From owner-freebsd-java Sun Jul 30 10:44: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f227.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF9637B515 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:43:56 -0700 Received: from 209.220.228.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: tomcat-usr@jakarta.apache.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: tomcat + apache configuration Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:43:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2000 17:43:56.0713 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC3BE190:01BFFA4D] Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi everyone: The recommended test for a tomcat installation is to enter the following in a browser (I am using Netscape 4.73) http://localhost:8080/examples **** THIS WORKS! ***** but only when I run tomcat standalone. When running with apache, there is a conflict with port 8080 since apache uses port 8080 for some things (I think documenation, etc), so I comment out the tomcat http "connector" in server.xml (tomcat is suppose to use the AJPV12 "connector" for web-server integration, anyway -- and this is recommended in the tomcat user guide) Apache listens on port :80, but when I try: http://localhost:80/examples or even, http://localhost:8080/examples I get a "not found" error. I'm running on FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE. I have installed jdk1.2.2 and I have installed Apache 1.3.12 (with DSO) and I have installed tomcat 3.2-beta2 (binary). * I have verified that apache runs, * I have compiled the mod_jserv.so from the tomcat 3.1 sources, and placed it in the correct directory, * I have added "include /path/to/concat.conf" as the last line of httpd.conf, * I defined JAVA_HOME and put the path to the tools.jar (i.e. /usr/local/jdk1.2.2/lib) in my PATH. * I have started tomcat _before_ apache, (although I'm not sure that this is necessary since I am using the static config file) I am using the tomcat.conf, server.xml and web.xml files that came with tomcat except for two minor and necessary modifiations: * in tomcat.conf I needed to use the full path to mod_jserv.so * in server.xml I needed to comment out the httpd connector which uses port 8080 (apache uses the same port and was not starting while this was not commented out -- commenting this out is also recommended in the documentation) I have also tried using the dynamicly generated file: tomcat-apache.conf (remembering to include the full path to mod_jserv.so), but this doesn't help. When I start tomcat I get: # ./startup.sh Guessing TOMCAT_HOME from tomcat.sh to ./.. Setting TOMCAT_HOME to ./.. Using classpath: .:./../lib/ant.jar:./../lib/jasper.jar:./../lib/jaxp.jar:./../lib/parser.jar:./../lib/servlet.jar:./../lib/test:./../lib/webserver.jar:/usr/local/jdk1.2.2/lib/tools.jar wirelessmeridian# 2000-07-29 11:35:24 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /examples ) Starting tomcat. Check logs/tomcat.log for error messages 2000-07-29 11:35:24 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /admin ) 2000-07-29 11:35:24 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( ) 2000-07-29 11:35:24 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /test ) 2000-07-29 11:35:27 - PoolTcpConnector: Starting Ajp12ConnectionHandler on 8007 The log files look like this: $ cat jasper.log 2000-07-29 11:35:25 - Scratch dir for the JSP engine is: /usr/local/tomcat/work/localhost_8080%2Fexamples 2000-07-29 11:35:25 - IMPORTANT: Do not modify the generated servlets $ cat servlet.log 2000-07-29 11:35:25 - path="/examples" :jsp: init 2000-07-29 11:35:26 - path="/admin" :jsp: init 2000-07-29 11:35:26 - path="" :jsp: init 2000-07-29 11:35:26 - path="/test" :jsp: init What am I doing wrong in this configuration with Apache???? I have read and re-read the documentation and have even looked into some JSP books at the local bookstore to find some clues, but I can't seem to get tomcat to play nice with apache. I'm sure lots of folks have done this already. I would really, really appreciate a few hints. Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 9:31:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.research.kpn.com (hermes.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74F437BA6F for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by research.kpn.com (PMDF V5.2-31 #42699) with ESMTP id <01JSGRRV4E6W0004WW@research.kpn.com> for freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:31:38 +0200 Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:31:38 +0100 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:31:36 +0100 From: "Koster, K.J." Subject: RE: tomcat + apache configuration To: 'John Daniels' Cc: tomcat-usr@jakarta.apache.org, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D772F@l04.research.kpn.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello John, others, > > I'm sure lots of folks have done this already. I would > really, really appreciate a few hints. > I've put up a FreeBSD-specific howto on my Java porting pages. Have a look at: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/kjkoster/java/index.html Scroll the blue left bar to the bottom and click on "Packages". Other FreeBSD-Java folks, please have a look at that description too, and tell me how to improve it. Thanks in advance. Kees Jan ================================================= TV is the worst of both worlds. It's not as good at words as radio is because the pictures are a distraction which demand attention, and it's not as good as cinema because the pictures are not nearly as good. Douglas Adams To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 11: 4:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f49.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8C637C1BD for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:04:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:04:54 -0700 Received: from 209.220.228.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: K.J.Koster@kpn.com, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: RE: tomcat + apache configuration Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 14:04:54 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Aug 2000 18:04:54.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEE367C0:01BFFBE2] Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kees! You are terrific: your website is *such* a valuable resource. But I have two questions: 1) Do I have to compile Tomcat or can I use the binary? NOTE: Tomcat version 3.2 beta 2 is only available in binary (last time I checked). I am using 3.2b2 and I can run Tomcat standalone but I can't run with Apache. 2) Do I have to add "traditional" Jserv to Apache? (I would do this as a DSO via the mod_apache ports curtesy of Mr. Hetzel) This may be my key problem since I haven't run the mod_jserv port, all I did was compile mod_jserv.so from the Tomcat 3.1 sources and move it to the directory where apache expects it to be. Thanks again. John >Hello John, others, > > > > > I'm sure lots of folks have done this already. I would > > really, really appreciate a few hints. > > >I've put up a FreeBSD-specific howto on my Java porting pages. Have a look >at: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/kjkoster/java/index.html Scroll the blue >left bar to the bottom and click on "Packages". > >Other FreeBSD-Java folks, please have a look at that description too, and >tell me how to improve it. > >Thanks in advance. > > Kees Jan > >================================================= > TV is the worst of both worlds. It's not as > good at words as radio is because the pictures > are a distraction which demand attention, and > it's not as good as cinema because the pictures > are not nearly as good. > Douglas Adams ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 23:38:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23EA37B5BF for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:38:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19041 for freebsd-java@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:08:45 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008020638.QAA19041@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:08:45 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a new set of ALPHA source code patches for the JDK 1.2.2 source. These patches are unofficial and no abuse should be directed towards the FreeBSD java porting team for them :). This new set (patchset 10) can be gotten from http://www.eyesbeyond.com/freebsddom/java/jdk.html (this message is included in the downloadable tar ball as the file ANNOUNCEMENT). Note that the way the patchsets may be downloaded has changed to make sure they are fully compliant with the SCSL. I apologise for the added difficulty, but this is important. Note also the addition of a ChangeLog file so that the differences with the "standard" JDK code can be seen (this is also in the interests of SCSL compliancy). Please read the file THANKS for a list of the large number of people who should be thanked that things have gotten this far! The following ISSUES have been addressed since patchset 9 (see the ISSUES files for more details -- note that issues fixed since patchset 6 with no adverse affects reported have been removed). Issue 6. The DPS libraries included with XFree86 4.0 appear to be a viable alternative to DGS and are compatibly licensed. Thanks to Taguchi-san for pointing this out. There is more information contained in the FAQ. Issue 7a. Audio is now reported to be mostly working again. A big vote of thanks to Rob Furphy for tracking this down! Additional problems that hadn't made it to the ISSUES list that have been addressed in this patchset: 1. A working font.properties.ja file was provided by Daichi T.GOTO. 2. Fix a bug in the assembler version of the Java execution code which appeared under profiling on Pentium machines (thanks to Fuyuhiko Maruyama). 3. Implement CPU time profiling (thanks to Fuyuhiko Maruyama). 4. Build the internationalised (ext) source so that i18n.jar and iiimp.jar are available (thanks to Fuyuhiko Maruyama) For more information about the port, consult Kees Jan Koster's web pages at http://web.inter.nl.net/users/kjkoster/java/index.html Please test as much as possible! -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 23:42:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5EA437BF51 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19087 for freebsd-java@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:12:19 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008020642.QAA19087@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:12:19 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is an experimental set of source code patches desgined to provide JPDA (Java Platform Debugger Architecture) support in the FreeBSD JDK 1.2.2 patchsets. These patches are unofficial and no abuse should be directed towards the FreeBSD java porting team for them :). This set (patchset 1) can be gotten from http://www.eyesbeyond.com/freebsddom/java/jpda.html (this message is included in the downloadable tar ball as the file ANNOUNCEMENT). Note that the way the patchsets may be downloaded is as it is to make sure they are fully compliant with the SCSL. I apologise for the added difficulty, but this is important. Note also that the inclusion of a ChangeLog file is so that the differences with the "standard" JPDA code are documented (this is also in the interests of SCSL compliancy). This code is essentially untested and is provided so that interested developers and testers can evaluate it. Since it is so untested, the only issue I currently have with the code is the excessive makefile hackery that it uses to compile the bdi and front subdirectories. This _should_ _not_ be necessary. Hopefully someone more clueful about makefiles will spot the problem (which is one of the reasons to release the code now). -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 23:48:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F7237BFDE for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19109; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:13:58 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008020643.QAA19109@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 In-Reply-To: <200008020642.QAA19087@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> from Greg Lewis at "Aug 2, 2000 04:12:19 pm" To: Greg Lewis Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:13:58 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org D'oh! That subject should have said pre-alpha, not alpha as I haven't even tested this other than making sure it compiles and looks reasonable. Could someone with JBuilder please give this a whirl? Or tell me how I can maybe get a copy of JBuilder to do so? -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Aug 1 23:48:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A70E37C00E for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19129; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:18:32 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008020648.QAA19129@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 In-Reply-To: <200008020638.QAA19041@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> from Greg Lewis at "Aug 2, 2000 04:08:45 pm" To: Greg Lewis Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:18:32 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Following up my own mail _again_ :). This patchset introduces a new download method. Please let me know if there are any problems with it. If not, I will be disabling the old method (unless someone can show me that the old method is SCSL compliant). (Ernst, if you still want to mirror the patchsets, I'm happy to provide you with the web pages and cgi scripts that I'm using.) Obviously the pointers to the old distribution method from the FreeBSD Java site needs some updating, will submit a PR in a bit once I'm sure this is working for people. Also please note that while there are now some web pages, these are not meant to take over Kees Jan Koster's site, which is still the main site regarding the patchset. -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 1:50:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4D637C049 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.94]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15999 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:46:18 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA32110 for freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:50:45 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:50:45 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008020850.QAA32110@netrinsics.com> To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 In-Reply-To: <200008020642.QAA19087@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Might it not be a more efficient use of limited resources to try to keep FreeBSD Linux emulation up to the task of running the official Sun Linux releases? Since the latest 1.3 JDK beta mostly runs already on BSD, with dramatically improved HotSpot performance, it seems silly to keep on slugging through alpha releases of nearly-obsolete technology. Furthermore, any improvements to Linux emulation benefit not only Java users, but users of all the other binary-only software packages being released for Linux. -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 2: 3:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from c187104187.telekabel.chello.nl (c187104187.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.104.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED1D537C075 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 02:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernst@c187104187.telekabel.chello.nl) Received: (qmail 3951 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Aug 2000 09:03:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:03:07 +0200 From: Ernst de Haan To: Greg Lewis Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 Message-ID: <20000802110307.A3912@c187104187.telekabel.chello.nl> References: <200008020638.QAA19041@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> <200008020648.QAA19129@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200008020648.QAA19129@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au>; from glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au on Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 04:18:32PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Greg, Is it necessary to confirm that one agrees to the SCSL in order to download these patches? I assumed this was only necessary for the JDK 1.2 source download from Sun self? Personally I liked the old method better, I could just use `fetch' or `ftp', I even automated the process of downloading the new version and uploading it to the mirrors :-/ I would still like to keep up to date with the current patch set, but I do not have the ability to run CGI scripts on either of the 3 mirrors I provided. If a CGI script is the only solution then the FreeBSD JDK 1.2 patches just ran out of mirrors :( Ernst Greg Lewis wrote: > Following up my own mail _again_ :). This patchset introduces a new > download method. Please let me know if there are any problems with it. > If not, I will be disabling the old method (unless someone can show me > that the old method is SCSL compliant). (Ernst, if you still want to > mirror the patchsets, I'm happy to provide you with the web pages and > cgi scripts that I'm using.) Obviously the pointers to the old > distribution method from the FreeBSD Java site needs some updating, will > submit a PR in a bit once I'm sure this is working for people. > > Also please note that while there are now some web pages, these are not > meant to take over Kees Jan Koster's site, which is still the main site > regarding the patchset. > > -- > Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au > Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 > Teletraffic Research Centre > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 6:45:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hidrogenio.widesoft.com.br (hidrogenio.widesoft.com.br [200.246.206.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDDDD37B942; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mborges@widesoft.com.br) Received: from widesoft.com.br (bario.widesoft.com.br [200.246.206.56]) by hidrogenio.widesoft.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7EE91A88; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:45:36 -0300 (EST) Message-ID: <39882600.ABBA1EC9@widesoft.com.br> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:45:36 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Maur=EDcio?= de Barros Borges X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: JServ+Java2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am running a Web Site with FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE, Apache and Jserv. I have read in www.FreeBSD.org/java a message (January 30, 2000) mentioning that many people found some problems running JDK 1.2 + Jserv. Our production site is running Jserv+JDK 1.1.8 very well, but we are planning to upgrade it. However, I would like to know if such problems have been solved and if it is secure to upgrade it. If not, is there anybody there that runs a site with Free+Java2 ? If yes, what do you use as a servlet engine ? Sugestions are welcome... Thank you To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 7:47:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE52537B752 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22845; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:16:55 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008021446.AAA22845@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 In-Reply-To: <20000802110307.A3912@c187104187.telekabel.chello.nl> from Ernst de Haan at "Aug 2, 2000 11:03:07 am" To: Ernst de Haan Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:16:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: Greg Lewis , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Ernst, > Is it necessary to confirm that one agrees to the SCSL in order to > download these patches? I assumed this was only necessary for the JDK > 1.2 source download from Sun self? Personally I liked the old method > better, I could just use `fetch' or `ftp', I even automated the process > of downloading the new version and uploading it to the mirrors :-/ I think it is necessary sorry :(. Here is the relevant portion of the SCSL (paragraph 3.1(b)): "b) Source Code Availability. You agree to provide all Your Error Corrections to Original Contributor as soon as reasonably practicable and, in any event, prior to Internal Deployment Use or Commercial Use, if applicable. Original Contributor may, at its discretion, post Source Code for Your Error Corrections and Shared Modifications on the Community Webserver. You may also post Error Corrections and Shared Modifications on a web-server of Your choice; provided, that You must take reasonable precautions to ensure that only Licensees have access to such Error Corrections and Shared Modifications. Such precautions shall include, without limitation, a password protection scheme limited to Licensees and a click-on, download certification of Licensee status required of those attempting to download from the server. An example of an acceptable certification is attached as Attachment A-2." In particular the last three sentences. I am still not sure we are 100% compliant, but we are definitely much closer now. If somebody can convince me that either I am interpreting this incorrectly or that this section of the license doesn't apply to the patchsets, I'll gladly revert to the old method of downloading things. > I would still like to keep up to date with the current patch set, but I > do not have the ability to run CGI scripts on either of the 3 mirrors I > provided. If a CGI script is the only solution then the FreeBSD JDK 1.2 > patches just ran out of mirrors :( I understand, I knew that this sort of thing may happen :(. -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 8:23:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from mbg.sphere.ne.jp (mbg.sphere.ne.jp [203.138.71.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C13AD37BAF4 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from daichi@ongs.net) Received: from localhost (pl169.nas511.a-nagoya.nttpc.ne.jp [210.139.68.169]) by mbg.sphere.ne.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA06753; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:23:06 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:24:53 +0900 (JST) From: "Daichi T.GOTO" To: Greg Lewis Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-to: <200008020638.QAA19041@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJGYkOhsoQiAxLjAwMA==?= Organization: =?iso-2022-jp?B?T05HUyAbJEIzK0gvSXQbKEI=?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <84711508.965229893096.JavaMail.daichi@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Umm great! That works very fine :) > This is a new set of ALPHA source code patches for the JDK 1.2.2 source. > These patches are unofficial and no abuse should be directed towards the > FreeBSD java porting team for them :). This new set (patchset 10) can be > gotten from http://www.eyesbeyond.com/freebsddom/java/jdk.html (this > message is included in the downloadable tar ball as the file ANNOUNCEMENT). > (snip) > Please test as much as possible! I built JDK122 with patchset10. That works fine. Japanese support is very good. I can see Japanese charactor and input with XIM with this patch. But I think, patchset10 still has a sound problem? For example, demo/applets/{Animator, TicTacToe,JumpingBox}; simple sound application works fine without sound. And another application using sound dose works with sound error: Exception occurred during event dispatching: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/audio/HaeDevice at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:118) at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:97) at sun.audio.AudioPlayer$1.run(AudioPlayer.java:89) at sun.audio.ActionWrapper.run(AudioSecurity.java:128) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at sun.audio.AudioSecurity.doPrivileged(AudioSecurity.java:60) at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.getAudioPlayer(AudioPlayer.java:86) at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:67) at sun.audio.SunAudioClip.loop(SunAudioClip.java:78) at sun.applet.AppletAudioClip.loop(AppletAudioClip.java:208) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.playBGM(AudioPlayer.java:86) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.GView.pluginEnded(GView.java:371) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.GPlugin.firePluginEnded(GPlugin.java:88) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.DefaultOpening.mousePressed(DefaultOpening.java:145) at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:3159) at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:3001) at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:1011) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:2396) at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1056) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:2064) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:1842) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:1751) at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1043) at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:749) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:287) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEvent(EventDispatchThread.java:101) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:92) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:83) java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/audio/AudioPlayer at sun.applet.AppletAudioClip.stop(AppletAudioClip.java:214) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.stopBGM(AudioPlayer.java:144) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.setBGMFileName(AudioPlayer.java:116) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.GView.pluginEnded(GView.java:370) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.GPlugin.firePluginEnded(GPlugin.java:88) at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.DefaultOpening.mousePressed(DefaultOpening.java:145) at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:3159) at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:3001) at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:1011) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:2396) at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1056) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:2064) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:1842) at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:1751) at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1043) at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:749) at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:287) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEvent(EventDispatchThread.java:101) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:92) at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:83) Daichi T.GOTO(ONGS) http://www.ongs.net/daichi, daichi@ongs.