuff. > > Such an implementation would lend itself to doing zero-copy writes async > > writes with some frobbing of the send routines. It would also bypass some > > of the messing around done to do socket buffers--that is, there would not > > be a limit per se on socket buffering for writes since they would be > > mapped user space. One might want to put arbitrary limits in place to > > ensure that an unreasonable amount of memory isn't locked. > > > > Thoughts? > > Sounds a lot like sendfile. See if you can't improve on it to do eg. > sendmem(). Yes. I'd like mine to be async rather than synchronous, though. I've considered creating an async sendfile too. (Actually, I've been thinking about extending the async io code to allow calling any syscall async, but there are other complexities there...). -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 19:52: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4711014E01; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:51:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA09734; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:21:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA00975; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:21:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:21:50 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Visiting Hong Kong and China Message-ID: <19990526122150.A941@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll be in Hong Kong on Sunday, the 31st May, and in Beijing on the 1st June. After that, I'll be traveling round most of China. If anybody is interested in getting together, please contact me, and we'll see what we can do. Make sure to copy me: I've unsubscribed from most mailing lists for the duration. For those who are expecting to see me at USENIX: yes, I'll be there :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 20:42: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C751314D65 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11848 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Jane-Ellen Long: summarizers for FREENIX Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:43:02 -0700 Message-ID: <11844.927690182@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone here going to USENIX who'd also like to trade a free registration in exchange for playing "scribe" for the FREENIX track at the USENIX technical conference this year? http://www.usenix.org for details. - Jordan ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:09:53 -0800 To: freenix-committee@usenix.ORG From: Jane-Ellen Long Subject: summarizers for FREENIX Help, please. Could you suggest people to summarize the Monterey FREENIX sessions for ;login:? We can offer a complimentary registration to anyone who's willing to summarize a significant number of sessions, i.e., at least a full day's worth of sessions. We print the session summaries in ;login:, of course, signed by the summarizer, and we also mount them on the Web both as part of ;login: and as part of the Event pages for that conference. It's good publicity for the summarizer and for the conference--everyone wins. Please send any possible prospects to me ASAP. Thanks! - -- Jane-Ellen Jane-Ellen Long, Publications Director, USENIX 510 528 8649 | fax 510 548 5738 | jel@usenix.org ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 22:33:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69731507A for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1/3) with ESMTP id HAA05107 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:33:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.2/8.6.9) id FAA04460 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:33:46 GMT Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 05:33:46 GMT From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199905260533.FAA04460@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: suggestion for improvement - kernel.GENERIC Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I upgraded to 3.1 and found that the GENERIC kernel does not contain ccd. Has ccd changed from say 2.2.5 to 3.1? Building a 3.1 ccd kernel left me with the ccd device unreadable (cannot access Block 16 or something when fsck'ing). -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 22:38:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E7215134 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05034; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990525223822.C4843@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:38:22 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Wes Peters , Darren Reed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3c589d and FreeBSD 3.1 Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199905241208.WAA04399@cheops.anu.edu.au> <3749B04E.B1D70CC0@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3749B04E.B1D70CC0@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, May 24, 1999 at 02:02:22PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I compiled the ISC DHCP client seperately, since the port was marked > broken in 3.1, but I see it's been fixed in 3.2. You should not have needed to do that -- see /sbin/dhclient. (ie, the ISC DHCP client has been part of the base system since just before 3.1-RELEASE). Enjoy! -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 22:42: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400DB14FC6 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05064; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:57 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199905232311.RAA14737@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905232311.RAA14737@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 05:11:43PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any reason to have getopt.c replicated in so many different > programs: > cvs, grep, gzip, patch, ptx, sort, tar > and maybe a few others that I missed... for src/contrib/ we try not to dink too much with the code. Otherwise the maintance can get heavy. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 22:50: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF6315134 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05099; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990525224925.E4843@nuxi.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:25 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990522092026.C60647@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Filipi-Martin on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:31:54PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil > > the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? > > Just about. Did a make release for local internal use. Is there a > slightly newer CVS tag other than RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE that gets us all we > need to build completely functional COMPATxx's? Jordan just slid the "RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE" forward to include my changes to compat22 that match the hand-hacked versions on the CDROM/FTP site. One should now be able to build a duplicate 3.2-RELEASE. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 25 23:29:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE5514CA2 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA75826 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:29:05 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Pccard support Message-ID: <19990525232905.B75747@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there a FAQ or web page that explains how to get pccard support going. I got a dell laptop from work and a couple of psmcia ethernet cards, a Linksys EtherFast 10/100 and a 3com 10/100. I spent a number of hours jerking around with this and I think I have make a complete muddle of this. Any advice? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 1: 8:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F2B14D09 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28949; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:08:44 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00583; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:14:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905260714.IAA00583@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 22:49:25 PDT." <19990525224925.E4843@nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:14:42 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Why? The compat22 distribution on the FTP site has ld.so in it, as wil > > > the CDROM. Did you install 3.2 on the very first day? > > > > Just about. Did a make release for local internal use. Is there a > > slightly newer CVS tag other than RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE that gets us all we > > need to build completely functional COMPATxx's? > > Jordan just slid the "RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE" forward to include my changes > to compat22 that match the hand-hacked versions on the CDROM/FTP site. > > One should now be able to build a duplicate 3.2-RELEASE. Did I see a commit to 3.2's ERRATA.TXT that needs to be backed out now ? > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 1:12:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A3715351 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:12:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA05683; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990526011121.B5373@nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 01:11:21 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Brian Somers Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [ALERT] a.out support is broken in 3.2-STABLE and 4.0-CURRENT Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990525224925.E4843@nuxi.com> <199905260714.IAA00583@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905260714.IAA00583@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 08:14:42AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Jordan just slid the "RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE" forward to include my changes > > to compat22 that match the hand-hacked versions on the CDROM/FTP site. > > > > One should now be able to build a duplicate 3.2-RELEASE. > > Did I see a commit to 3.2's ERRATA.TXT that needs to be backed out now? Nope. The errata commit I made was that the compat20 and compat21 distributions unpack into the wrong place. A mostly independent issue from the lack of ld.so in the 1st rolling of 3.2-RELEASE. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 1:18: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63DD15351 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA85677; Wed, 26 May 1999 02:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA00699; Wed, 26 May 1999 02:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905260816.CAA00699@harmony.village.org> To: obrien@NUXI.com Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 22:41:57 PDT." <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> References: <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> <199905232311.RAA14737@harmony.village.org> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 02:16:35 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> "David O'Brien" writes: : for src/contrib/ we try not to dink too much with the code. Otherwise : the maintance can get heavy. Right, however in the past things like libreadline have been "culled" from the various places that have it into its own place. All of the programs listed, except cvs, were not under contrib. I was thinking of factoring out gnugetopt into a libgnugetopt under contrib, so we just have one copy of it, rather than 10 zillion. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 1:23:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A9A15447 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:23:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA05738; Wed, 26 May 1999 01:23:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Message-ID: <19990526012320.C5373@nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 01:23:20 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> <199905232311.RAA14737@harmony.village.org> <19990525224157.D4843@nuxi.com> <199905260816.CAA00699@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905260816.CAA00699@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 02:16:35AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-BETA Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > All of the programs listed, except cvs, were not under contrib. They will be on the next upgrade. :-) > I was thinking of factoring out gnugetopt into a libgnugetopt under > contrib It would be better to create src/gnu/lib/libgnugetopt/Makefile and point ".PATH:" to the newest src file we have in the tree. If some package gets updated and there is a newer GNUgetopt(), then we change the ".PATH:". JDP suggested this is a cleaner way than extracting part of a GNU package, and I have to agree with him. (I am considering something simular with libiberty and libbfd) -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 4:36:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E1F9151F1 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 04:36:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA06999; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:24:45 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905251124.NAA06999@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback To: karl@Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:24:45 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nugundam@la.best.com.denninger.net, des@flood.ping.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990525082055.B43883@Denninger.Net> from "Karl Denninger" at May 25, 99 08:20:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Uh, the Ensoniq board is an ISA card, everything else in the system > (except the Digiboard) is a PCI card. not only that. Am i mistaken or you started having such problems after an upgrade to a recent version of FreeBSD ? luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 5: 5:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk (puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 747A814D76 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:05:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Received: from seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA) with ESMTP; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:03:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (smaraux@localhost) by seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04168 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:04:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:04:54 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastien Maraux To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BIND and IPv6 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG has anybody heard of an IPv6 option in BIND 8.2 configuration file. It's not documented in the configuration guide, but I would need it if it exists. Thanks to forward it on another mailng list if hackers is not the good one for it. Byeeeeee Sebastien MARAUX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 5:48:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B631B150EA for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA98582 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:48:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00647 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:48:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905261248.NAA00647@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Interface UP & RUNNING flags Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:48:16 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Can someone tell me the difference between the IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING flags ? Currently, the tun pseudo-device never bothers removing the RUNNING flag. This can easily be fixed with Index: if_tun.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/net/if_tun.c,v retrieving revision 1.55 diff -u -r1.55 if_tun.c --- if_tun.c 1999/05/06 18:12:54 1.55 +++ if_tun.c 1999/05/26 12:30:55 @@ -210,6 +210,13 @@ } splx(s); } + + if (ifp->if_flags & IFF_RUNNING) { + s = splimp(); + ifp->if_flags &= ~IFF_RUNNING; + splx(s); + } + funsetown(tp->tun_sigio); selwakeup(&tp->tun_rsel); But is this the right fix ? Should IFF_RUNNING be removed with the last address - for *all* interfaces ? Cheers. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 6: 5:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jazz.viagenie.qc.ca (jazz.viagenie.qc.ca [206.123.31.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34F9155B1 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from parent@viagenie.qc.ca) Received: from blues.viagenie.qc.ca (blues.viagenie.qc.ca [206.123.31.135]) by jazz.viagenie.qc.ca (Viagenie/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03029; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from parent@localhost) by blues.viagenie.qc.ca (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA02425; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca (Florent Parent) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <14155.61714.337117.735580@blues.viagenie.qc.ca> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:03:14 -0400 (EDT) To: Sebastien Maraux Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BIND and IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.70 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sebastien, IPv6 records are supported since BIND 4.9.5 (AAAA records). If you are looking for a named server that listens on an IPv6 socket, look at the bind patch on http://www.kame.net Florent. Sebastien Maraux writes: > has anybody heard of an IPv6 option in BIND 8.2 configuration file. > It's not documented in the configuration guide, but I would need it if it > exists. > Thanks to forward it on another mailng list if hackers is not the good one > for it. > Byeeeeee > Sebastien MARAUX > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Florent Parent Florent.Parent@viagenie.qc.ca Viagénie inc. http://www.viagenie.qc.ca 3107 des hôtels tél.: 418-656-9254 Ste-Foy, Québec, Canada, G1W 4W5 fax.: 418-656-0183 PGP RSA = D2 EE 61 51 D7 49 0D 07 69 BE AA 47 1D F4 6D F4 PGP DH/DSS = B718 4543 977C BE73 2BCC 23D5 3E20 4FC9 2A90 872C Internet Engineering Standards/Normes d'ingénierie Internet http://www.normos.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 6: 8:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818CA14FF7 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id IAA47097; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:07:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990526080710.A47093@Denninger.Net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:07:10 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: nugundam@la.best.com.denninger.net, des@flood.ping.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New one - mp3 "clicks" during playback References: <19990525082055.B43883@Denninger.Net> <199905251124.NAA06999@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905251124.NAA06999@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Tue, May 25, 1999 at 01:24:45PM +0200 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 01:24:45PM +0200, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > Uh, the Ensoniq board is an ISA card, everything else in the system > > (except the Digiboard) is a PCI card. > > not only that. Am i mistaken or you started having such problems after > an upgrade to a recent version of FreeBSD ? No. I have two machines; both show the symptoms. One is running CURRENT, the other RELEASE. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 6:41: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C28152F2 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-73-205.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.73.205]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08526; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA28971; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:42:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199905261342.JAA28971@bellsouth.net> To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 01:23:20 PDT." <19990526012320.C5373@nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:42:45 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It would be better to create src/gnu/lib/libgnugetopt/Makefile and point > ".PATH:" to the newest src file we have in the tree. If some package > gets updated and there is a newer GNUgetopt(), then we change the > ".PATH:". JDP suggested this is a cleaner way than extracting part of a > GNU package, and I have to agree with him. (I am considering something > simular with libiberty and libbfd) Cygnus cautions against merging libiberty/libbfd from binutils with GDB. Never made sense to me tho... :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 6:41:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B542F15607 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA08211; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:38:50 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905261038.MAA08211@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PCI bus chanages from 2.2.x to 3.x/4.x and data corruption. To: roger@cs.strath.ac.uk (Roger Hardiman) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:38:50 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374AC69E.8A0EA3B1@cs.strath.ac.uk> from "Roger Hardiman" at May 25, 99 04:49:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1709 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Please read this. It affects our commercial users. > > I'm trying to find out if/how we initialise the PCI bus and any > memory controllers differently in 3.x compared to 2.2.x > > Since upgrading from 2.2.x to 3.x or 4.x, many many users have > noticed garbage on the video grabbed by the bt848 in their > Video Conferencing systems. (based on VIC). and not only that -- vic just makes things evident because the corruption causes a huge image update to be sent thus waiting a bit before sending the next frame. > This has been noticed by some commercial users of FreeBSD as well as > Academic users, and it looks bad on us. > > Luigi has 1 PC with 2 hard disks, a 2.2.x setup and a 3.x setup. > This allowed him to factor out all the variables except the > 2.2.x kernel and the 3.x kernel. (He used the same Bt848 driver) > > On 2.2.x VIC runs great. > On 3.x there is corruption to the video. and to be more precise, this is happening on at least 4 different PCs, of different vintages and speeds -- only thing in common is the use of 3.1R vs 2.2.anything. As a matter of fact i am right now reinstalling a 2.2.x on a machine just because i need to do an MBone broadcast and the video corruptions are not tolerable! cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 6:47:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from well.apcs.com.au (well.apcs.com.au [203.41.122.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324CC14E4C for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@well.apcs.com.au) Received: (from keith@localhost) by well.apcs.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA68266 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:41:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:41:59 +1000 (EST) From: Keith Anderson To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: serial ports Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All Could someone point me in the correct direction for help with 'c' Some examples for opening a serial port for comms. Opening tcp connections for use with mysql. I'm a programer from the 70's (DOS) and learning FBSD. Thanks Keith "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD." ** The thing I like most about Windows 98 is... ** You can download FreeBSD with it! ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Keith Anderson Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. Date: 26-May-99 Time: 23:34:29 Satelite Service 64K to 2Meg This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- What's the similarity between an air conditioner and a computer? They both stop working when you open windows. ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 7:16: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A8B156CE for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21024 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:15:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:15:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: tsleep returns -1? Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey folks, I saw this in my syslogs yesterday: May 25 11:25:08 lambic /kernel: tsleep returns -1 May 25 11:25:18 lambic /kernel: timeout flushing dbuf_out, chan 1 cnt 0x222 flags 0x00000241 [...] May 25 15:16:01 lambic /kernel: tsleep returns -1 May 25 15:16:11 lambic /kernel: timeout flushing dbuf_out, chan 1 cnt 0x222 flags 0x00000241 May 25 15:16:40 lambic /kernel: tsleep returns -1 May 25 15:16:50 lambic /kernel: timeout flushing dbuf_out, chan 1 cnt 0x222 flags 0x00000241 This is a new development, I'm not sure what this is or where to start looking to sort this out. Any suggestions? Thanks, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 7:39:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arc.hq.cti.ru (arc.hq.cti.ru [195.34.40.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1474114C1B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tejblum@arc.hq.cti.ru) Received: from arc.hq.cti.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arc.hq.cti.ru (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA12649; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:39:05 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199905261439.SAA12649@arc.hq.cti.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "David E. Cross" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel debugging assistance In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 21:09:02 EDT." <199905260109.VAA93769@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:39:05 +0400 From: Dmitrij Tejblum Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am trying to trace down the cause of the recursive lock and I stumbled upon > this: > > (kgdb) bt > #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 > #1 0xc014b3f4 in at_shutdown ( > function=0xc0234aca <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+154>, arg=0x10002, queue=-951064448) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 > #2 0xc01470f8 in lockmgr (lkp=0xc10d8f00, flags=16842754, > interlkp=0xc74fe8f0, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 > #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 > #4 0xc01e4fad in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a64) > at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 > #5 0xc0175d97 in vn_lock (vp=0xc74fe880, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20) > at vnode_if.h:811 [...] > (kgdb) up 3 > #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 > 209 return (lockmgr(l, ap->a_flags, &ap->a_vp->v_interlock, ap->a_p)); > (kgdb) print ap > $1 = (struct vop_lock_args *) 0x0 This is just a glitch in gdb. The true value of ap is here: > #3 0xc016cfbc in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a64) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:209 ^^^^^^^^^^ I don't think that this dump is useful for debugging this problem. Perhaps, if you compile the kernel with DEBUG_LOCKS, you will get more useful info. Dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 7:46:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF1514C1B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01277; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <374C08F3.37FCBC53@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:45:07 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Darren Reed memorial ? References: <199905251616.JAA03587@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > I tried to build a kernel with it in, although I don't know if I got > > the config correct, but I got a panic when it booted, toward the end > > of the configuration process: > > > > panic: biodone: zero vnode ref count > > Darren, I don't know what you've done to your machine, but you get the > weirdest and most unhappy-sounding problems I've ever seen. I think we > need a "Darren Reed memorial " to commemorate this, as well > as your perseverence for not simply giving up and going home. The Darren Reed Memorial Pointy Hat? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 7:53:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D871114C1B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:53:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id QAA23854; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:52:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:52:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Wes Peters Cc: Mike Smith , Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Darren Reed memorial ? In-Reply-To: <374C08F3.37FCBC53@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Darren, I don't know what you've done to your machine, but you get the > > weirdest and most unhappy-sounding problems I've ever seen. I think we > > need a "Darren Reed memorial " to commemorate this, as well > > as your perseverence for not simply giving up and going home. > > The Darren Reed Memorial Pointy Hat? ;^) What about an extra tag before a release? 3.3-DARREN 3.3-BETA 3.3-RELEASE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 8:56:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cybersites.com (unknown [207.92.123.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0DE153A4 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyouse@cybersites.com) Received: from f8m7n1 (dhcp77.cybersites.com [207.92.123.77]) by ns1.cybersites.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28964; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: <004001bea78f$eca12be0$4d7b5ccf@f8m7n1> From: "Chuck Youse" To: , "Brian Somers" Subject: Re: Interface UP & RUNNING flags Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:53:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG IFF_RUNNING indicates that "resources are allocated for this device", i.e., everything's ready to go. IFF_UP provides an administrative control over the operational status of the device. Chuck Youse Director of Systems cyouse@cybersites.com -----Original Message----- From: Brian Somers To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: Interface UP & RUNNING flags >Hi, > >Can someone tell me the difference between the IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING >flags ? > >Currently, the tun pseudo-device never bothers removing the RUNNING >flag. This can easily be fixed with > >Index: if_tun.c >=================================================================== >RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/net/if_tun.c,v >retrieving revision 1.55 >diff -u -r1.55 if_tun.c >--- if_tun.c 1999/05/06 18:12:54 1.55 >+++ if_tun.c 1999/05/26 12:30:55 >@@ -210,6 +210,13 @@ > } > splx(s); > } >+ >+ if (ifp->if_flags & IFF_RUNNING) { >+ s = splimp(); >+ ifp->if_flags &= ~IFF_RUNNING; >+ splx(s); >+ } >+ > funsetown(tp->tun_sigio); > selwakeup(&tp->tun_rsel); > > >But is this the right fix ? Should IFF_RUNNING be removed with the >last address - for *all* interfaces ? > >Cheers. >-- >Brian > >Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 8:58:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com (gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C5191153A4 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:58:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com; id LAA15302; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:00:59 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com(unknown 151.145.101.161) by gatewaya via smap (V2.1) id xma015170; Wed, 26 May 99 11:00:48 -0500 Received: by stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Keith Anderson'" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: serial ports Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, the serial devices are not typically used for TCP traffic, but you should look at ioctl(3), read(3), write(3), socket(3), bind(3), listen(3), send(3), recv(3) for starters. The tty devices are treated as files. Remember, in UNIX everything is a file unless it isn't. The ethernet cards, which cropped up after the 70s and which are not treated as files, are accustomed to TCP traffic. You might want to have a look at these instead. > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Anderson [SMTP:keith@apcs.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 8:42 AM > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: serial ports > > Dear All > > Could someone point me in the correct direction for help with 'c' > > Some examples for opening a serial port for comms. > Opening tcp connections for use with mysql. > > I'm a programer from the 70's (DOS) and learning FBSD. > > > Thanks > > Keith > > > > "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD." > > ** The thing I like most about Windows 98 is... > ** You can download FreeBSD with it! > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Keith Anderson > Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. > Date: 26-May-99 > Time: 23:34:29 > Satelite Service 64K to 2Meg > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- > > What's the similarity between an air > conditioner and a computer? They both > stop working when you open windows. > > ---------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 9:14: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D8F14F3A for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:14:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pb@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12193 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:14:03 +0200 From: Peter Brevik Received: (pb@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id SAA22845 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:14:01 +0200 Message-Id: <199905261614.SAA22845@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: RS232 status read ioctl (RI,DSR,CTS etc..) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:14:01 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am programming a rs232 device (driver) which is using the status line's rather than the tx/rx lines to control the device. I have succedded without any problem to send signals by using the ioctl's described in "man 4 tty" man page. There is a ioctl called "TIOCMGET" which is intended asfaik to read these status lines. However this seems not to be the case. By printf's in kernel sio driver I found out that the sio.c driver will only actually read the status register from the chip at opening of the device. And it seems the bits in the resulting code does not correspond to what actually are physicaly on the rs232 connector anyway. I would not like to use brute force, like inb()/outb() commands.. Any suggestions on how to get TIOCMGET ioctl() to work as intended ..? /Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 9:50:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from voland.anet.donetsk.ua (voland.donin.com [195.206.224.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A500C14E4F; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@donin.com) Received: from azazello (azazello.donin.com [195.206.224.38]) by voland.anet.donetsk.ua (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20768; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:50:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from bob@donin.com) Message-Id: <199905261650.TAA20768@voland.anet.donetsk.ua> From: "Vladimir A. Pokatilov" To: Cc: Subject: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:50:59 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Help !!! Anybody know . where is bug in kernel configuration , in cy0 driver or in my hands I have multiprocessor machine: matherboard SOYO 5TX2/X5 with 2 intel 166 proceccors multiport card Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep Kernel config: options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O options NCPU=2 # number of CPUs options NBUS=2 # number of busses All good work until somthing do start to send to /dev/cXX Then kernel panic and reboot !!! All good working under single processor kernel ... no problem mptable: ============================================================================ === MPTable, version 2.0.15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- MP Floating Pointer Structure: location: BIOS physical address: 0x000f0d20 signature: '_MP_' length: 16 bytes version: 1.1 checksum: 0x53 mode: Virtual Wire ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- MP Config Table Header: physical address: 0x000f0d34 signature: 'PCMP' base table length: 292 version: 1.1 checksum: 0xd5 OEM ID: 'OEM00000' Product ID: 'PROD00000000' OEM table pointer: 0x00000000 OEM table size: 0 entry count: 28 local APIC address: 0xfee00000 extended table length: 0 extended table checksum: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- MP Config Base Table Entries: -- Processors: APIC ID Version State Family Model Step Flags 0 0x11 BSP, usable 5 2 1 0x07bf 1 0x11 AP, usable 5 2 1 0x07bf -- Bus: Bus ID Type 0 ISA 1 PCI -- I/O APICs: APIC ID Version State Address 2 0x11 usable 0xfec00000 -- I/O Ints: Type Polarity Trigger Bus ID IRQ APIC ID PIN# ExtINT conforms conforms 0 0 2 0 INT conforms conforms 0 1 2 1 INT conforms conforms 0 0 2 2 INT conforms conforms 0 3 2 3 INT conforms conforms 0 4 2 4 INT conforms conforms 0 5 2 5 INT conforms conforms 0 6 2 6 INT conforms conforms 0 7 2 7 INT conforms conforms 0 8 2 8 INT conforms conforms 0 9 2 9 INT conforms conforms 0 10 2 10 INT conforms conforms 0 11 2 11 INT conforms conforms 0 12 2 12 INT conforms conforms 0 13 2 13 INT conforms conforms 0 14 2 14 INT conforms conforms 0 15 2 15 INT active-lo level 1 14:A 2 16 INT active-lo level 1 15:A 2 17 INT active-lo level 1 16:A 2 18 INT active-lo level 1 17:A 2 19 SMI conforms conforms 0 0 2 23 -- Local Ints: Type Polarity Trigger Bus ID IRQ APIC ID PIN# ExtINT active-hi edge 0 0 255 0 NMI active-hi edge 0 0 255 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- # SMP kernel config file options: # Required: options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O # Optional (built-in defaults will work in most cases): #options NCPU=2 # number of CPUs #options NBUS=2 # number of busses #options NAPIC=1 # number of IO APICs #options NINTR=24 # number of INTs ============================================================================ === To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10: 0:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EE6115786 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA02206 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:59:47 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905261659.CAA02206@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: adding pcmcia cards To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 02:59:46 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having finally got pccardd to configure the card, it doesn't seem to get the correct IRQ, nor does it deal well with the card being ejected whilst in use (freezes the box). Neither is pccardd started by default, which seems strange if you have a /etc/pccardd.conf file. Anyway, I've also got a 3CCM156B card here, the config entry in pccard.conf is as follows: io 0x400-0x4ff irq 9 13 memory 0xd4000 96k card "3COM" "3CCM156 B" config 0x21 "sio2" ? insert echo 3Com PCMCIA 56K Modem inserted remove echo 3Com PCMCIA 56K Modem removed but whenever I load it in, I get: pccard[]: resource allocation failure for 3COM I've defined sio0 & sio1 in the kernel config (both get probed and used, one is serial, the other is FIR) as well as this option: options "EXTRA_SIO=2" I've checked that an IRQ is free by inserting and removing ep0 which informs me that IRQ9 gets returned but to no avail. What next ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10: 8:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564B5155D0 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from torrey.cs.utah.edu (torrey.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.91]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15187; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from danderse@localhost) by torrey.cs.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA85731; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:08:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "David G. Andersen" To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lpd woes ... missing feature that different printer share same spool In-Reply-To: Andreas Klemm's message of Tue, May 25 1999 <19990525220603.A5481@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990525220603.A5481@titan.klemm.gtn.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14156.10638.531747.843524@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thankfully, the problem isn't in lpd, it's in chkprintcap. Index: chkprintcap.c =================================================================== RCS file: /n/marker/usr/lsrc/FreeBSD/CVS/src/usr.sbin/lpr/chkprintcap/chkprintcap.c,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -r1.2 chkprintcap.c *** chkprintcap.c 1997/12/06 05:37:18 1.2 --- chkprintcap.c 1999/05/18 22:11:58 *************** *** 114,120 **** --- 114,122 ---- if (interpret_error(pp, error) && more) goto next; } + #if 0 check_spool_dirs(); + #endif return problems; } Works like a charm here - we have about 15 aliases for the same printer (simplex, duplex, input bins, output bins, staple, etc). There may be some danger in doing this, but we haven't really run in to problems with it. (*) -Dave (*) - we do have a problem whereby two jobs for different settings of the printer can end up shifting the input/output bin of the other job. I haven't bothered to look in to it yet to figure out if it's because of the spool directory; I think it's instead a problem with our printer setup script. Lo and Behold, Andreas Klemm said: > Hi ! > > lpd refuses to startup, if you have multiple entries in /etc/printcap > that use the same spooldir. > > My new apsfilter 5.1.1 has the new feature, that you can print in > high, medium and low density by simply typing: > lpr -P{low,med,high} > > For that purpose I need three more entries in printcap, that differ > in the name of the input filter, since apsfilter features like > print density are invoked by calling apsfilter (the input filter) > by different names, but share the same spooldir. > > But this happens when starting up lpd: > root{154} /usr/src lpd > chkprintcap: lp8 and lp7 share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color > chkprintcap: lp7 and lp6 share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color > chkprintcap: lp6 and lp share the same spool, /var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color > lpd: 3 errors in printcap file, exiting > > Would it be safe, to modify lpd to tolerate this and only printing > out a warning ... ?! > > Andreas /// > > printcap entry for reference, see "^^^^^^^^^" > > > # LABEL apsfilter > # apsfilter setup Sun May 23 17:27:14 CEST 1999 > # > # APS_BASEDIR:/usr/local/apsfilter > # > # > ascii|lp1|stcolor-a4-ascii-mono|stcolor ascii mono:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono:\ > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-mono/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-ascii-mono:\ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp2|stcolor-a4-auto-mono|stcolor auto mono:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono:\ > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-mono/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-mono:\ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp3|stcolor-a4-ascii-color|stcolor ascii color:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color:\ > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-ascii-color/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-ascii-color:\ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp|lp4|stcolor-a4-auto-color|stcolor auto color:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > raw|lp5|stcolor-a4-raw|stcolor auto raw:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw:\ > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-raw/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-raw:\ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp6|low|stcolor 180dpi low resolution:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-180x180:\ > ^^^^^^^^ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp7|med|stcolor 360dpi medium resolution:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-360x360:\ > ^^^^^^^^ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > # > lp8|high|stcolor 720dpi high resolution:\ > :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ > :sd=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color:\ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ same spooldir needed > :lf=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/log:\ > :af=/var/spool/lpd/stcolor-a4-auto-color/acct:\ > :if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-stcolor-a4-auto-color-720x720:\ > ^^^^^^^^ > :mx#0:\ > :sh: > > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html > powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Computer Science - Flux Research Group "What's footnote FIVE?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:42:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from netcom12.netcom.com (netcom12.netcom.com [192.100.81.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D3C157A7 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@netcom.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom12.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id KAA28165; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:42:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Jr Message-Id: <199905261742.KAA28165@netcom12.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: PCI Bus and bt848 driver... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Try booting -v and post the output. also uncomment the following printf : #if defined( STATUS_SUM ) /* add any new device status or INTerrupt status bits */ status_sum |= (bktr_status & ~(BT848_INT_RSV0|BT848_INT_RSV1)); status_sum |= ((dstatus & (BT848_DSTATUS_COF|BT848_DSTATUS_LOF)) << 6); #endif /* STATUS_SUM */ /* printf( " STATUS %x %x %x \n", dstatus, bktr_status, bt848->risc_count ); */ run vic and mail back the last 200 hundred or so lines. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:45:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97F7915512 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA09380; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:18:26 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905261518.RAA09380@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PCI Bus and bt848 driver... To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:18:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905261742.KAA28165@netcom12.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at May 26, 99 10:41:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1266 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Try booting -v and post the output. amancio, what do you expect to see from this, considering that on the same hardware things work ? also note that the amount of output generated by the printf is likely to cause even more problems... cheers luigi > also uncomment the following printf : > > #if defined( STATUS_SUM ) > /* add any new device status or INTerrupt status bits */ > status_sum |= (bktr_status & ~(BT848_INT_RSV0|BT848_INT_RSV1)); > status_sum |= ((dstatus & (BT848_DSTATUS_COF|BT848_DSTATUS_LOF)) << 6); > #endif /* STATUS_SUM */ > /* printf( " STATUS %x %x %x \n", > dstatus, bktr_status, bt848->risc_count ); */ > > run vic and mail back the last 200 hundred or so lines. > > Cheers, > Amancio > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:47:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from heathers.stdio.com (heathers.stdio.com [199.89.192.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE853157C9 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:47:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lile@stdio.com) Received: from heathers.stdio.com (lile@heathers.stdio.com [199.89.192.5]) by heathers.stdio.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21314; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:47:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lile@stdio.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:47:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Lile To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Greenman , Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Token-ring and 3.x-stable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Larry Lile wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > I don't mind waiting until after the freeze/release, I just wanted to > > > get feedback and get a place in the queue, if acceptable. > > > > I have absolutely zero objections to this coming into -stable after > > the 3.2-RELEASE date. It would make a fine 3.3 feature. :) > > Good, that will make my life much easier! Now I just have to talk > someone into making the commits for me (after the release). So now that 3.2-RELEASE has passed could we get the token-ring code committed to -stable? I have patches all ready to go. Maybe I could impose upon Julian to make the commits since I don't have priv's myself. Larry Lile lile@stdio.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:47:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5783415734 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28208; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Jane-Ellen Long: summarizers for FREENIX In-Reply-To: <11844.927690182@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG how about doug white :-) He mentionned being a bit short on cash to go to USEnix On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Anyone here going to USENIX who'd also like to trade a free > registration in exchange for playing "scribe" for the FREENIX track at > the USENIX technical conference this year? http://www.usenix.org for > details. > > - Jordan > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:09:53 -0800 > To: freenix-committee@usenix.ORG > From: Jane-Ellen Long > Subject: summarizers for FREENIX > > Help, please. Could you suggest people to summarize the Monterey FREENIX > sessions for ;login:? We can offer a complimentary registration to anyone > who's willing to summarize a significant number of sessions, i.e., at least > a full day's worth of sessions. We print the session summaries in ;login:, > of course, signed by the summarizer, and we also mount them on the Web both > as part of ;login: and as part of the Event pages for that conference. It's > good publicity for the summarizer and for the conference--everyone wins. > > Please send any possible prospects to me ASAP. Thanks! > > - -- > Jane-Ellen > Jane-Ellen Long, Publications Director, USENIX > 510 528 8649 | fax 510 548 5738 | jel@usenix.org > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:57:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from netcom12.netcom.com (netcom12.netcom.com [192.100.81.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E3A15407 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@netcom.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom12.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id KAA00296; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Jr Message-Id: <199905261757.KAA00296@netcom12.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: PCI Bus and bt848 driver... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I want to see if any PCI bus has a high PCI clock and the actual setting of the PCI clock for the bt848. The output of the debug printfs will give us a clue as to what is upsetting the bt848 also it is the way that I have managed to debug many of the problems with the folks over at the freebsd mailing list so this request is not new from me. Cheers, Amancio P.S.: the verbose boot message may help isolate the problem to a given hardware or PCI chipset ; additionally, please include whether you are using PAL or NTSC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 10:57:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DEB1562A for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA31532; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Larry Lile Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Greenman Subject: Re: Token-ring and 3.x-stable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you have a set of patches and files that can be applied to a 3.2++ tree cleanly, (and work), I can apply them for you. I can test the compile, but I'll need you to re CVSUP asap and test it. julian On Wed, 26 May 1999, Larry Lile wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Larry Lile wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > I don't mind waiting until after the freeze/release, I just wanted to > > > > get feedback and get a place in the queue, if acceptable. > > > > > > I have absolutely zero objections to this coming into -stable after > > > the 3.2-RELEASE date. It would make a fine 3.3 feature. :) > > > > Good, that will make my life much easier! Now I just have to talk > > someone into making the commits for me (after the release). > > So now that 3.2-RELEASE has passed could we get the token-ring code > committed to -stable? I have patches all ready to go. > > Maybe I could impose upon Julian to make the commits since I don't > have priv's myself. > > Larry Lile > lile@stdio.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 11:16:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C5514DF8 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA08162; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA20543; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:16:18 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA20932; Wed, 26 May 99 11:16:16 PDT Message-Id: <374C3A6F.963C24AC@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:16:15 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Anderson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: serial ports References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Keith Anderson wrote: > > Dear All > > Could someone point me in the correct direction for help with 'c' > > Some examples for opening a serial port for comms. > Opening tcp connections for use with mysql. > > I'm a programer from the 70's (DOS) and learning FBSD. Congratulations, and welcome to the real world. Here are a couple of books I can recommend heartily, both by W. Richard Stevens. The first is "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment", the second "UNIX Network Programming: Networking APIs: Sockets and XTI" volume 1. Mr. Stevens is a good writer and accomplished UNIX and TCP/IP researcher. Both of these books are highly recommended by just about everyone, they will make your transition to being a real UNIX programmer quite a bit easier. Both of these appear to be in print currently, so you should be able to find them (or order them) through any reputbale book shop. Does Australia have a good on-line bookstore yet? This might be a good opportunity for some FreeBSD hackers with ecommerce skills and a few million dollars to invest in stock, or someone who already owns a bookstore. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 11:21:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14DA156CC for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA02693 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 May 1999 04:21:27 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905261821.EAA02693@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: how to configure sound on laptop ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 04:21:27 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well, I've nutted out how rc.conf is meant to work and try to avoid freezing 3.1 by popping out the 3c589d at the wrong time but when it gets configured, the performance sucks (UTP so -link0, -link1). It feels like a misconfiguration as I can see packets coming out of it but none are being received. If I leave a ping running long enough, I might see some packets get returned, with a time of anywhere between 1 and 12 seconds. FWIW, it gets allocated IRQ9, but under Win98, it gets IRQ5... The next `problem' is that I lose an IRQ like this: PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows_ pcic: controller irq 5 Under Win98, the two CardBus controller chips each share IRQ 10 (they're described as Cirrus Logic PD6832's or pci1013,1110) and that chip doesn't get its own IRQ. And finally, I'm attempting to configure the sound chips. Win98 reports them as: OPL3-SAx WDM DMA 0,1 IRQ 11 IO 220-22f, 530-537, 388-38f, 310-31f, 370-371 Anyone want to have a stab at what the correct way to configure FreeBSD for that mess is ? :-) I currently have: controller snd0 device mss0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 11 drq 1 device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 device mpu0 at isa? port 0x310 irq 6 drq 0 However, upon booting, this gives the following: mss0 at 0x530 irq 11 drq 1 on isa [IRQ Conflit?]snd0: opl0 at 0x388 on isa snd0: mpu0 at 0x310 irq 6 drq 0 on isa mpu0 not attached due to irq conflict with fdc0 at 6 Where to from there ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 11:42:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB5D15748 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA02819 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 May 1999 04:42:40 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905261842.EAA02819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: more on the pcmcia saga. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 04:42:39 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It appears that having "pccardd" enabled in /etc/defaults/rc.conf causes it to be started very early with the end result of the "pcic controller" also allocating irq9 (in a separate pair of messages). i.e. this appears early on: PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 5 just before "Initializing PC-card drivers: fdc" - fdc ?! - and then later, whilst fsck'ing or whatever, I saw this: PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 9 What's going on here ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 12:12:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C991B15521 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:12:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA09516; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:45:04 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905261645.SAA09516@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: how to configure sound on laptop ? To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:45:04 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905261821.EAA02693@cheops.anu.edu.au> from "Darren Reed" at May 27, 99 04:21:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1118 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (they're described as Cirrus Logic PD6832's or pci1013,1110) and > that chip doesn't get its own IRQ. > > And finally, I'm attempting to configure the sound chips. > > Win98 reports them as: > OPL3-SAx WDM > DMA 0,1 > IRQ 11 > IO 220-22f, 530-537, 388-38f, 310-31f, 370-371 > > Anyone want to have a stab at what the correct way to configure > FreeBSD for that mess is ? :-) > > I currently have: > controller snd0 > device mss0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 11 drq 1 > device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 > device mpu0 at isa? port 0x310 irq 6 drq 0 try to remove that and use instead device pcm0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 11 drq 0 flags 0x11 cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 12:23:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B156C15711 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA09536; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:56:48 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905261656.SAA09536@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PCI Bus and bt848 driver... To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:56:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905261757.KAA00296@netcom12.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at May 26, 99 10:57:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1480 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I want to see if any PCI bus has a high PCI clock and the actual > setting of the PCI clock for the bt848. is it supposed to change with the OS release given the same hardware ? I have had this very same problem with a P5-90, PPro-200, Pentium2-300, in all cases switching back to 2.2.6 cured the problem. Roger was having the same exact problem on all of his machines i think. > The output of the debug printfs will give us a clue as > to what is upsetting the bt848 also it is the way that > I have managed to debug many of the problems with > the folks over at the freebsd mailing list so this > request is not new from me. right, but i always saw the request, and never (i think) saw a feedback so i was curious... > Cheers, > Amancio > P.S.: the verbose boot message may help isolate the problem > to a given hardware or PCI chipset ; additionally, please > include whether you are using PAL or NTSC. PAL. not sure that it makes a difference, anyways; vic uses a very low res (CIF). cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 12:41:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from netcom12.netcom.com (netcom12.netcom.com [192.100.81.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C53A15783 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:41:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@netcom.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom12.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id MAA13304 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:41:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Jr Message-Id: <199905261941.MAA13304@netcom12.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI Bus and bt848 driver... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When I get the information that I requested I will be more than happy to help. Right now I am very busy and the information that I requested is not hard to generate nor unreasonable. Take Care, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 14: 0:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8FE1578E for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:00:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA27039; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:59:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59456; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:34:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:34:42 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: "David G. Andersen" Cc: Andreas Klemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lpd woes ... missing feature that different printer share same spool Message-ID: <19990526223442.A57025@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990525220603.A5481@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <14156.10638.531747.843524@torrey.cs.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <14156.10638.531747.843524@torrey.cs.utah.edu>; from David G. Andersen on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 11:08:21AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi David ! Great, thanks for looking at it / for the patch. I'll put it into the apsfilter FAQ and the INSTALL file. Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 14: 0:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23451157F2 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.198.6]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3E77 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:00:23 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA67592 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:00:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:00:41 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: A question about errors. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am updating the description of intro(3) and have stumbled upon some challenges: #define EAUTH 80 /* Authentication error */ #define ENEEDAUTH 81 /* Need authenticator */ #define EOVERFLOW 84 /* Value too large to be stored in data type */ #define ECANCELED 85 /* Operation canceled */ I think I know what EOVERFLOW does, if one tries to put a certain number in an int declared variable which is greater than int can take it will generate an EOVERFLOW. Is EAUTH a basic uid<>password authentication failure, or is it broader or..? ECANCELED? Is this our basic CTRL-C? Thanks for any explanations on this part =) 'gards, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 14: 4:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A9D1578A for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09985 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199905262104.OAA09985@kithrup.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS problems in 2.x -- fixed in 3.x? Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While doing some development, I found out that read-only files are not treated as read-only on a 2.x NFS server. Nate did some poking around (he has a Solaris box he can use as a server, which makes a good control), and found: >Yes, I was able to reproduce it. > >Client - FreeBSD 2.2.8-stable (PII-300Mhz) > >Server1 - Solaris 2.6 (UltraSparc 2) >Server2 - FreeBSD 2.2.8 (P133 laptop) > >If I create a file on both servers as myself, size 0, mode 444, and >attempt to append to them, it fails with 'permission denied'. > >If I mount both directories on my client box and attempt the same >operation (using the same UID as on the servers), it fails on the >Solaris exported directory but succeeds on the FreeBSD exported >directory. > >It is extremley reproducible using 2.2.* stuff, but I don't have any 3.* >systems to try it on. I don't have any 3.x systems where I am right now, either. So... given all of the NFS changes that were done... was this one of the things that got fixed? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 15:19:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A666157DB for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip136.houston13.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.213.136]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2F2370A9; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07018; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:21:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:21:33 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: A question about errors. Message-ID: <19990526172133.G3991@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 11:00:41PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 26, 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Is EAUTH a basic uid<>password authentication failure, or is it broader > or..? EAUTH and ENEEDAUTH are NFS errors, as far as I know. > > ECANCELED? Is this our basic CTRL-C? ECANCELED is what aio_read() sets errno to when the call was cancelled via aio_cancel(). -- Chris Costello If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 15:42:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE6215873 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA56770; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:42:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:42:25 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: obrien@NUXI.com, hackers@freebsd.org, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* In-Reply-To: <199905261342.JAA28971@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 May 1999, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > It would be better to create src/gnu/lib/libgnugetopt/Makefile and point > > ".PATH:" to the newest src file we have in the tree. If some package > > gets updated and there is a newer GNUgetopt(), then we change the > > ".PATH:". JDP suggested this is a cleaner way than extracting part of a > > GNU package, and I have to agree with him. (I am considering something > > simular with libiberty and libbfd) > > Cygnus cautions against merging libiberty/libbfd from binutils with GDB. > > Never made sense to me tho... :-) I wish they would just split out the pieces and release them separately. For what its worth, we are doing exactly this (using bfd from binutils with gdb). It took some minor hacking to account for the fact the gdb expects to be using approximately bfd 2.9.2. I expect to remove them after I import binutils 2.9.2 which should happen not too long after its released, depending on workload. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 15:42:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC591589C for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA90609 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:41:44 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: MAXUSERS Message-ID: <19990526154144.A89261@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the maximum number that MAXUSERS can currently be set to, in the following environments: 3.2-STABLE 4.0-CURRENT Also, what is the limiting factor for this setting? MAXFILES? maxproc? Regards, Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Very funny, Scotty. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Now beam down my clothes." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 15:59:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hecate.webcom.com (hecate.webcom.com [209.1.28.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD08014DD3 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from graeme@echidna.com) Received: from kigal.webcom.com (kigal.webcom.com [209.1.28.57]) by hecate.webcom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA13700 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:59:47 -0700 Received: from [204.143.69.44] by inanna.webcom.com (WebCom SMTP 1.2.1) with SMTP id 34472183; Wed May 26 15:55 PDT 1999 Message-Id: <374CA707.6FB5@echidna.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:59:35 -0700 From: Graeme Tait Organization: Echidna X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: info@boatbooks.com Subject: File system gets too fragmented ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I previously posted to 'questions' about a filesystem that was reported full when df -ik showed plenty of space remaining, but got no useful answers, so I'm hoping this list can offer some assistance. [Please respond to me directly, as I'm not subscribed here.] The filesystem is built with 4096 byte blocks, 512 byte fragments, and 2048 bytes/inode, and is mounted 'async noatime'. It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar archive generated offline. In the course of updates, some files may grow or shrink by a fragment or so, and some new files are created, and periodically old files are deleted. Apparently over many months of this, the filesystem became badly fragmented. I'm guessing that when larger files are written, FreeBSD looks for intact blocks to use, but of the around 600MB df -ik reported as "Avail", only about 300MB were in a form it wanted to use for a large files. It was in creating large files that I found the problem with "missing" filespace. With the filesystem reported full, 'df -ik' showed Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused /dev/da1s1f 3563104 2941142 336913 90% 908255 733055 55% Presumably more space could have been utilized if small files were being written. I "cured" the problem by archiving, deleting and restoring first 10%, then another 10% of the small files. fsck -n now reports: 906229 files, 5827112 used, 1299096 free (366048 frags, 116631 blocks, 5.1% fragmentation) There were 441481 frags after the first 10% were deleted and restored; I didn't think to look at this data before the first delete. It's now possible to write large files that utilize all available space. However, I don't understand how the FFS works, so I'm just probing and guessing as to what's going on here. Could someone please shed a little light on this? Is FreeBSD not able to self-manage a filesystem operated in this way? Is there some way of preventing the problem, or of periodically cleaning things up (rebuilding the whole filesystem from backup means being down for over an hour on a 24x7 server)? The procedure of deleting and restoring a portion of the files was done as an emergency measure - I would prefer not to have to resort to that routinely. -- Graeme Tait - Echidna To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 17:16:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from well.apcs.com.au (well.apcs.com.au [203.41.122.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D41614E48 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@well.apcs.com.au) Received: (from keith@localhost) by well.apcs.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA69064; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:10:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <374C3A6F.963C24AC@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:10:23 +1000 (EST) From: Keith Anderson To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: serial ports Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Wes, Thanks for your help I was unable to find the book on-line in .au but my local Dymocks Books Store was able to order it 'on overnight delivery'. Keith Anderson On 26-May-99 Wes Peters wrote: > Keith Anderson wrote: > > Congratulations, and welcome to the real world. > > Here are a couple of books I can recommend heartily, both by W. Richard > Stevens. The first is "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment", > the second "UNIX Network Programming: Networking APIs: Sockets and XTI" > volume 1. > > Mr. Stevens is a good writer and accomplished UNIX and TCP/IP researcher. > Both of these books are highly recommended by just about everyone, they > will make your transition to being a real UNIX programmer quite a bit > easier. > > Both of these appear to be in print currently, so you should be able to > find them (or order them) through any reputbale book shop. Does > Australia have a good on-line bookstore yet? This might be a good > opportunity for some FreeBSD hackers with ecommerce skills and a few > million dollars to invest in stock, or someone who already owns a > bookstore. ;^) > > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD." ** The thing I like most about Windows 98 is... ** You can download FreeBSD with it! ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Keith Anderson Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. Date: 27-May-99 Time: 10:04:08 Satelite Service 64K to 2Meg This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- What's the similarity between an air conditioner and a computer? They both stop working when you open windows. ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 17:45:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9C915593 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13837; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Julian Elischer Cc: Larry Lile , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, David Greenman Subject: Re: Token-ring and 3.x-stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 10:57:40 PDT." Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <13833.927765982@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This sounds fine to me. We're between releases. :) > If you have a set of patches and files that can be applied to a 3.2++ > tree cleanly, (and work), I can apply them for you. > I can test the compile, but I'll need you to re CVSUP asap and test it. > > julian > > > On Wed, 26 May 1999, Larry Lile wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Larry Lile wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't mind waiting until after the freeze/release, I just wanted to > > > > > get feedback and get a place in the queue, if acceptable. > > > > > > > > I have absolutely zero objections to this coming into -stable after > > > > the 3.2-RELEASE date. It would make a fine 3.3 feature. :) > > > > > > Good, that will make my life much easier! Now I just have to talk > > > someone into making the commits for me (after the release). > > > > So now that 3.2-RELEASE has passed could we get the token-ring code > > committed to -stable? I have patches all ready to go. > > > > Maybe I could impose upon Julian to make the commits since I don't > > have priv's myself. > > > > Larry Lile > > lile@stdio.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 17:49:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B3C1512C for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07106; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:18:48 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905261614.SAA22845@father.ludd.luth.se> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:18:48 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Peter Brevik Subject: RE: RS232 status read ioctl (RI,DSR,CTS etc..) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-May-99 Peter Brevik wrote: > it seems the bits in the resulting code does not correspond to what actually > are physicaly on the rs232 connector anyway. > I would not like to use brute force, like inb()/outb() commands.. > Any suggestions on how to get TIOCMGET ioctl() to work as intended ..? Hmm.. I have a dumb serial UPS which works this way (ie it toggles various lines on the serial port for status) and it works fine. The ups code which I got (which is pretty ugly, but it does work! :) uses TIOCMGET ioctl, and it seems to sense power failures etc just fine. eg -- code snippet -- /* Lower All Modem Lines */ commlines = 0; ioctl(ups->SerialPortHandle,TIOCMSET,&commlines); D( printf("Clearing... commlines = %ld\n",commlines); ) -- end code -- --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 19:54:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C5814E3B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id TAA13476; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id TAA16259; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:54:16 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA17297; Wed, 26 May 99 19:54:13 PDT Message-Id: <374CB3D5.6F66ADC3@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:54:13 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Anderson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: serial ports References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Keith Anderson wrote: > > Dear Wes, > > Thanks for your help I was unable to find the book on-line in .au but my local > Dymocks Books Store was able to order it 'on overnight delivery'. > > Keith Anderson Both are very good books, and a good introduction to "the UNIX way." Best of luck. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 20:22:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cioe.com (ns1.cioe.com [204.120.165.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE3914D85; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@ns1.cioe.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by ns1.cioe.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) id WAA92247; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:18:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:18:48 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199905270318.WAA92247@ns1.cioe.com> To: ayan@kiwi.datasys.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, steve@cioe.com Subject: Re: UID Limits Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905261252.IAA10076@kiwi.datasys.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dunno. The IPC code uses ushrt as the type for uid... couldn't find anything else that does. Is this vestigial? I'm CC-ing this to 'freebsd-hackers' since I think we're outside the pervue of 'freebsd-isp' at this point... The question is "What is the maximum UID?". Its either a 2 or 4 byte unsigned integer. The filesystem seems to accept 4, pwd_mkdb complains about larger than 2 but lets you do it... -Steve > Yes, pwd_mkdb compares the UID with USHRT_MAX. I wonder if there > is a macro that defines the maximum GID and UID like: > > #define UID_MAX UINT_MAX; > #define GID_MAX UINT_MAX; > > I couldn't find it anywhere in the source but if there is one out > there, I imagine pwd_mkdb should use it. > > [ Quoted message from Steve Ames, recieved May 26, 5:56am.] > > > > > Yeah, I just didn't know. I fired up 'vipw' and just changed a UID > > to an arbitraily large number and vipw returned thustly: > > > > vipw: rebuilding the database... > > pwd_mkdb: 1011045 > max uid value (65535) > > > > However it took it. I can chown a file over and it appears to work > > correclty. I can then remove the user from the password database > > and look at the file on the system with 'ls': > > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 1011045 wheel 0 May 26 05:52 i > > > > So the filesystem is ok with it... so other than one warning > > message in 'pwd_mkdb' it seems to be that you can have more than > > 65535... > > > > Am I missing something dangerous here? > > > > -Steve > > > > [ End message from Steve Ames. ] > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 21: 2:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BAA1507B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40355>; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:46:05 +1000 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:01:48 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: getopt.c in gnu/*/* To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: obrien@NUXI.com Message-Id: <99May27.134605est.40355@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "David O'Brien" wrote: >It would be better to create src/gnu/lib/libgnugetopt/Makefile and point >".PATH:" to the newest src file we have in the tree. ... >(I am considering something simular with libiberty and libbfd) This approach sounds nice, but there may be some gotchas: I have previously tried to share a common libbfd between gdb and binutils via a collection of directory symlinks and spent several days trying to work out why the resulting gdb. I eventually found that libbfd and gdb had included different versions of the same include file - and therefore defined the same structure differently (courtesy of some relative include paths). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 21: 6:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from caffeine.internal.enteract.com (caffeine.internal.enteract.com [207.229.129.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E09F61507B for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 4864 invoked from network); 27 May 1999 04:06:49 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by caffeine.internal.enteract.com with SMTP; 27 May 1999 04:06:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-2.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA15670; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:06:47 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-2.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:06:46 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Graeme Tait Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? In-Reply-To: <374CA707.6FB5@echidna.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 May 1999, Graeme Tait wrote: > It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying > around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar > > However, I don't understand how the FFS works, so I'm just probing and > guessing as to what's going on here. > > Could someone please shed a little light on this? Is FreeBSD not able to > self-manage a filesystem operated in this way? Is there some way of > preventing the problem, or of periodically cleaning things up (rebuilding > the whole filesystem from backup means being down for over an hour on a > 24x7 server)? The problem you have is that a file on FFS file system can have at most one fragmented block. With the number of small files that you have, it isn't terribly suprising that you are running out of full blocks when there is still space free on the disk. I don't think there is a whole lot you can do about the problem. A 1024B frag size might mask the problem of having space free, but with no aligned blocks, not allocatable. You should also think hard about why you need a million 1536 byte files on the same filesystem. I don't know what you are doing, but you might consider a real database. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 21:23:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A7014E17 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA68670; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374CC8BB.2F1CF0FB@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:23:23 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I missed the original post, so may be mislead.... (The extract below doesn't give all the symptoms) David Scheidt wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999, Graeme Tait wrote: > > > It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying > > around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar > > > > > However, I don't understand how the FFS works, so I'm just probing and > > guessing as to what's going on here. > > > > Could someone please shed a little light on this? Is FreeBSD not able to > > self-manage a filesystem operated in this way? Is there some way of > > preventing the problem, or of periodically cleaning things up (rebuilding > > the whole filesystem from backup means being down for over an hour on a > > 24x7 server)? > > The problem you have is that a file on FFS file system can have at most one > fragmented block. With the number of small files that you have, it isn't > terribly suprising that you are running out of full blocks when there is > still space free on the disk. I don't think there is a whole lot you can do > about the problem. A 1024B frag size might mask the problem of having space > free, but with no aligned blocks, not allocatable. You should also think > hard about why you need a million 1536 byte files on the same filesystem. I > don't know what you are doing, but you might consider a real database. > > David Scheidt > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message if each file uses 5 frags and there are 8 frags to a block then there will be only 3-frag long freespace clusters. thus each file will essentially use 8 frags because the other 3 will not be usable by any files you have. I don't see if you have a 4K or 8K blocksize and what your fragsize is. let me see.. if you are talking about 512 byte frags, and 4k blocks, with average files taking 2.5K, then you might consider a 8K blocksize, as you would on average get 2 files per block, each of 3 frags (and an ocasional one taking the last 2K) you might also experiment with 16K/2K Counter intuitive I know.... As David said.. if we knew more about what you are doing...... Oh yeah... 1 million 3KB files is only 3GB.... an 18GB disk would also solve your problem :-) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 21:37:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD561525C for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA13802; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id GAA06126; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:37:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 06:37:17 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Darren Reed Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Darren Reed memorial ? Message-ID: <19990527063717.P1444@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199905251616.JAA03587@dingo.cdrom.com> <199905251713.DAA19888@cheops.anu.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905251713.DAA19888@cheops.anu.edu.au>; from Darren Reed on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 03:13:28AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 03:13:28AM +1000, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Mike Smith, sie said: > > > > > I tried to build a kernel with it in, although I don't know if I got > > > the config correct, but I got a panic when it booted, toward the end > > > of the configuration process: > > > > > > panic: biodone: zero vnode ref count > > > > Darren, I don't know what you've done to your machine, but you get the > > weirdest and most unhappy-sounding problems I've ever seen. I think we > > need a "Darren Reed memorial " to commemorate this, as well > > as your perseverence for not simply giving up and going home. > > Put this one down to changing a config file and "make depend" not > being as complete as "rm -rf". Ouch. Any chance of tracking down where the error comes from? They are supposed to be equal. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 21:48: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A28F15167; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:48:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04184; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:47:41 +1000 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:47:41 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199905270447.OAA04184@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bob@anet.donetsk.ua, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I have multiprocessor machine: > >matherboard SOYO 5TX2/X5 with 2 intel 166 proceccors >multiport card Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep > >Kernel config: > >options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel >options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O >options NCPU=2 # number of CPUs >options NBUS=2 # number of busses > >All good work until somthing do start to send to /dev/cXX >Then kernel panic and reboot !!! > >All good working under single processor kernel ... no problem There seems to be a problem with nested locks. What was the panic message? Try deleting the code in the SMP ifdefs in cy.c, and don't use fast interrupts with SMP: (a) for the pci version, don't use option CY_PCI_FASTINTR. (b) for the isa version, delete the line with RI_FAST in it in cy.c. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 22:24:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE33614D39 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id WAA13961; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA18219; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:24:21 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA23734; Wed, 26 May 99 22:24:18 PDT Message-Id: <374CD701.56711641@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:24:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. References: <199905261842.EAA02819@cheops.anu.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Reed wrote: > > It appears that having "pccardd" enabled in /etc/defaults/rc.conf > causes it to be started very early with the end result of the > "pcic controller" also allocating irq9 (in a separate pair of > messages). i.e. this appears early on: > > PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 5 > > just before "Initializing PC-card drivers: fdc" - fdc ?! - and then > later, whilst fsck'ing or whatever, I saw this: > > PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 9 > > What's going on here ? Here's mine, just in case it's of any help: Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #6: Fri May 21 01:09:29 MDT 1999 rootb@homer:/usr/src/sys/compile/HOMER Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Celeron (298.42-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x66a Stepping=10 Features=0x183f9ff> real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 62701568 (61232K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf0273000. Preloaded splash_image_data "/boot/saturn1.bmp" at 0xf027309c. Preloaded elf module "splash_bmp.ko" at 0xf02730ec. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.1 chip2: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.3 vga0: rev 0x20 int a irq 9 on pci0.8.0 chip3: rev 0x80 int a irq 255 on pci0.10.0 chip4: rev 0x80 int b irq 255 on pci0.10.1 Probing for PnP devices: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 irq 12 on isa psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1 not found at 0x2f8 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 4126MB (8452080 sectors), 8944 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, accel, ovlap, dma, iordis acd0: drive speed 4134KB/sec, 128KB cache acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-DA acd0: Audio: play, 256 volume levels acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/8 bytes threshold nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface apm0 flags 0x31 on isa apm: found APM BIOS version 1.2 PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 3 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Initializing PC-card drivers: sio changing root device to wd0s2a Card inserted, slot 1 PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) pcic: controller irq 5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Card inserted, slot 3 ed0: address 00:80:c8:8c:01:58, type NE2000 (16 bit) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 22:26:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08EFC15614 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA34148 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 01:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:26:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: K6-2 MTRR support testing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I suppose that this is nearly done. It works, it seems, but I have no idea what I can do to truly test it. I need to implement probing/matching so that it only works on the CPUs that support it, I suppose. I'd like people to check it out for now. I make no guarantees, but it seems to work here. Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ /*- * Copyright (c) 1999 Brian Fundakowski Feldman * All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * $Id$ * */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include /* * A K6 MTRR is defined as the highest 15 bits having the address, the next * 15 having the mask, the 1st bit being "write-combining" and the 0th bit * being "uncacheable". * * Address Mask WC UC * | XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX | X | X | * * There are two of these in the 64-bit UWCCR. */ #define UWCCR 0xc0000085 #define k6_reg_get(reg, addr, mask, wc, uc) \ addr = ((reg) & 0xfffe0000) >> 17; \ mask = ((reg) & 0x1fffc) >> 2; \ wc = ((reg) & 0x2) >> 1; \ uc = (reg) & 0x1; #define k6_reg_make(addr, mask, wc, uc) \ (((addr) << 17) | ((mask) << 2) | ((wc) << 1) | uc) static void k6_mrinit(struct mem_range_softc *sc); static int k6_mrset(struct mem_range_softc *, struct mem_range_desc *, int *); static __inline int k6_mrmake(struct mem_range_desc *, u_int32_t *); static void k6_mem_drvinit(void *); static struct mem_range_ops k6_mrops = { k6_mrinit, k6_mrset, NULL }; static __inline int k6_mrmake(struct mem_range_desc *desc, u_int32_t *mtrr) { u_int base, len = 0, wc, uc; register int bit; if (desc->mr_base &~ 0xfffe0000) return EINVAL; if (desc->mr_len < 131072 || !powerof2(desc->mr_len)) return EINVAL; if (desc->mr_flags &~ 0x3) return EOPNOTSUPP; base = desc->mr_base & 0xfffe0000; for (bit = ffs(desc->mr_len >> 17) - 1; bit < 15; bit++) len |= 1 << (14 - bit); wc = (desc->mr_flags & MDF_WRITECOMBINE) ? 1 : 0; uc = (desc->mr_flags & MDF_UNCACHEABLE) ? 1 : 0; *mtrr = k6_reg_make(base, len, wc, uc); return 0; } static void k6_mrinit(struct mem_range_softc *sc) { u_int64_t reg; u_int32_t addr, mask, wc, uc; int d; sc->mr_cap = 0; bzero(sc->mr_desc = malloc((sc->mr_ndesc = 2) * sizeof(struct mem_range_desc), M_MEMDESC, M_WAITOK), 2 * sizeof(struct mem_range_desc)); reg = rdmsr(UWCCR); for (d = 0; d < sc->mr_ndesc; d++) { u_int32_t one = (reg & (0xffffffff << (32 * d))) >> (32 * d); k6_reg_get(one, addr, mask, wc, uc); sc->mr_desc[d].mr_base = addr << 17; sc->mr_desc[d].mr_len = ffs(mask) << 17; if (wc) sc->mr_desc[d].mr_flags |= MDF_WRITECOMBINE; if (uc) sc->mr_desc[d].mr_flags |= MDF_UNCACHEABLE; } printf("K6 MTRR support enabled\n"); } static int k6_mrset(struct mem_range_softc *sc, struct mem_range_desc *desc, int *arg) { u_int64_t reg; u_int32_t mtrr; int error, d; switch (*arg) { case MEMRANGE_SET_UPDATE: error = k6_mrmake(desc, &mtrr); if (error) return error; for (d = 0; d < sc->mr_ndesc; d++) { if (!sc->mr_desc[d].mr_base) { sc->mr_desc[d] = *desc; goto out; } if (sc->mr_desc[d].mr_base == desc->mr_base && sc->mr_desc[d].mr_len == desc->mr_len) return EEXIST; } return ENOSPC; case MEMRANGE_SET_REMOVE: mtrr = 0; for (d = 0; d < sc->mr_ndesc; d++) if (sc->mr_desc[d].mr_base == desc->mr_base && sc->mr_desc[d].mr_len == desc->mr_len) { bzero(&sc->mr_desc[d], sizeof(sc->mr_desc[d])); goto out; } return ENOENT; default: return EOPNOTSUPP; } out: disable_intr(); wbinvd(); invltlb(); reg = rdmsr(UWCCR); reg &= 0xffffffff << (32 * d); reg |= mtrr << (32 * d); wrmsr(UWCCR, reg); wbinvd(); invltlb(); enable_intr(); return 0; } static void k6_mem_drvinit(void *unused) { mem_range_softc.mr_op = &k6_mrops; } SYSINIT(k6memdev, SI_SUB_DRIVERS, SI_ORDER_FIRST, k6_mem_drvinit, NULL) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 23:20: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FAF14F2C for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09645; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:19:47 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905270619.QAA09645@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:19:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374CD701.56711641@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at May 26, 99 11:24:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Wes Peters, sie said: [...] > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 3 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Initializing PC-card drivers: sio Why does it list "sio" here ? I don't see where sio is actually used with PCMCIA here...why doesn't it list ed0 too ? (Is this a bug ?) > changing root device to wd0s2a > Card inserted, slot 1 > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Card inserted, slot 3 > ed0: address 00:80:c8:8c:01:58, type NE2000 (16 bit) Does this imply that IRQ's 3 & 5 are for use by the respective slots ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 23:36:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDEC155C6 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09848; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:36:20 +1000 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199905270636.QAA09848@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:36:19 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <374CD701.56711641@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at May 26, 99 11:24:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [...] > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 3 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Initializing PC-card drivers: sio > changing root device to wd0s2a > Card inserted, slot 1 > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > pcic: controller irq 5 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Card inserted, slot 3 > ed0: address 00:80:c8:8c:01:58, type NE2000 (16 bit) Well, when I see two "pcic: .. irq X" lines, pccardd comes back with this error: pccard[]: driver allocation failed for 3Com Corporation I also (now) get: PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (...) pcic: controller irq 5 Initializing PC-card drivers: ep DEVFS: ready to run Card inserted, slot 3 (is this good or bad ?). I have a sio and ep lines "empty" in the kernel config: device sio2 device ep0 This time, however, I got: PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (...) pcic: controller irq 9 Card inserted, slot 3 now where it got "slot 3" from, I have no fucking idea. What's more, there is only *1* card inserted! Does _anyone_ know how to make this PCMCIA crap work or is it just like the lottery ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 26 23:55:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from linux.cca.usart.ru (linux.cca.usart.ru [194.226.230.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796B5151C6 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:53:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@cca.usart.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost) by linux.cca.usart.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA31526 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:57:44 +0600 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:57:41 +0600 (ESD) From: Max Gotlib To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Serial ports programming In-Reply-To: <374CB3D5.6F66ADC3@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: I need some kind of action (while coding user space program actively handling the serial port) to get sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. I know about "ioctl(fd, TIOCDRAIN)", but this ioctl is accomplished with tty buffers draining to (probably) FIFO buffer of the serial port. Is there any (portable preferably) way to get an acknolege or to block until FIFO buffer is cleared? The situation is that I can't simply write additional 64 bytes (I did not see any serial ports with FIFO larger than 64 bytes) and drain the tty buffers - I have to catch the exact moment ... Thanks in advance, Max. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 0: 8: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC55C151C6 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 00:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29394 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 00:08:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:08:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: USENIX scribe bit Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian mumbled something about: > how about doug white :-) > He mentionned being a bit short on cash to go to USEnix I need the plane ticket & hotel ... I have the student membership so the actual show is like $100. The plane and hotel could break my measly credit cards, not to mention my soon-to-be-between-jobs budget. :( If anyone had a DV (FireWire) camera they could make available, I could ship my mac G3/350 down and edit the data it into video clips, then serve it with QuickTime Streaming. Put together a decent webpage for it all ... burn it to CD... whee ... :) On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Anyone here going to USENIX who'd also like to trade a free > registration in exchange for playing "scribe" for the FREENIX track at > the USENIX technical conference this year? http://www.usenix.org for > details. > > - Jordan > Doug White Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 0:45: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (dsl-206.169.4.82.wenet.com [206.169.4.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EEA81533E for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 00:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.9.1a/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA06932; Thu, 27 May 1999 00:44:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Doug White Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX scribe bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Doug White wrote: > If anyone had a DV (FireWire) camera they could make available, I could > ship my mac G3/350 down and edit the data it into video clips, then serve > it with QuickTime Streaming. Put together a decent webpage for it all ... > burn it to CD... whee ... :) Won't it be umm... ironic considering that new Quicktime doesn't and won't work on anything that even remotely resembles Unix? -- Alex ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent.. now give users the option to cut your hair you hippie! -- Anonymous Coward To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 0:54: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BD615869 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 00:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pb@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07035 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:53:58 +0200 From: Peter Brevik Received: (pb@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA00777 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:53:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199905270753.JAA00777@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: RS232 status lines, read with TIOCMGET.. [solved] :) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:53:56 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some of you maybe saw my letter about the (4)tty ioctl "TIOCMGET int *state". The issue has been solved and the answer is that indeed the sio.c driver only reads the status line at opening. However a status line change will trigger a interrupt, and cause the driver to read status lines once more. Thus functionality achived with minimum cpu load. Seems the status lines are not sensitive for ground connection. Ie it will not change bit value between gnd connection and no connection. I guess that was a bad TTL habit :-) Maybe this could be used in freebsd handbook or other documentation.. ? (to help others) /Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 1:13:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from 990.net (unknown [202.102.13.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F14014E9D for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 01:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thinkton@990.net) Received: (fmail 13638 invoked by uid 1001); 27 May 1999 08:14:55 -0000 Date: 27 May 1999 08:14:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19990527081455.13637.fmail@990.net> Reply-To: thinkton@990.net From: thinkton@990.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: locating the initialized data fjile Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG my questions are at /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot v 3.0 1. during boot stage, the initialized data is loaded after kernel text, but, where is the file that the initialized data is defined in? 2. what is raw boot? thank you end __________________________________________________ »¶Ó­Ê¹ÓýðÁêÈÈÏßÃâ·Ñµç×ÓÓʼþϵͳhttp://www.990.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 2: 8:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hera.webcom.com (hera.webcom.com [209.1.28.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBC21525C for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:08:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from graeme@echidna.com) Received: from eresh.webcom.com (eresh.webcom.com [209.1.28.49]) by hera.webcom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA03449; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:07:37 -0700 Received: from [204.143.69.53] by inanna.webcom.com (WebCom SMTP 1.2.1) with SMTP id 28202863; Thu May 27 02:03 PDT 1999 Message-Id: <374D356F.80E@echidna.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:07:11 -0700 From: Graeme Tait Organization: Echidna X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999, Graeme Tait wrote: > > > It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying > > around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar > > > > > However, I don't understand how the FFS works, so I'm just probing and > > guessing as to what's going on here. > > > > Could someone please shed a little light on this? Is FreeBSD not able to > > self-manage a filesystem operated in this way? Is there some way of > > preventing the problem, or of periodically cleaning things up (rebuilding > > the whole filesystem from backup means being down for over an hour on a > > 24x7 server)? > > The problem you have is that a file on FFS file system can have at most one > fragmented block. With the number of small files that you have, it isn't > terribly suprising that you are running out of full blocks when there is > still space free on the disk. I don't think there is a whole lot you can do > about the problem. A 1024B frag size might mask the problem of having space > free, but with no aligned blocks, not allocatable. You should also think > hard about why you need a million 1536 byte files on the same filesystem. I > don't know what you are doing, but you might consider a real database. I've received several answers along this direction, but I want to emphasize one point that I think is being overlooked. When the filesystem is fresh and a new archive is expanded to create ~900,000 small files each of 2-5 512 byte frags in size, the filesystem appears quite well-behaved, and space seems to be efficiently utilized. The problem seems to be that with successive updates that slightly change the size of files, or add or delete files, that a large number of unallocated fragments are created. I don't understand how the FFS stores files of sub-block size. Do the fragments used need to be contiguous, or entirely within a single block? The choice of 512 byte frags is based on average wastage per file of half a frag, or about 230MB with 900,000 files. It's quite possible that a 2k frag/16k blocksize would improve utilization of fragments, as the vast majority of files would then fit in a single fragment, but in this case there would be of order 800MB wastage, and the files would not fit the existing disk. BTW, I realize there is probably a better way to do this (database, etc.), and we are thinking in that direction, but for the moment we have a legacy setup and not much time to rework it. Also, I would have thought that having many tiny files was not that unusual (e.g., a news spool). -- Graeme Tait - Echidna To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 2:16:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42D31525C for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:16:21 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id L4VBJ2JG; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:08:34 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10mwKb-0007Jl-00; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:20:05 +0100 To: Graeme Tait Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? X-Mailer: nmh-1.0 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: Graeme Tait's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 05:07:11 PDT" <374D356F.80E@echidna.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:20:05 +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27 May 1999, Graeme Tait proclaimed: > BTW, I realize there is probably a better way to do this (database, > etc.), and we are thinking in that direction, but for the moment we > have a legacy setup and not much time to rework it. Also, I would have > thought that having many tiny files was not that unusual (e.g., a news > spool). Although a new spool does have a large number of small files (used to; most sane people now use cyclical files for their news instead), the size of those files is constant. They are created, then deleted, there is no update in the middle. It sounds like you've come up with something even worse for a filesystem than usenet - congratulations! -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Value of 2 may go down as well as up" -- FORTRAN programmers manual -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 2:32:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E731507B for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:35:31 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179623@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Dom Mitchell' , Graeme Tait Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, info@boatbooks.com Subject: RE: File system gets too fragmented ??? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:27 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Dom Mitchell [SMTP:Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:20 AM > To: Graeme Tait > Cc: David Scheidt; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; info@boatbooks.com > Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? > > It sounds like you've come up with something even worse for a > filesystem > than usenet - congratulations! > [ML] yes, this sounds like MAESTROII "database". A few files pro directory, many levels deep, a million of them all together. It wreaks havoc in NAMI cache. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 3:41:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7808314C0B for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 03:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id DAA75646; Thu, 27 May 1999 03:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 03:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Graeme Tait Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? In-Reply-To: <374D356F.80E@echidna.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Graeme Tait wrote: > > I've received several answers along this direction, but I want to emphasize one > point that I think is being overlooked. When the filesystem is fresh and a new > archive is expanded to create ~900,000 small files each of 2-5 512 byte frags > in size, the filesystem appears quite well-behaved, and space seems to be > efficiently utilized. > > The problem seems to be that with successive updates that slightly change the > size of files, or add or delete files, that a large number of unallocated > fragments are created. imagine: [A][A][B][B][B][C][C][C] <-- 8 frags in 3 files delete a bunch of small files.. (position A or B) Get a bunch of fractionally larger files They aint going to fit.. need a new block... of course it Is posible that where could be a bug where we don't reallocate frags that are early in a block, but I find it a bit hard to believe.. julian > > I don't understand how the FFS stores files of sub-block size. Do the > fragments used need to be contiguous, or entirely within a single block? The excess over an integral number of blocks (at the tail of the file) is sized, and a single block with that number of contiguous frag blocks free is sought and allocated. up to 8 files may use frags in the same block, but each can only have 1 contiguous range of frags at it's end. julian > > > The choice of 512 byte frags is based on average wastage per file of > half a frag, or about 230MB with 900,000 files. It's quite possible that > a 2k frag/16k blocksize would improve utilization of fragments, as the > vast majority of files would then fit in a single fragment, but in this > case there would be of order 800MB wastage, and the files would not fit > the existing disk. sounds a fair tradeoff to me.. a 4GB disk is what? $200? > > > BTW, I realize there is probably a better way to do this (database, > etc.), and we are thinking in that direction, but for the moment we have > a legacy setup and not much time to rework it. Also, I would have > thought that having many tiny files was not that unusual (e.g., a news > spool). > > > -- > Graeme Tait - Echidna > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 5: 1: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from francine.edoropolis.org (catv6055.extern.kun.nl [131.174.116.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8E51555A for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 05:00:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bugtraq@edoropolis.org) Received: from francine.edoropolis.org (francine.edoropolis.org [131.174.116.55]) by francine.edoropolis.org (8.9.2/8.9.2); ESMTP id NAA03705 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:05:17 GMT (Abuse complaints to: abuse@edoropolis.org; mail from bugtraq@edoropolis.org-s) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:05:17 +0000 (GMT) From: "@cm3_1aM3r" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: arp & bpf..? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've been experimenting around a bit with the bpf interface, but I seem to do something completely wrong. I tried to recreate an ARP request, but it doesn't seem to work. Can anyone find the problem in the source included..? I've tried just about any combination of host-to-network- and network-to-host byte order.. Thanks, -- Khamba Staring Ps: I'm not subscribed to this mailing list, so if you're replying, could you please be so kind to cc me..? --------- begin source ----------- #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #define ETHER_ARPPROTO 0x806 #define ETHERLEN 6 #define IPLEN 4 #define ARP_REQUEST 1 #define ARP_REPLY 2 struct dlinkproto { u_char dest[ETHERLEN]; /* u_char source[ETHERLEN]; source addy is already added in header */ u_short type; }; struct arpproto { u_short hardware; u_short protocol; u_char hlen; u_char plen; u_short opcode; u_char h_sender[ETHERLEN]; u_char p_sender[IPLEN]; u_char h_recv[ETHERLEN]; u_char p_recv[IPLEN]; }; int main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { char bpf_dev[10], *packet; struct ifreq ifr; struct dlinkproto *dlink; struct arpproto *arp; int n = 0, fd, len; len = sizeof(struct dlinkproto) + sizeof(struct arpproto); if(!(packet = malloc(len + 50))) { perror("malloc"); exit(-1); } bzero(packet, sizeof(packet)); dlink = (struct dlinkproto *)packet; arp = (struct arpproto *)packet + sizeof(struct dlinkproto); fd = open("/dev/bpf3", O_RDWR); if(fd < 0) { perror("open"); exit(-1); } len = 0; if(ioctl(fd, BIOCGBLEN, &len) < 0) { perror("ioctl(BIOCGBLEN)"); exit(-1); } bzero(&ifr, sizeof(struct ifreq)); strcpy(ifr.ifr_name, "ed1"); if(ioctl(fd, BIOCSETIF, &ifr) < 0) { perror("ioctl(BIOCSETIF)"); exit(-1); } n = 1; if(ioctl(fd, BIOCIMMEDIATE, &n) < 0) { perror("ioctl(BIOCIMMEDIATE)"); exit(-1); } /* ** destination mac address. */ dlink->dest[0] = 0xf9; dlink->dest[1] = 0xf8; dlink->dest[2] = 0xf7; dlink->dest[3] = 0xf6; dlink->dest[4] = 0xf5; dlink->dest[5] = 0xf4; dlink->type = htons(ETHER_ARPPROTO); arp->hardware = 1; arp->protocol = htons(ETHER_ARPPROTO); arp->hlen = ETHERLEN; arp->plen = IPLEN; arp->opcode = ARP_REQUEST; arp->h_sender[0] = 0x2a; arp->h_sender[1] = 0x2b; arp->h_sender[2] = 0x2c; arp->h_sender[3] = 0x2d; arp->h_sender[4] = 0x2e; arp->h_sender[5] = 0x2f; write(fd, packet, sizeof(struct dlinkproto) + sizeof(arp)); close(fd); free(packet); return 0; } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 6: 7:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 04144150BA for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 4558 invoked by uid 1001); 27 May 1999 13:07:17 -0000 To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A bug in namei cache? References: From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 27 May 1999 16:05:18 +0300 In-Reply-To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu's message of "25 May 1999 19:46:20 +0300" Message-ID: <867lpufysx.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) writes: > Suppose you want to mv a directory file (with subdirectories) to another > name (it is like grafting a subtree to another point), the namecache > associated with the source directory file will be purged by calling > cache_purge() (done in ufs_rename()?). However, the routine cache_purge() > does not purge cache entries recursively down the subtree. Will this > result in a lot of stale entries in the namecache? FreeBSD 3.1 no longer The name cache only caches component names, not paths, so the entries are still valid. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 7:16: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A3615152 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11981; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28379; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10721; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:15:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:15:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: Graeme Tait "Re: File system gets too fragmented ???" (May 27, 5:07am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Graeme Tait Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 27, 5:07am, Graeme Tait wrote: } Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? } I've received several answers along this direction, but I want to emphasize one } point that I think is being overlooked. When the filesystem is fresh and a new } archive is expanded to create ~900,000 small files each of 2-5 512 byte frags } in size, the filesystem appears quite well-behaved, and space seems to be } efficiently utilized. } } The problem seems to be that with successive updates that slightly change the } size of files, or add or delete files, that a large number of unallocated } fragments are created. } } I don't understand how the FFS stores files of sub-block size. Do the fragments } used need to be contiguous, or entirely within a single block? Yes and yes. } The choice of 512 byte frags is based on average wastage per file of half a } frag, or about 230MB with 900,000 files. It's quite possible that a 2k frag/16k } blocksize would improve utilization of fragments, as the vast majority of files } would then fit in a single fragment, but in this case there would be of order } 800MB wastage, and the files would not fit the existing disk. You might try unmounting the filesystem and doing tunefs -o space /dev/rawdevice (which can also be done at newfs time). You may find that the performance, especially write performance, isn't too good. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 7:32: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956E9150AD for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21944; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905271432.KAA21944@cs.rpi.edu> To: Dmitrij Tejblum Cc: "David E. Cross" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: kernel debugging assistance In-Reply-To: Message from Dmitrij Tejblum of "Wed, 26 May 1999 18:39:05 +0400." <199905261439.SAA12649@arc.hq.cti.ru> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:32:00 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think that this dump is useful for debugging this problem. Perhaps, if > you compile the kernel with DEBUG_LOCKS, you will get more useful info. > > Dima I checked through the source for DEBUG_LOCKS, it doesn't appear to do anything other than to printout information.... information that I already have access to by way of this dump file. I will turn it on regardless swo it makes my life a bit more simple. In looking through this, and at the program that used to cause this problem reliably (it no longer does, even though nothing changed on the client or workstation; I am guessing that it is a race condition that happens 5% of the time and I filled my quota for the next 20 years ;) I have a theory what is going on... NFS service is entirely in the kernel for FreeBSD, excepting the NFSDs which mostly sit arround to give the kernel contexts to pass requests into. NFS uses its own namei mechanism which requests a lock on what it is looking up. What if it gets 2 requests at about the same time for the same file. That would certainly seem a likely cause for this problem. I note that all the files that are causing this crash are files that would be accessed in the aforementioned behaviour; netscape cache files, .Xauthority-c, and the data file for the test prgram which is accessed rapidly and repeatedly. Does this seem like a reasonable theory to anyone? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 7:32:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B21150DE for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12118; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28455; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10749; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199905271432.HAA10749@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:32:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: Graeme Tait "File system gets too fragmented ???" (May 26, 6:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? Cc: info@boatbooks.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 26, 6:59pm, Graeme Tait wrote: } Subject: File system gets too fragmented ??? } The filesystem is built with 4096 byte blocks, 512 byte fragments, and } 2048 bytes/inode, and is mounted 'async noatime'. } } It contains about 900,000 files, most of which are small, occupying } around 2-5 fragments. The small files are updated monthly from a tar } archive generated offline. In the course of updates, some files may grow } or shrink by a fragment or so, and some new files are created, and } periodically old files are deleted. If a file shrinks by one fragment, it'll most likely leave a one fragment gap in the block that can't be reused by another (new) file, since the the minimum file size is two fragments. You could easily get a 12.5% wasteage just from that. It might help somewhat if a file that grows by a fragment can allocate the free fragment immediately preceeding it instead of being relocated to a fresh block. I don't know if FFS does this or not. Forcing space optimization full time might help, but this is a pretty nasty allocation pattern ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 7:48:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from manor.msen.com (manor.msen.com [148.59.4.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887DF158C9 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wayne@staff.msen.com) Received: (from wayne@localhost) by manor.msen.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15767 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:48:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wayne) Message-ID: <19990527104808.C15567@msen.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:48:08 -0400 From: "Michael R. Wayne" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com>; from Don Lewis on Thu, May 27, 1999 at 07:15:56AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 27, 1999 at 07:15:56AM -0700, Don Lewis wrote: > } > } The problem seems to be that with successive updates that slightly change the > } size of files, or add or delete files, that a large number of unallocated > } fragments are created. Long ago, back when disks were small, slow and expensive, someone wrote a program that properly defragged a Unix filesystem. It was slow and clunky (run time was measured in days) but it DID work. I don't appear to have it handy anymore but you might try checking ancient comp.sources archives. Sorry, it's been too long to remember the program name. Back in another lifetime, I actually used the above mentioned program to maintain an active filesystem with a similar fragmentation problem. Eventually, we determined that it was much faster to run a script that locked a directory, rewrote the entire directory with tar, then removed the old files and directory. If you have periods where pieces of your filesystem is quiescent and script carefully (we actually compared checksums of every file), this should let you limp along until you come up with a better solution. /\/\ \/\/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 7:55:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5DC151C1 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12342; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28546; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10808; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:55:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199905271455.HAA10808@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:55:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David E. Cross" "Re: kernel debugging assistance" (May 27, 10:32am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "David E. Cross" , Dmitrij Tejblum Subject: Re: kernel debugging assistance Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 27, 10:32am, "David E. Cross" wrote: } Subject: Re: kernel debugging assistance } > I don't think that this dump is useful for debugging this problem. Perhaps, if } > you compile the kernel with DEBUG_LOCKS, you will get more useful info. } > } > Dima } } I checked through the source for DEBUG_LOCKS, it doesn't appear to do anything } other than to printout information.... information that I already have access } to by way of this dump file. I will turn it on regardless swo it makes my } life a bit more simple. In some cases it sure would be nice if DEBUG_LOCKS preserved more of the stack context. Knowing that the current holder of the lock also called vop_stdlock() isn't all that useful. I'd rather know where vget() was called. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8: 2: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DAB8414F82 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:01:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05263; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:49:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:49:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Don Lewis Cc: Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? In-Reply-To: <199905271432.HAA10749@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It might help somewhat if a file that grows by a fragment can allocate > the free fragment immediately preceeding it instead of being relocated > to a fresh block. I don't know if FFS does this or not. > Really? FFS allocates free fragments with bitmap, so it should be able to find free fragments anywhere. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8:17: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maildns.FSBDial.co.uk (maildns.fsbdial.co.uk [195.89.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E569158A1; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Received: from [212.1.149.86] by maildns.freenet.co.uk (NTMail 4.30.0008/NT0619.00.8ceac940) with ESMTP id vkgkgaaa for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:55:17 +0100 Message-ID: <374D5E48.15A2D82B@excite.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:01:28 +0100 From: Dean Lombardo Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: a two-level port system? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I apologise if this has been discussed before. The ports collection seems to be growing at alarming rates. On one hand, this is very good; on the other, it has the unfortunate downside of having to store ten billion little files on one's hard drive. The current size of the ports collection is 300+Mb (the output of du -ks /usr/ports); the actual size could be greater, considering that most of the files are smaller than 512 bytes. Now this is perhaps a silly thought, but wouldn't it be more sensible to have just one Makefile for each port? All such a Makefile would have to do is download its port skeleton (on demand), and then do a make in that skeleton's directory. After that, everything should be the same as it is now. Well, the ports collection is manageable now (although it takes AGES to download/cvsup), but will it be in the future? Just a thought. Dean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FED5158AB for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27745; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:59:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Max Gotlib Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial ports programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Max Gotlib wrote: > Hi! > > Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: > I need some kind of action (while coding user space > program actively handling the serial port) to get > sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. > I know about "ioctl(fd, TIOCDRAIN)", but this ioctl > is accomplished with tty buffers draining to (probably) > FIFO buffer of the serial port. Is there any (portable > preferably) way to get an acknolege or to block until > FIFO buffer is cleared? The situation is that I can't > simply write additional 64 bytes (I did not see any > serial ports with FIFO larger than 64 bytes) and > drain the tty buffers - I have to catch the exact > moment ... The rate that characters drain from a UART is determined by the currently active bit rate AND the absence of any change in the DTR and CTS lines. You can sleep the time involved in transmitting the characters. You can set up to be notified of any changes in the state of the DTR and CTS lines, from the driver, and do that portably too (signals). As long as you don't get a signal to indicate the change, and you wait the time period it takes to drain the fifo, then you can rely on the fact that the UART is drained. This is no indication that the characters actually got to the other end, of course, but they'll have left your UART. > > Thanks in advance, > Max. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8:20:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bluerose.windmoon.nu (c66498-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.123.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C088D158DE for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu) Received: from localhost (fengyue@localhost) by bluerose.windmoon.nu (Windmoon-Patched/8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03448 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:25:46 -0700 (PDT) From: =?ISO-9550?B?o8C359TCv82jwA==?= To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pthread scheduling? In-Reply-To: <19990527104808.C15567@msen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems on 2.2.8 and 3.1, pthread_attr_getschedpolicy and pthread_attr_setschedpolicy are not implemented. nm /usr/lib/libc_r.a | grep pthread_attr_getschedpolicy Even tho I could see it from the pthread manpage. So, how do you guys do thread scheduling? Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8:44:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F317514C57 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:44:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05552; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:33:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:33:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A bug in namei cache? (stale entries) In-Reply-To: <867lpufysx.fsf@not.demophon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27 May 1999, Ville-Pertti Keinonen wrote: > zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) writes: > > > Suppose you want to mv a directory file (with subdirectories) to another > > name (it is like grafting a subtree to another point), the namecache > > associated with the source directory file will be purged by calling > > cache_purge() (done in ufs_rename()?). However, the routine cache_purge() > > does not purge cache entries recursively down the subtree. Will this > > result in a lot of stale entries in the namecache? FreeBSD 3.1 no longer > > The name cache only caches component names, not paths, so the entries > are still valid. > Thanks for your reply. I understand now that the namecache only acts on individual component names, not on the entire pathname. The following is based on my understanding: Suppose, you have a directory hierarchy a -> b -> c. In each of a, b, and c, we have the following files: a: ., .., a1, a2, a3, b (a1, a2, a3 are not directory files) b: ., .., b1, b2, b3, c (b1, b2, b3 are not directory files) If I do a "mv a a_new", then cache entries for a, a1, a2, a3, b will be purged from the cache. Although b is purged from the namecache, we can still find it by other means (e.g. ufs_ihashget() called by ffs_vget()). So the entries for b1, b2, b3, c are still useful. So the namei cache will not contain any stale entries. Am I right? -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 8:48:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from caffeine.internal.enteract.com (caffeine.internal.enteract.com [207.229.129.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AE3214CDE for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 17343 invoked from network); 27 May 1999 15:48:38 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by caffeine.internal.enteract.com with SMTP; 27 May 1999 15:48:38 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA30870; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:48:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:48:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Don Lewis Cc: Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? In-Reply-To: <199905271432.HAA10749@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Don Lewis wrote: > On May 26, 6:59pm, Graeme Tait wrote: > } The filesystem is built with 4096 byte blocks, 512 byte fragments, and > } 2048 bytes/inode, and is mounted 'async noatime'. > > If a file shrinks by one fragment, it'll most likely leave a one > fragment gap in the block that can't be reused by another (new) file, > since the the minimum file size is two fragments. You could easily > get a 12.5% wasteage just from that. This is just shockingly nasty disk usage. I am unable to think of anything much worse, except more of this, with files that change all the time. > > It might help somewhat if a file that grows by a fragment can allocate > the free fragment immediately preceeding it instead of being relocated > to a fresh block. I don't know if FFS does this or not. FFS doesn't do this, and I don't think it could. What I think I would do if I had to deal with something this evil, is go to a 2048 fragment size. Most files will fit in one frag, so the the reallocation problem should be fixed. There will be 1536 blocks wasted for the largest of the small files. Not knowing the distribution of the file sizes, I can't make judgements about what the space wastage will add up to. However, space you can't allocate might as well not be there. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 9: 4:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from datacompusa.com (tnt2-27-167.iserv.net [204.157.27.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8FD14C57; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (msb.datacompusa.com [192.168.1.100]) by datacompusa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18893; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:02:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Message-Id: <199905271602.MAA18893@datacompusa.com> Subject: Re: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Date: Thu, 27 May 99 12:03:53 -0400 x-sender: msb@datacompusa.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: msb To: "Bruce Evans" , , Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>I have multiprocessor machine: >> >>matherboard SOYO 5TX2/X5 with 2 intel 166 proceccors >>multiport card Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep >> >>All good work until somthing do start to send to /dev/cXX >>Then kernel panic and reboot !!! >> >There seems to be a problem with nested locks. What was the panic >message? I have the same problem with my Cyclom Ye cards (both the isa & pci variety) The kernel panics with: panic messages: --- panic: rslock: cpu: 0, addr: 0xf026a15c, lock: 0x00000001 mp_lock = 00000001; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 a stack trace shows: #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xf01340a5 in panic (fmt=0xf0218870 "from debugger") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xf0119e35 in db_panic (addr=-266450897, have_addr=0, count=-1, modif=0xf8cf0bf0 "") at ../../ddb/db_command.c:432 #3 0xf0119dd5 in db_command (last_cmdp=0xf0232fbc, cmd_table=0xf0232e1c, aux_cmd_tablep=0xf0245c50) at ../../ddb/db_command.c:332 #4 0xf0119e9a in db_command_loop () at ../../ddb/db_command.c:454 #5 0xf011c1eb in db_trap (type=3, code=0) at ../../ddb/db_trap.c:71 #6 0xf01e45d1 in kdb_trap (type=3, code=0, regs=0xf8cf0ce4) at ../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:157 #7 0xf01f7bd8 in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = -257314816, tf_esi = 256, tf_ebp = -120648408, tf_isp = -120648436, tf_ebx = -266377223, tf_edx = -266174249, tf_ecx = 8, tf_eax = 18, tf_trapno = 3, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266450897, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 70, tf_esp = -266174265, tf_ss = -266228530}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:548 #8 0xf01e482f in Debugger (msg=0xf021acce "panic") at ../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:317 #9 0xf013409c in panic ( fmt=0xf01f67f9 "rslock: cpu: %d, addr: 0x%08x, lock: 0x%08x") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:444 #10 0xf01f67f9 in bsl1 () #11 0xf01fd2b9 in cyopen (dev=12416, flag=5, mode=8192, p=0xf8ceae60) at ../../i386/isa/cy.c:755 #12 0xf0162d25 in spec_open (ap=0xf8cf0e30) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:210 #13 0xf0162ba9 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf8cf0e30) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:129 #14 0xf01c6121 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf8cf0e30) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2312 #15 0xf015d436 in vn_open (ndp=0xf8cf0f04, fmode=5, cmode=0) at vnode_if.h:163 #16 0xf0159f45 in open (p=0xf8ceae60, uap=0xf8cf0f94) at ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:935 #17 0xf01f8423 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 134868999, tf_esi = 134800052, tf_ebp = -272638536, tf_isp = -120647708, tf_ebx = 134865472, tf_edx = 11, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 5, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134548388, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -272638592, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #18 0xf01e4fec in Xint0x80_syscall () line 755 in cy.c is a call to commctl which is also defined in cy.c cy.c line 755 is "(void)commctl(com, TIOCM_DTR | TIOCM_RTS, DMSET);" after crash debugging shows that the value of com is 0x3 at the time of crash. Since com is a pointer, I think we know that it is wrong. I have added a printf statement to a varitation of cy.c that shows that just before the call to commctl, the value of com is correct (not 3). Any help towards getting the cy driver up and running on the smp kernel would be appreciated. -- Michael Boers Datacomp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 9:12:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3425114C4B for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id MAA00522; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199905271611.MAA00522@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread scheduling? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems on 2.2.8 and 3.1, pthread_attr_getschedpolicy and > pthread_attr_setschedpolicy are not implemented. > > nm /usr/lib/libc_r.a | grep pthread_attr_getschedpolicy > > Even tho I could see it from the pthread manpage. > > So, how do you guys do thread scheduling? Upgrade to 3.2-stable or use pthread_setprio/pthread_getprio. bash-2.02$ uname -v FreeBSD 3.2-BETA #3: Tue May 11 19:06:08 EDT 1999 bash-2.02$ nm /usr/lib/libc_r.a | grep pthread_attr_getschedpolicy 00000000 T pthread_attr_getschedpolicy Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 9:32:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDE914C0C; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA15122; Fri, 28 May 1999 02:31:48 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 02:31:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199905271631.CAA15122@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, bob@anet.donetsk.ua, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, mboers@datacompusa.com Subject: Re: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>There seems to be a problem with nested locks. What was the panic >>message? > >I have the same problem with my Cyclom Ye cards (both the isa & pci >variety) > >The kernel panics with: > >panic messages: >--- >panic: rslock: cpu: 0, addr: 0xf026a15c, lock: 0x00000001 >mp_lock = 00000001; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 That's the problem with nested locks. >after crash debugging shows that the value of com is 0x3 at the time of >crash. Since com is a pointer, I think we know that it is wrong. I have >added a printf statement to a varitation of cy.c that shows that just >before the call to commctl, the value of com is correct (not 3). I don't think that's the problem. >Any help towards getting the cy driver up and running on the smp kernel >would be appreciated. See hints in my previous mail. The main problem is that disable_intr() isn't doesn't nest properly and I only avoided this problem for !SMP case. The SMP disable_intr() is an evil macro that calls a locking function which crashes if the lock is already held. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 9:42:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6981507D for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03346 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905271642.MAA03346@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:39:11 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: mbuf stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this problem? What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the original system design? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 10: 9:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD951515A for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16973; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Alex Belits Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX scribe bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Alex Belits wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Doug White wrote: > > > If anyone had a DV (FireWire) camera they could make available, I could > > ship my mac G3/350 down and edit the data it into video clips, then serve > > it with QuickTime Streaming. Put together a decent webpage for it all ... > > burn it to CD... whee ... :) > > Won't it be umm... ironic considering that new Quicktime doesn't and > won't work on anything that even remotely resembles Unix? Well, if you have a MacOSX box you can watch & serve it, and that's UNIX. More FreeBSD than you think. :) The RealVideo encoder costs money, and the QTS server is free (open source even). Besides, I want to play with it. Doug White Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 10:20:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1F61500E for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA21260; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA24139; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:19:40 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA25884; Thu, 27 May 99 10:19:38 PDT Message-Id: <374D7EA9.450D8A8B@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:19:37 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Brevik Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RS232 status lines, read with TIOCMGET.. [solved] :) References: <199905270753.JAA00777@father.ludd.luth.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Brevik wrote: > > Some of you maybe saw my letter about the (4)tty ioctl "TIOCMGET int *state". > The issue has been solved and the answer is that indeed the sio.c driver only > reads the status line at opening. > However a status line change will trigger a interrupt, and cause the driver to > read status lines once more. Thus functionality achived with minimum cpu load. > > Seems the status lines are not sensitive for ground connection. Ie it will not > change bit value between gnd connection and no connection. I guess that was a > bad TTL habit :-) > > Maybe this could be used in freebsd handbook or other documentation.. ? > (to help others) The sio man page would be the appropriate place to put it. You're saying the driver doesn't detect connection or disconnection of the signal ground? I don't see how it could, but it can't hurt to document it anyway. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 10:21:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90316158A1 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@walker3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18820 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:21:14 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:21:08 -0700 Received: from walker3.apple.com (walker3.apple.com [17.219.24.201]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10826 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:21:06 -0700 Received: by walker3.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02035 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905271721.KAA02035@walker3.apple.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mbuf stuff Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:20:58 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Dennis > Date: 1999-05-27 09:43:09 -0700 > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: mbuf stuff > > We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device > interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when > rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is > run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this problem? > > What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is > allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the > original system design? This may be already clear, but just in case: m_get has an argument (nowait) to tell the allocater whether it's ok to sleep to wait for buffers in a low-memory situation. When called from interrupt level, the call can't sleep, so you have to set 'nowait' to M_DONTWAIT. This means that you *have* to deal with a null return in this case. In your specific case, rtalloc() calls rtalloc1(), which raises the processor priority to splnet (I'm looking at a 3.1 source base). You can interrupt rtalloc() without harm. I do wonder why you're always in that routine when this occurs, but I can't provide any illumination there. How frequently does this occur? Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | When crypto is outlawed, Apple Computer, Inc. | Only outlaws will have crypto. 2 Infinite Loop | Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 11:13:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arc.hq.cti.ru (arc.hq.cti.ru [195.34.40.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C249515906 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tejblum@arc.hq.cti.ru) Received: from arc.hq.cti.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arc.hq.cti.ru (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA69952; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:12:41 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199905271812.WAA69952@arc.hq.cti.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "David E. Cross" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel debugging assistance In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 10:32:00 EDT." <199905271432.KAA21944@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:12:41 +0400 From: Dmitrij Tejblum Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I don't think that this dump is useful for debugging this problem. Perhaps, if > > you compile the kernel with DEBUG_LOCKS, you will get more useful info. > > I checked through the source for DEBUG_LOCKS, it doesn't appear to do anything > other than to printout information.... information that I already have access > to by way of this dump file. I will turn it on regardless swo it makes my > life a bit more simple. Hmm. As I see, DEBUG_LOCKS don't print out anything. The kernel with DEBUG_LOCKS will store the file and line number of every locker in the vnode. > > In looking through this, and at the program that used to cause this problem > reliably (it no longer does, even though nothing changed on the client or > workstation; I am guessing that it is a race condition that happens 5% of > the time and I filled my quota for the next 20 years ;) I have a theory > what is going on... NFS service is entirely in the kernel for FreeBSD, > excepting the NFSDs which mostly sit arround to give the kernel contexts to > pass requests into. NFS uses its own namei mechanism which requests a lock > on what it is looking up. The standard namei mechanism request locks on what it is looking up too. > What if it gets 2 requests at about the same > time for the same file. One nfsd service only one request once. When it try to lock something locked by another nfsd (or, in general, another program), it will wait until the lock is released. After nfsd served a request, it has to release all the locks it got. I think, your panic is caused by nfsd forgot to release a lock. If so, the bug is not where it paniced, but some time before. This is why I suggested DEBUG_LOCKS. Unfortunately, as Don Lewis pointed out, it will not very useful too :-(. Dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 11:37:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0CCE15935 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:37:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01276; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905271834.LAA01276@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters Cc: Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 23:24:17 MDT." <374CD701.56711641@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:34:53 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Darren Reed wrote: > > > > It appears that having "pccardd" enabled in /etc/defaults/rc.conf > > causes it to be started very early with the end result of the > > "pcic controller" also allocating irq9 (in a separate pair of > > messages). i.e. this appears early on: > > > > PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > > pcic: controller irq 5 > > > > just before "Initializing PC-card drivers: fdc" - fdc ?! - and then Yes, we support the YE-Data floppy controller card. > > later, whilst fsck'ing or whatever, I saw this: > > > > PC-Card Cirrus Logic PD672X (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > > pcic: controller irq 9 > > > > What's going on here ? This is breakage in the 3.1 release's pccard infrastructure. Remove the 'kldload' line from /etc/rc.pccard, and make sure you have both the pcic and card devices in your kernel. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 11:39:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F94A14BE4 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01298; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905271836.LAA01298@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Darren Reed Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 16:19:46 +1000." <199905270619.QAA09645@cheops.anu.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:36:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In some mail from Wes Peters, sie said: > [...] > > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > > pcic: controller irq 3 > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Initializing PC-card drivers: sio > > Why does it list "sio" here ? I don't see where sio is actually > used with PCMCIA here...why doesn't it list ed0 too ? (Is this a > bug ?) It lists sio because sio is pccard-compatible; it's just noise indicating that it's aware that sio is a pccard driver. > > changing root device to wd0s2a > > Card inserted, slot 1 > > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > > pcic: controller irq 5 > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Card inserted, slot 3 > > ed0: address 00:80:c8:8c:01:58, type NE2000 (16 bit) > > Does this imply that IRQ's 3 & 5 are for use by the respective slots ? No, it indicates you've loaded the pcic driver twice. Not your fault, see the previous response I sent. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 11:41: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33BF1595B for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01313; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905271837.LAA01313@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Max Gotlib Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serial ports programming In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 11:57:41 +0600." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:37:56 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi! > > Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: > I need some kind of action (while coding user space > program actively handling the serial port) to get > sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. > I know about "ioctl(fd, TIOCDRAIN)", but this ioctl > is accomplished with tty buffers draining to (probably) > FIFO buffer of the serial port. Is there any (portable > preferably) way to get an acknolege or to block until > FIFO buffer is cleared? The situation is that I can't > simply write additional 64 bytes (I did not see any > serial ports with FIFO larger than 64 bytes) and > drain the tty buffers - I have to catch the exact > moment ... You could close the device, but that may have an adverse effect on your application, as it will drop DTR. There is no other way, no. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 11:41:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70287159A6 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01338; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905271839.LAA01338@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: thinkton@990.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: locating the initialized data fjile In-reply-to: Your message of "27 May 1999 08:14:55 -0000." <19990527081455.13637.fmail@990.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:39:43 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > my questions are at /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot > v 3.0 This code is obsolete and not used anymore. > 1. during boot stage, the initialized data is loaded after kernel text= , > but, where is the file that the initialized data is defined in? The kernel. > 2. what is raw boot? A modified biosboot that doesn't have a filesystem on the disk. -- = \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 12: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D79614ED4 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au) Received: (qmail 18275 invoked by uid 1001); 27 May 1999 02:15:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990527021515.18274.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:15:14 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Wes Peters Cc: Keith Anderson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Book stores [was: Re: serial ports] References: <374C3A6F.963C24AC@softweyr.com> In-reply-to: <374C3A6F.963C24AC@softweyr.com> of Wed, 26 May 1999 12:16:15 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Both of these appear to be in print currently, so you should be able to > find them (or order them) through any reputbale book shop. Does > Australia have a good on-line bookstore yet? This might be a good > opportunity for some FreeBSD hackers with ecommerce skills and a few > million dollars to invest in stock, or someone who already owns a > bookstore. ;^) The vast majority of the Australian population lives close to one or more of the fine technical book stores, which normally have these titles on their shelves or can get them in a day or two. And, for the odd title that is not available locally, there is always amazon.com which works pretty well for me. -- Greg Black -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 12:10:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.skunk.org (unknown [207.25.53.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB8C1597A for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@penelope.skunk.org) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by mailhost.skunk.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28977 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:10:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben Rosengart To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: time zone trouble with 2.2.8 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I am trying to set the time zone to GMT on some 2.2.8 machines. This is trivial on a 3.x system (cd /usr/share/zoneinfo && tzsetup GMT), but on 2.x, tzsetup(8) doesn't take a time zone argument. Is there another interface I can use? Or is it safe to copy a -stable tzsetup(8) over and use that? Or for that matter a -stable copy of /etc/localtime? Judging from a diff of the source code to tzsetup, the localtime format hasn't changed, but I want to make sure, as these are semi-production systems. I await your answers with bated breath. I'd appreciate a cc on any replies, as I am swamped enough with -current and -stable and so I don't read -hackers. Thanks in advance. -- Ben UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 12:29: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2941599B for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:29:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01660; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905271926.MAA01660@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mbuf stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 11:39:11 EDT." <199905271642.MAA03346@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:26:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device > interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when > rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is > run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this problem? It sounds like your device's interrupt handler should be in the 'net' mask; you certainly shouldn't be doing anything that manipulates mbufs in a non-'net'-masked interrupt handler. > What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is > allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the > original system design? The mbuf pool might be empty. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 13: 5: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whale.cs.indiana.edu (whale.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.252.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CB5159D4 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chiuk@cs.indiana.edu) Received: (from chiuk@localhost) by whale.cs.indiana.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/IUCS_2.28) id PAA04259; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:04:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:04:40 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Chiu X-Sender: ken@bakery.chiu.nom To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: c9x (new ANSI C) In-Reply-To: <19990519180151.A226@whizkidtech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 May 1999, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > It should be the constructor that allocates the memory; the > destructor that frees it. That way you could rely on having exactly the > amount of memory needed for each class no matter what version of the class > library you use. Allowing the constructor to allocate the memory would certainly be an idea to consider if you were designing a new language, but it would have a lot of ramifications. You would essentially have to add a layer of indirection throughout the language. It would be hard to consider it an extension of C, as originally intended. I actually would have preferred that they just designed a completely new language, but in that case, it probably would not have become popular. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 13:12: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9246E159E6 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA51618; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:09:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199905272009.QAA51618@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith Cc: Max Gotlib , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Serial ports programming References: <199905271837.LAA01313@dingo.cdrom.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 11:37:56 PDT." <199905271837.LAA01313@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:09:33 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi! > > > > Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: > > I need some kind of action (while coding user space > > program actively handling the serial port) to get > > sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. > > I know about "ioctl(fd, TIOCDRAIN)", but this ioctl > > is accomplished with tty buffers draining to (probably) > > FIFO buffer of the serial port. Is there any (portable > > preferably) way to get an acknolege or to block until > > FIFO buffer is cleared? The situation is that I can't > > simply write additional 64 bytes (I did not see any > > serial ports with FIFO larger than 64 bytes) and > > drain the tty buffers - I have to catch the exact > > moment ... > > You could close the device, but that may have an adverse effect on your > application, as it will drop DTR. > > There is no other way, no. Generally speaking, when you have this type of concern regarding communications between two devices, you have to rely on the remote device to acknowledge the data. Even if you knew all the bits left the UART in your serial port, the data could have been damaged along the way, or might simply be queued up inside of an error-corrected modem that's trying to deliver the data to the remote end. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 14: 4:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F30115605 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00371; Thu, 27 May 1999 21:56:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rjs) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:56:37 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199905272056.VAA00371@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: ben@skunk.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Ben Rosengart on Thu, 27 May 1999 15:10:14 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: time zone trouble with 2.2.8 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I am trying to set the time zone to GMT on some 2.2.8 machines. This >is trivial on a 3.x system (cd /usr/share/zoneinfo && tzsetup GMT), but >on 2.x, tzsetup(8) doesn't take a time zone argument. Is there another >interface I can use? Or is it safe to copy a -stable tzsetup(8) over >and use that? Or for that matter a -stable copy of /etc/localtime? >Judging from a diff of the source code to tzsetup, the localtime format >hasn't changed, but I want to make sure, as these are semi-production >systems. ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/GMT /etc/localtime Works fine for me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 14:25:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424AD15873 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA28412 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:23:55 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA69295 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:23:55 +0700 (NSS) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 04:23:55 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NSS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! Are there any projects to implement NSS under FreeBSD (or other *BSDs)? /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 14:41:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603D215A24 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA04730; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905272140.RAA04730@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:37:25 -0400 To: Mike Smith From: Dennis Subject: Re: mbuf stuff Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905271926.MAA01660@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:26 PM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >> We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device >> interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when >> rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is >> run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this problem? > >It sounds like your device's interrupt handler should be in the 'net' >mask; you certainly shouldn't be doing anything that manipulates mbufs >in a non-'net'-masked interrupt handler. Well how does one check/set this? > >> What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is >> allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the >> original system design? > >The mbuf pool might be empty. This one I figured out :-) Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 14:58:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9FF14C4E for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21252; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Dennis Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mbuf stuff In-Reply-To: <199905272140.RAA04730@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dennis wrote: > At 12:26 PM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >> We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device > >> interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when > >> rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is > >> run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this > problem? > > > >It sounds like your device's interrupt handler should be in the 'net' > >mask; you certainly shouldn't be doing anything that manipulates mbufs > >in a non-'net'-masked interrupt handler. > > Well how does one check/set this? Splnet is a 'soft interrupt' level. the device drivers should all use splimp() Soft interrupts are by definition held off while a hardware interrupt is being processes, however you may need to occasionally rais your spl level to splimp() when you need to ensure that a hardware interrupt is held off. I believe the old 'net' keyword in config files implied splimp, rather than splnet. julian > > > > >> What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is > >> allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the > >> original system design? > > > >The mbuf pool might be empty. You should always be ready to handle a mbuf allocation failure at the lowest levels where you cannot sleep. The problem may be maomentary but as you can't sleep() you can't wait for it to fix itself. > > This one I figured out :-) > > Dennis > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 15: 7:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A7E14C4E for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA04846; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905272206.SAA04846@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:03:12 -0400 To: Julian Elischer From: Dennis Subject: Re: mbuf stuff Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <199905272140.RAA04730@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:57 PM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dennis wrote: > >> At 12:26 PM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >> >> We've encountered a situation where mbuf allocations inside a device >> >> interrupt handler fails occasionally...and it always seems to happen when >> >> rtalloc() is interrupted. Is this due to some sort of locking (rtalloc is >> >> run at splnet())...should it perhaps be run at splimp() to avoid this >> problem? >> > >> >It sounds like your device's interrupt handler should be in the 'net' >> >mask; you certainly shouldn't be doing anything that manipulates mbufs >> >in a non-'net'-masked interrupt handler. >> >> Well how does one check/set this? > >Splnet is a 'soft interrupt' level. > >the device drivers should all use splimp() > >Soft interrupts are by definition held off while a hardware interrupt is >being processes, >however you may need to occasionally rais your spl level to splimp() >when you need to ensure that a hardware interrupt is held off. > >I believe the old 'net' keyword in config files implied splimp, rather >than splnet. > >julian > > >> >> > >> >> What other causes for mbuf failures might reasonably be expected? Is >> >> allocating mbufs at interrupt time something that wasnt expected in the >> >> original system design? >> > >> >The mbuf pool might be empty. > >You should always be ready to handle a mbuf allocation failure at the >lowest levels where you cannot sleep. The problem may be maomentary but as >you can't sleep() you can't wait for it to fix itself. This is easy to do, but the question is, I guess, what can be done to avoid it. Since most of the high speed drivers manipulate mbufs now, should the code that can cause mbuf allocation failures be at splimp()? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 15:17:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52CE14C4E for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28884; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:16:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Max Khon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NSS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 May 1999, Max Khon wrote: > hi, there! > > Are there any projects to implement NSS under FreeBSD (or other *BSDs)? Might be courteous of you, if you could at least include *some* kind of definition of what NSS is (like maybe a web pointer?) ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 15:52:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13C715067 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA05126; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:49:53 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA74146; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:49:52 +0700 (NSS) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 05:49:52 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NSS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! On Thu, 27 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Are there any projects to implement NSS under FreeBSD (or other *BSDs)? > > Might be courteous of you, if you could at least include *some* kind of > definition of what NSS is (like maybe a web pointer?) ah, I'm sorry. NSS stands for "Name Service Switch" NSS is implemented in Solaris 2.5 and glibc2. Some NSS info is available at http://www.rage.net/ldap/nss.shtml If FreeBSD had NSS it would be possible to use LDAP server (OpenLDAP) + nss_ldap instead of NIS. LDAP + pam_ldap partially solve this problem but LDAP + nss_ldap is much better solution. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 16: 1: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vmunix.psn.ie (bh-cw132-134.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.62.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B5115A04 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ad@fionn.sports.gov.uk) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by vmunix.psn.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10n8Ew-0000AV-00; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:03:02 +0000 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:03:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Doran X-Sender: ad@vmunix.psn.ie To: Max Khon Cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NSS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG NetBSD has had this for a while. - ad On Fri, 28 May 1999, Max Khon wrote: > hi, there! > > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > Are there any projects to implement NSS under FreeBSD (or other *BSDs)? > > > > Might be courteous of you, if you could at least include *some* kind of > > definition of what NSS is (like maybe a web pointer?) > > ah, I'm sorry. NSS stands for "Name Service Switch" > NSS is implemented in Solaris 2.5 and glibc2. > Some NSS info is available at > http://www.rage.net/ldap/nss.shtml > > If FreeBSD had NSS it would be possible to use LDAP server > (OpenLDAP) + nss_ldap instead of NIS. > > LDAP + pam_ldap partially solve this problem but LDAP + nss_ldap is much > better solution. > > /fjoe > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 19:51:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BED815146 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA53893 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:51:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: K6-2 MTRR support done (^_^) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-232869518-927859904=:53726" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-232869518-927859904=:53726 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, it took me one more day to get it working (I had a bogus bit-shift in there), and I did some cleaning (also made probing work). The K6-2 MTRR code works fine. It should be ready to be committed now, so I'll attach it to this message. (it is a required by files.i386, BTW) I'd like a way to test that this works for certain, but I don't have one :/ Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ --0-232869518-927859904=:53726 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="k6_mem.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="k6_mem.c" LyotDQogKiBDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTkgQnJpYW4gRnVuZGFrb3dza2kg RmVsZG1hbg0KICogQWxsIHJpZ2h0cyByZXNlcnZlZC4NCiAqDQogKiBSZWRp c3RyaWJ1dGlvbiBhbmQgdXNlIGluIHNvdXJjZSBhbmQgYmluYXJ5IGZvcm1z LCB3aXRoIG9yIHdpdGhvdXQNCiAqIG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbiwgYXJlIHBlcm1p dHRlZCBwcm92aWRlZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgY29uZGl0aW9ucw0K ICogYXJlIG1ldDoNCiAqIDEuIFJlZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9ucyBvZiBzb3VyY2Ug Y29kZSBtdXN0IHJldGFpbiB0aGUgYWJvdmUgY29weXJpZ2h0DQogKiAgICBu b3RpY2UsIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBvZiBjb25kaXRpb25zIGFuZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93 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IDB4MDA3DQoJCSkNCgkpKQ0KCQltZW1fcmFuZ2Vfc29mdGMubXJfb3AgPSAm azZfbXJvcHM7DQp9DQoNClNZU0lOSVQoazZtZW1kZXYsIFNJX1NVQl9EUklW RVJTLCBTSV9PUkRFUl9GSVJTVCwgazZfbWVtX2RydmluaXQsIE5VTEwpDQo= --0-232869518-927859904=:53726-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 22:18:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from biff.nerdpower.net (c13574-001.nerdpower.net [24.108.37.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1774C14DBF for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeff@nerdpower.com) Received: (qmail 11547 invoked by alias); 30 May 1999 03:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO flanders) (24.108.37.21) by biff.nerdpower.net with SMTP; 30 May 1999 03:53:43 -0000 From: "Jeff Lush" To: Subject: CVSup problem Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:19:45 -0600 Message-ID: <000001bea8c9$b329b360$15256c18@flanders.nerdpower.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I am new to FreeBSD and have been instructed to keep my ports up to date using CVSup. I have carefully studied the Handbook page on how to setup the process and have checked out the CVSup web site; however, I am having a bit of a problem. When I attempt to start CVSup I get an error stating that the supfile I created is empty. I am almost positive the syntax of my supfile is correct as I set it up much the same as the example files. I have tried running CVSup as both root and regular users but no luck. Here are the details of the error: homer# cvsup -L 2 npcvsupfile Parsing supfile "npcvsupfile" Empty supfile Here is the contents of the supfile: *default host=cvsup.ca.FreeBSD.org *default prefix=/usr *default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup *default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix *default tag=. ports-all I am using FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE. I have also installed Modula-3-lib-3.6 as the CVSup page of the handbook instructed. Any ideas on what might be wrong would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Lush To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 22:22:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6A514DBF for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip215.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.215]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5AB37096; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00913; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:22:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:22:31 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jeff Lush Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSup problem Message-ID: <19990528002231.A842@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <000001bea8c9$b329b360$15256c18@flanders.nerdpower.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: <000001bea8c9$b329b360$15256c18@flanders.nerdpower.net>; from Jeff Lush on Thu, May 27, 1999 at 11:19:45PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 28, 1999, Jeff Lush wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to FreeBSD and have been instructed to keep my ports up to date > using CVSup. I have carefully studied the Handbook page on how to setup the > process and have checked out the CVSup web site; however, I am having a bit > of a problem. When I attempt to start CVSup I get an error stating that the > supfile I created is empty. I am almost positive the syntax of my supfile is > correct as I set it up much the same as the example files. I have tried > running CVSup as both root and regular users but no luck. The best way to do this would actually be to execute the following commands: cd /usr/share/examples/cvsup cvsup -h cvsup.ca.freebsd.org ports-supfile -- Chris Costello Justify my text? I'm sorry but it has no excuse. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 22:26:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2901152B7 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29729; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA09813; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905280526.WAA09813@vashon.polstra.com> To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: more on the pcmcia saga. In-Reply-To: <199905270619.QAA09645@cheops.anu.edu.au> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199905270619.QAA09645@cheops.anu.edu.au>, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Wes Peters, sie said: > [...] > > PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) > > pcic: controller irq 3 > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Initializing PC-card drivers: sio > > Why does it list "sio" here ? I don't see where sio is actually > used with PCMCIA here...why doesn't it list ed0 too ? (Is this a > bug ?) Yes, this was a bug. I committed the fix on April 27: jdp 1999/04/27 11:34:14 PDT Modified files: sys/pccard pccard.c Log: Fix the code that prints the "Initializing PC-card drivers" message so that the list of drivers is correct. This is a slightly simplified version of the patch from the PR. PR: misc/10544 Submitted by: Christophe Colle Revision Changes Path 1.75 +3 -4 src/sys/pccard/pccard.c jdp 1999/04/27 11:39:25 PDT Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_3) sys/pccard pccard.c Log: MFC 1.74 -> 1.75: Print correct list of PC-Card drivers. Revision Changes Path 1.68.2.3 +3 -4 src/sys/pccard/pccard.c John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 27 22:51:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616F152D1 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:51:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40353>; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:35:23 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:51:04 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? To: wayne@msen.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99May28.153523est.40353@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Michael R. Wayne" wrote: >Long ago, back when disks were small, slow and expensive, someone >wrote a program that properly defragged a Unix filesystem. If it was that long ago, chances are it is pre-FFS - the System 5 File System and its predecessors. I remember using a Motorola SysVR3 system that included a disk de-fragmenting tool. Re-writing a disk in-place will always be slow because you're mostly doing small I/O's at random places on the platter. dump/newfs/restore is the safest way to defragment a disk. It's probably faster than an in-place de-fragmenter as well. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 0:14:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185B214C30 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:14:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA68168 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I will be in Japan from May 31st - June 3rd Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:15:37 -0700 Message-ID: <68163.927875737@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ... for a quick promo tour and would be more than happy to meet people while I'm there. So far, I have the evening of 5/31 free for whatever (group dinner?) and I'll be speaking at the Japan Unix Society meeting on 6/1 from 18:30 - 20:30, after which we'll be having a small dinner party until around 22:30. On 6/2, Satoshi and I will also be leading a FreeBSD BOF at a networking conference in Tokyo (unsure of what it's called - anyone here know?). On 6/3, I don't depart until 17:35 and may have some time in the afternoon if another interview we have tentatively scheduled for the morning doesn't run over. The rest of the afternoons I pretty much have booked solid for magazine interviews and such but get in touch with me while I'm there and I'll see what my schedule is looking like. I'll be staying at the Hotel JAL City in Yotsuya - just ask for the gaijin Mr. Hubbard. :) Hope to see some of you there! For more information, email event@jp.freebsd.org - the people there know my schedule far better than I do since they organized it. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 0:22:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.clarityconnect.com (mail2.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC9B14D86 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilson@ensim.com) Received: from ensim.com (170.1.220.2) by mail2.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Fri, 28 May 1999 03:23:00 -0400 Message-ID: <374E45A6.B5682AC5@ensim.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:28:38 -0700 From: Xun Wilson Huang Organization: Ensim Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help: mount disk.img as file system? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Suppose I have a disk image of some sort ( floppy or I do a "dd /dev/hda1 > disk.img" ), How can I mount it as part of my file system? I would like to do something like mount -t diskimage disk.img /mnt and then being able to play with files under /mnt? This would be a nice thing to have if I want to say rescue a disk or partition on this virtual thing first before playing with fire. Or seeing how well a defraqmentation prog works. Is there such thing avail on FreeBSD? wilson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 0:27: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA47E14C96 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:26:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01866; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:56:39 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <374E45A6.B5682AC5@ensim.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:56:39 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Xun Wilson Huang Subject: RE: Help: mount disk.img as file system? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-May-99 Xun Wilson Huang wrote: > Suppose I have a disk image of some sort ( floppy or I do a "dd > /dev/hda1 > disk.img" ), How can I mount it as part of my file system? I > would like to do something like > > mount -t diskimage disk.img /mnt > > and then being able to play with files under /mnt? > > This would be a nice thing to have if I want to say rescue a disk or > partition on this virtual thing first before playing with fire. Or > seeing how well a defraqmentation prog works. > > Is there such thing avail on FreeBSD? Yes, you need to use the vnode device (look in LINT) Try vnconfig vn0 disk.img mount /dev/vn0c /mnt --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 0:48: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 56DBC14D86 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 6924 invoked by uid 1001); 28 May 1999 07:47:57 -0000 Date: 28 May 1999 07:47:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990528074757.6921.qmail@ns.oeno.com> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Zhihui Zhang on Thu, 27 May 1999 11:33:03 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: A bug in namei cache? (stale entries) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Suppose, you have a directory hierarchy a -> b -> c. In each of a, b, and > c, we have the following files: > > a: ., .., a1, a2, a3, b (a1, a2, a3 are not directory files) > b: ., .., b1, b2, b3, c (b1, b2, b3 are not directory files) > > If I do a "mv a a_new", then cache entries for a, a1, a2, a3, b will be > purged from the cache. Although b is purged from the namecache, we can > still find it by other means (e.g. ufs_ihashget() called by ffs_vget()). > So the entries for b1, b2, b3, c are still useful. So the namei cache > will not contain any stale entries. > > Am I right? Yes, except that the "other means" for finding b are more commonly by holding a reference to the vnode (open file handle, currenct directory) or just by searching the directory again. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 1:19:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chouette.inria.fr (chouette.inria.fr [138.96.24.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770EB14BEE for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA07537; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:19:24 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:19:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905280819.KAA07537@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 - new ifnet structure X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The last FreeBSD release provides a new ifnet structure different from the one in 2.x-R. In 2.x-R we can have this code: { struct ifnet *ifp = ifnet; /* go through the ifnet list */ for ( ifp = ifnet; ifp; ifp = ifp->if_next) ... } What is it in 3.x-R assuming that the global variable ifnet is a 'struc ifnethead' and there is not if_next member ? BTW, I have not found the definition of the ifnethead structure, in what file is it ? Thanks Emmanuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 1:29:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D203514D0F for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:29:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA05216; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:29:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 May 1999 10:29:44 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey guys, I brushed the dust off a bunch of patches I had for libfetch and the fetch(1) command and made a patchkit of them (in the great tradition pioneered by messrs. Schmidt, Dillon and Yokota). Some of it is five month old patches I never got around to comitting, some of it is new code, and some of it is a complete replacement for the fetch(1) command. The code and documentation (yes, Nik, I wrote docs!) is available at . As usual, comments and patches are welcome. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 1:41:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FB814E13 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:39:13 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179628@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Emmanuel Duros' , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.2 - new ifnet structure Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:34:10 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Emmanuel Duros [SMTP:Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 10:19 AM > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 - new ifnet structure > > > The last FreeBSD release provides a new ifnet structure different from > the one in 2.x-R. > > In 2.x-R we can have this code: > > { > struct ifnet *ifp = ifnet; > > /* go through the ifnet list */ > for ( ifp = ifnet; ifp; ifp = ifp->if_next) > ... > } > > What is it in 3.x-R assuming that the global variable ifnet is a > 'struc > ifnethead' and there is not if_next member ? > > BTW, I have not found the definition of the ifnethead structure, in > what > file is it ? [ML] I don't have the source in front of me, but I think it uses queue.h macros now so that the definition probably looks like typedef LIST_HEAD( something, ifnet ) ifnethead; where LIST could also be TAILQ, CIRCQ, or something else (the AIX version of sys/queue.h contains only these three). /Marino > Thanks > > Emmanuel > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 2:17: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tclux1.cec.lu (tclux1.cec.lu [158.169.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E02A14D93; Fri, 28 May 1999 02:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be) Received: from MX6.CEC.BE (mx6.cec.be [158.169.131.17]) by tclux1.cec.lu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10146; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:15:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be Received: by MX6.CEC.BE (Soft-Switch LMS 3.1) with x400 via DCNBRU1 id 0057330006008086; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:14:59 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE/; Relayed; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:14:46 +0200 X400-Originator: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE/;0057330006008086000002L362] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Content-Identifier: ipfw/natd limita Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:14:46 +0200 To: , Subject: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered net to the internet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear all, I believe the problem that I am facing is common enough, but I have failed to find any extra information except some old postings describing possible changes to natd/ipfw behaviour in the future which do not seem to have taken place. The problem is that of connecting _and_ controlling a company net with unregistered IP address to the Internet via a multi-homed FreeBSD box using ipfw/natd. According to my understanding, all packets going through the outer interface of the mutli-homed machine should be diverted to natd as soon as possible. The problem appears to be that outgoing packets (through the firewall) are first translated to the firewall's IP address and _then_ further constrained by the firewall rules. This gives ALL internal machines the same "access privileges" to the internet as the firewall machine. For incoming packets this is simpler since they are first translated back to the real target and then passed through the firewall so you can control them by target IP address. It seems to me that outgoing packets through the outer interface should first be run (somehow) through the firewall and if succesfull pass through natd (without a further re-injection to the firewall ruleset) whereas incoming packets should pass first from natd and then pass through the firewall rules (the existing operation). [ It is clear that only "deny" rules can be added before the "divert" rule to control the outgoing packets of internal machines and this can prove very tricky and tedious ]. I have not been able to think of a solution to this problem especially if you are assigned a _single_ real IP address by your ISP. If you are assigned a certain number of IP address by your ISP you might concider translating addresses of groups of internal machines to some specific, registered IP (lets call this a virtual portal host). Each group of machines (represented by the portal IP) will be controlled differently by the firewall. But this is getting particularly problematic as control for outgoing traffic from a group of internal hosts has to be specified with the portal IP address whereas incoming traffic towards the group individually with each actual IP address. Any help or thoughts on this matter will be greatly appreciated. If an answer is found, I volunteer to write an FAQ explaining the solution in detail. If possible please CC answers to Konstantinos.Dryllerakis@dg21.cec.be. Dr. K J Dryllerakis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 2:21:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC02B14F7E for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 02:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA05343; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:21:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available References: <41042.927881541@axl.noc.iafrica.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 May 1999 11:21:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: Sheldon Hearn's message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 10:52:21 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 40 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn writes: > On 28 May 1999 10:29:44 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > I brushed the dust off a bunch of patches I had for libfetch and the > > fetch(1) command and made a patchkit of them [...] > Your mail has brought to mind a question I've never managed to sort out > in my head and which I'm loath to post to the list for fear of holy war. > Why do we need a fetch command in the here and now, when ftp appears to > provide equivalent functionality? Good question. The best answer I can give is "do one thing, and do it well". Adding http functionality to ftp(1) was IMHO wrong. Ftp(1) should concentrate on providing an interactive interface to the FTP protocol, and leave the rest to fetch(1). We need generic FTP and HTTP functionality for a variety of applications (first and foremost, sysinstall and pkg_add(1)), and we need a command-line interface to the FTP and HTTP protocols (fetch(1)). We also need an interactive interface to the FTP protocol (for doing stuff like proxying). These are two very different needs; the fetch(3) library is well suited to the former three applications (sysinstall, pkg_add(1) and fetch(1)) but poorly suited to the latter (ftp(1)). We could of course modify ftp(1) to use libfetch for URL parsing and for HTTP, and its own code for FTP... but I would consider that extremely ugly. Anyway, the patchkit doesn't really add much - it reimplements fetch(1) using the fetch(3) library, so we centralize FTP and HTTP functionality in one single library and avoid duplicating code (and bugs!) all over the place. (for the historically impaired, I originally wrote libfetch at Jordan's request for this exact purpose - it was intended to become the backend for the new installation suite, but I haven't heard from Eugene Skepner in over half a year.) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 2:32:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EA614F84; Fri, 28 May 1999 02:32:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:34:48 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179629@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: "'Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be'" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-question@freebsd.org Subject: RE: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered n et to the internet Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:29:45 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be > [SMTP:Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 11:15 AM > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-question@freebsd.org > Subject: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an > unregistered net to the internet > > It seems to me that outgoing packets through the outer interface > should first be run (somehow) through the firewall and if succesfull > pass through natd (without a further re-injection to the firewall > ruleset) whereas incoming packets should pass first from natd and then > pass through the firewall rules (the existing operation). [ It is > clear that only "deny" rules can be added before the "divert" rule to > control the outgoing packets of internal machines and this can prove > very tricky and tedious ]. > [ML] Did you consider using a firewall-cleanwall combination? In the essence, the idea is very simple: the cleanwall is inside the firewall and it does not allow unprivileged packets to reach the nat/firewall. I think that Bellowin's book explains this in detail. The downside is that you need two machines. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 3:28: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E00C14C8B for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29966; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:27:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03381; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:27:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905281027.LAA03381@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Sheldon Hearn , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available In-reply-to: Your message of "28 May 1999 11:21:13 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:27:20 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > We need generic FTP and HTTP functionality for a variety of > applications (first and foremost, sysinstall and pkg_add(1)), and we > need a command-line interface to the FTP and HTTP protocols > (fetch(1)). We also need an interactive interface to the FTP protocol > (for doing stuff like proxying). These are two very different needs; > the fetch(3) library is well suited to the former three applications > (sysinstall, pkg_add(1) and fetch(1)) but poorly suited to the latter > (ftp(1)). [.....] What about a non-interactive command for pushing stuff via ftp/http ? = This has always been lacking IMHO (``ftp -n < DES > -- = > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no -- = Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 3:37:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk (puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B892714C8B for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Received: from seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA) with ESMTP; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:29:44 +0100 Received: from localhost (smaraux@localhost) by seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18102 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:31:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from smaraux@seth.cpc.wmin.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:31:39 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastien Maraux To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: EXPORTMFS and net install security Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG has someone ever tried to use EXPORTMFS ? I plan to use this to export MFS space via NFS. I would like to use it to export the files that are needed to be exported in R/W mode, such as /dev and /var, for my network installation The server would have a huge swap space, like 2x its RAM add to 20M per client ( clients are 486, 8MB RAM) It could avoid having a swap file for each client and simplify the management of it. My clients are not real diskless clients, but it's only for 30 minutes, while I'm installing FreeBSD from the network (home made project). So It could avoid me to create a swap.IP# file for each station I install. I only use 3 or 4 file directories in read write mode, so I woulld like to mount it on a memory system and export the others in read only, so that my installation would be more secured. If someone have information on export MFS,vnconfig and using MFS, or a comment on this strategy that I didn't test yet, please, email me. Thanks bye Sebastien MARAUX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 4: 3:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4EC15A0F for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.96.75]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18873 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (housley@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18367 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-ID: <374E77F3.CAA34E6@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:03:15 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-BETA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered net tothe internet] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------201000ACCCA176B44F769977" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------201000ACCCA176B44F769977 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D System Supply, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 Pager: pagejim@notepage.com 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD" --------------201000ACCCA176B44F769977 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <374E7764.8FFA5D4D@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:00:52 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.2-BETA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be CC: freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered net tothe internet References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be wrote: > > Dear all, > > > It seems to me that outgoing packets through the outer interface should first be run (somehow) through the firewall and if succesfull pass through natd (without a further re-injection to the firewall ruleset) whereas incoming packets should pass first from natd and then pass through the firewall rules (the existing operation). [ It is clear that only "deny" rules can be added before the "divert" rule to control the outgoing packets of internal machines and this can prove very tricky and tedious ]. > Lets assume the out0 it the interface to the internet and in0 is you internal interface. And that 192.168.0.x is your internal network. If that is true you should be able to do:  allow all from 192.168.0.0/24 to 192.168.0.0/24 # allow all internal to # talk to each other allow tcp from 192.169.0.0/24 to any 25 # Every has mail allow udp from 192.168.0.0/25 to any 53 # DNS lookup allow all from boss to any # boss has full reign deny tcp from secretary to any 80 # no web for secretary divert 8668 ip from any to any via out0 deny tcp from any to any 137-139 in via out0 # Block netbios deny udp from any to any 53 in via out0 # Allow DNS in ..... the other program to look at is ipfilter. -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D System Supply, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 Pager: pagejim@notepage.com 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD" --------------201000ACCCA176B44F769977-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 4:10:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A00015A12; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:10:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA12992; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:43:42 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905280843.KAA12992@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered net to To: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:43:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be" at May 28, 99 11:14:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1313 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, configuring nat is a bit tricky, even more so if your machine is configured to do routing, but it is doable. In particular, you surely can filter packets before natd'ing them, using sequences like deny ip from unprivileged_ip to outside_ip deny tcp from privileged_ip to outside_ip unauthorized_service divert natd ip from prileged_ip to any (this is for the way out; i'll let you figure out what to use for pkts coming from the outside, plus additional 'recv in ifXX' etc. specifiers to put...) I think using the "via" specifier is not making the task very easy. > It is clear that only "deny" rules can be added before the "divert" > rule to control the outgoing packets of internal machines and this > can prove very tricky and tedious ]. actually you can use "skipto" rules as well if you need more complex tests. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 4:42:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C7015124 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA05658; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:40:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Brian Somers Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Sheldon Hearn , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available References: <199905281027.LAA03381@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 May 1999 13:40:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brian Somers's message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 11:27:20 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 34 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Somers writes: > What about a non-interactive command for pushing stuff via ftp/http ? > This has always been lacking IMHO (``ftp -n < gotchas). > > I haven't actually looked at libfetch, but I would think that the > functionality should be there. Libfetch supports FTP uploads (no HTTP uploads yet, I'm afraid, but it's on the todo-list). It should be trivial to write a small app which uploads stdin to a specified URL. The following should work (modulo error checking): #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { FILE *f; int c; f = fetchPutURL(argv[1], NULL); while ((c = fgetc(stdin)) != EOF) fputc(c, f); return 0; } Needless to say, this works with file: URLs as well. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 4:43:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F241214C41 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id NAA14023; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:11:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00770; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:09:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905281109.NAA00770@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Help: mount disk.img as file system? In-Reply-To: <374E45A6.B5682AC5@ensim.com> from Xun Wilson Huang at "May 28, 1999 0:28:38 am" To: wilson@ensim.com (Xun Wilson Huang) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:09:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Xun Wilson Huang wrote ... > Hi, > > Suppose I have a disk image of some sort ( floppy or I do a "dd > /dev/hda1 > disk.img" ), How can I mount it as part of my file system? I > would like to do something like > > mount -t diskimage disk.img /mnt > > and then being able to play with files under /mnt? > > This would be a nice thing to have if I want to say rescue a disk or > partition on this virtual thing first before playing with fire. Or > seeing how well a defraqmentation prog works. > > Is there such thing avail on FreeBSD? 'man vnconfig' is your friend. | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 5:16:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from linux.cca.usart.ru (linux.cca.usart.ru [194.226.230.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFA314CCB for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@cca.usart.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost) by linux.cca.usart.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA06844; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:35:20 +0600 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:35:16 +0600 (ESD) From: Max Gotlib To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial ports programming In-Reply-To: <199905272009.QAA51618@whizzo.transsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > > > Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: > > > I need some kind of action (while coding user space > > > program actively handling the serial port) to get > > > sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. > > > I know about "ioctl(fd, TIOCDRAIN)", but this ioctl > > > is accomplished with tty buffers draining to (probably) > > > FIFO buffer of the serial port. Is there any (portable > > > preferably) way to get an acknolege or to block until > > > FIFO buffer is cleared? The situation is that I can't > > > simply write additional 64 bytes (I did not see any > > > serial ports with FIFO larger than 64 bytes) and > > > drain the tty buffers - I have to catch the exact > > > moment ... > > > > You could close the device, but that may have an adverse effect on your > > application, as it will drop DTR. > > > > There is no other way, no. > > Generally speaking, when you have this type of concern regarding > communications between two devices, you have to rely on the remote device > to acknowledge the data. Even if you knew all the bits left the > UART in your serial port, the data could have been damaged along the way, > or might simply be queued up inside of an error-corrected modem that's > trying to deliver the data to the remote end. Yes, ut sounds resonable while speaking in "general" :) But the situation I'm digged in is the following: I have to handle some kinda radiomodem (DataRadio T96S, just the same the mars-walker was equipped with :). This modem really differs in interface from the "ordinary" RS-232 functionality. First it treats DTR being asserted as the command to switch to setup mode (that is known only to it's designers). Second, it uses RTS/CTS handshake to control it's transmitter, i.e. when RTS is asserted the tranmitter turns on and after some "heating" (marked with CTS assertion) modem is ready to be feeded with data. Then, after the data packet (we use short frames: 16-bytes length) is feeded, the RTS should be resetted to turn the transmitter off. On that stratum modem guarantees the last byte will be transmitted "uncuted" (so it is legal to reset RTS while the last byte is feeded). Because modem works in simplex mode only, the RTS line should be reseted as early as it is possible to "free the band". Looking throug the /sys/isa/sio.c and /sys/kern/tty* staff, I got an idea that: 1. it is impossible to be woken up on CTS dribble, more it is impossible to use current implementation of RTS/CTS flow control to follow such an ugly modem requirements; 2. it is impossible to be noted when the UART's FIFO is feeded to the wire; So, as far as I can imagine I have a choice between handling the interface "by hand" and writing my own sio driver. The second is not acceptable because I'd like to left some scope of portablity to my software. The first approach leeds to high CPU load values and a number of "tricks" while trying to produce time delays (for example, when I try to sleep for 5000 usec in non-realtime userspace process, usually I'm being woken up at the beginning of the next time-tick my process is granted with...). So the question was: are the things so bad as it seems to me ? I know that FreeBSD (as many other UNIX clones) is general-perpouse OS and is not designed for such situations, BUT i thought it's flexible enough to be "shrinked"... With best regards, Max. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 5:28:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from linux.cca.usart.ru (linux.cca.usart.ru [194.226.230.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F024114D28 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@cca.usart.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost) by linux.cca.usart.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA06932; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:53:53 +0600 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:53:52 +0600 (ESD) From: Max Gotlib To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial ports programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 May 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Max Gotlib wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > Some days ago I've faced with the following problem: > > I need some kind of action (while coding user space > > program actively handling the serial port) to get > > sure all the bytes I've wrote to it are _transmitted_. > > The rate that characters drain from a UART is determined by the > currently active bit rate AND the absence of any change in the DTR and > CTS lines. You can sleep the time involved in transmitting the > characters. You can set up to be notified of any changes in the state > of the DTR and CTS lines, from the driver, and do that portably too > (signals). As long as you don't get a signal to indicate the change, > and you wait the time period it takes to drain the fifo, then you can > rely on the fact that the UART is drained. Hmmm... Digged into sio/tty* sources, I did not find a way to be woken up on CTS assertion... I know, I'm far from being called unix kernel guru. And a question: HOW ? Thanks in advance, Max. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 5:58: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ockle.nanoteq.co.za (ockle.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE859152DC; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jk@nanoteq.co.za) Received: from nanoteq.co.za (localhost.nanoteq.co.za [127.0.0.1]) by ockle.nanoteq.co.za (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA12735; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:58:47 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from jk@nanoteq.co.za) Message-ID: <374E9307.8B2B2272@nanoteq.co.za> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:58:47 +0200 From: Johan Kruger Organization: Nanoteq X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: xl driver for 3Com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AC2AD663FF17AA1E224446C3" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AC2AD663FF17AA1E224446C3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there hackers. I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : -> Detect the first 3Com card normally. -> All cards hereafter must only be able to receive packets, not transmit them. Does anybody know how i can achieve this by changes in the file if_xl.c Even if you could point me to a specific subroutine it would be appreciated. Thanyou in advance --------------AC2AD663FF17AA1E224446C3 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jk.vcf" Content-Description: Card for Johan Kruger Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jk.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit begin:vcard n:Kruger;Johan x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nanoteq South Africa;Developement adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:jk@nanoteq.co.za title:Developement Engineer note:Electonic Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Johan Kruger end:vcard --------------AC2AD663FF17AA1E224446C3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 7:29:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2439515262 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32851; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:29:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08660; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:29:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199905281429.PAA08660@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brian Somers , Sheldon Hearn , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available In-reply-to: Your message of "28 May 1999 13:40:45 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:29:12 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Brian Somers writes: > > What about a non-interactive command for pushing stuff via ftp/http ? > > This has always been lacking IMHO (``ftp -n < > gotchas). > > > > I haven't actually looked at libfetch, but I would think that the > > functionality should be there. > > Libfetch supports FTP uploads (no HTTP uploads yet, I'm afraid, but > it's on the todo-list). It should be trivial to write a small app > which uploads stdin to a specified URL. The following should work > (modulo error checking): Thanks - that's *really* impressive ! (and just what I was after). > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9: 2:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DFC414E2E for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:02:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07798; Fri, 28 May 1999 12:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:19 -0400 To: Johan Kruger From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <374E9307.8B2B2272@nanoteq.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi there hackers. >I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : >-> Detect the first 3Com card normally. >-> All cards hereafter must only be able to receive packets, not >transmit them. >Does anybody know how i can achieve this by changes in the file if_xl.c > >Even if you could point me to a specific subroutine it would be >appreciated. >Thanyou in advance Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. Just so you know. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9: 3:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AF414F1E for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07818 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 12:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905281603.MAA07818@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:59:59 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: Re: mbuf stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >#10 0xf01cbe1a in l2_int () > >#11 0xf01dd8cd in ethintr_pci () > >#12 0xf01388f6 in rtalloc1 (dst=0xf01e8f18, report=1, ignflags=65536) > > at ../../net/route.c:132 > >#13 0xf01388ac in rtalloc_ign (ro=0xf01e8f14, ignore=65536) > > at ../../net/route.c:108 Am I wrong in assuming that this was in rtalloc1 when the interrupt occured? How can a network device interrupt a routine protected by splnet()? >In your specific case, rtalloc() calls rtalloc1(), which raises the >processor priority to splnet (I'm looking at a 3.1 source base). You >can interrupt rtalloc() without harm. I do wonder why you're always >in that routine when this occurs, but I can't provide any >illumination there. How frequently does this occur? it just started happening, which is wierd because the box has a month of uptime before upgrading the driver. Something may have gotten mucked up, but I'm trying to trace the actual cause to figure out what it might be. Its a T3 line, so its passing millions of packets in-between failures. I can toss te packets easy enough, but I've never seen this failure on a T1 line with months of uptime...so its baffling. thanks, Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9: 6:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E0081540E for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA13375; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:38:48 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905281338.PAA13375@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:38:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jk@nanoteq.co.za, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 28, 99 10:57:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 382 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi there hackers. > >I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : > >-> Detect the first 3Com card normally. > >-> All cards hereafter must only be able to receive packets, not > >transmit them. looks like the typical ipfw thing, rather than hacking the driver! (well, there are ARP, but can be done ...) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9: 9:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from datacompusa.com (tnt2-29-235.iserv.net [204.157.29.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D3C14E2E for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:09:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mboers@datacompusa.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (msb.datacompusa.com [192.168.1.100]) by datacompusa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01838; Fri, 28 May 1999 12:07:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mboers@datacompusa.com) X-Sender: msb@mail.datacompusa.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:08:52 -0400 To: bde@zeta.org.au From: Michael Scott Boers Subject: Re: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Try deleting the code in the SMP ifdefs in cy.c, and don't use fast >interrupts with SMP: >(a) for the pci version, don't use option CY_PCI_FASTINTR. >(b) for the isa version, delete the line with RI_FAST in it in cy.c. >See hints in my previous mail. The main problem is that disable_intr() >isn't doesn't nest properly and I only avoided this problem for !SMP >case. The SMP disable_intr() is an evil macro that calls a locking >function which crashes if the lock is already held. I commented out the SMP and FAST code, rebuilt the kernel from scratch and the panic still occurs. Is there other code that should be disabled? Is this fixed in 3.2? Why are there evil macro's in my computer? Why am I asking so many questions? -- Michael Boers Datacomp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9:15:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A248215323 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: from whistle.com (crab.whistle.com [207.76.205.112]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA57836 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA32866 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199905281615.JAA32866@whistle.com> Subject: PCMCIA "sio" problem with current To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wondering if I'm missing something here. I had PCMCIA stuff working for a NE2000 ethernet card but not for serial ports. Does anyone have serial ports working (ie. modems or serial cards)? I had this laptop working with 3.1 and just upgraded it to current and the serial port stopped working. Here is what is reported from pccardd: May 28 09:00:01 770z /kernel: Card inserted, slot 0 May 28 09:00:06 770z pccardd[1428]: Using I/O addr 0x3e8, size 8 May 28 09:00:06 770z pccardd[1428]: Setting config reg at offs 0xff80 to 0x5f, R eset time = 50 ms May 28 09:00:11 770z pccardd[1428]: Assigning I/O window 0, start 0x3e8, size 0x8 flags 0x7 May 28 09:00:11 770z pccardd[1428]: Assign sio2, io 0x3e8, mem 0x0, 0 bytes, irq 9, flags 80 May 28 09:00:11 770z pccardd[1428]: driver allocation failed for Xircom Significant boot messages: May 28 08:11:14 770z /kernel: PC-Card Intel 82365 (5 mem & 2 I/O windows) May 28 08:11:14 770z /kernel: pcic: controller irq 3 May 28 08:11:14 770z /kernel: Initializing PC-card drivers: ed xe Looking at the code /sys/pccard/pccard.c: static int allocate_driver(struct slot *slt, struct dev_desc *desc) { struct pccard_devinfo *devi; struct pccard_device *drv; int err, irq = 0, s; drv = find_driver(desc->name); printf("Found driver %s,%p\n",desc->name,drv); /*DJA DEBUG*/ if (drv == 0) return(ENXIO); Is returning not found since it is not in the list of "Initializing PC-card drivers: ed xe". Confirmed by my debug printf. grep sio /sys/i386/conf/files.i386, returns isa/sio.c optional sio device-driver Looking at /sys/isa/sio.c, line 96 on: #if 0 #include "card.h" #if NCARD > 0 #include #include #include #endif #if NPNP > 0 #include #endif #endif In 3.1 the laptop used /sys/i386/isa/iso.c and this code was not ifdef'ed out. This change appears to be part of the new-bus stuff with the changes narrowed down to i386/conf/files.i386 rev 1.236 isa/sio.c rev 1.216 So to me this looks like work to be done, ie. convert the pccard stuff to call new-bus drivers or some capatibility layer needs to be done or I'm smoking dope. Thanks, Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 9:32:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5B115434 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00857; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905281629.JAA00857@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:19 EDT." <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:29:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi there hackers. > >I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : > >-> Detect the first 3Com card normally. > >-> All cards hereafter must only be able to receive packets, not > >transmit them. > >Does anybody know how i can achieve this by changes in the file if_xl.c > > > >Even if you could point me to a specific subroutine it would be > >appreciated. > >Thanyou in advance > > Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. > Just so you know. It does? Have you spoken to Bill Paul about it? -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 10:20:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chouette.inria.fr (chouette.inria.fr [138.96.24.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2FA15189 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA11478; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:20:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:20:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905281720.TAA11478@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: mladavac@metropolitan.at Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179628@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> (message from Ladavac Marino on Fri, 28 May 1999 10:34:10 +0200) Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.2 - new ifnet structure X-URL: http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/personnel/eduros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [ML] I don't have the source in front of me, but I think it >uses queue.h macros now so that the definition probably looks like > typedef LIST_HEAD( something, ifnet ) ifnethead; > > where LIST could also be TAILQ, CIRCQ, or something else (the >AIX version of sys/queue.h contains only these three). I found a man (9) page on 'ifnet'. I have got all I need... Thanks, Emmanuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 10:40:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277F615339 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA64421; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Dennis Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mbuf stuff In-Reply-To: <199905281603.MAA07818@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG network devices need splimp() to block them the mbuf calls are splimp() protected. julian On Fri, 28 May 1999, Dennis wrote: > > >#10 0xf01cbe1a in l2_int () > > >#11 0xf01dd8cd in ethintr_pci () > > >#12 0xf01388f6 in rtalloc1 (dst=0xf01e8f18, report=1, ignflags=65536) > > > at ../../net/route.c:132 > > >#13 0xf01388ac in rtalloc_ign (ro=0xf01e8f14, ignore=65536) > > > at ../../net/route.c:108 > > Am I wrong in assuming that this was in rtalloc1 when the interrupt > occured? How can a network device interrupt a routine protected by splnet()? > > > >In your specific case, rtalloc() calls rtalloc1(), which raises the > >processor priority to splnet (I'm looking at a 3.1 source base). You > >can interrupt rtalloc() without harm. I do wonder why you're always > >in that routine when this occurs, but I can't provide any > >illumination there. How frequently does this occur? > > it just started happening, which is wierd because the box has a month of > uptime before upgrading the driver. Something may have gotten mucked up, > but I'm trying to trace the actual cause to figure out what it might be. > Its a T3 line, so its passing millions of packets in-between failures. > > I can toss te packets easy enough, but I've never seen this failure on a T1 > line with months of uptime...so its baffling. > > thanks, > > Dennis > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 11:17:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FDA14DC5 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08532 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905281817.OAA08532@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:13:36 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: Re: mbuf stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:40 AM 5/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >network devices need splimp() to block them > >the mbuf calls are splimp() protected. OOOOK, so that goes back to my original question....shouldnt the routines that would cause drivers to allocate mbufs to fail call splimp instead of splnet()? Dennis > >julian > > >On Fri, 28 May 1999, Dennis wrote: > >> > >#10 0xf01cbe1a in l2_int () >> > >#11 0xf01dd8cd in ethintr_pci () >> > >#12 0xf01388f6 in rtalloc1 (dst=0xf01e8f18, report=1, ignflags=65536) >> > > at ../../net/route.c:132 >> > >#13 0xf01388ac in rtalloc_ign (ro=0xf01e8f14, ignore=65536) >> > > at ../../net/route.c:108 >> >> Am I wrong in assuming that this was in rtalloc1 when the interrupt >> occured? How can a network device interrupt a routine protected by splnet()? >> >> >> >In your specific case, rtalloc() calls rtalloc1(), which raises the >> >processor priority to splnet (I'm looking at a 3.1 source base). You >> >can interrupt rtalloc() without harm. I do wonder why you're always >> >in that routine when this occurs, but I can't provide any >> >illumination there. How frequently does this occur? >> >> it just started happening, which is wierd because the box has a month of >> uptime before upgrading the driver. Something may have gotten mucked up, >> but I'm trying to trace the actual cause to figure out what it might be. >> Its a T3 line, so its passing millions of packets in-between failures. >> >> I can toss te packets easy enough, but I've never seen this failure on a T1 >> line with months of uptime...so its baffling. >> >> thanks, >> >> Dennis >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 11:19:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD2014DC5 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08540; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905281819.OAA08540@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:15:41 -0400 To: Mike Smith From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905281629.JAA00857@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:29 AM 5/28/99 -0700, you wrote: >> At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: >> >Hi there hackers. >> >I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : >> >-> Detect the first 3Com card normally. >> >-> All cards hereafter must only be able to receive packets, not >> >transmit them. >> >Does anybody know how i can achieve this by changes in the file if_xl.c >> > >> >Even if you could point me to a specific subroutine it would be >> >appreciated. >> >Thanyou in advance >> >> Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. >> Just so you know. > >It does? Have you spoken to Bill Paul about it? I dunno what it is, but we've had customers experiencing packet loss at high usage on 100Mb's nets...and the problem goes away when replacing them with intels. I dont know the details. Dennis > >-- >\\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith >\\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 11:59:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0E114DA2 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA06802; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA04030; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:58:50 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA07734; Fri, 28 May 99 11:58:43 PDT Message-Id: <374EE762.3091C5D4@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:58:42 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy Cc: wayne@msen.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: File system gets too fragmented ??? References: <99May28.153523est.40353@border.alcanet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > > "Michael R. Wayne" wrote: > >Long ago, back when disks were small, slow and expensive, someone > >wrote a program that properly defragged a Unix filesystem. > > If it was that long ago, chances are it is pre-FFS - the System 5 > File System and its predecessors. I remember using a Motorola > SysVR3 system that included a disk de-fragmenting tool. > > Re-writing a disk in-place will always be slow because you're mostly > doing small I/O's at random places on the platter. > > dump/newfs/restore is the safest way to defragment a disk. It's > probably faster than an in-place de-fragmenter as well. Interesting this should come up at this time. Somebody here handed me a copy of "Windows NT Systems" magazine yesterday, as a joke (in poor taste). It happened to be open to an add for PerfectDisk 2000 from Raxco Software. I used to work for Raxco, before they spun the security tools off into Axent Technologies and took that public; I thought Raxco had just died. Like all good VMS software houses, they just mutated into NT software houses. Anyhow, one of the first things I did at Raxco in 1991 was to write a detailed explanation of why SunOS didn't need a disk defragmenting product -- "ffs doesn't fragment files the way VMS does." A background task that moves disk blocks around, continually optimizing the filesystem layout always SOUNDS like a good idea. In practice, it rarely is. Consider the side effects of moving blocks around on the disk, in live files. You somehow have to lock the file(s) whose blocks you're currently munging, and lock the filesystem out of the pool of blocks you're munging them into, until you're done munging. This alone is enough to give me the willies. An offline tool that could re-write a filesystem in an optimal pattern while the disk is offline would be a much more feasible tool to produce. Developing a tool like this requires knowlege of the filesystem layout and great care, but little else. Operationally, taking a disk offline for any reason is upsetting, but if you can't break to optimize your disks, what CAN you break for? Be careful what you ask for, somebody might just make it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 13:15:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CEF9F14F30 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10944 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:03:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Algorithm used to delete part of a file Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am wondering what will happen to the underlying data blocks and indirect blocks of a file if I delete a part of the file - how these blocks are re-organized. I have no idea which source code should I look into to understand this. Maybe I should read the source code for vi or another editor. I hope someone can suggest me a better way to understand this or describe briefly the algorithm. Any help is appreciated. -Zhihui -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 14:56:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76402151DF for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: (from aron@localhost) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA02619 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:56:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:56:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Message-Id: <199905282156.QAA02619@cs.rice.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: symorder for FreeBSD-3.x Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, its seems that the program symorder only works on coff format object files. Is there an equivalent program in FreeBSD-3.x that works on elf object files ? - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 16:11:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA73914E8C for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:11:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: (from aron@localhost) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA04410 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:11:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Message-Id: <199905282311.SAA04410@cs.rice.edu> Subject: linked symbols using kldload To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:11:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm using FreeBSD-3.2 and am trying to upgrade to the kld interface from the old lkm interface for loadable kernel modules. kldload doesn't seem to produce a linker output file upon loading a module - modload used to do this on the other hand. I've found this output file extremely valuable for kernel debugging - I can read the addresses of variables in my module and then read/write the values from these addresses from /dev/kmem. Are there any plans to extend kldload to incorporate the same functionality ? - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 16:18: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D19015077 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion.ChrisBowman.com [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA11260; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:17:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199905282317.TAA11260@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:12:48 -0400 To: Zhihui Zhang From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: Algorithm used to delete part of a file Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:03 PM 5/28/99 -0400, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > >I am wondering what will happen to the underlying data blocks and indirect >blocks of a file if I delete a part of the file - how these blocks are >re-organized. I have no idea which source code should I look into to >understand this. Maybe I should read the source code for vi or another >editor. I hope someone can suggest me a better way to understand this or >describe briefly the algorithm. It is difficult to understand if you are talking at the file system layer (because you mention data and indirect blocks) or the application layer (you mention looking at the vi code). At the file system layer you don't delete blocks in the middle of a file. You can append to the file thus allocating new data blocks (and perhaps indirect blocks if they are needed) that will be added to the end of the file. Or you can truncate a file, thus freeing the data blocks (and perhaps indirect blocks) at the end of the. When you truncate a file the data blocks are returned to a list of free blocks, and when a block is later reused for another purpose it is either written to in it's entirety or zero filled, and then partially filed with your data (if you don't write the entire block). In either case blocks are never added or removed except at the end of the file, thus blocks never have to be "re-organized." They are simply allocated or freed. If this is the level of your interest then looking at vi source code won't help you. If, on the other hand, you want to know how an application like vi will deal with, for instance, a deletion that occurs in the middle of the file. It will essentially have to read in and write out the entire file, omitting the deleted material since there is no syscall or way to tell the file system to remove a part of the file in the middle. If this has not answered your question, please feel free to state it in more detail. -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 16:53:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from biff.nerdpower.net (c13574-001.nerdpower.net [24.108.37.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CB5614CA0 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 16:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeff@nerdpower.com) Received: (qmail 13032 invoked by alias); 31 May 1999 04:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO flanders) (24.108.37.21) by biff.nerdpower.net with SMTP; 31 May 1999 04:08:28 -0000 From: "Jeff Lush" To: Cc: Subject: RE: CVSup problem Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:55:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000001bea965$9259c3e0$15256c18@flanders.nerdpower.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19990528002231.A842@holly.dyndns.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello again! This command worked after I installed the ports-collection from sysinstall (although I probably could have grabbed the ports initially from this command) and grabbed the ports-supfile from an ftp mirror. > The best way to do this would actually be to execute the > following commands: > > cd /usr/share/examples/cvsup > cvsup -h cvsup.ca.freebsd.org ports-supfile > Now I have a directory filled with the ports for all applications available. A rather elementary question to ask is why keep this kind of directory stored locally? This particular machine is setup as an internet server for learning purposes. Knowing that would I be better off just keeping networking related ports (ports-net) locally? And how does using ports compare to installing packages from sysinstall? Is there any good literature available on explaining exactly what ports are and most importantly, how to use them. Last, what is the source tree (src-all) and should I grab it as well? Thanks for the help and patients with us newbie types. Jeff Lush To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 17:56:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9349A14D77 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 17:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA11804; Fri, 28 May 1999 20:44:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: "Christopher R. Bowman" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Algorithm used to delete part of a file In-Reply-To: <199905282317.TAA11260@quark.ChrisBowman.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 May 1999, Christopher R. Bowman wrote: > It is difficult to understand if you are talking at the file system layer > (because you mention data and indirect blocks) or the application layer (you > mention looking at the vi code). At the file system layer you don't delete > blocks in the middle of a file. You can append to the file thus allocating new > data blocks (and perhaps indirect blocks if they are needed) that will be added > to the end of the file. Or you can truncate a file, thus freeing the data > blocks (and perhaps indirect blocks) at the end of the. When you truncate a > file the data blocks are returned to a list of free blocks, and when a block is > later reused for another purpose it is either written to in it's entirety or > zero filled, and then partially filed with your data (if you don't write the > entire block). In either case blocks are never added or removed except at the > end of the file, thus blocks never have to be "re-organized." They are simply > allocated or freed. If this is the level of your interest then looking at vi > source code won't help you. Thanks for your valuable information. This explains why I have not found any routines in the files under /ufs/ffs and /ufs/ufs that re-organize the on-disk image of a file in that way. If a middle part of a file is deleted, then all the remaining part of the file must be read by an editor (such as vi) and written out to another place before the file length is truncated. This algorithm seems to be not very efficient. But disk is not like memory, where we can simply modify pointers to point to new locations easily, I guess there may be no better way to do this. If you have any ideas about why this is not done by the filesystem itself, please let me know. Thanks for your help. Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 18:12:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADFA14E7A for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:12:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id DAA07889; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:12:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Dennis Cc: Johan Kruger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 May 1999 03:12:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dennis's message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:19 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis writes: > At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: > > I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : > Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. > Just so you know. What FreeBSD version do you run? There were a few commits to the xl driver shortly before 3.2 which should have ironed out whatever problems remained. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 18:14:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995C914EBE for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id DAA07902; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:14:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: symorder for FreeBSD-3.x References: <199905282156.QAA02619@cs.rice.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 May 1999 03:14:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mohit Aron's message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 16:56:14 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mohit Aron writes: > its seems that the program symorder only works on coff format object > files. Is there an equivalent program in FreeBSD-3.x that works on elf > object files ? COFF? FreeBSD never supported COFF, to the best of my knowledge. You might want to take a look at objcopy(1). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 18:17:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE8714D14; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id DAA07941; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:17:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be Cc: , Subject: Re: ipfw/natd limitation: controlling access of an unregistered net to the internet References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 May 1999 03:17:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be's message of "Fri, 28 May 1999 11:14:46 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konstantinos.DRYLLERAKIS@DG21.cec.be writes: > I believe the problem that I am facing is common enough, but I have failed to find any extra information except some old postings describing possible changes to natd/ipfw behaviour in the future which do not seem to have taken place. Yes, the problem you're facing is a very common one, and is usually solved by switching to a Real Mail User Agent (tm) which breaks lines at 80 columns or less. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 18:42:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97029150E6 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA10275; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905290141.VAA10275@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:37:46 -0400 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: Johan Kruger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:12 AM 5/29/99 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Dennis writes: >> At 02:58 PM 5/28/99 +0200, you wrote: >> > I need to hack the driver file if_xl.c to do the following : >> Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. >> Just so you know. > >What FreeBSD version do you run? There were a few commits to the xl >driver shortly before 3.2 which should have ironed out whatever >problems remained. Im not sure, but Im certain that it wasnt 3.2. DB > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 21:30:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-129.camalott.com [208.229.74.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE81151B5 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02557; Fri, 28 May 1999 23:30:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) To: Greg Black Cc: Wes Peters , Keith Anderson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book stores [was: Re: serial ports] References: <374C3A6F.963C24AC@softweyr.com> <19990527021515.18274.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 28 May 1999 23:29:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: Greg Black's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 12:15:14 +1000" Message-ID: <86n1yoh51b.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > two. And, for the odd title that is not available locally, > there is always amazon.com which works pretty well for me. I've generally had better pricing with Bookpool (http://www.bookpool.com/) myself. I'm in West Texas, and the technical selection of most bookstores here concentrate on MCSE study guides and the like... No Stevens, no daemon book, no Knuth, little ORA. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 21:49: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 40C2E150C8 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA28640; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:48:51 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905290448.AAA28640@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 00:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905281600.MAA07798@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 28, 99 10:57:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1568 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Dennis had to walk into mine and say: > Note that this card/driver seems to have serious problems under heavy load. > Just so you know. This is statement is nothing more than baseless slander, just so *you* know. I really hate it when: - People claim to be having earth-shattering difficulties and then fail to provide *any* useful debugging information. You don't even tell us what version of FreeBSD you're having trouble with, or what version of the driver. (Nevermind exactly what card or what kind of machine you have it plugged into.) For all we know, your "serious problems under heavy load" may be due to you dropping a safe on the computer. - People have problems, fail to report them, and then wonder why things don't get fixed. If you have a real, detailed and accurate bug report to submit, then fine: let's hear it. But if you just want to make vague and unsubstantiated complaints, do me a favor and just keep it to yourself. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 22: 4:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-100.camalott.com [208.229.74.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E276514D5A for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 22:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02801; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:04:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) To: Don Lewis Cc: Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 29 May 1999 00:03:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: Don Lewis's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 07:15:56 -0700" Message-ID: <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 54 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You might try unmounting the filesystem and doing > tunefs -o space /dev/rawdevice > (which can also be done at newfs time). You may find that the > performance, especially write performance, isn't too good. I've been looking over FS performance tuning, trying to get my compiles to go a bit quicker, and started wondering a few things. As we all know, tunefs -o space will hurt write performance. Will it hurt read performance? If I don't care about install-time speed, but do care about run-time speed and free space, should I populate my filesystems at install time with space tuning? Is it possible to, on a restore, place down the directory tree with dummy entries for regular files, so you don't get a split-up directory when you populate it? I know that mtree'ing the fs ahead of time helps (and assume that mtree is breadth-first), but I don't recall any of our utilities that do a breadth-first restore by default. I don't even see a utility to prepare a file list for tar in a breadth-first manner; thoughts? About a year ago, I heard discussions about the usefulness of tunefs. Our OS has undergone lots and lots o' changes since then (unified VM/buffer cache, CAM, etc). newfs documents that rotdelay is useless, but what about maxcontig? About five minutes ago, I realized that one problem is that I recently installed a new disk, and forgot to enable softupdates on it (doh!). From the little I know, I don't quite understand why softupdates is a tunefs parameter, instead of a mount flag. Can a fs with softupdates turned on in the superblock work on a non-softupdates kernel without trouble? If so, would it be a good idea to have newfs turn it on by default? Does bad144 have any space or time overhead? Can it be disabled? How do people like to set up their filesystems these days? I've heard of people who like one big fs (not generally usable anymore because of the 1024 cyl limit), others who like the small root fs and one big fs for everything else, and some who like separate fs's for different things. All other things (disk speed, etc) being equal, what's this groups' opinion? Huzzah! to Dyson et al for making our VM system self-tuning. Any thoughts about hints to give it? Thanks, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 22:20:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC2814EF3 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 22:20:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA77876 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 01:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'd like to propose a change in struct socket, which should increase its functionality. It should first be noted that, along with my IPFW UID/GID code (which would be nice to have merged into HEAD too, and if I must, I'll clean up the ugly switch part), I included this change. Implementation time would be nil, as would testing. The change itself would be to store a pointer to struct pcred in each struct socket. The changes are already done, but I'd like to get rid of the so_uid too (if possible). Following the cred changes, I'd like to make a sysctl to find out a socket's credentials. After that, a decent identd to be shipped with FreeBSD (under the FreeBSD license, of course). How does all of this sound? I'm including the latest IPFW UID/GID patches, which have the so_cred functionality. Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ --- src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c.orig Thu Jan 21 20:46:32 1999 +++ src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c Wed Apr 21 07:41:03 1999 @@ -30,8 +30,10 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -333,6 +335,24 @@ } } + if (chain->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_UID) { + struct passwd *pwd = getpwuid(chain->fw_uid); + + if (pwd) + printf(" uid %s", pwd->pw_name); + else + printf(" uid %u", chain->fw_uid); + } + + if (chain->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_GID) { + struct group *grp = getgrgid(chain->fw_gid); + + if (grp) + printf(" gid %s", grp->gr_name); + else + printf(" gid %u", chain->fw_gid); + } + /* Direction */ if ((chain->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_IN) && !(chain->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_OUT)) printf(" in"); @@ -586,6 +606,8 @@ " src: from [not] {any|ip[{/bits|:mask}]} [{port|port-port},[port],...]\n" " dst: to [not] {any|ip[{/bits|:mask}]} [{port|port-port},[port],...]\n" " extras:\n" +" uid {user id}\n" +" gid {group id}\n" " fragment (may not be used with ports or tcpflags)\n" " in\n" " out\n" @@ -1185,6 +1207,32 @@ } while (ac) { + if (!strncmp(*av,"uid",strlen(*av))) { + struct passwd *pwd; + + rule.fw_flg |= IP_FW_F_UID; + ac--; av++; + if (!ac) + show_usage("``uid'' requires argument"); + + rule.fw_uid = (pwd = getpwnam(*av)) ? pwd->pw_uid + : strtoul(*av, NULL, 0); + ac--; av++; + continue; + } + if (!strncmp(*av,"gid",strlen(*av))) { + struct group *grp; + + rule.fw_flg |= IP_FW_F_GID; + ac--; av++; + if (!ac) + show_usage("``gid'' requires argument"); + + rule.fw_gid = (grp = getgrnam(*av)) ? (gid_t)grp->gr_gid + : strtoul(*av, NULL, 0); + ac--; av++; + continue; + } if (!strncmp(*av,"in",strlen(*av))) { rule.fw_flg |= IP_FW_F_IN; av++; ac--; continue; --- src/sys/sys/socketvar.h.orig Tue Apr 20 23:27:58 1999 +++ src/sys/sys/socketvar.h Tue Apr 20 23:27:15 1999 @@ -109,6 +109,7 @@ /* NB: generation count must not be first; easiest to make it last. */ so_gen_t so_gencnt; /* generation count */ void *so_emuldata; /* private data for emulators */ + struct pcred *so_cred; /* user credentials */ }; /* --- uipc_socket.c.orig Fri May 28 17:19:58 1999 +++ uipc_socket.c Sat May 29 01:12:43 1999 @@ -36,13 +36,14 @@ #include #include -#include #include #include #include #include #include +#include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -124,8 +125,11 @@ TAILQ_INIT(&so->so_incomp); TAILQ_INIT(&so->so_comp); so->so_type = type; - if (p != 0) - so->so_uid = p->p_ucred->cr_uid; + if (p) { + so->so_cred = p->p_cred; + so->so_cred->p_refcnt++; + so->so_uid = so->so_cred->pc_ucred->cr_uid; + } else so->so_cred = NULL; so->so_proto = prp; error = (*prp->pr_usrreqs->pru_attach)(so, proto, p); if (error) { @@ -156,6 +160,10 @@ struct socket *so; { so->so_gencnt = ++so_gencnt; + if (so->so_cred && --so->so_cred->p_refcnt == 0) { + crfree(so->so_cred->pc_ucred); + FREE(so->so_cred, M_SUBPROC); + } zfreei(so->so_zone, so); } --- uipc_socket2.c.orig Fri May 28 17:19:58 1999 +++ uipc_socket2.c Sat May 29 00:57:56 1999 @@ -214,6 +214,9 @@ so->so_proto = head->so_proto; so->so_timeo = head->so_timeo; so->so_uid = head->so_uid; + so->so_cred = head->so_cred; + if (so->so_cred) + so->so_cred->p_refcnt++; (void) soreserve(so, head->so_snd.sb_hiwat, head->so_rcv.sb_hiwat); if ((*so->so_proto->pr_usrreqs->pru_attach)(so, 0, NULL)) { --- src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.c.orig Tue Apr 20 10:29:59 1999 +++ src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.c Wed Apr 21 00:20:50 1999 @@ -34,18 +34,21 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include #include #include +#include #include +#include #include #include +#include #include #include #include #include #ifdef DUMMYNET -#include #include #endif #include @@ -53,6 +56,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include /* XXX ethertype_ip */ @@ -608,13 +612,14 @@ if (f->fw_ipopt != f->fw_ipnopt && !ipopts_match(ip, f)) continue; - /* Check protocol; if wildcard, match */ - if (f->fw_prot == IPPROTO_IP) - goto got_match; - - /* If different, don't match */ - if (ip->ip_p != f->fw_prot) - continue; + /* Check protocol; if wildcard, and no uid, match */ + if (f->fw_prot == IPPROTO_IP) { + if (!(f->fw_flg & (IP_FW_F_UID|IP_FW_F_GID))) + goto got_match; + } else + /* If different, don't match */ + if (ip->ip_p != f->fw_prot) + continue; /* * here, pip==NULL for bridged pkts -- they include the ethernet @@ -634,6 +639,88 @@ } \ } while (0) + /* Protocol specific checks for uid only */ + if (f->fw_flg & (IP_FW_F_UID|IP_FW_F_GID)) { + switch (ip->ip_p) { + case IPPROTO_TCP: + { + struct tcphdr *tcp; + struct inpcb *P; + + if (offset == 1) /* cf. RFC 1858 */ + goto bogusfrag; + if (offset != 0) + continue; + + PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14); + tcp =(struct tcphdr *)((u_int32_t *)ip + ip->ip_hl); + + if (oif) + P = in_pcblookup_hash(&tcbinfo, ip->ip_dst, + tcp->th_dport, ip->ip_src, tcp->th_sport, 0); + else + P = in_pcblookup_hash(&tcbinfo, ip->ip_src, + tcp->th_sport, ip->ip_dst, tcp->th_dport, 0); + + if (P && P->inp_socket && P->inp_socket->so_cred) { + if ((f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_UID) && + P->inp_socket->so_cred->p_ruid != f->fw_uid) + continue; + if ((f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_GID) && + !groupmember(f->fw_gid, + P->inp_socket->so_cred->pc_ucred)) + continue; + } else continue; + + break; + } + + case IPPROTO_UDP: + { + struct udphdr *udp; + struct inpcb *P; + + if (offset != 0) + continue; + + PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4); + udp =(struct udphdr *)((u_int32_t *)ip + ip->ip_hl); + + if (oif) + P = in_pcblookup_hash(&udbinfo, ip->ip_dst, + udp->uh_dport, ip->ip_src, udp->uh_sport, 1); + else + P = in_pcblookup_hash(&udbinfo, ip->ip_src, + udp->uh_sport, ip->ip_dst, udp->uh_dport, 1); + + if (P && P->inp_socket && P->inp_socket->so_cred) { + if ((f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_UID) && + P->inp_socket->so_cred->p_ruid != f->fw_uid) + continue; + if ((f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_GID) && + !groupmember(f->fw_gid, + P->inp_socket->so_cred->pc_ucred)) + continue; + } else continue; + + break; + } + + default: + continue; +/* + * XXX Shouldn't GCC be allowing two bogusfrag labels if they're both inside + * separate blocks? Hmm.... It seems it's got incorrect behavior here. + */ +#if 0 +bogusfrag: + if (fw_verbose) + ipfw_report(NULL, ip, rif, oif); + goto dropit; +#endif + } + } + /* Protocol specific checks */ switch (ip->ip_p) { case IPPROTO_TCP: @@ -654,7 +741,8 @@ break; } - PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14); + if (!(f->fw_flg & (IP_FW_F_UID|IP_FW_F_GID))) + PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14); tcp = (struct tcphdr *) ((u_int32_t *)ip + ip->ip_hl); if (f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf && !tcpflg_match(tcp, f)) continue; @@ -673,12 +761,13 @@ * rule specifies a port, we consider the rule * a non-match. */ - if (f->fw_nports != 0) + if (f->fw_nports) continue; break; } - PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4); + if (!(f->fw_flg & (IP_FW_F_UID|IP_FW_F_GID))) + PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4); udp = (struct udphdr *) ((u_int32_t *)ip + ip->ip_hl); src_port = ntohs(udp->uh_sport); dst_port = ntohs(udp->uh_dport); @@ -1121,6 +1210,8 @@ #ifdef IPFIREWALL_FORWARD case IP_FW_F_FWD: #endif + case IP_FW_F_UID: + case IP_FW_F_GID: break; default: dprintf(("%s invalid command\n", err_prefix)); --- src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h.orig Tue Apr 20 09:32:05 1999 +++ src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h Wed Apr 21 01:02:58 1999 @@ -81,6 +81,8 @@ /* count of 0 means match all ports) */ void *pipe_ptr; /* Pipe ptr in case of dummynet pipe */ void *next_rule_ptr ; /* next rule in case of match */ + uid_t fw_uid; /* uid to match */ + gid_t fw_gid; /* gid to match */ }; #define IP_FW_GETNSRCP(rule) ((rule)->fw_nports & 0x0f) @@ -144,7 +146,11 @@ #define IP_FW_F_ICMPBIT 0x00100000 /* ICMP type bitmap is valid */ -#define IP_FW_F_MASK 0x001FFFFF /* All possible flag bits mask */ +#define IP_FW_F_UID 0x00200000 /* filter by uid */ + +#define IP_FW_F_GID 0x00400000 /* filter by uid */ + +#define IP_FW_F_MASK 0x007FFFFF /* All possible flag bits mask */ /* * For backwards compatibility with rules specifying "via iface" but --- src/sys/netinet/udp_var.h.orig Sun Apr 4 22:47:21 1999 +++ src/sys/netinet/udp_var.h Sun Apr 4 22:50:44 1999 @@ -103,6 +103,7 @@ SYSCTL_DECL(_net_inet_udp); extern struct pr_usrreqs udp_usrreqs; +extern struct inpcbinfo udbinfo; void udp_ctlinput __P((int, struct sockaddr *, void *)); void udp_init __P((void)); --- src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c.orig Sun Apr 4 22:51:26 1999 +++ src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c Sun Apr 4 22:51:31 1999 @@ -78,7 +78,7 @@ &log_in_vain, 0, ""); static struct inpcbhead udb; /* from udp_var.h */ -static struct inpcbinfo udbinfo; +struct inpcbinfo udbinfo; #ifndef UDBHASHSIZE #define UDBHASHSIZE 16 --- src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.8.orig Fri Apr 23 22:26:55 1999 +++ src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.8 Fri Apr 23 22:37:04 1999 @@ -258,6 +258,18 @@ The search continues with the first rule numbered .Ar number or higher. +.It Ar uid user +Match all TCP or UDP packets sent by or received for a +.Ar user . +A +.Ar user +may be matched by name or identification number. +.It Ar gid group +Match all TCP or UDP packets sent by or received for a +.Ar group . +A +.Ar group +may be matched by name or identification number. .El .Pp If a packet matches more than one To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 22:26:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A494214EAF for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 22:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA77959; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 01:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Don Lewis , Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) In-Reply-To: <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29 May 1999, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > You might try unmounting the filesystem and doing > > tunefs -o space /dev/rawdevice > > (which can also be done at newfs time). You may find that the > > performance, especially write performance, isn't too good. > > I've been looking over FS performance tuning, trying to get my > compiles to go a bit quicker, and started wondering a few things. > > As we all know, tunefs -o space will hurt write performance. Will it > hurt read performance? If I don't care about install-time speed, but > do care about run-time speed and free space, should I populate my > filesystems at install time with space tuning? It /might/ even make it faster to read. Don't shoot me if this isn't the case! > > Is it possible to, on a restore, place down the directory tree with > dummy entries for regular files, so you don't get a split-up directory > when you populate it? I know that mtree'ing the fs ahead of time > helps (and assume that mtree is breadth-first), but I don't recall any > of our utilities that do a breadth-first restore by default. I don't > even see a utility to prepare a file list for tar in a breadth-first > manner; thoughts? > > About a year ago, I heard discussions about the usefulness of tunefs. > Our OS has undergone lots and lots o' changes since then (unified > VM/buffer cache, CAM, etc). newfs documents that rotdelay is useless, > but what about maxcontig? > > About five minutes ago, I realized that one problem is that I recently > installed a new disk, and forgot to enable softupdates on it (doh!). > From the little I know, I don't quite understand why softupdates is a > tunefs parameter, instead of a mount flag. Can a fs with softupdates > turned on in the superblock work on a non-softupdates kernel without > trouble? If so, would it be a good idea to have newfs turn it on by > default? I don't think it should be turned on by default, since legacy fsck code cannot handle SoftUpdates inconsistencies anywhere nearly as well as Kirk's rewrite does it all. It's a mount flag (as I understand it) so that utilities can find out if the FS was running SoftUpdates in the case of a crash. The flag is harmless to an old kernel, which would just ignore it. > > Does bad144 have any space or time overhead? Can it be disabled? I'm pretty sure bad144 doesn't even apply to current disks. > > How do people like to set up their filesystems these days? I've heard > of people who like one big fs (not generally usable anymore because of > the 1024 cyl limit), others who like the small root fs and one big fs > for everything else, and some who like separate fs's for different > things. All other things (disk speed, etc) being equal, what's this > groups' opinion? My opinion (for a simple user box) is to separate into smaller, maintainable / /tmp /var, and large /usr and /home (etc etc). > > Huzzah! to Dyson et al for making our VM system self-tuning. Any > thoughts about hints to give it? > > Thanks, > joelh > > -- > Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org > Fourth law of programming: > Anything that can go wrong wi > sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 22:40:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AA5514BEA for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 22:40:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA28719; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:40:12 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 01:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905281819.OAA08540@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 28, 99 01:15:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1908 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Dennis had to walk into mine and say: > I dunno what it is, but we've had customers experiencing packet loss at > high usage on 100Mb's nets...and the problem goes away when replacing them > with intels. I dont know the details. Then *FIND THEM OUT*! Replacing the cards does not fix the problem! How is anybody supposed to be able to help you if a) you never tell anybody about the trouble, b) you destroy the test configuration where the problem occurs, thereby assuring that nobody will be able to duplicate it again, and c) you don't even lift a finger to investigate! This is ridiculous! People ask me to fix stuff, they expect the world! You ask them what's going on, they don't know the details! That's just wonderful! You know, I should use that myself! "Hey Bill: my network crashed." "Well, there's probably something you could do to fix that but I don't know the details." Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop short of actually providing any useful information! Then everyone else will go insane instead of me, society will collapse, and I can take over the world while everyone's distracted! You know if they ever find a way to harness sarcasm as an energy source, you people are all going to owe me big. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 23:10:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628FB15589 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 23:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.13) with ESMTP id SAA04805; Sat, 29 May 1999 18:10:26 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA34704; Sat, 29 May 1999 18:10:25 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 18:10:25 +1200 From: Joe Abley To: Brian Somers Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Sheldon Hearn , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: fetch(1) / fetch(3) patchkit available Message-ID: <19990529181025.A34626@clear.co.nz> References: <199905281027.LAA03381@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905281027.LAA03381@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Fri, May 28, 1999 at 11:27:20AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 28, 1999 at 11:27:20AM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > What about a non-interactive command for pushing stuff via ftp/http ? > This has always been lacking IMHO (``ftp -n < gotchas). > > I haven't actually looked at libfetch, but I would think that the > functionality should be there. If we're throwing in the kitchen sink, then the ability to do a POST via HTTP would also be really useful. Every second device I throw into the network comes with a lovely-looking web interface that is a pain to retrieve stats from automagically. Being able to do this with a fetch would be marvelous ;) Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 28 23:14:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1FE151F6 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 23:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@mail.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mail.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA34168; Sat, 29 May 1999 16:16:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199905290616.QAA34168@mail.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from Bill Paul at "May 29, 1999 1:40: 9 am" To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 16:16:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Bill Paul ]--------------------------------------------- | | but I don't know the details." Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help | people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop | short of actually providing any useful information! Then everyone else Be careful Bill, or they'll make you a Business Analyst. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 0:31:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBEC14D8A for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18887; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Bill Paul Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 01:40:09 EDT." <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 00:31:38 -0700 Message-ID: <18883.927963098@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > wonderful! You know, I should use that myself! "Hey Bill: my network > crashed." "Well, there's probably something you could do to fix that > but I don't know the details." Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help > people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop You have a very promising career as a consultant ahead of you, Bill. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 1:46:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4CA1539B for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA29926; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:46:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 01:46:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905290846.BAA29926@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A friend of mine upgraded one of his machines to a duel-cpu box and upgraded the OS to -STABLE, and he noticed that his backups were being corrupted. The corruption appears to occur when he transfers huge gzip'd tar files over a 100BaseTX network: rsh remote -n "cat remotefile" > localfile ssh remote -n "cat remotefile" > localfile rcp remote:remotefile localfile scp remote:remotefile localfile The remotefile in this case is a huge 192MB gzip'd tar file. Portions of the file get corrupted - generally the corruption consists of a small sequence of 8 or so bytes at a random offset in the file being repeated twice, destroying data that should have been sent instead. The corrupted file winds up being the same size as the original file, but with occassional repeating patterns. Through experimentation we determined that it was NOT the TCP connection, programs run, or filesystem that are introducing the corrupted data. I believe that the problem is situated in the pipe device driver. It should also be noted that one of my friend's machines is a duel-cpu machine. Both are running FreeBSD-STABLE. If I replace the "cat" in the rsh/ssh with a "dd bs=4k", the corruption goes away. I think the problem is occuring on the duel-cpu machine by creating a window of opportunity due to the way processes are scheduled that is not being protected by the pipe device. I seem to recall that the pipe device tries to optimize certain situations when a reader is blocked waiting for input. This code is my primary suspect at the moment. We are attempting to reproduce the problem with a smaller dataset, but if anyone is hot on the pipe code in the kernel and can give it a once-over we may be able to find the bug more quickly. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 3:21:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AAC14FEE for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:21:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id LAA65498; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:21:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:13:00 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> References: <199905281819.OAA08540@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 28, 99 01:15:41 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 11:12:57 +0000 To: Bill Paul From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:40 am -0400 29/5/99, Bill Paul wrote: >[...] Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help >people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop >short of actually providing any useful information! Then everyone else >will go insane instead of me, society will collapse, and I can take over >the world while everyone's distracted! Methinks someone's been reading too much Dilbert. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 3:58: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED3B14C44 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26110 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:58:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 11:58:41 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PNP card info needed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially soundcards which currently work with FreeBSD (or which used to work prior to the new-bus merge) please send me the output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all the device ids for the new-bus isapnp code. Thanks in advance. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 4: 0: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AFDDD14C44 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA15036; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:33:57 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905290833.KAA15036@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) To: green@unixhelp.org (Brian Feldman) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:33:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Feldman" at May 29, 99 01:20:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1218 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd like to propose a change in struct socket, which should increase its > functionality. It should first be noted that, along with my IPFW UID/GID > code (which would be nice to have merged into HEAD too, and if I must, I'll > clean up the ugly switch part), I included this change. Implementation time > would be nil, as would testing. no objection on the struct socket change (but i just wonder, if there are side effects in changing the struct socket, perhaps one might put the same parameter in the struct tcpcb/udpcb/inpcb ? after all it is being used by ipfw only). On the ipfw side, yes i think the switch to locate & check credential can be simplified by merging the final part (and perhaps even the in_pcblookup() calls). cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 4:12:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D6EDF15273 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA15066; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:46:27 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905290846.KAA15066@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PNP card info needed To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:46:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at May 29, 99 11:58:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1321 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially soundcards which > currently work with FreeBSD (or which used to work prior to the new-bus > merge) please send me the output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all > the device ids for the new-bus isapnp code. I have put the ones i have online at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/pnpinfo/ these are at the moment cs4232, cs4236b, cs4237 (which seems to report same data as the cs4236b), opti931 (and i have an opti933 buried somewhere but again i cannot tell because it produces the same pnpinfo as the 931 :( In my junkbox i also have some ES1868, GusPnP, Vibra16C, Vibra16X but i need to physically install them on a machine to send you the numbers you want. And at the moment... saturday afternoon, temperature 30'C, sunny wheather... I think i am heading for the beach! cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 4:18:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D977D14C44 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:18:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip176.