From owner-freebsd-java Tue Feb 16 14:58:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A09B910F9C for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 7962 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Feb 1999 22:58:13 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:58:13 -0500 (EST) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: somewhat new to java questions Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Being fairly new to java but not new to C or C++, I'm finding myself running into a few walls. Most of which I find my way around, however right now I need to do two things that aren't making themselves obvious by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps they can't be done. Background: It's an Applet that's run from the browser. 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? 2) After all the boxes have been filled in and the Send button is pressed, I need to tell the browser to go to another URL (possibly a cgi). Is there something that will tell the browser to do it? I'm not really sure that this is what this list is about, but the traffic is rather low here so I thought I'd at least give this one a try. Thanks in advance, Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Feb 16 16:36:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (webbsd1.turnaround.com.au [203.39.138.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7293B10FE3 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:36:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Received: from tasshev (dhcp110.turnaround.com.au [192.168.1.110] (may be forged)) by WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03707; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:37:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Reply-To: From: "Joe Shevland" To: "Vince Vielhaber" , Subject: RE: somewhat new to java questions Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:31:56 +1100 Message-ID: <001e01be5a0c$ec29eab0$6e01a8c0@tasshev.turnaround.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G'day, -- Joe Shevland Principal Consultant Turnaround Solutions Pty. Ltd. Ph: +61-03-6224-9146 * Fax: +61-03-6223-2556 -- The best way to save face... is to keep the lower half shut -Anonymous > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Vince Vielhaber > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 9:58 AM > To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: somewhat new to java questions > > > > Being fairly new to java but not new to C or C++, I'm finding myself > running into a few walls. Most of which I find my way around, however > right now I need to do two things that aren't making themselves obvious > by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps they can't be done. > > Background: It's an Applet that's run from the browser. > > 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're > not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and > after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM > I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? Not in Java 1.0.2. But you can create a Frame class or Dialog class that behaves exactly the same (you can even modal-ise it without a parent Frame with a bit of work). > 2) After all the boxes have been filled in and the Send button is > pressed, I need to tell the browser to go to another URL (possibly > a cgi). Is there something that will tell the browser to do it? Yip, get the AppletContext from the Applet parent class. There's a method (can't recall off the top of my head) that redirects the browser, ... showPage( URL foo ) or showURL( URL foo ) I think. > I'm not really sure that this is what this list is about, but the traffic > is rather low here so I thought I'd at least give this one a try. Sounds fair, good to see a bit of traffic. HTH > Thanks in advance, > > Vince. > -- > ========================================================================== > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null > # include TEAM-OS2 > Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com > Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com > ========================================================================== > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 10:55:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from angel.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EFEF1154C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mail@chdev.com) Received: (qmail 16630 invoked from network); 19 Feb 1999 19:55:09 +0100 Received: from sdu250-237.ppp.algonet.se (HELO chdev.com) (195.163.237.250) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 19 Feb 1999 19:55:09 +0100 Message-ID: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:59:05 +0100 From: Christer Hermansson Organization: CH development X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Vince. Vince Vielhaber wrote: > Being fairly new to java but not new to C or C++, I'm finding myself > running into a few walls. Most of which I find my way around, however > right now I need to do two things that aren't making themselves obvious > by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps they can't be done. > > Background: It's an Applet that's run from the browser. > > 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're > not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and > after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM > I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? I don't know about any thing like MessageBox in AWT or Swing but check out this http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html > > 2) After all the boxes have been filled in and the Send button is > pressed, I need to tell the browser to go to another URL (possibly > a cgi). Is there something that will tell the browser to do it? I would use something like this: URL url = null; try { url = new