From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 30 1:46:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2379D37BC22 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: by super-g.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 68003BCDB; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 49577BCD9; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, spork wrote: > Hi, > Yes, I replied to all. You can all stop telling me that now, thanks. C > "...there's no idea that's so good you can't > ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." (like the reply-to-all default) > On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > >Sales pitch: > > > > > > > >If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... > > > > > > > >IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post > > > >graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick > > > >leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to > > > >miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. > > > > > > > >We (Whistle Communications, Inc.) are a predominantly FreeBSD > > > >shop within IBM. We not only need good people and are willing > > > >to pay for them (stock options are a 1:20 lottery, whereas a > > > >higher base salary can be invested however you like, at whatever > > > >level of risk you like, instead of betting the farm that your > > > >startup will IPO before it burns all its cash), we also need > > > >people to help spread the BSD gospel to the rest of IBM. 8-). > > > > > > All sounds good.... But what if folks want to live someplace > > > really NICE, like Laramie? > > > > I believe we are open to telecommuting, for reasonable > > definitions of that. You'd probably have to fly in for > > two (or three) weeks to start, and then be willing to do > > some phone/video conference time, telephone calls with > > team meetings and your manager, and occasional fly ins > > (at least once a month, perhaps more frequently, if there > > were a lot of meetings because a project was kicking off > > or nearing release). > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 30 6: 2:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (msb-ts-slip10.UMDNJ.EDU [130.219.28.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D64E037BC11 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 60107 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 15:15:34 -0000 Received: from localhost.abuselabs.com (HELO localhost) (missnglnk@127.0.0.1) by localhost.abuselabs.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 15:15:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:15:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Alexander Langer , Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org *WARNING* I'm not a procmail/regexp expert. *WARNING* From what I've seen Delivered-To is always two lines under 'Received: by hub.freebsd.org', so would this work: * ^Received: by hub\.freebsd\.org.* * .* * ^Delivered-To: freebsd-\/(i18n|scsi|qa|new-bus|arch|multimedia|ipfw|newbies|bugs|emulation|advocacy|hardware|chat|net|fs|doc|security|isdn|ports|questions|current|announce|stable|hackers)@freebsd.org * MATCH ?? ^^\/[^@]+ mail/freebsd/$MATCH On 29 Apr 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Alexander Langer writes: > > This filter works for me: > > > > :0: > > * ^Delivered-To: freebsd-\/(i18n|scsi|qa|new-bus|arch|multimedia|ipfw|newbies|bugs|emulation|advocacy|hardware|chat|net|fs|doc|security|isdn|ports|questions|current|announce|stable|hackers)@freebsd.org > > * MATCH ?? ^^\/[^@]+ > > $MATCH > > It won't work for people who use QMail or Postfix, because they set > the Delivered-To: header to the final recipient (mail from the lists > contains a Delivered-To: header because hub runs Postfix and Majordomo > doesn't strip the header before forwarding the mail). Use Sender: > instead. > > DES > -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://tribune.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: C8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 30 7:49:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (msb-ts-slip10.UMDNJ.EDU [130.219.28.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 25E7337B749 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 72038 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 14:49:48 -0000 Received: from localhost.abuselabs.com (HELO localhost) (missnglnk@127.0.0.1) by localhost.abuselabs.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 14:49:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:49:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Alexander Langer , Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ignore last messag. Very Very Very Old E-Mail. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://tribune.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: C8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 30 23:30:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A4437B9A4 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05686 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:09:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA68366 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 00:34:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 00:34:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Kris Kirby To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org last pid: 78372; load averages: 1.07, 1.26, 1.44 up 19+08:36:25 01:23:55 56 processes: 3 running, 53 sleeping Mem: 126M Active, 31M Inact, 23M Wired, 5928K Cache, 8344K Buf, 700K Free Swap: 300M Total, 169M Used, 131M Free, 56% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 24647 kris 105 20 1024K 404K RUN 276.2H 96.19% 96.19% dnetc 77067 kris 2 0 259M 123M select 176:15 2.39% 2.39% netscape 78371 kris 28 0 1568K 792K RUN 0:00 0.00% 0.00% top 78372 kris 28 0 468K 280K RUN 0:00 0.00% 0.00% csh That's only *one* day's worth of surfing. It's 3.4-R, Netscape 4.08. I'm beinging to think I need to install it on my dual-Celeron 433 with 320 MB of RAM instead. Then it won't need to page. As it is, the above machine (the one top was taken from) has 192 MB of RAM. This is the *worst* I have ever accomplished, if you can call it an accomplishment. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 1 0: 5:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.bafug.org (chicago.mooseriver.com [209.133.53.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE91F37B890 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 00:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.bafug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.bafug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA58097 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 May 2000 00:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <200005010705.AAA58097@agora.bafug.org> Subject: BAFUG Announce To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 00:05:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is the monthly BAFUG posting. It contains 3 sections; Jobs, Counter, and Retail notice. This is posted on the first of the month. If there are any questions please send them to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Thanks *** JOBS NOTICE *** San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is : http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html Employers: The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com. Employees: When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page. *** COUNTER NOTICE *** FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. *** RETAIL NOTICE *** Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. -- $Id: BafugAnnounce.txt,v 1.2 1999/10/01 07:10:24 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 1 15:35:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6DC37B975; Mon, 1 May 2000 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keichii@iteration.net) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 587425BA2; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:43:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:43:47 -0500 From: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, danatk@aol.com Subject: Forward: [DanAtk@aol.com: CCMATH] Message-ID: <20000430144347.A31194@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i X-FreeBSD-Header: This is a subliminal message from the vast FreeBSD conspiracy project. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD peorth.iteration.net 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Forwarded message from DanAtk@aol.com ----- Delivered-To: keichii@iteration.net From: DanAtk@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:54:44 EDT Subject: CCMATH To: keichii@iteration.net X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 100 Michael, I have considered your suggestion on the license of the CCMATH package, and believe that it is reasonable. Thus, version ccmath-2.1.0, which should be available this coming week, will be issued under the LGPL license. After all, FreeBSD is a good cause! I would like to receive suggestions for additions to the library from the users, since I am currently planning to extend it. Thank you for calling the current license limitation to my attention. Dan Atkinson ----- End forwarded message ----- w00t! :) Will the port maintainer update ports/math/ccmath soon? Thank you, Dan :) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net - Yes, this is a conspiracy. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 2: 5:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (GndRsh.dnsmgr.net [198.145.92.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9298037B642 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04147; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <200005020900.CAA04147@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: hlt instructions and temperature issues In-Reply-To: <200005012233.PAA18008@freeway.dcfinc.com> from "Chad R. Larson" at "May 1, 2000 03:33:57 pm" To: chad@DCFinc.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dr@dursec.com, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, djb@ifa.au.dk, smp@csn.net, chat@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Moved to -chat, left others on thread in cc's, they may want to drop out though.. also I am not on chat, so I'll loose the thread if someone chops the cc's] > As I recall, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Right along with the chain breaking/hammer bank smoking code for the > > 1403 printers.... basically a very specific sequence of lines with > > very special character sequences could cause 1/3 of the hammer bank to > > fire every 14uS or so, do that for more than 10 cycles or so and you > > could litterly break the print character chain. De-optimize it for > > chain breaking and run it for 10 minutes and you would start smoking > > the hammer coils.... > > Ah, yes. I had one that would play "The Iowa Fight Song" (I was > working for Collins Radio in Cedar Rapids at the time--circa 1969). > > Worked best with a single sheet of paper, and the paper thickness > set for 6-part forms (very rattley). And the feed clutch > open, so you could use "line feed" as a drum-beat. We had a printer > controller (built by Collins, the 8401 I believe) that would allow > you to gang printers, in case you needed more than 6 copies. Get > five or six printers going and you could hear the song all over the > building. I seem to remember one of my cow-workers wrote "On > Wisconsin" as well. Thats a new one on me! Or at least the use of a printer to make ``computer music''. We use to do that with PDP-8's and an AM radio, you did diffent pitches by loop length and device type. I've heard bach done on a pdp-8, pretty impresive for a 100kHz computer :-O. > > But shattering the chain was pretty spectacular. You'd want to be sure > the covers were down or someone could get hurt. The IBM CEs loved us. Yea, them little slugs go every which way. > > Sometime I should tell you about making the Bryant disk drives walk > across the floor... Easy.. done that with lots of disk drives... ever see a 5MB RK05 rack mount unit pop itself out of the cabnet... I was lazy and those things where heavy! Just unlatch it then run this... n=#cylinders while true do; seek 0; for 1 to n seek n; done ; And when your done with the head alignment and don't feel like shoving it back in by hand run this... n=#cylinders while true do; seek n for n to 1 seek n; done ; Or was that the other way around.... any way most drives can be made to move considerable distances with this type of code, even a modern IDE drive on sitting on a piece of glass or other low friction surface can be made to move this way. > > -crl > -- > Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? > chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net > DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 > -- Rod Grimes - KD7CAX @ CN85sl - (RWG25) rgrimes@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 8:56:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6045A37BE20 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 08:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e42Ftsx25152 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: N-port NIC Qs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here are a couple of really inane questions concerning multi-port NICs that have been burning holes in what's left of my gray matter. The N-port NICs show up as N distinct devices? They just happen to all use the same PCI slot. What are the downsides of using one like the dual port Intel card? Does FreeBSD have support for the Adaptec Quartet four-port card? Thanks. -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 9:44:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mercurio.ie-online.it (dns.ie-online.it [194.133.148.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1555C37BAF1 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sriva@gufi.org) Received: from attila.ie-interna.it (host1.ie-online.it [194.133.148.10]) by mercurio.ie-online.