From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 1 8:22: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from web2103.mail.yahoo.com (web2103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C77537B502 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2716 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Oct 2000 15:22:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20001001152201.2715.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.21.30.4] by web2103.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 08:22:01 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: FlamezOn Subject: Installation Question To: FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I gotta another problem.I have DOS/Extend Partitions :D:\Win98 E:\Wnntsrv F:\WnntWorkstation G:\FreeBSD and I wanted to know,If I could install the FreeBSD last(keeping in mind that 1024cylinder limitation) and if so, will It see my NTFS partitions DURING IT'S INSTALLATION and how will I know where to sit my FreeBSD slice if it does you the same naming convention as DOS. I know where my dos partition is for it but I'm not sure if I have the correct specification for FreeBSD's specification for its extended G: I mounted on the unused area under what I thought the g: drive to be /dev/wd0s7 Alos I didn this under a novice installation(what installion type should I try?....I wasn't sure if I should try custom how would I set that UP?\ Also,Are there any sites that I can go to that has a litte more detail procedure of how the OS can be Multi-booted __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 2 5:23:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D8637B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 05:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-emuc07-01.Germany.Sun.COM ([129.157.128.14]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24943; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 05:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from germany.sun.com (hacker [129.157.133.195]) by ms-emuc07-01.Germany.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v1.9) with ESMTP id OAA12923; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:23:05 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <39D87DEF.CF3D919C@germany.sun.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:22:07 +0200 From: Michael Schuster - Sun Germany Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: Brian Somers , Greg Lehey , Chuck Paterson , Archie Cobbs , Joerg Micheel , Frank Mayhar , John Baldwin , Mark Murray , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores (was: cvs commit: src/sys/conf filessrc/sys/sys random.h src/sys/dev/randomdev hash.c hash.h harvest.c randomdev.cyarrow.c yarro) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > I agree - the idea of recursive mutices evil and should go, but the > > idea of an owner should not. It's nice to be able to write code that > > KASSERTs that it already owns a given mutex. > > I'm not sure I agree. Having lived through Solaris hell with recursive mutex > panics, I rather like the BSD/OS approach. chiming in on this a bit late, but nevertheless this begs the question: aren't you shooting the messanger here? > -matt Michael -- Michael Schuster / Michael.Schuster@sun.com Sun Microsystems GmbH / Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Heimstetten (+49 89) 46008-2974 / x62974 Recursion, n.: see 'Recursion' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 2 7:23:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149B337B503; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beppo (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23690; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:22:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Michael Schuster - Sun Germany Cc: Brian Somers , Greg Lehey , Chuck Paterson , Archie Cobbs , Joerg Micheel , Frank Mayhar , John Baldwin , Mark Murray , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores (was: cvs commit: src/sys/conf filessrc/sys/sys random.h src/sys/dev/randomdev hash.c hash.h harvest.c randomdev.cyarrow.c yarro) In-Reply-To: <39D87DEF.CF3D919C@germany.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I'm not sure I agree. Having lived through Solaris hell with recursive mutex > > panics, I rather like the BSD/OS approach. > > chiming in on this a bit late, but nevertheless this begs the question: > aren't you shooting the messanger here? Disagreement != shooting. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 2 12:37:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7677B37B66C for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAB399906; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:37:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20001001152201.2715.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20001001152201.2715.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:37:42 -0400 To: FlamezOn , FreeBSD From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Installation Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 8:22 AM -0700 10/1/00, FlamezOn wrote: >I gotta another problem.I have DOS/Extend Partitions >:D:\Win98 E:\Wnntsrv F:\WnntWorkstation G:\FreeBSD and >I wanted to know,If I could install the FreeBSD >last(keeping in mind that 1024cylinder limitation) and >if so, will It see my NTFS partitions DURING IT'S >INSTALLATION and how will I know where to sit my >FreeBSD slice if it does you the same naming >convention as DOS. You sent this message to freebsd-arch, which is for questions of the software-architecture of freebsd development. Your question would be much more appropriate for the freebsd-questions mailing list. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 1: 4: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6555037B503 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.6.244.187]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001003080358.NFYH26082.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:03:58 -0700 Content-Length: 406 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20000926230436.J9141@fw.wintelcom.net> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:04:02 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Sep-00 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Right now I can't even do getpid() properly because we don't have > read/write-barriers. We do have these. I have some helper functions I'll try to run by the new-bus list tonight. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 8:28:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (berserker.twistedbit.com [199.79.183.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E30037B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (cp@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by berserker.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10873; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010031528.JAA10873@berserker.bsdi.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: Alfred Perlstein , arch@freebsd.org, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:04:02 PDT." From: Chuck Paterson Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:28:39 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why do yo need a barier for getpid()? A barrier really is not guaranteed to be sufficient for the #if defined(COMPAT_43) || defined(COMPAT_SUNOS) p->p_retval[1] = p->p_pptr->p_pid; #endif case. Chuck ----- Begin Included Message ----- Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:04:02 -0700 From: John Baldwin To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey On 27-Sep-00 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Right now I can't even do getpid() properly because we don't have > read/write-barriers. We do have these. I have some helper functions I'll try to run by the new-bus list tonight. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message ----- End Included Message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 10:53:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5827037B502 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA02520 for arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:53:19 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe before someone mentioned that they'd like to move the manpages out of /sys/modules. Is anyone against doing this for ibcs2.8, joy.8, linux.8, osf1.8, svr4.8. The problem is that one cannot build a kernel and install it in isolation: make KERNEL=GENERIC KODIR=/GENERIC DESTDIR=/tmp/foo install mkdir -p /tmp/foo/GENERIC install -c -m 555 -o root -g wheel -fschg kernel /tmp/foo/GENERIC cd ../../modules && env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC/modules KMODDIR=/GENERIC make install ===> 3dfx install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 3dfx.ko /tmp/foo/GENERIC ...snip... ===> joy install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 joy.ko /tmp/foo/GENERIC install -c -o root -g wheel -m 444 joy.8.gz /tmp/foo/usr/share/man/man8 install: /tmp/foo/usr/share/man/man8: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 12:16:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AC437B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e93JG4a06283; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:04 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Chuck Paterson Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Message-ID: <20001003121604.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200010031528.JAA10873@berserker.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200010031528.JAA10873@berserker.bsdi.com>; from cp@bsdi.