From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 1:56: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0341F1507B for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from famzon@bigfoot.com) Received: from w95 (wdcax4-201.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.149.201]) by mail02.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10306 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:55:49 +1100 Message-ID: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au> Reply-To: "Andrew Hannam" From: "Andrew Hannam" To: Subject: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:53:14 +1000 Organization: FamZon Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Andrew Hannam" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Do we need to do it in one disk? The answer is a resounding "YES" for as long as possible. COMMENTS BELOW ... There are some major disadvantages to two disks. Besides the floppy swapping task - the most major is that you can't put the floppy in the machine and then just leave it there and have it handle power outages. That is, it loses its advantage of being able to be used in unattended situations. A two disk system is not a bad idea though (for absolutely feature packed systems). Some suggestions that may help ... 1/ Use some of the larger floppy formats - for example a 1.72M format of the standard 1.44M floppy disk. 2/ Have the one disk/two disk question an option in the build with the one disk version leaving out less important stuff such as all the README's and command help. 3/ Get rid of some of the other junk in there currently. 4/ Some space can be saved by doing a strip --remove-section .note --remove-section .comment on the crunch (as is done on the kernel). 5/ Clean up the booting system and the rc files. (I believe some of this has been done in -current) 6/ Define a kernel option (such as ALLQUIET) that allows you to compile the kernel without lots of its current text (and other less important code). This also has advantages for other reasons in a commercial situation. 7/ "Tune" the kernel by removing some hardware support and thus create more specific versions for different hardware sets. As an example of what can be done with a little cleanup, I have created a custom version (based on V3.3 stable admittedly) with ... named ppp with nat support web server complete set of HTML configuration pages and cgi's for named, ppp, nat, and general network setup complete with graphical backgrounds and buttons. These pages control every aspect of the system except for the initial hardware setup. A custom graphical hardware configuration system added in the kernel Support for EVERY ethernet card supported by FreeBSD Standard shell (ash) All the standard networking tools such as ifconfig, route, vm, ns etc etc etc A number of shell scripts that use dialog (full screen text boxes, menus etc) I have used only tricks 3, 4 and 5 from above to achieve this. I have some space left on the system and hope to add a DHCP server as well. If I run out of space I may need to try some of the other tricks listed above. All this still runs in 8M RAM on a 386SX running at 16MHz. I don't think it will run in less than 8M (although I haven't tried) as named is such a memory hog. (PS. Does anyone have a tiny version of named or dialog ?) A lot can still be done ! From my investigations it has become apparent to me that the major cause of bloat has been the lack of a good system configurator (which I have solved for my floppy using a web server and shell script based cgi's). I believe the unified configuration project could be the long term solution to this problem. With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and more. The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit system. Some of these changes I have made I believe could be quite useful to the larger PICOBSD community and so I will be posting back some of my changes soon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 2:20:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C871F15056 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 02:20:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id KAA67343; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:20:43 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:16:38 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com>; from albert@achtung.com on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:55:27PM -0800 <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:16:37 +0000 To: Greg Lehey From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Cc: Albert Yang , small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 14:55 +0800 22/1/00, Greg Lehey wrote: >[...] >In summary: what else do we need in PicoBSD? Do we need to do it in >one disk? A one-disk PicoBSD is absolutely required for use in unattended situations. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 15: 9:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A3014BF2; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:09:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id B53F92DC07; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:09:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E70227811; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:09:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DF610E10; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:09:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:09:43 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Andrew Hannam Cc: small@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Andrew Hannam wrote: > > Do we need to do it in one disk? > The answer is a resounding "YES" for as long as possible. [lots of good suggestions] > >From my investigations it has become apparent to me that the major cause of > bloat has been the lack of a good system configurator (which I have solved > for my floppy using a web server and shell script based cgi's). I believe > the unified configuration project could be the long term solution to this > problem. Unfotunately, the UCI project is nothing more than the document, and even this is outdated. OTOH, I still suspect that Whistle used something similar in concept for their InterJets. :-) > With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and more. > The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit system. A couple of general thoughts: * current method of building: the way we do it right now, with crunchgen, is relatively simple as long as you use system programs with well-formed Makefiles and consistent build process. But even here there are a couple of tough cases, to say nothing about what happens if you try to incorporate some external utility. Also, this method doesn't allow for any modularity (adding/removing programs without the need to rebuild everything from sources). If we can come up with some method of modularizing it (similar to KLD modules in binary form that you can load/unload from various media), then the problem of one/two/many floppies will be much less acute - you'll simply take everything from PicoBSD distro, and using cp/rm you adjust the set of programs you want to have on the floppy. No need for fancy configurator here, either, at least for the beginning. But this requires some clear path for how to build external utilities (e.g. from ports) so that they work in this model. I don't have any clear picture how to do this. Last time I tried using dynamic linking instead of static, it took so much more space that I gave up immediately. Also, I didn't know how to minimize the set of symbols from standard shared libraries to contain only those referenced by loaded programs - if you don't do it, you need to use full standard libs which are _big_. OTOH, if you strip them according to what you use in basic setup, and if you want to add other program, which you build linking against normal libraries, you can end up with missing symbols when you use stripped down versions of libs. Then you would have to have a method for adding needed symbols again to the libs... messy, messy.. Any suggestions? * the step that we can already take is to make use of kernel modules, instead of compiling everything into the kernel statically. Many ethernet drivers can now be loaded on demand. We could include them on another, "modules" floppy, freeing some space from the base floppies which would contain the smallest subset of drivers possible. Then, you could download the "base" floppy, "drivers" and combine them together to match your hardware, without recompiling the whole stuff (which I see as a big obstacle in using picobsd). BTW, I think this is something to be considered for installation floppy as well. Jordan, are you listening? * incorporating more small, useful tools: recently I ported SASH which will be great addition for setups like "router" floppy. * learning from experience of other teams (various one- or more floppy Linux projects - LRP, Trinux etc...). Frankly, I didn't have that much time to look at them recently, and they also can have some good ideas. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 20:52:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CBE1582D; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:52:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12833; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:21:50 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02764; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:16:24 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:16:24 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) Message-ID: <20000124121624.C2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from abial@webgiro.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:09:43AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 0:09:43 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Andrew Hannam wrote: > >>> Do we need to do it in one disk? >> The answer is a resounding "YES" for as long as possible. > > [lots of good suggestions] > >> With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and more. >> The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit system. > > A couple of general thoughts: > > * current method of building: the way we do it right now, with crunchgen, > is relatively simple as long as you use system programs with well-formed > Makefiles and consistent build process. But even here there are a couple > of tough cases, Indeed. I don't know how easy it would be to include ports in the framework, for example. > to say nothing about what happens if you try to incorporate some > external utility. Also, this method doesn't allow for any modularity > (adding/removing programs without the need to rebuild everything > from sources). I don't understand this. You need to modify crunch.conf, but once you have done that, you just run make again, and it only builds the necessary files. > But this requires some clear path for how to build external utilities > (e.g. from ports) so that they work in this model. > > I don't have any clear picture how to do this. Last time I tried using > dynamic linking instead of static, it took so much more space that I gave > up immediately. Also, I didn't know how to minimize the set of symbols > from standard shared libraries to contain only those referenced by loaded > programs - if you don't do it, you need to use full standard libs which > are _big_. Is that correct? I thought crunch only included those library functions which were actually referenced, directly or indirectly, by the objects you included. But I haven't looked at the process that carefully. > * the step that we can already take is to make use of kernel modules, > instead of compiling everything into the kernel statically. Many ethernet > drivers can now be loaded on demand. We could include them on another, > "modules" floppy, freeing some space from the base floppies which would > contain the smallest subset of drivers possible. Then, you could download > the "base" floppy, "drivers" and combine them together to match your > hardware, without recompiling the whole stuff (which I see as a big > obstacle in using picobsd). This is a nice idea conceptually, but like with dynamic linking, the result is bound to be bigger. > BTW, I think this is something to be considered for installation > floppy as well. Jordan, are you listening? Agreed. > * incorporating more small, useful tools: recently I ported SASH which > will be great addition for setups like "router" floppy. I think SASH might have great potential in the "first or only" disk. It would be really nice to have a single disk which could be extended by further disks if you wanted. That would pave the way to a single "do it all" PicoBSD approach. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 20:55:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E80B157A4 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12836; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:22:11 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02741; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:01:10 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:01:10 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrew Hannam Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) Message-ID: <20000124120109.B2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au>; from famzon@bigfoot.com on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 07:53:14PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Sunday, 23 January 2000 at 19:53:14 +1000, Andrew Hannam wrote: >> Do we need to do it in one disk? > The answer is a resounding "YES" for as long as possible. > > COMMENTS BELOW ... > > There are some major disadvantages to two disks. Besides the floppy swapping > task - the most major is that you can't put the floppy in the machine and > then just leave it there and have it handle power outages. > > That is, it loses its advantage of being able to be used in unattended > situations. > > A two disk system is not a bad idea though (for absolutely feature packed > systems). > > Some suggestions that may help ... > > 1/ Use some of the larger floppy formats - for example a 1.72M format of the > standard 1.44M floppy disk. Now that's a very good idea. > 2/ Have the one disk/two disk question an option in the build with > the one disk version leaving out less important stuff such as all > the README's and command help. This is already an option. In combination with (1) it might make for a reasonable one-disk solution and a more feature-packed two-disk solution. > 3/ Get rid of some of the other junk in there currently. I've done that already :-) I had to. > 7/ "Tune" the kernel by removing some hardware support and thus create more > specific versions for different hardware sets. That too. > As an example of what can be done with a little cleanup, > I have created a custom version (based on V3.3 stable admittedly) with ... > named > ppp with nat support > web server > > complete set of HTML configuration pages and cgi's for named, > ppp, nat, and general network setup complete with graphical > backgrounds and buttons. These pages control every aspect of > the system except for the initial hardware setup. > > A custom graphical hardware configuration system added in the kernel > Support for EVERY ethernet card supported by FreeBSD > Standard shell (ash) > All the standard networking tools such as ifconfig, route, vm, > ns etc etc etc > A number of shell scripts that use dialog (full screen text boxes, menus > etc) > > I have used only tricks 3, 4 and 5 from above to achieve this. I have some > space left on the system and hope to add a DHCP server as well. If I run out > of space I may need to try some of the other tricks listed above. > All this still runs in 8M RAM on a 386SX running at 16MHz. I don't think it > will run in less than 8M (although I haven't tried) as named is such a > memory hog. I don't believe that the named problems relate to the code. What you're thinking of is the size that the process image can assume, and that depends on how much work it does. > (PS. Does anyone have a tiny version of named or dialog ?) It would still use a lot of cache. > A lot can still be done ! Feel like merging this stuff with the /custom config in -CURRENT? > From my investigations it has become apparent to me that the major > cause of bloat has been the lack of a good system configurator > (which I have solved for my floppy using a web server and shell > script based cgi's). I believe the unified configuration project > could be the long term solution to this problem. You need to describe this in more detail. I've never seen a web approach credited with reducing bloat. > With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and > more. The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit > system. Hmm. That approach would certainly meet with a lot of resistance, from me amongst other people. Sure, I got rid of ee (I found space for vi :-), but I would hate to have to use a web browser for normal functionality. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 23 21:19:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from cotdazr.org (cotdazr.org [209.239.229.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F0D2B157A3 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from efb@cotdazr.org) Received: (qmail 5906 invoked by uid 10); 24 Jan 2000 05:19:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:19:27 -0800 From: Everett F Batey To: Greg Lehey Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000123211927.B5810@cotdazr.org> Reply-To: efb@cotdazr.org References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:55:38PM +0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gcpacix.cotdazr.org 2.2.8-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE X-Tele: +1 805 985.3146 / 805 340.6471 Pg 805 655.2017 X-URL: http://www.cotdazr.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Small List and Greg, Hope I cut in enough of the thread that you find relevance in the following comments. Been playing at home and at work with Unix since early ARPA.Net days. And as public pressures to move to cripples like MSDog get worse .. I try to spend more time showing my customers what they can know out with a Unix box. When we can take a one CD / 2 to five CD set and get a standalone Unix to run in RAM or and Floppy on any lap top, desktop, broken tactical desktop and solve some big problem, I have a convert for life. If the PicoBSD effort comes to where I can do better than a RedHat CD and use small FreeBSD building form one or two floppies, adding the device support to make any Intel based host do the tasks like bring up a firewall, router, sniffer, commserver or any of the other middle to heavy weight Unix tasks that is pretty great value. The best of it comes when any Windows appliance operator can do the same thing or at least come close. My dimes worth of wish listing. BW /Everett/ Boy, I like to deliver Unix (like free) to the fleet. On Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:55:38PM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 21 January 2000 at 13:55:27 -0800, Albert Yang wrote: > > Hey there fellow Picobsd'ers! > > I like the fact that I'm seeing development on picobsd again. I know, > > What I mean is, actually making this into a well defined project > > instead of a loosely held patch kit. > > > The thing I was thinking about most, was defining what "flavors" of > > picobsd should have what functionality. Documentation is sparce, > > You can certainly help if you can give us good directions. My last > update to PicoBSD based on a particular need from a customer, but at -- + http://www.vhwy.com efb@vhwy.com WA6CRE@arrl.net http://www.cotdazr.org + + Short Voice Text Message: 888 522-VHWY (8499) or Beep: 805.655.2017 + + Unix BSD, Sun, HP SCO Linux Security Cisco Routing DataFellows QMail DNS + To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 0:32:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C4815111; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA38129; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:15:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001240815.JAA38129@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <20000124121624.C2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jan 24, 2000 12:16:24 pm" To: Greg Lehey Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:15:35 +0100 (CET) Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > * current method of building: the way we do it right now, with crunchgen, ... > Indeed. I don't know how easy it would be to include ports in the > framework, for example. Some ports do work though, and for others i think we need some extensions to crunchgen eg to tell it we need to use a different Makefil > > * incorporating more small, useful tools: recently I ported SASH which > > will be great addition for setups like "router" floppy. > > I think SASH might have great potential in the "first or only" disk. > It would be really nice to have a single disk which could be extended > by further disks if you wanted. That would pave the way to a single > "do it all" PicoBSD approach. yesterday i tried to determine how much room is taken by the various commands on the floppy image (this means after compression). Most small commands end up taking a fraction of a 4KB block (i.e. the "df" output with and without those commands is the same): df, vm, cat, test, msg, swapon, echo, hostname, ln, w, reboot, swapon, du, tail, tee, vnconfig, arp, passwd, mount_nfs, traceroute, pwd_mkdb, dev_mkdb, dev_mkdb, minigzip (apparently, maybe zlib is already in by some other reason) The shell takes (compressed) 36KB. "ee" takes 32KB. So i think all in all sash does not give that much savings over the standard set of commands. We definitely need a small "vi" clone... cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 0:44:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7DEB14C06; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:44:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id C09A02DC09; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:44:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5CCA37811; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:41:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A28B10E10; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:41:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:41:41 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Greg Lehey Cc: Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <20000124121624.C2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 0:09:43 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Andrew Hannam wrote: > > > >>> Do we need to do it in one disk? > >> The answer is a resounding "YES" for as long as possible. > > > > [lots of good suggestions] > > > >> With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and more. > >> The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit system. > > > > A couple of general thoughts: > > > > * current method of building: the way we do it right now, with crunchgen, > > is relatively simple as long as you use system programs with well-formed > > Makefiles and consistent build process. But even here there are a couple > > of tough cases, > > Indeed. I don't know how easy it would be to include ports in the > framework, for example. Sometimes it's relatively easy, like with ssh. But try to do it with e.g. lynx, and you'll see what I mean. > > > to say nothing about what happens if you try to incorporate some > > external utility. Also, this method doesn't allow for any modularity > > (adding/removing programs without the need to rebuild everything > > from sources). > > I don't understand this. You need to modify crunch.conf, but once you > have done that, you just run make again, and it only builds the > necessary files. Yes, yes. My point was, that you have to have the full source tree each time you want to change something. wouldn't it be nice if the only things required to change the set of programs were an archive with prebuilt lots of utilities, from which you select only those components that are interesting, and simply copy the binaries to the floppy. No need to mess up with any source code. > > > But this requires some clear path for how to build external utilities > > (e.g. from ports) so that they work in this model. > > > > I don't have any clear picture how to do this. Last time I tried using > > dynamic linking instead of static, it took so much more space that I gave > > up immediately. Also, I didn't know how to minimize the set of symbols > > from standard shared libraries to contain only those referenced by loaded > > programs - if you don't do it, you need to use full standard libs which > > are _big_. > > Is that correct? I thought crunch only included those library > functions which were actually referenced, directly or indirectly, by > the objects you included. But I haven't looked at the process that > carefully. Yes, that's the case today. Notice, that I was speaking of using dynamic linking, instead of static, as we do it today. > > * the step that we can already take is to make use of kernel modules, > > instead of compiling everything into the kernel statically. Many ethernet > > drivers can now be loaded on demand. We could include them on another, > > "modules" floppy, freeing some space from the base floppies which would > > contain the smallest subset of drivers possible. Then, you could download > > the "base" floppy, "drivers" and combine them together to match your > > hardware, without recompiling the whole stuff (which I see as a big > > obstacle in using picobsd). > > This is a nice idea conceptually, but like with dynamic linking, the > result is bound to be bigger. Erhm.. Not really. I think you're missing my point: the end result (which is a floppy that you will be able to boot your machine and use its hardware), instead of containing everything for everyone, can contain only the modules that you really need. You can do it yourself, e.g. by booting a minimal floppy which is able only to mount another floppy, from which you just copy the modules you will need to the original startup disk. How's that bigger than one-size-fits-all floppy we have today? > > BTW, I think this is something to be considered for installation > > floppy as well. Jordan, are you listening? > > Agreed. > > > * incorporating more small, useful tools: recently I ported SASH which > > will be great addition for setups like "router" floppy. > > I think SASH might have great potential in the "first or only" disk. > It would be really nice to have a single disk which could be extended > by further disks if you wanted. That would pave the way to a single > "do it all" PicoBSD approach. > > Greg > -- > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 0:47:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from achtung.com (mercury.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D4590151B2; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:47:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albert@achtung.com) Received: from psylocke ([63.208.244.232]) by achtung.com ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:47:02 -0600 From: "Albert Yang" To: Luigi Rizzo , Andrzej Bialecki , Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:45:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-reply-to: <200001240815.JAA38129@info.iet.unipi.it> References: <20000124121624.C2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jan 24, 2000 12:16:24 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-ID: <94870362301@mercury.hosting4u.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know what you mean about a small vi clone... Is there any in the GPL world that we can take and strip to be really small? I'm not talking about SED or something like that... how big is joe or jove? I'm so glad to see that picobsd is still alive... Should we do an inventory of what we have, and how much room each item takes in a spreadsheet format? Albert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 0:49:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB97015111; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 16A922DC0D; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:49:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 589057811; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:49:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5633510E10; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:49:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:49:15 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Greg Lehey , Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <200001240815.JAA38129@info.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > yesterday i tried to determine how much room is taken by the various > commands on the floppy image (this means after compression). Most > small commands end up taking a fraction of a 4KB block (i.e. the > "df" output with and without those commands is the same): > > df, vm, cat, test, msg, swapon, echo, hostname, ln, w, > reboot, swapon, du, tail, tee, vnconfig, arp, passwd, > mount_nfs, traceroute, pwd_mkdb, dev_mkdb, dev_mkdb, > minigzip (apparently, maybe zlib is already in by some > other reason) > > The shell takes (compressed) 36KB. "ee" takes 32KB. > So i think all in all sash does not give that much savings over > the standard set of commands. See the sizes for our tar, find, grep, dd, ed and others, that SASH provides in minimalistic form. Then you will se the difference. All of them are very useful for messing up with the system, either during installation or when fixing things. It's true that the 'SH' part in SASH is extremely primitive. IMO it should provide at least redirection and pipes in order to be useful for any scripts. > We definitely need a small "vi" clone... There were two utilities I ported from Minix: mined (much better that ee, in my opinion, and still smaller), and Minix sh - 1/4 of our sh, I think. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to get in touch with original authors to see if they could re-release the code under other license. See CVS Attic for the files (I checked them in, then bde spotted the licensing issue, so I had to delete them). Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 0:56:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6DF14A0E; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:56:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA38484; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:56:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001240856.JAA38484@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Jan 24, 2000 09:49:15 am" To: Andrzej Bialecki Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:56:05 +0100 (CET) Cc: Greg Lehey , Andrew Hannam , small@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > yesterday i tried to determine how much room is taken by the various ... > It's true that the 'SH' part in SASH is extremely primitive. IMO it should > provide at least redirection and pipes in order to be useful for any > scripts. Right, the problem with changing sh is that some scripts might break. Even now i make large use of redirection, here documents, || && and other things in the rc.conf scripts to provide some kind of autoconfiguration to the system. Yes of course we do need another minimalist tar. BTW: i am trying to put ssh/sshd and friends (ssh-agent, scp ...) on a system. The former is easy, but do you have any good suggestion about the other ones (namely, how do i tell crunchgen that the same directory contains a bunch of targets and we have to build and include all of them ?) cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 2:21:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from horus.co.jyu.fi (horus.co.jyu.fi [192.130.143.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510E214E4C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:21:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trossi@horus.co.jyu.fi) Received: (from trossi@localhost) by horus.co.jyu.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NO UCE/antispam-19991216-1 [tjko@horus.co.jyu.fi]) id MAA05040; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:20:24 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:20:24 +0200 From: Timo Rossi To: Greg Lehey Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:55:38PM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:55:38PM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > The real issue is: do we want a one-disk PicoBSD or a two-disk PicoBSD > (in fact, it's one-disk or multi-disk)? One disk is becoming What about embedded systems with small amounts of flash memory with hard disk emulation (for example an IDE-flashdisk with a few megabytes capacity)? Is PicoBSD the right choice to those situations at all? Or is it strictly for floppy-based systems? -- // Timo Rossi , // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 3: 5:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717ED15065 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA39123; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:05:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001241105.MAA39123@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: crunchgen changes... To: small@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:05:13 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In order to help building programs for PicoBSD more easily, i have implemented a couple of very small changes to crunchgen. The first one allows you to specify the name of a Make variable which holds the list of objects to be included special objvar FOO_OBJS Crunchgen tries to use OBJS, which is i think the convention for sources in the standard tree, but different programs might have different conventions. Also, the same makefile could be used to build different binaries e.g. ssh/sshd/ssh-agent ... The second one lets crunchgen use Makefile.{progname} in the current directory instead of the one in {progname} source dir to do its task. This removes the need for patching the Makefile for the program. Would people agree to have these changes incorporated into crunchgen after the feature freeze ? It's really < 10 lines of code and manpage... cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 3:14:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047D614F94 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 8D0B52DC07; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:14:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A11987811; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955AF10E10; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:38 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <200001240856.JAA38484@info.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > BTW: i am trying to put ssh/sshd and friends (ssh-agent, scp ...) > on a system. The former is easy, but do you have any good suggestion > about the other ones (namely, how do i tell crunchgen that the > same directory contains a bunch of targets and we have to build > and include all of them ?) I had something on my other machine, which simply used your own Makefile that in turn included the original one, setting .PATH appropriately. It worked for some complicated cases, IIRC. I can take a look this evening (EST time). Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 3:19:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FAA14BD0 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id AAAD72DC07; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:19:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 80EE47811; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:17:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B28710E10; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:17:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:17:11 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crunchgen changes... In-Reply-To: <200001241105.MAA39123@info.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > In order to help building programs for PicoBSD more easily, > i have implemented a couple of very small changes to crunchgen. > Would people agree to have these changes incorporated into > crunchgen after the feature freeze ? > It's really < 10 lines of code and manpage... Where are the patches? Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 3:23:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EF215092 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA39198; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:21:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001241121.MAA39198@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: crunchgen changes... In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Jan 24, 2000 12:17:11 pm" To: Andrzej Bialecki Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:21:51 +0100 (CET) Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Would people agree to have these changes incorporated into > > crunchgen after the feature freeze ? > > It's really < 10 lines of code and manpage... > > Where are the patches? below. code+manpage, /usr/src/usr.sbin/crunch/crunchgen have fun luigi --- crunchgen.c.orig Mon Sep 14 13:33:38 1998 +++ crunchgen.c Mon Jan 24 11:36:56 2000 @@ -59,9 +59,12 @@ /* progs have structure, each field can be set with "special" or calculated */ typedef struct prog { - struct prog *next; - char *name, *ident; - char *srcdir, *objdir; + struct prog *next; /* link field */ + char *name; /* program name */ + char *ident; /* C identifier for the program name */ + char *srcdir; + char *objdir; + char *objvar; /* Makefile variable to replace OBJS */ strlst_t *objs, *objpaths; strlst_t *keeplist; strlst_t *links; @@ -400,6 +403,11 @@ for(i=3;ikeeplist, argv[i]); } + else if(!strcmp(argv[2], "objvar")) { + if(argc != 4) goto argcount; + if((p->objvar = strdup(argv[3])) == NULL) + out_of_memory(); + } else { warnx("%s:%d: bad parameter name `%s', skipping line", curfilename, linenum, argv[2]); @@ -465,7 +473,9 @@ outmkname); } - +/* + * run the makefile for the program to find which objects are necessary + */ void fillin_program(prog_t *p) { char path[MAXPATHLEN]; @@ -498,7 +508,15 @@ } } } - +/* + * XXX look for a Makefile.{name} in local directory first. + * This lets us override the original Makefile. + */ + sprintf(path, "Makefile.%s", p->name); + if (is_nonempty_file(path)) { + sprintf(line, "Using %s for %s", path, p->name); + status(line); + } else if(p->srcdir) sprintf(path, "%s/Makefile", p->srcdir); if(!p->objs && p->srcdir && is_nonempty_file(path)) fillin_program_objs(p, path); @@ -528,6 +546,7 @@ char *obj, *cp; int rc; FILE *f; + char *objvar="OBJS"; /* discover the objs from the srcdir Makefile */ @@ -536,12 +555,14 @@ goterror = 1; return; } + if (p->objvar) + objvar = p->objvar ; fprintf(f, ".include \"%s\"\n", path); - fprintf(f, ".if defined(PROG) && !defined(OBJS)\n"); - fprintf(f, "OBJS=${PROG}.o\n"); + fprintf(f, ".if defined(PROG) && !defined(%s)\n", objvar); + fprintf(f, "%s=${PROG}.o\n", objvar); fprintf(f, ".endif\n"); - fprintf(f, "crunchgen_objs:\n\t@echo 'OBJS= '${OBJS}\n"); + fprintf(f, "crunchgen_objs:\n\t@echo 'OBJS= '${%s}\n", objvar); fclose(f); sprintf(line, "make -f %s crunchgen_objs 2>&1", tempfname); --- crunchgen.1.orig Mon Mar 23 09:21:55 1998 +++ crunchgen.1 Mon Jan 24 11:42:07 2000 @@ -178,6 +178,15 @@ pathname to each file in the .Nm objs list. +.It Nm special Ar progname Nm objvar Ar variable_name +Sets the name of the Make variable which holds the list of +object files for program +.Ar progname . +This is normally +.Nm OBJS +but some Makefiles might like to use other conventions or +prepend the program's name to the variable, e.g. +.Nm SSHD_OBJS . .It Nm special Ar progname Nm keep Ar symbol-name ... Add specified list of symbols to the keep list for program .Ar progname . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 6:56:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from vwall1.fcnbd.com (ilpoe1.fcnbd.com [12.27.38.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047E714D77 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:56:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from boonstb@cmg.FCNBD.COM) Received: from FCNBD.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vwall1.fcnbd.com (8.9.0/fcnbd/domain/2.5) with ESMTP id IAA25569 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from abacab.cmg.FCNBD.COM (abacab.cmg.fcnbd.com [147.113.192.227]) by FCNBD.COM (8.9.3+Sun/fcnbd/internal-domain/8.9.1.3) with ESMTP id IAA26118 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:57:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from wo1203.cmg.FCNBD.COM (wo1203.cmg.fcnbd.com [147.113.138.63]) by abacab.cmg.FCNBD.COM (8.8.5/fcnbd/server-subdomain/2.4) with ESMTP id IAA19621 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from boonstb@localhost) by wo1203.cmg.FCNBD.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07825 for small@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:37 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200001241456.IAA07825@wo1203.cmg.FCNBD.COM> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach_patches v148.2) In-Reply-To: <94870362301@mercury.hosting4u.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach_patches (Enhance 2.0b5) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.2) From: Brian Boonstra Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:56:36 -0600 To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) References: <20000124121624.C2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jan 24, 2000 12:16:24 pm" <94870362301@mercury.hosting4u.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I think "joe" is quite big, but "ae" is only 25K. For other requirements, "busybox" is GPL, but quite compact. See ftp://ftp.lineo.com/pub/busybox/ - Brian Albert wrote: > I know what you mean about a small vi clone... Is there any in the > GPL world that we can take and strip to be really small? I'm not > talking about SED or something like that... how big is joe or jove? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 6:58:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from nathanm.office.socket.net (nathanm.office.socket.net [216.106.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179CE14F15 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:58:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vae@nathanm.office.socket.net) Received: from localhost (vae@localhost) by nathanm.office.socket.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26126; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:38:13 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:38:12 -0600 (CST) From: Vaevictus Asmadi To: Bob Bishop Cc: Greg Lehey , Albert Yang , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unless it would be feasible for an unattended /dev/fd0 /dev/fd1 two disk/two fdd situation.... On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Bob Bishop wrote: > At 14:55 +0800 22/1/00, Greg Lehey wrote: > >[...] > >In summary: what else do we need in PicoBSD? Do we need to do it in > >one disk? > > A one-disk PicoBSD is absolutely required for use in unattended situations. > > > -- > Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 > rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 7:34:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95C915570 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:34:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA03148; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:32:51 GMT (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000124152057.00990910@192.168.255.1> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:22:16 +0000 To: Vaevictus Asmadi From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Cc: Greg Lehey , Albert Yang , small@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 08:38 24/01/00 -0600, Vaevictus Asmadi wrote: >unless it would be feasible for an unattended >/dev/fd0 /dev/fd1 two disk/two fdd situation.... Does the loader support multiple fdds? >On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Bob Bishop wrote: > > > At 14:55 +0800 22/1/00, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >[...] > > >In summary: what else do we need in PicoBSD? Do we need to do it in > > >one disk? > > > > A one-disk PicoBSD is absolutely required for use in unattended situations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 8:35:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles516.castles.com [208.214.165.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F16159F5 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11972; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200001241639.IAA11972@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Bob Bishop Cc: Vaevictus Asmadi , Greg Lehey , Albert Yang , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:22:16 GMT." <4.2.0.58.20000124152057.00990910@192.168.255.