From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Aug 19 2:36:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from zevs.idi.ntnu.no (zevs.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.110.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596B037B40C for ; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adf@idi.ntnu.no) Received: from idi.ntnu.no (IDENT:1892@vier.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.4]) by zevs.idi.ntnu.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10850; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:24:21 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200108182324.BAA10850@zevs.idi.ntnu.no> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 10/02/2000 with version: MH 6.8.3 #1[UCI] To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, adf@idi.ntnu.no Subject: Re: parsing problem with /proc/N/status In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:19:40 BST." <20010818141940.B877@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:24:21 +0200 From: Arne Dag Fidjestøl Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > newline). If we have to go down that road, I'd rather just encode > > whitespace and unprintables in octal notation (like ls -B does). Unprintables vary with locales, so octal encoding should probably be limited to ascii-whitespace? > Sounds fair. I don't particularly care, but as it stands it's next > to useless as it's unparsable. Provided that there is a known number of space-seperated fields it is still parsable. See attached program for a lightly-tested example. -adf #include #include #include #include #include #include #define PSTATUS "/proc/curproc/status" /* * return number of characters in progname, or -1 on error. */ int getprognamelen(const char *status, size_t len) { const char *s = status + len; int nspc = 14; /* number of field-seperating-spaces */ for (; s > status && nspc; s--) if (*s == ' ') nspc--; return nspc ? -1 : s - status + 1; } int main() { char buf[1024]; int i,f,sz; f = open(PSTATUS, O_RDONLY); if (f != -1) { sz = read(f, buf, sizeof(buf)); close(f); }else err(1, PSTATUS); i = getprognamelen(buf, sz); if (i != -1) printf("getprogname -> '%.*s' [%d]\n", i, buf, i); else printf("getprogname failed\n"); return 0; } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Aug 19 16:51:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ntown.esper.com (ntown.esper.com [216.111.16.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8954937B403; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kcross@ntown.com) Received: from kjcwin2k (kcross.ntown.esper.com [216.111.19.212]) by ntown.esper.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f7JNwGE07956; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:58:16 -0400 Message-ID: <015801c12909$cff97080$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> From: "Ken Cross" To: , Subject: DENY ACL's Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:51:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi: The current Posix.1e ACL implementation in -current works great as far as it goes. I'm sure this has been kicked around before (although I couldn't find anything in the archives), but it seems like adding "deny" ACL's would be a useful and fairly straightforward extension. For those not familiar with it, deny ACL's are ACL's that explicitly deny access, e.g., group Accountants are allowed access, but user George is denied access even though he is a member of Accountants. They are used extensively in the Windows NT/2K world and I need to support them on a BSD platform. The implementation is pretty straightforward -- always check deny ACL's first and then access ACL's. They'd just be a new acl_type_t value (ACL_TYPE_DENY?). I'd be happy to help with the implementation (especially since I'll be doing it regardless). Any interest or things I should know about? Ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Aug 19 20: 9:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCEA37B407 for ; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:09:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.5/8.11.5) with SMTP id f7K39aP35888; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:09:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:09:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Josef Karthauser Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: parsing problem with /proc/N/status In-Reply-To: <20010817102549.A712@tao.org.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I guess my feeling is that fundamentally, this type of process data is "typed" as a nul-terminated string. procfs fails to export all types safely (i.e., unambiguously), including nul-terminated strings. I suppose really, the kernel should export in ASN.1... (run away) Actually, the right answer is probably simply to use sysctl to get this type of process information, since the results actually do have types respected by the medium. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Josef Karthauser wrote: > I've raised PR29682 about a problem parsing /proc/N/status (procfs) in > -current. The problem occurs when process names contain spaces, like > all of the 'irqN: xxx' ones do. Is there a procfs guru here that would > mind taking a look for me? > > Many thanks, > Joe > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Aug 19 23:24:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from www.svzserv.kemerovo.su (www.svzserv.kemerovo.su [213.184.65.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4567737B40B; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eugen@svzserv.kemerovo.su) Received: from svzserv.kemerovo.su (kost [213.184.65.82]) by www.svzserv.kemerovo.su (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA68255; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:24:41 +0800 (KRAST) (envelope-from eugen@svzserv.kemerovo.su) Message-ID: <3B80AD24.B4261C2D@svzserv.kemerovo.su> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:24:36 +0800 From: Eugene Grosbein Organization: SVZServ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: ru,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fs@freebsd.org Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Maximum file size in STABLE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! What is limit of size of file (using ffs) in STABLE now? FAQ's Table 2-2. "Maximum file sizes" seems very outdated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 4:22:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E454637B40C; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 04:22:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilmar@watson.org) Received: from localhost (ilmar@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.5/8.11.5) with SMTP id f7KBM1539549; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:22:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ilmar@watson.org) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:22:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" To: Ken Cross Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-securit@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DENY ACL's In-Reply-To: <015801c12909$cff97080$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > For those not familiar with it, deny ACL's are ACL's that explicitly deny > access, e.g., group Accountants are allowed access, but user George is > denied access even though he is a member of Accountants. Would something like "setfacl -m g:group1:rw,u:user1: file", where user1 is the member of group group1 satisfy you? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 4:44:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ntown.esper.com (ntown.esper.com [216.111.16.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B1537B408; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 04:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kcross@ntown.com) Received: from kjcwin2k (kcross.ntown.esper.com [216.111.19.212]) by ntown.esper.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f7KBpME02156; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:51:22 -0400 Message-ID: <028401c1296d$6b01f8f0$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> From: "Ken Cross" To: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" Cc: , References: Subject: Re: DENY ACL's Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:44:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The particular case you show would work, but others won't. For example, suppose the user is a member of GroupA which is allowed access and also a member of GroupB which is denied access, e.g. "setfacl -m g:GroupA:rwx,g:GroupB: file". (There's no user-specific ACL.) All "deny" ACL's must be checked first, so the user should be denied. Under the current scheme, I think the "best match" would allow access. Good thought, though. Thanks. Ken > > > > For those not familiar with it, deny ACL's are ACL's that explicitly deny > > access, e.g., group Accountants are allowed access, but user George is > > denied access even though he is a member of Accountants. > > Would something like "setfacl -m g:group1:rw,u:user1: file", where user1 > is the member of group group1 satisfy you? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 6:40: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF3937B418; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ilmar@watson.org) Received: from localhost (ilmar@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.5/8.11.5) with SMTP id f7KDd4P40772; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:39:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ilmar@watson.org) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" To: Ken Cross Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DENY ACL's In-Reply-To: <028401c1296d$6b01f8f0$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Ken Cross wrote: > The particular case you show would work, but others won't. I think that the example given below is the result of badly formed security policy. > For example, suppose the user is a member of GroupA which is allowed access > and also a member of GroupB which is denied access, e.g. "setfacl -m > g:GroupA:rwx,g:GroupB: file". (There's no user-specific ACL.) > All "deny" ACL's must be checked first, so the user should be denied. Under > the current scheme, I think the "best match" would allow access. Yes, user will have access to file, but why shouldn't he have it? > Good thought, though. Thanks. You are welcome. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 7:12:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ntown.esper.com (ntown.esper.com [216.111.16.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE7E37B40A; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kcross@ntown.com) Received: from kjcwin2k (kcross.ntown.esper.com [216.111.19.212]) by ntown.esper.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f7KEK7E19166; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:20:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c12982$321d68c0$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> From: "Ken Cross" To: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" Cc: , References: Subject: Re: DENY ACL's Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:12:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > The particular case you show would work, but others won't. > > I think that the example given below is the result of badly formed > security policy. Not really. There are real cases in large organizations where that configuration is perfectly legitimate. OTOH, it is often the result of "quick-fix" solutions. But that's the real world... > > > For example, suppose the user is a member of GroupA which is allowed access > > and also a member of GroupB which is denied access, e.g. "setfacl -m > > g:GroupA:rwx,g:GroupB: file". (There's no user-specific ACL.) > > All "deny" ACL's must be checked first, so the user should be denied. Under > > the current scheme, I think the "best match" would allow access. > > Yes, user will have access to file, but why shouldn't he have it? For whatever reason, the administrators decided to explicitly deny access to GroupB. By definition, that *must* be honored first. I don't make the rules, but I gotta live by them. ;-) Ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 7:39:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from topperwein.dyndns.org (acs-24-154-28-172.zoominternet.net [24.154.28.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036DD37B401; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from behanna@zbzoom.net) Received: from topperwein.dyndns.org (topperwein.dyndns.org [192.168.168.10]) by topperwein.dyndns.