From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 1:49:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from waru.life.nthu.edu.tw (waru.life.nthu.edu.tw [140.114.98.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BE837B7CD for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:49:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankch@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw) Received: (from frankch@localhost) by waru.life.nthu.edu.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03430 for small@freebsd.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:48:52 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from frankch) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:48:52 +0800 From: Chen Hsiung Chan To: small@freebsd.org Subject: Really small PC Message-ID: <20000416164852.A3412@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is an interesting product from JUMPtec (http://www.jumptec.de) called DIMM-PC. They made a PC on a 144 pin DIMM board (just like the ram card). It is even smaller than a credit card. There is a site (http://wearables.stanford.edu) powered by one of this PC. It's really cool. -- Chen-Hsiung Chan [¸âÂíºµ](BIG5) Department of Life Science http://waru.life.nthu.edu.tw/~frankch/ National Tsing Hua University email: frankch@waru.life.nthu.edu.tw Taiwan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 9:56:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from public.uni-hamburg.de (public.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.32.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C26A37B681 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin@malph.goellnitz.de) Received: from malph.goellnitz.de (max1-169.dialin.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.43.169]) by public.uni-hamburg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA62270; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:56:37 +0200 Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by malph.goellnitz.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00682; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:46:16 +0200 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:46:15 +0200 (MEST) From: Martin Goellnitz To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MINIX utilities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Hi, > > You've seen probably the announcement that the license for Minix has been > changed to BSD. I've had for a long time a couple of utilities ported from > Minix to FreeBSD, among others: After some digging around: No, I did not see it. A still see the old one :-| Where should I have read that?! Sorry for that "legal stuff" disturbance, Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.goellnitz.de/martin/ ''' *** May The Source Be With You *** (o o) --------------------------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 11:38:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5432337B95F for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24918; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004161837.LAA24918@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: MINIX utilities In-Reply-To: from Martin Goellnitz at "Apr 16, 0 06:46:15 pm" To: martin@goellnitz.de (Martin Goellnitz) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:37:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: abial@webgiro.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > After some digging around: No, I did not see it. A still see > the old one :-| Where should I have read that?! I dunno, guys. The license I can find is less restrictive than even the BSD one. Basically it says you can do anything you want as long as you acknowlege the Prentice-Hall copyright. Here 'tis, from http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/LICENSE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Copyright (c) 1987,1997, Prentice Hall All rights reserved. Redistribution and use of the MINIX operating system in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * Neither the name of Prentice Hall nor the names of the software authors or contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS, AUTHORS, AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL PRENTICE HALL OR ANY AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 11:39:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5910B37B7E8 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 626A42DC0A; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:43:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 922297811; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:37:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD5710E17; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:37:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:37:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Martin Goellnitz Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MINIX utilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Martin Goellnitz wrote: > On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > You've seen probably the announcement that the license for Minix has been > > changed to BSD. I've had for a long time a couple of utilities ported from > > Minix to FreeBSD, among others: > After some digging around: No, I did not see it. A still see > the old one :-| Where should I have read that?! > > Sorry for that "legal stuff" disturbance, First, you can read it on slashdot in archival issues. Second, I made sure by sending an email to AST, and got positive reply back. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 17:10: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.got.net (dyn-207-111-241-92.sjc.got.net [207.111.241.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7954637B6D4 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.got.net) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01318 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 15:16:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 15:16:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague Brucem" Message-Id: <200004162216.PAA01318@mail.got.net> To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.4 PicoBSD loader.rc FICL dict space. Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, all, forgive what might be the wrong place for what might just be a newbie note. I've tried to check what I thought would be all the right places, such as the FreeBSD open bug list... Perhaps I didn't go back far enough? Using the FreeBSD 3.4 cd-roms from Walnut Creek, I built PicoBSD, but the loader couldn't make it through the loader.rc FICL script, which got a dictionary out of space error that was confirmed by a "words" command. To boot cleanly I just replaced the display menu stuff with "start", that is, I replaced /usr/src/release/picobsd/forth/loader.rc with: ------ include /boot/loader.4th only forth definitions also support-functions s" /boot/defaults/loader.conf" initialize start ----- Is this normal? Should the FICL dictionary be expanded? Did other FICL stuff grow in 3.4, making the old code no longer fit? Any comments or advice appreciated... Regards, - bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 16 22: 1:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.mmcable.com (fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3793737B5F8 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jss@subatomix.com) Received: from quark ([24.94.234.16]) by mail3.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01bfa82a$107e03d0$10ea5e18@quark> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Subject: Re: MINIX utilities (License) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:02:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I dunno, guys. The license I can find is less restrictive > > > than even the BSD one. Basically it says you can do anything > > > you want as long as you acknowlege the Prentice-Hall copyright. > > > > Look at it. Then look at /usr/src/COPYRIGHT. Then you will be > > enlightened. > > Yep. Like I said, "less restrictive than even the BSD one". Wait just a sec... [beats dead horse with a blunt object] :) Condition 3 in the BSD license has been abolished. The restrictions are equal. This seems to be getting off-topic; I suggest we continue our discussion privately. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a21 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> E+> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 17 10:10:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from buzz.slic.com (eagle.slic.com [216.73.13.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 875A937B93A for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jontow@voodoo.minix.cx) Received: (qmail 23819 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 17:19:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voodoo.minix.cx) (postfix@216.73.11.10) by eagle.slic.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 17:19:34 -0000 Received: by voodoo.minix.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 60D672685; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:08:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:08:09 -0500 From: Jonathan Towne To: Tim Gibson Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minix utilities.. ported.. Message-ID: <20000417120808.A7851@minix.cx> Mail-Followup-To: Tim Gibson , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org References: <20000414142654.A815@minix.cx> <38FB2524.41C67EA6@imc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <38FB2524.41C67EA6@imc.ca>; from tim@imc.ca on Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 10:52:20AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, it'll be up at http://www.minix.cx:8080/~jontow/minixcmd.tar.gz until I find a better location :) On Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 10:52:20AM -0400, Tim Gibson scribbled: # Put it up or send it over. I'm interested in anything that will # save a few bytes of flash memory. # # Tim Gibson # # Jonathan Towne wrote: # > # > Ok, I took the liberty this morning to port /usr/src/commands/simple/* # > (excluding networking, low-level filesystem and other such # > minix-specific stuff) from my minix 2.0.0 machine.. not all is tested, # > and, all of this is a blatant hack, if anyone is interested in this # > collection, i'll put it up on a public ftp somewhere.. Quite a few of # > these need to be cleaned, fleshed, hacked up, etc, and, I make # > absolutely *NO* guarantee that they'll even run.. a few coredump, # > some corrupt tty output temporarily, etc, "buyer beware" :) # > # > In other words, I've done the tedious work, and whoever wants it can # > finish it up :) # > # > - Jonathan Towne # > # > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org # > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 17 10:14: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1E937B6CE for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p27-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.156]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id CAA17559; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:13:46 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <38FB45E4.E7085004@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:12:04 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bruce R. Montague Brucem" Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.4 PicoBSD loader.rc FICL dict space. References: <200004162216.PAA01318@mail.got.