From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 2 9:10: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from gauntlet.telerama.com (gauntlet.telerama.com [205.201.1.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CC937B956 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncrawler@telerama.com) Received: from gauntlet.telerama.com (ncrawler@gauntlet.telerama.com [205.201.1.214]) by gauntlet.telerama.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05122; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:09:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ncrawler@telerama.com) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Tracy To: Viktors Rotanovs Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Free Application Servers In-Reply-To: <38E3E633.23DE14C9@riga.nu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey there. Yeah this doesn't really pertain to FreeBSD in particular, but some ISPs might be interested in it. I'm not sure if you're looking for an e-commerce development application or something else... But, if you're looking for something like minivend to build an online "shopping center" you might want to checkout a program called Hazel, see http://www.netsville.com for more information. AFAIK, it *is* a commercial program, but they have an on-line demo on the website so you can check it out. I don't use it personnelly (only checked out the demo), but a friend of mine runs the company... When I looked at it, it seemed to have a lot of nice features... Hope this helps! -Chris Tracy (Telerama Internet -/- Network Administrator -/- www.telerama.com) On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Viktors Rotanovs wrote: > Hello! > > Maybe not exactly FreeBSD or ISP question, but anyway... > What do people use for building portal and shop > hybrid? Minivend, Zope, Enhydra, or something else? > > Just for reference: > http://www.minivend.com/ > http://www.enhydra.org/ > http://www.zope.org/ > > Best Wishes, > Viktors Rotanovs > > DATIONS Ltd., phone: +371 9173000, fax: +371 7377472 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 2 21: 6:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from greencreek.kappaisle.com (24.65.68.249.on.wave.home.com [24.65.68.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E34337BA0B for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mikey@kappaisle.com) Received: from localhost (mikey@localhost) by greencreek.kappaisle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04522; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:21:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mikey@kappaisle.com) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:21:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mike To: dave@allunix.com Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Web-based control panel for hosting clients. In-Reply-To: <200003282335.PAA04903@web1.allunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David, It seems that deploying H*Sphere requires tweaking of several key system configurations, and I believe that most of them would be done with sudo processes. What I would do is setting up another server for H*Sphere, and setup a separate DNS for this Web Control Panel (i.e. control.domain.com points to H*Sphere server) for hosting clients to logon. For scalability, since H*Sphere uses SQL server to store most of the data, you can setup several web servers on the front-end, and SQL server (H*Sphere uses PostgreSQL) on the back-end to handle growing requests and provide redundancy. For shell users, you probably need to setup the mail reader to access the SQL server to retrieve email if you'd like to allow shell users to have the same mails in inbox as their web-based email account. In addition, it is possible to tweak sendmail or qmail (H*Sphere current uses sendmail but will migrate to qmail in future release) to deliver incoming mails to SQL server, and also able to make POP3/IMAP servers to work with SQL. The level of complexity involved is quite significant if you really want to migrate existing systems to work with H*Sphere's structure. I have already request trial of this product and will perform some tests and integrate it with our existing infrastructure. Hopefully, things might not be as complicated as it seems. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Regards, Mike On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 dave@allunix.com wrote: > Mike, > > I am in the same situation as you, an ISP which would like to offer > something like the Plus Mail system, which is a web based > interface for doing redirects .htaccess and such. It does appear > that h sphere fills all of our needs but I am concerned about their > script overwriting all of my configurations? > > Does this mean that any changes made outside of the interface will > be overwrote? > > Could you let me know what you think if you try it on a production > box? > > Thank you, > > David DeTinne > Allunix Consulting > On 28 Mar 00, at 9:17, Mike wrote: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 2 21:27:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from lark.capnet.state.tx.us (lark.capnet.state.tx.us [204.65.39.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA0F37B62E for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bryan.Bradsby@capnet.state.tx.us) Received: from localhost (bbradsby@localhost) by lark.capnet.state.tx.us (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e334RiB11072 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:27:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:27:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bryan Bradsby To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virtual Hosts and Mail Users In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000330093501.00a8d5b0@mail.palaver.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Ryugen C. Fisher wrote: > Is there a method to set virtual domains for virtual hosts in the sendmail > or other program.. so that the mail stream (in and out) appears to come > from a server of the same domain as the one(s) being virtually hosted. VirtualUserTable in sendmail. Translates incoming fully qualified e-mail addresses to a local account or remote (forwarded) e-mail address. > Is there a way to create, handle, manage MAIL users without making them > system users on the FreeBSD server.... for example one company (thus one > account) needs 10 mailboxes, each to and from a different name .. I would > like to be able to do this without making 10 UNIX users... since all that > is required is mail access .. they will be using POP3 or IMAP4 MUAs to > get and send their messages With VirtualUserTable you would need to create 1 local account, to receive mail for all 10 virtual users. Your users could set their 10 outgoing addresses in their mail clients. > Ryugen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 7:35:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from post.com2com.ru (post.com2com.ru [195.98.160.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32A437B6DB for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vigov@com2com.ru) Received: from VIGOV (ws80.com2com.ru [195.98.160.80]) by post.com2com.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10492 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:35:05 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vigov@com2com.ru) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:42:27 +0400 From: vigov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) Educational Reply-To: vigov Organization: 2Com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <16779.000403@com2com.ru> To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mppe in FBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello All. I'm using pptpd server under FBSD (PoPToP). It's working, but i haven't data encryption. But under Linux it working fine, there's a lot of patches for linux, as i understand i need in any module for kernel, but it's linux only, how can i port it to FBSD? Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 8:50:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from satan.freebsdsystems.com (24.69.168.6.on.wave.home.com [24.69.168.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E907037B5D2 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lnb@satan.freebsdsystems.com) Received: (from lnb@localhost) by satan.freebsdsystems.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20569 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:52:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lnb) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Organization: FreeBSD Systems Inc. From: Lanny Baron To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: vpn's Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Can someone point me the where/how to set up virtual private networks. Thanks, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 10:38:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.139.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02DB037B630 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:38:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (hak.nat.Awfulhak.org [172.31.0.12]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA37448; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:37:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05803; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:32:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004031732.SAA05803@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: vigov Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: mppe in FBSD In-Reply-To: Message from vigov of "Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:42:27 +0400." <16779.000403@com2com.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:32:01 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hello All. > I'm using pptpd server under FBSD (PoPToP). It's working, but i > haven't data encryption. But under Linux it working fine, there's a > lot of patches for linux, as i understand i need in any module for > kernel, but it's linux only, how can i port it to FBSD? I'm working on MPPC/MPPE for ppp(8) at the moment. > Eugene -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 10:41:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from anna.cs.ru.lv (anna.cs.ru.lv [159.148.235.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9326E37B901 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vic1@cs.ru.lv) Received: from localhost (vic1@localhost) by anna.cs.ru.lv (8.8.8/X.Y.Z) with ESMTP id UAA12485 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:40:44 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:40:44 +0300 (EET DST) From: Just Call Me Vic To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: help. strange problem. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After upgrading from 3.2 to 4.0, installer said, that my fstab file is non-standard or absent, and after reboot my machine behaves really "strange". It can't automatically find shell at startup, and the only directories I can see the files in are /bin, /sbin, and /etc, whitch is not my old etc, definately. Should I consider this as unsuccessful upgrade, or I can fix it somehow? Please reply directly, this address is not on the list. Thank you in advance. ---> Vic <--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 11:11:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from anna.cs.ru.lv (anna.cs.ru.lv [159.148.235.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF7037BF06 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vic1@cs.ru.lv) Received: from localhost (vic1@localhost) by anna.cs.ru.lv (8.8.8/X.Y.Z) with ESMTP id VAA12555 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:11:06 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:11:05 +0300 (EET DST) From: Just Call Me Vic To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: same problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I forgot to mention, that there's no fstab file at /etc at all. where it's gone? ---> Vic <--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 13:21:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from web1.allunix.com (17.93.rsvl.dsl.quiknet.com [207.231.93.