URL("http://www.javasoft.com"); } catch (MalformedURLException ex) { System.err.println("Malformed URL !"); } if (url != null) { AppletContext appletContext = getAppletContext(); appletContext.showDocument(url); } else { System.err.println("url == null !"); } > > > I'm not really sure that this is what this list is about, but the traffic > is rather low here so I thought I'd at least give this one a try. > > Thanks in advance, > > Vince. > -- > ========================================================================== > Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null > # include TEAM-OS2 > Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com > Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com > ========================================================================== > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message -- CH development Christer Hermansson Rostocksgatan 27A 464 31 Mellerud Sweden mailto:mail@chdev.com http://www.chdev.com Phone:+46(0)530-13420 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 17:12:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0C811A2B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA19694; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:12:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:12:39 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Christer Hermansson Cc: Vince Vielhaber , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Christer Hermansson wrote: # > 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're # > not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and # > after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM # > I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? # # I don't know about any thing like MessageBox in AWT or Swing but check out # this http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html How about JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(...)? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 17:39:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37CE61160B for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:39:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA15865; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA22208; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:38:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:38:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve Price Cc: Christer Hermansson , Vince Vielhaber , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > # > 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're > # > not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and > # > after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM > # > I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? > # > # I don't know about any thing like MessageBox in AWT or Swing but check out > # this http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html > > How about JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(...)? Using Swing inside applets is problematic unless the users have the Java-Plugin as well as a cached copy of the Swing classfiles. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 18: 0:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from stcgate.statcan.ca (stcgate.statcan.ca [142.206.192.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9281D10E6E for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeays@statcan.ca) Received: from stcinet (stcinet.statcan.ca [142.206.128.146]) by stcgate.statcan.ca (8.9.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA26829 For ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:07:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from statcan.ca by statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA07123; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:00:21 -0500; sender jeays@statcan.ca Message-ID: <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:59:42 -0500 From: Mike Jeays Organization: Statistics Canada X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I get the feeling that the Java Emperor has no clothes. The amount of code you need to write to do almost anything in terms of a GUI implementation in Java seems to be much larger and harder to write and understand than in TK/TCL. This example of a MessageBox seems quite intimidating! Furthermore, the performance seems much worse, seen from my perspective of FreeBSD, Java 1.1 and Swing compared with TK/TCL 8.0. And inter-platform compatibility, at least between Unix and Windows, seems about equivalent. What am I missing? (No, its not a troll. I am genuinely puzzled.) -- Mike Jeays : System Development Division, Statistics Canada 14-O R.H. Coats Building, Holland Avenue, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0T6 Voice (613)-951-9929 FAX 951-0607 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 18:41:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D0411B7C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:41:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA16335; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA22415; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:41:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:41:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199902200241.TAA22415@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Jeays Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The amount of code you need to write to do almost anything > in terms of a GUI implementation in Java seems to be > much larger and harder to write and understand than in > TK/TCL. Beaty is in the eye of the beholder. :) > This example of a MessageBox seems quite intimidating! Not with Swing. With Swing, it's trivial. But, this only works easily in applications, not applets. > Furthermore, the performance seems much worse, seen from > my perspective of FreeBSD, Java 1.1 and Swing compared with > TK/TCL 8.0. Of this there is little doubt. Java performs very poorly on FreeBSD due to the lack of JIT. Even though TCL is an interpreted language, the interpreter is much faster. > And inter-platform compatibility, at least between Unix and > Windows, seems about equivalent. I can't speak to that since I've never used the Windows version of TCL/TK. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 20:17:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0726810E58 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 18990 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Feb 1999 04:17:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:17:33 -0500 (EST) From: Vince Vielhaber To: Steve Price Cc: Christer Hermansson , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Steve Price wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Christer Hermansson wrote: > > # > 1) I check the lengths of the data in a few TextFields and if they're > # > not at least a certain length I need to pop up a box that says so and > # > after they click on OK they can fix it. In both Windows and OS/2-PM > # > I had a function called MessageBox. Is there something similar here? > # > # I don't know about any thing like MessageBox in AWT or Swing but check out > # this http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/dialog.html > > How about JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(...)? > > I think something similar is what was in the above url. I looked at it but only briefly. Whatever the case it's Swing. Who much overhead does swing add? I'm trying to keep the applet as tiny as possible. BTW, the URL problem was solved by the first person that responded, sorry I don't have his name handy, but Thanks!! Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 20:39:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 109F110E83 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 19031 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Feb 1999 04:39:30 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: Vince Vielhaber To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Mike Jeays wrote: > I get the feeling that the Java Emperor has no clothes. > > The amount of code you need to write to do almost anything > in terms of a GUI implementation in Java seems to be > much larger and harder to write and understand than in > TK/TCL. This example of a MessageBox seems quite intimidating! > > Furthermore, the performance seems much worse, seen from > my perspective of FreeBSD, Java 1.1 and Swing compared with > TK/TCL 8.0. > > And inter-platform compatibility, at least between Unix and > Windows, seems about equivalent. > > What am I missing? (No, its not a troll. I am genuinely puzzled.) The dilemna I'm looking at (which is solved with Java) is something that will safely take credit card info and move it to another machine. While it's true that I can get a secure web server and a certificate, lets face it.. Someone's smokin dope if they think a new business is gonna have the cash and overhead to implement such a thing. My choices were the linux e-commerce thing for $100 (which I almost did but the folks at RedHat couldn't seem to send me a copy of the license), going illegal and running apache-ssl without the license, getting the license from RSA (at US$10K) or taking the advise of an old professor that had a question that we were to always ask ourselves before answering, "Can I do it better?". The only palletable answer was, "Yes, I can do it better". So I wrote a java applet that uses noone's copyrighted, patented, pay-me-to-use-it encryption schemes and appears to be secure enuf to use. Right now the only requirement is that Netscape 4.5 be used. One day I hope to be able to release it so everyone can benefit. Thanks to all who've had suggestions, whether I was able to use 'em or not. Now the challenge to the Java Community is to write something save, secure, reusable, distributable, and small that it will help to promote the little guy put his business on the web. I also wrote a shopping cart program. As soon as the bugs are found and squished, that will be released with the same hopes in mind. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 21: 6:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B7E116D5 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17310; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:05:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA22643; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:05:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:05:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199902200505.WAA22643@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Jeays Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> <199902200241.TAA22415@mt.sri.com> <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Furthermore, the performance seems much worse, seen from > > > my perspective of FreeBSD, Java 1.1 and Swing compared with > > > TK/TCL 8.0. > > > > Of this there is little doubt. Java performs very poorly on FreeBSD due > > to the lack of JIT. Even though TCL is an interpreted language, the > > interpreter is much faster. > > Hopefully a JIT will appear soon. See the FreeBSD java WWW page for a couple of JITs. ShuJIT appears to work quite well. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Feb 19 21:22:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from stcgate.statcan.ca (stcgate.statcan.ca [142.206.192.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829501172F for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeays@statcan.ca) Received: from stcinet (stcinet.statcan.ca [142.206.128.146]) by stcgate.statcan.ca (8.9.