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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 7:42:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D2A37B424; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmukler@mail.ru) Received: from tp600e (user-2ivebbk.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.45.116]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA06050; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a401c0cc03$b8aeb740$7b02a8c0@tp600e> From: "Igor Shmukler" To: Cc: , Subject: FFS Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:42:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C0CBE2.25681740" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C0CBE2.25681740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I am just emailing everyone who might to have relevant info. I am looking for info on FFS. I have seen McKusick paper and = paper.ascii.gz from 05.fastfs, but they are too high level. Is there = more place for detailed data. Such as superblock, inode, directory etc. Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C0CBE2.25681740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry, I am just emailing = everyone who might to have=20 relevant info.

I am looking for info on FFS. I have seen McKusick = paper and=20 paper.ascii.gz from 05.fastfs, but they are too high level. Is there = more place=20 for detailed data. Such as superblock, inode, directory = etc.

Thanks.

------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C0CBE2.25681740-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 8: 5:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C4D37B424 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmukler@mail.ru) Received: from tp600e (user-2ivebbk.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.45.116]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16292 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d101c0cc06$ef3b87e0$7b02a8c0@tp600e> From: "Igor Shmukler" To: Subject: subscribe Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:06:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C0CBE5.66A03AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C0CBE5.66A03AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where do I subscribe to this mail list? Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C0CBE5.66A03AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Where do I subscribe to this mail list?

Thanks.

------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C0CBE5.66A03AA0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 11: 7:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E995637B423 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmukler@mail.ru) Received: from tp600e (user-2ivebbk.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.45.116]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA01295 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00b701c0cc20$45e61420$7b02a8c0@tp600e> From: "Igor Shmukler" To: Subject: fs structure Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:06:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0CBFE.9025C520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0CBFE.9025C520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a question about ffs structure. Superblock is located at 0x2000 = physical on disk. Where in superblock is pointer to first inode (inode = #2)? Is it fs_iblkno? Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0CBFE.9025C520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a question about = ffs=20 structure. Superblock is located at 0x2000 physical on disk. Where in = superblock=20 is pointer to first inode (inode #2)?

Is it fs_iblkno?

Thanks.

