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From: "Kenneth P. Stox" <stox@imagescape.com>
To: Jeremiah Gowdy <data@irev.net>
Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org
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First of all, I have changed the CC: to -advocacy, this does NOT belong in
-hackers. My apologies to all for not doing so at the beginning.
On 07-Jan-01 Jeremiah Gowdy wrote:
> What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ?
> Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a
> break.
I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate
about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so,
living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the
IRS.
> If I may repeat what you just said again:
>
>> If I must perform other actions as a result of my modifications, it is not
>> "free." I am being compelled to perform. This is not "free."
> a.. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice,
> this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
>
> b.. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
> notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
> documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
>
> Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they are
> compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" by
> your foolish definitions.
Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. From
the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are incapable
of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard Stallman and
Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by MSN,
$400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't help it
if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue.
>
> X11
>
> and this permission notice appear in all copies of
> the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this
> permission notice appear in supporting documentation
>
> X11 has the same restrictions. Although including the licence in future
> copies is no big thing, it's still a restriction, and by your own words: "If
> I must perform other actions as a result of my modifications, it is not
> 'free'".
>
> Now lets hear you rephrase your words to try to become less ambigous about
> the definition of "free" and how it interacts with the restrictions of the
> BSD and/or X11 licences. Maybe you can tell us how they are "more free".
> That's always fun, to listen to people rant about levels of "freeness".
Arguably, these clauses have become anachronisms, since they were created prior
to the United States joining the Bern Convention. They are restrictions, but
they preserve the freedoms of the authors and prevent others from siezing
rights to the code. These clauses do not limit the user's freedom in using a
distributing the code/binaries, they just insure that the originating authors
do not lose freedom at the same time. Prior to joing the Bern convention, if
this clauses were not asserted, someone could make minor changes to the code
and claim it as their own. Back to definitions again:
1. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under
restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's
own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's
own course of action; not dependent; at liberty.
"Free" does not allow you to impose your restraint, control, or compulsion on
others. This is a delicate balancing act that is the key thesis of what is
really "free." It is this balancing act that most forget in debates over the
meaning of "free," without this balance you have anarchy. Without this balance
I would be free to kill, steal, and rape. Obviously, in a "free" society, I am
not "free" to commit these acts.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 7 15:39:41 2001
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From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" <data@irev.net>
To: "Kenneth P. Stox" <stox@imagescape.com>
Cc: <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org>
References: <XFMail.010107145424.stox@imagescape.com>
Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:41:37 -0800
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> > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they
are
> > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software"
by
> > your foolish definitions.
>
> Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary.
From
> the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are
incapable
> of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard
Stallman and
> Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by
MSN,
> $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't
help it
> if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue.
Failing to respond to the fact that your definition of "free software" does
not apply to BSD licenced software, I must assume you are conceeding that
point, and therefore acknowledging the fact that "free software" is far too
ambiguous to use in a comparison of software available in Windows or
FreeBSD. Do you even know what this is about ? This is about someone
stating that "there is not as much free software for Windows as there is for
FreeBSD or Linux." Even if WE all understood and agreed to this definition
as a community, which I'm not really prepared to do so but for the sake of
argument, this is still a TERRIBLY ambiguous statement to be passing out to
people who are not part of the FreeBSD/Linux/GNU community. From a Windows
user point of view, there is PLENTY of free software available for Windows,
so your statement is going to come across to that person as foolish or
deceiving. Since the idea of this paper IS advocacy, being deceptive or
making people think you are lying, even if from your point of view you're
not, is not a proper way to approach people. Don't you think it would be
better to say something along the lines of what you've been saying about the
"freeness" of BSD and/or GPL software over freeware and shareware ?
Wouldn't that be less ambiguous and more constructive ? If we get back to
the subject at hand, rather than simply a stupid debate about the definition
of terms, I think we can come to an agreement.
As for the spelling, I ran a spell checker this time so you wouldn't have to
degrade yourself to making personal attacks based on spelling mistakes.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 7 17:25:18 2001
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Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:24:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Kenneth P. Stox" <stox@imagescape.com>
To: Jeremiah Gowdy <data@irev.net>
Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org
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On 07-Jan-01 Jeremiah Gowdy wrote:
>> > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they
> are
>> > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software"
> by
>> > your foolish definitions.
>>
>> Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary.
> From
>> the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are
^^^^^^^^^^^
Boy is my face red. s/mispellings/misspellings/. Talk about the kettle calling
the pot black. Oh, the shame! I'll stand in the corner with the pointy hat on
now. :-(
> incapable
>> of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard
> Stallman and
>> Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by
> MSN,
>> $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't
> help it
>> if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue.