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00416; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from statcan.ca by statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA09196; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:28:59 -0500; sender jeays@statcan.ca Message-ID: <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:28:20 -0500 From: Mike Jeays Organization: Statistics Canada X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> <199902200241.TAA22415@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nate Williams wrote: > > > The amount of code you need to write to do almost anything > > in terms of a GUI implementation in Java seems to be > > much larger and harder to write and understand than in > > TK/TCL. > > Beaty is in the eye of the beholder. :) > > > This example of a MessageBox seems quite intimidating! > > Not with Swing. With Swing, it's trivial. But, this only works easily > in applications, not applets. I haven't tried writing any code for Swing yet. I got discouraged by the performance of the demos - although I was very impressed with the general appearance and style of the various widgets. > > > Furthermore, the performance seems much worse, seen from > > my perspective of FreeBSD, Java 1.1 and Swing compared with > > TK/TCL 8.0. > > Of this there is little doubt. Java performs very poorly on FreeBSD due > to the lack of JIT. Even though TCL is an interpreted language, the > interpreter is much faster. Hopefully a JIT will appear soon. > > > And inter-platform compatibility, at least between Unix and > > Windows, seems about equivalent. > > I can't speak to that since I've never used the Windows version of > TCL/TK. I have. I was impressed with how TCL/TK apps will port with very few changes. You just have to be careful with file references; most other things seem transparent. > > Nate -- Mike Jeays : System Development Division, Statistics Canada 14-O R.H. Coats Building, Holland Avenue, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0T6 Voice (613)-951-9929 FAX 951-0607 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Feb 20 15:24:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E11119D7 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org ([205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.92 #8) id 10EHmg-0005jY-00; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:09:50 -0800 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04451; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:58:59 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:58:59 -0800 (PST) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Mike Jeays wrote: > > The dilemna I'm looking at (which is solved with Java) is something > that will safely take credit card info and move it to another machine. > While it's true that I can get a secure web server and a certificate, > lets face it.. Someone's smokin dope if they think a new business is > gonna have the cash and overhead to implement such a thing. My choices > were the linux e-commerce thing for $100 (which I almost did but the > folks at RedHat couldn't seem to send me a copy of the license), going > illegal and running apache-ssl without the license, getting the license > from RSA (at US$10K) or taking the advise of an old professor that had Stronghold isn't nearly that expensive (I think it's around US$1K now.) It's basicly a fully licensed Apache with SSL. http://www.c2.net/ And it's a tax-deductable business expense. (If you value your time as low as $25/hr, you'd still need to be able to develop your app in less than 40 hours to break even; even without counting the tax deduction.) > a question that we were to always ask ourselves before answering, "Can > I do it better?". The only palletable answer was, "Yes, I can do it > better". So I wrote a java applet that uses noone's copyrighted, > patented, pay-me-to-use-it encryption schemes and appears to be secure > enuf to use. Right now the only requirement is that Netscape 4.5 be > used. One day I hope to be able to release it so everyone can benefit. What encryption schemes does it use? And what do you do about customers that might not want to, or might not be able to run Java applets? Personally, I wouldn't knowingly trust my credit card number to anything that hadn't been thoroughly reviewed by the crypto wonks... -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Feb 20 15:55:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 15D6210E05 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 24006 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Feb 1999 23:55:36 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:55:36 -0500 (EST) From: Vince Vielhaber To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 patl@phoenix.volant.org wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Mike Jeays wrote: > > > > The dilemna I'm looking at (which is solved with Java) is something > > that will safely take credit card info and move it to another machine. > > While it's true that I can get a secure web server and a certificate, > > lets face it.. Someone's smokin dope if they think a new business is > > gonna have the cash and overhead to implement such a thing. My choices > > were the linux e-commerce thing for $100 (which I almost did but the > > folks at RedHat couldn't seem to send me a copy of the license), going > > illegal and running apache-ssl without the license, getting the license > > from RSA (at US$10K) or taking the advise of an old professor that had > > Stronghold isn't nearly that expensive (I think it's around US$1K now.) > It's basicly a fully licensed Apache with SSL. http://www.c2.net/ > And it's a tax-deductable business expense. (If you value your time > as low as $25/hr, you'd still need to be able to develop your app in > less than 40 hours to break even; even without counting the tax deduction.) Plus the certificate. For about $125 you can get the Thawte, but that's not taken at face value. > > > > a question that we were to always ask ourselves before answering, "Can > > I do it better?". The only palletable answer was, "Yes, I can do it > > better". So I wrote a java applet that uses