From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10  2:36:32 1999
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From: Tom Huppi <th@huppi.com>
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Reply-To: Tom Huppi <tomth@huppi.com>
To: "Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
In-Reply-To: <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com>
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On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Paul M. Lambert wrote:

> Perhaps something like what is used in the perl newsgroups: a bot that
> autoresponds the first time an address sends a message, to say, "Here's
> a list of good places to look for answers."
> 
> It's a little more in-your-face, but being automated, a little harder
> to argue with.  (For example, it's easy to ignore an email reply to the
> bot that deserves to be ignored without making it seem like such a personal
> judgement).

I'd have welcomed it and dutifully filed it away with the rest of
my list_admin stuff...particularly if it had some good pointers to
resources.

> These are, of course, ideas.  The purpose here is brainstorming.
>
> --plambert

Here's a brainstorm/observation.  I appologize in advance if the
idea has been discussed here before...

My web host (who now has over 60,000 accounts and has been 100%
FreeBSD from day one, btw) has an ordinary old nntp server and a
series of internal newsgroups covering various topics.  Mail,
databases, etc. They apperently implemented it when the mailing
lists got out of hand, but it was before my time.  I love the
thing.  I can track interesting threads at my leisure using the
newsreader that I am familiar with.  They have not expired any
articles so I can search (the subject lines at least) back several
years.  The main problem is that if I lose my .newrc, I have to
download the headers again, but it is quite preferable (to me) to
recieving the 100-200 e-mails that I get from the lists that I am
on.  I'm one of those poor souls with a lousy connection.  I use
(and appreciate) the mailing list archive search, but am not
convinced that it always produces accurate results in terms of
threading. Certainly the output format is inferior to my
newsreader.

Anyway, said web host basically has their own paying customers
doing *lots* of their tech support for them simply because we like
the organization.  It's pretty neat, and it has totally eliminated
the need for me to pester anyone who's time would better be
spent doing systems administration, tuning, and planning.

-Tom

<snip>



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10  5: 8: 7 1999
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:05:44 +1000 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@freebsd.org>
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To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Bug in DNS implementations? 
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I've been trying to track down a problem with reverse DNS lookups
on a 3.1 system most of the day, and I may have found it.  Has anyone else
seen this?  The rev DNS for the box is handled by an NT machine, 5.6.7.1,
and this box is 5.6.7.190.  For some reason 190 could never reverse lookup
its own or other IPs in 5.6.7.

I started mucking around with nslookup, on .190 and on other machines.

3.1

# nslookup
Default Server:  localhost
Address:  127.0.0.1

> server server1.567.com.au.
Default Server:  server1.567.com.au
Address:  5.6.7.1

> ls 7.6.5.in-addr.arpa. > /tmp/7
[server1.techinfo.com.au]
###
Received 168 answers (0 records).      <<<<--- note zero records
> ls 7.6.5.in-addr.arpa. > /tmp/7
[server1.techinfo.com.au]
###
Received 168 answers (0 records).      <<<<---- again, same result

# cat /tmp/7
[server1.567.com.au]  
#

----
On a 2.2.8 machine, which runs bind 4.9.x, the results were more as 
expected:

> ls 7.6.5.in-addr.arpa. > /tmp/7
[server1.567.com.au]
###
Received 168 answers (168 records).   <<<<--- that's better.


---

I tried it on 3.2 and got the same result as on 3.1 - probably bind 8
talking to NT problem. Curiously, named on 3.1 was quite happy to
secondary the zone, so it appears to be a resolver issue, not named
itself.

Has anyone seen this problem before?  I'm happy to do tcpdumps etc for
anyone who wants to investigate this properly.

Danny



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10  6:52:16 1999
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From: Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
To: jack <jack@germanium.xtalwind.net>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910091640001.2367-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> 
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Subject: Re: merging current's jail functionality to stable 
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On 9 October 1999 at 16:51, jack <jack@germanium.xtalwind.net> wrote:
> 4Front Technologies' OSS sound driver is a KLD.  Better support,
> IMHO, and more cards supported that our stock sound card drivers.

This KLD doesn't use suser, however, and so would not be affected.

Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 11:29:15 1999
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:29:02 -0700
From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority
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To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@freebsd.org>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Bug in DNS implementations?
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Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to track down a problem with reverse DNS lookups
> on a 3.1 system most of the day, and I may have found it.  Has anyone else
> seen this?  The rev DNS for the box is handled by an NT machine, 5.6.7.1,

	Without telling us the actual IP's and hostnames involved it's not
possible to properly diagnose this problem. That said, NT's DNS
implementation is notorious for its interoperability problems. 

Good luck,

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 14:45:52 1999
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:45:32 +0200
From: Ruben van Staveren <ruben@luna.net>
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: splash/AGP card weirdness ?
Message-ID: <19991010234532.A17491@supra.rotterdam.luna.net>
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Hello,

I'm currently using a Daimond FireGL 100Pro AGP card and can't get
the splash screen to work :P

it always complains with the following:
splash_bmp: No appropriate video mode found

On an other system with a PCI vga card I detected something weird:
the lack of modelines with vidcontrol -i mode

    mode#     flags   type    size       font      window      linear buffer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 24 (0x018) 0x00000001 T 80x25           8x16  0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
 30 (0x01e) 0x00000001 T 80x50           8x8   0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
 32 (0x020) 0x00000001 T 80x30           8x16  0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
 34 (0x022) 0x00000001 T 80x60           8x8   0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
200 (0x0c8) 0x00000001 T 80x25           8x16  0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
201 (0x0c9) 0x00000001 T 80x30           8x16  0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
203 (0x0cb) 0x00000001 T 80x50           8x8   0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k
204 (0x0cc) 0x00000001 T 80x60           8x8   0xb8000 32k 32k 0x00000000  0k

fb0:
    vga0, type:VGA (5), flags:0x7007f
    initial mode:24, current mode:24, BIOS mode:3

vga0: <VGA-compatible display device> rev 0x01 int a irq 16 on pci1.0.0
sc0 on isa
sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa


turning on/off the VESA option in kernel has no effect.

It can mean two things:
a. the FireGL does not have a VESA compliant bios (or none at all)
   and that is strange as a friend of mine got his PCI (???) FireGL
   card working with the splash boot screen.
b. it is an AGP/splash `compatibility' problem.

Clues anyone ?

Regards,
	Ruben

p.s.
	the other weird thing is that I was even unable to change the console
	to e.g. 80x60 with vidcontrol :P

-- 
Ruben van Staveren  -   PGP public key on request   -  ruben@luna.net
U'nix, because I'm worth it _ //  You too ? -  Luna Internet Services
+31-(0)10.243.1988          \X/   Postbus 28013 3003 KA  Rotterdam NL
echo `echo "xiun"|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)x un\2\1 is xg'`ol


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 15:23: 8 1999
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To: Ruben van Staveren <ruben@luna.net>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: splash/AGP card weirdness ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:45:32 +0200."
             <19991010234532.A17491@supra.rotterdam.luna.net> 
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> =

> It can mean two things:
> a. the FireGL does not have a VESA compliant bios (or none at all)
>    and that is strange as a friend of mine got his PCI (???) FireGL
>    card working with the splash boot screen.

You need to send us the output of 'vidcontrol -i mode' on the system =

that's actually having problems, not some other random machine (what =

use is _that_?).  =


Note that a lot of cards these days don't have decent VESA support =

anymore.  I can recommend the 3dFX Voodoo3 cards; some excerpts from =

the mode table:

259 (0x103) 0x0000000f G 800x600x8 1     8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
276 (0x114) 0x0000000f G 800x600x16 1    8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
277 (0x115) 0x0000000f G 800x600x24 1    8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
261 (0x105) 0x0000000f G 1024x768x8 1    8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
279 (0x117) 0x0000000f G 1024x768x16 1   8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
280 (0x118) 0x0000000f G 1024x768x24 1   8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
263 (0x107) 0x0000000f G 1280x1024x8 1   8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
282 (0x11a) 0x0000000f G 1280x1024x16 1  8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k
283 (0x11b) 0x0000000f G 1280x1024x24 1  8x16  0xa0000 64k 64k 0xe0000000=
 16384k

> b. it is an AGP/splash `compatibility' problem.

No such thing.

Check your dmesg output for something like this:

VESA: v3.0, 16384k memory, flags:0x1, mode table:0xc02b1cb7 (1000117)
VESA: 3dfx Interactive, Inc.

If it's not there, you don't have a VESA BIOS and you are stuck with a =

very limited set of video modes for your splash image.  If this upsets =

you, go complain to your video card vendor.

-- =

\\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
\\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 16: 0:40 1999
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References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au>
 <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:34:13 +0200
To: "Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
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At 9:10 PM -0700 1999/10/9, Paul M. Lambert wrote:

> It would be even better if it could be placed _between_ users and the
> mailing list, just like the perl bot is in comp.lang.perl.misc, so that
> a message sent to the list isn't posted until the sender replies to the
> automated short FAQ and so forth first.

	IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd 
mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an 
automated response.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 16:47:46 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:51:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barrett Richardson <barrett@phoenix.aye.net>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: Chris Parry <laotzu@juniper.net>, blk@skynet.be,
	stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
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On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:

> 
> But I'd rather intercept these before they reach a developer, and
> point said newbie at a web page that says "This is how you submit a
> NIC driver report."  Make the page very detailed.  Show said newbie
> that they, too, can actually gather the necessary information to file
> a useful and sensible PR.  By the time said developer checks his mail,
> I want him to see not only the trouble report, but the reply that
> says, "Check out http://..../nic-trouble-report.html"
> 

As an end user something I could make use of is a periodic
posting at regular intervals of some basic info on where to find
stuff like http://..../nic-trouble-report.html. What consists
of a problem that should be presented in -hackers, -current,
-stable .... etc. Maybe some links to stuff like Greg's tips
on formatting e-mail, using -question effectively. A pointer
on where to find information on how to collect useful 
information from a panic, stuff like that. Just kind of
a mini FAQ or HOWTO that explains how to "go with the flow"
when presenting problems.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 17:49:45 1999
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
To: Ruben van Staveren <ruben@luna.net>
Subject: RE: splash/AGP card weirdness ?
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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On 10-Oct-99 Ruben van Staveren wrote:
> It can mean two things:
> a. the FireGL does not have a VESA compliant bios (or none at all)
>    and that is strange as a friend of mine got his PCI (???) FireGL
>    card working with the splash boot screen.

The VESA BIOS for the AGP card may require a software driver to fully
enable the VESA graphics modes.  If so, you aren't going to be able to
use them for splash screens.

> b. it is an AGP/splash `compatibility' problem.

Nope, my AGP Matrox G200 works great.  

> Clues anyone ?
> 
> Regards,
>       Ruben
> 
> p.s.
>       the other weird thing is that I was even unable to change the
> console
>       to e.g. 80x60 with vidcontrol :P

You need to load the 8x16 fonts for this to work.  Check the
vidcontrol(1) and rc.conf(5) man pages.

---

John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu> -- http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/
PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.FreeBSD.org/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sun Oct 10 21:38:28 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:38:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Jeffrey J. Libman" <jeffrl@wantabe.com>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: make buildworld fails
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here i go again. just did a cvsup stable-supfile, and am attempting to
make buildworld. i get:

===> share/man/man4/man4.i386
make: don't know how to make tk.4. Stop
*** Error code 2
1 error

now what?

cheers,
jeff

                                |
                                |\            +------------------------------+
Jeffrey J. Libman, ops. mgr.    | \           |  Wantabe Internet Services   |
Wantabe, Inc.                   |__\          +------------------------------+
jeffrl@wantabe.com        <-----|------>      | access web cgi ftp news mail |
(281) 493-0718       __,.-=\'`^`'~=-../__,.-= +------------------------------+



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11  0:53:41 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:53:13 +0200
From: Ruben van Staveren <ruben@luna.net>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: splash/AGP card weirdness ?
Message-ID: <19991011095313.F18298@supra.rotterdam.luna.net>
References: <19991010234532.A17491@supra.rotterdam.luna.net> <199910102215.PAA08194@dingo.cdrom.com>
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On Sun, Oct 10, 1999 at 03:15:08PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> > 
> > It can mean two things:
> > a. the FireGL does not have a VESA compliant bios (or none at all)
> >    and that is strange as a friend of mine got his PCI (???) FireGL
> >    card working with the splash boot screen.
> 
> You need to send us the output of 'vidcontrol -i mode' on the system 
> that's actually having problems, not some other random machine (what 
> use is _that_?).  

The mode table I send along with my first post is the mode table of
the machine with the FireGL AGP card. The other boxes (where the splash
works) has indeed much more mode lines.

> 
> Check your dmesg output for something like this:
> 
> VESA: v3.0, 16384k memory, flags:0x1, mode table:0xc02b1cb7 (1000117)
> VESA: 3dfx Interactive, Inc.

Not in here, I'm toasted :)

> -- 
> \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
> \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
> \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com
> 

Thanks for the info,
	Ruben


-- 
Ruben van Staveren  -   PGP public key on request   -  ruben@luna.net
U'nix, because I'm worth it _ //  You too ? -  Luna Internet Services
+31-(0)10.243.1988          \X/   Postbus 28013 3003 KA  Rotterdam NL
echo `echo "xiun"|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)x un\2\1 is xg'`ol


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11  5:17:29 1999
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From: Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
To: Will Andrews <will@shadow.blackdawn.com>
Cc: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <19991010204844.A9523@shadow.blackdawn.com> 
References: <19991008170540.A1618@fever.semiotek.com> <19991010204844.A9523@shadow.blackdawn.com>
Subject: Re: chroot jail in pre 4.0 
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[Crossposting to -stable and -security, but Reply-To: set to -stable.]

On 10 October 1999 at 20:48, Will Andrews <will@shadow.blackdawn.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 05:05:40PM -0400, Justin Wells wrote:
> Actually.. Jacques Vidrine <nectar@FreeBSD.ORG> is in the process of (has
> finished?) backporting jail(2,8) to -STABLE. 

Patches for -STABLE can be found at http://www.nectar.com/freebsd/jail.html.

> This is currently being
> discussed on freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG. So far, however, I'm pretty
> certain that the developers will choose not to commit due to a small
> chance that the commit may break binaries (KLD's) built by third-party
> vendors (if any). Jacques questions whether there are any or not.. please
> see freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG mailing list archives.

So far, the community on -STABLE has identified one third-party KLD
(from 4Front), but it does not use suser and therefore wouldn't be
broken.

For the sake of discussion, I've also made a set of patches that
retain binary compatibility.  It demonstrates the cost of binary
compatibility well.  One would have to traverse the process list on
every call to suser.  (You need to access the proc structure to
implement the jail functionality, but suser only gets the ucred
structure).

At the moment, I'm of the opinion that binary compatibility with 3rd
party KLDs is unimportant, given the number of KLDs that use suser
that I know of (zero).  Time will tell if there are more.

Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11  8:30:48 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0999514BE7
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	(envelope-from mwlucas)
From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910111530.LAA40201@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Help Request guides
To: stable@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:30:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Folks,

I've written up two descriptions of solid problem reports, one for
Ethernet NICs and one for dialup PPP.  These are for people who are
considering sending requests for help to -questions.

You can find them at http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~dispatch/report/

I would appreciate any comments on on what I've missed, especially
from anyone who can actually solve in-depth, honest-to-god *problems*
of this sort.

Note that these are just on specifics for the particular problems --
i.e, what should be in a NIC report that doesn't normally appear in a
generic problem report.

I've chosen to call these "Help Request Guidelines" rather than
"Problem report Guidelines" for two reasons.  One, we already have
PRs.  Two, "Error Between Chair and Keyboard" is not our problem.  ;)

==ml


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11  9: 6:54 1999
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From: "Jason Portwood" <jason@iac.net>
To: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: stable build failing... + question
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:05:13 -0400
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Hopefully this is the right place to report this sort of thing...

cvsup to stable today from cvsup.freebsd.org yesterdays attempt was from
cvsup3.freebsd.org...  I thought it could have been me (yesterdays was a new
build from CD) at first but two different machines have bombed. Or perhaps
I'm just good at duplicating my own error?

My cvsup file

*default tag=RELENG_3
*default host=cvsup.freebsd.org
*default prefix=/usr
*default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup
*default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix
src-all
cvs-crypto

--

make -DNOPROFILE=true buildworld

--

gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/ste.4 > ste.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/syscons.4 > syscons.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/sysmouse.4 > sysmouse.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/ti.4 > ti.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tl.4 > tl.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tw.4 > tw.4.gz
make: don't know how to make tk.4. Stop
*** Error code 2

Stop.
*** Error code 1

tk.4 is missing from /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/.  Either that or I
have truly messed something up.

Now the question:  Is there a test option in building to make sure all the
pieces are there?  Sanity check of sorts I guess.

Jason Portwood - jason@iac.net
Systems Administrator - Strategic/Internet Access Cincinnati
Sales and Tech Support - 513-860-9052





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11  9:12:23 1999
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910111612.MAA40445@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Re: stable build failing... + question
In-Reply-To: <6381A6A8826BD31199500090279CAFBA01C590@FOGHORN> from Jason Portwood at "Oct 11, 1999 12: 5:13 pm"
To: jason@iac.net (Jason Portwood)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:12:17 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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Yes, this is definitely the right place to report this.

This has been fixed.  Re-sup and build again.

==ml

> 
> Hopefully this is the right place to report this sort of thing...
> 
> cvsup to stable today from cvsup.freebsd.org yesterdays attempt was from
> cvsup3.freebsd.org...  I thought it could have been me (yesterdays was a new
> build from CD) at first but two different machines have bombed. Or perhaps
> I'm just good at duplicating my own error?
> 
> My cvsup file
> 
> *default tag=RELENG_3
> *default host=cvsup.freebsd.org
> *default prefix=/usr
> *default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup
> *default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix
> src-all
> cvs-crypto
> 
> --
> 
> make -DNOPROFILE=true buildworld
> 
> --
> 
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/ste.4 > ste.4.gz
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/syscons.4 > syscons.4.gz
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/sysmouse.4 > sysmouse.4.gz
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/ti.4 > ti.4.gz
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tl.4 > tl.4.gz
> gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tw.4 > tw.4.gz
> make: don't know how to make tk.4. Stop
> *** Error code 2
> 
> Stop.
> *** Error code 1
> 
> tk.4 is missing from /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/.  Either that or I
> have truly messed something up.
> 
> Now the question:  Is there a test option in building to make sure all the
> pieces are there?  Sanity check of sorts I guess.
> 
> Jason Portwood - jason@iac.net
> Systems Administrator - Strategic/Internet Access Cincinnati
> Sales and Tech Support - 513-860-9052
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 11: 1: 6 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:02:07 -0700
From: Stevan Arychuk <sa-list@avantgo.com>
Reply-To: sa-list@avantgo.com
Organization: AvantGo Inc.
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: dg@root.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness
References: <199910081833.LAA00799@dingo.cdrom.com>
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So if this problem is NOT related to specific hardware, how can we get
the driver fixed?

Stevan Arychuk
AvantGo Inc.
stevan@avantgo.com

Mike Smith wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for your response David.
> >
> > Do you think the problem is isolated to just the onboard devices?  Would
> > a PCI NIC help or is it the entire N440BX board?
> 
> We've seen these symptoms on non-Intel boards.  (eg. ASUS P2L, P2B).
> 
> --
> \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
> \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
> \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 11:31:23 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 51DCB14A2A; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com)
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To: sa-list@avantgo.com
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com,
	FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:02:07 PDT."
             <3802261F.BBEF68C3@avantgo.com> 
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> So if this problem is NOT related to specific hardware, how can we get
> the driver fixed?

Talk to the maintainer (David).  We've offered him cores and kernels 
before.  Alternatively, you'll need to experiment with your setup to 
determine what characterises the failures and help David out with more 
data.

> Stevan Arychuk
> AvantGo Inc.
> stevan@avantgo.com
> 
> Mike Smith wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks for your response David.
> > >
> > > Do you think the problem is isolated to just the onboard devices?  Would
> > > a PCI NIC help or is it the entire N440BX board?
> > 
> > We've seen these symptoms on non-Intel boards.  (eg. ASUS P2L, P2B).
> > 
> > --
> > \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
> > \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
> > \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 

-- 
\\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
\\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 12: 0:34 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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To: stable@freebsd.org
Subject: install-info error
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:12:17 EDT."
             <199910111612.MAA40445@blackhelicopters.org> 
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:00:22 -0400
From: Xiaowei Yang <yxw@cordelia.lcs.mit.edu>
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Hi,

I just upgraded my system to "*default release=cvs
tag=RELENG_3_3_0_RELEASE". 

I had the ignored error from make installworld:

"install-info: Undefined error: 0 for /usr/share/info/dir"

I am asking for a "classic" way to fix this. 

Thanks,

--Xiaowei





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 14: 6: 3 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Mike Meyer <mwm@phone.net>
To: stable@freebsd.org
Subject: jdk 1.2 for -stable?
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I've got a client that needs some things written in Java - using Sun's
JDK 1.2. Does anyone know where I might find such? How about if a
Linux version that works properly - including full thread support - on
the Linux emulation? If it doesn't happen, I'll wind up installing
Linux :-(.

	Thanx,
	<mike





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 14:42:24 1999
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From: "Jimmy Zongos" <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: NICs
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:40:53 -0700
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i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000 =
compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i =
was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me if =
it can

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</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card =
and it says=20
its ne2000 compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt =
work and i=20
was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me if =
it=20
can</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 15:20:16 1999
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From: "Jason Portwood" <jason@iac.net>
To: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: wow - RE: stable build failing...
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:13:24 -0400
Message-ID: <6381A6A8826BD31199500090279CAFBA01C5A0@FOGHORN>
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Just call me a stable building fool...  two in one day!  The other machine
did make it through the build.

cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 posix4/*.h
/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/posix4
cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 sys/*.h
/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/sys
cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 vm/*.h
/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/vm
cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444
isofs/cd9660/*.h  /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/isofs/cd9660
cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 ufs/ffs/*.h
/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ufs/ffs
install: ufs/ffs/softdep.h: No such file or directory
*** Error code 71

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Jason Portwood - jason@iac.net
Systems Administrator - Strategic/Internet Access Cincinnati
Sales and Tech Support - 513-860-9052




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 15:31: 8 1999
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From: "Jimmy Zongos" <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: NE2000
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:29:42 -0700
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Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that =
will work in freebsd

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 =
compatible card=20
for pretty cheap that will work in freebsd</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 15:34:12 1999
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To: Jason Portwood <jason@iac.net>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: wow - RE: stable build failing...
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Jason Portwood wrote:

> 
> Just call me a stable building fool...  two in one day!  The other machine
> did make it through the build.
> 
> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 posix4/*.h
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/posix4
> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 sys/*.h
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/sys
> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 vm/*.h
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/vm
> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444
> isofs/cd9660/*.h  /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/isofs/cd9660
> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 ufs/ffs/*.h
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ufs/ffs
> install: ufs/ffs/softdep.h: No such file or directory
> *** Error code 71
> 
> Stop.
> *** Error code 1
> 

softupdates were moved from /usr/src/contrib/sys/softupdates to
/usr/src/sys/contrib/softupdates .  Update your links in /sys/ufs/ffs


-----
Chris D. Faulhaber <jedgar@fxp.org>  |  All the true gurus I've met never
System/Network Administrator,        |  claimed they were one, and always
Reality Check Information, Inc.      |  pointed to someone better.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 15:39:31 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:38:47 +1100 (EST)
From: Iain Templeton <iaint@css.tuu.utas.edu.au>
To: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
In-Reply-To: <000801bf1378$e5332200$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:

> i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000
> compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i
> was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me
> if it can
> 
If its based on the RealTek 8029 chipset then it should. (I have a NIC at
home which calls itself an SN2000 and is based on that chip so).

It uses the ed driver.

Iain.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 15:42:40 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	id CAA5D1CD585; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
To: Jason Portwood <jason@iac.net>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: wow - RE: stable build failing...
In-Reply-To: <6381A6A8826BD31199500090279CAFBA01C5A0@FOGHORN>
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Jason Portwood wrote:

> cd /usr/src/include/../sys;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444 ufs/ffs/*.h
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ufs/ffs
> install: ufs/ffs/softdep.h: No such file or directory

This one looks like your fault; you probably haven't followed the
instructions re using softupdates. See the README.

Kris

----
XOR for AES -- join the campaign!



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 16:16:51 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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To: Mike Meyer <mwm@phone.net>
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Subject: Re: jdk 1.2 for -stable?
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> I've got a client that needs some things written in Java

FYI, these type of questions are best sent to the freebsd-java list.
However, before doing that, it would benefit you to read the WWW page
for FreeBSD/Java, as well as browse the archives.

http://www.freebsd.org/java


Nate


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 16:32: 0 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:31:54 +1100 (EST)
From: Iain Templeton <iaint@css.tuu.utas.edu.au>
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: NICs (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121031090.87715-100000@depravitas.tuu.utas.edu.au>
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Sent to me, although probably more appropriate for the list.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:43:08 -0400
From: Coleman Kane <cokane@one.net>
To: Iain Templeton <iaint@css.tuu.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: NICs

Thus spoke Iain Templeton <iaint@css.tuu.utas.edu.au>, and it was proclaimed:

> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:
> 
> > i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000
> > compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i
> > was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me
> > if it can
> > 
> If its based on the RealTek 8029 chipset then it should. (I have a NIC at
> home which calls itself an SN2000 and is based on that chip so).
> 
> It uses the ed driver.
> 
> Iain.
>

It should've run is slackware too. Make sure you have all the settings correct,
sometimes the PnP feature doesn't work as planned.
Also make sure it doesn't conflict with another device on your system.
Typically, this could be IRQ3 for your serial port, or IRQ12 for your psaux
port, or IRQ7 for your Sound BLaster.
--cokane



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17: 7:48 1999
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: sa-list@avantgo.com, dg@root.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:22:30 PDT."
             <199910111822.LAA01100@dingo.cdrom.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:06:43 -0700
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>> So if this problem is NOT related to specific hardware, how can we get
>> the driver fixed?
>
>Talk to the maintainer (David).  We've offered him cores and kernels 
>before.  Alternatively, you'll need to experiment with your setup to 
>determine what characterises the failures and help David out with more 
>data.

   Hotmail has troubleshooted the problem down to the NCR controller. It
appears that the problem only occurs when using one of those. If they plug
in an Adaptec 2940 and use it instead of the onboard NCR then the problems
disappear.

-DG

David Greenman
Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org
Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com
Pave the road of life with opportunities.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:12:54 1999
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To: dg@root.com
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sa-list@avantgo.com,
	FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:06:43 PDT."
             <199910120006.RAA15131@implode.root.com> 
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:04:12 -0700
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> >> So if this problem is NOT related to specific hardware, how can we get
> >> the driver fixed?
> >
> >Talk to the maintainer (David).  We've offered him cores and kernels 
> >before.  Alternatively, you'll need to experiment with your setup to 
> >determine what characterises the failures and help David out with more 
> >data.
> 
>    Hotmail has troubleshooted the problem down to the NCR controller. It
> appears that the problem only occurs when using one of those. If they plug
> in an Adaptec 2940 and use it instead of the onboard NCR then the problems
> disappear.

We did this (you remember that we went through all this a while back, 
right?), but we've also been seing reports from people that aren't 
using NCR controllers.

-- 
\\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
\\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:18:46 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: sa-list@avantgo.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:04:12 PDT."
             <199910120004.RAA02842@dingo.cdrom.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:17:54 -0700
Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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>> >> So if this problem is NOT related to specific hardware, how can we get
>> >> the driver fixed?
>> >
>> >Talk to the maintainer (David).  We've offered him cores and kernels 
>> >before.  Alternatively, you'll need to experiment with your setup to 
>> >determine what characterises the failures and help David out with more 
>> >data.
>> 
>>    Hotmail has troubleshooted the problem down to the NCR controller. It
>> appears that the problem only occurs when using one of those. If they plug
>> in an Adaptec 2940 and use it instead of the onboard NCR then the problems
>> disappear.
>
>We did this (you remember that we went through all this a while back, 
>right?), but we've also been seing reports from people that aren't 
>using NCR controllers.

   I haven't seen a report yet from someone not using an NCR/Symbios
controller.

-DG

David Greenman
Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org
Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com
Pave the road of life with opportunities.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:27:54 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:26:58 -0400
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com
From: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
Cc: FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199910120004.RAA02842@dingo.cdrom.com>
References: <Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:06:43 PDT."             <199910120006.RAA15131@implode.root.com>
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>>    Hotmail has troubleshooted the problem down to the NCR controller. It
>> appears that the problem only occurs when using one of those. If they plug
>> in an Adaptec 2940 and use it instead of the onboard NCR then the problems
>> disappear.
>
>We did this (you remember that we went through all this a while back, 
>right?), but we've also been seing reports from people that aren't 
>using NCR controllers.

Could it just be a particular BIOS setting affecting things as well ?  I
didnt look at the issue too closely, but on the SMP box below, I was having
inital problems until I re assigned the IRQs to be on more sane values if I
recall correctly (e.g not 9/11 or shared with something else).  I believe I
also looked at some DMA settings in the BIOS, but it has been a while since
I set this particular box up.  On the box below, the IRQ values displayed
in the dmesg, are not the same as what is displayed at boot up time.  With
it, I did get a few fxp time outs and such and the box did panic once.  It
could be something totally unrelated, but this discussion does ring a bell
with me.

Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: CPU: Pentium II/Xeon/Celeron (686-class CPU)
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x652  Stepping=2
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel:
Features=0x183fbff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,
CMOV,PAT,PSE36,MMX,<b24>>
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: real memory  = 536870912 (524288K bytes)
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: avail memory = 520007680 (507820K bytes)
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: Programming 24 pins in IOAPIC #0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: cpu0 (BSP): apic id:  1, version: 0x00040011,
at 0xfee00000
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: cpu1 (AP):  apic id:  0, version: 0x00040011,
at 0xfee00000
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: io0 (APIC): apic id:  2, version: 0x00170011,
at 0xfec00000
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf029e000.
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: chip0: <Intel 82443BX host to PCI bridge> rev
0x02 on pci0.0.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: chip1: <Intel 82443BX host to AGP bridge> rev 0x0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: 2 on pci0.1.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: chip2: <Intel 82371AB PCI to ISA bridge> rev
0x02 on pci0.4.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: chip3: <Intel 82371AB Power management
controller> rev 0x02 on pci0.4.3
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: fxp0: <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B
Ethernet> rev 0x05 int a irq 19 on pci0.9.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: fxp0: Ethernet address 00:90:27:25:bf:8f
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: ahc0: <Adaptec 2940 Ultra2 SCSI adapter> rev
0x00 int a irq 18 on pci0.10.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: ahc0: aic7890/91 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7,
16/255 SCBs
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: fxp1: <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B
Ethernet> rev 0x05 int a irq 17 on pci0.11.0
Aug  3 15:22:41 ns3 /kernel: fxp1: Ethernet address 00:90:27:0f:50:f3

**********************************************************************
Mike Tancsa, Network Admin        *  mike@sentex.net
Sentex Communications Corp,       *  http://www.sentex.net/mike
Cambridge, Ontario                *  01.519.651.3400
Canada                            *


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:30:36 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from samurai.dee.uc.pt (samurai.dee.uc.pt [193.136.205.41])
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:23:31 +0100 (WEST)
From: FreeBSD <freebsd@samurai.dee.uc.pt>
To: stable@freebsd.org
Cc: paulo@isr.uc.pt
Subject: make release fails with signal 12
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991012011921.65503B-100000@samurai.dee.uc.pt>
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Hi,

after "building world" from fresh sources, installing new kernel, and so
on. I decided to issue a make release that failled width a signal 12 and
checking in /usr/include/sys/signal.h what signal was involved I was
surprised by #define SIGSYS  12      /* non-existent system call
invoked*/.

Anyone else seing this?

Here go the last output lines
---
echo '#include "i386/perform.h"' >> tm.h
cc -c -O -pipe -I/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/egcs/gcc/config
-I/usr
/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/egcs/gcc -I. -fexceptions -DIN_GCC
-I/usr/o
bj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DL_mulsi3 -o _mulsi3.o
/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../..
/../contrib/egcs/gcc/libgcc1.c
*** Signal 12

Stop in /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/src.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.                 


Regards,

PMenezes



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:30:45 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:23:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jay Nelson <jdn@acp.qiv.com>
To: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NE2000
In-Reply-To: <000801bf137f$b73150a0$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:

>Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that will work in freebsd

Addtron's AE-200PNP-C currently sells for about $16.00. It's dumb as a
brick, no collision detection and slower than snot, but it works with 
the ed driver.

-- Jay



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:34: 4 1999
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To: Jay Nelson <jdn@acp.qiv.com>
Cc: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NE2000 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:23:02 CDT."
             <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910111921020.1372-100000@acp.qiv.com> 
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> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:
> 
> >Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that will work in freebsd
> 
> Addtron's AE-200PNP-C currently sells for about $16.00. It's dumb as a
> brick, no collision detection and slower than snot, but it works with 
> the ed driver.

For about $2.oo more you can get a "real" 10/100 card.  I can't see the 
savings, myself.

-- 
\\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
\\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 17:56:11 1999
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:56:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" <cdf.lists@fxp.org>
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To: FreeBSD <freebsd@samurai.dee.uc.pt>
Cc: stable@freebsd.org, paulo@isr.uc.pt
Subject: Re: make release fails with signal 12
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, FreeBSD wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> after "building world" from fresh sources, installing new kernel, and so
> on. I decided to issue a make release that failled width a signal 12 and
> checking in /usr/include/sys/signal.h what signal was involved I was
> surprised by #define SIGSYS  12      /* non-existent system call
> invoked*/.
> 
> Anyone else seing this?
> 
> Here go the last output lines
> ---
> echo '#include "i386/perform.h"' >> tm.h
> cc -c -O -pipe -I/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/egcs/gcc/config
> -I/usr
> /src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/egcs/gcc -I. -fexceptions -DIN_GCC
> -I/usr/o
> bj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DL_mulsi3 -o _mulsi3.o
> /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../..
> /../contrib/egcs/gcc/libgcc1.c
> *** Signal 12
> 
> Stop in /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc.
> *** Error code 1
> 

Are you specifying RELENG_3 for the release target?  The above appears to
be -CURRENT (note: egcs, which is not in -STABLE); in addition, the Signal
12 errors are indicative of the recent sigset_t changes in -CURRENT
recently.

-----
Chris D. Faulhaber <jedgar@fxp.org>  |  All the true gurus I've met never
System/Network Administrator,        |  claimed they were one, and always
Reality Check Information, Inc.      |  pointed to someone better.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 18: 0:27 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:00:18 -0700 (PDT)
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	(envelope-from chad)
From: "Chad R. Larson" <chad@DCFinc.com>
Message-Id: <199910120059.RAA08021@freeway.dcfinc.com>
Subject: Re: NE2000
In-Reply-To: <199910120025.RAA02976@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 11, 99 05:25:09 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:59:58 -0700 (MST)
Cc: jdn@acp.qiv.com, fatall@sheltonbbs.com,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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As I recall, Mike Smith wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:
>> 
>>>Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap
>>>Anyone that will work in freebsd
>> 
>> Addtron's AE-200PNP-C currently sells for about $16.00. It's dumb as a
>> brick, no collision detection and slower than snot, but it works with 
>> the ed driver.
> 
> For about $2.oo more you can get a "real" 10/100 card.  I can't see the 
> savings, myself.

Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B with the fxp driver have been rock
solid for me.  Avoiding hassles is worth more than a couple of bucks
in my world.


	-crl
--
Chad R. Larson (CRL15)   602-953-1392   Brother, can you paradigm?
chad@dcfinc.com         chad@larsons.org          larson1@home.net   
DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 18:23:56 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from amagai@nue.org)
Received: by may.nue.org (8.9.3/nue.mxn1); Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:23:53 +0900 (JST) <199910120123.KAA23167@may.nue.org> from 
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:23:53 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <199910120123.KAA23167@may.nue.org>
To: oxfair@FreeBSD.org
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org
From: amagai@nue.org
Subject: src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/Makefile
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Hi,

# $FreeBSD: src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/Makefile,v 1.95.2.12 1999/10/11 15:01:24 foxfair Exp $
> 1.95.2.12 Mon Oct 11 15:01:24 JST 1999 UTC by foxfair 
> Branch: RELENG_3 
> Diffs to 1.95.2.11 

> Quick fix in -stable : It's tw.4 not tk.4 , wpaul broke the world.

        spkr.4 splash.4 sr.4 ste.4 syscons.4 sysmouse.4 ti.4 tl.4 tw.4 \
        tw.4 ukbd.4 ums.4 usb.4 vga.4 vr.4 vx.4 \

There are two `tw.4', it's tx.4 not tw.4 , 

Thank you.

AMAGAI Yoshiji
New Unified Environment Project.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 19:16:21 1999
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:15:49 -0700
From: Scott Sewall <scott@iprg.nokia.com>
Organization: Nokia Communications
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386)
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To: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
References: <000801bf1378$e5332200$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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Use the setup utility shipped with the NIC to disable plug-n-play and set the I/O and IRQ manually.
Make sure FreeBSD is configured the to match.

I've used this NIC with FreeBSD 2.6, 2.7, 3.1, and 3.2.

-- Scott

Jimmy Zongos wrote:

> i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000 compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and
> i was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me if it can

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
&nbsp;
<br>Use the setup utility shipped with the NIC to disable plug-n-play and
set the I/O and IRQ manually.
<br>Make sure FreeBSD is configured the to match.
<p>I've used this NIC with FreeBSD 2.6, 2.7, 3.1, and 3.2.
<p>-- Scott
<p>Jimmy Zongos wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>i
got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000 compatible
but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i was wondering
if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me if it can</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 19:21:16 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:20:43 -0700
From: Scott Sewall <scott@iprg.nokia.com>
Organization: Nokia Communications
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To: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NE2000
References: <000801bf137f$b73150a0$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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I use the SN2000.  They're available at Fry's (CA) for about $11.00.

-- Scott


Jimmy Zongos wrote:

> Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that will work in freebsd

--------------42B6CA4E0172C50B9897D96B
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
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&nbsp;
<br>I use the SN2000.&nbsp; They're available at Fry's (CA) for about $11.00.
<p>-- Scott
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Jimmy Zongos wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Anyone
know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that will work
in freebsd</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 20:52: 5 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from kris@airnet.net)
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:50:45 -0500
From: Kris Kirby <kris@airnet.net>
Organization: Non Illegitemus Carborundum.
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To: Iain Templeton <iaint@css.tuu.utas.edu.au>
Cc: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910120937550.87200-100000@depravitas.tuu.utas.edu.au>
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Iain Templeton wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:
> 
> > i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000
> > compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i
> > was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me
> > if it can
> >
> If its based on the RealTek 8029 chipset then it should. (I have a NIC at
> home which calls itself an SN2000 and is based on that chip so).

No Iain, you're thinking of the SN3200. I have no less than four of
these little beasties around.
-- 
Kris Kirby 
<kris@airnet.net>
-------------------------------------------
TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 21:48:54 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:48:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: NICs
In-Reply-To: <000801bf1378$e5332200$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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        If it is NE2000 compatible, it should work with Linux or FreeBSD
no problem. In Linux, you want to use the "ne" kernel module if it is an
ISA card, or the "ne2k-pci" module if it is a PCI card. Slackware comes
with these modules and all you should have to do is run "modprobe
<module>".
        They should work in FreeBSD also -- although I couldn't give you
very specific details, as I don't know a whole lot about FreeBSD; that's
why I'm on this mailing list. =) But NE2000 cards are very standardized.
If you have trouble finding one that works, go to CompUSA and pick up a
$15-20 D-Link PCI NIC. These are NE2000 compatible and I've found that
they work rather well. Most any NE2000 compatible card should work though.

ttyl
Mike

"You should never stand in love's way,
especially when love is driving a bus."
   - R. M. Weiner

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:

> i got a computer with a sn2000 nic card and it says its ne2000
> compatible but when i try to run it in slackware it doesnt work and i
> was wondering if it would work in freebsd 3.3-stable please email me
> if it can
> 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Mon Oct 11 23:12:54 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from Martin@McFlySr.Kurgan.Ru)
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	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:12:25 +0600 (ESS)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:37:26 +0600
From: Martin McFlySr <Martin@McFlySr.Kurgan.Ru>
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To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: what wrong?
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Hello freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG,

#/usr/src/make world:
....
===> share/man/man4/man4.i386
...
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tl.4 > tl.4.gz
gzip -cn /usr/src/share/man/man4/man4.i386/tw.4 > tw.4.gz 
*** Error code 2                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     
*** Error code 1                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     
*** Error code 1                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     
*** Error code 1                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     
*** Error code 1                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     
*** Error code 1                                          
                                                          
Stop.                                                     

What wrong and what can i do for success "make world"?

Thank you.

FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE, last cvsup was make on 11-oct-99.


-- 
Tuesday, October 12, 1999,
11:35

Best regards from future,
Martin McFlySr, HillDale.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  3:41:44 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from chris@sdata.de)
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Message-ID: <3803105D.71806D25@sdata.de>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:41:33 +0200
From: Christoph Splittgerber <chris@sdata.de>
Organization: sdata - C. Splittgerber Datentechnik
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To: cjclark@home.com
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Subject: Re: Identifying an Unresolvable IP
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Beside whois [-a | -r | -p | ...]  <ip-address>, you could "traceroute
<ip-address>", find a host nearby the destination, and see if you can
resolve that hostname. Once you have the domain name of the nearby host,
find the nameserver (NS-record) for the domain and check if you can find
out more if you directly query that nameserver (nslookup <ip-address>
-<nameserver>), try to "list" the domain and "grep" for the
<ip-address>, or better check the SOA record and write an email to the
hostmaster.

Christoph


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  4: 2: 4 1999
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Message-ID: <38031526.187AFE2@sdata.de>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:01:58 +0200
From: Christoph Splittgerber <chris@sdata.de>
Organization: sdata - C. Splittgerber Datentechnik
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	freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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I wrote:
> 
> Beside whois [-a | -r | -p | ...]  <ip-address>, you could "traceroute

Arrrgggh !!! I crosposted my last email to the wrong mailing list ... it
was suppost to go to -security and not to -stable .... Sorry about this
!

Christoph


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  5:15:30 1999
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Reply-To: "Paul Horechuk" <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
From: "Paul Horechuk" <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
To: <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: X won't start
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:13:43 -0400
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Thanks for a couple of previous suggestions, but I still have the same
problem. I checked the symbolic link for X and it appeared correct, except
for the group access:

lrwxrwxr-x   1 root     12000       24 May 28 20:58 /usr/X11R6/bin/X ->
/usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_Mach64*

I recreated it as wheel.

Still no luck. FYI I get the following errors:

_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2
_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2
_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2
_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2
_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2
_X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2

_X11SERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener
_X11SERVTransSocketINetCreateListener:...SocketCreateListener() failed
_X11SERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to create listener for tcp

fatal server error:
failed to establish all listening sockets
giving up.


xinit: no such file or directory (errno2): unable to connect to X server
xinit: No such process (errno3): Server error

These errors occur if I login as root and immediately use startx.

If I go through /stand/sysinstall, answer OK and SAVE at the various prompts
for the XF86 Configure options, then quit out, I can run startx with no
problems.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  5:56:41 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:56:36 +0200 (CEST)
From: Ronald 'Ko' Klop <ronald@node11a94.a2000.nl>
To: Paul Horechuk <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: X won't start
In-Reply-To: <013001bf1446$b7718680$73f8d7a5@paul.docucom.ca>
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Paul Horechuk wrote:

> Thanks for a couple of previous suggestions, but I still have the same
> problem. I checked the symbolic link for X and it appeared correct, except
> for the group access:
> 
> lrwxrwxr-x   1 root     12000       24 May 28 20:58 /usr/X11R6/bin/X ->
> /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_Mach64*
> 

A link doesn't have (used) permissions. You must look to the permissions
of the file where the link points to.

Think about it. If the permissions of the link matter, everybody can make
a link to every program and give himself the permissions he/she likes.


Greetings,

Ronald.

-- 
Ronald Klop
http://node11a94.a2000.nl/~ronald/



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  6:28:52 1999
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From: "Jason Portwood" <jason@iac.net>
To: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: wow - RE: stable build failing...
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:27:09 -0400
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Well I guess I am the fool then.  Sorry to waste everyone's time on this and
thanks to all for solving my RTF-README problem.

>
>
> softupdates were moved from /usr/src/contrib/sys/softupdates to
> /usr/src/sys/contrib/softupdates .  Update your links in /sys/ufs/ffs
>

Of course I did learn a valuable lesson in this especially when dealing with
the contrib stuff.  Pay attention.

Thanks,

Jason Portwood - jason@iac.net
Systems Administrator - Strategic/Internet Access Cincinnati
Sales and Tech Support - 513-860-9052



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  6:37: 0 1999
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From: Daniel Tso <dan@tsolab.org>
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> > Thanks for a couple of previous suggestions, but I still have the same
> > problem. I checked the symbolic link for X and it appeared correct, except
> > for the group access:
> >
> > lrwxrwxr-x   1 root     12000       24 May 28 20:58 /usr/X11R6/bin/X ->
> > /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_Mach64*
> >
> 
> A link doesn't have (used) permissions. You must look to the permissions
> of the file where the link points to.
> 
> Think about it. If the permissions of the link matter, everybody can make
> a link to every program and give himself the permissions he/she likes.

I've never understood this... why shouldn't a useful meaning be given to
the permission modes of a symbolic link ?

It could be treated like a directory -- indeed a symlink is kinda like a
directory with only one entry: r could mean contents readable, w
writable
(alterable in situ, w permission in directory required for unlinking),
and
x for access (usable to dereference to target).

Why shouldn't it be possible to prevent the public from using a symlink
or
seeing where it points to ?


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  7:34:39 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:34:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>
To: stable@freebsd.org
Subject: make world failing because of missing unroff
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While upgrading  3.2-RELEASE to 3.3-STABLE (Oct 11), a make world failed
due to the non-existence of "unroff", which i found in the ports
collection. Was this an oversight, or has unroff made it into the  main
distribution since 3.2-RELEASE?

The point at which it halted was while building share/doc/psd/title.

Regards,
Mit


Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe
mitayai@aecinfo.com
AEC Infocenter, Inc
http://www.aecinfo.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  7:45: 6 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:39:26 -0500
To: Daniel Tso <dan@tsolab.org>
From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" <jeff-ml@mountin.net>
Subject: Re: X won't start
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 09:37 AM 10/12/99 -0400, Daniel Tso wrote:
>> A link doesn't have (used) permissions. You must look to the permissions
>> of the file where the link points to.
>> 
>> Think about it. If the permissions of the link matter, everybody can make
>> a link to every program and give himself the permissions he/she likes.
>
>I've never understood this... why shouldn't a useful meaning be given to
>the permission modes of a symbolic link ?
>
>It could be treated like a directory -- indeed a symlink is kinda like a
>directory with only one entry: r could mean contents readable, w
>writable
>(alterable in situ, w permission in directory required for unlinking),
>and
>x for access (usable to dereference to target).
>
>Why shouldn't it be possible to prevent the public from using a symlink
>or
>seeing where it points to ?

What would be the point?
Either they can access what the link points to or they cannot.  With what
you are saying they would not be able to access via the symlink, yet could
do so directly making the permission on the symlink useless.  Could say
that's true now, but...

Rather simple rule:  Don't trust the permissions on a symlink.

Doubt symlink behaviour is going to change.


Jeff Mountin - jeff@mountin.net
Systems/Network Administrator
FreeBSD - the power to serve
'86 Yamaha MaxiumX (not FBSD powered)



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  7:51:15 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:49:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chuck Youse <cyouse@paradox.nexuslabs.com>
To: Jimmy Zongos <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NE2000
In-Reply-To: <000801bf137f$b73150a0$f119fea9@easnet.org>
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On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Jimmy Zongos wrote:

> Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap 
> that will work in freebsd

The D-Link ISA DE220PCT (I think that's the model) is more-or-less
hardware-compatible with the NE2000.  (From what I can see from reading
the ed driver source, very few NE2K clones got it quite right.) They're
about $14.00 - I've seen them at CompUSA, on BUY.COM and at my local Mom &
Pop shop.

Chuck Youse





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subscribe


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  8:58:33 1999
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Subject: Re: X won't start
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> >I've never understood this... why shouldn't a useful meaning be given to
> >the permission modes of a symbolic link ?
> >
> >It could be treated like a directory -- indeed a symlink is kinda like a
> >directory with only one entry: r could mean contents readable, w
> >writable
> >(alterable in situ, w permission in directory required for unlinking),
> >and
> >x for access (usable to dereference to target).
> >
> >Why shouldn't it be possible to prevent the public from using a symlink
> >or
> >seeing where it points to ?
> 
> What would be the point?
> Either they can access what the link points to or they cannot.  With what
> you are saying they would not be able to access via the symlink, yet could
> do so directly making the permission on the symlink useless.  Could say
> that's true now, but...
> 
> Rather simple rule:  Don't trust the permissions on a symlink.

	Not an issue of trust, but of hardcoded semantics.
	Yes, refining the semantics of symlink access modes is not going to
be a big win, but it would still have some possible uses -- again
analogous to modes of directories, which also has always been a bit
squirrelly (sp?) (e.g. what is the point of r but not x for a directory ?)
A similar "feature" is the use of mode 711 for a directory, in which
people who know a file's name can get at it, but the directory cannot be
read. Not a particularly good security mechanism, but it is still a
commonly used feature.
	For a user with a shell, from a security standpoint, yes symlink
modes don't make too much sense. But I can imagine some applications
programs that may wish to play with symlinks in ways that their modes
might be helpful. The Apache webserver is one example of a program offering
a relatively closed environment, which permits the use of symlinks to
reach beyond its "root" directory space.

	On a slightly different vein... several years ago, Pyramid added
the notion of "conditional" symlinks, where a symlink would return a
different target depending on the state of certain user variables (it was
used to implement a System V vs a BSD user environment). I've always thought
that symlinks could be extended along these lines would be incredibly
useful. It could implement a whole little script language, returning
any number of targets depending on what happens within the symlink script.
For example, depending on uid, time of day, whether a remote host is down
(providing backup target), whether a filesystem is full, etc...


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9: 3: 3 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:35:20 +0900
From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
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To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: "Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org>
	 <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au>
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[Hey, what about this "Roasting Newbies" subject? I have read all
messages so far in this thread, and couldn't find any tips or shared
experiences on the matter... :]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>         IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd
> mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an
> automated response.

Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
of this being implemented.

--
Daniel C. Sobral			(8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org

	"I always feel generous when I'm in the inner circle of a
conspiracy to subvert the world order and, with a small group of
allies, just defeated an alien invasion. Maybe I should value myself
a little more?"




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9: 3:12 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
To: Paul Horechuk <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
Subject: RE: X won't start
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On 12-Oct-99 Paul Horechuk wrote:
> xinit: no such file or directory (errno2): unable to connect to X
> server
> xinit: No such process (errno3): Server error
> 
> These errors occur if I login as root and immediately use startx.
> 
> If I go through /stand/sysinstall, answer OK and SAVE at the various
> prompts
> for the XF86 Configure options, then quit out, I can run startx with
> no
> problems.

Perhaps it can't create /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 which is a socket used by the
X server.  Also, make sure /tmp/.X0-lock isn't lying around when X
starts up.

---

John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu> -- http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/
PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.FreeBSD.org/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9: 6:58 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Mike Pontillo wrote:

>         If it is NE2000 compatible, it should work with Linux or FreeBSD
> no problem. In Linux, you want to use the "ne" kernel module if it is an
> ISA card, or the "ne2k-pci" module if it is a PCI card. Slackware comes
> with these modules and all you should have to do is run "modprobe
> <module>".
>         They should work in FreeBSD also -- although I couldn't give you
> very specific details, as I don't know a whole lot about FreeBSD; that's
> why I'm on this mailing list. =) But NE2000 cards are very standardized.
> If you have trouble finding one that works, go to CompUSA and pick up a
> $15-20 D-Link PCI NIC. These are NE2000 compatible and I've found that
> they work rather well. Most any NE2000 compatible card should work though.

After a business trip out of town, I managed to get the owner for a small
company to realize that buying the cheapest possible NICs wasn't the way
to run a consulting business.  He had picked up 5 of the D-Link 10/100 PCI
nics. One wouldn't work at all (nothing we did would even show that the
card existed), one had a packet loss rate of about 30%, and none of them
wanted to work on the customers 10BaseT network.  Between this and the
fact that the D-Link cards change regularly (often in ways that older
FreeBSD drivers don't like), he finally agreed to change that policy.

We'll probably be going Intel EtherExpress Pro's in the future, though I
understand we should avoid the NEC SCSI cards with these.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9:21:59 1999
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Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
In-Reply-To: <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at "Oct
 12, 1999 06:35:20 pm"
To: stable@freebsd.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: dcs@newsguy.com
Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com
From: Mikhail Teterin <mi@aldan.algebra.com>
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Daniel C. Sobral once wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
> > 
> >         IMO, an  attempted post  by any  non-subscribed user  to any
> > freebsd mailing list  other than -questions should get  this kind of
> > an automated response.
> 
> Many  of the  non-subscribed posters  are subscribed  developers using
> alternate accounts. They  would not be happy in  the hypothetical case
> of this being implemented.

IMO, the  list of the subscribers  should be totally different  from the
list of posters.  Some will want to post from  different addresses, some
may only be subscribed read-only -- depending on a list's policy, etc.

	-mi


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9:23:48 1999
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To: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
	"Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
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On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 06:35:20PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> [Hey, what about this "Roasting Newbies" subject? I have read all
> messages so far in this thread, and couldn't find any tips or shared
> experiences on the matter... :]

[Try a light garlic and basil marinade. Roast for 5 minutes per pound,
basting every half hour]

> Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
> alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
> of this being implemented.

IIRC, Majordomo is capable of having 'post-ok' addresses, where you can
do a sort of half-subscription where you can post from an address, but
not get list mail there.

Jamie

> --
> Daniel C. Sobral			(8-DCS)
> dcs@newsguy.com
> dcs@freebsd.org


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12  9:42:59 1999
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From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
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	"Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au> <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com> <v04205502b426c455aa8b@[195.238.21.204]> <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com> <19991012092301.A87691@mushhaven.net>
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Jamie Norwood wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 06:35:20PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> > [Hey, what about this "Roasting Newbies" subject? I have read all
> > messages so far in this thread, and couldn't find any tips or shared
> > experiences on the matter... :]
> 
> [Try a light garlic and basil marinade. Roast for 5 minutes per pound,
> basting every half hour]

[Is that chopped or crushed garlic? And what kind of drink goes with
it?]

> > Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
> > alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
> > of this being implemented.
> 
> IIRC, Majordomo is capable of having 'post-ok' addresses, where you can
> do a sort of half-subscription where you can post from an address, but
> not get list mail there.

It would seem that it's more of a question of suddenly finding
oneself at another account on a business trip and similar stuff.
This has been discussed ad nauseum wrt spammers. The bottom line is
that the cost outweight the benefits, in *that* case.

But this _is_ a different case. We do get a LOT more clueless
questions&newbie flaming than spammers. And the consequences are far
more serious: committers get off lists like -hackers, committers get
pissed off, and newbies get a terrible first impression. Perhaps
this might tip the scale in favour of a "posting addresses"
solution, but, frankly, I doubt it.

If anyone wants to pursue the matter, talk to jmb in person at
FreeBSDcon. Buy him some beer, even. Maybe if enough people buy him
a beer, he might get drunk enough to agree to it (or, otherwise, do
some despicable act that might be properly recorded for latter use
as blackmail :).

--
Daniel C. Sobral			(8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org

	"I always feel generous when I'm in the inner circle of a
conspiracy to subvert the world order and, with a small group of
allies, just defeated an alien invasion. Maybe I should value myself
a little more?"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10: 4:46 1999
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910121704.NAA45110@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: 3.5-stable ?
To: stable@freebsd.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:04:34 -0400 (EDT)
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Hello,

Traditionally, the best time to get on a FreeBSD branch has been when
it hits *.5.  Is this still true with 3.x?

Current gossip, rumor, and innuendo hints that 4.0-release will be
coming out early next year.  With a release every 3 months, that means
that 3.5-stable will be coming out about next April, about the same time.

With 2.2.x, we has several months of "reliable stable" operation.  I'm
just concerned because I'm waiting to upgrade some 2.2x systems until
3.5.  I'd rather not go through the upgrade just to face the same
software backporting issues I'm currently facing with 2.x systems
after only a couple months.

Thanks,
==ml


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10: 5:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:04:02 +0200
From: Martin Welk <mw@sol.freibergnet.de>
To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
Cc: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
Message-ID: <19991012190402.A39400@sol.freibergnet.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910112145400.508-100000@revenge.pylos.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910120900130.15303-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
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On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 09:06:52AM -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote:

> After a business trip out of town, I managed to get the owner for a small
> company to realize that buying the cheapest possible NICs wasn't the way
> to run a consulting business.  He had picked up 5 of the D-Link 10/100 PCI
> nics. One wouldn't work at all (nothing we did would even show that the
> card existed), one had a packet loss rate of about 30%, and none of them
> wanted to work on the customers 10BaseT network.  Between this and the
> fact that the D-Link cards change regularly (often in ways that older
> FreeBSD drivers don't like), he finally agreed to change that policy.
> 
> We'll probably be going Intel EtherExpress Pro's in the future, though I
> understand we should avoid the NEC SCSI cards with these.

If you need cheap but working cards, look for the D-Link 530TX. They
don't look to bad and work under FreeBSD (at least, > 3.x) with the
vr (Via Rhine chipset) driver. A six-pack of them makes a price less
than 25 DEM here, fifty cost even less. The Interl EtherExpress 10/100
are almost four times as expensive as the D-Link, but I would prefer
them of course. But we found the Via Rhine based cards to be a good
compromise in price and what you get from them. On a P-II/350 board
FreeBSD get's 11 MB/sec. over them using FTP with some CPU load, but
not more than 15 %.

In any case, I prefer those Via Rhine cards before any Realtek based
cards due to driver difficulties we experienced already before.

Regards,

Martin
-- 
FreibergNet Systemhaus GbR                   Martin Welk * Sales, Support
Systemhaus für Daten- und Netzwerktechnik           phone +49 3731 781387
Unternehmensgruppe Liebscher & Partner                fax +49 3731 781377
D-09599 Freiberg * Am St. Niclas Schacht 13    http://www.freibergnet.de/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10:30:51 1999
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To: "Sean O'Connell" <sean@stat.Duke.EDU>,
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The path is correct and there doesn't appear to be any dirrerences in the
environment before and after running /stand/sysinstall and the XF86 config.
I'm not sure about the /tmp. I'll have to check that.
Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean O'Connell <sean@stat.Duke.EDU>
To: Paul Horechuk <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
Date: October 12, 1999 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: X won't start


>On 1999 Oct 11, Paul Horechuk (aka phorechuk@docucom.ca) wrote:
>> Thanks for a couple of previous suggestions, but I still have the same
>> problem. I checked the symbolic link for X and it appeared correct,
except
>> for the group access:
>>
>> fatal server error:
>> failed to establish all listening sockets
>> giving up.
>>
>>
>> xinit: no such file or directory (errno2): unable to connect to X server
>> xinit: No such process (errno3): Server error
>>
>> These errors occur if I login as root and immediately use startx.
>>
>> If I go through /stand/sysinstall, answer OK and SAVE at the various
prompts
>> for the XF86 Configure options, then quit out, I can run startx with no
>> problems.
>
>Paul-
>
>Two things that come to mind are:
>
>Make sure that /tmp/.X0-lock does not exist before running startx?
>Make sure that /usr/X11R6/bin is in your path.
>
>Good luck
>S
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sean O'Connell                                Email: sean@stat.Duke.EDU
>Institute of Statistics and Decision Sciences Phone: (919) 684-5419
>Duke University                               Fax:   (919) 684-8594
>



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10:54:55 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:54:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.runet.edu>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
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Hi,

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:

> Traditionally, the best time to get on a FreeBSD branch has been when
> it hits *.5.  Is this still true with 3.x?

Huh?  There was no 2.5-RELEASE.  I am pretty sure there were no 1.5
releases either.  There have been 2.*.5 releases, but the numbering scheme
has been slightly altered w/ the advent of the 3.* branch.  

> With 2.2.x, we has several months of "reliable stable" operation.  
> I'm just concerned because I'm waiting to upgrade some 2.2x systems
> until 3.5.

As far as I know, there aren't any major stability issues w/ 3.2 or 3.3.
I don't however use NFS and many other things so maybe I've missed those.
I think you are probably safe to upgrade, maybe a machine at a time, to
3.3.

