From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:13:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from tx.citynet.net (tx.citynet.net [208.154.179.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE63D37B408 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasonf@citynet.net) Received: from Neptune (63-149-76-22.citynet.net [63.149.76.22]) by tx.citynet.net (8.11.3/8.11.3=Outbound) with SMTP id f6GKDMs01024 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:13:22 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune> From: "Jason Francis" To: References: <20010712225653.75AD13811@overcee.netplex.com.au> Subject: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:14:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has the proposition of porting another filesystem to FreeBSD been considered? Given FFS's rather dismal performance compared to other filesystems, it would seem like a worthwhile effort. Market share of BSD in generally is dwindling, and things like the filesystem, lack of a multi-threaded IP stack, and lacking SMP support are precisely what's killing it. So, has there been any effort made by the community to get either a new filesystem written or an existing filesystem ported to FreeBSD? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:26:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667AD37B405 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:26:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id C586C5D010; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:26:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:26:30 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jason Francis Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010716152630.A22070@sneakerz.org> References: <20010712225653.75AD13811@overcee.netplex.com.au> <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune>; from jasonf@citynet.net on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 04:14:42PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Jason Francis [010716 15:13] wrote: > Has the proposition of porting another filesystem to FreeBSD been > considered? Given FFS's rather dismal performance compared to other > filesystems, it would seem like a worthwhile effort. > > Market share of BSD in generally is dwindling, and things like the > filesystem, lack of a multi-threaded IP stack, and lacking SMP support are > precisely what's killing it. > > So, has there been any effort made by the community to get either a new > filesystem written or an existing filesystem ported to FreeBSD? Let me make a couple of things absolutely clear: 1) FreeBSD has supported large files for years before commercial versions of unix have, and now that they do they have yummy interfaces like stat64. I think Linux finally got around to large file support about 6 months to a year ago. 2) FreeBSD (*BSD) filesystem performance is quite acceptable, some commercial variants exist that outperform it, but there's useless microbenchmarks to prove either way. 3) FreeBSD filesystem stability is a reality unlike under linux where you really have no choice when it comes to a stable and fast filesystem. You can run unproven new systems such as Reiser or ext3, or you can pay through the nose for systems like Veratis volume manager suite. 4) FreeBSD has supported SMP for at least 4 years now. The kernel is still mostly non-reentrant right now, but it's getting there. 5) For someone who seems quite sure about the "dwindling marketshare" of FreeBSD you sure haven't done a lot of research. Lastly, if you want to complain about BSD without contributing anything you can reach a much wider audience of lamers (like yourself) by posting here: http://www.slashdot.org/ Other fun things to post about are: "First Post." "Natalie Portman." "Relative merits of the GPL versus gargonzola cheeze." "How sun spots are contributing to the death of *BSD." happy hacking, -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:40:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2A137B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15MFAQ-000NRh-0A; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:40:34 +0000 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6GKdI784811; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:39:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:39:18 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jason Francis , Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010716152630.A22070@sneakerz.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Other fun things to post about are: > > "First Post." > "Natalie Portman." > "Relative merits of the GPL versus gargonzola cheeze." > "How sun spots are contributing to the death of *BSD." Isn't there something about "hot grits" as well? I forget. What the hell are "hot grits" anyway? -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:46:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from clio.sc.intel.com (scfdns01.sc.intel.com [143.183.152.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7E537B403 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:46:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sramkris@ichips.intel.com) Received: from ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (ichips-ra-hme2.intel.com [10.7.5.35]) by clio.sc.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.41 2001/07/09 21:06:22 root Exp $) with ESMTP id UAA16165; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:45:53 GMT Received: from plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (plxu2525.pdx.intel.com [10.7.50.43]) by ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id NAA20066; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sramkris@localhost) by plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (8.10.1/8.9.1/d: client-ra.m4,v 1.1 1998/12/24 19:00:55 jamesw Exp jamesw $) id f6GKjor16526; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:45:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:45:50 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Doug Rabson Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jason Francis , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010716134550.B16516@ichips.intel.com> References: <20010716152630.A22070@sneakerz.