------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0CBFE.9025C520-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 11:22:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0AD37B423 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from opal (cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.123.101]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3NIMqo14514; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:22:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang X-Sender: zzhang@opal To: Igor Shmukler Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fs structure In-Reply-To: <00b701c0cc20$45e61420$7b02a8c0@tp600e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As long as the root inode is at a WELL-KNOWN disk address, you can find it during mount time. It can be stored in a superblock field, which is in turn stored at a well-known disk address. But you do not have to. If you can locate the inode map, you can find the root inode. -Zhihui On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Igor Shmukler wrote: > I have a question about ffs structure. Superblock is located at 0x2000 physical on disk. Where in superblock is pointer to first inode (inode #2)? > Is it fs_iblkno? > Thanks. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 18:51:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B29A37B42C for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15660; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA5OaqKE; Mon Apr 23 18:51:43 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA14909; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:52:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200104240152.SAA14909@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fs structure To: shmukler@mail.ru (Igor Shmukler) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:52:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <00b701c0cc20$45e61420$7b02a8c0@tp600e> from "Igor Shmukler" at Apr 23, 2001 02:06:16 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have a question about ffs structure. Superblock is located at 0x2000 = > physical on disk. Where in superblock is pointer to first inode (inode = > #2)? > Is it fs_iblkno? > Thanks. See /sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c. Search for the first occurance of "mnt_vnodecovered", which occurs in the "mount()" system call code. Effectively, it looks up the inode by number. You may also want to search for "mnt_vnodecovered" in the file /sys/kern/vfs_lookup.c; in particular, look at mount point traversal in the ".." case. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 21:39:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from unixthugs.com (adsl-63-195-86-171.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.195.86.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F05337B424 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryno@unixthugs.com) Received: (qmail 47356 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Apr 2001 20:42:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 20:42:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:42:45 +0000 (GMT) From: _R_j_M_ To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: journeling fs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hello, i was just wondering if any journeling filesystems have been ported to freebsd or if there are any in future plans. ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 21:43:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCB837B423 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f3O4hkC21450; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:43:46 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: _R_j_M_ Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: journeling fs Message-ID: <20010423214346.C1790@fw.wintelcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from ryno@unixthugs.com on Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 08:42:45PM +0000 X-all-your-base: are belong to us. Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * _R_j_M_ [010423 21:39] wrote: > hello, > > i was just wondering if any journeling filesystems have been ported to > freebsd or if there are any in future plans. At the moment I haven't heard of any plans, however FreeBSD UFS in the developement version can be mounted without running fsck, and a fsck can be done in the background. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [alfred@freebsd.org] Represent yourself, show up at BABUG http://www.babug.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Apr 23 22:12:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49B537B424 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:12:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f3O5CQ812318; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:12:26 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:12:26 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: _R_j_M_ , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: journeling fs Message-ID: <20010423221226.A11928@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20010423214346.C1790@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010423214346.C1790@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 09:43:46PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 09:43:46PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * _R_j_M_ [010423 21:39] wrote: > > i was just wondering if any journeling filesystems have been ported to > > freebsd or if there are any in future plans.=20 >=20 > At the moment I haven't heard of any plans, however FreeBSD UFS in > the developement version can be mounted without running fsck, and > a fsck can be done in the background. I believe GFS in single system mode is just a journeling fs and a port is planned. -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE65Qs5XY6L6fI4GtQRAuFTAJ0XYZ9pBS27bYzzsMMAFFSJqMoiiQCg5uSi 0FyyeagGercoTTw41wKgXEw= =bdFy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Apr 24 7:17:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (durham0-128.dsl.gtei.net [4.3.0.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4916537B43E for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 22154 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Apr 2001 14:16:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:16:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Joseph Mallett To: _R_j_M_ Cc: Subject: Re: journeling fs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look up information on 'Elephant'. It's the filesystem that never forgets. /joseph -- New Gold Technology: www.newgold.net [Joseph Mallett | Security Specialist] xMach Operating System: www.xMach.org [jmallett on #xMach @ irc.openprojects.net | xMach Core Team] xMach Research Group: www.xmrg.com [Joseph Mallett | Head Software Research] "Squint your eyes and look closer; I'm not between you and your ambitions. I am a poster girl with no poster; I am thirty-two flavors and them some." - Ani Difranco, 32 Flavors On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, _R_j_M_ wrote: > hello, > > i was just wondering if any journeling filesystems have been ported to > freebsd or if there are any in future plans. > > ryan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Apr 24 10:40: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06A037B424 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3OHdtf18550; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:40:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: _R_j_M_ Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: journeling fs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There are at least two journalled file system implementations for FreeBSD, unfortunately neither is publically available at this point, and both are research prototypes for somewhat older versions of FreeBSD. Take a look at the paper by McKusick, et al, at the June 2000 USENIX Technical Conference comparing soft updates and various forms of journalling, for which all experimentation was done on FreeBSD. My understanding is that work is underway to make this code available to the broader community in the near future (the WAFS file system posted about recently was a component of that work, as I understand it). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, _R_j_M_ wrote: > hello, > > i was just wondering if any journeling filesystems have been ported to > freebsd or if there are any in future plans. > > ryan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 4: 9:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bilver.wjv.com (dhcp-1-254.n01.orldfl01.us.ra.verio.net [157.238.210.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4981037B423; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 04:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bill@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bill@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3PB9OF04602; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:09:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bill) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:09:23 -0400 From: Bill Vermillion To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: journeling fs Message-ID: <20010425070923.B4313@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References:

Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG on Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:39:55PM -0400 Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:39:55PM -0400, Robert Watson thus sprach: > There are at least two journalled file system implementations for FreeBSD, > unfortunately neither is publically available at this point, and both are > research prototypes for somewhat older versions of FreeBSD. Take a look > at the paper by McKusick, et al, at the June 2000 USENIX Technical Is this on line somewhere. If so is there a pointer? Thanks. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 4:41:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from rapidnet.com (rapidnet.com [205.164.216.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9B037B423; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 04:41:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barney@rapidnet.com) Received: from einzammer ([12.13.118.28]) by rapidnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA88384; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200104251139.FAA88384@rapidnet.com> X-Sender: barney@205.164.216.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:39:47 -0600 To: bv@wjv.com, Robert Watson From: "Troy M. Barnhart" Subject: Re: journeling fs Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010425070923.B4313@wjv.com> References:

Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've heard from three different sources that developers on IBM's AIX team are looking at FreeBSD to port over their JFS. (The newest AIX implementation was re-wrote on a Linux kernel.) barney At 05:09 AM 04/25/2001 , Bill Vermillion wrote: >On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:39:55PM -0400, Robert Watson thus sprach: > >> There are at least two journalled file system implementations for FreeBSD, >> unfortunately neither is publically available at this point, and both are >> research prototypes for somewhat older versions of FreeBSD. Take a look >> at the paper by McKusick, et al, at the June 2000 USENIX Technical > >Is this on line somewhere. If so is there a pointer? > >Thanks. > >Bill > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 4:54:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ns.caldera.de (ns.caldera.de [212.34.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17F6837B423; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 04:54:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hch@ns.caldera.de) Received: (from hch@localhost) by ns.caldera.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3PBriK08714; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:53:44 +0200 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:53:44 +0200 From: Christoph Hellwig To: "Troy M. Barnhart" Cc: bv@wjv.com, Robert Watson , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: journeling fs Message-ID: <20010425135344.A7732@caldera.de> References:

<20010425070923.B4313@wjv.com> <200104251139.FAA88384@rapidnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200104251139.FAA88384@rapidnet.com>; from barney@rapidnet.com on Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 05:39:47AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 05:39:47AM -0600, Troy M. Barnhart wrote: > I've heard from three different sources that developers on IBM's AIX > team are looking at FreeBSD to port over their JFS. > (The newest AIX implementation was re-wrote on a Linux kernel.) *LOL* AIX contains a lot SVR5 (UnixWare) Code - not Linux. They just have a port of the GNU libc and some other stuff commonly found in the Userlevel of Linux distributions. The AIX JFS isn't easily portable to any other UNIX - it's is deeply tied to the Memory Managment of AIX which is _very_ different from all other UNIX VM Architectures. (Do I have to say 256K segments?). Christoph -- Of course it doesn't work. We've performed a software upgrade. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 5: 9:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ns.caldera.de (ns.caldera.de [212.34.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1152837B424; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:09:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hch@ns.caldera.de) Received: (from hch@localhost) by ns.caldera.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3PC8di10223; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:08:39 +0200 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:08:39 +0200 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Christoph Hellwig Cc: "Troy M. Barnhart" , bv@wjv.com, Robert Watson , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: journeling fs Message-ID: <20010425140839.A9886@caldera.de> References:

<20010425070923.B4313@wjv.com> <200104251139.FAA88384 <200104251139.FAA88384@rapidnet.com> <20010425135344.A7732@caldera.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010425135344.A7732@caldera.de>; from hch@lst.de on Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:53:44PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:53:44PM +0200, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > The AIX JFS isn't easily portable to any other UNIX - it's is deeply tied > to the Memory Managment of AIX which is _very_ different from all other > UNIX VM Architectures. (Do I have to say 256K segments?). ^^^^^^^^^ 265MB even Not to mention the legal problems... Christoph -- Of course it doesn't work. We've performed a software upgrade. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 5:15:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx9.port.ru (mx9.port.ru [194.67.23.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3CD37B422; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:15:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kabaev@mail.ru) Received: from adsl-141-154-20-180.bostma.adsl.bellatlantic.net ([141.154.20.180] helo=kan.dnsalias.net) by mx9.port.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #18) id 14sOCG-0004NV-00; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:15:04 +0400 Received: (from kan@localhost) by kan.dnsalias.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f3PCF1g00986; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:15:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kan) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.7p2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200104251139.FAA88384@rapidnet.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:15:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Alexander Kabaev To: "Troy M. Barnhart" Subject: Re: journeling fs Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Robert Watson , bv@wjv.com Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org IBM is porting OS/2 JFS implementation to Linux, not the one from AIX. When I was last looking at the source, JFS for Linux was not even case sensitive :) I sure that was changed in recent months, but still JFS on Linux has nothing to do with its AIX namesake. On 25-Apr-2001 Troy M. Barnhart wrote: > I've heard from three different sources that developers on IBM's AIX > team are looking at FreeBSD to port over their JFS. > (The newest AIX implementation was re-wrote on a Linux kernel.) > > barney > > > At 05:09 AM 04/25/2001 , Bill Vermillion wrote: >>On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:39:55PM -0400, Robert Watson thus sprach: >> >>> There are at least two journalled file system implementations for FreeBSD, >>> unfortunately neither is publically available at this point, and both are >>> research prototypes for somewhat older versions of FreeBSD. Take a look >>> at the paper by McKusick, et al, at the June 2000 USENIX Technical >> >>Is this on line somewhere. If so is there a pointer? >> >>Thanks. >> >>Bill >> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Alexander Kabaev Date: 25-Apr-2001 Time: 08:11:41 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 20:54:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529B837B422; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24158; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:54:25 -0400 (EDT) From: scanner@jurai.net To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After many, many, MANY people asking for help on configuring Vinum, and not being able to understand the man page, I put together a small HOWTO on Vinum. I would like to eventually see it wind up in the handbook. But right now I'm just looking to get feedback on the content. Any thoughts appreciated. Many thanks! ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Apr 25 21: 3:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E403337B423; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24416; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: BRAINO! RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook MkII Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This might help: http://www.jurai.net/~scanner/vinum-howto.html Sorry! ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 8:10: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-2.worldonline.es (pop3-2.worldonline.es [212.7.33.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B239437B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.rodriguez@es.tiscali.com) Received: from belial.tm.wolnet.worldonline.es (tm0.worldonline.es [212.7.34.10]) by pop3-2.worldonline.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE22D3563; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:08:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wol209.tm.bcn.worldonline.ct (IDENT:jesus.rodriguez@wol209.tm.bcn.worldonline.ct [10.34.0.209]) by belial.tm.wolnet.worldonline.es (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3QF8AR49706; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:08:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jesus.rodriguez@es.tiscali.com) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:27:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Jesus Rodriguez X-Sender: jesus.rodriguez@wol209.tm.bcn.worldonline.ct To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BRAINO! RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook MkII In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 scanner@jurai.net wrote: >=20 > This might help: http://www.jurai.net/~scanner/vinum-howto.html Sounds good to me... but Greg is the real expert :) Saludos JesusR. ------------------------------------- Jes=FAs Rodr=EDguez IP Engineering & Security Manager Tiscali / World Online jesus.rodriguez@es.tiscali.com http://www.worldonline.es Tel. + (34) 93-3930800 ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 9:34:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A3437B423; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f3QGYdU00967; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:34:39 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: mckusick@freebsd.org Cc: fs@freebsd.org Subject: versioned files via snapshot evilness. Message-ID: <20010426093439.J18676@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-all-your-base: are belong to us. Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm wondering if it might be possible to abuse the ffs snapshot stuff to do file versioning ala VMS. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [alfred@freebsd.org] http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~slumos/on-netbsd.