From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 30 9:45:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.screaming.net (smtp.screaming.net [212.49.224.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBA037B611 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bigotfo@bigfoot.com) Received: from lexx.my.domain (dyn14-ras29.screaming.net [212.49.252.14]) by smtp.screaming.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29214 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:47:42 GMT From: John Murphy To: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: 4.1 install via dialup success thanks Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:45:07 +0100 Organization: The Organisation Reply-To: bigotfo@bigfoot.com Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm delighted to say I've successfully installed 4.1 through a 3.1 firewall to a dial up UK ISP with a 3 hour timeout. My first install via network. #uname -a =46reeBSD wall.my.domain 4.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE #0: Thu Jul 27 = 04:44:16 GMT 2000 root@usw4.freebsd.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC i386 I wasn't sure how the install would cope with sudden loss of connection and a hard reset! But it did well, and it runs. I'm amazed how quickly it boots, compared to 3.1. Must be the ad driver I guess. Thanks again, John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 30 9:58:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (rly-ip01.mx.aol.com [205.188.156.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17D737B615 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from John1mick@cs.com) Received: from tot-wp1-wo.proxy.aol.com (tot-wp1-wo.proxy.aol.com [205.188.200.3]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA03968 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (AC8F7BE6.ipt.aol.com [172.143.123.230]) by tot-wp1-wo.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id e6UGvNY12014 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bffa47$42c6a580$695a023f@oemcomputer> From: "John Michelini" To: Subject: This mailing list daemon Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:57:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Apparently-From: JohnCrealey@cs.com Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings, What port is used to run this mailing list? I am thinking of installing something similiar at work and I am curious what this would entail. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 30 11:25:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from stinky.trash.net (stinky.trash.net [195.141.182.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3F537B6C6 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:25:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomasb@stinky.trash.net) Received: (from thomasb@localhost) by stinky.trash.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e6UIPZK23895 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:25:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:25:35 +0200 From: Thomas Bader To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This mailing list daemon Message-ID: <20000730202535.C23657@trash.net> Reply-To: Thomas Bader References: <000901bffa47$42c6a580$695a023f@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <000901bffa47$42c6a580$695a023f@oemcomputer>; from John1mick@cs.com on Sun, Jul 30, 2000 at 09:57:34AM -0700 Organization: trash.net - Internet Technology for everybody - http://www.trash.net/ X-Url: X-Cool: get your free UNIX account @ http://www.trash.net/ X-PGP-Key: mailto (automated reply) X-PGP-Algorithms: RSA and DSA/EG keys are available X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc X-Editor: Vim-506 http://www.vim.org Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * John Michelini [000730 18:57]: > What port is used to run this mailing list? I am thinking of installing > something similiar at work and I am curious what this would entail. I guess it's Majordomo, available as /usr/ports/mail/majordomo. But I wouldn't recommend you the use of Majordomo either. It has a ugly bug, which allows local users to execute code as the majordomo-user. This issue wasn't ever fixed by the majordomo-development-team since a few years now and this is *really* strange. Better you use Mailman (available as /usr/ports/mail/mailman), which is easy to administer and has a nice Web-Interface. Thomas --=20 .-. Thomas Bader =B7 thomasb@trash.net.remove =B7 http://www.t-bader.ch= / .-. oo| o= o| /`'\ Einen Unix-Shellaccount gibt es unter http://www.trash.net/ /`= '\ (\_;/) PGP Key-ID: 0x3A4B7F5D (RSA) 0x7584F5D8 (DSA/EG) (\_= ;/) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 31 1:28:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from anu.ie (mail.anu.net [194.106.136.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EBD37BAC2 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Hostmaster@anu.net) Received: from [194.106.136.29] (194.106.136.29) by anu.ie with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0) for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:28:40 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: hostmaster@mail.anu.ie Message-Id: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:28:40 +0100 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org From: Hostmaster Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please contact me if you have any questions. Regards, Steve Lowe. System Administrator. ANU Hostmaster hostmaster@anu.net http://www.anu.ie/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANU Internet Services James St, Westport, Co Mayo, Ireland Tel: (+353) 98 28300 Fax: (+353) 98 28593 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 31 1:43:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from secure.smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu07.email.msn.com [207.46.181.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32C637BB37 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anthonymo_tse@email.msn.com) Received: from tony - 207.5.159.128 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01bffacb$674455e0$0a00a8c0@ett> Reply-To: "Tony" From: "Tony" To: , "MrBoboo" Cc: "newbie @ freebsd" References: Subject: Re: icq ports Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 04:43:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org if you use more then one IM and your running x you should try jabber......very nice multi-IM client ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conrad Sabatier" To: "MrBoboo" Cc: "newbie @ freebsd" Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 1:33 AM Subject: RE: icq ports > > On 23-Jul-00 MrBoboo wrote: > > which port is the best ICQ clone/prog?? > > i have heard of Licq but is that the best, i also have aol im > > i am running xfree85 3.3.5 and KDE 1.1.1 > > plan on upgrading soon > > Rob > > mrboboo@home.com > > I've tried pretty much all of 'em, and Licq is the best and most complete, IMHO. > > Your mileage may vary, of course. :-) > > -- > Conrad Sabatier > http://members.home.net/conrads/ > ICQ# 1147270 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 31 7:27:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753CD37B5FD; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gene_dinkey@hp.com) Received: from amrelay1.boi.hp.com (amrelay1.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.24]) by palrel1.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B8EB83; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xboibrg1.boi.hp.com (xboibrg1.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.167]) by amrelay1.boi.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18979)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with SMTP id IAA27591; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 15.56.8.167 by xboibrg1.boi.hp.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:27:32 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time) Received: by xboibrg1.boi.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:27:32 -0600 Message-ID: From: "DINKEY,GENE (HP-Loveland,ex1)" To: "'Sudhindra Bengeri'" , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: booting single usr mode: / was not properly dismounted Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:27:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You should boot the system up and do a fsck, this will go through and attempt to verify data on the various slices. It is wise to always make sure your BSD system is shutdown properly. After running the fsck do a: shutdown -r now to reboot the system. It should come up and run another fsck, hopefuly the drive problems will be correctedand the system will come up normaly. Gene >-----Original Message----- >From: Sudhindra Bengeri [mailto:bengeri@torrentnet.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 5:59 PM >To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >Subject: Re: booting single usr mode: / was not properly dismounted > > >Sorry, I had a typo in my prev posting. I had written > >"the root-device is not mounted read-only" it should have been >"the root-device is now mounted read-only". > >Rgds, >Sudhin > > >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Sudhindra Bengeri wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The primary kernel file, /kernel has some problem, I have a >backup of this >> file on the /home filesystem. The other kernel file that I >have in the >> root device fails to boot in the multiuser mode. >> >> I tried entering the single user mode, by >> >> boot: /kernel.ORIG -s >> >> This boots up but gives the following warning >> >> WARNING: / was not properly dismounted >> >> the root-device is not mounted read-only. Is there any way >by which I can >> dismount this read-only filesystem and mount it as read-write. >> >> Thanks in anticipation. >> >> Regards, >> Sudhin >> >> -- >> Sudhindra Suresh Bengeri bengeri@torrentnet.com >> Ericsson IP Infrastructure (919) 472-9945 >Fax:(919) 472-9999 >> 920 Main Campus Drive, Suite 544 Raleigh, NC 27606 > >> >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 3:39:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from lci-mx.lci.dcc.uff.br (lci-mx.lcc.uff.br [200.20.15.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A636037BED1 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 03:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bruno.jose@lci.dcc.uff.br) Received: by lci-mx.lcc.uff.br with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:15:32 -0300 Message-ID: <61CFC7D49104D41184DB000021D41C0B0BA67F@lci-mx.lcc.uff.br> From: Bruno Jose To: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: freebsd and linux ? Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:15:31 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi,=20 freebsd isn=B4t an linux? ok ?? Freebsd and Linux are compatible? Binaries or source? Thank=B4s Portuguese: { oi, freebsd n=E3o =E9 um linux? =E9 ?? Freebsd e Linux s=E3o compat=EDveis? Bin=E1rios ou Fontes? Obrigado } BJ - Bruno Olivieri Brazil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 8:41:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from spectre.honk.org (cr876208-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com [24.42.175.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C0A37B9B6 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from spectre.honk.org (mpoulin@spectre.honk.org [24.42.175.137]) by spectre.honk.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA04590; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:41:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Marty Poulin To: Bruno Jose Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: Re: freebsd and linux ? In-Reply-To: <61CFC7D49104D41184DB000021D41C0B0BA67F@lci-mx.lcc.uff.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Bruno Jose wrote: > Hi,=20 >=20 >=20 > freebsd isn=B4t an linux? ok ?? No - FreeBSD is a "child" of BSD Unix (based on 4.4BSD-Lite code). Linux is a clone of Sys V Unix (Linux kernel was written entirely by Linus Torvalds) >=20 >=20 > Freebsd and Linux are compatible? Binaries or source? >=20 Yes - you can run Linux apps on FreeBSD, and many applications that are written for Linux are also written for FreeBSD. You can't run FreeBSD apps on Linux though. >=20 > Thank=B4s To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 9:48:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB93D37C0D4 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Received: from localhost (lplist@localhost) by q.closedsrc.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e71GluJ03616 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: SSH2 Client Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I just CVSup'd my machine to (according to uname -a) 4.1-STABLE from 4.1-RC and somehow OpenSSH v2 got pulled down and installed properly, but somehow the ssh client can only support SSH v1. I tried to do a make && make install on /usr/ports/security/ssh2 and the make failed after trying to test for xauth. I really would like to get ssh working with v2. Thanks // Linh Pham // http://closedsrc.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 9:50:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124D637BD6C for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Received: from localhost (lplist@localhost) by q.closedsrc.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e71GoEP03648 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:50:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: SSH2 Client Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nevermind... I needed to use /usr/bin/ssh instead of /usr/local/bin/ssh. My bad :) // Linh Pham // http://closedsrc.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 11:31:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from alicia.nttmcl.com (alicia.nttmcl.com [216.69.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E390837BA12; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ekapol@nttmcl.com) Received: from ekapol (dhcp244.nttmcl.com [216.69.69.244]) by alicia.nttmcl.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA12132; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:30:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "ekapol rojpiboonphun" To: Cc: Subject: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:35:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-newbies To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 12:50:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f200.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0362337B609 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david_calkins@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 38735 invoked by uid 0); 1 Aug 2000 19:50:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20000801195036.38734.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.91.146.34 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 12:50:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.91.146.34] From: "David Calkins" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: odd video problem after installation Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:50:36 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just purchased FreeBSD v4.0, installed it and am having some odd video problems after installation. I have been unable to find an answer to this in the docs/FAQ/etc. so I am posting here. I am using an ATI Expert 128 video card (Rage 128 GL chip, 16MB ram). In in X setup utility, I chose the ATI Rage 128 (Generic) card option. Also, I selected the WindowMaker window manager during install. When I run startx, things seem to come up ok. But, I seem to get odd looking display 'defects'. Groups of vertical lines appear in different places. Also, the font is not visible at all. The window borders, etc. appear ok as well as the icons (with some defects in the icons as well). I've tried switching to different video modes, but it always happens. Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 12:58:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DEF737BD64 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Received: from fagan (wiseman.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA47626 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:58:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <03ea01bffbf2$a0ece3c0$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: Subject: Book Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:56:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03E7_01BFFBC8.B80612E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E7_01BFFBC8.B80612E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teach Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000=20 ISBN: 0672318547=20 ------=_NextPart_000_03E7_01BFFBC8.B80612E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Teach=20 Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days
Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000
ISBN:=20 0672318547 
 