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26879 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 18:43:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sriva@gufi.org) Received: from riva (riva.ie-interna.it [192.168.0.33]) by attila.ie-interna.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA54427 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 18:43:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sriva@gufi.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000502184339.00ac3690@civetta.gufi.org> X-Sender: riva@civetta.gufi.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:43:39 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Stefano Riva Subject: First Italian FreeBSD User Group meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry for the OT, but this is to announce the first meeting of the GUFI (Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia). We need to reach as many Italians as possible this very first time, and I'm sure that -questions is the best channel. We will meet in Bologna, at the Fair main entrance, Friday 19th May - 7:30 PM (just in case some english-speaking user will be in Bologna... he/she will be welcome), then we will move to a pizza restaurant. --- La prima convention GUFI con annessa pizzata e' fissata per la sera di venerdi' 19 maggio a Bologna. Scopo di questo primo incontro sara' ovviamente conoscerci e discutere del futuro di FreeBSD e del GUFI. Il ritrovo e' fissato di fronte all'ingresso principale della Fiera a partire dalle 19:30 circa; aspetteremo una mezz'ora e poi cercheremo un locale, visto che non ci aspettiamo di essere in molti. Per le prossime edizioni cercheremo di organizzare qualcosa di piu' "raffinato". Per raggiungere l'ingresso della Fiera in auto venendo da fuori seguite le indicazioni ed eventualmente chiedete al casellante uscendo dall'autostrada. Non sara' difficile riconoscersi; qualcuno avra' sicuramente una maglietta di FreeBSD o qualcosa di simile... inoltre una delle macchine dovrebbe essere una Micra color argento. Sono tutti benvenuti! --- Stefano Riva sriva@gufi.org Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia http://www.gufi.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 10:55:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C354437BC39 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA92913; Tue, 2 May 2000 12:55:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:55:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: N-port NIC Qs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 2 May 2000, Steve Price wrote: > Here are a couple of really inane questions concerning multi-port > NICs that have been burning holes in what's left of my gray matter. > > The N-port NICs show up as N distinct devices? They just happen > to all use the same PCI slot. What are the downsides of using > one like the dual port Intel card? Does FreeBSD have support for > the Adaptec Quartet four-port card? Here's what an Intel dual-port looks like in one of my servers: chip5: rev 0x03 on pci1.9.0 Probing for devices on PCI bus 2: fxp6: rev 0x05 int a irq 5 on pci2.4.0 fxp6: Ethernet address 00:08:c7:07:b2:95 fxp7: rev 0x05 int a irq 5 on pci2.5.0 fxp7: Ethernet address 00:08:c7:07:b2:96 The card just has its own PCI bridge with two 82558B controllers on the other side. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures. ( http://www.freebsd.org ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 13: 8: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F1437BCB7 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@tutopia.com) Received: from tutopia.com ([168.176.3.33]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA11E6 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 15:06:17 -0400 Message-ID: <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:51:53 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Bad PR for the Linux camp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Some students here were preparing an event to celebrate the birthday of their University. These students contacted Linus Torvalds and invited him to be the main guest of the event. Some FreeBSD users were tempted to go. I had completely forgotten the event, but the newspaper commented today that Linus never arrived. No details were known, but this kind of accidents don't open new space for "Opensource". It's also a shame because bigger local Universities will think twice before inviting him. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 14:28:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10A037BB14 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 14:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24661; Tue, 2 May 2000 14:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAz4ayeW; Tue May 2 14:27:33 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00936; Tue, 2 May 2000 14:27:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! To: kris@hiwaay.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:27:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kirby" at May 01, 2000 12:34:22 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND > 24647 kris 105 20 1024K 404K RUN 276.2H 96.19% 96.19% dnetc > 77067 kris 2 0 259M 123M select 176:15 2.39% 2.39% netscape > 78371 kris 28 0 1568K 792K RUN 0:00 0.00% 0.00% top > 78372 kris 28 0 468K 280K RUN 0:00 0.00% 0.00% csh > > That's only *one* day's worth of surfing. It's 3.4-R, Netscape 4.08. I'm > beinging to think I need to install it on my dual-Celeron 433 with 320 MB > of RAM instead. Then it won't need to page. You are using the shared memory extension. Disable it; you can do this explicitly, or you can do this by forcing NetScape to not use the UNIX domain socket; if it comes in over the TCP/IP, it will not attempt to use the extension. The problem appears to be that bitmaps instanced in shared memory do not have their reference counts properly decremented when they are no longer referenced. I'm not sure whether this is an invalid resource tracking assumption made by the Netscape programmers, or a bug endemic to the use of the shared memory extension itself. If I had to guess, I would guess the former, since Netscape has historically had some bad assumption in their code with regard to things like threads reentrancy, or what thread will get scheduled following a return from an involuntary context switch (they seem to be doing better on this last one in their most recent release, FWIW). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 17:46:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f93.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 76DD237B56A for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 17:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 5708 invoked by uid 0); 3 May 2000 00:46:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20000503004630.5707.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.220.228.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 May 2000 17:46:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, misc@openbsd.org Subject: GET OUT THE VOTE! Please support Java port to *BSD Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:46:30 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi: Since last week when the message below and other messages began to circulate, approximately 230 votes have been cast for the java port to *BSD. This has raised our total count to 3182, an increase of 7.75%. Additionally, it is heartening to read the comments left by those who have voted which clearly demonstrate the depth of loyalty that *BSD users have for their platform of choice. Greg Lewis, who heads the FreeBSD-java porting effort has released the first "alpha" patchset for FreeBSD, the seventh in a series of patchsets representing months of work by many *BSD-ers. These volunteers have made a tremendous effort that is sure to enhance the *BSD plaform whether Sun comes around to an "official" port or not. The best way to say "Thanks" is to 1) help with testing, 2) VOTE! FYI: I am not a part of the java porting team, just a user who would like to use a native port and support the *BSD platform. John Last week, John Daniels wrote: >Hi: > >In November 1999 a request for enhancement (RFE) was opened at Sun's >Java Developer's Connection titled: Port jdk 1.2.x to FreeBSD (bug >id: 4288745). > >Members of the Java Developer's Connection help prioritize bug fixes >and RFE's by voting for the one's that they believe are needed most. >The FreeBSD port RFE currently is the #1 request by far with 2953 >votes vs. 819 for the #2 request. > >Even with this wide lead, Sun has no obligation to make an official >port of Java to FreeBSD or *BSD, or to be helpful to the *BSD efforts >to port Java (see www.freebsd.org/java). The larger the number of >votes for our RFE, however, the more difficult it is for Sun to >ignore. And the more that we can widen the lead between our #1 RFE >and #2, the more dramatic a statement we (collectively) make. > >An official Java JDK port to FreeBSD would likely mean that all BSD's >would benefit either by being able to use the FreeBSD port or by >being much closer to a port of their own. In fact, many who have >voted for the RFE have left comments supporting a port to *BSD, not >just FreeBSD. > >As you may know, Sun recently teamed with Inprise to create an >official port of Java to Linux (building on the work of Blackdown). >The *BSD's, with a large and loyal base of developers, also deserve >an official native version of Java. > >Please support the Java on *BSD effort by voting for the RFE at: >http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4288745.html If you >are not already a member of Sun's Java Developers Connection, >you will need to register before voting (membership is free). > >Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you. > >John > >PS Please forward this message to any person, list, or organization >that may want to support this effort. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 18:41:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A16737BDA1 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 18:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA08359; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:12:27 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:12:26 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bad PR for the Linux camp Message-ID: <20000503111226.B8284@freebie.lemis.com> References: <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 2 May 2000 at 13:51:53 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Some students here were preparing an event to celebrate the birthday of > their University. These students contacted Linus Torvalds and invited > him to be the main guest of the event. > > Some FreeBSD users were tempted to go. I had completely forgotten the > event, but the newspaper commented today that Linus never arrived. > > No details were known, but this kind of accidents don't open new space > for "Opensource". It's also a shame because bigger local Universities > will think twice before inviting him. Did he in fact accept the invitation? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 20:37: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C871D37BEDC for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 20:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from asme.org ([216.226.229.140]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAE82; Tue, 2 May 2000 22:35:45 -0400 Message-ID: <390F8E0A.700B734B@asme.org> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:25:14 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bad PR for the Linux camp References: <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> <20000503111226.B8284@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > ... > > Did he in fact accept the invitation? > I personally didn't hear him :-), however the newspaper reported two months ago that he had accepted, and the dates were moved a bit because he had another compromise near. Today the same section of the newspaper (http://www.eltiempo.com.co in the computer section JIC some spanish speaker is able to find it) wrote on a header (no article) that he hadn't arrived. Honestly, this is Colombia...many people will not come for security reasons. The worst part of all is that the organizers didn't know or didn't say anything. AFAIK, all the tickets were sold out. cheers, Pedro. > Greg > -- > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 21:30:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90F937B7C6 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 21:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13082; Tue, 2 May 2000 22:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:11:06 -0600 To: Terry Lambert , kris@hiwaay.net (Kris Kirby) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:27 PM 5/2/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: >The problem appears to be that bitmaps instanced in shared memory >do not have their reference counts properly decremented when they >are no longer referenced. The problem happens in Windows, too. Certain pages (the abcnews.go.com home page is one of them) cause recent versions of Netscape to wrap themselves around a tree. The browser grabs more memory, and more, and more.... Until the entire system is starved for RAM. I'd hoped that 6.0 would fix the problem, but it crashed immediately after install when I tried it -- maybe because I refused to give AOL reams of personal information about myself during the registration process. (Their unmitigated gall is showing in the new browser.) So, I can't tell. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 21:30:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A5337B7C6 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 21:30:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13077; Tue, 2 May 2000 22:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000502210359.0440c290@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:05:32 -0600 To: Greg Lehey , "Pedro F. Giffuni" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Bad PR for the Linux camp Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000503111226.B8284@freebie.lemis.com> References: <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> <390F23C8.B0C40C5@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:42 PM 5/2/2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Some FreeBSD users were tempted to go. I had completely forgotten the > > event, but the newspaper commented today that Linus never arrived. ... >Did he in fact accept the invitation? But of course. Linus is God. Linus is Everywhere. ;-) If they'd asked for the Giant Chuckie Mascot, they probably would have done better. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 2 22:17:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9992537B899 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 22:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from const. (root@allenc.verinet.com [199.45.180.181]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25016; Tue, 2 May 2000 23:17:43 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA80324; Tue, 2 May 2000 23:17:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:17:35 -0600 From: Allen Campbell To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Message-ID: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> References: <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, May 02, 2000 at 09:11:06PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 09:11:06PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:27 PM 5/2/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >The problem appears to be that bitmaps instanced in shared memory > >do not have their reference counts properly decremented when they > >are no longer referenced. > > The problem happens in Windows, too. Certain pages (the > abcnews.go.com home page is one of them) cause recent versions > of Netscape to wrap themselves around a tree. The browser grabs more > memory, and more, and more.... Until the entire system is starved > for RAM. > > I'd hoped that 6.0 would fix the problem, but it crashed immediately > after install when I tried it -- maybe because I refused to give > AOL reams of personal information about myself during the registration > process. (Their unmitigated gall is showing in the new browser.) > So, I can't tell. > > --Brett I've installed Netscape 6 beta 1 on winblows 95 and 98, Debian (2.2) and Caldera. What are you talking about? Perhaps you've nurtured some kludged up mess of a box that's unlikely to run notepad with any stability? I keep hearing this predictable blather about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. -- Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 11: 4:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C167D37B88C for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:04:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19887; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:04:11 -0600 To: Allen Campbell From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> References: <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:17 PM 5/2/2000, Allen Campbell wrote: >I've installed Netscape 6 beta 1 on winblows 95 and 98, Debian >(2.2) and Caldera. What are you talking about? Perhaps you've >nurtured some kludged up mess of a box that's unlikely to run >notepad with any stability? Nonsense. This was after a clean install of Windows 98 SE on a new 600 MHz Athlon. The machine runs everything else perfectly. >I keep hearing this predictable blather >about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a >system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience >it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. Not in my experience. Netscape's best developers are gone, and AOL cares little about it since it's not a money maker. Frankly, I'm surprised that they haven't just killed it off as a sacrifice to the Great God Microsoft. Or maybe that's what they're doing -- in an unusually slow and painful manner. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 11:20: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C370C37B63A for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 1214 invoked from network); 3 May 2000 18:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory8.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (144.16.71.128) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 3 May 2000 18:19:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 746 invoked by uid 211); 3 May 2000 18:19:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:49:50 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brett Glass Cc: Allen Campbell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Message-ID: <20000503234949.C727@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Brett Glass , Allen Campbell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> <20000502231735.A80066@const.> <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:04:11PM -0600 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.32 i486 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >I keep hearing this predictable blather > >about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a > >system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience > >it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. > > Not in my experience. Netscape's best developers are gone, and AOL > cares little about it since it's not a money maker. Frankly, I'm > surprised that they haven't just killed it off as a sacrifice to > the Great God Microsoft. Or maybe that's what they're doing -- > in an unusually slow and painful manner. I don't know about the windows version; it seems to have got some very good press reviews. The linux version certainly works pretty well, even on a freebsd box. R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 11:31:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B90A37BD44 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 11:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20218; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000503122631.048dc750@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:30:36 -0600 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: Allen Campbell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000503234949.C727@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> <4.3.1.2.20000502210629.04400e80@localhost> <20000502231735.A80066@const.> <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:19 PM 5/3/2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >I don't know about the windows version; it seems to have got some very >good press reviews. The reviews have been quite, shall we say, mixed. Many reviewers are complaining that it attempts to "turn the browser into AOL Lite," with a cluttered user interface that makes it difficult to navigate. It also attempts to collect inappropriate amounts of personal information from users. Myself, I was so annoyed by AOL's attempts to get me to give them my personal information (and transmit it back for inclusion in who knows how many databases) that I was ready to stop then and there and go to Opera for good. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 12:53: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C56237B9B2 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02134; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:52:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01317; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Subject: Re: GPS heads up In-Reply-To: <200005031744.KAA63550@apollo.backplane.com> References: <200005031744.KAA63550@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moved to -chat ] > Ok, this has nothing to do with FreeBSD, but I just had to post > something since nobody else has. > > By presidential order, on May 1 the error introduced into the GPS > system, called 'SA', was turned off. You've *GOT* to be kidding? Honest and truly? (Runs outside with his GPS). > This means that your GPS receivers are now around 5-10 times more > accurate then they were before May 1st. On my Garmin 12, I could get accuracy to 53' consistently before, now it's consistenly at 14'. If I averaged the errors, I got 43', now it only gets 1' better to 13'. Still, it's measurably better than before. > And I have to say, I am totally amazed! My handheld Garmin now > tells me that it is accurate to 14 feet, rather then 100 ft. It is > so accurate now that I can tell which side of the street I'm on! This is good and bad. Now my routes tell me I'm off since I'm on the other side of the road. *grin* > I am well and truely amazed. It's impressive to see the thing recognize > when I take a few steps in one direction or another using a bunch of > satellites sitting thousands of miles away in the sky. It's even more > impressive to see the government do something right for a change! No kidding. Thanks for the announcement Matt, I wouldn't have noticed this for a while had you not posted this, and then I would have wondered if my GPS was going bonkers. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:23:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.nc.rr.com (fe2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D698A37B533 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:23:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@nc.rr.com) Received: from SATURN98 ([24.25.6.109]) by mail2.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 3 May 2000 16:22:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:25:10 -0400 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) Educational Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <7684.000503@nc.rr.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up In-reply-To: <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> References: <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here is the 'Presidential Statement' regarding the issue: http://www.navcen.uscg.mil/gps/policynotes/SA.htm I don't know why they even continued to use SA after they released Differential GPS, which is good to 5 meters and less. It sort of got around the signal degredation. But, for the folks who didn't want to sink $500 into a DGPS unit, this news is great. It is sort of surprising since it is 6 years earlier than planned. Neill Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 3:52:55 PM, you wrote: NW> [ Moved to -chat ] >> Ok, this has nothing to do with FreeBSD, but I just had to post >> something since nobody else has. >> >> By presidential order, on May 1 the error introduced into the GPS >> system, called 'SA', was turned off. NW> You've *GOT* to be kidding? Honest and truly? (Runs outside with his NW> GPS). >> This means that your GPS receivers are now around 5-10 times more >> accurate then they were before May 1st. NW> On my Garmin 12, I could get accuracy to 53' consistently before, now NW> it's consistenly at 14'. If I averaged the errors, I got 43', now it NW> only gets 1' better to 13'. NW> Still, it's measurably better than before. >> And I have to say, I am totally amazed! My handheld Garmin now >> tells me that it is accurate to 14 feet, rather then 100 ft. It is >> so accurate now that I can tell which side of the street I'm on! NW> This is good and bad. Now my routes tell me I'm off since I'm on the NW> other side of the road. *grin* >> I am well and truely amazed. It's impressive to see the thing recognize >> when I take a few steps in one direction or another using a bunch of >> satellites sitting thousands of miles away in the sky. It's even more >> impressive to see the government do something right for a change! NW> No kidding. Thanks for the announcement Matt, I wouldn't have noticed NW> this for a while had you not posted this, and then I would have wondered NW> if my GPS was going bonkers. :) NW> Nate NW> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org NW> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:34: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370AF37BE24 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA64684; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:34:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005032034.NAA64684@apollo.backplane.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: Subject: Re: GPS heads up References: <200005031744.KAA63550@apollo.backplane.com> <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org :> By presidential order, on May 1 the error introduced into the GPS :> system, called 'SA', was turned off. : :You've *GOT* to be kidding? Honest and truly? (Runs outside with his :GPS). : :> This means that your GPS receivers are now around 5-10 times more :> accurate then they were before May 1st. : :On my Garmin 12, I could get accuracy to 53' consistently before, now :it's consistenly at 14'. If I averaged the errors, I got 43', now it :only gets 1' better to 13'. : :Still, it's measurably better than before. More then that... Before the tracks on my Garmin for any given road were all over the map (up to half a mile off). Now they overlap almost perfectly. Before the 53 feet the Garmin reported best case was not actually correct... the tracks were a hellofalot more then 53 feet off from each other. Now, the 14 feet the Garmin reports is real. I am in the process of getting information from NextBus (tracking busses in SF) -- Bryce tells me that the tracks have tightened up considerably verses before. In fact, I did a bunch of work for NextBus a year or two ago and a big portion of it was writing heuristics to get around the SA errors to figure out what the bus was actually doing. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:36:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9572837B8FD for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Received: from owp.csus.edu (mail.