>
> Failing to respond to the fact that your definition of "free software" does
Apparently, you didn't bother the read the entire message, I will quote the
response yet again:
<quote from my previous response>
Arguably, these clauses have become anachronisms, since they were created prior
to the United States joining the Bern Convention. They are restrictions, but
they preserve the freedoms of the authors and prevent others from seizing
rights to the code. These clauses do not limit the user's freedom in using a
distributing the code/binaries, they just insure that the originating authors
do not lose freedom at the same time. Prior to joining the Bern convention, if
this clauses were not asserted, someone could make minor changes to the code
and claim it as their own. Back to definitions again:
1. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under
restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's
own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's
own course of action; not dependent; at liberty.
"Free" does not allow you to impose your restraint, control, or compulsion on
others. This is a delicate balancing act that is the key thesis of what is
really "free." It is this balancing act that most forget in debates over the
meaning of "free," without this balance you have anarchy. Without this balance
I would be free to kill, steal, and rape. Obviously, in a "free" society, I am
not "free" to commit these acts.
</quote from previous response>
> not apply to BSD licenced software, I must assume you are conceeding that
> point, and therefore acknowledging the fact that "free software" is far too
> ambiguous to use in a comparison of software available in Windows or
> FreeBSD. Do you even know what this is about ? This is about someone
> stating that "there is not as much free software for Windows as there is for
> FreeBSD or Linux." Even if WE all understood and agreed to this definition
> as a community, which I'm not really prepared to do so but for the sake of
> argument, this is still a TERRIBLY ambiguous statement to be passing out to
> people who are not part of the FreeBSD/Linux/GNU community. From a Windows
> user point of view, there is PLENTY of free software available for Windows,
> so your statement is going to come across to that person as foolish or
> deceiving. Since the idea of this paper IS advocacy, being deceptive or
> making people think you are lying, even if from your point of view you're
> not, is not a proper way to approach people. Don't you think it would be
> better to say something along the lines of what you've been saying about the
> "freeness" of BSD and/or GPL software over freeware and shareware ?
> Wouldn't that be less ambiguous and more constructive ? If we get back to
> the subject at hand, rather than simply a stupid debate about the definition
> of terms, I think we can come to an agreement.
Now we're getting somewhere. A clear set of statements without insults. I hope
we can now proceed on to some positive results. As I stated previously, "free"
software, by part of your definition ( binary programs that may be loaded at no
apparent cost ), is rarely without cost. An exchange of currency may not be
involved, but exchange of something of value frequently is. It is this very
point that I think we should focus on educating the community. I suspect that
this will be a growing issue, in the awareness of the public, in the not
too distant future. The public thought that Real Networks Jukebox was "free." We
later found it was sending information back to Real Networks. Internet
Explorer is "free," until all competition is vanquished, then I suspect that
will change real quick. In the Windows community, many programs have started
"free" only to later taken commercial. These were not "free," they were a form
of lose leader to build market share. I won't even go into the issues of
malicious and/or virus infected binaries. How much has that cost the community?
Yes, there is "free" software available for the Windows platform, but I would
conject that there is far less than you assume.
So, what this all really boils down to is an issue of public education. The
issue is about the definition of terms and to educate the public what they
really mean. In most cases, the public is being deceived by the use of the
word "free," and we all need to do something about it.
> As for the spelling, I ran a spell checker this time so you wouldn't have to
> degrade yourself to making personal attacks based on spelling mistakes.
Well, thank you, but if I was afraid of making an idiot of myself, I would
never post to these mailing lists. ;->
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 8 12:21:52 2001
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To: "Kenneth P. Stox" <stox@imagescape.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of
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"Kenneth P. Stox" wrote:
> > What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ?
> > Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a
> > break.
>
> I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate
> about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so,
> living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the
> IRS.
Let's see, "free <object>" has always meants "without cost. Examples
include "free doughnuts", "free gravel", and the ubiquitous "free beer".
Software is not really an object, but it is ludicrous to think that
software could be oppressed. Only people can be oppressed. Likewise,
saying that Free Software is software with the political/natural/moral
right to vote, assemble, speak, worship, own firearms, not having to
quarter soldiers, etc, is beyond ludicrous, it's asinine.
When people hear the words "free software", if they haven't read
Stallman's little red book, they will naturally assume it means "free of
cost". And they would be correct, if incomplete.
> > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they are
> > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" by
> > your foolish definitions.
>
> Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. From
> the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are incapable
> of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard Stallman and
> Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by MSN,
> $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't help it
> if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue.