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KEdpv09679; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:39:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from behanna@zbzoom.net) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris BeHanna Reply-To: Chris BeHanna To: Cc: Subject: Re: DENY ACL's In-Reply-To: <000f01c12982$321d68c0$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Ken Cross wrote: > > > The particular case you show would work, but others won't. > > > > I think that the example given below is the result of badly formed > > security policy. > > Not really. There are real cases in large organizations where that > configuration is perfectly legitimate. OTOH, it is often the result of > "quick-fix" solutions. But that's the real world... > > > > > > For example, suppose the user is a member of GroupA which is allowed > access > > > and also a member of GroupB which is denied access, e.g. "setfacl -m > > > g:GroupA:rwx,g:GroupB: file". (There's no user-specific ACL.) > > > All "deny" ACL's must be checked first, so the user should be denied. > Under > > > the current scheme, I think the "best match" would allow access. > > > > Yes, user will have access to file, but why shouldn't he have it? > > For whatever reason, the administrators decided to explicitly deny access to > GroupB. By definition, that *must* be honored first. I don't make the > rules, but I gotta live by them. ;-) Perhaps I misremember, but weren't there access control systems that use "first match" syntax? That would (partly) solve this problem: GroupB: GroupA:rwx Here, GroupB would match first, and the user would be denied; however, another rule can be added: UserA:rwx GroupB: GroupA:rwx and all is well with the world. -- Chris BeHanna Software Engineer (Remove "bogus" before responding.) behanna@bogus.zbzoom.net I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 8: 1:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ntown.esper.com (ntown.esper.com [216.111.16.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F9F37B405; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:01:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kcross@ntown.com) Received: from kjcwin2k (kcross.ntown.esper.com [216.111.19.212]) by ntown.esper.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f7KF8dE28115; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:08:39 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c12988$f99cabd0$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> From: "Ken Cross" To: "Chris BeHanna" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: DENY ACL's Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:01:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As currently implemented, the FreeBSD ACL checks use a "best match" algorithm. It checks *all* group ACLs for one that matches the requested permissions. If found (as it would in the case below), access is allowed. That's why I need a "deny" ACL. Ken > Perhaps I misremember, but weren't there access control systems > that use "first match" syntax? That would (partly) solve this > problem: > > GroupB: > GroupA:rwx > > Here, GroupB would match first, and the user would be denied; however, > another rule can be added: > > UserA:rwx > GroupB: > GroupA:rwx > > and all is well with the world. > > -- > Chris BeHanna To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 10: 8:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC6237B41B for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeff@expertcity.com) Received: from expertcity.com ([65.5.156.51]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010820170805.LDZX21782.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@expertcity.com> for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:08:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3B8143F6.4030908@expertcity.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:08:06 -0700 From: Jeff Behl User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: syncer delay? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org howdy, We have a very time sensitive application that we think is being affected by the kernel syncer process. While doing a poll call, every 30 seconds we will have iterations that take 300+ ms longer than on average. This only started happening after our app started needing to log data to disk, and the delays are longer when there are more connections (more to write/log). I turned on IDE write caching (hw.ata.wc) but this has had no noticeable effect. What else can we do to try and minimize this hiccup every 30 seconds? Is adjusting the time between sync's a worthwhile approach (using sysctl)? We're using 4.3-RELEASE. thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Aug 20 13:22:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-7.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF2737B416 for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 56A0066BA6; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:22:18 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jeff Behl Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syncer delay? Message-ID: <20010820132218.B3802@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3B8143F6.4030908@expertcity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B8143F6.4030908@expertcity.com>; from jeff@expertcity.com on Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:08:06AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:08:06AM -0700, Jeff Behl wrote: > howdy, > We have a very time sensitive application that we think is being > affected by the kernel syncer process. While doing a poll call, every > 30 seconds we will have iterations that take 300+ ms longer than on average. This > only started happening after our app started needing to log data to > disk, and the delays are longer when there are more connections (more to > write/log). Don't do that? The syncer needs to do work to flush stuff to disk, you may be able to reduce that impact but it's still going to be taking runtime away from your application. Kris --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7gXF5Wry0BWjoQKURAqlcAKDJOnPEoUMzjQlP6BtXo/qFO+cksgCg11IL fMNLUnVX8nFGggFvU+3O6WA= =9AkV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Aug 21 2:57: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ntown.esper.com (ntown.esper.com [216.111.16.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72437B40C for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kcross@ntown.com) Received: from kjcwin2k (kcross.ntown.esper.com [216.111.19.212]) by ntown.esper.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f7LA4PE14917; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:04:25 -0400 Message-ID: <00ad01c12a27$9e92b370$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> From: "Ken Cross" To: "Ian J Greely" Cc: References: <017001c1290a$14962300$0200a8c0@kjc2.com> Subject: Re: DENY ACL's Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:56:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I just finished a course on Win32 API where we had a look at the > structures behind the Win ACL's. (Yeah, well company I work for is > into Windows) > > The ACL strucure is parsed _IN ORDER_ and the FIRST ACL (allow or > deny) that the user matches is applied. You can be bounced or allowed > on a single entry. (Dependant upon the rights requested.) The ORDER of > entries is significant. > > I can send the detail if people want. *shrug* Or you could look in a > book! > > regards, > Ian You're quite right -- that's exactly how they are processed. However, NTFS absolutely enforces the ordering of ACL's such that deny ACL's always come before allow ACL's. Hence, deny ACL's are always processed first. Hey, don't be embarrassed about learning Windows stuff -- it'd be a bigger mistake to pretend it's not there. And it always looks good on the resume. ;-) Ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Aug 21 6:31:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F1637B403 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.137.2.