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.247]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02444; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <391046D3.10CCCE37@owp.csus.edu> Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:33:40 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: chat@freebsd.davis.ca.us Subject: Davis/Sacramento FreeBSD Users Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you are in the greater Davis/Sacramento (California) area and have an interest in FreeBSD, consider your self invited to the Davis/Sacramento FreeBSD Users Group. I know this is short notice, this month's meeting is tonite, May 3rd, 7pm at Calweb Internet Services. For details on how to get there and how to subscribe to the groups mailing list, check out the web site at : http://www.freebsd.davis.ca.us/ There is no specific topic for this meeting, so bring some ideas, you notebook and your thoughts or questions about FreeBSD. -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:36:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B07637B9C9; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:36:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22708; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:36:31 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Alexander Langer Cc: David Holloway , Nate Williams , Matthew Dillon , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GPS heads up Message-ID: <20000503133631.B16023@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <20000503221528.A37472@cichlids.cichlids.com> <200005032019.NAA19196@papermill.wrs.com> <20000503222555.A37775@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <20000503222555.A37775@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 10:25:55PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Redirected to -chat where it belongs.] On Wed, May 03, 2000 at 10:25:55PM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake David Holloway (davidhol@windriver.com): > > > You are associating one persons accuracy numbers with > > someone elses experiments. > > Ah. So what are the prof's accuracy numbers? I don't actually know. In any case, mm accuracy catches enough stuff to be intresting. The San Andreas fault moves about an inch a year IIRC. You can see a little bit about the research at: http://www.physics.hmc.edu/research/geo/gps_project.html -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:52: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3D237B63E for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:52:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02651; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:52:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01634; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005032052.OAA01634@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Neill Robins Cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up In-Reply-To: <7684.000503@nc.rr.com> References: <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> <7684.000503@nc.rr.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't know why they even continued to use SA after they released > Differential GPS, which is good to 5 meters and less. It sort of got > around the signal degredation. But, for the folks who didn't want to > sink $500 into a DGPS unit, this news is great. It is sort of > surprising since it is 6 years earlier than planned. Because in order to use DGPS, you must be near a DGPS transmitter, which for most of the US (anywhere but the two coasts) is not a feasible option. Nate > > Neill > > > Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 3:52:55 PM, you wrote: > > NW> [ Moved to -chat ] > > >> Ok, this has nothing to do with FreeBSD, but I just had to post > >> something since nobody else has. > >> > >> By presidential order, on May 1 the error introduced into the GPS > >> system, called 'SA', was turned off. > > NW> You've *GOT* to be kidding? Honest and truly? (Runs outside with his > NW> GPS). > > >> This means that your GPS receivers are now around 5-10 times more > >> accurate then they were before May 1st. > > NW> On my Garmin 12, I could get accuracy to 53' consistently before, now > NW> it's consistenly at 14'. If I averaged the errors, I got 43', now it > NW> only gets 1' better to 13'. > > NW> Still, it's measurably better than before. > > >> And I have to say, I am totally amazed! My handheld Garmin now > >> tells me that it is accurate to 14 feet, rather then 100 ft. It is > >> so accurate now that I can tell which side of the street I'm on! > > NW> This is good and bad. Now my routes tell me I'm off since I'm on the > NW> other side of the road. *grin* > > >> I am well and truely amazed. It's impressive to see the thing recognize > >> when I take a few steps in one direction or another using a bunch of > >> satellites sitting thousands of miles away in the sky. It's even more > >> impressive to see the government do something right for a change! > > NW> No kidding. Thanks for the announcement Matt, I wouldn't have noticed > NW> this for a while had you not posted this, and then I would have wondered > NW> if my GPS was going bonkers. :) > > > > NW> Nate > > > NW> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > NW> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 13:57:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from uswgco34.uswest.com (uswgco34.uswest.com [199.168.32.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06CF637B551 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:57:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@kc0dxw.uswc.uswest.com) Received: from egate-ut3.uswc.uswest.com (egate-ut3.uswc.uswest.com [148.157.122.201]) by uswgco34.uswest.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e43Kv7c14444 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netmail3.uswc.uswest.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by egate-ut3.uswc.uswest.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15165 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kc0dxw.uswc.uswest.com ([151.116.151.204]) by netmail3.uswc.uswest.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA613A for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:57:00 -0600 Received: by kc0dxw.uswc.uswest.com (Postfix, from userid 1007) id E2E37456; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:56:59 -0600 From: Matt Meola To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up Message-ID: <20000503145659.E52203@kc0dxw.uswc.uswest.com> References: <200005031952.NAA01317@nomad.yogotech.com> <7684.000503@nc.rr.com> <200005032052.OAA01634@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005032052.OAA01634@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 02:52:01PM -0600 X-URL: http://www.qsl.net/kc0dxw Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, May 03, 2000 at 02:52:01PM -0600, Nate Williams wrote: > > I don't know why they even continued to use SA after they released > > Differential GPS, which is good to 5 meters and less. It sort of got > > around the signal degredation. But, for the folks who didn't want to > > sink $500 into a DGPS unit, this news is great. It is sort of > > surprising since it is 6 years earlier than planned. > > Because in order to use DGPS, you must be near a DGPS transmitter, which > for most of the US (anywhere but the two coasts) is not a feasible > option. http://www.tapr.org/ Tucson Amateur packet Radio group. They've got a kit DGPS transceiver which you can place in a known location to effect DGPS; set it up at your house, and anyone near enough can get enhanced GPS positioning. Not that it's all that useful, now... -- Matt Meola KC0DXW http://www.qsl.net/kc0dxw Bailey, CO ARES D6 AEC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 14: 5: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.nc.rr.com (fe2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5962A37BE27 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:05:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@nc.rr.com) Received: from SATURN98 ([24.25.6.109]) by mail2.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 3 May 2000 17:04:58 -0400 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:07:52 -0400 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) Educational Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <17713.000503@nc.rr.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up In-reply-To: <200005032052.OAA01634@nomad.yogotech.com> References: <200005032052.OAA01634@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 4:52:01 PM, you wrote: >> I don't know why they even continued to use SA after they released >> Differential GPS, which is good to 5 meters and less. It sort of got >> around the signal degredation. But, for the folks who didn't want to >> sink $500 into a DGPS unit, this news is great. It is sort of >> surprising since it is 6 years earlier than planned. NW> Because in order to use DGPS, you must be near a DGPS transmitter, which NW> for most of the US (anywhere but the two coasts) is not a feasible NW> option. Granted, but if you are spending the money on DGPS you might be likely to afford to subscribe to commercial versions in those areas other than the coasts (which are provided free from the USCG, of course). Price depends on the accuracy you want to achieve. All this is from a Garmin and Lowrance electronics reps. Neill NW> Nate >> >> Neill >> >> >> Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 3:52:55 PM, you wrote: >> >> NW> [ Moved to -chat ] >> >> >> Ok, this has nothing to do with FreeBSD, but I just had to post >> >> something since nobody else has. >> >> >> >> By presidential order, on May 1 the error introduced into the GPS >> >> system, called 'SA', was turned off. >> >> NW> You've *GOT* to be kidding? Honest and truly? (Runs outside with his >> NW> GPS). >> >> >> This means that your GPS receivers are now around 5-10 times more >> >> accurate then they were before May 1st. >> >> NW> On my Garmin 12, I could get accuracy to 53' consistently before, now >> NW> it's consistenly at 14'. If I averaged the errors, I got 43', now it >> NW> only gets 1' better to 13'. >> >> NW> Still, it's measurably better than before. >> >> >> And I have to say, I am totally amazed! My handheld Garmin now >> >> tells me that it is accurate to 14 feet, rather then 100 ft. It is >> >> so accurate now that I can tell which side of the street I'm on! >> >> NW> This is good and bad. Now my routes tell me I'm off since I'm on the >> NW> other side of the road. *grin* >> >> >> I am well and truely amazed. It's impressive to see the thing recognize >> >> when I take a few steps in one direction or another using a bunch of >> >> satellites sitting thousands of miles away in the sky. It's even more >> >> impressive to see the government do something right for a change! >> >> NW> No kidding. Thanks for the announcement Matt, I wouldn't have noticed >> NW> this for a while had you not posted this, and then I would have wondered >> NW> if my GPS was going bonkers. :) >> >> >> >> NW> Nate >> >> >> NW> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> NW> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 15: 4:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.102.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272F337BE5F for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 15:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA33647; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:59:30 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up Message-ID: <20000503145930.B33563@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20000503200006.A35116@cichlids.cichlids.com> <2386.957377415@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <2386.957377415@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 08:10:15PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] On Wed, May 03, 2000 at 08:10:15PM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Not quite, the military system is only better because it has two > frequencies, and that doesn't improve things *that* much. So, I will apply my meager knowledge of pulsar observations to guess that the phase difference between the two frequencies gives you the integral of the electron number density along the path, and hence allows you to measure the delay introduced by the ionosphere, and subtract it off? (I have read elsewhere that the ionospheric fluctuations are the largest source of error, aside from SA.) -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 16:17:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [209.133.28.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A2937B68D for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from whenever ([209.133.29.2]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:17:18 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Matthew Hunt" Cc: Subject: RE: GPS heads up Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:17:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bfb555$b98ff450$021d85d1@youwant.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <20000503145930.B33563@wopr.caltech.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So, I will apply my meager knowledge of pulsar observations to > guess that the phase difference between the two frequencies gives > you the integral of the electron number density along the path, > and hence allows you to measure the delay introduced by the > ionosphere, and subtract it off? (I have read elsewhere that > the ionospheric fluctuations are the largest source of error, > aside from SA.) I was under the impression that after SA (which is now a thing of the past), the largest single source of error was that the satellites weren't precisely where they said they were. I remember reading about work to measure the position of the satellites to accuracies of fractions of a meter to eliminate this source of error. DS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 18: 9:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD9537BA7B for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:09:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10836; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAxcaOgv; Wed May 3 18:09:18 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02106; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:09:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200005040109.SAA02106@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! To: kris@hiwaay.