From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 11:41:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f29.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51D5937B55B for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phrack_@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 64514 invoked by uid 0); 28 May 2000 18:41:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20000528184142.64513.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 63.88.215.140 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 May 2000 11:41:42 PDT X-Originating-IP: [63.88.215.140] From: "phrack_ p h r a c k" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Getting online w/ PPPoe Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:41:42 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quick Q: about PPPOE connections, does anyone know where i can find some documentation on getting fbsd online via a pppoe connection? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 12:10:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from coimbra.oss.uswest.net (coimbra.oss.uswest.net [209.180.20.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA69C37B80A for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 12:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nitebirdz@uswest.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by coimbra.oss.uswest.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22033; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:09:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:09:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nitebirdz" X-Sender: nitebirdz@coimbra.oss.uswest.net To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Bryan Otteson , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any good books? In-Reply-To: <20000527094239.11337.qmail@hades.hell.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 May 2000, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > Bryan Otteson wrote: > > Are there any good books on just simple how-to stuff like configuring > > a printer, or finding out what the printer files are and how to manipulate > > them, or finding where your modem is and configuring? > > Yes, of course. I found Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD" to be of > great value during my first steps into FreeBSD. Of course, there are a > zillion books out there on learning Unix, and most of the Unix stuff > you'll get to know apply to FreeBSD too. > > Then, there is the FreeBSD handbook at http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ > and the FreeBSD FAQ. The manpages of FreeBSD are also a good resource > when looking for something you don't know about. Search them with: > By the way, the Handbook can also be purchased in hard copy now (I mean in paper, as opposed to the online version). See this URL: http://www.cdrom.com/titles/freebsd/bsdhandbk.phtml --------------------- Nitebirdz: http://www.linuxnovice.org "Open source tries to move software from a witchcraft to a science. People start discussing ideas and suddenly you don't have shamanistic companies telling you how it is." (Linus Torvalds) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 15: 8:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f286.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48DDF37B925 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 15:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 68607 invoked by uid 0); 28 May 2000 22:08:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000528220840.68606.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 63.226.227.74 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 May 2000 15:08:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [63.226.227.74] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: phrack_@hotmail.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting online w/ PPPoe Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:08:40 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org a search on google with "freebsd pppoe" yeilds: http://www.sympaticousers.org/faq/freebsd_howto.htm -Cosmic-665 >Quick Q: about PPPOE connections, does anyone know where i can find some >documentation on getting fbsd online via a pppoe connection? > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 15:19:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3DF37B897 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 15:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 216-164-221-206.s206.tnt4.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.221.206] helo=leegold1) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12wBOs-0001jb-00 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 28 May 2000 18:19:15 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:20:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org imo, i have not seen any what i would call good documentation for fbsd (and linux) for the neophyte. of course it could be that i am stupid and do not have the mental capacity to understand the documentation (of course it would help if walnut creek had not sent me ver 4.0 w/the complete bsd book - since their are signbificant changes in the install from 3.x.x ), but all documentation i see assumes sysadmin level knowledge. plus most levels of conversation also assumes pro level knowledge. plus, most doucumentation and support i hsve seen so far in the open/fee software realm is either incomplete ( sometimes only a cheesy/lazily written readme.txt), or assumes some mystic divination on the part of the user again maybe i'm just stupid), or prof/ sysadmin knowledge. So in a nutshell, i think there there are NO good intro books on any flavor of x86 unix.. they all suck - i can't fathom any of the hundred or so i've seen on linux or freebsd. when documenting try a tree stucture, then any of the deviations of the path will take care of themselves - naw -that would make to much sense. guess i must be a stupid mofo. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 15:31:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8918637B5D8 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 15:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06040; Mon, 29 May 2000 08:31:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdeQ6035; Mon May 29 08:31:15 2000 Message-ID: <003f01bfc8f4$f5a59c30$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" , References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:34:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Whilst I agree with you in principle, as do many people new to both unix & FreeBSD, there have been countless similar comments over the years and nothing much has changed. Well thats not strictly correct ... there have been a few attempts at creating intelligible docs, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any attempt at recording where they all are. However the ONLY way I can see any improvement is to stop complaining & do something positive about improving things ...... its obvious that the experts don't perceive the need for step_by_step docs, but the compliments I've received from my attempts to produce something a bit more newbie-friendly clearly demonstrate the need for similar stuff. My main problem is lack of time ..... if any other newbies feel inclined to assist I would appreciate their comments. ----- Original Message ----- From: "leegold" To: Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:20 AM Subject: Re: any good books? > imo, i have not seen any what i would call good documentation for fbsd (and > linux) for the neophyte. of course it could be that i am stupid and do not > have the mental capacity to understand the documentation (of course it > would help if walnut creek had not sent me ver 4.0 w/the complete bsd book - > since their are signbificant changes in the install from 3.x.x ), but all > documentation i see assumes sysadmin level knowledge. plus most levels of > conversation also assumes pro level knowledge. > > plus, most doucumentation and support i hsve seen so far in the open/fee > software realm is either incomplete ( sometimes only a cheesy/lazily written > readme.txt), or assumes some mystic divination on the part of the user > again maybe i'm just stupid), or prof/ sysadmin knowledge. > > So in a nutshell, i think there there are NO good intro books on any flavor > of x86 unix.. they all suck - i can't fathom any of the hundred or so i've > seen on linux or freebsd. > > when documenting try a tree stucture, then any of the deviations of the path > will take care of themselves - naw -that would make to much sense. > > guess i must be a stupid mofo. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 15:49:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bryden.apana.org.au (bryden.apana.org.au [203.3.126.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B12B37B8E2 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 15:49:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oracle@bryden.apana.org.au) Received: from ROADRUNNER (roadrunner.apana.org.au [203.3.126.132]) by bryden.apana.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26668; Mon, 29 May 2000 08:57:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from oracle@bryden.apana.org.au) Message-ID: <004d01bfc8f7$6ead1f20$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <000501bfc8f4$6dd934b0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:52:38 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > are you going to explain boot mangers and multiple boots say ws-dos and > freebsd on the same disk? The history of my stuff might put the thing in perspective. Basically its for me first, then secondly members of Apana (look at the www.apana.org.au for more info), & finally anyone else who can make use of it. As I said somewhere in the early pages my interest in FreeBSD (or anything else for that matter) is getting it working the most straightforward way. I'm not into the needless complication that appears to be part of the unix ethos ...... I've never seen the sense in boot managers / multiple operating systems. There are to my way of thinking other more reliable means of achieving the same results which don't involve all the aggro. (The mailing list archives are full of tales of woe about boot managers). For that matter, even a spare system is well within most people's budget these days. For a start. hard drives are as cheap as chips these days, and those nifty little removable hard drive gadgets are readily available, so why not give each O/S its own drive & avoid all the weird problems that beset boot managers. If you've got more Scottish (or Jewish is probably much the same I guess) ancestry than me, you might even be able to save the expense of the removable thingy, as modern motherboards have BIOS capacity to choose which hard drive boots anyway. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 16: 3:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1105A37B831 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 216-164-221-206.s206.tnt4.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.221.206] helo=leegold1) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12wC5E-0001Qs-00; Sun, 28 May 2000 19:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01bfc8f9$013844e0$cedda4d8@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <003f01bfc8f4$f5a59c30$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:03:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Whilst I agree with you in principle, as do many people new to both unix & > FreeBSD,> there have been countless similar comments over the years and nothing much> has changed.> Well thats not strictly correct ... there have been a few attempts at> creating intelligible docs,> but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any attempt at recording where> they all are. > However the ONLY way I can see any improvement is to stop complaining & do something yeah, you're right. one thing, that caught me off guard was the lack of support for the newer video cards. i got a shiny new card - highly rated - that's not x86 supported. typical newbie blunder. got me peaved. i've taken a mess of programming, computer- college level courses, nothing i've seen is as tuff a nut to crack as unix sysadmin. And that's what's happening - FreeBSD and maybe to a lesser extent Linux, requires the USER to become their own sysadmins. and that ain't easy my friend. think about it. > positive about improving things ...... its obvious that the experts don't > perceive the need for step_by_step docs, but the compliments I've received from my attempts to> produce something> a bit more newbie-friendly clearly demonstrate the need for similar stuff.> My main problem is lack of time ..... if any other newbies feel inclined to assist I would appreciate their comments. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "leegold" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:20 AM > Subject: Re: any good books? > > > > imo, i have not seen any what i would call good documentation for fbsd > (and > > linux) for the neophyte. of course it could be that i am stupid and do not > > have the mental capacity to understand the documentation (of course it > > would help if walnut creek had not sent me ver 4.0 w/the complete bsd > book - > > since their are signbificant changes in the install from 3.x.x ), but all > > documentation i see assumes sysadmin level knowledge. plus most levels of > > conversation also assumes pro level knowledge. > > > > plus, most doucumentation and support i hsve seen so far in the open/fee > > software realm is either incomplete ( sometimes only a cheesy/lazily > written > > readme.txt), or assumes some mystic divination on the part of the user > > again maybe i'm just stupid), or prof/ sysadmin knowledge. > > > > So in a nutshell, i think there there are NO good intro books on any > flavor > > of x86 unix.. they all suck - i can't fathom any of the hundred or so i've > > seen on linux or freebsd. > > > > when documenting try a tree stucture, then any of the deviations of the > path > > will take care of themselves - naw -that would make to much sense. > > > > guess i must be a stupid mofo. > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 16:13: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5512E37B8E2 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 216-164-221-206.s206.tnt4.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.221.206] helo=leegold1) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12wCEv-0002ZG-00 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 28 May 2000 19:13:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001601bfc8fa$67108ba0$cedda4d8@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: Subject: Re: Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:13:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > are you going to explain boot mangers and multiple boots say ws-dos and > > > freebsd on the same disk? > > > The history of my stuff might put the thing in perspective. Basically its > > for me first,> then secondly members of Apana (look at the > www.apana.org.au for more info), > > &> finally anyone else who can make use of it. As I said somewhere in the > early > > pages my> interest in FreeBSD (or anything else for that matter) is > getting it working > > the most> straightforward way. ok, yes. suppose multiple boots are a convienience above all else. not a necessity by any means. i like the purity of your approach. 1os/box. nice. > > I'm not into the needless complication that appears to > > be part of> the unix ethos ...... I've never seen the sense in boot ..snip... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 16:28:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from wwns.wwns.com (wwns.wwns.com [216.153.28.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3273E37B92E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ralph@dimp.com) Received: from dimp.com (ci107016-a.nash1.tn.home.com [24.6.45.18]) by wwns.wwns.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22391 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 18:29:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3931AA8D.EA98327D@dimp.com> Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:23:57 -0500 From: Ralph Mellor Organization: Digital Impact X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org page http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html says If you haven't installed yet, look for the latest mainstream release. and 'latest mainstream release' links to http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/announce.html so it looks like 3.4 is the 'latest mainstream release'. most of the rest of the doc i've read is consistent with 3.4 being the release that a newbie should install, but there have been some minor potential inconsistencies (hence this post). for example, one page (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html) linked to 3.3 stuff. (i found this page via the search engine, so maybe it's not linked in anymore by current doc and should be ignored?). furthermore, comments on the current-stable handbook page, plus a reasonable plain english interpretation 'latest mainstream release', make me wonder if 4.0 might qualify. so, is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? -- Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 16:31:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5778437B9E3 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 16:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06717; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:31:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdSy6715; Mon May 29 09:31:09 2000 Message-ID: <008b01bfc8fd$541f9420$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <003f01bfc8f4$f5a59c30$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <000a01bfc8f9$013844e0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:34:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > one thing, that caught me off guard was the lack of support for the newer > video cards. i got a shiny new card - highly rated - that's not x86 > supported. typical newbie blunder. got me peaved. I've got caught out there before .... my choice of desktop O/S is Solaris, & try getting an AGP card it likes !!!. The choice is between the totally crazy pricing of Matrox (around $400 in Australia) & the extremely good & well priced (but typically hard to find) ATI Rage Pro. > > i've taken a mess of programming, computer- college level courses, nothing > i've seen is as tuff a nut to crack as unix sysadmin. And that's what's > happening - FreeBSD and maybe to a lesser extent Linux, requires the USER to > become their own sysadmins. and that ain't easy my friend. think about it. > Actually the commercial unixes do come with "proper" docs. Both Solaris, & even more so, SCO docs are among the best on the planet. I figure the difference is that when you charge thousands for an O/S, clients can demand intelligible docs, but with "free" operatings like FreeBSD & the linuxes, the developers are basically code crunchers to whom docs are simply a distraction. At least the FreeBSD stuff is partly intelligible, as compared with those unbelievably dreadful linux HOWTO's. The reason I use FreeBSD is that its cheap ... I do have scottish ancestry :) .. , its reliable in a server mode, and once one figures stuff out its really simple to configure. The whole problem, as you have stated, is that proper (meaning in step_by_step format) explanations of even the most basic functions are somewhat difficult to find. I messed around with various linuxen for years without getting anywhere fast. The docs are typically written in some language not of planet earth (possibly martian or something even weirder), the faithful exhibit a religious zeal like nothing I've seen before (I swear they all face California to chant their "Hail Linuses" / "Our Linuses " or whatever oddball rites they perform, & it doesn't take a lot of lurking in their mailing lists / newsgroups to see that they believe Bill Gates is the Antichrist). Worst of all, the RedHat / Mandrake disasters I used proved to be so unstable they were worse than useless. Some of the regulars in these lists use slackware & claim its acceptably stable, but whats the point ......why confuse oneself with a second poorly documented O/S ?? At least FreeBSD does a very good job as a back-end server. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 20:43:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7F337BB30 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 20:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (r43.bfm.org [216.127.220.139]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Sun, 28 May 2000 22:44:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000528224304.008aac10@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:43:04 -0500 To: "leegold" , From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: any good books? In-Reply-To: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 18:20 28-05-2000 -0400, leegold wrote: >So in a nutshell, i think there there are NO good intro books on any flavor >of x86 unix.. they all suck Nah, there is one. But to confuse you, its *title* looks like an advanced book. :) It is: Unix Shell Programming, by Stephen G. Kochan and Patrick H. Wood. It is not x86 specific, nor does it cover things like installing the system. But once you have it installed, using Unix really is using a shell, and this book explains it all. Cheers, Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 20:44:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC5D37BB65 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 20:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-228-133.s387.tnt2.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.228.133] helo=leegold1) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12wGTm-00037v-00 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:44:39 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bfc920$58eff300$85e47ad1@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <003f01bfc8f4$f5a59c30$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <000a01bfc8f9$013844e0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <008b01bfc8fd$541f9420$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've got caught out there before .... my choice of desktop O/S is Solaris, & > try getting an AGP card it likes !!!. The choice is between the totally > crazy pricing of Matrox (around $400 in Australia) & the extremely good & well > priced (but typically hard to find) ATI Rage Pro. I got an ATI xpert2000 32mg for (w/$10 rebate) US $79 - seemed like alot of card for the money. but it's not supported! Can you mail order from the States? http://www.jandr.com they are good, but it would be a long trek - it's E.coast US. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 21:28: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C70937BB9E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 21:27:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id AAA14006; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:27:57 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d31.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d31.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.43]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id AAA27750; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:25:27 -0600 (MDT) From: mlduke To: Ralph Mellor Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? In-Reply-To: <3931AA8D.EA98327D@dimp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is strictly _personal_. I'm sticking with 3.2 When the guy who intro'd me to FBSD and my Unix Mentor both say negative things about "the latest and best" 4.0--I'm staying where I am. It works. It is stable. I've seen no reason to change. What the inbetweens might be I have no idea. Ideas have floated about that if one were to change, NetBSD might be the more stable way to go. ML Duke > page > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > > says > > If you haven't installed yet, look for the latest mainstream release. > > and 'latest mainstream release' links to > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/announce.html > > so it looks like 3.4 is the 'latest mainstream release'. > > most of the rest of the doc i've read is consistent with 3.4 > being the release that a newbie should install, but there have > been some minor potential inconsistencies (hence this post). > for example, one page (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html) > linked to 3.3 stuff. (i found this page via the search engine, > so maybe it's not linked in anymore by current doc and should > be ignored?). furthermore, comments on the current-stable > handbook page, plus a reasonable plain english interpretation > 'latest mainstream release', make me wonder if 4.0 might qualify. > > so, is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > > -- > Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 > If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM > 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 21:50:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from radius.city-guide.com (radius.cityisp.net [216.2.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD99A37BA51 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 21:50:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@cityisp.net) Received: from cityisp.net (dialup61.cityisp.net [216.5.38.79]) by radius.city-guide.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:00:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3931F7E9.FB39FEC6@cityisp.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:54:01 -0400 From: Chris Lync X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any good books? References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > imo, i have not seen any what i would call good documentation for fbsd (and > linux) for the neophyte. of course it could be that i am stupid and do not > have the mental capacity to understand the documentation (of course it > would help if walnut creek had not sent me ver 4.0 w/the complete bsd book - > since their are signbificant changes in the install from 3.x.x ), but all > documentation i see assumes sysadmin level knowledge. plus most levels of > conversation also assumes pro level knowledge. > Go out and buy Using Unix, Second Edition by Steve Moritsugu and DTR Business Systems. It's published by QUE so you should be able to find it easily. It assumes absolutey no prior Unix knowledge. It's not an "in 24 hours" kinda of book, but, its written very clearly and it's reads effortlessly...which means painless. It will show you how to use the Unix OS. It get's easier. It takes time and the effort and the stamina to get through the Intial Shock that we "single user admins " experience. I installed it on a box at home about 2-3 years ago. I'm a proud newbieScrewed up things. Was confounded by stupid hardware issues( which I got through due to the fact I've worked at computer stores building countless windows boxes). I do agree that some things , it seems you'll never know unless you ask and wait. And then, you'll find it has led to some massive project that you really didn't plan for in the first place. But, it makes it easier to understand the rest of it all. New things don't seem like such an issue after a while. At least we have mailing lists. Chris Lynch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 21:55: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from radius.city-guide.com (radius.cityisp.net [216.2.