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dfr@nlsystems.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:39:18PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's like wheat germ stuff that are popular in the south. It's somehwat like oats. They usually have it with a lot of butter or some jelly. It's mostly tasteless. To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. sri On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:39:18PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Other fun things to post about are: > > > > "First Post." > > "Natalie Portman." > > "Relative merits of the GPL versus gargonzola cheeze." > > "How sun spots are contributing to the death of *BSD." > > Isn't there something about "hot grits" as well? I forget. What the hell > are "hot grits" anyway? > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:55:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B73037B408 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:55:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15MFOR-000D6C-0X; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:55:03 +0100 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6GKrl784902; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:53:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:53:47 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Sri Ramkrishna Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jason Francis , Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010716134550.B16516@ichips.intel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > It's like wheat germ stuff that are popular in the south. It's somehwat > like oats. They usually have it with a lot of butter or some jelly. > It's mostly tasteless. Sounds a lot like porridge :-(. > > To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling > filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these > days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's > getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In > any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. Actually, back on topic, I think that FFS+softupdatess+background fsck gives virtually all the benefits of journalled filesystems. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:56:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from maildrop.dub-t3-1.nwcgroup.com (maildrop.dub-t3-1.nwcgroup.com [195.129.80.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB8137B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:56:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from customerservice@playnetwork.com) Received: from maildrop (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maildrop.dub-t3-1.nwcgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EDFB4A36 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:56:08 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <81216763.995316968452.JavaMail.nwdmail@maildrop> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:56:08 +0000 (GMT+00:00) From: Reply-To: customerservice@playnetwork.com To: fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Save Up To 70% On Music For Your Business! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31050_20727035.995316968449" X-mailer: NewWorld Direct Java Mail Program X-uri: http://www.newworldcommerce.com X-Complaints: abuse@nwcgroup.com X-Bounce-Info: A56~bAhfFWRNB.Lmc~crabRg~Wa9pBb+uL+69+Zi~Jd+ql+EipJV+hAm+s4dS+eg6Y2RMi~oO~lKxVW+vHe+aw+gw~PZeG~UQIn+Uvv~QzwK~dinr+tcxl Return-Errors-To: customerservice@playnetwork.com X-Errors-To: customerservice@playnetwork.com Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Are you currently playing the radio as your in-store music source? Are you tired of all the deejay chatter and endless advertising? OR, are you using a CD player - and find your customers and employees hear the same music over and over because you're too busy to change CDs or buy new ones? Are you uncertain about paying ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC music licensing fees? 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------=_Part_31050_20727035.995316968449-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 13:56:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from clio.sc.intel.com (scfdns01.sc.intel.com [143.183.152.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C6F37B403 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sramkris@ichips.intel.com) Received: from ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (ichips-ra-hme2.intel.com [10.7.5.35]) by clio.sc.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.41 2001/07/09 21:06:22 root Exp $) with ESMTP id UAA21862; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:56:33 GMT Received: from plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (plxu2525.pdx.intel.com [10.7.50.43]) by ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id NAA22561; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sramkris@localhost) by plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (8.10.1/8.9.1/d: client-ra.m4,v 1.1 1998/12/24 19:00:55 jamesw Exp jamesw $) id f6GKuTK16531; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0700 From: Sri Ramkrishna To: Doug Rabson Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jason Francis , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010716135629.C16516@ichips.intel.com> References: <20010716134550.B16516@ichips.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dfr@nlsystems.