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:09:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kirby" at May 03, 2000 12:20:18 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > You are using the shared memory extension. > > > > Disable it; you can do this explicitly, or you can do this by > > forcing NetScape to not use the UNIX domain socket; if it comes > > in over the TCP/IP, it will not attempt to use the extension. > > By this do you mean loading the binary over the network (a la NIS/NFS) or > by communication with X? This particular instance was run over the > network, saturating a 10MBit line for about two hours. Communication with X. If it can use the shared memory extension at all, it will bloat. The easiest place to sse this is to go to a page that has reloading banner ads, and let it just sit there and run your X server out of memory. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 18:16: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF59E37B9D1 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09442; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:15:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAATca4fs; Wed May 3 18:15:31 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02317; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:15:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200005040115.SAA02317@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:15:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: allenc@verinet.com (Allen Campbell), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at May 03, 2000 12:04:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >I've installed Netscape 6 beta 1 on winblows 95 and 98, Debian > >(2.2) and Caldera. What are you talking about? Perhaps you've > >nurtured some kludged up mess of a box that's unlikely to run > >notepad with any stability? > > Nonsense. This was after a clean install of Windows 98 SE on > a new 600 MHz Athlon. The machine runs everything else perfectly. There's no such thing as a "clean" install of Windows 98. I've become convinced that Windows 98 was intentionally destabilized in order to promote sales of Windows 2000; you are more likely to put up with the performance hit from the 98 to 2000 switch if it makes your system more stable. A large corporation who shall remain nameless and therefore blameless has a policy of deploying only Windows 95 on new systems, for stability reasons. FWIW, I have seen Netscape crash a number of times. If you run IE while running Netscape, you will almost inevitably get a "this program has performed an illegal operation error", wiithe the "Details>>" button showing that the error occured "VCRTL42.DLL" (the Visual C++ run time library) or "KERNEL32.DLL" (the Windows kernel). > >I keep hearing this predictable blather > >about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a > >system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience > >it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. > > Not in my experience. Netscape's best developers are gone, and AOL > cares little about it since it's not a money maker. Frankly, I'm > surprised that they haven't just killed it off as a sacrifice to > the Great God Microsoft. Or maybe that's what they're doing -- > in an unusually slow and painful manner. I doubt it. It's probably just programmer availability; working for AOL is just not as sexy as working for Netscape was. A lot of big companies are in the same boat, with money to burn for people but no people lining up to take it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 18:44: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9735937BF20 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17999 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:21:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18047; Wed, 3 May 2000 19:31:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:31:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Kris Kirby To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! In-Reply-To: <200005040109.SAA02106@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Communication with X. If it can use the shared memory extension > at all, it will bloat. > > The easiest place to sse this is to go to a page that has reloading > banner ads, and let it just sit there and run your X server out > of memory. Now that's funny. The machine it was displaying on had 320MB of RAM. Next time I do something like this, I'll remember to see what my X server is doing. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 18:44:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031DD37BF2D for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 18:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18002 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:21:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA85751; Wed, 3 May 2000 00:20:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:20:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Kris Kirby To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! In-Reply-To: <200005022127.OAA00936@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You are using the shared memory extension. > > Disable it; you can do this explicitly, or you can do this by > forcing NetScape to not use the UNIX domain socket; if it comes > in over the TCP/IP, it will not attempt to use the extension. By this do you mean loading the binary over the network (a la NIS/NFS) or by communication with X? This particular instance was run over the network, saturating a 10MBit line for about two hours. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 19:20:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF4B37BF41 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 19:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25429; Wed, 3 May 2000 20:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000503201615.048acd80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:20:07 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: allenc@verinet.com (Allen Campbell), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200005040115.SAA02317@usr01.primenet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:15 PM 5/3/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: >There's no such thing as a "clean" install of Windows 98. > >I've become convinced that Windows 98 was intentionally >destabilized in order to promote sales of Windows 2000; you >are more likely to put up with the performance hit from the >98 to 2000 switch if it makes your system more stable. But Windows 2000 is not the next step for consumers; only for businesses. Consumers get Windows 98 ME. >A large corporation who shall remain nameless and therefore >blameless has a policy of deploying only Windows 95 on new >systems, for stability reasons. If they're conquered all of the bugs they care about, why not? I understand that Yahoo stays several versions behind the curve on FreeBSD, too. >FWIW, I have seen Netscape crash a number of times. If you >run IE while running Netscape, you will almost inevitably >get a "this program has performed an illegal operation error", >wiithe the "Details>>" button showing that the error occured >"VCRTL42.DLL" (the Visual C++ run time library) or "KERNEL32.DLL" >(the Windows kernel). Most likely a reentrancy problem. > > Not in my experience. Netscape's best developers are gone, and AOL > > cares little about it since it's not a money maker. Frankly, I'm > > surprised that they haven't just killed it off as a sacrifice to > > the Great God Microsoft. Or maybe that's what they're doing -- > > in an unusually slow and painful manner. > >I doubt it. It's probably just programmer availability; working >for AOL is just not as sexy as working for Netscape was. Sexy? It's the ultimate turnoff. "Hey, come work for a company that exploits clueless newbies!" >A lot >of big companies are in the same boat, with money to burn for >people but no people lining up to take it. Maybe that's because they realize that they have a chance of making it big with a startup, but no chance of moving up past the entrenched management in an established company to a high-paying position. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 23:27: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8525037BEBA for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 23:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24270; Wed, 3 May 2000 23:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <3911182C.68E325D@gorean.org> Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:26:52 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0422 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000503201615.048acd80@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > I understand that Yahoo stays several versions behind the > curve on FreeBSD, too. That's pure FUD, and since you don't _really_ know the facts, you shouldn't be repeating it. For example, I have publicly discussed on several freebsd mailing list that in my little corner of Yahoo! we have been using 4.0-Current since last august for some machines that needed the (at the time) ongoing NFS fixes. I also have some 3.4-Stable machines. I can't discuss publicly what our company policies are, but rest assured they don't include "staying behind the curve" in anything. :) Doug ObDisclaimer, I don't speak for the company, just for myself, yadda yadda. -- Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. -- W. Somerset Maugham To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 3 23:53:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678C037B966 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 23:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: by super-g.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5AB95BF01; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 443FDBEED; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 02:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Allen Campbell Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! In-Reply-To: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 2 May 2000, Allen Campbell wrote: > I've installed Netscape 6 beta 1 on winblows 95 and 98, Debian > (2.2) and Caldera. What are you talking about? Perhaps you've > nurtured some kludged up mess of a box that's unlikely to run > notepad with any stability? I keep hearing this predictable blather > about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a > system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience > it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. Here's a URL that will blow up 6 with some reliability: http://www.word.com/ Lots of DHTML and crap. IE survives, as does Netscape 4.x, but Mozilla, er, NS 6 will bomb, as does IE5 for the mac... Personally, my favorite browser of the moment is IE5 for the Macintosh. Nice features, doesn't bomb too often, looks pretty. Charles > -- > Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the > allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 0:37:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A47B837BEBB for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 00:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 2754 invoked by uid 211); 4 May 2000 07:37:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:07:06 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: spork Cc: Allen Campbell , Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Message-ID: <20000504130706.B2663@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from spork@super-g.com on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 02:53:36AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org spork said on May 4, 2000 at 02:53:36: > On Tue, 2 May 2000, Allen Campbell wrote: > > > I've installed Netscape 6 beta 1 on winblows 95 and 98, Debian > > (2.2) and Caldera. What are you talking about? Perhaps you've > > nurtured some kludged up mess of a box that's unlikely to run > > notepad with any stability? I keep hearing this predictable blather > > about Netscape 6 and wondering just how cruel I have to be to a > > system to reproduce these `crashes', but I have yet to experience > > it. It's certainly not perfect but it rivals 4.x for stability. > > Here's a URL that will blow up 6 with some reliability: > > http://www.word.com/ > > Lots of DHTML and crap. IE survives, as does Netscape 4.x, but Mozilla, > er, NS 6 will bomb, as does IE5 for the mac... I've removed my copy of NS 6, but Mozilla M15 -- linux build, on FreeBSD -- seems to work. A bit slow (ok, very slow) but hasn't crashed yet. What a ghastly page, though. If it crashes on windows, well - doesn't everything? R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 0:40:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E8F737B522 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 00:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 2768 invoked by uid 211); 4 May 2000 07:40:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:10:06 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: spork Cc: Allen Campbell , Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Konqueror (was Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem!) Message-ID: <20000504131006.C2663@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from spork@super-g.com on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 02:53:36AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org KDE's Konqueror has a new web page, http://www.konqueror.org Is anyone running konqueror / KDE2 on a FreeBSD machine? How friendly is it to FreeBSD right now? R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 0:42: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D4B737C00B for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 00:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21101; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:19:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06074; Thu, 4 May 2000 01:41:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:41:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Kris Kirby To: Matt Meola Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPS heads up In-Reply-To: <20000503145659.E52203@kc0dxw.uswc.uswest.