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CE837BA51 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 21:55:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@cityisp.net) Received: from cityisp.net (dialup61.cityisp.net [216.5.38.79]) by radius.city-guide.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:05:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3931F90D.9951B8E5@cityisp.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:58:53 -0400 From: Chris Lync X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any good books? References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <3931F7E9.FB39FEC6@cityisp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Go out and buy Using Unix, Second Edition by Steve Moritsugu and DTR Business > Systems. It's published Also their Using Unix , Special Edition is great. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 22:17:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84B337BB91 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 22:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09650; Mon, 29 May 2000 15:16:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdRr9648; Mon May 29 15:16:52 2000 Message-ID: <017601bfc92d$a020aaf0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "mlduke" , "Ralph Mellor" Cc: References: Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:20:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We've got a fair number of 4.0 systems running as gateways for connecting permanent modem LAN's to the internet,> Most of these carry a reasonable (although not enterprise level) load, including MySQL, Apache, Boa, sendmail, FTP etc ..... never had the slightest sign of a reliability issue ----- Original Message ----- From: "mlduke" To: "Ralph Mellor" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > > This is strictly _personal_. > I'm sticking with 3.2 > When the guy who intro'd me to FBSD and my Unix Mentor both say > negative things about "the latest and best" 4.0--I'm staying where > I am. > > It works. It is stable. I've seen no reason to change. > What the inbetweens might be I have no idea. Ideas have > floated about that if one were to change, NetBSD might be the > more stable way to go. > > ML Duke > > > page > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > > > > says > > > > If you haven't installed yet, look for the latest mainstream release. > > > > and 'latest mainstream release' links to > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/announce.html > > > > so it looks like 3.4 is the 'latest mainstream release'. > > > > most of the rest of the doc i've read is consistent with 3.4 > > being the release that a newbie should install, but there have > > been some minor potential inconsistencies (hence this post). > > for example, one page (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html) > > linked to 3.3 stuff. (i found this page via the search engine, > > so maybe it's not linked in anymore by current doc and should > > be ignored?). furthermore, comments on the current-stable > > handbook page, plus a reasonable plain english interpretation > > 'latest mainstream release', make me wonder if 4.0 might qualify. > > > > so, is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > > > > -- > > Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 > > If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM > > 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun May 28 23:11:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from wwns.wwns.com (wwns.wwns.com [216.153.28.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351D137BBC4 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ralph@dimp.com) Received: from dimp.com (ci107016-a.nash1.tn.home.com [24.6.45.18]) by wwns.wwns.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25958 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:12:19 -0500 Message-ID: <393208F7.526B7840@dimp.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:06:47 -0500 From: Ralph Mellor Organization: Digital Impact X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thanx 2 all who've answered thus far. does the current doc's preponderance of references to 3.4 as the thing for a newbie to install reflect the intentions of the freebsd authors? ---- fwiw, i've already installed 4.0R because, based on minimal reading (an hour or two) and link following, i had earlier concluded that 4.0 was the 'latest mainstream release'. however, some pieces, like the 4.0 install utility, didn't match up to my expectations given freebsd's rep. so i then concluded that maybe i was installing bleeding edge stuff. hence my email. mlduke wrote: > > This is strictly _personal_. > I'm sticking with 3.2 > When the guy who intro'd me to FBSD and my Unix Mentor both say > negative things about "the latest and best" 4.0--I'm staying where > I am. > > It works. It is stable. I've seen no reason to change. > What the inbetweens might be I have no idea. Ideas have > floated about that if one were to change, NetBSD might be the > more stable way to go. > > ML Duke > > > page > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > > > > says > > > > If you haven't installed yet, look for the latest mainstream release. > > > > and 'latest mainstream release' links to > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/announce.html > > > > so it looks like 3.4 is the 'latest mainstream release'. > > > > most of the rest of the doc i've read is consistent with 3.4 > > being the release that a newbie should install, but there have > > been some minor potential inconsistencies (hence this post). > > for example, one page (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html) > > linked to 3.3 stuff. (i found this page via the search engine, > > so maybe it's not linked in anymore by current doc and should > > be ignored?). furthermore, comments on the current-stable > > handbook page, plus a reasonable plain english interpretation > > 'latest mainstream release', make me wonder if 4.0 might qualify. > > > > so, is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > > > > -- > > Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 > > If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM > > 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > -- Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 0:22: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.futurniture.se (starlet.futurniture.se [195.242.45.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24D8537BBDC for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fredrik.carlen@futurniture.se) Received: (qmail 11778 invoked from network); 29 May 2000 07:22:03 -0000 Received: from firewall.hitechbuilding.se (HELO futurniture.se) (195.242.45.9) by mail.futurniture.se with SMTP; 29 May 2000 07:22:03 -0000 Message-ID: <39321AE6.C319DBD8@futurniture.se> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:23:18 +0200 From: Fredrik Carlen Organization: Futurniture X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: good reference for installing UNIX software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! I'm a one-year-old UNIX-user. :-) I'd like to learn more about it, and one of the major holes in my UNIX-knowledge is like the ozone layer over the Antarctic...porting and installing UNIX software. Does somebody have a good reference as to compiling and installing/deinstalling and so forth? The FreeBSD ports/packages system is a really good one (even simpler tha Wondows Wizards!!! :-) ), but I want a more thorough insight as to what really happens in the machine. UNIX System Administration? Porting UNIX software? Are these outdated? Anyone? "May the powers invested in me save the World" /Fredrik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 0:47: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (mail2.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [130.69.250.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC6D37BBF5 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lh87098@mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: from m.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (m.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.171.196]) by mail2.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id QAA24223 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 16:46:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (nc40008.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp) by m.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FVB0057P9LIVY@m.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 16:46:30 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:46:29 +0900 From: lh87098 Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPXU4QCROJCo1YSRhGyhC?= To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Message-id: <39322055.67BC6FE1@mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [ja] (X11; I; NCOS(NetBSD ver.) 1.3I-NCOS i386) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 　ごく最近FreeBSDを使い始めた文科系の韓国の留学生です。 　実はWindowsもよくしりませんが、Windowsの日本語のソフトに韓国語 　環境が備わってないことに甚だしい失望と憤りを感じてUNIXに 　関心を持つようになりまして、少し勉強していますが、 　文書作成の多国語環境の構築が、うまくいっておりません。Ｃを習いながら 　やってみようと思いますが、初歩者のためか、非常に効率が 　悪いです。FreeBSDでやろうと思ったら、まずどれをやればいいでしょうか。 　自分の使おうとする言語は、日本語、韓国語、ロシア語、古典ギリシア語 　程度です。初心者にやさしい方法があれば、お教えいただきたいです。 　では、ふしつけでありながら、お願いいたします。 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　金　　春　　和 　 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 7:18:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bne005m.server-mail.com (bne005m.server-mail.com [202.139.234.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C42937BBE0 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 07:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 366 invoked from network); 29 May 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO timberwolf) (203.147.160.149) by bne005m.server-mail.com with SMTP; 29 May 2000 14:18:26 -0000 Message-ID: <007a01bfc97a$4064bc80$95a093cb@timberwolf> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "Ralph Mellor" Cc: References: <393208F7.526B7840@dimp.com> Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:28:21 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don't know about everyone else, but I think the 4.0 install worked better for the than 3.2...wayy better infact...and the ports (or rather packages) that come on the CD are newer and better too. newer versions of KDE etc. Funny tho how the vim package was left out :(.. I think that and 4.0 was the only port I had to download to have a little experimental box going. On an unrelated note, I've founf xfree864.0 works better with my hardware (Creative TNT with a pretty generic monitor) than the one on the CD. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph Mellor Cc: Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 4:06 PM Subject: Re: is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > thanx 2 all who've answered thus far. > > does the current doc's preponderance of references to 3.4 as > the thing for a newbie to install reflect the intentions of > the freebsd authors? > > ---- > > fwiw, i've already installed 4.0R because, based on minimal > reading (an hour or two) and link following, i had earlier > concluded that 4.0 was the 'latest mainstream release'. > > however, some pieces, like the 4.0 install utility, didn't > match up to my expectations given freebsd's rep. so i then > concluded that maybe i was installing bleeding edge stuff. > > hence my email. > > mlduke wrote: > > > > This is strictly _personal_. > > I'm sticking with 3.2 > > When the guy who intro'd me to FBSD and my Unix Mentor both say > > negative things about "the latest and best" 4.0--I'm staying where > > I am. > > > > It works. It is stable. I've seen no reason to change. > > What the inbetweens might be I have no idea. Ideas have > > floated about that if one were to change, NetBSD might be the > > more stable way to go. > > > > ML Duke > > > > > page > > > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > > > > > > says > > > > > > If you haven't installed yet, look for the latest mainstream release. > > > > > > and 'latest mainstream release' links to > > > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/announce.html > > > > > > so it looks like 3.4 is the 'latest mainstream release'. > > > > > > most of the rest of the doc i've read is consistent with 3.4 > > > being the release that a newbie should install, but there have > > > been some minor potential inconsistencies (hence this post). > > > for example, one page (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html) > > > linked to 3.3 stuff. (i found this page via the search engine, > > > so maybe it's not linked in anymore by current doc and should > > > be ignored?). furthermore, comments on the current-stable > > > handbook page, plus a reasonable plain english interpretation > > > 'latest mainstream release', make me wonder if 4.0 might qualify. > > > > > > so, is 3.4 the 'latest mainstream release'? > > > > > > -- > > > Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 > > > If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM > > > 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- > Ralph Mellor: http://www.dimp.com/ralphmellor.html 615.292.2917 x2 > If I had my life over, I'd believe in reincarnation. icq# 71194896 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Digital Impact: http://www.dimp.com/ 615.292.2917 or 877.DIMP.COM > 2510 Essex Place, Nashville TN 37212 Fax: 615.269.9520 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 7:28:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bne003m.webcentral.com.au (horizon3.webcentral.com.au [202.139.235.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20BC537BC38 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 07:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1063 invoked from network); 29 May 2000 14:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO timberwolf) (203.147.160.149) by horizon3.webcentral.com.au with SMTP; 29 May 2000 14:28:22 -0000 Message-ID: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: Subject: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:38:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've just finished a network admininstration unit at Uni, which involved setting up a unix server. Over the course of 2 weeks, we learned about a lot of things...samba,X,nfs and so on. For better or worse (my vote being for worse), we had to use......Red Hat Linux!!! Well, now that I've actually had a chance to play with linux and freebsd, the conclusion I reach regarding which of the two is better, as far as the newbie/hobbyist sysadmin is concerned is freebsd hands down. How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a linux box? What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... And I must say that also regarding installing software, ports/packages beat RPMS anytime. I find the ports system way more intuitive than the RPM. And the fact that you don't have to explicitly mention that you want dependencies installed also makes life that little bit more sane for newbies like me. Cheers! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 7:31:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bne003m.webcentral.com.au (horizon3.webcentral.com.au [202.139.235.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A915837B588 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 07:31:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 2155 invoked from network); 29 May 2000 14:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO timberwolf) (203.147.160.149) by horizon3.webcentral.com.au with SMTP; 29 May 2000 14:31:35 -0000 Message-ID: <009601bfc97c$1732dc00$95a093cb@timberwolf> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> Subject: Re: any good books? Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:42:06 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heh, at least on Unix you have the man pages which you can try to squint at and make sense of, as opposed to windows where the only help you ever get is a dialogue box saying ask your administrator... ----- Original Message ----- From: leegold To: Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:20 AM Subject: Re: any good books? > imo, i have not seen any what i would call good documentation for fbsd (and > linux) for the neophyte. of course it could be that i am stupid and do not > have the mental capacity to understand the documentation (of course it > would help if walnut creek had not sent me ver 4.0 w/the complete bsd book - > since their are signbificant changes in the install from 3.x.x ), but all > documentation i see assumes sysadmin level knowledge. plus most levels of > conversation also assumes pro level knowledge. > > plus, most doucumentation and support i hsve seen so far in the open/fee > software realm is either incomplete ( sometimes only a cheesy/lazily written > readme.txt), or assumes some mystic divination on the part of the user > again maybe i'm just stupid), or prof/ sysadmin knowledge. > > So in a nutshell, i think there there are NO good intro books on any flavor > of x86 unix.. they all suck - i can't fathom any of the hundred or so i've > seen on linux or freebsd. > > when documenting try a tree stucture, then any of the deviations of the path > will take care of themselves - naw -that would make to much sense. > > guess i must be a stupid mofo. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 7:55:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from spectre.honk.org (cr876208-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com [24.42.175.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D575337BBDD for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 07:55:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from spectre.honk.org (mpoulin@spectre.honk.org [24.42.175.137]) by spectre.honk.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04978; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:56:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Marty Poulin To: phrack_ p h r a c k Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting online w/ PPPoe In-Reply-To: <20000528184142.64513.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check the Handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/pppoe.html - M - On Sun, 28 May 2000, phrack_ p h r a c k wrote: > Quick Q: about PPPOE connections, does anyone know where i can find some > documentation on getting fbsd online via a pppoe connection? > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 8:43:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF47437BC50 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 08:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id LAA03098; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:43:34 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d40.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d40.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.100]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id LAA04345; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:41:05 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke To: Fredrik Carlen Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: good reference for installing UNIX software In-Reply-To: <39321AE6.C319DBD8@futurniture.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Reading the Makefile(s) in ports will provide some good hints. ML Duke > Does somebody have a good reference as to compiling and > installing/deinstalling and so forth? > The FreeBSD ports/packages system is a really good one (even simpler tha > Wondows Wizards!!! :-) ), but I want a more thorough insight as to what > really happens in the machine. > > UNIX System Administration? > Porting UNIX software? > > Are these outdated? > > Anyone? > > "May the powers invested in me save the World" > /Fredrik > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 9: 1:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEDE37BBF7 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA35019; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:59:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:59:16 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Haikal Saadh Subject: RE: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 29-May-00 Haikal Saadh wrote: > I've just finished a network admininstration unit at Uni, which involved > setting up a unix server. > Over the course of 2 weeks, we learned about a lot of things...samba,X,nfs > and so on. > For better or worse (my vote being for worse), we had to use......Red Hat > Linux!!! > Well, now that I've actually had a chance to play with linux and freebsd, > the conclusion I reach regarding which of the two is better, as far as the > newbie/hobbyist sysadmin is concerned is freebsd hands down. > How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a > linux box? What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... > > And I must say that also regarding installing software, ports/packages beat > RPMS anytime. I find the ports system way more intuitive than the RPM. And > the fact that you don't have to explicitly mention that you want > dependencies installed also makes life that little bit more sane for newbies > like me. I couldn't agree with you more! I've tried Red Hat on a couple of occasions, just on the outside chance that there really *was* something to it that made it worth all the attention it's been getting. Bleah! Just like you, I think the /etc arrangement is downright insane. Trying to find the relevant file(s) for a certain feature is an exercise in madness and frustration. And I also find the RPM system a real pain-in-the-you-know-what to deal with. FreeBSD, by comparison, seems the perfect model of logic and order. Poor Red Hat users! I pity them. :-) -- Conrad Sabatier http://members.home.net/conrads/ ICQ# 1147270 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 9: 3:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC5537BC1D for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA64666; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:03:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <39321AE6.C319DBD8@futurniture.se> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:03:03 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Fredrik Carlen Subject: RE: good reference for installing UNIX software Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 29-May-00 Fredrik Carlen wrote: > Hi! I'm a one-year-old UNIX-user. :-) Our youngest user ever! Congratulations! :-) > I'd like to learn more about it, and one of the major holes in my > UNIX-knowledge is like the ozone layer over the Antarctic...porting and > installing UNIX software. > > Does somebody have a good reference as to compiling and > installing/deinstalling and so forth? > The FreeBSD ports/packages system is a really good one (even simpler tha > Wondows Wizards!!! :-) ), but I want a more thorough insight as to what > really happens in the machine. > > UNIX System Administration? > Porting UNIX software? > > Are these outdated? > > Anyone? You should definitely get *both* of these books, especially the porting book. Both are very good. While they may be a little out of date, and neither is FreeBSD-specific, they both contain tons of useful information. In fact, pretty much anything from O'Reilly publishers is a sure bet. Real quality stuff. -- Conrad Sabatier http://members.home.net/conrads/ ICQ# 1147270 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 9:25: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF2937BC15 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from theoea@postoffice.pacbell.net) Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net ([206.171.33.40]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0FVB00D83XLIFQ@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:30:35 +0100 From: theoea@postoffice.pacbell.net Subject: Re using a 486 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: theoea@pacbell.net Message-id: <39322AAA.33DF5434@postoffice.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a 486. Can I install BSD on it & use it as a connection to the internet. It would be like those $99 internet appliances that are advertised. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 9:35: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop2.gte.net (smtppop2pub.gte.net [206.46.170.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E6337BC4D for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oljeep.collins@gte.net) Received: from gte.net (tamqfl1-ar1-200-230.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.200.230]) by smtppop2.gte.net with ESMTP ; id LAA4504442 Mon, 29 May 2000 11:36:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39329C42.57C33F52@gte.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:35:15 -0400 From: Tom Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-AOL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theoea@pacbell.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Re using a 486 References: <39322AAA.33DF5434@postoffice.pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I temporarily used an old 486DX-4/100 w/16 megs for awhile and it worked just fine with version 3.4stable. Tom Collins To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 9:57:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458D637BC6C for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:57:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from johnmxl@radiks.net) Received: from radiks.net (dsp-513-omaha.radiks.net [206.29.242.179]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04774 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:54:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3932A182.A21C2631@radiks.