From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 11:11:29 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 11:11:26 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@hub.freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC7E37B6A9; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joe@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eBIJBO321132; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:11:24 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200012181911.eBIJBO321132@freefall.freebsd.org> To: peter.jeremy@ALCATEL.COM.AU, joe@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: kern/15870: PicoBSD Kernel link fails Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Synopsis: PicoBSD Kernel link fails State-Changed-From-To: feedback->closed State-Changed-By: joe State-Changed-When: Mon Dec 18 11:07:25 PST 2000 State-Changed-Why: Requested feedback wasn't received. I don't believe that this is an issue anymore. If it is please open another PR. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=15870 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 11:48:53 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 11:48:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from netau1.alcanet.com.au (ntp.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821B737B404; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au (mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au [139.188.23.1]) by netau1.alcanet.com.au (8.9.3 (PHNE_18979)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13277; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:48:45 +1100 (EDT) Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.2-32 #37641) with ESMTP id <01JXVO1A7JOWE7YUSW@cim.alcatel.com.au>; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:48:23 +1100 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBIJmg758332; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:48:42 +1100 (EST envelope-from jeremyp) Content-return: prohibited Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:48:42 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: kern/15870: PicoBSD Kernel link fails In-reply-to: <200012181911.eBIJBO321132@freefall.freebsd.org>; from joe@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 11:11:24AM -0800 To: joe@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20001219064842.B54775@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <200012181911.eBIJBO321132@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2000-Dec-18 11:11:24 -0800, joe@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: >Requested feedback wasn't received. It was sent: On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:55:39 +1100, I wrote: >To: joe@FreeBSD.ORG >Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG ... >On 2000-Nov-05 04:41:22 -0800, joe@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: >> Is it still an issue? > >I've not tried using the new build process (I actually haven't >tried building a PicoBSD kernel for many months). At this stage, >I don't have the time to verify the current status of this problem. > >If the relevant build process has changed, it's reasonably likely >that the bug got cleaned up in the process. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 12:16:52 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 12:16:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A939137B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 4696831EE; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:16:50 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:16:50 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Peter Jeremy Cc: joe@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/15870: PicoBSD Kernel link fails Message-ID: <20001218201650.B14216@tao.org.uk> References: <200012181911.eBIJBO321132@freefall.freebsd.org> <20001219064842.B54775@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001219064842.B54775@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>; from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:48:42AM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thank Peter. It wasn't attached to the PR. Not to worry - I think that the problem was been resolved. Joe On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:48:42AM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2000-Dec-18 11:11:24 -0800, joe@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: > >Requested feedback wasn't received. > > It was sent: > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:55:39 +1100, I wrote: > >To: joe@FreeBSD.ORG > >Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG > .. > >On 2000-Nov-05 04:41:22 -0800, joe@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: > >> Is it still an issue? > > > >I've not tried using the new build process (I actually haven't > >tried building a PicoBSD kernel for many months). At this stage, > >I don't have the time to verify the current status of this problem. > > > >If the relevant build process has changed, it's reasonably likely > >that the bug got cleaned up in the process. > > Peter > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 13:12:40 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 13:12:34 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6674637B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6F54E57481; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:12:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:12:35 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@freebsd.org Cc: Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net>; from dbutter@wireless.net on Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 10:04:20PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [sent to -small too] On Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 10:04:20PM -0800, Devin Butterfield scribbled: | Jordan Hubbard wrote: | > > Is there any work in progress to support running FreeBSD on ARM | > > processors? If not, are there any plans to? I would be very interested | > > in helping out with such an effort. I would love to have FreeBSD running | > > on my iPAQ PocketPC. :) | > | > No work in progress, no plans. Would you be interested in heading | > such a project? That's what's needed. :) I would be quite interested. But do we have the resouces and the man-hours to handle IA-64/KA-64/PPC/Alpha/StrongARM at the same time? I am very interested in the PPC and StrongARM port, but there are so few of us on -ppc... Perhaps the first step would be to start a freebsd-arm@freebsd.org mailing list? | Unfortunately, I don't think that I have enough knowledge to "head" such | a project. I can certainly help in the effort though. I'm familiar with | the FreeBSD kernel and have written drivers but I really know little | about ARM or what it would take to get the FreeBSD kernel to boot on an | ARM. | | I guess we could start by using the data collected by the NetBSD group's | effort to run on ARM. Is there anyone here who is familiar with NetBSD's | ARM project? | | Anyone here interested in such a project (and perhaps who has some prior | knowledge of what would be involved in realizing such a beast)? Yes, I am! :) However, imho we should finish the FreeBSD/PPC project first. The StrongARM is quite similiar to the PPC processors. If we get the loader and init working, the rest will be a breeze. We could simply build a cross-gcc on ARM/Linux and the rest is making sure that everything compiles. Intel recently supplied me with the Brutus, Assabet, and the EBSA boards in addition to a compiler/debugger suite for a research project. IIRC, NetBSD doesn't have the newer StrongARM SA-11xx ports. And that's why we have to work from ARM/Linux. The good thing is that we do not need SMP on FreeBSD/ARM/StrongARM. (PowerPC still needs SMP support though.) The most important decision now would be: Should we concentrate on the PPC port first? Or should we go at each port simultaneously? With PicoBSD not working very well in -CURRENT and the advent of large sized flash media (SANDISK/CompactFlash, SmartMedia). Can we begin to maybe have a "make buildsmallworld" target? (i.e. a combination of NO_STATIC=yes and other suitable options) In addition, -CURRENT has become very much larger. I know about the "embedded systems are customized, so cut it down yourself" argument. However, what if it's still large after we cut it down to the bare minimum? Also, what about /dev/random seeding problems? -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 13:19:12 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 13:19:07 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF65437B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBILJ3s09270; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:19:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA94431; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:19:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:12:35 CST." <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> References: <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:19:02 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: : IIRC, NetBSD doesn't have the newer StrongARM SA-11xx ports. : And that's why we have to work from ARM/Linux. In conversations that I had with an unnamed vendor a while ago, the newer parts should be just a few days of casual effort to incorporate into NetBSD. The glue chips for the eval boards likely would be more work, but the mods for the new CPU would be farily minimal. : With PicoBSD not working very well in -CURRENT and the advent of : large sized flash media (SANDISK/CompactFlash, SmartMedia). : Can we begin to maybe have a "make buildsmallworld" target? : (i.e. a combination of NO_STATIC=yes and other suitable options) Maybe. I have a script that will effectively do a installsmallworld target. The guts of the script are a for loop that does (cd $FreeBSDSrcDir make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk -f Makefile.inc1 \ hierarchy DESTDIR=$1 NOMAN=yes (cd etc ; make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk \ distribution DESTDIR=$1 NOMAN=yes) for i in ${FreeBSDProgramDirs}; do echo "==> $i" test -d $i && (cd $i ; make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk \ install -DNOINFO -DNOMAN DESTDIR=$1 -DNOPROFILE) done) which lets you tweak things to year heart's delight. Every time I go to put this script up, I run into the "oh, but I want it to do X Y and Z before posting." problem. Maybe I should just post it. : In addition, -CURRENT has become very much larger. I know about : the "embedded systems are customized, so cut it down yourself" : argument. However, what if it's still large after we cut it down : to the bare minimum? Also, what about /dev/random seeding problems? There are lots of ways to seed /dev/random in an embdeeded system. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 14:25:13 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 14:25:10 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AC537B402; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00535; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:20:40 GMT (envelope-from rjs) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:20:40 GMT Message-Id: <200012182220.WAA00535@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: imp@village.org Cc: keichii@peorth.iteration.net, dbutter@wireless.net, freebsd-small@freebsd.org, jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> (message from Warner Losh on Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:19:02 -0700) Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: >In message <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C >. Wu" writes: >: IIRC, NetBSD doesn't have the newer StrongARM SA-11xx ports. >: And that's why we have to work from ARM/Linux. >In conversations that I had with an unnamed vendor a while ago, the >newer parts should be just a few days of casual effort to incorporate >into NetBSD. The glue chips for the eval boards likely would be more >work, but the mods for the new CPU would be farily minimal. The mods to recognize the new CPU are only "a few days casual effort", but writing the extra device drivers has taken several weeks. I have been doing plenty of other stuff as well, so it wasn't a huge amount of work, but there are still several more drivers to be written. Porting FreeBSD to the SA-110 or Xscale 80200 would be a fair bit easier than porting to the SA-1110 or Cotulla, since the first two are PCI bus devices. I would be interested in working on FreeBSD/ARM, but I would like to get the SA-11x0 NetBSD/arm32 port finished first. Robert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 14:27:45 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 14:27:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8DB37B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0953B57482; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:27:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:27:32 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Warner Losh Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Warner Losh , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 02:19:02PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 02:19:02PM -0700, Warner Losh scribbled: | In message <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C | . Wu" writes: | : IIRC, NetBSD doesn't have the newer StrongARM SA-11xx ports. | : And that's why we have to work from ARM/Linux. | | In conversations that I had with an unnamed vendor a while ago, the | newer parts should be just a few days of casual effort to incorporate | into NetBSD. The glue chips for the eval boards likely would be more | work, but the mods for the new CPU would be farily minimal. I will look into this. | : With PicoBSD not working very well in -CURRENT and the advent of | : large sized flash media (SANDISK/CompactFlash, SmartMedia). | : Can we begin to maybe have a "make buildsmallworld" target? | : (i.e. a combination of NO_STATIC=yes and other suitable options) | | Maybe. I have a script that will effectively do a installsmallworld | target. The guts of the script are a for loop that does | | (cd $FreeBSDSrcDir | make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk -f Makefile.inc1 \ | hierarchy DESTDIR=$1 NOMAN=yes | (cd etc ; make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk \ | distribution DESTDIR=$1 NOMAN=yes) | for i in ${FreeBSDProgramDirs}; do | echo "==> $i" | test -d $i && | (cd $i ; make -m ${FreeBSDSrcDir}/share/mk \ | install -DNOINFO -DNOMAN DESTDIR=$1 -DNOPROFILE) | done) Do you use the gcc embedded optimizations? | which lets you tweak things to year heart's delight. Every time I go | to put this script up, I run into the "oh, but I want it to do X Y and | Z before posting." problem. Maybe I should just post it. Just an idea/question: Can we possibly use crunchgen to generate a big binary for userland tools only? Then we can drop in new binaries with ease. However, I think that simply buying a 100mb SANDISK is easier. :) | : In addition, -CURRENT has become very much larger. I know about | : the "embedded systems are customized, so cut it down yourself" | : argument. However, what if it's still large after we cut it down | : to the bare minimum? Also, what about /dev/random seeding problems? | | There are lots of ways to seed /dev/random in an embdeeded system. Right, I simply hope that Mark Murray can allow us to drop in things like GPS signal strength and radio background noise. Many embedded devices have antennas that could be put to good use. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 16:15: 1 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 16:14:57 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from db.wireless.net (adsl-gte-la-216-86-194-70.mminternet.com [216.86.194.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8554D37B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:14:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from wireless.net (dbm.wireless.net [192.168.0.2]) by db.wireless.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA36231; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:59:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dbutter@wireless.net) Sender: dbutter@db.wireless.net Message-ID: <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:14:10 -0800 From: Devin Butterfield X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > > [sent to -small too] > > I would be quite interested. But do we have the resouces and the man-hours > to handle IA-64/KA-64/PPC/Alpha/StrongARM at the same time? I am > very interested in the PPC and StrongARM port, but there are so few of > us on -ppc... Perhaps the first step would be to start a > freebsd-arm@freebsd.org mailing list? It would seem to me that the logical approach would be to pursue the project for which there is the most interest; for which there are people interested in working on it. A mailing list certainly seems like a good way to get started. I for one am interested in the StrongARM port. Of course, I have an iPAQ not a PPC so there lies the source of my bias. :) > However, imho we should finish the FreeBSD/PPC project first. > The StrongARM is quite similiar to the PPC processors. If we > get the loader and init working, the rest will be a breeze. > We could simply build a cross-gcc on ARM/Linux and the rest is > making sure that everything compiles. > > Intel recently supplied me with the Brutus, Assabet, and the EBSA > boards in addition to a compiler/debugger suite for a research project. I'd be willing to use my iPAQ as a guinea pig. ;-) > The most important decision now would be: > Should we concentrate on the PPC port first? Or should we go at each > port simultaneously? Well, if there are enough people with PCC's that are interested in helping with the effort then perhaps pursuing the PPC port first would make more sense. I don't have a PPC so I couldn't help out there... If the decision is to pursue a StrongARM port then you can count me in. -- Regards, Devin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 16:21:35 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 16:21:32 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42E737B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJ0LRs10036; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:21:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA95681; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:21:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200012190021.RAA95681@harmony.village.org> To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:27:32 CST." <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> References: <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:21:27 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: : Do you use the gcc embedded optimizations? No. Not directly. My install script assumes that : | which lets you tweak things to year heart's delight. Every time I go : | to put this script up, I run into the "oh, but I want it to do X Y and : | Z before posting." problem. Maybe I should just post it. : : Just an idea/question: : Can we possibly use crunchgen to generate a big binary for userland tools : only? Then we can drop in new binaries with ease. No. I will not do that. The biggest reason is that it is an unbelievable PITA to manitain if you have other applications to load onto the box that are outside of the FreeBSD tree. I tried doing that once upon a time and found that with shared libraries for everything, and 16M or larger parts that it wasn't necessary at all since the savings was so meager. : However, I think that simply buying a 100mb SANDISK is easier. :) If you need 100MB parts, you are doing something wrong. We're running on 32M parts with 10-20M free depending on the application(s) we layer onto the device here at Timing Soltuions. And that's without using filesystem level compression. If we could run only out of memory, we'd be able to fit on a 8M part with room to spare. 1.44MB is too small, but 16M is way fat. The base system is a smidge over 7M. You could trim that to about 6M for standard /etc/rc files and about 4M if you roll your own and use the tineware tools from PicoBSD and don't need anything else (eg router, ppp-on-a-stick, etc). Our application requires a control program that's fairly large because it has a lot to do, which is why we chose the 32M parts. Also, for a long time the smallest flash I could build was 16M before we put anything else on it. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 16:35:56 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 16:35:52 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C2637B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1DC1157483; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:35:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:35:49 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Warner Losh , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <200012190021.RAA95681@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012190021.RAA95681@harmony.