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 10:46:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ECB37B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:46:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28384; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAFQaOr3; Thu Apr 26 10:46:20 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA24236; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:49:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200104261749.KAA24236@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. To: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:49:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mckusick@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010426093439.J18676@fw.wintelcom.net> from "Alfred Perlstein" at Apr 26, 2001 09:34:39 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm wondering if it might be possible to abuse the ffs snapshot > stuff to do file versioning ala VMS. Not really, IMO. Versioning ala VMS requires kernel globbing, or amazingly intrusive library modifications, coupled with a guarantee by programmers that they will only use the preferred APIs in their applications. Consider how you would make: fd = open( "foo", O_RDWR, 0); open version 17 of the file "foo", as opposed to an earlier version, and how you would tag versions into the file names, without stealing a character (e.g. ";"). Also note that "/" is valid in a UTF-8 filename today, if it is part of a multibyte sequence (but FreeBSD can not handle this). The only permissable namespace escape mechanism on UNIX is the POSIX "///" sequence. Unfortunately, FreeBSD's "namei", "lookup", and individual per-FS "VOP_LOOKUP" routines are broken, in that a namespace escape would need to be specified per-path component, since it could not be inherited by subsequent components. Fixing this is hard (but not impossible; I've done it twice now), and without the fix, you end up with "///////" to get a full path, or you get "////" (both of these latter are illegal, since POSIX only permits the escape at the start of the path). You could create a "poor man's versioning system" using a modified union FS (to take the initial namespace escape) mounted over top of a folded namespace FS, mounted over e.g. FFS, to do the job of letting you say "///" or just "", if you only wanted the latest version. But this would still leave you with the problem of how to _list_ which versions were available for any given file, which -- again -- requires globbing in the kernel. Make sense? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 10:56:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (Aphex.newgold.net [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B1DE937B424 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 22149 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Apr 2001 16:50:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Joseph Mallett To: Cc: Robert Watson , Subject: Re: journeling fs In-Reply-To: <20010425070923.B4313@wjv.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:39:55PM -0400, Robert Watson thus sprach: > > > There are at least two journalled file system implementations for FreeBSD, > > unfortunately neither is publically available at this point, and both are > > research prototypes for somewhat older versions of FreeBSD. Take a look > > at the paper by McKusick, et al, at the June 2000 USENIX Technical > > Is this on line somewhere. If so is there a pointer? Kirk's site should have the links: www.mckusick.com > > Thanks. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com -- [ Joseph Mallett ] [ xMach Core Team xMach: Proactively Unbloated Microkernel BSD ] [ Proud Open/Free/Net/4.4BSD User; C Programmer; Mad ] [ www.xMach.org ] Those who dial will know its meaning: 6545666,555,666,6545666655654 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 11:10:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51A337B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f3QIABe03751; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:10:11 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Terry Lambert Cc: mckusick@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. Message-ID: <20010426111010.M18676@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010426093439.J18676@fw.wintelcom.net> <200104261749.KAA24236@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200104261749.KAA24236@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:49:33PM +0000 X-all-your-base: are belong to us. Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Terry Lambert [010426 10:46] wrote: > > I'm wondering if it might be possible to abuse the ffs snapshot > > stuff to do file versioning ala VMS. > > Not really, IMO. > > Versioning ala VMS requires kernel globbing, or amazingly > intrusive library modifications, coupled with a guarantee > by programmers that they will only use the preferred APIs > in their applications. > > Consider how you would make: > > fd = open( "foo", O_RDWR, 0); > > open version 17 of the file "foo", as opposed to an earlier version, > and how you would tag versions into the file names, without stealing > a character (e.g. ";"). Also note that "/" is valid in a UTF-8 > filename today, if it is part of a multibyte sequence (but FreeBSD > can not handle this). It would be nice if "foo" was the "HEAD" version of the file and each new open for write _could_ cause a foo;#ver or something to be created. I was asking more to find out the capabilities that snapshots brings versus the pre-existing limitations in the namespace code currently in place. More, can we snapshot individual files? -- -Alfred Perlstein - [alfred@freebsd.org] Represent yourself, show up at BABUG http://www.babug.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 13:18: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from tonnant.cnchost.com (tonnant.concentric.net [207.155.248.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D4A37B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by tonnant.cnchost.com id QAA11266; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:17:40 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.10] Message-ID: <200104262017.QAA11266@tonnant.cnchost.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), mckusick@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:49:33 -0000." <200104261749.KAA24236@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:17:39 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm wondering if it might be possible to abuse the ffs snapshot > > stuff to do file versioning ala VMS. > Not really, IMO. > Versioning ala VMS requires kernel globbing, or amazingly > intrusive library modifications, coupled with a guarantee > by programmers that they will only use the preferred APIs > in their applications. Well... you can do this by treating each file as a directory, where each version creates a new file. Each branch in turn creates a subdir. You can do `ls -R ' to list all versions of a file. A release would be a snapshot of all the files. Something like: $ touch foo $ mount -t cvs foo foo $ date > foo $ ls -R foo 1 $ date > foo $ ls -R foo 1 2 $ date > foo/1 ls -R foo 1/1 2 Requires a considerable generalization of the directory concept and a very lightweight mount capability. IMHO dir generalization can be a very rich source of new and interesting design choices. For instance, one should be able