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82C137B95D for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from David@allunix.com) Received: from tiffany (tiffany.allunix.com [192.168.3.4]) by web1.allunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06739 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from David@allunix.com) From: David@allunix.com To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:26:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: freeside Message-ID: <38E89BE9.31294.35180FE@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is anyone running freeside on a production FreeBSD box? I am having a heck of a time installing it. The problem seems to be with the setuid module? Thanks, David DeTinne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 3 18:49:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from wat-border.sentex.ca (waterloo-hespler.sentex.ca [199.212.135.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B1F37B517 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:49:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite-atm.sentex.ca [209.112.4.1]) by wat-border.sentex.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA33480; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:49:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from chimp.simianscience.com (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14185; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:49:34 -0400 (EDT) From: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) To: lnb@freebsdsystems.com (Lanny Baron) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vpn's Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 01:47:00 GMT Message-ID: <38e9495e.348513055@mail.sentex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 3 Apr 2000 11:50:39 -0400, in sentex.lists.freebsd.isp you wrote: >Hello, >Can someone point me the where/how to set up virtual private networks. How about in the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ipsec.html ---Mike Mike Tancsa (mdtancsa@sentex.net) Sentex Communications Corp, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada "Given enough time, 100 monkeys on 100 routers could setup a national IP network." (KDW2) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 5:57:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from seidata.com (mail.seidata.com [208.10.211.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD1737B8AD for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 05:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pboehmer@seidata.com) Received: from wopr (lan-gw.seidata.com [208.10.211.26]) by seidata.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20026 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000404090018.00812250@mail.seidata.com> X-Sender: pboehmer@mail.seidata.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:00:18 -0400 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Paul Boehmer Subject: Snapshots? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have been searching around on ftp.freebsd.org (and some mirrors) and I found the snapshots directory is empty. I realize that 4.0 is out, but would that make any difference? What I need is the installation floppies and the directory to look at for ftp install. Any help appreciated Paul Boehmer Systems Administrator SEI Data, Inc pboehmer@seidata.com (888)200-4392 Voice (812)744-8000 Fax To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 6:21:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from ms1.meiway.com (ms1.meiway.com [212.73.210.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCF7737BB3C for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lconrad@Go2France.com) Received: from sv.Go2France.com [212.73.210.79] by ms1.meiway.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD97F090204; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:26:47 +0200 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000404151512.0301ec10@mail.Go2France.com> X-Sender: lconrad%Go2France.com@mail.Go2France.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:20:27 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Len Conrad Subject: Channelized T1/E1 PRI for FreeBSD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apart from Ariel, has any channelized T1/E1 PRI become available for FreeBSD? www.LanMedia.com is delivering their LMC1500 PCI card this month, but it's too evident how to mount a development/test effort, find a hacker to do it, get the boards, get testing access to a PRI. We're in France, and could probably give a developer telnet root access to a development machine with channelized PRI i/f card plus line if the developer could commit some time to it so we'd get a solution eventually. Len To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 7: 4:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from web1.allunix.com (17.93.rsvl.dsl.quiknet.com [207.231.93.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A0E37B7E5 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from David@allunix.com) Received: from tiffany (tiffany.allunix.com [192.168.3.4]) by web1.allunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17924 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from David@allunix.com) From: David@allunix.com To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:11:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Snapshots? Message-ID: <38E9958F.9509.720DA98@localhost> In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20000404090018.00812250@mail.seidata.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Are you looking for the development version or 4.0-Release? directory for 4.0 below ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.0-RELEASE/ I believe that current can be found at current.freebsd.org You probably should look in to cvsup if you are going to follow current. David DeTinne On 4 Apr 2000, at 9:00, Paul Boehmer wrote: > > I have been searching around on ftp.freebsd.org (and some mirrors) and > I found the snapshots directory is empty. I realize that 4.0 is out, > but would that make any difference? What I need is the installation > floppies and the directory to look at for ftp install. > > Any help appreciated > > > Paul Boehmer > Systems Administrator > SEI Data, Inc > pboehmer@seidata.com > (888)200-4392 Voice > (812)744-8000 Fax > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 8: 3:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0048E37B56E for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from ezo.net (violet.ezo.net [206.151.177.37]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20444; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38EA043F.CBCD8796@ezo.net> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:03:27 -0400 From: Jim Flowers Organization: EZNets, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Channelized T1/E1 PRI for FreeBSD? References: <4.3.1.2.20000404151512.0301ec10@mail.Go2France.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I thought Paul Vixie had done a fbsd driver for lanmedia. Are they not taking the same approach this time? Len Conrad wrote: > Apart from Ariel, has any channelized T1/E1 PRI become available for FreeBSD? > > www.LanMedia.com is delivering their LMC1500 PCI card this month, but it's > too evident how to mount a development/test effort, find a hacker to do it, > get the boards, get testing access to a PRI. > > We're in France, and could probably give a developer telnet root access to > a development machine with channelized PRI i/f card plus line if the > developer could commit some time to it so we'd get a solution eventually. > > Len > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 8:19:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from ms1.meiway.com (ms1.meiway.com [212.73.210.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9216937B859 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lconrad@Go2France.com) Received: from sv.Go2France.com [212.73.210.79] by ms1.meiway.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A94C2640218; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:25:00 +0200 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000404171110.00b661b0@mail.Go2France.com> X-Sender: lconrad%Go2France.com@mail.Go2France.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:18:40 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Len Conrad Subject: Re: Channelized T1/E1 PRI for FreeBSD? Cc: Jim Flowers In-Reply-To: <38EA043F.CBCD8796@ezo.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20000404151512.0301ec10@mail.Go2France.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I thought Paul Vixie had done a fbsd driver for lanmedia. Are they not taking >the same approach this time? I know there was a driver done for the LanMedia HSSI card by phk@critter.freebsd.dk, but this channelized PRI support is a different project. LanMedia uses s/w from www.gcom.com for their various drivers and stacks. gcom is doing the work channelized work but not for FreeBSD. dave@gcom.com was the guy I talked to about this. There seems to be plenty of boards and drivers around for clear channel, but hardly any for channelized. Len To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 17:22:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from lunatic.oneinsane.net (lunatic.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED98937BC87 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net) Received: by lunatic.oneinsane.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 50FA15D8C; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:21:53 -0700 From: Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Best Billing Software Message-ID: <20000404172153.A49267@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Reply-To: Ron Rosson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 4.0-RELEASE X-Moon: The Moon is New X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net X-PGP-KEY: http://www.oneinsane.net/~insane/insane2-pgp5i.txt X-Uptime: 5:20PM up 6:44, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.14, 0.23 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What is the best billing software you have run across that runs on FreeBSD and that scales well. TIA -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was /dev/null and *void() ------------------------------------------------------------------- Better living through denial To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 4 23:45:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from post.com2com.ru (post.com2com.ru [195.98.160.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF5D37BCE9 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vigov@com2com.ru) Received: from 192.168.67.18 (ws215.com2com.ru [195.98.160.215]) by post.com2com.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07504; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:45:31 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vigov@com2com.ru) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:53:00 +0400 From: vigov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) Educational Reply-To: vigov Organization: 2Com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <14453.000405@com2com.ru> To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ru-freebsd-questions@freebsd.ru Subject: maximum ppp devices in kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi All, for some reasons i have to use 1024 ppp devices in kernel, it compiles well but after reboot i can't run sendmail and named it drops with segmentation fault. How many ppp can i have in kernel? Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 5 5:24:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from norad.inetu.net (norad.inetu.net [206.245.188.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCD437B7EB for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 05:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dev@inetu.net) Received: from localhost (dev@localhost) by norad.inetu.