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 09:28:39AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On 27-Sep-00 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Right now I can't even do getpid() properly because we don't have > > read/write-barriers. > > We do have these. I have some helper functions I'll try to run by the > new-bus list tonight. > * Chuck Paterson [001003 08:28] wrote: > Why do yo need a barier for getpid()? > A barrier really is not guaranteed to be sufficient > for the > > #if defined(COMPAT_43) || defined(COMPAT_SUNOS) > p->p_retval[1] = p->p_pptr->p_pid; > #endif From linux/kernel/timer.c: (It assumes struct proc is in stable storage) /* * This is not strictly SMP safe: p_opptr could change * from under us. However, rather than getting any lock * we can use an optimistic algorithm: get the parent * pid, and go back and check that the parent is still * the same. If it has changed (which is extremely unlikely * indeed), we just try again.. * * NOTE! This depends on the fact that even if we _do_ * get an old value of "parent", we can happily dereference * the pointer: we just can't necessarily trust the result * until we know that the parent pointer is valid. * * The "mb()" macro is a memory barrier - a synchronizing * event. It also makes sure that gcc doesn't optimize * away the necessary memory references.. The barrier doesn't * have to have all that strong semantics: on x86 we don't * really require a synchronizing instruction, for example. * The barrier is more important for code generation than * for any real memory ordering semantics (even if there is * a small window for a race, using the old pointer is * harmless for a while). */ asmlinkage long sys_getppid(void) { int pid; struct task_struct * me = current; struct task_struct * parent; parent = me->p_opptr; for (;;) { pid = parent->pid; #if CONFIG_SMP { struct task_struct *old = parent; mb(); parent = me->p_opptr; if (old != parent) continue; } #endif break; } return pid; } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 12:21: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.ninth-circle.org (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBE637B502 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.ninth-circle.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e93JKg991546; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:20:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:20:42 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Brian Somers Cc: Paul Richards , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/finger finger.c Message-ID: <20001003212041.A91301@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <200010031835.e93IZBn44696@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010031835.e93IZBn44696@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 07:35:11PM +0100 Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [cut back on cc:'s and crossposts] -On [20001003 20:45], Brian Somers (brian@Awfulhak.org) wrote: >> I think we should have a stable release team, that changes to the stable >> branch should be gated through to ensure they're thouroughly tested and >> that there's a need for them to be backported. I'd be happy to work with >> anyone else who wants to volunteer to do that since maintaining a stable >> version of the OS is a major issue for me with my new hat on. > >I'd be willing to be part of such a team. Count me in too. I have been doing 4-STABLE and 3-STABLE a lot the last few months. However we have some other issues to address. At the moment we can change structures and other data types which will completely negate any backwards compatibility. We need some system to safeguard that and warn when those sizes change and thus affect the compatibility. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 12:57:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7B937B503 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA03667 for arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:57:19 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@freebsd.org on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:53:19AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:53:19AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > The problem is that one cannot build a kernel and install it in > isolation: Which of these two patches is most stomachable? Index: ibcs2/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/ibcs2/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.28 diff -u -r1.28 Makefile --- ibcs2/Makefile 2000/05/27 01:13:48 1.28 +++ ibcs2/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:49:29 @@ -8,13 +8,17 @@ ibcs2_isc.c ibcs2_isc_sysent.c \ ibcs2_msg.c ibcs2_other.c ibcs2_sysi86.c ibcs2_sysvec.c \ vnode_if.h opt_spx_hack.h +.if !defined(MODONLY) MAN8= ibcs2.8 +.endif CFLAGS+= -DCOMPAT_IBCS2 EXPORT_SYMS= _ibcs2_mod _ibcs2_emul_path _ibcs2_svr3_sysvec +.if !defined(MODONLY) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/ibcs2.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/ibcs2 +.endif .include Index: joy/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/joy/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.17 diff -u -r1.17 Makefile --- joy/Makefile 2000/05/27 01:13:51 1.17 +++ joy/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:47:12 @@ -3,10 +3,14 @@ .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../isa KMOD = joy SRCS = bus_if.h device_if.h isa_if.h joy.c +.if !defined(MODONLY) MAN8 = joy.8 +.endif +.if !defined(MODONLY) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/joy.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/bin/joy +.endif .include Index: linux/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/linux/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.40 diff -u -r1.40 Makefile --- linux/Makefile 2000/09/06 20:21:55 1.40 +++ linux/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:49:50 @@ -10,7 +10,9 @@ linux_dummy.c linux_sysent.c linux_sysvec.c linux_util.c \ opt_compat.h opt_linux.h opt_vmpage.h vnode_if.h OBJS= linux_locore.o +.if !defined(MODONLY) MAN8= linux.8 +.endif .if ${MACHINE_ARCH} != "alpha" SRCS+= imgact_linux.c linux_ipc.c @@ -35,8 +37,10 @@ opt_compat.h: echo "#define COMPAT_43 1" > opt_compat.h +.if !defined(MODONLY) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/linux.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/linux +.endif .include Index: svr4/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/svr4/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.18 diff -u -r1.18 Makefile --- svr4/Makefile 2000/08/31 22:54:01 1.18 +++ svr4/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:50:38 @@ -12,7 +12,9 @@ svr4_stream.c svr4_socket.c svr4_sockio.c svr4_machdep.c \ svr4_resource.c svr4_ipc.c OBJS= svr4_locore.o +.if !defined(MODONLY) MAN8= svr4.8 +.endif EXPORT_SYMS=_svr4_mod CLEANFILES= svr4_assym.h svr4_genassym.o @@ -39,8 +41,10 @@ echo "#define DEBUG_SVR4 1" >> opt_svr4.h .endif +.if !defined(MODONLY) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/svr4.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/svr4 +.endif .include ===[ OR ]=================== Index: ibcs2/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/ibcs2/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.28 diff -u -r1.28 Makefile --- ibcs2/Makefile 2000/05/27 01:13:48 1.28 +++ ibcs2/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:55:25 @@ -8,13 +8,17 @@ ibcs2_isc.c ibcs2_isc_sysent.c \ ibcs2_msg.c ibcs2_other.c ibcs2_sysi86.c ibcs2_sysvec.c \ vnode_if.h opt_spx_hack.h +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man/man8) MAN8= ibcs2.8 +.endif CFLAGS+= -DCOMPAT_IBCS2 EXPORT_SYMS= _ibcs2_mod _ibcs2_emul_path _ibcs2_svr3_sysvec +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/bin) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/ibcs2.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/ibcs2 +.endif .include Index: joy/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/joy/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.17 diff -u -r1.17 Makefile --- joy/Makefile 2000/05/27 01:13:51 1.17 +++ joy/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:55:15 @@ -3,10 +3,14 @@ .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../isa KMOD = joy SRCS = bus_if.h device_if.h isa_if.h joy.c +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man/man8) MAN8 = joy.8 +.endif +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/bin) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/joy.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/bin/joy +.endif .include Index: linux/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/linux/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.40 diff -u -r1.40 Makefile --- linux/Makefile 2000/09/06 20:21:55 1.40 +++ linux/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:55:21 @@ -10,7 +10,9 @@ linux_dummy.c linux_sysent.c linux_sysvec.c linux_util.c \ opt_compat.h opt_linux.h opt_vmpage.h vnode_if.h OBJS= linux_locore.o +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man/man8) MAN8= linux.8 +.endif .if ${MACHINE_ARCH} != "alpha" SRCS+= imgact_linux.c linux_ipc.c @@ -35,8 +37,10 @@ opt_compat.h: echo "#define COMPAT_43 1" > opt_compat.h +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/bin) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/linux.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/linux +.endif .include Index: svr4/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/svr4/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.18 diff -u -r1.18 Makefile --- svr4/Makefile 2000/08/31 22:54:01 1.18 +++ svr4/Makefile 2000/10/03 19:55:31 @@ -12,7 +12,9 @@ svr4_stream.c svr4_socket.c svr4_sockio.c svr4_machdep.c \ svr4_resource.c svr4_ipc.c OBJS= svr4_locore.o +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/share/man/man8) MAN8= svr4.8 +.endif EXPORT_SYMS=_svr4_mod CLEANFILES= svr4_assym.h svr4_genassym.o @@ -39,8 +41,10 @@ echo "#define DEBUG_SVR4 1" >> opt_svr4.h .endif +.if exists(${DESTDIR}/usr/bin) afterinstall: ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${.CURDIR}/svr4.sh ${DESTDIR}/usr/sbin/svr4 +.endif .include To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 13: 1: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (berserker.twistedbit.com [199.79.183.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568B937B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (cp@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by berserker.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12968; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010032001.OAA12968@berserker.bsdi.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:16:04 PDT." <20001003121604.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> From: Chuck Paterson Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:01:02 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG concerning asmlinkage long sys_getppid(void) I would point out that the kernel could be pre-empted for an arbitrary long period of time and that by the time you look at the pointer it may no longer point at anything usefull, and could even fault. With the multi-threaded kernel this can happen just from interrupts, you don't even have to wander into the much less likely, but still possible, case of having a top half preempt. Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 13:10:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (berserker.twistedbit.com [199.79.183.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C0E37B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (cp@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by berserker.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13053; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:10:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010032010.OAA13053@berserker.bsdi.com> Cc: Alfred Perlstein , John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:01:02 MDT." <200010032001.OAA12968@berserker.bsdi.com> From: Chuck Paterson Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:10:14 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred: More on sys_getppid You could arrange for the fault handler to do the "right thing" when you faulted in this case. This could all be done without any locks since it is process private data. This might be a useful feature in general. Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 13:17:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE4537B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e93KHgM08579; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:17:42 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Chuck Paterson Cc: John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Message-ID: <20001003131741.K27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001003121604.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <200010032001.OAA12968@berserker.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200010032001.OAA12968@berserker.bsdi.com>; from cp@bsdi.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 02:01:02PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Chuck Paterson [001003 13:01] wrote: > > concerning asmlinkage long sys_getppid(void) > > > I would point out that the kernel could be pre-empted > for an arbitrary long period of time and that by the time > you look at the pointer it may no longer point at anything > usefull, and could even fault. With the multi-threaded kernel this > can happen just from interrupts, you don't even have to wander > into the much less likely, but still possible, case of having > a top half preempt. The idea is that the parent pointer will always reference something, 'struct proc' in Linux and I'm pretty sure FreeBSD is never free'd back to the system, therefore one can safely dereference the pointer at any time, you just need to make sure it didn't change afterwards. You also need to order your assignment of ppid properly and at all times make sure it's either pointing to it's parent, or init. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 14:29:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (berserker.twistedbit.com [199.79.183.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D9C37B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from berserker.bsdi.com (cp@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by berserker.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13697; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010032129.PAA13697@berserker.bsdi.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:17:42 PDT." <20001003131741.K27736@fw.wintelcom.net> From: Chuck Paterson Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:29:05 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Your right, not freeing these things ever does make things lots easier. Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 3 23:15:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.iafrica.com (smtp02.iafrica.com [196.7.0.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C56337B502; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [196.7.18.138] (helo=grimreaper.grondar.za ident=root) by smtp02.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 13ghqH-0006dD-00; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:15:49 +0200 Received: from grimreaper.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.za (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e946Fc804501; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:15:40 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grimreaper.grondar.za) Message-Id: <200010040615.e946Fc804501@grimreaper.grondar.za> To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, sheldonh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules References: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> In-Reply-To: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> ; from "David O'Brien" "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:53:19 MST." Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:15:38 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I believe before someone mentioned that they'd like to move the manpages > out of /sys/modules. Is anyone against doing this for ibcs2.8, joy.8, > linux.8, osf1.8, svr4.8. I believe SheldonH is doing something along these lines... M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:19:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from lists01.iafrica.com (lists01.iafrica.com [196.7.0.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAED437B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwl.fw.uunet.co.za ([196.31.2.162]) by lists01.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #2) id 13giqB-0001dC-00; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:19:47 +0200 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za (8.8.8/8.6.9) id JAA26909; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:19:49 +0200 (SAST) Received: by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za via recvmail id 26781; Wed Oct 4 09:19:15 2000 Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.fw.uunet.co.za) by axl.fw.uunet.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13gipe-000C5v-00; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:19:14 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Mark Murray Cc: obrien@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:15:38 +0200." <200010040615.e946Fc804501@grimreaper.grondar.za> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:19:14 +0200 Message-ID: <46494.970643954@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:15:38 +0200, Mark Murray wrote: > > I believe before someone mentioned that they'd like to move the manpages > > out of /sys/modules. Is anyone against doing this for ibcs2.8, joy.8, > > linux.8, osf1.8, svr4.8. > > I believe SheldonH is doing something along these lines... I have patches that clean shell scripts and their manual pages out of the sys tree. I have a linux.4 replacement for linux.8 committed already. I'm still waiting for svr4.4, osf1.4 and ibcs2.4. We already have a joy.4. If folks don't think it's worth waiting for these manual pages, I'm happy to go ahead and complete the clean-out. But I figured there'd be _someone_ whining if I did, and I've had it with the bickering. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:26: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAB637B502 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA07874; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:25:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:25:55 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001004002555.F3842@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <200010040615.e946Fc804501@grimreaper.grondar.za> <46494.970643954@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <46494.970643954@axl.fw.uunet.co.za>; from sheldonh@uunet.co.za on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:19:14AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:19:14AM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > If folks don't think it's worth waiting for these manual pages, I'm > happy to go ahead and complete the clean-out. But I figured there'd be > _someone_ whining if I did, and I've had it with the bickering. I would help me to do it now rather than wait. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:28: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from netplex.com.au (adsl-63-207-30-186.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.30.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4345A37B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netplex.com.au (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netplex.com.au (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e947RpH19302; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200010040727.e947RpH19302@netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Chuck Paterson Cc: Alfred Perlstein , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <200010032129.PAA13697@berserker.bsdi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:27:51 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Paterson wrote: > Your right, not freeing these things ever does make things > lots easier. > > Chuck In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. int getppid(p, uap) struct proc *p; struct getppid_args *uap; { p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pptr->p_pid; return (0); } could safely become: int getppid(p, uap) struct proc *p; struct getppid_args *uap; { struct proc *parent; pid_t pid; parent = p->p_pptr; pid = parent->p_pid; #ifdef SMP for (;;) { __asm __volatile (": : : memory"); /* mb(); on x86 */ if (parent == p->p_pptr) break; /* lost a race, our parent died and we reparented - redo */ parent = p->p_pptr; pid = parent->p_pid; } #endif p->p_retval[0] = (register_t)pid; return 0; } This isn't quite the same as the linux version, but I'm pretty sure the important races are covered just like theirs. The mb(); replacement could be a real per-cpu mb instruction on arches that require it. Even if it is just the gcc flush, it would be sufficient for 99.99999% of cases. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:29:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au (gidora.