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 8:23:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729E237B8E0 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA23161; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:53:18 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008021523.AAA23161@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 In-Reply-To: <200008020850.QAA32110@netrinsics.com> from Michael Robinson at "Aug 2, 2000 04:50:45 pm" To: Michael Robinson Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:53:18 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Michael, > Might it not be a more efficient use of limited resources to try to keep > FreeBSD Linux emulation up to the task of running the official Sun Linux > releases? > > Since the latest 1.3 JDK beta mostly runs already on BSD, with dramatically > improved HotSpot performance, it seems silly to keep on slugging through alpha > releases of nearly-obsolete technology. Furthermore, any improvements to > Linux emulation benefit not only Java users, but users of all the other > binary-only software packages being released for Linux. Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. I'm not quite sure how you can term the JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete" though when it is the current _release_ from Sun for both Linux and Solaris and when Blackdown have announced their final release of the JDK 1.2.2 (with 1.3 to come sometime down the track) on the same day. While I respect your opinion in regards to the Linux emulation, I obviously have a different one :). Certainly both the Linux JDK released by Blackdown (I've never gotten the official Sun 1.2.2 one to work) and the FreeBSD "linuxulator" are both excellent work. However, I would ask you to consider the following issues: (a) Since I would be using the Linux JDK, any use of JNI that I make requires that I build all the native code with the Linux development tools. For complex and large JNI using applications such as Swarm (www.swarm.org) this means having a large Linux installation and spending time dealing with any the Linux rpm and development tool issues that I thought I'd avoided by using FreeBSD. At this point I'd not only have a huge pain in the neck, I'd also be wondering why I didn't just install a Linux distro :(. (b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops during the 5.0 production cycle. Its everything you'd want and is perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of the JDK. (c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually like to spend it on a native JDK port :). Ok, so its late and I'm possibly not putting this as eloquently as I might, but my opinion is that although the ability to run the Linux JDK's under emulation is incredibly useful, ultimately only a native port will do :). -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 8:35:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from server.bloodletting.com (server.bloodletting.com [209.31.32.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FFFC37B8E0 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@accelica.com) Received: (qmail 59985 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2000 08:25:13 -0000 Received: from server.heavytech.com (HELO rust) (209.31.32.65) by server.bloodletting.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2000 08:25:13 -0000 From: "Nick Popoff" To: "Greg Lewis" , Subject: RE: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:30:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bffc96$8e99c7c0$0d42060a@rust.heavytech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <200008021523.AAA23161@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (a) Since I would be using the Linux JDK, any use of JNI that I make requires that I build all the native code with the Linux development tools. > (b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > during the 5.0 production cycle. These two are both outstanding points, and I think there should be a D as well: d) FreeBSD is too cool to merely "emulate" someone else's Java environment. :) Thanks for your great work on this Greg. I've been a big fan of FreeBSD for years as a developer, but recently have been scared that I would be forced to use Linux instead for my work due to poor Java support... please help me Obi Wan... you're my only hope... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 11:36:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from firewall.ox.com (firewall.ox.com [129.77.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7141C37B6E3 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcf@ox.com) Received: from firewall.ox.com (root@localhost) by firewall.ox.com with ESMTP id OAA15059 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pur-wk-rfurphy.ny.ox.com (pur-wk-rfurphy.ny.ox.com [129.77.2.133]) by firewall.ox.com with ESMTP id OAA15054 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ox.com (localhost.ny.ox.com [127.0.0.1]) by pur-wk-rfurphy.ny.ox.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA36459; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:36:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rcf@ox.com) Message-ID: <39886A20.4C881CD3@ox.com> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:36:16 -0400 From: Rob Furphy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.5-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daichi T.GOTO" Cc: Greg Lewis , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 patchset 10 References: <84711508.965229893096.JavaMail.daichi@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, The work I was able to do for the sound *fix* is this: I verified that patchset 5 was the last patchset with some semblance of sound working. I then did some testing and cleaning on the patchset5 version of the sound files and got them to a point where I could run the Java2D demo and hear *most* of the sound snippets work. There is a LOT of work that still needs to be done. I currently don't have the time to spare and am not a freebsd sound expert. Anyone who can, please feel free to contribute. Just finished building my patchset 10. Using the Java2D demo I can play '.rmf' and '.mid' files, the '.wav', '.aiff' and '.au' files do not work (as I expected). The ones that do play never stop playing properly on their own. I have much insight into why some of the other things don't work but not the time to fix them. This is essentially the state the Java2 port was in with patchset5. Looks like you have identified more work to be done... Rob F. "Daichi T.GOTO" wrote: > Umm great! That works very fine :) > > > This is a new set of ALPHA source code patches for the JDK 1.2.2 source. > > These patches are unofficial and no abuse should be directed towards the > > FreeBSD java porting team for them :). This new set (patchset 10) can be > > gotten from http://www.eyesbeyond.com/freebsddom/java/jdk.html (this > > message is included in the downloadable tar ball as the file ANNOUNCEMENT). > > (snip) > > Please test as much as possible! > > I built JDK122 with patchset10. That works fine. Japanese support is very good. > I can see Japanese charactor and input with XIM with this patch. > > But I think, patchset10 still has a sound problem? For example, demo/applets/{Animator, > TicTacToe,JumpingBox}; simple sound application works fine without sound. > And another application using sound dose works with sound error: > > Exception occurred during event dispatching: > java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/audio/HaeDevice > at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:118) > at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:97) > at sun.audio.AudioPlayer$1.run(AudioPlayer.java:89) > at sun.audio.ActionWrapper.run(AudioSecurity.java:128) > at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) > at sun.audio.AudioSecurity.doPrivileged(AudioSecurity.java:60) > at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.getAudioPlayer(AudioPlayer.java:86) > at sun.audio.AudioPlayer.(AudioPlayer.java:67) > at sun.audio.SunAudioClip.loop(SunAudioClip.java:78) > at sun.applet.AppletAudioClip.loop(AppletAudioClip.java:208) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.playBGM(AudioPlayer.java:86) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.GView.pluginEnded(GView.java:371) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.GPlugin.firePluginEnded(GPlugin.java:88) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.DefaultOpening.mousePressed(DefaultOpening.java:145) > at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:3159) > at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:3001) > at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:1011) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:2396) > at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1056) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:2064) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:1842) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:1751) > at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1043) > at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:749) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) > at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:287) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEvent(EventDispatchThread.java:101) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:92) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:83) > > java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/audio/AudioPlayer > at sun.applet.AppletAudioClip.stop(AppletAudioClip.java:214) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.stopBGM(AudioPlayer.java:144) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.AudioPlayer.setBGMFileName(AudioPlayer.java:116) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gview.GView.pluginEnded(GView.java:370) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.GPlugin.firePluginEnded(GPlugin.java:88) > at jp.gr.java_conf.wffm.gassan.view.plugin.DefaultOpening.mousePressed(DefaultOpening.java:145) > at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:3159) > at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:3001) > at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:1011) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:2396) > at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1056) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:2064) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:1842) > at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:1751) > at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1043) > at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:749) > at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:2309) > at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:287) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEvent(EventDispatchThread.java:101) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:92) > at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:83) > > Daichi T.GOTO(ONGS) > http://www.ongs.net/daichi, daichi@ongs.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 18:54:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from www.kpi.com.au (www.kpi.com.au [203.39.132.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7949037B531; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shevlandj@kpi.com.au) Received: from grail (www.kpi.com.au [203.39.132.210]) by www.kpi.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA37590; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:57:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from shevlandj@kpi.com.au) From: "Joe Shevland" To: "Mauricio de Barros Borges" , , Subject: RE: JServ+Java2 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:57:38 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <39882600.ABBA1EC9@widesoft.com.