> I'd rather not go through the upgrade just to face the same software
> backporting issues I'm currently facing with 2.x systems after only a
> couple months.

This is a separate issue and I'm not sure what the problems are w/ the
software.  2.2 is old and a.out and a.out support will disappear.  My
guess is that most of the ports will still compile on 2.2* but there are
certainly those which will not.  

We could help you decide more if we knew exactly what issues you were
having w/ software.

Brett
*****************************************************
Dr. Brett Taylor         brett@peloton.runet.edu    *
Dept of Chem and Physics			    *
Curie 39A	(540) 831-6147                      *
Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics		    *
Walker 234	(540) 831-5410			    *
*****************************************************



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10:56: 1 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:47:04 +0900
From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
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To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
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Michael Lucas wrote:
> 
> With 2.2.x, we has several months of "reliable stable" operation.  I'm
> just concerned because I'm waiting to upgrade some 2.2x systems until
> 3.5.  I'd rather not go through the upgrade just to face the same
> software backporting issues I'm currently facing with 2.x systems
> after only a couple months.

2.2.x went so long because 3.x took so long. 3.0 was once called
2.3, even. The not-as-impressively-stable-as-2.2.[5678] status of
3.x is to a large extent a result of it's delay. It became too much
in a single step, which, in turn, end up resulting in a much larger
amount of time needed to stabilize the code.

Frankly, a year and a half is way too much wait for a system to
become stable. Hopefully, the shorter development cycle of 4.0 will
result in a 4.x line getting stabilized much faster.

All of the above is IMHO, though.

All that said, 3.x-stable is quite reliable. Most problem reports I
have seen turned out to be operator errors, with a few known trouble
spots (nfs, out of mbufs panic). The releases have been cursed with
annoying problems getting past unnoticed, but they have been related
to installation, not reliability, and a simple wait of a couple of
weeks and use of Errata mitigates it.

--
Daniel C. Sobral			(8-DCS)
dcs@newsguy.com
dcs@freebsd.org

	"I always feel generous when I'm in the inner circle of a
conspiracy to subvert the world order and, with a small group of
allies, just defeated an alien invasion. Maybe I should value myself
a little more?"




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 10:59:12 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:58:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Forrest W. Christian" <forrestc@iMach.com>
To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
Cc: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
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> After a business trip out of town, I managed to get the owner for a small
> company to realize that buying the cheapest possible NICs wasn't the way
> to run a consulting business.  He had picked up 5 of the D-Link 10/100 PCI
> nics. One wouldn't work at all (nothing we did would even show that the
> card existed), one had a packet loss rate of about 30%, and none of them
> wanted to work on the customers 10BaseT network.  Between this and the
> fact that the D-Link cards change regularly (often in ways that older
> FreeBSD drivers don't like), he finally agreed to change that policy.

This isn't meant as a flame - sometimes I get a little carried away when I
have a strong feeling about something.

I utilize $9.00 Ethernet cards almost 100% of the time here.  Currently
I'm using the CNET PowerNIC's for the ISA and another brand for the PCI. 
Almost never have problems. The real trick is that once you find a
consistent brand/model to stay with it.  I used to use the cheap ones in
house and 3coms for all of my customer work.  With the idea that the
3com's were better.  However, I have now switched to using the cheaper
NIC's almost exclusively. The reason? I have had an incredible amount of
problems with 3com nics.  NICS that crash servers, Nics that don't work,
etc.  FAR more than with the sub-$20 nics.   Now mind you, I've had a
couple of manufacturers of sub-$20 nics that I will never buy from again,
but with careful purchasing when dealing with a new vendor (buy 2-3 and
use them, and then 10 and then... whatever quantity you really need) you
can usually determine the bad manufacturers within the first $100 of
expenditure.  I haven't had to go through this for quite a while, though
as CNet seems to be quite stable.

That said, the Intel EtherExpress family seem to work EXTREMELY well and
extremely good.  I put them in all my customer's "high-end" freebsd boxes
and in my customer's high-end servers.


- Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) KD7EHZ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604      http://www.imach.com
Solutions for your high-tech problems.                  (406)-442-6648
----------------------------------------------------------------------



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11: 7:36 1999
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From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To: "Forrest W. Christian" <forrestc@iMach.com>
Cc: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote:

> That said, the Intel EtherExpress family seem to work EXTREMELY well and
> extremely good.  I put them in all my customer's "high-end" freebsd boxes
> and in my customer's high-end servers.

Should have been more explicit, this was for a firewall/VPN box.
Stability of the Win9X boxes is not as much an issue, and the vendors tend
to test better for that environment anyway.

Then again, my home network is switched 100BaseT, with all EtherExpressPro
cards.  I thought it was worth the $46 each for the cards.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:17:19 1999
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	Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:16:16 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:16:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Forrest W. Christian" <forrestc@iMach.com>
To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
Cc: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: NICs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121102550.17801-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote:
> > That said, the Intel EtherExpress family seem to work EXTREMELY well and
> > extremely good.  I put them in all my customer's "high-end" freebsd boxes
> > and in my customer's high-end servers.
> 
> Should have been more explicit, this was for a firewall/VPN box.
> Stability of the Win9X boxes is not as much an issue, and the vendors tend
> to test better for that environment anyway.

Actually, I build firewall boxes here based on FreeBSD-STABLE - And thats
where the cheap cards go. :)

- Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) KD7EHZ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604      http://www.imach.com
Solutions for your high-tech problems.                  (406)-442-6648
----------------------------------------------------------------------



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:26:42 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910121825.OAA45519@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121348120.8786-100000@peloton.runet.edu> from Brett Taylor at "Oct 12, 1999  1:54:29 pm"
To: brett@peloton.runet.edu (Brett Taylor)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:25:33 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> Huh?  There was no 2.5-RELEASE.  I am pretty sure there were no 1.5
> releases either.  There have been 2.*.5 releases, but the numbering scheme
> has been slightly altered w/ the advent of the 3.* branch.  

Okay, to address this issue that I received several mails on:

I should have said 2.2.5, or 2.*.5.  (Note to self: don't write so you
can be understood, write so you cannot be misunderstood.)

> As far as I know, there aren't any major stability issues w/ 3.2 or 3.3.
> I don't however use NFS and many other things so maybe I've missed those.
> I think you are probably safe to upgrade, maybe a machine at a time, to
> 3.3.

Well, in 2.2.5-release we had a nice little note in the release
announcement:

It is my great pleasure, as always, to announce the release of FreeBSD
2.2.5, our next release on the 2.2-stable branch. Those folks who are
still running 2.1.x and wish to upgrade to 2.2 technology are now
encouraged to do so as 2.2.5 has reached an equivalent level of
stability in all of our tests.

IIRC, we had a similar note at some point around 2.1.5.  (I dug up the
text of one, that's it for my documentation.)

jkh had also made some comments to that effect around 3.1, with all
the upgrade complaints.

> We could help you decide more if we knew exactly what issues you were
> having w/ software.

Ah, but if you told me exactly what to do, I wouldn't learn anything,
would I?  ;)

Seriously, most of it compiles.  But 'cd /usr/port/whatever && make
all install' isn't as easy and carefree as I had come to expect.
There's a definite sensation of Russian roulette every time.  ;)

I guess what I'm asking for is an official notice that 3.3 is
considered not just stable, but reliable, rather like the above.  I
need something to cover my butt with my clients when I upgrade them.

What version number this happens at is irrelevant, I suppose.  So long
as it's advertised, or at least labeled.

==ml


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:34: 3 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:32:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.runet.edu>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
In-Reply-To: <199910121825.OAA45519@blackhelicopters.org>
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Hi

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:

> Brett said:
> > We could help you decide more if we knew exactly what issues you were
> > having w/ software.
> 
> Ah, but if you told me exactly what to do, I wouldn't learn anything,
> would I?  ;)

> Seriously, most of it compiles.  But 'cd /usr/port/whatever && make
> all install' isn't as easy and carefree as I had come to expect.
> There's a definite sensation of Russian roulette every time.  ;)

At this point, the longer you wait to switch to 3.*, the more and more
you'll find yourself losing that game of Russian roulette.  Official
support for the 2.2 ports tree is gone - we TRY to make things compile on
2.2.* but I don't even have a machine anymore at 2.2.* and there are ports
that are known not to work on 2.2 (gtk and glib are notorious,
particularly due to the libtool port).

> I guess what I'm asking for is an official notice that 3.3 is
> considered not just stable, but reliable, rather like the above.  I
> need something to cover my butt with my clients when I upgrade them.

Well, I don't know that there's an "official" notice - you should ask
Jordan.  Option 2 is to upgrade a single machine and see how it goes - if
it stays stable under some tests/time period, you can slowly start to
upgrade all of them.  

Brett
*****************************************************
Dr. Brett Taylor         brett@peloton.runet.edu    *
Dept of Chem and Physics			    *
Curie 39A	(540) 831-6147                      *
Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics		    *
Walker 234	(540) 831-5410			    *
*****************************************************



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:36:53 1999
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910121836.OAA45577@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121348120.8786-100000@peloton.runet.edu> from Brett Taylor at "Oct 12, 1999  1:54:29 pm"
To: brett@peloton.runet.edu (Brett Taylor)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:36:36 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> Huh?  There was no 2.5-RELEASE.  I am pretty sure there were no 1.5
> releases either.  There have been 2.*.5 releases, but the numbering scheme
> has been slightly altered w/ the advent of the 3.* branch.  

Sorry, I should have specified 2.*.5.  (Note to self; do not write so
you can be understood, write so you cannot be misunderstood.)

> As far as I know, there aren't any major stability issues w/ 3.2 or 3.3.
> I don't however use NFS and many other things so maybe I've missed those.
> I think you are probably safe to upgrade, maybe a machine at a time, to
> 3.3.

Well, in 2.2.5 we had a nice little notice in the release announcement:


It is my great pleasure, as always, to announce the release of FreeBSD
2.2.5, our next release on the 2.2-stable branch. Those folks who are
still running 2.1.x and wish to upgrade to 2.2 technology are now
encouraged to do so as 2.2.5 has reached an equivalent level of
stability in all of our tests. A number of annoying problems with
2.2.2 have also been fixed (see the release notes for more information
on this).

IIRC, we had a similar note around 2.1.5

> We could help you decide more if we knew exactly what issues you were
> having w/ software.

Ah, but then I wouldn't learn anything, would I?

Seriously, I solve most of them, and scream when I don't.  Don't
worry, I'm far from a dissatisfied customer.

I suppose what I'm asking is, when will 3.x be considered at that
minimal stable level 2.2.5 was at?  Will we be seeing an "official"
notice from FreeBSD to that effect at any point?

An announcement like the one above is absolutely invaluable to indie
contractors when explaining why upgrades are necessary.

==ml


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:40:43 1999
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From: "Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe" <mitayai@aecinfo.com>
To: "Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe" <mitayai@aecinfo.com>,
	<stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: make world failing because of missing unroff
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:40:04 -0400
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hmm... then again, maybe it was the silly person who changed the defaul doc
format to HTML in /etc/make.conf. Fixing this, doing a (cd /usr/src ; make
update ; make world) seems to have worked. But still... why would something
in the system be called an external program only found in ports?

-Mit

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Will Mitayai Keeso
> Rowe
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 10:34
> To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: make world failing because of missing unroff
>
>
> While upgrading  3.2-RELEASE to 3.3-STABLE (Oct 11), a make world failed
> due to the non-existence of "unroff", which i found in the ports
> collection. Was this an oversight, or has unroff made it into the  main
> distribution since 3.2-RELEASE?
>
> The point at which it halted was while building share/doc/psd/title.
>
> Regards,
> Mit
>
>
> Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe
> mitayai@aecinfo.com
> AEC Infocenter, Inc
> http://www.aecinfo.com
>
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 11:40:52 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Christopher Michaels <ChrisMic@clientlogic.com>
To: "'Jeffrey J. Libman'" <jeffrl@wantabe.com>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: make buildworld fails
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:43:21 -0400
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Have you tried compiling w/o the -j N option to make?  It seems to get ahead
of itself sometimes, or maybe -B -j N

-Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeffrey J. Libman [SMTP:jeffrl@wantabe.com]
> Sent:	Monday, October 11, 1999 12:38 AM
> To:	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject:	make buildworld fails
> 
> here i go again. just did a cvsup stable-supfile, and am attempting to
> make buildworld. i get:
> 
> ===> share/man/man4/man4.i386
> make: don't know how to make tk.4. Stop
> *** Error code 2
> 1 error
> 
> now what?
> 
> cheers,
> jeff
> 
>                                 |
>                                 |\
> +------------------------------+
> Jeffrey J. Libman, ops. mgr.    | \           |  Wantabe Internet Services
> |
> Wantabe, Inc.                   |__\
> +------------------------------+
> jeffrl@wantabe.com        <-----|------>      | access web cgi ftp news
> mail |
> (281) 493-0718       __,.-=\'`^`'~=-../__,.-=
> +------------------------------+
> 
> 
> 
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 12:29:35 1999
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References: <199910121621.MAA40223@misha.cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:17:26 +0200
To: mi@aldan.algebra.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 12:21 PM -0400 1999/10/12, Mikhail Teterin wrote:

> IMO, the  list of the subscribers  should be totally different  from the
> list of posters.  Some will want to post from  different addresses, some
> may only be subscribed read-only -- depending on a list's policy, etc.

	That's easily handled with Majordomo, and can even be automated 
as a separate "list" for which subscriptions and unsubscriptions can 
be done, etc....

	Frankly, I don't see a problem here.  Am I missing something?

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
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   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 12:41:18 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:41:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Pontillo <mike_p@revenge.pylos.net>
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: NICs
In-Reply-To: <19991012190402.A39400@sol.freibergnet.de>
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> 
> If you need cheap but working cards, look for the D-Link 530TX. They
> don't look to bad and work under FreeBSD (at least, > 3.x) with the
> vr (Via Rhine chipset) driver. A six-pack of them makes a price less
> than 25 DEM here, fifty cost even less. The Interl EtherExpress 10/100
> are almost four times as expensive as the D-Link, but I would prefer
> them of course. But we found the Via Rhine based cards to be a good
> compromise in price and what you get from them. On a P-II/350 board
> FreeBSD get's 11 MB/sec. over them using FTP with some CPU load, but
> not more than 15 %.
> 
> In any case, I prefer those Via Rhine cards before any Realtek based
> cards due to driver difficulties we experienced already before.
> 

	I have also experienced difficulties with realtek chipset 10/100
cards. It was almost looking to me like they were overheating, but I think
it might have actually been problems with the driver. *shrug* In any case,
Pacific Bell gave me a nice 10/100 card that works quite well when I got
DSL, so I am not worrying about that any more. =)

	Anyway, I'd just like to say that it has been my experience that
any 10bT (not 100bT) card that is ne2000 compatible can be made to work.
The drivers don't seem to be a problem with the 10bT cards. 100bT, though,
I am more careful about now.

Mike



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 13:17:42 1999
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	(envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
To: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: make world failing because of missing unroff
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLMGLGLDODFIEAOKGOEEPCHAA.mitayai@aecinfo.com>
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote:

> hmm... then again, maybe it was the silly person who changed the defaul doc
> format to HTML in /etc/make.conf. Fixing this, doing a (cd /usr/src ; make
> update ; make world) seems to have worked. But still... why would something
> in the system be called an external program only found in ports?

Perhaps because it's not an officially-supported option. Or perhaps it was
supposed to be, but has rotted.

If you're talking about:

# Default format for system documentation, depends on your printer.
# Set this to "ascii" for simple printers or screen
#
#PRINTERDEVICE= ps

then AFAIK the only two supported options are those referenced: ascii and
ps. Patches to make others work may be welcome - talk to the
doc@freebsd.org guys.

Documentation building has ample precedent for external dependencies - the
entire doc/ tree needs several ports installed to build. I'm sure there
are other examples in the tree.

Kris

----
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 14: 8:22 1999
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To: "Michael Lucas" <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: 3.5-stable ?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:06:15 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Michael Lucas
>
>
> > As far as I know, there aren't any major stability issues w/ 3.2 or 3.3.
> > I don't however use NFS and many other things so maybe I've
> missed those.
> > I think you are probably safe to upgrade, maybe a machine at a time, to
> > 3.3.
>
> Well, in 2.2.5-release we had a nice little note in the release
> announcement:
>
<SNIP>

3.0 had many problems but they've been ironed out for the most part
there are some issues with nfs, though I have yet to see them.

I'd say 3.3 is stable, setup a test machine, simulate the load
enviornment that your current 2.2.x machines encounter. See if
it passes your expectations.

If it doesn't, post to this mailing list, report what problems you
discovered. There are many talented people on this list that
can advise you of what you did wrong, or fix the problem itself.

I don't think that you should rely on some sort of paper to tell
you if something is stable or not. The lack of support for 2.2.x now
should be indicitive that most of the developers think that 3.x is
stable enough to stop supporting the older product.

Many companies have claimed their products to be stable/secure, and
I'm sure we can all name a few that a reputation for otherwise.
I think a better way to determine stability is to join a mailing list
such as this one, see what other users around the world have to
say, then you get real world data, from admins, users, from all
over the world.

Sameer



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 14: 8:23 1999
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From: "Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>
To: "Jimmy Zongos" <fatall@sheltonbbs.com>,
	<freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: NE2000
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:12:27 -0700
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pricwatch would probably be a good starting location, though if I where
you, I'd avoid purchasing NE2000 cards, as the quality among them tends to
vary drasticly. NE2000s are great cards if you have a few spare lying
around, not really card that is worth purchasing now.

You will probably have less problems down the line if you spend about
$40 and purchase a more reputable network card, such as a 3com 905
or an Intel EtherExpress (both of which are 10/100 cards).

Sameer


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
[mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jimmy Zongos
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 5:30 PM
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: NE2000


Anyone know were to buy a NE2000 compatible card for pretty cheap that will
work in freebsd



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 15: 9:31 1999
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To: Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>
Subject: Re: [Patches avail?] Re: MMAP() in STABLE/CURRENT ... 
Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, dg@root.com,
	dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie (David Malone),
	ady@warpnet.ro (Adrian Penisoara), freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:28:18 PDT."
		<199910081828.LAA03945@apollo.backplane.com> 
References: <199910081828.LAA03945@apollo.backplane.com>  <199910081711.KAA49036@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> 
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:09:18 -0600
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In message <199910081828.LAA03945@apollo.backplane.com> Matthew Dillon writes:
:     Forget the drilling!  Blood conducts electricity... simply *installing*
:     a motherboard in those fraggin sharp-edged sheet metal chassis is enough!

I've had one or two cheapo mo-bos that haven't worked at 100MHz after
spattering human blood on it from said sharp-edged sheet metal
corners...

Warner


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 15:36:17 1999
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910122235.SAA46342@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
In-Reply-To: <000301bf14f5$9efbac20$2200000a@after.pw2.within.org> from "Sameer R. Manek" at "Oct 12, 1999  2: 6:15 pm"
To: manek@quadrunner.com (Sameer R. Manek)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:35:58 -0400 (EDT)
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> > Well, in 2.2.5-release we had a nice little note in the release
> > announcement:
> >
> <SNIP>
> 
> 3.0 had many problems but they've been ironed out for the most part
> there are some issues with nfs, though I have yet to see them.

You know that, and I know that.

Clients like the little piece of paper.  Especially when I bill
hourly, and they've been burned by a variety of MCSEs.  ;)

==ml



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 15:55:45 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: "Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:

> You know that, and I know that.
> 
> Clients like the little piece of paper.  Especially when I bill
> hourly, and they've been burned by a variety of MCSEs.  ;)

You're not going to get a piece of paper guaranteeing the stability of the
system - this is free software, there will be no fairings, etc. At best,
you could get a verbal statement from jordan about how he feels about
-stable maturity, and the opinion of the userbase (i.e. this list), but
nothing you can really use as a shield against your clients if things
don't work, except "it works fine for most other people"

Kris

----
XOR for AES -- join the campaign!



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 16:29: 4 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:18:56 +0200
To: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>,
	Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
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At 3:55 PM -0700 1999/10/12, Kris Kennaway wrote:

>                                                                  At best,
> you could get a verbal statement from jordan about how he feels about
> -stable maturity, and the opinion of the userbase (i.e. this list),

	Speaking only for myself, I place a hell of a lot more weight in 
his personal opinion of the stability of a product than I do in the 
official "guarantees" offered by 99.999% of the companies and people 
out there.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 16:40:29 1999
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From: "Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>
Cc: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: 3.5-stable ?
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kris Kennaway [mailto:kris@hub.freebsd.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 3:56 PM
> To: Michael Lucas
> Cc: Sameer R. Manek; stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:
>
> > You know that, and I know that.
> >
> > Clients like the little piece of paper.  Especially when I bill
> > hourly, and they've been burned by a variety of MCSEs.  ;)
>
> You're not going to get a piece of paper guaranteeing the stability of the
> system - this is free software, there will be no fairings, etc. At best,
> you could get a verbal statement from jordan about how he feels about
> -stable maturity, and the opinion of the userbase (i.e. this list), but
> nothing you can really use as a shield against your clients if things
> don't work, except "it works fine for most other people"
>

Not even commercial companies certify their product will work for you.
Read the fine print for NT Server, (let's avoid the flamewars please, we all
know which is the better os)

Show your clients this url http://www.freebsd.org/gallery/gallery.html
it it works well for that very long list of companies
http://www.cdrom.com/stats/wcarchive.html
would also be a good demonstration url, though it seems that
ftp.cdrom.com get's rebooted a lot.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 16:43: 4 1999
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To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:04:34 EDT."
             <199910121704.NAA45110@blackhelicopters.org> 
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:42:45 -0700
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
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> Traditionally, the best time to get on a FreeBSD branch has been when
> it hits *.5.  Is this still true with 3.x?

I guess you'll find out when we hit 3.5, won't you? :) This isn't
actually as flip an answer as it sounds, either.  There's simply no
way of predicting the future with any accuracy where FreeBSD is
concerned, even on the -stable branch, and that's just what you get
for being part of what's really "a movement" as much as it is an
OS. :)

> Current gossip, rumor, and innuendo hints that 4.0-release will be
> coming out early next year.  With a release every 3 months, that means
> that 3.5-stable will be coming out about next April, about the same time.

Current gossip and rumor may be outdated Real Soon Now.  Watch this
space for updated rumors over the next few months.

- Jordan


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 16:44: 3 1999
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From: mikep@inficad.com
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Problems with SMP - Tyan Motherboard
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:47:58 -0700
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I cannot get smp to work on my computer.  Any help anyone could
provide would be great.  Please respond in private, as I am not on the
list. Below are my computers specs, and the error code I am getting.

Specs:
TYAN S1692DL TIGER  2 ATX
Dual PII 300
64 MB ram
5.1 GB HD (Seagate)
FreeBSD 3.2

Error:
APIC_IO: Testing 8254 interrupt delivery
APIC_IO: Broken MP table detected: 8254 is not connected to IO APIC
int pin 2
APIC_IO: routing 8254 via 8259 on pin 0
panic:  Nobody wants to mount my root for me
mp_lock = 00000001; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000

Other:
VooDoo Rush (PCI)
3c900 PCI
3c509B ISA
SoundBlaster 128 PCI
Motorola 56K PCI


Michael Phillips
Customer Service Manager
Inficad Communications
http://www.inficad.com
888.265.4423
"It's not broken, it just lacks duct tape."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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iQA/AwUBOAPIrYVBNJOiGAmMEQIpGACghFiHmKZjuIFUOO3CJXkCYA7S8iQAoL8A
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 16:44:16 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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To: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>
Cc: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:47:04 +0900."
             <38037418.BC112172@newsguy.com> 
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:44:11 -0700
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
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> Frankly, a year and a half is way too much wait for a system to
> become stable. Hopefully, the shorter development cycle of 4.0 will
> result in a 4.x line getting stabilized much faster.

I agree.  I also suspect that 4.0 will branch in a much more timely
fashion than 3.0 did.  We learned some hard lessons with 3.0's
schedule.

- Jordan

> 
> All of the above is IMHO, though.
> 
> All that said, 3.x-stable is quite reliable. Most problem reports I
> have seen turned out to be operator errors, with a few known trouble
> spots (nfs, out of mbufs panic). The releases have been cursed with
> annoying problems getting past unnoticed, but they have been related
> to installation, not reliability, and a simple wait of a couple of
> weeks and use of Errata mitigates it.
> 
> --
> Daniel C. Sobral			(8-DCS)
> dcs@newsguy.com
> dcs@freebsd.org
> 
> 	"I always feel generous when I'm in the inner circle of a
> conspiracy to subvert the world order and, with a small group of
> allies, just defeated an alien invasion. Maybe I should value myself
> a little more?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 17: 7:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:07:01 -0400
To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
In-Reply-To: <5576.939771765@localhost>
References: <Your message of "Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:04:34 EDT."             <199910121704.NAA45110@blackhelicopters.org>
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At 07:42 PM 10/12/99 , Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>At 06:35 PM 10/12/99 , Michael Lucas wrote:
>> Traditionally, the best time to get on a FreeBSD branch has been when
>> it hits *.5.  Is this still true with 3.x?
>
>I guess you'll find out when we hit 3.5, won't you? :) This isn't
>actually as flip an answer as it sounds, either.  There's simply no
>way of predicting the future with any accuracy where FreeBSD is
>concerned, even on the -stable branch, and that's just what you get
>for being part of what's really "a movement" as much as it is an
>OS. :)

My experience with STABLE for 3.2 and beyond in a production environment
has been excellent.  I have yet (knock on wood) to experience any nasty
panics due to any bugs.  On the about 10 production 3.x machines I run, all
have performed as well for me as my other 15 or so 2.x servers.  In that
mix is one SMP system with 512MB of RAM that does 7 hits per second with a
high mix of dynamically generated pages as well as pushing 30,000 messages
a day in 2 bursts.  I have had a one of the boxes syn flooded as well as
being blasted with 10Mb of UDP floods and it has withstood it just fine--
as well as one of my border routers that carried the floods to the poor
victim, which is also a pre 3.3 box running gated with 2 full views of the net.

So to make a long story short, if you have new boxes to deploy, and you are
worried about 3.3, based on my experience, dont worry.  That being said,
get good hardware, and well supported devices... For SCSI, Adaptec. For
ethernet, Intel EtherExpress Pro 100/Bs.  Good MB, good CPU, good RAM...
you will be fine.

>Current gossip and rumor may be outdated Real Soon Now.  Watch this
>space for updated rumors over the next few months.
>
>- Jordan

Come on, you cant just throw that out and not elaborate ? )  How about some
hints! ;-)

	---Mike
**********************************************************************
Mike Tancsa, Network Admin        *  mike@sentex.net
Sentex Communications Corp,       *  http://www.sentex.net/mike
Cambridge, Ontario                *  01.519.651.3400
Canada                            *


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 20:59:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:58:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alok K. Dhir" <adhir@forumone.com>
To: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
Cc: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>,
	"Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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Would the fact that Yahoo! runs FreeBSD (it does) satisfy your client...?

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Michael Lucas wrote:
> 
> > You know that, and I know that.
> > 
> > Clients like the little piece of paper.  Especially when I bill
> > hourly, and they've been burned by a variety of MCSEs.  ;)
> 
> You're not going to get a piece of paper guaranteeing the stability of the
> system - this is free software, there will be no fairings, etc. At best,
> you could get a verbal statement from jordan about how he feels about
> -stable maturity, and the opinion of the userbase (i.e. this list), but
> nothing you can really use as a shield against your clients if things
> don't work, except "it works fine for most other people"
> 
> Kris
> 
> ----
> XOR for AES -- join the campaign!
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Tue Oct 12 21:47: 0 1999
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:45:59 -0700
From: Ben Speirs <igiveup@ix.netcom.com>
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To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au> <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com> <v04205502b426c455aa8b@[195.238.21.204]> <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com> <19991012092301.A87691@mushhaven.net> <3803648F.B4EC0DCE@newsguy.com>
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"Daniel C. Sobral" wrote:
> 
> Jamie Norwood wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 06:35:20PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> > > [Hey, what about this "Roasting Newbies" subject? I have read all
> > > messages so far in this thread, and couldn't find any tips or shared
> > > experiences on the matter... :]
> >
> > [Try a light garlic and basil marinade. Roast for 5 minutes per pound,
> > basting every half hour]
> 
> [Is that chopped or crushed garlic? And what kind of drink goes with
> it?]

[Mmm ... young, tender newbies!  Watch out for the tough hackers
though.  Roasted hacker leaves a pretty bitter taste in your mouth. ]

> 
> > > Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
> > > alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
> > > of this being implemented.
> >
> > IIRC, Majordomo is capable of having 'post-ok' addresses, where you can
> > do a sort of half-subscription where you can post from an address, but
> > not get list mail there.
> 
> It would seem that it's more of a question of suddenly finding
> oneself at another account on a business trip and similar stuff.
> This has been discussed ad nauseum wrt spammers. The bottom line is
> that the cost outweight the benefits, in *that* case.
> 
> But this _is_ a different case. We do get a LOT more clueless
> questions&newbie flaming than spammers. And the consequences are far
> more serious: committers get off lists like -hackers, committers get
> pissed off, and newbies get a terrible first impression. Perhaps
> this might tip the scale in favour of a "posting addresses"
> solution, but, frankly, I doubt it.
> 
> If anyone wants to pursue the matter, talk to jmb in person at
> FreeBSDcon. Buy him some beer, even. Maybe if enough people buy him
> a beer, he might get drunk enough to agree to it (or, otherwise, do
> some despicable act that might be properly recorded for latter use
> as blackmail :).

I will be tracking him down to buy him** a beer so he will keep it the
way it is.  Those of us who do our homework, searching the archives,
deja.com, man pages, etc. should not have to jump through a bunch of
hoops to use the lists.

I like the plan for catching the newbies that go astray and teaching
them.  For the rare bits of spam and the incredibly clueless newbie
posts, there is always the delete key.

[**along with other FreeBSD developers who am in debt to]
--
-Ben Speirs (still a newbie after all these years)


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  2: 8:36 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:08:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: Claude Buisson <ubc@paris.framatome.fr>
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To: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org
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Subject: make doc error
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Hi,

Doing make release:

===> en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os
/usr/local/bin/jade -ioutput.html -V nochunks  -c
/usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/../../../share/sgml/catalog -c
/usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/dsssl/modular/catalog -c
/usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/catalog -c
/usr/local/share/sgml/jade/catalog  -d
/usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/../../../share/sgml/freebsd.dsl
-t sgml /usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/article.sgml >
article.html
/usr/local/bin/jade:/usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/article.sgml:407:1:E:
character data is not allowed here
*** Error code 1

Stop.