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0443437B66D for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19010 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2000 07:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bde.zeta.org.au) (203.2.228.102) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 4 Oct 2000 07:29:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:29:37 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: David O'Brien Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules In-Reply-To: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, David O'Brien wrote: > On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:53:19AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > The problem is that one cannot build a kernel and install it in > > isolation: > > Which of these two patches is most stomachable? Neither. I thought you were going to move the manpages. Strictly, they belong with their commands in usr.sbin, but most (all?) of them are so trivial that they probably shouldn't exist. E.g., joy(1) is just "kld joy", and joy.8 doesn't say anything interesting. ISTR that Sheldon plans to remove them. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:31:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BC437B503 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA07966; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:31:32 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Bruce Evans Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001004003132.A7945@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from bde@zeta.org.au on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 06:29:37PM +1100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 06:29:37PM +1100, Bruce Evans wrote: > > Which of these two patches is most stomachable? > > Neither. I'll back out what I committed once the manpages and .sh files are moved. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 0:50:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from netplex.com.au (adsl-63-207-30-186.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.30.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A799637B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netplex.com.au (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netplex.com.au (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e947oaH19391; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:50:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200010040750.e947oaH19391@netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Chuck Paterson Cc: Alfred Perlstein , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <200010040727.e947RpH19302@netplex.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:50:36 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: > Chuck Paterson wrote: > > Your right, not freeing these things ever does make things > > lots easier. > > > > Chuck > > In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and > certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes > to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. Actually, a final version is at: http://people.freebsd.org/~peter/getppid.diff This produces nice tight assembler code. The SMP reentrancy protection adds two instructions.. one cmp and one conditional branch which gets taken if there is a lost race. It hardly seems worth #ifdef'ing it (and it isn't ifdefed in the diff). This diff is missing is the MPSAFE flag for the getppid syscall, but thats trivial to add (for native syscalls and all other syscall vectors that call getppid directly). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 1:17:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B599237B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e948H9h01572; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:17:09 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Peter Wemm Cc: Chuck Paterson , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Matt Dillon , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Message-ID: <20001004011709.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200010040727.e947RpH19302@netplex.com.au> <200010040750.e947oaH19391@netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200010040750.e947oaH19391@netplex.com.au>; from peter@netplex.com.au on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:50:36AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Peter Wemm [001004 00:50] wrote: > Peter Wemm wrote: > > Chuck Paterson wrote: > > > Your right, not freeing these things ever does make things > > > lots easier. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and > > certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes > > to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. > > Actually, a final version is at: > http://people.freebsd.org/~peter/getppid.diff I'd really prefer not to see gcc inline asm in the code like that, can we use a macro like 'mb()'? or better yet 'memory_order()' that way it can be used in a lot of places without worrying about catching all the changes if they're needed. Otherwise it's great. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 9:12:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2D237B66D for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06323 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e94GCo219546; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:12:50 -0700 (PDT) From: jdp@polstra.com Message-Id: <200010041612.e94GCo219546@vashon.polstra.com> To: arch@freebsd.org Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <20001004011709.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200010040727.e947RpH19302@netplex.com.au> <200010040750.e947oaH19391@netplex.com.au> <20001004011709.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Would you folks please be so kind as to trim the cc list before you hit that send button? John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 9:40:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (placeholder-dcat-1076843290.broadbandoffice.net [64.47.83.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A7237B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e94GdVR24384; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200010041639.e94GdVR24384@earth.backplane.com> To: Peter Wemm Cc: Chuck Paterson , Alfred Perlstein , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores References: <200010040727.e947RpH19302@netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is one of the few things I really hate in the linux source base. Besides, it isn't guarenteed to work. What happens if the process double-reparent's and the space pointed to by the original pptr is reallocated and reused in the second reparenting? That is, this cpu stalls after getting 'parent', the process is reparented (p->p_pptr changes), the process reparents AGAIN to a new just-allocated process which happens to use the original p->p_pptr's process's zalloc slot. In this case the contents of parent->p_pid can be garbage and the algorithm will not detect it. Now, granted, the chance of the above occuring is probably close to nil. From an algorithmic point of view, though, the below code (and the linux code) cannot actually guarentee correct operation without also make assumptions on side effects (for example, in regards to who is or is not actually allowed to become the new parent and whether the situation can occur with those restrictions in place). I would prefer not to see this sort of code in FreeBSD, even if it means slowing things down a little. -Matt :In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and :certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes :to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. : :int :getppid(p, uap) : struct proc *p; : struct getppid_args *uap; :{ : : p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pptr->p_pid; : return (0); :} : :could safely become: : :int :getppid(p, uap) : struct proc *p; : struct getppid_args *uap; :{ : struct proc *parent; : pid_t pid; : : parent = p->p_pptr; : pid = parent->p_pid; :#ifdef SMP : for (;;) { : __asm __volatile (": : : memory"); /* mb(); on x86 */ : if (parent == p->p_pptr) : break; : /* lost a race, our parent died and we reparented - redo */ : parent = p->p_pptr; : pid = parent->p_pid; : } :#endif : p->p_retval[0] = (register_t)pid; : return 0; :} : :This isn't quite the same as the linux version, but I'm pretty sure the :important races are covered just like theirs. The mb(); replacement could :be a real per-cpu mb instruction on arches that require it. Even if it is :just the gcc flush, it would be sufficient for 99.99999% of cases. : :Cheers, :-Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 10: 6:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from lists01.iafrica.com (lists01.iafrica.com [196.7.0.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD0137B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwl.fw.uunet.co.za ([196.31.2.162]) by lists01.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #2) id 13gs04-0002T1-00; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:06:36 +0200 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za (8.8.8/8.6.9) id TAA24660; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:06:37 +0200 (SAST) Received: by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za via recvmail id 24523; Wed Oct 4 19:05:38 2000 Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.fw.uunet.co.za) by axl.fw.uunet.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13grz8-000DI7-00; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:05:38 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Bruce Evans Cc: "David O'Brien" , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:29:37 +1100." Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:05:38 +0200 Message-ID: <51094.970679138@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:29:37 +1100, Bruce Evans wrote: > I thought you were going to move the manpages. Strictly, they belong > with their commands in usr.sbin, but most (all?) of them are so > trivial that they probably shouldn't exist. > ISTR that Sheldon plans to remove them. Correct. I've just given up waiting for section 4 replacements for ibcs2(8), osf1(8) (joy(4) and linux(4) already exist) and will be removing these little critters shortly. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 11:19:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C067437B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e94IJVM16718; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA38497; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010041819.MAA38497@harmony.village.org> To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:57:19 PDT." <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:19:30 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> "David O'Brien" writes: : Which of these two patches is most stomachable? Hmmm, neither. I'd suggest moving the joy program to usr.sbin. I'd then patch each arch like so: Index: Makefile.i386 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/imp/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/conf/Makefile.i386,v retrieving revision 1.207 diff -u -r1.207 Makefile.i386 --- Makefile.i386 2000/09/14 15:17:18 1.207 +++ Makefile.i386 2000/10/04 18:15:37 @@ -262,7 +262,8 @@ reinstall reinstall.debug: modules-reinstall .endif -MKMODULESENV= MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=${.OBJDIR}/modules KMODDIR=${DESTDIR}${KODIR} +MKMODULESENV= MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=${.OBJDIR}/modules KMODDIR=${DESTDIR}${KODIR} \ + NOMAN=yes modules: @mkdir -p ${.OBJDIR}/modules Of course the real solution is to repo copy them into /usr/share/man/man4, add them to the makefile there and remove the man stuff from the modules completely. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 11:21:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C6437B66C for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e94ILiM16745; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:21:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA38548; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200010041821.MAA38548@harmony.village.org> To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:05:38 +0200." <51094.970679138@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> References: <51094.970679138@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:21:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <51094.970679138@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Sheldon Hearn writes: : Correct. I've just given up waiting for section 4 replacements for : ibcs2(8), osf1(8) (joy(4) and linux(4) already exist) and will be : removing these little critters shortly. what about the netgraph man pages? did those move while I was alseep :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 11:50:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2CE937B502 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA47448; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:50:17 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Warner Losh Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001004115016.D11523@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> <200010041819.MAA38497@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200010041819.MAA38497@harmony.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:19:30PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:19:30PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd then patch each arch like so: > > Index: Makefile.i386 > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/imp/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sys/conf/Makefile.i386,v > retrieving revision 1.207 > diff -u -r1.207 Makefile.i386 > --- Makefile.i386 2000/09/14 15:17:18 1.207 > +++ Makefile.i386 2000/10/04 18:15:37 > @@ -262,7 +262,8 @@ > reinstall reinstall.debug: modules-reinstall > .endif > > -MKMODULESENV= MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=${.OBJDIR}/modules KMODDIR=${DESTDIR}${KODIR} > +MKMODULESENV= MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=${.OBJDIR}/modules KMODDIR=${DESTDIR}${KODIR} \ > + NOMAN=yes I tried that, but NOMAN from here isn't seen by kmod.mk included by the modules' Makefile. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 13:53: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F22737B66D for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22385; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAQ4aasR; Wed Oct 4 13:50:56 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01516; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:52:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010042052.NAA01516@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores To: dillon@earth.backplane.com (Matt Dillon) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:52:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200010041639.e94GdVR24384@earth.backplane.com> from "Matt Dillon" at Oct 04, 2000 09:39:31 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, granted, the chance of the above occuring is probably close to nil. > From an algorithmic point of view, though, the below code (and the > linux code) cannot actually guarentee correct operation without also > make assumptions on side effects (for example, in regards to who is > or is not actually allowed to become the new parent and whether the > situation can occur with those restrictions in place). > > I would prefer not to see this sort of code in FreeBSD, even if it means > slowing things down a little. I concur. Correctness is always preferrable to speed. Look at the Human Genome Project supposedly being solved by a commercial company sequencing everything, and then expecting to be able to correctly sort it out later through pattern matching. Reminds me of Java garbage collection... PS: Cc: trimmed per JDP's request; hope I didn't drop anyone, since this sort of trimming is rightfully the job of the mailing list software's duplicate supression code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 15: 4:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from netplex.com.au (adsl-63-207-30-186.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.207.30.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F4637B502 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netplex.com.au (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netplex.com.au (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e94M4XH22892; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200010042204.e94M4XH22892@netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Matt Dillon Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <200010041639.e94GdVR24384@earth.backplane.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:04:33 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > This is one of the few things I really hate in the linux source base. > > Besides, it isn't guarenteed to work. What happens if the process > double-reparent's and the space pointed to by the original pptr is > reallocated and reused in the second reparenting? That is, this > cpu stalls after getting 'parent', the process is reparented > (p->p_pptr changes), the process reparents AGAIN to a new just-allocated > process which happens to use the original p->p_pptr's process's zalloc > slot. In this case the contents of parent->p_pid can be garbage and > the algorithm will not detect it. If it's double-reparented? I don't see that as a big issue. Consider: - Suppose you are a child of pid 10. - While you are doing a getppid, pid 10 exits and you loose the race. - You were reparented to pid 1 (init) as part of 10's exit/cleanup. - If pid 1 exits, where are you going to be reparented to? init dying is a kernel panic offence. Using ptrace() reparenting is different, it doesn't involve processes going away. You are simply switched from one parent to another, and both keep going. There is no race here, even if your original parent immediately dies. If the ptrace() parent dies, we are screwed anyway because we are abandoned in SSTOP state and never get woken up. I dont think ptrace() is even nearly smp safe yet anyway, especially if the debugger and child are on different cpus and both running at PT_ATTACH time. .. Unless I am missing something, I dont see any possibility of a race. And even if there is one, the double-reparenting can be detected by an additional pid test or generation numbers, or whatever. Anyway, before: getppid: pushl %ebp movl %esp,%ebp movl 8(%ebp),%eax movl 68(%eax),%edx movl 48(%edx),%edx movl %edx,248(%eax) xorl %eax,%eax leave ret After: getppid: pushl %ebp movl %esp,%ebp movl 8(%ebp),%edx .L187: movl 68(%edx),%eax movl 48(%eax),%ecx cmpl 68(%edx),%eax /* new */ jne .L187 /* new */ movl %ecx,248(%edx) xorl %eax,%eax leave ret gcc does a pretty good job optimizing this. Also, we dont have a preemptable kernel (and if we did, then this is the least of our problems). In the SMP case, the cpu is going to have to be running an interrupt for a really long time in order for another cpu to complete the double exit processing. A simple interrupt disable would remove this window for the local cpu as well. (mutexes disable interrupts internally, so this is no loss compared to using a mutex). > Now, granted, the chance of the above occuring is probably close to nil. > From an algorithmic point of view, though, the below code (and the > linux code) cannot actually guarentee correct operation without also > make assumptions on side effects (for example, in regards to who is > or is not actually allowed to become the new parent and whether the > situation can occur with those restrictions in place). > > I would prefer not to see this sort of code in FreeBSD, even if it means > slowing things down a little. I understand. However, this is a cheap speedup for both getpid() and getppid() that we can get *now*. We dont have an infrastructure for locking the proc hierarchy yet. As soon as we do, I'd be quite happy to rip this out and replace it with the correct mutexes or whatever. getpid() and/or getppid() are quite heavily hammered in certain benchmarks. > -Matt > > :In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and > :certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes > :to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. > : > :int > :getppid(p, uap) > : struct proc *p; > : struct getppid_args *uap; > :{ > : > : p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pptr->p_pid; > : return (0); > :} > : > :could safely become: > : > :int > :getppid(p, uap) > : struct proc *p; > : struct getppid_args *uap; > :{ > : struct proc *parent; > : pid_t pid; > : > : parent = p->p_pptr; > : pid = parent->p_pid; > :#ifdef SMP > : for (;;) { > : __asm __volatile (": : : memory"); /* mb(); on x86 */ > : if (parent == p->p_pptr) > : break; > : /* lost a race, our parent died and we reparented - redo */ > : parent = p->p_pptr; > : pid = parent->p_pid; > : } > :#endif > : p->p_retval[0] = (register_t)pid; > : return 0; > :} > : > :This isn't quite the same as the linux version, but I'm pretty sure the > :important races are covered just like theirs. The mb(); replacement could > :be a real per-cpu mb instruction on arches that require it. Even if it is > :just the gcc flush, it would be sufficient for 99.99999% of cases. > : > :Cheers, > :-Peter > > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 16:43:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (placeholder-dcat-1076843290.broadbandoffice.net [64.47.83.