From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 2:15:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177F3151D6 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 02:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from btalbot@ucsd.edu) Received: from ragtop ([24.0.46.246]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991121101536.WSDO11592.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@ragtop> for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 02:15:36 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991121020923.00a9f5c0@mail.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> X-Sender: btalbot@ekimaphost (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 02:15:36 -0800 To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Bryan Talbot Subject: disabling parallel installworlds In-Reply-To: <199911210109.UAA14901@lakes.dignus.com> References: <199911210034.RAA23624@freeway.dcfinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There was a recent message on this list a few days ago where someone (I think it was JKH) was wishing for a way to disable the "-j" option during install worlds. Why not use make's .NOTPARALLEL special target for the installworld (and reinstall) targets? Does it present other problems that breaks the install or something? -Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 8:41: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5482A14DF7; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA66122; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:40:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Julian Elischer Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP -stable References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Nov 1999 17:40:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: Julian Elischer's message of "Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:48:41 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070097 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.97) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes: > You should do a 'config' again before making a kernel from -stable > sources. *Always* re-run config(8) before building a kernel from updated sources. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 12:41:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from supra.rotterdam.luna.net (supra.rotterdam.luna.net [194.151.24.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0441214D2A; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 12:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ruben@luna.nl) Received: (from ruben@localhost) by supra.rotterdam.luna.net (•8.8.8/tcpwrp+ismx/8.8.8/chk+tcpwrpr) id VAA10721; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:40:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:40:59 +0100 From: Ruben van Staveren To: William Woods Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... Message-ID: <19991121214059.B10297@supra.rotterdam.luna.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from William Woods on Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:40:35PM -0800 X-NCC-Regid: nl.luna X-Organization: Luna Internet Services X-Phone: +31 10 243 1988 X-Fax: +31 10 243 1981 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:40:35PM -0800, William Woods wrote: > Running FreeBSD 3.3-Stable, SMP. When I run StarOffice, it runs ok, but I get > these messages: > Jup, same thing over here. it somehow manages to run. > Nov 20 20:37:39 freebsd /kernel: shared address space fork attempted: pid: 350 > Nov 20 20:37:39 freebsd /kernel: shared address space fork attempted: pid: 350 It is the funky shared address space fork that is implemented in -stable for uniprocessor kernels and, sadly, in -current for the SMP kernels. So, you can do two things to run StarOffice: a. install -current b. boot a uniprocessor kernel (just your SMP kernel config with the SMP removed) > FYI, I run the StarOffice 5 on my laptop also with 3.3-Stable and don't get > these messages. your laptop is an uniprocessor machine (with an uniprocessor kernel) > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: William Woods > Date: 20-Nov-99 > Time: 20:38:06 > FreeBSD 3.3 -Stable > ---------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message Regards, Ruben -- Ruben van Staveren - PGP public key on request - ruben@luna.net U'nix, because I'm worth it _ // You too ? - Luna Internet Services +31-(0)10.243.1988 \X/ Postbus 28013 3003 KA Rotterdam NL echo `echo "xiun"|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)x un\2\1 is xg'`ol To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 13:15:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mechv.me.tuns.ca (mechv.me.TUNS.Ca [134.190.50.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E443151AD; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:15:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bbursey@mechv.me.tuns.ca) Received: from localhost (bbursey@localhost) by mechv.me.tuns.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00432; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:10:49 -0400 (AST) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:10:48 -0400 (AST) From: Bryan Bursey To: Ruben van Staveren Cc: William Woods , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-Reply-To: <19991121214059.B10297@supra.rotterdam.luna.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've heard that you can do the install with a uniprocessor kernel and then run with a SMP kernel without problems. Unfortunately, that hasn't worked for me. I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. Over and out. Bryan On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Ruben van Staveren wrote: |Hi, | |On Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 08:40:35PM -0800, William Woods wrote: |> Running FreeBSD 3.3-Stable, SMP. When I run StarOffice, it runs ok, but I get |> these messages: |> | |Jup, same thing over here. it somehow manages to run. | |> Nov 20 20:37:39 freebsd /kernel: shared address space fork attempted: pid: 350 |> Nov 20 20:37:39 freebsd /kernel: shared address space fork attempted: pid: 350 | |It is the funky shared address space fork that is implemented in -stable for |uniprocessor kernels and, sadly, in -current for the SMP kernels. | |So, you can do two things to run StarOffice: |a. install -current |b. boot a uniprocessor kernel (just your SMP kernel config with the SMP removed) | | |> FYI, I run the StarOffice 5 on my laptop also with 3.3-Stable and don't get |> these messages. | |your laptop is an uniprocessor machine (with an uniprocessor kernel) | |> |> ---------------------------------- |> E-Mail: William Woods |> Date: 20-Nov-99 |> Time: 20:38:06 |> FreeBSD 3.3 -Stable |> ---------------------------------- |> |> |> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org |> with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message | |Regards, | Ruben | |-- |Ruben van Staveren - PGP public key on request - ruben@luna.net |U'nix, because I'm worth it _ // You too ? - Luna Internet Services |+31-(0)10.243.1988 \X/ Postbus 28013 3003 KA Rotterdam NL |echo `echo "xiun"|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)x un\2\1 is xg'`ol | | |To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org |with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message | ________________________________ Bryan Bursey, DEng Dept. of Mechanical Engineering DalTech (TUNS) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 13:19:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84214E97; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:19:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA62711; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Bryan Bursey Cc: Ruben van Staveren , William Woods , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:10:48 -0400." Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:19:45 -0800 Message-ID: <62708.943219185@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from > freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't > suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who > could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. Applixware works just fine under SMP. That's how I did all of the testing, in fact. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 13:20:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7921526A for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id VAA31462; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:20:43 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:10:57 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991121020923.00a9f5c0@mail.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> References: <199911210109.UAA14901@lakes.dignus.com> <199911210034.RAA23624@freeway.dcfinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:10:56 +0000 To: Bryan Talbot From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: disabling parallel installworlds Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 2:15 am -0800 21/11/99, Bryan Talbot wrote: >There was a recent message on this list a few days ago where someone (I >think it was JKH) was wishing for a way to disable the "-j" option during >install worlds. Why not use make's .NOTPARALLEL special target for the >installworld (and reinstall) targets? Does it present other problems that >breaks the install or something? See bin/10985 (closed) for discussion on this. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14: 3:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [216.190.188.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A5314C04; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from laptop.cybcon.com (william@usr1-38.cybcon.com [205.147.75.39]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA04319; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:02:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <62708.943219185@localhost> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:01:08 -0800 (PST) From: William Woods To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, Ruben van Staveren , Bryan Bursey Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sure...lets make a sales pitch for Applixware....really folks, I have StarOffice on the laptop and on the Desktop so In can share files between the two. If I have Applix on the Desktop (SMP) then I need to have Applix on the Laptop. Twice the $$. I jusyt dont have that kind of cash to spare right now. Isnt there a way to make SMP StarOffice work? On 21-Nov-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from >> freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't >> suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who >> could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. > > Applixware works just fine under SMP. That's how I did all of the > testing, in fact. > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: William Woods Date: 21-Nov-99 Time: 13:59:16 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14: 7: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles523.castles.com [208.214.165.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12D214C04; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:06:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04059; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911212157.NAA04059@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Bryan Bursey Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:10:48 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:57:30 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've heard that you can do the install with a uniprocessor kernel and then > run with a SMP kernel without problems. Unfortunately, that hasn't worked > for me. > > I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from > freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't > suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who > could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. Applixware for FreeBSD runs fine on SMP systems. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14: 8:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles523.castles.com [208.214.165.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A3A1581E; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04080; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911212159.NAA04080@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: William Woods Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, Ruben van Staveren , Bryan Bursey Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:01:08 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:59:24 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sure...lets make a sales pitch for Applixware....really folks, I have > StarOffice on the laptop and on the Desktop so In can share files between the > two. If I have Applix on the Desktop (SMP) then I need to have Applix on the > Laptop. Twice the $$. I jusyt dont have that kind of cash to spare right now. Actually, Applix and SO share files just fine. > Isnt there a way to make SMP StarOffice work? Upgrade to -current. But realistically, you have a choice between a free but buggy product that sort-of works, and a cheap, stable functional product. I guess you get what you pay for. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14:14:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mls.gtonet.net (mls.gtonet.net [216.112.90.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0DE14C04 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@gtonet.net) Received: from pld (holeyman@pld.gtonet.net [216.112.90.200]) by mls.gtonet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00522 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@gtonet.net) From: "FreeBSD" To: Subject: -STABLE make buildworld fails Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:14:39 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG echo '#include "i386/xm-i386.h"' >> tconfig.h echo '#include "i386/i386.h"' > tm.h echo '#include "i386/att.h"' >> tm.h echo '#include "svr4.h"' >> tm.h echo '#include ' >> tm.h echo '#include "i386/freebsd.h"' >> tm.h echo '#include "i386/perform.h"' >> tm.h cc -c -O -pipe -I/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/config -I/usr/ src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc -I. -fexceptions -DIN_GCC -I/usr/obj /usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DL_mulsi3 -o _mulsi3.o /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc1.c *** Signal 12 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. FreeBSD freebsd@gtonet.net "LinSUX is only free if your time is worthless" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14:19:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pawn.primelocation.net (pawn.primelocation.net [205.161.238.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C1514C04 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdf.lists@fxp.org) Received: by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix, from userid 1016) id C5AA29B22; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:19:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DB6BA21; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:19:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" X-Sender: cdf.lists@pawn.primelocation.net To: FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -STABLE make buildworld fails In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, FreeBSD wrote: > cc -c -O -pipe -I/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/config -I/usr/ > src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc -I. -fexceptions -DIN_GCC -I/usr/obj > /usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DL_mulsi3 -o _mulsi3.o > /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc1.c > *** Signal 12 > That's a pretty good sign that you've cvs/cvsup'd to -current instead of -stable. ----- Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never System/Network Administrator, | claimed they were one, and always Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14:25:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [216.190.188.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391731521A; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from laptop.cybcon.com (william@pm3b-27.cybcon.com [205.147.75.92]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA05714; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:24:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199911212159.NAA04080@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: William Woods To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Cc: Bryan Bursey , Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, lets say I go with Applix....what kind of warentee (sp?) does the program come with and what about Office97 file imports? William On 21-Nov-99 Mike Smith wrote: >> Sure...lets make a sales pitch for Applixware....really folks, I have >> StarOffice on the laptop and on the Desktop so In can share files between >> the >> two. If I have Applix on the Desktop (SMP) then I need to have Applix on the >> Laptop. Twice the $$. I jusyt dont have that kind of cash to spare right >> now. > > Actually, Applix and SO share files just fine. > >> Isnt there a way to make SMP StarOffice work? > > Upgrade to -current. > > But realistically, you have a choice between a free but buggy product > that sort-of works, and a cheap, stable functional product. I guess > you get what you pay for. > > -- > \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith > \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: William Woods Date: 21-Nov-99 Time: 14:22:09 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14:31:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.sworld.de (mail.sworld.de [212.34.64.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4BB15833 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olaf@erb.nu) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mail.sworld.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15901 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:31:42 +0100 (MET) Received: from m-ras01-p158.sworld.de(212.34.66.158), claiming to be "erb.nu" via SMTP by srv10d, id smtpdAAA0.HWJc; Sun Nov 21 23:31:35 1999 Received: (from erb@localhost) by erb.nu (8.9.3/8.8.2) id XAA08818 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:33:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:33:04 +0100 From: Olaf Erb To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: i4b broken? Message-ID: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, someone broke i4b for PNP cards in -stable. It used to work very well with 3.3, but now- not anymore. See src/sys/i4b/layer1/i4b_isic_pnp.c,v 1.1.2.2 1999/11/15 22:40:28 joe. #if NPNP > 0 #warning "Fix i4b pnp!" #undef NPNP #endif There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going to happen. Olaf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 14:47:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mls.gtonet.net (mls.gtonet.net [216.112.90.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7500014E47 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@gtonet.net) Received: from pld (holeyman@pld.gtonet.net [216.112.90.200]) by mls.gtonet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00629; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:47:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@gtonet.net) From: "FreeBSD" To: "Chris D. Faulhaber" , "FreeBSD" Cc: Subject: RE: -STABLE make buildworld fails Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:47:28 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You are correct, sir. My bad. corrected re-cvsup'd building Thanks, FreeBSD freebsd@gtonet.net "LinSUX is only free if your time is worthless" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris D. Faulhaber > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 2:20 PM > To: FreeBSD > Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: -STABLE make buildworld fails > > > On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, FreeBSD wrote: > > > cc -c -O -pipe > -I/usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/config -I/usr/ > > src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc -I. -fexceptions > -DIN_GCC -I/usr/obj > > /usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DL_mulsi3 -o _mulsi3.o > > /usr/src/gnu/lib/libgcc/../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc1.c > > *** Signal 12 > > > > That's a pretty good sign that you've cvs/cvsup'd to -current instead of > -stable. > > ----- > Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never > System/Network Administrator, | claimed they were one, and always > Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 17:15:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C1B1510C; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26592; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:13:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199911220113.SAA26592@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-Reply-To: <62708.943219185@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 21, 99 01:19:45 pm" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:13:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: bbursey@mechv.me.tuns.ca, ruben@luna.net, wwoods@cybcon.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from > > freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't > > suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who > > could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. > > Applixware works just fine under SMP. That's how I did all of the > testing, in fact. > > - Jordan Are there any solid plans for a native FreeBSD port of StarOffice whenever Sun gets around to releasing the sources? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 17:27:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D3B1587C for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E25EB1C2B; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:28:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF19381B; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:28:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:28:50 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Olaf Erb Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i4b broken? In-Reply-To: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Olaf Erb wrote: > See src/sys/i4b/layer1/i4b_isic_pnp.c,v 1.1.2.2 1999/11/15 22:40:28 joe. > > #if NPNP > 0 > #warning "Fix i4b pnp!" > #undef NPNP > #endif > > There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going > to happen. I think this is just the result of an over-zealous MFC. I think newbus is the reason this was marked as such, but newbus isn't in -stable. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 17:34:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dns.sonntag.org (dns.sonntag.org [216.140.186.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEEB914F53; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aaron@sonntag.org) Received: from aaron (cs2732-58.austin.rr.com [24.27.32.58]) by dns.sonntag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA11764; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:33:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from aaron@sonntag.org) From: "Aaron Sonntag" To: , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: , , , , Subject: RE: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:50:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199911220113.SAA26592@freeway.dcfinc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have just got to say it... the implementation of star office as a standard freebsd port is very very important... In the last two weeks alone three companies have asked me about running bsd as a desktop system... and this decision was going to be based up on whether start office could be easily implemented... The workstation market can not be ignored... Aaron Sonntag Nobell Network Manager As I recall, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from > > freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't > > suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know who > > could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. > > Applixware works just fine under SMP. That's how I did all of the > testing, in fact. > > - Jordan Are there any solid plans for a native FreeBSD port of StarOffice whenever Sun gets around to releasing the sources? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 18:49:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from missouri.mcn.net (missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8353514A18 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tomcat@avicom.net) Received: from mithrandir (pm3b-182.bozeman.mcn.net [205.163.40.182]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA26681 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:49:50 -0700 (MST) From: "Tyson N. Trebesch" To: Subject: subscribe Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:49:50 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe Tyson N. Trebesch Junior, CS -- MSU Bozeman tomcat@avicom.net http://cs.montana.edu/~trebesch "There isn't a person anywhere who isn't capable of doing more than he thinks they can" -- Henry Ford To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 21:32: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD8314C92 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:32:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA68914; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: William Woods Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, Ruben van Staveren , Bryan Bursey Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 14:01:08 PST." Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:32:15 -0800 Message-ID: <68911.943248735@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sure...lets make a sales pitch for Applixware....really folks, I have I answered your question, how does this constitute a sales pitch? Your purchase of StarOffice is hardly my problem, I'm just answering a direct query and if answers annoy you then don't ask the questions. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 21:48:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [216.190.188.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E881523F; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:48:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from freebsd.cybcon.com (william@usr1-14.cybcon.com [205.147.75.15]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA03523; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:48:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <68911.943248735@localhost> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:46:27 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com From: William Woods To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Cc: Bryan Bursey , Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Probably shouldent have phrased it like that...sorry. I downloaded StarOffice at www.sun.com. I guess what I would like to ask is this then, 1) How well does ApplixWare handle MS Office97 files? 2) Do you know of any plans for Applixware to support Office 2000 formats? 3) How well does Applix share files with StarOffice (I aleady have a few in StarOffice format, although I suppose I could change them to .txt format and use them that way) 4) And this is the biggie.....Does the Applix lisence allow for multiple copies of the software (For example on a laptop and Desktop) with one purchase or would I have to purchase two copies... Regarding question #2, sibce The Applixware we have is a port from the Linux one, does this mean we will have to wait untill Applix gets Office 2000 support 1st or will we be able to work on the source ourself? On 22-Nov-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Sure...lets make a sales pitch for Applixware....really folks, I have > > I answered your question, how does this constitute a sales pitch? > Your purchase of StarOffice is hardly my problem, I'm just answering a > direct query and if answers annoy you then don't ask the questions. :-) > > - Jordan ---------------------------------- E-Mail: William Woods Date: 21-Nov-99 Time: 21:39:41 FreeBSD 3.3 -Stable ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 21:53:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434B814FE7; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:53:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA69012; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: chad@DCFinc.com Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), bbursey@mechv.me.tuns.ca, ruben@luna.net, wwoods@cybcon.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:13:50 MST." <199911220113.SAA26592@freeway.dcfinc.com> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:54:03 -0800 Message-ID: <69009.943250043@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are there any solid plans for a native FreeBSD port of StarOffice > whenever Sun gets around to releasing the sources? Whenever Sun gets around to releasing the sources, I'll try and meaningfully answer that question. Until then, the question itself has no practical bearing. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22: 1: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B26414C1A; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA69077; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Aaron Sonntag" Cc: chad@DCFinc.com, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , bbursey@mechv.me.tuns.ca, ruben@luna.net, wwoods@cybcon.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:50:25 CST." Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:01:02 -0800 Message-ID: <69074.943250462@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have just got to say it... the implementation of star office as a standard > freebsd port is very very important... Are you volunteering? Importance is measured by work, not by bold statements. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22: 5: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from thoth.mch.sni.de (thoth.mch.sni.de [192.35.17.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBF314F95; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ust@cert.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: ust@cert.siemens.de (at relayer thoth.mch.sni.de) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by thoth.mch.sni.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28773; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:04:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from mars.cert.siemens.de (ust.mchp.siemens.de [139.23.201.17]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03082; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:04:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from alaska.cert.siemens.de (alaska.cert.siemens.de [139.23.202.134]) by mars.cert.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/Siemens CERT [ $Revision: 1.9 ]) with ESMTP id HAA14600; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:04:58 +0100 (CET) Received: (from ust@localhost) by alaska.cert.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/alaska [ $Revision: 1.2 ]) id GAA42386; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 06:04:58 GMT (envelope-from ust) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:04:58 +0100 From: Udo Schweigert To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Olaf Erb , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, cvs-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i4b broken? Message-ID: <19991122070457.A42242@alaska.cert.siemens.de> Mail-Followup-To: Bill Fumerola , Olaf Erb , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, cvs-committers@freebsd.org References: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from billf@chc-chimes.com on Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:50PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:50PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Olaf Erb wrote: > > > See src/sys/i4b/layer1/i4b_isic_pnp.c,v 1.1.2.2 1999/11/15 22:40:28 joe. > > > > #if NPNP > 0 > > #warning "Fix i4b pnp!" > > #undef NPNP > > #endif > > I also noticed it, and it should not be there (only relevant under -current). Maybe there is somone who deletes these 4 lines? > > There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going There was a HEADS UP message in the -stable list by Josef Karthauser . Regards. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Udo Schweigert || Voice : +49 89 636 42170 Siemens AG, Siemens CERT || Fax : +49 89 636 41166 ZT IK 3 || email : Udo.Schweigert@mchp.siemens.de D-81730 Muenchen / Germany || : ust@cert.siemens.de PGP fingerprint || 2A 53 F6 A6 30 59 64 02 6B C4 E0 73 B2 C9 6C E7 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22:22:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D1D14C1A; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA84538; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:23:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: wwoods@cybcon.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Bryan Bursey , Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:46:27 PST." Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:23:01 -0800 Message-ID: <84534.943251781@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) How well does ApplixWare handle MS Office97 files? I don't know what you mean by Office97 since there is a whole host of file formats encompassed in that phrase. If you're asking if it reads word files, it does. If you're asking if it reads Excel files, it also does that. If you're asking if it reads Powerpoint files then I don't know since I've never tested that. I see powerpoint on the list of import formats so one assumes it works. > 2) Do you know of any plans for Applixware to support Office 2000 formats? I think that's a question for Applix - there's only so much we can know about a 3rd party product. Maybe? > 3) How well does Applix share files with StarOffice (I aleady have a few in > StarOffice format, although I suppose I could change them to .txt > format and use them that way) I have no idea since I've never used StarOffice - you tell me. :) > 4) And this is the biggie.....Does the Applix lisence allow for > multiple copies of the software (For example on a laptop and Desktop) > with one purchase or would I have to purchase two copies... I don't know the answer to this question either. I reviewed the product as well as I could and saw no specific mention of licensing except for documentation on the license key generator and the license manager, something that might be informative if Applixware currently used an LM, which it does not. I think this is another question for Applix. > Regarding question #2, sibce The Applixware we have is a port from > the Linux one, does this mean we will have to wait untill Applix > gets Office 2000 support 1st or will we be able to work on the > source ourself? I don't know what you mean by "a port from the linux one" - this is the standard ApplixWare product and it's not tied to Linux any more than it's tied to FreeBSD. If and when Applix gets Office 2000 support, I expect we'll get something newer than 4.42 to sell, same as all their other partners. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22:28:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FCA14C1A; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:28:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA71819; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:27:49 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199911220627.IAA71819@gratis.grondar.za> To: William Woods , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:27:48 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OK, lets say I go with Applix....what kind of warentee (sp?) does the program > come with and what about Office97 file imports? Personal experience here; damn good. It objects to files that have been saved with the "fast file save" option in WordXXX, but turn that off and the document is 1/2 the size and imports fine. At FreeBSDCon, I chatted to one of the Applix folk, and apparently they will put (already have?) import filter updates on their site. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22:33:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [216.190.188.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA5315210; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:33:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from freebsd.cybcon.com (william@usr1-14.cybcon.com [205.147.75.15]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA06403; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:33:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199911220627.IAA71819@gratis.grondar.za> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:31:28 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com From: William Woods To: Mark Murray Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmmm...cool, and what about Office 2000 format? On 22-Nov-99 Mark Murray wrote: >> OK, lets say I go with Applix....what kind of warentee (sp?) does the >> program >> come with and what about Office97 file imports? > > Personal experience here; damn good. It objects to files that have > been saved with the "fast file save" option in WordXXX, but turn that > off and the document is 1/2 the size and imports fine. > > At FreeBSDCon, I chatted to one of the Applix folk, and apparently > they will put (already have?) import filter updates on their site. > > M > -- > Mark Murray > Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org ---------------------------------- E-Mail: William Woods Date: 21-Nov-99 Time: 22:27:57 FreeBSD 3.3 -Stable ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 22:35:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECC715210 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA71925; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:35:06 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199911220635.IAA71925@gratis.grondar.za> To: wwoods@cybcon.com Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:35:05 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmmm...cool, and what about Office 2000 format? I believe (I'm not sure) that the documents I tested it with were Office2000. They were certainly on the list of options. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 21 23:56:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles523.castles.com [208.214.165.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6F214FAC; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06719; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911220746.XAA06719@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: wwoods@cybcon.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Bryan Bursey , Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:46:27 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:46:16 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Probably shouldent have phrased it like that...sorry. I downloaded StarOffice > at www.sun.com. I guess what I would like to ask is this then, > > 1) How well does ApplixWare handle MS Office97 files? Quite well. I even have reasonable results with FastSaved documents. > 2) Do you know of any plans for Applixware to support Office 2000 formats? It does already. > 3) How well does Applix share files with StarOffice (I aleady have a few in > StarOffice format, although I suppose I could change them to .txt > format and use them that way) It claims to read/write them; I haven't tested it. > 4) And this is the biggie.....Does the Applix lisence allow for multiple copies > of the software (For example on a laptop and Desktop) with one purchase or > would I have to purchase two copies... The Applixware office licence allows a single user unlimited use of the software. Since you are a single user, you'd be fine. > Regarding question #2, sibce The Applixware we have is a port from the Linux > one, does this mean we will have to wait untill Applix gets Office 2000 support > 1st or will we be able to work on the source ourself? It's not "a port from the Linux one"; Applixware builds for about a dozen or so platforms, and the FreeBSD port has equal status with the rest of them. As I've already stated above, it already has O2k support. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 1:39:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.pd.chel.ru (mail.pd.chel.ru [212.57.133.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DAE7514E01 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:39:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lw@pd.chel.ru) Received: (qmail 27845 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1999 09:39:17 -0000 Received: from lw.uvd.chel.su (192.168.200.123) by mail.uvd.chel.su with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 09:39:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:40:02 +0500 From: "Sergey A. Ivanov" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) S/N 41AC3D61 Reply-To: "Sergey A. Ivanov" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <0611.991122@pd.chel.ru> To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BIND 8.2.2-P5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! Last weekend i'm moved to new bind from 8.1.2 (as coming with 3.0-R). And after upgrading to new bind i was noticed named eat too much CPU time and produce great outgoing traffic to my ISP. And as long named runnig, as much resources it eat. Can anyone help me? Please... Best regards, Sergey mailto:lw@pd.chel.ru ICQ UIN: 49432691 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 4:55:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from netcom.com (netcom14.netcom.com [199.183.9.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299E014C1F for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 04:55:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stanb@netcom.com) Received: (from stanb@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA01638 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 04:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: Stan Brown Message-Id: <199911221254.EAA01638@netcom.com> Subject: How to determine IRQ usage? To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:54:34 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just put together a new/old 486 machine this weekend. I have several other 496's, but this one is several orders of magnitude slower :-( Looking at top, it appears to be spending an inordintae amount of time in interupts. I am thinking I may have an IRQ conflict. Is ther any way to determine what IRQ's are in use, and or being generated? -- Stan Brown stanb@netcom.com 404-996-6955 Factory Automation Systems Atlanta Ga. -- Look, look, see Windows 95. Buy, lemmings, buy! Pay no attention to that cliff ahead... Henry Spencer (c) 1998 Stan Brown. Redistribution via the Microsoft Network is prohibited. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 5: 7:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.sentex.ca (sand2.sentex.ca [209.167.248.