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:57:38 -0500 From: John Amdor III Reply-To: johnmxl@radiks.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 References: <39322AAA.33DF5434@postoffice.pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have FreeBSD 2.2.5 running on an old Compaq 486/33 with a 250MB IDE hard drive that provides a PPP connection with 56K modem to support 5 user stations in a small-town public library. It isn't pretty (or fast) but it serves (pardon the pun) the purpose and fits the budget. I compiled a custom kernel to eliminate stuff I didn't need and use ijppp. One of these days I should recompile the kernel and add a firewall but it works so well now I hate to mess with it! John Amdor theoea@pacbell.net wrote: > > I have a 486. Can I install BSD on it & use it as a connection to the > internet. It would be like those $99 internet appliances that are > advertised. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 10:30:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA4B37BCAE for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.156]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3B41; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:32:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3932A96D.6FEF6F7B@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:31:25 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Haikal Saadh Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) References: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haikal Saadh wrote: > For better or worse (my vote being for worse), we had to use......Red Hat > Linux!!! Well, when pitted against Redhat, just about anything comes out smelling like a rose :-) As I see it, the biggest thing holding Linux back from achieving its goal of world domination is Redhat (number two is Linux advocacy). Next time, if it has to be Linux, use Slackware. Small, stable, just what you need. Of course, it still doesn't have ports... -- David Johnson... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 10:38:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EB537BCF3 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.156]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3C78; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:39:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3932AB42.3A9E984F@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:39:14 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Haikal Saadh Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any good books? References: <000501bfc8f2$e3ea30c0$cedda4d8@leegold1> <009601bfc97c$1732dc00$95a093cb@timberwolf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haikal Saadh wrote: > > Heh, at least on Unix you have the man pages which you can try to squint at > and make sense of, as opposed to windows where the only help you ever get is > a dialogue box saying ask your administrator... Or even better, those Linuxen that insist on using the GNU man pages instead of writing their own. To quote from one in particular "This man page is not kept up to date except when volunteers want to maintain it... If we find that the things in this man page that are out of date cause significant confusion or complaints, we will stop distributing the man page." -- David Johnson... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 11:32:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22FD637BCBB for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p92.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.92]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA82722; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:30:53 +0200 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA00744; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:05:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:05:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: Haikal Saadh Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, > How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a > linux box? What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... How and why do you use heads and tails ? (If it isnt just a joke abaout Linux being to complicated ;-) Heiko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 11:34:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf24.de (mail.surf24.de [212.62.192.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5BC37BCC9 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de) Received: from duffner.surf24.de (surf236.surf24.de [212.62.193.236]) by mail.surf24.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA24503; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:34:09 +0200 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:58:05 +0100 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) To: Haikal Saadh Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 29 May, Haikal Saadh wrote: > I've just finished a network admininstration unit at Uni, which involved > setting up a unix server. > Over the course of 2 weeks, we learned about a lot of things...samba,X,nfs > and so on. > For better or worse (my vote being for worse), we had to use......Red Hat > Linux!!! You could have hit worse (things like Corel, or SuSE spring to my mind)... > Well, now that I've actually had a chance to play with linux and freebsd, > the conclusion I reach regarding which of the two is better, as far as the > newbie/hobbyist sysadmin is concerned is freebsd hands down. Depends. If you just want to have a trendy dual-boot Win98/Linux box without actually being interested in the things that happen in the background - why bother with FreeBSD's /usr/local/etc/rc when SuSE's yast will do it all for you (if you installed it from the SuSE-CD - god help you if you didn't...). Or do you think that all those millions of CDs that RedHat et.al. shipped last year and will be shipping this year went to a growing, increasingly informed, eager-to-learn user-base like in 1996 or so ? Linux has long-since left that niche. The growing user-influx for FreeBSD, from former Linux-users speaks for itself, as the daily number of posting to linux.setup-newsgroups.... > How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a > linux box? Depends on what distribution it is. SuSE has almost anything in /etc/rc.config. SuSEConfig parses that each time you run yast and adjusts all other files in /etc. Or mostly all. At least the one you changed manually three weeks ago.... :-) I don't know off-hand for RedHat, but I think they manipulate the original config-files. > What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... They represent different run-levels. This is a SysV-concept. BSD only has single-user (boot -s or shutdown now) and the normal multi-user boot, while SysV and Linux add several more to this, to have a finer-grained control over the process). It's not that bad, as it creates a way of consistantly shutting down a system. E.g. larger databases a la Oracle have several processes that need to be shut down in a specific order. At least, that's what I seem to remember. But then, you shouldn't have to reboot an Oracle-Server that often anyway ... ;-) > And I must say that also regarding installing software, ports/packages beat > RPMS anytime. RPMs may come handy when updating binary-only, pay-only software to registered customers. You could still have the update be downloadable by anyone, but only registered customers could use and install it (rpm -U). RedHat are no idiots - they knew from the beginning that this was going to be a critical issue. > I find the ports system way more intuitive than the RPM. On the other hand, the RPM-tool somehow breaks the unix-philosophy that a tool should only do one thing at a time (RPM does lots more, like more-or-less checking system-integrity - but then, what does that all mean in the days of StarOffice5 forking several 50meg processes at once...) > When I try to compile a kernel on Linux, I often end up with errors during the make-process - despite the fact that I used a GUI to build the config-file that should take care for all dependencies... Also, why does the Linux kernel complain when it is bigger than 570+K ? I mean, my FreeBSD-kernel is 1.5 or so, and I thought that the 640K-limit really got abolished in unix-land some time ago... cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 20: 7:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A1E37BA1D for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21377; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:06:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdo21371; Tue May 30 13:06:47 2000 Message-ID: <02c901bfc9e4$30dbf070$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: , References: <39322AAA.33DF5434@postoffice.pacbell.net> <3932A182.A21C2631@radiks.net> Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:07:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've got a bunch of geriatric boxes doing service as gateways here, the oldest is a prehistoric steam powered Unisys 386 mit 16 Mb of 30 pin RAM / 120Mb HDD / 3.2 running sendmail / cuciopp / FTP/ etc, & there's a bunch of 486dx2-66 / 16Mb / 4.0 ones with all the same apps & some even running Apache & dialin. There's also at least one Apana POP running a 486-33 / 8Mb RAM / 2.2.8 / Cyclades multiport card / up to 16 dialin users ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Amdor III" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 2:57 AM Subject: Re: Re using a 486 > I have FreeBSD 2.2.5 running on an old Compaq 486/33 with a 250MB IDE > hard drive that provides a PPP connection with 56K modem to support 5 > user stations in a small-town public library. It isn't pretty (or fast) > but it serves (pardon the pun) the purpose and fits the budget. > > I compiled a custom kernel to eliminate stuff I didn't need and use > ijppp. One of these days I should recompile the kernel and add a > firewall but it works so well now I hate to mess with it! > > John Amdor > > theoea@pacbell.net wrote: > > > > I have a 486. Can I install BSD on it & use it as a connection to the > > internet. It would be like those $99 internet appliances that are > > advertised. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 20:55:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bga.com (mail5.realtime.net [205.238.128.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A4A437B825 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from outlawtx@bga.com) Received: from john ([204.181.162.73]) by bga.com ; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:55:29 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000529230137.01a5d510@bga.com> X-Sender: outlawtx@bga.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:01:37 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: outlawtx@bga.com Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: References: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I can't make heads or tails out of anything Linux. There are so many distributions that a book on Linux is practically worthless. The only people who think Linux is great are Unix experts. I switch to FreeBSD in August 1999 and have been with it ever since. I'll never go back to Linux. The docs are just worthless. Sincerely, Don James At 06:05 PM 5/29/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >> How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a >> linux box? What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... > >How and why do you use heads and tails ? (If it isnt just a joke abaout >Linux being to complicated ;-) > >Heiko > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 21: 9:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f90.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D1CE637B7D7 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 67060 invoked by uid 0); 30 May 2000 04:09:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20000530040918.67059.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 63.226.227.73 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 May 2000 21:09:18 PDT X-Originating-IP: [63.226.227.73] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: oljeep.collins@gte.net, theoea@pacbell.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:09:18 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've got a little 386 with 8MB of ram running FreeBSD!! it only has 100MB HD and I through it on a static IP!! Hows that for a router :) -cosmic-665 >I temporarily used an old 486DX-4/100 w/16 megs for awhile >and it worked just fine with version 3.4stable. >Tom Collins > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon May 29 22:15:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from radius.city-guide.com (radius.cityisp.net [216.2.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87EA537BD88 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@cityisp.net) Received: from cityisp.net (dialup1.cityisp.net [216.5.38.19]) by radius.city-guide.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:26:11 -0400 Message-ID: <39334F76.E6EC6B39@cityisp.net> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:19:50 -0400 From: Chris Lync X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Haikal Saadh Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) References: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haikal Saadh wrote: > > Well, now that I've actually had a chance to play with linux and freebsd, > the conclusion I reach regarding which of the two is better, as far as the > newbie/hobbyist sysadmin is concerned is freebsd hands down. > How on earth is anyone supposed to make heads or tails out of /etc on a > linux box? What with all those /etc/rcX's and so forth... > The best thing about FreeBSD is that the file system is so logical. Why search rc.to-hell-and-back just to find out how to alias an ip... or whatever. FreeBSD would be a better introduction to unix than the other trys. Yeah, so what, so I have to work at compiling that damned Linux binary... eventually, more people will end up towards FreeBSD, and we'll have the nice programs Red Hat will run out of the box (like sndconfig, but having learned the hard way-which actually is easier that the mentioned program...you edit a text file...damn, that's too much trouble). One day all the lame jokes from MCSE's and Linux users about FreeBSD will be completely gone (trust me, I hear them all day long while at work...the best thing being I'm running nameservers on FreeBSD, and another company I work for has converted 10 HIGH-TRAFFIC customers from NT and Linux to FreeBSD. Linux is the best thing since Easter...but, FreeBSD is the best thing since Christmas. High-Traffic means over 30Mbps, not bad from my experience (being that I mean the average box is using 30 per second). I'm a newbie. If you are new, and you think shit sucks (oops), just remember that Unix is a path, not a quick fix. The time you spend with it, you get back 100 times...it just takes time. Off note, if you try real hard you can end up making $$$ using FreeBSD, just in case that ever crosses your mind. That actually doesn't compare to the constant learning you get from trying something. At least the internet is available, so questions get answered... Anyways, Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 6:16:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from coimbra.oss.uswest.net (coimbra.oss.uswest.net [209.180.20.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F0B37BDA6 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 06:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nitebirdz@coimbra.oss.uswest.net) Received: from localhost (nitebirdz@localhost) by coimbra.oss.uswest.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06719; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:17:56 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:17:56 -0500 (CDT) From: To: theoea@pacbell.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <39322AAA.33DF5434@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 29 May 2000 theoea@pacbell.net wrote: > I have a 486. Can I install BSD on it & use it as a connection to the > internet. It would be like those $99 internet appliances that are > advertised. > I managed to run 2.2.8-stable on an old 486 with 16 Mb of RAM. However, it wasn't really faste (with X loaded). Since you'd like to use it as an Internet appliance or sort of, I'd definitely recommend to at least install 64 Mb of RAM and a good video card. -- Nitebirdz http://www.linuxnovice.org Tips, articles, news, links... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 7:42:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E5CF237BD7C for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 07:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom.hines2@usa.net) Received: (qmail 4913 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2000 14:42:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.61 by nwcst316 for [207.91.82.137] via web-mailer(34FM1.4.02C) on Tue May 30 14:42:35 GMT 2000 Date: 30 May 00 08:42:35 MDT From: Tom Hines2 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34FM1.4.02C) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Linux convert here. I ran Linux for several years. I tried Redhat 5.2, Redhat 6.0, Mandrake 6.0, and finally Redhat 6.1. I wanted to try Debian= , but they were too slow getting out a release with the 2.2 kernel. My goal wa= s to give up Windows entirely, but I couldn't because my ppp connection was unreliable in Linux. I started eyeballing FreeBSD about a year ago and really wanted to try it= =2E = The ppp situation in Linux finally made me switch. I spent all day Satur= day installing and configuring 4.0-RELEASE. All went smoothly. I had a litt= le trouble getting my ppp connection configured, but once up, it ran great. My verdict? I love it! Now I'm back where I was with Linux, with my bla= ckbox window manager and all my favorite dock apps, although I'm taking a serio= us look at gkrellm (http://gkrellm.net) as a replacement for those :-). I can't wait to get back home to continue tweaking it and do the one thin= g I was never able to do with Linux -- get some work done! :-) I just wanted to share my story and say that I was happy to be amongst th= e freebsd-newbies. See you online. Tom Hines Rockville, MD ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 8:24:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A89E37B561 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29023; Wed, 31 May 2000 01:16:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdX29021; Wed May 31 01:16:32 2000 Message-ID: <035f01bfca4a$236ed540$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: , Cc: References: Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:17:13 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Who needs X on a gateway box ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Re using a 486 > On Mon, 29 May 2000 theoea@pacbell.net wrote: > > > I have a 486. Can I install BSD on it & use it as a connection to the > > internet. It would be like those $99 internet appliances that are > > advertised. > > > > I managed to run 2.2.8-stable on an old 486 with 16 Mb of RAM. However, > it wasn't really faste (with X loaded). Since you'd like to use it as an > Internet appliance or sort of, I'd definitely recommend to at least > install 64 Mb of RAM and a good video card. > > > -- > Nitebirdz > http://www.linuxnovice.org > Tips, articles, news, links... > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 10:26:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE04837B6B4 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 10:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA342C; Tue, 30 May 2000 10:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3933F945.B4D1C23F@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:24:21 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: outlawtx@bga.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) References: <008001bfc97b$a4064d20$95a093cb@timberwolf> <3.0.6.32.20000529230137.01a5d510@bga.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org outlawtx@bga.com wrote: > I can't make heads or tails out of anything Linux. There are so many > distributions that a book on Linux is practically worthless. The only > people who think Linux is great are Unix experts. > > I switch to FreeBSD in August 1999 and have been with it ever since. I'll > never go back to Linux. The docs are just worthless. It's funny that the same advocates who acuse the BSD folks of oligarchical development are the same ones who acuse other distributions of being too complex, or too windowish, or too lax on security, etc. When you've learned Redhat, you've learned Redhat, but know nothing about administering SuSE or Debian. But when you've learned FreeBSD, then OpenBSD and NetBSD are a piece of cake. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 11:23:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED9737B5FB for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA56CA; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3934069B.81AF8A12@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:21:15 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Young Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 References: <035f01bfca4a$236ed540$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Young wrote: > > Who needs X on a gateway box ?? > > > I managed to run 2.2.8-stable on an old 486 with 16 Mb of RAM. However, > > it wasn't really faste (with X loaded). Since you'd like to use it as an > > Internet appliance or sort of, I'd definitely recommend to at least > > install 64 Mb of RAM and a good video card. It might not be exclusively a gateway. A lot of internet appliances are for browsing and messaging, not for serving or routing. Some people, myself included, only have a single computer. We can't afford dedicated firewall boxen If you only have one computer, then your gateway is also your desktop is also your development box is also your game machine. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 12:52:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9570937B552 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 12:52:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DF4310DD; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA14799; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:07:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:07:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: Doug Young , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <3934069B.81AF8A12@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > Doug Young wrote: > > > > Who needs X on a gateway box ?? > > > > > I managed to run 2.2.8-stable on an old 486 with 16 Mb of RAM. However, > > > it wasn't really faste (with X loaded). Since you'd like to use it as an > > > Internet appliance or sort of, I'd definitely recommend to at least > > > install 64 Mb of RAM and a good video card. > > It might not be exclusively a gateway. A lot of internet appliances are > for browsing and messaging, not for serving or routing. Some people, > myself included, only have a single computer. We can't afford dedicated > firewall boxen If you only have one computer, then your gateway is also > your desktop is also your development box is also your game machine. > > David Hey David and Doug, I just got a pentium 166 w/ 32M RAM for $200 US from a vendor of used machines. Check the papers for used boxes. The pace of technological change makes good hdwe accessible. And: the hdwe is usually well supported. Unlike a buddy of mine who is struggling with an ATI Rage 2000 Expert card - it has 32M of RAM but no official X support. :-( BTW, I run 3.4 on an i486 with bad uarts (16450s), very low RAM (12M) and limited swap due to the small hdd. I also run X. It runs ok. Netscape is a dog on this machine but so what? I could always get something faster...if netscape is that important. Fact is, I like not throwing out my old machine --- it does its job which is to be a mail server. And Doug here helped me get sendmail and ppp happy on it with his Pedantic FreeBSD page. Later gents, Tom ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 12:53: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9694E37B5CB for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 12:52:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B077430F55; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA14774; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:00:08 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:00:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: <3933F945.B4D1C23F@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > When you've learned Redhat, you've learned Redhat, but know nothing > about administering SuSE or Debian. But when you've learned FreeBSD, Ahh. Interesting viewpoint David. Hasn't been my experience though. In my experience: Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. RedHat (and Caldera) use the rpm (RedHat Package Manager) system for installing *binaries*. The others stick to standard unix (that is tape archives or tarballs --- .tar or .tgz ;-) Even then, you don't have to use rpm on RedHat and Slackware has an rpm2tgz binary... Linux similarities are everywhere. And why shouldn't they be? The kernel and the apps are all the same. The linux kernel is not distribution specific. The apps are written for the most part by GNU. Kind of like FBSD. As someone who runs Slackware, RedHat and FBSD, I can tell you that unix is unix. How you start it and where you put things is really the only difference. (Of course the FBSD filesystem is a winner and Linux has some work to do in this area.) I run sendmail, taylor uucp, ppp, postgres databases, perl and python, apache, on and on. Guess what? They are the same on Linux, BSD, Solaris and UnixWare. They better be - it's the same src code. > It's funny that the same advocates who acuse the BSD folks of > oligarchical development are the same ones who acuse other distributions > of being too complex, or too windowish, or too lax on security, etc. And the FreeBSD guys who worry more about why their OS is better than some other unix are usually newbies. This wears off with time - and experience. Why? People who love unix to the point they run a variety of flavours usually are less concerned with rhetoric and more preoccupied with writing code...besides they know the obvious truth: no one implementation has it *all*, each has selling points. If I had enough money to own a Triumph Bonneville, a BMW R100 and a Norton Commando 850 I doubt I'd spend alot of time worrying about which bike was 'superior'. RE: the issue of docs...I find this to be a chimerical argument. The docs exist, I know, I've read most of them. Man pages on FBSD bear a marked similarity to other systems. As do Howtos and handbooks. I think FBSDers who go on about this reflect a rookie's enthusiasm more than a reality. My .02 cents. Cheers, Tom ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 13: 8:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.root-servers.ch (alpha.