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There was a previous problem with the JDK 1.2.2 port on FreeBSD that = stopped socket communications from working properly, but this was fixed = some time ago. I believe this is the only problem that affected JServ; = I'm running Apache 1.3.12/SSL/Tomcat 3.1 with no problems at all now, = both with the JDK1.1.8 on the production box and JDK1.2.2-patchset-9 on = the dev box. (Well the only problem on the production box is that more = and more things require Java2 now, so I've had to do some tricks to keep = these apps going). Regards, Joe >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Mauricio de Barros >Borges >Sent: Wednesday, 2 August 2000 11:46 PM >To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: JServ+Java2 > > > I am running a Web Site with FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE, Apache and Jserv. >I have read in www.FreeBSD.org/java a message (January 30, 2000) >mentioning >that many people found some problems running JDK 1.2 + Jserv. Our >production >site is running Jserv+JDK 1.1.8 very well, but we are planning to >upgrade it. However, I would like to know if such problems have been >solved and if it >is secure to upgrade it. If not, is there anybody there that runs a = site >with Free+Java2 ? If yes, what do you use as a servlet engine ? >Sugestions are welcome... > > Thank you > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 21:23:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FAC37B606 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA30354; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:53:08 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008030423.NAA30354@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 In-Reply-To: <000001bffc96$8e99c7c0$0d42060a@rust.heavytech.com> from Nick Popoff at "Aug 2, 2000 08:30:15 am" To: Nick Popoff Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:53:08 +0930 (CST) Cc: Greg Lewis , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nick Popoff wrote: > (a) Since I would be using the Linux JDK, any use of JNI that I make > requires > that I build all the native code with the Linux development tools. > > > (b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > > during the 5.0 production cycle. > > These two are both outstanding points, and I think there should be a D as > well: > > d) FreeBSD is too cool to merely "emulate" someone else's Java environment. > :) *grin* > Thanks for your great work on this Greg. I've been a big fan of FreeBSD for > years as a developer, but recently have been scared that I would be forced > to use Linux instead for my work due to poor Java support... please help me > Obi Wan... you're my only hope... Thanks, but didn't Obi Wan die in that movie :-) -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 22:11:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4762637B5D0 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:11:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21469 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:07:28 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00745; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:12:29 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:12:29 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008030512.NAA00745@netrinsics.com> To: glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au, robinson@netrinsics.com Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200008021523.AAA23161@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Aug 2 23:36:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407C837B729 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06217 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:32:37 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00807; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:37:36 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:37:36 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lewis writes: >Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could >probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of >the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. Let me quote: "October 11, 1999: Work has re-started on the Java2/JDK1.2 port. Expect an early 'alpha' release in the coming weeks for FreeBSD 3.3-stable/ELF boxes." 10 months in alpha, who knows how many more months in beta, and then a release, after which the whole process starts all over again for 1.3. Meanwhile, right now, today, I can use the Sun release of 1.3 for Linux to do everthing I need to do. What I can't do, though, is use HotSpot, because it breaks under Linux emulation. However, since the FreeBSD team doesn't have any access to the HotSpot code, any plans for access to the HotSpot code, or any ideas for plans for access to the HotSpot code, this means that the Linux JDK on FreeBSD today is just as good as the FreeBSD JDK will be sometime in the year 2002. Do you have any idea what that means, in Internet time? >I'm not quite sure how you can term the JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete" >though when it is the current _release_ from Sun for both Linux and >Solaris and when Blackdown have announced their final release of the >JDK 1.2.2 (with 1.3 to come sometime down the track) on the same day. Download Together 4.0, run it under 1.2.2, and then run it under 1.3 with the client-tuned HotSpot engine. Then you will be quite sure how I can term JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete". Likewise Enhydra with the server-tuned HotSpot engine. For real world technology managers making real-world deployment decisions, very soon the choice will be between running slow-slow-slow Java on FreeBSD or running fast-fast-fast Java on Linux. I've been a BSD user since 1984, but as a CTO, I know which decision I'll make if it comes down to that. >However, I would ask you to consider the following issues: > >(a) At this point > I'd not only have a huge pain in the neck, I'd also be wondering > why I didn't just install a Linux distro :(. I have to face that question every day, and not just for Java. Oracle, Domino, SMP, etc. etc. >(b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > during the 5.0 production cycle. Let's say the tooth fairy comes and debugs all my code for me while I'm sleeping. But I digress... > Its everything you'd want and is > perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But > alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of > the JDK. Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing this issue. Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, no less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. Either the FreeBSD Linux emulation will have to address this (assuming FreeBSD ever gets "an excellent kernel thread interface"), or FreeBSD will become "the network appliance OS". (There is, of course, the third alternative, that FreeBSD earns the kind of ISV support that Linux enjoys, but that's not really in the cards, now, is it.) >(c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The > volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on > the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually > like to spend it on a native JDK port :). This, of course, is indisputable. After all, you can still find volunteers writing code for the Amiga. But that raises another issue: if a tree writes software in the woods and no one uses it, does it make a sound? FreeBSD is dangerously close to falling into the Amiga death spiral. If it weren't for the excellent Linux emulation, it would already be there. The two biggest issues currently sucking FreeBSD down are SMP and Java. In my opinion, FreeBSD is far closer to solving the Java issue through emulation than it is through writing a native port. I'm not asking for something for nothing, either. $6k/seat for Together, $15k/server for WebLogic, the Oracle gouge, and it all starts to add up. Red Hat charges $2,500 for their Linux Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i. It's a small part of the budget, and if there were a FreeBSD Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i, I'd write the check tomorrow. But there isn't, so I can't. I can only wait for BSDi to figure out the 1980's are over, or try to influence the volunteers, or give up and jump ship. Today, I'm working plan B. -Michael "tough love" Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 1:10:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E0737B566 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 01:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA33079; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:40:10 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008030810.RAA33079@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> from Michael Robinson at "Aug 3, 2000 02:37:36 pm" To: Michael Robinson Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:40:10 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Robinson wrote: > Greg Lewis writes: > >Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could > >probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of > >the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. > > Let me quote: > > "October 11, 1999: Work has re-started on the Java2/JDK1.2 port. Expect > an early 'alpha' release in the coming weeks for FreeBSD 3.3-stable/ELF > boxes." > > 10 months in alpha, who knows how many more months in beta, and then a > release, after which the whole process starts all over again for 1.3. I can only answer from a personal perspective here. The patchsets I am releasing are unofficial. The quote you have is from the official FreeBSD Java pages. In terms of my involvement: March 22nd, 2000: First pre-alpha patchset. April 28th, 2000: First alpha patchset. I feel the port is now stable enough for most people's needs. Although others may wish to correct me on this. > Meanwhile, right now, today, I can use the Sun release of 1.3 for Linux to > do everthing I need to do. What I can't do, though, is use HotSpot, because > it breaks under Linux emulation. However, since the FreeBSD team doesn't > have any access to the HotSpot code, any plans for access to the HotSpot > code, or any ideas for plans for access to the HotSpot code, this means that > the Linux JDK on FreeBSD today is just as good as the FreeBSD JDK will be > sometime in the year 2002. I believe that Sun have released the HotSpot code under the SCSL, as they did the JDK 1.2.2, so it should be relatively easy to obtain access to it. However, Sun have only released a beta version of the JDK 1.3 code so far. I don't intend to start a porting effort in earnest for 1.3 until Sun release non-beta code for it, otherwise I waste time fixing bugs which they've already fixed. > Do you have any idea what that means, in Internet time? Yes, and clearly the hold up with 1.2 has been somewhat expensive in terms of both peoples perceptions and their frustration levels. We obviously have different ideas on how to "fix" things though. > >I'm not quite sure how you can term the JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete" > >though when it is the current _release_ from Sun for both Linux and > >Solaris and when Blackdown have announced their final release of the > >JDK 1.2.2 (with 1.3 to come sometime down the track) on the same day. > > Download Together 4.0, run it under 1.2.2, and then run it under 1.3 with > the client-tuned HotSpot engine. Then you will be quite sure how I can > term JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete". Likewise Enhydra with the server-tuned > HotSpot engine. I appreciate that 1.3 is quite an increase in speed, but it still only comes as a release version for Windows and 1.2.2 is _still_ the official release for Solaris and Linux. > For real world technology managers making real-world deployment decisions, > very soon the choice will be between running slow-slow-slow Java on > FreeBSD or running fast-fast-fast Java on Linux. Which is one of the reasons I and the other people involved have been trying to push the Java porting effort ahead. > I've been a BSD user since 1984, but as a CTO, I know which decision I'll make > if it comes down to that. > > >However, I would ask you to consider the following issues: > > > >(a) At this point > > I'd not only have a huge pain in the neck, I'd also be wondering > > why I didn't just install a Linux distro :(. > > I have to face that question every day, and not just for Java. Oracle, > Domino, SMP, etc. etc. Right, and my choice when faced with that question was to try and improve the FreeBSD support for Java. As a CTO you obviously have different considerations and rigid deadlines to face, so I can understand why your choice may be different. But, improving Linux emulation is not going to contribute towards solving the problems with developing a complex JNI using application. Sure, it will help Oracle etc., but that isn't the problem I'm trying to solve. > >(b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > > during the 5.0 production cycle. > > Let's say the tooth fairy comes and debugs all my code for me while I'm > sleeping. But I digress... And yet, Peter Wemm committed a simple kernel thread interface using rfork() the other day :). > > Its everything you'd want and is > > perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But > > alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of > > the JDK. > > Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the > mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing > this issue. Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, > no less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. Either the > FreeBSD Linux emulation will have to address this (assuming FreeBSD ever gets > "an excellent kernel thread interface"), or FreeBSD will become "the network > appliance OS". (There is, of course, the third alternative, that FreeBSD > earns the kind of ISV support that Linux enjoys, but that's not really in > the cards, now, is it.) I think this is something for either BSDi or the advocacy mailing list to answer :). > >(c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The > > volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on > > the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually > > like to spend it on a native JDK port :). > > This, of course, is indisputable. After all, you can still find > volunteers writing code for the Amiga. But that raises another issue: > if a tree writes software in the woods and no one uses it, does it make a > sound? > > FreeBSD is dangerously close to falling into the Amiga death spiral. If it > weren't for the excellent Linux emulation, it would already be there. The > two biggest issues currently sucking FreeBSD down are SMP and Java. In my > opinion, FreeBSD is far closer to solving the Java issue through emulation > than it is through writing a native port. See above. Emulation solves some of the Java issues (particularly for people using it for JSP work and the like) but not all of them. In particular, it doesn't solve the one which bugs me :). Personally, I think there is a place for both approaches and that people will gravitate to whichever one they feel most comfortable with or solves their particular beef (I know I've seen some Linux emulator patches posted to freebsd-java, so there are certainly folk motivated to fix things up via the emulation route). > I'm not asking for something for nothing, either. $6k/seat for Together, > $15k/server for WebLogic, the Oracle gouge, and it all starts to add up. > Red Hat charges $2,500 for their Linux Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i. > It's a small part of the budget, and if there were a FreeBSD Enterprise > Edition for Oracle 8i, I'd write the check tomorrow. But there isn't, > so I can't. I can only wait for BSDi to figure out the 1980's are over, > or try to influence the volunteers, or give up and jump ship. Today, > I'm working plan B. I honestly wish you every success with both plan's A and B. From my own point of view I feel I've much more to contribute to the FreeBSD project by working on the native JDK port than I do working on the Linux emulator (I don't even have access to a Linux box for starters). I don't believe that this is currently a "head in the sand" attitude, I'm just making the choice to take the approach I think is right and see where it leads. -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 2: 0: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D9D37B82E for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 02:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21232 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:56:02 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01166; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:00:45 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:00:45 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008030900.RAA01166@netrinsics.com> To: glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au, robinson@netrinsics.com Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200008030810.RAA33079@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lewis writes: >I believe that Sun have released the HotSpot code under the SCSL, as they >did the JDK 1.2.2, so it should be relatively easy to obtain access to it. Let me quote: "Install a JIT The current port does not have a just in time compiler. It would be very hard to port this compiler, since the source code is not open under Sun's community source license. As a result, the default JIT is set to NONE. This will explain the dreadful performance you are seeing. It seems that the Blackdown team eventually got access to the source code of Sun's just in time compiler under a special license. It would be very, very cool if the someone could get Sun to do the same for us. We need a brilliant idea how to get Sun to cooperate on this one." That's from Kees Jan Koster's page on building the native FreeBSD JDK 1.2.2, last modified Wednesday, 02-Aug-00 16:07:38 GMT. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/kjkoster/java/content/howto.html#hd03 So, my best information is that the FreeBSD team does not have an idea for a plan for how to get access to the HotSpot code in JDK 1.3. Of course, I may be misinformed. >From my own >point of view I feel I've much more to contribute to the FreeBSD project >by working on the native JDK port than I do working on the Linux >emulator (I don't even have access to a Linux box for starters). I don't >believe that this is currently a "head in the sand" attitude, I'm just >making the choice to take the approach I think is right and see where >it leads. I understand and respect that. I also appreciate the effort you have put into the project. However, I also understand that you are only one person, and not even the "FreeBSD Project Lead for Java". Hopefully others here appreciate all the issues as well as you do. -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 5: 6: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 224A837B6F4 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wolpert@methodsystems.com) Received: (qmail 83662 invoked by alias); 3 Aug 2000 12:06:02 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 83632 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 2000 12:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO osti.methodsystems.com) (63.227.49.195) by dnvrpop4.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2000 12:06:01 -0000 Content-Length: 901 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200008030810.RAA33079@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 06:06:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Edward Wolpert To: Greg Lewis Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Robinson Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Also, Sun uses Java 1.2.1_04 internally... in the enterprise services group. Not even 1.2.2. On 03-Aug-00 Greg Lewis wrote: > > I appreciate that 1.3 is quite an increase in speed, but it still only > comes as a release version for Windows and 1.2.2 is _still_ the official > release for Solaris and Linux. > Virtually, | Open/Web Systems Architect Edward Wolpert | 4eb8 4e75 | "Java. It's not just for ___________________________________________/ breakfast anymore. " -anon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBOYlgKa2tQW/xJRRFAQEGxAL9FB3+Cp2nV2/7xWpVdbRiZ77Gkfs/HEGq TDoIdjMBe2hT19cNE3MUpv+2lqxwBwGHjo2whWEjFYVX20YswNXVKrbquM0ximtq LZ8iL50cnECE1kDj0Nu7h9medlzINT/j =QEdC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 5:42:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912BF37B8EA for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13096 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:38:19 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02167 for freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:42:50 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:42:50 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008031242.UAA02167@netrinsics.com> To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Also, Sun uses Java 1.2.1_04 internally... in the enterprise services >group. Not even 1.2.2. And when they need their enterprise services to go a little bit faster, they just toss a few more processor modules into the Starfire. It must be nice to have as much hardware as you need to throw at your problems. -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 5:56:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net [206.196.128.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E7BD937B663 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wolpert@methodsystems.com) Received: (qmail 46407 invoked by alias); 3 Aug 2000 12:56:03 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 46347 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 2000 12:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO osti.methodsystems.com) (63.227.49.195) by dnvrpop2.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2000 12:56:02 -0000 Content-Length: 2100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200008031242.UAA02167@netrinsics.com> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 06:56:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Edward Wolpert To: Michael Robinson Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Actually, they allocate more processors on the e10k's, but that's a different story. ;-) They _are_ a hardware shop, afterall... (Sun deals with stability, jdk1.3 isn't as stable yet as 1.2.1. That's why it's beta on Solaris and linux.) FYI, how much speed are you talking about? Most applications (web and other non-gui) don't use what's currently available. If you're hitting a wall, you may need a more distributed architecture. If you're writing Quake in Java, there's a big wall... One more point, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) this list is for native ports of the Java VM's to FreeBSD. I think there is a different mailing list for the linux emulation. (freebsd-emulation) I do emulate the jdk1.3 port for certain builds myself, (jBoss can only be built using jdk1.3, but runs fine under java1.2.2p9). Personally, I'd rather help the group get Java 1.2.2 working anyways, rather than skip to Java 1.3. Let the linux folks help sun workout some of the 1.3 bugs before we try. ;-) On 03-Aug-00 Michael Robinson wrote: >>Also, Sun uses Java 1.2.1_04 internally... in the enterprise services >>group. Not even 1.2.2. > > And when they need their enterprise services to go a little bit faster, they > just toss a few more processor modules into the Starfire. It must be nice > to have as much hardware as you need to throw at your problems. > > -Michael Robinson > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message Virtually, | Open/Web Systems Architect Edward Wolpert | 4eb8 4e75 | "Java. It's not just for ___________________________________________/ breakfast anymore. " -anon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBOYlr4q2tQW/xJRRFAQGYAgMAgnBoTtKh4sE8EOgaHwIw9HaOjIXqHiot Ll2OTI/RiVoUvkwvwo21gxn0+YzCVk9uffz8WqU0LRXR3Fw6j3egljtTPyii/FWq aOoQFvL7xOZ618PYpZgvJIFaeowHVpUA =gORV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 7:46:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDD537B9DD for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:46:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12069; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29656; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008031445.IAA29656@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Robinson Cc: glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200008030900.RAA01166@netrinsics.com> References: <200008030810.RAA33079@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> <200008030900.RAA01166@netrinsics.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So, my best information is that the FreeBSD team does not have an idea for > a plan for how to get access to the HotSpot code in JDK 1.3. > > Of course, I may be misinformed. You must be. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 8:17:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4327D37B905 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12052; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29638; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008031443.IAA29638@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Robinson Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) In-Reply-To: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> References: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could > >probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of > >the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. > > Let me quote: > > "October 11, 1999: Work has re-started on the Java2/JDK1.2 port. Expect > an early 'alpha' release in the coming weeks for FreeBSD 3.3-stable/ELF > boxes." > > 10 months in alpha, who knows how many more months in beta, and then a > release, after which the whole process starts all over again for 1.3. Actually, the re-start died in it's infancy until Greg picked it up when I got a new job. > Meanwhile, right now, today, I can use the Sun release of 1.3 for Linux to > do everthing I need to do. What I can't do, though, is use HotSpot, because > it breaks under Linux emulation. > However, since the FreeBSD team doesn't > have any access to the HotSpot code, any plans for access to the HotSpot > code, or any ideas for plans for access to the HotSpot code, this means that > the Linux JDK on FreeBSD today is just as good as the FreeBSD JDK will be > sometime in the year 2002. That's FUD. Sun intends to give us access to everything the Linux folks have. The problem at this point is paperwork, and I'm yelling again at the BSDi folks to help me out here. (Just sent an email off a few minutes ago0> > For real world technology managers making real-world deployment decisions, > very soon the choice will be between running slow-slow-slow Java on > FreeBSD or running fast-fast-fast Java on Linux. Or running even faster on NT, or Solaris. :( > >(b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > > during the 5.0 production cycle. > > Let's say the tooth fairy comes and debugs all my code for me while I'm > sleeping. But I digress... No, he's serious. Currently FreeBSD is working on an implementation of 'real scalable' kernel threads. This is not to be confused with the current kernel threads implementation that are used in Linux, and emulated by FreeBSD quite well. These actually scale, and will allow FreeBSD to scale much better than Linux does. (See recent benchmarks why the current threading model doesn't work well, or any threading paper). > > Its everything you'd want and is > > perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But > > alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of > > the JDK. > > Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the > mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing > this issue. ??? You don't understand. It can't do JNI simply because the JVM is responsible for doing the mapping. The emulator folks can't be expected to go off and figure out exactly what the emulator is doing w/regards. If you're the CTO and expect this, then maybe it's time to go find a replacement. :) > Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, no > less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. You and I have a much definition for 'reasonable scalability'. If you had a Java program with 8 threads in it written with very little contention, you would *never* see 8X performance. You might get 2X, or possibly 2.5X on a good day with a tail-wind. However, on Solaris, you'd get 4-6X, maybe 7X is your application really was written well. That's 'reasonable' scalability. > >(c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The > > volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on > > the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually > > like to spend it on a native JDK port :). > > This, of course, is indisputable. After all, you can still find > volunteers writing code for the Amiga. But that raises another issue: > if a tree writes software in the woods and no one uses it, does it make a > sound? > FreeBSD is dangerously close to falling into the Amiga death spiral. Ahh, now we're down the brass tacks. Everyone take note. Imminent death of FreeBSD soon to be expected. Quick, run away, run away. :) :) > If it weren't for the excellent Linux emulation, it would already be > there. The two biggest issues currently sucking FreeBSD down are SMP > and Java. SMP is certainly big, but we're not competing against Linux, but against NT and Win2K there. Currently both kick our butts in 'real' usage on SMP hardware, the evangelists not-withstanding. However, methinks you're a wee bit over the top with Java. Java is not *nearly* as big as it was a couple years back. Sun screwed the pooch with it's licensing issue, and Java 1.3 is still not supported well on most platforms. Heck, for that matter, only *two* platforms have a usable/stable JDK1.3 platform (and Linux isn't one of them, although it has a 'beta' quality release). Java is but one *minor* piece of the puzzle, which you tend to focus on since it's your job. (And, in case you're wondering, I lead the team in the JDK1.1 port from 1.1.4 and have been making my living as a Java programmer for nearly 5 years now, since the JDK1.0 days). > In my opinion, FreeBSD is far closer to solving the Java issue through > emulation than it is through writing a native port. You don't have all the facts available to you. > so I can't. I can only wait for BSDi to figure out the 1980's are over, > or try to influence the volunteers, or give up and jump ship. You're doing a darn good job of 'influencing' the volunteers, but I doubt it's having the desired effect. Note that other 'vendors' are doing a much better job of influence, by providing resources and encouragement, not bitching and moaning. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 8:31:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from lodge.guild.ab.ca (lodge.guild.ab.ca [209.91.118.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C74637B9D8 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davidc@lodge.guild.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by lodge.guild.ab.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA39396; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:31:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:31:01 -0600 From: Chad David To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) Message-ID: <20000803093101.A39367@lodge.guild.ab.ca> References: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> <200008031443.IAA29638@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200008031443.IAA29638@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:43:00AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > However, methinks you're a wee bit over the top with Java. Java is not > *nearly* as big as it was a couple years back. Sun screwed the pooch > with it's licensing issue, and Java 1.3 is still not supported well on > most platforms. Heck, for that matter, only *two* platforms have a > usable/stable JDK1.3 platform (and Linux isn't one of them, although it > has a 'beta' quality release). Is there a problem with the IBM 1.3 jdk on Linux. I don't use it, but a number of the developers here seem to like it... just wondering. Chad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 8:34:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215EB37BA1D for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12305; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:34:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29957; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008031534.JAA29957@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Chad David Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) In-Reply-To: <20000803093101.A39367@lodge.guild.ab.ca> References: <200008030637.OAA00807@netrinsics.com> <200008031443.IAA29638@nomad.yogotech.com> <20000803093101.A39367@lodge.guild.ab.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > However, methinks you're a wee bit over the top with Java. Java is not > > *nearly* as big as it was a couple years back. Sun screwed the pooch > > with it's licensing issue, and Java 1.3 is still not supported well on > > most platforms. Heck, for that matter, only *two* platforms have a > > usable/stable JDK1.3 platform (and Linux isn't one of them, although it > > has a 'beta' quality release). > > Is there a problem with the IBM 1.3 jdk on Linux. I don't use it, but a > number of the developers here seem to like it... just wondering. IBM doesn't 'support' it AFAIK. It's more of a technology release than a supported product, and last I looked, they can make you quit using it at any time via their licensing scheme. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 8:49:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.research.kpn.com (hermes.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DBC37B60F for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by research.kpn.com (PMDF V5.2-31 #42699) with ESMTP id <01JSJIVXQDZM0005Y5@research.kpn.com> for freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:49:12 +0200 Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 03 Aug 2000 17:49:12 +0100 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 17:49:05 +0100 From: "Koster, K.J." Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD To: 'Michael Robinson' Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D773A@l04.research.kpn.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Michael, First, I would like to add a little oil to the fire by stating that for server-side Java, there is hardly a difference if you use 1.2.2 or 1.3b. 1.3b's strengths are much improved Swing support. > > That's from Kees Jan Koster's page on building the native > FreeBSD JDK 1.2.2, last modified Wednesday, 02-Aug-00 > 16:07:38 GMT. > Too bad the modification time is not a per-paragraph thing. Thank you for pointing out this obvious blunder in my text. I will correct it as soon as possible. I apologize for my misleading text, and for the resulting confusion. > > So, my best information is that the FreeBSD team does not > have an idea for a plan for how to get access to the > HotSpot code in JDK 1.3. > In fact, Sun has signed an agreement with BSDi that gives them access to (among other goodies) the HotSpot sources. Since BSDi has merged with Walnut Creek CDROM, which in turn has historically been FreeBSD's sugar daddy, FreeBSD developers have access to the HotSpot sources. (if you're still with me) > > I understand and respect that. I also appreciate the > effort you have put into the project. However, I also > understand that you are only one person, and not even the > "FreeBSD Project Lead for Java". Hopefully others here > appreciate all the issues as well as you do. > Greg is only one person, and indeed not even FreeBSD Java lead. Technically, your observations are correct. However, Greg is the most active member of what could be loosely called a FreeBSD Java porting team. He has rallied most of the FreeBSD/Java enthousiasts behind him. In practice, Greg is the man. 'Nuff said. Kees Jan ================================================= TV is the worst of both worlds. It's not as good at words as radio is because the pictures are a distraction which demand attention, and it's not as good as cinema because the pictures are not nearly as good. Douglas Adams To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 8:57:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4197537B581 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12429; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:57:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00295; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008031557.JAA00295@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Koster, K.J." Cc: "'Michael Robinson'" , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D773A@l04.research.kpn.com> References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D773A@l04.research.kpn.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I understand and respect that. I also appreciate the > > effort you have put into the project. However, I also > > understand that you are only one person, and not even the > > "FreeBSD Project Lead for Java". Hopefully others here > > appreciate all the issues as well as you do. > > Greg is only one person, and indeed not even FreeBSD Java lead. Technically, > your observations are correct. That would be my title, I guess. :) > However, Greg is the most active member of what could be loosely called a > FreeBSD Java porting team. He has rallied most of the FreeBSD/Java > enthousiasts behind him. In practice, Greg is the man. 'Nuff said. As the self-annointed lead, I would agree with this. I have done very little 'technical' work on FreeBSD-Java. However, in my defense, I've been spending my time playing phone tag with Sun/WC/BSDi/OpenGroup, and other commercial companies and volunteer organizations trying to keep the ball rolling. This is *not* a strength of mine, but someone has to do it, and it just so happens that being in the US means it's much easier for me to do it. Things are happening, albeit slowly. The engineers I've been speaking with at Sun and BSDi have been very forthcoming, but the lawyers create so many hoops that we have to jump through that very little concrete help has been coming our way. But, if we give up jumping through the hoops we won't get anywhere. :( Patience grasshopper, all will come in it's own time. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 15: 1:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from portal.west.saic.com (portal.west.saic.com [198.151.12.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D962E37B864 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from GARY.R.SHAFFER@saic.com) Received: from cpmx.saic.com by portal.west.saic.com via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 3 Aug 2000 22:01:31 UT Received: from [139.121.95.12] by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:00:41 -0700 Received: from cp-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com ([139.121.95.34]) by 139.121.95.12 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:00:40 0000 (GMT) Received: by cp-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:00:44 -0700 Message-Id: <9C4E165721F7D311AC3D00805FBBB118312F4D@US-SD-PLTC.mail.saic.com> From: "Shaffer, Gary R" To: 'Michael Robinson' , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:56:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Another possiblity is for everyone to go a knock'n on BSDi's door and ask them when they are going make the JDK1.2.2 port for FreeBSD/BSDi available.. Right now, the only people with access to it are those with paid support contracts. Maybe if enough noise was generated, they would do something. Regards, GRS --- Gary R. Shaffer gary.r.shaffer@saic.com Program Manager/Senior Software Engineer shafferg@saic.com Science Applications International Corporation (v) 858-826-5746 4161 Campus Point Court, M/S E-2, San Diego California 92121 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Robinson [mailto:robinson@netrinsics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:38 PM To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) Greg Lewis writes: >Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could >probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of >the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. Let me quote: "October 11, 1999: Work has re-started on the Java2/JDK1.2 port. Expect an early 'alpha' release in the coming weeks for FreeBSD 3.3-stable/ELF boxes." 