As for myself, I can only go off of the dictionary definitions. My
dictionary has over a dozen definitions of "free".They range from "free
electron" to "free end of a rope". None of these definitions fit the MSN
term whatsoever. A couple do fit the ESR/RMS definitions, but "free as
in 'free speech'" is not one of them. If I restrict someone's right to
free speech I will go to jail. But not even the most ardent of Free
Software supporters advocates arresting the authors of proprietary
software.
When one looks at the "natural" or "unalienable" rights commonly viewed
as the innate rights of human beings, they all have one thing in common.
They all reside in the personal domain of a single human being. A clear
example is freedom of the press. The press (being a publisher) has the
right to issue a publication. But the publishers does not have the right
to compel people to read his works, nor do people have the right to
compel publishers to publish. Those acts leave the domain of the
personal, and are no longer rights.
To place "free software" in the same category as "free speech" does not
work. The right to publish your own original software under a Free
license is certainly in accord with freedom of the press, but a natural
right to modify and redistribute someone else's software leaves the
bounds of the personal. You can only get that privilege by compelling
another person to act. So Free Software is not a right, though it may be
an attribute.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:31:32 2001
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From: "Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts
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Subject: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement:
"There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source."
That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be
open source?
thanks.
--
Dan Langille
The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/
FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/
NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:45:54 2001
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:45:53 +0100 (CET)
From: Lukas Ertl <l.ertl@univie.ac.at>
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To: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
Cc: <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote:
> I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement:
>
> "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source."
The person who said that should give some examples. To me this seems just
another piece of FUD. Maybe he thinks about kind of embedded devices, but
then the company still has to make the sources available since they are
under GPL.
> That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be
> open source?
If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source.
lg,
le
--=20
Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at
WWW-Redaktion Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073
Zentraler Informatikdienst (ZID) Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140
der Universit=E4t Wien
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:53:42 2001
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:53:15 +0100 (CET)
From: Konrad Heuer <kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de>
To: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
Cc: <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
In-Reply-To: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org>
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote:
> I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement:
>
> "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source."
>
> That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be
> open source?
The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other
hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel. Thus one
can build a Linux distribution containing the kernel and a lot of
additional open source tools (like the GNU tools) which will be open
source completely. But I can imagine a Linux distribution where anything
except the kernel isn't open source. For example, as far as I know, you
won't be able the get source code of yast or yast2, the SuSE Linux
administration tool. And what's about Corel Linux? Will they put all their
special work to open source? I don' believe so. What I know is that Debian
Linux is the only one which is open source completely.
Regards
Konrad Heuer Personal Bookmarks:
Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche
Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen http://www.freebsd.org
Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen http://www.daemonnews.o=
rg
Deutschland (Germany)
kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 10: 8:11 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:04:53 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
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To: Konrad Heuer <kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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Konrad Heuer wrote:
> For example, as far as I know, you
> won't be able the get source code of yast or yast2, the SuSE Linux
> administration tool. And what's about Corel Linux? Will they put all their
> special work to open source? I don' believe so. What I know is that Debian
> Linux is the only one which is open source completely.
Not really. If you don't count third-party end user applications as part
of the operating system (I sure don't), then most Linux distros are 100%
open source. I'm most familiar with Slackware, and it certainly is. The
only thing in it that isn't open source is Netscape and xv (and
OpenMotif which is in contribs). Funny thing, Debian also has those.
They may separate them out into a "non-free" directory, but they still
get shipped on the CDs.
David
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 11:22:55 2001
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From: "Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:22:34 +1300
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Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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On 9 Jan 2001, at 12:53, Konrad Heuer wrote:
> The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other
> hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel.
[snip]
Thanks. And the same person tells me this:
###
One day FreeBSD may want to incorporate some cool Linux stuff into its
kernel that would require a *lot* of work to write without infringing upon
GPLed code. That's when the really tough decisions will arise.
###
That's just FUD to me.
--
Dan Langille
The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/
FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/
NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 14:41: 8 2001
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:40:36 -0500
To: dan@langille.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Garance A Drosihn <drosih@rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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At 12:31 AM +1300 1/10/01, Dan Langille wrote:
>I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement:
>
>"There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source."
>
>That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that
>it be open source?
There are linux distros which include individual applications,
where some of those applications will not be open-source. I
do not see that as being overly important. Anything that has
a GNU-license (such as the linux kernel itself) will have to
be open-source.