------=_NextPart_000_03E7_01BFFBC8.B80612E0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 13:18:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (fepout3.telus.net [199.185.220.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A523337BD0E; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q@crackbaby.org) Received: from ricepower ([209.53.59.203]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP id <20000801201514.BYEV288.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@ricepower>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:15:14 -0600 Message-ID: <004401bffbf5$38df97c0$cb3b35d1@bconnected.net> From: "Q Tuyen" To: , Subject: MAKE BUILDWORLD Segmentation fault - core dumped HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:15:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello keep getting this error when i tried to do make buildworld or make world I'd read teh /usr/src/UPDATING but can't seem to figure out what is the problems with this anyone can point me to the right direction on fixing this problems Im currently runing 4.0 R. Did a cvsup on the src and all the ports right b 4 i tried make buildworld. I check and clean out /usr/obj before i did make buildworld. So /usr/obj is clean. I goal is to upgrade to 4.0 STABLE and build a kernel after. I'd been at this make buildworld for bout the 10 times now. One problems after next. This really got me. I'd also tried to cd /usr/src/ make clean then make update cvsup again. And make build world I got the same error msg again Thx much /usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF pair.c cc -c -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DVERSION=\"0.10\" -DXS_VERSION=\"0.10\" -DPIC -fpic -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF hash.c Segmentation fault - core dumped *** Error code 139 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File/sdbm. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ -=- Quang (Peter) Tuyen q@tuyen.org -=- Email: q@coreerror.com & q@innocenttime.com & q@bcculture.com -=- Fax No: 1+604+2518076 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 -=- Voicemail: 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 ‹{º¿º}› Patient dies.... but Love lives.......... ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 13:45:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F7937BAFE for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15878; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:45:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdM15876; Wed Aug 2 06:45:06 2000 Message-ID: <00a101bffbf9$f88f42b0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "David Johnson" , "leegold" Cc: References: <000b01bff0cb$f90fe8e0$57e17ad1@beefstew> <39749BDA.8E6A214B@acuson.com> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:49:18 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a bunch of FreeBSD gateway boxes running around the city and they have proved extremely reliable and certainly more efficient than the few WinNT / Win2000 ones .... however the problems I experience trying to figure out every change to the system have me seriously thinking of moving to SCO which at least comes with a proper manual (ie with ALL the information one needs readily available) From my experience, the lack of quickly available config information is a major reason why many enterprise level business stick with commercial O/S'es ... OK I know there are places like Walnut Creek etc, but what about the countless others who can't afford the problems associated with a product with incomplete docs. As for the GUI stuff, few enterprise level businesses will accept anything as poxy as KDE or Gnome (what bright spark had the idea of putting that ugly great paw icon there) If I don't make the move to SCO I'll be looking seriously at the CDE stuff for FreeBSD, two things I certainly won't use are KDE & Gnome ... who needs to be associated with the linux lunatic fringe !!!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 14: 1:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0AA37BE77 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:01:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-223-26.s26.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.223.26] helo=beefstew) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.15 #2) id 13JjA1-0003d8-00; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:01:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01bffbfb$b1fc2c80$1adf7ad1@beefstew> From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: References: <000b01bff0cb$f90fe8e0$57e17ad1@beefstew> <39749BDA.8E6A214B@acuson.com> <00a101bffbf9$f88f42b0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:01:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org SCO has the rep. of being the best documented - is this true? ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Young To: David Johnson ; leegold Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:49 PM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > I have a bunch of FreeBSD gateway boxes running > around the city and they have proved extremely reliable > and certainly more efficient than the few WinNT / Win2000 > ones .... however the problems I experience trying to figure > out every change to the system have me seriously thinking > of moving to SCO which at least comes with a proper > manual (ie with ALL the information one needs readily > available) From my experience, the lack of quickly available > config information is a major reason why many enterprise level > business stick with commercial O/S'es ... OK I know there are > places like Walnut Creek etc, but what about the countless > others who can't afford the problems associated with a product > with incomplete docs. > > As for the GUI stuff, few enterprise level businesses will accept > anything as poxy as KDE or Gnome (what bright spark had the > idea of putting that ugly great paw icon there) If I don't make the > move to SCO I'll be looking seriously at the CDE stuff for FreeBSD, > two things I certainly won't use are KDE & Gnome ... who needs to > be associated with the linux lunatic fringe !!!!! > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 14:31:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 53C0337BDBC for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from juasiepo@yahoo.com) Received: from 217-alic-x9.libre.retevision.es (HELO juan) (62.82.172.217) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2000 19:57:18 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <003401bffbf2$cf801b80$0300a8c0@juan> From: "Juan" To: Subject: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:58:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 15: 0: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E9337BECB for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15946; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:57:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdH15944; Wed Aug 2 07:57:48 2000 Message-ID: <00bd01bffc04$20562b10$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <000b01bff0cb$f90fe8e0$57e17ad1@beefstew> <39749BDA.8E6A214B@acuson.com> <00a101bffbf9$f88f42b0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <000a01bffbfb$b1fc2c80$1adf7ad1@beefstew> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:01:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org SCO docs are certainly the best I've come across ..... unlike open source stuff ALL the info you need is readily available in one place .... dunno if SCO is as stable as FreeBSD but at least the issue of installation / configuration of something different isn't the command performance it typically is with FreeBSD. The OZ distributors run "Quarterly Business Briefings" and usually have plenty of free copies of the manual / media packs etc to give away so one doesn't need to spend the $120 odd that bookshops ask for the thing. I'm really impressed with the reliability of FreeBSD, however the difficulty experienced in getting unfamiliar stuff working due to the dreadfully inadequate explanations provided in available docs is frustrating me to the point where I'm seriously considering a move to SCO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:01 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > SCO has the rep. of being the best documented - is this true? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Young > To: David Johnson ; leegold > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > I have a bunch of FreeBSD gateway boxes running > > around the city and they have proved extremely reliable > > and certainly more efficient than the few WinNT / Win2000 > > ones .... however the problems I experience trying to figure > > out every change to the system have me seriously thinking > > of moving to SCO which at least comes with a proper > > manual (ie with ALL the information one needs readily > > available) From my experience, the lack of quickly available > > config information is a major reason why many enterprise level > > business stick with commercial O/S'es ... OK I know there are > > places like Walnut Creek etc, but what about the countless > > others who can't afford the problems associated with a product > > with incomplete docs. > > > > As for the GUI stuff, few enterprise level businesses will accept > > anything as poxy as KDE or Gnome (what bright spark had the > > idea of putting that ugly great paw icon there) If I don't make the > > move to SCO I'll be looking seriously at the CDE stuff for FreeBSD, > > two things I certainly won't use are KDE & Gnome ... who needs to > > be associated with the linux lunatic fringe !!!!! > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 15:11:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from utep.el.utwente.nl (utep.el.utwente.nl [130.89.30.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F3637BE11 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A.Dergatchev@tn.utwente.nl) Received: from tn.utwente.nl (uttnb55.tn.utwente.nl [130.89.74.55]) by utep.el.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01879 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:12:04 +0200 Message-ID: <39874B66.446DEF7C@tn.utwente.nl> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 00:12:54 +0200 From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view References: <000b01bff0cb$f90fe8e0$57e17ad1@beefstew> <39749BDA.8E6A214B@acuson.com> <00a101bffbf9$f88f42b0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <000a01bffbfb$b1fc2c80$1adf7ad1@beefstew> <00bd01bffc04$20562b10$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > SCO docs are certainly the best I've come across ..... I wonder have you seen Solaris docs ? just wondering. their dead paper is somewhat pricy, but when you pay, you get ... let see ... around 50 manuals - everything is explained in details. And one can get all that free online on their docs site - good one imho. and Solaris isn't the best OS for all purposes either ... as for open software - one can't expect a $.01 writting it, so how os-professionals earning $$$/h will bother ? > unlike > open source stuff ALL the info you need is readily available > in one place .... dunno if SCO is as stable as FreeBSD but > at least the issue of installation / configuration of something > different isn't the command performance it typically is with > FreeBSD. The OZ distributors run "Quarterly Business Briefings" > and usually have plenty of free copies of the manual / media packs > etc to give away so one doesn't need to spend the $120 odd that > bookshops ask for the thing. > > I'm really impressed with the reliability of FreeBSD, however the > difficulty experienced in getting unfamiliar stuff working due to the > dreadfully inadequate explanations provided in available docs is > frustrating me to the point where I'm seriously considering a move > to SCO. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 15:40:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from milkyway.org (a98210.ntown.com [208.245.98.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C2837B609 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toby@milkyway.org) Received: from rigel.milkyway.org (rigel.milkyway.org [205.241.194.19]) by milkyway.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12120; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:55:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from toby@milkyway.org) Received: by rigel.milkyway.org with Microsoft Mail id <01BFFBE7.61D79A00@rigel.milkyway.org>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:36:18 -0400 Message-ID: <01BFFBE7.61D79A00@rigel.milkyway.org> From: Toby Swanson To: "'leegold'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:36:14 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 08/01/00 leegold wrote; SCO has the rep. of being the best documented - is this true? I last admin'ed an Openserver 5.? box and the docs were very thorough. The company I worked for paid HUNDREDS of dollars for the docs and a couple thousand for the OS plus several hundred more for a 5 problem per year service contract. Compared to FreeBSD on the same hardware SCO seemed much slower. FreeBSD also seemed more stable and reliable and was easier to install and configure. If you have more money than time SCO may be the way to go. IMHO, FreeBSD is better general purpose OS. Toby To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 18:55:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uranus.interscope.ro (ns.interscope.ro [193.226.188.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B208837B65B for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:55:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from KoronkaS@interscope.ro) Received: by URANUS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:07:10 +0300 Message-ID: From: Stefan KORONKA To: 'David Calkins' Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: odd video problem after installation Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:07:09 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: David Calkins [mailto:david_calkins@hotmail.com] > Subject: odd video problem after installation > > I just purchased FreeBSD v4.0, installed it and am having > some odd video > problems after installation. I have been unable to find an > answer to this > in the docs/FAQ/etc. so I am posting here. > > I am using an ATI Expert 128 video card (Rage 128 GL chip, > 16MB ram). In in > X setup utility, I chose the ATI Rage 128 (Generic) card > option. Also, I > selected the WindowMaker window manager during install. > > When I run startx, things seem to come up ok. But, I seem to get odd > looking display 'defects'. Groups of vertical lines appear > in different > places. Also, the font is not visible at all. The window > borders, etc. > appear ok as well as the icons (with some defects in the > icons as well). > > I've tried switching to different video modes, but it always happens. > > Any ideas? It isn't an FreeBSD issue; you may want to check the XFree86 compatibility list (www.xfree86.org). Maybe you need to install XFree86 4.0.1, which (I think) has better support for Rage 128. Stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 19: 7:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD4137BF7E for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16221; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:07:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdb16219; Wed Aug 2 12:07:02 2000 Message-ID: <003b01bffc26$f1c72420$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Toby Swanson" , "'leegold'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <01BFFBE7.61D79A00@rigel.milkyway.org> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:11:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of FreeBSD, however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 steps" type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would certainly challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... to get something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & bits of that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, then post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the exact same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe OK for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for businesses who just need the thing working yesterday. I regularly come across consultants in the same position as I am .... tried FreeBSD, loved its reliability, but eventually got so frustrated with poorly documented config issues that they moved their clients to a less stable but better documented O/S. I've tried to write some "real world" docs and have received countless compliments for what I've done, but pressures of time make it very difficult just figuring stuff out leaving no spare minutes to put what I've learned into text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Swanson" To: "'leegold'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:36 AM Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > On 08/01/00 leegold wrote; > > > SCO has the rep. of being the best documented - is this true? > > > I last admin'ed an Openserver 5.? box and the docs were very > thorough. The company I worked for paid HUNDREDS of dollars > for the docs and a couple thousand for the OS plus several > hundred more for a 5 problem per year service contract. > Compared to FreeBSD on the same hardware SCO seemed much slower. > FreeBSD also seemed more stable and reliable and was easier to > install and configure. > > If you have more money than time SCO may be the way to go. IMHO, > FreeBSD is better general purpose OS. > > Toby > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 19:37:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f261.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F2B537BA01 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ntvsunix@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 1807 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 2000 02:37:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20000802023710.1806.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.53.54.44 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:37:10 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.53.54.44] From: "Some Person" To: sfagan@pmr.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:37:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dunno where you saw this, but I don't see on SAMS publishing's web site any reference to this book, not even with the ISBN. Maybe I'm just tired, but I certainly can't find it. Would you be able to reply-all with the full URL? I'd love to see this. >Teach Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days >Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000 >ISBN: 0672318547 > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 22:10:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from noc.usvi.net (noc-96-4.usvi.net [208.30.96.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEE837C022 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c2it@islands.vi) Received: from islands.vi (189-p2.Tnt01.STT.VIaccess.Net [63.64.77.189]) by noc.usvi.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18388 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:10:05 -0400 (AST) Message-ID: <3987A0BA.48FA20B4@islands.vi> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 01:16:59 -0300 From: c2it X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Book for Newbees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What is the latest ftp for the complete Freebsd book for newbee -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 1 23:24:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from charlie.cns.iit.edu (charlie.cns.iit.edu [216.47.143.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02AC37C013 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maneben@charlie.cns.iit.edu) Received: from charlie.cns.iit.edu (charlie.cns.iit.edu [216.47.143.70]) by charlie.cns.iit.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA30587; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:23:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:23:51 -0500 From: "Benjamin M. Manes" To: c2it Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Book for Newbees In-Reply-To: <3987A0BA.48FA20B4@islands.vi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, c2it wrote: > What is the latest ftp for the complete Freebsd book for newbee Do you mean the Comprehensive Guide to FreeBSD? To my knowledge, that's the only free one out there. The Complete FreeBSD is not free, and must be bought (and is worth it). http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 5:47:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (fepout3.telus.net [199.185.220.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F6B37B85C; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 05:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q@crackbaby.org) Received: from ricepower ([209.53.59.203]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP id <20000802124726.EMKZ288.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@ricepower>; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:47:26 -0600 Message-ID: <007a01bffc7f$d54b6f00$cb3b35d1@bconnected.net> From: "Q Tuyen" To: , Subject: make buildworld FAILED Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 05:47:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello keep getting this error when i tried to do make buildworld or make world I'd read teh /usr/src/UPDATING but can't seem to figure out what is the problems with this anyone can point me to the right direction on fixing this problems Im currently runing 4.0 R. Did a cvsup on the src and all the ports right b 4 i tried make buildworld. I check and clean out /usr/obj before i did make buildworld. So /usr/obj is clean. I goal is to upgrade to 4.0 STABLE and build a kernel after. I'd been at this make buildworld for bout the 10 times now. One problems after next. This really got me. I'd also tried to cd /usr/src/ make clean then make update cvsup again. And make build world I got the same error msg again Thx much /usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF pair.c cc -c -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DVERSION=\"0.10\" -DXS_VERSION=\"0.10\" -DPIC -fpic -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF hash.c Segmentation fault - core dumped *** Error code 139 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File/sdbm. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ -=- Quang (Peter) Tuyen q@tuyen.org -=- Email: q@coreerror.com & q@innocenttime.com & q@bcculture.com -=- Fax No: 1+604+2518076 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 -=- Voicemail: 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 ‹{º¿º}› Patient dies.... but Love lives.......... ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 6:10: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBE537B6BD for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Received: from fagan (wiseman.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04266; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:10:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <054701bffc82$afdb5c00$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Some Person" , , References: <20000802023710.1806.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:08:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.border.com Found it here searching for BSD. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Some Person" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) > Dunno where you saw this, but I don't see on SAMS publishing's web site any > reference to this book, not even with the ISBN. > > Maybe I'm just tired, but I certainly can't find it. Would you be able to > reply-all with the full URL? I'd love to see this. > > >Teach Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days > >Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000 > >ISBN: 0672318547 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 6:19:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f288.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 996E237B5C1 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david_calkins@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 66403 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 2000 13:20:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20000802132003.66402.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.91.146.34 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 06:20:03 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.91.146.34] From: "David Calkins" To: FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: update to odd video problems issue Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:20:03 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I previously wrote to this list and reported that I experienced strange video problems after installing FreeBSD v4.0. I have done some more research, and I *think* the problem is not with the video. Rather, I think that the fonts are not properly installed. I received an error message telling me to run makefontdir, and that the fonts were not properly installed/configured. The directory it was referring to (.../fonts) is completely empty. When I installed I chose the All option which selected everything. Does anyone know of problems with the installer that would prevent fonts from being properly installed? Any ideas how to reinstall the fonts? This does kind of make sense because the text is what is messed up in the display. Perhaps this is because it can't find the fonts its looking for. Although, I'm rather surprised it doesn't just substitute another font instead, though... :-( ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 6:31:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from sunburst.csfi.com (sunburst.csfi.com [204.1.38.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3182437B8F3 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yong@csfi.com) Received: from yongdell (pc_yong [204.1.38.26]) by sunburst.csfi.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA10809; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Yong Lim" To: "Steve Fagan" , "Some Person" , Subject: RE: Book (New FreeBSD book?) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:31:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <054701bffc82$afdb5c00$1600010a@pmr.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve, I think you mean to say www.borders.com Yong -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Steve Fagan Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:08 AM To: Some Person; sfagan@pmr.com; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) www.border.com Found it here searching for BSD. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Some Person" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) > Dunno where you saw this, but I don't see on SAMS publishing's web site any > reference to this book, not even with the ISBN. > > Maybe I'm just tired, but I certainly can't find it. Would you be able to > reply-all with the full URL? I'd love to see this. > > >Teach Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days > >Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000 > >ISBN: 0672318547 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 6:34:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uranus.interscope.ro (ns.interscope.ro [193.226.188.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3FC37B8E3 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:34:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from KoronkaS@interscope.ro) Received: by URANUS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:34:30 +0300 Message-ID: From: Stefan KORONKA To: FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.org Cc: 'David Calkins' Subject: RE: update to odd video problems issue Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:34:28 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: David Calkins [mailto:david_calkins@hotmail.com] > Subject: update to odd video problems issue > > > I previously wrote to this list and reported that I > experienced strange > video problems after installing FreeBSD v4.0. I have done some more > research, and I *think* the problem is not with the video. > > Rather, I think that the fonts are not properly installed. I > received an > error message telling me to run makefontdir, and that the > fonts were not > properly installed/configured. > > The directory it was referring to (.../fonts) is completely > empty. When I > installed I chose the All option which selected everything. > > Does anyone know of problems with the installer that would > prevent fonts > from being properly installed? Any ideas how to reinstall the fonts? as root, run /stand/sysinstall go to custom/distribution/custom/xfree86/fonts select averything you need (including the font server) go back to custom, and choose commit now you should have the fonts installed Stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 6:36: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E7037B6D7 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Received: from fagan (wiseman.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07529; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:35:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <05a301bffc86$4f6ca280$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Yong Lim" , "Some Person" , References: Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:33:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yep too early to type! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yong Lim" To: "Steve Fagan" ; "Some Person" ; Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: RE: Book (New FreeBSD book?) > Steve, I think you mean to say www.borders.com > > Yong > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Steve Fagan > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:08 AM > To: Some Person; sfagan@pmr.com; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) > > > www.border.com > > Found it here searching for BSD. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Some Person" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:37 PM > Subject: Re: Book (New FreeBSD book?) > > > > Dunno where you saw this, but I don't see on SAMS publishing's web site > any > > reference to this book, not even with the ISBN. > > > > Maybe I'm just tired, but I certainly can't find it. Would you be able to > > reply-all with the full URL? I'd love to see this. > > > > >Teach Yourself Free BSD in 21 Days > > >Hardcover, 800 Pages, Sams, October 2000 > > >ISBN: 0672318547 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 9:13:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.screaming.net (smtp.screaming.net [212.49.224.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D21737BB9F for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:13:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bigotfo@bigfoot.com) Received: from lexx.my.domain (dyn4-118-ras56.screaming.net [212.188.155.118]) by smtp.screaming.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02436 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:16:07 GMT From: John Murphy To: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: 4.1, UK keyboards (long rant) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:13:26 +0100 Organization: The Organisation Reply-To: bigotfo@bigfoot.com Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org =46reeBSD 4.1 Release. I was trying to get my UK keyboard to work properly with XFree86 4, but that is another story... I found that I just couldn't get a =A3 (shift 3) to display. Using any UK keymap, the keystroke just produced a beep (bell). Any other keymap and the key produced a # or another character. I checked on a 3.2 machine and found a pound sign. Set the console settings to the same as the 3.2 box - ditto. Swopped drives around so that 4.1 ran on the same hardware - No =A3 ! Checked the mappings for shift 3 for differences between 3.2 and 4.1 Both map it to 163 (IIRC). Tried some other fonts and found 9 SWISS (English, better resolution) beautifully clear, and /stand/sysinstall looks good with it, so this has _not_ been a waste of time. I ran an editor, to put some notes together about this strange - bug? Pressed shift 3 and NO BEEP but an accented u character that I've seen in place of pound signs in .uk newsgroups occasionally. So; the problem is only shell related dawned upon me, and I remembered that 4.1 now defaults to tcsh not csh. Ran tcsh on 3.2, pressed shift 3 and BEEP. Went to bed. There is no reason I can think of why anyone would need to use a pound sign in the shell, but it is possible to touch a file in csh with the '=A3' character therein (it appears as a question mark when listed). Difficult to remove it with tcsh. This is no place for technical questions, but: if anyone knows what I could use to replace the actual accented u, displayed with the SWISS font, with a proper uk pound sign, or would like to do it... John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 9:14:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC89137BBD9 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MSILVER@scana.com) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id MAA12162; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maildmis.scana.com(161.156.252.70) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma011944; Wed, 2 Aug 00 12:13:07 -0400 Received: from msg12.scana.com [161.156.252.70] by msg12.scana.com [161.156.252.70] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id DEAD0E3B680E11D4BDE000A0C9DB1A50 for plus 1 more; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:10:52 -0400 Received: by maildmis.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:10:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Reply-To: msilver@sc.rr.com To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'Doug Young'" Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:10:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I couldn't agree more. >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of FreeBSD, >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 steps" >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would certainly >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... to get >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & bits of >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, then >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the exact >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe OK >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for businesses >who just need the thing working yesterday. You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX programmers complain about this same thing. I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted to set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step by step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the hardest part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common denomenator (like me). Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? If not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. ...Michael... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 9:21:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771DE37BBD9 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Received: from fagan (wiseman.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29101; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:21:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'Doug Young'" References: Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:19:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd One site I like. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'Doug Young'" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > I couldn't agree more. > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > FreeBSD, > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 steps" > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > certainly > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... to > get > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & bits > of > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, then > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the > exact > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe OK > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for > businesses > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > programmers complain about this same thing. > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted to > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step by > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the hardest > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > denomenator (like me). > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? If > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > ...Michael... > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 9:30:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E4037BCBE for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@aracnet.com) Received: from shell1.aracnet.com (shell1.aracnet.com [216.99.193.21]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02509; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:30:48 -0700 Received: by shell1.aracnet.com (8.9.3) id JAA23690; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:30:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:30:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: msilver@sc.rr.com Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , "'Doug Young'" Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > programmers complain about this same thing. Sun employees a team of technical writers just for that purpose. The FreeBSD team can't afford something like that, nor do the developers want to do it. It ain't glamours but it's a perfect way for those of us who considers ourselves 'newbies' to contribute meaningfully. Check out the freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list. > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted to > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step by > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the hardest > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > denomenator (like me). http://www.freebsddiary.org (.com?) goes a long ways towards doing just this. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 10:40:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (fepout3.telus.net [199.185.220.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728D337B83E; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q@crackbaby.org) Received: from ricepower ([209.53.59.203]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP id <20000802173952.FLCB288.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@ricepower>; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:39:52 -0600 Message-ID: <000c01bffca8$af9758e0$cb3b35d1@bconnected.net> From: "Q Tuyen" To: , , Subject: make buildworld FAILED Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:40:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello keep getting this error when i tried to do make buildworld or make world I'd read teh /usr/src/UPDATING but can't seem to figure out what is the problems with this anyone can point me to the right direction on fixing this problems Im currently runing 4.0 R. Did a cvsup on the src and all the ports right b 4 i tried make buildworld. I check and clean out /usr/obj before i did make buildworld. So /usr/obj is clean. I goal is to upgrade to 4.0 STABLE and build a kernel after. I'd been at this make buildworld for bout the 10 times now. One problems after next. This really got me. I'd also tried to cd /usr/src/ make clean then make update cvsup again. And make build world I got the same error msg again Thx much /usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF pair.c cc -c -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DVERSION=\"0.10\" -DXS_VERSION=\"0.10\" -DPIC -fpic -I/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl -DSDBM -DDUFF hash.c Segmentation fault - core dumped *** Error code 139 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File/sdbm. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/ext/SDBM_File. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/gnu. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ -=- Quang (Peter) Tuyen q@tuyen.org -=- Email: q@coreerror.com & q@innocenttime.com & q@bcculture.com -=- Fax No: 1+604+2518076 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 -=- Voicemail: 1+604+9740993 extension 1286 ‹{º¿º}› Patient dies.... but Love lives.......... ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 12:29:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7733D37B845 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17462; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:28:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdS17460; Thu Aug 3 05:28:52 2000 Message-ID: <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Steve Fagan" , , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:32:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm totally in favour of regular folks writing HOWTO docs, could never understand the logic of giving the job to propellorheads who write stuff that only others of their ilk can comprehend. For some reason there appears to be a taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Fagan" To: ; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'Doug Young'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:19 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd > > One site I like. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM > Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > I couldn't agree more. > > > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > > FreeBSD, > > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 steps" > > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > > certainly > > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a > > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... to > > get > > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & > bits > > of > > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, then > > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the > > exact > > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe OK > > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for > > businesses > > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted > to > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step > by > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the > hardest > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > denomenator (like me). > > > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? If > > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > > > ...Michael... > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 12:33:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B24A037BF6E for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17471; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:33:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdr17469; Thu Aug 3 05:32:59 2000 Message-ID: <015401bffcb9$10b7e620$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Rick Hamell" , Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:37:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've was subscribed to the docs list for months but gave it away as a bad joke .. its all propellorheads talking to others of their kind ..... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of touch with the "real world" folk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Hamell" To: Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" ; "'Doug Young'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:30 AM Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > Sun employees a team of technical writers just for that > purpose. The FreeBSD team can't afford something like that, nor do the > developers want to do it. It ain't glamours but it's a perfect way for > those of us who considers ourselves 'newbies' to contribute > meaningfully. Check out the freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list. > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted to > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step by > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the hardest > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > denomenator (like me). > > http://www.freebsddiary.org (.com?) goes a long ways towards doing just > this. > > Rick > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 12:50: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC18837C1AA for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17487; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:49:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdf17485; Thu Aug 3 05:49:45 2000 Message-ID: <016801bffcbb$68385770$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Steve Fagan" , , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:53:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Certainly a step in the right direction, although a few too many assumptions about prior knowledge. Possibly the info one needs is in print someplace, but the stuff is so horribly fragmented that its a jigsaw puzzle trying to locate all the pieces & assemble them .... and assuming the particular pieces of the jigsaw puzzle one needs are actually written in some language of planet earth. As I said in another posting, propellorheads are the LAST people who should be writing docs ...... if something can't be easily comprehended by newbies there is no point clogging up bandwidth or murdering trees. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Fagan" To: ; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'Doug Young'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:19 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd > > One site I like. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM > Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > I couldn't agree more. > > > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > > FreeBSD, > > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 steps" > > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > > certainly > > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a > > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... to > > get > > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & > bits > > of > > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, then > > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the > > exact > > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe OK > > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for > > businesses > > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted > to > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each with > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step > by > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate package > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the > hardest > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > denomenator (like me). > > > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? If > > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > > > ...Michael... > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 12:59:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7380337BF75 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K4f3-0009Rp-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:58:41 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:58:41 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Doug Young Cc: Steve Fagan , msilver@sc.rr.com, "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 05:32:45AM +1000 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 2000-08-03 (05:32), Doug Young wrote: > I'm totally in favour of regular folks writing HOWTO docs, could never > understand > the logic of giving the job to propellorheads who write stuff that only > others of their ilk can comprehend. For some reason there appears to be a > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions As a documentor for the FDP, I have to say that there is no taboo against any form of coherent documentation, and that I personally find it very disconcerting when the documents of the project, including my efforts ("The FreeBSD Booting Process", "Users and Basic Account Management", and "Disks" chapters in the handbook, to name the most recent) are commented against without any form of a) notification, b) suggestions, and c) content. All of our time is split between many tasks, and content-generation is possibly the biggest time spender you can find. If you really want to help out, submit your suggestions and content via send-pr (or, if you can't figure that out, to doc@FreeBSD.org), so that we know that people are reading things, and so we can improve things. Let me repeat my offer to any and all - if you generate the content, I will give suggestions, edit it, mark it up, and put it into the documentation project. You can submit in text or HTML, and I might even consider postscript or LaTeX. Don't let any pretense that there is a cost of admission fool you - just write it, and it will be considered. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 13: 5:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A8637C203 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K4l0-0009Si-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:04:50 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:04:50 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Rick Hamell Cc: msilver@sc.rr.com, "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , 'Doug Young' Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000802220450.B36147@mithrandr.moria.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@aracnet.com on Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 09:30:44AM -0700 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 2000-08-02 (09:30), Rick Hamell wrote: > Sun employees a team of technical writers just for that > purpose. The FreeBSD team can't afford something like that, nor do the > developers want to do it. It ain't glamours but it's a perfect way for > those of us who considers ourselves 'newbies' to contribute > meaningfully. Check out the freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list. I think you're making a false assumption when you say "it ain't glamours (sic)" to be a documentor, and when you say "nor do the developers want to do it." There is massive respect for people who write documentation in the development and user communities, and the developers often just don't have the time or ability to produce the end-results, and will often exchange email furiously with whoever does the documentation to help get it done. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 13:16:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E1D37BBE2 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17514; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:16:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdP17512; Thu Aug 3 06:16:06 2000 Message-ID: <018d01bffcbf$168aa000$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Neil Blakey-Milner" , "Rick Hamell" Cc: , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <20000802220450.B36147@mithrandr.moria.org> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:20:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm certain that there are many other relative newbies like myself who would be prepared to contribute to the documentation project. However during the several months I was subscribed to the docs list the ONLY discussion there was so far over my head that I eventually left the list. I accept the point that developers have other things to do, however it isn't doing FreeBSD much good if the O/S is being avoided by a substantial number of IT consultants because the present state of documentation is such that even relatively experienced unix users find its extremely difficult to get unfamiliar stuff configured. If the O/S is to stay largely in the developer community then I guess this issue isn't a real problem, however I did understand that at least some of the people who write the FreeBSD code would like to see the thing used in the "real world". One way to guarantee that it won't happen quickly is to keep the present "head in the sand" attitude in relation to docs !!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Blakey-Milner" To: "Rick Hamell" Cc: ; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" ; "'Doug Young'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:04 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > On Wed 2000-08-02 (09:30), Rick Hamell wrote: > > Sun employees a team of technical writers just for that > > purpose. The FreeBSD team can't afford something like that, nor do the > > developers want to do it. It ain't glamours but it's a perfect way for > > those of us who considers ourselves 'newbies' to contribute > > meaningfully. Check out the freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list. > > I think you're making a false assumption when you say "it ain't glamours > (sic)" to be a documentor, and when you say "nor do the developers want > to do it." > > There is massive respect for people who write documentation in the > development and user communities, and the developers often just don't > have the time or ability to produce the end-results, and will often > exchange email furiously with whoever does the documentation to help get > it done. > > Neil > -- > Neil Blakey-Milner > Sunesi Clinical Systems > nbm@mithrandr.moria.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 13:27:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2329137C25C for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17525; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:27:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdX17523; Thu Aug 3 06:27:04 2000 Message-ID: <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Neil Blakey-Milner" Cc: "Steve Fagan" , , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:31:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As a documentor for the FDP, I have to say that there is no taboo > against any form of coherent documentation, Actually my comment was "For some reason there appears to be a > > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions" I have yet to see an official attempt at a "step by step" explanation of anything. The present docs are a dreadful jigsaw puzzle .... its rarely possible to find ALL the info one needs in one place, if indeed the stuff can be found (and comprehended) at all. Certainly FreeBSD docs are better than their linux equivalents, but thats not anything like saying they are good. Think of the situation faced by IT consultants in an average day ...... all the clients want is their application working properly, & no matterhow good FreeBSD is, if its gonna take days to get an answer from wherever they will happily pay out $$$ for a different O/S To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 13:36:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654FD37BEE3 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K5FZ-0009ZV-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:36:25 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:36:25 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Doug Young Cc: Steve Fagan , msilver@sc.rr.com, "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000802223625.A36720@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 06:31:19AM +1000 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 2000-08-03 (06:31), Doug Young wrote: > > As a documentor for the FDP, I have to say that there is no taboo > > against any form of coherent documentation, > > Actually my comment was "For some reason there appears to be a > > > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions" Yes, I read it. And I repeat - there is no taboo against any form of coherent documentation, be it "step by step", or otherwise. > I have yet to see an official attempt at a "step by step" explanation of > anything. Look at http://www.FreeBSD.org/tutorials/dialup-firewall/article.html. It's the first of, I hope, a number of step-by-step "recipe" type documents. > The present docs are a dreadful jigsaw puzzle .... its rarely possible to > find ALL the info one needs in one place, if indeed the stuff can be found > (and comprehended) at all. Later on, I said something like "you're not notifying the documentation project". Whenever you run into a problem, immediately mail doc@FreeBSD.org, and it'll get fixed. If you can figure out how to use send-pr, even better, since we can track your suggestions better. If you don't notify the documentation project, _nothing_ will happen to change your irritation. Best yet, suggest what you'd like it to look like, or write the content, or learn how to make patches, or something to lessen the load of work on the other contributors, and increase your benefit to and from the project. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 13:45:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80C037BAAC for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MSILVER@scana.com) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id QAA07061; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maildmis.scana.com(161.156.252.68) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma007029; Wed, 2 Aug 00 16:44:37 -0400 Received: from msg11.scana.com [161.156.252.68] by msg11.scana.com [161.156.252.68] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id F85CDE02688F11D4B3F200A0C98F15C0 for plus 3 more; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:42:07 -0400 Received: by maildmis.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:42:07 -0400 Message-ID: From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'Neil Blakey-Milner'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , "'Rick Hamell'" , "'Doug Young'" Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:42:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think this discussion of docs is getting too heated. Among the things that impressed me most about FreeBSD was the documentation. It isn't very often you see a 700 page "handbook" on how to set it up free software (and have it in at least 4 different formats). I have relied heavily on the handbook and The Complete FreeBSD book. I would not have been able to do the simplest things with out them. You would be challenged to find better and more up-to-date documentation on any other free software. The problem lies in the gap between experienced UNIX admins and inexperienced UNIX users, like myself (striving to be an admin). Certain knowledge of UNIX is assumed, not purposely by the doc writers, but the doc writer already have this knowledge. Many "newbies" simply don't have this knowledge. It almost seems an insult to those that document FreeBSD to have simple step by step instructions on doing very specific mundane tasks, however this is what many of us require. I don't know how this would fit into the current documentation project. This really should be a separate "how to" or example manual. I have seen a few web sites that have done a great job with this. Unfortunately, they often have about 20 how-to examples. Although good ones, they don't always ally to my situation. Neil, how can we help with the documentation project? How can we build a document that will help new people setup and configure FreeBSD? I think the Handbook has great content for newbies, sometimes. Somehow we need to fill in the gaps, before we can no longer appreciate the needs of the newer users. (if that made any sense) I think most people here want to help, and add to, not throw away the incredible documentation that has taken place and is ongoing. ...Michael... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14: 8:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFA937BA3C for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17564; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:07:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdg17562; Thu Aug 3 07:07:31 2000 Message-ID: <01b601bffcc6$459e0010$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Neil Blakey-Milner" Cc: "Steve Fagan" , , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:11:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually I have produced a newbie-level HOWTO on FreeBSD setup as a basic gateway box .... getting heaps of compliments from newbies but I get the impression its seen as far too simplistic and therefore not quite the "right thing" for the official area. Not that I'm concerned, it works for the people for whom it was intended. I'd like to expand on it but getting the necessary info is like pulling teeth !!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:21:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF13C37BC19 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K5x1-0009nA-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:21:19 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:21:19 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Doug Young Cc: Steve Fagan , msilver@sc.rr.com, "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000802232118.A37594@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 <01b601bffcc6$459e0010$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <01b601bffcc6$459e0010$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 07:11:45AM +1000 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 2000-08-03 (07:11), Doug Young wrote: > Actually I have produced a newbie-level HOWTO on FreeBSD setup > as a basic gateway box .... getting heaps of compliments from newbies Can't say I saw a mention of it on the doc@FreeBSD.org mailing list. > but I get the impression its seen as far too simplistic and therefore not > quite the "right thing" for the official area. Not that I'm concerned, it You're making assumptions again. We're desperate for documentation on all levels. I find it hard to believe anyone in the documentation project would reject anything that is getting great reviews from newbies. > works for the people for whom it was intended. I'd like to expand on > it but getting the necessary info is like pulling teeth !!!! If it's not known, it isn't helping anyone. It's in your interest to make it known, and possibly incorporate it into the "official" FDP set of documents. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:32: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C8937BCA2 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MSILVER@scana.com) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id RAA10042; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maildmis.scana.com(161.156.252.68) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma009981; Wed, 2 Aug 00 17:31:04 -0400 Received: from msg11.scana.com [161.156.252.68] by msg11.scana.com [161.156.252.68] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id F85CDFB3688F11D4B3F200A0C98F15C0 for plus 1 more; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:28:42 -0400 Received: by maildmis.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:28:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'Doug Young'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:28:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is this available on the net? ...Michael... > > Actually I have produced a newbie-level HOWTO on FreeBSD setup > as a basic gateway box .... getting heaps of compliments from newbies > but I get the impression its seen as far too simplistic and > therefore not > quite the "right thing" for the official area. Not that I'm > concerned, it > works for the people for whom it was intended. I'd like to expand on > it but getting the necessary info is like pulling teeth !!!! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:36:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CF237B70F for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17588; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:36:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdc17586; Thu Aug 3 07:36:01 2000 Message-ID: <01be01bffcca$40e8b890$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , "'Neil Blakey-Milner'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , "'Rick Hamell'" References: Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:40:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The problem lies in the gap between experienced UNIX admins and > inexperienced UNIX users, like myself (striving to be an admin). Certain > knowledge of UNIX is assumed, not purposely by the doc writers, but the doc > writer already have this knowledge. Many "newbies" simply don't have this > knowledge. This is something many of us have been saying for ages .... its because the people who write docs are typically extremely experienced that they are not the ideal people for the job. This issue is not something peculiar to FreeBSD, but certainly the situation is far worse with open source software than with commercial equivalents. It almost seems an insult to those that document FreeBSD to have > simple step by step instructions on doing very specific mundane tasks, > however this is what many of us require. Ummmm .... I just checked this was the right list, but yes it IS the "newbies" one so discussion relevant to newbies is presumably on the allowable list of topics ... heated or otherwise !!!!! Whats the purpose of documentation anyway ?? If it can't be readily comprehended by those who need it then its totally useless. Whilst many "die-hards" will shudder at the thought, providing a heap of screen dumps in the existing docs would go a long way toward filling in the gaps. The lack of complete info doesn't only concern newbies however .... even those of us who have been around IT for yonks struggle with something unfamiliar if its not documented properly. (To this day I refuse to purchase a VCR because I've yet to meet one that comes with intelligible instructions.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:39:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CD537B70F for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17593; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:39:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdu17591; Thu Aug 3 07:39:14 2000 Message-ID: <01c601bffcca$b3b944c0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:43:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedantic FreeBSD is in process of review & expansion ..... previous version (complete with some notations of things that need work) is at http://www.apana.org.au/FreeBSD/FreeBSD_Tutorial ----- Original Message ----- From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'Doug Young'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:28 AM Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > Is this available on the net? > > ...Michael... > > > > > Actually I have produced a newbie-level HOWTO on FreeBSD setup > > as a basic gateway box .... getting heaps of compliments from newbies > > but I get the impression its seen as far too simplistic and > > therefore not > > quite the "right thing" for the official area. Not that I'm > > concerned, it > > works for the people for whom it was intended. I'd like to expand on > > it but getting the necessary info is like pulling teeth !!!! > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:51:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BD537B601 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:51:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K6Pj-0009sw-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:50:59 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:50:59 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , 'Rick Hamell' , 'Doug Young' Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000802235059.B37594@mithrandr.moria.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from MSILVER@scana.com on Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 04:42:07PM -0400 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 2000-08-02 (16:42), SILVER, MICHAEL A wrote: > the simplest things with out them. You would be challenged to find better > and more up-to-date documentation on any other free software. Thanks for your comments and praise; I'm sure the individual authors would love if you sent them an email if you find one of their sections particularly useful. > The problem lies in the gap between experienced UNIX admins and > inexperienced UNIX users, like myself (striving to be an admin). Certain > knowledge of UNIX is assumed, not purposely by the doc writers, but the doc > writer already have this knowledge. Many "newbies" simply don't have this > knowledge. I agree wholeheartedly, but the "newbies" (including me sometimes) shouldn't hesitate to contact the doc writers if they gloss over something. I'm sure none of them would mind adding a link to where to find introductory information on topics glossed over in their section. > It almost seems an insult to those that document FreeBSD to have > simple step by step instructions on doing very specific mundane tasks, > however this is what many of us require. I can assure you that noone will be insulted by clear, easy-to-understand instructions, even the most hard-core systems administrator. Cryptic things irritate everyone, trust me! The number of times I've seen some of the kernel hackers wishing that certain systems were explained better... (: > I don't know how this would fit into the current documentation > project. This really should be a separate "how to" or example manual. The documentation project is growing quite rapidly, and there are a set of handbooks (the original handbook, the porters handbook, and the to-be-created developers handbook and users handbook) which will cover largish amounts of stuff in "reasonable detail". There are currently two "primers", which cover ppp and the FreeBSD Documentation Project at great depth. There are also a number of articles (some of them suffering from decay), such as the (new and undecayed) dialup-firewall recipe-like article, the committers guide, and the (much decayed) new-users article. They are intended to cover one subject or task in good, easy to use, instructions, but don't quite go as in-depth at the primers. I'm sure there is easily enough place for any documentation pertaining to FreeBSD. > Neil, how can we help with the documentation project? Everyone in the documentation project intends to trawl through the mailing lists, and turn all problems and solutions into a working document. Of course, time moves against us, since going through a week's problems and solutions probably takes a good two weeks ;). The first, and easiest, way to help is simply to notify the project that there is an issue with the documents. It can be as simple as sending mail to doc@FreeBSD.org, with your concerns. If you want to make it much easier for us, try use send-pr (there's a web interface for that too). If you have trouble with either, feel free to ask me. The second way is to write up something when you've had a problem, and found a solution. It may end up going into the FAQ, or into the handbook in an obvious place, if it is small. If it is large, you may find yourself the next darling of the documentation project, and have a full-fledged tutorial going. (: A third way is to join the doc@FreeBSD.org mailing list, and give suggestions where you can. It probably has more messages than here, so it might be a problem for some of you. > How can we build a document that will help new people setup and > configure FreeBSD? I think the Handbook has great content for > newbies, sometimes. Somehow we need to fill in the gaps, before we > can no longer appreciate the needs of the newer users. (if that made > any sense) I think the answer is: "The way we've always done them." FreeBSD is an example of a community-driven project, which, in my opinion, has gone right. It is self-sustaining because enough people who use it, contribute back to it by means of problem reports, patches, development time, and even money sometimes. I'm sure this can easily apply to the documentation project (and, if I may say so, it hasn't done a terrible job so far). If I may pretend to advise - If you don't let anybody know about your problems, and you don't fix them yourself, then you're suffering without reason. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 14:53:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240CA37BD3E for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17607; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:53:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdF17605; Thu Aug 3 07:53:19 2000 Message-ID: <01cc01bffccc$aba92460$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Neil Blakey-Milner" Cc: "Steve Fagan" , , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:57:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can't say I saw a mention of it on the doc@FreeBSD.org mailing list. > The thing was produced primarily to assist members of a non-profit internet group to setup gateway boxes for their permanent dialup modem connections, although many of the FreeBSD newbies have used it for whatever purpose. I haven't made any attempt to cover issues relevant to users outside the intended group (eg workstation setup). Dunno if I posted info anywhere but the newbies list. I did get feedback from some on the docs list complaining about the size of the thing due to "too many pics", but since the number of pics was what drew most if not all of the compliments I see no reason to change from that concept. Its quite slow to load because of the number of pics, & I don't know any way to reduce the size of the thing from the current 13 odd Mb without removing the pics, so its unlikely to ever be acceptable to traditional unix docs people in its present format. I'm working on a pdf format as part of the review so maybe that will prove more acceptable to the "experts" .... can't see me doing anything with latex or the like though. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 15: 6:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C59B37B7BB for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 13K6eR-0009wD-00; Thu, 03 Aug 2000 00:06:11 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:06:11 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Doug Young Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <20000803000611.A38089@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 <01cc01bffccc$aba92460$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <01cc01bffccc$aba92460$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 07:57:33AM +1000 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 2000-08-03 (07:57), Doug Young wrote: > Dunno if I posted info anywhere but the newbies list. I did get > feedback from some on the docs list complaining about the size of the > thing due to "too many pics", but since the number of pics was what > drew most if not all of the compliments You should post it to the docs list. > I see no reason to change from that concept. Its quite slow to load because > of the number of pics, & I don't know any way to reduce the size of the > thing from the current 13 odd Mb without removing the pics, so its unlikely > to ever be acceptable to traditional unix docs people in its present format. You're not dealing with "traditional unix docs people". If you take the step to thinking that the documentation project people are there to provide documentation to any and all comers, you're there. FreeBSD is about providing something for any and all, about tools that are well-defined and which together do anything you want. If you want less cryptic error messages, then send a problem report. It won't be arbitrarily closed because "hard-core unix users don't need nice error messages". > I'm working on a pdf format as part of the review so maybe that will prove > more acceptable to the "experts" .... can't see me doing anything with latex > or the like though. If you submit the HTML, I'll do the rest. It's one of the few things that takes almost no time, and gets results. I might need to change your pictures to "png" format, and use complex SGML stuff, but I'm pretty sure it'll be accepted. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 16: 5:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from utep.el.utwente.nl (utep.el.utwente.nl [130.89.30.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE2937B591 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A.Dergatchev@tn.utwente.nl) Received: from tn.utwente.nl (uttnb55.tn.utwente.nl [130.89.74.55]) by utep.el.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25270 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 01:06:05 +0200 Message-ID: <3988A982.CCDFF478@tn.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 01:06:42 +0200 From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 <01cc01bffccc$aba92460$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Young wrote: > > Can't say I saw a mention of it on the doc@FreeBSD.org mailing list. > > > The thing was produced primarily to assist members of a non-profit internet > group to setup gateway boxes for their permanent dialup modem connections, > although many of the FreeBSD newbies have used it for whatever purpose. Great site, many thanks !!! > [..] from the current 13 odd Mb without removing the pics, It does create real life feeling I agree, but maybe lite version would be useful too for those on slow modems ? Actually all of your pictures are screen shots of 80X25 (?) VGA screen, ASCII symbol and color. I'd just bet the money that it can be compressed to hell less, be day light distribution and curvature of the monitor together with its boundaries given smaller priority in compression. I vagually remeber reading something about already existing compressor being able to do it. I can dig in comp.compression if there is any interest. [...] Andrei To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 17:11:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DD837B9F7 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-223-10.s10.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.223.10] helo=beefstew) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.15 #2) id 13K8c0-0007Vo-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 20:11:48 -0400 Message-ID: <002401bffcdf$7c2f89a0$0adf7ad1@beefstew> From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:12:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Exactly. I was just at some bookstores today - it's amazing the ever increasing documentation on Linux. But nary a FreeBSD book on the shelves. I have went so far as to buy Linux books (eg. by Kofler ) because they cover intro. concepts well. Still, I've been taking the propellorheads word though, that FreeBSD is "THE" OS for setting up one's own domain - that it's "THE" internet OS, I have seen some hacker/cracker pages explictly stating FreeBSD is ( when config. properly ) is a tough nut to crack ie. secure. ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Young To: Steve Fagan ; ; 'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org' Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > I'm totally in favour of regular folks writing HOWTO docs, could never > understand > the logic of giving the job to propellorheads who write stuff that only > others of their ilk can comprehend. For some reason there appears to be a > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Fagan" > To: ; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:19 AM > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd > > > > One site I like. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" > > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM > > Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > > > I couldn't agree more. > > > > > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > > > FreeBSD, > > > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 > steps" > > > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > > > certainly > > > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack a > > > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly .... > to > > > get > > > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this & > > bits > > > of > > > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, > then > > > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down the > > > exact > > > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe > OK > > > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical for > > > businesses > > > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > > > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > > > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you wanted > > to > > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each > with > > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, step > > by > > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness pulled > > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate > package > > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the > > hardest > > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > > denomenator (like me). > > > > > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? If > > > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > > > > > ...Michael... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 17:13:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hera.bingo-ev.de (hera.bingo-ev.de [213.217.10.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA5E37BD5D for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dantler@gmx.net) Received: from horst (92.deck2.i-team.de [213.217.11.92]) by hera.bingo-ev.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA13245 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 02:13:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Dantler@gmx.net Message-ID: <965269239@horst> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 02:20:38 +0200 Subject: Importend Mail To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Reply-To: Dantler@gmx.net Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hallo you all ! that is not a Spam. Anyway a E-Mail from you whas comeing in my Mailbox from where I have your E-Mail address. So i send you back a E-Mail with a very interesst Internet -Address. http://www.LottoTeam.to/english/vn/shorst Take a little look on it and have a little fun. Mfg Horst To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 17:36:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F18237B51B for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-223-10.s10.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.223.10] helo=beefstew) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.15 #2) id 13K901-0002hY-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 20:36:38 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01bffce2$f414de40$0adf7ad1@beefstew> From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <016801bffcbb$68385770$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:37:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Certainly a step in the right direction, although a few too many assumptions > about prior knowledge. Possibly the info one needs is in print someplace, > but the stuff is so horribly fragmented that its a jigsaw puzzle trying to > locate all the pieces & assemble them .... and assuming the particular > pieces of the jigsaw puzzle one needs are actually written in some language > of planet earth. I had to use instructions from five web sites and piece it together when I attempted my first install some months ago plus fill in the blanks from the mail and newsgroups. This has been the pattern for learning how to do most things. In a mission critical situation ( and of course I can only tread water re FreeBSD at this point ) I would say use the brilliantly documented stuff all things being equal. I have found - and I feel "funny" saying this, but, many ( SOME ) brilliant Unix admins. - they are....individualists. Some are hard for me to deal with. Even the ones in official teaching positions sometimes are eccentric. But I unabashedly pick their brains if I can. > As I said in another posting, propellorheads are the LAST > people who should be writing docs ...... if something can't be easily > comprehended by newbies there is no point clogging up bandwidth or murdering > trees. > snip... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 18:40:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A9037B506 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17865; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:40:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdQ17863; Thu Aug 3 11:40:03 2000 Message-ID: <023801bffcec$5874e340$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:44:18 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks Andrei I know its a bit poxy right now but I'm working on some updates that should make it halfway presentable in a week or so. I know FreeBSD has a script that lets one capture stuff printed to screen (anyone know what its called & how to use it ??) however I don't know that the script thingy is practical for a new installation. From the compliments I've received it sure appears that what newbies want is plenty of pretty pics instead words in some unknown language. If there's a practical way to cut the pics back in size or compress them without losing more resolution from the already so-so jpg's it would be a "very good thing". They are far lighter than I started with, but obviously part of the reason why the site is dreadfully slow .... too many pics per page too but ran out of time :( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 9:06 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > Doug Young wrote: > > > > Can't say I saw a mention of it on the doc@FreeBSD.org mailing list. > > > > > The thing was produced primarily to assist members of a non-profit internet > > group to setup gateway boxes for their permanent dialup modem connections, > > although many of the FreeBSD newbies have used it for whatever purpose. > > Great site, many thanks !!! > > > [..] from the current 13 odd Mb without removing the pics, > > It does create real life feeling I agree, but maybe lite version > would be useful too for those on slow modems ? > Actually all of your pictures are screen shots of 80X25 (?) VGA > screen, ASCII symbol and color. I'd just bet the money that it can > be compressed to hell less, be day light distribution and curvature > of the monitor together with its boundaries given smaller priority > in compression. I vagually remeber reading something about already > existing compressor being able to do it. I can dig in comp.compression > if there is any interest. > > > [...] > > Andrei > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 19: 2: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3946337B54C for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17891; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:01:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdO17889; Thu Aug 3 12:01:33 2000 Message-ID: <023e01bffcef$594cc550$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002401bffcdf$7c2f89a0$0adf7ad1@beefstew> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:05:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah for sure ..... I've got a heap of FreeBSD gateway boxes running around the city, ranging from neanderthal Wang 386's to a relatively modern dual P100 and the things just keep on trucking. However the headaches resulting from attempts to make sense of ANY existing documentation when I'm trying to figure out something new are something else again !!!!. I for one am reluctant to setup anything in FreeBSD for a business client unless I've already understood the issue sufficiently well that I have written my own docs. There's no way one can install / configure something unfamiliar & be confident it will work, and no way to guarantee of prompt feedback from the already over-committed list regulars. When one is under pressure to get the thing working like yesterday its usually more expedient to resort to a different solution .... even if its less robust, at least the office girl can be trained to hit the "reset" button. If I had my choice (and money wasn't an issue) I'd probably have all my office clients running Solaris 8 / StarOffice, but the realities are that "everyone knows Win98 / MS Office", its relatively cheap, and hitting "re-set" occasionally doesn't always wreck it :) The fact that its somewhat of an unpedigreed canine is another issue ... it does the job. for How on earth anyone seriously expects "real world" consultants to recommend FreeBSD to their clients is beyond me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > Exactly. I was just at some bookstores today - it's amazing the ever > increasing documentation on Linux. But nary a FreeBSD book on the shelves. I > have went so far as to buy Linux books (eg. by Kofler ) because they cover > intro. concepts well. > > Still, I've been taking the propellorheads word though, that FreeBSD is > "THE" OS for setting up one's own domain - that it's "THE" internet OS, I > have seen some hacker/cracker pages explictly stating FreeBSD is ( when > config. properly ) is a tough nut to crack ie. secure. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Young > To: Steve Fagan ; ; > 'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org' > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > I'm totally in favour of regular folks writing HOWTO docs, could never > > understand > > the logic of giving the job to propellorheads who write stuff that only > > others of their ilk can comprehend. For some reason there appears to be a > > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Fagan" > > To: ; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > > > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:19 AM > > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > > > Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd > > > > > > One site I like. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" > > > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM > > > Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't agree more. > > > > > > > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > > > > FreeBSD, > > > > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 > > steps" > > > > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > > > > certainly > > > > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack > a > > > > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly > .... > > to > > > > get > > > > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this > & > > > bits > > > > of > > > > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, > > then > > > > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down > the > > > > exact > > > > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe > > OK > > > > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical > for > > > > businesses > > > > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > > > > > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > > > > > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you > wanted > > > to > > > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each > > with > > > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, > step > > > by > > > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness > pulled > > > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate > > package > > > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the > > > hardest > > > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > > > denomenator (like me). > > > > > > > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? > If > > > > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > > > > > > > ...Michael... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 19:19:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED2337B540 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17905; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:19:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdQ17903; Thu Aug 3 12:19:38 2000 Message-ID: <025001bffcf1$e03e4b40$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <016801bffcbb$68385770$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002b01bffce2$f414de40$0adf7ad1@beefstew> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:23:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I had to use instructions from five web sites and piece it together when I > attempted my first install some months ago plus fill in the blanks from the > mail and newsgroups. Seems thats the way things are done in open source circles .... maybe if enough of us newbie types made a lot more noise someone might listen. Hey you've just given me an idea .... what say we form a "FreeBSD Newbie Union" to press the "powers that be" for better working conditions ?? This has been the pattern for learning how to do most > things. In a mission critical situation ( and of course I can only tread > water re FreeBSD at this point ) I would say use the brilliantly documented > stuff all things being equal. I come across a heap of associates in general business consulting circles who are, like me, quite impressed with the way FreeBSD systems just running with nary an illegal act / fatal exception / GPF / BSOD / etc, but as soon as some unfamiliar application is required the typical difficulty in figuring it out plus the time pressures involved in most businesses tends to force a move to some other O/S, usually a product of our comrades from Redmond. Thankfully I've got a fairly loyal & open-minded mob of clients who manage to muddle by for whatever time it takes me to sort some solution out in FreeBSD, but not everyone has this luxury. > > I have found - and I feel "funny" saying this, but, many ( SOME ) brilliant > Unix admins. - they are....individualists. Some are hard for me to deal > with. Even the ones in official teaching positions sometimes are eccentric. > But I unabashedly pick their brains if I can. I think eccentricity is part of geekship, and even more so in academia. We can probably live with that as long as the aforesaid eccentric ones refrain from writing stuff in whatever weird language they learned on their home planet and stuck to "proper" english (like what regular folk use). Better still, the "FreeBSD Newbies Union" should insist that ALL documentation be prepared by one of their members. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 19:29:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from utep.el.utwente.nl (utep.el.utwente.nl [130.89.30.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1248737B556 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A.Dergatchev@tn.utwente.nl) Received: from tn.utwente.nl (uttnb55.tn.utwente.nl [130.89.74.55]) by utep.el.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26632 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 04:29:41 +0200 Message-ID: <3988D936.13CEF26E@tn.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:30:14 +0200 From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002401bffcdf$7c2f89a0$0adf7ad1@beefstew> <023e01bffcef$594cc550$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Q. How much time average University physics professor will need to spent to find if a given voltage is 220 V or 110 V if left without voltmeter ? A. Several hours for most of them. "Something new" is indeed a crucial issue here imho. When one is confronted with unknown, there is no choice but to investigate, and without experience of how to investigate things fast in this particular field it will take sizeable chunk of the day. To understand something "sufficiently well" one got to have _a lot_ of time to learn, because one have to *know* beforehand. However, there are advantageous points - nowadays Internet is everywhere in academia, Linux/*BSD are popular and I know a lot of student are tinkering with the code just for fun of it. So, probably when these guys are going out, one in business and another in support, it does make sense for them to talk like that :-) - if both engineer of the client and consultant know how to deal with problems, than it can work out eventually :-) Rest of us who are not lucky enough to have such knowledge got to bother about having the docs ;-) Andrei > Yeah for sure ..... I've got a heap of FreeBSD gateway boxes running around > the city, ranging from neanderthal Wang 386's to a relatively modern dual > P100 > and the things just keep on trucking. However the headaches resulting from > attempts to > make sense of ANY existing documentation when I'm trying to figure out > something new are something else again !!!!. I for one am reluctant to setup > anything in FreeBSD for a business client unless I've already understood the > issue sufficiently well that I have written my own docs. There's no way one > can install / configure something unfamiliar & be confident it will work, > and no way to guarantee of prompt feedback from the already over-committed > list regulars. When one is under pressure to get the thing working like > yesterday its usually more expedient to resort to a different solution .... > even if its less robust, at least the office girl can be trained to hit the > "reset" button. If I had my choice (and money wasn't an issue) I'd probably > have all my office clients running Solaris 8 / StarOffice, but the realities > are that "everyone knows Win98 / MS Office", its relatively cheap, and > hitting "re-set" occasionally doesn't always wreck it :) The fact that its > somewhat of an unpedigreed canine is another issue ... it does the job. > > for How on earth anyone seriously expects "real world" consultants to > recommend FreeBSD to their clients is beyond me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 19:41:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D9237B5CC for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 209-122-223-10.s10.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.223.10] helo=beefstew) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.15 #2) id 13KAws-0007Ua-00; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:41:30 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01bffcf4$659d9870$0adf7ad1@beefstew> From: "leegold" To: "Doug Young" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <016801bffcbb$68385770$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002b01bffce2$f414de40$0adf7ad1@beefstew> <025001bffcf1$e03e4b40$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:41:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Are you sure you want a "Union". How about a consortium? What's a consortium? What shape should the tables be? I say semi-circular. I also want to be the treasurer - there's this nice ABIT dual celeron mobo I've been hankering for - we need this for research. I also want a wet bar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Young To: leegold Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 10:23 PM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > I had to use instructions from five web sites and piece it together when I > > attempted my first install some months ago plus fill in the blanks from > the > > mail and newsgroups. > > Seems thats the way things are done in open source circles .... maybe if > enough > of us newbie types made a lot more noise someone might listen. Hey you've > just > given me an idea .... what say we form a "FreeBSD Newbie Union" to press the > "powers that be" for better working conditions ?? > > This has been the pattern for learning how to do most > > things. In a mission critical situation ( and of course I can only tread > > water re FreeBSD at this point ) I would say use the brilliantly > documented > > stuff all things being equal. > > I come across a heap of associates in general business consulting circles > who are, like me, quite impressed with the way FreeBSD systems just running > with nary an illegal act / fatal exception / GPF / BSOD / etc, but as soon > as some unfamiliar application is required the typical difficulty in > figuring it out plus the time pressures involved in most businesses tends to > force a move to some other O/S, usually a product of our comrades from > Redmond. Thankfully I've got a fairly loyal & open-minded mob of clients who > manage to muddle by for whatever time it takes me to sort some solution out > in FreeBSD, but not everyone has this luxury. > > > > I have found - and I feel "funny" saying this, but, many ( SOME ) > brilliant > > Unix admins. - they are....individualists. Some are hard for me to deal > > with. Even the ones in official teaching positions sometimes are > eccentric. > > But I unabashedly pick their brains if I can. > > I think eccentricity is part of geekship, and even more so in academia. We > can probably live with that as long as the aforesaid eccentric ones refrain > from writing stuff in whatever weird language they learned on their home > planet and stuck to "proper" english (like what regular folk use). Better > still, the "FreeBSD Newbies Union" should insist that ALL documentation be > prepared by one of their members. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 2 20:15:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492E237B5B7 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17971; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:15:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdg17966; Thu Aug 3 13:15:01 2000 Message-ID: <027801bffcf9$9c8bd810$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "leegold" Cc: References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <016801bffcbb$68385770$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002b01bffce2$f414de40$0adf7ad1@beefstew> <025001bffcf1$e03e4b40$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <001b01bffcf4 Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:19:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org /me just want um big stick to beat propellorheads who write stuff in martian into submission .... Newbies Union sounded like a good way to achieve it :) tables definitely gotta be octagonal so the square knights of the round table won't fit !!!!! Only position I want is the "union heavy" because they get to collect all the money and leave town with it, so dunno how poor treasurer gets enough to buy fancy mobo's then. Wet bar sounds good though, as long as there's plenty Glenfiddich > Are you sure you want a "Union". How about a consortium? What's a > consortium? What shape should the tables be? I say semi-circular. I also > want to be the treasurer - there's this nice ABIT dual celeron mobo I've > been hankering for - we need this for research. I also want a wet bar. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Young > To: leegold > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 10:23 PM > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > I had to use instructions from five web sites and piece it together when > I > > > attempted my first install some months ago plus fill in the blanks from > > the > > > mail and newsgroups. > > > > Seems thats the way things are done in open source circles .... maybe if > > enough > > of us newbie types made a lot more noise someone might listen. Hey you've > > just > > given me an idea .... what say we form a "FreeBSD Newbie Union" to press > the > > "powers that be" for better working conditions ?? > > > > This has been the pattern for learning how to do most > > > things. In a mission critical situation ( and of course I can only tread > > > water re FreeBSD at this point ) I would say use the brilliantly > > documented > > > stuff all things being equal. > > > > I come across a heap of associates in general business consulting circles > > who are, like me, quite impressed with the way FreeBSD systems just > running > > with nary an illegal act / fatal exception / GPF / BSOD / etc, but as soon > > as some unfamiliar application is required the typical difficulty in > > figuring it out plus the time pressures involved in most businesses tends > to > > force a move to some other O/S, usually a product of our comrades from > > Redmond. Thankfully I've got a fairly loyal & open-minded mob of clients > who > > manage to muddle by for whatever time it takes me to sort some solution > out > > in FreeBSD, but not everyone has this luxury. > > > > > > I have found - and I feel "funny" saying this, but, many ( SOME ) > > brilliant > > > Unix admins. - they are....individualists. Some are hard for me to deal > > > with. Even the ones in official teaching positions sometimes are > > eccentric. > > > But I unabashedly pick their brains if I can. > > > > I think eccentricity is part of geekship, and even more so in academia. We > > can probably live with that as long as the aforesaid eccentric ones > refrain > > from writing stuff in whatever weird language they learned on their home > > planet and stuck to "proper" english (like what regular folk use). Better > > still, the "FreeBSD Newbies Union" should insist that ALL documentation be > > prepared by one of their members. > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 3 0:56:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from utep.el.utwente.nl (utep.el.utwente.nl [130.89.30.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DE037B7D6 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A.Dergatchev@tn.utwente.nl) Received: from tn.utwente.nl (uttnb55.tn.utwente.nl [130.89.74.55]) by utep.el.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30180 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:57:34 +0200 Message-ID: <3989260C.763D439D@tn.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:58:04 +0200 From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 <023801bffcec$5874e340$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV. At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug. To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5 times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ? Doug Young wrote: > Thanks Andrei > > I know its a bit poxy right now common it's fine. > but I'm working on some updates that should > make it halfway presentable in a week or so. I know FreeBSD has a script > that lets one capture stuff printed to screen (anyone know what its called & > how to use it ??) however I don't know that the script thingy is practical > for > a new installation. [...] Existing installation is required to use X-based XV . For "screen" utility I'm not sure - can't test it at the moment. Andrei http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=522229779&CONTEXT=965287304.208404502&hitnum=96 "You can also run sysinstall in an xterm and use xv to grab that window. That is what I did when I wrote http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ which is a little stale. I won't have time to get to updating it till 1st quarter 2000, since I am involved with a real book contract." http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=544558149&CONTEXT=965287304.208404502&hitnum=81 "Also, if you run "screen" first, you can press CTRL-A, H (i believe, don't quote me). And it'll write a hard copy of the screen to a file. " To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 3 1:10:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0570337B566 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 01:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18316; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:09:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "ROADRUNNER" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdV18314; Thu Aug 3 18:09:47 2000 Message-ID: <044c01bffd22$cac49720$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> From: "Doug Young" To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" , "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" References: <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:13:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm positive there's a command line screen capture tool in FreeBSD .... probably even used it a while back. Can't imagine how to use it from a new install though ..... maybe someone can figure out a way to capture on a different machine somehow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found > that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV. > > At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which > were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug. > To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5 > times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful > for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ? > > Doug Young wrote: > > > Thanks Andrei > > > > I know its a bit poxy right now > > common it's fine. > > > but I'm working on some updates that should > > make it halfway presentable in a week or so. I know FreeBSD has a script > > that lets one capture stuff printed to screen (anyone know what its called & > > how to use it ??) however I don't know that the script thingy is practical > > for > > a new installation. > > [...] > > Existing installation is required to use X-based XV . For "screen" utility I'm > not sure - can't test it at the moment. > > Andrei > > http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=522229779&CONTEXT=965287304.2084 04502&hitnum=96 > > "You can also run sysinstall in an xterm and use xv to grab that window. That is > what I did when I wrote http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ which is a > little stale. I won't have time to get to updating it till 1st quarter 2000, > since I am involved with a real book contract." > > http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=544558149&CONTEXT=965287304.2084 04502&hitnum=81 > > "Also, if you run "screen" first, you can press CTRL-A, H (i believe, don't > quote me). And it'll write a hard copy of the screen to a file. " > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 3 1:19:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from trill.hh.se (trill.hh.se [194.47.5.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E36237B566 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 01:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from u98jobj@stud.hh.se) Received: from gs177.gsten.hh.se (chip@gs177.gsten.hh.se [194.47.16.177]) by trill.hh.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19648; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:19:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3989260C.763D439D@tn.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:20:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Joel Bjork To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 03-Aug-00 Andrei A. Dergatchev wrote: > About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found > that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV. > > At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which > were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug. > To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5 > times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful > for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ? > The best way in my mind would be to use the 
 tag in HTML 
http://www.htmlhelp.org/reference/html40/block/pre.html .
Combining it with CSS or, if you want to go the old ugly way a table with a
set bgcolor would make it look exactly like the real thing.