This is the cvsup log:

 Edit doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/article.sgml
  Add delta 1.8 99.10.11.20.03.24 jhb   
  Add delta 1.9 99.10.11.20.23.45 jhb
  Add delta 1.10 99.10.11.20.33.02 jhb


Claude Buisson



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  3:40:46 1999
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References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121314430.89607-100000@hub.freebsd.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:04:56 +0200
To: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: RE: make world failing because of missing unroff
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At 1:17 PM -0700 1999/10/12, Kris Kennaway wrote:

> Documentation building has ample precedent for external dependencies - the
> entire doc/ tree needs several ports installed to build. I'm sure there
> are other examples in the tree.

	If I may make a suggestion then?  If doc/ needs a particular 
tool, then that tool should be moved from the ports subsystem to the 
main source tree.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4: 5:51 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <762388C091FAD01180FF00A02462137801AC5B89@exchange.nus.edu.sg>
From: Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
To: "'freebsd-question@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-question@freebsd.org>,
	"'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:07:24 +0800
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Dear all,

My apologizes for asking a question which is not so related to the list ...

Here it goes: I have a machine recently upgraded to FreeBSD-Stable 3.3
through cvsup+make world. Some weeks later I decided to give KDE a try, by
(cd /usr/ports/x11/kde11-i18n;make install).  Everything went smoothly
except the KDM, which seems couldn't let me login.  After entering the
correct userid and password at the KDM welcome window, then for a very short
period of time the screen becomes black, very short in fact.  After that the
KDM welcome window will just reappear again.

The password checking part is fine, if I enter the wrong password, some
error message will be printed on the KDM welcome window.

I've checked the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config file.  No any error
message printed in the DisplayManager.errorLogfile (which is the standard
xdm-errors).  I also couldn't find anything in the ~/.xsession-errors file.
in fact, nothing at all in these two files.

I have a ~/.xsession file, which is a symbolic link to ~/.Xclients (mode:
0755).

The KDM was started by typing "kdm" when login as root.

Oddly enough, if I run xdm instead of kdm, everything just works fine.  I
can login successfully and whatever program specified in ~/.Xclients will be
executed, error message/output will also started filling the two error log
files (/usr/X11/...../xdm-errors and ~/.xsession-errors).

I've searched the KDE mailing list, seems someone also facing the same
problem.  Too bad he said he had solve it, by looking at the two error log
file (xdm-error, ~/.xsession-error).

As ususal, any comments/hints will be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

Regards

Gong Wei <gong_wei@nus.edu.sg>


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4: 7: 0 1999
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From: "Morgan Davis" <mdavis@cts.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: make installworld fails (pam_end.3.gz missing)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:06:47 -0700
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install -c -o root -g wheel -m 444 pam.8.gz  /usr/share/man/man8
/usr/share/man/man3/pam_close_session.3.gz ->
/usr/share/man/man3/pam_open_session.3.gz
/usr/share/man/man3/pam_end.3.gz -> /usr/share/man/man3/pam_start.3.gz
ln: /usr/share/man/man3/pam_end.3.gz: No such file or directory
*** Error code 1
cd /usr/src/lib/libpam/libpam/../../../contrib/libpam/libpam_misc;
 install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444  pam_misc.h /usr/include/security
cd /usr/src/lib/libpam/libpam;  install -C -o root -g wheel -m 444
pam_mod_misc.h /usr/include/security
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error
*** Error code 2
1 error



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:18:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
To: Claude Buisson <ubc@paris.framatome.fr>
Subject: RE: make doc error
Cc: FreeBSD-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org
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On 13-Oct-99 Claude Buisson wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Doing make release:
> 
> ===> en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os
> /usr/local/bin/jade -ioutput.html -V nochunks  -c
> /usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/../../../share/sgml/catalo
> g -c
> /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/dsssl/modular/catalog -c
> /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/catalog -c
> /usr/local/share/sgml/jade/catalog  -d
> /usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/../../../share/sgml/freebs
> d.dsl
> -t sgml /usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/article.sgml >
> article.html
> /usr/local/bin/jade:/usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/multi-os/articl
> e.sgml:407:1:E:
> character data is not allowed here
> *** Error code 1

This has been fixed, re-cvsup.

---

John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu> -- http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/
PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.FreeBSD.org/


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:28:18 1999
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From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:04:56 +0200."
             <v04205500b42a09894a7b@[195.238.21.204]> 
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:28:01 +0200
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:04:56 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	If I may make a suggestion then?  If doc/ needs a particular 
> tool, then that tool should be moved from the ports subsystem to the 
> main source tree.

That's a silly idea.

If you want tools distributed with the sources which they support, you
should incorporate the tools into the doc/ tree. But then you'd still
need non-doc tools to build _those_.

It's just a silly idea. :-)

Ciao,
Sheldon.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:35:23 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:35:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" <jedgar@fxp.org>
X-Sender: jedgar@earth.fxp
To: Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
Cc: "'freebsd-question@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-question@freebsd.org>,
	"'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Gong Wei wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> My apologizes for asking a question which is not so related to the list ...
> 
> Here it goes: I have a machine recently upgraded to FreeBSD-Stable 3.3
> through cvsup+make world. Some weeks later I decided to give KDE a try, by
> (cd /usr/ports/x11/kde11-i18n;make install).  Everything went smoothly
> except the KDM, which seems couldn't let me login.  After entering the
> correct userid and password at the KDM welcome window, then for a very short
> period of time the screen becomes black, very short in fact.  After that the
> KDM welcome window will just reappear again.
> 

You may want to search FreeBSD problem reports
(http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?query) for instances of
kdm and/or kde; in particular, PR 8754
(http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=8754) may be of some use.


-----
Chris D. Faulhaber <jedgar@fxp.org> | All the true gurus I've met never
System/Network Administrator,       | claimed they were one and always
Reality Check Information, Inc.     | pointed to someone better.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:35:47 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:35:03 +0200
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 1:28 PM +0200 1999/10/13, Sheldon Hearn wrote:

> If you want tools distributed with the sources which they support, you
> should incorporate the tools into the doc/ tree. But then you'd still
> need non-doc tools to build _those_.

	That's fine, but you shouldn't need anything outside of the 
normal source tree to support those tools, right?  In other words, 
you wouldn't be dependant on yet another program from the ports 
system, right?

	I'm trying to understand just precisely what depends on what, and 
to help ensure that there are no circular dependancies.  I'm also 
trying to help suggest a path whereby we don't have more important 
things (like the doc/ tree) dependant on lesser things (like the 
ports system).

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:39:44 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:35:03 +0200."
             <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> 
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:39:26 +0200
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:35:03 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	That's fine, but you shouldn't need anything outside of the 
> normal source tree to support those tools, right?

Wrong.

The doc tree isn't the src tree at all. Just because the source tree is
supplied with source for all the programs used to build it doesn't mean
it should be supplied with the source for the programs needed to build
the doc tree.

What's next, adding a web server to the src tree to support the www
tree?

Leave this alone now.

Ciao,
Sheldon.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  4:57:24 1999
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From: John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <199910131153.NAA02059@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
In-Reply-To: <000801bf150b$1329e700$2200000a@after.pw2.within.org> from "Sameer R. Manek" at "Oct 12, 1999 04:39:50 pm"
To: manek@quadrunner.com (Sameer R. Manek)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:53:04 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> 
> Show your clients this url http://www.freebsd.org/gallery/gallery.html
> it it works well for that very long list of companies
> http://www.cdrom.com/stats/wcarchive.html

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> would also be a good demonstration url, though it seems that
> ftp.cdrom.com get's rebooted a lot.
> 

It looks like that page isn't updated anymore, try this one for stats
about wcarchive: http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  5: 3:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:02:00 +0200
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 1:39 PM +0200 1999/10/13, Sheldon Hearn wrote:

> The doc tree isn't the src tree at all. Just because the source tree is
> supplied with source for all the programs used to build it doesn't mean
> it should be supplied with the source for the programs needed to build
> the doc tree.

	So, what's required to build the programs to support the doc/ 
tree?  If all they need is unroff, I'd suspect that all you'd need in 
the source tree is gcc/egcs, which should already be there, right?

	If nothing has to be added to the source tree to support the doc 
tree, and the doc tree includes all the tools it will need to support 
itself, then we're fine and we haven't added any unnecessary 
dependancies, right?

> What's next, adding a web server to the src tree to support the www
> tree?

	No, the web server should be a part of the www tree, but the 
programs to build the web server should be part of the source tree, 
at least the way I understand things.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  5:25:42 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:24:33 -0400
To: John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
From: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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>
>It looks like that page isn't updated anymore, try this one for stats
>about wcarchive: http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html

How many ethernet cards are in the unit ? Obviously more than one no ? Or
is it Gigbit Ethernet ?

	---Mike
**********************************************************************
Mike Tancsa, Network Admin        *  mike@sentex.net
Sentex Communications Corp,       *  http://www.sentex.net/mike
Cambridge, Ontario                *  01.519.651.3400
Canada                            *


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  6:56: 8 1999
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 <4.1.19991013082323.03fb5a20@granite.sentex.ca>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:52:23 +0200
To: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>, John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
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At 8:24 AM -0400 1999/10/13, Mike Tancsa wrote:

> How many ethernet cards are in the unit ? Obviously more than one no ? Or
> is it Gigbit Ethernet ?

	If you go back to earlier posts on this subject, you should be 
able to find mention of the first day on which they pushed more than 
a TB in a 24-hour period.  If I'm not mistaken, this was due to the 
upgrading of the WAN bandwidth, the installation of Gigabit Ethernet 
in the machine, and the release of a new version of RedHat Linux all 
around the same time.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  7:14:54 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Message-Id: <199910131414.KAA48832@blackhelicopters.org>
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
In-Reply-To: <38040E87.D9E18AB5@ix.netcom.com> from Ben Speirs at "Oct 12, 1999  9:45:59 pm"
To: igiveup@ix.netcom.com (Ben Speirs)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > > [Try a light garlic and basil marinade. Roast for 5 minutes per pound,
> > > basting every half hour]
> > [Is that chopped or crushed garlic? And what kind of drink goes with
> > it?]
> 
> [Mmm ... young, tender newbies!  Watch out for the tough hackers
> though.  Roasted hacker leaves a pretty bitter taste in your mouth. ]

Garlic preferences depend on taste; I prefer crushed with newbie.

For roasted hacker, I generally use a marinade with a base of
raspberry vinagerette.  The berry tang helps soften the bitter hacker
flavor.

> I like the plan for catching the newbies that go astray and teaching
> them.  For the rare bits of spam and the incredibly clueless newbie
> posts, there is always the delete key.

Well, I look at it another way: if someone *wants* to piss us off,
resulting in their computer screen melting in a burst of flame, who
are we to say no?  ;)

Next on the newbie trouble document list: linux mode and make world

==ml


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  8:11:58 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: "Patrick Bihan-Faou" <patrick@mindstep.com>
To: "David G Andersen" <danderse@cs.utah.edu>
Cc: <freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>,
	<freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
References: <199910131428.KAA11701@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <199910131436.IAA02185@faith.cs.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: FreeSSH
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:11:43 -0400
Organization: MindStep Corporation
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Hi All,

>    It strikes me that having the base system be slightly more decomposed
> could be advantageous.  It would be great to be able to do something like:
>
>    pkg_delete lp
>    pkg_delete yp
>
>    Has anyone done/tried this in the past, and if so, what was the
> reaction?  Or what do people think?  I realize this sounds a bit like the
> "everything is an rpm or dpkg" methodology from Linux, but as long as the
> 'base' packages are handled automatically, then it shouldn't impose the
> same inconvenience.


I think that it would be the next best thing since the package/ports system
(as well as a logical step forward). I would love to see most of the things
that installed with a "make world" be also registered in the package
database. This would make things like upgrading bind, removing sendmail etc
a lot easier.

However I think that this discussion goes beyond the scope of the "security"
mailing list. I copied it to the "current" and "stable" lists as well. I
guess the discussion should be held in "current"...


Patrick.

--
MindStep Corporation
www.mindstep.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  8:13:37 1999
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Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
X-OS: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE
X-Sender: cy
To: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com,
	FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:26:58 EDT."
             <4.1.19991011201932.04dabe40@granite.sentex.ca> 
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In message <4.1.19991011201932.04dabe40@granite.sentex.ca>, Mike Tancsa writes:
> >>    Hotmail has troubleshooted the problem down to the NCR controller. It
> >> appears that the problem only occurs when using one of those. If they plug
> >> in an Adaptec 2940 and use it instead of the onboard NCR then the problems
> >> disappear.
> >
> >We did this (you remember that we went through all this a while back, 
> >right?), but we've also been seing reports from people that aren't 
> >using NCR controllers.
> 
> Could it just be a particular BIOS setting affecting things as well ?  I
> didnt look at the issue too closely, but on the SMP box below, I was having
> inital problems until I re assigned the IRQs to be on more sane values if I
> recall correctly (e.g not 9/11 or shared with something else).  I believe I
> also looked at some DMA settings in the BIOS, but it has been a while since
> I set this particular box up.  On the box below, the IRQ values displayed
> in the dmesg, are not the same as what is displayed at boot up time.  With
> it, I did get a few fxp time outs and such and the box did panic once.  It
> could be something totally unrelated, but this discussion does ring a bell
> with me.

This reminds me of an AHC SCSI controller that froze during FreeBSD 
boot after a Y2K BIOS patch had been installed.  There could be some
timings that some BIOS's use that we don't know about.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group    Internet:  Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Province of BC
                      "e**(i*pi)+1=0"





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  8:21: 4 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: takuan@allunix.com
To: Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:22:08 -0700
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Subject: Re: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
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From:           	Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
To:             	"'freebsd-question@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG>,
       	"'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:        	KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
Date sent:      	Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:07:24 +080

Unless KDM is compilied with the right support IE ./configure --with-
pam or --enable-shadow it will have the same problems as what you 
are describing. Of course the above examples relate to linux. KDM is 
just a optional GUI log in screen. The way to start KDE is with a 
script called startkde which should have been installed on your 
system by default.

> Dear all,
> 
> My apologizes for asking a question which is not so related to the list ...
> 
> Here it goes: I have a machine recently upgraded to FreeBSD-Stable 3.3
> through cvsup+make world. Some weeks later I decided to give KDE a try, by
> (cd /usr/ports/x11/kde11-i18n;make install).  Everything went smoothly
> except the KDM, which seems couldn't let me login.  After entering the
> correct userid and password at the KDM welcome window, then for a very short
> period of time the screen becomes black, very short in fact.  After that the
> KDM welcome window will just reappear again.
> 
> The password checking part is fine, if I enter the wrong password, some
> error message will be printed on the KDM welcome window.
> 
> I've checked the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config file.  No any error
> message printed in the DisplayManager.errorLogfile (which is the standard
> xdm-errors).  I also couldn't find anything in the ~/.xsession-errors file.
> in fact, nothing at all in these two files.
> 
> I have a ~/.xsession file, which is a symbolic link to ~/.Xclients (mode:
> 0755).
> 
> The KDM was started by typing "kdm" when login as root.
> 
> Oddly enough, if I run xdm instead of kdm, everything just works fine.  I
> can login successfully and whatever program specified in ~/.Xclients will be
> executed, error message/output will also started filling the two error log
> files (/usr/X11/...../xdm-errors and ~/.xsession-errors).
> 
> I've searched the KDE mailing list, seems someone also facing the same
> problem.  Too bad he said he had solve it, by looking at the two error log
> file (xdm-error, ~/.xsession-error).
> 
> As ususal, any comments/hints will be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gong Wei <gong_wei@nus.edu.sg>
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  8:52: 6 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:46:00 +0200
From: "Jose M. Alcaide" <jose@we.lc.ehu.es>
Organization: Universidad del =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pa=EDs?= Vasco - Dpto. de Electricidad y 
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Electr=F3nica?=
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To: Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
Cc: "'freebsd-question@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG>,
	"'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
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Gong Wei wrote:
> 
> Here it goes: I have a machine recently upgraded to FreeBSD-Stable 3.3
> through cvsup+make world. Some weeks later I decided to give KDE a try, by
> (cd /usr/ports/x11/kde11-i18n;make install).  Everything went smoothly
> except the KDM, which seems couldn't let me login.  After entering the
> correct userid and password at the KDM welcome window, then for a very short
> period of time the screen becomes black, very short in fact.  After that the
> KDM welcome window will just reappear again.
> 
> [snip]

Create a file named ".xsession" in your home directory containing a
line saying "exec startkde", and try again.

-- JMA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
José Mª Alcaide                         | mailto:jose@we.lc.ehu.es
Universidad del País Vasco              | mailto:jmas@FreeBSD.org
Dpto. de Electricidad y Electrónica     | http://www.we.lc.ehu.es/~jose
Facultad de Ciencias - Campus de Lejona | Tel.:  +34-946012479
48940 Lejona (Vizcaya) - SPAIN          | Fax:   +34-946013071
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
            "Keyboard not present -- Press F1 to resume"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  9: 2:13 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:59:43 +0200
To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>,
	Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: SMP + fxp0 wierdness
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com,
	FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 8:12 AM -0700 1999/10/13, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote:

> This reminds me of an AHC SCSI controller that froze during FreeBSD
> boot after a Y2K BIOS patch had been installed.  There could be some
> timings that some BIOS's use that we don't know about.

	I must admit, I've been sitting here silently reading and trying 
to understand everything on this thread.

	I haven't had any problems with SMP and fxp0, although I'd be 
very interested to know the exact situations in which others have, so 
that I can hopefully avoid those configurations myself.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  9:11:46 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-Id: <199910131611.MAA55004@misha.cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
In-Reply-To: <38040E87.D9E18AB5@ix.netcom.com> from Ben Speirs at "Oct 12, 1999
 09:45:59 pm"
To: Ben Speirs <igiveup@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@freebsd.org
Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com
From: Mikhail Teterin <mi@aldan.algebra.com>
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Ben Speirs once wrote:

> I will be tracking him down to buy him** a beer so he will keep it the
> way it  is. Those of us  who do our homework,  searching the archives,
> deja.com, man pages,  etc. should not have to jump  through a bunch of
> hoops to use the lists.

Perhaps, an  automatic message (with  pointers, etc.) should be  sent in
response to an e-mail coming back from a not-yet-seen address?

Also, some frequently spammed news-groups and mailing lists have adopted
a practice of requiring every posting to contain a special word (such as
FBSD).  The  way  we  can  use  this would  be:  "if  you  post  from  a
non-registered address,  add FBSD at  the end  of the subject  line". Is
this to narrow of a hoop?

	-mi


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  9:34:17 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:33:45 +0200
From: Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>
To: Patrick Bihan-Faou <patrick@mindstep.com>,
	David G Andersen <danderse@cs.utah.edu>
Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeSSH
References: <199910131428.KAA11701@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <199910131436.IAA02185@faith.cs.utah.edu> <00a801bf158d$421afc20$190aa8c0@local.mindstep.com>
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[ -security trimmed from Cc: ]

On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:11:43AM -0400, Patrick Bihan-Faou wrote:
> >    pkg_delete lp
> >    pkg_delete yp
> >
> >    Has anyone done/tried this in the past, and if so, what was the
> > reaction?  Or what do people think?  I realize this sounds a bit like the
> > "everything is an rpm or dpkg" methodology from Linux, but as long as the
> > 'base' packages are handled automatically, then it shouldn't impose the
> > same inconvenience.
> 
> I think that it would be the next best thing since the package/ports system
> (as well as a logical step forward). I would love to see most of the things
> that installed with a "make world" be also registered in the package
> database. This would make things like upgrading bind, removing sendmail etc
> a lot easier.

There are a _lot_ of pitfalls to this kind of approach, as I have
discovered using Linux Debian. This would probably open a can of
worms you have no idea of. IMHO, the single biggest mistake in
Debian is the all-encompassing package system which can make your
life miserable in no time.

I have found this the hard way, because I have to administer a
network of Debian PCs. Any attempt to upgrade something, even a
minor application, rapidly turns into a dependency nigthmare forcing
you to update half of your system. This is made even worse by
endless changes in the glibc, itself included in the package system:
since you can code that dependency in the package system, many
packages require such and such version of the glibc. In turn,
frequent incompatible updates of the glibc are made by the developpers
with the excuse that it's all handled by the package system anyway...

To that, you can add several other flaws (broken stable vs unstable
policy, no /usr/local, many installation scripts asking for
interactive input...).

The bottom line is: I'm much happier with FreeBSD's use of
distributions for the base system than with a Debian-style package
system.

That is no to say there can be no good package system, but we have
to think twice before we implement anything like that, first and
foremost dependencies on system libraries.

And, IMHO, package handling for general-purpose applications and
package handling for the core system are a very different problem
and should be handled in very different ways.

The Solaris way, while far from perfect, is at least usable for
the most past to handle choice at installation and (not too frequent)
evolutions of system components.
-- 
Pierre Beyssac		pb@enst.fr


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  9:45:10 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles528.castles.com [208.214.165.92])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C2715363
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98
To: "Paul Horechuk" <phorechuk@docucom.ca>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: X won't start 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:13:43 EDT."
             <013001bf1446$b7718680$73f8d7a5@paul.docucom.ca> 
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> Thanks for a couple of previous suggestions, but I still have the same
> problem. I checked the symbolic link for X and it appeared correct, except
> for the group access:

This belongs on -questions.

> lrwxrwxr-x   1 root     12000       24 May 28 20:58 /usr/X11R6/bin/X ->
> /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_Mach64*
> 
> I recreated it as wheel.
> 
> Still no luck. FYI I get the following errors:
> 
> _X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno=2

You probably don't have the loopback interface running. 

-- 
\\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
\\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime.             \\  msmith@cdrom.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13  9:50:59 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from binnacle.wantabe.com (binnacle.wantabe.com [209.16.8.14])
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:50:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Jeffrey J. Libman" <jeffrl@wantabe.com>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: re: building pgp5 from ports fails 
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910131150001.69581-100000@binnacle.wantabe.com>
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i am trying to build pgp5 from the ports collection, and i get the
following:

>> Checksum OK for pgp50i-unix-src.tar.gz.
===>  Patching for pgp-5.0i
===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for pgp-5.0i
File to patch:


any help?

thanks in advance.

cheers,
jeff

                                |
                                |\            +------------------------------+
Jeffrey J. Libman, ops. mgr.    | \           |  Wantabe Internet Services   |
Wantabe, Inc.                   |__\          +------------------------------+
jeffrl@wantabe.com        <-----|------>      | access web cgi ftp news mail |
(281) 493-0718       __,.-=\'`^`'~=-../__,.-= +------------------------------+



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 10: 4:18 1999
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From: "Patrick Bihan-Faou" <patrick@mindstep.com>
To: "Pierre Beyssac" <beyssac@enst.fr>,
	"David G Andersen" <danderse@cs.utah.edu>
Cc: <freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <199910131428.KAA11701@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <199910131436.IAA02185@faith.cs.utah.edu> <00a801bf158d$421afc20$190aa8c0@local.mindstep.com> <19991013183345.A24019@enst.fr>
Subject: Re: package-like feature for the base distrib (was Re: FreeSSH)
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Hi,

From: Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>

> There are a _lot_ of pitfalls to this kind of approach, as I have
> discovered using Linux Debian. This would probably open a can of
> worms you have no idea of. IMHO, the single biggest mistake in
> Debian is the all-encompassing package system which can make your
> life miserable in no time.

[...]

I was not talking about things that constitute the "real" core of the
distribution (kernel, basic libraries etc.). I was more thinking about
"userland" stuff that is included in the distribution but might not be
required by everybody. Sendmail for example is something I don't want since
I user qmail. However I have to remove it by hand... Other examples are bind
or perl.

Basically I think anything that has an equivalent and/or an alternate
installation method in/via the "ports" system should be registered with the
rest of the packages.

> And, IMHO, package handling for general-purpose applications and
> package handling for the core system are a very different problem
> and should be handled in very different ways.

Agreed. This is the key. The package/ports system is really great as is. The
split between the distribution and the packages/ports is sometime annoying.
Again I think this mostly concerns "userland" features that are not required
for the core of FreeBSD.


Patrick.

--
MindStep Corporation
www.mindstep.com




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 11:11:23 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from puffer.quadrunner.com (adsl-63-195-0-34.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [63.195.0.34])
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	(envelope-from manek@quadrunner.com)
From: "Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>
To: "Mike Tancsa" <mike@sentex.net>,
	"John Hay" <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
Cc: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: 3.5-stable ?
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:10:15 -0700
Message-ID: <000201bf15a6$32ee5da0$2200000a@after.pw2.within.org>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike Tancsa
>
> >It looks like that page isn't updated anymore, try this one for stats
> >about wcarchive: http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html
> 
> How many ethernet cards are in the unit ? Obviously more than one no ? Or
> is it Gigbit Ethernet ?
> 

The beauty of the internet is nearly everything is documented 
somewhere, the trick is knowing where to find it. This url
will tell you the configuration of ftp.cdrom.com

ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt

I suspect this configuration could also be viewed as the ideal 
hardware configuration for FreeBSD as well.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 11:20: 4 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	id D1C471CD585; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
To: "Jeffrey J. Libman" <jeffrl@wantabe.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: re: building pgp5 from ports fails 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910131150001.69581-100000@binnacle.wantabe.com>
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Jeffrey J. Libman wrote:

> i am trying to build pgp5 from the ports collection, and i get the
> following:
> 
> >> Checksum OK for pgp50i-unix-src.tar.gz.
> ===>  Patching for pgp-5.0i
> ===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for pgp-5.0i
> File to patch:

Looks like you have either an outdated port, or extra crud in there
somewhere. The PGP5 port is building fine, according to
http://bento.freebsd.org

Kris

----
XOR for AES -- join the campaign!



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 11:24:58 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:22:40 -0400
To: "Sameer R. Manek" <manek@quadrunner.com>,
	"John Hay" <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
From: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net>
Subject: RE: 3.5-stable ?
Cc: <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <000201bf15a6$32ee5da0$2200000a@after.pw2.within.org>
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At 11:10 AM 10/13/99 -0700, Sameer R. Manek wrote:
>The beauty of the internet is nearly everything is documented 
>somewhere, the trick is knowing where to find it. This url
>will tell you the configuration of ftp.cdrom.com


Ahh yes.  I checked there, saw 

1 Intel Pro/100+ PCI 100Mbps Fast Ethernet controller
and stopped reading thinking that the file was just out of date ;-)  I
didnt notice the very next line which says

1 Bay Networks Netgear GA620 Gigabit Ethernet adapter

:-)

Most impressive!

	---Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Tancsa,                          	          tel 01.519.651.3400
Network Administrator,     			  mike@sentex.net
Sentex Communications                 		  www.sentex.net
Cambridge, Ontario Canada


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 11:48:59 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from chumbly.math.missouri.edu (chumbly.math.missouri.edu [128.206.72.12])
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	Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:48:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Winkel <rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Message-Id: <199910131848.NAA18297@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
To: adhir@forumone.com (Alok K. Dhir)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:48:45 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: kris@hub.freebsd.org, mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org,
	manek@quadrunner.com, stable@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910122358160.20877-100000@dipper.forumone.com> from "Alok K. Dhir" at Oct 12, 99 11:58:49 pm
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According to Alok K. Dhir:
> Would the fact that Yahoo! runs FreeBSD (it does) satisfy your client...?

Which version?  That's the question.

Rich



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 11:52:42 1999
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To: "'Rich Winkel'" <rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Cc: <kris@hub.freebsd.org>, <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>,
	<manek@quadrunner.com>, <stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: 3.5-stable ?
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:05:29 -0400
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Aah - good question - No idea...  :-)

I'd be surprised if Jordan didn't know, though...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Winkel [mailto:rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 2:49 PM
> To: Alok Dhir
> Cc: kris@hub.freebsd.org; mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org;
> manek@quadrunner.com; stable@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
> 
> 
> According to Alok K. Dhir:
> > Would the fact that Yahoo! runs FreeBSD (it does) satisfy 
> your client...?
> 
> Which version?  That's the question.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 13: 2:33 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from SMilliken@sti.imshealth.com)
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Subject: Last rehash on 3.3-install.cd0
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:48:46 -0400
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Just as an FYI, I have found a program besides cdrecord that burns the image
with no problems.  We use CeQuadrat WinOnCD 3.6 (for MS Windows/NT) at work
and it toasted the image perfectly - aka it boots.

Scott Milliken


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 13:44:55 1999
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From: Rich Winkel <rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Message-Id: <199910132044.PAA01075@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Subject: GENERIC won't compile
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:44:49 -0500 (CDT)
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cvsupped tuesday at 18:00 CDT:

cc -c -O -pipe -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h -elf  ../../pci/if_sis.c
../../pci/if_sis.c:57: bpf.h: No such file or directory
../../pci/if_sis.c:362: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
*** Error code 1

Stop.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 15:38: 8 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:37:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: <adepoo@tamnet.com.mx>
To: "'stable@freebsd.org'" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Last rehash on 3.3-install.cd0
In-Reply-To: <C26E7066AAA6D211AB16006097A52FCC5F63F6@stiusatlcx1.salestech.com>
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Milliken, Scott wrote:

> Just as an FYI, I have found a program besides cdrecord that burns the image
> with no problems.  We use CeQuadrat WinOnCD 3.6 (for MS Windows/NT) at work
> and it toasted the image perfectly - aka it boots.
> 
> Scott Milliken
> 

I used Nero and it boots ok.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 15:57:51 1999
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To: "Jeffrey J. Libman" <jeffrl@wantabe.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: building pgp5 from ports fails 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:50:46 CDT."
             <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910131150001.69581-100000@binnacle.wantabe.com> 
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:03:19 -0400
From: W Gerald Hicks <wghicks@bellsouth.net>
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If you haven't cvsup'd I recommend doing that.  If you have cvsup'd
then delete the pgp5 port directory in its entirety and cvsup again.