10 months in alpha, who knows how many more months in beta, and then a release, after which the whole process starts all over again for 1.3. Meanwhile, right now, today, I can use the Sun release of 1.3 for Linux to do everthing I need to do. What I can't do, though, is use HotSpot, because it breaks under Linux emulation. However, since the FreeBSD team doesn't have any access to the HotSpot code, any plans for access to the HotSpot code, or any ideas for plans for access to the HotSpot code, this means that the Linux JDK on FreeBSD today is just as good as the FreeBSD JDK will be sometime in the year 2002. Do you have any idea what that means, in Internet time? >I'm not quite sure how you can term the JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete" >though when it is the current _release_ from Sun for both Linux and >Solaris and when Blackdown have announced their final release of the >JDK 1.2.2 (with 1.3 to come sometime down the track) on the same day. Download Together 4.0, run it under 1.2.2, and then run it under 1.3 with the client-tuned HotSpot engine. Then you will be quite sure how I can term JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete". Likewise Enhydra with the server-tuned HotSpot engine. For real world technology managers making real-world deployment decisions, very soon the choice will be between running slow-slow-slow Java on FreeBSD or running fast-fast-fast Java on Linux. I've been a BSD user since 1984, but as a CTO, I know which decision I'll make if it comes down to that. >However, I would ask you to consider the following issues: > >(a) At this point > I'd not only have a huge pain in the neck, I'd also be wondering > why I didn't just install a Linux distro :(. I have to face that question every day, and not just for Java. Oracle, Domino, SMP, etc. etc. >(b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > during the 5.0 production cycle. Let's say the tooth fairy comes and debugs all my code for me while I'm sleeping. But I digress... > Its everything you'd want and is > perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But > alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of > the JDK. Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing this issue. Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, no less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. Either the FreeBSD Linux emulation will have to address this (assuming FreeBSD ever gets "an excellent kernel thread interface"), or FreeBSD will become "the network appliance OS". (There is, of course, the third alternative, that FreeBSD earns the kind of ISV support that Linux enjoys, but that's not really in the cards, now, is it.) >(c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The > volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on > the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually > like to spend it on a native JDK port :). This, of course, is indisputable. After all, you can still find volunteers writing code for the Amiga. But that raises another issue: if a tree writes software in the woods and no one uses it, does it make a sound? FreeBSD is dangerously close to falling into the Amiga death spiral. If it weren't for the excellent Linux emulation, it would already be there. The two biggest issues currently sucking FreeBSD down are SMP and Java. In my opinion, FreeBSD is far closer to solving the Java issue through emulation than it is through writing a native port. I'm not asking for something for nothing, either. $6k/seat for Together, $15k/server for WebLogic, the Oracle gouge, and it all starts to add up. Red Hat charges $2,500 for their Linux Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i. It's a small part of the budget, and if there were a FreeBSD Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i, I'd write the check tomorrow. But there isn't, so I can't. I can only wait for BSDi to figure out the 1980's are over, or try to influence the volunteers, or give up and jump ship. Today, I'm working plan B. -Michael "tough love" Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 15: 7:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE9937B88C for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA37949; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:37:34 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008032207.HAA37949@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200008030900.RAA01166@netrinsics.com> from Michael Robinson at "Aug 3, 2000 05:00:45 pm" To: Michael Robinson Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:37:34 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Robinson wrote: > Greg Lewis writes: > >I believe that Sun have released the HotSpot code under the SCSL, as they > >did the JDK 1.2.2, so it should be relatively easy to obtain access to it. > > Let me quote: > > "Install a JIT [snippage] > So, my best information is that the FreeBSD team does not have an idea for > a plan for how to get access to the HotSpot code in JDK 1.3. > > Of course, I may be misinformed. Hi Michael, That was referring to the JIT which came with 1.2.2 (sunwjit). HotSpot is a different beast. Take a look at http://www.sun.com/software/communitysource/hotspot/index.html Nate has already indicated that we should be getting better source code access through Sun and BSDi too :). -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 15: 8: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A0C37B86E for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA37916; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:33:23 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008032203.HAA37916@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1 In-Reply-To: <200008020642.QAA19087@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> from Greg Lewis at "Aug 2, 2000 04:12:19 pm" To: Greg Lewis Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:33:23 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Argh, you need the JDK 1.3 BETA code Sun _used_ to have available to test this. However, I can't see it on their download site anymore. They have the Windows version of 1.3 instead. Let me check if that contains the necessary JPDA bits (I'm doubting it though) and see what I need to do to make at least the JPDA bits available to people. -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 15:38:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2AD37B88B for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13758; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01166; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008032238.QAA01166@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Shaffer, Gary R" Cc: "'Michael Robinson'" , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) In-Reply-To: <9C4E165721F7D311AC3D00805FBBB118312F4D@US-SD-PLTC.mail.saic.com> References: <9C4E165721F7D311AC3D00805FBBB118312F4D@US-SD-PLTC.mail.saic.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Another possiblity is for everyone to go a knock'n on BSDi's door and ask > them when they are going make the JDK1.2.2 port for FreeBSD/BSDi available.. That door would be at my house, since the FreeBSD team is who is going to be making the port. BSDi is just the 'legal entity' Sun is using to keep the lawyers happy. > Right now, the only people with access to it are those with paid support > contracts. Maybe if enough noise was generated, they would do something. That's a BSDi commercial issue, and is *completely* un-related to how things are going to be don in the FreeBSD world. (Trust me on this, please. I've already fought and won that battle, let's not fight it again.) Nate > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Robinson [mailto:robinson@netrinsics.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:38 PM > To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Linux JDK on FreeBSD (was Re: Alpha JDK 1.2.2 JPDA extension 1) > > > Greg Lewis writes: > >Actually, the latest patchset (and probably patchset 9 as well) could > >probably have been tagged as beta. Personally, I'd like to get rid of > >the redrawing problem some people have before making that jump though. > > Let me quote: > > "October 11, 1999: Work has re-started on the Java2/JDK1.2 port. Expect > an early 'alpha' release in the coming weeks for FreeBSD 3.3-stable/ELF > boxes." > > 10 months in alpha, who knows how many more months in beta, and then a > release, after which the whole process starts all over again for 1.3. > > Meanwhile, right now, today, I can use the Sun release of 1.3 for Linux to > do everthing I need to do. What I can't do, though, is use HotSpot, because > it breaks under Linux emulation. However, since the FreeBSD team doesn't > have any access to the HotSpot code, any plans for access to the HotSpot > code, or any ideas for plans for access to the HotSpot code, this means that > the Linux JDK on FreeBSD today is just as good as the FreeBSD JDK will be > sometime in the year 2002. > > Do you have any idea what that means, in Internet time? > > >I'm not quite sure how you can term the JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete" > >though when it is the current _release_ from Sun for both Linux and > >Solaris and when Blackdown have announced their final release of the > >JDK 1.2.2 (with 1.3 to come sometime down the track) on the same day. > > Download Together 4.0, run it under 1.2.2, and then run it under 1.3 with > the client-tuned HotSpot engine. Then you will be quite sure how I can > term JDK 1.2.2 as "nearly-obsolete". Likewise Enhydra with the server-tuned > HotSpot engine. > > For real world technology managers making real-world deployment decisions, > very soon the choice will be between running slow-slow-slow Java on > FreeBSD or running fast-fast-fast Java on Linux. > > I've been a BSD user since 1984, but as a CTO, I know which decision I'll > make > if it comes down to that. > > >However, I would ask you to consider the following issues: > > > >(a) At this point > > I'd not only have a huge pain in the neck, I'd also be wondering > > why I didn't just install a Linux distro :(. > > I have to face that question every day, and not just for Java. Oracle, > Domino, SMP, etc. etc. > > >(b) Lets say an excellent kernel thread interface (for instance) develops > > during the 5.0 production cycle. > > Let's say the tooth fairy comes and debugs all my code for me while I'm > sleeping. But I digress... > > > Its everything you'd want and is > > perfectly suited for implementing native threads for the JDK. But > > alas, it can't be taken advantage of as there is no native port of > > the JDK. > > Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the > mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing > this issue. Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, > no less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. Either the > FreeBSD Linux emulation will have to address this (assuming FreeBSD ever > gets > "an excellent kernel thread interface"), or FreeBSD will become "the network > appliance OS". (There is, of course, the third alternative, that FreeBSD > earns the kind of ISV support that Linux enjoys, but that's not really in > the cards, now, is it.) > > >(c) The "limited resources" in question here is volunteer time. The > > volunteers may feel that (i) they don't have the skills to work on > > the Linux emulator, and (ii) its their time and they'd actually > > like to spend it on a native JDK port :). > > This, of course, is indisputable. After all, you can still find > volunteers writing code for the Amiga. But that raises another issue: > if a tree writes software in the woods and no one uses it, does it make a > sound? > > FreeBSD is dangerously close to falling into the Amiga death spiral. If it > weren't for the excellent Linux emulation, it would already be there. The > two biggest issues currently sucking FreeBSD down are SMP and Java. In my > opinion, FreeBSD is far closer to solving the Java issue through emulation > than it is through writing a native port. > > I'm not asking for something for nothing, either. $6k/seat for Together, > $15k/server for WebLogic, the Oracle gouge, and it all starts to add up. > Red Hat charges $2,500 for their Linux Enterprise Edition for Oracle 8i. > It's a small part of the budget, and if there were a FreeBSD Enterprise > Edition for Oracle 8i, I'd write the check tomorrow. But there isn't, > so I can't. I can only wait for BSDi to figure out the 1980's are over, > or try to influence the volunteers, or give up and jump ship. Today, > I'm working plan B. > > -Michael "tough love" Robinson > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 19:35:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.246.