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.137.2]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29609; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8262E8.B6F13E03@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:32:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Behl Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syncer delay? References: <3B8143F6.4030908@expertcity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeff Behl wrote: > > howdy, > We have a very time sensitive application that we think is being > affected by the kernel syncer process. While doing a poll call, every > 30 seconds we will have iterations that take 300+ ms longer than on average. This > only started happening after our app started needing to log data to > disk, and the delays are longer when there are more connections (more to > write/log). > I turned on IDE write caching (hw.ata.wc) but this has had no noticeable > effect. What else can we do to try and minimize this hiccup every 30 > seconds? Is adjusting the time between sync's a worthwhile approach > (using sysctl)? We're using 4.3-RELEASE. You don't say how the logging is taking place Adjusting the time will generally not help you any. Probably you are seeing it stall because your writes are conflicting with other writes, or more likely, reads (e.g. as a result of paging in -- makes you want the sticky bit working like in "the good old days"). You can check this by mounting the disk async; if there is no improvement, then it's not just a metadata stall, and you're stuck. If that's the case, then you might want to try using a SCSI disk, instead, since it can have multiple outstanding commands, and will satisfy them asynchronously. Another alternative would be to log in a seperate process (e.g. use syslog for what it was designed to do), which is generally more efficient anyway (better concurrency). If the problem is just the fact that your latency isn't being spread out more equally, and you are doing the writes in your program, you have a few options: first, you can explicitly fsync() your log file, which will make the list of buffers needing to be sync'ed much shorter; second, you could log over the net to a different system, which is dedicated to doing logging, and nothing else. My personal bet is on it being a disk stall, since I've seen the same issue with local disk logging with ATA disks in a lab environment -- even IBM ATA disks, which claim to support tagged command queueing. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 0:34:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B19D37B40B for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.135.228.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.135.228]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f7M7YQh15885; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8360AC.559D205D@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:35:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Behl Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syncer delay? References: <0307F3737A2AD511A42200D0B7A071919A409C@dopey.corp.expertcity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeff Behl wrote: > > thanks for info. just to clarify a few things... > > Its 'logging' is actually writing binary data to a file, of which there is > one file per session/open socket. The number of sessions isn't that large, > averaging around 20, and the machine is dedicated to this app only. The > only reads should be from the network. This help narrow down the issue? Yes; you have 20 contenders fighting for your serialized access to your IDE drive. If you don't need the data committed to stable storage for some reason that you aren't stating, then you would probably be much better off caching it, and going to a sparse map on page or FS block boundaries so that the FS doesn't have to do the extra read-before-write to handle the writes. > We'll see if an explicit fsync() helps; thanks. It probably won't help as much as choosing your data carefully. Also, if you hhave a big stable storage requirement, you might want to consider writing your state information/log to a raw disk device on 512b boundaries to make things a lot easier on your I/O overhead. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 0:39:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD1037B401; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@tao.org.uk) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id D9AF4380; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:39:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:39:21 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: parsing problem with /proc/N/status Message-ID: <20010822083921.A1147@tao.org.uk> References: <20010817102549.A712@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:09:35PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:09:35PM -0400, Robert Watson wrote: >=20 > I guess my feeling is that fundamentally, this type of process data is > "typed" as a nul-terminated string. procfs fails to export all types > safely (i.e., unambiguously), including nul-terminated strings. I suppose > really, the kernel should export in ASN.1... (run away)=20 >=20 > Actually, the right answer is probably simply to use sysctl to get this > type of process information, since the results actually do have types > respected by the medium.