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Bruce R. Montague Brucem" wrote: > > Using the FreeBSD 3.4 cd-roms from Walnut Creek, I built > PicoBSD, but the loader couldn't make it through the loader.rc > FICL script, which got a dictionary out of space error that was > confirmed by a "words" command. The FICL dictionary space is pre-allocated, and has been trailing just above the minimum required for a while. Why you ran into a problem, what was it that made it go just over the top, I don't know, but this is a more general design issue I have to tackle, but just can't seem to find time for. :-( -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org dcs@there.is.no.such.thing.as.a.bsdconspiracy.net GPL certainly doesn't meet Janis Joplin's definition of freedom: "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 19 8:12:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from astart2.astart.com (astart2.astart.com [206.71.174.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A53C37BCD9 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from papowell@astart.com) Received: from h4.private (root@h4.private [10.0.0.4]) by astart2.astart.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07179 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from papowell@localhost) by h4.private (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28262; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:07:31 -0700 (PDT) From: papowell@astart.com Message-Id: <200004142307.QAA28262@h4.private> To: grog@lemis.com, jhix@mindspring.com Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD -------- Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 2 00:02:31 2000 > Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:30:33 +0930 > From: Greg Lehey > To: W Gerald Hicks > Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD -------- > Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 > > On Saturday, 1 April 2000 at 14:29:02 -0800, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > PicoBSD's build framework been completely broken for some time now. > > Well, not completely. I committed a Makefile-based build back in > December, and it works. > > > Thanks to Omachonu Ogali (aka missnglnk) there are fixes waiting for > > review in the PR database: > > > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=17737 > > *sigh* I'm sure that these patches improve things, but they're really > bandaids on a conceptually broken build process. I should have looked > earlier and pointed Omachonu at the "custom" target. I see he looked > at it and made a fix, which was due to the change of a kernel option. > I assume this means he found no other problem with it. > > There's no reason (apart from time) why we shouldn't adapt the > Makefile-based build to the other targets. This seems a much better > way to go than to maintain the old build scripts, which aren't really > BSD-like. > > Greg > -- > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > OK, I just KNOW I am going to regret this... I have a make + configure based setup for building picoBSD, using the 3.2 distribution. The reason for the configure stuff was to allow you to have a single source location and build the binaries in a different place. I ran into some problems when I tried to use this with the 4.0-- (i.e. - prerelease) so I dropped the work. I also have a 'femptoBSD' which is tiny tiny tiny - I ripped a whole slew of stuff out of the kernel... You would be AMAZED at what you can do with ifdef's and how much crud ... umm... uh... provisions for future extensions has accumulated. I will be working on this some time soon as our the group who used the previous stuff want to add some features to their systems. Patrick Powell Astart Technologies, papowell@astart.com 9475 Chesapeake Drive, Suite D, Network and System San Diego, CA 92123 Consulting 858-874-6543 FAX 858-279-8424 LPRng - Print Spooler (http://www.astart.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 19 17: 9:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from astart2.astart.com (astart2.astart.com [206.71.174.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE2D37B8C1 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from papowell@astart.com) Received: from h4.private (papowell@h4.private [10.0.0.4]) by astart2.astart.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09929 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from papowell@localhost) by h4.private (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12619 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:09:55 -0700 (PDT) From: papowell@astart.com Message-Id: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, I forgot to tell you where the 'make supported build' stuff was: ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng/picoBSD Ummm... the documentation is kinda rough. I asked the folks who I did the femptoBSD for and they responded: "How much will they pay us for the code?" Trained these guys well, I did. Looks like the answer is no for now. Patrick Powell Astart Technologies, papowell@astart.com 9475 Chesapeake Drive, Suite D, Network and System San Diego, CA 92123 Consulting 858-874-6543 FAX 858-279-8424 LPRng - Print Spooler (http://www.astart.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 19 17:49:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from lepton.subatomix.com (okc-224-168.mmcable.com [24.94.224.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6800837B7E2 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Received: from localhost (jss@localhost) by lepton.subatomix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25708; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: papowell@astart.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - In-Reply-To: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 papowell@astart.com wrote: > > ... 