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:53:47PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:53:47PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > It's like wheat germ stuff that are popular in the south. It's somehwat > > like oats. They usually have it with a lot of butter or some jelly. > > It's mostly tasteless. > > Sounds a lot like porridge :-(. It's much worse. ;) > > > > To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling > > filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these > > days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's > > getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In > > any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. > > Actually, back on topic, I think that FFS+softupdatess+background fsck > gives virtually all the benefits of journalled filesystems. > Do you have benchmarks or something I can look at? I'd be interested in the data. sri To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 14:12:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE6A37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15MFf7-0003AL-0A; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:12:17 +0000 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6GLB1785132; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:11:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:11:01 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Sri Ramkrishna Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jason Francis , Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010716135629.C16516@ichips.intel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:53:47PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > > > It's like wheat germ stuff that are popular in the south. It's somehwat > > > like oats. They usually have it with a lot of butter or some jelly. > > > It's mostly tasteless. > > > > Sounds a lot like porridge :-(. > > It's much worse. ;) > > > > > > > To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling > > > filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these > > > days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's > > > getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In > > > any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. > > > > Actually, back on topic, I think that FFS+softupdatess+background fsck > > gives virtually all the benefits of journalled filesystems. > > > > Do you have benchmarks or something I can look at? I'd be interested > in the data. I don't have amy benchmarks personally but I expect that some others on this list may have some. Personally, I just like the perceived performance improvements compared to vanilla FFS. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 14:17:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D3737B403 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 1AD1F5D010; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:17:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:17:35 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Doug Rabson Cc: Sri Ramkrishna , Jason Francis , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010716161734.D22070@sneakerz.org> References: <20010716135629.C16516@ichips.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from dfr@nlsystems.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 10:11:01PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Doug Rabson [010716 16:12] wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:53:47PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sri Ramkrishna wrote: > > > > > > > To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling > > > > filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these > > > > days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's > > > > getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In > > > > any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. > > > > > > Actually, back on topic, I think that FFS+softupdatess+background fsck > > > gives virtually all the benefits of journalled filesystems. > > > > > > > Do you have benchmarks or something I can look at? I'd be interested > > in the data. > > I don't have amy benchmarks personally but I expect that some others on > this list may have some. Personally, I just like the perceived performance > improvements compared to vanilla FFS. One of the problems is even with background fsck, you have a much longer period of degraded performance to both maintain the snapshot as well as scan the filesystem in the background unlike a logging filesystem which can fully recover in a much shorter time period. Still, it's not too bad. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 14:22:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bilver.wjv.com (dhcp-1-173.n01.orldfl01.us.ra.verio.net [157.238.210.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D2F37B40A for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bill@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bill@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6GLIkg78593; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:18:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bill) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:18:17 -0400 From: Bill Vermillion To: Sri Ramkrishna Cc: Doug Rabson , Alfred Perlstein , Jason Francis , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010716171817.A78307@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References: <20010716152630.A22070@sneakerz.org> <20010716134550.B16516@ichips.