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Joel Bjork 
Date: 03-Aug-00
Time: 10:20:22
----------------------------------


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  2:21: 7 2000
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From: "Num_LOC" 
To: 
Subject: Working with a soundblaster Live! Value
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 05:24:53 -0400
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	Ok I will start by saying that I have never compilied a BSD kernel, w/ that
said,
I have this problem. I am trying to get my SBLive! to work w/ FreeBSD I
added the line: "device	pcm0" in my config file. I thought that this is all
I had to do, so I re-compiled the kernel, and viola! the sound still did not
work. The pc booted fine, and everything else worked, but it still does not
see my sound card. Is their anything That I am missing, oh yea. I have
FreeBSD 4.0 installed, the one that just came out in march.

thanx for the help
-Num_LOC



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:11:37 2000
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Message-ID: <049201bffd33$b4b25a10$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Joel Bjork" ,
	"Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
References: 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:15:04 +1000
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I'd swear there is a command line screen capture tool in FreeBSD. GUI stuff
doesn't work real good when your FreeBSD box doesn't have X :) That tricky
html stuff is beyond my ability ...... I just type up really basic stuff in
either ee or notepad and at least it works in ALL browsers



----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Bjork" 
To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view


>
> On 03-Aug-00 Andrei A. Dergatchev wrote:
> > About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found
> > that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV.
> >
> > At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which
> > were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug.
> > To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5
> > times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful
> > for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ?
> >
> The best way in my mind would be to use the 
 tag in HTML
> http://www.htmlhelp.org/reference/html40/block/pre.html .
> Combining it with CSS or, if you want to go the old ugly way a table with
a
> set bgcolor would make it look exactly like the real thing.
>
> ----------------------------------
> E-Mail: Joel Bjork 
> Date: 03-Aug-00
> Time: 10:20:22
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:21: 9 2000
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Doug Young wrote:

> I'd swear there is a command line screen capture tool in FreeBSD.

i'd expect should be something indeed.

> GUI stuff
> doesn't work real good when your FreeBSD box doesn't have X :)

that can be fixed :-) if we want to make a nice tutorial once for a long time.

> That tricky
> html stuff is beyond my ability ......

you see there are html hackers among us :-)

> I just type up really basic stuff in
> either ee or notepad and at least it works in ALL browsers

i know a few guys who are saying that for them it is easier
to type in asm then in basic. one just got to do it for some years
to get used to :-) html just another one from earth planet.



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:28:58 2000
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From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" ,
	"'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" 
References:  <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:32:30 +1000
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There's a message in the mailing list archives from Giorgos Keramidas about
the "script" command which is presumably what I was thinking about.
"script"starts recording whatever is on screen, & "exit" stops the thing.
Apparently the output is saved as a file "typescript" in the /current
directory.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" 
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view


> About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found
> that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV.
>
> At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which
> were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug.
> To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5
> times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful
> for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ?
>
> Doug Young wrote:
>
> > Thanks Andrei
> >
> > I know its a bit poxy right now
>
> common it's fine.
>
> > but I'm working on some updates that should
> > make it halfway presentable in a week or so. I know FreeBSD has a script
> > that lets one capture stuff printed to screen (anyone know what its
called &
> > how to use it ??) however I don't know that the script thingy is
practical
> > for
> > a new installation.
>
> [...]
>
> Existing installation is required to use X-based XV . For "screen" utility
I'm
> not sure - can't test it at the moment.
>
> Andrei
>
>
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=522229779&CONTEXT=965287304.2084
04502&hitnum=96
>
> "You can also run sysinstall in an xterm and use xv to grab that window.
That is
> what I did when I wrote http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/  which is a
>  little stale.  I won't have time to get to updating it till 1st quarter
2000,
> since I am involved with a real book contract."
>
>
http://x62.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=544558149&CONTEXT=965287304.2084
04502&hitnum=81
>
> "Also, if you run "screen" first, you can press CTRL-A, H (i believe,
don't
> quote me).  And it'll write a hard copy of the screen to a file. "
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:37:54 2000
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Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
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ok, thanks, my freebsd box is down currently so i can't test right now.

I believe I saw this message but I presumed he was talking
about user commands being issued and not about screen
bitmap.

Doug Young wrote:

> There's a message in the mailing list archives from Giorgos Keramidas about
> the "script" command which is presumably what I was thinking about.
> "script"starts recording whatever is on screen, & "exit" stops the thing.
> Apparently the output is saved as a file "typescript" in the /current
> directory.



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:44: 2 2000
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From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" ,
	"freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
References:  <049201bffd33$b4b25a10$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <398947D9.8C7467BC@tn.utwente.nl>
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:47:34 +1000
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>i'd expect should be something indeed.

Its called "script" :) ...... who would have guessed !!!!!!!!

Back on Thursday 19th 1999 Alfred Perlstein wrote something about installing
via serial cable & attaching a serial cable to a machine running a screen
capture machine. That sounds OK if I could figure out what he meant.
Installing via serial cable is one thing, but capturing installation screens
via the same cable at same time !!! Anyone got ideas on how this could be
setup ??
>
> > GUI stuff
> > doesn't work real good when your FreeBSD box doesn't have X :)
>
> that can be fixed :-) if we want to make a nice tutorial once for a long
time.