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C9C14CAA for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 05:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from gravel (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by sand2.sentex.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08332; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:05:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <4.1.19991122080327.04d63510@granite.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtancsa@granite.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:04:58 -0500 To: Stan Brown , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? In-Reply-To: <199911221254.EAA01638@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:54 AM 11/22/99 , Stan Brown wrote: > Is ther any way to determine what IRQ's are in use, and or being > generated? > Try vmstat -i ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa, Network Admin * mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications Corp, * http://www.sentex.net/mike Cambridge, Ontario * 519 651 3400 Canada * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 5:13:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A0F152D2; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 05:13:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA03234; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:58 +0200 (IST) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA24011; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:55 +0200 (IST) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:53 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Stan Brown Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? In-Reply-To: <199911221254.EAA01638@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Stan Brown wrote: > I just put together a new/old 486 machine this weekend. I have several > other 496's, but this one is several orders of magnitude slower :-( > > Looking at top, it appears to be spending an inordintae amount of time > in interupts. I am thinking I may have an IRQ conflict. > > Is ther any way to determine what IRQ's are in use, and or being > generated? This is more appropriate for -questions. Redirected. As for seeing what interrupts are being generated, vmstat -i is your friend. As for the interrupts being used, see the dmesg output (which is saved in /var/run/dmesg.boot). > > -- > Stan Brown stanb@netcom.com 404-996-6955 > Factory Automation Systems > Atlanta Ga. > -- > Look, look, see Windows 95. Buy, lemmings, buy! > Pay no attention to that cliff ahead... Henry Spencer > (c) 1998 Stan Brown. Redistribution via the Microsoft Network is prohibited. > > Hope this helps, Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 5:33:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FC314F93 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 05:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23234 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09134 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.3/8.6.9) id IAA18603 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:33:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:33:04 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199911221333.IAA18603@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: XF86 sources? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I did a 3.3-RELEASE install from the CDROM, and asked for XF86 sources (all of them, actually.) After the install is finished, I don't seem to be able to locate the XF86 sources on the installed machine. Furthermore, looking over CDROM #1 - I don't seem to be able to find the sources there... (which may explain why they didn't get installed.) Perhaps the install needs to be updated? - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 5:34:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from fepB.post.tele.dk (fepB.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE29158E0 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 05:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bigchief@aub.dk) Received: from CHIEF ([194.239.157.161]) by fepB.post.tele.dk (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <19991122133404.ULOQ386.fepB.post.tele.dk@CHIEF> for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:34:04 +0100 Message-ID: <020b01bf34ee$aca1aa00$126b330a@CHIEF> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Klintrup?= To: References: <4.1.19991122080327.04d63510@granite.sentex.ca> Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:36:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There seems to be a problem with the length of the vmstat -i output on my machine ... there ain't enough room for the entire output .. (of total) interrupt total rate clk0 irq0 1393425598 99 rtc0 irq8 1783597416 127 fdc0 irq6 1 0 wdc0 irq14 240062348 17 ep0 irq5 53763994 3 Total -824117939 -59 It's an old Pentium 90 PC with a 3com Etherlink III network adapter running squid and mrtg .. The uptime says 161 days, wich ain't that much .. ?? 2:32PM up 161 days, 6:41, 1 user, load averages: 1.11, 1.09, 1.03 I'm still running 3.2-STABLE on the machine .. the "problem" might have been fixed in a later release ... uname -a says : FreeBSD proxy.pdm.dk 3.2-STABLE FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #1: Thu Jun 10 10:46:12 CEST 1999 bigchief@proxy.pdm.dk:/usr/src/sys/compile/proxy i386 Is this going to be fixed ? /Søren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Tancsa" To: "Stan Brown" ; Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 2:04 PM Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? > At 07:54 AM 11/22/99 , Stan Brown wrote: > > Is ther any way to determine what IRQ's are in use, and or being > > generated? > > > > Try vmstat -i > > ---Mike > ********************************************************************** > Mike Tancsa, Network Admin * mike@sentex.net > Sentex Communications Corp, * http://www.sentex.net/mike > Cambridge, Ontario * 519 651 3400 > Canada * > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 6:13:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F2414BC2; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 06:13:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) id OAA63735; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:12:13 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:12:13 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Udo Schweigert Cc: Bill Fumerola , Olaf Erb , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i4b broken? Message-ID: <19991122141213.K97321@florence.pavilion.net> References: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> <19991122070457.A42242@alaska.cert.siemens.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <19991122070457.A42242@alaska.cert.siemens.de> X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, Lees House, 21-23 Dyke Road, Brighton, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 07:04:58AM +0100, Udo Schweigert wrote: > On Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:50PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Olaf Erb wrote: > > I also noticed it, and it should not be there (only relevant under -current). > Maybe there is somone who deletes these 4 lines? > > > > There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going > There was a HEADS UP message in the -stable list by Josef Karthauser > . There was a heads up in -stable and -isdn last week. It was switched off in -current due to recent newbus changes, and I failed to notice when I MFC'd. Sorry. I've committed patches to fix this. They should be with your local cvsup server within the hour. Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 6:34:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de (insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.109.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22413158E0; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 06:34:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erb@insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de) Received: (from erb@localhost) by insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de (8.8.8/8.8.2) id PAA16377; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:34:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19991122153423.B27628@insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:34:23 +0100 From: Olaf Erb To: Josef Karthauser , Udo Schweigert Cc: Bill Fumerola , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i4b broken? References: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> <19991122070457.A42242@alaska.cert.siemens.de> <19991122141213.K97321@florence.pavilion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <19991122141213.K97321@florence.pavilion.net>; from Josef Karthauser on Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 02:12:13PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 02:12:13PM +0000, Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 07:04:58AM +0100, Udo Schweigert wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 21, 1999 at 07:28:50PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > > On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Olaf Erb wrote: > > > > I also noticed it, and it should not be there (only relevant under -current). > > Maybe there is somone who deletes these 4 lines? > > > > > > There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going > > There was a HEADS UP message in the -stable list by Josef Karthauser > > . > > There was a heads up in -stable and -isdn last week. It was switched off in -current > due to recent newbus changes, and I failed to notice when I MFC'd. Sorry. > > I've committed patches to fix this. They should be with your local cvsup server > within the hour. Great, thanks. Olaf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 7:37: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from relay05.indigo.ie (relay05.indigo.ie [194.125.133.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF4AD14BD2 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from judgea@indigo.ie) Received: (qmail 5135 messnum 1192186 invoked from network[194.125.133.235/relay-mgr.indigo.ie]); 22 Nov 1999 15:36:30 -0000 Received: from relay-mgr.indigo.ie (HELO indigo.ie) (194.125.133.235) by relay05.indigo.ie (qp 5135) with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 15:36:30 -0000 To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe finds only 64Mb Dell 2300 In-reply-to: Message from Carl Makin dated Thursday at 09:53. From: Alan Judge Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:36:30 +0000 Message-Id: <19991122153702.AF4AD14BD2@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Carl> We have Dell 2300, 4300 and 6300's and all need MAXMEM to detect the RAM. We have a bunch of 2300 and 4350s. Of these, two 2300s need the MAXMEM fix; the rest work fine. It must be a specific hardware rev issue, because even idential BIOS and system board software levels don't change this between supposedly identical machines. Odd. -- Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 9:29:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0711C14C0A for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:29:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01395; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XF86 sources? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:33:04 EST." <199911221333.IAA18603@lakes.dignus.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:29:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1391.943291742@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After the install is finished, I don't seem to be > able to locate the XF86 sources on the installed > machine. I sometimes have room to fit those on and sometimes not. I sort of treat them as optional since the XFree86 port can be easily used to fetch and build same. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 10: 2: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from bamf.demon.co.uk (bamf.demon.co.uk [158.152.173.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A481214DB5 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rich@dynamite.org) Received: from bluescreen (unverified [192.168.1.2]) by bluescreen.chugaboom.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Rich Wood" Organization: dynamite.org To: Olaf Erb , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:06:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: i4b broken? Reply-To: rich@dynamite.org In-reply-to: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21 Nov 99, at 23:33, Olaf Erb wrote: > There wasn't even a mail in the -stable list that this major change is going > to happen. There was a warning of the upgrade of i4b in stable last week. Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:52:53 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Copies to: freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [HEADS UP] Merge of I4B 0.83 to -STABLE Heads up. I've just upgraded I4B in -STABLE to 0.83. Rich -- rich@dynamite.org rich@FreeBSD.org.uk If that's what they call normal, I'd rather be insane To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 10:32: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6395714A15 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20373; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:31:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09676; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:31:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.3/8.6.9) id NAA20875; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:31:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:31:44 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199911221831.NAA20875@lakes.dignus.com> To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: XF86 sources? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1391.943291742@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > After the install is finished, I don't seem to be > > able to locate the XF86 sources on the installed > > machine. > > I sometimes have room to fit those on and sometimes not. I sort of > treat them as optional since the XFree86 port can be easily used to > fetch and build same. > > - Jordan > In general, I agree... But, as an isolated counter-example; I need to rebuild XF86 3.3.5 to test a fix for my particular setup. And, I'm not very connected to the net - so, I think "I'll just get the CDROMs - that's why I bought them..." But, then I'm surprised to find the source not there. I'm *not* advocating a change in what you do - I can easily understand, and my situation is not at all common... just thought I would explain my surprise. Perhaps if the sources are not on the CD, the install shouldn't present the user with an option to install them? - Just some thoughts - - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 11: 8:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from thoth.mch.sni.de (thoth.mch.sni.de [192.35.17.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C16B14F6E for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer thoth.mch.sni.de) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by thoth.mch.sni.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00762 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:08:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (curry.mchp.siemens.de [139.25.42.7]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01879 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:08:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07156 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:08:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:08:13 +0100 From: Andre Albsmeier To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Enhancement for lpr (maybe for STABLE-3.4) Message-ID: <19991122200813.A13352@internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A while ago I sent a PR containing an enhancement for lpr -r for the case that the file to be printed is on the same filesystem as lpd's spooling directory. The PR is bin/11997 and can be found at: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=11997 Maybe someone can look at it, review it and eventually commit it to -STABLE (and current, of course). The patch now runs nearly 2 years without problems and saves quite a lot of time when printing large temporay files. Thanks a lot, -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 11:19:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from netcom.com (netcom3.netcom.com [199.183.9.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A4515262 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:19:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stanb@netcom.com) Received: (from stanb@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29858 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: Stan Brown Message-Id: <199911221918.LAA29858@netcom.com> Subject: Ports cvsup versus cvsup-bin To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:18:35 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What's the difference between the cvsup and the cvsup-bin port? I can't tell from the package description files. I am hoping cvsup-bin, will get me a working cvsup without having to build all the modula-3 stuff etc. I am working on a very slow machine today, and I need to update, so I want the port that will build fastest. Thanks. -- Stan Brown stanb@netcom.com 404-996-6955 Factory Automation Systems Atlanta Ga. -- Look, look, see Windows 95. Buy, lemmings, buy! Pay no attention to that cliff ahead... Henry Spencer (c) 1998 Stan Brown. Redistribution via the Microsoft Network is prohibited. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 11:23: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 210D514CDF; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2E91CD7BC; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:22:58 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Stan Brown Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ports cvsup versus cvsup-bin In-Reply-To: <199911221918.LAA29858@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Stan Brown wrote: > What's the difference between the cvsup and the cvsup-bin port? I can't > tell from the package description files. > > I am hoping cvsup-bin, will get me a working cvsup without having to > build all the modula-3 stuff etc. I am working on a very slow machine > today, and I need to update, so I want the port that will build > fastest. Right. You could just install the package instead of the port if you don't want to have to compile things, too. Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 11:24:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 02F4914CDF; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7EA71CD7BC; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:24:48 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: "Sergey A. Ivanov" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BIND 8.2.2-P5 In-Reply-To: <0611.991122@pd.chel.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Sergey A. Ivanov wrote: > Hello! > > Last weekend i'm moved to new bind from 8.1.2 (as coming with > 3.0-R). Did you use the port, or compile it yourself? > And after upgrading to new bind i was noticed named eat too much CPU time > and produce great outgoing traffic to my ISP. And as long named > runnig, as much resources it eat. > Can anyone help me? Please... You'll need to provide more details. What process was eating the CPU? Was it functional? What does tcpdump show for the traffic it is generating? In short, what is actually wrong? Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 12: 0:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from logatome.micronet.fr (logatome-2.francenet.fr [193.149.96.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E4814F1D for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from e-masson@kisoft-services.com) Received: from kisoft-services.com (Rennes6.francenet.net [193.149.110.134]) by logatome.micronet.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11035; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:57:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <38399FEA.3720BF41@kisoft-services.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:56:26 +0100 From: Eric Masson Organization: Kisoft Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [fr] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stan Brown Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ports cvsup versus cvsup-bin References: <199911221918.LAA29858@netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Stan Brown a écrit : > >What's the difference between the cvsup and the cvsup-bin port? I can't >tell from the package description files. > >I am hoping cvsup-bin, will get me a working cvsup without having to >build all the modula-3 stuff etc. I am working on a very slow machine >today, and I need to update, so I want the port that will build >fastest. cvsup-bin is definitely the right choice, you get cvsup compiled and statically linked to Modula libraries. The port only installs binaries. Regards Eric Masson -- Any opinions expressed above | Murphy's Law Corollary : are my own, not Kisoft's | Murphy was an optimist. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 12:36: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038FC14CD0; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) id UAA65607; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:33:50 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:33:50 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Olaf Erb Cc: Udo Schweigert , Bill Fumerola , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i4b broken? Message-ID: <19991122203350.P97321@florence.pavilion.net> References: <19991121233304.A8761@erb.nu> <19991122070457.A42242@alaska.cert.siemens.de> <19991122141213.K97321@florence.pavilion.net> <19991122153423.B27628@insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <19991122153423.B27628@insl1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de> X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, Lees House, 21-23 Dyke Road, Brighton, England Phone: +44-845-333-5000 Fax: +44-845-333-5001 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 03:34:23PM +0100, Olaf Erb wrote: > On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 02:12:13PM +0000, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 07:04:58AM +0100, Udo Schweigert wrote: > > > > I've committed patches to fix this. They should be with your local cvsup server > > within the hour. > > Great, thanks. > Please let me know if it works (as well as if it doesn't!). Thanks, Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 13:49: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.gmx.net (mail2.gmx.net [194.221.183.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DA077159B5 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Gerhard.Sittig@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 32212 invoked by uid 0); 22 Nov 1999 20:33:58 -0000 Received: from p3e9e797a.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO speedy.gsinet) (62.158.121.122) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 1999 20:33:58 -0000 Received: (from sittig@localhost) by speedy.gsinet (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22316 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:03:26 +0100 Message-ID: <19991122200325.F19750@speedy.gsinet> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:03:25 +0100 From: Gerhard Sittig To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19991122080327.04d63510@granite.sentex.ca> <020b01bf34ee$aca1aa00$126b330a@CHIEF> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C020b01bf34ee$aca1aa00$126b330a=40CHIEF=3E=3B_from_S=F8?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ren_Klintrup_on_Mon=2C_Nov_22=2C_1999_at_02:36:48PM_+0100?= Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 14:36 +0100, S=F8ren Klintrup wrote: > There seems to be a problem with the length of the vmstat -i output > on my machine ... >=20 > there ain't enough room for the entire output .. (of total) >=20 > interrupt total rate > clk0 irq0 1393425598 99 > rtc0 irq8 1783597416 127 > fdc0 irq6 1 0 > wdc0 irq14 240062348 17 > ep0 irq5 53763994 3 > Total -824117939 -59 You might not be interested in the absolute values of these counters but more in the differences (i.e. growing rates) between two invocations of the stat program. This seems to be just like the collisions and errors counter values in the ifconfig output. > Is this going to be fixed ? I guess there's no need to fix something, it's not broken. I feel you don't care about the number of irqs in the past six months (I couldn't think of an application's use for these numbers). I think you want to know how much moves your system makes upon certain actions lasting for some minutes or hours (when causing heavy load of work or something). And this is what the counters are able to cope with. virtually yours - Gerhard Sittig --=20 If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 16:24:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4617D15923 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:24:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09801 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:51:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:51:23 -0800 (PST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: speaking of 3.4... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG two user-friendly mods we could use. -- one "should be easy" feature: sysinstall writing out an entry into /boot/loader.conf : root_disk_unit="where i installed freebsd" -questions is being _killed_ by people installing onto systems with 'holes' in thier IDE chains and getting snagged by unable to mount root. i'd do this myself but considering what adding amr to sysinstall did to me and my time constraints, well i can't. --and-- maybe not as easy... vm86 as a kld? (what's the point of VESA as a kld if it depends on VM86 which isn't?) or perhaps... what are people's feelings on this becoming a default for 3.4 or is it already? thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 16:45:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CB214CA5; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07715; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:44:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:44:15 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Kris Kennaway Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BIND 8.2.2-P5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running 8.2.2-P5 right out of the box from isc.org on 3.1-STABLE #0: Sun Apr 4 08:40:01 PDT 1999 and it works great. -c On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Sergey A. Ivanov wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > Last weekend i'm moved to new bind from 8.1.2 (as coming with > > 3.0-R). > > Did you use the port, or compile it yourself? > > > And after upgrading to new bind i was noticed named eat too much CPU time > > and produce great outgoing traffic to my ISP. And as long named > > runnig, as much resources it eat. > > Can anyone help me? Please... > > You'll need to provide more details. What process was eating the CPU? Was > it functional? What does tcpdump show for the traffic it is generating? > In short, what is actually wrong? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 17:20: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from amor.wcs.uq.edu.au (amor.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB96814CD4 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:19:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyr@amor.wcs.uq.edu.au) Received: (from garyr@localhost) by amor.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04325; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:15:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from garyr) From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199911230115.LAA04325@amor.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Desktop BSD (was Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware) In-Reply-To: from Aaron Sonntag at "Nov 21, 99 07:50:25 pm" To: aaron@sonntag.org (Aaron Sonntag) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:15:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Organisation: Well Control Australia Phone: +617 3844 0400 Fax: +617 3844 0444 Reply-To: garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au (Gary Roberts) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aaron Sonntag writes :- > I have just got to say it... the implementation of star office as a standard > freebsd port is very very important... > In the last two weeks alone three companies have asked me about running bsd > as a desktop system... and this decision was going to be based up on whether > start office could be easily implemented... > The workstation market can not be ignored... Everyone on this list knows how good FreeBSD is for the server market. Probably just as many would love it to become popular and usable as a desktop OS. Through the ports and packages systems, many useful apps are currently available and easy to install. Commercial apps are slowly becoming available. The key issue is that to *individually* road test all the apps one would like is quite a daunting task. From time to time, discussions do start which give people a good overview of strengths and weaknesses of particular products. Somebody has always had good or bad experiences and has spent time and effort in `evaluating' a particular product. How do we best `record for posterity' the work spent in determining if a particular app is suitable for the intended task? How can individuals best share (hopefully in an objective fashion) the results of their `evaluation' labour? Maybe something already exists? Anything that helps a `convert' to best replace the lost app functionality when switching from MS has got to be a `good thing' (TM). -- Gary Roberts To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 17:20:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (dynamic-117.max4-du-ws.dialnetwork.pavilion.co.uk [212.74.9.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5C614E99; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03399; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:17:05 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost.lan.Awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08149; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:22:00 GMT (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199911230122.BAA08149@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.0 09/18/1999 To: Nik Clayton Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: Anticipated release date for 3.4 In-Reply-To: Message from Nik Clayton of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:38:33 GMT." <19991117223833.A54887@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:22:00 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 10:21:20AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Will be December 15th. The traditional code slush will go into effect > > on the 1st. November would be an excellent month for merging your > > changes, after which I'll be exercising my usual perogative of > > inspecting all potential changes with a more jaundiced eye. :) > > My psychic powers are telling me that this information will find it's > way on to the front page of Slashdot in the near future. > > Any special fixes or new features I should be giving prominence to in the > write up? If it's not too late, I think PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet) is fairly important this time 'round (it'd better be important - I've had a number of up-till-5:30-work-at-7:30 nights over the last few weeks trying to iron out pppoed to prove that things work 100% !). Lots of ISPs are launching PPPoE and we want to be seen as a contender :-) > N > -- > If you want to imagine the future, imagine a tennis shoe stamping > on a penguin's face forever. > --- with apologies to George Orwell Hmm, barbecued penguin where the skewer has 3 prongs ? -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 18:13:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3832E14CA0 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:13:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03381; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:13:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:51:23 PST." Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:13:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3378.943323218@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > sysinstall writing out an entry into /boot/loader.conf : > > root_disk_unit="where i installed freebsd" Send diffs. I'm not sure how to figure this out from sysinstall in a meaningful way, myself. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 19:29:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE611528C for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27514 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:28:17 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA95159 for stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:28:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911230328.WAA95159@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-Reply-To: <62708.943219185@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 21, 1999 01:19:45 pm" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:23:35 -0500 (EST) X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" I guess another alternative is to go buy the Applixware CD from => freebsdmall.com. That's what I plan to do. As long as I know it won't => suffer from the same SMP-related issues as StarOffice. I don't know => who could confirm it'll be fine, but I'd like to hear from someone. = =Applixware works just fine under SMP. That's how I did all of the =testing, in fact. Speaking off... Where is it? I (pre-)ordered mine 2 months ago... I too plan to run it on an SMP (dual) -stable. -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 19:35:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBA6151F9 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:35:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27510 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:27:56 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA95147 for stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:27:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911230327.WAA95147@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware... In-Reply-To: <199911220113.SAA26592@freeway.dcfinc.com> from "Chad R. Larson" at "Nov 21, 1999 06:13:50 pm" To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:27:56 -0500 (EST) X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli"; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27570; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:51:00 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA95519; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:51:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911230351.WAA95519@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: How to determine IRQ usage? In-Reply-To: <19991122200325.F19750@speedy.gsinet> from Gerhard Sittig at "Nov 22, 1999 08:03:25 pm" To: Gerhard Sittig Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:51:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" there ain't enough room for the entire output .. (of total) => => interrupt total rate => clk0 irq0 1393425598 99 => rtc0 irq8 1783597416 127 => fdc0 irq6 1 0 => wdc0 irq14 240062348 17 => ep0 irq5 53763994 3 => Total -824117939 -59 = =You might not be interested in the absolute values of these counters =but more in the differences (i.e. growing rates) between two =invocations of the stat program. This seems to be just like the =collisions and errors counter values in the ifconfig output. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 20: 5:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D0A14A0E for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:05:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27602 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:04:20 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA95661 for stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:04:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911230404.XAA95661@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <3378.943323218@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 22, 1999 06:13:38 pm" To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:04:20 -0500 (EST) X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" sysinstall writing out an entry into /boot/loader.conf : => => root_disk_unit="where i installed freebsd" = =Send diffs. I'm not sure how to figure this out from sysinstall in a =meaningful way, myself. I upgraded my special someone's -stable from the summer's to Nov 1st and the thing does not boot. What used to be wd1 is now wd2. I tried to change the `config kernel root on wd2' -- did not seem to affect anything. Then I found root_disk_unit is the loader(8) and tried setting it. Now at the boot time, the kernel says (correctly) "switching to wd2s1a" and then hangs :(incorrectly); I was booting with `-v', so my attempts to Alt-Fk were echoed on the console, but the gettys never satrted... boot_askname did not have any effect (was it supposed to in the presence of root_disk_unit?). The subject of my attention was getting noticeably irritated, so I switched to kernel.old, fixed the fstab back to wd1 and booted... But I could not investigate further for a sensible PR... -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 20:21: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.uni-bielefeld.de (mail.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1728F14C2F; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bfischer@Techfak.uni-bielefeld.de) Received: from frolic.no-support.loc (ppp36-366.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de) by mail.uni-bielefeld.de (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FLM007KGUQ1HP@mail.uni-bielefeld.de>; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:20:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bjoern@localhost) by frolic.no-support.loc (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01326; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:20:09 +0100 (CET envelope-from bjoern) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:20:09 +0100 From: Bjoern Fischer Subject: stat(2) weirdness To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <19991123051328.A292@frolic.no-support.loc> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, recently while debugging a problem in wwwoffle-2.5b I realized, that stat(2) behaves at least extremely strange on 3.3-STABLE: This small example... #include #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char *fname =3D argv[0]; struct stat sb; int res =3D stat(argv[0], &sb); printf("filename : %s\n" \ "st_size : %d\n" \ "st_blocks : %d\n" \ "st_blksize : %d\n", fname, sb.st_size, sb.st_blocks, sb.st_blksize); return res; } would emerge this when run: filename : ./a.out st_size : 3342 st_blocks : 0 st_blksize : 8 Any idea why st_blocks is always zero? This can't be correct. st_blksize seems to be the number of blocks allocated for filename, although assuming a blocksize of 512 the object would fit into 7 blocks. Maybe that's the result of the underlying FFS's fsize (1024). Bj=F6rn --=20 -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS d--(+) s++: a- C+++(-) UB++++OSI++++$ P+++(-) L---(++) !E W- N+ o>+ K- !w !O !M !V PS++ PE- PGP++ t+++ !5 X++ tv- b+++ D++ G e+ h-- y+=20 ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 22 20:58:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1337514BE2; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76D71C6D; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:57:36 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Bjoern Fischer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stat(2) weirdness In-Reply-To: Message from Bjoern Fischer of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:20:09 +0100." <19991123051328.A292@frolic.no-support.loc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:57:36 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <19991123045736.C76D71C6D@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bjoern Fischer wrote: > Hello, > > recently while debugging a problem in wwwoffle-2.5b I realized, > that stat(2) behaves at least extremely strange on 3.3-STABLE: > > This small example... > > #include > #include > #include > > int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { > > char *fname = argv[0]; > struct stat sb; > int res = stat(argv[0], &sb); > > printf("filename : %s\n" \ > "st_size : %d\n" \ > "st_blocks : %d\n" \ > "st_blksize : %d\n", > fname, sb.st_size, sb.st_blocks, sb.st_blksize); > > return res; > > } > > would emerge this when run: > > filename : ./a.out > st_size : 3342 > st_blocks : 0 > st_blksize : 8 > > Any idea why st_blocks is always zero? This can't be correct. > st_blksize seems to be the number of blocks allocated for > filename, although assuming a blocksize of 512 the object > would fit into 7 blocks. Maybe that's the result of the > underlying FFS's fsize (1024). > > Björn > > -- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > GCS d--(+) s++: a- C+++(-) UB++++OSI++++$ P+++(-) L---(++) !E W- N+ o>+ > K- !w !O !M !V PS++ PE- PGP++ t+++ !5 X++ tv- b+++ D++ G e+ h-- y+ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message peter@overcee[12:55pm]/tmp-158> cc -Wall -o stat stat.c stat.c: In function `main': stat.c:15: warning: int format, different type arg (arg 3) stat.c:15: warning: int format, different type arg (arg 4) You are mixing int and 'long long' arg types. If it's fixed, eg: printf("filename : %s\n" \ "st_size : %lld\n" \ "st_blocks : %lld\n" \ "st_blksize : %d\n", fname, sb.st_size, sb.st_blocks, sb.st_blksize); Then: peter@overcee[12:56pm]/tmp-162> cc -Wall -o xx xx.c peter@overcee[12:56pm]/tmp-163> ./xx filename : ./xx st_size : 3522 st_blocks : 7 st_blksize : 4096 Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 1:43:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pluto.senet.com.au (pluto.senet.com.au [203.11.90.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244FF1537A for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:43:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from y2k@picknowl.com.au) Received: from the-toaster.gwork.org.au (c21-p6.senet.com.au [203.152.254.135]) by pluto.senet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28199 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:12:54 +1030 Received: from qman (the-fridge.gwork.org.au [192.168.252.2]) by the-toaster.gwork.