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 05:21:27PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 05:21:27PM -0700, Warner Losh scribbled: | In message <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: | : Just an idea/question: | : Can we possibly use crunchgen to generate a big binary for userland tools | : only? Then we can drop in new binaries with ease. | | No. I will not do that. The biggest reason is that it is an | unbelievable PITA to manitain if you have other applications to load | onto the box that are outside of the FreeBSD tree. I tried doing that | once upon a time and found that with shared libraries for everything, | and 16M or larger parts that it wasn't necessary at all since the | savings was so meager. Right, I sensed that maintenance would be a great problem too. It's just a novelty idea. | : However, I think that simply buying a 100mb SANDISK is easier. :) | | If you need 100MB parts, you are doing something wrong. We're running | on 32M parts with 10-20M free depending on the application(s) we layer | onto the device here at Timing Soltuions. And that's without using | filesystem level compression. If we could run only out of memory, | we'd be able to fit on a 8M part with room to spare. I agree with you that 100MB is overkill, but I think the cost has gone down enough to consider even a full powered embedded system with complete documentation and other added functionality. .oO (IRCing from a router...) *joke* Would 20mb be a comfortable target for "make buildsmallworld installsmallworld" ? The build would have to be interactive. And the interactive build can record all the options/choices done by the user for future builds. That leaves room for everyone to use at least 4mb on 24mb CF media, and 12mb on 32mb CF media. | 1.44MB is too small, but 16M is way fat. The base system is a smidge | over 7M. You could trim that to about 6M for standard /etc/rc files | and about 4M if you roll your own and use the tineware tools from | PicoBSD and don't need anything else (eg router, ppp-on-a-stick, | etc). Our application requires a control program that's fairly large | because it has a lot to do, which is why we chose the 32M parts. | Also, for a long time the smallest flash I could build was 16M before I think space for logging, stored backups of updates could be of good use. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Dec 18 16:40:20 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 18 16:40:16 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9047437B400; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJ0eCs10161; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:40:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA95960; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:40:11 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200012190040.RAA95960@harmony.village.org> To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:35:49 CST." <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> References: <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <200012190021.RAA95681@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:40:11 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: : Would 20mb be a comfortable target for : "make buildsmallworld installsmallworld" ? The build would have to : be interactive. And the interactive build can record all the : options/choices done by the user for future builds. That : leaves room for everyone to use at least 4mb on 24mb CF media, : and 12mb on 32mb CF media. I don't wnat it to be interactive at all. I would support having a configuration program that would be interactive, but the install should just do it. I also do not expect to have a special buildsmallworld target. Just a smallinstall target since there are many tools that should be built that I don't want to short circuit. Installing just a subset isn't a problem at all. There are also some minor problems in the current build system that need to be reoslved for having a runtime-only install for some components. These are mostly nits, but they can be worked around. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 8: 4:13 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 08:04:09 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7331037B402 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18841 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Dec 2000 16:04:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:04:07 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Warner Losh Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001219170407.B18137@rohrbach.de> Reply-To: karsten@rohrbach.de References: <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <200012182119.OAA94431@harmony.village.org> <20001218162732.A70076@peorth.iteration.net> <200012190021.RAA95681@harmony.village.org> <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> <200012190040.RAA95960@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200012190040.RAA95960@harmony.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 05:40:11PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: karsten@rohrbach.de Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG just call it "installmoon" ;> *chuckle* /k Warner Losh(imp@village.org)@Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 05:40:11PM -0700: > In message <20001218183549.B9025@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: > : Would 20mb be a comfortable target for > : "make buildsmallworld installsmallworld" ? The build would have to > : be interactive. And the interactive build can record all the > : options/choices done by the user for future builds. That > : leaves room for everyone to use at least 4mb on 24mb CF media, > : and 12mb on 32mb CF media. > > I don't wnat it to be interactive at all. I would support having a > configuration program that would be interactive, but the install > should just do it. > > I also do not expect to have a special buildsmallworld target. Just a > smallinstall target since there are many tools that should be built > that I don't want to short circuit. Installing just a subset isn't a > problem at all. > > There are also some minor problems in the current build system that > need to be reoslved for having a runtime-only install for some > components. These are mostly nits, but they can be worked around. > > Warner > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- > Why marry a virgin? If she wasn't good enough for the rest of them > then she isn't good enough for you. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- http://www.webmonster.de -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 10:57: 3 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 10:56:59 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E4937B400; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1820357308; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:56:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:56:58 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Devin Butterfield Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net>; from dbutter@wireless.net on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 04:14:10PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 04:14:10PM -0800, Devin Butterfield scribbled: | "Michael C . Wu" wrote: | > The most important decision now would be: | > Should we concentrate on the PPC port first? Or should we go at each | > port simultaneously? | | Well, if there are enough people with PCC's that are interested in | helping with the effort then perhaps pursuing the PPC port first would | make more sense. I don't have a PPC so I couldn't help out there... | | If the decision is to pursue a StrongARM port then you can count me in. I'm definitely interested in both StrongARM and PPC. (and so are very many people) My understanding is that FreeBSD *wants* a FreeBSD/ARM, but lack the resources/man-power to do so. I'd prefer to see an official decision on the above by someone (hint hint -core :)) though. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 11:18:21 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 11:18:18 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.popsite.net (smtp.popsite.net [216.126.128.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D5937B400; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from javagear.com (5613-004.001.popsite.net [64.24.60.4]) by smtp.popsite.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76F7FE94; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:18:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:19:12 -0600 From: Paul Becke Reply-To: pbecke@javagear.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been working for several months to port NetBSD to a new StrongArm platform. I currently am using the Intel Assabet as my development platform. Based on my experience with NetBSD, I think that I could be of assistance in initiating a FreeBSD port. I actually do most of my development unsing an Arm cross compliler on a FreeBSD platform. What does it take to start up a new mailing list for proting to the Arm? (Who do I need to contact?) If we can identify a handfull of people who are interrested, I think we could make some quick progress. Paul Becke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 11:51:44 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 11:51:42 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCD837B402 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0247D5730A; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:51:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:51:40 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Paul Becke Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Paul Becke , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com>; from pbecke@javagear.com on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 01:19:12PM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 01:19:12PM -0600, Paul Becke scribbled: | I have been working for several months to port NetBSD to a new StrongArm | platform. I currently am using the Intel Assabet as my development I do not see much difference between the Brutus and the Assabet. Do you? | platform. Based on my experience with NetBSD, I think that I could be of | assistance in initiating a FreeBSD port. I actually do most of my | development unsing an Arm cross compliler on a FreeBSD platform. What does Do you have a shell script or a FreeBSD Ports skeleton for a cross compiler? The first thing to do would be to establish a toolchain. If you can send me the necessary information to build "your" crossgcc, I will get the port done and send it into usr/ports/. For those interest in the ARM/StrongARM port and lacking hardware, buying a Psion seris7 or a Compaq iPaQ would be the el cheapo^W^Weconomical solution. You would have a little more trouble with reseting, but the other functions work. If you get a CF slot and a CF disk for the iPaQ and a serial connection, then you are set for development Do wavelan devices work on NetBSD/ARM? | it take to start up a new mailing list for proting to the Arm? (Who do I | need to contact?) If we can identify a handfull of people who are postmaster@freebsd.org and/or jmb@freebsd.org I think. I will email postmaster after this email. | interrested, I think we could make some quick progress. Woot!! :) Count me in! -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 12:14:23 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 12:14:18 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from p.intothewind.cx (adsl-141-157-89-56.baltmd.adsl.bellatlantic.net [141.157.89.