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:39:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > At 08:38 24/01/00 -0600, Vaevictus Asmadi wrote: > > >unless it would be feasible for an unattended > >/dev/fd0 /dev/fd1 two disk/two fdd situation.... > > Does the loader support multiple fdds? The loader supports whatever the BIOS calls a "disk drive". If the BIOS supports your second floppy drive, so does the loader. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 9: 4:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EDE9151DB for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from majid.ansari@usa.net) Received: (qmail 3466 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 17:04:07 -0000 Received: from nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.23.57) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 17:04:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 519 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2000 17:04:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20000124170407.518.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.57 by nwcst312 for [203.129.234.52] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Mon Jan 24 17:04:06 GMT 2000 Date: 24 Jan 00 22:34:06 IST From: Majid Ansari To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Help on setting up picobsd firewall X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All I am trying to setup a firewall using picobsd. I have downloaded the Router version of Picobsd. I can set the IP address= es and IPF rules etc. while the system is running. But if the system boots t= hen i hv to do this manually again. I think to do this I need to edit the files and next time it will boot wi= th these files. But Router version doesn't any editor. I copied the contents= of Dialup version to my dos hard disk and executed the editor from there. I = could modify the files. But when I run update it says that floppy is full and c= omes out. Next time it boots withs same files which don't have any config. Is there any other way of doing this ? someone pls help or guide me to p= roper documentation on setting this. Waiting for an early reply ... Thanx Majid ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 9:15:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from psasolar.colltech.com (psasolar.colltech.com [208.229.236.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362B01599C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:15:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nvp@colltech.com) Received: (from nvp@localhost) by psasolar.colltech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/not) id LAA23234; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:15:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:15:26 -0500 From: Nathan Patwardhan To: Majid Ansari Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help on setting up picobsd firewall Message-ID: <20000124121526.A22856@colltech.com> References: <20000124170407.518.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000124170407.518.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 02, 2036 at 05:02:22AM +0200, Majid Ansari wrote: : : I think to do this I need to edit the files and next time it will boot with : these files. But Router version doesn't any editor. I copied the contents of : Dialup version to my dos hard disk and executed the editor from there. I could I think that you can use vnconfig to enable the image on a virtual filesystem then mount it. Once the image is mounted somewhere, you can copy things over to the image and/or edit files that are part of the image. You *do* have to be conscious of size (meaning: don't try to copy something to the floppy that it can't accomodate) but I think that you'll have enough room to put a simple config file. :-) Here's what I've done in the past (this is from memory; please forgive me if something is wrong or has escaped me!): 1.) mount PicoBSD floppy somewhere. 2.) Copy image from PicoBSD floppy to your HD. 3.) vnconfig -v -c /dev/vn0c 4.) mount /dev/vn0c /mnt/whatever 5.) cd /mnt/whatever 6.) Edit the files that you want or copy things over to /mnt/whatever. 7.) umount /mnt/whatever 8.) vnconfig -v -u /dev/vn0c 9.) Copy update image back to mounted floppy. 10.) Umount floppy. 11.) Boot PicoBSD floppy on your router box. Should be fine. -- _ _ |_| Collective |_| Nathan V. Patwardhan |_ technologies _| Collective Technologies, Team Yankee [] [] "The Power Of Many Minds" http://www.colltech.com -- Managing Systems and Networks -- "Boring! This is so booooring! Quit boring everyone!" -- Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 9:24:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from zuul.software.net (zuul.beyond.com [209.185.98.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317D41507C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:24:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeremyp@beyond.com) Received: from hobo.beyond.com (hobo.software.net [10.2.16.51]) by zuul.software.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315F038371 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by hobo.software.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:22:09 -0800 Message-ID: <0594BB700188D3118B89009027AE9FA507A189@orbital-n2.beyond.com> From: Jeremy Pruitt To: "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: SUBSCRIBE Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:27:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 10:48:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from achtung.com (mercury.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D84851524C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albert@achtung.com) Received: from achtung.com ([207.13.193.130]) by achtung.com ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:48:17 -0600 Message-ID: <388C9EF8.DD7E970A@achtung.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:50:32 -0800 From: Albert Yang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Majid Ansari Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help on setting up picobsd firewall References: <20000124170407.518.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think you might have to run the router version, then mount the dial-in version, use ee, and then save. I'm not sure about that though, I had the same problem. Albert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 11:42:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id C988F1568C; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFA51CD5EC; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Brian Boonstra Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <200001241456.IAA07825@wo1203.cmg.FCNBD.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Brian Boonstra wrote: > Hi > > I think "joe" is quite big, but "ae" is only 25K. > > For other requirements, "busybox" is GPL, but quite compact. See > > > ftp://ftp.lineo.com/pub/busybox/ There's also lpe in ports, but that's become decidedly less 'l'(ightweight) as time has gone by. Kris ---- "How many roads must a man walk down, before you call him a man?" "Eight!" "That was a rhetorical question!" "Oh..then, seven!" -- Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 15: 2: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206D715B3D for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:01:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from famzon@bigfoot.com) Received: from w95 (wdcax5-166.dialup.optusnet.com.au [198.142.59.166]) by mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22768; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:57:31 +1100 Message-ID: <005d01bf66be$68384200$0104010a@famzon.com.au> Reply-To: "Andrew Hannam" From: "Andrew Hannam" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: References: <005001bf6588$09fb8760$0104010a@famzon.com.au> <20000124120109.B2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:56:41 +1000 Organization: FamZon Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Andrew Hannam" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Lehey" Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) > I don't believe that the named problems relate to the code. What > you're thinking of is the size that the process image can assume, and > that depends on how much work it does. Correct - still the issue remains - named is a memory hog. > > (PS. Does anyone have a tiny version of named or dialog ?) > > It would still use a lot of cache. Named could be built to have a fixed core size with the available cache being replaced in LRU fashion. Has anyone done something like this ? Also, Named and Dialog are both large programs when added to the crunch anyway. > Feel like merging this stuff with the /custom config in -CURRENT? As a task coming up parts will be merged back. I built on 3.3 release because it was what I had easy access to and having the latest and greatest wasn't the most important thing to me. It sounds like much of the stuff I did for myself had already been done in current. One of things I did was significantly alter the build system. This now makes it more difficult to merge back (a real mistake on my part). As my custom config was considerably different from the standard tree, it became a real nuisance that the 3.3 release build used a common mfs.tree and then just described differences. The most major change I made to remove the reliance on that common mfs.tree so that all files other than the crunch, the kernel, and the boot files came from the custom versions mfs.tree and dsk.tree (with obvious meanings). > > With this problem solved I was able to remove such things as ee and > > more. The command line then becomes purely an "advanced" user fixit > > system. > > Hmm. That approach would certainly meet with a lot of resistance, > from me amongst other people. Sure, I got rid of ee (I found space > for vi :-), but I would hate to have to use a web browser for normal > functionality. I agree ! In my particular situation I was after a "end-user" type product where a Web front end is ideal and a command line interface could be seen as a disadvantage. Still, I could not bring myself to completely remove the command line interface, justifying it on the basis of being an "advanced user diagnostic tool". Still the principal applies. What can be done with a web server and shell script based cgi's can be done even more easily with shell scripts and a command line interface. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 16:12:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from proxyb1.tampabay.rr.com (ns1.tampabay.rr.com [24.92.1.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4721814E62 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marrandy@tampabay.rr.com) Received: from chaossolutions.com (dt151n44.tampabay.rr.com [24.92.197.68]) by proxyb1.tampabay.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15901 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from chaossolutionsÿÿÿÿ by chaossolutions.com with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.6.0a.R) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:02:00 -0500 From: Martin To: Andrew Hannam , Greg Lehey Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:57:25 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005d01bf66be$68384200$0104010a@famzon.com.au> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0 [020] AmigaOS E-Mail Client (c) 1995-1999 by Marcel Beck http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: marrandy@tampabay.rr.com Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Andrew On 24-Jan-00, you wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Lehey" > Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) > > >> I don't believe that the named problems relate to the code. What >> you're thinking of is the size that the process image can assume, and >> that depends on how much work it does. > > Correct - still the issue remains - named is a memory hog. > >>> (PS. Does anyone have a tiny version of named or dialog ?) http://cr.yp.to/dnscache.html Regards...Martin -- All censorships exist to prevent any one from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorships. -- George Bernard Shaw To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 19:30:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525B014EFD for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j13.ktb6.jaring.my [161.142.234.27]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14052; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:00:29 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04725; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:33:58 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:33:58 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Timo Rossi Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi>; from trossi@co.jyu.fi on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:20:24PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 12:20:24 +0200, Timo Rossi wrote: > On Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 02:55:38PM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: >> The real issue is: do we want a one-disk PicoBSD or a two-disk PicoBSD >> (in fact, it's one-disk or multi-disk)? One disk is becoming > > What about embedded systems with small amounts of flash memory with > hard disk emulation (for example an IDE-flashdisk with a few > megabytes capacity)? This is in fact an area that I might be investigating in the near future. I think we need to look at a different approach for embedded systems. On general-purpose systems, we aim for easy continuous change. In order to do this, we have separate executables with dynamic linking to a large number of files. These are all inefficient in storage utilization, so PicoBSD has no libraries and crunched executables. I think the latter approach is also correct for flash memory systems. Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have a single executable, which might be larger than a single floppy. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 19:34: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from yana.lemis.com (yana.lemis.com [192.109.197.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DA91532F; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: from mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (j16.klt32.jaring.my [161.142.169.150]) by yana.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14062; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:03:57 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by mojave.