If this doesn't help either then try fetching the distfile from
ftp.freebsd.org or one of the mirrors and building again.

pgp5 is evil anyway  :-)

Good Luck,

Jerry Hicks
wghicks@bellsouth.net

> 
> i am trying to build pgp5 from the ports collection, and i get the
> following:
> 
> >> Checksum OK for pgp50i-unix-src.tar.gz.
> ===>  Patching for pgp-5.0i
> ===>  Applying FreeBSD patches for pgp-5.0i
> File to patch:
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 16: 1:14 1999
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	(envelope-from matt@BabCom.ORG)
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From: matt <matt@BabCom.ORG>
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To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Broken aout csu library build?
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Hello,
	I'm running FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE cvsupped on September 17th. I went
to install the flash plugin in the ports tree, following the directions to:

--quote--
1. extract /usr/src/lib (distribution files: src/slib.??)
2. cd /usr/src/lib/csu/i386
3. make clean depend
4. make all install 
--end quote--

And this was the result, any ideas of what can fix this? or perhaps I am
missing something needed to build this?

root[dns02]:/usr/src/lib/csu/i386# make clean depend
rm -f a.out crt0.o.tmp c++rt0.o.tmp gcrt0.o.tmp scrt0.o.tmp  sgcrt0.o.tmp
crt0.o c++rt0.o gcrt0.o scrt0.o sgcrt0.o

root[dns02]:/usr/src/lib/csu/i386# make all
cc -O -pipe -DLIBC_SCCS -fno-omit-frame-pointer   -c -DCRT0 -DDYNAMIC
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c -o crt0.o
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c: In function `__do_dynamic_link':
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:196: storage size of `crt' isn't known
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:260: `CRT_VERSION_BSD_5' undeclared (first
use this function)
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:260: (Each undeclared identifier is reported
only once
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:260: for each function it appears in.)
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:264: `CRT_VERSION_BSD_4' undeclared (first
use this function)
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:268: `CRT_VERSION_BSD_3' undeclared (first
use this function)
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:269: invalid use of undefined type `struct
_dynamic'
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:275: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:288: `LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLEXIT' undeclared
(first use this function)
/usr/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c:289: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
*** Error code 1

Stop.


--
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians
 would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees
 and written evolution off as a bad idea. Hell, I always thought the
 opposable thumb was overrated."
        -Sheridan, "A Distant Star"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 19:40:57 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: Gong Wei <ccegongw@nus.edu.sg>
To: "'mi@aldan.algebra.com'" <mi@aldan.algebra.com>
Cc: "'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:09:04 +0800
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Hi all,

Yes there is a file /tmp/xses- created which contains a single line of
output:"Error: cannot open display".

Since this means /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession has been called.  So I've
modified that file, add in a line near the top "set > /tmp/report".  After
that, I restar the KDM, try login, got this in the /tmp/report file:
=====================
MAIL=/var/mail/ccegongw
PS1=$ 
OPTIND=1
PS2=> 
BLOCKSIZE=K
TERM=su
PATH=/home/ccegongw/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin
XAUTHORITY=/tmp/.XauthJa4048
IFS= 	
============

However, if I kill the KDM and start a XDM instead, this is what I get from
the /tmp/report file:
====================
USER=ccegongw
HOME=/home/ccegongw
PS1=$ 
OPTIND=1
PS2=> 
LOGNAME=ccegongw
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/gnu/bin:/usr/local/bi
n
DISPLAY=:0
SHELL=/usr/local/bin/bash
IFS= 	
===========

I am really surprised since some important environment variables are not set
when using KDM.

PS: I can start kde without any problem if login through xdm.  The last line
of my ~/.xsession file is "ssh-agent /usr/local/bin/startkde".

Thanks to all for your time and effort!

-----Original Message-----
From: Mikhail Teterin [mailto:mi@aldan.algebra.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:16 AM
To: Gong Wei
Subject: Re: KDM and FreeBSD 3.3


Gong Wei once wrote:

> I've searched the KDE mailing list, seems someone also facing the same
> problem. Too bad he said he had  solve it, by looking at the two error
> log file (xdm-error, ~/.xsession-error).

Check for  the /tmp/*xsession-error*  too. Sometimes,  it may  go there.
Also, the name  of the selected session (kde, failsafe)  is given to the
.xsession  script as  an argument.  Is  you ~/.Xclients  looking at  the
arguments at all?

Also, is /usr/X11R6/bin in the PATH?

	-mi


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 21: 1:45 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <19991013210123.A16352@best.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:01:23 -0700
From: "Jan B. Koum " <jkb@best.com>
To: adhir@forumone.com,
	"'Rich Winkel'" <rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>
Cc: kris@hub.freebsd.org, mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org,
	manek@quadrunner.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
References: <D1E51FFB3744D311973A00104BD1D6BE0D5CBA@PLUTO> <D1E51FFB3744D311973A00104BD1D6BE06D143@PLUTO>
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acton% ssh s24 'uptime ; uname -a'
 8:55PM  up 427 days, 47 mins, 2 users, load averages: 0.84, 0.63, 0.45
FreeBSD s24.yahoo.com 2.1-STABLE.Y-19971019 FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE.Y-19971019 #0: Thu Feb 19 01:50:10 PST 1998 root@s24.yahoo.com:/home/src/sys/compile/YAHOO  i386

the spread is about 20% still in 2.1, 60% in 2.2 and 20% in 3.x

the problem is not stability (we love 3.x) -- the problem is when you run
a site this big, you use what works .. you can't risk downtime "just
because we want to upgrade". Another major problem is that it takes time
for engineering to port the code to newer versions.

I suspect we will have no 2.1 machines in a year and no 2.2 machines in
two or three. Legacy is a dangerous thing -- why do you think there are
still shops which use dinosaurus-like mainframes with liquid cooling? ;)

-- Yan


On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 03:05:29PM -0400, adhir@forumone.com wrote:
> Aah - good question - No idea...  :-)
> 
> I'd be surprised if Jordan didn't know, though...
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rich Winkel [mailto:rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 2:49 PM
> > To: Alok Dhir
> > Cc: kris@hub.freebsd.org; mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org;
> > manek@quadrunner.com; stable@freebsd.org
> > Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
> > 
> > 
> > According to Alok K. Dhir:
> > > Would the fact that Yahoo! runs FreeBSD (it does) satisfy 
> > your client...?
> > 
> > Which version?  That's the question.
> > 
> > Rich
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 21:47:49 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-Id: <199910140446.AAA80870@misha.cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
In-Reply-To: <19991014141006.A17357@caamora.com.au> from jonathan michaels at
 "Oct 14, 1999 02:10:06 pm"
To: jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:46:59 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: stable@freebsd.org
Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com
From: Mikhail Teterin <mi@aldan.algebra.com>
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jonathan michaels once wrote:

> > Also,  some frequently  spammed news-groups  and mailing  lists have
> > adopted a practice  of requiring every posting to  contain a special
> > word (such as FBSD). The way we  can use this would be: "if you post
> > from a  non-registered address, add FBSD  at the end of  the subject
> > line". Is this to narrow of a hoop?
> 
> thats a  bit to  obvious and  cumbersome .. someting  a bit  nicer and
> easier to anminister would be to add a header like,
> 
> x-some-secret-word: freebsd

Many mail-programs do not allow custom headers. Getmessage.com would not
let you do that, I believe hotmail.com too...

	-mi


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 22:50: 2 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58])
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	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
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From: John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <199910140549.HAA17067@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: GENERIC won't compile
In-Reply-To: <199910132044.PAA01075@chumbly.math.missouri.edu> from Rich Winkel at "Oct 13, 1999 03:44:49 pm"
To: rich@chumbly.math.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:49:46 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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I fixed it yesterday, so just cvsup again.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za

> cvsupped tuesday at 18:00 CDT:
> 
> cc -c -O -pipe -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h -elf  ../../pci/if_sis.c
> ../../pci/if_sis.c:57: bpf.h: No such file or directory
> ../../pci/if_sis.c:362: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
> *** Error code 1
> 
> Stop.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 23:14:15 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 02:14:08 -0400
From: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>
To: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com>
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On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 01:39:26PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:35:03 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> > 	That's fine, but you shouldn't need anything outside of the 
> > normal source tree to support those tools, right?
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> The doc tree isn't the src tree at all. Just because the source tree is
> supplied with source for all the programs used to build it doesn't mean
> it should be supplied with the source for the programs needed to build
> the doc tree.

I think Brad's point is that the tools needed to build the Doc tree
should be included in the doc tree.  At one point Nik was working on
doing this, I don't know if he still has it on his todo list or not.
 
-- 
Scott Kenney  >|<  saken@hotel.rmta.org


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 23:20:39 1999
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Message-Id: <199910140621.AAA50643@harmony.village.org>
To: Will Andrews <andrews@TECHNOLOGIST.COM>
Subject: Re: merging current's jail functionality to stable 
Cc: Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@scc.nl>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Oct 1999 13:28:48 EDT."
		<XFMail.991009132848.andrews@TECHNOLOGIST.COM> 
References: <XFMail.991009132848.andrews@TECHNOLOGIST.COM>  
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:21:32 -0600
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <XFMail.991009132848.andrews@TECHNOLOGIST.COM> Will Andrews writes:
: So, I say, leave it out of -STABLE until 4.0-CURRENT becomes -STABLE (probably 
: February-March 2000?). Vendors have plenty of time until then to reimplement
: their suser()-dependent features.

4.x will likely not be -STABLE until 4.1 is released, if history is
any indication.  And 3.x won't be retired until 4.2 or 4.3 is
released.

Warner


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 23:28:50 1999
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To: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.runet.edu>
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
Cc: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:32:41 EDT."
		<Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121428190.8786-100000@peloton.runet.edu> 
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121428190.8786-100000@peloton.runet.edu>  
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:29:47 -0600
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In message <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121428190.8786-100000@peloton.runet.edu> Brett Taylor writes:
: At this point, the longer you wait to switch to 3.*, the more and more
: you'll find yourself losing that game of Russian roulette.  Official
: support for the 2.2 ports tree is gone - we TRY to make things compile on
: 2.2.* but I don't even have a machine anymore at 2.2.* and there are ports
: that are known not to work on 2.2 (gtk and glib are notorious,
: particularly due to the libtool port).

The Security officer is no longer even mentioning 2.2.x patches, even
when available, in security advisories.  It is too old and none of the
security team has access to 2.2.x systems to do even minimal testing.

Warner Losh
FreeBSD Security Officer


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 23:46: 6 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:48:22 -0700 (MST)
To: stable@freebsd.org
Subject: PNIC II -- quick change to LINT
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Hello all,

I recently purchases a Linksys EtherFast LNE100TX (version 2) NIC card (as it
was cheap and on the "supported list" :). I was grepping through a very
recently CVSup'ed LINT for clues on which driver I needed to include in my
kernel config to get this beastie recognized. It was not apparent (wether to
choose the 'mx' or 'pn' driver). With minimal digging around through the
archives and a few "man 4 <driver>"'s I soon discovered that it should be the
"mx" driver.

I've included a small diff to LINT which explains that the 'mx' driver also
supports this chip (PNIC II) found in the Linksys LNE100TX version 2. Perhaps
it will help other buyers of this card get to paydirt quicker. I didn't know if
something this small 'deserved' a send-pr ... Commit at will ;-)

-Jr


--- LINT.orig   Wed Oct 13 23:35:15 1999
+++ LINT        Wed Oct 13 23:40:12 1999
@@ -1544,7 +1544,9 @@
 # PCI Fast Ethernet adapters.
 #
 # The `mx' device provides support for various fast ethernet adapters
-# based on the Macronix 98713, 987615 ans 98725 series chips.
+# based on the Macronix 98713, 987615 and 98725 series chips as well as
+# support for the Lite-On 82c115 PNIC II chip (found in Linksys EtherFast
+# Model No. LNE100TX *Version 2*).
 #
 # The `pn' device provides support for various fast ethernet adapters
 # based on the Lite-On 82c168 and 82c169 PNIC chips, including the


-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John Reynolds         Chandler Capabilities Engineering, CDS, Intel Corporation
jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com  My opinions are mine, not Intel's. Running
jreynold@primenet.com          FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE. FreeBSD: The Power to Serve.
http://www.primenet.com/~jreynold/  Come join us!!! @ http://www.FreeBSD.org/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Wed Oct 13 23:49: 5 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Broken X and window managers
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:49:02 GMT
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Hope this is the right place to post this

Using 3.3 I have tried just about everything to get X and "a" window manager 
to work, not being a FreeBSD expert I have run out of ideas. I cannot get 
Gnome to work at all, nor Afterstep with Gnome , I managed finally after 
about 3 days to get KDE running, but none of the apps etc will work (I can 
get a terminal, and the menu's all operate, whoo hoo :-) ) , I have added 
packages like a madman, actually filling the disk at one stage, I have read 
the FAQ's etc. Its a cheapbytes CD if that helps, is there some major step I 
have missed, the CD broken, or is X crumby on FreeBSD ?

Signed, Never had so much X ing trouble before

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  0:45:36 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:47:57 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014094757.A55594@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910121314430.89607-100000@hub.freebsd.org> <v04205500b42a09894a7b@[195.238.21.204]>
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On Wed 1999-10-13 (12:04), Brad Knowles wrote:
> > Documentation building has ample precedent for external dependencies - the
> > entire doc/ tree needs several ports installed to build. I'm sure there
> > are other examples in the tree.
> 
> 	If I may make a suggestion then?  If doc/ needs a particular 
> tool, then that tool should be moved from the ports subsystem to the 
> main source tree.

Damn, I never got to this quick enough.

doc/ is not built in world.  Anything necessary to build world
should be in src/, yes.

There's no reason we should provide all the tools to build doc/
and www/, since the building of these trees personally is only of
use to people wishing to contribute to them.  They are available
in "compiled" form via packages (doc) or cvsup (www).

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  0:46:52 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:49:12 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>,
	Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.FreeBSD.ORG>,
	Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe <mitayai@aecinfo.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014094912.B55594@rucus.ru.ac.za>
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On Wed 1999-10-13 (14:02), Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	So, what's required to build the programs to support the doc/ 
> tree?  If all they need is unroff, I'd suspect that all you'd need in 
> the source tree is gcc/egcs, which should already be there, right?

doc/ requires an entire herd of rather large and painful sgml tools.

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  0:48:18 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:50:38 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>,
	Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
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On Thu 1999-10-14 (02:14), Scott Kenney wrote:
> > The doc tree isn't the src tree at all. Just because the source tree is
> > supplied with source for all the programs used to build it doesn't mean
> > it should be supplied with the source for the programs needed to build
> > the doc tree.
> 
> I think Brad's point is that the tools needed to build the Doc tree
> should be included in the doc tree.  At one point Nik was working on
> doing this, I don't know if he still has it on his todo list or not.

I doubt it.  Ports are there to provide us with programs.  Doc is
there to provide us with documents.  Messing with these roles is
likely to be painful and confusing.

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  1:21:44 1999
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	(envelope-from plambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:21:37 -0700
From: "Paul M . Lambert" <plambert@plambert.net>
To: stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
Message-ID: <19991014012137.C16450@pinky.plambert.net>
References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au> <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com> <v04205502b426c455aa8b@[195.238.21.204]> <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com>
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
> > 
> >         IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd
> > mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an
> > automated response.
> 
> Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
> alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
> of this being implemented.
> 

Perhaps there is a better idea.

There are a number of people on the lists who are technically competent
and have a reasonable understanding of the way FreeBSD works.  They can
easily answer most of the newbies' questions and point them (gently
at first, and later with the Thunderous LART of Righteousness) to the
correct places to get their answers.  Many of these people are currently
doing this.

There are a number of people on the lists who are even more
technically competent, or perhaps equally competent but differently
inclined, who can leap tall device drivers in a single bound, and have
the in-depth knowledge necessary to solve amazingly specific problems.

The latter group are the people we're trying to protect, if I understand
things correctly.  I don't want the people with commit access to have
to wade through piles of messages about "how do I get FreeBSD to install
on my Winblows '02 box?" when they'd be happier (and more productive--I'm
being essentially selfish here ;-) looking at stack traces and so forth.

We can't scare the latter group away by exposing them to the newbies.
We can't scare the newbies away by exposing them to the latter group.
What if the former group (the "competents") were to step in as a line
of defense for the latter group (the "gurus").  I use the names lightly,
for lack of a better set of labels.

Specifically, when a newbie sends a question to the list, perhaps someone
who is pretty sure they know the answer and pretty sure they have time to
field it, could simply reply.  I, for example, am useless to the FreeBSD
movement in most ways.  I can read the lists, and understand what's
being said, but I couldn't write a piece of C to save my life.  I _could_,
however, put together a boilerplate set of replies and throw them at
people when they needed them.

Now, you're all thinking, "How is this different from the way things
work now?  Silly plambert, no biscuit."

However, what if, in my reply, I were to make it a _real_ reply (I and
my peers probably know how to do that, and probably use mailers that do it for us) with an
appropriate In-Reply-To: header.  So it threads correctly.  And we
could add a "X-Handled:" header.  Or "[HANDLED]" to the Subject:.

Why?  So that the people who don't care to read questions that have
been asked and answered before can ignore that entire thread.  Heck,
with some creativity, most of the "gurus" could delete threads that
have been handled.  So they wouldn't have to deal with them.

The "gurus" that don't have threaded email readers could still fake
it...  It'd be easy enough to make procmail and perl go back and add
the header and/or subject-tag to the original message if a reply comes
through with the header and/or subject-tag.

Now, this is just an idea I'm having late at night.  There are millions
of reasons why it can't work.  I just can't come up with them at the moment.

I'm sure someone will tell me.  ;-)

But the advantages are that things still work basically the same as they
do now.  Anyone can post.  Anyone can answer any question.  Newbies get
swift responses.  Etc.  I'm sure there will be differences of opinion
on whether given topics are handled, but those differences of opinion
will exist in any system.

--plambert

-- 
I hate bombs, terrorism, fear, plans, future and past injustices, manifestos,
popular sentiment, ignition, timetables, meetings, and poorly adjusted
weasels.  A warm hello to my friends and fans in domestic surveillance!


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  1:31:16 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	for <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
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Message-ID: <3805A15A.FFA7934D@gc.lviv.ua>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:24:42 +0200
From: Vadim Chekan <vadim@gc.lviv.ua>
Organization: Galitsky Kontrakty
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To: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
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Hi

It seems, FreeBSD-3.[12] doesn't support RFC-2317 (Classless
IN-ADDR.ARPA delegation)

From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
=========================================================
bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
=========================================================
From FreeBSD-2.2.8 (this is the right ansver)
=========================================================
bash-2.02$ host 212.109.34.132
Name: extra.gc.lviv.ua
Address: 212.109.34.132
Aliases:

bash-2.02$
=========================================================

Different FreeBSDs resolves the same IP in different ways!

Ok, turn on debug information on 3.2
=========================================================
host -d -v 212.109.34.132
;; res_mkquery(0, 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA., 1, 12)
;; res_send()
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 30587
;; flags: rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;;      132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA, type = PTR, class = IN
;; Querying server (# 1) address = 195.5.56.19
;; got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 30587
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2
;;      132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA, type = PTR, class = IN
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA.  9h25m52s IN CNAME 
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua.
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua.  14h37m49s IN PTR  extra.gc.lviv.ua.
cscd.lviv.ua.           23h31m46s IN NS  ns.cscd.lviv.ua.
cscd.lviv.ua.           23h31m46s IN NS  ns.lviv.gu.net.
ns.cscd.lviv.ua.        23h31m46s IN A  195.5.56.1
ns.lviv.gu.net.         11h38m41s IN A  195.123.17.1
rcode = 0 (Success), ancount=2
The following answer is not authoritative:
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA     33952 IN        CNAME  
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua     52669 IN        PTR     extra.gc.lviv.ua
For authoritative answers, see:
cscd.lviv.ua    84706 IN        NS      ns.cscd.lviv.ua
cscd.lviv.ua    84706 IN        NS      ns.lviv.gu.net
Additional information:
ns.cscd.lviv.ua 84706 IN        A       195.5.56.1
ns.lviv.gu.net  41921 IN        A       195.123.17.1
================================================================

But it has all information necessary to sucessful resolving.
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA.  9h25m52s IN CNAME 
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua.
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua.  14h37m49s IN PTR  extra.gc.lviv.ua.
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ here's
the ansver!

Can anyone comment this situation?

Vadim Chekan.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  1:46:59 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:35:50 +0600
From: Konstantin Chuguev <joy@urc.ac.ru>
Organization: Southern Ural Regional Center of FREEnet
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To: Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>
Cc: Patrick Bihan-Faou <patrick@mindstep.com>,
	David G Andersen <danderse@cs.utah.edu>, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeSSH
References: <199910131428.KAA11701@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <199910131436.IAA02185@faith.cs.utah.edu> <00a801bf158d$421afc20$190aa8c0@local.mindstep.com> <19991013183345.A24019@enst.fr>
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Pierre Beyssac wrote:

> [ -security trimmed from Cc: ]
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:11:43AM -0400, Patrick Bihan-Faou wrote:
> > >    pkg_delete lp
> > >    pkg_delete yp
> > >
> > >    Has anyone done/tried this in the past, and if so, what was the
> > > reaction?  Or what do people think?  I realize this sounds a bit like the
> > > "everything is an rpm or dpkg" methodology from Linux, but as long as the
> > > 'base' packages are handled automatically, then it shouldn't impose the
> > > same inconvenience.
> >
> > I think that it would be the next best thing since the package/ports system
> > (as well as a logical step forward). I would love to see most of the things
> > that installed with a "make world" be also registered in the package
> > database. This would make things like upgrading bind, removing sendmail etc
> > a lot easier.
>
> There are a _lot_ of pitfalls to this kind of approach, as I have
> discovered using Linux Debian. This would probably open a can of
> worms you have no idea of. IMHO, the single biggest mistake in
> Debian is the all-encompassing package system which can make your
> life miserable in no time.
>
> I have found this the hard way, because I have to administer a
> network of Debian PCs. Any attempt to upgrade something, even a
> minor application, rapidly turns into a dependency nigthmare forcing
> you to update half of your system. This is made even worse by
> endless changes in the glibc, itself included in the package system:
> since you can code that dependency in the package system, many
> packages require such and such version of the glibc. In turn,
> frequent incompatible updates of the glibc are made by the developpers
> with the excuse that it's all handled by the package system anyway...
>
> To that, you can add several other flaws (broken stable vs unstable
> policy, no /usr/local, many installation scripts asking for
> interactive input...).
>
> The bottom line is: I'm much happier with FreeBSD's use of
> distributions for the base system than with a Debian-style package
> system.
>

Well, what about having just the extended set of makefile variables in
/etc/make.conf?
We already have NOPROFILE, NOPERL, NOSUIDPERL, NOGAMES, NODOC.
I would prefer to have two sets of such variables: one is something like
BUILD_*, another is INSTALL_*;
both for *_LP, *_YP, *_DEVEL, *_PERL etc.
Of course there should be BUILD_ALL and INSTALL_ALL. And of course, some of the
variables would define other ones implicitly.

Then, you will still need to cvs the entire tree (and thus properly
synchronized), but won't need to build or install all the stuff every time. And
you will have just to choose the necessary subset for each your server, router
and/or workstation.

If it is done by making targets like build_* and install_* in the source tree,
then there is an opportunity to make also the uninstall_* targets for removing
unnecessary parts of the distribution.

>
> That is no to say there can be no good package system, but we have
> to think twice before we implement anything like that, first and
> foremost dependencies on system libraries.
>
> And, IMHO, package handling for general-purpose applications and
> package handling for the core system are a very different problem
> and should be handled in very different ways.
>
> The Solaris way, while far from perfect, is at least usable for
> the most past to handle choice at installation and (not too frequent)
> evolutions of system components.
> --
> Pierre Beyssac          pb@enst.fr
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message

--
        Konstantin V. Chuguev.          System administrator of Southern
        http://www.urc.ac.ru/~joy/      Ural Regional Center of FREEnet,
        mailto:joy@urc.ac.ru            Chelyabinsk, Russia.





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  2: 0:43 1999
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References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]>
 <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com>
 <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:23:21 +0200
To: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 2:14 AM -0400 1999/10/14, Scott Kenney wrote:

> I think Brad's point is that the tools needed to build the Doc tree
> should be included in the doc tree.  At one point Nik was working on
> doing this, I don't know if he still has it on his todo list or not.

	I was thinking that we should either do that, or perhaps make the 
doc tree part of the ports system, so that we can automate the 
dependancies.

	If neither of these is possible or desirable, I'd like for 
someone to explain to me why, so that I can increase my understanding 
of how FreeBSD works, why it works the way it does, etc....

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  2: 1: 5 1999
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References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]>
 <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com>
 <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
 <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:33:51 +0200
To: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>,
	Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 9:50 AM +0200 1999/10/14, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote:

> I doubt it.  Ports are there to provide us with programs.  Doc is
> there to provide us with documents.  Messing with these roles is
> likely to be painful and confusing.

	But since the documents need certain programs if you're going to 
be making any modifications to them, it seems to me that we should 
incorporate into the docs tree the same sort of dependancy checking 
and resolution that we have in the ports system.

	Obviously you don't need these tools if you're just reading the 
files, but if you want to make any modifications, there's no sense in 
asking the person making the modifications to have to manually track 
down all the dependancies on all the various programs in the ports 
system, if we've already got a mechanism that is known to be able 
handle that sort of thing for them automatically.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  2:20:35 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:22:54 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014112254.A81605@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v04205507b42b4402c1d7@[195.238.21.204]>
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On Thu 1999-10-14 (10:33), Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	Obviously you don't need these tools if you're just reading the 
> files, but if you want to make any modifications, there's no sense in 
> asking the person making the modifications to have to manually track 
> down all the dependancies on all the various programs in the ports 
> system, if we've already got a mechanism that is known to be able 
> handle that sort of thing for them automatically.

cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  2:52:18 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:40 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014115440.A90238@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <v04205505b42b42e67f0a@[195.238.21.204]>
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On Thu 1999-10-14 (10:23), Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	I was thinking that we should either do that, or perhaps make the 
> doc tree part of the ports system, so that we can automate the 
> dependancies.
> 
> 	If neither of these is possible or desirable, I'd like for 
> someone to explain to me why, so that I can increase my understanding 
> of how FreeBSD works, why it works the way it does, etc....

Ports generally install programs or other bits of data not maintained
by the FreeBSD Project.  The FreeBSD Documentation Project maintains
the documentation in the doc/ tree.

It is incredibly useful to maintain this distinction, especially
when there are occasions where there are freezes in the ports/ or
other trees, whilst the doc/ tree keeps on moving.  This is also
useful should we ever feel the need to implement a categorised-committer
system where people who are just doc/ committers can't commit to
ports/ committers, like if the doc team imports some people.

Also, ports generally install programs and/or documentation that
are stored elsewhere, whereas the documentation project generates
their own documentation.

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3: 1: 1 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 03:00:56 -0700
From: "David O'Brien" <obrien@FreeBSD.ORG>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ?
Message-ID: <19991014030056.A32453@relay.nuxi.com>
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> Traditionally, the best time to get on a FreeBSD branch has been when
> it hits *.5.  Is this still true with 3.x?

No it is not still true.
In 2.{1,2}.x you had    =>  is now

    2.1   => 2.2.0      =>  3.0
          => 2.2.1      =>  3.1
    2.1.5 => 2.2.2      =>  3.2
    2.1.6 => 2.2.5      =>  3.3
    2.1.7 => 2.2.6
             2.2.7
             2.2.8

Notice we don't do the skipping x.y.{3,4} bullshit anymore.

-- 
-- David    (obrien@NUXI.com)


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3: 2:42 1999
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Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:18:47 -0400
From: "Gary T. Corcoran" <garycor@home.com>
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To: Ben Lovett <blovett@darkstar.sandi.net>
Cc: High Voltage <zapper@idsmail.com>,
	FreeBSD-Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Ben Lovett wrote:

No, you're not wrong, but you can make it even simpler.  While
@home uses DHCP to simplify the setup of Windoze boxes, they
actually assign you a static IP address.  If you setup your Ethernet
card with the IP address (and DNS, etc.) that they tell you on the
sheet they give you, FreeBSD will work just fine with @home.

Gary
 
> you should just be able to hook your system up and use DHCP to get your
> IP.. i don't believe that @Home uses a login program to authenticate
> yourself...
> 
> if i'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on this.
> 
> On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, High Voltage wrote:
> 
> >   Does anyone know where I can find info on how to set FreeBSD 3.3
> > Stable up for a @Home connect?  I'm getting @Home installed this Friday
> > and I'd like to be prepared.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3: 5: 2 1999
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 <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com>
 <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:03:32 +0200
To: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Cc: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 11:22 AM +0200 1999/10/14, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote:

> cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install

	And I'm sure this is documented in the appropriate places.  Sigh.

	Nevermind.  I'm just a half dozen steps behind everyone else, yet 
once again....

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3: 7:11 1999
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To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014120934.A95506@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v04205507b42b4402c1d7@[195.238.21.204]> <19991014112254.A81605@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v0420550db42b5abf196b@[195.238.21.204]>
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On Thu 1999-10-14 (12:03), Brad Knowles wrote:
> > cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install
> 
> 	And I'm sure this is documented in the appropriate places.  Sigh.
> 
> 	Nevermind.  I'm just a half dozen steps behind everyone else, yet 
> once again....

It's in the fdp-primer.  There should be pointers to the fdp-primer
in the handbook.  I'll probably get to it soon.

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3:20:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:20:26 +0200 (CEST)
From: Joost Kooij <kooij@pc47.mpn.cp.philips.com>
To: Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>
Cc: Patrick Bihan-Faou <patrick@mindstep.com>,
	David G Andersen <danderse@cs.utah.edu>, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Debian (was: FreeSSH)
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Hi,

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Pierre Beyssac wrote:

> There are a _lot_ of pitfalls to this kind of approach, as I have
> discovered using Linux Debian. This would probably open a can of
> worms you have no idea of. IMHO, the single biggest mistake in
> Debian is the all-encompassing package system which can make your
> life miserable in no time.

IMHO this highly depends on your point of view.  

If you want to to stay in absolute control (and assume all
responsibilities for the smooth cooperation for the different parts of
your systems), then yes, I agree that the "glue" that Debian adds gets in
your way a lot of the time.

> I have found this the hard way, because I have to administer a
> network of Debian PCs. Any attempt to upgrade something, even a
> minor application, rapidly turns into a dependency nigthmare forcing
> you to update half of your system. This is made even worse by
> endless changes in the glibc, itself included in the package system:
> since you can code that dependency in the package system, many
> packages require such and such version of the glibc. In turn,
> frequent incompatible updates of the glibc are made by the developpers
> with the excuse that it's all handled by the package system anyway...

Please let's get the terms of this discussion clear first.  You are
running "stable" Debian aren't you?  