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA00522 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:17:28 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from y2k@picknowl.com.au) Message-ID: <00c301bf3597$ac4b19c0$02fca8c0@qman> From: "Greg Work" To: Subject: Fw: BIND 8.2.2-P5 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:16:43 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Kris + others :) just thought i may be able to help - i had the same problem with named - for some reason whenever i connected to my isp, the modem went nuts sending so much traffic out to the 'net that the box became pretty much unusable - this was on a compile of 3.3-STABLE. Have a look at your /etc/namedb/named.conf - specifically : // If you've got a DNS server around at your upstream provider, enter // its IP address here, and enable the line below. This will make you // benefit from its cache, thus reduce overall DNS traffic in the Internet. forwarders { 203.11.90.1; 203.11.90.240; 127.0.0.1; }; From memory, the problem ended up coming from the forwarders line. If you place the localhost 127.0.0.1 entry above your ISP's this seems to occur. Make sure that you have the DNS server of your ISP ahead of localhost. Ive been using it like this for a few months with no problems Hope this helps G. Greg Work Email : Y2K@Picknowl.com.au ICQ : 15825191 ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Timmons To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:14 AM Subject: Re: BIND 8.2.2-P5 > > I'm running 8.2.2-P5 right out of the box from isc.org on > > 3.1-STABLE #0: Sun Apr 4 08:40:01 PDT 1999 > > and it works great. > > -c > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Sergey A. Ivanov wrote: > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > Last weekend i'm moved to new bind from 8.1.2 (as coming with > > > 3.0-R). > > > > Did you use the port, or compile it yourself? > > > > > And after upgrading to new bind i was noticed named eat too much CPU time > > > and produce great outgoing traffic to my ISP. And as long named > > > runnig, as much resources it eat. > > > Can anyone help me? Please... > > > > You'll need to provide more details. What process was eating the CPU? Was > > it functional? What does tcpdump show for the traffic it is generating? > > In short, what is actually wrong? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 1:56: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4515114BDD for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p09-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.138]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id SAA17980; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:55:45 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <383A5B8E.DF84AAA7@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:17:02 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <3378.943323218@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > sysinstall writing out an entry into /boot/loader.conf : > > > > root_disk_unit="where i installed freebsd" > > Send diffs. I'm not sure how to figure this out from sysinstall > in a meaningful way, myself. Precisely, that's why Mike is changing the way it is done on -current. 3.x-stable doesn't have that much of a lifetime remaining. I think it would be better wait 4.x-stable. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Then again maybe not going to heaven would be a blessing. Relkin liked a certain amount of peace and harmony, since there'd been a pronounced shortage of them in his own life; however, nothing but peace and harmony, forever and forever? He wasn't sure about that. And no beer? Very dubious proposition." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 3:26:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from node11a94.a2000.nl (node11a94.a2000.nl [24.132.26.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51CFD14BEC for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 03:26:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ronald@node11a94.a2000.nl) Received: (qmail 94000 invoked from network); 23 Nov 1999 11:26:34 -0000 Received: from dlanor.evertsen.nl (10.0.0.3) by node11a94.a2000.nl with SMTP; 23 Nov 1999 11:26:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:26:33 +0100 (CET) From: Ronald 'Ko' Klop To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Desktop BSD (was Re: StarOffice 5 on a SMP system..... or Applixware) In-Reply-To: <199911230115.LAA04325@amor.wcs.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Gary Roberts wrote: > Aaron Sonntag writes :- > > > I have just got to say it... the implementation of star office as a standard > > freebsd port is very very important... > > In the last two weeks alone three companies have asked me about running bsd > > as a desktop system... and this decision was going to be based up on whether > > start office could be easily implemented... > > The workstation market can not be ignored... > > Anything that helps a `convert' to best replace the lost app functionality > when switching from MS has got to be a `good thing' (TM). > Maybe the site http://www.bsdapps.org/ can help here. -- Ronald Klop http://node11a94.a2000.nl/~ronald/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 4:48:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from tricord.system.pl (tricord.system.pl [195.205.185.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DF614E4D for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 04:47:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from saper@system.pl) Received: from localhost (saper@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tricord.system.pl (SYSTEM Internet) with ESMTP id NAA23812 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:47:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:47:12 +0100 (MET) From: Marcin Cieslak To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd error In-Reply-To: <19991117211910.D316@marder-1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > Don't worry about > > Security check: INTRUDER ALERT! > > complete with several beeps either. That one tripped me up once :( Once I got caught by: Usage: fortune -P [] -a [xsz] [Q: [file]] [rKe9] -v6[+] dataspec ... inputdir Started to look for proper options in my *shrc file... -- << Marcin Cieslak // saper@system.pl >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- SYSTEM Internet Provider http://www.system.pl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 5:43: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45187150F8 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29822; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:42:52 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA98740; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:42:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911231342.IAA98740@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: Fw: BIND 8.2.2-P5 In-Reply-To: <00c301bf3597$ac4b19c0$02fca8c0@qman> from Greg Work at "Nov 23, 1999 08:16:43 pm" To: Greg Work Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:42:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" = = // If you've got a DNS server around at your upstream provider, enter = // its IP address here, and enable the line below. This will make you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ = // benefit from its cache, thus reduce overall DNS traffic in the Internet. = = forwarders { = 203.11.90.1; = 203.11.90.240; = 127.0.0.1; = }; = = = = From memory, the problem ended up coming from the forwarders line. If = you place the localhost 127.0.0.1 entry above your ISP's this seems to = occur. This seems VERY wrong. Why do you need 127.0.0.1 there at all? Unless you are running ANOTHER name-server on the localhost, this means, you are instructing named to talk to itself. The 127.0.0.1 goes in front of the ISP's servers in the /etc/resolv.conf -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 6:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from www.freebsdbox.com (www.freebsdbox.com [208.224.169.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DEA15128 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 06:47:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikes@www.freebsdbox.com) Received: (from mikes@localhost) by www.freebsdbox.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA08931 for stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:54:34 GMT (envelope-from mikes) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:54:34 GMT From: Mike Message-Id: <199911230854.IAA08931@www.freebsdbox.com> To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: error messages on console annoying Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all. I am continually getting messages on my console whenever someone checks their email. The error messages are this: Nov 22 20:15:53 www popper[8162]: @[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Too few a rguments for the auth command. Nov 22 23:00:09 www popper[8298]: mike@[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Unkno wn command: "xsender". and I got this message today which was a first, so if anyone can enlightent me to what it means and how to stop getting these messages from popper to broadcast on the console it would greatly be appreciated. thanks, mike please send a copy of your reply to mike@sprawlnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 6:57:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE14514BF4; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 06:57:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04628; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:56:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA19223; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:56:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991123095511.01d03100@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:55:11 -0500 To: mike@sprawlnet.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: error messages on console annoying Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199911230854.IAA08931@www.freebsdbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is more of a topic for questions. I am cc'ing it there, please follow up on that list. As to your question, man syslog.conf specifically, *.err;kern.debug;auth.notice;mail.crit /dev/console vs *.err;local0.none;kern.debug;auth.notice;mail.crit /dev/console At 08:54 AM 11/23/99 GMT, Mike wrote: >hi all. >I am continually getting messages on my console whenever someone checks their >email. The error messages are this: > >Nov 22 20:15:53 www popper[8162]: @[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Too >few a >rguments for the auth command. >Nov 22 23:00:09 www popper[8298]: mike@[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR >Unkno >wn command: "xsender". > >and I got this message today which was a first, so if anyone can enlightent me >to what it means and how to stop getting these messages from popper to broadcast on the console it would greatly be appreciated. > >thanks, >mike > >please send a copy of your reply to mike@sprawlnet.com > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 7: 0:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pawn.primelocation.net (pawn.primelocation.net [205.161.238.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B5D1514E for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdf.lists@fxp.org) Received: by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix, from userid 1016) id DA70D9B36; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE259BA21; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" X-Sender: cdf.lists@pawn.primelocation.net To: Mike Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: error messages on console annoying In-Reply-To: <199911230854.IAA08931@www.freebsdbox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Mike wrote: > hi all. > I am continually getting messages on my console whenever someone checks their > email. The error messages are this: > > Nov 22 20:15:53 www popper[8162]: @[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Too > few a > rguments for the auth command. > Nov 22 23:00:09 www popper[8298]: mike@[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR > Unkno > wn command: "xsender". > > and I got this message today which was a first, so if anyone can enlightent me > to what it means and how to stop getting these messages from popper to broadcast on the console it would greatly be appreciated. > The messages are caused by generally caused by Netscape's mail client; see qpopper's FAQ for more information. The reason you get the messages on the console is due to the way syslog is logging messages (see the /dev/console line in /etc/syslog.conf). ----- Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never System/Network Administrator, | claimed they were one, and always Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 7:54: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from jedi.sprawlnet.com (jedi.sprawlnet.com [208.224.169.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEE914BD7 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 07:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikes@jedi.sprawlnet.com) Received: by jedi.sprawlnet.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 4466E4ECC; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:51:30 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Steinfeld To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: error messages on console annoying Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:43:42 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99112305513000.02017@jedi> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry if i sent this to the wrong list but it was a stable box that it was happening on. and i edited syslog.conf to sent the message elsewhere. thanks. On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Chris D. Faulhaber wrote: > On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Mike wrote: > > > hi all. > > I am continually getting messages on my console whenever someone checks their > > email. The error messages are this: > > > > Nov 22 20:15:53 www popper[8162]: @[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Too > > few a > > rguments for the auth command. > > Nov 22 23:00:09 www popper[8298]: mike@[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR > > Unkno > > wn command: "xsender". > > > > and I got this message today which was a first, so if anyone can enlightent me > > to what it means and how to stop getting these messages from popper to broadcast on the console it would greatly be appreciated. > > > > The messages are caused by generally caused by Netscape's mail client; see > qpopper's FAQ for more information. > > The reason you get the messages on the console is due to the way syslog is > logging messages (see the /dev/console line in /etc/syslog.conf). > > ----- > Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never > System/Network Administrator, | claimed they were one, and always > Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 8:44:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [147.28.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1217C152EB for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from randy by rip.psg.com with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 11qJ2f-0005o7-00; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:43:45 -0800 From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Greg Troxel Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: wl0 lockups and box crashes References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:43:45 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been having trouble with 3.3-stable. I have a wl0. Also ahc0, > and usually ipfw. so far it seems that ipfw (combined with something > else) is the culprit; I've been up steadily for 8 days with moderate > activity (mail server, dns server, amanda backup server) on normal > stuff and also ospf running over wl0 the whole time. I believe that > the wl0 driver is somewhat timing-sensitive, or rather the card. So > something may be diddling the card too fast. If you found out what > was wrong, I'd like to hear it. I haven't figured out my problem yet. i have the problem with 3.3-stable an ah0 and no ipfw. it's a disaster. lock up within five minutes of using wl0. i did not have it in 4.0-current, where the wl0 driver is a bit different. but i can not run -current do to other bugs there. randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9: 1:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6E0150FE for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup423.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup423.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05249; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:59:35 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup423.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA51316; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:59:56 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Daniel C. Sobral" To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <3378.943323218@localhost> <383A5B8E.DF84AAA7@newsguy.com> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Daniel C. Sobral"'s message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:17:02 +0900" Date: 23 Nov 1999 18:58:04 +0200 Message-ID: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Daniel! On 23 Nov 99 at 11:17, "Daniel" (Daniel C Sobral) wrote: Daniel> 3.x-stable doesn't have that much of a lifetime remaining. I think Daniel> it would be better wait 4.x-stable. Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of following the releases. Surely enough, I do explain the real situation whenever possible. But how many are still thinking wrong way? How many users does FreeBSD lose because of revisions chapping and and changing? (We must remember that what seems normal for us is a black box for decent users.) While I myself appreciate transformation of 4.0 into -stable because of some useful features and changes I'm looking for, from general point of view wouldn't it be better and make lifetime of 3.x longer? Just an opinion... -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:12:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E47114A09 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com ([210.163.200.114]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id CAA17807; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:11:32 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <383ACA31.6B5E5BAA@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:09:05 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vadim Belman Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <3378.943323218@localhost> <383A5B8E.DF84AAA7@newsguy.com> <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Vadim Belman wrote: > > While I myself appreciate transformation of 4.0 into -stable > because of some useful features and changes I'm looking for, from > general point of view wouldn't it be better and make lifetime of > 3.x longer? Well, that's your users. The ones I know want new features. They can't have new features without new releases. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Then again maybe not going to heaven would be a blessing. Relkin liked a certain amount of peace and harmony, since there'd been a pronounced shortage of them in his own life; however, nothing but peace and harmony, forever and forever? He wasn't sure about that. And no beer? Very dubious proposition." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:18:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C2F1536C for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:18:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01801; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Vadim Belman Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "23 Nov 1999 18:58:04 +0200." <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:17:59 -0800 Message-ID: <1797.943377479@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > following the releases. We keep our -stable branches going for more than a year each time. In this industry, that's a geological age. I think the people you're talking to must have lost their sense of proportion. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:28:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (diarmadhi.mushhaven.net [63.75.111.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAE315020 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf@diarmadhi.mushhaven.net) Received: (from mistwolf@localhost) by diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA75754 for stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:26:36 -0800 From: Jamie Norwood To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Message-ID: <19991123092636.A47078@mushhaven.net> References: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> <1797.943377479@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <1797.943377479@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > following the releases. Then they are, really, people who are making their decisions with no regard to facts, which is not the problem of the FreeBSD programmers to fix. -stable is just that, stable. FreeBSD doesn't do a release every three months because it crashes if they don't, they do it because there are new features moved in that have been tested enough to be considered safe for a production environment. You can't have progress while not having releases to add the functionality. If the people you discuss cannot realise that, then either you need to correct them and explain why there are 'many' versions of FreeBSD, or else cater to their fears, insecurities, and rash judgements and install NT or Solaris, which have new 'versions' rarely, but have many patches to fix their problems. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:30:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pooh.elsevier.nl (pooh.elsevier.nl [145.36.9.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675A215377 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:30:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@pooh.elsevier.nl) Received: (from steve@localhost) by pooh.elsevier.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00838; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:30:12 GMT (envelope-from steve) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:30:12 -0000 (GMT) From: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" To: Vadim Belman Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Nov-1999 Vadim Belman wrote: > Hi Daniel! > > On 23 Nov 99 at 11:17, "Daniel" (Daniel C Sobral) wrote: > > Daniel> 3.x-stable doesn't have that much of a lifetime remaining. I think > Daniel> it would be better wait 4.x-stable. > > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is What do they think changes slowly enough ? > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > following the releases. I suggest pointing them at the example of yahoo (an uptime was posted here recently) as an indication that 'if you don't need the features you don't need to upgrade'. > While I myself appreciate transformation of 4.0 into -stable > because of some useful features and changes I'm looking for, from > general point of view wouldn't it be better and make lifetime of > 3.x longer? I rather expect that just as 2.x lasted well past the introduction of 3-stable so will 3.x outlast the start of 4-stable. ------------------------------------------------------- Tell a computer to WIN and ... ... You lose ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:34:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AE215020 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06709; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:32:47 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA59849; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:32:49 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Daniel C. Sobral" To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <3378.943323218@localhost> <383A5B8E.DF84AAA7@newsguy.com> <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> <383ACA31.6B5E5BAA@newsguy.com> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Daniel C. Sobral"'s message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:09:05 +0900" Date: 23 Nov 1999 19:31:42 +0200 Message-ID: <85u2mdunb5.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Daniel! On 23 Nov 99 at 19:09, "Daniel" (Daniel C Sobral) wrote: >> While I myself appreciate transformation of 4.0 into -stable because >> of some useful features and changes I'm looking for, from general point >> of view wouldn't it be better and make lifetime of 3.x longer? Daniel> Well, that's your users. The ones I know want new features. They Daniel> can't have new features without new releases. "Who wants features uses Windows or Linux." 8) (The source of sentence has been forgotten.) They aren't my users. Mostly they need a stable server or a developer's desktop platform. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:50:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D11314BF4 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:50:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29461 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:50:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16928 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:50:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991123124841.01899ad0@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:48:41 -0500 To: stable@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> References: <"Daniel C. Sobral"'s message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:17:02 +0900"> <3378.943323218@localhost> <383A5B8E.DF84AAA7@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:58 PM 11/23/99 +0200, Vadim Belman wrote: > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > following the releases. > > Surely enough, I do explain the real situation whenever > possible. But how many are still thinking wrong way? How many users > does FreeBSD lose because of revisions chapping and and changing? > (We must remember that what seems normal for us is a black box for > decent users.) Well, I am sure there are people out there using NT4.0 without any service packs (let alone hot fixes), or security hole infested applications (e.g. root exploitable qpoopper). That sort of attitude is a problem when approaching any OS. FreeBSD 2.x and 3.x has been the most stable platform we use here period. If your customers/users are worried about the oh so many releases, tell them there is only one release. 3.[1-4] are 4 service packs to FreeBSD 3. Wait, that term might tarnish the good name of FreeBSD! Here is one of our internal servers % uptime 12:45PM up 526 days, 5:39, 3 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 9:54:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BDE14ED7 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07392; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:53:52 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA64846; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:54:11 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <1797.943377479@localhost> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:17:59 -0800" Date: 23 Nov 1999 19:52:11 +0200 Message-ID: <85pux1umcz.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Jordan! On 23 Nov 99 at 19:17, "Jordan" (Jordan K Hubbard) wrote: >> Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for their >> needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is a sign of >> bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of following the >> releases. Jordan> We keep our -stable branches going for more than a year each time. Jordan> In this industry, that's a geological age. I think the people Jordan> you're talking to must have lost their sense of proportion. I can agree. Even more: I do agree. But we must consider the fact that the first release in 3.x, which is recommended for production puropses, was 3.2 (don't mean official recommendations here 8). And that was also the time when really massive switching from 2.x to 3.x was taking place. I would count this as the start point and give about a year for the branch. And I agree with 'proprtions' issue too. I'm trying to correct this. But, perhaps, a considerable compromise would pay some benefit to FreeBSD? -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10: 6:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72A014C3D for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:06:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02053; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Vadim Belman Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Daniel C. Sobral" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "23 Nov 1999 19:52:11 +0200." <85pux1umcz.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: <2049.943380341@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And I agree with 'proprtions' issue too. I'm trying to correct > this. But, perhaps, a considerable compromise would pay some > benefit to FreeBSD? I don't see how. Most of our customers demand more releases more frequently, not less. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10: 7:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDCA150E0 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07874; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:06:20 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA67486; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:06:06 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: Jamie Norwood To: Jamie Norwood Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> <1797.943377479@localhost> <19991123092636.A47078@mushhaven.net> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: Jamie Norwood's message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:26:36 -0800" Date: 23 Nov 1999 20:03:04 +0200 Message-ID: <85ln7puluv.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 41 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Jamie! On 23 Nov 99 at 19:26, "Jamie" (Jamie Norwood) wrote: >> Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for their >> needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is a sign of >> bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of following the >> releases. Jamie> Then they are, really, people who are making their decisions with Jamie> no regard to facts, which is not the problem of the FreeBSD You know, this is we who reads the list, who follows the branch on their desktops, who knows real problems, etc. But if you take a decent admin who merely must choose a server and who knows nothing but superficial facts including pace of release production - what do you think he will decide? Jamie> programmers to fix. -stable is just that, stable. FreeBSD doesn't Jamie> do a release every three months because it crashes if they don't, Jamie> they do it because there are new features moved in that have been Jamie> tested enough to be considered safe for a production Jamie> environment. You can't have progress while not having releases to Jamie> add the functionality. If the people you discuss cannot realise Jamie> that, then either you need to correct them and explain why there I do it as it was told in the original message. Still, we cannot be everywhere and talk with everybody. Perhaps, there should be something easily reachable about it on the official web site? Jamie> are 'many' versions of FreeBSD, or else cater to their fears, Jamie> insecurities, and rash judgements and install NT or Solaris, which Jamie> have new 'versions' rarely, but have many patches to fix their Jamie> problems. Yeah, right. In two cases being known to me Solaris was choosen. Actually, they are satisfied. 8) -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:15:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9027815161 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:15:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32369; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25134; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991123131334.009974c0@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:13:34 -0500 To: Vadim Belman From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <85ln7puluv.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> References: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> <1797.943377479@localhost> <19991123092636.A47078@mushhaven.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:03 PM 11/23/99 +0200, Vadim Belman wrote: > But if you take a decent admin who merely must choose a server and > who knows nothing but superficial facts including pace of release > production - what do you think he will decide? If the decision is based on superficial facts, then you will arrive at a superficial decision. ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:15:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from main.apex.dp.ua (main.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778601535A for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by main.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA60084; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:17:29 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA70381; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:15:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith"'s message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:30:12 -0000 (GMT)" Date: 23 Nov 1999 20:14:50 +0200 Message-ID: <85g0xxulb9.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Steve! On 23 Nov 99 at 19:30, "Steve" (Steve O'Hara-Smith) wrote: >> Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for >> their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is Steve> What do they think changes slowly enough ? This is not statistically correct to derive it from a single person answers. 8) So, I won't do it. 8) >> a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of >> following the releases. Steve> I suggest pointing them at the example of yahoo (an uptime Steve> was posted here recently) as an indication that 'if you don't need Steve> the features you don't need to upgrade'. This is exactly what I say! BSD'ers are too similar to each other when it is going about such questions. >> While I myself appreciate transformation of 4.0 into -stable because of >> some useful features and changes I'm looking for, from general point of >> view wouldn't it be better and make lifetime of 3.x longer? Steve> I rather expect that just as 2.x lasted well past the Steve> introduction of 3-stable so will 3.x outlast the start of 4-stable. It definitely will. Same time, lots of people miss this point. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:20:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from misha.cisco.com (misha.cisco.com [171.69.206.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A43D1536C for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@misha.cisco.com) Received: (from mi@localhost) by misha.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA22236 for stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:18:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi) Message-Id: <199911231818.NAA22236@misha.cisco.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <1797.943377479@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 23, 1999 09:17:59 am" To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:18:57 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com From: Mikhail Teterin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard once wrote: > > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > > following the releases. > > We keep our -stable branches going for more than a year each time. In > this industry, that's a geological age. I think the people you're > talking to must have lost their sense of proportion. The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should be eliminated... FWIW, I installed NT on a SCSI Jazz drive on the otherwise IDE machine. And it rebooted fine and continues to behave (well as much as one can expect from Windoz). -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:21:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862F614A04 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA76720; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:20:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:20:19 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <2049.943380341@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > And I agree with 'proprtions' issue too. I'm trying to correct > > this. But, perhaps, a considerable compromise would pay some > > benefit to FreeBSD? > > I don't see how. Most of our customers demand more releases more > frequently, not less. When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a problem. People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:28: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles555.castles.com [208.214.165.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05BD153C2 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:27:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01017; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911231817.KAA01017@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: mi@aldan.algebra.com Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:18:57 EST." <199911231818.NAA22236@misha.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:17:23 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Jordan K. Hubbard once wrote: > > > > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > > > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > > > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > > > following the releases. > > > > We keep our -stable branches going for more than a year each time. In > > this industry, that's a geological age. I think the people you're > > talking to must have lost their sense of proportion. > > The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should be > eliminated... The only way to guarantee this is to cause the install to fail unless the installation program can be 100% certain of the bootability of the install. Given that a number of crucial factors in this equation are unknown to the installer, this would result in a lot of otherwise successful installs being aborted due to uncertainty. I don't consider that particularly desirable. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:28:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2B3153B8 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:28:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA34058; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:28:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA29455; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:28:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991123132634.00ba7100@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:26:34 -0500 To: Doug White From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <2049.943380341@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the >release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting >it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes >or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. But Apple charges big bucks (relative to the cost for FreeBSD) for new releases-- so it better be right! You can download the FreeBSD release for free. I dont think 4 per year is too much considering the design philosophy of FreeBSD. Especially when contrasted to commercial operating systems. ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:30:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from main.apex.dp.ua (main.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8714414F04 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by main.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA60486; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:31:52 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA73432; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:29:41 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <2049.943380341@localhost> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:05:41 -0800" Date: 23 Nov 1999 20:27:23 +0200 Message-ID: <85bt8lukqc.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Jordan! On 23 Nov 99 at 20:05, "Jordan" (Jordan K Hubbard) wrote: >> And I agree with 'proprtions' issue too. I'm trying to correct >> this. But, perhaps, a considerable compromise would pay some benefit to >> FreeBSD? Jordan> I don't see how. Most of our customers demand more releases more Jordan> frequently, not less. Ok, seems like we have a basic principle of democracy here: the majority decides. And while I myself isn't worried about releases as such (cvsup makes this anxiety obsolete 8), new features are welcome. But you say about customers here. What about the community? Is it counted as a subset of "customers"? -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:34:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC4F14C8D for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02194; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Doug White Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:20:19 PST." Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:34:45 -0800 Message-ID: <2190.943382085@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release candidate for that month. I generally get absolutely no feedback at all until 2 days before the release goes "gold" and then a lot more feedback about a week after. They always start the same way, too "Sorry I didn't have time to tell you this before, but..." :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:36: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D722A15098 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02210; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:35:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: mi@aldan.algebra.com Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:18:57 EST." <199911231818.NAA22236@misha.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:35:44 -0800 Message-ID: <2207.943382144@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should be > eliminated... If simple statements like this were capable of fixing the problem, it would have been fixed long ago. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:36:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4507E153E3 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:36:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02223; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:36:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Vadim Belman Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Daniel C. Sobral" , Alfred Perlstein , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "23 Nov 1999 20:27:23 +0200." <85bt8lukqc.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:36:21 -0800 Message-ID: <2220.943382181@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But you say about customers here. What about the community? Is it > counted as a subset of "customers"? I should probably have put it in quotes. The community are our customers, in a manner of speaking. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:41: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from best.llama.com (llama.com [63.194.69.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADBAA150DB for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from the@llama.com) Received: from localhost (the@localhost) by best.llama.