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Tucson Amateur packet Radio group. They've got a kit DGPS transceiver > which you can place in a known location to effect DGPS; set it up at your > house, and anyone near enough can get enhanced GPS positioning. > > Not that it's all that useful, now... Or do like some strange ham and actually put a GPS antenna on a tripod over a USGS marker and correct his house from there. Dad loves this. He's had to throw out over a month's worth of monitoring work because the accuracy went up. Five GPSes and counting... Two DGPS recievers :-) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 6:31: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9424037BF6A for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from daemon@mips.inka.de) Received: from bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 12nLiX-0002Dy-02; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:31:01 +0200 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA67017 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:26:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? Date: 4 May 2000 15:26:27 +0200 Message-ID: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 9:59:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1250D37C0F8 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 09:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e44HU0n25567; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:30:00 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Alexander Langer Cc: Matthew Dillon , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Message-ID: <20000504103000.T13668@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200005041642.JAA71580@apollo.backplane.com> <20000504185155.A21289@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000504185155.A21289@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 06:51:55PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Alexander Langer [000504 10:24] wrote: > Thus spake Matthew Dillon (dillon@apollo.backplane.com): > > > The 'virus' is the warning message itself, silly! > > Nope, ILOVEYOU is a real virus. > > It's quite funny. Here in Germany even the radio reported about it, it > seems to have crashed MANY companies and governmental institutions. Now I'm jealous, when is mutt going to be able to automatically launch perl scripts sent to users? I feel as if I'm missing out. I can see all sorts of nifty things coming out of it, little animated greeting cards, e-commerce solutions, totally dynamic email! I think I'll send a request for enhancement to the developers asap. :) *hides* -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 10: 8:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 91DD337B6F8 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 4551 invoked by uid 211); 4 May 2000 17:07:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:37:39 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Alexander Langer , Matthew Dillon , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Message-ID: <20000504223739.A4541@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <200005041642.JAA71580@apollo.backplane.com> <20000504185155.A21289@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000504103000.T13668@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000504103000.T13668@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 10:30:00AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein said on May 4, 2000 at 10:30:00: > * Alexander Langer [000504 10:24] wrote: > > Thus spake Matthew Dillon (dillon@apollo.backplane.com): > > > > > The 'virus' is the warning message itself, silly! > > > > Nope, ILOVEYOU is a real virus. > > > > It's quite funny. Here in Germany even the radio reported about it, it > > seems to have crashed MANY companies and governmental institutions. > > Now I'm jealous, when is mutt going to be able to automatically > launch perl scripts sent to users? I feel as if I'm missing out. Wasn't there something about an appropriate mailcap entry letting you execute arbitrary code? It became known as a Pine bug but mutt was affected, probably others too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 11:37: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cornflake.nickelkid.com (cornflake.nickelkid.com [216.116.135.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05C637B748 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by cornflake.nickelkid.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02640; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? In-Reply-To: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 4 May 2000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? Like the word "mock," I b'lieve. Cheers, Mick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 11:56:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CA037C218 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e44JRKW29261; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:27:20 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jeremiah Gowdy Cc: Taavi Talvik , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Message-ID: <20000504122720.U13668@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <002b01bfb5f7$568d17a0$5a5d0418@vista1.sdca.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <002b01bfb5f7$568d17a0$5a5d0418@vista1.sdca.home.com>; from jgowdy@home.com on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 11:34:08AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org move to -chat because this is _completely off topic_ for -hackers * Jeremiah Gowdy [000504 12:06] wrote: > > Yes, it was real virus and quite nasty one. Which remainds us, > > that quite soon we cannot live without freebsd naitive virus > > scanning engine. Such things don't spread so easily, when ISPs > > are able to scan e-mail and other content they serve. > > lol. The only way you could really have a virus in freebsd is if it was > launched or infected as root. Otherwise the virus would be VERY limited. > If you are talking about scanning incoming email for viruses/scripts that > were destined for Windows computers, ok, I'd say that's not a bad idea. That's completely untrue, a well written UNIX virus would trojan as many places as it could to trip up a sysadmin, I'm sure there are still problems along the line of vi sourcing arbitratry .exrc files. It could also apply heuristics at grepping the user's mail and personal files to search out possible passwords transmitted that way. There's also the unfortunate effect of having the thing worm its way into other machines that the user has accounts on, eventually gaining root somehow. Simply enough if a user was a priveledged user and su'd to root, there goes the machine. Depending on the level of trust amongst machines you could pretty easily whip up another worm, the hard part is fighting the legal battle when you get caught. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 12:20: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frolkin.demon.co.uk (frolkin.demon.co.uk [194.222.100.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D5937B79F for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sasha@frolkin.demon.co.uk) Received: from sasha by frolkin.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12nR8G-0000GA-00; Thu, 04 May 2000 20:17:56 +0100 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:17:55 +0100 From: Alexander Frolkin To: Jasper O'Malley Cc: Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? Message-ID: <20000504201755.A581@gamma> Reply-To: Alexander Frolkin References: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Jasper O'Malley on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 02:36:54PM -0400 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.14 X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 6C84 3EB2 550E E581 62FA BB0C D510 B042 FD5C E7A7 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 02:36:54PM -0400, Jasper O'Malley wrote: > On 4 May 2000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > > So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? > > Like the word "mock," I b'lieve. I always thought it was "mack". Alexander > Cheers, > Mick > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 12:30:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF9137C1AE for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05759; Thu, 4 May 2000 13:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000504132658.0413ebe0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:29:45 -0600 To: Alfred Perlstein , Jeremiah Gowdy From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Cc: Taavi Talvik , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000504122720.U13668@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <002b01bfb5f7$568d17a0$5a5d0418@vista1.sdca.home.com> <002b01bfb5f7$568d17a0$5a5d0418@vista1.sdca.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The whole problem with the "Barney Trojan" (as we're calling it here) is that it doesn't require any such sophisticated schemes. It just requires clueless newbies to be running Outhouse... er, I mean Outlook. And that's it. You're toast. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 12:33:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3E137C172 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05809; Thu, 4 May 2000 13:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000504133011.04139910@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:33:31 -0600 To: Doug Barton From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3911182C.68E325D@gorean.org> References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000503201615.048acd80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:26 AM 5/4/2000, Doug Barton wrote: >Brett Glass wrote: > > > I understand that Yahoo stays several versions behind the > > curve on FreeBSD, too. > > That's pure FUD, and since you don't _really_ know the facts, you >shouldn't be repeating it. For example, I have publicly discussed on >several freebsd mailing list that in my little corner of Yahoo! we have >been using 4.0-Current since last august for some machines that needed >the (at the time) ongoing NFS fixes. I also have some 3.4-Stable >machines. In what corner of Yahoo do you work? I seem to recall a talk at which it was explicitly stated that Yahoo -- like most companies that rely on FreeBSD for mission- critical machines -- waited until each version had been shaken out before moving to it on production machines. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 12:40:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0237337C1C2 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05905; Thu, 4 May 2000 13:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000504133516.0413e3b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:36:06 -0600 To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? In-Reply-To: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's the "Mock" kernel. (Probably a pun on Lewis Carroll's "Mock Turtle.") At 07:26 AM 5/4/2000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? > >-- >Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 14:39:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B79637B60E for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:39:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from asme.org ([200.41.111.86]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3B42; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3911E879.3C5406CE@asme.org> Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:15:37 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000503201615.048acd80@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000504133011.04139910@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > ... > > In what corner of Yahoo do you work? I seem to recall a talk at which it > was explicitly stated that Yahoo -- like most companies that rely on > FreeBSD for mission- critical machines -- waited until each version had > been shaken out before moving to it on production machines. > That they did it before doesn't mean it's a general policy. They did keep the 2.2.x branch on many boxes but it seems like the like more 4.x now. The 3.x branch suffered the change to ELF format, the fact that we lost John Dyson, and it was also the first release of SMP and Alpha support. The stability and performance enhancements that came afterwards (thanks in part by Matt Dillon) have made 4.0 much more interesting. It's curious..I was one of the, probably many, subscribed that wrote email to WC saying that I would prefer to receive 4.0 instead of 3.5. On the newsgroups you will find some people complained when this decision was taken. I think this effect may repeat with 5.0 as well, since the BSDI codebase is already very well tested in the commercial world. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 14:42:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C4137B60E for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07432; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000504154015.041393e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 15:42:10 -0600 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3911E879.3C5406CE@asme.org> References: <4.3.1.2.20000503120120.0410c100@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000503201615.048acd80@localhost> <4.3.1.2.20000504133011.04139910@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:15 PM 5/4/2000, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >It's curious..I was one of the, probably many, subscribed that wrote >email to WC saying that I would prefer to receive 4.0 instead of 3.5. On >the newsgroups you will find some people complained when this decision >was taken. We will install 3.x on production machines until 4.2 is out, as per our usual policy. We'll experiment with earlier 4.x releases on machines that aren't critical servers. Even if Matt's changes are absolutely superb, we've got to be conservative. --Brett "You're not just e-mailing her, you're e-mailing anyone she's ever e-mailed." -- Dayton Daily News Cartoonist Mike Peters on the "Melissa virus" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 14:50:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rock.ghis.net (rock.ghis.net [209.222.