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A491C37B400; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebsd.org (pooh [192.168.1.3]) by p.intothewind.cx (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJKC7M90473; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:12:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from patrick@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <3A3FC191.8C6AD28E@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:14:09 -0500 From: Patrick Gardella X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 04:14:10PM -0800, Devin Butterfield scribbled: > | "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > | > The most important decision now would be: > | > Should we concentrate on the PPC port first? Or should we go at each > | > port simultaneously? > | > | Well, if there are enough people with PCC's that are interested in > | helping with the effort then perhaps pursuing the PPC port first would > | make more sense. I don't have a PPC so I couldn't help out there... > | > | If the decision is to pursue a StrongARM port then you can count me in. > > I'm definitely interested in both StrongARM and PPC. (and so are very > many people) My understanding is that FreeBSD *wants* a FreeBSD/ARM, > but lack the resources/man-power to do so. I'd prefer to see an > official decision on the above by someone (hint hint -core :)) though. It's mainly a matter of interest (interested, dedicated people) rather than an official decision. I would say "go for it", and if it comes about, then great. If not, oh, well. Patrick patrick@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 12:17: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 12:16:59 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from p.intothewind.cx (adsl-141-157-89-56.baltmd.adsl.bellatlantic.net [141.157.89.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A86D37B400; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebsd.org (pooh [192.168.1.3]) by p.intothewind.cx (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJKF4M90480; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:15:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from patrick@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <3A3FC242.C403F7E4@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:17:06 -0500 From: Patrick Gardella X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pbecke@javagear.com, jmb@freebsd.org Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Becke wrote: > > What does it take to start up a new mailing list for proting to the Arm? (Who do I > need to contact?) Jonathan Bressler is our postmaster (jmb@freebsd.org). I've added him to this message in hopes that he sees this. I haven't seen much of him lately... Course, it's always better to just start work on the project, and the web pages, mailing lists, etc will follow. Patrick patrick@freebsd.org P.S. If you don't hear anything back, let me know and I'll give him a call. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 12:57:30 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 12:57:28 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.popsite.net (smtp.popsite.net [216.126.128.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C96C37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from javagear.com (5613-004.001.popsite.net [64.24.60.4]) by smtp.popsite.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783BFFE94; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:57:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:58:22 -0600 From: Paul Becke Reply-To: pbecke@javagear.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I do not see much difference between the Brutus and the Assabet. > Do you? I have never looked at the Brutus so I don't know. > > > | platform. Based on my experience with NetBSD, I think that I could be of > | assistance in initiating a FreeBSD port. I actually do most of my > | development unsing an Arm cross compliler on a FreeBSD platform. What does > > Do you have a shell script or a FreeBSD Ports skeleton for a cross compiler? > The first thing to do would be to establish a toolchain. If you can > send me the necessary information to build "your" crossgcc, I will > get the port done and send it into usr/ports/. I do have shell scripts. One version produces code for a generic aout and another produces code for the NetBSD aout. I think for FreeBSD we would want to move to elf right away. I'll work to clean up the scripts a bit and then stick them on a ftp server. I'll send out a URL when I have them ready. > > For those interest in the ARM/StrongARM port and lacking hardware, buying > a Psion seris7 or a Compaq iPaQ would be the el cheapo^W^Weconomical > solution. You would have a little more trouble with reseting, but the > other functions work. If you get a CF slot and a CF disk for the iPaQ > and a serial connection, then you are set for development > An iPaQ is probably the best platform to work on for porting FreeBSD. As you point out, it is relatively inexpensive and readily available, and Compaq seems to be relatively forth coming with technical information. I have heard that is it is very difficult, if not impossible to get information on the Psion. > > Do wavelan devices work on NetBSD/ARM? I am not familiar with wavelan devices. So far I have ignored much of the Networking code in NetBSD because my particular application does not require it. Paul Becke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 13: 4:20 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 13:04:18 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E466337B402 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJL4Hs15390 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA03456 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:04:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200012192104.OAA03456@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: StrongARM support? To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:58:22 CST." <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> References: <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:04:16 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> Paul Becke writes: : > Do wavelan devices work on NetBSD/ARM? : : I am not familiar with wavelan devices. So far I have ignored much : of the Networking code in NetBSD because my particular application : does not require it. IIRC, there have been reports of wavelan working on hpcmips. Since mips tends to be a hard platform to write device drivers for. A number of assumptions that hold true for the wintel box don't hold true at all (cache coherency, PA <-> VA translation, etc). I'd strongly suspect that the wi driver works. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 14:40:25 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 14:40:22 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E894637B400 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 79D805730A; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:40:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:40:21 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Paul Becke Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001219164021.B1835@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Paul Becke , Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com>; from pbecke@javagear.com on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:58:22PM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:58:22PM -0600, Paul Becke scribbled: | > I do not see much difference between the Brutus and the Assabet. | > Do you? | | I have never looked at the Brutus so I don't know. IMHO and from what I have heard from Intel, they are moving people away from the Brutus and the CPU (SA-1100?) and moving in favor of the Assebet. I think most of the work should go in that direction. | > | platform. Based on my experience with NetBSD, I think that I could be of | > | assistance in initiating a FreeBSD port. I actually do most of my | > | development unsing an Arm cross compliler on a FreeBSD platform. What does | > | > Do you have a shell script or a FreeBSD Ports skeleton for a cross compiler? | > The first thing to do would be to establish a toolchain. If you can | > send me the necessary information to build "your" crossgcc, I will | > get the port done and send it into usr/ports/. | | I do have shell scripts. One version produces code for a generic aout and | another produces code for the NetBSD aout. I think for FreeBSD we would want to | move to elf right away. I'll work to clean up the scripts a bit and then stick | them on a ftp server. I'll send out a URL when I have them ready. Cool. Please Cc: me when you do. As I have said, I'll get the crosscompiler port done. | > For those interest in the ARM/StrongARM port and lacking hardware, buying | > a Psion seris7 or a Compaq iPaQ would be the el cheapo^W^Weconomical | > solution. You would have a little more trouble with reseting, but the | > other functions work. If you get a CF slot and a CF disk for the iPaQ | > and a serial connection, then you are set for development | > | | An iPaQ is probably the best platform to work on for porting FreeBSD. As you | point out, it is relatively inexpensive and readily available, and Compaq seems | to be relatively forth coming with technical information. I have heard that is | it is very difficult, if not impossible to get information on the Psion. Right, and you also get a PDA with an iPaQ. | > Do wavelan devices work on NetBSD/ARM? | | I am not familiar with wavelan devices. So far I have ignored much of the | Networking code in NetBSD because my particular application does not require it. Thanks anyway :) -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 21:49: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 21:49:00 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from db.wireless.net (adsl-gte-la-216-86-194-70.mminternet.com [216.86.194.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3983037B400 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from wireless.net (dbm.wireless.net [192.168.0.2]) by db.wireless.