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.176]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578E637013; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21075; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:18:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 06:18:35 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Doug Rabson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PNP card info needed Message-ID: <19990529061835.B5483@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Sat, May 29, 1999 at 11:58:41AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 29, 1999, Doug Rabson wrote: > Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially soundcards which > currently work with FreeBSD (or which used to work prior to the new-bus > merge) please send me the output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all > the device ids for the new-bus isapnp code. To discourage bandwidth waste, I've put mine up at http://www.calldei.com/~chris/pnpinfo.txt. -- Chris Costello Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 4:34:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6E615056 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA25901; Sat, 29 May 1999 21:34:15 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 21:34:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199905291134.VAA25901@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, mboers@datacompusa.com Subject: Re: Multiproc kernel 3.1-Release & Cyclades Cyclom 8Yep PCI Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I commented out the SMP and FAST code, rebuilt the kernel from scratch and >the panic still occurs. Is there other code that should be disabled? Is >this fixed in 3.2? Why are there evil macro's in my computer? Why am I >asking so many questions? I committed a proper fix in /sys/i386/isa/cy.c: rev.1.88 (-current) rev.1.83.2.1 (-stable) This is not in 3.2. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 5:55:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB62A14FC5 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id KAA80497; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:54:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:54:21 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Don Lewis , Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) Message-ID: <19990529105420.A78812@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:03:54AM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 29, 1999 at 12:03:54AM -0500, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > How do people like to set up their filesystems these days? I've heard > of people who like one big fs (not generally usable anymore because of > the 1024 cyl limit), others who like the small root fs and one big fs > for everything else, and some who like separate fs's for different > things. All other things (disk speed, etc) being equal, what's this > groups' opinion? Depends on the disk size. My FreeBSD box has 2 disks at the moment, 1 x 2GB and 1 x 4GB. They're set up as follows (da0 = 2GB, da1 = 4GB) da0s1a / 50MB da0s1e /var 50MB da0s1f /usr 200MB da0s1g /local/0 1700MB da1s1a /local/1 4000MB /local/* is my mount point for disks in general. The first disk is a special case, as it has three 'special' filesystems on it (/, /var, /usr). I sized these based on general expectations on what the box would be doing, and in the knowledge that they would be fairly static. A look in /var shows; tmp@ -> /local/1/var/tmp A look in /usr shows; X11R6@ -> /local/0/usr/X11R6 local -> /local/1/usr/local obj -> /local/1/usr/obj ports -> /local/0/usr/ports src -> /local/0/usr/src A look in /home shows; ncvs -> /local/1/home/ncvs nik -> /local/1/home/nik operator -> /local/1/home/operator These are all directories that are going to grow in size over the lifetime of the box. So making them filesystems in the BSD sense is foolish, as you end up having to either resize the filesystems (which is a pain) or start symlinking between two or more filesystems. This approach makes it very easy to put different directory trees on different disks -- when I had one disk, /usr/src and /usr/obj were on the same disk, putting one of them on to the second disk was a snap. It's also pretty easy to automate. A script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d runs This is a slightly simplified version of an approach used at my current employer, where they have systems that often have 15 or more disks attached. And instead of using symlinks they use AMD to NFS mount the directories in the right place. But the basic principle is the same, and it scales very well. N -- The trial continues tomorrow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 7:20: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2952414BD8 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA88226; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:19:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@root.com Subject: Re: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) In-Reply-To: <199905290833.KAA15036@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I'd like to propose a change in struct socket, which should increase its > > functionality. It should first be noted that, along with my IPFW UID/GID > > code (which would be nice to have merged into HEAD too, and if I must, I'll > > clean up the ugly switch part), I included this change. Implementation time > > would be nil, as would testing. > > no objection on the struct socket change (but i just wonder, if there > are side effects in changing the struct socket, perhaps one might put > the same parameter in the struct tcpcb/udpcb/inpcb ? after all it is > being used by ipfw only). It's only truly associative with the socket itself, if you think about it. I'd like to see what David thinks about this change, since networking is seemingly 'his' where IPFW is 'yours'. > > On the ipfw side, yes i think the switch to locate & check credential > can be simplified by merging the final part (and perhaps even the > in_pcblookup() calls). Yes, I think I'll clean up ipfw :) Parts of it are due for a rewrite, as the code has grown unwieldly. > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 7:24:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC8015053 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA12351; Sat, 29 May 1999 16:24:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill Paul Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 May 1999 16:24:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Paul's message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 01:40:09 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Paul writes: > [...] Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help > people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop > short of actually providing any useful information! Then everyone else > will go insane instead of me, society will collapse, and I can take over > the world while everyone's distracted! Yes, Bill, we love you too :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 7:38:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C181E1542F for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA12366; Sat, 29 May 1999 16:38:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: Don Lewis , Graeme Tait , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, info@boatbooks.com Subject: Re: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 May 1999 16:38:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: Joel Ray Holveck's message of "29 May 1999 00:03:54 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 39 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joel Ray Holveck writes: > About five minutes ago, I realized that one problem is that I recently > installed a new disk, and forgot to enable softupdates on it (doh!). > From the little I know, I don't quite understand why softupdates is a > tunefs parameter, instead of a mount flag. You shouldn't switch back and forth between soft updates and normal operation in a single mount session. Mount flags let you do that. Anyway, all you're actually intersted in is knowing if a crashed file system was running with soft updates before the crash, because it eliminates the need for fsck (all you need to do is recover blocks which are incorrectly marked as allocated; this can be done in the background on a live file system - maybe even by the fs code itself?) Maybe the right thing would be a "soft updates bit" similar to the dirty bit. You set the SU bit upon mounting a file system with soft updates, and clear it otherwise. If the user tries to mount a dirty SU file system, you silently clear the dirty bit, mount the file system and recover lost blocks in the background. If the user tries to mount a dirty non-SU file system, you refuse as usual. > Can a fs with softupdates > turned on in the superblock work on a non-softupdates kernel without > trouble? Yes. I believe there might be a slight performance hit, but it shouldn't be too noticeable. > If so, would it be a good idea to have newfs turn it on by > default? No, I don't think there's much point in doing that before Kirk McKusick removes the restrictions on the soft updates code. When that happens, we can make soft updates non-optional and turn on soft updates on all file systems by default. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 9: 7:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salty.tortuga.com.au (tortug.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.74.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3061F14F8F for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ianh@tortuga.com.au) Received: from frabjous.tortuga.com.au (frabjous.tortuga.com.au [203.13.40.4]) by salty.tortuga.com.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA22576 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 02:07:34 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ianh@localhost) by frabjous.tortuga.com.au (8.9.2/8.8.5) id MAA23322 for Freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:40:14 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Holland Message-Id: <199905290240.MAA23322@frabjous.tortuga.com.au> Subject: NFS problems in 2.x -- fixed in 3.x? To: Freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:40:13 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In local.freebsd.hackers <199905262104.OAA09985@kithrup.com> you enscribed: > >>Yes, I was able to reproduce it. >> >>Client - FreeBSD 2.2.8-stable (PII-300Mhz) >> >>Server1 - Solaris 2.6 (UltraSparc 2) >>Server2 - FreeBSD 2.2.8 (P133 laptop) >> >>If I create a file on both servers as myself, size 0, mode 444, and >>attempt to append to them, it fails with 'permission denied'. >> >>If I mount both directories on my client box and attempt the same >>operation (using the same UID as on the servers), it fails on the >>Solaris exported directory but succeeds on the FreeBSD exported >>directory. >> I tried this with 3.1 (both server and client), and it appears to be fixed. frabjous% id uid=1001(ianh) ... frabjous% :>foo frabjous% chmod 444 foo frabjous% ls -l foo -r--r--r-- 1 ianh staff 0 May 29 12:29 foo slithy% id uid=1001(ianh) ... slithy% ls -l foo -r--r--r-- 1 ianh staff 0 May 29 12:29 foo slithy% df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on frabjous:/home 1296131 335001 857440 28% /home slithy% date >>foo bash: foo: Permission denied slithy% sh slithy% date >>foo cannot create foo: permission denied -- Ian Holland In a world without fences, ianh@tortuga.com.au Who needs Gates? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 9:22:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail4.aracnet.com (mail4.aracnet.com [205.159.88.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED6214E7B for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@aracnet.com) Received: from shell2.aracnet.com (IDENT:1728@shell2.aracnet.com [205.159.88.20] (may be forged)) by mail4.aracnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08177; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:22:42 -0700 Received: from localhost by shell2.aracnet.com (8.8.7) id JAA02248; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:22:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell2.aracnet.com: beattie owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:22:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: "Christopher R. Bowman" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Algorithm used to delete part of a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 May 1999, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > Thanks for your valuable information. This explains why I have not found > any routines in the files under /ufs/ffs and /ufs/ufs that re-organize the > on-disk image of a file in that way. If a middle part of a file is > deleted, then all the remaining part of the file must be read by an editor > (such as vi) and written out to another place before the file length is > truncated. This algorithm seems to be not very efficient. But disk is not > like memory, where we can simply modify pointers to point to new locations > easily, I guess there may be no better way to do this. If you have any > ideas about why this is not done by the filesystem itself, please let me > know. > Because deleting the middle of a file is an relatively uncommon operation. Text editing is in the overall operation of a system not the most common application. > Thanks for your help. > > Zhihui > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Beattie | The only problem with beattie@aracnet.com | winning the rat race ... www.aracnet.com/~beattie | in the end you're still a rat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 9:57:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.radio-do.de (trinity.Radio-do.de [193.101.164.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C851522E for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fn@trinity.radio-do.de) Received: (from fn@localhost) by trinity.radio-do.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA00726; Sat, 29 May 1999 18:57:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fn) To: Doug Rabson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PNP card info needed References: From: Frank Nobis Date: 29 May 1999 18:57:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: Doug Rabson's message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 11:58:41 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: Lines: 165 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070083 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.83) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Doug" == Doug Rabson writes: Doug> Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially Doug> soundcards which currently work with FreeBSD (or which used Doug> to work prior to the new-bus merge) please send me the Doug> output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all the device Doug> ids for the new-bus isapnp code. I hope you don't get to much information more than once :-) Here is my card info for my AWE64: Checking for Plug-n-Play devices... Card assigned CSN #1 Vendor ID CTL00e4 (0xe4008c0e), Serial Number 0x072f4692 PnP Version 1.0, Vendor Version 16 Device Description: Creative SB AWE64 PnP *** Small Vendor Tag Detected Logical Device ID: CTL0045 0x45008c0e #0 Device Description: Audio TAG Start DF Good Configuration IRQ: 5 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 1 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x220, alignment 0x1, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x330 .. 0x330, alignment 0x1, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Sub-optimal Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x10, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x394, alignment 0x4, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CTL7002 0x02708c0e #1 Compatible Device ID: PNPb02f (2fb0d041) Device Description: Game TAG Start DF Good Configuration I/O Range 0x200 .. 0x200, alignment 0x1, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration I/O Range 0x200 .. 0x208, alignment 0x8, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CTL0022 0x22008c0e #2 Device Description: WaveTable TAG Start DF Good Configuration I/O Range 0x620 .. 0x620, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration I/O Range 0x620 .. 0x680, alignment 0x20, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF *** Small Vendor Tag Detected End Tag Successfully got 69 resources, 3 logical fdevs -- card select # 0x0001 CSN CTL00e4 (0xe4008c0e), Serial Number 0x072f4692 Logical device #0 IO: 0x0220 0x0330 0x0388 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 5 0 DMA 1 5 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #1 IO: 0x0200 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x00 Logical device #2 IO: 0x0620 0x0a20 0x0e20 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 -- Frank Nobis Email: PGP AVAILABLE Landgrafenstr. 130 dg3dcn http://www.radio-do.de/~fn/ 44139 Dortmund Powered by SMP FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 10:12:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE09D14EC5 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA13802; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905291712.NAA13802@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:08:55 -0400 To: Bill Paul From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905290540.BAA28719@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> References: <199905281819.OAA08540@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:40 AM 5/29/99 -0400, you wrote: >Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Dennis had to >walk into mine and say: > >> I dunno what it is, but we've had customers experiencing packet loss at >> high usage on 100Mb's nets...and the problem goes away when replacing them >> with intels. I dont know the details. > >Then *FIND THEM OUT*! Replacing the cards does not fix the problem! How >is anybody supposed to be able to help you if a) you never tell anybody >about the trouble, b) you destroy the test configuration where the problem >occurs, thereby assuring that nobody will be able to duplicate it again, >and c) you don't even lift a finger to investigate! I dont want help, I recommended Intel cards, the customer used 3coms because "someone told them they were good cards", they had problems, and I said "I told you so". Im just relaying the info..if I had REAL info as the what the problem was I would have told you, but commercial sites are not the place to be debugging problems. I have no stake in 3com cards (they are problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my problem. Not that I wouldnt like to help, but when I have a company president calling me to complain that the box is going down Im in no position to say "stick with the 3com cards, they'll have them running soon." Its the way it is. You need to find beta test sights (gee, columbia might be a good one, huh?) to do testing. Commercial sites are no place for such things. I used to recommend DEC cards, and now the driver sucks, so I dont. I recommend DEC or Intel in LINUX, because they work best. I dont care what they use, and Im not concerned about the 35 drivers that have problems under load. I cant be. I dont have time, and what's the difference? All cards have the same functionality. > >This is ridiculous! People ask me to fix stuff, they expect the world! >You ask them what's going on, they don't know the details! That's just >wonderful! You know, I should use that myself! "Hey Bill: my network >crashed." "Well, there's probably something you could do to fix that >but I don't know the details." Yes! I like it! Instead of trying to help >people, I'll be maddeningly vague! I'll pretend to be helpful but stop >short of actually providing any useful information! Then everyone else >will go insane instead of me, society will collapse, and I can take over >the world while everyone's distracted! > >You know if they ever find a way to harness sarcasm as an energy source, >you people are all going to owe me big. hey, you want to be famous, you gotta take some punches. When my drivers have bugs, I take it on the chin. Part of the developer experience. :-) Dennis Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com ISA and PCI T1/T3/V35/HSSI Cards for FreeBSD and LINUX HSSI/T3 UNIX-based Routers Bandwidth Manager http://www.etinc.com/bwmgr.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 10:27:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7723E15047 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA33709; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:27:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905291727.KAA33709@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. References: <199905290846.BAA29926@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here is a diff of one example of the corruption that is occuring which I believe to be a bug in the pipe device. This diff is out of a multi-hundred-megabyte file: staid# diff t3.cuthex t4.cuthex 86c86 < 00000550 f7 7e f4 05 48 2f 28 ef 1f 9b b6 49 5d 76 f5 13 |.~..H/(....I]v..| --- > 00000550 f7 7e f4 05 48 2f 28 ef f7 7e f4 05 48 2f 28 ef |.~..H/(..~..H/(.| -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 10:30:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E7F15242 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10nmwH-0008KY-0K; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:30:29 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10ni5Q-00014y-00; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:19:37 +0100 Content-Length: 1489 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 13:19:36 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: Zhihui Zhang Subject: Re: Algorithm used to delete part of a file Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Christopher R.Bowman Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29-May-99 Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > Thanks for your valuable information. This explains why I have not found > any routines in the files under /ufs/ffs and /ufs/ufs that re-organize the > on-disk image of a file in that way. If a middle part of a file is > deleted, then all the remaining part of the file must be read by an editor > (such as vi) and written out to another place before the file length is > truncated. This algorithm seems to be not very efficient. But disk is not > like memory, where we can simply modify pointers to point to new locations > easily, I guess there may be no better way to do this. If you have any > ideas about why this is not done by the filesystem itself, please let me > know. Primarily the file system is a "block" orientated storage media where a "block" is the fragment size or a file system block. Addressing in the filesystem is done on a block by block basis. As each block is a number of bytes we cannot use byte addressing to simply move pointers around. If you find the papers written by Rob Pike on the editor "Sam" undr Plan-9 he goes into a lot of detail about algorithms for removing/adding bytes into a storage area with block addressing. Duncan -- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 11:28:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A57CB14EA7 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13211; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:17:39 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 14:17:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Duncan Barclay Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Christopher R.Bowman" Subject: Re: Algorithm used to delete part of a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 May 1999, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Primarily the file system is a "block" orientated storage media where a "block" > is the fragment size or a file system block. Addressing in the filesystem is > done on a block by block basis. As each block is a number of bytes we cannot > use byte addressing to simply move pointers around. > > If you find the papers written by Rob Pike on the editor "Sam" undr Plan-9 he > goes into a lot of detail about algorithms for removing/adding bytes into a > storage area with block addressing. > Thanks. I have found a paper named "the text editor sam" by Rob Pike in 1987 at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/papers.html. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 11:58:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF04F14C97 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA15579; Sat, 29 May 1999 18:32:35 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905291632.SAA15579@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) To: green@unixhelp.org (Brian Feldman) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 18:32:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@root.com In-Reply-To: from "Brian Feldman" at May 29, 99 10:19:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1244 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It's only truly associative with the socket itself, if you think about it. I'd like to see > what David thinks about this change, since networking is seemingly 'his' where IPFW is > 'yours'. nothing is mine, and certainly not IPFW -- i merely added the dummynet hooks! > > On the ipfw side, yes i think the switch to locate & check credential > > can be simplified by merging the final part (and perhaps even the > > in_pcblookup() calls). > > Yes, I think I'll clean up ipfw :) Parts of it are due for a rewrite, as the code has grown > unwieldly. correct. however, with rules being so "complex" (lots of things you can specify in a rule) the kernel part cannot be simplified a lot. The userland code, on the other hand, would really deserve some cleanup! cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 12:26:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA6B14C97 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA92887; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@root.com Subject: Re: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) In-Reply-To: <199905291632.SAA15579@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > It's only truly associative with the socket itself, if you think about it. I'd like to see > > what David thinks about this change, since networking is seemingly 'his' where IPFW is > > 'yours'. > > nothing is mine, and certainly not IPFW -- i merely added the dummynet > hooks! Your sound drivers (and PnP too, right?) are both yours; and you seem to be the big IPFW maintainer right about now. > > > > On the ipfw side, yes i think the switch to locate & check credential > > > can be simplified by merging the final part (and perhaps even the > > > in_pcblookup() calls). > > > > Yes, I think I'll clean up ipfw :) Parts of it are due for a rewrite, as the code has grown > > unwieldly. > > correct. however, with rules being so "complex" (lots of things you can > specify in a rule) the kernel part cannot be simplified a lot. The > userland code, on the other hand, would really deserve some cleanup! It cannot be simplified a lot, but it can definitely be cleaned up, reorganized, and optimized. ipfw.c itself is REALLY gross to try to use, and maybe it's due for a rewrite too. > > cheers > luigi > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 12:28:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E08E14C97 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: (from aron@localhost) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA15760; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:28:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Message-Id: <199905291928.OAA15760@cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: symorder for FreeBSD-3.x To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 14:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at May 29, 99 03:14:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > COFF? FreeBSD never supported COFF, to the best of my knowledge. > Sorry, should've said a.out. > You might want to take a look at objcopy(1). > I was interested in functionality given by 'symorder -c' that can localize all function and data definitions in an object file. objcopy() does have a '-L' option that can do this on a per symbol basis, but there seems to be no way of localizing all the symbols (barring the cumbersome specification of all global symbols using -L to objcopy). I was looking for the above functionality for localizing symbol definitions in kernel modules so that they don't conflict with the default kernel. For example, if loading an alternate network stack as a module, several global definitions can conflict with those in the kernel (e.g. tcp_input(), ...). However, I discovered that kldload doesn't care about such conflicts and simply goes ahead and loads the module anyway even if there are conflicting symbol definitions in the module (the lkm modload used to complain about this). I don't know whether this is an elf feature or a bug. Can someone clarify ? - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 12:49:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC21715438 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02910 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:49:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:49:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: AMD PCnet - Home (AM79C978KC) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forwarding this on to -hackers since -questions didn't seem to solicit much response. I've picked up two of the cards, but don't have the technical documentation for them so the best i can do is add them to the list of cards in the driver and have them probed appropriately. I'm in the process of searching the AMD site for the documentation but haven't found it yet--any pointers would be great (or alternatively, just code :) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:38:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson Reply-To: Robert Watson To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: AMD PCnet - Home (AM79C978KC) I recently heard about the "Diamond HomeFree" network cards that provide an ethernet interface running on a traditional in-home phone system. They supposedly situation an ethernet-style layer in one of the free frequency ranges, and make use of an AMD chip to do this (mentioned in title). I note that we have an AMD drive that, according to the 3.2 release notes, supports 'AMD PCnet/PCI (79c970 & 53c974 or 79c974)'. These numbers are pretty similar -- does anyone know if the driver supports this card? If not, anyone have information on whom I might contact at AMD to get specs to modify our driver to support it (I assume that it probably has a prety similar interface). The AMD chip is the only one, pretty much, on the PCI card so I assume it's the only relevant component. I head in this direction as I just discovered the wall I planned to drop UTP down to get to our ADSL modem in the basement is not going to be happy holding cables :-), and there are existing phone lines all over the place. The propaganda on the back says it can handle up to a megabit, which is pretty decent; the bumf also claims it coexists happily with existing phone service and xDSL at the same time. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 13:44:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D571214BD4 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.cc) Received: from spawn.nectar.cc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CAEB741; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:43:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: mlist/freebsd/hackers X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.cc/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine To: Joel Ray Holveck Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Subject: Re: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:43:55 -0500 Message-Id: <19990529204356.F2CAEB741@spawn.nectar.cc> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29 May 1999 at 0:03, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: [snip] > How do people like to set up their filesystems these days? I've heard > of people who like one big fs (not generally usable anymore because of > the 1024 cyl limit), others who like the small root fs and one big fs > for everything else, and some who like separate fs's for different > things. All other things (disk speed, etc) being equal, what's this > groups' opinion? [snip] My $0.02... For the past few months, I've been going crazy with vinum. I have 4 x 9GB storage on my workstation, and I use vinum for everything but /, /var, and /usr. I have about a dozen small (< 650Mb) filesystems, and I often create scratch filesystems for special purposes (such as rolling a release). I like having a lot of small filesystems... I can tune or export them individually, and they are easy to dump incrementally or reorganize. I also make sure that any one of them could fit on a single CD-ROM in case I decide to make an archive of some of them. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.cc / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 13:52:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587FE14BEA for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:52:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00908; Sat, 29 May 1999 21:43:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rjs) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 21:43:53 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199905292043.VAA00908@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: robert@cyrus.watson.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Robert Watson on Sat, 29 May 1999 15:49:09 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: AMD PCnet - Home (AM79C978KC) (fwd) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I recently heard about the "Diamond HomeFree" network cards that provide >an ethernet interface running on a traditional in-home phone system. They >supposedly situation an ethernet-style layer in one of the free frequency >ranges, and make use of an AMD chip to do this (mentioned in title). I >note that we have an AMD drive that, according to the 3.2 release notes, >supports 'AMD PCnet/PCI (79c970 & 53c974 or 79c974)'. These numbers are >pretty similar -- does anyone know if the driver supports this card? If >not, anyone have information on whom I might contact at AMD to get specs >to modify our driver to support it (I assume that it probably has a prety >similar interface). The AMD chip is the only one, pretty much, on the PCI >card so I assume it's the only relevant component. The data sheet is available on AMD's web site. Try http://www.amd.com/products/npd/techdocs/22206.pdf >I head in this direction as I just discovered the wall I planned to drop >UTP down to get to our ADSL modem in the basement is not going to be happy >holding cables :-), and there are existing phone lines all over the place. >The propaganda on the back says it can handle up to a megabit, which is >pretty decent; the bumf also claims it coexists happily with existing >phone service and xDSL at the same time. Robert Swindells ------------------------------------- Robert Swindells - GenRad Ltd rjs@genrad.co.uk - Work rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk - Home To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 14:20:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4161614C42 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@sd5.mailbank.com) Received: (qmail 18304 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 21:20:19 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 21:20:19 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA84464; Sat, 29 May 1999 16:20:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199905292120.QAA84464@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. In-Reply-To: <199905290846.BAA29926@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "May 29, 99 01:46:44 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 16:20:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > We are attempting to reproduce the problem with a smaller dataset, but > if anyone is hot on the pipe code in the kernel and can give it a once-over > we may be able to find the bug more quickly. > After a quick code inspection (and I really don't remember the details much anymore), it seems that there is a possibility for parts of the state of a pipe to be grabbed before certain locking operations (e.g. pipelock), and that state might change. This could be worse in a multi-writer or multi-reader situation. Just a hint. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 14:59:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C94D714C31 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA01509; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:59:33 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905292159.RAA01509@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905291712.NAA13802@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 29, 99 12:08:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4907 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Dennis had to walk into mine and say: > >Then *FIND THEM OUT*! Replacing the cards does not fix the problem! How > >is anybody supposed to be able to help you if a) you never tell anybody > >about the trouble, b) you destroy the test configuration where the problem > >occurs, thereby assuring that nobody will be able to duplicate it again, > >and c) you don't even lift a finger to investigate! > > I dont want help, That's too bad because you really need it! > I recommended Intel cards, the customer used 3coms > because "someone told them they were good cards", they had problems, and I > said "I told you so". Im just relaying the info..if I had REAL info as the > what the problem was I would have told you, but commercial sites are not > the place to be debugging problems. They are the *perfect* place to be debugging problems! Who do you think causes most of them!? And just what kind of information did you think you were relaying? Couldn't you be bothered to invest a few seconds to at least find out what version of FreeBSD they had? > I have no stake in 3com cards (they are > problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my > problem. It *is* your problem. Supposing you can't get Intel cards anymore. Then what're you going to do. > Not that I wouldnt like to help, but when I have a company president > calling me to complain that the box is going down Im in no position to say > "stick with the 3com cards, they'll have them running soon." Its the way > it is. No, that's not the way it is. You can't play musical hardware forever. Sooner or later you're going to run into a situation where you won't have another hardware option, and then your company president is going to find out just how useless you are and replace you. > You need to find beta test sights (gee, columbia might be a good > one, huh?) to do testing. Commercial sites are no place for such things. You just don't get it do you! In order to be able to fix a problem, you have to be able to duplicate it! I have tons of 3Coms here and they all work perfectly! If somebody has a problem with one, it's because they've put together a particular hardware and software configuration that triggers some pathological behavior. It's not fair then to expect somebody to be able to fix your problem if you don't make even the tiniest effort to explain what kind of configuration you have! Just who the hell are these famous customers of yours? Didn't it occur to you suggest that they file a bug report so that maybe their problem could be fixed and save them from having to buy new cards? This would not take a huge amount of time or effort! > I used to recommend DEC cards, and now the driver sucks, so I dont. I > recommend DEC or Intel in LINUX, because they work best. I dont care what > they use, and Im not concerned about the 35 drivers that have problems > under load. I cant be. I dont have time, and what's the difference? All > cards have the same functionality. The difference is that not everybody has access to all hardware! The difference is that not everybody can afford all hardware! The difference is that all cards don't get manufactured forever! The difference is that if you can't be bothered to get off you ass and actually report bugs properly and take some time to try testing a fix, pretty soon nobody will want to be bothered writing software for you anymore! > hey, you want to be famous, you gotta take some punches. When my drivers > have bugs, I take it on the chin. Part of the developer experience. :-) Don't you smiley at me! How would you feel if people just gradually stopped buying your products, and then one day you found out that it was was because of some silly little bug in your code that you could have fixed in fiv minutes if only somebody had cared enough to actually tell you about it? You'd be pretty pissed off, wouldn't you! More than that, your boss would be pretty pissed off too! So, tell me: just how many of you other people reading this have been having problems with 'drivers under load' and couldn't be bothered to actually report the problem? Hm? Well what're you waiting for?! Go on: speak up! Take two minutes of your precious time! I dare you! I double-dare you! No, I *triple*-dare you! Take your best shot! -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 15:15:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048A614DA3 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA43544 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:15:12 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been running 3.x and 4.0-CURRENT for some time, but have never bothered using PAM. Yesterday, after a build of 4.0-CURRENT of that day, I decided to try enabling PAM by copying /usr/src/pam.conf to /etc. My problem is that login fails, due to undefined symbols in the PAM modules: May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: unable to dlopen(/usr/lib/pam_skey.so) May 28 20:57:32 wopr /kernel: pid 12921 (login), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: [dlerror: /usr/lib/libskey.so.2: Undefined symbol "sys_siglist"] May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: adding faulty module: /usr/lib/pam_skey.so May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: unable to dlopen(/usr/lib/pam_unix.so) May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: [dlerror: /usr/lib/pam_unix.so: Undefined symbol "ctime"] May 28 20:57:32 wopr login: adding faulty module: /usr/lib/pam_unix.so I tried the following: I added "-lc" to the LDADD line in pam_unix's Makefile. It then apparently resolved the ctime symbol, but then bombed trying to resolve "environ" in libc: May 28 21:04:27 wopr login: unable to dlopen(/usr/lib/pam_unix.so) May 28 21:04:27 wopr login: [dlerror: /usr/lib/libc.so.3: Undefined symbol "environ"] May 28 21:04:27 wopr login: adding faulty module: /usr/lib/pam_unix.so Any ideas? Matt -- Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * intellect. -J.R. Mashey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 15:27: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4DA14E89 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27155 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199905292222.PAA27155@mag.ucsd.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe billh@mag.ucsd.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 15:37:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C9B14E89 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27212 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199905292232.PAA27212@mag.ucsd.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe freebsd-hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 17:47:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE6514D36 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:47:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12968; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905300046.RAA12968@implode.root.com> To: Brian Feldman Cc: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposed socket change (IPFW too? :) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 10:19:56 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:46:29 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sat, 29 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > >> > I'd like to propose a change in struct socket, which should increase its >> > functionality. It should first be noted that, along with my IPFW UID/GID >> > code (which would be nice to have merged into HEAD too, and if I must, I'll >> > clean up the ugly switch part), I included this change. Implementation time >> > would be nil, as would testing. >> >> no objection on the struct socket change (but i just wonder, if there >> are side effects in changing the struct socket, perhaps one might put >> the same parameter in the struct tcpcb/udpcb/inpcb ? after all it is >> being used by ipfw only). > >It's only truly associative with the socket itself, if you think about it. > I'd like to see >what David thinks about this change, since networking is seemingly 'his' > where IPFW is >'yours'. I don't have a problem with it in principle. You should get Garrett's opinion as well, though, as I might be missing something. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 29 19:27: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A1614CA1 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 19:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id DE6F34048; Sat, 29 May 1999 22:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D3C509AC8; Sat, 29 May 1999 22:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:26:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Bill Paul Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199905292204.SAA20795@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 May 1999, Bill Paul wrote: :So, tell me: just how many of you other people reading this have been :having problems with 'drivers under load' and couldn't be bothered to :actually report the problem? Hm? Well what're you waiting for?! Go on: :speak up! Take two minutes of your precious time! I dare you! I :double-dare you! No, I *triple*-dare you! Take your best shot! No no no no no. You gotta 'triple -dog- dare' them. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 1:50:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell18.ba.best.com (shell18.ba.best.com [206.184.139.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC583150B3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 01:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from loopd@best.com) Received: from localhost (loopd@localhost) by shell18.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) with ESMTP id BAA08905 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 01:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell18.ba.best.com: loopd owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 01:50:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Barringer X-Sender: loopd@shell18.ba.best.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and configures a kernel conf file for them? If not, I'll volunteer to write one... Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 3:59:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88EB155B0 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 03:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01339 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:58:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:58:36 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PNP card info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yOn Sat, 29 May 1999, Doug Rabson wrote: > Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially soundcards which > currently work with FreeBSD (or which used to work prior to the new-bus > merge) please send me the output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all > the device ids for the new-bus isapnp code. > > Thanks in advance. Thanks to everyone who sent me information. It will be very useful for getting the new pnp code working properly. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 5:32:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (oberon.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [195.178.136.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D65150B3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 05:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jar@ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: from ally.ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (jar@eth0.ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.0.1.12]) by relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.NYB/8.NYB) with ESMTP id PAA08302 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:31:50 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from jar@ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: (from jar@localhost) by ally.ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.9.3/PTF-1.0exp) id PAA35092; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:31:50 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from jar) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:31:50 +0300 (EEST) From: Yaroslav Halchinsky Message-Id: <199905301231.PAA35092@ally.ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990413 ("Endemoniada") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.2-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > configures a kernel conf file for them? Don't you find editing config file MUCH more easy thing than answering series of dumb questins again and again? -- Regards, Yaroslav Halchinsky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 5:52:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DD214C99 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA22254 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:52:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28178 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:51:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:51:51 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD 3.2, arp command doesn't show any entry Message-ID: <19990530145150.A28121@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ! Is that normal, that arp -a doesn't show any entry in the arp table ? I have these network interfaces: xl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 172.16.2.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 172.16.2.255 ether 00:60:97:aa:3a:db media: 10baseT/UTP (10baseT/UTP ) supported media: 10base2/BNC 10base5/AUI 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP ed0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 172.16.1.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 172.16.1.255 ether 00:00:c0:5a:98:2a isp0: flags=a051 mtu 1500 inet 194.231.123.169 --> 194.231.123.161 netmask 0xffffffe0 arp -a doesn't show anything, although I ping to www.freebsd.org and other hosts, but nothing will be displayed. Even the usage arp hostname isn't displaying anything.... arp myhostname titan (172.16.1.1) -- no entry ping myhostname arp myhostname titan (172.16.1.1) -- no entry What's that ? Andreas /// My kernel config: # # TITAN # machine "i386" cpu "I686_CPU" ident TITAN maxusers 100 #options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel #options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor #options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O options "I4B_SMP_WORKAROUND" # Options for the VM subsystem #options PQ_NOOPT # No coloring options PQ_LARGECACHE # color for 512k/16k cache #options PQ_HUGECACHE # color for 1024k/16k cache options NMBCLUSTERS=4096 # Debugging #options DDB #options KTRACE #kernel tracing # Network #options MROUTING # Multicast routing options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about # dropped packets options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD #enable xparent proxy support options "IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100" #limit verbosity options IPDIVERT #divert sockets #options "ICMP_BANDLIM" #options DUMMYNET options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options FFS_ROOT #FFS usable as root device [keep this!] options SOFTUPDATES #Softupdates options MFS #Memory Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options KERNFS #Kernel filesystem options NFS #Network File System options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "MD5" options NSWAPDEV=4 #options PCI_QUIET options COMPAT_LINUX options SHOW_BUSYBUFS options "P1003_1B" options "_KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING" options "_KPOSIX_VERSION=199309L" # Size of the kernel message buffer. Should be N * pagesize. options "MSGBUF_SIZE=40960" config kernel root on da0s2a controller isa0 controller pci0 #controller pnp0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 at ahc0 disk da0 at scbus0 target 0 unit 0 disk da4 at scbus0 target 1 unit 0 tape sa0 at scbus0 target 4 device cd0 at scbus0 target 5 device cd1 at scbus0 target 6 device pass0 # CAM passthrough driver # AHA 2940 controller ahc1 controller scbus1 at ahc1 disk da1 at scbus1 target 1 unit 0 disk da2 at scbus1 target 2 unit 0 disk da3 at scbus1 target 3 unit 0 options SCSI_DELAY=7000 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options AHC_ALLOW_MEMIO options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY # atkbdc0 controlls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD tty device atkbd0 at isa? tty irq 1 device psm0 at isa? tty irq 12 device vga0 at isa? port ? conflicts # splash screen/screen saver pseudo-device splash # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? tty device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x10 tty irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 # device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 # Parallel port and friends. This replaces lpt0 (see lint or man pages) device ppc0 at isa? port? flags 0x40 tty irq 7 controller ppbus0 device lpt0 at ppbus? device xl0 device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 #device pcm0 at isa? port ? tty irq 5 drq 1 flags 0x0 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device pty 256 pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) pseudo-device snp 3 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device sppp #Generic Synchronous PPP pseudo-device tun 1 #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device ccd 4 #Concatenated disk driver options PPP_BSDCOMP #PPP BSD-compress support options PPP_DEFLATE #PPP zlib/deflate/gzip support options PPP_FILTER #enable bpf filtering (needs bpfilter) # ISDN4BSD section # i4b passive ISDN cards support (isic - I4b Siemens Isdn Chipset driver) # note that the ``options'' and ``device'' lines must BOTH be defined ! # # Non-PnP Cards: # -------------- # # Teles S0/8 or Niccy 1008 #options "TEL_S0_8" #device isic0 at isa? iomem 0xd0000 net irq 5 flags 1 # # Teles S0/16 or Creatix ISDN-S0 or Niccy 1016 #options "TEL_S0_16" #device isic0 at isa? port 0xd80 iomem 0xd0000 net irq 5 flags 2 # # Teles S0/16.3 options "TEL_S0_16_3" device isic0 at isa? port 0xd80 net irq 9 flags 3 # # AVM A1 or AVM Fritz!Card #options "AVM_A1" #device isic0 at isa? port 0x340 net irq 5 flags 4 # # USRobotics Sportster ISDN TA intern #options "USR_STI" #device isic0 at isa? port 0x268 net irq 5 flags 7 # # ITK ix1 Micro #options "ITKIX1" #device isic0 at isa? port 0x398 net irq 10 flags 18 # # PnP-Cards: # ---------- # # Teles S0/16.3 PnP #options "TEL_S0_16_3_P" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # Creatix ISDN-S0 P&P #options "CRTX_S0_P" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # Dr. Neuhaus Niccy Go@ #options "DRN_NGO" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # Sedlbauer Win Speed #options "SEDLBAUER" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # Dynalink IS64PH #options "DYNALINK" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # ELSA QuickStep 1000pro ISA #options "ELSA_QS1ISA" #device isic0 at isa? port ? net irq ? # # PCI-Cards: # ---------- # # ELSA QuickStep 1000pro PCI #options "ELSA_QS1PCI" #device isic0 # # PCMCIA-Cards: # ------------- # # AVM PCMCIA Fritz!Card #options "AVM_A1_PCMCIA" #device isic0 at isa? port 0x340 net irq 5 flags 10 # # Active Cards: # ------------- # # Stollmann Tina-dd control device #device tina0 at isa? port 0x260 net irq 10 # # ISDN Protocol Stack # ------------------- # # Q.921 / layer 2 - i4b passive cards D channel handling pseudo-device "i4bq921" # # Q.931 / layer 3 - i4b passive cards D channel handling pseudo-device "i4bq931" # # layer 4 - i4b common passive and active card handling pseudo-device "i4b" # # ISDN devices # ------------ # # userland driver to do ISDN tracing (for passive cards only) pseudo-device "i4btrc" 4 # # userland driver to control the whole thing pseudo-device "i4bctl" # # userland driver for access to raw B channel pseudo-device "i4brbch" 4 # # userland driver for telephony pseudo-device "i4btel" 2 # # network driver for IP over raw HDLC ISDN pseudo-device "i4bipr" 4 # enable VJ header compression detection for ipr i/f options IPR_VJ # # network driver for sync PPP over ISDN pseudo-device "i4bisppp" 4 -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 8:13:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E6714DCE for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 08:13:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA25568 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:13:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA32048; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:12:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:12:43 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.2, arp command doesn't show any entry Message-ID: <19990530171243.A32011@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990530145150.A28121@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990530145150.A28121@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 02:51:51PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 02:51:51PM +0200, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hi ! > > Is that normal, that arp -a doesn't show any entry in the arp table ? [...] Umpf, was the only host on local network. Thought that perhaps my local LAN adapters show up, but this is perhaps because my local interfaces simply are there and my local host doesn't need ARP to resolve IP/MAC adresses... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 8:20:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967A514D34 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 08:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id QAA76682 for freebsd.org!hackers; Sun, 30 May 1999 16:20:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 30 May 1999 16:08:51 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:08:48 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: APC SmartUPS 110v Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Does anyone have the allowable setpoint values for 110v versions of the APC SmartUPS? The upsd-2.0 port seems only to cater for 230v versions. TIA -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 8:30:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1333914C99; Sun, 30 May 1999 08:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25749; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:29:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199905301529.LAA25749@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dean Lombardo Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a two-level port system? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 16:01:28 BST." <374D5E48.15A2D82B@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:29:22 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alternatively, is it possible to have the port tree be essentially empty (perhaps just the makefile and category directories) and then just have it fetch the makefiles and make the directories on demand, for the individal ports? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 8:39:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED87B14BE0 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 08:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10470 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 11:39:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: so_cred changes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-193501839-928078791=:10426" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-193501839-928078791=:10426 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here they all are! I bumped __FreeBSD_version so this can be detected outside of the kernel (*cough* pidentd *cough*); this makes pidentd a lot simpler; I am also going to write a sysctl interface for getting credential info soon, so I'll reimplement identd then. Anyone for /usr/libexec/identd? :) IPFW UID/GID support still works, but I'm cleaning up (Since I just broke it out of so_cred changes, and it can USE the cleanup.) Anyone for committing the so_cred changes? I've got the the pidentd changes here, too. 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mail-gw6.pacbell.net: adsl-207-105-40-236.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [207.105.40.236] didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Medical Center Online" Date: Sun, 30 May 99 09:15:41 -0700 Subject: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE X-Mailer: http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter Some people may find this subject a bit offensive, but the truth of the matter is Viagra from Pfizer has truly helped many people and even saved marriages. The only problem in the past was that in order to get a prescription for this marriage-saving pill was to go through an EMBARASSING appointment with your doctor. I know, I had to tell a strange nurse why I wanted to see the doctor - it wasn't one of the most comfortable phone calls :-) So if you are one of the many millions of Americans suffering from ED (erectile dysfunction) or you would just like to try Viagra to see if it will increase intimacy with your mate (it will) - here is an opportunity to order it discretely, privately and inexpensively right over the internet. ------------------------------ Need Viagra? No Prescription? No Problem... No appointments, no waiting rooms, no embarrassment. Imagine -- your next order of Viagra is just a click away. MedCenter Online in association with KwikMed, Inc. is able to offer individuals afflicted with sexual dysfunction the ability to order Viagra online --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genuine Pfizer Viagra(tm) Can Be Legally Ordered Online For As Little As $6 Per Dose (normally $10 per dose - You save $4 per dose) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- click on the link below for information on how you can order Viagra(tm) for as little as $6 per dose: http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It has been estimated that up to 30 million American men suffer from sexual dysfunction (impotence). Until recently, sexual dysfunction has been effectively treated with injections, surgery, and other procedures, many of which are painful and embarrassing. In March 1998, the FDA announced that Viagra® a new drug from Pfizer, Inc., has been approved as treatment for male sexual dysfunction. MedCenter Online & KwikMed, Inc. is able to offer individuals afflicted with sexual dysfunction an evaluation for suitability to Viagra therapy. The evaluation is performed by qualified American physicians in a manner which is simple, secure, and without embarrassment. http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 9:48:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from campus.her.itesm.mx (campus.her.itesm.mx [200.36.229.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539AF15105 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jherrera@campus.her.itesm.mx) Received: from VENTANA ([200.36.231.18]) by campus.her.itesm.mx with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id L5Q99C50; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:45:59 -0600 Message-ID: <000501beaabc$56d27800$12e724c8@her.itesm.mx> From: "Lic. Jose Maria Herrera" To: , "Medical Center Online" References: <199905301614.JAA08728@mail-gw6.pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:49:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please send me just one pill. wtf? ----- Original Message ----- From: Medical Center Online To: Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 9:15 AM Subject: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter > > Some people may find this subject a bit offensive, but the truth of the matter is Viagra from Pfizer has truly helped many people and even saved marriages. > > The only problem in the past was that in order to get a prescription for this marriage-saving pill was to go through an EMBARASSING appointment with your doctor. I know, I had to tell a strange nurse why I wanted to see the doctor - it wasn't one of the most comfortable phone calls :-) > > So if you are one of the many millions of Americans suffering from ED (erectile dysfunction) or you would just like to try Viagra to see if it will increase intimacy with your mate (it will) - here is an opportunity to order it discretely, privately and inexpensively right over the internet. > ------------------------------ > Need Viagra? > No Prescription? > No Problem... > > No appointments, no waiting rooms, no embarrassment. > Imagine -- your next order of Viagra is just a click away. > > MedCenter Online in association with KwikMed, Inc. is able to offer individuals afflicted with sexual dysfunction the ability to order Viagra online > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Genuine Pfizer Viagra(tm) > Can Be Legally Ordered Online For As Little As $6 Per Dose > (normally $10 per dose - You save $4 per dose) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > click on the link below for information on how you can > order Viagra(tm) for as little as $6 per dose: > > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > It has been estimated that up to 30 million American men suffer from sexual dysfunction (impotence). Until recently, sexual dysfunction has been effectively treated with injections, surgery, and other procedures, many of which are painful and embarrassing. In March 1998, the FDA announced that Viagra® a new drug from Pfizer, Inc., has been approved as treatment for male sexual dysfunction. > > MedCenter Online & KwikMed, Inc. is able to offer individuals afflicted with sexual dysfunction an evaluation for suitability to Viagra therapy. The evaluation is performed by qualified American physicians in a manner which is simple, secure, and without embarrassment. > > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 9:56:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3149E14C08 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29651; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:56:16 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03373; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:56:08 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199905301656.SAA03373@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: Doug Rabson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PNP card info needed Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:56:07 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could anyone with any ISA plug-and-play cards, especially soundcards which > currently work with FreeBSD (or which used to work prior to the new-bus > merge) please send me the output of /usr/sbin/pnpinfo. I need to know all > the device ids for the new-bus isapnp code. Sure. The first is an Intel PR440X M/B with onboard soundcard; the other is a Genuine CL SB 64 (Mumble) ISA soundcard. I may be able to dig out other details if you need them. M Checking for Plug-n-Play devices... Card assigned CSN #1 Vendor ID CSC0b36 (0x360b630e), Serial Number 0xffffffff PnP Version 1.0, Vendor Version 1 Device Description: CS4236 Audio Logical Device ID: CSC0000 0x0000630e #0 Device Description: WSS/SB TAG Start DF Good Configuration DMA: channel(s) 1 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Type A DMA: channel(s) 0 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Type A IRQ: 5 - only one type (true/edge) I/O Range 0x534 .. 0x534, alignment 0x4, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x8, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x220, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration DMA: channel(s) 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Type A DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Type A IRQ: 5 7 9 11 12 15 - only one type (true/edge) I/O Range 0x534 .. 0xffc, alignment 0x4, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x8, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x260, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Sub-optimal Configuration DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Type A IRQ: 5 7 9 11 12 15 - only one type (true/edge) I/O Range 0x534 .. 0xffc, alignment 0x4, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x3f8, alignment 0x8, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x300, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CSC0001 0x0100630e #1 Device Description: GAME TAG Start DF Good Configuration I/O Range 0x200 .. 0x200, alignment 0x8, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration I/O Range 0x208 .. 0x208, alignment 0x8, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CSC0010 0x1000630e #2 Device Description: CTRL I/O Range 0x120 .. 0xff8, alignment 0x8, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] Logical Device ID: CSC0003 0x0300630e #3 Device Description: MPU TAG Start DF Good Configuration IRQ: 9 - only one type (true/edge) I/O Range 0x330 .. 0x330, alignment 0x8, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 9 11 12 15 - only one type (true/edge) I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x3f8, alignment 0x8, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF End Tag Successfully got 44 resources, 4 logical fdevs -- card select # 0x0001 CSN CSC0b36 (0x360b630e), Serial Number 0xffffffff Logical device #0 IO: 0x0534 0x0388 0x0220 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 5 0 DMA 1 0 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #1 IO: 0x0200 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #2 IO: 0x0ff0 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #3 IO: 0x0330 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 9 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Checking for Plug-n-Play devices... Card assigned CSN #1 Vendor ID CTL00e4 (0xe4008c0e), Serial Number 0x0d1504c3 PnP Version 1.0, Vendor Version 16 Device Description: Creative SB AWE64 PnP *** Small Vendor Tag Detected Logical Device ID: CTL0045 0x45008c0e #0 Device Description: Audio TAG Start DF Good Configuration IRQ: 5 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 1 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x220, alignment 0x1, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x330 .. 0x330, alignment 0x1, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x388, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x30, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Sub-optimal Configuration IRQ: 5 7 9 10 - only one type (true/edge) DMA: channel(s) 0 1 3 8-bit, not a bus master, count by byte, , Compatibility mode DMA: channel(s) 5 6 7 16-bit, not a bus master, , count by word, Compatibility mode I/O Range 0x220 .. 0x280, alignment 0x20, len 0x10 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x300 .. 0x330, alignment 0x10, len 0x2 [16-bit addr] I/O Range 0x388 .. 0x394, alignment 0x4, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CTL7002 0x02708c0e #1 Compatible Device ID: PNPb02f (2fb0d041) Device Description: Game TAG Start DF Good Configuration I/O Range 0x200 .. 0x200, alignment 0x1, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration I/O Range 0x200 .. 0x208, alignment 0x8, len 0x8 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF Logical Device ID: CTL0022 0x22008c0e #2 Device Description: WaveTable TAG Start DF Good Configuration I/O Range 0x620 .. 0x620, alignment 0x1, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG Start DF Acceptable Configuration I/O Range 0x620 .. 0x680, alignment 0x20, len 0x4 [16-bit addr] TAG End DF *** Small Vendor Tag Detected End Tag Successfully got 69 resources, 3 logical fdevs -- card select # 0x0001 CSN CTL00e4 (0xe4008c0e), Serial Number 0x0d1504c3 Logical device #0 IO: 0x0220 0x0000 0x0388 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 5 0 DMA 1 5 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #1 IO: 0x0200 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 Logical device #2 IO: 0x0620 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 0x0000 IRQ 0 0 DMA 4 4 IO range check 0x00 activate 0x01 -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 10: 5:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA8D14A09 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 10:05:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA63689; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:04:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Lic. Jose Maria Herrera" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Medical Center Online Subject: Re: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE In-Reply-To: <000501beaabc$56d27800$12e724c8@her.itesm.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Lic. Jose Maria Herrera wrote: > Please send me just one pill. > > wtf? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Medical Center Online > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 9:15 AM > Subject: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE > > > > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter Please, if you feel the need to comment on a really annoying spam (which I can understand, this one's gross), then DON'T resend the entire spam, just the minimum it takes to identify it to others. You're respamming the list yourself. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 10:13:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.svr.vastnet.net (mail.svr.vastnet.net [207.252.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB6614A12 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 10:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port22.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.22]) by mail.svr.vastnet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24924; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:15:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199905301715.NAA24924@mail.svr.vastnet.net> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:17:48 -0400 To: Bill Paul From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905292159.RAA01509@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> References: <199905291712.NAA13802@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 05:59 PM 5/29/99 -0400, you wrote: >Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Dennis had to >walk into mine and say: > >> >Then *FIND THEM OUT*! Replacing the cards does not fix the problem! How >> >is anybody supposed to be able to help you if a) you never tell anybody >> >about the trouble, b) you destroy the test configuration where the problem >> >occurs, thereby assuring that nobody will be able to duplicate it again, >> >and c) you don't even lift a finger to investigate! >> >> I dont want help, > >That's too bad because you really need it! > >> I recommended Intel cards, the customer used 3coms >> because "someone told them they were good cards", they had problems, and I >> said "I told you so". Im just relaying the info..if I had REAL info as the >> what the problem was I would have told you, but commercial sites are not >> the place to be debugging problems. > >They are the *perfect* place to be debugging problems! Who do you think >causes most of them!? And just what kind of information did you think you >were relaying? Couldn't you be bothered to invest a few seconds to at >least find out what version of FreeBSD they had? And how much are you going to pay them to have their people debug a problem that can be fixed by using another card? You academics crack me up. > >> I have no stake in 3com cards (they are >> problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my >> problem. > >It *is* your problem. Supposing you can't get Intel cards anymore. >Then what're you going to do. Use something else that works. If none of them work then FreeBSD is no longer a viable option. > >> Not that I wouldnt like to help, but when I have a company president >> calling me to complain that the box is going down Im in no position to say >> "stick with the 3com cards, they'll have them running soon." Its the way >> it is. > >No, that's not the way it is. You can't play musical hardware forever. >Sooner or later you're going to run into a situation where you won't >have another hardware option, and then your company president is going >to find out just how useless you are and replace you. Yes you can. If intel stops producing cards them some other card will become the darling of Freebsd. All OSes have a few cards that are battle tested and lots of other ones that work ok if you dont try to do too much with them. It IS the way it is, and its the way its been with PC unices since the days of XENIX 286. Why is the DEC PCI driver so good in linux and so crappy in FreeBSD? Because they spend a LOT more time on it, and it is highly supported. Nobody cares about it in FreeBSD, when I complained that my -AC revision wouldnt probe on a 10mb/s network (it STILL doesnt work a year later), I switched to intel because noone seemed to care. They kept telling me to port Matt's netbsd driver. Why should I deal with that headache when I can just use something else? > >> You need to find beta test sights (gee, columbia might be a good >> one, huh?) to do testing. Commercial sites are no place for such things. > >You just don't get it do you! In order to be able to fix a problem, >you have to be able to duplicate it! I do this for a living, you think I dont get it? Some customers let me fix bugs when they have them, some are less patient. Until I get a customer who is willing to work with me, then it doesnt get fixed. I just fixed a problem last week that has been haunting me for months, because i FINALLY got someone to do a dump analysis rather than just whine about it. You have to have customers that are technically competent to work with. The 3com customer had a bridge set up between a $75,000 cisco with a T3 and over 2000 hosts. You cant ask them to take their network down because their ethernet card is locking up every few hours. Be real. >I have tons of 3Coms here and they >all work perfectly! If somebody has a problem with one, it's because >they've put together a particular hardware and software configuration >that triggers some pathological behavior. It's not fair then to expect >somebody to be able to fix your problem i I didnt ask you to fix my problem, did I? The last problem I had I gave you the patch because my customer let me fix it and it was easy to find. This time they weren't patient and were ready to cancel the order. And they didnt know what they were doing. They needed a plug and play solution, which is why they bought my product in the first place. > >> I used to recommend DEC cards, and now the driver sucks, so I dont. I >> recommend DEC or Intel in LINUX, because they work best. I dont care what >> they use, and Im not concerned about the 35 drivers that have problems >> under load. I cant be. I dont have time, and what's the difference? All >> cards have the same functionality. > >The difference is that not everybody has access to all hardware! The >difference is that not everybody can afford all hardware! The difference >is that all cards don't get manufactured forever! The difference is that >if you can't be bothered to get off you ass and actually report bugs >properly and take some time to try testing a fix, pretty soon nobody >will want to be bothered writing software for you anymore! Are you guys writing this for me? Gee Thanks :-) LOL...Well if some guy in the baltics cant get intel cards then he's probably running LINUX anyway. > >> hey, you want to be famous, you gotta take some punches. When my drivers >> have bugs, I take it on the chin. Part of the developer experience. :-) > >Don't you smiley at me! How would you feel if people just gradually >stopped buying your products, and then one day you found out that it was >was because of some silly little bug in your code that you could have >fixed in fiv minutes if only somebody had cared enough to actually tell >you about it? You'd be pretty pissed off, wouldn't you! More than that, >your boss would be pretty pissed off too! My boss doesnt get pissed off :-) We'll you're not selling your driver or 3com cards, so the analogy is a bit off. This, in fact, happens all the time, and it MY responsibility to have expensive test beds to reproduce the problems. People who buy "free" software dont understand that commercial products are often better because the commercial companies spend a lot of money developing, testing and supporting their products. 98% of the bugs we fix are recreated in our test beds and fixed that way...its not feasible to fix things in other people machines. You rely on cooperation to get things fixed...people who've spent thousands of dollars on a product are entitled to expect it to work. > >So, tell me: just how many of you other people reading this have been >having problems with 'drivers under load' and couldn't be bothered to >actually report the problem? Hm? Well what're you waiting for?! Go on: >speak up! Take two minutes of your precious time! I dare you! I >double-dare you! No, I *triple*-dare you! Take your best shot! I did report it. I have never liked 3Com as a company and I dont recommend their cards. They build crappy products (they had a totally defective frame relay router because their engineers had no clue how frame relay worked). I told my customer not to use it before they purchase my product. Now they respect my opinion. Its my job to know the best choices...thats why my customers pay me...to save them weeks of headaches. I was evaluating a MB that had a built-in realtec ethernet controller. YOUR comments in the driver said it was a piece of crap. Should I use it anyway? No, I use something that I know works. Perhaps our bandwidth manager puts an unusual load on the card when it unloads its queues (which could present a large amount of traffic in a short time.) If you'd like a key to test with, just ask for it. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 11: 3:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DD01504A for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip78.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.78]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D90A37082; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05384; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:03:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:03:36 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Brian Feldman Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so_cred changes Message-ID: <19990530130336.E1297@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Feldman on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:39:51AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999, Brian Feldman wrote: > Anyone for committing the so_cred changes? I've got the the pidentd changes > here, too. I have also produced a patch against doc/en/handbook/ports/chapter.sgml for this bump-up in the version macro. Index: chapter.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en/handbook/ports/chapter.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.20 diff -u -r1.20 chapter.sgml --- chapter.sgml 1999/05/25 15:56:30 1.20 +++ chapter.sgml 1999/05/30 17:55:15 @@ -3346,6 +3346,11 @@ 400005 + + 4.0-CURRENT after change in socket structure + 400006 + + -- Chris Costello SCCS, the source motel! Programs check in and never check out! - Ken Thompson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 11:37:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EAFD14E7B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA17097; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:12:13 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905301612.SAA17097@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PCI bus chanages from 2.2.x to 3.x/4.x and data corruption. To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:12:13 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199905301719.NAA82586@whizzo.transsys.com> from "Louis A. Mamakos" at May 30, 99 01:18:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1439 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > It may be a compiler optimisation. > > > > i think all memory-mapped registers should be declared "volatile" to > > avoid such things occur. I remember when i was looking at both the > > meteor and bt848 drivers, there was some confusion about it. > > Depending on when you looked, the stuff you excepted below probably > didn't exist. It's been more than a year now, I think, but I > introduced the macro and associated typedef when I changed the driver very likely. i have been using a home-grown bt848 driver (derived from some early version of the official one) for some time until the time i switched to 2.2.6. In any case: the use of "volatile" seems correct now so i wonder why/if the compiler "optimizes" out the sequence bt848->tdec = 0; bt848->tdec = something; or perhaps is the bt848 chip which requires some time to detect&react to the first write (and if i remember well, the data sheets are extremely confused on this register). cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 11:51:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 367B5151A3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA15420 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:40:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang Reply-To: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: question about vnode and inode locking Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems to me that we can lock at the vnode layer AND at the inode layer. Since an inode is always associated with a vnode, and is accessed via its vnode, I do not see the reason why we should lock the inode after having locked the vnode. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks a lot. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 12:16:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell18.ba.best.com (shell18.ba.best.com [206.184.139.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA0A14BD2 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from loopd@best.com) Received: from localhost (loopd@localhost) by shell18.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) with ESMTP id MAA27777 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell18.ba.best.com: loopd owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Barringer X-Sender: loopd@shell18.ba.best.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905301231.PAA35092@ally.ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Yaroslav Halchinsky wrote: > Don't you find editing config file MUCH more easy thing than answering > series of dumb questins again and again? *I* do, yes. In fact, I hate any other way. But I've heard it as a about 10 times now from people currently using Linux. And oddly enough, it seems to be the one thing that causes people to not use FreeBSD (and these were not exactly *nix newbies). Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 14:16:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from io.checker.org (h24-66-174-118.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.174.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B4D14EFB for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:16:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jake@checker.org) Received: from io.checker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by io.checker.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21353C9 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:18:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 12:16:46 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:18:54 -0700 From: Jake Burkholder Message-Id: <19990530211854.21353C9@io.checker.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Yaroslav Halchinsky wrote: > > > Don't you find editing config file MUCH more easy thing than answering > > series of dumb questins again and again? > > *I* do, yes. In fact, I hate any other way. But I've heard it as a > about 10 times now from people currently using Linux. And oddly enough, it > seems to be the one thing that causes people to not use FreeBSD (and these > were not exactly *nix newbies). Yeah, we get this alot on IRC. Linux people seem to need it. Another idea, (just an idea, I don't know enough to volunteer) would be to take the output of dmesg from the generic kernel, and make a config file from that, which would just have the drivers that were found. -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 14:45:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles525.castles.com [208.214.165.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFE314D79 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12021; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905302142.OAA12021@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matt Barringer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 01:50:42 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:42:33 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > configures a kernel conf file for them? > > If not, I'll volunteer to write one... Not useful; there's a single-line edit in /etc/rc.conf that does everything that's required. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 14:53: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles525.castles.com [208.214.165.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA2214C4E for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12070; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:50:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905302150.OAA12070@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: Bill Paul , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 01:17:48 EDT." <199905301715.NAA24924@mail.svr.vastnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:50:08 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I have no stake in 3com cards (they are > >> problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my > >> problem. > > > >It *is* your problem. Supposing you can't get Intel cards anymore. > >Then what're you going to do. > > Use something else that works. If none of them work then FreeBSD is no > longer a viable option. This is the core fallacy; you should restate this as: "If none of them work, then FreeBSD is no longer a viable option because it will require me to do some work to help fix them". I'm sorry; the FreeBSD Project is dedicated to developing operating system code, not wiping your ass. You've received abundant offers of assistance requiring no more than minimal effort on your part, and turned them all down. This kind of selfish laziness is something we can all do without. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 14:59:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from io.checker.org (h24-66-174-118.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.174.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA33B14C4E for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jake@checker.org) Received: from io.checker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by io.checker.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AA0C9 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 14:42:33 PDT." <199905302142.OAA12021@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:01:31 -0700 From: Jake Burkholder Message-Id: <19990530220131.B6AA0C9@io.checker.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been > > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that > > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > > configures a kernel conf file for them? > > > > If not, I'll volunteer to write one... > > Not useful; there's a single-line edit in /etc/rc.conf that does > everything that's required. That's just a bad example, linux has a loadable module for iBCS too. Do you have a scsi card? Do you have a sound card? ... etc. I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. Of course its an ugly stop-gap, the whole kernel is moving to a more dynamic model. Eventually all drivers will be a one-line edit to loader.conf, or something along those lines... -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 15:14:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DCD14E91 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA05198; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:13:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199905302213.RAA05198@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905302142.OAA12021@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "May 30, 1999 2:42:33 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:13:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: loopd@best.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been > > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that > > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > > configures a kernel conf file for them? > > > > If not, I'll volunteer to write one... > > Not useful; there's a single-line edit in /etc/rc.conf that does > everything that's required. > I think what he's getting at is something like this discussion I had, trying to convert someone from linux to freebsd. Him: ... and the kernel configuration is horrible, you have to open up this LINT file and your kernel config file, and keep switching back and forth between the two, to make any sense out of the options. Me: But once you know the options, being able to have a config file you can just move around rather than playing 20,000 questions is much faster. Him: Fine, but give me the 20,000 questions so the first few times I do it, I know what the options mean, that should dump out a config file, that is commented. I think his arguements have a bit of merit, but are about two different problems. 1) The kernel config options are only documented in LINT, which really isn't meant for that sorta thing, and I'll admit, they're not documented well. (contrast linux's config where you can hit ? and get a few paragraphs of info for each option, such as "If I leave this in, and don't have the hardware, will it cause problems?" etc...) 2) It's not the most graceful system for newbies, switching between two files in a text editor is a bit much for some folks. I personally like the system they way it is, but I didn't like it when i first started. Something akin to the 'visual' mode in userconfig that you can use if you need to, but it's not strictly necessary for more experienced people? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 15:37:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5551524E for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id QAA15402; Sun, 30 May 1999 16:37:42 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199905302237.QAA15402@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: APC SmartUPS 110v In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "May 30, 1999 04:08:48 pm" To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bob Bishop wrote... > Hi, > > Does anyone have the allowable setpoint values for 110v versions of the APC > SmartUPS? The upsd-2.0 port seems only to cater for 230v versions. TIA I noticed the same things as well. I ended up using upsmon, which is /usr/ports/sysutils/upsmon. I hacked it to read the temperature sensor on my SmartUPS 1400 and the line frequency. (figured out how to read those values from the upsd sources) It'll shut your machine down in the event of a power outage, but it isn't nearly as configurable as upsd. On the other hand, it seems to work out of the box, and upsd seems to need a bit of hacking to work. Here's a sample of the output from upsmon's command line status utility: {panzer:/usr/home/ken:9:0} upsstat UPSMON Status Reporting Facility --- upsmond version 2.1.3 --- APC UPS 700 Status Info -------------------------------------------------------- Model: SMART-UPS 1400 CopyRight: (C) APCC Manufacture date: 01/08/99 Serial #: [ deleted ] Firmware version: 70.11.D Local ID: ken1 Last battery replace date: 01/08/99 Nominal line voltage: 115 V Nominal battery voltage: 24 V Available: YES Standby: NO Line Power: OK Battery: OK Line Voltage: 120.90 Load: 34.30 % Battery Voltage: 28.01 Battery Level: 100.00 % Temperature: 90.32 F, 32.40 C Line Frequency: 60.00 Hz -------------------------------------------------------- It says "APC UPS 700", which of course isn't correct. The correct info is in the model description above. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 15:41:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles525.castles.com [208.214.165.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F4F14E1B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:41:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12315; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905302238.PAA12315@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jake Burkholder Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 15:01:31 PDT." <19990530220131.B6AA0C9@io.checker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:38:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there been > > > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that > > > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > > > configures a kernel conf file for them? > > > > > > If not, I'll volunteer to write one... > > > > Not useful; there's a single-line edit in /etc/rc.conf that does > > everything that's required. > > That's just a bad example, linux has a loadable module for iBCS too. > > Do you have a scsi card? > Do you have a sound card? > ... etc. > > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. I'm not sure we want those sort of people. But there's already a script that behaves like this and writes a standard config file; search the list archives. > Of course its an ugly stop-gap, the whole kernel is moving to a more > dynamic model. Eventually all drivers will be a one-line edit to > loader.conf, or something along those lines... Ideally, no interaction at all will be required. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 16:13:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from osgroup.com (unknown [38.229.41.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C703C14D5B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 16:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stan@osgroup.com) Received: from stan166 ([38.229.41.237]) by osgroup.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01822 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:01:59 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:33 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEAAC8.445E89A0.stan@osgroup.com> From: Constantine Shkolnyy Reply-To: "stan@osgroup.com" To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Kernel config script Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:31 -0500 Organization: Ashley Laurent, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, May 30, 1999 5:39 PM, Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] wrote: > > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. > > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. You don't want FreeBSD to have more users? Do you think it already has enough users? How many users is enough? What is the goal of the FreeBSD project? To be the test platform for new kernel ideas exclusively? Why do you tolerate the presence of the X on the FreeBSD CD-ROMs then? Making the script is like making more documentation. Is the current FreeBSD documentation so plentiful that making more documentation would harm somebody? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 17: 9: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 783FF14D5B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 42533 invoked from network); 31 May 1999 01:10:08 -0000 Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.40) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 31 May 1999 01:10:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA52760; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:09:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-1.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:09:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Mike Smith Cc: Jake Burkholder , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905302238.PAA12315@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. But there's already a What sort of people is FreeBSD after then? There are all sorts of people who need a mailserver, or a webserver, or whatever, who would otherwise get someone to sell them an NT based solution. A friend works for a rather behind the times company who is just getting intra-office email. They had been sold on some gastly solution that runs under NT, and required three boxes to do maybe 80 users mail. Why didn't they use a Unix solution? Too expensive, because they would have had to have paid some high-priced consultant to set things up. If my friend had been able to show off a nifty configuration utility, he might have had better luck selling the FreeBSD solution I recomended. Are you saying that we don't want a presence in any machine room we can get one? That FreeBSD should only be for talented ubergeeks? "The power to serve" doesn't do anyone any good if they can't figure out how to apply it. David Scheidt > Ideally, no interaction at all will be required. Just give me knobs to turn everything off. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 17:13:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bluerose.windmoon.nu (c66498-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.123.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB75A14D5B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu) Received: from localhost (fengyue@localhost) by bluerose.windmoon.nu (Windmoon-Patched/8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10054 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:18:47 -0700 (PDT) From: =?ISO-9550?B?o8C359TCv82jwA==?= To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905302238.PAA12315@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. > > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. But there's already a Oh man! So, what kind of people do 'we' want then? Who are we? Are you speaking of FreeBSD community? I hope NOT! FreeBSD is getting far less attention as it should. Now, I'm getting to know the reason. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 17:13:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B6615268 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28675; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:30:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199905310030.KAA28675@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: from David Scheidt at "May 30, 1999 7: 9: 3 pm" To: dscheidt@enteract.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:30:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jake@checker.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. But there's already a > > What sort of people is FreeBSD after then? There are all sorts of people > who need a mailserver, or a webserver, or whatever, who would otherwise get > someone to sell them an NT based solution. A friend works for a rather > behind the times company who is just getting intra-office email. They had > been sold on some gastly solution that runs under NT, and required three > boxes to do maybe 80 users mail. Why didn't they use a Unix solution? Too > expensive, because they would have had to have paid some high-priced > consultant to set things up. If my friend had been able to show off a nifty > configuration utility, he might have had better luck selling the FreeBSD > solution I recomended. > Are you saying that we don't want a presence in any machine room we can get > one? That FreeBSD should only be for talented ubergeeks? "The power to > serve" doesn't do anyone any good if they can't figure out how to apply it. Why build a kernel at all? The generic kernel should do that application just fine. Only build a custom kernel if you have a good reason to do so. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 17:14:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles513.castles.com [208.214.165.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2868414D5B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12728; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905310011.RAA12728@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Scheidt Cc: Mike Smith , Jake Burkholder , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 19:09:03 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:11:37 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Ideally, no interaction at all will be required. > Just give me knobs to turn everything off. How does "no interaction required" translate to "everything will be on"? Give us a little more credit than that. 8) -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 17:18:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles513.castles.com [208.214.165.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B767214D5B for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:18:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12765; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905310015.RAA12765@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "stan@osgroup.com" Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:31 CDT." <01BEAAC8.445E89A0.stan@osgroup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:15:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sunday, May 30, 1999 5:39 PM, Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] wrote: > > > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. > > > > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. > > You don't want FreeBSD to have more users? We want more users, sure. But we're not desperate for them; there are certain classes of users that it's in our interests _not_ to attract. > Making the script is like making more documentation. Is the current > FreeBSD documentation so plentiful that making more documentation would > harm somebody? Making such a script is specifically targetted at a small group of users; those accustomed to the Linux way of doing things and too inflexible or untalented to learn a new way. Right now, these people aren't users we're interested in - they represent more workload and more support expense than we have free to give. Accumulating users like these is like growing barnacles; it doesn't take too many of them to severely impede forward progress. Of course, if we manage to acquire some more thrust in the form of people willing to write documentation, then we can afford more barnacles. Do I see you offering some of your time? -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 18: 2: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pawn.primelocation.net (unknown [205.161.238.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5914114CB1 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jedgar@fxp.org) Received: (qmail 52557 invoked by uid 1003); 31 May 1999 01:02:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 31 May 1999 01:02:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:02:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" X-Sender: jedgar@pawn.primelocation.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905310030.KAA28675@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, John Birrell wrote: > Why build a kernel at all? The generic kernel should do that application > just fine. Only build a custom kernel if you have a good reason to do > so. > I somewhat agree. A custom kernel is useful for setting up and tuning parameters (e.g. softupdates); however, unlike Linux, we don't have a new kernel every week to reconfigure. ----- Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never System/Network Administrator | claimed they were one, and always Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 18:12:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9DD14CB1; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14882; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA02306; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> To: mph@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime In-Reply-To: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu>, Matthew Hunt wrote: > I have been running 3.x and 4.0-CURRENT for some time, but have > never bothered using PAM. If you are running 3.1 or later, or -current, you _are_ using PAM. Login uses it automatically, and it's not something you enable or disable. If you don't have a valid /etc/pam.conf file then login issues loud and repeated complaints to syslog, which will appear on the system console. > Yesterday, after a build of 4.0-CURRENT of that day, I decided to > try enabling PAM by copying /usr/src/pam.conf to /etc. There is no file /usr/src/pam.conf. Do you mean /usr/src/etc/pam.conf? > My problem is that login fails, due to undefined symbols in the PAM > modules: I don't know what's going on with your system, but something is messed up. Maybe you're trying to mix and match a.out and ELF files. Try running "file" on /usr/bin/login as well as your libpam and pam modules. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 18:29:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBF3B14BCF for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@narcissus.net) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA03893; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:28:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nyc-ny66-22.ix.netcom.com(209.109.225.86) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003883; Sun May 30 20:28:46 1999 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Spike X-Sender: spork@pigstuy.penguinpowered.com Reply-To: sporkl@ix.netcom.com To: =?ISO-9550?B?o8C359TCv82jwA==?= Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, [ISO-9550] =A3=C0=B7=E7=D4=C2=BF=CD=A3=C0 wrote: >=20 > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. > >=20 > > I'm not sure we want those sort of people. But there's already a=20 >=20 > Oh man! So, what kind of people do 'we' want then? > Who are we? Are you speaking of FreeBSD community? I hope NOT! >=20 > FreeBSD is getting far less attention as it should. Now, I'm getting > to know the reason. =09The reason isn't a lack of impetus towards catering to newbie users with minor OS features, the reason is that operating systems like Linux have many vocal fanatics on their side. If FreeBSD had RMS, ESR, and Linus shouting from the rooftops we would have seven odd million users too.=20 =09I think FreeBSD needs a stronger user base. This need isn't =20 immediately imperative, but it's there. Linux has the strongest user base of any OS I know of. There are a thousand web sites run by Linux fanatics= =20 for Linux fanatics, and each is getting a couple hundred thousand hits per day. When a new FreeBSD release gets put up on cdrom.com, they don't break the world record for amount of data transferred in one day by a public FTP server. Yes, it is a triumph for FreeBSD to hold that record, but all those people were downloading Linux. =20 =09The only way we are going to get the users, press, and acceptance Linux is getting and will continue to get is if we attract it. Right now, we don't. Linux was started as an underdog, and is still viewed that as the messianic OS given to the internet to fight the evils of Microsoft and all things stodgy or restrictive. It is seen as a core aspect of open source, and it seems this way not only the the press but also to the potential new Unix user. Linux is seen as the one true path. FreeBSD is viewed as a peripheral aspect of the GNU/Linux open source movement.=20 =09I think that in ten years, Linux will be going strong and FreeBSD will have whithered. I don't think this is because FreeBSD is technically flawed, or that the core team and developers aren't doing a good enough job. I think this because in the end FreeBSD is going to lose to Linux if only from the sheer momentum of twenty million rabid Linux fanatics. And realistically, we aren't doing a damn thing about it.= =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >=20 >=20 =09-Spike Gronim =09 sporkl@ix.netcom.com=09 =09 Finger gronimw@shell.stuy.edu for PGP public key. =09=09The majority only rules those who let them.=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 18:44: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8146515217 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12825 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3751E95B.D057277B@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:43:55 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Lic. Jose Maria Herrera wrote: > > > Please send me just one pill. > > > > wtf? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Medical Center Online > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 9:15 AM > > Subject: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE > > > > > > > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter > > Please, if you feel the need to comment on a really annoying spam (which > I can understand, this one's gross), then DON'T resend the entire spam, > just the minimum it takes to identify it to others. You're respamming > the list yourself. My FreeBSD system crashed last night. Will this pill help get it up? ;^) You should also be smart enough to trim the original sender from the line. If you reply to their message, they have your email address and can now spam you directly. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 19:12:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01DD14C49 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA04473; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:12:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:12:16 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990530191216.A3024@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 06:11:51PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 06:11:51PM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > If you are running 3.1 or later, or -current, you _are_ using PAM. > Login uses it automatically, and it's not something you enable or > disable. If you don't have a valid /etc/pam.conf file then login > issues loud and repeated complaints to syslog, which will appear on > the system console. Right, that happens. > There is no file /usr/src/pam.conf. Do you mean > /usr/src/etc/pam.conf? Yes. > I don't know what's going on with your system, but something is messed > up. Maybe you're trying to mix and match a.out and ELF files. Try > running "file" on /usr/bin/login as well as your libpam and pam > modules. They are all ELF, installed from this week's buildworld. Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 19:18:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5663E14C0D for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA71169; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905310218.TAA71169@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alan Cox Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pipe race References: <19990530152238.A81441@nonpc.cs.rice.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ouch. Definite problems in both the reader and the writer. The writer calculates the writable space before locking, so if you have two simultanious writers where one blocks in uiomove(), both try to write to the same buffer area. *plus* the counters get screwed up (and would probably lead to a crash) The reader has the same problem. If the writer is blocked or switches out of uiomove(), it can get confused if the reader attempts to reset its buffer pointers at the same time ( prior to the write completing ): if ((rpipe->pipe_busy == 0) && (rpipe->pipe_state & PIPE_WANT)) { ( this condition may not occur because the writer could be blocked or switched in uiomove(), so PIPE_WANT will not be set ) rpipe->pipe_state &= ~(PIPE_WANT|PIPE_WANTW); wakeup(rpipe); } else if (rpipe->pipe_buffer.cnt < MINPIPESIZE) { /* * If there is no more to read in the pipe, reset * its pointers to the beginning. This improves * cache hit stats. */ if (rpipe->pipe_buffer.cnt == 0) { if ((error == 0) && (error = pipelock(rpipe,1)) == 0) { rpipe->pipe_buffer.in = 0; rpipe->pipe_buffer.out = 0; pipeunlock(rpipe); } } The writer can also get confused if it tries to resize the buffer. It calculates whether to resize the buffer prior to locking, then resizes the buffer without rechecking the calculations. I should have patches soon. I believe the reader-resetting-buffer-pointers problem is what caused my friend's data corruption. -Matt :I took a look at the pipe code this morning. Whether or not this is :the cause of your problem, I don't know, but there sure are snippets :of code that set off alarms in my head, e.g., : :from pipe_read: : : /* : * normal pipe buffer receive : */ : if (rpipe->pipe_buffer.cnt > 0) { : size = rpipe->pipe_buffer.size - rpipe->pipe_buffer.out; : if (size > rpipe->pipe_buffer.cnt) : size = rpipe->pipe_buffer.cnt; : if (size > (u_int) uio->uio_resid) : size = (u_int) uio->uio_resid; : if ((error = pipelock(rpipe,1)) == 0) { : error = uiomove( &rpipe->pipe_buffer.buffer[rpipe->pipe_buffer.out], : size, uio); : pipeunlock(rpipe); : } : :Suppose you block in pipelock. Who's to say the "size" is still :valid when you wake up? : Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 19:44:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (dyn1-tnt13-236.chicago.il.ameritech.net [199.179.183.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5CF14DDF for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA00764 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:44:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:44:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pfizer VIAGRA(tm) - FOR AS LITTLE AS $6 PER DOSE In-Reply-To: <3751E95B.D057277B@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > http://www.smartsurf.net/clients/medicalcenter Instead of polluting the mailing list with this, will everyone just drop a note to abuse@verio.net to complain about this instead of repeating the spam over and over ? If I was the spammer, I would be ectastic to find that my spam had been repeated over and over on mailing lists. Talk about frequency. :-( And now back to our regularly scheduled program, The Larch. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 19:54:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2266B14DDF for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28926; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199905310249.TAA28926@mag.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kernel config script To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905310015.RAA12765@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at May 30, 99 05:15:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Making such a script is specifically targetted at a small group of > users; those accustomed to the Linux way of doing things and too > inflexible or untalented to learn a new way. The Linux way of doing things isn't terribly different than any other Unix based OS out there. I don't really understand this wierd anti-Linix stuff from the FreeBSD folks. bill > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 20: 7:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09FA314F51 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:07:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 21241 invoked from network); 31 May 1999 03:07:09 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 31 May 1999 03:07:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Mike Smith Cc: Dennis , Bill Paul , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199905302150.OAA12070@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It is kind of interesting that now the shoe is on the other foot... A few months ago I purchased some sync cards from ET, and had some (and am still having) trouble getting them to work consistently. When I emailed their support dept for help, I got a few curt non-helpful replies, then a message about how if I didn't understand every nuance of HDLC, and couldn't read the debugging output of his cards/software, then I was (my interpratation, not his words exactly) not worth of his effort, nor his company's products. I have offered access to the boxes for the trivially repeatable problem I am having, in order so that he can improve his product, but the answer so far is "Try a new version of the software". The shotgun approach to tech support. It is no wonder that he does not invest effort in helping the 3com driver work better, he is unwilling to work with a customer with a significant dollar amount invested in his boards make *his* product better, why would he be worried about improving others product, he has little interest in improving his own. Which is too bad, because when it works, it (the ET board) works just great. When it doesn't, don't ask ET for help. What you get is a lot of talking down, what you don't get is real help. On Sun, 30 May 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > >> I have no stake in 3com cards (they are > > >> problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my > > >> problem. > > > > > >It *is* your problem. Supposing you can't get Intel cards anymore. > > >Then what're you going to do. > > > > Use something else that works. If none of them work then FreeBSD is no > > longer a viable option. > > This is the core fallacy; you should restate this as: > > "If none of them work, then FreeBSD is no longer a viable option > because it will require me to do some work to help fix them". > > I'm sorry; the FreeBSD Project is dedicated to developing operating > system code, not wiping your ass. You've received abundant offers of > assistance requiring no more than minimal effort on your part, and > turned them all down. This kind of selfish laziness is something we > can all do without. > > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 20:20: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2B014CE1 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA10937; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:19:55 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Bill Huey Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script Message-ID: <19990530201955.A10850@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <199905310015.RAA12765@dingo.cdrom.com> <199905310249.TAA28926@mag.ucsd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905310249.TAA28926@mag.ucsd.edu>; from Bill Huey on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 07:49:24PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 07:49:24PM -0700, Bill Huey wrote: > The Linux way of doing things isn't terribly different than any other > Unix based OS out there. I don't really understand this wierd anti-Linix > stuff from the FreeBSD folks. Context. When people complain about Linux users expecting everything to work like Linux, then it's usually safe to assume that the behavior in question *does* vary between Linux and other Unix systems, or at lease Linux and FreeBSD. If a Linux user expects ls(1) to list files, that's cool. If he expects ls(1) to have pretty colors, that's not. If a Linux user expects to be able to configure his kernel, that's cool. If he expects it to work the same way as Linux, interrogation-style, that's not. If a Linux user expects to be able to use bash as his shell, that's cool. If he thinks something's wrong when /bin/bash isn't present on a fresh system, that's not. If a Linux user expects to see his routes, that's cool. If he expects to use route(8) instead of netstat(1), that's not. In other words, it's when people want every kind of Unix to behave just like Linux that the hollering begins. -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 20:23: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E5C14CD5 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA73866; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:21:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Chris D. Faulhaber" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Chris D. Faulhaber wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 1999, John Birrell wrote: > > > Why build a kernel at all? The generic kernel should do that application > > just fine. Only build a custom kernel if you have a good reason to do > > so. > > > > I somewhat agree. A custom kernel is useful for setting up and tuning > parameters (e.g. softupdates); however, unlike Linux, we don't have a new > kernel every week to reconfigure. You guys should be aware that work is going on to change, in a rather major way, not just the config file, not just the configuration method, but the entire way that devices are detected and drivers added. There will be entirely new levels of control available. Thats the reason that no one involved with current is willing to do anything to help the present system ... compared to what's coming down the pike, the existing one is truly badly broken, and beyond any simple fix. Be patient, guys, *great* things are in store, probably in the next 6 months. Some is visible today (much, actually, has gone in, the last 2 months). Of this, most is invisible necessary infrastructure, so don't go looking for visible effects yet, excepting the new boot system. Mike is one of the guy architecting this, so that's the reason he's not willing to help you guys on what you're talking about. It would only be enshrining a broken system. We need to have some stuff from current summarized somewhere. Then, you guys wouldn't get caught so completely unaware of things. > > ----- > Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never > System/Network Administrator | claimed they were one, and always > Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 20:24:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.talcom.net (unknown [209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7EB14CD5 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leo@homer.talcom.net) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.talcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA18502 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:27:55 -0400 From: Leo Papandreou To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script Message-ID: <19990530232755.B18202@homer.talcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Spike on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 09:28:43PM -0400 X-No-Archive: Yes X-Organization: Not very, no. X-Wife: Forgotten but not gone. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 09:28:43PM -0400, Spike wrote: [...] > I think that in ten years, Linux will be going strong and FreeBSD > will have whithered. I don't think this is because FreeBSD is This ignores the fact that FreeBSD is growing and doing so in part because of a migration of unhappy Linux users. > technically flawed, or that the core team and developers aren't doing > a good enough job. I think this because in the end FreeBSD is going to > lose to Linux if only from the sheer momentum of twenty million rabid > Linux fanatics. And realistically, we aren't doing a damn thing about it. > 100 million Windows users isnt enough quell Linux. 20 million Linux users isnt going to do likewise to FreeBSD. FreeBSD will die when and if something better comes along. Maybe. Meanwhile, since there are no financial imperatives to kill an openly sourced OS, we can continue to expect knowledgeable admins and programmers to keep FreeBSD very much alive. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 21:20:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6720B14D08 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13054 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37520E0C.BFC19970@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:20:28 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Spike wrote: > > I think that in ten years, Linux will be going strong and FreeBSD > will have whithered. I don't think this is because FreeBSD is > technically flawed, or that the core team and developers aren't doing > a good enough job. I think this because in the end FreeBSD is going to > lose to Linux if only from the sheer momentum of twenty million rabid > Linux fanatics. And realistically, we aren't doing a damn thing about it. You're wrong, if for no other reason than because *I* will still be using FreeBSD. You, like so many others here, seem to think that FreeBSD is somehow in a competition with Linux for users. This is not so. As I have said before, let Linux teach them some of what UNIX is about, and the ones that are smart enough and interested enough to look further will find FreeBSD. The rest of them, we really don't need. If you want to write a kernel configuration program, write one. Writing it as a shell script is NOT going to satisfy the legions of clueless Linux users who are used to clicking their way through YET ANOTHER butt-ugly box full of buttons Linux luser program for configuration the kernel du jour, so be sure to plan how you're going to make an X application, too. My suggestion is learn a bit about Tck/Tk. Now, can we end this stupid bleating? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 21:33:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BBF14FD3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29154; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:28:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199905310428.VAA29154@mag.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kernel config script To: mph@astro.caltech.edu (Matthew Hunt) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: billh@mag.ucsd.edu (Bill Huey), hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990530201955.A10850@wopr.caltech.edu> from "Matthew Hunt" at May 30, 99 08:19:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Context. When people complain about Linux users expecting everything > to work like Linux, then it's usually safe to assume that the behavior > in question *does* vary between Linux and other Unix systems, or at > lease Linux and FreeBSD. Possibly, but the thing that bothers me is that I've heard more derogatory comments directed against Linux user on this list than I have seen come from Microsoft. That's fundamentally disturbing especially coming from other fellow Unix variant folks. > Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property > http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 21:59:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA24E155D6 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:59:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 71003 invoked from network); 31 May 1999 06:00:13 -0000 Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.41) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 31 May 1999 06:00:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-2.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA35969; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:59:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-2.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:59:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Bill Huey Cc: Matthew Hunt , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905310428.VAA29154@mag.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bill Huey wrote: > That's fundamentally disturbing especially coming from other fellow > Unix variant folks. > Inter-UNIX rivalries are one of things that has kept unix healthy for so long. Linux tends to pick up most of the 3L1t3 dudez, who don't know anything but how to follow a How-To. I don't have a problem with letting someone else deal with annoying lusers. When they get a clue, and realize that FreeBSD has substantial advantages over Linux, then we can deal with them. It would be nice if there were some migration documentation. (And yes, that *is* an offer. Who do I talk to?) Someone used to have a .sig that summed the difference between Linux and *BSD pretty nicely: "Linux is for people that hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who love Unix." David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 22:13:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F90A14C49 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13763; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:36:08 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199905310506.OAA13763@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: Kernel config script To: dscheidt@enteract.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:36:08 +0930 (CST) Cc: billh@mag.ucsd.edu, mph@astro.caltech.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David Scheidt" at May 30, 99 11:59:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > "Linux is for people that hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who > love Unix." I like "Linux is Luke Skywalker; FreeBSD is Yoda." - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 22:37:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from schooner.svjava.com (schooner.svjava.com [204.75.228.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7012C14ED0 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kozowski@schooner.svjava.com) Received: (from kozowski@localhost) by schooner.svjava.com (8.9.1a/svjava.com) id WAA12615; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:35:49 -0700 From: Eric Kozowski To: Mark Newton Cc: David Scheidt , billh@mag.ucsd.edu, mph@astro.caltech.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: linux slogans (WAS: Re: Kernel config script) Message-ID: <19990530223548.N11254@haydenisland.verio.net> Mail-Followup-To: Mark Newton , David Scheidt , billh@mag.ucsd.edu, mph@astro.caltech.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199905310506.OAA13763@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905310506.OAA13763@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:36:08PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:36:08PM +0930, Mark Newton wrote: > David Scheidt wrote: > > > "Linux is for people that hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who > > love Unix." > > I like "Linux is Luke Skywalker; FreeBSD is Yoda." linux -- the operating system for kiddies, written by kiddies. -- randy@psg.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 23:34:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D8414BF3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA55132; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:04:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:04:50 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Chris Costello Cc: Brian Feldman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so_cred changes Message-ID: <19990530230449.A54778@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990530130336.E1297@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990530130336.E1297@holly.dyndns.org>; from Chris Costello on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:03:36PM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:03:36PM -0500, Chris Costello wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 1999, Brian Feldman wrote: > > Anyone for committing the so_cred changes? I've got the the pidentd changes > > here, too. > > I have also produced a patch against > doc/en/handbook/ports/chapter.sgml for this bump-up in the > version macro. Cheers, committed. N -- The trial continues tomorrow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 23:36:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C356214BF3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10oLfm-0008dk-00; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:35:46 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "stan@osgroup.com" , David Scheidt , fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:31 EST." <01BEAAC8.445E89A0.stan@osgroup.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:35:46 +0200 Message-ID: <33215.928132546@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:31 EST, Constantine Shkolnyy wrote: > You don't want FreeBSD to have more users? [...] > Making the script is like making more documentation. Is the current > FreeBSD documentation so plentiful that making more documentation would > harm somebody? This issue is much simpler than this thread might thus far have lead you to believe. The people who bring this issue up never seem to be possessed of both the inclination and abililty to do the work. In this context, the triviality of the work involved speaks volumes about its value _and_ intended audience. Think about it. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 23:44:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C484F14BF3 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA49465 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:44:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sio driver and select puzzle. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The following code is SUPPOSED to return to me when a character is available for reading.. but it doesn't. any one care to point out the obvious bug? main() { int filedes; struct termios newterm; struct termios oldterm; int child; int retval; struct perchild *cp; int sel_nfds; filedes = open("/dev/cuaa1", O_RDWR, 0); if (filedes == -1) err(1,"cant open cuaa1"); retval = tcgetattr(filedes, &oldterm); if ( retval == -1) err(1, " can't get termios"); newterm = oldterm; newterm.c_cflag = CLOCAL | CREAD | CS8; newterm.c_oflag = OPOST | ONLCR; newterm.c_iflag = 0; newterm.c_lflag = 0; newterm.c_ispeed = B57600; newterm.c_ospeed = B57600; newterm.c_cc[VMIN] = 1; newterm.c_cc[VTIME] = 0; retval = tcsetattr(filedes, TCSAFLUSH, &newterm); if ( retval == -1) err(1, " can't set termios"); /* * get role */ for(;;) { sprintf(linebuf2, "%20s\n","1= test, 2=target"); write(filedes, linebuf2, strlen(linebuf2)); sprintf(linebuf2, "%20s\n","9= quit and reboot"); write(filedes, linebuf2, strlen(linebuf2)); sel_nfds = 0; FD_ZERO(&read_set); FD_SET( filedes, &read_set); if (filedes > sel_nfds) sel_nfds = filedes; printf("select called %d\n",sel_nfds); sel_nfds = select(sel_nfds, &read_set, NULL, NULL, NULL); printf("select returned %d\n",sel_nfds); [...] the program gets to "select called %d" but when I send a character down the line it doesn't return from the select. this is in 3.1 (approximatly) If I comment out the select, the read that follows it (not shown) does get the character. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 30 23:58:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C5314CFE for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA49749; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:58:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer Reply-To: Julian Elischer To: John Birrell Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: (Solved)Re: sio driver and select puzzle. In-Reply-To: <199905310705.RAA29652@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ah yes, I knew that :-) just testing you (cough) You would't believe the time I wasted on this today. On Mon, 31 May 1999, John Birrell wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > write(filedes, linebuf2, strlen(linebuf2)); > > sel_nfds = 0; > > FD_ZERO(&read_set); > > FD_SET( filedes, &read_set); > > if (filedes > sel_nfds) > > sel_nfds = filedes; > > sel_nfds = filedes + 1; > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 0:19:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D580B14FBF for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 00:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@mail.