to view *any* collection of data as a directory and be able to manipulate this collection in a consistent manner. Of course, this would do considerably more violence to the kernel than just adding kernel globbing and I am sure POSIX would have a hissy-fit but remember, the buzzword these days is `disruptive technology':-) I have a vague recollection that the Thoth OS (David Cheriton's PhD thesis, UofWaterloo) had unified dir and files but no generalized directories beyond that. -- bakul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 15: 2: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545CB37B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA58016; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:01:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Apr 2001 00:01:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org scanner@jurai.net writes: > After many, many, MANY people asking for help on configuring Vinum, and > not being able to understand the man page, I put together a small HOWTO on > Vinum. The man page has numerous examples which should be quite simple to follow. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 15: 6: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C23E37B424; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA43740; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27 Apr 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > The man page has numerous examples which should be quite simple to > follow. Again. If you have done this 100 times and can do it in your sleep yes. They make perfect sense. If you are completely new, or not expereinced in volume managers, that entire man page is greek. There is still nothing easy for the above mentioned people in the handbook. And people seem to like this HOWTO so I'm hoping to add it to the handbook eventually. We can never have to much documentation. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 15:55:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7D137B422; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26633; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAtGaO8Z; Thu Apr 26 15:55:10 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09326; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:58:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200104262258.PAA09326@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. To: bakul@bitblocks.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:57:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), mckusick@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200104262017.QAA11266@tonnant.cnchost.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 26, 2001 01:17:39 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Versioning ala VMS requires kernel globbing, or amazingly > > intrusive library modifications, coupled with a guarantee > > by programmers that they will only use the preferred APIs > > in their applications. > > Well... you can do this by treating each file as a directory, This is the folded namespace approach. In the user's "view" onto the filesystem, they would see only the "file" name, and when they reference the file, they get the most recent version in the directory. You still need a seperate handler for the namespace escape to do the version redirection of the name, or to select the most recent version, if no escape is present. This still leaves you hanging out to try over listing all version of the file from the user's point of view, as VMS did, without a ";" namespace intrusion (as opposed to an escape). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 16:49: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sheffield.cnchost.com (sheffield.concentric.net [207.155.252.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A6837B423 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:49:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by sheffield.cnchost.com id TAA10209; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:48:56 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.11] Message-ID: <200104262348.TAA10209@sheffield.cnchost.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG, bakul@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:57:59 -0000." <200104262258.PAA09326@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:48:56 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Versioning ala VMS requires kernel globbing, or amazingly > > > intrusive library modifications, coupled with a guarantee > > > by programmers that they will only use the preferred APIs > > > in their applications. > > > > Well... you can do this by treating each file as a directory, > > This is the folded namespace approach. In the user's "view" > onto the filesystem, they would see only the "file" name, and > when they reference the file, they get the most recent version in the directory. Likely my example was not clear. The user gets both views: as a file and a dir, depending on the open mode. For example, as a file when you do open("foo",...) and as a dir when you do open("foo/", ...). Either a trailing slash or with an open mode or something to select between the two. If you want the latest HEAD version you open "foo". If you want a specific version 1.2, you open "foo/1/2". Should there be further branching 1.2.{1,2,..n}, opening "foo/1/2" will automatically give you the latest sub version. So this scheme extends very nicely to a tree of versions as opposed to the '; ' scheme which is flat. > You still need a seperate handler for the namespace escape to do > the version redirection of the name, or to select the most recent > version, if no escape is present. This still leaves you hanging > out to try over listing all version of the file from the user's > point of view, as VMS did, without a ";" namespace > intrusion (as opposed to an escape). What is wrong with `ls -R foo' if you want to list every created version and `ls foo/1/2/*' if you want to list all the same level sub versions of 1.2? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Apr 26 18: 5:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DD337B424 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmukler@mail.ru) Received: from tp600e (user-2iveate.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.43.174]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25765 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <03b901c0ceb6$27ceae00$7b02a8c0@tp600e> From: "Igor Shmukler" To: Subject: more on FFS Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:05:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B6_01C0CE94.9C27A760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B6_01C0CE94.9C27A760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How do I find where on disk ROOT inode is located. I tried to thru sources, but FS structure quite large and I get lost in = offsets. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_03B6_01C0CE94.9C27A760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How do I find where on disk ROOT inode is=20 located.