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA38544; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dbutter@wireless.net) Sender: dbutter@db.wireless.net Message-ID: <3A404865.41B31B61@wireless.net> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:49:25 -0800 From: Devin Butterfield X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pbecke@javagear.com Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > An iPaQ is probably the best platform to work on for porting FreeBSD. As you > point out, it is relatively inexpensive and readily available, and Compaq seems > to be relatively forth coming with technical information. I have heard that is > it is very difficult, if not impossible to get information on the Psion. Actually the iPAQs are very tough to find now too. I remember hearing that Compaq is sorting out its inventory issues but it's hard to say when they will start appearing in stores again. You can still find them on the web if you search, and the only stores I've seen that still have them in stock are in the UK (and the price is higher than in the U.S.). I guess you could look on ebay too, but you're definitely going to pay more than retail. :( I agree though that the iPAQ is still the cheap way to get StrongARM hardware to work with. I loaded the handhelds.org linux distribution on my iPAQ to experiment with. X is working well too...very cool! I'd much prefer FreeBSD though. :) Yes, Compaq is indeed very forth coming with hardware data. To my knowledge, they are working closely with the linux folks with hopes of maybe eventually selling them with linux pre-installed. Just what I've heard... Anyway, I'd be glad to help with porting/writing device drivers for FreeBSD/StrongARM on the iPAQ. -- Regards, Devin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Dec 19 23:57:16 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 19 23:57:13 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from kiew.egd.igd.fhg.de (kiew.egd.igd.fhg.de [192.102.170.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92BE37B400; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from penguin.egd.igd.fhg.de ([192.102.170.145]) by kiew.egd.igd.fhg.de (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA53D1; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:57:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:59:11 +0100 (CET) From: "Thomas Runge" X-Sender: runge@penguin.egd.igd.fhg.de To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? In-Reply-To: <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Michael C . Wu wrote: > many people) My understanding is that FreeBSD *wants* a FreeBSD/ARM, > but lack the resources/man-power to do so. I'd prefer to see an There is a german saying "Schuster, bleib bei Deinen Leisten", which means something like "Only do, what you are good at". FreeBSD is good at the i386 side. Crossplatform is not really one of FreeBSD's strongest sides. Thats where NetBSD is *the* player. And there is a port to that Compaq ipaq thingy almost finished. And to RiscPC and DNARD (Shark) and CATS and Acorn A7000 and some intel developer boards, just to mention (Strong)ARM based systems supported by NetBSD. At the end a FreeBSD port will be based on the NetBSD port. Why should we split the BSD camp even more? But thats just my humble opinion. Btw. I run FreeBSD on my PC and NetBSD on my Shark. So, I do know and love both sides. -- Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 0: 5:33 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 00:05:32 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.popsite.net (smtp.popsite.net [216.126.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124CD37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from javagear.com (5613-004.001.popsite.net [64.24.60.4]) by smtp.popsite.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34339E3; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:05:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A406883.14546EC6@javagear.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:06:27 -0600 From: Paul Becke Reply-To: pbecke@javagear.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> <20001219164021.B1835@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael You can down load my scripts for generating a Cross compiler for the Arm from. I have used the resulting compiler to successfully compile the NetBSD kernel. on a FreeBSD machine. ftp://64.24.60.4/pub/toolchain.tgz Let me know if you have any problems. I built the tools back in August, and I am the only one who has used the scripts so I suggest that you test them before puting them in the FreeBSD ports collection. It was my first attempt at making a Port. I have also put some of my thoughts about porting FreeBSD to the ARM at: http://www.javagear.com/freebsd/index.html Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 1:19:59 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 01:19:54 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC2037B400; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9987357487; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:19:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:19:54 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Thomas Runge Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001220031954.A19117@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Thomas Runge , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-small@freebsd.org References: <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from runge@rostock.zgdv.de on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:59:11AM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:59:11AM +0100, Thomas Runge scribbled: | On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Michael C . Wu wrote: | | > many people) My understanding is that FreeBSD *wants* a FreeBSD/ARM, | > but lack the resources/man-power to do so. I'd prefer to see an | | There is a german saying "Schuster, bleib bei Deinen Leisten", which | means something like "Only do, what you are good at". FreeBSD is good | at the i386 side. Crossplatform is not really one of FreeBSD's | strongest sides. | | Thats where NetBSD is *the* player. And there is a port to that | Compaq ipaq thingy almost finished. And to RiscPC and | DNARD (Shark) and CATS and Acorn A7000 and some intel developer | boards, just to mention (Strong)ARM based systems supported | by NetBSD. It was my understanding from BSDCon2000 that we are targeting more platforms. Let's not cling to traditions. Windows/MacOS has a more popular GUI than X-win, so we should not use X-win and just have console applications? And let's face it, x86 embedded systems sometimes do not do well for some applications. I refuse to believe that we should live in the safe nest of x86-32 only. There is also a Chinese saying "learning is like rowing a boat upstream; if you do not advance, you will go backwards." If we stay in the x86 market forever, then we are limited in growth by the architecture. (x86-32 is approaching the end of its life in a few years, right?) | At the end a FreeBSD port will be based on the NetBSD port. Why | should we split the BSD camp even more? Split what? There is no split as far as I can see. FreeBSD/ARM can help NetBSD/ARM, and vice versa. It might even help the BSD camps converge. It all depends on how you look at the glass of water. Is it half empty or is it half full? -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 1:27: 9 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 01:27:08 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EDD37B400; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E79FB57487; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:27:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:27:05 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Paul Becke , jeh@freebsd.org Cc: Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001220032705.B19117@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Paul Becke , jeh@freebsd.org, Devin Butterfield , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> <20001219164021.B1835@peorth.iteration.net> <3A406883.14546EC6@javagear.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A406883.14546EC6@javagear.com>; from pbecke@javagear.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:06:27AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:06:27AM -0600, Paul Becke scribbled: | You can down load my scripts for generating a Cross compiler for the Arm from. I have | used the resulting compiler to successfully compile the NetBSD kernel. on a FreeBSD | machine. | | ftp://64.24.60.4/pub/toolchain.tgz | | Let me know if you have any problems. I built the tools back in August, and I am the I have changed it significantly to conform with FreeBSD new practices. The new versions are in http://iteration.net/~keichii/arm-toolchain.shar Drop the devel/arm* into /usr/ports/devel/ They work for me, but i think you should try too. If you would like, I can be the maintainer and take the load off you. I cc'ed jeh@freebsd.org because he is our cross toolchain maintainer. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 6:26: 5 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 06:26:03 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.popsite.net (smtp.popsite.net [216.126.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8647037B402 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from javagear.com (5613-004.001.popsite.net [64.24.60.4]) by smtp.popsite.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D72CE; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:25:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A40C19C.223BA03C@javagear.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:26:36 -0600 From: Paul Becke Reply-To: pbecke@javagear.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? References: <78656.976769151@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <3A3862E4.5A46E14C@wireless.net> <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> <20001219164021.B1835@peorth.iteration.net> <3A406883.14546EC6@javagear.com> <20001220032705.B19117@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael > If you would like, I can be the maintainer and take the load off you. I have no problem with you being the maintainer. I will be setting up a new FreeBSD box in about a week. I'll try any changes you have made to the port on it when I get it set up. We should look at modifying the script to produce an ELF file. If you have the time you might try changing the -aout argument to -elf and see what happens. It may just work. I beleive that Arm-Linux uses ELF so it may be already set up for ELF. Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 11:46:56 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 11:46:54 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C5537B400; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBKJkps20615; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:46:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA10857; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:46:50 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200012201946.MAA10857@harmony.village.org> To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Cc: Thomas Runge , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:19:54 CST." <20001220031954.A19117@peorth.iteration.net> References: <20001220031954.A19117@peorth.iteration.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:46:50 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20001220031954.A19117@peorth.iteration.net> "Michael C . Wu" writes: : It was my understanding from BSDCon2000 that we are targeting : more platforms. It is my sense of core that core would support new architectures if they make sense. To make sense, the architecutre must be widely deployed (or about to be widely deployed). It must have enough brains that a port can be undertaken w/o rewriting large parts of the system (the MMU requirement). It must have enough of a life to make it worth while. And it must have a base of users that are willing to support it in the long haul. By long haul, I mean multiple years. StrongARM generally fits into this model. What is lacking is a good prototype. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Dec 20 13:56:38 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 20 13:56:37 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D047437B402 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EE01657386; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:56:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:56:38 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Paul Becke Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM support? Message-ID: <20001220155638.A50955@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Paul Becke , freebsd-small@freebsd.org References: <20001218151235.D69041@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3EA852.A668B554@wireless.net> <20001219125657.A94588@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FB4AF.106716C6@javagear.com> <20001219135140.B29492@peorth.iteration.net> <3A3FCBEE.144E4DA5@javagear.com> <20001219164021.B1835@peorth.iteration.net> <3A406883.14546EC6@javagear.com> <20001220032705.B19117@peorth.iteration.net> <3A40C19C.223BA03C@javagear.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A40C19C.223BA03C@javagear.com>; from pbecke@javagear.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:26:36AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:26:36AM -0600, Paul Becke scribbled: | > If you would like, I can be the maintainer and take the load off you. | I have no problem with you being the maintainer. Done. :) | I will be setting up a new FreeBSD box in about a week. I'll try any changes you have made | to the port on it when I get it set up. | | We should look at modifying the script to produce an ELF file. If you have the time you | might try changing the -aout argument to -elf and see what happens. It may just work. I | beleive that Arm-Linux uses ELF so it may be already set up for ELF. http://iteration.net/~keichii/arm-toolchain.shar for the latest version. I changed it to arm-elf and it works. :) No matter what ARM/Linux uses, I think it is best to stay within FreeBSD norm of clinging to ELF. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Dec 21 20:26:40 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 21 20:26:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE0537B400; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eBM4Qbv63773; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200012220426.eBM4Qbv63773@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: a question To: small@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:26:37 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rizzo@iguana.aciri.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i have a question related to a picobsd port. For building picobsd images with ssh+sshd+scp, the only way which seems feasible is to use a modified version of the ssh1 port (mods are done in order to build a crunched binary which in turn is crunched again together with the other picobsd apps). I have been thinking a bit on the best approach, and it seems that a feasible one would be to have a specialized port e.g. ports/security/ssh-picobsd with the picobsd-specific patches. As a matter of fact, it might be reasonable to have a ports/picobsd category where one would put this kind of things -- e.g. "small" versions of applications which are in the source tree or in the ports. Opinions ? cheers luigi P.S. for the curious: ssh+sshd+scp crunched together take 190KB uncompressed, versus the over 500KB for openssh and friends using the same method. Another example of a 'fat' app is tcpdump, which (compressed) grew from ~48KB to ~100KB between 3.4 and 4.2 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 0: 2:27 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 00:02:26 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from donkey.sinodynamics.com.tw (donkey.sinodynamics.com.tw [203.69.20.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0673137B402 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra (libra.sinodynamics.com.tw [192.168.0.3]) by donkey.sinodynamics.com.tw (8.11.1/8.9.3) with SMTP id eBM82Ib48696 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:02:23 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from Andy.Tien@sinodynamics.com.tw) From: "Andy Tien" To: Subject: How to make a picoBSD on a diskette more the 18 sector per track Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:02:26 +0800 Message-ID: <000001c06bed$862ea940$0300a8c0@libra.sinodynamics.com.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I have try to compile a pre can net version picoBSD under FreeBSD 4.2 on floppy size 1476 kB which is 82 tracter 18 sertot / tract , when I try using the same setting just change the floppy size to 1722 kB , can be compiling save to diskette , but when using this diskette to boot just get the message boot 0 fd(0,a) ,then No UFS Can any one have any ideal about this ? Best Regards, Andy Tien support engineer Sinodynamics Enterprise Co., Ltd. E-mail : Andy.Tien@sinodynamics.com.tw TEL: 2792-2440 Simply rule make thing possible To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 3:20:10 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 03:20:08 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC83B37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 03:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 11A353224; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:01:44 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:01:44 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a question Message-ID: <20001222110144.A498@tao.org.uk> References: <200012220426.eBM4Qbv63773@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012220426.eBM4Qbv63773@iguana.aciri.org>; from rizzo@aciri.org on Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 08:26:37PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 08:26:37PM -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > i have a question related to a picobsd port. > > For building picobsd images with ssh+sshd+scp, the only way which > seems feasible is to use a modified version of the ssh1 port > (mods are done in order to build a crunched binary which in turn > is crunched again together with the other picobsd apps). > > I have been thinking a bit on the best approach, and it seems > that a feasible one would be to have a specialized port e.g. > ports/security/ssh-picobsd with the picobsd-specific patches. > > As a matter of fact, it might be reasonable to have a > ports/picobsd category where one would put this kind of > things -- e.g. "small" versions of applications which are > in the source tree or in the ports. > > Opinions ? > > cheers > luigi > > P.S. for the curious: ssh+sshd+scp crunched together take 190KB > uncompressed, versus the over 500KB for openssh and friends using > the same method. Another example of a 'fat' app is tcpdump, which > (compressed) grew from ~48KB to ~100KB between 3.4 and 4.2 On the other hand is there anyone who knows openssh who would be willing to help make it smaller? It seems to me to be better to use code that's already in the tree if possible. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 5: 6:27 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 05:06:24 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from sys05.1nettw.net (1nettw.net [207.87.68.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5907137B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from devm01 ([207.87.68.92]) by sys05.1nettw.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA40884 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:11:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jbebeau@1nettw.net) Message-ID: <0f9601c06c1a$0128e260$5c4457cf@devm01> From: "Jon Bebeau" To: Subject: Small FreeBSD Implementation questions Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:20:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0F93_01C06BF0.17DB8780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0F93_01C06BF0.17DB8780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I'm looking at moving FreeBSD into a small system to serve as a Wireless = router. I've been using FreeBSD in i386 in an ISP, mostly for Sendmail, = DNS and Radius some Apache too. Now I'd like to squeeze it into a = PC/104 or something like that, with only a "RamDisk" for storage. I = need a console port, Ethernet port, PCMCIA port and enough horsepower to = boot, drive the few devices and route TCP/IP traffic. I've been looking at NetBSD, OpenBSD and decided to stay with FreeBSD. = The Small FreeBSD Home Page has been helpful but I'd like to find = someone who has pushed FreeBSD into a process controller type hardware. Any ideas? Jon Bebeau Tampa, FL ------=_NextPart_000_0F93_01C06BF0.17DB8780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,
 
I'm looking at moving FreeBSD into a = small system=20 to serve as a Wireless router.  I've been using FreeBSD in i386 in = an ISP,=20 mostly for Sendmail, DNS and Radius some Apache too.  Now I'd like = to=20 squeeze it into a PC/104 or something like that, with only a "RamDisk" = for=20 storage.  I need a console port, Ethernet port, PCMCIA port and = enough=20 horsepower to boot, drive the few devices and route TCP/IP = traffic.
 
I've been looking at NetBSD, OpenBSD = and decided to=20 stay with FreeBSD.  The Small FreeBSD Home Page has been helpful = but I'd=20 like to find someone who has pushed FreeBSD into a process controller = type=20 hardware.
 
Any ideas?