'make supported build' ... > > Looks like the answer is no for now. > I'm also working on a make-based build system. I pitched FreeBSD to my boss for use as an embedded OS, and I succeeded. (Yay!) So, I'm working on what I call the TinyBSD Development Kit (remember -- imitation is flattery). I have been given copyright on the stuff I write, and will of course will release it to the public under a BSD-style license. While my system does not use configure, it does have the following interesting (IMHO) properties: * A hierarchial source tree, of arbitrary depth, that lets child buildtypes inherit/override configuration from their parents. * Support for multiple disks. * Arbitrary slicing/partitioning of disks. * Arbitrary number/type of filesystems, mappable to multiple partitions. * Crunched binaries or shared libraries. * kgzipped kernels, gzipped kernels, or uncompressed kernels * (possibly) build to image or to device While originally intended for building not-quite-pico-sized images (flash disks), it looks like it will be general enough to handle all sorts of sizes, including floppies. Completion level is 20%. I will hopefully finish no more than two weeks from now. Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated. =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a21 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> E+> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 19 17:57:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A9BA37B935 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from albert@achtung.com) Received: (qmail 22796 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0000 Received: from mercury.hosting4u.net (HELO achtung.com) (209.15.2.5) by janus.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 00:51:54 -0000 Received: from achtung.com ([207.13.193.130]) by achtung.com ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:51:51 -0500 Message-ID: <38FE54A6.A0111ACE@achtung.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:51:50 -0700 From: Albert Yang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: papowell@astart.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So will yours be called then "microBSD" or "nanoBSD"? I think that sounds cooler than TinyBSD IMHO. Glad to see the BSD work starting up, wish I had time... Albert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 19 18:15: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from lepton.subatomix.com (okc-224-168.mmcable.com [24.94.224.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285E537B658 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Received: from localhost (jss@localhost) by lepton.subatomix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25758; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:18:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:18:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Albert Yang Cc: papowell@astart.com, freebsd-small Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - In-Reply-To: <38FE54A6.A0111ACE@achtung.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Albert Yang wrote: > So will yours be called then "microBSD" or "nanoBSD"? I think that > sounds cooler than TinyBSD IMHO. I had trouble figuring out what to call it, since the design supports sizes from deciBSD to femptoBSD :). I thought that TinyBSD would be general enough. Any suggestions (still micro- or nano-)? =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a21 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> E+> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 20 2:24:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D3137BE12 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 2B72D2DC07; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:28:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 622137811; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:23:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC1D10E17; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:23:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:23:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 papowell@astart.com wrote: > > > > ... 'make supported build' ... > > > > Looks like the answer is no for now. > > > > I'm also working on a make-based build system. I pitched FreeBSD to my > boss for use as an embedded OS, and I succeeded. (Yay!) So, I'm working > on what I call the TinyBSD Development Kit (remember -- imitation is > flattery). I have been given copyright on the stuff I write, and will of > course will release it to the public under a BSD-style license. > > While my system does not use configure, it does have the following > interesting (IMHO) properties: > > * A hierarchial source tree, of arbitrary depth, that lets child > buildtypes inherit/override configuration from their parents. > > * Support for multiple disks. > > * Arbitrary slicing/partitioning of disks. > > * Arbitrary number/type of filesystems, mappable to multiple > partitions. > > * Crunched binaries or shared libraries. Hmmm... Do you have some patented method for stripping unused parts of shared libs? Otherwise the dynamic version in total occupies much more space than crunched binary. I remember a couple of suggestions in the past (should be in the archive). Do you have some idea how to modularize picobsd better, so that some modules (i.e. programs, libs) can be added/removed without recompiling everything? Do you plan to use kernel modules to give flexibility of adding/removing drivers as needed? The feature list sounds very nice. Keep up the good work! Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 20 9: 5:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from lepton.subatomix.com (okc-224-168.mmcable.com [24.94.224.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C221F37B607 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Received: from localhost (jss@localhost) by lepton.subatomix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26797; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:08:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:08:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 papowell@astart.com wrote: > > > > > > ... 