Debian puts in a lot of effort to make upgrades from one version of
"stable" to the next version of "stable" as smooth as possible.  If you
use tools like apt-get and dselect, this should in practice be painless
and mostly flawless.  As ever, RTFM and YMMV accordingly.

Sometimes people insist on using the dpkg backend in the wrong situations,
like when upgrading a whole slew of packages at once.  Many times this
arises from not understanding or not appreciating tools like dselect and
apt-get.  

Anyway, the bottom line is: keep with "stable" and any signs of dependency
problems usually indicate that you are doing something wrong, not Debian.

> To that, you can add several other flaws (broken stable vs unstable
> policy, no /usr/local, many installation scripts asking for
> interactive input...).

1. Debian is very slow to release new "stable" versions.  This can be
called a "broken release policy", not a "broken stable vs unstable
policy".  That is a big difference.  

2. There is actually a /usr/local.  It is reserved to the local admin.  No
Debian package shall touch what the local admin puts in /usr/local.  From
Debian's point of view, this makes a lot of sense.  To consider this
broken is to consider Debian's goals broken.  There's little sense in
argueing about this IMHO.

3. Installation scripts asking questions is intimately related to the
strive to have packages really configuring themselves to be "ready to run"
upon installation.  In many cases, Debian actually does a fine job here.
The problem is now, that Debian is so big and there are a lot of questions
asked.  There is some work being done, making it possible for packages to
ask the questions before or after installation.  Still, trying to
configure packages means requiring user input at some stage.  Again, this
is a design goals issue.

> The bottom line is: I'm much happier with FreeBSD's use of
> distributions for the base system than with a Debian-style package
> system.

Great.  Use whatever works best for you.  

If you find yourself forced (by the suits of course, because Linux is
hype) to work with Debian, here's some tips to make things easier for you:

- Stay with "stable".  Especially if you're managing a whole network of
  machines and "reproducible" is a key value to your operation.

- Build local versions of packages if stable can't satisfy your needs.
  This is actually remarkably easy with newer versions[1] of the apt-get
  tool:
    apt-get source somepackage
  fetches and unpacks sources for a package.  
  Then make your mods/patches and type[2]: 
    debian/rules binary
  in the top-level source directory.  You now have a localized version of
  the package that you can install manually with dpkg.
  Don't forget to put the package on hold[3], if you want to stop it from
  being upgraded automatically.

  [1] If this doesn't work for you, you can always get the .orig.tar.gz,
  diff.gz and .dsc files by hand and use "dpkg-source -x *.dsc" to achieve
  the same result.
  [2] Actually, it's better to type "fakeroot debian/rules binary".  Tar
  needs to create and archive with files owned by root.  Fakeroot (from
  the fakeroot package) tricks tar into thinking you're root when you're
  not, thus allowing a normal user to build the .deb.
  [3] echo "hold" | dpkg --set-selections "somepackage" or use dselect.

- Use the Debian Bug Tracking system (http://bugs.debian.org)

> That is no to say there can be no good package system, but we have
> to think twice before we implement anything like that, first and
> foremost dependencies on system libraries.

I agree again.  This sort of decision is made at a very deep level and
relates to fundamental design goals. 

> And, IMHO, package handling for general-purpose applications and
> package handling for the core system are a very different problem
> and should be handled in very different ways.

In this respect, the differences between Debian and FreeBSD are quite
revealing:  Debian draws the line between kernel- and user-space and
completely delegates the former, working on integration of the latter.
FreeBSD draws the line at a point in userspace and delegates the
user-space-only part, concentrating on the other part.

Considering the above, the Debian packaging system may not be the optimal
solution to FreeBSD's needs (whatever those may be.)  

Conversely, FreeBSD's great cvs-based system that allows things like
"cvsup" and "make world" are very hard to transpose on Debian as it is.

> The Solaris way, while far from perfect, is at least usable for
> the most past to handle choice at installation and (not too frequent)
> evolutions of system components.

Please pass me too that tube of glue you're sniffing.  Maybe that'll help
me to better reconciliate with default Solaris.

Cheers,


Joost




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3:41:43 1999
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To: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
	Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v04205507b42b4402c1d7@[195.238.21.204]> <19991014112254.A81605@rucus.ru.ac.za>
From: Thomas Gellekum <tg@ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
In-Reply-To: Neil Blakey-Milner's message of "Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:22:54 +0200"
Date: 14 Oct 1999 12:43:45 +0200
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Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org> writes:

> cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install

unroff is missing from the dependencies.

tg


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3:42:23 1999
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From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: Thomas Gellekum <tg@ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014124446.A27929@rucus.ru.ac.za>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v04205507b42b4402c1d7@[195.238.21.204]> <19991014112254.A81605@rucus.ru.ac.za> <kqwvsqnrxa.fsf@zabagek.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
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On Thu 1999-10-14 (12:43), Thomas Gellekum wrote:
> Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org> writes:
> 
> > cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install
> 
> unroff is missing from the dependencies.

unroff isn't used by the Documentation Project.

Neil
-- 
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  3:56:43 1999
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To: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
	Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org> <19991014095038.C55594@rucus.ru.ac.za> <v04205507b42b4402c1d7@[195.238.21.204]> <19991014112254.A81605@rucus.ru.ac.za> <kqwvsqnrxa.fsf@zabagek.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> <19991014124446.A27929@rucus.ru.ac.za>
From: Thomas Gellekum <tg@ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
In-Reply-To: Neil Blakey-Milner's message of "Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:44:46 +0200"
Date: 14 Oct 1999 12:59:40 +0200
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Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org> writes:

> On Thu 1999-10-14 (12:43), Thomas Gellekum wrote:
> > Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org> writes:
> > 
> > > cd /usr/ports/textproc/docproj && make install
> > 
> > unroff is missing from the dependencies.
> 
> unroff isn't used by the Documentation Project.

Oh. Ok, I'll try to read the whole thread next time. ;-)

tg


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  6:27: 0 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:26:55 -0700
From: Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson <insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net>
To: "Gary T. Corcoran" <garycor@home.com>
Cc: Ben Lovett <blovett@darkstar.sandi.net>,
	High Voltage <zapper@idsmail.com>,
	FreeBSD-Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: @Home Connect.
Message-ID: <19991014062655.A18105@lunatic.oneinsane.net>
Reply-To: Ron Rosson <insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910031455210.16791-100000@darkstar.sandi.net> <37F7D647.F8431B5C@home.com>
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X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 3.3-STABLE
X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO 
X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM 
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Actually I disagree with Ben. The reaoning behind it is if they do
decide to implement their DHCP proper you will break things and cause
undo attention. I have set up FreeBSD boxes on San Diego's Road Runner
and @Home for Family and friends. Their is a great web page (but a
little dated) on how to get FreeBSD's DHCP client to work with your
cable modem. http://home.san.rr.com/freebsd/dhcp.html. If you have any
questions drop me a line.

Hope this helps
Ron

On Sun, 03 Oct 1999, Gary T. Corcoran was heard blurting out:

> 
> Ben Lovett wrote:
> 
> No, you're not wrong, but you can make it even simpler.  While
> @home uses DHCP to simplify the setup of Windoze boxes, they
> actually assign you a static IP address.  If you setup your Ethernet
> card with the IP address (and DNS, etc.) that they tell you on the
> sheet they give you, FreeBSD will work just fine with @home.
> 
> Gary
>  
> > you should just be able to hook your system up and use DHCP to get your
> > IP.. i don't believe that @Home uses a login program to authenticate
> > yourself...
> > 
> > if i'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on this.
> > 
> > On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, High Voltage wrote:
> > 
> > >   Does anyone know where I can find info on how to set FreeBSD 3.3
> > > Stable up for a @Home connect?  I'm getting @Home installed this Friday
> > > and I'd like to be prepared.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Rosson              	... and a UNIX user said ...
The InSaNe One                 		   rm -rf *
insane@oneinsane.net      	and all was null and void
-------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stress is waking up screaming and you realize you haven't 
    fallen asleep yet


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  6:30:55 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:30:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.runet.edu>
To: Greg W <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Broken X and window managers
In-Reply-To: <19991014064902.95802.qmail@hotmail.com>
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Hi,

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Greg W wrote:

> Using 3.3 I have tried just about everything to get X and "a" window
> manager to work, not being a FreeBSD expert I have run out of ideas. I
> cannot get Gnome to work at all, nor Afterstep with Gnome , I managed
> finally after about 3 days to get KDE running, but none of the apps
> etc will work (I can get a terminal, and the menu's all operate, whoo
> hoo :-) ) ,

Have you tried NOT running Gnome?  Try just running a windown manager (say
_just_ AfterStep, no KDE or Gnome junk) and see if that works.  I was
going to play w/ Gnome for a Daemon News article and I cannot get the
thing working at all using the packages - the processes run, but they
never actually show up (for instance, starting "panel" starts the process,
but it never displays) and there are no error messages at all.  I went
back to using Window Maker.

Since I was planning to anyway, I tried using KDE - it built and displayed
just fine (I've tried about 10 of the KDE apps under Window Maker and all 
work fine - I couldn't get _any_ of the Gnome apps to display).

X is not broken on FreeBSD unless you've misconfigured it and I'm
convinced my Gnome problems are something funky here as I've built other
Gnome apps (like Electric Eyes) previously and they worked.  I'm doing
this on my hand-me-down machine though which is a P5-100 and low on
memory and I'm convinced I just have something screwed up as there are
others using Gnome wo/ problems.

If you want help, we'll need to know a LOT more information, including
symptoms, error messages, how you installed the software, the versions of
software you installed, blah blah blah. 

Brett
*****************************************************
Dr. Brett Taylor         brett@peloton.runet.edu    *
Dept of Chem and Physics			    *
Curie 39A	(540) 831-6147                      *
Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics		    *
Walker 234	(540) 831-5410			    *
*****************************************************



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  6:51: 2 1999
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From: Tim Priebe <tim@iafrica.com.na>
Reply-To: tim@iafrica.com.na
To: "Paul M . Lambert" <plambert@plambert.net>, stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:23:46 +0200
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Paul M . Lambert wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> 
> > Brad Knowles wrote:
> > > 
> > >         IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd
> > > mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an
> > > automated response.

I could be mistaken, but requiring someone to subscribe to a list in order to
post to it is over kill, and will not _prevent_ questions from being asked in
the wrong forum.

[...]

> Perhaps there is a better idea.
> 
> There are a number of people on the lists who are technically competent
> and have a reasonable understanding of the way FreeBSD works.  They can
> easily answer most of the newbies' questions and point them (gently
> at first, and later with the Thunderous LART of Righteousness) to the
> correct places to get their answers.  Many of these people are currently
> doing this.

[...]

> Why?  So that the people who don't care to read questions that have
> been asked and answered before can ignore that entire thread.  Heck,
> with some creativity, most of the "gurus" could delete threads that
> have been handled.  So they wouldn't have to deal with them.
> 
> The "gurus" that don't have threaded email readers could still fake
> it...  It'd be easy enough to make procmail and perl go back and add
> the header and/or subject-tag to the original message if a reply comes
> through with the header and/or subject-tag.
> 
> Now, this is just an idea I'm having late at night.  There are millions
> of reasons why it can't work.  I just can't come up with them at the moment.
> 
> I'm sure someone will tell me.  ;-)

One good reason for _this_ list, is that it is listed as "required", if you want
to track stable. It is not required that you be a "guru" to do that. I do not
want to have to wade through the off topic questions and replies on a required
list. A possible solution could be to have a list of unmoderated contributers,
and to have messages from anyone else sent to a system, that a group of
moderators could check, and pass or have a standard response sent pointing them
in the right direction to get help.

Tim.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  7:47:43 1999
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Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
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Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> At 1:17 PM -0700 1999/10/12, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> 
> > Documentation building has ample precedent for external dependencies - the
> > entire doc/ tree needs several ports installed to build. I'm sure there
> > are other examples in the tree.
> 
>         If I may make a suggestion then?  If doc/ needs a particular
> tool, then that tool should be moved from the ports subsystem to the
> main source tree.

	There are historical reasons why things are the way they are. You might
be well served in the future to check the mailing list archives before
offering "obvious" suggestions, since we generally (although not always)
have good reasons for doing what we do. 

-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  8:16:18 1999
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From: Tom <tom@uniserve.com>
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To: Vadim Chekan <vadim@gc.lviv.ua>
Cc: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
In-Reply-To: <3805A15A.FFA7934D@gc.lviv.ua>
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:

> Hi
> 
> It seems, FreeBSD-3.[12] doesn't support RFC-2317 (Classless
> IN-ADDR.ARPA delegation)

  RFC 2137 is supported by definition.  RFC 2137 does not require any
special resolver behaviour.

> From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
> =========================================================
> bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
> 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
> 132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua

  IN-ADDR DNS for that block is definitely screwed up, because I can't
even get an answer from here.

  Also, "host" in 3.2 can find CNAMEs, so it does not follow the CNAME.  I
think it does an ANY search.

> =========================================================
> From FreeBSD-2.2.8 (this is the right ansver)
> =========================================================
> bash-2.02$ host 212.109.34.132
> Name: extra.gc.lviv.ua
> Address: 212.109.34.132
> Aliases:

  In this case, the "CNAME" has been followed.  Probably because "host"
did a PTR search instead of any ANY search.

  Whether "host" follows the CNAME or not is irrelevant.  gethostbyname()
should still do the right thing.


Tom




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  8:18:46 1999
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: eirvine@tpgi.com.au
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Broken X and window managers
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:18:38 GMT
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It is the one they ship Internationally, version 3.3, sorry not sure if 
stable or release, although I would deem those words as mostly the 
same.......

I did a novice install, the machine is nothing fantastic, 100mhz Pentium, 
16MB ram, 2 HDD IDE , boot drive 540 mb which has / /boot etc , second disk 
is 850MB /usr , all seemed to go ok after 3 attempts (this was my first use 
of FreeBSD or a proper UNIX derivative. Install went along ok, could not 
fire up X at end, so over next few days, when time permitted, I would have a 
shot at it, at first the card I had was a SIS, there a bit sus under most 
OS's so I changed it for a Matrox 220 (I have access to a few cards here) , 
setup X by using command prompt an XF86Setup , all goes ok setting up, and 
can save a config file, OK , great me thinks.

I used the command startx to fire it up, first had an error  "no 
Gnome-session" , so just for the hell of it, I tried xinit then just X in 
case there was some other (well I dont know ) thing.

Right about now I decided some binaries are missing. Over my next 10 or so 
visits to /stand/sysinstall  and trying everything from installing all 
binaries, setting any combination of window managers etc , I finally got a 
glimpse of victory, but it soured quickly.

On the last attempt I did in fact choose KDE as the window manager, and it 
has fired up , I have all sorts of nice icons I can click on, but WhatTFk ?? 
I get no response, no glimpse of any of the applications working etc, and 
believe me , the binaries are installed, I beggining to hate the menu driven 
sysinstall (over visitation limits I thinks)

So...Its either the binaries cant be seen cause there on the /usr on a 
different disk, or hell, I dunno, I fresh out of patience for such things at 
the moment (thats a failure on my part), but I can log off ok, and do things 
like open the menu's......oh yeah and xterms pop up ok, so am hoping its 
trivial....

What should I do, is 2 disks ok, I imagine so, how should I get around this 
?  I have also recompiled my kernel, so I hope I can put it somewhere for 
later use if I have to trash the disk

Hell I will be happy if fwm95 works....X & xterms will help me learn UNIX 
much quicker

Thanks for any help.

Greg


>From: eirvine <eirvine@tpgi.com.au>
>Hi Greg,
>
>Well, I've recently installed FreeBSD 3.3 box from the Walnut
>Creek CD-Rom http://www.cdrom.com and have had no problems at
>all with X.
>
>I haven't touched Gnome, though. I'm a KDE user.
>
>We're sorry you're having so much trouble. What version of the
>Cheapbytes CD are you using?
>
>Eddie
>
>Greg W wrote:
> >
> > Hope this is the right place to post this
> >
> > Using 3.3 I have tried just about everything to get X and "a" window 
>manager
> > to work, not being a FreeBSD expert I have run out of ideas. I cannot 
>get
> > Gnome to work at all, nor Afterstep with Gnome , I managed finally after
> > about 3 days to get KDE running, but none of the apps etc will work (I 
>can
> > get a terminal, and the menu's all operate, whoo hoo :-) ) , I have 
>added
> > packages like a madman, actually filling the disk at one stage, I have 
>read
> > the FAQ's etc. Its a cheapbytes CD if that helps, is there some major 
>step I
> > have missed, the CD broken, or is X crumby on FreeBSD ?
> > Signed, Never had so much X ing trouble before
>
>Cute :-)
>
> > Greg
> >

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  8:54:15 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:47:39 +0200
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To: Tom <tom@uniserve.com>
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Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
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Tom wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:
> > From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
> > =========================================================
> > bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
> > 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
> > 132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
> 
>   IN-ADDR DNS for that block is definitely screwed up, because I can't
> even get an answer from here.

What do you mean? "host 212.109.34.132" doesn't do any output for you?

>   Also, "host" in 3.2 can find CNAMEs, so it does not follow the CNAME.  I
> think it does an ANY search.
>   In this case, the "CNAME" has been followed.  Probably because "host"
> did a PTR search instead of any ANY search.
> 
>   Whether "host" follows the CNAME or not is irrelevant.  gethostbyname()
> should still do the right thing.

So this is just strange behavior of 'host'?
If I understund right this is rather bind issue, not FreeBSD so that
I'll move to more appropriate maillist :)

Vadim Chekan.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  9: 9:23 1999
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To: Vadim Chekan <vadim@gc.lviv.ua>
Cc: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
In-Reply-To: <3806092B.E419F8D8@gc.lviv.ua>
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:

> Tom wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:
> > > From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
> > > =========================================================
> > > bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
> > > 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
> > > 132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
> > 
> >   IN-ADDR DNS for that block is definitely screwed up, because I can't
> > even get an answer from here.
> 
> What do you mean? "host 212.109.34.132" doesn't do any output for you?

  "Host not found" after a long timeout.  Your DNS delegation is probably
broken somewhere.

> >   Also, "host" in 3.2 can find CNAMEs, so it does not follow the CNAME.  I
> > think it does an ANY search.
> >   In this case, the "CNAME" has been followed.  Probably because "host"
> > did a PTR search instead of any ANY search.
> > 
> >   Whether "host" follows the CNAME or not is irrelevant.  gethostbyname()
> > should still do the right thing.
> 
> So this is just strange behavior of 'host'?
> If I understund right this is rather bind issue, not FreeBSD so that
> I'll move to more appropriate maillist :)

  Probably not.  Isn't "host" a FreeBSD thing?

> Vadim Chekan.



Tom



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  9:25:20 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:20:06 -0700
From: Michael Oski <onemo@jps.net>
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To: Greg W <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
Cc: eirvine@tpgi.com.au, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Broken X and window managers
References: <19991014151839.22566.qmail@hotmail.com>
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OK, here's a few things to try, in order to break down where the failure is.

Since X appears to be "basically" functional (you can open xterm), let's try to
get completely rid of the GNOME/KDE stuff and verify X really IS ok. Go into
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm and vi Xsetup_0. It should have the following 3 lines:

#!/bin/sh
# $XConsortium: Xsetup_0,v 1.3 93/09/28 14:30:31 gildea Exp $
xconsole -geometry 480x130-0-0 -daemon -notify -verbose -fn fixed -exitOnFail

Comment out any other lines (not sure if GNOME/KDE put stuff in here). Next, go
into /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xsm and vi system.xsm. It should have the following:

! $XConsortium: system.xsm,v 1.5 94/12/27 17:57:25 mor Exp $
twm
smproxy
xterm

Again, comment out any additional entries. Finally, go to your home directory
and rename any .Xsession or .Xstartup files (I usually append a -orig) and
start xdm in non-deamon mode with the following:

xdm -nodeamon

This should start X and produce a login screen. Once logged in, the default
XFree86 window manager twm will start and launch several xterms. In one of
them, try some other x-based -- but not GNOME/KDE-based apps. If you can launch
xclock, xman, xlsfonts, netscape, etc. Then X is ok. Exiting the xterm titled
Login will shutdown that session. You can then [Ctrl][Alt][F1] and [Ctrl][c]
the xdm command.

Let me (us) know how this goes, then I can try to help with the next step --
what's wrong with GNOME/KDE... :-)

Michael.



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14  9:36:23 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:30:30 -0500
To: Vadim Chekan <vadim@gc.lviv.ua>
From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" <jeff-ml@mountin.net>
Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
Cc: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 06:47 PM 10/14/99 +0200, Vadim Chekan wrote:
>Tom wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:
>> > From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
>> > =========================================================
>> > bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
>> > 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
>> > 132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
>> 
>>   IN-ADDR DNS for that block is definitely screwed up, because I can't
>> even get an answer from here.
>
>What do you mean? "host 212.109.34.132" doesn't do any output for you?

"Host not found" or "Operation timed out" depending on what tool is used.


>>   Also, "host" in 3.2 can find CNAMEs, so it does not follow the CNAME.  I
>> think it does an ANY search.
>>   In this case, the "CNAME" has been followed.  Probably because "host"
>> did a PTR search instead of any ANY search.
>> 
>>   Whether "host" follows the CNAME or not is irrelevant.  gethostbyname()
>> should still do the right thing.

Yep.

>So this is just strange behavior of 'host'?
>If I understund right this is rather bind issue, not FreeBSD so that
>I'll move to more appropriate maillist :)

Repeatable with dig and nslookup as well.  Using 'host' should work, so
most likely something is wrong the configuration.  Using 'dig' didn't turn
up any authoratative servers, which is a big hint.

FYI, something changed since a response is now given.  Still doesn't look
right.  Why it gives a "nickname for" rather than a "domain name pointer"
might be a clue.

ALWAYS do some checking externally from both your network and your upstream
provider(s).


Jeff Mountin - jeff@mountin.net
Systems/Network Administrator
FreeBSD - the power to serve
'86 Yamaha MaxiumX (not FBSD powered)



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10: 2: 9 1999
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: onemo@jps.net
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Broken X and window managers
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:01:44 GMT
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>From: Michael Oski <onemo@jps.net>

>OK, here's a few things to try, in order to break down where the failure 
>is.
>
>Since X appears to be "basically" functional (you can open xterm), let's 
>try to
>get completely rid of the GNOME/KDE stuff and verify X really IS ok. Go 
>into
>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm and vi Xsetup_0. It should have the following 3 
>lines:
>
>#!/bin/sh
># $XConsortium: Xsetup_0,v 1.3 93/09/28 14:30:31 gildea Exp $
>xconsole -geometry 480x130-0-0 -daemon -notify -verbose -fn fixed 
>-exitOnFail

Yes, exactly




>Comment out any other lines (not sure if GNOME/KDE put stuff in here). 
>Next, go
>into /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xsm and vi system.xsm. It should have the 
>following:
>
>! $XConsortium: system.xsm,v 1.5 94/12/27 17:57:25 mor Exp $
>twm
>smproxy
>xterm
>


Again yes exactly



>Again, comment out any additional entries. Finally, go to your home 
>directory
>and rename any .Xsession or .Xstartup files (I usually append a -orig) and
>start xdm in non-deamon mode with the following:
>
>xdm -nodeamon



Ok fires up here


>
>This should start X and produce a login screen. Once logged in, the default
>XFree86 window manager twm will start and launch several xterms.


I get session menu, and can only choose default/failsafe or cancel, of 
course these dont give an xterm, I hit failsafe and i see a small white box 
with Console log for... and the background, thats it


In one of
>them, try some other x-based -- but not GNOME/KDE-based apps. If you can 
>launch
>xclock, xman, xlsfonts, netscape, etc. Then X is ok. Exiting the xterm 
>titled
>Login will shutdown that session. You can then [Ctrl][Alt][F1] and 
>[Ctrl][c]
>the xdm command.

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10: 9: 7 1999
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From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
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To: Jamie Norwood <mistwolf@mushhaven.net>
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Jamie Norwood wrote:

> IIRC, Majordomo is capable of having 'post-ok' addresses, where you can
> do a sort of half-subscription where you can post from an address, but
> not get list mail there.

	It is cabable of that, but managing this on the scale we're
talking about with the FreeBSD lists is just not an easy task. This idea
has been proposed often, and always rejected by the very people you claim
to want to help. 

	As much as I applaud any efforts to increase the level of user
education, I have to say that I think an automated response just will not
do. The proper way to handle this is with a two-pronged approach. First,
develop a good document that teaches people how to ASK questions (I think
Greg has done a very good job with his) and then when inappropriate
questions are sent to the list refer the user to it. Second, develop good
documentation on how to ANSWER questions, and do the same thing. One of
the keys to this approach is that your efforts must be conducted primarily
in PRIVATE e-mail, especially when you are dealing with a question
answerer. No one likes being backed into a corner in public, and any
efforts to help in this fashion will not be appreciated. 

Good luck,

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:12:15 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:05:43 +0200
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Organization: Galitsky Kontrakty
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To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" <jeff-ml@mountin.net>
Cc: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
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"Jeffrey J. Mountin" wrote:
> 
> At 06:47 PM 10/14/99 +0200, Vadim Chekan wrote:
> >Tom wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Vadim Chekan wrote:
> >> > From FreeBSD-3.2 (I checked this on 4 machines)
> >> > =========================================================
> >> > bash-2.03$ host 212.109.34.132
> >> > 132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
> >> > 132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
> >>
> >>   IN-ADDR DNS for that block is definitely screwed up, because I can't
> >> even get an answer from here.
> >
> >What do you mean? "host 212.109.34.132" doesn't do any output for you?
> 
> "Host not found" or "Operation timed out" depending on what tool is used.

?!!
I 've checked just now from
http://www.debug.net/connectivity/?212.109.34.132
[cut]
20  extra.gc.lviv.ua (212.109.34.132)  298.678 ms  287.699 ms  289.518
ms

It resolved this IP right!

Woops!
My own traseroute works fine! this means that resolver library is Ok.
======
> traceroute 212.109.34.132
traceroute to 212.109.34.132 (212.109.34.132), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
[cut]
 3  extra (212.109.34.132)  6.965 ms  7.000 ms  6.820 ms
======
> 
> >>   Also, "host" in 3.2 can find CNAMEs, so it does not follow the CNAME.  I
> >> think it does an ANY search.
> >>   In this case, the "CNAME" has been followed.  Probably because "host"
> >> did a PTR search instead of any ANY search.
> >>
> >>   Whether "host" follows the CNAME or not is irrelevant.  gethostbyname()
> >> should still do the right thing.
> 
> Yep.
> 
> >So this is just strange behavior of 'host'?
> >If I understund right this is rather bind issue, not FreeBSD so that
> >I'll move to more appropriate maillist :)
> 
> Repeatable with dig and nslookup as well.  Using 'host' should work, so
> most likely something is wrong the configuration.  Using 'dig' didn't turn
> up any authoratative servers, which is a big hint.
> 
> FYI, something changed since a response is now given.  Still doesn't look
> right.  Why it gives a "nickname for" rather than a "domain name pointer"
> might be a clue.



> host -t ptr 212.109.34.132
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA is a nickname for
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua

But as shows 'host -v -d -t ptr', host gets both ansvers
132.34.109.212.IN-ADDR.ARPA     2402 IN CNAME  
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua
132.34.109.212.cscd.lviv.ua     21119 IN        PTR     extra.gc.lviv.ua

but it chouse to show first one, not type of which I specifed (-t ptr).
is this a 'host' bug?

Vadim Chekan.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:26:13 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:23:47 +0200
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>, Jamie Norwood <mistwolf@mushhaven.net>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>,
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At 10:08 AM -0700 1999/10/14, Doug wrote:

> 	It is cabable of that, but managing this on the scale we're
> talking about with the FreeBSD lists is just not an easy task. This idea
> has been proposed often, and always rejected by the very people you claim
> to want to help.

	I can't speak for whether or not it is practical in the context 
of the FreeBSD lists (I'm not the postmaster, after all), but I can 
speak within my experience. [0]

> 	As much as I applaud any efforts to increase the level of user
> education, I have to say that I think an automated response just will not
> do.

	IMO, if it's not an automated response, the rules won't be 
implemented with any regularity, and the inappropriate questioners 
will not learn.

	You've got to set things up so that it is impossible for humans 
to screw up this task, because they're not real good at following 
precise recipes for exactly how to act, and reliably applying those 
rules each and every time.  However, computers *are* real good at 
precisely these sorts of things.


	If you don't automate it, it won't happen.




[0]  I've been running mailing lists for a number of years, mostly 
small ones with Majordomo, but also some larger ones with 
industrial-strength tools such as Listserv.

-- 
   These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
  ____________________________________________________________________
|o| Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be>            Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o|
|o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin      Rue Col. Bourg, 124   |o|
|o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49         B-1140 Brussels       |o|
|o| http://www.skynet.be                     Belgium               |o|
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
  Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
   Unix is very user-friendly.  It's just picky who its friends are.


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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>
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Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> Current gossip and rumor may be outdated Real Soon Now.  Watch this
> space for updated rumors over the next few months.

	Not to co-opt the thread, but will we have a new -current snapshot
CD before the end of the year? Now that I have a subscription I'm eager
for new toys. :)

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:30:18 1999
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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > Frankly, a year and a half is way too much wait for a system to
> > become stable. Hopefully, the shorter development cycle of 4.0 will
> > result in a 4.x line getting stabilized much faster.
> 
> I agree.  I also suspect that 4.0 will branch in a much more timely
> fashion than 3.0 did.  We learned some hard lessons with 3.0's
> schedule.

	This is good news on both fronts. The sheer volume of ultra-cool
stuff going into -current lately that just can't be backported would
definitely lead in this direction, so I'm glad to hear that's where the CW
is as well.

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:31:30 1999
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: sean@stat.Duke.EDU
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: [MY]  Broken X and window managers
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:31:18 GMT
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Sorry for change in thread slightly, dont want other to think I am claiming 
FreeBSD or a package as Broken per se


>From: "Sean O'Connell" <sean@stat.Duke.EDU>

>Greg-
>
>What about /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm-errors?
>
>Anything exciting in there?

PS I know its naughty, but am doing this as root, assuming X works for root 
same as users

Lets have a looksee.....


using 75dpi fonts, correct matrox card....

right at the end I have

X Connection to :0.0 broken (ra ra explicit)
IO error in Xopendisplay
Display :0 cannot be opened


Sorry if above is not in full, but the box is not on the wire yet, I had to 
kill the server to exit the last exercis, or I just went round in 
circles......any further clues?