Not quite sure why we'd debate this on freebsd-advocacy, though.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 16:10:41 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:16:34 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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To: Lukas Ertl <l.ertl@univie.ac.at>
Cc: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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Lukas Ertl wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote:
>
> > I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement:
> >
> > "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source."
>
> The person who said that should give some examples. To me this seems just
> another piece of FUD. Maybe he thinks about kind of embedded devices, but
> then the company still has to make the sources available since they are
> under GPL.
Except except except. Call Rio and ask them for the source to their
Kerbango netradio application. Call any embedded Linux device vendor and
ask them for the code to their device, even the parts that they're supposed
to provide under GPL. See what a warm and loving reception you get.
> > That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be
> > open source?
>
> If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source.
Let's correct that:
If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source.
People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away
with it.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 16:47: 2 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:43:49 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
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To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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Wes Peters wrote:
> > If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source.
>
> Let's correct that:
>
> If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source.
>
> People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away
> with it.
The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls.
I also recall that Linus allows closed source loadable modules. In
practice it is very similar to the LGPL. A lot of the closed source
Linux stuff operates on this exception instead of outright violating the
license. I don't know how Rio does things, but it shouldn't be too hard
to use Linux in an embedded environment without having to actually
modify the kernel.
David
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 17:37: 9 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:43:23 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
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To: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: "Kenneth P. Stox" <stox@imagescape.com>,
freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of
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David Johnson wrote:
>
> "Kenneth P. Stox" wrote:
>
> > > What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ?
> > > Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a
> > > break.
> >
> > I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate
> > about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so,
> > living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the
> > IRS.
>
> Let's see, "free <object>" has always meants "without cost.
Always? Let <object> :== "man".
This dicussion has gone beyond ludicrous, and it's time to end it on
-advocacy too. All of you just SHUT THE HELL UP!
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 18:59: 3 2001
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To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: BABUG Jan 11th Meeting
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:04:55 -0800 (PST)
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-- South Bay BAFUG/BABUG --
(Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group)
Auguest 2000 Meeting
The South Bay, Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group (BAFUG/BABUG) will be holding
its monthly meeting at the Whistle coporation office in Foster City
on Thursday, Jan 11th. (sorry for the late announcement)
Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM
The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM.
After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM
Agenda :
==> Our Topic - DNS and Bind - An overview an intro to Bind9
A walk through on DNS setup, configuration, and maintanance with an introduction to Bind9.
Presented by the BABUG staff
==> Pizza and Soda is provided compliments of Whistle Comunications!
Location :
This months meeting will be held at Whistle Communications. Whistle is
located at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City. There is plenty parking in
their lot. Please see the REAR door marked with the BAFUG sign.
Times :
Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM
The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM.
After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM
Basic Directions :
By CalTrain :
Exit at the downtown San Mateo station, and walk several miles east
on Third Avenue to the Marsh Drive intersection. Alternatively,
exit at the Bay Meadows station and take the SanTrans Route 251
Hillsdale - Foster City bus to the Bridgepoint Shopping Center stop
and walk 1/4 mile north on Mariner's Island Blvd. to Third Avenue,
turning right one block to Marsh Drive.
By SamTrans :
The Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus line's Bridgepoint
Shopping Center terminus is a few blocks from Whistle
Communications.
By Car :
From the South Bay and Peninsula :
Take 101 North towards San Francisco, From US-101 northbound,
take CA-92 eastbound a mile to the Foster City Blvd., turning
left (east) at the end of the ramp onto Metro Center Blvd. Go
about a block and turn left (north-east) onto Foster City
Blvd. Go about five blocks to the street's end, turning left
(north) onto Third Avenue. Go about a block to turn left (west)
at the first traffic light, onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn
left into the Whistle parking lot.
From the East Bay :
From CA-92/Hayward, cross the San Mateo Bridge and take the
first exit Foster City Blvd., curving right at the end of the
ramp to a left (north-east) turn onto Foster City Blvd. Then
process as described above for US-101 northbound.
From the North Bay and San Francisco :
From US-101 southbound, exit eastbound onto Third Avenue
proceeding several miles, past the Mariner's Island
Blvd. intersection, to turn right (west) onto Marsh
Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking
lot.
WWW info :
More info can be found at the following URLs
Whistle Communications - http://www.whistle.com
BAFUG - http://www.bafug.org
Contacts :
Nicole Harrington <nicole@bafug.org>
Josef Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 22:12:13 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:18:20 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
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To: dan@langille.org
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
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Dan Langille wrote:
>
> On 9 Jan 2001, at 12:53, Konrad Heuer wrote:
>
> > The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other
> > hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel.