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA2637C218 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@blackdawn.com) Received: from argon.blackdawn.com (04-103.dial.008.popsite.net [209.69.197.103]) by rock.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA92207; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argon.blackdawn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1E2D21A13; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:49:05 -0400 From: Will Andrews To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: spork , Allen Campbell , Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Konqueror (was Re: Naw, Netscape doesn't have a memory problem!) Message-ID: <20000504174905.A1642@argon.blackdawn.com> References: <20000502231735.A80066@const.> <20000504131006.C2663@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000504131006.C2663@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 01:10:06PM +0530 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 01:10:06PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > KDE's Konqueror has a new web page, http://www.konqueror.org > > Is anyone running konqueror / KDE2 on a FreeBSD machine? How friendly > is it to FreeBSD right now? I don't know yet, but I'm going to find out when I restart work on making ports for KDE2. -- Will Andrews GCS/E/S @d- s+:+>+:- a--->+++ C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ !N !o ?K w--- ?O M+ V-- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+>+++ t++ 5 X++ R+ tv+ b++>++++ DI+++ D+ G++>+++ e->++++ h! r-->+++ y? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 15:57:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEBD37B57B for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 15:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keichii@iteration.net) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E49105B95; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:57:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:57:30 -0500 From: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? Message-ID: <20000504175730.A61311@peorth.iteration.net> References: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> <4.3.1.2.20000504133516.0413e3b0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000504133516.0413e3b0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 01:36:06PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 01:36:06PM -0600, Brett Glass scribbled: | It's the "Mock" kernel. (Probably a pun on Lewis Carroll's "Mock Turtle.") "Sound" "Speed" "Measurement" | At 07:26 AM 5/4/2000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: | >So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net - Yes, this is a conspiracy. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 16:12:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580BF37B6D0 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08525; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000504171141.0413eae0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 17:12:19 -0600 To: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? In-Reply-To: <20000504175730.A61311@peorth.iteration.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20000504133516.0413e3b0@localhost> <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> <4.3.1.2.20000504133516.0413e3b0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:57 PM 5/4/2000, Michael Chin-Yuan Wu wrote: >On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 01:36:06PM -0600, Brett Glass scribbled: >| It's the "Mock" kernel. (Probably a pun on Lewis Carroll's "Mock Turtle.") > >"Sound" "Speed" "Measurement" That too, of course. You can't have pun without the other. --Brett "You're not just e-mailing her, you're e-mailing anyone she's ever e-mailed." -- Dayton Daily News Cartoonist Mike Peters on the "Melissa virus" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 16:36:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F4337BCF4 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA32903; Fri, 5 May 2000 09:07:08 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:07:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Mach" (as in Mach kernel)? Message-ID: <20000505090708.C32650@freebie.lemis.com> References: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <8ertq3$21dr$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 4 May 2000 at 15:26:27 +0200, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > So Darwin has a Mach kernel... How do you pronounce "Mach"? I always pronounce it "mach". But I think I'm in the minority. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 16:42:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D1337BCA1; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15286; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09993; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005042341.RAA09993@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hsu@FreeBSD.org (Jeffrey Hsu), chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: request for position statement In-Reply-To: <29151.957483569@localhost> References: <20000504180245.CEDDE37C1E0@hub.freebsd.org> <29151.957483569@localhost> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moved to -chat ] > > 3. How do you feel about public hearings? > > I don't care for "hearings" much at all. I'm hoping we're a long > ways off from needing a congress. Ahh, but public 'fairings' are acceptable, no matter how many folks we have around. We may not get as many as we'd like, but we'll take all we can get. :) :) :) :) :) Nate ps. Apologies to those of you who might not get the joke. It's a *really* old joke that Jordan made ~6-7 years ago. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 17: 7:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39EF37B56C for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 17:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.224]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22659; Fri, 5 May 2000 01:06:03 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812D5AC2D; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:34:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22015; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:30:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:30:06 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matthew Dillon , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Message-ID: <20000504193006.B21988@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mail-Followup-To: Alfred Perlstein , Matthew Dillon , Lloyd Rennie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200005041642.JAA71580@apollo.backplane.com> <20000504185155.A21289@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000504103000.T13668@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000504103000.T13668@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 10:30:00AM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Alfred Perlstein (bright@wintelcom.net): > > It's quite funny. Here in Germany even the radio reported about it, it > > seems to have crashed MANY companies and governmental institutions. > Now I'm jealous, when is mutt going to be able to automatically > launch perl scripts sent to users? I feel as if I'm missing out. *rotfl* I could implement it, but you must promise me, that you'll use it (auto-open-attachment) :) Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 4 19: 7:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F2637B5E3 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05002 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:06:52 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:06:51 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hard Disk Data Recovery Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data Recovery company? Anyone have any recommendations for good ones that are economical or is Ontrack the only choice? Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 1:15:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A8537B74B for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 01:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA99212; Fri, 5 May 2000 10:15:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: Vincent Poy Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 May 2000 10:15:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: Vincent Poy's message of "Thu, 4 May 2000 16:06:51 -1000 (HST)" Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vincent Poy writes: > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data > Recovery company? No. We have backups. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 2:27:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5FD37BB1F for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 02:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA12381 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 May 2000 02:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 02:27:26 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: May San Francisco BAFUG meeting Message-ID: <20000505022726.A12359@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -- San Francisco BAFUG -- (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) May 2000 Meeting The San Francisco chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding its monthly meeting on Thursday, May 11th. This month's meeting will be held at Whistle's corp. office in Foster City. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda : ==> Our main event is a discussion about the pros and cons of FreeBSD and Linux. Come and join Josef Grosch (FreeBSD), Nicole Harrington (FreeBSD) and Rick Moen (Linux) for a guided tour exploring the different pros and cons of FreeBSD and Linux. Come and defend your favorite OS. Tell us what you Love / Hate about FreeBSD or Linux. Our goal is to develop a large table of comparative data that will then be placed on the BAFUG website. Why? We want a large and accurate table of comparison between FreeBSD and Linux to help those trying to decided on which OS is right for them and to help defend their choices to their employers. Also it can be used as a nice yard stick to show were FreeBSD might need improvement. We also want to provide weights of importance to various users. I.E. X86 performance means nothing to those running servers. Also, we would like to include the names of those attending this meeting with the table to help improve its voracity. ==> Josef Grosch and Nicole Harrington will talk about BAFUG's plans for the Install-A-Thon at the Cow Palace in Daly City on June 10th. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location : This months meeting will be held at Whistle Communications. Whistle is located at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City. There is plenty parking in their lot. Time : The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions : By CalTrain : Exit at the downtown San Mateo station, and walk several miles east on Third Avenue to the Marsh Drive intersection. Alternatively, exit at the Bay Meadows station and take the SanTrans Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus to the Bridgepoint Shopping Center stop and walk 1/4 mile north on Mariner's Island Blvd. to Third Avenue, turning right one block to Marsh Drive. By SamTrans : The Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus line's Bridgepoint Shopping Center terminus is a few blocks from Whistle Communications. By Car : From the South Bay and Peninsula : Take 101 North towards San Francisco, From US-101 northbound, take CA-92 eastbound a mile to the Foster City Blvd., turning left (east) at the end of the ramp onto Metro Center Blvd. Go about a block and turn left (north-east) onto Foster City Blvd. Go about five blocks to the street's end, turning left (north) onto Third Avenue. Go about a block to turn left (west) at the first traffic light, onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. From the East Bay : From CA-92/Hayward, cross the San Mateo Bridge and take the first exit Foster City Blvd., curving right at the end of the ramp to a left (north-east) turn onto Foster City Blvd. Then process as described above for US-101 northbound. From the North Bay and San Francisco : From US-101 southbound, exit eastbound onto Third Avenue proceeding several miles, past the Mariner's Island Blvd. intersection, to turn right (west) onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. WWW info : More info can be found at the following URLs Whistle Communications - http://www.whistle.com BAFUG - http://www.bafug.org Contact : Please contact either Nicole Harrington or Josef Grosch on or before May 11th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 3: 6:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from post.webmailer.de (natmail2.webmailer.de [192.67.198.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB89737B970 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 03:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19148; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:03:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000505114542.0096cdd0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:48:28 +0200 To: Vincent Poy From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:06 04.05.00 -1000, you wrote: > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data >Recovery company? Anyone have any recommendations for good ones that are >economical or is Ontrack the only choice? > Hi! Ontrack is the one that is well known. A german mag tested some companies with prepared HDDs, and they came to the result that in most cases the big four (in germany) were equal, only differ in service. IIRC it was the c't or the PC Intern, I'll look that up when there is concrete need... Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 7:46:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.nc.rr.com (fe2.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC2F37B98E for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 07:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@nc.rr.com) Received: from SATURN98 ([24.25.6.109]) by mail2.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Fri, 5 May 2000 10:46:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:49:37 -0400 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) Educational Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8451.000505@nc.rr.com> To: Nathan Vidican Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mcafee uvscan In-reply-To: <3912DB49.2B2E4B6D@wmptl.com> References: <3912DB49.2B2E4B6D@wmptl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Nathan, http://www.nai.com/asp_set/buy_try/try/products_evals.asp Neill Friday, May 05, 2000, 10:31:37 AM, you wrote: NV> Where can I obtain McAfee Viruscan for FreeBSD? We are attempting to NV> utilize Amavis, (sendmail virus scanner) to scan all incoming email's NV> before they are given to users of windows systems. The problem is that NV> the software depends on a third-party virus-scanner. McAfee's virus NV> scanner for FreeBSD is supported, but I've yet to find where I can NV> download a copy of it, (even if it's only a trial version?). If anyone NV> knows where I can obtain the package, please respond. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 7:47:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from happy.checkpoint.com (happy.checkpoint.com [199.203.156.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F8837B9D2 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 07:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by happy.checkpoint.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA54021; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:47:08 GMT (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 17:47:08 +0000 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: Marc Nicholas Cc: "Nicole Harrington." , Jeremiah Gowdy , chat@freebsd.org, Lloyd Rennie Subject: Re: ILOVEYOU Message-ID: <20000505174708.A53963@happy.checkpoint.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from marc@netstor.com on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 03:11:53PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org MF -hackers: On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 03:11:53PM -0400, Marc Nicholas wrote: > > > On Thu, 4 May 2000, Nicole Harrington. wrote: > > > "or some gay trojan written" > > > > EXCUSE ME? > > Hehe...'gay' means 'silly' to some of us (especially Canadians). Nothing > to do with being happy or homosexual. I wonder, in fact, if 'gay' still means 'merry' to anyone. That's how I scanned that phrase anyway ;) Down with language police, Anatoly. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 13:14:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FEF37BC68 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 13:14:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13928; Fri, 5 May 2000 10:14:42 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:14:42 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 May 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Vincent Poy writes: > > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data > > Recovery company? > > No. We have backups. That's easy to say for Desktops but notebooks are harder to backup. Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 13:44:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D28D37B79B for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 13:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14148; Fri, 5 May 2000 10:44:07 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:44:07 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000505114542.0096cdd0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 May 2000, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > At 16:06 04.05.00 -1000, you wrote: > > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data > >Recovery company? Anyone have any recommendations for good ones that are > >economical or is Ontrack the only choice? > > > Hi! > > Ontrack is the one that is well known. Yep, Ontrack certainly is well known but what are the other popular ones in the US that are good. It seems like I tried PRC and all they can do is repair drives and software recovery and not have the equipment since they referred me to Ontrack. > A german mag tested some companies with prepared HDDs, and they came to the > result that in most cases the big four (in germany) were equal, only differ > in service. > IIRC it was the c't or the PC Intern, I'll look that up when there is > concrete need... Well, my notebook 14 gig HDD in the IBM ThinkPad 770Z HD had a Head Crash so I'm trying to locate someone who can do the job well and for a decent price. Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 14:29:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3763A37BC9D for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02173; Fri, 5 May 2000 23:29:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: Vincent Poy Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 May 2000 23:29:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: Vincent Poy's message of "Fri, 5 May 2000 10:14:42 -1000 (HST)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vincent Poy writes: > On 5 May 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Vincent Poy writes: > > > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data > > > Recovery company? > > No. We have backups. > That's easy to say for Desktops but notebooks are harder to backup. Not really. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 14:37:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FD737BCB9 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:37:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14572; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:37:41 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:37:41 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 May 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Vincent Poy writes: > > On 5 May 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Vincent Poy writes: > > > > Has anyone had a hard disk head crash and needed to use a Data > > > > Recovery company? > > > No. We have backups. > > That's easy to say for Desktops but notebooks are harder to backup. > > Not really. Depends. On a desktop, you can easily clone the drives. On a notebook, how do you clone the drives or do images to CDs without taking the drive out and connecting it to a desktop? Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 14:43:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D300737BC9E for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA56667; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:43:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:43:04 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Vincent Poy Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > > Depends. On a desktop, you can easily clone the drives. On a > notebook, how do you clone the drives or do images to CDs without taking > the drive out and connecting it to a desktop? > rdump? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 14:44:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A2F37BC9E for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:44:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14638; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:44:29 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:44:29 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: David Scheidt Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 May 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > > Depends. On a desktop, you can easily clone the drives. On a > > notebook, how do you clone the drives or do images to CDs without taking > > the drive out and connecting it to a desktop? > > rdump? Wouldn't that only work if the machine was connected to the network? Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 14:51:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9869637BCCE for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA58493; Fri, 5 May 2000 16:51:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:51:17 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Vincent Poy Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > On Fri, 5 May 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > > > > Depends. On a desktop, you can easily clone the drives. On a > > > notebook, how do you clone the drives or do images to CDs without taking > > > the drive out and connecting it to a desktop? > > > > rdump? > > Wouldn't that only work if the machine was connected to the > network? Yeah, there's that. Laptops are a problem to keep backup up. I think the best solution is not to have much on them. If all you have is real data, you can backup to floppy. There isn't 2 megs of real data on my laptop most of the time. I leave a copy of mail on a server, and back up the base configuration, so the only thing I have to worry about is whatever I am working on. That fits handly on a floppy, or I can copy it some other machine the next time I am on a network. A couple of megs doesn't take that long to move over even a failrlyh slow modem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 15: 3: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (oahu.WURLDLINK.NET [208.164.68.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D7437BCCE for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by oahu.WURLDLINK.NET (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14812; Fri, 5 May 2000 12:02:55 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:02:55 -1000 (HST) From: Vincent Poy To: David Scheidt Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hard Disk Data Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 May 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > > > > > > Depends. On a desktop, you can easily clone the drives. On a > > > > notebook, how do you clone the drives or do images to CDs without taking > > > > the drive out and connecting it to a desktop? > > > > > > rdump? > > > > Wouldn't that only work if the machine was connected to the > > network? > > Yeah, there's that. Laptops are a problem to keep backup up. I think the > best solution is not to have much on them. If all you have is real data, > you can backup to floppy. There isn't 2 megs of real data on my laptop most > of the time. I leave a copy of mail on a server, and back up the base > configuration, so the only thing I have to worry about is whatever I am > working on. That fits handly on a floppy, or I can copy it some other > machine the next time I am on a network. A couple of megs doesn't take that > long to move over even a failrlyh slow modem. Normally, I backup to both a second HD and ftp it to another machine on the local network for redundancy. On the notebook, however, it just crashed all of a sudden so the only choice I have now is data recovery. I have my drive at PRC (www.prcdiskdrives.com) who can't repair or recover the data since they only probably do software based recoveries and refer me to Ontrack which is expensive and you lose $100 even if you don't get anything back. That's why I was asking if anyone knew any companies that they've used that are good since all the advertising on the websites seems to indicate they are the best and then there is adeciding factor of who to send it to. Cheers, Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ] San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 5 15:30:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5986837B8A6 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e45Muhe10443; Fri, 5 May 2000 15:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:56:43 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Warner Losh , Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/pc98/conf GENERIC Message-ID: <20000505155643.G29830@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200005052107.PAA56811@harmony.village.org> <3137.957561375@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3137.957561375@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Fri, May 05, 2000 at 11:16:15PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Poul-Henning Kamp [000505 14:48] wrote: > In message <200005052107.PAA56811@harmony.village.org>, Warner Losh writes: > >In message <20000505230217.D71925@lucifer.bart.nl> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven writes: > >: Current platforms I know of which are targetted: > >: > >: IA-32, IA-64, Alpha, Sparc[-32/-64], ARM, PowerPC > > > >There's also an inactive mips port as well, but given the level of > >help and interest I've had on it, it might be best not to count that. > > I have two SGI's I can send to any interested hackers for free: > > http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/sgi1.jpg > http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/sgi2.jpg > > Receipient gets to fight local customs over them. Note to phk: Drink less coffee before using digital cam so ability to stand still is intact. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 6 21: 4:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649E237B6BC; Sat, 6 May 2000 21:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA30071; Sat, 6 May 2000 21:04:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:04:21 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Good Article about FreeBSD Message-ID: <20000506210421.A30037@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org CNN.com, by way of Computerworld, has a good article about Open Source OSs being used in business. http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/05/05/open.source.smugglers.idg/index.html Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message