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010716134550.B16516@ichips.intel.com>; from sramkris@ichips.intel.com on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 01:45:50PM -0700 Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 01:45:50PM -0700, Sri Ramkrishna thus sprach: > It's like wheat germ stuff that are popular in the south. It's > somehwat like oats. They usually have it with a lot of butter or > some jelly. It's mostly tasteless. Har har har!! Waitress to customer in Southern restaurant. "If you didn't want grits why did you order breakfast?" Nothing like wheat germ. Nothing like oats. It's just white corn meal as opposed to yellow corn meal. Usually ground a bit coarser. Most cooked grains don't have strong flavors. Have you had oatmeal with no sugar, milk, etc,., just plain ? :=) > To keep this on topic though, I remember some talk about journalling > filesystems and getting that. Hopefully we'll have one one of these > days. With disks getting larger and larger (EMC has 181G drives) it's > getting harder not to go with a journalling type of filesystem. In > any case, it's just a off hand comment. We'll get there I'm sure. Seagate also has 180GB SCSI drives. This week there was a big sale on 100GB IDE drives in one of the local electronics store. $299 for 100GB is pretty reasonably priced storage. I like the robustness I saw on xfs on Irix. Has anyone looked at performance of one of the circular log type files. All files are stored in contiguous pieces. I can see that it would be a poor performer on database files. > On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:39:18PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > Other fun things to post about are: > > > "First Post." > > > "Natalie Portman." > > > "Relative merits of the GPL versus gargonzola cheeze." > > > "How sun spots are contributing to the death of *BSD." > > Isn't there something about "hot grits" as well? I forget. What the hell > > are "hot grits" anyway? -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Jul 16 18:42:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF9337B41C for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 5CA706ACC1; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:10:34 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:10:34 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jason Francis Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010717111034.D70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010712225653.75AD13811@overcee.netplex.com.au> <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune>; from jasonf@citynet.net on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 04:14:42PM -0400 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 16 July 2001 at 16:14:42 -0400, Jason Francis wrote: > Has the proposition of porting another filesystem to FreeBSD been > considered? Yes. > Given FFS's rather dismal performance compared to other filesystems, > it would seem like a worthwhile effort. Do you have figures? Most people who talk about file system performance can't back it up. > Market share of BSD in generally is dwindling, and things like the > filesystem, lack of a multi-threaded IP stack, and lacking SMP > support are precisely what's killing it. This doesn't tie up with my observations. Again, I'd be interested in your figures. > So, has there been any effort made by the community to get either a > new filesystem written or an existing filesystem ported to FreeBSD? I've been thinking about it. If you want to start on one, I'll certainly be available to answer questions, but I don't have time to do much work on it myself. Which file system were you thinking of. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 1:13:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.clues.com [194.159.1.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96E437B406; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.11.3/8.9.3) id f6H8K3271056; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:20:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from geoffb) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:20:03 +0100 From: Geoff Buckingham To: Greg Lehey Cc: Jason Francis , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010717092003.A71021@chuggalug.clues.com> References: <20010712225653.75AD13811@overcee.netplex.com.au> <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune> <20010717111034.D70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <20010717111034.D70499@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:10:34AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What became of the GFS folks? I seem to recall their file system could be used as a local journaled fs in addition to the shared SAN functionality, and they were talking about releasing it under a dual GPL/BSD licence. -- GeoffB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 1:22:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web13303.mail.yahoo.com (web13303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 810FF37B409 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sumirati@yahoo.de) Message-ID: <20010717082210.76404.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.174.9.99] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:22:10 CEST Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:22:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?m=20p?= Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD To: jasonf@citynet.net, grog@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, let it be technical again. I wanted to do a little bit more research before bringing up the idea of porting the GPLed version of JFS to *BSD. But now is better than else. JFS would be a nice thing for mail/database/http/file-servers. I can not state "that filesystem is better than this". But a filesystem developed by a big company to use it with linux - why do we not port it? Things i wanted to research before starting it: 1) Is there anybody doing it and needing help? 2) What filesystem/booting-process/lvm-stuff is under development in -current? 3) How do i have to modify the kernel to support JFS? (or modify the linux kernel wrapper) 4) How do i kernel programming (if needed)? 5) What _exactly_ is a filesystem? When these points are clear (worst case i have to do a research on all 5, best case only on point 1) i will start the project. Is there any big step i missed during brainstorming? I've got a lot of time left, 300 km from home alone in a motel. Thanks for any hints Marc __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 1:31:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2B537B403 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C9CC76ACBC; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:01:09 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:01:09 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: m p Cc: jasonf@citynet.net, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010717180109.V70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010717082210.76404.