>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks. And the same person tells me this:
>
> ###
> One day FreeBSD may want to incorporate some cool Linux stuff into its
> kernel that would require a *lot* of work to write without infringing upon
> GPLed code. That's when the really tough decisions will arise.
> ###
>
> That's just FUD to me.
Of course none of the code in the FreeBSD kernel we have now required any
hard work, it was all just a walk in the park compared to working on that
really difficult GPLed code.
I guess there are some advantages to our more controlled development environ-
ment, eh?
</SARCASM>
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 22:44:35 2001
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:50:48 -0700
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To: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.31.0101091240230.48782-100000@pcle2.cc.univie.ac.at> <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com>
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David Johnson wrote:
>
> Wes Peters wrote:
> >
> > If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source.
> >
> > People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away
> > with it.
>
> The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls.
Where? In what license?
> I also recall that Linus allows closed source loadable modules. In
Linus does, but does the license? Linus opinions are not the contract
which allows you to distribute the code; the GPL *is*.
> practice it is very similar to the LGPL. A lot of the closed source
> Linux stuff operates on this exception instead of outright violating the
> license. I don't know how Rio does things, but it shouldn't be too hard
> to use Linux in an embedded environment without having to actually
> modify the kernel.
Actually, the kernel usually has to be heavily modified to support the
limited run-time environment, but this work is usually released to anyone
who wants it, since it's useless without the specific hardware.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 1: 4:26 2001
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(envelope-from jkoshy)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:04:06 -0800 (PST)
From: <jkoshy@FreeBSD.org>
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To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org
Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.org, jkoshy@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org,
itojun@iijlab.net
Subject: Slides for FreeBSD/IPv6 presentation available
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Folks,
I have put up some slides that I presented at the recent "Global IPv6
Summit" in Bangalore, under
http://people.freebsd.org/~jkoshy/articles/ipv6-presentation/
The topic of my talk was `IPv6 in FreeBSD'. The talk started off with an
introduction to FreeBSD, went into the details of IPv6 support in FreeBSD,
and ended with a demonstration of IPv6 in action.
The web page referenced above also has some notes about what went well
during the talk. This may be of use to people interested in advocacy.
The presentation is being made available in LaTeX and PDF forms.
Thanks to <itojun@iijlab.net> for pointing me to KAME related information.
Regards,
Koshy
<jkoshy@freebsd.org>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 8:55:39 2001
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:00:50 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a
handbook section on "how to start a user group?"
> Franchi Santiago wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina.
> What can I do?
> thanks
> Santiago
>
> ----------
> De: root@FreeBSD.ORG[SMTP:root@FreeBSD.ORG]
> Responder a: Wes Peters
> Enviado el: Miércoles 10 de Enero de 2001 10:46
> Para: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG
> Asunto: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group
>
> I am happy to announce the formation of a BSD Users Group in northern Utah.
> We will meet in conjunction with the Salt Lake Linux Users Group, SLLUG,
> to converse on topics of mutual interest.
>
> Our next meeting will be Wednesday, January 17, 2001, at the Engineering
> Mines Classroom Building on the University of Utah campus. The topic for
> the general meeting is Virtual Private Networks, particularly approprite
> for BSD systems.
>
> This months announcements will cover:
>
> o DaemonNews print edition announcement
> o OpenBSD 2.8 release
> o FreeBSD 4.2 release
> o BSD/OS 4.2 release
> o NetBSD 1.5 release
> o MacOS X Public Beta release
> o FreeBSD ports system passes 4,500 mark
>
> Kevin Rose from BSDi will be on hand giving away FreeBSD 4.1 CD-ROM sets.
> Joe Warner may have some DaemonNews print copies on hand as well. We will
> try to have a few great BSD giveaways at every meeting.
>
> More information can be found on the SLLUG-BUG web page:
>
> http://www.bsdconspiracy.net/sllug-bug/
>
> Follow the link to the next meeting page for directions and a map to EMCB
> at the UofU.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:32:51 2001
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:32:27 +0100 (CET)
From: Lukas Ertl <l.ertl@univie.ac.at>
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To: <advocacy@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group]
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Wes Peters wrote:
> What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a
> handbook section on "how to start a user group?"
>
> > Franchi Santiago wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina.
> > What can I do?
> > thanks
> > Santiago
Well, it would be very helpful for Mr. Santiago if he knew at least one
other person interested in BSD and forming a BUG, so they can get together
and pretend they are "a group" :-)
Seriously, he should set up a webpage containing information on the group
and BSD in general, offering help to new users, maybe including a
"forum"...
Another good thing would be setting up a mailing list, and even an IRC
channel can be useful.