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24047 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:29:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: flat network Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know this may be a bit more of a network problem, but in my experience, freebsd people have the best skills here to :) We have a server farm of about 200 servers. We have a single router which connects to our bay switches (about 10 switches, all uplink into 1 100 mbps switch). The first 140+ servers were added with random ip addresses assigned to random servers (a block of 20 here, a block of 40 ip's there). Since then, we have started assigned logical blocks (/28, /29, etc.) to servers and routing the block directly to the server's main ip address (to cut down on required arp entries in router). We have a problem where new servers, that don't receive much traffic, tend to drop off the network. After you ping them for about 30 seconds plus they will return. If you constantly ping them, they will not fall off the network (0% packet loss with over 64,000 packets sent during the night). I was wondering if anyone had experienced similiar problems. I think either our router or switch is expiring the arp entry and taking time to re-learn it (due to the large size of our flat network). But how does one actually tell if this is the problem. Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited. Thanks, Dev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 5 15:19:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mail.alpha.net.au (mail2.alpha.net.au [203.41.44.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131F637B8F0 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 15:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyh@idx.com.au) Received: from freebsd.freebsd.org (surry-pool-164.alpha.net.au [203.41.44.164] (may be forged)) by mail.alpha.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02036; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:19:08 +1000 From: Danny To: Ron Rosson , "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best Billing Software Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:23:07 +1000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000404172153.A49267@lunatic.oneinsane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00040708234200.00331@freebsd.freebsd.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.billmax.com is pretty good but for a non billing system try platpyus On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > What is the best billing software you have run across that runs on FreeBSD and > that scales well. > > TIA > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... > The InSaNe One rm -rf * > insane@oneinsane.net and all was /dev/null and *void() > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Better living through denial > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 5 16:41:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [207.154.226.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB2D37B953 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hpaul@elvis.mu.org) Received: (from hpaul@localhost) by elvis.mu.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA47361; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:42:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from hpaul) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:42:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "H. Paul Hammann" To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Summary: Remote controlled power strip X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14571.52856.649908.494359@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks for all the suggestions. The only thing that came close to what I wanted was the APC MasterSwitch. Good Points: 1. The system can be completely controlled over the serial console. 2. The outlets average just slightly less than one per rack unit. 3. Each outlet can be individually controlled. 4. Definable user accounts with passwords, md5 hash or plaintext. Bad Points: 1. The serial port is fixed at 2400 baud. 2. The interface is menu based. This can be overcome with a little bit of expect scripting. 3. It ships with racking hardware to mount it horizontally in a 19" rack. Mounting it vertically will require a custom mounting solution. Just one more reason that everyone should have a metal shop. Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 5 18:52:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from brent.tccsweb.com (cr314206-a.crdva1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.53.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B162537BDB2 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brent@talou.net) Received: from talou.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by brent.tccsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26596; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brent@talou.net) Message-ID: <38EBEDC5.1719453@talou.net> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:52:05 -0700 From: Brent Rector X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Danny Cc: Ron Rosson , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best Billing Software References: <20000404172153.A49267@lunatic.oneinsane.net> <00040708234200.00331@freebsd.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We have been using Billmax for awhile now and its a great program, their prices are directly related to the amount of active accounts. They do have a 100 Account demo that will get you started it is not limited at all. This software manages our call tracking trouble tickets etc! Brent Danny wrote: > > www.billmax.com is pretty good > > but for a non billing system try platpyus > > On Wed, 05 Apr 2000, Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > > What is the best billing software you have run across that runs on FreeBSD and > > that scales well. > > > > TIA > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... > > The InSaNe One rm -rf * > > insane@oneinsane.net and all was /dev/null and *void() > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Better living through denial > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > -- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- Brent L. Rector brent@talou.net SysAdmin Talou Internet Services Corp. http://www.talou.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- As a computing professional, I believe it would be unethical for me to advise, recommend, or support the use (save possibly for personal amusement) of any product that is or depends on any Microsoft product. -- OWNED? MS: Who's Been In Your Computer Today? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 5 19:51:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F9A37B632 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.9.2/8.9.2/SNNS-1.02) id BAA20869; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:54:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200004080654.BAA20869@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: flat network To: dev@inetu.net Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:54:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I know this may be a bit more of a network > problem, but in my experience, freebsd people have > the best skills here to :) > > We have a server farm of about 200 servers. > > We have a single router which connects to our bay > switches (about 10 switches, all uplink into 1 100 > mbps switch). > > The first 140+ servers were added with random ip > addresses assigned to random servers (a block of > 20 here, a block of 40 ip's there). > > Since then, we have started assigned logical > blocks (/28, /29, etc.) to servers and routing the > block directly to the server's main ip address (to > cut down on required arp entries in router). > > We have a problem where new servers, that don't > receive much traffic, tend to drop off the > network. After you ping them for about 30 seconds > plus they will return. > > If you constantly ping them, they will not fall > off the network (0% packet loss with over 64,000 > packets sent during the night). > > I was wondering if anyone had experienced similiar > problems. > > I think either our router or switch is expiring > the arp entry and taking time to re-learn it (due > to the large size of our flat network). But how > does one actually tell if this is the problem. > > Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited. You have 200 servers, or 200 virtual hosts on N (N << 200) servers? Adding additional alias interfaces is generally not the real cool way to do web service, in any event. It is the first obvious mistake that many ISP's make... the advertising of crap on large flat networks via ARP. I've seen an ISP that did its dial-in pool as a /18 and used ARP so that folks with static IP addresses worked. I've seen places with /16's with a 0xffff0000 netmask - which caused the obvious problems with all sorts of networking devices, since the network had ~8,000 nodes or so on it. Use routing protocols. Break down and learn OSPF. If you have ten switches being aggregated into a 100mbps switch, dump the 100mbps switch and replace it with a router with a bunch of 100mbps ports. Take each junior switch, put it on a 0xffffffe0 network off of the router, and populate that with ten or twenty machines that are running your servers. Then you allocate a bunch of address space for virtual services, and you use OSPF to advertise each. You bind additional aliases to lo0 and advertise them as stubs or something like that, I've explained methods here before. Then you can even do clever things like redundant ethernets for instant, automatic failover. This sort of design should allow you to go up to a few hundred physical servers supporting thousands of virtual web sites, with no problem. -- ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 8:37:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from nlaredo.globalpc.net (nld2.globalpc.net [207.193.206.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040B037C1C1 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Received: from ds9 (ds9.globalpc.net [207.193.204.57]) by nlaredo.globalpc.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA71916 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:38:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000406103600.00910da0@globalpc.net> X-Sender: adrianbsd@globalpc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:36:00 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Adrian Gonzalez Subject: Bandwidth aggregation question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello I'm hoping that somebody else on this list has the same problem as I do, so here goes. We're an ISP with offices in two neighboring cities, one is in the US, the other one in Mexico. We currently have a couple of wireless bridges between the offices (breezecom), and the Mexico office gets its net access from the US side (since Internet access in Mexico at higher bandwidths is prohibitively expensive). The problem is the wireless bridges aren't quite performing as good as I'd like them too. One is a 3mbps model, running at two (because it's proved to be more reliable at 2), the other is one of the newer 11mbps To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 8:49:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from nlaredo.globalpc.net (nld2.globalpc.net [207.193.206.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0537737B714 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Received: from ds9 (ds9.globalpc.net [207.193.204.57]) by nlaredo.globalpc.