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1612237BD63 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 5429 invoked from network); 30 May 2000 20:10:13 -0000 Received: from client99-59.hispeed.ch (62.2.99.59) by ns1.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 30 May 2000 20:10:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:09:35 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (1.42) Business Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6318931011.20000530220935@buz.ch> To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > RedHat (and Caldera) use the rpm (RedHat Package Manager) system for > installing *binaries*. The others stick to standard unix (that is > tape archives or tarballs --- .tar or .tgz ;-) > Even then, you don't have to use rpm on RedHat and Slackware has > an rpm2tgz binary... Sorry but that's obviously wrong. Atleast SuSE uses RPM as well (I've got one SuSE server running, is easier to setup for newbies but then...)[1]. Don't know the other. But SuSE has got one big problem: it tries to be easy. FreeBSD OTOH lacks such a thing as YaST forcing the user to learn the system but afterwards he atleast understands what his system's doing. After some hard weeks, I like FreeBSD (OTOH, with SuSE I managed to setup a webserver quite from scratch in one week, though some DNS and Apache knowledge from NT was there). But afterall, I'd still consider myseld UNIX newbie. And I still believe in my NT desktop ;-). Despite all NT bashing, some parts of it are actually quite similar to UNIX, especially where the POSIX subsystems have got their fingers in *g*. > The docs exist, I know, I've read most of them. Man pages on FBSD > bear a marked similarity to other systems. As do Howtos and handbooks. I actually found Linux to be better documented but if you spent the money for The Complete FreeBSD, everything should go very well. The SuSE manual, OTOH, is just some kind of installation bible with 500 pages and some other stuff. Never found anything about .profile and such stuff... Best regards, Gabriel [1] RPM, especially BINARY, is actually the worst thing in SuSE, IMHO. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 13:16:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.geo.co.jp (smtp.geo.co.jp [210.224.98.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7DA37B73C; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ougicl@geo.co.jp) Received: from default ([210.135.18.47]) by smtp.geo.co.jp (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2J release 205-101A-J ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id AAK197; Wed, 31 May 2000 05:16:47 +0900 Message-ID: <081f01bfca71$3f227040$02fc0bca@default> To: From: "=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQHA2ZjNaSXQbKEI=?=" Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPXdNJTFnPXUlNSE8JS8layEhJTIlOSVIMnEbKEI=?= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 03:12:22 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ６/１８熱海で説明＆体験会。詳細希望者は必ず題を 「参加検討詳細希望」とし、本文に年齢、県名を記したメールを ougikai@feel.to に。（２３日以前に頂いた方お手数ですが再送ください） 相互秘密厳守絶対 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 13:35:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B0137B73C for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA2A4A; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:37:13 -0700 Message-ID: <393425AB.42CABC8E@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:33:47 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system > initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or > Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the > development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut > Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. I was meaning something a little different. Of course, underneath, all of the linuces are similar. However, over the top of that they all have a different veneer. For someone who doesn't know Unix inside and out, that veneer becomes important. They won't know each and every configuration file by heart. They won't know that Redhat stores foo.rc under /etc/foo while SuSE stores it under /etc/bar. So they'll do what the manual tells them to do, and fire up Linuxconf, or YaST, or COAS, or SAS, or whatever. This is the veneer, and it doesn't matter how much you know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless when you're faced with a Mandrake box. To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX is from HPUX. A big advantage to FreeBSD and it's cousin Slackware, is that by and large the veneer has been stripped away. This makes them much more difficult to learn, but at least you're learning generic all-purpose Unix instead of locking yourselves into a single distro. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 14:38:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C1B37B61B for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p145.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.145]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA166768; Tue, 30 May 2000 23:36:45 +0200 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA03460; Tue, 30 May 2000 23:19:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:19:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: John Amdor III Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <3932A182.A21C2631@radiks.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Mon, 29 May 2000, John Amdor III wrote: > I compiled a custom kernel to eliminate stuff I didn't need and use > ijppp. One of these days I should recompile the kernel and add a Why this sort of PPP ? Heiko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 17: 1:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7033D37BE6B for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi.concentric.net [206.173.118.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id UAA17169; Tue, 30 May 2000 20:01:46 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts006d36.mer-id.concentric.net (ts006d36.mer-id.concentric.net [208.177.68.48]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id UAA23515; Tue, 30 May 2000 20:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:59:10 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke To: Tom Hines2 Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > they were too slow getting out a release with the 2.2 kernel. My goal was to > give up Windows entirely, Congratulations on accomplishing the mswincrash divorce. It is a good feeling, yes? It took me a little over two years to get it done due to the need to simultaneously continue serving clients --but the gate crashed down on mssludge about a year and a half ago (running 3.2 and quite content). ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 17:51:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6F237B617 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rd64pro@pacbell.net) Received: from ryan.pacbell.net ([207.212.134.233]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FVE0077VFLPZG@mta2.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:46:04 -0700 From: Ryan Subject: Re: In-reply-to: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Reply-To: rd64pro@pacbell.net Message-id: <00053007442102.00224@ryan.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, welcome aboard Tom! Maybe it's nothing, but I think us FreeBSD users are just downright happier people. We realize we have a great OS on our hands and we're very appreciative (and also very willing to lend a hand to fellow users). Enjoy! Ryan > Linux convert here. I ran Linux for several years. I tried Redhat 5.2, > Redhat 6.0, Mandrake 6.0, and finally Redhat 6.1. I wanted to try Debian, but > they were too slow getting out a release with the 2.2 kernel. My goal was to > give up Windows entirely, but I couldn't because my ppp connection was > unreliable in Linux. > > I started eyeballing FreeBSD about a year ago and really wanted to try it. > The ppp situation in Linux finally made me switch. I spent all day Saturday > installing and configuring 4.0-RELEASE. All went smoothly. I had a little > trouble getting my ppp connection configured, but once up, it ran great. > > My verdict? I love it! Now I'm back where I was with Linux, with my blackbox > window manager and all my favorite dock apps, although I'm taking a serious > look at gkrellm (http://gkrellm.net) as a replacement for those :-). > > I can't wait to get back home to continue tweaking it and do the one thing I > was never able to do with Linux -- get some work done! :-) > > I just wanted to share my story and say that I was happy to be amongst the > freebsd-newbies. See you online. > > Tom Hines > Rockville, MD > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ################################ Ryan Dirmeyer http://207.212.134.233/~rd64pro ################################ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 17:51:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE40B37B702 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rd64pro@pacbell.net) Received: from ryan.pacbell.net ([207.212.134.233]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FVE0077VFLPZG@mta2.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:37:37 -0700 From: Ryan Subject: Re: In-reply-to: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Reply-To: rd64pro@pacbell.net Message-id: <00053007442102.00224@ryan.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, welcome aboard Tom! Maybe it's nothing, but I think us FreeBSD users are just downright happier people. We realize we have a great OS on our hands and we're very appreciative (and also very willing to lend a hand to fellow users). Enjoy! Ryan > Linux convert here. I ran Linux for several years. I tried Redhat 5.2, > Redhat 6.0, Mandrake 6.0, and finally Redhat 6.1. I wanted to try Debian, but > they were too slow getting out a release with the 2.2 kernel. My goal was to > give up Windows entirely, but I couldn't because my ppp connection was > unreliable in Linux. > > I started eyeballing FreeBSD about a year ago and really wanted to try it. > The ppp situation in Linux finally made me switch. I spent all day Saturday > installing and configuring 4.0-RELEASE. All went smoothly. I had a little > trouble getting my ppp connection configured, but once up, it ran great. > > My verdict? I love it! Now I'm back where I was with Linux, with my blackbox > window manager and all my favorite dock apps, although I'm taking a serious > look at gkrellm (http://gkrellm.net) as a replacement for those :-). > > I can't wait to get back home to continue tweaking it and do the one thing I > was never able to do with Linux -- get some work done! :-) > > I just wanted to share my story and say that I was happy to be amongst the > freebsd-newbies. See you online. > > Tom Hines > Rockville, MD > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ################################ Ryan Dirmeyer http://207.212.134.233/~rd64pro ################################ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 17:51:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A85637BDCC for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rd64pro@pacbell.net) Received: from ryan.pacbell.net ([207.212.134.233]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FVE0077VFLPZG@mta2.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 17:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:41:29 -0700 From: Ryan Subject: Re: In-reply-to: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Reply-To: rd64pro@pacbell.net Message-id: <00053007442102.00224@ryan.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <20000530144236.4912.qmail@nwcst316.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, welcome aboard Tom! Maybe it's nothing, but I think us FreeBSD users are just downright happier people. We realize we have a great OS on our hands and we're very appreciative (and also very willing to lend a hand to fellow users). Enjoy! Ryan > Linux convert here. I ran Linux for several years. I tried Redhat 5.2, > Redhat 6.0, Mandrake 6.0, and finally Redhat 6.1. I wanted to try Debian, but > they were too slow getting out a release with the 2.2 kernel. My goal was to > give up Windows entirely, but I couldn't because my ppp connection was > unreliable in Linux. > > I started eyeballing FreeBSD about a year ago and really wanted to try it. > The ppp situation in Linux finally made me switch. I spent all day Saturday > installing and configuring 4.0-RELEASE. All went smoothly. I had a little > trouble getting my ppp connection configured, but once up, it ran great. > > My verdict? I love it! Now I'm back where I was with Linux, with my blackbox > window manager and all my favorite dock apps, although I'm taking a serious > look at gkrellm (http://gkrellm.net) as a replacement for those :-). > > I can't wait to get back home to continue tweaking it and do the one thing I > was never able to do with Linux -- get some work done! :-) > > I just wanted to share my story and say that I was happy to be amongst the > freebsd-newbies. See you online. > > Tom Hines > Rockville, MD > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ################################ Ryan Dirmeyer http://207.212.134.233/~rd64pro ################################ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 18: 3:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ida.net (mail.ida.net [204.228.203.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 069A337B7BA for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ares@ida.net) Received: (qmail 18318 invoked from network); 31 May 2000 01:03:17 -0000 Received: from pm-pt4-1.ida.net (HELO arescomputer) (208.141.181.154) by mail.ida.net with SMTP; 31 May 2000 01:03:17 -0000 Message-ID: <002701bfcaa4$2da68bc0$9ab58dd0@arescomputer> From: "Bryan Otteson" To: References: Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:01:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know I sound like a retard, but I've only been trying to mess around with a unix-style machine for a couple of weeks now, so humor me. What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? me, b To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 18: 8:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mgw2.MEIway.com (mgw2.meiway.com [212.73.210.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0809437BE0E for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lconrad@go2france.com) Received: from memphis.go2france.com (dnas-04-30.sat.idworld.net [209.142.68.100]) by mgw2.MEIway.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id 836721DD for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 05:28:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000530200956.00e91ba0@mail.go2france.com> X-Sender: lconrad%go2france.com@mail.go2france.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:13:10 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Len Conrad Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <002701bfcaa4$2da68bc0$9ab58dd0@arescomputer> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? A machine that connects one network to another network, InterNet working, creating a "network of networks". Such a machine has ip routing/forwarding enabled in rc.conf. Len To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 18:15:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C301337BE0C for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from genisis@istar.ca) Received: from ip167.kingston.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.64.167]) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12wx6x-00013G-00; Tue, 30 May 2000 21:15:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:17:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Dru To: Bryan Otteson Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <002701bfcaa4$2da68bc0$9ab58dd0@arescomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1914960711-959735868=:2514" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1914960711-959735868=:2514 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 30 May 2000, Bryan Otteson wrote: > I know I sound like a retard, but I've only been trying to mess around with > a unix-style machine for a couple of weeks now, so humor me. > What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? The attached file is an good explanation from an excellent website for those tech terms you're not quite sure on, www.whatis.com Always is the first place I look when I want to find out info on tech terms, as you usually get a decent definition and some URLs to sites with more info. Cheers, Dru --0-1914960711-959735868=:2514 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="network.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="network.txt" DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgbmV0d29yaw0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCiAgIElu IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRlY2hub2xvZ3ksIGEgbmV0d29yayBpcyBhIHNlcmll cyBvZiBwb2ludHMgb3Igbm9kZXMNCiAgIGludGVyY29ubmVjdGVkIGJ5IGNv bW11bmljYXRpb24gcGF0aHMuIE5ldHdvcmtzIGNhbiBpbnRlcmNvbm5lY3Qg d2l0aA0KICAgb3RoZXIgbmV0d29ya3MgYW5kIGNvbnRhaW4gc3VibmV0d29y a3MuDQogICANCiAgIFRoZSBtb3N0IGNvbW1vbiB0b3BvbG9naWVzIG9yIGdl bmVyYWwgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbnMgb2YgbmV0d29ya3MNCiAgIGluY2x1ZGUg dGhlIGJ1cywgc3RhciwgYW5kIHJpbmcgdG9wb2xvZ2llcy4gTmV0d29ya3Mg Y2FuIGFsc28gYmUNCiAgIGNoYXJhY3Rlcml6ZWQgaW4gdGVybXMgb2Ygc3Bh dGlhbCBkaXN0YW5jZSBhcyBsb2NhbCBhcmVhIG5ldHdvcmtzDQogICAoTEFO cyksIG1ldHJvcG9saXRhbiBhcmVhIG5ldHdvcmtzIChNQU5zKSwgYW5kIHdp ZGUgYXJlYSBuZXR3b3Jrcw0KICAgKFdBTnMpLg0KICAgDQogICBBIGdpdmVu IG5ldHdvcmsgY2FuIGFsc28gYmUgY2hhcmFjdGVyaXplZCBieSB0aGUgdHlw ZSBvZiBkYXRhDQogICB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gdGVjaG5vbG9neSBpbiB1c2Ug b24gaXQgKGZvciBleGFtcGxlLCBhIFRDUC9JUCBvciBTTkENCiAgIG5ldHdv cmspOyBieSB3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGNhcnJpZXMgdm9pY2UsIGRhdGEsIG9yIGJv dGgga2luZHMgb2Ygc2lnbmFsczsNCiAgIGJ5IHdobyBjYW4gdXNlIHRoZSBu ZXR3b3JrIChwdWJsaWMgb3IgcHJpdmF0ZSk7IGJ5IHRoZSB1c3VhbCBuYXR1 cmUgb2YNCiAgIGl0cyBjb25uZWN0aW9ucyAoZGlhbC11cCBvciBzd2l0Y2hl ZCwgZGVkaWNhdGVkIG9yIG5vbnN3aXRjaGVkLCBvcg0KICAgdmlydHVhbCBj b25uZWN0aW9ucyk7IGFuZCBieSB0aGUgdHlwZXMgb2YgcGh5c2ljYWwgbGlu a3MgKGZvciBleGFtcGxlLA0KICAgb3B0aWNhbCBmaWJlciwgY29heGlhbCBj YWJsZSwgYW5kIGNvcHBlciB3aXJlKS4gTGFyZ2UgdGVsZXBob25lDQogICBu ZXR3b3JrcyBhbmQgbmV0d29ya3MgdXNpbmcgdGhlaXIgaW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1 cmUgKHN1Y2ggYXMgdGhlDQogICBJbnRlcm5ldCkgaGF2ZSBzaGFyaW5nIGFu ZCBleGNoYW5nZSBhcnJhbmdlbWVudHMgd2l0aCBvdGhlciBjb21wYW5pZXMN CiAgIHNvIHRoYXQgbGFyZ2VyIG5ldHdvcmtzIGFyZSBjcmVhdGVkLg0K --0-1914960711-959735868=:2514-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 18:18:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D81237BE49 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from genisis@istar.ca) Received: from ip167.kingston.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.64.167]) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12wx9g-00022T-00; Tue, 30 May 2000 21:18:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dru To: Bryan Otteson Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1491206409-959736038=:2514" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1491206409-959736038=:2514 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry about that, sent the wrong attachment. I need more coffee..... Dru On Tue, 30 May 2000, Dru wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2000, Bryan Otteson wrote: > > > I know I sound like a retard, but I've only been trying to mess around with > > a unix-style machine for a couple of weeks now, so humor me. > > What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? > > The attached file is an good explanation from an excellent website for > those tech terms you're not quite sure on, > > www.whatis.com > > Always is the first place I look when I want to find out info on tech > terms, as you usually get a decent definition and some URLs to sites with > more info. > > Cheers, > > Dru > > --0-1491206409-959736038=:2514 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="router.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="router.txt" DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHJvdXRlcg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCiAgIEFs c28gc2VlIGJyaWRnZSwgZ2F0ZXdheSwgaHViLCBhbmQgc3dpdGNoLg0KICAg DQogICBPbiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQsIGEgcm91dGVyIGlzIGEgZGV2aWNlIG9y LCBpbiBzb21lIGNhc2VzLCBzb2Z0d2FyZSBpbiBhDQogICBjb21wdXRlciwg dGhhdCBkZXRlcm1pbmVzIHRoZSBuZXh0IG5ldHdvcmsgcG9pbnQgdG8gd2hp Y2ggYSBwYWNrZXQNCiAgIHNob3VsZCBiZSBmb3J3YXJkZWQgdG93YXJkIGl0 cyBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbi4gVGhlIHJvdXRlciBpcyBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8NCiAg IGF0IGxlYXN0IHR3byBuZXR3b3JrcyBhbmQgZGVjaWRlcyB3aGljaCB3YXkg dG8gc2VuZCBlYWNoIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uDQogICBwYWNrZXQgYmFzZWQgb24g aXRzIGN1cnJlbnQgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBvZiB0aGUgc3RhdGUgb2YgdGhl IG5ldHdvcmtzDQogICBpdCBpcyBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8uIEEgcm91dGVyIGlz IGxvY2F0ZWQgYXQgYW55IGp1bmN0dXJlIG9mIG5ldHdvcmtzIG9yDQogICBn YXRld2F5LCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgZWFjaCBJbnRlcm5ldCBwb2ludC1vZi1wcmVz ZW5jZS4gQSByb3V0ZXIgaXMgb2Z0ZW4NCiAgIGluY2x1ZGVkIGFzIHBhcnQg b2YgYSBuZXR3b3JrIHN3aXRjaC4NCiAgIA0KICAgQSByb3V0ZXIgY3JlYXRl cyBvciBtYWludGFpbnMgYSB0YWJsZSBvZiB0aGUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIHJvdXRl cyBhbmQNCiAgIHRoZWlyIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMgYW5kIHVzZXMgdGhpcyBpbmZv cm1hdGlvbiBhbG9uZyB3aXRoIGRpc3RhbmNlIGFuZA0KICAgY29zdCBhbGdv cml0aG1zIHRvIGRldGVybWluZSB0aGUgYmVzdCByb3V0ZSBmb3IgYSBnaXZl biBwYWNrZXQuDQogICBUeXBpY2FsbHksIGEgcGFja2V0IG1heSB0cmF2ZWwg dGhyb3VnaCBhIG51bWJlciBvZiBuZXR3b3JrIHBvaW50cyB3aXRoDQogICBy b3V0ZXJzIGJlZm9yZSBhcnJpdmluZyBhdCBpdHMgZGVzdGluYXRpb24uIEFu IGVkZ2Ugcm91dGVyIGlzIGEgcm91dGVyDQogICB0aGF0IGludGVyZmFjZXMg d2l0aCBhbiBhc3luY2hyb25vdXMgdHJhbnNmZXIgbW9kZSAoQVRNKSBuZXR3 b3JrLiBBDQogICBicm91dGVyIGlzIGEgbmV0d29yayBicmlkZ2UgY29tYmlu ZWQgd2l0aCBhIHJvdXRlci4NCg== --0-1491206409-959736038=:2514-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 18:21:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A217537BDB3 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04280; Wed, 31 May 2000 11:21:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdHB4278; Wed May 31 11:21:24 2000 Message-ID: <046301bfca9e$a3ba1cb0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Bryan Otteson" , References: <002701bfcaa4$2da68bc0$9ab58dd0@arescomputer> Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:22:06 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I know I sound like a retard, but I've only been trying to mess around with > a unix-style machine for a couple of weeks now, so humor me. > > What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? > The term "gateway" in this context is synonomous with "router" as far as I can gather. Basically people who have a LAN connected to the internet find it beneficial to have a machine dedicated to running the connection. All the setups I'm working with have plenty of public range IP addresses, so there isn't a need to mess around with network address translation etc. The actual "gateway" machine doesn't need to be particularly powerful ..... even a 386 will work fine because apart from forwarding the odd packet here & there its not doing anything much. For what its worth, the last time I asked I was told even the horribly expensive Cisco router thingies only have 386 CPU's. This sort of thing is FreeBSD's forte .... its at least as stable as the commercial unixes & if all its gonna do is sit in a corner someplace and more often than not never get looked at then the price is right :) For workstation use I prefer commercial unixes like SCO & Solaris which come with "proper" window managers, unlike the awfully tacky & buggy KDE / Gnome disaster cases. There are a bunch of alternative ones that the more experienced users around here recommend. I've never bothered since the mailing list archives suggest there are countless problems with FreeBSD window managers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue May 30 19: 7:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEF937BE87 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 19:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877981560F; Tue, 30 May 2000 22:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA16151; Tue, 30 May 2000 21:55:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: <393425AB.42CABC8E@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > Thomas Good wrote: > > > Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system > > initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or > > Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the > > development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut > > Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. > > I was meaning something a little different. Of course, underneath, all > of the linuces are similar. However, over the top of that they all have > a different veneer. For someone who doesn't know Unix inside and out, > that veneer becomes important. They won't know each and every > configuration file by heart. They won't know that Redhat stores foo.rc > under /etc/foo while SuSE stores it under /etc/bar. So they'll do what > the manual tells them to do, and fire up Linuxconf, or YaST, or COAS, or > SAS, or whatever. This is the veneer, and it doesn't matter how much you David, I don't use linuxconf, YAST, Gnome Control Center (or whatever it's called), CDE, the UnixWare desktop or /stand/sysinstall (after installation). I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. I don't like the Redhat thing of putting postgres stuff in /var/lib for example. So I don't use RPMs. I grab the src and do the build and put the binaries in /usr/local/pgsql. Where they belong in my view! It's the same with most any unix - you can pay the vendor for their prefab binaries or do it yerself. I prefer the latter. And it works on *any* linux or freebsd box. Once you get the concepts where they put the conf files isn't that important. I don't think its that tuff to get what you want from unix. But it takes some time to see the *big picture*. And here is my real point (ignore the one atop my head ;-) It is *easier* to learn unix when you use more than one implementation. Can I explain this clearly? I dunno...lemme try. UnixWare, my first unix (yeah what a way to get deflowered!) was a complete mystery to me for awhile. So I learned some linux, against the advice of my mentor ("You've got enought on your plate.") Then it began to click. So I procured Solaris, and FreeBSD - tried AIX too. The more ways I saw - of doing the same thing - the more sense the overall concept made. The ttymon process (for system logins) made alot more sense to me after I learned getty/uugetty. Hopefully I haven't explained this too badly. I tell my wife (a linguist) this: English grammar was utterly meaningless to me until I got a handle on German. Then I had an 'aha!' experience. Same with unix. Learning one set of rules was learning by rote. Comparing two systems - and appreciating both - was achieving a deeper understanding that transformed feeling sort of competent into feeling a great fondness for my favourite OS. > know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And > unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only > work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless > when you're faced with a Mandrake box. We are in agreement here my friend. It is like learning WordPerfect as opposed to vi. ;-) > To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX > is from HPUX. I think you overstate a bit here, d-man... > [ snip ... ] but at least you're learning generic all-purpose > Unix instead of locking yourselves into a single distro. I disagree here...why? All the linuxes are is a kernel, a filesystem, a whole bunch of great GNU code and an initialisation strategy. Add in one or more package managers. Sounds like FreeBSD to me. ;-) No RedHatter has to use linuxconf or Gnome...No FBSDer has to use sysinstall. You can lift the hood on any unix you want. Use tarballs and gcc instead of pkg_add or rpm -i. Right? And if you think the FBSD conf resembles Solaris or UnixWare, I dunno about that one. And UnixWare is *AT&T Unix* - about as standard (in theory anyhoo) as unix gets. (Before Novell and SCO got ahold of it anyway. ;-) Bottom line: unix is unix. Maybe a diff paint job... but the similarities are greater than the differences. When I hear that FBSD is more unix than linux is, I am reminded of the old Japanese proverb: Every reverse side has a reverse side. ;-) Speaking of which, I gotta get my reverse side into gear! Nice talking to you David, Tom ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 5:27:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53ABD37B86F for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 05:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jswarner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 35655 invoked by alias); 31 May 2000 12:27:28 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 35636 invoked by uid 0); 31 May 2000 12:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uswest.net) (63.224.105.188) by slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 May 2000 12:27:28 -0000 Message-ID: <39350458.54A4EC2@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:23:52 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dru Cc: Bryan Otteson , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dru, Thanks for the excellent reference (www.whatis.com)! Like me, I'm sure most of us that weren't aware of this site are most appreciative! 