I don't like KDE or Gnome ...... too many bad memories of the lunatic fringe
from my linux days :(

>
> > That tricky
> > html stuff is beyond my ability ......
>
> you see there are html hackers among us :-)

Is that tricky stuff necessary ?? .... seems to me all it achieves is
crashing browsers
>
> > I just type up really basic stuff in
> > either ee or notepad and at least it works in ALL browsers
>
> i know a few guys who are saying that for them it is easier
> to type in asm then in basic. one just got to do it for some years
> to get used to :-) html just another one from earth planet.
>
>
some years = about 456 :)




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  3:52:43 2000
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Message-ID: <04b301bffd39$77b55940$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" 
References:  <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:56:21 +1000
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> ok, thanks, my freebsd box is down currently so i can't test right now.

Oh shock !!! Oh horror !!!! ......... and I thought FreeBSD boxes were like
Rollers
and NEVER broke down.  :)

>
> I believe I saw this message but I presumed he was talking
> about user commands being issued and not about screen
> bitmap.

As I recall it captures the text in a console .... that means its a much
smaller file
than a BMP / JPG / whatever.  Probably OK for the early "white text on black
screen" screens if there's a way to run "script". I guess it would need to
be done on a different machine somehow since the install one doesn't have an
O/S at that stage. If I could comprehend what Alfred Perlstein was on about
with installing via serial cable it might be possible.




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  4: 3:47 2000
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From: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
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Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
References:  <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222 <04b301bffd39$77b55940$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
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Doug Young wrote:

> > ok, thanks, my freebsd box is down currently so i can't test right now.
>
> Oh shock !!! Oh horror !!!! ......... and I thought FreeBSD boxes were like
> Rollers
> and NEVER broke down.  :)

FreeBSD is fine. Some 1 year old WD hdds are not, as
it appears.
Oh well, you maybe right - we need a better testing on
installation, so that when FreeBSD installs it tests all
HW and runs only if it gives a life warrantly :-)

> >
> > I believe I saw this message but I presumed he was talking
> > about user commands being issued and not about screen
> > bitmap.
>
> As I recall it captures the text in a console .... that means its a much
> smaller file
> than a BMP / JPG / whatever.  Probably OK for the early "white text on black
> screen" screens if there's a way to run "script". I guess it would need to
> be done on a different machine somehow since the install one doesn't have an
> O/S at that stage. If I could comprehend what Alfred Perlstein was on about
> with installing via serial cable it might be possible.

I couldn't get why you just insist on not having the OS installed
when taking screenshots ? Shouldn't make any difference
for taking pictures, as I understood from the posting I gave
reference to.

Andrei



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  4:17:53 2000
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 13:19:01 +0200 (CEST)
From: Joel Bjork 
To: Doug Young 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" ,
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On 03-Aug-00 Doug Young wrote:
> I'd swear there is a command line screen capture tool in FreeBSD. GUI stuff
> doesn't work real good when your FreeBSD box doesn't have X :) That tricky
> html stuff is beyond my ability ...... I just type up really basic stuff in
> either ee or notepad and at least it works in ALL browsers
> 
> 

Aren't you forgetting those using Lynx?


 is probably the easiest of all tags, one of its purposes is to display
code so the text looks exactly as written in the HTML document, whitespace
and linebreaks are preserved. I whipped up a small page showing you how it
works, this page works well in both IE and NS as well as lynx.

 http://www.hh.se/stud/u98jobj/examples/pre.html



----------------------------------
E-Mail: Joel Bjork 
Date: 03-Aug-00
Time: 13:18:47
----------------------------------


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  6: 8:22 2000
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:26:49 +1000
From: Sue Blake 
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Put up or sh... [was: new books, ...]
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Look out, Aunty Sue's back :-)

On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 07:40:15AM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> 
> > The problem lies in the gap between experienced UNIX admins and
> > inexperienced UNIX users, like myself (striving to be an admin). 
> > Certain knowledge of UNIX is assumed, not purposely by the doc
> > writers, but the doc writer already have this knowledge.  Many
> > "newbies" simply don't have this knowledge.

Exactly. Look at my ancient newbies page on the FreeBSD web site.
(There's a link to it on the main page, but of course you know that.)
It groups the information into three categories: FreeBSD, UNIX, X.
FreeBSD isn't directly responsible for helping with general UNIX or X
skills, although they are necessary prerequisites to working with
FreeBSD. Other places probably document them better or more thoroughly,
which is why the newbies page did include links to other sources for
that information, and FreeBSD sources for information specific to
FreeBSD. Of course there are a few writings about general UNIX skills
and X from a FreeBSD perspective, too.

Now why do you think the newbies page is so ancient and sparse? Many
reasons, but the two main ones are my own apathy, and the lack of
feedback and suggestions I received. You people are supposed to tell
me, either personally or here on the list, what you like or don't like
about it and what you would like to see added. The page tells you so.
In all the time it's been there I've heard hardly a peep from newbies.
Does anyone ever look at it, apart from the three or four people who
wrote to me ages ago? Because if not, we shouldn't have it at all.

Next on the agenda was to prepare and keep up to date a page listing
all FreeBSD-related documentation particularly suitable for newbies, in
many cases written by newbies or near newbies. After some discussion
here many months ago we agreed that most of what people wanted was
around somewhere, it was just too hard to find. I jumped through many
hoops to get web space for such a page, the permission required to be
able to go in and update it very frequently, and official blessing for
such a page existing on the FreeBSD web server. I asked for
suggestions, heard two pins drop, then silence.

So guys, here's a challenge. Write to me personally with URLs of
FreeBSD newbie-oriented sites and web pages etc that you think are useful.
Write again when you think of some more. I'll review them if necessary
(we don't want very incomplete or misleading sites to put people off)
and put up a web page on the FreeBSD.org server where everyone can find
it, and update it as new info comes in... IF you guys do your bit. You
don't have to write the damn stuff (but don't let me stop you!), you
just have to keep me updated.

Deal?

> This is something many of us have been saying for ages .... its because the
> people who write docs are typically extremely experienced that they are not
> the ideal people for the job. This issue is not something peculiar to
> FreeBSD, but certainly the situation is far worse with open source software
> than with commercial equivalents.
> 
> > It almost seems an insult to those that document FreeBSD to have
> > simple step by step instructions on doing very specific mundane tasks,
> > however this is what many of us require.
> 
> Ummmm ....  I just checked this was the right list, but yes it IS the
> "newbies" one so discussion relevant to newbies is presumably on the
> allowable list of topics ... heated or otherwise !!!!!

Absolutely! Try not to get too heated yourself, but be aware that many
other newbies are not used to expressing themselves with restraint in
email. Better to get it out in a semi-closed environment like this list,
than to sweat over it or blurt it out where people are less forgiving.
You can all help the emotional writers to relax a bit by giving them moral
support in a more standard writing style, and if ever you get carried
away yourself, someone will be here listening to you too.

When I started this list, way back when, one of the main things it
hoped to achieve was more and better documentation for newbies, either
written by newbies or enhanced by feedback from newbies. Some have
risen to the task, joined the -doc list and made some good
contributions in one way or another. I don't think the others show
laziness, I think it's inhibition and lack of familiarity with the way
things get done in an anarchy. As a newcomer you tend to "see" rules
and bosses everywhere, not realising most of them are unofficial
displays of ego. It's easy to be scared off by someone who sounds very
competent and much more knowledgeable than yourself. (See, you're
hanging on to my every word right now, aren't you :-) Here you get to
discuss with others as equals, without the heavies intruding. Hopefully
that gives some of you the confidence to wander off into the more
standard work rooms sooner or later.

If you are very new, about now you'll be getting used to the idea that
"they" don't have to write docs for you, because there is no "they".
Everyone who can write something and has the time to do so, does. They
write what they feel like, when they feel like writing, because they
feel like it. If and only if people benefit from the documents AND tell
them so, they'll likely keep on writing.

In most cases the writing is sufficiently useful and acurate that it is
snapped up by the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Some people prefer not
to give their writings back to the project and set up their own
separate site somewhere, and that's OK too. At least they're writing.
Many newbies who cannot write have contributed to -doc by reviewing new
documents to offer a newbie's perspective. Do a good reliable job at
this and high tech document authors will be queueing for a space in
your busy schedule, and throwing more docs your way than you'd ever
hoped to see.

Other newbies have written a simple thank-you note to the writer of a
document, saying why they liked it and what was helpful about it.
Because of those tiny little pieces of feedback, some doc writers who
had drifted off have come back to write more. You see, nobody had ever
bothered to thank them before so they thought their work wasn't useful,
or that newbie-oriented works were never read by anybody. It is
generally agreed that the best praise a document can get is heartfelt
praise from a newbie!

Also, don't fall into the trap of the "if you build it they will come"
fallacy. We've had newbies get all fired up, go off and learn PHP and
Java and assembler (OK, I exaggerate a teensy bit) and put together a
technological marvel to "solve" the shortage of newbie docs. They slog
their guts out and omit the one thing that was missing all along: the
DOCUMENTS, the PLAIN OLD WORDS.

Like Neil said, it doesn't matter what format they're in. Ordinary
ASCII text is very nice, thank you. What we need is the words to
explain stuff, and the signposts that point people to where the words
can be found. It's a good idea to discuss what you're writing so that
two people don't work on the same thing without knowing, and that's
where the -doc list is important. But no matter, if you would like to
have a go, start now. At the prompt type 'ee' or 'pico' or 'vi' and
hey, you're a documenter!



-- 

Regards,
        -*Sue*-
 
 


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  6:34: 3 2000
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Message-ID: <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Joel Bjork" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" ,
	"Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
References: 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:37:34 +1000
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> On 03-Aug-00 Doug Young wrote:
> > I'd swear there is a command line screen capture tool in FreeBSD. GUI
stuff
> > doesn't work real good when your FreeBSD box doesn't have X :) That
tricky
> > html stuff is beyond my ability ...... I just type up really basic stuff
in
> > either ee or notepad and at least it works in ALL browsers
> > >
> Aren't you forgetting those using Lynx?

Now thats another issue again ..... does 
 stuff look OK in Lynx ??
I dunno if Lynx is that relevant to manuals with heaps of pics though ....
unless the existing stuff can be readily converted to some sort of text.
I won't be writing ANY docs that don't have heaps of screen shots,  so
if that  results in something unusable to Lynx users then so be it .
Probably any Lynx user would be beyond using the extremely simplistic
newbie level stuff I do anyway.
>
> 
 is probably the easiest of all tags, one of its purposes is to
display
> code so the text looks exactly as written in the HTML document, whitespace
> and linebreaks are preserved. I whipped up a small page showing you how it
> works, this page works well in both IE and NS as well as lynx.
>
>  http://www.hh.se/stud/u98jobj/examples/pre.html
>

OK so far ....I'll have a poke around the htmlhelp site when I have a bit of
time & see if I can figure that stuff out




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  8:28:57 2000
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To: Sue Blake 
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Message-Id: <85256930.0054E8D5.00@Deimos.smed.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:29:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Put up or sh... [was: new books, ...]
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Sue,

    When I first saw your response, I almost deleted it, thinking it was
your "Newbies First Aid Kit" automail that get's sent out from time to
time.  It's nice to know you're a real person.  8^)  Regarding your
informative response, speaking for myself, I've always wanted to become
more involved with the BSD community and to be able to contribute to the
documentation effort but the one thing that always holds me back is my
confidence level.  I've been using FreeBSD for less than a year and even
though I've come a long way, still feel my knowledge/experience level isn't
at the point where my input would be beneficial to the rest of the
community.  After reading your narrative and the previous thread, my
outlook has changed in the respect that it's quite evident that there is
indeed a real need for some intelligible and coherent documentation for
users at all levels.  I will do my best to contribute what I can.
Hopefully, what I contribute will be useable.

Regards

Joe



|--------+----------------------->
|        |          Sue Blake    |
|        |                |
|        |                       |
|        |          08/03/00     |
|        |          07:26 AM     |
|        |                       |
|--------+----------------------->
  >---------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                         |
  |       To:     freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG               |
  |       cc:     (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS)                     |
  |       Subject:     Put up or sh... [was: new books, ...]|
  >---------------------------------------------------------|





Look out, Aunty Sue's back :-)

On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 07:40:15AM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
>
> > The problem lies in the gap between experienced UNIX admins and
> > inexperienced UNIX users, like myself (striving to be an admin).
> > Certain knowledge of UNIX is assumed, not purposely by the doc
> > writers, but the doc writer already have this knowledge.  Many
> > "newbies" simply don't have this knowledge.

Exactly. Look at my ancient newbies page on the FreeBSD web site.
(There's a link to it on the main page, but of course you know that.)
It groups the information into three categories: FreeBSD, UNIX, X.
FreeBSD isn't directly responsible for helping with general UNIX or X
skills, although they are necessary prerequisites to working with
FreeBSD. Other places probably document them better or more thoroughly,
which is why the newbies page did include links to other sources for
that information, and FreeBSD sources for information specific to
FreeBSD. Of course there are a few writings about general UNIX skills
and X from a FreeBSD perspective, too.

Now why do you think the newbies page is so ancient and sparse? Many
reasons, but the two main ones are my own apathy, and the lack of
feedback and suggestions I received. You people are supposed to tell
me, either personally or here on the list, what you like or don't like
about it and what you would like to see added. The page tells you so.
In all the time it's been there I've heard hardly a peep from newbies.
Does anyone ever look at it, apart from the three or four people who
wrote to me ages ago? Because if not, we shouldn't have it at all.

Next on the agenda was to prepare and keep up to date a page listing
all FreeBSD-related documentation particularly suitable for newbies, in
many cases written by newbies or near newbies. After some discussion
here many months ago we agreed that most of what people wanted was
around somewhere, it was just too hard to find. I jumped through many
hoops to get web space for such a page, the permission required to be
able to go in and update it very frequently, and official blessing for
such a page existing on the FreeBSD web server. I asked for
suggestions, heard two pins drop, then silence.

So guys, here's a challenge. Write to me personally with URLs of
FreeBSD newbie-oriented sites and web pages etc that you think are useful.
Write again when you think of some more. I'll review them if necessary
(we don't want very incomplete or misleading sites to put people off)
and put up a web page on the FreeBSD.org server where everyone can find
it, and update it as new info comes in... IF you guys do your bit. You
don't have to write the damn stuff (but don't let me stop you!), you
just have to keep me updated.

Deal?

> This is something many of us have been saying for ages .... its because
the
> people who write docs are typically extremely experienced that they are
not
> the ideal people for the job. This issue is not something peculiar to
> FreeBSD, but certainly the situation is far worse with open source
software
> than with commercial equivalents.
>
> > It almost seems an insult to those that document FreeBSD to have
> > simple step by step instructions on doing very specific mundane tasks,
> > however this is what many of us require.
>
> Ummmm ....  I just checked this was the right list, but yes it IS the
> "newbies" one so discussion relevant to newbies is presumably on the
> allowable list of topics ... heated or otherwise !!!!!

Absolutely! Try not to get too heated yourself, but be aware that many
other newbies are not used to expressing themselves with restraint in
email. Better to get it out in a semi-closed environment like this list,
than to sweat over it or blurt it out where people are less forgiving.
You can all help the emotional writers to relax a bit by giving them moral
support in a more standard writing style, and if ever you get carried
away yourself, someone will be here listening to you too.

When I started this list, way back when, one of the main things it
hoped to achieve was more and better documentation for newbies, either
written by newbies or enhanced by feedback from newbies. Some have
risen to the task, joined the -doc list and made some good
contributions in one way or another. I don't think the others show
laziness, I think it's inhibition and lack of familiarity with the way
things get done in an anarchy. As a newcomer you tend to "see" rules
and bosses everywhere, not realising most of them are unofficial
displays of ego. It's easy to be scared off by someone who sounds very
competent and much more knowledgeable than yourself. (See, you're
hanging on to my every word right now, aren't you :-) Here you get to
discuss with others as equals, without the heavies intruding. Hopefully
that gives some of you the confidence to wander off into the more
standard work rooms sooner or later.

If you are very new, about now you'll be getting used to the idea that
"they" don't have to write docs for you, because there is no "they".
Everyone who can write something and has the time to do so, does. They
write what they feel like, when they feel like writing, because they
feel like it. If and only if people benefit from the documents AND tell
them so, they'll likely keep on writing.

In most cases the writing is sufficiently useful and acurate that it is
snapped up by the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Some people prefer not
to give their writings back to the project and set up their own
separate site somewhere, and that's OK too. At least they're writing.
Many newbies who cannot write have contributed to -doc by reviewing new
documents to offer a newbie's perspective. Do a good reliable job at
this and high tech document authors will be queueing for a space in
your busy schedule, and throwing more docs your way than you'd ever
hoped to see.

Other newbies have written a simple thank-you note to the writer of a
document, saying why they liked it and what was helpful about it.
Because of those tiny little pieces of feedback, some doc writers who
had drifted off have come back to write more. You see, nobody had ever
bothered to thank them before so they thought their work wasn't useful,
or that newbie-oriented works were never read by anybody. It is
generally agreed that the best praise a document can get is heartfelt
praise from a newbie!

Also, don't fall into the trap of the "if you build it they will come"
fallacy. We've had newbies get all fired up, go off and learn PHP and
Java and assembler (OK, I exaggerate a teensy bit) and put together a
technological marvel to "solve" the shortage of newbie docs. They slog
their guts out and omit the one thing that was missing all along: the
DOCUMENTS, the PLAIN OLD WORDS.

Like Neil said, it doesn't matter what format they're in. Ordinary
ASCII text is very nice, thank you. What we need is the words to
explain stuff, and the signposts that point people to where the words
can be found. It's a good idea to discuss what you're writing so that
two people don't work on the same thing without knowing, and that's
where the -doc list is important. But no matter, if you would like to
have a go, start now. At the prompt type 'ee' or 'pico' or 'vi' and
hey, you're a documenter!



--

Regards,
        -*Sue*-




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message





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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3  9:55:37 2000
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:53:09 -0700
From: David Johnson 
Organization: Acuson
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To: Joel Bjork 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
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Joel Bjork wrote:

> 
 is probably the easiest of all tags, one of its purposes is to display
> code so the text looks exactly as written in the HTML document, whitespace
> and linebreaks are preserved. I whipped up a small page showing you how it
> works, this page works well in both IE and NS as well as lynx.

Your example is great. I might change it so that it is green or amber
text on black background, so that it resembles an old monitor, and adds
a splash of color.

David


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 10: 5:35 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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To: Doug Young 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
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Doug Young wrote:

> Now thats another issue again ..... does 
 stuff look OK in Lynx ??
> I dunno if Lynx is that relevant to manuals with heaps of pics though ....
> unless the existing stuff can be readily converted to some sort of text.
> I won't be writing ANY docs that don't have heaps of screen shots,  so
> if that  results in something unusable to Lynx users then so be it .
> Probably any Lynx user would be beyond using the extremely simplistic
> newbie level stuff I do anyway.

I think at least part of the point of using 
 was to replace some
screenshots. For a text-only screenshot, 
 gives you a nearly
identical reproduction for only 1/100 the size (fiddle with CSS and
fonts and you can have a 100% pixel-for-pixel reproduction). And it's
easier to read. And easier to print out. You DO want it to be printed
out since during the installation the webpage will be unavailable.

Perhaps have two versions, one with screenshots and one with 
.

David


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 12:49:55 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C50537B6AE
	for ; Thu,  3 Aug 2000 12:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com)
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Message-ID: <03bd01bffd83$a2954d60$1600010a@pmr.com>
From: "Steve Fagan" 
To: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989A5CC.F30BABF8@acuson.com>
Subject: Another good site
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:47:19 -0500
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Not sure if anyone has made mention of this site.  It looked pretty good to
me.  A friend of mine sent it to me.

Steve

http://www.defcon1.org/



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 14:25:15 2000
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 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdo19166; Fri Aug  4 07:24:56 2000
Message-ID: <052a01bffd91$df81e360$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "David Johnson" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989A5CC.F30BABF8@acuson.com>
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:28:52 +1000
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> I think at least part of the point of using 
 was to replace some
> screenshots. For a text-only screenshot, 
 gives you a nearly
> identical reproduction for only 1/100 the size (fiddle with CSS and
> fonts and you can have a 100% pixel-for-pixel reproduction). And it's
> easier to read. And easier to print out. You DO want it to be printed
> out since during the installation the webpage will be unavailable.