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mail.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA83305; Mon, 31 May 1999 17:21:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199905310721.RAA83305@mail.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: from Spike at "May 30, 1999 9:28:43 pm" To: sporkl@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 17:21:48 +1000 (EST) Cc: fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Spike ]--------------------------------------------- | | a good enough job. I think this because in the end FreeBSD is going to | lose to Linux if only from the sheer momentum of twenty million rabid | Linux fanatics. And realistically, we aren't doing a damn thing about it. Technical discussions aside, I think that in reality, that it's that fanaticism that will be Linux' undoing. There are already reports of people switching from Linux to something else, because they got flamed/mail bombed/etc for daring to do/try/mention something else. It's not easy for any commercial vendor to work in that type of environment. I think some of FreeBSD's long term strengths are that it is centralised, and a willingness (from the userbase) to work with vendors to get applications ported. The rabid zealots of the church of GNU are not likely to want to *pay* for commercial applications on their free OS. It is not going to take long for vendors to realise this. The FreeBSD community seems (to me) to be more commerically oriented, and friendlier to commercial entities and even to 'competitors'. One success story is all it will take to get other vendors interested -- vendors don't really care about technically superiority, they want 'untapped markets.' -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 1:29:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BDA14F35 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 01:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id DAA10969; Mon, 31 May 1999 03:29:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199905310829.DAA10969@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. In-Reply-To: <199905290846.BAA29926@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "May 29, 1999 1:46:44 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 03:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A friend of mine upgraded one of his machines to a duel-cpu > box and upgraded the OS to -STABLE, and he noticed that his > backups were being corrupted. The corruption appears to occur when > he transfers huge gzip'd tar files over a 100BaseTX network: > > I believe that the problem is situated in the pipe device driver. While I really doubt that this is related, I discovered today that I'm able to repeatably lock up my -current machine with: find /home -print | afio -T 3k -G 6 -Z -z -v -o - | tee /scratch/backup.afio >/dev/rsa0 It runs for about 5 minutes, then hangs completely. Removing the tee and writing to either of them doesn't cause a hang. Running two afio's with run going to the file and one going to tape doesn't cause a hang. When it locks up, it's doing it pretty solidly. (no ddb, no keyboard echo, etc). I haven't ruled out hardware issues yet though, but it looks slightly pipe related. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 2: 7:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E4C14C2B for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 02:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip78.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.78]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F86E37082; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA06878; Mon, 31 May 1999 04:07:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 04:07:12 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Nik Clayton Cc: Brian Feldman , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so_cred changes Message-ID: <19990531040711.F1297@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990530130336.E1297@holly.dyndns.org> <19990530230449.A54778@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: <19990530230449.A54778@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:04:50PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > Cheers, committed. Already? As the CVS tree (at least the one on anoncvs.freebsd.org) has it, the so_cred changes haven't been committed yet. -- Chris Costello Exclusive: We're the only ones who have the documentation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 3: 2:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.raditex.se (raditex.thorsen.se [193.14.93.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA8E1503D; Mon, 31 May 1999 03:02:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaj@raditex.se) Received: from localhost (dialup162-4-1.swipnet.se [130.244.162.193]) by ns.raditex.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16777; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:01:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kaj@raditex.se) To: witr@rwwa.com Cc: dlombardo@excite.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Rasmus Kaj Subject: Re: a two-level port system? From: Rasmus Kaj In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 11:29:22 -0400" <199905301529.LAA25749@spooky.rwwa.com> References: <199905301529.LAA25749@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) X-URL: http://www.e.kth.se/~kaj/ X-Phone: +46 (0)8 - 694 92 80 X-Attribution: Kaj X-Face: M9cR~WYav<"fu%MaslX0`43PAYY?uIsM8[#E(0\Xuy9rj>4gE\h3jm.7DD?]R8*^7T\o&vT U@[53Dwkuup4[0@gw#~kyu>`unH?kVj9CJa02(h>Ki\+i=%rn%sDf^KC.!?IHkKjMAbkd\jgmphp^' d|Q;OeXEAhq?ybGqOs1CHb6TJT42'C`Krnk61//AOfXtNjj/t'`5>Vw0QX!dKfOL$.f+S"LIuwR<;I Z0Qnnx(F^F]o@*V%TUtEV'1Z[TkOl^FFV9Z~A[b19%}uP*,huCU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990531120353N.kaj@raditex.se> Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:03:53 +0200 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 46 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "RW" == Robert Withrow writes: RW> Alternatively, is it possible to have the port tree be essentially RW> empty (perhaps just the makefile and category directories) and then RW> just have it fetch the makefiles and make the directories on demand, for RW> the individal ports? May I suggest not going quite so long? Summary: For each port, keep Makefile, pkg/* and md5, move everything else (patches, files (other than md5), and scripts) elsewhere. Rationale for moving stuff elsewhere In my (recently updated) copy of /usr/ports there is 4819 files in */*/patches and 775 files other than md5 in */*/files. Scripts is another 270 directories containing 522 files. Moving this files to the ftp sites would not only mean >6000 less files to cvsup, but also >4300 less directories (assuming files/md5 could be moved to pkg/ or the port directory). Rationale for keeping Makefile and pkg/* This makes it possible to see what a port is for before starting to build it or download stuff. Also, this makes it possible to make readmes for the entire ports collection whithout getting "the extra stuff". On the other hand This would probably make it harder to submit and commit ports, since things would have to be commited to separate places, and the makefile would need to explicitly list patches and other files rahter than having them 'autodetected'. Comments, anyone? -- Rasmus Kaj ---------------- rasmus@kaj.a.se - http://www.e.kth.se/~kaj/ \ Im sorry if the correct way of doing things offends you \--------------------------------------------- http://www.Raditex.se/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 3:17: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C1B14DA4; Mon, 31 May 1999 03:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: from localhost (taavi@localhost) by ns.uninet.ee (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01455; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:15:20 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:15:20 +0300 (EEST) From: Taavi Talvik To: Rasmus Kaj Cc: witr@rwwa.com, dlombardo@excite.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? In-Reply-To: <19990531120353N.kaj@raditex.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Rasmus Kaj wrote: > RW> Alternatively, is it possible to have the port tree be essentially > RW> empty (perhaps just the makefile and category directories) and then > RW> just have it fetch the makefiles and make the directories on demand, for > RW> the individal ports? > Rationale for moving stuff elsewhere > > In my (recently updated) copy of /usr/ports there is 4819 files in > */*/patches and 775 files other than md5 in */*/files. Scripts is > another 270 directories containing 522 files. > > Moving this files to the ftp sites would not only mean >6000 less > files to cvsup, but also >4300 less directories (assuming files/md5 > could be moved to pkg/ or the port directory). > > Comments, anyone? Moving these files to ftp requires good automatic means to keep ftp servers updated. However as of today there are no such means available. CVSup is definitely easiest way to keep well defined collection of files up to date. best regards, taavi ----------------------------------------------------------- Taavi Talvik | Internet: taavi@uninet.ee Unineti Andmeside AS | phone: +372 6405150 Ravala pst. 10-412 | fax: +372 6405151 EE0001, Tallinn, Estonia | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 4: 2:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3709D14D71; Mon, 31 May 1999 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A58D918D4; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:02:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFAA49D3; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:02:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:02:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Taavi Talvik Cc: Rasmus Kaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Taavi Talvik wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Rasmus Kaj wrote: > > > RW> Alternatively, is it possible to have the port tree be essentially > > RW> empty (perhaps just the makefile and category directories) and then > > RW> just have it fetch the makefiles and make the directories on demand, for > > RW> the individal ports? > > Rationale for moving stuff elsewhere > > > > In my (recently updated) copy of /usr/ports there is 4819 files in > > */*/patches and 775 files other than md5 in */*/files. Scripts is > > another 270 directories containing 522 files. > > > > Moving this files to the ftp sites would not only mean >6000 less > > files to cvsup, but also >4300 less directories (assuming files/md5 > > could be moved to pkg/ or the port directory). > > > > Comments, anyone? > > Moving these files to ftp requires good automatic means to keep > ftp servers updated. However as of today there are no such means > available. > > CVSup is definitely easiest way to keep well defined collection > of files up to date. Folks, how about _admitting_ finally that our ports collection is a database? We wouldn't need anything else than standard system tools to maintain a ports.db file containing all that we want as DB records. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 4:28:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from janus.syracuse.net (janus.syracuse.net [205.232.47.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5655B14D25 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 04:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@unixhelp.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by janus.syracuse.net (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29362; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:27:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Feldman X-Sender: green@janus.syracuse.net To: Chris Costello Cc: Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so_cred changes In-Reply-To: <19990531040711.F1297@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > > Cheers, committed. > > Already? As the CVS tree (at least the one on > anoncvs.freebsd.org) has it, the so_cred changes haven't been > committed yet. *Laugh* I think that the doc was the only thing that was committed. > > -- > Chris Costello > Exclusive: We're the only ones who have the documentation. > Brian Feldman _ __ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ green@unixhelp.org _ __ ___ | _ ) __| \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! _ __ | _ \ _ \ |) | http://www.freebsd.org _ |___)___/___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 5: 5:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4F514E66; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id OAA03056; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:05:21 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:05:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Moving these files to ftp requires good automatic means to keep > > ftp servers updated. However as of today there are no such means > > available. > > > > CVSup is definitely easiest way to keep well defined collection > > of files up to date. > > Folks, how about _admitting_ finally that our ports collection is a > database? We wouldn't need anything else than standard system tools to > maintain a ports.db file containing all that we want as DB records. Some thoughts: 1) Cvsupping the while database on every change or writing YAT (Yet Another Tool) to do this properly 2) Keeping things like Makefiles, descriptions, patches in a database 3) making it a binary file instead of Human Readable ASCII IMHO we'd end with something as silly as an OO database. Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 5:20: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE90D14E66 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 20111 invoked by uid 1001); 31 May 1999 12:19:54 -0000 To: joelh@gnu.org (Joel Ray Holveck) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS tuning (Was: File system gets too fragmented ???) References: <199905271415.HAA10721@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <86lne8h3gj.fsf@detlev.UUCP> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 31 May 1999 15:17:51 +0300 In-Reply-To: joelh@gnu.org's message of "29 May 1999 08:05:16 +0300" Message-ID: <86pv3hph5c.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG joelh@gnu.org (Joel Ray Holveck) writes: > As we all know, tunefs -o space will hurt write performance. Will it > hurt read performance? If I don't care about install-time speed, but > do care about run-time speed and free space, should I populate my > filesystems at install time with space tuning? -o space should have very little effect install-time. The space vs. time optimization parameter only has any effect when files are extended by small amounts (the fragment at the end is reallocated). This seldom happens for most files. Log files and interactively edited files are probably (just guessing) most likely to make use of fragment reallocations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 5:20:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C69C152CA; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:23:13 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617962F@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Nick Hibma' , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a two-level port system? (fwd) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:18:01 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hibma [SMTP:nick.hibma@jrc.it] > Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 2:05 PM > To: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) > > > Folks, how about _admitting_ finally that our ports collection is a > > database? We wouldn't need anything else than standard system tools > to > > maintain a ports.db file containing all that we want as DB records. > > Some thoughts: > > 1) Cvsupping the while database on every change or writing YAT (Yet > Another Tool) to do this properly > 2) Keeping things like Makefiles, descriptions, patches in a database > 3) making it a binary file instead of Human Readable ASCII > [ML] Well, I'll try to make a proof of concept tonight with a flatfile database not unlike the normal diff over several files. The result will be an ascii file which you could diff against and transfer only the diffs. Basically the format will be graphics graphics/gimp graphics/gimp/Makefile It will be trivial to expand it into directories in order to build ports, and compact directories into the file once the port has been added/updated. Advantages: 1) the file behaves like any other source file as far as CVS and CVSup is concerned: one stores and transfers diffs only 2) shar does it (and this will not be much different) 3) well, it is ascii :) /Marino > IMHO we'd end with something as silly as an OO database. > > Nick > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 5:38:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1F815135; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: from localhost (taavi@localhost) by ns.uninet.ee (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22007; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:37:49 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:37:49 +0300 (EEST) From: Taavi Talvik To: Ladavac Marino Cc: "'Nick Hibma'" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C110027617962F@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Ladavac Marino wrote: Disadvantage: With one big file it is next to impossible to build version 1.1.1 of one port and 1.1.2 of another. With current model i can check out specific branch for all files/ports separately. best regards, taavi > Basically the format will be > graphics > graphics/gimp > graphics/gimp/Makefile > > > > It will be trivial to expand it into directories in order to > build ports, and compact directories into the file once the port has > been added/updated. > > Advantages: > 1) the file behaves like any other source file as far as CVS and > CVSup is concerned: one stores and transfers diffs only > 2) shar does it (and this will not be much different) > 3) well, it is ascii :) ----------------------------------------------------------- Taavi Talvik | Internet: taavi@uninet.ee Unineti Andmeside AS | phone: +372 6405150 Ravala pst. 10-412 | fax: +372 6405151 EE0001, Tallinn, Estonia | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 5:46:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4836F14E05; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:48:59 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179630@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Taavi Talvik' , Ladavac Marino Cc: 'Nick Hibma' , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a two-level port system? (fwd) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:43:49 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Taavi Talvik [SMTP:taavi@uninet.ee] > Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 2:38 PM > To: Ladavac Marino > Cc: 'Nick Hibma'; freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG; > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: a two-level port system? (fwd) > > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Ladavac Marino wrote: > > Disadvantage: > > With one big file it is next to impossible to build version 1.1.1 of > one > port and 1.1.2 of another. > > With current model i can check out specific branch for > all files/ports separately. > [ML] You have a point there :) Of course, you could check out the 1.1.1 version of the big file, build your port, and then the 1.1.2 version of the big file, build the other one, but this would be probably rather slow--some testing will be needed. Another possibility is one file per port, thus keeping the stuff in more manageable chunks. For this I don't even have to write anything--shar will do (something better than shar, something that keeps the file entries alphabetized and thus guarantees minimal diffs would be good, though). I hope we all agree that a reduction in file/directory count is desirable. [ML] /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 6: 6: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CFB91501B; Mon, 31 May 1999 06:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA18732; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:39:03 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905311039.MAA18732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) To: mladavac@metropolitan.at (Ladavac Marino) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:39:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: taavi@uninet.ee, mladavac@metropolitan.at, nick.hibma@jrc.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179630@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> from "Ladavac Marino" at May 31, 99 02:43:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2466 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > With one big file it is next to impossible to build version 1.1.1 of > > one > > port and 1.1.2 of another. > > > > With current model i can check out specific branch for > > all files/ports separately. > > > [ML] You have a point there :) > Of course, you could check out the 1.1.1 version of the big > file, build your port, and then the 1.1.2 version of the big file, build > the other one, but this would be probably rather slow--some testing will > be needed. > > Another possibility is one file per port, thus keeping the stuff > in more manageable chunks. For this I don't even have to write > anything--shar will do (something better than shar, something that keeps > the file entries alphabetized and thus guarantees minimal diffs would be > good, though). > > I hope we all agree that a reduction in file/directory count is > desirable. in fact i think the biggest problem, performancewise, is the presence of multiple subdirs per port. I'd be happy if we could build a backward compatible method that (in order of importance) 1) allows short "files" such as those in pkg/ (with perhaps the exception of PLIST and files/md5 for other reasons) to be stored as Makefile variables instead of external files (the backward mechanism would be to look at the file if a matching name is not found;). pkg/PLIST and files/md5, if really needed, could be moved to the main directory. This would remove one dir (pkg/) plus 3-4 files in 100% of the ports, plus another dir (files/) in perhaps 90% of the cases. 2) keeps patches in the main directory instead of a separate subdir. 3) pieces from files/ are also moved into the main directory with an adequate prefix (e.g. new-foo.c) to be stripped at install time (it is my understanding that in most cases the copy from files/ to the right place is done by explicit commands in the Makefile, right ?) This is trickier and maybe not worthwhile... comments ? luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 6: 6:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from r84aap011262.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (r84aap011262.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com [209.6.194.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A923154CF for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 06:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from huff@r84aap011262.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) Received: (from huff@localhost) by r84aap011262.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA67921; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:07:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from huff) From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:07:41 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <23649517@toto.iv> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14162.35022.502546.522089@r84aap011262.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris D. Faulhaber writes: > I somewhat agree. A custom kernel is useful for setting up and > tuning parameters (e.g. softupdates); however, unlike Linux, we > don't have a new kernel every week to reconfigure. How often _do_ people rebuild their kernels? (On non-testing machines.) I rebuild/reinstall every two weeks, plus or minus a day or two. (And, for the record, I notice a non-trivial speed jump going from a generic to a custom kernel.) Robert Huff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 6:18:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5445114F09 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 21875 invoked by uid 1001); 31 May 1999 13:18:00 -0000 To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: question about vnode and inode locking References: From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 31 May 1999 16:15:57 +0300 In-Reply-To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu's message of "30 May 1999 21:51:55 +0300" Message-ID: <86ogj1pegi.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) writes: > It seems to me that we can lock at the vnode layer AND at the inode layer. No, the inode lock is, in most cases, the vnode layer lock. It isn't obvious because the code assumes that any filesystem using vop_stdlock has a 'struct lock' as the first entry of the internal data pointed to by v_data. Very ugly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 6:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA52C14F09; Mon, 31 May 1999 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:27:45 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179631@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Luigi Rizzo' Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a two-level port system? (fwd) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:22:33 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Luigi Rizzo [SMTP:luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it] > Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 12:39 PM > To: mladavac@metropolitan.at > Cc: taavi@uninet.ee; mladavac@metropolitan.at; nick.hibma@jrc.it; > freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) > > in fact i think the biggest problem, performancewise, is the presence > of multiple subdirs per port. > I'd be happy if we could build a backward compatible method that (in > order of importance) > [ML] [worthwile suggestions deleted] > comments ? [ML] This would offer an advantage over the existing system only if all ports are updated to the new schema, which is a lot of work. shar approach could be easily mechanised, and requires no changes in the makefiles or the ports themselves. OTOH, shar offers no advantages to the folks who build all ports (or most of them) because they end up creating all directories anyway. I think Satoshi is the only such person :) /Marino > luigi > -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- > --- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA > (Italy) > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ > ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication > ==== > -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- > --- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 6:53:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7DA14BF1; Mon, 31 May 1999 06:53:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07622; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:53:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA56022; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:53:07 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:53:05 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: Taavi Talvik , Rasmus Kaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531155305.A55875@bitbox.follo.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:02:50PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:02:50PM +0200, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Folks, how about _admitting_ finally that our ports collection is a > database? We wouldn't need anything else than standard system tools to > maintain a ports.db file containing all that we want as DB records. Rule #1: Any change to the ports collection must not make it harder for the ports committers to keep the ports collection up to date. Rule #2: Any change to the ports collection must not make it harder for people to help out with the ports collection. Rule #3,4, and 5: Read rules #1 and 2 again. Rule #6: It is nice (but not essensial) if the ports become faster and/or smaller than today. Rule #7,8,9, and 10: Read rules #1 and 2 again, and understand their impact. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 7:12:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C565914E50; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:12:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA00982; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:11:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca41-214.ix.netcom.com(209.111.208.214) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000927; Mon May 31 09:11:18 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.2/8.6.9) id HAA51369; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: mladavac@metropolitan.at Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179631@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> (message from Ladavac Marino on Mon, 31 May 1999 15:22:33 +0200) Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179631@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * From: Ladavac Marino I don't really have time to butt in (I have to hop on a plane in a few hours and I haven't finished the presentation slides) but I'd like to throw in my two cents before this gets out of hand. * [ML] This would offer an advantage over the existing system * only if all ports are updated to the new schema, which is a lot of work. * shar approach could be easily mechanised, and requires no changes in the * makefiles or the ports themselves. OTOH, shar offers no advantages to * the folks who build all ports (or most of them) because they end up * creating all directories anyway. I think Satoshi is the only such * person :) I don't think that's really an issue. The question is, what is the problem you are trying to solve here? What are the requirements of the system? The requirements are: @ Easy to maintain. I have a tree checked out, I can go in there and type "make package", tweak the Makefile and type "make clean package", and type "cvs commit" when I'm done. A lot of committers work this way. Can you beat this? @ Version control. Can you check out an arbitrary version of any file? I want to do something like "give me the changes in Makefile between yesterday and today". @ Low on bandwidth. CVS combined with "individual files" approach is pretty darn efficient when it comes to not sending more than what changed. @ Easy to search. Does it let me grep something in all md5 files or all PLISTs? The current approach does this by letting the filesystem take care of the individual files. A shar file per port solution is just moving part of the problem from the kernel (filesystem) to userland (shar/unshar). Now, the problems are: @ It takes a long time to...what? cvsup the tree? That's already pretty fast. Read all files? Why do you want to read all files? It's more likely that you want to read all the Makefiles or all the md5 files or some such, which shar will slow down considerably. CVS update the entire tree? Ok, so that's pretty slow. But do people really do it often enough to hurt? @ It is large. Ok, so it's 44MB (the first poster had the size completely wrong -- probably had some distfiles or work/ subdirs lying around). That's less than 20KB per port. Ok, so you can keep only the Makefile, or even less, and let the network do the work for you whenever you type something. But does anybody have a system that has such a wonderful network connection but yet can't spare 44MB of disk space? It seems to me that you guys are arguing about a problem that doesn't really exist. Or at least all ideas proposed so far seem to hurt more than help. ;) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 7:27:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D6114BCC; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:27:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA18549; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:22:23 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA60016; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:22:23 +0700 (NSS) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:22:23 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! On Mon, 31 May 1999, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > @ Version control. Can you check out an arbitrary version of any > file? I want to do something like "give me the changes in > Makefile between yesterday and today". It's hard to check out the port for an arbitrary version of program. E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 /fjoe PS sorry, previous post was a bogus To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 7:28:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F5B1552D; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA18059; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:19:59 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA59952; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:19:59 +0700 (NSS) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:19:59 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! On Mon, 31 May 1999, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 7:32: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CFF0714E6A; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA19033; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:06:23 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199905311206.OAA19033@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:06:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> from "Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami" at May 31, 99 07:09:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1014 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, the problems are: > > @ It takes a long time to...what? cvsup the tree? That's already to install the port distribution. it's the slowest part of the install process. developers may not experience that, but all other users (who buy the cd) do. I am primarily concerned with that, and secondly with mainteinance issues when you have a new/updated port, you generally need to touch the Makefile and one or more files in pkg, and the info in pkg/* is often the same comments you would put at the beginning of the makefile. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/ ==== First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication ==== -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 7:38:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C2B114F40; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsi@mindspring.com) Received: from kamikaze.mindspring.com (user-2ive1s5.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.7.133]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19838; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by kamikaze.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA10485; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:42:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsi) Message-Id: <199905311442.KAA10485@kamikaze.mindspring.com> To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at (Ladavac Marino), taavi@uninet.ee, nick.hibma@jrc.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) References: <199905311039.MAA18732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: Rajappa Iyer Date: 31 May 1999 10:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: rajappa@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo writes: > in fact i think the biggest problem, performancewise, is the presence > of multiple subdirs per port. Well, if we are going to change the ports mechanism, may I suggest that we make it easy to create `foreign' packages? Let me explain. In an ideal world, I'd like to use cd /usr/ports/... make make package on any of the platforms that has a ported ports mechanism (i.e. BSD make and /usr/share/mk) in place. Thus, I could see living with a file directory structure as below: + | Makefile | md5 | +- FreeBSD | | PLIST | | patches-* | | DESCR etc. | +- SunOS | pkg-related files | patches-* etc. Now this doesn't reduce the overall file/directory count, but it does reduce the subdir count on each platform. Also, it gives the original author an incentive to use the ports mechanism for all platforms that s/he writes the package for. In an ideal world, it would reduce the burden of the ports maintainers and increase the number of packages available off the bat for FreeBSD. (Hey, one can hope, can't one?) This would also allow FreeBSD to share ports with {Net|Open}BSD. What do people think? rsi -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. New York, New York. We're too busy mopping the floor to turn off the faucet. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:19:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C9314BE5; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@mail.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mail.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA92145; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:21:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? In-Reply-To: <19990531155305.A55875@bitbox.follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "May 31, 1999 3:53: 5 pm" To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG (Eivind Eklund) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:21:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Eivind Eklund ]--------------------------------------------- | On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:02:50PM +0200, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: | > Folks, how about _admitting_ finally that our ports collection is a | > database? We wouldn't need anything else than standard system tools to | > maintain a ports.db file containing all that we want as DB records. | | Rule #1: Any change to the ports collection must not make it harder | for the ports committers to keep the ports collection up to date. | Rule #2: Any change to the ports collection must not make it harder | for people to help out with the ports collection. How about optionally tarring the 'files' and 'patches' subdirs (into seperate tarfiles or as one tarfile) to be extracted when the port is needed. This would make cvsupping ports 'harder' I would imagine, although not impossible, given the .uu files I've seen for /compat stuff recently. 'Harder' is an awkward word, it has too many meanings in this context. One meaning says that any extra exertion required rules out the change, one meaning says that extra complexity rules out the change. I'm not sure which one you mean or if you indeed mean both. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D77214CFE; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:26:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18367.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.47]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13662; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA12616; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:26:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:26:48 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Max Khon Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990531112648.A12515@mad> References: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Max Khon on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 09:22:23PM +0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 09:22:23PM +0700, Max Khon wrote: > > It's hard to check out the port for an arbitrary version of program. > E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 Well, samba was upgraded from 1.9.18p10 to 2.0.0 at Mon Jan 18 2:34:03 1999 UTC, so to checkout 1.9.18p10, $ cvs co -D "Mon Jan 18 1:34:03 1999 UTC" samba $ Actually, if you think about it a little, you'll notice that it becomes _harder_ to checkout a specific version of a port if the whole port is stored inside a single shar archive. [Consider: port import, port upgrade, port bugfix to patch-ac -- to checkout the original version of the port imported and include the bugfix to patch-ac is much harder if it's all shar'd up]. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:28:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 509A114CFE for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA04262; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:28:03 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905311528.LAA04262@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: maret@axis.de (Alexander Maret) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E43@erlangen01.axis.de> from "Alexander Maret" at May 31, 99 08:07:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4640 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Alexander Maret had to walk into mine and say: > Hi, > > > > If you have a real, detailed and accurate bug report to > > submit, then fine: > > let's hear it. But if you just want to make vague and unsubstantiated > > complaints, do me a favor and just keep it to yourself. > > I'm having serious problems with my 3COM Card too. The problem is > that there are many many collisions on the network. If i for > example transfer 30MB via samba from one computer to the other i get > about 900 collisions. I even get those collissions when only those > two computers are connected to one hub. If i transfer too many data > the NT machine crashes. If I transfer only a few bytes - say I'm > listening to an mp3 audio file which is on the server - then there > are no collissions. Frankly, 900 collisions for transfering a 30MB file isn't bad. Given that an ethernet frame can hold a maximum of 1500, that works out to around 20,000 packets. If you got 900 collisions out of 20,000 packets doesn't sound unreasonable. The reason you get collisions even if only those two machines are active is that they're only attached at half duplex. That means that if both machines transmit at the same time, they will trigger a collision. You don't have to have many hosts on a single ethernet segment in order to see collisions. For example, with a TCP transfer (which is what samba is doing), the server host will be sending enough packets to fill the TCP window (maybe 16K or so). The other side will then have to reply with an ACK for each segment that the server sends, It's possible that the ACK will be sent by the LoseNT host at the same time that the server is still sending data: that means there will almost certainly be collisions. If you had a full duplex switch, of if you had both machines wired back to back with a crossover cable and set both NICs to 100Mbps full-duplex mode, then you would never get any collisions at all (full duplex implies that both hosts can send simultaneously without ever colliding; in fact most chips disable collision detection when you program then for full duplex mode). How many collisions you see depends on a number of factors, including how fast the two machines are and how fast they can transmit data. If the receiving host is slow, then it will send ACKs slower, which will cause the sending host to throttle back a little (it can't send the next TCP segment until the previous ones are acknowledged). What you need to check is how fast the transfers are going. Observe the activity LEDs on the NICs and on the hubs while a transfer is in progress: if the LEDs keep flashing steadily throughout the whole transfer, then the NICs are working ok. If you see pauses during the transfer, where the LEDs stop flashing for a few seconds or more, then one of the NICs is getting stuck somewhere and having to reset itself. Run netstat -in on the FreeBSD host and look at the oerrors section of the output. If there are no output errors, then the NIC is probably working ok. Also, try and time the transfer: cound how many seconds it takes to transfer all 30MB of data. Ideally, you should be seeing several MBs per second. You can also try FTPing a file from the FreeBSD host to the LoseNT host; the FTP client should give you an approximation of the transfer rate. Bear in mind though that this will include the overhead of copying files to and from the disks. You can attempt to avoid this by FTPing the same file several times in succession (after you read it once, it should be cached on the server). Also, you can FTP the file to NUL: on the LoseNT host: this is equivalent to writing the file to /dev/null on UNIX and will not generate any disk activity. As for the LoseNT machine crashing, I can't really help you with that. You also didn't explain exactly what you meant by 'crash.' Does it just lock up completely (mouse doesn't move)? Does it 'panic' with a 'blue screen of death' (register dump)? Does the machine keep working but the networking stop (you can't ping it anymore)? -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:35:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D50152F2; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23855; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:04:43 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: akm@mail.theinternet.com.au (Andrew Kenneth Milton) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:04:43 -1430 (CST) Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> from "Andrew Kenneth Milton" at Jun 1, 99 01:21:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > How about optionally tarring the 'files' and 'patches' subdirs > (into seperate tarfiles or as one tarfile) to be extracted when the port > is needed. This would make cvsupping ports 'harder' I would imagine, > although not impossible, given the .uu files I've seen for /compat > stuff recently. More blue-sky stuff, but perhaps this one is easier to maintain on a long-term basis... We currently have /usr/ports/distfiles as a catch-all for, well, the distfiles. There's also /usr/ports/Mk for the makefile stubs. As such, they're a special cases, treated differently from all the other subdirs of /usr/ports. I propose another one, called something like /usr/ports/buildenv (for Build Environment). /usr/ports/buildenv would contain everything that the non-special-case /usr/ports directories currently contain, except the Makefiles. They'd continue to live in their present location. The way it'd work in real life is like this: In order to build a port you'd need /usr/ports/Mk and the subdirectory for the port you want to build (and its prerequisites); Type "make install" in /usr/ports/category/application as per usual. The bsd.ports.mk file would begin by checking for the existence of /usr/ports/buildenv/category/application. If it doesn't exist, go looking for it in /cdrom, or on ftp.freebsd.org. If it does exist, copy its contents into /usr/ports/category/application and continue the build in exactly the same way we do it today. The advantage of this approach is that you don't need to truck patches, package DESCR files, etc along with the ports tree distributed to end-users: All you need is a tree full of makefiles, everything else is grabbed on-demand. You still have the option of putting the whole damn thing on your system if you want, but for most people who just want to build a handful of ports, browse the tree to see if there's anything cool they want, and then forget the ports tree 'til the next upgrade, it'll cut down considerably on overhead. It'll cut down on the number of subdirectories in the ports tree by 66% at least. Ok, fire away -- tell me why it'll never work :-) - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:39:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8FB14F3C; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23885; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:08:56 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199905311538.BAA23885@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: newton@internode.com.au (Mark Newton) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:08:56 -1430 (CST) Cc: akm@mail.theinternet.com.au, eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> from "Mark Newton" at Jun 1, 99 01:04:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Newton wrote: > /usr/ports/buildenv would contain everything that the non-special-case > /usr/ports directories currently contain, except the Makefiles. They'd > continue to live in their present location. I thought of another advantage of this approach: You can upgrade existing ports on your system (but not add new ones) by doing an "rm -rf /usr/ports/buildenv". Next time you build a port the latest version of the build environment, supplementary makefiles, patches, distfile locations, etc can be sucked over from ftp.freebsd.org - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 8:41: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vmunix.psn.ie (bh-cw31-082.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.60.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A639314D0A for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ad@fionn.sports.gov.uk) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by vmunix.psn.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10zNKo-00004N-00; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:35:42 +0000 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:35:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Doran X-Sender: ad@vmunix.psn.ie To: Alexander Maret Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199905311528.LAA04262@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm having serious problems with my 3COM Card too. The problem is > > that there are many many collisions on the network. If i for > > example transfer 30MB via samba from one computer to the other i get > > about 900 collisions. Leaving busy networks etc. aside, this is purely a characteristic of the card in question - it's just very 'agressive' on the wire and doesn't like to back off. I wouldn't worry about it. - ad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 9:30:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD8A14D4B for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA82638 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905311630.MAA82638@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: lockmgr: locking against myself (again) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:30:26 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I have a debuging kernel compiled with DEBUG_LOCKS turned on, below is the result. This was cvsup-ed and built about May 27, 14:00 EDT. gdb -k /usr/src/sys/compile/STAGGER/kernel.debug vmcore.10 (yes, that's right, #10 in a little over one week) GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... IdlePTD 2990080 initial pcb at 2663b8 panicstr: lockmgr: locking against myself panic messages: --- panic: lockmgr: locking against myself syncing disks... 26 19 11 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 giving up dumping to dev 20001, offset 303392 dump 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 285 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xc014baa4 in at_shutdown ( function=0xc02354bb <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+179>, arg=0xc75b9b40, queue=65538) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xc0147794 in debuglockmgr (lkp=0xc1276200, flags=16842754, interlkp=0xc75b9bb0, p=0xc743f780, name=0xc0237d57 "vop_stdlock", file=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 #3 0xc016d6c1 in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7453a5c) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:211 #4 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7453a5c) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #5 0xc0176635 in debug_vn_lock (vp=0xc75b9b40, flags=65538, p=0xc743f780, filename=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at vnode_if.h:811 #6 0xc01700d1 in vget (vp=0xc75b9b40, flags=2, p=0xc743f780) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 #7 0xc016c1b3 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7453b24) at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 #8 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7453b24) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #9 0xc016e7c1 in lookup (ndp=0xc7453d94) at vnode_if.h:31 #10 0xc01b8260 in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7453d94, fhp=0xc7453d0c, len=3, slp=0xc0f7e400, nam=0xc0f54370, mdp=0xc7453c48, dposp=0xc7453c44, retdirp=0xc7453c2c, p=0xc743f780, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 #11 0xc01a123f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc108f100, slp=0xc0f7e400, procp=0xc743f780, mrq=0xc7453e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 #12 0xc01b9cba in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7453e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743f780) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 #13 0xc01b95d5 in nfssvc (p=0xc743f780, uap=0xc7453f94) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 #14 0xc020d02f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951762972, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #15 0xc0203e5c in Xint0x80_syscall () #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () (kgdb) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 9:40:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [208.243.107.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F67B14D4B for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 60C434048; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 548F09ACF; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Robert Huff Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905311311.JAA11869@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Robert Huff wrote: : How often _do_ people rebuild their kernels? (On non-testing :machines.) : I rebuild/reinstall every two weeks, plus or minus a day or :two. I only run -RELEASE. Usually the latest. I build a kernel customized for my machine with every new release, and that's pretty much it right now. I suspect most people not doing developement follow a similar pattern, no matter which track they follow. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 10:23:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0730114E79 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:23:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA12702; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905311721.KAA12702@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Bill Huey Cc: mph@astro.caltech.edu (Matthew Hunt), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:21:41 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 May 1999 21:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Bill Huey wrote: > Possibly, but the thing that bothers me is that I've heard more > derogatory comments directed against Linux user on this list > than I have seen come from Microsoft. ...because Microsoft isn't Unix, so being displeased with its approach to how a Unix system is designed is rather pointless. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 10:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39791527F for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA76020; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199905311724.KAA76020@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. References: <199905310829.DAA10969@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :While I really doubt that this is related, I discovered today that I'm able :to repeatably lock up my -current machine with: : :find /home -print | afio -T 3k -G 6 -Z -z -v -o - | tee /scratch/backup.afio >/dev/rsa0 : :It runs for about 5 minutes, then hangs completely. Removing the tee and :writing to either of them doesn't cause a hang. Running two afio's with run :going to the file and one going to tape doesn't cause a hang. : :When it locks up, it's doing it pretty solidly. (no ddb, no keyboard echo, :etc). : :I haven't ruled out hardware issues yet though, but it looks slightly pipe :related. : :Kevin Alan and I are working on it. We are testing a fix for pipe_read() now and I'm working on one for pipe_write(). The fixes basically involve holding the pipe's lock throughout all calculations and I/O ops except when the code needs to explicitly tsleep() on a pipe-empty or pipe-full condition. The race conditions in the pipe code can lead to a crash in the case where you have multiple writers or multiple readers accessing the same pipe, but should only lead to corruption in certain cases where one reader and one writer exist. It may or may not be related to your problem. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 10:29:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D968414F62 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17915 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:18:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:18:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang Reply-To: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Accessing special device files Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I write a small program to read/write each FreeBSD partition via special device file names, e.g. /dev/wd0s2e, /dev/rwd0s2e, etc. I have two questions about doing this: (1) If I try to read() on these files, the buffer size must be given in multiples of 512 (sector size). Otherwise, I will get an EINVAL error. Why is this the case? Does the same thing happen to the write() system call? (2) I use lseek() on these device files, it returns the correct offset for me. But actually it does not work. I read in a recent posting saying that you can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work unless the file descriptor is associated with a regular file because file size information is not available at that level. Does this apply to all kinds of lseek(), include SEEK_SET and SEEK_CUR? Or maybe the offset must also given in a multiple of 512 for some reason. If I give lseek(fd, 8193, SEEK_SET), it will actually do lseek(fd, 8192, SEEK_SET)? Thanks for any help. -------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang. Please visit http://www.freebsd.org -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 11:18:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (as3-015.rp-plus.de [149.221.238.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1CC14D09; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA78323; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12563; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) From: Alexander Langer Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:28 +0200 To: Mark Newton Cc: Andrew Kenneth Milton , eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531200328.A12484@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > but for most people who just want to build a handful of ports, > browse the tree to see if there's anything cool they want, and > then forget the ports tree 'til the next upgrade, it'll cut How do you want to find out if the port fits your needs without a DESCR file? I use them very often. So - include it. Alex -- ************** I doubt, therefore I might be. ************** *** Send email to to get PGP-Key *** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 11:19:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (as1-015.rp-plus.de [149.221.236.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF0E15052; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA78323; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12563; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) From: Alexander Langer Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:03:28 +0200 To: Mark Newton Cc: Andrew Kenneth Milton , eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531200328.A12484@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > but for most people who just want to build a handful of ports, > browse the tree to see if there's anything cool they want, and > then forget the ports tree 'til the next upgrade, it'll cut How do you want to find out if the port fits your needs without a DESCR file? I use them very often. So - include it. Alex -- ************** I doubt, therefore I might be. ************** *** Send email to to get PGP-Key *** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 11:41:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A35C15052; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:41:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id UAA06518; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:30:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01320; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:13:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199905311813.UAA01320@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: converting Multia riser card into a generic NCR810 (Take 2) To: port-alpha@netbsd.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:13:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Take 2: I've added a few pictures of a converted board to the web page. I hope this helps people to figure out if it is do-able for them. See: http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko/ncr_hack.html | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:11:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D98014EA9 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:11:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA29335; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:11:22 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 06:11:51PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 06:11:51PM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > > My problem is that login fails, due to undefined symbols in the PAM > > modules: > > I don't know what's going on with your system, but something is messed > up. Maybe you're trying to mix and match a.out and ELF files. Try > running "file" on /usr/bin/login as well as your libpam and pam > modules. Upon further investigation, I read the the dlopen(8) manpage and came across: # NOTES # ELF executables need to be linked using the -export-dynamic option to # ld(1) for symbols defined in the executable to become visible to dlsym(). If I add "-export-dynamic" to LDADD in usr.bin/login/Makefile, everything is groovy. I've noticed that dynamic linking in Perl also doesn't work for me, likely for the same reason. I haven't tried rebuilding perl with "-export-dynamic" yet, though. So, the question now is: Why do I need "-export-dynamic", when evidently nobody else does? Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:16: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AD914EA9; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.21]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21926; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA13571; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:16:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:16:06 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: Eivind Eklund , abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531151606.B13442@mad> References: <19990531155305.A55875@bitbox.follo.net> <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au>; from Andrew Kenneth Milton on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:21:46AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:21:46AM +1000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > How about optionally tarring the 'files' and 'patches' subdirs > (into seperate tarfiles or as one tarfile) to be extracted when the port > is needed. This would make cvsupping ports 'harder' I would imagine, Has anyone involved in this discussion tried using the portcheckout script? It's in devel/portcheckout. It checkouts the current version of a port and its dependencies on demand. At one time, I gave wosch patches to optionally use ftp. Due to changes on wcarchive, I'm not sure those work anymore. Actually, I suspect the whole thing is suffering from a little bitrot, but you should at least have a look... -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:19:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C2014EA9; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18341.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.21]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23085; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA13581; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:19:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:19:59 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Mark Newton Cc: Andrew Kenneth Milton , eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531151958.C13442@mad> References: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199905311534.BAA23855@gizmo.internode.com.au>; from Mark Newton on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:04:43AM -1430 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:04:43AM -1430, Mark Newton wrote: > > The bsd.ports.mk file would begin by checking for the existence of > /usr/ports/buildenv/category/application. If it doesn't exist, > go looking for it in /cdrom, or on ftp.freebsd.org. If it does The portcheckout script can easily be modified to do that. I think everyone is trying to reinvent wosch's short script. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:38:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (unknown [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95D714C41; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA019564195; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:23:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > It seems to me that you guys are arguing about a problem that doesn't > really exist. Or at least all ideas proposed so far seem to hurt more > than help. ;) Agreed. This whole discussion, I feel, is silly. This is change for the sake of change. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:53: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (unknown [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0AA14C41; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA023034943; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:35:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:35:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Max Khon Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Max Khon wrote: > > @ Version control. Can you check out an arbitrary version of any > > file? I want to do something like "give me the changes in > > Makefile between yesterday and today". > > It's hard to check out the port for an arbitrary version of program. Not really. > E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 $ cvs co -D 08/29/98 samba works for me on freefall. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 12:53:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (unknown [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A429D15332; Mon, 31 May 1999 12:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA024715067; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:37:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:37:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199905311206.OAA19033@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > I am primarily concerned with that, and secondly with mainteinance > issues when you have a new/updated port, you generally need to touch > the Makefile and one or more files in pkg, and the info in pkg/* is > often the same comments you would put at the beginning of the makefile. Yes, but this would be a PITA for package building and parsing. Please understand (everyone) that there is more to the ports tree then building a port by hand. The web pages are built from the structure, pkg_* depends on files being there (and not having to parse a single file). - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 13:21:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maildns.FSBDial.co.uk (maildns.fsbdial.co.uk [195.89.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC65D14C8D; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Received: from [212.1.144.43] by maildns.freenet.co.uk (NTMail 4.30.0008/NT0619.00.8ceac940) with ESMTP id tlwpgaaa for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:16:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3752EFC6.95357F1B@excite.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:23:34 +0100 From: Dean Lombardo Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179631@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > > @ It is large. Ok, so it's 44MB (the first poster had the size > completely wrong -- probably had some distfiles or work/ subdirs > lying around). That's less than 20KB per port. Ok, so you can > keep only the Makefile, or even less, and let the network do the > work for you whenever you type something. But does anybody have a > system that has such a wonderful network connection but yet can't > spare 44MB of disk space? Luigi Rizzo wrote: >> Now, the problems are: >> >> @ It takes a long time to...what? cvsup the tree? That's already > > to install the port distribution. it's the slowest part of the install > process. developers may not experience that, but all other > users (who buy the cd) do. I'm sorry if I got the size wrong - I must have forgotten to exclude the distfiles directory, although I must say that /usr/ports certainly _feels_ a lot bigger than 44Mb... Also, isn't there some penalty for storing a large number of files less than the size of a fragment? A typical pkg/DESCR file may only be 22 bytes in size, but it still occupies at least 512 bytes on disk. So is 44Mb the _actual_ size of the whole thing, as stored on disk, or just the sum of individual file sizes? I agree with Luigi that the slowest part is the first-time installation of the ports tree. I normally get download rates of 1Mb/sec from src.doc.ic.ac.uk, but sysinstall slows down to 10Kb/sec when it comes to installing the ports. FreeBSD also seems a bit slow when dealing with lots of small files. Dean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 13:31: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC1114C8D; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA30504; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:30:58 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Dean Lombardo Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990531133058.A30436@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179631@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <3752EFC6.95357F1B@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3752EFC6.95357F1B@excite.com>; from Dean Lombardo on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 09:23:34PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 09:23:34PM +0100, Dean Lombardo wrote: > occupies at least 512 bytes on disk. So is 44Mb the _actual_ size of > the whole thing, as stored on disk, or just the sum of individual file > sizes? I would expect that Satoshi measured with du (or maybe df if he has a partition for the ports tree). In either case, the measurement is in allocated blocks of 512 bytes. > installing the ports. FreeBSD also seems a bit slow when dealing with > lots of small files. Either soft updates or async mounts should be used when initially installing the system. Probably not soft updates due to lcense issues. There are safty concerns with async mounts, but if you're doing a fresh install, you don't have precious data to worry about anyway, and if something goes wrong during the install, you're probably going to have to start over either way. Anyway, if I were installing a system, I would not install the ports tree during sysinstall. I would get the system up, and then install the ports tree while I can do other work on the system. -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 13:38:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles554.castles.com [208.214.165.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D471154E7; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18191; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199905312035.NAA18191@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Hunt Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 13:30:58 PDT." <19990531133058.A30436@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:35:48 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > installing the ports. FreeBSD also seems a bit slow when dealing with > > lots of small files. This was discussed a while back; the causes are widely known (and have nothing to do with "lots of small files"). > Either soft updates or async mounts should be used when initially > installing the system. Maybe you should do an install one of these days. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 13:43: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701531568C; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA30713; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:42:45 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990531134245.A30672@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990531133058.A30436@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905312035.NAA18191@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905312035.NAA18191@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:35:48PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 01:35:48PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Either soft updates or async mounts should be used when initially > > installing the system. > > Maybe you should do an install one of these days. Should I take that to mean that async mounts are now used during the installation? Since I only have one computer, and it already has FreeBSD on it, then I don't need to do any installs these days! It's not like it's Windows... I did have to replace my disk the other day and restore from tape, and that's as close to a fresh install as I care to get! -- Matthew Hunt * Inertia is a property http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * of matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 14:22:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C05314C49; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:22:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12698; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:22:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA57704; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:22:10 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:22:10 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990531232210.A56135@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990531155305.A55875@bitbox.follo.net> <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905311521.BAA92145@mail.theinternet.com.au>; from Andrew Kenneth Milton on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:21:46AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 01:21:46AM +1000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > 'Harder' is an awkward word, it has too many meanings in this context. > One meaning says that any extra exertion required rules out the change, > one meaning says that extra complexity rules out the change. I'm not > sure which one you mean or if you indeed mean both. They're the same, it is only a question of when the exertion comes. The important thing is that we do not netto loose contributions; this means that any extra complexity or work has to be outweighted by either decreasing the support work for the people presently doing the work, or make sure that new people will chip in (possibly because the increases in convenience makes them use FreeBSD instead of something else). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 15: 2:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from medulla.hippocampus.net (medulla.hippocampus.net [204.138.241.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E75E1521A for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@netstor.com) Received: from localhost (marc@localhost) by medulla.hippocampus.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA23888 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:07:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Nicholas X-Sender: marc@medulla.hippocampus.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Gigabit Ethernet performance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone done any performance benchmarking on the TIGON Gigabit Ethernet drivers? Curious to see what sort of link saturation can be achieved with various boxen/applications... -marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 15:18: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D97D615551 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA04728; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:17:53 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905312217.SAA04728@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: maret@axis.de (Alexander Maret) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E4D@erlangen01.axis.de> from "Alexander Maret" at May 31, 99 07:34:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4486 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Alexander Maret had to walk into mine and say: > Hmm, > > I'm no expert and this all sounds reasonable to me, but there are > things I haven't mentioned yet: Grrr. What were you waiting for. You should have mentioned them to start with. > When I boot linux on my FreeBSD server and I transfer the same > 30MB of Data via Samba, I only get 4 (!) collisions (HalfDuplex). Well maybe FreeBSD is transmitting packets much faster than Linux. :) You still haven't actually measured the transfer speed, so there's no way for us to know. > The collisions are measured with the 3COM NIC-Doctor. > I don't know if I can trust the output of NIC Doctor but > I'm (as a newbie) highly alerted by the difference of those two > values. Anyway - I will try what you told me and look at the > leds and at the netstat output. I also would like to know > how I can set up my FreeBSD system to support Full Duplex. Grrr. This tells me that you may not understand what full duplex really means. You're not allowed to fiddle with the full-duplex/half-duplex setting like it's some performance knob that you can crank up to "make things work better." If all you have is a hub, then the hub only supports half duplex. You can't set the machines to full duplex if the hub is only half duplex. You'll get rotten performance. On the other hand, if you have a *switch* -- which is *NOT* the same thing as a hub! -- and the switch ports support full duplex operation (which most do), *then* you can set the hosts for full duplex. Usually though, switches support NWAY autonegotiation, which means the NICs should autodetect the fact that the switch supports full duplex and the switch port and the NIC will both agree to use full duplex automatically. You can also use full duplex if you wire the machines back to back with a crossover cable. As to how you set the interface to full duplex, there are man pages to read which will tell you that. Naturally, being a newbie, you feel you have a god given right to ignore the man pages and go rummaging around with your web browser chewing up bandwidth instead of reading the instructions right under your nose. If you read the ifconfig(8) man page and the xl(4) man page, you would learn that the right way to do it is: # ifconfig xl0 media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex > Another interesting thing: If i switch the my NT client to > FullDuplex and FreeBSD is in HalfDuplex mode then my > FreeBSD server resets immidiately. Grrr. I'm sorry, but I really don't think you're putting the pieces together correctly. Setting the NT machine to full duplex should have absolutely no effect on the FreeBSD host. It will completely screw up performance since the LoseNT host will then no longer be set to match the hub, but that's another problem. I strongly suspect that you're not making the proper observations when your problem manifests and just leaping to the conclusion that setting the LoseNT host to full duplex crashes the FreeBSD host. I don't think that's true. If both machines are sitting idle (not transmitting any data) and you just suddenly set the LoseNT host to full duplex, the FreeBSD machine isn't going to just say "Hey! The LoseNT host changed modes! I better crash now!" There must be more to it than that, but you're not going into any detail. Remember when I said I wanted *detailed* problem reports? This is why. How do we know there isn't some really explicit panic message on the console that's screaming: "I crashed because of the following reason: ?" Maybe there's a message like that there, but we'll never know unless you tell us! So don't tell me "it resets immediately." Tell me *EXACTLY* what appears on the console (or if!) it crashes, word for word. Not your interpretation of what it says: *EXACTLY* what it says. And you still haven't explained what you meant about the LoseNT machine crashing before. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 15:25:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1C91553A for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:25:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA02207 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:25:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 4CE0F8837; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:41:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:41:13 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990531234113.A25972@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu>; from Matthew Hunt on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 12:11:22PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5322 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Matthew Hunt: > I've noticed that dynamic linking in Perl also doesn't work for me, > likely for the same reason. I haven't tried rebuilding perl with > "-export-dynamic" yet, though. It will work. Trust me :-) /usr/src/contrib/perl5/hints/freebsd.sh: -=-=- # Original based on info from # Carl M. Fongheiser # Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 19:17:05 -0500 (CDT) # # Additional 1.1.5 defines from # Ollivier Robert # Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:37:46 +0100 (MET) [...] # Support for FreeBSD/ELF # Ollivier Robert # Date: Wed Sep 2 16:22:12 CEST 1998 [...] 3.*|4.0*) objformat=`/usr/bin/objformat` if [ x$objformat = xelf ]; then libpth="/usr/lib /usr/local/lib" glibpth="/usr/lib /usr/local/lib" ldflags="-Wl,-E " lddlflags="-shared " else if [ -e /usr/lib/aout ]; then libpth="/usr/lib/aout /usr/local/lib /usr/lib" glibpth="/usr/lib/aout /usr/local/lib /usr/lib" fi lddlflags='-Bshareable' fi cccdlflags='-DPIC -fpic' ;; [...] -=-=- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 15:55:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FCE1557A for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:55:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00420; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:50:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199905312250.PAA00420@mag.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kernel config script To: dscheidt@enteract.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "David Scheidt" at May 30, 99 11:59:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Inter-UNIX rivalries are one of things that has kept unix healthy for so > long. Linux tends to pick up most of the 3L1t3 dudez, who don't know You must be joking me. Just about every other systems person I've talked to in past 5 years, (including me) would highly disagree with that citing that Unix fragementation is the main reason why Unix isn't more successful commericially. Linux can be cited as the main unifying force propelling Unix's come back. This of course assumes that one buys into the notion that NT would obsolete Unix in a few years, which I never did in the first place. It's doing so by unifying various fragmented group of people and is the main movement forcing folks like Apple release their source code publically to other devs. This is a very powerfully set of indicator of the Linux phenomenom and it *must* be respected. > anything but how to follow a How-To. I don't have a problem with letting HOW-TOs are useful and I person don't see why FreeBSD folks still talk down to Linux folks. Even kernel tweekers that I know find those things useable. > someone else deal with annoying lusers. When they get a clue, and realize > that FreeBSD has substantial advantages over Linux, then we can deal with > them. It would be nice if there were some migration documentation. (And Well, the claim above seems overstated to me at this time and won't be clear until I monitor various kernel discussions and explore/test FreeBSD. Linux and FreeBSD have more similarities than differences from what I can tell. This debate seems to artificially create a difference between the 2 kernels that I don't really see existing except possibly with kernel memory allocation and management. The differences seem to be created out of something emotionally reactive than concretely tangible. That's what I firmly think at this time and is subject to change as I experience the FreeBSD community. Like with any technology, that'll just take time to fix like any other problem that has a competent group maintaining it. > yes, that *is* an offer. Who do I talk to?) Someone used to have a .sig > that summed the difference between Linux and *BSD pretty nicely: "Linux is > for people that hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who love Unix." You probably don't know this but that attitude above isn't helpful for FreeBSD nor the Linux folks. Contrary to the derogatory point of view that FreeBSD have of Linux folks, Linux folks are *not* terribly stupid and see Linux as a valued and legitimate variant of Unix. I certainly see Linux in this way, as happy Linux user exploring the merits of FreeBSD for the first time. > David Scheidt bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 16: 9:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D61F51553A; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA04790; Mon, 31 May 1999 19:09:25 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199905312309.TAA04790@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Using newbus to hang a custom bus off a device To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 19:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: dfr@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5661 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, after a bit of head scratching, I finally think I've gotten the hang of the new bus architecture stuff (in general that is, not just the new ISA and PCI stuff). I'm trying to create an miibus framework so that I can have an miibus attached to those PCI ethernet drivers which support MII-based transceivers, to which I can attach transceiver drivers. I'm still a little confused by something though, probably because I'm trying to do the development on 3.2-RELEASE (I don't have a machine that I can clobber with -current just at the moment). Basically what I have is this: - An miibus_if.m file which describes the methods implemented by miibus drivers. There are three methodes: a readreg method, which lets you read a given register from a given PHY on the MII bus, a writereg method, which lets you write a value to a given register on a given PHY on the MII bus, and a status change method, which lets you tell the driver which implements the miibus support that the status of a PHY has changed and that the controller needs to update some state to match it. (This is mainly to deal with controllers that have speed and duplex settings that operate independently of the PHY: if the PHY negotiates 100Mbps full duplex, then the controller chip to which the PHY is attached may also need to be explicitly programmed for 100Mbps full duplex to match the PHY.) - A stub mii PHY driver, which has its own probe and attach functions, and which uses the following DRIVER_MODULE() macro: DRIVER_MODULE(miigeneric, miibus, mii_driver, mii_devclass, 0, 0); - Some stub code to be inserted into a NIC driver which implements the miibus support. The code provides a probe routine (which checks for MII support on the controller) but uses bus_generic_attach for its attach routine. This, I believe, allows all of the mii driver probes to be invoked after the bus is attached. The NIC driver also uses a DRIVER_MODULE() macro like this: DRIVER_MODULE(miibus, ax, miibus_driver, miibus_devclass, 0, 0); (Here, "ax" represents the if_ax driver, which is what I used for testing since the ASIX chipset uses an MII-based transeiver.) So, here's how I understand this: the MII driver is declared to be in the 'miibus' devclass. And the if_ax driver declares an miibus device which is attached to the ax devclass. Since this is 3.2-RELEASE, I manually attach the ax device to the root_bus devclass using device_add_child(). Then I do the following: miibus = device_add_child(sc->ax_device, "miibus", -1, NULL); if (device_probe_and_attach(miibus)) { device_delete_child(sc->ax_device, miibus); return(ENODEV); } Now, this is where I had to do some looking around: the fact that you need to use device_add_child() is not clearly spelled out in the man pages. Basically, the fact that the DRIVER_MODULE() modules declare the driver hierarchy does not mean than device instances are actually created. The DRIVER_MODULE() macros basically tell the system to expect that an miibus could be created as a child of an ax device instance, and that an miigeneric device could be created as a child of an miibus instance, but you actually need to use device_add_child() to call the device instance into existence. Similarly, in the miibus probe routine, you have to check for PHYs on the miibus and call device_add_child() to create a device node for each PHY on the bus. (I use device_add_child(dev, NULL, -1, NULL) for this, because you don't know ahead of time exactly which driver will be attached.) Then, bus_generic_attach() will call the probe routines of all the PHY drivers that are declared to be in the miibus devclass, and whichever driver supports the discovered PHY claims the device instance. Now, given all that, here are the questions that I have: - In -current, assuming that a PCI NIC driver has been properly newbus-ified, is it still necessary for the driver to manually call device_add_child() to create the miibus device instance and then call device_probe_and_attach() to get the PHY drivers into the picture? I think the answer is yes, because I don't see any other way for it to work. - Suppose that I want to probe for PHYs on the miibus in a particular order? All MII-compliant PHYs implement a standard set of registers, so in theory it's possible to write just a single generic PHY driver which will handle all PHYs. However, sometimes a given PHY will require some special handling. So, what I want to do is have expliclt PHY drivers to handle certain PHYs and have a catch-all generic driver to handle any other device that isn't handled by one of the explicit PHY drivers. This implies that the probe routine of the generic device will be invoked last. If the generic device probe is invoked first, then all PHYs will get the generic driver attached, which is not what I want. Is there some way to weight the drivers such that the specific ones will have a higher priority than the generic one, thereby forcing the specific probes to be called first? -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 16:15:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70AD614BF1 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@sr.hp.com) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com (srmail.sr.hp.com [15.4.45.14]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id QAA16934 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA228052514; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:15:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (darrylo@mina.sr.hp.com [15.4.42.247]) by mina.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id QAA18260 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905312315.QAA18260@mina.sr.hp.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 23:59:10 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.1.1.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:15:13 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bill Huey wrote: > > > That's fundamentally disturbing especially coming from other fellow > > Unix variant folks. > > Inter-UNIX rivalries are one of things that has kept unix healthy for so > long. Linux tends to pick up most of the 3L1t3 dudez, who don't know Inter-Unix rivalries are one of the big things that's slowed down Unix development and allowed Windows to thrive. If the rivalries didn't exist, Unix would be *MUCH* better than it currently is. I'm not just talking about FreeBSD vs Linux; I'm talking about all of the other major Unix vendors, too. I think Bill has a point: all this rivalry is disturbing. I'm surrounded by Linux users, and yet I still manage to use FreeBSD without having to stoop to emotional arguments and name-calling. Personally, I find all this hand waving, venting of hot air, and attempted kicking of hind parts rather boring. I've got better and often more enjoyable things to do. For those of you who enjoy all this name-calling and dirt-flinging, I've got one thing to say: grow up and get a life. -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 16:18:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F3E14BF1 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA32838; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:18:19 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Ollivier Robert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990531161819.C32574@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> <19990531234113.A25972@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990531234113.A25972@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:41:13PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 11:41:13PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > I've noticed that dynamic linking in Perl also doesn't work for me, > > likely for the same reason. I haven't tried rebuilding perl with > > "-export-dynamic" yet, though. > > It will work. Trust me :-) > > /usr/src/contrib/perl5/hints/freebsd.sh: I'm not sure I understand. If "-export-dynamic" is supposed to be there, then why isn't it? If it's not supposed to be there, then why do I need it (there, and for login(1))? Confused as always, Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 16:44:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738D214D58 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40374>; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:28:47 +1000 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:44:28 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Jun1.092847est.40374@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I do agree that the current approach is fairly wasteful. Currently, an unpacked ports tree contains 61767 inodes and occupies 79967 1K-blocks (35184 inodes and 35215 blocks are CVS-related metadata). This covers 2374 ports in 41 categories. An average user probably builds 1-2% of these. How about storing each port as a single file in ar(5) format, which is unpacked into the directory structure when make'd? ar(5) is a text format, which means it can easily be managed by CVS, which includes a tool for manipulating its contents - ar(1). The ports would remain in the current categories. Each category directory would contain an `ARCHIVE' directory containing an ar file for each port. To package a port: - ar(1) all the current port files into a single file in a defined order. - CVS commit that file To unpack a port: - in the category directory, run `make portname'. If that port is not unpacked (the directory does not exist), it will create the directory and unpack the archive. Benefits: - The ports tree would become ~2500 inodes and ~~32MB. - The entire ports tree is still available on the machine. Disadvantages: - Unpacked ports will use about twice as much disk space (3 times if you include the original CVS archive). - ar(1) may need some tweaks to allow pathnames (not just filenames) as object names (and maybe to create directories). - Updating ports is not as easy (the port needs to be unpacked/repacked in the same order, with modification times and gid/uid maintained to stop the deltas bloating). Comments anyone? Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 17:10:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1505614E4C; Mon, 31 May 1999 17:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01012; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:40:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:40:11 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Bill Fumerola Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, mladavac@metropolitan.at, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Max Khon Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 31-May-99 Bill Fumerola wrote: > Not really. > > > E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 > > $ cvs co -D 08/29/98 samba > > works for me on freefall. Hmm... anon cvs anyone? :) I have a copy of the src repo but not the ports one.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 17:44:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from void.bloodletting.com (server.bloodletting.com [209.31.32.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18672155A1 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 17:44:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mouse@bloodletting.com) Received: (qmail 255 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 00:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rust) (209.31.32.68) by server.bloodletting.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 00:54:59 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531174745.007b2100@void.bloodletting.com> X-Sender: cryptic@void.bloodletting.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 17:47:45 -0700 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Nick Popoff Subject: FreeBSD Book Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry if this is off topic for this list, but I'm about to dive head first into more advanced FreeBSD and I'm badly in need of a good reference book. I was tempted by the Walnut Creek FreeBSD book, but it looks like it only covers 2.2.8 and I was concerned that enough had changed since then that it would be outdated. Is there a 3.X version of that book coming out any time soon? I'm especially interested in good information on the firewall and advanced sys admin features. While 'man' pages are a pleasure to read, some times a reference book is better. :) Any advice much appreciated! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 18:25:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377AF14F8C for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA34386; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:25:37 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Ollivier Robert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990531182537.A34339@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990529151511.A34375@wopr.caltech.edu> <199905310111.SAA02306@vashon.polstra.com> <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> <19990531234113.A25972@keltia.freenix.fr> <19990531161819.C32574@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990531161819.C32574@wopr.caltech.edu>; from Matthew Hunt on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 04:18:19PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 04:18:19PM -0700, Matthew Hunt wrote: > > It will work. Trust me :-) > > > > /usr/src/contrib/perl5/hints/freebsd.sh: > > I'm not sure I understand. If "-export-dynamic" is supposed to be > there, then why isn't it? If it's not supposed to be there, then why > do I need it (there, and for login(1))? Never mind, I didn't realize that -E was a synonym for -export-dynamic. Now, I need to figure out why my Perl doesn't work. Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 21:19:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F281114CEB; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by mx.nsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA05002; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:12:47 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA82973; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:12:20 +0700 (NSS) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:12:19 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > It's hard to check out the port for an arbitrary version of program. > > Not really. > > > E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 > > $ cvs co -D 08/29/98 samba > > works for me on freefall. I have very (VERY!) bad link to anoncvs.freebsd.org. are there other anoncvs servers? /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 21:34:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4559A15145 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@sd5.mailbank.com) Received: (qmail 19233 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 04:34:21 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 04:34:21 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA01152; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:34:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199906010434.XAA01152@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Possible race in pipe device driver, esp on multi-cpu machines. In-Reply-To: <199905311724.KAA76020@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "May 31, 99 10:24:55 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:34:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > Alan and I are working on it. We are testing a fix for pipe_read() now > and I'm working on one for pipe_write(). The fixes basically involve > holding the pipe's lock throughout all calculations and I/O ops except > when the code needs to explicitly tsleep() on a pipe-empty or pipe-full > condition. > > The race conditions in the pipe code can lead to a crash in the case > where you have multiple writers or multiple readers accessing the same > pipe, but should only lead to corruption in certain cases where one reader > and one writer exist. It may or may not be related to your problem. > You are doing the right thing. Once the problem was brought up in the mailing lists, after the quick inspection, the problem is obvious, and the fix isn't too awful complex, when knowing that the problems exists... It is amazing how things like this can slip by. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 21:59:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A790014C46; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA62794; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:58:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:58:16 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Max Khon Cc: Bill Fumerola , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990531235815.B62559@dan.emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from "Max Khon" on Tue Jun 1 11:12:19 GMT 1999 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Jun 01), Max Khon said: > hi, there! > > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > Not really. > > > > > E.g.: try to check out port for samba 1.9.18p10 > > > > $ cvs co -D 08/29/98 samba > > > > works for me on freefall. > > I have very (VERY!) bad link to anoncvs.freebsd.org. are there other > anoncvs servers? Be your own CVS repository. Cvsup the raw CVS tree instead of pulling a single checked-out copy; then you can check out whatever versions you want, view the commitlogs, make local changes, etc. /usr/share/examples/cvsup/cvs-supfile is a good starting point. -Dan Nelson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 22:13: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0853615127; Mon, 31 May 1999 22:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18066; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:12:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA59651; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:12:43 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:12:43 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990601071242.A58405@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199905311410.HAA51369@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <199905311206.OAA19033@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199905311206.OAA19033@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:06:22PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 02:06:22PM +0200, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > Now, the problems are: > > > > @ It takes a long time to...what? cvsup the tree? That's already > > to install the port distribution. it's the slowest part of the install > process. developers may not experience that, but all other > users (who buy the cd) do. This is due to FS bogons. There are two bogons in action: (1) 'async' isn't really fully async. Directory creation is still done synchronously. (2) The directory inode layout algorithm is not really efficient for things like the ports collection. There are a number of solutions available: (1) Change 'make release' to scan the ports collection and create an mtree file beforehand; apply the mtree file before extracting the collection. This will make the inode layout more efficient. (2) Change the directory inode layout policy in the kernel to a more efficient scheme (3) Hit jkh with a baseball bat until he stops refusing to use soft updates on the boot floppy during install (due to "making a point") (4) Fix the async code so it actually is fully async 1 and 2 are alternate solutions to the same part of the problem; 3 and 4 are alternate solutions to another part of the problem. Solving any of these would be useful, but solving one problem from each group would give most benefit. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 22:28:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F3701526E for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 22:28:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 57848 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 05:28:11 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 05:28:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-3.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA06059; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:28:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-3.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:28:11 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Eivind Eklund Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990601071242.A58405@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (CCs snipped) On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > (3) Hit jkh with a baseball bat until he stops refusing to use soft > updates on the boot floppy during install (due to "making a point") What exactly is the point? We clearly wouldn't be distributing a kernel withoutthe whole sources, so I wouldn't think we would be violating the license. In any event, the -CURRENT /usr/src/sys/ufs/ffs/README.softupdates has a change sugesting that one do something likea "tunefs -n enable /usr " -STABlE still says tunefs -n enable /dev/rsd0s1d. Any reason for this? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 22:42:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2FC155DA; Mon, 31 May 1999 22:42:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18313; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:42:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA59777; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:42:27 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:42:27 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: David Scheidt Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990601074227.B58405@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990601071242.A58405@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from David Scheidt on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 12:28:11AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 12:28:11AM -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > (3) Hit jkh with a baseball bat until he stops refusing to use soft > > updates on the boot floppy during install (due to "making a point") > > What exactly is the point? We clearly wouldn't be distributing a > kernel withoutthe whole sources, so I wouldn't think we would be > violating the license. The point that FreeBSD won't willingly be using restricted source code as a part of our distribution mechanism, I think. It seems to be within the license, and anyway I believe that Kirk would be willing to grant us an exception for using it on the boot floppy if it wasn't. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23: 5:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335E314F6D for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem37.masternet.it [194.184.65.47]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA57916; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:04:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990601080012.01831f10@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:02:32 +0200 To: Nick Popoff From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: FreeBSD Book Question Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990531174745.007b2100@void.bloodletting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 31/05/99, you wrote: > >Sorry if this is off topic for this list, but I'm about to dive head first >into more advanced FreeBSD and I'm badly in need of a good reference book. >I was tempted by the Walnut Creek FreeBSD book, but it looks like it only >covers 2.2.8 and I was concerned that enough had changed since then that it >would be outdated. Is there a 3.X version of that book coming out any time >soon? I'm especially interested in good information on the firewall and >advanced sys admin features. While 'man' pages are a pleasure to read, some >times a reference book is better. :) The new book will cover FreeBSD 3.x specific aspects too... It will be printed soon, but I don't know when... You can ask Greg Lehey , the author, more infos... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:30:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F71014C26 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 93656 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Jun 1999 06:30:43 +0000 (GMT) To: marc@netstor.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gigabit Ethernet performance From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 18:07:58 -0400 (EDT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:30:42 +0200 Message-ID: <93654.928218642@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Has anyone done any performance benchmarking on the TIGON Gigabit > Ethernet drivers? Curious to see what sort of link saturation can be > achieved with various boxen/applications... 470 Mbps application to application using ttcp, on a PII-350 back to back with a Celeron 300A overclocked to 337 Mhz (ie 75 Mhz bus). Looked like I'd be able to get more with a faster CPU. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:30:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (unknown [202.103.112.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB1A14BE7 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fretre@163.net) Received: from k ([10.63.52.245]) by www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA15494 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:29:46 +0800 Message-ID: <001a01beabfd$022976e0$f5343f0a@k> From: "fretre" To: Subject: help about boot code Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:04:33 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEAC40.0E45EA60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEAC40.0E45EA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. I try to learn something about boot code with version 3.0. I wander whether I can begin with biosboot?(/usr/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot) 2. The intialized data will be loaded into memory after kernel text during boot stage, and where is the file that the initialized data is defined in? and 3. What's the file name? Thanks a lot from Fre Tre ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEAC40.0E45EA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
1. I try to learn something about = boot code=20 with
   version 3.0. I wander = whether I can=20 begin with
  =20 biosboot?(/usr/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot)
2. The intialized data will be = loaded into=20 memory
   after kernel text = during boot=20 stage, and where
   is the file that the = initialized=20 data is defined
   in? and
3. What's the file = name?
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;=20 Thanks a lot from Fre Tre
          &nbs= p;            = ;=20 <fretre@163.net>
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEAC40.0E45EA60-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:31:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B85315199 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10oi4w-000HBf-00; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:31:14 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Nick Popoff Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Book Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 17:47:45 MST." <3.0.6.32.19990531174745.007b2100@void.bloodletting.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:31:13 +0200 Message-ID: <66070.928218673@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999 17:47:45 MST, Nick Popoff wrote: > Sorry if this is off topic for this list, but I'm about to dive head > first into more advanced FreeBSD and I'm badly in need of a good > reference book. Hi Nick, If "more advanced FreeBSD" means the guts of the system, rather than "advanced system administration", then I have a recommendation: The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System ISBN 0-201-54979-4 I started reading it a month ago and I'm _loving_ it. Having used FreeBSD for a few years makes it a lot easier to swallow than I imagine it would be for the complete neophyte. The book is a journey of demystification, bringing the kernel and its interoperation with userland processes and hardware into perspective. The writing style is crystal clear and is bursting with a determined sense of direction every step of the way. Then again, I'm only on page 93, so I can't speak for the entire volume. ;-) Good luck! Ciao, Sheldon. PS: Perhaps I'm just biased because I'm being so seriously boggled by the Knuth book my boss dropped onto my desk. I'm getting a serious "you'll never be a hacker, 'cause your math sucks" vibe. :-\ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:49:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (unknown [202.103.112.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D5614BE7 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fretre@163.net) Received: from k ([10.63.53.37]) by www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA18753 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:48:51 +0800 Message-ID: <000901beabff$acc11de0$25353f0a@k> From: "fretre" To: Subject: question about boot code Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:22:07 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEAC42.831282C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEAC42.831282C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. I try to learn something about boot code with version 3.0. I wander whether I can begin with biosboot?(/usr/src/sys/i386/ boot/biosboot) 2. The initialized data will be loaded into memory after kernel text during boot stage. And where is the file that the initialized data is defined in? and 3. What's the file name? Thanks a lot from Fre Tre China ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEAC42.831282C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
1.  I try to learn something = about boot=20 code with version 3.0. I
    wander whether I = can begin=20 with biosboot?(/usr/src/sys/i386/
    = boot/biosboot)
2.  The initialized data will = be loaded=20 into memory after kernel
    text during boot = stage. And=20 where is the file that the
    initialized data = is defined=20 in? and
3.  What's the file = name?
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 Thanks a lot from Fre Tre
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 <fretre@163.net>
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 China
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEAC42.831282C0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:58:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4123D15618 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 06:58:39 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E4F@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: 'Bill Paul' Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:58:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > Well maybe FreeBSD is transmitting packets much faster than Linux. :) > You still haven't actually measured the transfer speed, so there's > no way for us to know. Well, I'll do and report the results to you. > Grrr. I'm sorry, but I really don't think you're putting the pieces > together correctly. Setting the NT machine to full duplex should have > absolutely no effect on the FreeBSD host. It will completely screw up > performance since the LoseNT host will then no longer be set to match > the hub, but that's another problem. I strongly suspect that you're > not making the proper observations when your problem manifests and > just leaping to the conclusion that setting the LoseNT host to full > duplex crashes the FreeBSD host. I just tell you what i experienced. > I don't think that's true. Why are you ignoring problems. On the one hand you want people to use your driver and complain if they switch to other cards and on the other hand you comment their problems with: That's not true. I don't think that so many collisions are normal! I think there is a problem, because at work we nearly only use 3COM 100 Mbit cards and don't have much collisions. Even under high load! Looking at the fact that at work not only two computers are connected to one hub but many, it would be more likely if we had many collisions. The only difference is that we only use NT Server/Workstation machines. Well I know you don't like what I wrote in my last paragraph and I know I will again get a very aggressive answer and I think at the end I will someday switch to other cards. Like many people. I think that your aggressive way to answer questions is another problem. Why do you think you don't get many bug reports or people switching to other hardware? > If both > machines are sitting idle (not transmitting any data) and you just > suddenly set the LoseNT host to full duplex, the FreeBSD machine isn't > going to just say "Hey! The LoseNT host changed modes! I better crash > now!" There must be more to it than that, but you're not going into > any detail. I don't know what's going on in the background. > Remember when I said I wanted *detailed* problem reports? Probably my english is too bad because I think saying "After switching my NT machine to FullDuplex my FreeBSD server resets immidiately" is a detailed bug report. Or should I say it like this: "I switched my NT machine to FullDuplex and in the same second my FreeBSD Server shows a black screen and then I see the bios-output of my graphic card. After that I see the normal BIOS output and then the computer reboots my FreeBSD." > This is why. How do we know there isn't some really explicit panic > message on the console that's screaming: "I crashed because of the > following reason: ?" Maybe there's a message like that there, but > we'll never know unless you tell us! I would have told you any error messages. I think everybody would. > And you still haven't explained what you meant about the LoseNT > machine crashing before. As I said in an earlier mail: If there are too many collisions my NT server crashes. Sometimes it doesn't crash but I can't send any data over the net either. I think it has something to do with the TCP/IP protocol because I then can't ping the NT machine nor the FreeBSD server. I have to reboot NT and everything works fine again. I can easily reproduce this error. Even with another NT machine which shows the same problem. If I don't transfer much data on the net, like reading html-pages from my FreeBSD server, or listening to an mp3 file (via samba), I don't get any collisions and the NT machine doesn't crash. Well this bug report is probably not detailed enough for you, but that's what i experience and I just tell you what i see. If you tell me what EXACTLY i shall look for, I'll do. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 31 23:59: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from guard.polynet.lviv.ua (Guard.PolyNet.Lviv.UA [194.44.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABA081565F for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:58:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akorud@polynet.lviv.ua) Received: (qmail 96902 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 06:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO postoffice.polynet.lviv.ua) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 06:58:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 95031 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 06:58:52 -0000 Received: (ofmipd unknown); 1 Jun 1999 06:58:30 -0000 Date: 1 Jun 1999 09:58:51 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Andrij Korud" To: FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with ALI chipset MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-u" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, can you help me with problem with Aladdin V chipset and UDMA. Here is my dmesg when UDMA in bios is off: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Thu May 20 10:00:54 EEST 1999 akorud@gw.physics.franko.lviv.ua:/usr/src/sys/compile/Firewall Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 200454921 Hz CPU: Pentium/P55C (200.45-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x543 Stepping=3 Features=0x8001bf real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 62861312 (61388K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc0227000. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x04 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x04 on pci0.1.0 chip2: rev 0xb4 on pci0.7.0 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 15 on pci0.11.0 de0: 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:80:c8:7e:ef:d0 ide_pci0: rev 0x20 int a i rq 255 on pci0.15.0 ^^^ - what does this mean?!?!?!? Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 4892MB (10018890 sectors), 10602 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S and all is working fine. When I turn on UDMA, i got messages saying something like "irq timeout (DMA active)", sometimes it tell "probable a portable system" and even "Last time I say: irq timeout" And system does not working. Can you give me any suggestion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 0:11: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B2F14D85 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA72823; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:10:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199906010710.JAA72823@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Problems with ALI chipset In-Reply-To: from Andrij Korud at "Jun 1, 1999 9:58:51 am" To: akorud@polynet.lviv.ua (Andrij Korud) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:10:43 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Andrij Korud wrote: >Hi, can you help me with problem with Aladdin V chipset and UDMA. >Here is my dmesg when UDMA in bios is off: >[snip snap] >wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa >wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 >wd0: 4892MB (10018890 sectors), 10602 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > >and all is working fine. When I turn on UDMA, i got messages >saying something like "irq timeout (DMA active)", sometimes it tell >"probable a portable system" and even "Last time I say: irq timeout" >And system does not working. Hmm, you could try the new "ata" driver instead that does work in UDMA mode on the ALI chipset. -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 0:32:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A6815277; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23360; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:32:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:32:04 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Bill Paul Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dfr@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using newbus to hang a custom bus off a device In-Reply-To: <199905312309.TAA04790@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bill Paul wrote: > Well, after a bit of head scratching, I finally think I've gotten the > hang of the new bus architecture stuff (in general that is, not just > the new ISA and PCI stuff). I'm trying to create an miibus framework so > that I can have an miibus attached to those PCI ethernet drivers which > support MII-based transceivers, to which I can attach transceiver > drivers. I'm still a little confused by something though, probably > because I'm trying to do the development on 3.2-RELEASE (I don't have > a machine that I can clobber with -current just at the moment). > > Basically what I have is this: > > - An miibus_if.m file which describes the methods implemented by miibus > drivers. There are three methodes: a readreg method, which lets you > read a given register from a given PHY on the MII bus, a writereg > method, which lets you write a value to a given register on a given > PHY on the MII bus, and a status change method, which lets you tell > the driver which implements the miibus support that the status of a > PHY has changed and that the controller needs to update some state to > match it. (This is mainly to deal with controllers that have speed > and duplex settings that operate independently of the PHY: if the > PHY negotiates 100Mbps full duplex, then the controller chip to which > the PHY is attached may also need to be explicitly programmed for > 100Mbps full duplex to match the PHY.) > > - A stub mii PHY driver, which has its own probe and attach functions, > and which uses the following DRIVER_MODULE() macro: > > DRIVER_MODULE(miigeneric, miibus, mii_driver, mii_devclass, 0, 0); > > - Some stub code to be inserted into a NIC driver which implements > the miibus support. The code provides a probe routine (which checks > for MII support on the controller) but uses bus_generic_attach for > its attach routine. This, I believe, allows all of the mii driver > probes to be invoked after the bus is attached. The NIC driver also > uses a DRIVER_MODULE() macro like this: > > DRIVER_MODULE(miibus, ax, miibus_driver, miibus_devclass, 0, 0); > > (Here, "ax" represents the if_ax driver, which is what I used for > testing since the ASIX chipset uses an MII-based transeiver.) Sounds good so far. > > So, here's how I understand this: the MII driver is declared to be > in the 'miibus' devclass. And the if_ax driver declares an miibus device > which is attached to the ax devclass. Since this is 3.2-RELEASE, > I manually attach the ax device to the root_bus devclass using > device_add_child(). Then I do the following: > > miibus = device_add_child(sc->ax_device, "miibus", -1, NULL); > if (device_probe_and_attach(miibus)) { > device_delete_child(sc->ax_device, miibus); > return(ENODEV); > } > > Now, this is where I had to do some looking around: the fact that you > need to use device_add_child() is not clearly spelled out in the man > pages. Basically, the fact that the DRIVER_MODULE() modules declare > the driver hierarchy does not mean than device instances are actually > created. The DRIVER_MODULE() macros basically tell the system to expect > that an miibus could be created as a child of an ax device instance, and > that an miigeneric device could be created as a child of an miibus instance, > but you actually need to use device_add_child() to call the device > instance into existence. Thats right. I needed to make a clear distinction between the device instance and the driver since there can be many (or no) devices using a single driver (e.g. sio[0-3]). It is normally the responsibility of a parent device to decide if it has children and add them using device_add_child() if appropriate. For -current, I have added a mechanism so that drivers can be asked to search for and add devices. I use this mechanism to populate the isa bus through the isahint (and soon the pnp) driver. If a parent device is using this mechanism to add its children, it must call bus_generic_probe() from its probe method which will call the DEVICE_IDENTIFY method (a static method, i.e. not specific to a device instance) of each driver in the class. These drivers may call BUS_ADD_CHILD to add devices to the parent device if any are found. The parent device must implement BUS_ADD_CHILD, mainly to allow it to allocate and initialise the ivars for the new device. I guess I could provide a bus_generic_add_child() which used a NULL ivars. > > Similarly, in the miibus probe routine, you have to check for PHYs > on the miibus and call device_add_child() to create a device node > for each PHY on the bus. (I use device_add_child(dev, NULL, -1, NULL) > for this, because you don't know ahead of time exactly which driver > will be attached.) Then, bus_generic_attach() will call the probe > routines of all the PHY drivers that are declared to be in the miibus > devclass, and whichever driver supports the discovered PHY claims the > device instance. > > Now, given all that, here are the questions that I have: > > - In -current, assuming that a PCI NIC driver has been properly > newbus-ified, is it still necessary for the driver to manually > call device_add_child() to create the miibus device instance and then > call device_probe_and_attach() to get the PHY drivers into the > picture? I think the answer is yes, because I don't see any other > way for it to work. Yes, unless you use DEVICE_IDENTIFY. > > - Suppose that I want to probe for PHYs on the miibus in a particular > order? All MII-compliant PHYs implement a standard set of registers, > so in theory it's possible to write just a single generic PHY driver > which will handle all PHYs. However, sometimes a given PHY will > require some special handling. So, what I want to do is have expliclt > PHY drivers to handle certain PHYs and have a catch-all generic driver > to handle any other device that isn't handled by one of the explicit > PHY drivers. This implies that the probe routine of the generic device > will be invoked last. If the generic device probe is invoked first, > then all PHYs will get the generic driver attached, which is not what > I want. Is there some way to weight the drivers such that the specific > ones will have a higher priority than the generic one, thereby forcing > the specific probes to be called first? I don't have a mechanism for changing the order of the probes but (in current only) a probe method can return a priority value. The highest priority returned from any probe 'wins'. Since the probe methods can return errno values, success is denoted by returning a value <= 0. The driver which returns the highest such value is chosen with a special case that the first driver which returns zero is selected immediately. You could arrange the mii drivers so that the generic driver returns -1 and the specific drivers return 0 and this should select the right driver. To make this work, you must avoid side effects in the probe method (memory allocation, resource allocation etc) since a successful probe doesn't guarantee that attach will be called (unless the probe returned zero). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 0:37:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D461B1523E for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 95579 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Jun 1999 07:37:26 +0000 (GMT) To: maret@axis.de Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:58:30 +0200 " References: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E4F@erlangen01.axis.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:37:26 +0200 Message-ID: <95577.928222646@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think that so many collisions are normal! I think there is a > problem, because at work we nearly only use 3COM 100 Mbit cards and > don't have much collisions. Even under high load! Collisions on half-duplex Ethernet are *normal*. Get used to it. Collisions is the standard flow control mechanism for half-duplex Ethernet. The amount of collisions you get depend on the cards used, the amount of traffic, and several other things. The amount of collisions is also not very interesting - the amount of *traffic* is. If you connect two hosts to a hub and run ttcp, to push a lot of traffic between them, you're very likely to get a 50% collision rate - with only two hosts. This is because *every* ack collides with a normal full sized packet. This is also perfectly fine and healthy. What you want to watch out for, is: - Late collisions (these are *not* normal) - Collisions when you think that the link is in full duplex mode. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:10:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6620F15646 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 08:10:17 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E52@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: "'sthaug@nethelp.no'" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:09:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > Collisions on half-duplex Ethernet are *normal*. Get used to it. > > Collisions is the standard flow control mechanism for > half-duplex Ethernet. > The amount of collisions you get depend on the cards used, > the amount of > traffic, and several other things. The amount of collisions > is also not > very interesting - the amount of *traffic* is. Well as i described in a previous mail to Bill Paul, i tried to transfer two times 30MB of data via samba: At first I tried my FreeBSD machine and I got about 800-900 collisions. Second I booted on the same machine linux and I only got 4 (!) collisions. Bill Paul said to me that the FreeBSD TCP/IP is probably much faster. Well I'm sure that he is right, but from my point of view it didn't take longer to tranfer the files with linux. Anyway, i promised Bill Paul to measure exact values. Then we will see. I have no problem with thousands or millions of collissions, as long as they don't crash my computer. I just want a running system. And as my NT machine didn't crash on transfering a huge amount of data from a linux-server I have to think that this is a bug in something FreeBSD related. The only difference I could see between the two configurations were the collissions and as somebody on the list said there were problems with the xl driver under high load i wrote a letter to Bill Paul. I think I will simply switch to another card. Someone on the list said that their customer didn't have any problems after switching to intel cards. I don't want to switch back to linux again, because FreeBSD is much smoother. > If you connect two hosts to a hub and run ttcp, to push a lot > of traffic > between them, you're very likely to get a 50% collision rate > - with only > two hosts. This is because *every* ack collides with a normal > full sized > packet. This is also perfectly fine and healthy. > > What you want to watch out for, is: > > - Late collisions (these are *not* normal) > - Collisions when you think that the link is in full duplex mode. I will do further investigation to get more detailed infos. Unfotunately I'm very busy at the moment but I'll post more information as soon i get some results. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:11:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F22B15646 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@acm.org) Received: (qmail 7726 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Jun 1999 03:21:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990601032124.7725.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 13:21:24 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Bill Paul Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199905290448.AAA28640@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> In-reply-to: <199905290448.AAA28640@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> of Sat, 29 May 1999 00:48:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Paul writes: > If you have a real, detailed and accurate bug report to submit, then fine: > let's hear it. But if you just want to make vague and unsubstantiated > complaints, do me a favor and just keep it to yourself. This whole argument strikes me as a good wake up call for all of us. It really is important to make sure that problems with software are reported and that those reports are framed in a useful manner, because that is the only way that software gets improved. I'm sometimes guilty of not bothering to report bugs that I can easily work around, even though I hate it when people who use my software do the same. I'm re-motivated now to make the effort to contribute meaningful reports whenever I find bugs. As an aside, my experience with the xl driver (ever since I added it in to 2.2.7) has been completely positive, so I can't help with fixing any possible problems there. As for Dennis, he's just not worth responding to. He has a bad reputation as a total waste of space with an attitude problem as big as Texas. Just ignore him. -- Greg Black -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:31:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84C5814DE8 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 08:31:26 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E54@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:31:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Black [mailto:gjb@acm.org] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. Juni 1999 05:21 > To: Bill Paul > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com > > This whole argument strikes me as a good wake up call for all of > us. It really is important to make sure that problems with > software are reported and that those reports are framed in a > useful manner, because that is the only way that software gets > improved. I'm sometimes guilty of not bothering to report bugs > that I can easily work around, even though I hate it when people > who use my software do the same. I'm re-motivated now to make > the effort to contribute meaningful reports whenever I find bugs. I think you're absolutely right but consider normal users like me. I try to provider as many information as I can, but for developpers this isn't enough. Instead of saying: "Provide information!". You should ask detailed questions. > As for Dennis, he's just not worth responding to. He has a bad > reputation as a total waste of space with an attitude problem as > big as Texas. Just ignore him. Well this, I think, is the wrong way. You expect people to know as much as you. I think you can rewrite code on the fly, but many people can't and they need help from hackers like you. There are so many FreeBSD-Hackers who are whining that Linux has so many users and FreeBSD hasn't. If people don't get support because people like you are ignoring them, they won't switch to FreeBSD even if it is much better. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:43:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from agamaweb.agama.ru (www.agama.com [195.94.226.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E42F314EF1 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrey@agama.com) Received: from [195.94.226.144] by agamaweb.agama.com (NTMail 4.01.0008/NU2432.00.3e8112ca) with ESMTP id bmabaaaa for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:39:25 +0400 Message-ID: <000c01beac0a$e05e9d20$90e25ec3@agama.ru> From: "Andrew Iltchenko" To: Subject: Mmap len Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:43:52 +0400 Organization: Agama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEAC2C.67628180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEAC2C.67628180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a question concerning the maximum length allowed to be mapped by = the mmap? Is it still limited to 2GB as the manual pages say or the restriction = has been overcome? ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEAC2C.67628180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a question concerning the maximum length = allowed to be=20 mapped by the mmap?