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA60616 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from the@llama.com) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Habash To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a > problem. People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. People want new releases to add functionality. Bugfixes happen constantly, that's the whole point to tracking -STABLE and being on this mailing list. > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes > or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. Maybe Apple can loan the FreeBSD project some QA engineers then. I hear they work for daemon decals in lieu of the many tens of thousands of dollars a year they otherwise tend to ask for, qualified or unqualified, EACH. But you raise a good point: are there people tasked with doing QA work, or are we relying on users to submit PRs? I've always assumed the latter procedure was what was occuring, if not by design, then by necessity. FreeBSD has a different paradigm for releasing its software than commercial concerns, with attendant strengths and weaknesses. I don't really have the knowledge to disagree with your point, but the flip side of your aregument is that going a *month* with *no changes at all* may be unacceptable to the goal of maintaining a -STABLE (if not stable) release. --Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:47: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from techpower.net (techpower.net [205.133.231.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAEE15A25 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hometeam@techpower.net) Received: from localhost (hometeam@localhost) by techpower.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07982; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:47:48 GMT (envelope-from hometeam@techpower.net) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:47:48 +0000 (GMT) From: hometeam To: Doug White Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I agree with Doug I would like to see more quality not quantity, and updates on prg..like pppd , We are at 2.3.5 and releases are at 2.3.10 . On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Doug White wrote: > On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > And I agree with 'proprtions' issue too. I'm trying to correct > > > this. But, perhaps, a considerable compromise would pay some > > > benefit to FreeBSD? > > > > I don't see how. Most of our customers demand more releases more > > frequently, not less. > > When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a > problem. People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes > or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. > > Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve > dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 10:52:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from misha.cisco.com (misha.cisco.com [171.69.206.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E89514A19 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@misha.cisco.com) Received: (from mi@localhost) by misha.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA22406; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:51:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi) Message-Id: <199911231851.NAA22406@misha.cisco.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911231817.KAA01017@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Nov 23, 1999 10:17:23 am" To: Mike Smith Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:51:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com From: Mikhail Teterin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith once wrote: > > The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should > > be eliminated... > The only way to guarantee this is to cause the install to fail unless > the installation program can be 100% certain of the bootability of the > install. You know, a very similar answer was given to me a couple of years ago on this very forum (may be on -current). Back then, the inability to detect over 64Mb of RAM was the issue. Both problems are related to the majority of PC BIOSes' brain damage, but somehow other operating systems manage to work around the said damage. I don't know if it is the installer or the kernel's root-device seeker (or both), that need to be made even smarter, but something needs to be done. Of course, the statements like this do not solve the problems. But they put them into spotlight... Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were only using 64Mb... -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11: 1:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 512B0150CC; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:01:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388491CD76D; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:01:18 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: hometeam Cc: Doug White , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pppd (Re: speaking of 3.4... ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, hometeam wrote: > I agree with Doug > I would like to see more quality not quantity, and updates on prg..like > pppd , We are at 2.3.5 and releases are at 2.3.10 . Well, I'm not gainsaying the fact that an update to pppd would be nice, but do you need it? i.e. are there bugs in 2.3.5, or features in 2.3.10 which you really need? An update is something I have on my plate here when I get my machine fully back on the net, but I doubt it would be prudent to stuff it in just before 3.4 anyway (2.3.5 seems to work pretty well). Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:16:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B603152CA for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02001; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:14:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Message-Id: <199911231914.OAA02001@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: from Sam Habash at "Nov 23, 1999 10:41: 0 am" To: the@llama.com (Sam Habash) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:14:59 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: mwlucas@gltg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But you raise a good point: are there people tasked with doing > QA work, or are we relying on users to submit PRs? I've always assumed > the latter procedure was what was occuring, if not by design, then by > necessity. (I use "we" below to mean "the FreeBSD community"; I use FreeBSD, and write articles about it, but I by no means speak for anyone with any decision-making power.) Having tracked FreeBSD since '95, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that there is no "dedicated QA" person. Jordan is the "release coordinator", which seems to be equivalent to "scapegoat" in this context. The various committers are held responsible for the quality of their work. As a regular reader of cvs-all, I can assure you that developers are quick to step on other people's bogons. ;) If you, or anyone, has any bright ideas on what a FreeBSD QA engineer would do, I'm sure people would be all ears. But with the FreeBSD development process, we certainly can't hold the tree still for a month. And while I don't work for Walnut Creek, I feel fairly safe saying that they don't have the financial resources to test each release on every piece of hardware out there. This leaves send-pr, and snooping through -stable and -questions. If we want to increase the quality of our releases, we need to increase the number of high-quality of PRs we receive. We need to publicize the procedure for making the ideal pr, and the importance of doing so. Hmmm... anyone know a magazine that would be interested in a send-pr article? My usual market isn't. ==ml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:18:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from techpower.net (techpower.net [205.133.231.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03476152CA; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:18:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hometeam@techpower.net) Received: from localhost (hometeam@localhost) by techpower.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08128; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:20:08 GMT (envelope-from hometeam@techpower.net) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:20:08 +0000 (GMT) From: hometeam To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Doug White , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pppd (Re: speaking of 3.4... ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I feel most of the time bug fixes are in newer releases...I like the stable branch it works well for me...I get souce updates nitely , once a month update the bins.....Maybe jumping up to 2.3.6 would be jumping the gun unless it was a major hole in the prior version . I just think 3.3 stable is no differant except for the version number. but pppd 2.3.10 is 5 versions away from us. maybe port it like named. On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, hometeam wrote: > > > I agree with Doug > > I would like to see more quality not quantity, and updates on prg..like > > pppd , We are at 2.3.5 and releases are at 2.3.10 . > > Well, I'm not gainsaying the fact that an update to pppd would be nice, > but do you need it? i.e. are there bugs in 2.3.5, or features in 2.3.10 > which you really need? > > An update is something I have on my plate here when I get my machine fully > back on the net, but I doubt it would be prudent to stuff it in just > before 3.4 anyway (2.3.5 seems to work pretty well). > > Kris > > ---- > Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of > two evils.. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:38: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 5CD7515378; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:38:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EAD81CD433; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:38:03 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: hometeam Cc: Doug White , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pppd (Re: speaking of 3.4... ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, hometeam wrote: > I feel most of the time bug fixes are in newer releases...I like the > stable branch it works well for me...I get souce updates nitely , once > a month update the bins.....Maybe jumping up to 2.3.6 would be > jumping the gun unless it was a major hole in the prior version . > > I just think 3.3 stable is no differant except for the version number. > but pppd 2.3.10 is 5 versions away from us. maybe port it like named. Most of the changes are linux-specific, since that's all they have for ppp. There are a few extra features, but I don't think there have been many freebsd-applicable bugfixes. Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:42:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC2415374 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:42:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11336; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:39:51 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA84007; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:10:30 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: Sam Habash To: Sam Habash Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: Sam Habash's message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 -0800 (PST)" Date: 23 Nov 1999 21:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <85yabpt462.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Sam! On 23 Nov 99 at 20:41, "Sam" (Sam Habash) wrote: >> When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a problem. >> People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. Sam> People want new releases to add functionality. Bugfixes happen Which people? IMO, this is a matter of balancing between two kind of expectations. Some people think of new releases in terms of bugfixes, others - in terms of new features. It's not possible to satisfy both sides, but preaching is always possible. 8) -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:42:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E641537C for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:42:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11441; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:40:35 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA84007; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:10:30 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: Sam Habash To: Sam Habash Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: Sam Habash's message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 -0800 (PST)" Date: 23 Nov 1999 21:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <85yabpt462.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Sam! On 23 Nov 99 at 20:41, "Sam" (Sam Habash) wrote: >> When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a problem. >> People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. Sam> People want new releases to add functionality. Bugfixes happen Which people? IMO, this is a matter of balancing between two kind of expectations. Some people think of new releases in terms of bugfixes, others - in terms of new features. It's not possible to satisfy both sides, but preaching is always possible. 8) -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:48:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dozer.skynet.be (dozer.skynet.be [195.238.2.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C5315383 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@foxbert.skynet.be) Received: from foxbert.skynet.be (foxbert.skynet.be [195.238.1.45]) by dozer.skynet.be (8.9.3/odie-relay-v1.0) with ESMTP id UAA04751; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:47:42 +0100 (MET) Received: (from root@localhost) by foxbert.skynet.be (8.9.1/jovi-pop-2.1) id UAA24504; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:47:29 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@foxbert.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199911231851.NAA22406@misha.cisco.com> References: <199911231851.NAA22406@misha.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:30:39 +0100 To: mi@aldan.algebra.com, Mike Smith From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:51 PM -0500 1999/11/23, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The > 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked > FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were > only using 64Mb... You mean this problem has actually been fixed? Can I remove the MAXMEM definitions on the kernel configurations for my Dell PowerEdge 1300 servers? Cool! -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ____________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:51:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591B4152DD for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:51:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02228; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:50:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Message-Id: <199911231950.OAA02228@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: from Brad Knowles at "Nov 23, 1999 8:30:39 pm" To: blk@skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:50:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org From: mwlucas@gltg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 1:51 PM -0500 1999/11/23, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > > > Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The > > 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked > > FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were > > only using 64Mb... > > You mean this problem has actually been fixed? Can I remove the > MAXMEM definitions on the kernel configurations for my Dell PowerEdge > 1300 servers? Probably. Try it on one and see. ==ml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:55:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A52151C4 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11899; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:54:11 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA93903; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:50:55 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: mwlucas@gltg.com To: mwlucas@gltg.com Cc: the@llama.com (Sam Habash), stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <199911231914.OAA02001@blackhelicopters.org> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: mwlucas@gltg.com's message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:14:59 -0500 (EST)" Date: 23 Nov 1999 21:50:55 +0200 Message-ID: <85ln7pt2ao.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi mwlucas! On 23 Nov 99 at 21:14, "mwlucas" (mwlucas ) wrote: mwlucas> Hmmm... anyone know a magazine that would be interested in a mwlucas> send-pr article? My usual market isn't. I think I have one. But it's in russian and... Well, this is a topic for advocacy list. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:55:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from misha.cisco.com (misha.cisco.com [171.69.206.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399FB14A0D for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@misha.cisco.com) Received: (from mi@localhost) by misha.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA27377; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:55:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi) Message-Id: <199911231955.OAA27377@misha.cisco.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: from Brad Knowles at "Nov 23, 1999 08:30:39 pm" To: Brad Knowles Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:55:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com From: Mikhail Teterin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brad Knowles once wrote: > At 1:51 PM -0500 1999/11/23, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > > > Then, may be, that's not what's needed? > > The 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine > > benchmarked FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked > > because we were only using 64Mb... > > You mean this problem has actually been fixed? Can I remove the > MAXMEM definitions on the kernel configurations for my Dell PowerEdge > 1300 servers? YMMV, but I did not need to specify anything after bumping my NEC Powermate to 320Mb of RAM. -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 11:58:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mixt.apex.dp.ua (mixt.apex.dp.ua [195.24.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153EC14F04; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@dialup331.apex.dp.ua) Received: from dialup331.apex.dp.ua (dialup331.apex.dp.ua [195.24.155.31]) by mixt.apex.dp.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11993; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:57:12 +0200 (EET) Received: (from voland@localhost) by dialup331.apex.dp.ua (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA95518; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:57:33 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: Kris Kennaway To: Kris Kennaway Cc: hometeam , Doug White , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pppd (Re: speaking of 3.4... ) References: From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: Kris Kennaway's message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:38:03 -0800 (PST)" Date: 23 Nov 1999 21:57:31 +0200 Message-ID: <85hfidt1zo.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Kris! On 23 Nov 99 at 21:38, "Kris" (Kris Kennaway) wrote: Kris> Most of the changes are linux-specific, since that's all they have Kris> for ppp. There are a few extra features, but I don't think there Kris> have been many freebsd-applicable bugfixes. What makes pppd more preferable than the standard ppp? From my point of view, they are rather equal in most cases. -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 12: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E201C153BA for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA84816; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:06:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:06:53 -0500 (EST) From: jack To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <2190.943382085@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Today Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > > The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release > candidate for that month. Apple also has a much better idea of what hardware it will be installed on, and doesn't have to contend with the multitude of (non)standards for PC hardware. It would probably take years to test every possible need of various services (heavy HTTP server, ftp, etc.) against all the permutations of available hardware. I've got over a dozen boxes that are just fine with dangerously dedicated disks and one that needs the boot loader tweaked even with a non-dedicated disk. I see that as a funky BIOS, not as FreeBSD being broken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 12:13:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9135B1538B for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.1b+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id VAA17936; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:11:20 +0100 (MET) Received: from sziszi by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu with local-smtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11qM3V-0000lb-00; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:56:49 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:56:49 +0100 (CET) From: Adam Szilveszter To: Brad Knowles Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 1:51 PM -0500 1999/11/23, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > > > Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The > > 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked > > FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were > > only using 64Mb... > > You mean this problem has actually been fixed? Can I remove the > MAXMEM definitions on the kernel configurations for my Dell PowerEdge > 1300 servers? > > Cool! Hi! I do not know for sure but I think it still exists on 3.x... at least many people reported about it even recently... I only have 64M, and that amount is detected (as it should). Cheers! Szilveszter ADAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Adam Szilveszter * JATE Szeged * email: sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu * * Homepage : none * alternate email: cc@flanker.itl.net.ua * * Finger sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu for PGP key. * * I prefer using the door instead of Windows(tm)... * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 12:39:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id CE35F153DB; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC3A1CD776; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:39:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Vadim Belman Cc: hometeam , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pppd (Re: speaking of 3.4... ) In-Reply-To: <85hfidt1zo.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23 Nov 1999, Vadim Belman wrote: > Kris> Most of the changes are linux-specific, since that's all they have > Kris> for ppp. There are a few extra features, but I don't think there > Kris> have been many freebsd-applicable bugfixes. > > What makes pppd more preferable than the standard ppp? From my > point of view, they are rather equal in most cases. The only things I can think of are: 1) if you have a bunch of {Linux|Solaris|...} machines (for which pppd is the only (at least, only one I know of) free ppp implementation), so you don't have to learn a new syntax. 2) Better (or at least, deterministic) latency on packets, since they don't leave the kernel (as with user-mode ppp). I don't know how much of an effect this is, but it's not likely to be significant for most people. user-mode ppp (i.e. ppp(8)) is definitely the way to go in freebsd, all other things being equal. It's well supported, has more features, and is actively developed. Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 15:24:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from puffer.quadrunner.com (puffer.quadrunner.com [205.166.195.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654BE15470 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from manek@quadrunner.com) Received: from after (root@puffer.quadrunner.com [205.166.195.4]) by puffer.quadrunner.com (8.9.2/QUAD-2.1) with SMTP id PAA03254; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:23:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Sameer R. Manek" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Vadim Belman" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , "Alfred Perlstein" , Subject: RE: speaking of 3.4... Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:25:20 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1797.943377479@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jordan K. = Hubbard >=20 > > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > > following the releases. >=20 > We keep our -stable branches going for more than a year each time. > In this industry, that's a geological age. I think the people > you're talking to must have lost their sense of proportion. >=20 I think FreeBSD has kept a reasonable product lifecycle, granted the = 2.x.x product life cycle ran a lot longer, but that was a different = market compared to the market that 3.x and 4.x will exist in. If = anything the FreeBSD developers should be applauded for not having the = kernel/os of the day syndrome. mike@sentex.net recently posted an uptime of 526 days, that suggests = that it hasn't been upgraded to 3.x yet. Just because the new version is = out, doesn't mean it needs an upgrade. You need to evaluate your systems = needs, and compare it with the features available in the next release. Sameer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 16:33:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.sentex.ca (sand2.sentex.ca [209.167.248.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47ED15498 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:33:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from gravel (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by sand2.sentex.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA21640; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:32:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <4.1.19991123192116.0479ed80@granite.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtancsa@granite.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:32:01 -0500 To: "Sameer R. Manek" From: Mike Tancsa Subject: RE: speaking of 3.4... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <1797.943377479@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:25 PM 11/23/99 , Sameer R. Manek wrote: >mike@sentex.net recently posted an uptime of 526 days, that suggests that it >hasn't been upgraded to 3.x yet. Just because the new version is out, >doesn't mean it needs an upgrade. You need to evaluate your systems needs, >and compare it with the features available in the next release. Yup, the box is an internal access machine only, so I am not too concerned about the TCP/IP vulnerabilities. If there were not a 1 day power outage 526days ago, it would have been up since July 4th 1997 when I installed it. % uname -v FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE #0: Fri Jul 4 18:08:31 EDT 1997 I have kept the necessary user applications upto date over the past year and a half, but obviously never needed to reboot it. The machine does its chores, and does them well. I really dont have to touch it at all. The only thing we are concerned about is the disk drive which I imagine will eventually fail. Sadly, we plan to take it down over Christmas and pop a fresh 3.x STABLE image on it. wd0: 2015MB (4127760 sectors), 4095 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S At the time, it used to be a good sized drive! ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa, Network Admin * mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications Corp, * http://www.sentex.net/mike Cambridge, Ontario * 519 651 3400 Canada * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 16:39:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893C114A1E for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:39:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02627; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199911240039.RAA02627@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <85903pw3fn.fsf@lflat.dp.ua> from Vadim Belman at "Nov 23, 99 06:58:04 pm" To: voland@plab.ku.dk (Vadim Belman) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:39:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, bright@wintelcom.net, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Vadim Belman wrote: > Hm, I know few people who think twice before choosing FreeBSD for > their needs. They think versions change too fast. For some this is > a sign of bad stability (heh...) others just scared of necessity of > following the releases. Well, I suppose it depends in part on how necessary you think following releases is. My main server is running 2.1-STABLE, the rest of my machines are 2.2-STABLE. I've followed the security patches in BIND and sendmail, but there's nothing they need to do they can't do as configured. Trailing edge is good in production. My 3.3-RELEASE CDs are still shrink wrapped, though I was planning to fire them up on a test box over the long Thanksgiving holiday. I just saw too many "I upgraded my 2.2 box to 3.2, and now I'm having these crashes" messages on this list to jump in. Now, where I work we have some 3.2 machines that are running fine. So don't take this as an indictment, just my personal quirk perhaps. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 16:40:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from misha.cisco.com (misha.cisco.com [171.69.206.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F951500D for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@misha.cisco.com) Received: (from mi@localhost) by misha.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA28663 for stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:40:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi) Message-Id: <199911240040.TAA28663@misha.cisco.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991123192116.0479ed80@granite.sentex.ca> from Mike Tancsa at "Nov 23, 1999 07:32:01 pm" To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:40:47 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com From: Mikhail Teterin X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Tancsa once wrote: > I have kept the necessary user applications upto date over the past > year and a half, but obviously never needed to reboot it. The machine > does its chores, and does them well. I really dont have to touch it at > all. The only thing we are concerned about is the disk drive which I > imagine will eventually fail. Yes, this is what brought down our web-server (also 2.2-stable) after 400+ days of uptime. The disk started to report strange errors... -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 17:53:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D487153CB for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from rwwa.com (molasses.rwwa.com [192.124.97.13]) by rwwa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA45302; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:57:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199911240157.UAA45302@rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:34:45 PST." <2190.943382085@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:52:47 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jkh@zippy.cdrom.com said: := I generally get absolutely no feedback at all until 2 days before the := release goes "gold" and then a lot more feedback about a week after. := They always start the same way, too "Sorry I didn't have time to tell := you this before, but..." :-) Being one of the people who has done this (more than once) to Jordan, I can speak with some authority. ;-) What *would* improve *my* ability (and I suspect the ability of others) to get back timely QA feedback on a candidate release would be a reliable release schedule. In my case it takes a week or two to free up a machine, and free up the time, to take a day or two to wring out a release. If releases are announced to happen two weeks hence, guess what? I miss the window. Now I've been in the software business for nearly 30 years, so I know that the phrase "reliable release schedule" is nearly a contradiction in terms. Still, if we could settle down to a quarterly or thirdly (?) release schedule, with more-or-less fixed dates for code-freeze and release-cutting, I could plan that into my schedule (or even get one of my people) to test the release. If there were a schedule and no more than 4 releases a year, I could mostly do that. [Of course, recent 3.X releases have become so stable in my environment (especially due to the NFS work that has been done; God bless-em) that the testing process goes much quicker than in the 2.X days.] Another think that would help pre-release QA is some kind of special problem reporting track (perhaps a special PR coding or something) that would allow fast triage to separate problems in to blocking and non-blocking categories. This might allow the precious volunteer resources to be focused on the truly important release-stoppers in the critical pre-release period. Another suggestion: Why not engage some of the large corporate users like the Yahoos et. al. and get them to buy into the concept of being so-called "limited-access/early-access accounts" with special access to some developers on the understanding that they will commit to seriously wring out new releases? For that matter, why not see if they would fund a mini-Cygnus kind of operation for FreeBSD? And yet another sugestion: Could the product be split into different components with different release schedules. For example, I would like to get a set of ports/packages CDs every quarter. That would save me the effort of searching around for updates. (And it would be especially cool if it would come with a utility that would scan through my installed packages and notify me of the updated ones, allowing me to install them if I wish.) I would prefer to get OS updates only twice a year. Updating the OS is much more disruptive than updating packages and ports. Also, if critical bug fixes (like CERT fixes and things of this severity) could be distributed as packages/ports, this would reduce the pressure for new releases somewhat. I don't know if any of the above are truly workable in the FreeBSD development environment, but at least it is food for thought. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 18:45:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id B8C5A150BF; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBC61CD76D; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:45:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Robert Withrow Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911240157.UAA45302@rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Robert Withrow wrote: > save me the effort of searching around for updates. (And it would > be especially cool if it would come with a utility that would scan > through my installed packages and notify me of the updated ones, > allowing me to install them if I wish.) I would prefer to You mean like pkg_version(1)? This doesn't currently give you the option of updating automatically, but that's not so much of a problem. > Also, if critical bug fixes (like CERT fixes and things of this severity) > could be distributed as packages/ports, this would reduce the pressure > for new releases somewhat. In theory this could probably be done, but it opens up the whole redhat can of worms about dependencies. Kris ---- Cthulhu for President! For when you're tired of choosing the _lesser_ of two evils.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 19:10:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00F915188 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from count@ozemail.com.au) Received: from mycroft.marshall.id.au (slmlb46p08.ozemail.com.au [210.84.140.136]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10490 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:07:32 +1100 (EST) From: "Geoffrey C. Marshall" Organization: Tobacco Chewers and Body Painters Association To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: subscribe Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:17:10 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99112412172403.17477@mycroft.marshall.id.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe -- count@nemesis.com.au Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 20:46:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from spoon.beta.com (h00a0242f177e.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.8.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE421538F for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Received: from spoon.beta.com (mcgovern@localhost.beta.com [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21146 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:46:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Message-Id: <199911240446.XAA21146@spoon.beta.com> To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: QA effort stalled in june due to lack of interest (was Re: speaking of 3.4) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:33:24 PST." Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:46:29 -0500 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After Usenix last year, I popped a few emails out and around asking if anyone was interested in doing OS QA, and what people thought should be checked during these QA runs. The response was terribly underwhelming. No one volunteered to do the work, and only a handful submitted ideas/code for test cases. I dropped the idea of trying to work out a QA plan so that I could spend my time working on applications, and pulling more users in to the FreeBSD fold. Even now, the latter has been far more useful than trying to do QA alone. I agree with David that you're not going to be able to freeze the tree for a month. But, what I consider a "freeze" and what David considers a freeze is probably different. What _might_ work is to either apply only bug fixes during the "release" cycle, or branch the release candidate, and apply bug fixes to try to get the release stabilized, and then merge them (the fixes) with -stable or -current (for 3.x and 4.x, respectively) if the fixes prove worth while. To a QA tester, however, the method for this is not relevant. What is relevant is that they're given a "fixed" version to continue testing. Therefore, I'll leave how to manage the source tree to the committers and the release engineer. The timeframe for the release testing is going to be a hot issue. Right now, it is 0 time. After all, no formal testing is done. Jordan does what he can, twiddles his thumbs getting no response, releases what appears to have "no" obvious bugs, then gets hammered as the user community installs the new release. The big question in my mind is why this happens. Now, even in my limited time, I will still grab one or two release candidates (RCs), and install them, just to see how much is fubar. A lot of times, I'm very surprised how much works, and its rare that I find serious bugs. However, usually my testing is limited to the basics, which is what I'm sure everyone else tests. Unfortunately, most places of business (including my own) claim that OS release testing is "Somebody Else's Problem", and doesn't fit in to the business' objectives and goals, and it isn't [your] responsibility to go test out the "bleeding edge" of OS technology. Unfortunately, if your business is going to make its living off the platform, it needs to be your responsibilty, even if its on one box in the back room running the applications you need it to run. Anyhow, I digress... Getting back on topic, what would people say to a 14 day release window? That would mean that Jordan will freeze code on 12/1, as mentioned in the thread, and a release will be forthcoming on or about 12/15. It could be later if there are serious problems found. But, I think this is a reasonable time to get some mileage on a release. Next question is who is going to do the work. This is the kicker. If we can find 6-12 people (and I'll be the first to volunteer) who are serious about getting some testing time in between 12/1 and 12/14, we might be able to scramble something together. By "serious", I mean that you have a machine or two to play with, and have a few hours daily, no less than every other day, to install a full new version, and bang the hell out of it. You should probably also consider the bandwidth you have to download releases. One or two may also have the luxury of installing a prior release, and then testing the "Upgrade" route. This means that a worst-case scenario, you have 42 machine/releases played with for a couple of hours each. The last hard task will be figuring out what/how to test. My first thought is to plow through the pr's that are either a.) closed since the 3.2-RELEASE, or b.) open. a.) gives you the chance to verify that the "fixes" really fixed things, and b.) lets you verify the bug really exists, and possibly give you a chance to debug it more fully. From this, we can hopefully pull a test set together. So, anyone up for actually doing the work? As mentioned, I want to start with 6-12 people, so the group is managable. I'm willing to coordinate, if Jordan is willing to plug in to the process, as well. After all, we'll need someone who is in the middle of the mess who knows who is responsible for what ;) I think if/when we can get things running 'smoothly' (and I use that word loosely), he can probably fall back a bit, but we'll need a jumpstart of information up front. Anyhow, if you're willing to basically give up the next three weeks of free time for your favorite OS, drop me a line, and we can start coordinating events. If this email flops as badly as the first, I'll summarize by Friday that QA is impossible, due to a lack of interest in a concerted effort. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 21: 5:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6916D15500 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04427; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:05:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Brian J. McGovern" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QA effort stalled in june due to lack of interest (was Re: speaking of 3.4) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:46:29 EST." <199911240446.XAA21146@spoon.beta.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:05:43 -0800 Message-ID: <4424.943419943@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So, anyone up for actually doing the work? As mentioned, I want to start with > 6-12 people, so the group is managable. I'm willing to coordinate, if Jordan > is willing to plug in to the process, as well. Absolutely. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 21:34: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles532.castles.com [208.214.165.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3F414F51 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00694; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911240524.VAA00694@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: mi@aldan.algebra.com Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:51:10 EST." <199911231851.NAA22406@misha.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:24:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith once wrote: > > > > The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should > > > be eliminated... > > > The only way to guarantee this is to cause the install to fail unless > > the installation program can be 100% certain of the bootability of the > > install. > > You know, a very similar answer was given to me a couple of years ago on > this very forum (may be on -current). Back then, the inability to detect > over 64Mb of RAM was the issue. > > Both problems are related to the majority of PC BIOSes' brain damage, > but somehow other operating systems manage to work around the said > damage. I don't know if it is the installer or the kernel's root-device > seeker (or both), that need to be made even smarter, but something needs > to be done. Actually, these "other" operating systems avoid the issue by not offering the functionality in question at all. We make the obviously shaky assumption that our users are willing to think and apply a little common sense to the situation. > Of course, the statements like this do not solve the problems. But they > put them into spotlight... Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The > 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked > FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were > only using 64Mb... You remember incorrectly. The 64MB problem was licked when I managed to steamroller Sean and Jonathan's VM86 work into the system in order to use the BIOS. Likewise, I can in all modesty claim credit for fixing the very problem that you're whining about in the 4.x branch as well. I'm also responsible for the workaround in the 3.x branch. I'm not sure just why it is that the easier it is to work around a problem, the more people whine about it. It's documented, it's massively discussed in the list archives, and yet still people find it somehow "too hard". *sigh*. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 21:39:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles532.castles.com [208.214.165.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF07514F51 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00742; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911240529.VAA00742@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brad Knowles Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:30:39 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:29:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Then, may be, that's not what's needed? The > > 64Mb problems, AFAIR, was only addressed after some magazine benchmarked > > FreeBSD against Linux on a 128Mb machine and we sucked because we were > > only using 64Mb... > > You mean this problem has actually been fixed? Can I remove the > MAXMEM definitions on the kernel configurations for my Dell PowerEdge > 1300 servers? You can do this in 4.x, and in 3.x if you have the VM86 option in your kernel config. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 22:29:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B140914ECD for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA33652; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:27:27 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA00161; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:27:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911240627.BAA00161@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911240524.VAA00694@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Nov 23, 1999 09:24:25 pm" To: Mike Smith Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:27:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" Both problems are related to the majority of PC BIOSes' brain damage, => but somehow other operating systems manage to work around the said => damage. =Actually, these "other" operating systems avoid the issue by not =offering the functionality in question at all. As I mentioned earlier, NT installed onto a SCSI Jazz drive and continues to boot from it -- with two IDE disks in the way. Even though it appears as drive J: in the diskmanager. I don't remember it EVER having a problem counting the true memory amount, either, may be others do. =You remember incorrectly. The 64MB problem was licked when I managed to =steamroller Sean and Jonathan's VM86 work into the system in order to =use the BIOS. Quite possible. Or may be it was the combination of several factors? My point was, that I was told with a very similarly convincing tones, that it will never happen. The person also tried to explain it by saying the FreeBSD usership is different from that of other OSes, so there is no need to bother. =Likewise, I can in all modesty claim credit for fixing the very problem =that you're whining about in the 4.x branch as well. Mike, while I'm sincerely thankful to you and others, I must note, that I'm not "whining". What's more, I ask you to take that comment back. I know my way around things like this and worse. When I hit a problem and have time, I investigate it, often ending up with a PR. If I don't -- I work around it. =I'm not sure just why it is that the easier it is to work around a =problem, the more people whine about it. No. The right question to ask is, if it is so damn easy, WHY CAN'T IT BE AUTOMATED? Perhaps you are lucky to only converse with the happy Unix users, and simply can't imagine the rest of us, trying to convince people to TRY. And if it does not work from the first time, they are unlikely to try again. And don't try to deny it -- the growing usership IS what gives your work and efforts sense and what gives you (and me) the satisfaction. So stop looking down at those who point out what's missing. The questions- is flooded with the "can't mount root" (not my observation). It is a genuine feedback, YOU need, filtered and summarized for you... -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 22:40:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles532.castles.com [208.214.165.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E6B15358 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01121; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911240629.WAA01121@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mikhail Teterin Cc: Mike Smith , stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:27:26 EST." <199911240627.BAA00161@rtfm.newton> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:29:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > => Both problems are related to the majority of PC BIOSes' brain damage, > => but somehow other operating systems manage to work around the said > => damage. > > =Actually, these "other" operating systems avoid the issue by not > =offering the functionality in question at all. > > As I mentioned earlier, NT installed onto a SCSI Jazz drive and > continues to boot from it -- with two IDE disks in the way. Even though > it appears as drive J: in the diskmanager. I don't remember it EVER > having a problem counting the true memory amount, either, may be others > do. FreeBSD will do this just fine as well. In older versions, some architectural decisions that I don't agree with caused problems; these are no longer an issue. > =You remember incorrectly. The 64MB problem was licked when I managed to > =steamroller Sean and Jonathan's VM86 work into the system in order to > =use the BIOS. > > Quite possible. Or may be it was the combination of several factors? My > point was, that I was told with a very similarly convincing tones, that > it will never happen. The person also tried to explain it by saying the > FreeBSD usership is different from that of other OSes, so there is no > need to bother. *shrug* They were wrong. We rose above ourselves and fixed it. You should be happy. > =I'm not sure just why it is that the easier it is to work around a > =problem, the more people whine about it. > > No. The right question to ask is, if it is so damn easy, WHY CAN'T IT BE > AUTOMATED? It has been. I don't understand what the problem is here. It was a problem. It's been fixed. I don't have a time machine, so I can't go back and fix it for cases before I was able to do it. If you're so up and conversant with the problem, you'd understand why it gave us so much trouble and the massive discussions that were necessary to get us this far. > Perhaps you are lucky to only converse with the happy Unix > users, and simply can't imagine the rest of us, trying to convince > people to TRY. And if it does not work from the first time, they are > unlikely to try again. Perhaps you are wrong here. And perhaps you are not looking at this from the perspective of someone that's taken the extra step to address just a few of these problems. I don't get much joy out of listening to complaints about how things that have been fixed were once broken. There's this other thread going on about how we should do fewer releases, so it would take longer for these bugs to get resolved. You could go beat up on whoevers' bright idea that was. 8) > And don't try to deny it -- the growing usership IS what gives your work > and efforts sense and what gives you (and me) the satisfaction. So stop > looking down at those who point out what's missing. The questions- is > flooded with the "can't mount root" (not my observation). It is a > genuine feedback, YOU need, filtered and summarized for you... The point here is that until recently it was quite hard to deal with this case. I made it _much_ easier in 3.x to work around the basic architectural issue, before fixing it in 4.x. But making the workaround easier has just made more people complain. I can only imagine the howls of protest when the problem goes away entirely. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 23: 8: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from kot.ne.mediaone.net (kot.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.15.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBE614CE6 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:07:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from rtfm.newton (rtfm.newton [10.10.0.1]) by kot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA33838; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:07:16 -0500 (EST) From: Mikhail Teterin X-Relay-IP: 10.10.0.1 Received: (from mi@localhost) by rtfm.newton (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA00642; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:07:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi@kot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-Id: <199911240707.CAA00642@rtfm.newton> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911240629.WAA01121@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Nov 23, 1999 10:29:56 pm" To: Mike Smith Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:07:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7w hJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" =Actually, these "other" operating systems avoid the issue by not => =offering the functionality in question at all. => => As I mentioned earlier, NT installed onto a SCSI Jazz drive and => continues to boot from it -- with two IDE disks in the way. Even => though it appears as drive J: in the diskmanager. I don't remember it => EVER having a problem counting the true memory amount, either, may be => others do. = =FreeBSD will do this just fine as well. Ok, but there is indeed at least one other OS, where "the functionality in question" IS offered... Cookie 1. => My point was, that I was told with a very similarly convincing tones, => that it will never happen. =*shrug* They were wrong. We rose above ourselves and fixed it. You =should be happy. I am. But only 27 hours ago, in 199911231817.KAA01017@dingo.cdrom.com you responded to my (referring to the "unable to mount root" problem): > The inability to boot after a seemingly successful > install should be eliminated... with: The only way to guarantee this is to cause the install to fail unless the installation program can be 100% certain of the bootability of the install. => WHY CAN'T IT BE AUTOMATED? = =It has been. I don't understand what the problem is here. It was a =problem. It's been fixed. Unless there is some gross misunderstanding, this last paragraph contradicts the one I quoted from your earlier e-mail. Cookie 2. Now, if you just take back that "whining" remark, I'll stop counting cookies, and will try to live with the sorrow, that I had to be so rude as to insist... I'll even put the 8) sign in, even though t.b. charter expressly (and rightfully) forbids them. Yours, -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 23:19:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles532.castles.com [208.214.165.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030D314D36 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01437; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199911240708.XAA01437@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mikhail Teterin Cc: Mike Smith , stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:07:15 EST." <199911240707.CAA00642@rtfm.newton> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:08:23 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am. But only 27 hours ago, in 199911231817.KAA01017@dingo.cdrom.com > you responded to my (referring to the "unable to mount root" problem): > > > The inability to boot after a seemingly successful > > install should be eliminated... > > with: > > The only way to guarantee this is to cause the install > to fail unless the installation program can be 100% > certain of the bootability of the install. There is no contradiction there. "Eliminated" implies a total fix. That's just not currently possible. You could be more scientific and try to enumerate some of the issues, and talk about how each of them might be addressed, which would be more productive. > => WHY CAN'T IT BE AUTOMATED? > = > =It has been. I don't understand what the problem is here. It was a > =problem. It's been fixed. > > Unless there is some gross misunderstanding, this last paragraph > contradicts the one I quoted from your earlier e-mail. Cookie 2. I'm tired of this game. If you care about the issues, read again what I've said and listen for the points I was trying to make rather than looking for ways to score "points". The goal here is to move forwards. This requires admitting that there have been problems, and that these problems cannot be fixed in the past. You've got the first bit down ok - now try swallowing the second half. Then you can start working on the next phase - the solution. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 23 23:36: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from obscurity.org (obscurity.org [209.17.177.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A947C150B6 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cengland@obscurity.org) Received: (qmail 12282 invoked by uid 1003); 24 Nov 1999 07:46:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 24 Nov 1999 07:46:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: Chris England To: Mike Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: error messages on console annoying In-Reply-To: <199911230854.IAA08931@www.freebsdbox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Check your /etc/syslog.conf. On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Mike wrote: > hi all. > I am continually getting messages on my console whenever someone checks their > email. The error messages are this: > > Nov 22 20:15:53 www popper[8162]: @[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR Too > few a > rguments for the auth command. > Nov 22 23:00:09 www popper[8298]: mike@[2Cust85.tnt4.mia1.da.uu.net]: -ERR > Unkno > wn command: "xsender". > > and I got this message today which was a first, so if anyone can enlightent me > to what it means and how to stop getting these messages from popper to broadcast on the console it would greatly be appreciated. > > thanks, > mike > > please send a copy of your reply to mike@sprawlnet.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 0:15:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED9A150E6 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charon@freethought.org) Received: from harper.uchicago.edu (root@harper.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.7]) by midway.uchicago.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20604 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:14:56 -0600 (CST) From: charon@freethought.org Received: from broad-208-049 (broad-208-049.rh.uchicago.edu [128.135.208.49]) by harper.uchicago.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA11200 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:14:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991124021424.00a59c30@nsit-popmail.uchicago.edu> X-Sender: dbsypher@nsit-popmail.uchicago.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:14:24 -0600 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: References: <2049.943380341@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know this topic is quickly being talked to death, but here's my $0.02 on the non-technical side: The high frequency of releases makes users like myself (I use WinNT much of the time, am not a developer, and don't admin a network) not want to buy the CD's. Frighteningly for some of you, FreeBSD users like me are growing more and more numerous. I've used FreeBSD since 2.2.2, but first bought the CD's at 3.2. By the time I got the CD's, I basically couldn't use the ports collection on them. I needed ports that weren't on the CD's, which meant that I had to fetch them by hand, and by that time many of the ports had changed versions and required newer versions of ports than were _on_ the CD's. Also, by the time I got the CD's there were a lot of changes made to -STABLE, so there was no incentive to install an old version of the OS. _And_ XFree86 had a new version out. If -RELEASE's exsited on their own, self-consistant, and no one tore apart anyone for asking a question about an old release on -questions, then I would buy the CD's. But in the current system, with frequent releases that aren't much more than glorified snapshots, there is no incentive for me to buy the CD's, and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone else. So I guess my (naive) suggestion is that there are less frequent releases and then we'll have two set of users - RELEASE users and -STABLE users, with a division much more clear than presently. This would give FreeBSD the releases necessary to get users used to Win95/Win98 (notice the 3-year gap?) interested, but also have the edge-of-development stuff for those who want it. Just some thoughts from one of the masses. -Charon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 7: 8:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B5414FDC for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cy@cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id HAA06825 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:07:07 -0800 Received: from cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca(142.31.240.113), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda06823; Wed Nov 24 07:06:53 1999 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA75693 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:06:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911241506.HAA75693@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpdj75689; Wed Nov 24 07:06:36 1999 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-OS: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE X-Sender: cy To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:41:00 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:06:36 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How many times have I seen this discussion on this list?! I've been using FreeBSD on various types of hardware since 2.0.5. The only stability problems I've had were around the time of 2.1 and 2.1.1. IMO every FreeBSD release has been more stable. If you feel there are stability issues either roll up your sleeves and help out or go back to RedHat (which IMO is much less stable)! Regarding the release schedule, does it really matter whether i'ts a release every three months or ever four months. If it's that much of an issue, skip every other release. IME, sometimes we have 3 releases a year, other times 4. If you're a CDROM customer, it's only $24. $24 is not much to pay for good software! If you can't afford $24, you need to focus on the real problems in your life -- forget FreeBSD and work out your personal problems out first! For those of you who refuse to test before -release. You get what you deserve! Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group Internet: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca ITSD Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca Province of BC "e**(i*pi)+1=0" In message , Sam Habas h writes: > > When we're already at 4 releases/year, this is indicitive of a > > problem. People want new releases to fix the bugs in the current release. > > People want new releases to add functionality. Bugfixes happen constantly, > that's the whole point to tracking -STABLE and being on this mailing list. > > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > > it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes > > or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. > > Maybe Apple can loan the FreeBSD project some QA engineers then. I hear > they work for daemon decals in lieu of the many tens of thousands of > dollars a year they otherwise tend to ask for, qualified or unqualified, > EACH. But you raise a good point: are there people tasked with doing > QA work, or are we relying on users to submit PRs? I've always assumed > the latter procedure was what was occuring, if not by design, then by > necessity. > > FreeBSD has a different paradigm for releasing its software than commercial > concerns, with attendant strengths and weaknesses. I don't really have > the knowledge to disagree with your point, but the flip side of your > aregument is that going a *month* with *no changes at all* may be > unacceptable to the goal of maintaining a -STABLE (if not stable) release. > > --Sam > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 7:28:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from supernova.sevenheavens.com (supernova.sevenheavens.com [208.148.144.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4B615244 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:28:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ween@sevenheavens.com) Received: from shiva.sevenheavens.com (ween@dialup36.surrealnet.com [63.65.13.46]) by supernova.sevenheavens.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA08018 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:26:22 -0500 From: Stephen Reply-To: ween@sevenheavens.com To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RELENG_3 Sound compile error Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:10:48 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99112410133400.00262@shiva.sevenheavens.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Im running 3.3 cvsup'd with RELENG_3 in my tag, but when i try to compile my kernel with "controller pcm0" in the kernel config, it dies with this error. Ive done everything correctly according to the handbook i _think_. I edited it, did config KERNEL, make depend, make. loading kernel soundcard.o: In function `sndpoll': soundcard.o(.text+0x2f7): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_poll' sound_switch.o: In function `sound_read_sw': sound_switch.o(.text+0x52d): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_read' sound_switch.o: In function `sound_write_sw': sound_switch.o(.text+0x5ad): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_write' sound_switch.o: In function `sound_open_sw': sound_switch.o(.text+0x68f): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_open' sound_switch.o: In function `sound_release_sw': sound_switch.o(.text+0x72b): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_release' sound_switch.o: In function `sound_ioctl_sw': sound_switch.o(.text+0x835): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_ioctl' *** Error code 1 Stop. -- Stephen ween@sevenheavens.com "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 7:37:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF17415244 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:37:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38015; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:37:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08032; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:37:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991124103548.01778c60@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:35:48 -0500 To: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca, stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911241506.HAA75693@cwsys.cwsent.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:06 AM 11/24/99 -0800, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: >Regarding the release schedule, does it really matter whether i'ts a >release every three months or ever four months. If it's that much of >an issue, skip every other release. IME, sometimes we have 3 releases >a year, other times 4. > >If you're a CDROM customer, it's only $24. $24 is not much to pay for >good software! If you can't afford $24, you need to focus on the real >problems in your life -- forget FreeBSD and work out your personal problems >out first! What I find perplexing about this thread is that a) nobody is forcing anyone to update to a new release x times a year. If you dont require any of the bug fixes or any of the new features, dont upgrade. b) If you are using FreeBSD in a production environment for your business, $24USD x 4 (or even x 10) a year is hardly a cost to worry about. As a percentage of your total cost, even $240 a year is zippo considering what your other costs are. We look at the subscription as a way to subsidize FreeBSD development. As we use the CDs less and less, we will probably drop our subscription and just contribute directly via http://www.freebsdmall.com/donate/ which is a great idea.... Now, where did that company credit card go :-) ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 7:39:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from nipplehead.yi.org (nat196.28.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.196.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442F314E7C for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:39:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bbursey@nipplehead.yi.org) Received: from localhost (bbursey@localhost) by nipplehead.yi.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA63276; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:38:46 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from bbursey@nipplehead.yi.org) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:38:46 -0400 (AST) From: Bryan Bursey To: Stephen Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RELENG_3 Sound compile error In-Reply-To: <99112410133400.00262@shiva.sevenheavens.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen: Sounds like you should have added the following line instead... device pcm0 Hope that helps. Bryan PS. Again, this message would prolly have been most appropriately directed to -questions until you're sure its a -stable prob. +----------------------------------------+ | Drugs may be the road to nowhere, | | but at least they're the scenic route. | +----------------------------------------+ On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Stephen wrote: > Im running 3.3 cvsup'd with RELENG_3 in my tag, but when i try to compile my > kernel with "controller pcm0" in the kernel config, it dies with this error. > Ive done everything correctly according to the handbook i _think_. I edited it, > did config KERNEL, make depend, make. > > loading kernel > soundcard.o: In function `sndpoll': > soundcard.o(.text+0x2f7): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_poll' > sound_switch.o: In function `sound_read_sw': > sound_switch.o(.text+0x52d): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_read' > sound_switch.o: In function `sound_write_sw': > sound_switch.o(.text+0x5ad): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_write' > sound_switch.o: In function `sound_open_sw': > sound_switch.o(.text+0x68f): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_open' > sound_switch.o: In function `sound_release_sw': > sound_switch.o(.text+0x72b): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_release' > sound_switch.o: In function `sound_ioctl_sw': > sound_switch.o(.text+0x835): undefined reference to `MIDIbuf_ioctl' > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > -- > > Stephen > ween@sevenheavens.com > > "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, > than to speak and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 7:47:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A81D14E7C for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cy@cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id HAA06972; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:47:08 -0800 Received: from cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca(142.31.240.113), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda06964; Wed Nov 24 07:46:42 1999 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA97726; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:45:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911241545.HAA97726@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpdT97722; Wed Nov 24 07:45:45 1999 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-OS: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE X-Sender: cy To: Mike Tancsa Cc: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:35:48 EST." <3.0.5.32.19991124103548.01778c60@staff.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:45:45 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3.0.5.32.19991124103548.01778c60@staff.sentex.ca>, Mike Tancsa writ es: > What I find perplexing about this thread is that a) nobody is forcing > anyone to update to a new release x times a year. If you dont require any > of the bug fixes or any of the new features, dont upgrade. b) If you are > using FreeBSD in a production environment for your business, $24USD x 4 (or > even x 10) a year is hardly a cost to worry about. As a percentage of your > total cost, even $240 a year is zippo considering what your other costs > are. We look at the subscription as a way to subsidize FreeBSD > development. As we use the CDs less and less, we will probably drop our > subscription and just contribute directly via > http://www.freebsdmall.com/donate/ which is a great idea.... Now, where did > that company credit card go :-) A better idea might be to donate unused CDROMs to your local library. Heck, it could even be a tax write-off. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Sun/DEC Team, UNIX Group Internet: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca ITSD Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca Province of BC "e**(i*pi)+1=0" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 8:55: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from vinyl.sentex.ca (vinyl.sentex.ca [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA391522E for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:55:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by vinyl.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA48276 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:54:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04244 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:54:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991124115256.01bcc920@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:52:56 -0500 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Tancsa Subject: patches, fixes, regression errors and Olympic dives (was Re: speaking of 3.4... ) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991124021424.00a59c30@nsit-popmail.uchicago.edu > References: <2049.943380341@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Posted to NTBugtraq, its title is "What is NT 4.0 SP6a?". To me, the subtitle is, "Why I love, love, love CVSUP and the method used to track STABLE" If it didnt effect us as we have to use NT for some of our customers, its almost laughable... Reading it makes me think of Olympic diving... So, whats the technical difficulty level of a double reverse regression and a SYN fix. http://ntbugtraq.ntadvice.com/sp6a.asp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 9: 3:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (diarmadhi.mushhaven.net [63.75.111.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D8814BF2 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf@diarmadhi.mushhaven.net) Received: (from mistwolf@localhost) by diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA98206; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:01:18 -0800 From: Jamie Norwood To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Brian J. McGovern" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: QA effort stalled in june due to lack of interest (was Re: speaking of 3.4) Message-ID: <19991124090117.A98166@mushhaven.net> References: <199911240446.XAA21146@spoon.beta.com> <4424.943419943@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <4424.943419943@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Nov 23, 1999 at 09:05:43PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > So, anyone up for actually doing the work? As mentioned, I want to start with > > 6-12 people, so the group is managable. I'm willing to coordinate, if Jordan > > is willing to plug in to the process, as well. > > Absolutely. > > - Jordan I am no coder, but I do have a box laying around who's sole purpose is being a local shell account for me and my wife to IRC and MUSH from. We keep nothing of value on it, so if it gets broken, there is no loss. Basically, tell me what to do, and I'll do it, but I've little experience with it so for the first release or two may be in the 'hand-holding' group. ;) Jamie > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 9: 9: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pooh.elsevier.nl (pooh.elsevier.nl [145.36.9.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D2B14BF2 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:08:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@pooh.elsevier.nl) Received: (from steve@localhost) by pooh.elsevier.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00579; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:08:42 GMT (envelope-from steve) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:08:41 -0000 (GMT) From: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: pcaudio broken in -stable ? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is anyone else seeing this problem ? /dev/pcaudio always fails to open claiming to be already in use (even when booted single user). I have this line in my kernel config - which looks OK to me. device pca0 at isa? port "IO_TIMER1" tty PS: I only found this out because there is no pcm support for the Solo1 in my laptop. ------------------------------------------------------- Tell a computer to WIN and ... ... You lose ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 10:52: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from cliff.i-plus.net (cliff.i-plus.net [209.100.20.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8D6153D0 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from st@i-plus.net) Received: from ARCADIA (arcadia.i-plus.net [209.100.20.198]) by cliff.i-plus.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA30521; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:50:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Troy Settle" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Doug White" Cc: Subject: RE: speaking of 3.4... Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:51:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 In-reply-to: <2190.943382085@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A suggestion if I might. Not everyone has the time to do proper preparation for testing a release candidate. But, if provided with a copy of the CD, I'm sure you could find enough people to test and report problems. I've had a subscription to FreeBSD since 2.something, and usually never use the CDs shipped to me except for the occasional fresh installation or retrieving a package that I'm too lazy to build from the ports. But, in the interest of building a better product for release, if I were to recieve an RC distribution on CD, I would gladly install and test it. So, how about a release cycle like this: Step 1: Freeze the code Burn 100-200 copies (CD 1 only) Ship to folks who volunteer to test Step 2: Receive and collate feedback Step 3: Fix bugs If there were major bugs, repeat If no major bugs, then release Ya know, I might even be willing to pay $5-10 for the privilage of being an RC tester. -Troy ** -----Original Message----- ** From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG ** [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jordan K. Hubbard ** Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 1:35 PM ** To: Doug White ** Cc: Jordan K. Hubbard; stable@FreeBSD.ORG ** Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... ** ** ** > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the ** > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, ** before putting ** ** The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release ** candidate for that month. I generally get absolutely no feedback at ** all until 2 days before the release goes "gold" and then a lot more ** feedback about a week after. They always start the same way, too ** "Sorry I didn't have time to tell you this before, but..." :-) ** ** - Jordan ** ** ** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org ** with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message ** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 11:40:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from tricord.system.pl (tricord.system.pl [195.205.185.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BC4153A8 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:40:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from saper@system.pl) Received: from localhost (saper@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tricord.system.pl (SYSTEM Internet) with ESMTP id UAA18339 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:40:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:40:45 +0100 (MET) From: Marcin Cieslak To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991123124841.01899ad0@staff.sentex.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Mike Tancsa wrote: > Here is one of our internal servers > % uptime > 12:45PM up 526 days, 5:39, 3 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 What about this: % uname -v FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 1 ... (the rest ommited - machine still on the Internet). Rock solid for YEARS. Only sendmail and named upgraded :( -- << Marcin Cieslak // saper@system.pl >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- SYSTEM Internet Provider http://www.system.pl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 11:45:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4989315418 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:45:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20779; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:43:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:43:12 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: mi@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Booting After Install (was "speaking of 3.4...") In-Reply-To: <2207.943382144@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The inability to boot after a seemingly successfull install should be > > eliminated... > > If simple statements like this were capable of fixing the problem, it > would have been fixed long ago. :) > > - Jordan After or during a successful install I think it would be "nice" to be able to put the kernel from kern.flp on the hard drive, preferably without having to boot the installed system. This would be especially useful when the install floppies have been customized to make it possible for them to work on particular hardware. I built a 3.3-STABLE release the other day in order to create install floppies with the aic driver on them. But if they are used to install a standard release or snap, the aic driver won't be in the installed kernel, as I understand it. Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 12:32:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C80C14D29 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kwc@world.std.com) Received: from world.std.com (root@world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5]) by europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17390 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from kwc@localhost) by world.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01478; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:28:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth W Cochran Message-Id: <199911242028.PAA01478@world.std.com> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: 3.3-stable rendered unbootable by Slackware, fix? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (msg asked in -questions, no reply, so asking in -stable, possibly -hackers...) Hi, Problem(s): 1. FreeBSD (3.3-stable) no longer bootable, even though everything (slices, partitions, disklabel?) appears to be "there" upon examination with boot/install floppy, but I can't see anything (yet) with the fixit floppy or CD. Is there a "reasonably safe" way for recovery? (Ie. perhaps using fixit and/or installation tools and/or fdisk and/or disklabel?) 2. Linux LILO (Slackware 4 & 7) gives error message when trying to set up BSD partition for booting. "First sector of /dev/sdb1 doesn't contain a valid partition signature" ?? (Quoting from memory; can't get actual text right now...) I think I can fix this if I can get FreeBSD back to working... I've been multi-booting FreeBSD, MS-DOS & Slackware for months, just fine with LILO. Installation of Slackware 7 appears to have overwritten something in the FreeBSD partition/slice. Also, reinstallation of SW4 does the same thing. I have *lots* of books, manuals, docs, etc., but nothing to really explain the intricacies of disklabel... Partition (slice) layout is as follows: (/dev/sdb) 1. BSD (a5), start cyl 2, end cyl 197 2. Linux boot/root (/, type 83), start cyl 199, end cyl 203 3. DOS-extended (contains other Linux partitions) 4. (empty) LILO uses the MBR of sda, the 1st hdd (DOS is on that one). I remember now... What I've done before (that worked) was to delete the FreeBSD partition with fdisk (#1 in my case, SW boot is #2), install & configure my Linux kernel & add the FreeBSD partition back in just like it was before. Yes, this has always worked fine (just make sure to write down the numbers...)