8^) Joe Dru wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2000, Bryan Otteson wrote: > > > I know I sound like a retard, but I've only been trying to mess around with > > a unix-style machine for a couple of weeks now, so humor me. > > What's a "gateway" computer, or setup, or whatever? > > The attached file is an good explanation from an excellent website for > those tech terms you're not quite sure on, > > www.whatis.com > > Always is the first place I look when I want to find out info on tech > terms, as you usually get a decent definition and some URLs to sites with > more info. > > Cheers, > > Dru > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: network.txt > network.txt Type: Plain Text (TEXT/PLAIN) > Encoding: BASE64 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 5:54:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C3BA37B60B for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 05:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jswarner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 44439 invoked by alias); 31 May 2000 12:54:01 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 44412 invoked by uid 0); 31 May 2000 12:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uswest.net) (63.224.105.188) by slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 May 2000 12:53:59 -0000 Message-ID: <39350A90.302A2A63@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:50:24 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: David Johnson , outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been playing around with Linux (RH 5.1-6.1 & Caldera 2.2-2.3) for about 2 years now. I even joined a local LUG (linux users group). During one meeting, Wes Peters, who (among other duties) writes "The Daemon's Advocate" for Daemon News ---- http://www.daemonnews.org/200005/dadvocate.html, gave a presentation on FreeBSD and handed out free copies of the FreeBSD 3.4 release. After taking it home and installing it and running it for the first time, it struck me how FreeBSD just seemed to make more sense to me than Linux. I forwarded these thoughts onto Wes, along with my thanks and he responded by saying, "Yeah, me too. FreeBSD acts more like a cohesive whole where Linux has slices of brilliance along with other less desirable pieces." At the meeting, I remember him saying, "The Linux community, along with the open source movement is trying to save the world. The FreeBSD community is only trying to save the geeks!" 8^) Joe Thomas Good wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > > > Thomas Good wrote: > > > > > Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system > > > initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or > > > Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the > > > development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut > > > Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. > > > > I was meaning something a little different. Of course, underneath, all > > of the linuces are similar. However, over the top of that they all have > > a different veneer. For someone who doesn't know Unix inside and out, > > that veneer becomes important. They won't know each and every > > configuration file by heart. They won't know that Redhat stores foo.rc > > under /etc/foo while SuSE stores it under /etc/bar. So they'll do what > > the manual tells them to do, and fire up Linuxconf, or YaST, or COAS, or > > SAS, or whatever. This is the veneer, and it doesn't matter how much you > > David, > > I don't use linuxconf, YAST, Gnome Control Center (or whatever it's called), > CDE, the UnixWare desktop or /stand/sysinstall (after installation). > > I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where > I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much > the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. > > I don't like the Redhat thing of putting postgres stuff in /var/lib for > example. So I don't use RPMs. I grab the src and do the build and put > the binaries in /usr/local/pgsql. Where they belong in my view! > > It's the same with most any unix - you can pay the vendor for their > prefab binaries or do it yerself. I prefer the latter. And it works > on *any* linux or freebsd box. Once you get the concepts where they > put the conf files isn't that important. > > I don't think its that tuff to get what you want from unix. But it > takes some time to see the *big picture*. > > And here is my real point (ignore the one atop my head ;-) > It is *easier* to learn unix when you use more than one implementation. > Can I explain this clearly? I dunno...lemme try. > > UnixWare, my first unix (yeah what a way to get deflowered!) was a complete > mystery to me for awhile. So I learned some linux, against the advice > of my mentor ("You've got enought on your plate.") > > Then it began to click. So I procured Solaris, and FreeBSD - tried AIX too. > The more ways I saw - of doing the same thing - the more sense the overall > concept made. The ttymon process (for system logins) made alot more sense > to me after I learned getty/uugetty. Hopefully I haven't explained this > too badly. I tell my wife (a linguist) this: English grammar was utterly > meaningless to me until I got a handle on German. Then I had an 'aha!' > experience. Same with unix. Learning one set of rules was learning by > rote. Comparing two systems - and appreciating both - was achieving > a deeper understanding that transformed feeling sort of competent into > feeling a great fondness for my favourite OS. > > > know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And > > unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only > > work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless > > when you're faced with a Mandrake box. > > We are in agreement here my friend. It is like learning WordPerfect > as opposed to vi. ;-) > > > To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX > > is from HPUX. > > I think you overstate a bit here, d-man... > > > [ snip ... ] but at least you're learning generic all-purpose > > Unix instead of locking yourselves into a single distro. > > I disagree here...why? All the linuxes are is a kernel, a > filesystem, a whole bunch of great GNU code and an initialisation > strategy. Add in one or more package managers. Sounds like FreeBSD > to me. ;-) > > No RedHatter has to use linuxconf or Gnome...No FBSDer has to use > sysinstall. You can lift the hood on any unix you want. Use tarballs > and gcc instead of pkg_add or rpm -i. Right? > > And if you think the FBSD conf resembles Solaris or UnixWare, I dunno > about that one. And UnixWare is *AT&T Unix* - about as standard (in > theory anyhoo) as unix gets. (Before Novell and SCO got ahold of it > anyway. ;-) Bottom line: unix is unix. Maybe a diff paint job... > but the similarities are greater than the differences. > > When I hear that FBSD is more unix than linux is, I am reminded of the > old Japanese proverb: Every reverse side has a reverse side. ;-) > Speaking of which, I gotta get my reverse side into gear! > > Nice talking to you David, > Tom > > ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- > > Thomas Good MIS Coordinator > Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org > Phone: 718-354-5528 > Fax: 718-354-5056 > > /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 7: 8:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B93237BC60 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 07:08:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D6730FA7; Wed, 31 May 2000 10:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA18159; Wed, 31 May 2000 09:34:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: Joe Warner Cc: David Johnson , outlawtx@bga.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: <39350A90.302A2A63@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 31 May 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > I've been playing around with Linux (RH 5.1-6.1 & Caldera 2.2-2.3) for about 2 > years now. I even joined a local LUG (linux users group). During one meeting, > Wes Peters, who (among other duties) writes "The Daemon's Advocate" for Daemon > News ---- http://www.daemonnews.org/200005/dadvocate.html, gave a presentation > on FreeBSD and handed out free copies of the FreeBSD 3.4 release. After taking > it home and installing it and running it for the first time, it struck me how > FreeBSD just seemed to make more sense to me than Linux. I forwarded these > thoughts onto Wes, along with my thanks and he responded by saying, "Yeah, me > too. FreeBSD acts more like a cohesive whole where Linux has slices of > brilliance along with other less desirable pieces." At the meeting, I remember Hiya Joe, Hmm...I don't know that buy this one. After all, once we move beyond the kernel and the /bin --- *sbin directories most of FreeBSD and Linux are GNU these days. I think people run what they want to run and come up with the rationale ex post facto. I truly think it is silly to say that you run one OS because you dislike another. I drive a Toyota because I like Toyota...it runs well, is reliable and I can wrench on it as I need to... FreeBSD has alot of stuff that reminds me of UnixWare, except of course that it works alot better. UnixWare is a white elephant (ATT -> Novell -> SCO). FBSD is simply a better OS. Is it better than Linux? Yes. It is more stable and definitely faster. It d*mn well better be. It has been around for 30 years in one form or another. Linux is an upstart. But if it wasn't viable, if it didn't capture the popular imagination, if it didn't have a ton of native applications we wouldn't be having this chat. After all, BSD has a linux emulator, not the other way around. What is that cliche about flattery??? When Larry Ellison ports to FBSD, followed by Sybase and Informix (and as a Johnny-Come-Lately, Borland) then it will have attained the same status as Linux in terms of it's place in the popular culture. Towards that end the integration of GNU into FBSD is a very good thing. It is happening much more quickly than in commercial unix. Good! I would prefer to see FBSD and Linux conquer the unix market, replacing even the old workhorses like DG-UX as well as the garbage implementations (like SCO OpenServer). I want FBSD to do well...I do NOT want to see it Sony Betamaxed out of the marketplace. But I don't run FBSD because I dislike Linux. ** I run FBSD because I like FBSD. And because I like Unix. ** > him saying, "The Linux community, along with the open source movement is trying > to save the world. The FreeBSD community is only trying to save the geeks!" > 8^) > > Joe > > > Thomas Good wrote: > > > On Tue, 30 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > > > > > Thomas Good wrote: > > > > > > > Basically the *only* difference between Linux distributions is system > > > > initialisation. RedHat is very System V. So if you know UnixWare or > > > > Solaris, RH is not *that* far off. Slackware is very BSD, in fact the > > > > development teams know one another and share ideas. After all, Walnut > > > > Creek is both their homes. SuSe and Debian are somewhere in the middle. > > > > > > I was meaning something a little different. Of course, underneath, all > > > of the linuces are similar. However, over the top of that they all have > > > a different veneer. For someone who doesn't know Unix inside and out, > > > that veneer becomes important. They won't know each and every > > > configuration file by heart. They won't know that Redhat stores foo.rc > > > under /etc/foo while SuSE stores it under /etc/bar. So they'll do what > > > the manual tells them to do, and fire up Linuxconf, or YaST, or COAS, or > > > SAS, or whatever. This is the veneer, and it doesn't matter how much you > > > > David, > > > > I don't use linuxconf, YAST, Gnome Control Center (or whatever it's called), > > CDE, the UnixWare desktop or /stand/sysinstall (after installation). > > > > I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where > > I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much > > the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. > > > > I don't like the Redhat thing of putting postgres stuff in /var/lib for > > example. So I don't use RPMs. I grab the src and do the build and put > > the binaries in /usr/local/pgsql. Where they belong in my view! > > > > It's the same with most any unix - you can pay the vendor for their > > prefab binaries or do it yerself. I prefer the latter. And it works > > on *any* linux or freebsd box. Once you get the concepts where they > > put the conf files isn't that important. > > > > I don't think its that tuff to get what you want from unix. But it > > takes some time to see the *big picture*. > > > > And here is my real point (ignore the one atop my head ;-) > > It is *easier* to learn unix when you use more than one implementation. > > Can I explain this clearly? I dunno...lemme try. > > > > UnixWare, my first unix (yeah what a way to get deflowered!) was a complete > > mystery to me for awhile. So I learned some linux, against the advice > > of my mentor ("You've got enought on your plate.") > > > > Then it began to click. So I procured Solaris, and FreeBSD - tried AIX too. > > The more ways I saw - of doing the same thing - the more sense the overall > > concept made. The ttymon process (for system logins) made alot more sense > > to me after I learned getty/uugetty. Hopefully I haven't explained this > > too badly. I tell my wife (a linguist) this: English grammar was utterly > > meaningless to me until I got a handle on German. Then I had an 'aha!' > > experience. Same with unix. Learning one set of rules was learning by > > rote. Comparing two systems - and appreciating both - was achieving > > a deeper understanding that transformed feeling sort of competent into > > feeling a great fondness for my favourite OS. > > > > > know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And > > > unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only > > > work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless > > > when you're faced with a Mandrake box. > > > > We are in agreement here my friend. It is like learning WordPerfect > > as opposed to vi. ;-) > > > > > To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX > > > is from HPUX. > > > > I think you overstate a bit here, d-man... > > > > > [ snip ... ] but at least you're learning generic all-purpose > > > Unix instead of locking yourselves into a single distro. > > > > I disagree here...why? All the linuxes are is a kernel, a > > filesystem, a whole bunch of great GNU code and an initialisation > > strategy. Add in one or more package managers. Sounds like FreeBSD > > to me. ;-) > > > > No RedHatter has to use linuxconf or Gnome...No FBSDer has to use > > sysinstall. You can lift the hood on any unix you want. Use tarballs > > and gcc instead of pkg_add or rpm -i. Right? > > > > And if you think the FBSD conf resembles Solaris or UnixWare, I dunno > > about that one. And UnixWare is *AT&T Unix* - about as standard (in > > theory anyhoo) as unix gets. (Before Novell and SCO got ahold of it > > anyway. ;-) Bottom line: unix is unix. Maybe a diff paint job... > > but the similarities are greater than the differences. > > > > When I hear that FBSD is more unix than linux is, I am reminded of the > > old Japanese proverb: Every reverse side has a reverse side. ;-) > > Speaking of which, I gotta get my reverse side into gear! > > > > Nice talking to you David, > > Tom > > > > ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- > > > > Thomas Good MIS Coordinator > > Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org > > Phone: 718-354-5528 > > Fax: 718-354-5056 > > > > /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 8:53: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E837337B663 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A4A30FA2; Wed, 31 May 2000 11:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA19092; Wed, 31 May 2000 11:27:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:27:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: Gabriel Ambuehl Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: <6318931011.20000530220935@buz.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 30 May 2000, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: > FreeBSD OTOH lacks such a thing as YaST forcing the user to learn the > system but afterwards he at least understands what his system's doing. Did YAST *force* you to use it, Gabriel? ;-) I haven't run SuSe in a long time - and briefly at that but I never fired up YAST...one thing I find useful is to look at the src behind the interfaces and see what the vendor is up to...then do it myself. I don't use linuxconf now - although I have some redhat workstations. BTW, I guess you didn't feel as coerced by sysinstall on FBSD? It does a number of IF functions - post install - similar to Slackware Setup, SuSe YAST, RedHat Linuxconf...so on. It doesn't attempt to be a complete interface but it does do alot, if you don't want to look under the hood. You know the UnixWare docs would lead one to believe that the desktop is the only way to setup a UW box. Odd, I never used it nor did I use the sysadm program in char mode. DIY is the way. > I actually found Linux to be better documented but if you spent the > money for The Complete FreeBSD, everything should go very well. The > SuSE manual, OTOH, is just some kind of installation bible with 500 > pages and some other stuff. Never found anything about .profile and > such stuff... The 'official' docs are the worst. After market stuff (i.e., Tim O'Reilly) is the best. Actually, I'd rather spend my time lobbying O'Reilly to write about FBSD than argue Linux v. FBSD which I view as silly. I am eager to acquire a small tome like 'FBSD in a nutshell.' I don't want to read reams of paper --- a brief book like the nutshell series is good. And I really don't need something that tells me how to use sysinstall. ;-) > Best regards, > Gabriel Take care... > [1] RPM, especially BINARY, is actually the worst thing in SuSE, IMHO. I am not now, nor have I ever been - a Redhat Package Mangler user! Yuck. The unix deity gave us cc and make so we wouldn't have to use some proprietary garbage...I like RedHat scripts here and there and am happy to ripoff some good ideas. But in general they are way too heavy handed. RedHat is a great example of what Pat Volkerding refers to when he talks about 'dumbing down an OS' (this month's Linux Journal) so as to pander to people who really don't want unix to begin with. Cheers, Tom ------- North Richmond Community Mental Health Center ------- Thomas Good MIS Coordinator Vital Signs: tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 /* Member: Computer Professionals For Social Responsibility */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 9: 0:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from crli.com (mail-gat.crli.com [207.112.165.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4B68437BEAB for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 09:00:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crli@crli.com) Received: from CORP#u#DOM-Message_Server by crli.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 31 May 2000 10:58:33 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:58:09 -0500 From: "Joe Walsh" To: tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Did YAST *force* you to use it, Gabriel? ;-) If I may jump in here, I may have something useful to add. While I'm no = SuSE expert, I did use that distribution for quite a while. It was my = experience that YAST could be avoided for day-to-day management, but if = you wanted to do an upgrade via their regular CD releases, you'd end up = with YAST. What that means is that all the settings YAST keeps in its own = setup files would end up in your text config files around the disk, = overwriting your own carefully-designed config files. =20 So, no, you're not forced to use YAST, but you're better off using it for = all the services it offers if you have SuSE installed and want to take = advantage of the convenience of updating via their 6-CD distribution sets = as I did. Have a good one, -Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 11: 8:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBC637BE62 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7066215569; Wed, 31 May 2000 14:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA19512; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:03:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: Joe Walsh Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re[2]: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 31 May 2000, Joe Walsh wrote: > > Did YAST *force* you to use it, Gabriel? ;-) > > If I may jump in here, I may have something useful to add. While I'm no SuSE expert, I did use that distribution for quite a while. It was my experience that YAST could be avoided for day-to-day management, but if you wanted to do an upgrade via their regular CD releases, you'd end up with YAST. What that means is that all the settings YAST keeps in its own setup files would end up in your text config files around the disk, overwriting your own carefully-designed config files. > > So, no, you're not forced to use YAST, but you're better off using it for all the services it offers if you have SuSE installed and want to take advantage of the convenience of updating via their 6-CD distribution sets as I did. > > > Have a good one, > > -Joe They also have the redhat ailment as regards shoving the postgres stuff into /var/lib. This is irritating to me. Postgres is not part of SuSe or Redhat --- it is a killer app --- that should be installed in the /usr/local (/pgsql) dir. This is one area where FBSD is superior: they don't put apps in odd places, most packages seem to end up in /usr/local/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- SVCMC - Center for Behavioral Health -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Good tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org IS Coordinator / DBA Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: PostgreSQL s l a c k w a r e FreeBSD: RDBMS |---------- linux The Power To Serve -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 12:47:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.root-servers.ch (alpha.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E292B37BF2D for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 12:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 11612 invoked from network); 31 May 2000 19:49:14 -0000 Received: from client99-59.hispeed.ch (62.2.99.59) by ns1.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 31 May 2000 19:49:14 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:48:40 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (1.42) Business Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <187104076694.20000531214840@buz.ch> To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re[4]: Some food for thought...