 
Is it still limited to 2GB as the manual pages = say or the=20 restriction has been overcome?
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEAC2C.67628180-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:45:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCE0150E1 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:45:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.00 #1) id 10okAD-0006FQ-00; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:44:49 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Alexander Maret Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:31:21 +0200." <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E54@erlangen01.axis.de> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:44:49 +0200 Message-ID: <24015.928226689@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:31:21 +0200, Alexander Maret wrote: > There are so many FreeBSD-Hackers who are whining that Linux has so > many users and FreeBSD hasn't. No there are not. There are many FreeBSD enthusiasts who are whining that Linux has so many users and FreeBSD hasn't. FreeBSD _developers_ seem to be more concerned with producing a rock-solid operating system than producing a popular operating system. That is why most of the folks working on FreeBSD are more interested in meaningful problem reports than arm-waving fanatics. If there's a choice between keeping happy 100 people who don't know what's going on, or working with 10 people who do, most folks are going to choose to ignore the 100 for the sake of the 10. Not because they despise people who don't know what's going on, but because they can get good results out of people who do. This is natural and healthy given the objective of the FreeBSD project, which has never been to take over the world. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:56:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1130B150E1 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:56:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 08:56:46 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E55@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: 'Sheldon Hearn' Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:56:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheldon Hearn [mailto:sheldonh@uunet.co.za] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. Juni 1999 10:45 > To: Alexander Maret > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com > > FreeBSD _developers_ seem to be more concerned with producing a > rock-solid operating system than producing a popular operating system. > That is why most of the folks working on FreeBSD are more > interested in > meaningful problem reports than arm-waving fanatics. Sure, everybody likes the easy way. > If there's a choice between keeping happy 100 people who don't know > what's going on, or working with 10 people who do, most folks > are going > to choose to ignore the 100 for the sake of the 10. Not because they > despise people who don't know what's going on, but because > they can get > good results out of people who do. Sure you can get better results working with 10 people who do know what's going on but if there are possible bugs and you just ignore the 100 people and say "they're idiots who can't post real bug reports and who can't configure their system" you won't get a rock-stable os. Even if 99% of the "bug reports" are configuration errors you can't ignore the 1%. Otherwise you won't get FreeBSD rock-stable. You have to deal with every user and ignoring people is no solution. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 1:57:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81A0150E1 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D186418D0; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AC349D3; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:58:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: fretre Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question about boot code In-Reply-To: <000901beabff$acc11de0$25353f0a@k> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, fretre wrote: > 1. I try to learn something about boot code with version 3.0. I > wander whether I can begin with biosboot?(/usr/src/sys/i386/ > boot/biosboot) The 3.0 boot code is located in /usr/src/sys/boot > 2. The initialized data will be loaded into memory after kernel > text during boot stage. And where is the file that the > initialized data is defined in? and > 3. What's the file name? If you mean the 'initialized kernel data', then it's stored in the file /kernel itself (or whatever file you boot from) in section '.data' of the ELF file. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 2: 1:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0A7150E1 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:01:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA26659; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:01:22 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:01:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Alexander Maret Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E54@erlangen01.axis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This comparison with Linux is completely off. The number of knowledgable people working on USB for example is equivalent to the ones in FreeBSD. Most of the people talking on linux-usb are talkers not do-ers. FreeBSD developers do things in their spare time and they want other people to respect that. They want to see some investment from the other side as well to make it worthwhile. And if that trade off is not what you want, there are companies out there that solve problems for money (http://www.freebsd.org). Skipping to another card is short-term thinking. You assume that without your participation a new driver will be developed for another card, or another operating system will provide you with services. Who is 'paying' for that development then? Cheers, Nick > Well this, I think, is the wrong way. You expect people to know as > much as you. I think you can rewrite code on the fly, but > many people can't and they need help from hackers like you. > There are so many FreeBSD-Hackers who are whining that Linux has so > many users and FreeBSD hasn't. If people don't get support because > people like you are ignoring them, they won't switch to FreeBSD even > if it is much better. > > > Alex > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 2:14:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA516150DB for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:14:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 09:14:47 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E57@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: 'Nick Hibma' Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:14:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hibma [mailto:nick.hibma@jrc.it] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. Juni 1999 11:01 > To: Alexander Maret > Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list > Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com > > This comparison with Linux is completely off. The number of > knowledgable > people working on USB for example is equivalent to the ones > in FreeBSD. What do you want to tell me with this sentence? Don't you like to be compared with linux? Well, if the same configuration runs on linux and not on a FreeBSD system then it can be a configuration error or a bug. Well if there are difference people always will compare. I compared those system to show that it can't be a hardware error because it runs with other systems. > FreeBSD developers do things in their spare time and they want other > people to respect that. They want to see some investment from > the other > side as well to make it worthwhile. > And if that trade off is not what > you want, there are companies out there that solve problems for money > (http://www.freebsd.org). Well what do you want then? You're on the one hand whining that people don't post bug reports and on the other hand you say: "Go away and ask other people". I didn't want configuration support but wanted to show that there is an ERROR!!! > Skipping to another card is short-term thinking. You assume > that without > your participation a new driver will be developed for another card, or > another operating system will provide you with services. You're wrong! I tried to participate but everybody just told me that I'm an idiot. Well perhaps they're right but if nobody wants to hear my bug report then I'll use another card. A card which driver has been better tested and where gifted programmers did the bug reports. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 2:58:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8EB14D97; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29540; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:26:19 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199906010956.TAA29540@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: alex@cichlids.com (Alexander Langer) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:26:18 +0930 (CST) Cc: newton@internode.com.au, akm@mail.theinternet.com.au, eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990531200328.A12484@cichlids.cichlids.com> from "Alexander Langer" at May 31, 99 08:03:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > > but for most people who just want to build a handful of ports, > > browse the tree to see if there's anything cool they want, and > > then forget the ports tree 'til the next upgrade, it'll cut > > How do you want to find out if the port fits your needs without a > DESCR file? /usr/ports/INDEX ? - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 2:58:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5323150E8 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:58:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA29905; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:57:55 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:57:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Alexander Maret Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E57@erlangen01.axis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > FreeBSD developers do things in their spare time and they want > > people to respect that. They want to see some investment from > > the other side as well to make it worthwhile. > > And if that trade off is not what > > you want, there are companies out there that solve problems for money > > (http://www.freebsd.org). > > Well what do you want then? You're on the one hand whining that people don't > post bug reports and on the other hand you say: "Go away and ask other > people". > I didn't want configuration support but wanted to show that there is an > ERROR!!! The discussion started with a remark about the fact that 3Com cards have problems under load, without a backing of that statement. That is the thing that made people trip over. It is a statement that is not the least helpful for anyone on the hackers mailing list and will not trigger help from anyone, apart from responses from people being frustrated about not being able to help (sounds silly but it is true, their puppy is being attacked without them being able to respond). > You're wrong! I tried to participate but everybody just told me that I'm an > idiot. Well perhaps they're right but if nobody wants to hear my bug report > then I'll use another card. A card which driver has been better tested and > where gifted programmers did the bug reports. You think along the lines of least resistance for solving your problems, while developers think along the lines of highest resistance to get bugs sorted out. Added to that was quite a bit of (justifiable) frustration from Bill P. side. And I don't think people call you an idiot and if they did, they are wrong. They are however entitled to express their opinion in a for them suitable way and should be read with their background and a context, you might not be fully aware of, in mind. Do not mistake this for people being angry at you. If you are able to read emotions from an e-mail accurately, you have a very special gift. Maybe we should revert to posting patches. They are easier to read. Nick. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 3: 7:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.axis.de (hermes.axis.de [194.163.241.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48CDF1525E for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maret@axis.de) Received: from erlangen01.axis.de by hermes.axis.de via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 10:07:30 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E5B@erlangen01.axis.de> From: Alexander Maret To: 'Nick Hibma' Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:07:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hibma [mailto:nick.hibma@jrc.it] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. Juni 1999 11:58 > To: Alexander Maret > Cc: 'hackers@freebsd.org' > Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com > > > > The discussion started with a remark about the fact that 3Com > cards have > problems under load, without a backing of that statement. That is the > thing that made people trip over. It is a statement that is not the > least helpful for anyone on the hackers mailing list and will not > trigger help from anyone, apart from responses from people being > frustrated about not being able to help (sounds silly but it is > true, their puppy is being attacked without them being able to > respond). > Yes, I read this remark and then decided to write to the developer because I had such a problem. I tried to post as many information as I could. Well it was not enough for Bill, but instead everyone just saying: "Provide information" people should ask questions. You will only exactly get what you want if you ask exact questions. Alex. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 3:17: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF31B14E4C; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA30081; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:45:44 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199906011015.TAA30081@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: alex@cichlids.com (Alexander Langer) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:45:44 +0930 (CST) Cc: newton@internode.com.au, akm@mail.theinternet.com.au, eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990601121027.A16920@cichlids.cichlids.com> from "Alexander Langer" at Jun 1, 99 12:10:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > > > DESCR file? > > /usr/ports/INDEX ? > > Isn't the DESCR much more detailed than this INDEX file? > (compare mail/mutt/pkg/DESCR and the INDEX file) Use INDEX to work out whether the package *might* be appropriate, and use something like "make buildenv" to grab the DESCR file (and everything else) if you think it's useful to do so. I think most novices probably don't even know the DESCR file exists anyway. - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 3:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (as5-009.rp-plus.de [149.221.239.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E977E15712; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:17:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA84751; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:10:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16951; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:10:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) From: Alexander Langer Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:10:27 +0200 To: Mark Newton Cc: akm@mail.theinternet.com.au, eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990601121027.A16920@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <19990531200328.A12484@cichlids.cichlids.com> <199906010956.TAA29540@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199906010956.TAA29540@gizmo.internode.com.au> X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > > DESCR file? > /usr/ports/INDEX ? Isn't the DESCR much more detailed than this INDEX file? (compare mail/mutt/pkg/DESCR and the INDEX file) Alex -- ************** I doubt, therefore I might be. ************** *** Send email to to get PGP-Key *** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 3:19:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D400D15390 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id MAA01363; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:19:18 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:19:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Alexander Maret Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E5B@erlangen01.axis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, I read this remark and then decided to write to the developer > because I had such a problem. I tried to post as many information > as I could. Well it was not enough for Bill, but instead everyone > just saying: "Provide information" people should ask questions. > You will only exactly get what you want if you ask exact questions. True. But you do have to know what the problem actually is when trying to ask questions. But let's get back to solving problems. Using two machines running 2.2.6 with Bill Paul's latest drivers for 2.2.x I've been able to make the machine go strange. It looks like it can't find DNS over the XL interface anymore (long timeouts on TAB in bash). The problem showed with ping -f from each machine to the other and a tcpblast with a packet size of 32768 and 100000 packets (I will send the patch for tcpblast if the problem is reproducable). I don't know whether the problem is the packet size, but all of a sudden even the ping -f went down from 100kb a second to 4kb and the tcpblast was terminated. I also do not knw which machine actually went down (whether it was the one sending or receiving from tcpblast). I'll rig up two 3.2 machines this afternoon and see if I can reproduce the problem. If anyone has better suggestions on which programs to run to reproduce the problem, let me know. tcpblast was a first guess. Cheers, Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 3:46:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (mail.metropolitan.at [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5032C1529C for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:48:55 +0200 Message-ID: <55586E7391ACD211B9730000C1100276179635@r-lmh-wi-100.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Peter Jeremy' , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a two-level port system? Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:43:44 +0200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Disadvantages: > - Unpacked ports will use about twice as much disk space (3 times if > you include the original CVS archive). > - ar(1) may need some tweaks to allow pathnames (not just filenames) > as object names (and maybe to create directories). > - Updating ports is not as easy (the port needs to be > unpacked/repacked > in the same order, with modification times and gid/uid maintained > to stop the deltas bloating). > > Comments anyone? > [ML] That is exactly the same idea I had, using a pseudoshar (a Perl script, actually) I'm working on it :) The script is a 100-liner, and the pseudoshar format is chosen so that no ownership and time information is stored in it, thus keeping deltas minimal. Furthermore, the files are included in alphabetic order, again reducing the deltas. I will be adding port_info as well, capable of browsing embedded DESC, CONTENTS, etc files. port_make will automatically extract the files and create directories and then change the directory to the port top (and thus the current dependency build changes from cd make install to port_make make install port_make will take additional make targets, and if present do the make with targets as well. Thusly, port_make install will do the whole thing. /Marino > Peter > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 4:12:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084E715030 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01994; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:12:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199906011112.HAA01994@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith Cc: "stan@osgroup.com" , "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 17:15:24 PDT." <199905310015.RAA12765@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:12:05 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mike@smith.net.au said: :- there are certain classes of users that it's in our interests _not_ :- to attract. So, Mike, when will you be issuing the official FreeBSD Qualification Test (FQT), and issuing a License to Use FreeBSD (LUF)? Sheesh! :-( --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 4:54:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from juprintfw01-ext.pmusa.com (juprintfw01.pmusa.com [208.221.155.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5877F1527C for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Steven.J.Sims@pmusa.com) Received: from [148.128.68.94] by juprintfw01-ext.pmusa.com via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 11:54:16 UT Received: by bridgehead1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4404C680FCF4D2119DF900805FE6969528D349@PMUUSRICEXMB1> From: "Sims, Steven J." To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Library dysfunction in 3.2-STABLE Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:53:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Excuse my inattention and impertinence, but I've CVSUP'ed 3.2-STABLE a > couple of times in the last couple of weeks and it appears that at every > turn another set of applications don't run in the new environment. > > At first it appeared it was just the old a.out files that weren't happy, > but > now I'm seeing link/library-rot in files that I know where built ELF in > the > last month or so. > > Plus, some off-the-shelf stuff (e.g.: dnews 4.7 *and 5.x)) is broken. > I've searched the mailing list archives and the release notes / errata for 3.2, with no success. > Have I missed something in the lists? > > ...sjs... > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 5:43:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from well.apcs.com.au (well.apcs.com.au [203.41.122.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F08B15668 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 05:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@well.apcs.com.au) Received: (from keith@localhost) by well.apcs.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA02676 for hackers@freeBSD.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:37:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:37:56 +1000 (EST) From: Keith Anderson To: hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: contract programer required Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, Looking for someone to do part time contract work. All type of OS FreeBSD, DOS and WIN95 A good all round programer ? http://www.apcs.com.au/work.html Thanks Keith Anderson "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed FreeBSD." ** The thing I like most about Windows 98 is... ** You can download FreeBSD with it! ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Keith Anderson Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. Date: 01-Jun-99 Time: 22:28:25 Satelite Service 64K to 2Meg This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- What's the similarity between an air conditioner and a computer? They both stop working when you open windows. ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 6:13:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (as5-004.rp-plus.de [149.221.239.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A81150F5; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA85064; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:26:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17537; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:26:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) From: Alexander Langer Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:26:15 +0200 To: Mark Newton Cc: akm@mail.theinternet.com.au, eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@webgiro.com, taavi@uninet.ee, kaj@raditex.se, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Message-ID: <19990601132615.A17505@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <19990601121027.A16920@cichlids.cichlids.com> <199906011015.TAA30081@gizmo.internode.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199906011015.TAA30081@gizmo.internode.com.au> X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Mark Newton (newton@internode.com.au): > I think most novices probably don't even know the DESCR file > exists anyway. Exactly, when I was new I used lynx and the included .html-files for each package to find out what it is. Ok. if you can remove the buildenv-stuff when the package is not that what you want, this might be ok. But you should then have a build-env-distfile dir, because I often reinstall a port after a while i've not used it, and so the distfiles often are still there. If you have no buildenv-distfile-directory, you need a connection to the internet to build it :( Alex -- ************** I doubt, therefore I might be. ************** *** Send email to to get PGP-Key *** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 6:32:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beowulf.utmb.edu (beowulf.utmb.edu [129.109.59.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE0A150F5 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu) Received: (from bdodson@localhost) by beowulf.utmb.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA87107; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:29:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bdodson) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:29:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906011329.IAA87107@beowulf.utmb.edu> From: "M. L. Dodson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Alexander Maret Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E55@erlangen01.axis.de> References: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E55@erlangen01.axis.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Maret writes: > Hi, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sheldon Hearn [mailto:sheldonh@uunet.co.za] > > Sent: Dienstag, 1. Juni 1999 10:45 > > To: Alexander Maret > > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com > > > > FreeBSD _developers_ seem to be more concerned with producing a > > rock-solid operating system than producing a popular operating system. > > That is why most of the folks working on FreeBSD are more > > interested in > > meaningful problem reports than arm-waving fanatics. > > Sure, everybody likes the easy way. > > > If there's a choice between keeping happy 100 people who don't know > > what's going on, or working with 10 people who do, most folks > > are going > > to choose to ignore the 100 for the sake of the 10. Not because they > > despise people who don't know what's going on, but because > > they can get > > good results out of people who do. > > Sure you can get better results working with 10 people who do know > what's going on but if there are possible bugs and you just ignore > the 100 people and say "they're idiots who can't post real bug reports > and who can't configure their system" you won't get a rock-stable os. > Even if 99% of the "bug reports" are configuration errors you can't > ignore the 1%. Otherwise you won't get FreeBSD rock-stable. You have > to deal with every user and ignoring people is no solution. > > Alex > > > > Well, I've been subscribed to freebsd-questions for the last couple of weeks to see how things are going in the "user community", and, I must say, I do not remember seeing your name attached to any answers to questions over there. So the points are raised: If the 1% is so important, why do you not help them out in the forum where they are most prevalent? Are you not ignoring them? Bud Dodson -- M. L. Dodson bdodson@scms.utmb.edu 409-772-2178 FAX: 409-772-1790 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 6:50:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87AC1156D5 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:50:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15605 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA19991; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:49:54 -0400 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA10195 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:49:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199906011349.JAA10195@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: ECC drive data recovery? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:49:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, We're seeing the following message on one of the drives we have mounted in a server system. (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 46 aa 50 0 0 40 0 (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): RECOVERED ERROR info:46aa77 asc:18,7 (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): Recovered data with ECC - data rewritten sks:80,1a I've already got a replacement coming, but I was curious to know if anyone knows if the above means the existing data was recovered and written to the same, or different(spare) location? Thanks, John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 6:52:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC90C156E9 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23841; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01622; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id JAA06912; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199906011352.JAA06912@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jwd@unx.sas.com Subject: Re: ECC drive data recovery? In-Reply-To: <199906011349.JAA10195@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi, > > We're seeing the following message on one of the drives we have > mounted in a server system. > > (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 0 0 46 aa 50 0 0 40 0 > (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): RECOVERED ERROR info:46aa77 asc:18,7 > (da23:ahc1:0:14:0): Recovered data with ECC - data rewritten sks:80,1a > > > I've already got a replacement coming, but I was curious to know > if anyone knows if the above means the existing data was recovered > and written to the same, or different(spare) location? > > Thanks, > John I'd hazard a guess that "data rewritten" means it was written to a spare location... but, it's just a guess. - Dave R. - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 7:26: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6230014F1A; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA008981758; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:09:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Max Khon Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Max Khon wrote: > I have very (VERY!) bad link to anoncvs.freebsd.org. are there other > anoncvs servers? Not to my knowledge, though FreeBSD.org has a few co-located machines, I'm sure one could run an anoncvs mirror. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 7:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B83157B4; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA010781969; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:12:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:12:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Luigi Rizzo , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , mladavac@metropolitan.at, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990601071242.A58405@bitbox.follo.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > There are a number of solutions available: > (1) Change 'make release' to scan the ports collection and create an > mtree file beforehand; apply the mtree file before extracting the > collection. This will make the inode layout more efficient. I think this is a very realistic, easy thing to do. Maybe I'll work on a patch.. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 7:39:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.rochester.rr.com (mail2-0.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDCF14EA3 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leisner@rochester.rr.com) Received: from rochester.rr.com ([24.93.25.135]) by mail2.rochester.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-53939U80000L80000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:42:29 -0400 Received: from soyata.home (leisner@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rochester.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02268; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:39:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199906011439.KAA02268@rochester.rr.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 Reply-To: leisner@rochester.rr.com To: John Birrell Cc: dscheidt@enteract.com (David Scheidt), mike@smith.net.au, jake@checker.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 10:30:56 +1000." <199905310030.KAA28675@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:39:20 -0400 From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I found the question/answer kernel configuration maddening on Linux. Linux has a tk based script (xconfig) which is pretty good... Marty Leisner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 7:50:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD65115766 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16436; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3753F33E.74DAA18C@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:50:38 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing special device files References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > I write a small program to read/write each FreeBSD partition via special > device file names, e.g. /dev/wd0s2e, /dev/rwd0s2e, etc. I have two > questions about doing this: > > (1) If I try to read() on these files, the buffer size must be given in > multiples of 512 (sector size). Otherwise, I will get an EINVAL error. > Why is this the case? Does the same thing happen to the write() system > call? > > (2) I use lseek() on these device files, it returns the correct offset for > me. But actually it does not work. I read in a recent posting saying that > you can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work unless the file descriptor > is associated with a regular file because file size information is not > available at that level. Does this apply to all kinds of lseek(), include > SEEK_SET and SEEK_CUR? Or maybe the offset must also given in a multiple > of 512 for some reason. If I give lseek(fd, 8193, SEEK_SET), it will > actually do lseek(fd, 8192, SEEK_SET)? They're block devices, they can only be read, written, and seeked in terms of their native block size. The block size is typically 512 bytes for disks, other types of media (like CD-ROM) may vary greatly from this. If you want to read, write, or seek to arbitrary ranges, use the "raw" devices, i.e. rwd0s2e. These are character devices that will allow you to read, write, and seek to arbitrary byte locations on the device; the kernel handles the buffering and blocking for you. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8: 0:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2EE15085 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA27210; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906011500.IAA27210@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Alexander Maret Cc: "'sthaug@nethelp.no'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:00:05 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:09:59 +0200 Alexander Maret wrote: > At first I tried my FreeBSD machine and I got about 800-900 collisions. > Second I booted on the same machine linux and I only got 4 (!) collisions. It's also possible that Linux isn't counting the collisions properly. > I have no problem with thousands or millions of collissions, as long as > they don't crash my computer. I just want a running system. Collisions don't cause your system to crash. If this is happening, something else is at fault (though that something else may be an unrelated problem in the Ethernet driver). -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:10:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D3415085 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA21673; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:09:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Ayan George Cc: Steve Ames , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UID Limits References: <199905261252.IAA10076@kiwi.datasys.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 01 Jun 1999 17:09:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ayan George's message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 08:52:26 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ayan George writes: > Yes, pwd_mkdb compares the UID with USHRT_MAX. I wonder if there > is a macro that defines the maximum GID and UID like: It's just a warning which was put there because some software incorrectly stores UIDs in unsigned short ints rather than uid_ts and thus does not grok large UIDs. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:12:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A0215711; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA21687; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:12:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Steve Ames Cc: ayan@kiwi.datasys.net, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UID Limits References: <199905270318.WAA92247@ns1.cioe.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 01 Jun 1999 17:12:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: Steve Ames's message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 22:18:48 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [gack, let's get the Cc: right this time around] Steve Ames writes: > The question is "What is the maximum UID?". Its either a 2 or 4 > byte unsigned integer. The filesystem seems to accept 4, pwd_mkdb > complains about larger than 2 but lets you do it... pwd_mkdb warns about UIDs greater than USHRT_MAX because some old (third-party) software stores UIDs in unsigned short ints instead of uid_t and therefore does not grok large UIDs. The warning is harmless (unless you run some of that old software) and should most certainly not be changed or removed. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:14:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.cioe.com (ns1.cioe.com [204.120.165.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FD415745; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@ns1.cioe.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by ns1.cioe.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA11100; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:14:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:14:29 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199906011514.KAA11100@ns1.cioe.com> To: des@flood.ping.uio.no, steve@cioe.com Subject: Re: UID Limits Cc: ayan@kiwi.datasys.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for the answers on this. This certainly makes my life simpler. That 65K limit was about to become real annoying :) -Steve > From des@flood.ping.uio.no Tue Jun 1 10:12:21 1999 > To: Steve Ames > Cc: ayan@kiwi.datasys.net, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: UID Limits > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav > Date: 01 Jun 1999 17:12:18 +0200 > > [gack, let's get the Cc: right this time around] > > Steve Ames writes: > > The question is "What is the maximum UID?". Its either a 2 or 4 > > byte unsigned integer. The filesystem seems to accept 4, pwd_mkdb > > complains about larger than 2 but lets you do it... > > pwd_mkdb warns about UIDs greater than USHRT_MAX because some old > (third-party) software stores UIDs in unsigned short ints instead of > uid_t and therefore does not grok large UIDs. The warning is harmless > (unless you run some of that old software) and should most certainly > not be changed or removed. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:21: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C679D14C89 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@sr.hp.com) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com (srmail.sr.hp.com [15.4.45.14]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id LAA13723 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA042060455; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:20:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (darrylo@mina.sr.hp.com [15.4.42.247]) by mina.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id IAA04464 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906011520.IAA04464@mina.sr.hp.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a two-level port system? Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:44:28 +1000." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.1.1.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:20:54 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > How about storing each port as a single file in ar(5) format, which is > unpacked into the directory structure when make'd? ar(5) is a text > format, which means it can easily be managed by CVS, which includes > a tool for manipulating its contents - ar(1). This isn't all that different from the existing *.tar.gz port files. If you use those, you get all the advantages of your approach, plus fewer disadvantages: > Benefits: > - The ports tree would become ~2500 inodes and ~~32MB. > - The entire ports tree is still available on the machine. - No need to change port process to handle ar files. - No need to CVS commit ar files. (BTW, CVS can also handle binary files, so ASCII vs. binary is a non-issue.) - Smaller size than ar files. > > Disadvantages: > - Unpacked ports will use about twice as much disk space (3 times if > you include the original CVS archive). -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:27:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0668C14C89 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA031855479; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:11:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:11:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darryl Okahata Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? In-Reply-To: <199906011520.IAA04464@mina.sr.hp.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Darryl Okahata wrote: > - No need to CVS commit ar files. (BTW, CVS can also handle binary > files, so ASCII vs. binary is a non-issue.) CVS handles binary files poorly. It is an issue. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:47:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD6C14E08 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16556; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:46:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37540045.8836986@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:46:13 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Huey Cc: David Scheidt , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script References: <199905312250.PAA00420@mag.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Huey wrote: > > > Inter-UNIX rivalries are one of things that has kept unix healthy for so > > long. Linux tends to pick up most of the 3L1t3 dudez, who don't know > > You must be joking me. Just about every other systems person I've talked > to in past 5 years, (including me) would highly disagree with that citing > that Unix fragementation is the main reason why Unix isn't more successful > commericially. No, he isn't joking, and you are making the mistake of equating commercial success with health. That leads to systems like WinNT, which is obviously much more commercially successful than any UNIX. (This isn't true, by the way, but I defy you to learn that from the popular press.) > Linux can be cited as the main unifying force propelling > Unix's come back. This of course assumes that one buys into the notion > that NT would obsolete Unix in a few years, which I never did in the first > place. Linux can be cited as any damn thing you please, when you're quoting yourself or a bunch of Linux fanatics. That certainly doesn't make it so. > It's doing so by unifying various fragmented group of people and is the main > movement forcing folks like Apple release their source code publically to > other devs. It's doing so by the exact same mentality that Microsoft has brought us through the years: least common denominator functionality that runs on the widest array of garbage hardware. > This is a very powerfully set of indicator of the Linux phenomenom and it > *must* be respected. Only if you're in this for money. Again, you seem to be equating commercial popularity with success. This is an attitude not necessarily shared by many here. It is puzzling to watch this mindset overtake the Linux crowd, who two years ago completely shunned commercialism of any sort. I for one will be amused as the commercial success of Linux becomes its downfall. > > anything but how to follow a How-To. I don't have a problem with letting > > HOW-TOs are useful and I person don't see why FreeBSD folks still talk down > to Linux folks. Even kernel tweekers that I know find those things useable. You don't understand: we're happy that Linux exists to server those users. Every Linux user is a user who isn't being raped by Microsoft. Since Linux exists to serve the less technically sophisticated who want to opt out of the Microsoft treadmill, we don't feel ANY need to help them, because Linux fits their needs perfectly and their wants and desires are less interesting to us than the wants and desires of the "technical elite." FreeBSD and Linux have always co-existed, and this is a good thing. > > someone else deal with annoying lusers. When they get a clue, and realize > > that FreeBSD has substantial advantages over Linux, then we can deal with > > them. It would be nice if there were some migration documentation. (And > > Well, the claim above seems overstated to me at this time and won't be clear > until I monitor various kernel discussions and explore/test FreeBSD. Linux > and FreeBSD have more similarities than differences from what I can tell. You haven't looked that closely. They're both UNIX-like systems that run on small computers. Beyond that, they start diverging pretty quickly. > This debate seems to artificially create a difference between the 2 kernels > that I don't really see existing except possibly with kernel memory allocation > and management. The differences seem to be created out of something emotionally > reactive than concretely tangible. You'll learn this is not true as you delve more deeply into the subject. The biggest overall difference between FreeBSD (or any BSD system) and Linux is in depth. Linux is a relatively new system, and has still had relatively few design cycles under it's belt, and still contains a lot of single positive-path coding. In other words, it works fine until you stress it, but when you really push it, it just returns errors instead of degrading performance reasonably. One of the beacons of the "Freenix" movement is the ability to turn castoff machines into workable computers again, but Linux often falls over with load when you try this, in situations where FreeBSD (or NetBSD) would still perform adequately. > That's what I firmly think at this time and is subject to change as I experience > the FreeBSD community. > > Like with any technology, that'll just take time to fix like any other problem > that has a competent group maintaining it. > > > yes, that *is* an offer. Who do I talk to?) Someone used to have a .sig > > that summed the difference between Linux and *BSD pretty nicely: "Linux is > > for people that hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who love Unix." > > You probably don't know this but that attitude above isn't helpful for FreeBSD > nor the Linux folks. Contrary to the derogatory point of view that FreeBSD have > of Linux folks, Linux folks are *not* terribly stupid and see Linux as a valued > and legitimate variant of Unix. I certainly see Linux in this way, as happy Linux > user exploring the merits of FreeBSD for the first time. You've misinterpreted our collective feelings towards Linux. We also see Linux as a valued and legitimate variant of UNIX, for people who are new to UNIX or who don't YET fully understand what UNIX is. Once they do (*if* they do), they will end up wanting more than what Linux has to offer, and they will find FreeBSD. The feelings of the FreeBSD community, which you have already recognized, are that FreeBSD is tangibly better than Linux in many ways, and if it is perhaps a little more difficult to master, that is not a problem because those who will never master such difficulty will always have Linux to fill their needs. Those who can master it, who will eventually come to revel in their mastery, and who need the additional stability and performance, will come to FreeBSD. As I have written before, Linux is OUR most fertile recruiting ground. The Linux community is where we go to find talented people who have already made the leaps into UNIX-think and open systems think, and who are ready, willing and able to learn. Linux is invaluable to us in the way it has and will continue to grow our userbase. That does not mean we need to turn FreeBSD into Linux. We don't feel the need to burden our somewhat limited development and support resources into hand-holding the clueless newbies and the perpetually clueless, because Linux has already addressed that quite well. Let Linux teach them what a kernel configuration is, what it does for the system, and how to use a text editor, then when they move on to FreeBSD, configuring the kernel by editing a file won't be that much of a barrier to them because they will already understand what a kernel configuration is. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 8:53:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339CB14E21 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16573; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37540155.1BF16326@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:50:45 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darryl Okahata Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script References: <199905312315.QAA18260@mina.sr.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darryl Okahata wrote: > > David Scheidt wrote: > > > On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bill Huey wrote: > > > > > That's fundamentally disturbing especially coming from other fellow > > > Unix variant folks. > > > > Inter-UNIX rivalries are one of things that has kept unix healthy for so > > long. Linux tends to pick up most of the 3L1t3 dudez, who don't know > > Inter-Unix rivalries are one of the big things that's slowed down > Unix development and allowed Windows to thrive. If the rivalries didn't > exist, Unix would be *MUCH* better than it currently is. I'm not just > talking about FreeBSD vs Linux; I'm talking about all of the other major > Unix vendors, too. Better how? More scalable? More reliable? You completely fail to understand that the Sun StarFire, the SGI Origin 2000, HP and AIX clusters exist because these companies COMPETE with each other to create the biggest, fastest, and most reliable computers around. If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill for such an application. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9: 6:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629E615084 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA95316; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Wes Peters Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing special device files In-Reply-To: <3753F33E.74DAA18C@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bzzzt! On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > > > I write a small program to read/write each FreeBSD partition via special > > device file names, e.g. /dev/wd0s2e, /dev/rwd0s2e, etc. I have two > > questions about doing this: > > > > (1) If I try to read() on these files, the buffer size must be given in > > multiples of 512 (sector size). Otherwise, I will get an EINVAL error. > > Why is this the case? Does the same thing happen to the write() system > > call? > > > > (2) I use lseek() on these device files, it returns the correct offset for > > me. But actually it does not work. I read in a recent posting saying that > > you can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work unless the file descriptor > > is associated with a regular file because file size information is not > > available at that level. Does this apply to all kinds of lseek(), include > > SEEK_SET and SEEK_CUR? Or maybe the offset must also given in a multiple > > of 512 for some reason. If I give lseek(fd, 8193, SEEK_SET), it will > > actually do lseek(fd, 8192, SEEK_SET)? > > They're block devices, they can only be read, written, and seeked in > terms of their native block size. The block size is typically 512 > bytes for disks, other types of media (like CD-ROM) may vary greatly > from this. > > If you want to read, write, or seek to arbitrary ranges, use the "raw" > devices, i.e. rwd0s2e. These are character devices that will allow > you to read, write, and seek to arbitrary byte locations on the device; > the kernel handles the buffering and blocking for you. I know this is confusing but you are 100% backwards.. the RAW device can only be accesses in units supported by the hardware.. i.e. usually 512 byte chunks.. however the Buffered device (e.g. wd0s1a) may be accessed on any boundary as it buffers the data, (at least for reads). it accesses the device in 512 byte chunks but this is hidden from you.. this is why it's a buffered device.... julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9:14:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E58C315084 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA06119; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:13:37 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199906011613.MAA06119@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com To: maret@axis.de (Alexander Maret) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E4F@erlangen01.axis.de> from "Alexander Maret" at Jun 1, 99 08:58:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 10765 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Alexander Maret had to walk into mine and say: > Hi, > > > Well maybe FreeBSD is transmitting packets much faster than Linux. :) > > You still haven't actually measured the transfer speed, so there's > > no way for us to know. > > Well, I'll do and report the results to you. Actually, there's another difference between the behavior of the FreeBSD and Linux drivers that could affect this. There may be a similar difference between the FreeBSD and LoseNT drivers too, but I'm only vaguely familiar with how LoseNT (or rather, NDIS miniport) drivers work so I can't be sure about that. Basically, the driver has one particular entry point for initiating packet transmission. In Linux, this entry point gets handed a single packet (stored in an skbuff) and a pointer to the device structure for that particular driver instance. In FreeBSD, the start routine gets handed a pointer to the ifnet structure for the interface (which is associated with the driver). The ifnet structure in turn contains the send queue which may have several packets queued for transmission in the form of mbufs (the maximum number depends on the size of ifq_maxlen, which the driver can set at initialization time). The difference is that in Linux, the driver sets up a single DMA/transmit sequence at a time, because the transmit routine only gets access to one packet at a time. In FreeBSD, the driver has access to the entire send queue, where there may be several packets waiting. The driver can then handle the send queue as it sees fit: it can pop the first packet off the queue and transmit it, then wait for it to complete before moving on to the next packet, or it can pop a whole series of packets off the send queue and set up a large DMA transfer where all of the packets will get transfered at once, rather than one at a time. (The driver may still program the NIC to signal successful transmission of each frame in the transfer just to make sure things are working right, but it may also choose just to have the NIC acknowledge the last packet in the transfer in order to reduce the number of interrupts. The xl driver requests an interrupt only for the last frame in a DMA transfer.) The FreeBSD driver also sets the transmit threshold for best performance. The transmit start threshold specifies how many bytes should be transfered to the NIC's memory before it will begin putting the data on the wire. The idea is that transfer of data from the host to the NIC can proceed simultaneously with transmission of data from the NIC to the wire: as new data arrives in the NIC, it gets dumped onto the network as soon as possible. Note however that this only works well if the host can keep up. With slower systems, you may see transmit underruns where the NIC wants to transmit but the data isn't ready yet. In this case, the driver will increase the transmit start threshold and generate a message telling what happened. Eventually, the threshold will be increased enough that the transmit underrun condition will not appear anymore. This means that it's possible for the FreeBSD driver to transmit a whole bunch of packets at once with very little time in between. If there's another host transmitting back at the same time, this also means that you're more likely to see collisions. However it also means that you get very fast transmissions, which is supposed to be a good thing. Can you throttle back the xl driver? Well, yes, if you want. There are two things you can do: - Use a different default for the transmit start threshold. In xl_init(), the driver initializes sc->xl_tx_thresh to XL_MIN_FRAMELEN, which is 60. You can change this to 120 or 512, or even 1536 if you want to disable the threshold entirely and have the NIC wait until the whole packet has been DMAed into its memory before it starts a transmission. - Make xl_start() only queue one packet at a time. This unforunately requires some code changes (not big ones, but it's more than just changing a setting somewhere). > > Grrr. I'm sorry, but I really don't think you're putting the pieces > > together correctly. Setting the NT machine to full duplex should have > > absolutely no effect on the FreeBSD host. It will completely screw up > > performance since the LoseNT host will then no longer be set to match > > the hub, but that's another problem. I strongly suspect that you're > > not making the proper observations when your problem manifests and > > just leaping to the conclusion that setting the LoseNT host to full > > duplex crashes the FreeBSD host. > > I just tell you what i experienced. Well, it's suspicious. It gives the impression that setting the LoseNT host to full duplex mode somehow angered the computer gods, prompting them to make your FreeBSD host spontaneously reboot. Also, there might be more to it. For example, if you were running the X Window system on the console at the time, then there may have been a panic message printed which you weren't able to see: if the kernel panics while the X server is running, the console does not get set back to text mode, so any panic message would be obscured. Usually the system will wait about 15 seconds before it reboots after a panic, so the only evidence you will have that the kernel has crashed is that the console will be frozen for about 15 seconds before the system resets. In order to really see what's going on, you either need to set up a serial console or enable crash dumps (the kernel message buffer will get saved as part of the crash dump, and you can either look at it with gdb or go rummaging around the vmcore with strings -a). If you aren't running X on the console, then maybe you've set the system to something besides virtual console 0: I'm pretty sure that kernel printf()s (and panic messages) will only be printed on ttyv0, so if you're on ttyv1 you may not get any warning. And if you are on ttyv0 and still it blows up without warning, then you need to investigate a bit to find the cause. Observing the LEDs on the hub and on the NICs when you switch modes would be a good idea. You might also try running tcpdump -i xl0 on the FreeBSD host and watching what happens. You could also try compiling the kernel with 'options DDB' to see if you can get the system to drop into the debugger instead of resetting. Maybe the LoseNT host is sending some sort of chernobylgram when it changes modes. Maybe the hub is getting confused and applying line voltage to the transmit and receive lines in the FreeBSD host's port. In general it's rare that the kernel will just reset without any warning; most runtime kernel errors result in a page fault or some other trap which will be signalled by a panic. > > I don't think that's true. > > Why are you ignoring problems. On the one hand you want people to use > your driver and complain if they switch to other cards and on the other > hand you comment their problems with: That's not true. Put yourself in my shoes. You have somebody who claims that setting his LoseNT machine to full duplex crashes his FreeBSD machine without really providing enough clues to determine a probable cause. There's no evidence that the problem is 100% repeatable (did you try it several times in a row and observe that it happened every time?) and no supporting analysis to show any connection between the two events. All we have is: action A was followed by event B, therefore A caused B. That's not enough: you have to show that action A always leads to event B, and you have to find enough evidence to show a plausible connection between A and B. Pressing the 'full duplex' button in the 3Com NIC configuration utility doesn't send a 'please crash now' message to the FreeBSD host (although I'm sure Micro$oft wouldn't mind if it did). There is some sequence of events that happens between action A and event B, and since I'm way over here I can't automatically know what those are. As for the collisions, the fact that you have never observed them before doesn't mean they are unusual. Again, you still don't say what kind of transfer rates you observe. If the speed is comparable with what you've observed with other machines (running at the same settings, that is), then it's hard to say there's something really wrong. > As I said in an earlier mail: If there are too many collisions > my NT server crashes. Sometimes it doesn't crash but I can't send > any data over the net either. I think it has something to do with the > TCP/IP protocol because I then can't ping the NT machine nor the FreeBSD > server. I have to reboot NT and everything works fine again. I can > easily reproduce this error. Even with another NT machine which shows > the same problem. You should try to run tcpdump on the FreeBSD host when attempting to use ping, as well as observe the activity LEDs on the hub. When the problem happens, try to run ping on the NT machine and see if you observe any packets with tcpdump on the FreeBSD machine. The problem here that you state that the machines don't communicate, but we need to know why. The NT host may be failing to transmit, or it may be failing to receive. Or the FreeBSD host may be failing to transmit or receive. We need to know which. Say you have three machines on the network: two NT hosts and the FreeBSD server. Now you duplicate the problem with one NT host where it can't ping anymore. Can the second NT host and the FreeBSD server still communicate? Can the two NT hosts still communicate? If the second NT machine and the FreeBSD server can still talk to each other, the the problem is with the first NT host. If the two NT hosts can still communicate, but neither of them can talk to the FreeBSD server then the problem is with the FreeBSD server. If you have tcpdump running on the FreeBSD server and you still see traffic coming from the NT hosts, then the problem is that the FreeBSD server is receiving but not transmitting. In this case, you should do ifconfig xl0 and see if the OACTIVE flag is set. If it is, it means the driver has used up all its DMA desciptors and the NIC hasn't acknowledged transmissions so it hasn't been able to free any of them. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9:21:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peewee.cdrom.com (simo-ppp.eccosys.com [199.100.7.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED4A151E4 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) Received: from peewee (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peewee.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09172; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) To: Jake Burkholder Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 15:01:31 PDT." <19990530220131.B6AA0C9@io.checker.org> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:21:36 -0700 Message-ID: <9168.928254096@peewee> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think its useful if it gets linux people less afraid of FreeBSD. This is one of those reocurring threads.. Everyone to contribute to it so far has either had no better ideas for "front ending" the kernel configuration process or lots of ideas but no time to implement them, resulting in the same [lack of] results either way. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9:30:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peewee.cdrom.com (simo-ppp.eccosys.com [199.100.7.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0135154EF for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@jkh-plip-peewee.cdrom.com) Received: from peewee (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peewee.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09218; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@jkh-plip-peewee.cdrom.com) To: "stan@osgroup.com" Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 May 1999 18:14:31 CDT." <01BEAAC8.445E89A0.stan@osgroup.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:30:31 -0700 Message-ID: <9215.928254631@peewee> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You don't want FreeBSD to have more users? Do you think it already has > enough users? How many users is enough? What is the goal of the FreeBSD > project? To be the test platform for new kernel ideas exclusively? Why > do you tolerate the presence of the X on the FreeBSD CD-ROMs then? I think this point was somewhat ill-made and should be taken more as Mike being grumpy than as any statement of official policy. :) > Making the script is like making more documentation. Is the current > FreeBSD documentation so plentiful that making more documentation would > harm somebody? Go ahead and do it. Like I said, this gets talked about a lot but only a few people have ever tried to actually do it. I've seen a few shell scripts in the past, but all were somewhat simplistic and also abandoned quickly, which is not what you want. If you get users to start using a new kernel configuration mechanism, it MUST be maintained on a regular basis (as new options are added) or you'll just lull them into a false sense of security and insulate them from new features and options which exist in the "classic" config files but are not yet in the configuration front-end tool. As others have also said, the real goal is to have truly generic kernels and dispense with config(8) forever. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9:50:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FD815060 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24039; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:46:22 -0400 To: Jason Thorpe From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199906011500.IAA27210@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:00 AM 6/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:09:59 +0200 > Alexander Maret wrote: > > > At first I tried my FreeBSD machine and I got about 800-900 collisions. > > Second I booted on the same machine linux and I only got 4 (!) collisions. > >It's also possible that Linux isn't counting the collisions properly. > > > I have no problem with thousands or millions of collissions, as long as > > they don't crash my computer. I just want a running system. > >Collisions don't cause your system to crash. If this is happening, >something else is at fault (though that something else may be an >unrelated problem in the Ethernet driver). If your nic driver chains packets (such that there is no time in between) you will see good throughput from the box but your overall network performance will suffer. A PCI card with continueous traffic can completely hog your lan (particularly at 10Mb/s)...which can cause a lot more collisions on your network as other devices will not have access until the hog is finished sending. For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better as you approach capacity of your wire. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 9:55:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mobil.surnet.ru (mobil.surnet.ru [195.54.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A9215060 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilia@cgilh.chel.su) Received: (from uucgilh@localhost) by mobil.surnet.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with UUCP id WAA27052; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:54:38 +0600 (UDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cgilh.chel.su (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id UAA01087; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:59:15 +0600 Received: from localhost (ilia@localhost) by jane.cgu.chel.su (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA00630; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:59:03 +0600 (ESS) (envelope-from ilia@cgilh.chel.su) X-Authentication-Warning: jane.cgu.chel.su: ilia owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:59:03 +0600 (ESS) From: Ilia Chipitsine X-Sender: ilia@jane.cgu.chel.su To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: sporkl@ix.netcom.com, fengyue@bluerose.windmoon.nu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199905310721.RAA83305@mail.theinternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 31 May 1999, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > +----[ Spike ]--------------------------------------------- > | > | a good enough job. I think this because in the end FreeBSD is going to > | lose to Linux if only from the sheer momentum of twenty million rabid > | Linux fanatics. And realistically, we aren't doing a damn thing about it. > > Technical discussions aside, I think that in reality, that it's that > fanaticism that will be Linux' undoing. There are already reports of > people switching from Linux to something else, because they got flamed/mail > bombed/etc for daring to do/try/mention something else. > > It's not easy for any commercial vendor to work in that type of environment. > > I think some of FreeBSD's long term strengths are that it is centralised, > and a willingness (from the userbase) to work with vendors to get applications > ported. The rabid zealots of the church of GNU are not likely to want to > *pay* for commercial applications on their free OS. It is not going to take > long for vendors to realise this. > > The FreeBSD community seems (to me) to be more commerically oriented, and > friendlier to commercial entities and even to 'competitors'. One success > story is all it will take to get other vendors interested -- vendors don't > really care about technically superiority, they want 'untapped markets.' sure, you are right. there's no available MapleV, Nagware F90, Pacific Sierra F90, Pacific Sierra HPF for Linux, but you can easy get them for FreeBSD. and do not forget there's no plans of releasing StarOffice, Adobe Acrobat Reader, Word Perfect for Linux. They all are available for FreeBSD though ! That's what people call 'commercially oriented' ! I've forgotten couple more applications, sorry... > > -- > Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew > The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton > ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig > PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 10: 2:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6149B14EEE for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24073; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906011703.NAA24073@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:59:16 -0400 To: Jaye Mathisen From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <199905302150.OAA12070@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:06 PM 5/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > >It is kind of interesting that now the shoe is on the other foot... > >A few months ago I purchased some sync cards from ET, and had some (and am >still having) trouble getting them to work consistently. > >When I emailed their support dept for help, I got a few curt non-helpful >replies, then a message about how if I didn't understand every nuance of >HDLC, and couldn't read the debugging output of his cards/software, then >I was (my interpratation, not his words exactly) not worth of his effort, >nor his company's products. You had the cards connected back to back, which is not a normal configuratoin. > >I have offered access to the boxes for the trivially repeatable problem I >am having, in order so that he can improve his product, but the answer so >far is "Try a new version of the software". The shotgun approach to tech >support. Because your problem has been fixed, I believe. Your constantly email and simply said "it doesnt work"...if you do it correctly it works, and I cannot debug a back-to-back config for you. > >It is no wonder that he does not invest effort in helping the 3com driver >work better, he is unwilling to work with a customer with a significant >dollar amount invested in his boards make *his* product better, why would >he be worried about improving others product, he has little interest in >improving his own. We have thousands of boards installed....making them work back to back in a non-standard configuration does not make the product *better*, particularly when working with someone who cant provide useful info on *why* it doesnt work. I wish I could stop what I was doing every time someone had a problem, but I dont have that kind of time. > >Which is too bad, because when it works, it (the ET board) works just >great. When it doesn't, don't ask ET for help. What you get is a lot of >talking down, what you don't get is real help. I told you that we fixed something recently that sounded like the problem you were having...did you try it, or is it too much trouble? I cant debug old versions of software. If you are not using the latest version then you MUST upgrade to get proper support. We cant spend hours debugging problems that have already been fixed. It took you 2 weeks to find provide any useful information. When someone calls and says "it doesnt work" there is not much I can do. Next time try calling on the phone when you are in front of the machine instead of emailing snippits of useless info. Of course now that you've publically badmouthed us Im sure your requests well get very high priority :-) Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 10:11: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.sourcee.com (falcon.sourcee.com [205.181.248.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F220314E63 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from evan@falcon.sourcee.com) Received: (from evan@localhost) by falcon.sourcee.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA04635 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:10:51 -0400 From: Evan Tsoukalas To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Partitioning a freebsd partition on the fly Message-ID: <19990601131050.A27372@falcon.sourcee.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: email message X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm not quite sure if this is the right mailing list to post my particular problem too, and I apologize if it is not. I have a Sony VAIO psg-505ts running a -CURRENT SNAP from 032799 with a 4.3gig disk entirely devoted to FreeBSD. I now have a need to run Windoze on this laptop, and I do not wish to reload all of the things that I have setup under FreeBSD. My question is, can I shrink my /usr partition down without losing what is on it? It is a 3.8 gig partition that only has 900 meg or so on it. I would like to trim about a gigabyte off of it so that I can install Windoze. Is this going to be possible, or should I start from scratch installing Winoze first? Any help would be greatly appreciated. -- Regards, Evan Tsoukalas Systems Administrator Source Electronics Corporation evan@sourcee.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 10:17:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F20E14E63 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24123; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906011717.NAA24123@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:13:39 -0400 To: Mike Smith From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199905302150.OAA12070@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:50 PM 5/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >> I have no stake in 3com cards (they are >> >> problematic in LINUX as well)...maybe the cards are flawed? Its not my >> >> problem. >> > >> >It *is* your problem. Supposing you can't get Intel cards anymore. >> >Then what're you going to do. >> >> Use something else that works. If none of them work then FreeBSD is no >> longer a viable option. > >This is the core fallacy; you should restate this as: > > "If none of them work, then FreeBSD is no longer a viable option > because it will require me to do some work to help fix them". > >I'm sorry; the FreeBSD Project is dedicated to developing operating >system code, not wiping your ass. You've received abundant offers of >assistance requiring no more than minimal effort on your part, and >turned them all down. This kind of selfish laziness is something we >can all do without. hey mike, why dont you try to pay attention. This was a CUSTOMER who was UNWILLING to donate their network to the freebsd project. Get it? I dont have 3com cards, I dont like 3com. I just reported that someone had a problem. I already work 70 hours a week pal, so dont give me this "lazy" bullshit. Im supposed to fix the 3com driver and the dec driver and the nfs code and all the other things wrong with freebsd, right? Why doesnt someone who ACTUALLY USES 3com cards donate their time? If noone is having a problem, then why worry? So if you are saying that we shouldnt report problems if we are not willing to donate our time to fix them then so be it. If you think that every time one of my customers has some problem with something in FreeBSD I'm going to spend days trying to fix it, you have been out in the outback way too long. Im not on the core team, its not my driver, and I couldnt give a rats ass if the 3com driver ever works...next time I'll just quietly tell the customer and let every other poor sole who uses 3com cards find out for themselves. What a seflish guy I am. DB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 10:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from penrose.isocor.ie (penrose.isocor.ie [194.106.155.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C3A14EB8 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.edwards@isocor.ie) Received: from isocor.ie (194.106.155.218) by penrose.isocor.ie; 1 Jun 1999 18:16:25 +0100 Message-ID: <375415A4.33FB232E@isocor.ie> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:17:24 +0100 From: Peter Edwards Organization: ISOCOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 i86pc) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis wrote: > For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better > as you approach capacity of your wire. Isn't there some ethernet requirement (implemented on the NIC) that a transmitter holds off the wire a little to give other NICs enough time to notice there's nothing being transmitted? The sequence of events would be something like: NIC1 NIC2 time | v start xmit host queues next packet xmit finishes start "back-to-back" delay sense idle wire start xmit sense access from NIC2 "back-to-back" delay ends wait for wire idle xmit finishes sense idle start xmit Or did I just fall asleep reading the spec and dream this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 10:58:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (news.IAE.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B8215181 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with IAEhv.nl id TAA21548; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:50:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bowtie.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04237; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:46:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Message-Id: <199906011746.TAA04237@bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Peter Edwards Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-reply-to: peter.edwards's message of Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:17:24 +0100. <375415A4.33FB232E@isocor.ie> Reply-To: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:46:45 +0200 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Dennis wrote: > > > For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better > > as you approach capacity of your wire. > > Isn't there some ethernet requirement (implemented on the NIC) that a > transmitter holds off the wire a little to give other NICs enough time > to notice there's nothing being transmitted? > > The sequence of events would be something like: > > NIC1 NIC2 time | > v > start xmit > host queues next packet > xmit finishes > start "back-to-back" delay > sense idle wire > start xmit > sense access from NIC2 > "back-to-back" delay ends > wait for wire idle > xmit finishes > sense idle > start xmit > > No, only when there is a collision, both sides then wait a random amount of time before trying again. Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11: 3: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id A259715024; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: dennis@etinc.com Cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> (message from Dennis on Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:46:22 -0400) Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Message-Id: <19990601180304.A259715024@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If your nic driver chains packets (such that there is no time in between) > you will see good throughput from the box but your overall network > performance will suffer. A PCI card with continueous traffic can completely > hog your lan (particularly at 10Mb/s)...which can cause a lot more > collisions on your network as other devices will not have access until the > hog is finished sending. For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better > as you approach capacity of your wire. > > Dennis the interframce gap will allow other hosts to contend for the wire. the ethernet capture effect decreases as the number of hosts on the segment increases. the interpacket gap is 9.6uS (or 96 bit times). an ethernet card listens to the wire before transmitting a card that is not able to transmit because the wire is busy will begin transmitting as soon as the wire goes quiet. the max length of an ethernet is 46 bit times. so a waiting card will alaways get first crack at the wire. capture effect is due to stations colliding in trying to access the wire. those that dont collide, are immune to the capture effect and get the wire first. http://wwwhost.ots.utexas.edu/ethernet/papers.html jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11: 6:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D8115024 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA75497 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:02:59 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:02:58 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Review: Having aio.h include sys/time.h Message-ID: <19990601190257.C73490@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, docs/11589 says that programs that include aio.h also need to include sys/time.h. I've had a chat with Terry Lambert, who wrote the aio_read.2 manual page, who says > And here is a section from the aio.h manual page (from the > Single UNIX Specification): > > Inclusion of the header may make visible symbols > defined in the headers , , > and . > > Basically, this means that the aio.h header is *defined* as > including sys/types.h (because of off_t and size_t), and is > defined as either including the other headers as well (bad) > or as forward declaring some types as opaque: > Since the Single UNIX Specification make no note of a header > other than aio.h, I'm afraid that the answer is that the aio.h > must include these headers, or directly define the respective > types itself. > > While I dislike promiscuous headers, I believe it is better to > be able to compile and run standards compliant UNIX code. So I want to apply the following very trivial patch; Index: aio.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/sys/aio.h,v retrieving revision 1.9 diff -u -r1.9 aio.h --- aio.h 1999/01/17 22:33:08 1.9 +++ aio.h 1999/06/01 17:57:36 @@ -19,6 +19,7 @@ #ifndef _SYS_AIO_H_ #define _SYS_AIO_H_ +#include #include #include Any objections? I know nothing about the aio* stuff at all, which is why I'm checking first. N -- The trial continues tomorrow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11: 7: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33AB157AC for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id SAA74268; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:53:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:53:24 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Chuck Robey Cc: "Chris D. Faulhaber" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script Message-ID: <19990601185323.B73490@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:21:57PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:21:57PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > You guys should be aware that work is going on to change, in a rather > major way, not just the config file, not just the configuration method, > but the entire way that devices are detected and drivers added. Is this documented anywhere? Not the fact that things are going to change, but what the user visible component of that change is? I'd hate for the Handbook et al to suddenly be seriously out of date when a new config mechanism is upon us. Cheers, N -- The trial continues tomorrow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11: 9:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C81615763 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id SAA73702; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:48:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:48:54 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Brian Feldman Cc: Chris Costello , Nik Clayton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: so_cred changes Message-ID: <19990601184854.A73490@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990531040711.F1297@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Feldman on Mon, May 31, 1999 at 07:27:57AM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 31, 1999 at 07:27:57AM -0400, Brian Feldman wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > On Sun, May 30, 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > > > Cheers, committed. > > > > Already? As the CVS tree (at least the one on > > anoncvs.freebsd.org) has it, the so_cred changes haven't been > > committed yet. > > *Laugh* I think that the doc was the only thing that was committed. Hey! People are always complaining that the docs lag the implementation. OK, so possibly I should have read the thread first. But I'd just committed 15 or 16 doc PRs -- as soon as I saw a patch the reflex action kicked in. . . N -- The trial continues tomorrow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11:28:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4135D14C2F; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA24383; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906011828.OAA24383@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 13:24:38 -0400 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Dennis Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990601180304.A259715024@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:03 AM 6/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> >> If your nic driver chains packets (such that there is no time in between) >> you will see good throughput from the box but your overall network >> performance will suffer. A PCI card with continueous traffic can completely >> hog your lan (particularly at 10Mb/s)...which can cause a lot more >> collisions on your network as other devices will not have access until the >> hog is finished sending. For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better >> as you approach capacity of your wire. >> >> Dennis > > > the interframce gap will allow other hosts to contend for the >wire. the ethernet capture effect decreases as the number of hosts on >the segment increases. the interpacket gap is 9.6uS (or 96 bit >times). an ethernet card listens to the wire before >transmitting a card that is not able to transmit because the wire is >busy will begin transmitting as soon as the wire goes quiet. the max >length of an ethernet is 46 bit times. so a waiting card will alaways >get first crack at the wire. capture effect is due to stations >colliding in trying to access the wire. those that dont collide, are >immune to the capture effect and get the wire first. and if you have 2 cards waiting? or 3? or 10? Im not sure why, but with certain PCI drivers there are a lot more collisions. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11:49:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740481574F for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA27023; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA26755; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:49:43 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA18487; Tue, 1 Jun 99 11:49:39 PDT Message-Id: <37542B43.FD1CFFF3@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:49:39 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing special device files References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > Bzzzt! > > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > > > > > I write a small program to read/write each FreeBSD partition via special > > > device file names, e.g. /dev/wd0s2e, /dev/rwd0s2e, etc. I have two > > > questions about doing this: > > > > > > (1) If I try to read() on these files, the buffer size must be given in > > > multiples of 512 (sector size). Otherwise, I will get an EINVAL error. > > > Why is this the case? Does the same thing happen to the write() system > > > call? > > > > > > (2) I use lseek() on these device files, it returns the correct offset for > > > me. But actually it does not work. I read in a recent posting saying that > > > you can't expect lseek(fd, 0, SEEK_END) to work unless the file descriptor > > > is associated with a regular file because file size information is not > > > available at that level. Does this apply to all kinds of lseek(), include > > > SEEK_SET and SEEK_CUR? Or maybe the offset must also given in a multiple > > > of 512 for some reason. If I give lseek(fd, 8193, SEEK_SET), it will > > > actually do lseek(fd, 8192, SEEK_SET)? > > > > They're block devices, they can only be read, written, and seeked in > > terms of their native block size. The block size is typically 512 > > bytes for disks, other types of media (like CD-ROM) may vary greatly > > from this. > > > > If you want to read, write, or seek to arbitrary ranges, use the "raw" > > devices, i.e. rwd0s2e. These are character devices that will allow > > you to read, write, and seek to arbitrary byte locations on the device; > > the kernel handles the buffering and blocking for you. > > I know this is confusing but you are 100% backwards.. > > the RAW device can only be accesses in units supported by the hardware.. > i.e. usually 512 byte chunks.. > however the Buffered device (e.g. wd0s1a) may be accessed on any boundary > as it buffers the data, (at least for reads). > it accesses the device in 512 byte chunks but this is hidden from you.. > this is why it's a buffered device.... ??? dd verifies the behavior you report: root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=1 dd: /dev/rwd0s2b: Invalid argument ... root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=512 ^C18805+0 records in ... wes@homer$ ls -l /dev/*wd0s2a crw-r----- 1 root operator 3, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/rwd0s2a brw-r----- 1 root operator 0, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/wd0s2a The rwd device is clearly a character-special device, the wd device a block special. Character devices can always be read byte-at-a-time, by definition. When did the semantics of this change? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 11:59:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0467B14D5B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:59:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21935; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:47:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:47:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Wes Peters Cc: Julian Elischer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing special device files In-Reply-To: <37542B43.FD1CFFF3@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > ??? > > dd verifies the behavior you report: > > root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=1 > dd: /dev/rwd0s2b: Invalid argument > ... > root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=512 > ^C18805+0 records in > ... > > wes@homer$ ls -l /dev/*wd0s2a > crw-r----- 1 root operator 3, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/rwd0s2a > brw-r----- 1 root operator 0, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/wd0s2a > > The rwd device is clearly a character-special device, the wd device a > block special. Character devices can always be read byte-at-a-time, > by definition. When did the semantics of this change? > I have verified the requirement that character device must be read in multiples of 512 from the source code point of view (the disk involved in an IDE drive): When we call read(int d, void *buf, size_t nbytes) system call, the argument nbytes is passed on to the iov_len field of an iov structure (see file sys_generic.c). Later, the routine vn_read() in file vfs_vnops.c is called via the structure fileops, the uio structure is passed along. vn_read() will call spec_read() via VOP_READ() because we are talking about raw device file name. spec_read() will call wdread() via the cdevsw table. wdread() will call physio() where b_bcount of a buffer is set to be iov_len. The routine wdstrategy() invoked by physio() will check if bp->b_bcount % DEV_BSIZE != 0. If it detects an request size that is not a multiple of 512, it will set b_error = EINVAL. This error will be picked up by physio() and returned. Thanks for your help. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 12: 9: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from merganser.its.uu.se (merganser.its.uu.se [130.238.6.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E43A14D5B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from d96cmu@csd.uu.se) Received: from uria.its.uu.se ([130.238.7.14]:2536 "EHLO localhost.localdomain" ident: "IDENT-NOT-QUERIED") by merganser.its.uu.se with ESMTP id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:08:26 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 46F9F2921C; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:09:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Christian Murray To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: m3socks and cvsup Message-Id: <19990601190941.46F9F2921C@localhost.localdomain> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:09:41 +0200 (CEST) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have some problems with m3socks and cvsup. The configuration files and output follows... m3socks.conf: findserver No sockd @=socks.student.uu.se 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 server socks.student.uu.se output: m3socks cvsup -g -L 3 cvs-stable Parsing supfile "cvs-stable" Looking up address of cvsup.se.freebsd.org Connecting to cvsup.se.freebsd.org can't resolve open-nameserver Unable to connect to a server: Connection refused Cannot connect to cvsup.se.freebsd.org: Connection refused ----------------- m3socks.conf: findserver No nameserver 172.17.1.2 sockd @=socks.student.uu.se 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 server socks.student.uu.se output: m3socks cvsup -g -L 3 cvs-stable Parsing supfile "cvs-stable" Looking up address of cvsup.se.freebsd.org Connecting to cvsup.se.freebsd.org Unable to connect to a server: Undefined error: 0 Cannot connect to cvsup.se.freebsd.org: TCP.Unexpected: 0 /Best regards Christian Murray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 12:11:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E022151CF for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from justin@rhapture.apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA60522 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:11:33 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:09:08 -0700 Received: from rhapture.apple.com (rhapture.apple.com [17.202.40.59]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14620; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:09:07 -0700 Received: by rhapture.apple.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00780; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906011909.MAA00780@rhapture.apple.com> To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: Accessing special device files Cc: Julian Elischer , Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:08:58 -0700 From: "Justin C. Walker" Reply-To: justin@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.105.dev) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Wes Peters > Date: 1999-06-01 11:50:23 -0700 > To: Julian Elischer > Subject: Re: Accessing special device files > Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Accept-Language: en > Delivered-to: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Organization: Softweyr LLC > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > Bzzzt! > > > > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > > > > > > > I write a small program to read/write each FreeBSD partition via special > > > > device file names, e.g. /dev/wd0s2e, /dev/rwd0s2e, etc. I have two > > > > questions about doing this: >.... > > > > I know this is confusing but you are 100% backwards.. > > ..... > > ??? > > dd verifies the behavior you report: > .... > The rwd device is clearly a character-special device, the wd device a > block special. Character devices can always be read byte-at-a-time, > by definition. When did the semantics of this change? Don't let the name fool you. The term 'character device' doesn't mean "byte-at-a-time". It's just a name in opposition to "block device", which is buffered. The real distinction is buffered (block) v. un-buffered (character), and even that's a bit blurry. Raw (character) disk devices have always had this behavior. Back in The Good Old Days, physio() actually worked direct to user buffers, so the rule was "block size and granularity", was dictated by a combo of what physio() and the device driver were willing to do. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Manager, CoreOS Networking | Men are from Earth. Apple Computer, Inc. | Women are from Earth. 2 Infinite Loop | Deal with it. Cupertino, CA 95014 | *-------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 12:29:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3871580A for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:29:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17022; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Wes Peters Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing special device files In-Reply-To: <37542B43.FD1CFFF3@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > dd verifies the behavior you report: > > root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=1 > dd: /dev/rwd0s2b: Invalid argument > ... > root@homer# dd if=/dev/rwd0s2b of=/dev/null bs=512 > ^C18805+0 records in > ... > > wes@homer$ ls -l /dev/*wd0s2a > crw-r----- 1 root operator 3, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/rwd0s2a > brw-r----- 1 root operator 0, 0x00030000 Apr 1 11:10 /dev/wd0s2a > > The rwd device is clearly a character-special device, the wd device a > block special. Character devices can always be read byte-at-a-time, > by definition. When did the semantics of this change? It's always been this way think of the devices as "RAW and buffered", rather than "character and block" RAW devices are limted by the hardware limtiations. Buffered devices use buffering to hide those limitations. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 13:36:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F939150AD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20996; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:36:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Dennis Cc: Jason Thorpe , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Dennis wrote: > If your nic driver chains packets (such that there is no time in > between) you will see good throughput from the box but your overall > network performance will suffer. A PCI card with continueous traffic > can completely hog your lan (particularly at 10Mb/s)...which can cause > a lot more collisions on your network as other devices will not have > access until the hog is finished sending. For "Fairness" gaps in > between frames are better as you approach capacity of your wire. The ethernet spec defines the acceptable inter-frame gap. Some cards have been known to use the minimum or less in order to 'go faster'. I believe that this is tunable on some cards. (LANCE comes to mind.) If the card isn't using the correct IFG and doesn't provide a knob to fix it, then there isn't much we can do when the card captures the wire. Enabeling interrupt per packet isn't the answer either. If you're running an unswitched LAN and use rogue cards you aren't in a position to fuss when they do bad things. If you cared about speed you'd use a switch in full duplex mode. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 14: 4:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E7C150AD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA29435; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA02531; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:03:51 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA24829; Tue, 1 Jun 99 14:03:49 PDT Message-Id: <37544AB4.C65E5DB8@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:03:48 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Dennis Cc: Jason Thorpe , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199906011650.MAA24039@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis wrote: > > At 08:00 AM 6/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:09:59 +0200 > > Alexander Maret wrote: > > > > > At first I tried my FreeBSD machine and I got about 800-900 collisions. > > > Second I booted on the same machine linux and I only got 4 (!) collisions. > > > >It's also possible that Linux isn't counting the collisions properly. > > > > > I have no problem with thousands or millions of collissions, as long as > > > they don't crash my computer. I just want a running system. > > > >Collisions don't cause your system to crash. If this is happening, > >something else is at fault (though that something else may be an > >unrelated problem in the Ethernet driver). > > If your nic driver chains packets (such that there is no time in between) > you will see good throughput from the box but your overall network > performance will suffer. Overall network performance will be much greater until the collision rate raises high enough to lower it. The only way to determine this is to try it, unless you have some pretty sophisticated network modelling tools. > A PCI card with continueous traffic can completely > hog your lan (particularly at 10Mb/s)... Even at 100Mb/s with good cards and moderatly fast computers. "Hogging your LAN" is spelled the same as "getting 100% throughput" around here, and is considered a GOOD thing. I fail to see how obtaining 200Mb/s (full-duplex) throughput on a $50 lan adapter is a bad thing. > which can cause a lot more > collisions on your network as other devices will not have access until the > hog is finished sending. For "Fairness" gaps in between frames are better > as you approach capacity of your wire. Or just do yourself a favor and buy a good switch, which avoids the collision problems neatly. Ethernet doesn't have to be a shared media system. I can help if you want suggestions. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 15:32:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BF315905 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:32:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09482; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:31:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Nik Clayton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <19990601185323.B73490@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 11:21:57PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > You guys should be aware that work is going on to change, in a rather > > major way, not just the config file, not just the configuration method, > > but the entire way that devices are detected and drivers added. > > Is this documented anywhere? Not the fact that things are going to change, > but what the user visible component of that change is? I'd hate for the > Handbook et al to suddenly be seriously out of date when a new config > mechanism is upon us. I don't think so, but I wouldn't press it right now. I'm answering this privately, because there is some controversy, and some really hurt feelings, over some of it. You see, some folks in Japan went off on their own and developed a "newconfig", which has a lot fo things in common with the work that Peter's gone and done, but also has some basic differences. They worked pretty much totally in silence. so when core told Peter to go ahead, the Japanese group *finally* opened their mouth, and there have been a lot of very hurt feelings, because of the large amount of work that was expended, and now is going to be lost. What was at the bottom of it was the idea of _communications_ itself, which Peter is/was doing, and the Japanese were not at all. They were just off on their own, assuming that they had a clear field, and that anything they developed would be accepted. There was no debate over features at all, which very correctly scared core. The thing that's finally been accepted is a pretty complete rewrite of the bus code, so things like devices that suddenly show up, like for plug in cards in portable machines, can announce themselves and get loaded dynamically. As much as possible, the entire idea of needing a config file is going to go away. Some of this is because of the success of the kld kernel loadable modules. There is more work on loadable modules, for dependency checking/loading, and better links between module file names, and module code names. This is a very fluid thing, and development sometimes takes a step backwards. Things are changing very quickly, which means that right now is an incredibly bad time to decide to make automated config tools, because the problem that automated config tools are intended to solve is going to be completely elminated, not just eased. Like I said, what's really needed now is a weekly summary of development of -current and -committers. In odoing it, tho, we *don't* want to add some huge extra mail load on Peter, Doug, Daniel, Mike, and others working towards all this. Many people who hang around hackers and are completely clueless, want to force folks to do it their way, because they won't spend the time to follow the lists and find out that *their* way is now obsolete. It gets complicated, doesn't it? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 15:57:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF48714C82 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:57:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25604; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906012257.SAA25604@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:53:17 -0400 To: Alexander Maret , "'Nick Hibma'" From: Dennis Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" In-Reply-To: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E5B@erlangen01.axis.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> The discussion started with a remark about the fact that 3Com >> cards have >> problems under load, without a backing of that statement. That is the >> thing that made people trip over. It is a statement that is not the >> least helpful for anyone on the hackers mailing list and will not >> trigger help from anyone, apart from responses from people being >> frustrated about not being able to help (sounds silly but it is >> true, their puppy is being attacked without them being able to >> respond). If it "had no backing" then how could it be a "fact"? replacing the cards with intels and having the problem go away is backing. It may not be *useful*, but it is backing. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 16: 7: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 157F314A0B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 7934 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 23:06:56 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 23:06:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-3.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA40823; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:06:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-3.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:06:44 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Reply-To: David Scheidt To: Wes Peters Cc: Darryl Okahata , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script: In-Reply-To: <37540155.1BF16326@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and > more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," > I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX > was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill > for such an application. I should point out that UNIX's suitably as a document processing enviornment is one of the reasons that UNIX received support from BTL management. The fact that it was stable, ran on cheap hardware, and a cool programing enviornment were bonuses. My bookshelves at work are kept from floating away by a bunch of elderly UNIX documentation{1}, which spend a lot of space describing the tools that let you write papers and books with the system. Of course, much of what made UNIX suitable for this sort work also made it adaptable for all the other things that UNIX boxes do to earn their keep. Things like the pipe, which make it possible to quickly put together useful programs, because you have to do so little besides what you really need to do. Raise your hand if you have a two line pipeline that replaced an expensive commercial application. I strongly disagree that UNIX is overkill for any application. Why shouldn't the user be given a stable, flexible platform to do their work on? Especially if it is one that makes efficient use of the hardware the user has, so they needn't buy new hardware every six months? One of the machines I run -CURRENT on is a 4 year-old Pentium. Other than build times being longer than I would like, I don't have noticable performance issues. The same machine is essentially unable to run NT, and do work at the same time. David Scheidt {1} Anyone need a copy of the UNIX system V Release 2 User and Programmer Reference Manuals? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 16: 7: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC99E14A0B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA85306; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:07:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906012307.QAA85306@apollo.backplane.com> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pipe device driver changes up for review Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My changes to kern/sys_pipe.c are now available for review. The read changes are already in the queue for Alan to commit. The write changes are undergoing testing. http://www.backplane.com/FreeBSD4/ It would probably be easiest just to review the post-patched file, the diffs are kinda messy. pipe_read(), pipe_write(), and pipe_direct_write() were modified. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 16: 8:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8180314A0B for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25643; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906012309.TAA25643@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:05:00 -0400 To: Nick Hibma From: Dennis Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <91DA20EC3C3DD211833400A0245A4EA9BA0E57@erlangen01.axis.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >The discussion started with a remark about the fact that 3Com cards have >problems under load, without a backing of that statement. That is the >thing that made people trip over. It is a statement that is not the >least helpful for anyone on the hackers mailing list and will not >trigger help from anyone, apart from responses from people being >frustrated about not being able to help (sounds silly but it is >true, their puppy is being attacked without them being able to >respond). > > > > You're wrong! I tried to participate but everybody just told me that I'm an > > idiot. Well perhaps they're right but if nobody wants to hear my bug report > > then I'll use another card. A card which driver has been better tested and > > where gifted programmers did the bug reports. > >You think along the lines of least resistance for solving your problems, >while developers think along the lines of highest resistance to get bugs >sorted out. Added to that was quite a bit of (justifiable) frustration >from Bill P. side. > >And I don't think people call you an idiot and if they did, they are >wrong. They are however entitled to express their opinion in a for them >suitable way and should be read with their background and a context, you >might not be fully aware of, in mind. Do not mistake this for people >being angry at you. If you are able to read emotions from an e-mail >accurately, you have a very special gift. A good developer knows that not everyone that uses his product is technically capable to help out when there is a problem. Sometimes you cant even get people to explain the basic symptoms. A developers job is to develop a test bed to recreate problems based on what users tell him. You can't expect users to spend their time debugging your code. If you get one your lucky...you cant *expect* people to work with you...people have things to do. Why should they struggle with one $58. card when for $49. they can get a different one that works? Thats common sense. Until you find someone with a truckload of 3com cards that doesnt want to have to toss them all you have to find the problems yourself. Most of my customers are internet service providers...if their net is down for 5 minutes the phones start ringing off the wall. They need something that works NOW. Bill, when you get out the last bug you can stand on your desk and beat your chest and everyone will applaud you. Until then, you have a headache. Dont be pissed at me...I have more headaches thnn I have heads without worrying about yours too. I find that a nice cold Bass Ale is soothing when Im working on a killer bug. Have a beer, watch the Knicks beat up on the Pacers. Very relaxing. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 16:42:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B41615885 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40402>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:26:40 +1000 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:42:27 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: a two-level port system? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: darrylo@sr.hp.com Message-Id: <99Jun2.092640est.40402@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darryl Okahata wrote: >Peter Jeremy wrote: >> How about storing each port as a single file in ar(5) format, which is >> unpacked into the directory structure when make'd? ar(5) is a text >> format, which means it can easily be managed by CVS, which includes >> a tool for manipulating its contents - ar(1). > > This isn't all that different from the existing *.tar.gz port >files. If you use those, you get all the advantages of your approach, >plus fewer disadvantages: I think you've misunderstood me. There are three distinct sets of files associated with a port: 1) The port-and-FreeBSD-specific config files which are stored under /usr/ports//. These files comprise a Makefile, various package files in pkg and various optional patches and scripts. 2) The original distribution file. This may be located anywhere on the internet (the location and name is in the port Makefile) and will be stored in /usr/ports/distfiles after download. These can be in any format, but .tar.gz is probably the most common. 3) Pre-built ports available as packaged from ftp.freebsd.org. I think these are all .tar.gz, but some might be bzip2 format. The discussions have all centered on 1) above. This is the area where there is the greatest wastage of resources (inodes and unused partial blocks). > - No need to CVS commit ar files. (BTW, CVS can also handle binary > files, so ASCII vs. binary is a non-issue.) The problem is that the diffs between 2 uuencoded .tar.gz files (which is how CVS would treat them) tend to contain the entire contents of both files. >> Disadvantages: - CVS files will bloat. - relatively difficult to examine the innards of the files for each port. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 17: 6:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B87714CC7 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 20733 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 00:06:29 -0000 Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@207.229.143.42) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 00:06:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (dscheidt@localhost) by shell-3.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA41027; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:06:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell-3.enteract.com: dscheidt owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:06:25 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Evan Tsoukalas Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Partitioning a freebsd partition on the fly In-Reply-To: <19990601131050.A27372@falcon.sourcee.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Evan Tsoukalas wrote: > My question is, can I shrink my /usr partition down without losing what is on > it? It is a 3.8 gig partition that only has 900 meg or so on it. I would like to trim about a gigabyte off of it so that I can install Windoze. Is this going > to be possible, or should I start from scratch installing Winoze first? Resizing FFS filesystems is not possible. In addition, I find that windoze deals with dual-boot machines much better if windows is installed first. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 18: 8:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C9714DBD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.69.165]) by mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990602010835.QGYE13307.mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com> for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:35 -0700 Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27250 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:35 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pv_table/pv_entry Message-ID: <19990601180835.A27151@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Going through the 4.4 BSD book, I learnt that the purpose of the pv_table is to be able to locate all the mappings to a given physical page. However, comparing this to the Linux approach, which chains vm_area_struct (analogous to vm_map_entry in FreeBSD) together to locate the shared mappings, it appears to me that the Linux approach is more space efficient. So why not eliminate pv_table and chain vm_map_entries together to represent the sharing information ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 18:19:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Legato.COM (test8.legato.com [137.69.200.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E837314DBD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bservies@Legato.COM) Received: from mail.Legato.COM (mail-net2.legato.com [137.69.2.140]) by Legato.COM (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA18575 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 137.69.5.120 (aviary [137.69.5.120]) by mail.Legato.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23614 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906020117.SAA23614@mail.Legato.COM> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:19:50 -0700 From: "Byron C. Servies" Subject: Help with panic 12 using 3.1 on compaq prosignia 300 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.3 (Bluto) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there! Apologies if I have selected the wrong list to post this question. Advice is appreciate, and I've tried to do my homework first. I am consistenly receiving a panic 12 (page not present) after installing FreeBSD 3.1 from the Walnut Creek CD's on an old Compaq Prosignia 300 I had laying around. Quick configuration (complete dmesg output below); onboard NCR SCSI controller onboard AMD ethernet (using lnc driver) ATI Mach64 video card SCSI CD-ROM, 3 SCSI disks (1 int., 2 ext.) 158MB RAM, 300MB Swap The system installed OK, and runs fine until I perform an operation that involves a lot of disk access, at which time I receive a panic 12 (exact text below). For example, untar-ing an archive or performing a cvs checkout aways cause this problem (not immediately, but consistently). I can rebuild the kernel, though, so I added debugging symbols, turned on dumps and then took a look at the result using kgdb. It is lengthy, but I have added a script of the kgdb output to this message, as well as the dmesg output from boot time. This particular dump was from a cvs -z6 co command. The symptom is that the crfree() function is receiving a bad pointer, but the actual problem is likely up the call chain. Unfortunatley, I'm not very familiar with dealing in kernel code and was hoping someone out there might be able to lend a hand. One guess: why is getblk() being called with blkno=0? Just looks suspicious to me. Byron p.s. I have read in the 3.2 FAQ that it does not support the NCR and AMD drivers yet, so trying that version is out of the question for now. -- kgdb session script --- Script started on Tue Jun 1 17:23:46 1999 mink# gdb -k GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc. (kgdb) symbol-file kernel Reading symbols from kernel...done. (kgdb) exec-file /var/crash/kernel.0 (kgdb) core-file /var/crash/vmcore.0 IdlePTD 2990080 initial pcb at 26ee84 panicstr: page fault panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x69a2c6dc fault code = supervisor write, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf014c196 stack pointer = 0x10:0xf2eecce0 frame pointer = 0x10:0xf2eecce0 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 253 (cvs) interrupt mask = bio trap number = 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 giving up dumping to dev 20401, offset 581632 dump 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 285 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xf014d3b4 in at_shutdown ( function=0xf024aecb <__set_sysinit_set_sym_memdev_sys_init+1115>, arg=0xf2eb1f40, queue=-219457216) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xf020e005 in trap_fatal (frame=0xf2eecca4, eva=1772275420) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:942 #3 0xf020dce3 in trap_pfault (frame=0xf2eecca4, usermode=0, eva=1772275420) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:835 #4 0xf020d95a in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 1, tf_esi = -248389704, tf_ebp = -219231008, tf_isp = -219231028, tf_ebx = 8192, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = -1073217472, tf_eax = 1772275420, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = -267075178, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66050, tf_esp = -219230960, tf_ss = -266951185}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:437 #5 0xf014c196 in crfree (cr=0x69a2c6dc) at ../../kern/kern_prot.c:802 #6 0xf016a5ef in getnewbuf (vp=0xf2f422c0, blkno=0, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0, size=1024, maxsize=8192) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1116 #7 0xf016adfe in getblk (vp=0xf2f422c0, blkno=0, size=1024, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1510 #8 0xf01d971a in ffs_balloc (ap=0xf2eecea8) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_balloc.c:170 #9 0xf01dd824 in ffs_write (ap=0xf2eecefc) at vnode_if.h:1015 #10 0xf01766e7 in vn_write (fp=0xf0768340, uio=0xf2eecf40, cred=0xf075f880) at vnode_if.h:331 #11 0xf0157f1e in write (p=0xf2eb1f40, uap=0xf2eecf94) at ../../kern/sys_generic.c:270 #12 0xf020e247 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 134884646, tf_esi = 135032281, tf_ebp = -272639168, tf_isp = -219230236, tf_ebx = 5, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 4, tf_trapno = 7, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 672165828, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -272655984, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #13 0xf0201e4c in Xint0x80_syscall () #14 0x805051b in ?? () #15 0x80515b8 in ?? () #16 0x8052cbc in ?? () #17 0x8052d6c in ?? () #18 0x804e109 in ?? () #19 0x80684b6 in ?? () #20 0x804a105 in ?? () (kgdb) frame 5 #5 0xf014c196 in crfree (cr=0x69a2c6dc) at ../../kern/kern_prot.c:802 802 { (kgdb) p cr $1 = (struct ucred *) 0x0 (kgdb) frame 6 #6 0xf016a5ef in getnewbuf (vp=0xf2f422c0, blkno=0, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0, size=1024, maxsize=8192) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1116 1116 crfree(bp->b_rcred); (kgdb) p bp->b_rcred $2 = (struct ucred *) 0x2e14e321 (kgdb) p *bp->b_rcred Cannot access memory at address 0x2e14e321. (kgdb) quit mink# exit Script done on Tue Jun 1 17:25:15 1999 --- dmesg output from boot after crash --- Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #3: Tue Jun 1 16:40:39 PDT 1999 root@mink.legato.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/COMPAQ Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 90187130 Hz CPU: Pentium/P54C (90.19-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 13762560 (13440K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf02d0000. eisa0: Probing for devices on the EISA bus Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: lnc1: rev 0x02 int b irq 3 on pci0.11.0 lnc1: PCnet-32 VL-Bus address 00:80:5f:fc:22:f9 ncr0: rev 0x02 int a irq 10 on pci0.12.0 vga0: rev 0x03 on pci0.14.0 chip0: rev 0x03 on pci0.15.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa psm0 irq 12 on isa psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1 not found at 0x2f8 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 wt0 not found at 0x300 mcd0 not found at 0x300 matcdc0 not found at 0x230 scd0 not found at 0x230 ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: Generic chipset (NIBBLE-only) in COMPATIBLE mode nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 ep0 not found at 0x300 lnc0 not found at 0x280 adv0 not found at 0x330 bt0 not found at 0x134 aha0 not found at 0x134 vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug Waiting 15 seconds for SCSI devices to settle changing root device to da0s1a da0 at ncr0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 1001MB (2051000 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 1001C) da2 at ncr0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0 da2: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da2: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8), Tagged Queueing Enabled da2: 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 261C) da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da1: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8), Tagged Queueing Enabled da1: 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 261C) cd0 at ncr0 bus 0 target 5 lun 0 cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-2 device cd0: 3.300MB/s transfers cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present WARNING: / was not properly dismounted To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 18:39:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0696C14DBD for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id SAA02317; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA20061; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:32:00 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA07055; Tue, 1 Jun 99 18:31:58 PDT Message-Id: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:31:57 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: Darryl Okahata , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and > > more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," > > I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX > > was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill > > for such an application. > > I should point out that UNIX's suitably as a document processing > enviornment is one of the reasons that UNIX received support from > BTL management. The fact that it was stable, ran on cheap hardware, > and a cool programing enviornment were bonuses. According to PJ, you've got it exactly backwards. The people who created it did so because they wanted to fix all the things that went wrong with the Multics project. Once they'd essentially done this, they wanted to continue to work on their new system, and looked for a way to "sell" it to Lab management. Joe Ossana was looking into document processing tools and talked to some of the UNIX people, and history was made. The ongoing text processing work became one of several projects that were developed at Bell Labs on UNIX, but it was not the reason UNIX was created. And, as far as *word processors* go, troff, nroff, and ed pretty much suck. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree they are useful tools, as borne out by the number of books that have been typeset over the years using troff. But a word processor they DO NOT make. > I strongly disagree that UNIX is overkill for any application. > Why shouldn't the user be given a stable, flexible platform to do > their work on? Especially if it is one that makes efficient use > of the hardware the user has, so they needn't buy new hardware > every six months? They should, but you certainly don't need UNIX to do this. See, for instance, a PalmPilot, or even a WinCE H/Pro. You sure as hell don't need UNIX to run your car stereo or your sparkplugs. There is a time and a place for everything. I think we agree that the time and place for Windows is/was "in the garbage can, in mid-August 1995. ;^) It is (of course) true that MOST of the embedded operating systems available these days are rather UNIX-like, either in their internal structure or at least in their API model. This is a sure sign that the original UNIX model was a very good model for providing services to programmers. But UNIX systems, even stripped down ones, still make a lot of assumptions about what a computer is that are terribly unnecessary to a large range of applications. > One of the machines I run -CURRENT on is a 4 > year-old Pentium. Other than build times being longer than I would > like, I don't have noticable performance issues. The same machine > is essentially unable to run NT, and do work at the same time. But as a word processor, is it really any better than MacWrite on an original Mac 128K? Or, to stack the deck a little more, a Mac Plus? *I* don't think so. That was a system well suited to word processing, except the tiny screen. Nothing since then has advanced the state of the art in word processing, only in being able to do other things with your word processor. > {1} Anyone need a copy of the UNIX system V Release 2 User and Programmer > Reference Manuals? No thanks, I have the full, 5-volume set from CBS College Publications. I still use it when I need to look up troff or nroff information. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 20: 6:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2049A14DE0 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA86247; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906020306.UAA86247@apollo.backplane.com> To: Arun Sharma Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pv_table/pv_entry References: <19990601180835.A27151@home.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Going through the 4.4 BSD book, I learnt that the purpose of the pv_table :is to be able to locate all the mappings to a given physical page. : :However, comparing this to the Linux approach, which chains vm_area_struct :(analogous to vm_map_entry in FreeBSD) together to locate the shared :mappings, it appears to me that the Linux approach is more space efficient. : :So why not eliminate pv_table and chain vm_map_entries together to represent :the sharing information ? : : -Arun The primary difference between the FreeBSD method and the Linux method is that the linux method takes a heavy toll in cpu by requiring a test for the page in every VM map that *might* contain that page. Since most pages in the vast majority of objects are not mapped, the FreeBSD way of doing things is typically O(1) while the linux way is O(N). This may not seem expensive, but consider what happens when you have to manipulate a *range* of pages within an object. The FreeBSD way becomes O(N) and the linux way becomes O(N^2). ( Now I'm simplifying... the FreeBSD way isn't *precisely* O(N), but neither is it anywhere near O(N^2) ). Another big difference between Linux and FreeBSD is with how page tables are maintained. Under Linux, page-tables are SWAP-BACKED. This is because Linux maintains considerable state in its page tables which cannot be recreated from other sources. Under FreeBSD, page-tables are THROW-AWAY, which means that FreeBSD can throw away elements in page tables and even whole page tables at very low cost. The FreeBSD way makes it fairly trivial for the VM system to manage pages, especially when figuring out the type of activity being performed on pages. This gives FreeBSD a significant advantage in determining which pages are good candidates to swap out or throw away. The equivalent operation under Linux is a very expensive scan of all page tables in all processes. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 20:41:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6D7151A9 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-144-15.s15.as4.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.144.15]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26703; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905280313.MAA09521@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Subject: Extra text modes via vidcontrol... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 3. The video card doesn't support required graphics modes. > Run 'vidcontrol -i mode' and see if the 320x200 256 color mode > is supported. The vga driver in FreeBSD may not be able to support > all video modes, if the video card's BIOS is not as compatible as > it should be. I have a somewhat related question for you: I cannot set many extended text modes (80x60, 80x50, 132x50, etc.) even though they are listed in the output from `vidcontrol -i mode`. My card is a Matrox Millenium G200 AGP if that is any help. Any suggestions for getting all those modes to work? Also, do you know of any chipsets that just don't 'work' with the VESA support for large splash screens? We have a bunch of ATI Rage3D cards at my school that won't load any splash screen above 320x200 even though they support VESA 2.0 and contain lots of video modes in their tables. > Kazu --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 22:20:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B0D14D50 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:RmCCqvc68SrEL+JYJR0gd3B8u169qC7o@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id OAA30308; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:20:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id OAA17278; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:24:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906020524.OAA17278@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: Extra text modes via vidcontrol... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:41:50 -0400." References: Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:24:17 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> 3. The video card doesn't support required graphics modes. >> Run 'vidcontrol -i mode' and see if the 320x200 256 color mode >> is supported. The vga driver in FreeBSD may not be able to support >> all video modes, if the video card's BIOS is not as compatible as >> it should be. > >I have a somewhat related question for you: I cannot set many extended text >modes (80x60, 80x50, 132x50, etc.) even though they are listed in the output >from `vidcontrol -i mode`. My card is a Matrox Millenium G200 AGP if that is >any help. Any suggestions for getting all those modes to work? These text modes with more than 25 lines require 8x8 font which is not loaded to the kernel by default. You can load one of 8x8 font files in /usr/share/syscons/fonts via `vidcontrol -f _font_file_name_'. You can automatically load font at boot time by editting /etc/rc.conf.local (3.1-RELEASE or later) or /rc/rc.conf (3.0-RELEASE or earlier includeing 2.2.X). >Also, do you know of any chipsets that just don't 'work' with the VESA support >for large splash screens? We have a bunch of ATI Rage3D cards at my school >that won't load any splash screen above 320x200 even though they support VESA >2.0 and contain lots of video modes in their tables. I don't have such list. It is "chipset", but "BIOS" that matters. Are you sure you enabled "options VM86" in the kernel configuration file and loaded the vesa module by the boot loader? Would you tell me more about the bitmap file you are attempting to load? Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 22:23:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D105114D50 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA26567; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA42637; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Matthew Hunt Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Hunt wrote: > If I add "-export-dynamic" to LDADD in usr.bin/login/Makefile, everything > is groovy. > > I've noticed that dynamic linking in Perl also doesn't work for me, > likely for the same reason. I haven't tried rebuilding perl with > "-export-dynamic" yet, though. > > So, the question now is: Why do I need "-export-dynamic", when > evidently nobody else does? I don't know. Maybe you have something unusual in your /etc/make.conf file? John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 1 23:37:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.albury.net.au (marvin.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB14214D61 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:37:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josh2@marvin.albury.net.au) Received: (from josh2@localhost) by marvin.albury.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA41850 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:36:52 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from josh2) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:36:51 +1000 (EST) From: Josh2 Lists To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cant compile with cpufunc.h, barfs. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there. I have a simple prog that writes to a bit on the parallel port. It compiles fine under 2.2.x (tested on 2.2.5 and 2.2.8) BUT the compiler barfs over . with 3.1-release. I am trying to use outb(base,onoff). bash-2.02$ cc -o out1 outF.c In file included from outF.c:10: /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h:155: parse error before `inbc' /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h:155: parse error before `port' /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h: In function `inbc': .... MUCH MORE :-) The prog is not a driver, it cheats by opening /dev/io first. Please help me, I would like to get this working under 3.1 as it did under 2.2.5 TIA Josh ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Josh2 Lists Date: 02-Jun-99 Time: 16:15:19 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 0:38:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5043015137 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id JAA20392; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:38:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:38:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Dennis Cc: Alexander Maret , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199906012257.SAA25604@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If it "had no backing" then how could it be a "fact"? I assume that if you report that a card fails to work that that is true. That makes it a fact, e.g. my seat is red, but I'm not going to send you a picture to prove it. > replacing the cards with intels and having the problem go away is backing. > It may not be *useful*, but it is backing. Backing of the fact that there is a problem that you need to solve in a limited amount of money, yes. No backing of the fact that the problem is caused by the xl driver, e.g. if a card is not well seated you solve the problem as well by replacing the card. Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 2:51:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst315.netaddress.usa.net (unknown [204.68.23.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BF3314D93 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 02:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 17411 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 1999 09:51:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990602095139.17410.qmail@nwcst315.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.60 by nwcst315 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.135) on Wed Jun 2 09:51:39 GMT 1999 Date: 2 Jun 99 02:51:39 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Mike Smith , Matt Barringer Subject: Re: [Re: Kernel config script ] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.135) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > Perhaps this is the wrong list to post this question, but has there b= een > > any work done on a script (similar to what Slackware Linux uses) that= > > asks the user questions ("Do you want to run SCO binaries", etc) and > > configures a kernel conf file for them? > > = > > If not, I'll volunteer to write one... > = > Not useful; there's a single-line edit in /etc/rc.conf that does = > everything that's required. > = Is useful; comment is useless. --- IN that context, it is the BSD that should be considered, not the prefix. http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/cgi-bin/newsread?34858 ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 3: 9: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C592814E85 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 03:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip137.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.137]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E2837079; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA36828; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:08:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:08:44 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Josh2 Lists Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cant compile with cpufunc.h, barfs. Message-ID: <19990602050844.D34732@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Josh2 Lists on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 04:36:51PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 2, 1999, Josh2 Lists wrote: > Hi there. > I have a simple prog that writes to a bit on the parallel port. > It compiles fine under 2.2.x (tested on 2.2.5 and 2.2.8) BUT > the compiler barfs over . with 3.1-release. > I am trying to use outb(base,onoff). > > bash-2.02$ cc -o out1 outF.c > In file included from outF.c:10: > /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h:155: parse error before `inbc' > /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h:155: parse error before `port' > /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h: In function `inbc': You need to include or . Both include which #defines something you need to be able to use cpufunc.h. -- Chris Costello If a program is useful, it must be changed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 4: 7:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (unknown [202.103.112.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF0F14CF1 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 04:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fretre@163.net) Received: from k ([10.63.52.133]) by www.zz.hn.cninfo.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA22583 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:04:45 +0800 Message-ID: <000201beacec$98086960$85343f0a@k> From: "fretre" To: Subject: where is variable edata defined ? Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:35:44 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEAD2F.1B5CFE60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEAD2F.1B5CFE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The variable such as _edata, _etext,_gdt are defined in the file asnames.h(/usr/include/machine/asnames.h),but 1. Where is the file that the variable such as edata,etext,gdt are defined in? and 2. What's the file name? Thank you very much Fre Tre ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEAD2F.1B5CFE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The variable such as _edata, = _etext,_gdt are=20 defined in the