'make supported build' ... > > > > > > Looks like the answer is no for now. > > > > I'm also working on a make-based build system. ... > > Hmmm... Do you have some patented method for stripping unused parts of > shared libs? Otherwise the dynamic version in total occupies much more > space than crunched binary. I remember a couple of suggestions in the past > (should be in the archive) I didn't think of that. Good idea. I'll check that archive. . > Do you have some idea how to modularize picobsd better, so that some > modules (i.e. programs, libs) can be added/removed without recompiling > everything? Hopefully, that will be one result of using a make-based build. > Do you plan to use kernel modules to give flexibility of adding/removing > drivers as needed? The design is flexible enough that the use of kernel modules is just a configuration issue. No special support will be necessary in the build system. > The feature list sounds very nice. Keep up the good work! Thanks! =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a21 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> E+> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 20 14:37:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from sack.ees.com (sack.ees.com [199.2.205.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2059B37B61A for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from myke@ees.com) Received: from localhost (myke@localhost) by sack.ees.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28094 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:36:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from myke@ees.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Holling To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: term server picobsd? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone done work on this lately? I'm going to have a cluster of ~50 text terminals this summer, has anyone (yet) tried to do this with Picobsd and some flavor of multiport serial card? - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 20 19:11:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2424037B522 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:11:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA98462; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:41:33 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:41:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Holling Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: term server picobsd? Message-ID: <20000421114133.B7113@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 20 April 2000 at 14:35:59 -0700, Mike Holling wrote: > Has anyone done work on this lately? I'm going to have a cluster of ~50 > text terminals this summer, has anyone (yet) tried to do this with Picobsd > and some flavor of multiport serial card? That should be pretty much a no-brainer. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 20 19:16: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from sack.ees.com (sack.ees.com [199.2.205.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9525737B5A0 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from myke@ees.com) Received: from localhost (myke@localhost) by sack.ees.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA28599; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from myke@ees.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:14:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Holling To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That should be pretty much a no-brainer. Sure, but I'm thinking of something that will not only drive the card but provide some kind of interface for the terminal users. Ideally they'd have at least ssh and telnet available, and if there's space it might be nice to add some other utilities as well. If someone's already made something like that I'd rather start there... - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 21 2:14:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCF437B887 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA01195; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:44:13 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:44:13 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: papowell@astart.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - Message-ID: <20000421184412.K99014@freebie.lemis.com> References: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 19 April 2000 at 17:09:55 -0700, papowell@astart.com wrote: > > Sorry, I forgot to tell you where the 'make supported build' > stuff was: > > ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng/picoBSD $ fetch ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng/picoBSD fetch: ftp.astart.com: Connection refused You realise that there's already a make-based build in /usr/src/release/picobsd/custom, don't you? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 21 2:15:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155DE37B6DC for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA01233; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:45:20 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:45:20 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: papowell@astart.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - Message-ID: <20000421184519.L99014@freebie.lemis.com> References: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200004200009.RAA12619@h4.private> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 19 April 2000 at 17:09:55 -0700, papowell@astart.com wrote: > > Sorry, I forgot to tell you where the 'make supported build' > stuff was: > > ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng/picoBSD > > Ummm... the documentation is kinda rough. Oops, I forgot to point to picobsd(8) as well. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 21 7:27:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from astart2.astart.com (astart2.astart.com [206.71.174.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B517337B6B4 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:27:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from papowell@astart.com) Received: from h4.private (papowell@h4.private [10.0.0.4]) by astart2.astart.