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04741; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:35:11 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:35:11 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Bob Bishop , Vaevictus Asmadi , Albert Yang , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000125103511.V2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Reply-To: Greg Lehey References: <4.2.0.58.20000124152057.00990910@192.168.255.1> <200001241639.IAA11972@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001241639.IAA11972@mass.cdrom.com>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 08:39:19AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 8:39:19 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> At 08:38 24/01/00 -0600, Vaevictus Asmadi wrote: >> >>> unless it would be feasible for an unattended >>> /dev/fd0 /dev/fd1 two disk/two fdd situation.... >> >> Does the loader support multiple fdds? > > The loader supports whatever the BIOS calls a "disk drive". If the BIOS > supports your second floppy drive, so does the loader. That's not even necessary for the current two-disk version: /etc/rc reads in the second disk, so it can be wherever you tell it to look for it. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 21:28:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.mmcable.com (fe1.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342151529C for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:28:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jss@subatomix.com) Received: from mail.subatomix.com ([24.94.234.115]) by mail1.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:28:43 -0600 Received: from Spooler by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 24 Jan 00 23:32:12 -0600 Received: from spooler by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 24 Jan 00 23:31:45 -0600 Received: from quark (24.94.234.13) by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 24 Jan 00 23:31:42 -0600 Message-ID: <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "freebsd-small" References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:21:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards > floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current > implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library > contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have > a single executable, which might be larger than a single floppy. Another thing: using MFS for the root filesystem is bad for flash. (A) Big MFS sizes on big flash disks make memory requirements too high; (B) There is no need to make it possible for one to remove the flash disk after booting. But then there's the problem of /var and /tmp.... =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com http://www.subatomix.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a20 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> !E W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 24 23:53:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD98A14DC9 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id HAA99315; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:53:18 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:40:20 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi>; from trossi@co.jyu.fi on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:20:24PM +0200 <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:40:19 +0000 To: Greg Lehey From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Cc: Timo Rossi , small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:33 +0800 25/1/00, Greg Lehey wrote: >[...] >Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards >floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current >implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library >contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have >a single executable... Um, that's what the current PicoBSD system does? >...which might be larger than a single floppy. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 8:39:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD8414EB8 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:39:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id F1E282DC0B; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:38:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6A4E87811; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:36:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D36410E10; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:36:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:36:12 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Albert Yang Cc: Majid Ansari , freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help on setting up picobsd firewall In-Reply-To: <388C9EF8.DD7E970A@achtung.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Albert Yang wrote: > I think you might have to run the router version, then mount the dial-in > version, use ee, and then save. I'm not sure about that though, I had > the same problem. The other way around, i.e. boot the dial floppy, mount the router floppy, and use ee to edit the files on router floppy. If you don't boot the dial floppy, the ee will be still inside the MFS image, so you won't be able to use it. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 12:13:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from edna.bus.net (edna.bus.net [207.41.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9073C14C28 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Received: from bus.net (1.ct4.dyn.connix.net [209.66.144.64]) by edna.bus.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06401; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:12:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Message-ID: <388E0396.9EA998A1@bus.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:12:06 -0500 From: "Michael S. O'Donnell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Timo Rossi , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG although i'm a beginner to both picoBSD and FreeBSD, i will gladly volunteer to assist in this effort in any way. embedded systems application is precisely the reason why i joined this group. my background is manufacturing engineering, i have a BSEE where i specialized in computer engineering. my real skill is executing mathematics in assembly language (now a dead skill). i'm working hard to gain stronger C skills and to better understand OSs. meanwhile, i'm sure i could at least help in documentation. as soon as i get ppp up, you won't have to deal with this netscape generated mail from me anymore. thanks for your patience. Michael S. O'Donnell mso@bus.net V 203.334.5885 F 203.334.5453 > > What about embedded systems with small amounts of flash memory with > > hard disk emulation (for example an IDE-flashdisk with a few > > megabytes capacity)? > > This is in fact an area that I might be investigating in the near > future. I think we need to look at a different approach for embedded > systems. On general-purpose systems, we aim for easy continuous > change. In order to do this, we have separate executables with > dynamic linking to a large number of files. These are all inefficient > in storage utilization, so PicoBSD has no libraries and crunched > executables. I think the latter approach is also correct for flash > memory systems. > > Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards > floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current > implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library > contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have > a single executable, which might be larger than a single floppy. > > Greg > -- > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 13:25:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E29115603 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id HAA42290; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:54:46 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:54:46 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Bob Bishop Cc: Timo Rossi , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000126075445.B42227@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi>; <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 25 January 2000 at 7:40:19 +0000, Bob Bishop wrote: > At 10:33 +0800 25/1/00, Greg Lehey wrote: >> [...] >> Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards >> floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current >> implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library >> contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have >> a single executable... > > Um, that's what the current PicoBSD system does? Is this a question or a statement? In any case, for the multiple disk configuration the answer is "no". There's one crunched executable per disk, and that involves repetition. >> ...which might be larger than a single floppy. Currently that's not the way it's done. It might be an option, and I suppose somebody should explore it. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 13:29: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59842150A8 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id HAA42351; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:58:25 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:58:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: freebsd-small Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Message-ID: <20000126075825.C42227@freebie.lemis.com> References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 24 January 2000 at 23:21:24 -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: >> Unfortunately, the current PicoBSD system is oriented towards >> floppies. This has the great disadvantage, at least in the current >> implementation, that each crunched executable repeats the library >> contents. For a flash memory system it would make more sense to have >> a single executable, which might be larger than a single floppy. > > Another thing: using MFS for the root filesystem is bad for flash. (A) > Big MFS sizes on big flash disks make memory requirements too high; (B) > There is no need to make it possible for one to remove the flash disk > after booting. The way I see it, big MFSs are incidental to the use of flash; they expect a certain amount of memory. But yes, we could execute the programs directly from flash, we wouldn't need them in the mfs. It should be relatively straightforward to do that in the current build process: it builds a floppy image and an mfs. The mfs contains the crunched executable. It then writes the mfs to the floppy image, then copies the floppy image to a floppy. In the flash case, we would write the floppy image to flash. There's no reason why we shouldn't put a crunched executable on the flash image. > But then there's the problem of /var and /tmp.... They would need to be in mfs. You can't get away without any writable file space, and you don't want to be writing to your flash all the time. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 13:39:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from firemoth.pkunk.yi.org (adsl-216-101-13-135.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net [216.101.13.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A507D15339 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pkunk@i.am) Received: from fury (fury.pkunk.yi.org [216.101.13.52]) by firemoth.pkunk.yi.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA13503 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pkunk@i.am) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:37:46 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF6739.5D459020.pkunk@i.am> From: Pkunk Fury To: "'small@freebsd.org'" Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:37:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 13:41:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F64B153A8 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07576; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA06561; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:40:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001252140.OAA06561@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:58:25 +1030." <20000126075825.C42227@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000126075825.C42227@freebie.lemis.com> <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:40:42 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been running an uncompressed FreeBSD 3.3ish system in 8-10M of FLASH with MFS for /tmp and other mountpoints (ala rc.diskless). The programs page in off of FLASH and it seems to be fast enough for what we're doing. I have a crude script that builds this from the buildworld tree. I was thinking of creating a release/nanobsd that was based around that script, but that would be too confusing. :-) While it does raise our cost a little to do things this way, we gain a lot more flexibilty. Also, the control programs that are on top of the FreeBSD install can get to be large, so we're running with 64M parts. We're not doing this in large quantities, and the customers are paying us enough that the cost differential per unit isn't worth the extra engineering time. If we were doing this in huge quantities, then we'd likely spend the $$$ to reduce things even further. Until recently, the biggest pole in the tent was termcap{,.db}, but we have an ultra small termcap that we use now that just has cons24, ansi, dumb, xterm and vt100 in it. Something like 1800bytes. Looks like MUNGED TECO macros since I eliminated all white space, long names, newlines, etc. Now there are other big poles, the kernel being first in the list now. Too bad we can't get rid of NFS for this project, that would save another 300k. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 17:45:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.mv.net (mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E6E14DFD for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulc@visual.mv.com) Received: from visual.mv.com (bnh-4-19.mv.com [199.125.99.211]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with ESMTP id UAA01680 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:45:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <388E51D8.7DBC491D@visual.mv.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:46:00 -0500 From: Paul Courchene X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crunch gen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello I am new to FreeBSD and interested in PicoBSD. I do not presently have access to code or Manpages, however, I am interested in learning what a "crunched executable" or "crunch gen" is. Does someone have a moment to expand on this idea, in the context of building a "floppy picoBSD" system? (that is, in laymens terms, what is a crunchgen?) thanks in advance paulc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 17:54:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D47C14E7C for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA45172; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:24:03 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:24:03 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Paul Courchene Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crunch gen Message-ID: <20000126122403.G44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <388E51D8.7DBC491D@visual.mv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <388E51D8.7DBC491D@visual.mv.com> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 25 January 2000 at 20:46:00 -0500, Paul Courchene wrote: > Hello > I am new to FreeBSD and interested in PicoBSD. > I do not presently have access to code or Manpages, > however, I am interested in learning what a > "crunched executable" or "crunch gen" is. > > Does someone have a moment to expand on this idea, > in the context of building a "floppy picoBSD" system? > (that is, in laymens terms, what is a crunchgen?) I'll send you the formatted man page by separate mail. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jan 25 22:38:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.mmcable.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143D615116 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jss@subatomix.com) Received: from mail.subatomix.com ([24.94.234.115]) by mail3.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:38:34 -0600 Received: from Spooler by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 26 Jan 00 00:42:07 -0600 Received: from spooler by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 26 Jan 00 00:41:55 -0600 Received: from quark (24.94.234.13) by mail.subatomix.com (Mercury/32 v2.16); 26 Jan 00 00:41:45 -0600 Message-ID: <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: "freebsd-small" References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi Date: 26 Jan 2000 00:38:35 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG e.lemis.com> Subject: Re: New approach to picobsd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:31:24 -0600 Organization: The Subatomix Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > > Another thing: using MFS for the root filesystem is bad for flash. (A) > > Big MFS sizes on big flash disks make memory requirements too high; (B) > > There is no need to make it possible for one to remove the flash disk > > after booting. > > ... > > But then there's the problem of /var and /tmp.... > > They would need to be in mfs. You can't get away without any writable > file space, and you don't want to be writing to your flash all the > time. Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. The flash is normally kept mounted read-only. Then, instead of running an update script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, makes changes, and remounts read-only. =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com http://www.subatomix.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a20 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> !E W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 7: 3:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from cdc.net (server1.cdc.net [207.244.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B22A14BD5 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:03:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwade@cdc.net) Received: (qmail 11972 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 15:03:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cdc.net) (207.244.0.13) by server1.cdc.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 15:03:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 5328 invoked by uid 100); 26 Jan 2000 15:03:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:03:08 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Wade X-Sender: mwade@server2 To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-small Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 Jan 2000, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am > working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, > /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. The flash is > normally kept mounted read-only. Then, instead of running an update > script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, makes changes, and > remounts read-only. I've attempted this and I ended up with a filesystem of corrupted files when mounting read-only, remounting read-write, then remounting read-only several times. I ended up partitioning the flash and creating a read-only binary partition and a read/write config partition that is mounted only on update. From the mount man page: BUGS It is possible for a corrupted file system to cause a crash. Switching a filesystem back and forth between asynchronous and normal operation or between read/write and read/only access using ``mount -u'' may gradually bring about severe filesystem corruption. It would be very nice to have this feature when dealing with flash. Also it would be nice to have a "accidental power off" safe file system when using hard drives for embedded devices such as Internet Appliances. --- Mike Wade (mwade@cdc.net) Director of Systems Administration CDC Internet, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 9: 7:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from edna.bus.net (edna.bus.net [207.41.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B554E14A2C for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Received: from bus.net (17.ct9.dyn.connix.net [209.66.147.24]) by edna.bus.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12273; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:07:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Message-ID: <388F299C.8976DAC5@bus.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:06:36 -0500 From: "Michael S. O'Donnell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Wade Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , Greg Lehey , freebsd-small Subject: Re: your mail References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Also it would be nice to have an "accidental power off" safe file > > > system when using hard drives for embedded devices such as > > > Internet Appliances. i just started developing a hardware solution for this for a client who has servers going to trade shows where uniformed individuals occasionally take it upon themselves to 'push the button'. i don't mind losing the project to a software solution. i know that would be the solution the client would prefer (hardware would require me to build a new unit for every different server; the design doesn't change, but, the footprint and mounting does). if anyone knows how to do it, please tell me and/or the list. i will request that the client make the solution available under the FreeBSD license (my hardware solution will not be). the client runs _all_ systems under FreeBSD and i'm quite confident he would welcome the opportunity to contribute. thank you. Michael S. O'Donnell Mike Wade wrote: > > On 26 Jan 2000, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am > > working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, > > /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. The flash is > > normally kept mounted read-only. Then, instead of running an update > > script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, makes changes, and > > remounts read-only. > > I've attempted this and I ended up with a filesystem of corrupted files > when mounting read-only, remounting read-write, then remounting read-only > several times. I ended up partitioning the flash and creating a read-only > binary partition and a read/write config partition that is mounted only on > update. > > >From the mount man page: > > BUGS > It is possible for a corrupted file system to cause a crash. > Switching a filesystem back and forth between asynchronous and normal > operation or between read/write and read/only access using ``mount > -u'' may gradually bring about severe filesystem corruption. > > It would be very nice to have this feature when dealing with flash. Also > it would be nice to have a "accidental power off" safe file system when > using hard drives for embedded devices such as Internet Appliances. > > --- > Mike Wade (mwade@cdc.net) > Director of Systems Administration > CDC Internet, Inc. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 13: 7:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2628F152CE for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01058; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA02060; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001262106.OAA02060@harmony.village.org> To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: "Greg Lehey" , "freebsd-small" In-reply-to: Your message of "26 Jan 2000 00:38:35 CST." <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> References: <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:35 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" writes: : Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am : working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, : /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. The flash is : normally kept mounted read-only. Yes. That's right. I have permisson to make the mkflash stuff available. I'd like to mak eit into a port or something. : Then, instead of running an update : script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, makes changes, and : remounts read-only. This gets hard to manage in a hurry, but is effective. We actually have two R/W partitions in our system. One we leave r/w all the time, the other we leave unmounted. From time to time we dump everything from the first to the second. That way if the first one develops a readonly spot, we can switch to the other. Our projections are that we'll have to do this after about 5 years of use (our devices are intended to have a 10 year life). This makes flash 3x better than IDE drives that have a very very high failure rate (like 1 per 50 systems installed per month). This is why we're moving to flash... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 13:53:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00F614DAF for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA52347; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:23:39 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:23:39 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: freebsd-small Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 0:38:35 -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > >>> Another thing: using MFS for the root filesystem is bad for flash. >>> (A) Big MFS sizes on big flash disks make memory requirements too high; >>> (B) There is no need to make it possible for one to remove the >>> flash disk after booting. >>> ... >>> But then there's the problem of /var and /tmp.... >> >> They would need to be in mfs. You can't get away without any writable >> file space, and you don't want to be writing to your flash all the >> time. > > Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am > working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, > /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. At the best of time, putting /var and /tmp on separate file systems is of dubious advantage. These are not the best of times; one file system is plenty. > The flash is normally kept mounted read-only. Then, instead of > running an update script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, > makes changes, and remounts read-only. Right. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14: 3: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9FB14D00 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:02:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01438; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA02815; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:02:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001262202.PAA02815@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: your mail Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:23:39 +1030." <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:02:25 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: : At the best of time, putting /var and /tmp on separate file systems is : of dubious advantage. These are not the best of times; one file : system is plenty. No. That's not true with flash systems. With /var and /tmp being mfs mounted they can be written to a lot w/o touching the flash cards. The big advantage is that you get your logs/tmp files etc w/o needing to hit flash. This is a huge win. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14: 5:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64823154A4 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:05:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA52622; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:35:15 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:35:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Warner Losh Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small Subject: /var and /tmp (was: your mail) Message-ID: <20000127083514.Z44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> <200001262202.PAA02815@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200001262202.PAA02815@harmony.village.org> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 15:02:25 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: > : At the best of time, putting /var and /tmp on separate file systems is > : of dubious advantage. These are not the best of times; one file > : system is plenty. > > No. That's not true with flash systems. With /var and /tmp being mfs > mounted they can be written to a lot w/o touching the flash cards. > The big advantage is that you get your logs/tmp files etc w/o needing > to hit flash. This is a huge win. I was advocating making them the same file system, not leaving /tmp on flash. Create one mfs, mount it on /var, and make /tmp a symlink to /var/tmp. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14: 6:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23909154A3 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01482; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:06:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA02908; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:06:10 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001262206.PAA02908@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: /var and /tmp (was: your mail) Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:35:14 +1030." <20000127083514.Z44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000127083514.Z44457@freebie.lemis.com> <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> <3888D5CF.329989@achtung.com> <20000122145538.A390@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <20000124122024.A4574@horus.co.jyu.fi> <20000125103358.U2643@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <005f01bf66f4$05a499f0$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000126075825.C42227@freebi <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000127082339.T44457@freebie.lemis.com> <200001262202.PAA02815@harmony.village.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:06:10 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000127083514.Z44457@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: : I was advocating making them the same file system, not leaving /tmp on : flash. Create one mfs, mount it on /var, and make /tmp a symlink to : /var/tmp. Ah. Never mind. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14: 7:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36D5153A9 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA52653; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:37:08 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:37:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Wade Cc: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small Subject: Mounting flash file systems (was: your mail) Message-ID: <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 10:03:08 -0500, Mike Wade wrote: > On 26 Jan 2000, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > >> Therefore, I suggest something like what Warner has done (and that I am >> working on as time permits), where the flash is the root fs and /tmp, >> /var, and so on are mounted as small MFS filesystems. The flash is >> normally kept mounted read-only. Then, instead of running an update >> script, one simply remounts the flash read-write, makes changes, and >> remounts read-only. > > I've attempted this and I ended up with a filesystem of corrupted files > when mounting read-only, remounting read-write, then remounting read-only > several times. I ended up partitioning the flash and creating a read-only > binary partition and a read/write config partition that is mounted only on > update. > >> From the mount man page: > > BUGS > It is possible for a corrupted file system to cause a crash. > Switching a filesystem back and forth between asynchronous and normal > operation or between read/write and read/only access using ``mount > -u'' may gradually bring about severe filesystem corruption. This doesn't fit. You didn't say you were changing your file systems between synchronous and asynchronous. That's the key of this particular problem. > It would be very nice to have this feature when dealing with flash. > Also it would be nice to have a "accidental power off" safe file > system when using hard drives for embedded devices such as Internet > Appliances. I still think that a R/O file system would beat any of these. If you have to mount R/W, leave it that way until reboot. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14: 9:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EED41538B for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:09:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA52680; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:38:51 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:38:51 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Michael S. O'Donnell" Cc: Mike Wade , "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small Subject: Accidental reset/power off (was: your mail) Message-ID: <20000127083851.B44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <388F299C.8976DAC5@bus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <388F299C.8976DAC5@bus.net> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 12:06:36 -0500, Michael S. O'Donnell wrote: >>>> Also it would be nice to have an "accidental power off" safe file >>>> system when using hard drives for embedded devices such as >>>> Internet Appliances. > > i just started developing a hardware solution for this for a client > who has servers going to trade shows where uniformed individuals > occasionally take it upon themselves to 'push the button'. i don't > mind losing the project to a software solution. i know that would > be the solution the client would prefer (hardware would require me to > build a new unit for every different server; the design doesn't change, > but, the footprint and mounting does). if anyone knows how to do it, > please tell me and/or the list. i will request that the client make > the solution available under the FreeBSD license (my hardware solution > will not be). the client runs _all_ systems under FreeBSD and i'm > quite confident he would welcome the opportunity to contribute. Again, mounting the file systems read only is a good way to achieve this goal. But for money I'll follow up with some alternatives :-) Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14:17:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29DE514D3C for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01599; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:17:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA03197; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:17:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200001262217.PAA03197@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Mounting flash file systems (was: your mail) Cc: Mike Wade , "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:37:08 +1030." <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:17:29 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: : I still think that a R/O file system would beat any of these. If you : have to mount R/W, leave it that way until reboot. We've found that it is much safer to keep thinks R/O as much as possible. It makes it much easier to recover from power failure. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 14:22:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99FE152E4 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA53050; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:52:03 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:52:02 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Warner Losh Cc: Mike Wade , "Jeffrey S. Sharp" , freebsd-small Subject: Re: Mounting flash file systems (was: your mail) Message-ID: <20000127085202.G44457@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> <002201bf67c6$f76b4090$0dea5e18@mmcable.com> <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> <200001262217.PAA03197@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200001262217.PAA03197@harmony.village.org> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 15:17:29 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <20000127083708.A44457@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: > : I still think that a R/O file system would beat any of these. If you > : have to mount R/W, leave it that way until reboot. > > We've found that it is much safer to keep thinks R/O as much as > possible. It makes it much easier to recover from power failure. Agreed, but sometimes you have to update the stuff. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 26 15:30: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from massive.geek.edu (massive.geek.edu [216.73.11.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22C71516A for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jontow@massive.geek.edu) Received: from wanderlust (wanderlust [10.0.0.5]) by massive.geek.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id F14A618D6; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:31:48 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:24:44 EST From: Jonathan Towne To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) Reply-To: jontow@massive.geek.edu X-Mailer: Spruce 0.5.12 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20000126183148.F14A618D6@massive.geek.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We definitely need a small "vi" clone... Anyone looked into 'elvis' (hey, even elle (very-mini emacs clone :) yet? these are both available with a standard installation of Minix 2.0+ (possibly/probably older versions too, but i don't have the means to check).. maybe ill try porting later on tonight. Another editor one might wish to look into is 'mined', another Minix editor.. someone give feedback on this, tell me if its usable or worth the work :) -- - Jonathan Towne (Systems Administrator) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 27 1: 9:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAB71515B for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 2A1F02DC0B; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:08:58 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A10797811; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:08:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED6110E10; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:08:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:08:04 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Jonathan Towne Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) In-Reply-To: <20000126183148.F14A618D6@massive.geek.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Jonathan Towne wrote: > > > We definitely need a small "vi" clone... > > Anyone looked into 'elvis' (hey, even elle (very-mini emacs clone :) yet? > these are both available with a standard installation of Minix 2.0+ > (possibly/probably > older versions too, but i don't have the means to check).. maybe ill try > porting later on > tonight. Another editor one might wish to look into is 'mined', another > Minix editor.. > someone give feedback on this, tell me if its usable or worth the work :) Beware! I already took some time to port both mined and minix sh, only to discover that they are subject to license which we can't accept. Pity. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 27 8:22: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from achtung.com (mercury.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E60E14CE9 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:21:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albert@achtung.com) Received: from psylocke ([63.208.240.194]) by achtung.com ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:21:47 -0600 From: "Albert Yang" To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:20:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: One disk vs Two Disk (was Re: New approach to picobsd) References: <20000126183148.F14A618D6@massive.geek.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: <94899010801@mercury.hosting4u.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How big is ae or ee? I didn't think either was that big.. or am I wrong? I pieced together an old machine, so I can throw freebsd on a box at home as well. So I'll try to learn a little more about developing picobsd now. Albert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 1:52: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8F7150BA for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:51:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from bfg (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA04684 Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:51:53 GMT Message-ID: <001201bf6a3e$c9186900$0200000a@bfg> From: "Roger Hardiman" To: Subject: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:54:03 -0000 Organization: University of Strathclyde MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, The 4.0-current kernel config has been updated so it does not need version numbers after PCI devices eg device fxp0 device bktr0 should now be written as device fxp device bktr I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files for the various disks. JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 code freeze. Roger -- Roger Hardiman roger@cs.strath.ac.uk roger@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 2:31:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD6C15DB8 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29461; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:31:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200001291031.LAA29461@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current In-Reply-To: <001201bf6a3e$c9186900$0200000a@bfg> from Roger Hardiman at "Jan 29, 2000 09:54:03 am" To: Roger Hardiman Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:31:21 +0100 (CET) Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The 4.0-current kernel config has been updated so it > does not need version numbers after PCI devices s/version/unit/ > I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files > for the various disks. > > JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 > code freeze. this sounds interesting, then maybe i can bring in the various patches to the build infrastructure i posted 1-2 weeks ago on this list! SHould they go thorugh you ? do you have the time to test them ? cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 8:33:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk [130.159.196.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3C914DCD for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:33:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roger@cs.strath.ac.uk) Received: from bfg (scary.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.202.5]) by fleming.cs.strath.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA07797 Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:33:35 GMT Message-ID: <002901bf6a76$e5be4380$0200000a@bfg> From: "Roger Hardiman" To: "Luigi Rizzo" Cc: References: <200001291031.LAA29461@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:35:46 -0000 Organization: University of Strathclyde MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > > I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files > > for the various disks. > > > > JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 > > code freeze. > > this sounds interesting, then maybe i can bring in the various > patches to the build infrastructure i posted 1-2 weeks ago on this list! > SHould they go thorugh you ? do you have the time to test them ? Well, I don't read freebsd-small, so I never saw them, but I'm sure we could sneak them in. Who is the official PicoBSD maintainer now? Roger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 8:56:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from www.tech-nic.dk (www.tech-nic.dk [194.19.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D30E14E98 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:56:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlarsen@tech-nic.net) Received: from tech-nic.net (You-can-not-hack-this-firewall.tech-nic.net [194.255.39.242]) by www.tech-nic.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25748; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:59:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <38931AF8.73CDBB83@tech-nic.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:53:12 +0100 From: Michael Larsen Reply-To: mlarsen@tech-nic.net Organization: www.tech-nic.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: da MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current References: <200001291031.LAA29461@info.iet.unipi.it> <002901bf6a76$e5be4380$0200000a@bfg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I belive it's still Andrzej Bialecki....?? /Michael Larsen Roger Hardiman wrote: > > Hi, > > > I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files > > > for the various disks. > > > > > > JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 > > > code freeze. > > > > this sounds interesting, then maybe i can bring in the various > > patches to the build infrastructure i posted 1-2 weeks ago on this list! > > SHould they go thorugh you ? do you have the time to test them ? > > Well, I don't read freebsd-small, so I never saw them, but I'm sure we could > sneak them in. > > Who is the official PicoBSD maintainer now? > > Roger > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message -- Michael Larsen / mlarsen@tech-nic.net \ www.tech-nic.net -= Member of *BSD-Dk USER GROUP | www.bsd-dk.dk =- -- bash# grep evil www.microsoft* | /dev/NULL -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 8:57:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from x-montana.utcorp.com (x-montana.utcorp.com [146.145.135.