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:58:31 1999
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OK, looks simple... In your /etc/hosts file, make sure you have the 127.0.0.1
localhost line with your correct domain name in the fully qualified parameter.
Mine looks like this:

# $Id: hosts,v 1.9 1998/04/16 14:37:19 joerg Exp $
#
127.0.0.1               localhost.one-mo.com            localhost
192.168.1.1          serv01.one-mo.com                 serv01

Then in your .cshrc or .profile or .whatever-shell-you-use-startup-stuff file
set the environment variable DISPLAY to localhost:0.0 and export it.

That should take care of things.

Good luck!


Greg W wrote:

> Sorry for change in thread slightly, dont want other to think I am claiming
> FreeBSD or a package as Broken per se
>
> >From: "Sean O'Connell" <sean@stat.Duke.EDU>
>
> >Greg-
> >
> >What about /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm-errors?
> >
> >Anything exciting in there?
>
> PS I know its naughty, but am doing this as root, assuming X works for root
> same as users
>
> Lets have a looksee.....
>
> using 75dpi fonts, correct matrox card....
>
> right at the end I have
>
> X Connection to :0.0 broken (ra ra explicit)
> IO error in Xopendisplay
> Display :0 cannot be opened
>
> Sorry if above is not in full, but the box is not on the wire yet, I had to
> kill the server to exit the last exercis, or I just went round in
> circles......any further clues?
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 10:59:55 1999
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Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>,
	Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3.5-stable ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:28:13 PDT."
             <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910141022020.8744-100000@dt050n71.san.rr.com> 
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:59:16 -0700
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> 	Not to co-opt the thread, but will we have a new -current snapshot
> CD before the end of the year?

Yes.

- Jordan


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 11: 2:15 1999
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From: Tom <tom@uniserve.com>
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To: Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@access1.net>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Resolver in FreeBSD-3.[12] is broken?
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Courtney Thomas wrote:

> Greetings !
> 
> I just installed 3.3 and tried ........
> 	host 212.109.34.132 
> on an old 2.2.5 system and got the correct response
> however,
> I tried the same on the new 3.3 and got......
> 	host not found
> 
> What do I need to do to properly set up the resolver ?

  The DNS servers for that in-addr.arpa zone are screwed.  I can't get any
response.

  I use classless in-addr.arpa all the time.  While "host" may not fully
resolve an IP to a name (PTR) for classless in-addr.arpa that doesn't
mean the resolver is broken!  "host" does not even use gethostbyaddr().

  So, there is NOTHING wrong with the resolver.  Just some broken DNS
servers, and a misunderstanding on what "host" actually does.

> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Courtney
> 
> 


Tom



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 11:14:11 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
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To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: Jamie Norwood <mistwolf@mushhaven.net>,
	"Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>,
	"Paul M. Lambert" <plambert@magiclemurs.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 10:08 AM -0700 1999/10/14, Doug wrote:
> 
> > 	It is cabable of that, but managing this on the scale we're
> > talking about with the FreeBSD lists is just not an easy task. This idea
> > has been proposed often, and always rejected by the very people you claim
> > to want to help.
> 
> 	I can't speak for whether or not it is practical in the context 
> of the FreeBSD lists (I'm not the postmaster, after all), but I can 
> speak within my experience. [0]

	Let me rephrase. It won't work. Even if it would work, it won't
happen because the developers don't want it. End of story. 

> > 	As much as I applaud any efforts to increase the level of user
> > education, I have to say that I think an automated response just will not
> > do.
> 
> 	IMO, if it's not an automated response, the rules won't be 
> implemented with any regularity, and the inappropriate questioners 
> will not learn.
> 
> 	You've got to set things up so that it is impossible for humans 
> to screw up this task

	That's not possible. Since it isn't possible, you have to start
looking at next best alternatives. 

> because they're not real good at following 
> precise recipes for exactly how to act, and reliably applying those 
> rules each and every time.  However, computers *are* real good at 
> precisely these sorts of things.

	Actually you've proven my point here. It's precisely because human
behavior is so unpredictable that "automated teaching solution" is an
oxymoron. I'll stop here because experience tells me that no further input
from me on this topic will improve the situation, however if you want to
look at realistic solutions to the problems at hand I think -doc is
probably the best list to continue this discussion on.

Good luck,

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 12: 8: 8 1999
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: onemo@jps.net
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:59:47 GMT
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>From: Michael Oski <onemo@jps.net>
>OK, looks simple... In your /etc/hosts file, make sure you have the 
>127.0.0.1
>localhost line with your correct domain name in the fully qualified 
>parameter.
>Mine looks like this:
>
># $Id: hosts,v 1.9 1998/04/16 14:37:19 joerg Exp $
>#
>127.0.0.1               localhost.one-mo.com            localhost
>192.168.1.1          serv01.one-mo.com                 serv01
>
>Then in your .cshrc or .profile or .whatever-shell-you-use-startup-stuff 
>file
>set the environment variable DISPLAY to localhost:0.0 and export it.
>
>That should take care of things.
>
>Good luck!
>

I suspect much more sinister error here, like a corrupted binary or 
something, I had localhost, but did not have in profile etc

I really thank you guys for tying to help, but its got the better of me, yep 
I have started a fresh install, I choose kernel + X + all x libs/bin

Will see what happens, some may say I dont have the patience to become an 
Xpert, but this was going beyond the joke for me

Will report my findings  :-)  who knows, I may be asking for a new CD  !

I dont know how many RH users are reading this, but with 3.3 is X usually as 
staright forward as RH (its knocked as being difficult to set x up on by 
some, however its always been relatively painless irrespective of wm or 
desktop)


C ya !

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 13:15:41 1999
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To: Greg W <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
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Greg W wrote:

> I suspect much more sinister error here, like a corrupted binary or
> something, I had localhost, but did not have in profile etc
>
> I really thank you guys for tying to help, but its got the better of me, yep
> I have started a fresh install, I choose kernel + X + all x libs/bin
>
> Will see what happens, some may say I dont have the patience to become an
> Xpert, but this was going beyond the joke for me
>
> Will report my findings  :-)  who knows, I may be asking for a new CD  !
>
> I dont know how many RH users are reading this, but with 3.3 is X usually as
> staright forward as RH (its knocked as being difficult to set x up on by
> some, however its always been relatively painless irrespective of wm or
> desktop)
>
> C ya !

Hehe, actually, you ARE on the road to becoming an expert. Remember, we humans
learn best through failure!

As for RH and the ease of installation, I've used FreeBSD and various Linux
distributions and they're all pretty much the same. I've actually had more
difficulty with the Linux stuff than the BSD personally, but then again I got
used to BSD first.

Hang in there.... You'll get it right, then you can help out the next person
with troubles!

Have fun!?!



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 14:15:10 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47480151C0
	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
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	(envelope-from chad)
From: "Chad R. Larson" <chad@DCFinc.com>
Message-Id: <199910142115.OAA16962@freeway.dcfinc.com>
Subject: Re: [MY]  Broken X and window managers
In-Reply-To: <380618A0.E9104DEB@jps.net> from Michael Oski at "Oct 14, 99 10:53:36 am"
To: onemo@jps.net (Michael Oski)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:15:00 -0700 (MST)
Cc: redhat_list@hotmail.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com
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As I recall, Michael Oski wrote:
> 
> Then in your .cshrc or .profile or .whatever-shell-you-use-startup-stuff file
> set the environment variable DISPLAY to localhost:0.0 and export it.

Why wouldn't he set DISPLAY to "unix:0"?  That would stay in the
UNIX domain, and not force all the traffic through the TCP stack.
Less overhead, better performance.

	-crl
--
Chad R. Larson (CRL15)   602-953-1392   Brother, can you paradigm?
chad@dcfinc.com         chad@larsons.org          larson1@home.net   
DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 14:51:49 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:50:39 -0500
To: FreeBSD Stable Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
From: Chris Byrnes <chris@jeah.net>
Subject: Apache SSL.
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=3D=3D=3D>  Building for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37
=3D=3D=3D> src
=3D=3D=3D> src/os/unix
cc -c  -I../../os/unix -I../../include -I/usr/local/include
-DHARD_SERVER_LIMIT=3D512  -DDOCUMENT_LOCATION=3D\"/usr/local/www/data/\"
-DDEFAULT_PATH=3D\"/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin\" -funsigned-char
-DTARGET=3D\"httpsd\" -DUSE_EXPAT -I../../lib/expat-lite -DAPACHE_SSL -O
-pipe -I/usr/local/include/openssl `../../apaci` os.c
In file included from ../../include/ap_config.h:1105,
                 from os.c:6:
/usr/local/include/regex.h:115: parse error before `re_void'
/usr/local/include/regex.h:115: warning: data definition has no type or
storage class
/usr/local/include/regex.h:281: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
/usr/local/include/regex.h:290: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
/usr/local/include/regex.h:293: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
[root@shell] [/usr/ports/www/apache13-ssl]#

	*Confused*

Chris Byrnes, President & CEO
Jeah Communications=AE - www.jeah.net


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 15:55: 8 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:49:35 -0700
From: Michael Oski <onemo@jps.net>
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To: chad@DCFinc.com
Cc: redhat_list@hotmail.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [MY]  Broken X and window managers
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Chad,

Good point!  <grin>

Guess I'm to used to working in a networked environment with multiple hosts...



"Chad R. Larson" wrote:

> As I recall, Michael Oski wrote:
> >
> > Then in your .cshrc or .profile or .whatever-shell-you-use-startup-stuff file
> > set the environment variable DISPLAY to localhost:0.0 and export it.
>
> Why wouldn't he set DISPLAY to "unix:0"?  That would stay in the
> UNIX domain, and not force all the traffic through the TCP stack.
> Less overhead, better performance.
>
>         -crl
> --
> Chad R. Larson (CRL15)   602-953-1392   Brother, can you paradigm?
> chad@dcfinc.com         chad@larsons.org          larson1@home.net
> DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 16: 4:31 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66])
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	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:04:24 -0700 (PDT)
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	(envelope-from nik)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:51:37 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@freebsd.org>
To: Scott Kenney <saken+freebsd-stable@hotel.rmta.org>
Cc: Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>,
	Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make world failing because of missing unroff
Message-ID: <19991014225137.A37668@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>
References: <v04205507b42a1e181e61@[195.238.21.204]> <12980.939814766@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19991014021408.C87437@hotel.rmta.org>
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Neil's pretty much covered everything, but just in case;

On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 02:14:08AM -0400, Scott Kenney wrote:
> I think Brad's point is that the tools needed to build the Doc tree
> should be included in the doc tree.  At one point Nik was working on
> doing this, I don't know if he still has it on his todo list or not.

That's news to me.  The doc/ tree contains the source code for the 
documentation, and related files to assist in the conversion of the docs
from one format to another.  That's all.

Any mechanism to automatically build and install programs belongs 
(rightfully) in the ports collection.  The two are linked with the
textproc/docproj port, which tries (and has, in the past, sometimes failed)
to depend on all the packages that are required to build the documentation
outside of the base system.

If you examine src/release/Makefile you'll find that one of the things it
does is rebuild the required doc/ ports in the chroot tree to make sure
that everything is available.

There's another reason for keeping program source code out of the doc/
tree -- as it stands, the doc/ tree is reasonably portable between 
different Unix systems (I've used it to build the documentation on *BSD
and Solaris systems, doubtless you can do it on others as well).  This
is (IMHO) an asset -- it lets other groups easily build on our framework.
Adding ports in to this structure would needlessly complicate things.

N


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 16:44:27 1999
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From: vladimir-bsd-stable@math.uic.edu
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: tip
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Dear -STABLE users,

I tried to use tip today to connect to a dialup line on our
server, and discovered that there is no way to tell tip 
to pause dialing for some period of time.   Pause is 
specified by ',' in the AT command set, but tip terminates
dialing when a comma is encountered.   I confirmed that
by looking at tip's source.   So is there any way to tell
tip to pause dialing?  

        Vladimir
        vladimir@math.uic.edu

PS Also from the man page phones(5):
.....the form: <system-name>[ \t]*<phone-number>.  The system name is one of
     those defined in the remote(5) file and the phone number is constructed
     from any sequence of characters terminated only by ``,'' or the end of
     the line.  



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 18:16:55 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <19991015111625.C19096@caamora.com.au>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:16:25 +1000
From: jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au>
To: mi@aldan.algebra.com
Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies
References: <19991014141006.A17357@caamora.com.au> <199910140446.AAA80870@misha.cisco.com>
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On Thu, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:46:59AM -0400, Mikhail Teterin wrote:
> jonathan michaels once wrote:
> 
> > > Also,  some frequently  spammed news-groups  and mailing  lists have

mikhail,

please see reply in personal email.

regards

jonathan

-- 
===============================================================================
Jonathan Michaels
PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia
===========================================================<jon@caamora.com.au>



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 18:53:20 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from mdavis@cts.com)
From: "Morgan Davis" <mdavis@cts.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: Fix for broken "make installworld"
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:52:35 -0700
Message-ID: <NABBLJGKKPMOKACIENPPGEMBCIAA.mdavis@cts.com>
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I couple days ago I posted a problem using "make installworld" on a machine
that was NFS mounting /usr/src and /usr/obj from a freshly made 3.3-STABLE
machine.  The target server getting updated was running 3.2-stable (circa
July).  It would never get too far in the process, complaining (and rightly
so) about missing files in /usr/share/man that it was trying to create
hardlinks for as man page aliases.  Specifically, it was in the "pam_open"
and "pam_close" stuff.

The workaround was to mount the master server's /usr/share to /mnt and hand
copy man (and other directories) over to the target machine's /usr/share.
Then the "make installworld" took off and completed without any problems.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem might be that the "ln" logic is
backwards, like ln's args were reversed.  This apparently worked fine with a
"make world" on the master server, but not "make installworld" on the target
server (if that's significant).

--Morgan



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 18:59: 0 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <38068A5A.BBC152D@ripco.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:58:50 -0500
From: Jeremy McMillan <aphor@ripco.com>
Reply-To: aphor@ripco.com
Organization: Loose..
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To: vladimir-bsd-stable@math.uic.edu
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: tip
References: <19991014234420.12896.qmail@math.uic.edu>
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You know, that one got me too: I had once tried to use tip for numeric
paging, and I couldn't do the dial
pause. I don't have time to try it myself, but if you want to, try this
hack: it substitutes the comma-delimiter with a semicolon-delimiter in the
phones file. A semicolon in a dial string is supposed to return the modem to
command-mode after dialing. That will let the telco connection continue, but
will wait for AT commands to go on-hook or start the handshake. I can't
imagine a use for that in tip. Every time *I* have done that, it has been
for troubleshooting and was convenient to type the AT command manually.

I wonder why just a linefeed character won't work...

This should probably be done with a #define...

---cut---
*** acu.c.orig       Sun Aug 29 10:33:40 1999
--- acu.c     Thu Oct 14 20:56:00 1999
***************
*** 105,111 ****
                return ("unknown ACU type");
        if (*cp != '@') {
                while (*cp) {
!                       for (phnum = cp; *cp && *cp != ','; cp++)
                                ;
                        if (*cp)
                                *cp++ = '\0';
--- 105,111 ----
                return ("unknown ACU type");
        if (*cp != '@') {
                while (*cp) {
!                       for (phnum = cp; *cp && *cp != 0x3b ; cp++)
                                ;
                        if (*cp)
                                *cp++ = '\0';
***************
*** 142,148 ****
                                fclose(fd);
                                return ("missing phone number");
                        }
!                       for (phnum = cp; *cp && *cp != ',' && *cp != '\n';
cp++)
                                ;
                        if (*cp)
                                *cp++ = '\0';
--- 142,148 ----
                                fclose(fd);
                                return ("missing phone number");
                        }
!                       for (phnum = cp; *cp && *cp != 0x3b && *cp != '\n';
cp++
)
                                ;
                        if (*cp)
                                *cp++ = '\0';
---cut---


vladimir-bsd-stable@math.uic.edu wrote:
> 
> Dear -STABLE users,
> 
> I tried to use tip today to connect to a dialup line on our
> server, and discovered that there is no way to tell tip
> to pause dialing for some period of time.   Pause is
> specified by ',' in the AT command set, but tip terminates
> dialing when a comma is encountered.   I confirmed that
> by looking at tip's source.   So is there any way to tell
> tip to pause dialing?
> 
>         Vladimir
>         vladimir@math.uic.edu
> 
> PS Also from the man page phones(5):
> .....the form: <system-name>[ \t]*<phone-number>.  The system name is one of
>      those defined in the remote(5) file and the phone number is constructed
>      from any sequence of characters terminated only by ``,'' or the end of
>      the line.
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message


-- 
PLEASE NOTICE: THERE MAY BE NOSPAM IN THE HEADERS WHEN YOU HIT "REPLY"!!!
Jeremy McMillan <aphor at  ripco.com> | Ask for PGP-2.6.2 or 5.0i
Chicago FreeBSD Users Group
http://pages.ripco.com/~aphor/ChiFUG.html


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 21: 4:51 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from burra.zip.com.au (bart.zip.com.au [61.8.6.5])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C62114F41
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	(envelope-from bart)
To: "Morgan Davis" <mdavis@cts.com>
Cc: <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fix for broken "make installworld"
References: <NABBLJGKKPMOKACIENPPGEMBCIAA.mdavis@cts.com>
From: Bart Lindsey <bart@burra.zip.com.au>
Date: 15 Oct 1999 13:57:43 +1000
In-Reply-To: "Morgan Davis"'s message of "Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:52:35 -0700"
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Hi Morgan,

In your original post you didn't mention that you were doing your make
installworld over NFS.

It looks as though you need to sync the /etc/make.conf files of both
machines. Check NOMANCOMPRESS.

Cheers,

  Bart.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 23: 6:47 1999
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: onemo@jps.net
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Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:06:35 GMT
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Hi guys

well I have re installed the whole system, and I am back to the same spot 
with the same thing happening

I do have an error that I have seen at some other time, when I type just kfm 
or kde   I see an error

/usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 Shared object "libjpeg.so.9" not found

libjpeg.so.9 has turned up in other errors very early in the piece as well, 
so maybe I have a damaged package here? what do you all think ?  I am going 
to try and investigate this and find what .tar.gz file it comes in, then can 
try downloading and manually unpacking it ....


I will await some further advice before chopping into things too much, in 
case its a common thing

The X server is running, and was before, I have all the KDE menus (similar 
to ifw95 menu's) only thing is when you click on them nothing opens  ie 
click the file manager = nothing , click console = nothing, but all the 
menus are there and navigateable.....make sense ?

This is killing me.....


There must be a common packeage between the different desktops, and without 
it they wont operate properly....any clue ?  sheesh I am rambling on now

Greg





>From: Michael Oski <onemo@jps.net>
>Greg W wrote:
>
> > I suspect much more sinister error here, like a corrupted binary or
> > something, I had localhost, but did not have in profile etc
> >
> > I really thank you guys for tying to help, but its got the better of me, 
>yep
> > I have started a fresh install, I choose kernel + X + all x libs/bin
> >
> > Will see what happens, some may say I dont have the patience to become 
>an
> > Xpert, but this was going beyond the joke for me
> >
> > Will report my findings  :-)  who knows, I may be asking for a new CD  !
> >
> > I dont know how many RH users are reading this, but with 3.3 is X 
>usually as
> > staright forward as RH (its knocked as being difficult to set x up on by
> > some, however its always been relatively painless irrespective of wm or
> > desktop)
> >
> > C ya !
>
>Hehe, actually, you ARE on the road to becoming an expert. Remember, we 
>humans
>learn best through failure!
>
>As for RH and the ease of installation, I've used FreeBSD and various Linux
>distributions and they're all pretty much the same. I've actually had more
>difficulty with the Linux stuff than the BSD personally, but then again I 
>got
>used to BSD first.
>
>Hang in there.... You'll get it right, then you can help out the next 
>person
>with troubles!
>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 23:16:59 1999
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To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org
Subject: Odd dmesg output or SCSI tagged-queueing problem?
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From: Parag Patel <parag@cgt.com>
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Hello.  I just noticed my system's two IBM SCSI disks aren't displaying
a "tagged queueing enabled" message.  I only noticed it when I added a
3rd disk to the system today.  Here's the edited dmesg output (the
complete output is appended below):

...
ahc0: <Adaptec aic7880 Ultra SCSI adapter> rev 0x00 int a irq 19 on pci0.6.0
ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
...
da2 at ahc0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0
da2: <QUANTUM XP34550W LYK8> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da2: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da2: 4341MB (8890760 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 553C)
...
da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
da1: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
da1: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
...
da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
da0: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
...

Now I seem to remember that these IBM drives used to be displayed like
the Quantum, that is with the string "Tagged Queueing Enabled".  I
searched all the /var/log/messages files to see if any earlier kernel
did display this, but nothing up to 4.0-CURRENT as of May 1999 displayed
this string, and I've switched to running STABLE since.

A search of the mail archives didn't turn up anything directly related
to this, although one other person with the *identical* 7880 and IBM
drive *did* have "Tagged Queueing Enabled" in their dmesg output.  So it
seems that at least I'm not mis-remembering this.  I think.

Thoughts?  Thanks!


	-- Parag Patel


Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
	The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE #3: Thu Oct 14 15:12:05 PDT 1999
    root@pinhead.parag.codegen.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/PINHEAD
Timecounter "i8254"  frequency 1193182 Hz
CPU: Pentium II (686-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x634  Stepping = 4
  Features=0x80fbff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,MMX>
real memory  = 268435456 (262144K bytes)
avail memory = 258191360 (252140K bytes)
Programming 24 pins in IOAPIC #0
FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard
 cpu0 (BSP): apic id:  1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000
 cpu1 (AP):  apic id:  0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000
 io0 (APIC): apic id:  2, version: 0x00170011, at 0xfec00000
Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02ed000.
Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled
Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
chip0: <Intel 82443LX host to PCI bridge> rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0
chip1: <Intel 82443LX PCI-PCI bridge> rev 0x03 on pci0.1.0
chip2: <Intel 82371AB PCI to ISA bridge> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.0
ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX4 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.1
chip3: <Intel 82371AB Power management controller> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.3
ahc0: <Adaptec aic7880 Ultra SCSI adapter> rev 0x00 int a irq 19 on pci0.6.0
ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
fxp0: <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B Ethernet> rev 0x05 int a irq 17 on pci0.11.0
fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:da:98:26
Probing for devices on PCI bus 1:
vga0: <Matrox model 051f graphics accelerator> rev 0x00 int a irq 16 on pci1.0.0
Probing for PnP devices:
CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL00e4 [0xe4008c0e] Serial 0x08de2f0a Comp ID: PNPb02f [0x2fb0d041]
Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
sc0 on isa
sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard
atkbd0 irq 1 on isa
psm0 irq 12 on isa
psm0: model MouseMan+, device ID 0
sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa
sio0: type 16550A
sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa
sio1: type 16550A
sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 5 on isa
sio2: type 16550A
sio3 at 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 9 on isa
sio3: type 16550A
ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa
ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode
ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/9 bytes threshold
lpt0: <generic printer> on ppbus 0
lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
ppi0: <generic parallel i/o> on ppbus 0
fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold
fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
wdc0: unit 0 (atapi): <TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6202B/1108>, removable, accel, ovlap, dma, iordis
acd0: drive speed 5512KB/sec, 256KB cache
acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked
wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): <IBM-DJNA-371800>, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16
wd2: 17206MB (35239680 sectors), 34960 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S
sb0 at 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 on isa
snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
sbxvi0 at drq 5 on isa
snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
sbmidi0 not found at 0x330
opl0 at 0x388 on isa
snd0: <Yamaha OPL3 FM> 
joy0 at 0x201 on isa
joy0: joystick
joy1 not probed due to I/O address conflict with joy0 at 0x201
vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa
npx0 on motherboard
npx0: INT 16 interface
APIC_IO: Testing 8254 interrupt delivery
APIC_IO: routing 8254 via pin 2
Waiting 3 seconds for SCSI devices to settle
SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched!
pass4 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0
pass4: <UMAX Astra 600S V1.6> Fixed Scanner SCSI-2 device 
pass4: 3.300MB/s transfers
da2 at ahc0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0
da2: <QUANTUM XP34550W LYK8> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da2: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da2: 4341MB (8890760 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 553C)
changing root device to da0s2a
cd0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 4 lun 0
cd0: <SONY CD-R   CDU926S 1.1e> Removable Worm SCSI-2 device 
cd0: 10.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 15)
cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present
da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
da1: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
da1: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
da0: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
pid 493 (kpilotDaemon), uid 1000: exited on signal 6
 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 23:26:42 1999
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From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Parag Patel" <parag@cgt.com>, <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Odd dmesg output or SCSI tagged-queueing problem?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:26:24 -0700
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	From cam_xpt.c:

                /*
                 * Slow when tagged queueing is enabled.  Write performance
                 * steadily drops off with more and more concurrent
                 * transactions.  Best sequential write performance with
                 * tagged queueing turned off and write caching turned on.
                 *
                 * PR:  kern/10398
                 * Submitted by:  Hideaki Okada <hokada@isl.melco.co.jp>
                 * Drive:  DCAS-34330 w/ "S65A" firmware.
                 *
                 * The drive with the problem had the "S65A" firmware
                 * revision, and has also been reported (by Stephen J.
                 * Roznowski <sjr@home.net>) for a drive with the "S61A"
                 * firmware revision.
                 *
                 * Although no one has reported problems with the 2 gig
                 * version of the DCAS drive, the assumption is that it
                 * has the same problems as the 4 gig version.  Therefore
                 * this quirk entries disables tagged queueing for all
                 * DCAS drives.
                 */


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Parag Patel
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 11:17 PM
> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org
> Subject: Odd dmesg output or SCSI tagged-queueing problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Hello.  I just noticed my system's two IBM SCSI disks aren't displaying
> a "tagged queueing enabled" message.  I only noticed it when I added a
> 3rd disk to the system today.  Here's the edited dmesg output (the
> complete output is appended below):
> 
> ...
> ahc0: <Adaptec aic7880 Ultra SCSI adapter> rev 0x00 int a irq 19 
> on pci0.6.0
> ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
> ...
> da2 at ahc0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0
> da2: <QUANTUM XP34550W LYK8> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da2: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged 
> Queueing Enabled
> da2: 4341MB (8890760 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 553C)
> ...
> da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
> da1: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
> da1: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
> ...
> da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
> da0: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
> da0: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
> ...
> 
> Now I seem to remember that these IBM drives used to be displayed like
> the Quantum, that is with the string "Tagged Queueing Enabled".  I
> searched all the /var/log/messages files to see if any earlier kernel
> did display this, but nothing up to 4.0-CURRENT as of May 1999 displayed
> this string, and I've switched to running STABLE since.
> 
> A search of the mail archives didn't turn up anything directly related
> to this, although one other person with the *identical* 7880 and IBM
> drive *did* have "Tagged Queueing Enabled" in their dmesg output.  So it
> seems that at least I'm not mis-remembering this.  I think.
> 
> Thoughts?  Thanks!
> 
> 
> 	-- Parag Patel
> 
> 
> Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc.
> Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
> 	The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
> FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE #3: Thu Oct 14 15:12:05 PDT 1999
>     root@pinhead.parag.codegen.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/PINHEAD
> Timecounter "i8254"  frequency 1193182 Hz
> CPU: Pentium II (686-class CPU)
>   Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x634  Stepping = 4
>   
> Features=0x80fbff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR
> ,PGE,MCA,CMOV,MMX>
> real memory  = 268435456 (262144K bytes)
> avail memory = 258191360 (252140K bytes)
> Programming 24 pins in IOAPIC #0
> FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard
>  cpu0 (BSP): apic id:  1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000
>  cpu1 (AP):  apic id:  0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000
>  io0 (APIC): apic id:  2, version: 0x00170011, at 0xfec00000
> Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc02ed000.
> Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled
> Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
> chip0: <Intel 82443LX host to PCI bridge> rev 0x03 on pci0.0.0
> chip1: <Intel 82443LX PCI-PCI bridge> rev 0x03 on pci0.1.0
> chip2: <Intel 82371AB PCI to ISA bridge> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.0
> ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX4 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.1
> chip3: <Intel 82371AB Power management controller> rev 0x01 on pci0.4.3
> ahc0: <Adaptec aic7880 Ultra SCSI adapter> rev 0x00 int a irq 19 
> on pci0.6.0
> ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
> fxp0: <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B Ethernet> rev 0x05 int a 
> irq 17 on pci0.11.0
> fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:da:98:26
> Probing for devices on PCI bus 1:
> vga0: <Matrox model 051f graphics accelerator> rev 0x00 int a irq 
> 16 on pci1.0.0
> Probing for PnP devices:
> CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL00e4 [0xe4008c0e] Serial 0x08de2f0a Comp ID: 
> PNPb02f [0x2fb0d041]
> Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
> sc0 on isa
> sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
> atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard
> atkbd0 irq 1 on isa
> psm0 irq 12 on isa
> psm0: model MouseMan+, device ID 0
> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa
> sio0: type 16550A
> sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa
> sio1: type 16550A
> sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 5 on isa
> sio2: type 16550A
> sio3 at 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 9 on isa
> sio3: type 16550A
> ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa
> ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode
> ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/9 bytes threshold
> lpt0: <generic printer> on ppbus 0
> lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
> ppi0: <generic parallel i/o> on ppbus 0
> fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
> fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold
> fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
> wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
> wdc0: unit 0 (atapi): <TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6202B/1108>, removable, 
> accel, ovlap, dma, iordis
> acd0: drive speed 5512KB/sec, 256KB cache
> acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
> acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
> acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
> acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked
> wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
> wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): <IBM-DJNA-371800>, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16
> wd2: 17206MB (35239680 sectors), 34960 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S
> sb0 at 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 on isa
> snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
> sbxvi0 at drq 5 on isa
> snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
> sbmidi0 not found at 0x330
> opl0 at 0x388 on isa
> snd0: <Yamaha OPL3 FM> 
> joy0 at 0x201 on isa
> joy0: joystick
> joy1 not probed due to I/O address conflict with joy0 at 0x201
> vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa
> npx0 on motherboard
> npx0: INT 16 interface
> APIC_IO: Testing 8254 interrupt delivery
> APIC_IO: routing 8254 via pin 2
> Waiting 3 seconds for SCSI devices to settle
> SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched!
> pass4 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0
> pass4: <UMAX Astra 600S V1.6> Fixed Scanner SCSI-2 device 
> pass4: 3.300MB/s transfers
> da2 at ahc0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0
> da2: <QUANTUM XP34550W LYK8> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da2: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged 
> Queueing Enabled
> da2: 4341MB (8890760 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 553C)
> changing root device to da0s2a
> cd0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 4 lun 0
> cd0: <SONY CD-R   CDU926S 1.1e> Removable Worm SCSI-2 device 
> cd0: 10.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 15)
> cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present
> da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
> da1: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
> da1: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
> da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
> da0: <IBM DCAS-34330W S65A> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit)
> da0: 4134MB (8467200 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 527C)
> pid 493 (kpilotDaemon), uid 1000: exited on signal 6
>  
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
> 


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Thu Oct 14 23:54: 5 1999
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Message-Id: <199910150653.XAA78544@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
Subject: Re: tip
In-Reply-To: <38068A5A.BBC152D@ripco.com> from Jeremy McMillan at "Oct 14, 1999 08:58:50 pm"
To: aphor@ripco.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: vladimir-bsd-stable@math.uic.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
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> You know, that one got me too: I had once tried to use tip for numeric
> paging, and I couldn't do the dial
> pause. I don't have time to try it myself, but if you want to, try this
> hack: it substitutes the comma-delimiter with a semicolon-delimiter in the
> phones file. A semicolon in a dial string is supposed to return the modem to
> command-mode after dialing. That will let the telco connection continue, but
> will wait for AT commands to go on-hook or start the handshake. I can't
> imagine a use for that in tip. Every time *I* have done that, it has been
> for troubleshooting and was convenient to type the AT command manually.
> 
> I wonder why just a linefeed character won't work...