I tried to thru sources, but FS structure quite = large and I=20 get lost in offsets.

Thank you.

------=_NextPart_000_03B6_01C0CE94.9C27A760-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Apr 27 5:49: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D4C4E37B423 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 05:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from iedowse@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 27 Apr 2001 13:48:58 +0100 (BST) To: Igor Shmukler Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, iedowse@maths.tcd.ie Subject: Re: more on FFS In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:05:23 EDT." <03b901c0ceb6$27ceae00$7b02a8c0@tp600e> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:48:58 +0100 From: Ian Dowse Message-ID: <200104271348.aa54585@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <03b901c0ceb6$27ceae00$7b02a8c0@tp600e>, Igor Shmukler writes: > >How do I find where on disk ROOT inode is located. >I tried to thru sources, but FS structure quite large and I get lost in = >offsets. The `ino_to_fsba' and `ino_to_fsbo' macros defined in fs.h are probably what you want. `ino_to_fsba' returns the offset from the start of the partition of the block containing the specified inode. This offset is in units of the filesystem fragment size, and you are expected to read a full fs_bsize block starting at that offset. Then `ino_to_fsbo' tells you the inode number within that block. e.g. (untested, and has no error checking): struct fs *fs; char *sbbuf; char *blockbuf; struct dinode *dip; off_t offset; fd = open("/dev/da0s1a", O_RDONLY); /* read superblock and point `fs' at it. */ sbbuf = malloc(SBSIZE); pread(fd, sbbuf, SBSIZE, SBOFF); fs = (struct fs *)sbbuf; /* Get the root inode */ offset = (off_t)ino_to_fsba(fs, ROOTINO) * (off_t)fs->fs_fsize; blockbuf = malloc(fs->fs_bsize); pread(fd, blockbuf, fs->fs_bsize, offset); dip = &((struct dinode *)blockbuf)[ino_to_fsbo(fs, ROOTINO)]; /* `dip' now points to the root inode */ Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Apr 27 8:12:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from merchandisewholesale.com (ci392057-b.ruthfd1.tn.home.com [24.15.72.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 03DF137B625 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cs@merchandisewholesale.com) From: "Merchandise WholeSale" To: Subject: Grand Opening Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:06:52 -0700 Reply-To: "Merchandise WholeSale" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010427151219.03DF137B625@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First off I would like to Thank You for taking time to read this letter. Second of all your e-mail address was pulled from an on-line source. This is the only & last message you'll receive from us, so you don't have to worry about an unsubscribe list or spam. Nor will we give your e-mail out to any one else. I'd like to stop, and tell you about a new ON-LINE Retail store. Merchandise Wholesale, a retail store that has over 2,000 products for home,travel,jewelry,personal needs etc... Please take time out when you have it to browse our ON-LINE directory at http://www.merchandisewholesale.com Click on any images of the item to enlarge. Our site is always under constant change for the better. Thanks for your precious time, HTTP://MERCHANDISEWHOLESALE.COM promotions@merchandisewholesale.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Apr 27 9:51:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0DD37B422; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmukler@mail.ru) Received: from tp600e (user-2ivebdo.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.45.184]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22139; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006501c0cf3a$597d2380$7b02a8c0@tp600e> From: "Igor Shmukler" To: "Ian Dowse" Cc: , References: <200104271348.aa54585@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: more on FFS Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:51:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > >How do I find where on disk ROOT inode is located. > >I tried to thru sources, but FS structure quite large and I get lost in = > >offsets. > > The `ino_to_fsba' and `ino_to_fsbo' macros defined in fs.h are probably > what you want. `ino_to_fsba' returns the offset from the start of the > partition of the block containing the specified inode. This offset is > in units of the filesystem fragment size, and you are expected to read > a full fs_bsize block starting at that offset. Then `ino_to_fsbo' tells > you the inode number within that block. e.g. (untested, and has no > error checking): > > struct fs *fs; > char *sbbuf; > char *blockbuf; > struct dinode *dip; > off_t offset; > > fd = open("/dev/da0s1a", O_RDONLY); > > /* read superblock and point `fs' at it. */ > sbbuf = malloc(SBSIZE); > pread(fd, sbbuf, SBSIZE, SBOFF); > fs = (struct fs *)sbbuf; > > /* Get the root inode */ > offset = (off_t)ino_to_fsba(fs, ROOTINO) * (off_t)fs->fs_fsize; > blockbuf = malloc(fs->fs_bsize); > pread(fd, blockbuf, fs->fs_bsize, offset); > dip = &((struct dinode *)blockbuf)[ino_to_fsbo(fs, ROOTINO)]; > > /* `dip' now points to the root inode */ > I ran this thing on a 1.44M floppy and came out to offset 0x7000 dip 0x804e100. Does not seem right to me. Is filesystem fragment size 512? Any ideas? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Apr 27 10:27:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A0BA37B424; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17429; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAuuaGaI; Fri Apr 27 10:25:46 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01251; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:28:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200104271728.KAA01251@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. To: bakul@bitblocks.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:28:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), fs@FreeBSD.ORG, bakul@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200104262348.TAA10209@sheffield.cnchost.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 26, 2001 04:48:56 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > This is the folded namespace approach. In the user's "view" > > onto the filesystem, they would see only the "file" name, and > > when they reference the file, they get the most recent version > > in the directory. > > Likely my example was not clear. The user gets both views: > as a file and a dir, depending on the open mode. For > example, as a file when you do open("foo",...) and as a dir > when you do open("foo/", ...). Either a trailing slash or > with an open mode or something to select between the two. This is not permitted by POSIX. > If you want the latest HEAD version you open "foo". If you > want a specific version 1.2, you open "foo/1/2". Should > there be further branching 1.2.{1,2,..n}, opening "foo/1/2" > will automatically give you the latest sub version. So this > scheme extends very nicely to a tree of versions as opposed > to the '; ' scheme which is flat. How would you enforce version limits on these trees? In a flat space in VMS, it is rather trivial to set up an ACL that will limit you to 6 versions simultaneously, and delete version 9 when you create version 16. In your approach, there is no way to delete the tree out from under yourself safely. You end up having to keep all versions (at least those with children) for all time. Realize also that the VMS version system was very clever; since VMS had a record oriented FS, only the records which changed were in the new version. This means that the VMS system was much closer to an SCCS system (I guess hence the common case of calling such things "revision control" or "version control" systems). In other words, versioning leveraged very heavily off the FILES-11 fielsystem. For a UNIX version of this, without a new FS type that internally implemented record-oriented storage (and the concommitant ability to defragment the FS space), you would need to copy the entire file. You can't even break it up on disk blocks and share them, since you can never tell when a user space program has implied a multi-stage commit operation and gathered it into itself, and had data change -- and then change back. The fact that data written to an area is