noone's copyrighted, > > patented, pay-me-to-use-it encryption schemes and appears to be secure > > enuf to use. Right now the only requirement is that Netscape 4.5 be > > used. One day I hope to be able to release it so everyone can benefit. > > What encryption schemes does it use? And what do you do about customers > that might not want to, or might not be able to run Java applets? Imagine a deck of cards. Write one piece of info on each card. Then play games with the values (randomly) on each card. No two cards are to be treated the same way. Now add another deck with random values of meaningless data. Now shuffle the spots off of it. Now play with the values again on each card individually. Shuffle and send to the host machine. The games played with each value throughout the entire process is based off of other values encountered along the way. This is actually a rather generic description, I wasn't anywhere near this simple in the process. I was thinking of MY creditcard as I wrote it! > > Personally, I wouldn't knowingly trust my credit card number to anything > that hadn't been thoroughly reviewed by the crypto wonks... I would hope that noone would knowingly be that free and careless with their creditcard info. The sad fact of the matter is that too many people are. I offer three ways to pay for a purchase: the Java applet (which is my first preference), picking up the phone and calling it in and using an unsecured form. Note, the phone method is available 24 hours a day. The last thing I'd ever want to do would be to aid in the demise of e-commerce. Too many have too much at stake. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Feb 20 16: 3:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E90411A59 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@saphire.East.Sun.COM) Received: from East.Sun.COM ([129.148.1.241]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id QAA14445; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:03:14 -0800 Received: from saphire.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id TAA11998; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:03:05 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by saphire.East.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id TAA17787; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:03:04 -0500 (EST) From: Anthony Kimball - High Performance Computing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:03:04 -0500 (EST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: Mike Jeays Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> <199902200241.TAA22415@mt.sri.com> <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14031.19698.515280.475528@saphire> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Jeays writes: > I haven't tried writing any code for Swing yet. I got discouraged > by the performance of the demos - although I was very impressed > with the general appearance and style of the various widgets. In general, swing apps perform better than awt apps. There is, however, a start-up penalty for using swing. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Feb 20 16:55:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17CC10E05 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:55:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26444; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:55:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA26092; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:54:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:54:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199902210054.RAA26092@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alk@pobox.com Cc: Mike Jeays , Nate Williams , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: somewhat new to java questions In-Reply-To: <14031.19698.515280.475528@saphire> References: <36CDB479.65A0EFC6@chdev.com> <199902200138.SAA22208@mt.sri.com> <36CE170E.3F11D82D@statcan.ca> <199902200241.TAA22415@mt.sri.com> <36CE39E4.7221ED5F@statcan.ca> <14031.19698.515280.475528@saphire> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I haven't tried writing any code for Swing yet. I got discouraged > > by the performance of the demos - although I was very impressed > > with the general appearance and style of the various widgets. > > In general, swing apps perform better than awt apps. Bwah, hah, hah, hah, hah hah. *tears running down my face* You're joking, right? I don't know where you get your results, but we *certainly* don't see this with a number of very real (commercial) applications. The most heavily used Swing components (Dialog boxes, JPanels, JLabel, JMenus, etc...) extend the standard AWT components, making them 'heavier' than the corresponding AWT components both in terms of memory and CPU use. It wasn't always the case, but for performance and internationalization reasons, many of the early 'light-weight' components became heavy-weight. This is not to say that we at SRI don't love Swing and all the features and functionality it provides, but to say that it performs better than AWT applications is humorous to me. Recent JFC/Swing releases have performed *much* better than earlier versions, but they certainly aren't faster than stock AWT versions, mostly for the reasons outlined above. Note, I can create toy applications that perform better, but anything significantly complex and usable will be *much* slower using Swing. Note however that creating these complex applications will be *MUCH* *MUCH* *MUCH* harder to create w/out Swing, since you as a programmer will end up re-creating much of the functionality that already exists in the Swing toolkit (although there are many 3rd party beans that provide many of the more useful features of Swing). Nate ps. We've used *every* version of Swing released publically, including the newest JDK1.1.1-Beta release. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message