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010717082210.76404.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>; from sumirati@yahoo.de on Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 10:22:10AM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 10:22:10 +0200, m p wrote: > Hi, > > let it be technical again. > > I wanted to do a little bit more research before > bringing up the idea of porting the GPLed version of > JFS to *BSD. But now is better than else. > > JFS would be a nice thing for > mail/database/http/file-servers. I can not state "that > filesystem is better than this". But a filesystem > developed by a big company to use it with linux - why > do we not port it? Well, there's a significant amount of effort involved, for one thing. BSD kernel internals are very different from Linux. But if you want to work on it, I can offer official support. > Things i wanted to research before starting it: > 1) Is there anybody doing it and needing help? Not that I know of. > 2) What filesystem/booting-process/lvm-stuff is under > development in -current? Vinum root file systems are just a SMOP away. I had it running over a year ago, but didn't have time to make some minor modifications. > 3) How do i have to modify the kernel to support JFS? > (or modify the linux kernel wrapper) It's certainly more than modifying the Linux kernel wrapper. It's too early to guess exactly how much work it might be. > 4) How do i kernel programming (if needed)? I don't understand this question. > 5) What _exactly_ is a filesystem? Well, I would think you would understand this already. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. > When these points are clear (worst case i have to do a research on > all 5, best case only on point 1) i will start the project. > > Is there any big step i missed during brainstorming? Well, maybe the magnitude of the project. It's not easy, and even the recently released Linux version of the file system has significant "issues". Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 3:14:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web13304.mail.yahoo.com (web13304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EC5F637B401 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 03:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sumirati@yahoo.de) Message-ID: <20010717101417.58152.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.174.9.99] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:14:17 CEST Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:14:17 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?m=20p?= Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD To: Greg Lehey Cc: jasonf@citynet.net, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010717180109.V70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Greg Lehey schrieb: > On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 10:22:10 +0200, m p > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > let it be technical again. > > > > I wanted to do a little bit more research before > > bringing up the idea of porting the GPLed version > of > > JFS to *BSD. But now is better than else. > > > > JFS would be a nice thing for > > mail/database/http/file-servers. I can not state > "that > > filesystem is better than this". But a filesystem > > developed by a big company to use it with linux - > why > > do we not port it? > > Well, there's a significant amount of effort > involved, for one thing. > BSD kernel internals are very different from Linux. > But if you want > to work on it, I can offer official support. > > > Things i wanted to research before starting it: > > 1) Is there anybody doing it and needing help? > > Not that I know of. > > > 2) What filesystem/booting-process/lvm-stuff is > under > > development in -current? > > Vinum root file systems are just a SMOP away. I had > it running over a > year ago, but didn't have time to make some minor > modifications. In a statement (i don't remember where; a quick google search i didn't found it) a road-plan was described. It mentioned a project hosted at www.freebsd/~??? (it was three letters i rember). There was a new layout for volumes and the boot process described. > > > 3) How do i have to modify the kernel to support > JFS? > > (or modify the linux kernel wrapper) > > It's certainly more than modifying the Linux kernel > wrapper. It's too > early to guess exactly how much work it might be. > > > 4) How do i kernel programming (if needed)? > > I don't understand this question. I had never done kernel hacking before. (Perhaps the sentence above would read better this way: how do i do porgramming at the kernel level "the right way" tm?) And yes, i will buy the book mentioned by Kris Kennaway some days ago at freebsd-questions " Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System". Is there another good source about kernel hacking? > > > 5) What _exactly_ is a filesystem? > > Well, I would think you would understand this > already. Or maybe I'm > misunderstanding your point. I don't know much about concepts behind that word. What _exactly_ means journaling? How is made sure, that the log-files to replay the action are consistent? etc. I heard about filesystems a little bit. It is a way to learn more about them. But to know more about that will make the work easier. > > > When these points are clear (worst case i have to > do a research on > > all 5, best case only on point 1) i will start the > project. > > > > Is there any big step i missed during > brainstorming? > > Well, maybe the magnitude of the project. It's not > easy, and even the > recently released Linux version of the file system > has significant > "issues". As i mentioned: i've got plenty of time the next year working under the week somewhere else and living in a motel. No people i knew nearby. So coding will prevent me from looking to much tv. :) Marc > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 3:25:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web13307.mail.yahoo.com (web13307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B340537B406 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 03:25:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sumirati@yahoo.de) Message-ID: <20010717102529.96766.