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA73651 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:50:27 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000406104739.00915cc0@globalpc.net> X-Sender: adrianbsd@globalpc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:47:39 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Adrian Gonzalez Subject: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (the previous message was accidentaly sent before completion.. that's what I get for using a different editor than the one I'm used to...) Hello I'm hoping that somebody else on this list has had the same problem as I do, so here goes. We're an ISP with offices in two neighboring cities, one is in the US, the other one in Mexico. We currently have a couple of wireless bridges between the offices (breezecom), and the Mexico office gets its net access from the US side (since Internet access in Mexico at higher bandwidths is prohibitively expensive). The problem is the wireless bridges aren't quite performing as good as I'd like them too. One is a 3mbps model, running at two (because it's proven to be more reliable at 2), the other is one of the newer 11mbps models. Currently, each bridge handles a few of the subnets we have, in an attempt to balance the load between them, however, they're not scaling particularly well under the heavy traffic. My question is, is there a way of doing some sort of bandwidth aggregation, or something that would let me treat 2 or more wireless bridges as a single "point to point" link? I was toying around with PPPoE, in hopes that I would be able to do multilink PPPoE, however I don't think that's possible (yet?) and the PPPoE documentation seems to be a work in progress. I got a quote for a pair of 'tsunami' 100mbps (45 full-duplex) wireless bridges and it was close to 30k so I'm hoping to find another solution using FreeBSD. Any suggestions welcome -Adrian Gonzalez -Global PCNet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 9:44:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mel.alcatel.fr (mel.alcatel.fr [212.208.74.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606D337BE56 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr) Received: from aifhs10.alcatel.fr (mailhub2.alcatel.fr [155.132.188.80]) by mel.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP) with ESMTP id RAA19470; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:35:35 +0200 From: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr Received: from frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr (frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.32]) by aifhs10.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP2) with SMTP id SAA19901; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:36:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id C12568B9.005BEAE7 ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:43:59 +0200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ALCATEL To: Adrian Gonzalez Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:43:51 +0200 Subject: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap way to aggregate bandwidth. Things to do : - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio link - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) TfH Adrian Gonzalez on 06/04/2000 17:47:39 To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG cc: (bcc: Thierry HERBELOT/FR/ALCATEL) Subject: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) (the previous message was accidentaly sent before completion.. that's what I get for using a different editor than the one I'm used to...) Hello I'm hoping that somebody else on this list has had the same problem as I do, so here goes. We're an ISP with offices in two neighboring cities, one is in the US, the other one in Mexico. We currently have a couple of wireless bridges between the offices (breezecom), and the Mexico office gets its net access from the US side (since Internet access in Mexico at higher bandwidths is prohibitively expensive). The problem is the wireless bridges aren't quite performing as good as I'd like them too. One is a 3mbps model, running at two (because it's proven to be more reliable at 2), the other is one of the newer 11mbps models. Currently, each bridge handles a few of the subnets we have, in an attempt to balance the load between them, however, they're not scaling particularly well under the heavy traffic. My question is, is there a way of doing some sort of bandwidth aggregation, or something that would let me treat 2 or more wireless bridges as a single "point to point" link? I was toying around with PPPoE, in hopes that I would be able to do multilink PPPoE, however I don't think that's possible (yet?) and the PPPoE documentation seems to be a work in progress. I got a quote for a pair of 'tsunami' 100mbps (45 full-duplex) wireless bridges and it was close to 30k so I'm hoping to find another solution using FreeBSD. Any suggestions welcome -Adrian Gonzalez -Global PCNet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 10:50:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from cpq.nyi.net (cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E955B37BBD4 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:50:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Received: from nyi.net (root@cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by cpq.nyi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02067; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:50:25 GMT (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Message-ID: <38ECCE61.511B5A98@nyi.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:50:25 -0400 From: Javier Frias Organization: NYI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Greco Cc: dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flat network References: <200004080654.BAA20869@aurora.sol.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From experience, the best solution is to implement vlans in your network. Joe Greco wrote: > > > I know this may be a bit more of a network > > problem, but in my experience, freebsd people have > > the best skills here to :) > > > > We have a server farm of about 200 servers. > > > > We have a single router which connects to our bay > > switches (about 10 switches, all uplink into 1 100 > > mbps switch). > > > > The first 140+ servers were added with random ip > > addresses assigned to random servers (a block of > > 20 here, a block of 40 ip's there). > > > > Since then, we have started assigned logical > > blocks (/28, /29, etc.) to servers and routing the > > block directly to the server's main ip address (to > > cut down on required arp entries in router). > > > > We have a problem where new servers, that don't > > receive much traffic, tend to drop off the > > network. After you ping them for about 30 seconds > > plus they will return. > > > > If you constantly ping them, they will not fall > > off the network (0% packet loss with over 64,000 > > packets sent during the night). > > > > I was wondering if anyone had experienced similiar > > problems. > > > > I think either our router or switch is expiring > > the arp entry and taking time to re-learn it (due > > to the large size of our flat network). But how > > does one actually tell if this is the problem. > > > > Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited. > > You have 200 servers, or 200 virtual hosts on N (N << 200) servers? > > Adding additional alias interfaces is generally not the real cool > way to do web service, in any event. It is the first obvious mistake > that many ISP's make... the advertising of crap on large flat networks > via ARP. I've seen an ISP that did its dial-in pool as a /18 and used > ARP so that folks with static IP addresses worked. I've seen places > with /16's with a 0xffff0000 netmask - which caused the obvious problems > with all sorts of networking devices, since the network had ~8,000 nodes > or so on it. > > Use routing protocols. Break down and learn OSPF. If you have ten > switches being aggregated into a 100mbps switch, dump the 100mbps > switch and replace it with a router with a bunch of 100mbps ports. > Take each junior switch, put it on a 0xffffffe0 network off of the > router, and populate that with ten or twenty machines that are > running your servers. Then you allocate a bunch of address space > for virtual services, and you use OSPF to advertise each. You bind > additional aliases to lo0 and advertise them as stubs or something > like that, I've explained methods here before. Then you can even do > clever things like redundant ethernets for instant, automatic > failover. This sort of design should allow you to go up to a few > hundred physical servers supporting thousands of virtual web sites, > with no problem. > -- > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- MMM \|/ www __^__ (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo Javier A. Frias Sr. System Administrator The New York Internet Company 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor New York, N.Y. 10005 "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" --------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 10:53:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from cpq.nyi.net (cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70EF37BF8C for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Received: from nyi.net (root@cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by cpq.nyi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02078; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:55:30 GMT (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Message-ID: <38ECCF92.92351A72@nyi.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:55:30 -0400 From: Javier Frias Organization: NYI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Gonzalez Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) References: <3.0.6.32.20000406104739.00915cc0@globalpc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org another solution is to have switches ( on either side) that supports truncking. and trunc the links together. Adrian Gonzalez wrote: > > (the previous message was accidentaly sent before completion.. that's what > I get for using a different editor than the one I'm used to...) > > Hello > > I'm hoping that somebody else on this list has had the same problem as I > do, so here goes. We're an ISP with offices in two neighboring cities, one > is in the US, the other one in Mexico. We currently have a couple of > wireless bridges between the offices (breezecom), and the Mexico office > gets its net access from the US side (since Internet access in Mexico at > higher bandwidths is prohibitively expensive). > > The problem is the wireless bridges aren't quite performing as good as I'd > like them too. One is a 3mbps model, running at two (because it's proven > to be more reliable at 2), the other is one of the newer 11mbps models. > Currently, each bridge handles a few of the subnets we have, in an attempt > to balance the load between them, however, they're not scaling particularly > well under the heavy traffic. > > My question is, is there a way of doing some sort of bandwidth aggregation, > or something that would let me treat 2 or more wireless bridges as a single > "point to point" link? I was toying around with PPPoE, in hopes that I > would be able to do multilink PPPoE, however I don't think that's possible > (yet?) and the PPPoE documentation seems to be a work in progress. > > I got a quote for a pair of 'tsunami' 100mbps (45 full-duplex) wireless > bridges and it was close to 30k so I'm hoping to find another solution > using FreeBSD. > > Any suggestions welcome > > -Adrian Gonzalez > -Global PCNet > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- MMM \|/ www __^__ (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo Javier A. Frias Sr. System Administrator The New York Internet Company 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor New York, N.Y. 10005 "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" --------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 11:17: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E11F37BFE0 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.9.2/8.9.2/SNNS-1.02) id SAA86584; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:52:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200004082352.SAA86584@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: flat network In-Reply-To: <38ECCE61.511B5A98@nyi.net> from Javier Frias at "Apr 6, 2000 