OK ..... its certainly worth trying. All I need is time to learn 
 :)




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 14:46:31 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Num_LOC" 
To: 
Subject: Working with a soundblaster Live! Value
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:50:14 -0400
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	Ok I will start by saying that I have never compilied a BSD kernel, w/ that
said,
I have this problem. I am trying to get my SBLive! to work w/ FreeBSD I
added the line: "device	pcm0" in my config file. I thought that this is all
I had to do, so I re-compiled the kernel, and viola! the sound still did not
work. The pc booted fine, and everything else worked, but it still does not
see my sound card. Is their anything That I am missing, oh yea. I have
FreeBSD 4.0 installed, the one that just came out in march.

thanx for the help
-Num_LOC



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 15: 4:22 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: 
From: Stefan KORONKA 
To: 'Num_LOC' 
Cc: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: Working with a soundblaster Live! Value
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:04:20 +0300 
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> From: Num_LOC [mailto:numloc@home.com]
> Subject: Working with a soundblaster Live! Value
> 
> 
> 	Ok I will start by saying that I have never compilied a 
> BSD kernel, w/ that
> said,
> I have this problem. I am trying to get my SBLive! to work w/ 
> FreeBSD I
> added the line: "device	pcm0" in my config file. I 
> thought that this is all
> I had to do, so I re-compiled the kernel, and viola! the 
> sound still did not
> work. The pc booted fine, and everything else worked, but it 
> still does not
> see my sound card. Is their anything That I am missing, oh yea. I have
> FreeBSD 4.0 installed, the one that just came out in march.

you need to make the device for it ... something like

# su
# cd /dev
# sh MAKEDEV snd


hope it helps ...

stefan


> 
> thanx for the help
> -Num_LOC
> 
> 


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 15: 8:39 2000
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From: David Johnson 
Organization: Acuson
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To: Doug Young 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989A5CC.F30BABF8@acuson.com> <052a01bffd91$df81e360$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
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Doug Young wrote:
> 
> > I think at least part of the point of using 
 was to replace some
> > screenshots. For a text-only screenshot, 
 gives you a nearly
> > identical reproduction for only 1/100 the size (fiddle with CSS and
> > fonts and you can have a 100% pixel-for-pixel reproduction). And it's
> > easier to read. And easier to print out. You DO want it to be printed
> > out since during the installation the webpage will be unavailable.
> 
> OK ..... its certainly worth trying. All I need is time to learn 
 :)


 is the easiest HTML tag to use. Just create your text with a
mono-spaced font as you normally would, then prefix it with 
 and
end it with 
.

David


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 15: 8:45 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <054901bffd97$f19d4c50$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "GH" 
Cc: 
References:  <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <20000802215841.A36147@mithrandr.moria.org> <01a201bffcc0$9f2c6370$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <2000080222
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:12:37 +1000
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G'day GH

> Well, I will do my best to help you find what information you need.
>
> What do you need to find?

I explained the origin of the Pedantic FreeBSD in previous message. I intend
to expand on it so its relevant to newbies generally, and covers a wider
range of issues. What I'd like to achieve is something conceptually like the
Handbook or Complete FreeBSD,
with plenty of pics / diagrams / screenshots / whatever / etc (as in the
present Pedantic FreeBSD) , but without all the missing bits of information.
Another way to put it is to re-write the Handbook with the assumption that
the reader has NO prior knowledge of unix.

To do this I've been using my own  experience in implementing FreeBSD
systems in "real world" situations, trying to figure stuff out by collecting
info from wherever I can get it. I've found the existing Manual etc of only
limited use due to all the gaps, and also the fact that its so fragmented.
There is a heap of good info in the mailing list, but its like "a needle in
a haystack" finding stuff there when one is under time constraints.

Now to answer your question, its fairly obvious that if there is to be some
more explicit documentation it will need to be written almost exclusively by
a relative newbie (so ALL the info is regarded important), and if its to
cover a lot of issues it will need contributions from a bunch of people (I
have no interest personally in KDE / Gnome / ghostscript / etc, and also I
don't have unlimited time). Another issue where input would be useful is
warnings of problem hardware / software. (Eg SiS videocards are almost
always trouble, the mgetty package is broken & info on compiling from source
is too complicated to be usable by newbies, etc etc) There are also
countless shortcuts around the place that virtually never rate a mention by
the experts. An example is the excellent "ppp_script.sh" thingy that sets up
user-ppp in seconds with none of the aggro.
There must be hundreds of comparable things that which would  make life less
frustrating for newbies, but the ONLY way to learn of their existence is
from newbies, since the experts don't appear to be interested in stuff like
that.

> gh
> grasshacker@linkfast.net
>
> >
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 15:28:44 2000
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Message-ID: <055e01bffd9a$c1a17c80$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "David Johnson" 
Cc: 
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989A5CC.F30BABF8@acuson.com> <052a01bffd91$df81e360$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989ECD3.B5467FD6@acuson.com>
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:32:46 +1000
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Thanks David .... maybe a nice step by step guide to "tricky stuff to do
in html" could be useful too. Its one of those things I'd love to do but
unfortunately there's always some clients Win98 / Outlook Express box
with an email worm or the like :) Once the Pedantic FreeBSD is finished
the next thing on my agenda is to try replacing those virus traps with
something
safer Actually I'm doing a couple of SCO systems shortly ... will do some
FreeBSD ones if I get time for (or someone comes up with) a "step by step"
explanation of  getting a simple / modern / reliable GUI (CDE ??) &
StarOffice working.

> 
 is the easiest HTML tag to use. Just create your text with a
> mono-spaced font as you normally would, then prefix it with 
 and
> end it with 
.
>
> David
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 16: 9: 2 2000
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Message-ID: <005d01bffdb7$487605c0$31164ed8@hal>
From: "RJ Levesque, Jr." 
To: 
Subject: .htaccess help...........pleeeeeeeeeeeeeez
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:55:51 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFFD7C.71C26300
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a question and I really hope I posted this correctly being new to =
news groups...
I am trying to setup .htaccess in Apache for my FreeBSD 4 current. I =
have looked and looked and found nothing to help. All the help I find =
refers to the old Apache conf system which used three conf files and now =
it uses only one main conf if I understand this right. Can anyone help =
me here?
Sincerely,
RJ Levesque, Jr.
Le Tigre Productions

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFFD7C.71C26300
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I have a question and I really hope I posted this correctly being =
new to=20
news groups...
I am trying to setup .htaccess in Apache for my =
FreeBSD 4=20
current. I have looked and looked and found nothing to help. All the =
help I find=20
refers to the old Apache conf system which used three conf files and now =
it uses=20
only one main conf if I understand this right. Can anyone help me=20
here?
Sincerely,
RJ Levesque, Jr.
Le Tigre=20
Productions


------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFFD7C.71C26300--



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 17:50:47 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Haikal Saadh" 
To: 
Subject: Oh the bitter irony...
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:53:36 +1000
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...here I am, CVSupping to 4.1 from behind a windows box running interet
connection sharing....hopefully the situation will be reversed by next
week...



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 18:52:44 2000
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 19:48:39 -0600
From: Joe Warner 
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To: Steve Fagan 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Subject: Re: Another good site
References:  <04db01bffd50$0865bf00$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <3989A5CC.F30BABF8@acuson.com> <03bd01bffd83$a2954d60$1600010a@pmr.com>
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Steve,

   This is a great site!  I liked it so much, I bookmarked it.  Thanks for
passing this on.  8^}

Joe




Steve Fagan wrote:

> Not sure if anyone has made mention of this site.  It looked pretty good to
> me.  A friend of mine sent it to me.
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.defcon1.org/
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 19:14:59 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Raymond Law 
Subject: freebsd book
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
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I have searched through the internet and found only
two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and
FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two
books?  Are there any others?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Aug  3 19:29:50 2000
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From: "leegold" 
To: "Raymond Law" 
Cc: 
References: <20000804021449.18156.qmail@web1905.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: freebsd book
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The hardcopy documentation situation is not good - we've been
whining/talking alot about that. Web documents are better for the newbie IN
MY OPINION.


----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Law 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:14 PM
Subject: freebsd book


> I have searched through the internet and found only
> two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and
> FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two
> books?  Are there any others?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



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I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook (in HTML).  Both of
which are very good and I usually make sure to consult these before
posting a question to any of the mailing lists or news groups.  I  also
have UNIX for Dummies, which I found very helpful for learning the UNIX
basics and UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is a really great book
that covers a wide range of topics and is a fairly easy read.  I happen
to prefer the O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly doesn't really have any books
that act as a UNIX do-all or UNIX bible.  The closest to this I've seen
is UNIX Power Tools.  Most of their books are broken down by topic.
Example: If you're having problems setting up an Apache web server,
Apache, The Definitive Guide by O'Reilly will probably provide a lot of
useful information.  If you're just starting out with Perl programming,
Learning Perl by O'Reilly would probably fit the bill.  O'Reilly is
expected to write/publish a couple of BSD specific books in the future
but I think it will be a long time before the number of O'Reilly BSD
publications catches up with what they have for Linux.  The best
approach I have found to obtaining useful information is not to put all
your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve a problem
by gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO files and
responses I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news group
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc  I recommend that you consult any/all
documentation that you have in your personal library and on your system
before posting to the mailing lists or news groups.

Cheers

Joe


Raymond Law wrote:

> I have searched through the internet and found only
> two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and
> FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two
> books?  Are there any others?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!


--------------09889648B659C83E63BE5EE9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook (in HTML).  Both
of which are very good and I usually make sure to consult these before
posting a question to any of the mailing lists or news groups.  I 
also have UNIX for Dummies, which I found very helpful for learning the
UNIX basics and UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is a really great book
that covers a wide range of topics and is a fairly easy read.  I happen
to prefer the O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly doesn't really have any books
that act as a UNIX do-all or UNIX bible.  The closest to this I've
seen is UNIX Power Tools.  Most of their books are broken down by
topic.  Example: If you're having problems setting up an Apache web
server, Apache, The Definitive Guide by O'Reilly will probably provide
a lot of useful information.  If you're just starting out with Perl
programming, Learning Perl by O'Reilly would probably fit the bill. 
O'Reilly is expected to write/publish a couple of BSD specific books in
the future but I think it will be a long time before the number of O'Reilly
BSD publications catches up with what they have for Linux.  The best
approach I have found to obtaining useful information is not to put all
your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve a problem
by gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO files and
responses I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news group comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc 
I recommend that you consult any/all documentation that you have in your
personal library and on your system before posting to the mailing lists
or news groups.

Cheers

Joe

 

Raymond Law wrote:

I have searched through the internet and found only

two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and

FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two

books?  Are there any others?

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.

http://invites.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org

with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve

     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!

 

--------------09889648B659C83E63BE5EE9--



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4  6:23:23 2000
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From: "Steve Fagan" 
To: 
References: <20000804021449.18156.qmail@web1905.mail.yahoo.com> <398ABCBC.8CF7AD30@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: freebsd book
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:20:32 -0500
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------=_NextPart_000_04ED_01BFFDEC.DB7A5580
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I like the O'Reilly books too.  I used Managing Usenet to setup =
newsgroups for my company with no real problems.  I've started =
collecting their CD Bookshelf books.  For $70, I get HTML books ( Six =
Books) on a subject, like Unix (which includes the Powertools book) and =
Networking (which includes Firewalls and DNS Book's).
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Joe Warner=20
  To: Raymond Law=20
  Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG=20
  Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 7:53 AM
  Subject: Re: freebsd book


  I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook (in HTML).  Both =
of which are very good and I usually make sure to consult these before =
posting a question to any of the mailing lists or news groups.  I  also =
have UNIX for Dummies, which I found very helpful for learning the UNIX =
basics and UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is a really great book =
that covers a wide range of topics and is a fairly easy read.  I happen =
to prefer the O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly doesn't really have any books =
that act as a UNIX do-all or UNIX bible.  The closest to this I've seen =
is UNIX Power Tools.  Most of their books are broken down by topic.  =
Example: If you're having problems setting up an Apache web server, =
Apache, The Definitive Guide by O'Reilly will probably provide a lot of =
useful information.  If you're just starting out with Perl programming, =
Learning Perl by O'Reilly would probably fit the bill.  O'Reilly is =
expected to write/publish a couple of BSD specific books in the future =
but I think it will be a long time before the number of O'Reilly BSD =
publications catches up with what they have for Linux.  The best =
approach I have found to obtaining useful information is not to put all =
your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve a problem =
by gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO files and =
responses I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news group =
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc  I recommend that you consult any/all =
documentation that you have in your personal library and on your system =
before posting to the mailing lists or news groups.=20
  Cheers=20

  Joe=20
   =20

  Raymond Law wrote:=20

    I have searched through the internet and found only=20
    two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and=20
    FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two=20
    books?  Are there any others?=20
    __________________________________________________=20
    Do You Yahoo!?=20
    Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.=20
    http://invites.yahoo.com/=20

    To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org=20
    with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

  --=20

      FreeBSD =3D The Power to Serve=20
       ..Simply put =3D FreeBSD Rocks!=20
   =20


------=_NextPart_000_04ED_01BFFDEC.DB7A5580
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









I like the O'Reilly books too.  I =
used=20
Managing Usenet to setup newsgroups for my company with no=20
real problems.  I've started collecting their CD Bookshelf=20
books.  For $70, I get HTML books ( Six Books) on a subject, like =
Unix=20
(which includes the Powertools book) and Networking (which includes =

Firewalls and DNS Book's).



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Joe =
Warner=20
  
  
  
  
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 =
7:53=20
  AM

  
Subject: Re: freebsd book

  

I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook =
(in=20
  HTML).  Both of which are very good and I usually make sure to =
consult=20
  these before posting a question to any of the mailing lists or news=20
  groups.  I  also have UNIX for Dummies, which I found very =
helpful=20
  for learning the UNIX basics and UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is =
a=20
  really great book that covers a wide range of topics and is a fairly =
easy=20
  read.  I happen to prefer the O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly =
doesn't=20
  really have any books that act as a UNIX do-all or UNIX bible.  =
The=20
  closest to this I've seen is UNIX Power Tools.  Most of their =
books are=20
  broken down by topic.  Example: If you're having problems setting =
up an=20
  Apache web server, Apache, The Definitive Guide by O'Reilly =
will=20
  probably provide a lot of useful information.  If you're just =
starting=20
  out with Perl programming, Learning Perl by O'Reilly would =
probably fit=20
  the bill.  O'Reilly is expected to write/publish a couple of BSD =
specific=20
  books in the future but I think it will be a long time before the =
number of=20
  O'Reilly BSD publications catches up with what they have for =
Linux.  The=20
  best approach I have found to obtaining useful information is not to =
put all=20
  your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve a =
problem by=20
  gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO files and =
responses=20
  I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news group=20
  comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc  I recommend that you consult any/all=20
  documentation that you have in your personal library and on your =
system before=20
  posting to the mailing lists or news groups.=20
  
Cheers=20
  
Joe 
 =20
  
Raymond Law wrote:=20
  
I have searched through the internet and =
found only=20
    
two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and =

FreeBSD=20
    Handbook.  How would you compare these two 
books?  Are =
there=20
    any others?=20
    
__________________________________________________ 
Do You =
Yahoo!?=20
    
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. 
http://invites.yahoo.com/=20
    
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org 
with =
"unsubscribe=20
    freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

  
--=20
  
    FreeBSD =3D The Power to Serve=20
  
     ..Simply put =3D FreeBSD Rocks! =

 =20



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4  6:26: 6 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Haikal Saadh" 
To: "Joel Bjork" ,
	"Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
References: 
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:27:46 +1000
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Doesn't vi[m] have a command than execute a shell command and capture the
output?
I remember using it a while back,  but unfortunately, cannot remember. (I
lost my little printed vi reference).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Bjork" 
To: "Andrei A. Dergatchev" 
Cc: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" 
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view


>
> On 03-Aug-00 Andrei A. Dergatchev wrote:
> > About scripts to capture screen content - I searched deja and I found
> > that the most often recommended way to do it is to use XV.
> >
> > At http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ I download some pictures which
> > were made in this way to compare their sizes with those of Doug.
> > To use scripts one need to have X running, but then they are about 3-5
> > times smaller then those made with camera - probably might be useful
> > for lite version, esp. when amount of pictures grows to several dozens ?
> >
> The best way in my mind would be to use the 
 tag in HTML
> http://www.htmlhelp.org/reference/html40/block/pre.html .
> Combining it with CSS or, if you want to go the old ugly way a table with
a
> set bgcolor would make it look exactly like the real thing.
>
> ----------------------------------
> E-Mail: Joel Bjork 
> Date: 03-Aug-00
> Time: 10:20:22
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4  6:40:10 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <007901bffe19$8f523470$b5e17ad1@beefstew>
From: "leegold" 
To: 
Subject: Re: freebsd book
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:40:31 -0400
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There's a .edu doc. that helped me install the thing. It gave STEP by STEP
instructions:
http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs1206/Spring00/Unix-Install.html#UNIX

it's for 3.3 but it's clear. there's also how to set up ppp calling out.
nothing mystical - just step by step 1.2.3....more useful to me than all the
books so far for the install.


----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Warner 
To: Raymond Law 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: freebsd book


> I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook (in HTML).  Both of
> which are very good and I usually make sure to consult these before
> posting a question to any of the mailing lists or news groups.  I  also
> have UNIX for Dummies, which I found very helpful for learning the UNIX
> basics and UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is a really great book
> that covers a wide range of topics and is a fairly easy read.  I happen
> to prefer the O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly doesn't really have any books
> that act as a UNIX do-all or UNIX bible.  The closest to this I've seen
> is UNIX Power Tools.  Most of their books are broken down by topic.
> Example: If you're having problems setting up an Apache web server,
> Apache, The Definitive Guide by O'Reilly will probably provide a lot of
> useful information.  If you're just starting out with Perl programming,
> Learning Perl by O'Reilly would probably fit the bill.  O'Reilly is
> expected to write/publish a couple of BSD specific books in the future
> but I think it will be a long time before the number of O'Reilly BSD
> publications catches up with what they have for Linux.  The best
> approach I have found to obtaining useful information is not to put all
> your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve a problem
> by gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO files and
> responses I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news group
> comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc  I recommend that you consult any/all
> documentation that you have in your personal library and on your system
> before posting to the mailing lists or news groups.
>
> Cheers
>
> Joe
>
>
> Raymond Law wrote:
>
> > I have searched through the internet and found only
> > two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and
> > FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two
> > books?  Are there any others?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>
> --
>
>     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
>      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
>
>




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4  7:42: 1 2000
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To: "Steve Fagan" 
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:42:36 -0600
Subject: Re: freebsd book
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That's great!  I plan to add the CD Bookshelf to my collection as well.  No
matter where you get your information/answers from, I think it's important
to make the extra effort to take Sue Blake's advice and document your
findings in a step-by-step manner (a way that will benefit users from all
experience levels) and submit it to The FreeBSD Documentation Project.
This will not only help you and countless FreeBSD/UNIX users find
information and solve problems, it will also get you more involved with the
BSD community as a whole.  Just imagine how many people you would help and
the positive feedback you could get if you wrote up and submitted some easy
to understand documentation for an existing problem that you were able to
resolve.  Not everybody has the time or dedication to make this a regular
practice but every little bit helps and will go a long way towards making
the amount of existing and useful information grow.

Cheers

Joe



|--------+----------------------->
|        |          "Steve Fagan"|
|        |                    |
|        |                       |
|        |          08/04/00     |
|        |          07:20 AM     |
|        |                       |
|--------+----------------------->
  >---------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                         |
  |       To:     freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG               |
  |       cc:     (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS)                     |
  |       Subject:     Re: freebsd book                     |
  >---------------------------------------------------------|





I like the O'Reilly books too.  I used Managing Usenet to setup newsgroups
for my company with no real problems.  I've started collecting their CD
Bookshelf books.  For $70, I get HTML books ( Six Books) on a subject, like
Unix (which includes the Powertools book) and Networking (which includes
Firewalls and DNS Book's).
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joe Warner
  To: Raymond Law
  Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
  Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 7:53 AM
  Subject: Re: freebsd book


  I have the Complete FreeBSD and The FreeBSD Handbook (in HTML).  Both of
which are very good and I usually make sure to consult these before posting
a question to any of the mailing lists or news groups.  I  also have UNIX
for Dummies, which I found very helpful for learning the UNIX basics and
UNIX Power Tools by O'Reilly, this is a really great book that covers a
wide range of topics and is a fairly easy read.  I happen to prefer the
O'Reilly books.  O'Reilly doesn't really have any books that act as a UNIX
do-all or UNIX bible.  The closest to this I've seen is UNIX Power Tools.
Most of their books are broken down by topic.  Example: If you're having
problems setting up an Apache web server, Apache, The Definitive Guide by
O'Reilly will probably provide a lot of useful information.  If you're just
starting out with Perl programming, Learning Perl by O'Reilly would
probably fit the bill.  O'Reilly is expected to write/publish a couple of
BSD specific books in the future but I think it will be a long time before
the number of O'Reilly BSD publications catches up with what they have for
Linux.  The best approach I have found to obtaining useful information is
not to put all your eggs in one basket.  Typically, I'll eventually resolve
a problem by gleaning some information from my books, man pages, HOWTO
files and responses I get from FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and the news
group comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc  I recommend that you consult any/all
documentation that you have in your personal library and on your system
before posting to the mailing lists or news groups.
  Cheers

  Joe


  Raymond Law wrote:

    I have searched through the internet and found only
    two FreeBSD books.  They are Complete FreeBSD and
    FreeBSD Handbook.  How would you compare these two
    books?  Are there any others?
    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
    http://invites.yahoo.com/

    To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
    with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

  --

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4 15:25: 3 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp.screaming.net (smtp.screaming.net [212.49.224.20])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A025C37B647
	for ; Fri,  4 Aug 2000 15:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
	(envelope-from bigotfo@bigfoot.com)
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From: John Murphy 
To: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Oh the bitter irony...
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:24:39 +0100
Organization: The Organisation
Reply-To: bigotfo@bigfoot.com
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>...here I am, CVSupping to 4.1 from behind a windows box running interet
>connection sharing....hopefully the situation will be reversed by next
>week...
>
One day you'll look back and laugh at the things you did ;-)

Probably wont take a week.