file=20 asnames.h(/usr/include/machine/asnames.h),but
1. Where is the file that the = variable such as=20 edata,etext,gdt
   are defined in? = and
2. What's the file = name?
 
Thank you very much
Fre Tre
<fretre@163.net>
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEAD2F.1B5CFE60-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 6: 6:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F004A14C58 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@sr.hp.com) Received: from postal.sr.hp.com (root@postal.sr.hp.com [15.4.46.173]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id JAA22832 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.sr.hp.com (root@mina.sr.hp.com [15.4.42.247]) by postal.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id GAA23921 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (darrylo@mina.sr.hp.com [15.4.42.247]) by mina.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id GAA22439 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906021301.GAA22439@mina.sr.hp.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:50:45 MDT." <37540155.1BF16326@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.1.1.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 06:01:17 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and > more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," > I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX > was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill > for such an application. I'm curious: in your opinion, what is the purpose of Unix? Personally, I'd much rather use a single OS for everything -- including word processing. I don't -- today -- but that's where I'd like to be. -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 6:10:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B159214C58 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id PAA05749; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:10:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01855; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:10:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:10:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Dennis Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com In-Reply-To: <199906011703.NAA24073@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Of course now that you've publically badmouthed us Im sure your requests > well get very high priority :-) This is very unprofessional. I hope I shall never have to order from your company, and will advice others of this as appropriate. - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 6:20:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2A414D39 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-70-174.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.70.174]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00429; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA01212; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:23:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199906021323.JAA01212@bellsouth.net> To: Nick Popoff Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD Book Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 May 1999 17:47:45 PDT." <3.0.6.32.19990531174745.007b2100@void.bloodletting.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:23:00 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sorry if this is off topic for this list, but I'm about to dive head first > into more advanced FreeBSD and I'm badly in need of a good reference book. [snip] I've not missed having a shelf of books about FreeBSD, mainly because of the reference materials served by the FreeBSD CVSup servers. If you *really* want to dig into FreeBSD's inner workings, I'd suggest setting up a local repository and mirror of the mail archives. There's gold in there! :) Good Luck, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 7: 5: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF0014D04 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA37343; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:05:02 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990602070502.B37254@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from John Polstra on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 10:23:46PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 10:23:46PM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > I don't know. Maybe you have something unusual in your > /etc/make.conf file? Confusinger and confusinger. Somehow, perl and login, the two programs with which I had dynamic linking problems, had been stripped. I don't know how that happened, since I didn't do it. Using "make install" from their source directories installed them unstripped, as they should be. I'll try building the world again sometime and see what happens. This is all very puzzling, as the perl problem at least has affected me for several "make world"s. I think it might just be one of those problems that goes away when you report it... Thanks for your help. Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 7:25:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.232.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2461E14D04; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by bilby.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29990; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:24:28 +0800 (WST) Received: (from shocking@localhost) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id WAA02267; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:25:22 +0800 (WST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:25:22 +0800 (WST) From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Message-Id: <199906021425.WAA02267@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com> To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Finding out what function an interrupt is tied to.. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm having some problems since when the newbus code went in, in that my sound card doesn't seem to be interrupting anymore (PAS16, Voxware drivers). So what I'd like to do is look at the kernel and see if an interrupt actually has a function associated with it, and if it's being masked out. Any ideas? Of course, this would have to happen just as I learnt to rip my music CD's into mp3s. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 7:41:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632CD14BFC for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id HAA07596; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id HAA13630; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:35:16 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA07923; Wed, 2 Jun 99 07:35:13 PDT Message-Id: <37554120.6F6FF409@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:35:12 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Darryl Okahata Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script References: <199906021301.GAA22439@mina.sr.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darryl Okahata wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and > > more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," > > I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX > > was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill > > for such an application. > > I'm curious: in your opinion, what is the purpose of Unix? > > Personally, I'd much rather use a single OS for everything -- > including word processing. I don't -- today -- but that's where I'd > like to be. For most of the things you do on a daily basis, the OS should be unobservable. Do you care what OS you're using when you change your thermostat, program your VCR, or set your sprinkler timers? When you start your dishwasher, or microwave a burrito for lunch? No? Then why do you care what operating system you use to start a word processor, or a web browser for that matter? These are very utilitarian tasks that are usually stuck onto general purpose computers, but certainly don't need to be. The logical place for UNIX, IMHO, is in the ever-smaller "server" machine that will sit in your house (and eventually your car, boat, or anything else of sufficient size to need one) and coordinate everything that is going on. The parts that people interact with should be very task-specific, like a remote control for your TV/VCR, For the most part don't require as many operating system features as UNIX provides, which means you're wasting space. That is not to say that the OS required in these devices couldn't (or shouldn't) be a stripped-down version of UNIX, and very UNIX-like from the API, but most of the user interface devices will not, for instance, need to run a line printer spooler or a mail server. (What they really need is a good logging mechanism to send "events" back to that central server.) I'm willing to accept that "word processor" was probably not the best example to use; my original snipe was directed at a FreeBSD friend at Apple, who once produced as close to an ideal word processing platform as anyone. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 8:17:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE42B14F7E for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eT@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from root@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA04404 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:13:41 +0200 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by KryptoWall via smtpp (Version 1.2.0) id kwa04401; Wed Jun 02 19:13:33 1999 Received: from borg.kryptokom.de (borg.Kryptokom.DE [192.168.6.132]) by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27837 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:24:46 +0200 Received: from kryptokom.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03661 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:35:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eT@kryptokom.de) Message-ID: <37554F22.F9DB4893@kryptokom.de> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:34:59 +0200 From: eT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-19980804-SNAP i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hackers FreeBSD Subject: Measurements ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greets! I have the following network setup: A <--> network <--> B I would like to measure throughput through my network by blasting B with packets from A and other way around. I would then like to measure the Mbits/sec packets received on either side with varying packet sizes (ip). Accuracy is of utmost importance ... which package or so can you recommend i use? Regards -- Etienne de Bruin; edebruin@iname.com visit eT on the web: http://listen.to/eT (last update: 12 Mar 1999) "i am in your hands under your command like a puppet on a string" - dc talk, consume me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 8:18:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peewee.cdrom.com (simo-ppp.eccosys.com [199.100.7.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF56914F7E; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) Received: from peewee (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peewee.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09740; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:30:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:42:27 +0200." <19990601074227.B58405@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:30:43 -0700 Message-ID: <9736.928333843@peewee> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The point that FreeBSD won't willingly be using restricted source code > as a part of our distribution mechanism, I think. It seems to be I'm sure that Kirk has a good reason for leaving the current "modified BSD license" in place for soft updates and when whatever timer he has on that runs out and allows us to configure it in by default, meaning that I have only to add an option to GENERIC while building the boot floppies, then I'll do it. I still don't see what the fuss is about in any case since soft updates would be SLOWER than the async mode I use during installation and anyone who's actually bothered to benchmark extraction of files with the two systems knows this. Have you ever timed it? If not, why not? That seems the minimum amount of work one would be expected to put in before arguing passionately on any topic. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 8:35:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679DD152BE; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA02858; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:35:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA70991; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:35:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:35:28 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990602173528.B70808@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990601074227.B58405@bitbox.follo.net> <9736.928333843@peewee> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <9736.928333843@peewee>; from Jordan Hubbard on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:30:43AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 07:30:43AM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > I still don't see what the fuss is about in any case since soft > updates would be SLOWER than the async mode I use during installation > and anyone who's actually bothered to benchmark extraction of files > with the two systems knows this. Have you ever timed it? If not, why > not? That seems the minimum amount of work one would be expected to > put in before arguing passionately on any topic. :-) Because benchmarking something that is synchronously creating inodes all over the disk in a rotating fashion (due to the directory allocation policy) against something that is running fully async and with an elevator sort over the full set of transactions should be sort of useless. It's like doing uphill testing of a fat guy on a bicycle against a Lamborghini - you "know" the result beforehand. If extraction of the ports collection (not files in general, just the ports collection) is slower using soft updates than using "async" mode, then it seems some elevator sorting isn't working the way it should, or we are getting queue stalls due to a limited queue size somewhere. Unfortunately I can't dedicate time right now to investigate it; there are a number of other things I need to get out of my FreeBSD backlog first. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 8:40:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34C915284 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15728; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906021540.LAA15728@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: 3.2-STABLE, 11th panic Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:40:26 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here is a backtrace from our latest. Does anyone have any ideas to try. Is there any way to loock at who has the other lock on the file? (Yes, I know it is the kernel who has it, but it is requested on behalf of a NFSd, no?) (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 #1 0xc014baa4 in at_shutdown ( function=0xc02354bb <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+179>, arg=0xc74e9080, queue=65538) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 #2 0xc0147794 in debuglockmgr (lkp=0xc1528400, flags=16842754, interlkp=0xc74e90f0, p=0xc743eb20, name=0xc0237d57 "vop_stdlock", file=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 #3 0xc016d6c1 in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a5c) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:211 #4 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a5c) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #5 0xc0176635 in debug_vn_lock (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20, filename=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at vnode_if.h:811 #6 0xc01700d1 in vget (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=2, p=0xc743eb20) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 #7 0xc016c1b3 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 #8 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482b24) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 #9 0xc016e7c1 in lookup (ndp=0xc7482d94) at vnode_if.h:31 #10 0xc01b8260 in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7482d94, fhp=0xc7482d0c, len=3, slp=0xc0f7e400, nam=0xc0f541a0, mdp=0xc7482c48, dposp=0xc7482c44, retdirp=0xc7482c2c, p=0xc743eb20, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 #11 0xc01a123f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc13d3400, slp=0xc0f7e400, procp=0xc743eb20, mrq=0xc7482e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 #12 0xc01b9cba in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7482e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743eb20) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 #13 0xc01b95d5 in nfssvc (p=0xc743eb20, uap=0xc7482f94) at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 #14 0xc020d02f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951570460, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 #15 0xc0203e5c in Xint0x80_syscall () #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 9:32:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 73C9F152BD for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 49498 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Jun 1999 16:32:08 +0000 (GMT) To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, dscheidt@enteract.com, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:35:28 +0200" References: <19990602173528.B70808@bitbox.follo.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:32:07 +0200 Message-ID: <49496.928341127@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I still don't see what the fuss is about in any case since soft > > updates would be SLOWER than the async mode I use during installation > > and anyone who's actually bothered to benchmark extraction of files > > with the two systems knows this. Have you ever timed it? If not, why > > not? That seems the minimum amount of work one would be expected to > > put in before arguing passionately on any topic. :-) > > Because benchmarking something that is synchronously creating inodes > all over the disk in a rotating fashion (due to the directory > allocation policy) against something that is running fully async and > with an elevator sort over the full set of transactions should be sort > of useless. It's like doing uphill testing of a fat guy on a bicycle > against a Lamborghini - you "know" the result beforehand. > > If extraction of the ports collection (not files in general, just the > ports collection) is slower using soft updates than using "async" > mode, then it seems some elevator sorting isn't working the way it > should, or we are getting queue stalls due to a limited queue size > somewhere. OK, here's a practical result. PII-350 running 3.2-STABLE, extracting the ports from 3.2-19990526-STABLE.tgz. The disk is a Barracuda 9 LP (ST39173W) on an Adaptec 7890 controller. The file system was newfs'ed (8 kbytes/inode) before each extraction. Softupdates: # time tar xzf /local/ports-3.2-19990526-STABLE.tgz 6.274u 38.703s 11:09.90 6.7% 283+1045k 1100+112517io 0pf+0w Async: # time tar xzf /local/ports-3.2-19990526-STABLE.tgz 6.311u 69.739s 12:06.17 10.4% 283+1027k 1378+118407io 0pf+0w Not a huge difference, but enough to be noticeable. Watching with vmstat while the extraction was running, you could clearly see more disk operations per second for softupdates. As always, YMMV. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 9:36:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE2314F8A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:36:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA25401; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:36:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Wes Peters Cc: David Scheidt , Darryl Okahata , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script: References: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Jun 1999 18:36:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters's message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:31:57 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters writes: > David Scheidt wrote: > > I should point out that UNIX's suitably as a document processing > > enviornment is one of the reasons that UNIX received support from > > BTL management. The fact that it was stable, ran on cheap hardware, > > and a cool programing enviornment were bonuses. > [...] The ongoing text processing work became one > of several projects that were developed at Bell Labs on UNIX, but > it was not the reason UNIX was created. Umm, how does "UNIX's suitability as a document processing system is one of the reasons UNIX received support from BTL management" translate into "UNIX was created to run a word processor"? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 9:43:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E93515382 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:43:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA25435; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:43:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Dennis Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xl driver for 3Com References: <199905302150.OAA12070@dingo.cdrom.com> <199906011703.NAA24073@etinc.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Jun 1999 18:43:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dennis's message of "Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:59:16 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis writes: > We have thousands of boards installed....making them work back to back in a > non-standard configuration does not make the product *better*, particularly > when working with someone who cant provide useful info on *why* it doesnt > work. I wish I could stop what I was doing every time someone had a > problem, but I dont have that kind of time. Wow... lemme pull out my replace-o-matic: "We have thousands of FreeBSD installations. Making them work with broken hardware / software does not make the OS *better*, particularly when working with someone who can't provide useful info on *why* it doesn't work. I wish I could stop what I was doing every time someone had a problem, but I don't have that kind of time." Neat. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 9:47:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C849A152F4 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA25449; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:47:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Matthew Hunt Cc: John Polstra , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime References: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> <19990602070502.B37254@wopr.caltech.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Jun 1999 18:47:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hunt's message of "Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:05:02 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Hunt writes: > Confusinger and confusinger. Somehow, perl and login, the two > programs with which I had dynamic linking problems, had been stripped. > I don't know how that happened, since I didn't do it. Using > "make install" from their source directories installed them unstripped, > as they should be. Do you perchance have something like INSTALL=install -s in your /etc/make.conf? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 9:54:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C03E152F0 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:53:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA42052; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:52:36 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: John Polstra , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAM: Undefined symbols at runtime Message-ID: <19990602095236.A41870@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990531121122.A29277@wopr.caltech.edu> <19990602070502.B37254@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 06:47:16PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 06:47:16PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Do you perchance have something like > > INSTALL=install -s > > in your /etc/make.conf? Nope. I ran mergemaster before my experiments, but I checked both my old and new make.conf and there's no setting relevant to INSTALL in either. Maybe I changed *something* that was wrong during mergemaster, but I was looking out for anything that was relevant to my problem, and I didn't see anything. It's all quite odd, as far as I'm concerned. Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 10:31:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BDDF14C30 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA10813; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA00309; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:31:20 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA15649; Wed, 2 Jun 99 10:31:14 PDT Message-Id: <37556A5F.AD9C508D@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:31:11 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: eT Cc: Hackers FreeBSD Subject: Re: Measurements ... References: <37554F22.F9DB4893@kryptokom.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eT wrote: > > Greets! > > I have the following network setup: > > A <--> network <--> B > > I would like to measure throughput through my network by blasting B with > packets from A and other way around. I would then like to measure the > Mbits/sec packets received on either side with varying packet sizes (ip). > > Accuracy is of utmost importance ... which package or so can you recommend i > use? Spray for UDP, and my new, improved version of tcpblast for TCP, as soon as I actually get the "short packet" code working. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 10:36:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129D414C30 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA87090 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37556B9E.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:36:30 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: aout gdb in an elf system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How does one build a gdb that can read aout programs, in an ELF system? julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 10:52:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from timingpdc.timing.com (timingpdc.timing.com [208.203.137.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86C615108 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chanders@timing.com) Received: from count.timing.com ([208.203.137.222]) by timingpdc.timing.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-49575U100L2S100) with ESMTP id AAA289 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:56:35 -0600 Received: (from chanders@localhost) by count.timing.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02847 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:54:53 -0600 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:54:53 -0600 From: chanders@timing.com (Craig Anderson) Message-Id: <199906021754.LAA02847@count.timing.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: thread safe STL? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone have experience with a thread safe STL? /usr/ports/devel/stlport is derived from stlport 3.01 found at http://www.stlport.org/index.shtml Is this thread safe? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 11:16:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFAB1540E for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14736; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906021816.LAA14736@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Arun Sharma Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pv_table/pv_entry Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:16:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:35 -0700 Arun Sharma wrote: > Going through the 4.4 BSD book, I learnt that the purpose of the pv_table > is to be able to locate all the mappings to a given physical page. > > However, comparing this to the Linux approach, which chains vm_area_struct > (analogous to vm_map_entry in FreeBSD) together to locate the shared > mappings, it appears to me that the Linux approach is more space efficient. > > So why not eliminate pv_table and chain vm_map_entries together to represent > the sharing information ? ....because in the Mach VM system (which is what FreeBSD is derived from), map entries may represent several virtual (and thus physical) pages. NetBSD's UVM is the same way. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 12:39:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E185158E1 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA28984; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906021940.PAA28984@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:36:11 -0400 To: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: Re: 3.2-STABLE, 11th panic Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu In-Reply-To: <199906021540.LAA15728@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG JFYI: We are seeing panics with gated running with a big table...seems to be getting memory allocation failure, even though there seems to be plenty of buffers. I dont have any real good info on it yet. Dennis At 11:40 AM 6/2/99 -0400, David E. Cross wrote: >Here is a backtrace from our latest. Does anyone have any ideas to try. Is >there any way to loock at who has the other lock on the file? (Yes, I know >it is the kernel who has it, but it is requested on behalf of a NFSd, no?) > >(kgdb) bt >#0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 >#1 0xc014baa4 in at_shutdown ( > function=0xc02354bb <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+179>, arg=0xc74e9080, queue=65538) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 >#2 0xc0147794 in debuglockmgr (lkp=0xc1528400, flags=16842754, > interlkp=0xc74e90f0, p=0xc743eb20, name=0xc0237d57 "vop_stdlock", > file=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) > at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 >#3 0xc016d6c1 in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a5c) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:211 >#4 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a5c) > at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 >#5 0xc0176635 in debug_vn_lock (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20, > filename=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at vnode_if.h:811 >#6 0xc01700d1 in vget (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=2, p=0xc743eb20) > at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 >#7 0xc016c1b3 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7482b24) > at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 >#8 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482b24) > at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 >#9 0xc016e7c1 in lookup (ndp=0xc7482d94) at vnode_if.h:31 >#10 0xc01b8260 in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7482d94, fhp=0xc7482d0c, len=3, > slp=0xc0f7e400, nam=0xc0f541a0, mdp=0xc7482c48, dposp=0xc7482c44, > retdirp=0xc7482c2c, p=0xc743eb20, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) > at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 >#11 0xc01a123f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc13d3400, slp=0xc0f7e400, > procp=0xc743eb20, mrq=0xc7482e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 >#12 0xc01b9cba in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7482e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743eb20) > at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 >#13 0xc01b95d5 in nfssvc (p=0xc743eb20, uap=0xc7482f94) > at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 >#14 0xc020d02f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, > tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951570460, tf_ebx = 0, > tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, > tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, > tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 >#15 0xc0203e5c in Xint0x80_syscall () >#16 0x80480e9 in ?? () > >-- >David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu >Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd >Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 >Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 >I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 13:58:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792CE14F60; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:58:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08673; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:58:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:58:11 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Finding out what function an interrupt is tied to.. In-Reply-To: <199906021425.WAA02267@bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > I'm having some problems since when the newbus code went in, in that > my sound card doesn't seem to be interrupting anymore (PAS16, Voxware > drivers). So what I'd like to do is look at the kernel and see > if an interrupt actually has a function associated with it, and if > it's being masked out. Any ideas? Of course, this would have to happen > just as I learnt to rip my music CD's into mp3s. I suggest that you start by putting print statements (or using the kernel debugger) to find out what is going on in nexus_setup_intr() (i386/i386/nexus.c). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 14: 4:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BBF914F60 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08696; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:04:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:04:20 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aout gdb in an elf system In-Reply-To: <37556B9E.2781E494@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > How does one build a gdb that can read aout programs, in an ELF > system? Not easily. The old gdb-4.16 could be built this way by not defining FREEBSD_ELF but its a lot of hassle since you need a.out bfd etc. You possibly pick an a.out gdb binary out of an old release and try that. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 14:22:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uwcunx.uwc.ac.za (unknown [196.11.235.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BC114BEF for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dsigasa@uwc.ac.za) Received: from itsnw.uwc.ac.za (itsnw.uwc.ac.za [192.102.9.48]) by uwcunx.uwc.ac.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA02893 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:22:01 +0200 (SAT) Received: from ITS#u#GW-Message_Server by itsnw.uwc.ac.za with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:18:20 +0200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:18:03 +0200 From: ISAAC SIGASA To: hackers@freebsd.ORG Subject: Linking the kernel to include QuickCam device driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ** High Priority ** ** Reply Requested When Convenient ** Greetings, I sincerely request information on how to reconfigure the FreeBSD kernel to include the QCam device driver. In our organisation we have just installed the FreeBSD and have QuickCam VC and like to use it for video conferencing. Please give me the detailed steps as I am a new to UNIX user, for what I must type at the command prompt to get the camera working. I have read your site concerning this but do not understand especially on device major and minor numbers, please include this in your discussion. I will appreciate your help very much as my organization depends on me for this. Most sincerely, Isaac To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 14:33:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2ED114D2C for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26679; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:55:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:55:08 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: ISAAC SIGASA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linking the kernel to include QuickCam device driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, ISAAC SIGASA wrote: > ** High Priority ** > ** Reply Requested When Convenient ** > > Greetings, > > I sincerely request information on how to reconfigure the > FreeBSD kernel to include the QCam device driver. In our > organisation we have just installed the FreeBSD and have > QuickCam VC and like to use it for video conferencing. FreeBSD doesn't support the VC as far as I know. Connectix, makers of the Quickcam have been extremely unhelpful providing access to documentation for free software developers to use thier products. There is support for the previous generation quickcams in the ports collection: /usr/ports/graphics/qcread If anything you should investigate a bt848 based capture card: http://www.hauppage.com/ I really like my "winTV" card. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 14:54:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A523914E9C for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-144-30.s30.as4.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.144.30]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15974; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199906020524.OAA17278@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Subject: Re: Extra text modes via vidcontrol... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-Jun-99 Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > >>> 3. The video card doesn't support required graphics modes. >>> Run 'vidcontrol -i mode' and see if the 320x200 256 color mode >>> is supported. The vga driver in FreeBSD may not be able to support >>> all video modes, if the video card's BIOS is not as compatible as >>> it should be. >> >>I have a somewhat related question for you: I cannot set many extended text >>modes (80x60, 80x50, 132x50, etc.) even though they are listed in the output >>from `vidcontrol -i mode`. My card is a Matrox Millenium G200 AGP if that is >>any help. Any suggestions for getting all those modes to work? > > These text modes with more than 25 lines require 8x8 font which is not > loaded to the kernel by default. You can load one of 8x8 font files in > /usr/share/syscons/fonts via `vidcontrol -f _font_file_name_'. > > You can automatically load font at boot time by editting > /etc/rc.conf.local (3.1-RELEASE or later) or /rc/rc.conf (3.0-RELEASE > or earlier includeing 2.2.X). Duh.. Is this documented anywhere? It might be nice if the vidcontrol man page mentioned that certain modes required certain fonts, for instance. >>Also, do you know of any chipsets that just don't 'work' with the VESA >>support >>for large splash screens? We have a bunch of ATI Rage3D cards at my school >>that won't load any splash screen above 320x200 even though they support VESA >>2.0 and contain lots of video modes in their tables. > > I don't have such list. It is "chipset", but "BIOS" that matters. > > Are you sure you enabled "options VM86" in the kernel configuration > file and loaded the vesa module by the boot loader? Yep, but I just checked the ouput of 'vidcontrol < /dev/ttyv0 -i mode' and even with VM86 and VESA compiled into the kernel, the only 8-bit graphics mode is 320x200.. blech. Guess all these cards just have crappy BIOS's. > Would you tell me more about the bitmap file you are attempting to > load? Just a plain ol' 640x480x8 BMP. It does load fine on my workstation with a Matrox G200 and on one of the servers at work that has a Cirrus chip. > Kazu --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 15: 4: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3086814BEF; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA14519; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA10524; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:03:19 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA28532; Wed, 2 Jun 99 15:03:17 PDT Message-Id: <3755AA24.6939A257@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:03:16 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linking the kernel to include QuickCam device driver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > If anything you should investigate a bt848 based capture card: > > http://www.hauppage.com/ > > I really like my "winTV" card. Speaking of the bt driver, Hauppage mentions Linux drivers in their FAQ on their support web page, but not FreeBSD. Do we have a URL anywhere that refers to the brooktree driver or the WinTV card, so we can get FreeBSD on their "self-supported" list also? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 15:16:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (ha1.rdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.0.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23AB414CAA for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.69.165]) by mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990602221632.ZMUH13307.mail.rdc1.sfba.home.com@c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:16:32 -0700 Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30965; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:16:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:16:31 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Jason Thorpe Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pv_table/pv_entry Message-ID: <19990602151631.A30920@home.com> References: <199906021816.LAA14736@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199906021816.LAA14736@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>; from Jason Thorpe on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 11:16:32AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 11:16:32AM -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:35 -0700 > Arun Sharma wrote: > > > Going through the 4.4 BSD book, I learnt that the purpose of the pv_table > > is to be able to locate all the mappings to a given physical page. > > > > However, comparing this to the Linux approach, which chains vm_area_struct > > (analogous to vm_map_entry in FreeBSD) together to locate the shared > > mappings, it appears to me that the Linux approach is more space efficient. > > > > So why not eliminate pv_table and chain vm_map_entries together to represent > > the sharing information ? > > ....because in the Mach VM system (which is what FreeBSD is derived from), > map entries may represent several virtual (and thus physical) pages. > That's right. But by chaining vm_map_entries, you don't lose any sharing information. You can _infer_ the same information by walking the vm_map_entries. By keeping the pv_table, you're making it explicit, which makes certain operations very fast - at the cost of some space. The overhead seems to be a constant of 0.4% + sizeof(pv_entry) * degree of sharing. Sounds like a good trade off to me. -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 15:58: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from valis.worldgate.com (valis.worldgate.com [198.161.84.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2102E14E0D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by valis.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05455 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA24706 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:57:55 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 Message-ID: <19990602165754.C23559@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running several osicom 2340 quad ethernet cards under RELENG_2_2 with few issues (quad digital 21140). I've setup a testbox 1 hd has RELENG_2_2 a second disk has RELENG_3 (cvsuped yesterday). Under RELENG_3 the nic pauses underload, regardless of which port is being used. Gated is running on the box with ospf and there is mbone traffic on one of the ethernet ports, so multicast does come into play. Any thoughts or comments. As a side note OSICOM has just released a quad intel 82558 card. -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 16:10: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.skunk.org (unknown [207.25.53.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D88914E0D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:09:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@penelope.skunk.org) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by mailhost.skunk.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17791 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:10:08 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:10:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Rosengart To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: documentation on packages Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm looking for some documentation on how to create packages. Specifically, I need to learn how to make the package perform certain actions upon installation. Does anyone have a pointer to some good docs on package rolling? As usual with this list, I'd appreciate a copy of any replies, as I don't have time for -stable, -current *and* -hackers. Thanks in advance. -- Ben UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 16:40:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474C514E0D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: from whistle.com (crab.whistle.com [207.76.205.112]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA37439; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA70387; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199906022339.QAA70387@whistle.com> Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 In-Reply-To: <19990602165754.C23559@gras-varg.worldgate.com> from Greg Skafte at "Jun 2, 99 04:57:55 pm" To: skafte@worldgate.com (Greg Skafte) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Skafte writes: | I'm running several osicom 2340 quad ethernet cards under RELENG_2_2 with | few issues (quad digital 21140). | | I've setup a testbox 1 hd has RELENG_2_2 a second disk has RELENG_3 | (cvsuped yesterday). | | Under RELENG_3 the nic pauses underload, regardless of which port is being | used. FYI, I've seen similar problems with other quad ethernet cards. I haven't been able to track it down yet. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 16:45: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from valis.worldgate.com (valis.worldgate.com [198.161.84.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EADB15108 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by valis.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08433; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA25095; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:44:55 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 Message-ID: <19990602174454.B24872@gras-varg.worldgate.com> References: <19990602165754.C23559@gras-varg.worldgate.com> <199906022339.QAA70387@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906022339.QAA70387@whistle.com>; from Doug Ambrisko on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 04:39:45PM -0700 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG are these all dec 21x4x cards or not .... Quoting Doug Ambrisko (ambrisko@whistle.com) On Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 Date: Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 04:39:45PM -0700 > Greg Skafte writes: > | I'm running several osicom 2340 quad ethernet cards under RELENG_2_2 with > | few issues (quad digital 21140). > | > | I've setup a testbox 1 hd has RELENG_2_2 a second disk has RELENG_3 > | (cvsuped yesterday). > | > | Under RELENG_3 the nic pauses underload, regardless of which port is being > | used. > > FYI, I've seen similar problems with other quad ethernet cards. I haven't > been able to track it down yet. > > Doug A. -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 18: 3:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFFE814EF8 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA88707; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:02:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Ben Rosengart Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: documentation on packages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Ben Rosengart wrote: > Hello, > I'm looking for some documentation on how to create packages. > Specifically, I need to learn how to make the package perform certain > actions upon installation. > > Does anyone have a pointer to some good docs on package rolling? > > As usual with this list, I'd appreciate a copy of any replies, as I > don't have time for -stable, -current *and* -hackers. Thanks in > advance. Well, the conventional way to do it is create a port, and then just "make package". If you want to hand-roll one, I've never done that, but I'd read pkg_create(1) first if I did. Actually, I'd do the port, then use the stuff from pkg_create to add notation to the PLIST to get what you're asking for. > > -- > Ben > > UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group > StarMedia Network, Inc. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 18: 6:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C2414EF8 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip137.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.137]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305F037004; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA39178; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:06:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:06:04 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Chuck Robey Cc: Ben Rosengart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: documentation on packages Message-ID: <19990602200604.E38175@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 09:02:58PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 2, 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > Actually, I'd do the port, then use the stuff from pkg_create to add > notation to the PLIST to get what you're asking for. Or, once you're finished with your port... make install make package make deinstall -- Chris Costello Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. - Brook To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 18:27:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFC415360 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:27:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA88773; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:26:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Chris Costello Cc: Ben Rosengart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: documentation on packages In-Reply-To: <19990602200604.E38175@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > On Wed, Jun 2, 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Actually, I'd do the port, then use the stuff from pkg_create to add > > notation to the PLIST to get what you're asking for. > > Or, once you're finished with your port... > > make install > make package > make deinstall Which wouldn't work alone, because he said he had some special things he wanted the package to execute. He'll have to doctor the PLIST with some @exec lines to get the features he wants, then do the lines above. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 19:10:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.talcom.net (unknown [209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF6C14DF3 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leo@homer.talcom.net) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.talcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA02753 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:13:31 -0400 From: Leo Papandreou To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script: Message-ID: <19990602221331.A841@homer.talcom.net> References: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 07:31:57PM -0600 X-No-Archive: Yes X-Organization: Not very, no. X-Wife: Forgotten but not gone. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 07:31:57PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: [...] > > And, as far as *word processors* go, troff, nroff, and ed pretty > much suck. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree they are useful > tools, as borne out by the number of books that have been typeset > over the years using troff. But a word processor they DO NOT make. Thats absolutely correct. They have no built-in diversion to cope with writer's block. With MS-Word you can futz with fonts for hours :-) [...] > > But as a word processor, is it really any better than MacWrite on an > original Mac 128K? Or, to stack the deck a little more, a Mac Plus? > *I* don't think so. That was a system well suited to word processing, > except the tiny screen. Nothing since then has advanced the state of > the art in word processing, only in being able to do other things with > your word processor. > Dont forget included page layout functionality which allows everyone to accomplish thoroughly banal work equally well. In a variety of fonts, no less. I'm still amazed at how long the typesetting trade got by without 3d logos. People must have read documents, or something, back when. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 19:29:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543DF14F2E for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA156171718; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:15:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Greg Skafte Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 In-Reply-To: <19990602165754.C23559@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Greg Skafte wrote: > As a side note OSICOM has just released a quad intel 82558 card. I wasn't able to get the dual card(From Intel) to work. I'd like to hear of anyone who gets the OSICOM card to work. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 19:34:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683A31506B for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02530; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906030231.TAA02530@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Greg Skafte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:15:18 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 19:31:25 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Greg Skafte wrote: > > > As a side note OSICOM has just released a quad intel 82558 card. > > I wasn't able to get the dual card(From Intel) to work. I'd like to hear > of anyone who gets the OSICOM card to work. Many other people have insisted that the dual card works fine; Compaq also have a dual card that appears upgradeable to a quad, also using the Intel 82558 parts. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 19:40:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B85615330 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA159712368; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:26:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:26:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Skafte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DE driver in RELENG_3 vs RELENG_2_2 In-Reply-To: <199906030231.TAA02530@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > Many other people have insisted that the dual card works fine; Compaq > also have a dual card that appears upgradeable to a quad, also using > the Intel 82558 parts. The dual card probes fine for me. I just couldn't put any traffic over it ever. (tcpdump never saw any either) Perhaps I'll dust off the card and toss it in a test machine and whine louder and try more obscure things this time. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 22:42:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3926014CA3 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id WAA17606; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA29471; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:42:35 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA18035; Wed, 2 Jun 99 22:42:32 PDT Message-Id: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:42:33 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Johan Jansson wrote: > > NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all > their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base > for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: > > "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well > as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." > > I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be > accessed from here: > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty cheap... -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 22:55:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lcremeans.erols.com (lcremeans.erols.com [216.164.87.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC56614C8B for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@lcremeans.erols.com) Received: (from lee@localhost) by lcremeans.erols.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id BAA52606; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:55:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19990603015532.A52577@erols.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:55:32 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] References: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 11:42:33PM -0600 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-STABLE Organization: My room? Are you crazy? :) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 11:42:33PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Johan Jansson wrote: > > > > NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all > > their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base > > for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: > > > > "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well > > as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." > > > > I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be > > accessed from here: > > > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > > Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A > killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already > in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty > cheap... The people running the Matrox G200 GLX development effort are also handling this (I'm on the g200-dev list and can see the commit messsages). The G200 part, at least, works great under FreeBSD, so I'd assume getting the nVidia part to work would be trivial. -lee...however, I don't have a TNT to play with. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on WTnet) | | lcremeans@erols.com | http://wakky.dyndns.org/~lee | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23: 1:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DFF14E7A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21959; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:30:22 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:30:22 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Wes Peters Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Wes Peters wrote: > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > > Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A > killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already > in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty > cheap... Well the patches are there :) I suppose it would work OK, but no TNT to test with either. My friend is getting an Asus TNT2 soon, so I will try it and see :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (cr965240-b.abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.19.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9384B14E7A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cpiazza@home.net) Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (localhost.norn.ca.eu.org [127.0.0.1]) by norn.ca.eu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267CA1474; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 897 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: Chris Piazza From: Chris Piazza To: "Daniel O'Connor" Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 03-Jun-99 Wes Peters wrote: >> > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers >> >> Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A >> killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already >> in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty >> cheap... > > Well the patches are there :) > > I suppose it would work OK, but no TNT to test with either. > > My friend is getting an Asus TNT2 soon, so I will try it and see :) > I was about to try this myself. I have a Creative Labs TNT (AGP) in this box. Just downloading the XFree86 source right now and I'm going to build it overnight assuming it works. If not I'm sure it'll be fun (heh) to track down. --- Chris Piazza Abbotsford, BC, Canada cpiazza@home.net finger norn@norn.ca.eu.org for PGP key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:11:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ACC.sumy.net (ACC.sim.net.ua [62.244.20.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFD214E7A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pasha@sim.net.ua) Received: from sim.net.ua (GW.sumy.net [62.244.20.220]) by ACC.sumy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27799 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:11:24 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <37561C88.C0F4823F@sim.net.ua> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:11:20 +0300 From: Pavel Narozhniy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SGI releases source code of OpenVault Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Free downloads of source code of OpenVault here: http://www.sgi.com/software/opensource/openvault/ Does anybody want to port it to FreeBSD? -- Pavel Narozhniy nic-hdl: PN395-RIPE http://www.sumy.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:16: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from manor.msen.com (manor.msen.com [148.59.4.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244D15010 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:15:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wayne@staff.msen.com) Received: from manor.msen.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by manor.msen.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17846 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 02:15:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wayne@manor.msen.com) Message-Id: <199906030615.CAA17846@manor.msen.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Flipping ARP ? From: "Michael R. Wayne" Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 02:15:51 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Running 3.2 RELEASE, I have 2 fxp cards (one on the motherboard) with two different addresses plugged into the same HP 2424M switch (not broken into seperate VLANs yet). About once an hour, fxp0 seems to steal the arp for fxp1 for one second: Jun 3 00:04:16 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 00:04:16 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 00:25:16 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 00:25:16 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 00:46:17 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 00:46:17 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:08:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:08:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:29:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:29:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:50:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:90:27:23:9e:ea is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! Jun 3 01:50:57 sgm1 /kernel: arp: 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 is using my IP address 209.115.93.28! fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 148.59.160.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 148.59.160.255 ether 00:a0:c9:ed:e4:12 media: autoselect (100baseTX ) status: active supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP fxp1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 209.115.93.28 netmask 0xfffffff8 broadcast 209.115.93.31 ether 00:90:27:23:9e:ea media: autoselect (100baseTX ) status: active supported media: autoselect 100baseTX 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP Comments? /\/\ \/\/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:16:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555FE15136 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22015; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:43:41 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:43:40 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Chris Piazza Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Chris Piazza wrote: > Just downloading the XFree86 source right now and I'm going to build it > overnight assuming it works. If not I'm sure it'll be fun (heh) to track > down. Yeah.. Building X is a bit of a dog I've found.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:17:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B2814F30 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA90077; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 02:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 02:17:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Johan Jansson wrote: > > > > NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all > > their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base > > for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: > > > > "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well > > as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." > > > > I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be > > accessed from here: > > > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > > Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A > killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already > in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty > cheap... FreeBSD doesn't write it's own X, we use (most of us, the ones that don't buy their X implementations) from the XFree86 organization. You'll have to go ask them, we're the wrong fellas. www.xfree86.org > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:30:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-48.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69CC14E7A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01884; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On 03-Jun-99 Chris Piazza wrote: > > Just downloading the XFree86 source right now and I'm going to build it > > overnight assuming it works. If not I'm sure it'll be fun (heh) to track > > down. > > Yeah.. Building X is a bit of a dog I've found.. Well if you're interested in binaries the bzip2'd binary of XF86_SVGA seems to be a little over 1 meg. - alex I thought felt your touch In my car, on my clutch But I guess it's just someone who felt a lot like I remember you. - Translator To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:37:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F64E14E7A for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22140; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:03:39 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:03:39 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Alex Zepeda Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > Yeah.. Building X is a bit of a dog I've found.. > Well if you're interested in binaries the bzip2'd binary of XF86_SVGA > seems to be a little over 1 meg. Hmm.. well I wouldn't mind a copy :) Do they work OK? --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:47:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-48.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910F81501D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA04105; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:44:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 03-Jun-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > > Yeah.. Building X is a bit of a dog I've found.. > > Well if you're interested in binaries the bzip2'd binary of XF86_SVGA > > seems to be a little over 1 meg. > > Hmm.. well I wouldn't mind a copy :) > > Do they work OK? It seems to work, but I have no real way of testing any added functionality as I've got a TNT based card (which a stock XFree86 supported already). I've put a copy up at: http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/alex/XF86_SVGA.bz2 - alex who realized firsthand how stupid it is to try and switch to -current remotely How long, how long must we sing this song? - U2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:48:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-48.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4411501D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA04208; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:48:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Do they work OK? MD5 (XF86_SVGA.bz2) = 2502eb1d8b48a052ffe831b147094fbd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1286643 Jun 2 23:27 XF86_SVGA.bz2 - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 2 23:52:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947C81501D for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:52:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22292; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:50 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:21:50 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Alex Zepeda Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > It seems to work, but I have no real way of testing any added > functionality as I've got a TNT based card (which a stock XFree86 > supported already). > > I've put a copy up at: > http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/alex/XF86_SVGA.bz2 Thanks. You could try running the GLX Quake2 renderer :) Of see if its faster in 2D etc since some acceleration has been added (stipple fill at least) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 0:16:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA12214BEF for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem25.masternet.it [194.184.65.35]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA19048 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:16:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990603090825.01d39e30@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:13:56 +0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: RE: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03/06/99, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > >On 03-Jun-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: >> It seems to work, but I have no real way of testing any added >> functionality as I've got a TNT based card (which a stock XFree86 >> supported already). >> >> I've put a copy up at: >> http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/alex/XF86_SVGA.bz2 > >Thanks. > >You could try running the GLX Quake2 renderer :) > >Of see if its faster in 2D etc since some acceleration has been added (stipple >fill at least) I have here a Creative Graphics Blaster TNT and a Diamond Viper 331 (agp, riva 128, 4mb). I'll try on both of them ... I can also make some benchmarks because I own also Xaccel 5.0, but it doesn't support them yet, and Metrolink server which instead support them. Which proggie is the best to bench ? I have used only xengine until today, but I think we can find something more verbose... I'll give them a look in the week-end. Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 0:30:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6D014BEF for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA09215; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:29:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990603172927.E8364@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:29:27 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Chuck Robey , Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] References: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 02:17:43AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 02:17:43AM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: >On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > >> Johan Jansson wrote: >> > >> > NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all >> > their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base >> > for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: >> > >> > "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well >> > as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." >> > >> > I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be >> > accessed from here: >> > >> > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers >> >> Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A >> killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already >> in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty >> cheap... > >FreeBSD doesn't write it's own X, we use (most of us, the ones that >don't buy their X implementations) from the XFree86 organization. >You'll have to go ask them, we're the wrong fellas. > >www.xfree86.org NVIDIA already does the RIVA/TNT drivers for XFree86, and I expect the 3D bits to be folded in when the direct rendering work that Precision Insight is doing is ready. XFree86 3.3.4 (due out later this month) will include an updated version of NVIDIA's 2D driver. There's a little bit of information about 3.3.4 at http://www.xfree86.org/releaseplans.html. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 1: 9:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E10014D72 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au) Received: (qmail 19336 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Jun 1999 05:42:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990603054234.19335.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:42:34 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Wes Peters Cc: David Scheidt , Darryl Okahata , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script: References: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com> In-reply-to: <3754898D.D2C7E08D@softweyr.com> of Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:31:57 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters writes: > And, as far as *word processors* go, troff, nroff, and ed pretty > much suck. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree they are useful > tools, as borne out by the number of books that have been typeset > over the years using troff. But a word processor they DO NOT make. Clearly you have not read that remarkable book "Word Processing on the UNIX System" by Morris Kreiger (McGraw-Hill, 1985), which says in the introductory note to the reader: "This is a book for beginners -- beginners to computers, to word processing, to UNIX." Although the larger part of the book covers {n,t}roff and friends, there is of course a significant section on text editors, where Krieger explains why ed is a far better tool for real writers than full screen editors such as vi -- and he only covers ed in the book. I first came across this wondrous work when consulting for a client who had asked his previous consultant to "include word processing" as part of a business system he was setting up. That consultant felt he had done his job, as recently as 1986, by providing a SysVr2 Unix box with {n,t}roff and ed, a dot-matrix printer, and that book. For some reason, that company was still using typewriters to do their "word processing" when I came on the scene. I stole the book in case anybody was tempted to go back to it for guidance, and have provided them with a solution they find easy to use and which allows them to be productive. That's not to say that I think ed and troff are not useful. I use ed every day, often for substantial documents. I use troff less often, but certainly every week. > > One of the machines I run -CURRENT on is a 4 > > year-old Pentium. Other than build times being longer than I would > > like, I don't have noticable performance issues. The same machine > > is essentially unable to run NT, and do work at the same time. > > But as a word processor, is it really any better than MacWrite on an > original Mac 128K? Or, to stack the deck a little more, a Mac Plus? > *I* don't think so. That was a system well suited to word processing, > except the tiny screen. Nothing since then has advanced the state of > the art in word processing, only in being able to do other things with > your word processor. All my Unix machines are excellent for my word processing needs. For one thing, any document that I wrote 20 years ago on a Unix box can be trivially printed today on any other Unix box. This is not likely to change. And it is not likely to be true of many other so-called word processing systems. More importantly, they also serve quite nicely as development machines for all the software that I write. It seems to me to be eminently sensible to have computers that can do more than one thing, and do those things well. Unix on the desktop serves not only me and my clients but also my wife and my children for all their needs. And it never crashes and nor do any of the applications they use. This is a pretty good arrangement. -- Greg Black -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 1:21:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129E214C38 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:21:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qsp0c.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.100.12]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA19663; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37563B1A.9438F0F8@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 01:21:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a Diamond Viper V770 (TNT2) and the patches appears to work 8) It was not hard to build cd /usr/ports/x11/XFree86 make mid way of building the X makefiles I paused the build and apply the NVidia's patches which are only for the nvidia software modules. continue the build. Copy XF86_SVGA to my /usr/X11R6/bin and presto I now have X back again... Will try later on to run xbench to see how fast is this card. my system is a Pentium III 450 Mhz with 128mb of SDRAM and obscene amount of memory compare to what I used to have to develop X Servers with (8MB of memory) back in the 386bsd days. With a resonable fast system X takes about 35 or 40minutes to build very reasonable in my opinion . Enjoy, Amancio Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On 03-Jun-99 Wes Peters wrote: > > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > > > > Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A > > killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already > > in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty > > cheap... > > Well the patches are there :) > > I suppose it would work OK, but no TNT to test with either. > > My friend is getting an Asus TNT2 soon, so I will try it and see :) > > --- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 1:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD78A14DD0 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22816; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:54:44 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37563B1A.9438F0F8@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:54:43 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Amancio Hasty wrote: > Will try later on to run xbench to see how fast is this card. my system > is a Pentium III 450 Mhz with 128mb of SDRAM and obscene amount > of memory compare to what I used to have to develop X Servers with > (8MB of memory) back in the 386bsd days. Some info on how well the 3D works would be nice. Do you have an GLX apps? > With a resonable fast system X takes about 35 or 40minutes to build > very reasonable in my opinion . I suppose.. I just look at it compiling and wonder what the hell its up to :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 1:50:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834DE150D3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA15455; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:48:51 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:48:51 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Pavel Narozhniy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SGI releases source code of OpenVault In-Reply-To: <37561C88.C0F4823F@sim.net.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Pavel Narozhniy wrote: > Hello > Free downloads of source code of OpenVault here: > http://www.sgi.com/software/opensource/openvault/ > > Does anybody want to port it to FreeBSD? > > -- > Pavel Narozhniy > nic-hdl: PN395-RIPE > http://www.sumy.net > I guess there might be those who want to port it. But it's complex and most people don't have tape libraries. Depending on the fate of OpenVault and it's spread, it may well be beneficial to have OpenVault included in the FreeBSD base after some time. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 2:13:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412E4151DD for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 02:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA62510; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:59:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:59:02 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-Reply-To: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Johan Jansson wrote: > > > > NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all > > their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base > > for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: > > > > "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well > > as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." > > > > I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be > > accessed from here: > > > > http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > > Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A > killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already > in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty > cheap... From the looks of it, all the source is available and you should be able to just build it and have it work. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 4:36:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC51914C20 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ljod.ifi.uio.no (2602@ljod.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.191]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA05681 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from des@localhost) by ljod.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:36:14 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) Quantum Fireball ST. Trying to newfs a 9 GB file system on the IBM, newfs got wedged in physst. At that point I had to reset (since I ran newfs on the serial console in single-user mode, and could neither interrupt nor background it, I had no shell). Upon reboot, fsck -p produced a shitload of busy_count < 0 messages. (newfs still gets wedged, btw) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 4:43:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964F814FFE for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ljod.ifi.uio.no (2602@ljod.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.191]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA06681; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:43:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from des@localhost) by ljod.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:43:42 +0200 (MET DST) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:43:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "03 Jun 1999 13:36:14 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing > after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) > Quantum Fireball ST. Following up on myself, the box just panicked (softdep_write_complete: lock held). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 4:51:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F106714FFE for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ljod.ifi.uio.no (2602@ljod.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.191]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA07911; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:51:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from des@localhost) by ljod.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:51:35 +0200 (MET DST) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:51:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "03 Jun 1999 13:43:42 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing > > after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) > > Quantum Fireball ST. > Following up on myself, the box just panicked (softdep_write_complete: > lock held). Following up on myself again, a May 4 kernel (with the exact same configuration) works fine and dandy. The problems only show up with a June 3 kernel. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 4:53:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C6B14FFE for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ljod.ifi.uio.no (2602@ljod.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.191]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA08253; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:53:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from des@localhost) by ljod.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:53:37 +0200 (MET DST) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jun 1999 13:53:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "03 Jun 1999 13:51:34 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing > > > after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) > > > Quantum Fireball ST. > > Following up on myself, the box just panicked (softdep_write_complete: > > lock held). > Following up on myself again, a May 4 kernel (with the exact same > configuration) works fine and dandy. The problems only show up with a > June 3 kernel. Argh! I forgot to mention - this is a RELENG_3 box. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 5:30: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B096014D86 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ljod.ifi.uio.no (2602@ljod.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.191]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA13791; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:29:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from des@localhost) by ljod.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:29:48 +0200 (MET DST) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jun 1999 14:29:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "03 Jun 1999 13:53:36 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > > I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing > > > > after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) > > > > Quantum Fireball ST. > > > Following up on myself, the box just panicked (softdep_write_complete: > > > lock held). > > Following up on myself again, a May 4 kernel (with the exact same > > configuration) works fine and dandy. The problems only show up with a > > June 3 kernel. > Argh! I forgot to mention - this is a RELENG_3 box. I hang my head in shame; the June 3 kernel was compiled from the wrong config file. All's well :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 5:32:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (freebsd.dk [212.242.42.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CDC14FD1 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA48476; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:32:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Soren Schmidt Message-Id: <199906031232.OAA48476@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: devstat_end_transaction: HELP!! busy_count for wd0 < 0 (-1) In-Reply-To: from Dag-Erling Smorgrav at "Jun 3, 1999 2:29:47 pm" To: des@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:32:52 +0200 (CEST) Cc: des@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > > > I'm getting tons of these in an IDE-only box. They started appearing > > > > > after I put in an IBM DTTA371010 to replace the old (and dying) > > > > > Quantum Fireball ST. > > > > Following up on myself, the box just panicked (softdep_write_complete: > > > > lock held). > > > Following up on myself again, a May 4 kernel (with the exact same > > > configuration) works fine and dandy. The problems only show up with a > > > June 3 kernel. > > Argh! I forgot to mention - this is a RELENG_3 box. > > I hang my head in shame; the June 3 kernel was compiled from the wrong > config file. All's well :) OK, just admit that you like talking to yourself :) Thats mostly harmless, but when you start hearing answering voices you should seek professional help, fast :) -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 5:51:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D887E151C9 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:51:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18376; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:51:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03810; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA28209; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199906031251.FAA28209@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:51:26 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David E. Cross" "3.2-STABLE, 11th panic" (Jun 2, 11:40am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-STABLE, 11th panic Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 2, 11:40am, "David E. Cross" wrote: } Subject: 3.2-STABLE, 11th panic } Here is a backtrace from our latest. Does anyone have any ideas to try. Is } there any way to loock at who has the other lock on the file? (Yes, I know } it is the kernel who has it, but it is requested on behalf of a NFSd, no?) There isn't any easy way I know of to debug this. From the symptoms, it sounds like nfsd sometimes forgets to release the lock and sometime later tries to lock the same vnode. The only way I can think to debug this is to hack together something like DEBUG_LOCKS that stashes information about vget's caller in the lock structure. You'll have to hack vget() to take the extra arguments and pass them to debug_vn_lock() which needs to store them in the lock structure. When the panic occurs, use gdb to print out *lkp in debuglockmgr(), which will tell you where the vnode was previously locked. Then you'll have to search forward from that point in the code to find where it forgets to unlock the vnode. The ugly part is that vget() is called all over the place, and you'll have to arrange for the extra parameters to be passed to all these calls, though I think it should be possible to do this with a macro. Hopefully the information you get from this will be enough and you won't need to find the caller of the caller of vget() ... } (kgdb) bt } #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 } #1 0xc014baa4 in at_shutdown ( } function=0xc02354bb <__set_sysuninit_set_sym_M_KTRACE_uninit_sys_uninit+179>, arg=0xc74e9080, queue=65538) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:446 } #2 0xc0147794 in debuglockmgr (lkp=0xc1528400, flags=16842754, } interlkp=0xc74e90f0, p=0xc743eb20, name=0xc0237d57 "vop_stdlock", } file=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) } at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:326 } #3 0xc016d6c1 in vop_stdlock (ap=0xc7482a5c) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:211 } #4 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482a5c) } at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 } #5 0xc0176635 in debug_vn_lock (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=65538, p=0xc743eb20, } filename=0xc023804b "../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line=1274) at vnode_if.h:811 } #6 0xc01700d1 in vget (vp=0xc74e9080, flags=2, p=0xc743eb20) } at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:1274 } #7 0xc016c1b3 in vfs_cache_lookup (ap=0xc7482b24) } at ../../kern/vfs_cache.c:439 } #8 0xc01e5bfd in ufs_vnoperate (ap=0xc7482b24) } at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2299 } #9 0xc016e7c1 in lookup (ndp=0xc7482d94) at vnode_if.h:31 } #10 0xc01b8260 in nfs_namei (ndp=0xc7482d94, fhp=0xc7482d0c, len=3, } slp=0xc0f7e400, nam=0xc0f541a0, mdp=0xc7482c48, dposp=0xc7482c44, } retdirp=0xc7482c2c, p=0xc743eb20, kerbflag=0, pubflag=0) } at ../../nfs/nfs_subs.c:1642 } #11 0xc01a123f in nfsrv_lookup (nfsd=0xc13d3400, slp=0xc0f7e400, } procp=0xc743eb20, mrq=0xc7482e34) at ../../nfs/nfs_serv.c:396 } #12 0xc01b9cba in nfssvc_nfsd (nsd=0xc7482e94, argp=0x8071af4 "", p=0xc743eb20) } at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:656 } #13 0xc01b95d5 in nfssvc (p=0xc743eb20, uap=0xc7482f94) } at ../../nfs/nfs_syscalls.c:342 } #14 0xc020d02f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 8, } tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077944892, tf_isp = -951570460, tf_ebx = 0, } tf_edx = -1077945288, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 155, tf_trapno = 12, } tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134518940, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, } tf_esp = -1077945280, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:1100 } #15 0xc0203e5c in Xint0x80_syscall () } #16 0x80480e9 in ?? () To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 7:51:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sol (cs1-gw.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.171.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 989F1153A5 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 07:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (zzhang@localhost) by sol (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA28604 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:40:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang Reply-To: Zhihui Zhang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: The choice of MAXPHYS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The value of MAXPHYS is chosen to be 64K for the maximum raw I/O transfer size. I am wondering why it is not set larger. The maxcontig value of FFS is default to be 16, which means 16*8192 or 128K bytes (twice as big as 64K) . If we raise the value of MAXPHYS, we can put more data blocks of a big file contiguously on the disk (perhaps even more than 16 blocks to achieve better performance). Am I right? Is there any limit of the value of MAXPHYS? Any help is appreciated. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 8:28:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A938C14D1F for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id RAA17201 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:28:46 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma017197; Thu, 3 Jun 99 17:28:46 +0200 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id RAA23017 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:28:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 21398 invoked by uid 666); 3 Jun 1999 15:29:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:29:07 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: Zhihui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS Message-ID: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Zhihui Zhang on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:40:10AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:40:10AM -0400, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > The value of MAXPHYS is chosen to be 64K for the maximum raw I/O transfer > size. I am wondering why it is not set larger. Just a guess: maybe this has something to do with DMA address counters on ISA cards being 16 bit? (ducks) Or is this total nonsense? :-) -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 9: 6: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8058E14FF8 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id KAA93292; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199906031605.KAA93292@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS In-Reply-To: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> from Jos Backus at "Jun 3, 1999 05:29:07 pm" To: Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com (Jos Backus) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Cc: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jos Backus wrote... > On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:40:10AM -0400, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > The value of MAXPHYS is chosen to be 64K for the maximum raw I/O transfer > > size. I am wondering why it is not set larger. > > Just a guess: maybe this has something to do with DMA address counters on ISA > cards being 16 bit? (ducks) Or is this total nonsense? :-) Actually, MAXPHYS is 128K, not 64K. This is from sys/i386/include/param.h: #define DFLTPHYS (64 * 1024) /* default max raw I/O transfer size */ #define MAXPHYS (128 * 1024) /* max raw I/O transfer size */ MAXPHYS was 64K for a good while, and then John Dyson changed it to 128K in revision 1.42 of param.h (early '98). I think the 64K value may have been chosen because cards like the Adaptec 1542 can't handle more than that. That's the reason the CAM passthrough driver won't allow transfers larger than 64K in most cases. We plan on implementing a facility at some point that will allow userland applications to ask what the maximum transfer size is for a given path. At some point we should implement some sort of buffer chaining mechanism or something else that would allow larger I/O sizes for devices that support it. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 9:11:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D4014FF8 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00919 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906031611.MAA00919@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:07:49 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: 3.2 bug/problem? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In v3.2 (and not in 3.1 or before) when we bring down a PTP interface (with if_down(ifp)) we get a console messages SIOCGIFADDR: Can't assign requested Address What might this be? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 9:14:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7561C15415 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id SAA11815 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:14:07 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma011810; Thu, 3 Jun 99 18:14:07 +0200 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id SAA17754 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:14:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 29141 invoked by uid 666); 3 Jun 1999 16:14:28 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:14:28 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS Message-ID: <19990603181428.A23846@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> <199906031605.KAA93292@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199906031605.KAA93292@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:05:46AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:05:46AM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > I think the 64K value may have been chosen because cards like the Adaptec > 1542 can't handle more than that. That's exactly the card I was thinking about (I used to own one). So I was close :) -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 10:35:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E535C15936 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (crossd@momentum.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.11]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA37037; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:35:19 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Our home directory NFS server went down again today, "same bat-panic". This time it went down on ".Maillock" (usually it goes down on a netscape cache file or .Xauthorit-c. Piecing some more together I modified my old "crash_patoot.c" file (which didn't cause any problems), to the new and improved version that does. This is our environment: FreeBSD NFS server running 3.2-STABLE from 1.5 to 2 weeks ago. Multiple client machines of multiple architectures (Solaris 2.6, Irix 6.5.2+, FreeBSB 3.2+). These crashes were all reproduced with a Solaris client, I do not know if it is reproduceable with other clients. Below is the short code segment that will cause the crash, the additions I added to it to cause the crash were rename(2) and unlink(2), without those I could not get a crash. Also, available upon request is a packet dump of all traffic to/from that machine leading to the crash (it is only 198336 bytes long, it was captured with '-s 1500' with tcpdump). Without further ado crash_patoot.c: int main(int argc, char **argv) { int fd; int counter; char newfilename[1024]; strcpy(newfilename,argv[1]); strcat(newfilename,".old"); for(counter=0;counter<1000000;counter++) { fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); write(fd, &counter,4); rename(argv[1], newfilename); close(fd); rename(newfilename, argv[1]); fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); unlink(newfilename); close(fd); fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); close(fd); unlink(newfilename); } return 0; } If you are able to reproduce this panic please let me know. I want to be assured I am not going out of my mind. I am attempting to dig through the NFS code to try to find the bug myself, but it is a daunting task. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 10:42:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhole.iceworld.org (blackhole.iceworld.org [204.246.64.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC7415580 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from griffin@blackhole.iceworld.org) Received: from vortex (vortex.iceworld.org [192.168.0.100]) by blackhole.iceworld.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA03962; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:42:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from griffin@blackhole.iceworld.org) Message-ID: <199906031242430200.0D4A7C54@192.168.0.99> In-Reply-To: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> References: <375615C9.CE0C2768@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (3) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:42:43 -0500 From: "Jimbo Bahooli" To: "Wes Peters" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6/2/99 at 11:42 PM Wes Peters wrote: >Johan Jansson wrote: >> >> NVIDIA has released OpenGL drivers for Linux/X, with source, for all >> their chipsets. It also seems they intend these to be used as a base >> for other platforms as well (BeOS for example). Here is from the faq: >> >> "This distribution is meant to tide-us-over until that time, as well >> as provide source for other platforms that want RIVA support." >> >> I think this is extremely good news. The drivers and faq can be >> accessed from here: >> >> http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Products/Pages.nsf/pages/NVIDIA_Drivers > >Does anyone know how/if/when this will bleed over to FreeBSD? A >killer cheap OpenGL box might be kinda fun to have, and I'm already >in the market for another desktop. TNT cards have gotten pretty >cheap... > >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC They provide the diffs to both Xfree, and Mesa, so with some luck you should just be able to patch them up and compile them on FreeBSD. Jimbo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 11: 3:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB36314D16 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (crossd@momentum.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.11]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA37531; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906031803.OAA37531@cs.rpi.edu> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: Message from "David E. Cross" of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:35:19 EDT." <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:03:35 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just need to make a small amendment to the instructions for the previous prgram. I am unable to cause a panic by running it on just one machine, I need to have it run on 2 machines accessing the same file. client1% ./crash_patoot cp1 client2% ./crash_patoot cp1 -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 11: 6:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.volvo.se (gate.volvo.se [192.138.110.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FEE14C1F for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from v072827@d4268.it.volvo.se) Received: by gate.volvo.se; id UAA19941; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:06:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from smtpbb1.volvo.se(131.97.125.124) by gate.volvo.se via smap (4.1) id xma019668; Thu, 3 Jun 99 20:05:25 +0200 Received: from d4268.it.volvo.se (d4268.it.volvo.se [131.97.112.65]) by vg170.it.volvo.se (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10227 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:05:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from v072827@localhost) by d4268.it.volvo.se (8.9.2/8.8.8) id UAA17874; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:05:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from v072827) From: Olof Samuelsson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:05:25 +0200 (CEST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <119375145@toto.iv> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14166.49691.527363.877895@localhost.it.volvo.se> X-Attribution: Olof Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Wes" == Wes Peters writes: Wes> If you mean "lack of competition would make UNIX more homogenous and Wes> more viable to every Tom, Dick, and Jane that comes down the pike," Wes> I will agree with that. I just disagree that this is success. UNIX Wes> was never meant to be a word processor loader, and complete overkill Wes> for such an application. Hmm? I thought the AT&T used some early Unix (version 5-7, maybe??) for document writing using ed and roff. If I'm remember it right, it was very appreciated. Never mind, in those days my word processing was probably limited to "Ga Ga" :-) Regards, Olof Samuelsson -- I'm making a fool of myself, no one else. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 11:42:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DA515571 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id TAA20519; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:52:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00693; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:34:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906031734.TAA00693@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS In-Reply-To: from Zhihui Zhang at "Jun 3, 1999 10:40:10 am" To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:34:43 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Zhihui Zhang wrote ... > > The value of MAXPHYS is chosen to be 64K for the maximum raw I/O transfer > size. I am wondering why it is not set larger. The maxcontig value of FFS > is default to be 16, which means 16*8192 or 128K bytes (twice as big as > 64K) . If we raise the value of MAXPHYS, we can put more data blocks of a > big file contiguously on the disk (perhaps even more than 16 blocks to > achieve better performance). Am I right? Is there any limit of the value > of MAXPHYS? The 64kB limit is a limitation of older SCSI cards. My primary objective to have a > 64kB MAXPHYS is to have larger blocksizes on tape. Especially DLT drives love that ;-) | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 11:43:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706DC159B5 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id TAA20518; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:52:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00686; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:30:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906031730.TAA00686@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS In-Reply-To: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> from Jos Backus at "Jun 3, 1999 5:29: 7 pm" To: Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:30:20 +0200 (CEST) Cc: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Jos Backus wrote ... > On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 10:40:10AM -0400, Zhihui Zhang wrote: > > The value of MAXPHYS is chosen to be 64K for the maximum raw I/O transfer > > size. I am wondering why it is not set larger. > > Just a guess: maybe this has something to do with DMA address counters on ISA > cards being 16 bit? (ducks) Or is this total nonsense? :-) 20 bits. But older cards can do no more than 64 kB. What would be nice to have is some kind of interface so that the card driver can tell the higher layers what it's capabilities are in this respect. | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:27:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peewee.cdrom.com (mg130-099.ricochet.net [204.179.130.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D8814F8F; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:25:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) Received: from peewee (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peewee.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10792; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 03:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Jordan Hubbard , David Scheidt , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:35:28 +0200." <19990602173528.B70808@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 03:49:49 -0700 Message-ID: <10787.928406989@peewee> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > of useless. It's like doing uphill testing of a fat guy on a bicycle > against a Lamborghini - you "know" the result beforehand. Unfortunately, what you're probably not aware of is that the fat guy also has a JATO unit strapped to the back of his bicycle. Don't make assumptions. :-) > If extraction of the ports collection (not files in general, just the > ports collection) is slower using soft updates than using "async" > mode, then it seems some elevator sorting isn't working the way it Extraction of ALL the distribution bits is faster with async than it is with soft updates. To put it another, more practical, way - if you timed the installation with a stopwatch, with or without ports, the async policy would win and Kirk has even pointed that out in other emails. Given that, I have to honestly wonder why you've been arguing so strongly for soft updates being used in the installation. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:31:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peewee.cdrom.com (mg130-099.ricochet.net [204.179.130.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C7A14FB2 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) Received: from peewee (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peewee.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10715; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 03:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@peewee.cdrom.com) To: Mark Murray Cc: hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:58:27 +0200." <199906020758.JAA18452@greenpeace.grondar.za> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 03:10:51 -0700 Message-ID: <10710.928404651@peewee> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The patches applied almost cleanly to 4-CURRENT. Fixing the glitches was > easy. The PCCARD file was out of date with respect to CURRENT, so I > re-engineered it. Great, thanks for doing this. I just talked to Tatsumi-san yesterday about this work and would be very happy to see it go in if you'd care to do the honors, given that you've already patched it into shape. JFYI, during our conversation, we identified the following areas in which we'd like to work together in enhancing sysinstall: 1. Put pccardd on the mfsroot floppy and add a few things to sysinstall (this may already be done by his patches, I haven't had time to check) which enable its use during installation. 2. Bring in message catalog and BIG5 support so that the standard installer supports English, Japanese, Korean and Chinese by default. 3. Figure out why I couldn't get the isc-dhcp client to work before 3.2's release (causing me to abandon the idea of adding this feature for 3.2) and get DHCP support into 3.3. I look forward to working with Tatsumi-san on these features; they're all long overdue! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:38:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B27615989 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:38:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA99463; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm not surprised. I think this is similar to the other known NFS panics. I haven't had a chance to reproduce it yet ( may not be able to until after USENIX ). I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do need my commit privs back. If people want these things fixed, complain to core. I have the time to fix the bugs with commit privs, but I just don't have the time or inclination to fix them without. It is just too much stress keeping a patch that should be committed in a day or two on the table for two weeks and then have to beg people to deal with it. I am getting wholely sick and tired of it, and I have better things to do then try to maintain a pipeline of fixes that constantly get stopped up. I *want* to fix these and other bugs, but I am effectively being prevented from doing so because some core members freak out over the speed at which I program and the amount of rewriting I sometimes do. I will point out that all the rewriting I've done so far has been to the ultimate benefit of the project in hind sight, resulting in better commented, cleaner, and more reliable code and catching more bugs. -Matt Matthew Dillon :Our home directory NFS server went down again today, "same bat-panic". :This time it went down on ".Maillock" (usually it goes down on a netscape :cache file or .Xauthorit-c. Piecing some more together I modified my old :"crash_patoot.c" file (which didn't cause any problems), to the new and :improved version that does. : :This is our environment: :FreeBSD NFS server running 3.2-STABLE from 1.5 to 2 weeks ago. Multiple :client machines of multiple architectures (Solaris 2.6, Irix 6.5.2+, FreeBSB :3.2+). These crashes were all reproduced with a Solaris client, I do not know :if it is reproduceable with other clients. Below is the short code segment :that will cause the crash, the additions I added to it to cause the crash :were rename(2) and unlink(2), without those I could not get a crash. : :Also, available upon request is a packet dump of all traffic to/from that :machine leading to the crash (it is only 198336 bytes long, it was :captured with '-s 1500' with tcpdump). : :Without further ado crash_patoot.c: :int main(int argc, char **argv) :{ : int fd; : int counter; : char newfilename[1024]; : : strcpy(newfilename,argv[1]); : strcat(newfilename,".old"); : for(counter=0;counter<1000000;counter++) { : fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); : write(fd, &counter,4); : rename(argv[1], newfilename); : close(fd); : rename(newfilename, argv[1]); : fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); : unlink(newfilename); : close(fd); : fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); : close(fd); : unlink(newfilename); : } : return 0; :} : :If you are able to reproduce this panic please let me know. I want to be :assured I am not going out of my mind. I am attempting to dig through the NFS :code to try to find the bug myself, but it is a daunting task. : :-- :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu :Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd :Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 :Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 :I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:52: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B28A159A0 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qso9g.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.97.48]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27312; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3756DD11.3F943D5F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:52:49 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Silly me , I was wondering what happen to you . I vote that your commit priviliges should not be taken away by the "Dark Side" of core and should be re-instated. Also wondering if this is perhaps a good time to split up FreeBSD along commercial / professional lines -- we can leave the silly core group along and proceed forward with a business model. Cheers, Amancio Matthew Dillon wrote: > I'm not surprised. I think this is similar to the other known NFS panics. > I haven't had a chance to reproduce it yet ( may not be able to until > after USENIX ). > > I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do need > my commit privs back. If people want these things fixed, complain to core. > I have the time to fix the bugs with commit privs, but I just don't have > the time or inclination to fix them without. It is just too much stress > keeping a patch that should be committed in a day or two on the table for > two weeks and then have to beg people to deal with it. I am getting > wholely sick and tired of it, and I have better things to do then try > to maintain a pipeline of fixes that constantly get stopped up. I *want* > to fix these and other bugs, but I am effectively being prevented from > doing so because some core members freak out over the speed at which I > program and the amount of rewriting I sometimes do. I will point out that > all the rewriting I've done so far has been to the ultimate benefit of > the project in hind sight, resulting in better commented, cleaner, > and more reliable code and catching more bugs. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > :Our home directory NFS server went down again today, "same bat-panic". > :This time it went down on ".Maillock" (usually it goes down on a netscape > :cache file or .Xauthorit-c. Piecing some more together I modified my old > :"crash_patoot.c" file (which didn't cause any problems), to the new and > :improved version that does. > : > :This is our environment: > :FreeBSD NFS server running 3.2-STABLE from 1.5 to 2 weeks ago. Multiple > :client machines of multiple architectures (Solaris 2.6, Irix 6.5.2+, FreeBSB > :3.2+). These crashes were all reproduced with a Solaris client, I do not know > :if it is reproduceable with other clients. Below is the short code segment > :that will cause the crash, the additions I added to it to cause the crash > :were rename(2) and unlink(2), without those I could not get a crash. > : > :Also, available upon request is a packet dump of all traffic to/from that > :machine leading to the crash (it is only 198336 bytes long, it was > :captured with '-s 1500' with tcpdump). > : > :Without further ado crash_patoot.c: > :int main(int argc, char **argv) > :{ > : int fd; > : int counter; > : char newfilename[1024]; > : > : strcpy(newfilename,argv[1]); > : strcat(newfilename,".old"); > : for(counter=0;counter<1000000;counter++) { > : fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); > : write(fd, &counter,4); > : rename(argv[1], newfilename); > : close(fd); > : rename(newfilename, argv[1]); > : fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); > : unlink(newfilename); > : close(fd); > : fd=open(newfilename, O_CREAT,600); > : close(fd); > : unlink(newfilename); > : } > : return 0; > :} > : > :If you are able to reproduce this panic please let me know. I want to be > :assured I am not going out of my mind. I am attempting to dig through the NFS > :code to try to find the bug myself, but it is a daunting task. > : > :-- > :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu > :Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd > :Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 > :Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 > :I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD > : > : > :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > : > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:54:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9667F159A9 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA86949; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3756DD66.59E2B600@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:54:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do need > my commit privs back. here here > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 12:55:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0048159A9 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA99584; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906031955.MAA99584@apollo.backplane.com> To: Amancio Hasty Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> <3756DD11.3F943D5F@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Silly me , I was wondering what happen to you . I vote that your commit :priviliges should not be taken away by the "Dark Side" of core and :should be re-instated. : :Also wondering if this is perhaps a good time to split up FreeBSD :along commercial / professional lines -- we can leave the silly :core group along and proceed forward with a business model. : : Cheers, : Amancio : No, FreeBSD should not be split up. The current organization has all the right stuff, but certain issues that should have begun to get addressed years ago were left to rot. All that is needed is a reality check. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13: 3:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7E71599E for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:03:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13176 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:04:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems From: "Mark J. Taylor" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: expr pitfall (FYI) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I found an ugly today. Nothing to do with FreeBSD, directly, just one of those pitfalls that you run into that is juicy: expr '1' : '\(.*\)' returns "1", exit status of "0" expr '0' : '\(.*\)' returns "0", exit status of "1" expr 0 + 0 returns "0", exit status of "1" Why is this an error condition (I had this in a Makefile)? The pattern did match, and the addition did succeed, but the resulting string happened to be the string "0". Well, as the man page expr(1) does indicate that if the expression is an empty string or 0, a "1" is the exit code. Nobody said I have to like it. :) I've never been aware of this behavior of expr. I thought that I'd let you in on this little "problem" before, someday, you may run into it as well. Don't go around using expr to match the string "0", or to add numbers that sum up to 0. :) -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer mtaylor@cybernet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13: 8:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B5B1599E for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qso9g.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.97.48]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18304; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3756E0FA.67F0D88F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:09:30 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> <3756DD11.3F943D5F@mindspring.com> <199906031955.MAA99584@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I really have gone over and over the issue of the "Dark Side " of core not just with myself but with other hackers and I am afraid that there is no easy solution on sight aside from having a commercial entity where individuals are held accountable and when they step way out of line they can be fire. Perhaps you are correct and this is the best organizational model that we can have and we just have to accept it and live with it. BTW: The linux camp is in a similar situation -- had a chat with VA Research where I pointed out a simple behavior problem with Linux : I do an ftp download in a linux box and periodically I see a slight pause -- VA research snap back saying that the problem was due to the VM / Scheduler and that they couldn't fix it because Linus held tight control over that section of the kernel. I would like to know who took your commit priviliges away. Amancio Matthew Dillon wrote: > : > :Silly me , I was wondering what happen to you . I vote that your commit > :priviliges should not be taken away by the "Dark Side" of core and > :should be re-instated. > : > :Also wondering if this is perhaps a good time to split up FreeBSD > :along commercial / professional lines -- we can leave the silly > :core group along and proceed forward with a business model. > : > : Cheers, > : Amancio > : > > No, FreeBSD should not be split up. The current organization has all > the right stuff, but certain issues that should have begun to get > addressed years ago were left to rot. All that is needed is a reality > check. > > -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13:21:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (unknown [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F320159D2 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10421; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA23554; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:21:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:21:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199906032021.OAA23554@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Some history: I'm not a core member (I gave that up responsibility years ago), but I was one of the three weirdo's that started up FreeBSD back when I had no life. My opinions are my own, and don't reflect the core team. I don't know the exact reasons why the core team removed Matt's commit priv's, but I can make some good guesses. Regardless, I felt this posting needed to be sent, especially since many folks in the 'peanut gallery' such as myself have followed up with their opinions. For what it's worth, I often-times I often reflect the same kind of development style I'm seeing in Matt, so take it for what it's worth. (The things that most annoy you are often the same as your own behavior.) ] Matthew Dillon writes: > I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do > need my commit privs back. If people want these things fixed, > complain to core. I have the time to fix the bugs with commit > privs, but I just don't have the time or inclination to fix them > without. What's wrong with the current 'review' scheme? > It is just too much stress > keeping a patch that should be committed in a day or two on the table for > two weeks and then have to beg people to deal with it. Umm, all patches should be reviewed by someone even if you have commit privileges. Getting commit privileges won't speed up your commits anymore than they do today, since reviews should still be occurring. > I am getting > wholely sick and tired of it, and I have better things to do then try > to maintain a pipeline of fixes that constantly get stopped up. See above. > I *want* to fix these and other bugs, but I am effectively being > prevented from doing so because some core members freak out over > the speed at which I program and the amount of rewriting I > sometimes do. The problem I had with you was your inability to work with others, and your constant riding roughshod over other people's work and code w/out fulling understanding (or caring to understand) the reasons for the design decisions. You were attempting to make 'FreeBSD' into 'MattBSD' from my point of view. Case in point, John Dyson's comments explanation to the mailing list for many of his design decisions explained to even an uninformed person like me that some of the changes you've made were penalizing FreeBSD, not helping it in some cases. > I will point out that all the rewriting I've done so far has been ^^^ I'd call it 'much', since 'some' if it was wrong and hid existing bugs and/or introduced instabilities. Some bugs are to be expected, but IMO some of the 'cleanups' were ill-conceived and have done very little to add stability or reliability to the system. (In particular, some of the casting bugs were downright wrong, and Bruce went through and cleaned up a number of them after the fact.) > to the ultimate benefit of the project in hind sight, resulting in > better commented, cleaner, and more reliable code and catching > more bugs. 'Most' of what you have done is good stuff, but unfortunately from my point of view, you aren unable to accept the fact that 'some' of what you are doing is not helpful and/or wanted, and it's an all-or-nothing situation. This is not conducive to a group project, nor to the long term success of FreeBSD. Yes, NFS is *MUCH* better than it was before. Yes, many bugs have been fixed. But, in the process of this you made alot of people angry due to your behavior and unflexible development style. While this might be acceptable if you have no peers, in a group of peers this doesn't work. No-one likes a lone-ranger who no-one else can work with, and that is the kind of impression that your behavior left in my mind. And, this isn't the kind of behavior that will benefit FreeBSD IMO. Again, these are my *opinions*, based on my observations that took place during his 'commit' status. I have a personal desire to see FreeBSD succeed I consider it partly 'my baby' given my long history with it. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13:33:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843A7159DD for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01227; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199906032030.NAA01227@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams Cc: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:21:09 MDT." <199906032021.OAA23554@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:30:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do > > need my commit privs back. If people want these things fixed, > > complain to core. I have the time to fix the bugs with commit > > privs, but I just don't have the time or inclination to fix them > > without. > > What's wrong with the current 'review' scheme? The review-and-commit process is too slow. That much was clear from reading the original post. > The problem I had with you was your inability to work with others, and > your constant riding roughshod over other people's work and code w/out > fulling understanding (or caring to understand) the reasons for the > design decisions. You were attempting to make 'FreeBSD' into > 'MattBSD' from my point of view. > > Case in point, John Dyson's comments explanation to the mailing list for > many of his design decisions explained to even an uninformed person like > me that some of the changes you've made were penalizing FreeBSD, not > helping it in some cases. The issue that you're missing here Nate is that Matt is still on the learning curve. Expecting him to come in as the "perfect" team member is foolish, and it was largely unrealistic expectations on the part of -core and other bearded regoliths that led to Matt's original ejection. > > I will point out that all the rewriting I've done so far has been > ^^^ > > I'd call it 'much', since 'some' if it was wrong and hid existing bugs > and/or introduced instabilities. Some bugs are to be expected, but IMO > some of the 'cleanups' were ill-conceived and have done very little to > add stability or reliability to the system. (In particular, some of the > casting bugs were downright wrong, and Bruce went through and cleaned up > a number of them after the fact.) These are hardly grounds for ejection, nor were any of Matt's other design issues. You're putting a very rosy cast on history if you claim there there's no precedent for _working_with_ problems like this. > > to the ultimate benefit of the project in hind sight, resulting in > > better commented, cleaner, and more reliable code and catching > > more bugs. > > 'Most' of what you have done is good stuff, but unfortunately from my > point of view, you aren unable to accept the fact that 'some' of what > you are doing is not helpful and/or wanted, and it's an all-or-nothing > situation. This is not conducive to a group project, nor to the long > term success of FreeBSD. Well shit, we've lived with it from other people before, and worked with them to the good of all. Why can't we do it here? If it's "too hard" for the old guard, I think that's a sign to them they ought not ignore. The bottom line is this: Beggars cannot be choosers. Matt represents a very valuable development resource; one which we wish to avail ourselves of. If this requires some effort on our part, eg. training Matt, learning to deal with his style, etc. this can be done. It's been done before, to fail to do it again would be proof positive of the final ossification of our "leadership", and opens the entire can that was (poorly) closed around the beginning of this year. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13:45:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FFC14F38 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:45:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA99845; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906032045.NAA99845@apollo.backplane.