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16229; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from papowell@localhost) by h4.private (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19092; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: papowell@astart.com Message-Id: <200004211426.HAA19092@h4.private> To: jss@subatomix.com, papowell@astart.com Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From jss@lepton.subatomix.com Wed Apr 19 17:49:41 2000 > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:52:44 -0500 (CDT) > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > To: papowell@astart.com > cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 papowell@astart.com wrote: > > > > ... 'make supported build' ... > > > > Looks like the answer is no for now. > > > > I'm also working on a make-based build system. I pitched FreeBSD to my > boss for use as an embedded OS, and I succeeded. (Yay!) So, I'm working > on what I call the TinyBSD Development Kit (remember -- imitation is > flattery). I have been given copyright on the stuff I write, and will of > course will release it to the public under a BSD-style license. > > While my system does not use configure, it does have the following > interesting (IMHO) properties: > > * A hierarchial source tree, of arbitrary depth, that lets child > buildtypes inherit/override configuration from their parents. > > * Support for multiple disks. > > * Arbitrary slicing/partitioning of disks. > > * Arbitrary number/type of filesystems, mappable to multiple > partitions. > > * Crunched binaries or shared libraries. > > * kgzipped kernels, gzipped kernels, or uncompressed kernels > > * (possibly) build to image or to device > > While originally intended for building not-quite-pico-sized images (flash > disks), it looks like it will be general enough to handle all sorts of > sizes, including floppies. > > Completion level is 20%. I will hopefully finish no more than two weeks > from now. > > Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated. > > =============================== > Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) > jss@subatomix.com Use a 'config file' for options. See the /etc/rc.conf for an example of how to do this. Have a set of defaults, and then allow things to be overridden in the defaults file. Have flags that allow you to build images that have: a) MFS file system as part of the system image b) system image that asks for a floppy that contains the MFS image (needed for multiple floppy boots) c) system image that asks for a FILE that contains the MFS image (great for debugging MFS stuff - you just remake the MFS and retry. You can also use NFS and get it remotely) d) 2Meg images that work with CDROMS - you do NOT ask for MFS in this one. Modify the various configuration tools and make files so that you can specify the location of stuff in a file - i.e. cmd -f from_this_file This allows you to put the configuration dependent things in the config file and then you can have the entire tree separate. Use configure to generate the various Makefiles, etc., so that you can build your code in a separate location from the actual source. Combining this with the configure thing allows you to make/build multiple systems from the same image. You can then do 'diffs' or whatever to make sure that things got done right. Pay LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of attention to tracing what is going on, diagnostics, tests for files missing, etc. Remember - most of the users will NOT be experts, and even the experts make mistakes. Big Mistakes. HORRIBLY embarassing mistakes. Like copying the source for a file instead of the executable and then spending a day wondering why it would not boot. Patrick ("Error messages? Isn't 'system fault - core dump' good enough for you?") Powell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 22 13:57:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from lepton.subatomix.com (okc-224-168.mmcable.com [24.94.224.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DD337B644 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Received: from localhost (jss@localhost) by lepton.subatomix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31897; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:00:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jss@lepton.subatomix.com) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:00:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: papowell@astart.com Cc: freebsd-small Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] reviewers needed for repairs to PicoBSD - In-Reply-To: <200004211426.HAA19092@h4.private> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 papowell@astart.com wrote: > > Use a 'config file' for options. See the /etc/rc.conf for an > example of how to do this. Have a set of defaults, and then > allow things to be overridden in the defaults file. What I'm working on is similar to that. I've got most everything centralized into a few configuration files. However, instead of going the defaults-and-override route, I've stolen an idea from OOP. I have a hierarchial tree of configurations (buildtypes, if you will) that is much like a class inheritance hierarchy in OOP. Each buildtype in the tree inherits configuration from its parent, and can override or add to that configuration. There is a single top-level buildtype (equivalent to Object in java or t in Lisp) that everything inherits from. You can do the defaults-and-override thing if you want by limiting your tree to depth 1. > Have flags that allow you to build images that have: > > a) MFS file system as part of the system image I hadn't planned on supporting that, but it probably wouldn't be that hard. > b) system image that asks for a floppy > that contains the MFS image > (needed for multiple floppy boots) That's just a specific thing you can do with your configuration. No special stuff is needed in the makefile or scripts to support that. > c) system image that asks