If you're moving from (IDE) wd driver to ad, you'll notice the =
difference!

Good Luck
John.



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4 16:59:36 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Haikal Saadh" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: Oh the bitter irony...
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:02:35 +1000
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As for performance, I can't say anything, as this particular box was being
used as my desktop until 3 days ago. Now that I have a new computer, I am
going to hopefully assign to it, the job of network server for the 3 or so
computers in my flat.

I hope to be able to get it going as a dial-up gateway,samba and DHCP
server.

Speaking of which, I've noticed that all the documentated regarding DHCP is
about setting up DHCP clients. Anyone got links to a how-to for setting up a
DHCP server?


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Murphy" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Oh the bitter irony...


>...here I am, CVSupping to 4.1 from behind a windows box running interet
>connection sharing....hopefully the situation will be reversed by next
>week...
>
One day you'll look back and laugh at the things you did ;-)

Probably wont take a week.

If you're moving from (IDE) wd driver to ad, you'll notice the difference!

Good Luck
John.



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with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4 19:10:44 2000
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To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit
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                         FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit
                                       
   (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list.
   It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/)
   
   FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about
   installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests
   are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to
   questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and
   covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt
   with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on
   our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how
   to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to
   use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories,
   moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the
   FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to
   freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are
   doing the same things that we do as newbies.
   
   One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find
   help when we need it. Here are some suggestions:
   
When something doesn't work the way you expect

    1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and
       security advisories.
    2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html
    3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
       `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question
       to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
       
Mailing lists

   When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only
   one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
   FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as
   more general and advanced questions.
   
   You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a
   question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you
   personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and
   followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them
   different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to
   freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the
   recent questions and their answers.
   
   Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at
   http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer
   FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when
   they get questions which are difficult to understand.
   http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too.
   
   If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and
   ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to
   the support mailing list.
   
   Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing
   list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might
   get the answer right away. It's always worth trying.
   
   Other mailing lists
   (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS)
   cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll
   need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's
   probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for
   advice about where to post a more specialised question.
   
   FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional
   announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick
   Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too.
   
Manuals

   You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to
   use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not
   always as easy as it sounds!
   
   If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a
   brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need,
   always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you
   do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction.
   
   Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is
   encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at
   http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html
   
Other resources

   A resource list is available at
   http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and
   inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It
   includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web
   pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a
   suggestion for good material to be included, please write to
   freebsd-newbies and tell us about it.
   
But I have seen people asking questions here!

   It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a
   mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from
   time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't
   belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose
   job it is to sort these problems out privately.
   
   The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It
   is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies
   so we all make mistakes. That's OK.
   
   One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions,
   believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies,
   not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the
   situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to
   redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently.
   There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either.
   
   So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions
   as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies
   can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on
   our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not
   allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the
   mistakes that we need to make in order to learn.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: 
   Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
   with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. 
   
   Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list.
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4 19:26:52 2000
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Aug  4 19:58:49 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from webmail2.sonnet.de (ns2.sonnet.de [212.93.6.232])
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From: Dantler@gmx.net
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Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 05:06:29 +0200
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Hallo you all !

that is not a Spam.

Anyway a E-Mail from you whas comeing in my Mailbox from where I have your E-Mail address.
So i send you back a E-Mail with a very interesst Internet -Address.

http://www.LottoTeam.to/english/vn/shorst

Take a little look on it and have a little fun.

                                        Mfg
                                           Horst




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5  7:37: 2 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 08:32:57 -0600
From: Joe Warner 
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Hi all,

   I've had a real learning experience with my FreeBSD (3.4) system at
work over the past couple of days and at the risk of making myself look
like an idiot, I felt it important enough to share.  Since I'm a newbie
and hope to help other newbies when facing similar situations, this
email is directed mainly at freebsd-newbies.  However, I also felt it
important enough to share with freebsd-advocacy because of how amazed I
am with the OS.  Instead of a little cartoon devil, maybe the mascot
should be the Energizer Bunny?  FreeBSD keeps going and going and
going... 8^)  Anyway, please bear with me.  This is probably going to be
pretty lengthy, so for those of you don't like to read or are
uninterested, just close this email and delete it now.  For the rest of
you, read on...
    When I came into work last Thursday morning, I noticed that my PC
(Compaq Deskpro 2000), running FreeBSD 3.4 was at the login prompt and
my WIN NT machine was at the boot up password.  I realized then that the
inevitable had happened....Power Outage!  Thinking that power
outages/cold reboots meant death to most UNIX systems, I hurried to
prevent this from happening again and hooked up an APC Smart-UPS 1000
that we had sitting in one of our storage closets.  Hooking it up to my
FreeBSD machine was easy enough.  I just plugged the power cord into a
receptacle and then plugged the power from the CPU and monitor into the
back of the UPS.  I finished by attaching the serial cable on the UPS to
the serial port on the back of the CPU (COM1) - There is only one serial
port available for Compaq Deskpro's.  After hooking it up, I realized
that I would need to install some software that could communicate with
the UPS through the serial line and allow me to do a graceful shutdown
in the event of power loss.  I went to APC's web site and though they
had their Powerchute software available for many commercial versions of
UNIX, I didn't see anything that was designed specifically for any of
the BSD's.  They even had a Linux version and I learned later that at
least one person was running this successfully under Linux emulation on
his FreeBSD 3.4 system.  I didn't want to run this under Linux emulation
if I didn't have to.  Later, I came across an application in the ports
collection called UPSD - 2.0 that seemed to be designed specifically to
work with the APC Smart-UPS models.  I loaded the 4th CD from the CD ROM
set and from /usr/ports/sysutils/upsd/ I typed make install and
installed it.  I noticed that there wasn't any documentation included
with this port, not even a man page.  It loaded only 2 files, the upsd
executable in /usr/local/sbin and the configuration file (upsd.conf) in
/usr/local/etc  I su'd to root and attempted to spawn the daemon by
cd'ng to /usr/local/sbin and typing # ./upsd  At this point, my whole
system locked up tighter than a drum!  I couldn't kill X and couldn't
switch to another terminal.  Nothing!  I had to cold-reboot my system
again!  After I booted back up, I looked at my logs and noticed a
message indicating there was a permission problem with /dev/cuaa0  This
device is owned by uucp and belongs to the dialer group.  I su'd to root
again and adjusted the permissions so that other users would have access
and then tried to execute the program again.  Same thing happened,
complete lockup!  At this point, I was pretty frustrated and none the
information I had read in my books or the answers I received from
posting to FreeBSD-Questions seemed to help.  I cd'd to
/usr/ports/sysutils/upsd and typed make deinstall and went home.
    When I came in Friday morning, I noticed an email from someone who
said they were using a port called UPSMON - 2.1.3 with an APC Smart-UPS
on their FreeBSD system without any problems.  This port wasn't on the
CD ROM set, so when I installed it, it had to fetch it from an ftp
site.  No problem, right?  Wrong!  I installed this port and decided to
reboot.  Big mistake!  Now, during boot-up, my system would just hang
at:

local package initialization: Cannot open /dev/cuaa0: Permission denied
upsmond<---(this is where it would hang)

    After hearing the voice of Ralph from the Simpsons in my head, going
Ha! Ha!.., I thought, now what do I do!  After going through all my
books and documentation and trying to boot into single-user mode, fixit
mode from the 2nd cd in the cd rom set and even from kernel.GENERIC, I
realized I wasn't getting anywhere.  My machine would always hang when
trying to launch the upsmond daemon during boot up.  As a last resort, I
posted to FreeBSD-Questions and got the answer I was looking for.  I was
told to go into single-user mode.  At the beginning of the boot-up
process, there is a ten second count down that tells you to either hit
enter or wait for the count down to finish for system boot-up.  Before
the counter finishes, you hit the space bar and you're presented with a
prompt where you can specify different boot options.  I specified "boot
-s" for single user mode.  In The Complete FreeBSD, it tells you to boot
into single-user mode and run fsck on / by issuing: fsck -y /   I
ran this on / and /dev/wd0s1a, respectively.  Then it tells you to mount
/ by typing: mount -u /  I did this and it let me mount it.  Lastly, it
says to mount /usr by typing: mount /usr It would let me mount this but
only with read access.  I needed write access so that I could go into
/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ and either remove or change the upsmond.sh file in
there that was causing my system to hang.  I got a response from someone
telling me to mount /usr by typing the following: mount -rwf /usr  This
worked and I was able to edit upsmond.sh so that it was pointing to
/dev/cuaa1 and not cuaa0.  This got my system booting.  I found out
later that I could have successfully mounted /usr with r/w access if I
would have first fsck'd it by issuing: fsck -y /usr (I probably should
have done this for /var too)
    I got my system booting again (Whew!) but still haven't figured out
why /dev/cuaa0 causes problems.  I seems as if some kind of conflict is
going on, maybe something else is using this device?  I haven't found
the answer to this yet.  I got an email response back from APC, saying
they did have an application that would work with FreeBSD but I would
need to purchase their Simple UNIX Serial cable for $39.00 in order for
it to work.  So, now I don't know if it's a device conflict or the cable
but I doubt I'll shell out the money for a new cable.  Maybe my manager
will let me order it and reimburse me?
    I've always thought that cold reboot/shutdowns were death to UNIX
systems, especially if you did it more than 5 or 6 times.  I've
completely trashed my systems this way when I was using Red Hat 6.x and
Caldera 2.x in the past.  Cold booted more than 5 times and got the
dreaded "kernel panic" message and had to reinstall.  I ended up cold
booting my FreeBSD system more than 12 times the last couple of days and
it's still going!  8^)  So, the moral of this story?  FreeBSD is
forgiving, you just need to tell it how to forgive you!  And...forgive
me for such a long story... 8^}

Joe


--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5  9: 2:49 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78])
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 11:02:47 -0500
To: Joe Warner , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
From: Frank Pawlak 
Subject: Re: Newbie Learning Experience
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IMHO this is a great story.  Perhaps this deserves a daemon news spot with 
some HOWTO implications.

Regards,
Frank

At 08:32 AM 8/5/2000 -0600, Joe Warner wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>    I've had a real learning experience with my FreeBSD (3.4) system at
>work over the past couple of days and at the risk of making myself look
>like an idiot, I felt it important enough to share.  Since I'm a newbie
>and hope to help other newbies when facing similar situations, this
>email is directed mainly at freebsd-newbies.  However, I also felt it
>important enough to share with freebsd-advocacy because of how amazed I
>am with the OS.  Instead of a little cartoon devil, maybe the mascot
>should be the Energizer Bunny?  FreeBSD keeps going and going and
>going... 8^)  Anyway, please bear with me.  This is probably going to be
>pretty lengthy, so for those of you don't like to read or are
>uninterested, just close this email and delete it now.  For the rest of
>you, read on...
>     When I came into work last Thursday morning, I noticed that my PC
>(Compaq Deskpro 2000), running FreeBSD 3.4 was at the login prompt and
>my WIN NT machine was at the boot up password.  I realized then that the
>inevitable had happened....Power Outage!  Thinking that power
>outages/cold reboots meant death to most UNIX systems, I hurried to
>prevent this from happening again and hooked up an APC Smart-UPS 1000
>that we had sitting in one of our storage closets.  Hooking it up to my
>FreeBSD machine was easy enough.  I just plugged the power cord into a
>receptacle and then plugged the power from the CPU and monitor into the
>back of the UPS.  I finished by attaching the serial cable on the UPS to
>the serial port on the back of the CPU (COM1) - There is only one serial
>port available for Compaq Deskpro's.  After hooking it up, I realized
>that I would need to install some software that could communicate with
>the UPS through the serial line and allow me to do a graceful shutdown
>in the event of power loss.  I went to APC's web site and though they
>had their Powerchute software available for many commercial versions of
>UNIX, I didn't see anything that was designed specifically for any of
>the BSD's.  They even had a Linux version and I learned later that at
>least one person was running this successfully under Linux emulation on
>his FreeBSD 3.4 system.  I didn't want to run this under Linux emulation
>if I didn't have to.  Later, I came across an application in the ports
>collection called UPSD - 2.0 that seemed to be designed specifically to
>work with the APC Smart-UPS models.  I loaded the 4th CD from the CD ROM
>set and from /usr/ports/sysutils/upsd/ I typed make install and
>installed it.  I noticed that there wasn't any documentation included
>with this port, not even a man page.  It loaded only 2 files, the upsd
>executable in /usr/local/sbin and the configuration file (upsd.conf) in
>/usr/local/etc  I su'd to root and attempted to spawn the daemon by
>cd'ng to /usr/local/sbin and typing # ./upsd  At this point, my whole
>system locked up tighter than a drum!  I couldn't kill X and couldn't
>switch to another terminal.  Nothing!  I had to cold-reboot my system
>again!  After I booted back up, I looked at my logs and noticed a
>message indicating there was a permission problem with /dev/cuaa0  This
>device is owned by uucp and belongs to the dialer group.  I su'd to root
>again and adjusted the permissions so that other users would have access
>and then tried to execute the program again.  Same thing happened,
>complete lockup!  At this point, I was pretty frustrated and none the
>information I had read in my books or the answers I received from
>posting to FreeBSD-Questions seemed to help.  I cd'd to
>/usr/ports/sysutils/upsd and typed make deinstall and went home.
>     When I came in Friday morning, I noticed an email from someone who
>said they were using a port called UPSMON - 2.1.3 with an APC Smart-UPS
>on their FreeBSD system without any problems.  This port wasn't on the
>CD ROM set, so when I installed it, it had to fetch it from an ftp
>site.  No problem, right?  Wrong!  I installed this port and decided to
>reboot.  Big mistake!  Now, during boot-up, my system would just hang
>at:
>
>local package initialization: Cannot open /dev/cuaa0: Permission denied
>upsmond<---(this is where it would hang)
>
>     After hearing the voice of Ralph from the Simpsons in my head, going
>Ha! Ha!.., I thought, now what do I do!  After going through all my
>books and documentation and trying to boot into single-user mode, fixit
>mode from the 2nd cd in the cd rom set and even from kernel.GENERIC, I
>realized I wasn't getting anywhere.  My machine would always hang when
>trying to launch the upsmond daemon during boot up.  As a last resort, I
>posted to FreeBSD-Questions and got the answer I was looking for.  I was
>told to go into single-user mode.  At the beginning of the boot-up
>process, there is a ten second count down that tells you to either hit
>enter or wait for the count down to finish for system boot-up.  Before
>the counter finishes, you hit the space bar and you're presented with a
>prompt where you can specify different boot options.  I specified "boot
>-s" for single user mode.  In The Complete FreeBSD, it tells you to boot
>into single-user mode and run fsck on / by issuing: fsck -y /   I
>ran this on / and /dev/wd0s1a, respectively.  Then it tells you to mount
>/ by typing: mount -u /  I did this and it let me mount it.  Lastly, it
>says to mount /usr by typing: mount /usr It would let me mount this but
>only with read access.  I needed write access so that I could go into
>/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ and either remove or change the upsmond.sh file in
>there that was causing my system to hang.  I got a response from someone
>telling me to mount /usr by typing the following: mount -rwf /usr  This
>worked and I was able to edit upsmond.sh so that it was pointing to
>/dev/cuaa1 and not cuaa0.  This got my system booting.  I found out
>later that I could have successfully mounted /usr with r/w access if I
>would have first fsck'd it by issuing: fsck -y /usr (I probably should
>have done this for /var too)
>     I got my system booting again (Whew!) but still haven't figured out
>why /dev/cuaa0 causes problems.  I seems as if some kind of conflict is
>going on, maybe something else is using this device?  I haven't found
>the answer to this yet.  I got an email response back from APC, saying
>they did have an application that would work with FreeBSD but I would
>need to purchase their Simple UNIX Serial cable for $39.00 in order for
>it to work.  So, now I don't know if it's a device conflict or the cable
>but I doubt I'll shell out the money for a new cable.  Maybe my manager
>will let me order it and reimburse me?
>     I've always thought that cold reboot/shutdowns were death to UNIX
>systems, especially if you did it more than 5 or 6 times.  I've
>completely trashed my systems this way when I was using Red Hat 6.x and
>Caldera 2.x in the past.  Cold booted more than 5 times and got the
>dreaded "kernel panic" message and had to reinstall.  I ended up cold
>booting my FreeBSD system more than 12 times the last couple of days and
>it's still going!  8^)  So, the moral of this story?  FreeBSD is
>forgiving, you just need to tell it how to forgive you!  And...forgive
>me for such a long story... 8^}
>
>Joe
>
>
>--
>
>     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
>      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
>
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5  9:13:38 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:09:05 -0600
From: Joe Warner 
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Thanks Frank.  Actually, I thought about posting it on Daemon News but it
would probably be too long, since I don't have a URL to link it to.  Oh
well....such is the life of a lamer.  8^)

Joe


Frank Pawlak wrote:

> IMHO this is a great story.  Perhaps this deserves a daemon news spot with
> some HOWTO implications.
>
> Regards,
> Frank
>
> At 08:32 AM 8/5/2000 -0600, Joe Warner wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >    I've had a real learning experience with my FreeBSD (3.4) system at
> >work over the past couple of days and at the risk of making myself look
> >like an idiot, I felt it important enough to share.  Since I'm a newbie
> >and hope to help other newbies when facing similar situations, this
> >email is directed mainly at freebsd-newbies.  However, I also felt it
> >important enough to share with freebsd-advocacy because of how amazed I
> >am with the OS.  Instead of a little cartoon devil, maybe the mascot
> >should be the Energizer Bunny?  FreeBSD keeps going and going and
> >going... 8^)  Anyway, please bear with me.  This is probably going to be
> >pretty lengthy, so for those of you don't like to read or are
> >uninterested, just close this email and delete it now.  For the rest of
> >you, read on...
> >     When I came into work last Thursday morning, I noticed that my PC
> >(Compaq Deskpro 2000), running FreeBSD 3.4 was at the login prompt and
> >my WIN NT machine was at the boot up password.  I realized then that the
> >inevitable had happened....Power Outage!  Thinking that power
> >outages/cold reboots meant death to most UNIX systems, I hurried to
> >prevent this from happening again and hooked up an APC Smart-UPS 1000
> >that we had sitting in one of our storage closets.  Hooking it up to my
> >FreeBSD machine was easy enough.  I just plugged the power cord into a
> >receptacle and then plugged the power from the CPU and monitor into the
> >back of the UPS.  I finished by attaching the serial cable on the UPS to
> >the serial port on the back of the CPU (COM1) - There is only one serial
> >port available for Compaq Deskpro's.  After hooking it up, I realized
> >that I would need to install some software that could communicate with
> >the UPS through the serial line and allow me to do a graceful shutdown
> >in the event of power loss.  I went to APC's web site and though they
> >had their Powerchute software available for many commercial versions of
> >UNIX, I didn't see anything that was designed specifically for any of
> >the BSD's.  They even had a Linux version and I learned later that at
> >least one person was running this successfully under Linux emulation on
> >his FreeBSD 3.4 system.  I didn't want to run this under Linux emulation
> >if I didn't have to.  Later, I came across an application in the ports
> >collection called UPSD - 2.0 that seemed to be designed specifically to
> >work with the APC Smart-UPS models.  I loaded the 4th CD from the CD ROM
> >set and from /usr/ports/sysutils/upsd/ I typed make install and
> >installed it.  I noticed that there wasn't any documentation included
> >with this port, not even a man page.  It loaded only 2 files, the upsd
> >executable in /usr/local/sbin and the configuration file (upsd.conf) in
> >/usr/local/etc  I su'd to root and attempted to spawn the daemon by
> >cd'ng to /usr/local/sbin and typing # ./upsd  At this point, my whole
> >system locked up tighter than a drum!  I couldn't kill X and couldn't
> >switch to another terminal.  Nothing!  I had to cold-reboot my system
> >again!  After I booted back up, I looked at my logs and noticed a
> >message indicating there was a permission problem with /dev/cuaa0  This
> >device is owned by uucp and belongs to the dialer group.  I su'd to root
> >again and adjusted the permissions so that other users would have access
> >and then tried to execute the program again.  Same thing happened,
> >complete lockup!  At this point, I was pretty frustrated and none the
> >information I had read in my books or the answers I received from
> >posting to FreeBSD-Questions seemed to help.  I cd'd to
> >/usr/ports/sysutils/upsd and typed make deinstall and went home.
> >     When I came in Friday morning, I noticed an email from someone who
> >said they were using a port called UPSMON - 2.1.3 with an APC Smart-UPS
> >on their FreeBSD system without any problems.  This port wasn't on the
> >CD ROM set, so when I installed it, it had to fetch it from an ftp
> >site.  No problem, right?  Wrong!  I installed this port and decided to
> >reboot.  Big mistake!  Now, during boot-up, my system would just hang
> >at:
> >
> >local package initialization: Cannot open /dev/cuaa0: Permission denied
> >upsmond<---(this is where it would hang)
> >
> >     After hearing the voice of Ralph from the Simpsons in my head, going
> >Ha! Ha!.., I thought, now what do I do!  After going through all my
> >books and documentation and trying to boot into single-user mode, fixit
> >mode from the 2nd cd in the cd rom set and even from kernel.GENERIC, I
> >realized I wasn't getting anywhere.  My machine would always hang when
> >trying to launch the upsmond daemon during boot up.  As a last resort, I
> >posted to FreeBSD-Questions and got the answer I was looking for.  I was
> >told to go into single-user mode.  At the beginning of the boot-up
> >process, there is a ten second count down that tells you to either hit
> >enter or wait for the count down to finish for system boot-up.  Before
> >the counter finishes, you hit the space bar and you're presented with a
> >prompt where you can specify different boot options.  I specified "boot
> >-s" for single user mode.  In The Complete FreeBSD, it tells you to boot
> >into single-user mode and run fsck on / by issuing: fsck -y /   I
> >ran this on / and /dev/wd0s1a, respectively.  Then it tells you to mount
> >/ by typing: mount -u /  I did this and it let me mount it.  Lastly, it
> >says to mount /usr by typing: mount /usr It would let me mount this but
> >only with read access.  I needed write access so that I could go into
> >/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ and either remove or change the upsmond.sh file in
> >there that was causing my system to hang.  I got a response from someone
> >telling me to mount /usr by typing the following: mount -rwf /usr  This
> >worked and I was able to edit upsmond.sh so that it was pointing to
> >/dev/cuaa1 and not cuaa0.  This got my system booting.  I found out
> >later that I could have successfully mounted /usr with r/w access if I
> >would have first fsck'd it by issuing: fsck -y /usr (I probably should
> >have done this for /var too)
> >     I got my system booting again (Whew!) but still haven't figured out
> >why /dev/cuaa0 causes problems.  I seems as if some kind of conflict is
> >going on, maybe something else is using this device?  I haven't found
> >the answer to this yet.  I got an email response back from APC, saying
> >they did have an application that would work with FreeBSD but I would
> >need to purchase their Simple UNIX Serial cable for $39.00 in order for
> >it to work.  So, now I don't know if it's a device conflict or the cable
> >but I doubt I'll shell out the money for a new cable.  Maybe my manager
> >will let me order it and reimburse me?
> >     I've always thought that cold reboot/shutdowns were death to UNIX
> >systems, especially if you did it more than 5 or 6 times.  I've
> >completely trashed my systems this way when I was using Red Hat 6.x and
> >Caldera 2.x in the past.  Cold booted more than 5 times and got the
> >dreaded "kernel panic" message and had to reinstall.  I ended up cold
> >booting my FreeBSD system more than 12 times the last couple of days and
> >it's still going!  8^)  So, the moral of this story?  FreeBSD is
> >forgiving, you just need to tell it how to forgive you!  And...forgive
> >me for such a long story... 8^}
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
> >      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 10:40:50 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:40:30 -0500
To: Joe Warner 
From: Frank Pawlak 
Subject: Re: Newbie Learning Experience
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <398C3C21.CAB81AB4@uswest.net>
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Me thinks you sell yourself too short.  I would touch it up a tad to 
highlight the process, otherwise the length appears to be OK.  Am sure that 
someone can help with the link.  Just my $0.02