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CAE14E7B for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kseel@utcorp.com) Received: from utcorp.com (x-kspc.utcorp.com [146.145.135.17]) by x-montana.utcorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA31586 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:59:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kseel@utcorp.com) Message-ID: <38931C91.DE2C0FF0@utcorp.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:00:01 -0500 From: Kurt Seel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Alien filesystem booting? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Excuse me if this sounds unnatural, but ... Has anyone ever looked at making FBSD boot off of an msdos filesys? Could the vn driver be used as a root file system perhaps? Or is long file naming in the msdos file system in the kernel good enough to use an msdos file system as root? Am i even asking this on the right group? -- "The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." - Bohr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 9:13:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from cdc.net (server1.cdc.net [207.244.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F2D3914E74 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwade@cdc.net) Received: (qmail 16586 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 17:13:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cdc.net) (207.244.0.13) by server1.cdc.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 17:13:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 11352 invoked by uid 100); 29 Jan 2000 17:13:01 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Wade X-Sender: mwade@server2 To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: crunchgen problems with postfix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I've been using crunchgen for quite some time with PicoBSD on flash. Recently I decided to add a full featured mail server (Postfix) to my project but ran into this linking(?) problem with crunchgen. The 'smtp' program with Postfix compiles just fine without using crunchgen but something bizarre happens with a few external variables. I've included a simple crunch config file to demonstrate the problem: --- crunch.conf --- progs smtp special smtp objdir /usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/smtp special smtp objs smtp.o quote_821_local.o smtp_connect.o smtp_proto.o smtp_chat.o smtp_session.o smtp_addr.o smtp_trouble.o smtp_unalias.o smtp_state.o libs -L/usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib -lmaster -lglobal -ldns -lutil --- crunch.conf --- cc -static -o crunch crunch.o smtp.lo -L/usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib -lmaster -lglobal -ldns -lutil /usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib/libglobal.a(debug_peer.o): In function `debug_peer_init': debug_peer.o(.text+0x1d): undefined reference to `var_debug_peer_list' debug_peer.o(.text+0x3e): undefined reference to `var_debug_peer_level' /usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib/libglobal.a(debug_peer.o): In function `debug_peer_check': debug_peer.o(.text+0xa1): undefined reference to `var_debug_peer_level' *** Error code 1 Comments? Suggestions? --- Mike Wade (mwade@cdc.net) Director of Systems Administration CDC Internet, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 11:59:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E2014E52 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id BB5512DC07; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:58:54 +0100 (CET) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 45FE07811; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:58:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4123610E10; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:58:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:58:06 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Michael Larsen Cc: Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current In-Reply-To: <38931AF8.73CDBB83@tech-nic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Michael Larsen wrote: > I belive it's still Andrzej Bialecki....?? > > /Michael Larsen Not really... As I said several times, I simply don't have enough time now to effectively perform this function. I'll be glad to delegate it to some other competent person. Several people have made significant contributions and fixes to PicoBSD, including Doug White, Roger Hardiman, Luigi Rizzo and recently Greg Lehey. I'd be happy if e.g. one of these folks officially stated that he will be the maintainer. > Roger Hardiman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files > > > > for the various disks. > > > > > > > > JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 > > > > code freeze. > > > > > > this sounds interesting, then maybe i can bring in the various > > > patches to the build infrastructure i posted 1-2 weeks ago on this list! > > > SHould they go thorugh you ? do you have the time to test them ? > > > > Well, I don't read freebsd-small, so I never saw them, but I'm sure we could > > sneak them in. > > > > Who is the official PicoBSD maintainer now? > > > > Roger > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > -- > Michael Larsen / mlarsen@tech-nic.net \ www.tech-nic.net > -= Member of *BSD-Dk USER GROUP | www.bsd-dk.dk =- > -- bash# grep evil www.microsoft* | /dev/NULL -- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 18:52:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC70152B4 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:52:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA55673; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:21:20 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:21:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: Michael Larsen , Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Message-ID: <20000130132119.A55643@freebie.lemis.com> References: <38931AF8.73CDBB83@tech-nic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 29 January 2000 at 20:58:06 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Michael Larsen wrote: >> Roger Hardiman wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>>>> I think this means we need to update the PicoBSD kernel config files >>>>> for the various disks. >>>>> >>>>> JKH has given is permission to do PicoBSD commits even after the 4.0 >>>>> code freeze. >>>> >>>> this sounds interesting, then maybe i can bring in the various >>>> patches to the build infrastructure i posted 1-2 weeks ago on this list! >>>> SHould they go thorugh you ? do you have the time to test them ? >>> >>> Well, I don't read freebsd-small, so I never saw them, but I'm sure we could >>> sneak them in. >>> >>> Who is the official PicoBSD maintainer now? >> >> I belive it's still Andrzej Bialecki....?? > > Not really... As I said several times, I simply don't have enough > time now to effectively perform this function. I'll be glad to > delegate it to some other competent person. Several people have made > significant contributions and fixes to PicoBSD, including Doug > White, Roger Hardiman, Luigi Rizzo and recently Greg Lehey. I'd be > happy if e.g. one of these folks officially stated that he will be > the maintainer. Given the recent discussion about maintainers in general, I think we should only have maintainers for those products where one person does the bulk (> 75%) of the work. I don't think PicoBSD fits into this category, so I'd suggest that we don't have a maintainer. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 19:55: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from nfs1-1.bctel.ca (nfs1-1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6415E150A0 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stainsby@telus.net) Received: from ws1 (vanc06m06-198.bctel.ca [207.194.25.198]) by nfs1-1.bctel.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA10020; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000b01bf6ad5$f157baa0$c619c2cf@ws1> From: "Erik Stainsby" To: "Greg Lehey" , "Andrzej Bialecki" Cc: "Michael Larsen" , "Roger Hardiman" , Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:56:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Given the recent discussion about maintainers in general, I think we >should only have maintainers for those products where one person does >the bulk (> 75%) of the work. I don't think PicoBSD fits into this >category, so I'd suggest that we don't have a maintainer. > >Greg >-- >Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key >See complete headers for address and phone numbers Fair enough, perhaps but the gist of the question still ought to be addressed, don't you think? Idem est, who should be the agent/rep for posting changes into the tree ? Erik Stainsby stainsby@telus.net ========================================================== There was no year zero. Consider this simple chart: Decade: 1 - 10 11 - 20 21 - 30 Century: 1 - 100 101 - 200 201 - 300 Millennium: 1 - 1000 1001 - 2000 2001 - 3000 The third millennium begins January 1, 2001 ========================================================== E Pluribus Unix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 19:57:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FAF15ACE for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:57:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA56087; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:27:27 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:27:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Erik Stainsby Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , Michael Larsen , Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Message-ID: <20000130142727.G55643@freebie.lemis.com> References: <000b01bf6ad5$f157baa0$c619c2cf@ws1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <000b01bf6ad5$f157baa0$c619c2cf@ws1> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 29 January 2000 at 19:56:07 -0800, Erik Stainsby wrote: >> Given the recent discussion about maintainers in general, I think we >> should only have maintainers for those products where one person does >> the bulk (> 75%) of the work. I don't think PicoBSD fits into this >> category, so I'd suggest that we don't have a maintainer. > > Fair enough, perhaps but the gist of the question still ought to be > addressed, don't you think? Idem est, who should be the agent/rep > for posting changes into the tree ? I thought that did address it. If you have a change to PicoBSD and you're a committer, commit it. If you're not a committer, find a committer. In either case, it makes sense to discuss modifications on this list first. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 20:36:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 714C814DA4; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623ED1CD812; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:36:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Kurt Seel Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alien filesystem booting? In-Reply-To: <38931C91.DE2C0FF0@utcorp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Kurt Seel wrote: > Has anyone ever looked at making FBSD boot off of an > msdos filesys? Could the vn driver be used as a root file > system perhaps? Or is long file naming in the msdos > file system in the kernel good enough to use an msdos > file system as root? Am i even asking this on the right > group? You'd be better off asking on freebsd-fs - but I don't think FreeBSD can do this at present. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 20:38:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 5008C1555C; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394521CD812; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:38:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:38:11 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mike Wade Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crunchgen problems with postfix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Mike Wade wrote: > cc -static -o crunch crunch.o smtp.lo > -L/usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib -lmaster -lglobal -ldns -lutil > /usr/home/mwade/postfix-19991231-pl02/lib/libglobal.a(debug_peer.o): In > function `debug_peer_init': > debug_peer.o(.text+0x1d): undefined reference to `var_debug_peer_list' Well, where is this function defined? Did you forget to include an object file in the config file? Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 20:41: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 7F69214DA4; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FA11CD6DB; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:41:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:41:01 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Greg Lehey Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , Michael Larsen , Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current In-Reply-To: <20000130132119.A55643@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > Given the recent discussion about maintainers in general, I think we > should only have maintainers for those products where one person does > the bulk (> 75%) of the work. I don't think PicoBSD fits into this > category, so I'd suggest that we don't have a maintainer. How about MAINTAINER = freebsd-small, then, to indicate that changes should be passed by this list? Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 29 20:42:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8A315303; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA56440; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:12:09 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:12:09 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , Michael Larsen , Roger Hardiman , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD changes for 4.0-current Message-ID: <20000130151208.J55643@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000130132119.A55643@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 29 January 2000 at 20:41:01 -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Given the recent discussion about maintainers in general, I think we >> should only have maintainers for those products where one person does >> the bulk (> 75%) of the work. I don't think PicoBSD fits into this >> category, so I'd suggest that we don't have a maintainer. > > How about MAINTAINER = freebsd-small, then, to indicate that changes > should be passed by this list? Sounds like a good idea. I think we probably need a comment in there to explain what it means. Do you want to commit it? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message