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.174.9.99] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:25:29 CEST Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:25:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?m=20p?= Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD To: Greg Lehey Cc: jasonf@citynet.net, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010717180109.V70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Greg Lehey schrieb: > On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 10:22:10 +0200, m p > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > let it be technical again. > > > > I wanted to do a little bit more research before > > bringing up the idea of porting the GPLed version > of > > JFS to *BSD. But now is better than else. > > > > JFS would be a nice thing for > > mail/database/http/file-servers. I can not state > "that > > filesystem is better than this". But a filesystem > > developed by a big company to use it with linux - > why > > do we not port it? > > Well, there's a significant amount of effort > involved, for one thing. > BSD kernel internals are very different from Linux. > But if you want > to work on it, I can offer official support. > > > Things i wanted to research before starting it: > > 1) Is there anybody doing it and needing help? > > Not that I know of. > > > 2) What filesystem/booting-process/lvm-stuff is > under > > development in -current? > > Vinum root file systems are just a SMOP away. I had > it running over a > year ago, but didn't have time to make some minor > modifications. In a statement (i don't remember where; a quick google search i didn't found it) a road-plan was described. It mentioned a project hosted at www.freebsd/~??? (it was three letters i rember). There was a new layout for volumes and the boot process described. > > > 3) How do i have to modify the kernel to support > JFS? > > (or modify the linux kernel wrapper) > > It's certainly more than modifying the Linux kernel > wrapper. It's too > early to guess exactly how much work it might be. > > > 4) How do i kernel programming (if needed)? > > I don't understand this question. I had never done kernel hacking before. (Perhaps the sentence above would read better this way: how do i do porgramming at the kernel level "the right way" tm?) And yes, i will buy the book mentioned by Kris Kennaway some days ago at freebsd-questions " Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System". Is there another good source about kernel hacking? > > > 5) What _exactly_ is a filesystem? > > Well, I would think you would understand this > already. Or maybe I'm > misunderstanding your point. I don't know much about concepts behind that word. What _exactly_ means journaling? How is made sure, that the log-files to replay the action are consistent? etc. I heard about filesystems a little bit. It is a way to learn more about them. But to know more about that will make the work easier. > > > When these points are clear (worst case i have to > do a research on > > all 5, best case only on point 1) i will start the > project. > > > > Is there any big step i missed during > brainstorming? > > Well, maybe the magnitude of the project. It's not > easy, and even the > recently released Linux version of the file system > has significant > "issues". As i mentioned: i've got plenty of time the next year working under the week somewhere else and living in a motel. No people i knew nearby. So coding will prevent me from looking to much tv. :) Marc > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 6:57:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bilver.wjv.com (dhcp-1-94.n01.orldfl01.us.ra.verio.net [157.238.210.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB8137B403 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:57:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bill@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bill@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6HDZGC82933; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:35:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bill) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:34:34 -0400 From: Bill Vermillion To: Jason Francis Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010717093434.E82350@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References: <20010712225653.75AD13811@overcee.netplex.com.au> <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <003001c10e33$f3e3fb50$0200000a@Neptune>; from jasonf@citynet.net on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 04:14:42PM -0400 Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 04:14:42PM -0400, Jason Francis thus sprach: > Has the proposition of porting another filesystem to FreeBSD been > considered? Given FFS's rather dismal performance compared to other > filesystems, it would seem like a worthwhile effort. Others? I've had BSD file systems performing at a minium of two times faster than 'other' Unix file system. Name the type of file system, and name the OS. I don't know how many different file systems [some were no more than file handlers and didn't deserve the name system]. At least one commercial OS I've worked with let you pick from one of 4 file-systems, or a mix of them. Picking the wrong file system for a particular applicaton can make things go down hill in a hurry. -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 7:11:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sistina.com (hermes.sistina.com [208.210.145.