From owner-freebsd-sparc Mon Jun 5 21:24:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from agnostic.union.cynic.net (24-29-157-20.nyc.rr.com [24.29.157.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CBF37B55E for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@cynic.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by agnostic.union.cynic.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08534; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:24:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: agnostic.union.cynic.net: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:24:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Curt Sampson X-Sender: cjs@agnostic.union.cynic.net To: Adam Cc: wonko@entropy.tmok.com, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 3 Jun 2000, Adam wrote: > Thanks, hmm, are they really ps/2 or just the same shape? They're just the same shape. One possibility would be to use USB. You could plop a PCI USB card into one of the PCI Ultras, but your X server would then have to support that. Perhaps some of the NetBSD stuff could be ported over to help with that. A USB PC card should `just work' on a sparc (well, it's not unlikely you'd have to do some fairly trivial hacking, but maybe not), and NetBSD actually changes all mouse protocols to a common one in the kernel, which the XFree86 then uses. (This is how you can plug a USB/2 mouse into a running system and it just starts working in parallel with your PS/2 mouse.) But I know that, under NetBSD at least, we use a different X server for the Sun, so there's probably some work to be done there. And, of course, all this USB stuff is moot on an SS2. But again, many PS/2 mice will also now operate on a serial port, which an SS2 does have. Hmmm. (Personally, I really want to use my Sun-3 keyboards on my PCs. I'd even give up the wheel for that.) cjs -- Curt Sampson 917 532 4208 http://www.netbsd.org Human speech is like a cracked tin kettle, on which we hammer out tunes to make bears dance when we long to move the stars. --Gustave Flaubert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 7:15:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from entropy.tmok.com (entropy.tmok.com [204.17.163.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C51F37C137 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wonko@entropy.tmok.com) Received: (from wonko@localhost) by entropy.tmok.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00247; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:22:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Hechinger Message-Id: <200006061422.KAA00247@entropy.tmok.com> Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Curt Sampson at "Jun 6, 2000 0:24: 9 am" To: cjs@cynic.net (Curt Sampson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: bsdx@looksharp.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com X-Useless-Header: why? because i can. X-Organization: The Ministry of Knowledge X-Dreams: an OpenWin that is based on current MIT X11 releases X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Curt Sampson drunkenly mumbled... > On Sat, 3 Jun 2000, Adam wrote: > > > Thanks, hmm, are they really ps/2 or just the same shape? > > They're just the same shape. no they aren't, what he was asking me about was the ps/2 ports on the SUN clone box we have. sun put a ps/2 controller onto the AX series motherboards. i wouldn't recommend ever getting anything based on the AX motherboards, we have 5 AX-MP systems, and they SUCK. sun throttled the I/O down to nothing on these boxes. > One possibility would be to use USB. You could plop a PCI USB card > into one of the PCI Ultras, but your X server would then have to > support that. if someone could do this, i would be interested in the results. unfortunately i can't justify doing this to our PCI sun boxes, and all my sun hardware i have at home is SBus (and really old) i'd be both interested in if Solaris and NetBSD both support this or not. > And, of course, all this USB stuff is moot on an SS2. But again, > many PS/2 mice will also now operate on a serial port, which an > SS2 does have. hmm, interesting, do you know off hand if Solaris supports serial mice (i know it used to when it was SunOS4 since the old sun3 hardware had serial mice) > (Personally, I really want to use my Sun-3 keyboards on my PCs. > I'd even give up the wheel for that.) i'm with you, if i could get a type 5 on my PC i would be in heaven (it's got all the keys in the right places, stupid PC keyboards) although i did have an LK250 hooked up to my one PC that was running FreeBSD. very nice keyboard. too bad a dropped a coffee mug on it and killed it. if anyone knows where to get LK250 keyboards please let me know, they are great. -brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 8: 5:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from master.blink.com (master.blink.com [166.84.150.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE5937B972 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@cynic.net) Received: from fmh.fw.px.fulton.blink.com (fmh.fw.px.fulton.blink.com [166.84.150.183]) by master.blink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C091372D; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Curt Sampson X-Sender: cjs@fmh.fw.eu.fulton.blink.com To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com Cc: bsdx@looksharp.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200006061422.KAA00247@entropy.tmok.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Brian Hechinger wrote: > Curt Sampson drunkenly mumbled... > hmm, interesting, do you know off hand if Solaris supports serial mice (i know > it used to when it was SunOS4 since the old sun3 hardware had serial mice) Actually, the keyboard and mouse ports are still serial ports, at least on the SS20: zs0 at obio0 slot 0 offset 0x100000 level 12 softpri 6 zstty0 at zs0 channel 0 (console i/o) zstty1 at zs0 channel 1 zs1 at obio0 slot 0 offset 0x0 level 12 softpri 6 kbd0 at zs1 channel 0 ms0 at zs1 channel 1 The connector just has a different shape. You can use a type-3 mouse and keyboard on modern machines if you just build the right cable. cjs -- Curt Sampson 917 532 4208 http://www.netbsd.org Human speech is like a cracked tin kettle, on which we hammer out tunes to make bears dance when we long to move the stars. --Gustave Flaubert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 9: 8:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from entropy.tmok.com (entropy.tmok.com [204.17.163.