Frank

At 10:09 AM 8/5/2000 -0600, Joe Warner wrote:
>Thanks Frank.  Actually, I thought about posting it on Daemon News but it
>would probably be too long, since I don't have a URL to link it to.  Oh
>well....such is the life of a lamer.  8^)
>
>Joe
>
>
>Frank Pawlak wrote:
>
> > IMHO this is a great story.  Perhaps this deserves a daemon news spot with
> > some HOWTO implications.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Frank
> >
> > At 08:32 AM 8/5/2000 -0600, Joe Warner wrote:
> > >Hi all,
> > >
> > >    I've had a real learning experience with my FreeBSD (3.4) system at
> > >work over the past couple of days and at the risk of making myself look
> > >like an idiot, I felt it important enough to share.  Since I'm a newbie
> > >and hope to help other newbies when facing similar situations, this
> > >email is directed mainly at freebsd-newbies.  However, I also felt it
> > >important enough to share with freebsd-advocacy because of how amazed I
> > >am with the OS.  Instead of a little cartoon devil, maybe the mascot
> > >should be the Energizer Bunny?  FreeBSD keeps going and going and
> > >going... 8^)  Anyway, please bear with me.  This is probably going to be
> > >pretty lengthy, so for those of you don't like to read or are
> > >uninterested, just close this email and delete it now.  For the rest of
> > >you, read on...
> > >     When I came into work last Thursday morning, I noticed that my PC
> > >(Compaq Deskpro 2000), running FreeBSD 3.4 was at the login prompt and
> > >my WIN NT machine was at the boot up password.  I realized then that the
> > >inevitable had happened....Power Outage!  Thinking that power
> > >outages/cold reboots meant death to most UNIX systems, I hurried to
> > >prevent this from happening again and hooked up an APC Smart-UPS 1000
> > >that we had sitting in one of our storage closets.  Hooking it up to my
> > >FreeBSD machine was easy enough.  I just plugged the power cord into a
> > >receptacle and then plugged the power from the CPU and monitor into the
> > >back of the UPS.  I finished by attaching the serial cable on the UPS to
> > >the serial port on the back of the CPU (COM1) - There is only one serial
> > >port available for Compaq Deskpro's.  After hooking it up, I realized
> > >that I would need to install some software that could communicate with
> > >the UPS through the serial line and allow me to do a graceful shutdown
> > >in the event of power loss.  I went to APC's web site and though they
> > >had their Powerchute software available for many commercial versions of
> > >UNIX, I didn't see anything that was designed specifically for any of
> > >the BSD's.  They even had a Linux version and I learned later that at
> > >least one person was running this successfully under Linux emulation on
> > >his FreeBSD 3.4 system.  I didn't want to run this under Linux emulation
> > >if I didn't have to.  Later, I came across an application in the ports
> > >collection called UPSD - 2.0 that seemed to be designed specifically to
> > >work with the APC Smart-UPS models.  I loaded the 4th CD from the CD ROM
> > >set and from /usr/ports/sysutils/upsd/ I typed make install and
> > >installed it.  I noticed that there wasn't any documentation included
> > >with this port, not even a man page.  It loaded only 2 files, the upsd
> > >executable in /usr/local/sbin and the configuration file (upsd.conf) in
> > >/usr/local/etc  I su'd to root and attempted to spawn the daemon by
> > >cd'ng to /usr/local/sbin and typing # ./upsd  At this point, my whole
> > >system locked up tighter than a drum!  I couldn't kill X and couldn't
> > >switch to another terminal.  Nothing!  I had to cold-reboot my system
> > >again!  After I booted back up, I looked at my logs and noticed a
> > >message indicating there was a permission problem with /dev/cuaa0  This
> > >device is owned by uucp and belongs to the dialer group.  I su'd to root
> > >again and adjusted the permissions so that other users would have access
> > >and then tried to execute the program again.  Same thing happened,
> > >complete lockup!  At this point, I was pretty frustrated and none the
> > >information I had read in my books or the answers I received from
> > >posting to FreeBSD-Questions seemed to help.  I cd'd to
> > >/usr/ports/sysutils/upsd and typed make deinstall and went home.
> > >     When I came in Friday morning, I noticed an email from someone who
> > >said they were using a port called UPSMON - 2.1.3 with an APC Smart-UPS
> > >on their FreeBSD system without any problems.  This port wasn't on the
> > >CD ROM set, so when I installed it, it had to fetch it from an ftp
> > >site.  No problem, right?  Wrong!  I installed this port and decided to
> > >reboot.  Big mistake!  Now, during boot-up, my system would just hang
> > >at:
> > >
> > >local package initialization: Cannot open /dev/cuaa0: Permission denied
> > >upsmond<---(this is where it would hang)
> > >
> > >     After hearing the voice of Ralph from the Simpsons in my head, going
> > >Ha! Ha!.., I thought, now what do I do!  After going through all my
> > >books and documentation and trying to boot into single-user mode, fixit
> > >mode from the 2nd cd in the cd rom set and even from kernel.GENERIC, I
> > >realized I wasn't getting anywhere.  My machine would always hang when
> > >trying to launch the upsmond daemon during boot up.  As a last resort, I
> > >posted to FreeBSD-Questions and got the answer I was looking for.  I was
> > >told to go into single-user mode.  At the beginning of the boot-up
> > >process, there is a ten second count down that tells you to either hit
> > >enter or wait for the count down to finish for system boot-up.  Before
> > >the counter finishes, you hit the space bar and you're presented with a
> > >prompt where you can specify different boot options.  I specified "boot
> > >-s" for single user mode.  In The Complete FreeBSD, it tells you to boot
> > >into single-user mode and run fsck on / by issuing: fsck -y /   I
> > >ran this on / and /dev/wd0s1a, respectively.  Then it tells you to mount
> > >/ by typing: mount -u /  I did this and it let me mount it.  Lastly, it
> > >says to mount /usr by typing: mount /usr It would let me mount this but
> > >only with read access.  I needed write access so that I could go into
> > >/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ and either remove or change the upsmond.sh file in
> > >there that was causing my system to hang.  I got a response from someone
> > >telling me to mount /usr by typing the following: mount -rwf /usr  This
> > >worked and I was able to edit upsmond.sh so that it was pointing to
> > >/dev/cuaa1 and not cuaa0.  This got my system booting.  I found out
> > >later that I could have successfully mounted /usr with r/w access if I
> > >would have first fsck'd it by issuing: fsck -y /usr (I probably should
> > >have done this for /var too)
> > >     I got my system booting again (Whew!) but still haven't figured out
> > >why /dev/cuaa0 causes problems.  I seems as if some kind of conflict is
> > >going on, maybe something else is using this device?  I haven't found
> > >the answer to this yet.  I got an email response back from APC, saying
> > >they did have an application that would work with FreeBSD but I would
> > >need to purchase their Simple UNIX Serial cable for $39.00 in order for
> > >it to work.  So, now I don't know if it's a device conflict or the cable
> > >but I doubt I'll shell out the money for a new cable.  Maybe my manager
> > >will let me order it and reimburse me?
> > >     I've always thought that cold reboot/shutdowns were death to UNIX
> > >systems, especially if you did it more than 5 or 6 times.  I've
> > >completely trashed my systems this way when I was using Red Hat 6.x and
> > >Caldera 2.x in the past.  Cold booted more than 5 times and got the
> > >dreaded "kernel panic" message and had to reinstall.  I ended up cold
> > >booting my FreeBSD system more than 12 times the last couple of days and
> > >it's still going!  8^)  So, the moral of this story?  FreeBSD is
> > >forgiving, you just need to tell it how to forgive you!  And...forgive
> > >me for such a long story... 8^}
> > >
> > >Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
> > >      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
>
>--
>
>     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
>      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
>
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 10:44:21 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 13:42:46 -0400
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Cc: Joe Warner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Newbie Learning Experience
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805110010.00b8d348@127.0.0.1>
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I'd think maybe you can submit it as a story for the september monthly
of daemon news.  IMHO this is the sort of thing daemon news needs.

Frank Pawlak wrote:
> 
> IMHO this is a great story.  Perhaps this deserves a daemon news spot with
> some HOWTO implications.
> 
> Regards,
> Frank
> 
> At 08:32 AM 8/5/2000 -0600, Joe Warner wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >    I've had a real learning experience with my FreeBSD (3.4) system at
> >work over the past couple of days and at the risk of making myself look
> >like an idiot, I felt it important enough to share.  Since I'm a newbie
> >and hope to help other newbies when facing similar situations, this
> >email is directed mainly at freebsd-newbies.  However, I also felt it
> >important enough to share with freebsd-advocacy because of how amazed I
> >am with the OS.  Instead of a little cartoon devil, maybe the mascot
> >should be the Energizer Bunny?  FreeBSD keeps going and going and
> >going... 8^)  Anyway, please bear with me.  This is probably going to be
> >pretty lengthy, so for those of you don't like to read or are
> >uninterested, just close this email and delete it now.  For the rest of
> >you, read on...
> >     When I came into work last Thursday morning, I noticed that my PC
> >(Compaq Deskpro 2000), running FreeBSD 3.4 was at the login prompt and
> >my WIN NT machine was at the boot up password.  I realized then that the
> >inevitable had happened....Power Outage!  Thinking that power
> >outages/cold reboots meant death to most UNIX systems, I hurried to
> >prevent this from happening again and hooked up an APC Smart-UPS 1000
> >that we had sitting in one of our storage closets.  Hooking it up to my
> >FreeBSD machine was easy enough.  I just plugged the power cord into a
> >receptacle and then plugged the power from the CPU and monitor into the
> >back of the UPS.  I finished by attaching the serial cable on the UPS to
> >the serial port on the back of the CPU (COM1) - There is only one serial
> >port available for Compaq Deskpro's.  After hooking it up, I realized
> >that I would need to install some software that could communicate with
> >the UPS through the serial line and allow me to do a graceful shutdown
> >in the event of power loss.  I went to APC's web site and though they
> >had their Powerchute software available for many commercial versions of
> >UNIX, I didn't see anything that was designed specifically for any of
> >the BSD's.  They even had a Linux version and I learned later that at
> >least one person was running this successfully under Linux emulation on
> >his FreeBSD 3.4 system.  I didn't want to run this under Linux emulation
> >if I didn't have to.  Later, I came across an application in the ports
> >collection called UPSD - 2.0 that seemed to be designed specifically to
> >work with the APC Smart-UPS models.  I loaded the 4th CD from the CD ROM
> >set and from /usr/ports/sysutils/upsd/ I typed make install and
> >installed it.  I noticed that there wasn't any documentation included
> >with this port, not even a man page.  It loaded only 2 files, the upsd
> >executable in /usr/local/sbin and the configuration file (upsd.conf) in
> >/usr/local/etc  I su'd to root and attempted to spawn the daemon by
> >cd'ng to /usr/local/sbin and typing # ./upsd  At this point, my whole
> >system locked up tighter than a drum!  I couldn't kill X and couldn't
> >switch to another terminal.  Nothing!  I had to cold-reboot my system
> >again!  After I booted back up, I looked at my logs and noticed a
> >message indicating there was a permission problem with /dev/cuaa0  This
> >device is owned by uucp and belongs to the dialer group.  I su'd to root
> >again and adjusted the permissions so that other users would have access
> >and then tried to execute the program again.  Same thing happened,
> >complete lockup!  At this point, I was pretty frustrated and none the
> >information I had read in my books or the answers I received from
> >posting to FreeBSD-Questions seemed to help.  I cd'd to
> >/usr/ports/sysutils/upsd and typed make deinstall and went home.
> >     When I came in Friday morning, I noticed an email from someone who
> >said they were using a port called UPSMON - 2.1.3 with an APC Smart-UPS
> >on their FreeBSD system without any problems.  This port wasn't on the
> >CD ROM set, so when I installed it, it had to fetch it from an ftp
> >site.  No problem, right?  Wrong!  I installed this port and decided to
> >reboot.  Big mistake!  Now, during boot-up, my system would just hang
> >at:
> >
> >local package initialization: Cannot open /dev/cuaa0: Permission denied
> >upsmond<---(this is where it would hang)
> >
> >     After hearing the voice of Ralph from the Simpsons in my head, going
> >Ha! Ha!.., I thought, now what do I do!  After going through all my
> >books and documentation and trying to boot into single-user mode, fixit
> >mode from the 2nd cd in the cd rom set and even from kernel.GENERIC, I
> >realized I wasn't getting anywhere.  My machine would always hang when
> >trying to launch the upsmond daemon during boot up.  As a last resort, I
> >posted to FreeBSD-Questions and got the answer I was looking for.  I was
> >told to go into single-user mode.  At the beginning of the boot-up
> >process, there is a ten second count down that tells you to either hit
> >enter or wait for the count down to finish for system boot-up.  Before
> >the counter finishes, you hit the space bar and you're presented with a
> >prompt where you can specify different boot options.  I specified "boot
> >-s" for single user mode.  In The Complete FreeBSD, it tells you to boot
> >into single-user mode and run fsck on / by issuing: fsck -y /   I
> >ran this on / and /dev/wd0s1a, respectively.  Then it tells you to mount
> >/ by typing: mount -u /  I did this and it let me mount it.  Lastly, it
> >says to mount /usr by typing: mount /usr It would let me mount this but
> >only with read access.  I needed write access so that I could go into
> >/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ and either remove or change the upsmond.sh file in
> >there that was causing my system to hang.  I got a response from someone
> >telling me to mount /usr by typing the following: mount -rwf /usr  This
> >worked and I was able to edit upsmond.sh so that it was pointing to
> >/dev/cuaa1 and not cuaa0.  This got my system booting.  I found out
> >later that I could have successfully mounted /usr with r/w access if I
> >would have first fsck'd it by issuing: fsck -y /usr (I probably should
> >have done this for /var too)
> >     I got my system booting again (Whew!) but still haven't figured out
> >why /dev/cuaa0 causes problems.  I seems as if some kind of conflict is
> >going on, maybe something else is using this device?  I haven't found
> >the answer to this yet.  I got an email response back from APC, saying
> >they did have an application that would work with FreeBSD but I would
> >need to purchase their Simple UNIX Serial cable for $39.00 in order for
> >it to work.  So, now I don't know if it's a device conflict or the cable
> >but I doubt I'll shell out the money for a new cable.  Maybe my manager
> >will let me order it and reimburse me?
> >     I've always thought that cold reboot/shutdowns were death to UNIX
> >systems, especially if you did it more than 5 or 6 times.  I've
> >completely trashed my systems this way when I was using Red Hat 6.x and
> >Caldera 2.x in the past.  Cold booted more than 5 times and got the
> >dreaded "kernel panic" message and had to reinstall.  I ended up cold
> >booting my FreeBSD system more than 12 times the last couple of days and
> >it's still going!  8^)  So, the moral of this story?  FreeBSD is
> >forgiving, you just need to tell it how to forgive you!  And...forgive
> >me for such a long story... 8^}
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >     FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
> >      ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message

-- 
Laurence Berland
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Windows 98: n.
        useless extension to a minor patch release for 
        32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 
        16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system 
        originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, 
        written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for
        1 bit of competition.
http://stuy.debate.net


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 11:47:57 2000
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From: Joe Warner 
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Frank Pawlak wrote:

    Me thinks you sell yourself too short.  I would touch it up a tad to

highlight the process, otherwise the length appears to be OK.  Am sure
that
someone can help with the link.  Just my $0.02

Frank

    And...Laurence Berland:

    I'd think maybe you can submit it as a story for the september
monthly
of daemon news.  IMHO this is the sort of thing daemon news needs.

    ...I respond:

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys!  8^)  I'll do my best to
touch it up a bit and see if Daemon News wants it.  I also plan to
compose a related article, with step by step instructions on what to do
when your system hangs and submit it to The FreeBSD Documentation
Project.

Thanks again,

Joe


--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!




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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 18: 2:44 2000
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From: "John M" 
To: 
Subject: Structure of an ISP
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:59:11 -0700
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Greetings,

I am looking for some fundamental information on setting up an ISP.  I have
searched the FAQ, and I am about to scan some O'Reilly titles, but a pointer
to some sources would greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 18:54:48 2000
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From: "Todd Martin" 
To: "John M" , 
References: <000a01bfff41$8a2b16a0$42adfe9e@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: Structure of an ISP
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:57:26 -0700
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John feel free to ask mea few questions if you like, I've started two of
them and built them from the ground up:

http://www.tycho.net
http://www.megapath.net

Take care.

-todd


----- Original Message -----
From: "John M" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 5:59 PM
Subject: Structure of an ISP


> Greetings,
>
> I am looking for some fundamental information on setting up an ISP.  I
have
> searched the FAQ, and I am about to scan some O'Reilly titles, but a
pointer
> to some sources would greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 18:54:55 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 21:54:50 -0400
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: installing SSH on 4.0
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 I have the full 4.0 four disk set and im wondering if I can grab ssh
from one of the CD's and if so how to do it.

    Thanks in advance,

        Mike F.


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 18:57:40 2000
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To: , 
References: 
Subject: Re: installing SSH on 4.0
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cd to /usr/ports/security/openssh
type make install
then cd to /usr/ports/security/rsaref
type make install

Your all done. This must of course be done as root. Additionally I had probs
with the 4.1 rsaref port but the one I downloaded from
http://www.freebsd.org/ports/index.html worked great.

-todd


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 6:54 PM
Subject: installing SSH on 4.0


> I have the full 4.0 four disk set and im wondering if I can grab ssh
> from one of the CD's and if so how to do it.
>
>     Thanks in advance,
>
>         Mike F.
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 21: 3:41 2000
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Subject: installing SSH on 4.0
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when trying to install ssh or open ssh from the ports doing a make install it always errors out with an error code 1. I think it might have to do with the server performing Nat that my CPU is on. Am I 
out of luck or is it possible that ssh can be barried in one of these cd's in the four disk set ?

    Thanks again in advance,

       Mike F.


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Aug  5 23:41:27 2000
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Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Linh Pham 
To: Laurence Berland 
Cc: Frank Pawlak ,
	Joe Warner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Newbie Learning Experience
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On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, Laurence Berland mumbled:

> I'd think maybe you can submit it as a story for the september monthly
> of daemon news.  IMHO this is the sort of thing daemon news needs.

I sent in a semi-HOWTO article on setting up FreeBSD 4.0 on a Compaq
iPaq and it was accepted... it's in this month's issue :)

You may want to take a look at my article as a quick reference... but
all you need to do is to break up your write-up into easy to follow
paragraphs, and you should be set.

// Linh Pham
// http://closedsrc.org



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