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7232837B405 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from declerck@sistina.com) Received: (qmail 26181 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:10:46 -0000 Received: from fry.sistina.com (HELO homer.sistina.com) (208.210.145.138) by hermes.sistina.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:10:46 -0000 Received: by homer.sistina.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:11:07 -0500 From: Mike Declerck Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:11:07 -0500 To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Cc: geoffb@chuggalog.clues.com, grog@freebsd.org, jasonf@citynet.net Message-Id: <20010717141108.7232837B405@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The GFS folks are still alive and out here :-) Mostly we have been fixing things up under Linux at the moment (shared writeable mmap across the cluster, quotas, performance, etc). We currently (this week) have two of our key developers, as well as myself, in McKusick's and Karel's Unix Internals class at the UCB extension. This was deemed the quickest method of jump starting the GFS port from Linx to FreeBSD. Hopefully by the end of the week we will have a better idea of the task ahead of us and the actual work it will involve. As soon as we develop a timeline/projection for the port we will let the community know. --- Michael Declerck declerck@sistina.com +1.510.823.7991 Director of Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Jul 17 17:38:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FB637B403 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id BD18B6ACBC; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:08:19 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:08:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: m p Cc: jasonf@citynet.net, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Porting a new filesystem to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010718100819.A70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010717180109.V70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010717102529.96766.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> <20010717180109.V70499@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010717101417.58152.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010717101417.58152.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>; from sumirati@yahoo.de on Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:14:17PM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Please read this document. Your messages verge on the unreadable, and it has taken me 5 minutes to tidy up the reply. On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 12:14:17 +0200, m p wrote: On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 12:25:29 +0200, m p wrote: I can't see any differences between these two messages. Was there one? > --- Greg Lehey schrieb: > On Tuesday, 17 July 2001 at 10:22:10 +0200, m p wrote: >>> 2) What filesystem/booting-process/lvm-stuff is under development >>> in -current? >> >> Vinum root file systems are just a SMOP away. I had it running >> over a year ago, but didn't have time to make some minor >> modifications. > > In a statement (i don't remember where; a quick google search i > didn't found it) a road-plan was described. It mentioned a project > hosted at www.freebsd/~??? (it was three letters i rember). There > was a new layout for volumes and the boot process described. I'm afraid you're going to have to quote these things correctly yourself. You can't expect other people to search for you. >>> 4) How do i kernel programming (if needed)? >> >> I don't understand this question. > > I had never done kernel hacking before. (Perhaps the sentence above > would read better this way: how do i do porgramming at the kernel > level "the right way" tm?) And yes, i will buy the book mentioned > by Kris Kennaway some days ago at freebsd-questions " Design and > Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System". Is there another > good source about kernel hacking? The 4.4BSD book will give you an understanding of the kernel structure. It won't help with kernel hacking. If you haven't done any kernel work before, porting a file system is probably overly ambitious. You should certainly join the FreeBSD-hackers list and look through the lists at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ and http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/contrib.html and see if there's something interesting to work on there. >>> 5) What _exactly_ is a filesystem? >> >> Well, I would think you would understand this already. Or maybe >> I'm misunderstanding your point. > > I don't know much about concepts behind that word. What _exactly_ > means journaling? How is made sure, that the log-files to replay the > action are consistent? etc. I heard about filesystems a little > bit. It is a way to learn more about them. But to know more about > that will make the work easier. Again, perusal of the web pages will help. Try http://oss.software.ibm.com/jfs/ for a start. >>> When these points are clear (worst case i have to do a research on >>> all 5, best case only on point 1) i will start the project. >>> >>> Is there any big step i missed during >> brainstorming? >> >> Well, maybe the magnitude of the project. It's not easy, and even >> the recently released Linux version of the file system has >> significant "issues". > > As i mentioned: i've got plenty of time the next year working under > the week somewhere else and living in a motel. No people i knew > nearby. So coding will prevent me from looking to much tv. :) Sounds like an ambitious project. As I said, I can support you, but you may find it more difficult than you bargained for. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. 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