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> <199906032021.OAA23554@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Matthew Dillon writes: : :> I have to say, though, that in order to fix these bugs I really do :> need my commit privs back. If people want these things fixed, :> complain to core. I have the time to fix the bugs with commit :> privs, but I just don't have the time or inclination to fix them :> without. : :What's wrong with the current 'review' scheme? : :> It is just too much stress :> keeping a patch that should be committed in a day or two on the table for :> two weeks and then have to beg people to deal with it. : :Umm, all patches should be reviewed by someone even if you have commit :privileges. Getting commit privileges won't speed up your commits :anymore than they do today, since reviews should still be occurring. I addressed these. Re-read my message. Personally I think reviews are fine, but I will also point out that nearly all the commits done in the last few weeks have not been reviewed with any seriousness prior to the fact as far as I can tell. The combination of being forced to have someone to review even minor fixes and then have to spend another week waiting, praying, and begging for it to get committed is too long and too stressful. I have had little success with people reviewing my stuff anyway -- the only people who understand it take days to review it and I get the feeling that they do not spend all that much time at it even when they do review it. It might as well not be a review at all. :The problem I had with you was your inability to work with others, and :your constant riding roughshod over other people's work and code w/out :fulling understanding (or caring to understand) the reasons for the :design decisions. You were attempting to make 'FreeBSD' into :'MattBSD' from my point of view. : :Case in point, John Dyson's comments explanation to the mailing list for :many of his design decisions explained to even an uninformed person like :me that some of the changes you've made were penalizing FreeBSD, not :helping it in some cases. This couldn't be further from the truth. It is a misconception that many people have because I bring up alternatives for discussion. Most of those alternatives are just for discussion, *not* something I've actually implemented and committed. People also freak out when I spend an hour to implement something (without committing it) in order to test its viability. They seem to believe that I intend to commit it. But people seem to ignore the part of my email that says something is just for test, or just a possible solution and then seem to believe that the algorithm or item has been committed when, in fact, it was never intended to even be written. Find one thing that I've committed that you believe there was serious resistance to on algorithmic grounds. One thing, and I'll tell you the story behind it. I've made dozens of changes and I've rewritten bunches of stuff. What mistakes I have made have been unintentional -- for example, when we broke the buffer cache performance on writes. That breakage was not due to the algorithmic rewrite on algorithmic grounds, but instead due to two lines of missing code. But rather then actually look at the code closely all I got from one core member was a stupid ass posting gushing with inuendo and blame. A screaming fit over two lines of missing code. Ridiculous! :I'd call it 'much', since 'some' if it was wrong and hid existing bugs :and/or introduced instabilities. Some bugs are to be expected, but IMO :some of the 'cleanups' were ill-conceived and have done very little to :add stability or reliability to the system. (In particular, some of the :casting bugs were downright wrong, and Bruce went through and cleaned up :a number of them after the fact.) Like what? Many of the cleanups I did located EXISTING misimplementations elsewhere. These were not bugs in my commits, but bugs elsewhere in the code. I have to fuckup the system anywhere near as badly as other people have in the last few months, yet I do not hear massive complaining about them!: Case in point: Pages on the PQ_CACHE are not supposed to be dirty. When I committed assertions to ensure this ( after almost a week of testing, I might add ) and some people started reporting crashes, it exposed a *SERIOUS* bug in older code (not my code!) that I had nothing to do with. That bug was probably responsible for any number of serious corruption panics in the past. That commit was appropriate. Would argue that it wasn't because it caused a panic? So then you would be arguing that the system was in better shape by not following its own spec then by following it? People, in general, seem afraid to add assertions to the code. This is stupid. Assertions are the quickest way to bring out and isolate bugs that you may not even have known existed. I put over a half a dozen major assertions in the VM code and found a large number of bugs that way. The result? The VM code is an order of magnitude more solid now then it was at the beginning of the year, let alone when compared against 2.2.7 before the MFCs started rolling in. It is the difference between night and day! Those assertions made it possible. :While this might be acceptable if you have no peers, in a group of peers :this doesn't work. No-one likes a lone-ranger who no-one else can work :with, and that is the kind of impression that your behavior left in my :mind. And, this isn't the kind of behavior that will benefit FreeBSD :IMO. Again, this couldn't be farther from the truth. The keyword is "Peers". When I first got my commit privs, half of core decided to stomp all over me with decrees, many of which were no more then thinly disguised insults (whether on purpose or not). Not interact with me as a peer. I attempted to interact with those people as a peer, but the same consideration was not returned to me. Fortunately that wasn't everyone. There are people in core who are willing to take things at face value and interact as peerage. Probably most people in core. But you never hear the good side of things, only the bad spill over into the groups. :Nate -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13:57:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEA014C35 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA56568; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:45:05 PDT." <199906032045.NAA99845@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:57:46 -0700 Message-ID: <56564.928443466@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Perhaps we can cut through all the finger pointing and counter-finger pointing here and just move on to the chase by asking one simple question: Will you be at USENIX? That would be an excellent opportunity to discuss it in person, where emotion and facial-expression stripping isn't such a huge problem and we can also discuss the matter with far greater bandwidth. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 13:57:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4AB1555B for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (crossd@o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA40503; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906032057.QAA40503@cs.rpi.edu> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 (simplified) In-Reply-To: Message from "David E. Cross" of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:03:35 EDT." <199906031803.OAA37531@cs.rpi.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:57:49 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had the hunch that the problem I am dealing with related to the unlink portion of NFS... So I have simplified the code down to this tiny snipet which will reliably crash the system (I left it running by accident and it brought my test machine down 3 times before I remembered to kill it :). This is only 3 lines of code, and a for loop to iterate it. int main(int argc, char **argv) { int fd; int counter; char newfilename[1024]; strcpy(newfilename,argv[1]); strcat(newfilename,".old"); for(counter=0;counter<1000000;counter++) { fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); close(fd); unlink(argv[1]); } return 0; } Again, this appears to need to be run from multiple machines at once to cause the problem (running from 2 dual-ultra 2s running solaris 2.6 in this case). I will attempt to reproduce it with FreeBSD clients later today. In the meantime I am getting down and dirty with the NFS kernel routines. PS: Please give Matt his privs back. You *really* don't want me sending patches to the NFS code ;) -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14: 1:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sortie.eecs.umich.edu (sortie.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.10.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BAD15354 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeggle@engin.umich.edu) Received: from localhost (jeggle@localhost) by sortie.eecs.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22898 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:59:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jeggle@engin.umich.edu) X-Authentication-Warning: sortie.eecs.umich.edu: jeggle owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:59:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph E. Eggleston" X-Sender: jeggle@sortie.eecs.umich.edu To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD routing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying to understand some odd behavior in FreeBSD and I'm wondering if anyone has an explanation for what's going on. I'm using a FreeBSD box as a router in some tests. I cause congestion at the router by sending more packets through it than the outgoing link can handle (10Mbps). What I've noticed is that when the queue becomes full a large number of _consecutive_ packets get dropped. After this the queue is almost empty and it begins to fill again. This behavior seems odd to me. Shouldn't the queue stay about full, dropping packets in a more uniform fashion? I've tried it with both fxp and DEC 21140A cards with similar results. The fxp driver seems to drop fewer packets more frequently (about half the queue, but the queue still ends up nearly empty). The 21140A driver drops less often, but drops about a full queue size when it does. The other odd thing is that it seems to drop more packets than could arrive during the time it's dropping. (I send packets at a constant rate.) I've been messing with the drivers a little and it seems like it might have something to do with the transmit buffer garbage collection? There are alot more details I could give, but I just wanted to know if anyone has any idea at all first. Any ideas? Thanks Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14: 3:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2DD14E1F for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA00126; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906032103.OAA00126@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) References: <56564.928443466@zippy.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Perhaps we can cut through all the finger pointing and counter-finger :pointing here and just move on to the chase by asking one simple :question: Will you be at USENIX? That would be an excellent :opportunity to discuss it in person, where emotion and :facial-expression stripping isn't such a huge problem and we can also :discuss the matter with far greater bandwidth. : :- Jordan Yes, I will be at USENIX. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14: 8: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C7E14E1F for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56717; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:03:13 PDT." <199906032103.OAA00126@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: <56714.928444103@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Excellent. Let's assume then that all the core folk who are there, plus any committers who have an interest in the issue (since core has to listen to its developers' opinions too or we can no longer honestly claim to represent their interests), will be getting together during the week to discuss this issue along with perhaps some general technical discussion of your work and your future plans. It would be a shame (not to mention stupid) to waste this opportunity. - Jordan > :Perhaps we can cut through all the finger pointing and counter-finger > :pointing here and just move on to the chase by asking one simple > :question: Will you be at USENIX? That would be an excellent > :opportunity to discuss it in person, where emotion and > :facial-expression stripping isn't such a huge problem and we can also > :discuss the matter with far greater bandwidth. > : > :- Jordan > > Yes, I will be at USENIX. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14:11:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67BE15354 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA00202; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:11:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906032111.OAA00202@apollo.backplane.com> To: Amancio Hasty Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> <199906031938.MAA99463@apollo.backplane.com> <3756DD11.3F943D5F@mindspring.com> <199906031955.MAA99584@apollo.backplane.com> <3756E0FA.67F0D88F@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :.. :behavior problem with Linux : I do an ftp download in a linux box and :periodically I see a slight pause -- VA research snap back saying that :the problem was due to the VM / Scheduler and that they couldn't :fix it because Linus held tight control over that section of the kernel. : :I would like to know who took your commit priviliges away. : :Amancio The commit privs were pulled after a roe with a core member blew up into an electronic fist fight. It just got too much for me and I blew my top at the guy. It could be argued that it was appropriate at the time, though I personally would have pulled *both* people's commit privs, not just mine, and then only for a little while. Frankly, the whole problem could have been avoided if certain issues had been dealt with by core years ago rather then left to fester. As with any tightly nit group, people get used to the worst of each other's quirks and become hide bound in their opinions and preconceptions of (supposed) outsiders. I think it is a problem that occurs with any tightly nit group, not just the FreeBSD core. The same could be said for the Linux core group, the NetBSD core group, and commercial core groups. It's actually a worse problem in the commercial arena because people are being paid and worry about getting supplanted. ( Ultimately, this is why proper management matters so much with a commercial enterprise. Whenever you hear of companies buying software to monitor their own employee's computer use, you know those companies have screwed up management ). -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14:11:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E2C14E1F for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id XAA13792 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:11:55 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma013789; Thu, 3 Jun 99 23:11:55 +0200 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id XAA28443 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:11:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 36495 invoked by uid 666); 3 Jun 1999 21:12:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:12:16 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: Wilko Bulte Cc: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS Message-ID: <19990603231216.A36464@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> <199906031730.TAA00686@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199906031730.TAA00686@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 07:30:20PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 07:30:20PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > 20 bits. But older cards can do no more than 64 kB. Indeed, 20 bits (=1 Mbyte) for the address, 16 bits for the transfer counter (offset). -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14:36:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9F9158C6 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA00394; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:36:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906032136.OAA00394@apollo.backplane.com> To: Jos Backus Cc: Wilko Bulte , zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS References: <19990603172907.A20792@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> <199906031730.TAA00686@yedi.iaf.nl> <19990603231216.A36464@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 07:30:20PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: :> 20 bits. But older cards can do no more than 64 kB. : :Indeed, 20 bits (=1 Mbyte) for the address, 16 bits for the transfer counter :(offset). : :-- :Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never MAXPHYS is ultimately a limitation on the size of the b_pages array in the struct buf structure. The default is 128 KBytes. Device Drivers are supposed to break up I/O's into manageable sections themselves. Maybe when the buffer I/O / VFS subsystem is rewritten later this year we can get rid of the artificial limitations. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 14:38:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B929158C6 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14682; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:37:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:35:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Jos Backus , Wilko Bulte , zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The choice of MAXPHYS In-Reply-To: <199906032136.OAA00394@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > MAXPHYS is ultimately a limitation on the size of the b_pages array in > the struct buf structure. The default is 128 KBytes. Device Drivers are > supposed to break up I/O's into manageable sections themselves. > > Maybe when the buffer I/O / VFS subsystem is rewritten later this year > we can get rid of the artificial limitations. > please. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:20:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B4014BD6 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA12234; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:20:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <56714.928444103@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:03:13 PDT." <199906032103.OAA00126@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:21:11 -0400 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:08 PM -0700 6/3/99, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Excellent. Let's assume then that all the core folk who are there, > plus any committers who have an interest in the issue (since core > has to listen to its developers' opinions too or we can no longer > honestly claim to represent their interests), will be getting > together... I'm not on the core, I'm not a committer, and I won't be at Usenix. Still, I'd like to mention that as a freebsd *user*, I have appreciated the recent NFS-related work that Matt has done. While others seemed too busy with "new" technology to bother with ugly-old-NFS problems, Matt dived in and pursued them with enough enthusiasm to make a real difference. Even though we obviously still have a few more NFS bugs bothering us, just the fact that someone is obviously pursuing them makes those of us who use FreeBSD for NFS-serving feel much better. Someone who has this much spare energy for tracking down ancient problems in technologically-uninteresting code should be getting some reward for it. In a project like this, it seems to me that the standard reward is a certain degree of respect, and I think Matt's recent work has earned him a bit more respect than he seems to be getting. Given that the FreeBSD project sees one of it's strengths as being a server OS, it baffles me that someone working hard to improve the stability of that OS is being treated as an 'outsider' by the core of 'insiders'. It's not that I think the current insiders are doing bad work, it's just that we can always use someone willing to track down obscure bugs in boring and ancient code. That's just my view as one FreeBSD user. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:37:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AA714EB3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40325>; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:21:39 +1000 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:37:34 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Kernel config script: In-reply-to: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Jun4.082139est.40325@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Leo Papandreou wrote: >On Tue, Jun 01, 1999 at 07:31:57PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >> And, as far as *word processors* go, troff, nroff, and ed pretty >> much suck. ... >Thats absolutely correct. They have no built-in diversion to cope >with writer's block. With MS-Word you can futz with fonts for hours :-) This may be true of ed, but (based on a URL that was posted a few days ago), vi provides a range of diversions. I've seen references to people writing Towers of Hanoi in troff, but I don't have a pointer to the actual code. Of course, it doesn't come close to emacs' capabilities - check out 'info emacs Amusements' :-). When running under X, you can play with the fonts and colours as well. Emacs has also had the ability to embed viruses in documents for far longer than M$-Word has been around - but the defaults are somewhat more sensible and there don't seem to be as many virii floating around. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:41:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F164114EB3; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id XAA00957; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:52:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA58615; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:40:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906032140.XAA58615@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <10787.928406989@peewee> from Jordan Hubbard at "Jun 3, 1999 3:49:49 am" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:40:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, dscheidt@enteract.com, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Jordan Hubbard wrote ... > > of useless. It's like doing uphill testing of a fat guy on a bicycle > > against a Lamborghini - you "know" the result beforehand. > > Unfortunately, what you're probably not aware of is that the fat guy > also has a JATO unit strapped to the back of his bicycle. Don't make > assumptions. :-) You've been reading too much of the Darwin Awards web site ;-) > > If extraction of the ports collection (not files in general, just the > > ports collection) is slower using soft updates than using "async" > > mode, then it seems some elevator sorting isn't working the way it > > Extraction of ALL the distribution bits is faster with async than it > is with soft updates. To put it another, more practical, way - if you > timed the installation with a stopwatch, with or without ports, the > async policy would win and Kirk has even pointed that out in other > emails. Given that, I have to honestly wonder why you've been arguing > so strongly for soft updates being used in the installation. Maybe I'm missing the very obvious: I've always considered (and lots of people who first saw it had the same judgement..) the FreeBSD installation to be fast. Even if you could gain, say, a 10% speedup overall, would that be worth the time/effort? Just playing the devil's (daemon's?) advocate here... | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:41:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7BC15A66 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id XAA00959; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:52:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA80296; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:51:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906032151.XAA80296@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906032111.OAA00202@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jun 3, 1999 2:11:31 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:51:05 +0200 (CEST) Cc: ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Dillon wrote ... > > :.. > :behavior problem with Linux : I do an ftp download in a linux box and > :periodically I see a slight pause -- VA research snap back saying that > :the problem was due to the VM / Scheduler and that they couldn't > :fix it because Linus held tight control over that section of the kernel. > : > :I would like to know who took your commit priviliges away. > : > :Amancio > > The commit privs were pulled after a roe with a core member blew up into > an electronic fist fight. It just got too much for me and I blew my top > at the guy. It could be argued that it was appropriate at the time, > though I personally would have pulled *both* people's commit privs, not > just mine, and then only for a little while. Frankly, the whole problem > could have been avoided if certain issues had been dealt with by core > years ago rather then left to fester. As with any tightly nit group, > people get used to the worst of each other's quirks and become hide bound > in their opinions and preconceptions of (supposed) outsiders. I think it > is a problem that occurs with any tightly nit group, not just the FreeBSD In my experience the group might *appear* tightly knit, but it often is not. Reason: the primary means of communication, being email, is about the most horrible way to get a emotional message across (with the possible exception of a jet fighter :/ ) that is currently in existence. Combine that with 100s of emails a day and you got all the ingredients for a flame war. The only way to solve this, it seems, is to have people actually meet face2face. I have a real life example (i4b) that got straightened out in the end after people actually _talked_ instead of typed. So, by all means try this if at all feasible. The tone of recent discussions on -hackers was acidous enough I'd say.... Just my $0.02 | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:53:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED72B14EB3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 21200 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 22:53:40 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 22:53:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I second this. Even if it's a bit painful, somebody who has been working diligently at this needs to be able to be make their work usable quickly. I would guess that not too many things hinder progress, or quash desire more than fixes to problems languishing. There has to be some middle ground somewhere that lets Matt get his fixes in quickly, and still doesn't ruffle too many core feathers. I had the opportunity to hear some of the core side recently, and I certainly sympathize or empathize with the issue, but nobody else has stepped up to fix the NFS problems, and I would like to see this opportunity capitalized on. On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 2:08 PM -0700 6/3/99, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Excellent. Let's assume then that all the core folk who are there, > > I'm not on the core, I'm not a committer, and I won't be at Usenix. > > Still, I'd like to mention that as a freebsd *user*, I have appreciated > the recent NFS-related work that Matt has done. While others seemed To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 15:57:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gta.com (mailgate.gta.com [199.120.225.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D88114EB3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lab@gta.com) Received: from gta.com (GTA internal mail system) by gta.com with ESMTP id TAA06217 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375707D7.CBE3586B@gta.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:55:19 -0400 From: Larry Baird Reply-To: lab@gta.com Organization: GTA, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Possible conflict in nameser.h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have found a small problem in nameser.h in the ns_rr structure. This structure has a member named class that causes a compilation problem if you include nameser.h into C++. I suspect that I may be the only person to ever hit up against this (:. Any comments before I summit a bug report? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Larry Baird Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL Email: lab@gta.com | TEL 407-380-0220, FAX 407-380-6080 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 16:14: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B873F14EB3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 29854 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Jun 1999 23:14:03 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Jaye Mathisen Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > I second this. Even if it's a bit painful, somebody who has been working > diligently at this needs to be able to be make their work usable quickly. > I would guess that not too many things hinder progress, or quash desire > more than fixes to problems languishing. > > There has to be some middle ground somewhere that lets Matt get his fixes > in quickly, and still doesn't ruffle too many core feathers. > > I had the opportunity to hear some of the core side recently, and I > certainly sympathize or empathize with the issue, but nobody else has > stepped up to fix the NFS problems, and I would like to see this > opportunity capitalized on. Not knowing the FULL story from both sides, I feel it'd be inappropriate if I were to comment on it. However knowing Matt's coding abilities, having seen the eruption here a few months ago, and the past splits that IIUC were due to core problems, perhaps an oversight board (for lack of a better description) consisting of zero core people and zero committers may help to stop or solve some of these erruptions before they spill out into the public's view. Who does a coder, committer, core member, etc, have to turn to if (s)he feels (s)he's getting the shaft? Not anything aimed at you (Jordan) or David, but let's face it - you two have enough to do without having to worry about the petty crap that seeps out as well. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 16:14:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from io.checker.org (h24-66-174-118.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.174.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34CD15A52 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jake@checker.org) Received: from io.checker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by io.checker.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B308DCF for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Good news from NVIDIA] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:42:43 CDT." <199906031242430200.0D4A7C54@192.168.0.99> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:14:29 -0700 From: Jake Burkholder Message-Id: <19990603231429.B308DCF@io.checker.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I spent most of the day recompiling X and what not. All the patches applied cleanly, there are some rejects with MESA, but I think that has to do with tags and comments at the beginning of files. Everything compiled fine, and the module loads, now I just need to get my hands on quake2 :) my video card is a RIVA 128, pci. Seems like they've improved 2d accel quite a bit. Here are the steps I took: cd /usr/ports/x11/XFree86/; make fetch extract patch; patch < XFree86-3_3_3_1.diff; read the README for the glx module, and make some changes to /usr/ports/x11/XFree86/work/xc/config/cf/xf86site.def. I changed #define BuildGlxExt NO to YES. The readme says that's the default, so this may not be necesary. make; make FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes install; cd /usr/ports/graphics/Mesa3; make fetch extract patch; patch < Mesa-3_0.diff; make install; cd glx-0.99; edit the Config file and set XSERVTOP = /usr/ports/x11/XFree86/work/xc and MESATOP = /usr/ports/graphics/Mesa3/work/Mesa-3.0 xmkmf; make Makefile; make Makefiles; make; make install; then edit /etc/XF86Config and add Load "glx.so" to the modules section, and restart your X server. In the output of startx you should see something about loading GLX module. Most Cool. I'd appreciate if someone with quake 2 handy could let me know if it works... Jake -- linux -- the operating system for kiddies, written by kiddies. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 16:21: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117B515A6D for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from tsdev (tsdev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.119]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13795; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by tsdev (SMI-8.6/) id QAA19724; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:04 -0700 Message-ID: <19990603162104.C8565@tsdev.inktomi.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:04 -0700 From: John Plevyak To: lab@gta.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible conflict in nameser.h References: <375707D7.CBE3586B@gta.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <375707D7.CBE3586B@gta.com>; from Larry Baird on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 06:55:19PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 06:55:19PM -0400, Larry Baird wrote: > I have found a small problem in nameser.h in the ns_rr structure. > This structure has a member named class that causes a compilation > problem if you include nameser.h into C++. I suspect that I may be > the only person to ever hit up against this (:. Any comments before > I summit a bug report? > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Larry Baird > Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL > Email: lab@gta.com | TEL 407-380-0220, FAX 407-380-6080 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I have hit this 'bug'. I have a patch: Index: include/arpa/nameser.h =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/src/include/arpa/nameser.h,v retrieving revision 1.12 diff -c -r1.12 nameser.h *** nameser.h 1998/06/11 08:55:15 1.12 --- nameser.h 1999/03/03 18:53:23 *************** *** 140,146 **** typedef struct __ns_rr { char name[NS_MAXDNAME]; /* XXX need to malloc */ u_int16_t type; ! u_int16_t class; u_int32_t ttl; u_int16_t rdlength; const u_char *rdata; --- 140,146 ---- typedef struct __ns_rr { char name[NS_MAXDNAME]; /* XXX need to malloc */ u_int16_t type; ! u_int16_t _class; u_int32_t ttl; u_int16_t rdlength; const u_char *rdata; *************** *** 149,155 **** /* Accessor macros - this is part of the public interface. */ #define ns_rr_name(rr) (((rr).name[0] != '\0') ? (rr).name : ".") #define ns_rr_type(rr) ((rr).type + 0) ! #define ns_rr_class(rr) ((rr).class + 0) #define ns_rr_ttl(rr) ((rr).ttl + 0) #define ns_rr_rdlen(rr) ((rr).rdlength + 0) #define ns_rr_rdata(rr) ((rr).rdata + 0) --- 149,155 ---- /* Accessor macros - this is part of the public interface. */ #define ns_rr_name(rr) (((rr).name[0] != '\0') ? (rr).name : ".") #define ns_rr_type(rr) ((rr).type + 0) ! #define ns_rr_class(rr) ((rr)._class + 0) #define ns_rr_ttl(rr) ((rr).ttl + 0) #define ns_rr_rdlen(rr) ((rr).rdlength + 0) #define ns_rr_rdata(rr) ((rr).rdata + 0) Index: lib/libc/net/ns_parse.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/src/lib/libc/net/ns_parse.c,v retrieving revision 1.1 diff -c -r1.1 ns_parse.c *** ns_parse.c 1998/06/11 09:02:40 1.1 --- ns_parse.c 1999/03/04 19:00:06 *************** *** 160,166 **** NS_GET16(rr->type, handle->_ptr); if (handle->_ptr + NS_INT16SZ > handle->_eom) goto emsgsize; ! NS_GET16(rr->class, handle->_ptr); if (section == ns_s_qd) { rr->ttl = 0; rr->rdlength = 0; --- 160,166 ---- NS_GET16(rr->type, handle->_ptr); if (handle->_ptr + NS_INT16SZ > handle->_eom) goto emsgsize; ! NS_GET16(rr->_class, handle->_ptr); if (section == ns_s_qd) { rr->ttl = 0; rr->rdlength = 0; I would be appreciative if someone could check this in/fix it in some other way. john -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 310, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(650)653-2830 F:(650)653-2889 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 16:24:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp0.mindspring.com (smtp0.mindspring.com [207.69.200.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5290314D7D for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qsoi7.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.98.71]) by smtp0.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00057; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37570ED8.A83B82F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:25:12 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: Jaye Mathisen , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It is a nice idea and I have proposed it in the past however most likely such organization will devolve to the current status-quo with core;however, if the oversight committee is composed of individuals from companies using FreeBSD it may actually work for committee should have a vested interest in FreeBSD. Vince Vielhaber wrote: > On 03-Jun-99 Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > > > I second this. Even if it's a bit painful, somebody who has been working > > diligently at this needs to be able to be make their work usable quickly. > > I would guess that not too many things hinder progress, or quash desire > > more than fixes to problems languishing. > > > > There has to be some middle ground somewhere that lets Matt get his fixes > > in quickly, and still doesn't ruffle too many core feathers. > > > > I had the opportunity to hear some of the core side recently, and I > > certainly sympathize or empathize with the issue, but nobody else has > > stepped up to fix the NFS problems, and I would like to see this > > opportunity capitalized on. > > Not knowing the FULL story from both sides, I feel it'd be inappropriate > if I were to comment on it. However knowing Matt's coding abilities, > having seen the eruption here a few months ago, and the past splits that > IIUC were due to core problems, perhaps an oversight board (for lack of > a better description) consisting of zero core people and zero committers > may help to stop or solve some of these erruptions before they spill out > into the public's view. Who does a coder, committer, core member, etc, > have to turn to if (s)he feels (s)he's getting the shaft? Not anything > aimed at you (Jordan) or David, but let's face it - you two have enough > to do without having to worry about the petty crap that seeps out as well. > > Vince. > -- > ========================================================================== > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null > # include TEAM-OS2 > Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com > Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com > ========================================================================== > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 16:46:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8861A14C27 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@mail.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mail.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA60481; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:48:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199906032348.JAA60481@mail.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906031955.MAA99584@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jun 3, 1999 12:55: 8 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:48:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Matthew Dillon ]--------------------------------------------- | | addressed years ago were left to rot. All that is needed is a reality | check. You want to get Rowdy Roddy Piper on to the core team? d8) -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 17: 6:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D0B7214E2E for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:06:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 29973 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 00:06:14 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37570ED8.A83B82F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:06:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Cc: Jaye Mathisen , Jordan K.Hubbard , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Jun-99 Amancio Hasty wrote: > It is a nice idea and I have proposed it in the past however most likely > such organization will devolve to the current status-quo with core;however, > if the oversight committee is composed of individuals from companies > using FreeBSD it may actually work for committee should have a vested > interest in FreeBSD. My thoughts actually extended beyond oversight committee and into a sort of an appeals role. As far as who, 'individuals from companies' may not provide a broad enough scope. But they should definitely have a vested interest - and no legal degree :) Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 17:26:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5696514E7A for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA93966; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Vince Vielhaber , Jaye Mathisen , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <37570ED8.A83B82F@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I rearranged the things since these folks can't be bothered to comment at the bottom] > Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > Not knowing the FULL story from both sides, I feel it'd be inappropriate > > if I were to comment on it. However knowing Matt's coding abilities, > > having seen the eruption here a few months ago, and the past splits that > > IIUC were due to core problems, perhaps an oversight board (for lack of > > a better description) consisting of zero core people and zero committers > > may help to stop or solve some of these erruptions before they spill out > > into the public's view. Who does a coder, committer, core member, etc, > > have to turn to if (s)he feels (s)he's getting the shaft? Not anything > > aimed at you (Jordan) or David, but let's face it - you two have enough > > to do without having to worry about the petty crap that seeps out as well. > > > > Vince. On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > It is a nice idea and I have proposed it in the past however most likely > such organization will devolve to the current status-quo with core;however, > if the oversight committee is composed of individuals from companies > using FreeBSD it may actually work for committee should have a vested > interest in FreeBSD. I'm sorry, these are both crack-pot ideas, it's been explained again and again, and Amancio, for one, knows this, so I can't see why he went on this way. I will restate the obvious again, please read this before exploding, because I'll make it real clear. I am going to explain reality; if you're complaining about reality, go grab a bottle of bourbon, it will work as well. Reality: FreeBSD is written (not run, not administered, really written) by volunteers. These volunteers work on what they want to. Core can say NO, but they can't say YOU WILL, because the volunteers WON'T. People with no intention (and often no ability) to code keep wanting to tell the folks that DO code what to do. Impossible, this IS NOT a paid organization, the volunteers will just go away and code for another group that is less self-desctructive. Some group you're talking about that doesn't code has no authority whatsoever, and in fact no expertise at all to even pretend they know what they're doing, else they WOULD be coding. You cannot code without real experience, this is not some weird TV show with scifi unreality. The only group that these volunteers will listen to or respect is a group of folks that DO code and DO have the expertise. Trying to get together a group of dilettantes may be a marketing man's idea of how to go, but it will not fit FreeBSD's reality, and you cannot force things like that here. Just realize, IF you're loud enough, and succeed, the programmers will all desert you, and you'll have a nice place to argue, but no more software. Core here does an excellent job, with all the problems they face, most committers will agree to that pretty quickly, and they are the only ones with a vote. Look to reality for the reasons why. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 17:59:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5450414C84 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:59:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 222 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 00:59:07 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:59:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Chuck Robey Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Cc: Jaye Mathisen , Jordan K.Hubbard , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn , Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Jun-99 Chuck Robey wrote: > [I rearranged the things since these folks can't be bothered to comment > at the bottom] > >> Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > >> > Not knowing the FULL story from both sides, I feel it'd be inappropriate >> > if I were to comment on it. However knowing Matt's coding abilities, >> > having seen the eruption here a few months ago, and the past splits that >> > IIUC were due to core problems, perhaps an oversight board (for lack of >> > a better description) consisting of zero core people and zero committers >> > may help to stop or solve some of these erruptions before they spill out >> > into the public's view. Who does a coder, committer, core member, etc, >> > have to turn to if (s)he feels (s)he's getting the shaft? Not anything >> > aimed at you (Jordan) or David, but let's face it - you two have enough >> > to do without having to worry about the petty crap that seeps out as well. >> > >> > Vince. > > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > >> It is a nice idea and I have proposed it in the past however most likely >> such organization will devolve to the current status-quo with core;however, >> if the oversight committee is composed of individuals from companies >> using FreeBSD it may actually work for committee should have a vested >> interest in FreeBSD. > > I'm sorry, these are both crack-pot ideas, it's been explained again and > again, and Amancio, for one, knows this, so I can't see why he went on > this way. I will restate the obvious again, please read this before > exploding, because I'll make it real clear. I am going to explain > reality; if you're complaining about reality, go grab a bottle of > bourbon, it will work as well. > > Reality: FreeBSD is written (not run, not administered, really written) > by volunteers. These volunteers work on what they want to. Core can > say NO, but they can't say YOU WILL, because the volunteers WON'T. > > People with no intention (and often no ability) to code keep wanting to > tell the folks that DO code what to do. Impossible, this IS NOT a paid > organization, the volunteers will just go away and code for another > group that is less self-desctructive. Some group you're talking about > that doesn't code has no authority whatsoever, and in fact no expertise > at all to even pretend they know what they're doing, else they WOULD be > coding. You cannot code without real experience, this is not some weird > TV show with scifi unreality. > > The only group that these volunteers will listen to or respect is a > group of folks that DO code and DO have the expertise. Trying to get > together a group of dilettantes may be a marketing man's idea of how to > go, but it will not fit FreeBSD's reality, and you cannot force things > like that here. > > Just realize, IF you're loud enough, and succeed, the programmers will > all desert you, and you'll have a nice place to argue, but no more > software. Core here does an excellent job, with all the problems they > face, most committers will agree to that pretty quickly, and they are > the only ones with a vote. Look to reality for the reasons why. No need for blowing up, so relax. You may wanna grab that bourbon bottle yourself and take a sip. 1) Noone ever said anything about marketing types trying to run anything. 2) Nothing was ever said about telling volunteers what to do or not do. 3) Nothing was mentioned about the technical abilities of an appeals board or oversight group. 4) Ever do or say something that someone told you that you're out of line? 5) Let's go back to your volunteer thing. You have volunteers willing to work for you - for free. It's no secret that in the past core has been a problem for some (or maybe even many) of these volunteers. They went away. If there's noone they can go to, why should they (or anyone else) bother to volunteer? Earlier in this thread Matt was accused of running rough shod over everyone. Looking over the history and hearing the complaints of some of those involved, I admit not knowing both sides of the FULL story, that core may be partially to blame. But who is there for the *VOLUNTEERS* to turn to? Core? They may have caused the problem. Then once the emotions start to rise there's absolutely NOONE for any of them to look to besides Jordan and/or David. Like they don't already have enough to do. It's obvious there's a problem with the status quo, but if the status quo continues to run rough shod over any possible solution, status quo will end up running out of volunteers and there will be yet another BSD to add to the collection. Maybe the next one can be called ClosedBSD? Now reread your own last paragraph. It goes at least two ways. How much talent and support (technical, financial, advocational[1], etc.) are you willing to lose before anyone's told they're outa line? For all that matter, how much has already been lost? You used the phrase "crack pot". Doesn't a cracked pot leak? Isn't that what's already happening? Talent leaking out? Vince. [1] May not be a word, but should be! -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18: 7:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dyson.iquest.net. (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E98814C84 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24486; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:07:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199906040107.UAA24486@dyson.iquest.net.> Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <199906032021.OAA23554@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 3, 1999 02:21:09 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:07:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams said: > > Case in point, John Dyson's comments explanation to the mailing list for > many of his design decisions explained to even an uninformed person like > me that some of the changes you've made were penalizing FreeBSD, not > helping it in some cases. > BTW, my frustration was due to the strong assertions being made with no qualification as to them being "preliminary." It was made worse due to the offers that I had made (and in fact supported) to help correct the misunderstandings before the assertions were made publically, or code was being committed. If code is being committed, then it is difficult to assume that the code is only "preliminary." "Preliminary" at the level of the sometimes misunderstanding was pre-alpha in quality, and probably not appropriate for commits. Finally, the frustration level got to the point of overflowing. Recognizing the "learning curve" is maybe being made in hindsight. If the individual who was in the "learning" phase would have acknowledged or admitted it to themselves at the time, the needed questions would have been asked by them to clarify their misunderstanding (and sometimes my understanding was wrong also -- however there was a very strong assertiveness that seemed to make it difficult for me to overcome.) Note there were significant commits made without the sometimes "incorrect" assertions being checked. In fact, some commits were made while those assertions were currently challenged, and in some cases found to be incorrect. Not all of the assertions that were made were incorrect, and in *some* cases I was wrong. However, the inability to accept a challenge caused severe tension. I didn't have lots and lots of time to review the claims, and sometimes I had to give hints as to the needed fixes. There were some assumptions made about the complexity of the code, and those assumptions about it were often (but not always) wrong. If the questions were asked in the form "how does this work?" instead of "this is wrong, and I have a fix" then there would have been few problems. Of course, in many cases, the statement that "this is wrong" was incorrect, because the question "how does this work?" wasn't often asked. The learning curve would have been much less painful if questions would have been asked and/or the answers weren't ignored. (There were cases of my answers and suggestions not even being challenged, but were rejected out of hand.) After a while, the *only* way to be heard was to become extremely assertive. Being assertive the way that I had to be was very very painful for me, but regressions kept on creeping in. The *only* way to throttle the anti-progress was to raise a big stink. As an artifact of hindsight, it might be possible to currently spin the situation as being a difficult learning curve, but the fact was that the learning curve didn't have to be difficult, and the tools to make it easier were available, but were ignored. Since a review process is now in place, and if it is continues to be followed, then the commit privs might (IMO) reasonably be reinstated. The key is to make it a standard practice to truly understand a piece of code before making changes to it. I was upset about Matt having his privs removed, but also had mixed feelings about it due to the need to throttle some of the changes that were being made sometimes without a clear understanding of how the code being changed really works. I suspect that there are still things happening that miss the point as to how the code works, and I am still available as a resource. However, seeing code changes that are a result of ignoring either the need to carefully understand the code, or ignoring available resources caused alot of frustration. There is *nothing* that inhibits me from communicating how the code works, however the potential recipient of the info has to want to hear it. Sometimes I had to give hints rather than detailed operational info, but those hints would have mitigated enough regression to make the information worthwhile. I am sometimes slow about reviewing things (like the pipe code fixes right now), however will eventually get around to them. FreeBSD is in the phase where it needs to maintain commercial quality with less tolerance for experimental works interfering with operational behavior. The backlog of new code that I had when I quit was probably at least a year of commits. Quickly writing code and committing it (even if the code was well understood) had to stop, and it was part of my new operating procedure, esp since I was one of the more aggressive system-breaker :-). I had put together a testing framework (including people interested in getting pre-commit code to experiment with.) I suggest that that sort of infrastructure be put into place now, if there are significant new features to be added. (It isn't enough, IMO, to have code reviewed by developers, but it is wise to enlist the support of end users who are willing to try new changes on test boxes.) In order to start from where the code is today, instead of starting from scratch or loosing capabilities, fully understanding the code is necessary. When Matt first started, it was pretty clear that his understanding was superficial, and enough to make non-strategic changes to the code. In order to understand the code in depth it probably takes at least several mos for a competent programmer. It is likely that there are still pieces that he doesn't understand, but also it is likely that he now knows more about the areas that he doesn't fully understand, and recognizes that there are *sometimes* things under the surface that require careful study. My guess is that he probably didn't initially recognize that fact, and that is one reason why he didn't feel like he needed the answers to the questions that he didn't know that he needed to ask :-). Note that when the FreeBSD code was initially being upgraded to what it is today (over the last 5yrs), there were few resources for DG and I to utilize. Now, there are such resources (the current developers can use DG or me, or other longer term developers. Matt has ALC working with him also.) When we were moving the codebase aggressively forward, doing some things that weren't done before (especially in source-available code), we didn't have anyone to ask. Now the developers have a much better support system, and there are fewer excuses for regression in the codebase. Some of the reasons for FreeBSD's behavior are not individual features in isolation, but are a result of the interaction of various design choices. It is difficult to express those kinds of facts when the reasons for the individual choices aren't well known by the person trying to interpret the information and design choices. There was a strong need for bidirectional communications, and a need to *convince* Matt that there are more things going on under the hood than most people would initially observe. There are some pieces of the code that are designed a certain way, with the plan for the future to eventually formalize the implementation. A good example of this was the way that the pageout queues were managed. It is very easy to overlook the reason for the code to do what it does :-). An open discussion amongst developers would have clarified the reasons for the design choices, and the 1Hr/wk or so on the phone would have been alot more efficient for my time than spending alot of time (>>1Hr/wk) writing docs that I unfortunately didn't have the time to produce. (One of the reasons why I had to quit FreeBSD was extreme burnout due to the creation of a vast amount of backlogged work... I just couldn't do "it" anymore until I recovered. I had lots of stuff cooking for FreeBSD at the time.) The pageout queue blowup wouldn't have happened if a phone call was made, and I could have explained why it was needed. (That would have taken a few minutes, and there would have been no public discussion.) By asking questions, people often get more of an answer than they really need. When dealing with complex issues, it is best to talk on the phone, and I continue to suggest that on an as needed basis. Some simple phone calls can eliminate alot of friction. Perhaps I should have provided more time to him, but I really couldn't then, and I sometimes could only provide help in the form of "hints". If those hints were listened to, most of the problems and regressions that have transpired wouldn't have happened. Sometimes I have been wrong in technical areas where I might be expert, but few people can truthfully claim that I don't admit it when I am wrong, and try to correct the effects of my misunderstanding. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:11:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dyson.iquest.net. (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE4514C84 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:11:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24492; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:11:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199906040111.UAA24492@dyson.iquest.net.> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <3756DD11.3F943D5F@mindspring.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jun 3, 1999 12:52:49 pm" To: ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:11:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty said: > > Silly me , I was wondering what happen to you . I vote that your commit > priviliges should not be taken away by the "Dark Side" of core and > should be re-instated. > It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. When Matt's privs were taken away, I was sad, but also there is now an effective review process in place. I suspect that core will likely return commit privs if a review process is adhered to (and followed) for non-trivial commits. (They might even return them anyway :-)). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:16:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4D215A2C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qsoj3.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.98.99]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16107 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37572910.D15A90D7@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:17:04 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > [I rearranged the things since these folks can't be bothered to comment > at the bottom] > > > Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > > > Not knowing the FULL story from both sides, I feel it'd be inappropriate > > > if I were to comment on it. However knowing Matt's coding abilities, > > > having seen the eruption here a few months ago, and the past splits that > > > IIUC were due to core problems, perhaps an oversight board (for lack of > > > a better description) consisting of zero core people and zero committers > > > may help to stop or solve some of these erruptions before they spill out > > > into the public's view. Who does a coder, committer, core member, etc, > > > have to turn to if (s)he feels (s)he's getting the shaft? Not anything > > > aimed at you (Jordan) or David, but let's face it - you two have enough > > > to do without having to worry about the petty crap that seeps out as well. > > > > > > Vince. > > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > It is a nice idea and I have proposed it in the past however most likely > > such organization will devolve to the current status-quo with core;however, > > if the oversight committee is composed of individuals from companies > > using FreeBSD it may actually work for committee should have a vested > > interest in FreeBSD. > > I'm sorry, these are both crack-pot ideas, it's been explained again and > again, and Amancio, for one, knows this, so I can't see why he went on > this way. I will restate the obvious again, please read this before > exploding, because I'll make it real clear. I am going to explain > reality; if you're complaining about reality, go grab a bottle of > bourbon, it will work as well. > > Reality: FreeBSD is written (not run, not administered, really written) > by volunteers. These volunteers work on what they want to. Core can > say NO, but they can't say YOU WILL, because the volunteers WON'T. > > People with no intention (and often no ability) to code keep wanting to > tell the folks that DO code what to do. Impossible, this IS NOT a paid > organization, the volunteers will just go away and code for another > group that is less self-desctructive. Some group you're talking about > that doesn't code has no authority whatsoever, and in fact no expertise > at all to even pretend they know what they're doing, else they WOULD be > coding. You cannot code without real experience, this is not some weird > TV show with scifi unreality. I differ with the above Alice in Wonderland explanation on the management of "coders" or software projects. In your scenario I would say it depends upon whether the coders wishes to impose his own technological point of view and displace others solely based on political or emotional motivations without any technological or scientific considerations and what should be done about it when we reach such crossroads which is a far cry from dictating what people should code or do. I do understand that this is a volunteered organization and you don't need to explain it . I think that if the current scenario of core just snapping priviliges or ignoring developers continues development will actually come to a painfully slow pace. Just read Matt's email and see who is stepping up to take his place and he is a *volunteer*. The problem now is who can step up to support Matt , NFS development, or resolve the current conflict between core and Matt. As stated by another user, NFS is a key technology component for a UNIX server class OS. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:30:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3304615A2E for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10109; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:30:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04287; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:29:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199906040129.CAA04287@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:21:11 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:29:37 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > Someone who has this much spare energy for tracking down ancient > problems in technologically-uninteresting code should be getting > some reward for it. In a project like this, it seems to me that > the standard reward is a certain degree of respect, and I think > Matt's recent work has earned him a bit more respect than he seems > to be getting. [.....] IMHO Matt is respected far more than you think. But as he points out himself, you never get to see that respect - you just tend to get dumped on from a great height when you do anything slightly wrong - even if that wrongness is just a different way of doing things. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:31:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223A614E2B for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA01566; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906040131.SAA01566@apollo.backplane.com> To: Date:Thu@apollo.backplane.com, 3@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun@FreeBSD.ORG, 1999@FreeBSD.ORG, 20:07:23.-0500@apollo.backplane.com (EST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) References: <199906040107.UAA24486@dyson.iquest.net.> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :The learning curve would have been much less painful if questions :would have been asked and/or the answers weren't ignored. (There were :cases of my answers and suggestions not even being challenged, but :were rejected out of hand.) After a while, the *only* way to be :heard was to become extremely assertive. Being assertive the way :that I had to be was very very painful for me, but regressions :kept on creeping in. The *only* way to throttle the anti-progress :was to raise a big stink. I don't want to be a pest, because this really shouldn't be on an open forum. But John: I would ask you questions and the answers I would get would be in the form: "Nobody understands that code but me, don't touch what you don't understand", or "The algorithm is obvious from the code". This in regards to non-compartmentalized algorithms strewn across half a dozen source files which are almost universally lacking in comments of any substance. It would take several emails back and forth before you would grudgingly dig up your old code and review it yourself. Because you were often not absolutely sure about your own description, you tended to give me general answers lacking in detail first, requiring me to prod you for further detail. That VM code was very fragile. It mostly worked, but it was very fragile. It still IS fragile. I spent a quarter of my time simply commenting the existing code. I've had to do the same thing with the NFS and buffer cache code, VM object code, VM map code. The VFS code still needs a huge amount of commenting. The struct buf and device interaction with the struct buf still needs an enormous amount of commenting. blkno, lblkno, pblkno.... hack upon hack upon hack. All uncommented and inadequately commented. -Matt Matthew Dillon :dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid :jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE95C15ADB for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:47:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10176; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:46:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04373; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:45:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:11:38 CDT." <199906040111.UAA24492@dyson.iquest.net.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:45:56 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried > part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 18:59: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A67315A1A for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA94242; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:58:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: Jaye Mathisen , "Jordan K.Hubbard" , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn , Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > Just realize, IF you're loud enough, and succeed, the programmers will > > all desert you, and you'll have a nice place to argue, but no more > > software. Core here does an excellent job, with all the problems they > > face, most committers will agree to that pretty quickly, and they are > > the only ones with a vote. Look to reality for the reasons why. > > No need for blowing up, so relax. You may wanna grab that bourbon > bottle yourself and take a sip. Maybe you're right, but I'm tired to people talking about core like they're some evil overlord group. These guys are longtime FreeBSDers. They've been doing it a long time, and a large part of why they are still doing it is because of a feeling of responsibility. They're doing a great job, even if it's not 100% without error, and FreeBSD would go right down the tubes pretty quickly without coolheaded guidance, just because of the lack of control. You don't have to look hard at all to see several recent (and some ongoing) episodes of folks trying to go off on their own, and the only real restraint is the realization of what kind of limits core will allow. It's got a *great* track record. We can argue specific issues, but attacking core itself, that I'm going to jump up and shout about. > 2) Nothing was ever said about telling volunteers what to do or not do. You referred to a group other than core setting policy. > 3) Nothing was mentioned about the technical abilities of an appeals > board or oversight group. You said that group would have no committers or core on it. Anyone who's shown skill and time has been pretty quickly asked to become a committer, so that pretty much means you're asking for either non-technical folks, or folks without the time to follow things close enough to have any real idea what's going on. Seeing as you did admit you haven't followed the issues closely enough yourself, you're one of the ones you figure would be on that board, right? > 4) Ever do or say something that someone told you that you're out of > line? Oh, yeah, sure, I make mistakes. Maybe wrong here, but I said above what keyed me off. It sure isn't bragging if I say here that I'm willing to bet I make more mistakes than you do, but I don't think I'm wrong here. > 5) Let's go back to your volunteer thing. You have volunteers willing > to work for you - for free. It's no secret that in the past core > has been a problem for some (or maybe even many) of these volunteers. > They went away. As has been pointed out endless times, you have to know how to code and be willing to read FreeBSD code enough so that you can contribute well integrated code. If you can't code or don't have the time, no, you can't contribute that way. You can help us by putting in problem reports, but not by trying to gain control, even a small part. The coders control FreeBSD, because they love it. Those are really the only folks who get to directly contribute. Free contributors, out of control, are a mob. > > If there's noone they can go to, why should they (or anyone else) bother > to volunteer? The FreeBSD mailing lists are the most active, quick response groups on the net. Don't you feel silly claiming there's no one they can go to? > Earlier in this thread Matt was accused of running rough shod over everyone. > Looking over the history and hearing the complaints of some of those involved, > I admit not knowing both sides of the FULL story, that core may be partially > to blame. But who is there for the *VOLUNTEERS* to turn to? Core? They > may have caused the problem. Then once the emotions start to rise there's > absolutely NOONE for any of them to look to besides Jordan and/or David. > Like they don't already have enough to do. That last paragraph ... "core may be partially to blame". Did you read the entire thing, which went on in the -current and -committers list? If you didn't, then you don't get a chance to comment. If you want to jump on core, read the mailing list archives and get the arguments in order. You can't just slander folks that way, and expect it to be taken as just innocent sniping, because sniping isn't innocent. In fact, Matt was hearing a great deal of negative comment on his commits, from folks who originally did the code, and he was ignoring it, claiming it "slowed him down". This went on over weeks. The only way to stop him, demonstrably, was what was done, because all the mail arguments did was raise temperatures, not slow things down a whit. Matt does *great* code, he just doesn't like to read and test as much as code away and react later to problem reports. Being that he was working on the virtual memory system, something which can very easily get totally beyond repair without careful testing, his refusal to slow down was more than could be tolerated. He may well write better code than nearly all of us, but he needed to do it slower. He sure as heck writes better code than I do. > It's obvious there's a problem with the status quo, but if the status quo > continues to run rough shod over any possible solution, status quo will > end up running out of volunteers and there will be yet another BSD to add > to the collection. Maybe the next one can be called ClosedBSD? Why, because you listen to a few days of the loudest complainers, and decide without further ado that they must be right? There were good reasons behind both of the two recent problems, but you've admitted you haven't done the reading to comment on it. Why do you then feel qualified to say it's core's fault? Say I agreed with you (I obviously don't), what would your reasons be? If you can't *really* answer that, and not just add in suppositions, then you are being ethically dishonest. > > Now reread your own last paragraph. It goes at least two ways. How much > talent and support (technical, financial, advocational[1], etc.) are you > willing to lose before anyone's told they're outa line? For all that > matter, how much has already been lost? You used the phrase "crack pot". > Doesn't a cracked pot leak? Isn't that what's already happening? Talent > leaking out? The problem *was* folks who wanted to code far faster than the review process would allow. Core still feels that's wrong. If Matt were willing the *guarantee* that he wouldn't overrun reviewers, then he'd be back as a comitter tonight. It is *not* worth it to bring on all possible contributors, if they're going to innocently cause more damage than they fix, even if they are doing it with the best of intentions. Controlling contributors is the whole problem core's been working on, they fully realize the tradeoffs, do you really think they don't? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 19: 7:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10432159FA for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA044166699; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:51:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:51:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Brian Somers Cc: dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , Matthew Dillon , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Brian Somers wrote: > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. I think where the problem lied is very relevent. If the problems are not his fault are you saying he should have backed out his changes because they exposed old faulty code? What kind of progress is that? - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 19: 9:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5482A14D07 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:09:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 23147 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 02:09:26 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 02:09:26 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05099; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906040209.VAA05099@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Jun 4, 99 02:45:56 am" To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:09:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried > > part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. > > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. > I was worried about the commit privs being removed, and Matt potentially giving up though. On a project where people's livelihoods are dependent, some kind of discipline is needed. In code as complex as the VM and VFS systems, it is good to require some kind of review... As I said before, I had lots of stuff in the queue, but was scared to commit it. It was critical to develop a testing infrastructure, and whether or not I am involved day-to-day, review and/or testing is very wise. (Perhaps it is more accurate to say that it is very unwise not to review and/or test code such as in the VM or VFS...) John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 19:18:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7327714C47 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 3612 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05115; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:18:27 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906040218.VAA05115@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: from Bill Fumerola at "Jun 3, 99 05:51:39 pm" To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:18:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Brian Somers wrote: > > > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. > > I think where the problem lied is very relevent. > > If the problems are not his fault are you saying he should have backed > out his changes because they exposed old faulty code? What kind of > progress is that? > The key is that if problems are going to be uncovered, then understanding the rest of the code well enough to fix it is important. There were not only cases of new or uncovered bugs, but regression and mistaken removal of features that weren't understood. All of the stuff requires some kind of learning curve, and just jumping in and "coding" isn't really a wise thing to do or allow. IMO, revokation of commit privs has given enough time to support the learning curve and enforce a review process. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 19:25:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8064414C47 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA01897; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> To: Brian Somers Cc: dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried :> part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. : :The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the :instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. :The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. : :-- :Brian This is silly. The system was not becoming unstable due to my commits. Where'd you get that from? I might have occassionally glitched something for a day or two. I think I broke build world once, blew write efficiency temporarily one time, and of the asserts added I recall only one or two panics that were due to an incorrect assert, and serveral that were due to unrelated bugs uncovered by the assert ( i.e. the assert did its job ). There might have been minor problems with 'pstat' output after the VM switchover due to the new swapper. We broke madvise() once or twice but that doesn't count because it was already badly broken before we tried to fix it, and we found several bugs in the course of trying to fix it. Not much else. Considering the amount of code committed I'd say that's a pretty good record. Most people blow things up committing just a few lines of code. And this nonsense in another email about things being untested is also complete bull. I had a machine dedicated to running test kernels 24 hours a day. I still do. In fact, I have three machines dedicated to running test kernels at the moment. Many of the VM changes underwent several days of testing before being committed, and virtually all of it was reviewed to some degree. Most of the NFS changes underwent a week or more of testing... sometimes even longer. The VM swapper underwent almost a month of testing albeit with a lot of changes in the midst of that. Testing does not locate all problems, however. This is what I mean about rumors turning into supposed facts. The fact of the matter is that what mistakes I made ( and I would argue that a certain number of mistakes are unavoidable ) were all minor. Point to one major mistake! The only alternative would have been to not touch the code at all, meaning that nothing would have gotten fixed or made more maintainable. A lot of the rewrites that supposedly contained no meaningful fixes actually do: They make the code more readable in preparation for future changes coming down the line. There is a point where emplacing a hack on top of a hack on top of a hack leads to diminishing returns and rewrite is necessary to reset the clock. I would argue that a good chunk of the code I rewrote ( which itself is only a portion of the commits made ) fall into that category. The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be rewritten. For a case in point you need look no further then the buffer cache and device I/O code. It's so messed up that even I could only add hacks to portions of it to implement necessary VM pager functions properly, but I sure do not intend those hacks to remain in there forever! The I/O subsystem is a holy mess. The only reason I'm not working on it right now is because I think Poul is intending to work on it later in the year. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 19:38:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18AF315A43 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15531; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:35:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:32:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Brian Somers , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is > when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be rewritten. > For a case in point you need look no further then the buffer cache and > device I/O code. It's so messed up that even I could only add hacks to > portions of it to implement necessary VM pager functions properly, but > I sure do not intend those hacks to remain in there forever! The I/O > subsystem is a holy mess. The only reason I'm not working on it right now > is because I think Poul is intending to work on it later in the year. > Now I'm getting a bit torqued at this. Yes, there are problems here, but rather than keeping it to yourself what the problems are, how about being constructive in suggesting ways we can all improve things. From the tone of your email I take it that only you and others you approve of could be considered competent to fix this situation. If that's the case, then indeed you should piss off to somewhere else. Is this what you meant? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 20: 1:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C37421541D for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 587 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 03:01:25 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:01:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Chuck Robey Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Cc: Jaye Mathisen , Jordan K.Hubbard , Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance A Drosihn , Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Jun-99 Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > >> > Just realize, IF you're loud enough, and succeed, the programmers will >> > all desert you, and you'll have a nice place to argue, but no more >> > software. Core here does an excellent job, with all the problems they >> > face, most committers will agree to that pretty quickly, and they are >> > the only ones with a vote. Look to reality for the reasons why. >> >> No need for blowing up, so relax. You may wanna grab that bourbon >> bottle yourself and take a sip. > > Maybe you're right, but I'm tired to people talking about core like > they're some evil overlord group. These guys are longtime FreeBSDers. > They've been doing it a long time, and a large part of why they are > still doing it is because of a feeling of responsibility. They're doing > a great job, even if it's not 100% without error, and FreeBSD would go > right down the tubes pretty quickly without coolheaded guidance, just > because of the lack of control. You don't have to look hard at all to > see several recent (and some ongoing) episodes of folks trying to go off > on their own, and the only real restraint is the realization of what > kind of limits core will allow. > > It's got a *great* track record. We can argue specific issues, but > attacking core itself, that I'm going to jump up and shout about. > >> 2) Nothing was ever said about telling volunteers what to do or not do. > > You referred to a group other than core setting policy. No, I did not say setting policy. A place for an appeal or an oversight. I'd never advocate a group other than core for policy - if that's what you got out of it then either you misread or I poorly worded something. If it's the latter then I apologize. >> 3) Nothing was mentioned about the technical abilities of an appeals >> board or oversight group. > > You said that group would have no committers or core on it. Anyone > who's shown skill and time has been pretty quickly asked to become a > committer, so that pretty much means you're asking for either > non-technical folks, or folks without the time to follow things close > enough to have any real idea what's going on. > > Seeing as you did admit you haven't followed the issues closely enough > yourself, you're one of the ones you figure would be on that board, > right? Actually no. I haven't followed the issues closely enough by choice. I'm not sure I'd really want to get that deeply into the politics of it. Even if asked I can't say that I'd consider doing it. The reason I'd want no core or committers on it is strictly for political reasons. Core *appears* to hold a heavy hand and it's very possible the committers and/or coders are intimidated by them. Now with that scenario would you want either to be on any such committee? I'm trying to look at this from a completely detached viewpoint. > >> 4) Ever do or say something that someone told you that you're out of >> line? > > Oh, yeah, sure, I make mistakes. Maybe wrong here, but I said above > what keyed me off. It sure isn't bragging if I say here that I'm > willing to bet I make more mistakes than you do, but I don't think I'm > wrong here. I dunno, I could probably give you a good run :) > >> 5) Let's go back to your volunteer thing. You have volunteers willing >> to work for you - for free. It's no secret that in the past core >> has been a problem for some (or maybe even many) of these volunteers. >> They went away. > > As has been pointed out endless times, you have to know how to code and > be willing to read FreeBSD code enough so that you can contribute well > integrated code. If you can't code or don't have the time, no, you > can't contribute that way. You can help us by putting in problem > reports, but not by trying to gain control, even a small part. The > coders control FreeBSD, because they love it. Those are really the only > folks who get to directly contribute. > > Free contributors, out of control, are a mob. Can't the same be said of a closed minded group whether they're core or contributers? > >> >> If there's noone they can go to, why should they (or anyone else) bother >> to volunteer? > > The FreeBSD mailing lists are the most active, quick response groups on > the net. Don't you feel silly claiming there's no one they can go to? Not at all. Why should this ever have gotten to the lists? Don't you feel silly that it had to be aired in public? Matt's complaints were expressed just a few months ago in this same forum. "silly" is a weak term to describe why it was handled the way it was, doncha think? Embarassing for *all* of us (core, user, contributer, bystander, floorsweeper, whoever) is more like it. >> Earlier in this thread Matt was accused of running rough shod over everyone. >> Looking over the history and hearing the complaints of some of those involved, >> I admit not knowing both sides of the FULL story, that core may be partially >> to blame. But who is there for the *VOLUNTEERS* to turn to? Core? They >> may have caused the problem. Then once the emotions start to rise there's >> absolutely NOONE for any of them to look to besides Jordan and/or David. >> Like they don't already have enough to do. > > That last paragraph ... "core may be partially to blame". Did you read > the entire thing, which went on in the -current and -committers list? > If you didn't, then you don't get a chance to comment. If you want to > jump on core, read the mailing list archives and get the arguments in > order. You can't just slander folks that way, and expect it to be taken > as just innocent sniping, because sniping isn't innocent. I've slandered noone. Take another sip of the bourbon. There's more history than this one incident. If you want to try to isolate it to that then I'm not the one that shouldn't "get a chance to comment". Like I said, I've slandered noone, and this isn't "innocent sniping". I'm not taking sides in this - although it's obvious you already have. > In fact, Matt was hearing a great deal of negative comment on his > commits, from folks who originally did the code, and he was ignoring it, > claiming it "slowed him down". This went on over weeks. The only way > to stop him, demonstrably, was what was done, because all the mail > arguments did was raise temperatures, not slow things down a whit. Please reread both Matt's and John's comments. They're both summed up in this very thread. Matt's are pretty much the same as they were a few months ago, without going back and rereading John's I can't say if his are but they're still here to read. It doesn't exactly coincide with what you say above. > Matt does *great* code, he just doesn't like to read and test as much as > code away and react later to problem reports. Being that he was working > on the virtual memory system, something which can very easily get > totally beyond repair without careful testing, his refusal to slow down > was more than could be tolerated. He may well write better code than > nearly all of us, but he needed to do it slower. He sure as heck writes > better code than I do. > >> It's obvious there's a problem with the status quo, but if the status quo >> continues to run rough shod over any possible solution, status quo will >> end up running out of volunteers and there will be yet another BSD to add >> to the collection. Maybe the next one can be called ClosedBSD? > > Why, because you listen to a few days of the loudest complainers, and > decide without further ado that they must be right? Why do you ass-u-me that I've just arrived here? I may not have been around here from the beginning but I've been around since at least the early 2.0 or 2.1 releases (I can go dig up old CDs if it really matters that much). I'd have been here sooner if I'd made a better choice of SCSI cards. I also have subscriptions to both the releases and toolkit, and I insist that any of my customers (and even friends) that I provide tech support for also get a subscription to help the cause. > There were good reasons behind both of the two recent problems, but > you've admitted you haven't done the reading to comment on it. Why do > you then feel qualified to say it's core's fault? Say I agreed with you > (I obviously don't), what would your reasons be? If you can't *really* > answer that, and not just add in suppositions, then you are being > ethically dishonest. Once again I did not say it's core's fault and if you insist on continuing to insinuate that then I'd have to take back my previous suggestion of you having another sip of bourbon! I'm taking NO SIDES! More than likely there's enough blame and misunderstanding to go around - the one position I will continue to take, tho, is that it *NEVER* should have gotten this far. I'd hope that you'd also agree with at least that point. And please don't question my ethics or honesty if you don't know me. To those who do know me, you wouldn't be cast in a flattering light which is probably unfair to you. >> Now reread your own last paragraph. It goes at least two ways. How much >> talent and support (technical, financial, advocational[1], etc.) are you >> willing to lose before anyone's told they're outa line? For all that >> matter, how much has already been lost? You used the phrase "crack pot". >> Doesn't a cracked pot leak? Isn't that what's already happening? Talent >> leaking out? > > The problem *was* folks who wanted to code far faster than the review > process would allow. Core still feels that's wrong. If Matt were > willing the *guarantee* that he wouldn't overrun reviewers, then he'd be > back as a comitter tonight. Humor me here. Are you saying that core couldn't keep up with Matt so it's all his fault and if he were to promise to go to the bar more often or get a second hobby everything would be ok? > It is *not* worth it to bring on all possible contributors, if they're > going to innocently cause more damage than they fix, even if they are > doing it with the best of intentions. Believe it or not I actually agree with you here. See, all hope is not lost. > Controlling contributors is the whole problem core's been working on, > they fully realize the tradeoffs, do you really think they don't? I would hope not. But let's face it, that's not the best choice of words for that description, now is it? Or perhaps that's the problem? Core couldn't *control* Matt? Sorry, that was a cheap shot and undeserved, but you can see how easily it can be slid in by anyone else. See what I mean? There's a big difference between controlling and working with (I think the term 'peer' was used). Once again, please don't take offense, 'cuze there's none intended. Anyway, it'd probably be best that if you want to continue the discussion we did it out of the public spotlight, or at the very least not on hackers. But feel free to include anyone you wish. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 20: 3:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7327115A50 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA02303; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906040303.UAA02303@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Brian Somers , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> I sure do not intend those hacks to remain in there forever! The I/O :> subsystem is a holy mess. The only reason I'm not working on it right now :> is because I think Poul is intending to work on it later in the year. :> : :Now I'm getting a bit torqued at this. Yes, there are problems here, :but rather than keeping it to yourself what the problems are, how about :being constructive in suggesting ways we can all improve things. A number of conversations and threads have already taken place on the topic, though most have been with small private pools of people. John, DG, and I ( and maybe a couple of other people ) have discussed rerouting VFS operations through the VM system. I think that leaked onto the public lists at one point. Poul has a number of really good ideas that he's talked to me about that I find very exciting... basically ways to fix the buffer cache operation and VFS layering by splitting it into a struct buf and a layerable struct ioreq. Poul's ideas are the most realizeable that I've heard to date. Eventually I think we will have to do both. We also need to fix vnode locking for VFS ops. Right now there is a single vnode/inode lock that is being used both to lock exclusive operations and to lock I/O operations. What we really need is to have a master lock for atomicy and range-locks for I/O. For example, right now operations on a large file ( say, a 'history' file for a news system ) make relatively inefficient use of the VM cache. This is because the vnode is being locked exclusively through I/O operations, causing other I/O operations that could be accessing cached data to block unnecessarily. The other big problem is with locking order. Some operations lock the vnode and related VM map in a different order then other operations, leading to a potential deadlock situation ( also occurs in known mmap/write lockups ). Sometimes its hard to keep track of all the things that need fixing. There are a lot of dependancies. Some things need to be fixed before work can begin on other things. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 20: 3:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0167B15A56; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA21653; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:03:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id FAA80717; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:03:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:03:28 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: David Scheidt , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a two-level port system? (fwd) Message-ID: <19990604050327.I77195@bitbox.follo.net> References: <19990602173528.B70808@bitbox.follo.net> <10787.928406989@peewee> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <10787.928406989@peewee>; from Jordan Hubbard on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:49:49AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:49:49AM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > of useless. It's like doing uphill testing of a fat guy on a bicycle > > against a Lamborghini - you "know" the result beforehand. > > Unfortunately, what you're probably not aware of is that the fat guy > also has a JATO unit strapped to the back of his bicycle. Don't make > assumptions. :-) I think the bricks some joker put inside the wheels of the Lamborghini might be more of an issue, actually. Not that I will take it as an assumption... :) > > If extraction of the ports collection (not files in general, just the > > ports collection) is slower using soft updates than using "async" > > mode, then it seems some elevator sorting isn't working the way it > > Extraction of ALL the distribution bits is faster with async than it > is with soft updates. The IMO most relevant benchmark is minimal install + ports - because that's where you see the impact of the ports extraction most. > To put it another, more practical, way - if you timed the > installation with a stopwatch, with or without ports, the async > policy would win and Kirk has even pointed that out in other emails. That's interesting, but not really relevant for my reason for wanting this - which is the psychological effect on the user. I'm not really interested in how long time the installation takes - I'm interested in the user NOT seeing his 100MBit link drop down to 10KB/s download speed during extraction of the ports collection. > Given that, I have to honestly wonder why you've been arguing so > strongly for soft updates being used in the installation. Because I've been assuming that dropping the synchronous writes during the ports collection extract would have a really significant difference. My wish is to fix the ports extraction time, and your previous reply (on IRC) indicated that the reason for not wanting soft updates on the install floppy was the license, not that it didn't fix the speed. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 20:12: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA4A15A52 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15646; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:08:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Brian Somers , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040303.UAA02303@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :Now I'm getting a bit torqued at this. Yes, there are problems here, > :but rather than keeping it to yourself what the problems are, how about > :being constructive in suggesting ways we can all improve things. > > A number of conversations and threads have already taken place on the > topic, though most have been with small private pools of people. John, DG, > and I ( and maybe a couple of other people ) have discussed rerouting > VFS operations through the VM system. I think that leaked onto the public > lists at one point. Poul has a number of really good ideas that he's > talked to me about that I find very exciting... basically ways to fix the > buffer cache operation and VFS layering by splitting it into a struct buf > and a layerable struct ioreq. Poul's ideas are the most realizeable > that I've heard to date. Eventually I think we will have to do both. > > We also need to fix vnode locking for VFS ops. Right now there is a > single vnode/inode lock that is being used both to lock exclusive > operations and to lock I/O operations. What we really need is to > have a master lock for atomicy and range-locks for I/O. > > For example, right now operations on a large file ( say, a 'history' > file for a news system ) make relatively inefficient use of the VM > cache. This is because the vnode is being locked exclusively through > I/O operations, causing other I/O operations that could be accessing > cached data to block unnecessarily. The other big problem is with > locking order. Some operations lock the vnode and related VM map > in a different order then other operations, leading to a potential > deadlock situation ( also occurs in known mmap/write lockups ). > > Sometimes its hard to keep track of all the things that need fixing. > There are a lot of dependancies. Some things need to be fixed before > work can begin on other things. Thank you. That's the clarification I needed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 20:32:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtprtp.nortel.com (smtprtp.NortelNetworks.com [192.122.117.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C91114EB3 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrens@nortelnetworks.com) Received: from zcars01t by smtprtp.nortel.com; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:32:05 -0400 Received: from hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com by zcars01t; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:31:39 -0400 Received: from hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com (hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com [47.196.31.114]) by hcarp00g.ca.nortel.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA30273 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:32:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew Atrens" Reply-To: "Andrew Atrens" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Once upon a time (was: Matt's Commit status) In-Reply-To: <199906040131.SAA01566@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Matt, -core, et al, Speaking as a long time user of FreeBSD I am continually impressed by the quality of _all_ the people involved, their work and their dedication. I don't pretend to know the burdens of -core, but I do feel strongly that this is the wrong medium for this discussion. As has been stated over and over again - email is an absolutely horrendous method of communication - PLEASE let's let this thread _die_, and take up Jordan on his offer to come together at USENIX. Let me tell you all a long, boring story. Maybe you'll all be so bored you'll let this thread die. :) Here at Nortel I work on a team that has grown from roughly 100 to over 500 in the last three years and is divided roughly 70/30 between Ottawa, Canada and Harlow, UK. In the early days of the project even with the benefit of unlimited phone calls, voice conferences, video conferences, and of course email, a discernable split arose between folks `across the pond'. Though no one would admit it, in subtle ways people were `flipping the bozo bit' with their unseen counterparts. Since as you know its easier to disagree than it is to agree, this led to a fair amount of duplicated effort, and unnecessarily complicated and bloated the code. The solution was simply to put people on planes. Folks in the UK came to Ottawa for weeks at a time, and we went to the UK for similar. It was amazing the difference it made. Once people realized that the person at the other end of the wire wasn't a bozo, and that we all desparately wanted the project to succeed, the barriers melted - and people began looking for ways to agree. Of course we all didn't live happily ever after, no one was totally thrilled with all the design decisions that were made, but in the end we were first to market, with a solid product. Zzzzz... Andrew. -- +-- | Andrew Atrens Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada. | | All opinions expressed are my own, not those of any employer. | --+ Heller's Law: The first myth of management is that it exists. Johnson's Corollary: Nobody really knows what is going on anywhere within the organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:26:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A01A14FA1 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id WAA14583; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA16630; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:22:12 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19531; Thu, 3 Jun 99 22:22:08 PDT Message-Id: <3757627F.B19D3320@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:22:07 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Kenneth Milton Cc: Matthew Dillon , ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906032348.JAA60481@mail.theinternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: > > +----[ Matthew Dillon ]--------------------------------------------- > | > | addressed years ago were left to rot. All that is needed is a reality > | check. > > You want to get Rowdy Roddy Piper on to the core team? d8) No. Jessie "the Hack" Ventura. Of course. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:46:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C370215156 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:46:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA02924; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:35:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906040535.WAA02924@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 (simplified) References: <199906032057.QAA40503@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I had the hunch that the problem I am dealing with related to the unlink :portion of NFS... So I have simplified the code down to this tiny snipet which :will reliably crash the system (I left it running by accident and it brought :my test machine down 3 times before I remembered to kill it :). This is only :3 lines of code, and a for loop to iterate it. : :int main(int argc, char **argv) :{ : int fd; : int counter; : char newfilename[1024]; : : strcpy(newfilename,argv[1]); : strcat(newfilename,".old"); : for(counter=0;counter<1000000;counter++) { : fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); : close(fd); : unlink(argv[1]); : } : return 0; :} : :Again, this appears to need to be run from multiple machines at once to cause :the problem (running from 2 dual-ultra 2s running solaris 2.6 in this case). :I will attempt to reproduce it with FreeBSD clients later today. In the :meantime I am getting down and dirty with the NFS kernel routines. :... :-- :David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu I think you said it was the server that crashed? Are you sure? I know for a fact that it is possible to crash a FreeBSD client when the server ( or another client ) renames-over or unlinks files rapidly that are also being accessed by the client. If it is the server crashing rather then the client we have a new bug. It should still hopefully be relatively easy to locate. Potential races in the server are much more confined ( in regards to areas of the code that might race ) then on the client. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:49:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E9061532C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id WAA14645; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA16912; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:48:50 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA20580; Thu, 3 Jun 99 22:48:47 PDT Message-Id: <375768A3.C556E77C@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:48:19 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906040218.VAA05115@dyson.iquest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > > > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > > > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. > > > > I think where the problem lied is very relevent. > > > > If the problems are not his fault are you saying he should have backed > > out his changes because they exposed old faulty code? What kind of > > progress is that? > > > The key is that if problems are going to be uncovered, then > understanding the rest of the code well enough to fix it > is important. There were not only cases of new or uncovered > bugs, but regression and mistaken removal of features that > weren't understood. All of the stuff requires some kind of > learning curve, and just jumping in and "coding" isn't really > a wise thing to do or allow. > > IMO, revokation of commit privs has given enough time to support > the learning curve and enforce a review process. I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:54:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peterw.yahoo.com (peterw.yahoo.com [206.132.89.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296D115156 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:54:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost.yahoo.com [127.0.0.1]) by peterw.yahoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA01104; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199906040549.WAA01104@peterw.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brian Somers Cc: dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:45:56 BST." <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:49:04 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Somers wrote: > > It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried > > part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. > > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. Well, having been a party to the discussions, I think I can pretty safely say that it wasn't so much a decision based on technical reasons but one based on an attempt at damage control. Tempers were boiling from all sides and things were getting rather ugly and going downhill fast. There was no good solution to the problem, and what was done in the end was (and I still think so) one of the least lousy of a limited set of choices that were even worse. Things had degenerated to the point that no matter what the outcome, it was a no win situation. I think the underlying problems were pretty fundamental and I suspect are still potential problems. I am going to talk about some of them. Keep in mind that these are my opinions, and I hope I'm not being unfair or biased given that I'm talking specficically about Matt's case. First, Matt had a lot of time to spend and the inclination and enthusiasm to do so. While this in itself is not a bad thing, it was a key source of friction between Matt and the other developers. Matt was keen to get things done *right now* and I suspect he found the delays in email communication rather intolerable, but that's the way the project (so far) has managed to keep together - with patience and consensis. A good number of developers *perceived* Matt to be ``running riot'' due to the pace he was going at (and a number complained about it), and toes were getting stomped on all over the place. Second, I got the impression Matt was more used to working alone or with a small, closely bound, group rather than a large distributed global project. Note that neither of these two are necessarily anyone's ``fault'', but more of an incompatability that wasn't being handled particularly well at all by any of the people involved. I still suspect the problems are still there and would be waiting to bite all over again if/when Matt gets commit privs back. I know Matt finds it frustrating working offline and via patches, but keep in mind that most of the developers already do this for larger changes. It's not uncommon at all for diff/patch sets to be posted for testing or work-in-progress snapshots. Unfortunately it's pretty much a necessary evil simply because of the geographic dispersion of people, timetables, timezones, time availability, etc. Some sort of arrangement/understanding/procedure/whatever would need to be worked out to make sure that everybody involved understands everybody's angle so that we don't repeat it all over again. Maybe some of the groundwork can be done at usenix next week, but not all everybody will be there. Anyway, I guess we can see. -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:56:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 812811526C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:56:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 12321 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 05:56:28 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 05:56:28 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA05478; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:56:25 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906040556.AAA05478@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jun 3, 99 07:23:53 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:56:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > And this nonsense in another email about things being untested is also > complete bull. I had a machine dedicated to running test kernels 24 hours > a day. I still do. > Testing on local machines isn't generally sufficient, due to the need for running diverse applications in various environments that are often difficult to simulate. Local machine testing is only sufficient for testing very well understood changes or first level testing before the testing team can review and test the code. > > This is what I mean about rumors turning into supposed facts. The fact > of the matter is that what mistakes I made ( and I would argue that a > certain number of mistakes are unavoidable ) were all minor. > Sum of lots of minor mistakes and oversights (where the side effects are accumulated loss of features and/or optimizations without knowing it) end up being a significant regression in the form of loss of features, decrease in performance or changes in behavior that are difficult to track down. Alot of the code has complex interactions, and until the developer has a complete understanding of the various design choices and the interrelations between subsystems, it is extremely important to carefully regression test the changes. If mistakes are made because of information not being possible to retrieve or the mistakes are due to research and developing new technology, then they are understandable. If mistakes are made because of ignoring available information, and such information can provide enough insight to avoid the mistakes and/or regressions, then that should not ever be deemed to be acceptable. Even if a mistake is "excusable", it is still not desirable to *commit* such changes to a main branch until the new works are characterized and the effects are understood in a significant number of application mixes. Alot of work was previously done to characterize and model application mixes, and that is one reason why FreeBSD has performed so well in the past, and alot of performance regressions were avoided especially considering the amount of code and algorithmic design being newly developed. That sure isn't to say that regressions didn't happen, but the original developers of the code had very little support available in the form of experts in the field, assisting in avoiding the regressions. It was only in the 6mos or so before I left that a support team was slowly being put together by me. With about 1yr of commits ready to go, and being held off because of potential destabilization, I felt it necessary to pull together a group of people that would be willing to work on the code with me and help productize it before letting it loose on the community at large. The days of hack, patch, and commit were over a long time ago, and some kind of QC program was (and is still) needed. > > The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is > when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be rewritten. > I suggest that is the 2nd biggest mistake. The first biggest mistake is that programmers working on a large project sometimes don't quite understand the code that they are working on, and rather than investing in understanding it so that if they choose to correct it or rewrite it, they rewrite it with a superficial understanding, and miss features that had previously existed. I have seen many times (not just on FreeBSD), that programmers will often avoid asking authors of code how it works, and rewrite it with the misconception that they understand it (even thinking that improvements are being made :-(). It is even worse to rewrite it in order to make it "readable", and as a side-effect loose features only to improve readability. Arguments that might claim that the readability is being improved so that future work will be made easier is only valid if the recoding doesn't break anything and the recoding shows that the original design of the code was understood well enough that significant enhancment has a high probability of being worthwhile and successful. Almost every programmer that I know has been guilty of this "sin", and probably happens most often when the programmer has more energy than patience. There is a need for alot of code cleanup in the system, but it is also important to do so in a way that loss of desirable behavior doesn't happen. Alot of the code was written to relentlessly deal with performance and behavior issues that aren't well understood by the community in general. In many cases there are design considerations that are almost insignificant when taken alone, but the cumulative improvement in behavior accrues rapidly. Many times an improvement in total performance is a result of improvement of apparently unrelated subsystems as an *intended* side-effect. When significant rewrites of sections of code are contemplated, I suggest avoiding a waste in time, and avoiding a wasteful and potentially devisive vested interest in a subproject that might end up creating an unintended regression in the system behavior. A good way to avoid the lossage would be to ask for conceptual reviews before coding is started. Such reviews can transpire either in informal email or by phone discussions. Even if the original changes could provide a net improvement in performance or behavior, there is a possibility that some additional improvements being a result of collaborative discussion. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 22:58:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2953F1526C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 14391 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 05:58:34 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 05:58:34 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA05488; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:58:32 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906040558.AAA05488@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040549.WAA01104@peterw.yahoo.com> from Peter Wemm at "Jun 3, 99 10:49:04 pm" To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:58:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Some sort of arrangement/understanding/procedure/whatever would need to be > worked out to make sure that everybody involved understands everybody's > angle so that we don't repeat it all over again. Maybe some of the > groundwork can be done at usenix next week, but not all everybody will be > there. Anyway, I guess we can see. > I am convinced that Matt is a net gain for FreeBSD, and some brilliant and creative solution to the patience/turn around issues would likely be welcome :-). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 23: 4:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC3015435 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA25362; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:04:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:04:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: reviews X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14167.27595.38162.324946@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peanut comment: As long as you get all the reviews done before a snap, I don't see any reason not to pipeline the process by letting commits procede before review. They can be backed out/revised, after all. In commercial projects this is usually considered bad when you have external dependents, like QA snapshots, but that shouldn't make it an item of universal dogma. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 23:38:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564C71543C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:38:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27939; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906040636.XAA27939@implode.root.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:48:19 MDT." <375768A3.C556E77C@softweyr.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:36:00 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> IMO, revokation of commit privs has given enough time to support >> the learning curve and enforce a review process. > >I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems >to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a >branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for >Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times >when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately >reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. > >Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? >This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) It sounds good at first, but sounds less so when you actually have to merge the branches - this can be very difficult to do when lots of time has gone by, especially when various (software) interface/infrustructure changes have been made to both branches. They only way it would work would be if the time differential were kept very short (perhaps one month or less). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 23:47: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E7891543C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 28617 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 06:47:02 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 06:47:02 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA05658; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:46:49 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906040646.BAA05658@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040636.XAA27939@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Jun 3, 99 11:36:00 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:46:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> IMO, revokation of commit privs has given enough time to support > >> the learning curve and enforce a review process. > > > >I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems > >to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a > >branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for > >Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times > >when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately > >reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. > > > >Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? > >This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) > > It sounds good at first, but sounds less so when you actually have to merge > the branches - this can be very difficult to do when lots of time has gone > by, especially when various (software) interface/infrustructure changes have > been made to both branches. They only way it would work would be if the time > differential were kept very short (perhaps one month or less). > It would be good to somehow come up with a creative scheme that would statisfy Matts patience issues and get the code out so that it can be tested and used before committing the code to the "real" tree. I do understand Matt's issues regarding waiting for people to review code, but things would also work better if changes are "reviewed" before they are coded. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 3 23:51:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DC25A1543C for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 87272 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 06:51:28 +0000 (GMT) To: jplevyak@inktomi.com Cc: lab@gta.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible conflict in nameser.h From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:21:04 -0700" References: <19990603162104.C8565@tsdev.inktomi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:51:28 +0200 Message-ID: <87270.928479088@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have found a small problem in nameser.h in the ns_rr structure. > > This structure has a member named class that causes a compilation > > problem if you include nameser.h into C++. I suspect that I may be > > the only person to ever hit up against this (:. Any comments before > > I summit a bug report? > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Larry Baird > > Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL > > Email: lab@gta.com | TEL 407-380-0220, FAX 407-380-6080 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > I have hit this 'bug'. I have a patch: This is fixed in BIND-8.2.1, currently in beta testing. (The struct member is renamed to rr_class instead of just _class.) Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 0: 9:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F75E1509E for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22787; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37577B9F.93DB3DD0@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 01:09:19 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Plevyak Cc: lab@gta.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible conflict in nameser.h References: <375707D7.CBE3586B@gta.com> <19990603162104.C8565@tsdev.inktomi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Plevyak wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 06:55:19PM -0400, Larry Baird wrote: > > I have found a small problem in nameser.h in the ns_rr structure. > > This structure has a member named class that causes a compilation > > problem if you include nameser.h into C++. I suspect that I may be > > the only person to ever hit up against this (:. Any comments before > > I summit a bug report? > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Larry Baird > > Global Technology Associates, Inc. | Orlando, FL > > Email: lab@gta.com | TEL 407-380-0220, FAX 407-380-6080 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > I have hit this 'bug'. I have a patch: > > Index: include/arpa/nameser.h > =================================================================== > RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/src/include/arpa/nameser.h,v > retrieving revision 1.12 > diff -c -r1.12 nameser.h > *** nameser.h 1998/06/11 08:55:15 1.12 > --- nameser.h 1999/03/03 18:53:23 > *************** > *** 140,146 **** > typedef struct __ns_rr { > char name[NS_MAXDNAME]; /* XXX need to malloc */ > u_int16_t type; > ! u_int16_t class; > u_int32_t ttl; > u_int16_t rdlength; > const u_char *rdata; > --- 140,146 ---- > typedef struct __ns_rr { > char name[NS_MAXDNAME]; /* XXX need to malloc */ > u_int16_t type; > ! u_int16_t _class; > u_int32_t ttl; > u_int16_t rdlength; > const u_char *rdata; > *************** > *** 149,155 **** > /* Accessor macros - this is part of the public interface. */ > #define ns_rr_name(rr) (((rr).name[0] != '\0') ? (rr).name : ".") > #define ns_rr_type(rr) ((rr).type + 0) > ! #define ns_rr_class(rr) ((rr).class + 0) > #define ns_rr_ttl(rr) ((rr).ttl + 0) > #define ns_rr_rdlen(rr) ((rr).rdlength + 0) > #define ns_rr_rdata(rr) ((rr).rdata + 0) > --- 149,155 ---- > /* Accessor macros - this is part of the public interface. */ > #define ns_rr_name(rr) (((rr).name[0] != '\0') ? (rr).name : ".") > #define ns_rr_type(rr) ((rr).type + 0) > ! #define ns_rr_class(rr) ((rr)._class + 0) > #define ns_rr_ttl(rr) ((rr).ttl + 0) > #define ns_rr_rdlen(rr) ((rr).rdlength + 0) > #define ns_rr_rdata(rr) ((rr).rdata + 0) > Index: lib/libc/net/ns_parse.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/src/lib/libc/net/ns_parse.c,v > retrieving revision 1.1 > diff -c -r1.1 ns_parse.c > *** ns_parse.c 1998/06/11 09:02:40 1.1 > --- ns_parse.c 1999/03/04 19:00:06 > *************** > *** 160,166 **** > NS_GET16(rr->type, handle->_ptr); > if (handle->_ptr + NS_INT16SZ > handle->_eom) > goto emsgsize; > ! NS_GET16(rr->class, handle->_ptr); > if (section == ns_s_qd) { > rr->ttl = 0; > rr->rdlength = 0; > --- 160,166 ---- > NS_GET16(rr->type, handle->_ptr); > if (handle->_ptr + NS_INT16SZ > handle->_eom) > goto emsgsize; > ! NS_GET16(rr->_class, handle->_ptr); > if (section == ns_s_qd) { > rr->ttl = 0; > rr->rdlength = 0; > > I would be appreciative if someone could check this in/fix it in > some other way. Sadly, just slapping extern "C" {} around it doesn't help. Have you done a "make world" to see what breaks? Personally, I don't like the _class nomenclature, I'd rather see qclass or something of that sort; a leading _ generally implies something buried in the bowels of the implementation. I also worry about breaking any ports that use low- level features of the resolver. All in all, an ulgy little problem you've brought up here. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 0:31:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D858014E42 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22851; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <375780D4.1A3D1664@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 01:31:32 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906040636.XAA27939@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > > >> IMO, revokation of commit privs has given enough time to support > >> the learning curve and enforce a review process. > > > >I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems > >to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a > >branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for > >Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times > >when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately > >reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. > > > >Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? > >This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) > > It sounds good at first, but sounds less so when you actually have to merge > the branches - this can be very difficult to do when lots of time has gone > by, especially when various (software) interface/infrustructure changes have > been made to both branches. They only way it would work would be if the time > differential were kept very short (perhaps one month or less). I was thinking of shorter time frames than that. We often have branches that live just long enough to implement a single feature, sometimes only a few days. It helps that we use Perforce, which has a very fast lightweight branching mechanism, but the same strategy has been used with CVS on past projects. The idea here is to create a branch for an individual feature, turn on commits to that branch for generally anyone who wants to participate, and the have the branch available for review before merging it into the main development line. One of the requirements before the final merge is that the branch has been updated from the mainline and tested for 24 hours before the merge is OK'd. I know this seems like a lot of overhead, but it seems like SOME of the projects Matt is working on really need this flexbility, not because Matt is doing them but because they are gut-wrenching changes to the system and a mechanism needs to be created for several developers and (hopefully) numerous testers to share the work among each other in an environment where they're not continually breaking the system for other development work. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 1:26:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EC9153B2 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23529; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:26:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00510; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:13:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199906040813.JAA00510@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Brian Somers , dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:23:53 PDT." <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:13:30 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> It wasn't the "dark side" of core, it was the panic'ed and worried > :> part of core that was seeing things happening without careful review. > : > :The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > :instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > :The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. > : > :-- > :Brian > > This is silly. The system was not becoming unstable due to my commits. > Where'd you get that from? > > I might have occassionally glitched something for a day or two. I think > I broke build world once, blew write efficiency temporarily one time, > and of the asserts added I recall only one or two panics that were due > to an incorrect assert, and serveral that were due to unrelated bugs > uncovered by the assert ( i.e. the assert did its job ). There might have > been minor problems with 'pstat' output after the VM switchover due to > the new swapper. We broke madvise() once or twice but that doesn't > count because it was already badly broken before we tried to fix it, and > we found several bugs in the course of trying to fix it. Not much else. > Considering the amount of code committed I'd say that's a pretty good > record. Most people blow things up committing just a few lines of code. Sure, and I'm no exception. I'm actually referring to my personal environment. I have a ``last release'' box used for things link 'net connectivity, storing company accounts etc etc. As it happens, this box is an nfs server, providing filesystems for distfiles, home directories and that sort of thing. 3.0-release and 3.1-release could not do the NFS side of things. I now have a -stable machine (I may go back to 3.2-release) because it was the only way to defeat the problem. I'm sure that the fact that -release ended up with such obvious instabilities was out of your control (IMHO RELENG_3 shouldn't have been dubbed -stable 'till 3.2 was tagged), but I'd bet that this did FreeBSDs public image some serious damage. I've had to say to many people since ``wait for 3.2 - don't install 2.* because the upgrade is to difficult and don't install 3.1 if you want nfs''. [.....] > This is what I mean about rumors turning into supposed facts. The fact > of the matter is that what mistakes I made ( and I would argue that a > certain number of mistakes are unavoidable ) were all minor. Point to > one major mistake! The only alternative would have been to not touch > the code at all, meaning that nothing would have gotten fixed or made > more maintainable. A lot of the rewrites that supposedly contained no > meaningful fixes actually do: They make the code more readable in > preparation for future changes coming down the line. There is a point > where emplacing a hack on top of a hack on top of a hack leads to > diminishing returns and rewrite is necessary to reset the clock. I > would argue that a good chunk of the code I rewrote ( which itself is only > a portion of the commits made ) fall into that category. > > The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is > when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be rewritten. > For a case in point you need look no further then the buffer cache and > device I/O code. It's so messed up that even I could only add hacks to > portions of it to implement necessary VM pager functions properly, but > I sure do not intend those hacks to remain in there forever! The I/O > subsystem is a holy mess. The only reason I'm not working on it right now > is because I think Poul is intending to work on it later in the year. I buy into this argument whole-heartedly, but I also agree with what John D reckons about understanding the code and doing the requisite amount and type of testing. I'm a case-in-point with the ppp stuff. I can't say that I've actually understood *all* the code 'till about 2 months ago, and even then, my layering commit of about a month ago introduced about 7 or 8 distinct bugs (although I can't claim that they weren't my bugs). This wasn't even due to a lack of knowledge but was due to the wrong sort of testing. But, the end result is that I can now bring ppp into the kernel in a way that supports Multi-link, does demand-dialing properly (unlike the pppd hack) and does synchronous stuff properly (fairwell sppp). Same thing, different scale, and of course people are a lot more forgiving because none of it has been MFCd. > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 1:26:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.128.