From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 18 21:50:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.safemail.com (ns2.safemail.com [204.89.219.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0ED1524F for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from woy@tru2life.com) Received: from ns4.safemail.com (ns4.safemail.com [204.89.219.4]) by ns2.safemail.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16593 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: "...william.o.yates..." Message-ID: <010001bf6240$edc1e700$04db59cc@ns4.safemail.com> To: Subject: subscribe Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:48:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe ...william.o.yates...owner...safemail.internet.services...tinker@safemail.com...bus.408.778.5570...3615.jackson.oaks.court...morgan. hill...california...united.states...95037... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 18 22:32:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from jason.argos.org (a1-3b058.neo.rr.com [24.93.181.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F5C14FB5 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@argos.org) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by jason.argos.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11098; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:31:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:31:37 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Nowlin To: Tim Tsai Cc: Chip Marshall , freebsd-small Subject: Re: PC/104 In-Reply-To: <20000114160203.A24225@futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > One additional difference is that PC/104 supports IRQ sharing (across > different devices on the bus). I don't remember the details something about impedance and pull-up/down> I've been kinda wondering about this for a while.... From everything I've been able to find, it's not the ISA bus itself that causes problems with sharing IRQ's, but it's the cheap cards we're so used to seeing everywhere that don't use open-collector drivers. I have successfully shared interrupts using old (bulky, lots of chips, sucks up lots of power) cards in the past, but the modern stuff hates it. Any input? mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 18 22:43:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68ABC14FF2 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA26053; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:43:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:43:35 -0600 From: Tim To: Mike Nowlin Cc: Chip Marshall , freebsd-small Subject: Re: PC/104 Message-ID: <20000119004334.D25200@futuresouth.com> References: <20000114160203.A24225@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG See appendix C of the PC/104 spec. on www.pc104.org. Also, you did not mention whether you are trying to share IRQs with devices on the same slot or across multiple slots. The former is fine. Tim On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:31:37AM -0500, Mike Nowlin wrote: > > > One additional difference is that PC/104 supports IRQ sharing (across > > different devices on the bus). I don't remember the details > something about impedance and pull-up/down> > > I've been kinda wondering about this for a while.... From everything I've > been able to find, it's not the ISA bus itself that causes problems with > sharing IRQ's, but it's the cheap cards we're so used to seeing everywhere > that don't use open-collector drivers. I have successfully shared > interrupts using old (bulky, lots of chips, sucks up lots of power) cards > in the past, but the modern stuff hates it. > > Any input? > > mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 19 10:48: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1161520D for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:47:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07055; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:45:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001191845.TAA07055@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: proposed picobsd changes... To: small@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:45:59 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a set of changes to picobsd scripts etc which i will hopefully commit in the next days. See http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/pico.000119.patch for a detailed patch (which is not very long): The main changes are as follows: + remove the forth/ stuff, and greatly simplify the loader scripts as Greg Lehey did for 4.0. This saves quite a bit of room from the floppy image. + a small change to rc scripts etc so you can copy things to a hard disk or so and enjoy the higher boot speed. + make the "build" script look for configuration parameters (e.g. floppy sizes etc) in ../*/PICOBSD i.e. the kernel config file. This makes it simpler to add new floppy types without having to play with 'custom' directory, and removes parameters from the build script. The kernel config file is not the best place to do this but i wanted to avoid having even more config files around. If someone can suggest a better place I will be happy to follow good suggestions. Please have a look at the diffs and see if you like them. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 19 11:59:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeby.mesanet.com (pm3-3-33.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7E314E26 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pcw@mesanet.