1:50:25 pm" To: javier@nyi.net (Javier Frias) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:52:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From experience, vlan support in equipment has been known to be feeble, lame, and/or simply nonfunctional in a heterogeneous environment. vlans also do nothing to solve the problem of large numbers of ARP entries polluting your router and switch ARP tables, not to mention necessitating additional network traffic (and delays) to actually perform additional ARP requests. Additionally, the deployment of routing protocols allows you to do things such as building redundant networks at the IP level, which allows you to do all sorts of neat stuff. I routinely move servers between distant facilities _without_renumbering_ - since only the local ethernet address changes, not the actual advertised service address. > >From experience, the best solution is to implement vlans in your > network. > > Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > I know this may be a bit more of a network > > > problem, but in my experience, freebsd people have > > > the best skills here to :) > > > > > > We have a server farm of about 200 servers. > > > > > > We have a single router which connects to our bay > > > switches (about 10 switches, all uplink into 1 100 > > > mbps switch). > > > > > > The first 140+ servers were added with random ip > > > addresses assigned to random servers (a block of > > > 20 here, a block of 40 ip's there). > > > > > > Since then, we have started assigned logical > > > blocks (/28, /29, etc.) to servers and routing the > > > block directly to the server's main ip address (to > > > cut down on required arp entries in router). > > > > > > We have a problem where new servers, that don't > > > receive much traffic, tend to drop off the > > > network. After you ping them for about 30 seconds > > > plus they will return. > > > > > > If you constantly ping them, they will not fall > > > off the network (0% packet loss with over 64,000 > > > packets sent during the night). > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone had experienced similiar > > > problems. > > > > > > I think either our router or switch is expiring > > > the arp entry and taking time to re-learn it (due > > > to the large size of our flat network). But how > > > does one actually tell if this is the problem. > > > > > > Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited. > > > > You have 200 servers, or 200 virtual hosts on N (N << 200) servers? > > > > Adding additional alias interfaces is generally not the real cool > > way to do web service, in any event. It is the first obvious mistake > > that many ISP's make... the advertising of crap on large flat networks > > via ARP. I've seen an ISP that did its dial-in pool as a /18 and used > > ARP so that folks with static IP addresses worked. I've seen places > > with /16's with a 0xffff0000 netmask - which caused the obvious problems > > with all sorts of networking devices, since the network had ~8,000 nodes > > or so on it. > > > > Use routing protocols. Break down and learn OSPF. If you have ten > > switches being aggregated into a 100mbps switch, dump the 100mbps > > switch and replace it with a router with a bunch of 100mbps ports. > > Take each junior switch, put it on a 0xffffffe0 network off of the > > router, and populate that with ten or twenty machines that are > > running your servers. Then you allocate a bunch of address space > > for virtual services, and you use OSPF to advertise each. You bind > > additional aliases to lo0 and advertise them as stubs or something > > like that, I've explained methods here before. Then you can even do > > clever things like redundant ethernets for instant, automatic > > failover. This sort of design should allow you to go up to a few > > hundred physical servers supporting thousands of virtual web sites, > > with no problem. > > -- > > ... Joe > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > -- > MMM \|/ www __^__ > (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ > -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo > > Javier A. Frias > Sr. System Administrator > > The New York Internet Company > 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor > New York, N.Y. 10005 > > > "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" > --------------------------------------------------------- > -- ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 12: 8:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F277237BA41 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20835; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:04:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00494; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:46:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004061746.SAA00494@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr Cc: Adrian Gonzalez , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) ) In-Reply-To: Message from Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr of "Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:43:51 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:46:54 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hello > > There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap way to aggregate bandwidth. > > Things to do : > - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio link > - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) ppp(8) does multi-link too. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 12:31:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from cpq.nyi.net (cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398D437BF85 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Received: from nyi.net (root@cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by cpq.nyi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02252; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:32:06 GMT (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Message-ID: <38ECE636.CE86D01C@nyi.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:32:06 -0400 From: Javier Frias Organization: NYI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Greco Cc: dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flat network References: <200004082352.SAA86584@aurora.sol.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've had quite a bid different experience with vlans. At least on catalyst switches. with vlans, arp is reduced. ARP works by broadcasting a packet to all hosts attached to an Ethernet segment. Since a vlans virtually reduces the number of hosts on each "Ethernet Segment" or "vlan", the number of host an arp request reaches is smaller. To move servers between facilities you need a flat network? you can move vlans accross switches. Plus, there are quite a large nmber of ways you can do this, without the need of a huge flat network. vlans also offer quite a big more security than a flat network. crosstalk is almost eliminated. In the isp market, how some companies provide colocation without giving a customer a separate vlan is beyond my comprehesion. Joe Greco wrote: > > From experience, vlan support in equipment has been known to be feeble, > lame, and/or simply nonfunctional in a heterogeneous environment. > > vlans also do nothing to solve the problem of large numbers of ARP entries > polluting your router and switch ARP tables, not to mention necessitating > additional network traffic (and delays) to actually perform additional ARP > requests. > > Additionally, the deployment of routing protocols allows you to do things > such as building redundant networks at the IP level, which allows you to > do all sorts of neat stuff. I routinely move servers between distant > facilities _without_renumbering_ - since only the local ethernet address > changes, not the actual advertised service address. > > > >From experience, the best solution is to implement vlans in your > > network. > > > > Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > > > I know this may be a bit more of a network > > > > problem, but in my experience, freebsd people have > > > > the best skills here to :) > > > > > > > > We have a server farm of about 200 servers. > > > > > > > > We have a single router which connects to our bay > > > > switches (about 10 switches, all uplink into 1 100 > > > > mbps switch). > > > > > > > > The first 140+ servers were added with random ip > > > > addresses assigned to random servers (a block of > > > > 20 here, a block of 40 ip's there). > > > > > > > > Since then, we have started assigned logical > > > > blocks (/28, /29, etc.) to servers and routing the > > > > block directly to the server's main ip address (to > > > > cut down on required arp entries in router). > > > > > > > > We have a problem where new servers, that don't > > > > receive much traffic, tend to drop off the > > > > network. After you ping them for about 30 seconds > > > > plus they will return. > > > > > > > > If you constantly ping them, they will not fall > > > > off the network (0% packet loss with over 64,000 > > > > packets sent during the night). > > > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone had experienced similiar > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > I think either our router or switch is expiring > > > > the arp entry and taking time to re-learn it (due > > > > to the large size of our flat network). But how > > > > does one actually tell if this is the problem. > > > > > > > > Any assistance would be greatly apprecaited. > > > > > > You have 200 servers, or 200 virtual hosts on N (N << 200) servers? > > > > > > Adding additional alias interfaces is generally not the real cool > > > way to do web service, in any event. It is the first obvious mistake > > > that many ISP's make... the advertising of crap on large flat networks > > > via ARP. I've seen an ISP that did its dial-in pool as a /18 and used > > > ARP so that folks with static IP addresses worked. I've seen places > > > with /16's with a 0xffff0000 netmask - which caused the obvious problems > > > with all sorts of networking devices, since the network had ~8,000 nodes > > > or so on it. > > > > > > Use routing protocols. Break down and learn OSPF. If you have ten > > > switches being aggregated into a 100mbps switch, dump the 100mbps > > > switch and replace it with a router with a bunch of 100mbps ports. > > > Take each junior switch, put it on a 0xffffffe0 network off of the > > > router, and populate that with ten or twenty machines that are > > > running your servers. Then you allocate a bunch of address space > > > for virtual services, and you use OSPF to advertise each. You bind > > > additional aliases to lo0 and advertise them as stubs or something > > > like that, I've explained methods here before. Then you can even do > > > clever things like redundant ethernets for instant, automatic > > > failover. This sort of design should allow you to go up to a few > > > hundred physical servers supporting thousands of virtual web sites, > > > with no problem. > > > -- > > > ... Joe > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > > > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > -- > > MMM \|/ www __^__ > > (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ > > -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo > > > > Javier A. Frias > > Sr. System Administrator > > > > The New York Internet Company > > 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor > > New York, N.Y. 10005 > > > > > > "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- MMM \|/ www __^__ (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo Javier A. Frias Sr. System Administrator The New York Internet Company 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor New York, N.Y. 10005 "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" --------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 12:44: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CDE37C1C0 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.9.2/8.9.2/SNNS-1.02) id UAA92724; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:28:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200004090128.UAA92724@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: flat network In-Reply-To: <38ECE636.CE86D01C@nyi.net> from Javier Frias at "Apr 6, 2000 3:32: 6 pm" To: javier@nyi.net (Javier Frias) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:28:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've had quite a bid different experience with vlans. > At least on catalyst switches. Don't talk to me about Catalyst switches. Not today. Cisco sucks. > with vlans, arp is reduced. ARP works by broadcasting a packet to all > hosts attached > to an Ethernet segment. Since a vlans virtually reduces the number of > hosts > on each "Ethernet Segment" or "vlan", the number of host an arp request > reaches > is smaller. You're not talking to an idiot. With routing protocols, ARP is reduced further, to the point where the only ARP traffic on the network is for the physical interfaces present on the network. If you have one router and one machine on a network, with ARP you still have the potential to have as many ARP entries as you do virtual servers. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is bad, go generate about 65,000 virtual servers on such a machine, and then ask for stuff from all of them. Note the behaviour of the ARP cache on your routers and switches. The behaviour is O(N), and you are screwed when N exceeds the capacity of the ARP table on the device. God forbid you've more than one server on the net! If you have one router and one machine on a network, with OSPF you have exactly two ARP entries - and no need for the router to ARP for each virtual server. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is good, do the same test as above. The behaviour is O(1). > To move servers between facilities you need a flat network? you can move > vlans accross > switches. Plus, there are quite a large nmber of ways you can do this, > without > the need of a huge flat network. I wasn't proposing the creation of a huge flat network. My largest production network has a netmask of 0xfffffff0. I move servers between facilities with no problems, thanks to OSPF. Do a traceroute to both dns1.sol.net and dns2.sol.net, numbered right next to each other, for a trivial example. > vlans also offer quite a big more security than a flat network. > crosstalk is almost eliminated. > > In the isp market, how some companies provide colocation > without giving a customer a separate vlan is beyond my comprehesion. Use a separate routed network. Broaden your horizons. -- ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 13: 1:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from cpq.nyi.net (cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743F737C062 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Received: from nyi.net (root@cpq.nyi.net [204.248.157.72]) by cpq.nyi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02297; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:02:01 GMT (envelope-from javier@nyi.net) Message-ID: <38ECED38.421C71A7@nyi.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:02:00 -0400 From: Javier Frias Organization: NYI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Greco Cc: dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flat network References: <200004090128.UAA92724@aurora.sol.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joe Greco wrote: > > > I've had quite a bid different experience with vlans. > > At least on catalyst switches. > > Don't talk to me about Catalyst switches. Not today. Cisco sucks. > i used to think like that.... we used to use cabletron switches and one of their 8000 routers, just a test. OH MY GOD those things never worked. we even had two cabletron engineers here for 9 days. and even they couldn't get it to work right. we went back to cisco like crack whores after their pimp. so yes, cisco i snot perfect, am i hope a good contender comes out , but so far, their products have worked as advertise, and their support is next to none. true they are a bit overpriced, but with good reseller channels, you'll be amazed. i have gotten equipment for less than 1/3 as advertised. > > with vlans, arp is reduced. ARP works by broadcasting a packet to all > > hosts attached > > to an Ethernet segment. Since a vlans virtually reduces the number of > > hosts > > on each "Ethernet Segment" or "vlan", the number of host an arp request > > reaches > > is smaller. > > You're not talking to an idiot. With routing protocols, ARP is reduced > further, to the point where the only ARP traffic on the network is for the > physical interfaces present on the network. > i'm sorry if i made it look that way, i know your not ;) just for the record, I in no way think you are an idiot. true, there are other ways, i never said vlans where the only answer. but just a simple solution. > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with ARP you still have > the potential to have as many ARP entries as you do virtual servers. If you > would like a practical demonstration of why this is bad, go generate about > 65,000 virtual servers on such a machine, and then ask for stuff from all of > them. Note the behaviour of the ARP cache on your routers and switches. > The behaviour is O(N), and you are screwed when N exceeds the capacity of > the ARP table on the device. God forbid you've more than one server on the > net! > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with OSPF you have > exactly two ARP entries - and no need for the router to ARP for each virtual > server. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is good, > do the same test as above. The behaviour is O(1). > very true. as a side note, i think he meant 200 actual servers, not 200 vservers. > > To move servers between facilities you need a flat network? you can move > > vlans accross > > switches. Plus, there are quite a large nmber of ways you can do this, > > without > > the need of a huge flat network. > > I wasn't proposing the creation of a huge flat network. My largest > production network has a netmask of 0xfffffff0. I move servers between > facilities with no problems, thanks to OSPF. Do a traceroute to both > dns1.sol.net and dns2.sol.net, numbered right next to each other, for a > trivial example. > sorry, my misunderstanding. > > vlans also offer quite a big more security than a flat network. > > crosstalk is almost eliminated. > > > > In the isp market, how some companies provide colocation > > without giving a customer a separate vlan is beyond my comprehesion. > > Use a separate routed network. Broaden your horizons. i understand you reasoning. > -- > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message -- MMM \|/ www __^__ (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo Javier A. Frias Sr. System Administrator The New York Internet Company 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor New York, N.Y. 10005 "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" --------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 13:10:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mirage.nlink.com.br (mirage.nlink.com.br [200.249.195.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1348D37B6A1 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulo@nlink.com.br) Received: (qmail 35378 invoked by uid 501); 6 Apr 2000 20:10:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 20:10:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:10:08 -0300 (EST) From: Paulo Fragoso To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Cu-SeeME Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Are there any cuseeme reflector software for freebsd? Thanks, Paulo. -- __O _-\<,_ Why drive when you can bike? (_)/ (_) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 13:25:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC76737B8AF for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.9.2/8.9.2/SNNS-1.02) id VAA95617; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:13:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200004090213.VAA95617@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: flat network In-Reply-To: <38ECED38.421C71A7@nyi.net> from Javier Frias at "Apr 6, 2000 4: 2: 0 pm" To: javier@nyi.net (Javier Frias) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:13:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > i used to think like that.... we used to use cabletron switches > and one of their 8000 routers, just a test. OH MY GOD > those things never worked. we even had two cabletron engineers > here for 9 days. and even they couldn't get it to work right. > > we went back to cisco like crack whores after their pimp. > > so yes, cisco i snot perfect, am i hope a good contender comes > out , but so far, their products have worked as advertise, > and their support is next to none. > > true they are a bit overpriced, but with good reseller channels, you'll > be amazed. > i have gotten equipment for less than 1/3 as advertised. That's not too unusual. They've got to sell cheap to keep up with the competition. My current favorite switch (note: switch, not switch/router) happens to be the Foundry FastIron, nice sexy switch, but a bit pricey. Seems to do vlans correctly, which is useful in the event that you're feeding over a gigabit fiber or something :-) > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with OSPF you have > > exactly two ARP entries - and no need for the router to ARP for each virtual > > server. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is good, > > do the same test as above. The behaviour is O(1). > > very true. > as a side note, i think he meant 200 actual servers, not 200 vservers. Don't know. But I know I'd prefer to have 200 actual servers not each advertising 50 additional addresses (~= 10,000 ARP entries possible). The 200 ARP entries plus 10,000 routing table entries would be manageable for the worst-case OSPF implementation. The 10,000 ARP entries would overflow lots of crappier switch equipment. -- ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 13:52: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC18737C0EB for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ryugen@palaver.org) Received: from primo.bfm.org ([216.127.218.20]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:52:17 -0500 Received: from portapad.palaver.org (unverified [24.217.7.191]) by primo.bfm.org (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:51:31 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000406155000.00a87ae0@mail.palaver.org> X-Sender: rfisher@mail.palaver.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:51:00 -0500 To: Javier Frias From: Ryugen@palaver.org (Ryugen C. Fisher) Subject: Re: flat network Cc: Joe Greco , dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <38ECED38.421C71A7@nyi.net> References: <200004090128.UAA92724@aurora.sol.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:02 PM 4/6/00, Javier Frias wrote: >Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > I've had quite a bid different experience with vlans. > > > At least on catalyst switches. > > > > Don't talk to me about Catalyst switches. Not today. Cisco sucks. > > > >i used to think like that.... we used to use cabletron switches >and one of their 8000 routers, just a test. OH MY GOD >those things never worked. we even had two cabletron engineers >here for 9 days. and even they couldn't get it to work right. > >we went back to cisco like crack whores after their pimp. > >so yes, cisco i snot perfect, am i hope a good contender comes >out , but so far, their products have worked as advertise, >and their support is next to none. > >true they are a bit overpriced, but with good reseller channels, you'll >be amazed. >i have gotten equipment for less than 1/3 as advertised. > > > > > > with vlans, arp is reduced. ARP works by broadcasting a packet to all > > > hosts attached > > > to an Ethernet segment. Since a vlans virtually reduces the number of > > > hosts > > > on each "Ethernet Segment" or "vlan", the number of host an arp request > > > reaches > > > is smaller. > > > > You're not talking to an idiot. With routing protocols, ARP is reduced > > further, to the point where the only ARP traffic on the network is for the > > physical interfaces present on the network. > > > >i'm sorry if i made it look that way, i know your not ;) >just for the record, I in no way think you are an idiot. > >true, there are other ways, i never said vlans where the only answer. >but just a simple solution. > > > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with ARP you still > have > > the potential to have as many ARP entries as you do virtual > servers. If you > > would like a practical demonstration of why this is bad, go generate about > > 65,000 virtual servers on such a machine, and then ask for stuff from > all of > > them. Note the behaviour of the ARP cache on your routers and switches. > > The behaviour is O(N), and you are screwed when N exceeds the capacity of > > the ARP table on the device. God forbid you've more than one server on the > > net! > > > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with OSPF you have > > exactly two ARP entries - and no need for the router to ARP for each > virtual > > server. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is good, > > do the same test as above. The behaviour is O(1). > > > >very true. >as a side note, i think he meant 200 actual servers, not 200 vservers. > > > > > To move servers between facilities you need a flat network? you can move > > > vlans accross > > > switches. Plus, there are quite a large nmber of ways you can do this, > > > without > > > the need of a huge flat network. > > > > I wasn't proposing the creation of a huge flat network. My largest > > production network has a netmask of 0xfffffff0. I move servers between > > facilities with no problems, thanks to OSPF. Do a traceroute to both > > dns1.sol.net and dns2.sol.net, numbered right next to each other, for a > > trivial example. > > > >sorry, my misunderstanding. > > > > vlans also offer quite a big more security than a flat network. > > > crosstalk is almost eliminated. > > > > > > In the isp market, how some companies provide colocation > > > without giving a customer a separate vlan is beyond my comprehesion. > > > > Use a separate routed network. Broaden your horizons. > >i understand you reasoning. > > > -- > > ... Joe > > > > Did someone say 'Livingston' I must presume??? Ryugen, that "Old Frog" hisself Ryugen@palaver.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 15: 3:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4EB37BA41 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA80872; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200004062202.PAA80872@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: mppe in FBSD In-Reply-To: <200004031732.SAA05803@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Apr 3, 2000 06:32:01 pm" To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vigov@com2com.ru (vigov), freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian Somers writes: > > I'm using pptpd server under FBSD (PoPToP). It's working, but i > > haven't data encryption. But under Linux it working fine, there's a > > lot of patches for linux, as i understand i need in any module for > > kernel, but it's linux only, how can i port it to FBSD? > > I'm working on MPPC/MPPE for ppp(8) at the moment. Brian, where are you getting rc4.c from? I have a MPPC/MPPE netgraph node waiting to be committed but for there's no RC4 implementation in /sys/crypto yet. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 6 15:58:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE29F37C1C1 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: by super-g.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E42C3B418; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C98CDB416; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Javier Frias Cc: Joe Greco , dev@inetu.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flat network In-Reply-To: <38ECED38.421C71A7@nyi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, We just bought an "Extreme Networks" 48 port Summit switch/router. So far it's been wonderful, and the one bug we found was fixed in two weeks with a custom build of the code to hold us over until the next full version is released. As Joe stated, if you look at the router this thing is attached to, you see two arp entries for that interface, the router and the switch. That's it. These things are darn cheap too, 48 ports for about $4.8K and it is basically a router. You also get two bonus Gig-E ports for kicks. We used to run a building-wide access service on a layer-2 only switch that had some filtering by ethertype, and while it worked, it was yucky when people started trying to steal each other's addresses and whatnot. Now it looks more like a giant 48 port router. Would be nice for a colo setup as well. Can't take addresses outside your subnet-based vlan, no leakage across ports, etc. And the CLI is quite usable. Way cheaper than Cisco, about half of what 48 cabletron ports cost... A happy customer, Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- "...there's no idea that's so good you can't ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Javier Frias wrote: > Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > I've had quite a bid different experience with vlans. > > > At least on catalyst switches. > > > > Don't talk to me about Catalyst switches. Not today. Cisco sucks. > > > > i used to think like that.... we used to use cabletron switches > and one of their 8000 routers, just a test. OH MY GOD > those things never worked. we even had two cabletron engineers > here for 9 days. and even they couldn't get it to work right. > > we went back to cisco like crack whores after their pimp. > > so yes, cisco i snot perfect, am i hope a good contender comes > out , but so far, their products have worked as advertise, > and their support is next to none. > > true they are a bit overpriced, but with good reseller channels, you'll > be amazed. > i have gotten equipment for less than 1/3 as advertised. > > > > > > with vlans, arp is reduced. ARP works by broadcasting a packet to all > > > hosts attached > > > to an Ethernet segment. Since a vlans virtually reduces the number of > > > hosts > > > on each "Ethernet Segment" or "vlan", the number of host an arp request > > > reaches > > > is smaller. > > > > You're not talking to an idiot. With routing protocols, ARP is reduced > > further, to the point where the only ARP traffic on the network is for the > > physical interfaces present on the network. > > > > i'm sorry if i made it look that way, i know your not ;) > just for the record, I in no way think you are an idiot. > > true, there are other ways, i never said vlans where the only answer. > but just a simple solution. > > > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with ARP you still have > > the potential to have as many ARP entries as you do virtual servers. If you > > would like a practical demonstration of why this is bad, go generate about > > 65,000 virtual servers on such a machine, and then ask for stuff from all of > > them. Note the behaviour of the ARP cache on your routers and switches. > > The behaviour is O(N), and you are screwed when N exceeds the capacity of > > the ARP table on the device. God forbid you've more than one server on the > > net! > > > > If you have one router and one machine on a network, with OSPF you have > > exactly two ARP entries - and no need for the router to ARP for each virtual > > server. If you would like a practical demonstration of why this is good, > > do the same test as above. The behaviour is O(1). > > > > very true. > as a side note, i think he meant 200 actual servers, not 200 vservers. > > > > > To move servers between facilities you need a flat network? you can move > > > vlans accross > > > switches. Plus, there are quite a large nmber of ways you can do this, > > > without > > > the need of a huge flat network. > > > > I wasn't proposing the creation of a huge flat network. My largest > > production network has a netmask of 0xfffffff0. I move servers between > > facilities with no problems, thanks to OSPF. Do a traceroute to both > > dns1.sol.net and dns2.sol.net, numbered right next to each other, for a > > trivial example. > > > > sorry, my misunderstanding. > > > > vlans also offer quite a big more security than a flat network. > > > crosstalk is almost eliminated. > > > > > > In the isp market, how some companies provide colocation > > > without giving a customer a separate vlan is beyond my comprehesion. > > > > Use a separate routed network. Broaden your horizons. > > i understand you reasoning. > > > -- > > ... Joe > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > -- > MMM \|/ www __^__ > (o o) @ @ (O-O) /(o o)\ > -ooO-(_)-Ooo---oOO-(_)-OOo---oOO--(_)--OOo---oOO==(_)==OOo > > Javier A. Frias > Sr. System Administrator > > The New York Internet Company > 20 Exchange Place 21st Floor > New York, N.Y. 10005 > > > "Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance" > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 5: 7:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from internal.mail.demon.net (internal.mail.demon.net [193.195.224.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308B737B8D2 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 05:07:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: from fanf.eng.demon.net (fanf.eng.demon.net [195.11.55.89]) by internal.mail.demon.net with ESMTP id NAA01208; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:06:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from fanf by fanf.eng.demon.net with local (Exim 3.12 #3) id 12dXXD-0005UH-00; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:06:47 +0100 To: jgreco@ns.sol.net From: Tony Finch Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flat network In-Reply-To: <200004090128.UAA92724@aurora.sol.net> References: <38ECE636.CE86D01C@nyi.net> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:06:47 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joe Greco wrote: > >If you have one router and one machine on a network, with ARP you still have >the potential to have as many ARP entries as you do virtual servers. If you >would like a practical demonstration of why this is bad, go generate about >65,000 virtual servers on such a machine, and then ask for stuff from all of >them. Note the behaviour of the ARP cache on your routers and switches. >The behaviour is O(N), and you are screwed when N exceeds the capacity of >the ARP table on the device. God forbid you've more than one server on the >net! We put all our IP aliases on the loopback interface to avoid the ARP problem. The patch in PR#12071 is handy too. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@demon.net dot@dotat.at 397 tundra clump under-scrub To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 17:41:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from nlaredo.globalpc.net (nld2.globalpc.net [207.193.206.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4049337BC22 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Received: from ds9 (ds9.globalpc.net [207.193.204.57]) by nlaredo.globalpc.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA12465; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:42:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000407193209.00914830@globalpc.net> X-Sender: adrianbsd@globalpc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:32:09 -0500 To: Brian Somers , Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr From: Adrian Gonzalez Subject: Re: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try)) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004061746.SAA00494@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First off, thanks to all the people that replied. I've got PPP over UDP going now At 06:46 PM 4/6/00 +0100, Brian Somers wrote: >> Hello >> >> There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap way to aggregate bandwidth. >> >> Things to do : >> - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio link >> - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) > >ppp(8) does multi-link too. > >-- >Brian > >Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 17:41:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from nlaredo.globalpc.net (nld2.globalpc.net [207.193.206.