Of course, he should think about a meeting of the group, but probably
there have to be members first.
lg,
le
--=20
Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at
WWW-Redaktion Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073
Zentraler Informatikdienst (ZID) Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140
der Universit=E4t Wien
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:38:38 2001
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:44:22 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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Wes Peters wrote:
>
> What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a
> handbook section on "how to start a user group?"
Uh, oops, I lost his email address off the forwarded message. It is:
Franchi Santiago <SFRANCHI@pecom.com.ar>
> > Franchi Santiago wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina.
> > What can I do?
> > thanks
> > Santiago
> >
> > ----------
> > De: root@FreeBSD.ORG[SMTP:root@FreeBSD.ORG]
> > Responder a: Wes Peters
> > Enviado el: Miércoles 10 de Enero de 2001 10:46
> > Para: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG
> > Asunto: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group
> >
> > I am happy to announce the formation of a BSD Users Group in northern Utah.
> > We will meet in conjunction with the Salt Lake Linux Users Group, SLLUG,
> > to converse on topics of mutual interest.
> >
> > Our next meeting will be Wednesday, January 17, 2001, at the Engineering
> > Mines Classroom Building on the University of Utah campus. The topic for
> > the general meeting is Virtual Private Networks, particularly approprite
> > for BSD systems.
> >
> > This months announcements will cover:
> >
> > o DaemonNews print edition announcement
> > o OpenBSD 2.8 release
> > o FreeBSD 4.2 release
> > o BSD/OS 4.2 release
> > o NetBSD 1.5 release
> > o MacOS X Public Beta release
> > o FreeBSD ports system passes 4,500 mark
> >
> > Kevin Rose from BSDi will be on hand giving away FreeBSD 4.1 CD-ROM sets.
> > Joe Warner may have some DaemonNews print copies on hand as well. We will
> > try to have a few great BSD giveaways at every meeting.
> >
> > More information can be found on the SLLUG-BUG web page:
> >
> > http://www.bsdconspiracy.net/sllug-bug/
> >
> > Follow the link to the next meeting page for directions and a map to EMCB
> > at the UofU.
>
> --
> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
>
> Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
> wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:58:14 2001
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From: "Robin S. Socha" <rsocha@kens.com>
To: SFRANCHI@pecom.com.ar
Cc: <advocacy@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group]
Message-ID: <20010110125757.D56518@kens.com>
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* Lukas Ertl <l.ertl@univie.ac.at> [010110 12:32]:
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Wes Peters wrote:
>
> > What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a
> > handbook section on "how to start a user group?"
> >
> > > Franchi Santiago wrote:
> > > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina.
> > > What can I do?
I would suggest taking a look at the Linux User Group HOWTO. The same
principles apply. http://lhd.zdnet.com/LDP/HOWTO/User-Group-HOWTO.html
e.g.
> Another good thing would be setting up a mailing list, and even an IRC
> channel can be useful.
Mailing lists are extremely useful. IRC sucks extremely much (cf. also
http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/preface.html#IRC).
> Of course, he should think about a meeting of the group, but probably
> there have to be members first.
Ummm... Yup. BTW: localhost.localdomain?
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 10:21:41 2001
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:18:25 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
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To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.31.0101091240230.48782-100000@pcle2.cc.univie.ac.at> <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> <3A5C0648.603AB543@softweyr.com>
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Wes Peters wrote:
> > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls.
>
> Where? In what license?
It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file:
NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
Linus Torvalds
David
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 23:35:35 2001
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To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: New-Entrance + Heads Up -BABUG Jan 11th Meeting
Message-Id: <20010111074126.8B6B743D16@home.babug.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:41:26 -0800 (PST)
From: nicole@babug.org (Nicole)
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-- South Bay BAFUG/BABUG --
(Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group)
January 2000 Meeting
(really)
Heads Up Request +
Please see new entrance Location at bottom of email!!
The South Bay, Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group (BAFUG/BABUG) will be holding
its monthly meeting at the Whistle coporation office in Foster City
on Thursday, Jan 11th. (sorry for the late announcement)
Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM
The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM.
After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM
Agenda :
==> Our Topic - DNS and Bind - An overview of Bind and an intro to Bind9
A walk through on DNS setup, configuration, and maintanance with an introduction to Bind9.
Presented by the BABUG staff
==> Pizza and Soda is provided compliments of Whistle Comunications!
Location :
This months meeting will be held at Whistle Communications. Whistle is
located at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City. There is plenty parking in
their lot. Please see the REAR door marked with the BAFUG sign.
Times :
Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM
The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM.