A more correct fix would be to add \ escaping to this piece of code
so that you could do ``5551212\,\,\,\,5555\,\,\,\,123456''.



-- 
Rod Grimes - KD7CAX - (RWG25)                    rgrimes@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15  0:10: 9 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:09:57 +0300
From: Vallo Kallaste <vallo@matti.ee>
To: Greg W <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
Cc: onemo@jps.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
Message-ID: <19991015100957.A9933@myhakas.matti.ee>
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On Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 06:06:35AM +0000, Greg W <redhat_list@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys
> 
> well I have re installed the whole system, and I am back to the same spot 
> with the same thing happening
> 
> I do have an error that I have seen at some other time, when I type just kfm 
> or kde   I see an error
> 
> /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 Shared object "libjpeg.so.9" not found
> 
> libjpeg.so.9 has turned up in other errors very early in the piece as well, 
> so maybe I have a damaged package here? what do you all think ?  I am going 
> to try and investigate this and find what .tar.gz file it comes in, then can 
> try downloading and manually unpacking it ....

Use the ports system, cd /usr/ports/graphics/jpeg && make clean install
and you are back on the road again. Some component from the KDE needs
libjpeg, don't remember which exactly. For some reason your system
doesn't have this library. 
-- 

Vallo Kallaste
vallo@matti.ee


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15  0:36:11 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" <wind_prowler@hotmail.com>
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: problem making kernel...
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:36:09 MYT
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I have a problem of making the kernel. I think there is a file corrupted in 
the source tree and I don't know which one...
The error output is ...

sh ../../conf/newvers.sh OPAL
cc -c -O -pipe -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit  
-Wnested-ex
terns -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith -Winline 
-Wunini
tialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi  -nostdinc -I- -I. 
-I../..
-I../../../include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include opt_global.h -elf  vers.c
loading kernel
vpo.o: In function `vpoattach':
vpo.o(.text+0x10f): undefined reference to `cam_simq_alloc'
vpo.o(.text+0x134): undefined reference to `cam_sim_alloc'
vpo.o(.text+0x144): undefined reference to `cam_simq_free'
vpo.o(.text+0x152): undefined reference to `xpt_bus_register'
vpo.o(.text+0x16e): undefined reference to `xpt_create_path'
vpo.o(.text+0x18d): undefined reference to `xpt_bus_deregister'
vpo.o(.text+0x197): undefined reference to `cam_sim_free'
vpo.o: In function `vpo_action':
vpo.o(.text+0x4b5): undefined reference to `xpt_done'
*** Error code 1

Can anyone please tell me what to do??
thanks...

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15  2:54:30 1999
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From: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
To: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>, onemo@jps.net
Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:48:45 -0500
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Greg W wrote:
> Hi guys
> 
> well I have re installed the whole system, and I am back to the same spot 
> with the same thing happening
> 
> I do have an error that I have seen at some other time, when I type just kfm 
> or kde   I see an error
> 
> /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 Shared object "libjpeg.so.9" not found

This is your problem. When the kde module attempts to start, it "bombs" and
therefore doesn't work.

Install libjpeg.so.9 (aka libjpeg6b) and things should improve.

It is possible that you have the library, but are not finding it. If that is
the case, check "ldconfig"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 10:43:24 1999
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From: "Michael Steinfeld" <mike@sprawlnet.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: System hangs on Local pkg Init and shutdown
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:42:10 -0400
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Yesterday i cvsup'd the latest -stable sources and the ' make world ' =
from 3.2-release to 3.3-stable was smooth.
 However, I seem to be hanging when i attempt to shutdown the system.  =
when i attempt to boot the system i hang on local package =
initialization'. I have tried to boot -s and see if there is any errors =
messages in any of my logs which unfortunatly there is not.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

thanks

Michael Steinfeld
Unix Administrator
Sprawlnet.com INC

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yesterday i cvsup'd the latest -stable sources and =
the ' make=20
world ' from 3.2-release to 3.3-stable was smooth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;However, I seem to be hanging when i attempt =
to shutdown=20
the system.&nbsp; when i attempt to boot the system i hang on local =
package=20
initialization'. I have tried to boot -s and see if there is any errors =
messages=20
in any of my logs which unfortunatly there is not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If anyone has any ideas, please let me =
know.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Michael Steinfeld<BR>Unix =
Administrator<BR>Sprawlnet.com=20
INC</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 10:49: 5 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from ns.clientlogic.com (ns.clientlogic.com [207.51.66.75])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BFF14C20
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From: Christopher Michaels <ChrisMic@clientlogic.com>
To: 'Michael Steinfeld' <mike@sprawlnet.com>,
	freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: System hangs on Local pkg Init and shutdown
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:52:06 -0400
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Well, the local stuff is stored in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/

Check the files in there, possably move the files out of there and run them
one by one until you find the culprit.

-Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Michael Steinfeld [SMTP:mike@sprawlnet.com]
> Sent:	Friday, October 15, 1999 1:42 PM
> To:	freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
> Subject:	System hangs on Local pkg Init and shutdown
> 
> Yesterday i cvsup'd the latest -stable sources and the ' make world ' from
> 3.2-release to 3.3-stable was smooth.
>  However, I seem to be hanging when i attempt to shutdown the system.
> when i attempt to boot the system i hang on local package initialization'.
> I have tried to boot -s and see if there is any errors messages in any of
> my logs which unfortunatly there is not.
>  
> If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.
>  
> thanks
>  
> Michael Steinfeld
> Unix Administrator
> Sprawlnet.com INC


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 11:14:38 1999
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From: "Michael Steinfeld" <mike@sprawlnet.com>
To: <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: System hangs on Local pkg Init and shutdown
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:13:31 -0400
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Thanks Chris.=20

It was apache139+mod_ssl that was hanging the system.

Im still trying to figure out why it hangs right after sutting down the =
system and syncing the disks are done
____________________________________


Michael Steinfeld    =20
Unix Administrator    =20
Sprawlnet.com INC    =20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks Chris. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It&nbsp;was apache139+mod_ssl&nbsp;that was hanging =
the=20
system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Im still trying to figure out why it hangs right =
after sutting=20
down the system and syncing the disks are done</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>____________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Michael =
Steinfeld&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>Unix=20
Administrator&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>Sprawlnet.com=20
INC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 14:48:21 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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From: "Greg W" <redhat_list@hotmail.com>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [MY] Broken X and window managers
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:48:18 GMT
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Hugs & Kisses too all xoxoxox

err....hang on... better take that back

Read on




>
>Greg W wrote:
>
> > I suspect much more sinister error here, like a corrupted binary or
> > something, I had localhost, but did not have in profile etc
> >
> > I really thank you guys for tying to help, but its got the better of me, 
>yep
> > I have started a fresh install, I choose kernel + X + all x libs/bin
> >






Well a real "BIG" thank you for all that really did try helping me, your 
ideas help me with getting to be intimate, no sorry, I am getting excited 
again, well lets say they give me some insight....

Well this system is a bit different too Linux (well I know, its UNIX)
now only Allah or God or Tux or the little BSD demon fellow will know 
exactly what was happening on this system.

After well lets see, nope not enought fingers here,  well a lot of re 
installs, after changing HDD and Vid cards, and doing more re installing, 
damn , at last , just after ordering 2 more CD's of BSD,  KDE worked, 
networkings working (he he) bash loads as soon as login (dont say it, i did 
the same before) , but I suspect that somehow, somewhere there was some 
corruption before and it was not being overwritten for some reason, or who 
knows, maybe my CD and the second other HDD were fighting for some memory 
space



I dunno, and I am starting to babble, I have had about 20hrs sleep in 4.5 
days, and I am goona sleep well soon


AGAIN A BIG THANKS, you should all pat yourselves on the back for being such 
a patient community, along with others, that take that bit of time out too 
help, I hope I learn enough to be able to give some back later...I do know a 
bit about Apache & Sendmail and Virtualhosting for these, so if you have a 
question, fire it at my new email below


redhat_list@mail.com


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 15: 3:47 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:03:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: MailingList User <freebsd@palat.net>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Graphical FTP Clients Problem..
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Hi all, 
I was wondering if mayhaps anyone out there had run into this problem
or one similar.  We are running FreeBSD version FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE
and our users are finding that when they use a graphical FTP client,
(ie CuteFTP) the server appears to not be transmitting that directories
are in fact directories and so the client is finding that it appears
as a filename and not a directory and thus cannot be entered, rather it
attempts to download the "file".  I would assume normally that this was
a client issue, but that does not seem to be the case as it has been
verified with other clients of the same type.  Any suggestions?

--Raj



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 15: 5:55 1999
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Hhmm, I have no problem downloading / uploading big directory trees (and I
mean big) between my windows box (w/ CuteFTP) and my primary fbsd box...

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, MailingList User wrote:

: 
: Hi all, 
: I was wondering if mayhaps anyone out there had run into this problem
: or one similar.  We are running FreeBSD version FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE
: and our users are finding that when they use a graphical FTP client,
: (ie CuteFTP) the server appears to not be transmitting that directories
: are in fact directories and so the client is finding that it appears
: as a filename and not a directory and thus cannot be entered, rather it
: attempts to download the "file".  I would assume normally that this was
: a client issue, but that does not seem to be the case as it has been
: verified with other clients of the same type.  Any suggestions?
: 
: --Raj
: 
: 
: 
: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
: with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
: 

--
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians
 would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees
 and written evolution off as a bad idea. Hell, I always thought the
 opposable thumb was overrated."
        -Sheridan, "A Distant Star"



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 15:11:38 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DC415333
	for <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
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	(envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" <wind_prowler@hotmail.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: problem making kernel...
In-Reply-To: <19991015073609.17215.qmail@hotmail.com>
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Nawfal M. Rouyan wrote:

> vpo.o: In function `vpoattach':
> vpo.o(.text+0x10f): undefined reference to `cam_simq_alloc'
> vpo.o(.text+0x134): undefined reference to `cam_sim_alloc'
> vpo.o(.text+0x144): undefined reference to `cam_simq_free'
> vpo.o(.text+0x152): undefined reference to `xpt_bus_register'
> vpo.o(.text+0x16e): undefined reference to `xpt_create_path'
> vpo.o(.text+0x18d): undefined reference to `xpt_bus_deregister'
> vpo.o(.text+0x197): undefined reference to `cam_sim_free'
> vpo.o: In function `vpo_action':
> vpo.o(.text+0x4b5): undefined reference to `xpt_done'
> *** Error code 1
> 
> Can anyone please tell me what to do??

Someone forgot "controller scbus0".

Doug White                    |  FreeBSD: The Power to Serve
dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu     |  www.FreeBSD.org



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 16: 3:28 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	id CF2F2150C8; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
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	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id C09E11CD46B; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kris Kennaway <kris@hub.freebsd.org>
To: Chris Byrnes <chris@jeah.net>
Cc: FreeBSD Stable Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: Apache SSL.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991014165039.00794100@jeah.net>
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Chris Byrnes wrote:

> ===>  Building for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37
> ===> src
> ===> src/os/unix
> cc -c  -I../../os/unix -I../../include -I/usr/local/include
> -DHARD_SERVER_LIMIT=512  -DDOCUMENT_LOCATION=\"/usr/local/www/data/\"
> -DDEFAULT_PATH=\"/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin\" -funsigned-char
> -DTARGET=\"httpsd\" -DUSE_EXPAT -I../../lib/expat-lite -DAPACHE_SSL -O
> -pipe -I/usr/local/include/openssl `../../apaci` os.c
> In file included from ../../include/ap_config.h:1105,
>                  from os.c:6:
> /usr/local/include/regex.h:115: parse error before `re_void'
> /usr/local/include/regex.h:115: warning: data definition has no type or
> storage class
> /usr/local/include/regex.h:281: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
> /usr/local/include/regex.h:290: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
> /usr/local/include/regex.h:293: parse error before `_ANSI_ARGS_'
> *** Error code 1

Looks like it's picking up /usr/local/include/regex.h instead of
/usr/include/regex.h - I'm not sure which port installs that. As a
workaround, you can temporarily rename that file and it should have a
better chance of building.

This question should also have gone to ports@freebsd.org.

Kris

----
XOR for AES -- join the campaign!



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Fri Oct 15 16: 6:11 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from hetzels@westbend.net)
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Message-ID: <007e01bf1761$d1c553e0$8dfee0d1@westbend.net>
From: "Scot W. Hetzel" <hetzels@westbend.net>
To: "MailingList User" <freebsd@palat.net>
Cc: <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910151758250.14571-100000@palat.net>
Subject: Re: Graphical FTP Clients Problem..
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:05:47 -0500
Organization: West Bend Internet
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From: MailingList User <freebsd@palat.net>
> I was wondering if mayhaps anyone out there had run into this problem
> or one similar.  We are running FreeBSD version FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE
> and our users are finding that when they use a graphical FTP client,
> (ie CuteFTP) the server appears to not be transmitting that directories
> are in fact directories and so the client is finding that it appears
> as a filename and not a directory and thus cannot be entered, rather it
> attempts to download the "file".  I would assume normally that this was
> a client issue, but that does not seem to be the case as it has been
> verified with other clients of the same type.  Any suggestions?
> 
Have them check "Resolve Links" under "Advanced".

From the CuteFTP Help file:
    Resolve Links:  This UNIX-specific option asks the server
    to resolve symbolic links to either file or directory. 

Scot



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  2:57:36 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:57:03 +1000
From: eirvine <eirvine@tpgi.com.au>
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Hi.
 
Just cvsupped stable, made a new kernel, made world, rebooted,
and had my dinner & glass of wine :*)
 
Came back and instead of my usual screensaver (fire) there was
just a black screen. Keyboard input, mouse input etc did not 
change this. No response.
 
I managed to login "blind" and issue a "reboot". At which stage FreeBSD
rebooted. I'd like to provide more details -- but my hands - or eyes
were tied.
 
After a second glass, I've managed to repeat the problem.
  
Eddie.


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  7:26:59 1999
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Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
X-OS: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE
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Subject: Packages
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Reading all of the comments about SSH, UUCP, and packages, brings to 
mind what other operating systems do, namely RedHat, Solaris, and MVS, 
just to name three, which is that everything from the kernel down to
the last utility is a package.  If, for example, if I would not need
games or C or <put something you don't use here>, then I wouldn't
install it.  We could even have a couple of kernel packages, for example
a kernel without BPF and one with it.

Of course this could only be used by those who wish to maintain FreeBSD 
at a binary level, as those of us who use cvsup would have a 
complicated mess to deal with.  However make world could use a
selected/installed package directory to only build and install the 
desired or previously installed packages.  Of course this would break 
any package version dependencies, so this would only work with -RELEASE.

Anyhow I'm beginning to ramble.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group    Internet:  Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Province of BC            
                      "e**(i*pi)+1=0"







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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  7:48: 3 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178D414EB6
	for <FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za)
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	(envelope-from jhay)
From: John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
Message-Id: <199910161447.QAA76768@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
Subject: HEADS UP: ntpd users
To: FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:47:52 +0200 (SAT)
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This is just a heads up to ntpd users on 3.3-STABLE. 3.3-STABLE has been
updated to draft-mogul-pps-api-05.txt, so ntp-4.0.98a and older will
break on it because the old draft and the new one is quite incompatable.

If you can't wait for something later than ntp-4.0.98a to come out, there
is a patch for ntp available at:

http://www.freebsd.org/~jhay/ntp.ppsapi05.diff

If you don't have any local reference clocks, you should also be able
to build it without the patch by just adding the "--disable-all-clocks"
flag to configure.

The next version of ntp should support pps-api-05 out of the box.

John
-- 
John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  7:54:23 1999
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Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
X-OS: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE
X-Sender: cy
To: "Patrick Bihan-Faou" <patrick@mindstep.com>
Cc: "Pierre Beyssac" <beyssac@enst.fr>,
	"David G Andersen" <danderse@cs.utah.edu>,
	freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: make.conf options (was Re: package-like feature for the base distrib (was Re: FreeSSH))
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:04:10 EDT."
             <011801bf159c$f80630e0$190aa8c0@local.mindstep.com> 
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In message <011801bf159c$f80630e0$190aa8c0@local.mindstep.com>, "Patrick Bihan-
Faou" writes:
> Hi,
> 
> From: Pierre Beyssac <beyssac@enst.fr>
> 
> > There are a _lot_ of pitfalls to this kind of approach, as I have
> > discovered using Linux Debian. This would probably open a can of
> > worms you have no idea of. IMHO, the single biggest mistake in
> > Debian is the all-encompassing package system which can make your
> > life miserable in no time.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I was not talking about things that constitute the "real" core of the
> distribution (kernel, basic libraries etc.). I was more thinking about
> "userland" stuff that is included in the distribution but might not be
> required by everybody. Sendmail for example is something I don't want since
> I user qmail. However I have to remove it by hand... Other examples are bind
> or perl.

You don't need to install them.  Just put these in make.conf.

	NO_SENDMAIL=   true
	NOPERL=        true
	NOGAMES=       true

It might be a good idea to support NONAMED, NOUUCP, and NONFS, 
defines in make.conf.  Since some like to use Qmail, Postfix, SSH, and 
Kerberos V, like BUILD_PORTS='postfix ssh krb5 XFree86' in make.conf
would fetch new copies of distfiles (if you don't have them), de-install
old versions, build and install the listed ports each time a make world
is performed.

We could so far as having a INSTALL_SUID_root='su passwd ...', 
INSTALL_SUID_man='man', INSTALL_SUID_uucp='uuname uustat uux ...'
options, just to name three, which would list all of the setuid
binaries in FreeBSD.  You would remove the ones you don't need from
the list when you secure your system.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group    Internet:  Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Province of BC
                      "e**(i*pi)+1=0"





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  8:30: 2 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from matt@zigg.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:23:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Behrens <matt@zigg.com>
To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Packages
In-Reply-To: <199910161426.HAA46218@cwsys.cwsent.com>
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On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote:

: Reading all of the comments about SSH, UUCP, and packages, brings to 
: mind what other operating systems do, namely RedHat, Solaris, and MVS, 
: just to name three, which is that everything from the kernel down to
: the last utility is a package.  If, for example, if I would not need
: games or C or <put something you don't use here>, then I wouldn't
: install it.  We could even have a couple of kernel packages, for example
: a kernel without BPF and one with it.

This is a neat idea in theory; but I think it will lend itself
quickly to the pollution of the "system" directories (i.e. /bin,
/usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin, /var, /etc...), since obviously it
would be silly to break the base system up into packages and have
them maintained by a separate package system than the add-ons.  I
maintain RH systems and their "system"-level directories are an
absolute mess.  Of course, on the plus side, /usr/local is kept
100% clean and reserved for truly local packages. :-)

: Of course this could only be used by those who wish to maintain FreeBSD 
: at a binary level, as those of us who use cvsup would have a 
: complicated mess to deal with.  However make world could use a
: selected/installed package directory to only build and install the 
: desired or previously installed packages.  Of course this would break 
: any package version dependencies, so this would only work with -RELEASE.

Very true.  I think if any change is to be made for this, the best
way to do it is as follows:

1.  Break up the bin.?? distribution into subcategories.  Doesn't
even have to be as finely grained as a lot of systems out there
are; all it has to do is distinguish between major pieces of
functionality (gcc and UUCP to name a few).  bin is getting rather
large as it is.

2.  Make corresponding -DNO_WHATEVER hooks (for lack of a better
term) in buildworld.  i.e. -DNOGCC, -DNOUUCP, -DNOFOOBAR, etc.
(Perhaps this list of options could even be dumped into make.conf
by sysinstall.)

Matt Behrens <matt@zigg.com>
Owner/Administrator, zigg.com
Chief Engineer, Nameless IRC Network



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16  9: 0:22 1999
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To: Matt Behrens <matt@zigg.com>
Cc: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Packages 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:23:03 EDT."
             <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910161114170.8559-100000@megaweapon.zigg.com> 
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In message <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910161114170.8559-100000@megaweapon.zigg.com>, Matt 
Behrens writes:
> On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote:
> 2.  Make corresponding -DNO_WHATEVER hooks (for lack of a better
> term) in buildworld.  i.e. -DNOGCC, -DNOUUCP, -DNOFOOBAR, etc.
> (Perhaps this list of options could even be dumped into make.conf
> by sysinstall.)

Cool!  You and I are on the same wavelength here.  In a note from about 
an hour ago I added an idea that would give greater control over which 
files were suid as well.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group    Internet:  Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca
ITSD                                   Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca
Province of BC
                      "e**(i*pi)+1=0"





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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 10:38:24 1999
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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: xl0: command never completed!
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Morning all...

	On a 3.3-STABLE machine, being used as a Squid server, I'm getting
a pretty continuous stream of teh following message to /var/log/messages:

Oct 16 14:21:01 demeter /kernel: xl0: command never completed!

	Not including the "last message repeated # times" messages, I've
got 68 of them in the last 9hrs or so...

	dmesg reports the card as being:

xl0: <3Com 3c905B-TX Fast Etherlink XL> rev 0x24 int a irq 9 on pci0.20.0
xl0: Ethernet address: 00:10:4b:69:5c:64
xl0: autoneg complete, link status good (half-duplex, 10Mbps)

	Which I've always found to be a pretty reliable card in the
past...

	Possible bug in our driver?  Harmless error?  I'm more worried
about performance of the machine then anything, since its the first
production FreeBSD machine I've been able to railroad through at work, and
other then that, she's operating such that its pissing some ppl off...they
expected it to crash and burn ages ago *grin*

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 10:39:21 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:39:16 -0700
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Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority
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To: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Cc: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" <wind_prowler@hotmail.com>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: problem making kernel...
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Doug White wrote:

> Someone forgot "controller scbus0".

	Shouldn't /usr/sbin/config error out on this condition? There is no way
that the compile can succeed, so I'd like to see config cut this cycle
short. 

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 12: 1:42 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bosko Milekic <bmilekic@dsuper.net>
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: xl0: command never completed!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910161433070.404-100000@thelab.hub.org>
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On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

!>
!>Morning all...
!>
!>	On a 3.3-STABLE machine, being used as a Squid server, I'm getting
!>a pretty continuous stream of teh following message to /var/log/messages:
!>
!>Oct 16 14:21:01 demeter /kernel: xl0: command never completed!
!>
!>	Not including the "last message repeated # times" messages, I've
!>got 68 of them in the last 9hrs or so...
!>

	It appears that the xl_wait() function loops XL_TIMEOUT times if it
cannot confirm that XL_STAT_CMDBUSY has been unset.
	If the 'command busy' bit is still set after this, that is, if the
'for' loop has gone around XL_TIMEOUT times, then that message is printed.
	Although I'm not near certain, you _may_ want to try incresing
XL_TIMEOUT (see if_xlreg.h) and seeing what you get.

Regards,
Bosko.

--
 Bosko Milekic <bmilekic@dsuper.net>




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 13:59:32 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Cc: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" <wind_prowler@hotmail.com>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: problem making kernel...
In-Reply-To: <3808B844.54B695B9@gorean.org>
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On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Doug wrote:

> Doug White wrote:
> 
> > Someone forgot "controller scbus0".
> 
> 	Shouldn't /usr/sbin/config error out on this condition? There is no way
> that the compile can succeed, so I'd like to see config cut this cycle
> short. 

I wouldn't want config(8) getting that smart.  We'd have to generate a
dependency tree on kernel options, which would get ugly fast.

Doug White                    |  FreeBSD: The Power to Serve
dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu     |  www.FreeBSD.org



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 14: 8:56 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <3808E957.FEC45094@gorean.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:08:39 -0700
From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority
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To: eirvine <eirvine@tpgi.com.au>
Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Screen Blackness
References: <38084BEF.DF198449@tpgi.com.au>
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eirvine wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Just cvsupped stable, made a new kernel, made world, rebooted,
> and had my dinner & glass of wine :*)
> 
> Came back and instead of my usual screensaver (fire) there was
> just a black screen. Keyboard input, mouse input etc did not
> change this. No response.
> 
> I managed to login "blind" and issue a "reboot". At which stage FreeBSD
> rebooted. I'd like to provide more details -- but my hands - or eyes
> were tied.
> 
> After a second glass, I've managed to repeat the problem.

	Not to appear dense, but you haven't described what you need help with.
I assume that you want to find out what's wrong, so I would suggest that
you start by logging your build process to see where it dies. I would
suggest the following:

rm -r /usr/obj/*
back up kernel config file
rm -r /usr/src/*
download and install new sources
follow instructions for make world prep on the web site, tutorials
section
make -DNOCLEAN world 2>&1 | tee /usr/tmp/mw.out

Then you can examine the file it creates to determine where the problem
is and report back here. 

Good luck,

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 14:31:45 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:31:39 -0700
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To: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Cc: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" <wind_prowler@hotmail.com>,
	freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: problem making kernel...
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Doug White wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Doug wrote:
> 
> > Doug White wrote:
> >
> > > Someone forgot "controller scbus0".
> >
> >       Shouldn't /usr/sbin/config error out on this condition? There is no way
> > that the compile can succeed, so I'd like to see config cut this cycle
> > short.
> 
> I wouldn't want config(8) getting that smart.  We'd have to generate a
> dependency tree on kernel options, which would get ugly fast.

	I agree that it's a slippery slope, however I would think that some of
the big fat dependencies would be easy to handle. Oh well, just a
thought. 

Doug
-- 
"Stop it, I'm gettin' misty." 

    - Mel Gibson as Porter, "Payback"


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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 14:59:52 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:59:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bryan Liesner <bleez@netaxs.com>
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Promise Ultra66 
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I am trying to get FreeBSD 3.3-stable to detect a Promise Ultra66 IDE
adapter.  I searched through the mailing list archives, but could not
find an answer.  I tried the configuration detailed in LINT, but it still
isn't detected.  On boot, the card announces itself and detects my Western
Digital AC29100 and sets it up for UDMA mode 4.  The kernel will start to
load, then panic because it cannot see a hard disk controller.

Anyone out there have success with this, and if so, can I have a peek at
your config file?


==========================================================
= Bryan D. Liesner         LeezSoft Communications, Inc. =
=                          A subsidiary of LeezSoft Inc. =
= bleez@netaxs.com         Home of the Gipper            =
==========================================================



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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 16:56: 1 1999
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To: Bryan Liesner <bleez@netaxs.com>
Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Promise Ultra66 
In-reply-to: Message from Bryan Liesner <bleez@netaxs.com> 
   of "Mon, 05 May 1997 17:59:49 EDT." <Pine.BSF.4.10.9705051758380.283-100000@gravy.kishka.net> 
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Message from Bryan Liesner of "Mon, 05 May 1997 17:59:49 EDT":
> I am trying to get FreeBSD 3.3-stable to detect a Promise Ultra66 IDE
> adapter.  I searched through the mailing list archives, but could not
> find an answer.  I tried the configuration detailed in LINT, but it still
> isn't detected.  On boot, the card announces itself and detects my Western
> Digital AC29100 and sets it up for UDMA mode 4.  The kernel will start to
> load, then panic because it cannot see a hard disk controller.

Can't help with your Promise. But other things might work better if your 
system clock wasn't set back 29 months and 10 days.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.




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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 21:54:22 1999
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From owner-freebsd-stable  Sat Oct 16 22:27:16 1999
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
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	(envelope-from Doug@gorean.org)
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	(envelope-from Doug@gorean.org)
Message-ID: <38095E1E.3184E875@gorean.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:26:54 -0700
From: Doug <Doug@gorean.org>
Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority
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To: John Hay <jhay@mikom.csir.co.za>
Cc: FreeBSD-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: HEADS UP: ntpd users
References: <199910161447.QAA76768@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za>
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John Hay wrote:
> 
> This is just a heads up to ntpd users on 3.3-STABLE. 3.3-STABLE has been
> updated to draft-mogul-pps-api-05.txt, so ntp-4.0.98a and older will
> break on it because the old draft and the new one is quite incompatable.

	Does this have any relationship to the reason that the most recent xntpd
sources don't compile on -current or -stable? On -stable cvsup'ed today I
get:

Making all in util
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I../include  -g -O2 -Wall -pipe -c
tickadj.c
tickadj.c: In function `getoffsets':
tickadj.c:636: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
gcc -g -O2 -Wall -pipe  -o tickadj  tickadj.o ../libntp/libntp.a -lkvm
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I../include  -g -O2 -Wall -pipe -c
ntptime.c
ntptime.c: In function `main':
ntptime.c:194: warning: implicit declaration of function `syscall'
ntptime.c:220: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:275: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:275: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:275: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:280: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:285: structure has no member named `tv_usec'
ntptime.c:108: warning: variable `cost' might be clobbered by `longjmp' or
`vfork'
ntptime.c:109: warning: variable `rawtime' might be clobbered by `longjmp'
or `vfork'
*** Error code 1

Stop.

It has been this way for a while now. I just haven't had a good reason to
bring it up yet. :-) In times past (2.2.8 was the most recent) I've never
had any trouble compiling xntpd. Latest sources available at
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/.

Doug


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