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B22237BBC7 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Received: from ds9 (ds9.globalpc.net [207.193.204.57]) by nlaredo.globalpc.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA12474; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:42:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adrianbsd@globalpc.net) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000407193902.00913100@globalpc.net> X-Sender: adrianbsd@globalpc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:39:02 -0500 To: Brian Somers , Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr From: Adrian Gonzalez Subject: Re: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) ) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004061746.SAA00494@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First off, thanks to all the people who replied with suggestions. I've got PPP over UDP going now, however I'm having trouble getting it to establish the second link. Anybody have an example what both the client and server ppp.conf should look like for a multilink ppp over udp setup? I followed the ppp man page examples, but couldn't get the second link to work. -Adrian At 06:46 PM 4/6/00 +0100, Brian Somers wrote: >> Hello >> >> There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap way to aggregate bandwidth. >> >> Things to do : >> - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio link >> - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) > >ppp(8) does multi-link too. > >-- >Brian > >Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 17:59:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C506037BBEC for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29800; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:57:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05561; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:57:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004080057.BAA05561@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Adrian Gonzalez Cc: Brian Somers , Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Knight Subject: Re: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try)) In-Reply-To: Message from Adrian Gonzalez of "Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:32:09 CDT." <3.0.6.32.20000407193209.00914830@globalpc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 01:57:49 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > First off, thanks to all the people that replied. I've got PPP over UDP > going now Something you should be aware of about the current PPPoUDP implementation - it's possible for an attacker to insert arbitrary packets into your data stream (targeted at the ppp -direct side) as PPPoUDP doesn't insist on the peer address (recvfrom() sockaddr) staying the same. This is usually a bad thing. I've been discussing the writing of a UDP multiplexor with Mark Knight (cc'd) that can maintain multiple udp sessions in much the same way as you *might* want inetd to handle sessions. There may be a port appearing soon :-] > At 06:46 PM 4/6/00 +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > >> Hello > >> > >> There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up > a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap > way to aggregate bandwidth. > >> > >> Things to do : > >> - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio > link > >> - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) > > > >ppp(8) does multi-link too. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 18: 4:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC08437BEE2 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA30003; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 02:04:29 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05736; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 02:04:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004080104.CAA05736@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers), vigov@com2com.ru (vigov), freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.awfulhak.org Subject: Re: mppe in FBSD In-Reply-To: Message from Archie Cobbs of "Thu, 06 Apr 2000 15:02:41 PDT." <200004062202.PAA80872@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 02:04:23 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Brian Somers writes: > > > I'm using pptpd server under FBSD (PoPToP). It's working, but i > > > haven't data encryption. But under Linux it working fine, there's a > > > lot of patches for linux, as i understand i need in any module for > > > kernel, but it's linux only, how can i port it to FBSD? > > > > I'm working on MPPC/MPPE for ppp(8) at the moment. > > Brian, where are you getting rc4.c from? > > I have a MPPC/MPPE netgraph node waiting to be committed but > for there's no RC4 implementation in /sys/crypto yet. To be honest, I haven't gotten to this bit yet... but a quick ``locate'' makes lots of mention of rc4 things. Is the stuff in src/crypto/openssl/crypto/rc4 not the full monty ? > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 18: 4:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE7B37BC05 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29949; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 02:01:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05697; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 02:01:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004080101.CAA05697@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Adrian Gonzalez Cc: Brian Somers , Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Knight Subject: Re: multi-PPP over UDP ? (was Re: Bandwidth aggregation (second try) ) In-Reply-To: Message from Adrian Gonzalez of "Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:39:02 CDT." <3.0.6.32.20000407193902.00913100@globalpc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 02:00:59 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > First off, thanks to all the people who replied with suggestions. I've got > PPP over UDP going now, however I'm having trouble getting it to establish > the second link. Anybody have an example what both the client and server > ppp.conf should look like for a multilink ppp over udp setup? > > I followed the ppp man page examples, but couldn't get the second link to > work. Because of the nature of UDP, unless you've got two listening UDP ports, the ppp -direct side will end up with just one link talking to the two links on the client side. This is immensely confusing (it took me some time to figure out why it works.. and I wrote it!), and it is also why ppp -direct doesn't insist on the recvfrom()s all coming from the same peer sockaddr.... Roll on udpmux ! > -Adrian > > At 06:46 PM 4/6/00 +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > >> Hello > >> > >> There was a post by Brian Sommers (the PPP maintainer) about setting up > a multi-link PPP server with PPP transported via UDP. This would be a cheap > way to aggregate bandwidth. > >> > >> Things to do : > >> - set up a PPP link over UDP between your two offices, one on each radio > link > >> - aggregate the two links with MPD (must be in the ports ...) > > > >ppp(8) does multi-link too. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 7 21:36:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2414B37B831 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA30172; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200004080435.VAA30172@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: mppe in FBSD In-Reply-To: <200004080104.CAA05736@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Apr 8, 2000 02:04:23 am" To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs), vigov@com2com.ru (vigov), freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian Somers writes: > > Brian, where are you getting rc4.c from? > > > > I have a MPPC/MPPE netgraph node waiting to be committed but > > for there's no RC4 implementation in /sys/crypto yet. > > To be honest, I haven't gotten to this bit yet... but a quick > ``locate'' makes lots of mention of rc4 things. > > Is the stuff in src/crypto/openssl/crypto/rc4 not the full monty ? Good question.. I've been assuming that a version/copy of that file living under /usr/src/sys would be required.. do any other kernel bits compile in source files from outside of /usr/src/sys? Maybe it's not such a big deal to just go ahead and copy the same file into the kernel sources.. but then we have two copies. Probably better that way anyway, because many people compile kernels without having the full sources on hand. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 8 1: 9:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63FE37B67B for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA34145; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:08:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10089; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:08:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004080808.JAA10089@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers), vigov@com2com.ru (vigov), freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: mppe in FBSD In-Reply-To: Message from Archie Cobbs of "Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:35:47 PDT." <200004080435.VAA30172@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 09:08:13 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Brian Somers writes: > > > Brian, where are you getting rc4.c from? > > > > > > I have a MPPC/MPPE netgraph node waiting to be committed but > > > for there's no RC4 implementation in /sys/crypto yet. > > > > To be honest, I haven't gotten to this bit yet... but a quick > > ``locate'' makes lots of mention of rc4 things. > > > > Is the stuff in src/crypto/openssl/crypto/rc4 not the full monty ? > > Good question.. > > I've been assuming that a version/copy of that file living > under /usr/src/sys would be required.. do any other kernel > bits compile in source files from outside of /usr/src/sys? > > Maybe it's not such a big deal to just go ahead and copy the same > file into the kernel sources.. but then we have two copies. Probably > better that way anyway, because many people compile kernels without > having the full sources on hand. That's what's been done for things like slcompress and deflate (zlib), but I don't think it's the right thing to do - you may get opposition from -committers. I think it should maybe be held under src/sys/crypto and .PATH:'d from src/crypto so that (as you say) people with kernel sources don't get a half-missing implementation. I don't think it's possible or likely that anyone would ever want userland sources without kernel sources (IMHO anyway). This is probably non-trivial :-/ > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 8 2:19:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B9437B741 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 02:19:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA34447; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:19:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10458; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:19:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200004080919.KAA10458@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Paulo Fragoso Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: Cu-SeeME In-Reply-To: Message from Paulo Fragoso of "Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:10:08 -0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 10:19:28 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi, > > Are there any cuseeme reflector software for freebsd? Great, a victim^Wvolunteer ! I'm not sure what you mean by ``reflector'' software, but there's support in libalias. AFAIK it doesn't work though - I'm sure it's just a small bug waiting for someone to fix it :*] > Thanks, > Paulo. > > -- > __O > _-\<,_ Why drive when you can bike? > (_)/ (_) -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message