After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM
Basic Directions :
By CalTrain :
Exit at the downtown San Mateo station, and walk several miles east
on Third Avenue to the Marsh Drive intersection. Alternatively,
exit at the Bay Meadows station and take the SanTrans Route 251
Hillsdale - Foster City bus to the Bridgepoint Shopping Center stop
and walk 1/4 mile north on Mariner's Island Blvd. to Third Avenue,
turning right one block to Marsh Drive.
By SamTrans :
The Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus line's Bridgepoint
Shopping Center terminus is a few blocks from Whistle
Communications.
By Car :
From the South Bay and Peninsula :
Take 101 North towards San Francisco, From US-101 northbound,
take CA-92 eastbound a mile to the Foster City Blvd., turning
left (east) at the end of the ramp onto Metro Center Blvd. Go
about a block and turn left (north-east) onto Foster City
Blvd. Go about five blocks to the street's end, turning left
(north) onto Third Avenue. Go about a block to turn left (west)
at the first traffic light, onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn
left into the Whistle parking lot.
From the East Bay :
From CA-92/Hayward, cross the San Mateo Bridge and take the
first exit Foster City Blvd., curving right at the end of the
ramp to a left (north-east) turn onto Foster City Blvd. Then
process as described above for US-101 northbound.
From the North Bay and San Francisco :
From US-101 southbound, exit eastbound onto Third Avenue
proceeding several miles, past the Mariner's Island
Blvd. intersection, to turn right (west) onto Marsh
Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking
lot.
WWW info :
More info can be found at the following URLs
Whistle Communications - http://www.whistle.com
BAFUG - http://www.bafug.org
Contacts :
Nicole Harrington <nicole@bafug.org>
Josef Grosch <jgrosch@bafug.org>
############## How To Get In ###########################
Please note that when you come to the meeting, we will be using the same
conference room as we did in November (for those who were present then),
but we will be using a different door than one we have ever used for the
meeting.
The proper door is the one labelled "Side Door" in the below diagram.
(The tradition of ASCII art for local meetings is alive and well!)
To take optimal advantage of the door, please use the parking lot nearer
Vintage Park Drive (vs. the one nearer Third Avenue):
Front Door
|
|
v
========---+---========
/ \
_ / \
|\ / \
\_ to 3rd Ave. / \
/ \ to Vintage
/ \ Park Dr. --->
/ /==--+--==\ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
\ / to Marsh Dr. \ /
"Engineering" \ / / \ /<---- Side Door
Door -----> \/ / \/
L
There are driveways (on Marsh Dr.) on either side of the building;
please use the one that corresponds to the right-hand side of the
diagram.
If in doubt, please feel free to call my cell number (below).
David Wolfskill - BABUG Paitron Saint
Cell: 650/759-0823
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 11 7: 1:58 2001
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <200101111501.IAA15035@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
To: djohnson@acuson.com (David Johnson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:01:26 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <3A5CA771.27DCFB7D@acuson.com> from "David Johnson" at Jan 10, 2001 10:18:25 AM
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> > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls.
> >
> > Where? In what license?
>
> It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file:
>
> NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
> services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
> of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
> Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
> Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
> kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
>
> Linus Torvalds
Cool. You have the right to modify and distribute the kernel code,
granted by the GPL, but there is no license in place granting you
the right to utililize the kernel services, since the GPL doesn't
entitle you to normal use of the kernel, according to this paragraph...
}B^)
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 9:13:24 2001
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:58 -0600
From: Bob Martin <bob@inu.net>
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This says a lot about BSD
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html
--
Bob Martin, CTO
InterNet Unlimited
http://www.inu.net
mailto:bob@inu.net
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 17:33:26 2001
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From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Message-ID: <b0.eedb34b.27910a52@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:33:06 EST
Subject: new documentaion
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
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Hello,
I have been using freebsd for awhile now, and I have noticed that
much of it's documentaion is quite dated, I believe documentaion is a key
part of support, especially for a newbie. Also there are many topics not
covered, I think this could all be changed. There are many of us on this list
right now who have enough knowledge to write good, up to date tutorials.
Anything that you think you know well about freebsd you could write a
tutorial about. Before long I think we would have a nice, cuurect, collection
of tutorials.
I am going to be writing many tutorials in the next few weeks if
anyone wants to help me out, or write some too, that would be awesome.
Thanks alot guys, later
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 18:31:33 2001
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From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Message-ID: <aa.fa4f154.279117da@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:30:50 EST
Subject: Re: new documentation
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
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Hello,
Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are
interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write
some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time.