for a FILE that > contains the MFS image > (great for debugging MFS stuff - you just remake > the MFS and retry. You can also use NFS and get > it remotely) Same as last comment. > d) 2Meg images that work with CDROMS - you do NOT > ask for MFS in this one. Same as last comment. > Modify the various configuration tools and make files so that > you can specify the location of stuff in a file - i.e. > > cmd -f from_this_file > > This allows you to put the configuration dependent things in the > config file and then you can have the entire tree separate. I'm not sure how that applies to the way I've got things set up. > Use configure to generate the various Makefiles, etc., so that > you can build your code in a separate location from the actual > source. Combining this with the configure thing allows you to > make/build multiple systems from the same image. Again, this might not apply well, but it's worth checking out. > Pay LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of attention to tracing what is going > on, diagnostics, Agreed. > tests for files missing, etc. Remember - > most of the users will NOT be experts, and even the experts > make mistakes. Big Mistakes. HORRIBLY embarassing mistakes. > Like copying the source for a file instead of the executable > and then spending a day wondering why it would not boot. This is a weak point in the design. By increasing flexibility, things have been made more generalized. The result is that more things have to be specified by the user, and there is a lot more room for error. When I get enough done so that I don't feel embarassed showing it to you all, and if it is accepted as a good thing, then this one area in which we will need to work. =============================== Jeffrey S. Sharp (XorAxAx) jss@subatomix.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/IT/MU d-@ s-:+ a21 C++(++++) UBL+(+++$)> P L+(+++$)> E+> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$> !O M(-) !V PS+ PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+ R(+) tv+ b+ DI++(+++) G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 22 14:34:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD8F37B87E for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eakeyson@earthlink.net) Received: from dell (ip119.stamford13.ct.pub-ip.psi.net [38.32.21.119]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25018 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:33:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Edward W. Akeyson" To: Subject: Iopener & PicoBSD ramblings Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:33:44 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I am trying to develop a FreeBSD image file to flash to the Sandisk (16MB) on the iopener without attaching a hard drive (only for emergency or no other way around it). When making PicoBSD on 3.4-Stable sources, it ends with errors (shown below). I am also wondering if this is the best track- I also have been playing with a 16MB virtual node disk file (geometry same as Sandisk) with a truncated 3.4-stable system added to it. I have some problems and questions- all replies greatly appreciated. 1. Failure of PicoBSD on 3.4-stable system due to errors during crunch process (output below). I am using a 'custom' configuration for the iopener copied from the "net" configuration. My 3.4-S system does not have a 'custom' choice (i understand one of the new things with 4.0), but I copied the 'net' directory and the build script recognizes it fine. Specifically, it fails on passwd, login and ppp during cruch. 'make'-ing in the crunch directory does the same thing. I can get around these errors if I edit them out of the crunch.conf file, but I think that I would need these eventually. I also get the same errors when I try to compile one of the standard PicoBSD types as well. When using PicoBSD for a system with much larger disk than a floppy (e.g., 16MB as on the Sandisk), are there other considerations one needs to keep in mind that I may not be realizing. 2. I have read on the FreeBSD-small mailing list that there are some problems with PicoBSD. Is it better in 4.0-stable? I have been contemplating upgrading my main system to 4.0, and this would likely push me in that direction. 3. Is PicoBSD the best development platform for a 16MB image (space not so tight)- should I move in the direction of hand assembling my own image file without MFS, etc. as done in PicoBSD? If so, what should I be certain to include besides kernel, boot loaders, /etc and any /bin or /sbin files I need. Also, how can I test this image file before putting it on the iopener? I would prefer not to open the thing, unless I absolutely have to, and I want to make sure that the image will boot. I can upgrade from there. 4. I have read all the mailing lists and other documentation that I can find, including the "HOWTO: flash disk image" or something like it from last summer in freebsd-small, but it based on an earlier version of PicoBSD and there seem to be some major differences to the current version (scripts vs. makefile, etc.). Anyone else currently working on an image for the iopener? I would like this to be a stepping-off point for me as I have several other potential projects like this if this works out. I would be happy to share notes with anyone else working on this or similar projects. Thanks for any support or help. Sorry for the extra bandwidth but I would really like to get this going with MY os of choice.... Output of crunch process for PicoBSD: cc -O -pipe -DNOPAM -DRELEASE_CRUNCH -DCRUNCHED_BINARY -DNOSECURE -DNOCRY PT -DNOYPPASSWD -c routed_stub.c ld -dc -r -o routed.lo routed_stub.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/if.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/input.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/main.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/output.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/parms.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/radix.