(aka rant of the day) In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> FreeBSD OTOH lacks such a thing as YaST forcing the user to learn the >> system but afterwards he at least understands what his system's doing. > Did YAST *force* you to use it, Gabriel? ;-) Argh. But I think you guys know what I mean. > BTW, I guess you didn't feel as coerced by sysinstall on FBSD? That one's atleast documented and marks the changes it makes to rc.conf. It's not as featurerich as YaST but does it's job quite well. A frontend to ipfw would have helped me at the beginning but now I prefer to mess around with it directly. > The 'official' docs are the worst. After market stuff (i.e., Tim > O'Reilly) is the best. Actually, I'd rather spend my time lobbying > O'Reilly to write about FBSD than argue Linux v. FBSD which I view > as silly. I am eager to acquire a small tome like 'FBSD in a nutshell.' > I don't want to read reams of paper --- a brief book like the nutshell > series is good. plz add me too Make it so, O'Reilly! Books are still a lot more comfortable to read than online docs. > And I really don't need something that tells me how to use sysinstall. ;-) True enough. The whole topic of installation could be left out, IMHO. That one is covered quite good in Greg's book... > to when he talks about 'dumbing down an OS' (this month's Linux Journal) > so as to pander to people who really don't want unix to begin with. ACK. Best regards, Gabriel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 13:30:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51DE637B877 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA2853; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:31:40 -0700 Message-ID: <393575D8.E311AF48@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:28:08 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where > I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much > the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. Some people don't have the time to do this. I have a mere 400Mhz AMD, and compiling everything I have on my box would take a dozen hours or more. My general rule of thumb is to install binaries if they are available with the OS. If I need to go and specifically download something, then I'll compile it. > > know the Corel veneer, it won't do you any good for SuSE or Debian. And > > unlike typical open source software, these administration tools only > > work for the distro they're designed for. Proficiency in YaST is useless > > when you're faced with a Mandrake box. > > We are in agreement here my friend. It is like learning WordPerfect > as opposed to vi. ;-) You can't argue with the flexibility of the vi reveal codes :-) > > To the average Linux user, Debian is as different from Caldera as IRIX > > is from HPUX. > > I think you overstate a bit here, d-man... Yes, I may have used a bit of hyperbole. But I mean the *average* user. Otherwise known as the person who doesn't see the Big Unix Picture yet. This includes my Mom, my best friend, my neighbor and the guy two cubicles down. It also includes a lot of Unix developers! Think about it, if you've never done any adminstration before, most stuff in /etc is pretty incomprehensible. The popularity of the free unices is making a lot of people be their own sysadmins for the very first time. Because these people often just want to browse the web or write a document, they don't want to spend weeks getting up to speed on the ins and outs of networking or X Window configuration. Just as we don't expect that all drivers know how to tune up their cars, we shouldn't expect every Unix user to be a sysadmin. This is where the Linuxconfs and YaSTs are important. But it needs to be taken one step further, so that Linuxconf can be used on SuSE and YaST can be used on Redhat, and that neither gets in the way of the knowledgable sysadmin. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 13:54:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD1637B683 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA361C; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:55:55 -0700 Message-ID: <39357B87.9CDF9328@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:52:23 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...(OT?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > Hmm...I don't know that buy this one. After all, once we move beyond the > kernel and the /bin --- *sbin directories most of FreeBSD and Linux are GNU > these days. But once you get out of /bin and /sbin we aren't talking about the OS anymore. So it doesn't matter much how much is GNU or not. The kernel and the bare essential infrastructure around it comprise the OS, and meets the dictionary definition of operating system, despite protestations by RMS. So a lot of /bin isn't really the OS to begin with either. And yes, the conclusion that I believe the same about FreeBSD is correct. I view it as the FreeBSD OS plus the FreeBSD core distribution plus the FreeBSD ports collection. Wasn't it also Wes Peters who said FreeBSD is nothing more than a boot loader for emacs? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 21:48:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsmtp6.dion.ne.jp (dsmtp6.dion.ne.jp [210.196.3.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4489D37BA80 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 21:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mtoshida@d6.dion.ne.jp) Received: from d6.dion.ne.jp by dsmtp6.dion.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00031710) id NAA25478; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:48:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3935EA98.D5D49FC2@d6.dion.ne.jp> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 13:46:17 +0900 From: Morihiro Toshida X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: ja,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lh87098 Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPXU4QCROJCo1YSRhGyhC?= References: <39322055.67BC6FE1@mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org lh87098 wrote: > > 　ごく最近FreeBSDを使い始めた文科系の韓国の留学生です。 > 　実はWindowsもよくしりませんが、Windowsの日本語のソフトに韓国語 > 　環境が備わってないことに甚だしい失望と憤りを感じてUNIXに > 　関心を持つようになりまして、少し勉強していますが、 > 　文書作成の多国語環境の構築が、うまくいっておりません。Ｃを習いながら > 　やってみようと思いますが、初歩者のためか、非常に効率が > 　悪いです。FreeBSDでやろうと思ったら、まずどれをやればいいでしょうか。 > 　自分の使おうとする言語は、日本語、韓国語、ロシア語、古典ギリシア語 > 　程度です。初心者にやさしい方法があれば、お教えいただきたいです。 > 　では、ふしつけでありながら、お願いいたします。 > > 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　金　　春　　和 > 　 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message If you need the following envelopment, Japanese, Korean, Russian and Greek with FreeBSD, why don't you read http://home.jp.FreeBSD.ORG/cgi-bin/showmail/FreeBSD-users-jp/43434 There is an answer on the above URL for you. At first, you must find the fonts you need. Then you need to install them are required of the system like the following web page. http://www.jp.freebsd.org/www.FreeBSD.org/ja/handbook/l10n.html#RUSSIAN By the way, http://www.personal-media.co.jp/welcome-e.html If you are interested in Multi language operation system named Btron. Check the above web page out. The latest version of the OS supports great features for input and output in Mult language. I hear the function works on the regulation named TAD (TRON Application Data bus) http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/homepage.html http://www.sennetOS.com/ http://www.personal-media.co.jp/btron/catalog/ck1.html http://www.personal-media.co.jp/btron/developer/index.html Morihiro Toshida -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender : Morihiro Toshida e-mail : mailto:mtoshida@d6.dion.ne.jp web site: http://www.d6.dion.ne.jp/~mtoshida/ icq # : 68075094 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed May 31 22:53:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from giasbma.vsnl.net.in (giasbma.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B7E537BFB8 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 22:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rohit@ieee.org) Received: from vader (unknown [203.197.54.135]) by giasbma.vsnl.net.in (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D8D96B2BB for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:25:36 +0000 (IST) Message-ID: <002301bfcb8d$839e9a60$8736c5cb@vader.com> From: "Rohit Sharma" To: Subject: digest mode Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:22:03 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, How do i set majordomo to send me freebsd-newbies in digest mode? -rohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 1:21:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id DB10237BE9F; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 01:21:54 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Confirmation for subscribe freebsd-newbies Reply-To: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <20000601082154.DB10237BE9F@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 01:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -- Please be sure to read the charters before subscribing or sending mail to any FreeBSD mailing list for an explanation of which topics are relevant for a given list and what types of postings are and are not allowed. They may be found at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL Someone (possibly you) has requested that your email address be added to or deleted from the mailing list "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG". If you really want this action to be taken, please send the following commands (exactly as shown) back to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG": auth e659031c subscribe freebsd-newbies freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org If you do not want this action to be taken, simply ignore this message and the request will be disregarded. If your mailer will not allow you to send the entire command as a single line, you may split it using backslashes, like so: auth e659031c subscribe freebsd-newbies \ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org If you have any questions about the policy of the list owner, please contact "freebsd-newbies-approval@FreeBSD.ORG". Thanks! Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 5:57:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA637B9A6 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:57:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944B4155E0; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA23407; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:00:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...just desserts! In-Reply-To: <393575D8.E311AF48@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 31 May 2000, David Johnson wrote: > Thomas Good wrote: > > > I download src and do the build with gmake, then put the binaries where > > I want em. It's the same on any box. So they all look pretty much > > the same. You can do this on almost any unix implementation. > > Some people don't have the time to do this. I have a mere 400Mhz AMD, > and compiling everything I have on my box would take a dozen hours or > more. My general rule of thumb is to install binaries if they are > available with the OS. If I need to go and specifically download > something, then I'll compile it. Hi David, I disappear into the basement...with a thermos of coffee, some UFO and BOC tapes (yeah, I'm a baby boomer - pardon the pun) and away I go...it's extra hassle but so is FBSD. As a buddy put it during his first install: 'It ain't plug and play.' He he. I have a few boxes here and there, at best a 233, usually a 166... it does take time to build stuff. But I like UFO. ;-) To wrap up, I think we agree more than we disagree. Yes? We will have to find something else to debate, it's been fun. Do you live near NYC? You're welcome to stop by...I'll keep the coffee warm. Conclusion: We need to get RMS to write a GNU sysadminsh to replace the Redhat/SuSe IF. I hear he can't type anymore so he 'talks' code to his colleagues. Anyway, this would be a good thing - but probably impossible unless the various vendors agreed to comply with base stds. Or the uname command returned something like 'RedHat' instead of 'Linux'. I'm sure Barnes and Young already working on this...maybe in GUI mode their 'x_uname' cmd could return a picture of Alan Cox? Second conclusion: We need to lobby ORA to put out a fleet of FBSD books. I am thinking of writing an open letter to Tim O. Wanna collaborate? Who knows, we may write the sequel to Eric Raymond's magnum opus. Seriously, I would like to pressure ORA a bit. They have tremendous resources and are allegedly Open Source advocates. Maybe they have forgotten that the BSD licence is more wide open than the GPL? Meanwhile, I note with disgust that they now offer books on Virus Builder and 'Learning Redhat Unix' which reminds me of the quick reference guide that came with my Toyota ('to use the cigarette lighter...') as it covers the conf interfaces at the expense of the sh prompt. If you want to pitch in (I am going to write *something* to ORA) just say the word. Maybe we could trick Gabriel into helping, eh? ;-) Cheers, Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------- SVCMC - Center for Behavioral Health -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Good tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org IS Coordinator / DBA Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: PostgreSQL s l a c k w a r e FreeBSD: RDBMS |---------- linux The Power To Serve -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 8:44:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from coimbra.oss.uswest.net (coimbra.oss.uswest.net [209.180.20.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6740E37BE70 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nitebirdz@coimbra.oss.uswest.net) Received: from localhost (nitebirdz@localhost) by coimbra.oss.uswest.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13501; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:43:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:43:40 -0500 (CDT) From: To: Doug Young Cc: theoea@pacbell.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <035f01bfca4a$236ed540$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 31 May 2000, Doug Young wrote: > Who needs X on a gateway box ?? > > As far as I remember, he said this would be an "Internet appliance" which is not the same as a gateway... unless he did not express himself correctly. An "Internet appliance" is a box that provides you access to the Internet so you can browse, send and receive email, and nothing else. In other words, it doesn't include any other application such as a word processor, graphics editors, etc. If all he needs is to set up a router, proxy, gateway, etc. then even a 386 would do. Hed may even consider picoBSD then (I believe that is the name of the FreeBSD for embedded devices). -- Nitebirdz http://www.linuxnovice.org Tips, articles, news, links... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 11: 7: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5EA37B673 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:07:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA4367; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:08:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3936A5C3.CE04958A@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 11:04:51 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...just desserts! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > Do you live near NYC? You're welcome to stop by...I'll keep the > coffee warm. I'm afraid not, I live on the left coast. > Anyway, this would be a good thing - but probably > impossible unless the various vendors agreed to comply with base stds. This is already the goal of the Linux Standard Base. > Second conclusion: We need to lobby ORA to put out a fleet of FBSD books. > I am thinking of writing an open letter to Tim O. Wanna collaborate? I've got a lot of stuff on my plate already. Writing a letter is no problem, writing a book would be a lot of work. But I'm still thinking on it. Didn't there used to be an ORA BSD book years ago? I recall it was a generic Unix book, but geared towards 4.4BSD instead of their generic Unix books today that that are geared towards SysV and Solaris. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 11:34:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0E837B562 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A7A155A1; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01731; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:38:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:38:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...just desserts! In-Reply-To: <3936A5C3.CE04958A@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, David Johnson wrote: > > Second conclusion: We need to lobby ORA to put out a fleet of FBSD books. > > I am thinking of writing an open letter to Tim O. Wanna collaborate? > > I've got a lot of stuff on my plate already. Writing a letter is no > problem, writing a book would be a lot of work. But I'm still thinking > on it. I don't know about writing a book myself - I was thinking of a polemic of sorts...in the form of an open letter. > Didn't there used to be an ORA BSD book years ago? I recall it was a > generic Unix book, but geared towards 4.4BSD instead of their generic > Unix books today that that are geared towards SysV and Solaris. Yep. 4.4BSD Programmers Ref. is the one I have but there were several. Now out of print. I grabbed the ones I could find - at a place called Computer Book Works on Warren St in lower Manhattan. They also had McKusick's book which I grabbed. Here's the number: Computer Book Works 25 Warren St. NYC Phone: 212-385-1616 Fax: 212-385-8193 E-Mail: bookman@cnct.com I just called, they have one copy of 4.4BSD Programmers Reference left... Cheers, Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------- SVCMC - Center for Behavioral Health -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Good tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org IS Coordinator / DBA Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: PostgreSQL s l a c k w a r e FreeBSD: RDBMS |---------- linux The Power To Serve -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:14:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from beachpdc1.beachassociates.com (beachpdc1.beachassociates.com [208.246.80.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A0F37B8D5 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cday@beachassociates.com) Received: by beachpdc1.beachassociates.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:14:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: Chad Day To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: System intrusion Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:14:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It appears that one of the users on my system either had a password stolen, or gave it out. This was an account shared by several users to allow uploading of files to a particular directory. Some malicious user got a hold of this, either from another user, or cracked it. He then accessed my box and proceeded to delete files from the directory, along with creating a directory saying something like "TMaN hacked this". All I have logwise that I can see is his connection in the wtmp file, and when the directory was created which matches that time. I don't know where to look for any more details. ftpd was started up with the -l flag, but there's no syslog file or ftp.log file. I have his IP address he's accessing from (he's coming from aol) and the times of access.. he's been logging back in over the past couple days, I've changed the account password to shut him out, no other successful connections. The group that user was in only had rights to that directory, so I'm not too concerned about anything else being compromised, but I am keeping an eye out for it. My question is: what can I do? Should I contact the FBI? (if so, if anyone knows how to go about this best who has had prior experience, I would appreciate information) Contact AOL (which seems to be a waste of time)? I highly suspect that is the right IP address too - we run an IRC channel related to the webpage, and he has repeatedly evaded bans with that AOL account.. he's not really smart enough to know how to go about cloaking himself. Chad Day Beach Associates When I speak german... I think german in my head... but like...Do skript kiddies see a w40l3 8uncha 1's and 0's and 3's and 4's and 7's in their h34d'5 w43n t43y R +a1k1n6 ? -- SirStanley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:26: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EEA537B678 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA70B4; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3936B849.C843B48C@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:23:53 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...just desserts! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > I don't know about writing a book myself - I was thinking of a > polemic of sorts...in the form of an open letter. We don't want to get too polemic on them, they are nice people. A complained there once about never-you-mind, and Good 'Ol Tim himself wrote back an apology. Why don't we make this a mailing-list project? Someone can take the initiative, send in the draft, we can all review it, post suggestions and corrections, then send it off to ORA signed FreeBSD Newbies. How about it people? > I just called, they have one copy of 4.4BSD Programmers Reference left... It is now mine! Shipping today. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:47:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC7437B814 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA710; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:48:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3936BD46.728AD646@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:45:10 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chad Day Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chad Day wrote: > My question is: what can I do? Should I contact the FBI? (if so, if > anyone knows how to go about this best who has had prior experience, I would > appreciate information) Contact AOL (which seems to be a waste of time)? From what I understand, the FBI will confiscate the host machine as evidence. Very stupid, sort of like evicting you from your home after a break in. You next best bet is to contact AOL and present them with evidence that their user committed malfeasance. If that doesn't work, then you have two options in my radical and rebellious opinion. If AOL does nothing, then block all AOL from your site, redirecting any requests to a page explaining why they're blocked and who the SOB responsible is. The second option, considering that when law enforcement breaks down, the law-abiding go vigilante, is to send a better hacker after this guy. Or mail bomb him. Be creative. All sorts of really sweet vengeance comes to mind that I dare not post in a public forum... David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:50:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AAE37B814 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:50:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id PAA25504; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:50:22 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts006d03.mer-id.concentric.net (ts006d03.mer-id.concentric.net [208.177.68.15]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id PAA03945; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:47:53 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke To: Chad Day Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > My question is: what can I do? Should I contact the FBI? (if so, if > anyone knows how to go about this best who has had prior experience, I would > appreciate information) Contact AOL (which seems to be a waste of time)? The man who introducced to Unix had a similar problem on his FAA contract project: His log files proved conclusively that two individuals were attempting to shut down his systems (airport monitoring boxes, no less) and the FBI would do precisely nothing. They didn't tell him, but I found out for him later, quite by accident, that computer log files are not admissable evidence in court (do _not_ take that as legal advice, it's strictly third hand information, though I have reason to trust the source). And, yes, I'd lay heavy odds that contacting aol would be a _total_ waste of time. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:51:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from Astrovan.cstone.net (mailstop.cstone.net [205.197.102.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0912B37BE75 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from highway@cstone.net) Received: from cstone.net (aylee.mrgoodbucks.com [209.145.93.143]) by Astrovan.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59789U13500L1350S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:45:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3936BF19.7A143751@cstone.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:52:57 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: Chad Day , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion References: <3936BD46.728AD646@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Johnson wrote: > >From what I understand, the FBI will confiscate the host machine as > evidence. Very stupid, sort of like evicting you from your home after a > break in. You next best bet is to contact AOL and present them with > evidence that their user committed malfeasance. They didn't do that to us when my ISP got hacked. However, they're very over-worked, and they are very short on good technical people. Unless you had a big loss, they'll forget to do anything... > If that doesn't work, then you have two options in my radical and > rebellious opinion. If AOL does nothing, then block all AOL from your > site, redirecting any requests to a page explaining why they're blocked > and who the SOB responsible is. The second option, considering that when AOL will do something if you talk to them correctly. Just keep fighting through the bureaucracy. Unless you're rather large, AOL probably won't even notice or care if you block them. > law enforcement breaks down, the law-abiding go vigilante, is to send a > better hacker after this guy. Or mail bomb him. Be creative. All sorts > of really sweet vengeance comes to mind that I dare not post in a public > forum... I'd have to recommend that as a very bad thing to do. Don't drop to the l33t hacker level. You're just asking for more retribution, and if you do need to report it, your credibility is shot, especially if the kid reports it to AOL (or they notice it in their logs). SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - All Around Geek "It must be difficult being such a visionary." "Not really. You just have to drink a lot." http://www.goats.com/archive/index.html?990420 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:53:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from Astrovan.cstone.net (mailstop.cstone.net [205.197.102.