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E669F37B676 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e94NhRe31401; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:43:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200010042343.e94NhRe31401@earth.backplane.com> To: Peter Wemm Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores References: <200010042204.e94M4XH22892@netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :.. Unless I am missing something, I dont see any possibility of a race. And :even if there is one, the double-reparenting can be detected by an additional :pid test or generation numbers, or whatever. The point, Peter, is exactly the one I made in my last email: In order to justify this sort of optimization you have to run through a whole list of reasons to 'guarentee' that it will not cause a problem. What you have done is not added a simple optimization, but you have added a whole slew of code of UNDOCUMENTED code requirements on process reparenting. If down the line process reparenting changes at all, it could screw your optimization... even the smallest change to reparenting could destabillize the kernel. By introducing your optimization, you have created a whole slew of *REQUIREMENTS* on how the reparenting must act in order to not create new instabilities in the system. If at some future date reparenting changes (just as ptrace & debuggers changed it from the original 'process 1 always gets it' code), and breaks your SMP optimization, *NOBODY* will realize it until instabilities creep into the system, possibly months or years later, and it could take just as long to track it back down. It's that simple... these sort of optimizations only cause problems down the road. As an example I can point to the NFS code before I fixed it, which made so many assumptions about the buffer cache that even the most innocuous (and perfectly legal) change to the buffer cache code could break NFS. It is precisely these sorts of assumptions that were responsible for easily 20% of the bugs in the VM and NFS subsystems. Optimizations that may have worked when they were originally put in, but were so fragile that they broke over time due to changes made to seemingly unrelated interfaces within the kernel. It is NOT WORTH IT. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 18:40:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E82537B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07356; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:40:20 +1100 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:40:16 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: Matt Dillon Cc: Peter Wemm , Chuck Paterson , Alfred Perlstein , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <200010041639.e94GdVR24384@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Matt Dillon wrote: [Writing reordered to reply after quoted material] [Peter Wemm wrote] > :int > :getppid(p, uap) > : struct proc *p; > : struct getppid_args *uap; > :{ > : struct proc *parent; > : pid_t pid; > : > : parent = p->p_pptr; > : pid = parent->p_pid; > :#ifdef SMP > : for (;;) { > : __asm __volatile (": : : memory"); /* mb(); on x86 */ > : if (parent == p->p_pptr) > : break; > : /* lost a race, our parent died and we reparented - redo */ > : parent = p->p_pptr; > : pid = parent->p_pid; > : } > :#endif > : p->p_retval[0] = (register_t)pid; > : return 0; > :} > This is one of the few things I really hate in the linux source base. This seems to be only to win getppid() benchmarks. Complications like it might be justified in inner loops of syscalls that are called somewhat more than once at most in normal programs. It's too hard to do things this in the thousands of places that would be necessary to get a uniform speedup. > Besides, it isn't guarenteed to work. What happens if the process > double-reparent's and the space pointed to by the original pptr is > reallocated and reused in the second reparenting? That is, this > Now, granted, the chance of the above occuring is probably close to nil. > From an algorithmic point of view, though, the below code (and the > linux code) cannot actually guarentee correct operation without also > make assumptions on side effects (for example, in regards to who is > or is not actually allowed to become the new parent and whether the > situation can occur with those restrictions in place). I think we know that only init can become the new parent provided we can assume that the pointer access to determine to parent is atomic. > I would prefer not to see this sort of code in FreeBSD, even if it means > slowing things down a little. I agree. Locking for file accesses slows things down much more, but not significantly except for too-small i/o sizes. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 18:46:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5446737B66D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e951k0J03587; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:46:00 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Bruce Evans Cc: Matt Dillon , Peter Wemm , Chuck Paterson , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Message-ID: <20001004184559.Q27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200010041639.e94GdVR24384@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from bde@zeta.org.au on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 12:40:16PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Bruce Evans [001004 18:40] wrote: > On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Matt Dillon wrote: > > [Writing reordered to reply after quoted material] > > [Peter Wemm wrote] > > > :int > > :getppid(p, uap) > > : struct proc *p; > > : struct getppid_args *uap; > > :{ > > : struct proc *parent; > > : pid_t pid; > > : > > : parent = p->p_pptr; > > : pid = parent->p_pid; > > :#ifdef SMP > > : for (;;) { > > : __asm __volatile (": : : memory"); /* mb(); on x86 */ > > : if (parent == p->p_pptr) > > : break; > > : /* lost a race, our parent died and we reparented - redo */ > > : parent = p->p_pptr; > > : pid = parent->p_pid; > > : } > > :#endif > > : p->p_retval[0] = (register_t)pid; > > : return 0; > > :} > > > This is one of the few things I really hate in the linux source base. > > This seems to be only to win getppid() benchmarks. Complications like it > might be justified in inner loops of syscalls that are called somewhat > more than once at most in normal programs. It's too hard to do things > this in the thousands of places that would be necessary to get a uniform > speedup. the idea is to reduce inter-cpu communication, lock-less systems are a terrific idea but hard to get right, we have two choices: 1) do it right and _not_ cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention 2) do it right and cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention It's my opinion that something simple like getpid shouldn't cause a locked bus cycle if at all possible. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 19:19:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (mass.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CE637B503 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e952Leh01021; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200010050221.e952Leh01021@mass.osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:46:00 PDT." <20001004184559.Q27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:21:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > the idea is to reduce inter-cpu communication, lock-less systems are a > terrific idea but hard to get right, we have two choices: > > 1) do it right and _not_ cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention > 2) do it right and cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention > > It's my opinion that something simple like getpid shouldn't cause a > locked bus cycle if at all possible. Under the circumstances, there are so many other things that we should be worrying about that the trivial performance win here is entirely offset by the confusion and irritation that it may cause later if we violate the assumptions this code makes. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 19:37:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au (gidora.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 41BED37B66C for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22071 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2000 02:37:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bde.zeta.org.au) (203.2.228.102) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 5 Oct 2000 02:37:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:36:57 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , Peter Wemm , Chuck Paterson , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Polstra , Daniel Eischen , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores In-Reply-To: <20001004184559.Q27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Bruce Evans [001004 18:40] wrote: > > This seems to be only to win getppid() benchmarks. Complications like it > > might be justified in inner loops of syscalls that are called somewhat > > more than once at most in normal programs. It's too hard to do things > > this in the thousands of places that would be necessary to get a uniform > > speedup. > > the idea is to reduce inter-cpu communication, lock-less systems are a > terrific idea but hard to get right, we have two choices: > > 1) do it right and _not_ cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention > 2) do it right and cause extra lock/cpu/bus contention 3) Do it right and make it work before you make it faster. Optimizing getppid() is instructive but not very useful. Look at how much work it takes to optimize one apparently-trivial line of code. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 4 21:59:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3F937B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25603; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:56:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAzzaqUX; Wed Oct 4 21:56:13 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07440; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:58:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010050458.VAA07440@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:58:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dillon@earth.backplane.com (Matt Dillon), peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm), cp@bsdi.com (Chuck Paterson), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), jhb@FreeBSD.ORG (John Baldwin), arch@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra), eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen), grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) In-Reply-To: from "Bruce Evans" at Oct 05, 2000 12:40:16 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This seems to be only to win getppid() benchmarks. Complications like it > might be justified in inner loops of syscalls that are called somewhat > more than once at most in normal programs. It's too hard to do things > this in the thousands of places that would be necessary to get a uniform > speedup. Well screw that, that's not the way to win getppid() benchmarks! The real way to cheat is to double map a read-only page into user space from kernel space, and have it just dereference a pid_t * into the relevent page. I even know a UNIX that did this, once upon a time... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 0:20:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from lists01.iafrica.com (lists01.iafrica.com [196.7.0.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B345D37B503 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwl.fw.uunet.co.za ([196.31.2.162]) by lists01.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #2) id 13h5KQ-000203-00; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:20:30 +0200 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za (8.8.8/8.6.9) id JAA09840; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:20:33 +0200 (SAST) Received: by nwl.fw.uunet.co.za via recvmail id 4418; Thu Oct 5 09:06:02 2000 Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.fw.uunet.co.za) by axl.fw.uunet.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13h56Q-000CoG-00; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:06:02 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Warner Losh Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:21:43 CST." <200010041821.MAA38548@harmony.village.org> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:06:02 +0200 Message-ID: <49243.970729562@axl.fw.uunet.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:21:43 CST, Warner Losh wrote: > : Correct. I've just given up waiting for section 4 replacements for > : ibcs2(8), osf1(8) (joy(4) and linux(4) already exist) and will be > : removing these little critters shortly. > > what about the netgraph man pages? did those move while I was alseep > :-) Yes. Archie was happy for me to move them. In my local source tree, the only manual pages that exist are for the boot subdir, and pfil.9 which was recently imported into the wrong place (IMO). The repo will look the same RSN. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 0:22:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (placeholder-dcat-1076843290.broadbandoffice.net [64.47.83.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA20F37B66C; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e957MbF33401; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 00:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200010050722.e957MbF33401@earth.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), dillon@earth.backplane.com (Matt Dillon), peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm), cp@bsdi.com (Chuck Paterson), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), jhb@FreeBSD.ORG (John Baldwin), arch@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra), eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen), grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores References: <200010050458.VAA07440@usr07.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> more than once at most in normal programs. It's too hard to do things :> this in the thousands of places that would be necessary to get a uniform :> speedup. : :Well screw that, that's not the way to win getppid() :benchmarks! : :The real way to cheat is to double map a read-only page into user :space from kernel space, and have it just dereference a pid_t * :into the relevent page. : :I even know a UNIX that did this, once upon a time... Heh. no syscall overhead at all, but that does introduce forward/backwards version compatibility problems. Another solution is to have the kernel double-map the system call function table and have userland call the indexed function directly. This would allow the system to implement some 'system calls' entirely in userland which could then access the shared memory map without introducing any forward or backwards compatibility issues. I used this trick in several of the embedded OS's I've done over the years. Who gives a fart about getpid() ... now time() is a function that would benefit greatly from a globally shared userland read-only page! -Matt : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 7:16:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B7637B66E for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from modemcable136.203-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.201.203.136]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0G1M000PIEMPT0@falla.videotron.net> for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Re: spinlocks and acquire pseudo-priority In-reply-to: <200009280829.BAA11680@usr02.primenet.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > The simple answer is "use "for(;;)" instead of something with a > loop index". > > The fact is, there is just as much probability of C losing a > race with B for a contended resource formerly held by A under > normal circumstances, as there is for it losing because of the > conditions which you describe. > > The answer is: it doesn't matter -- you only ever use a spinlock > to do one of two things: > > 1) Eat the overhead of a heavyweight non-spinning lock > > 2) Contend a resource which will be available in a small > amount of time anyway, so it doesn't matter whether > you get it first or second > > If you really cared about FIFO, FILO, or prioritization or some > other policy based ordering on lock acquisition, you would not > use spinlocks; you would use turnstiles and "wake one", or you > would use some other policy cognizant mechanism for doing the > granting. > > FWIW, this means you wouldn't use a mutex, either. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. The problem is not the semantics of a spin lock. The problem is that there are "tolerance" numbers which are clearly not acceptable for machines with multiple CPUs. The numbers should at least be scaled such that they are multiplied by the number of CPUs. For your information, a for(;;) loop is being used. The index is there just to be able to tell what iteration we're at and to panic() if we've iterated for what we think is too long. Cheers, Bosko Milekic bmilekic@technokratis.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 11:53:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4700B37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@dhcp248.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.248]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e95Irdi09940; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20001003105319.B64436@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: "David O'Brien" Subject: RE: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Oct-00 David O'Brien wrote: > I believe before someone mentioned that they'd like to move the manpages > out of /sys/modules. Is anyone against doing this for ibcs2.8, joy.8, > linux.8, osf1.8, svr4.8. Please do. And please move the shell scripts while you are at it. > The problem is that one cannot build a kernel and install it in > isolation: > > make KERNEL=GENERIC KODIR=/GENERIC DESTDIR=/tmp/foo install > mkdir -p /tmp/foo/GENERIC > install -c -m 555 -o root -g wheel -fschg kernel /tmp/foo/GENERIC > cd ../../modules && env > MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC/modules KMODDIR=/GENERIC > make install > ===> 3dfx > install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 3dfx.ko /tmp/foo/GENERIC > ...snip... > ===> joy > install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 joy.ko /tmp/foo/GENERIC > install -c -o root -g wheel -m 444 joy.8.gz /tmp/foo/usr/share/man/man8 > install: /tmp/foo/usr/share/man/man8: No such file or directory > *** Error code 71 > > -- > -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 11:53:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E300637B672; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@dhcp248.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.248]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e95Irei09944; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: "David O'Brien" Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-Oct-00 David O'Brien wrote: > On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:53:19AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: >> The problem is that one cannot build a kernel and install it in >> isolation: > > Which of these two patches is most stomachable? Why not just repo-copy the files to the appropriate places in src/share/man and src/usr.bin/linux, etc. and do it that way? --- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 12:36:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8A237B66C; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA98926; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:36:45 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001005123644.A56993@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org References: <20001003125719.A3635@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:53:54AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:53:54AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Why not just repo-copy the files to the appropriate > places in src/share/man and src/usr.bin/linux, etc. > and do it that way? I've asked for a repo copy of the scripts. Sheldon is dealing with the manpages. I've asked for the shell scripts to go into usr.sbin as these really aren't general user commands. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 13: 9:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C9137B66D for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@dhcp248.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.248]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e95K7Ai12482; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200010040750.e947oaH19391@netplex.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Peter Wemm Subject: Re: Mutexes and semaphores Cc: Greg Lehey , Matt Dillon , Daniel Eischen , John Polstra , arch@FreeBSD.org, Alfred Perlstein , Chuck Paterson Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Oct-00 Peter Wemm wrote: > Peter Wemm wrote: >> Chuck Paterson wrote: >> > Your right, not freeing these things ever does make things >> > lots easier. >> > >> > Chuck >> >> In the freebsd case, this is the case. Zones are never cleaned up, and >> certainly not unmapped. zfree() will however cause the first few bytes >> to be clobbered as they are reused for the freelist. > > Actually, a final version is at: > http://people.freebsd.org/~peter/getppid.diff > > This produces nice tight assembler code. The SMP reentrancy protection > adds two instructions.. one cmp and one conditional branch which gets taken > if there is a lost race. It hardly seems worth #ifdef'ing it (and it isn't > ifdefed in the diff). This diff is missing is the MPSAFE flag for the > getppid syscall, but thats trivial to add (for native syscalls and all other > syscall vectors that call getppid directly). Darn it, review my barrier_foo() functions on the new-bus list so you can use that instead of a manual assembler mb(); :-P > Cheers, > -Peter -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 20:16:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D8337B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from foo.osd.bsdi.com (root@foo.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.137]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e963GYi26644; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:16:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by foo.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e963E9Z43767; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20001005123644.A56993@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Organization: BSD, Inc. From: John Baldwin To: "David O'Brien" Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Oct-00 David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:53:54AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >> Why not just repo-copy the files to the appropriate >> places in src/share/man and src/usr.bin/linux, etc. >> and do it that way? > > I've asked for a repo copy of the scripts. Sheldon is dealing with the > manpages. I've asked for the shell scripts to go into usr.sbin as these > really aren't general user commands. Sounds good to me. Although, I really agree with Bruce's sentiment to just axe the things. 'joy' is very worthless since you can already do 'kdload joy', or add 'joy_load="YES"' to /boot/loader.conf. Also, 'linux', 'osf1', etc. are also rather useless since we have 'linux_compat', 'osf1_compat' knobs in rc.conf already. I'd vote to just kill the trivial scripts and just keep the manpages. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.Baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 20:42: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D60737B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adlmail.cup.hp.com (adlmail.cup.hp.com [15.0.100.30]) by palrel3.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2E8702; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cup.hp.com (p1000180.nsr.hp.com [15.109.0.180]) by adlmail.cup.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id UAA04622; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39DD4A06.F0ABA519@cup.hp.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:41:58 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar Organization: Hewlett-Packard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: "David O'Brien" , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > > Sounds good to me. Although, I really agree with Bruce's sentiment > to just axe the things. 'joy' is very worthless since you can already > do 'kdload joy', or add 'joy_load="YES"' to /boot/loader.conf. Also, > 'linux', 'osf1', etc. are also rather useless since we have > 'linux_compat', 'osf1_compat' knobs in rc.conf already. I'd vote to > just kill the trivial scripts and just keep the manpages. If sysinstall has been taken into account WRT to loading the linux module after installing the linux_base package, then I approve of removing linux.sh. It was my impression Sheldon was working towards removing the script as well as working on the manpages. -- Marcel Moolenaar mail: marcel@cup.hp.com / marcel@FreeBSD.org tel: (408) 447-4222 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 20:47:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-63-202-176-106.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.176.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0740E37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e963mwh04217; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200010060348.e963mwh04217@mass.osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:14:09 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:48:58 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've asked for a repo copy of the scripts. Sheldon is dealing with the > > manpages. I've asked for the shell scripts to go into usr.sbin as these > > really aren't general user commands. > > Sounds good to me. Although, I really agree with Bruce's sentiment > to just axe the things. 'joy' is very worthless since you can already > do 'kdload joy', or add 'joy_load="YES"' to /boot/loader.conf. Also, > 'linux', 'osf1', etc. are also rather useless since we have > 'linux_compat', 'osf1_compat' knobs in rc.conf already. I'd vote to > just kill the trivial scripts and just keep the manpages. 'linux' at least is nontrivial, since it updates the Linux dynamic linker cache. 'osf1' may do the same thing (although I have not checked). -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 21:14:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FC037B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from foo.osd.bsdi.com (root@foo.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.137]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e964EIi27655; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by foo.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e964Bsl44188; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200010060348.e963mwh04217@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Organization: BSD, Inc. From: John Baldwin To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Oct-00 Mike Smith wrote: >> > I've asked for a repo copy of the scripts. Sheldon is dealing with the >> > manpages. I've asked for the shell scripts to go into usr.sbin as these >> > really aren't general user commands. >> >> Sounds good to me. Although, I really agree with Bruce's sentiment >> to just axe the things. 'joy' is very worthless since you can already >> do 'kdload joy', or add 'joy_load="YES"' to /boot/loader.conf. Also, >> 'linux', 'osf1', etc. are also rather useless since we have >> 'linux_compat', 'osf1_compat' knobs in rc.conf already. I'd vote to >> just kill the trivial scripts and just keep the manpages. > > 'linux' at least is nontrivial, since it updates the Linux dynamic linker > cache. 'osf1' may do the same thing (although I have not checked). Does 'compat_linux' do this as well in /etc/rc*? However, that is a more convincing argument to keep 'linux' at least. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.Baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 5 23:32:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7665A37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA03188; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:32:16 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001005233216.E2087@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001005123644.A56993@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 08:14:09PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 08:14:09PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Sounds good to me. Although, I really agree with Bruce's sentiment > to just axe the things. 'joy' is very worthless since you can already > do 'kdload joy', or add 'joy_load="YES"' to /boot/loader.conf. Also, > 'linux', 'osf1', etc. are also rather useless since we have > 'linux_compat', 'osf1_compat' knobs in rc.conf already. I'd vote to > just kill the trivial scripts and just keep the manpages. I don't have an opinion, so I'll follow what ever the crowd wants. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 6 0:18:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7407737B503 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA03466 for arch@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:18:13 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: moving manpages out of /sys/modules Message-ID: <20001006001813.A3444@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200010060348.e963mwh04217@mass.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010060348.e963mwh04217@mass.osd.bsdi.com>; from msmith@freebsd.org on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 08:48:58PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 08:48:58PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > 'linux' at least is nontrivial, since it updates the Linux dynamic linker > cache. Agreed. > 'osf1' may do the same thing (although I have not checked). Nope, the only thing it does is just keep from kldload'ing it twice. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message