To let me know you would like to participate just send me an E-mail
saying so and include some info. For example the first person to say he would
help out was Sebastian, and he just told me some basic info his job E-mail,
name etc. All that info is optional, the only thing i would really like is
the E-mail address you would like to discuss things with. A first name would
also be great.
Thanks alot,
Arthur
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 20: 3:59 2001
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Message-ID: <3A5FD478.5D197BF5@softweyr.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:07:20 -0700
From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Organization: Softweyr LLC
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To: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.31.0101091240230.48782-100000@pcle2.cc.univie.ac.at> <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> <3A5C0648.603AB543@softweyr.com> <3A5CA771.27DCFB7D@acuson.com>
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David Johnson wrote:
>
> Wes Peters wrote:
>
> > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls.
> >
> > Where? In what license?
>
> It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file:
>
> NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
> services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
> of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
> Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
> Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
> kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
>
> Linus Torvalds
Thank you for the clarification.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 1:32:22 2001
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:36:21 -0700
From: "Anthony C. Chavez" <anthony@xmission.com>
To: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: new documentation
Message-ID: <20010113023620.B72615@xmission.com>
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On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 09:30:50PM -0500, GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com wrote:
> Hello,
> Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are
> interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write
> some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time.
[snip]
Might I suggest that the Linuxism "HOWTO" be avoided? Other naming
conventions are much more appealing (e.g., tutorials, FAQs,
documentation, etc.). A technicality maybe, but one that makes BSD a
more respectable OS, IMHO.
(BTW, I'd love to help, but my plate is quite full ATM.)
--
anthony@xmission.com http://anthonychavez.cjb.net/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
``The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.''
-- Howard Phillips Lovecraft
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 2: 0:37 2001
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:04:37 -0700
From: "Anthony C. Chavez" <anthony@xmission.com>
To: Bob Martin <bob@inu.net>
Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Uptimes.
Message-ID: <20010113030437.E72615@xmission.com>
References: <3A5F3B1A.10BE2837@inu.net>
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On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 11:12:58AM -0600, Bob Martin <bob@inu.net> wrote:
> This says a lot about BSD
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html
*sniff* That's so beautiful I could just... *sniffle* ...you'll have to
excuse me, I...
--
anthony@xmission.com http://anthonychavez.cjb.net/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Klingon is for wimps. http://move.to/ardalambion/
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 3: 5:49 2001
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:05:24 +0200
From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>
To: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: new documentation
Message-ID: <20010113130524.A47937@mithrandr.moria.org>
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On Fri 2001-01-12 (21:30), GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com wrote:
> Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are
> interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write
> some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time.
> To let me know you would like to participate just send me an E-mail
> saying so and include some info. For example the first person to say he would
> help out was Sebastian, and he just told me some basic info his job E-mail,
> name etc. All that info is optional, the only thing i would really like is
> the E-mail address you would like to discuss things with. A first name would
> also be great.
We do have a FreeBSD Documentation Project that would be rather happy
for new content. You can reach them at doc@FreeBSD.org.
Neil
--
Neil Blakey-Milner
nbm@mithrandr.moria.org
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:45:19 2001
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From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:44:58 EST
Subject: Re: new documentation
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Hey,
Thanks for the feedback, when everything is done, we will be sure to
submit them to everyone we can. Daemon News is an awesome site & magazine,
and it will be way up at the top of the list i am sure.
Arthur
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:55:58 2001
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From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Message-ID: <a.76fde9f.2791c65c@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:55:24 EST
Subject: Re: new documentaion
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Hey,
I am sorry you feel that way, and I am sorry you had to read that post. I
just wanted to let everyone know what i was doing, and see if anyone wanted
to help out, if you do not think i am credible, then you can ignore my posts
in the future. Also what is this about:
> In our last debate on January 12, 2001 08:33 pm, GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
wrote:
I do not know where you got the idea but I was never in a debate with
you. All I am doing is trying to create some up to date documentation on
freebsd, and see if anyone else was interested in helping out. This is the
first post I have gotten from you, and i am in know way in a debate with you,
nor do i wish to be in one.
> Do you have any idea who the people are on the list(s) your posting to?
I have no clue what you are trying to imply, but I figured anyone who did
not like my posts would simply delete them and not reply, if it bothers you
that much, I am sorry.
Arthur
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:58:43 2001
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From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com
Message-ID: <31.f0f5ab6.2791c70c@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:58:20 EST
Subject: Re: new documentation
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Hello,
I am well aware of the Linux HOWTO's and I want to make sure you know, we
are in no way trying to create Linux like documentation.
Arthur
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