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E722137BE03 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from highway@cstone.net) Received: from cstone.net (aylee.mrgoodbucks.com [209.145.93.143]) by Astrovan.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59789U13500L1350S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:46:55 -0400 Message-ID: <3936BF80.77E2301B@cstone.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:54:40 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ML Duke Cc: Chad Day , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ML Duke wrote: > They didn't tell him, but I found out for him later, quite by > accident, that computer log files are not admissable evidence in > court (do _not_ take that as legal advice, it's strictly third > hand information, though I have reason to trust the source). According to our contacts when we got hacked, they're only admissible if you can prove they weren't tampered. So, basically, unless you're writing logs to CD-R, you're S.O.L. SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - All Around Geek "It must be difficult being such a visionary." "Not really. You just have to drink a lot." http://www.goats.com/archive/index.html?990420 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 12:56:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from beachpdc1.beachassociates.com (beachpdc1.beachassociates.com [208.246.80.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B2837BEA3 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cday@beachassociates.com) Received: by beachpdc1.beachassociates.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:56:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Chad Day To: 'David Johnson' Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: System intrusion Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:56:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, well, either way, I want to get more detailed log info on this guy.. I need to get detailed ftp logging. He keeps accessing the system on a daily basis, so it will be easy for me to mount up evidence. I installed wu-ftpd, backed up what has already been modified and moved it elsewhere, I'm having problems turning logging on though. In my inetd.conf: ftp stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l -l In my syslog.conf: !ftpd *.* /var/log/ftplog ftp.info /var/log/ftplog not logging though, even though I've kill -1'ed syslog and the inetd processes. Am I missing something? Thanks, Chad -----Original Message----- From: David Johnson [mailto:djohnson@acuson.com] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:45 PM To: Chad Day Cc: 'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org' Subject: Re: System intrusion Chad Day wrote: > My question is: what can I do? Should I contact the FBI? (if so, if > anyone knows how to go about this best who has had prior experience, I would > appreciate information) Contact AOL (which seems to be a waste of time)? From what I understand, the FBI will confiscate the host machine as evidence. Very stupid, sort of like evicting you from your home after a break in. You next best bet is to contact AOL and present them with evidence that their user committed malfeasance. If that doesn't work, then you have two options in my radical and rebellious opinion. If AOL does nothing, then block all AOL from your site, redirecting any requests to a page explaining why they're blocked and who the SOB responsible is. The second option, considering that when law enforcement breaks down, the law-abiding go vigilante, is to send a better hacker after this guy. Or mail bomb him. Be creative. All sorts of really sweet vengeance comes to mind that I dare not post in a public forum... David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 13: 6: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from martinez.malf.net (w130.z209220133.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [209.220.133.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6E037B945 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dking@malf.net) Received: from malf.net (w131.z209220133.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [209.220.133.131]) by martinez.malf.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA36724; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dking@malf.net) Message-ID: <3936C217.C615F2CD@malf.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 13:05:26 -0700 From: Doug King Reply-To: dking@malf.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chad Day , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Chad, It's not real clear about just who has jurisdiction... certainly, the FBI does, since this guy probably used a "means of interstate commerce" to hack you... even if he actually came from "next door". The problem is that if it's a "common hack" with less than $50,000 damage, they're not going to be interested. (Exception... if there is evidence that you were hacked to stifle speech (in other words, an act of "Cyber-terrorism"), they'll be less interested in the amount of damage, and more interested in the *kind* of speech that was being attacked (the more "politically correct", the better.) Your local police *also* have jurisdiction, as well as the police where the hacker lives. In this case, your locals might be interested, but they are likely not terribly technologically sophisticated... so they'll likely want to see "physical evidence"(like fingerprints, dna samples, and pry-bar marks on the covers of your computer), since that is what they DO understand. The locals where the hacker lives will only be interested if they can catch the hacker while he is in the process of hacking you BTW... my credentials for commenting... I'm the "tech admin" that is referenced in this Salon article: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/05/26/guns_veggies/index.html The hacker in that case used a qpopper exploit to gain root access... which we detected almost instantly... Then, (s)he changed the root password and started destroying stuff. We tried to intervene ...but unfortunately, the machine was collocated, and we couldn't get the co-lo facilities manager to pull the plug on the box before the hacker executed a "rm -rf /*"... almost an hour after we asked that the machine be unplugged. sigh... To the best of my knowledge, the FBI is still pursuing that case, albeit not very vigorously... Last I heard, they had served a search warrant on the gun site and found lot's of vailed threats against the Nelsons, but nothing (directly) linking the site to the Vegsource hack. Hope this (not very encouraging) story helps... Doug King Chad Day wrote: > > It appears that one of the users on my system either had a password stolen, > or gave it out. This was an account shared by several users to allow > uploading of files to a particular directory. > > Some malicious user got a hold of this, either from another user, or cracked > it. He then accessed my box and proceeded to delete files from the > directory, along with creating a directory saying something like "TMaN > hacked this". > > All I have logwise that I can see is his connection in the wtmp file, and > when the directory was created which matches that time. I don't know where > to look for any more details. ftpd was started up with the -l flag, but > there's no syslog file or ftp.log file. > > I have his IP address he's accessing from (he's coming from aol) and the > times of access.. he's been logging back in over the past couple days, I've > changed the account password to shut him out, no other successful > connections. The group that user was in only had rights to that directory, > so I'm not too concerned about anything else being compromised, but I am > keeping an eye out for it. > > My question is: what can I do? Should I contact the FBI? (if so, if > anyone knows how to go about this best who has had prior experience, I would > appreciate information) Contact AOL (which seems to be a waste of time)? > > I highly suspect that is the right IP address too - we run an IRC channel > related to the webpage, and he has repeatedly evaded bans with that AOL > account.. he's not really smart enough to know how to go about cloaking > himself. > > Chad Day > Beach Associates > > When I speak german... I think german in my head... but like...Do skript > kiddies see a w40l3 8uncha 1's and 0's and 3's and 4's and 7's in their > h34d'5 w43n t43y R +a1k1n6 ? -- SirStanley > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 14: 5: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA73137B5AD for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:04:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00699; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:03:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdNmt697; Fri Jun 2 07:03:22 2000 Message-ID: <012d01bfcc0c$ee3a1140$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: Cc: , References: Subject: Re: Re using a 486 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:03:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That picoBSD would be very nice if it was further developed. I've been following the thing for some time, but unfortunately it doesn't appear to be anything like usable yet. (well not for anyone but an expert anyway). However other than the space taken up by a regular computer box, the use of a "smallest installation possible" FreeBSD" as a gateway is totally practical & relatively simple for newbies ... its only when one gets into issues like setting up the full DNS stuff that it becomes extremely involved. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Doug Young" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 1:43 AM Subject: Re: Re using a 486 > On Wed, 31 May 2000, Doug Young wrote: > > > Who needs X on a gateway box ?? > > > > > > As far as I remember, he said this would be an "Internet appliance" which > is not the same as a gateway... unless he did not express himself > correctly. An "Internet appliance" is a box that provides you access to > the Internet so you can browse, send and receive email, and nothing > else. In other words, it doesn't include any other application such as a > word processor, graphics editors, etc. > > If all he needs is to set up a router, proxy, gateway, etc. then even a > 386 would do. Hed may even consider picoBSD then (I believe that is the > name of the FreeBSD for embedded devices). > > > -- > Nitebirdz > http://www.linuxnovice.org > Tips, articles, news, links... > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 1 15: 7:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD1737B743 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:07:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA598F; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:08:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3936DE1E.A6D1D4FE@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:05:18 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John B P Melesky Cc: Thomas Good , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...just desserts! References: <3936B849.C843B48C@acuson.com> <3936D255.78097884@smallflower.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John B P Melesky wrote: > also, i think Tim's warning in the last paragraph ("information hole" > vs. "not enough attention") should be heeded, even for a > letter/petition. figure out the exact topic of the book, and make sure > it's not redundant in some way to another book, then go for it. IMHO, there is a big gaping hole. And I'm not sure he's being totally forthright when he says he doesn't want redundancy. Scanning through the list of available Unix books, I see "SCO Unix in a Nutshell", "Unix in a Nutshell System V Edition", "Linux in a Nutshell" and "Running Linux". Even Linux has been split into distributions. I find "Learning Debian GNU/Linux" and "Learning Redhat Linux" (how redundant are these, I ask?). In fact, the only generalized Unix books I see is "Learning the Unix Operating System" and "Unix Power Tools". The hole is there. There is a dearth of non-SysV, non-Linux and non-GNU information. It would be nice to have a "Learning FreeBSD", but it appears that we will have to wait until "Learning SuSE Linux" and "Learning Corel Linux" are published first. But a "Running FreeBSD" could fill the hole without being redundant. If you look at "Running Linux", it is focuses heavily on Linux and not on generic Unix. I would suggest focusing on installation, adminstration, the differences between BSD and other Unices, and a selection of applications. Topics could include the BSD partitioning scheme and file system, sysinstall, BSD specific utilites, ports, porting, etc. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 1:44:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ra.obsidian.co.za (lava.obsidian.co.za [160.124.182.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FA937B567 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from werner@ra.obsidian.co.za) Received: from localhost (werner@localhost) by ra.obsidian.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03044 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:44:38 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:44:38 +0200 (SAST) From: Werner Gillmer To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 2:22: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f131.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BDED337BF93 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from midios3@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 77877 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jun 2000 09:21:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20000602092158.77876.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 195.66.101.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:21:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [195.66.101.83] From: "Dimitrios T." To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Cc: rohit@ieee.org Subject: Re: digest mode Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:21:58 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, well, I understand that there's no digest mode in this mailing list.. Pity, my preference goes for a digest-mode too :( Dimitri > Hey, > > How do i set majordomo to send me freebsd-newbies in digest mode? > >-rohit > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 5:10:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.mia.bellsouth.net (mail2.mia.bellsouth.net [205.152.144.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9737BB59 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pineypl@bellsouth.net) Received: from bellsouth.net (adsl-61-16-127.mia.bellsouth.net [208.61.16.127]) by mail2.mia.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with ESMTP id IAA22669 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3937A420.13BB2AC9@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:10:08 -0400 From: Bob Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd newbies Subject: Hacker vs Cracker was References: <3936C217.C615F2CD@malf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > that if it's a "common hack" with less than $50,000 damage, they're not What is the difference between a hacker and a cracker? I see the terms used so loosely, does anyone really know? Bob Collins To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 5:33: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (hydrant.intranova.net [209.201.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E938537BE80 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hydrant.intranova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526D4E0E92; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Bob Collins Cc: freebsd newbies Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was In-Reply-To: <3937A420.13BB2AC9@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Bob Collins wrote: > What is the difference between a hacker and a cracker? > I see the terms used so loosely, does anyone really know? Usually a hacker is someone who goes around on a 'knowledge quest', not to use the information for illicit purposes, but for the sake of satisfying their curiocity, I think it would be safe to assume that 99% of 'hackers' aren't out to cause property/intellectual damage. A cracker on the other hand, is a skilled (or with the recent addition of compile-and-go programs: hardly skilled) person who uses their knowledge and resources for illicit purposes, such as denial-of-service attacks, web page defacements, and in this case "rm -rf /*". Nowadays, it doesn't take much to be a cracker, which is one of the problems that computer incidents are rising, all you need to know how to do is compile a program and run it, hardly any coding involved. Unfortunately, these programs are so available that 'mafiaboy' occurences aren't as rare as people think, add a pinch of IRC to reality, and you'll see that these illicit activities occur everyday, from host compromises to denial-of-service attacks to distributed denial-of-service attack networks (like this year's attacks against Ebay, Yahoo, CNN, Excite, and CNet). -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://www.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: 8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 5:34:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from rizla.energy.it (rizla.energy.it [212.51.128.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5173637BEB2 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from demanzano@playstos.com) Received: from sunshine (s38.mi.energy.it [212.51.129.101]) by rizla.energy.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA30207 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:45:07 +0200 Message-Id: <200006021145.NAA30207@rizla.energy.it> From: "Alessandro de Manzano" To: "freebsd newbies" Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:36:14 +0200 Reply-To: "Alessandro de Manzano" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 2000 (5.0.2195) In-Reply-To: <3937A420.13BB2AC9@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:10:08 -0400, Bob Collins wrote: >> that if it's a "common hack" with less than $50,000 damage, they're not > >What is the difference between a hacker and a cracker? AFAIK should be: hacker : someone "geeky" that do it to learn and experiment but without damaging. cracker: the same but with the plain intention to damage, destroy, etc. bye! Ale To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 6:22:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from trill.hh.se (trill.hh.se [194.47.5.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF5137BBFF for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:22:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from u98jobj@stud.hh.se) Received: from gs177 (gs177.gsten.hh.se [194.47.16.177]) by trill.hh.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17227 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:22:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Joel_Bj=F6rk?= To: Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:22:44 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hacker : someone "geeky" that do it to learn and experiment but without damaging. cracker: the same but with the plain intention to damage, destroy, etc. A cracker is also a person that is producing "warez" ie illegal versions of software. The term hack can also be used to describe a "temporary fix" to a program or a small program/script that does the job but not necesseraly in a good way. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 6:35:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F5C37BF1E for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh0.bfm.org [216.127.220.193]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:36:08 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000602083449.00914210@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:34:49 -0500 To: Bob Collins , freebsd newbies From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was In-Reply-To: <3937A420.13BB2AC9@bellsouth.net> References: <3936C217.C615F2CD@malf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:10 02-06-2000 -0400, Bob Collins wrote: >> that if it's a "common hack" with less than $50,000 damage, they're not > >What is the difference between a hacker and a cracker? >I see the terms used so loosely, does anyone really know? Oh, yes, *we* know. It's the uninitiated who have misused the term hacker to mean cracker that are the cause of any confusion. A hacker is someone with deeper knowledge of what computer do and how they work. A hacker can do things even the manufacturer says are not possible. A hacker has a great respect for computers, and for computer users. A hacker never abuses his knowledge to hurt anyone. Quite the contrary: If a hacker happens on a security hole in your system, he will most likely let you know, even suggest how to fix it (which is why hackers are so adamant about not using Windows if you can avoid it). A cracker is someone who breaks into other people's systems, generally with the intent to harm or otherwise exploit (e.g., steal information, destroy data). Hence, by definition, a cracker is not a hacker, nor is a hacker a cracker. Cheers, Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 6:56:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from beachpdc1.beachassociates.com (beachpdc1.beachassociates.com [208.246.80.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CC137BA01 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:56:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cday@beachassociates.com) Received: by beachpdc1.beachassociates.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:56:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Chad Day To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: System intrusion followup. Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:56:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, just got off the phone with the FBI, and the local police department came by and took a report last evening. The FBI seemed pretty knowledgeable and really willing to go after the guy, even though our estimated loss was only $2-3k, and they say they usually require $10k.. but since the logs are pretty open and shut and it should be an easy matter to persue, he said they are very likely to go ahead after the guy. One thing I did learn: make sure you have a banner on your FTP login and telnet login saying something like: "UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS PROHIBITED". I didn't have that. :( Rookie mistake, lesson learned. The officer from the local police wasn't too technologically there, but I was able to talk her through a lot of it and wrote down my version of what happened, and she seemed to get the gist of everything after a while. AOL, of course, did jack and you know what. After being disconnected after long hold periods, they kindly told me that they won't take any actions regardless of evidence unless the police/FBI contacted them. Me: "I have his IP address, he's coming from AOL, but they wouldn't give me any more information." FBI: "They'll give it to US." Ahh, go FBI. :) Anyway.. things I've learned that may be of value to other newbies.. Make sure you have ftp/telnet banners with usage policies You can trust your users about as far as you can throw them Keep very detailed ftp logs.. ftpd -l -l and AOL sucks, but you knew that already. Thanks to everyone who has emailed me with advice. Chad Day Beach Associates When I speak german... I think german in my head... but like...Do skript kiddies see a w40l3 8uncha 1's and 0's and 3's and 4's and 7's in their h34d'5 w43n t43y R +a1k1n6 ? -- SirStanley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7: 3:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417EF37B5D0 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:03:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomg@mailhost.nrnet.org) Received: from mailhost.nrnet.org (mailhost.nrnet.org [166.84.192.39]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD82E15764; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tomg@localhost) by mailhost.nrnet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03860; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:06:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:06:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Good To: David Johnson Cc: John B P Melesky , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...plagiarizing D. Johnson! In-Reply-To: <3936DE1E.A6D1D4FE@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, David Johnson wrote an excellent arg for some long overdue docs: Bravo David. Suppose we edit a bit...I submit that our opus need not be overly verbose. In fact we could cut to the chase by grabbing your arguments and gussying them up a bit. >>> Open Letter to Tim O'Reilly From the FreeBSD Newbies When a FreeBSD novice scans the impressive list of available O'Reilly titles on the subject of Unix, s/he finds a sprinkling of (arguably) generic offerings: "Learning the Unix Operating System", "Unix In A Nutshell" and "Unix Power Tools". In addition, specific implementations are also well represented as the following titles would indicate: "SCO Unix in a Nutshell", "Unix in a Nutshell System V Edition", "Linux in a Nutshell" and "Running Linux" - amongst many others. Linux appears particularly well represented with various titles focusing on specific distributions. "Learning Debian --- GNU/Linux" and "Learning Redhat Linux" illustrate this point. These titles are great for novices not quite ready for "Running Linux" or "Learning the BASH Shell". And yet, there appears to be one unix implementation without *a single volume* devoted to it: FreeBSD. In fact, the only O'Reilly titles devoted to any BSD derived system are now out of print. We are given to understand that ORA has some concerns about publishing redundant books (although Linux appears to be exempted from this concern.) It is felt that a "Running FreeBSD" could fill the hole without being redundant. If we examine "Running Linux", it is focuses heavily on Linux and not on generic Unix. Perhaps focusing on installation, adminstration, the differences between BSD and other Unices, and a selection of applications would make for an FBSD title with broad appeal. Topics could include the BSD partitioning scheme and file system, sysinstall, BSD specific utilites, ports, porting, etc. Attention could be paid to BSD networking as it has played such a prominent role in the overall development of Unix networking. In conclusion, we, the FreeBSD Newbies, urge O'Reilly and Associates to take up the issue of supporting a major force in the Open Source movement. Even should a FreeBSD volume not be a big seller - and this seems unlikely given the absence of BSD related titles on the bookshelves of shopping malls - it seems appropriate for ORA to support this important project. It would be unfortunate for a SAMS title (e.g., 'Teach Yourself FreeBSD in 21 Days') to precede a more authoritative O'Reilly effort. -------------------------------------------------------------------- SVCMC - Center for Behavioral Health -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Good tomg@ { admin | q8 } .nrnet.org IS Coordinator / DBA Phone: 718-354-5528 Fax: 718-354-5056 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: PostgreSQL s l a c k w a r e FreeBSD: RDBMS |---------- linux The Power To Serve -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7: 8:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from rustikat.com (ftp.rustikat.com [209.132.15.