... I've used this "technique" to "hide" FreeBSD from Slackware's install; Slackware has BSD filesystem support in the install kernel & it causes all kinds of trouble... The *major* thing I need to do now is getting FreeBSD bootable again. Linux is expendable for now, FreeBSD is not... If necessary, I can "switch to voice..." Naturally, faq/doc pointers are most welcome. BAD BAD BAD Slackware... :( Many thanks, -kc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 12:53:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1365914FD5 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:53:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08156; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Annelise Anderson Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , mi@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Booting After Install (was "speaking of 3.4...") In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:43:12 PST." Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:53:37 -0800 Message-ID: <8152.943476817@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After or during a successful install I think it would be "nice" > to be able to put the kernel from kern.flp on the hard drive, > preferably without having to boot the installed system. This > would be especially useful when the install floppies have been customized > to make it possible for them to work on particular hardware. I'd have to make the user swap floppies again and it would also be impossible to read the kern.flp kernel in on systems where the floppy isn't actually usable from anything but the BIOS (most PCCARD or USB floppy-using laptops, for example). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 13:16:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from seamud.oz.net (sense-samz-124.oz.net [216.39.161.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86441547D for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:16:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from samz@oz.net) Received: from sam (sense-samz-125.oz.net [216.39.161.125]) by seamud.oz.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA99426 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:16:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from samz@oz.net) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991124131349.00ab5018@mail.oz.net> X-Sender: samz@mail.oz.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:16:10 -0800 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Sam Zamarripa Subject: Buildworld Failure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am running the latest FreeBSD stable. After my recent CVSUP...buildworld fails once it reaches /usr/src/usr.sbin/ngctl...it fails with "netgraph.h no such file or directory" type of an error I did another cvsup and then did a complete refresh of my sources after a rm -rf /usr/src and it still compiles with this error. Examination of the directory shows there isn't any netgraph.h file there. How can I fix this? Thanks. Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 13:28:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.alpha1.net (mail.alpha1.net [216.88.112.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3554815487 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marius@alpha1.net) Received: from beaker.alpha1.net (beaker.alpha1.net [216.88.237.14]) by mail.alpha1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10170; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:25:26 -0600 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:25:25 -0600 (CST) From: Marius Strom To: Sam Zamarripa Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Buildworld Failure In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991124131349.00ab5018@mail.oz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I get the same error after cvsup'ing a new box. New cvsup, make clean, nothing, and nothing in -stable, -questions, and -hackers archive. -- Marius Strom Professional Geek/Unix System Administrator Alpha1 Internet http://www.marius.org/marius.pgp 0x5645C228 In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice... ...In practice, there is a big difference. On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Sam Zamarripa wrote: > I am running the latest FreeBSD stable. After my recent CVSUP...buildworld > fails once it reaches /usr/src/usr.sbin/ngctl...it fails with "netgraph.h > no such file or directory" type of an error > > I did another cvsup and then did a complete refresh of my sources after a > rm -rf /usr/src and it still compiles with this error. Examination of the > directory shows there isn't any netgraph.h file there. > > How can I fix this? Thanks. > > Sam > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 13:45: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC4814CF2 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05329; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:41:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199911242141.OAA05329@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: from Marcin Cieslak at "Nov 24, 99 08:40:45 pm" To: saper@system.pl (Marcin Cieslak) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:41:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Marcin Cieslak wrote: > What about this: > > % uname -v > FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 1 ... > (the rest ommited - machine still on the Internet). > > Rock solid for YEARS. Only sendmail and named upgraded :( > > -- > << Marcin Cieslak // saper@system.pl >> Got me beat. Mine is 2.1-STABLE (I did a CVSup and build). Been running since April, 1998 with only sendmail, named and ftp upgraded. Does FTP service, web hosting (several virtual sites), and e-mail service POP3 and IMAP4, SNMP. I think the point here, is that if following all the releases gives you gas, don't. You'll still be more stable and better off than brand MS, or even Linux (in all its various flavors). -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 14:19:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.perceptionpub.com (ns3.perceptionpub.com [208.218.82.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBF8152CB; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@webgator.com) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by ns3.perceptionpub.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29125; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:18:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dave@webgator.com) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:18:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dave H X-Sender: dave@ns3.perceptionpub.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, security-officer@freebsd.org Subject: Security status of BIND8 in stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'll keep this brief. I basically have three questions about bind8 in stable: 1) The version in stable is still 8.1.2 - is there any reason to believe that the current well-known vulnerabilities in bind are not present for some reason in our bind 8.1.2? 2) Why hasn't FreeBSD made a statement is response to Cert Advisory CA-99-14? 3) How soon will the bind version be updated in stable? I'd prefer to stick with source instead of ports for ease of maintenance accross multiple machines. If building bind from ports is (and will continue to be) the best way of maintaining bind, so be it - I will make the change across all machines - I'd just rather not do it if it is not necessary. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 17:54:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.1.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D150150F7; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:54:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from osaka.louisville.edu (osaka.louisville.edu [136.165.1.114]) by erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB6A24D07; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by osaka.louisville.edu (Postfix, from userid 15) id D9CA318605; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:54:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:54:24 -0500 From: Keith Stevenson To: Dave H Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, security-officer@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Security status of BIND8 in stable Message-ID: <19991124205424.C54601@osaka.louisville.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 05:18:22PM -0500, Dave H wrote: > Hi, > > I'll keep this brief. I basically have three questions about bind8 in > stable: > > 1) The version in stable is still 8.1.2 - is there any reason to believe > that the current well-known vulnerabilities in bind are not present for > some reason in our bind 8.1.2? The consensus seems to be that we only have the denial of service attacks to contend with. The remote root vulnerability didn't appear until 8.2 > > 2) Why hasn't FreeBSD made a statement is response to Cert Advisory > CA-99-14? I'll defer that to the Security Officer. > > 3) How soon will the bind version be updated in stable? I'd prefer to > stick with source instead of ports for ease of maintenance accross > multiple machines. If building bind from ports is (and will continue to > be) the best way of maintaining bind, so be it - I will make the change > across all machines - I'd just rather not do it if it is not necessary. Considering that -CURRENT still includes 8.1.2 and that the 3.4 and 4.0 feature freezes are fast approaching (as is BIND9), I think that the ports version is your best bet. Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 17:57:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc3.on.home.com (ha1.rdc3.on.home.com [24.2.9.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07868150F7 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:57:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cwass99@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.114.108.234]) by mail.rdc3.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19991125013345.GGN23986.mail.rdc3.on.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:33:45 -0800 Message-ID: <383C918F.B1C2858C@home.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:31:59 -0500 From: Colin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Subject: Re: QA effort stalled in june due to lack of interest (was Re: speaking of 3.4) References: <199911240446.XAA21146@spoon.beta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian J. McGovern wrote: > > Getting back on topic, what would people say to a 14 day release window? That > would mean that Jordan will freeze code on 12/1, as mentioned in the thread, > and a release will be forthcoming on or about 12/15. It could be later if > there are serious problems found. But, I think this is a reasonable time to > get some mileage on a release. It strikes me as still a bit short, but probably the best we could expect under the circumstances. > > Next question is who is going to do the work. This is the kicker. If we can > find 6-12 people (and I'll be the first to volunteer) who are serious about > getting some testing time in between 12/1 and 12/14, we might be able to > scramble something together. By "serious", I mean that you have a machine or > two to play with, and have a few hours daily, no less than every other day, to > install a full new version, and bang the hell out of it. You should probably > also consider the bandwidth you have to download releases. One or two may also > have the luxury of installing a prior release, and then testing the "Upgrade" > route. This means that a worst-case scenario, you have 42 machine/releases > played with for a couple of hours each. > I can't guarentee I can give more than about 1-2 hours per night, but it's yours if you can use it. I also have a cable modem to play with, so bandwidth isn't a huge worry. As well, having just upgraded this box from 3.0 to 3.3-stable (fwiw, this was not nearly so easy as the instructions would lead a person to believe ;)), I could wind it back to 3.0 as part of the test process. I have another box that I can live on for a couple of weeks if things get really weird. > The last hard task will be figuring out what/how to test. My first thought is > to plow through the pr's that are either a.) closed since the 3.2-RELEASE, or > b.) open. a.) gives you the chance to verify that the "fixes" really fixed > things, and b.) lets you verify the bug really exists, and possibly give you > a chance to debug it more fully. From this, we can hopefully pull a test > set together. > I've only just recently started tracking this list, so I'm not completely up to speed on all the bugs and fixes that have been through here since 3.2. I would still be willing to test against them given a reasonable plan. > > Anyhow, if you're willing to basically give up the next three weeks of free > time for your favorite OS, drop me a line, and we can start coordinating > events. If this email flops as badly as the first, I'll summarize by Friday > that QA is impossible, due to a lack of interest in a concerted effort. > -Brian Hopefully, I won't be the only one willing to play ;) Cheers, Colin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 22:19: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0134A14CE2 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from forrestc@workhorse.iMach.com) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA18284; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:09:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:09:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group Cc: Mike Tancsa , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <199911241545.HAA97726@cwsys.cwsent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmmm.... I guess I've been following this thread long enough to form an opinion or at least an idea. For "core" server machines, following each and every release can be too much work and too risky to do on a 3-4 month basis - specifically if your upgrade may have an effect on many users. However, in order to keep up with the security fixes which are necessary to survive in the environment of today's internet you need to keep up with the latest code. Hard Decision... Do you upgrade and risk screwing something critical up, or do you not upgrade and risk being intruded/DoS'd? Maybe it would be cool if we actually had three chains. You have a "major" release once a year. Call it something like "MISSIONCRITICAL" or something like that. Once it is branched, integrate ONLY security and bug fixes into it. Minimize the impact, where possible, of upgrading so people feel reasonably secure in the fact that the upgrade will be safe. This is the architecture Cisco takes with their routers. For example, Cisco's "current" version is 12.0.x. They "created" 12.0 by merging all the code together and labeling it 12.0(1). (Ala 4.0-CURRENT). They also indicated that 12.0(1) was "early deployment" code - meaing late beta and that people shouldn't run it unless you need the 12.0 feature set. NO NEW FEATURES are added to the mainstream 12.0 release. In fact, they don't even add support for new hardware. 12.0(2) just fixes releases in 12.0(1) and 12.0.(3) fixes bugs in the previous two (and regression issues). So, as long as your hardware is supported in 12.0, you can keep going with the "mainstream" 12.0 release. At some point (like 12.0(3)) it is declared "limited deployment" meaning ok, but may have some bugs, and then later "general deployment" meaning, considered stable. At some point they retire the 12.0 chain and move to 12.1 which re-integrates features. 12.0 gets supported with bug fixes until 12.2 or 13.0 comes out or so - or maybe better put, until they have a couple later "general deployment" releases. Now, let's assume you want/need new features and/or new hardware support. You then pick an appropriate "release chain". For example 12.0 T is what they call the "Consolidated Technology Early Deployment" chain. This is essentialy the equivalent of the FreeBSD -RELEASE set. Features get added to this as needed and all the newest "STABLE" features are there. In addition, additional hardware support gets added here also. They also release code which is equivalent to a -STABLE "snapshot". For instance, I have a router which has a 4 port ATM card in it which isn't supported in 12.0 or 12.0T. As a result I get to run 12.0XK. The next version of 12.0T will support this card, and then version 12.1. Generally, I like to run a mainstream release such as 12.0, but as necessity requires me to run a XK release, I have to do so. As soon as the next T release comes out I will move back there. There is also a development chain which is equivalent to -CURRENT. You have to specifically request this and you need to pretty much agree that if you use this you know you're going to have problems. A description of cisco's release method is at the following url: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/cisco/mkt/ios/rel/prodlit/537_pp.htm It would be really cool if FreeBSD would be able to do something like this. In other words, I have to upgrade all my systems once a year and apply "bug fixes" the rest of the year. - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) KD7EHZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 22:20:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f119.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E167214E6A for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wind_prowler@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 51526 invoked by uid 0); 25 Nov 1999 06:20:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19991125062009.51525.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.106.63.69 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:20:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [203.106.63.69] From: "Nawfal M. Rouyan" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: joining the testing group Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:20:09 MYT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I want to be one of the people to test the release candidates of FreeBSD. I have several computers to test on. Tell me what to do and I'll do it ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 24 23: 3:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BE514CF2; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15864; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:02:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA24759; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:02:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199911250702.AAA24759@harmony.village.org> To: Keith Stevenson Subject: Re: Security status of BIND8 in stable Cc: Dave H , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, security-officer@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:54:24 EST." <19991124205424.C54601@osaka.louisville.edu> References: <19991124205424.C54601@osaka.louisville.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:02:35 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19991124205424.C54601@osaka.louisville.edu> Keith Stevenson writes: : > 2) Why hasn't FreeBSD made a statement is response to Cert Advisory : > CA-99-14? : : I'll defer that to the Security Officer. AFAIK, nothing has been done to -current or -stable yet to address these probelms yet, so no advisory has been issued saying that nothing has happened. There was a pgp signed post analysing the risks to -security a while ago including concerns about a new component in 8.2 that had a licensing issue, but no advisory has been issued. If I've missed a commit that fixes this, please let me know. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 1:16:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from tricord.system.pl (tricord.system.pl [195.205.185.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD6614CAD for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:16:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from saper@system.pl) Received: from localhost (saper@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tricord.system.pl (SYSTEM Internet) with ESMTP id KAA27765 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:16:40 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:16:36 +0100 (MET) From: Marcin Cieslak To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: > It would be really cool if FreeBSD would be able to do something like > this. In other words, I have to upgrade all my systems once a year and > apply "bug fixes" the rest of the year. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste. But I'd prefer having one or two development tracks (-stable,-current) and not diverting into many directions, like Cisco does. If you want to have ssh, you have to use 12.0(X)S release. But you this may not support all your hardware, supported in 12.0(7)X-whatever. In FreeBSD, you have simple choice - if you want to experiment with "Early Deployment" - go ahead with -current. If you'd rather stay with "General Deployment" - go with -stable. My personal opinion of a frequent cvsup'per is that one release a year is sufficient, but I understand the need for off-line or low-bandwitdth people on one side and the FreeBSD project on the other side to deliver CD-ROMs frequently. -- << Marcin Cieslak // saper@system.pl >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- SYSTEM Internet Provider http://www.system.pl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 5:37:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from cutter.wantabe.com (cutter.wantabe.com [209.16.8.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1C214E09 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 05:37:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeffrl@wantabe.com) Received: from localhost (jeffrl@localhost) by cutter.wantabe.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA99668 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:37:34 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jeffrl@wantabe.com) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:37:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey J. Libman" To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: re: log message i've never seen before Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i have a 3.3-stable o/s (last cvsup'd and built october 11), serving as my mail server (smtp, pop and majordomo) and primary dns server. this morning, in its security check output, i see the following: cutter.wantabe.com kernel log messages: > rl0: watchdog timeout > rl0: watchdog timeout > rl0: watchdog timeout > rl0: watchdog timeout what is this? is it related to using trafshow2 on a "promiscuous" interface? thanks in advance. cheers, jeff -- | |\ +------------------------------+ Jeffrey J. Libman, ops. mgr. | \ | Wantabe Internet Services | Wantabe, Inc. |__\ +------------------------------+ jeffrl@wantabe.com <-----|------> | access web cgi ftp news mail | (281) 493-0718 __,.-=\'`^`'~=-../__,.-= +------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 5:46: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zappa.todo.de (zappa.todo.de [194.123.36.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CC514E16 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 05:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erik@todo.de) Received: from hendrix.todo.de (root@hendrix.todo.de [194.123.36.206]) by zappa.todo.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20862 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:45:42 +0100 (CET) Received: (from erik@localhost) by hendrix.todo.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA15013 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:45:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:45:41 +0100 From: Erik Wenzel To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Buildworld Failure Message-ID: <19991125144541.A14912@todo.de> References: <4.2.2.19991124131349.00ab5018@mail.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Marius Strom on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 03:25:25PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am trying to 'make world' for a week. With similar error codes you reported. Today 'make world' exits this way: > make world [...] ===> gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt rm -f uuxqt uuxqt.o util.o log.o copy.o uuxqt.8.gz uuxqt.8.cat.gz rm -f .depend /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GPATH /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GRTAGS /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GSYMS /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GTAGS ===> gnu/usr.bin make: don't know how to make cleandir. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 03:25:25PM -0600, Marius Strom wrote: > I get the same error after cvsup'ing a new box. New cvsup, make clean, > nothing, and nothing in -stable, -questions, and -hackers archive. > On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Sam Zamarripa wrote: > > > I am running the latest FreeBSD stable. After my recent CVSUP...buildworld > > fails once it reaches /usr/src/usr.sbin/ngctl...it fails with "netgraph.h > > no such file or directory" type of an error > > > > I did another cvsup and then did a complete refresh of my sources after a > > rm -rf /usr/src and it still compiles with this error. Examination of the > > directory shows there isn't any netgraph.h file there. > > > > How can I fix this? Thanks. :wq --- Erik Wenzel, Network/System Administration e.wenzel@todo.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 10:10:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C74814F6E for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:10:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from forrestc@workhorse.iMach.com) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21734; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:58:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:58:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: Marcin Cieslak Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, Marcin Cieslak wrote: > But I'd prefer having one or two development tracks (-stable,-current) > and not diverting into many directions, like Cisco does. > If you want to have ssh, you have to use 12.0(X)S release. > But you this may not support all your hardware, supported in 12.0(7)X-whatever. What I'd propose is one additional "track". Basically: -current (all the latest greatest experimental). -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug fixes after release). > If you'd rather stay with "General Deployment" - go with -stable. The problem is that -stable is not necessarily "General Deployment". The difference between -stable and "-missioncritical" would be that -stable gets new features - and -missioncritical gets more stable. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 10:39:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A75914BCD for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:39:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11248; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:38:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: Marcin Cieslak , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:58:14 MST." Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:38:41 -0800 Message-ID: <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -current (all the latest greatest experimental). > -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). > -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug > fixes after release). Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits to the 2.2.x branch. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 12:14:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC16214DF2 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:14:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA88475; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:14:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White To: Mike Tancsa Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991123132634.00ba7100@staff.sentex.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Mike Tancsa wrote: > >Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > >release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > >it gold; we might get a week, and frequently there's last-minute changes > >or more obscure nuances that often result in bugs in the release. > > But Apple charges big bucks (relative to the cost for FreeBSD) for new > releases-- so it better be right! You can download the FreeBSD release for > free. I dont think 4 per year is too much considering the design > philosophy of FreeBSD. Especially when contrasted to commercial operating > systems. I don't think that just because FreeBSD is free means we have an excuse for shoddy releases (which retail channels charge money for). That hurts our image. Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 12:16:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B825314E0A for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA88630; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:51 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <2190.943382085@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > > The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release > candidate for that month. I generally get absolutely no feedback at > all until 2 days before the release goes "gold" and then a lot more > feedback about a week after. They always start the same way, too > "Sorry I didn't have time to tell you this before, but..." :-) Well, that sucks, but it shouldn't happen. How much time did you leave for 3.3-RC? Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 12:19:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8D514E0A for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:19:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA90160; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:19:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White To: jack Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, jack wrote: > Today Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > > > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > > > > The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release > > candidate for that month. > > Apple also has a much better idea of what hardware it will be > installed on, and doesn't have to contend with the multitude of > (non)standards for PC hardware. It would probably take years to > test every possible need of various services (heavy HTTP server, > ftp, etc.) against all the permutations of available hardware. I'm not worried about hardware interactions; I'm worried about plain dumb bugs, like the whole lo0 fiasco with 3.3. That should _NOT_ have happened. Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 13: 5:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from guru.phone.net (guru.phone.net [216.240.39.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 576A714CB1 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:05:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwm@phone.net) Received: (qmail 67858 invoked by uid 100); 25 Nov 1999 21:05:37 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14397.42145.713260.260960@guru.phone.net> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:05:37 -0800 (PST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Forrest W. Christian" , Marcin Cieslak , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> References: <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: ;->> -current (all the latest greatest experimental). ;->> -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). ;->> -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug ;->> fixes after release). ;->Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for ;->now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still ;->running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits ;->to the 2.2.x branch. Possibly some things should be done to make this more official? Publicizing it more widely? Letting more of the people still running/supporting 2.2.x have commit privileges to that branch? Basically, providing a single place for people who need support for this kind of platform to find it for FreeBSD. ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kstewart@3-cities.com) Received: from revolution.3-cities.com (revolution.3-cities.com [204.203.224.155]) by corinth.bossig.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:15:54 -0800 Received: from 3-cities.com (kenn1162.bossig.com [208.26.241.162]) by revolution.3-cities.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13720; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:09:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <383DA58A.58AF5FFA@3-cities.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:09:30 -0800 From: Kent Stewart Organization: BOSSig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug White Cc: jack , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug White wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, jack wrote: > > > Today Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > Our release QA is horrible. Look at what Apple does -- they sit on the > > > > release candidate for a *month*, with *no changes at all*, before putting > > > > > > The problem is that Apple also gets people to LOOK at the release > > > candidate for that month. > > > > Apple also has a much better idea of what hardware it will be > > installed on, and doesn't have to contend with the multitude of > > (non)standards for PC hardware. It would probably take years to > > test every possible need of various services (heavy HTTP server, > > ftp, etc.) against all the permutations of available hardware. > > I'm not worried about hardware interactions; I'm worried about plain dumb > bugs, like the whole lo0 fiasco with 3.3. That should _NOT_ have > happened. Yes, but that wasn't the only one. The CDROM's were only bootable on certain devices. There have been boot configuration problems for several releases. There was also something on 3.2 that killed some of us. I really didn't shut us down but impared operation was a functional description. As always, a cvsup a week later for 3.2-Stable worked just fine. There has been something strange broken on the last two releases. Code would be locked down but you may not see and identify the problem for a couple of days and by the time you identify that it wasn't a dumb user error, the gold CDROMs have been shipped to the production facility. The problem was identified too late again. More stuff for the errata file and real newbie gotcha's. The lo0 was a much more severe problem because it shut people down and made them scramble to find a machine to dial to the Internet and get an answer. Kent > > Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve > dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA mailto:kstewart@3-cities.com http://www.3-cities.com/~kstewart/index.html http://daily.daemonnews.org/ SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) @ Home http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 14: 2:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from blaubaer.kn-bremen.de (blaubaer.kn-bremen.de [195.37.179.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7754314C89 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:02:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nox@saturn.kn-bremen.de) Received: from saturn.kn-bremen.de (uucp@localhost) by blaubaer.kn-bremen.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id XAA29346; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:00:16 +0100 Received: (from nox@localhost) by saturn.kn-bremen.de (8.9.3/8.8.5) id WAA08549; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:03:21 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:03:21 +0100 (MET) From: Juergen Lock Message-Id: <199911252103.WAA08549@saturn.kn-bremen.de> To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... X-Newsgroups: local.list.freebsd.stable In-Reply-To: <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Organization: home Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> you write: >> -current (all the latest greatest experimental). >> -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). >> -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug >> fixes after release). > >Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for >now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still >running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits >to the 2.2.x branch. Hmm 2.2.x... Have all the Y2K fixes been merged back there? Wondering... -- Juergen Lock (remove dot foo from address to reply) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 14:24:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub1.anasazi.com (mailhub1.anasazi.com [138.113.128.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC8114F61 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@anasazi.com) Received: from chad.anasazi.com (chad.anasazi.com [138.113.128.36]) by mailhub1.anasazi.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA27769 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 15:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad@anasazi.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by chad.anasazi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14503 for stable@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 15:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199911252223.PAA14503@chad.anasazi.com> Subject: pkg database To: stable@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 15:23:53 -0700 (MST) Reply-To: chad@rez.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe maybe this went by a couple of months back, but... Whenever I CVSup 2.2-STABLE, a file (/var/db/pgk/.mkversion) gets installed on my machine. This, in turn, causes pkg_info to complain: chad> pkg_info -Ia > /dev/null pkg_info: can't change directory to '/var/db/pkg/.mkversion'! I looked at the pkg_info code; it expects every entry in /var/db/pkg to be a directory. My fix has been to delete the file. What's the "official" fix? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) REZsolutions, Inc. 602-870-3330 chad.larson@REZsolutions.com chad@rez.com 7500 North Dreamy Draw Drive, Suite 120, Phoenix, Az 85020 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 17:59:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from ns.itga.com.au (ns.itga.com.au [192.83.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94A414C8A for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:59:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by ns.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06805 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:59:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13867; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:59:09 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199911260159.MAA13867@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 From: Gregory Bond To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: cvsup, cvs & directory permissions.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:59:09 +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I maintain /usr/ncvs via cvsup. By default, the directories in /usr/ncvs are root.wheel, mode 755. This means you need to be root to do a "cvs get" because RCS needs to create lock files in the cvs repository. I often check out various bits of the -CURRENT source so I can compare with what's in /usr/src (which is -STABLE). I wanted to do this as me rather than root, for all the obvious reasons. So I chmod'd all the directories to 775, I was already in group wheel, and all was fine. Until the next cvsup which did a heap of SetAttrs operations and put the directories back to 775. :< Is there some simple way of getting around this? A quick peruse of the CVS man didn 't suggest any way of turning off the RCS locking. The cvsup man page didn't seem to have a flag to say "ignore directory modes". Do I just give up and do it as root? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 18: 3:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pawn.primelocation.net (pawn.primelocation.net [205.161.238.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48DF14A06 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:03:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdf.lists@fxp.org) Received: by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix, from userid 1016) id C0D119B38; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:03:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pawn.primelocation.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AACBA21; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:03:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:03:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris D. Faulhaber" X-Sender: cdf.lists@pawn.primelocation.net To: Gregory Bond Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup, cvs & directory permissions.... In-Reply-To: <199911260159.MAA13867@lightning.itga.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Gregory Bond wrote: > Is there some simple way of getting around this? A quick peruse of the CVS man > didn 't suggest any way of turning off the RCS locking. The cvsup man page > didn't seem to have a flag to say "ignore directory modes". Do I just give > up and do it as root? > From cvs(1): -R Turns on read-only repository mode. i.e. cvs -R co .... ----- Chris D. Faulhaber | All the true gurus I've met never System/Network Administrator, | claimed they were one, and always Reality Check Information, Inc. | pointed to someone better. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 18:14: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from ns.itga.com.au (ns.itga.com.au [192.83.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7006D14C3F for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:13:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by ns.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06860; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:13:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14397; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:13:50 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199911260213.NAA14397@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 From: Gregory Bond To: "Chris D. Faulhaber" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup, cvs & directory permissions.... In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:03:10 -0500. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:13:50 +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Chris D. Faulhaber" wrote: > >From cvs(1): > -R Turns on read-only repository mode. Well aren't I a complete goose. I originally looked in the cvs man page on our Solaris system, for which -R is "recurse", rather than the FreeBSD system, where (as Chris pointed out) -R is "readonly". Oddly, both claim to be CVS 1.10 `Halibut' (the others were all too flat.) Greg, Red-faced. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 18:18: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED46214C44 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02135; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:47:49 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3.1 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199911260213.NAA14397@lightning.itga.com.au> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:47:49 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Gregory Bond Subject: Re: cvsup, cvs & directory permissions.... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, "Chris D. Faulhaber" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Nov-99 Gregory Bond wrote: > "readonly". Oddly, both claim to be CVS 1.10 `Halibut' (the others were all > too flat.) Well actually.. cvs -R update means assume a read only repo.. cvs update -R means recurse :) (Well update recurses by default, but you get the idea) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 18:36:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc3.on.home.com (ha1.rdc3.on.home.com [24.2.9.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2259914F3A for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:35:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cwass99@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.114.108.234]) by mail.rdc3.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19991126023353.ESEC6014.mail.rdc3.on.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:33:53 -0800 Message-ID: <383DF187.4EB4A176@home.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:33:43 -0500 From: Colin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: <11244.943555121@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > -current (all the latest greatest experimental). > > -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). > > -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug > > fixes after release). > > Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for > now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still > running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits > to the 2.2.x branch. > > - Jordan > I can't believe this is a surprise to that many people. Any major software has users running anything from the latest/greatest (-current) to something they got some time in the past that works great (2.x) to every possible combination in between. My point is, if a new release every quarter scares you, upgrade once/year (except bugfixes/security patches) and get on with your life. I used 3.0 for several months and life was good, and it still runs on one of my machines. I upgraded this one for several reasons that were specific to me, your requirements will vary. For those of you who think FreeBSD changes too quickly, look around the industry. How many "patch sets" from the other *ix vendors (released monthly to quarterly) include new features? Cheers, Colin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 19:43: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E94C14C94 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from forrestc@workhorse.iMach.com) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24571; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:34:24 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:34:24 -0700 (MST) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: Colin Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <383DF187.4EB4A176@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm, this brings up another interesting question. First, to put this in context: Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for > now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still > running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits > to the 2.2.x branch. And, Colin wrote: > My point is, if a new release every quarter scares you, upgrade > once/year (except bugfixes/security patches) and get on with your life. > I used 3.0 for several months and life was good, and it still runs on > one of my machines. I upgraded this one for several reasons that were > specific to me, your requirements will vary. Ok, so, let's assume I JUST want to incorporate bugfixes into the -RELEASE (be it 3.x or whatever) that I have on a particular machine. How would I go about doing this? I have machines all the way from 2.2.2-RELEASE through 3.3-RELEASE, and even one I track -STABLE on (for both development of a PicoBSD-based "product" I am doing and also to keep the OS up to date). It would be nice to leave the 3.x machines "alone" except for bugfixes. The 2.2.2-RELEASE machine has been ignored for a LONG time as it would be a pain to upgrade/rebuild. I plan on replacing it this month. - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) KD7EHZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 20: 7:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E53B14BDC for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2E9831C57; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6AC384D; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:09:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:09:07 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: Marcin Cieslak , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: > What I'd propose is one additional "track". "Branch" is the typical name for these things. I'll just offer that bitrot is a serious reason why we don't need another branch. As for 'missioncritical', we simply call it 'errata'. -- - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 25 20:59:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00FD14C36 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mail.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mail.theinternet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA50219; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:08:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199911260508.PAA50219@mail.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: from Bill Fumerola at "Nov 25, 1999 10: 9: 7 pm" To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:08:49 +1000 (EST) Cc: forrestc@iMach.com, saper@system.pl, stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Bill Fumerola ]--------------------------------------------- | On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: | | > What I'd propose is one additional "track". | | "Branch" is the typical name for these things. | | I'll just offer that bitrot is a serious reason why we don't need | another branch. | | As for 'missioncritical', we simply call it 'errata'. Once a year we can just do a diff between the current version and the one from a year previous and issue a Jumbo Patch :-) -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au| To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 0:46:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97ACF14F98 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@ANDRSN.STANFORD.EDU) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA30043; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:40:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:40:35 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: Kent Stewart Cc: Doug White , jack , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <383DA58A.58AF5FFA@3-cities.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I remember figuring out a few releases ago that most of the problems occurred with the cdroms, and did not show up at all for people who were getting source and doing make worlds. It's getting increasingly possible to really test a release, since people can download an iso and burn it. This is probably a somewhat different group than the group that tracks -stable with sources. You'd have to ask them to do this and be ready to thank them for making the effort even if some of the problems they reported were clearly pilot error. Maybe they could sign up as beta-testers and get a package of stickers or something in return for the time and effort, and have some way to label a message to identify themselves when they report (and perhaps fill out the answers to some standard questions). I would think you could find a few bright young committers willing to sort through these responses and flag the real problems. This approach would formalize part of the process but doesn't seem to do any violence to the concept of a participatory volunteer community. Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 2:20:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 5E34914E9A; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 02:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEF11CD446; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 02:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 02:20:11 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Erik Wenzel Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Buildworld Failure In-Reply-To: <19991125144541.A14912@todo.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, Erik Wenzel wrote: > I am trying to 'make world' for a week. With similar error codes you > reported. Today 'make world' exits this way: > > make world > [...] > ===> gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt > rm -f uuxqt uuxqt.o util.o log.o copy.o uuxqt.8.gz uuxqt.8.cat.gz > rm -f .depend /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GPATH > /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GRTAGS > /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GSYMS > /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/uuxqt/GTAGS > ===> gnu/usr.bin > make: don't know how to make cleandir. Stop > *** Error code 2 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. This doesn't look much like the previous poster's errors (which were related to the netgraph integration). It looks to me like your source tree is screwed: there haven't been any commit in that area in stable for a while (i.e. since 3.3-R). Try blowing away the Makefile, or everything in the subdirectory, and re-supping. Kris ---- Just remember, as you celebrate Thanksgiving with your family feasts of turkey, cranberries, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, squash, corn, cornbread, apples, pickles, dumplings, fish, orangutans, fruitbats, breakfast cereals, and so forth, to keep in mind the true reason for the season: The birth of Santa. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 3:19:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mayn.de (airbus.mayn.de [194.145.150.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CEE0514E5A for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 03:19:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from token@wuff.mayn.de) Received: (qmail 415 invoked from network); 26 Nov 1999 11:19:33 -0000 Received: from wuff.mayn.de (qmailr@194.145.150.17) by airbus.mayn.de with SMTP; 26 Nov 1999 11:19:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27715 invoked by uid 603); 26 Nov 1999 11:17:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19991126121732.B27425@wuff.mayn.de> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:17:32 +0100 From: Matthias Buelow To: "Forrest W. Christian" , Marcin Cieslak Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Forrest W. Christian on Thu, Nov 25, 1999 at 10:58:14AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forrest W. Christian wrote: > -current (all the latest greatest experimental). > -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). > -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug >fixes after release). Hmm... wouldn't that degrade -stable and disqualify it for applications that are mission critical and for which it would be well suited? People would probably be very confused and ask why something that isn't mission critical is tagged "stable". mkb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 3:45:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk (cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk [194.207.180.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4858C15003 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 03:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from l.farr@epcdirect.co.uk) Received: from monkey (pepe.sixforty.co.uk [194.207.180.202]) by cloudbase.sixforty.co.uk (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28447 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:29:31 GMT Reply-To: From: "Lawrence Farr" To: Subject: RE: Annelise's Comments Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:40:58 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Although I am on this list, I do not yet have the necessary skills to fix or spot the low level problems discussed here, but being responsible for FreeBSD/Linux/Windows9x/2000/NT/Mac OS on a daily basis, have to deal with "ordinary" problems with FreeBSD. I would gladly devote some of my time to the tasks of finding install problems etc., rather than fixing code (Which I can't!). This any help? Lawrence Farr EPC Direct T:01179666123 F:01179666111 M:07970780901 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 5:57:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.182.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E381503E for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 05:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ferdl@atommuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at) Received: from sondermuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at (sondermuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.214.105]) by alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18444 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:57:28 +0100 Received: from atommuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at (root@atommuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.214.101]) by sondermuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24335 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:56:05 +0100 Received: from localhost (ferdl@localhost) by atommuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA54896 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:57:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ferdl@atommuell.oeh.uni-linz.ac.at) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:57:32 +0100 (CET) From: Ferdinand Goldmann To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: ForeRunner LE155 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings. I have here an ATM Card, type ForeRunner LE 155. The FreeBSD LINT files says: # The `hfa' driver provides support for the FORE Systems, Inc. # PCA-200E ATM PCI Adapter. Is there any chance that a ForeRunner LE155 will work with this driver, or am I out of luck. FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE is the OS in question. If 3.3 does not support it, is there support in 4.0 maybe? TIA, Ferdinand To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 9:31: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from tank.skynet.be (tank.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D48815075 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:30:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@foxbert.skynet.be) Received: from foxbert.skynet.be (foxbert.skynet.be [195.238.1.45]) by tank.skynet.be (8.9.3/odie-relay-v1.0) with ESMTP id SAA21732; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:30:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from root@localhost) by foxbert.skynet.be (8.9.1/jovi-pop-2.1) id SAA06480; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:30:31 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@foxbert.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:30:19 +0100 To: Jim King , danh@wzrd.com (Dan Harnett) From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: OpenSSH for -STABLE? Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:21 PM -0600 1999/11/19, Jim King wrote: > It happened to me too. I did "make clean" for the OpenSSL port > and then everything went OK. I assumed it was because something > was leftover from a previous attempt at building OpenSSL, but > maybe something is wacky with the port. Sorry, it's taken me a while to get back to this on a machine that is more up-to-date. Anyway, I've just cvsup'ed both ports & source, done a "make buildworld" and "make installworld" [0], etc... and a "make clean" does appear to have been required within the openssl directory. Don't ask me why. I don't understand. However, it still bombs out. I'm now trying a "make fetchsrctarball" within /usr/ports/security/openssh to see if my previous attempts to install it might be interfering with my current attempts. If so, then it looks like the "make clean" and "make distclean" commands that I had run (after cvsup'ing and making world) aren't complete. [0] cd /usr/src && /usr/bin/time -lp make installworld tells me: real 520.14 user 93.50 sys 66.69 3376 maximum resident set size 201 average shared memory size 323 average unshared data size 129 average unshared stack size 388776 page reclaims 9287 page faults 0 swaps 12741 block input operations 15428 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 0 signals received 42511 voluntary context switches 16899 involuntary context switches -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ____________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 9:57:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from dozer.skynet.be (dozer.skynet.be [195.238.2.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F43014BF8 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@foxbert.skynet.be) Received: from foxbert.skynet.be (foxbert.skynet.be [195.238.1.45]) by dozer.skynet.be (8.9.3/odie-relay-v1.0) with ESMTP id SAA17038; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:57:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from root@localhost) by foxbert.skynet.be (8.9.1/jovi-pop-2.1) id SAA18517; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:56:59 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@foxbert.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:52:42 +0100 To: Jim King , danh@wzrd.com (Dan Harnett) From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: OpenSSH for -STABLE? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 6:30 PM +0100 1999/11/26, Brad Knowles wrote: > However, it still bombs out. I'm now trying a "make fetchsrctarball" > within /usr/ports/security/openssh to see if my previous attempts to > install it might be interfering with my current attempts. If so, then > it looks like the "make clean" and "make distclean" commands that I had > run (after cvsup'ing and making world) aren't complete. I brute-forced removal by rm -rf on /usr/ports/distfiles/OpenSSH* and rm -rf /usr/ports/security/openssh/work (as well as a "make distclean" in /usr/ports/security/openssl), and then starting over. However, it still bombs. It gets down to: Copy /usr/local/openssl/openssl.cnf.sample to /usr/local/openssl/openssl.cnf and edit it to fit your needs. ===> Registering installation for openssl-0.9.4 ===> Returning to build of OpenSSH-1.2 ===> Patching for OpenSSH-1.2 ===> Applying FreeBSD patches for OpenSSH-1.2 ===> Configuring for OpenSSH-1.2 ===> Building for OpenSSH-1.2 ===> lib Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib cc -O -pipe -I/usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/.. -I/usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/.. -I/usr/local/usr/include -c /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c -o authfd.o In file included from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../ssh.h:21, from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c:19: /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../rsa.h:21: openssl/bn.h: No such file or directory /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../rsa.h:22: openssl/rsa.h: No such file or directory In file included from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../ssh.h:22, from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c:19: /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../cipher.h:19: openssl/des.h: No such file or directory /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../cipher.h:20: openssl/blowfish.h: No such file or directory /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c:27: openssl/rsa.h: No such file or directory I'm stumped. I'm pretty sure I've got the absolute latest ports of OpenSSH, OpenSSL, as well as the most up-to-date FreeBSD-STABLE that I can get, and this still doesn't work. Anybody got any other ideas? > [0] cd /usr/src && /usr/bin/time -lp make installworld tells me: BTW, /usr/bin/time -lp make buildworld returns: real 5629.65 user 4175.87 sys 733.39 10440 maximum resident set size 723 average shared memory size 755 average unshared data size 129 average unshared stack size 5926621 page reclaims 3228 page faults 0 swaps 31718 block input operations 33280 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 7 signals received 337599 voluntary context switches 275150 involuntary context switches -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ____________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 10:40:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (diarmadhi.mushhaven.net [63.75.111.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B2B1520E for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:39:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf@diarmadhi.mushhaven.net) Received: (from mistwolf@localhost) by diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08311; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:37:22 -0800 From: Jamie Norwood To: Matthias Buelow Cc: "Forrest W. Christian" , Marcin Cieslak , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Message-ID: <19991126103722.A8292@mushhaven.net> References: <19991126121732.B27425@wuff.mayn.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <19991126121732.B27425@wuff.mayn.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 12:17:32PM +0100, Matthias Buelow wrote: > Forrest W. Christian wrote: > > > -current (all the latest greatest experimental). > > -stable (all the latest gretest "Stable" stuff). > > -missioncritical (conservative release, once a year or so - only bug > >fixes after release). > > Hmm... wouldn't that degrade -stable and disqualify it for applications > that are mission critical and for which it would be well suited? > People would probably be very confused and ask why something that > isn't mission critical is tagged "stable". I thought that was what -release was, bugfixes and security issues only? Jamie > > mkb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11: 1:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl4.philips.com (gw-nl4.philips.com [192.68.44.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A047C1510F for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl4.philips.com with ESMTP id UAA06807 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:01:31 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl4.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma006805; Fri, 26 Nov 99 20:01:31 +0100 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with SMTP id UAA01493 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:01:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 39304 invoked by uid 666); 26 Nov 1999 19:01:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:01:52 +0100 From: Jos Backus To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenSSH for -STABLE? Message-ID: <19991126200152.A39178@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from blk@skynet.be on Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 06:52:42PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 06:52:42PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > cc -O -pipe -I/usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/.. > -I/usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/.. > -I/usr/local/usr/include -c > /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c -o authfd.o > In file included from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../ssh.h:21, > from /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../authfd.c:19: > /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../rsa.h:21: openssl/bn.h: > No such file or directory > /usr/ports/security/openssh/work/ssh/lib/../rsa.h:22: openssl/rsa.h: > No such file or directory I sent this patch to Brian Feldman earlier today: --- work/ssh/Makefile.inc.orig Fri Nov 26 19:59:42 1999 +++ work/ssh/Makefile.inc Fri Nov 26 19:59:59 1999 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/.. +CFLAGS+= -I${PREFIX}/include -I${.CURDIR}/.. .include -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11: 8:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3CB0150A1 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:08:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13835; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Troy Settle" Cc: "Doug White" , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:51:06 EST." Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:08:15 -0800 Message-ID: <13831.943643295@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > A suggestion if I might. > > Not everyone has the time to do proper preparation for testing a release > candidate. But, if provided with a copy of the CD, I'm sure you could find > enough people to test and report problems. The problem with this idea is that even 10 CDs are labor intensive since we have to do it on a CD burner and this takes time and manual disk-jockying. There's just no way to replicate < 1000 CDs at a time in a cost-effecitve fashion. That's why I'm working on generating ISO images on a daily basis and will announce it when I have this working. That way people can just burn their own one-offs, and I know of enough people with good network connectivity and access to CDRs that I am sure this will result in more CDs in people's hands than we could produce here (without going insane). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11:16:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (diarmadhi.mushhaven.net [63.75.111.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF3A150E8 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf@diarmadhi.mushhaven.net) Received: (from mistwolf@localhost) by diarmadhi.mushhaven.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10979; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mistwolf) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:15:00 -0800 From: Jamie Norwood To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Troy Settle , Doug White , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... Message-ID: <19991126111500.A10948@mushhaven.net> References: <13831.943643295@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <13831.943643295@zippy.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 11:08:15AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > A suggestion if I might. > > > > Not everyone has the time to do proper preparation for testing a release > > candidate. But, if provided with a copy of the CD, I'm sure you could find > > enough people to test and report problems. Maybe easier would be designating a CVS branch for ISO image source/binaries, and making a script to convert them to an ISO, so people testing on an ongoing basis could only download the changes and not the full 650MB image every day or three. Is this feasible or likely? Jamie > > The problem with this idea is that even 10 CDs are labor intensive since we > have to do it on a CD burner and this takes time and manual disk-jockying. > There's just no way to replicate < 1000 CDs at a time in a cost-effecitve > fashion. > > That's why I'm working on generating ISO images on a daily basis and > will announce it when I have this working. That way people can just > burn their own one-offs, and I know of enough people with good network > connectivity and access to CDRs that I am sure this will result in > more CDs in people's hands than we could produce here (without going > insane). > > - Jordan > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11:17:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from milk.k0t.lucky.net (milk.k0t.lucky.net [193.193.192.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AEA15544 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from artur@noo.kiev.ua) Received: from noo.kiev.ua (host1.0.10.10.intranet [10.10.0.1]) by milk.k0t.lucky.net (8.Who.Cares/Kilkenny_is_better) with ESMTP id VAA75407 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:17:34 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from artur@noo.kiev.ua) From: artur@noo.kiev.ua Received: from Artur (unknown.noo.kiev.ua [10.10.0.2] (may be forged)) by noo.kiev.ua (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA01343 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:38:33 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from artur@noo.kiev.ua) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:38:33 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199911261938.VAA01343@noo.kiev.ua> To: Subject: Promotion offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Good moning! Today I visited Your web-site and thought "May be it needs promotion?" I made some automatic promotion tools and needs to improve and test it. If You interesting a web advertising and promotion You can visit http://www.terra.ee/noo/ and launch automatic promotion by filling a form and placing small text in Your page. First stage recommended, it is free of charge. May be my know-how is greate, may be it is nothing. Sorry, if You will decide this is spam. My e-mail is artur@noo.kiev.ua, this is one time offer to e-mail from Your web page. Any questions are welcome. Best regards Artur Frolov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11:29:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95801151D3 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14002; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: Colin , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:34:24 MST." Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:29:52 -0800 Message-ID: <13998.943644592@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, so, let's assume I JUST want to incorporate bugfixes into the -RELEASE > (be it 3.x or whatever) that I have on a particular machine. How would I > go about doing this? If it's a new bug fix, file a PR. If it's a merge case, plead to committers for a merge to your branch of choice. With 185 committers or whatever our number is this week, it's generally not hard to find a sympathetic ear for specific requests. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 11:35:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28FB150A1 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14050; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:35:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jamie Norwood Cc: Troy Settle , Doug White , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of 3.4... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:15:00 PST." <19991126111500.A10948@mushhaven.net> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <14046.943644931@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > basis could only download the changes and not the full 650MB image every > day or three. Is this feasible or likely? No, not really, but happily the ISO images in question won't be anywhere close to that size. I'm not including the full package sets for the test ISOs. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 12:28:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63D01556B for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from forrestc@workhorse.iMach.com) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29122; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:19:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:19:01 -0700 (MST) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Colin , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <13998.943644592@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Leaving Jordan's original message for context) I think I just "got it". Is the following description correct: (Ignoring -CURRENT for a minute). You have stable tracking along with "snapshots" like: -STABLE-19991001 -STABLE-19991002 -STABLE-19991005 and so on. (Exact naming convention might be sligtly different) My original assumption was that this occured: -STABLE-19991201 - Feature Freeze -STABLE-19991206 - Bug fixes incorporated -STABLE-19991212 - Final bug fixes incorporated -STABLE-19991215 - release - EXACTLY the same as -RELEASE, no new branch -STABLE-19991216 - Back to "stable normallity" I believe what I am hearing is that in reality what occurs is this: -STABLE-19991212 - Final bug fixes incorporated -STABLE-19991215 - release, NEW BRANCH CREATED. And then we have both: -STABLE-19991216 - next stable "snapshot" ...and so on -RELEASE-19991220 - release bugfixes ...and so on. So in all reality, I could track -RELEASE on a machine instead of -STABLE to get bug fixes. Of course, I would also have to help encorage someone to merge "critical" bug-fixes back into the appropriate -RELEASE. Is this correct? If not, where did I err? -forrestc@imach.com On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Ok, so, let's assume I JUST want to incorporate bugfixes into the -RELEASE > > (be it 3.x or whatever) that I have on a particular machine. How would I > > go about doing this? > > If it's a new bug fix, file a PR. If it's a merge case, plead to > committers for a merge to your branch of choice. With 185 > committers or whatever our number is this week, it's generally not > hard to find a sympathetic ear for specific requests. > > - Jordan > - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) KD7EHZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 12:43:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 3D7D41569F; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14DCF1CD620; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colin , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: > (Leaving Jordan's original message for context) > > I think I just "got it". Is the following description correct: Unfortunately it looks like Jordan misinterpreted your question - you were right the first time. Once a -RELEASE is out the door it stays that way. A -RELEASE is a snapshot of -STABLE at a particular point in tim (see the FAQ for a pretty ascii picture of the process). You were asking for a track which is "-RELEASE + bugfixes", which doesn't strictly exist -- but the thing which most people seem to be missing in this discussion is that what goes into -stable *IS* 95% bugfixes (or trivial changes like adding an option to a command). Trying to add major new features from -current often has the nasty habit of breaking things, so it isn't done much, and most of the new features come in the next (x.0-RELEASE) version. -STABLE seems to be what you (and a lot of other people in this discussion) want, you just might not know it. Kris ---- Just remember, as you celebrate Thanksgiving with your family feasts of turkey, cranberries, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes, squash, corn, cornbread, apples, pickles, dumplings, fish, orangutans, fruitbats, breakfast cereals, and so forth, to keep in mind the true reason for the season: The birth of Santa. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 13:16:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6766814A06 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.1b+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id WAA13957; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:16:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from sziszi by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu with local-smtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11rSWl-0004Pc-00; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:03:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:03:34 +0100 (CET) From: Adam Szilveszter Reply-To: Adam Szilveszter To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: > > I think I just "got it". Is the following description correct: > > I believe what I am hearing is that in reality what occurs is this: > > -STABLE-19991212 - Final bug fixes incorporated > -STABLE-19991215 - release, NEW BRANCH CREATED. > > And then we have both: > > -STABLE-19991216 - next stable "snapshot" > ...and so on > > -RELEASE-19991220 - release bugfixes > ...and so on. > > Is this correct? If not, where did I err? Hmmmm... almost correct. What happens is this: 3.3-19991212-STABLE (Last fixes, say) 3.4-RELEASE (It is marked as such and not placed in the "snapshots" dir on the ftp servers, instead you can find it in the releases dir.) 3.4-19991220-STABLE (Life back to normal) However, there are no more 3.3-STABLE snapshots... it is because we have only two branches (or three, if you want it) at any on time: They are at present: - 2.2.x for the previous-stable. Still occasional commits occur and maybe even snapshots are produced. (I have just found one for 2.2.8 from Nov. 10) - 3.x for now-stable. It does not matter if it is 3.1 or 3.2 or whatever, it is a continous stream of bug fixes and improvements and only reflects the releases in its numbering scheme. - 4.x for current. After 4.0 becomes release, it will become stable, 3.x will be the previous-stable and 5.x will be current. Of course the whole thing only applies if you do binary upgrades. If you cvsup you will never see the RELEASE tag, it will only change from 3.3-STABLE to 3.4-STABLE. (or at least I have not seen it, only after a total reinstall) Sorry if this has been obvious... As others have pointed out, there is no strict fixes-only branch, but sometimes it is truly hard to tell the difference between a fix and a new feature. There are cases where the two are logically dependent. But I do not know of any other OS, that would have the thing you are asking for. Even WinNT, where they are cautious not to give you the new features for free in SP-s because they could also charge separately for the upgrade, often brings new features between the versions. Only with Win98 did they make this, they gave the bugfixes for free via Windows Update but if you also wanted the new features, you had to pay. But this has been the only case, really, that I have heard of. (Earlier there were no bug fixes at all for Win:-) You had to wait for the next release instead.) I think one could consider the whole of the 3.x branch as one edition of the OS and the minor numbers can then become service releases or whatever. (If it makes anybody more comfortable:-) It really is a continous stream of development which is broken up into releases for the sake of those who cannot cvsup or do a binary upgrade over the Net, and also for selling the CDs and raising money and in order to demonstrate to third parties where we have arrived this far and also to give beginners a chance to get on the train (theoretically they could do this via a binary snapshot as well, but snapshots are not printed on CDs and are not carried by all mirrors due to space concerns, whereas releases are. (That is why you can see -STABLE to be just a symlink to the -RELEASE dir in some ftp sites.) So yes, as some have said the releases within one branch could also be named snaps. But this is already taken, it is for binary shots between particular releases.:-) This is sometimes not trivial to follow, BTW. On OpenBSD, for example, there is only one branch, it is constantly evolving and is now between releases 2.5 and 2.6 en route. If you are interested in new features and fixes, you check out a snapshot. (Mostly binary, CVSup only appeared recently) If you are not so daring, you use the previous release and if they find some nasty security bugs (that's what they are after in the first place:-) they post a patch for *THAT* maybe it is the closest to what you were having in mind... Sorry for the long post, if it has been all known to all of you... Cheers: Szilveszter ADAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Adam Szilveszter * JATE Szeged * email: sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu * * Homepage : none * alternate email: cc@flanker.itl.net.ua * * Finger sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu for PGP key. * * I prefer using the door instead of Windows(tm)... * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 13:28:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sasknow.com (h139-142-245-96.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0157E15077 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:28:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08888 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:28:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:28:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: adduser.conf/adduser.message? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have /etc/adduser.conf and /etc/adduser.message been removed since 3.2? I'm working off of 3.3-19991124-STABLE, and the files are not present. They DO exist on my older 3.2 system, though. (Couldn't find them in /usr/src, either). Ryan Thompson 50% Owner, Technical and Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 13:35: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (GndRsh.dnsmgr.net [198.145.92.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB6115077 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA52307; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199911262134.NAA52307@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: adduser.conf/adduser.message? In-Reply-To: from Ryan Thompson at "Nov 26, 1999 03:28:46 pm" To: freebsd@sasknow.com (Ryan Thompson) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:34:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have /etc/adduser.conf and /etc/adduser.message been removed since 3.2? > I'm working off of 3.3-19991124-STABLE, and the files are not present. > They DO exist on my older 3.2 system, though. (Couldn't find them in > /usr/src, either). The are created on a system the first time you run adduser, until you run it at least once and tell it to save the configuration these files won't exist. /etc/adduser.message may or may not be created depending on how you answer questions the first time you run adduser. You can read the source to adduser, ``more /usr/sbin/adduser'', it's just a perl script... -- Rod Grimes - KD7CAX @ CN85sl - (RWG25) rgrimes@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 13:47: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sasknow.com (h139-142-245-96.