the same as the data previously in the are is therefore not usable as a hint to determine whether or not the "unmodified" page should be replicated into the new version of the file, or not. Effectively, this would mean that you couldn't just "cheat" and imply "copy on write" semantics on disk blocks to create new versions. Further, opening a file for write implied the versioning operation. Only the last close indicated that subsequent opens would result in a new version (this was overridden, in the case of opening a specific version). Your implication of a tree of versions _must_ necessarily destroy the ability to open without creating a new version, when closing following a write/trucate operation. > > You still need a seperate handler for the namespace escape to do > > the version redirection of the name, or to select the most recent > > version, if no escape is present. This still leaves you hanging > > out to try over listing all version of the file from the user's > > point of view, as VMS did, without a ";" namespace > > intrusion (as opposed to an escape). > > What is wrong with `ls -R foo' if you want to list every > created version and `ls foo/1/2/*' if you want to list all > the same level sub versions of 1.2? How about "it's disallowed by POSIX"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Apr 27 11: 6:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E3F37B423; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21990; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:06:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAGwaq7Q; Fri Apr 27 11:06:07 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02198; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:07:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200104271807.LAA02198@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: more on FFS To: shmukler@mail.ru (Igor Shmukler) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:07:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: iedowse@maths.tcd.ie (Ian Dowse), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <006501c0cf3a$597d2380$7b02a8c0@tp600e> from "Igor Shmukler" at Apr 27, 2001 12:51:45 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I ran this thing on a 1.44M floppy and came out to offset 0x7000 dip > 0x804e100. > Does not seem right to me. Is filesystem fragment size 512? You are looking at the inode. The data in the directory is hung of the direct blocks off the inode, and is not soterd in the inode itself. This is unlike VFAT, where the directory entry _is_ the "inode" (this is also why VFAT can not support hard links, but FFS can). For the directory data itself, when you get there... Directories are stored in 512b blocks, directly, so that all operations on them are atomic. Directories are _not_ stored as normal files, in terms of the FS block size. They are, however, aggregated into larger fragments, and eventually into blocks, if they become large enough to do that. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Apr 28 11:19:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from glatton.cnchost.com (glatton.cnchost.com [207.155.248.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633F437B423 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by glatton.cnchost.com id OAA00877; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:19:22 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.10] Message-ID: <200104281819.OAA00877@glatton.cnchost.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: versioned files via snapshot evilness. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:28:25 -0000." <200104271728.KAA01251@usr07.primenet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:19:22 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Likely my example was not clear. The user gets both views: > > as a file and a dir, depending on the open mode. For > > example, as a file when you do open("foo",...) and as a dir > > when you do open("foo/", ...). Either a trailing slash or > > with an open mode or something to select between the two. > > This is not permitted by POSIX. Please see my previous response. I already said posix won't like this. Not sure it would like kernel globbing either (needed to expand ";*" ). > How would you enforce version limits on these trees? In a flat > space in VMS, it is rather trivial to set up an ACL that will > limit you to 6 versions simultaneously, and delete version 9 when > you create version 16. I wouldn't. When I used VMS I didn't find version limits useful except to save space and for that I'd rather just use the quota system. > In your approach, there is no way to delete the tree out from > under yourself safely. You end up having to keep all versions > (at least those with children) for all time. rm foo/1/2/3 # delete the latest version of foo 1.2.3 rm -rf foo/1/2/3/ # delete all sub-versions of foo 1.2.3 But undoubtedly there are other holes. I am well aware that to turn this on-the-spur-of-the-moment idea into reality requires a proper, careful design that handles all the boundary conditions and corner cases. And it may turn out to be a non-trivial task. I simply wanted to point out that the concept of file namespace can be extended in a uniform manner to cover this and other cases -- of course, it is a lot harder to extend a well defined interface naturally than to simply add another incompatible interface. Doesn't Atria or Clearcase or Rational have a versioning filesystem? Though I know nothing about it. > For a UNIX version of this, without a new FS type that internally > implemented record-oriented storage (and the concommitant ability > to defragment the FS space), you would need to copy the entire > file. That is why in my example I envisioned a `cvs' filesystem. I would simply use foo,v (rcs) or s.foo (sccs) or something like it. I wouldn't want this facility to be pervasive where every filesystem must provide this support. > You can't even break it up on disk blocks and share them, since > you can never tell when a user space program has implied a > multi-stage commit operation and gathered it into itself, and > had data change -- and then change back. I believe the trend is to divorce the on-disk representation of a file (or a filesystem) from a *view* provided on it. This is already the case in a limited sense -- ffs, ex2fs, xfs and so on all provide pretty much the same interface. A single file ala rcs or sccs provides one way to store the data -- certainly not as efficient as VMS. But as long as the _view_ is the same one should allow any representation, including caching whole files for frequently used versions of a file. > Further, opening a file for write implied the versioning operation. > Only the last close indicated that subsequent opens would result > in a new version (this was overridden, in the case of opening a > specific version). Your implication of a tree of versions _must_ > necessarily destroy the ability to open without creating a new > version, when closing following a write/trucate operation. If the view semantics are to not create a new version until there is an actual write (a reasonable expectation), one can implement that though it would be more complex. -- bakul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Apr 28 16:58: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DD337B423; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 108D16ACBC; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:27:09 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:27:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jesus Rodriguez Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BRAINO! RFC for Vinum HOW-TO for the handbook MkII Message-ID: <20010429092708.C52871@wantadilla.lemis.com> References:

Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jesus.rodriguez@es.tiscali.com on Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:27:04PM +0200 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 26 April 2001 at 17:27:04 +0200, Jesus Rodriguez wrote: > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 scanner@jurai.net wrote: > >> >> This might help: http://www.jurai.net/~scanner/vinum-howto.html > > Sounds good to me... but Greg is the real expert :) I'm looking at it. It's a good start, but there's quite a bit which needs changing. I'll try to get back Real Soon Now. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message