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF98037BA25 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glewis@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA44607; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:05:03 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from glewis) From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200008040235.MAA44607@ares.trc.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Edward Wolpert at "Aug 3, 2000 06:56:02 am" To: Edward Wolpert Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:05:03 +0930 (CST) Cc: Michael Robinson , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL70 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Edward Wolpert wrote: > One more point, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) this list is for native > ports of the Java VM's to FreeBSD. I think there is a different mailing > list for the linux emulation. (freebsd-emulation) I do emulate the > jdk1.3 port for certain builds myself, (jBoss can only be built using jdk1.3, > but runs fine under java1.2.2p9). Personally, I'd rather help the group > get Java 1.2.2 working anyways, rather than skip to Java 1.3. Let the > linux folks help sun workout some of the 1.3 bugs before we try. ;-) Here is what it said in the original message I got when I subscribed: "This is the mailing list for people discussing the development of significant Java applications for FreeBSD and the porting and maintenance of JDKs." The Linux Blackdown JDK is certainly available as part of the FreeBSD ports collection, so its maintenance (which would include usage and upgrading to 1.3 when that is release) probably falls within the scope of the list. Not only that, there have been previous discussions concerning running the Linux JDKs under emulation on the list, and I think that its certainly an appropriate place for it. Also note that without this ability it would be a lot harder to bootstrap the JDK 1.2.2 native build. Michael has raised some pertinent issues with running the HotSpot part of JDK 1.3 under emulation, and if anybody wants to run with that, then I'd personally encourage them to post any Java related questions or discussion topics to the list here. Obviously you'd get much more help with the nuts and bolts of the Linux emulation on the emulation list, but this is the place for Java stuff :). -- Greg Lewis glewis@trc.adelaide.edu.au Computing Officer +61 8 8303 5083 Teletraffic Research Centre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Aug 3 21:36:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA3237B6AE for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAB28421 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:32:36 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03273; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:37:21 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:37:21 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008040437.MAA03273@netrinsics.com> To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nate Williams writes: >That's FUD. Sun intends to give us access to everything the Linux folks >have. The problem at this point is paperwork, and I'm yelling again at >the BSDi folks to help me out here. (Just sent an email off a few >minutes ago0> Well, that's simultaneously encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging, because there's hope for good FreeBSD Java; discouraging because BSDi still hasn't recognized the value of pulling their head out. >No, he's serious. Currently FreeBSD is working on an implementation of >'real scalable' kernel threads. This is not to be confused with the >current kernel threads implementation that are used in Linux, and >emulated by FreeBSD quite well. > >These actually scale, and will allow FreeBSD to scale much better than >Linux does. (See recent benchmarks why the current threading model >doesn't work well, or any threading paper). Well, that's great, and I look forward to the day when it's deployed and stable. And if that day comes in less than two years, I'll be pleasantly surprised. >> Well, I would expect the Linux emulator to be suitably modified to do the >> mapping appropriately, because, again, Java is not the only product facing >> this issue. > >??? You don't understand. It can't do JNI simply because the JVM is >responsible for doing the mapping. The emulator folks can't be expected >to go off and figure out exactly what the emulator is doing w/regards. I was not referring to JNI. I was referring to kernel threads. Do you claim that it is unreasonable to expect the Linux compatibility layer to map Linux kernel thread calls to FreeBSD native kernel threads? >> Right now I can install Red Hat and run Oracle (with support, no >> less), on an 8-way Xeon box with reasonable scalability. >You and I have a much definition for 'reasonable scalability'. If you >had a Java program with 8 threads in it written with very little The above referred to Oracle. >However, methinks you're a wee bit over the top with Java. Java is not >*nearly* as big as it was a couple years back. Sun screwed the pooch >with it's licensing issue, and Java 1.3 is still not supported well on >most platforms. Yes, Java screwed the pooch with the licensing, as well as with over-promising and under-delivering in performance, features, and platform parity. However, Java is now on the comeback trail, with J2EE emerging as the enterprise component architecture of choice. Every major application server either supports, or plans to support J2EE. That means servers, lots of servers, running business logic on Java. For small-mid-sized businesses who can't afford Solaris (or W2K, for that matter, now that it's no longer the "cheap OS"), they've got Linux and a promise of maybe someday soon FreeBSD. >Heck, for that matter, only *two* platforms have a >usable/stable JDK1.3 platform (and Linux isn't one of them, although it >has a 'beta' quality release). I have had no problems with the 1.3 Linux beta refresh, under FreeBSD, except for anything that uses threads under the HotSpot VM. Under "classic", it's perfectly stable (and slow). It's a major improvement over the previous beta. I can reasonably expect a release-quality JDK1.3 for Linux before the end of the year. With the facts currently available to me, I have no such reasonable expectation of such from FreeBSD. >You don't have all the facts available to you. Well, I'm not going to apologize for the unavailability of facts. >Note that other 'vendors' are doing a much better job of influence, by >providing resources and encouragement, not bitching and moaning. Where do I send my check for the "native FreeBSD JDK1.3 by 4Q00" fund? -Michael Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Aug 4 1:24: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.research.kpn.com (hermes.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5ED37B669 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:24:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by research.kpn.com (PMDF V5.2-31 #42699) with ESMTP id <01JSKHM8YW0Y000769@research.kpn.com> for freebsd-java@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:23:57 +0200 Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:23:56 +0100 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:23:53 +0100 From: "Koster, K.J." Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD To: 'Michael Robinson' Cc: 'FreeBSD Java mailing list' Message-id: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D7743@l04.research.kpn.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Well, I'm not going to apologize for the > unavailability of facts. > You don't have to. I already did. > > Where do I send my check for the "native FreeBSD > JDK1.3 by 4Q00" fund? > I think "resources" in the context of the FreeBSD Java porting effort are knowledge, time and encouragement. So the easiest way to get 1.3 by Q4 is to sprinkle your e-mails with synonyms of the word "thanks". :-) On the other hand, if you would pay my boss to let me work on a JDK for FreeBSD full-time, I'd love to hear from you. Kees Jan ================================================= TV is the worst of both worlds. It's not as good at words as radio is because the pictures are a distraction which demand attention, and it's not as good as cinema because the pictures are not nearly as good. Douglas Adams To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Aug 4 4:26: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA7F37BA23 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 04:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robinson@netrinsics.com) Received: from netrinsics.com ([202.108.133.85]) by public.bta.net.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08834 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:21:55 +0800 (GMT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by netrinsics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04819; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:26:22 +0800 (+0800) (envelope-from robinson) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:26:22 +0800 (+0800) From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <200008041126.TAA04819@netrinsics.com> To: K.J.Koster@kpn.com, robinson@netrinsics.com Subject: RE: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D7743@l04.research.kpn.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Koster, K.J." writes: >I think "resources" in the context of the FreeBSD Java porting effort are >knowledge, time and encouragement. Well, since I and my employees reside in a country that's not on Sun's official "approved countries" list, the first two are out of the question. >So the easiest way to get 1.3 by Q4 is to >sprinkle your e-mails with synonyms of the word "thanks". :-) Thanks everybody. Particularly you, Kees, and Greg. >On the other hand, if you would pay my boss to let me work on a JDK for >FreeBSD full-time, I'd love to hear from you. I doubt I could afford to single-handedly subsidize a European programmer salary, but I'd be happy to contribute a reasonable amount to a group effort. -Michael Robinson P.S. Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Fri Aug 4 6: 9:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C40C37BAB9 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 06:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16211; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:09:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03537; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200008041309.HAA03537@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Robinson Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200008040437.MAA03273@netrinsics.com> References: <200008040437.MAA03273@netrinsics.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Note that other 'vendors' are doing a much better job of influence, by > >providing resources and encouragement, not bitching and moaning. > > Where do I send my check for the "native FreeBSD JDK1.3 by 4Q00" fund? You don't get to pick dates when you send money, unless you're willing to spend enough $$ to guarantee that it will occur. :) Are you willing to foot the whole bill to make sure it happens in the time frame given above? If so, less talk offline. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Aug 5 16:25:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f98.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AC337BBA5 for ; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:25:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:25:14 -0700 Received: from 209.220.228.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 Aug 2000 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux JDK on FreeBSD Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:25:14 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2000 23:25:14.0973 (UTC) FILETIME=[68B4E0D0:01BFFF34] Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>On the other hand, if you would pay my boss to let me work on a JDK for >>FreeBSD full-time, I'd love to hear from you. > >I doubt I could afford to single-handedly subsidize a European >programmer salary, but I'd be happy to contribute a reasonable amount >to a group effort. Seriously, if raising money would push development along, I think that there are many people and/or companies that would contribute. I would think that WC/BSDi could be / should be a major contributor but there are others (like Michael Robinson) who very much want to see FreeBSD as a viable Java development platform. That means 1) running native, and 2) JDK parity with other platforms, 3) revising ports: all ports (like postgresql, etc.) now support JDK1.1.8 by default since that is the official JDK port on FreeBSD. I am running a startup and we are expecting funding in late August/early September. I too, would be willing to contribute some time and $$ to the "JDK1.3 in '00" effort. John ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message