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freeby.mesanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05396 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:59:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: freebsd-small Subject: Re: PC/104 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Mike Nowlin wrote: > > > One additional difference is that PC/104 supports IRQ sharing (across > > different devices on the bus). I don't remember the details > something about impedance and pull-up/down> > > I've been kinda wondering about this for a while.... From everything I've > been able to find, it's not the ISA bus itself that causes problems with > sharing IRQ's, but it's the cheap cards we're so used to seeing everywhere > that don't use open-collector drivers. I have successfully shared > interrupts using old (bulky, lots of chips, sucks up lots of power) cards > in the past, but the modern stuff hates it. > > Any input? > > mike Actuallly open collector does you no good because IBM in their great wisdom made the IRQ polarity active high (and edge triggered to boot). If you put a pull-down on the IRQ bus (contrary to standard practice) you can use an "open source" driver easily done in a PAL. We do this on some of our PC/104 cards but basically its M^2 logic... > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 19 23:48:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE081533E; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10306; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:48:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001200748.IAA10306@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: smaller loader for picobsd... To: small@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:48:45 +0100 (CET) Cc: msmith@freebsd.org, grog@freebsd.org, abial@freebsd.org, dwhite@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, the attached patch to /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/loader/Makefile will let us save some 20KB on /boot/loader.gz to be installed on PicoBSD floppies. The question to Mike or other release gurus is how to request the compilation of "loader" without FICL support from the picobsd Makefile/build scripts. cheers luigi For the curious, this is what we have now: # ls -l boot total 61 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 53650 Jan 20 07:30 loader -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 40 Jan 20 07:30 loader.rc prova# diff -ubwr Makefile.34R Makefile --- Makefile.34R Sun Aug 29 18:21:06 1999 +++ Makefile Thu Jan 20 08:18:15 2000 @@ -16,15 +16,6 @@ HAVE_PNP= yes HAVE_ISABUS= yes -# Enable BootForth -BOOT_FORTH= yes -CFLAGS+= -DBOOT_FORTH -I${.CURDIR}/../../ficl -.if exists(${.OBJDIR}/../../ficl/libficl.a) -LIBFICL= ${.OBJDIR}/../../ficl/libficl.a -.else -LIBFICL= ${.CURDIR}/../../ficl/libficl.a -.endif - # Always add MI sources .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../common .include <${.CURDIR}/../../common/Makefile.inc> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 20 6:56: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8AF14F14 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:55:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (m15.chn.vsnl.net.in [202.54.43.218] (may be forged)) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA05987; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:25:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00643; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:35:26 +0530 (IST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:35:26 +0530 From: Greg Lehey To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: proposed picobsd changes... Message-ID: <20000120173526.E533@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <200001191845.TAA07055@info.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001191845.TAA07055@info.iet.unipi.it>; from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it on Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 07:45:59PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 19 January 2000 at 19:45:59 +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > I have a set of changes to picobsd scripts etc which i will > hopefully commit in the next days. > > See http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/pico.000119.patch > for a detailed patch (which is not very long): > > The main changes are as follows: > > + remove the forth/ stuff, and greatly simplify the loader > scripts as Greg Lehey did for 4.0. This saves quite a bit of > room from the floppy image. > > + a small change to rc scripts etc so you can copy things to > a hard disk or so and enjoy the higher boot speed. > > + make the "build" script look for configuration parameters > (e.g. floppy sizes etc) in ../*/PICOBSD i.e. the kernel > config file. This makes it simpler to add new floppy types > without having to play with 'custom' directory, and removes > parameters from the build script. > > The kernel config file is not the best place to do this but > i wanted to avoid having even more config files around. If > someone can suggest a better place I will be happy to follow > good suggestions. > > Please have a look at the diffs and see if you like them. I won't have time to look at the changes, but they sound good. How does this match the feature freeze? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 20 7:32: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0B314DB4 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11651; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:11:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001201511.QAA11651@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: proposed picobsd changes... In-Reply-To: <20000120173526.E533@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jan 20, 2000 05:35:26 pm" To: Greg Lehey Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:11:01 +0100 (CET) Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The main changes are as follows: and a couple more: + try to globalize things such as mfs.mtree and Makefile.mfs so that most types can share the same thing. + gzip files in /etc on the boot floppy. This requires minigzip to be included in the crunched image, but overall you save space and have gzip available. > > Please have a look at the diffs and see if you like them. > > I won't have time to look at the changes, but they sound good. How > does this match the feature freeze? Well with appropriate permission this would go into -stable, waiting for some volunteer to merge them into -current with your changes. The two versions are already divergent after your changes to -current, and in a sense this is partly an MFC e.g. the loader.rc changes, Makefile.mfs relocation, and other things are inspired by your work in -current. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 20 21:43: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7D4153C3 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:43:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com ([203.197.137.151]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06745 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:08:20 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00543 for small@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:23:20 +0530 (IST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:22:50 +0530 From: Greg Lehey To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: proposed picobsd changes... Message-ID: <20000121102250.B481@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <20000120173526.E533@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <200001201511.QAA11651@info.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001201511.QAA11651@info.iet.unipi.it>; from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it on Thu, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:11:01PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 20 January 2000 at 16:11:01 +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: >>> The main changes are as follows: > > and a couple more: > + try to globalize things such as mfs.mtree and Makefile.mfs > so that most types can share the same thing. > > + gzip files in /etc on the boot floppy. This requires minigzip > to be included in the crunched image, but overall you save > space and have gzip available. > >>> Please have a look at the diffs and see if you like them. >> >> I won't have time to look at the changes, but they sound good. How >> does this match the feature freeze? > > Well with appropriate permission this would go into -stable, waiting > for some volunteer to merge them into -current with your changes. Hmm. This rather violates the idea of putting things into -CURRENT first. Wouldn't it make more sense to merge this with my stuff in -CURRENT (once the feature freeze is over) and then MFC the whole mess to -STABLE? > The two versions are already divergent after your changes to > -current, How did that happen? This suggests that somebody put something into -STABLE without putting it into -CURRENT. Or do you just mean that they're different? > and in a sense this is partly an MFC e.g. the loader.rc changes, > Makefile.mfs relocation, and other things are inspired by your work > in -current. Given the feature freeze, and the fact that I'm in India, how about putting this off by a week until I'm back home, and I'll take a look at it? But don't feel obliged: feel free to improve on what I did in -CURRENT. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 4:39:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0E815229; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 04:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 43D5E2DC0A; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:39:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 870757811; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:39:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E3910E10; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:39:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:39:14 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proposed picobsd changes... In-Reply-To: <200001191845.TAA07055@info.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I found a piece of code on my old PC, that could be useful: it's called SASH (stand-alone shell), and contains a bare-bones shell (or rather, a CLI) and about 20+ common commands built-in (ed, tar, gzip, mount, cp, rm, ln, mknod, grep, dd, chmod/own/grp ....). Most of it compiles cleanly, although it was clearly written with Linux in mind :-). I think this could be interesting addition to some types of floppies, and perhaps to standard fixit floppy, instead of standard full-blown programs. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 8: 6:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from amon.u-strasbg.fr (amon.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.200.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2DE15143 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hhubert@ipcms.u-strasbg.fr) Received: from euler.u-strasbg.fr (euler.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.54.111]) by amon.u-strasbg.fr (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA29234 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:06:02 +0100 (MET) Received: by ipcms.u-strasbg.fr via send-mail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:06:00 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:06:00 +0100 (CET) From: hhubert@ipcms.u-strasbg.fr (Hubert Hollender) To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-small To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 13:51:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from achtung.com (mercury.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C79F71559E for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albert@achtung.com) Received: from achtung.com ([207.13.193.130]) by achtung.com ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:51:13 -0600 Message-ID: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:55:27 -0800 From: Albert Yang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc To: small@freebsd.org Subject: New approach to picobsd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey there fellow Picobsd'ers! I like the fact that I'm seeing development on picobsd again. I know, we all have that things called "a job" that takes up most of our time, but I think we can keep picobsd alive. My suggestion though was that there is currently no clear outline (as far as I can tell) of the structure and development of picobsd. What I mean is, actually making this into a well defined project instead of a loosely held patch kit. The thing I was thinking about most, was defining what "flavors" of picobsd should have what functionality. Documentation is sparce, and I would like that to change as well. You people are obviously more technical than I am, and as much as I would love to help on the technical side, I'm not that great of a programmer, I do webpages and graphics design, but I want to see this thing work. I'm more business oriented and so I would not mind at all keeping a list of what feature requests are suggested, what feature designs are suggested, improvements, patches etc... I have my own webpage if that is what it takes to keep this thing cranking. For example, we say that the networking version needs natd, ssh, etc.. and we list out what consitutes a network version, and the same for the dialup etc.. Trinux has taken a modular approach to all this. I don't think that is neccessary, but at the same time, a more well grouped development effort might make it better with quicker turnaround time. It's just a thought, and again, if you guys need some pretty looking website, let me know, I can cough that up. BSD currently doesn't recognize my modem, and so if I wanted to use the ppp picobsd, then I have to use one of my old 28.8 ones. Ouch. Does the network version support DSL? Albert. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 18:29:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5694B15656 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id DA0762DC07; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:29:02 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 40E5F7811; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC5A10E10 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:25:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:25:22 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: SASH port available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I ported SASH 2.1 (Stand-alone SHell) to FreeBSD. It's a nice combination of bare-bones shell and a dozen or so most useful unix commands. It would be a good inclusion to picobsd systems that are intended to run on a very limited hardware. Compared to what we can achieve with crunchgen and standard FreeBSD commands, it's of course more limited, but _so_ much smaller... :) You can download the code from: http://www.freebsd.org/~abial/sash-fbsd.tgz PS. If someone is more familiar with creating a proper port to include in our Ports collection, please don't hesitate to do it... :-) Just let us know so that we avoid duplication of effort. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 18:41:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from p.wl.vg (209-9-69-194.sdsl.cais.net [209.9.69.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BA815216 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patrick@whetstonelogic.com) Received: from whetstonelogic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p.wl.vg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA46214; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:41:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from patrick@whetstonelogic.com) From: patrick@whetstonelogic.com Message-Id: <200001220241.VAA46214@p.wl.vg> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:41:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: SASH port available To: abial@webgiro.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22 Jan, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Hi, > > I ported SASH 2.1 (Stand-alone SHell) to FreeBSD. It's a nice combination > of bare-bones shell and a dozen or so most useful unix commands. It would > be a good inclusion to picobsd systems that are intended to run on a very > limited hardware. > > Compared to what we can achieve with crunchgen and standard FreeBSD > commands, it's of course more limited, but _so_ much smaller... :) > > You can download the code from: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~abial/sash-fbsd.tgz > > PS. If someone is more familiar with creating a proper port to include in > our Ports collection, please don't hesitate to do it... :-) Just let us > know so that we avoid duplication of effort. > > Andrzej Bialecki I'll put together a port tonight on it. Do you want to name your tarball sash-fbsd21.tar.gz? It'll make the port conform better to the port standards. Any copyright issues with David Bell (the author)? He doesn't have a license included in this one. Also, does it have to install into /bin for picobsd? Or can we use whatever the port variable ${PREFIX} is set to? Patrick ---------- Patrick Gardella patrick@whetstonelogic.com VP-Technology patrick@freebsd.org Whetstone Logic, Inc. This space intentionally left blank. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 21 19: 4:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2DD156E7 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:04:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 1B0D12DC0A; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:04:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 158847811; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:01:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1025810E10; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:01:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:01:20 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: patrick@whetstonelogic.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SASH port available In-Reply-To: <200001220241.VAA46214@p.wl.vg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 patrick@whetstonelogic.com wrote: > I'll put together a port tonight on it. Thanks a million! > Do you want to name your tarball sash-fbsd21.tar.gz? It'll make the > port conform better to the port standards. Sure, makes sense. > > Any copyright issues with David Bell (the author)? He doesn't have a > license included in this one. The license is included in each source file. It's less restrictive than BSD, but compatible with it. It's NOT a GPL. > > Also, does it have to install into /bin for picobsd? Or can we use > whatever the port variable ${PREFIX} is set to? I didn't notice that... In case of installing it on normal system, installing it anywhere else than on root partition defeats its purpose... So, I guess we want $PREFIX, and a comment for the user to think a bit about setting it to something different than the default. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 22 18: 3:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.pair.com (relay1.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D976B14CBA for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjent@rjent.pair.com) Received: (qmail 8603 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 02:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO isz.dev) (204.184.227.3) by relay1.pair.