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8A414A1F for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:46:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09028; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:46:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:46:45 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adduser.conf/adduser.message? In-Reply-To: <199911262134.NAA52307@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yeah... I felt a little on the stupid side a few minutes ago when I tried just that. Forget I even asked :-) Ryan Thompson 50% Owner, Technical and Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Have /etc/adduser.conf and /etc/adduser.message been removed since 3.2? > > I'm working off of 3.3-19991124-STABLE, and the files are not present. > > They DO exist on my older 3.2 system, though. (Couldn't find them in > > /usr/src, either). > > The are created on a system the first time you run adduser, until you > run it at least once and tell it to save the configuration these files > won't exist. /etc/adduser.message may or may not be created depending > on how you answer questions the first time you run adduser. > > You can read the source to adduser, ``more /usr/sbin/adduser'', it's > just a perl script... > > > -- > Rod Grimes - KD7CAX @ CN85sl - (RWG25) rgrimes@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 15:30:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039E414C19 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daemon@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id AAA15620 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:30:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04636 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:43:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: OpenSSH for -STABLE? Date: 26 Nov 1999 23:43:01 +0100 Message-ID: <81n2dl$4gh$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> References: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brad Knowles wrote: > I'm stumped. I'm pretty sure I've got the absolute latest ports > of OpenSSH, That's the problem. Brian broke the port in the latest revision and hasn't fixed it yet. diff -uNr /usr/ports/security/openssh/Makefile openssh/Makefile --- /usr/ports/security/openssh/Makefile Wed Nov 24 06:21:02 1999 +++ openssh/Makefile Wed Nov 24 14:46:20 1999 @@ -22,7 +22,6 @@ CAT?= /bin/cat DISTFILES!= ${CAT} ${FILESDIR}/distfiles -CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_OPENPTY -I${PREFIX}/include CVS_CMD?= cvs -z3 CVS_DATE= Tue Nov 23 18:52:21 EST 1999 SED?= /usr/bin/sed diff -uNr /usr/ports/security/openssh/patches/patch-ab openssh/patches/patch-ab --- /usr/ports/security/openssh/patches/patch-ab Wed Nov 24 06:21:02 1999 +++ openssh/patches/patch-ab Wed Nov 24 14:46:09 1999 @@ -1,6 +1,8 @@ ---- /usr/ports/distfiles/OpenSSH-1.2/src/usr.bin/ssh/Makefile.inc Mon Oct 25 16:27:26 1999 -+++ ./Makefile.inc Tue Nov 23 19:19:33 1999 -@@ -2,10 +2,9 @@ +--- Makefile.inc.orig Wed Nov 24 14:44:41 1999 ++++ Makefile.inc Wed Nov 24 14:45:37 1999 +@@ -1,11 +1,10 @@ +-CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/.. ++CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_OPENPTY -I${PREFIX}/include -I${.CURDIR}/.. .include -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 15:31:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from tank.skynet.be (tank.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4635214C19; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:31:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@foxbert.skynet.be) Received: from foxbert.skynet.be (foxbert.skynet.be [195.238.1.45]) by tank.skynet.be (8.9.3/odie-relay-v1.0) with ESMTP id AAA05441; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:31:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from root@localhost) by foxbert.skynet.be (8.9.1/jovi-pop-2.1) id AAA11626; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:31:04 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@foxbert.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991126200152.A39178@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19991119131954.00a8e238@mail.sstar.com> <19991126200152.A39178@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:20:46 +0100 To: Jos Backus , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: OpenSSH for -STABLE? Cc: green@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 8:01 PM +0100 1999/11/26, Jos Backus wrote: > I sent this patch to Brian Feldman earlier today: > > --- work/ssh/Makefile.inc.orig Fri Nov 26 19:59:42 1999 > +++ work/ssh/Makefile.inc Fri Nov 26 19:59:59 1999 > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > -CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/.. > +CFLAGS+= -I${PREFIX}/include -I${.CURDIR}/.. That got me something that will compile and appears to run. I've got another problem, but I'll take this off the -stable list. Thanks again! -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ____________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, News & FTP Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.11.11/12.49 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 20:30:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from sasknow.com (h139-142-245-96.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83EB14E41 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11418 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:30:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:30:47 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: /usr/ports/apache13-ssl in 3.3-19991124-STABLE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I tried a make all install of apache13-ssl from Wednesday's current just now, and the test compile failed when configuring for Apache (all dependencies seemed to build fine). Running the configure script in /usr/ports/www/apache13-ssl/work/apache_1.3.9 didn't have any more success, although it DID say there that it was using gcc as the default compiler. Sorry I can't provide any more detail than this; perhaps somebody else with a little more time on their hands has come across the same problem? What follows is my last attempt to do the make: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Script started on Fri Nov 26 15:45:48 1999 ===> Extracting for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 >> Checksum OK for apache_1.3.9.tar.gz. >> Checksum OK for apache_1.3.9+ssl_1.37.tar.gz. ===> apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 depends on executable: openssl - found ===> apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 depends on shared library: crypto.1 - found ===> apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 depends on shared library: ssl.1 - found ===> Patching for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 ===> Applying FreeBSD patches for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 Searching for a usable OpenSSL installation or source directory Looks like you are using OpenSSL, adjusting app name SSLeay installation found in: /usr/local Using the installed version of SSLeay found in /usr/local If this is not what you want stop now and specify the path to SSLeay explicitly. Your version of patch is OK. Hmm... Looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/Makefile.tmpl ./Makefile.tmpl |--- ../apache_1.3.9/Makefile.tmpl Fri Aug 13 06:58:18 1999 |+++ ./Makefile.tmpl Mon Sep 6 16:28:06 1999 -------------------------- Patching file Makefile.tmpl using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 275. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/configure ./configure |--- ../apache_1.3.9/configure Sat Aug 14 08:29:05 1999 |+++ ./configure Mon Sep 6 16:28:06 1999 -------------------------- Patching file configure using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 775. Hunk #2 succeeded at 1022. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configuration ./src/Configuration |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configuration Mon Aug 16 18:40:04 1999 |+++ ./src/Configuration Thu Sep 9 19:40:16 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/Configuration using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 62. Hunk #2 succeeded at 235. Hunk #3 succeeded at 456. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configuration.tmpl ./src/Configuration.tmpl |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configuration.tmpl Sat Aug 14 08:35:43 1999 |+++ ./src/Configuration.tmpl Mon Sep 6 16:28:07 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/Configuration.tmpl using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 62. Hunk #2 succeeded at 235. Hunk #3 succeeded at 456. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configure ./src/Configure |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/Configure Mon Aug 16 00:49:08 1999 |+++ ./src/Configure Tue Sep 7 16:58:07 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/Configure using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 821. Hunk #2 succeeded at 1650. Hunk #3 succeeded at 1945. Hunk #4 succeeded at 2127. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/Makefile.tmpl ./src/Makefile.tmpl |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/Makefile.tmpl Tue May 25 10:15:04 1999 |+++ ./src/Makefile.tmpl Mon Sep 6 16:28:07 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/Makefile.tmpl using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 30. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/ap_config.h ./src/include/ap_config.h |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/ap_config.h Mon Aug 9 07:38:45 1999 |+++ ./src/include/ap_config.h Mon Sep 6 16:28:07 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/include/ap_config.h using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 501. Hunk #2 succeeded at 1395. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/buff.h ./src/include/buff.h |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/buff.h Fri Jan 1 19:04:39 1999 |+++ ./src/include/buff.h Mon Sep 6 16:28:07 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/include/buff.h using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 61. Hunk #2 succeeded at 144. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/http_main.h ./src/include/http_main.h |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/http_main.h Fri Jan 1 19:04:40 1999 |+++ ./src/include/http_main.h Mon Sep 6 16:28:08 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/include/http_main.h using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 115. Hunk #2 succeeded at 165. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/httpd.h ./src/include/httpd.h |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/include/httpd.h Mon Aug 16 17:57:53 1999 |+++ ./src/include/httpd.h Mon Sep 6 16:31:26 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/include/httpd.h using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 66. Hunk #2 succeeded at 143. Hunk #3 succeeded at 429. Hunk #4 succeeded at 874. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/Makefile.tmpl ./src/main/Makefile.tmpl |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/Makefile.tmpl Tue Jan 12 15:47:00 1999 |+++ ./src/main/Makefile.tmpl Mon Sep 6 16:28:08 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/main/Makefile.tmpl using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 14. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/buff.c ./src/main/buff.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/buff.c Thu Jul 29 18:13:40 1999 |+++ ./src/main/buff.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:08 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/main/buff.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 72. Hunk #2 succeeded at 246. Hunk #3 succeeded at 328. Hunk #4 succeeded at 344. Hunk #5 succeeded at 460. Hunk #6 succeeded at 1200. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/http_log.c ./src/main/http_log.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/http_log.c Sun May 30 08:55:29 1999 |+++ ./src/main/http_log.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:08 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/main/http_log.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 307. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/http_main.c ./src/main/http_main.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/http_main.c Tue Aug 10 13:54:48 1999 |+++ ./src/main/http_main.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:09 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/main/http_main.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 364. Hunk #2 succeeded at 1284. Hunk #3 succeeded at 4032. Hunk #4 succeeded at 4962. Hunk #5 succeeded at 5279. Hunk #6 succeeded at 6326. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/util_script.c ./src/main/util_script.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/main/util_script.c Thu Aug 12 18:34:15 1999 |+++ ./src/main/util_script.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:09 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/main/util_script.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 308. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/modules/standard/mod_log_config.c ./src/modules/standard/mod_log_config.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/modules/standard/mod_log_config.c Tue Jun 22 00:51:35 1999 |+++ ./src/modules/standard/mod_log_config.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:09 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/modules/standard/mod_log_config.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 128. Hunk #2 succeeded at 184. Hunk #3 succeeded at 448. Hunk #4 succeeded at 523. Hunk #5 succeeded at 702. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/support/apachectl ./src/support/apachectl |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/support/apachectl Tue Apr 6 20:36:33 1999 |+++ ./src/support/apachectl Mon Sep 6 16:28:10 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/support/apachectl using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 25. Hmm... The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |diff -u -r ../apache_1.3.9/src/support/suexec.c ./src/support/suexec.c |--- ../apache_1.3.9/src/support/suexec.c Tue Jun 22 00:51:41 1999 |+++ ./src/support/suexec.c Mon Sep 6 16:28:10 1999 -------------------------- Patching file src/support/suexec.c using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 215. done ===> Configuring for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 Configuring for Apache, Version 1.3.9 Ben-SSL/1.37 1.3.9 + using installation path layout: GNU (config.layout) Creating Makefile Creating Configuration.apaci in src + enabling mod_so for DSO support Creating Makefile in src + configured for FreeBSD 3.3 platform + setting C pre-processor to cc -E + checking for system header files + using custom target name: httpsd + adding selected modules o rewrite_module uses ConfigStart/End enabling DBM support for mod_rewrite o db_auth_module uses ConfigStart/End using Berkeley-DB/1.x for mod_auth_db (-lc) + checking sizeof various data types + doing sanity check on compiler and options ** A test compilation with your Makefile configuration ** failed. This is most likely because your C compiler ** is not ANSI. Apache requires an ANSI C Compiler, such ** as gcc. The above error message from your compiler ** will also provide a clue. Aborting! ===> Building for apache+ssl-1.3.9+1.37 ===> src make: don't know how to make all. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. Script done on Fri Nov 26 15:46:19 1999 Ryan Thompson 50% Owner, Technical and Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 26 21:17:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDBD14F86 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03137; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:17:31 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Gregory Bond Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup, cvs & directory permissions.... Message-ID: <19991126211731.A3106@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199911260159.MAA13867@lightning.itga.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: <199911260159.MAA13867@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 12:59:09PM +1100, Gregory Bond wrote: > I maintain /usr/ncvs via cvsup. By default, the directories in /usr/ncvs are > root.wheel, mode 755. You can also use *default umask=002 (or whatever mode) in your cvsup file. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 9:37:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc3.on.home.com (ha1.rdc3.on.home.com [24.2.9.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A8314BDA for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cwass99@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.114.108.234]) by mail.rdc3.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19991127173538.PREW6014.mail.rdc3.on.home.com@home.com>; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:35:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3840165D.CAF495E9@home.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:35:25 -0500 From: Colin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forrest W. Christian" Cc: Stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forrest W. Christian wrote: > > Hmm, this brings up another interesting question. First, to put this in > context: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for > > now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still > > running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits > > to the 2.2.x branch. > > Ok, so, let's assume I JUST want to incorporate bugfixes into the -RELEASE > (be it 3.x or whatever) that I have on a particular machine. How would I > go about doing this? > My intent was actually a little different from the responses that are elswhere in this list. My thought was, when you find a bug that affects you, get the diffs/upgraded source that fixes that problem only and apply. I'm new enough to this branch that I don't know for sure how difficult that would be, but I don't imagine it would be that big of a deal. You could also move just far enough up the source tree to fix your current problems and stop there, but at that point, there's no more risk than tracking -STABLE completely. For systems where stability is the overriding concern, you never want to apply patches/fixes only because they are available. Only fix problems that actually have an impact i.e. if SSH is broken, but you don't use it, don't worry about fixing it. There's always a risk that code that fixes one problem will break something else, usually something important ;) Murphy's Law always takes care of the final QA ;) Cheers, Colin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 11:52: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from inbox.org (inbox.org [216.22.145.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4050D14D74 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd@a.servers.aozilla.com) Received: from localhost (bsd@localhost) by inbox.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08510; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:51:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:51:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Mr. K." X-Sender: bsd@inbox.org To: Colin Cc: "Forrest W. Christian" , Stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3840165D.CAF495E9@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The problem is that the ports stop working... # pwd /usr/ports/databases/mysql322-server # make ===> Building for mysql-server-3.22.27 make: cannot open Makefile. *** Error code 2 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. # cd /usr/ports/shells/tcsh/ # make install ===> Installing for tcsh-6.09.00 mkdir -p /usr/local/bin mv -f /usr/local/bin/tcsh /usr/local/bin/tcsh.old cp tcsh /usr/local/bin/tcsh strip /usr/local/bin/tcsh chmod 555 /usr/local/bin/tcsh mkdir -p /usr/local/man/man1 rm -f /usr/local/man/man1/tcsh.1 cp ./tcsh.man /usr/local/man/man1/tcsh.1 chmod 444 /usr/local/man/man1/tcsh.1 ===> Generating temporary packing list bin.bin /usr/local/bin/tcsh bin.bin: not found *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Colin wrote: > Forrest W. Christian wrote: > > > > Hmm, this brings up another interesting question. First, to put this in > > context: > > > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Actually, the -missioncritical branch is sort of provided for > > > now as a function of -previousstable. There are plenty of people still > > > running 2.2.x, for example, and you even still occasionally see commits > > > to the 2.2.x branch. > > > > Ok, so, let's assume I JUST want to incorporate bugfixes into the -RELEASE > > (be it 3.x or whatever) that I have on a particular machine. How would I > > go about doing this? > > > My intent was actually a little different from the responses that > are elswhere in this list. My thought was, when you find a bug that > affects you, get the diffs/upgraded source that fixes that problem only > and apply. I'm new enough to this branch that I don't know for sure how > difficult that would be, but I don't imagine it would be that big of a > deal. You could also move just far enough up the source tree to fix > your current problems and stop there, but at that point, there's no more > risk than tracking -STABLE completely. > For systems where stability is the overriding concern, you never > want to apply patches/fixes only because they are available. Only fix > problems that actually have an impact i.e. if SSH is broken, but you > don't use it, don't worry about fixing it. There's always a risk that > code that fixes one problem will break something else, usually something > important ;) Murphy's Law always takes care of the final QA ;) > > Cheers, > Colin > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 13:34: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from 24-25-220-29.san.rr.com (24-25-220-29.san.rr.com [24.25.220.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D900315501 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougB@simplenet.com) Received: from simplenet.com (master [10.0.0.2]) by 24-25-220-29.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05853; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DougB@simplenet.com) Message-ID: <38404DFA.16DE72C3@simplenet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:32:42 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Cc: "Forrest W. Christian" , Stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE References: <3840165D.CAF495E9@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Colin wrote: > My intent was actually a little different from the responses that > are elswhere in this list. . . > For systems where stability is the overriding concern, you never > want to apply patches/fixes only because they are available. Only fix > problems that actually have an impact i.e. if SSH is broken, but you > don't use it, don't worry about fixing it. There's always a risk that > code that fixes one problem will break something else, usually something > important ;) I think your points here are well taken, however because of FreeBSD's "whole system" development model, it's actually more likely that introducing individual fixes to part of the system will break something than the other way around. (At least in my opinion, I know that there is a significant minority that hold a different view.) This is not to say that we wouldn't welcome a system like what you propose, and in fact many have been hashed out over the years. You can see the details in the mail archives. However, what it always boils down to is that no one has the right combination of time, equipment and willingness to do the regression testing necessary to make such a system work. The model I've used is to monitor the lists carefully and when I see a new thing that I want (be it bug fix, performance enhancement, what have you) I plan an upgrade for that time period. First I upgrade my workstation(s), then a least-critical system, then eventually the whole enchilada. Of course, I've got lots of freebsd systems in various flavors to work with, but you could do the same thing by setting up a system as a hot spare, and really, if the system is _that_ critical shouldn't you have a hot spare anyway? :) I realize this isn't the answer you were hoping for, but hopefully knowing that it is at least something we've given thought to is of some comfort to you... Good luck, Doug -- "Welcome to the desert of the real." - Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus, "The Matrix" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 14:55:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from 24-25-220-29.san.rr.com (24-25-220-29.san.rr.com [24.25.220.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98ACC14CDE for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by 24-25-220-29.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA34841; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <38406163.23B94E11@gorean.org> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:55:31 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush Cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: easyboot far into disk References: <199911051534.HAA02236@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Randy Bush wrote: > > > You misremember; it has to be on the first disk, but it can be in any > > primary partition there. > > doh. thanks. game over. Actually in the [good|bad] old days of pre-GUI DOS you had to have something (I'm pretty sure it was command.com) on the first primary partition, or DOS would pitch a blue hissy fit when you tried to start it and it couldn't find c:\whatever. I spent many a long hour trying to sort out dos 6.22, OS/2 Warp and FreeBS 2.1.5 on my little 540 meg hard drive way back when. I've since given up on OS/2 (sigh) and neatly solved the multi-os problem with multi-scsi disks. :) The newer versions of DOS (aka windows 95/8) are more forgiving, even though IIRC the win 98 installer still tells you flat out that it won't work with a boot selector program if it detects one. Doug -- "Welcome to the desert of the real." - Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus, "The Matrix" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 15:34:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D93714BE0; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:34:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA96362; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:34:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:34:22 +1100 From: Jonathan Michaels To: Kris Kennaway Cc: "Forrest W. Christian" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colin , stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... Message-ID: <19991128103420.A95893@phoenix.welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Kris Kennaway , "Forrest W. Christian" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colin , stable@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 12:43:04PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 12:43:04PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Forrest W. Christian wrote: > > > (Leaving Jordan's original message for context) > > > > I think I just "got it". Is the following description correct: > > Unfortunately it looks like Jordan misinterpreted your question - you were > right the first time. Once a -RELEASE is out the door it stays that way. A > -RELEASE is a snapshot of -STABLE at a particular point in tim (see the > FAQ for a pretty ascii picture of the process). > > You were asking for a track which is "-RELEASE + bugfixes", which doesn't > strictly exist -- but the thing which most people seem to be missing in > this discussion is that what goes into -stable *IS* 95% bugfixes (or > trivial changes like adding an option to a command). Trying to add major > new features from -current often has the nasty habit of breaking things, > so it isn't done much, and most of the new features come in the next > (x.0-RELEASE) version. > > -STABLE seems to be what you (and a lot of other people in this > discussion) want, you just might not know it. thanks for explaining this properly for the first time ... i've been wondering aboout this very question for some 4 years now. i'll beg this question, though, how does one track -stable, "properly" ? or put anouter way, is it possible to pick and choose the patches (updates) that come down the cvs pipe every night ? i ask this in light of you remarks concerning what -stable real is, and in context of its position in the overal scheme of things. to go on .. the impression i got from the original question is that this person (me and others i dare with rather limited resources as well) might find the traffic some what financially trying, given most f the rest of the world still charges internet access by the byte as well as by the minute. tracking the whole tree could run up a tidy bill, not a real probelm for those in the trade so to speak but us "hangers on". it would be nice to have a -stable that would allow us to pick and chooose the fixes we would add given our particular needs and or overall systems stratagies. and, so we return to the original proposition, being, a -release (sau 2 or 3 times a year, to allow for good regression testing and QA) with a stream of mix and match bug fixes. advertised and delivered as spec'd this would make a far more reasonable intranet customer pallitable offering than what we currently have. we currently cater for the developers and the educational requirements, as well as the very very small niche at the tope of the internet pyramid .. the services povidors, but the bulk of the middle (where most of the work and value really) is left out to dry so to speak .. ok i'm starting to froth at the mouth sorry. regards jonathan -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 17:28:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from ns.clientlogic.com (ns.clientlogic.com [207.51.66.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644A414CA4 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ChrisMic@clientlogic.com) Received: by site0s1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:28:17 -0500 Message-ID: <6C37EE640B78D2118D2F00A0C90FCB4401105DC8@site2s1> From: Christopher Michaels To: 'Adam Szilveszter' Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:28:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Szilveszter [SMTP:sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu] > Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 4:04 PM > To: Forrest W. Christian > Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... > > Of course the whole thing only applies if you do binary upgrades. If you > cvsup you will never see the RELEASE tag, it will only change from > 3.3-STABLE to 3.4-STABLE. (or at least I have not seen it, only after a > total reinstall) > (assuming we're talking about the output of uname -a here) Just for the record, just before 3.3 was frozen, I did several "make worlds" and rebuilt my kernel (my minor contribution to the cause). I remember watching my version change from -STABLE, to -RC, to -RELEASE, and of course, back to -STABLE once all was said and done. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 18:14:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from abc.123.org (123.org [195.244.241.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D5514E27 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@abc.123.org) Received: (from k@localhost) by abc.123.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA34580 for stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 03:14:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from k) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 03:14:04 +0100 From: Kai Voigt To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: finger(1) not RFC compliant Message-ID: <19991128031403.N19490@abc.123.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i Organization: 123.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm not sure if I'm right and actually, there are more important things in the world. But while implementing the finger protocol in Pike, I found out that FreeBSD's finger(1) on my 3.3-STABLE does not behave as RFC 1288 wants it to. When entering "finger user@remotehost", finger has to send "/W user\r\n" to the remotehost. Instead, it sends "user\r\n" without the leading "/W ". In chapter 2.3, RFC 1288 defines a non recursive finger query as {Q1} ::= [ {W} | {W} {S} {U} ] {C} where {W} is "/W", {S} one or more spaces, {U} the username and {C} is "\r\n". Kai -- kai voigt hamburger chaussee 36 24113 kiel 04 31 - 22 19 98 69 http://k.123.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 19: 7:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from trooper.velocet.net (trooper.velocet.net [216.126.82.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B1A15579 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:07:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dgilbert@trooper.velocet.net) Received: (from dgilbert@localhost) by trooper.velocet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA91549; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:07:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dgilbert) From: David Gilbert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14400.40032.603375.82448@trooper.velocet.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:07:12 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: ahc problems (with vinum?) X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Several times, on a system I've been configuring and testing, I've got some maddening ahc0 messages. In general, they complain of a timeout on the bus (I think some packet got lost)... and x SCBs are aborted. At this point, some portion of the SCSI bus is unusable... and the machine eventually hangs due to this. It does claim that it's resetting channel A of the ahc0 controller, but I gather it doesn't do any good. I'm running 3.3-STABLE (as of thursday, I think) and am trying to format and test an 8-drive vinum RAID-5 array. Dave. -- ============================================================================ |David Gilbert, Velocet Communications. | Two things can only be | |Mail: dgilbert@velocet.net | equal if and only if they | |http://www.velocet.net/~dgilbert | are precisely opposite. | =========================================================GLO================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 20:10:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DA714CB6 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA18887; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:10:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ken) Message-Id: <199911280410.VAA18887@panzer.kdm.org> Subject: Re: ahc problems (with vinum?) In-Reply-To: <14400.40032.603375.82448@trooper.velocet.net> from David Gilbert at "Nov 27, 1999 10:07:12 pm" To: dgilbert@velocet.ca (David Gilbert) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:10:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Kenneth D. Merry" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Gilbert wrote... > Several times, on a system I've been configuring and testing, I've got > some maddening ahc0 messages. In general, they complain of a timeout > on the bus (I think some packet got lost)... and x SCBs are aborted. > > At this point, some portion of the SCSI bus is unusable... and the > machine eventually hangs due to this. It does claim that it's > resetting channel A of the ahc0 controller, but I gather it doesn't do > any good. > > I'm running 3.3-STABLE (as of thursday, I think) and am trying to > format and test an 8-drive vinum RAID-5 array. You'll need to provide more information in order for anyone to make sense of your problem. Specifically, please post any and all relevant kernel messages, including your controllers and drives and the errors you've seen printed out, explain your SCSI bus configuration, where it is terminated, etc. The #1 cause of problems is cabling and termination. The second most common cause of problems is bogus drive firmware. In any case, check your cabling and termination, as that is most likely problem. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 20:17:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from trooper.velocet.net (trooper.velocet.net [216.126.82.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA4414A0E for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:17:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dgilbert@trooper.velocet.net) Received: (from dgilbert@localhost) by trooper.velocet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA94595; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:17:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dgilbert) From: David Gilbert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14400.44231.893101.170807@trooper.velocet.net> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 23:17:11 -0500 (EST) To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: dgilbert@velocet.ca (David Gilbert), freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ahc problems (with vinum?) In-Reply-To: <199911280410.VAA18887@panzer.kdm.org> References: <14400.40032.603375.82448@trooper.velocet.net> <199911280410.VAA18887@panzer.kdm.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Kenneth" == Kenneth D Merry writes: Kenneth> David Gilbert wrote... >> Several times, on a system I've been configuring and testing, I've >> got some maddening ahc0 messages. In general, they complain of a >> timeout on the bus (I think some packet got lost)... and x SCBs are >> aborted. >> >> At this point, some portion of the SCSI bus is unusable... and the >> machine eventually hangs due to this. It does claim that it's >> resetting channel A of the ahc0 controller, but I gather it doesn't >> do any good. >> >> I'm running 3.3-STABLE (as of thursday, I think) and am trying to >> format and test an 8-drive vinum RAID-5 array. Kenneth> You'll need to provide more information in order for anyone Kenneth> to make sense of your problem. Specifically, please post any Kenneth> and all relevant kernel messages, including your controllers Kenneth> and drives and the errors you've seen printed out, explain Kenneth> your SCSI bus configuration, where it is terminated, etc. Kenneth> The #1 cause of problems is cabling and termination. The Kenneth> second most common cause of problems is bogus drive firmware. Kenneth> In any case, check your cabling and termination, as that is Kenneth> most likely problem. Regardless of terminaion, the SCSI bus reset should clear things... the unit will run for hours just fine... get this one error and hang. It is difficult to copy down all the messages --- as they don't get copied into the logs (since the SCSI bus is locked). The controller is the 2940 U2W --- the one with a SE and an LVD connector. The LVD bus is connected to a professional 8 drive LVD case which is connected and terminated with the supplied cables. The SE connector is connected to a single drive. Dave. -- ============================================================================ |David Gilbert, Velocet Communications. | Two things can only be | |Mail: dgilbert@velocet.net | equal if and only if they | |http://www.velocet.net/~dgilbert | are precisely opposite. | =========================================================GLO================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 21:15:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C2614BDA for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA19138; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ken) Message-Id: <199911280515.WAA19138@panzer.kdm.org> Subject: Re: ahc problems (with vinum?) In-Reply-To: <14400.44231.893101.170807@trooper.velocet.net> from David Gilbert at "Nov 27, 1999 11:17:11 pm" To: dgilbert@velocet.ca (David Gilbert) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:15:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Kenneth D. Merry" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Gilbert wrote... > >>>>> "Kenneth" == Kenneth D Merry writes: > Kenneth> David Gilbert wrote... > >> Several times, on a system I've been configuring and testing, I've > >> got some maddening ahc0 messages. In general, they complain of a > >> timeout on the bus (I think some packet got lost)... and x SCBs are > >> aborted. > >> > >> At this point, some portion of the SCSI bus is unusable... and the > >> machine eventually hangs due to this. It does claim that it's > >> resetting channel A of the ahc0 controller, but I gather it doesn't > >> do any good. > >> > >> I'm running 3.3-STABLE (as of thursday, I think) and am trying to > >> format and test an 8-drive vinum RAID-5 array. > > Kenneth> You'll need to provide more information in order for anyone > Kenneth> to make sense of your problem. Specifically, please post any > Kenneth> and all relevant kernel messages, including your controllers > Kenneth> and drives and the errors you've seen printed out, explain > Kenneth> your SCSI bus configuration, where it is terminated, etc. > > Kenneth> The #1 cause of problems is cabling and termination. The > Kenneth> second most common cause of problems is bogus drive firmware. > > Kenneth> In any case, check your cabling and termination, as that is > Kenneth> most likely problem. > > Regardless of terminaion, the SCSI bus reset should clear > things... the unit will run for hours just fine... get this one error > and hang. It is difficult to copy down all the messages --- as they > don't get copied into the logs (since the SCSI bus is locked). Run a serial console on the box. You'll get all the messages that way. Seriously, there's no way to adequately diagnose the problem without the specific error messages in question. There are any number of conditions that can cause a timeout. > The controller is the 2940 U2W --- the one with a SE and an LVD > connector. The LVD bus is connected to a professional 8 drive LVD > case which is connected and terminated with the supplied cables. The > SE connector is connected to a single drive. And the SE drive is terminated as well? Are the supplied cables and terminator for the LVD segment LVD cables/terminators? Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 27 21:33:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4007C14BDA; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:33:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17826; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:33:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199911280533.WAA17826@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Bug-fixing previous -RELEASE, was Re: speaking of 3.4... In-Reply-To: <19991128103420.A95893@phoenix.welearn.com.au> from Jonathan Michaels at "Nov 28, 99 10:34:22 am" To: jon@welearn.com.au (Jonathan Michaels) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:33:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: kris@hub.freebsd.org, forrestc@iMach.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, cwass99@home.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Jonathan Michaels wrote: > i'll beg this question, though, how does one track -stable, > "properly" ? Use CVSup for the release tree you want (in my case, RELENG_2_2). If you CVSup a release tree, you'll only get bug fixes or very important improvements. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message