 
Jon Bebeau
Tampa, FL
------=_NextPart_000_0F93_01C06BF0.17DB8780-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 11:55:40 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 11:55:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B5C37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eBMJtON78497; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:55:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200012221955.eBMJtON78497@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: Re: a question In-Reply-To: <20001222110144.A498@tao.org.uk> from Josef Karthauser at "Dec 22, 2000 11: 1:44 am" To: joe@tao.org.uk (Josef Karthauser) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:55:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: rizzo@aciri.org, small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rizzo@iguana.aciri.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > P.S. for the curious: ssh+sshd+scp crunched together take 190KB > > uncompressed, versus the over 500KB for openssh and friends using > > the same method. Another example of a 'fat' app is tcpdump, which ... > On the other hand is there anyone who knows openssh who would be > willing to help make it smaller? > It seems to me to be better to use code that's already in the tree > if possible. Ideally yes, but people might object in polluting the code in the source tree just for picobsd purposes. Adapting the kernel is one thing, but for applications it is not such a big issue to have two source trees when necessary. Take the tcpdump example -- the version in 3.4 is 48KB when included in the build. The version in 4.2 is 100KB, as it has lot more "printers". Trimming it requires #ifdef'ing out parts in many source files to remove functionality, in the end it becomes a very diffent thing and it is easier to just use the older version. Ditto for *ssh -- even worse there because the code is very ugly and badly structured, and taking pieces away is not trivial. cheers luigi ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 13: 9:41 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 13:09:39 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.mho.net (smtp.mho.net [206.26.105.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5CC37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from benlt.mho.com ([64.58.3.39]) by smtp.mho.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:09:38 -0700 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20001222140028.00affdc0@pop3.mho.com> X-Sender: ben@pop3.mho.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:09:29 -0700 To: small@freebsd.org From: Ben Schumacher Subject: Re: a question In-Reply-To: <200012220426.eBM4Qbv63773@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:26 PM 12/21/2000 -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: >I have been thinking a bit on the best approach, and it seems >that a feasible one would be to have a specialized port e.g. >ports/security/ssh-picobsd with the picobsd-specific patches. > >As a matter of fact, it might be reasonable to have a >ports/picobsd category where one would put this kind of >things -- e.g. "small" versions of applications which are >in the source tree or in the ports. > >Opinions ? Honestly, I think this sounds like a great idea. I've been struggling for sometime to figure out a way to get ssh small enough to easily fit into a picobsd image I've been working on to no avail. I hadn't actually thought (silly me) of checking out the port vs. the OpenSSH version, but if it really is as small as you say it is, it perfect for me. And modifying a version of it to be even more tweaked/smaller sounds like a great idea. I'm sure there are a number of ports that would benefit from that kind of attention. I haven't really looked at the code for the ssh port, but I would certainly be willing to participate in this project in anyway I could. - Ben To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 17:22: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 17:22:01 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131D437B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eBN1LvC80509; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:21:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200012230121.eBN1LvC80509@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: ssh for picobsd (was Re: a question) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20001222140028.00affdc0@pop3.mho.com> from Ben Schumacher at "Dec 22, 2000 2: 9:29 pm" To: ben@mho.com (Ben Schumacher) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:21:57 -0800 (PST) Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rizzo@iguana.aciri.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I have been thinking a bit on the best approach, and it seems > >that a feasible one would be to have a specialized port e.g. > >ports/security/ssh-picobsd with the picobsd-specific patches. ... > Honestly, I think this sounds like a great idea. I've been struggling for > sometime to figure out a way to get ssh small enough to easily fit into a ok, i have put the "port" for ssh1 (both for 3.4 and 4.2) at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/picobsd/ This (and yesterday's commits to remove the loader, and some tcpdump patches) let me build a system on 4.2 which has ssh,sshd,scp, natd, ppp (same on 3.4R -- actually there i think there is even room for a splash screen :) I am a bit hesitant to commmit this as a port, because i got no feedback at all from the ports guys -- but maybe today everybody has gone shopping, and i better go too! cheers and merry christmas luigi ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 19:42: 0 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 19:41:58 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549C137B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 826BC57499; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:42:02 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:42:02 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Jon Bebeau Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Small FreeBSD Implementation questions Message-ID: <20001222214202.A71580@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Jon Bebeau , freebsd-small@freebsd.org References: <0f9601c06c1a$0128e260$5c4457cf@devm01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <0f9601c06c1a$0128e260$5c4457cf@devm01>; from jbebeau@1nettw.net on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:20:50AM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:20:50AM -0500, Jon Bebeau scribbled: | I'm looking at moving FreeBSD into a small system to serve as | a Wireless router. I've been using FreeBSD in i386 in an ISP, | mostly for Sendmail, DNS and Radius some Apache too. Now I'd | like to squeeze it into a PC/104 or something like that, with | only a "RamDisk" for storage. I need a console port, Ethernet | port, PCMCIA port and enough horsepower to boot, drive the few | devices and route TCP/IP traffic. A 486 or a pentium would do the job. Considering that you probably want encryption on the wireless network, a pentium in a small motherboard form factor would be good. Usually, for this type of systems, we use a flash-type device such as a CompactFlash disk. The other devices can be added on. In addition, you might simply find a motherboard maker who is still making notebook style motherboard for Pentiums. It has been agreed that a 32mb or 24mb CF disk would do fine running 4.x or 3.x. Read the -small archives, should be of help to you. --Michael -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 22:32:40 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 22:32:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from onyx.extra.dp.ua (onyx.extra.dp.ua [195.248.182.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524D137B69B for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from white@localhost) by onyx.extra.dp.ua (8.10.0/8.10.0/Who.Cares) id eBN6VuV24031; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:31:56 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:31:56 +0200 From: Alexander Prohorenko To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: Ben Schumacher , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ssh for picobsd (was Re: a question) Message-ID: <20001223083156.A23723@extra.dp.ua> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20001222140028.00affdc0@pop3.mho.com> <200012230121.eBN1LvC80509@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.9i In-Reply-To: <200012230121.eBN1LvC80509@iguana.aciri.org>; from rizzo@aciri.org on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:21:57PM -0800 Organization: Extra Solutions X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.7 i86pc Sender: white@onyx.extra.dp.ua Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:21:57PM -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > >I have been thinking a bit on the best approach, and it seems > > >that a feasible one would be to have a specialized port e.g. > > >ports/security/ssh-picobsd with the picobsd-specific patches. [] > ok, i have put the "port" for ssh1 (both for 3.4 and 4.2) at > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/picobsd/ > This (and yesterday's commits to remove the loader, and some tcpdump > patches) let me build a system on 4.2 which has ssh,sshd,scp, natd, > ppp (same on 3.4R -- actually there i think there is even room for > a splash screen :) Well, first of all, this sounds great. But for the second - which ssh are you using? Is it OpenSSH or ssh software from ssh.com? The license from ssh.com does not allow us to use its software in commercial purposes, as far as I remember. > I am a bit hesitant to commmit this as a port, because i got no > feedback at all from the ports guys -- but maybe today everybody > has gone shopping, and i better go too! As far as my opinion it concerns, I think that idea of keeping special ports of "tiny" versions of some software is great. -- Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions http://extra.com.ua "Good day to be alive, sir" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Dec 22 22:37:13 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 22 22:37:12 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053FF37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eBN6b4v81928; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:37:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200012230637.eBN6b4v81928@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: Re: ssh for picobsd (was Re: a question) In-Reply-To: <20001223083156.A23723@extra.dp.ua> from Alexander Prohorenko at "Dec 23, 2000 8:31:56 am" To: white@extra.dp.ua (Alexander Prohorenko) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:37:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: rizzo@aciri.org, ben@mho.com, small@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rizzo@iguana.aciri.