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC071543F for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23532; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:26:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00520; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:14:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199906040814.JAA00520@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Brian Somers , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , Matthew Dillon , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:51:39 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:14:00 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Brian Somers wrote: > > > The system was becoming unstable due to Matts changes. Whether the > > instabilities were in Matts code or somewhere else is irrelevent. > > The reaction was (IMHO) the right thing to do. > > I think where the problem lied is very relevent. > > If the problems are not his fault are you saying he should have backed > out his changes because they exposed old faulty code? What kind of > progress is that? I'm not saying he should have backed out his changes, I'm saying that they shouldn't have been made - that's why removing the commit bit was the right move. And just to head off the inevitable follow-up; for more trivial code, such a hostile reaction isn't necessary. There are lots of people around that can just fix the code, with the side-effect of giving the coder a subtle slap on the wrist. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 1:56:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE0E15138 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA59282; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:54:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brian Somers Cc: Matthew Dillon , dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:13:30 BST." <199906040813.JAA00510@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 01:54:44 -0700 Message-ID: <59278.928486484@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm sure that the fact that -release ended up with such obvious > instabilities was out of your control (IMHO RELENG_3 shouldn't have > been dubbed -stable 'till 3.2 was tagged), but I'd bet that this did Just a side comment on this - there was tremendous flammage that the RELENG_3 branch wasn't created with 3.0 and when 3.1 came out, the most frequently asked question I got was "when are you going to fucking branch already?" My point is that you very definitely cannot please everyone all of the time. Do it quick and some will scream. Do it slow and others will scream. Either way, you're getting screamed at. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 2: 7:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ucsd.edu (mag.ucsd.edu [132.239.34.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CEDA15AF0 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@mag.ucsd.edu) Received: (from billh@localhost) by mag.ucsd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14437; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:02:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Huey Message-Id: <199906040902.CAA14437@mag.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: billh@mag.ucsd.edu (Bill Huey), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <375768A3.C556E77C@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Jun 3, 99 11:48:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems > to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a > branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for > Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times > when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately > reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. > > Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? > This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) It's been rumored that CVS itself is the technical factor limiting one's ability to fork the tree because of the nature of how CVS update files by clobbering them. I had a talk to someone the the #freebsd IRC channel about this. The name slips my mind right now. bill > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 2:12: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92ADB14DC7 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA59445; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:08:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brian Somers Cc: Bill Fumerola , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , Matthew Dillon , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:14:00 BST." <199906040814.JAA00520@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 02:08:26 -0700 Message-ID: <59440.928487306@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not saying he should have backed out his changes, I'm saying that > they shouldn't have been made - that's why removing the commit bit > was the right move. Let me just explain something here which I think may either make Matt happier or less so, depending on his priorities. :) Matt's commit bit was NOT removed due to the technical nature or quality of his work. Yes, there were many concerns expressed about the pace of his changes and the review process for (which, I actually must concur with Matt, is largely ineffective in some respects, so much so for many things that I no longer even bother to solicit review for them since I *know* that nobody is even going to give it the most minimal attempt), but this was not the "breaking issue" that caused us to take a big step backward for a rethink. It was an issue of personality clashes and Matt's personal differences with a few people in core that inevitably led to the decision. There are a lot of people in and outside of core who are frankly a royal pain in the ass to deal with (we put the "fun" back in dysfunctional) and, come the revolution, they'll probably be first up against the wall and shot. Nonetheless, this is the hand we've been dealt and we have to work together and make the best of it no matter what the various personality issues are since the alternative is a much worse blow-up and all the dire consequences which come from that (let's all not forget how OpenBSD first started, shall we?). Matt feels that we're overly tolerant and/or thick-skinned when it comes to our own shortcomings, and perhaps he's right in principle, but as a *practical* matter I think we're doing no more or less than what we have to just in order to work together over the long term. We don't have to always like it, we just have to make it work and make it work in such a way that most of us will still be here in another year's time. The analogy I like to use is that of family - you can choose your friends, but you don't get to choose your family and that's what makes large family get-togethers the fun-filled affairs that they so often are. Nonetheless, for a lot of good reasons, it's worth trying to make it work anyway and not simply get the shotgun out of the closet to blast cousin Earl into next week, even though it would be so deeply satisfying to do so. Matt's failure was that he gave in to that temptation and discharged buckshot into more than a few rear-ends, making it necessary to cross him off the guest list for the next christmas dinner. :-) I think (HOPE) we've all learned from the experience, however, and we can see how our next family picnic (USENIX) turns out. As usual, conducting such discussions in person is far more productive than attempting to discuss potentially sensitive matters over email. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 5: 5:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF4D14DD1 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id VAA29429 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:05:08 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id VAA09505 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:05:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id VAA11360 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:03:57 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906041203.VAA11360@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: Subject: Re: Kernel config script Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:03:57 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > You see, some folks in Japan went off on their own and developed a > "newconfig", which has a lot fo things in common with the work that > Peter's gone and done, but also has some basic differences. They worked > pretty much totally in silence. so when core told Peter to go ahead, the > Japanese group *finally* opened their mouth, and there have been a lot > of very hurt feelings, because of the large amount of work that was > expended, and now is going to be lost. Yes, "newconfig was developed in silence" is true. But what about new-bus? I searched the mailing list archive of -current and -hackers from this January to March. I found **ONLY TWO** articles(*1) that includes the word "new-bus". There had been NO information about "new-bus project" or "new-bus mailing list" on the FreeBSD Project page (*2). I think new-bus people should post "current status of new-bus" to -current and -hackers more often. *1: Message-Id: <199902150232.VAA07896@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: *2: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/projects.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 5:10:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD9214E83 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10psnz-0003Qy-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:10:35 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:03:57 +0900." <199906041203.VAA11360@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:10:35 +0200 Message-ID: <13203.928498235@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Still no sight of land. How long is it?" "'Ave we started again, then?" *yawn* Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 5:29: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D81191507E for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 4858 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 12:28:55 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 12:28:55 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA06346; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:28:49 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906041228.HAA06346@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <59278.928486484@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 4, 99 01:54:44 am" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:28:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm sure that the fact that -release ended up with such obvious > > instabilities was out of your control (IMHO RELENG_3 shouldn't have > > been dubbed -stable 'till 3.2 was tagged), but I'd bet that this did > > Just a side comment on this - there was tremendous flammage that the > RELENG_3 branch wasn't created with 3.0 and when 3.1 came out, the > most frequently asked question I got was "when are you going to > fucking branch already?" > > My point is that you very definitely cannot please everyone all of the > time. Do it quick and some will scream. Do it slow and others will > scream. Either way, you're getting screamed at. > There are a couple of kinds of errors that can happen with hasty (not Amancio :-)) code changes... The most insidious kind of problem is when various newly created problems cascade without being detected or controlled. As the new problems or regressions accumlate, those problems become progressively more difficult to unwind and recover from. This can become extremely difficult when features (or desirable behaviors) are lost and new, orthogonal features are added either simultaneously or in quick succession. The straight forward and obvious "it doesn't work", or "it has gotten terribly slow all of a sudden" are both really easy to deal with compared with other manifestions of code damage. It is the "the system worked better in FreeBSD VX.Y and we cannot figure out which of the changes make the system act differently in odd ways" that is the real intellectual challenge. Minor "it's broken" problems aren't what I have been most worried about -- those can be fixed, often without a detailed understanding of the code and how the various pieces interoperate. What needs to be carefully reviewed and watched are the cumulative changes and the negative effects due to a cascade of unintended side effects and removed features. Alot of the individual "features" in the code aren't dot items that can be placed on marketing literature. Some of the more interesting features in the code are a result of multiple individual behaviors designed into the code with purpose that work together to produce the set of behaviors that have been historically known as FreeBSD's generally superior performance. (Not that FreeBSD's behavior is perfect, but there is some historical work that I have always been willing to help people working on the code understand and take advantage of.) There is absolutely no reason why fixing the straight forward bugs, not so straight forward bugs, or cleaning up the way that the source looks in any way need to normally have signficant (or stealthy) negative side effects. It is clear that it is very difficult to make substantial modifications to the complex code in the system without unintended side-effects, and it is very unwise to avoid consulting with individuals who might have a different (or longer term and/or historical) view as to how the various sub-systems work. When DG and I were creating the original behaviors that have historically been associated with the FreeBSD type performance, it would have been wonderful to have had lots of support offered and committed from those people who had significant experience with the original code and understanding of other superior algorithms and techniques. Recently, a year or so before I left, I had started getting help from Alan Cox , and his help was greatly appreciated by me, and I always tried to credit his work as well as resonable (he is indeed an individual who I very seriously respect.) Frankly, his understanding of major sections of the code is often beyond my own (it is difficult for me to precisely evaluate it, but his observations have been quite impressive, and his work has shown understanding much beyond the surface.) I suggest that embracing other "experts" input is a desirable behavior, because no-one that I have seen on the team (either core or contributors) is so expert as to never need input and help. Frankly, utilizing me for input on certain parts of the code only after waiting until the problem is out of control (either feature having been removed without knowing or a solution has been created that would have been done better or easier with input from others) is misuse or nonuse of a potentially valuable resource. No-one is infallable, but being able to admit fallability and use input from others to mitigate effects of ones own limitations is critical when working on complex packages such as embodied in the FreeBSD memory and I/O mgmt code. None of the stuff is perfect, but just because there are problems here and there doesn't mean that those who created the works didn't understand them. In fact, some of the "suboptimal" behavior might have been as a result of a tradeoff that isn't obvious from a superficial code review. Alot of the work done by DG and me was original, and often created relatively from scratch, with requirements and goals very different from equivalent works of the time. If we had a blueprint to work from (or if we wanted to create another system that acted like all of the others), then the work would have been much easier, and would have been much less complex. I have indeed found that ALC (who is at least in some areas as competent or more so that me) is sometimes willing to use me for review or ideas, because it is apparent that he recognizes that even extremely competent people can gain from others (even less experienced) insight. I suggest that a FreeBSD culture be nurtured that encourages collaboration and cooperation, and encourage healthy egos by recognizing that even experts don't stand alone and aren't as effective in creative endeavours if they try to do it all themselves. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 6:46:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.svr.vastnet.net (mail.svr.vastnet.net [207.252.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC8D14E09 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 06:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port50.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.50]) by mail.svr.vastnet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA19158; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:44:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199906041344.JAA19158@mail.svr.vastnet.net> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:46:34 -0400 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Brian Somers From: Dennis Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Cc: Matthew Dillon , dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com (Amancio Hasty), crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu In-Reply-To: <59278.928486484@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >My point is that you very definitely cannot please everyone all of the >time. Do it quick and some will scream. Do it slow and others will >scream. Either way, you're getting screamed at. > >- Jordan Just part of the developer's experience. DB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 7: 6:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6471914D1A for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:06:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA50791; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906041406.KAA50791@cs.rpi.edu> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 (simplified) In-Reply-To: Message from Matthew Dillon of "Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:35:03 PDT." <199906040535.WAA02924@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:06:23 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes, I am *very* certain that it is the server that is crashing. The test server in question has no user login-able accounts at all, and is only running nfsd/mountd/portmap. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 7:57:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735BD14F52 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA007643019; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 06:43:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 06:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Motoyuki Konno Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script In-Reply-To: <199906041203.VAA11360@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Motoyuki Konno wrote: > But what about new-bus? newbus was well announced. any FreeBSD committer was extended newbus commit privledges as well. The cvs tree was public as well. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 8: 8:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (unknown [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8E614F52 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA18174; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:08:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA27044; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:08:03 -0600 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:08:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ None of the below is assumed to be taken as reflecting any situation that occurred in FreeBSD. This is a *common* problem that exists in every software program, and any reflection on what happened in FreeBSD is by coincedence in that it's a software program. My comments apply as easily to my situation with the laptop support changes I made as it done to *any* other portion of the system. ] > The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is > when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be > rewritten. Most good software engineering books would disagree with you. The *BIGGEST* mistake the most programmers make is re-writing functional code to conform to their style of programming, rather than understand why the original programmers did it the way they did it. NIH is *FAR* too common of a problem. Bugs *rarely* require a complete re-write of the code. This isn't to say that often-times it's *easier* to just re-write it from scratch than it is to understand what the original code was doing in the first place, but this often leads to errors that were fixed by the original authors in a non-obvious manner being brought back in. The above problem is almost always a problem with the original author not doing a proper job of documenting the work, but it doesn't justify ripping everything out and starting over from scratch. I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. It's great fun, and it allows the person to feel better about the system, themselves, and make sure that they can debug the existing code better. I do it all the time. But, I know for a fact that it's rarely the right thing to do, especially when the folks who 'went before me' aren't 1st year CS students, but are seasoned professionals who have a clue and didn't do things on a whim. Almost *ALL* of the BSD kernel code (and most of the userland code as well) falls into the class of code that is written by seasoned professionals. They are not infallible, but they almost always have a reason for why they did things the way they did. Does it mean you should never re-write entire portions of code? Of course not, but it should never be taken lightly, and *IF* the original programmers are there and willing (and capable) to explain things to you, then that should be taken advantage of, and not ignored. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 8:42:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBE0415491 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA05300 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906041542.LAA05300@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:39:18 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: Continuing 3.x woes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There seems to be a socket-level problem with 3.x...I havent tested it in 3.1 yet but I do see it in 3.2. 2 Freebsd boxes connected back to back...one is 2.2.8 and the other is 3.2. The 2.2.8 machine is pinging the 3.2 machine...the link is brought down. The 2.2.8 machine starts printing "sendto: network down" messages until the 3.2 machine is brought back up, and then pinging resumes normally. However, when pinging from the 3.2 machine, the 2.2.8 machine is brought down and the 3.2 machine just stops (no messages as if it doesnt detect the link down)....then when the 2.2.8 machine is brought back up the ping does not resume. A new ping session from the 3.2 box works normally indicating the the link is working properly. It seems that something was done, perhaps to eliminate the "Sendto" messages that keeps applications from coming back up if the link goes down and comes back up. This is pretty bad if major network services exhibit the same behaviour. Anyone have any ideas? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 8:49:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A84F1595A for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA09490; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:48:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill Huey Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906040902.CAA14437@mag.ucsd.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 04 Jun 1999 17:48:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Huey's message of "Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:02:10 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Huey writes: > It's been rumored that CVS itself is the technical factor limiting one's > ability to fork the tree because of the nature of how CVS update files > by clobbering them. That is correct. Creating branches in CVS is very expensive. > I had a talk to someone the the #freebsd IRC channel about this. The name > slips my mind right now. Almost certainly EE (Eivind Eklund). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 9: 7: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333CD154AC for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: from whistle.com (crab.whistle.com [207.76.205.112]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA34955 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11017 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:06:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199906041606.JAA11017@whistle.com> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jun 4, 99 09:08:03 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:06:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams writes: | I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out | and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. | It's great fun, and it allows the person to feel better about the | system, themselves, and make sure that they can debug the existing code | better. I do it all the time. But, I know for a fact that it's rarely I guess you don't really know me. I've always taken great pleasure in fixing other peoples code. That is, examine their code and style, figure out their concepts and then guess at mistakes in their concept. Code is just an implementation of concepts with a style. This is how I developed my bag of tricks and learnt from others. I also like code without coments, it forces me to understand the actual written code and derive the concept from it vs. assuming the concept that has been described. Comments for me are to describe "black magic" ie. bizare side-effect/hardware bugs. A fun challenge was porting clisp to the Alpha, it had German variable and comments and did some really made some interesting assumptions on pointers. The only thing in English was the 'C' language. It was a lot of fun and I learnt a lot. Now the challenge is anticipate errors by looking at the least amount of code by picking up the style and concepts. Sure I make mistakes but that's how I get better and learn. Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit strange atleast my wife agress with that, now my daughter we'll see. Doug (hates looking at a blank editor saying where to start) A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 9:14:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (unknown [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2917814DCE for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18703; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA27343; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:14:03 -0600 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:14:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199906041614.KAA27343@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906041606.JAA11017@whistle.com> References: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> <199906041606.JAA11017@whistle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > | I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out > | and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. > | It's great fun, and it allows the person to feel better about the > | system, themselves, and make sure that they can debug the existing code > | better. I do it all the time. But, I know for a fact that it's rarely > > I guess you don't really know me. I've always taken great pleasure in > fixing other peoples code. Does that mean you *don't* like writing your own code from scratch? I never said that people don't *also* enjoy figuring out other people's code, but it's often *much* less fun when you are the person responsible for maintaining it long-term. > I also like code without coments, it forces me to understand the actual > written code and derive the concept from it vs. assuming the concept that > has been described. Comments for me are to describe "black magic" ie. > bizare side-effect/hardware bugs. *Ewww* You *are* a special guy, aren't you. *grin* I need comments in my own code because I look at so much code nowadays that I forgot even why *I* did things at a later point. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 9:19:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE0914D34 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id BAA01154; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:19:03 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id BAA29896; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:19:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id BAA12017; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:17:25 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906041617.BAA12017@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Motoyuki Konno , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel config script X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 01:17:25 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > But what about new-bus? > > newbus was well announced. any FreeBSD committer was extended newbus > commit privledges as well. The cvs tree was public as well. I think the new-bus CVS repository was made public on Apr 11, 1999. From January 1999 to March 1999, there were very few (**only two** articles!) information about new-bus on -current, -hackers. # On April 1999, new-bus imported to FreeBSD source codes. Some newconfig people (I'm not a newconfig member) displeased with this situation, and told me "Was the new-bus really developped openly?" I could not say "new-bus is open" because I knew the fact (very few info on -current, -hackers). In the FreeBSD development, big changes (such as CAM and new-bus) separately from the mainstream of FreeBSD development at first. The discussion also separate from -current and -hackers. So, average FreeBSD developpers may feel difficult to get the information about "the big change project". What I want to say is: "More information to -current and/or -hackers, to avoid unhappy situation like new-bus vs. newconfig" -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 9:21:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C8014D77 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17312; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:20:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:18:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: dg@root.com, wes@softweyr.com, dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040646.BAA05658@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >I've been following this conversation with growing concern. It seems > > >to me there is a fairly simple solution to this problem: create a > > >branch for the ongoing VM work, enable commit privs on the branch for > > >Matt and anyone else who's going to join in the fun, and then at times > > >when they think it is appropriate and things have been adequately > > >reviewed, we have a little merge-mania and things are better than ever. > > > > > >Are there any technological boundaries that prevent us from doing this? > > >This is how we do it in the paid-for-code world. ;^) > > > > It sounds good at first, but sounds less so when you actually have to merge > > the branches - this can be very difficult to do when lots of time has gone > > by, especially when various (software) interface/infrustructure changes have > > been made to both branches. They only way it would work would be if the time > > differential were kept very short (perhaps one month or less). > > > It would be good to somehow come up with a creative scheme that would > statisfy Matts patience issues and get the code out so that it can be tested > and used before committing the code to the "real" tree. I do understand > Matt's issues regarding waiting for people to review code, but things would > also work better if changes are "reviewed" before they are coded. I agree- to a point. Having been involved in a large number of different engineering "process" efforts at many companies, I can sympathize with all aspects to this problem. It's more difficult with FreeBSD because there's a notion of joint ownership for all who contribute. I would suggest that, all in all, a more active 'core' group that directs overall strategies and directs branches for major commits, might be the best mix here- along with folks actually doing real metrics to prove or disprove their assertions about the effects of VM and buffer cache things. All of this with a bit of looseness that has occurred up until now (not having things wired down has been a good thing, on balance). In terms of design reviews and architecture *before* the commit, well, if you want to go that route I can assure you it's a major amount of work. It will bring FreeBSD into "adult" development- no large scale project with > 50 engineers really succeeds long term without it, but are you really wanting to the tbings of: MRD (Market Requirement Document), External Reference Spec, Internal Reference Spec, Test Plan, Architecture Review, Implementation Review, *Commit*, Test, Release, Post Mortem Review..... -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 9:25:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3AA15491 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17325; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:22:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:19:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Brian Somers , Matthew Dillon , dyson@iquest.net, Amancio Hasty , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <59278.928486484@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My point is that you very definitely cannot please everyone all of the > time. Do it quick and some will scream. Do it slow and others will > scream. Either way, you're getting screamed at. Yes, keep this in mind, folks. This is why there is a high mortality rate for core members of these organizations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 11:11: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from couatl.palefire.org (couatl.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C7C15100 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:10:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@palefire.org) Received: by couatl.palefire.org (Postfix, from userid 30209) id DD7CCBDC4; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:10:58 -0500 (CDT) To: freebsd hackers Subject: statinfo.cp_time for smp? From: stephen farrell Date: 04 Jun 1999 13:10:58 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070084 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84) XEmacs/21.0(beta67) (20 minutes to Nikko) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any way to get cpu usage on a per-cpu basis? statinfo.cp_time seems to only give info about one CPU (or else averages both?) Of course I have the worthwhile goal of seeing CPU activity on both CPU's with xcpustate =) -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 11:22:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC26E15432 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA96915; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Matthew Dillon , brian@Awfulhak.org, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906040556.AAA05478@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > I suggest that is the 2nd biggest mistake. The first biggest mistake is that > programmers working on a large project sometimes don't quite understand > the code that they are working on, and rather than investing in understanding > it so that if they choose to correct it or rewrite it, they rewrite it with > a superficial understanding, and miss features that had previously existed. John, that's true, but you didn't stress the fact of there being so many interdependencies in the memory system. Once you begin to make deltas away from our present model, it becomes increasingly harder and harder, when something goes wrong, not only to track down what was the real culprit, but even to try to add back in some previous parts. That's why you always tested the bejesus out of things, because the testing of VM is so terribly difficult to interpret, and so easy to break. I *love* the idea of new things being tested in VM. How come we can't give Matt his own cvs play area, something akin to what the newbus had in it's (amazingly short) infancy. He could make all the changes he wants, as fast as he wants, it would attract testers, but it would not break current. If it brought new features in, great. If it never got anywhere, it would harness Matt's energy the way he wants, and cool down the controversy. Matt is, everyone will agree, quite a different fellow, and maybe deserves this special handling; I would think it to be well worth the expenditure of resources. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 12: 1:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 211BB15122 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@acm.org) Received: (qmail 25083 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 09:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:18:56 +1000 From: Greg Black To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> In-reply-to: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> of Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:35:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "David E. Cross" writes: > fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. Generally speaking, it's a good idea to make sure that test code is at least decent before starting to puzzle over what it does. -- Greg Black -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 12: 5:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B771506F for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 769 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jun 1999 19:05:21 +0000 (GMT) To: gjb@acm.org Cc: crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:18:56 +1000" References: <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:05:21 +0200 Message-ID: <767.928523121@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "David E. Cross" writes: > > > fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); > > Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not > to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by > that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. That may be the case, but it shouldn't panic the machine. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 12:29:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8C415ABA for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA49373; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Nate Williams Cc: Matthew Dillon , dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Nate Williams wrote: > > > The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is > > when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be > > rewritten. > > Most good software engineering books would disagree with you. The > *BIGGEST* mistake the most programmers make is re-writing functional > code to conform to their style of programming, rather than understand > why the original programmers did it the way they did it. On the other hand there comes a time when so many patches have been applied, in an attempt to not modify more than a small part of the code that it starts to become inefficient and hard to understand. it is well known that tungn code can usually only get small improvements but that a a HUGE improvement is likely to come from a breakthrough in the way in whichthe problem is envisioned, leading to a completely new way of tackling the problem. There is MUCH of the present Kernel that falls into this category. > > NIH is *FAR* too common of a problem. Bugs *rarely* require a complete > re-write of the code. NIH is not the same as "Hey I can do this in a differn t way in half the time/code". NIH is "I can do the same thing with about the same result, so I will". > > This isn't to say that often-times it's *easier* to just re-write it > from scratch than it is to understand what the original code was doing > in the first place, but this often leads to errors that were fixed by > the original authors in a non-obvious manner being brought back in. A totally different approach often avoids those problems entirely. Especially if the original authors bothered to comment them, because the new aproach was developed with them in mind. (of course it can raise nerw problems). > > The above problem is almost always a problem with the original author > not doing a proper job of documenting the work, but it doesn't justify > ripping everything out and starting over from scratch. true, though I'd add that sometimes the "patched index" of code does get so high that it does justify a rewrite. > > I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out > and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. > It's great fun, and it allows the person to feel better about the > system, themselves, and make sure that they can debug the existing code > better. I do it all the time. But, I know for a fact that it's rarely > the right thing to do, especially when the folks who 'went before me' > aren't 1st year CS students, but are seasoned professionals who have a > clue and didn't do things on a whim. I think that the advantage of experience is knowing WHEN to do so. This is a judgement call, that can only be made by peole who see: 1/ the old cohde, and understand it. 2/ the new algorythm, and see how it can be implemented. Anyone who can't see both sides cannot make that call and should BUTT OUT. > > Almost *ALL* of the BSD kernel code (and most of the userland code as > well) falls into the class of code that is written by seasoned > professionals. They are not infallible, but they almost always have a > reason for why they did things the way they did. Very true. THey had a reason in 1988 and part of our decision is to evaluate how valid those reasons are now. In 1988, the kernel consumed 300K of a 4 MB machine, or, about 10% of physical RAM. In 1999 a kernel may consume between 2MB of an 8MB machine and 8MB of a 512 MB machine (or between 25% and 2%). In 1988 the processor wascapable of doing 8 operation sduring a memory cache miss. In 1997 it was capable of doing about 50, and in 1999 it's capable of doing about 30 with new fast RAMs. In 1988 the average appliction process size was 200K with data. The machine had 8MB. In 1999 the app size is 2MB but the machine has 64+ MB. These all mean that we need to re-evaluate things. We can change the space/speed tradeoffs made in 1988 in many places for example. > > Does it mean you should never re-write entire portions of code? Of > course not, but it should never be taken lightly, and *IF* the original > programmers are there and willing (and capable) to explain things to > you, then that should be taken advantage of, and not ignored. The problem was not that the original programmers were being ignored. It's that the original programmers found it difficult to express to a newcommer, the subtleties of what they had internalised years before. Both sides showed remarkable lack of patience.. Matt was in a hurry and John was too busy to stop and really put his ideas down in simple terms. Remember however that John had "retired" from FreeBSD, so there was no original surity that he would give any help at all (though of course those of us that know him knew he could always be asked for advise). I think the whole thing was a storm in a tea-cup and I thing that Matt has been int he code now long enough that just the passing of time and experience has made the decision as to whether he should get commit privs back purely academic.. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 12:40:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C41315438 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA105810020; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Greg Black Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Greg Black wrote: > Generally speaking, it's a good idea to make sure that test code > is at least decent before starting to puzzle over what it does. Regardless. These are the things exploits are made of. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 13: 0: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F36B15A99 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA110920; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:59:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> of Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:35:19 -0400 <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:00:35 -0400 To: Greg Black , "David E. Cross" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:18 PM +1000 6/4/99, Greg Black wrote: >"David E. Cross" writes: > >> fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); > > Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not > to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by > that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. > > Generally speaking, it's a good idea to make sure that test code > is at least decent before starting to puzzle over what it does. So, are you saying that it is perfectly reasonable that this less-than-pretty user-written code, running on remote machines, and requiring absolutely no special privs, will crash FreeBSD used as an NFS server? I don't care if the code "works", or SEGV's, or if the user is logged off for being stupid, but I really do not think it is acceptable for the *file-server* to crash. The odd parameters to open() probably explains why some code-path in the system is getting confused, but it is still the OS's responsibility to keep running even when users do odd things. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 13:26: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33E115205 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (crossd@vacuum.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.25]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA56354; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906042025.QAA56354@cs.rpi.edu> To: Greg Black Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Black of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:18:56 +1000." <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:25:54 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); > > Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not > to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by > that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. > > Generally speaking, it's a good idea to make sure that test code > is at least decent before starting to puzzle over what it does. The code does exactly what it is supposed to. The "600" was a typo that should be "0600". If it makes you feel better s/O_CREAT/O_CREAT|O_RDWR/; the results are the same, the server crashes with a lockmgr: locking against myself panic, a panic that we have seen !13! times in the past 10 days. I would certainly hope and expect it to work (what do you know, it does), considering "the rest" is a simple unlink of the file that _I_ just created. I do not understand why you believe it "does not deserve to work". The ONLY purpose of this code was to create a regular file, unlink it, and then create it again as quickly as possible under the same name. For this purpose the mode is irrelevant, and the R/W status of the FD is irrelevant; the code fulfills its purpose, and in doing so exhibits the aforementioned bug. Generally speaking, you should test the code to see if it works as advertised before trying to fix it. Did this code crash your system when run from 2 solaris 2.6 machines? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 14: 0: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3111015141 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA84114; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:55:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199906042055.NAA84114@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906041228.HAA06346@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Jun 4, 99 07:28:49 am" To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG An attempt at a constructive idea... Regarding the comment that communicating via face to face meetings is vastly superior (and less emotionally draining) that communicating via email.. Why don't we send all of our VM experts (JD, DG, Matt, Alan, Poul, et.al.) to a 3-day "FreeBSD VM camp" (funded by the FreeBSD project), give them lots of white boards and markers, and see what they come up with? Like: a well thought out, detailed, and agreed-upon roadmap for future work. Maybe email is sufficient even for the single most critical and complex part of FreeBSD, but this whole Matt debacle seems like a counter-example to that. Just a thought. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 14:40:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.inktomi.com (mercury.inktomi.com [209.1.32.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94A514CBB for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jplevyak@inktomi.com) Received: from tsdev (tsdev.inktomi.com [209.1.32.119]) by mercury.inktomi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25878; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jplevyak@localhost) by tsdev (SMI-8.6/) id OAA19525; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:40:03 -0700 Message-ID: <19990604144003.A17015@tsdev.inktomi.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:40:03 -0700 From: John Plevyak To: Wes Peters , John Plevyak Cc: lab@gta.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible conflict in nameser.h References: <375707D7.CBE3586B@gta.com> <19990603162104.C8565@tsdev.inktomi.com> <37577B9F.93DB3DD0@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <37577B9F.93DB3DD0@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 01:09:19AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The patch passes 'make world'. I don't know about all the ports. Technically, the member should be private, with the public interface being: #define ns_rr_class(rr) ((rr).class + 0) The problems would be those who need an lval (like ns_parse.c). > This is fixed in BIND-8.2.1, currently in beta testing. (The struct > member is renamed to rr_class instead of just _class.) > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no Great! Then this would be a temporary patch. On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 01:09:19AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Sadly, just slapping extern "C" {} around it doesn't help. Have you > done a "make world" to see what breaks? Personally, I don't like the > _class nomenclature, I'd rather see qclass or something of that sort; > a leading _ generally implies something buried in the bowels of the > implementation. I also worry about breaking any ports that use low- > level features of the resolver. > > All in all, an ulgy little problem you've brought up here. ;^) I agree that '_class' is a bit hokey, but if it is temporary '_class' is more appealing since it looks that way :) john -- John Bradley Plevyak, PhD, jplevyak@inktomi.com, PGP KeyID: 051130BD Inktomi Corporation, 1900 S. Norfolk Street, Suite 310, San Mateo, CA 94403 W:(650)653-2830 F:(650)653-2889 P:(888)491-1332/5103192436.4911332@pagenet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 16: 3:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDAE314C4E for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (crb@fermion.ChrisBowman.com [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA39240; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:02:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199906042302.TAA39240@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:01:11 -0400 To: Nate Williams From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> References: <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:08 AM 6/4/99 -0600, Nate Williams wrote: >[ > None of the below is assumed to be taken as reflecting any situation > that occurred in FreeBSD. This is a *common* problem that exists in > every software program, and any reflection on what happened in FreeBSD > is by coincedence in that it's a software program. My comments apply > as easily to my situation with the laptop support changes I made as it > done to *any* other portion of the system. >] > >> The biggest mistake that programmers working on a large project make is >> when they do *not* rewrite portions of the code that need to be >> rewritten. > >Most good software engineering books would disagree with you. The >*BIGGEST* mistake the most programmers make is re-writing functional >code to conform to their style of programming, rather than understand >why the original programmers did it the way they did it. > >NIH is *FAR* too common of a problem. Bugs *rarely* require a complete >re-write of the code. > >This isn't to say that often-times it's *easier* to just re-write it >from scratch than it is to understand what the original code was doing >in the first place, but this often leads to errors that were fixed by >the original authors in a non-obvious manner being brought back in. > >The above problem is almost always a problem with the original author >not doing a proper job of documenting the work, but it doesn't justify >ripping everything out and starting over from scratch. > >I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out >and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. >It's great fun, and it allows the person to feel better about the >system, themselves, and make sure that they can debug the existing code >better. I do it all the time. But, I know for a fact that it's rarely >the right thing to do, especially when the folks who 'went before me' >aren't 1st year CS students, but are seasoned professionals who have a >clue and didn't do things on a whim. > >Almost *ALL* of the BSD kernel code (and most of the userland code as >well) falls into the class of code that is written by seasoned >professionals. They are not infallible, but they almost always have a >reason for why they did things the way they did. > >Does it mean you should never re-write entire portions of code? Of >course not, but it should never be taken lightly, and *IF* the original >programmers are there and willing (and capable) to explain things to >you, then that should be taken advantage of, and not ignored. To amplify and extend Nate's excellent points I would like to contribute 2 of my own: 1) in a project as large as freebsd in terms of the number of people that read the code (and there are a lot more of us that read that you probably don't know about). When you rewrite that code for one of the reason listed above, you loose all those people that may have read and understood the old code and would understand a small patch or fix, but will need much more time to understand the new code or worse won't put in the effort. We might even loose potential devolpers this way. 2) when our code diverges radically from its origins simply because it is easier to rewrite than to read, we loose the ability to import features and fixes from the other BSD projects. I am not saying that this has happened, I am just suggesting that we keep these things in mind. -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 16:17:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8E114F50 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA98241; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:15:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Archie Cobbs Cc: "John S. Dyson" , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: <199906042055.NAA84114@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > An attempt at a constructive idea... > > Regarding the comment that communicating via face to face meetings > is vastly superior (and less emotionally draining) that communicating > via email.. > > Why don't we send all of our VM experts (JD, DG, Matt, Alan, Poul, et.al.) > to a 3-day "FreeBSD VM camp" (funded by the FreeBSD project), give them lots > of white boards and markers, and see what they come up with? Like: a well > thought out, detailed, and agreed-upon roadmap for future work. > > Maybe email is sufficient even for the single most critical and complex part > of FreeBSD, but this whole Matt debacle seems like a counter-example to that. > > Just a thought. Because such a thing would: a) just about totally drain FreeBSD's budget in one whack, and b) give no useful results. Again, what's needed is *testing*, not more ideas. It can't be done in one fell swoop, that's what this entire brouhaha is about. The testing is very difficult to set up, and then even more difficult to correctly interpret. It's not going to be subject to the "bigger hammer" approach, though you weren't suggesting that directly. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 16:22:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA6A15B5D for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ahasty@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (user-33qsqcc.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.105.140]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00240 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37585FD9.9A8CC@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:23:05 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906042055.NAA84114@bubba.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Add to that periodic technical seminars so the given individuals can get used to each other . I think an NFS technical seminar would be cool , a softupdates presentation by Kirk Mckusick, etc... I still think that Whistle's sponsor presentation on Samba was most cool and afterwards people hang around talking about VM subsystem, it was very peacefully and the guys look like they were having a good time. Archie Cobbs wrote: > An attempt at a constructive idea... > > Regarding the comment that communicating via face to face meetings > is vastly superior (and less emotionally draining) that communicating > via email.. > > Why don't we send all of our VM experts (JD, DG, Matt, Alan, Poul, et.al.) > to a 3-day "FreeBSD VM camp" (funded by the FreeBSD project), give them lots > of white boards and markers, and see what they come up with? Like: a well > thought out, detailed, and agreed-upon roadmap for future work. > > Maybe email is sufficient even for the single most critical and complex part > of FreeBSD, but this whole Matt debacle seems like a counter-example to that. > > Just a thought. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 17:23:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7553A14D46 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA27240; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA09408; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:15:57 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn0.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA10841; Fri, 4 Jun 99 17:14:51 PDT Message-Id: <37586BFB.36433150@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:14:51 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: "John S. Dyson" , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, ahasty@mindspring.com, crossd@cs.rpi.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906042055.NAA84114@bubba.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Archie Cobbs wrote: > > An attempt at a constructive idea... > > Regarding the comment that communicating via face to face meetings > is vastly superior (and less emotionally draining) that communicating > via email.. > > Why don't we send all of our VM experts (JD, DG, Matt, Alan, Poul, et.al.) > to a 3-day "FreeBSD VM camp" (funded by the FreeBSD project), give them lots > of white boards and markers, and see what they come up with? Like: a well > thought out, detailed, and agreed-upon roadmap for future work. > > Maybe email is sufficient even for the single most critical and complex part > of FreeBSD, but this whole Matt debacle seems like a counter-example to that. > > Just a thought. I have access to a camper that sleeps 7, some desert land in the middle of nowhere, Nevada, and a large generator if you want to keep them focused. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 18:37:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0985514BE0 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA10480; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199906050137.SAA10480@apollo.backplane.com> To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Greg Black , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> of Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:35:19 -0400 <199906031735.NAA37037@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not :> to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by :> that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. :> :> Generally speaking, it's a good idea to make sure that test code :> is at least decent before starting to puzzle over what it does. : :So, are you saying that it is perfectly reasonable that this :less-than-pretty user-written code, running on remote machines, :and requiring absolutely no special privs, will crash FreeBSD :used as an NFS server? : :I don't care if the code "works", or SEGV's, or if the user is :logged off for being stupid, but I really do not think it is :acceptable for the *file-server* to crash. The odd parameters :to open() probably explains why some code-path in the system :is getting confused, but it is still the OS's responsibility :to keep running even when users do odd things. : :--- :Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu :Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu :Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute In regards to test code: It doesn't matter whether the test code is reasonable or not. The purpose of the test code is to cause the kernel to reveal a bug in order to make it easyier to fix the bug. Frankly, I wish people could give me such simple and straightforward test code more often! Many of the remaining kernel bugs are race conditions. These sorts of bugs are really annoying to track down because they usually only screw the machine up once in a blue moon. In some cases (as in the above case) they screw the machine up more regularly due to operational characteristics of the particular system. Test programs that are able to reproduce the conditions can often be straightforward but very odd looking. They do not have to mimic real life: the idea is to accellerate the generation of the bug so it occurs in minutes rather then days. In regards to the kernel: Kernels should not crash, period. Test programs that are able to crash a kernel are always desireable. Now, obviously, there are ways to crash the kernel through resource starvation. We want to eventually fix even these situations. The most important bugs are the ones generated from race conditions and those are the ones where test programs are the most desireable because it is damn hard to reproduce some of those bugs based on a text description. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 20:44:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8421414D99 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au) Received: (qmail 29622 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Jun 1999 00:13:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990605001344.29621.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:13:43 +1000 From: Greg Black To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 References: <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> <767.928523121@verdi.nethelp.no> In-reply-to: <767.928523121@verdi.nethelp.no> of Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:05:21 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no writes: > > "David E. Cross" writes: > > > > > fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); > > > > Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not > > to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by > > that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. > > That may be the case, but it shouldn't panic the machine. I did not suggest that it was a likely cause of the panic. I said that it's a fair thing for people who provide test code to at least make it correct so that other people don't have to waste their time on irrelevant issues. Of course, if it is the broken test code that provokes a panic, that should be stated up front as part of the test case. -- Greg Black -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:26: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Hydro.CAM.ORG (Hydro.CAM.ORG [198.168.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7761614BE4 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:26:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from intmktg@CAM.ORG) Received: from Ocean.CAM.ORG (Ocean.CAM.ORG [198.168.100.5]) by Hydro.CAM.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA13145 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:26:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Tardif To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: disassembling execve (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Tardif To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: disassembling execve How can I disassemble the execve syscall? I tried compiling the following code: #include void main() { char *name[2]; name[0] = "/bin/date"; name[1] = NULL; execve(name[0], name, NULL); } ... using the following command: gcc -o program -ggdb -static program.c ... and then debugging with: gdb program ... followed by: disassemble main disassemble execve The gcc manpage specifies that "on systems that support dynamic linking, this prevents linking with the shared libraries" regarding the -static flag. I've noted changes when using 'disassemble main' and using the -static flag, so it seems FreeBSD is among such systems. Yet, when running disassemble execve (which is what appears in the main disassembly), I get: "No function contains the specified address." Well, I'm stumped, I can't find any way to disassemble execve. Please let me know if there's a way, the above procedure apparently works on linux platforms, though execve will appear as __execve in the main disassembly. Thanks in advance, Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:26:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Hydro.CAM.ORG (Hydro.CAM.ORG [198.168.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA67914DDF for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:26:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from intmktg@CAM.ORG) Received: from Ocean.CAM.ORG (Ocean.CAM.ORG [198.168.100.5]) by Hydro.CAM.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA13227 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Tardif To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: where's ADB (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Tardif To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: where's ADB I've been on a few platforms and adb seems like a standard tool. Yet, it's nowhere to be seen on the Freebsd platform (well, I'm still running 2.2.5), nor is it to be seen in the ports. If there's a reason for this, please let me know. Also, I would appreciate if anyone could point me to the whereabouts of this program so I could eventually install it on my freebsd box. Thanks in advance, Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:28:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r9.bfm.org [208.18.213.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EDD14DDF for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA00813; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:28:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:27:58 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Message-ID: <19990604232758.C768@whizkidtech.net> References: <199906040145.CAA04373@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> <199906040223.TAA01897@apollo.backplane.com> <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199906041508.JAA27044@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:08:03AM -0600 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:08:03AM -0600, Nate Williams wrote: > I know of *NO* programmer who does not delight in completely ripping out > and replacing existing code with code that he has written from scratch. Hmmmm... I am a programmer, and I do not take delight in doing that. Not that I haven't done it, but delight was never my motivation. Reasons were always technical, i.e., to improve the code. I would consider doing it just for the sake of doing it a complete waste of my time. I suppose I `delight' in writing code from scratch, otherwise I would not be doing it for so long. But that is writing original code, not replacing existing work of someone else. So, now you know one. :-) Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:31: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BED14DDF for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@picnic.mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA99230; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:30:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Marc Tardif Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where's ADB (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Marc Tardif wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:24:05 -0400 (EDT) > From: Marc Tardif > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: where's ADB > > I've been on a few platforms and adb seems like a standard tool. Yet, it's > nowhere to be seen on the Freebsd platform (well, I'm still running > 2.2.5), nor is it to be seen in the ports. > > If there's a reason for this, please let me know. Also, I would > appreciate if anyone could point me to the whereabouts of this program > so I could eventually install it on my freebsd box. Look for gdb, the gnu debugger. From all the systems I've seen, gdb is even more ubiquitous than adb, and it's easily better. > > Thanks in advance, > Marc > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:46:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peterw.yahoo.com (peterw.yahoo.com [206.132.89.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9E414DDF for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost.yahoo.com [127.0.0.1]) by peterw.yahoo.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA04735; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199906050444.VAA04735@peterw.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Marc Tardif Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: disassembling execve (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 05 Jun 1999 00:26:00 EDT." Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:44:53 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Tardif wrote: > How can I disassemble the execve syscall? [..] > ... using the following command: > gcc -o program -ggdb -static program.c > ... followed by: > disassemble main > disassemble execve > > The gcc manpage specifies that "on systems that support dynamic linking, > this prevents linking with the shared libraries" regarding the -static > flag. I've noted changes when using 'disassemble main' and using the > -static flag, so it seems FreeBSD is among such systems. Yet, when running > disassemble execve (which is what appears in the main disassembly), I get: > "No function contains the specified address." > > Well, I'm stumped, I can't find any way to disassemble execve. Please let > me know if there's a way, the above procedure apparently works on linux > platforms, though execve will appear as __execve in the main disassembly. Hmm, it works for me... (gdb) disassemble execve Dump of assembler code for function _execve: 0x80481d8 <_execve>: leal 0x3b,%eax 0x80481de <_execve+6>: int $0x80 0x80481e0 <_execve+8>: jb 0x80481d0 0x80481e2 <_execve+10>: ret 0x80481e3 <_execve+11>: nop End of assembler dump. In this particular case, the jb reference is to cerror for setting errno. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 21:49:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E1D14DDF for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:49:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24882; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3758AC4D.AFE9F78C@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:49:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Tardif Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: disassembling execve (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Tardif wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:39:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: Marc Tardif > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: disassembling execve > > How can I disassemble the execve syscall? > > I tried compiling the following code: > #include > > void main() { > char *name[2]; > name[0] = "/bin/date"; > name[1] = NULL; > execve(name[0], name, NULL); > } > > ... using the following command: > gcc -o program -ggdb -static program.c > > ... and then debugging with: > gdb program > > ... followed by: > disassemble main > disassemble execve > > The gcc manpage specifies that "on systems that support dynamic linking, > this prevents linking with the shared libraries" regarding the -static > flag. I've noted changes when using 'disassemble main' and using the > -static flag, so it seems FreeBSD is among such systems. Yet, when running > disassemble execve (which is what appears in the main disassembly), I get: > "No function contains the specified address." My system reports the following: (gdb) disassemble execve Dump of assembler code for function _execve: 0x80481f0 <_execve>: leal 0x3b,%eax 0x80481f6 <_execve+6>: int $0x80 0x80481f8 <_execve+8>: jb 0x80481e8 0x80481fa <_execve+10>: ret 0x80481fb <_execve+11>: nop End of assembler dump. What version of FreeBSD, gcc, and gdb are you using? Mine are 3.1-RELEASE, 2.7.2.1, and 4.16 respectively, all as installed from the 3.1 CD-ROM. It also worked fine on my 4.0-CURRENT machine using egcs-1.1.2 release and 4.18. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 4 22:18:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A095114F4A for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 11286 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 05:18:34 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 05:18:34 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA07966; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:18:33 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906050518.AAA07966@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Jun 4, 99 12:27:54 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:18:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, dyson@iquest.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The problem was not that the original programmers were being ignored. > It's that the original programmers found it difficult to express to a > newcommer, the subtleties of what they had internalised years before. > > Both sides showed remarkable lack of patience.. Matt was in a hurry and > John was too busy to stop and really put his ideas down in simple terms. > Remember however that John had "retired" from FreeBSD, so there was no > original surity that he would give any help at all (though of course > those of us that know him knew he could always be asked for advise). > > I think the whole thing was a storm in a tea-cup and I thing that Matt > has been int he code now long enough that just the passing of time and > experience has made the decision as to whether he should get commit privs > back purely academic.. > I suggest that even the most expericenced and expert developer should adhere to reasonable development practices including the requirement for unit testing (individual tests on the developers own resources), and also system testing done by others. Some subsystems are more fragile and critical than others, but in order to minimize the mistakes in implementation, design review and input is also desirable. If a design discipline is adhered to, then many mistakes in implementation can be avoided. So, not only should there be a minimal testing process, a minimal (and non restraining) design process should be followed. This will minimize both algorithmic regression and stability regression. For major subsystems and a professional result in modification and design of existing subsystems, some form of discipline is needed (*none* of us is perfect.) The days of invent, hack, commit in important and existant subsystems is likely long gone. At one time that procedure was needed due to practicalities, but now there are emeritus and outside people interested in the success of the project, and many more resources are available upon request. (The invent, hack phases are still appropriate at times, but those who invent in a vacuum will continue to make the same mistakes that both original and outside developers had originally made. There is alot of info out there for the taking.) John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 0: 7:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quantum.mweb.co.za (quantum.mweb.co.za [196.2.16.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F45514ED0 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rlategan@mweb.co.za) Received: from rlategan (mdb-521-123.mweb.co.za [196.2.25.123] (may be forged)) by quantum.mweb.co.za (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22668 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:04:36 +0200 Message-ID: <01e001beaf6c$5f1e42a0$7b1902c4@rlategan> From: "Renier Lategan" To: References: Subject: unsubscribe Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:47:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe rlategan@mwb.co.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 0:42:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dyson.iquest.net. (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3894C14C20 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA57884; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:41:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199906050741.CAA57884@dyson.iquest.net.> Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 4, 1999 09:18:13 am" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:41:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), dg@root.com, wes@softweyr.com, dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob said: > > In terms of design reviews and architecture *before* the commit, well, if > you want to go that route I can assure you it's a major amount of work. It > will bring FreeBSD into "adult" development- no large scale project with > > 50 engineers really succeeds long term without it, but are you really > wanting to the tbings of: MRD (Market Requirement Document), External > Reference Spec, Internal Reference Spec, Test Plan, Architecture Review, > Implementation Review, *Commit*, Test, Release, Post Mortem Review..... > Part of me totally agrees with this (and from the standpoint of being a generally responsible person) all in all do agree. The silly and fun part of me says that all of the fun and the somewhat disorganized nature of creativity should not be destroyed by imposing too many roadblocks in the way of that creativity. The key here is for those with the bottom line responsibility to make the tradeoff between the quality of their (actually the communities') product and making it fun to work on it. I suggest that biasing it slightly in the direction of fun would be best, but most strongly supporting fun and creativity in the areas that need the application of creativity and innovation the most. It seems that a practical aspect of the fun of creativity is for each individual developer to know enough about the work to realize what is reinvention vs. new invention. There have been alot of tradeoffs made in the design of the new (FreeBSD specific) portions of the code, and it isn't likely that those who did not participate directly in the work will know what decisions and tradeoffs were made. Even if the code had comments on every line, and there was a design document associated with every significant subsystem, it would be unlikely that the tradeoffs would be fully disclosed. Some of the tradeoffs made in the past might not be appropriate for now, but others might be quite critical for maintaining some of the positive qualities that FreeBSD is known for today. The above is the reason why gaining access to the decision making process of the past is a choice that allows the maximization of fun in the present, and doesn't loose the positive effects of past work. The negative effects of the creative process are mitigated by the experiences of developers who have alot of history in the field. Loosing that experience in the name of "fun" or even fixing problems that exist in the present will possibly (and in some cases will probably) regress the quality of the code in unintended ways. In a community project like FreeBSD, the notion of ego should really be left alone. The project is best served by the cooperative efforts of all those who are involved, and with ego and impatience being only a secondary or tertiary motivating factor, the group as a whole will benefit the most. The strongest effect that ego had on me when working on FreeBSD was the damage in my name, by me, done to the codebase. Even though there was too much experimental code added to the codebase at the time, there were few other choices available. Perhaps I tended to hold on to the old (hacking) ways too long, but I certainly realized that, and was working aggresively and great restraint to fix that insidious problem well before the time that I had quit the team. (Note that my work was progressing, but also being held away from the tree due to the need to maintain stability, both for altruistic reasons towards the project, and also due to the ego-issue of wanting to avoid breaking or regressing the code.) So, it seems that fun should be a side-effect of working on the project, but that fun should be responsible. Creativity is often associated with fun and enjoyment, and that should not be destroyed by imposing too many rules. I think that the key here is avoiding the negative aspects of ego, and instilling an ethic of responsibility. There are people's livelihoods dependent on the viability of FreeBSD, and fixing one set of problems and causing regressive side-effects in other areas is undesirable. Mitigating the negative side-effects by using available resources, both as an after the fact review aid, and more importantly: in conceptual reviews will maximize the aspects of fun, help mitigate regressions, and in the case of working earlier on with people who have made design decisions before, minimize the friction due to design corrections or reconsideration needed after the fact. No-one wants to redo their programming work, after reviews might be showing that initial design premises are wrong or incomplete. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 0:57:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quantum.mweb.co.za (quantum.mweb.co.za [196.2.16.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947F514C20 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:57:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rlategan@mweb.co.za) Received: from rlategan (rnb-ts531-008.mweb.co.za [196.2.32.8]) by quantum.mweb.co.za (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25877 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:55:16 +0200 Message-ID: <03b701beaf73$733c8b00$7b1902c4@rlategan> From: "Renier Lategan" To: Subject: Re: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:49:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BEAF38.C64829C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BEAF38.C64829C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable auth c0d77546 unsubscribe freebsd-hackers-digest rlategan@mweb.co.za ------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BEAF38.C64829C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BEAF38.C64829C0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1: 1: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quantum.mweb.co.za (quantum.mweb.co.za [196.2.16.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205C414C20 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rlategan@mweb.co.za) Received: from rlategan (rnb-ts531-008.mweb.co.za [196.2.32.8]) by quantum.mweb.co.za (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26066 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:58:17 +0200 Message-ID: <03d401beaf73$df683180$7b1902c4@rlategan> From: "Renier Lategan" To: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:53:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03D1_01BEAF39.326921E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03D1_01BEAF39.326921E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable auth c0d77546 unsubscribe freebsd-hackers-digest rlategan@mweb.co.za ------=_NextPart_000_03D1_01BEAF39.326921E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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= ------=_NextPart_000_03D1_01BEAF39.326921E0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1: 3:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quantum.mweb.co.za (quantum.mweb.co.za [196.2.16.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19CE814C20 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:03:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rlategan@mweb.co.za) Received: from rlategan (rnb-ts531-008.mweb.co.za [196.2.32.8]) by quantum.mweb.co.za (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26204 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:01:07 +0200 Message-ID: <03de01beaf74$44b2fac0$7b1902c4@rlategan> From: "Renier Lategan" To: Subject: Fw: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:55:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03DB_01BEAF39.97B3EB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03DB_01BEAF39.97B3EB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Renier Lategan=20 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG=20 Sent: Saturday, June 05, 1999 9:53 AM auth c0d77546 unsubscribe freebsd-hackers-digest rlategan@mweb.co.za ------=_NextPart_000_03DB_01BEAF39.97B3EB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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auth c0d77546 unsubscribe=20 freebsd-hackers-digest
 rlategan@mweb.co.za

= ------=_NextPart_000_03DB_01BEAF39.97B3EB20-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1:24:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dyson.iquest.net. (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A4914E69; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:24:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA57904; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:24:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199906050824.DAA57904@dyson.iquest.net.> Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <199906040131.SAA01566@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Jun 3, 1999 06:31:36 pm" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:24:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: Thu@apollo.backplane.com, 3@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun@FreeBSD.ORG, 1999@FreeBSD.ORG, 23.-0500@apollo.backplane.com (EST), nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon said: > > I don't want to be a pest, because this really shouldn't be on an > open forum. But John: I would ask you questions and the answers I > would get would be in the form: "Nobody understands that > code but me, don't touch what you don't understand", or "The algorithm > is obvious from the code". This in regards to non-compartmentalized > algorithms strewn across half a dozen source files which are almost > universally lacking in comments of any substance. > The frustration that I was showing was a result of off the wall assertions being made, with few coherent questions. Your questions are often analogous to someone saying that the VM code sucks, but will you help me with it, by teaching it to me? Oh, by the way, I haven't read the docs that you asked me to... :-). Hows about the frustration of being asked to review code "corrections" (or even seeing commits) that show a confusion that would have been cleared up if the docs were read, and then time was spent to ask questions that are backed with some initial understanding? > > That VM code was very fragile. It mostly worked, but it was very fragile. > It still IS fragile. > Are you trying to assert that the code is broken, and you will come in on your white horse and fix it? The minor fixes that should really be done are little in comparisons with the complexities and work associated with the original innovation. Actually, there is alot in the (VM) code that causes it to be generally robust. It is important to make sure that the code is well understood, or the various mechanisms that do provide for robust behavior in various loading conditions will be broken. (Randomly changing code that the hacker doesn't understand will indeed make code appear to be fragile.) The VFS code does need work, but it should be done only if the reasons and effects of its design are well understood by the individuals doing the work. There is a lot of infomation available, and it is available for the asking. The interface to filesystems and how they work need to be done from scratch. The need for backwards compatibility is probably gone now, and has been less important after the softupdates being integrated. There are two significant approaches to fixing the interface, and my suggestion is to eliminate the block-buffer interface all together. That was on my list, and really would have taken only a few weeks of work (and alot of review and testing.) I suggest design consultation before design and implementation however. Note that there are alot of individuals with biased views as to how to do I/O, and some of them have really good ideas. The key is to integrate what is needed for the I/O subsystems, and what is needed for filesystems. The caching per-se is already handled architecturally, so almost any work on vfs_bio beyond minor fixes for NFS are probably wasted effort on a legacy design that is less efficient than need be. On of the original passes for the merged VM buffer cache eliminated the buffers except for metadata, and the scheme worked. Since the need for backwards compatibility is almost gone, totally eliminating the buffer cache (and associated metdata bp-buffers) would be a good project. By elimintaing VFS_BIO, 99% of the grunge code would be eliminated from the VM/VFS code. Most of the ugliness in the VM code is there in order to interoperate with filesystems, and the methods used for them. If the vfs_bio rework is done, and done properly, the issues of coherency with VM and across VFS layers will be very clean to implement. In essense, this would be a forward moving project, which would avoid massive amounts of rework, and minimize breaking existing code. I suspect that re-architecting vfs_bio would be the best possible time investment. Continual re-working of the code, when it is used in ways that it wasn't even architecturally designed for (e.g. NFS, LFS), is more of an exercise in continual polishing. Note that the architectural issues regarding vfs_bio and NFS appeared way before the FreeBSD code, but have been problematical from day one. Note all of the hackery in the NFS code to make the buffer cache paradigm sort-of work... LFS is yet another beast that has work arounds to support a buffer cache scheme. Someone who wants to do something creative, with a user population that would be very thankful and that person wants to work on VM or VFS code, will consider carefully the straightforward effort to redesign VFS_BIO. If you want, I can have a working copy for you in a couple of weeks!!! :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1:36:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80EA014ED0 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA186446; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 04:36:27 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990605001344.29621.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> References: <767.928523121@verdi.nethelp.no> of Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:05:21 +0200 <19990604091857.25082.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> <767.928523121@verdi.nethelp.no> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 04:37:05 -0400 To: Greg Black , sthaug@nethelp.no From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:13 AM +1000 6/5/99, Greg Black wrote: >sthaug@nethelp.no writes: > >> > "David E. Cross" writes: >> > >> > > fd=open(argv[1], O_CREAT, 600); >> > >> > Since this opens the file so that it cannot be written to, not >> > to mention the really weird mode it will get if it's created by >> > that open(), the rest of the thing doesn't deserve to work. >> >> That may be the case, but it shouldn't panic the machine. > >I did not suggest that it was a likely cause of the panic. I >said that it's a fair thing for people who provide test code to >at least make it correct so that other people don't have to >waste their time on irrelevant issues. Of course, if it is the >broken test code that provokes a panic, that should be stated up >front as part of the test case. let us see. The SUBJECT of this threat is: 3.2-stable, PANIC NUMBER 12 It is the latest in a series of threads, all started by david, which talked about previous PANICs that he has been grappling with since a recent upgrade to FreeBSD (among other things). I guess that was not upfront enough. I will have to chide david for being so devious with the topics he posts to hackers. More seriously, I expect you were trying to be helpful with your code-review response, but you really did completely misread the messages that David has been posting. It would be easier to just admit that and forget about it, than to try and convince people that your reply made ANY sense given the messages David has been posting while tracking down this very vexing ("PANIC NUMBER 12") problem that we (RPI) have been trying to pin down. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1:39:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA24E14FD3; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id KAA19203; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:39:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:39:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Bruce Evans Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-Reply-To: <199906042048.GAA25745@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? I'd like to know whether there is some interest in getting that work underway again. More than interested to help. > You're forgetting that devsw[] is another stopgap. The kernel should > probably use something like devfs, where dev_t's only exist for devices > that actually exist. xxx_init() is far too early to decide which hardware > devices exist. > > Bruce Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1:43:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8601414ED0; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA20816; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906050843.BAA20816@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), Thu@apollo.backplane.com, 3@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun@FreeBSD.ORG, 1999@FreeBSD.ORG, 23.-0500@apollo.backplane.com (EST), nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 01:43:31 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:24:07 -0500 (EST) "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > I don't want to be a pest, because this really shouldn't be on an > > open forum. But John: I would ask you questions and the answers I > > would get would be in the form: "Nobody understands that > > code but me, don't touch what you don't understand", or "The algorithm > > is obvious from the code". This in regards to non-compartmentalized > > algorithms strewn across half a dozen source files which are almost > > universally lacking in comments of any substance. > The frustration that I was showing was a result of off the wall assertions > being made, with few coherent questions. Your questions are often > analogous to someone saying that the VM code sucks, but will you help me > with it, by teaching it to me? Oh, by the way, I haven't read the docs > that you asked me to... :-). Hows about the frustration of being asked > to review code "corrections" (or even seeing commits) that show a confusion > that would have been cleared up if the docs were read, and then time was > spent to ask questions that are backed with some initial understanding? I dunno, John. Matt's right on the ball here, from my experience. Vague non-answers seem to be your specialty. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 1:56:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EA9E815027 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (qmail 5356 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 08:56:13 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 08:56:13 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA08260; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:56:11 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199906050856.DAA08260@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <199906050843.BAA20816@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from Jason Thorpe at "Jun 5, 99 01:43:31 am" To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:56:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, Thu@apollo.backplane.com, 3@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun@FreeBSD.ORG, 1999@FreeBSD.ORG, 23.-0500@apollo.backplane.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:24:07 -0500 (EST) > > > The frustration that I was showing was a result of off the wall assertions > > being made, with few coherent questions. Your questions are often > > analogous to someone saying that the VM code sucks, but will you help me > > with it, by teaching it to me? Oh, by the way, I haven't read the docs > > that you asked me to... :-). Hows about the frustration of being asked > > to review code "corrections" (or even seeing commits) that show a confusion > > that would have been cleared up if the docs were read, and then time was > > spent to ask questions that are backed with some initial understanding? > > I dunno, John. Matt's right on the ball here, from my experience. Vague > non-answers seem to be your specialty. > Rude, snide comments seem to be yours. I'm sorry that I haven't given you answers to every question that you might have asked, but I doubt that the motivation of your questions were in the best interests of everyone involved. The only way that I can reasonably give answers to questions is if the answer is really wanted. This is a continual problem where if I give an answer, it is often begged with another question that often shows that the real answer isn't desired. Almost anyone who as really asked me for help, and really wants the answer has gotten the answer. One good way to determine if an answer is really desired is to find out if the person who poses the question is willing to research the publically existant information (often the information is out in the open, and indexed in publically available databases.) Questions are often asked when the info is already out there -- it is always best to show people how to get their own answers. The best way that I can generally add to the information out there is to request that people call me, or if specific questions are asked after some effort in doing the research has be made. Sometimes questions are asked, and the correct answer isn't the one that is desired, and then the question is asked again to see if the answer has changed... Seldom do I need to change my answer, unless the question is different :-). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 2:28:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755F514FBB; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:28:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA55282; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:27:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Nick Hibma Cc: Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:39:40 +0200." Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: <55280.928574841@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Nick Hibma writes: > >While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? > >I'd like to know whether there is some interest in getting that work >underway again. More than interested to help. I'm not currently working on devfs, but I am building the infrastructure it should be based on in the kernel. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 2:29:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D943415095; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17548; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:48:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199906050948.TAA17548@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Matt's Commit status (was Re: 3.2-stable, panic #12) In-Reply-To: <199906050843.BAA20816@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from Jason Thorpe at "Jun 5, 1999 1:43:31 am" To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:48:31 +1000 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, Thu@apollo.backplane.com, 3@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun@FreeBSD.ORG, 1999@FreeBSD.ORG, 23.-0500@apollo.backplane.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Thorpe wrote: > I dunno, John. Matt's right on the ball here, from my experience. Vague > non-answers seem to be your specialty. That appears to be a comment designed to create a flame war. It certainly is not helpful to FreeBSD. Please don't abuse our lists. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 3: 1: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67CB14E5A; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA19478; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:48:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:48:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-Reply-To: <55280.928574841@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? > > I'm not currently working on devfs, but I am building the infrastructure > it should be based on in the kernel. Anymore information available on where you are with this? Cheers, Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 4:41:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E1D14EEA; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 04:41:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA55582; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:39:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Nick Hibma Cc: Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 05 Jun 1999 11:48:02 +0200." Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:39:58 +0200 Message-ID: <55580.928582798@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Nick Hibma writes: > > >While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? > > > > I'm not currently working on devfs, but I am building the infrastructure > > it should be based on in the kernel. > >Anymore information available on where you are with this? I currently have a kernel running where dev_t is a pointer to a "struct dev" and where char and block devs are collapsed at the dev_t level. There are some bogons i need to fumigate, but I'm off to give a course in Stockholm much of this coming week, so don't expect any commits just now. (I may actually postpone/abandon this step for now, since some of the changes pulls rugs away which cover what looks to me like holes in the floor). Next is to integrate the dev_t anti-aliasing and vnode anti-aliasing code. When I have that bit down and done, the next step is for device drivers to register individual dev_t's rather than blanket cdevsw entries. The later ability will be retained for pseudo drivers and other (pseudo)magic. This registration will look pretty much like the current #ifdef'ed DEVFS stuff, and in addition it will allow the driver to hang two fields of the dev_t, typically a pointer to the struct softc and maybe a unit number or something. This will obsolete all of the magic minor -> {unit|softc} converters in our drivers and make the "NFOO" configuration obsolete. That is, as such the end of this little project, and where a future DEVFS could take off from. Basically all that is needed for a DEVFS to do, is to hook into the dev_t maintenance code and construct the directory tree. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 7:57:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3FB14C17 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:56:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10189 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906051457.KAA10189@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 09:53:29 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: Socket Problem in 3.2? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm willing to investigate this, but I need some pointers on where to start. There seems to be a socket-level problem with 3.x...I havent tested it in 3.1 yet but I do see it in 3.2. 2 Freebsd boxes connected back to back with a serial line..it happens to be a T3 but the results are the same with any PTP line..one is 2.2.8 and the other is 3.2. The 2.2.8 machine is pinging the 3.2 machine...the link is brought down. The 2.2.8 machine starts printing "sendto: network down" messages until the 3.2 machine is brought back up, and then pinging resumes normally. However, when pinging from the 3.2 machine, the 2.2.8 machine is brought down and the 3.2 machine just stops (no messages as if it doesnt detect the link down)....then when the 2.2.8 machine is brought back up the ping does not resume. A new ping session from the 3.2 box works normally indicating the the link is working properly. It seems that something was done, perhaps to eliminate the "Sendto" messages that keeps applications from coming back up if the link goes down and comes back up. This is pretty bad if major network services exhibit the same behaviour. Anyone have any ideas? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 9:32:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529A114C87 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id BAA19946; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:32:29 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:32:29 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906051632.BAA19946@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Cc: mark@grondar.za, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:10:51 JST". <10710.928404651@peewee> From: hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21] 1997-12/23(Tue) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <10710.928404651@peewee> jkh@zippy.cdrom.com writes: >> JFYI, during our conversation, we identified the following areas in >> which we'd like to work together in enhancing sysinstall: >> >> 1. Put pccardd on the mfsroot floppy and add a few things to >> sysinstall (this may already be done by his patches, I haven't >> had time to check) which enable its use during installation. I want to commit it soon because this is long-awaited feature. I want to see the patches against -current. >> 2. Bring in message catalog and BIG5 support so that the standard >> installer supports English, Japanese, Korean and Chinese by >> default. AFAIK, Big5 means a coding system only for traditional Chinese widely used in Taiwan and Hong-Kong. EUC-jp (Japanese), EUC-kr (Korean), and Big5 (Traditional Chinese) occupies almost similar area in 16bit space. Our code can handle these three coding systems and maybe GBK (Simplified Chinese) coding system. I believe that our code also can handle ISO-8859-1 Latin charsets. I can prepare French, German, and many European boot.flp if there are translators for these languages. The messages and help/document files of 3.2-RELEASE have already been translated into Korean and are translating into Japanese. We need translator and maintainer of Chinese messages. >> 3. Figure out why I couldn't get the isc-dhcp client to work >> before 3.2's release (causing me to abandon the idea of adding >> this feature for 3.2) and get DHCP support into 3.3. We already have experimental code to activate WIDE-dhcp client. I'm not sure why isc-dhcp does not work. >> I look forward to working with Tatsumi-san on these features; >> they're all long overdue! :) I'm working on rewriting ugly parts of "2." on 3.2-RELEASE like I did for "1.". As far as I know, differences between src/release of 3.2-RELEASE and it of 4.0-CURRENT are very small. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Assistant Manager Information Technology Center, Keio University To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 10:30: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E2414CA4 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01690; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:29:44 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:29:31 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, mark@grondar.za, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199906051632.BAA19946@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, HOSOKAWA Tatsumi wrote: > >> 3. Figure out why I couldn't get the isc-dhcp client to work > >> before 3.2's release (causing me to abandon the idea of adding > >> this feature for 3.2) and get DHCP support into 3.3. > > We already have experimental code to activate WIDE-dhcp client. I'm > not sure why isc-dhcp does not work. It isn't something as simple as not putting bpf into the install kernel is it? -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 12:25: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1921A14F09 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27560 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3759798A.A5A13C83@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:24:58 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Man pages for review Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have written man pages for aio_write, aio_error, aio_return, aio_cancel, aio_suspend, and lio_listio. They are in my ~ on freefall if anyone would like to review them. I have also edited aio_read.2 and aio.h to correct minor problems, if you would like to review those as well. In particular, a review for accuracy and correct return values and diagnostics will be appreciated. aTdHvAaNnKcSe for your help. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 13:40:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A8614D75 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id WAA22788 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:36:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA99262 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:35:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199906052035.WAA99262@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: CVS repo shared via NFS, error? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:35:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please bear with me if this is a FAQ, this is my first encounter with CVS. I'm trying to share a CVS repository via NFS. CVSup had no troubles to create an uptodate CVS repo. based on what is on the 3.1 CDs. This repo is on NFS server 'yedi'. I also have a NFS client 'p100': bash-2.02# cvs -R co -d . src cvs checkout: existing repository /cvsroot does not match /cvsroot/src cvs checkout: ignoring module src bash-2.02# cvs -R co -d . -r RELENG_3_2_0_RELEASE src cvs checkout: existing repository /cvsroot does not match /cvsroot/src cvs checkout: ignoring module src bash-2.02# ls /cvsroot/ .ctm_status distrib ports www CVSROOT doc src bash-2.02# mount /dev/da0s2a on / (local, writes: sync 8 async 105) /dev/da0s2f on /tmp (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 14) /dev/da0s2g on /usr (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 230) /dev/da0s2e on /var (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 55 async 304) procfs on /proc (local) yedi:/local/CVS-repository-base/CVS-repository on /cvsroot (read-only) bash-2.02# echo $CVSROOT /cvsroot bash-2.02# What does this error try to tell me? | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 13:42:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA94314D75 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 55845 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Jun 1999 20:46:52 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:46:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: --Q&x/1^%>&*}<-P_Nc`3TWi's/BcC?8]O1b,;r$#7wzaSo-\/:3NE{Wm=?;i8{R'h.gsd8 %Hz|Y~=sSW"`VLLNW/{>Ap1%:OB*:KP|LD>" =)I@7r|wU}a To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Major/Minor devices for i2o Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Y'll, Have not been hiding, just working on i2o stuff. Question: How to best map i2o devices to major and minor devices? Background: Currently, all i2o subsystem is handled by one driver. The driver collects i2o HRT and LCT data from all i2o IOPs and builds the appropriate tables. Translated to non-i2o English: The driver build a list of all i2o devices that are visible to the host (IOPs). Each controller builds a table of the controllers it controls (HRT) and of all the logical devices attached to these controllers (LCT). Problem: How do we map all these devices into major/minor? (It has to work on 2.2.8 as well as 3.x and 4.x, preferably with the same solution). Complications: * We need to be able to address individual IOPs (For example, each DPT controller is thre PCI devices and one IOP). * Each IOP has many physical devices (say 126 disks on each FCAL channel). * Each IOP has multiple levels of logical devices. * At most times the physical devices are not interesting, but at other times they are very interesting. Let me illustrate with a complex example: 2 DPT IOPs: 0 - 3 SCSI UW2 busses, each bus with 12 disks and two environmental controllers. 1 - Two FCAL channels, each with 112 drives and 8 environmental controllers. Disks are arranges as follows: On IOP-0 we have 17 RAID-1 arrays. These arrays are arranged as a RAID-0 with 18 strips in it. Two drives are hot spares. On IOP-0 we have 4 RAID-5 arrays (28 drives per array) arranged as a 4 stripe RAID-0. Looking at the physical devices attached we have: i0b0t0 through i0b2t15 (with t13, and t14 empty) i1bot0 through i1b1t113 (to make thing simple. This is already a problem as we have only 8 bits in the minor number. But wait, we also have logical views; one descrives the first level arrays (the RAID-1 and RAID-5, and a second that describes the second level array. Graphically, we have: disk0 disk1 disk2 disk3 ... diskN | | | | +--+--+ +--+--+ | | Array0 Array1 ... ArrayN | | +-----+-----+ | SuperArray0 ... SuperArrayN The i2o driver builds a series of tables and trees to represent this data. Ownership and availability are covered both as part of the i2o spec and as exportable data in the driver. The question is how to best express all this as major/minor numbers. Here are my proposals: Proposal 1: * Major numbers are converted to 16 bit quantities, and masked assignements are permitted. For example, the current major number continues to occupy the lower 8 bits, and a sub-major is allowed in the upper 8 bits. When assigning major numbers, only the lower 8 bits are considred, but the devswitch passes the entire 16 bits to the driver, after masking the upper bits for switching purposes. The driver uses the high bit (or some other bit) to differentiate character (raw) devices from block devices. Example; Major number 0x01fe means second IOP in the (old) major number 126. This will give us up to 16 IOPs. * Minor numbers also become 16 bit wide, 12 bits are used for the TID (Target ID, unique number identifying the I2O device on a given IOP). the upper 4 bits are reserved. This mapping allows for 16 IOPs, and a direct mapping of an i2o TID to a minor number. Proposal 2: * Major numbers are left alone. * The minor number is increased to 16 bits; 12 lower bits to map the TID, 4 upper bits to map the IOP. Again, we will have support for 16 IOPs and streight mapping of TID numbers. When moving to 3.x/4.x, I would recommend supporting the same plus, by default, using devfs to map the devices. For devfs, I suggest the following structure: /dev/i2o - The primary directory which contains all i2o entities. /dev/i2o/0-N - Each IOP gets its own directory. /dev/i2o/N/ctl - A file fo/from which control messages can be written, or IOCTL syscalls be made. /dev/i2o/N/data - If the IOP supports a single device (such as a simple network card), then this is the file representing that device normal data stream. /dev/i2o/N/xxT - For each found TID, a directory which name is the TID number. xx is a string representing the device class. See below. /dev/i2o/N/T/xxctl - Write/read to/from this file sends control messages and receives replies. IOCTL to this file does what one expects IOCTL to do. Control Files (ctl): Allow non-ioctl applications (such as shells) to interact, in a portable manner, with devices. It also bypasses the data length limitation of the IOCTL system call. Device Classes: I2O recognizes the following device classes. On the left is the xx code, on the right a definition. To be more accurate, perhaps we should consider a longer name, that will include a sub-class. ex - Executive, the i2o driver itself. dm - I2o DDM (low level device driver (mostly invisible to us) rb - Random Block Storage; abstracts floppies, IDE, SCSI, RAID disks and other such devices. Proposed sub-devices: da - Direct Access Read/Write (disk, RAID, etc.) ww - Write Once (WORM) cd - CD-ROM op - Optical Storage sq - Sequential Storage (such as tape, etc. Proposed Sub-devices: 12 - i/2inch reel-to-reel qc - QIC Cartridge 34 - 3480 Cartridge 4m - 4mm Digital Storage 8m - 8mm Digital Storage dt - DLT Cartridge la - LAN Controller abstraction wa - WAN Controller abstraction ft - FiberChannel Port abstraction fp - FiberChannel Peripheral abstraction sc - SCSI Peripheral (for SCSI passthrough, etc.) at - ATE Port management ap - ATE Peripheral abstraction fc - Floppy Controller fd - Floppy device ba - Bus Adapter Port pp - Portal to Peer to Peer connections So, with DEVFS, one could have a /dev/i2o/0/0/rbda meaning, the first IOP, TID 0, is a random access device, while /dev/i2o/1/1251/ft may be a fiber channel connection on TID 1251 on the second IOP. Well, this is a lot to chew on, but the time by which FreeBSd will have a preliminary i2o support is nearing rapidly. Any suggestions will be more than welcome. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 14:42:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F7F14BD5; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA02335; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Nick Hibma , Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-Reply-To: <55580.928582798@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Nick Hibma writes: > > > >While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? > > > > > > I'm not currently working on devfs, but I am building the infrastructure > > > it should be based on in the kernel. > > > >Anymore information available on where you are with this? > > I currently have a kernel running where dev_t is a pointer to a > "struct dev" and where char and block devs are collapsed at the > dev_t level. There are some bogons i need to fumigate, but I'm > off to give a course in Stockholm much of this coming week, so > don't expect any commits just now. (I may actually postpone/abandon > this step for now, since some of the changes pulls rugs away which > cover what looks to me like holes in the floor). > > Next is to integrate the dev_t anti-aliasing and vnode anti-aliasing > code. > > When I have that bit down and done, the next step is for device > drivers to register individual dev_t's rather than blanket cdevsw > entries. The later ability will be retained for pseudo drivers > and other (pseudo)magic. > > This registration will look pretty much like the current #ifdef'ed > DEVFS stuff, and in addition it will allow the driver to hang two > fields of the dev_t, typically a pointer to the struct softc and > maybe a unit number or something. This will obsolete all of > the magic minor -> {unit|softc} converters in our drivers and > make the "NFOO" configuration obsolete. > > That is, as such the end of this little project, and where a future > DEVFS could take off from. Basically all that is needed for a DEVFS > to do, is to hook into the dev_t maintenance code and construct > the directory tree. DEVFS has always meant to do exactly this. there is already a place in the structure for these two fields, and when devfs is running, the devsw[] table is not consulted. The vnode already contains a direct pointer to the devsw entry and a cookie (minor number), and these are called directly. there is already a node type for the 'unified' device type. there are three types of device in devfs BDEV, CDEV and DDEV. DDEV has only a pointer to teh methods and a cookie. (as you suggest above) > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 14:44:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EDAF14BD5; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA01924; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:37:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Nick Hibma Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: cdevsw_add In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Basically I'm not working on devfs at the moment since the bit that made it workable was ripped out with extreme prejudice by someone. I'm still absolutly convinced that a dynamic device registration and export framework is required in the long run, but I'm not fussed if it's based on the current devfs or an successor. I'd feel a bit happier about spending more time on it If I had any thought that the result would not be ripped out by the throat as soon as it works again, by a maniac that doesn't understand that it's a working subsystem (it was fully working at the time it was vandaliased but the nice fellow didn't even try it, and I got no warning except the commit message). There were two known problems that were based in other parts of the code (mfs and some vfs/module stuff) And the install software couldn't install with it. If PHK is working an a framework to make this easier, I'd love to get a white-paper on the topic because it's all unknown stuff at the moment. To get it going, you basically need to reverse the backout commits done by SOS a year ago. DEVSF itself works, but it needs a different disk subsystem to be able to represent dynamic disk partitions properly. julian On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > >While on the topic: Who is working on devfs and why not? > > > > I'm not currently working on devfs, but I am building the infrastructure > > it should be based on in the kernel. > > Anymore information available on where you are with this? > > Cheers, > > Nick > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 15: 2:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B80114BD5 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07557; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Doug Rabson Cc: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi , mark@grondar.za, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 05 Jun 1999 18:29:31 BST." Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 15:03:44 -0700 Message-ID: <7553.928620224@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It isn't something as simple as not putting bpf into the install kernel is > it? I'm afraid not. :) The symptom was that dhcp started up just fine, it just refused every lease offered by the server. Debugging stuff on the boot floppy is also kinda hard and the deadline was coming up so I had to put it on the 3.3 stack. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 15:15:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-3.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF87214DEA for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id PAA04047; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990605151525.25580@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:15:25 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man pages for review References: <3759798A.A5A13C83@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3759798A.A5A13C83@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 01:24:58PM -0600 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters scribbled this message on Jun 5: > I have written man pages for aio_write, aio_error, aio_return, > aio_cancel, aio_suspend, and lio_listio. They are in my ~ on > freefall if anyone would like to review them. I have also edited > aio_read.2 and aio.h to correct minor problems, if you would like > to review those as well. > > In particular, a review for accuracy and correct return values and > diagnostics will be appreciated. aTdHvAaNnKcSe for your help. hehehe, I'll take a look at it... probably better than what I did to the man page... :) -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 15:25: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.noc.netcom.net (mail1.noc.netcom.net [204.31.1.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3945414F12 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kprater@industrysearch.com) Received: from webserver.industrysearch.com (webserver.industrysearch.com [207.95.128.10]) by mail1.noc.netcom.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/(NETCOM v2.00)) with ESMTP id PAA01404 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906052225.PAA01404@mail1.noc.netcom.net> Received: from PB-S607 by webserver.industrysearch.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id L9MBWBPS; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:16:34 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Ken Prater, IndustrySearch.Com" Date: Sat, 5 Jun 99 18:26:12 +0000 Subject: "Link Your Web Site" To IndustrySearch.Com X-Mailer: WM - IndustrySearch.Com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Increase traffic to your company's web site with a FREE Hyperlink to IndustrySearch.Com. Thousands of industrial purchasing agents, buyers, engineers and others searching for suppliers and services can locate your business easily with our USA Industrial Directory. You can visit IndustrySearch.Com at http://industrysearch.com "Link Your Web Site" to our USA Industrial Directory Data Base today! Visit IndustrySearch.Com at http://industrysearch.com and click on "Link Your Web Site" Thank you, K. Prater USA INDUSTRIAL DATA BASE MANAGEMENT To be removed from our mailing list, please click Reply and type "REMOVE" in the subject field To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 19:34:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from news.ks.edu.tw (news.ks.edu.tw [163.16.1.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9AD151FF for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from foxfair@news.ks.edu.tw) Received: from foxfair (tnt-82.ks.edu.tw [163.16.5.141]) by news.ks.edu.tw (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA11033 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:23:35 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from foxfair@news.ks.edu.tw) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:46:57 +0800 From: Foxfair Hu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE Message-Id: <3759E1212F8.6009FOXFAIR@news.ks.edu.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver 1.25.04 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In Sun Jun 6 00:32:29 1999, hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp said: [.......] :AFAIK, Big5 means a coding system only for traditional Chinese widely :used in Taiwan and Hong-Kong. :EUC-jp (Japanese), EUC-kr (Korean), and Big5 (Traditional Chinese) :occupies almost similar area in 16bit space. Our code can handle :these three coding systems and maybe GBK (Simplified Chinese) coding :system. I believe that our code also can handle ISO-8859-1 Latin :charsets. I can prepare French, German, and many European boot.flp if :there are translators for these languages. :The messages and help/document files of 3.2-RELEASE have already been :translated into Korean and are translating into Japanese. We need :translator and maintainer of Chinese messages. Count me in, I know there was a folk(maybe jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw) had hacked the source under http://wing-yee.ntc.keio.ac.jp/hosokawa/FreeBSD-boot/ and make 2.2.5-RELEASE have a chinese boot.flp. But jdli seems to have no free time to spend on this anymore :< I think I can take it. Cheers, -Foxfair. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 19:57:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486C14C22 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:57:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.224]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28152; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:57:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3759E380.B3A5ADFD@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:57:04 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Sedore Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Man pages for review References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christopher Sedore wrote: > > Sorry to be obtuse, but how would I read these? I tried various > derivations of http://freefall.cdrom.com/~wes, ~wpeters, etc. Oops, sorry. They're available now via the web, try: http://www.freebsd.org/~wes Maybe I'll get around to writing a index.html now that I have a "web presence" there. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 20: 3:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6709914D35 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA14094; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199906060302.UAA14094@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Socket Problem in 3.2? In-Reply-To: <199906051457.KAA10189@etinc.com> from Dennis at "Jun 5, 99 09:53:29 am" To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dennis writes: > I'm willing to investigate this, but I need some pointers on where to start. > > There seems to be a socket-level problem with 3.x...I havent tested it in > 3.1 yet but I do see it in 3.2. > > 2 Freebsd boxes connected back to back with a serial line..it happens to be > a T3 but the results are the same with any PTP line..one is 2.2.8 and the > other is 3.2. > The 2.2.8 machine is pinging the 3.2 machine...the link is brought down. > The 2.2.8 machine starts printing "sendto: network down" messages until the > 3.2 machine is brought back up, and then pinging resumes normally. > > However, when pinging from the 3.2 machine, the 2.2.8 machine is brought > down and the 3.2 machine just stops (no messages as if it doesnt detect the > link down)....then when the 2.2.8 machine is brought back up the ping does > not resume. A new ping session from the 3.2 box works normally indicating > the the link is working properly. I know that there were some changes/fixes to "ping" recently relating to this... you might want to check the CVS logs for clues. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 21:21:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6126F14D0A for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19523; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA14848; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906060421.VAA14848@vashon.polstra.com> To: evan@falcon.sourcee.com Subject: Re: Partitioning a freebsd partition on the fly In-Reply-To: <19990601131050.A27372@falcon.sourcee.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19990601131050.A27372@falcon.sourcee.com>, Evan Tsoukalas wrote: > My question is, can I shrink my /usr partition down without losing > what is on it? It is a 3.8 gig partition that only has 900 meg or > so on it. I would like to trim about a gigabyte off of it so that > I can install Windoze. Is this going to be possible, or should I > start from scratch installing Winoze first? The only way to shrink it is like this: * back up the filesystem to someplace using dump * shrink the partition * run newfs to create a filesystem on the resized partition * restore the data from your backup John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 21:28:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4BA14D0A for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19555; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:28:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA14906; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906060428.VAA14906@vashon.polstra.com> To: fretre@163.net Subject: Re: where is variable edata defined ? In-Reply-To: <000201beacec$98086960$85343f0a@k> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <000201beacec$98086960$85343f0a@k>, fretre wrote: > The variable such as _edata, _etext,_gdt are defined in the > file asnames.h(/usr/include/machine/asnames.h),but > 1. Where is the file that the variable such as edata,etext,gdt > are defined in? and I don't know about gdt. But edata and etext are provided automatically by the linker ("ld"). John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 5 22:53:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD3A14F3D for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id OAA24289; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:53:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:53:03 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906060553.OAA24289@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: foxfair@news.ks.edu.tw Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: pccard boot.flp for *plain* 3.2-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:46:57 JST". <3759E1212F8.6009FOXFAIR@news.ks.edu.tw> From: hosokawa@itc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21] 1997-12/23(Tue) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <3759E1212F8.6009FOXFAIR@news.ks.edu.tw> foxfair@news.ks.edu.tw writes: >> Count me in, I know there was a folk(maybe jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw) had >> hacked the source under http://wing-yee.ntc.keio.ac.jp/hosokawa/FreeBSD-boot/ >> and make 2.2.5-RELEASE have a chinese boot.flp. But jdli seems to have >> no free time to spend on this anymore :< I think I can take it. Thank you. Now I'm working on updated sysinstall messages. I'll send the URL of message.lt_EN, *.TXT, *.hlp files to translate when I finished this work. I want translators to other languages. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Assistant Manager Information Technology Center, Keio University To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message