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFD837B82B for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:08:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wonko@entropy.tmok.com) Received: (from wonko@localhost) by entropy.tmok.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01420; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:15:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Hechinger Message-Id: <200006061615.MAA01420@entropy.tmok.com> Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Curt Sampson at "Jun 6, 2000 11: 5:36 am" To: cjs@cynic.net (Curt Sampson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: bsdx@looksharp.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com X-Useless-Header: why? because i can. X-Organization: The Ministry of Knowledge X-Dreams: an OpenWin that is based on current MIT X11 releases X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Curt Sampson drunkenly mumbled... > > Actually, the keyboard and mouse ports are still serial ports, at least > on the SS20: > > zs0 at obio0 slot 0 offset 0x100000 level 12 softpri 6 > zstty0 at zs0 channel 0 (console i/o) > zstty1 at zs0 channel 1 > zs1 at obio0 slot 0 offset 0x0 level 12 softpri 6 > kbd0 at zs1 channel 0 > ms0 at zs1 channel 1 > > The connector just has a different shape. You can use a type-3 mouse > and keyboard on modern machines if you just build the right cable. learn something new every day, that's the idea anyway. :) so let me see if i've got this straight then.. until today, i though the kybd/mouse ran on a serial bus and the two serial ports had their own controlers. but from what i see here, there are two serial buses (or maybe one gargantuan serial controller), the serial ports share one, and the kybd/mouse share the other, so in actuality, the only difference is the connector that is hung off of it. interesting. so theroretically serial mice should work regardless of the OS. the wheel on the other hand.... cheers, -brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 9:26:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from master.blink.com (master.blink.com [166.84.150.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE46D37B712 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:26:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjs@cynic.net) Received: from fmh.fw.px.fulton.blink.com (fmh.fw.px.fulton.blink.com [166.84.150.183]) by master.blink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B026113739; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:26:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Curt Sampson X-Sender: cjs@fmh.fw.eu.fulton.blink.com To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com Cc: bsdx@looksharp.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200006061615.MAA01420@entropy.tmok.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Brian Hechinger wrote: > but from what i see here, there are two serial buses... Right. The hardware, at any rate, looks to the OS as if it's a pair of Z8530 serial controllers, each with two ports. One Z8530 is a pair of serial ports, the other is the keyboard and mouse. (This was how you could kludge a 3/60 to have four serial ports--by removing the mouse and keyboard and doing some clever wiring.) > the serial ports > share one, and the kybd/mouse share the other, so in actuality, the only > difference is the connector that is hung off of it. Right. > interesting. so > theroretically serial mice should work regardless of the OS. the wheel > on the other hand.... Even the wheel should work fine. So long as your driver supports it. cjs -- Curt Sampson 917 532 4208 http://www.netbsd.org Human speech is like a cracked tin kettle, on which we hammer out tunes to make bears dance when we long to move the stars. --Gustave Flaubert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 9:57:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from entropy.tmok.com (entropy.tmok.com [204.17.163.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB15537B85E for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wonko@entropy.tmok.com) Received: (from wonko@localhost) by entropy.tmok.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01943; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Hechinger Message-Id: <200006061704.NAA01943@entropy.tmok.com> Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Curt Sampson at "Jun 6, 2000 12:26:30 pm" To: cjs@cynic.net (Curt Sampson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Cc: bsdx@looksharp.net, freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com X-Useless-Header: why? because i can. X-Organization: The Ministry of Knowledge X-Dreams: an OpenWin that is based on current MIT X11 releases X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Curt Sampson drunkenly mumbled... > > > interesting. so > > theroretically serial mice should work regardless of the OS. the wheel > > on the other hand.... > > Even the wheel should work fine. So long as your driver supports it. which is what i was getting at (although poorly) so NetBSD shouldn't be a problem i'm assuming, but what about Solaris? does anyone know if OpenWin or CDE supports this? cheers, -brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jun 6 10:15:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from turtle.looksharp.net (cc360882-a.strhg1.mi.home.com [24.2.221.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB82E37B7F8 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdx@looksharp.net) Received: from localhost (bsdx@localhost) by turtle.looksharp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA71676; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:16:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bsdx@looksharp.net) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam To: wonko@entropy.tmok.com Cc: Curt Sampson , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Sun mice (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200006061704.NAA01943@entropy.tmok.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Even the wheel should work fine. So long as your driver supports it. > >which is what i was getting at (although poorly) > >so NetBSD shouldn't be a problem i'm assuming, but what about Solaris? does >anyone know if OpenWin or CDE supports this? > >cheers, > >-brian I'm thinking maybe if the X server doesnt support it (or we cant figure out how :-) http://jacki.dhs.org/imwheel/ might be of use. There is a port for it under FreeBSD and it says it takes the scroll events and turns them into key presses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message