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2BBC37B5D7 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from admin@rustikat.com) Received: from rustikat (ppp00.eastlink.net [207.42.55.76]) by rustikat.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA27583 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:08:19 -0400 Message-Id: <200006021408.KAA27583@rustikat.com> X-Sender: fred@mail.rustikat.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:01:43 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: webmaster Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org auth 6cf59756 unsubscribe freebsd-newbies admin@rustikat.com ----------------Rustikat Internet Services--------------- Web Design: http://www.rustikat.com/web_design.html Web Hosting: http://www.rustikat.net Email: mailto:admin@rustikat.net Subscribe to our FREE newsletter send blank email to: mailto:rustikatspecials-subscribe@listbot.com --------------------- www.rustikat.net --------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7: 9:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gw.Adl.USSR.net (digita1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3102F37B91B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:09:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wabit@adl.ussr.net) Received: from localhost (wabit@localhost) by gw.Adl.USSR.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e52E9Uf23033; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:39:30 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:39:29 +0930 (CST) From: james To: Chad Day Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion followup. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Chad, Thanks for the message, and the warning about "Unauthorized access prohibited" messages.... /etc/ftpwelcome contains the ftp motd, where is the file that is displayed before the login prompt? - or are we limited to displaying something after they've connected, via /etc/motd ? regards james On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Chad Day wrote: > Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:56:31 -0400 > From: Chad Day > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > Subject: System intrusion followup. > > Well, just got off the phone with the FBI, and the local police department > came by and took a report last evening. > > The FBI seemed pretty knowledgeable and really willing to go after the guy, > even though our estimated loss was only $2-3k, and they say they usually > require $10k.. but since the logs are pretty open and shut and it should be > an easy matter to persue, he said they are very likely to go ahead after the > guy. > > One thing I did learn: make sure you have a banner on your FTP login and > telnet login saying something like: "UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS PROHIBITED". I > didn't have that. :( Rookie mistake, lesson learned. > > The officer from the local police wasn't too technologically there, but I > was able to talk her through a lot of it and wrote down my version of what > happened, and she seemed to get the gist of everything after a while. > > AOL, of course, did jack and you know what. After being disconnected after > long hold periods, they kindly told me that they won't take any actions > regardless of evidence unless the police/FBI contacted them. > > > > Me: "I have his IP address, he's coming from AOL, but they wouldn't give me > any more information." > FBI: "They'll give it to US." > > Ahh, go FBI. :) > > Anyway.. things I've learned that may be of value to other newbies.. > > Make sure you have ftp/telnet banners with usage policies > You can trust your users about as far as you can throw them > Keep very detailed ftp logs.. ftpd -l -l > and AOL sucks, but you knew that already. > > Thanks to everyone who has emailed me with advice. > > Chad Day > Beach Associates > > When I speak german... I think german in my head... but like...Do skript > kiddies see a w40l3 8uncha 1's and 0's and 3's and 4's and 7's in their > h34d'5 w43n t43y R +a1k1n6 ? -- SirStanley > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7:21: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA3137B6B7 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p236.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.236]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA473216; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:19:32 +0200 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA00343; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:41:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:41:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Joel_Bj=F6rk?= Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Divide et impera... On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Joel Bj=F6rk wrote: >=20 >=20 > hacker : someone "geeky" that do it to learn and experiment but=20 > without damaging. > cracker: the same but with the plain intention to damage, destroy, etc. >=20 > A cracker is also a person that is producing "warez" ie illegal=20 > versions of software. The term hack can also be used to describe=20 > a "temporary fix" to a program or a small program/script that=20 > does the job but not necesseraly in a good way. >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7:21: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90637B5B3 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p236.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.236]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA101926; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:19:34 +0200 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA00350; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:48:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:48:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: Doug Young Cc: nitebirdz@coimbra.oss.uswest.net, theoea@pacbell.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re using a 486 In-Reply-To: <012d01bfcc0c$ee3a1140$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > That picoBSD would be very nice if it was further developed. I've been > following the thing for some time, but unfortunately it doesn't appear to > be anything like usable yet. (well not for anyone but an expert anyway). It was what convinced me at once that FBSD is what I need, after playing with a lot of other "one floppy unixes", that mostly didnt work most of the time. And please, Doug, no shit on the "experts". The ppp installation script of pico sucked badly, no PAP in India ? ;-), but if you know a very little bit of /etc/ppp/ppp.conf (which isnt "expert" nut user-knowledge), it would be usable for browsing with lynx and telnetting. H. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 7:22:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (hydrant.intranova.net [209.201.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D8337B651 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hydrant.intranova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA183E1263 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Omachonu Ogali To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 10:39:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C3837B513 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA53BA; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:40:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3937F0CE.3B270EBB@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:37:18 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chad Day Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion followup. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chad Day wrote: > Ahh, go FBI. :) I'm glad they're doing something! My earlier comments about them were uniformed and hearsay. I apologize. I guess this recent talk about cracking down on computer crime is more than just talk. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 10:49:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.aracnet.com (mail2.aracnet.com [216.99.193.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8699837BA9A for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@aracnet.com) Received: from shell1.aracnet.com (shell1.aracnet.com [216.99.193.21]) by mail2.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10705; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:51:49 -0700 Received: by shell1.aracnet.com (8.9.3) id KAA07010; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:50:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:50:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: Bob Collins Cc: freebsd newbies Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker was In-Reply-To: <3937A420.13BB2AC9@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > that if it's a "common hack" with less than $50,000 damage, they're not > > What is the difference between a hacker and a cracker? > I see the terms used so loosely, does anyone really know? k Historically hackers were those who of course hacked into a system or wherever. The Term Cracker was used to decribe those hackers who did it to hurt some one or for personal gain. Hackers pretty much did it to prove or see if they could. It's fine line but in their minds it's a big differance between moralities Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 10:55:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2759B37BAE1 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA5E00; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:56:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3937F48D.36B326F3@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:53:17 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Good Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some food for thought...plagiarizing D. Johnson! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Good wrote: > Suppose we edit a bit...I submit that our opus need > not be overly verbose. In fact we could cut to the chase by grabbing > your arguments and gussying them up a bit. >>> Overall, this looks very good. I'll scan through it in closer detail later today when I have time and see if there's any place to tweak it. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 13:34: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from canary.nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (canary.nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.97.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2876F37B73E for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimizu@nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: (from shimizu@localhost) by canary.nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) id FAA70893 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 05:33:35 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 05:33:35 +0900 (JST) From: Atsushi SHIMIZU Message-Id: <200006022033.FAA70893@canary.nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org auth 5292a9f9 unsubscribe freebsd-newbies shimizu@nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 16:42: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE24B37B65B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leegold@erols.com) Received: from 209-122-225-121.s121.tnt1.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.225.121] helo=leegold1) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12y14f-0003rd-00 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:41:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: Subject: domain names Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:42:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org this is a newbie questions of vast proportions: i managed to get FBSD installed. Let me start off by asking about the network setup via the sysinstall program. FSBD recognized my nic card, For "host name" i put in ham_on_rye. but i was at a loss to know what to put in for "domain name". BUT WHAT IT IS IS TWO PC'S HOOKED TOGETHER VIA ETHERNET - NOTHING ELSE. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN RE; A FULLY QUALIFIED DOMAIN NAME? [ sorry for yelling. ] there's more to this but let's defer additional complications right now. BTW, i did enter some ip addresses into the two boxes and i can ping and telnet between them just fine. Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 17: 4:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gargoyle.apana.org.au (brisba6.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A8737BA3F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:04:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gargoyle.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17358; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:04:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by gargoyle.apana.org.au, id smtpdt17353; Sat Jun 3 10:04:27 2000 Message-ID: <032301bfccef$6555e000$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" , References: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> Subject: Re: domain names Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 10:05:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > this is a newbie questions of vast proportions: i managed to get FBSD > installed. Well thats a significant leap forward :) > > Let me start off by asking about the network setup via the sysinstall > program. FSBD recognized my nic card, For "host name" i put in ham_on_rye. > but i was at a loss to know what to put in for "domain name". Obviously the person who wrote that assumed that anyone installing via network would have a domain name of some sort, however without having done an install that way I guess it wouldn't matter as long as the two machines could see each other on the network. It sounds like its worked anyway so I'll try that myself someday. I would have thought the FQDN was only relevant with an FTP install ..... like from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org, although it is possible to have a domain without being online. > > BUT WHAT IT IS IS TWO PC'S HOOKED TOGETHER VIA ETHERNET - NOTHING ELSE. WHAT > DOES THAT MEAN RE; A FULLY QUALIFIED DOMAIN NAME? [ sorry for yelling. ] > > there's more to this but let's defer additional complications right now. > BTW, i did enter some ip addresses into the two boxes and i can ping and > telnet between them just fine. > > Thanks > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 17:10:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3681037B8F5 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.47]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3A34; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:11:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39384C5B.9DE16CB9@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:07:55 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leegold Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: domain names References: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org leegold wrote: > Let me start off by asking about the network setup via the sysinstall > program. FSBD recognized my nic card, For "host name" i put in ham_on_rye. > but i was at a loss to know what to put in for "domain name". If this is your own private little network, name it whatever you want. The common default is localdomain, though I always used just plain home. I have also seen my.domain and local.net. Just think of a name for your network just like you thought of one for the host, and use that. I'm thinking that "deli" would be quite nice. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 17:16:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A89E37C12D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA52581; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: David Johnson Cc: Chad Day , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: System intrusion followup. In-Reply-To: <3937F0CE.3B270EBB@acuson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, David Johnson wrote: > Chad Day wrote: > > > Ahh, go FBI. :) > > I'm glad they're doing something! My earlier comments about them were > uniformed and hearsay. I apologize. I guess this recent talk about > cracking down on computer crime is more than just talk. Four or five years ago your perception would have been accurate. In the last two to three years their interest and expertise in pursuing computer crime has expanded exponentially. Unfortunately, their budget doesn't always allow the manpower to follow every lead, but if you can provide solid, well-documented evidence, and substantiate a loss they will work with you. I am pleased to say that in my former life as an IRC network admin I was a contributing factor to two people going to prison for computer crimes. It is a very satisfying feeling, especially combined with helping a few of the people he cracked along the way buy a clue or two. :) Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 18:42:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198E637B9BF for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:42:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-225-206.s206.tnt1.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.225.206] helo=leegold1) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12y2xX-000630-00 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bfccfd$23262d80$cee17ad1@leegold1> From: "leegold" To: References: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> <032301bfccef$6555e000$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: post install questions Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 21:43:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 1. next ques. is again connectivity. the other box in my little ethernet is a winnt4.0 workstation box. what's the simplest way to get the FreeBSD server and the nt client - mapping drives, dragging and dropping files ect via ethernet. Is Samba the ticket? 2. when i installed ( sysinstall ), i said the box was not a leaf node, but actually it is - i have no gateways right now, i have just two pcs - local nodes. Is this leaf node setting any big deal? What exactly - what services are affected w/this setting. 3. the packages/ports, there are so many of them, is there any descriptive reference, that can give me info on what they are, maybe recommendations? 4. Durring the install i got an error message or two: Adding of package XFree86-aoutlibs-3.3.3 aborted , error code 1. Loading of dependent package XFree86 aoutlibs-3.3.3 failed Any thing i should loose beauty-sleep over? Thanks > > this is a newbie questions of vast proportions: i managed to get FBSD > > installed. > > Well thats a significant leap forward :) > > > > Let me start off by asking about the network setup via the sysinstall > > program. FSBD recognized my nic card, For "host name" i put in > ham_on_rye. > > but i was at a loss to know what to put in for "domain name". > > Obviously the person who wrote that assumed that anyone installing via > network would > have a domain name of some sort, however without having done an install that > way I > guess it wouldn't matter as long as the two machines could see each other on > the network. > It sounds like its worked anyway so I'll try that myself someday. I would > have thought the FQDN > was only relevant with an FTP install ..... like from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org, > although it is possible > to have a domain without being online. > > > > BUT WHAT IT IS IS TWO PC'S HOOKED TOGETHER VIA ETHERNET - NOTHING ELSE. > WHAT > > DOES THAT MEAN RE; A FULLY QUALIFIED DOMAIN NAME? [ sorry for yelling. ] > > > > there's more to this but let's defer additional complications right now. > > BTW, i did enter some ip addresses into the two boxes and i can ping and > > telnet between them just fine. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 18:52:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD44937B99F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.69.100]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA5205; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <393864ED.E7C59FEC@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:52:45 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leegold Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: post install questions References: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> <032301bfccef$6555e000$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <000401bfccfd$23262d80$cee17ad1@leegold1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org leegold wrote: > 3. the packages/ports, there are so many of them, is there any descriptive > reference, that can give me info on what they are, maybe recommendations? One big annoyance with sysinstall is that there is no way to get the full description of the package you want installed. This can be overcome by going into the appropriate ports directory and reading the description there, then firing up sysinstall and installing it (or typing make install while you're there). > 4. Durring the install i got an error message or two: > Adding of package XFree86-aoutlibs-3.3.3 aborted , error code 1. > Loading of dependent package XFree86 aoutlibs-3.3.3 failed > Any thing i should loose beauty-sleep over? I've had this happen before with 4.0, and IIRC, it has to do with Netscape. After the installation is over, go back in and install Netscape and it works fine. -- David Johnson... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 19:30:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C288337B8C8 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA66635 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:30:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:30:35 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200006030230.MAA66635@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jun 2 20:43:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEBD37B770 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA54580; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <39387EDA.555E1FB2@gorean.org> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:43:22 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0528 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: leegold , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: domain names References: <000901bfccec$447d3e30$79e17ad1@leegold1> <39384C5B.9DE16CB9@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Johnson wrote: > > leegold wrote: > > > Let me start off by asking about the network setup via the sysinstall > > program. FSBD recognized my nic card, For "host name" i put in ham_on_rye. > > but i was at a loss to know what to put in for "domain name". > > If this is your own private little network, name it whatever you want. Well, don't name it _whatever_ you want... It's not a good idea to name it anything with a real domain name. No matter how often people say that this machine will never be connected to the internet, inevitably they are. :) Much better to give it a name like ham-on-rye.local. Other than using a fake domain name, you should obey the conventions for real hostnames, otherwise some of the freebsd and third party software will act in unpredictable ways. That means that the only characters in your domain name should be a-z, 0-9 and the - (dash). Also, make sure that your names for each host are in the /etc/hosts file, and that the IP's you use are ones from a range that's not used on the internet. You can find a list of the useful ranges in the comments in /etc/hosts. Good luck, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jun 3 16:51: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from guitar.ocn.ne.jp (guitar.ocn.ne.jp [210.190.142.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA67137C4BB for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 16:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from la-novia@guitar.ocn.ne.jp) Received: from guitar.ocn.ne.jp (p26-dna04iwade.wakayama.ocn.ne.jp [210.154.178.250]) by guitar.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with SMTP id IAA14674 for ; Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:50:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:50:55 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200006032350.IAA14674@guitar.ocn.ne.jp> From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?W0xhIE5vdmlhXSAbJEI9UDJxJCQkTiVbITwlYCVaITwlODMrQF8bKEIg?= To: =?iso-2022-jp?B?ZnJlZWJzZC1uZXdiaWVzQGZyZWVic2Qub3Jn?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPVAycSQkJE4lWyE8JWAlWiE8JTgkTiQqJDckaSQ7GyhC?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset= "ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 突然、あなた様に新しいホームページのご案内をメ−ル致しました。 今回限りのご案内ですので、ご不快かもしれませんが、お許し下さい。 ご興味がなければ、恐れ入りますが、このメ−ルを削除してください。 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ■ 出会いの広場『La Novia』 ■　会員制 ----------------------------------------------------------------- 　　 会員の中からあなたの希望する交際相手を検索し、無料で相手の写真付プロ フィールを1名（女性の方は3名）郵便で紹介するシステム(会員制) 独自の交際情報誌を発行して、自由に交際相手を選べるシステム(会員制） ホームページでは、レンタル掲示板、地域別の掲示板開設 出会いのメールマガジンに投稿できます。 ホームページ登録検索システム（サーチエンジン）開設 くわしくはホームページをご覧ください。 http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~la-novia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message