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:02:00 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 204.184.227.3 From: rjent@rjent.pair.com Reply-To: rjent@rjent.pair.com Organization: RJ Ent To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dialin Server?'s and Equinox SST Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:24:13 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00012219502303.01082@isz.dev> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I am wanting to replace an existing dialin box with picoBSD. Questions: --------- 1.) Can I run the picoBSD dialin box with no hard drive for an equinox sst modem pool (16 isa modems)? 2.) If the box has no HD where would be the best place to keep the passwd and master.passwd? Thoughts welcome. -- RJ Ent. -- http://www.rjent.pair.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 22 21:55:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72C1150C7 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:55:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j39.klt31.jaring.my [161.142.169.233]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11579; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:24:39 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00419; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:55:39 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:55:38 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Albert Yang Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com>; from albert@achtung.com on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:55:27PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 21 January 2000 at 13:55:27 -0800, Albert Yang wrote: > Hey there fellow Picobsd'ers! > > I like the fact that I'm seeing development on picobsd again. I know, > we all have that things called "a job" that takes up most of our time, > but I think we can keep picobsd alive. > > My suggestion though was that there is currently no clear outline > (as far as I can tell) of the structure and development of picobsd. > What I mean is, actually making this into a well defined project > instead of a loosely held patch kit. There's a good reason for this. I'll discuss further down. > The thing I was thinking about most, was defining what "flavors" of > picobsd should have what functionality. Documentation is sparce, > and I would like that to change as well. I put in a man page recently; at the moment it's only in -CURRENT. > You people are obviously more technical than I am, and as much as I > would love to help on the technical side, I'm not that great of a > programmer, I do webpages and graphics design, but I want to see > this thing work. You can certainly help if you can give us good directions. My last update to PicoBSD based on a particular need from a customer, but at the same time I tried to make it as general as possible. In particular, I put all the functionality of the fixit disk in the configuration, as well as some things which didn't fit on fixit. The real issue is: do we want a one-disk PicoBSD or a two-disk PicoBSD (in fact, it's one-disk or multi-disk)? One disk is becoming increasingly difficult to manage; as Andrzej pointed out, he has not been able to get things to work on -CURRENT. I think we could create a *really* minimal -CURRENT version if we omitted all hard disk support, but the direction is clear: the kernel is getting bigger, and the feasibility of getting both a kernel and a file system on one floppy is diminishing. I think the answer here is: we want both, which is what we currently have. If we have only one disk, space is *very* tight, and it's likely that everybody will need his own configuration. If we have two disks, things look a whole lot better. The version I have still has space. Jordan Hubbard has asked for nethack, but possibly there would still be space after that for things that might interest you; but you need to define them. The way the current 2 disk configuration works, you can have as many floppies as you like. The first one boots and asks you to insert additional floppies. You can stop whenever you want, but obviously the more you read in, the more functionality you have. > I'm more business oriented and so I would not mind at all keeping a > list of what feature requests are suggested, what feature designs > are suggested, improvements, patches etc... I have my own webpage if > that is what it takes to keep this thing cranking. Andrzej has a web page on www.FreeBSD.org. It's not well linked; we need to attend to that (Wolfram, are you listening?). Thanks for the offer, but we've found in the past that URLs starting with www.FreeBSD.org are easier for most people to find. > For example, we say that the networking version needs natd, ssh, etc.. > and we list out what consitutes a network version, and the same for the > dialup etc.. I can't even recall how much of this is in the current /custom subdirectory. Certainly I agree that ssh should be in there; natd is more the sort of thing you would want to run on a server, which might then be allowed to have its own disk. On the other hand, I frequently travel (I'm currently in the air between India and Singapore) and I can recognize the advantage of being able to hijack some machine somewhere and use it to connect to the net without overwriting its disk. > Trinux has taken a modular approach to all this. I don't think that > is neccessary, but at the same time, a more well grouped development > effort might make it better with quicker turnaround time. We have a modular approach, too. It's so modular that it looks completely unstructured :-) You go into the crunch and crunch2 directories and choose your programs. > It's just a thought, and again, if you guys need some pretty looking > website, let me know, I can cough that up. > > BSD currently doesn't recognize my modem, and so if I wanted to use the > ppp picobsd, then I have to use one of my old 28.8 ones. Ouch. Does > the network version support DSL? I think that depends on which version you use. My understanding is that DSL is an Ethernet interface, so you don't even need ppp. If you're using the custom version and having trouble, I'd be interested in knowing what problems you're seeing. But don't confuse interest with a commitment to fix it :-) In summary: what else do we need in PicoBSD? Do we need to do it in one disk? Otherwise, what is a good base 2-disk solution? And if that isn't enough, what could be on the third disk? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message