=20 Accepted, but we do support procfs/status as a method too otherwise we wouldn't implement it. The procfs manual page says: status The process status. This file is read-only and returns a sing= le line containing multiple space-separated fields as follows: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ o command name o process id o parent process id o process group id o session id o major,minor of the controlling terminal, or -1,-1 if there= is no controlling terminal. o a list of process flags: ctty if there is a controlling te= r- minal, sldr if the process is a session leader, noflags if neither of the other two flags are set. o the process start time in seconds and microseconds, comma separated. o the user time in seconds and microseconds, comma separated. o the system time in seconds and microseconds, comma separat= ed. o the wait channel message o the process credentials consisting of the effective user id and the list of groups (whose first member is the effective group id) all comma separated. This suggests that whatever we do in addition the minimum is to ensure that 'command name' doesn't contain spaces. If we're not going to replace them with underscores, for example, what are we going to replace them with? Joe --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjuDYakACgkQXVIcjOaxUBaqbwCeN2RUBz5LZe+JWl/H2YR2V4pO g2IAoLbWKFLj60bxtGt6Ka6NmEBvj6Mr =CVwI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 7: 8:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0585037B40D for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from JTate63068@aol.com) Received: from JTate63068@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id n.68.132207b2 (4256) for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: JTate63068@aol.com Message-ID: <68.132207b2.28b516e2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:08:34 EDT Subject: Please reply! To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_68.132207b2.28b516e2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --part1_68.132207b2.28b516e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please send me any and all information that you have available concerning asset protection and trusts that will prevent civil lawsuits from obtaining my assets. I have clicked on your link from your website but it says that the site is not available or is not responding. Thank you, JT --part1_68.132207b2.28b516e2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please send me any and all information that you have available concerning
asset protection and trusts that will prevent civil lawsuits from obtaining
my assets. I have clicked on your link from your website but it says that the
site is not available or is not responding.

Thank you,

JT --part1_68.132207b2.28b516e2_boundary-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 7:44:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89B737B418 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@tao.org.uk) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 71480521; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:44:13 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:44:13 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please reply! Message-ID: <20010822154413.B7040@tao.org.uk> References: <68.132207b2.28b516e2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <68.132207b2.28b516e2@aol.com>; from JTate63068@aol.com on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:08:34AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:08:34AM -0400, JTate63068@aol.com wrote: > Please send me any and all information that you have available concerning= =20 > asset protection and trusts that will prevent civil lawsuits from obtaini= ng=20 > my assets. I have clicked on your link from your website but it says that= the=20 > site is not available or is not responding.=20 >=20 > Thank you,=20 Wierd. Just plain wierd!!! Joe --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjuDxTwACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbauwCgoY2mCtmLa81V0UNnd4516iV3 VqIAnRVgKSjKHhsbUMSFWVaiOKYWKh0P =gG/s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 8:13:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bilver.wjv.com (dhcp-1-249.n01.orldfl01.us.ra.verio.net [157.238.210.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27F937B412 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bill@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bill@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.11.5/8.11.1) id f7MFDbf78929; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:13:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bill) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:13:37 -0400 From: Bill Vermillion To: Josef Karthauser Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please reply! Message-ID: <20010822111337.A74068@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References: <68.132207b2.28b516e2@aol.com> <20010822154413.B7040@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010822154413.B7040@tao.org.uk>; from joe@tao.org.uk on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 03:44:13PM +0100 Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 03:44:13PM +0100, Josef Karthauser thus sprach: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:08:34AM -0400, JTate63068@aol.com wrote: > > Please send me any and all information that you have available concerning > > asset protection and trusts that will prevent civil lawsuits from obtaining > > my assets. I have clicked on your link from your website but it says that the > > site is not available or is not responding. > > Thank you, > Wierd. Just plain wierd!!! No. Just someone gathering valid email address. Might even send some cookies your way. It's a nasty world out there. If you reply you'll probably get your address sold and your mailbox will be forever full Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 22 10: 7: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from directcommunications.net (mailgate.bridgetrading.com [62.49.201.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F90637B414; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ringtones@mobiledirect.uk.com) Received: from localhost (mail@localhost) by directcommunications.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7MGqQ332067; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:52:26 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: hercules.bti.com: mail owned process doing -bs Received: by hercules.bti.com (bulk_mailer v1.13); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:44:45 +0100 Received: from mobiledirect.uk.com (aries.bti.com [10.54.1.1]) by directcommunications.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7MGiiU01504 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:44:44 +0100 Message-ID: <3B83E168.2090106@mobiledirect.uk.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:44:24 +0100 From: Mobile Ringtones User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3+) Gecko/20010817 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ringtones@mobiledirect.uk.com Subject: Ringtones and Logos Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------050200090204050702040306" Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------050200090204050702040306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit newlogo




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