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, first of all, this sounds great. But for the second - which ssh > are you using? Is it OpenSSH or ssh software from ssh.com? The license > from ssh.com does not allow us to use its software in commercial purposes, > as far as I remember. it's the one from /usr/ports/security/ssh, and the license is not that bad , and it is ok for my purposes as i only want to build freely available picobsd images. cheers luigi ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Dec 23 1:18:20 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 23 01:18:18 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from oneplusone.ch (oneplusone.ch [194.191.122.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FA537B400 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by oneplusone.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id KAA11324; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:18:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ast@marabu.ch) Received: from marabu.marabu.ch (marabu.marabu.ch [192.168.21.3]) by marabu.ch (8.9.3/2000102801) with ESMTP id KAA82572; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:14:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ast@marabu.ch) Received: by marabu.marabu.ch (8.7.5/20001028-ast-8.3) id KAA27335; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:14:27 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200012230914.KAA27335@marabu.marabu.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v124.8483.6) Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <20001222214202.A71580@peorth.iteration.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b6) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.124.8483.6) From: Adrian Steinmann Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:14:22 +0100 To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: Re: Small FreeBSD Implementation questions Cc: Jon Bebeau , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <0f9601c06c1a$0128e260$5c4457cf@devm01> <20001222214202.A71580@peorth.iteration.net> X-Organization: Steinmann Consulting, Apollostrasse 21, 8032 Zurich X-Phone-Numbers: Switzerland, Tel +41 1 380 30 83 Fax +41 1 380 30 85 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Google for "PC/104", "Embedded Systems", or "Small Board Computer" and you will find more links than you'll ever need. These are a few sites that are about "small" platforms: http://wearables.stanford.edu/ http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html http://www.aaeon.com/html/pcm4894.htm http://www.advantech.com/ http://www.ampltd.com/processors.html http://www.ampro.com/products/products.htm http://www.arcom.co.uk/Elan104.html http://www.arnoldco.com/bookpc/bookpc.html http://www.brightstareng.com/ http://www.calibri.net/ http://www.compulab.co.il/486core.htm http://www.diamondsystems.com/ http://www.dspdesign.com/ec586d.htm http://www.eagle.co.za/4823.html http://www.eepd.com/t5.htm http://www.emjembedded.com/ http://www.fica.com/products/systems/Databook/Sahara1000/Sahara1000.stm http://www.globalamericaninc.com/ http://www.inside.dk/ http://www.interpromicro.com/sy-saharaII2000spec.html http://www.jumptec.com/dimmpcf.html http://www.megatel.ca/pages/press.html http://www.pc104.com/ http://www.rtdusa.com/cmx586.htm http://www.siteplayer.com/docs/SitePlayer1x1.pdf http://www.smos.com/ http://www.soekris.com/ http://www.tme-inc.com/ http://www.versalogic.com/Ds/VSBC6.htm http://www.web-tronics.com/webtronics/com486cpuboa.html http://www.zfmicro.com/ I have been very happy with fanless FreeBSD boxes built with http://www.advantech.com/products/PCM-5820.asp http://www.advantech.com/products/MBPC-200.asp including either a laptop disk or 32MB Compact Flash (for firewalls). Adrian Steinmann _________________________________________________________________________ Dr. Adrian Steinmann Steinmann Consulting Apollostrasse 21 8032 Zurich Tel +41 1 380 30 83 Fax +41 1 380 30 85 Mailto:ast@marabu.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Dec 23 4:11:41 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 23 04:11:40 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFA537B400 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 48AE03224; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:11:30 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:11:30 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a question Message-ID: <20001223121130.A621@tao.org.uk> References: <20001222110144.A498@tao.org.uk> <200012221955.eBMJtON78497@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012221955.eBMJtON78497@iguana.aciri.org>; from rizzo@aciri.org on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:55:24AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:55:24AM -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > .. > > On the other hand is there anyone who knows openssh who would be > > willing to help make it smaller? > > It seems to me to be better to use code that's already in the tree > > if possible. > [cut] > Take the tcpdump example -- the version in 3.4 is 48KB when included > in the build. The version in 4.2 is 100KB, as it has lot more > "printers". Trimming it requires #ifdef'ing out parts in many source > files to remove functionality, in the end it becomes a very diffent > thing and it is easier to just use the older version. > > Ditto for *ssh -- even worse there because the code is very > ugly and badly structured, and taking pieces away is not trivial. Perhaps we should just add any pico-specifiy tools to the tinyware subdirectory. BTW, if anyone fancies a small project, sps in tinyware is currently broken under -current. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Dec 23 9:51:32 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 23 09:51:31 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBD137B400 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id EEF7D3170; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 17:51:15 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 17:51:15 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: dreamwvr Cc: Luigi Rizzo , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a question Message-ID: <20001223175115.D621@tao.org.uk> References: <20001222110144.A498@tao.org.uk> <200012221955.eBMJtON78497@iguana.aciri.org> <20001223121130.A621@tao.org.uk> <3A44EB36.AD25E141@dreamwvr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A44EB36.AD25E141@dreamwvr.com>; from dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com on Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 11:13:11AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 11:13:11AM -0700, dreamwvr wrote: > hi all, > Quick question .. i have a lanmedia T1 card that i would like > to > use to replace a CISCO router.. does picoBSD support frame-encapsulation? If you can do it with a full FreeBSD release it should be possible to shoehorn it onto a PicoBSD floppy. Joe > > TIA > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Dec 23 12:57:59 2000 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 23 12:57:56 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E5437B400 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 637063224; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:57:35 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:57:35 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: dreamwvr Cc: Luigi Rizzo , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a question Message-ID: <20001223205735.A54578@tao.org.uk> References: <20001222110144.A498@tao.org.uk> <200012221955.eBMJtON78497@iguana.aciri.org> <20001223121130.A621@tao.org.uk> <3A44EB36.AD25E141@dreamwvr.com> <20001223175115.D621@tao.org.uk> <3A45124C.46C834A6@dreamwvr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A45124C.46C834A6@dreamwvr.com>; from dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com on Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:59:56PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm sure that if you've got the info and the inclination to write some C routines for encoding and decoding frame-enc, there are many people who would be glad to help you create a netgraph node for it. Once that's done it should be easy to plug into the network stacks. Joe On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:59:56PM -0700, dreamwvr wrote: > hi Josef, > THX for the info here is what i was thinking about doing is > writing a driver for both FreeBSD and OpenBSD to allow support > for frame-enc learned the hard way that my tier provider for some > strange reason uses frame-enc on a non-frame network.. therefore > everything only almost works.. thought huh well maybe picobsd does.. > Then if it doesn't after a rather LARGE learning curve maybe i > will be able to write some driver support .. any links to writing drivers > and / or book references would be appreciated. Wanted to be able > to write drivers for BSD oses.. sort of a learn as i go approach for > fun actually in my spare time whatever that is;-)) > Best Regards - dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 11:13:11AM -0700, dreamwvr wrote: > > > hi all, > > > Quick question .. i have a lanmedia T1 card that i would like > > > to > > > use to replace a CISCO router.. does picoBSD support frame-encapsulation? > > > > If you can do it with a full FreeBSD release it should be possible to > > shoehorn it onto a PicoBSD floppy. > > > > Joe > > > > > > TIA > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message