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/rdisc.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/table.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/routed/trace.o crunchide -k _crunched_routed_stub routed.lo echo "int _crunched_ipfw_stub(int argc, char **argv, char **envp){return main(argc,argv,envp);}" >ipfw_stub.c cc -O -pipe -DNOPAM -DRELEASE_CRUNCH -DCRUNCHED_BINARY -DNOSECURE -DNOCRY PT -DNOYPPASSWD -c ipfw_stub.c ld -dc -r -o ipfw.lo ipfw_stub.o /usr/obj/usr/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.o crunchide -k _crunched_ipfw_stub ipfw.lo echo "int _crunched_minigzip_stub(int argc, char **argv, char **envp){return main(argc,argv,envp);}" >minigzip_stub.c cc -O -pipe -DNOPAM -DRELEASE_CRUNCH -DCRUNCHED_BINARY -DNOSECURE -DNOCRY PT -DNOYPPASSWD -c minigzip_stub.c ld -dc -r -o minigzip.lo minigzip_stub.o /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/minigzip/minigzip.o crunchide -k _crunched_minigzip_stub minigzip.lo cc -static -o crunch1 crunch1.o sh.lo test.lo echo.lo hostname.lo ln.lo getty.lo stty.lo login.lo inetd.lo telnetd.lo w.lo msg.lo kget.lo reboot.lo init.lo ifconfig.lo df.lo sps.lo ns.lo vm.lo cat.lo cp.lo rm.lo mknod.lo chmod.lo chown.lo mkdir.lo ls.lo syslogd.lo sysctl.lo route.lo pwd_mkdb.lo dev_mkdb.lo mount.lo mount_msdos.lo umount.lo kill.lo mount_std.lo natd.lo pwd.lo telnet.lo more.lo ppp.lo date.lo passwd.lo mount_cd9660.lo mount_nfs.lo ping.lo traceroute.lo routed.lo ipfw.lo minigzip.lo -lncurses -lmytinfo -lipx -lz -lpcap -lalias -lwrap -ledit -luti l -lmd -lcrypt -lmp -lgmp -lm -lkvm -lgnuregex -ltelnet -lradius login.lo: In function `auth_pam': login.lo(.text+0xf30): undefined reference to `pam_start' login.lo(.text+0xf42): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.text+0xf5c): undefined reference to `pam_set_item' login.lo(.text+0xf6e): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.text+0xf90): undefined reference to `pam_set_item' login.lo(.text+0xfa2): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.text+0xfc6): undefined reference to `pam_authenticate' login.lo(.text+0xff2): undefined reference to `pam_get_item' login.lo(.text+0x102d): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.text+0x1055): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.text+0x1073): undefined reference to `pam_end' login.lo(.text+0x1085): undefined reference to `pam_strerror' login.lo(.data+0x98): undefined reference to `misc_conv' ppp.lo: In function `ID0NgMkSockNode': ppp.lo(.text+0x12468): undefined reference to `NgMkSockNode' ppp.lo: In function `ether_Write': ppp.lo(.text+0x27084): undefined reference to `NgSendData' ppp.lo: In function `ether_Read': ppp.lo(.text+0x270b6): undefined reference to `NgRecvData' ppp.lo: In function `ether_MessageIn': ppp.lo(.text+0x272db): undefined reference to `NgRecvMsg' ppp.lo: In function `ether_Create': ppp.lo(.text+0x27856): undefined reference to `NgSendMsg' ppp.lo(.text+0x27898): undefined reference to `NgRecvMsg' ppp.lo(.text+0x27ab2): undefined reference to `NgSendMsg' ppp.lo(.text+0x27bab): undefined reference to `NgSendMsg' ppp.lo(.text+0x27c55): undefined reference to `NgSendMsg' passwd.lo: In function `local_passwd': passwd.lo(.text+0x379): undefined reference to `local_password' passwd.lo(.text+0x38d): undefined reference to `local_password' passwd.lo: In function `main': passwd.lo(.text+0x562): undefined reference to `yp_domain' passwd.lo(.text+0x568): undefined reference to `yp_server' passwd.lo(.text+0x575): undefined reference to `yp_server' passwd.lo(.text+0x58a): undefined reference to `yp_server' passwd.lo(.text+0x596): undefined reference to `force_old' passwd.lo(.text+0x5f3): undefined reference to `use_yp' passwd.lo(.text+0x60a): undefined reference to `yp_passwd' passwd.lo(.text+0x650): undefined reference to `yp_in_pw_file' passwd.lo(.text+0x662): undefined reference to `yp_passwd' passwd.lo: In function `pw_error': passwd.lo(.text+0xe96): undefined reference to `_use_yp' *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 22 19: 5:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD6637B71F for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA77958; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA28097; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004230204.UAA28097@harmony.village.org> To: "Edward W. Akeyson" Subject: Re: Iopener & PicoBSD ramblings Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:33:44 EDT." References: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:04:29 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message "Edward W. Akeyson" writes: : tight)- should I move in the direction of hand assembling my own image file : without MFS, etc. as done in PicoBSD? If so, what should I be certain to : include besides kernel, boot loaders, /etc and any /bin or /sbin files I : need. Also, how can I test this image file before putting it on the iopener? : I would prefer not to open the thing, unless I absolutely have to, and I : want to make sure that the image will boot. I can upgrade from there. I've squeezed a useful embedded system into 12MB or so. : 4. I have read all the mailing lists and other documentation that I can : find, including the "HOWTO: flash disk image" or something like it from last : summer in freebsd-small, but it based on an earlier version of PicoBSD and : there seem to be some major differences to the current version (scripts vs. : makefile, etc.). Anyone else currently working on an image for the iopener? : I would like this to be a stepping-off point for me as I have several other : potential projects like this if this works out. I would be happy to share : notes with anyone else working on this or similar projects. You might want to look at http://people.freebsd.org/~imp/diskprep to see how I make the initial filesystem on my CF devices. BTW, do you have a new iopener, or an old, hackable one? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message